lit/21915512.txt

-----
--- 21915512
I'm starting to feel that Nick Land isn't quite doing for me anymore. He was cutting edge and obscure in the 90s, but now he's starting to feel banal. 

Do we have a 2023 equivalent for what Land represented for the Fanged Noumena era (90s)?
--- 21915576
>>21915512 (OP)
According to some posters on here, Chris Langan
--- 21915797
>>21915512 (OP)
F Gardner
--- 21915803
>>21915512 (OP)
I don't know what you are talking about. Fanged Noumena is more relevant now than ever.
--- 21915829
>>21915576
Not necessarily a bad pick, but he's been old news for even longer than Land at this point, has he come up with anything recently that isn't a rehash of something he hasn't already thought/said 20-30 years ago?
--- 21915856
>>21915803
FN has been aging like a fine wine, but I still want a 2023 equivalent for it. For example, I think Reza Negarestani had a lot of potential 15 years ago with his Cyclonopedia, but he's since abandoned such projects. I was just hoping there is some other figure similar to those I haven't heard about yet.
--- 21915905
>>21915512 (OP)
the rest of the right still hasn't accepted that western civilization is evil because it's inherently progressive, destroying it is a good thing, and the only way it'll be destroyed is by its own acceleration. he's still relevant.
--- 21915918
>>21915905
t. never actually read Land and only knows about him through /lit/ memes and Twitter
--- 21915920
chatGPT
--- 21915923
>>21915829
I mean I write polemical philosophy too, I'm not PhD certified which will cause many people here to sneed at. closest I ever got was having a back and forth with Reza Negasterani or however you spell his name.
--- 21915926
>>21915918
i've read every single one of his tweets
--- 21917410
>>21915803
>Fanged Noumena is more relevant now than ever.
Still not as relevant as Das Kapital.
--- 21917414
>>21915512 (OP)
im surprised he ever did it for you
--- 21917448
I've heard he's basically nonsense and pseuds did suggest reading him
--- 21917462
>>21915926
What's the best one?
--- 21917469
>>21917462
--- 21917477
>>21915512 (OP)
>I'm starting to feel that Nick Land isn't quite doing for me anymore.
You need to move on to the hard stuff, kid...
--- 21917493
Hegel and Kojeve 

Land never read Kojeve, was dismissive of Hegel, started directly with Bataille like a chump in order to be edgy. Kojeve is way more edgy than Bataille ever was.
--- 21917518
AI acceleration
--- 21917746
>>21915512 (OP)
>Do we have a 2023 equivalent for what Land represented for the Fanged Noumena era (90s)?
Yes, and people in the correct circles agree. It is a surprising coherence and agreement across graduate schools in several Ivy Leagues, ENS and the interesting parts of the departments at Oxbridge. Such agreement across these milieus is rare, but in a way, it is necessitated by the gravity of the historical moment.
Unfortunately, this work is too important and interesting as of right now to be sullied by the noise of a bunch of twitter-philosophy turbo-rejects, so I am not sharing it with any of you, and neither are my peers - we literally had the discussion as to how public this work and discussion should go, and there are profoundly compelling reasons to say as little as possible. Keep reading Land and Bataille though, they have some really interesting and deep thoughts about how like, evolution is sort of Lovecraftian and how toenails are pretty gnarly, very interesting stuff you can share on twitter with other people with anime/greek statue/golden age romantic painting profile pics
--- 21917751
>>21917746
Good call.
--- 21917791
>>21917746
>I don't believe the internet is an appropriate medium for serious philosophical debate; nor do I believe it is acceptable to try to concoct a philosophical movement online by using blogs to exploit the misguided enthusiasm of impressionable graduate students. I agree with Deleuze's remark that ultimately the most basic task of philosophy is to impede stupidity, so I see little philosophical merit in a "movement" whose most signal achievement thus far is to have generated an online orgy of stupidity.
This was originally directed towards "speculative realism", but that's just one of the many parts of what you could correctly call twitterphilosophy - Land is another part of twitterphilosophy, as is Fisher and pretty much the entire scene surrounding Verso books on the left, and the Evola/Guenon (of all fucking people) revival on the right. It's all twitterphilosophy and completely inconsequential, and while I appreciate the rationale behind divorcing the avant-garde even harder from twitterphilosophy by doing what you're doing, I don't actually think twitterphilosophy is capable of sullying anything, as it is completely inert outside of the virtual.
--- 21917818
>>21915803
the technological and literary referenced aged as poorly as GEB's, but more cringy because there's more emotional investment on display in being at the `cutting edge' of some social sphere in the FN material than anything stateside. 

 but at least there's actually observations and thought underlying Hofstadter's work that one can recognize through the aesthetic posturing lol. If you think that shit has aged 'well' its because you're the equivalent of zoomers who worship cultural milestones like Friends and The Office lol. So embarrassing. 

>>21915512 (OP)
yeat
--- 21917864
>>21917746
You people are as irrelevant as the shitterphilosophers you hate, and you sense this which is why you’re so bitter towards random spergs shitposting online. Even if this isn’t bait, mass agreement across these groups is essentially a sign that whatever work you’re talking about is guaranteed to be stillborn. Mark my words, nobody will remember you.
--- 21917948
>>21917864
I was about to disagree with you but upon reading this pretentious fuckwit I can't help but agree. Imagine having an ideology so brittle it can't even withstand the shitposting of 4chan and has to be read by scribes. This guy isn't getting anywhere, even if the average user on 4 is never smart except in aggregate
--- 21919221
bump
--- 21919259
>>21917746
decent bait
--- 21919445
Its 2023 and I will write my Master thesis in a top 10 world ranking philosophy faculty about his Trakl essays and there is nothing boomers or twitter edgelords can do to change my mind.
--- 21919746
"Cyber" culture is dead with the professionalization of the internet. He was right that technologies horizontalize and so become public utilities, but this also means submitting to the masses in a democratic reversal. Same phenomena with public companies.
Nick's current pipedream is that the new internet is more exclusive, but profit margins always lower quality.
--- 21919858
>>21917462
--- 21919867
>>21915512 (OP)
Laruelle
--- 21920336
>>21919867
decent answer
--- 21920347
>in the 90's
He was a nobody in the 90's and became a meme nearly 2 decades later.
--- 21920442
>>21920347
exactly. this is why I care about finding that obscure and currently irrelevant figure of our current year that has a great chance of being recognized by the future. Basically, I'm trying to predict who are we going to look back from 2050 and say: this [insert name/title/etc] written in the 2023 was way ahead of its time.
--- 21920856
byun-chal ho
byun-chun hye
byan-chan hyeo
byuan-hun chan
byuon-han chan
byung-chun han
byung-chul han
this guy
yeah
--- 21920861
>>21915803
>is more relevant now than ever.
so banal
--- 21920862
stiegler, of the bernard veriety
--- 21920867
>>21917864
oof
--- 21921208
>>21920856
I remember Q made a video about him but I didn't understand it
--- 21921227
>>21921208
i read psychopolitics today
its good
less schizo than land
more cohesive, and good
only 70 pages, and seemingly up your alley of current<>philosophical<>groundbreaking<>sociological work
--- 21921655
Charlotte Fang
--- 21921721
>>21921655
shut the fuck up

just a larper and aesthete
--- 21922239
>>21917746
Retroactively unread
--- 21922258
>>21915512 (OP)
>think that AI is inevitably going to consume the world in a terrifying cosmic horror scenario... and that's a good thing!
>moves to China and starts a family
What did he mean by this?
--- 21922975
>>21915512 (OP)
I am starting to feel Nick Land.
He is cutting under my obscurely banal 90s blade.
He feels it.
My penis feels his flesh peel from the bone.
He enjoys it.
He publishes a conference paper on how a sharpened penis critiques his ontology.
The penis is a knife.
I feed you Korean Style Grilled Land.
--- 21923344
>>21915512 (OP)
ulysses carriere
--- 21923356
>>21917746
Based
--- 21923442
>>21919867
literally who
--- 21923463
>>21917746
let me guess Reza Negarestani
--- 21923475
>>21923344

Jesus Christ, you can't be serious. I have to bleach my eyes after reading those "worst take imaginable" tweets.
--- 21923633
>>21923463
Literally the definition of twitterphilosophy. I, no shit, was introduced to Negarestani by a guy with an anime profile pic on twitter, in a thread about Nick Land and Rick and Morty. The platonic ideal of twitterphilosophy.
--- 21923634
>>21915512 (OP)
Robert Kurz, but his texts and essays almost unknown in the anglosphere
--- 21923640
>>21917746
Damn good bait, dynamic too - it unfolds after it has been taken, and reveals that the takers see the value of philosophy as a function of what social clique it belongs to, and not pursuit of truth or curiosity, which, hilariously, is exactly the mark of twitterphilosophy. You really do know your enemy, 10/10.
--- 21923661
>>21920856
nice poem
--- 21923679
>>21921721
>just a larper and aesthete
just what OP asked for then
--- 21923859
how did he go from being a marxist in the 90s to afterwards becoming an extreme capitalist?
--- 21923864
>>21923859
He's the first person in history to arrive at the logical conclusion of Marxism
--- 21923885
>>21923864

The logical conclusion of Marxism is the abolishment of private property and the socialization of the relations to the means of production i.e. Communism.

Anyone who doesn't believe in Communism is not Marxist, but a revionist or oportunist. Btw idiot and traitor Land could not predict AI and internet would destroy IP property rights.
--- 21923899
>>21923885
lol tranny
--- 21923913
>>21923885
The logical conclusion of Marx's conception of Capital is it unchaining itself from human labor and leaving humanity behind.
--- 21923922
>>21923899

Takes one to know one, most trannies are right wing porn adicts, take a brake from wacking your dick all day, ok? Please do it for your parents. 


>>21923913

Idiot, how will relations be social without human relations? Land doesn't understand time, his time is empty time. How can you have Capital without human labor time? Read Marx and not stupid memes, ok?
--- 21923926
>>21923640
>truth 
lol. Assmad dork with a roman/anime profile pic spotted.
--- 21923931
>>21915856
>For example, I think Reza Negarestani had a lot of potential 15 years ago with his Cyclonopedia, but he's since abandoned such projects
i was funny how Reza after writing all his nihilistic stuff proceeded to get really butthurt about Land being a boomer right winger on twitter, i guess nothing really matters, except racism
--- 21923932
>>21920442
Are you retarded?
--- 21923944
>>21919867
I've heard this too. I have two of his books
--- 21923947
>>21923931
I've actually spoke to Reza and he compared me to a neo-Husserl
--- 21923948
>>21917462
--- 21923952
>>21923922
>Read Marx
Read something written since the advent of electricity
--- 21923954
>>21917462
this one is pretty good too
--- 21923958
>>21917791
nice b&
--- 21923967
>>21922258
--- 21923972
>>21923344
he was fun before he trooned up, now he just posts trite drugged up shit after burning his brain on drugs and female hormones, his wife was qt though, not sure why he decided to troon, he doesn't even seem to get sexual enjoyment from it
--- 21923985
>>21923922
>Idiot, how will relations be social without human relations? Land doesn't understand time, his time is empty time. How can you have Capital without human labor time? Read Marx and not stupid memes, ok?
humans are just the kickstarter for AI, for Land AI and capitalism are exactly the same, just at some point humans become meaningless once the capitalist processes develop a silicon platform to self-propagate without human input, meanwhile humans are the platform in which it runs, but humans have not been in control for a while
--- 21923992
>>21923985
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Land would say humans have never been in control.
--- 21924030
>>21923992
>Nick Land: I think it comes down, again, just to these very, very basic cybernetic diagrams to do with positive feedback. And one sort of image — it’s an entirely satisfactory image once it’s accepted that it is figurative — is a critical nuclear reaction. You have a pile of radioactive rods that are damped down by graphite containment rods, and you start pulling out those graphite rods, and at a certain point it goes critical and you get an explosion. It’s just absolutely — it’s not a metaphor — it’s a positive feedback process [laughs]. It just is a positive feedback process that passes through some threshold and goes critical. And so I would say that’s the sense [in which] capitalism has always been there. It’s always been there as a pile with the potential to go critical, but it didn’t go critical until the Renaissance, until the dawn of modernity, when, for reasons that are interesting, enough graphite rods get pulled out and the thing becomes this self-sustaining, explosive process.
>So in a certain sense, a lot of the actual fabric, the social historical fabric, is actually a containment system. And I think that containment system had a failure mode in the Renaissance. Just to dip back into the hyper-ideological space for a minute, what the extreme kind of what I call “paleo-reactionaries” get right is that they they totally see that. I share nothing of their mournful affection for the medieval period, but I think they’re totally right to say that there was a catastrophic failure that unleashed this explosive process, and that is what modernity is from the perspective of the Ancien Régime. What any social system is for is to stop this nuclear pile going off. You look at Chinese civilization and you say, well, what is it really doing? What’s it for? From a certain perspective, it’s a capitalism containment structure that obviously worked better in this traditionalist sense than the European one. The European one was too fractured, it was subject to a whole bunch of wild, uncontrollable influences, and unprecedented feedback structures kicked off that no one was in a position to master in Europe.
>And so we get capitalism and modernity in Europe, and capitalism and modernity is brought to China by Western gunboats. It’s not like they’re bringing a gift, what they’re bringing is … they’re coming to pull the [laughs] graphite containment roads out, you know, from outside. That’s what that process of Chinese modernization is. It’s a process of the indigenous Chinese process of containment being dismantled from outside until it then — obviously in a way that is no less spectacular than the one we’ve seen in the West — goes into this self-sustaining modernist eruption basically in the early 1980s.

>https://vastabrupt.com/2018/08/15/ideology-intelligence-and-capital-nick-land/
--- 21924082
>>21915512 (OP)
If you want something cutting edge you should get into my work. I've never written anything so my thoughts are the most obscure. 
>What's anon thinking about?
Who knows!
--- 21924097
>>21924030
You're right, the word "control" has a sophisticated meaning. Humans can "control" by inhibiting positive feedback loops, but it would be inaccurate to say they "command" the process, which is what I think most people unfamiliar with accelerationism would envision when you say things like "capital is out of human control" and what I was intending to correct.
--- 21924101
Wodehouse
--- 21924116
>>21924097
i guess you could say it was in control of human structures that could be if not controlled at least somehow comprehended or rationalized by humans, but at some scale after the positive feedback kicks in the structures become too inhuman to ever be comprehended
--- 21924118
let's check in with Marxist scholars
--- 21924135
>>21924118
Zizek always impresses me with how far ahead of other Marxists he is.
--- 21924142
>>21924135
he is begging to be invited back into polite society, his supply of 19yo undergrad pussy has probably dried up by now and his wife is nearing the wall. he probably won't be invited back though unless he troons up or something
--- 21924149
>>21924118
>let's check in with Marxist scholars
i can't, because
>Become a member to continue reading this article.
do you just want people to be outraged at the headline without reading the essay? have you read it?
--- 21924150
>>21924118
Anyone got the full article? Shit's paywalled.
--- 21924160
>>21924149
>>21924150
he is been writing articles like that his whole career, it just repeats the liberal opinion of the day but tries to make it sound transgressive and radical, just choose any of this other articles
--- 21924202
>>21924160
so, just to be clear, you post articles you haven't read as outrage bait for other people who will also not read them? i just want to establish that you are in fact a subhuman fucking insect person and then we can move on
--- 21924238
>>21924202
cope and seethe, faggot, i don't need to read it to know what it says
--- 21924268
>>21924142
Since when has he been kicked out of polite society?
--- 21924350
>>21915512 (OP)
>>21915856
The Miya kaliacc stuff was exactly what you're describing from ca 2019~2021 but they sold out a long time ago into NFT shilling and pedo shit
--- 21924379
>>21924268
he was slowly cancelled after joking about wanting Trump to win, and after getting into a fight with a rich girl with red hair in an american university that likes to larp as a stalinist wearing clothes and everything, i'm not even joking, but forgot the video, he slowly stopped getting invited to The Guardian and publications like that, and became radioactive at some point

funny he didn't cancelled for this
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7in9EhIbREY [Embed]
--- 21924382
>>21924350
>but they sold out a long time ago into NFT shilling and pedo shit
it was all that it was from the beginning, that indian guy was good at social media, but it was all re-hashes of Nick Land and Harari
--- 21924594
>>21924238
Based dunning-Kruger retard
--- 21924622
>>21920442
there will be no one alive in 2050
--- 21924932
>>21923932
maybe, but what exactly makes you ask this?
--- 21925426
>>21919858
One of the greatest tweets ever
--- 21925433
It's still Mitchell Heisman
--- 21926190
>>21925433
This guy will probably explode in popularity in the neo-pagan chud circles but they’re about at the opposite pole from the Land people I would think. I don’t really know that side very well, NRX people make fun of “the longhouse” and fascist primitivism/anti-modernism right? Although I gotta say Heisman’s seething hatred of Jesus is kinda unnerving
--- 21926312
The world is a simulation of a simulation of a simulation. Nothing is real, everything is hyperreal. History has ended with the triumph of liberal democracy and capitalism, but this is not a happy ending. Boredom, alienation, and oppression make it a nightmare. Only through irony, humor, and art, can we create our own reality and escape this prison.
--- 21926471
>>21926190
>NRX people make fun of “the longhouse

makes sense because the longhouse analogy only makes sense when you´re living in a real matriarchy, not some forced bullshit that´s only supported by feminists
--- 21926555
>>21926312
I don't know if aesthetics and entertainment is really going to solve anything if you believe what you just wrote about Baudrillard.

This thread more generally. GEN X 90s cyber philosophy stuff is fucking shit. Fuck that go wear leather pants in some communications master's program with one shitty silver hoop earring you fucking clowns with wrap around shades
--- 21926566
>>21924135
He began a full Liberal leftist. Zizek washed out
--- 21926575
>>21924118
--- 21926768
I feel like there are no modern philosophers. It's so over
You would think with so many countless people alive today a few would stand out as thinkers of true merit, but the best can merely rehash much older thinkers at this point...
--- 21926858
>>21926768
There's a phrasing for this, but it goes something like this: An author spends their whole life experiencing things and having time to think and all that energy goes into their first few works. Afterwards, the amount of ideas they have to work off of dwindle and unless they're a very good one trick pony, they'll fade out.
History has played out similarly, all the greatest thinkers were from the past few 1000 years. Greatest writers, past few 100. Now there's nothing left to explore except the stars and AI simulated reality
--- 21926889
>>21926858
People aren’t smarter with all the technology. We’re just bathing in constant instantaneous gratification, media and other fun stuff. There’s literally no reason to ever be bored. Just a lot of last men who don’t really understand the technology around them. Though I will say there’s tremendous potential for the average person, it’s just that you have to overcome so much temptation. It can be very hard for me to not just waste a bunch of time playing my favorite video game.
--- 21926977
>>21917746
Based non-caster of pearls before swine.
--- 21926996
>aaaaaaaa I'm turning into a calculator I'm going insane
Too worldly. People who ontologize tech fads are tiresome.
--- 21927006
>>21915923
We weren't talking about you?
--- 21927757
>>21926190
>This guy will probably explode in popularity 

Nah, Mitchell Heisman is too hard to get in to. People take one look at his work and see 2000 pages of schizo ramblings so they think it's a big meme.
--- 21927803
>>21917746

Lol, ok snoboid, I guess i'll have to take your word for it. Enjoy the farts
--- 21928201
Ulrich Horstmann is as edgy as it gets.
--- 21928684
>>21928676
https://youtu.be/QT13kk8HDDo [Embed]
--- 21928693
he´s pretty tame (for schizophrenics standards) but insightful nonetheless
--- 21928696
>>21928693
--- 21928697
we may be getting soon a print edition of Xenosystems and maybe a new Land book
--- 21929429
>>21928697
/knigga/ incoming
--- 21930064
>>21928697
They should release a book of just those two guy's ongoing argument that spanned the comment section of all Nick's posts.
--- 21930146
his most interesting work was urban future
--- 21930309
>>21930146
1 or 2?
--- 21930526
>>21917746
we already know about guénon
--- 21930735
>>21928201
>Guys we should just all kill ourselves with nukes
Lol