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train · 591k rows

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnO6YqZ_qkQ	/r/videos/comments/rp3yfs/midget_boxing_match_commentary_is_almost_better/	[ "Yeah pretty sure midget isn’t the right word, dingus.", "I'm 30 seconds in and like this already", "It’s 2021 and I’m not sure if I’m allowed to say anything about this lol", "Guess you'll have to go cry yourself to sleep on your wife's boyfriend's couch.", "I mean you could make a little comment, you know something that might even go over some peoples heads.", "What's the right word then? Dwarf? Oompa loompa? Dingus?", "This is some tacky shit", "Wow, you’re cool dude", "It's a legit question, what do you call people with dwarfism if midget is too politically incorrect for you?", "That’s the best you got kiddo?", "Are you seriously this fucking stupid, or you just acting like it?" ]	11	videos	Midget boxing match - commentary is almost better than the fight itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0GuqEvzcI	/r/videos/comments/rp40my/watched_matrix_4_no_spoils_and_it_made_me/	[ "What did you think of 4?", "\ni walked out.", "Matrix 4 was just regurgitated vomit being poured over shiny turds. Shite!" ]	3	videos	Watched Matrix 4 (No Spoils), and it made me remember how amazing this scene in the OG Matrix actually was
https://vimeo.com/466169037	/r/videos/comments/rp4ooa/mechanical_masterpieces_famous_paintings/	[ "That's fun", "I love it", "That's really cool! Although it seems like a hassle to set up!", "Permanent install at a children's museum.", "Wow, I really love this! Pretty unique, as far as I'm aware.", "Awesome!\nI hope it is robust enough to withstand use - the ideas are really great!", "Like the tabs in pop-up books, but for masterpieces, hehe", "Wish they would have zoomed in a tad to see the detail.", "This looks like it belongs on a Monty Python CD from the 90's. Anybody remember those? They were cool.", "…from the what decade now?", "There were some Monty Python games in the 90's when everybody was turning anything and everything into a CD game.\n\nA Complete Waste Of Time [https://youtu.be/sBsSY\\_W\\_rSY](https://youtu.be/sBsSY_W_rSY)\n\nQuest for the Holy Grail [https://youtu.be/AwAM59\\_pYZ0](https://youtu.be/AwAM59_pYZ0)\n\nThe Meaning Of Life https://youtu.be/VZ-p3UHa54Q" ]	11	videos	Mechanical Masterpieces - famous paintings re-imagined for the 21st century
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rp5m16/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rp5m16/deleted_by_user/	[ "If you haven't seen Planes, Trains and Automobiles you owe it to yourself to watch the entire movie instead of just this clip which is the ending. It's an incredible comedy and an amazing movie.", "I completely agree. This is a truly wonderful film. Please watch all of it, if you can.", "Definitely. It makes the ending so much more impactful and having the context of the entire movie elevates it above being a simple comedy.", "Hearing John Candy deliver the line\n\n\"I like... I like me! My wife likes me!\"....\n\n\nFucking kills me every time" ]	4	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77tZkgnh-8U&ab_channel=Community	/r/videos/comments/rp5ydt/remedial_chaos_theory/	[ "I suck at titles. This episode is like a choose your own adventure book and its great", "hey! it's that episode the Troy pizza meme came from.\n\nwhy is there a countdown at the end?", "...it's also the movie coherence.", "Is the movie worth watching?" ]	4	videos	Remedial Chaos Theory
https://youtu.be/wHN7vJW8t5o	/r/videos/comments/rp6mnk/9_yr_old_video_from_carol_baskins_bigcatrescue/	[ "Nobody in that whole series came off like a decent human being.", "This is just showing them mirrors, they aren’t that stressed.\n\nHaving said that, no one was claiming Baskin wasn’t off her head. The amusement came from how she was no better than any of them.", "Damn near everyone in that show is a disgusting human being and deserves to be in prison. Carol Baskin seems to be the least exploitative of the bunch and has at least helped to get some laws passed to help the cats.", "I'm not saying any of them were, but that show was so obviously not what was actually going on. This stressing out animals is a perfect example of that", "Eh...it’s not the best thing when it comes it big cats, maybe.\nBut showing animals mirrors is a form of enrichment used in many species. It creates curiosity and investigating a mirror can be highly beneficial to an animals mental health.\n\nFor some most primates, having access to a mirror is actually a rule in many settings.", "How is that an example of the show being inaccurate? The show didn’t make Baskin or Big Cat Rescue look good at all. \nWhat’s inaccurate about that?", "that bitch", "It's too bad we didn't have this video when she did the ama a couple weeks ago.", "Does it come as a surprise to anyone that Carol Baskin is also nothing but a mean cold hearted bitch?", "I dunno, perhaps people learn lessons over time and they dont do this now. Although OPs claim comes across as a bit exaggerated imo.", "She recently did an AmA and people were fawning all over her for being somewhat better than Joe...or acting like she was some kinda messiah for the cats..", "Holy shit the animals looked in a mirror. How will we live knowing such horrible things have happened. I don't know how I will be able to go on living a normal life after seeing this.", "/u/huggerme, buy guns and shoot the workers in the head. Problem solved. Right?", "This comment couldn't be anymore wrong and you couldn't be anymore delusional. The world knows just how batshit insane everyone involved with those animals was. Everyone knows those animals were if you spent any amount of time watching the documentary", "I heard that after this, one of the tigers saw its reflection in a puddle and hasn't been the same since", "That’s the thing, everyone in that series is a piece of shit. Editing will make it seem like one is better than the other, but they are all absolutely greedy shit box humans." ]	17	videos	9 Yr. old video from Carol Baskin’s BigCatRescue shows workers intentionally scaring the animals for fun and views. (In the Tiger King series BigCatRescue ridiculed stressing out the animals)
https://youtu.be/JcJ8me22NVs	/r/videos/comments/rp6qp2/inside_the_congo_cobalt_mines_that_exploit/	[ "It's modern day because the device you used to post it required them to mine the cobalt. Modern day slavery is the wrong term. Really it should be globally reinforced slavery! Much more globalist.", "fuck", "wait until you find out the health and socio-economic problems from fossil fuel extraction and use.", "no, but cobalt is in more than just EV vehicles.", "We live in such a broken world. Where is the international outrage? Why don't people react to these child slaves in the same way they did when those Thai children got trapped in a cave? \n\nIf anyone knows of any resources online to learn more and potentially stop this abhorrent exploitation, please share it here.", "Leopold is cackling in hell.", "It depends on how the raw materials used to make the batteries were acquired. EVs using cobalt from this source obviously aren’t - but not all EVs come from cobalt mined here, and cobalt isn’t even required in the first place for some battery types.", "Wouldn't most of them agree that this is part of the sort of rapacious capitalism they already aren't fond of?", "https://www.marxists.org/audiobooks/archive/marx-engels/communist-manifesto/index.htm", "There are more sources of cobalt than from mines that use child labor. A lot of the cobalt that is used in cell phones, laptops and EVs come from members of [The Fair Cobalt Alliance](https://www.faircobaltalliance.org/) which drives it's members to use suppliers to use ethically mined minerals.", "Because they’re too dark to care about.", "No obviously the answer is that people in the US should make $1 a day too!\n\nWhy raise anyone up when we can just drag everyone else down!", "Your email box is now full.", "Because we live in a society where \"Britney Spears conservatorship\" is more newsworthy and important", "How will we shit on Elon today", "surely elon musk is not using any of this Cobalt!!!", "Yes, these mines are mostly endorsed and masked by Communist Chinese companies. Communism is definitely making the problem work, but how do we fix it?", "\"There are slaves in the Congo so people in the U.S. don't deserve a livable wage to afford education and housing. \n\nThe fuck you on about?", "Many EVs are going cobalt free in their batteries now.", "I mean... No. Tesla is already building batteries without Cobalt, and is phasing out the rest.\n\nIt's become cheaper to make LFP which doesn't use Cobalt.", "Lol. That's just more green-washing. Look at the mines the FCA works with and you'll see they're not much different.\n\nMaybe no young kids, but toxicity, dangerous conditions and lack of liability are still abound.", "The truth is both, \"out of sight, out of mind\" and, \"they don't look like me, so their struggles aren't important to me\".\n\nThey're babies. Fuck!", "Good that they phasing out cobalt. But still lithium and other rare earth metals have the same slave work behind the production.", "Oof. So this is how it looks when someone jumps on the reddit bandwagon and then someone who actually knows something comes and drop kicks you off of it.", ">Why don't people react to these child slaves in the same way they did when those Thai children got trapped in a cave?\n\nNot sure the relevance of the two.", "I feel like people need to pick a side on this one. Is China communist? Or did they go through economic reforms that make them no longer communist?", "do you have evidence for this claim?", "I am sure this looks no further than to suggest we stop buying cobalt from the mines where children are used. The problem is far deeper and to take away the option for the parents to send their kids to the mines to make money to put food on the table for another day... means the parents are either left with less money and starvation, or having to send their children to the place they didn't chose over the mines... which is far likely worse for the children. The parents are not monsters, they care about their children like parents everywhere.\n\nI hate shallow videos on topics that diminishes big and extremely complex issues into \"just stop doing it\".", "That's great that there is no cobalt in Tesla batteries. That does not mean there is no cobalt in Teslas production, manufacturing, or logistics. Learn to critically think.", "Oof. This guy is salty, and he's doubling down.", "Understand why the way that we structure our economy (capitalism) necessitates institutions such as slavery to keep from collapsing under its own weight.", ">That's great that there is no cobalt in Tesla batteries. That does not mean there is no cobalt in Teslas production, manufacturing, or logistics. Learn to critically think.\n\nOof\n\nso that's what it's like when a muskrat jumps on the dick of another muskrat that has recently been \n dominated intellectually. How does it feel?", "https://youtu.be/JcJ8me22NVs?t=297", "Salty about being way smarter than you? Doubtful", "Because nobody wants to hurt China's delicate feelings. Almost all (if not all) of these mines are owned and run by China.", "I feel like I just got absolutely dominated.", "You try too hard bruh. Telling people you're smarter than them usually leads most rational people to think you're a retard with insecurities.", "Now they are because the batteries can be recycled mostly. If tesla allowed the purchase of parts for insurance write offs it be even better.", "If you take the time to look at virtually every consumer product and many kinds of food, you will find this kind of exploitation and slavery is the norm. \n\nFrom iPhones and Fashion to Chocolate and Bananas, maximizing profit margins is done on the backs of the poor.", "Compared to ICV, by a whole fucking hell of a lot, yes.", "I'm gonna peace out now, you're way too smart for me. Your intelligence is absolutely dominating me.", "It was effortless. The illusion of effort stems from your lack of education.", "So what country has political control over the drc. What you should have said is fuck the drc's government for allowingthis. Or how about the scum running the mine. Oh I know, it's because the video said colonialism.", "Phasing out cobalt, and making it less valuable, does not mean that the children will go to school. It means they will get even poorer, and likely starve.", "They kicked the communist economic policies but kept the communist authoritarianism imo", "Yes, this is mainly a political problem in Congo, resulting in children so poor they need to work in the illegal mines.", "Nobody cares what color their skin is. The global poor are too big and distant a problem for a lot of people to care about.", "and embraced the corrupt capitalism aspect too lol....", "im trying to find what brands here in California in the US that use this, itd be a shame if they got banned from doing business here , i dont want those type of products here.", "all i wanna know is, who the fuck doesn't have conscience?", "I picture if you give them anything nice eg tools they go missing instantly.", "Still, almost every Tesla owner acts like their shiddd doesn't stink. Ignorance is bliss.", "Yeah this is the norm and will always be.", "yup the rest of the EV companies will be using cobalt stuff too.", "They are welding capitalism and we don't have any idea to what purpose.\n\nWe'll all know in a while.", "We've just exported the atrocities with globalist policies. Out of sight, out of mind.", "Don’t look up!", "Modern day slavery is fine, since it's modern day and it's slavery.\n\nIncidentally, I remember seeing someone make the argument over something similar that \"if they didn't do this, we wouldn't have all the things we have\". When the truth is if this work was properly regulated, safe, and well paid, companies would simply be making slightly less profit.\n\nJust goes to show that democracy doesn't work when the populace is brainwashed.", "Lmao not really.\n\nTheir argument basically boils down to [this bullshit](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/259/257/342.png). \n\nOP was quite fucking obviously trying to take a shot at Musk by referring to the batteries in Tesla's since the video literally mentions batteries in the first minute, not the equipment that may have cobalt in it manufacturing the vehicles. They just moved the goalpost once they realized they were wrong.", "Isnt it the same as any other world exploitative abuse? No one wants to see food inc and the way our chickens and beef are raised/treated but then people have a fit when their chicken sandwich, burger or wing prices go up. We think its appropriate to pay 8 dollars for 5 chickens worth of meat. Cobalt is just the tip of things that are produced in disgusting ways. We all know Chinese factories have nets outside to catch the suicidal underpaid workers and kids there. Same stuff. But we as consumers need to have the newest, fastest, best whatever, and it needs to be now and it needs to be cheap. And then next year we'll wait in line for the same thing. \n\nPeople do react. But we can do nothing about it. Shit... the UN abandoned Rowanda mid Genocide. Is there any agency that can step in and stop things like this in the under developed world? Is there any government willing to actually spend the money to overthrow stuff like this solely on moral grounds and without any shady underlying self benefit? \n\n\nArmies are deployed for self serving power interests or revenge. Thats it. So until common folk somehow unite and hit these companies with a negative dollar effect, nothing will change. Money rules all. Cut off the flow of cash and these things collapse. On the other hand... that Iphone 13 for $1000 is a must have /S", "Classic reddit moving goalposts when they discover their argument is shit lmao", "Yeah I just didn't feel like continuing with the back and forth; it felt like I was bagging on a guy who's either autistic, 14, or both. I don't say that to be a cunt, it just felt a little 'off'.", "It’s amazing what greed can make people do.", "Before the Elon/Tesla haters jump in with hot takes, this videos is from 2017 at which point Tesla was already moving away from Cobalt based batteries. Here's a 2021 article about it.\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/samsung-panasonic-and-tesla-embracing-cobalt-free-batteries-.html", "Classic reddit move suggesting someone moved goal posts when I never did that. Good try sweet heart.\n\n\nEdit: Lmao", "The US never banned slavery, they just moved most of it out of US citizen's backyards to other nations. Even domestically slavery isn't banned. The 13th amendment explicitly allows slavery as a form of punishment", "\"Yes, I understand it looks awful that this child is working 12 hour shifts in the cobalt pits for 8 cents a day. But you must understand, this is a far better outcome for him than working in the asbestos pits for 6 cents a day!\"", "The only ones calling China a communist state are tankies, far right wingers and /r/sino users. So...trash people.\n\nChina is a fascist state utilizing a mix of capitalism and state capitalism.", "Exactly right. This isn't a race issue at all. Go to any country and society and the people in extreme poverty are always ignored. They aren't reporting this in the DRC, just like we're not reporting on all the families living in extreme poverty in your hometown.", "I am a prospector, I ve got friends who small scale mine in Congo and Sudan for gold. This isnt unusual at all, more people need to understand where their tech minerals come from. Were horribly wasteful. \n\nA huge problem with these sorts of placer mines is that this is the only work people can get, so they do it. If the kids and their parents had a better chance at a living they would do it. You also see indentured laborers who are working these mines run by gangsters to pay down debts instead of getting themselves or their families shot. \n\nThis is where and how our technological metals and minerals are mined, if you stop these elements entering the market, you force these poor people to find some other mineral to mine (usually gold).", "well, most of sub-sharan Africa is like this tbh", "The CCP is just as communist as the DPRK is a democracy.\n\nThe workers do not own the means of production in China. Corporations are headed by investors, shareholders, and CEO's just like in the US. They have plenty of billionaires, which is impossible under communism.\n\n[China is capitalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism).", "I'm shocked the reporter even uttered the word \"China\". Make no mistake, China is the new colonizer of Africa. They are trading shoddy infrastructure for access to the minerals in these countries. \n\nThey don't give a fuck about their own citizens and we're supposed to be surprised that they don't care about people half a world away?", "He's weeping over the amount of non-chopped hands.", "No no, we outsource our slavery.", "Ah yes the old blame China routine.", "[As of last year, 15 of the 19 cobalt-producing mines in Congo were owned or financed by Chinese companies](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/20/world/china-congo-cobalt.html)\n\n[In 2007, Joseph Kabila made a six-billion-dollar infrastructure deal with China that included a provision allowing the Chinese to extract six hundred thousand tons of cobalt.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/31/the-dark-side-of-congos-cobalt-rush)", "Yup also he has been working with securing contracts with nickel companies that are environmentally friendly. The most ethical electric car to buy is Tesla for now.", "I wish more people understood this, its so much more of an issue than just stopping the mining.", "Lol k. Let's not kid ourselves there are a bunch of rich westerners who are either their partners in this or explicitly approve of it. You can't distance yourself from it by crying China all the time. If anyone actually cared they wouldn't be exporting the work and production there. This is like getting mad at people from Vancouver because tax benefits meant film studios moved there. Nobody had to move. People go to get things done in China because of things like the benefits of streamlined supply chains that's not possible in the west without throwing out a bunch of regulations and protections. Everything from recycling to mining precious metals is all streamlined in China. Half the world would be sitting in squalor waiting on the global economy to reach them while we fought for the rights of workers mining the stuff we need. Your quality of life wouldn't be possible without China and that's by design. Get over yourself.", "In a follow up the two boys featured go off to school, leaving behind countless others https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T___azqvPKI", "> this videos is from 2017 at which point Tesla was already moving away from Cobalt based batteries. \n\nA quick Google shows Tesla didn't move away from Cobalt batteries in 2017. \n\nIt's signed a new deal with Glencore just last year for more Cobalt.\n\n>“Tesla will buy cobalt from Glencore for use in two new car plants in a deepening of ties between Elon Musk’s electric car maker and the Swiss mining group. Glencore will supply Tesla’s new Shanghai Gigafactory and its planned Berlin facility with the metal used in lithium-ion batteries, according to people familiar with the matter.”\n\nGlencore owns two cobalt mines in the DRC in the video featured above. \n\nIt uses less cobalt compared to other car manufacturers but still uses around 6,000 tonnes a year.\n\n>Apple, Google, Dell, Microsoft and Tesla have been named as defendants in a lawsuit filed in Washington DC by human rights firm International Rights Advocates on behalf of 14 parents and children from the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). The lawsuit, which is the result of field research conducted by anti-slavery economist Siddharth Kara, accuses the companies of aiding and abetting in the death and serious injury of children who they claim were working in cobalt mines in their supply chain. ~ 2019.", "Lol that's laughable. If it were modern day white slaves that provided the world's rare metals you'd never stop hearing about it.", "\"Streamlining\" sure is a fancy way of saying \"slave labor\". Do you think the South attempted to secede because of \"streamlining\" too.", "US/Belgium contributed to this also\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice\\_Lumumba", "Tesla is currently one of the named defendants in an on going case regarding Cobalt mining in DRC\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Rights_Advocates_v._Apple,_Microsoft,_Dell,_Tesla", "Before anyone goes hurr-durr-durr EV batteries, cobalt is also extensively used in desulphurization of diesel.", "Okay, honest hypothetical question: We agree this is bad. We stop using cobalt for batteries overnight. These mines close. What does the lives of these children and families look like now?", "It's called neocolonialism and takes more than 2 braincells to process and if you think the drc's government can just outlaw cobalt mining at will without considerable external resistance then you are either exceptionally naive or being deliberately obtuse to the fact that time and time again in these underdeveloped countries with rich natural resources some revolutionary politician comes in with new ideals and then gets not-so-mysteriously murdered. To put it simply: the government is useless and it doesn't take much for overwhelming foreign interests to keep it that way.", "Making people work in prison to help defray the costs of their care is fine by me and seems entirely reasonable.", "The 4680's are NCA cells (Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide cathodes). Practically every other lithium battery has cobalt in it. This is a complete lie. It's ridiculous how much and how often Tesla stans will straight up try to gaslight you over and over that cobalt isn't used in EV's or Teslas.\n\nhttps://www.electrive.com/2021/10/26/panasonic-presents-prototype-4680-cells/\n\nThere's up to 20kg of cobalt for a 100kWh EV:\n\nhttps://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/reducing-reliance-cobalt-lithium-ion-batteries", "I was so hoping to see these two comments in this thread. I literally came here ready to tell someone they were stupid lol. You did it for me though :)", "Well, there goes that Christmasy feeling", "Global corporations don’t like this situation. They would be much happier if a corporation like Rio Tinto moved in with heavy equipment. They would extract much more cobalt. Global corporations can’t operate in Congo, because it is home to numerous warlords and militias. This is where Kony and General Butt Naked operate.\n\nCongo has a terrible legacy of genocidal colonialism, and multi generational trauma but this is now one of the places on Earth with the least connection to the international economy. This is happening because of local violence. It is literally Kony’s fault, along with other local warlords. Corporations want stability and infrastructure, not this.", "Agreed and neither does capitalism when it means exploiting others in less well off countries", "Tesla's 4680's the brand spanking new revolutionary cells they're putting in everything are NCA cells (Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide cathodes). Practically every other lithium battery has cobalt in it. This is a complete lie. It's ridiculous how much and how often Tesla stans will straight up try to gaslight you over and over that cobalt isn't used in EV's or Teslas.\n\nhttps://www.electrive.com/2021/10/26/panasonic-presents-prototype-4680-cells/\n\nThere's up to 20kg of cobalt for a 100kWh EV:\n\nhttps://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/reducing-reliance-cobalt-lithium-ion-batteries", "If we’re arguing semantics let’s discuss how mines can’t exploit children. \n\nOnly people can do that.", "Not when we live in a country that accounts for 5% of the total world population and has 25% of the worlds population.. Private prisons kinda ruin that argument. US imprisons way too many people.", "[What care?](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/10/us/covid-prison-outbreak.html)", "Always funny seeing these messages online.\n\nAnyways lets say the entire world wanted none of that stuff anymore. What exactly do you think is going to change to make these people's lives so much better?", "But it's not like they're financing the mines so they can fill swimming pools with cobalt back home as an art piece.\n\nThe OP video nailed it: it's us richer countries that don't WANT to pay higher prices for non child-labour products. We let independent contractors do the dirty work in the middle. That way our corporations get to make billions of dollars in profits benefitting from child slavery prices but still get to wash our hands of guilt in the public eye.\n\nIn the same way that doordash driver who kicked your dog wasn't an employee of their company, just a guy who they paid on a regular basis to perform the core service of their company for you, their customer. Totally different and totally not their legal liabilty, see? (/s)", "posted from a smart phone.", "To add to this, my family knew someone with a mine in Africa. Despite wanting to pay them more, they couldn't (and weren't allowed to) lest they put them in physical danger from neighboring tribes and communities.", "Yep I ve heard the same thing. Usually its the local crime lord who hears about a crew paying more. They show up and force you into a protection racket or just destroy your equipment and beat the workers up, it keeps the locals desperate and willing to work for nothing.", "Well, the demand for colbat does that which is what Corporations seek to fulfill that demand. Who is demanding cobalt? Corporations are simply the middle person in arranging the logistics of the material to fulfill the ones responsible for such a demand, us.\n\nAin't no one here going to be boycotting if motherfuckers haven't boycotted Apple/Google/Amazon/Big Diamond/Big Fashion/insert exploitative industry.", "Dear, God. \n\nIt's me, Margret. \n\nPlease, reset the world.", "Globalist, or “(((Globalist)))”?", "Colonialism did this!!!! Fuck white people!", "dang caught us all.", "I guess cobalt is used to make car parts. What would it cost to pay these people a reasonable wage? $20 a person? It's fucking insane that the worst richest companies are allowed to buy minerals mined by slaves.", "i miss pay phones. sry, off topic", "Woof, pro-slavery propaganda on Reddit, thinly disguised as anti-capitalism to lure the masses.\n\nThats exactly the kind of shit the confederacy used to justify their inhumane practices before the Civil War. Then they banned slavery... and capitalism didn't collapse under its own weight.", "I never put all the blame anywhere. Sorry to trigger you go for a walk or something.", "while this is true, it's I think important to note that this kind of thing is allowed to happen through criminally corrupt governments enabled by an uneducated population, which has proven to be a difficult problem to solve by external forces", "Im sorry, but maybe I am misunderstanding. I thought Joshua Blahyi was based in Liberia? \n\nHas he relocated?\n\nAnd I am surprised you didn’t mention King Leopold II?", "Watch this in your Tesla.", "this is what capitalism always does. slavery and exploitation is capitalism at its core.\n\n\"those with capital make the rules.\"\n\ncapitalism has nothing to do with exchange between equals or human rights.", "It is awful. The point is that parents still chose this as the best choice out of a bad set of options.\n\nCriticize the mines themselves, but if we want justice we need to do more than just shut them down\n\n(I apologize if I misinterpreted your point, I admit to getting into the Christmas Crown Royal)", "Nah its modern because its not white people doing it, equal opportunity human exploitation! (Yes I know people of all ethnicities have owned people of their own groups since the dawn of time, I am being facetious)", "Well you just abolish capitalism of course. Then we can all be poor and uneducated to the lowest common denominator.", "Right, slavery didn't exist until the trans Atlantic slave trade", "that's because you are ok with slavery. just lick the boot and embrace the truncheon you fascist pig.", "At least grain is safe, bread for the win", "No, I'm saying within China supply chains are streamlined and the world allows slavery to continue to feed that supply chain for profit. There's no place in the world with quicker turn around times for parts than Shenzhen if you're making electronics and everyone from Apple to Google to all of your fun little start ups love it that way and help it every time they can. I'm not defending slavery at all, I'm saying you wouldn't have iphones without it and the west makes the most profit out of smart phones as a country, not China. It's literally their money and direction that the Chinese follow. It's literally just outsourcing. You don't get to drop it off at their feet and pretend it's not bankrolled by the US and Europe amongst others. Literally 'recycling' in the US was sending their waste to China for processing until recently when they stopped taking it. These are problems that the west explicitly created and approved of and would subject you to too if you didn't have pesky democracy and a cultural and political hegemony to maintain.", "The topic of conversation here is \"why isn't anybody up in arms about this slavery\" and the answer is \"because the slavers are China, and nobody wants to hurt China's feelings\".\n\nNobody is saying \"everything that China does is evil\", but we are saying \"this is something China is doing and this is evil.\"", "Mmnn Capitalism - working as designed.", "Dear Margret,\n\nI tried to tell you capitalism was a virus of satan and to embrace socialism - caring for people, but you ignored me for easy profits.", "Stop caring about profits over people.", "No, this is not the norm, this is a small minority of the production, and nearly all of these mines are illegal and run by criminal gangs who don't pay anything to the government, smuggle their shit out of the country through Rwanda, steal equipment from legitimate mines, sabotage legitimate mines, etc.\n\nAnd that's an old video, a lot changed since then.", "You’re right, General Butt Naked of Liberian. And work I did mention genocidal colonization it is always proper to mention King Leopold by name, he is one of the most evil people in modern history.\n\nBut the point stands, this isn’t a corporate operation, global corporations can’t establish long term operations in this location.\n\nKing Leopold caused inconceivable trauma, but it is profoundly Eurocentric to blame everything on him. Congolese people are capable of making ethical decisions and building a stable society. Many people have grown up never knowing stability, raised by parents and grandparents who never did. But everyone knows not to be Kony, he is every bit as bad as Leopold.", "There are a couple changes.\n\nThere would be less economical and political pressure for exorbitant high profit margins, simple as that.\n\nThere would be less proxy wars over resources resulting in an improvement of quality of life and safety.\n\nLess environmental damage caused by mining, one dimensional farming, tree cutting and it could result in an improvement of farming as a whole.\n\nAfricans for example would start to grow important crops instead of wasting resources on shit like Cocoa.\nStuff they don’t even really consume. \n\nIndonesians would invest less of their scarce land mass on Palm Oil production stuff like that.\n\nCompanies and Countries wouldn’t be interested to fund incompetent politicians or even coups in exchange for favors.\n\nMore economical flexibility if it comes to the development of their own economies.\n\nAfrica’s business model was basically intended to be pure wealth extraction.\nThats the difference between a lot of African colonies and Asian colonies.\n\nAsian colonialism was often intended to be wealth creation for the crown via manufacturing.\n\nThe shift from pure wealth extraction to wealth creation will be way faster if there is a smaller incentive for such resources and practices.\n\nPoorer States could develop their own economical niche instead of 100% depending on the business plans of big companies rooted in Neo Colonialism etc.", "anyhooo", "Fortunately we’re quickly moving towards “progressive slavery” as the term “modern day slavery” has negative connotations.", "That’s nice to hear but corruption is so high who knows what’s next", "Hey, they did an update video and these kids got to go to school with three meals a day. I hope they're doing well.", "I totally agree. Your point still one hundred percent stands.\n\nI think the situation is profoundly complicated, and there are many factors at play. I applaud you bringing up the long shadow of colonialism, as well as the warlord ripples that exist today.", "Don't be a fucking moron, China would bring in heavy equipment in a heartbeat if they could. Much more efficient. \n\nChild slaves are a local byproduct of shitty infrastructure.", "We should legalize all street drugs and vastly expand the use of capital punishment. Enough small crimes should get you there as well as any repeat violent crimes. Also, do away with the wasteful extensive appeals process, make the entire thing much cheaper from start to finish. That should fix that pesky prison population problem.", "Yeah, they started a program to regulate artisanal mines in 2019 I think, where they approved and checked something like 200 - 300 (if you can't beat them, legalize them, like for pot here) mines and collected taxes, and last time I checked all of that money was \"lost\" and didn't reach the central government, oops.... don't know what the industry look like this year, I'll go look around actual news sources from Congo instead of english language pieces like this one who just try to pretend everything is shit so their friends in \"ngo\" get more money for parties and travels.", "I mean, god willing a worldwide revolution of the proletariat.", "I've been saying for a long time now that cobalt mines in Ontario, Canada needs to reopen. It may cost more but it will be mined safely, with environmental and worker protection, plus it will create jobs and reinvigorate what is now a pretty depressed area.", "Cobalt is used in batteries, not just for electric cars but for devices like smartphones, laptops etc", "Child slaves are a byproduct of someone who is content to use child slaves to get their product. If China wanted to take the high ground, they would invest in the minimum necessary infrastructure to prevent slavery. They don't, because they don't care.", "Have a look at the Enough Project. They persuaded Steve Jobs to agree to trace the cobalt and lithium used in Apple products to make sure it was conflict free. (Not sure if they succeeded in getting Apple to clean up their supply chain entirely or not)\n\nEdit: The Enough Project appears to be suffering from a case of amateur website maintenance, and doesn't have a lot of recent info. If you want to see a 2021 overview of conflict minerals and the tech industry, read this: \n\nhttps://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-07-13-conflict-minerals-and-the-challenge-of-not-funding-human-rights-abuses", "China will own the bulk of Africa very soon", "No, the topic of conversation is that china is not solely to blame for this issue and that all first-world countries are complicit with these atrocities.", "Based", "Yes. All first world countries are happy to look the other way, because they don't want to upset China.", "\"Slavery is fine if you're caught smoking pot\"", "Lol the west are and have always been the slavers in the region they just hired the Chinese to manage their assets and investments and now cry foul when an oligarch doesn't get their cut. It'll take decades to change the economy over without it collapsing into starvation and war, that nobody had any problem with in the first place. If the Chinese refused outright they'd hire someone else to do the exact same thing. Practically every country involved with Chinese investment sees decades long commitments from day 1 with people on the ground in hard hats doing actual work for the community because that's what it takes to build relationships locally for good. Their main skillset isn't embezzling the money as 'administrative costs' as an institution so they can get their frathouse buddies kids into private school or summer somewhere exotic. They literally see it as an investment for an entire generation and it shows.\n\nMorons who don't see that are why we'll lose to them because they refuse to see the writing on the wall. Nobody outside the US and maybe a couple other countries falls for this bull. It's moronic propaganda. France literally controls half of Africa's currency flow and leeches off of it like a neocolonial parasite while contributing barely anything. 500 billion dollars a year gets siphoned off into Europe through them but not a peep comes out of anyone about 'predatory lending'. But China makes a few investments with solid commitments for the next few decades, something they actually have the political capital to commit to, and everyone loses their minds because they have nothing better to offer.\n\nYou want to see change vote for people who can enact policy for more than a couple of years at a time. It's ridiculous hearing this drum beating as if you're not just jerking each other off.", "\"exploit\" you mean give them gainful employment and supply them and their families with food and shelter?", "They probably become miners for gold, lithium, tantalum, or that other stuff that starts with T. Congo has a lot of mineral wealth, not just cobalt", "No, the US banned slavery in our country. What the US didn't do was ban it across the globe, because.....we can't. Don't have that power. Can't make laws in other countries.", "But musk was wholesome 100 on Twitter!", "> nets outside\n\nThat comment is from a bot that lifted it from another comment (original is u/ShiftyUsmc) above. So you see the context here is different. That bot is set up to jump into a thread and sidetrack.", "You are asking a bot to reply. The original user said this above in a different conversation.", "I work in manufacturing, and the good news is that some of us work hard to make sure we ethically source “conflict minerals.” The Responsible Minerals Initiative is a wonderful organization that helps people like me track Tin, Tungsten, Tantalum, Gold, Cobalt and Mica sources. The main issue is that I only know who the refiner is, not the source of the mineral. Also, most businesses and the individuals populating them know this happens and that it’s bad, but lack the tools and know how how to navigate things far outside their control.", "Surely a large company using machinery, automation and adults would be able to mine cobalt far more efficiently and numerously than slowly mining cobalt by hand with rudimentary tools?\n\nWhy hasn't some mining company taken over with technology and thus have no need to exploit child/adult workers?", "Not to mention, the production of lithium is almost as problematic as cobalt", "It's not necessarily \"globalist\". It happens locally in many places.", "Prices would be higher. And if so, they should be.", "Look up the Enough Project", "No, they’re happy to look the other way because China makes them things and they don’t have to see “how the sausage is made”", "Lol you're a joke. They don't want to upset their profits. The Chinese have nothing to do with it.", "too long, didnt read.", "No. They wouldn't. Or at least, they wouldn't have to be.\n\nHigher prices just means they're trying to protect their profits and pass the cost to their customers, instead of taking it from their profits.\n\nAnd no, they shouldn't be. Year-on-year growth to appeal the shareholders is a piss-poor vindication of dodging the market.", "Make sure you continue to shift the blame to the consumer instead of the corporate overlords forcing this situation to be reality.", "Ok, well thats a bit far, China is still happy enough doing the dirty work as long as theyre paid, theyre still equally complicit", "News flash clown, slavery is still very much alive today.", "That's just an assumption. You have no evidence of it.", "I mean, that's how all developing societies are/were. They're about a hundred years behind the West.\n\nThe thing is that the West was able to develop out of this, but are these countries going to be able to? Not if they're kneecapped by corporations with western/Chinese backing.", "It's basic economics, but sure, OK, you know better.", "r/FragileWhiteRedditor has plenty of evidence", "That's very accurate. I agree.", "Dude, we can't get people to wear a piece of cloth over their face so millions don't have to die gasping for air.\n\nYou think those kinds of people are going to give up their smart phones, cheap clothes, etc.?\n\nThere is no outrage because humans are selfish, petty, and violent creatures. There is no change because Twitter isn't the real world. The same people who took this video, and edited it, and watched it.....enjoyed gifting an Ipad to their nephew, or opening up a new phone for Christmas.\n\nI think this 'we are changing the world' generation is in for a shocker when they realize that corporations simply shifted, joined their side, managed to sell them more shit and didn't slow down in wrecking the environment, destabilizing governments, and engaging in human slavery one bit. All they got in return was a fake world like Twitter where they spent more time jerking each other off on who was a better human being, than actually affecting real change in the real world.", ">Anyways lets say the entire world wanted none of that stuff anymore\n\nWe all wanted newest, fastest, cheapest stuff. The part we have to sacrifice isn't newest or fastest, but cheapest. In a perfect world, they're not so grossly underpaid, still mine cobalts at a safe environment and workers have enough to feed their family.", "Felt bad for this little kids.", "OK", "The economy understander has logged on", "how did you extrapolate fascism out of a comment that small?\n\nWait I know - they disagreed with you. Was that it?", "Lets abolish capitalism and replace it with good old fashioned feudalism.", "The same people who criticize the US for these kinds of conditions also criticize the US for invading other countries and toppling their governments. For once, Id like to hear them propose and actual course of action for the US to take that makes them happy and doesn't result in everyone living in burlap tents.", "That’s awful there. Defending the slavers. Race to the bottom.", "It is basic economics. Which is why it's confusing that you don't get it.", "They're setting up their entire country and literally pulled 850 million people out of poverty in the process. Their goals are almost entirely different, and I've yet to see any real evidence of 'slavery' in some Chinese run mine and almost all major cobalt mining companies are Swiss or French or Canadian. The largest one Glencore is Anglo Swiss. If the market is already rigged for exploitation they're not going to do much more than hit the ceiling everyone else has set. Their only real asset for practically forever was cheap labor, let's not pretend it's big business as usual when not trying to pull your country up to some semblance of stability and progress is an existential threat. It's ridiculous to compare that to millionaires and billionaires jerking themselves off.", "But we do not, nor will we ever, live in a perfect world. Ever.\n\n\nEver.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEver.", "If we shut these mines down today, these children would be forced to manufacture cocaine.", "Let's point out that a demand for anything will result in abuses without regulations. Anywhere a profit is to be made there will be someone willing to oppress people, animals, or the enviroment to generate a competitive advantage.", "How dark are Ugyihayrs?", "The problem isn’t having people work to defray costs.\n\nThe problem is “paying” them a fraction of market rate outside prison. Mostly well under $1/hour from what I can say.\n\nGive them a choice to work off their costs while in prison, at a fair market rate for the type of work, or face debt when released.", "retorted from a tablet", "Capitalism is inherently exploitative, it doesnt matter what china’s motivations are for their actions, their actions still have negative consequences that we can see the effects of in the posted video. It might be “big business as usual” but big business is fucking evil", "Here, [read some actual articles on the subject,](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rp6qp2/inside_the_congo_cobalt_mines_that_exploit/hq3gwrb/) because you wrote what you think happens, not what is actually happening.\n\np.s. there are plenty more where that came from. Facts exist and you should look for them.", "correct.\n\n\"exploit\" means to extract labor value, which descriptively applies to literal slavery, as depicted here, and to the wage system, where a capitalist will exploit labor inputs the way one might exploit resources of lumber or coal\n\nit means you are extracting profits from resources of human labor, whether you own human chattel, control a feudal estate or rent people to labor in your factory", ">this is what capitalism always does. slavery and exploitation is capitalism at its core.\n\nWhat? Then why do most capitalist nations straight up outlaw slavery? \n\nHow does private property and free trade equate slavery? Capitalism is liberal by nature. What do you think capitalism is?", "Bu jy⁹", "And the sky would be full of candy and dolphins would shit rainbows.", "Thank you comrade.", "Wow yeah nearly a century ago between the Klan and entire black communities being wiped out of existence for being too rich some people were a little mean to the lesser whites. The horror.", "corporations would make so much more with large scale mining but they won’t invest with so much corruption. So only small dealer take whatever ore that comes their way. Large scale mines work in every other part of the world.", "It's still outlawed. The US economy flourished without it.\n\nJust because it exists in other places doesn't mean capitalism requires slavery. The over arching historical trend is very much so the opposite, and the proof is in the pudding.", "Those multinational companies in the US and China need to be held to account.", "You sure got me I wonder why they're hoarding so much cobalt. Must be for their dicks. Follow up on those companies and you'll see that most of them are partnerships between the Chinese and western mining companies because the cobalt has to go to China to be processed and be worth anything. The Chinese aren't inventing the demand or the supply, they're just middlemen who know their worth and rich westerners can't stand it when someone does that to them. Only one of the top 5 cobalt mining companies is Chinese and they contribute almost entirely the world's supply. Don't believe the spin: http://www.centurycobalt.com/cobalt", "So how does open markets and private property equate too slavery.", "?\n\nI never said they were hoarding cobalt. How high are you right now?", "Sure, but we can always move towards a perfect world. Just because it's impossible, doesn't mean there's no benefit working towards it.", "Economist what your shooting for?", "Says the woman filming with a 1000$ camera, why doesn't she pull out the 300$ and give the kid a years worth of salary, even better set up an account for the kid so I can send some dam money, i hate this whole bringing attention to the situation, give us a solution there's gotta be better then UNICEF who owns a private jet and sponsors an international football club. Sky news made millions of youtube ''bringing attention'' to the plight of these poor children, they're just as guilty as the mine owner, apple, Samsung and tesla.", "Is this camp a large supplier? I stopped watching a couple of minutes in.", "> The Chinese aren't inventing the demand or the supply, they're just middlemen who know their worth and rich westerners can't stand it when someone does that to them.\n\nYes, nobody said otherwise. The issue is that they are happily using slave labor to do it and that nobody wants to upset them.", "You are spot on. Nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with security and stability.", "How about holding the corporations who profit off of slavery accountable for their actions? They’re the ones ancouraging it and benefitting from it the most. Actually toss a couple of CEOs in jail, see how quickly workers rights improve worldwide.", "The immense never ending brainwashing through advertisements is not helping.", "Good thing we have slavery so we can stay green and save the planet from the evil fossil fuels and nuclear energy! /s", "You it 100% is, but that's not why these people are outraged, they just don't like that it's POC getting away with something for these crimes. If it was white people they'd have nothing to say about it.", "Capitalism is not liberal. \n\n>an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.\n\nPeople are going to do what is best by them, and a true capitalist society wouldn't have rules that ended slavery because the governmnet would have no control over them. It's up to the people that are making the deals to control whether or not people get used for slavery. In a pure capitalist society, if a company is poisoning the water supply, it is up to the people to punish the business, not the government. Whether it be through retribution or not buying their business is up to the people. It's also the reason that no where has a pure capitalist society. Because it's ripe to be abused by the rich. \n\nMost \"capitalist nations\" know that their people don't want to be slaves, so thus it's outlawed. \n\nOne thing is absolutely for certain, capitalism by definition is not liberal by nature.", "link doesnt work", "opens markets are rigged and manipulated and private property has existed hundreds of years before capitalism.\n\nThe push to maximum profits as the primary focus leads to exploitation. The biggest expense in business is the workers. Eliminate that, you max profits and your CEO/Board/Investors make maximum money which is their goal.", "you say that like we invented the tech. we can't miss and want things that never existed. someone introduced us simpletons to phones with cameras and cameras with mp3 players and mp3 players with emails etc.\n\nsomeone invented the \"need\" that was never actually needed. not our fault they keep cranking them out while making it impossible to repair our old devices which would otherwise still work great.\n\nthose companies want us to throw away our old tech every year for new shit. car companies want us to buy a new car every 5 years. we get laughed at if we want a car that'll last us 20 years. \n\nthis blame is not on us as consumers. fuck that bullshit.", "Lol proof? Because your article doesn't outline any specific mines or findings, just that the industry is exploitative? I'm not going to chew your thoughts for you, do you have any definitive proof it's the Chinese and not 80% of the rest of the production that's owned by the west (not by 'number of mines' which is a red herring)? It's an obvious fucking shell game and you refuse to see it. It's still the same western mining companies, but they're now contractors not outright owners because the Chinese would just refuse to source it from them or deny them access to the rest of their market. Nothing changed as far as the working conditions went.", "How dyou know it's a bot?", "What system do you propose in its place?", "Can you elaborate more on this?\n\nWhat do you mean? I'm sincerely interested about the bots and comment reposting.", "> They why do most capitalist nations straight up outlaw slavery?\n\nLet's take another look at the 13th Amendment to the US constitution...and...here we go:\n\n>Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. [Emphasis added]\n\nTo me that reads like an exception, not a straight up outlawing to me. Seems like slavery might not be quite as outlawed as you think. Sure, PRIVATE slavery is illegal, well, at least private in the case of individual citizens. But heck, with privatized prisons, and \"prison labor\" otherwise contracted to private enterprises, we've got ourselves a tried and true loophole. A loophole the size of 0.4% of US GDP. \n\nSocieties outlaw slavery only after the people being enslaved are viewed as people instead of commodities. Capitalism is agnostic to the humanity of it's workers, which is why things like the Rhine model and Nordic model have to specifically build in social welfare to supplement this perceived weakness of unfettered capitalism that historically trends towards socialist revolution.", "Welp, that's electric cars humped again. You just know conservatives will use cases like this as a strawman argument as to why ALL electric car batteries are sourced irresponsibly and unregulated so better stick to good 'ol USA gas.", "Chocolate manufacturers that advertise as slavery free need to own the plantations to be able to make that claim which means the locals see very little of that money.\n\nCompanies like Whittaker's can't advertise as slavery free because they can't guarantee the local farmers aren't using slaves when they're not looking. but their money is* entering the local economy and they have a hard stance against buying from farmers using slaves.\n\nI don't know if something similar could work for mines becasue the issue is buried so far down the manufacturing chain.", "Thats a fair argument, and I would even agree with you. However, i think it infantilizes China to imply that they dont also have an obligation to be responsible for how their actions effect the less fortunate citizens of our world, especially considering the communist ideals their country is based on.", "\"We'll only do the right thing if it's cheaper\" Capitalism in a nutshell", "There are two articles there that both provide proof. There are plenty more out there too. And scores more about how this is China's MO in lots of poor countries in lots of industries.\n\nAt this point, you have shown that you are eager to reject reality for some weird notion of pretending China doesn't do this. No evidence in the world can change your mind. Everyone who has followed even half of this thread will see that.", "You have a strange definition for \"evidence\". I can show you decades of commercials from NGOs and charities that make helping Africans their business. Apparently starving black children are effective for those organizations, because they keep using them in their marketing.", "So... a criminal warlord forces children in his territory to work long hours in a mine, and your form of justice is to throw a CEO in jail?\n\nHow about we lock up everyone who owns a cellphone, too?", "That's why people say there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, because at at least one stage, most consumer goods are products of exploitation and slavery", "It absolutely is liberal. A true capitalist society did end slavery. laissez-faire capitalism isn't the only form of capitalism, and nobody is trying to suggest it as an option. Nobody is talking about capitalism without regulation, most just want removal of regulatory capture, which is reflective of state corruption.\n\nLaws that allow individuals private property rights and free trade are by definition liberal. The state commanding industry, on the other hand, is not. How are private property and free trade rights not liberal? The entire point is allowing the individual the capacity to create industry themselves and agency over their own property.\n\nCapitalism has been historically extremely effective at reducing poverty and generating wealth for individuals across income brackets. \n\nIt doesn't promote slavery. The fact that it follows the morality of the general populace is a good thing. Again, capitalist nations where among the first and across the board rejected slavery. \n\nWe have tons of history that pretty clearly demonstrates that the state cannot command industry. There isn't a single example of a state succesfully expropriating industry and managing it effectively. It pretty much always collapses to inefficencies and state corruption.", "Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but you're making that comment on one if those exploitative devices.", "Liberalism: Slavery is illegal on this side of the invisible line. Oh what's that? It's happening on the other side of the invisible line? Oh, well, gee, there's no way we could reasonably make sure that these poor billion-dollar companies maintain traceability and prevent slavery... so...", "Regulated capitalism?", "Ok this is very bad to horrible. However what can I do about it? I would like to help but like blood diamonds, its VERY hard to find out were they came from.\n\nEdit: found the follow up for [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T___azqvPKI)", ">What? Then why do most capitalist nations straight up outlaw slavery\n\nBecause we have poorer countries for that now.\n\nEdit: people downvoting me like I think it's ok lol", "80% of Cobalt production isn't even Chinese owned. It's just a shell game trying to frame the number of new mines as some vast Chinese takeover. The largest most productive mines were already spoken for and have been owned by the west and new finds are pitiful sources in comparison. I've yet to see any direct evidence of 'slavery' out of a Chinese run mine. Even the Chinese run ones are subcontracted out to the same western mining companies who just wouldn't get the work if they didn't agree to China having a greater say in how resources bound for their own country anyway one way or another.", "You know what doesn't involve child slaves? Oil and Gas extraction in North America.", "Because it's actually real and still happening and not fixed because it's okay to exploit them. If you woke up tomorrow to french slaves people would be losing their minds. Those NGO's are just embezzling money for rich white people to pay themselves on the back half the time anyhow.", "https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rp6qp2/inside_the_congo_cobalt_mines_that_exploit/hq3frqx/", "Considering the CEO is the one directly funding the criminal warlord, yes, they should be thrown in jail. I\n\n>\tHow about we lock up everyone who owns a cellphone, too\n\nIt’s not like the vast majority of people even know where the batteries in their phones come form. Corporations do, they’re benefitting from it, directly funding it, and actually have the power to change things.", "Wouldn't go that far mate.", "Well.. it definitely still has something to do with capitalism lol. \n\nWho do you think is happily buying all this slave Cobalt?", "The solution is for the countries who have profited in the billions and trillions on the backs of colonized countries to give back wealth so they aren't forced into wage slavery.\n\n[The DRC is considered to be the richest country in natural resource](https://blog.swaliafrica.com/dr-congo-richest-in-resources-yet-poorest-country-in-the-world/)\n\nColonizers have created the conditions that force child labor to exist. They are the ones who need to return a significant portion of the wealth.\n\n[Relevant Michael Parenti](https://youtu.be/eoxT1UwTM3I)", "Not sure economy understander is a thing. But hey carry on", "Please point out the exact 'proof' because it's not specific to the Chinese. Scores of propaganda because white people get chafed by the mere idea of anyone else getting ahead doesn't concern me.", "I dont think you understand my point. ANY amount of involvement in this industry makes a country culpable in this crime against humanity. I am NOT saying that China is the primary agent here or even the majority shareholder of these mines, but to imply that they are not involved or responsible in any way is an egregious shirking of national responsibility on the world stage", "directly funding a warlord: go to jail\n\nindirectly funding a warlord: no bid deal, dont worry about it", "A cobalt mine using slaves is not free trade or private property.\n\nAgain, how is this capitalism? Can you actually provide a reason?", ">The 13th amendment to the United States Constitution provides that \"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.\"\n\nSo yes it is allowed under punishment.\n\n>Don't have that power. Can't make laws in other countries.\n\nIf you ignore the fact that the US has been a hegemony since WW2 which very much pressured specific laws in other countries and have removed or punished governments which don't adhere then yeah, sure.", "Green energy! Anything solar powered heavily relies on cobalt. This is an old video and I can't imagine how bad it is now and where it's going. Cobalt and lithium mining has A LOT of creases that have yet to be ironed out.", "Agreed. For Capitalism to function, there must be a margin. Whenever a margin exists, someone must be on the bottom. Modern Capitalist markets have a great many levels and each level has a profit margin.", "its more down to supply chain issues than militants that causes big companies to stay out of countries like Congo. If something breaks its often a massive headache to get equipment repaired and spare parts shipped without heavy bribes or tolls. Infrastructure is non existent too, so that makes things even more of a pain in the ass.", "Yep, there are some drawbacks too a globalized economy, you can't control what occurs in other nations. Corruption occurs. Corruption =/= Capitalism, no matter how hard you meme it.\n\nHow is this slavery capitalist?", "There has been a viable alternative for over a hundred years, but most people are too brainwashed to believe it's feasible. It's called Marxism/socialism.", "It's a meme.", "Ok, that's a recent development relative too the history of capitalism and is an aspect of globalized markets, not free trade or private property.\n\nIts by no means an aspect or an inherent trait. Historically it objectively has freed people from slavery.", "No, capital punishment shouldn’t even exist. 1 in 9 are innocent, it’s an absolute atrocious fact and makes me ill every time I think of it. Not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not because that absolutely is not a pragmatic or moral solution.", "That's very dismissive of this problem as it makes it seem much simpler to solve than it is. The root of the problem runs much, much deeper than modern consumerism.", "You understand the importance of investors for a stable economy right? Look what happens when the state expropriates industry. Give me a single example of that occuring succesfully. \n\nSure private property existed. Its still the means by which capitalism is defined and has been instrumental in creating the legal language used in the protections of private property.", "Lol, you know very well we can’t punish billions of people, but we can punish the few at the top who are the most guilty. Would you rather not punish anyone at all and allow slavery to continue? You don’t like my suggestion, so please provide a better one that would actually work.", "My only problem was the morons who can say with a straight face that China's feelings is why cobalt mining is exploitative. Its a nothing statement to say otherwise, because the world's largest cobalt miner is Anglo Swiss, and I've never once heard we don't do anything about it so we don't hurt the Switzerland and UK's feelings. If you're going to downgrade it to anyone involved China comes in very far down the list and it just amounts to saying cobalt mining is a horrible industry.", "A country most certainly can outlaw action by it's residents globally.\n\neg. If an Australian goes to a 3rd world country to have sex with a child they can be convicted irrespective of the age of consent in the foreign country. For all intents it's deemed to have occured within the Australian Governments jurisdiction and no amount of arguing technicalities will get past that.", "[Combatting Child Labor in the Democratic Republic of the Congo’s Cobalt Industry](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/combatting-child-labor-democratic-republic-congos-cobalt-industry-cotecco)", "They just focus on colbalt because it's the \"in\" thing to be mad about currently. In the top 8 things children are exploited in, colbalt doesn't even rank. Sugar, cotton, coffee, gold, tobacco are the top ones, but who is going to fight that fight.", "Also known as socialism. Which all the most developed countries have already. It's just matters of degrees. (very large degrees to be fair)", "This is why expropriation is necessary and moral. The idea that anyone is \"self-made\" is grossly misleading. If you own a fashion company, your clothes are probably made overseas by exploited population. If you own a tech company, your silicon is brough in from the third world. If you have an electric car company and depend on Lithium and Cobalt minerals to build your batteries, you are rich because of slave labor.\n\nMakes it really weird that Elon Musk tweeted [this](https://imgur.com/a/pkpSuzJ) once you think about it that way.", "If you go back up this comment chain you’ll see that I agree with you and ALSO countered the person who laid the blame solely on China, I simply took issue with your implication that China is entirely innocent.", "Perhaps try rereading my comment. I'm a committed and active abolitionist; so try your red baiting bullshit elsewhere. Your entire way of life is built off of the exploitation and subjugation of the poor and the global south. But as long as you're not the one lashing the whip you're perfectly happy to pretend there's nothing that can be done about it. Oink oink", "cough 13th Amendment cough largest prison population in the entire world by both number and per capita cough", "Desktop version of /u/Mandon's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)", "That's why capitalism is inherently immoral", "I disagree that expropriation is necessary and moral. If a system requires it, that system is immoral. You might as well say that slavery in America was necessary and moral", "It won't always be this way, the working class will prevail. We just might not live long enough to see it ourselves.", "Can you cite some stuff regarding Apple and any other titans of industry that use this stuff??", "\n...then no one would buy their stuff, which would subsequently force companies to reduce their margins & prices in order to make their product affordable to consumers (or else face bankruptcy).\n\nIt's the same reasoning why McDonald's doesn't charge us $100 for a burger when there's literally nothing stopping them from doing so.", "Dude read the 13th amendment slavery isn’t totally banned", "Are these the ones with connection to Hunter Biden", "Yep. The US was capitalist economically when this occured. What point do you think you're making?", "Are you... you can't be serious? You understand that slavery existed in the United States, the so-called bastion of capitalism, a little more than 150 years ago right? Fuck man, there are people alive today whose grandparents or great-grandparents were freed slaves.\n\nYou can't be this fucking brainwashed.", "yeah but the people manufacturing bread will consume and use iphones, fashion, chocolate and bananas, so even the bread is tainted :(", "The \"chaffing\" is about exploiting human beings as slaves. You are now tagged as \"Fervent slavery apologist\". Well done!", "So capitalism is inherently evil. Totally agreed.", "Capitalism = cutting labour costs at every turn for higher profit margins = slavery\n\nPretty fucking easy logic to follow mate.", "How could we make a difference?", "Yeah. Capitalist nations didn’t outlaw slavery. They just exported it.", "Muskrat is okay with this", "Not if... they.. are.. indentured... God there is no way to make it good", "What economic system was the US using when it created the 13th amendment. I wonder...\n\nIncarceration is a problem in the US, sure. But are we really pretending like we have accurate incarceration numbers from the worlds most notoriously tolitarian nations? Are we pretending like the US judicial system is worse than the CCPs? Or the DPRK? \n\nBut I like how when the state has problems with incarceration rates its capitalisms fault, and when the state makes a law to disallow slavery thats also because of capitalism.", "uhuh, sure. Keep trying to gaslight everyone. 80% of the industry's production isn't chinese, but it's Chinese feelings that are keeping the cobalt industry exploitative, not the Anglo-Swiss owners of Glencore, the largest cobalt producer, or the Canadian Ivanhoe Mining and US's Freeport-McMoRan who have a controlling stake in Gecamines, that has the most documented violations. lol you don't care about slaves, you people are just racists and bigots who want to pass off your own bullshit onto POC players as if they're the main problem when they never were.", "Are you really using this argument? Did you even WATCH the damn video? \n\nAre you telling that those kids working in mines in a toxic environment is fine? Are you really telling them that they live with modern amenities?", "Where does socialism work, Name one place that's has socialism that better than America", "How does private property laws and free trade = cutting labour costs. That's not what capitalism is.", "[150 years ago?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States#Modern_prison_labor_systems)", "This is one area where I wouldn't mind the US to deploy its absolute military supremacy to effect positive change.", "To quote your previous comment:\n\n>Colonizers have created the conditions that force child labor to exist. They are the ones who need to return a significant portion of the wealth.\n\nI was saying how it's necessary for the colonizers and the wealthy to be expropriated, not the exploited workers. The wealth does not belong to Elon Musk, it belongs to his employees who build the cars and especially the laborers who mine the resources.", "It's nothing the west didn't do already to many African people to become rich.", "sure let me hook my smartphone up to a diesel engine", "Well, yes, of course there's that whole bottle of shit that this hellscape of late stage capitalism has wrought as well.", "mixed economy", "youre very offended on the behalf of chinese people, my people (being mexicans, not white people like the ones you have a deep root hatred for for some reason) hate the chinese for their exploitative ways and yet youre here saying its ONLY the white mans fault, hmm.", "fuck off i don't for one second think you're mexican and if you're conservative edgelord you can fuck off then too", "What is your argument? Obnoxious incredulity is not a real position. Slavery existed across the board historically. Which nations made significant efforts to end it? Who bucked the trend? Who put pressures on, for example, the Ottomans, to end slavery?\n\nBut you talking about brainwashing while complaining about Capitalism is pretty hillarious.", "never going to happen, and unfortunately with the way things are going China is going to continue to exploit these mineral rich poor nations, in likely far worse ways than the western powers ever did.", "You're only being downvoted because people can't handle the truth.", "Because you may need a small army to protect your technology in an uninsured country and government.", "US imperialism at its finest.", "I'm sorry that your brain has a hard time following a pretty simple logic tree to which this is a result of capitalism.\n\nI don't give a fucking about what google defines capitalism as. This is a clear result of companies pushing for higher profit margins each quarter to appeal to shareholders, which can all be wrapped up under your \"free trade\" bullshit. \n\nPlay ignorant all you want, it's pretty fucking clearly a result of unregulated capitalism.", "Capitalism is when state incarceration. Lmao.", "They ARE moving away, not that they have completely moved away. As per both your article and this article https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batteries-in-all-standard-range-cars.html they are switching to LFP batteries which do not use cobalt.", "I'm not familiar with this specific topic however all other discourse I've seen on china's role in africa, specifically related to \"debt traps\" and \"imperialism\", have been proven to be false. I would expect this is just projection or used to deflect from the fact that westerners are the true exploiters of africa, but I will definitely look into it.\n\nchina in africa and debt trap myth:\n\nhttps://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=59720\n\nand the link referenced \n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/617953/\n\nother videos:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/4tdPGbGgBzA\n\nhttps://youtu.be/U4AlyyPplkY\n\nhttps://youtu.be/P5uzxV8ub9k\n\nhttps://youtu.be/wMCF2eu1D0E", "You didn't even read what they said.", "You guessed wrong, I am an avid environmentalist with a very small footprint.\n\nI just cannot stand those holier than thou types.", "if youd bother to go through my history (which i believe you have seeing as you spend all day on reddit) youd see ive been talking for years about me being mexican, just because you have a deep hatred of white people does not mean every person you argue against is white, my people have very bad history with the chinese trying to exploit us and yet youre trying to deminish it simply because to you the chinese can do no wrong, also im not a conservative either, but youve already made up your mind.", "My argument is that your statement is ludicrous. Less than 200 years ago the US viewed African-imported peoples as private property. It wasn't the great and wise invisible hand of the market that rang the bell of abolition. Capitalism inherently requires exploitation of peoples to function.\n\n\nThe only obnoxious thing here is you.", "If you read the article that was linked in the article I posted you would see that Tesla announced to it's investors in Q3 of this year that they are moving to LFP batteries which contain no cobalt. It's not as simple as flipping a switch, but they will eventually no longer be using cobalt. \n\nI don't have a source handy, but I remember the first time this video was posted to reddit, and I remember tesla announcing they were attempting to source cobalt from more ethical sources, with the eventual goal of getting away from cobalt altogether. At the time LFP batteries were not dense enough to be viable, now they finally are and tesla is switching.\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batteries-in-all-standard-range-cars.html", "Why couldn't the camera man help out a bit? Oh wait he was profiting of the exploitation as well.", "What's your point?", "Did you not see the \"for-profit\" part of that whole incarceration thing?", "> I'm sorry that your brain has a hard time following a pretty simple logic tree to which this is a result of capitalism.\n\nI'm sorry you apparently have no concept of what Capitalism is.\n\n>I don't give a fucking about what google defines capitalism as\n\nThat's not how google defines it. It's how it's defined as an economic system. But I guess if it ruins your argument we can pretend that Capitalism is when people do things you don't like.\n\n>which can all be wrapped up under your \"free trade\" bullshit.\n\nNo, pushing profit margins for the sake of shareholders is not \"free trade\". Free trade is the capacity of the individual to set prices and sell to individual they choose. You don't know what any of these words actually mean, do you? \"Free trade\" isn't just a random collection of words, it's a preexisting legal concept.\n\n>it's pretty fucking clearly a result of unregulated capitalism.\n\nHow? How is a cobalt mine in the Congo using slaves the result of unregulated capitalism in the US? Who even said anything about unregulated capitalism?", "I think you might mean capitalism without regulation. The root of capitalism is the idea that you should own your own labor and be free to use it or sell it. Any system where the individual doesn't own their own labor is immoral in my opinion. Trying to construct a system other than capitalism where the individual still owns their own labor is likely impossible or requires so much extra violence to be kept stable that it's not worth trying (again).", ">Cobalt is becoming more valuable than gold\n\n70k a ton versus 63 million a ton", "Whether or not it will happen is irrelevant to the morality of it", ">If you read the article that was linked in the article I posted you would see that Tesla announced to it's investors in Q3 of this year that they are moving to LFP batteries which contain no cobalt. \n\nYour original comment said they were doing that back in 2017:\n>this videos is from 2017 at which point Tesla was already moving away from Cobalt based batteries.\n\n\nThe article you linked to says Tesla will still use batteries with cobalt for longer-range uses.\n\nAnd we know Tesla is still buying thousands of tons of Cobalt. \n\nNot sure what you're trying to defend here?", "Communist China is the greatest exploiter in modern times. They have their thumb over many African communities mining this cobalt and other precious metals the world needs for electric vehicles, semiconductors etc. don’t just say that’s what capitalism does because something is bad. Lazy.", "I blame the people from the Congo. It's easy to blame the big companies, but at the end of the day, they are only buying the stuff off who? Congo government?", "As of Q3 of this year Tesla is moving to LFP (lithium-iron-phosphate) cathodes instead of NCA cells. Your source is on a new Panasonic cell that was posted in October of this year (which, yes, are improvements to the existing cells). In November Tesla announced it was moving away from those cells\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batteries-in-all-standard-range-cars.html\n\nTesla has wanted to get away from cobalt based cells for some time but LFP cells were not energy dense enough until recently.", "Luckily the US military has been \"peacekeeping\" in the Congo since the 1940s.", "So, in your view, if a state commands an industry and is attempting to make a profit, they're capitalist?", "literally every article is by some conservative stooge or theological think tank guy, or someone literally from some sort of anticommunist think thank, with no primary sources, it's laughable.", ">You understand the importance of investors for a stable economy right? \n\n1 - you dont need investors to have a stable economic system. Commerce and business have existed for thousands of years before the exploitation of capitalism.\n\n2 - there is nothing stable about capitalism - it has a downturn every 4-7 years and has 3 major failures in 20 years in the US - the best one there is.\n\n>Look what happens when the state expropriates industry.\n\nState capitalism is still capitalism. The lives of the workers are not different in the case of private capitalism vs state capitalism just as there is no difference to slave in state slavery or private slavery or the king's serfs or the nobles serfs.\n\n>Sure private property existed. Its still the means by which capitalism is defined and has been instrumental in creating the legal language used in the protections of private property.\n\nBzzzt wrong. Nothing to do with it. Capitalism has exploited private property but the invention has nothing to do private vs public. \n\nIt has everything to do with how the workplace is organized and whom has the power.\n\nSocialism the workers have power from the bottom up. They elected and appoint their supervisors and managers and president of the company because the workers do all the work that creates the profits.\n\nShareholders do not do any work and steal the profits created by the mass of workers and sit on their ass like welfare kings. \n\nThanks but no thanks.", "Ah yes. If everyone is a slave, no one is.", "lol sure ok we'll see", "What does that mean?", "I'm not arguing that point nor did I say that. My comment was originally concerning your view that somehow capitalism inherently seeks to outlaw or abolish slavery, which is patently false.", "Well, liberal could be interpreted as \"free market\", and a free market system usually means a system with perfect competition, without monopolies, artificial scarcity, etc.\n\nCapitalism on the other hand will always drive towards monopolies, so it is per definition not free market and needs government intervention to prevent market failure.\n\nEdit: To all down voters, just look up the definition of free market on Wikipedia, and how it also states how capitalism can not achieve it without intervention... Just stating facts here, not opinion.", "I guess it depends on your definition of the word \"moving\". I would call a company that is actively researching new technology like denser LFP cells moving away from cobalt. I did not say they \"moved \" away from cobalt in 2017.\n\nYes, they will still use cobalt for long range batteries, because LFP is still not energy dense enough, but they are working on it. You really seem to want to catch me in an \"ah ha\" moment, but I'm just stating facts. Tesla isn't perfect, but they are actively trying to be better, unlike almost every other car company. So I guess congrats on pointing out the flaws they are working to fix? You got me.", "If the Congo were a more stable country we would not see this but I doubt anything will change for decades", "Terrible journalism. The bit about the water and the tumor ffs.", "So does the DRC have legitimate cobalt mining operations? This seems like some people decided to go out into the middle of nowhere and do wildcat mining.", ">You really seem to want to catch me in an \"ah ha\" moment, but I'm just stating facts. Tesla isn't perfect, but they are actively trying to be better, unlike almost every other car company. So I guess congrats on pointing out the flaws they are working to fix? You got me.\n\n\nAs am I.\n\nTesla is still buying Cobalt. Thousands of tons a year and is still singing deals to get that Cobalt shipped to China. \n\n\n\nMost other care companies aren't trying to improve? I think you're perhaps a little blinded by how much you like Tesla and Musk.\n\nIt's always interesting to see people defending a car company and showing how loyal they are to a brand.", "Example numero uno of said brainwashing.", "And I welcome you to post sources about how other car companies are so much more ethical than tesla, and I will absolutely be open to changing my mind :)", ">It wasn't the great and wise invisible hand of the market that rang the bell of abolition. \n\nWhen did I say it was? Liberal nations rang the bell of abolition. Those liberal nations where economically capitalist. This is objectively true. \n\n> Capitalism inherently requires exploitation of peoples to function.\n\nThat's completely baseless. History pretty objectively demonstrates the opposite, giving individuals agency over trade and property has been massively successful at bringing them out of poverty. We've seen a greater reduction in poverty in the last 100 years than in human history prior. Even Chinas great success in growing its middle class occurred after capitalist economic reform. \n\nYou call it brainwashing. I call it being aware of basic economic history. It's pretty funny with your whole \"capitalism evil raaaah\" spiel.\n\n>The only obnoxious thing here is you.\n\nMate if that's the case you really should stop spamming my inbox. Because honestly I'm getting tired of trying to indulge you.", "And maintaining that slave labour is what is meant by \"protecting national interests/security\".\n\nThe US and Europe treat developing nations the same way corporate scum like Walmart treat their employees. Give them the bare minimum to subsist on, undermine any attempts to develop self sufficiency, and go back on their contracts when it suits them, because they've got enough money to fight until you give up (or die).", "we would need to build Avatar type mining facilities where the workers are kept safe from other neighboring crime lords and the facilities protected with heavy weapons. it would be easy to paint such an operation as imperialism even if it was to improve the populations well being", "Not a conservative larper my actually brown ass:\n\n[https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6tajuf/comment/dljisl1/?utm\\_source=share&utm\\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6tajuf/comment/dljisl1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/starterpacks/comments/jl3thb/comment/gar90e2/?utm\\_source=share&utm\\_medium=web2x&context=3\n\n[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/gs563k/what\\_harmful\\_things\\_are\\_being\\_taught\\_to\\_children/fs3rulm/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/gs563k/what_harmful_things_are_being_taught_to_children/fs3rulm/?context=3)\n\n'Brown privilege'? you fucking disgusting larper", "There is also some legislation being introduced e.g. in the EU, so that companies can be made liable for their supply chain. However, it got watered down by German's political pressure...", "Norway, to start.", ">And I welcome you to post sources about how other car companies are so much more ethical than tesla,\n\nWhere did I make that claim to begin with? \n\n\nBut anyway a very, very quick Google shows GM was named as the most ethical car company by non-profit org. Ethisphere \n\nIt's not like Tesla has a good reputation for how it treats workers, etc.", ">State capitalism is still capitalism.\n\n..... you can't be serious. No, that's not how that works.\n\n>Socialism the workers have power from the bottom up.\n\nProvide a single example of a successful socialist economy. I'll wait.", "Capitalism follows the morality of the public. When the public is liberal, both legally and economically, they tend to abolish slavery. It's not an inherent trait of Capitalism but it is something that tends to occur in nations that have liberal economics.\n\nI mean, it's patently true. Again, what nations historically abolished slavery? Which nations pushed for said abolition globally?", "> a lot changed since then.\n\nfor better or worse?", "Slavery has often been globally reinforced. Plenty of countries decried American slavery in the 1800’s while also continuing to buy boatloads of American cotton.", ">Provide a single example of a successful socialist economy. I'll wait.\n\nI'll let you know when its been put into place and 51% of the economic system. I have examples of businesses that do that, Land-o-lakes, Ocean Spray, Mondragon. But capitalism didnt start out as a huge system either, it started as small pockets of employers/employees as well.\n\n>..... you can't be serious. No, that's not how that works.\n\nWho made the choices of the company? If it isnt the workers, it isnt socialism/communism. \n\nIf a private board elects a president of a company that makes all the decisions it is no different than if the state/government appoints someone to run the business.\n\nFrom the perspective of the worker, nothing changes.", "I don’t think this means that capitalism MUST be immoral. Margins can exist while still producing a net positive for the world. \n\nIt’s just ALMOST impossible for it to exclude slavery. Not technically 100% impossible, right?...\n\nEdit: Good points.", "it would be like an American company running an oil field in isis controlled territory. you would need a bunch of security", "I don't think it's inherently immoral but I do think it is impossible to function morally. I'm a little high but that makes sense in my head.\n\nOn paper it doesn't have to be evil. But then real life people participate and someone will always try to cheat/steal.", "lol the company that buried details of faulty ignition switches (that could turn off airbags) for 10 years and allowed it's first female CEO to deal with the fallout?\n\nHow Tesla treats is workers is concerning and people are right for calling them out on it, but GM, really? Don't make me laugh.\n\nhttps://www.vox.com/2014/10/3/18073458/gm-car-recall", "What they don’t know is that if you mine it yourself, you can jump to the next solar system to sell your inventory at triple the price of what the Milky Way would pay. (NMS jokes aside, labor exploitation is a terrible and undeniable truth)", "Using machines and well organized labor to dig out minerals is cheaper and more efficient in the long\nrun than paying\nfor this kind of hand mining (see why China is making massive colonial investments).\n\nThe reasons firms are not doing this is manifold, from political instability in the region to the nature of the deposits, location, taxes, difficulty in securing permits, etc…\n\nApple would rather MiningCo started an operation there, but if MiningCo has decided it’s not worth more than other, safer investments they can make, they won’t. \n\nAnd if they do, they’ll pretend to not let kids do it and make sure the records reflect improved conditions while nothing really changes.", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lumumba", "[Patrice Lumumba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lumumba) \n \n >Patrice Émery Lumumba (; alternatively styled Patrice Hemery Lumumba; 2 July 1925 – 17 January 1961) was a Congolese politician and independence leader who served as the first Prime Minister of the independent Democratic Republic of the Congo (then Republic of the Congo) from June until September 1960. He played a significant role in the transformation of the Congo from a colony of Belgium into an independent republic. Ideologically an African nationalist and pan-Africanist, he led the Congolese National Movement (MNC) party from 1958 until he was assassinated.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "You're the one holding Tesla on some pedestal, not me. \n\nIf you want to spend your time defending them that's up to you.\n\nDespite your claims I've posted that they are and will continue to use Cobalt.", "The majority of the cobalt mining in the DRC is China. They use the easiest, cheapest methods. This includes slavery. This includes the video you just watched. This is how that government works in other countries and other industries. It has nothing to do with the racial makeup of its citizens. These are all facts.\n\nBut you are afraid of those facts, so you attempt to change the discussion into your imagined racism. There is no racism. If this was US or French or Brazilian or whoever doing this, the facts would be the same. They are slavers.", "Regulated Capitalism is not socialism. \n\nSocialism is very specifically state control of industry.", "Norway is not socialist. It's distinctly capitalist. It had a capitalist economic reform in the 80's.\n\nBernie claiming it was socialist was a misnomer.", "They could stop sourcing this kind of mineral, it’s not like there are not alternate sources. It would just be more expensive as global supply contracted. \n\nNot even necessarily saying that would really help these people, but corps do have power in the situation as purchasers.", "Norway does not follow Marxism. It’s a free market capitalist country with a strong welfare state. \n\nI don’t know why people in North America keep pushing the idea that the Nordics are socialist. It’s a political trope at this point.", "Honestly $10/hr would be baller with the purchasing power parity of Congo. Like\nTop 5% of incomes most likely.", "Right, but its close enough. And if you asked any republican in the US to institute policies that Norway has, they would call you a socialist. So in my opinion it is valid. If not for you then that's fine.", "lol lets pretend you're actually being sincere about your 'concern' while unironically posting articles by anticommunist/theologian think tank stooges like Zenz. by what metric is it majority Chinese? by number of mines? or by production? the largest, most productive veins are spoken for by Europeans and Americans and have been for decades. Number of mines is meaningless. Most production of cobalt isn't Chinese, this is a blatant and demonstrable lie. Glencore outstrips everyone by a huge margin. These practices are industry wide, you're either blatantly lying or stunningly stupid. What kind of piece of shit human being uses literal slaves to score points off lies just to make people he's never met look bad.", ">I'll let you know when its been put into place and 51% of the economic system.\n\nSo in order to work, it needs to constitute over half of the existing economy? Why?\n\n>If a private board elects a president of a company that makes all the decisions it is no different than if the state/government appoints someone to run the business.\n\nBut that's not Capitalism. Every application of Socialism has been through the state. You can talk about worker control all you want, but it always boils down too state control of industry. It has always come with state expropriation of industry. It always has led to economic collapse.", "It is impossible for it to exclude slavery as long as slavery isn't universally fought against. Companies have to compete with each other, so companies that don't use slavery will inevitably be beaten by their competitors that do.", "Right, but its close enough. And if you asked any republican in the US to institute policies that Norway has, they would call you a socialist. So in my opinion it is valid. If not for you then that's fine.", "Dude I'm realistic about Tesla having problems, I'm just saying they are trying to be better, and maybe people (like you) should relax about jumping on the lets-hate-tesla for things they can't control (the fact that viable cobalt free batteries in 2017 didn't exist yet) that they were and are trying to fix.\n\nBut if you would rather give GM, the company that killed the electric car, the ethical company of the year award that's up to you I guess. Your feelings just don't really seem to be based on facts, but rather a desire to criticize.", "That is still a citizen being affected by the law of their own country irrespective of where they physically are. \n\n\nWhat is your point? \n\n\nThe United States cannot create laws in the Congo. So child labor laws, minimum wage, OSHA, etc. all the elements that are lacking in the Congo that creates a slave like work force....isn't the jurisdiction of US law.", "huh, I know about chocolate/cocoa being one. I didn't realize these other ones. I think most people are happy to turn a blind eye so they can continue buying things at 'affordable' prices. No one want to give up any of the luxuries these days. We'd probably be way more fucking healthy if we did", "But it's not. Socialism is specifically the process where the state takes control of industry. Like what happened in Venezuela. \n\n>And if you asked any republican in the US to institute policies that Norway has, they would call you a socialist.\n\nI mean, the same handful of republicans who are clueless about what those words mean and how those economies operate. But there are plenty of Democrats who think the nordic model is a 'great socialist success' when [they themselves](https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders) are tired of hearing that. \n\nIt's welfare capitalism. High taxes =/= socialism.", "Right, but there's no reason it has to be all or nothing. The way many European countries handle things with a mix would solve a lot of problems. Maybe then we could try transitioning further as well.\n\nI don't really get the point in getting so caught up in definitions. Just because there isn't an example that is 100% accurate, doesn't mean we can't look at the examples that are on the way.", "That colbat is used in all other government systems. Your sentence should be, There is no ethical consumption under anything.", "> I'm just saying they are trying to be better, and maybe people (like you) should relax about jumping on the lets-hate-tesla for things they can't control (the fact that viable cobalt free batteries in 2017 didn't exist yet) that they were and are trying to fix.\n\nHate train?\n\nYou made a claim about Tesla which was false. \n\nI posted a fact that they've signed up for more Cobalt. \n\nYou're acting like some victim. \n\n\n>Your feelings just don't really seem to be based on facts, but rather a desire to criticize.\n\n\nHah. You're really trying that?\n\nFrom the person who thinks no other car company is trying to improve in the world other than Tesla? Or that Tesla was moving away from Cobalt in 2017? \n\nYou're not exactly rooted in facts yourself.\n\n\nIt's always wild to see how loyal people are to Musk and Tesla and practically worship them.", "> What? Then why do most capitalist nations straight up outlaw slavery?\n\nAbolition is an outcome of developments of a series of modernist moral philosophies. You're trying to somehow entwine capitalism with morality. The RSFSR didn't have slaves either and they sure as shit weren't capitalist. \n\n> That's completely baseless.\n \nModern capitalism, as we know it, necessitates the exploitation of a labor force to extract that labor force's surplus value. You're arguing as though we all exist in this nebulous void of individual free market trade, bartering our services equally with one another.\n\nAt this point I'm tired of arguing with an ancap. Have fun with yourself.", "Because we need to be clear what these mean.\n\nI agree, a regulated market economy is the best option. But people advocate for socialism without knowing what they're asking for. There is history that needs to be considered, right?\n\nIt's why I stress that Capitalism is liberal economically. It's why I also stress we shouldn't use laissez-faire Capitalism.", "Why? Living conditions around the world have been improving quite drastically in the last decades.", ">So in order to work, it needs to constitute over half of the existing economy? Why?\n\nIn order to call it a socialist economic system, the majority would have to be that type of system? this seems pretty straight forward and obvious to me...\n\n>But that's not Capitalism.\n\nit literally is. You have to analyze WHO has the power and HOW the business is organized to determine the system, not what people call it.\n\nStanding in a garage and calling yourself a car doesnt make it so.\n\nStalin saying 'this is socialism' didnt make it so. His economics had nothing to do with socialism at all because the workplace was never organized where the workers had the power. Period.\n\n\n>Every application of Socialism has been through the state.\n\nNot the economics. You have socialist programs, medicare, healthcare.\n\n>You can talk about worker control all you want, but it always boils down too state control of industry\n\nI urge you to read Capital by Marx and point to where he says anything about the state. His critique of capitalism has nothing the fuck to do with the state.\n\nThe capture of the state was supposed to be means by which socialists/communist instituted the changes he wanted.\n\nIdiots decided the capture of the state and state controlling industry was 'socialism.' it wasnt.\n\n>It always has led to economic collapse.\n\nstate capitalism has turned an agrarian country - Russia into a global super power almost over night.\n\nit turned china into a super power economy as well. \n\nYou have two major economic powers proving your position false.\n\nBut again, NEITHER are socialist/communist ECONOMIC systems.\n\nYou have state capitalism. One with markets and government planning, one without markets and government planning. \n\nIts really easy to determine which system you are in.\n\nDoes the king get half your work or a noble? IF king - state feudalism, if noble, private feudalism.\n\nDoes the state own you? State slavery. Or does a private individual own you? Private slavery.\n\nDoes the state appoint your CEO/president? State capitalism. Does private investors/board appoint the CEO? Private capitalism.\n\n\nThis isn't a hard concept. Follow who has the power and how the work place is setup and you can tell the system are you in.\n\nIf you dont want to analyze the work place, thats fine. Then we can just talk past each other and argue over definitions which gets us both no where.", "Funny of you to assume they would be making any less in profit instead of just charging the consumer more to make up for it :\\^)", ">You're trying to somehow entwine capitalism with morality.\n\nI'm entwining Capitalism with liberalism, which are related.\n\n>Modern capitalism, as we know it, necessitates the exploitation of a labor force to extract that labor force's surplus value.\n\nIf you use Marxist definitions, sure. But I don't think Marxism is a particularly compelling philosophy or lens too look at economics through. If by normal, typical definitions of these systems then it is indeed baseless. \n\n>You're arguing as though we all exist in this nebulous void of individual free market trade, bartering our services equally with one another.\n\nNo I'm not. When did I make that argument?\n\n>At this point I'm tired of arguing with an ancap. Have fun with yourself.\n\nI'm an ancap? I'm pretty sure I distinctly argued against Laissez-faire capitalism. But whatever you say mate. You're the one who keeps bothering me.", "No. They can't make laws in the Congo (we'll ignore things like treaties and embargos for now.) but they can outlaw their residents (natural or legal persons) from operating in the area or dealing with those who do (eg. blood diamonds)\n\nMuch like how posession of stolen goods doesn't relate to the act of actually stealing the goods themselves.", "You think the people whose only option in life is to work for a few dollars a day give a shit that they own their own labor? \n\nWith socialism you can still own your labor as well as the means of production. Which practically eliminates exploitation, making it superior to capitalism.", "This is emphatically not true, please stop. Unless you think the economic policies of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are identical. Which, fyi, holy shit they are not.", "What we call capitalism is though. We say we're capitalist but have tons of socialist programs to benefit society as a whole. Is the UK capitalist? Of course, but they have even more social welfare programs to help their citizens. There's not a hard line delineating between the two and they can coexist.", "How is this law worded? First we have to come up with working conditions we find acceptable in trading partners across the globe. Then we have to tell corporations headquartered and/or doing business here they have to trade for goods with only countries who meet a certain requirement for workers rights? \n\n\nSo instead of getting cobalt from the Congo, US company will buy Cobalt from some country in say Italy who has all the requirements we set forth in the law. But that company in Italy is buying from the Congo!!! \n\n\nSO MANY problems with what you are suggesting. \n\n\nWe cannot legislate better living conditions for people in other countries by throwing CEOS in jail. It won't work.", "Lithium batteries are awesome!!!! Dame with iPhone. Your Foxconn slave made phones are completely sourced with slave labour from battery minerals to manufacturony", "Communist! Communist! Communist! You hate freedom!!!!", "Is there not a history to capitalism that needs to be considered?", "It’s not ‘close enough’. It’s a liberal trope that they are socialist. I encourage you to research some more. \n\nA core tenet of Marxism, that production is centralized and in the hands of the state, does not exist there. It’s a regulated capital market. The companies are not owned by workers groups. \n\nClass exists there. There are no minimum wage laws. Norway even has one the highest levels of billionaires per capita in the world!\n\nSocialism does not mean a good welfare state.", "Of course they're not identical, but they're more similar than different when compared to most of the other members of congress. \n\nThe US could already be called socialist in some lenses, but nobody on either end of the political spectrum would say that because it is both too socialist and not socialist enough at the same time depending on who you ask. Capitalism and Socialism can coexist and have a lot of overlap in the real world, and do. Socialists (like myself) are not communist and regulated capitalism is the path forward (with greater and more comprehensive socialist policies).", "> Let's not kid ourselves there are a bunch of rich westerners who are either their partners in this or explicitly approve of it. \n\nAs opposed to rich Easterners who don't?", "Yeah by $20 I mean $20 a day. If these guys are making $1 a day, imagine what $20 a day would do? It isn’t shit to us and it’d change these peoples lives.", "Right, but welfare isn't socialism. \n\nAnd yea, I agree, the two can coexist. Markets with regulation are the best option. I'm not arguing for Corpotism or unregulated Capitalism. Wanting to increase wellfare from the state isn't mutually exclusive to Capitalism, nor does it represent socialism. \n\nBut I understand that these are common interpretations of what these things mean. I just think we need to be careful to accurately define what these systems represent, you know?", "Not outrage towards Disney for editing out the Uighur concentration camps while filming Mulan either.", "there are 18 million millionaires in the US alone. Quit your bullshit, the west contributes more problems to the world than anyone wants to admit.", "Is this where Elon gets his precious Tesla materials?", "Why is it our responsibility to punish anyone? \n\n\nDo you know why this human powered mine exists in the Congo? Corporations would LOVE to set up a corporate mining operation there, but they can't, because of the violent warlords who would murder, rape, ransom, and steal everything they brought into the country. \n\n\nNot even sure US companies are directly buying Cobalt from this particular mine or others like it. Some of our trading partners might be. Want to have a trade war over it? \n\n\nNot going to happen. \n\n\nNOW, if you want to talk about what 'we' can do, the BEST the United States can do is threaten to bring \"Freedom\" to the people of the Congo, and go looking for those evil doers.", "Bro, you’ve been conditioned to believe that anything to the left of work-hard-or-die is Marxism. As others have pointed out, Norway is somewhere in the centre of the economic spectrum with a regulated, mixed market economy. There are more choices than the binary Laissez-Faire or Centrally Planned Marxism.", "I did not make a claim that was false. I made a claim that you interpreted as false, which has since been vindicated by recent statements from Tesla.\n\nYou keep making this personal by saying things like I put Tesla \"on a pedestal\" so, yeah, I'm happy to point out your straw man arguments are weak. Tesla buys lots of cobalt - this is true. They are moving to batteries that do not use cobalt - this is also true. The first does not invalidate the second, unlike you seem to believe.\n\nThe only thing that is wild here is how hard you are trying to paint me as a Tesla fanatic. I don't own a tesla, I don't own tesla stock, but I think it is praiseworthy that a company that is trying to end fossil fuel dependency and make the world a better, more sustainable place. Until Tesla became a viable company with the Model S, no car company was seriously developing electric cars and that includes the company you put on a pedestal - GM. \n\nI don't understand where your hate for Tesla comes from. Maybe you're just a shill for fossil fuels ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯", "Which companies mine from these places? I know I've heard Tesla definitely does. Anyone else?", "Of course the totalitarian governments have terrible track records of incarceration rates and accountability, but you were trying to say the US doesn't have slaves weren't you? Don't try to change the subject, you sneaky bastard.\n\nThe state exists to protect capital interests, same in US, as in China, as in DPRK. It will do whatever is the politically expedient thing to do.", "The history of Capitalism is relatively positive. In the last 100 years we've seen more people come out of poverty than in almost all of human history beforehand. The middle class is booming. Yeah, we've got things like the Banana wars. As far as relative systems go though liberal economics has done more for each individual than any other system.\n\nCorprotism is becoming a problem, but that is entwined with state corruption and doesn't necessarily represent capitalism. I'm not rejecting that problem or pretending it doesn't exist. But many use it as a cudgel too decry capitalism for the sake of more state control of industry.", "And there are 5.3 million millionaires in China, and that number is growing quite fast. I really don't see your point. Are China's, or other Eastern nations millionaires any better? Do they care more ethically sourcing their supply lines in the East?", "And without any outside intervention they will likely get paid even less. Cobalt is probably being mined over the other minerals because it is more abundant and/or valuable. Switching to gold or lithium probably means less abundance of the mineral, or more difficulty in extracting, leading to less profit and lower wages.", "That's basically what I mean. You could say nothing in reality has an inherent moral value, but put into practice, it's always immoral. It's the same way that I can't conceive of owning someone as property as moral", "> I made a claim that you interpreted as false, which has since been vindicated by recently statements from Tesla.\n\nYou claimed they were moving away from Cobalt batteries in 2017. There's little evidence of this happening in 2017. You linked to an article from 2021. \n\n\n\n\n> You keep making this personal by saying things like I put Tesla \"on a pedestal\" so, yeah, I'm happy to point out your straw man arguments are weak. \n\nWhen you claim Tesla is the only car company in the world trying to improve? Yes that's you putting it on a pedestal and yes, that certainly paints you as some Tesla-fanatic.\n\n\n>The only thing that is wild here is how hard you are trying to paint me as a Tesla fanatic.\n\n\n\n> that includes the company you put on a pedestal - GM.\n\nI did that? You made a poor strawman argument at me and I replied with GM. \n\nI didn't put GM on a pedestal. Unlike you I don't worship car companies. \n\n\n\n>I don't understand where your hate for Tesla comes from. Maybe you're just a shill for fossil fuels ¯_(ツ)_/¯\n\nAgain, this knee-jerk response you have to valid criticism is just sad.\n\nIt's alright for people to criticise billion dollar companies. You don't need to take it personal. They will be ok.", "Think of all the cobalt that could be farmed using proper machinery and non-children miners.", "I just watched it last night and damn it captured modern capitalist world perfectly, not the easiest to watch if you're concerned about the world we live in.", "mixed economy protects private property and allows a level of economic freedom in the use of capital, but also allows for governments to interfere in economic activities in order to achieve social aims\nor tl:dr it is captialism and socialism combined", "I know full well what socialism is. I also know what people in the US think it is.\n\nAnd at the end of the day, its pretty unlikely \"true socialism\" is ever implemented, just due to the stigma alone. But there are quite a few countries that you could look towards that are having success moving gradually away from total free market capitalism.", ">but you were trying to say the US doesn't have slaves weren't you?\n\nIf you're trying to argue that prisoners = slaves, then make that argument. The US, by legal definitions, outlawed slavery, objectively.\n\n> Don't try to change the subject, you sneaky bastard.\n\nWhen did I try and change the subject? You brought up the comparison of the US's prisoner population relative too the rest of the world. I made the point that those nations don't accurately portray those things, and that comparing the relative US judiciary, which does have its own problems but relatively those present a stark difference. You're the one who brought that subject up.\n\nDon't try and accuse me of dishonesty for responding too your assertion. \n\n>The state exists to protect capital interests, same in US, as in China, as in DPRK\n\nThe state exists to protect the states interests. Ask Jack Ma how his \"capital interests\" have been protected in the CCP.", "The issue is not the cobalt, it's about the conditions people are forced to endure to survive. People are forced to endure slave like conditions because capitalism determines power/wealth and who's allowed to have it. If the workers owned the company and doing so were able to decide what happens to profits democratically, it's not necessarily immoral to mine cobalt. \n\nCould their be other issues that could make it wrong to mine certain materials? Yes, but in the context of this conversation, the issue is not that cobalt is being mined, but it's about the circumstances under which people are forced to endure exploitation to survive", "Reading your comment I think we both agree that things can indeed be inherently immoral (slavery).\n\nJust to clarify, I agree with you as far as outcome. The semantics aren't really important I know but your comment made my brain light up.", "???", "If I qualify as a Tesla-fanatic you certainly qualify as an Anti-Tesla Fanatic, and as someone who says he doesn't worship car companies you seem to do a lot of (poorly performed) research on them. Have a nice day dude!", "I'm indifferent on car companies because they're companies....\n\nNot sure what was poorly researched. \n\nYou claimed they moved away from cobalt in 2017. Zero evidence of this at the time. This was a lie. \n\nYou claimed they're the only company working to improve. Obviously this absolute utter-nonsense on your part. \n\nYou then hid behind some tesla-hating-bandwagon label knee-jerk response because you can't handle Tesla being criticised.\n\n\nI'm sure Musk appreciates you defending him. 👍", "Again you misquoted me. I said \"moving\" not \"moved\" - you really want to push a false narrative don't you? The only liar here is you :)\n\nDo you get paid per word by your PR firm? I really can't think of why else you are so invested in being wrong :)", "Where are those Ugyhar lawyers now?", "Congo isn't a capitalist country, it's an anarchy, their central government has almost no power and capital owners get dispossessed of their capital really fast by local warlords. \n\n>If the workers owned the company and doing so were able to decide what happens to profits democratically, it's not necessarily immoral to mine cobalt.\n\nWhat company? These kinds of operations are usually done in informal mines, anyone that can dispose the local warlord can go there and use it for himself, there is no company operating it.", ">Again you misquoted me. I said \"moving\" not \"moved\" - you really want to push a false narrative don't you? The only liar here is you :)\n\nSigh. There's little to no evidence of Tesla moving in 2017. \n\n\n>Do you get paid per word by your PR firm? I really can't think of why else you are so invested in being wrong :)\n\n What company would that be, genius? lol who do you think I'm being paid by? \n\nYou're the one shilling for Tesla so maybe you're on the payroll. Seems more likely.\n\nThough there seem to be plenty of people who worship Musk for free so maybe you're in that camp.", "Sad truth of life in Africa is your value is directly tied to your earning potential. A small boy can work in a mine as soon as he is strong enough to lift a shovel or a bag, small girls face a similar but different struggle. The motivator for them is survival, it's a reality of the sick, twisted world we live in. They doing the best they can while the rest of the world watches youtube reports and pretend to care. Yes things might change in 5 or 10 years but that small boy wants to eat today.", "if the chinese company in the nyt article is convicted it will be interesting to see how china reacts as there is precedence of them taking action to punish chinese companies who operate outside the local laws:\n\nhttps://www.reuters.com/article/congo-mining-china-idUSL8N2QG3G2\n\nthere is plenty of evidence contrary to popular anti-china sentiment about their role in africa, I would suspect we are missing context and information on this issue as well.\n\nchina in africa and debt trap myth:\n\nhttps://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=59720\n\nand the link referenced \n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/617953/\n\nother videos:\n\nthis video specifically talks about china and chinese companies in the drc at 20:07:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/4tdPGbGgBzA\n\nhttps://youtu.be/U4AlyyPplkY\n\nhttps://youtu.be/P5uzxV8ub9k\n\nhttps://youtu.be/wMCF2eu1D0E", "I'm talking about what's possible. That was obvious to everyone. \n\nWell, almost everyone... :^)", "Love it, you can't think of a good response, so you come back with \"no u\"", "Unfortunately an oxymoron but sure let's try it.", "People are cheap and expendable. If you don't find cobolt today, you don't get paid. A piece of machinery will still burn hundreds or thousands of dollars of diesel even if it finds nothing.", "From the person who when Tesla got criticised resorted to \"And I welcome you to post sources about how other car companies are so much more ethical than tesla,\"\n\nlol. You might want to get off your high-horse there.", "so you have 2 posts from a year ago (you actually dug through my profile omegalul) showing that ive talked about me being mexican, and yet im larping, in that case i highly doubt youre pakistani if anything.", "Yes, because your position was that tesla is bad, so then the obvious question would be, \"Who is better?\"\n\nI think that's a bit better than being called a shill and then replying \"no you're the shill\" lol", ">Yes, because your position was that tesla is bad, so then the obvious question would be, \"Who is better?\"\n\nSo if you criticise a company you have to say what other company is better? \n\nThat makes zero sense and neither did you saying I work for a PR firm but that's obvious given you ignored the questions asked.\n\nPerhaps you saw how idiotic you were being?", "The Congo has been systematically oppressed by Colonizers who exploit their resources for capital gain. Maybe read about king Leopold and the atrocities he committed for the benefit of the Dutch east India company. Because of Colonizers destroying the country, the largest capitalist companies exploit cheap labor and resources from the Congo. Profits over people created these circumstances", "Which..the US already has. Mixed market economy is simply a general term. It doesn't fix anything alone.", "If I criticize a company like Walmart and someone asks me to point out a company that's better than Walmart I would say sure, try Costco instead, or your local grocery store, etc. It's not exactly hard. The reason you're having trouble finding a better car company is because car companies pretty much suck across the board.\n\nI really really don't understand where your dislike of Tesla comes from. I would genuinely like to understand how you can think they are so bad when they are clearly doing much more for the world than their competition.\n\nBecause you have not been able to identify a better company or articulate how Tesla should be doing things differently I can only conclude you have another motive - and being paid to trash them would make a lot of sense. If there is another reason, feel free to enlighten me.", "There's no ethical consumption under communism either due to the same kind of corruption. The only golden path is the one in the middle, but moderation is not a concept that humans can easily understand, which is why we're talking about capitalism as a whole right now instead of specifically helping these people.", ">If I criticize a company like Walmart and someone asks me to point out a company that's better than Walmart I would say sure, try Costco instead, or your local grocery store, etc. It's not exactly hard.\n\nBut it's entirely irrelevant what others are doing. I levelled criticism at Tesla and your knee-jerk response what \"well what are others doing\". What's it matter what others are doing? \n \nIt's just a way of your trying to deflect from Tesla. \n\n\n> when they are clearly doing much more for the world than their competition.\n\nHah. Lol. Wow. You really are far out there in your Tesla shilling, eh? \n\nThere's that pedestal again.\n\n\n>I can only conclude you have another motive - and being paid to trash them would make a lot of sense. If there is another reason, feel free to enlighten me.\n\nYou really can't wrap your head around people criticising Tesla without some motive behind the scenes for them doing it?", "Yeah, colonizers used to oppress the country since they actually had power to enforce their ownership over stuff. Right now, Congo's government has no power to enforce ownership of anything, any warlord can, and often do, just go and take anything they want from other warlords or villagers. It's an anarchic free for all.", "What’s the alternative for the poor in these developing economies? Starvation? Prostitution?", "Why do the people stand for this? Their government has decided this is OK, and the people control who runs the government, why is this allowed? If you blame a corporation then why does their government allow such low wages and dangerous work? Why does their government not have laws protecting their children, the DRC is supposed to be democratic", "Africa is not poor. Africa is rich. Rich in every resource the modern world needs. They just dont get to keep any of it.", "do you have anything you can link me on france in china? I would be interested in reading about the currency flow and money siphoned into europe if you have anything. thanks!", "I'd be curious as to your definition of communism, because it apparently means anything to anyone. What is unethical about the type of anarcho-communism in the basque prior to the Spanish Civil War? The employees owned their labor, and determined what they would do on their own terms.", "This is why it is so important that the European mines start production asap, for example the [Lithium mine in Kokkola](https://www.keliber.fi/en/), Finland.", "My very first comment was that Tesla was moving away from cobalt since 2017. It is true that nothing meaningful has happened with regards to that until this year, but that is how research works. If you really wanted to just point out a criticism, you could say, ok, that's great that they are moving away from cobalt, but it doesn't change the fact that they exploited people and will continue to exploit people until they finish transitioning to LFP cells. At which point there would be nothing for me to say, you'd be right.\n\nInstead you argued with me about the semantics of moving vs moved. Then I suggested you refer me to company that was better than Tesla. At that point you could have just said, it doesn't matter if Tesla is the best company, they should still be held accountable (like you just did). Ok, fair enough, that's your opinion. But you didn't, you just wanted to one up me, so you came back with \"GM\"\n\nCome on dude. You know you've made this personal and your arguments have been disingenuous at times. I'm more than happy to admit Tesla has sourced Cobalt from the Congo and continues to do so - can you really not admit that they've been trying to do better?", "Forces innovation too. Why use cobalt when a cheaper alternative production technique is found. Same with disassembling higher cost for cobalt makes it more worthwhile to reuse it from old Phones.", "That's not what socialism is.\n\nSocialism is when the means of production is owned by society.\n\n\nHow do people still fuck this up?", "https://globalvoices.org/2019/12/24/8-west-african-countries-rename-currency-in-historic-break-from-france-but-colonial-era-taxes-persist/\n\nhttps://afritechnews.com/french-colonial-tax/\n\nhttps://blogs.mediapart.fr/jecmaus/blog/300114/franceafrique-14-african-countries-forced-france-pay-colonial-tax-benefits-slavery-and-colonization", "This is pretty ironic considering you have no idea what socialism is.", "For a margin to exist someone is getting screwed either by working more than necessary or by paying more than necessary. Is it immoral? Depends on your moral I guess...", "Don't forget \"We need that cobalt\"...", "Yawn. Awareness. Yay. No one cares.", "Tesla’s newest cell design has no cobalt but we haven’t seen it yet sold in their cars. Takes a while to get the production ramped up apparently. I’m hoping soon.", ">My very first comment was that Tesla was moving away from cobalt since 2017. It is true that nothing meaningful has happened with regards to that until this year, but that is how research works. \n\nWell it seems like you pulled the 2017 figure out of thin air based on your attempt to deflect from the video and defend Tesla's honour. \n\n\n> At that point you could have just said, it doesn't matter if Tesla is the best company, they should still be held accountable (like you just did). Ok, fair enough, that's your opinion. But you didn't, you just wanted to one up me, so you came back with \"GM\"\n\nNope you're lying again. You specifically asked for companies which were doing better.\n\nI don't care about companies like you and certainly don't care about \"one upping\" someone.\n\n\nYou asked for a company and I gave you one, now you're saying I should have said something else to your own question? lol", "Okay... what do you think constitutes 'society'? What established body?\n\nPretty much every [definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism) acknowledges state control. Pretty much every real world example application has had industry exporpriated by the state. I don't know why you'd try and argue against that, it's a real head scratcher. Unless you're intentionally trying to distance it from those real world examples.\n\nI don't know mate, how do y'all keep fucking it up?", "Ah so their new one. Their last one def does tho and I'm downvoted. Elon fanboys make me sick.", "If only the government officials would stop getting paid off for short term profits and look to lift their people out of poverty in the long term. Easier said than done obviously.", "Think pieces? It's the New York Times lol. Adding strawmen to your goalpost moving now. Brilliant!\n\nYou are the literal piece of shit who is trying to cover up and deny slave labor.", "Profit in itself is not inherently bad, the problem is that the margins are smaller at the bottom and bigger at the top. Everyone in the chain could be paid fairly according to their cost of living (which is another interesting topic) and we as the end consumers could still pay the same price. That’s still capitalism if I’m not mistaken, but without the people at the top amassing insane amounts of wealth. Life is short anyway, no one needs millions or billions to live a happy balanced fulfilled life.", "Cheap is cheap, efficiency be damned. Who would supply these upfront costs? The government? They're already getting paid off and living well. The middlemen like the status quo.", "This..", "Read the rest of thread, there's tons and that's the tip of the iceberg", "You are fucking it up mate, you are still fucking it up.\n\n\nSocialism has little to do with state control. Literally just read a wiki on socialism and you'll no longer look like an idiot on the subject. \n\nWhat are examples of socialism? \n\nUnions. \n\nSubsidized healthcare.\n\nLibraries.\n\nPublic transit. \n\n\nSocialism is a redistribution of wealth, it consists of policies that benefit the many over the few. Yes, the government has to redistribute the wealth because guess what? Amazon sure as fuck isn't gonna do it.\n\n\nEdit:\n\nI don't know why im so angry at you. This subject turns me into a monster.", "You can still have new tech but with everyone paid fairly and Apple for instance having a few billion less net profit.", "Anywhere I can support that helps the people struggling in this region??", "But slavery has happened under virtually every communist system as well. Every flag with a hammer and sickle today employs slave labor of one form or another. The USSR may have been the most prolific slave state ever for a time. \n\nI don't believe slavery is inevitable but capitalism does not appear to be the sole culprit.", "You're not a socialist, you're a social democrat.", "lol what? I don't understand what you're saying I'm lying about. \n\nI wrote \"And I welcome you to post sources about how other car companies are so much more ethical than tesla, and I will absolutely be open to changing my mind\"\n\nYou wrote \"But anyway a very, very quick Google shows GM was named as the most ethical car company by non-profit org. Ethisphere\"\n\nI'm confused as to what you think I'm lying about here. I asked for a company that was more ethical and you replied \"GM\" How is that a lie?\n\nI was not saying you should have said something else, I'm saying that if you STARTED by saying what you said in one of your more recent comments: that it doesn't matter if Tesla is the best (or specifically, most ethical) car company, buying cobalt from Congo is wrong - then I would have said fair enough. \n\nI'm not saying you should have said that, just that if you had, I would accepted your opinion at face value. \n\nSuggesting GM was more ethical was completely disingenuous.", "It's true. Same with raise the minimum wage. It means executives make less money, the company makes less. Even tho it would be better for everyone else. \n\nCapitalism is fucked.", "Why can't we be mad at both?", ">I'm confused as to what you think I'm lying about here. I asked for a company that was more ethical and you replied \"GM\" How is that a lie?\n\n\nYou said I was trying to \"one up\" you by mentioning a company. \n\n\n>But you didn't, you just wanted to one up me, so you came back with \"GM\"\n\nYou asked for a company, I gave one and then you tried to use the fact that I gave you a company which you asked for as me trying to \"one up\" you?\n\nI hope you realise how silly your argument is there.\n\n\n>Suggesting GM was more ethical was completely disingenuous.\n\nFirst thing I googled. \n\nMost people don't know how ethical companies are. 🤷‍♂️", "Socialism isn't when the government owns/does things. It's when the workers own the means of production.", "I'm unsure of what these documentaries do anymore, if they ever did anything other then make things more secretive. It's just like sadness porn, and the second the exploited can be replaced by robots; they will. And I doubt that future is a bright one.", "Check out Enough Project", "It is true. The United States could outlaw United States based companies from operating in the Congo, or anywhere for that matter. Let's set aside the inability for Congress to pass laws that are not approved of by corporate lobby. Say they do and it is law. I think at that point a middle man industry would spring up. An Italian company could exploit the resources in the Congo, and then that company could deal with a United States based company. No changes made, middle man company skims some off the top, and the US based company inflates it's prices a bit so not red nickel rolls out the door. \n\n\nI mean, I can't think of anything the US could do that the corporations couldn't and haven't already gotten around. Other than perhaps a scorched Earth policy of trade that would grind the US economy to a halt, and would NEVER pass into law for that reason. Ever. EVER. \n\n\nBasically the problem isn't something that can be corrected by the US alone. It would take the cooperation of the global economy and would heavily involve the UN. EVEN THEN, some countries aren't a part of the UN and would ignore such rules. Other countries would agree and then turn a blind eye to a black market industry. \n\n\nThe root of the problem are the warlords in the Congo, the corrupt government of the Congo, and the uneducated citizens of the Congo who are kept just barely surviving and cannot fight back. \n\n\nTL;DR It's a shitty deal, and I am not saying there aren't solutions, I am saying it isn't as simple as \"The US should put a stop to this\". The US doesn't control the world. We can't do it alone and it isn't our sole responsibility for that reason.", "This is stupidly false. As long as you have two specialists each capable of producing what the other needs, they'll trade for the specialized goods, and that's capitalism. That's it.\n\nIf you want to blame someone other than the DRC(who're in direct control of DRC labor laws, and labor laws are why this doesn't happen elsewhere), blame the lack of political will that allows the DRC free trade to sell their goods despite these conditions. Y'know, our government, China, etc.", "What's your point? I said a thing is bad, and you said something else was bad too? Did I say slavery only happens under capitalism?", "It's only the greatest exploiter because it's coming from a Western narrative. When it was everyone else doing it, nobody batted an eyelid, not the Governments doing it anyway - but now that it's someone else...", "No: People are inherently evil. Capitalism is just an idea.", "No I'm not, but thanks. I'm just a socialist who lives in the real world and knows that we will never get there, except possibly through regulated capitalism first.", "It’s really quite striking, you held your phone for all this time, it’s part of you, it’s a 3rd arm or eye. It’s an organ you need. You know where it is when you go to bed, it’s the first thing you look for when you wake up, every fucking day. It’s part of you. It is you. Inseparable. For perhaps years. \n\nWhat you’ve been looking at this whole time in your hand, part of it may as well have been seen and held by that 4 year old. That never gets to see what you do.", "I'm shocked you're not getting downvoted for speaking the truth. If redditors had half an inkling about how bad France is still fucking over their former colonies, they'd probably go on a hunger strike for the next 12 minutes. \n\n France has been in Africa for literally centuries and still hasn't done jack shit to improve the place. All they do is take take take.", "lol ok dude, poor phrasing on my part by saying \"one up\" The point I'm making is that you didn't want to admit that there really aren't any car companies that are notably more ethical than Tesla. But rather than say that, you did \"a quick google search\" and said GM.\n\nWhatever you call that - I felt that it was in bad faith. I said \"one up\" because one upping someone per oxford is literally just \"do better than (someone)\", and that's what it seemed like you were trying to do (but in bad faith). \n\nI remain incredibly perplexed by your general attitude towards Tesla. Do you really not think Tesla is trying to do better?", "Damn There are so many Kids O.O", "If you think these multi-national corps are going to spend 100s of 1000s of dollars on mining robots to replace lives they deem irrelevant then you are confused. Like the video says, they don't care about the source. Simply the lowest price. Low prices don't come from losing millions of dollars in muddy holes on accident.", "The US Supreme Court ruled this year that companies don't have any responsibility for their suppliers and thus cannot be sued by the slaves working for their suppliers. A lot of the companies, like Nestle who was the subject of the case, know damn well what is going on at the farms, mines, etc that are providing their unprocessed resources, often because they own the farm/mine/etc through shell companies. Biden just signed a bipartisan bill that banned goods made by slave labor, but only in Xinjiang. Why can't the US government ban all goods made with slave labor? Targeting only Xinjiang shows this is political posturing rather than an actual stand for human rights.", "Oh geez.. seriously mate.. no I'm not. I promise you I'm not.\n\nSocialism is not when the state does things. It's funny that you're getting so mad while actively misrepresenting what it is. \n\nSocialism is specifically \"common\" ownership of industry. In practice, 100% of the time, that's the state. There are no notable socialist communes taking over industries. State control of the means of production rather than market, or value based is an essential hallmark of socialist economy. I legitmately can't wrap my head around how you'd arrive at the wrong conclusion and lash out when people correctly define it.", "Tesla is one of the few EV makers who [don't use conflict-sourced Cobalt](https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/about/legal/2018-conflict-minerals-report.pdf), actually. There are other sources, though they are much less abundant than Congo. Further reading: https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf", "Exactly. Someone else mentioned robots replacing these people one day. I'm like \"ya right.\"", "I guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree, because everything I read and understand about socialism is what I just described to you.", "> is that you didn't want to admit that there really aren't any car companies that are notably more ethical than Tesla\n\nHow do you even measure it? \n\nI think it's a rather silly thing to try and quantify to begin with.\n\nTesla have a history of treating staff poorly. Countless articles on staff being injured, unsafe working conditions, being compared to sweatshops. \n\n\nDoes treating your staff like that get ignored if you move away from Cobalt? \n\nYou're the one calling them the most ethical so how are you measuring it?", "Yea you're right, but that honestly just makes it all a little bit more bleek. I don't think anybody really feels bad for the slavery that takes place anymore, at least not in a manner of which they can change it.", "Then you have a massive misunderstanding of what it is.\n\nBut that's fine. It's a relatively common misunderstanding. The same one that leads people to believe the nordic model is socialist.", "Or maybe it's you who has the massive misunderstanding? \n\nIf the Nordic model is not socialist, if Canada isn't socialist, than what are they?", "he doesn't have a source don't bother. only one of the top 5 cobalt producers are Chinese. 80% of cobalt production is done by european and american mining companies. The largest cobalt company in the world is Glencore, and they're Anglo-Swiss. This guy is some sort of shill, who won't admit that other players who've been around longer are far more culpable, and saying 'nobody wants to hurt China's feelings' is plainly bullshit and nothing to with 80% of the industry.", "They're [captialist](https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders) That's how they define themselves. It's literally called wellfare capitalism. High taxes and wellfare are not socialism\n\n>In a socialist economy, public officials control producers, consumers, savers, borrowers, and investors by taking over and regulating trade, the flow of capital, and other resources\n\nhttps://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/socialism.asp\n\nSocialism is a need based, centrally planned economy, where the value of goods is dictated by the state.\n\nCapitalism is the value based, market economy where the value of goods is dictated by demand.", "You are downvoted because it's inaccurate. Their current battery uses very little cobalt, (compared to other) one of the advantages of it from the start, but they also don't source cobalt from the Congo. Even then, their new batteries, which have started being put in some batteries already, uses no cobalt.", "Do the warlords do all for fun, or do they do it for capital?", "Nissan Leafs up until 2017 used no Cobalt (Manganese instead), it was added at that point to the 2nd gen batteries for more range.", "Becasue most Captialistic countries aren't 100% captatalistic. Its not a binary switch lol. You gotta have laws and regulations to outlaw slavery. Most Western countries have capitalism limited by socialistic practices, like workers rights and such. And yes, there are Liberal practices too. But Captialism needs to be shackled to work", "congratulations.", "The rise of EVs will make this exponentially worse", "But not Diesel because Cobalt is used to refine it.", "Just because a country has a capitalist system does not mean it is a capitalist country. Canada is rife with socialist policy and representation such as with the NDP. \n\n\nThis is my problem with the arguement in it's entirety, people argue about like socialism automatically means Russia, china or Vietnam. It's often used as a talking point by right leaning individuals as ammunition to talk shit about socialism when people wouldn't have fucking roads without it.", "Again I'm not saying that Tesla does not have problems. How they treat staff should be improved. This blog post for instance shows they still have a ways to go in admitting wrongdoing https://www.tesla.com/blog/regarding-todays-jury-verdict - however the blog post does also mention the steps they've taken in recent years to improve diversity and inclusion.\n\nI think that every major car company that exists today has at least one major incident where they knowingly endangered the public whether it was GM with ignition switches or Toyota with the Acceleration scandal. Maybe Tesla hasn't had a major incident yet because they are just so much younger than every other major car company. However, because they have not had such an incident, and because their mission is to help transition the world to sustainable energy, I do think that makes them more ethical in general. Even more so because of this incident. They became aware that there was a human exploitation problem with sourcing cobalt from Congo, so they started researching LFP cells and now they're finally starting to use them. \n\nHave you heard about the children who are exposed to toxins in the Nigerian Oil Fields? Or how Nigeria had a civil war where thousands (possibly millions) of civilians died over control over those oil fields? It seems crazy that you would put forth a GM, a company whos cars are the very reason children in Nigeria continue to be hurt by oil, as a more ethical company than Tesla who is actively working to end its dependence on Cobalt.", "What capital? There is no capital in there besides plastic washbasins and some rudimentary shovels, hardly unlikely the warlords are doing it for them. Warlords do it for power, and having power is quite fun, they get to rape and kill as much as they desire, they also get to order other people around, and even access some luxuries. Also most importantly, by being the warlord, you are less likely to be rapped or ordered around.", "Those aren't socialistic practices. Socialism is a specific way of organizing the economy by using state control.\n\nThings done on behalf of the people by the state is not socialism. Regulation is not socialism. These are just basic functions of the state.\n\nCapitalism and Socialism are mutually exclusive and operate on a scale. Sure, you can be closer to the center, but you're still capitalist on one side, socialist on the other. \n\nSocialism, very specifically, is the abolition of private property, with the state taking command of industry. Your interpretarion is a common misnomer.", "How do they pay for guns? Bullets? How do they pay their soldiers? Food? \n\nDo you think they built a completely self sustaining economy and have no contact with anyone else?", "Yes that's true, I was using it in the common word kind of way, maybe not the literal definition.\n\nAnd from what I know of it, workers rights are a step towards socialism. Aka, capitalism with traits from socialism, they can be partly mixed. \n\nBut my point still stands, Captialism neese to be shackled to avoid slavery.", "That's hardly capital, innit?", "you sound so fragile, youre shilling for the chinese whove fucked over a majority of the world and for what, oh youre one of those people that are too much up their own ass to see the wrong chinas done and are blaming \"the filthy whites\" just because your country is some shithole 3rd world country, enjoy your block mcdipshit.", "… what do you think they use in exchange for those goods and services?", "Nissan Leafs up until 2017 used zero Cobalt (Manganese instead), it was only added at that point to that EV for increased range. Cobalt isn't necessary but adds energy density and also makes the chemistry less stable i.e. battery fires.", "> Again I'm not saying that Tesla does not have problems. \n\nRight but you're claiming they're the most ethical. \n\nChild exploitation has been around for decades. It's been reported on for years. You can't pretend that Tesla just found out about it. \n\nOther car companies are switching to other battery types. They're moving away from fossil. \n\nSo why is Tesla the most ethical?\n\n\n\n>It seems crazy that you would put forth a GM, a company whos cars are the very reason children in Nigeria continue to be hurt by oil, as a more ethical company than Tesla who is actively working to end its dependence on Cobalt.\n\n\nSo you really think Tesla just found out about children working in Africa?\n\nYou're criticising GM for using oil? \n\nBut Tesla using child labour is the most ethical?", "Could someone explain why exactly we can't mine cobalt ourselves? Is Congo actually just the only place on earth with usable deposits of cobalt ore? Because it seems hard to believe that mining it by hand, by children is the most economical option. Just the optics alone for tech companies is such a gigantic hit, you would think there at least would be some mining companies starting mining it outside of Congo.", "Lol, show me a capitalist country that doesn't have inefficiencies and state corruption.", "Again, that's not socialism. Yes, if a state has free market trade, then it's capitalist. If an industry is dictated by the state, it's socialist. \n\nYou know there is a joke about people thinking socialism is when we build roads, right? It's a literal meme. The state doesn't build roads or hold exclusive control over that industry. They contract that out to private entites whom they pay. It's not socialism.\n\nSocialism is a specific way of organizing industry and economy. China hasn't been socialist economically since the 70's. (Though, they're returning to that now, so we'll see how that goes). \n\nRight or left is irrelevant too this. They both commonly misunderstand it.", "Sure. Corruption exists. It's better than complete economic collapse. Name a economically sucessful socialist state.", "It is socialism, who do you think pays for the contractors?\n\nDrumroll\n\nTax payers!\n\n The subject is far more nuanced than capitalism vs socialism anyway. \n\nYou can't have any system that treats it's people fairly without socialist policies. \n\nEither way, we are way the fuck off topic and I think I've talked about this enough.", "Ah, you're just here to pick fights. Got it!", "Historically, Companies would only remain profitable for about 40 years. That was the great means to curb monopolies 'naturally'.\n\nNow, corporate diversification of industry creates these entites with significantly too much wealth and influence. This isn't the result of capitalism, but the legal way these companies are constructed. Corpotisim is a danger that we need to address. It's more akin to fascism in my opinon.\n\nBut I do agree that regulation is needed for Capitalism. But that is its own set of problems with regulatory capture. No balancing act is perfect, its all gives and takes and comprimise.", "> This is where Kony and General Butt Naked operate.\n> It is literally Kony’s fault, along with other local warlords. \n\nUganda, Liberia, Congo... all cities in the country of Africa I guess.", "Now you call it goods and services? Just a moment ago you called it capital...\n\nI really don't see the point you are getting, warlords enslave local villagers to work on mines, none of them own, and use minerals extracted from those mines, to get guns and food to continue their warlording operations. Those minerals are then used in all of the world regardless of that country's ideology.\n\nYour argument went from, this exploitation is caused by capitalism because capitalist countries buy those minerals, when I showed you that all countries regardless of ideology buy those minerals. Your argument changed to say it's capitalism's fault because what matters is what's happening in those mines and how they shouldn't be owned by corporations but by his workers, when I showed you no one owns those mines, you change your point once again to say that it's capitalism's fault because warlords engage in barter trading.\n\n\nSomething tells me you aren't talking in good faith", "it's really good to know that other systems don't exploit people like capitalism does", "Who buys the cobalt?", "Yeah actually, maybe I'm being naive, but I think that Tesla initially signed up to just make eclectic cars. They sourced batteries from Panasonic and it was Panasonic who would have know about how Cobalt was sourced. Did Tesla know before hand, maybe, but what could they do if every battery supplier used cobalt? It's not like you can go anywhere else with your business.\n\nTesla didn't start making batteries themselves until they made the gigafactory. The gigafactory didn't even break ground until 2014 - I don't know when they actually started making batteries there, but I'm guessing not until 2015 or 2016. So it's not crazy for me to think that they didn't look out how the hamburger got made until around that time (i.e. where Panasonic was sourcing it's cobalt). \n\nI remember when this video was first posted back in 2017 and I remember tesla putting out a press release like a week later that they were already planning to move away from cobalt, and I remember at the time that they immediately took steps to source cobalt from non-child-labor sources in the meantime. \n\nNow maybe this did not happen. Maybe the way the cobalt mining industry is run it was just impossible for Tesla to successfully divest itself from child labor and keep the lights on. But here they are 4 years later keeping their commitment to move away from cobalt. \n\nIf you were in Tesla's shoes, if you were the CEO, what would you have done differently?", "I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of your statement re: inefficiencies and corruption.\n\nHowever, there are plenty of successful democratic socialist countries. Pretty much all of the Scando countries to name a few.", ">cap·i·tal1\n/ˈkapədl/\n\n>wealth in the form of money or other assets owned by a person or organization or available or contributed for a particular purpose such as starting a company or investing.\n\nYou seem confused, I’ve made one point: \n\nYou use capital (money) in exchange for goods and services. \n\nWarlords enslave local villagers to work in mines, to acquire goods (cobalt) which they then exchange for capital, which they will then use to exchange for goods and services (bullets and soldiers).", "none of what the \"bot\" said and shiftyusmc are similar. I think you're grasping", "Their own overseas territories are one of the poorest regions on earth", "Money used to buy goods and services like food isn't capital. Only money that is invested in the production of goods and services is capital.\n\nI really don't see your point. Using money = capitalism? Is that it?", "> They sourced batteries from Panasonic and it was Panasonic who would have know about how Cobalt was sourced. \n\nSorry but that's a really bad excuse. \n\nHow would they know? Children working in mines has been reported on for decades. You really can't pretend they had no clue it was happening. \n\n\n>Did Tesla know before hand, maybe, but what could they do if every battery supplier used cobalt? It's not like you can go anywhere else with your business.\n\n\nSo they knew children were being exploited but ignored it? And you're saying they're the most ethical car company? \n\n\n>So it's not crazy for me to think that they didn't look out how the hamburger got made until around that time (i.e. where Panasonic was sourcing it's cobalt).\n\n\nSo you're really trying to say Tesla, a billion dollar company didn't know where cobalt came from or how it was mined? Come on...\n\n\n\n>I remember when this video was first posted back in 2017 and I remember tesla putting out a press release like a week later that they were already planning to move away from cobalt, and I remember at the time that they immediately took steps to source cobalt from non-child-labor sources in the meantime.\n\nChildren being used to mine cobalt was reported on back in 2009. \n\nSo Tesla waited 8 years to announce moving away from cobalt. \n\n\n\nThis idea that Tesla only just found is hilarious. \n\nYou really don't think that works, do you?\n\n\nAnd you're complaining about GM using oil?", "Do they use the bullets and soldiers to continue forcing people to work in the mines? Would you not consider that money to be invested into their business? \n\nWhat do you think they use the guns and soldiers for?", "The follow-up:\n\n[Revisiting the cobalt-mining boys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T___azqvPKI)", "So using money=capitalism?", "I dated a woman from Guadeloupe, a place I had never even heard of before meeting her. She told some horrifying stories about what France was doing to them. I'll never forget when she told me when she was growing up there, basic stuff like toothbrushes were about 7 times more expensive there than France. How France has managed to keep its image clean is beyond my comprehension.", "so what are we supposed to do? stop using smartphones? go there and take their place? send them money?", "Maybe the impulse to BE capitalistic might not be liberal, but once you get fat by profiting off of the capitalistic impulse, many people become liberal af because nobody likes going it alone with their feelings", "oh sure. Let's try that whole communism thing. Let's put the power to control the entire nation in the hands of a Politburo, a privy council, maybe, like the Small Council, then they can make the decisions that affect the entire country. I mean, they know what's best. For YOu. And for me? Right? Right? Amirite?", "Yes, I think that's how things went down, and that's why I wrote what I wrote. As I said, maybe I'm naive, and you're welcome to laugh (I don't think reporting of child labor necessarily means a car company is aware of it). If you find a source that disproves my thinking (I.e. that Tesla was aware of this in 2009, etc) I'm happy to change my mind.\n\nAnd yes, I think that if your only option to end the worlds dependence on oil, an industry that already hurts children, is to enter a different industry that also hurts children, change that industry so that it no longer hurts children, and then kill the first industry, that is morally acceptable. Now there are two less industries that hurt children, especially as opposed to GM's solution of hurting children forever. I genuinely think that makes Tesla more ethical. If you don't agree, please tell me how you would have run Tesla differently (this is like the third or fourth time I've asked).", "whoever downvoted this needs to get a life. You really fucking do. You have no idea what actual communism is like. You should go to China, go to Africa, see what actually happens in those places. Communism doesn't exist. It's actually capitalism with a different color hat and flag. And far fewer people at the top.", ">There is no capital in there besides plastic washbasins and some rudimentary shovels,\n\nThere is nothing there because people took everything.", "Or better yet, let's discuss Welsh coal mining in the 1800's, Kentucky coal mining, black lung, the development of rail because of coal mining, etc., etc., etc.,", "Because the same people who profit off thar exploitation use that money to fund their press outfits which never talk about the exploitation.", "No, but using money to invest in good and services for your (immoral or illegal) business is though.", "strangely, have to agree with this. If a corporation were to come in and take this operation over, they would probably kill whoever opposed them then proceed with capital and infrastructure that organized the site for maximum profit. It wouldn't change the game much for the workers, but the process would be less human labor intensive", "So investing=capitalism?", "I guess my point is that human beings have not figured out ethical consumption at all. You appear to be blaming capitalism, at least in this instance, for the slavery we just witnessed but it exists independent of capitalism. It predates capitalism. Cap bad, com bad, what else? It's all bad. We're bad.", "Then what do the people in Congo do for money? It doesn't appear that anyone is forcing them to labor, they just don't have any better options.", "… if the investment is done by private individuals for profit and not the state, then yes?", "You just showed that you have never been to or even spoken to anyone from Africa\n\nHow about you educate yourself on why there is no infrastructure to refine it into cobalt sulphate and oxides or to manufacture the end user product in DRC. Massive government corruption that only looks at short term gain, is the main reason the populous doesn't benefit from the resources extracted. \n\nDuring Joseph Kabila and his fathers reign they have become billionaires while the population live in squalor. The corruption is so prolific that kick backs for contracts and concessions is standard practice now.\n\nThe corruption has filtered down so much that everyone with a modicum of power are now looking for a quick buck, from impromptu \"toll gates\" on roads authorized by the local leader, the traffic police who make 80% of their income \"informally\" from unjustified stops, even the technicians responsible for the electrical infrastructure demand payment from residents for repairs.\n\nI know people like you from the first world , prefer those 1 sentence solutions that fix all the problems but ultimately reality on the ground is that it is not that simple. This is why westerners often come across as uninformed with regards to Africa and generally have no idea what they are talking about.", ">Higher prices just means they're trying to protect their profits and pass the cost to their customers, instead of taking it from their profits.\n\nI don't think you have a solid grasp on the rough figures of how businesses operate. Most businesses don't actually operate on a terribly high amount of net profit. And labour can get really expensive, really quickly.\n\nYou're behaving as though \"profit\" is this bottomless pool from which money can be pulled out. But it's like...11%, probably. IE If the cost of mining cobalt goes up by more than 11%, the company would be losing money if it didn't charge more for it.\n\nLabour costs in mining are probably around 25%. Now, I have no idea how child slavery business costs work&mdash;presumably their share of labour costs is much smaller&mdash;but if you imagined that they worked the same way that other businesses did, and they currently are paying labour 1 GBP/day, how much can they increase their pay without increasing prices before the business is losing money? Seemingly to about 1.44 GBP/day.\n\nHow much does it cost to have \"properly regulated, safe, well paid work\"? Probably more than 1.44 GBP/day.", "Lol, what a ridiculous notion, in all forms of government, present and ancient, there are and were individuals investing to profit from that investment. Your point after all is everything is capitalism", ">As I said, maybe I'm naive, and you're welcome to laugh (I don't think reporting of child labor necessarily means a car company is aware of it). \n\nSo you're expecting people to believe that Tesla an electric car company had no idea where cobalt was sourced from... \n\nHah. Yes I am absolutely laughing at that excuse. \n\n\n\nSo you're ok with Tesla getting in an industry that hurts children. \n\nBut when GM does it's bad. \n\n\n\n\n>And yes, I think that if your only option to end the worlds dependence on oil, an industry that already hurts children, is to enter a different industry that also hurts children, change that industry so that it no longer hurts children, and then kill the first industry, that is morally acceptable. \n\n\nThey're not changing the industry though. Cobalt will still be mined. They're not shutting down cobalt mining. \n\nYou're trying to justify Tesla's actions by tanging yourself in loops. \n\n>If you don't agree, please tell me how you would have run Tesla differently (this is like the third or fourth time I've asked).\n\nHah. I've asked you many, many questions which you've just outright ignored. \n\n\nI never said I'd run it differently or what I'd do.\n\n\nYou're the one saying Tesla is the most ethical car company, and then making lots and lots of excuses to overlook their behaviour. \n\n\nGM using oil? Bad. Think of the children!!!\n\n\nTesla using cobalt from an industry with child labour? Well it's for the greater good. \n\nLet's just ignore the fact that Tesla isn't some charity doing this out of good will. It's selling cars.", ">The reasons firms are not doing this is manifold, from political instability in the region to the nature of the deposits, location, taxes, difficulty in securing permits, etc…\n\n...Reasons that probably aren't going away in the DRC any time soon, though?", ">\tcap·i·tal·ism\n/ˈkapədlˌizəm/\n Learn to pronounce\nnoun\nan economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.\n“an era of free-market capitalism”\n\nWho owns the profit? \n\nHow do YOU define capitalism?", "Listen we need batteries for electric cars.", "A simple Google search will show the long range version of Teslas still use Cobalt.", "Or better. There is now a spotlight being shon on the problem", "It sucks but whats the alternative? no job and starve to death? i guarantee those kids eat more than most because they're useful.", "That's a strawman argument. \n\nI'm saying that tesla enters an industry - batteries. Batteries use cobalt today because lithium ion designs without cobalt were not dense enough - that is where the majority of the supply of cobalt goes (at least I think - it may not be a majority, but it's a lot). If Tesla produces LFP cells that don't use cobalt but still work as well, both they and others will use it because why wouldn't you. No demand (or at least reduced demand) means fewer to hopefully no child workers in the cobalt industry. If Tesla succeeds at pushing the car industry to use batteries instead of oil, now there are two industries that are not hurting children. This seems pretty simple to me. One company is hurting children (GM) with no plans to change. One company (Tesla) is actively changing to avoid hurting children and is forcing the other to change as well. That seems more ethical to me.\n\nI never said Tesla was a charity. But Elon Musk could have created another payment company like paypal, or some other internet company, but he wanted to make the world better and chose electric cars. If you want to criticize me for admiring that and for admiring Tesla and call me names, that's up to you. That doesn't make me wrong.\n\nWhat this seems to boil down to is that you don't think Telsa is the most ethical (or even a ethical) car company that exists today and I do. No matter how much you laugh I believe that Telsa was started with good intentions and did not knowingly enter markets with the intention to exploit children - if one day there is a source that proves that they knowingly exploited children and did not care that would change my opinion. But nothing you say without actual sources is going to change my mind.", "this is why i own a fairphone. so stuff like this can be remedied.", "The nordic system is distinctly capitalist. Bernie claiming they where socialist is a misnomer. Norways prime minister stated how he disliked how his country was called socialist in the west when they're patently a free market. Welfare programs =/= socialism. They're common in socialist economies, because the entire point of a centerly planned economy is to provide those services. But they're not exclusive, right? The nordic system is welfare capitalism.\n\nThe differences between the inefficiencies and corruption in free market economies relative to planned ones is orders of magnitude. Because they still exist in Capitalism doesn't mean they're near the levels demonstrated in planned economies.", "Can you please give additional details on this?", "> One company is hurting children (GM) with no plans to change.\n\nLast I heard GM were moving to electric and are investing heavily in battery tech. \n\n\n>One company (Tesla) is actively changing to avoid hurting children and is forcing the other to change as well. That seems more ethical to me.\n\nGM is also changing so that would but it on the same ethical footing.\n\n>If Tesla produces LFP cells that don't use cobalt but still work as well, both they and others will use it because why wouldn't you. \n\nI'm sure many other car companies will make LFP cells. \n\n>No matter how much you laugh I believe that Telsa was started with good intentions and did not knowingly enter markets with the intention to exploit children - if one day there is a source that proves that they knowingly exploited children and did not care that would change my opinion.\n\n\nRight so you actually believe Tesla had no clue where cobalt comes from in the world despite it being widely reported in for 10+ years. \n\n\n\nlol Wow. \n\nIt's amazing what you'll turn a blind eye to while criticising others.", "I ain’t feeding those kids so I can’t complain.", "Slavery is illegal in the US.\n\nPrisoners get paid adequately their cost of living is pretty high, though.", "> vastly expand the use of capital punishment\n\nSo, you want more people to be killed by the death penalty for committing small crimes like petty robbery and assault?\n\n> do away with the wasteful extensive appeals process\n\nSo, if an innocent person is accused and wrongfully committed of a crime, they shouldn't be allowed to appeal?", "oh god, I just hit his profile, he's serious", "Right, but heres the difference.\n\nIn socialism, the government uses that money to build the industry that makes roads. Private competition is not allowed to exist. It must construct the infrastructure on a nation wide scale as its the only industry that can build roads. (Therefore controls the prices)\n\nIn capitalism, the government uses that money to hire a regional contracting firm that builds roads. And bridges. and installs power cables and sensors for traffic lights. Prices are based on their value on the market. \n\nNow when people say mixed, they mean the government builds its own company while competing with private companies. But relatively, this is significantly more capitalist a measure than socialist. Complete control of the economy is required for a true socialist economy. So while libraries and healthcare and other welfare systems are a product of socialism, they're not exclusive to that system. If the government builds schools, as an industry, but also private schools exist that compete on the market, it's not socialist.\n\nBut anyway, I think you're right. We're on different pages. Thanks for the gracious conclusion there even if it started heated.", "GM famously gave up on Electric Cars in the 90s - They only created the Volt (and now other EVs) when Tesla proved the Market wanted EVs with the production of the Model S (and now the Model 3). Tesla pushed them to electrify then and continues to do so now. I don't hear GM making any announcements about LFP cells, but now that Tesla has I suspect they will follow, but only because Tesla actually cares about trying to make things better - something they clearly do not.\n\nKeep saying \"lol wow\" if makes you feel better. You keep criticizing me and saying things like I'm turning a blind eye, but you continue to fail to provide sources that support your viewpoint. So I respectfully disagree with your viewpoint. Have a good one.", "I think the disingenuous part is saying its China and only China when it’s every major country. And china themselves have been exploited by the west. \n\nMost major tech companies aren’t Chinese, it’s not that people are afraid of China I mean China gets criticised every day, it’s that people don’t say anything because major countries benefit of it.", "They just want to criticize, coming up with reasonable propositions and solutions would require more brain cells then they can muster.", "So US runs the congo, and US is the only country that uses lipo batteries? Sorry the US doesn't straight invade/conquer congo to end its slavery. Is that the solution proposed?", "Yep, cobalt now makes a phone cost $2k to make? Welp, here comes billions into RND for a new battery or at least one that significantly reduces the amount of cobalt needed", "Everyone benefits from it, but not everyone has cobalt mines in the DRC. China has almost all of them, and this is how China runs pretty much all of its international businesses in poor countries.", "🎶 If I only had a brain.... 🎶", "This is from 2017 and telsa no longer uses cobalt in their batteries but go ahead and hate", "Alex Crawford is the best in the business right now.", "What's dumb is it's just an overall advancement problem. US 100 years ago was using child labor not much differently. Over time (key point here) US society in general came together and thought it was a bad thing; helped by technology improving such that it didn't need to happen either.\n\nIn time these places will advance, eventually, and get to the same point.", "\"YoUVE nEVeR bEeN to AfrIcA. ThEre JuST InferIor, BaCKwaRDs aNd ReTaRded\"\n\nok then where'd my ship go all those times you fucking obnoxious twat. Like I'd like to know where the fuck I was at if I wasnt in africa. How about we talk about the IMF and colonialism if we wanna talk about corruption. Fucking cunt.\n\nHow about that time i went to Bangladesh. I guess that Bangladeshi 13 year old wasn't crying because the company I work for was making him paint bulkheads in a 130 deg engine room and he didnt have any fucking shoes on! I guess none of that shit happened because some internet edge lord.", "> I don't hear GM making any announcements about LFP cells,\n\nThey announced a new facility to develop new battery tech. \n\n\n> Tesla actually cares about trying to make things better\n\nTesla cares about selling cars. \n\nThey're legally obligated to create profit. \n\nYou seem to be attributing this altruistic idea Tesla as doing things for the right reason and then when it's GM they just want to sell cars?\n\nThey're both interested in selling cars and making money. \n\n\n>but you continue to fail to provide sources that support your viewpoint. \n\n\nWhen you claim silly stuff like Tesla don't know where cobalt comes it's like... where do you even start with that?\n\nI don't think you're here in good faith when you're making silly claims like that.", "Bingo.", "It’s not the warlords fault. It’s Western demand and governments permitting entities to access their own markets.\n\nLegal person capital punishment is actually possible. An entity caught dealing in outlawed ways could have it’s license to operate (which is a boon rather than a right) revoked.\n\nBeing de-registered/de-incorporated kills the company and prevents further breaches.", "Dude you want me to prove a negative, come on. Do you even hear yourself? Also you reak of whataboutism. Your defense of GM is disingenuous - there is something else going on in your defense of GM I just don't know what it is.", "That's how ridiculous your comments are though. \n\n\"find me a source on Tesla knowing about exploitation of children then I'll change my mind\" \n\n\n\nAnd yet you provide no sources for anything you've said. \n\nIt's \"err I remember Tesla releasing a press release in 2017 about moving from cobalt\".", "That's why I only switch phones every 2-3 years instead of yearly lol", "Yeah it's crazy I choose to assume people do the things they say they do until I have proof they lie. Maybe that's naive but I guess I'm an optimist. Sorry your worldview is that bleak.\n\nI don't need to provide sources to take someone at their word. And you don't need to provide sources proving anything. You just need to provide sources if you want to change my mind. \n\nI certainly have no expectation of you changing your mind at this point, because you clearly want to assume the worst of every company.", "[The nordic model isnt socialist. ](https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders) Welfare on behalf of the state isn't socialism. \n\nYou can't honestly imply that the state having an \"exception\" for slavery is at the fault of capitalism? How do you arrive at that conclusion? How is the state getting away a power the fault of liberalisim? (Outside not having tried hard enough to wrestle it away from the state?)\n\nAnd which socities actually did outlaw slavery, historically...?", "https://www.cbi.eu/news/european-due-diligence-act", "This must be that invisible hand of the market at work I keep hearing about.", "Modern globalized economies exploiting laws of other nations wide scale is a relatively modern practice.", "Yeah, Tesla's CEO just tweets out support for far-right military coups in countries that happen to have tons of cobalt and lithium. No big deal, Tesla are the good guys - your link to their website proves it!", ">Yeah it's crazy I choose to assume people do the things they say they do until I have proof they lie.\n\n>Sorry your worldview is that bleak.\n\n\nI've pointed out they have to make profit and they're not some altruistic company. They've profited from children working in mines. I know you want to make excuses for that though. \n\nI do wonder how the children who've been injured or even killed would feel about that sacrifice. \n\n>I certainly have no expectation of you changing your mind at this point, because you clearly want to assume the worst of every company.\n\nWhile you believe just about everything Musk tells you and will even spend time defending a company which doesn't care about you as though it's Superman here to save the day.", "[Eric X. Li: A tale of two political systems](https://youtu.be/s0YjL9rZyR0)", "Elon musk income.video", "The difference is that cobalt in batteries can be recovered and recycled, whereas as a catalyst it is “used up” (although I don’t know why/how, I hope it isn’t spewed out of tailpipes.", "Look if having corrupt and retarded leadership is what makes you a third world country, america would never have risen to power. stupidly corrupt leaders are pretty much part of the human condition for everybody. Africa is no different from any other place i've been to in that regard. \n\nbut like here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFHd7LMaK4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFHd7LMaK4)\n\nDude got killed over these loans that the IMF would give countries, basically in exchange for their independence and sovereignty. Part of how the loans where repaid meant preventing their governments from instituting healthcare or education programs. Literally taking money from the poorest people on earth and giving it to the richest. IMF, being a part of American foreign policy, did not want anything but neoliberal policy, austerity, and cheap cheap labor.", "You don't know me /u/winkwinknudge_nudge or what I believe aside from what I've told you.\n\nAll you seem capable of doing is criticizing those that are trying to make things better.", "> You don't know me /u/winkwinknudge_nudge or what I believe aside from what I've told you.\n> \n> \n\n And here we are again. Your quite comfortable in saying my views but don't like it done to yourself.\n\nIt seem a tad hypocritical of you.\n\n\n>All you seem capable of doing is criticizing those that are trying to make things better.\n\n\n\nNope. I went against your comment that they moved away from cobalt starting in 2017.\n\nYou've then spent countless comments boiling down to \"you just hate tesla. You're being paid to dislike them.\"\n\n\n>Yeah it's crazy I choose to assume people do the things they say they do until I have proof they lie.\n\nEven more funny when you keep claiming I had a narrative for criticising Tesla, or other reasons to.", "[Heh, gotcha](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/259/257/342.png)", "You're over complicating it. You're talking about some ideal system. These people live in the opposite of ideal circumstances, so you have to think more along the lines of how the economic system functions when far from ideal. These people would still be slaves in that system because it would still be a terrible system. You would just be swapping one kind of terrible for another.", "I said \"seem\" - maybe you're a better person in real life, but if this is your actual personality - yikes.\n\nI've already told you I'm not a Tesla-fanatic, but the mere fact that I think Tesla is a good company making the world better apparently means I'm a zealot and I put the company on a pedestal, despite that I've acknowledged many times the company needs to improve in some areas - like how it treats its workers. \n\nYou have approached this whole conversion completely disingenuously from the beginning. You have no respect for people who hold genuine differences of opinion than you, so as I said - yikes.", "> I said \"seem\" - maybe you're a better person in real life, but if this is your actual personality - yikes.\n> \n> \n\nFrom the person who complained about semantics and making things personal this is hilarious.\n\n\nYour whole comment is you claiming you have these values and then you just roll over on them. \n\n> I choose to assume people do the things they say they do until I have proof they lie.\n\nWas claiming I was probably paid by a PR firm. That I had other reasons for disliking Tesla. \n\nThen claimed I had reasons for liking GM.\n\n\nYou don't stick to these ideas you claim.\n\n\n>You have no respect for people who hold genuine differences of opinion than you, so as I said - yikes.\n\nI have respect for people with different views.\n\n\nWhen you try and fall over yourself making excuses for Tesla and cobalt mining? No.\n\n\nPeople who make excuses for companies and exploiting people - yikes.", "Even if it meant that many couldn't afford luxury technology like the latest flagship phone, I still don't understand how people could be okay with it.\n\nI would gladly live in the stone age if it meant a perfectly fair and ethical society.... Man now I just want to tell stories until the sun comes down and sleep next to an open fire knowing that if the fire goes out I will be eaten by a wolf.", "Holy shit this whole comment is full of yank brain worms", "Thank you so much.", "[HUGE FAQ](https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/socialism_faq.md#socialism-faq)\n\nEdit: [For the I cant read crowd](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEHYeeRCtVI)", "Your hatred of Tesla and defense of GM is irrational and I genuinely suspect you have ulterior motives - maybe it's not because you're paid, but that would make a lot of sense. Maybe you have family that worked for GM, maybe you have stock in GM, but even if you dislike Tesla because you don't trust any company it makes little sense why you defend GM the way you do.\n\nAlso say you respect people with different views and the very next sentence you say \"When you try and fall over yourself making excuses for Tesla and cobalt mining? No.\" So you don't actually respect people with other views - or at least you selectively respect other views.\n\nYeah I think my \"yikes\" is a bit more appropriate here. (Also, do you have any thing other than \"no u\" in your comeback arsenal? Nevermind, please don't answer I'm really tired of listening to you.)", "Don't bother with these people. All they know is that \"capitalism is evil and the source of all bad things in the world.\"", "Show me a socialist one that doesn't have it much worse.", "> What capital? There is no capital in there besides plastic washbasins and some rudimentary shovels, \n\nThis is literally a thread about a highly profitable resource being extracted. If you think whoever is in charge around that area isn't getting a cut of that business...", ">Your hatred of Tesla and defense of GM is irrational and I genuinely suspect you have ulterior motives - maybe it's not because your paid, but that would make a lot of sense. Maybe you have family that worked for GM, maybe you have stock in GM, but even if you dislike Telsa because you don't trust any company it makes little sense why you defend GM the way you do.\n\n\n\n-\n\n\n>I choose to assume people do the things they say they do until I have proof they lie.\n\n\n\nSo where's the evidence I'm lying? \n\nAlso, I don't hate Tesla. You've been trying that from the very beginning and it's just silly.\n\n> it makes little sense why you defend GM the way you do.\n\nI've defended GM? I said they're investing in battery tech and that they're also moving to electric? \n\n\nThat's not some big defence is it. \n\n\n\n>Also say you respect people with different views and the very next senetence you say \"When you try and fall over yourself making excuses for Tesla and cobalt mining? No.\" So you don't actually respect people with other views - or at least you selectively respect other views.\n\nI don't find making excuses for bad practices deserving of respect. Of course it's selective.\n\n\n>Yeah I think my \"yikes\" is a bit more appropriate here. \n\n\n\nI didn't imagine you'd have issue with it now after all the hoops you've jumped through trying to justify it.\n\n\nFrom the person who complained about me not knowing you and not making things personal it's interesting how quick you are to judge others and make them personal. You seem to throw your values out of the window very quickly when it suits you.", "If you call yourself a socialist and think \"regulated capitalism\" is the best path, you aren't a socialist. You're a Social Democrat.", ">Global corporations don’t like this situation. They would be much happier if a corporation like Rio Tinto moved in with heavy equipment. They would extract much more cobalt. Global corporations can’t operate in Congo, because it is home to numerous warlords and militias. This is where Kony and General Butt Naked operate.\n>\n>Congo has a terrible legacy of genocidal colonialism, and multi generational trauma but this is now one of the places on Earth with the least connection to the international economy. This is happening because of local violence. It is literally Kony’s fault, along with other local warlords. Corporations want stability and infrastructure, not this.\n\nCorporations can choose not to support this. The way they get their materials is of no consequence to them. \n\nIf it was such a big deal, where are the press conferences? Why do they continue to hand them money? \n\nDon't make excuses for rich cocksucker billionaires.", "Fuck off lib", "You deal only in strawman arguments and whataboutisms - essentially you only argue in bad faith so I'm not really going bother responding anymore. If anyone should ever bother to read this thread that's pretty clear at this point.", "Ah, that’s where your Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 5, and iPhone come from.", ">far worse ways than the western powers ever did.\n\nRead up on King Leopold II of Belgium. I'm not sure far worse is possible.", "EvErYtHiNg BaD iS cApiTaLiSm", "It goes way deeper than that. Those government officials are put in place and held in place through powerful interventions by Western governments.\n\nEdit: if you doubt this, have a look at this [recent zoom call](https://youtu.be/e4A8Ot5zpgg) involving Western diplomats conspiring with a terrorist organisation to overthrow Ethiopia's democratically-elected Prime Minister, right after doing the same in Sudan.", "A lot of people seem to think that you can boycott people out of poverty.", "Sigh. \n\nOnce again ignoring questions and trying to deflect. This has been the very case from the first comment in this thread. \n\nYou've shown time and time again you're a hypocrite. Making things personal, judging others and then complaining when you're on the receiving end. \n\nThis double standard you have for yourself seem to lend it self to how you view Tesla. That's a fairly amusing overlap. \n\nYou seem to hold yourself to a far lower standard than what you expect from others.\n\nYikes.", "Hehe, socialism!!! Just like a system where we have a tax funded military, public roads, schools, etc. Or as the new republicans would say, radical communism.", "You’re delusional if you think the type of economics matter here. Matter of fact is, a large population group (aka any country) requiring resources, ends up with bad working conditions if you trace the source deep enough.", "The middle men can make huge, huge amounts. A little regulation can help give the miners more and the middlemen less whilst keeping the final cost the same.", "We are going in circles. As I said you deal only in strawman arguments and whataboutisms and I'm not interested in continuing a discussion with you at this point.", "lmao", "litterally said didn't eat for 2 days and he was working under treat on video", "> This is stupidly false. As long as you have two specialists each capable of producing what the other needs, they'll trade for the specialized goods, and that's capitalism. That's it.\n\nTwo specialists can trade each other goods under literally any economic system. So no. This is not it.\n\nCapitalism is private ownership of the means of production/capital. First line of the wiki page for christ's sake.", "Yes, you've just said that...", "Remember when the USSR went from agricultural backwater to superpower in 30 years under state control? Remember when your shithole country literally had a war over owning human beings?", "please yes lets stop using smartphones. only fix computer. smartphone are shit, intrusive, expensives, overwhelming and take an hold of your life. no smartphones", "Oh wow you actually listened. K bye.", "Well you've said it several times already but you just kept going. It's hard to know when you're being genuine. \n\nI guess you're one of those people that has to get the last comment in or something?", "Holy shit you're serious.\n\nRemember when the USSR collapsed? Remember [dekulakization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization)? Remember the accompanying famine? Remember when Mao Zedong [butchered his own people?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward) and hey, another famine. \n\nYou're one of those dudes from the UK obsessed with inferiority complex over \"yanks\". \"Better be unironically communist! That'll show those yanks!\" lmao.", "[Dekulakization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization) \n \n >Dekulakization (Russian: раскулачивание, raskulachivanie; Ukrainian: розкуркулення, rozkurkulennia) was the Soviet campaign of political repressions, including arrests, deportations, or executions of millions of kulaks (prosperous peasants) and their families in the 1929–1932 period of the first five-year plan. To facilitate the expropriations of farmland, the Soviet government portrayed kulaks as class enemies of the Soviet Union. More than 1. 8 million peasants were deported in 1930–1931.\n \n[Great Leap Forward](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward) \n \n >The Great Leap Forward (Second Five Year Plan) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) was an economic and social campaign led by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) from 1958 to 1962. Chairman Mao Zedong launched the campaign to reconstruct the country from an agrarian economy into a communist society through the formation of people's communes. Mao decreed that efforts to multiply grain yields and bring industry to the countryside should be increased.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Every manufacturer is seeking to drop it one way or another. Currently it is projected that solid state batteries will finally arrive in 2025.", "No, I'm not. I don't think it's the best form of government. As I said, I am a socialist. However, I think it's a nessecary stepping stone on the path to socialism. Don't assume you know what I think or believe. You obviously don't.", "Blacks exploiting blacks... Wonder why I haven't seen this on the news (queue the willy wanka meme)", "It's modern day because it's happening today.", "Inferiority complex? Over a country that can't even figure out healthcare and basic workers rights? That literally has kids shooting up schools and cops killing people every 5 minutes? Inferiority complex suggests there's something remotely admirable about the US. There isn't. Not one thing. Name one thing other people should admire that isn't geographic or fucking stolen.", "Maybe I can get someone to question their position.\n\nI know, a pipe dream.", "When someone is arguing in bad faith - yep. Bye!", "I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the dudes comment.", "Read theory. Regulated capitalism isn't a stepping stone, it's a concession.", "Absolutely. The sheer amount of of bad faith, sealioning and hypocritical behaviour from you has been astounding.\n\nGiving me a \"yikes\" for not respecting opinions while saying I must be paid because I dislike tesla? Lol. Such a hypocrite. \"Do as I say not as a I do\" comes to mind.\n\n\n\nHave a good one.", "You were merely deflecting and moving goalposts. FTFY.\n\nI'm all too familiar with what's going on here.", "I know. I can't say I don't respect you for putting in the effort.", "Nice to know no other regimes exploited cheap working power. Like Communism.... Oh wait", "musks parents mine atleast gives them tesla tshirts", "Holy shit you are obsessed. You can't stand it can you.\n\n> Name one thing other people should admire that isn't geographic or fucking stolen.\n\nLargest, wealthiest middle class in human history. (Though Canada recently supplanted wealthiest, 2nd place ain't bad.) More immigration than any other nation by orders of magnitude. More remittance than anyone every year since 1983.\n\nOk bye tankie. Good luck with the whole unironic communist schtick.", "Zaire has always been full of slavery, exploitation and violent subjugation, same before colonisation and afterwards.", "Moreover oil companies don't care for sugar, cotton, or various seeds that vastly exploit children.\n\nThey fund documentaries about what is a threat to them. Right now that's EVs. So you see a lot of fuss about Cobalt, while this has been going on for years with consumer electronics. But that was not a threat to them.\n\nIt doesn't change the fact that this is awful, but right now if people are really concerned about the welfare of children, acting against climate change is by far the biggest lever we can use.\n\nOil companies are glad to see public concern over cobalt mines, and not on the humanitarian disasters caused by oil exploitation, both as direct effect (geopolitical tensions and litteral wars for oil) and indirect effect (extreme weather events that primarily affect the poorest areas). For 100 children dying in cobalt mines, 100'000 have died/will die from the consequences of an oil-dependant society. But don't worry about that. Look at the starving kids in DRC.", "I may be misinterpreting your point but it sounds like you're suggesting that just because brutal child labor of this sort was the norm in the US (Britain was horrible during the industrial revolution too) and now it isn't, that means that it's just a part of society's evolution and things will get better in the future. \n\nYou're right that these things would be happening in the West too if we had not woken up as a society and decided that child labor and slavery are cruel and need to be banned. I'd bet that you'd soon have little children running around Amazon warehouses moving boxes if we removed laws prohibiting that. But in this case, the people suffering as a result of this exploitation clearly know it's bad (as did the slaves and chimney sweeps in the history of Western industry), and so do the people exploiting them -- ultimately it's the companies in developed countries that have created and profited off a market for this and to an extent, the consumers. Plus there is no guarantee that we'll have any change in the advancement of the region, especially if there is no economic incentive for that. The fact that it happened in the West is no guarantee for that happening in one of the most developmentally regressive regions on the planet. \n\nThe technology to make sure kids in DRC don't have to work like that to mine cobalt exists, and if it didn't, there is enough global wealth to ensure that it develops through innovation. But in our global capitalist system, companies are only incentivized to care for their profits, and that in itself isn't necessarily wrong -- this is the system that has lifted many millions out of poverty after all. \n\nHowever, if we don't have governmental regulations and oversight on how companies source their raw material, you'll have people looking to cut costs wherever possible and a supply chain complicated enough that those companies can claim ignorance. \n\nIt's a tricky situation unless we have some sort of global enforcement of labor laws. While in situations like cobalt mining, you only have a few places rich in these minerals so regulations may be easier to enforce, but with something like textiles, it's much harder as if you increase labor costs in one country by introducing better standards, companies will just look to other countries that don't have those standards.", "Yikes", "oh fuck off you pretentious first world piece of garbage, we who actually live and work here, see you as passers by who clutch their pearls and go home to a comfy place once you get what you wanted.\n\nWe are well aware that our problems start and end with our leaders and when they buckle so easily to you assholes and your blood money.\n\nWe don't need your bullshit, when you come here and screw us over at the behest of corrupt leaders, your company can fuck right off.\n\nBut no go on and continue exploiting because like your company, you are no different than every other entitled first world piece of garbage.", "22% of the world's prison population. You literally still have slave labour. You have immigration, and half your fucking country wants them shot, the other half pretend they don't because they like cheap labour.\n\nEnjoy overthrowing democratic governments and drone striking civilians.", "Yeah the last generation of this practice gave us these greats: \n\nopium wars 1 & 2\n\n\nThe Israel-Palestine border\n\n\nBanana Republics\n\n\nContinuous Enslavement of Haiti\n\n\n\nWhere generally we wouldn't bother to 'exploit' another nations laws; we would just take it over and install colonial or puppet governments to steal all their shit. Oh and enslave everyone in political opposition.", "China has been the biggest investor as of late with subprime loans and predatory agreements. I think you should be looking East.", "Someone’s already looking into batteries without cobalt. You’ll never guess who.", "There has never been a communist country. Communism entails a stateless, classless and post scarcity society, slavery or any oppressive hierarchy can not exist in communism. Marxist Leninist regimes are what you are referring to.\n\nEdit: just to clarify I am not a communist, it’s not possible for a large scale communist society to exist, I’m just telling you what communism actually entails", "Also remember that China own vast swathes of Africa and the huge numbers of rights to African mining. \n\nThey have paid for large amounts of infrastructure for African countries in exchange for rights for everything from oil to rare earth minerals. Often the value of the infrastructure they build is nowhere near the value of what comes out the ground, and most of it is built by Chinese labour rather than jobs for local people.\n\nI am sure there is also plenty of brown envelopes being changed hands in the background. \n\nQuite a lot of the African counties are corrupt beyond comprehension, bribes and backhanders are rife.\n\nI have a friend who works for a geological survey company who has worked in many African countries, as he told me, there is nothing in most countries that cannot be solved by a brown envelope stuffed with money. Not only that, some police will actively seek out foreigners to make up some bullshit charges in order to extract money. So much so, that on expeditions, they carry a slush fund to pay for them.", "Yep. Human history sort of sucks.", "Communism is a stateless, classless, and post scarcity society with no oppressive hierarchies, that has never been obtained and probably won’t ever be achieved on a large scale. Marxist Leninists aren’t communists no matter how much they LARP, if you replace the term communism with Marxist Leninism you would be right.", "TYL that \"moving away from\" takes time. \n\nIn the meantime, let's keep on burning gasoline, who cares about the tens of thousands of children who died after the US bombed water treatment plants in Irak ? Or the hundreds of thousands of children in Bangladesh suffering from extreme weather ? Or the tropical bands getting hotter and hotter and putting billions at risk in a few decades ? \n\nGood thing people focus on the children in DRC, so the oil companies can keep lining the pockets of their CEOs and shareholders.\n\nNot saying this isn't important, it absolutely does require regulation and tight control. \n\nBut let's not forget about the big issue here, that ExxonMobil, Shell and the likes are too happy to see you move your attention away from.", ">Corporations are simply the middle person in arranging the logistics of the material to fulfill the ones responsible for such a demand, us.\n\nIt's the Democratic Republic of the Congo, given the value that Colbalt has (it's around $80/Kg right now) companies would love to invest Billions of dollars to set up modern mining operations, but they can't because the entire region ruled by warlords.\n\nIf a company spends a billion dollars setting up a mine there is nothing to stop one of those warlords from just coming in and take it over.", "Elon knows a thing or two about enslaving Africans for mining.", "Atleast nobody with the means to change it. Moreover the ones with the means to change it are probably in some way either supported or benefitting from some aspect of their exploitation. It's a guarantee when you're looking things like rare metals because ANYONE with ANY expendable income has investments in tech.", "So very sad, a reminder that not everywhere in the world has laws to protect children :(", "Communist authoritarianism is an oxymoron. There is no state or class in a communist society. China was Marxist Leninist Maoist which is not even remotely communist no matter how much they LARP.", "Are there any real world examples of non corrupt governments? Is whole worlds population uneducated?", "You live in misery with no end to it in sight, so of course you should bring more people into the world just to suffer as much or more than you have, into an early grave.", "China was never communist or even socialist no matter how much they pretend. The state is supposed to gradually whither away under socialism until it is nonexistent and then communism is achieved. They weren’t capitalist during the Mao era but they have never been socialist or communist.", "So, you want the US to either send a strongly worded letter they may or may not lead to war.", "From a Western perspective, that's the obvious one. No doubt China is involved, but the reason you haven't heard as much about US involvement is the same reason you probably haven't been hearing about #nomore that's trending across Africa right now: propaganda and censorshop. US and European intervention in 'elections', terrorist coups, civil wars, etc is the very reason Africa is still poor and unstable.", "Yeah the Congo is in the top 5 most wealthy countries when it comes to resources within its borders, those resources only benefit the country when the country has functional institutions and low corruption. The Congo has been completely fucked over from it’s colonial history, it’s the worst affected area of European imperialism in Africa and the scars still show. It didn’t help that one of their only hopes Patrice Lumumba was assassinated by the Americans and Belgians.", "Democratic socialist countries that adopt socialist policies are, imo, preferable to capitalist countries that prioritize profits over human lives.\n\nConsidering that for the last decade in America, unpaid medical debt is the largest form of debt in collection agencies, you can keep your capitalism.", "In a report to expose child labor i don't think they're 100% honest or precise on when the last time he ate. Its probably an exaggeration, but even if it isn't, malnourished kids don't make very good miners. Kids are literally starving to death elsewhere in the country. Its awful but serving a purpose at least gets you enough rations so you wont die.", "I have read plenty. If I thought a violent overthrow would go better, I'd advocate that. I'm for whatever gets us to socialism.", "There was th I woman from North Korea. People asked her, \"Why does every put up with it ?\" She said, \" Just like the rest of the world, every is part of the coruption, \"", "As terrible this is, in a first World nation such as the US this is still going on. Not to an extent as this but WV still has huge problem with coal and the towns that surround those mines. If we can’t fix our own problems, these in other countries are going to go through with this for a much longer time then we want.", "Feel conflicted whenever I get samples to test from DRC. Feels like I'm part of some criminal enterprise.\n\nThese poor fucking people...", "Aka neither does capitalism", "A lot of companies did, the scale of the battery industry is far too big for manual labor to keep up. It's estimated that 17-40% of cobalt in DRC is mined in similar small mines (not necessarily as bad as those shown in the video), 60-83% is industrial. Industrial mines ain't no saints, but it's still a much better way than this. And their share is slowly but steadily growing - mostly because of the Chinese, making enormous investments into a risky but profitable country. A dangerous way to go about foreign relations, but it's paying off. The DRC supplies over 70% of world's cobalt, and most of it goes to China.", "The ancient Egyptians only enslaved those around them\n\nCapitalism has American and Chinese oligarchs enslaving people in African cobalt mines to increase their wealth\n\nSo yeah, nothing has ever quite fucked up wealth inequality, globally, like capitalism", "Though to be fair, the pursuit of sugar isn't as horrific as the pursuit of cobalt. Either way it's slavery, which is absolutely horrific, but handling sugar won't give you cancer.", "Lol, ok big brain. You were the one to move the goalposts asking me to defend a position I never took.\n\nBack to school for you!", ">and which socities actually did outlaw slavery, historically...?\n>\n\nAccording to you, all the capitalist ones.\n\nReady to admit how wrong you are about that?", "Says the guy literally using whataboutism to deflect from the shittiness of capitalism lmao", "\n>Capitalism has been historically extremely effective at reducing poverty and generating wealth for individuals across income brackets. \n>\n\nCitation needed\n\n>It doesn't promote slavery.\n>\n\nCitation needed", "Aka exactly what we have? The system that has us in the most inequal time, wealth-wise, in modern history?\n\nThe system that has caused more death and destruction through profit seeking than any other system?\n\nYou understand that, when an individual owns the means of producing survival for another individual, that is power that cannot be \"regulated\" away?\n\nAnd the only recourse is to take the means of survival out of the hands of individuals?", "My point being that corruption and inefficiencies exist in all systems. Some having it much worse than others.", "What does this have to do with democracy and how does taking away voting rights imply that it would be better?", ">People are inherently evil.\n>\n\nCitation needed\n\nI'd love your proof that all people are evil, inherently.", "Mining cobalt requires calories. Calories come from ingesting food. If these kids didn't have cobalt to mine, their likelihood of starving to death would skyrocket. I'm not saying this is just, nor acceptable. Only that it's true. If you think they wouldn't starve: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/05/nearly-half-of-all-child-deaths-in-africa-stem-from-hunger-study-shows", "Sounds like we shouldn't have iphones and new clothes every year and we don't need bananas available in Alaska 365 days of the year either, if fucking slavery is the only way of having these things\n\nBut what do I know...", "I mean.. Half of Poland's population got massacred less than 100 years ago by the Germans and Soviets. The entire intellectual elite wiped out. You can't just blame it on colonial times. It's largely because all the countries around The Congo is sponsoring rebel and terrorist groups to destabilize the country.\n\nThe war in the Congo has often been called \"Africa's world war\".", "It's also worth mentioning how some of the biggest names in the EV game, namely Tesla and soon Toyota, are pushing strongly towards cobalt-less batteries, LFP. Tesla is already using them in all Model 3 Standard Range cars (which is most of Teslas sold), Toyota already uses them in the Lexus UX300e, and will almost certainly be using them in the upcoming bZ Series cars, even VW plans to introduce an entry-level LFP based hatchback in 2023. So the cobalt use in the automotive industry will likely be falling in the coming years.", "Capitalism is global dawg, idk what you're talking about with \"other systems\" \n\nDo you think that a country where private citizens own the means of production is communist? Lmao", "Everyone that uses something with a battery in it. China is the biggest buyer.", "Shit hole countries and co.panies exploit their people but remember you the consumer are the bad guy.... get fucked", "You have to be a massive bellend to think that Congo's instability today is because of King Leopold. It's because of all countries around Congo sponsoring rebel groups to destabilize the country. Google \"Africa's world war\".", "and now in English please", "As far as I can see it, it's authoritarianism and corruption that keeps a country to not evolve. \nEven resource poor countries could be rich with an actual cooperating populace.", "It's modern bc it's happening now, but a hundreds of years ago.", ">The root of capitalism is the idea that you should own your own labor and be free to use it or sell it. \n>\n\nIf you need someone to sell your labor to, to survive, you can never be free. There's no regulation that will overcome this contradiction between the ideal of capitalism and the reality of it.\n\n\n>Any system where the individual doesn't own their own labor is immoral in my opinion.\n>\n\nAny system where the individual doesn't own the fruits of their own labor is infinitely more immoral, in my opinion.\n\n\n>Trying to construct a system other than capitalism where the individual still owns their own labor is likely impossible or requires so much extra violence to be kept stable that it's not worth trying (again).\n>\n\n\"Ignore all the violence needed to keep today's system going, it'd be lots of violence also to implement a new thing, so let's give up.\"\n\nIt's very easy to construct a new economic system that has everyone owning the fruits of their labor, profit seeking behavior isn't placed above human well-being, and where we don't fuck the physical commons (burning down the Amazon, polluting the oceans, etc).\n\nImplementing a new economic system is the tough part, because those who have power today, because they have bigger numbers in their computer than you and I, don't want that power dissolved.", "And it doesn't look pretty to have an Apple compound in Congo defended by mercenary soldiers. It's \"better\" to have nameless middlemen handle that part and then buy the minerals from them somewhere else", "They get to keep lots of it. But they have a terrible problem with corruption.\n\nJacob Zumba of South Africa was massively corrupt and stole hundreds of millions from the people. When he refused to testify in the case, he was imprisoned. What did his tribe, the Zulus, do? They went on a rampage and burned down entire parts of the cities.", "> We're bad.\n>\n\nNope. We're trying to survive and we live under an economic system that demands competition over cooperation for survival.\n\nThe only people who think it's human nature to be bad are people that don't read.", "You can literally no longer buy a Model 3SR with a cobalt battery. They're all LFP, and have been for quite some time in the EU and China.\n\nOther models still use a few kg in each battery, but a Model S today still contains 60% less cobalt than one built in 2013.\n\nIt's just facts.", "Nope Apple still uses a boatload of Cobalt.", "That things are more expensive in places with less supply is not weird. A cucumber on Greenland costs 5 times as much there than in Europe.", "Well that's just fucking stupid. Most of the mines are owned by China and is sanctioned by the DRC government.", ">Almost all (if not all) of these mines are owned and run by China.\n\nBecause China make almost all (if not all) out stuff.", "You completely missed the point. Thanks for responding though.", "They make stuff for the west. Is everyone who owns an iPhone Chinese? Is Apple Chinese?\n\nNo but these people and companies don't care where cobalt comes from.", "Shows what you know about communism, which is to say: Nothing.", "And this is one of the cruelest issues because it's relatively simple to solve with legislation alone. Force companies over a certain size which sell products in a certain country to enforce a set of human rights across their entire supply chain. If their chain is not compliant - their privilege to sell on a certain market is taken away.", "A small price to pay to please Theta", "Your point was that France was some how responsible for things being more expensive there. But things are a lot more expensive in Alaska compared to Washington state too. It's just supply and demand.", "What you described is corporatism. Capitalism would be the exchange of goods and services, corporatism is a state being controlled by large interest groups.", ">It’s not the warlords fault.\n\nK", "They have not moved away from Cobalt. They don't use very much, but even the new batteries being produced have Cobalt in them.", "Yeah it is. It erodes into the fuel or something and then gets ran through the engine. I mean, it ain't cobalt blue smoke coming out of the tail pipe, meaning that it's not a lot, but it ain't reusable either.\n\nAs far as how dangerous it is being released into the air, vs. say lead in fuel, I don't know. Vitamin B12 has a cobalt atom in its core (that's why it's called cobalamin). Any living being capable of making B12 needs to get the cobalt from somewhere.", "Did you miss the first sentence? \n\n\nWhy is it our responsibility to punish anyone?", "Much responsibility is on companies but I believe also us as consumers are involved: the price of everything is low, sometimes it's impossibly low, and we want it lower and lower. It is not reasonable to want a shirt or a chicken for 3 euros and pretend it's also produced fairly. If you're winning as buyer, the company is obviously winning as per capitalism... then someone else is losing. Guess who.", "Holy shit..you are dense. I was really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps, you'll do some research on just how badly France fucks over its overseas departments via price gouging. Please don't respond, I don't want you to further embarrass yourself.", "Yeah but is it ethically mined or not?", "And somehow it’s still all white Americans fault according to morons", "Oh damn, first time I've run into someone online in this line of work! Definitely a good thing that they are doing, I do think the industry is due for an evolution of the concept though. The smelters are supposed to have some sort of tracking of the minerals already so creating more transparency around where things are actually mined feels like a much needed next step.\n\nI'm sure the brands wouldn't really want it though, the more you can tie actual issues to your actual supply chain the more you need to do to remedy it...", "It's more likely local warlords would make less money.", "That's not how it works at all. It's not a zero sum game. Trade can and often is mutually beneficial.", "Actual real slavery no one gives a fuck about today because we benefit from it.", "market socialism, for now", "If it's so easy, then why has no attempt at communism been successful yet, and why are the countries that have been most successful at reducing poverty capitalist?", "Sky News doing actual journalism? Woah", "I guess this is the price we pay to save the Polar Bears.", "And, what about the last sentence?\n\n> NOW, if you want to talk about what 'we' can do, the BEST the United States can do is threaten to bring \"Freedom\" to the people of the Congo, and go looking for those evil doers.\n\nSo, if you are now saying you don't want war, then you just want the US to say, \"Please please please stop slavery or we will do nothing.\"", "Haha I see you got a lot of downvotes for saying something bad about our Lord and Saviour Musk. Here is a recent article: \n\nhttps://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-07-13-conflict-minerals-and-the-challenge-of-not-funding-human-rights-abuses \n\nI'm sure I shall soon join you in downvote land", "The huge irony here is that the very technology driving the slavery is also the tool that will get more people informed and hopefully stop it.", "Capitalism is what spoils democracy, if the agenda was human progress instead of accumulating 1's and 0's of fiat currency, I'm sure we would have better leaders instead of the corporate puppets we have now", "But cobalt isn't the only conflict mineral in tech - what about lithium, tin, tungsten, tantalum and gold, all of which are mined in Congo (among other places) and used in batteries and electronics?", "[Here's the full supply chain of a small german IT company that tries to sell fair trade computer mice](https://www.nager-it.de/static/pdf/en_lieferkette.pdf)\n\nYou can see that even a company that can basically put the price as high as needed for this experiment is unable to find out the origins of their raw materials.", "Well if we take French Guiana as an example: they are a integrated part of the French Republic and therefore they are members of the EU. That means they are part of the single market, which in turn means that France can't price gouge because they can buy freely from any seller in the entire EU. The same is true for the rest of the overseas territories belonging to France. They are constituent members of the EU. That includes Guadeloupe.\n\nSo pretend i am dense, as you called me. Explain to me how France controls the prices there when they are free to buy from anyone they like in the EU, tariff free. If France sells them toothbrushes at too high prices, they could just buy from someone else.\n\nOr might it be because transport to a tiny island with only 400.000 citizens is going to increase prices a lot, simply because logistics costs a lot more?\n\nI know simple people like you always just resort to knee-jerk reactions, but I just thought i would take 2 minutes to explain to you how you are wrong and I am right :)\n\nYou don't have to respond. I don't want you to embarass yourself further.", "You don't understand why that debt exists, so you blame capitalism, when it's been mismanaged by government interests intersecting with insurance companies.\n\nThink critically about why tylenol costs thousands of dollars on a bill when the hospital can literally go to a drugstore and get it for less than $10. What would cause that to be the case. What is preventing them from doing that.\n\nYou dont seem to follow that those nordic model nations are not socialist. They're objectively capitalist. Welfare is not exclusively socialist. You don't understand what you're advocating for.", "The children at least are making around 11c a day, so even bumping that up to a whole dollar would be a dramatic improvement. 20 a day would be astronomical in comparison", "That definition is a bit basic, but even under that definition this wouldn't be capitalism. First \"political system\" in the case of what happens in these mines, the central government has no power to enforce its laws in there, the absence of government is not a political system, unless you acount the warlord as being the government in this situation. That definition also fails in that the private owners are not in control of what's happening in those mines, there are no owner, private or public, the warlord occupies the mine but he doesn't own it, he can't resort to the power of the state to enforce his ownership, only his own power, and if his own power fails, his territory gets taken over by another warlord, and he can'tjust call the cops to restore the ownership of the mine to himself. Another point, if there is slavery, the market isn't free, people aren't able to sell their labour to who they want.", "Poor soul...reading comprehension...not in your wheelhouse. Better luck next time.", "... no? And according to me, the liberal nations did.", "I think the reason to focus on cobalt is it is geographically more dense. Trying to stop slavery in the textile industry. Just moves the problem to a country less likely to follow the law. Same for crops that aren't specific to an region or country.\n\nit's a \"quick win\" to banish slavery within the cobalt industry, and is in no way used to underplay any form of slavery.", "where is movement the black lives metter ? you need to go there you were brought from there sometime and still there they make slaves of people", "Bro if you have no idea what capital or capitalist means in the context of an economic system. Just stop making baseless arguments.", "in fact, this only says that no one needs cobalt, otherwise mining machines would have been delivered there and all mining would have been automated", "The United States has the wealthiest (2nd as of 2019) and largest middle class in human history. We've seen a consistent trend of decreasing global poverty. The US has ranked #1 in remmittances since 1987. [Source](https://devinit.org/resources/poverty-trends-global-regional-and-national/) [source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittances_from_the_United_States)\n\n\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution", "[Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) \n \n >The Thirteenth Amendment (Amendment XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. The amendment was passed by Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the required 27 of the then 36 states on December 6, 1865, and proclaimed on December 18. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted following the American Civil War. President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, effective on January 1, 1863, declared that the enslaved in Confederate-controlled areas were free.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "They don't want solutions, they just need to fuel the America bad circlejerk.", "It's also voluntary.", "No, the new batteries for standard range are planned to be LFP, and the higher density new batteries are planned to be nickel and manganese", "Slavery is explicitly legal in the 13th amendment. What the fuck are you talking about?", "You claim France is pricegouging. That's not possible. It's that simple. I get you got laid once and you just took her word for France price gouging, but if you have 20 shops to buy milk from and you continue buying from the place that sells the most expensive milk, despite other shops selling it cheaper, you can't call it pricegouging. It's just you buying expensive milk.\n\nPricegouging implies that they have no other to buy from. And that's just not true. That's the entire point of the EU single market.", "Elon and fam be representing", "What is the capital there?", "Tesla's new LFP cathodes used in standard range vehicles have no cobalt. \n\nThe 4680 batteries in development also have zero cobalt by using a high nickel cathode. https://youtu.be/l6T9xIeZTds?t=4178", "It's not slavery. They're getting paid. Slaves don't get anything, they're bought then have to work until they die for nothing.", "I'll add Tesla's next gen 4680 battery is being developed to have zero cobalt which will mean long range vehicles will also be zero cobalt. https://youtu.be/l6T9xIeZTds?t=4178", "This will never change.", "The majority of Tesla vehicles sold are standard range which use LFP and no cobalt. The long range use only 3%, which is much better than other manufacturers who are at 20-33%. Tesla's next gen 4680 battery will use zero cobalt on all vehicles. https://youtu.be/l6T9xIeZTds?t=4178", "It's not like those companies are barely making a profit. They could have less profit for humane work conditions, but they wont do that by themselves.\n\nThats why they are lining politicians pockets.", "You're a real hero bro", "Maybe they should learn to code", "Capitalism is a fine system when regulated, the problem is the goal of Capitalism is to maximize profits and that 100% is at the expense of everything else. If the maximizing of profits involves skirting regulations or even breaking laws as long as the amount gained outweighs the penalties than its \"the cost of doing business\" and we see time and again companies don't stop illegal activities they just get better at concealing it. \n \nUnfortunately the very idea of Capitalism which is to maximize profit over anything else is completely at war with the idea of regulations imposed and so policy and laws are passed through lobbying government officials or honestly let's call it what it is, a bribe, with the sole purpose to remove regulations and restrictions. \n \nLet's not play dumb here, if it meant stock holders getting an increase in their portfolio but it meant the world needed to be set on fire you would be hard pressed to find a single company not outside watering the front lawn with kerosene.", "It's not really owned by china, there are many industries that depend on Cobalt, heavy metals, batteries, whatever \"modern materials\" you'd like to call. How can we improve the conditions there? Work, water and living conditions? Obviously mining won't stop until the resources are depleted / become expensive. It's not just china buying the minerals but companies all over the world. China surely is seeking to take it all because they freaking produce the most from MINING. They're probably trying to have a monopoly of the mineral resources of the world, but yeah, what are we doing against it? people barely give a shit as long as they pay less for their christmas gifts", "It's not like Cobalt will just spawn. DR Congo has over 50% of the world's reserves of cobalt", "Today’s slaves dream of retirement and home ownership.", "LFP's are definitely a good transition piece of tech, although they don't account for the majority of Tesla's produced.\n\nYou would have to be very specific about which 4680 your talking about. Because not all 4680's are the same. What I'm saying is that they have not moved from Cobalt yet, they do however use the LEAST amount of Cobalt than any other manufacturer that I've been able to research. The design phase battery talked about on battery day is no where close to production and cannot be considered at this moment. I'm glad that all companies at least want to make the transition to cobalt-free, but currently that is not the case.\n\n4680's (for use by Tesla) are being designed by multiple different manufacturers and regions, and all of the ones that will be used in the upcoming 2022-2023 cars will contain Cobalt (less than 5%). It remains unclear if China will produce an LFP in the 4680 format though.\n\nI'm certainly not hating on Tesla here, I'm just stating the facts.", "People exploit people.", "Remember yall, for each Telsa on the road it's likely that at least 1 child died to harvest the cobalt necessary for that car.", "The entire 'civilized' world has extracted wealth from Africa for thousands of years, and likely always will. An entire 3/4 of a continent summarily exploited from the time it was discovered.", "You are aware that the \"communism\" or \"socialism\" various governments have branded themselves as bears little resemblance to the sort of society self-declared socialists/communists want, right? For instance, do you think the fascist Nazis were 'socialist', as they called themselves? Do you think Stalin's hierarchical society with a wealthy elite and starving masses was 'communist', as it called itself? It's easy for dictators to brand themselves as the good guys, but I don't see why any outsider would take them at their word when we can see quite plainly that their regime doesn't have much to do with what socialism or communism are all about.", "I live in a socialist country, you are wrong on so many points i get curious who the heck learned you that.\nThat dude must be tripping.\nYes socialist governments can control some industries to some degrees, usually those are infrastructure, healthcare, childcare, education witch are almost free or very low fees for the Citizens. \nOther from those areas the most common model is free market as long as it doesn't hurt it's inhabitants.\nMost socialist countries are democratic, so the power of the government comes from the people. A much less infected and fair system then the Us 2 party system.", "Any system can be perfect with perfect regulation. Unfortunately, every system has historically suffered from corruption that breaks regulation down and turns it into a facade at the expense of the have-nots.", "It's a very 'young person' way of analyzing things, and Reddit is full of them. Surface level decisions/evaluations are about it.", "what about recycling? Fairphone seams to tend to this, as it's easier to find the source, I guess it's not enough yet but maybe once the infrastructure will be more efficient it might be the solution, well, pushed by laws for sure, no companies will spend money on this if they are not forced.\n\n(edit) that is just depressing, a computer mouse doesn't require that much materiel\n\nwell I guess that's the same as coffee and other things, you can say it's fair-trade, but you still don't know about the rest of the supply chain, transport/packaging and stuff", "thats not at all what i meant but if you think that cool.", "If the US ended the embargo, a lot more cobalt could come from Cuba and Madagascar.", "Realistically, the companies cant do anything about it since the Congo is a sovereign country. The Congo needs to enforce and regulate their child safety laws", "> give back wealth \n\nDoesn't work, as that that wealth returned will just line the pockets of those in power", "Sad reality is that if any external force goes in and tries to establish infrastructure to mine ethically, the warlords are going to take the shovels out the kids hands and put guns in them to fight off the invaders.", "Very true, hence why I typically vote liberal is because they're the only ones pushing FOR regulation while Libertarians, Conservatives, Republicans and central Democrats are quite frankly bought and paid for shills, even Biden is ignoring his campaign promises. The problem isnt that one system works perfectly, I doubt a perfect system in which humans are involved can exist, the issues today and why capitalism is failing is it's purpose to maximize profits will always be at the expense of other things including child labor, slavery, low wages, little to no healthcare, dangerous environments, rampant pollution, basically if it doesn't effect the bottom line why waste money and resources on it? \n \nCapitalism isn't inherently bad, more profit is good but when profit is the only thing considered important than all the bad things I've listed are not caused directly by capitalism it's just it's byproduct. \n \nWe can argue other systems have also failed such as communism and that's fair but take a look at even the most diehard communist country still around, China. They are VERY much an up and coming economical power and not because of communism, because they have adopted capitalism heavily.", "I'm talking about the 4680 batteries Tesla are developing in-house for their Berlin and Texas vehicles. Elon mentioned in Sept that they would be going to zero cobalt soon, I'd be interested in your source that says otherwise.\n\n\"We use no cobalt at all in most of our cars & tiny amounts in others (going to zero soon)\" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1441851891000889350", "Thanks China", "It’s a marathon not a sprint", ">Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production/capital. First line of the wiki page for christ's sake.\n\nAnd a laborer working for himself owns his own means of production.", "Agreed, Biden is doing basically what I expected.\n\nCapitalism is bed IMO due to affording power to the already powerful, making it inscredibly difficult to regulate. Think about how difficult regulation is now, 250 years in, then think about how much more powerful the deregulators will be in the nexto 250 years...", "Haha, okay.\n\nSo what happens in a Marxist society if you decide to change careers, or simply to not work anymore?", "Iddqd\n\n\nCTRL ALT DELETE", "I 100% agree, the window in which to have made the changes that gave America it's economical boom may have already passed. It's scary just in the past 10 years how much the divide between haves and have nots has grown, I cant even imagine America in 10 years let alone 250.", "Dammit Germany!", "Neo Liberals when they profit off child labor: \\\\HOW CAN I BE EVIL? IM JUST HELPING THE ECONOMY!\\\\", "That would be the inhumane way to solve the problem.", "\"It'd be worse if we didn't exploit these people\".\n\nGee, isn't that convenient. Let's act like Western countries and interest aren't constantly making sure Congo and other African countries never get better, otherwise the materials and labor cost would rise.\n\nSlavery is only absoluyely bad when Qatar profits from it, I guess, or when the West does but a long enough time ago that they can't be blamed for it anymore.", "Jobs like these are often way more profitable than working at a farm field. This is a \"necessary evil\" that sheltered white suburban teenagers are clutching their pearls over because they're clueless.", "The 4680's being developed by Tesla (the ones talked about on battery day) are a cobalt-free battery. (These are currently being prototyped in Fremont) The 4680's that are going to be put into Tesla's in 2022-2023 will come from Panasonic / LG / China (sorry I don't know the name of the company). One is using NCMA and one is NCA, (China unknown) will be using the \"standard\" (For Tesla) less than 4-5% cobalt.\n\nPanasonic is using the same process for the new 4680 batteries (just a different format)\n\n\"Panasonic says the new nickel-cobalt-aluminum (NCA) \"4860\" cell format, which represents the battery's dimensions of 46 mm wide and 80 mm tall, will store more energy, reduce battery costs by up to 50% and drive a 100-fold increase in battery production by 2030.\"\n\nI applaud the battery manufacturers and Tesla, for reducing their already low (in comparison to other products), and for pushing to be cobalt free in a relatively short window (3-5 years).\n\nhttps://m.futurecar.com/4953/Panasonic-Unveils-a-Large-Prototype-Battery-Thats-Designed-to-Help-Tesla-Lower-EV-Production-Costs\n\n[https://news.panasonic.com/global/stories/2021/92945.html](https://news.panasonic.com/global/stories/2021/92945.html)\n\n[https://insideevs.com/news/535894/panasonic-automotive-battery-new-phase](https://insideevs.com/news/535894/panasonic-automotive-battery-new-phase/)", "20 dollars a day is insane. Theres people in the EU who don't make that.", "You can throw as many justifications as you please, friend. The \"mismanagement\" aka corruption within your govt and private sector isn't the reason for the debt. It's an inevitability when you turn public necessities into private businesses which, when run under the banner of American capitalism, will do whatever is necessary to increase profit margins.\n\nDemocratic Socialist countries that enact socialist policies for the betterment of their citizenry is superior to American capitalism which prioritizes profit over human lives. If you care about the welfare of your people, this is objectively true.\n\nAlso, the free market is not the same as capitalism. \n\nWhy are people quick to blame govt/private sector corruption to deflect from capitalism while having no problem decrying socialist countries as if they are also simultaneously free of the very same evils? Again, this stinks of hypocrisy", "IMF and World Bank loans are much more predatory than Chinese ones. They take China's deals because ours are even worse.\n\nAlso, 75% of people lifted from poverty in the last 30 years were from China. So I don't buy this rhetoric than China doesn't care about its people.", "There is a load of rechargeable battery tech out there that don't use cobalt.", "No work no money.. poor people getting more poor and rich people are getting more richer.. :/", "Who among us wouldn't pay to get a child out of that shit? And yet the system is still set up such that that exploitation happens. It is going to take time and money and attention to change.", "And then those children move on to mining gold, tin, or literally anything else. \n\n\n\n\n\n\nBoycotting isnt going to magically bring these children out of poverty, unfortunately. The solution is going to be much more complex than that.", "Wat? The slave mines started under western rule, and continued under pressure from the west, well before China started paying much attention to anything outside its borders.", "The key problem here is the lack of solid institutions. It's very difficult for anyone to invest in Africa since you're likely to be shafted by shifting politics and corruption before even a brick is laid. \n\nIn DRC you only need to look at ex-President Joseph Kabila's billions siphoned from China's $6 billion 'minerals for infrastructure' deal. Manufacturers at the very end of this supply chain have very little power here.", "Do you use milling/lathe inserts for your processes? That's the only thing that I know of that has cobalt in it that I use at work.\n\nI'm curious if the big insert companies like sandvik, Kennametal, etc use sources like this or if they're more sustainable. I feel like I know the answer, but ya never know.", "What are you on about? You clearly have zero understanding here.", "Humanity needs to end", "Are you really trying to say China isn’t real communism? Lmao. God the delusion on this site. Guess what there is never perfect communism, or perfect capitalism. Life is about what happens in reality, not in “theory” and the reality is life is better under capitalism than communism. Go move to a communist regime, have fun living that reality", "As an American, looking at some of the other States in our Union, this is a sadly underrated comment.", "Just like how the west does the same", "Funny thing is I’m a moderate, but on Reddit anyone not an extreme woke Leftie gets downvoted. This place is a literal trash can now. All they have to do is watch any testimony of sometime who went through the rise and fall of Venezuela to get a taste. But no, they’d rather sulk in their my life sucks, capitalism sucks, everything sucks circle jerk.", "I assume they're buying the cobalt for the same amount as if it had come from an efficient modern mine. That's why the wages are so low. They have a low output despite heavy reliance on human labor.\n\nI'm sure the corps would much prefer to set up their own mining operations in the area, mechanize the shit out of it, and employ the locals for relatively cheap. But they probably can't for whatever reason.", "Use the bLoCkChAiN!!! /s", "I'm scandinavian so yes there are plenty examples", "Ethical consumption is impossible under capitalism. Do you think you live in a country where everything is perfect? If you're reading this you're doing so with a device with minerals mined by slaves.", "Does it come from these mines?", "Warlords exploiting the peasants to increase their own wealth predates capitalism by thousands of years. \n\nThe fact that they do it to gain wealth doesn't make it a capitalist \"issue\".. Greed is present in any economic system and it's why the people at the top always exploit those below them. Whether it's communism, feudalism, capitalism or a more basic tribal society.", "Nobody is saying they like this situation. Just that it's not easy to solve.\n\nBecause starving to death is always going to be worse than the asbestos pits.", "But when those communists want to buy cobalt to make their phones and electric cars, they need to buy from a country like Congo. \n\nThere is no ethical way to purchase cobalt unless you actually invade and take over a country that produces it.. Being a communist society in Spain does not allow you to solve a civil war in Congo. Especially since it wasn't even a strong enough system to stay in existence itself.", "Or rather to take over the infrastructure of the new mine.", ">The 4680's that are going to be put into Tesla's in 2022-2023 will come from Panasonic / LG / China (sorry I don't know the name of the company). \n\nMy understanding is the 4680's will come directly from Tesla at first using the production methods and zero cobalt cathode prototyped at their Kato Rd facility.\n\nYou can see this from Tesla's 4680 production lines [currently being installed](https://twitter.com/ajtourville/status/1471902608877142020) in Texas. They've also built a similar battery factory in Berlin for their 4680 structural packs with documents outlining their [production process](https://twitter.com/MilMileBattery/status/1405735078018301954).\n\nI'm not seeing from your links anything about Panasonic or anyone else providing 4680's with or without cobalt or even beginning production before Tesla. I'd be surprised if they beat Tesla to production given Tesla's been prototyping 4680 production for years in Fremont and already has battery factories and production lines being finished.", "Actually this is cool because Elon Musk posts memes on twitter", "Democracy is the wrong word i think you mean CAPITALISM doesn't work. \n\nThere is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to be a billionaire. Having that much money is greedy and selfish and shouldn't need possible. The possibility of billionaires and soon trillionaires, I'm sure, proves to me that the current system doesn't work. \n\nThere is enough resources in the world for everyone to have what they need too live a basic happy life and yet we make it so that many people go without.", "No it does not", "You can't give money back to a country ran by warlords. They will just take it for themselves and make themselves more powerful...\n\nThe fact that Congo is so resource-rich is exactly why it cannot possibly have a stable government. When there is no incentive to develop the economy, it won't get developed. Why would any ruler in Congo bother to try to improve the country when the best way to make money and keep power is to exploit the natural resources and keep the workers dependent on them? \n\nCountries like Singapore show us what happens when a country has no natural resources. It needed to develop its economy and its human resources in order to make any money, otherwise the rulers have nothing. So they put a lot of energy into education and making the country stable and made sure their workers could provide huge value to the economy. You will never see that happen in Congo because there is simply no point from the rulers' perspective. You don't need to have 1000 people working in an investment bank earning you ~1million in taxes when you can instead stick them in a cobalt mine and take 90% of the proceeds, earning ~10 million. The added bonus is that it's far easier to maintain rule over a country where people are uneducated and not empowered. \n\nWelcome to the real world. There isn't a single country that isn't run by greedy fuckers. The only difference is in some countries there is an incentive to have a developed economy, and in some countries there isn't. It doesn't matter what economic ideology you choose, the rulers will always be in it for themselves. Make the Congolese warlords swap places with Singaporean politicians and within weeks you would see the politicians running the cobalt mines and the warlords reading up on the world of international finance. You can always count on those in power to do the best things for themselves. They're not doing things to be ethical or moral and you shouldn't expect them to.", "Yeah? Who are they selling the materials to? How else could western companies profit so much unless they exploit the cheapest source of labor possible? And China only just started acquiring these mines this year. Why do you think you're just now hearing about them? Now that China has been buying the mines out from under American companies, now it's a human rights violation. Before it was just free market economics.", "I hope you find it one day, bud.", "To companies all over the world.\n\nAnd no. China has been the prime owner of most of the mineral rights for many years.", ">Regardless of what you do -- even if global demand for cobalt dries up overnight -- these kids will just be sent into some other terrible mine, or whatever, because we don't make laws for the Congo and those kids still need to earn money for their families.\n\nAnd my point was that when people DON'T buy from shit factory (either by governmental laws or global pressure), they HAVE to make decent factory to mine cobalts. Thus, making the families there live above poverty.\n\nSure shit's gonna be expensive, but demand will never dry up.", "They would likely be making even more profit without the child labor. The tiny amount of cobalt scraped out of the ground by hand is puny compared to what mechanized mining could dig out. However, the DRC is poor because anyone trying to deploy expensive heavy machinery to these mines would be murdered and robbed, the million dollar machines sold for a few hundred dollars as scrap metal to buy weapons to continue the cycle.", "You're right, because both parts of that exchange have to be ethical. Just because it's very unlikely that both sides of that exchange will become ethical, doesn't suddenly make the reality ethical. Just like if the reality in the past was that in the US, the o ly practical way for people in the north to get fabric was from a slave plantation doesn't suddenly make it ethical.\n\nThe reality is that there will likely be no practically ethical way to do these things until massive global change takes place, but how likely something is doesn't change whether it's right or wrong.", "I finally lost it watching the revisit.. I am so thrilled those two boys were able able to make it out of the mines. But as they said, thousands won't.. My heart aches for these families. This is so fucked, and I wonder if it will ever not be fucked..\n\nDoes anyone know of any good organizations/schools we can support?", "Less isn't none, and the 4680's use more not less. Your techbro MLM is warping your mind. Also the LFP batteries aren't made by Tesla, or even Panasonic on site, but CATL, and they're surplus from electric bus battery production.", "Agreed. I would love to help, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of my aid going towards more exploration.. can anyone point us in the right direction? Thank you!", "the \"Middle Man\" is not a business, it is usually the local warlord. IE, the difference between what the cobalt sells for on the world market and what they pay to miners is not profit, it is taxes, and in the third world, those taxes can often be 90+%. \n\nRemember from the video: one of the small mines was being run by six \"friends\", they're not working for anyone else, yet they're dirt poor. Why not just walk their cobalt a little further to get the full world market price? The answer should be obvious: They'd be shot for attempting to avoid paying their \"taxes\".", "It is terrifying to read chinese propaganda. It is becoming so common on this site. I fear for the future because of people like you.", "If they don’t like the job they can leave ^tm", ">colonizers used to oppress the country \n\nYou act as though the impacts of colonialism just evaporate the moment the colonisers leave.", "Sorry I am piggybacking on the top comment. But has anyone done any research, or have experience in sending aid to help these children maybe have a fighting chance? Can anyone point me in the right direction?", "> Now you call it goods and services? Just a moment ago you called it capital...\n\nThe fuck are you on about? Money can be exchanged for goods and services.\n\nEdit: You're literally just repeating the same strawman over and over. No one believes that goods and services are capital, they're making the observation that the two are heavily linked in capitalist society. It's clear you can't actually defend your point of view if all you'll do is argue against opinions that you made up.", "Guys stop upvoting Chinese propaganda.\n\n[As of last year, 15 of the 19 cobalt-producing mines in Congo were owned or financed by Chinese companies](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/20/world/china-congo-cobalt.html)\n\nFuck you and all the misinformation you spread. People on here will believe you. What you do is evil.\n\nhttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/31/the-dark-side-of-congos-cobalt-rush", "Wait until people realize how bad Lithium mining is.", "Bullshit. We like to pride ourselves with our achievements in human rights and ethical policy; we have constitutions preventing human and child exploitation, courts dedicated to deciding what is and what isn't inhumane, welfare systems that were born out of the misery of past generations. The modern western state thinks of itself as ethical and value-bound, unwilling to profit off of human suffering.\n\nBut we've created a middle man; the free market, with private entities holding the reigns, whom we've allowed to outsource the exact human suffering that countless generations of our predecessors have fought to abolish.\n\nTo put the blame on the countries unwilling to enforce human rights is a sad farce we're deluding ourselves into. The west has ravaged these countries for centuries, and now once more it's the west's free market companies that are holding the reigns, corrupting those in power to keep the status quo as horrible as possible, so they can make as much profit as possible in western markets.\n\nNo, it's not the sole responsibility of the DRC, because it's also not the DRC that's asking for cheap minerals. Countries don't exist in a vacuum; they're constantly being influenced by outside interests, and the larger the power difference between the two entities, the less sovereignty there is to speak of.\n\nIn essence, we're allowing our companies to hold the DRCs arm, throw it in its face, and then say \"If only you'd stop hitting yourself!\"", "Why not acknowledge that it's all of these things and more? A fractured post-Colonial Africa where some regions continue to be poor because of continued destabilization between corrupt governments, neighbors who sponsor rebel and insurgent groups, and global capitalists who are willing to extract the resources from the country as long as there are a couple of brokers between them and the conflict minerals such that they are insulated from direct blame.", "Number of mines is meaningless compared to amount of production. You can start 20 new cobalt mines across the states, good luck getting anything out of them. The most productive mines have been spoken for for decades by westerners. You don't have to believe me, look up the top producers. [http://www.centurycobalt.com/cobalt](http://www.centurycobalt.com/cobalt)\n\nApart from Chinese Molybdenum, the rest are Anglo-Swiss (Glencore, the top producer), Canadian (Vale), or owned by Canadians and Americans, but run by locals have documented abuses (Gecamines). Even the New York Times isn't unbiased, they're just extensions of the propaganda machine that mobilizes against anyone the US finds to be a threat.", "The issue with cobalt, is that we're already straining the amount we can currently get at 140.000 tons, with Congo providing 100.000 tons of it. So companies are kind of stuck with the fact that they get it from Congo.\n\nCompanies are doing a lot to deal with this by finding ways to reduce the cobalt they use. I think the solution will come with the eventual modernization of these mines which will provide a massive increase in the total production, as well as bringing the quality of life of those people to a satisfying level.", "Well that's right. But the previous guy tried to blame Leopold for the shit situation they are in now, when the primary cause is their African neighbors.", ">aren't in a financial place to vote with their wallets; they either buy the cheap thing made by slave labor or they go without.\n\nPlease don't believe in what those big companies are selling. Do you really think that a company that have $200billion in cash and makes 42% of profit aren't going to profit when some things cost more?\n\n\n>And like you said, demand is always going to be there.\n\nAnd the profit is also be there. There are legitimate, sustainably, ethically sourced product all over the world. Heck, actually most product are like that, but still an unacceptably large part of the market is using slave labour.\n\nThat's what we want to change, an industry that can't live without slave labour shouldn't exist in the first place.", "Bro China said they're communist so they are bro never mind their state capitalist policies bro", "What you do is evil.", "Is it possible Congo has a child work culture that we only perceive as abuse because we have laws against child labor?", "The same users do. They brand themself as the ones who cares about society and in the next sentense they declare a hate toward appox. almost half of it. So yes, I would consider self-branded socialist as other self-branded socialis dictators.", "When you put it that way the slavery makes sense. /s", ">Biden just signed a bipartisan bill that banned goods made by slave labor, but only in Xinjiang. Why can't the US government ban all goods made with slave labor? Targeting only Xinjiang shows this is political posturing rather than an actual stand for human rights.\n\nAbsolutely, couldn't have put it better", "They blame mostly China in the video, which is right, but 40~75% of the Mines are owned by Compabies from the U.K. and U.S., but they don't tell you that, cause China is the bad guy on the World Stage now, just like the USSR was when it still existed.\n\nI often wonder, let's say China, Russia and Vietnam, North-Korea get eiped off the face of the Earth. No More Communist countires, now what happens, U.S. will start pointing fingers at its allies, same as they do China Today.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nFucking Hypocrite Britbingers and Americans. Blind to the spoke in their own eyes.", "What if they just stopped?\n\nLike collectively said whoa this is fucking all of us up, fuck the politicians, fuck the businesses, lets just go back to doing whatever we were doing before mining became a thing there.\n\nAt least the demand for workers might get them better pay", "lol i think lying so you can continue to jerk off dunking on the Chinese, skipping the swiss and the french and the british and the american and canadians who do far worse things but pay off Hearst or other old white men to keep quiet about it is fucking disgusting. sorry, no easy wins here. you can't gaslight spin into existence everywhere.", "evil.", "Supply chain accountability is legally possible and practical. In such a case the US company would still be liable. If you write the law so that the company is responsible for the base of its supply chain; playing dumb isn't an excuse, because the onus is on the company to know where the materials come from. You can't just buy it from some Italian company and say \"oh they didn't tell us where they got it from\".", "> we have constitutions preventing human and child exploitation, courts dedicated to deciding what is and what isn't inhumane, welfare systems that were born out of the misery of past generations.\n\nThose constitutions are signatory only, as are those courts, and those courts can only sentence, not enforce. They are very much a part of this elaborate play of us being moralistic.\n\n\n\nI'd say the issue with the DRC is that invading them to take over the minerals is about as bad of an idea as it gets, and allowing western companies to buy them is also an awful idea that's also blocked by the DRC. At that point, it's investment in the nation that's needed, but the nation is still unstable and incredibly corrupt, so that money is unlikely to really make the difference we would like. We could say 'fuck it' and just give the government a ton of money, knowing it will help the stability in the long run, but we're going to be setting up a Colombia-style war in the short run, and probably turn the current oligarchy into a straight up dictatorship.", "they also were projected to die within a few years, were huge and lost their capacity rapidly. people used cobalt to make batteries more reliable and energy dense for a reason. dragging along a giant battery in a giant car makes very little sense.", "The end game is probably the Chinese ripping apart the jungle with large bucket-wheel excavators", "necesity is what makes chindren work, when your parents work for $5 week every family member needs to work, a lot of kids around my area work a few hours per week(i live in venezuela), its painfull watch chindren working but is even more painfull watching them asking for food and people walking away without giving them nothing because not everyone can help them.\n\nthere 1 kid that sit in a bakary every day asking costumers for food, i buy him 1 tequeño whenever i can, ive seen the owner and some costumers give him bread and tequeños every other day i go to the bakery, but he is there every single day asking for food", "evil.", "It's a race to the bottom. Do you want to pay $300M for your batteries? Because that's what fair and square gets you. Playing fair costs money and will price you right out of business. Most consumers can't afford to buy ethically made products.", "Why are we stopping the blame at these multinational electronic and phone companies when they wouldn't sell anything if it was not for consumer demand. me, you and everyone else who buys such products are responsible, pawning off responsibility on the 'big' corporations is a cop out. \n\nlet's us first be real and burden some of the responsibility for what it is going on versus continually vilifying the other.", "Let's all protest by giving up all devices that run on batteries. Who's with me? Crickets? Well what if we make it so that miners can afford a living wage mining cobalt in safe conditions and then smartphones prices start at over $3000? Oh, no one likes that one either?", "And capitalism is a method to do it.\n\nSo many desperate, brainwashed \"patriots\" will draw any criticism of capitalism to its extremes. \"If not pure capitalism, then pure socialism!!\". As if there's no grey area between. As if we can't build a system with elements of both and based on fairness instead of either/or and based on a national identity.\n\nWe're allowed to have capitalism with more socialist regulations. We're allowed to have socialism with more capitalist freedoms. We're allowed to do these without hurting the statue of liberty's feelings. I promise.\n\nWhen people argue against capitalism, they're arguing against the idea of protecting capitalism for the sake of it. So when companies naturally exploit lower human rights conditions in developing countries using the principles of \"anything goes as long as it makes money\" or \"the free market will judge accountability\", we can criticize it without people losing their shit that America is under attack.\n\nYes, people exploit people. That's why we have laws to prevent that. The argument is to improve those laws.", "I think at this point it's pretty hard to identify anything as the root or primary cause excluding the rest.", "> When the truth is if this work was properly regulated, safe, and well paid, companies would simply be making slightly less profit.\n\nThey'd most likely be making more profit. I can promise you that Musk himself looks at this and is horrified. \n\nRegulations and safety are there for efficiency as well. The lack of support structure, makes a collapse more likely. A collapse means they would have to restart the entire mineshaft, and have to do it elsewhere, as the ground there would most likely be too unstable. \n\nThose kids sifting probably make as much in a year as the worth of the contents of that bag, but they're getting through one bag about an hour, when a basic machine [like this one](https://youtu.be/2vlmF4ZqmjM?t=220) probably does that amount in 5 minutes.\n\nSimple lights in the mines and around the area would not only increase safety, but allow them to work night shifts as well. \n\nCompanies think this is pretty terrible as well, but for amoral reasons. It's just really difficult to do anything about it.", "> Convince the guy working at Walmart to stop buying slave products.\n\nThat's why I never even begin my argument by trying to convince people to stop buying those product. The only way to do this is either by governmental law and public pressure to implement new laws.", "And companies are doing their best to reduce the amount of cobalt they use, find better sources or some solution to the DRC issue. \n\nThis is one of the times where the issue isn't the amoralistic companies exploiting the workers. The companies wish they could exploit them better, but they have very little control over the conditions in the DRC mines.", "Steps to reach this thought process: \n1. Colonize a country by force \n2. Set up a racially segregated system and award all the business contracts to your buddies and keep the native population subjugated and uneducated \n3. Decolonize due to international outcry and the country tries to establish its own government and take control of its resources and industries \n4. Cry \"communism\" when any act of nationalization is taken and coup the existing government with one more favourable to your business interests (i.e. your business buddies keep their contracts) \n5. Surprise pikachu face as the country falls apart and descends to anarchic warlords due to weak and corrupt puppet government \n6. \"I blame the people from the country\"", "My punctuation was a bit confusing, that's my fault homie. Capitalism has a problem, namely the unfair treatment of workers, which leads towards socialism revolution or worker revolt. The Nordic model (and Rhine model) attempt to fix this problem by providing for the social welfare of their workers. I never meant to imply that it 'was' socialism. My point was largely that the neo-American model of capitalism solves the problem by incarcerating the workers and then limits their access to labor organization, which is an example of state-sanctioned slavery to prop up a capitalist regime. \n\nI consider slavery is a by-product of inequality, and capitalism (particularly American capitalism) thrives on inequality. Education, income, etc. Frankly I'm not sure about your point on liberalism; I would think there's a loophole in liberalist philosophy here as neither equality before the law nor consent of the governed would apply if the trade happens internationally, since these folks from the Congo, or the blood diamond mines further south, or the blood cocoa fields further west, have ever experienced liberty and yet are still being exploited. Perhaps you can elaborate?", "Then the same goes for what we have as late stage capitalism, which is a shadow of its former self.", "Well, I guess we should just stick to burning coal then.", "That's just a ridiculous reach, lol.", "Im conviced that even this footage won’t be enough to radicalize americans.", "And it actually causes damage from a climate perspective. You see one side of the spectrum defending oil and gas, pointing to the use of cobalt in batteries, but then the other side also demonise it for not liking the company.\n\nIt's no wonder people seem to think that EVs are no better than traditional combustion engines.", "NEWS FLASH, how do you think America gets cheap product and provides consumers with 99.9% of their goods", "When I was a child I worked in a cloth factory. Not everyday but every other day. I WANTED to work there. Not because I don't want to play or stay home but because our family is just poor. My mother work 24-7 between taking care of us and work in the same factory. Child labor is not going to stop because you banned it or not support the bussiness exploit it. It will only stop when the parents get paid enough.", "Yup it's their main source.", "That was a lot of finger pointing, what actual solution are you advocating for?\n\nInvading over a country to \"fix\" things ala USA/Afghanistan?\n\nDumping billions into the coffers of the Congolese government and hoping it goes where we want? \n\nMaybe just aggressively take over the private enterprises of these developing country for ourselves through intermediaries like China is doing? Then we can either exploit for ourselves or price ourselves out of the market?\n\nI'm being sarcastic but no one has good answers.", "I'm American you're right it is a shithole", "That is a vast oversimplification that sounds great and gets you nowhere. \n\nGesturing vaguely and saying 'middlemen' does not get any closer to identifying where that added cost should be placed. \n\nSaying 'a little regulation' does not eliminate the mind-boggling complexity of placing a mandated increase in cost that the entire world would recognize.\n\n'Can help the miners' doesn't change the fact that the miners are exploited by their own government, and giving their government that money would not stop that, but go to their counter-insurgency efforts and the massive corruption in the country.", "congrats! you just raised your social credit score by +5 points for defending the honor of the People's Republic of China. May we suggest with the additional social credit points you have earned you may now travel on a bus within 50 kilometers of your regional township.", "Yeah I’m a Chinese propagandist, that’s why like 1/4th of the comments on my account are on a sub heavily critical of China and other Marxist Leninist regimes, it’s also why I’m banned from every single prominent pro CCP sub on Reddit from Sino to GenZedong. \n\nI also happen to be just as critical of America, their foreign policy has caused far more harm than china’s, the last war China started was in 1979 and they haven’t taken a serious military action against a country since then. America meanwhile has started like a dozen wars and killed at least several hundred thousand civilians in Iraq alone. \n\nWhere China is worse than America is it’s domestic policy, it’s been over a hundred years since America had anything close to as bad as the Tiananmen Square massacre and while they have concentration camps for kids at the border they aren’t genocidal or large scale like the Uighur concentration camps. America is however enabling a genocide even worse than the Uighur genocide in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia is starving and bombing civilians in Yemen all with American support and weapons, unlike the Uighur cultural genocide America could easily prevent this but they don’t because countries are immoral and will act in their own interest instead of being ethical.", "Who said that you sore fucking losers? You can have plugin hybrids that cover 95% of all electric drivetrain commutes with more ethically sourced parts or improve rapid transit which can be all electric anyway that are still affordable for most of the world, but nooo. You just want to play out the walking awkward nerd power fantasy that is Elon Musk and pretend hauling 4000lbs of car all the time to travel 20 to 30 miles a day at the most makes sense and think you're making progress. You're not. The Chinese have the right idea with the Huangguang Mini and the BYD Dolphin. You're just too busy with your techbro MLM to see it.", "Attacking a company and product that is better environmentmentally because of this is akin to anti-vaxxers attacking the vaccine because it isn't 100%\n\nThe conditions of a cobalt mine are still better than the conditions in a coal mine. Whilst its not good, its better than the alternative and companies are still moving forward to get away from these conditions as well. \n\n>pretend hauling 4000lbs of car all the time to travel 20 to 30 miles a day at the most makes sense\n\nI walk everywhere. Where I can't, I take electric trams or trains. Good effort.\n\nHowever, with your phone, your computer, your TV, your petrol-powered car, your airbags - you are still contributing to these mines. Stop the holier-than-thou attitude.", "Goods and services =/= capital", "i shouldn't have watched this ☹", "Child blood = more range, got it.", "No the cobalt is dirt-cheap upon exiting the country. It gets a very minor increase through the logistics operation that takes it to the refining process where it similarly gains a very slight increase. It does not start to see large increases in price-to-value until it's been made into a component, and most likely not even then.\n\nThe taxes you are referring to are probably pretty steep compared to the overall cost and give no actual value back, but I can promise you the biggest shaft most likely comes through the contract between the Congolese companies and the Chinese companies that refine the metal, and then the tech giants that form the components into finished products. The former has literal concentration camps, so good luck getting them to stop exploiting the DRC, and the latter has about 10 layers of disavowal to deal with your question.", "Wow", "Fuck off with that China Bad shit.\n\nThis started with traditional capitalist (companies primarily from the US, Korea and Japan as the end manufacturers) corperate imperialism before China was even in Africa.", "Gold is barely a tech material, like I know its used in tech, but there is so much already stockpiled on earth there is no real point to mine more.", "If you believe that China is the most likely country to do that and not the USA, England, France, Germany and all the other countries that have been and continue to extract the wealth of the third world,then you’re not paying attention to the world you live in.", "I'm not saying we should just accept slavery. I'm saying we should acknowledge that prices will go up.", "It's why we have evolving laws. The human element can never be fully regulated, and there is always an arms race between the regulators and he regulated. The issue comes when the regulated become too powerful or too unregulated (basically the same thing). This is what's happening today with the deregulation campaigned by conservative movements across the world, and the globalization of the world leading to countries only being able to regulate portions of company actions.", "While ignoring that one of the largest consumers of cobalt is the petroleum industry.", "But EV guuuuuddd", "What? He fucking said it himself.", "evil.", "evil.", "Are these the same kids that make LeBron's shoes?", "A part of modern capitalism has been creating* a need. Ford, for example, made a car for use. You'd buy a car, and now you had a means of transportation. It wasn't until later that General Motors introduced trends and obsolesence into cars. The idea that you needed the latest model of car with the customization that you wanted.\n\nLike, you don't need a smartphone. You need a communication device, computer device and an internet connection. All of those can be provided through a smartphone, or by other means. Where the onus lies is in the idea that you need a computer, a laptop, a smartphone, and a tablet, though they all have entirely overlapping capabilities, and you need multiple options for each.\n\nAnd then you've got needs that are entirely manufactured. There is no need for video games. What then 5 MOBAs.\n\nPeople act like capitalism is the most efficient system for delivering the most value, and it is, but it is also the system that gets to set what value is. It's like calling your team the greatest baseball team in the world for having won the World Series.", "I didn't say \"use reddit as a source\" I said \"use reddit to find lots of links to sources\"", "Of course I'm not advocating for an invasion, as much should have been clear when I critisized colonialism.\n\nAlso, of course there are solutions. The comment above actually cited one of them - the European Due Diligence act - which, unsurprisingly, got watered down as a result of corporate interests.\n\nI genuinely don't think it would be too much to ask for companies above a certain size (i.e. multi-billion-dollar corporations) to be held liable for what happens on their supply chains. I'm certain a company like Tesla would have the resources to track down the suppliers of each of their parts, and the suppliers of those suppliers, all the way down. If every corporation (above a certain size) were forced to make these considerations, it would create an industry around supply chain intel that there is, at this moment, simply no incentive for.", "Yeah China is pretty evil, I agree", "Electric vehicles are clean they said.", "I don't know the huge amount of kidney disease based deaths in sugar farmer communities seem horrible. Not to mention that accidents kill kids and adults as well, it might not be as horrific but it is not cute either. Thousands die each year because of sugarcane farming.", "I had to drill a lugbolt out on my wheel the other day and used a cobalt drill bit. Thank god for these children!", "Well one point that no one seems to realize and consider, is that 10% of DRC cobalt mining is 'artisanal'. The rest is mechanized. They've long since ripped apart the jungle. This is just in one of the many areas where instability keeps them from doing it.", "I see what you’re saying but you’re falling into the fallacy of pointing out just how complex it all is and offering now solutions of your own in return, which comes off as saying “we’ll just have to live with it since it’s too complicated to fix.”\n\nThe oversimplification of “the corporations can just take less profits” is both true and not true. It’s true because many high level corporations can literally take less profits in certain ways. I’ve worked in a large corporate setting and will the profit and loss statements and all the finance people who make decisions. My point is there is a lot of “funny money” math that happens so that people get their bonuses, stocks post high on the correct days, and “growth” is continual in perpetuity. There are ways to not make as much profit and everyone can still eat and be housed.\n\nBut it’s also not true since it is an oversimplification. It’s so damn complex and if one company does the morally right thing, then another one will just pop up and do the thing that makes a quick buck at someone’s expense. I don’t have all of the answers but I think it starts with working to change corporate structures and implementing certain regulations on supply chains. Countries like the US and EU countries need to be the ones to spearhead it and force others to fall in line.", "It seems like you're not paying attention. Chine exports about 80% of the cobalt from the DRC. They are very much the ones in control there.\n\nThey're also the undisputed leaders in exploitation on a global scale. The Western world has lost a lot of its influence to them, as China is more willing to make backdoor deals, immoral agreements and deals that require governmental weight behind it. Not to mention that dealing with the Western world has the same connotation as dealing with the Devil at this point, leading to all avoiding it. China hasn't cemented that reputation yet.", "I wonder why are they selling it that cheap. They have the market cornered, basically. If anyone knows, tell me. I bet someone owns the mines and these kids have no other alternative income sources.", "evil.", "r/elonmusk lol", "Folgers, pretty sure their supply chain was caught with child labor, cleared 260 million in profit in a year. Thats with paying their CEO 3 million dollars in comp, and other execs shit loads too. They could easily keep prices the same, push that money back downstream, remain profitable, pay rich people insane money, but lack of growth would kill the stock.", "Damn Germans with their good water blasters", "I'm sorry, but clearly the west is profiting off of this exploitation. And as it stands, there's every incentive for companies to look away and take what they can get at the best price.\n\nIn reality, there is every incentive for companies to actively involve themselves in destabilising these countries for personal profit, too - see [Banana Republics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic), [their history](https://youtu.be/WWBCl8huNMA), and the market forces driving them. These phenomena are just as applicable today as they had been to colonial times.\n\nIt's too easy to take ourselves out of responsibility when it's ultimately our markets supporting, driving, and profiting off of these conditions.", "[Banana republic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic) \n \n >In political science, the term banana republic describes a politically unstable country with an economy dependent upon the exportation of a limited-resource product, such as bananas or minerals. In 1904, the American author O. Henry coined the term to describe Honduras and neighbouring countries under economic exploitation by U.S. corporations, such as the United Fruit Company (now Chiquita Brands International). Typically, a banana republic has a society of extremely stratified social classes, usually a large impoverished working class and a ruling class plutocracy, composed of the business, political, and military elites of that society.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Captain's got to teach stuff", "Capitalism cannot survive without a police force and government regulation, the congo is the epitamy of unrestrained Capitalism actually, it's not a device, just what occurs when no power is exerted over the people.\n\n\nSide note, it is by design that policing and governments that have tried to stabilize the Congo have been destroyed or removed by foreign powers.", "They don't know, likely read it some place else on reddit from someone who also didn't know. Fiction spreads fast on the web, faster on social media.", "How can you say that slavery wouldn't exist in a stateless, classless society when it already has? Native Americans enslaved one another all the time. One individual can enslave another. The economic system is not the cause.", "I would refer you to the history of every tribal society. I would refer you to all early human history. It's almost all violence and exploitation all the way down. We as a species get a little better every generation but make no mistake that cruelty has been the norm. I know that because I read.", "So we’re not getting iPhone 14?", "https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/545593/panasonic-progress-tesla-4680-cells/amp/", "So you’ve managed to say what you DONT think capitalism is, but you’ve failed to define what you think capitalism is.", "k stan k r/RealTesla is this way if you ever decide to wake up. Antivaxxers don't care about other people, seems odd to say that but turn around and sign everyone else up on the road for a 'full self driving' beta. Your dumpster fire of a cult is going to implode sooner or later.", "I dont work for sealift anymore you stupid prick", "I am paying attention, China currently holds the largest contract for cobalt in the DRC. They’ve pumped a lot of money into the DRC, and they’ll fuck over the Congo too. Framing it as China will bulldoze the jungle creates the implication that “they’re” bad and “we’re” good. As if the “west” or America or Europe hasn’t stolen the wealth of African countries for a very long time. China is growing and they’re seeing lots of gains from that exploitation. But don’t pretend that the global north isn’t rich from doing the same thing for the last four hundred years.\n\nPS. I’m not talking about you, you probably know this stuff already, I just find the “China bad” narrative odd. We’re basically thieves calling the new thief on the black a bad person for being a thief.\n\nEdit: wrote hundred years, meant four hundred years.", "I do have some answers. The country needs to be secured and then it needs to be industrialized. The issue here isn't one of the damn middlemen taking all the money, it's an issue of parts of DRC still being conflict areas.\n\nIt's only about 10% of cobalt mined in the DRC that's 'artisanally' mined. The rest is industrial. Companies would love to bring that 10% down to 0, as that vastly increases the amount that's mined and we dearly need more cobalt (it spiked by 100% in price due to demand about a year ago). Company armies are, however (very rightfully) illegal, and so they can't do anything about removing rebels from the region. The country could do this (and is working on it), but it is an oligarchy and incredibly corrupt. That means any investment would largely be siphoned to the corrupt government and any increase in military strength would drastically increase the chance of it becoming a dictatorship. Foreign intervention is an option, but the Western world just got out of one and China has yet to show any appetite for that kind of thing, so that's off the table. That leaves diplomatic avenues to try to get the rebels to demilitarize and become a part of the government. Tell anyone you think that's the solution and they'll tell you: \"Yeah. That's what we've been working on for 30 years now.\" And they're doing pretty well at it! The current president used to belongs to a party that used to be a rebel group. Now he did become president through a rigged election, orchestrated based on a deal he made with the incumbent, but that's an oligarchy for you. Trouble is that main rebel group right now is a bit more complicated, as everyone would like to see certain leaders within the group prosecuted upon demilitarizing as a part of the deal. Seeing as those members were the leaders of the Rwandan Genocide.\n\n\nYour way is very much too complex. To start off, most of the cobalt (80%) goes to China. So good luck getting the EU and US to damage their economies by again economically sanctioning China to this time defend the interest of an entirely foreign country. Then good luck on getting the EU and US to form this regulation at all. Intergovernmental agreements like this take about a decade to form when everyone profits, what then when everyone loses, and easily fall apart like we saw with the Pacific agreement. Then good luck getting that value to the miners, with the massive corruption and more pressing matters the government has. And finally good luck with getting this increase in cost to not end up on the customers down the line. There's no accepted price for smartphones so there is price elasticity there that the companies will use (and rightly blame the govs for the increased prices to put pressure on them), and there's no way for the government to set a fixed price on smartphones and other such goods, which would in fact be required.", "My argument is that high-development countries are directly supporting and profiting off of these conditions by refusing to call mega corporations to responsibility, instead shifting all responsibility onto an impoverished population that doesn't even know how to read the word \"poverty\".\n\nI'm not advocating for the west to march in and force freedom on the people, but the least we could do is take measures to stop corporations from supporting and sometimes actively facilitating these conditions for personal gain.", "Or they simply do some accounting steps. It's already nearly impossible to keep track of conflict materials like cobalt diamonds and gold. If you try to stop these elements, you're going to fail. Especially since only about 10% of it is mined this way, so it's easy to allow it to simply join the stream.", "I don't really care for tesla, I just don't base my life around them like you. It's strange how much you're against them though, you're like a member of a rabid cult.", "I'm pretty sure we're in agreement here.", "\"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.\" So, no, we did not abolish slavery seeing as we use it today in prisons for forced labor", "The idea doesn't work, but they wouldn't have to go through such lengths. \n\nIt would be more the same issue we had in Afghanistan. There's a limited time we're there so we'd have to future-proof the country. That would mean having to understand how to and improve their government. We'd also have to root out as much corruption as possible, so we're not filling a barrel without a bottom. We'd have to keep interest at home from corrupting the project to make the cost-to-value as high as possible and the end-result as dependant on their continued profit as possible. We'd also need to deal with the rebel groups freely moving between the neighboring countries, without pissing off the entire region. And finally we'd need to keep the country from seeing us as an occupying force, and thus simply adding strength to the rebels.", "In a thread about child slavery… you need _me_ to prove to you that the average are capable of horrible things?", "Then by definition, it is not socialist.\n\nWhat socialist country do you come from?", "The same, lol. Cobalt has doubled in price in the last two years, due to demand. Unless Finland is about to at least double our current production, it's not going to close the DRC mines, which provide 80% of current production. Not to mention that they estimate it being a 15 year project, before they exhaust the source, so it's allievating the current demand, not heavily impacting it.\n\nDo note that only about 10% of DRC production uses manual labor like above.", "> The fact that Congo is so resource-rich is exactly why it cannot possibly have a stable government. When there is no incentive to develop the economy, it won't get developed. Why would any ruler in Congo bother to try to improve the country when the best way to make money and keep power is to exploit the natural resources and keep the workers dependent on them?\n> \n> \n\nIt does not stop them, and they are working towards it. DRC was heavily destabalized through Civil Wars. They're still dealing with the aftermath, but they are making steady progress. The natural resources are in fact being improved and the government is slowly moving towards a real democracy.\n\nOf course investing into it would be catastrophically bad. The money would nearly surely be used by the government to strengthen their military as well as line their pockets. The current ruling party could then leverage the added military strength and lack of internal opposition to declare a dictatorship.", "Yeah I'm not pretending we're bad at all. China is very much funneling all those resources to our hungry mouths. But the point very much is that we're cocaine and China is crack cocaine. We ruin lives, but China does it better.", "You are referring to the African Growth and Opportunity Act. It's a trade deal, more or less. The program provides sub-Saharan African nations duty-free access to the United States on the condition they meet certain requirements, including eliminating barriers to U.S. trade and investment. The US side requires the recieving country to stop all human rights abuses. The contract was held in breach recently, as the Ethiopia side is not being met. \n\nI'd hardly call that intervention..", "No, using the free market is capitalism. Thats what capitalism is. Thats literally all it is. That's what you're fighting against. Socialism is a planned central economy. 'Democratic socialist' nations are not 'socialist.' The nordic model is not socialist. It's misnomer from before the economic revolution that occured in the 80's.\n\nYou keep saying the same things over and over and have a fundamental misunderstanding what socialisim actually is.\n\n\nI really wish you would actually listen to what I'm saying but you're so caught up in the 'evils' of capitalism that you're missing the point. You don't understand what socialism is. It's not the nordic model. It's a specific thing. It's a centerally planned, state controlled economy.", "Truth hurts, eh?\n\n&nbsp;\n\nCongratualations on your +20 FICO Credit Score.\n\nYou can now access Medical Care and Home ownership after you succeed in gaining the next 170 FICO Score points, keep it up and you'll be able to access higher paying Job thresholds!", "We are not incarcerating workers or socialists in the US. That's propaganda. We're not able to provide a robust welfare for the populace like the nordic model because our population is too massive and we have a relatively open immigration policy, so the logistics for it is somewhat difficult to manage. Welfare is not socialism. Socialism is a specific way of planned, state controlled economy. 'State sanctioned slavery' is not Capitalism. That's the state. If we had been more liberal that wouldnt happen. Capitalism does not deal in the treatment of workers, it has literally nothing to do with that. Do you think workers in socialist countries are not exploited? Look at Venezuela.\n\nAmerican Capitalism doesnt thrive on inequality. Most evidence is to the contrary. There is no evidence that we intentionally keep our citizens uneducated. Despite having orders of magnitude more students, the US ranks 5th in the world on money spent per student. If you only include inner city schools we jump to 3rd.\n\nThe issues in Africa are not the fault of American capitalists. Look into CCP investments into Africa and tell me this is an issue of Capitalisim.\n\nMy point about liberalism is that it's inherently tied to capitalist economies, since Capitalisim is basically liberal economics.", "R/yourjokebutworse", "Yes, that's why what they're doing is bad.", "I think this one is a an agree to disagree type situation. This might be a moving the goal post type situation and sorry if it is. I just don’t even think of it in terms of countries anymore, Americans can invest in Chinese firms and Chinese citizens can invest in America, so we’re all guilty. It’s a big machine and China is just the latest player.", "Yeah fits my analogy pretty well, doesn't it? They're crack cocaine, which is just cocaine in another form.\n\nOne of the biggest issues today is the fractured nature of governance in a global world. So doesn't matter if the US doesn't want to support slave labor, US companies go after profit and China doesn't care.\n\nIt's not until we have a powerful international body that forms international law that these things will start to cease. I mean, look at tax laws. It's the dumbest thing that paperwork and 'moving' intellectual property all of a sudden provides tax cuts.", "says the r/conspiracy user", "Yes I went on a thread to challenge anti-vaxxers. I see reading isn't your strong point.\n\nKeep parroting the same regurgitated tripe that leads to minimal progress, I'm sure it'll work one of these days.", "You're going very far back to point the blame on something that is happening today. Interesting thought process.", "It is not a complex situation. The miners are exploited by the middlemen \"The equipment used to measure the grade of the ore as well as the scales for weighing the raw ore are owned and controlled by the – exclusive – buyer\". Simply setting up more checks, or a government controlled or overseen buying shop for the miners, would be a great help to the miners. The Cobalt can be sold on at exactly the same price, or if there is a global supply shortage, the government can leverage greater prices. I am not sure what this \"mind-boggling complexity of placing a mandated increase\" has to do with my original post?", "There are phones half the price as iphones using completely ethically sourced materials.\n\nCheck out the fairphone.", "Idk, I feel like if the US for example, was taken over by a military coup in 1960, that would still be relevant to the people there,. Especially if you are a newborn country with new institutions which are instantly subverted and corrupted before any kind of public trust can form.", "Oh, I guess Glencore doesn't count then.", "Sure they do. But they do not have a majority of the mines in DRC.", "I agree, but I think it's pretty clear they weren't saying that. \n\nYou're arguing against a strawman. No one here holds the opinion that goods and services are capital, you just refuse to actually listen.", "r/ShitAmericansSay", "I've been following this for a couple decades. \n\nThese videos/stories come up into the mainstream every 3-6 years or so. People get outraged, authorities vow oversight and change, then people go 'yay we fixed this.' A few months later, silently it goes back to child slave labor after most everyone has lost interest. Rinse and repeat.\n\nThe world is too complex for the average person to be able to track every moral outrage. People will always buy the cheapest best products so nothing will change until we find a cheaper source of mining than child-slaves. If you want to fix this, make a robot or mechanical mechanism that is cheaper to use than a slave in the DRC. Bonus points if the operation of this robot is most effectively managed by educating and training the local population.", "Am I? Then tell me what's the capital here?", "Fuck off, I'm not getting dragged into your petty semantics.\n\nI've told you that wasn't their argument, you can either ask them for clarification and engage in good faith, or you can continue asking people to debate you so you can strawman them.", "I never said it was a good thing, the situation is terrible and unfortunately I don't have a solution to fix it. This isn't just exploitation by outsiders, the local government forces people to do this sort of work, criminal gangs too. \nThe world wants cheap tech metals and this is one of the results.", "You can say a lot about what are generally seen as totalitarian governments, but they do not even approach the United state's incarceration rate. It takes incredible resources and infrastructure to keep such a large population in prison. Do you think a country such as North Korea who has been under complete economic embargo has the money and resources to jail a majority of their population? Otherwise your comment is fine, but it should be said that the \"most free\" also jails enough people to make the most autocratic countries blush.", "If you think this is \"Broken\" you have no idea about the real world...", "Sweden, can you name one socialist country by your definition?", "That's awesome, though in the follow up video they mention a lot of these illegal mines sells to china, and I bet china manufacturers don't give a shit. I wonder if lower demand will force some of them to change though.", "You sound exactly like those defending communism \"that was not real communism\"!!", "What makes you think \"pushing that money back downstream \" will at all improve working conditions? It's more likely to just further enrich the plantation owners", "Regulations state side and locally for better work conditions, material tracking etc… would probably help with that. It’s not like hoarding it at the very top is working.", "You know what the most insane part of this conversation is? My Nigerian shipmate named bassi and I had this same argument, only back them I said the problem is local corruption, and he said it was imperialism and capitalism. After seeing more of the world I came around to his point of view and thats when I encounter this anonymous internet douchbag who created an account just now.", "I mean, it's not a complex situation if you ignore how anything gets done. Net positive fusion is simple. Simply hold fusion fuel in a tight magnetic field. \n\nOf course, putting the word \"simply\" in front of things doesn't make it so, and \"setting up checks\" and \"government controlled\" things are hard to set up in regions where you're not the government, and the government is incredibly corrupt, or even worse: The government doesn't have the power to overcome the local warlords who control the region.\n\nYour \"checks\" become a small barrier to be overcome for a rubber stamp, your government controlled shop is pay to play. If anyone agrees to put them in in the first place, which...why would they?\n\nThe mind-boggling complexity is that your assumption about how the world works is based on a (frankly, pretty naive) interpretation of how developed countries with a strong rule of law work. All that stuff took hundreds of years to develop on the backs of an ever-increasing amount of power that labour got through education increasing productivity.\n\nTo make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe, and to make good working conditions a guarantee, you must first invent a nation. Not an easy thing to do, because you have smart people working selfishly against you the entire time. And I'm not talking about the selfish executives at Apple who want cheap phone batteries.\n\nThere's a reason things are the way they are, and we're not one simple fix away from it being better. It's a slow, arduous crawl with political pressure and investments that make things worse half the time.", "It's not semantics, it's economics. One of the biggest problems these people face is the absolute lack of capital available in the country, but you seem to be seeing capital everywhere in here. I would really like to get your view point.", "How do you figure? \n\nIt's not socialism. Socialism is a specific economic system based around centrally planned economy. Free market trade is Capitalism. Wellfare from the state is an aspect of socialism, but not exclusive too it.", "Do you mean he isn’t a Saint? He released all his patents so it should he fine.", "Jeez Louise!", "Venezuela. North Korea. China before the 80's. Cuba. \n\n[Sweden is not socialist.](https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/05/20/sweden-is-capitalist/) Welfare is not socialism. Welfare from the state is not exclusive to socialist nations. That's not what the separation between Capitalism and Socialism is. [The nordic model is not socialism](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/27/nordic-countries-not-socialist-denmark-norway-sweden-centrist/). It's a common misnomer, but I'm getting sort of tired of having too explain that.\n\nSocialism is when the state commands control of industry, and therefore has the capacity to set prices. Capitalism is when anyone can create and control industry, trade on the market, and value determines pricing.", "I didn't give any definition because I don't think the one you gave is wrong, just very incomplete, and even by that incomplete definition, this case doesn't fit it.\n\n The ownership of capital by individuals is a necessary condition for a capitalist society, but it's not a sufficient condition, the same way voting alone doesn't make a country democratic, many other types of government beside capitalist ones have individuals owning capital. For a more complete definition for capitalism I would recommend you the wikipedia one: \n\nCapitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, price system, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor. In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investments are determined by owners of wealth, property, ability to maneuver capital or production ability in capital and financial markets—whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets.\n\n\nNothing that happens in these mines resemble this definition at all, there isn't a single one of these caracteristics (capital accumulation, competitive markets, price system, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor. )", "They are bad for choosing child labor over not choosing it.", "How ironic. \n\nhttps://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042215/what-difference-between-capitalist-system-and-free-market-system.asp#:~:text=The%20free%20market%20and%20capitalism,wealth%20or%20goods%20and%20services.\n\nIt seems you are guilty of the ignorance you keep accusing me of. \n\nI've maintained the same nomenclature because it is correct. I've never stated pure socialism is what I've been advocating for. I've continually used democratic socialist countries that adopt socialist policies because that's what I'm talking about. \n\nAmerica's brand of capitalism is corrupt. Its isn't a corrupt society that utilizes capitalism. Very important difference. \n\nIf you care about looking after your fellow citizens, then countries that focus on providing education, medicine, housing, superannuation etc are DEMONSTRABLY superior to America.\n\nIf you prefer the American model then, imo, you are espousing an evil, corrupt system.", "Are you completely ignoring the people who are purchasing these products? \n\nI’m not saying these cobalt mines are self sustaining capitalist governments in and of themselves. Do you not think these warlords have competitors? \n\n“Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit”\n\nIn what way does this not apply to war lords privately owning the means to their own production of cobalt? \n\nHow are you honestly saying none of those factors apply? Literally all of those factors apply. Do you not think those child labour factories in the US in the 40s were capitalist? How about the forced private prison labour we have? How is it any different than that?", "Okay, I can't tell if you're serious or not. Nothing in that link rejects what I've been saying.\n\n>I've maintained the same nomenclature because it is correct. I've never stated pure socialism is what I've been advocating for. \n\n It's irrelevant if you're talking about \"pure socialism\" or not. You're advocating for socialism. It's a specific thing. The democratic socialist nations are not socialist in the definitive sense. Welfare is not socialism. You don't know what socialism is. I'm trying to explain it so you understand, so that you can make informed comments when talking about Socialism and Capitalism. Again, Again again again, Welfare is not socialism. It is not exclusive to socialism. \n\n>If you care about looking after your fellow citizens, then countries that focus on providing education, medicine, housing, superannuation etc are DEMONSTRABLY superior to America.\n\nOkay. They're still market capitalists. I obviously think we should be able to provide these services to people, the problem is between our open borders and relatively massive population, managing the logistics of such a thing is expensive and difficult. We need more time to implement these systems, particularly when the US was designed to move slowly to limit governmental corruption. In the grand scheme of economic and social history, these are brand new concepts. These being provided by the state is a first in human history. The US isn't rejecting these ideas, we're applying them slowly as we deal with the logistics of 330 million people. (3/4ths of the entirety of Europe.) The reason we have the wealth to implement these systems in the first placeis due to Capitalism. That's why the nordic model is literally called [Welfare Capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_capitalism). A strong economy is the best path for establishing a robust welfare state. Saying Capitalism is the problem is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. And the sink. And tearing up the plumbing. \n\n>then countries that focus on providing education, medicine, housing, superannuation etc are DEMONSTRABLY superior to America.\n\nAmerica is 5th in global spending per student, despite having more students than 1-4 by orders of magnitude. Again, these things are not socialism. The US has tons of options for free, state run healthcare. Medicare, medicaid, and a host of regional plans. The issue is that insurance companies and state interests have intersected, and created a middleman that is leaching from the current system. Yes, this needs to be rectified. Saying we should \"adopt a socialist model\" without context is a misunderstanding of what the problem is. Not the market, nor capitalism, is creating these problems.\n\nThe US can improve on these things, but we still provide options for the vast majority of our citizens in need, despite our population. It's current failures are not due to free trade and the state taking control of the medical industry wholesale is legitimately just not a feasible option. Which is what a socialist solution would be. Again, as Socialism is defined, the state taking wholesale control of the entirety of the medical industry and disallowing any competition so that they may set prices is the socialist solution. That's the solution you're advocating for.\n\n\n>If you prefer the American model then, imo, you are espousing an evil, corrupt system.\n\nWhat about free trade and private property is evil or corrupt. There is corruption within the state, like in every nation, but that isn't capitalism. Just like welfare isn't socialism. It really feels like people only think \"Socialism is when the state does good things\" and \"capitalism is when the state is corrupt\". I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall here. Advocating for Capitalism is not a rejection of welfare. Again. ADVOCATING FOR LIBERAL ECONOMICS IS NOT A REJECTION OF WELFARE\n\nCorruption does exist in the frame that lobbyists and Corporations wield significant powers, but part of the problem is the legal distinctions and privilege's these Corporations have, provided by the state. What you think is evil and corrupt is corporatism, not Capitalism, and I agree. Rejecting socialism is not embracing corporatism. Corporatism is closer to fascism than liberalism.\n\nDo you finally understand my point? Or are you going to shut off and just talk about how evil literal liberal economics is.", "We use involuntary servitude in prisons. If slavery were still in use today, prisoners wouldn't have release dates, rights, children would be born into slavery as well, etc. So, no, we abolished slavery.", "That's a prototype production line in Japan. It's basically what Kato Rd was years ago. Tesla will be first to make 4680 batteries from their production ready lines being installed at Texas and Berlin right now.", "Heaven forbid we acknowledge the short comings of capitalism...", "yayyy cell phones...", "They deleted the comment smart guy.", "Legally possible, but I am not sure about practical. If the United States passed a law that determined the 1st world working conditions we demand in order to trade with us, at all levels of a supply chain........I think our store shelves would be empty. Not of just fancy electronics, but food, medicine, clothing. I think the ripple effects of suddenly removing a massive consumer marketplace would crash markets across the world. \n\n\nThere are plenty of problems with this suggestion that the US try to legislate working conditions in the rest of the world by refusing trade.", "Notice how it's deleted now. I simply read every single comment from the top of the page. I noticed that I read the same sentence above in a different comment. I used Cmd + f to find the key phrase and sure enough there was the original paragraph that had the sentence. Then I hovered over the user that I was calling out as a bot and sure enough the account was less than a week old. Now they deleted their comment because I busted them. This is the information warfare age. They post a sensitive issue like this child labor and then use bots to amplify any hasty phrasing that would discredit the original comment. I mentioned the user in another comment. Their comment was a paragraph of accurate, insightful analysis. There was however a claim that was going to be hard to provide evidence for and they were repeating just that sentence throughout the thread. In order to distort and distract from the real issues.\n\n\nEDIT: changed hasting to hasty, it was a spelling error.", "Battery recycling is a farce", "I think you need to read more books.", "yep absolutely true. i agree. my comment was mostly directed at not having so much chips, so powerful you can man a ship to the moon several million times, only to jerk of on pornhub.", "> but you seem to be seeing capital everywhere in here\n\nPlease read usernames. Not everyone who calls you out on your bullshit is invested in the pointless argument you've been having.\n\n>I would really like to get your view point.\n\nI don't care. I'm not here to debate you.", "That's mad... This is creepy stuff. We need to fight this", ">No, using the free market is capitalism. <-- my earlier comment\n\n \nThank you for showing where I made an error. \nI meant to say the Free Market is not the same as Capitalism as they are 2 distinct economic systems.\n\nHave made the appropriate edit. Thanks again!\n\nNow, your wall of text aside, America has the intellectual and financial wealth to implement the socialist policies whenever they want. They just choose not to. \n\nThe feeble, mostly token efforts to provide the socialist programs that you mention are not a FOCUS of your economic model. \n\nWelfare (at least in America) is often a pejorative used when describing SOCIALIST PROGRAMS. A rose by any other name is still a rose so call it welfare if you want, it doesn't change the FACT that it is inherently a socialist doctrine. It certainly IS NOT a tenet of capitalism.\n\nSo respectfully, GTFO of here with your equivocation because it is incorrect and reeks of intellectual dishonesty. \n\nAmerica has a particular flavour of capitalism which is the one that I am decrying.\n\nI've been careful to use democratic socialist countries that focus on socialist programs as my example of something superior to Americas flavour of capitalism.\n\nYou are nitpicking nomenclature theory while I am using examples where the rubber meets the road to demonstrate my position.\n\nAnyway, this whole thing started when I pointed out your hypocrisy of saying socialism always leads to \"inefficiencies and state corruption\" when those same things exist in America.\n\nI will admit that it was my bad to engage you when you shifted the burden of proof to me to defend a position that I never took. I should've been smarter and not fed the troll.", "Not to mention the pressures of Western-trend economic demands felt globally.", "There's a huge difference between people being kidnapped and dragged away to slavery, and people born into abject poverty where slavery just happens.\n\nThat's the difference in those 2 scenarios, not skin color.", "GM didn't kill the electric car; a lack of market demand for a vehicle with 40 miles of range killed the electric car. Tesla's success where GM failed can largely be attributed to the timing of their efforts, when an immense amount of Battery R&D had already been done by laptop and smartphone manufacturers. And make no mistake; Elon musk and Tesla care very little about the future of the environment. Tesla and SpaceX are simply plays to corner the market on Energy distribution.", ">So respectfully, GTFO of here with your equivocation because it is incorrect and reeks of intellectual dishonesty.\n\nOh god the complete and utter lack of self awareness. No, I'm not using a false equivocation.\n\n> America has the intellectual and financial wealth to implement the socialist policies whenever they want. They just choose not to.\n\nIt objectively does not. You're completely clueless. You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?\n\n>You are nitpicking nomenclature theory while I am using examples where the rubber meets the road to demonstrate my position\n\nNo you aren't. I'm not nitpicking anything. I'm accurately defining economic concepts.\n\n>Welfare (at least in America) is often a pejorative used when describing SOCIALIST PROGRAMS.\n\nIT'S NOT FUCKING SOCIALISM. THAT'S NOT WHAT FUCKING SOCIALISM IS. IT'S A MISNOMER\n\n>I will admit that it was my bad to engage you when you shifted the burden of proof to me to defend a position that I never took. \n\nYou literally just said \"America has the intellectual and financial wealth to implement the socialist policies\"\n\n>I've been careful to use democratic socialist countries that focus on socialist programs as my example of something superior to Americas flavour of capitalism\n\nTHE NORDIC SYSTEM IS NOT SOCIALIST. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS SINCE ECONOMIC REFORMS IN THE 80'S. THEY ARE WELFARE CAPITALISTS.\n\n> I should've been smarter and not fed the troll.\n\nThinking the same thing. You're either supremely dense and will take any measure to avoid cognitive dissonance, or you're a troll who is fucking with me, because there is no way any functional human can react this way.", "Worked out decently for loads of American food-service industry workers this year that employers were previously relying on tips from others to pay. WE were able to just stop, and be able to do something else for income until the strike worked out in our favor, but I don’t think it’s that simple for these people. \n\nSomething tells me that the impoverishment and the powers that perpetuate such injustice won’t be so keen on letting that kind of change occur in such a localized nation that’s already characterized by oppression of its (already suffering) population. They likely won’t have to take any strike-related behavior that seriously anyway if these people are working for next to nothing entirely out of necessity", "Hmm that is interesting and of course nice to say. What about this from 2020? \"Elon Musk is giving his rivals the heavy metal blues. By securing 6,000 tonnes a year of cobalt directly from mining giant Glencore’s Democratic Republic of Congo operations\"\n\n[Link](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-congo-breakingviews/breakingviews-tesla-kills-three-birds-with-one-congolese-stone-idUSKBN23O1JX)", "Now list all the companies and brands that both directly and indirectly benefit from forced child labor and watch everyone on here continue to use said brands. \nCough, Apple...", "Did you not watch the video? It's for batteries mostly", " You literally just said \"America has the intellectual and financial wealth to implement the socialist policies\"\n\nYeah, after I was goaded into defending a position that had nothing to do with my original comment which was\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Lol, show me a capitalist country that doesn't have inefficiencies and state corruption.\n\nRegardless of what was said after your hypocritical comment, you haven't refuted my point.", "Hmm what about this from 2020? \"Elon Musk is giving his rivals the heavy metal blues. By securing 6,000 tonnes a year of cobalt directly from mining giant Glencore’s Democratic Republic of Congo operations\"\n\n[Link](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-congo-breakingviews/breakingviews-tesla-kills-three-birds-with-one-congolese-stone-idUSKBN23O1JX)", "I have spent many months in about 20 countries in Africa and have experienced the corruption first hand many times. Yet banks and thousands of businesses handling lots of money do function because they have the correct systems in place, just as they do in Europe to stymie corruption, where for example batches of goods are transported elsewhere and independently checked.\n\nAFAIK warlords do not control mining and mineral areas anymore, according to the Guardian that ended many years ago.\n\nEdit: The government 'fair price' shops, obviously earn the government money and really asking why they would put them in is like asking why they would put street lighting in - it very obviously represents a basic improvement for the people of the country.\n\nIn fact I have just noticed the DRC is* putting in a state controlled system to buy the Cobalt to clean up the system\n\n[https://www.ft.com/content/90d2116a-4437-11ea-a43a-c4b328d9061c](https://www.ft.com/content/90d2116a-4437-11ea-a43a-c4b328d9061c)\n\nThey are working with a company which has helped artisnal miners in the past\n\n\"As for tracing artisanally mined minerals, EGC will rely on blockchain technology to track cobalt throughout the value chain.\n\nEGC has chosen Trafigura and Pact as partners due to their successful collaboration on the Mutoshi site, near Kolwezi, where a responsible artisanal cooperative was formalised from January 2018 to March 2020, in conjunction with the cobalt producer Chemaf, holder of the mining concession.\n\nAccording to them, this collaboration has led to an increase in production and income for the members of the cooperative, an increase in the proportion of women and, above all, a drastic reduction in pollution and accidents. In fact, there have been no mining-related deaths.\"\n\n[https://www.theafricareport.com/78130/drc-gecamines-takes-over-the-artisanal-cobalt-mining-sector/](https://www.theafricareport.com/78130/drc-gecamines-takes-over-the-artisanal-cobalt-mining-sector/)\n\nSo in a nut shell your posts about needing root and branch reform of the country when the exact improvements I was talking about are already taking place were completely wrong. If you really think I am naive - I really don't want to know - please keep that bullshit to yourself.", "Exactly, we don´t have any \"true\" capitalist country or true communist, true democratic or true socialistic in the world because you need a little bit of everything to not end up in human suffering.What do you then call a country that uses free market for most parts, strong welfare from the state, have planned economy when it comes to certen things like here in sweden? Can you label a singel country as anything with your way? What would you label Sweden?\n\nplease give exempels.", "As I mentioned Tesla still uses cobalt in their long range vehicles, although they use a lot less than other manufacturers. Here's [Tesla's impact report](https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf) where they outline in detail (page 44) how they ensure the cobalt is ethically sourced.\n\nElon mentioned in Sept that Tesla will be going completely cobalt free soon, likely by using their new cobalt free 4680 batteries for long range.\n\n\"We use no cobalt at all in most of our cars & tiny amounts in others (going to zero soon)\" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1441851891000889350", "Sure that's great and all now but I'd say too little too late. Children were mining for Tesla at 6000 TONNES a year and Elon only then stopped when Glencore got sued for using Child Labour. Fuck Elon.", "Except you could die of a paper cut and many of your children would die in infantcy.", "I don't know what you are referring to? Tesla has been physically visting mines for years to ensure children aren't being used. Here's the [2018 report](https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2018-tesla-impact-report.pdf) as an example which outlines their responsible sourcing controls.", "Watch the video maybe?", "Dude you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. This is the entire text of the 13th ammendment:\n\nNeither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.\n\nIt explicitly states that slavery and involuntary servitude are legal as a punishment for a convicted criminal. To say that slavery is banned in our country is completely false.", "LOL anyone can make a report buddy especially a rich company. Tesla was using Glencore for 6k tons a year. [Glencore got sued for \"Extreme abuse and child labour\"](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/glencore-congo-cobalt-mining-lawsuit/45446800)\n\n“In my 35 years as a human rights lawyer, I’ve never seen such extreme abuse of innocent children on a large scale,” said the plaintiffs’ lead counsel, Terry Collingsworth, when presenting the claim in a statement. “This astounding cruelty and greed need to stop.”", "And I suppose you do", "We are no different from any other animal really except the lion doesn't feel guilty eating the zebra.", "Its been like this since the start of time. Slavery has always been a thing.", "Communism means there are no oppressive hierarchies that is innately a part of a communist society and slavery is an oppressive hierarchy. Communism is more extensive than just an economic system.", "You could watch it.", "Sure the Chinese don't ask where it comes from but I think it's mostly local 'run'.", "Anyone can also file a lawsuit accusing all the biggest tech firms bud. I think what matters is Tesla appears to be doing everything possible to ethically source cobalt as outlined in their reports and are moving away from it as quickly as possible with their new batteries, as it's very difficult to source 100% ethically as shown by the lawsuit.\n\nYour hate for Elon seems misplaced given the efforts they are going to relative to other manufacturers that still use 20-33% cobalt in their batteries. The phone you use has cobalt from DRC so are you going to give up electronics yourself to avoid being part of the issue?", "> or at least one that significantly reduces the amount of cobalt needed\n\nThat is happening, and is ongoing. They're continually exploring new chemistries, and eliminating or minimizing cobalt is generally a key metric.", "And also in the refining of petroleum for fuel.", "It's not cheaper. The reason companies don't use slave labour elsewhere is because it's illegal and those laws are enforced. The DRC needs the resource to do that.", "It can be more than one person's fault, but without a doubt the warlords are included in that.", "Don't forget they are using the cobolt to manufacture many of the things we in the west are buying", "Cobalt is \"in\" because it started as an attack on electric vehicles. Though a great number have moved to LFP batteries, which are cobalt-free, so now it's the lithium that is horrible and destroying the world. \n\nBut yeah, my chocolate and coffee also entail exploitation. And the palm oil in probably most of the products in my pantry. No idea about the spice rack, but agriculture in general is high in exploitative labor.", "Only for non-performance models, which have LFP batteries. But even for performance models, each iteration of battery chemistry is reducing cobalt percentages.", "Competition stops them. They could go even lower in their prices to attract customers than they do if they could reduce their costs further by using child slave labour. But that's illegal where they operate. If products are too expensive for anyone to buy without being produced using child slave labour, then yes, those products would no longer exist. I suspect people would pay more for many electronics though, and that manufacturers could reduce costs through finding other production methods if they had to.", "I don't think it needs to be. My experience living in Africa and South East Asia showed me that people don't need to be exploited for society to function and everyone can be fed, healthy and educated without slavery.", "Warlord lol. Where do Americans get their ideas about Africa?", "You're giving people too much credit. People tend to abuse power, whether it's big corp or a local farmer profiting from people working on his farm. People abuse power and resources. \n\n- Stanford prison experiment\n- Milgram experiment", "And support Comcast (I see a Sky News logo on the thumbnail) with ad revenue/view count to the algorithm for masking their exploitation as bringing \"awareness\" to an issue that nobody can do anything about.\n\nNo Thanks.", "Stop. You are not revealing some profound knowledge to anyone. \n\nYou don't get to reassign China's sins to the west because the west is the consumer. \n\nThe west has thousands of laws in place to prevent slavery, child labor etc. China hides behind \"we are a developing nation\" and world governing bodies look the other way. \n\nI harbor 0 guilt over what China does and what World Governing bodies don't do. The best I can do is try my best to not buy anything made in China.", "LOL, what is your basis for your claims about Musk/Tesla not caring about the environment other than your own cynicism?", "Have you ever asked yourself why those are the alternatives that come to mind, or why an economy would be considered developing? It is truly some enlightening and horrifying stuff.", "in 2008 China alleged that it exported more cement than that other statistics showed was used worldwide in that year. Don't rely too much on the accuracy of Chinese data.", "At these cobalt mines of theirs in the DRC. It's what this thread is about.", "So in healthcare, dentalcare, education, and childcare we are socialist but we cant call ourself that?", "Those are welfare programs. Those aren't socialism. There is a difference. They are not the same thing.\n\nWe aren't socialist in healthcare, dentalcare, education, or childcare. If we where, the government would be running these industries and determining pricing.", "That's much more doable, since you're now just looking at within the DRC, but you're missing with the middleman. It would increase what the miners get, but not by as much as you seem to think.\n\n\nCobalt is sold at a low price from the DRC to China to be refined. From there it's again sold at a low price (though much higher) to parts manufacturer. \n\nYou'd get a marginal increase in what the miners get. You're talking about a minor scam that happens probably when they're selling it to the owners of the mines.", "Goaded? Mate I haven't goaded you into anything. That was what you said. That was the point you made. Don't blame me because you don't know what you're talking about and you're trying to cover. It's not my fault you didn't actually know what socialism was.\n\n>Regardless of what was said after your hypocritical comment, you haven't refuted my point.\n\nThe corruption and inefficiencies inherent to Capitalism are by orders of magnitude less problematic than those inherent to Socialism. The proof is in the pudding. There has never been a successful socialist state that did not collapse economically. Period.", ">What do you then call a country that uses free market for most parts, strong welfare from the state, have planned economy\n\nSweden does not use a planned economy. It uses a free market economy. What industry in Sweden uses a planned economy? Welfare from the state is not socialist. Welfare from the state does not represent socialism. Welfare from the state is not exclusive to socialism. That's not what socialism is. You thinking socialism is welfare from the state, or high taxes, or any of those things, is a misnomer.\n\n>Can you label a singel country as anything with your way? What would you label Sweden?\n\nIt's called [welfare capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_capitalism). But at the end of the day it's just capitalism economically, with high taxes and a robust welfare program. None of that is socialist, or exclusive to socialism. People who think it's socialism don't understand what they're talking about.\n\nSocialism is a specific way of organizing the economy where the state expropriates industry so that they can control pricing. \n\nSo here's an example of how the two systems would each spend taxpayer money to build roads.\n\nIn socialism, the government uses that money to build the industry that makes roads. Private competition is not allowed to exist. It must construct the infrastructure on a nation wide scale as its the only industry that can build roads. (Therefore controls the prices)\n\nIn capitalism, the government uses that money to hire a regional contracting firm that builds roads. And bridges. and installs power cables and sensors for traffic lights. Prices are based on their value on the market.\n\nSocialism pretty much doesn't exist. Every nation that has tried (Venezuela, China, Cuba, Korea) has either economically collapsed or adopted a more Capitalist approach.", "\"Not a complicated situation.\"\n\nYou wanna about face and explain how all the things are already in motion, sure. Great. I believe that. But speaking about why they are not yet that way? And what has needed to happen to get on the way? You think that's not complicated?\n\nAlso, the middle part with blockchain and diversity sounds like the most hilarious bullshit sales pitch I've ever heard. Buzzwordy nonsense.", "You are right it does not need to be but it has been since man could first think for himself.", "Nice dodge. Wont get me again.\n\nYour comment wasn't implying capitalism had less corruption. It was implying it didn't have it at all.\n\nThat was the hypocrisy I called out.\n\nSimple.\n\nWhen called out, instead of clarifying your point, you engaged in whataboutism.\n\nThis was the deflection that I pointed out earlier.\n\nInstead of acknowledging this, you again tried to make me defend a position that was never stated in my original comment. \n\nThis was the intellectually dishonesty I accused you of.\n\nGet it?", "Slavery is a condition in which one human being was owned by another. A slave is considered by law as property, or chattel, and was deprived of most of the rights ordinarily held by free persons. They were objects of the law, not its subjects. \n\n\nTHIS....no longer exists in the United States. Prisoners are not slaves. Involuntary servitude is not slavery. Nothing you say will change that. \n\n\nThis isn't up for debate.", "I answered your question, so I'm engaging in whataboutism? Where did I deflect? Where is the hypocrisy? What the fuck are you talking about? How is directly addressing your point a dodge? Do you just throw these words out without any idea of what they mean? You're completely clueless. \n\nQuit spamming my inbox troll. If you can't deal with your cognitive dissonance quit bothering me with it.", "How about the fact that Musk and Tesla are vehemently against right-to-repair? \"Reduce-Reuse-Recycle\" are listed in order of impact in creating a more sustainable future, and Tesla actively undermining people's ability to reduce their consumption and reuse that which they already have clearly demonstrates that to Tesla, \"sustainability\" is simply a means to Trojan horse a future where no one owns anything and everyone must constantly pay subscriptions to massive corporations to do even the most basic things.", "So free or very low fixed prices, and the \"government\" running all those things or give someone money to run it for them under their supervision and with fixed pricing so even poor can afford it, and if they can't they get it for free. \nYou are mixing up socialism and communism.", "Wow. Yea tell that to everyone who needs to commute to work.\n\nAlso you turned hostile af real fast. Maybe get some therapy for that anger", "Sure that's of evidence that Musk/Tesla are greedy and prioritize profits, but they recycle their batteries and parts when they do the repairs.\n\nThis is not evidence of not caring about the environment it's evidence of greed.", "Not complicated in that the miners are being ripped off by middle men and there are ways simple ways around it. They have put in a fairly simple solution to use a company that currently deals with mining to step into that sector. Amazon sell some software for blockchain tracking which I agree sounds like crap, but makes perfect sense if you take the time to understand it. \n\n[https://aws.amazon.com/blockchain/blockchain-for-supply-chain-track-and-trace/](https://aws.amazon.com/blockchain/blockchain-for-supply-chain-track-and-trace/)\n\nThe OP's video is old.", "> You are mixing up socialism and communism.\n\nI'm really not. Communism is \"the next step\", wherein the state no longer has need for things like currency. \n\nThe problem is you can't dictate value to humans. It's a nebulous, ever changing concept that needs to be determined dynamically. It's why these systems fail.\n\nLet me put it like this. What is the value of bread in your area? Would that value change if there was a famine?", "The whole thing broke my heart but when the father said \"you know you are my best friend\" that really is what got me. He knew he was sending his son away and his life would get harder but it was for having a chance to have a different life than he did.", "haha, holier than thou, aren't you precious...", "I've clearly and simply laid out my points above.\n\nIf you do not understand then maybe your accusations of cognitive dissonance are merely projection on your part?\n\nI dunno, its really hard to judge someone based on the written word alone.\n\nLet me try and dumb it down even further...\n\nYou: make an implication that capitalism is without corruption/inefficiencies\n\nMe: call out the hypocrisy of your implication\n\nYou: instead of acknowledging my point, you engage in whataboutism \"name a socialist country etc etc\" which is the deflection I mentioned above.\n\nMe: takes the bait (stupidly, I'll admit) gives an example of democratic socialist countries that focus on socialist programs (me being forced to defend a position that I did not enter the discussion to do and is COMPLETELY irrelevant to my point that your implication was hypocritical.\n\nYour tactic (whataboutism/deflection) is the intellectual dishonesty that I referred to above.\n\nPHEW!\n\nThis is as simple as I can make it for you short of busting out the crayon box.\n\nComprende?", "> make an implication that capitalism is without corruption/inefficiencies\n\nLiterally never said that. Never implied that. That's what's called a strawman. Talk about dishonesty. But I'm sure you'll try and desperately twist the context of what I did say to suit your narrative, since you're completely incapable of self reflection and that from what I can tell is your go to when you're backed into a corner rather than deal with the idea that you're wrong.\n\n>If you do not understand then maybe your accusations of cognitive dissonance are merely projection on your part?\n\nNo mate. It's not projection. You don't know what you're talking about. If you aren't experiencing cognitive dissonance then you are just not that smart.\n\n>you engage in whataboutism \"name a socialist country etc etc\n\nI answered your question, and asked my own. That's not a whataboutism. You don't know what these words mean. You're proposing socialist policies. I'm asking you a basic question about them.\n\nAnd before you say \"well I never said anything about \"pure\" socialism, like the dishonest moron you are..\n\n>America has the intellectual and financial wealth to implement the socialist policies whenever they want. They just choose not to.\n\n>Democratic socialist countries that adopt socialist policies\n\nSo what, are \"socialist policies\" not socialism in your insane person logic?\n\n>Gives an example of democratic socialist countries that focus on socialist programs\n\nThey're not fucking socialist. I've said it time and time and time again. If you're to dense to understand this, there's no helping you. Fuck I need to bust out the crayons here.\n\nTHAT. IS. NOT. WHAT. SOCIALISM. IS. You don't know what socialism is. Period. End of conversation. Go away.\n\nComprende? Of course you don't. Quit spamming my inbox, you're too stupid to realize how wrong you are and too dense to show an iota of self reflection. Contrition for being wrong isn't something you'd ever even consider. So just fuck off already", "\"Africa\" is a continent. How most of the people of Africa are living has little to do with how the individuals in the video are living.", "I did but I was Sunday-scaries drunk.", ">We have tons of history that pretty clearly demonstrates that the state cannot command industry. There isn't a single example of a state succesfully expropriating industry and managing it effectively. It pretty much always collapses to inefficencies and state corruption.\n\nThese are your own words (spelling errors included) said in defense of capitalism. The clear implication is that capitalism does not contain \"inefficiencies and state corruption\"\n\nThats hypocrisy - plain and simple.\n\nDo you acknowledge that?", "...Really? Is that the best you could come up with? It's hard to tell if you're really that dense or just trolling. I mean you can't be that dumb, right? You've got to be just trying to fuck with me. Please tell me you're just trolling. Either way, called it.\n\nNothing in that statement implies anything about Capitalism. It doesn't even contain the word. It's clearly talking about the problems in socialism. On top of that your interpretation directly contradicts what I've directly said on the matter. Talking about corruption in socialism doesn't imply that capitalism has no corruption. What the fuck sort of insane logic leads you too that conclusion?\n\nI already know the answer to that. The kind that desperately doesn't want to admit they're wrong, so they'll do anything to avoid that. That's called cognitive dissonance.\n\n>Do you acknowledge that?\n\nNo. The only thing I acknowledge is you're by far the most dense person I've ever encountered on this platform, and that's saying something. I'm honestly astonished. Please tell me you're just trolling and I took the bait. Otherwise I honestly might need to reassess how stupid and self deceptive people can be, because this is something else.", "Industrial mining is cheaper than hand mining if you don’t realize this I don’t know what else to say other than you shouldn’t be taking about it.", ">Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.\n\nThe economic system was capitalism. The point is, slavery never left and we have the largest incarceration by far because of capitalism's need for cheap labor. Hell forget prison labor, our entire supply chain is riddled with slave labor enterprises and we just go \"oopsies\" whenever it gets found out then keep doing it.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n> But are we really pretending like we have accurate incarceration numbers from the worlds most notoriously tolitarian nations?\n\nThere is absolutely no need to pretend. Other countries simply don't have the resources to imprison enough people to make up 22% of the world's prison population. The cost is extraordinary and without a military strong enough to fight off rebellion, it would never last. Don't forget that while being the largest carceral state in the world, you also live in one of the most heavily propagandized populations in the world.", "Yes. Things could absolutely be done, however. Just nothing that’s really in the interest of developed countries that justifies the investment in economic terms - hence we just get the usual mix of under funded good intentions and cold resource exploitation.", "I've wondered about this, because I've heard of some companies , like the tuna company referenced in the netflix documentary about fishing, and how they claim they get theirs responsibly sourced but evidence shows otherwise.", ">The point is, slavery never left and we have the largest incarceration by far because of capitalism's need for cheap labor.\n\nCheap labor is not the reason incarceration is so high. That's completely baseless. Low skill labor inherently has no value as it stands.\n\nAre you really suggesting that there's some sort of rebellion being suppressed by incarceration? That our military is being applied to our own citizens to keep them from rising up? Have you ever been to the U.S.?\n\n> our entire supply chain is riddled with slave labor enterprises and we just go \"oopsies\" whenever it gets found out then keep doing it.\n\nThis has literally never happened. The US hasn't had slaves on its soil since the 13th amendment. There is no \"exporting\" of slavery either that can be blamed on the US. That's an issue of a globalized economy, that every nation takes part in.\n\n>Other countries simply don't have the resources to imprison enough people to make up 22% of the world's prison population.\n\nYea they just [get rid of them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide) huh? The point is we don't have anything even remotely close to accurate numbers for places that China, or the DPRK, so 22% is meaningless. It's literally only applied to the first world in the west, where the US has more population than every other nation by orders of magnitude.\n\nNot really fair to compare the US to Denmark when one has 330 million people and open borders and the other has 5* million people and turns away refugees.", "Sorry, I was under the impression that you are aware of the words you have posted. My bad. Here is your full post that I quoted a portion of - I've bolded the pertinent words to help you along.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>It absolutely is liberal. A true capitalist society did end slavery. laissez-faire capitalism isn't the only form of capitalism, and nobody is trying to suggest it as an option. Nobody is talking about capitalism without regulation, most just want removal of regulatory capture, which is reflective of state corruption. \n> \n>Laws that allow individuals private property rights and free trade are by definition liberal. The state commanding industry, on the other hand, is not. How are private property and free trade rights not liberal? The entire point is allowing the individual the capacity to create industry themselves and agency over their own property. \n> \n>Capitalism has been historically extremely effective at reducing poverty and generating wealth for individuals across income brackets. \n> \n>It doesn't promote slavery. The fact that it follows the morality of the general populace is a good thing. Again, capitalist nations where among the first and across the board rejected slavery. \n> \n>We have tons of history that pretty clearly demonstrates that the state cannot command industry. There isn't a single example of a state succesfully expropriating industry and managing it effectively. It pretty much always collapses to inefficencies and state corruption.\n\nIts interesting that you have devolved into ad hominem attacks and hyperbole.\n\nIf both capitalism and socialism contain \"inefficiencies and state corruption\" then you cannot use said problems to blast one while giving the other a free pass. If you acknowledge that that they both contain it, why bring it up in the first place?", "Bruh your entire argument has been ad hominems. You legit don't see how the majority of your argument has been based on insulting and misrepresenting me? Christ man, clutch your pearls I guess. I'm tired of dealing with you. You've literally lowered the human standard for me. You have no idea how little respect I have for you. Not because you're dense, but because you're incapable of basic self awareness. \n\nThere's literally nothing there that states what you say it does. Nothing. At all. Whatsoever. The statement you first posted made no mention of capitalism at all. This quote doesn't state that capitalism is free of corruption. You're desperately trying to make it up to avoid feeling like a fool. The only one you're even trying to convince is yourself. \n\nSince apparently asking you repeatedly to quit spamming my inbox isn't working, I'm just going to block you. \n\nYou're the dumbest, most dishonest person I've ever had the pleasure of engaging on this platform. I hope you understand what that means, but I doubt it. True to who you are, you'll just reject any self reflection and convince yourself you weren't denser than lead. You're the reason they say you can't argue with idiots. Bye.", "The fact that you need to pretend that totalitarian countries have WAAAAY higher prison populations so that you can pretend that the united states is super free and awesome is proof in and of itself. If America is so free, why the fuck are so many people in prison. An entire race of people did not have the right to vote even 50 years ago, and today they are kept from exerting their political power.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nFUCKING LISTEN TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!! The doublethink should be making every alarm bell in your head go off. We in the states are so heavily propagandized that most don't even realize it. I want you to have food in your belly, a roof over your head, healthcare for when you're sick, an education so that you are the best possible version of yourself, and the freedom to exercise your humanity and individuality. It is incredible that my position is considered radical while children starving so that billionaires can make more money is status quo.", ">If America is so free, why the fuck are so many people in prison.\n\nBecause people use deceptive statistics to manipulate people like you into thinking it's a massive problem, when the reality is simple. We have a massive population. \n\n>An entire race of people did not have the right to vote even 50 years ago\n\nand 80 years ago that was the norm worldwide. We where 30 years late in adapting that. Most nations are still identarian. The US is extremely progressive, despite what propaganda would tell you. Are you aware we have the most open border policy in the world? Are you aware that since 1987, we've led the world in remittances? \n\n>FUCKING LISTEN TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!! The doublethink should be making every alarm bell in your head go off. We in the states are so heavily propagandized that most don't even realize it.\n\nMate you have no idea how funny this statement is to me. I hope one day you honestly see how propaganda effects you. Maybe you'll come to the same realization I did. But you should know, that for a long period I held similar beliefs. Think critically about why a nation ethnically cleansing a portion of its population for the sake of 'superior han' is constantly tweeting the rhetoric you're currently using.\n\n> I want you to have food in your belly, a roof over your head, healthcare for when you're sick, an education so that you are the best possible version of yourself, and the freedom to exercise your humanity and individuality. \n\nYep, and I want that for everyone too. That's why I fight as hard as I can to lead people away from Socialism and show them what it really is, because so much propaganda has convinced so many people it's just welfare, while any corruption endemic to the state is the fault of Capitalism. Socialism is a specific economic theory.\n\n>It is incredible that my position is considered radical while children starving so that billionaires can make more money is status quo.\n\nOkay you honestly don't see how ridiculous this statement is? That's propaganda. Right there. Where did you hear that idea first, honestly? That Capitalism is when children starve for the sake of billionaires? Because that's not what Capitalism is. Capitalism across the board has reduced poverty in every nation that has implemented it. That's the objective truth. This has lead to a global reduction of poverty across the last 100 years. You can easily verify this. Is it perfect? No. Has it improved the lives of Billions of people? Yes.\n\nNobody wants children to starve for the sake of billionaires. That's a strawman used to discredit a position. Socialism will not feed those children. Breaking down liberal economic systems that have done nothing but improve quality of life for people for nearly a century because it isn't doing it fast enough is not either.", "I'll admit to being rather snarky and sarcastic but I haven't stooped to ad hominem attacks. Thats all you buddy!\n\nBye bye guy. I suppose running away is a valid tactic for some.\n\nedit: by the way, I am not spamming your inbox. I am replying to a public post on a public forum. You can disable notifications in your profile settings. I assumed that super basic things like this were widely understood but here we are. Happy to help!", "According to you, BUt even if that were true, they have the money. They get to decide what does or doesn't happen in them.", "you have no idea what you are talking about. especially if you use people in the top and use communism as an example of such system. One specifically designed to have no top.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nJust because capitalism hasn't been described doesn't mean a capitalist system wasn't in place to help exploitation.", "literally wall of thesaurus text\n\n\"Speak plainly\"\n\nLmfao choose 1 nerd\n\nAnd nice superiority complex, you must be so much fun to talk to.\n\nAlso have you ever taken public transportation in a city? I highly advise you try it then come back. Privileged fuck..\n\n\nOh and also what anger? Lmao. My comment was pretty neutral. Cute projection though", "Nobody wants the Fairphone because it doesn’t have the fastest processor. We are a sick species.", "The value of the bread changes no matter what system the country is using, every communist country have used currency.. \nCommunism and socialism is different in way more ways then that. You are plainly wrong. The countries you mentioned where all communist not socialist.", "ok, boomer", ">Communism and socialism is different in way more ways then that.\n\nThat was an example. That wasn't the entirety of the differences.\n\n>You are plainly wrong. The countries you mentioned where all communist not socialist.\n\nI'm getting really tired of defining socialism for people. No, I know what I'm talking about, that's what socialism is.", "Welfare programs = socialist programs.\n\nIn a socialist society you move money from the wealthy to the poor with high taxes not with government owned companies, except healthcare and education.\nSocialism is also when you try to limit the power of kapitalism with unions and regulations (min wage etc)\n\nKapitalism is when the wealthy takes from the poor and do everything they can to keep it from the poor, a free market without regulations that exploits the workers.\n\nCommunism = one elite takes it all and everyone else is poor. The marked is totalt controlled by the government\nAnd the workers are exploited to the point it becomes slavery.\n\nWhat would you label the Scandinavian countries and most European? \nIs I'm understanding you correctly you would label them kapitalist, and that's wrong.\n\nRedestribution of money from the rich to the poor = socialism\nIn communism the aim is for everyone to equally rich/poor(always end in starvation)", "Then you know jack shit, that's socialism right before or way beyond into communism mixed with fascism. And still they used currency even the usssr used currency that argument is retarded.", "Check out Redwood Materials. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/03/25/tesla-cofounders-battery-recycling-startup-ties-up-with-top-us-e-waste-processor/?sh=237038c1595e\n\nThey are reporting high recovery rates and saying it will be cheaper than mining.", "Then it wasn't \"real communism.\" \n\nI wonder what it was then..", "> In a socialist society you move money from the wealthy to the poor with high taxes not with government owned companies, except healthcare and education. Socialism is also when you try to limit the power of kapitalism with unions and regulations \n\nThat's exactly what I'm trying to tell you socialism is not. This isn't what socialism is. Socialism is a specific economic system. That economic system is built off of expropriating industry to control pricing. You can easily look this up. I'm not lying too you. Go verify. It has nothing to do with high taxes, though that tends to be an element. It has nothing to do with \"limiting capitalism\", they're literally mutually exclusive. It isn't welfare programs like healthcare and education. That isn't what socialism is. You fundamentally are misunderstanding. Capitalism isn't some magic catch all for corruption. It's a specific economic system built with the idea of open markets and private property. You're arguing between \"everyone can create industry\" and \"The state creates industry\". Just go look up socialism man none of this is a misrepresentation.\n\n>What would you label the Scandinavian countries and most European? Is I'm understanding you correctly you would label them kapitalist, and that's wrong.\n\nThe Prime minster of norway said his nation was capitalist, and was tired of people in the west calling it socialist. You don't know what socialism is. Spelling capitalist with a K doesn't change that you don't know what these systems are.", "> People are forced to endure slave like conditions because capitalism determines power/wealth and who's allowed to have it. \n\nWhat happened to the days before capitalism? Go back a few centuries. Still free? No, still same working conditions. Go back a few millennia. Still free? No, still same working conditions.\n\nSo when, where, what economic system, and how widespread was this utopia that doesn't relate to capitalism where the poor weren't being screwed?", "Doesn't seem too much like an arms race, unless you meant an arm that's slapping regulations away like they were nothing.", "Sure why not? But It’s probably easier for snarky people like yourself to just ignore certain things.", "Pointing out other systems that were also unethical is completely irrelevant to how capitalism is unethical. Capitalism is better than feudalism, which was better than the master/slave relation, but that doesn't mean capitalism isn't free from criticism. It's always astonishing to me how butthurt people get when you point out very obvious problems with capitalism. There is no perfect system, but their are alternatives better to capitalism, especially where the workplace is democratic, and the goals of society are dictated by the well being of society rather than by what makes the most profit. These also tend to lack hierarchical structures. The problem is, these societies don't usually last long because they are crushed by powerful forces. But it's all irrelevant to the flaws I pointed out in capitalism. They still exist regardless.", "Your point is that capitalism is screwed up. I'm not disagreeing.\n\nMy argument is that your comment implies there was a time when things were better under some other system. They were not.\n\nI'm not butthurt that you're picking on capitalism. I don't care about capitalism and it seems odd to defend an economic system. My point is that the previous systems were also bad.\n\nIf someone says that X is bad but doesn't offer a better alternative then they're just complaining rather than offering solutions.\n\nFor instance, let's take another claim entirely and say that there's a comment that we don't have freedom. An easy response to that is that in the history of our species, we mostly didn't but then we have representative democracy which - while not perfect - allows for more freedom than, say, dictatorships or monarchies. So you can point to a system that directly counters the claim with a better example.\n\nI don't see this example in your comment and it seems like you're just complaining about one economic system as if that's the root of all evil. This predates civilization and the economic system that runs it doesn't matter. Some systems are better than others but all exploit the poor and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future.", ">My argument is that your comment implies there was a time when things were better under some other system. They were not.\n\nWhatever implication you are seeing is something you are adding in. I also just explained that I do not think that.\n\n>If someone says that X is bad but doesn't offer a better alternative then they're just complaining rather than offering solutions.\n\nHaving a valid criticism is not equal to complaining. Perhaps we don't currently have a solution. Does that mean that we shouldn't point out flaws to encourage us to find solutions. We currently don't have a way to reconcile the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. Is pointing that out complaining?", "France doesn’t do all it can to help out these colonies, that’s true.\n\nHowever, I have no idea why you keep trying to defend this little toothbrush argument… it makes no sense at all the way you’re putting it, and the other person has explained to you like 5 times in so many different ways why you’re wrong. \n\nYou are the one with reading comprehension issues. Look how many people are against you. You’re wrong. You’re just wrong man.", "The 4680s will move to zero cobalt. They'll be nickel or nickel-manganese.", "Of course they do. If they had an issue with the human rights violations, they wouldn't give that mine any money, or they would only do so on the conditions that the human rights violations stop.\n\nBut they don't have any issues with it, so they gladly participate in slavery.", "It's done been happened.", "In a lot of ways I feel like the reality of the Congo today is an ideal future for the have-nots in America as soon as the conservatives can get us there.", "They are not unaffiliated with the mine. It is their mine. That is where they are getting cobalt from.", "Okay then you lost the debate. What you just said perfectly describes every prisoner in the United States.", "Russia and the US had an arms race. The US was very comfortably in the lead, but was still an arms race. Same with the Brits and Russkies pre-WWI despite the Brits always maintaining a 50% lead.", "They're a very respected news channel and that reporter happens to have won numerous awards for her reports but yes just dismiss it because it's funded by a company you don't like. \n\nTell us what factual errors were in the report? What did you disagree with.", "> The west has thousands of laws in place to prevent slavery, child labor etc.\n\nBut we purposefully set policy to effectively outsource manufacturing to developing countries especially China without many if any concern about the ethical or environmental impacts because it meant a financial gain.\n\n So what good are those laws if all the lithium and cobolt came from child labour but because the factory assembled the phone it's in in China it isn't in violation? \n\nHonestly I buy cheap stuff from Amazon (from China 99% of the time) all the time because I likely couldn't afford the western alternatives so I am not moralising believe me. I'm just pointing out the governments we elect and act in our name have effectively chosen this path for us and we benefit from it too. We could demand all our products are manufactured 100% ethically but we don't.", "Yes, because China has no interest in regulating or monitoring any mines. Because they just want the cheapest product and don't care about what it takes to get it. How is this hard to understand?", "No, I'm not referring to that. That was just another failed act of leverage against a democratically elected leader Washington didn't like and represents a small fraction of the deliberate and controlling influence the US has on the politics in the region. I'll link you to an article about what's going on in Ethiopia really, in relation to US political intervention, and how the international media's narrative is particularly biased towards US allies, despite numerous genocidal acts and other crimes against humanity:\n\nhttps://foreignpolicy.com/2021/12/28/ethiopia-tigray-abiy-tplf-war-biden-needs-to-correct-course/", "You cited the \\#nomore hashtag because it's trending right now. It's trending right now because of the Biden administration's pullout of AGOA, not the intervention referenced in the article, which mentions three separate incidents occurring in 2006 Somalia(Mogadishu), a 2012 Barack Obama faux pas, and the AGOA agreement respectively. \n\nOther references are to \"Western media\" in general, which I think is ironic coming from foreignpolicy.com, a US based media conglomerate.\n\nFinally I'd also nitpick a little bit the author's choice of words. The article refers to Abiy as a \"Nobel Peace prize winner,\" but makes no mention of Obama's later in the article, implying virtue when it's convenient.\n\nThat all said, I did learn a great deal about the Ethiopian perspective. And I appreciate having that knowledge going forward.", "Read my original comment.\n\nStudies/statistics by scientists/experts > Meaningless awards by people within the industry.\n\nCurrent work as indication of current work > Previous work as indication of current work.", "Lol why do dumb people who are clearly wrong always dig their heels in instead of just staying quiet?", "And how does that help kids like this? All you're doing is diverting money away from the people who need it most", "They aren't slaves.", "I mean… indentured servants then?", "Not really", "The one where you assumed the conclusion of the report without watching it lol.\n\nI'm still waiting for a factual point you take issue with.", "This isn't r/Documentaries.\n\nIt's a news segment on a complex topic of child labor that made it on r/videos with tons and tons of spoiler heavy comments. I've read the script, I don't need to see the movie to know what happens.", "So you're just going to base your entire comment on the thoughts of others and expect to be taken seriously? Okay lol\n\nAt no point did the report suggest not buying or using products containing cobolt they just outlined the fact child labour is used in cobolt mining in the DRC and it makes it into the supply chain.", "You have a hard time comprehending more than what you just read last, but okay I will spell it out for you okay... lol.\n\nI'm not basing my entire comment on anything but the fact that child labor in a 3rd world country is a complex problem. And the fact that ANY news segment video about the topic is more than likely harming more because it leaves important things out which then will cause people to put pressure on companies to stop buying cobalt from these mines... which is exactly what happened.\n\nI'm basing my choice on not watching the video on the fact that they are making money off of it, and that the comment section is full of simple answers because the segment did not do a well job to suggest that NOT buying or using products is NOT the answer either, and that it may perhaps leave things worse in the end.\n\nTwo VERY different things.\n\nSince you will no doubt find another narrative to spin where you forget everything else I've said leading up to this, I will just block you so I never have to interact with your goldfish brain again.", "It just seems to me you have an agenda and aren't even willing to watch the thing you're critisising but whatever we're down to insults now.\n\nPersonally I don't want the news debating the pros and cons to policy that addresses the issues raised I just want to know the facts. I can then draw my own conclusions about what policy action I support or don't.\n\n> which then will cause people to put pressure on companies to stop buying cobalt from these mines... which is exactly what happened.\n\nI think it was actually the fact child labour was being used that likely caused that not the news reporting it.", "There were over 20 worldwide protests citing #nomore. Since the turmoil in Bukina Faso, even Nigier has become a strong advocate. Its trending in Kenya. This hasn't been about AGOA for months, and the fact that you can Google the trend and quickly conclude that it is, shows just how overlooked and censored this movement is right now. I'm glad you're open to new perspsctives but, if you want to get closer to the reality of the situation, try to diversify your sources to include some of the people involved in this, rather than following what's easily digestible on the MSM.\n\nThis is a pan-African movement, and if you think that the US's interference stops at withholding funds due to war crimes in Ethiopia, you've got to be uninterested or deliberately averting your gaze. Western powers are culturally, politically and financially controlling Africa, and its straight up naive to distract with finger pointing at China.", "You gave me the sources I cited. If there's a diversification problem, shouldn't I be doing more research rather than less?\n\nFor example, we can use Google trends, which searches term references and see that it's a mostly [Ethiopia-related phenomenon](https://i.imgur.com/C2YkzPR.png), and has dropped off recently.", "Upset when the US meddles, Upset when they don't. \n\n\nPick a lane.", "When did I mention communism?", "I don't meddle. I am not my country. \n\n\nAll the dead civilians at the hands of US forces have been paved with best intentions. Are you SURE you would like the US to help set laws in other countries?" ]	1,143	videos	Inside the Congo cobalt mines that exploit children
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qDGSYrtucCM&feature=share	/r/videos/comments/rp7d6q/random_snow_duck_encounter/	[ "Stfu and give us some bread, human", "Yeah they were definitely there to collect snacks.", "You should have stayed away from them. They look like quack dealers." ]	3	videos	Random Snow Duck Encounter
https://youtu.be/D6K6ETASu1E	/r/videos/comments/rp7yp8/goodnight_but_not_goodbye_starting_bea_author_the/	[ "Fair. Maybe I should say the best part. Has some heart to it not seen in the rest of the special", "I mean I don't see how this is better than like 40 minutes of wookie dialogue with no subtitles.\n\nOr grandpa's mid living room erotic fantasy.", "Can't be better than that wookie watching porn in the living room in front of his children.", "That cleanup must be horrible", "Yesss, this song is the best! I wish I could have seen Bea Arthur on Broadway back in the day.", "That part isn't even particularly good, it's just the only thing that feels close to actually being Star Wars.", "As long as he gets it in a tissue and not on his clean new Kasheets", "Grandpa Itchy spanking it in front of everyone is the best part.", "Make Bea Arthor canon again!" ]	12	videos	"Goodnight But Not Goodbye" starting Bea Author. The only good part of the Star Wars Holiday Special
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg	/r/videos/comments/rp8u6t/the_highway_where_trucks_work_like_electric_trains/	[ "Looks sparky.", "I've been arguing for this in my country since middle school.", "Why not trains. If your putting in all this infrastructure surly it would be more feasible to do the tracks too and then have hubs where electric vehicles can ship out from. With a max travel radius of 50 to 100 miles", "Most likely this is a lot more flexible. Trains require a lot more expensive infrastructure than just the power lines. Finding enough space for long, straight tracks with a very limited turning radius, massive loading and unloading stations in line with those tracks, as well as the truck infrastructure for gettings things the last mile, to name a few. This would be more useful for medium distance transportation where you're transporting much fewer things than a train to many different locations. As long as you spend enough time on the highway or unloading/loading it to charge the truck, it has much more flexibility than a massive train.", "Because you can't have a train station at every delivery point", "Yea but your only 12.", ">Researchers at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) have developed an electric transport system where the vehicles get their power needs from cables underneath the surface of the road via non-contact magnetic charging. (2009)\n\n[https://newatlas.com/kaist-olev-electric-vehicle/12557/](https://newatlas.com/kaist-olev-electric-vehicle/12557/)\n\n[\"OLEV Bus, wireless charging system electric vehicles/ Gumi, South Korea\" (2013)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z9FW9ijP3Y)", "But you can put one in every city.\n\nall the intercity truck traffic for cargo just racks up road maintenance costs, and pollution.", "When I was a kid, I thought all cars would work this way someday. though with electric tracks on road.\nEdit: come to think of it, I was wrong about so many things back then.... fusion, space travel, cargo dirigibles instead of ships, republicans being the good guys.", "I think you underestimate how much maintenance train tracks require as well as how awkward they are to build.\n\nThis way the same area can still be used by cars and toy only have to maintain one strip of land rather than two.", "this doesn't have a battery though, to eventually discard. you need extra infra for delivery input/output and the logistics will be a nightmare to integrate in existing train stations.. for one you need new trains for this, the trucks already exists and are cheaper. the logistics also already exist and is working, it just needs scaling, trains would be more ideal for the citizen but its a way heavier investment", "Building a rail line between every delivery point and a distribution center is gonna be a real doozy", "Its probably cheaper to do this than to lay new tracks down, not to mention that a truck is way more flexible than a train in terms of uses", "That’s about as bad an idea as the Dutch solar highways", "Those trucks definitely have batteries for when they're operating off the highways with power lines. The advantage is that they don't need to use them as intensely and they can be much smaller/lighter.", "lol this guy still thinks there's \"good guys\" in politics.", "Cool! Ya gonna build more wind mills to power those trucks or are ya gonna rely on unicorn farts?", "I think sticking power lines above highways would be WAY EASIER than building entirely new rail lines that also have power capabilities and link to new hubs...", "Oblig Tom Sc...oh wait", "You do understand that power stations can generate electricity about 10 times more efficiently than an engine in a car. Semi engines are more efficient than car engines but still way less efficient than from a power station. Your saving energy even if these stations are gasoline fueled, which this being Germany they are not.", "It seems like such a common sense way to get electrification going quickly. Stick these along major highways in the US and suddenly phasing out fossil fuels is a reality we can live in.", "Top Gear anyone?", "Actually I'm turning 69 next week. Gonna get a birthday cake that just says NICE", "I still don't get what they're trying to do currently. \n\nWhy create autonomous cars with zero modifications to the roads, paint, signs, lights, etc?\n\nHow are they ever going to work when the roads are covered in ice and snow anyway? \n\nI think solving that unavoidable problem will obviate the work they are doing currently on object and road detection.\n\nIn other words I think we need tracks for all vehicles, but the tracks may be a combination of physical and virtual tracks. \n\nDid you also read Popular Mechanic's in the 80's?", "So they are doing this in Germany where there is 8,000 miles of autobahn... In the US we have 160,000 miles of national highway...\n\nThings that work in small countries do not necessarily work in large countries.", "If we have the resources for 160k miles of highway, we have the resources to electrify it.", "Nice", "Installing and maintaining power lines along hundreds of thousands of miles of highways across 48 states, and ensuring they can reliably power the millions of trucks on our roads, is a lot easier said than done.", "Side note: I admire the dedication to refusing to use proper grammar across the board. choosing use over used in your name, then choosing to use your instead of you're, there is a level of consistency that shows a dedication to your craft.\nI bet you drive ppl crazy with that kind of stuff all the time lol 😆\nI go back through my posts and de-capitalize a couple of letters before I hit post bc it infuriates a very small subset of old people to no end", "You could start with just the main trunk roads that carry a lot of freight then expand it over time.", "What happens in bad road conditions and the truck loses control or crashes?", "> this doesn't have a battery though\n\nThe video clearly states that there are batteries used.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg?t=125", "Sadly the economics of that are really bad. Get proper BEV trucks and none of that is needed.", "It literally says in the video it can make a profit. The economics are good.\n\nEven if you had a BEV truck you could now charge it on the trunk road, and use battery on other roads. With multiple drivers you could run your truck 24/7.", "Please no. We don’t need wires on every highway/secondary road. It’s a huge upfront investment in hardware, ongoing investment in operations and maintenance, has not proven to be safe or weather resistant, and currently the companies that own and operate this infrastructure are the biggest culprits in retarding the transition to low/no-carbon technologies.\n\nI’m putting my chips on energy storage. Not perfect, but far superior to this solution.", "What happens if the lane is blocked? Is there a reserve battery to let it get around a wreck? \n\nIt would be nice to have it where it could be in sections where they can recharge the truck for a few miles, that way it isn't needed the entire stretch.", "Energy storage has a long, long way to go before it is suitable for trucks to use. Current lithium battery tech would need a battery taking up most of the trucks cargo capacity to get decent range.", "Buses in London used to run on a similar concept in the 1930s", "Amazing how people always manage to bring American politics into everything... Can’t the internet just enjoy something interesting without you ruining it?", "What? That's like saying supplying electricity to every household in America wouldn't work, it only works in small countries. You know infrastructure tends to be proportional to the size if the country right?", "That's not correct. Modern coal powered turbine can reach an efficiency of around 45% in optimal circumstances. From this you have to subtract the energy that the powerstation needs for it's own consumption, the loss of energy in at least two power transformers (probably 3). This way you get just below 40% (in optimal conditions).\n\nThere is just no way a normal modern car is 10 times less efficient than a powerplant because that would mean just 4% efficiency.\n\nEven a very modern gas turbine has efficiency of around 60%, which devided by 10 only leaves 6% for cars by your statement.", "Zhe Zhermans did it again!", "Watch the video. The trucks are hybrids.", ">\tThings that work in small countries do not necessarily work in large countries.\n\nLike what exactly? Please explain why a network like that wouldn’t be possible even on a state level in the USA?", "It’s for recharging existing electric or hybrid vehicles so yeah they don’t need to be on it 100% of the time.", "This kind of thinking is a pretty good of example of why the solution will always be in the future. We're relying on rich people to someday give us a solution that will be pretty and comfy and not require any compromise. A pipe dream from people who profit from the looming threat of climate change.\n\nWe have the solutions NOW. This technology has been tried and tested for more than half a century. All we have to deal with is a few more overhead wires. \n\nHuge upfront investment? It's a few wires. Imagine e the upfront investment of converting every truck to electric.\n\nMaintenance? Minimal. Its overhead wires.\n\nNot proven? It's been proven safe and reliable for decades. You know what's not proven to be safe? Lorries with 9 tons of lithium batteries in them. \n\nWe need to stop making excuses for always putting off change until tomorrow.", "Did you not watch the video? The truck doesn’t my have to stay in the one lane. It can move off the grid power and rely on battery or internal combustion to continue.", "Works fine for trains all across Europe...", "I work in the renewable energy and EV industries. Pretty much none of what you said makes sense, and a lot of it is patently untrue. \n\nNot going to explain the rationale line for line, but one thing is that, using power lines like this would require adding new lines to every highway’s grid system. It would also require vehicles to be electric, but to operate plugged in like with the bus in the picture shown. This is different than the current battery electric vehicles that are prevalent today.", "Do you say that with any basis? Pretty sure that simply using the bottom of the truck’s chassis, like they do with other electric vehicles, provides sufficient battery capacity. I think most battery powered trucks are slated for 300-500 miles of range, which seems ample.", "Cost.", "Looks like trains with extra steps", "Modern gas engines are 30-35%. I believe the figure comes from waste in the supply chain for gasoline. It's just an estimate I've heard, I'm sure it's overblown.", "The issue isn’t size, it’s weight, batteries weigh a TON, reducing the amount the truck can haul significantly, which isn’t great for the economics of driving one", "Is this due to weight restrictions on the road system? I always see those weigh stations but don’t know how that impacts drivers.", "Not \"hybrids\", but they can run on battery for a while. They don't need the wires. Those just allow to drive without having to wait for a charge and allow longer distances.", "It comes to cost and time. \n A class 8 semi is rated to a total of 36tons, this includes the truck, trailer, cargo, fuel, driver and their dog.\n\nThe tractor unit weighs in around 7tons, the battery is around 8tons for a 500mile variant of the Tesla truck and that leaves about 21tons for the trailer and cargo so it’s on par with a diesel counterpart.\n\nHowever this is where the rub is. That same diesel can drive 1000 miles before needing to refuel.\nThis brings us to refuel times, 300gal of fuel takes about 15mins to fill and it’s ready to roll the electric version could take as little as 30mins to get to 80%(realistically this is ~350miles on the 500 mile variant) but that needs a 1.5MW charger and that is huge demand especially if you need to charge several trucks at a stop so realistically this will be much slower at present\n\nThe final issue is battery cost, the batteries at present alone cost the same as a new 1000mile range diesel so they cost savings just aren’t there and that’s ultimately what will drive this.\n\n\n\nThe above numbers are sourced here https://www.tanktwo.com/why-tesla-semi-isnt-revolutionizing-the-trucking-industry/\n\n\nhttps://www.tanktwo.com/why-tesla-semi-isnt-revolutionizing-the-trucking-industry/", "Yes, you can step on and off the highway more easily, that's the benefit of it.", "1) Are automonomous semis a realistic possibility? Bc if so, the extra 30 mins of charging seems negligible then. Shipping time is less important when wages are removed from the equation. \n2) Does that cost benefit analysis factor in the comparative fuel costs? Diesel is far more expensive than electricity. And an electric-powered engine has hundreds of fewer moving pieces compared with a gas-powered engine. So, less to maintain. I’m pretty sure companies like Amazon and Walmart - and dozens of municipalities- are investing in electric trucks now because long-term they have significantly fewer O&M costs.", "Ah well sorry for that, I meant that as a joke to actually lighten the mood.", "Busses all over the UK used to run like this. There called trolley busses. There's lots of cities all over the world using them, and a lot of places used to have a system including my home town, but it's long gone.", "Trucks are used to transport from ports and cargo rail stations. You can't eliminate trucks so why not do the best you can to electrify truck traffic.", "Actually I read it longer ago... the car idea though came from a kids toy from the 70's though, it was a track that pushed the cars with very long skinny springs that moved. as for snow and ice, the answer would be roofs and vertically layered highways. At least that's what I thought as a kid :)", "what part of \"as a kid\" did you not get? and what part of \"I was wrong\" did you not get?", "\\#1 The [idea](https://solarroadways.com/) didn't originate in the Netherlands. \n\n\n\\#2 What exactly was \"bad\" about either idea?", "In theory it's a great idea. The problem is the infrastructure and politics required to get it in place. By time the politicians have arrange the funding and the all the legal suits regarding \"how ugly it looks\" and \"harmful magnetic fields\" have settled the BEV-truck and infrastructure will be good enough to make this technology obsolete.", "we had something similar where I lived, they used tracks as well as wires up top, we called them Trolly's I believe they still have them in San Francisco.\nEdit: I lived and live in New England, USA.", "Batteries are the single biggest expense and they don't last. A truck like this could last decades. You could have solar panels and wind turbines along the highways making the transportation energy costs relatively cheap. Sure there are drawbacks and dangers, but its a nice idea.", "or with automation (assuming improvements in same). probably be even safer that way eventually.", "No it’s simply down to the motor and structural rigidity", "ACKSHUALLY [the Swedish Transport Administration ran the numbers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administration_electric_road_program#Cost) and, while trucks are cheaper to run with fast charging stations because truck drivers need to stop along their route anyway, private passenger vehicles are cheaper to run off small batteries and electric rails.", "Overhead wires are outdated. Old problems with electric rails (getting clogged, mainly) were solved in recent decades and [rails are now cheaper and better than overhead wires.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administration_electric_road_program#Cost) While trucks are cheaper to run with fast charging stations because truck drivers need to stop along their route anyway, private passenger vehicles are cheaper to run off small batteries and electric rails. And in the future, when trucks no longer need to stop along the way because they won't have drivers, electric rails in the roads will definitely be the way to go.", "That makes sense. I want about to use audio", "I believe that no one understands the true ramifications of moving whole segments of industry to the electrical power grid. There is no free lunch. The power must come from somewhere. Right now the bulk of the power comes from greenhouse gas generating coal and natural gas. The environmentalists refuse to consider nuclear. It's just too frightening. By the way, I grew up in Dallas TX and when I was a little kid the city busses ran on tram lines.", "I imagine 80%+ of all traffic will travel along a per capita proportional amount of kilometers of road. \n\nWhat a lazy argument to just spit out.", "Electric semis will happen, the holdup is battery capacity at the moment or rather energy storage density.\n\n Autonomous trucks too, although there will need to be some changes to the docking areas for unloading to aid the parking", "Yes but those don’t easily connect and disconnect while moving. I think this is the strength of the system. In public transportation, I can see E-Busses that only need a small infrastructure at some parts of the road (ideally where multiple bus lines are in parallel) as well as just a short stretch at the stops or traffic light where they stop anyways. Just keep the batteries charged and be flexible to reach places without said infrastructure.", "Great point, especially as ppl, lol, and bc is proper grammar...", "He/she is arguing like it's all or nothing, 1s and 0s. But if the truck is not on electricity then it just goes back to running on combustion..... You lose nothing by doing this. Even slowly.", "Exactly. I20, I40, I70, I80, I 90, I 94. Start with those, in whichever order makes the most sense. Maybe the southern routes because of better construction weather and/or access to solar and wind as power sources.\n\nThere are enough container trucks running across those to make the economics worth it. Start off picking two current depot locations, subsidize the tractors that will operate back and forth between those depots to start the cycle and prove it works well.\n\nThere are probably some very good north-south routes as well. I don't know if I95 would work out until very late because it might be VERY expensive to build out given the population density and the resulting complexity of the roads. It might just be better to finish improving the rail in the eastern corridor. But I5 in CA might be a great opportunity as well and last I checked CA likes doing things like this ;-) Maybe I85 as well", "Perhaps you're correct on the exact method of power delivery. But the real key issue is the move to electrify long haul trucking over already existing routes in a way that allows hop-on/hop-off flexibility that's missing from rail.", "Nice", "That's what I'm saying. But why spend time putting in the pylons when battery technology is here. If we increase the amount of cargo depos then develop a hot swappable battery pack that can be charged at depos etween hauling. Trucks keep moving on battery a while battery b is charging at the depo. The south cost of England is 400 miles long. It could be served by 5 train depos and then a each depo has a fleet of electric vans", "Car crashes suddenly got a little more interesting....", "So that's reconfirms my argument then (this is only about trucks). Thanks!", "This model still needs trucks with Batteries. This is only about cutting down charging times. As you said \"nice idea\" but unfortunately that's about it.", "All hard facts on these pilots I have ever seen were economically horrible and bad. I know the companies that got millions of Euros research grants want to say otherwise. But I have never seen published and audited numbers that proof it could turn a profit.", "Can't wait until the trucks are automated in Canada, they are the bane of our highways.", ">has not proven to be safe or weather resistant,\n\nHave you never heard of tram lines or electrified rail?", "Look up energy density of different fuel sources.", "But we already have electric trains...", "Like how you get downvoted for stating facts.", "It's insane how many Americans don't know about electric trains. Countries like China and India have thousands of km of electrified rail lines and Americans here are talking about this stuff as if it's sci-fi.", "Why though??? \n\nHey I got an idea, let's build bullet trains through American cities... oh yah, not obtainable. /s", "Batteries are heavy and big, leaving less and less room for cargo as the capacity increased, and costly to manufacture, especially if you want to compete with trucks that have a range measured in the thousands of kilometres. If you instead electrify highways, you can have trucks with small batteries that are enough to reach the highway (or return to it after delivering freight) and then charge while the truck is travelling on the highway. \n\nThe problem of producing all the electricity needed to charge trucks persists, of course. The greatest advantage of fossil fuels isn't that they are very energy-dense, it's that they already exist. We don't have to produce them first.", "[The rails are hop-on/hop-off.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R5h5QXfGPc) Electric vehicles only need a mechanical conduit installed so they can charge off the rail embedded in the road.", "You still need to install fast charging stations along the route. If you're doing that you can kill two birds with one stone and install an electric road system and save costs in the long run.", "[Electric tracks are indeed the most cost-effective solution for charging electric vehicles.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Transport_Administration_electric_road_program#Cost)", "I vote planes and submarines first", "Republicans (Susan Collins, funded by the National Association of Truck Stop Owners and the National Association of Covenience Stores) [blocked the legal framework for electric roads this year from being included in the Senate infastructure bill.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEdcdsLC88Y&t=1h57s)\n\nEfficient and money-saving public infrastructure? Not if Republicans can help it!", "I'm glad they pointed out that this doesn't scale well in remote portions of countries. For example I drove across Wyoming a few years ago and had a section of 2 lane highway that I didn't pass through a town or city for 6+ hours, just the occasional gas station in the middle of nowhere.", "Oh look, another American that just can’t let people enjoy something cool on the internet without bringing up their shitty countries politics.", "Sorry if my comment wasn't precise. I didn't mean to imply rails couldn't do that or were a bad idea. Only that it's a distinction without a difference in the context of arguing for electrifying long-haul trucking. For the added context of allowing passenger cars to use the system as well, I agree that does make a difference.", "I mean if you want to see this technology adopted you're gonna have to wade into politics eventually. This technology is not happening in the US any time soon due to politics. Sweden is probably gonna be the first country with public electric roads in 2025.", "My point is in pretty much every thread posted on this site someone just has to bring up American politics. All this is video is doing is showing off Germany's electric road infrastructure to help reduce emissions produced by trucks on the autobahns and the comment I initially replied to just had to bring up the whole \"republicans bad amirite\" crap. It's so tiring as someone not from the US.", "you're", "This is a multi-million Euro cost for a few hundred meters that won't help to charge much (you gain some 5 to max. 10 minutes of charge time with these pilots). In contrast a Tesla Super Charger costs some 300.000 Euro only. Again, I would like to be convinced otherwise, but I don't think this is economically viable. Of course the Germans (who are behind on BEVs and who have a lot of companies involved in train technology) would like to have this kind of technology work out but I'm not convinced this is anything but an interesting research project.\n\nPS: I'm also against this technology because these things were installed with months and months of construction which blocked significant parts of the Autobahn, caused traffic congestions etc. I hated that - it caused me a lot of trouble. Thinking this would come everywhere would be a total nightmare. If you offer some public CCS Charger next to me, I'm all fine and happy. This project is a grab for tax money, doesn't scale and is very expensive.\n\nIt is a very charging idea idea, that sounds great however - like hydrogen cars and cheap nuclear power - very enticing and I see why people instinctive downvote my posts. Unfortunately in reality it is way too complex and expensive.", "erm... we have had electric trains for more than a century in the USA, a lot are still in use.", "Electric trucks, even with fatasy futuristic battery tech are just completely unrealistic. You haul more battery than cargo.\n\nElectrified hybrid trucks which with limited electric range for final dropoff in cities do work. That's why this technology is so interesting as it would expand electric oppration to the area where batteries have the biggest disadvantage.\n\nAnd to your point on rail coverage. Rail coverage is already quite good for major trade routes. It breaks down for local point to point. And the investment to expand point to point is huge.", "I know you don't want to hear about it, but its on _our_ minds a lot as we are scared for the future of our country. It just comes up... even if its only as black humor to \"lighten our moods\".", "This isn't even the killer argument. Electic truck battery requirements blow up like the rocket equation. Energy density for batteries just doesn't add up for long haul heavy loads. \n\nSo even if batteries became ridiculously cheap and easy to manufacture, your truck's useful total weight would be comprised mostly of batteries leaving no useful capacity for cargo.", "Maybe it's a pun.... \"Reddit use\", \"to be good\". Or maybe its just a typo. Anyways... if you say his name out loud it sounds the same with or without the \"d\".", "Those are abbreviations, which are quite common in comments on social media. Whether it's proper grammar or not is debatable.", ">I would like to be convinced otherwise\n\nThen read the analysis instead of spitballing figures:\n\n [Regler för statliga elvägar SOU 2021:73](https://web.archive.org/web/20210902072110/https://www.regeringen.se/4a5530/contentassets/37e1f87a819e48ff9c79d615ff8fd8ec/sou-2021_73.pdf) pages 291–297\n* [Power conversion challenges with an all-electric land transport system](https://web.archive.org/web/20191121131437/http://emobilitycentre.se/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Power-Conversion-Challenges-with-an-All-Electric-Land-Transport-System.pdf)\n\nThey have plenty of analysis for the price of a fast charging station network and an electric road network.\n\n>these things were installed with months and months of construction \n\nI'm definitely against the catenary system because it's very bulky and expensive and can only be used with tall vehicles (trucks, busses). I support rail systems, there are currently three available and they're probably going to be standardized soon.\n\n>Germans (who are behind on BEVs and who have a lot of companies involved in train technology) would like to have this kind of technology work out\n\nSiemens is indeed pushing this technology in Germany, Austria, the UK, and the US. I think they're doing a lot of harm by taking away the focus from other solutions.", "How do these power cables last without needing to be constantly replaced? It looks like metal on metal contact at freeway speeds. Wouldn't that cause a great deal of wear?", "The problem of energy density was meant to be implicit in the \"batteries are heavy\"-claim but I see how that's not clear.", "Not a helpful response at all lol. I was asking, what happens when trucks are too heavy. What restrictions are there on truck weights.", "Have you ever heard of the insane wildfires that are rampant throughout California and Australia, started primarily due to high winds meeting transmission lines?", "Not really, the head of the pantograph on the vehicle drawing the power is made of graphite so that's what wears. Bear in mind this system is already in use for high speed trains at well above freeway speeds.", "Awesome, thanks for the information!", "The cost is proportional to the density. We not only have more road but it is also more spread out.\n\nThe cost doesn't increase linearly, rather it increases exponentially as land area increases.", "Almost every major city has an electric subway. Boston has had one for over 100 years. What are you talking about?", "Rails are an order of magnitude more expensive. The thing about rails is it is wonderfully effective and efficient at hauling massive freight often. If you're not using it often or not hauling massive freight it's a net loss to maintain.", "How exactly? The wire is 4m in the air.", "Yeah Arnhem still has the old trolley network, and they are working on making their busses be able to drive on battery, and while on the network recharge. \nhttps://www.smarttrolleygrid.com/en", "the amount of people I see just making shit up and ascribing it to Americans on this website is absolutely hilarious\n\nlike where do you guys get this stuff from?", "They look so ugly overhead.\n\nCould you put a rail recessed into the middle of the road and have the vehicle pickup power from it like a slot car? Something like a train track laid into the ashpalt or concrete. with a pickup wheel that comes down from the vehicle to make contact when it needs charging. \n\nObviously not within cities where people would be walking vehicles could be run on batteries but on highways it could work.", "I've had this discussion many times before.\n\nBasically, trains are fantastic for bulk goods that aren't time sensitive, like minerals being transported from a mine to a port, or non-perishable goods that don't have to be there quickly.\n\nTrucks are for bulk goods or perishables that do have to be somewhere quickly, but it's too expensive to send it by air.\n\nSome might say that high speed trains are faster then trucks, and that's true, however, high speed trains aren't built for carrying cargo, they're built for carrying passengers. There was a TGV mail train in France, but it was only capable of replacing 2 x B-Doubles, which really isn't much. As you scale up the weight, it becomes a lot harder to get it moving, to stop it, and to negotiate the track, so any kind of high speed goods train just isn't feasible. \n\nThe other problem with time is the sheer logistics of trains for general goods. You would have to have a central depot, and have trucks coming from all over the city to unload their cargo, which would then be loaded onto the train. Every single day. This would take many hours, so with a normal business day, the unloading of the trucks wouldn't start until 5pm, and it's likely that the loading of the train wouldn't finish until 9pm. By that time, a truck on the highway is almost half way to the destination.\n\nNow add to all the the sheer number of trucks on the road every single night. Between Brisbane and Sydney in Australia, there's about 1500 B-Doubles travelling every single night. Remember the TGV I mentioned earlier? We'd need 750 of them to replace all the B-Doubles.", "No need to spitball any numbers: 10km of Siemens technology already cost some 25 Million Euro or \\~$29 Million USD in Germany ([https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/e-highway/](https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/e-highway/)) and of course a lot of that is coming straight out of tax payers pockets. So if you multiply that by 3 you get to some $90 Million USD for 3(!) very short pilot pieces.\n\nIn 2017 589(!) Supercharger cost Tesla approximately $40 Million USD ([https://www.fool.de/2017/03/27/die-kosten-fuer-die-ladestationen-sind-fuer-tesla-immer-noch-relativ-gering/](https://www.fool.de/2017/03/27/die-kosten-fuer-die-ladestationen-sind-fuer-tesla-immer-noch-relativ-gering/)) - since then the costs for Supercharger must have come down massively (they are mass-producing them now in their own factory). \n\nI looked at the source you gave. But I think it is not helpful as it does NOT reflect actual costs but merely their theoretical idea of what it might cost plus assumes very high BEV battery costs. In addition the whole electric rail system is only interesting for really heavy use. I drive more than 15.000km a year and only need a Supercharger \\~6x a year - the economies of making electrified roads collapse as soon as you assume more realistic distances (>90% below 50km per day). Lastly, the idea of an electrified highway is null and void if you don't have the whole world electrified (as you can only make an electrified highway remotely work economically if you have really small batteries). In real life I enjoy being able to get off the beaten track and not be \"chained\" to BEV infrastructure. I would never buy a BEV with less than 50kWh Battery capacity - let alone one that has 28kWh.\n\nEither way, no need to argue around this: we agree that the Siemens system really sucks and in times where we even struggle to get CCS in all of Europe the Swedish solution is dead as if requires much more investment and is depending on outrageously expensive batteries to make economic sense.", "Loads of places don't get enough ice or snow that would render autopilot vehicles useless. I imagine there are a lot of areas that could coexist just fine with autopiloted vehicles", "They want to put this all over Germany. It's easy to put wires over an existing road, much harder to clear an extra lane's worth of space (if not more) to build dedicated track.", ">it does NOT reflect actual \n\nIt reflects costs from actual experiments conducted in Sweden. You're literally looking at data compiled by a bunch of doctors and going \"nope, I like this one spitballed figure from one website I found better.\"\n\n>depending on outrageously expensive batteries to make economic sense\n\nThe studies explicitly take into account present and projected battery prices. Obviously if battery prices drop significantly (the breakeven point is specified in the study) then we can reach a point where batteries are cheaper than electric roads (but still worse for the environment).", "Can you point me to an English speaking source? I can't follow all details of the Swedish study. Or alternatively, can you specially point me to the break-even point in the study? \n\nBattery prices have dramatically collapsed over the past decades. \n\nI stand by all my other points of why such a system is not economically viable (i.e. it requires heavy use and long-distances, it does not reflect the most realistic mix of BEV distances (i.e. many trips below 50km), it is not viable unless you cover all of Europe with it etc. etc. etc.)", "[Here's a (summary of a) different study in English](https://research.chalmers.se/publication/522838/file/522838_Fulltext.pdf).\n\n>The analysis suggests that the savings for a km of ERS through reduced battery size range between 0.17-6.5 M€/ERS km\n\nThey used a price of $120/kWh battery, which is [a good estimate for 2021](https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-to-an-average-of-132-kwh-but-rising-commodity-prices-start-to-bite/). The range is so large because it depends on EV adoption and ERS coverage of the road system (50% coverage being the most cost-effective according to the study in Swedish). With 2021 battery prices, ERS is cost effective if it costs 0.17-6.5 M€ per km, depending on future EV adoption, ERS distribution, etc.\n\nLet's say battery prices fall to 33% of today's prices, or $40/kWh. ERS will have to cost less than 33% of 6.5 M€/ERS km for the best-case scenario, or about 2.1M€, which is the cost of the most expensive ERS today. The least expensive rail solution is under 1M€/km and the price is expected to fall significantly in 2022. For the worst case scenario (bad adoption and bad distribution), ERS doesn't break even.\n\nWe know we'll be much closer to the best-case scenario because European countries have committed to 100% electric vehicles by such-and-such year.\n\nBasically the cost of ERS and the cost-saving in required battery size with ERS are in favor of ERS in the best-case scenario even if battery price drops by 66%. We can also expect a significant drop in cost for ERS in 2022. For worst-case scenario, though, ERS is never cost-effective." ]	148	videos	The highway where trucks work like electric trains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af9M8llS9JA	/r/videos/comments/rp92y1/cybermania_94_the_ultimate_gamer_awards_full_show/	[ "NBA Jam was robbed by that unheard of boxing game.", "Was there more of these?", "That was the one and only week that I was a professional TV producer!\n\n(I wasn’t one of the people in charge, I was just a minor contributor as a segment producer. So, I don’t know any stories about how this show became what it was. I merely made some of the filler material… but none of my stuff is in the show, and my name’s misspelled in the end credits.)\n\nAnyway, it’s such a time capsule." ]	3	videos	Cybermania '94: The Ultimate Gamer Awards (Full Show)
https://youtu.be/HBtXsR5BkNM	/r/videos/comments/rp93fd/this_has_to_be_the_most_amazingly_weird/	[ "Not real.", "Still hilarious", "Honestly, not really", "You seem fun" ]	6	videos	This has to be the most amazingly weird commercial I've ever seen...
https://youtu.be/P-ojXu4UnsU	/r/videos/comments/rp9c7a/is_ghostbusters_2016_really_that_bad_part_1/	[ "Loved it!!!", "a 1 hour commentary on a movie that I didn't see and apparently was bad....and this is only 'part 1'\n\nYeah, I'm not watching this.", "TLDW: Yes.", "Seen it: Yes! \nWasshername? Melissa Mccarthy? I won’t watch movies were she is in anymore.\n\nEdit: i almost forgot: \nThat movie was so bad, i don’t need a crappy review. And Part 1?" ]	4	videos	Is Ghostbusters 2016 Really That Bad? (Part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEOgarwWdOk	/r/videos/comments/rp9l8f/jerry_seinfeld_standup_from_1979/	[ "The 17 year old girl he dated in 1993 was 4 years old when this came out.", "Why is he dressed like Han Solo?", "Why is he dressed like Han Solo?", "Kinda funny to think this was just 10 years after the moon landing. Recent history. Puts it into a very slightly different perspective.", "lol", "Dang that NY accent. Same year I was born too. Wow", "Yes", "Yes", "Everyone was in the 70s.", "People probably thought they were seeing Travolta.", "I really like his Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee but man I don't find him funny.", " Jerry Seinfeld or John Travolta?", "I just wanted to ask though, why is he dressed like Han Solo?", "What's the deal with vest?", "Travolta vibes", "Yeah take off the vest Jerry, you look like Aladdin.", "What is the deal with Wookies? Am I right folks?", "Han solo was a product of the late 70's. The late 70's was not a product of Han Solo.", "Hey fellow 42 or so year older! What are we doing on Reddit, AMIRIGHT?", "I got nothing else to do! Lol", "Looks like Vinny Barbarino", "Looking good Mr. Kotter!", "He's painfully boring.", "Always felt he looked kinda goofy on the show but the dude is handsome as hell here.", "his observations are smart, but IDK, his delivery makes it not funny", "It's smart... but at the same time, it's really fucking stupid.\n\nIt's like Cheers... it was smart, but also stupid, and nowdays... the smoke is all gone, and it's mostly stupid.\n\nIt's like a lesser version of a How I met you mother joke that was stolen from a Friends rerun that a writer saw on ALF.\n\nIt just doesn't hold up.\n\nProbably worked back then, horrible now.", "As someone born and raised on Long Island, that's not just any NY accent, that is a Long Island accent.", "I was given his book of his jokes going back to the 70's a few weeks ago to read after surgery and while I was recovering. Anyway I just read this joke a few hours ago.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nNot going to lie, my delivery was better. It's all about the timing.\n\n(Actually I was laughing so hard my stomach started hurting, and that is where the surgery was. Very much worth it.)", "He's smarmy and elitist in his delivery. Very off-putting", "No cotton ball references?", "Funny as hell", "You're a hot dog. But you'd better not try to hurt her...", "Beat me to it. But did not beat me off, which is still an option. Sorry.", "Looks like a character from F is for Family", "Give em' the brush!\n\nPerfect", "His wife was 8 when this came out.", "Most overrated comedian in history.", "His next wife hasn't been born yet.", "Agreed. There's nothing funny about hell.", "wow, his accent lightened as he got older, huh?", "It’s the same distance away as Hurricane Sandy is from today.", "How is he elitist in his delivery? Asking honestly", "He has a condescending tone that sounds like he’s a genius and everyone else going about their lives is an idiot", "I mean I can see it. His whole comedy routine is describing things which are beneath him. Doesn’t bother me though I still find it funny. Although I prefer the sitcom over his standup", ".", "Sometimes i think i'm the only one on the planet who finds his comedy funny. Of course i know that makes no sense.\n\nHe's not really laugh out loud funny. But his comedy usually puts me in a good mood and makes me smile and nod along with his observations. I just think its a very different brand of comedy.", "Why aren't you?", "Disagree, still works.", "Wow, so you mean to tell me Jerry's been painfully unfunny since the 70's? Neat!", "I love comedians in cars getting coffee for the cars and the other comedians but he can be really fucking insufferably smug.", "That's gold, Jerry!", "He's been a comedy vampire his entire career.", "It's also the same distance away as the invasion from the planet glorpnik. But I guess you guys don't know about that yet.", "> i think i'm the only one on the planet who finds his comedy funny.\n\nWell he is one of the most popular comics of all time, so don't worry. It's just that reddit tends to reward criticism over praise, especially for mainstream things.\n\nI think he has a huge ego and takes his actual opinions way too seriously, but I loved his style of comedy. I still enjoy it when he's actually making jokes instead of doing tired social commentary on \"cancel culture.\"", "Oh no….", "What is the deal with toothbrushes?", "Very slightly.", "He has a great stage presence though", "Jerry massaged that accent out like Travolta's masseur.", "His accent was thicker. I didn’t laugh unfortunately.", "Wait wtf?", "Yea you're right, he's been popular. Just on reddit and a lot of online platforms it feels like everyone only criticises. \n\nHe def does have a giant ego.", "Knew something to this effect was gonna be the top comment before I even clicked it. Never change Reddit.", "He promised a low talker that he'd wear it.", "Agree. I love Seinfeld (the show) and watch it over and over regularly but I've never found his stand up funny at all.", "Looks and sounds exactly like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever.", "You know what inhabitants of planet glorpnik are called Morty?\n\nThey're called Gleapers and you know what happened when Gleapers don't Gleap Morty?\n\nThey glorp", "He really looks like John Travolta here. \n\n\nI have to admit that The guy always makes me chuckle with his little observational jokes, somewhat like how Mitch would do it, but with less New York Jew to it. \n\n\nI still laugh at his Thermostat joke. Jewish or not, I feel like every kid can relate to their parents yelling at you about turning up the the heat", "Is he one of the most popular comics of all time, or just popular because he was the star of one of the most popular comedy shows of all time? \nI know he did stand up, but I couldn't name a single one of his bits like with other all time great comics.", "\"it just doesn't hold up.\"\n\nYou think that the joke he told 42 years ago about something that happened ten years prior to the joke being told doesn't hold up today? I'm sorry you feel that way bud", "Reddit hates Jerry", "He was the star of one of the most popular comedy shows of all time *because* he was one of the most popular comics of all time, and his standup is still very popular.", "He's hilarious", "I think he and his comedian guests riff off of each other quite well. I don't detect the same level of insufferable smugness that you appear to.", "I don't find you funny at all", "He's created multiple very original works of comedy (Seinfeld, Bee Movie, Comedians in Cars) on top of his standup. How do you consider him a comedy vampire and not one of the greatest comedy creators of all time?", "His whole comedy routine is exploring the quirkiness of everyday things (observational humor). Not sure why you'd say his comedy is \"describing things which are beneath him.\"", "What about his tone is condescending? It's just observational humor.", "Tough crowd", "Same but the other way around", "Seinfeld is a hack", ">his standup is still very popular. \n \nIs it? \nLike, with greats like Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Robin Williams, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock etc, it's pretty easy to instantly remember some of their bits. \nBut with Seinfield, all I can conjure up is \"What Is the Deal with\"...and that's all I got. Probably finished with some mundane observation.", "Welcome Back, Kotter vibes", "But if he gives them the brush then it is only a one time charitable write off. If the item is on loan then a value of that donation can be written off yearly.", "I don't consider Robin Williams a great standup. Just a rapid-fire impressions. (He is a great actor, though). This just goes to show how much comedic tastes may differ. \n\nJust because you can't think of classic Seinfeld bits doesn't mean there aren't any. Among my family and friends, his bits about horse races and buffets, to name a couple, are frequently quoted classics.", "This guy in the 70s looks like a character from a show set in the 70s.", "He had terrible delivery on that part with Neil Armstrong walking in the museum at night looking for his toothbrush. Good premise, but he just let the punch line hang there lifeless.", "Thought we were going to get a \"What is the deal with astronaut food..\" there for a second.", ">Rich Comedians in Cars Bitching About Their Diamond Shoes Being Too Tight\n\n-Bobcat Goldthwait", "> like how Mitch would do it\n\nMitch had the absurdity turned up a notch. I think it made him funnier that way.", "Kobe raped that girl", "great comedian. kind of a huge fucking asshole.", "Seinfeld incorporated his bits and his act into his show. His show was incredibly influential and frankly groundbreaking. At this point his style of comedy has become the basis for so much modern comedy that when you hear his act now it seems derivative. This is what happens when you are as successful as he is.", "Only went into the comments to find this comment so I could upvote.", "I always skip his standup during rewatches, I wish I could get a trimmed version that omits it all, luckily his standup comes up less and less as the seasons go on.", "It’s almost as if he was just starting out.", "Listen to him on the smartless podcast.", "I do", "It's because you like Larry David, not Seinfeld.", "He’s from Massapequa. So is Alec Baldwin.", "Awful take. Hating on ‘Cheers’ is just plain stupid as well and shows you know little about any of this. The writing in ‘Cheers’ was sharp but the characters were what brought the show to life. It also spawned one of the most successful spin off’s in TV history in ‘Frasier’. Due again to how great the characters were and the actors that portrayed them.", "He's openly smart and that's threatening to a lot of people.", "It's a good bit. Can hear the Long Island accent like 9% more.", "Disagree. What's not funny about hell? With the devil, and those caves, and the– the ragged clothing!", "Very wholesome humor", "If Jerry Seinfeld was starting out today he wouldn't even be able to get past 1000 subs on YouTube. \n\nIt's so boring and slow and it seems like a parody of itself. Like if someone was joking about shitty 80s comedians doing observational comedy, they'd inadvertently start coming up with Seinfeld jokes. I know he was joking about himself on SNL when \"What's the deal with airline food?\" became a comedy meme, but didn't he actually have tons of air travel jokes? He is that parody of himself.", "I mean yeah, statutory rape should be exposed.", "Seinfeld was good because of Larry David, Bee Movie is a meme, not actually good, comedians in cars is good if the guest is interesting.", "No doubt an unpopular opinion but I never found this guy funny. Each to their own.", "[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp8tCqwushM&t=1s&ab\\_channel=JeremyKaplowitz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp8tCqwushM&t=1s&ab_channel=JeremyKaplowitz)", "His outfit is inspired by Han Solo?", "Never knew that, and it's really weird reading that. Seinfeld's stand up is great. It worries me who Reddit prefers... someone like Dane Cook or Carlos Mencia?", "Belasco died in 2012 due to an acute respiratory infection. In 2004, he bid $16,000 on a toothbrush that flew to the moon, which drew media attention — not only because of the price he paid, but because he was a vice president at Colgate-Palmolive, a company known for its oral hygiene products,\n\nhttps://www.space.com/20479-neil-armstrong-toy-plane-auction.html", "If you're actually asking, yeah. He sold out an 18,000 seat arena in my city many years after his show. He basically stopped doing anything with COVID, but he still can easily sell out 7,500- 20,000 seat venues. I went to see him in a stadium. I'll be honest, I was super disappointed about how much old material he did and how impersonal the stadium was. But the man sat down and talked with Obama while he was president as part of a silly coffee interview show. \n\nIt's completely fine if you don't find him funny, but a lot of people do.", "With a soupçon of Han Solo!", "Can somebody tell me if we hate Jerry Seinfeld or love him? I don't want to be wrong.", "Seinfeld had a lot to do with the show being successful as well. The last 2 seasons were run by Jerry without Larry and it still went out at number 1.", "From the white fro to the cloths to his jive accent.. this is a 70’s-80’s wigger. \n\nWait, are we allowed to say that word anymore? To me growing up it just meant a white kid who acted like he was a gangster from the hood. But just putting a W in front of the n-word doesn’t sound cool. 🤷‍♂️ ah well, I’ll leave it up to you guys to either downvote me to hell or not.", "That is John Travolta Mate", "Imagine the shit he's seen with other rich people do that he looks the other way on because he does it too.", "Most people think that actually", "He was not one of the most popular comics of all time when Seinfeld came out - not even close.", "Statutory rape between consenting adults as defined by the State in which he lived?", "I would say that he toned down the accent for network TV, but today he's rich enough that he doesn't have to give a fuck about anything, and he doesn't sound like this on TV today either.", "I feel like that's the pirate shirt once the story gets exaggerated in the retelling.", "2 years after", "I still chuckle to myself whenever I’m at the airport and think of his line about how the closest thing to royalty we have in America are the people that get to ride in those carts through the terminal.", "At minimum it’s okay to make fun of a 40yo dating a 17yo and call him creepy.", "Interesting to see that he was just as unfunny even back then.", "I don't hate him. I just don't find his stand up funny.", "Reddit doesn’t like anybody’s stand up just George Carlin", "I appreciate your passion to defend Jerry on this thread and you have done it tastefully. I agree with all of your replies. But Bee Movie?? Come on…", "It's just that all of his silly questions have obvious answers. Like this one, obviously this toothbrush is worth a shit ton of money. Or the bit he does about laundry detergent commercials always showing how they get bloodstains out. Any woman knows why. \n\nDon't get me wrong, I love the sitcom and understand how revolutionary it was. I just don't really enjoy his stand-up.", "But I don't wanna be a space pirate!", "I love all of his shit", "Yup. He can write a good joke but his delivery and stage presence is horrid.", "Permabump to remind the world that he went out with a 17 year old when he was 38.", "I think we all know what’s needs to be done", "Oh shoot. Really?", "They’ve been married for 22 years and she was in her late 20s when they got married.", "Fart", "Your mom is too.", "I can only see John Travolta.", "You started out so okay and then just really ran it off the rails didn't you.", "Phrasing.", "How could he have looked in the mirror and not seen Han Solo ? Star Wars was popular back then", "My buddy, Bob Sacamanto, sells vests like that.", "Jerry Travolta", "For context, can you give us a stand up you enjoy?", "I was talking more about the animation style of the show, but I hope your reply made you feel better.", "Sounds like him too. Undahneeth da tootbrush", "It's somewhat disorienting seeing how good the actors were around him in Seinfeld, while he'd be clearly a level below all of them.", "Kathy Griffin really hates him.", "Mitch used to be my favorite comedian. He still is but he used to be too", "Long guy land", "But she was 8 when this came out.", "Or it's because this content is forty years old and doesn't hold up as well anymore. Comedy is usually pretty topical and referential, and the style evolves over time. Good comedy today will probably be seen as shitty 2060.", "He has a bit about Halloween masks and food going off that I always remember. That’s just off the top of my head, I’m sure I could remember more if I tried. I think his observations are far from mundane and instead point out the absurdities of everyday life.\n\nBut of course if don’t find it funny you’re probably unlikely to remember it just like I can’t remember Pryor's or Murphy’s routines because they never did it for me.", "I mean you could probably say the same about most comedy or at least a good chunk of it. If you begin to take the premise too seriously it breaks the integrity of the joke.", "And I don’t. I think it’s really weird how he seems to split people this way. Like, I get it a bit, but I think he takes himself less seriously than the people detecting that smugness and he doesn’t really go around thinking he’s better than everyone else or whatever.", "Not to take too much away from Jerry, but Larry David was a massive part of why Seinfeld was so successful.", "Yes", "like he got the Friday Evening Sniffles", "Because the Wookie suit was unavailable.", "That’s a pirate shirt if I’ve ever seen one!", "Imagine defending this shit.", "Damn so he hasn’t been funny at all for over 42 years huh?", "Also 10 years before Seinfeld the show would start.", "\"Maaaassapequa, sounds like a magical place.\"\n\n- Alec Baldwin, that one Friends episode he was in", ">Reddit doesn’t like anybody’s stand up just George Carlin", "Bill Burr, Billy Connolly, Peter Kay, Dave Chappelle, Bill Hicks, Frankie Boyle, Dara Ó Briain.", "I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that he was making over a million a year from Corporate type gigs prior to the show and essentially took a pay cut so he could make Seinfeld. Then the show blew up and he became a true household name. He was successful before but the show put him over the top.", "just dont take any advice from him", "He should have gone with princess Leia", "Doubt it", "His accent is so thick here it’s hilarious.", "I think the most overrated comedian... I just don't get him.", "He had the exact same physique, hair style, and dress sense as John Travolta from Saturday Night Fever.", "prepare", "not a funny guy ...sorry", "> Like, with greats like Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Robin Williams, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock etc, it's pretty easy to instantly remember some of their bits\n\nHonestly I think that might be what made Seinfield great was that his style of comedy was so...relaxingly small? It always felt more like a casual conversation between him and the audience. Where as the famous comedians we remember had these huge shows with huge bombastic performances, Jerry was doing bits like the parakeet flying into the mirror, or the extra button that comes with a suit. I think it's a totally different style of humour and doesn't really make much sense to compare it to people like Robin Williams or Chris Rock. I think his comedy is great - it (kind of ironically I suppose) always felt like a friend telling jokes over coffee to another friend.", "r/barbarawalters4scale", "And closer to WW2 than today", "During that time Seinfeld’s material was some of the best stuff going . It always stood out from the crowd back then I remember.", "Check the HBO debut from 81. Completely gone in 2 years.", "and ~~Louis C.K.~~", "He often talks about how he doesn't understand comics who come up with a new act every time they tour...somehow not realizing that people will have the same reaction as you. His justification being that he doesn't want to disappoint audiences by using new, untested, material that may not land. \n\nHe talked about this on \"Talking Funny\" with Louis CK, Chris Rock, and Ricky Gervais...all of whom toss out their last act after it airs as a special. CK especially is known as the master of making a brand new hour every year. It was fun to see that argument, and how Jerry acts like everyone else is crazy", "That's because the only funny thing about Seinfield was Larry David and the actors surrounding him.... Basically everyone but him makes the show great", "Speaking of things I can’t stand… \n\nI love all three comedians on that podcast separately, but they podcast itself is soooo bad. They just interrupt each other fawning over how amazing whatever guest they have that week is (and interrupt the guests all the time to do the same thing!) instead of having actual legitimate conversations. That coupled with the fact that about half the podcast is ad spots and I can’t even listen to it.", "It's because the legacy of Seinfield is kind of tarnished because of Kramer's little racist outburst. Without Seinfield, Jerry doesn't really have anything of value to give to the comedy world except for airplane food jokes", "It's all Larry David.", "their episode of comedians in cars getting coffee is pretty good, they go hit up some of their old hunting grounds.", "He's not. He's dressed like Shrek", "Gold!", "Up until now I thought everyone loved him. I definitely do not.", "Only 7 years after the Apollo 17 landing.", "Puffy shirt!", "What part of glorpnik did you not understand?", "That just sounds like some hating.\n\nMaybe the show was a little tarnished but in the big picture seinfeld's legacy is still very strong. It's almost universally considered the greatest sitcom of all time.\n\nSo I really don't see how we go from that to taking the entire show out of Jerry's resume. It's his greatest accomplishment. But he's also got his stand up, and now comedians in cars getting coffee is a pretty huge success online.\n\nAnd his standup, yea it seems to be uncool or dated in a lot of people's opinions. But when you listen to the best comedians out there, they hold him in very high regard.", "Reddit showing zero understanding of taxes yet again", "One thing I love about that podcast is the subtle digs they get in on each other. Really shows how long they've been friends.", "He isn’t white my dude", "By that point the show had all of the momentum it needed to be popular through the end of the series.", "Sorry American isn't my native language", "Always reminds me of this\n\nhttps://www.theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998/amp", "This isn’t a jive accent at all. This is a NY accent.", "Reddit as a whole definitely loves Seinfeld. Look at the \"overrated\" ask reddit posts and sort by controversial. Sure, you'll see a bunch of \"Seinfeld\", but they'll all be downvoted into Oblivion. Or the \"What can you watch at any time, any day, any mood\", ask reddit posts. Seinfeld is at the top. I think a lot of fans just get upset because a lot of people also don't like it too, which happens with anything popular.", "A Han Solo vest and Mike Ditka hair helmet.", "Don’t get eaten by a Bronteroc.", "And accent", "You talking about my life or comment? Doesn't matter really both are correct.", "It's just a NY accent.", "Jerry Seinfeld is one of those mega famous and successful comedians that I don’t think I’ve ever laughed watching. I need to watch more of him I guess", "Yes, this joke from 1979 was clearly stolen from both Friends and HIMYM.", "He's a spy! Get him boys!", "And Joey Buttafuco", "Yes, you are so original for making this joke and pointing it out. Bravo…", "I never made a joke", "Trick question! You're wrong regardless.", "thanks for agreeing with me", "CHEESE IT!", "He’s worth like $800M", "Once a pedo always a pedo.", "Well, he was banging a 17 year old girl when he was 38, so he's definitely a pedo.", "Looks more like Greedo to me.", "What do you expect? Marxists and economics go together like Marxists and jobs.", "Could he not have waited a couple of months till she was 18?", "And the first episode of ‘That 70s Show’ was closer to 1979 than it is to today", "It's like roaches. If you see one, there's definitely more out of sight.", "What is the name of this accent?", "New York - Long Island, specifically", "John Travolta?", "he definitely could've pulled off the hair", "there's a lot of memorable episodes from the post-david time, but the show was noticeably different. the episodes weren't as tight and there was definitely some flanderization happening. i don't think it would've lasted another year on top without larry, and i'm pretty sure that's why jerry decided to end it there instead of rounding out the full decade.", "his joke was about going to a museum -- can you believe his nerve??", "John Lennon slapped his first wife a couple of times, made a mewling song about how bad he felt for doing it, now nerds on the internet cream themselves pretending he was Ike Turner", "It's pretty telling of who was the real genius behind Seinfeld that Larry David has done 11 seasons of Curb and Jerry has only done his coffee show and Bee Movie", "I can remember tons of his bits, but I am a fan of his comedy. Saw him live in NYC, maybe 5 years ago, and show was sold out fwiw.", "I actually agree about Robin Williams. He had a super fast mind that could spit out stuff like a machine gun, but I never thought what he said was especially funny. He had insane talent of course, but I enjoy Seinfeld's bits more.", "Yeah, that's true although I never thought of it. You could replace him with any competent actor & the show would be just as good", "Exactly. But replace anyone else and the show crumbles. Everything is based off Larry David's life experiences", "I saw him live three weeks before he was introduced on Johnny Carson show and he was hilarious. A small club with probably 100 people.", "he said he only changes 10% of his act from year to year. meaning to see a completely \"new\" show you'd have to wait a decade between performances. I don't get it but that is what he does and he could still sell out regardless so more power to him.", "this thread is peak reddit.", "I like how he is dressed like Han Solo", "Old Dave is funny, new Dave is absolute horse shit", "I love Larry David. A bit late to the Curb Your Enthusiasm but it's hilarious.", "I didn't really notice a difference, but I'm form Long Island", "Vinnie Barbarino", "Maybe. Just a bit thicker and harder on the long O sound. Like the Li accent... Coooooffee. Not a ton. But I think moving to LA later in life softened that a bit.", "Don’t cut yourself on that edge bro", "I think Alec steals the show that episode. He’s funnier than Jerry.", "> Wait, are we allowed to say that word anymore?\n\nYou're free to say it. People are also free to assume if you're the type to call a NY accent a \"jive accent\" and use the word \"wigger\", chance are you're just a racist POS. \n\nBut tell us more about how you think Jerry Seinfeld sounds like a \"gangster from the hood\". You sound like some sheltered white guy whose heartbeat speeds up when you see a black person.", "He was 24 at that time.", "Hit the nail right on the thumb 👍", "This is your response? Weak, but I can't say I expected anything more from someone like you.\n\nKeep crying about how you're \"not allowed\" to be racist. You're allowed to, and people are allowed to perceive you as the dumbass that you are. Typical response of the sheltered racist white man.", "Sorry. I wasn't trying to be a dick about it.\n\nJust a silly joke.", "😂 man someone’s had a rough Christmas. Hope things get better.", "I really like the show Seinfeld, but I very rarely find his stand up to be funny", "Yeah it's a show i want to get into because the cast are great comic actors. I just get put off by the stand up bits.", "[Hey, I wanna know!](https://youtu.be/90-jXbyv7ok)" ]	262	videos	Jerry Seinfeld standup from 1979
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7bXnbeUtg	/r/videos/comments/rp9tba/how_to_open_hard_pistachios/	[ "The only problem is, they are very expensive", "Especially since it's completely impossible to eat half a packet of pistachio.", "The closed ones never have any salt in them and aren't dried enough so they taste shitty though, so it's not really worth the effort of getting them open.", "I prefer to just swear.", "They're not worth the effort until they're the only ones left.", "Somebody decided to film and edit a three-minute video for something that can be explained in half a dozen words.\n\nUse the shell from another pistachio.", "I wish I could give this anti-gold. I was waiting for a pistachio that was totally closed to see if the technique differs from my own, but NOT A SINGLE ONE was ever featured. Hell, we KNOW how to use a lever, even if it is our own fingernail.\n\n(My method for totally closed ones: hold a couple/few pistachios in your hand around the unopened one, and squeeze like hell. That oftentimes opens up a crack.)", "So glad I read your comment first", "Use a blunt knife. Stick the blade in the slot and twist while holding the nut steady. It's easier on the fingers.\n\nIf it's entirely closed, then you have to smash them open, then use the knife again. It's easier to put them all aside till last so you don't have to swap tools as much.", "Thats sounds better than my method, which is to just put the fully closed pistachio between my molars and crack it as lightly as possible, then spit out the shell fragments.", "TL;DW: use a pistachio shell by jamming it into the small opening and twisting it slightly.", "The ones that aren't open usually aren't worth opening anyways.", "I just use my teeth.", "That's why you bite them open instead. I put the whole thing in my mouth and crack it with my molars, the salt from the shell acts as seasoning for the pistachio.", "Please no one do this unless you want broken teeth.", "I call bullshit, they are incredibly hard and you would have chipped your molars by now.", "Yeah I don't think he's ever eaten a pistachio lol. Probably talking about a softer shell nut.", "I'm 100% talking about pistachios. I eat an ungodly amount of them. If you bite down along the seam it just pops open.", "Why on earth would anyone lie about this.", "[Pistachio shells are only a 3.5 on the hardness scale.](https://www.humban.com/pistachio-shell/) \n\n[At ~5 on the same scale](https://www.westernpaoms.com/hard-human-teeth/) your teeth are a good deal harder than a pistachio shell.", "[Pistachio shells are only a 3.5 on the hardness scale.](https://www.humban.com/pistachio-shell/) \n\n[At ~5 on the same scale](https://www.westernpaoms.com/hard-human-teeth/) your teeth are a good deal harder than a pistachio shell.", "Hammer on concrete or just throw away", "re 2.: if it's dead, it's morally and ethically O. K.", "poison pistachios dont open when roasted so just dont eat the unopened ones", "Yes defective nuts are unlucky and I don't want their subpar nutrition diluting my pure pistachio protein. \n\nThe worm thing applies to a lot of root nuts, reggae peanuts or balled.", "Are you sure you aren't thinking of steamed clams?\n\nI've never heard of poison pistachios.", "There seem to be dangerous pistachios, a quick search online returns: \"Harvested Poorly, Pistachios Can Be Deadly.\nAflatoxin, a chemical which can cause cancerous mold, has been found in some mistreated pistachios and has led to breakouts of disease in some parts of the world. Sometimes, if not caught soon enough, these pistachios can be fatal.\" Not sure if only the closed ones are impacted here. Heard about the still-closed-after-cooking [bivalves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivalvia) part too though.", "I always just use my fingers or fingernails, never had an issue unless they were 100% sealed and for those I save two and mash them together until one gives", "Bit aggressive but ok dude", "That's so funny. I've bitten down hard on pistachios all my life (my second most favourite nut/seed). No issues.", "If the pistachios doesn’t open easily then don’t eat it.", "As if you have to bite a diamond to chip a tooth. Come on people. Take off your unintentionally ironic smartie captain literal pants and actually think.\n\nI'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying it shouldn't be done. Good lord.", "lol yup, just having some fun based on the similar fact about mussels. I figure telling people to not eat 1/100 pistachios would be some good harmless fun." ]	33	videos	How to open hard pistachios
https://youtu.be/wYhOhJm7Njg	/r/videos/comments/rp9zej/oi_oi_oi/	[ "That guy started with a great impression of the cook from The Muppets.", "It's oj oj oj.", "Cutest Uthden Troll I've ever seen.", "Thank you!" ]	4	videos	Oi Oi Oi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lzf8kfHY6A	/r/videos/comments/rpap5i/roomies/	[ "well, that won't last another hour. but yeah, digs were ill.", "Beeeeeer", "That seemed like it was way longer than 3 minutes.", "I love Kyles YouTube videos! I really wish he made more original content, his comedic talent is wasted in SNL. It makes me so sad how such a funny person is on one of the least funny shows.", "Check his show SMASH on Netflix! It’s pure Kyle", "I had no idea this existed, thanks!", "never saw this guy's videos before but for some reason this really reminded me of we need girlfriends", "Spread the word to all the other Moon heads (just made that up)", "Nice try, Kyle.", "I hear you but SNL has come a long way in recent years and has been putting out consistently good content recently.", "I always enjoyed his appearance on parks and rec", "Living together is gonna be tight!\n\nThis is a kyle Mooney classic", "Check out Brigsby Bear if you haven't yet, it's great.", "Every word that comes out of his mouth gives me anxiety", "All SNL skits run about 5x longer than they should. Ok,we get it he's annoying. Stop stretching out the same joke already.", "I know him from SNL, he has a very unique style", "not an SNL skit", "Zuzzy zazz", "Brownies!", "fun fact: the camera guy is emma stone's husband", "Bulk buys!", "Man good neighbor stuff was the best", "SNL doesn't utilize him on stage as the kind of actor he is. Perhaps he's more involved in writing sketches.", "It has to be pure Kyle, he's half the cast", "Can someone explain? I don’t think I understand this video at all.", "Is that you Lorne? In all seriousness, it’s just quirky+awkward humor that Kyle has perfected over the years. His mind is also seemingly permanently influenced by 90s sitcoms and probably has the most “cut for time” videos on SNLs YouTube page from the last ten years. I am a big fan of his but I can see how the average person may not connect well or understand the awkward (and often 90s) humor he’s going for.", "Them living together was going to be ill because the place had so much party potential, but then the prospective roommate started what may have been a fight so that was not chill because of the aforementioned party potential of the place, added onto by the implication that they may not be boys anymore. But in the end, they stay roomies, which is hella tight.", "You're fresh out of college, and have to find a place and can only afford to get a place with a room mate to split the costs. You scour your friend list and reach out to everyone to find someone good, but none of them are in need of a place, and the friends you made in school either moved in with their parents again, or went out of state. But than you get a notification. It's Kyle; you haven't seen him since high school. He saw you graduated, and saw your post looking for a room mate. His parents have kicked him out for the fourth time and he needs to get his own place, and wants to room with you! You weren't exactly super close, more of a friend of a friend really, but you're desperate so you decide, \"How bad can it be\"? As you see him unloading his collection of empty alcohol bottles and the stripper pole hanging out the window of his 97' Ford Taurus you begin to question the choice you have made. \"Its gonna be so lit living together\" says Kyle as he goes up the stairs...", "Kyle Mooney must have pictures of Lorne with Jeffrey Epstein.", "Dont forget, you dont need DXM to fly.", "OP is obviously 12.", "Im a kid of 80’s. I didn’t really get some of the 90’s stuff. Guess that explains it.", "This guy is not funny. Ever.", "He also wrote and starred in a movie named Brigsby Bear. It was strange but definitely above par.", "He was so much better before SNL, that show squeezes everyone into one shape.", "Kyle is the reason I got into [sports](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdwchohlMjI)", "This is giving me PTSD flashbacks", "I'm not exactly sure why there's so much hate on SNL on Reddit. I've watched every episode for like 10 years and don't understand why everyone thinks it isn't funny?", "Hi Kyle 👋", "You only understand '80s humor and nothing else? Only thing that makes you laugh is someone getting slimed?", "Didn’t find slapstick/pranks that funny either tbh. I more enjoyed Monty Python/Black Adder kind of humor", "They always have put out consistently good content...just not enough of it to fill up 90 minutes each week.", "Hard disagree. SNL is funny right now but Kyle is the jell-o salad at the buffet table.", "I’ve wanted this jacket since about 2012", "Brigsby is the bees knees, surprisingly sincere and uplifting.", "I would but I’m too busy eating this sub!", "Uhh, subs?", "Imho, it's like baseball. If you know baseball then .280 average sounds good. If you don't though then hearing that a professional athletes can only do what they meant to do less than 1/3 of the time then it seems like they suck. \n\nWith the nature of SNL, having 1~3 sketch a night actually be funny is a pretty good night. People probably expect everything to be funny though.", "This post gave me anxiety.", "going shopping at chronnerbrothers.com", "No Good Neighbor = No Kyle and Beck on SNL", "You should watch his new netflix show 'saturday morning all star hits', it's good if you like his humour!", "Kyle's sports youtube series is the best thing I've ever seen", "Red flags. Red flags everywhere.", "Understandable mistake. He is/was a writer for SNL", "What appearance?", "He interviewed to be Ron Swanson assistant... I think it was the episode Jean Ralphio was introduced", "This is the first video of theirs that I remember https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6oPWh_gJoc", "...without ever helping you carry anything, which will foreshadow never helping with the rent, food, or bar tabs.\n\nI think anyone over 25 knows one.", "Yes. Who’s your favorite cast? Go back and watch an entire episode, literally any one whole episode, and you realize how rosy colored your glasses are", "Especially with a younger crowd that doesn’t watch TV and is just familiar with their best skits. You’re gonna be disappointed if you go to your first baseball game after watching a montage of home runs and insane catches.", "The one critique I have about the evolution of SNL in the last ten years is the shift of focus onto digital shorts. They’re funny but they’re so obviously a cash grab, and when you spend an entire week mostly under the gun to create something viral for clicks, the rest of the episode suffers in quality I think. The only truly viral live sketch I can even recall in recent years was David S. Pumpkins, all the rest are digital shorts. That might be why so many people think the show “sucks” now when really it has the same peaks and valleys every other era has.", "I thought it sounded like Jason Siegel so I checked the comments.", "It's almost like this guy writes skits for snl. But yeah it's fucking weird that they mentioned snl at all.", "https://youtu.be/XzrmBKeVNU4", "This is how we trip\n\nhttps://youtu.be/JKqV_ybCS-I\n\nAll time favorite lol", "Kyle is the reason I got into [drugs](https://youtu.be/JKqV_ybCS-I)", "I will always upvote kyle", "BENJELS!", "He kinda feels like a Skyrim npc", "Starts at 2:02 https://youtu.be/WT8BiKFhVcA", "That was so annoying", "True? But they're way better than SNL.", "A single skit by Kyle's YouTube channel is better than his entire SNL career combined.\n\nAlso I never noticed this but the fact that the cameraman is mad at Kyle for not moving boxes but is only fucking around with his camera is pretty genius since this is making fun of insecure guys who try too hard to have friends", "That’s what I’m saying, Good Neighbor was so damn good, and most people don’t know Beck and Kyle came from doing those funny skits.", "How do you not understand simple character acting then?", "My friendly attitude is like this guy lol.", "SNL stifled them.", "Well yeah SNL you have to sift out the dozens of ideas and skits they have, but it’s hilarious when they both are in a skit or even each of them alone and they just make me crack up.", "Yeah there are a few I like with them in it. But they need to be in more.", "Good example of [uptalk](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28708526/)", "Wish they still made videos, GoodNeighborStuff was such a good youtube channel. Kyles interviews (especially baseball) are hilarious.", "For real, people who say TikTok is cringe haven't seen kyle's interviews", "TBH TikTok'ers dont know theyre being cringe, theyre just naturally stupid. Kyle knows exactly what hes doing.", "Why not...?", "The friend aborting mid move was a dick.", ">Kyle Mooney\n\nI did not know that was a famous person before right now. The only thing I knew him from was that legendary DXM video.", "But it helps.", "That doesn't sound like Jason Siegel at all to me. I even closed my eyes so as not to be biased.", "I was so excited to see the Good Neighbor trio on SNL. but holy shit, either their sketch comedy just doesn't translate on national television, or they have to heavily edit it because its just so bad. They did their 'SoCal weather' and other stuff and just did not go well.", "Such a gem of a video. Watched it recently, and forgot it was a 12 year old video 😂" ]	94	videos	roomies
https://youtu.be/2jrvWUNHSPQ?t=1	/r/videos/comments/rpb12l/pick_a_side_youtube/	[ "Lol, 29 minute long.. no thank you", "Watch the beginning and the ending if its too long for you, the video contains very valid criticism and if you enjoy youtube i think you should watch it", "this is a repost", "Nah", "Reddit keeps downvoting this and everyone who stands go for the video. \n\nFuck you Reddit.", "Pathetic", "Pathetic", "Sorry I've got better things to do than listen to a whiny rant.", "It isn't a whiny rant.", "Really? Let's just take a look at a random portion of the video, shall we?\n\n\"Susan Wojcicki, stop FUCKING LYING TO US every time you have to give a statement in response to videos like mine!\" says a faux-gravelly school shooter voice. \n\nSure, not at all a whiny rant.", "Ah yes, it's bad to go on a \"whiny rant\" about... Checks notes YouTube actively removing content that uncovers pedophiles on the site while allowing said pedophiles to continue their activities? Is that what you're saying?", "Oh, we're gonna try and put words in each other's mouths, are we? Great, let me try: \n\nIt's bad to spend half an hour bitching and moaning in a bad Batman impression, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. \n\nIf you want people to pay attention to you, present your argument like an adult, not like someone who's about to shoot up a kindergarten because girls won't talk to you.", "The edgy bit constitutes maybe 10 minutes of the entire video, with the rest being testimonials from other YouTubers who have been unfairly targeted by the company and airing their problems with the site. You'd know that if you, ya'know, watched the video.", "I already told you I don't have time for whiny bitching. \n\nOn that note, feel free to continue your whiny bitching, all on your lonesome:", "So you don't care that YouTube is suppressing legitimate creators and allowing pedophiles and abusers to freely operate on the site, then?", "And the post was banned from the r/youtube because it does not benefit that company.", "Why are people all mad in the comments that they can’t get their message out? That’s not on your audience. Yeah it got downvoted. Half an hour long and some crying dude in the thumbnail. Sorry you think people need to wake up, maybe don’t put them to sleep trying.", "More like Pathenic" ]	20	videos	Pick a side YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNL2CxVKBjk	/r/videos/comments/rpbwsf/when_monster_fight_with_tiger/	[ "Mine allll Mine! ya wussy mammals.", "Lion. Tigers have stripes 🐅.\n\nEdit Thumbnail was a lion but it is a tiger in vid my apologies.", "Who just copies a title that sounds that stupid?" ]	3	videos	When Monster Fight with Tiger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGgnza9hLMM	/r/videos/comments/rpbyd5/the_very_real_boss/	[ "dumb", "Your mom is dumb.", "The creepiness of K&P sketches is what made me so interested in Peele’s directoral stuff right away. I think the sketches are at their best when they get a little unhinged.", "Are the pushing out new stuff? I never remember seeing this sketch.", "No, someone just asked for favorite KP sketches in another sub and it reminded me of this oldie.", "[MIRROR](https://streamable.com/6ytphu)", "It always bugged me that Mahina turned out to be “real”. I get that it’s K&P’s style is to have the double twist at the end. But by the end of that sketch I’m really itching for retribution on the asshole manager, not vindication.", "It's a triple switcheroo!!!", "Yeah, you're right. I have the same issue with it. I get that the \"oh damn, it was true all along!\" thing has some value, but that's not what I was hoping for...", "I agree. This sketch is terrible..\n\nWhat happened to the good K&P stuff??? Their jokes have turned shit", "It's not just that Mr Mahina is real it's that this fact surprises both Jake AND Kenny. Kennys facial expressions indicate that he /had/ been lying about there being a boss so the fact that the mop in a suit starts talking and running at them horrifies them both.", "Seems like when you get enough of a following you can afford to let things slip." ]	12	videos	The very real boss
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rpe3d8/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rpe3d8/deleted_by_user/	[ "Ends to early", "Alcohol is the best part about christmas", "Why cut away the reveal when he sees he made no money?\n\nAnyway. Please hold the phone in landscape mode if you're gonna post it on youtube. Also, please no text on the video. That \"When your cousin needed cash so badly\" just doesn't add anything of value, if anything it makes it less funny, sorry." ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U	/r/videos/comments/rpemld/theres_no_google_earth_in_iran_so_this_guys/	[ "It's a major city. It has people, roads, cars and buildings. You were expecting sand dunes, tents and camels?", "It looks exactly what I thought it'd look like, but then again I'm not an American so I have some idea of what the rest of the world looks like.", "Man... they look like they get healthcare.\n\n\\Sobs in american\\", "What do you think I would imagine Iran to look like?", "Nothing to do with Google earth. These viodes of people waking in cities is all over YouTube.", "Khomeini has been dead for decades.", "Buildings and roads?!? What else do your eagle eyes see? Because by your description, every city on the planet is identical.\n\nThere’s actually a lot of unique features in this video that y’all could see if you took your heads out of your asses long enough to notice things beyond “cars”…. But sure, Tehran is a major city with people, roads, cars, and buildings. And you knew that beforehand, so obviously this video holds no value for you.", "Sponsored content, of a state sponsored account trying to glorify Iran. So really, who you about to invade?", "People are probably expecting the types of pictures they see of Baghdad or mid-war Syria.", "I wouldnt mind checking out a few of those pizza places.\n\nCan we get some peaceful coexistance on earth please?", ">Buildings and roads?!? What else do your eagle eyes see? Because by your description, every city on the planet is identical.\n\nRelax, he was just calling out the ignorant folk who was expecting a Prince of Persia sandy background type picture, and just wanted to make the point that most major cities in nearly all countries share a lot in common in their general city aesthetic.\n\nWhich isn't unreasonable to do, you'd be surprised for instance when you ask people what Johannesburg looks like, when you remind them that that city is located in South Africa. \n\nWhy are you unnecessarily going on the offensive, did your really not see the point he was trying to make, or you just wanted to be combative for no reason.", "At 16:25 he’s walking across a bridge and there are steel rails / pipes along the side. On top of them, every 20 feet or so, there is what looks like a muffler sticking up out of them. Anyone know what those are?", "You're welcome for the nuclear sub fleet, we'll continue to absorb these cheap shots as long as needed to keep shit together", "Yeah our foreign policy has done such a great job at collectively keeping shit together /s", "[ Jump to 16:25 @ TEHRAN 2021 - Evening Walk in Saádat Abad Neighborhood / تهران](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h16m25s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Bahador Hadizadeh, Video Length: [26:23])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@16:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h16m20s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Actually, it has. What are you’re issues with it?", "comment history shows he's an aussie", ">I see the down votes, truth hurts huh?\n\ni downvoted you for being the 4th or 5th person in this tiny thread to bring up america for no reason on a post about iran", "So many places in the world i will never get to see.", "> Relax, he was just calling out the ignorant folk who was expecting a Prince of Persia sandy background type picture\n\nHe was being a smug prick. There were no ignorant folks around, so he invented them, so he could be superior to them.\n\n>Why are you unnecessarily going on the offensive, did your really not see the point he was trying to make, or you just wanted to be combative for no reason.\n\nDid he really think OP was being racist? Or did he just want to be combative for no reason? Don't pretend like this whole \"Ugh, it's like you've never even traveled before, bro\" shit isn't combative. This whole comment section is just people pretending like they're all globetrotting world citizens, but they're typical redditors, so they are just trying to act like they know things about other places, when I know for a fact that 90% of this website couldn't tell you 5 things about Iran without a google search.\n\nSelf-righteous morons...", "Are you talking about [these](https://upload.i.ng/file/expropriationcameoscontracting/image.png)? If so, they look like lights. They probably light up in the evening to illuminate the ads on the signboard.", ">There were no ignorant folks around, so he invented them, so he could be superior to them.\n\nDude I've met these people in real life all the time. He was just anticipating them and made the comment before hand, but trust they do exist. \n\n>Did he really think OP was being racist? Or did he just want to be combative for no reason?\n\nI think he thought that OP was ignorant, and wanted to point that out. And again yes people who have weird outdated stereotypical perceptions of places that they are not from exist, strange that you've never met them", "Anthony Bourdain do an episode of Parts Unknown in Iran. I liked it a lot!", ">Dude I've met these people in real life all the time. He was just anticipating them and made the comment before hand, but trust they do exist.\n\n\"Guys, dumb people exist, so I'm totally justified in \"anticipating\" that everyone I meet is dumb.\" Like all things in life, why don't you take a moment to figure out the situation before judging...\n\n>I think he thought that OP was ignorant, and wanted to point that out.\n\nSo, he is ignorant of OP, but choosing to point out how \"ignorant\" OP is based off pretty much nothing. Remind me to thank him for his service.\n\n>And again yes people who have weird outdated stereotypical perceptions of places that they are not from exist, strange that you've never met them\n\nI would consider a person with an outdated idea of urbanization in a random country they don't live in to be infinitely more informed than people who are just assuming shit about people they never met, so that they can scold them on the internet to make themselves feel better.", "money", "So my wife is from Iran and we were just driving on the I-90 through chicago and she had never seen it before. Said it reminded her of Tehran. I never thought about what Tehran might look like but I can see from the video it has a similar vibe to any western big city out there, except a lot cleaner looking.", "When you grow up and move past Reddit as your sole source of info and stop puking up cliche viewpoints, you’ll realize that, without America, most of Eastern European would be Russian and a lot of east Asia would be Chinese. So, yeah.", ">\"Guys, dumb people exist, so I'm totally justified in \"anticipating\" that everyone I meet is dumb.\" \n\nNo, he didn't say everyone is dumb. He put a comment that only applies to the people who actually assumed the things he mentioned in this comment. Did you not read what he said? \n\n>So, he is ignorant of OP, but choosing to point out how \"ignorant\" OP is based off pretty much nothing.\n\nHow is based off pretty much nothing? \n\nDid you not read when OP said \n\n\"different streets of Tehran which is completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like\"\n\nthat begs the question what he imagines Iran would look like. Again most people who have no filter who are exposed to Western TV and movies would assume exactly what he said i.e. \"sand dunes\". This isn't that hard to piece together. \n\n>just assuming shit about people they never met, so that they can scold them on the internet to make themselves feel better.\n\nIt's not a baseless assumption. \n\nWhen someone says again something like \n\n\"different streets of Tehran which is completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like\"\n\nthat begs the question, what DO they imagine Iran would look like? \n\nBased on Western media's obsession with the sandy parts of Iran/Persia, he made an educated guess. And you're complaining of people being self-righteous, while you complain while people make very reasonable educated inferences. Yeesh", "You saying people around the world have buildings and shit too? Crazy.", "As an American this is exactly what I expected it to look like", "Most are white cars with an occasional black or light silver. No one seems to observe traffic laws or right of way be it cars or pedestrians. Women are all covered head to toe, with their top garmet flowing past their hips. Open gutters on the side of the road without caution signs or tapes. Very few billboards pr advertisements for a major city. Interesting!", "Toronto is this clean! At least it was when I lived there years ago. I don't know what it is like now.", ">No, he didn't say everyone is dumb. He put a comment that only applies to the people who actually assumed the things he mentioned in this comment. Did you not read what he said?\n\nOh, I read what he said. He created a strawman and then assumed it was stupid, and you're doing it too. You're creating assumptions based off of your own biases, and somehow that makes the OTHER person stupid.\n\n> that begs the question what he imagines Iran would look like. Again most people who have no filter who are exposed to Western TV and movies would assume exactly what he said i.e. \"sand dunes\". This isn't that hard to piece together.\n\nLol, that's YOUR assumption. A lot of people would assume a more restrictive city based off the government being a repressive theocracy. But sure, you assume backwater \"sand dunes\", so that's what everyone else must be assuming, which makes THEM racist.\n\n\n>Based on Western media's obsession with the sandy parts of Iran/Persia, he made an educated guess. And you're complaining of people being self-righteous, while you complain while people make very reasonable educated inferences. Yeesh\n\nLol, if you think projecting your own biases onto a random stranger is an \"educated\" guess. It's so sad that your egos won't even let you even entertain the possibility that other people don't think the same stupid shit you do. You genuinely don't know enough information about Iran to form an opinion outside of what you've seen on Tatooine, so other people having opinions based off recent history or geopolitics is some foreign concept to you. It's pretty funny to be honest. Maybe they'll get to the Iranian Revolution in 7th grade.", "A lot of angry people in this thread for some reason. Yeah, the world doesn’t look fantastically different like it does in the movies, but if you don’t have the luxury to travel much it’s ok not to know that.", "Dude, read the title of this post again. \n\n“streets of Tehran which is completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like”\n\nOP seems innocent but ignorant And this person was highlighting that.", "I'd have figured more of an abundance of much older architecture. In most cities, the age range of the buildings you'd see typically span the range that the city has existed.\n\nIn Los Angeles, there are 400 year old cathedrals and missions. In New York, there are still 100 year old brownstones. In San Francisco, there are 100 year old row houses. In London, there are 1000 year old buildings which date back to Roman times.\n\nWikipedia says that there are archeological remains in Tehran which suggest settlement in the area over 8000 years ago.\n\nThe other thing which surprised me is how much English there is on everything, even official infrastructure signs (the blue road signs, for example).\n\nOverall, this really, really looks like Los Angeles and some parts of the San Fernando Valley (specifically Van Nuys).", "I can read, thanks. The whole conversation is about how people are making assumptions of how \"ignorant\" OP is based off said title. Thanks for your input, though. Your suggestion to read the title has help me greatly.", "Chicago is very clean coincidentally.", "What a modern capital of a country looks modern? Even NK looks normal - even if its faked there.", "GutModel is the stereotypical redditor who states assumptions as facts before doing even a basic check.", "Well, one day, when you realize that classic asshatery includes assuming that the only explanation for disagreement is that the other person is \"ignorant\", maybe you'll figure it out.\n\n\"Oh, I don't agree with this guy. He must not have read the title. \n Yep, that's the only thing that makes sense to me...\"", "Let's take a moment and remember that Iran was a highly educated democracy prior to 1953 when the United States sent in an agent by the name of Kermit Roosevelt, grandson and nephew to two presidents, who threw a coup and handed the country to a dictatorship, all on behalf of British Petroleum. \n\nThe western imperialism on display created a common enemy for the people, who rallied around a charismatic religious leader, the Ayatollah Khomeini. The religious awakening in the region began with the Shi'a and quickly spread to the Sunni, including the young scion of an Saudi construction company, Osama Bin Laden. This young man would grow up to mastermind the 9/11 attacks.\n\nSo, you want to know why we were attacked on 9/11? It wasn't because \"They hate our freedoms.\" \n\nWe've been lied to about the middle east for decades, that's why the views here are so surprising to so many people. Iran is a nice country full of lovely people. The leadership sucks, of course, but that seems to be endemic around the world and we're no stranger to it in the US.", "That's not a point to be missed. It's him directly talking to a stereotype of people that may or may not exist, despite him having no way real way of determining if OP is among them. That's a strawman. Deal with it.\n\nThe assumption I have made is that if this is the only interpretation of Iran that he can come up with, it's the one he holds, even if he doesn't want to admit it. What do you think he thought Tehran looked like? Desert Chicago? Because I promise you, he didn't. He didn't know what it looked like, but he knew he wasn't supposed to think of it as sand-duney, so when OP posted that title, he projected that opinion onto him. \n\nAgain, Iran is country with a lot of dimensions to it, and if the only one y'all can imagine the \"ignorant\" masses holding is \"sand dunes\", that's because YOU can't imagine another one, because there's a ton of preconceptions about Iran out there that people hold. You can find all sorts of them in the wild. You ALL choosing desert backwater unprompted says nothing about OP and everything about you.", "You're pathetic. Imagine choosing to be this angry for no reason.", "This post is a goldmine for r/ShitAmericansSay", "In 2002, my first car was a grey Peugeot 206. I never knew what happened to it when i sold it. Now I know. It is living its best life in Tehran.", "Is this \"downtown\" though or a nice section of it? Frankly, it looked about what I'd imagine. I'd be curious to see 3-4 miles in any direction though as well - see what their suburban sprawl looks like", "Sharia can also be beautiful!", "Everyone here is bringing up these preconceptions unprompted based off a nonexistent set of people of who go around talking about how undeveloped Iran is.\n\nLet's just say it's hard to buy that everyone here is talking to this group, while also not being a member of this group. If y'all are the only ones here, who are you talking to? Unless it's yourselves :)\n\n>To assume that I have these preconceptions is Undeniably false\n\nConsidering there is no evidence to the contrary, I wouldn't call it UNDENIABLY anything. Prove to me that you had a more \"enlightened\" view of Tehran than OP before this conversation started, and I'll admit I was wrong, and take my punishment.\n\nIn case it wasn't obvious, that would mean a comment from you and OP describing Tehran from at least a few hours ago. An objective one too. Not a \"it's different from what you would imagine\", because that could mean anything, obviously.", "> to point out how fucking ridiculous it is to assume what someone thinks based on so little.\n\nAnd yet it's still more to go on than the title of this post... Also, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to people who think that, because you know they exist, which may or may not include you. \n\n>\"to the people that think X, That is not true.\"\n\nOP didn't say that. You know how I know? Because you can't tell me what \"X\" is.", "It'll look different after we bomb it...", "Iran has not demonstrated any desire to be expansionist. That's not their thing. The regime wants Iran to be a regional power.", "Make some tea", ">It is obvious his You was ambiguous\n\nIf it was so ambiguous, why did he feel the need to assume that? Also, I've made this point like 50 times, you're not getting it, and you seem like you're losing the ability to English, so I'm just gonna give up now.\n\nAlso, he was implying he was racist, because it's reddit, and that's what people do here when they are trying to sound smarter than they are.", "Tea is icky.", "The exact reason I don't visit cities when I travel. Too much globalization.", "Are you ok? Get off the internet and go outside and look at some trees.", "I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't actually care about my well-being, but that's fine. Since y'all are digging into deep comment trees to look for drama, I do worry about your mental states, though. Maybe I can help you. Are you ok?", "This is the north of Tehran at the foot of the mountains. It's very nice and clean like this. There's parks and tree lined streets up that way. As you go south, more towards the middle there are much busier and messier places but it's still all fairly nice. Lots of apartment towers and individual blocks of of 2-4 storey buildings on a large sized lot often with one family per level. Massive freeways criss-crossing everywhere.\n\nAlso numerous poor suburbs which are made of somewhat rundown mud coloured bricks, quiet drab and contrasting with all the shiny glass and stone finishes you will see in Tehran and other cities.\n\nAs you go to the south, there are more farm type houses with these old mud fences/walls and it looks more like your stereotypical dusty thing you're talking about like you might see in a war movie.", ">I didn't know calling out one of the most common preconceptions about a location and cultural development is somehow a race thing now\n\nIt's only common among certain people. Maybe you need to widen your social circle. Also, still not getting the argument, somehow...\n\n>Thank you for enlightening me on the fact that ethnicity and race are the same thing.\n\nSpeaking of fun segways... wut?", "Toronto is a dump. Be glad you got away. It's just a real-estate money-laundering machine now.", "It looks almost exactly like what I expected it to look... Just like most other major cities.", "Hollywood shapes a lot of opinions and views unfortunately.", "looks more modern than Iraq", "yes. Yes I was and now I am disappointed. What happened to that guy named Lawrence? Is he still around?", "Alleys FTW", ">it looks more like your stereotypical dusty thing you're talking about like you might see in a war movie.\n\nthis is where a lot of people get their impressions of foreign lands", "I would say that the preponderance of English was surprising to me as well, especially for a country that has become so isolated (economically) from the rest of the world. \n\n\nAlso, I was surprised at how clean it was. I've been to Jordan and Egypt and both were far more littered than this. Though I will give credit to Egypt, Cairo was incredibly clean for the size and density of the city.", "As an Iranian-American I can assure you pizza in Iran Is wack. It's made with ketchup instead of marinara. And since pork isn't allowed they use some strange beef toppings. \n\nIt's good in It's own way but in no way should it be labeled as \"pizza.\"", "[ Jump to 05:20 @ TEHRAN 2021 - Evening Walk in Saádat Abad Neighborhood / تهران](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h5m20s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Bahador Hadizadeh, Video Length: [26:23])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@05:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h5m15s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Born and raised in LA. There’s nothing here built by humans from the 1600’s. The oldest building in all of California is the mission at San Juan Capistrano and it was built in 1782. The buildings around Olvera St are around 200 years old. \n \nI think what’s throwing you off is the idea that a city grows when it starts, and never changes once the buildings go up. Like a tree. Central areas should have older buildings because that’s where the city started. And a city like Tehran should have way more older buildings compared to how old it is.\n \nBut LA is a perfect example of how that line of thinking doesn’t work. LA started out waaay smaller, then stayed small for almost 100 years before booms in the early 1900’s, 1920’s, and 1950’s. That’s why most of the old buildings here are from those eras, and why the city is designed for cars.\n \nI’m not too educated on the history of Tehran, but I’m sure it had more of an amorphous expansion like LA. Some areas expanded at different times in the past, and maybe some of it got bombed out. Tokyo was a massive city with old wood buildings that the US literally burned to the ground. If you look at most of the streets of Tokyo you couldn’t tell it was a super old city.", ">completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like\n\nNice try Iranian propaganda, show me the women in \"risque\" clothing and I'll believe you :\\^)", "I live in a country that borders Iran. People toss garbage outside the window constantly. They do it because they know the street cleaners that walk around all day will pick it up. I guarantee it's the same situation in Iran.", "Your definition of pizza seems too narrow. I know pork and marinara are common, but it's obviously not required.\n\n(Maybe Iranian pizza is still wack, but lack of pork definitely doesn't automatically mean it's not proper pizza).", "One thing I've learned from various Henry Rollins shows is that people are much the same everywhere in the world, just trying to get by day to day with somewhere to live, food on the table, and a modicum of contentment. It's generally the powerful that are the shitcunts.", "That's a lot of Peugeots", "Thinks that stick out:\n\n-No stoplights at major intersections\n\n-Pedestrians must say their prayers before crossing, because God willing nobody else cares for their safety\n\n-lots of generally European cars, dating from new to 20+ years old.", "looks like a better boston.", "I was not expecting street signs with the same shade of blue.", "Strangely soothing. The streets are cleaner than my hometown of Seattle, and the people better dressed.", "did they just copy paste american car dependence or what. Those poor streets", "What is Reddit’s obsession with Iran? I see more posts about Iran than any other country other than USA of course.", "So many Peugeots!", "Serbia uses ketchup with their pizzas as I recall. Also have ketchup bottles to just squeeze out more if there isn't enough on it already, lol.", "Can you elaborate on this?", "How is a guy walking around a city with zero commentary trying to \"glorify\" Iran? I can assure you this random Youtuber is not the entire government you think you're speaking to right now.", "Wh-\n\nThat guy died over 30 years ago.", "The other guy got the wrong items but I do think they're decorative lighting. If you look at around 15:55 you can see them on the railing across the street and some are missing, showing that they're bolted on top of the rails, not integral to the structure.", "No, he meant [those](https://i.imgur.com/LYAQUSP.png).", "That's one of Tehran's wealthiest neighbourhoods and is pretty much as I imagined it would be, massive Istanbul vibes.\n\nNo offence to Americans but they don't travel much, just about nowhere in the world is how they imagine it to be, especially London and Paris.", "London's cleaner than that.\n\nNot all western cities are like NYC, Paris and Rome.", "Ah, fair. From his description I didn't understand what he meant. Totally no idea unfortunately.", "And you're saying you don't like cliche viewpoints, huh.", "Living its best life with so many French cars around it.", "They are very different, and in many ways you could prefer one over the other. So how did you get to this conclusion?", "You're going off the deep end here, buddy.", "Its no different to what I would imagine OP. Because I don’t live under a rock. Unlike all the middle eastern people in your imagination.", "The fact we've been lied to and no one minds is what gets me. I don't trust our governments or our news media one bit.", "Ketchup? 🤮🤮🤮🤮", "What? You think Iran looked like the bombed out dirt huts and deserts like in the American propaganda movies? As opposed to just a normal country?", "Yes but you're talking about a different kind of dump, the streets are still the cleanest I've seen compared to Montreal and other big cities in the northeastern US.", "Disappointed by the lack of curly slippers.", "Good luck finding your 4-door white Peugeot 206 in a parking lot.", "Then americans are gonna start seething", "So like any big city???", "I'd be surprised if it really was ketchup and not tomato puree.", "TIL, Iran, pretty nice", "Jesus, no London is not cleaner than that.\n\nLast time I went it was a consistent expanse of rubbish, spit and vomit.\n\nEven Trafalgar Square, where you'd expect a better state considering it's the dead center, was a dumpster. \n\nIt didn't use to be like that, but going back after a couple of years I couldn't help noticing a massive difference.", "It looks like any country with a big city in the region.", "When the punishment for littering in the capitol is death to your whole family it tends to stay clean. Center Pyongyang is the same way.\n\nI'm not saying the rest of Iran is also not clean, but authoritarian regimes usually have their halo trophy city or district where the wealthy and connected live and the poors, of they are even allowed, would lick up a drop of ice cream off the sidewalk.", "No, stop. Don’t give the Americans any ideas.", "Strange because I work in tourism in London and travel a lot and people including Americans are always commenting on how clean London is. And it's certainly cleaner than Paris or NYC,\n\nAnd where would the \"spit\" come from, NOBODY spits in London?\n\nI watched quite a lot of the above video and yes, London where I am now sat is certainly cleaner than that.", "They have also drivers too!", "I deliberately never said that nobody gets drunk or vomits as you well know.\n\nUnlike in other cities, that sort of mess gets cleaned up quickly and efficiently.\n\nYou expect to travel to a sanitised Mary Poppins version of London?", "There's a car called Peugeot Pars. Basically they bought the license for Peugeot 406 and modernise it a bit.", "This is a major problem for Americans, they don't travel much and Hollywood leaves them with absurd notions of the rest of the world.", "No American in their right mind would ever replace marinara with ketchup on pizza. You seem to forget that pizza as most of the world knows it now was popularized in New York by Italian immigrants, to the chagrin of those still living in Italy, I'm sure. We already bastardized (perfected) pizza once, why would we change it to be worse?", "and the rest of the world has absurd notions about the United States. I live in Appalachia and even here just traveling 1 hour in any direction the culture can start to change pretty quickly. The US is pretty large so even going to a different state could be similar to how your average European may travel.", "What do people expect it to look like then?", "The lack of honking was the most surprising to me.", "I love how Iranians make pizzas. Also has nice people", "Haha, I’m actually from Iran and whenever I tell people I’m from Iran, what you exactly described, is what they expect my home to look like. I just wanted more people to see that’s not the case.", "Depends on where in London you're talking about but generally it's clean enough. London is a huge tourist destination.\n\nObviously you might notice some differences if you go out at midnight on a Saturday night compared to noon on a weekday.\n\nI live just outside greater London in Hertfordshire and overall we're much better than we used to be for littering. I think that applies generally throughout the country. I remember when I was young and seeing road-sides with crisp packets and bottles and junk. Obviously you'll never eliminate litter but things tend to be a lot better, people have better attitudes in general to that sort of thing.\n\nFly-tipping on the other hand still seems to be a big problem. So many time I'll be driving down a nice lane or a somewhat secluded area and I'll see a heap of settee's and old TVs. I guess people see that some things have been dumped there so they feel less guilty adding to the pile?", "People expect what they see in the movies: yellow filter, dust, poor angry people dressed in rags, ambient Middle Eastern sounding flute music in the background.", "I guess it's always going to be an interesting country for an American audience, because Iran, along with China, Russia, Mexico, Cuba, and a few other places, are presented in the US media with this weird Hollywoodesque picture of remoteness and dangerousness that is so far off the reality.\n\nThese are all modern countries (and touristic destinations) with direct and normal relationships with Europe, Canada and really the whole world except the US where they are the \"Others\".", "An eyes opening indeed.", "I mean, if you look at say Homeland or any production that tries to be truthful it’s a completely different story.", "I think he meant that the center of most modern large cities look alike, which is a fair point. There is overall not much difference between Los Angeles, Prague, Tehran, Sydney or Stockholm.\n\nIMO you have to travel to Asia to see something a bit different.", "The only movie I've seen that takes place in Iran was Argo, and it seems to be a pretty accurate portrayal of the city.\n\nThe issue is probably more lack of cultural and geographical knowledge, leading people to assume Iran is some Arab desert country.", "I'm going to bet you live in the USA or Europe. Because if you lived in Africa or the Middle East you would be very well acquainted with the very many people who assume we all live in a mud hut with lions roaming outside. God alone knows how many ancestors I had to pray to to get these magic words to appear on the internet. \n\nIf you ever visit an African / Middle Eastern country then joking about how people see the place compared to the reality is a good way to form local connections.", "I know I'm guilty of lumping all Middle Eastern countries into 1 stereotype and that's the desert. Obviously now I know better but that's just how I grew up understanding it since it isn't really taught here in the States.", "I lived in Toronto for 20 years, and moved to Vancouver last year.\n\nI can confirm, visiting family in Toronto right now, it's significantly cleaner than Vancouver right now lol", "You mean Street View, the photos taken by cameras usually on cars.\n\nGoogle Earth is the 3D model of the globe, a very different thing.", "I think if you are an American you get presented a picture of Iran as a country of religious fundamentalist zealots and terrorists. One where American sanctions have successfully crippled the economy and punish the Iranian citizens every day in cruel ways.\n\nSo your imagination of Iran would be that of a dirty, unkempt, violent, savage place where people are desperate and destitute and are struggling to get through the day.\n\nOne where \"death to America\" and \"destroy Israel\" are graffitied on every other wall and where people get publicly flogged for being a jew.\n\n\nI can't think of any other country or people that have been demonized more than Iranians in the western press.", "I have gone down a rabbit hole of geoguessr videos on youtube. One thing I learned is that google maps is not in every country. The other thing I learned is that you can use Yandex and Baidu to get street views or details you can't get on google. \n\nI also learned the yandex image search has a really nice UI.", "Err it exactly looks like a run of the mill modern day big city with buildings, roads, cars and shops. How did you imagine it would be like?", "I imagined a city with some kind of Middle-Eastern look. That's what it looks like.\n\nWas I supposed to imagine a desert village or a bombed out wasteland?", "Exactly. I've met people abroad who assumed that because I was from Texas I was some sort of cowboy who owned a big ranch. No, I grew up in a sizable city and rode a skateboard around, not a horse.", "Perhaps actually watch that was posted. You’ll immediately notice the lack of women walking around and those that are, covered head to foot. What were you saying about religious zealots?\n\nDon’t contribute to the problem by playing down the issue.", "Well. I'm old enough to remember Iran from before the revolution when it was a major Westernized nation and the billions of dollars in American military aid given to the Shah. Hell, when I was a kid they were still calling it Persia. Iran was a US client state for 50 years. Why wouldn't one expect the capital to look like any other major world metropolis?\n\nThat's a rhetorical question by the way which I know the answer to; but it does pain me the vast numbers of folks who want to weigh in on political policy in the region with an utter lack of any real grasp of even the most recent history.", "And Japan puts mayo and mustard instead of marinara. At least pineapple kind of works (fight me)", "Even if the video showed an old Medina I would still assume districts like the one in the video exist.", "And people like my dad truly believe “the shah was great for Iran”.", "It actually looks exactly like I imagine", "the rest of the world thinks about America like America thinks about Texas lol", "A good rule of thumb is to not project your own racist assumptions onto your fellow redditors.", ">When the punishment for littering in the capitol is death to your whole family\n\nSource?", "What are you talking about?\n\nAmerica has however many languages there are in the world and since we have no nationalized language any and all are welcome. We just prominently speak English but wouldn't you know, they speak English in Belgium too.\n\nWe have English architecture, Spanish architecture, French, German, Italian architecture. We are a country that was literally built by immigrants.\n\nYou do not understand the cultural complexity and diversity of the United States. have you ever even been here?", "What a weird, hyper-active imagination you must have. The punishment for littering in Iran is a fine.", "Italians in Italy came to be Italians in the US. Do you think we grow Italian people on trees?", "Although Iran has capital punishment, littering is not one of the crimes ([Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Iran)):\n\n> Crimes punishable by death include murder; rape; child molestation; homosexuality; pedophilia; drug trafficking; armed robbery; kidnapping; terrorism; burglary; incestuous relationships; fornication; prohibited sexual relations; sodomy; sexual misconduct; prostitution;[3][4] plotting to overthrow the Islamic regime; political dissidence; sabotage; arson; rebellion; apostasy; adultery; blasphemy; extortion; counterfeiting; smuggling; speculating; disrupting production; recidivist consumption of alcohol; producing or preparing food, drink, cosmetics, or sanitary items that lead to death when consumed or used; producing and publishing pornography; using pornographic materials to solicit sex; recidivist false accusation of capital sexual offenses causing execution of an innocent person; recidivist theft; certain military offenses (e. g., cowardice, assisting the enemy); \"waging war against God\"; \"spreading corruption on Earth\"; espionage; and treason.[5][6]", "[Capital punishment in Iran](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Iran) \n \n >Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Iran.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "How is this different from how I was supposed to imagine Iran? It seems about right.", "You can just travel there if you'd like to?", "Are you sure you didn't accidentally go to London, Ohio?", "Iranian Ministry of Information has been hard at work on reddit. Guy posting all the ladies and now a guy showing you how normal a city looks.", "Are you fucking shitting me? Lmfao. You can smoke weed in Tehran and nothing will happen", "Look at the people who actually get executed in Iran. It’s murderers, armed robbers, pedos and traitors. Like a normal country.", "Not a high bar", "Lol you’re drawing a direct line between the Islamic Revolution and Osama bin Laden? You’re an idiot. Maybe a well-meaning idiot but still.\n\n“Hurr durr everything was fine before Mosadeq got overthrown and (something something) and then the mean religious people showed up” is barely above the standard American state view of Iran in terms of ignorance.", "In an alternate universe Russians and Chinese are telling Europeans they’d have to speak English with each other if not for them", "Iran doesn’t have a good relationship with Canada.", "Yandex UI is great for everything. Once you use Yandex Taxi you’ll start complaining about Uber every time you have to open that shitty app.", "You are comically out of touch.", "It's a bit of an issue because some councils will charge huge amounts to pick up large items like TVs so people just dump them out anonymously to avoid the charge, which works for them but because the council doesn't know about it they can stick around for days. Unfortunately not all councils have a high enough budget to clear these larger items out on a daily basis.", "This has a Middle Eastern look. Just not an American war movie look.", "Boro digeh", "People are downvoting this out of reflex (by likening it to stupid comments being made in this thread) but it is absolutely true. Tehran driving is on another level.", "Many big middle eastern cities look like this too.", "I never lumped italian americans into a single group though? Only mentioned Italians moved here. you're trying to prove your own narrative here", "Ah, the good times when Britain and the US overthrew the government so they could keep taking 85% of their oil revenue.", "I didn't think that was abad neighborhood at all", "I noticed that some women did not have head coverings and some did. Is it required in the city or personal preference? Also noticed much fewer women walking around in general.", "I have never seen so many Peugots in my life.", "No", "Yep.", "Unless weed is legal, I feel like really depends on who catches you. Just like in the US, if a power hungry dickhead cop catches you smoking a joint you get to take a ride.", "Do you mean that children don't ride their horses to go to school?", "This is the problem with Dermutt100, they don't travel much and Reddit leaves them with absurd notions of the US.", "Sounds like Romania", "And homosexuals too!", "Before Covid one in twelve international travellers were British. an astonishing figure when you consider that Britain only has a population one fifth that of the USA. 39 percent of Britons have been to the USA, I've been twice.", "3? The US is 50 small countries. Texas has a referendum every few years on whether they wanna secede. \n\nNo offense, but you are seriously undereducated on the cultural differences found in the US.", "Baghdad didn't look like that before it got bombed either.", "That place is a sausage fest. The guy to girl ratio is way off.", "Looks like every other Middle Eastern major city. Nothing surprising in this video.", "Hey, but at least they got \"westernized\" and \"modernized\" through being an American client state. The countries that didn't actually have sand dunes, camels and people in rags in their capitals.", "Just don’t do it in the street and you’re gucci", "Baghdad was always pretty shitty. It is starting to look more modern now, but yeah before the Gulf War it was pretty shitty and it didn't get any better until now.", "Every country has plenty of cultural influences. That's not particualr to the US. And I'm not going to get into the rest of that argument.\n\nBut the idea that the rest of the world is as ignorant about the US as the US is about the rest of the world is very very wrong. We all read your media, or get stories from your media reported in our media. We know much much more about you than you know about us.", "What Hollywood film takes place in Tehran?", "I mean, that's true that Americans don't travel much outside of the USA, but generally speaking, your average Americans aren't allowed to travel to Iran. I've lived overseas and been to a lot of places besides, but travel to Iran was simply not a feasible (nor recommended) option for my family. It was difficult enough visiting Saudi Arabia for ~3 days pre-9/11.", "It wasn't bombed out and there weren't barriers and check points everywhere.", "if you get what you know from our media then you know less than you think lol.", "Argo", "Which is still much much more than you know about the rest of the world, because you cannot read the media from the rest of the world at all, and neither can your journalists.\n\nYes, we are all partially sighted, but that doesn't mean that blind people see as well as the rest of us.", "enjoy categorizing 330 million people into 1 group. We understand our journalists are bad but you just assume the entire populace is ignorant as you are being right now.", "Tehran in 1979 and it looked like Tehran in 1979.", ">The US is pretty large so even going to a different state could be similar to how your average European may travel.\n\nIt's really not comparable. You're still within one nation, with one dominant language, and the same old stores, tv-channels, cultural references, politics, foods, holidays, currency, under the same flag. \n\nYou think travelling within the US is like travelling between countries because you have variations to the above. But you forget that all countries have local variations. The US is homogenous on an international scale.", "I see you conveniently forgot Dominoes strange nose dive around 2005 or 06. Ordered a hamburger pizza from them, thinking it would just be hamburger on top.\n\nNo, this shit had lettuce and the sauce was literally ketchup and fucking mustard. Threw that shit away.\n\nEdit - they called this monstrosity the Cheeseburger pizza.", "I was told it was pretty accurate to the time", "The Iraq and Iran war fucked up Baghdad and that conflict ended in 1988 a year and a half before the Gulf War ramped up. You would have to go back to 1951 to see a non-bombed out Baghdad.", "If you think that the average American knows no less about Iran, Slovenia, or Cameroon as the average Iranian, Slovenian, or Cameroonian knows about the US, you are deluded.\n\nI can name 20 American states and 20 American cities without even needing to jog my memory. I know about New England, the Deep South, the American civil war, Wyat Earp, BLM, Woodstock, alcohol prohibition, White House, congress, Supreme Court, and countless other things about the US. And so does everybody in the world, from movies, TV and news.\n\nI doubt that there's a single country in the world that you personally know as much about as the average human knows about the US. And certainly the average American doesn't.", "Even Studio Laika from Oregon is treated like a foreign power by Hollywood.", "I'm proud of you for knowing all of those things", "Currency is pretty much the only guarantee here, and with the euro that is similar as well.", "The UK is 4 countries.", "This is deliberate. It's easier to get western (mostly American) people on board with bombing countries like this if they view them all as desolate wrecks already.", "Yep, six weeks of paid days off each year gives the British a lot of time to travel.", "In those cases it’s for the buggery of young boys. Do you think people should NOT be killed for sodomizing children?", "But are you proud of yourself for knowing less than that about foreign countries?\n\nAnd BTW, I don't think that this is something that Americans should be laughed about. It's just the way the world is. The UK is somewhat similar, they don't have such a dominant cultural production as the US, but they are as bad as speaking foreign languages, while everybody speaks theirs.\n\nBut you should at least realize that other people are not as ignorant about your country as you are about theirs.", "austerity", "\"a picture of Iran as a country of religious fundamentalist zealots and terrorists\"\nSwap in America for Iran and this statement is pretty accurate", "but you don't know what I know about foreign countries. Again you are basing what you think you know about me on what you think the average citizen knows. You are generalizing an entire country.", "This is derivative nonsense, but I suppose its trendy to hate on the US these days, so no doubt will pass as insightful.\n\n> It wasn't because \"They hate our freedoms.\"\n\nIs that so? That seems an odd claim to make given that Bin Laden wrote a letter justifying his reasons for 9/11 and included the following;\n\n>In the above-mentioned 2002 \"Letter To America\", bin Laden laments the immoral behavior that has become the norm in the United States as a motivating factor in his decision to launch the attacks:\n\n>the second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you. (a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling, and trading with interest.\"\n\nYeh, they love our freedoms alright. Remind me which country tosses homosexuals off rooftops again?\n\nThe notion that Islamic extremism only exists because of the US backed coup in Iran is beyond absurd. OBL has never listed the rise to power of the infidel Shia regime, one that he hated fiercely as a justification for 9/11, or anything else for that matter. Further, Islamic extremism has existed since the foundation of Islam. No entity on earth has killed more Muslims than other Muslims. \n\nAs for this fairytale that Iran would have remained a secular liberal democracy and only 'big bad US' changed its course, you've have to be an idiot or spectacularly naïve to believe that. Egypt in the 1950s was also a vibrant secular state.\n\nHere is Nasser and a large crowd of Egyptians laughing at the Muslim Brotherhood trying to enforce the Hijab. \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZIqdrFeFBk\n\n\nNow here is today, a woman being savagely beaten for not wearing the covering.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5_RHPO9lIQ\n\nWhat year was the US coup in Egypt again? \n\nWe were attacked on 9/11 because a group of psychotic fundamentalists filled with hate wanted to. It wasn't warranted, it wasn't deserved, we didn't 'bring it on ourselves'. The coup in Iran was a terrible course of action, but to attribute to it every ill we have faced from the region since is nothing more than partisan revisionism's.", "> America has however many languages there are in the world\n \nmy sides", "Apparently, reddit is populated by people who need detailed instructions for detecting obvious sarcasm.\n\nGuess why I put those words in quotes? Guess why I claimed that modern countries have sand dunes and camels in their capitals?\n\nNow instead of being outraged, be embarrassed instead.", "What do they do with all the dead bodies though?", "We are talking about averages. They work by generalization.\n\nIf you don't believe me, ask any American who has lived abroad, anywhere, for a long time. Knowledge about America is global. Information about America is pervasive and unescapable. A lot of us don't know as much about our own countries as we know about the US.", "This is one of the richer and less populated districts in Tehran tho. Not a great representative of how Tehran or Iran looks like.", "Before or after the Islamic Revolution?", "Curated videos, because he can be tracked. And hanged for treason if he shows anything bad.\n\nActually... probably it's a state employee.", "They make the families clean them.", "Why no google earth", "You think people are lying when they say a major city looks like a major city?", ">Iran as a country of religious fundamentalist zealots\n\ndid you see a whole lot of women in that video? i saw a lot of middle aged and old men while i barely saw any women and the women who were there were covered from head to toe, yeah my views did not change it is a country full of religious extremists.", "Unfortunately, the laws for protecting historical and old structures in Iran are not enforced strictly, therefore most of them are destroyed and replaced by random and ugly architecture for profit. The old and traditional architecture is preserved only in a few small districts in Tehran. The city also used to have lots and lots of gardens, which were destroyed or replaced.", "Eh... Admittedly I’ve only been to Chicago 2 or 3 times.. but I actually found it to be one of the dirtier cities I’ve been to.", "i love it", "What a stupid fucking argument going on between you two.", "There might be no street view but there very much is 'Google Earth' available of Iran.", "Is it an argument if some guy is claiming something that's obviously wrong and I'm illustrating why it's wrong?\n\nAnd why in the world are you getting into it if you think it's stupid?", "Do you think big cities are all alike? In my experience (so cities including Sydney, Tehran, Hong Kong, London, Rome, Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Dubai) they are all quite different.", "Please don't try to argue with a guy that just compared the differences between Texas and Arkansas to those between Scotland and England.", "Not many because you don't get enough (or often, any) annual leave to travel internationally.", "It is mandatory, and you can get into deep shit for violating it. But when there aren't any “moral police” officers around to enforce it, women get a chance to dress a bit more freely (although you can still get harassed and assaulted by weirdos).\n\nThere are more unemployed women than men, and also due to the hostile environment (moral police, creeps, etc.) they tend to prefer moving around by cars instead of walking.", "Put some trap music over it and I'll watch it", "It's a curated video, showing what looks \"western\".", "Great Chicago fire FTW", "Come over to /r/SlowTV we love this stuff. Thanks.", "What I'd imagine Iran to look like? This title makes it sound like people were expecting to see mud huts or something haha.", "Go learn something about industrial relations champion.", "> Tehran driving is on another level.\n\nLaughs in Vietnam", "Who else in the world \"travel much\"??? Americans travel more than other nations.\n\nEvery country sees itself as \"the best\" because of politicians and local media that bank on that for their popularity.", "Talking about stereotypes \"US is homogenous\". Half of the population wants to secede now, 20% is fresh from South America or Africa. \n\nInside EU is different how?", "Who else didn't feel like that was completely different from what you'd imagine Iran would look like? What am to expect? A barren desert with mud huts?", "All cities have bad and nice parts", "Sure, as opposed to Western Media who tells us Iran wants to kill us with nukes every six months or so.", "What would you imagine Iran looks like? A bunch of caves and piles of rock? Daammn OP", "Compared to what? For a city of millions its pretty clean", "You are the one that compared the two in the first place lol. Saying not to compare, after comparing is kind of funny. \n\nWaco and kileen? No, I agree, theres not as big of a difference. San Fransisco and Atlanta? Los Angeles and New York? Austin and Chicago? They are wildly different. \n\nThe US is not as old as the UK, and obviously not as old as actual Europe, so youre not wrong as to the extreme differences found between countries being greater than between our states.However, you make it seem like there are no major differences, and thats what we mean when we say youre ignorant. \n\nTheres are 350 languages spoken in the US. There are 12 distinct major dialects of English spoken, with 100+ regionaly dialects found between them. There are millions of every race, and so many different ethnicities that we dont know them all. Most European countries are homogenous as fuck (looking at you specifically Scandanavian countries) and the second it starts looking like there are more nonwhites, yall freak out (lol Brexit). \n\nWe are not a monolith, and some of us are tired of hearing how we are.", "No slums? Murica to the rescue. Let's show them capitalism.", "There are a number of things on that list that should in no way be punishable by death. Are you saying that they only ever opt to apply the death penalty to the ones that involve pedophilia? Why not just leave it at pedophilia which is already on the list then?", "Dont get your kilt in a tizzy, I didnt say that. But I would say Hawaii and New York are that different. Or california and Texas. Or Florida and Alaska. \n\nIn b4 those dont count cause _______ reason.", "Yeah, it was a bit of hyperbole, Ill grant you.", "Oh great they have nice areas for the elites while the general public lives under a cruel insane regime and a family lives on a pittance in comparison. Yay what a great country /s", "Let me guess, you live in a country with a low population and an abysmal GDP? Things are different here, I’m not sure why the rest of the world feels high and mighty for getting a month off of work. So you get to play international traveler but…can you really afford it?", "Iran isn’t even that arid. They have mountains and dense forests.", "Alternatively, I could continue not to cater to the hard-of-reading and the quick-to-get-outraged.", "You’re right and not at the same time. Have you not noticed the massive difference when you fly two hours overseas? It’s something we simply don’t have here.", "I don't really understand what argument you're trying to make? I live in Sydney Australia for reference. Standard of living is pretty great here and our GDP is far from abysmal.", ">Belgium has 2 languages, for example. \n\n3.", "How familiar are you with Appalachian culture vs. general American culture?", "> just about nowhere in the world is how they imagine it to be, especially London and Paris.\n\nExcept for the fact that most of the high/shopping streets in most modern cities are simulacrums of America of course. Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, KFC, McDonalds, Burger King, Apple stores, etc. \n\nOr are you saying Americans think it's all pubs and horse drawn carriages? The only think that surprised be about London/Paris/Rome was how dirty they were and how many annoying touts there were. \nIf you want to visit a clean, unique city you need to skip the big ones and hit Copenhagen, Vilnius, Oslo (sorta), etc.", "The title of the post says that it \"is completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like\". \n\nPeople are responding to that idea.", "I wish he would've done this before 1979 when all the ladies were wearing bikinis and short skirts everywhere.", "Yeah this is pretty much exactly how I expected Iran to look, how did OP think it would look?", ">Inside EU is different how?\n\nDrive for two hours and you no longer understand the language, basic customs, food, media, architecture is different, road signs are confusing etc. You are 100% in a different country, not just a different state.", "Everything is tinted brown, people walking around firing AK-47’s into the air, pickup trucks of people holding RPG’s, bombed out buildings and sand everywhere.", "Thats fair. The age of most other countries dwarfs ours and the internet has made everything even more homogenous in our country. There definitely isnt a difference in culture two towns over like you find in some other countries. \n\nI apologise if I came off as antagonistic. I see a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding of the US based on sterotypes, and kinda hit a nerve.", "The cars are exactly what I expected though. \n\nOld. Not surprising with all the trade embargoes going on.", "Yeah, its true. I was being a bit hyperbolic.", ">The only movie I've seen that takes place in Iran was Argo, and it seems to be a pretty accurate portrayal of the city.\n\nWatch Iranian movies, they are actually quite good.", "That’s how America wants you to think of it yes. (Source am American).", "Yeah? I mean I was just describing the city from experience. I could do the same for a number of others. \n\nLike I'm not sure what your triple question mark point really is?", "> was a highly educated \n\nThe literacy rate in 1960 was about 30%\n\n> democracy prior to 1953\n\nThe election that put Mossadegh in power, which was free-ish but had abysmal turnout, saw Mossadegh stop counting votes after a bare quorum was reached, coincidentally with every single elected member of parliament being of his own party. The principal party disadvantaged by Mossadegh's transparent election rigging was, ironically for the politics of many on reddit, the communist party. It was also the first election that was worth the name in Iranian history\n\n> The western imperialism on display created a common enemy for the people, who rallied around a charismatic religious leader, the Ayatollah Khomeini\n\nThe Iranian Revolution against the Shah was a broad based movement with everybody from the communists to secular liberals involved. The Ayatollah and his followers then effectively staged a coup d'etat of their own to hijack the revolution, in the process murdering tens of thousands of fellow revolutionaries, disproportionately communists\n\n> The religious awakening in the region began with the Shi'a and quickly spread to the Sunni\n\noh my god, you have absolutely no understanding of islam nor history\n\n> ncluding the young scion of an Saudi construction company, Osama Bin Laden. This young man would grow up to mastermind the 9/11 attacks.\n\nThat \"young man\" was in his mid-20s when the Iranian Revolution happened and was radicalized by the resistance to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, not a revolution among people of a religion he considered to be heretics worthy of death\n\n> that's why the views here are so surprising to so many people. Iran is a nice country full of lovely people\n\nThis is a video of a guy walking around the part of Tehran built as a playground for members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps with money stolen from the Iranian people. Like walking around Park Avenue in NYC and claiming that that's the Real America that they don't want you to know about", "Terrorist country", "There's also a part that speaks German actually.", "For real, countries cat fish often. I'm from lebanon, google it and you'll see amazing pictures. Go there and its literally a shit hole", "This is one of the richest neighborhoods in Tehran and basically only the families of Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps leaders can afford to live here, where they spend the money looted from the vast majority of Iran's population on nice things\n\nIt's a nice place! But this is like walking through Beverly Hills and claiming that's what America really looks like", "This. If only more people would realize this.", "I once explained that concept to a bigot who hated all Muslims. I told him, that the vast majority of the people he fears and hates are just trying to live normal lives like you and me. He gave it maybe a second of thought before blurting out what he thought was in the Quran or something, I had stopped listening to him by that point.", "Oh ya man, we’ve got 350 million zealots and terrorists over here.", "First day in Hanoi and thought we'd wait for a break in traffic before crossing.\n\nOn the last day, just walk; be deliberate with your movement and mopeds will miss you.", "Most westerners have a twisted idea of what Iranian culture looks like. The \"tensions\" with Iran are purely political/between governments. This VICE documentary will educate a lot of the \"misinformed\" people on what Iranian culture is like and how most Iranian citizens view western culture: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voA0cS1JiGQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voA0cS1JiGQ)", "As someone who just moved from Toronto to Vancouver and has been traveling back and forth, Vancouver is way cleaner than Toronto currently. Obviously East Hastings is an exception to that but as a whole Toronto sidewalks and parks are way dirtier.", "Vancouver used to be exceptionally clean.", "Any in particular you'd recommend? I love foreign films.", "Source?", "What an incredible point this guy makes. \n\n\"The British travel a ton so that means the US does not.\"", "The sauce is tomato paste based not ketchup. But people add ketchup or mayo on the pizza occasionally.\n\nStrange beef toppings you refer to are either ground beef or beef sausage. Very common in North America as well.", "Oh god listening to our media (which is almost certainly only the large corporate media) is more likely to lead you to believe the opposite of what is true.", "It’s pretty simple. Employee rights are different here because the circumstances are different. You guys have 25mm people to feed and house. We have 400mm people to deal with. And you know, we are not bound to the American corporate way of life. It is much easier to be self employed here in the states and you can always just move to another country if you like their lifestyle.", "As an American moviegoer I expect Mexico and the middle east to all have a sepia filter on", "I lived in Iran when I was a teenager. Man to man sex was very common and available and thought I was often invited, I declined because of my moral beliefs against non-marital sex. The rationale given was that they had no access to females, so their only outlet was with each other. I don't know if this has changed.", "Abbas abad?", "Very very nice people. The nicest people I've ever met.", "Which is what the government wants Americans to think so they can justify going to war with them.", "You've obviously never been to the middle east. Go to Kuwait, Bahrain, Egypt, etc and you will find all of those things that you listed. \n\nThere are richer, cleaner areas, but a lot of the cities are dirty and run down.\n\nYes, there are places like [this](https://i.imgur.com/6P4f6kz.jpg) and [this](https://i.imgur.com/ALrQVAn.jpg) that are clean and nice to visit, but most of the country is more like [this](https://i.imgur.com/PhQgwKg.jpg).\n\nI always thought [this](https://i.imgur.com/lot1yOQ.jpg) picture showed a good dichotomy. A gutted run down building in the middle of all of the skyscrapers that were built up around it.\n\nOh, and yes there are [camels](https://i.imgur.com/mhwfWYE.jpg). They like french fries.", "Not really many advertisements plastered everywhere! Looks nice.", "There we are @19:53", "Is this a joke you can literally get pizza made with BBQ sauce instead of marinara which is mostly ketchup lol", "You mean a handful of blocks downtown?", "If the coup never happened, the rise in Islamic religious fundamentalism in Iran and the middle east might have not happened, or it might have been less significant. You're deliberately ignoring the effects of US meddling in the middle east and trying to blame it all on the muslims.", "One spot of Iran. You can go to North Korea and find nice looking cities too.", "It really depends on the time of the year that you visit. Toronto sidewalks are filthy in March / April because the snow is melting and all the dogshit and salt and slush is left behind. By summer it’s all been cleaned up.", "I’ve lived in Chicago for nearly two decades. It’s remarkably clean unless it’s a parade holiday or music festival, which get messy because of the tourists but are always completely cleaned up within a day or two.", "I mean, so is the U.S., so same same but different. Each has their own unique flavour of misogyny.", "Taxi, Divorce Iranian Style, Offside\n\nAlso, I loved the Egyptian film Clash (Eshtebak)", "Yikes man, good luck in life being this purposefully obtuse to \"win a point\"\n\nI guess the multiple downvotes, and multiple users trying to explain this simple concept to you still isn't getting through to you, then nothing will. We can't explain it any simpler for you.", "Here is a bunch of claps 👏 bravo you are an international traveler. I been in many cities too.", "What’s your opinion on China?", "To be fair american travel dynamics are very different than most other countries, because they don't actually share a land border with many countries. Most countries bordering or near the USA get a lot of american tourists but going to Tehran is like a 20 hour flight each way.", "Lol. Thank you for acknowledging that. I was like, “oh god, He’s making Americans sound so stupid again oris he just trying to be a troll?” Lol. Late merry Xmas. :)", "Late Merry xmas to you as well :)", "Women are savagely beaten in the U.S. every few\nminutes, at minimum, every day. I don't see many male Americans up in arms about it like they are about \"the Middle-East\". In fact, that convenient and inaccurate monolith gives them an excuse to ignore intimate partner violence and other issues largely affecting women, oftentimes fatally, occurring in the U.S.\n\n[Edit]\n\nStats say: every nine seconds a woman is beaten in the U.S. Let the danger of being American sink in. Canada is hardly any better!", "Title is clickbait af", "Besides the Dutch. Those people are fuckin weird.", "This is pretty much exactly what I would expect Tehran to look like", "Because the title?!?!?!??!", "Title is dumb", "> London, there are 1000 year old buildings which date back to Roman times.\n\nRomans were 2,000 years ago and I wouldn't say there are Romqn buildings in London. Walls and ruins, yes. Not much survived the great fire in 1664, so the oldest you tend to see is about 450yo.", "This clip reminds me of visiting Mexico and needing to get some parts from the Mercedes Benz dealership in a major city. \n\nThe city was the typical low effort sprawling mess, with people living in crumbling abandoned buildings a few blocks from the tourist areas. \n\nOnce you get to the MB dealership however, you can do a 360 degree pan and you won't see any obvious signs of poverty, everything looks like luxury and a modern city, with a 4 star restaurant across the street and many jewelry and art stores littered about.", "I’m from Toronto. Lots of Persian people here. I find them to be very attractive. I’m straight and I think Persian women are stunning. So when I think about Iran, I just imagine beautiful women wearing hijabs. When I was single, I used to work in a neighbourhood that had a lot of young Koreans and Persians. I kept falling in love over and over again….lol.", "It's not like we don't have corporate media and political media and are unable to factor that in. But faulty information is still more information than no information.\n\nTake the legal process as an example. Of course real trials don't look exactly like those in legal drama on TV, but they are still structured the same. You really do have jury trials, with prosecution and defense giving introductory speeches, then calling witnesses, making objections to lines of questioning, closing speeches, jury deliberation, etc. And we all know this because we've all seen tons of American legal drama on TV, and because big trials in the US are covered by our media.\n\nBy contrast, we, especially in smaller countries, have little if any home-grown legal drama. Our own trials are usually not covered as well as American trials, because it's easier for our journalists to translate American news than to do the actual reporting about our legal systems, especially since they grew up on the same American TV shows as we all did. The final result is that many of us understand the American legal system than we do our own.\n\nThere is a related paradoxical phenomenon: despite the censorship in Eastern Europe and free press in the West during the cold war, Eastern Europeans were much better informed about both public and private lives in the West than vice versa.", "I really want to visit Iran but it much like Pakistan and Russia are places I'd love to see but worried I'd be picked up in due to my area of study I was proficient in and qualified for", "Hate these presumptive titles like this. Basically turns them into clickbait. Fuck clickbait.", "Uhhh pretty sure I saw a newer porche in there", "Why is half the signage in English? I thought they were infidels?", "And Fez's\n\nAnd magic carpets\n\nAnd gorgeous ManGod dripping in gold", "Some seasons are definitely dirtier than others, but in general I find the sidewalks don’t get cleaned up quick enough to stay on top of the litter. Living at Spadina & college was especially bad, but I’ve noticed this during bike rides through more residential areas too on the east end and the junction", "Recently I read an answer in AskHistorians about homosexuality in the muslim world which I found quite interesting.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4r17fc/comment/d4xwz1l/?sort=confidence", "Who shit in your grits?", "Chicago is frequently in the top 10 lists of cleanest cities in the world , [for example](https://citi.io/2018/01/01/top-cleanest-cities-in-the-world-2017/) and also voted among [the most beautiful cities](https://www.timeout.com/chicago/news/chicago-was-just-voted-the-2nd-most-beautiful-city-in-the-world-090921). [Here's another short article.](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/aug/25/an-urbanists-guide-to-chicago-the-most-american-of-american-cities)\n\nBut it's also on the list of the most polluted when it comes to air quality [like in this report.](https://www.lung.org/media/press-releases/new-report-chicago-now)", "They're most likely referring to [the coup in '53.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat)", "Do you guys get butthurt when a City that is not USA lookes developed like Iran?", "completely different that what YOU would expect, OP.", "I was expecting Azadi Tower, like, just in the background of every scene. Similarly I expect the Eiffel Tower to be visible from literally any angle in Paris.", "Yeah, that tends to happen when there's a stable government, no foreign military occupation, and no major terrorist organization threats.", "> Who else in the world \"travel much\"??? Americans travel more than other nations.\n\nLess than half the US even have a passport mate.", "I hate religious extremist cultures. Poor women and children.", "Dude you’re being weirdly aggressive and just being a dick for no discernible reason. Maybe a break from the internets? Touch some grass.", "Ahh the classic", "It is a well established fact.", "> Strong national identities in Europe are a breeding ground for fascism.\n\nI mean...they are here, too, unfortunately.", "\"Tehran which is completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like\"\n\nSome of us are educated OP, we know Iran doesn't look like Somalia during the war", "[ Jump to 19:53 @ TEHRAN 2021 - Evening Walk in Saádat Abad Neighborhood / تهران](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h19m53s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Bahador Hadizadeh, Video Length: [26:23])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@19:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h19m48s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Lol tbf, I live in Phoenix and sometimes it feels like the sepia filter is on. Lol.", "Just think if religion wasn't keeping them in the dark ages!", "Great video, it looks like a modern city!\n\nDo you know why there are so many English language signs/restaurants in the video? \n\nDoes the government not mind English signs?\n\nAlso, is there a need? I can’t imagine there are that many tourists coming in from English speaking countries?", "What do they do with the dead bodies in any other city or town in the world?", "I think Anthony Bourdain had an episode in Tehran?", ">which is completely different than what you’d imagine Iran would look like\n\nI’m literally wondering what you meant by this", "> Inside EU is different how?\n\nBecause almost every country there is hundreds of years older than the United States and has its own rich distinct history and clearly differentiated culture and language (or multiple) from the countries around them.\n\nYes, the states and cities and cultures vary here, but it's nothing like in Europe.\n\nThis isn't really a controversial concept.", "Gee, I wonder why more American's wouldn't take a chance on traveling to Iran, to see it [first-hand](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akd4UN6_ZXg)?", "This doesn't make any sense. American movies that depict wars that have already happened show blown up buildings and areas because they're blown up. Many use this as a plot mechanism that draws a direct line between American intervention and radicalization. \n\n\nThe news films war torn areas because - guess what - they're war torn areas.\n\n\nWhat exactly are they supposed to do? You're telling me Hollywood shows me people's modest homes being destroyed instead of pristine parts of the city to hide the fact that there's an unbombed urban area of the city? Why would the news show that, and how would it make me somehow more upset?\n\n\nYour point is that there's somehow a global conspiracy between news networks and Hollywood to make me accept war in the Middle East despite the way it's portrayed doing exactly the opposite.\n\n\nYour point is a thin one and kind of dumb if you give it more thought than a 13yo edgelord.", "Except I'm not a leftist and this has literally nothing to do with race, it's just basic history.\n\nThe UK and the US have been disrupting oil rich states in the middle east for decades because they have enough oil that they could control the market with embargoes and put a halt to the global economy.", "The fuck are you on about. They portray that area of the world in general like it's all desolate 3rd world countries. No leftist agenda. Idk if it's because they don't want backlash for the war on terror or if it's because they just don't care enough to go into detail but it's definitely true.", "Looking at your history I now see you hate americans. I've never even been to the USA, big guy.", "[We travel a lot domestically and to Mexico, but no, we don't travel internationally more than other countries.](https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-whose-citizens-travel-the-most.html)\n\nIt's not really even close.\n\nPart of that is obviously just the physical reality of the logistics: the only (convenient) international travel we can do is to Canada and Mexico, really, whereas in Europe you can get everywhere by train or a short plane ride (or even just a short drive).", "Some that I still think about to this day:\n\nThe Mirror (1997)\n\nFireworks Wednesday (2006)\n\nA Moment of Innocence (1996)\n\nTaste of Cherry (1997)", "Well, if it all just makes you irrationally angry you need to take a step back. If people are telling you to touch grass so often that it’s a “classic” then maybe you should take them up on it? The other boxes here with the text in them? Those are other people. If you’re spending all your energy shitting on their heads for no reason, maybe try to figure out why? You might be less miserable.", "It wasn't aid. Shah spent a good chunk of the country's money buying US weapons.", "Their xenophobic asshole.", "Our President literally droned striked Iran's top General and there was no backlash within our country. No one cared or even noticed for the most part.", "I'm surprised by how many English language signs there are.", ">The US is pretty large so even going to a different state could be similar to how your average European may travel.\n\nYeah, I don't think people understand that the US and it states are more like countries sometimes. There is more difference between Southern California and West Virginia than there is Germany and France. We have a lot of vastly different cultures within our states and cities.", "Lot more english on the signage than I expected.", "Argo", ">In the aftermath of World War I there was widespread political dissatisfaction with the royalty terms of the British petroleum concession, under the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC), whereby Persia received 16% of \"net profits\"\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953\\_Iranian\\_coup\\_d%27%C3%A9tat", "We certainly have a lot of terrorists, in a sense. We also have problems that other nations see as HUGE red flags such as school shooting/mass shootings being normalized since we do nothing about it (aside from thoughts and prayers), and 800+ military bases scattered around the globe. We have plenty (millions) of wacky religious fundamentalists, crazy militant groups and 25% of the worlds prison population even though we're only 5% of the world population. We spend more on military than the next 12 countries combined. \n We had a president try to corrupt an election with the help of a bunch of gullible nuts. We have an election process where the popular vote doesn't' always equal the candidate, and that has turned out pretty shitty the last 2 times.\n\nIran has socialized healthcare, and socialized university education, though the Ministry of Education is in charge of educational planning, financing, administration, curriculum, and textbook development. That is not a good thing, but that's what a lot of crazies in the US want.....they want a \"one religion\" education, and they're trying every trick in the book to get religious education paid for by taxes, with the religious nuts in the Supreme Court showing signs they're on board. \n\n\nI can see how other countries see us as a country full of nutjobs, just as we see their country as a country of nutjobs and in a way, that is correct.", "Southern Afghanistan does have the sepia filter.\n\nKandahar is actually a fairly built up city considering the surrounding villages, but it's still got open air meat markets and whatnot. It's really fascinating to drive through downtown and see an actual city in Afghanistan, populated by men, children, and an army of blue burkas. I've never been to the North.\n\nAny other vets got a story about downtown Kandahar?", ">I know that it is a mountain chain spanning almost the entire height of the continent.\n\nThis answer was pretty telling. Lol.", "Isn't that basically ketchup without sugar and vinegar?", "\\* YTer walks through a square block of the most upscale part of a capital, \"look it's nice\"\n\n\\* OP posts link, says \"see, it's not like what you would assume\"\n\n\\* OP anticipates upvote shower for zero effort\n\n\\* OP assumes everyone thinks closed-off country is a craphole\n\n\\* thread becomes about how iranian pizza is made with ketchup\n\n\\* turns out iran is a food craphole, among other horrible things\n\n\\* OP realizes giant mistake", "I stand with you. Redditors (and I guess techno-obsessed youngsters with poor social skills from a life of staring at tablets and phones) need to get a grip on what sarcasm really looks like. We don't end our sarcastic statements in person with /s. These people need to learn to identify one of the most basic concepts in the English language. You made it extremely obvious up above that you were being sarcastic, I could tell right away. It's sad people are so clueless not to be able to recognize that and actually need that stupid /s designation to flip a bit in their basic brains and go \"ah hahhhhhh I see!\"", "> those that are, covered head to foot.\n\nDid you watch the video?\n\nThere were women, and they were only wearing hijabs. \n\nThe burqa is Arabic, and Iranians are Persian. The kind of covering you're talking about isn't even part of their culture.\n\nLike, I'm not going to claim they've got the best culture for women's rights or anything, but I'm also not just going to blanket lump them in with other even more regressive regimes.", "The quotation marks around \"westernized\" are more than clear enough.", "go outside and talk to a real human. might do you some good", "Civil wars tend to do that, unfortunately. I hope the peace stays and your country prospers!", ">different to what AMERICANS imagine Iran would look like.\n\nThere.", "I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of Americans over the age of 13 don't do this", "None of the U.S. govt chickenhawks or media people reporting on/shitting on Iran have ever been to the place. \n\nAmerican media and political policy is literally make believe barbie playhouse.", "It's definitely not I frequently drive up for vacation from Memphis and have lived all over the united states", "I'm saying \"our\" to position myself as an American. Our past president had people around him foaming at the mouth to go to war with Iran, and luckily he was too cowardly to do anything. What the fuck does it matter where Soleimani was? Why is a Finn making excuses for one of the most powerful, unaccountable militaries in the world and echoing their talking points?", "Don't forget kids running in the street. Perhaps chasing a football. Eventually one of them will walk into the middle of the street and do the world's slowest ball pickup as a truck drives towards him.", "Belgium has three official languages. Dutch, French, and German.\n\nFour if you count West Flanders because I don't think anyone understands those people.", "> and the rest of the world has absurd notions about the United States. I live in Appalachia and even here just traveling 1 hour in any direction the culture can start to change pretty quickly. The US is pretty large so even going to a different state could be similar to how your average European may travel.\n\nYour comment basically sums up the world's opinion on America. It hilariously reinforces that this is what Americans think", "If the US just didn't exist, it's likely Iran would be living under a Soviet or Nazi flag. And I don't think that would be better.", "It still is, but it used to be too.", "and your comment sums up that nobody thinks about you at all.", "Fortunately the rest of the world has perfectly researched opinions of America and doesn't in any way fall back on stereotypes of what it's like here. We're just a backwards little country trying to get by in a world of all you enlightened folk.", "Everyone knows the loop denotes Chicago's city limits.", "I’m always blown away when someone links to a post from more than 4 years ago. The comments always seem so civil.", "That counts travel to the rest of the EU which was frictionless. We'll see how those numbers pan out now that you guys fucked that all the way up.", "Or “Let me demonstrate my ignorance of the world further than my own incredibly narrow life experience”", "Yes. Most people just want their families to be happy, healthy, and safe. People are people.\n\nWith religion though, I don't trust anybody who puts their faith in a book. Morality must stand on its own merit.", "Countless pizza chains offer some variant of this disgrace", "His hilarious point includes travel to the EU which had no borders \"before COVID\". Now that they yeeted their way out of the EU his numbers are going to look a bit different.", "How do you know the OP is American?", "We should all take a moment to realize that a person's underlying nature may not be towards prejudice or racism, but when fed constant bullshit by every significant media source they are exposed to, prejudice and racism may result. They're not a lost cause, just a product of careful planning.", "I'm Irish, Americans spend a lot of time thinking about us and their heritage...", "What's your point? \n\nTomato is the base for many sauces...like marinara, for one.\n\nTomato puree would just be really plain for a pizza.", "Lmao what country? Finland? Idgaf what your country did and Idgaf what you think my politics are. It's not a political statement in any way, what would the motive for that be? And also it's just anecdotal evidence and I'm just having a discussion not a debate, I'm not an expert so fuck off with your bullshit. Both sides here in the US agree the war on terror was not good.", "You are increasingly proving your ignorance. People from all over the world immigrated to the US for over 100 years. Do you think they just left their cultures behind? We have huge pockets of culturally distinct people from Germany, Italy, Ireland, all the countries of Asia.... etc... It shows in our food, our holiday celebrations, our music, art, literature. Yup, even our architecture.", "[His National Security Advisor has a history of hawkishness toward Iran and calling for regime change](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/bolton-keeps-trying-goad-iran-war/592108/) but by the way you sound you probably agree with everything he says.", "You and every member of parliament.", "So 90% of what he's saying is language differences.", "And yet all the top comments are rational viewpoints.", "Mercedes (Germany) has a long history of doing business with Iran. There was a bit of a hiccup after Trump admin increased sanctions in 2019, but you still see Mercedes, Porches, VW's and other German cars in Iran.", "And everything that's been said about America in this thread would apply if you changed it to Texas. We're huge, culturally and politically diverse, wide split of urban and rural, geographically diverse, etc...", "It is far cleaner than I expected.", "This has nothing to do with Google Earth. Its literally a style of video made on Youtube. You can choose pretty much any major city and someone has made this video for that city. A japanese ramen resturant I worked at would play walking around tokyo videos.", "No point, just suggesting that tomato puree wouldn't taste much different than marinara sauce. Ketchup, on the other had would taste a LOT different, to me.", "absolutely but the video is about iran and not usa, i agree with you but thats not the subject of the video.", "I'm surprised so many signs are in english.", "I'm literally commenting about the news media being trash, something that the conservative party heartily agrees with. You guys can't even keep your political agenda straight.", "The US unilaterally withdrew from nuclear deal with Iran in 2018 and reimposed and expanded sanction against Iran. You could say Trump did this but Biden continues to maintain Trump's sanctions. It is shameful and it is killing people in the pandemic", "There are more Americans traveling in Europe than Europeans traveling in Americas.", "It's exactly what I thought it would be like.", "Uhh...It looks exactly what I imagined it did...", "That’s interesting. I wasn’t aware of that, thank you for sharing.", ">Because almost every country there is hundreds of years older than the United States\n\nSo what? People are not hundreds of year old. Customs and traditions emigrated in US too, and populations kept their own \"cultural boundaries\".", "Mate, using a passport to travel from Britain to get krunk in Ibiza is not considered \"traveling\".\n\nThere are more Americans visiting Europe than the other way around. There are Americans vacationing in Mexico, Caribe Islands, Pacific Islands (not only Hawaii), Philippines, I even have two friends that visited Japan.\n\nWhen Europeans \"travel\" is like taking the train from Milan to Innsbruck.", "Just because people repeat that the west steals oil from the Middle East doesn’t mean it’s a well established fact. Who was responsible, how did it occur, and what were the motivating factors?", "Dude’s profile is 45 minutes old. He’s just being trash on purpose", "\"Americans travel the most if we just exclude when other countries travel and say it's not travelling\"\n\nOK buddy. Strange hill to die on but at least you're dead.", "Of course it is. The job of ALL television is to market products. \"News\"-styled broadcasts are highly effective at fear of loss marketing vectors and several others. The \"news\" is just there to prepare you for each commercial break.", "Well, do you buy it? Just because it exists doesn't mean it's popular. \n\nYou can go to Subway and tell them you want nothing but mayonnaise and mustard on bread and they'll do it. Doesn't mean everyone does. Or should. Please don't.", "Have you been to a Muslim country?", "Iran was an english territory until the revolution.", "It’s more of a UK prerogative historically, but I’ve still never seen anybody explain exactly how the US or UK were pilfering oil from the Middle East. I only ever hear people say it as a snarky dismissal of the real factors at play. When I ask, I receive responses like “it’s a well established fact” or something along those lines.", "I see and the UK’s interest in middle eastern oil has been well documented and began over a century ago. I have not seen a source explaining how the US government or any American oil companies were taking oil from the Middle East. Not saying I wouldn’t be open to the information.", "> a lot cleaner looking.\n\nNorthern Europe is clean like this.\n\nWestern and Southern Europe has a lot of litter, but is also drowning in tourists.\n\nEastern Europe is a mixed bag, but some are clean though the buildings are often in need of repair.\n\nI don't know about American cities, but the stereotype is that they're full of trash and homeless people.", "I mean same with New York City. Part of this might be that you can't smell a photo.", "The coup in Iran is very well established history. This isn’t some grand and vague conspiracy. Perhaps you should read the links that other users have posted.", "Are all Muslim countries the same?", "> Our President literally droned striked Iran's top General and there was no backlash within our country. No one cared or even noticed for the most part.\n\nAnd they bombed us back. \n\nYou’re naive and ignorant of how global politics and militaries work.", "This looks like a fairly normal, well-off district of a major city - just with very few women being out and those that are out have to cover almost all parts of themselves.", "Looks like California ha. I wouldn’t mind visiting to be honest.", "Persian men are beautiful too.", "Gotcha.", "> Our past president had people around him foaming at the mouth to go to war with Iran, and luckily he was too cowardly to do anything\n\nUnlike Bush? Fuck off for supporting war mongers. Trump was a shitty President and terrible human being, but he has always been famously anti-war. Dumbases like you think not going to war makes you a “coward.”", "Seattle is not a run-down place, but people definitely dress down.", "Idk I feel like if it wasn't popular it wouldn't be a menu option at some of the largest pizza chains in the US, Dominoes legit has it on their regular menu people clearly are buying it.", "You’re welcome.", "They created this account just to troll this post. Weird.", "Thanks for the heads up lol", "U dumb, get a life, have a good one", "Lmao the second the video started with Saadatabad and i saw a Porsche i rolled my eyes", "Lol what a productive use of their time", "Paris entered the chat", "Same with most countries honestly. I bet nearly every country out there has a tourism video of how pretty it is, as well as the 'worst part of X' video showing how terrible and dangerous it is.", "I expect the first scene of the movie Aladdin, and anyone that tells you different is lying.", "The Media has everybody's view of the world warped plain and simple. You even have Americans scared to visit their own cities. Most danger is contained to small pockets most cities are completely safe just don't hang with the wrong crowd.", "honestly it's what I expected it to look like with one exception, I was not expecting so many businesses to have their signage in English, and it looks like even the street signs have English under the Arabic characters...\n\n\nalso those are some wacky traffic lights", "Juxtaposition is routinely used in cinema all the time. Just not in the kinds of movies the OP is referring to.", "That's about as ironic as rain on your wedding day.", "Yeah that's what I thought.", "Iran a country of moderates ruled by extremists \n\nAs opposed to the rest of the Middle East, which are \"Countries of extremists, ruled by moderates\"", "Hyperbole at its laziest.", "It's not pro state propaganda though, most of the stuff shown is anti Islamic regime, don't you think if it was state sponsored it would be pro regime stuff? Most stuff shown on reddit shows the glory days of pre Islamic regime Iran.", "It's not exactly pilfering, they just don't want one entity united in the middle east with control of the majority of the world's oil, one of the world's primary resources that control the economy. We saw a glimpse of how that could force hands geopolitically during the 1973 OPEC embargo.\n\nAll of the wars in Iraq were exactly about preventing something like this from happening. There's no real way to steal oil from across the globe in meaningful quantities unless you just take the profits from its sale, which is what was happening in Iran, or when you tie its sale to the US dollar, which stabilises and supports the US economy.\n\nUS & UK interference in the middle east has been a bit of profiting off of oil in the case of Iran and a couple of other instances, but it's been mostly about ensuring the middle east cannot form any negotiating advantage over the west.", "Must be all the wind blowing the dust off.", "Ironic that you lambast the lack of education on Iranian politics while completely misunderstanding it yourself.\n\nIran was not so black and white and while I’m the last to forgive the US for it’s neo-imperialism the situations regarding Mossadeghs election and overthrow, the brutality of the Shah, the following formation of the revolutionary front (and subsequent betrayal of the Socialist Tudeh Party by the Ayatollah) is entirely missing from your analysis. I can see you’re viewing Iran from a leftist perspective so I recommend viewing the revolution through the lens of the ACTUAL lefists, the Tudehs, of which my fathers family were members of. \n\nYour view lacks criticality, over-emphasizes the role of the CIA (they are not nearly as influential as everyone seems to give them credit, much to their own dismay I imagine), and disregard the changing perspective of Iran on the western influence of the Shah who has been in power for many decades by then.", "Can women drive yet?", "People really don’t understand the history of Iran. It’s highly complex and involves the power plays of dozens of entities. People also seem to not understand the intensity of the urban-rural divide in Iran by assuming that the capital of Tehran is representative of all areas in Iran. The country is HUGE and home to many ethnic groups and environments. Look at pictures of countryside outside Tabriz if you want another peek the countries modernity.", "Interesting. Thank you for the detailed response.", "Reminds me of the movie „Taxi Tehran“ which came out a few years ago and was presented on the Berlinale film festival. Definetily a must see!", "did people think they had nuclear power to run a stonemill?", "That's in there too. Iran executes homosexual people. And apostates apparently!", "Completely different than what you'd imagine huh? Such a clown.", "You’re over-emphasizing the role of the CIA. Mossadegh was a figure that had mixed opinions in Iran. He had angered the religious right, the Tudeh left, and the Shah himself. His support base was primarily a faction of liberals, socialites, and moderates. \n\nThe CIA was involved on behalf of British Petroleum but the Iranian people had far more autonomy then you’re giving them credit. Why is it so hard to believe he just wasn’t POPULAR? I honestly think it’s into very western-centric of you to assume they were incapable of organizing their own political movements.", "It’s weird that leftist like myself are backing the current regime. They actively killed and replaced the leftist revolutionaries after they overthrew the Shah.", "I was gonna say. I can walk through Philly slum areas and make a video documentary on how Philly is a war zone, despite the fact that center city and old Town are just fine - hell down to market street and along I95 (stadium district) and west Philly University city is fine.\n\nYou ain't convincing me Tehran is perfect with a video of a dude walking around the nicest, unlived block in town. Every financial district in every damn city is clean and nice because no one lives there, it shuts down after 5, and crime prevention is well enforced in those sectors.", "I didn't say anything. You said \"Muslim countries\".\n\nI just asked if you'd been to any, and if they are all the same.\n\nAre the Philippines the same as Saudi Arabia? Is Pakistan the same as Singapore?", "Places we just NEED to bomb for freedom. And Raytheon.", "Is that the normal way traffic lights operate there? Or was that unusual.", "A good rule of thumb is to learn about bigotry and racism and their meaning in the english language.", "In terms of what?", "USA will get its shit together eventually. Takes time.", "This is exactly what I expected Tehran to look like.\n\n\nLike exactly.", "Iran is not at war.", "I agreed with you at first, then you edited it and made it all about this Sweden multicultural nonsense. Stop spouting right wing talking points.", ">Is there anything dumber than an American leftist? \n\nI mean, he wasn't the one that couldn't figure out \"our\" was in relation to his countrymen and not you.", "I live near Woodbine Park in the beach, near Ashbridges Bay and the city workers are never not cleaning in the parks. These parks are well used and well maintained in my opinion. \n\n\nI disc golf in E.T. Seton Park and it is heavily used by the community. People are insane slobs. I will be there first thing in the morning on a Saturday or Sunday and it looks like a rave just ended...but the city workers are there cleaning it up too. It's not long before it's beautiful again. \n\n\nToronto city streets are pretty clean for one of the biggest cities in North America.", "This is honestly the best take on this whole comment section. Mossadegh and his party are not so morally black and white and the situation in Iran is complex. Thank you for your addition, do you have any good sources to read more regarding this?", "North Korea vibes", "Yes the Islamic republic of Iran ministry of information was behind the photo of the woman in skimpy clothing.", "Oh my bad, of course you’re right. I’m sure the American that has never been to Sweden and only heard statistics through Fox news network has the best takes on Nordic multiculturalism.\n\nGo the Sweden you nonce. I have, it’s great. Better then the states.", "Everyone lives in mansions and rides Porsche in Tehran. There's also a nude-only zone near Pasteur Sq.", "Yeah people, not women", ">> You said \"Muslim countries\".\n\nI mean, you said it not me.\n\n\n>> I just asked if you'd been to any, and if they are all the same. \n> \n>And that's a red herring. \n\nYou don't know what a red herring is.\n\n>> Are the Philippines the same as Saudi Arabia? Is Pakistan the same as Singapore? \n> \n>What is your point? \n\nYou know how I know you understand the point? Because you refuse to answer the question. \n\n>Also, a whopping 6% of philippines is muslim for example. You are ignorant as fuck. .\n\nNah, that was an actual red herring.", "It's an upmarket part of a major city, so tbh it's almost exactly what I'd expect that to look like. That sort of standardised international style is present in basically every major urban sprawl from London to Durban.", "Each neighbourhood of Toronto is distinctly different but yeah most of the city is just really nice.", "Maybe I'm in the minority but this is similar to how I imagined it lol", "Apologies for making ethnic assumptions \nabout you.\n\nWhere are you getting they’re my ‘allies’ from? You’re creating coalitions in your head lmao.\n\nAlso the issue with Sweden is the formation of parallel societies which I would argue actually stems from a LACK of cultural integration.\n\nNorway has similar percentages of immigrants moving to the country (compared to total population) and they’ve easily dodged this issue by encouraging cultural homogenization (which is a touchy subject itself!) \n\nI don’t think you’re coming at this from a critical viewpoint willing to make meaningful discussions so I’ll just leave you to your anti-muslim bigotry.", "Lol, you're so out of your depth, you're just gonna make this funnier.\n\nYou don't know what a red herring is, and when presented with one, can't even identify it...", "There's also the US tendency to focus on only the negatives of the country. \n\n The truth is that most Americans live relatively comfortable lives, safe from any violence, but almost everyone will tell you the opposite: \n\nThat they dodge mass shootings daily, live in poverty, and are constantly abused by the fascist authoritarians.", "I mean, look at a postcard of Los Angeles, then go walk around downtown.\n\nThis is not unique to any city, country, or region.", "My wife is Iranian, too, and was actually born in Tehran. She's been telling me about it for years. We were supposed to go back but Covid hit. She shows me pictures all the time of Tehran and the mountains and skiers. I'm dying to go, and I need our kids to go, too. I can't wait to send this video to her.", "Er, think you might want to read Formilla's post again there fella, they don't actually mention war movies - they're talking about the depiction of foreign cities in the broad sweep of US cinema. The most famous examples of this sort of thing are the Mexican yellow tint and the Russian blue tint, both designed to evoke a specific association. Tehran's not been bombed in what, 40 years?", "Lol. Yeah dude. That’s based on factual circumstances around the globe. Who do you think keeps the south China sea open or facilitated the collapse of the Soviet Union or is giving Russia pause on invading Ukraine? I get it, you’re young and rely on Reddit and it’s cool to hate on America. No worries.", "Religion is more than a book, though, and focusing on the inaccuracies of the books could deprive you of a life of spiritual connection. \n\nI believe in the enlightenment values of free inquiry, evidence, etc. but they’ve done little to give us fulfilling lives. \n\nWe can win Reddit arguments tho…", "Critical viewpoint does not mean critical race theory lmao. You dumb as rocks boi", "... and many of the people working in tourist areas. It always has been my experience that those in high traffic tourist areas are cunts and once you leave those areas (sometimes one corner away from them is enough) you meet the nicest people ever.", "US government: wait, that's illegal, shoot them or something", "Wait so if they don't get a girl they just go gay, they straight up skip the wank all day part and go straight to other dudes\n\nWell okay then, I guess people do things differently", "Yes, they had political factions and tensions. The US and British intelligence agencies manipulated those tensions and factions to their own benefit. And not just in Iran before 1953, but across the middle east, throughout the cold war. Again, you're ignoring the meddling, and pushing the blame on the people that were manipulated. I'm not making the point that they were all dumb innocent and ignorant of what was happening, but I'm saying that if the US and britain had left the middle east alone, maybe the twin towers would still be standing.", "Not a socialist and also never denied increased crime rates, you’ve just been imagining a straw man.\n\nI said the reason was because of lack of cultural homogenization. It’s a critical way at looking at increased crime rates. You obviously won’t engage in actual discussion so I’m just taking the piss at this point.", "And I agree. Had we not interceded in the middle east as much as we did maybe they would still be standing. But in your pursuit of this worldview you are giving far too much credit to the British and US when it comes to Iranian politics.\n\nYou could just as easily claim the USSR was at fault for their support of the Tudehs who went and supported the Ayatollahs revolution. But I wouldn’t make that claim, because the Iranian people acted with far more autonomy then you give them credit.\n\nMore then anything Osama was encouraged by the USSR invasion of Afghanistan which is itself its whole own can of worms.", "8:18 holy shit memory unlocked. Those things are fucking laced. The most addictive thing on earth.", "My in-laws are from Tehran (the affluent part), and my mother-in-law was astounded by how many people asked her if she had a pet camel when she arrived in Canada.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nAlthough, to be fair, her only knowledge of what Canada looked like before she arrived was from watching shows like Anne of Green Gables. So when she moved here she thought she was signing up to live on a farm house in the prairies, where your closest neighbour is a kilometer away. Then she landed in Toronto and realized that she was just as wrong about Canada as folks here were about Iran :P", "It’s not ideal to just outright call Americans idiots because some of us put Trump in office. Most of us know what a major city looks like and that Tehran is a major city.", "My parents were Americans working in Iran in the 1970s and I remember traveling all over the country - the Caspian Sea, Isfahan, Shiraz, Tabriz, Tehran, and all over where we lived near the Persian Gulf. It was always a beautiful country.", "what?", "See also New Orleans. People romanticize quiet strolls along Bourbon St… one of the foulest places I’ve ever been.", "Well, is there a difference between these countries or not? Does being \"Muslim\" make a country more similar to other Muslim countries?", "[ Jump to 08:18 @ TEHRAN 2021 - Evening Walk in Saádat Abad Neighborhood / تهران](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h8m18s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Bahador Hadizadeh, Video Length: [26:23])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@08:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_V_L6RO3U&t=0h8m13s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Never said they were, I'm saying that's the stereotypical image people have.", "Iran was better off under American rule", "Someone doesn't want to answer a simple question... 🎵 🎶", "In general", "Dude, I was shocked when I visited Miami (first time in the U.S too), other than their main intersections, the city was quite the opposite.\n\nOnly city I saw with mass homelessness, and an endless amount of supercars driving by all at the same time.", "Our point is that Appalachian communities are incredibly different from general American communities. So you discussing that the US is more homogenized (which generally I agree with, if you’re looking at the US broadly) is skewed because you’re not fully aware of the pockets that lie within the US.\n\nAppalachian mountain culture is a whole different set of people. One hour away from those communities and you’re somewhere else entirely. More comparable to rural Scots doing traditional herding who speak less English vs. city dwelling Londoner.\n\nSimilar things can be found in the Amish and similar communities, as well as Native American communities. \n\nSo, ultimately, please keep learning about those diverse pockets. Don’t assume the US is one way across the board, just as we shouldnt assume the same about anywhere else. Of course, the scale is different.", "Their hijabs weren't even completely covering their hair either.", "You still haven't answered the question. You must be terrified.", "Am American from San Fran California is as different from a Texan in Huston as is an Italian from an Austrian.\n\nThey might speak the same language (kind of), but that is all.\n\nTraveling around EU is not the same as traveling in another country. I have been there, done that.", "Man, why would anyone think to go get pizza in Iran? I'm dying to go there and sample all the koobideh, barg, desserts, teas... So much good food. When I go, I'm looking for all the authentic food I can find. \n\nAnd the people - “I am so confused. It … wasn’t supposed to be like this. Of all the places, of all the countries, all the years of traveling, it’s here, in Iran, that I am greeted most warmly by total strangers. The other stuff is there, the Iran we’ve read about, heard about, seen in the news. But this … this I wasn’t prepared for.” - Anthony Bourdain.", "It's like the right wing trope about \"our cities are literally burning down\" with the BLM protests and it was a tiny percentage of the events and a very few blocks where the actual rioting and/or looting took place.", "I've travelled all over the world and everywhere I went, the people were awesome. The governments, not so much, but I rarely interacted with the governments. Go travel and meet people. It really fills the soul.", "Oh god now you’re spouting ‘great replacement’ rhetoric. Please continue. \n\nI claimed that your ridiculous notion that the “country is lost” and “overrun” is bullshit, which it is. You want stats? Here’s stats.\n\nhttps://www.indexmundi.com/sweden/demographics_profile.html\n\nYou see that? 80% Swedes still, and it hasn’t changed that severely in recent times. No great replacement to be seen.\n\nGet a grip.", "\n\n\nPushing Russia back, or pulling Ukraine in?\nProtecting their own interest in SE Asia, or defending Taiwan? Bringing peace to Kuwait? Freedom to Central America? Supporting both SA and Israel in an attempt to stop all hostilities?\n\nThe US have only one goal, and it's not world peace.\n\nYou're condescending in your reply and in that way just showing your ignorance even further.", "Do you think All majority Muslim countries are the same? Yes or no. \n\nDon't deflect with \"all countries\". Don't try to pivot to \"it doesn't matter\"\n\nAnswer directly", "I knew a Persian shopkeeper who was probably about your age. Once time we were talking and he said, \"Before the revolution we prayed in private and drank in public, after the revolution they swapped.\"", "Regardless, Iranians have a special eye for style. They know how to look good.", "Haha maybe for the cbd. Wtf are you talking about", "It's exactly how I'd expect a big city in really any country to look like. Might be a surprise to some people but you can go to the majority of countries and see a modern city like this. To your comment - same with many cities in the United states. Pretty nice and modern and as you go further from the center it becomes a complete shit hole, until you get towards the suburbs.", "it's a discipline, be the change you want to see in the world. \n\n\nbut yeah coordinated disinformation and social manipulation is real. all it takes is one goon dropping some flame war into the chat and the entire conversation is derailed dunking on or misconstruing each other over slight disagreements", "For some reasons I love Iranians and Afghans. Everyone I met is chill and open", "Damn, these women aren't showing enough skin for my taste, they must be religious zealots.", "I just saw this clip of an incredible mall they have, and truthfully I can think of very few malls that are as beautiful here in America.\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTpSC-i4N74 \nI think it’s fair to be surprised at how nice it is considering the economic sanctions. While I understand thats a loaded topic, because of how the powerful can (vs should) use their money, as other posters have felt, it’s somewhat nicer and quite different than I’d have imagined - much aligned to western architectural sensibilities.", "> Am American from San Fran California is as different from a Texan in Huston as is an Italian from an Austrian.\n\nHahahahhahahahshahahahha", "Excuse my ignorance, but I thought women had to be accompanied by a male in public?", "Why wouldn't it? They're different countries", "Yeah, people glorify cities like NYC and LA. Well that's because there are a lot of really rich people there with expensive homes and buildings. Except there are parts that are comparable to 3rd world countries with extreme poverty, homeless and drug addicts spread for miles. I took a train in California and there were hundreds and hundreds of homeless people in tents lining the train tracks. But here's a picture of a $20 million house owned by a tech ceo on the beach to make you think California is glorious", "Same people that think the Taliban and ISIS are the same.", "Lolllll", "[There's a cartoon for this](https://i.huffpost.com/gen/556200/thumbs/o-MANA-NEYESTANI-POLITICAL-CARTOON-570.jpg?4)", ">which is completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like\n\nno", "Damn, I didn't think you'd have you're Nikes on, because you are running", ">no major terrorist organization threats\n\nTends to happen when you are funding the terrorists.\n\nThat's why Saudi Arabia doesn't have problems with terrorists either. Its why there were no terrorists attacks on US targets during the Gulf War when Bush senior's administration paid money to Hezbollah. Powerful countries are willing to destabilize other nearby states to gain power.", "You clearly didn’t read the page I sent because it’s purely based on country of birth. It says so right at the top.\n\nBeing born in Sweden ~does~ make you a Swedish citizen. \n\nAs for crime, I agree it’s on the rise but the reasons for it being on the rise we disagree on.\n\nAlso please link me these studies you keep toting about Swedes becoming a minority, since you’re such a statician.", "Yeah, kinda. Because I don’t see this stuff often lol why are you surprised.", "Lmaooooo you’re all about linking stats then don’t have any yourself. What a joke.\n\nSaying “That’s a facts” doesn’t make it one, even if it hurts your widdle feelings 🥺\n\nDis man don’t got numbers, just feelings and his own little bubble. Won’t even post on his main, so he uses an alt.", "We saw very different posts", "This post is ClickbaitOPsSay. \n\nIt's doesn't take a genius to point out that its bullshit.", "been to both, the streets are better there surprisingly and the buildings are hit or miss depending on area", "They dug up the street a few years back and corrected all the sewer lines that were illegally connected to the open storm water drains. Now all you smell is the fresh stale piss beer vomit and fewer sewer gasses.", "You've entertained me enough.", "Look man, if you're coming to /r/videos for answers like that, you've come to the wrong place.", "Backing up your comment, because this is true. Iranians add ketchup to pizza; similar to how Americans use ranch on pizza.", "What am to expect?! Did you mean \"What am I to expect?\"", "> didn't say it shouldn't be, just that it's funny to think about\n\nTo be fair you edited that in after I commented", "Seriously, this title is baity af lol", "Man I thought reddit was down with puns, this is a very sad day for me", "That's very common in Tehran, but in rural areas it's a lot more strict.", "What the hell you on about lmao? I simply asked for the reason with reddit's obsession about Iran and you blabber on about how it's state sponsored propaganda even though it makes no sense because most of the stuff shown displays Iran in a bad light and then you go on and accuse me of being a liar? \n\nAlso what has the left got to do with this? Get your head out of your ass and leave Reddit for a while and get some fresh air dude.", "Allies? I'm not allied with any Proud Boys, or Trump fans sorry.", "Party in the city where the heat is on...", "(Of course.)", "This is how Iraq looked just before the war, but the fucking lying msm only took shots of demolition sights or abandoned houses to give the impression it was a medieval shithole.\n\nThey should be in jail.", "Typos happen. You don't have to go around correcting everyone.", "I have none.", "I like your funny words magic man.", "One thing you can't get from this video is the smell of Tehran, the traffic smoke is like nothing else. Really thick pollution, everywhere, with seemingly zero or very minimal exhaust filtration being applied to vehicles. \n\nAmazing place though.", "This is so lovely and peaceful — I'd watch this kinda thing for most any city", "Typos happen in transient things like comments, indeed. But typos in titles are different. Those things should be perfect. You and I may indeed disagree about that. And I don't only correct typos in titles. I offer corrections of grammatical errors (errors that reflect a lack of knowledge about the language). Only about 36% of Americans can write at grade level when they graduate from high school (that number is presumably even lower, given the pandemic). In light of that, I fail to see the harm in such corrections!", "EYYYYYY AND THERE IT IS! Great replacement, obsessions with pedophiles, a lack of real stats. Bro you the dictionary definition of an ignorant right-wing lackey. \n\nYou silly pumpkin.", "Again, I do not support Roy Moore, Donald Trump, or Mitch McConnell. I don't know why you would use them as examples for degenerate behavior, but I cannot support them on principle", "Many people on this site are not American. Besides, who gives a shit if a title has a typo in it? It's not a business project. It's Reddit.", "Inaccuracies such as \"God exists\" are pretty hard to overlook. When the foundational premise is an unknowable assertion taken as a given, how can you find a spiritual connection? I don't feel connected to people who make ridiculous claims.\n\nI feel spiritually connected to the pursuit of objective truth. I don't find religion comforting at all. It feels like a violation of the public trust by a bunch of power-hungry authoritarians.", ">France and Germany are not on opposite ends of the continent.\n\nThat was the essence of my point, and essentially the comment I was agreeing with as well. This statement is underlining my point, not refuting it. That pretending 'murica is all the same is silly because it's a geographically gigantic country full of what amounts to mini-countries with vastly different populations and cultures, which in many ways can expand beyond differences that happen in some European countries.\n\n\nI wasn't claiming there are no differences in European culture, and frankly the tone you're bringing into this is unwelcome and unnecessary. I think you went way overboard on my point, which wasn't as black and white as you're making out. It was just an example of how two points in the USA can be very, very different.\n\n\nRelax.", "I bet you take in more social benefits than you pay taxes.", "Well, in other big cities, you rarely see morality police beating up women to throw them in their van, or kids diving into dumpsters to collect recyclable trash.", "Is ISIS a state sponsored terrorist cell?", "It must be tiring to be so fucking stupid.\n\nTrolling you, while I'm at work, costs me literally no effort. You make it too easy.", ">So you are being paid to defend rape in a country you have never even been to? Do you work for the DNC?\n\nI actually work as the guy who defends Hilary's and Hunter Biden's emails.\n\nI was bored, so I let some dumbass steal their laptops. Got a raise for being homosexual, and I went to HR to get 2 weeks off for gender reassignment surgery", "Pretty sure it's in the subreddit's rules.", "I support ISIS because they said they were going to kill me for being Transgender, and since being Transgender makes me suicidal, this works perfectly", "yes .. and south L.A. looks completely different than hollywood lol", "I'm waiting for a thicc chunky Proud Boy to come convert me back to being an Alpha, so we can come steal your GF.", "They are actually hiring right now, they need a \"Deep State Puppet Analyst\". You seem to be pretty well informed, should I send them your resume?", "Have you heard of sarcasm?", "Yeah it looks pretty much as what I'd imagine.", "i couldnt agree more. ive watched some documentaries about lebanon and it looks like a much nicer place to live than america", "> Many people on this site are not American. \n\nThat is correct. Quote me saying otherwise. \n\n> who gives a shit if a title has a typo in it?\n\nI already told you the answer to that, and I'm not alone.", "There are no Palestinians in this cartoon", "No kidding. It’s all fun and romantic until you see 10-ft mountains of trash on every sidewalk on trash day. Seriously folks, I’ve never seen this shit in another US city. Get your collective shit together.", "Good point - been to Portland OR lately? Now that's a real shit hole compared to Teheran.", "Portland just down the 5.", "🙄 love how reddit sjws pretend that iran isn't a religious extremist country. My Iranian neighbor is lovely, but Iran isn't.", "It's cuz a lot of drugs tbh\n\nHistorically that city has been a harbor for international drugs too come in so those selling make a LOT of money while those addicted end up homeless or worse.", "Radical leftists hate America and believe it is the source of everything bad in the world. Thus, America's enemies -- Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. -- must really be better than the image the government portrays. This belief extends somewhat to China as well, but less so to more overtly crazy countries like Russia and North Korea. (Today's leftists love the fetishize the old USSR though -- they figure any version of Communism had to be better than Crony Capitalism.)", "you should check out las vegas", "Tehran is a beautiful city filled with great people. If the opportunity comes and any of you are able to travel there, definitely do it. That entire country is extremely welcoming to foreigners, so be ready to have tons of food food offered to you!", "They do? From my entire history of experiences Bourbon street is the frat boy mecca where you go to get shitfaced drunk, pee on the street corner, and get robbed by hooked for fun.", "Seriously, the dude walked past a freaking mercedes dealership and he's out there crossing the street with bmw's rolling past him.\n\nHe's showing off the one place where the sanctions aren't affecting people that much", "There are also parts of rural counties that are terrible as well. And rural areas with amazing homes on 200+ acres. \n\nWealth disparity is all over the USA and most of the globe. It’s more visible in cities because the boundaries are closer. It’s often least visible in the suburbs. \n\nIf I had a choice to be dropped on foot in a bad part of a city or in the meth-cooking marijuana-growing (where still illegal) rural area, I’ll take my chances on the city. I can be safe in 20 blocks, instead of fed to somebody’s pigs. :)", "Radical right love America and believe it is the source of everything good in the world. Thus, America's enemies -- Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, etc -- must really be worse than the image the government portrays. This belief extends somewhat to China as well, but less so to more overtly crazy countries like Russia and North Korea. (Today's right wings' love the fetishize the good old USA though -- they figure any version of Capitalism had to be better than Crony Communism.) \n\nIt's funny how it still makes sense when you change left with right and change certain key words.", "Luckily for my side you chose two cities in the same country, Italy. So let's take a look shall we?\n\n[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-diverse-countries](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-diverse-countries)\n\nWhile the US isn't at the upper end of this scale by any means, Italy and most European nations (which I assume are the superior idiots making this claim in the first place) all rank much lower. France being an exception for diversity.\n\nThanks for playing.", "yes", "I'm not sure you know what an SJW is.", "Think about what?\n\nNearby is relative to power and means. Always has been. Nearby for a global power is global, nearby for a regional power is regional. Admiral Perry wasn't going to canoe over to Japan. And no one studies the Mongolian horde's effects on Mexico.\n\nIf you have something to say, then say it.", "You made it sound like the west coast has older architecture then the east. The west barely has any compared to the east.", "I’m not here to convert anyone. Just saying that the feeling you get from objective truth is quite simply the opposite of spirituality. \n\nObjective truth is individual. Spirituality connects you with the universe. \n\nAlso: don’t confuse religion with the organizations that run it. Every Christian priest could be a criminal and I’d still think Jesus was pretty right on about his basic teachings: the world is shit, there is no justice on earth, and even though we can never know whether heaven is real, you still have to be decent to others. \n\nDoubt is at the heart of faith, Christ’s especially. Gotta remember that Jesus’s last words on earth were, to paraphrase, “God, how come you left me here to die?”", "It's funny how if someone says something is bad and you take the opposite of it, it's good? I wouldn't call that funny usually, but whatever floats your boat.", "While living abroad, most expats I knew were British. If I've learned anything from my travels it is that Britons very much want to get the fuck out of Britain.", "LOL... okay.... so we have more types of food, architecture, spoken languages, holidays, cultures, shopping, but because they're spread out more that makes us more homogeneous. I think my conversation ends with you at this point but feel free to post a reply anyway.", "Not sure why this is being downvoted, they're earnestly trying to understand the UK and US interference with the middle east and how that relates to oil. I partially answered it here when they asked a similar question:\n\n[https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rpemld/comment/hq5ypb9/?utm\\_source=share&utm\\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rpemld/comment/hq5ypb9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)", "the amount of people even kids wearing a mask outside is just... o\\_o", "Even Iraq and certain Syrian cities don’t look that bad now (Aleppo/Raqqa obviously still in ruins though)", "That's okay, they all do it. I was recently explaining to my wife (who has been there several times!) that Paris is not as good looking as what she's seen in Emily in Paris and yes, they definitely cherry picked for best effect.\n\nThe lack of dogshit and street sellers, for a start, is pure fantasy.", "Objective truth is what connects me to the universe. I like the Jesus story. It's a great lesson in morality. I have zero feeling that he was a divine entity. I have much doubt that any of the stories we know about him are true. The feeling of connection I feel is the human struggles and happiness that people have gone through in their lives throughout history. That's relatable. The idea of an immortal soul is not a realistic or relatable idea to me. It feels false, and it makes me feel hollow when I think about how many people believe in it. It makes me feel sad for them. My spirituality is in the physical nature of the universe. When I look at the sky, at the infinite number of stars, galaxies, and planets out there, I feel the divinity of the universe. It is truly a beautiful thing. Spirituality without religion is a bigger thing to me than any idea of the supernatural.", "I love these types of videos even for places with that already have street view. There’s a channel I watch that walks around Seoul, South Korea and it’s amazing. I wish there was some type of website directory where people can upload videos like these for every city. It makes them seem more alive than street view.", "What makes you think that? Neither could contain Iran, in the same way that the US could not contain Vietnam. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was the final nail in their coffin, and Nazi Germany were not stable, they were the geopolitical equivalent of an explosion, the ebola of virus outbreaks, too deadly to endure.\n\nIn reality, if the US didn't exist, the Nazi's wouldn't exist either, North America would be largely under British and French rule and they would have crushed Germany into submission.\n\nThe world wars played out in the way that they did because western European colonial powers spread themselves too thin in their colonies. Germany and central Europe took advantage of this.", "Do you think the fact that 75% of Americans are religious and go to church every week makes us a country full of religious fundamentalists?", "Just because they are covering their heads doesn't mean they are religious zealots.\n\nThat's another bit of propaganda you have been fed and believe.", "You can easily dismiss anybody who uses the word \"sjw\" as a hateful bigoted alt right reactionary who hates half the country because they are liberals.", "TIL that OP is not aware of how modern Iran actually is/was. Same with Iraq.", "In many ways the EU is a single country. Much of it had no border controls, the same currency, many of the same laws.", "And in many ways, such as literally not being the same country, it's different countries.", "I’m not saying it’s bad for a big city, I’m just saying that from what I’ve seen Vancouver as a whole is much cleaner. That can likely be chalked up to less people/density, but I also think the alleyway design helps a lot since garbage trucks can constantly zip through without stopping traffic.", "Sjws do that yeah. Normal people hate sjws and altrights", "How is the EU not a single country? Their parts are not fully sovereign? Are you going to argue that US states are countries? Because the dual sovereignity of the EU is not at all unique", "Literally looks exactly like how I would imagine Tehran.", "Alt right hate sjws. Normal people don't hate trans people or black people or gay people, muslim people, arab people etc.\n\nNormal people are decent. They agree with SJWs on all issues.", "There are only two kinds of people I can’t stand: people who are intolerant of other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.", "Check out San Fran some time", "These opposites are everywhere. Even in a rich country like Norway that is known for the beautiful nature and old city architecture - there are parts of Oslo for example that really aren't nice to live in, are overcrowded with traffic or just plain ugly concrete jungle.", "You just think that's more interesting. But never actually travel.\n\nI grew up in Europe, and only when I left it, I realized that's the truth.", "If you point out Paris mainly is a shitty, stinking, overcrowded city with traffic congestion as one of its main features, you get downvoted by angry Parisiens and tourists that want to keep up the illusion alike.\n\nYes there are some beautiful highlights and great places to visit - but they hardly represent the city as a whole. \n \nEspecially the Japanese as susceptible to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome where the disillusion has disastrous consequences.", "> How is the EU not a single country? \n\nBy being made up of other countries which have individual leaders and heads of state which supercede the EU. Americans pledge allegiance to the USA, Europeans do it to their individual country.", "holy shit", "What is a divine entity other than a person who grasps the beauty and immense complexity of the universe and conveys it to you with the same astounding clarity, as say, standing at the edge of the ocean and feeling the vast sublimity of the universe? I'd say he's divine all right, I don't care whether his Y chromosome comes from Jehovah.\n\nHonestly, I think you and I are quite similar in our understanding of the world. I also don't believe in the immortality (or existence) of the soul. But I find that my insistence on that particular definition of soul (a kind of transparent version of myself, maybe with cute cartoon wings, but who is definitely me, and has a place to go when I die) is what kept me for years from recognizing really valuable truths in the Christian worldview, things that had everything to do with living on earth, and surprisingly little to do with an afterlife.\n\nThe supernatural, really, is what you make of it. \n\nI have a kid, and we took a trip to Europe once, and in Europe, one of the nice things to do (I think) is look at church art and architecture. Our kid, not being raised in any faith, had a lot of questions, like \"what is god?\" And the best I way I found to explain to her is that many many years ago, when humans had few tools to help them understand the nature of the world, they ascribed all phenomena of things to God. Why did the sun rise? Why did the crops fail? Why does water behave this way or that way? Why did so and so live? Why did they die? And, as time went on, we found more and more answers, and the space of God kept getting smaller and smaller, but that we still live with things we can't answer, like, how did the universe come into being? What existed before time itself? Or, my favorite: how come love is so powerful? We can zoom in on the picture, get down to genetic evolutionary science, but after a certain point, if we keep asking questions, there is a space we can't find answers. We may not even be capable of formulating the questions. In those spaces, \"God only knows.\"\n\nTo me, that's the supernatural: the things beyond our understanding of the order of the universe. And that is a space that will never vanish, no matter how advanced we get in science. Things from the transcendent (like love) to the mundane, like: why are the sun and the moon the same size in our sky? Considering how different they are in size, that's a zany coincidence, isn't it? How come that happened? \"God only knows.\"\n\nSo OK, like you, I like me a good landscape, a good moment of sublime nature, at times I may feel a deep connection with the magical chaos of the universe, but what if I despair? What if my \"soul\" aches? Who am I? What is my fate in this world? What is the meaning of my existence? When will the suffering end? I can't find the answers to those questions, they're not questions \"of this world\". And sometimes, as humans are wont to do, we need answers. And so, God becomes a device.\n\nThe question is whether you can hold on to the magical quality of this miraculous human invention, of putting our fates in the hands of the unknowable. It's as beautiful as any sunset.", "yes.", "Almost all large Asian cities will be denser and larger than NYC", "You're explaining it like everything's a shithole but some rich people live there so it appears to balance out to an observer.\n\nBut remember that California has 40 million people living there. More people live there than in any other state in the US. So clearly, it's a good fit for a hell of a lot of people.", "You don't know that, you just say that to feel \"superior\".\n\nMore power to you!", "I'm not doubting Vancouver is a clean city, other than a few neighbourhoods, but I just don't know what you're talking about in regards to Toronto. It's a very clean city...the dirtiest parts of Toronto are on the TTC.\n\nTraffic flow doesn't stop garbage trucks from picking up garbage...your point about alleys doesn't make much sense to me. \n\nAs a Torontonian one gets used to people talking unnecessary shit about this city. Usually it doesn't make sense...in fact, just this morning (coincidentally) I was with a few friends and we each told a story about being elsewhere in Canada and people becoming aware you're from Toronto and suddenly treating you differently, or feeling free to talk shit about Toronto (without a frame of reference because they've actually never been). It gets old.", "It’s funny bc the OP said he is from Iran", "I don't think he does this because there's no Google Earth there. You can find videos like this for places all over the world. They're great, tourism from your sofa.", "Yeah, a scuffle in the stands and “X fans are animals”. Meanwhile European soccer teams are getting effected from tournaments because fans are throwing flares onto the field and having gang wars in the parking.", "It's also the nation's capital city. This is where the government is going to do their best to show off, and it may not be reflective of the standard of life in the rest of the country.", "Well, not always. If you were a scholar in the 9th century, there were few places on earth that rivaled Baghdad.", "Same with Iran and Lebanon, which is my point. There are parts with plenty of rich people and parts that are total shitholes, neglected and full of poverty", "https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland", "It is exactly what I was expecting, you ignorant fuck.", "Prior to 1951 it was a great place.", "Per capita that's still absurdly low compared to Europe", "I dont think des panameens would mind. I still love going there for a few days at times. Just use your common sense to avoid suspicious or dangerous looking areas. The touristic areas are still nice to visit. Oh and dont go there whenever they have strikes planned. Make sure the metros are working.", "Seems like you have zero clue on the scale of things happening in Iran. Portland protests were ongoing for several months, 1 person died and around 1000 were arrested and nobody mysteriously disappeared. The kind of kidnapping you mentioned was pretty much unprecedented and everyone was shocked by it. What I mentioned happens on a day-to-day basis, in a peaceful situation, when people are just going their own way.\n\nDo you know what happened during a [similar protest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_protests) in Iran?", "[2019–2020 Iranian protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–2020_Iranian_protests) \n \n >The 2019–2020 Iranian protests also known as the Bloody November (Persian: آبان خونین), were a series of nationwide civil protests in Iran, initially caused by a 50%–200% increase in fuel prices, leading to calls for the overthrow of the government in Iran and Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. The protests commenced as peaceful gatherings on the evening of 15 November but spread to 21 cities within hours, as videos of the protest circulated online, eventually becoming the most violent and severe anti-government unrest since the rise of Iran's Islamic Republic in 1979.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "what no bro st charles lmao or lower harder(garden but great typo) district or the whole streetcar line up to tulane...\n\nno one walks bourbon and even tourists know that lol.\n\nbut also there’s a billion nights me and my girl decided to just go walk the french quarter random nights when busy just for fun.", "So if I consider two possible explanations as to why filmmakers might portray \"foreign = bad\" (or more specifically in this case, desolate wrecks):\n\n1. They want to easily generate an emotional response in the audience to keep them engaged\n\n2. They are conspiring with the government to subtly generate propaganda for a long-term military plot\n\nI'm going to choose #1 as the simpler explanation", "Like a river round a rock. Took me a week to get used to it. You can literally walk across a road with your eyes closed and you’ll be fine. Probably.", "I'm pretty sure OP meant there's no Google Streetview.", "Seems like you're trying to steer this discussion into an entirely different direction from the original topic. For one, those protests absolutely do not represent daily life in iran, nor do the portland ones I linked represent daily life in Portland. They represent what measures the respective governments are willing to take to quell protests/rebellion. To bring us back to the original topic; it should be no surprise that a major city in a relatively developed country looks modern.", "Go 2 blocks off the strip or too far up freemont and your in Fallout New Vegas", "And as always, out comes the whataboutism in a pointless attempt to strawman away from the point.\n\nI'm not speaking about Domestic violence in the USA, or even in Egypt. \n\nThe point (again) is that there was once a time when civil society in Egypt openly mocked the idea of forcing the Hijab on women. \"Let him wear it\" someone yells out from the crowd in regard to the MB representative's demand. All present laugh.\n\nNow, that same society demands that women wear the covering, and if they don't, those women can expect to be beaten, even killed. It demonstrates the enormous regression in liberal views in the country, driven by Islamic fundamentalism.\n\nThere is a reason that there isn't a single Democratic Islamic nation in the middle east. Can you guess why that is?", "Why does this guy not have a 360 camera?", "You brought up Portland protests in reply to my mention of Morality police, which is active in normal days, not during protests. It IS an ugly part of daily life in Tehran, and you get to see them frequently if you live there. This doesn't exist in other countries.", "Lol I used to live off I-90", "I've played Battlefield 3 of course I know what Iran looks like.", "The fact there is no Google earth in Iran means Iran is EXACTLY as I expected it.", "No what’s that\n\nAlso,\n\n> Chicago is very clean coincidentally\n\nWas definitely not sarcasm.", "Of course you'll have a bad impression of New York if you only focus on the pimps and C.H.U.D.s", "Not sure why you got downvoted. Asian places are routinely depicted with the stereotypical music and images.", "Okay, but it was completely irrelevant to bring up morality police when I was talking about the modern appearance of major cities and the poor appearance of poor areas. Also, I'd like to know where you get your information because I can assure you the average Iranian citizen doesn't have or see any run ins with the morality police any more than we do with crime and our police in the u.s.", "If nothing changed in the EU's political structure but people started thinking of it as a federation rather than an economic bloc, then the statement of it being a country would be obvious. The EU meets any reasonable definition of a country and the only reason people don't consider it so is because it would be controversial.", "Brexit highlighted how much of a country the EU is. When the UK left the EU, it took multiple years to sort out all the entanglements. The UK retained many EU laws because removing them would leave huge gaps in their laws. This was not the break down of a trade agreement, but the removal of one member from a federation.", "kinda ironic but definitely getting some major DC vibes", "The only surprise to me was the amount of signs in English. I know it's the de-facto language of commerce, but now I'm curious as to how widely it is taught in a society that supposedly eschews western values.", "I bet a greater percentage of Americans go to Church and Iranians go to Mosque.", "This titles is suspect, they’ve had photos of tehran for awhile🤨📸", "Did you think it was all sand huts or something?", "God, yes. \"[CITY] IS A WAR ZONE!\" and it's like... two city blocks even affected.", "Are stoplights just a suggestion there? Seemed like everyone of them were blinking and people were just driving through no matter what.", "You’re thinking of Saudi Arabia probably. In Iran, there are some crazy things but it’s not as strict. At least not in the big cities.", "Yes, a couple months ago. Downtown Portland is so deserted that even the homeless people have left, so it's actually cleaned up a bit. But yeah, downtown is pretty awful lately. The neighborhoods are still great though.", "I lived in Toronto for 10 years up until 2020, mainly right down town. I’m not some outsider trying to disrespect people from the 6 if that’s what you think. Anyways here’s a few differences:\n\nIn Vancouver the garbage bins are mainly in back alleys, and the garbage trucks pick them up from there multiple times a week without really being noticed. In Toronto the garbage all gets pulled out to the curb so 1 or two days a week there’s smelly bins on the sidewalks. \n\nI’ve also noticed there’s never dog shit on sidewalks in Van because of all the grass in each neighborhood. The lack of green spaces in Toronto is brutal, and just leads to dogs having no place to go but the sidewalks.\n\nOnly other thing I’ve found to be different is in TO there’s always broken bottles and spilt fast food on the ground during the weekend. King west especially. Van doesn’t have much of a bar scene so that probably helps keeping the litter to a minimum.", "Lol\n\nI lived there. There are much more wealthier neighbourhoods in Tehran.\n\nAnd you see professionals (dentists, engineers) mainly love there.", "Go 10 metres below the strip and you're in Metro: Last Light.", "Toronto has that old city patina that makes it a bit dirty but I'll take that over stepping over heroin needles everywhere like in Vancouver.", "> As a Torontonian one gets used to people talking unnecessary shit about this city.\n\nAKA the rest of Canada's past time. \n\nI've met people who have never been to Toronto who have strangely strong opinions about how shitty the city is.", "And Princess Jasmines. \n\nWait who am I kidding Iranian women are gorgeous.", "Have you seen the Alps or the Mediterranean? The US is beautiful but so is Europe. It's really hard to compare the two.", "Watch it at 2x speed though.", "Gotta sort by controversial for those nuggets.", "I love how all the buildings are unique looking, not like the USA they are all build pretty much the same looking.", "People are expecting the backwardness that the US has propagandized for decades", "driving with your mask on?", "Strangely formulated title in that case.", "That YouTuber should be in contact with Google if he wants to include Iran in Google street View.\n\nThis man in Zimbabwe walks around and captures street view footage with a backpack on his back \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H1tjwJV09E", "Broken bottles and split fast food on the ground? What in the name of God are you talking about? Seriously...it's like you have an image of club land around King and Duncan at 2AM as your defining image of Toronto. \n\n\nToronto has plenty of green spaces. Again, if your definition of Toronto is about a 1km radius in the heart of downtown, then maybe it doesn't.", "Definitely not an issue everywhere in Van, but hey, you do you.", "Yeah, Portland, OR gets cited a lot and it had a couple of blocks or so burned & looted (no excuse of course) which means you're talking about a fraction of a square mile in a city that's 145 square miles. \n\nSure guy, the whole city is a smoldering wasteland. /s", "I’m mainly talking about the roughly 5km radius that makes up the downtown core of the city. Dufferin to Parliament, and the Lake Shore up to Bloor. When I made the comment about garbage from clubbers I specifically mentioned KW, but there’s plenty of bar hopping areas around the downtown that get pretty bad. Obviously this isn’t an issue up in Rosedale. \n\nAnd yes there are a few parks here and there and some of them are pretty nice, but 1) for the density of the city I don’t think there’s enough and 2) grass is a rare commodity outside the parks leading do dog shit/piss everywhere. I lived right between 3 solid parks at Bathurst and Lake Shore, yet because there was very few patches of grass outside the parks the sidewalks were nasty. The few small patches of grass were basically just a muddy mess due to over use. \n\nI think people are confused about my assertions because Toronto is such a big place and many people live outside the core. I’ve only ever lived within an hour’s walk to the financial district, and while I’ve biked through & visited friends some other areas (especially on the east end) I can’t speak to what they’re like all the time. Similarly with Van I’m mainly speaking to everything within a roughly 5km radius of the West end.", "Haha, yes, for a country under sanction, I noticed that there are surprisingly lots of Peugeot around but apparently pre-2012 sanctions, Iran is Peugeot second-largest market.", "I'm just surprised it feels like Toronto or parts of DC.", "Such a wonderfully peaceful terrorists country.", "What a beautiful city. Not exactly what I had imagined in my mind's eye based on dogma and insufficient access to media of this type. I really hope access to videos like this will help de-fang government propaganda across the globe and re-humanize all societies moving forward.\n\nedit: for clarity", "Looks a lot like Santa Monica / Westwood", "You reminded me of that time when Trump called Haiti a \"shit hole\". And the media went after him for it, and Conan O'Brien took a staged photo in the 0.01% part of Haiti that is nice for tourist. https://decider.com/2018/01/27/why-conan-without-borders-haiti-could-be-extra-special/\n\n\nInstead of painting a lie about Haiti, they should help Haiti be less of a \"shit hole\". And yes, some parts of the US are indeed \"shit holes\".", "We domestically produce them, and they are the \"asshole driver\"s favorite car. I think they make you sign a contract at the factory to always drive like a cunt when you drive a Peugeot." ]	821	videos	There's no Google Earth in Iran so this guy's YouTube channel is just him walking around different streets of Tehran which is completely different than what you'd imagine Iran would look like
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rpf14s/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rpf14s/deleted_by_user/	[ "Hilarious that the last time you posted this video pretending to not be the creator everyone called you out for being a douchey out of touch white guy who engages in poverty tourism. I suspect this attempt will go over similarly. The last thing the world needs is the perspective of another privileged asshole. Slightly homeless my ass. Spoiled white guy goes on a vacation and has a nice warm bed to go back to at mommy’s house. Fuck outta here.\n\nEdit: wow, you’re truly disgusting. \n\n> It's just that the grannies are super cheap.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/q2vlwt/koreas_underground_granny_prostitution_ring_2021/hfny022/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3", "Sounds like a riff off that guy Vagrant Holiday on YT.", "nice trolling!", "Looking at your previous comment history and deleted posts, you are full of shit. Why not just be honest?", "He’s awesome lol", "Dude is not slightly homeless. He's just tryin to use these grannys etc for views. He?most likely lives in Korea and prob has done for a while as he knows about these and can also speak a good bit of Korean. It's - 10c here now. This young white dude isn't gonna wanna be slightly homeless here. (I know the video is a reupload) \nAlso there's no slightly homeless.\nYou are or you aren't." ]	5	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/N1TzD6UNtFQ	/r/videos/comments/rpf2fs/who_knows_yoko/	[ "Paul McCartney had 51 years to forget about this awkwardness. And then this doco came out.", "Every time I hear about Yoko Ono I think about that Bill Burr bit when he talks about Chuck Berry being on stage with her and Lennon \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4K07Kz7M8Q\n\nPaul McCartney's awkwardness seems to fit in line with how everyone was feeling about her back then.", "Every time I see someone bringing up Bill Burr ranting about Yoko Ono, it feels kinda telling that all the focus is put on her when there's a fucking monster on-stage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Berry#Physical_and_sexual_abuse_allegations", "...how is that \"telling\"? Bill's talking about the musical performance.", "She was a God awful", "She was a prat, but John Lennon was a giant piece of shit. The dude hit his partner and pretty much abandoned his kid. Then when Paul wrote Hey Jude to try and help Julian, John was so full of himself that he thought the song was for him.", "Is the word allegations invisible to you or are you just omniscient and know its true somehow?", "I'll never think of anything but the video of him farting on a hooker while she's blowing him", "[Man Always Gets Little Rush Out Of Telling People John Lennon Beat Wife](https://www.theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998)", "Haha this is amazing. there should be memes for this.", "What does she ask?", "2021; the public hear about allegations and get offended enough for the ALLEGED victim that they make it their prerogative to “let everyone know”. So they’re the good guys fighting for “justice” and find it appropriate to tell everyone the “facts”, bully, and speak over anyone that hasn’t also taken a vendetta against the “abuser”; Gatekeeping 101.\n\nThe headlines and accusations aren’t fact, sheep.", "\"Is it going to be the day then?\"\n\nIt's subtitled for you and everything.", "Yoko Ono is an insufferable twat", "“Is that going to be the day then?”\n\nThey’re talking about which day they’ll be doing their live performance, if I’m not mistaken.\n\nHe answers awkwardly because it’s made apparent through this documentary (and plenty of other media/accounts over the years) that she wasn’t wanted on their sound stage by anyone besides Lennon, and she was generally an annoyance to everyone else in attendance.", "I don't know much about Yoko Ono but I do know nobody would be talking about this performance in 2021 if it wasn't for her \"contribution\". I get that Chuck Berry was a rock and roll inventor but it's pretty dull by modern standards.", "A lot of the focus on Yoko Ono is arguably bigotry.", "Did you not read it?\n\n\"He pleaded guilty\", \"Berry opted for a class action settlement.\"\n\nAnd, vitally, \"59 women\". When you have allegations from that number of people, you can assume there's something very fucking wrong happening.", "Did you actually read the damned article? He pleaded guilty and engaged in class action settlements. And we are talking about 59 fucking women here. You can assume that there's something very fucking wrong happening when you have that many people coming forward.", ">arguably \n\nVery much so.", "And also because they weren't really sure themselves if it would happen. And of all people, she is the one he's least interested in talking about his schedule with", "Ok.", "Whenever I hear Happy Xmas (War Is Over), I think of the yearly royalty check she gets for co-writing that song.\n\nThen I think about how big the yearly royalty check is for Woman Is The N***** Of The World.\nShe wrote that song and then made Lennon play it. What were they thinking?", "Sorry, I see the confusion; I wasn’t referring to Chuck’s specific case, if I had been I would have replied to you instead, but no I didn’t read the article, didn’t imply I had, didn’t reference him at all, and couldn’t care less about Chuck Berry. I replied to the other user because the general sentiment of their comment spoke heavily to me. \n\nIf whatever you’re sharing about Chuck is true, all power to you? My only argument there is people can still enjoy his music if it happens to be the type they like and go about their life’s not having to hear about his personal bullshit. Haven’t you heard “separate the art from the artist”? The dude’s dead and gone, no one needs saving, they’re just trying to enjoy a talented musician and some good tunes, fuck about his personal life.\n\nNow to the actual video at hand, I do actually believe John is a perfect example of what I’m talking about, though let me clarify, I don’t think I’m some omnipotent main character that knows all, it’s just my personal take away. Sure, he did shitty things, he was also one of the biggest celebrities to ever exist at the time and still is, the majority of the people you know would have scathing articles about who they’ve hurt and offended too if they had every aspect of their life publicized, and the bigger they are the more they’re scrutinized. Sure he did wrong things, but Yoko took it upon herself to drag his name through the dirt and butt-scoot all over the legend since his death just so she could finally escape her curse of mediocrity and make things about herself instead. And too many of the sheep public worship it as scripture and condemn everything John Lennon because of it, then gatekeep and preach to anyone that hasn’t aligned with that yet. Easy to do when he’s dead and can’t say one word to his side of things. Now, no matter who you are, we can most all agree Paul is an incredibly kind soul and he’s also spoken many times to the loon that is Yoko, so I’m going to go ahead and listen to him. Fuck that succubus.\n\n\nBut again, my original comment was speaking to the problem as a whole, no one specific individual’s case. I see the online mob of sheep that I’m referring to as a huge problem and unfortunately our society have given them enough power to ‘cancel’ or really ruin anyone they go afters life because they all see it as “guilty until proven innocent.”", "So you think the focus on Yoko is because of blind hatred for her ethnicity/sex/something, rather than that ungodly caterwauling she screeches out during a performance by a pair of legendary musicians. Even though that's specifically what Bill Burr is pointing out.\n\nSounds like you just have an agenda.", "Not the one you were arguing with, but that was very well put and you make a good point. \n\nWell done, QualityTits.", "I watched the documentary and didn't get that impression at all. She just chilled there while they did their thing and no one really paid her any mind.", "Bait please ignore.", ">I wasn’t referring to Chuck’s specific case\n\nFair enough so.\n\n>If whatever you’re sharing about Chuck is true, all power to you?\n\nThe point I'm making isn't so much about Chuck Berry. It is about the bias people have against Yoko Ono. It always seems telling (or at least strange) for people to focus on that stage and to ignore a monstrous rapey fuck like Chuck Berry and instead to focus on Yoko's silly wailing thing.\n\n>my original comment was speaking to the problem as a whole, no one specific individual’s case.\n\nI'd be broadly in agreement with you in that abstract sense of assuming innocence until proven otherwise. However, sometimes people go too far with that and talk about individual cases of allegations against someone when it is often more significant if you see the sheer number of allegations against someone. Berry, as I mentioned, plead guilty to many things there as I said, but in his case the allegations were from 59 people and it's pretty safe to assume from a number like that that he was doing something wrong. Like you have to keep in mind that \"proof\" is the wrong word. All we ever have is evidence and degrees of uncertainty.\n\n>“separate the art from the artist”\n\nAnd just on this point, it always seems weird to me to try to rationalise someone out of their emotions. Like, there are creations that I've liked that now remind me of rape or whatever and I'm just not gonna enjoy those things because of that association. I don't think one should try to argue someone out of their emotional responses as it's not like we have much control over them.", "Did you catch that section when John wasn’t there and they were all giving their impression of her?", "Lol, u go around the internet calling old dead people pieces of shit... what an existence.", "Sure.", "a good section of the doc is about her presence being a problem?? did you jusr skip it", "It's almost as if you attract your own mental healthiness level of people.", "Muh patriarchy!", "What", "Ahh yes because this 10 second clip is just chock full of context.", "She's terrible. Who walks into a studio and says shit like that?", "https://old.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/5ln9nn/chuck_berry_lets_it_rip_into_a_hookers_mouth/\n\nNSFW, I had to look this up haha" ]	40	videos	Who knows, Yoko?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcJ-0bAHB4	/r/videos/comments/rpfka1/offensive_cars_run_out_of_alabama/	[ "Did these guys ever see Easy Rider?", "I LOVED this episode!!!", "Ok so you go to some place, you make a display of yourself by making a bunch of malicious statements based on your own negative stereotypes, and then play the victim if anyone says something?\n\nThis is stupid. If I went to England and said a bunch of mean shit about their Queen and recorded it, I could edit it down to look like they're all reactionary hooligans or Chav trash too.", "I get what your saying, but just so you know the South is not a safe place for a lot of kinds of people. I wouldn't be so quick to defend the things that go on down here.", "I grew up left leaning in Alberta which gets called the Texas of the North unfortunately. It's not as right wing as people think but media amplifies a lot of negative stereotypes about the people that live here.\n\nI grew up on American tv and movies since the 70s and by the time I was in high school, I was terrified of people from the south because of the way Hollywood and the entertainment industry tends to portray them. We get lots of Americans moving up here and a couple new kids were from Alabama and they were really nice. They weren't racist, hyper religious assholes, they were just nice kids. It broke a lot of the ignorant perceptions I had against them and since then i've met a lot of Americans from all over that are really decent.\n\nI'll probably get downvoted for this but left leaning Americans are really mean to people in the southern states and media encourages it by using negative stereotypes to justify it.\n\nA couple well known examples is the Ned Beatty scene from Deliverance, and the church scene from Kingsman.", "As a dude that's lived in Mississippi for a decade, I agree, the country is pretty harsh towards us, but I assure you its well deserved. Enough dumb shit happens down here that I don't think \"but their so nice\" washes it away.", "The Original top gear was the best show on television", "I've traveled to a few places in the US, the south is a 60/40. Either you meet some good people, or you meet some shit people. But that's pretty true of everywhere in the US. Just some places they can be more openly aggressive than others. The whole country is a mixed bag of different cultures, and beliefs. Once you've travelled to enough places, you learn to realize that the US is really a collection of micronations somehow united under a common banner, and language, with an overarching general culture. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nBut it can get fuckin' weird." ]	8	videos	Offensive cars run out of Alabama!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbEMYaXVEjw&t=120s	/r/videos/comments/rpfnbn/louis_ck_on_good_will_hunting/	[ "I don’t know he had a new social. Thanks for sharing!! He’s one of the best.", "So good, one of my favorite comedians for sure!", "Louis CK is great. Havent heard of him a long time", "jessanthapus", "Good will hunting jokes, huh? Real cutting edge stuff.", "Taking ‘playing it safe’ to a new level", "I saw the special. Most of the special is his usual style, this just happens to be one of the few clean jokes in the act. Probably because this is an ad and talking about pedophiles in an ad isn't exactly going to get you good press.", "yeah very strange", "Oh interesting thanks…I laughed at the bit regardless…", "I'm an ad? Well shit, thanks for letting me know.\n\nI just liked the bit and I think it marginally ruined Good Will Hunting for me." ]	10	videos	Louis CK on Good Will Hunting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrDtAk79uc	/r/videos/comments/rpg63a/la_traffic_1930s/	[ "Lots of foot traffic back in the day!", "Before the streetcar was killed.", "As resident of downtown LA this is awesome, most of the buildings are still around and I see them on my afternoon walks!", "The conspiracy is private car companies bought them from the government and destroyed them so people would buy expensive personal vehicles instead.", "Imagine living in that time, without cellphones. People were more pure and real", "Despite that, so much congestion. Adding more lanes surely solved that problem! Just one more lane!", "Yeah a lot of the US has been made unwalkable. It is shockingly bad. As a European travelling across the contrast with European cities and towns where you can walk everywhere is vast.", "As someone who lives in America, it's nice when you find small towns (usually tourist) that are perfectly set up to handle foot traffic. Cape May is a good example, you can grab a hotel, park your car and never use it again. Sure, you'll have to walk 20 minutes for some places, but that's nothing.\n\nAll in all, the sad part is that the US could have been set up to handle foot traffic. Would look a lot different today, and I'm sure things like population density, layout of residential/commercial and such would be different. Just a shame, as it's so nice being able to walk everywhere with little trouble.", "I’m 29 and I remember before cell phones lol. Why do you think they’re more pure and real? Definitely a different time back then.", "I assure you it was really quite the same. \n\nLike instead of people staring at a phone reading about stupid shit all day… they would read the entire daily newspaper, cover to cover, and be reading about whatever stupid shit the media was writing about that day. \n\nThey didn’t live in the moment any more than we do now.", "Social media makes people fake", "I don’t agree. Look at our social media? It’s all manipulated from both sides.", "I see that but honestly if anything people constantly put on a show 100 years ago. you have to constantly keep up appearances with people. I would guess that “being yourself” is much more common nowadays. Not to mention the strides in social/political policies we’ve made since then.", "Manipulated just the same back then by whatever side your local newspaper was published by. Still same shit different time.", "Fair enough", "Who the fuck do you think wrote newspapers - some set of completely impartial journalists?! 🤣", "I was more pointing at ourselves. Look for example at insta, Snapchat and Facebook. How badly we want to show to the world how perfect our lives are, not to mention all the fake filters." ]	17	videos	LA traffic 1930's
https://youtu.be/CVks07UgVQQ	/r/videos/comments/rph4td/the_fascinating_world_of_outsider_music/	[ "I saw this video a few years ago\n\n….and man, I kind of get why so much of this music isn’t published.", "I consider my album outsider music as I was teaching myself how to sequence and produce music and music theory as I wrote it. Aside from a semester of band when I was 11 playing trumpet, I've had no musical education or lessons.\n\n[Here's a link if anyone is interested in listening.](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMiQ9PoakLC3BghhdIVEzJ4lW5dJHHsv6)", "Seven is pretty sick. Gives my kind of creepy Genesis vibes.", "Is this video a repost from a different channel? because this video was published january of this year.", "It could have been about a year ago. \n\nI’m a little stoned tonight after a busy and hard Christmas :)", "sounds pretentious lol. just because its original doesn't mean it has value/ is good. This is the equivalent of passing most of modern performance art as \"good\" when its just random bullshit.\n\nWant real outsider music? Give a kid a flute or some drums. Most of us who has had the pleasure of listening to a kid with a musical instrument wont laud whatever they create as \"outsider music.\" Most people would categorize this as ear grating noise", "This video is incredibly accurate. I did turn it off when I head the first 'song'.", "The whole point of considering outsider art is the fact that \"Good\" is very much defined by convention and the culture of art. You're literally proving that right now because you think there is some particular meaning of \"good\" you can appeal to, to say that this isn't. \n\nConversely often \"insider\" art is considered \"good\" because it obeys convention to some degree, whether technically or otherwise. And even where it's praised for breaking convention, its specialness is still ultimately derived from its relation to convention. I am not just talking about art hanging in museums or performed on stages, this even applies to anything you may see or hear online on someone's YouTube channel or IG, or in the sketchbook of a talented friend, or even your own doodles or little songs you record on your phone: you might judge your art to be a sort of failure because it doesn't abide by some convention you are committed to.\n\nBy contrast what people respect about much of \"outsider art\" is that the artist is simply doing something. There's not a lot of attention paid to the existence of the conventions and culture of art. They are just making something. You can see their soul in their work much more clearly because a lot of that conceptual noise is not present, which usually serves as a kind of \"filter\" that washes out the details that those \"imperfect\" deviations from conventions reveal. \n\nNow none of this is meant to say outsider art is good or \"insider\" art is bad. It's just that viewing outsider art on this basis is kind of missing the point entirely. It is like saying Koyaanisqatsi is boring... Well yeah I can totally understand why you'd say that but it's also absolutely missing the point: you will never ever understand why someone can sit there and watch 86 minutes of timelapse of clouds and cities and shit if you think of films as existing only in the dimension of \"fun vs boring\".", "i mean yeah, you could say how \"special\" or \"unconventional\" something is but at the end of the day its nothing more than random noise. \n\nIf i was a chef and someone told me that dog shit was \"outsider cuisine\" because of how it doesn't obey convention you'd be looked at funny. By naming it such, you are trying to elevate it to something much more. Regardless of definition or not. \n\nEven the act of categorizing things as outsider music is a discrepancy in of itself as it explicitly links itself to the conventional. Suddenly the unconventional now has rules on its own and that is to be as unconventional as possible.\n\nJust because you renamed trash into something more acceptable doesn't make it any more meaningful", "the point is not about \"noise\", it is about creativity. letting the kid be a kid and do whatever nonsensical \"noise\" he wants to do without having any concept of how things work. spontaneity and creativity get beaten out of us by the time school is done.", "it can be both creative and a noise at the same time. There are plenty of avenues in being creative without making a disturbance and making your ears bleed.\n\nagain just because you labeled trash as something fancy doesnt mean you should tolerate it", "pretty sure you are missing the point of \"noise\". music is noise, we all just hear it and interpret it in different ways. the point of the video is about exposing raw unaltered \"noise\" that has taken shape of its own by people that express themselves differently. just because you call it noise, to them, it might not be regardless of how you feel about it.", "i mean yeah, if i was a chef and someone told me that dog shit is \"outsider cuisine\" then i guess go for it lol. But you wont find me calling it food.\n\nand besides, there are plenty of ways of being creative without creating a disturbance in their surroundings. Just because it isnt noise for children doesnt mean the people in the room aren't affected by it", "gj, you finally got to the point of the video in your own weird and unique way.\n\nEdit: so close, you were 1 edit away from greatness.", "eh, thats not really an argument", "there is no argument to be had if you are not refuse to see that everyone expresses their creativity in different ways regardless of what you want to label it.\n\nIt is art. we all have a different understanding of the world due to our accumulated experiences and perceptions and we express using the same mechanism.\n\njust like some people like mumble rap, pavaroti or skrillex, it doesn't make any of those artists and their genre worse than the other. it fires neurones of different people in different ways.", "VERY cool video! thanks", "never said you can't have your own taste in music. But there will always be things that are agreeably not music or art\n\nthe same way you dont call dog shit as \"outsider cuisine\"\n\nthe same way you don't call torture recordings as \"outsider music\"\n\nthe same way you don't call war crimes as \"outsider art\"\n\nyou cant just elevate something and slap an outsider adjective to it and expect people to recognize its validity", "\"I don't like this, therefore it's bad\" Summed up your argument for you.", "\"Pickup any album and play a random song and it will sound like something you've heard before, outsider music is original though\"\n\nLmao. When he played the outsider music, it sounded like stuff I've heard before though. It was a discordant arrhythmic cacophony that failed to express and failed to lead, and it sounded hella like something I've heard before. People can make original things more easily by having more skill with expression. More skill doesn't mean less expression. You need skill in order to lead the listener's emotions in order to express yourself, if you don't manipulate emotion you aren't producing music.\n\nI've heard that a thousand times before. Every middle school band that picks up their instruments for the first time sounds the same.", "never said that", "you entirely missed the whole point of the video, by a country mile and a half.\n\nshit is not outsider cuisine in most (if not all) of the countries, because we humans evolved to actively avoid it. cant compare substance to something that actively makes you sick and kills you.\n\ntorture recordings are not \"outsider music\" because they are DESIGNED actively with the purpose of harming and annoyance. \n\nThe whole point of \"outsider\" is to just let it be, let it all out regardless of what everyone thinks or wants, be you and who connects with it, connects.\n\nWar crimes.........you really don't get it. read some history, we evolved making \"killing\" a form of art at many points in time. from cave paintings to face paints and statues/temples and public executions. We just got better at it. \n\nis not about the \"outsider\" adjective, name whatever you want, it is about the expression itself. might as well be called non-mainstream, unfiltered, radioactive, deranged, call it shit for the sake of your understanding. \n\nat no point in the video, it is elevated as a superior form of \"noise\", it simply showcases how this \"noise\" can be (clearly) misunderstood by nature of being highly \"outside the norm\" and how some people do find a connection to it, from regular folk to other highly creative people.", "Well… there’s people out there who get off from human feces. So everything is worth something to SOMEONE. \n\nYou don’t have to like all art. In fact, it’s awesome that you don’t. You can choose what you like - but what even more awesome, is that you can’t tell someone else what to like.\n\nPeople are in to niche things. Exploration of very specific sounds, tastes, or imagery is really fun and satisfying, and worthwhile! The deeper you go, the more open you are to bizarre stuff, and you connect to some weird out there part of someone’s creativity.\n\nThe pretentiousness comes out when someone grabs the niche stuff and tries to commercialize or bank off its ‘cool factor’. And I guess this is where your point comes in - people try to bring it up as high art, and put this obscure message behind it, while having no real connection to it.\n\nIt’s just people experimenting by themselves then things get out of their control after it’s released.", "> shit is not outsider cuisine in most (if not all) of the countries, because we humans evolved to actively avoid it. cant compare substance to something that actively makes you sick and kills you.\n\nyoud be surprised at the ammount of scat flicks online\n\n> torture recordings are not \"outsider music\" because they are DESIGNED actively with the purpose of harming and annoyance. \n\nyeah, the whole guro community will disagree with you\n\nsee how easy it is to disprove this outsider nonsense? even you dont agree with your own definition. What happened to we interpret it in different ways? \n\nSuddenly we are evolved to actively avoid certain things? huh? Isn't this exactly saying that certain things cant be art or music?", "Yet it's the only argument you make. You compare it to literal dog shit, or trash. The only reason you have provided is because it's \"random bullshit\". \n\nJust because you don't like something, or even understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Art is not exclusive. Anyone can make art. None of these people are forcing their art on you, yet you felt the need to tell other's that their art is nothing but \"random bullshit\".", " > youd ve surprised at the ammount of scat flicks online\n\ncuisine is not the same as fetish, get it right. \n\n> yeah, the whole guro community will disagree with you\n\nsure, I also call static noise music. I don't see a problem.", "You mean having a lack of singing talent, rhythm, lyrics, or anything that people want out of music isn't well received or liked? I'm just absolutely shocked.", "so are you saying that dog shit is \"outsider cuisine\"?", "> cuisine is not the same as fetish, get it right. \n\nso you're rejecting what some other people would consider as cuisine/music/art?\n\ndoesn't sound very outsider-ish to me. Sounds like you are saying that not everything can be art/music 😳 just because its creative or unique", "Just to hop in, here... the only thing I'd say is that in one sense, music does come with a built in good/bad determiner. Music functions on rules (things resolving, how chords are built, modes, etc.), and if the rules aren't followed, it tends to sound discordant (or just wrong). \n\nSo, you could argue that totally untrained musicians would produce \"bad\" music, only because they literally lack the tools needed to even string together the basics of what makes music function. \n\nNow, of course there's something for everyone, but maybe that's not the debate. Assuming none of us are the arbiters of good taste, because anybody can like anything, that leaves the basic foundations of music as the deciding factor.", "glad someone finally acknowledged the extreme sides of this topic. And yeah if you would classify it this way i actually agree. I just find it hypocritical when people espouse themselves to be all inclusive an non judgemental when this also means acknowledging the more extreme sides of this type of thinking", "That's why I can't listen to the majority of Bob Dylan's music.\n\nSure, his lyrics are genius, but I haven't been able to listen to a lot of his songs for long enough to actually try and understand them. The melodies are also very pretty, but his voice is terrible, and his harmonica playing skills are an insult to everyone who has ears.\n\nI wish he didn't try to play music so much when poetry is his world.", "Are you?", "These rules of music are not scientific. They are not defined by observing the nature of the universe but by our own perceptions. The \"rules\" of music can change by time period and culture, and no one set of rules here is correct. The basic foundations of music are simply what we say they are.", "That's not entirely true, though, is it? Don't theories about harmonics and frequency dictate how certain tones can work together, combine to form chords, etc? In that sense, I'd say there's a fair amount of science involved. \n\nAnd again, I actually agree, all music is subjectivity, but I'm trying to play devils advocate. Mostly because I tend to think there exists a line somewhere between music and noise.", "Daniel Johnston may not be a traditional pop singer but if you listen to his music you can hear the Beatles or the beach boys. Just because its him pounding on an old organ doesnt mean the music isn't traditional. Arrange it with harmony and bass instruments and popular music is right there.", "What we find appealing about those harmonics and frequencies is purely subjective.\nWhite noise is quite literally random noise, but many people (myself included) enjoy listening to it. That said I wouldn't call it music either. I think the real question here is a semantic one, I'd agree with there being a line somewhere between music and noise. Where that line is, that's a question that I don't think has an answer.", "Rock on London, Rock on Chicago!\n\nFolgers, good to the last drop.", "You should check out the album 'Nashville Skyline' also 'desire'\n\nI love Dylan, and I love his singing", "\"People can make original things more easily by having more skill with expression. More skill doesn't mean less expression.\"\n\nNah. Nothing kills originality and inspiration as much as repetition, and repetition is the foundation of having a skill.\n\nBy studying music you learn about chords and bars and music history and styles and it's really hard to break free from that later and create something truly original.\n\nIf you never learned from those who went before you, you're just as likely to create something really original as create something that fits into an existing genre.\n\nBruce Lee said \"Empty your cup so that it may be filled\" but emptying your cup is really, REALLY hard.\n\n\"if you don't manipulate emotion you aren't producing music\"\n\nIt's not for you to decide what art is. It's in the eye of the beholder.\n\nThat said, yea sure, most famous musicians had formal training. But how much of their music is truly original? We could debate that definition for days I guess but... I am just so tired of most popular music with its inane lyrics and similar sound... For every Nick Cave there's a thousand Cardi B's....", "Wheaties, breakfast of champions!\n\nI goddamn love it.", "Outsider^^", "It’s banana stuck to the wall art but I enjoyed the video and his thoughts on the subject.", "LOL, I should be \"ashamed\" for what reason? If music made by a semi-homeless (at the time) guy with a $9.99 phone app and $40 budget phone, with no training aside from online tutorials isn't considered outsider, what's the standard? Does the music need to be worse, or am I not mentally ill enough?", "Thanks! It's one of a couple of songs that uses an unusual meter (7/4 time for that one).", "That may be, but Bob Dylan is not really outsider music. He's one of the biggest names of all time.", "No talent = Originality?", "Johnston had talent, just low production.", "You can also hear how he influenced the grunge Era", "I got headbutted by Wesley Willis. Big weird dude. He was really fun.\n\nThis video sorts of gets it wrong. Outsider culture is a lot bigger and harder to explain than simply weird music by weird people.", "Other than Tiny Tim. The others sound like they wrote a Bob Dylan song lol", "No. But from your point of view it is", "Wow you know my point of view? That's super impressive!", "yup, not exactly rocket science since you already laid bare your explanation of what \"outsider\" stuff are", "I doubt your explanation would be correct since you appear to be using your own definition.", "Why is anyone so nasty in this thread?" ]	56	videos	The fascinating world of Outsider Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Vvw3Cy_Rw	/r/videos/comments/rphueb/how_to_feed_6000_mongolian_miners_every_day/	[ "A very well run kitchen.", "Sure is different from what I expected a food court in a mine would be. So I did a bit of digging around and this is probably one of the most modern and recent mines in the world. It's Rio Tinto's Gold and copper mine in Mongolia.\n\nI would like to see their oldest mine looks like though. I'm sure it doesn't look as good as this one, but it's good to see that standards are getting raised in the industry, hopefully. Sure beats the Cobalt mine shown on the front page showing children slavery.", "Considering few months long protests against new Rio Tinto mine in my country just finished, I can't help but think this feels like PR of sorts.\n\nEdit: Actually scratch that, this is PR. Just noticed not a single uniform is worn out or dirty and yet they are miners. Right.", "I too saw this one in my recommendation", "Damn, this video made me hungry. That food looks tasty.", "Its so weird, they have a lot of preparation-intensive food and they buy cheese slices instead of blocks of cheese and using a slicer.", "Very skilled workers, although the prejudice is that it's \"unskilled\"", "I'm not saying this isn't PR, but you know absolutely nothing about modern mining. Very unlikely anybody is going to chowhall in dirty clothing.", "fried eggs drenched in oil, grilled cheese sandwiches, deep fried pastries and fruit salad. not a veggie in sight (other than the caramelized onions which don't really count). so basically shitloads of fat, salt and carbs. i guess nobody in mongolia heard of coronary disease?", "The video itself says there are 4 tons of veggies consumed per day.", ">not a veggie in sight (other than the caramelized onions which don't really count). so basically shitloads of fat, salt and carbs. i guess nobody in mongolia heard of coronary disease?\n\n[...and right on cue, we have the dumbass who likes to comment on videos that they only watched a quarter way through.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Vvw3Cy_Rw&t=518s)", "The scale and productivity are really, really nice to see. I've been BOH for quite awhile and I'd fuck with all of that food. Looks good and the safety standards are on point.", "I work in a different sector, but equally as dirty. Why would anyone be changing to go eat? When I get dirty, all I'm doing is cleaning off my hands and face.", "I wish they used reusable dishes. I feel this normalizes waste in the human psyche...", "I'm in absolute fuckin awe. That food looked BANGIN", "I've worked on remote construction projects all over the world. This is not unusual. Most places have large companies cater the food (Sodexo, etc). Hygeine and cleanliness standards are very high.", "They eat better than 90% of americans", "Where's the most remote?", "an unskilled job is just a name for a job where the applicant doesnt need to have prior training/qualifications not that it doesnt require skill to do", "Daily Consumption is as follows:\n\nEggs: 12,600 eggs\n\nMeat: 11,000 lbs / ~5000 kg\n\nVegetables: 8,000 lbs / ~ 3600 kg\n\nFlour: 2,400 lbs / ~ 1100 kg\n\nRice: 2,800 lbs / ~ 1250 kg\n\nOil: 350 liters / ~ 92 gal\n\nMilk: 400 liters / ~ 106 gal\n\nFruit: 3,600 lbs / 1600 kg", "They change in the drying room and take a shower after every shift. Then they probably have to wear their clean PPE clothes (because they're probably only used to walk on the camp site after their shift) on their way to the dining hall.", "Yup. [This is the dining hall](https://vrify.com/projects/66/sites/218) where I work.", "Because this is a multi-million dollar facility, not jim-bobs muffler shop. They changed out of coveralls and wash up prior to entering the dining halls. Also in a major mine like this only a very small % of the workers are getting visibly dirty.", "Wouldn't hundreds of people tracking dirt and other debris into a cafeteria area be a terrible idea? Why would the company want that kind of a health risk as well as the additional cleaning costs of such a large operation?", "Uniforms are clean but not new. Probably gave everyone the heads up to not come in looking like you got stuck in a mud pit.\n\nMining doesn't necessarily mean you are filthy after the job.", "Well fed workers are productive workers.", "Which is extremely rare in mining these days.", "Agree. Hoping it's just a covid thing.", "I'm a little surprised by the almost 1kg/2lbs of meat per miner, per day.", "Yeah I work in the largest manufacturing plant in my state for a company worth more than 60B. Doesn't really change much. We literally have cleaning crews working 24/7, after a while you stop giving a shit as long as your hands aren't dirty.", "Because the company regularly does not care. Our plant definitely is a health risk just by being there and most plants will have dedicated cleaning crews running constantly.", "you think i have time to watch a fucking 30 minute video? this shit could have been compressed to 3 minutes of highlights. no context or important information would have been lost.", "puts two pieces of cheese and onions on bread\n\n\nMe: huh I mean I'd eat it\n\n\ngrills it\n\nMe: you bastards I'm in", ">you think i have time to watch a fucking 30 minute video?\n\nBased on this thread? Yeah, I think it's far more likely you're some halfwit basement wanker than a titan of industry who only has time to sleep two hours a night.", "> why is that the only alternative you fucking limey cunt?\n\nROFL at being so triggered at getting your own bullshit called out, you had to dig through my comments looking for ammo - and this was the best you could do. \n\n>so a person is either a titan of industry or a \"basement wanker\"? there's no in between?\n\n\"It's more likely\" literally implies that there is an inbetween - and that you're closer to one end than the other. You're actually a genius of the self-own aren't you?\n\nPlease delete this nephew.", "Is that a grilled cheese with sauteed onions?", "i didn't have to go through your history. only bongs use the word \"wanker\". keep jerking off to pictures of the queen, mate.", "Was thinking about this as well. I wonder if single slices just last longer than single large block? Maybe the the time to slice outweighs costs savings, if at all.", "but in all fairness, you're right. i do have time to watch this video, i just don't feel like it.", "I've worked in mines before. We've always had the rule, no covvies allowed in the canteen and all staff had to wear boot covers. Might depend on region but at least where I worked clean was the standard.", "This left me with so many questions!\n\nWhy are they making very fancy cakes? Why are there so many baked goods in general? Why are take-out meals made to order for all employees?\n\nThe numbers also seem a little weird. ~2lbs of meat per worker per day is a lot, but a lot of that weight is lost in cooking or may be bones I guess.\n\nAll in all, very interesting video. Surprised to see the variety and effort put into a lot of the dishes. Any part of this process is tough to comprehend in the scale they are doing it, especially the barbeque section.", "they are boiling short ribs in water.", "I would guess some of that is also bones used to make stock, because it is used, but not directly consumed by the miners.", "Is the food free for the workers?", "/r/HailCorporate", "What were the takeaway lunches? For home? Or was that for overnight shift workers when maybe the kitchen isn’t open?", "yes it would be", " I've also worked in remote camps and we had the same rule. No dirty covvies, hats or muddy boots allowed in the dining hall. Its not some PR shit, its just standard rules to keep a dining hall serving 1000's of people a day clean.", "Mongolians culturally eat a lot of meat", "I wondered about the cakes too. My guess is just for morale?", "I saw asians of all nationalities, caucasians, and several Hispanics in the video. Why limit this to geography. These mines employ people of all nationalities, not just locals. Hell, most are so remote there ARE no locals.", ">For home?\n\nYou mean the dorm? They'd have to take an airplane to go home.", "Missed that part, but makes a ton of sense.", "On Rio Tinto's website, the section on their Mongolia mine is the only one with a \"Myths and Facts\" page. I suspect there is a lot of local controversy around this mine.\n\nhttps://www.riotinto.com/operations/mongolia/oyu-tolgoi/mythsandfacts", "or you know have standards", "While the mine there is kinda okay, iirc from anorganic chemistry, refining gold ore can be really really dirty, because the technically easiest process uses cyanide to get the gold into solution. Cyanide that is left after (hopefully installed) scrubbers can then get other heavy metals in the environment into solution (e.g. mercury) into the ground water.", "Environmental concern was the reason for protests.", "who the fuck cares", "I’ve been to Mongolia several times and this is a LOT better than 95% of food I found in popular restaurants there. \n\nIt seems legit only because that’s major scale for a one-off video. But there’s something going on. \n\nEg. If I ordered any kind of meat in the city (pork, lamb, beef, etc), it would often turn out to be just very old sheep. This produce looked excellent quality.", "Toss-up between the Tajik-Afghan border and Sakhalin Island, Russia.", "Thanks I'm going to dislike this video so others know something is fishy.", "Is o holy night popular in Mongolia?", "This is definitely a PR piece.", "That's because this food servce is provided by the company for their workers so there is no profit to be made there. Hell, most people working in that kitchen are probably relatives of the miners which gives them an even extra incentive to do things right.", "> It seems legit only because that’s major scale for a one-off video. But there’s something going on.\n\nI don’t agree. I’ve been to Mongolia, and I’d concur that the quality of food there is often sub par, but Oyu Tolgoi is a pretty massive operation and the principle material interest of one of its two part-owners (the other being the Mongolian gov’t, which has a not inconsiderable stake in the venture). Compared to what the mine stands to bring in the investments that would need to be made to provide this kind of food service (especially once the kitchen infrastructure is already in place, which it clearly is) seem pretty reasonable, and it really shouldn’t be underestimated how big of an employment draw and morale booster this kind of food service would be.\n\n> This produce looked excellent quality.\n\nIt looked fine, but not like anything that didn’t come out of a factory farm. It’s not like those were heirloom tomatoes or free range beef.", "Not sure if it applies to Mongolia, but there’s a specific taste for processed American cheese slices in a lot of countries owing to it being so cheap, relatively easy to ship and shelf stable, and often showing up anywhere Americans have a military presence. Add to that it’s pretty mild compared to a lot of cheeses, and you have a recipe for it becoming popular in other countries in a way that a decent cheddar really wouldn’t be.\n\nIt’s not unlike spam (which is fucking fantastic) in that regard.", "It’s cheaper and it lasts longer. Half-decent cheese, even the heavily processed stuff with lots of preservatives, is going to go moldy after a month or two at best. Processed American “cheese product” (and don’t get me wrong, I love the stuff) can last several times as long, and is cheaper pound for pound to boot.", "A very quick google search indicates that last time they published statistics about three quarters of employees at the site were Mongolian, and they aimed to increase that proportion. What is more, much of (certainly a plurality and maybe a majority) of the food we saw being prepared was Mongolian. It seems rather safe to say that Mongolian dietary habits play a roll in the cafeteria’s menu.", "The boiled meats were the only thing that gave me pause, but that also makes for a lovely stock/broth if you season it well, and still looks better than anything I ate in my cafeteria growing up", "I did a reline for the mills on this minesite. I have eaten in the cafeteria and its not bad at all. They actually had two sides. One was for western people and the other served Mongolian dishes. I bounced between both sides. I was there during the nadam festival and got to try horse.", "Ok, fair points!\n\nIf they had a branch in UB I would definitely eat there often, though!", "Dang! These guys eat better than I do.", "As a humble retired chef amount of preparation still twist my mind.", "Up there with Greensleeves on the top 100." ]	87	videos	How to Feed 6000 Mongolian Miners Every Day - Mongolia's Biggest Kitchen in the Gobi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueJ_flECV0s	/r/videos/comments/rpii2t/anime_fight_woohoo/	[ "A Dragon Ball fan coping with denial about a parody characters strength. Cool", "😂🤣 why do people complain about everything", "Idk, I’m fulfilling the Reddit prophecy." ]	3	videos	Anime fight! Woohoo!
https://youtu.be/aGPiQ47ahsE	/r/videos/comments/rpijw6/shipwrecks_depth_comparison/	[ "Kind of strange that it took so much time to find some of these since they are all aligned. Nature is beautiful. /s", "sounds pedantic but if you wanted to personalize the depth you could try and swim down 10 or 20 m", "I dont think it would be great, https://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/inside.html#:~:text=Beneath%20the%20oceans%2C%20the%20crust,as%20deep%20as%20100%20km.", "TIL the ocean was deeper than I thought...like....really f\\&\\^ing deep.", "The deepest point is 6.8 miles.", "It goes quite a bit deeper than this, too", "This is a great animation, but a lot of the models are inaccurate. The USS america is pictures a sub, but it was in fact a large carrier.", "Kind of creepy seeing how much deeper the animation was going! The story of the deepest wreck (USS Johnston) was an interesting read: [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Johnston_(DD-557)#World_War_II_service)", "Yep, \"Taffy 3\" were a bunch of badasses.\n\nFixed link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Johnston_(DD-557)#World_War_II_service", "Super cool. Just wish they had also labeled where each wrench was.", "Geeze.. It's pretty eye opening to see that even boats made in recent times, of the latest technology, still sink, all the goddam time... I never want to get on another boat.. Cruises have always been off the list for me. It's crazy that way more boats sink than planes crash.. You'd think humans would have this water shit figured out after this many centuries.. \n\nI'll take outer space over the deep ocean any day lol", "I have one wrench in my workshop, honest to god", "I went to Stockholm, Sweden where the Vasa (45 Seconds into the video) Museum is located. It's crazy how well preserved that ship from the 1600's is. Also that they managed to salvage it almost fully intact. Really cool museum for anyone travelling there.", "FunFact: They sank it on purpose", "I came in to say this. Taffy 3 were Pacific unsung heros.", "How many football fields is that?", "~120", "Am I a child for laughing that the one that got deepest was called johnston?", "I think he meant to type wench", "This isn't the question you asked, but an NFL football is approximately 11 inches. If we assume 6.8 miles is an exact figure, the deepest point in the ocean is 39,168 NFL footballs deep.", "Lol metal balls studio", "Anyone else get anxiety watching this? Could just be my fear of the ocean", "Are you sure he didnt mean winch?", "The deepest point we \\\\know about\\\\* :)", "That's where you'll find my self-confidence.", ">I'll take outer space over the deep ocean any day lol\n\nJesus yes, there are things down there. And while there might also be things out there, they would also, no doubt, be weirded out by the stuff in the deep.", "The coastline of this city seems very dangerous.", "Exactly! Who knew Hong Kong’s Victoria Harbour was so deep!?", "also, last i heard, we know a lot more about the fucking surface of the moon than we do about the vast majority of the bottom of our oceans. like, the properly deep 'abyssal plane' or whatever they call the huge, vastness of the ocean floor that we've never fucking been to or seen but the tiniest fraction of.", "I was thinking “you’d think they’d stop taking boats out in that area” 😂", "> meet out more damage.\n\nmete out", "She’s upstairs yelling at me about something.", "meat out", "It should be said that many of these wrecks from the South Pacific are gone/missing due to surreptitious salvage for low background steel.", "There's an alarming number of Russian submarines on that list.\n\nAlso not featured, but infamous USS Wasp (CV-7) was found only in 2019 at a depth of 4,345 m. Equally famous USS Hornet (CV-8) was found also in 2019 by the same team, at a depth of 5,300 m.\n\nI recommend a [read](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Johnston_\$DD-557\$#Engagement_of_Taffy_3) or a [viewing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AdcvDiA3lE) of the life and death of USS Johnston (DD-557) which is absolutely nuts.", "At least 2", "It should be clarified that wrecks in the south china sea, and south/north pacific are not being salvaged(illegally) at depth. But rather in the significantly shallower Java sea & Bay of Thailand. Pretty much no one is getting their hands on USS Johnston.", "I don't know what ships you were referring to specifically, but several of the more modern navy ships in the video were sunk intentionally.", "Hey I went there when I was a kid! Still remember it because of how cool it was.", "Damn that was a crazy read. Balls of steel", "Don't talk about mom like that.", "But surely at that depth, the footballs would be crushed and become smaller?", "You raise a valid point. And don't call me Shirley.", "Super cool stuff - thanks !", "I suppose I was just looking at the years in which many of these craft sank.. I wasn't considering the idea that they were sunk intentionally.", "It's amazing how all these ships managed to sink on the same hill!", "Same with the Kittiwake. Dove it 2 years ago, was pretty cool, but everything is stripped out of it since they sank it for diving specifically.", "Crazy that all those ships sank in a row like that 😂", "/r/thassalaphobia welcomes you", "My ears popped just watching this", "My ears popped just watching this", "Yes, the act is called \"scuttling\". It's typically done in wartime, as to deny the enemy access to the ship. \nHowever, there are peacetime reasons to do it. Some ships are used to create artificial reefs, so scuttling in shallow water is common. The USS America was going to be salvaged, but they decided to bombard her and study how she sank, to hopefully improve future aircraft carrier designs. I believe they did so in deep water to deny access to foreign powers that might be temped to snoop around.", "Not to be pedantic but the model of the USS America in this video is most definitely a carrier. The model is what caused me to look it up because \"Oh damn, how did that carrier go down?\" (Turns out it was scuttled as others have mentioned)", "\\+ /r/submechanophobia\n\nI'm surprised at myself for being able to watch this video, but this link stays blue", "That’s actually where everyone’s 10mm goes", "This video has occupied most of my day off from work. I’ve been watching and then pausing and looking up the ships and submarines. Fascinating and sad so many lives..", "This is scary, I hate it.", "It's like over 13 Burj Khalifas stacked", "What if you were locked inside of a watertight vault or safe?\nWould you run out of air before the ship hit bottom or would the air pressure change affect the air inside of the vault?", "The USS Johnson's wreck was only discovered in 2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Johnston_(DD-557)#Wreck\n\nAnd it was only in 31 March 2021 that the full wreck was able to be surveyed, as the 2019 mission couldn't reach where the wreck slid further down into even deeper water.", "So the deepest point in the ocean is about 35,000 feet down. Here’s a good way to picture this: imagine being on a plane when it’s cruising at the highest altitude and looking out the window at the ground. That’s roughly the distance from the surface to the ocean’s deepest point.", "that's insane.", "Saved for later viewing. Thank you!", "My husband has this. He CANNOT watch this video. He would freak out.", "Would have been better if more stats than just depth were added on to the wreck. Such as how or why it sank and if there were any lives lost and where it sank/drifted due to currents.", "if your a boat driver – DO NOT TAKE YOURE BOAT TO THIS BEACH.", "thats a bit of a misconception. weve mapped the ocean to a 10km resolution, and mostly to a 2k, with most \"popular\" spots to much much less than that. I work on research ships, happy to answer questions", "What does a \"10 km resolution\" mean? Does that mean a pixel is 10 km?\n\nIf you could pick any ocean area to research, study, or simply look at right now where would you like to go?\n\nDuring the course of your work what was your most favourite find?\n\nMy partner is a big fan of the EVNautilus YouTube channel and livestream, I'll see if she has any questions!", "Can someone explain why Costa Concordia shows a depth of \\~37m but is not completely submerged? Surely it is not taller than that?", "Operation Hail Stone in 1944 sunk a bunch of converted merchant ships in Truk (Chuuk) lagoon in Micronesia. One was in such shallow water, about 80 ft., that the mast was sticking out of the water. Sadly, abuse and time finally caused it to collapse. Some visitors were using it to moor to rather than dropping anchor. \nThat same island group had 1 island bulldozed by the Japanese to look like a giant aircraft carrier. \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxzaiMPGeE", "We must be looking at a different part of the video. This is the second deepest and it’s definitely modelled as a sub.", "It rests on a sloping rock ledge on its side.", "Most phobia subs are all about coping with your fears. But i love how that r/thassalaphobia is all about triggering that phobia. Imagine if /r/Arachnophobia was all about jump-scaring you with spiders.", "Right, exactly that!\n\nI've worked in all the oceans, and I wouldn't say I have a favorite. They all have their own personalities!\n\nI'm not a scientist, just one of the technicians that maintains the ships science gear so I haven't made any finds per se. That being said one of my most memorable trips was supporting a group of divers that were looking at kelp forests in the Aleutian islands. We got to go ashore at some of the outermost ones and walk around, which is a very rare opportunity.\n\nThe nautilus is a cool ship! It's a small world so we work with them from time to time. In fact the ship I used to work on just happened to be in the area a few months ago when the nautilus lost their rov. The Thompson happened to have the JASON rov aboard and was able to come over to them and recover theirs.", "Hmm interesting. Here's what I'm seeing for reference (granted the USS America was not this exact model of carrier). https://i.imgur.com/H5hEoCa.png Though this is the 4th deepest in the video, not second deepest in the video, so I wonder if maybe we are looking at different parts? Must solve this mystery!", "Back when the History channel was good, they did an [episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zrorXYgh-A&ab_channel=HISTORY) on it in a show about WW2 plane and ship engagements, would recommend", "Thank you! I really enjoy this topic and will definitely go down a rabbit hole now :) sincerely, thank you", "Awesome! Thanks for your reply! My partner is looking up the Aleutian Islands right now.\n\nIt's so great to hear that all the research ships work together. My partner heard about the rov loss and recovery. Keep up the great work!", "You’re right. Now I look at it closer, I see what you mean. At first and even second glance the raised part at the Center looked like the top of a sub :)", "Ah I see what you mean, it definitely has a bit of a nuclear sub shape to it.", "Could you please share some stories. That sounds like an awesome job!" ]	80	videos	Shipwrecks Depth Comparison
https://youtu.be/6OeFK98z1TY	/r/videos/comments/rpkfrf/our_future_farm_in_japan_will_be_here_property/	[ "Why", "do not make hugel beds. it doesnt work", "So you can still use discing right? that could get you statred and ready to do an early cover crop..", "fuck it, get some draft horses", "What have you found that works best for your beds?" ]	6	videos	Our future farm in Japan will be here! Property Tour
https://youtu.be/CqR_iHKGY-w	/r/videos/comments/rplrax/my_sister_made_a_childrens_cartoon_this_is_the/	[ "What program did she use? I have a 14 year old who wants to learn how to do animation. Already does alot of digital drawing. Your sister is talented!", "very cool, work with kids and im sure the young ones would enjoy this!", "she made all the illustrations and voice acting herself and worked with someone to animate it together with her. So it was a team effort. I'll ask what program they used.\n\nGreat for your kid!! Hopefully we can see their work soon too!! :)", "Thank you! I'll pass the feedback to her. This started as a pandemic project and now she's really motivated to get Pekito known more :).", "Flash is pretty robust and has an easy to learn interface. Another suggestion is Toonboom, bit harder to learn than flash though imo.", "Thank you!" ]	6	videos	My sister made a children's cartoon. This is the First release of it with good animation. Dedicated to our 15 yr old family pet canary, Pekito. The Pekito Adventures!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elT65h0B0zM	/r/videos/comments/rplrvm/the_late_archbishop_desmond_tutus_friendship_with/	[ "I loved watching them together. RIP 🙏", "Its like watching Boomy and Aang at the same age.", "These are actually the two most famous people I've ever encountered in person. \n\nMet Tutu at the first King Day celebration in Atlanta. Ran into the DL walking down the street in Chicago with his entourage (he was in town for a big peace conference).\n\nRIP.", "Wholesome af", "If you liked that clip I can't recommend The Book of Joy: Lasting Happiness in a Changing World enough. To read the conversations between two men who've had such difficulties throughout their histories yet manage to truly love life is inspiring.", "Good two to pick!", "And authentic. That’s what I like about them. It’s rare these days.", "I’ve seen the Dalai Lama close up several times. I don’t know if there’s such a thing as enlightenment, but if there is - something about his awareness felt exactly what it must be like." ]	8	videos	The late Archbishop Desmond Tutu's friendship with the Dalai lama
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2jrvWUNHSPQ&feature=share	/r/videos/comments/rplu9u/pick_a_side_youtube_video_from_mamamax_pls_share/	[ "No", "Stop reposting this edgelord shit.", "Thank you for posting this, more people need to see it", "Does nobody remember Matt Wattson and the whole #Youtubewakeup thing? Like this sounds exactly like it." ]	4	videos	pick a side youtube (video from MamaMax) PLS share and spread the word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GjMbMQGOpA	/r/videos/comments/rpmdyx/how_to_pronounce_omicron_the_star_trek_way/	[ "😂🤣", "Can’t upvote this enough haha. 😁😁🤣", "with a french accent like jean-luc", "Fun factoid: some intelligence agencies have outed American spies by asking them to say the word \"croissant\"", "It's Greek, it's pronounced OH-mee-kron. Just because some Star Trek actors are rubes is no reason to pronounce it wrong.", "Sounds like sabotage", "a tasty tactic indeed", "One egg and cheese shibboleth, please.", "kwa-sahn?", "I've never heard that pronunciation in the US, its not even in the dictionary. Just Oh-Meh-kron and Ah-Meh-Kron. It does list Oh-mee-kron as a potential british pronounciation", "How many micron?", "So is it \"omicron\" or \"omicron\"? I'm still confused", "Those are both wrong its \"omicron\".", "Sabotage is French, and we pronounce that word correctly.", "Jed would be proud.", "Well that's just weird. It doesn't even sound like a word anymore.", "0", "But, how do they pronounce Sabotage in the Star Trek universe?\n\n[William Shatner being corrected on how to say Sabotage](https://youtu.be/znz44MPJcFs)", "O", "Croy-shawnd", "Those poor Ephraimites.", "“Faith is the true Shibboleth.”", "It was a reference to shatner's famous blowout on a voice acting director.\n\n[I don't say sabot-aww-je, I say sa-bo-taj](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znz44MPJcFs)", "It's definitely not \"oh-myu-cron\", which seems to be what some people are saying, somehow.", "I always remember it as Omicron the main facility from Soma the game", "There is only one pronunciation to be concerned about\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia5c78zlyxw", "I was hoping for a randomly inserted \"omicron persei 8\" joke from Futurama.", "What’s omicron?", "However the fuck you want, got it.", "Lowercase Omega.", "I'd say somebody Sabataaged this video", "obamicron", "It's \"I'm a crumb\"", "It actually comes from the Irish \"O'Micron\".", "Thanks Obamicron", "Oh-micron sounds stupid.", "saxon detected, opinion rejected", "Whatever it's pronounced like. Fuck it. Really did a number on me for Christmas.", "Only someone like miles obrien would understand that", "\"One is my name, the other is not.\"", "Literally: During WW2, the Brits would ask suspected spies innocent questions to see how they pronounced the answers.\n\nYou'd ask things that had like answers like \"Worcestershire\", etc. A good spy would know the answer. Only a great spy would pronounce it correctly.", "I understand that reference.", "No it's \"Army corn\"", "Here ya go:\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia5c78zlyxw", "They already guessed then ...", "\"Omicron Omicron Imicron I'm a crumb I'm a crumb...\"", "You joke, but you are actually not that wrong breaking it like that.\n\nIts Greek and it means \"o mikron\" translating to \"little o\", omega means \"o mega\" translating to \"big o\". Their names indicate their phonetic sound in ancient Greek. Omicron being a short o and omega a long o.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSIhX-VWhtQ", "And don't even think about stopping the Single Female Lawyer broadcast", "No, it means \"descendent of Micron\" silly.", "That man is insufferable.", "i've been saying omnicorn", "ahm-icron or ohm-icron?", "I'm Greek, the guy you replied to is correct.\n\nOh - mee - kron. The Greek word is \"όμικρον\".\n\n[You can use Google translate](https://translate.google.com/?hl=el&sl=auto&tl=el&text=%CE%8C%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD%20&op=translate), click the sound button and it'll correctly pronounce the word to you.", "IM A CRUMB", "The pronunciation in another language isn't too relevant for the correct/official pronunciation in English. Nobody says \"Par-ee\", everyone says \"Paris\" for the capital of France. Similarly, nobody says \"beeta\" and instead says \"bay-tah\" for the greek letter \"beta\"\n\nSo yep, you are 100% right that it is OH-mee-kron in Greek, but that is not how you pronounce it in English", "The n is silent.", "I am Lrrr and I DEMAND it be pronounced Omicron!", "I'm a cron \nYou're a cron \nEverybody cron cron", "Because of this, I expected pronunciation to be all over the place in this video.", "If it’s small o, would it not be “ahm” rather than “ohm”? Omicron referring to short o such as “octopus” and omega referring to long o such as “microscope”?\nWith that said- I think if you said either ah-mike-cron\nor oh-mike-ron people would look at you like you were insane. I’ve heard “oh” and “ah” -mickron but as you pointed out, nobody says “mike-ron”.", "Actually it is spelled Khorne, and it is pronounced BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE", "Oh My Kron\n\nOh Me Kron\n\nOh Ma Kron\n\nAh Ma Kron\n\nAh Me Kron\n\nAh My Kron\n\nEveryone leans into the vowel sounds differently. \n\nI guess I say it like \"Oh Ma Kron\" which is one of the accepted pronunciations according to Merriam Webster along with \"Ah Ma Kron\" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/omicron\n\nApparently, \"Oh My Kron\" is the British way to say it.", "What it's like seeing the daily news.", "Kwa shaw", "Omicron Omicron Omi Omi Omicron", "I've been making that joke sense the virus started, and so far, no one has noticed.", "It spelled wrong\nOmniCon \nOmnicient=All\nCon=Deception\nOmniCon= All Pervasive Con", "Where is omicron used in advanced math? I haven't ever seen it used (aside from algorithmic complexity, where everyone calls it \"big O\", I didn't even realize it was omicron until I googled it) and I've taken a decent amount of math classes.", "I read it and pronounce it as \"Omnicron\" like a Deception and can't do it any other way.", "Same here. It's terrible.", "/r/Risa for more star trek silliness", "It's all Greek to me\n\n¯\\\\\\_(ツ)_/¯", "I loved this, thank you.", "What did Omicron mean on star trek ?", "I'm going to say this to every English person I meet with a bad take.", "I feel like there are a lot of Covid references in Star Trek...", "Yea right. It was like the first joke everybody made lol.", "[My little kwa-sont](https://youtu.be/kTFZyl7hfBw?t=132).", "Now do Futurama", "Aw-mih-crawn is what I’m guessing Picard would say it like. I’ll update later when I watch the video. \n\nI was right!", "lmao thank you so much for sharing that. \n\n\"I don't say sabotage you say sabotage. I say sabataage\"", "Are you sure it isn’t a startled man in a fedora?\n\n\nO! M’icron\n\n\ntips hat", "Knew it sounded familiar.", "Omicron persei 8", "Either (in American English). When there's no consensus, some words just end up with more than one correct pronunciation.", "potato, potato", "It comes from Greek, but unless you're going to start spelling it όμικρον, it's English. And if we insisted on the original language's pronunciation for every single loanword in English, you'd end up a rube within a span of minutes yourself.", "That's a French-ass word.", "He’s French-Canadian. That’s how you say sabotage there." ]	90	videos	How to pronounce 'OMICRON' the Star Trek way...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiMdpE1Nz5w	/r/videos/comments/rpmiro/rip_personal_cd_their_demise_passed_largely/	[ "I was not a fan of these, too much skipping . iPods were the sweet spot, but no one uses those and someone stole my 120gb so the can gft\n\nLove my cds", "I miss my iPod nano.", "Oh I noticed. I noticed when my music stopped skipping.", "No one noticed? Bruh we all celebrated the day we finally got an MP3 player these things were terrible.", "Minidisk ftw. Still a cool form factor.", "I remember using these in middle school and early high school before I eventually got an iPod. I remember ripping CD's on my computer and having to burn custom CDs, keeping a book of CDs I had created in my room or parent's car...\n\nI guess I always had cheap ones but those personal CD players sucked. They were too big to comfortably fit in a pocket, would skip tracks if you're walking around with it and the battery life wasn't good to say nothing of the fact that CD's couldn't hold many songs back then. Maybe 15-20 on the most expensive CD that I had ripped.\n\nGoing to MP3 players was a huge upgrade. This day and age with Spotify and the like for streaming whatever is the best. \n\nThere are some things i'm nostalgic about. CDs and CD players isn't one of them.", "Came here to find the MD comments. Still best format", "In fact these things could play mp3 from discs. Long before there was an affordable flash memory of a reasonable size.", "Why do British people talk like they have their noses clogged?", "Recently I replaced the batteries in my iRiver IMP550 and it plays like new. It's even thinner than Sony in the video.\nNo practical use, my current player is much better quality, pure nostalgia.", "Yeah it was a sad day when I had to put my Sony D5A away and not carry a personal CD player that also needed 6 C Cell batteries to power it up.", "My iRiver can play mp3 from discs. It is more resistant to shaking - less disk reads are required. \nWords from the past: anti-shock, G-Shock protection etc.", "Good riddance if you ask me. Who on earth is going to miss constant stuttering and battery changes.", "Also those types tended to have a large buffer since they came late to the game, when skipping had largely been addressed.", "My 2004 car has a CD player than can play mp3s. I used it to listen to LOTR music I obtained from my legally owned CDs at the time.", "I'm actually surprised that you have one with Bluetooth on, mine all got retired long before Bluetooth came alone.", "What do u mean no one noticed? Lol.", "Largely unnoticed? Maybe by people born after the mp3 player.", "I recorded tons of music from the Internet over decades. I played the music in the CD players in the two trucks (each with a 6 cd changer/player) I owned over that time. I recently have been using an old PC with a working CD player to move the music to thumb drives, which now plays the music in my current car. A laborious process but necessary as CD players are now a thing of the past.", "Wtf we all knew this when mp3 players came out with aux cables", "700mb felt like an eternity's worth of music back then.", "Rio Volt, what’s up", "Good riddance. They sucked ass.", "Unfortunately for Minidisc mp3s came out too soon after. Also those discs were expensive", "Ironically I ended up teaching my daughter how to burn CD's as she gave mixes to her friends for Xmas. \n\nEven learned what a coaster is....", "Music from such a player will be eternal.\n\nAnd also the history of this last locomotive [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgL32xmPckA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgL32xmPckA)", "watch some of his other vids. dude is a massive minidisk nerd. literally has 100s of players.", "Like, this Christmas?", "Just we had to walk incredibly softly to prevent the laser skipping.", "Today I was looking at car stereos, and Crutchfield described car stereos with CD players as targeted for \"people interested in retro music formats.\"\n\nSo that stung a little.", "Some of my Napster downloads had bad rips with skips :(", "If you haven't heard it, Gary Gulman's take on the Discman is gold:\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJDyB7pcgEY", "That isn't related to one's nationality or accent, a lot of people have issues with their noses, regardless what language they speak.\n\nMaybe it's just more noticeable with the British accent, although I doubt it. There's just something about it where the 't' is often not quite heard, which also depends on the dialect. And I love it.\n\nBut I was reminded of the voice of Enn Reitel, specifically where he voiced Delvin Mallory in Skyrim.", "They were still too big and heavy to comfortably fit in any of your pockets.", "I had a Rio 600 with 64mb in high school. Couldn't afford many blank CDs so this was a god send.", "Techmoan is a great channel! Always love his analysis of old audio equiptment!", "I used these so much. Thankfully the later models had good antiskip buffers. I think the early ones only had a couple of seconds and would skip in bumpy rides like on a bus.", "There was a window of time when 120gb ipods were super in demand.", "I couldn't deal with the crappy Sony software that mine needed, it was so slow and painful to use", "Same with my minidisc recorder. I rediscovered it this past year, just in time to listen to a recording of the cicadas last time they were here (17 years ago).", "because he just bought it?", "CDs are still great. But they just aren't great on the Go. Keep them at home and play them on your home speakers and you'll like them a lot more", "I had a Sony Sports model that was fairly skip resistant. I was able to run with it and not have it skip.", "honestly, I wish I had one of these, streaming services just don't match up to the quality and you notice it with some older stuff you used to listen to on CD.", "I loved my Diskman. Got it in 1990 and had it in my pickup. Hit a bump and it would skip. But the sound was so much better than a tape.", "the good sony's like the one he has in the video esp once MP3 playback came out did fine with not skipping in pockets, mini disc was even better. back in those days i used one every weekend as my family had a biz at a local flea market so i was there working and walking around the flea market every weekend with either a sony discman or later on mini disc.", "Totally. It was great.", "I’m pretty sure every generation has had loads of those. Some fads only last a year.", "I was an early mp3 adopter and had this piece of [shit.](https://www.amazon.com/i2Go-eGo-96MB-Player-Blue/dp/accessories/B00004SDFE) Mine was the first version and it could take a 64MB CF card. We've come so far!", "I watched the whole thing.\n\nFirst it started falling over, then it fell over.", "yep, last Monday, had a stack of blank CD's buried in my office and gave her a whole lesson on format conversion and the time limit of how many songs.", "Ahh, playing music roulette whenever you took a CD out of the binder slide to see if it's too scratched to run anymore.\n\nI may or may not have contributed to microplastics in the env by chucking dead discs out the window in disgust when they failed.", "His channel is basically about all old media formats. He has some pretty out there ones too that he'll dig in deeply on. Fascinating stuff if you're into that sort of thing.", "Especially when all of the songs were downloaded in terrible quality so the file sizes were much smaller.\n\nI remember when I started getting into lossless downloads of dance songs because I was DJ'ing semi-frequently and everyone uses CD-J's so you basically have to have CD's if you're working with other people, but anyway, it always made me laugh that I could only fit like two or three songs max on a CD when I used to make burned CD's in junior high from songs downloaded from Limewire and I could fit like 30+ songs on a single disk. And that was in 2002/2003 technology, so the CD's probably could hold fewer songs than the ones I still used into the 2010's.", "I just bought my 16 year old son a vintage Sony discman for Christmas.", "Most cars definitely still have CD players", "I still remember when CDs were the brand new thing. And the generations of anti-skip tech lol. Music CDs were useful, but Im glad we're done with them now.", "i remember being so hyped to finally have something that could carry more than one album on it. Then i tried to use to the software to put music onto the mini disc and immediately regretted purchasing it.", "Yeah, it was less than ideal trying to listen to a Pink Floyd album that way.", "Those weren't bad rips. Those were the music industry paying companies to supply bad copies of their songs.", "CD players sucked big time. Skipped all the time and ate up so much batteries. Burn in hell CD player.", "That's pretty much every game console since the beginning of home game consoles. We can organize ourselves by which console we were first introduced to. I'm an Atari/NES kid. My son is a PS3 kid.", "New ones don't seem to. I just got a 2021 Honda Civic and there's no cd player. Hell there isn't even an aux port.", "Same with stand-alone MP3 players, honestly.\n\nThe iPod, for being such a huge fixture, really only had about a 10 year run of relevance.", "I’ve been pretty happy with Amazon Music HD. Good selection of high bitrate titles at a low cost (if you already have Prime).\n\nDownside is their recommendation engine is not nearly up to par compared with Spotify, IMO.", "The most overrated music format", "As someone with a shelf full of CDs, 100% this. The best use for portable CD players is sampling discs at yard sales and thrift stores.", "That's straight fucked, no aux? I just bought a 22 Subaru Ascent and it has a CD player. Also it's not like it's an old design the Ascent only started being made in 2019", "Lossless streaming services are a thing and the quality is often better than what you can get on CD.", "do you use one?", "Not at the moment, but I've used Deezer before and it's pretty good. The big problem they have is the same as all streaming services; you need an internet connection, you can't use them on any device, and they don't have alot of more obscure stuff.\n\nDownloading FLACs/ripping CDs is the best balance between quality, convince, and control IMO.", "at 128kbps it nearly was. todays 320kbps back then seemed like insanity, and we gladly suffered symbols sounding like shit.", "It didn’t happen unnoticed, it just happened 10years ago.", "I hate how difficult it is to buy music or movies as a gift now.", "Hey it's not like the IPod is one of the most famous products of the last 25 years or anything", "Aren't all cd players personal? Did they mean to say portable?", "My car only has radio and a cd player", "A 256kbps AAC file is indiscernible from a CD.", "Every new car has Bluetooth. \n\nAlmost all new cars, even the cheap ones, have Android Auto and CarPlay.\n\nMost new cars do not have CD players.", "But what if I want to play media from a different phone than I'm using to navigate, what if my passenger wants to put on their playlist but I don't want to pair my car to their phone?", "Yeah, my version of Hella Good was just a loop of the bridge/chorus/something for 3 minutes. I was amazed when I later found out the some didn’t actually sound like that. It was actually quite good.", "Have them share their playlist to your account assuming they use the same music streaming service. \n\nOr just have them say \"<Hey Siri or Ok Google> play <song they want to play>\" to the car. \n\nWhy would it matter if your using the same phone for navigation and audio? The point of CarPlay and Android Auto is to do just that. The ease of changing songs with voice commands during a road trip is actually really annoying. We can never make it through a whole song before someone commands Google to change it to something else.", "Great format... shame it's also dead and never took off.", "Some people actually to invest into owning music making playlists, especially if you're in an area where you're likely to hit dead zones.", "OpenMG Jukebox/Sonicstage. A fucking disaster, killed NetMD as if the MP3 player wasn't already going to.\n\nLater on there was a Winamp plugin for NetMD that actually worked, too late though.", "No, personal. As in one listener.", "Toshiba still make them:\n\nhttps://www.toshiba-lifestyle.com/jp/pro_cd/ty-p30/", "CDs are \"starting\" to go?! LOL. No one under 25 even knows what they are any more 😂", "Yeah fuck all that. I'm still rocking the tape deck with a cassette adapter aux input", "I had one that was 160gb, I wish I still had it...", "I had both at once. Actually, I got my cd player after having an mp3 for a while. CDs didn't go anywhere when mp3 came along, so how else was I supposed to listen when I'm not in the car?", "How old are your parents? My dad would be in his mid 80s and went shopping for them all of the time.", "And at least on all the ones I had, you had to skip through the songs one by one which kind of killed the coolness.", "I'm assuming you're either very young or just don't know much about audio. \n\nImagine listing to music pre-CD. The only formats you have available most of the time are vinyl, cassette and maybe 8-track. All of these formats have the same inherent restriction, that being their analog nature, which guarantees the quality of the recording will degrade a little bit with every play. On top of that, the only formats that are meaningfully portable use tape, which sounds than a vinyl record. If you do use vinyl, you're largely restricted to at-home listing due to the size, and you have to buy expensive cartridges for your player and change them out if you want to avoid damaging your records even more each time you play them. Also consider that all these formats are prone all to irreparable damage if they aren't stored correctly within a fairly narrow temperature range.\n\nNow imagine this has been the norm you entire life, and CDs suddenly appear. They would seem like a miracle format. They're smaller than not only a 12\" vinyl record but also a 45, they weigh less than a cassette tape, and can somehow still hold more music than both sides of an LP combined. They are also more durable than records and have a wider temperature tolerance than any existing format. On top of all that, they sound far better than anything that's come before, and the quality of the recording doesn't inherently degrade with use.\n\nWhen you consider all that, it's no wonder that compact disc was considered the pinnacle of audio formats for many years, and while it has since been outclassed in both quality and convince, it still has some practical utility in the modern day, due to it's low cost, high sound quality, and near universal adoption.", "papaya", ">It was actually quite good.\n\nMaybe even Hella Good?", "I am referring to the actual disk itself. so fragile. Yet marketed as indestructible. \nSo your high and mighty long winded reply is a huge waste of your time. I did not bother reading past the condescending beginning. Ha ha.", "Let's not make this portable.", "While they are fragile, they're considerably more durable than LP, which is why they're marketed that way. You'd know that if you'd actually read my reply, which is all about contextualizing why CDs were/are perceived as being so great.", "Then hit the button to download the playlist to your phone.\n\nhttps://support.spotify.com/us/article/listen-offline/\n\nhttps://support.google.com/youtubemusic/answer/6313535?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid\n\nhttps://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/add-music-and-listen-offline-iph0cff2d191/ios", "Why so zoomers think time started 20 years ago?", "I remember my friend had a MP3 CD Player, he could fit SO MUCH Smash Mouth and Limp Bizkit on that thing!", "The original NFT.", "Not by me. I complain when I can’t get mine repaired nor can I find one in store to replace it. \n\nPhysical media is great. Meanwhile my MP3 player corrupted files and doesn’t properly record anymore. Give me my 30 dollar CD over that 200 dollar stick any day.", "What, you didn’t have the purpose built CD fanny pack?", "I wouldn’t call it a fad. A fad is something that exists because it’s trendy. This was a genuinely useful product. It was significantly better than tapes, which it replaced. It’s just remarkable how quickly it got replaced with something that was also better. \n\nWhich, come to think of it, has also been replaced. I don’t own an MP3 player anymore. We all have smart phones.", "That's still way more storage than you get on most smart phones...even if you have a high-capacity smartphone you're not getting all that storage for music. \n\nWhat killed MP3 players for me was Google Play being able to stream my own library mixed with their library-- but of course that feature is gone now\n\nIf I still had a car I'd get another MP3 player because most of my music isn't on streaming services and never will be.", "They say 2030 is the decline of the phone, and initial adoption of AR.", "[Relevant](https://c.tenor.com/xFjYQ5a9yeEAAAAC/nobody-cares.gif)", "The first commercial CD player came out in 1982, I'd say it counts as a retro format.", "Heck, here in Japan I can still go to the big electronics retailers and find a few CD players, because some of the older generation just can't figure out MP3s.", "Did he forget he had three of them?", "As someone who has a 12 disc cd changer and currently no Aux port.\n\nIt's not that I like retro formats, it's that I have good cds and means to play them.", "There was definitely a point in time where this was a multi generational product, albeit brief. I recall seeing adults with discmans bound to their arms as they jogged, and kids considerably younger than me, grade school aged - who had them. \nThe moment technology began to improve upon the record player in terms of compact portability, each new delivery system had comparatively shorter moments in the sun before something else was developed and grew to prominence.", "cd's are still the most efficient way to sell 700 mbs of data and lossless is still a superior format to mp3", "Which is a way off. That would mean phones have beaten the record of both MP3 players and cds.", "[I hate you. Take your damn upvote.](https://i.imgur.com/7pDchEj.jpg)", "Not really, that fails to consider the evolution of the phone as a transformative process. We've had candy bar phones, flip phones, the current touch screens, folding phones are rolling in fast right now.", "A folding phone is still just a phone. You’ll still be streaming music on it. It’s not a new medium.", "Doesn't that nullify your argument? Cell phones have been around for about 40 yrs now, I guess I'm confused what you're going for here.", "My original point was that portable CD players were not a fad. They were a relatively short lived technology, but they served a legitimate niche. They weren’t just fashionable for a while, they were genuinely the best tool available for the job. \n\nThen you started talking about flip phones and I lost any kind of track of what we were talking about.", "oh haha, looks like we got our wires crossed. Have a good night (assuming you're in the Americas)", "You too.", "Do they say personal mp3 player then?" ]	125	videos	R.I.P. Personal CD - Their demise passed largely unnoticed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pxMTXadCqI	/r/videos/comments/rpnd6n/john_frusciante_plays_snow/	[ "John is a freaking genius! So glad he’s back again with RHCP. I cannot wait to go see them on tour this next year. Epic shows! 🤯", "killed it", "I’ve always had such a deep love for the guitar in “Snow” since I first heard about RHCP. Seeing this kind of thought behind it just makes it that much more special.", "I'm not a huge RHCP fan, but I've always loved Snow and that riff in particular.\n\nAlso, the video is great. It really captures the excitement of not just a live performance, but the whole experience of \"going to a show,\" and how music can bring us together.", "That’s a cool little tidbit about the process of getting to that riff.", "Wait he's back?!?!?! I stopped caring about the peppers when he left.", "In case anyone wants to get on him for comparing it to Hendrix because \"it's not as hard as Hendrix's stuff\" or something stupid like that, just know that playing the Snow riff is not the hard part. Playing the Snow riff for 4 minutes straight is the hard part.", "I just looked up a tutorial video and I It looses me watching the fingers.", "Fuck yea he is. Be thankful that you'll only have to wait a few months to hear new music! It's been a long two years for me since they announced he was back.", "He’s back, happened right before covid. They are touring and doing an album in 2022.", "It's an just an arpeggio w hammer of 4 or 5 chords you can strum til you get the pattern. Start with x-6-6-4, then just change one finger to x-7-6-4, then move up a string 7-6-4, then either down to 5-4-2 or up to something like x-9-8-6 from memory.", "When I was learning how to play this I watch old Fruciante videos and tried to mimic his fingering. Just know he only issues his 1,2,3rd fingers but I found it easier to also use the pinky. John always likes to use the bare minimum of fingers so he can add embellishments with his pinky. It’s really difficult.", "So basically picking all of the notes in the chord instead of strumming them. It's a cool riff though.", "[Kinda relevant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_aW25wZ4Bc). Johnny Marr is a human metronome.", "Both Frusiciante and Navarro were excellent at incorporating Hendrix's style into their playing.", "ive been practicing this riff on and off not seriously for years, and im only up to about 80% speed with consistency. however, the other day i was playing it and my wife looked up surprised like \"is that it?\"", "What made Hendrix Hendrix wasn't the way he played, it was the way he thought.\n\nHendrix bought a new fangled device called the Wah Wah pedal. He took it into a studio and a couple of hours laters \"Voodoo Child\" was on tape.\n\nThat's the genius part. The actual playing can be done by most competent guitar players.", "Such an underrated guitarists.", "I'd say he's an underrated guitar composer... one of the greatest of all time. His riffs and tones were innovative and crisp, and very emotionally evocative." ]	19	videos	John Frusciante plays "Snow"
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rpnyh3/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rpnyh3/deleted_by_user/	[ "Its le maxo", "Was it an unusual result... or a completely predictable result?", "Up until that point nobody had inbred that far\n\n\na single black shrunken testicle is not normal outside of like frost bite", "It should be mentioned that this isn't a \"habit\" so much as the result of European marriage politics and laws limiting how crowns were passed down between generations.\n\nThe Salic Law which excluded women from inheriting thrones, fiefs and other properties, is a great example and pretty much led to the Hundred Years War as Edward III laid claim to the French Crown through his maternal line (Isabella of France, who was the daughter of Philip IV Le Bel of France).\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salic_law\n\nThe big trouble faced by the Habsburg - and other families - was that feudal laws caused lands to be split over and over again among heirs, and the main ways to reunite them was either marriage (dowry) or through armed conflict.\n\n\n\n.", "[Salic law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salic_law) \n \n >The Salic law ( or ; Latin: Lex salica), also called the Salian law, was the ancient Frankish civil law code compiled around AD 500 by the first Frankish King, Clovis. The written text is in Latin and contains some of the earliest known instances of Old Dutch. It remained the basis of Frankish law throughout the early Medieval period, and influenced future European legal systems. The best-known tenet of the old law is the principle of exclusion of women from inheritance of thrones, fiefs and other property.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Your first point isn't even close to true, though. I mean, ancient Zoroastrian nobility even [considered inbreeding sacred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xwedodah).", "[Xwedodah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xwedodah) \n \n >Xwedodah (Persian: خویدوده; khwēdōdah; xᵛae¯tuuadaθa) is a spiritually-influenced style of consanguine marriage assumed to have been historically practiced in Zoroastrianism before the Muslim conquest of Persia. Such marriages are recorded as having been inspired by Zoroastrian cosmogony and considered pious though little academic and religious consensus has been established as to the extent of the practice of Xwedodah outside of the aristocracy and clergy of the Sasanian Empire. In modern Zoroastrianism it is near non-existent, having been noted to have disappeared as an extant practice by the 11th century AD.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)" ]	7	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/Y-Ntv68F5to	/r/videos/comments/rpopqh/a_taxi_drivers_car_catches_on_fire_so_strangers/	[ "This is such a great idea! If only there was some way we could do this for everyone, a way we could pool our resources, just a small amount of money from everyone so that someone could get their car back after an accident. To ensure they will always be ok... we could call it... ensurance.", "Very nice of them!\n\nI'm just curious why the driver couldn't unlock the door before pulling the patient out, instead of breaking the window. Maybe the flames were spreading so fast he didn't have the time to unlock so he chose the faster method? That would make sense, since gasoline fire is not a joke, it spreads very fast and the heat melts everything around it very fast, even at a distance.", "Sounds like socialism to me /s", "Woof, what a hottie.", "For some context: this happened in Mosul a few months back, it was just local news. However I think it really reflects on Mosuli culture and hospitality, something so great yet completely unknown to the outside world. A hidden gem. So here's this gem translated. \n\nMost people only know the city due to war and destruction, so let it be known even in the rubble of war humanity exists.", "It does look a tad like an impromptu toll road.\n\nMaybe something people there are used to though. Seeing that where I live would be locked doors and windows up.", "Sounds like gambling and I don't like it. What if I never need it and the house just gets to keep it all?", "this is a nice sentiment, thx for sharing.", "the car?", "So wholesome! I love it when I hear news of communities coming together to help out.", "Do you mean the taxi driver, or the first guy talking about collecting donations?", "I mean you didn't have to pay. But yeah it did slow down traffic, although I remember you only had to slow down a bit so it was more like a 5 second delay to pass through. Most people were sympathetic though so it doesn't really matter.", "Sometimes you have to make your own luck wink.", "I know your comment was sarcastic, but a lot of countries have actually solved this by simply requiring the insurance companies to invest a portion of the overage, and then give the rest back to the customers. Most provinces in Canada had to give back a rebate after 2020 because so few people were driving.", "Better than insurance.", "I love people sometimes, they really do good things.", "Some charity collections are generally the precursor for a non-profit insurance. (Non-profit is key here) \n\nThink about funeral costs. \n\nThere can still be a charity collection or organization for a poor dead tourists burial for example. Even with the existence of such a insurance. \n\n---------\n\nThink about stuff like obligated health insurance that everyone is legally obligated to pay for, and for which everyone is insured. \n\nThen think of countries where that is not the case.", "Things go differently in different places.", "Driver's kind of handsome ngl.", "Insurance: the bet you hope you lose.", "Plot Twist: It Wasn't His car", "There's also the guy at the beginning of video wearing all white clothes standing beside the burned taxi. I guess helpful Mosuli's are very handsome!", "This is beautiful. Thanks for posting.", "He saved the passenger who had a hip problem. that alone makes it deserving", "Hey, no dogcalling", "probably ban you at the same time.", "For those pondering, Mosul is in Iraq.", "If only the wealthy would share this mentality", "i'm so glad people like this exist... because a world full of cynical and untrusting people like me would be miserable.", "People love vilifying \"the other\". Are there differences in cultures that make understanding each other difficult? Absolutely. But then you see things like this and your defenses drop and you realize that at the end of the day, the vast majority of us want things to be better for each other. That during despair, we come together to support those that need it the most.\n\nThanks so much for sharing.", "So he wasn't just driving a car that was unfit to be on the road?", "insurance putting patients first = socialism\n\ninsurance putting shareholders first = capitalism", "Also in addition to what the other comment said, the US has similar laws at least in some states. I know for sure NJ requires a minimum of 80% of health insurance premiums to be spent on healthcare. If not the insurer mails policy holders a refund check for the difference.", "Could've been. Considering it seems that he just bought the car it's most likely it was either used or he was scammed, or maybe he was just really unlucky. Not that it's very unusual for people to drive old or rundown cars in Iraq.", "Instead of life insurance I want everyone at the hospital to throw quarters at me until I perish", "r/HumansBeingBros", "then they wouldn't be wealthy anymore. but i see what you mean.", "I guess mine aren't part of the most. I didn't get back a dime with either of my insurance companies.", "As the legend himself Mr. Rodgers said, \"Look for the helpers.\"", "Change happens at THIS level. Not like some people tend to think. Most people now days try to take on giant change. When in reality it’s this local change in attitude that makes a difference.", " these electric cars keep burning up like crazy", "People just casually making the government obsolete with legit altruism", "To be serious tho, the issue is that poor people need to avoid losing money in any ways possible, sometimes putting themselves at risk. You can see it in the likes of the US, where people are forced to avoid seeking medical insurance (and thus needed medical treatments) as they can't afford it.", "It's just too bad nobody tried to put out the fire, it's still burning today.", "I enjoyed this line. \"The people of Mosul didn't falter with me near or far.\"", "It exists - google Takaful", "See this is an actual feel good story. No systemic problem is having to be corrected by the public. Just a guy in need through no ones fault being helped by his community. You love to see it.,", "I think that trade off would be more than fair.", "Yeah but Canada's auto insurance is government run", "A shakedown and a donation aren't the same thing. \n\nBut hopefully most of the people giving were doing so out of their own free will and not feeling threatened.", ">No systemic problem is having to be corrected by the public. Just a guy in need through no ones fault being helped by his community. \n\nWhy do you imagine there's a difference between \"the public\" and \"his community\"?", "How beautiful a people. Sharing is caring", "This is basically the idea of what insurance should be. If it were not a shoddy scam run by middlemen who try to profit themselves.", "there's not. the focus was on the difference in \nwhy the public/community were coming together for someone not that those two things were different.", "It depends on the province, in Alberta insurance is done by companies.", "Imagine a world without insurance.", "Man there's a lot of veterans on Reddit.\n\n I think the most helpful way to contribute is to work in a humanitarian org in Mosul, or perhaps to work as an English teacher for cheap since the English of the average Mosuli is pretty bad. Obviously a military role wouldn't help, and donations most likely won't go through since they often get siphoned by corrupt politicians etc.", "> need to avoid losing money in any ways possible\n\nSounds like they need insurance more, not less", "Of course not. They needed it to pay their insurance.", "Muslims and Muslim nations are usually way more charitable to begin with.", "Yeah that's a big factor in the city's generousity.", "Helps to realize what makes one's self \"the other\" to people as well, definitely allows one to recontextualize things taken for granted.", "\"...You will always find people who are helping\"", "I feel like that Taxi driver is evidence that Matt Damon has been close to the people of Mosul, too.", "Buying insurance - loss happens immediately and frequently, ie: losing money in real terms\n\nNot buying insurance and hoping nothing goes wrong - loss doesn't happen immediately, may never: ie financially better off in the short term. \n\nWhen you're on the poverty line you can't afford to buy insurance, to have the real loss, so you just hope nothing goes wrong.", "Brb, gonna go set my car on fire.", "Not really. I'd love to have my car get hit in a minor accident so that I can pocket the aesthetic damage money.", "Thanks for sharing.\n\nDuring the recent protests in Sudan, people did similar things when cars were damaged from teargas canisters.\n\nIt’s hard to explain to people the culture of hospitality that’s present in countries like Iraq, Sudan, Yemen etc. \n\nI got coffee from a lady with a small stall in Khartoum and spilled it all over my shirt. She asked me for the shirt, cleaned it in a wash basin, hung up to dry and told me to come back in an hour. She wouldn’t accept my money when I tried to pay her.", "Absolutely! I want to understand what causes others from around the world to \"hate my existence\". What is it about western culture that eastern cultures hate and vice versa? How can we as a global society bridge those gaps and increase appreciation for how we all live? Compassion, i feel is the answer to these questions.", "Agreed. For everything one might find alien about some one, there's an equal part of them that's alien to another.", "This person gets it. We're friends now.", "This is my cue to say something sarcastic and potentially sour the entire interaction.\n\nThis is also why people don't like me.", "You're dealing with someone who enjoys all manner of humor and attempts to stay positive despite being somewhat nihilistic. Fire away! Your efforts to resist friendship will only fuel my resistance of your resistance!", "You mean Muslim Channing Tatum?\n\nDude's just hanging out waiting to be discovered.", "I don't think it's effort at this point, more of a reflex.\n\nGlad you didn't instantly balk at my humor though.", "Yeah and we have the absolutely worst rates in the country.", "Everyone needs healthcare. Everyone also needs to eat, have a home etc. too. When those things are put in conflict, people are forced to prioritise. For someone poor, if you have to feel your kids, you may be forced to avoid paying for medical insurance and you just hope nothing goes wrong. Only countries that hate poor people and think that rights should be protected only if you have sufficient wealth permit these kinds of situations.", "Looks like wealth redistribution to me.....he should post this on r/antiwork and New York cabbies will be all over it......", "r/HumansBeingBros", "Honestly, from one internet stranger to another, i sincerely hope that whatever caused that to become a reflex for you gets remedied. Granted, you've probably learned to live with it and work around it, but you seem to have valuable perspectives that people should appreciate and want to hear. Not trying to psychoanalyze or anything but i genuinely love people and want people to realize their full value and potential(not suggesting you don't).\n\nIf you ever need to unload some shit on an internet stranger just to feel better, feel free to DM me.", "My neighbours from Mosul have never given me Mosul kibbeh, which I have heard so much about. Mosul Iraqi are bad people /s\n\n(The wife in the family makes the best taboulleh so I’m good)", "Thanks, I appreciate that.\n\nI think it's a mix of external ableism, going unaware of my neurodivergence my whole life, and being jaded towards the idea of attaining fulfilling interactions. That combination tends to stew into a pretty dour demeanor.", "Yes the solution to bridge the gap is very much dialogue and compassion! I think conflict between the two boils down to the west seeing us as dogmatic and violent because we don't assimilate nor respect western laws and values, while we see them as hypocritical, cunning, and materialistic because of the constant coups and interventionism thinly veiled as for a greater good or whatnot when it's clearly for national/economic interests.\n\nAnother issue is generalisation: just like ppl in the west sometimes group all of the east as one monolith, people here also do the same with the west, painting all of it as colonial powers and America. \n\nI think the solution is for both sides to respect each other's sovereignty. That means the west stops with the interventionism and easterners respect the laws and values of the west in western countries. \n\nOnce this happens we can start to heal all the wounds of the past and build a relationship based on cooperation and respect.", "5 years ago and ISIS was in charge. Time flies...", "That last one(attaining fulfilling interactions) can definitely be remedied by focusing energy on appreciating the things that you do well. Society might see neurodivergence as abnormal and whatnot, but that doesn't have to be reality. Just ignorant perspectives providing animosity to make themselves feel better about the pitfalls in their own lives. We all suffer under this existence to varying degrees. Some people choose to internalize that pain and work through it and others cast that pain onto others in the hopes that it alleviates their own miseries. It's that idea of \"hurt people hurt people\". As cliche as it sounds, it's very real.\n\nI'm no therapist, but at the end of the day, we all just want to be heard and appreciated for who we are. I've got a few nd friends(to some extent we're all ND in some manner, imo). I appreciate this interaction with you, my friend.", "I've appreciated it too.\n\nI want to say though, for the future, do you really feel \"we're all ND in some manner?\" I find that sentiment minimizes the struggles of people like me because it tends to steer the conversation towards what I can do for them as a neurotypical person, rather than what accommodations could be made for neurodivergent people in a neurotypical world. It makes me feel like the effort I put in for neurotypical or alltisic people goes unappreciated or unnoticed, which leads to me going into autistic burnout for a period. \n\nIt's similar to when people tell me \"I don't look autistic\" and mean it as a compliment, it hurts and reminds me that the world isn't built for people like me. It means, to me, they won't see my support needs as valid because I can manage basic hygiene/am conventionally attractive/wear \"normal\" clothes etc.", "Very much agree. I made friends with an Iranian man and his wife who had become citizens of the US. I worked with him. I would ask him about Iranian culture all the time. He suggested that Iran is actually quite a bit similar to the United States but just in different directions and would often talk about the beauty of the country. He was very appreciative to have become a citizen of the US but definitely had a lot of love for his former country. Was always great to gain his perspective.\n\nAnd from my side of the world(Texas), as much as it matters, I'm sorry for my country always feeling the need to intervene in everything without appreciating the scope of the situation. It's frustrating to watch it all play out with such disregard for what those actions do to the culture and the families of those living there. We're so isolationist that we rarely ever have to face repercussions for what we do on other lands.\n\nNo one person is full representation of an identity. Monoliths be damned. Thanks for spreading awareness and perspective, my friend.", "I only mean that \"we're all ND to some degree\" to suggest that it's like a potentiometer or analog dial. On a scale from 1 to 10. My understanding of ND is that it's not strictly about autism but also incorporates ADD/ADHD and things of that nature. Maybe my understanding is flawed(and if so, I'm always open to learning and being enlightened). My philosophy would be that if we all recognized that neurotypical is a myth and that normal is a social construct not rooted in scientific reality, then maybe varying degrees of nd could become further destigmatized. But again I'm no therapist. I just try to appreciate all humanity has to offer.", "I get what you're saying 100% by the way and in no way want to negate your struggle. Most of my postulating is me just trying to understand my own thoughts based on the perspectives of others.", "To me it boils down to how often one's needs can be assumed vs. needing to be communicated and then filtered by assumptions. My needs go unnoticed unless they're communicated and then I'm considered \"fickle\" or \"whiny\" because it's not part of the standard bucket of needs.\n\nADD/ADHD is part of the neurodivergence spectrum, yes, but it is often, but not always, found in autistic people as well and the support needs are different.\n\nAnyway, I'm sure this is unpleasant for you so thanks for giving me a positive interaction today, hope the rest of your day goes well.", "\"He made more than the car's worth\" One would have to imagine a burning car wouldn't be worth all that much tbh", "Not unpleasant for me in the slightest. I enjoy learning from people who experience life different from my own perspective. I don't have all the answers and never will, but if i can gain understanding, it's a beautiful thing. Thanks for sharing with me. I genuinely and sincerely appreciated this interaction. Hope you have a great day as well :) you're good people.", "What if he purposely set the car on fire so he didn't have to drive a cab anymore?", "Voluntary pooling of resources is based and capitalist af.\n\nThe only thing that nudges American car insurance in the direction of socialism is the fact that it's mandatory.", "That's a very heartwarming story, it's true that America and the middle east actually share quite a bit more than meets the eye (maybe cuz America is kinda religious?) for example Americans are quite social like us but unlike Europeans.\n\nYou don't have to apologize for other people's actions, you disagree with America's foreign policy but can't do anything to stop it, so you're free from blame.\n\nAnd np, friend. Wish you the best.", "I love how the person who posted the video’s profile pic is Myla", "There's a lot of people here with these same thoughts. Might even be in the majority, but unfortunately our leadership cares not about our pleading but about the profits to be had from perpetual war mongering. Best wishes to you as well.", "I still can't believe team cherry did this to her 😭\n\nShe was definitely my favorite character", "Same 😭 used to periodically come and see her but she slowly degenerates into an infected ;-;", "Maybe one day when you're worthy enough you'll get to try the legendary secret Maslawi formula for kibbeh!", "Indeed most Arab and Muslim countries have a culture of hospitality and altruism that can't be explained well, only shown. \n\nSudan feels very similar to Iraq in general, our protests were also pretty altruistic. My heart and prayers go to the sudanese people, inshallah you'll break the cycle of coups and overthrow the regime.\n\nOne struggle against corruption and tyranny! 🇮🇶🇸🇩✌️", "Thanks again for sharing this and for the kind words. \n\nInshallah the people of the Middle East and North Africa get the freedom, dignity, and opportunity they so deserve 🙏🏽", "Inshallah!", "Live action Go Fund Me while everyone forgetting the fact that Women are still considered nothing there.\n\nWomen are 50% of the population and DOUBLE the amount illiterate. \n\nBut hey, feel good story, right?", "I just went over there and the very top post was from Sariel. You were absolutely spot on!", "I feel like Ontario rates could give them a run.", "aCsHuAlY iTs StAkEhOlDeRs!!!! /s\n\n\nsorry, genuinely frustrating hearing corporate drivel day-in, day-out.", "I live in Ontario, people do this in small towns around here all the time. Usually people will slow down and give them the change in their cup holder.", "This is what Arnold Schwarzenegger was saying at that graduation speech about helping out.", "I don’t understand this reference. Who is Sariel?", "I think you're mis-attributing this quote. It was not Mr. Aaron Rodgers, I believe it was in fact Mr. Roy Rogers.", "I read this the first time as \"Taxi driver catches on fire so strangers stop and collect donations for him\" and I was like, wait, why aren't they helping him while he's on fire?", "Folks from Mosul where the first ones to give up their neighbors to ISIS for being Assyrian Christian. They can pretend they have humanity but we have not forgotten who they really are.", "Wild. I just know Manitoba had autopac", "Likely a mod, and karma whoring one from the sound of it.", "Naw, they got booted from the office they were running MicroSoft Support scams from, so they found a car on the side of the road to using in their new \"Donation\" scam..\n\nI was wondering why I have been getting less calls from them..", "Dad, go to bed.", "If only there was some way to learn about other parts of the world before judging them. Like a place you could search things and realize other places are different. Such as Iraq does not have car insurance. They should call it google.", "Arab men are so fine.", "Magic Mohammed", "LPT: Burn your car to get a better one on the side of the highway.", "You must be fun at parties.", "That's so nice.", "Some act of kindness.", "And was under ISIS control from June 2014 to July 2017, during which a ton of the city was destroyed.", "Hmmm…….so if I do this a multiple times all over the places I can make some cheddar….", "It's crazy to think that you could challenge any town in America to do this same kind of care and hospitality, and there's a 90% that it would never happen.", "Oh this isn't a scam. Hey y'all I know a prince in Nigeria that needs some help", "Mosul seen some shit but they still try to do right.", "This kind of ignores how insurance works.\n\nEven with insurance you still lose money. Most plans have a deductible attached. So really it might come down to if you want to pay $100 a month for the privilege of owing 5k instead of 10k. All while you only got 1k anyway.", "A million/billionaire regularly donating small amounts of money to help those in need isn't going to make a dent in their vast wealth.", "Faith in humanity restored", "It's also very important that we be aware of those who will intentionally try to manipulate us into hating a group of people, almost always in order to convince you to give them more power. And if those people insist that \"the other\" is irredeemable, than you are on the slippery slope to war\|violence\|death.", "No insurance in Mosul huh? You wouldn't be allowed to drive without insurance in most countries", "> were doing so out of their own free will and not feeling threatened\n\nI would think if bribes are common place in a country people may just be prepared to provide some money to move on their way assuming that is why they are being stopped.\n\nWas someone explaining it was a \"donation\"?", "What a strange thing to be maniacle about. A frigin subreddit. Wild…", "Brb setting my car on fire", "This is nice of them… but if you’re standing in the middle of the road creating a traffic jam, I’m not giving you shit.", "According to UNESCO, in Iraq 10% of males are illiterate, 20% of females are illiterate. Apparently this means 100% of women live like 1984??? Reddit.com moment", "I need to know if you meant he made more than the value of the car pre fire or post fire", "It’s important to note there’s no women in this entire video. Before everyone here starts circlejerking for Iraq.", "All that porn on your browsing history. Maybe worry about those around you and how they view women before dumb shit like that.", "Not the person you were replying to, but this interaction was heartwarming. Thanks for being a good person. Keep doing you, and I hope the universe returns all the positivity you put out.", "Dumb shit like women being allowed to drive cars? Or be in public without a man?", "It's Iraq. Not Saudi Arabia. \n\nYour initial dumb comment showed your ignorance already. This one adds to it.", "Is /r/wholesomememes toxic?\n\n\nI just know it feels fake and the content is low effort and not even relevant to the name. It can hardly be called memes.", "Women are allowed to drive now in Saudia Arabia. And your initial dumb response was to demonize consensual sex work. So not only are you ignorant, but also a moron and a douchebag.", "Well yes they're too busy going to work or school to stop for this dude.", "So I bet you're teaching your kids it's okay to get into porn as a valid career choice? Give them tips to apply? \n\nParent of the year right here 😂😂😂\n\nPorn is mostly preying on women for the pleasure of pervs like yourself.", "Dw it didn't create much of a traffic jam, otherwise the police would've made them stop.", "Oh jeez, is that true? You better tell the millions of women on OnlyFans, plus all the amateur posters on Reddit, that they're being preyed upon. Preyed, I say!!\n\nFace it. You're not a better person by being anti-sex-work, you're just a tool. Nor are you any champion of women's rights.", "They did say that it is a donation. If people felt that it was extortion they would've reported to the police.", "Press X to doubt.\n\nX", "Any time people are standing in the middle of the road, it’s going to make drivers slow down…. Which creates a traffic jam… as witnessed in the video.", "Yeah, although I was moreso thinking that traffic jam = road blocked for several minutes.", "I saw a steady flow of cars. What's the timestamp where cars are backed up?", "Most moderators are socially handicapped people whose only source of dopamine is them feeling they are in control on a subreddit. It's really sad. But let's be honest - it takes a special kind of fellow to want to be a moderator for free.\n\n... Of course not the video moderators ;-)", "Don't they have insurance in that country?", "1:17\n\nReducing traffic to a crawl because people are in the road inevitably causes a traffic jam. Yes, cars are moving quickly AFTER the traffic jam, because they have just been held up for miles.\n\nHow is this confusing?\n\nAre you saying that pedestrians begging for money on a highway doesn’t slow traffic down to a crawl?", "Having people stand in the middle of a road will cause several minutes of delay. Going from 50-70mph to 0 is dangerous and shitty", "you are right", "There is a steady stream of cars at your 1:17 time stamp. One car briefly slows to donate money and the cars behind continue to flow.\n\nHow is this confusing? Because it runs counter to what you expect should happen, I suppose. There's no traffic jam anywhere in the video.", "Nice business", "on top of being a landfill of sadistic, boss-worshipping perseverance porn for petty bourgeois shitheads, that subreddit is probably in the running for most repulsive fucking rats' nest on the site, at least since they mopped up most the literal neonazi subreddits", "Most moms would be choose no driving ever again if it meant their daughters would not spread their legs for strangers. \n\nYou'd be glad your daughter is a hooker because she bought you a Gucci bag 😂", "I'm curious, is car insurance not a thing in this country?", "> I'd love to have my car get hit in a minor accident so that I can pocket the aesthetic damage money.\n\nThat's literally their point.", "This is comment also kinda sad. A lot of mods also do it because they actually like the feeling of helping and fostering a community they enjoy. Easy to shit on them but this site would be 100x worse without all the good mods which outweigh the bad heavily. \n\n\nDon't mod any sub btw it's just annoying to see someone being so bitter towards the people that give their finite time to make our experience better.", "What brand was the car?", "This just makes me love everyone so much more!", "First, it's \"catches fire\" not \"catches on fire\". Second, why does he need donations from strangers? Was he driving people around without insurance?", "I think history would be most of the problem. heh", "Nek minnit, everybody out on that road setting their cars on fire..", "sus", "the website moderates itself, bad posts and comments get downvoted and good content gets upvoted\n\nedit: People who downvote me should read the Reddiquette. \n\nhttps://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439", "we get it, you are a misogynist, move on.", "I mean it's a failed state, you expect them to have insurance?", "Lol that’s cute of you to think this", "you underestimate people, also people in America would have insurance.", "it's a failed state, you expect people to have insurance?", "Good point actually, swings it even more towards not buying it", "i doubt there's any electric cars in Iraq", "Exactly", ">it's a failed state\n\nSo just the usual product of American interventions abroad?", "This is hilarious lol", "Where did you find out that he \"made more than the car's worth in donations by the end of the day.\"? Doesn't mention anything like that in the video. \n\n\nSounds like some bs that you made up, classic reddit.", "Heartwarming video - but i hate that there are no women to be seen for 2:50 minutes. :(", "Iraq does have insurance, but this person didn't have it. I don't think most people have insurance.", "how so?", "why do you disagree?", "From subsequent Facebook posts about the situation. This was filmed in the middle of the day so ofc they wouldn't know how much they'd have at the end of the day. I was planning to add screenies of the fb posts at the end but I was in a hurry while translating, and the addition just felt unnecessary really.", "Don't complain about downvotes, bro, it's just the website moderating itself.", "But it isn't required by the government?", "if you view by new, upvotes and downvotes don't do anything. Spam, completely off topic content, will never be removed. the voting system only goes so far and does nothing to address content that genuinely needs to be removed from a sub.", "Nope.", "Hard to tell. In the case of a house, you don't want it to burn down. You'd rather not have to use it. For your body, you don't want to get hospitalized. For a brand new car, you don't want it wrecked.", "Smoking on the hood of your car that just burned down. 10/10 for the dismount\n\nhttps://youtu.be/Y-Ntv68F5to?t=42", "Isn't that sort of proving his point though", "I agree regarding moderators of small subreddits. But moderators for large subreddits? Not true in the slightest.", "In theory the voting system should be enough but in practice many subs end up losing their focus or being overrun with spam bots if they aren’t moderated effectively.", "You happy with young women selling their bodies and I'm the misogynist? \n\nEquality does not mean ignore facts about how men and women are different. \n\nJust like I wouldn't want my son to subscribe to only fans. I wouldn't want my daughter to show her tits for money. That's how most of us in the real world think. \n\nIf yours do, you failed as a parent.", "yikes", "im not complaining, bro.\n\nIm just supplying a link with information on what the downvote button is used for.", "I don't agree with that. There are definitely some scummy moderators but loads of subreddits have flourished thanks to the work of mods to get them up and running. I'd say most moderators are good folks driven by a desire to get their subreddit on the map, and it's only a handful that are socially handicapped or control freaks.", "You're overestimating how willing insurance companies are to follow through on their promises to cover people." ]	199	videos	A taxi driver's car catches on fire, so strangers stop by and start collecting donations for him. He made more than the car's worth in donations by the end of the day.
https://youtu.be/pocXC6KQEwQ	/r/videos/comments/rpp5io/my_wipeout_captured_on_ring_camera_thats_an_xbox/	[ "Kudos for owning up to it. I would have gone full Shaggy. It wasn’t me!", "Not the crack I was expecting.", "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", "Well at least it wasn’t an X", "Does it still work????", "If only I could have found one T\\_T", "It DOES", "#blessed", "The dogs barking really sold it, glad you and the present survived!" ]	9	videos	My wipeout captured on Ring camera. That's an XBox Series S in my hands... Beware of crack.
https://youtu.be/RbXfGwhrGjI	/r/videos/comments/rpphdo/the_rise_of_the_robotic_working_dog/	[ "\"Lumos never gets bored & doesn't need breaks. Though it does need to recharge after 90 minutes of operation.\"\n\nSo it regularly stops work to rest & eat? Sounds an awful lot like a break...", "poor guy at 5:50 explaining exactly why he will most likely be laid off soon.", "People protesting AI and autonomous robots need to stop and educate themselves because to anyone who knows anything about AI they sound like lunatic cult swearing earth is flat.", "Really weird to see people downvoting this post. Do they not use ATMs? The Automated Teller Machine hasn't completely replaced bank tellers, eh? We use it all the time too." ]	4	videos	The Rise Of The Robotic Working Dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k0QR2LRqJU	/r/videos/comments/rpq95k/season_15_spoilers_its_always_sunny_in/	[ "First time its always sunny has made me cry and Ive watched the earlier seasons mannnnyyy times through. Guess its time to watch 10+ for me.", "This really deserves the recognition. Ireland has been my favorite arc from It’s Always Sunny ever, and this moment was so fucking good.", "I feel like Mac's dance was pretty moving too.", "What episode should I watch to get this? Or is it an entire season?", "Get what?", "Whatever this video and story line that is being referred to.", "his mom’s a prostitute and he was molested by his uncle", "And plus he didn’t wear blackface in this episode", "Always Sunny has proved it can really do these sweet tender moments (like when Charlie meets his Dad Shelly). Between this and the Mac interpretive dance it’s crazy how these can live up there with some of the best TV drama moments. Like this show about a bunch of assholes somehow manages to be touching and really brave.", "You’d really need to watch the show or at the very least this year’s season. To “get” it you have to understand the characters history. It’s also unique because the show often goes out of its way to have these types of moments.", "Yea that was shockingly good and touching.", "Not sure but I think it has the episode name in there = )." ]	12	videos	[Season 15 Spoilers] It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - Charlie and the Hill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR_6_x0Nb9w	/r/videos/comments/rpqeep/star_wars_behind_the_green_screen/	[ "Amazing what CGI can do with the raw stunt footage from [5:58](https://youtu.be/uR_6_x0Nb9w?t=358)!", "It was fascinating to watch it all come together at the end!", "They may have gone a bit too far in some places, but it's stylistically designed to be that way." ]	3	videos	Star Wars: Behind the Green Screen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06VU4OT7ps	/r/videos/comments/rpqsd2/its_time_to_laugh_with_cats_and_kittens/	[ "time to mildly abuse animals. leave sound off if you value your sanity.", "BURN", "Fuck this." ]	3	videos	It's time to LAUGH with CATS and KITTENS
https://youtu.be/DGf1UohY--Y	/r/videos/comments/rpqwos/cello_strings_on_a_bass_sounds_unbelievable/	[ "That’s badass! I can honestly say I’ve never heard something like that before. Sounded real blissful.", "seems like a good player sounds unbelievable. without the same melody played on bass strings, we'll never know if it's the strings, or more likely that the player is awesome.", "Makes it sound unbeliveable due to the reverb on that thing being at 11. Good playing nonetheless, although this style of playing is really popular on Instagram and YouTube, kind of seen already.", "Sounded like bass strings.", "Flawless point, go ahead and upload your rebuttal video where you play it on bass strings. Can’t wait for the results.", "To the untrained ear maybe. But a skilled musician will tell you that it sounded like bass strings with a lot of reverb.", "Check out his other videos. He's not some one trick tiktok player. He's legitimately one of the best bassist in the world.", "What is the key difference between the cello strings vs standard round wound bass strings? Just the synthetic core?\n\nI play guitar, and know my way around flat/round wounds and hex/round core, and have many a discussion with fellow musicians who play bass on who makes the best, EB vs Elixir vs GHS etc.", "Yep cellist here. Sounds like my cello when i crank it through my pickup. Mids are way to high though I would turn up bass levels.", "Hey :) it’s all two of us. We should have a convention!", "That’s not the point. The playing is amazing. I don’t think anyone is arguing that. But the title is implying the strings make it sound good.", "Lol", "They do sound pretty cool. Sounds like they don't sustain as well but have a more harmonically rich attack?\n\nWould like to hear them with a bit of crunch.", "With a quick check he seems to play a lot of tapping and slapping for meme videos, I'd be more interested in hearing how he sounds with a band or how he would fit his style of playing in a song. Without that, I'd be hard to rank him as the best bassist in the world.", "I've found that's it's always last gasp when someone asks for a rebuttal video. You don't need a video to have a point.", "The bassist's whole job is to tie the band together, and crazy tapping fills aren't how that's done. They're fun to play and listen to, but it's not what makes the \"best bassist ever\".", "Any one know the name of this song? I now it’s classical but I can’t remeber the name. Help im dumb", "Yeah, I agree completely. Although I cannot blame the guy if he plays popular style at the moment to get his bills paid. Hell, I'd make these kinds of videos too if I had the talent", "How does that even work? Without the metal on the strings the pickups won't do anything.", "No. What he played was amazing, but the fact they were cello strings and not bass strings felt pretty irrelevant. You dumb shit.", "I wonder what’d sound like on a fretless…", "Unbelievable!!", ">\tTraditional cello strings were made from catgut (actually sheep gut), but most modern strings are made from metal alloys.", "They're essentially tapewound bass strings that are tuned up a 5th", "Debussy - Clair de Lune", "Its a mashup of different classical themes actually. There's some Claire de Lune (Debussy) theme, as well as some Beethoven I think, but neither are note for note.", ">The bassist's whole job is to tie the band together\n\nNot always. Charles is actually a solo bassist. Then you have people like Thundercat where the bass is the lead instrument, and he plays the melody pretty often when he's not singing", "Sounds like bass with not enough bass. Pretty much just sounds like guitar but, more importantly, sounds like something that could just be dialed in through your amp/DAW lol", "He’s phenomenal. Probably the most popular on YouTube rn.", "[He's a soloist](https://youtu.be/Q7J_GzZntRI). He got \"famous\" when Davie504 featured him in a Fiverr video, and Charles embraced the meme and started posting his own memey videos and getting paid. That said, dude is really fucking good but idk where the guy got that he's one of the best in the world unless he's just going off percentiles.", "It's entertainment.", "Darude - Sandstorm", "When I learned guitar in the hate 80s/early 90s, I was surprised at how easy two handed tapping techniques were. They sound really distinctive and complicated to non players, it's funny how I can play something that's kind of difficult in a traditional way and people think nothing of it, then switch to a simple tapping pattern and people think I'm Eddie Van Halen.", "Now that's what I was looking for, thanks for taking the time and linking me to this! Dude is definitely very good and talented, that solo sounds really pleasant.", "More popular than Davie504?", "plus reverb and good playing. I want to hear Runnin With the Devil played on this thing.", "Dude got an insta-subscribe from me, that was tasty!", "That's great, but can he play with or without you by U2?", "He consistently impresses me. This new style of video where you cram as much talent and expression into <60 seconds is cool for me.", "Dunno their subscriber numbers, but yes I’d say he’s equally popular among bassists.", "What’s that melody at around 30 seconds from?", "Davie has 10M subscribers. Charles has 840k.\n\nHowever, the channels aren’t the same. People watch Davie mostly for the memes, while people watch Charles for the music, so among bassists, maybe you have a point.\n\nFWIW, Charles got his start on YouTube after Davie selected him to record challenges on Fiverr.", "I think Davie504 helped give that guy exposure early on. He was on fiver maybe?", "Angry troll! Bad troll! Go to your cage troll!", "TIL", "really good player and committed routine and a nice clickbait title. sounds good too. Cello strings are fucking expensive.", "This guy could string up a bass with day-old spaghetti bolognese and he’d still make it sing.", "Shut up you moron.", "well cellos and bass guitars are the same minus the differences in tuning", "You know what sounds unbelievable? A virtuoso playing ANYTHING on ANYTHING.", "That would have sounded great without cello strings. Wow!", "How does a cellist say hi to another cellist? \n\n\"Cello!\"", "This comment is completely pointless as well.", "No it's not", "These violin delights have violin endings.", "This guy's tap is always so good.", "Amazing", "If you think this sounds amazing, y'all should listen to The Happy Fits. The bassist is a cellist and they're amazing! They're popish, but awesome. \n\nhttps://youtube.com/c/TheHappyFits", "As an untrained musician, I can confirm that it does in fact sound like bass strings.", "Yes it's not", "Yep. I can't say with certainty what songs were played towards the beginning, but it definitely ended in Clair De Lune", "Well this one definitely is.", "Neat.", "I spend an unfortunate amount of time on YouTube and given my (albeit limited) perspective here it's that CharlesBerthoud rose to fame through Davie504. If I recall correctly he's one of the many people that Davie enlisted through Fiver (or similar platforms) to perform and who thereafter continued to deliver content on his own slowly finding his own niche in the YouTube bass community. It's a prime example of the kind of organic growth that's possible on the Internet and reinforced by content creators themselves when they make these kind of videos that showcase the skills of people that aren't big on the platform. Charles took the opportunity when attention was given and made something out of it.\n\nI'd rather entertain the perspective of them as like-minded enthusiast each filling their own niche in this community than portraying and viewing them as competitors comparing and contrasting views and subscribers.", "It’s an opinion whether you think he is “one of the best bassists in the world”. It is subjective.", "Claire de Lune", "I reckon it’s 100% the strings, this guy probably sucks on normal bass strings.", "Does sound great but the dude can also play really well.", "https://i.imgur.com/qAj4GAM.jpeg", "So no actual bass playing?", "Send bass.", "Too bad he plays bass like a knob", "Is that a clair de lune tease at the end", "I was getting some [Claire de Lune](https://youtu.be/WNcsUNKlAKw?t=143) vibes at the end", "cello strings on a bass is just a 4 string guitar. This sounds incredible because that guy is an awesome player. Love his vid", "His face is hardly forgettable enough to be a good bass player. This is obvious when you notice him in the room instead of just seeing an empty room in the video.", "He's got nearly a million subscribers and his videos routinely receive from in the hundreds of thousands to the millions of views.\n\nHe's also a professional touring and studio musician who has played all over the world, collaborated with a slew of musicians, and who conducted well-attended bass clinics.\n\nIf having millions of people watching and enjoying you play, along with touring, teaching and recording, isn't being celebrated as a musician, I'm not sure what is.", "For any acoustic guitar players out there, I recommend using electric guitar strings instead of acoustic. It gives it a clearer sound and makes bends sound way better.", "Will bass strings on a cello sound any different? I guess they're not designed for a bow, so should sound worse.", "You forgot the /s :)", "Some dumb motherfuckers when it comes to music on r/videos. Hey, Dingus Khan, it’s physically impossible to play bass like that otherwise. Bass strings don’t bend like that. Catch a clue, get fucked, go to hell and die, etc.", "Yeah this is what they sound like when I play them too", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_RnlOWmZD4", "I didn't say you were putting him down, nor did I take it that way. Rather, I was trying to point out that your measuring stick is probably a little archaic and outdated, since he is a celebrated musician with a good career in music.\n\nThat he's closely associated with Youtube videos doesn't really change that. It may still seem new and novel to us old timers, but the fact is that Youtube is now a staple, just like radio, television, or whatever else. Weird as it may seem to someone who didn't grow up with it, Youtube stars are stars.\n\nGiven his viewership and the attention his technique has brought him, it's not out of the question that he IS seen as an icon for many aspiring young musicians.", "Bass strings don't bend? \n\nDrink milk. \n\nStrong bones.\n\nBend strings.\n\nSuccess!", "Yeah ppl on Reddit always just gotta argue lol", "...that just sounds like light gauge flatwound bass strings.", "Just sound like flatwound strings, imo.", "You've never heard a traditional bass?\n\nMay I suggest \"Sinister Minister\" by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. Starts with a good bass rip.\n\nNot sure why the downvoted, just trying to help since you've never heard a bass before.\n\nSkip the Doors - no bass player", "Davie504 gave him exposure and they been in a lot Bass battles. Charles is fuckin phenomenal. I suggest checkin his other videos.", "That's kind of a limiting definition. \"Whole job\"? Who says bassists only get to play in bands? I just watched a guy play a very nice solo piece on a bass guitar that seemed to me to be good music unto itself.", "I checked him out as soon as I saw the comment about him being the most popular and I was really impressed. You're right that he is phenomenal.", "Yeah, I thought I recognized him when I saw him, and I first saw him in a Davie video about fiver.\n\nBut he is certainly good enough to deserve a substantial audience imho.", "My bass fell over on hit a tuning peg. Now it’s broken :(", "That's the PRO bassist from the [Davie504 videos.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkepM6uTOv4)", "You're right that he is phenomenal, I checked out some more vids from him.\n\nI thought I recognized him, and he has been in quite a few videos with Davie. His skills are impressive to say the least.", "You had me there for a moment", "Why do they always put in unnecessary amounts of reverb", "Sounds like Stuart Hamm", "That is so beautiful man…", "Uncooked spaghetti strands would sound unbelievable on Charles Berthoud's bass....", "ZanderZon on YouTube has been doing this for over a decade. Interesting to see more people doing it nowadays. Always dug the way it sounded.", "Has anyone seen my dog?", "This guy could make chewed bubble gum strings sound incredible", "Now do John the Fisherman", "The cello strings were torn from the cold dead grip of Ludwig Van Beethoven. The player himself is an average spoons player, and never handled a bass before in his life.", "Sounds like the music from Andy Salvanos playing with the Chapman Stick", "[Enjoy](https://youtu.be/HmO2xqBnceg)", "Oh em gee", "I think bass strings on a cello is an upright bass.", "If I could hear Orion with this kind of tone, I wonder what it'd sound like, especially the little middle interlude.", "Came to watch expecting to be underwhelmed. Wasn’t. Amazing.", "That wouldn't be a safe thing to do. The pressure of tightening thicker bass strings to cello tuning could literally explode the instrument, or at least snap the bridge. It could be a very very expensive mistake.", "it's his style of playing that really sells this", "I was about to flame you so hard.... but you got me, and I commend you for it.", "Some good music, but leaves me wondering why does choice of string matter when it's an electric guitar and you can adjust the output signal or run it through filtering?", "Im so glad I watched this. Holy poo.", "Loved this!", "You guys should take a bow.", "Phenomenal is an understatement. This guy is the bass god.", "You can tell because he's not even using a pick.", "Or on a cello with piano strings!", "He’s davie if he wasn’t funny and only does the tapping thing that’s so popular now with all guitarists. I personally can’t stand the sound of it but it’s undeniably impressive", "Charles is way more than just tapping but it’s OK if you don’t like him", "Think there is something a little more obvious that separates a cello from the bass.", "This is just clickbait lol. Doesn’t sound any different than regular bass strings.", "I came", "R/unexpectedwestworld\n\nAlso Shakespeare, but I like it when Anthony Hopkins says it.", "You also need to set the bass up for the strings. It's not hard, but it isn't just changing the strings. Also, you have to be good at bass and have a nice rig. A great player can make a shitty amp sing, but a bad player sounds better with more oomph. That's why pop punk dudes roll up to the gig with an ampeg 8x.", "You're right, but they're not that different. Cello bodies are a lot smaller, but there are also small upright bass bodies. Cellos also use bows, but upright bass players will also sometimes use a bow.", "I wouldn't say it's unbelievable. It sounds amazing for sure but it's not entirely something that is unique from a well made, well tuned electric bass.", "Wow! That was awesome!", "Seems pretty novel - it’s like bass + juggling", "We aren’t asking the real questions here. \n\nDoes it djent?", "This dudes the bela fleck of bass", "And he is that. He puts out masterpieces constantly like he's picking up a loaf of bread from the store.", "I mean, that dude could make fishing line sound good on a bass", "Not more popular yet, but he is more talented. And Davie504 is really talented.", "Uh, no they don't lol? Like don't get me wrong the guy is talented but if he played that same song with bass strings it would sound better.", "I dono oboe you but I'm done with this thread", "Great playing, but I'm not fan of the tone. I would not want my bass sounding like that.", "Or an uptight bass?", "/r/FuckTheS", "Turn it on its side and cello, it's a bass!", "He’s so much better than Davie504.", "Charles Berthoud has been growing like crazy cause his music is amazing. His bass battle with [zander zon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKQOSnU0zIE) is awesome (zanders video has a funny gag just fyi).", "I love DeBussy", "What is this, 2009? We're doing reply videos again?", "Charles Berthoud is amazing and doesn’t get enough praise. He’s also kinda a goober, but I still like him.", "Because reverb is the go-to easiest way to pave over bad acoustics in a room, or a below par instrument/amp setup, or all of the above.", "But, they don’t need THAT much", "I know I'm just telling you why people do it. Not every musician nerds out about sound engineering or has access to high end equipment and live effects.", "Lol I’m well aware, I’m one of them\nEdit: downvoted for saying I’m a poor musician 👍", "I really like this one.", "You're the dumbest person in this thread. I'm about to look this guy up just to prove you wrong.\n\n[yes You're a real fucking idiot](https://youtu.be/HUIsiou0gj4)\n\n\nhttps://youtu.be/5EI0OP7o8cM\n\nIts been a long time since someone on reddit made me mad. Congrats u stupid fuck.\n\nEdit- Or is this guy joking? God damn. I'm an idiot! Throw a /s in there and downvote me to hell.\n\n[this was me](https://v.redd.it/53dxdr0zrb151)\n\nEdit 2 - there's no way this goes below 10 downvotes.\n\nEdit 3- there is no way this goes below 40 downvotes", "Clair de Lune starts at 0:32 through to the end. Not sure about the rest.", "Incredible", "I think it also helps a bit that this guy is quite talented", "Short for \"Ciao bello!\"", "Upvote for the links, downvote for the edits - perfectly balanced", "I told you that wouldn't go below ten downvotes.", "yeah. it sounds nice and the guy is definitely skilled and talented but this wasn’t unbelievable. i’ve heard better tone from normal strings.", "Oh, I'm on to your editing skill", "I used to to hang around in Neil Peart's neighborhood on garbage day just to listen to him taking out the trash. RIP.", "He was the original \"pro\" on fiverr back when Davie did those\n\nI am subbed to both and YouTube stopped showing me Davie's videos a long time ago. I kind of fell off when he just started doing meme review instead of silently playing bass like the old days.\n\nCharles Berthoud is absolutely ridiculous and an incredibly talented musician. I've loved watching his channel grow. Sometimes the tapping thing is a bit one-trickish if you dare call it that, but I think he does it so much because it helps differentiate his channel", "Wow. You play beautifully. I’m going to go practice now……was that a nod to Debussy at the end? Damn!!!!!", "[https://youtu.be/3NZGbD236fw](https://youtu.be/3NZGbD236fw) I believe these are cello strings/tuning. More interpretive sound maybe though", "The technique they're using is just tapping. It's more common on guitar, but it's the same technique.\n\nFor music similar, you'll find a lot if you look for instrumental midwest emo or instrumental math rock.\n\nHere's a video on the technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2wg0Y92QSc", "Changing strings can modify the output signal in ways that impact all the other changes you make later in the signal path. The strings impact the shape of the signal that you are later modifying.\n\n\nAs a rough analogy, imagine one is a sine wave and one a sawtooth, it's going to color the end result even with filters applied.", "Huh. According to the comments, the sound is apparently very believable.", "Lmfao bruh", "Read some silly shit on here.\n\nA.Charles is the greatest compositional bass player in the world. He is not just technically brilliant the arrangements he does of known songs are god tier. Just listen to the Bach variations part he does over Barbie Girl.\n\nB.This song is Clair de lune by Debussy.\n\nC. He could play a fucking tuna can with a yoyo and still sound virtuosic because he is a fucking virtuoso.\n\nD. Davie504 is a beast and has a far more entertaining youtube channel, but even as beastly as he is, not the level of musician Charles is.", "I was gonna say... if I played that thing it would sound like a monkey banging on a trash can.", "I wouldn't say \"so much better\" than Davie. Davie is really freakin' good as well.", "at least 3 of us (though i am learning). yay!", "Doesn't that depend on the bridge though? You need a much flatter bridge to bow it, otherwise a simple riff would turn into a serious work out.", "I love all of you folk, so beautiful <3 :", "It's a fucking [Debussy derivative](https://youtu.be/WNcsUNKlAKw?t=125) is what it is. \n\nAlso, I guess, entertaining. ⇧", "Chef boy RD", "yes - certainly elements of Claire de Lune", "A harp with kite strings", "Banjo strings on an older shoe", "Seconded. I'm sure he could have played it using rubber bands nailed to a trash can and it'd have sounded great.", "Looks like Santa forgot to bring you a sarcasm detector for Christmas.", "I was hoping his name was Wes Claypool.", "There needs to be an immediate comparison video of the same song play on standard bass strings. I'd be interested to hear the difference. Also, this dude is very talented. Bass guitar has a reputation of being easier to play, but you need some dedication and some finger strength to get to a level like this. Good stuff.", "i under stand this is very technically proficient , to my ears , it sounds like a steaming pile of dog shit", "I think the truth here is that Charles is such an incredible musician he would make cheese strings on a bass sound heavenly.", "They are flatwound. It's like a fretless bass.", "Your dog is pointless.", "He's no Davie503 that's for sure", "[Charles' meme game is underrated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1HHKGlBugA)", "I told you this won't go below 40 downvotes.", "Stop fretting", "I'm assuming you haven't checked out this guy's YouTube channel. He's legit. He doesn't fuck up like that. He doesn't need reverb. He's just a badass.", "She plays the guitar like a harp. Wild.", "You monster. I'll be back to write a textwall after I get some food, you inbred troglodyte.", "I guarantee if you did blind sound tests that even the most trained musician couldn’t tell you the difference.", "That's not true. It's not a comparison video or an argument that \"cello strings are better than bass strings,\" it's just a demonstration of one way you can utilize the distinct character of cello strings on a bass. The point of the video is to show that it sounds amazing. \n\nThat said, there are plenty of videos of this style of tapping on regular bass strings if you want to compare.", "A great way to spend waaay more money and no be able to tell the difference!", "I wouldn't say it either out of respect for both of their awesome musicianship, it's not a contest. But Charles gives me \"wicked sharp Berkeley grad session musician\" vibes, which is a daunting level of mastery.", "I'm a bassist, you most certainly can tell the difference. It could pass for \"some weird ass sounding bass strings,\" sure, I mean people even play nylon bass strings. These are closer to \"typical\" bass strings than those. But there's definitely something a little outside of normal.", "His latest fretless bass solo is definitely a true masterpiece.", "I think this guy has like hundreds of other videos of him playing a normal bass", "No you can’t. I worked in the musical string industry.\n\n[I know its not the same but supports the point Im making](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/violinists-cant-tell-the-difference-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones)", "A mandolin with shoe strings", "As a redditor, it /r/SoundsLikeMusic", "This guy could probably make Slim Jim strings sound like a Stradivarius", "The elitism/gatekeeping in this thread is off the charts.", "r/unexpectedschoolofrock", "Thanks for posting this guy. I just went down the funkiest rabbit hole and the mood for my day is set.", "Wohoo! 50% bigger party! What are you working on learning?", "It’s an easy crowd pleaser, like an actress with big boobs. You don’t need them to do the job, but the audience responds better and it’s easy to find so producers make sure to add them to everything.", "Your link doesn't support your point in any way whatsoever. If you worked in the \"musical string industry,\" just state the similarities and differences. If you matched the materials, gauge, etc. then it would be indistinguishable, like I said you're only hearing \"deviation from typical bass string sound\" since different bass strings can already sound far more weird than these cello strings do. \n\nThe only difference I can think of that would be typical* for cello strings vs. bass strings is in diameter. Typical medium gauge cello strings go from 1.2mm to 4.1mm diameter, whereas typical bass strings go from 1.143mm to 2.54mm.", "Wow.", "Its support because its an example of music “experts” thinking they can hear a difference. \n\nCould could tell very low end vs. high end? Sure. Could you tell anything not on the very ends? No. Could you pick out a specific type of string out of a grouping? No. Could you pick out these cello strings among 5 other bass strings? No chance. Especially if its amped, that makes any difference in strings basically moot.", "What's the first song he plays though? Before 0:32", "Has anyone figured out what the first song is? I know this... it's hurting my brain.", ">Its support because its an example of music “experts” thinking they can hear a difference.\n\nThis is like linking an article that says \"people can be wrong, actually.\" It has no actual relevance to what we're talking about besides people being wrong about their ability to do something.\n\n[The strings in the video](https://i.imgur.com/3CrszEY.jpg) appear to be nickle flat wound strings with an unusually low gauge. You could absolutely find bass strings that sound [pretty much the same](https://youtu.be/5q_IWjhS3N8) (modulo effects, the bass itself, tuning, playing...) All I was really saying is that a trained bassist can distinguish these strings from typical 40-100 nickel round wounds. As from the beginning I noted, these sound more like bass strings than some bass strings.", "Nah dude. They can’t", "mostly Schroeder etudes and some videogame music.", "wait is that clair de lune", "I don't know how proficient in music theory Davie is, but he seems to learn quite complicated stuff just by ear. Which if you can do that, is just as good as any high level music theory knowledge.", "I'm not really talking about music theory, although I'm sure Charles knows plenty. Just playing ability.", "Fantastic! I studied Suzuki method and some borrowed voice arias as my instructor was also a phd in both cello and voice. It wasn’t until I established an ear for the instrument that I was able to play alongside pandora internet radio. Eventually I played electric cello with a metal band and a punk band. Tons of fun and great moments defying the genre. I highly recommend continuing to have a solid foundation in classical music and sheet reading. It will serve you very well. Time spent practicing scales will eventually make all the difference. You have no idea, and from someone who had a lot of unlearning to do, your etudes will carry you very very far. Master the little things and you will learn how to express yourself in an authentic and captivating way.\n\n\nI am so happy for you on the journey that you are on. This was one of the best things that could have been a part of my early life, and I am a better person and have a more fulfilling time of things with music a part of my experiences. Play to enjoy and to grow, and you will be delighted when you are my age I promise.", "I am currently doing the ac black flag theme, did ezios family and dragonborn." ]	227	videos	Cello Strings on a Bass Sounds Unbelievable
https://youtu.be/mMESnEmO9rM	/r/videos/comments/rpr6cn/a_cat_walking_on_snow/	[ "Dont just stand there halp me!", "That poor cat, I feel bad for it. Looks like it’s freezing it’s little paws.", "They probably turned the water supply off inside the house and open the faucet every winter. Alternatively some homes have an outdoor tap with the shut off valve well inside the house (a foot I think) and most homes are now built with these.", "Yeah I’m speaking for Canada 🇨🇦 where most homes are below freezing for 4 months of the year.", "Poor kitty was SOOO relieved to finally get to go inside :-) very pretty kitty.", "OK. Time to snuggle.", "That cat didn't look happy. One of our cats was out in the snow one time, and he hated being out in the snow so much that I saw him walk back to come inside by perfectly placing his paws in the same tracks he made when he walked out.", "Same", "There’s a sub for that:\n\nr/donthelpjustfilm", "> In Texas everyone gets the faucet covers and none of the new houses built by my family members have what you describe.\n\nBased on Texas's track record with preparing for anything colder than 65F, that doesn't surprise me.", "FOR GOD'S SAKE HELP THE CAT", "What snow storm? I see snow but no storm." ]	12	videos	A Cat Walking On Snow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIYqz-RTAKA	/r/videos/comments/rprgug/insanely_cool_diorama_modeled_from_foam_and/	[ "I am so impressed by the tiniest details he created by hand, each little brick and stone, each light and leaf... incredible. The only thing I think he should have left out was the giant koi. I think that was \"too Chinese\" for a well in India, and was a distractor to all the other elements he so painstakingly put in.", "the level of detail is insane in this, so impressive.\n\nhowever i cant help but wonder why he dedicates so much detail to the inside while leaving the exterior so plain.", "Because the focus is supposed to be on the interior.", "I hope one day you get to India.... stunning work.", "Eh, I liked it. Carp isnt just a Chinese mythological symbol, its also a Hindu, Buddhist, and Jainist symbol. A symbol of fertility and abundance seems fitting for what the diorama represents (ashtamangala symbols).\n\nanother example is Matsua being an avatar of Vishnu that is often represented as a carp or other fish (or sometimes a mermaid type creature)" ]	5	videos	Insanely cool diorama modeled from foam and poured resin
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rprm8d/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rprm8d/deleted_by_user/	[ "[Shouldn't it be called \"Red Scorpion\"?](https://i.imgur.com/IA05RjM.png)", "Good comment, but the red scorpions are the guards of the Black Scorpion, which comes later. You can see it in the [second video](https://youtu.be/Qi2xBpMgRFU).", "Disney or Universal will eventually make this." ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rps6v3/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rps6v3/deleted_by_user/	[ "Samsung with the death grip", "The microsoft cameo amuses me.", "[Basically Microsoft](https://i.imgur.com/rTVkgd5.mp4)", "Shocked that Apple didnt hold a larger market share in the late 00s and early 10s.", "I'm surprised Pixel didn't even register.", "Pixels are only sold in a few countries.", "TIL. Thanks.", "I was kind of suprised blackberry/RIM didn't show up in the picture only for a few months in the chart. As far as i know they were the giant smart phone producer for years and only taken over by apple years later (which i guess were dwarfed by dumb phones, but still i expected them to be in the top 5 for at least a few years)", "It's interesting that now smartphones are so powerful - sales have dropped, as you'd expect as people have little incentive to upgrade. This shows being in the hardware selling business isn't where it's at as its shrinking - unless selling hardware means you can preload your software and force customers to use it." ]	9	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMekubv3qNM	/r/videos/comments/rpsbhu/the_subtle_joy_of_some_guys_digging_a_hole/	[ "Trent's line delivery always makes me laugh", "This is going to be Nicolas Cage's next movie, a sequel to Pig.", "Man, now I wanna piss but not piss on a fence. I just want the option, ya know?", "I can't piss for shit right now", "extremely disappointed about the misleading title, which i agree with and wanted to actually watch.", "Groundbreaking performance", "Nothing more uncomfortable than having piss for shit except maybe shit for piss.", "[Here you are!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CZjsEI1yU)", "of dwarves https://youtu.be/BEm0AjTbsac\n\nof convicts https://youtu.be/GLsCR2RMBak\n\nlet me know if you need anything else", "Thanks! Got any footage of the final product?", "Seriously though why does digging a hole feel so good, or for the first 5 minutes at least.", "I'm so confused in what's going on here? 😂\n\nIs this some genius level satire, a metaphor for something I'm missing? Or literally just some guys standing around trying to piss and dig/dig and piss?", "Yes", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CZjsEI1yU", "Ahhhh fuck, I thought that was Trent! I went to college with him! Hi Trent!", "If these guys aren’t Canadian, they’d pass the test anyway.", "This would be funnier without the fake mustaches", "Trent is Hollywood now\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiAj9NhvUTfNaq4YwOHGEyA", "Let me share you [the culture of my people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umarell)\n\nI'm sure there's similar things in every country.", "The dream video was fun.", "The Woodpecker Woman video was quite the experience.", "Not as deep of a hole as Kenneth griffin’s short position", "This is the best thing I've read all day.", "Wait they're fake", "Oh god I could totalling get behind that when I have more free time.\n\n\nConversation with my girlfriend.\n\nMe: hey let's go this way\n\nGf: it's this way though points in other direction\n\nMe: yea I know. But let's just have a look over here.\n\nGf: what why? We need to go to this thing.\n\nMe: we will. We can walk around it, will take 5 minutes\n\nGf: but they are doing loads of construction there. We can walk around somewhere else\n\nMe: what? No I want to walk around here. So I can see what they are doing.\n\nGf: it's construction.\n\nMe: yea I know but they got some big cranes. It looks like there is a hole on the go. \n\nGf: ....\n\nMe: come on.\n\nGf: fine.\n\nMe: wow that pretty cool isn't it. What you think that thing is for?\n\nGf: I don't know.\n\nMe: okay fine let's go.\n\nGf: happy? Was that really worth going out of the way for?\n\nMe: omg yea. Did you see that crane?", "This is some high art right here.\n\nIf there was one piece of media I'd want to survive the ages for whatever civilization in the far future to discover and use to learn about us, it'd be this one right here.", "This is comedy gold, omfg", "He has the best \"Yep's\"", "Just a couple a guys being guys, you love to see it" ]	30	videos	The Subtle Joy of Some Guys Digging a Hole
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rpsxh0/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rpsxh0/deleted_by_user/	[ "\"This guy\"\n\nRodney Mullen is his name, and he's a living legend.", "It’s a joke based on the front page post from earlier today", "Yeah dude it's Rodney Mullen, not like some random dude lmao. This is one of the best skateboarders of all time", "Ollies didn't exist before Rodney.", "It's insane how many skateboard tricks he invented.", "\"this guy\"", "His name is Rodney Mullen and you will respect him.", "And the most influential and important person in skateboarding, past and future." ]	8	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUDmH4OK1sM	/r/videos/comments/rpt1ec/carrie_fisher_was_more_than_a_princess_here_she/	[ "People tend to yell at you when on coke.", "Two amazing actors. \n\nI wonder how Tom Hanks feels about how many of his past co-stars are no longer with us", "Imagine how June Foray must have felt, voice acting over the age of 100, all of the people that came up with her long passed away.", "This and the money pit were 2 Hank classics", "The scene of their neighbors begging her to let Tom come out and play is still one of my favorites.", "Don't forget Joe vs the Volcano.", "Where do you think YOU’RE goin Gheppetto!!", "June Foray died when she was 99.", "Add in Splash and you’ve got an 80’s trifecta.", "May you live to be a thousand years old, sir" ]	10	videos	Carrie Fisher was more than a princess; here she is yelling at Tom Hanks
https://youtu.be/u34gHaRiBIU	/r/videos/comments/rptae5/batman_new_trailer/	[ "Robert Pattinson is a pretty good Batman", "That was…a lot. All previous trailers were pretty short so this one felt a bit too revealing.", "Oh yay, I love Batman!", "Bob Pattinson’s gonna knock this out of the park.", "How many Batmen am I supposed to care about?", "I always get a little irritated when a villain knows either spiderman or batman's identity. They work so hard to keep it secret and usually they get exposed in a dumb way or in an unexplained they just know kind of way. Sometimes it is done really well like Hugo Strange but usually I get annoyed.", "Agreed. Stopped watching half way through cause it was showing too much.", "Idk to me its always seemed unrealistic that any superhero ever would be able to keep their identity a secret for very long.", "Hmm, don't think he's quite Emo enough. Hopefully we'll see him in the Batcave in a My Chemical Romance T-shirt.", "Good to know, I'll skip watching this one so I don't feel like I already watched the movie.", "Robert Pattinson is a great actor, and I'm sure he'll be terrific. Heck, the movie itself might be really good, at least from a technical standpoint, but it's hard for me to get excited about re-re-re-re-re-boot because what story is left to tell? What elements of Bruce Wayne/Batman are left to explore? We know everything about them and have examined all the themes that make them compelling.\n\nAt this point, it feels more to me like going to watch the latest installment of Mission Impossible. It will be entertaining and they'll insert some new villains, but it will probably feel like something we've already seen.", "So anyway...", "Feel like I saw the whole movie already.", "Oh yeah well we still don't know who [Captain Crack](https://i.redd.it/rnub6vax7dm31.jpg) is!", "Let's all continue down this path of brainwashing where we not only numb ourselves to the idea of people's constitutional rights being violated but cheer it on.", "Tbh you could say that about many movie franchises or remakes / reboots. \nOr how often some Songs where re recorded by different Artists in the last 40 years.", "Bob??", "Why the music at the end sounds so much like the imperial march?", "Catwoman is always so cringe", "Bob, Bob Pattinson, of the Twilight movies", "I stopped at Jason.", "Do you ever stop to think how batman is just a guy dressed up like a bat. The suit doesn't even help him like Iron Man, if anything it makes fighting more awkward. These policemen are letting some guy dressed like a bat onto their crime scenes...", "I think I already saw it 10 years ago.", "You don't matter. I don't matter.\n\nIf you're even asking that question you aren't the target audience.", "> They work so hard to keep it secret \n\nDo they? You could just follow Spiderman/Batman home.\n\nLex Luthor got Superman's identity that way. He used drones/satellites to track Superman's flight patterns and over time it was clear there was a lot of activity at The Daily Planet and the apartment building Clark Kent lives in.", "A bit extreme. Care to elaborate your insane sounding point?", "Maybe he should carve SAD into his forehead? That's a good way to get his motivation across", "Or Captain Amazing, for that matter.", "(Studio producer on the phone) Hi! We need a good idea. Oh, we don’t have any good ideas? What? Let’s do a reboot. (Any movie made past 1992.", "This shit is hilariously on point: https://twitter.com/storyslug/status/1297996912822493196?lang=en\n\n>One of the big problems with \"dark and gritty\" Batman movies is that the people writing them can't craft a mystery that's so complex only Batman can solve it, so Batman's \"superpower\" ends up being \"the ability to violate people's Constitutional rights.\"\n\n>Batman \"gets results\" because he doesn't have to follow the rules that cops do, thus implying that cops would be so much more effective at their jobs if they didn't have to follow those rules.\n\n>And the grittier the Batman movie is, the fewer powers he's granted through his wealth. In a heightened reality Batman has supercomputers, ninja skills, fascinating nonlethal gadgets.\n\n>A gritty batman has all the same powers as a cop in riot armor with no legal restrictions.\n\n>If Jim Gordon tied up a criminal and beat the shit out of him while screaming \"Tell me where the girl is!\" he would be subject to lawsuits, suspensions, etc.\n\n>Batman's only \"superpower\" in a gritty movie is that nobody can stop him from hurting people.\n\n>The Batman of the 80s and 90s had \"wonderful toys\" that did set him apart from the police force, and they emphasized his battles against similarly-heightened supervillains with ray guns and magic plants and exploding rubber ducks. He's not just putting muggers in wheelchairs.\n\n>When Batman was first created, policing was very primitive, and the gulf between what the cops had - six-shooters and cars that didn't have seatbelts - and what Batman has was much greater, which made the necessity of Batman seem much greater.\n\n>Nowadays though, when a GCPD officer calls in that the suspect is driving a \"black... tank?\" it gets a laugh, but why? Cops have tanks. Cops have lots of tanks. They have armor on-par with what a gritty Batman wears. They have shock guns and gas grenades and thermal imaging.\n\n>Physically, cops nowadays have pretty much all the same capabilities as Batman does. The only thing that makes him different from them is that he's gets to be WORSE than them.\n\n\n>This is what makes Batman an advertisement for abusive policing, packed movie theatres cheering for brutal violations of our social contract and an implication that we could have thousands of Batmans if we'd just look the other way and let cops take care of things.\n\n\n>And truly, I've got a lot of Angry Facebook Uncles who have said just that when talking about the protests in our cities these last several months, \"If we all just looked the other way for a night the cops could take care of this once and for all.\"\n\n\n>How does one address this?\n\n>Simple: make Joe Chill a cop.\n\n>It's hardly beyond the scope of imagination that a crooked cop in an economically-blighted city could be committing crimes on the side. Our real history is full of cops committing domestic abuse, rape, murder.\n\n>So make Joe Chill into Officer Joe Chill, ten-year veteran of the GCPD. He tries to rob the Waynes, things go sideways, and he guns them down.\n\n>Bruce identifies him at the station, the other cops cover for him, say Bruce is confused.\n \n \n \n \n \n>Joe Chill says that yes, it was his police sidearm used in the murder, but that's because his gun was stolen from him. You know how these animals in Gotham can be.\n\n>He gets two months paid leave as punishment for losing his sidearm.\n \n \n \n>So instead of spending ten years learning how to fight against street crime and mob bosses, he spends ten years with his eyes firmly fixed on police corruption, the blue boy's club that protects murderers.\n \n \n \n \n>Bruce knows that when cops die, that's when cities crack down in new and horrifying ways, so he's careful to never take a life. When he catches a cop beating his wife, or shaking down a store owner, or abusing a black man at a traffic stop, he leaves them tied up and dangling.\n \n \n \n \n>Conservative pundits around Gotham would immediately label Batman a menace, and even as Batman starts using his computers and surveillance cameras to prove he was in the right, that these cops were dirty, people would still flock to defend the cop's bullshit version of events.\n \n \n \n \n>Joe Chill, of course, is now the Commissioner. Untouchable, beloved by the public for a series of high-profile crackdowns on things like petty theft and homeless people sleeping on subway vents for warmth.\n \n \n \n \n>He's sending in cops in riot armor to break up tent villages under overpasses, he's arresting people who try to feed the homeless, he's making the cops more and more militarized, and Gotham's wealthy elite love him for it.\n \n \n \n \n>Jim Gordon is explicitly called out in the story for being the coward he is. In most portrayals of his early career he's seen as a lone good cop surrounded by corrupt ones, but Batman shames him for the things he's allowed to happen right in front of him.\n \n \n \n \n>Bruce Wayne, meanwhile, has returned to Gotham after a long absence and is upsetting the wealthy elite with the way he behaves. He's opened Wayne Manor to the indigent of Gotham City, the entire grounds are swarming with poor people. \n\n>He doesn't allow cops inside.\n \n \n \n \n>The people have had enough, they're rising up in protest against the cops. And the cops are out for blood, riot shields at the ready, gas grenades prepared. They've got beanbag rounds and tasers and batons.\n \n \n \n>But the people of Gotham have Batman.\n\n>When the cops get ready to assault the peaceful protesters, that's when Batman drops out of the sky, neutralizing their \"less-lethal\" armaments, taking them down before they can hurt anyone.\n \n \n \n \n>Batman takes control of the satellites around Gotham, broadcasting live to the whole world with instant replay what each cop was trying to do before Batman intervened.\n \n \n \n \n>Eventually, as happens sometimes, the tide of public opinion turns enough that some officers start getting disciplined, and when that happens furious cops start quitting the force in droves, closing down entire precincts in protest.\n\n>\"You'll be begging for us back\" they say.\n \n \n \n \n>Except they don't.\n\n>That's when Bruce Wayne steps in, using what's left of his money and privilege to fund new alternatives to policing in that part of Gotham. Showing a new way of doing things. Volunteers going door to door to help their neighbors.", "The vigilante fantasy has always been a bit reactionary. And historically vigilante violence has been predominantly against the vulnerable. The Klan in Birth of a Nation were also vigilantes, also \"defending\" something from what they considered the powers of chaos and destruction. So vigilantism in art isn't exactly apolitical. \n\nNolan's Dark Night Rises has been jeeringly summed up as \"Trustafarian dons mask and goes out at night to beat up on Occupy.\" \n\nThat being said, I'll still see this movie. And continue being critical of the vigilante power fantasy.", "Oh sure, vigilante justice isn't legal.\n\nThe Batman character was traumatized by a street level criminal (mugger) not by his white collar peers abusing lax human rights laws in the 3rd world. Makes sense he would focus on street crime.\n\nHe does also go for higher ups: crime lords, drug kingpins, corrupt officials, etc.\n\nPlus Batman also deals with a clown who wants to poison gas the city and a clay monster... among other shit. I'm not sure how well a respect for mental illness and de-escalation tactics would work on Two Face or Penguin.\n\nPretty much ALL super heroes are vigilantes. I think sometimes you see people authorized by a government agency, but not too often.", "\"What comes out of the end of a gun??\"\n\n\"INJUSTICE!\"", "Big tent pole movies like these try to capture as wide an audience as possible, so yeah I kind of am. This isn’t some 100 city release art house film lol", "> thus implying that cops would be so much more effective at their jobs if they didn't have to follow those rules.\n\nInvented implication strawman.\n\n> A gritty batman has all the same powers as a cop in riot armor with no legal restrictions.\n\nNot at all true. Batman always has his gadgets. In the Nolan movies he had a ton. Also he's smart, like a detective. Not at all a \"cop\".\n\n> cops nowadays have pretty much all the same capabilities as Batman does\n\nNot true. You're ignoring his skills, experience, and training. Batman has better than military tech, not the hand-me-down shit cops buy to make their dicks feel bigger.\n\n> Batman an advertisement for abusive policing\n\nThe whole first part was talking about how police CAN'T do what Batman does, because of the law and regulations.\n\n> we could have thousands of Batmans if we'd just look the other way\n\nNot at all. One of the Nolan movies even shows people trying to be a KMart Batman. They end up beaten or dead.\n\n> Angry Facebook Uncles... \n\n... a lot of them are idiots with horribly obviously flawed opinions. I'm not defending them.\n\n> Officer Joe Chill, ten-year veteran of the GCPD. He tries to rob the Waynes\n\nWhy would a cop, with a salary, try to mug some millionaires? Stupid.\n\n> he spends ten years with his eyes firmly fixed on police corruption, the blue boy's club that protects murderers\n\nThis would be a fine alternate reality (or Elseworlds) story. \n\n> he catches a cop beating his wife, or shaking down a store owner, or abusing a black man at a traffic stop\n\nBut he ignores other wife beaters, armed robbers, grand theft autos if they AREN'T cops.\n\n> Conservative pundits around Gotham would immediately label Batman a menace\n\nThis already happens in Batman media. There was even a [Batman TAS episode](https://batmantheanimatedseries.fandom.com/wiki/Trial) around this idea.\n\n> Batman starts using his computers and surveillance cameras to prove he was in the right... people would still flock to defend the cop's bullshit version of events\n\nIdiots would flock. A few small amount of idiots. If there was video evidence, a paper trail, and whatever else Batman could put together this wouldn't be brushed aside. Pure illogical fiction.\n\n> homeless people sleeping on subway vents for warmth.\n\nThis can be very dangerous because subway vents have moisture (steam) that will soak a person. You don't want to be wet and homeless in freezing weather.\n\n> Batman shames [Jim Gordon] for the things he's allowed to happen right in front of him\n\nMaking uncharacteristic shit up now. Why not just say Batman molests a young Dick Grayson? \n\n> He's opened Wayne Manor to the indigent of Gotham City\n\nAbout the least effective use of his wealth/assets/power to fight homelessness.\n\n> He doesn't allow cops inside\n\nI don't allow cops inside my house either, unless the have a warrant or some other legal right to enter.\n\n> cops get ready to assault the peaceful protesters...\n\nOnce again, I'm fine with Batman fighting against a corrupt police force, or protecting unarmed protestors from excessive force. Other than this just being another TYPE of vigilante action I don't see the relevance of this fan fiction piece.\n\n> That's when Bruce Wayne steps in, using what's left of his money and privilege to fund new alternatives to policing\n\nSo the author wants to privatize the police force? They tried that in Robocop to less than ideal success.\n\nBut Bruce Wayne is a good billionaire/corporation? Ok, so you can have a good police force. If you're just inventing shit without care for logic, established history of the character, believable motivations, and the rest then I can't help you.\n\nJerk off to an Elseworlds tale where Batman exclusively beats up corrupt cops and saves protestors. It probably wouldn't be the worst Batman story I've read.", "While I do think it looks kinda cool... I'm just not excited to see it... not sure why", "at this point like 7 ish", "Twink Batman just isn't doing it for me.", "The last riddler was jim carey. I feel like. Its more about making the bad guys actually “bad” now.", "huh, its almost as if its fiction? who would've guessed?", "cant wait to watch this. im so excited!!!", "You're a jaded/critical consumer. You're an easily ignorable tiny demo group. You asked if you're \"supposed to care\". That's too many questions.\n\nThe wide audience doesn't ask those types of questions. They are either excited or at least interested already.", "Yes Cee, Cee diggoris from the Harry potter", "Another one of those really dark movies. If I can't see anything why should I even bother?", "All of them except George Clooney one.", "Very little of batman has been explored. Problem is they keep rebooting so they have to rehash the early themes over and over. We never get to see that parenting themes, bruce realizong je is a terrible father. The robins bonding over their shared traumatic childhoods. Bruces relationships with the justice league and his trust issues tearing them apart too. Jason todd, grason and damian as batman and robin after bruce dies. Etc. \n\n\nWhat batman needs is a series that continues. Get into the robins, honestly start with grayson and time jump in the second movie to the teenage phase with them breaking up at the end and being replaced by jason weeks later.\n\nMovie three can have the titans, nightwing and jasons death at the end. \n\nMovie four could be damien showing up and red hood. (Tim can be skipped, he doesnt bring much that dick didnt cover thematically). \n\nThen we get batmans death and the o.g robin dick grayson becoming the new batman with damien at his side. \n\nNext movie is bruce wayne traveling through time as batman different eras (because darkside didnt kill him but through him into the past) \n\nNexy film Bruce returns, struggles with damians killing people. They have fights but come to accept and love each other by the end just before damian is murdered by his clones at the end.\n\nNightwing dies in a justice league film (but really is alive thanks to lex luthor and bruces hides the fact he is alive from the batfamily)\n\nNext movie is about batman going to hell- err apocalypse to return damian from the dead only for him to have powers upon revival and a falling out with batman once he finds out his brother dick is alive and batman lied to him.\n\n\nThen at that point were pretty done.\n\n\nReally batman is the one comic that never gets rebooted. It is actually the key to introducing. Everything else. It leads into teen titans which involves super boy which involves lex luthor and superman. You wondergirl. Flashes kid sidekick. Ect.\n\nThats how they could have built up the world. Stand alone heros. Teen titans movie about dick and batman falling out which would introduce tons of justice league members. Then justice league movies that advance both teen titans and batman plots (batman died in a justice league comic, same with nightwing) \n\nAnd so on.", "Is this a reboot? Wrent they using Ben Assleck anymore?", "Still not feeling the redneck hot rodded by Bubba Bat-mobile.", "That is part of the problem of modern day superhero stories. They are originally a product of the early to mid 20th century where something you described wouldn't be fathomable for their time. Nowadays, we live in a world where everyone is readily and easily trackable. I'm still excited for this movie but this trope gets tiring.", ">Invented implication strawman.\n\nNot invented at all, actually. It's the crux of his entire crime fighting vigilante style. The writer backs up this argument with examples where a cop can't behave as he does, and he saves the day by acting outside those boundaries, thus creating a situation where had cops been able to act that way they too would have saved the day.\n\n>Not at all true. Batman always has his gadgets. In the Nolan movies he had a ton. Also he's smart, like a detective. Not at all a \"cop\".\n\nThe writer clearly draws into focus the gadget and skillsets in their point. Whether he had some gadgets wasn't their point. As the gadgets and skillset slip away and are replaced with something closer and closer to what a vigilante would look like in real life, he begins to take on something more closely resembling what cops already are. \n\n>The whole first part was talking about how police CAN'T do what Batman does, because of the law and regulations.\n\nNo shit. \"Look what cops could do if you let them act outside those boundaries\" is the entire theme of this write-up lol\n\n>Not at all. One of the Nolan movies even shows people trying to be a KMart Batman. They end up beaten or dead.\n\nGee golly gosh, the dopes WRITTEN into a script turned out not to be good at the job of batman? I think you're completely missing the point here in that he's clearly drawing into question a militarized police force.\n\nHonestly you keep hammering the same point over and over with the rest of your reply. You're just picking lines out and replying to them with tunnel vision without really addressing the overall point being drawn into view. This wasn't impressive to read in the slightest but I did find what Sean Kelly wrote to be quite and intriguing take on the trend he outlines", "You know a lot more about Batman than I do, and I admire your passion!\n\nI'm not sure if your proposal would lead to mainstream success, but what you outlined sounds like it would be very appealing to true comic book fans.", "Today, with everyone, carrying a smartphone, cars with dashcams, doorbell cameras, and companies/government mining data, sure. Pre-2010, chances were much more likely they'd stay secret, and pre-1990 pretty much assured if they kept their mask on.\n\nThe Dark Knight from 2008 has a major plot point be Batman using data from all the cell phones in the city to locate the Joker in seconds. A few years later, Ed Snowden showed us the US government was doing that in real life. But in 2008 it seemed like a over-the-top thing that only Batman would do, and his engineer destroys the system after using it to catch the Joker because it's too dangerous.", "> resembling what cops already are.\n\nThis whole point and all points stemming from it are garbage because Batman is far more intelligent, skilled, and restrained than your average cop... and definitely more than the caricature force of bad cops this fantasy outlines.\n\n> the dopes WRITTEN into a script \n\nThe dope cops written into the post.\n\n> the overall point being drawn into view\n\nWhich is coming from a flawed starting point.\n\nYou can love the points he's making, be invested in them standing up to my scrutiny, but IMO they don't.", "I mean it allows him to \"glide\" and even the most basic version has bulletproof armor built-in. There's waaay more as well, depending on the version. Assuming we're not talking about the original 1960's style and instead are on the more 2000's era suit, you have the blades on the bracers, lead-lined cowl (to preserve identity), the boots have the \"bat caller\", there's a neck brace to prevent injury, and you have the utility belt and all it's features which for the sake of it we'll keep out of the discussion. Regardless, the suit does actually help him a bit. \n\n\n[Inb4](https://media4.giphy.com/media/tTc43DeTm2kkJTrI2G/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47spduu2i14bxggtusoidjbrxix6e7w0g44zoiuwlz&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)", "Bob is short for Robert.", "That writing is terrible.", "> Batman is far more intelligent, skilled, and restrained than your average cop... \n\nYou still don't get it. As batman becomesmore \"gritty\" the less and less this is true. That's the entire point. At some point down this path you get to a version where you really lay out what it would look like for a billionaire vigilante to fight crime and it's exactly this - a douchebag who could easily be mistake for a cop given a free pass to violate people's rights. \n\n\n\n\n\n>The dope cops written into the post.\n\nAnother invalid point. An apt description of police in America isn't a made up reality. \n\n\n>Which is coming from a flawed starting point.\n\nA starting point you have demonstrated repeatedly you don't grasp or refuse to grasp.\n\n>You can love the points he's making, be invested in them standing up to my scrutiny, but IMO they don't.\n\nObviously in your opinion they don't. Your counter arguments fall flat because you're not even critiquing the points correctly. \n\nThanks for trying but now I find the point of view even more valid whereas before I just found it thought provoking. It woud have been great if it provoked a valid retort.", "> As batman becomesmore \"gritty\" the less and less this is true\n\nNo examples are given. I can state anything, but without evidence it's piss in the wind.\n\n>An apt description of police in America\n\nA cartoon mustache twirling completely corrupt police force is not apt.\n\n> you have demonstrated repeatedly you don't grasp or refuse to grasp\n\nI completely grasp it, I just disagree with it. Clearly.\n\n> I find the point of view even more valid\n\nWell I guess at the very least I've emboldened your biases. That's a service to your self esteem, which seems linked to this argument since you have glossed over 90% of what I brought up. Glad I could be of assistance.", "Oh look he’s all tuckered out.", "\n>No examples are given. I can state anything, but without evidence it's piss in the wind.\n\nThe example is the new Batman and how even compared to the previous dark knight series it continues down this path. Dark knight compared to previous series is another example. The closer we get to \"reality\" the less and less these unique aspects of Batman play a role in his distinction from traditional police forces. \n\n\n\n>A cartoon mustache twirling completely corrupt police force is not apt.\n\nBy pointing out they have tanks? WTF are you talking about? Are you addressing the version of police in the movie idea the writer comes up with? So it's ok to exaggerate fake characters only if you're praising police? LOL\n\n\n\n>I completely grasp it, I just disagree with it. Clearly.\n\nIf you simply disagreed with it you would have said so. Instead you argued against something completely different. \n\n\n\n>Well I guess at the very least I've emboldened your biases. That's a service to your self esteem, which seems linked to this argument since you have glossed over 90% of what I brought up. Glad I could be of assistance.\n\nI think the point forced you to consider yourself in a way you found appalling and instead of acknowledging it's validity you reject it out of _your_ personal bias. \n\nAnd yeah, when you get repetitive and you reply by quoting line by line instead of just writing a retort with your general point of view, people are gonna gloss over. Get over yourself. You didn't put much thought into your responses and you were outwitted before you began writing lol\n\n\nEdit: forgot to disable inbox replies. You made your points, no sense in continuing as you're starting to get snippy and make things personal.", "k", "What does Halloween have to do with Batman?", "Cee is short for \"the entertainer\".", "Bat Product #664785535", "Bob had bat tips.", "If I ran into Batman somewhere, my first question would be:\n\n\"That thing got a hemi?\"", "michelle pfeiffer was perfect.", "I mean, super hero movies are the most profitable movie to make still, and some studio owns the rights to BATMAN, what are they gonna do, not try to get another trilogy going?", "There's a certain degree of entitlement that comes with the way you're behaving. It's the idea that you don't like / aren't interested but are also upset that this particular piece of entertainment doesn't cater to you.", "You mean you didn't like nipples on the suit?", "I saw enough that I don't feel like I need to watch it.", "I know that Batman is supposed to be stoic, but Bruce?\n\nAnd the last shot of Batman looking at the cam, really makes me think of those tiktoks where the guy is hot for the cop arresting them.", "I retract all previous positions on the trailer. Consider Batman's honor defended", "Is this DC's only hero lmao. The only thing exciting about batman is who the villain will be.", "non, in DC we care about the villain", "Then don’t", "Bob is short for Bobert.", "There was a little bit of John Williams in that score, eh?", "Funny thing is if Batman were real he would actually go against philanthropies as modern day criminals. Not all of them, sure, but most yes.", "Hathway wasn't cringe either", "This happened to me with Shang Chi, watched every trailer, ad, interview, because I was really excited for the movie. \n\nI still liked it but most of the movie I felt I had already seen it.", "It's not about defending the movie. I don't really care to see it. I'm just happy to put my hands up and say I'm glad someone's getting the movie they want to see but it doesn't have to be me.\n\nNo need to act like a petulant kid.", "…what he described is basically how the MCU did it.", "She is. She really has been cringe everytime.", "I fucking agree. I've been hoping to see the Robins' story on the big cinema, but even the Dark Knight Trilogy only went as far as to have a Robin as a \"cameo\" with nothing else built upon it.\n\nWe really have never gotten anything from Batman past the beginning phases.", "How and why does everyone lose their shit about trailers? These aren't 'whodunnit' stories. It's a superhero flick. Not only is it a superhero flick, it's a superhero who's story has been retold hundreds of times in print, and many times on film. If you're hoping to go to the new Batman movie and be surprised by an aspect of it, you are wrong. It's a popcorn movie. Lower your expectations.", "I liked those lol. Arnold was 10/10", "Why does everything look so clean. Like you're in a stageplay almost. Doesn't feel lived in and real.", "Have you been watching Titans? Its a dark gritty live action teen titans and its about the robins more than the Titans" ]	90	videos	Batman New Trailer
https://youtu.be/7YEOQZHobSM	/r/videos/comments/rptstd/gingerbread_smash_a_family_tradition/	[ "I like how every kid has their own way of smashing the gingerbread house.", "Wait, so... I'm actually being weird for making and the eating my gingerbread home?!", "Ours always get hard and gross, maybe we need to make them from scratch vs the prebuilt?", "Oh yeah! Prebuilt I probably wouldn't chance either. Build from scratch is a lot of fun but also tedious! And although tasty, they don't make for such an awesome video 😋", "those girls were putting their absolute all into those hammer blows lmfao and then the dude is just like BOOP.", "the trick is to store them properly covered with foil and dont wait couple of weeks to eat them. \n\n\nSource: Made Gingerbread Houses from scratch (making gingerbread is a pain in the ass) with my Sister and Grandma for many years." ]	6	videos	Gingerbread smash! A family tradition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJKwzmJSpN8	/r/videos/comments/rpu5pr/npr_fat_joe_tiny_desk_concert_at_home/	[ "It's actually a normal sized desk, it just looks tiny.", "I thought the whole point of the tiny desk concert was to constrain the artist to a single, tiny desk.", "What the fuck happened to tiny desk. The charm is kinda lost if the performances aren't unplugged. This isn't even a little bit unplugged.", "No longer in the office due to covid", "I quite enjoyed this. Sorry to hear it was not up to standards from the other blokes here in this thread. I for one, did not have a problem with that this evening." ]	5	videos	NPR - Fat Joe - Tiny Desk Concert at Home
https://youtu.be/zL4LFSbFPcw	/r/videos/comments/rpudbi/the_batman_the_bat_and_the_cat_trailer/	[ "Wow, a trailer without a stupid fucking mini teaser before it; have we finally moved beyond this tragedy of editing?", "But how am I going to know what the trailer is about if it doesn't have its own trailer?", "What is that title", "The name of the movie and trailer", "Honestly thought it was going to watch a trailer for Twilight: Episode 12. Watched the whole thing and this looks ok I guess. Don't understand why he isn't sparkling in the sunlight though.", "Who knew there would be such an audience of people who wanted the same basic stories for 80 years.", "All I can think of while watching this trailer: It’s really hard for me to move on from Nolan’s Batman." ]	7	videos	The batman The bat and the cat trailer
https://youtu.be/IadaRx5Zr3I	/r/videos/comments/rpv0d5/a_year_in_the_life_of_earths_co2/	[ "I'm surprised that the south never comes even close to comparable in concentration and spread relative to the north. The concentration in the north drops off significantly during the summer months, yet no part of the world below the equator becomes comparable during the southern winter for as long as the north's.", "Nearly 90% of the world population lives in the northern hemisphere", "This really shows the importance of trees. Look how the Amazon absorbs all that CO2, almost as if it's breathing (which it basically is).\n\nCompare that with the Sahara desert, where CO2 sort of just lingers there all year round.\n\nEven looking at America, Europe, and China - responsible for most of the world's CO2 output, we can sort of see a bit of that \"breathing\" action due to the presence of forests and jungles. Pretty neat.", "I would love to be able to view this data on a 3D globe so it doesn't have the map-warp effect this has in the north pole. I think it would give a much clearer perspective on how the CO2 moves around. Super cool video", "Amazon is just much less seasonal. You can see the months that north america is sucking a tons of carbon out of the air, during our vegetation growing season. Shit I wouldnt be surprised if USA produces more oxygen and takes out more carbon then the amazon during our later summer months. We are the worlds grain basket. \n\nNot saying the amazon isnt importants, but you just kinda get a different pattern at the poles due to seasons.", "Most the worlds seasonal vegetation is in the northern hemisphere.", "CO2 is heavy!", "Hehee because of gravity?", "Well this is projected in equirectangular which completely throws off the reality of the size of the spread. 1 point on a spherical map is the entire top row of this projection.", "this is an equatorial map projection so south of the equator doesn't equate to \"down\".", "Fuck China and America. The world would be better without them both.", "The intensity meter doesn't go hot enough to capture the global 400ppm we hit a couple years back. Crazy that we were in such a better position as early back as 2006." ]	12	videos	A year in the life of Earth's CO2
https://youtu.be/w4vbmEsg6pQ	/r/videos/comments/rpv0k0/wolf_gets_cozy_in_a_neat_of_snow/	[ "nest", "Neat nest", "My dog just looked up from a pile of blankets on the couch, glanced at my laptop and mumbled \"what a chump.\"", "Red dead 2 wolves would be attacking the snow", "I was really hoping \" neat\" was a word I had not previously known meant pile.", "Neature. You can tell because of how it is.", "Neat", "how neat is that", "would ya just look at it", "https://youtu.be/Hm3JodBR-vs", "My cat was tripping out from the bird sounds" ]	11	videos	Wolf gets cozy in a neat of snow
https://youtu.be/8BBlFLcMiGA	/r/videos/comments/rpvevx/the_batman_the_bat_and_the_cat_trailer_dc/	[ "God I’m excited", "Wow well done. \n\nLove how it got even darker!!!", "Cinematography is brilliant, dialogue is questionable.", "I don't mind Pattinson but his hair is driving me crazy", "They're doing Hush aren't they?", "He looks singnificantly less like crybaby Batman than he did in the other trailer", "Oh shit I hope not. That does make sense though. Riddler is a childhood friend who gets surgically altered to look like Bruce Wayne. Ugh", "Yeah, it's a God awful story. I'm hoping there's some serious changes for the movie.", "It works in the comic, but it could never work in a movie format. Even the animated one sucked. Hopefully this is more of a thriller/mystery." ]	9	videos	The Batman \| The Bat and The Cat Trailer \| DC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o4nl7_-jIE	/r/videos/comments/rpvuw7/how_not_to_grow_your_youtube_channel_2021/	[ "Dear lord. I can think of literally thousands of things to do that are more productive. The problem is that even if you succeed in getting a big fan base, they leave you in a moment for the next thing. Instead, make something of yourself. Improve yourself.", ">d, make something of yoursel\n\nwhat u said holds truth. Do u have experience on youtube as a youtuber?", "No. I love making videos and having fun with that stuff but I believe too many kids are tying their hopes to making it big without any sort of plan. Make a plan and then stick to it. I’m a big fan of planning. I set goals for the day before I brush my teeth. I get a lot done. Honestly, I think anyone would be better off creating a video like this…”pseudo instructional” versus trying to make content or become an “influencer”. \nThink about it like this, if you read for an hour a day, in any given topic, after a year, you’ll be a world class expert in that topic. I don’t care if it’s nuclear energy, you’ll know quite a bit. Apple that concept to your life and you’ll be a rockstar…or exactly whatever else you choose to set your sights on." ]	3	videos	How NOT to grow your youtube channel 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI5fhsCrEhY&t=7s	/r/videos/comments/rpvvjd/no_backstory_just_a_video_im_pretty_stoked_on/	[ "That’s awesome, I really enjoyed it", "Thank you!!", "love the post processing! \n\nhonestly felt a bit sad watching it, looking forward to trying to get out with friends this summer into nature.\n\nthe pacing carried that kinda nostalgic longing.\n\nvisited CO last summer and took more photos than I ever have but I noticed I started to like taking videos more as it’s easier to capture the totality of the scene. you definitely captured that here.\n\nwas this with a phone or pro rig?" ]	3	videos	No backstory, just a video I'm pretty stoked on finally making
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWiS4nTvvf8&t=9s	/r/videos/comments/rpw241/3d_animations_made_in_the_last_year_by_an/	[ "What’d she use? The Sims?", "First of all, that's hardly an insult, those games are a massive success for the company and this is so obviously original work, being compared to their quality isn't offensive to me, that's an accomplishment. Second, My work has cloth physics, hair simulation, mesh deformers, normal mapping, etc, all work that the Sim video games cannot support due to their weak game engine, so no, this is clearly better quality work than Sims animation, though comparing a video game engine to a render engine built for film and animation is hardly fair. Third, I'd like to see you create anything more than a default cube with your head so far up your own ass. Please, prove your point, where's your photo realistic renders, lmao", "If you present your work to public, you must prepare for criticism.\nAlso: If you take no offense, its great. I am afraid, your work doesn’t look much better then the Sims to me. \nBut i actually think the Sims look great. A fair comparison to me, since i am not under the impression that you did try to go to a realistic look.", "It's a different style and quality completely. You don't have an eye for art if you can't see that. Not everything realistic is the Sims. You probably don't even know what half of the details I listed above mean which just proves you don't know shit about quality art", "Seriously? \nEven if i did not know, what you are talking about, its the result that counts. “Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder”, that’d be me.\nDidn’t you say you weren’t offended? You shouldn’t be. \nMy opinion doesn’t really matter. \nYou still can be proud over your work." ]	6	videos	3D animations made in the last year by an aspiring CGI Artist.
https://youtu.be/S5UivzSho0w	/r/videos/comments/rpw9kd/my_first_video_its_a_little_mundane_and_the/	[ "Well done on your first video!", "Thank you!! 😬 Nervous", "That is a trippy hotel design! Pretty neat!", "The numbers are pi. I’m sure if you find the beginning it starts with 3.14159.", "Too short to see the first few numbers, but I googled some of them and it didn’t match any results.", "Delete this please", "Love it! Thanks for putting yourself out there. Now I need to go get me some giraffe gas station wallpaper lol", "Have you explored other areas or rooms in the hotel? Same decor? Different but equally odd? Your viewers demand more info!! Videos! Content! Rabies! Ahhh!!", "I’ll make a part 2!", "It’s 100% pi I grabbed a screen cap and searched a 13 number sequence on angio.net/pi/", "Ya, you can literally type almost any sequence of 10 single-digit numbers and find it in Pi. So the fact that they didn’t find “any” matching result... just doesn’t make sense.", "The 10 numbers before and after were also matching … it’s PI" ]	12	videos	My first video. It’s a little mundane, and the quality isn’t too great but I enjoyed talking out loud for the first time in days.
https://youtu.be/7EacanMEeEM	/r/videos/comments/rpwdt0/i_havent_seen_dumbo_since_i_was_a_small_child_but/	[ "Eh, I would not say it has not aged well. I think the point of the scene is that they are being exploited and have been conditioned to be OK with it.", "I’m just glad Disney isn’t erasing scenes like this from history: https://i.imgur.com/H8Cv5pj.jpg", "What’s wrong with it?", "Jesus, lol.", "Honestly not trying to make a huge thing, I read [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/03/29/original-dumbo-was-decried-racist-heres-how-tim-burtons-version-addresses-that/) and thought it would be an interesting share.", "Yeah not racist at all with the whole throw their pay away, ape reference among other things. Definitely not problematic in the slightest.", "Lol. I really doubt the scene is about social justice", "From[ their website](https://storiesmatter.thewaltdisneycompany.com/)\n\n> Dumbo\n\n> The crows and musical number pay homage to racist minstrel shows, where white performers with blackened faces and tattered clothing imitated and ridiculed enslaved Africans on Southern plantations. The leader of the group in Dumbo is Jim Crow, which shares the name of laws that enforced racial segregation in the Southern United States. *In \"The Song of the Roustabouts,\" faceless Black workers toil away to offensive lyrics like \"When we get our pay, we throw our money all away.\"", "Agreed. That's how it was, taking it out is just pretending it never happened, which doesn't benefit anyone.", "The workers we need, but not the workers we deserve.", "I really don’t see the issue here.", "I’m from the U.K. I just thought they were Showmen, it never struck me that they were black. I just applied a totally different ethnicity to them, they are faceless after all. I don’t feel especially racist, and my experience with travelling showmen is they do like a drink.\n\nThey crow part is bad though.", ">Eh, I would not say it has not aged well. I think the point of the scene is that they are being exploited and have been conditioned to be OK with it.\n\nYikes. Do you really think the intention here was to show how these workers are being brainwashed and exploited, as they cheerily sing about being \"happy-hearted roustabouts\"? Do you really think that's what the audience of the time took from this scene?\n\nOr is it more likely that the workers are being portrayed as stupid - happy to accept eggs and bacon so long as their \"boss-man\" is happy, because they are happy with their lot? This idea of the happy, stupid slave had been around for centuries prior to this film, and was used to justify slavery. \n\nThis extremely charitable interpretation of yours relies on the idea that you can \"condition\" a human being to merrily do back-breaking work (slave until we're almost dead) and not care about their compensation (we don't know when we get our pay, and when we do, we throw our pay away) because seeing the circus-goers is pay enough.\n\nYes, brainwashing is a thing, but human beings are never happy about having to do back-breaking work for little to no pay. No human is happy about being exploited, and to suggest that they'd be jovially going about this abuse is ridiculous. They're not being portrayed as indoctrinated, they're simpletons. They're beasts of burden. Hell - why even bother paying them!? The idiots will just throw it away anyway - their real purpose in life is making the boss man happy. Their bed and food are all they need. \n\nThis was 100% a scene in which the audiences of the time were supposed to see the black man \"in his element\", happy to accept his place alongside the animals as the strong, but stupid backbone of the show. It's incredibly patronizing and your interpretation is just plain wrong.", "Yeah, there totally weren't systemic reasons barring black Americans from upward mobility in 1941.", "That would be a accurate depiction of a laborer of that era. Hard work, low pay but they are proud to bring joy to children.", "No different than other labor jobs of the era.", "Maybe not for Dumbo, but they have never and will never release Song of the South on any home video format. It won an Academy Award but was so racist they keep it from seeing the light of day.", "It's almost like audiences of different generations end up taking away different things from the same media. Welcome to art. :)", "Ok hitler", "Big yikes…on the other hand, I always forget how beautiful the animation from this time was and what they were able to do…but still yikes.", "Um, no, this isn't a case of a benign intent getting lost amongst changes in political correctness.\n\nThis isn't like \"Baby it's cold outside\" - where the language being used seems creepy and toxic in today's context, but back in the 40's it was cute and understood that the woman actually was* playing hard to get, and that she had already made the decision to stay the night, and that they were playing out the roles assigned to them by society. \n\nThis is not like that.\n\nThe intent of the Roustabouts in the 40's was racist, and making excuses for it doesn't make it any less racist. Just because \"those were the times\" doesn't make it any less fucked up. \n\nNow - this doesn't mean we should censor it or \"cancel\" Disney over it, or even that we should necessarily malign the people who wrote it for harboring those ideas back then. \n\nBut the ideas were wrong then, and they're wrong now. This isn't about a subjective artistic interpretation. It's objectively racist and dehumanizing.", "Thanks for telling people what they can and can't take away from the art. Yes, they can interpret it any way they want and you can't tell them to do otherwise.", "You don’t even know what you’re saying.", "The song being sung, \"Song of the Roustabouts\" contains a number of phrases and references that are extremely racist and prejudicial, but were commonly used and \"socially acceptable\" at the time Dumbo was written.", "You’re welcome.\n\nYou simply can’t take away a non-racist meaning from this objectively racist song, unless you’re being disingenuous or intentionally obtuse.\n\nHope this has helped you.", "There was an animator's strike during the making of the film. Maybe it's an oblique reference. Why assume it's necessarily unsympathetic?", "Today I learned how to sew without needing a second string.", "Don't be surprised when this is locked. I can already see where this is headed... lmao.", "Which sucks, because zippity doo dah is a banger. It's a very well written song. The complete misinterpretation of why slaves sing seems to be a thing that keeps happening. The Blues didn't start because Black folks just felt sad one day in their middle class, well off lives.", "“Grab that rope you hairy ape” wtf", "But with very few exceptions they don’t alter their older films from their questionable and dated content. I don’t know where the idea that they do that all the time came from.", "I haven't seen it, but the dumbo clip seemed worse than the clip I could find from Song of the South: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ak4vjiNzw", "Omg nooo you can't talk about alcoholic circus workers normalizing their poor lifestyles by means of song.", "“You’re just privileged”.", "Keep in mind, at the point in time this film was being made there was a animators' strike going on at Disney Studios.\n\nSo between this and the scene where a bunch of clowns sing about \"hitting up the big boss for a raise\", the whole film was one big slap in the face to the striking animators.", "It's on the Internet Archive, restored in 1080p even.", "Are you kidding the only thing more liberal than Dumbo is Scrotie McBoogerballs.", "They're all black, they reference apes and slavery, they say they throw their money away, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it's racist.", "What exactly didn’t age well?", "The people that made it literally wrote you an explanation you idiot", "Yeah, it's the same for Aladdin too (stereotypes), and many old cartoons like DuckTales (tobacco, stereotypes etc.).\n\nEdit: correction: I get the same warnings for these shows on Disney+. I didn't make them ;)", ">I guess you're saying there's a deeper reason that they remain unskilled\n\nhttps://www.history.com/topics/early-20th-century-us/jim-crow-laws", "They are literally black because it's night out. And even if they're African American, then nothing in the lyrics is remotely offensive unless you jump through hoops trying to explain how the words are supposed to apply to an entire race lmao.", "As a kid I thought the crows were cool, arguably the best characters in the movie since they were compassionate towards Dumbo when Timothy told them about his past. I can see now how their artistic choices/depictions can offend viewers. While I personally don't believe that voice acting as other people is inherently racist, it did not help that the crows were voiced by white actors", "Only because there'd be uproar. If they thought they could get away with it and people wouldn't mind they'd totally cover it all up and pretend it never happened. As it stands, by being \"honest\" and \"open\" about how racist the film was, they get brownie points for their sensitivity and get to continue to cash in on nostalgia from a racist movie with a live action remake while people don't bat an eye.", "I refused to see Dumbo when I was a child and I still refuse to see it 😂", "I know and the logic people apply to the crows is they speak in a really stereotypical black way, and they are black crows. The people singing this song just sound white. \n\nI think it’s a bit of a stretch unless you actually think black people spend money and like working or something. I’m not getting this one. I’d be offended as a carnie but that’s it.", ">Roustabouts\n\nThis is my first time hearing this word.", ">then nothing in the lyrics is remotely offensive unless you jump through hoops trying to explain how the words are supposed to apply to an entire race lmao.\n\nYou obviously haven’t been paying attention if you think this way.", "Go ahead. Give us some examples. I want to see you jump through hoops justifying your outrage lmao", "> sound white\n\nFuck. Now I know what racism feels like. Thanks and Merry Christmas, you animal.", "I dunno about you but my skin doesn’t turn brown at night. These characters are black and depicted as such.", "Directly references to them being apes, conditioning them to be uneducated and happy through hard labour for minimum pay (or eggs and bacon and a bed, in this case), that they’re careless with their money, throwing it away once they’re paid. \n\nNo need to jump through hoops to justify anything. Stop being intentionally obtuse, because that shit ain’t working, mate.", "This film was made in 1941, 24 years before the Civil Rights Act of 1965 was passed. Have you ever read a history book?", "Y I K E S. But yeh its good to remind people what the times were like when these movies were made. No point removing it and letting people believe it didnt happen", "You think this is bad, but it gets worse. I recall being a kid and going to a Disney film, I think it was Footloose and Fancy Free. There's an entire song-and-dance number in it that centers around the idea that a daddy-bear who really, truly loves a momma-bear, will show his true love to her by... hauling off and smacking her in the face has hard as he can. So she's concussed and seeing stars.\n\nSaw this with my mom in the theater when I was very little. She made a point of whispering in my ear, \"Never, ever hit a girl. Ever.\"\n\nYes, mom. I know.", ">The Blues didn't start because Black folks just felt sad one day in their middle class, well off lives.\n\nThis is a really important point. Well said.", "That's the only part that isn't racist.", "But aren't we all technically apes? If you're into that evolution stuff that is.", "No, we’re not apes. While we have common ancestry, we branched off and evolved independently of apes.", "Source?", "No need to jump through hoops when all you need is an education. The stereotype of the happy, dumb black laborer who toiled away in ignorance because he didn't know any better was a prominent one of the era, not only seen in lots of media, but widely believed by people, too. And it was seen as a positive by white, as black people knowing their \"place.\" The whole notion of the \"uppity\" black stems from this, because the \"uppity\" black people were those who dared question the notion that they should just bust their ass for others all day with a smile and never question the system.\n\nNo hoops here, my friend. Just actual history, easily to learn about for anyone who is willing,", "I always thought the crows were the heroes of the film. They start off mocking Dumbo and Timothy (in a witty manner).\n\nWhen they see the distress in Dumbo they are compassionate and have a sense of empathy that suggests they may have experienced the same kind of ostracism. It's only with their encouragement that Dumbo is able to fly. Then once seeing Dumbo flying they turn their original mocking song on its head. To me that shows humility. \n\nYou'd think if the aim was just to create silly racist caricatures, they wouldn't have given the crows such virtuous traits.", "I like them too but the ‘lookey here!’ And ‘I bin dun sin’ Part is apparently caricature. \n\nI thought Ebonics was a real kind of accent, I didn’t know it was offensive. Great song though.", "Dude, I guarantee you that I'm older than that dude is, and it's seemed racist AF to me every time I've ever seen it (i.e., a lot).\n\nSo no, \"generational context\" in this case is complete bullshit.", "We're definitely still apes. One of the four Great Apes, actually.", "We evolved alongside Orangutans, Chimpanzees, Bonobos and Gorillas. \n\nWe have a common ancestor, but absolutely evolved differently from that ancestor.", "It's a movie that glorifies blacks living on a plantation.\n\ne: lol people downvoting obviously never seen it... Do you honestly think black people were all joyously singing 'Zippy dee do dah', while ~~slaves~~ working for white plantation owners?", "They all evolved differently from each other. I genuinely can't tell if you're trolling me right now, because humans being apes is an undisputed fact.", "Whoosh", "It’s been available overseas for decades.", "Same. I thought they just appeared dark because they were being shown somewhat in silhouette/at night. (Also muted colors/faceless so as to de-emphasize the humans and make it about the animals.)\n\nI always assumed they were just generalized roustabouts, not any particular race.", "I feel that is why it holds up. Not for good reasons, but it reminds us of how absolutely fucking horrible these people were treated. It's outright horrific and terrifying and in no way do I think the original intent wasn't racist.\n\nBut it's almost unfathomable that people genuinely made this. It's important we don't forget why they did it, not that it is a good thing.", "It did say they worked really hard jobs for little pay. Is that not exploitation? I don't think the song would be exactly the same if done today, but I don't think it was negative toward minorities. There's certainly far worse bugs bunny cartoons. Dumbo is a great movie.", "I missed that part? yeesh.", "Yeah, wouldn't want to demonstrate who bore the brunt of low pay labor in those days. How awful. Did _not_ age well /s", "Marge actually uses it correctly in an episode of The Simpsons.", "They literally call them apes at the end\n\nThis is satirical. Kids might not get it explicitly\n\nYou see the black men and elephants working together, it's about how the men were viewed as used as animals. But there was also an aspect of entertainment value of black music and bodies, despite keeping them in cages like they do with elephants.\n\nThe crows do this cracking wise.\n\n\nBut most of the movie is about elephants. They make this connection to black workers early and let the morals play themselves out in a kid friendly tone\n\n\nThis is a scary scene with 'scary' music and a storm, even children are meant to understand something is wrong here.", "The song doesn’t sound happy though, the rhythm, the key, the rain, the manual labour all seem grim, not cheerful. Dumbo is happy enough, but otherwise it’s setting a scene of the circus as a place of back breaking work. That’s at least what I get.\n\nThe film has plenty of racist tropes in it, but this is by no means a stand out.", "Get over it", "That's part of the problem. They do sound white. The singers were all white. It's an extension of the minstrel idea, white folks representing black lives and ideas from a white perspective.", "I don’t see how the carnies were representing black people, since they didn’t look or sound black. What they said in the song wasn’t anything I’ve heard as a black stereotype either.\n\nThey say an ‘ape’ thing, which if that was the intent, then yes I’d agree. That’s bad.\n\nLike I say, I get the crow stereotype as it was white people doing a fake black accent impression.", "Dumbo is a weird movie. It probably contains some of the more overt racial stereotypes of any film in the Disney canon. At the same time I believe it makes an attempt to compare Dumbo’s plight to the struggle of exploited peoples. He’s separated from his mother and used to make money. Only the crows are sympathetic to his predicament. Even this song, offensive as it may appear, seems to draw a parallel between the exploited laborers and the circus animals. Obviously I can’t be sure of what the filmmakers were trying to say. But I’m glad that Disney isn’t attempting to censor this less than flattering chapter of their history.", "The animals are all working to set up the tents.", "Because Disney was all about equality...", "That's just an American centric view of the world though. The types of people working in the circus in most of the world would be white uneducated runaways. Hence the term ran away to the circus. If anything it's more racist to the Irish traveler community from my UK point of view. America's history includes slavery yes but all labourers weren't slaves. These men even get paid and drink it away. So I wouldn't say they were slaves.", "Maybe maybe maybe NOOOOO", "Pretty safe bet that the people who worked on a movie released in 1942 are not the same people working for Disney today.", "This is how I feel about it. It’d be one thing if the profits of said remake or something of that nature was devoted to helping disenfranchised POC, but what they’re really saying is “hey we know this cartoon was racist as hell, but since we acknowledged this we can continue selling it and profiting from it.” I do think their action of at least pointing out how problematic it is, is noteworthy, but at the end of the day they just keep making money and having a “clean” reputation.", "Labor jobs are traditionally jobs the lower class does and it was like slavery.", "I don't see any reason to rule out that this was indeed intended as social commentary. At all times in history there are people who see the future, but who can only speak out in a way that is veiled and plausibly deniable. To be honest, I find it almost unbelievable that you are so unwilling to acknowledge the undertones of this scene, which are most certainly not a straightforward portrayal of the \"happy slave\".", "The movie was Fun & Fancy Free - [Say it with a slap](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8WlTWnMEsE) \n\nWhen a bird loves a bird he can twitter \nWhen a puppy falls in love he can yap \nEvery pigeon likes to coo when he says I love you \nBut a bear likes to say it with a slap \nWhen a whippoorwill’s in love he can whipper \nAll the horses neck and all the turtles snap \nEvery deer and every dove has a way of makin’ love \nBut a bear likes to say it with a slap", "And you are not a rocket scientist...\"they throw their money away\" they say, probably buying booze, a thing that many workers did and still do to escape from their miserable life, just for a bit, not only black people.", "I mean, it's a streeeetch to say that this is all supposed to be darkly ironic. I admit that it's possible - but then you consider:\n\nYes, the scene is visually dark - but the mood and canter of the song definitely is not. You say the rhythm and key is grim - are we listening to the same song? I think that's highly debatable. The tempo is upbeat and the voices are proud and jovial. Nothing downtrodden in their tone. \n\nLater on they're quoting their bossman when they use the \"hairy ape\" line - but in the beginning, it's just them, talking about how happy they are, and content with their lot in life. \n\nTaken on its own - I think this scene is already really suspect, but then you couch it in a movie where there are even more blatant racist stereotypes, and further contextualize it within the early 1940's - and it starts to seem like a huge reach to suggest that this was all supposed to be darkly ironic.\n\nEven if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I accepted that this was meant for the adults in the audience to see how exploitative this was... why make it look so cheerful and fun for kids? If the intent was to highlight injustice - why leave your primary audience with the idea that blacks loved this kind of thing - because surely you're not suggesting that kids were going to pick up on this supposed undertone - right?\n\nTo put it another way - let's Occam's razor this. What's more likely - that the writers wanted to include a darkly subversive, extremely subtle, acerbic commentary on the plight of the black man within an otherwise racist animated children's movie in 1941, oooooorrrr maybe, just maybe... they were just, you know, being racist?! One takes a lot of lot of give and rationalization, and convoluted justification, and the other - just... makes sense.", "It arguably aged quite well. It holds a negative view on the enslavement of animals AND humans, proposing both should be free.", ">Yes, the scene is visually dark - but the mood and canter of the song definitely is not. You say the rhythm and key is grim - are we listening to the same song? I think that's highly debatable. The tempo is upbeat and the voices are proud and jovial. Nothing downtrodden in their tone.\n\nThis is kind of an interesting one, because it's sort of culturally relative. In eastern European music, you do often find happy/celebratory music in a minor key. But I think it is safe to say that in the context of American music, particularly of this period, a minor key is a sure fire indication that something is amiss. No matter how upbeat the tempo etc may appear this was not meant to be a \"happy\" tune.", "It's been a while since I've seen Dumbo, but do you mean Jiminy Cricket? Unless I'm forgetting who Timothy is.", "Or was Jiminy Cricket from Pinnochio?", "If you think people can’t be happy in shit situations, then I have a bridge to sell you.", "It's set after the civil war, there are no slaves in it.", "I agree, it does appear to be a very dark scene with the rain and elephants working hard and dangerously. But if that was the intention, it was probably lost on the kids (and most audiences of the time).", "But aren't they imitating the boss man? Isn't the point of the song to point out how they're being exploited? It's a very gloomy scene, despite the tone of the song.", "Yes, Jiminy Cricket was Pinocchio, Timothy is Dumbo's Mouse friend.", "I think you're overstating it, the male and female bears both slap each other gently and are shown to be enjoying it the whole time. Most of them are just patting on the cheek.", "There are no slaves depicted in song of the south. \n\nThat said, it’s definitely not the most accurate depiction of real life. However, I don’t think it should be hidden forever.", "Uh, slavery remained in the south for a long time after the Civil War.", "Slaves in the American South were tortured, beaten and raped every day of their lives. Rebellious slaves were often brutally tortured to death, and children were routinely taken from their families to be sold, never to be seen again. I’m skeptical how happy any of them could have been.", "They're performing backbreaking labour, shown to have equivilent treatment to the animals and the whole song is portrayed darkly, literally in the rain.\n\nWhy would you possibly be reading the lyrics at face value?\n\nIf it was about people singing about manual labour it'd be during the day with an upbeat tune, and not centered entirely on negative imagery. Even the line about throwing their pay away is a common theme for people in these situations, Of Mice and Men makes it one of the core issues the \"smart\" character fails to deal with.", "I admire your optimism, but thats really not the intention. The point of that scene is to show how bad the elephants have it. They're the focus of the movie. It's essentially trying to get us to sympathise with the elephants by showing that they're treated as badly as the black workers. Like the black people deserved it, the poor ekephants didn't.", "Also, it's not sung by a slave, the film is set after the civil war", "Guess you haven't seen Song of the South lately?", "Have you seen The Grinch? Homie stole literally everything from the entire town, and the people still came out singing. People always find happiness in shitty situations, otherwise the suicide rate would be insane.", "I commend your massive balls for equating a lifetime of forced servitude, dehumanization, human trafficking, torture, sexual/physical/mental abuse, starvation, racism, murder and more with 'a shit situation'.\n\nHaving to spend a night in the cold because your heating stopped working is a shit situation. Living as a slave is lot more than that.", "Do you mean Crochet?", "Former slaves living during reconstruction", "Think the OP missed the overwhelming (but admittedly dark) satire in this scene. This is, to me, pretty clearly animated as a dark and almost scary scene to show the dark side of what was/is often seen as a bright and joyful life being part of the circus. This demonstrates that the circus is more, and more complicated, than what you see when you attend the big tent. \nGranted this doesn’t excuse that most of the roustabouts had dark skin, if that’s what you identify as problematic; but to be fair, manual labor in the sun (putting up and taking down the tent, plus the physical work for the circus) darkens most skin tones, and it’s a night scene, so it might not be racist (but admittedly probably is).", "It's scary that they even have that ability.", "The animation has aged incredibly well, but yeah its kind off borderline blackface material..", "> Maybe not for Dumbo, but they have never and will never release Song of the South on any home video format. It won an Academy Award but was so racist they keep it from seeing the light of day.\n\nAs an overall Disney fan, their love/hate relationship with the film is so goddamn weird. \n\nThe film itself has many racist elements, though on the whole, I would say the film is more prejudice than racist. I think there's a distinction there. \n\nThe film was based on the Uncle Remus books, written by a white man in the late 19th century. They are based on actual* African American folklore, and I think the author, Joel Chandler Harris, did have good intentions when writing them, but he was a product of his time. \n\n\nWhere it gets really weird, is even back in 1946, reviewers of \"Song of the South\" pointed out prejudice stereotypes and characterizations. \n\n\nSo, you have that film, which was NEVER released on home video in the US (it was in Europe and other places), AND YET, Disney decides in 1989-1992 to create a staple ride in their parks BASED ON THE ANIMATED PARTS OF THE FILM. \n\nSplash Mountain. \n\n\nSplash Mountain is not prejudice or racist in anyway, and has gone on to become one of the most popular and beloved rides in Disney parks. \n\nNow, back in the early 90's when the ride opened, there were probably quite a few parents and grandparents who had seen, or knew about Song Of the South. \n\n\nToday though, hardly anyone does. And the ride remains popular. \n\n\nYet Disney is now planning on changing it to be a Princess and the Frog ride, with Tiana to support black representation in their parks. \n\n\nHere's where it gets more dumb. \n\nSplash Mountain features no racist elements from Song of the South, is insanely popular, and the main character is Br'er Rabbit. \n\nBr'er Rabbit was a central figure in African folklore, and continued to be in African American folklore during slavery. He is a truly traditional folklore character. \n\nThe Princess and the Frog is based on a German fairy tale, which Disney adapted to an African American story set in the early 20th century. \n\n\n\nIt's such a weird mess.", "There was a video about the reboots Disney is making, claiming that they are basically trying to wash away the horrible things that could get them cancelled today. Remember in Dumbo the group of crows? Check them out.", "Right, so, you’re telling me that they didn’t create an entire tradition of story and music based on keeping their spirits as high as they could in spite of having to deal with that shit? Or that, if they did, we should be reticent to show it? ‘Cause that would be an awfully racist thing to say.", "Uuuhhhh I watched this ONCE when I was kid and hated it because of this! Never watched it again. And refused to hand my kids watch it. This clip reminded me I was right.", "What exactly is wrong with this? A song about the plight of hard labourers? The only remotely questionable line is “grab that line you hairy ape” but that is the workers themselves quoting their boss, so I don’t see how this is problematic at all", "It's weird, I didn't immediately get racist vibes from this. I mean, in context, I suppose it is racist. But bloody hell, I've been called a hairy ape before and I'm white. Honestly, I got more of a shanty vibe from the song. In shanties they sing about working hard until they get paid, and how they plan to blow it all on food, alcohol, and women until they go off sailing again.", "A lot of messed up stuff happened in that movie that isn’t okay now. Even erecting a massive circus tent in a lightning storm is pretty wrong.", "this video belongs on r/antiwork", "The unionized employees working at the job site? What’s wrong with that? Those guys are getting paid the big bucks for their hard long hour… the only discrimination here is that they didn’t hire more Latinos or white guys…", "Now we just pretend working class people don't exist.", "Lol what color were they supposed to be? It might not take rocket science to understand racism, but I'm pretty sure it takes something in between that and whatever is going on in that head of yours.", "Worse?! WTF. Is this abuse in your eyes? They both hit each other in that song. Also, they are goddamn bears ffs.", "Big oof Chief", "They also took out a lot from Fantasia. Just up and edited it out.", "What exactly did you think the original purpose of the scene was? It was never supposed to be happy. It was always grim.", "Yes… that’s the point of the scene… it’s not supposed to be good..it’s grim", ">White folks you can have your automobiles, paved streets and lights. You can have your buses, and street cars, and hot pavement and tall buildings cause I aint got no use for em no way. I tell you what I do want--I want my old cotton bed and the moonlight shining through the willow trees, and the cool grass under my feet while I run around catching lightening bugs. I want to feel the sway of the old wagon, going down the red, dusty road, and listening to the wheels groaning as they roll along. I want to sink my teeth into that old ash cake. \n> \n>White folks, I want to see the boats passing up and down the Alabammy river and hear the slaves singing at their work. I want to see dawn break over the black ridge and the twilight settle over the place spreading an orange hue. I want to walk the paths through the woods and see the rabbits and the birds and the frogs at night... \n> \n>\\-Clara Davis, former Slave, in 1937; born 1845\n\nLady just had a good slave owner who took care of her, and now society doesn't take care of her. She had a simple, happy life with good food, friends and family. \"But dey tuk me away f' m dat a long time ago.\" Good argument for communism?\n\nReal life is a complicated, strange mess.", "Yeah, they’re basically singing 16 Tons… they’re basically being darkly sarcastic.", "It's crazy that they actually animated the proper way to lace a tent.", "Wasn't the name literally Jim Crow?", "Carnies have always been the subject of abuse and mistreatment.", "Is that really the point that's important here?", "Srsly. The song is literally about them being abused and taken advantage of.", "Poor elephants", "That's not the only scene that didn't age well.", "….the “point of the scene” is the narrative pushed by white people that black people were okay with and HAPPY being exploited and enslaved. Not that they actually are", "I know, it’s upsetting to see the child labor in such awful conditions, but those are human laws, not elephant laws.", "Anyone else in here familiar with apes being used to refer to laborers regardless of race?", "I had the same exact take.", "Roustabouts seems like a terrible word to use in a song.", "A lot of the Splash Mountain animatronics was saved from an old attraction called America Sings. \n\nI guess I don't really have a point other than things get decommissioned all the time at Disney so I don't really see it as a mess.", "[Because slavery ended immediately after the Civil War.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/feds-bust-modern-day-slavery-ring-new-effort-immigration-enforcement-rcna8273)", "They are fucking animated bears. \n\nStop being such a snowflake.", "Slavery remains legal in the US. And, IIRC, there are more slaves today in the US than at any point in its past.", "> I just thought they were Showmen, it never struck me that they were black.\n\nThey're [roustabouts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roustabout).", ">That's just an American centric view of the world though.\n\nNot of the world, of the movie, because it’s a movie made by an American company.", "Formerly enslaved humans. Slave is not a race or ethnicity or culture. They were people.", "I mean, technically, no it did not. But I get what you're saying.", "> Directly references to them being apes\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-_c6V0U-4k \n \n> conditioning them to be uneducated and happy through hard labour for minimum pay, that they’re careless with their money, throwing it away once they’re paid. \n \nWell yeah... They're roustabouts...", "I get what you're saying, but these characters absolutely exemplified racist stereotypes of black people, one of the crows was named Jim Crow for gods sake. It's a bit ignorant to think that Disney's intention was to deliberately create racist characters, why on earth would they do that? They absolutely were racist, but it really wasn't racist in their eyes at the time (which is obviously more ignorant than anything).", "Don't watch Peter Pan again.", "One American history professor spent a class talking about the rebellious, subversive -- and sorta therapeutic -- nature of work songs sung by slaves. For example, he talked about a song that sounded sweet and simple and unassuming (I can't remember details, but something like Miss Lily Shows Me Her Shoe), with the white people unable to grok it was about fucking their daughter.", "Gonna need to cite your sources there. Where is there evidence of a slave being bought or sold in the US 'a long time' after 1865?\n\nEdit: State sanctioned, obviously. I don't think we need to indulge in a discussion about whether criminals do crimes.", "Jeez, thanks for that reminder. I was under the impression that they were creatures from Uranus.", "Yeah, I grew up in Australia until I was five and I remember not only watching song of the south on TV, but zippity doo dah being pretty well known among Disney songs. I didn't realize until I was a bit older that nobody in the US had any idea what I was talking about when referring to it.", "> A lot of the Splash Mountain animatronics was saved from an old attraction called America Sings.\n> \n> \n\nIn Disneyland, Cali, yeah. \n\nI could be mistaken, but in DW and Tokyo DL they were original. \n\n\n>I guess I don't really have a point other than things get decommissioned all the time at Disney so I don't really see it as a mess. \n\nMy point wasn't just about the ride itself, more about the entirety of the situation. \n\nWith that said, yeah, you're right. Rides have come and gone in Disney. \n\nGetting rid of Splash Mountain is dumb though. \n\nIt's like getting rid of Haunted Mansion or Small World. \n\nSome attractions need to be \"forever ones\", because at the end of the day their theme parks are built on nostalgia.", "What would an animators strike have to do with this?", "That’s precisely the movie’s point. It’s admitting, bringing light to those harsh conditions that would later be enjoyed by an unknowing audience….", "I mean slave is still a descriptive word of a person??? what the fuck are you on about this? a slave can be black, white, Hispanic, middle eastern. like he didn't imply a slave was a race or culture? the only implication was reconstruction would imply a black slave but like that isn't racist or presuming in any way. and I mean slave only means people until we find aliens as well. it's a concept.", "I watched it and I'm assuming it's because some of the workers have a dark complexion that it's some manufactured racism.", "It did originally have a tar baby scene that was later changed to Br'er Rabbit being entangled in honey.", "There are things we record and say today that will look terrible in 50 years too ...", "I think you're purposefully missing the point. But I'm in no mood to argue further bc of your unnecessary hostility.", "It aged very well. It's meant to depict the working class for the time, and shows that workers had bad conditions, but they still got paid. The only thing in this movie that you could argue didn't age well are the crows, which is a shame, because they are absolutely the coolest characters in the movie.", "I mean it hasn't been legal in a long time.... they're more slaves today but largely due to increase in population.", "It was released on Laserdisc in Japan in the 1990's. I own a copy. I've heard rumors that is was also available on VHS in the UK. But you are correct. It will never be released in the US.", "Same. I just assumed it was too dark, and the elephants were the focus. I'm glad they didn't remove it. I'd rather have the conversation with my kids as needed. I know to some, talking to their kids about sensitive topics is too scary though...", "the only hostility was in the first two sentences and very mild tbh. my hostile take would be me saying what the fuck are you stupid, what the fuck did you just say like holy shit that is one of the dumbest things I've fucking heard. why did you feel the need to interject that slaves are people? are you wondering that the enslaved thing being talked about was an animal. do you know context clues or are you an sjw that knows jack shit but likes to white knight or whats your dumbass story of getting C's through highschool and blaming the popular people but your woke so cool. like honestly what's the thought process of your response?", "Wow, I heard watched Dumbo in years!!", "It is a dark and ugly side to showbiz, and the scene displays that well. The way the dark characters are “happy-hearted” as they ache, and don’t get pay is problematic for me. It’s pretty gross to say they enjoy what they do.", "‘Darkly ironic’ isn’t what I would call it, nor do I think that it’s a commentary on exploitation, exactly. I won’t even flat out say it’s not racist. There might be some racism in there.\n\nWhat I will sell my grandmother for, though, is that the song is not _cheerful_. It just isn’t: not musically, lyrically, or visually. There is a relentless, hammering tone, it’s written in a minor key, and there is a rather threatening thunderstorm going on.\n\nThe song has a direct successor: ‘The Frozen Heart’ from Frozen. Just as in that song, we have a hostile environment, a minor key, and a hammering tone. Just as in that song, we have a contrast between the hard work of the adults and the comedy antics of the child trying and largely failing to copy them. Just as in that song, this is a scene setter, establishing the circus as a _hard_ place, where the animals and men _work_. \n\nIt’s not to highlight injustice at all, it’s to put Dumbo in the midst of a hard adult world which he can’t control. And for my money, that’s what the lyrics reinforce, too. Men (and elephants, for that matter) who are receiving their low pay and spending it fast, for whom the circus is a hard working way of life, not the fun that the children see. The ‘hairy ape’ reference in the forties applies to any big strong man with little supposed brain. It crops up in numerous films, not applied to people of colour.\n\nThe cheerful racist tropes of the time had rules which occur with the crows but which are all absent here: sunshine, big toothy grins, swingy music, and major keys.\n\nThe scene _might_ be racist by today’s standards. It _might_ even casually refer to racist tropes about menial black labourers happy with their lot working hand to mouth and blowing their wages (though I’d reiterate that I see this as incidental to their being _labourers_, here). What it definitely isn’t is being played for laughs, nor is the (possible) racism in any way what the scene is about (unlike scenes with the crows, or scenes in song of the south). That’s not the function of the scene. Occam’s razor here says not ‘racist scene intended to reinforce sense of cultural superiority’ here. It says ‘scene setter to introduce the Dumbo character in the context of the world he lives in’.", "People in this thread really defending the clip by saying \"they're not black, it's just dark\" and \"well I never thought of them as black when I was young\" like lmfao.", "Please refer to previous comment.", "> manufactured racism.\n\nOr, you know, actual racism", "So I haven’t seen it either but I’ve watched a few videos commenting on it and why it’s criticized. The reason people don’t like it is because it doesn’t show black people as being treated poorly?", "that one was purposefully hostile as I said in the comment? are you dumb? or a troll? gonna guess dumb because i've interacted with people.", "Warner Brothers did the same thing with Looney Tunes; the DVDs have Whoopi Goldberg making a statement about how they're a product of their time, and certain themes were as wrong then as they are now, but were accepted, and erasing those moments is pretending that they never happened at all, which is worse. I think that's the proper way to handle it. Everyone can still laugh at the funny moments, while looking at the offensive moments and thinking \"Wow, people were fucked up back then.\"", "This is what I don’t get. It’s not appropriate because it shows white and black people living in harmony together?", "Just a FYI, that's generally only true of the American market. You can pick them up online because Disney made DVDs for other markets. Just make sure its not region locked (my dad has one because he loves the animation but will freely admit it is a highly problematic movie).", "Thanks. Yes, that's it.", "Accountants aren’t a race or ethnicity or culture either.", ">and are shown to be enjoying it the whole time\n\nYes, that's the problematic part.", "Congratulations on not understanding context", "Would you rather be called a slave, or an accountant? And if you were called an accountant, and only an accountant with the rest of anything else pertaining to who you are erased, would you still like to be called an accountant? Would you appreciate your offspring only being labeled as an accountant for generations and nothing more in passing conversations?", "For fucks sake", "Ebonics or AAE/African American English is indeed a real accent with its own grammar and pronunciation rules, like all accents, though of course it doesn't sound like that anymore. There was a somewhat famous court case in California I believe where this was established because an English teacher tried to fail a student for speaking in ebonics (\"improper English\") in class and his parents had to take it to the courts. That's not a great description, this was something I heard in Linguistic Anthropology years ago, so you'll have to find more info online.\n\nThe crows and their singing is done by white actors, during a time when black actors weren't offered opportunities their white counterparts were given by virtue of being white. That's the real controversy imo. Plus naming them after Jim Crow is tasteless.", "Well, it's an irony at least!", "“We throw our pay away”\n\n“Hairy apes”\n\nVerdict: Racist as shit.", "I get no kick from champagne,\n\nMere alcohol doesn't thrill me at all\n\nSo tell me why should it be true \n\nthat I get a kick out of you", "This reminds me of my marriage. \n\nGood or bad.", "Think that might make you the racist", "Do you even know what you’re saying? Lol", "Not exactly, the reason it's considered problematic is erasure. It's not that it doesn't show former slaves being treated poorly, it pretends that they weren't treated poorly. It further pretends that plantation slavery was a mutually beneficial arrangement that slaves would have gladly continued had the brave plantation owners not been forced to stop supporting them.", "No, slavery remains legal in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States", "Idk, they could always just make some of the men white. Roustabout are just unskilled workers. I just watched an old Elvis film called roustabout that had a main tune about being a roustabout, and most of the people depicted as carnies weren't black. There were multiple ethnicities including black people, but it was mostly about hard working driven laborors.", "They’re mainly talking about prisoners working for little to no pay. That is 100% legal in many places.", "You might want to look into the concept of People First Language to see what the fuck they're on about. You don't seem like you'll like it, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're an adult who doesn't need or want to be protected from uncomfortable concepts.", "So as a kid you were too stupid to understand social commentary so you decided to forever misunderstand this scene and then keep your kids from it as well? Hmm", "It's not problematic. Again, you're seeing something that isn't actually there, go watch the scene again.", "Happy-hearted former slaves", "I think it does not mean they are actually happy-hearted. I got it more as a Day-O vibe song were the singers are proclaiming their terrible situation but with tune that purposely does not match to the situation.\n\nI could be interpreting it wrong though.", "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted. I mean yes but also no. straight from your wiki.", "I think I'm offended.", "I mean that is a whole other ethical conversation than literal slavery with beatings, torture, no pay, and no hope of daylight. Yes it is still slavery but to a pretty vast degree. and I am wholly against US jail systems and prefer Norwegian systems but i'm inclined to assert that that is a whole different argument. With slavery today I would compare to sex slaves in the us. not the penal system which is itself vastly fucking flawed as well but restitution vs being enslaved for your race is different (but not so at the same time with the rates black people are enslaved in the penal system but would require a much wider scope of research and waaay tooo much for a reddit convo). basically while that is entrenched to this conversation I don't think it is a fair on the nose comparison which is what is in the scope of reddit politics before it becomes a slippery slope. I also don't believe that prisons are legally allowed to not pay for work, sure they might work around it a bit but not legally allowed. I think they need some sort of compensation to make it a legal contract to work in my brief and short law experience but they are allowed to choose the compensation as they own the persons rights basically which is fucked. more indentured servant vs slave concept imo.", "It’s a beautifully haunting scene. The whole train scene before this one is campy and overly cartoonish. As soon as it starts raining we get this very serious transition. The darker it becomes, the more realistic the animation is with the use of lightning and it was all hand drawn.", "This whole thread is blowing my mind. I’m Australian too and I actually didn’t know where Zippity Doo Dah came from other than “some old Disney film”. But in my mind it’s one of the most well known Disney songs. I heard it a lot growing up, because I think my Nan had a tape with a bunch of Disney songs on it that I listened to ad nauseum.", "You're tilting at windmills with this one", "🎶Some they may go for CoCaiiinnnnnneee🎶", "It aged perfectly. Carnies are still sketchy as fuck.", "What do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.", "This whole movie feels like an eclectic fever dream", "It's not appropriate because the particular harmony it depicts was a lie once used by one group of people to help subjugate another.", "Jesus fcking Christ", "But was it supposed to be historically accurate? Isn’t Disney supposed to be fiction?", "Very interesting quote to bring into this conversation, thank you! There's so much to be unpacked here, but it would be a ridiculously long post. The short points I hope you will consider though are 1) no such thing as a \"good slave owner\"; 2) \"simple happy life\": if you continue on to read the rest of her essay, you'll see this was a comparative statement. She lived thru the Great Depression and she wrote this at the height of this horrible time. Some of her children went off to war (and died) and the others were struggling so she had no family support and was struggling just to feed herself everyday. The Depression was terrible for everyone but hit minorities even harder than most because they were also still dealing with segregation, Jim Crow laws, the rise of the KKK and other hate groups, and open and acceptable acts of racism from every direction. I'm sure compared to all of this having a place to sleep, food to eat, and someone who was \"taking care of her\" seemed like the good life. \n\nBut, yes, indeed - life is a complicated strange mess :)", "I've heard that Disney execs have FOR DECADES been trying to figure out a way to release just the animated scenes so they could make some more money from it. Fantastic animation!", "You’re the one thinking it. Calling someone an ape has nothing to do with their skin colour.", "I don't think that matters. If your 'fiction' is just a representation of a lie people use to hurt other people, then it's an extension of that hurt.", "None of that has anything to do with the colour of their skin. You can call anyone an ape, people all over the world struggle because capitalism pays them shit wages, quit grasping.", "It's funny, though, it's never seemed to be that the Roustabouts in DUMBO are necessarily all black, they're GREY in the sequence & seem to intentionally be just faceless muscle, which us perfectly appropriate, I feel.", "Back when they gave a fuck but didnt give a fuck.", "Wow", "It's not a case of yes but also no, slavery is legal and remains imposed on a massive scale in the US. We're talking literally millions of people. No society in history has imprisoned more people than the US. It remains one of the most extreme examples of racism today.\n\nHave you ever used paint from the US? It was almost certainly made by US slaves. Pretty much all worn US military equipment is made by US slaves. A vast amount of appliances and furniture is made by US slaves also.", "Dumbo had some of the most surreal, emotional, and visually interesting animation I’ve ever seen. Always stuck with me since I was a kid. Yes I see now that these characters are black, but still I think it has the same weight and message as it did before.", "> Some attractions need to be \"forever ones\", because at the end of the day their theme parks are built on nostalgia.\n\nStuff and nonsense, the parks need to grow, adapt, and evolve with time. The question is will Disney put in the money needed to properly revamp or not. The classic E-Tickets are all greatly overdue for major technological improvements and rethemes shouldn't be beyond possibility. These rides were at one time technological marvels, the state of the art of what a theme park could offer, but they were allowed to stagnate in the name of nostalgia after Walt died. Jack Sparrow coming into PotC should have been the start of a modernization of the ride's animatronics, not the end, the whole park could use a Plussing like Alice got for example. Walt was a smart businessman, he knew that offering a premium experience would bring repeat guests and drive sales of merchandise and boost his brand, the problem these days is that every executive only cares about the next quarter and not the long-term health of the company, leading to such failings as the massive cuts suffered by Galaxy's Edge from what was promised to what was delivered.", "I mean that is a whole other ethical conversation than literal slavery with beatings, torture, no pay, and no hope of daylight. Yes it is still slavery but to a pretty vast degree. and I am wholly against US jail systems and prefer Norwegian systems but i'm inclined to assert that that is a whole different argument. With slavery today I would compare to sex slaves in the us. not the penal system which is itself vastly fucking flawed as well but restitution vs being enslaved for your race is different (but not so at the same time with the rates black people are enslaved in the penal system but would require a much wider scope of research and waaay tooo much for a reddit convo). basically while that is entrenched to this conversation I don't think it is a fair on the nose comparison which is what is in the scope of reddit politics before it becomes a slippery slope. I also don't believe that prisons are legally allowed to not pay for work, sure they might work around it a bit but not legally allowed. I think they need some sort of compensation to make it a legal contract to work in my brief and short law experience but they are allowed to choose the compensation as they own the persons rights basically which is fucked. more indentured servant vs slave concept imo.", "This is just so stressful to watch. I can't watch dumbo, or like any other disney movie from back then. They're just so much darker.", "Yep, my family had it on VHS in the UK.", "Why didn’t they just do what they did before; copy the animation to another film?", "I don’t get it. They call them hairy apes but in the context of big guys doing manual labor that could just as easily be said of white guys. The visual depiction is semi stereotypical but by no means the big lips or whatever that it could have been. No doubt many Disney scenes aged poorly but this is pretty inoffensive even by 2021 standards. The crows from the same movie are 1000x worse", "So the crows are not so covert animated blackface?", "Yeah, isn't that sort of what surnames are?", "Can you articulate what the racism is here?", "This is an important distinction to make, between endorsing racist or other outdated views... and criticism. Even if it's tame or clumsy criticism, intent matters.", "It's not satirical.", "Totally unrelated. Yep.", "If you want to see it, it's here:\nhttps://archive.org/details/SongoftheSouth1080pRestoration\n\nBut it's still not even released by Disney.", "n-n-not tobacco!", ">beatings, torture, no pay\n\nYou are perhaps unaware that if someone in the US attempts to refuse slave work that they are subjected to torture. Again, this is legal. And of course there is no real pay (there is a nominal amount of usually much less than one USD per hour, and in some regions of the US there is no pay).\n\n>I also don't believe that prisons are legally allowed to not pay for work\n\nNo, they are legally allowed to not pay for slave labour. An example of this is Texas.\n\n>being enslaved for your race is different\n\nIt doesn't really matter what the intent is, what matters is the impact. And the fact of the matter is that slavery in the US and the prison systems there are implementing racism on an unprecedented scale.", "If I had to wager a guess, it'd be the black/non-white roustabouts doing the set-up/tear-down with the white ones being your more average carny folk. Working stalls, games, concessions, etc. A black man might have a been a clown but only because he'd have been painted white.", "Not sure what you got from aladin regarding stereotypes. They were all Persian, the poor guy wins, the kind hearted abused old man makes the right choice, and the villian gets banished.\n\nOverplayed? Yes, for effect. Racist? You're going to need a source. \n\nIf an exaggerated but not degrading portrayal bothers you, I expect coco is out, along with Moana. Lilo and stitch?", "We are all conditioned to do shit work for shit pay. Its called capitalism and has worked for ages.", "Everyone at r/antiwork hates this song.", "In reality, sympathy and empathy belong to both the elephants and the men. \n\nThe script was weirdly insensitive to some pretty big issues, like being worked to near death, living in extreme resource instability, and not being allowed to rest or be at peace.\n\nAlso just weird to see all the elephants happily working along with big smiles on a circus tent where they would get whipped and fed shit for a bunch of nutritionally deficient homo sapiens.\n\nCan't wait to see what future generations have to say about how we're handling ourselves here in the 2020's...\n\nEdit: I don't know why I'm getting downvoted for defending black people and elephants. Someone shed some light please", "yikes", "It actually aged very well. I don't think it was designed to paint a pretty picture-- it painted a lot of real pictures that weren't great.. some about animals, some about humans, some about circuses in general... Painting pretty pictures is just perpetuating a lie. Painting a true picture is actually better. I think a picture like this would make kids actually think a tiny bit about the circus, and perhaps bigger issues.. but I think it was brilliant in that it was put in a way that a childs brain could comprehend without being traumatized... A child growing up on this would have a different view of the circus than a child who has never seen it. And I think that view would be a more wholistic view beyond your average uninformed consumer.", "Most of \"Birth of a Nation\" happens after the Civil War, too.", "my g//f in about 2004 HAD song of the south on VHS and she said \"this is my family's fav movie! we watch it every year\" \nWe broke up soon after", "I only learned about Song of the South a couple years ago, and I've gone to Disney World a bunch of times. It doesn't really make any sense because Splash Mountain and zippity doo dah are used in marketing everywhere. They're both iconic Disney landmarks, but there's no shot any child will be able to tell you where it's from.", "That's a good way to put it yeah", "People who see this and immediately think slavery/racism have only one thing in their minds.", "“Affluent White Man Enjoys, Causes the Blues”\n\n-The Onion", "What does \"NOT\" stand for?", "My childhood has been ruined!😱😱😱", "Selective integrity", "Peter pan has a song, sung by caricatures of native Americans, with a chorus: \"what makes the red man red.\" The whole thing is pretty cringe inducing and is arguably worse than song of the south (or equally bad at least). Disney has at times tried to suggest that its not intended as racist but rather intended to represent a young boy’s impression of Indians (and pirates, mermaids etc). Watch it for yourself and i suspect you'll conclude otherwise.", "Also, also Australian. I remember seeing this on TV. Zippity do dah was a big hit for me also. \nI have married an American Girl (We now live in Texas) and just asked her if she was familiar and she is - but she also spent some time in the UK during her youth so that might have skewed her experience.", "No fucking way you just compared Dr Seuss to slavery. They had their Christmas tree sucked up the chimney. They weren't tortured and raped and robbed of their children", "Got drunk while back and the gf at the time took me to Walmart to grab more beer or something. Grabbed this for $10-15 at check line super excited to watch a childhood movie! Got to this scene and even after a bunch of jager I turned it off. Like wtf disney.", "They had literally everything in their homes stolen. Even the crumbs off the floor too small for mice. Don't defend the Grinch, you monster.", "That stuff was just socially acceptable back then. If you live long enough a ton of what you currently do will be seen as racist or sexist too.", "No no, not that. The camp town races!", "I saw Song of the South in the theater. The music was lovely, but the subject matter not so much.", "It's that good old family racism.\n-Peter Griffin", "Man Dumbo was my first trip.", "On Disney+ they play a disclaimer at the start of certain movies, Dumbo and Aladdin for sure I’ve seen, not sure about other movies that may not have aged well.", "Mostly but it does present a racistly stereotyped view of black ppl from white america", "I was drawn to that too. I want to look this up, what is the technique called?", "They all looked Black to me. Just different shades and lighting because of the lamps and diversity of complexions.", "None of that movie aged well.", "In recent years historians have used more person-focused language to talk about enslaved people. Slave is still a descriptor of them, yes. But I think what some folks are trying to say here is that the more humane way of describing them is “enslaved people/human/etc.”", "It was far worse than I expected.....", "Dear god, those comments...", "Wait until you watch [peter pan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGKnCUnAsus) or [lady and the tramp again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYqQs0R3w)...", "I grew up in the US, and I swear zippity doo dah was on some sing-along VHS tape we had.", "I mean for the time, I'd wager it actually was. This scene was spooky as shit when I was a kid. Like most old disney films.", "I remember hearing about them potentially re-releasing it on blu ray for the first time in years. And so all the Disney executives got together for a private screening to see what the film was actually like but apparently the film was so racist they immediately cancelled it and said \"yeah... we're never going to do this\".", "Omigosh....I'm going to curl up in the fetal position and die because this was my favorite movie as a kid and I grew up completely normal, but apparently I was taking part in a great racist narrative that, nevermind the tremendous strides we've made as a nation concerning equality, makes me pretty much a clansman.", "Since when are circus workers all black or slaves?? Circus workers and carnies were notoriously sketchy characters off the grid intentionally. I think it was too expensive to animate faces for a bunch of not as important characters They also worked in the sun and would very tan. More likely PETA might protest the working animals lol", "> If you live long enough a ton of what you currently do will be seen as racist or sexist too.\n\nWhat?", "I have a copy of Song of the South on DVD, but I'm not sure who put it out. I bought it from a place in Savannah, GA.", "You know what else from 1941 didnt age well?\nA Lot.", "What in the wide, wide world a' sports is a-goin' on here?!", "Yup. I always say you to to Disney for the theatrics of the ride. Not the thrill. Most the rides aren't that exciting, especially the older ones.", "Is the tar baby racist? One of my grandpas most loved stories is brer rabbit and the tar baby", "I felt bad for the people and elephants in the clip, working in the rain. Seems like good r/Antiwork ammo lol", "It can be a stereotype and still be true. Did black people work hard as hell for little pay? Yes. Did some sing while working? Yes. Was their treatment unfair? Yes. You can't expect a movie made before integration to be a good depiction of how things should be as we see it today. And as we all get old, the youth of the future will look at our media and think about our backwards views. Also this is the least racist thing Disney had in that movie.", "There are plenty of slurs that were tossed around pretty causally as recently as the turn of the millennium until they became very taboo in recent years, like calling something bad \"gay\" for example. Ever used the term \"master bedroom?\" The realty industry is quickly starting to abandon that term in favor of \"main\" bedroom because of its perceived connotation with slavery. So as OP said, plenty of things you say or do which are totally normal now will be seen as racist or sexist by people in the future.", "It’s the lyrics of the song that I’m talking about and also it’s completely fair to judge the past, that’s the entire study of history. Of course we’ll be judged, no one’s above it.", "...why not? A Roustabout is just a laborer. Yeah it's not a flattering term for a laborer but it's not like a having a black caricature troop starring a Crow named Jim.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThat comes later in the movie.", "I mean, take out the phrase “bossman” and you could catch me singing this about my shit job 🤷‍♂️", "It didn’t age well because we’re more conscious of the racism and social inequity being shown. \nSo the logical counterpart is that the same sort of images that draw no conscientious attention have “aged well”. Which is weirder.", "Yeah like, the whole scene is about shitty working conditions for shitty wages.", "Historic preservation is a thing, though.", "It's blatant racism, not social commentary", "Definitely get a sarcastic vibe", "I mean, I imagine a young boy of the era had pretty racist impressions, so I’m not sure if the defense is a defense.", "That is how society progresses. Things we do now will one day be seen as backwards to people of the future. Using electricity generated by carbon sources? Eating things grown inefficiently? The words we use, the way we greet each other, the music we listen to, the jobs we work. As society progresses, the more just and fair we strive to become. If that ever stops and we think we can't change we are probably wrong. Just keep an open mind and be nice.", "It says in the song that they get pay, but throw it all away. I don't think this song is as racist as they're making it seem. If it was indeed written during a writer's strike, it could be satire on how they should be happy with children enjoying their work, and not complain so much about pay.", "Boy that's a catchy toon, Now it's going to be stuck in my head all day!", "In 1941 the workers in the back of the house doing hard labor would have been black. As this takes place less than 100 years after the civil war the majority of those workers would have had grandparents who were slaves. Not animating their faces is because they weren't important as they were black.", "It says in the song that they get pay, but throw it all away. I don't think this song is as racist as they're making it seem. If it was indeed written during a writer's strike, it could be satire on how they should be happy with children enjoying their work, and not complain so much about pay.", "Because nobody cares.\n\nBut they'll erase Finn from international marketing on Star Wars because they want to be able to sell in China.", "An accountant chose to be an accountant. An enslaved person was enslaved against their will.", "https://www.yesterland.com/ <--got ya covered!", "It literally equates black people with elephants. Edit: you guys did see the editing that crosscut between the elephants and the workers, right? Did you watch the clip? Have a response? No? Oh, ok, downvote away then.", "The animal abuse in that scene is disturbing.", "We work all day, we work all night\n\nWe never learned to read or write\n\nWe’re happy-hearted roustabouts\n\nWhen other folks have gone to bed\n\nWe slave until we're almost dead\n\nWe’re happy-hearted roustabouts\n\nWe don’t know when we get our pay\n\nAnd when we do, we throw our pay away", "That you’re happy hearted to slave away, don’t know how to read or write, blow your money as soon as you get it, are a hairy ape, and I guess representative of your entire race…pretty bold tbh to feel that way", "It absolutely does not.", "Rip DOOM", "The words of the music do not match the tone of the music or the animation. It is clear they are not happy. But having worked hard most of my life, I can say that sometimes singing or joking can make it better. I remember when helping out in Haiti, we started around 9am filling jugs with clean water. We started with 25 men and were down to about 6 by the time we were done, people just sneak off. The 6 of us were miserable, tired, dirty, cut up, and pretty over it. But we were laughing and joking the whole time. No one cared how much work was done the next day, we still had to wake up and do our normal jobs, no thanks at all. But we were able to make the most of a miserable situation. I remember a young officer walked by and said he was glad we were having fun while doing all this work and he was jealous. It's sad he thought we were happier doing this than being in bed.", "Conveniently skipping over the other lyrics:\n\n\nWe work all day, we work all night\n\nWe never learned to read or write\n\nWe’re happy-hearted roustabouts\n\nWhen other folks have gone to bed\n\nWe slave until we're almost dead\n\nWe’re happy-hearted roustabouts\n\nWe don’t know when we get our pay\n\nAnd when we do, we throw our pay away", "> Things we do now will one day be seen as backwards to people of the future.\n\nis not the same as saying:\n\n> a ton of what you currently do will be seen as racist or sexist", "The song literally says they don't know when they'll get their pay.", "Also, is any frame of this movie not terrifying looking?", "Cancel DUMBO NOW! Just like [we've canceled everything else with black representation.](https://streamable.com/bc33b4)", "OMG media literacy is for shits these days. Watch the editing. Edit: \"absolutely\", with no evidence. SURE, downvote away with out providing any analysis yourself, truly you are intellectuals.", "How so?", "Wild hour much white people pushed the narrative that slaves were happy about being slaves. Like this indoctrination still effects so many people today..... Scary", "You ever work two jobs and still have to weigh which bill is more important to pay? Racial imagery and audience prejudice aside I feel like lil Naz could spin this up as a working man’s anthem and nobody would notice right away.", "Maybe they had the chimpanzees helping the elephants. You don't know", "Jim Crowchet maybe.", "The addition of Jack sparrow to Pirates is a fucking travesty. Every scene has \"cap'n jack sparrah\" spouted from every angle. It's so ham-fisted and clumsy. And don't get me started on the vaguely stereotyped latin wife of the mayor or the addition of \"red\" to the auction. \n\nIn principle the ideas of adding jack to the ride, giving the mayor more to do than drown, and transforming the bride auction into something less rapey are good steps, but in execution they're teeth-grindingly over the top. There's no subtlety in the ride anymore, it's just Jack sparrah this and Davy Jones that. \n\nI agree the ride systems could do with a major update, but given that Disney doesn't have a great track record with recent ride updates (pirates and maelstrom come to mind), I think I'd rather they just didn't touch anything lest they ruin it.", "Oh look dumbo is too smart for you too, congratulations", "Making a bunch of them white and changing the ape line would fix the scene, I think, but whether it would be historically accurate, I don't know.", ">roustabout \n> \n>I hear that term in the oil industry and honestly the song is pretty bang on. \n> \n>dont know when they get paid and spend it all when they do. of course with oil industry you get paid handsomely when pil price is high.", "Explain it to me then oh wise one.", "They’re both kinda dumb tbh, but Orwell more than the other guy.\n\nOrwell has certain values that they would like to see other people adopt. In this case, it’s not using labels to refer to people. We actually learned a similar concept in school (I’m in the medical field) where they said we shouldn’t refer to “cancer patients” as such, but rather, “patients who have cancer”. Or instead of “the amputee” it might be “the patient with the amputation”. I think the idea is that the latter is just a little more humanizing than the former.\n\nOrwell tried to share this value but really had no tact in doing so and came off as more self-righteous than anything. As a result of this superior tone the other guy felt kinda attacked and was immediately on the defensive for the rest of the interaction.\n\nNothing productive was achieved, whatsoever. Orwell pissed off the guy that they were trying to influence. We are assuming of course that Orwell does actually care about these things and simply lacks the experience to share their values in a more productive way.\n\nInstead of their originally comment, Orwell could’ve said something like “hey I know this seems really random and probably kind of dumb, and feel free to disregard if this doesn’t resonate. This is just something I feel strongly about and I know everyone doesn’t feel the same way. But, personally, I think it’s important to try not to label people. For example, you might consider thinking of them as people who were slaves, instead of slaves. I know it sounds kind of “woke” and shit, but personally I think it’s really important and is just being respectful of other people. Now I’m not at all saying I think you were being disrespectful or anything like that. And I in no way expect you to agree with me because we may just see things differently - I just wanted to throw this out for your consideration just in case you might happen to feel similarly. And again if you think this is dumb or I’m dumb feel free to say so lol”\n\nI know that’s a mouthful but the idea is to take special care to protect the ego of the person you’re trying to influence (allow them to save face) and also stress their autonomy in whatever it is you’re proposing. If you really want to influence someone else these things should be important to you. The other person must feel fully respected and know that you truly respect their autonomy to make their own decision.", "Try getting the quote right, genius", "Da Camp Town Races?", "White people got no business playin' the blues ever... What the fuck do white people have to be blue about? Banana Republic ran out of khakis? Huh? The espresso machine is jammed? ... Shit, white people ought to understand their job is to give people the blues, not to get them.\n\n-George Carlin", " Bingo", "I believe you mean “temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”", "The song said they were “happy-hearted” and that they “threw their pay away”.", "I wholeheartedly agree with this view.", "They’re not trying to sell Splash Mountain dolls to consumers on store shelves is the reason I’d guess.", "I think the problem is that the workers are referred to as “happy-hearted” while being taken advantage of and that they “threw their pay away”.", "Holy shit", "De camp town lady sing that song, do-daa, do-daa", "It holds a negative view on the enslavement of animals AND humans, proposing both should be free. Do you even know what social commentary is?", "Sure, if you take away all the racial imagery then yeah it just becomes an insulting song for all blue colored workers", "I mean, I think people pointing at Dumbo as a workmof racism missed the entire point. The grown working class black men are exploited, the grown black women (represented by Dumbo’s mother) are shackled and exploited, the unhelpful old black men (crows) start out deriding any thought of their own people rising above their station but ultimately the children escape the bondage of their predecessors against all expectations (flying elephant) and give hope to all. I mean, for crying out loud the final scene is Dumbo in flight, reaching out to his mother who, in captivity, is joyful for her son’s freedom which she herself will never see.", "I mean, just because the song itself can sound racist, doesn't mean the animators working on the film can't do their jobs in an immaculate way. Hell they probably didn't even hear the song until the movie was finished anyway!", "Touch grass.", "That's a frank Sinatra song", "Reddit's such a shit hole. Fucking gotta be upset about everything.", "Whatever dude, you just go ahead and miss the point if it makes you happy. The whole movie is a criticism of the exploitation of blacks and a message about how future generations will rise above the disparity of their predecessors but you just wave your little virtue flag.", "No shit. I was making a joke about the MF DOOM song, 'One Beer.'", "Isn't the point of the scene to show how badly the workers were treated? That's the whole reason for the storm; To show that they had to do back-breaking work in miserable and dangerous conditions.\n\nIf they were working with smiles on a beautiful spring afternoon, then that would be something to cringe about.", "Holy shit! I completely forgot about that scene! Wow", "Why should a movie from the 40s age well? Its a product of its time and thats alright\nThings like these simply used to be the norm and theres nothing wrong with acknowledging this\nIt would be more dangerous if we erased our history so we just repeat it again", "The movie takes place after the Civil .War. They aren’t slaves, which is why the main character is able to decide to leave at the end.But a lot of people don’t realize this and are angry at the movie for the wrong reasons.", "Thanks for highlighting the human and animal side of it. While the motifs in the song are disturbing I found the blatant oppression and subjugation of intelligent feeling creatures to be really shocking and depressing. I'm surprised more people are talking about it in the comments.", "It’s a decent movie. If anything, it paints the redneck whites in a worse light than the black people. And Uncle Remus is a better father than the kid’s own father. And the animated sequences are good.", "I do the same thing and I'm white 😂", "I’ll give it another listen.", "stop sniffing glue /u/rocky_road_to_dublin", "Yup. It was explicitly a purposeful piece of propaganda that retconned the Civil War into the \"Lost Cause\" myth and cast the KKK as pure heroic champions of Christian goodness, fighting against ravening hordes of raping, murdering former slaves.\n\n'Fun' fact: Woodrow Wilson, who was a major proponent of Civil War revisionism himself, screened Birth of a Nation at the White House and sang its praises. Wilson was massive piece of shit, even for the time.", "The animal abuse parts of the film didn't age well...", "SAME!! For the life of me I can’t recollect what it is! I’ll have to call my folks in the morning.", " No it did not", "No it’s not racist and has its roots in older African stories (where sometimes it’s a gum baby). The issue is that racists started calling black people “tar babies”. So now idiots only think of it as a slur, not a story. \n\nIt would be like forcing a dog biology book to never use the word “bitch” because it offends women. Or like using the phrase “let’s call a spade a spade”, which also has nothing to do with the racial slur (the spade in question is a shovel).", "The terribly awkward blurry edits to frame Sunflower out are a travesty. Meanwhile, demon nipples stay in “Night on Bald Mountain”", "Sunflower seeds are a good source of beneficial plant compounds, including phenolic acids and flavonoids — which also function as antioxidants.", "Oh my bad", "Yea, the “throw our pay away” line didn’t sit well with me given that all the workers are black. Definitely seemed to follow the stereotype of dumb/irresponsible black people.\n\nI don’t know why it has to be so black and white. There are some parts of this clip that are a valid commentary on society, and parts that are clearly inspired by outdated, and frankly racist, stereotypes", "There’s no virtue signaling here, just nothing about this is inspiring “We're happy-hearted roustabouts\nHike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike!\nWe don't know when we get our pay\nAnd when we do, we throw our pay away” compared to a Mulan, a Little Mermaid, or a Tangled (to pick a couple of Disney movies)", "Ehh.... it's fine. A roustabout is just an unskilled physical laborer, it's not a racist thing or anything.\n\nA lot of things in Dumbo did not age well, a song about the day laborers busting their ass to put up a circus tent for shit pay isn't really one of them though. Infact, that's probably one of the things about it that's still pretty relatable.", "The last line is \"Keep on working. Stop that shirking. Grab that rope you hairy ape.\"\n\nI mean, that's pretty fucked up.", "I had this same tape but had never seen ‘song of the south’", "Yes, it was very popular and I only realized when learning about SOTS that I never questioned where it came from.", "That’s not just “how society progresses.” Things can get worse. Just ask women in afghanistan.", "I mean... they're happy and throw away their pay. How do you spin that?", "It's only proposing the animals should be free as they are undeserving of their treatment but the black men are not. The black men are shown as faceless mounds of muscle who are happy to be slaving all day and night, proud of their illiteracy and undeserving of their meager wages because they throw them away.", "They \"throw away their pay\"", "I am genuinely allergic, makes me itch.", "Things like this exist and people will still exclaim systematic racism isn't a thing. Word.", "Why do you assume that? By showing them singing an almost cheery song about being workers yet shows the awful conditions and how they're doing work that animals do.", "Saying that the workers were mistreated is undercut by the workers being called happy-hearted, as if they're blissfully ignorant of being screwed over. Acknowledging the bad conditions doesn't make it okay for them to say that that the workers were irresponsible with their money, which in that time period was a euphemism for spending a paycheck on booze.", "It’s honestly shocking to me that people see this scene and think we’re supposed to be “ okay with it.” No you’re suppose to feel unsettled and uncomfortable cuz it is fucked up.\n\nI feel like a lot of art that receives criticism these days is really just a victim of context and people not putting in the effort to understand it", "Son, you know these MIDIs aren't organized!", "I vividly remember singing Zippity Doo Da walking to second grade, but I can’t tell you where I learned it.", "Wow you are dense my friend. Art isn’t for everyone. Have a nice night", "If you liked this, wait until you re-watch the number from Peter Pan, “What Made the Red Men Red?”. Yikes!", "As far as the happy hearted part goes they could mean it with sarcasm. Like “ sure thing boss “ love my job. \n\nMaybe not tho", "I prefer art that isn't full of racist imagery but I understand why it's what you enjoy.", "thats not progress", "Come on man, I am clearly making the point that working class people continue to exploited and expected to be happy about it. The irony being that today’s working class is fully aware of their exploitation and adopts the same mentality as the circus workers out of fatalism rather than ignorance. This scene isn’t that racially charged and their attitude is shockingly relatable.", "They likely took film of the actual process and traced over it.", "YES!! It was, I had it. https://vhscollector.com/movie/disneys-sing-along-songs-zip-dee-doo-dah", "I think it was meant to age poorly on purpose. It paints a picture of some of the most depressing views on racism, enslavement, and animal cruelty especially tied to the animal circuses.", "Somehow, my midwestern daycare had a vhs copy of it and they made us watch it a lot. That and a collection of 40’s Looney Tunes that had some of that good ol ( s/ ) WW2 racism. That and Unico and the Island of Magic, ET, and the Little Mermaid. Over and over.\n\nThat daycare was a weird place.", "It’s nighttime dude. Shading", "When love comes along dont be a shitter.", "in the 90s I went to Disneyland and got the fox and rabbit's autograph, I think the bear might have been there too. this might have also been a fever dream.", "Oh okay so Django is a racist movie then. Probably hate that one too?", "Could be, could be that the song is intentionally self-deprecating, but it's kind of in bad taste because it's hard to convene that it's self-deprecating when someone else is writing it. I'm sure an actual roustabout would find this funny though.", "I was just watching the Sex and the City series this past week, and the number of times I heard the fg word (along with a few other homophobic slurs) spouted by straight white women was appalling. I couldn’t imagine hearing that on any TV show nowadays, and this was less than 20 years ago when it was produced.", "I saw it on TV once or twice. I was very young but I thought it was just ok as a Disney movie.", "And that's the point. Progress can be pushed back on, and it can be regressed.", "> you hairy ape\n\nOh.", "Absolutely. This is a valuable historic document. If you want to criticize the movie, talk about the crows, but this song is a remarkable window into the sad realities of human and animal abuse.", "Fair, never watched the whole thing; movies aren’t my thing. Makes me more sure of my interpretation of the scene though, and on further reading it’s a pretty incisive plot.", "It's clearly the point of the song. The elephants can't sing but they're working just as hard in the same inhuman conditions as the workers for little/no pay.", "Archive has a 1080p 35mm scan with ~22GB, there are some fan projects which fixed up the film and added the best audio tracks available.\n\nhttps://archive.org/details/SongOfTheSouthHD\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBo6swJjYUI", "Did they look happy to you? It's clearly tongue-in-cheek.", "Ugh, that's gay.", "If you look at the words themselves out of context.\n\nBut look at the actual context of the song, its the workers themselves actively singing about how shit their lives are.\n\nThe throw our pay away thing could be a thing, but it could also be argued that they make so little that as fast as they get paid the money is all gone due to life responsibilities (Raising kids, family, ETC. Basically they have no ability to save money because they make so little).\n\nthe hairy ape line is also a clear reference to the mistreatment they receive, rather then glorification or making light of it. \"Keep on working, Stop that Shirking, Grab that rope you hairy ape\" these are the words of their bosses orders.\n\nIt was presented in a way to fit with an animated sing a long song, and theres a line or 2 that may have been poorly written, but I dont think this quite fits the same mantle of glorifying stereotypes that happens later in the film with crows or in other disney films like Peter Pan or Fantasia", "That's genuinely an interesting theory but hard to swallow after watching the scene with the crows.", "> Disney has at times tried to suggest that its not intended as racist but rather intended to represent a young boy’s impression of Indians\n\nThe problem is that a young boy's impression of indians IS racist. The whole impression is because of our racist caricatures going back long before those kids were born. A lot of racism was seeded before the racists were born, and they were never presented with anything different. That's why these depictions are problematic if not presented alongside proper context. They lead to that being the impression that people have of the demographics they're depicting. When media is your only exposure to the people, that media's portrayal becomes your mental image of them. If that media is racist, then your image of them will be racist. So Disney may not have intended to be racist, but because their \"innocent\" impression was formed based on racist caricatures, it's still racist.", "https://youtu.be/KB18jcLDbWE", "Seems pretty obvious that it's meant to be satire about manual labor working conditions. \n\n>When other folks have gone to bed\n\n>We slave until we're almost dead", "OMG. I had no idea what zippity doo dah was about or from! My mum used to sing it around the house when I was growing up. She said it was a song from her childhood. Now I know.", "Lol, you're reacting as if I decided those. It's all Disney.", "I thought the throwing miney away was because their kids wantes to see the circus? Not because they aren't aware of the concept of financially sound investment", "the song wasnt racist at all but the artists who drew only black people as roustabouts were.", "Disney Entertainment Parks are the modern equivalent of the 1980s big three automakers. Disney seems to have no problem selling $140 tickets despite having a park with lots of worn out, half bandaided attractions, not much incentive for them to redo the park and have to sell $250 tickets to pay for it, so they're not going to do it until they have no choice.", "It’s progress through time. As society progresses is not a reference to any specific ideal of society just the passage of time in a society. As we progress through the years things will change in society is a better reading.", "or dead. I'm not as dead as he is, either.", "The line about “throwing away our money” kinda does this viewpoint in I think.", "It's sad that you totally missed the point of this scene...", "Not only that they re-released the film in theatres in the 80s for a limited time. The poof. Back into the vault for good. I would assume it was thinking push the ride attraction. I'm surprised they went that length even though there was some backlash at the time.", "> OMG media literacy is for shits these days. Watch the editing.\n\nHoly shit... imagine being this misguided and criticizing someone else's media literacy....", "Singing things that ain’t so", "Well the notion that it looks like a black baby when it’s literally tar is kind of racist to it’s core, yes.", "I'm pretty sure it had the same message then as it does today.", "> These particular slaves were happy with their masters. I don’t think it’s impossible that happy slaves existed.\n\nIt's not impossible, but it's just a very, VERY small percentage who might have had this experience. I'd doubt that even 1% experienced such an idyllic lifestyle as shown in the movie. \n\nBeyond that there was the whole \"tar baby\" scene, which literally has a racial slur in the name. Beyond that, the actor who played the main black singer wasn't even allowed in to see his own movie because he was black. He died never seeing his own film.", "Tar baby sequence doesn't help when the name has a racial slur in it.", "Recognizing the racist tropes of the time doesn't make you racist, ignoring them does.", "The ride Splash Mountain is explicitly based on Song of the South. Funny story the ride broke down when I visited for the first time and I got to see the back facade of toon town. There were two security guards back there and some assorted trash and cigarette butts.", "But they're not slaves though? They're low-skilled workers and the song is about showing how poorly they're treated. \n\nThe crows, now that's some racist shit.", "\"Things change as a function of time\" is a nonstatement. The entire premise behind the notion of societal progress is that society as a concept* is predisposed towards self-improvement in all categories, e.g. lowering the infant mortality rate, increasing the standard of living, manifesting liberty and self determination, etc. \n\nProgress isn't a philosophical observation, it's a non-zero, non-negative, mathematical constant. Societal regression is its corollary; a non-zero constant that adjusts society's trajectory downwards as opposed to upwards. \n\nThe interplay of these two factors gives us what you're describing as societal progression. I wont argue the semantics of Progress vs. progression.", "Yeah the subtitles made my eyebrows go up a full three inches.", "Capital P Progress is different for different folks on a cultural scale. Progress for Conservatives is not the same as Progress for Liberals.\n\nProgress for Religious Sects is not the same for Agnostic or Atheists.\n\nAs such Progress is debatable.", "Wasn't designed to age. Captured the moment of the time it is set in perfectly. \n\n\nNot everything has to 'age well'.", "I can't really blame Disney. There's no way they could have foreseen how public opinion would change on animal rights. We all thought the elephants were having fun.", "No kind of spin on it. Think of todays world.. What do most of us do? The man knows how to keep you fat enough, and happy enough to stay right where you are still useful to him.. need to pay you enough to stay alive in the rut you're in, but not enough to escape it.", "hey I know this seems really random and probably kind of dumb, and feel free to disregard if this doesn’t resonate. This is just something I feel strongly about and I know everyone doesn’t feel the same way. But, personally, I think it’s important to try not to label people. For example, you might consider thinking of them as people who were slaves, instead of slaves. I know it sounds kind of “woke” and shit, but personally I think it’s really important and is just being respectful of other people. Now I’m not at all saying I think you were being disrespectful or anything like that. And I in no way expect you to agree with me because we may just see things differently - I just wanted to throw this out for your consideration just in case you might happen to feel similarly. And again if you think this is dumb or I’m dumb feel free to say so lol", "That this has as high of an upvote ratio that it does is really quite depressing tbh. Unless english is not your first language it's not fathomable to me how one could completely miss the context and point of the scene.\n\nIt's literally a scene condemning racial inequality. I mean there's grasping at straws, but this ain't even it... this appears to have gone completely over people's head.", "What has been removed from Fantasia? I don't think I've ever seen it full.", "IF YOU LIVE LONG ENOUGH A TON OF WHAT YOU CURRENTLY DO WILL BE SEEN AS RACIST OR SEXIST TOO", "The 1940 version of Fantasia also contains some incredibly racist scenes.", "Calling a master bedroom, a \"main bedroom\", is pretty gay.", "Reading between the lines, the stuff they're throwing their pay away on could be what's keeping them happy hearted.", "I’d argue it aged really well. The whole point of this scene is to show the darker side of the false happiness we are shown. The under appreciated, hard-working slaves both men and animals are harrowingly pushing through the heavy rain to set up a tent, being mistreated all for the sake of someone else getting money for their hard work all while presenting a happy, carefree aesthetic to the general public.\n\nSounds a lot like... just about everything honestly.", "TBF, I think if this was about carnies without regard to skin color it would probably be hitting the mark.", "Exactly. Its not just about what its depicting, but how its depicting it. And we can’t just remove the ugly stuff because its ugly.", "Ah, I see someone else has read Stranger in a Strange Land. \n\n\n\nWeird book.\n\n\n\nInteresting parallels with the whole circus thing, too.", "\"throwing your pay away\" is typically a euphemism for booze", "Don’t remember watching it as a kid but if this scene induces a feeling of injustice in child brain then this scene achieved it’s goal. The comments are scary here. It’s not racist to show racism.", "already when we baby the wash brain us to see the animal is slave for us \n\nshit place need to nuke all the world", "I had the soundtrack of Song of the South on vinyl when I was a kid. I remember bits of the music, some scenes, and the voices, but don't recall ever seeing the movie. \n\nThe stories were indeed based on African folk tales. The ones I had read had a mischievous spider, 'Kwaku' Anansi in the role B'rer Rabbit plays in the Disney versions. Anansi catching the unseen fairies (using a figure made of tar) was part of the larger tale of how Anansi stole stories from the sky god by accomplishing three crazy tasks.\n\nThis morphs into B'rer Rabbit and the tar baby.\n\n I wish someone would make a proper animated movie of the real folktales.", "It aged really well. The whole context of the scene and the lyrics was how miserable slavery is and how evil it is.", "Gonna see Miss Eliza, gonna go to Mississippi", "That stereotype probably didn't get created out of nothing though. It's weird to agree with the rest of it and then think it's not possible some uneducated laborers weren't smart with their money.", "You know, whenever someone pulls out the \"moral relativity\" argument, I like to say something along the lines of \"yes, you're right- relativity is a matter of persepective and this is very important to consider when evaluating people of different historical backgrounds- so let's absolutely consider the perspective of (and this was the subject the last time I had this conversation) the mothers of the young men Columbus sent home with their arms chopped off and hung from their necks on a string.\n\nHow did slaves evaluate their masters when they were caught in the act of escaping, and their masters cut off the front halves of their feet?\n\nWhat moral perspective did black people use to judge Disney animators/producers when their children were presented with such examples of the kinds of work typically reserved for black people?\n\nArguments about moral relativity fall apart at lightspeed when you consider the moral perspectives of the exploited and the victims.\n\nWhen it comes to relativity, perspective is the ONLY thing that matters. Who's perspective you choose is a reflection of YOUR character- not the character of the person you are evaluating.", "It was rereleased in theaters in like the 80’s and did very well at the box office", "Until recently, I believed zippity doo dah was from Bambi", "this is why machines were invented", "You're wrong & an ignoramus. The best way to positively influence others is to laugh at and shame them first. Then if that doesn't work, confuse them. Any other method is inferior & inefficient. /s", "Long tall Sally by Little Richard is similar", "Don't they do sound first then animate to sync it correctly?", "You don't even have to live that long. Look at just about any comedy from the early 2000's and count the number of times they casually call someone a \"fag\". \n\nThe reaction ranged from completely unphased to mildly irreverent at that time. Same movie made today only 15 years later would be a swan song for those actors careers.\n\nFirst one that comes to mind, the cult classic Ryan Reynolds movie \"Waiting..\"\n\nRewatching really puts in perspective just how quickly culture, society, and what we find funny changes.", "Ok, my point is in it's time it was seen ok. Many of our current cultural outlooks will also one day be seen in similar fashion. It's not a question of integrity because integrity implies you know better. It is ignorant to hold someone from another time to the standard of today. Literally every human ever born lived in \"modern times\".", "Everything is fucking “racist” on Reddit. I see absolutely no finger pointing going on in this video. People just need to chill out!", "Jesus Christ, you morons, \"big hairy ape\" was not an insult directed at black people or about black people. It was a generic insult to refer to any dumb burly male. It had nothing to do with color. You're the same idiots who would've attacked Howard Cosell for calling a football player a monkey.", "Didn't they erase Song of the South?", "🎶 I’m tired 🎶", "I remember watching it at school when I was 9 - it was a film print (early mid-80s). I can only remember Zippity Doo Dah.", "That's very strange considering \"master\" has a myriad of different meanings. It's like not liking the word \"Germany\" because Nazi Germany was once a thing.", "The \"happy hearted\" lines juxtapose pretty heavily with the other lyrics (slaving to death, can't read or write, etc) and the dreary, rainy visuals. We're not supposed to take that lyric literally, rather I think it should be read ironically.", "You're right - the criticism of films like Song of the South isn't that they accurately depicted black people's mistreatment, it's that they suggested black people were happy with it all. This scene from Dumbo isn't problematic because of what it depicts, its problematic because of the lyrics, suggesting they blow their money and don't deserve better treatment.\n\nWe can only hope that one day we look back at today's labour practices, (which exploit poor people in a similar fashion) with shame.", "Hey there brother, I see you speaking logically and without emotion on Reddit.\n\nI'm gonna need you to go ahead and stop that shit right the fuck now. \n\nSigned,\n\nAll of Reddit.", "So retarded amirite", "My Nana had it on DVD, what?", "Except the ringleader is arguably \"dark skinned\" and pretty much runs the circus so take that as you will.", "A lot of slave owners had good intentions but were products of their times. That's no excuse for owning slaves.", "It is alive a kicking in Disneyland Tokyo...they have a display for it and everything.\n\nJust saying they erased it from US, but it is still around internationally...at least it was in 2018 when I visited Tokyo Resort.", "booooooring", "How dead are you?", "They clearly are not happy - it’s definitely meant ironically, even at the time.", "People forget that this isn't an invented language and could actually be heard in those times. \n\nYes, shots were taken through those characters that were revealing of the times in which they were written, but they weren't inherently designed to be vehicles for putting down black people.", "Yea but to many on here the world = us", "I can't believe I actually saw this in the theater. I was so small and all I remember is that song Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah.", "Nah bro they’re singing and pitching a tent with the boys, they’re having fun.", "I don't really see the racism.\n\nThe scene is clearly casting the situation as negative.\n\nIf it were a bright and cheery song about how cheap the labor is because of how we're using slavery and animals to get the job done, I'd get it.\n\nBut this is clearly framed to be a negative thing all around, and pretty sad to watch. \n\nIs the issue that they used brown characters, and you don't like that?", "People are serious and pk is not sensitive everything over the same threshold, without thinking why.", "I don’t know but this cartoon is too scary, I mean some of the scenes especially those where Dumbo is tripping are not for kids to be showen. Whole cartoon is strange full with anxiety and bad moods. So guys if you have kids make them a favor and don’t show him this abomination of cartooN!", "My very first paid job (no work permit required, cash only), and some years after, was to help setup the annual county fair. This song, by itself, is incredibly accurate. Most of the traveling labor drank their pay and later ate the rest at the Huddle House. I suppose the part that didn't age well was making all the people black?", "To be fair carnies are still a thing where I live and they aren’t a specific race. They definitely don’t know when they’re getting paid blow their money on alcohol and are often dudes who can’t get other work because they can’t read etc.\n\nSo other than the race side of this (which here isn’t a thing as we didn’t have slaves) it hasn’t changed a lot in that industry here.", "The funny thing is, they play zippity doo da and feature the cartoon mascots of Song of the South at ~~Big Thunder~~ Splash Mountain (can't remember if that's the right one) in Disneyland\n\nEdit: corrected the ride", "Hah, well, I be done seen 'bout everything...", "I'll never understand the obsession with applying new world standards to the old world beyond feeling good about all the amazing progress we've made.", "What should they have done differently? Pretended the workers back then were all white?\n\nThis doesn't disparage any race or slaves. It clearly disparages slavery. And uses our more common empathy for cute, cartoon animals to embolden our empathy for other people.", "Exactly. The criticism is so selective of this. They are all toiling away in a thunder storm to erect this huge tent , singing about how their backs are breaking and they’re nearly dead… but “let’s look at that one line where it says they’re happy and will fully ignore everything else. This proves Disney intended for us all to think these guys LOVED doing this work and didn’t need any money because they’d just throw it away!!” This is like the beginning of a cancel culture argument.", "> The Blues didn't start because Black folks just felt sad one day in their middle class, well off lives\n\nSo you mean to say that their being [part of a group](https://youtu.be/9n6Cv45ia0c) who was expected to [work themselves to death](https://youtu.be/VoRnce4nUAo) is what lead to the incredibly [sorrowful songs we know and love](https://youtu.be/85BvT5X6WSo)? [How sad.](https://youtu.be/OjLSf8y94fU)", "I think that’s a really good pathos/ forced empathy argument, but it doesn’t address that we still don’t have an objective metric on what is or isn’t moral. At the end of the day we still have to shot call what is or isn’t moral based on a gut feeling. We don’t have an objective ruler to compare an act against, and so what is or isn’t moral is always going to be a social construct, a.k.a. defined by the society of the time.", "The whole working in a thunder storm and driving rain, at night, telling us how they’re nearly dead, backs are breaking, working night and day… that’s not… that’s not enough for you or the average American to understand that maybe, just maybe, the words aren’t to be taken at face value? Maybe there’s critical thought that needs to be applied?", "Singing upbeat songs in the face of turmoil is not remotely unheard of in actual history.", "The movie has an ugly undertone of racism that is impossible to shake. The idea of the \"well treated slave who really is more like a member of the family\" is ignorant at best and racist at worst. There's a reason Disney is so embarrassed by the film they are redesigning a ride in Disneyland to get rid of their last connections to it, including removing Zippidy Doo Dah from their parks as well.\n\nI watched it just a few years ago and it's almost jarring how the racism comes in from left field. I'm sitting there, enjoying a story about Brer rabbit and then suddenly they're using racial slurs and talking about tar babies. That's what's so bizarre about the film. I recommend seeing it on archive.org.", "..... you are missing the sardonic tone. They aren't happy. They sing about being happy sarcastically or to bow to \"the man\". There's not an ounce of sincerity in the proclamation of happiness.\n\nIt's like dark trench humor in the middle of a war, men talking about being happy to serve as their feet rot and their friends die around them. Dude, it's sarcasm.", "Are you responding to the film or the OP's shallow interpretation of its dark commentary?", "From wikipeter:\n“Roustabout (Australia/New Zealand English: rouseabout) is an occupational term. Traditionally, it referred to a worker with broad-based, non-specific skills. In particular, it was used to describe show or circus workers who handled materials for construction on fairgrounds. In modern times it is applied to rural employment, such as those assisting sheep shearing, and positions in the oil industry.”", "Hard to watch, but animated so beautifully ….", "How we raise animals for meat consumption is considered horrible by a fringe portion that we think about as \"extremists\", and acceptable by most of society (although cringe worthy).\n\nSome day soon, the extremist view will become mainstream, and factory farming will be called the greatest crime ever committed by mankind.", "Absolutely. I'm only 35 and the changes since I was in school have been enormous. The way people talk about race has for sure evolved, but the differences when it comes to LGBTQ stuff are enormous. It's hard to overstate have different it is. Can't Hardly Wait is another one where a character getting his comeuppance involves getting called a fag and laughed at by a room full of people. Even look at Judd Apatow movies. Would he make a scene where characters riffed on \"you know how I know you're gay\" today? Probably not.", "Just pitching a tent with the boys!\n\nr/suddenlygay", "1941", "Why hasn't it aged well? It's depicting history.", "I personally took it to mean they were sarcastically quoting what the management thinks of them, but to each their own.", "Not quite that much but, like, more than zero. After these many decades, I'd like to think I'm [well on my way.](https://youtu.be/IGMabBGydC0) That's said, unless you're [Max the Miracle Worker](https://youtu.be/d4ftmOI5NnI), it's kind of binary, right?", "Americans do not give a shit about native Americans. I feel they are the most intentionally overlooked minority group in the US and what was done to them is arguably on par with slavery.", "I mean, Chinese is a real language but someone pretending to be Chinese saying “Ching chong bing bong” is still offensive. AAVE is a real dialect but the accent used in minstrelsy is parodying it.", "This is what happens when you are raised on a diet of marvel movies", "I still have it on VHS lmao great film", "> so let's absolutely consider the perspective of (and this was the subject the last time I had this conversation) the mothers of the young men Columbus sent home with their arms chopped off and hung from their necks on a string.\n\nColumbus was mostly considered to be a piece of shit by his contemporaries.\n\n>How did slaves evaluate their masters when they were caught in the act of escaping, and their masters cut off the front halves of their feet?\n\nThis type of behavior is why slavery was seen as barbaric even in it's time. But, if we're considering the moral relativity: barbaric treatment of criminals was thought to be the moral way to treat them, since it was thought to deter others from committing similar acts.\n\n>What moral perspective did black people use to judge Disney animators/producers when their children were presented with such examples of the kinds of work typically reserved for black people?\n\nMostly they didn't care, because they lacked the luxury of even imagining a world where these depictions were not the case\n\n>Arguments about moral relativity fall apart at lightspeed when you consider the moral perspectives of the exploited and the victims.\n\nNot true. Morality is subjective, even when considering those perspectives.\n\n>When it comes to relativity, perspective is the ONLY thing that matters. Who's perspective you choose is a reflection of YOUR character- not the character of the person you are evaluating.\n\nSpoken like someone who lacks an understanding of both history and philosophy.", "I thought the crow scene was worse.", "'I should go to ~~Twitter~~ Reddit and virtue signal about this'", "You have heard of montage, right? The way in which meaning is built between edits of similar imagery and framing? What do you think happens when a shot of black people hammering a tent pole is interspersed with a shot of elephants doing the same, you think that's an... accident?\n\nThe film very clearly equates the workers with the animals. It's not entirely a negative connotation, because it does at some level depict said workers as being treated as no better than animals, thus criticizing \"the powers that be\" (whomever they are), but at the same time it naturalizes that power dynamic by having the workers insist they're to some degree OK with that.\n\nThis is the kind of clip you'd show a first-year film student to get them to get past High School level abilities to analyze film. It's really pretty obvious.\n\nEdit; as usual, downloaded by people who have no response. Edit2: still no one, just downvotes. Don't know anything about an issue? Just downvote anyone you disagree with! It's democracy!", "They aren't updating it because it's racist. They are updating it because kids today have zero idea who any of the characters on Splash Mountain are. \n\nThey've updated quite a few rides to current IP lately.", "Nah it's not gone over their heads, the people upvoting and commenting agreeing this is racist have likely read the top comments refuting that, they chose to ignore what doesn't fit their narrative. People love to be outraged at the dumbest shit even if it means feigning ignorance.", "Honestly, Dumbo was pretty progressive for the time. \n\nIt's arguably the first time in cinema history that a black-presenting character (the crows) had real lines, spoke to the main character, and actually influenced the direction of the plot. \n\nOutside of Dumbo, anyone too many shades off white were treated as glorified props like servants or slaves.", "Yup. The bit about throwing the pay away definitely comes off as saying that they waste the money anyway, so why bother paying them well and consistently.", "It was also the first time that a Black-presenting character (the crows) had real lines that influenced the direction of the Main Character's story in cinema history. \n\nIf those crows were actual black men there would have been riots for the \"uppity negroes telling Dumbo what to do\".", "This is proved once again by people not actually listening to the song on this post.\n\nHappy Hearted Roustabouts and they are singing about how fucked up it is.", "The real question: were they trying to make meaningful art or were they trying to make something to entertain children? \n\n> victim of context\n\nContext: Walt Disney was a regular at German American Bund (American Nazi Party) meetings in the 1930s and hosted a known Nazi propaganda filmmaker.", "Literally calls the people \"hairy apes\" in the song..", "I hired you to build a railroad not to jump around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots!!!", "I'm positive it was also featured as a trailer on other Disney VHS releases in UK", "I'll always upvote a Princess Bride reference. So you're not yet at the point where I should check your pockets for change?", "Dunno, seems like a pretty accurate commentary on late stage capitalism to me. The question is whether or not the writers had a grin on their face when they were writing it.", "are you feeling all right buddy?", "Inappropriate, but funny as hell.\n\nEdit: Holy crap, that's a funny sub.", "I'm not sure it does. That's part of the trap of poverty--what little money is left over is usually spent to provide some small diversion from a hard life.\n\nOf course the writers might not have intended it as a sympathetic point.", "It was definitely on other Disney VHS's as a trailer. I remember a few scenes from it because of that", "Wait, when did spade become a racist term? I only know that a spade is a shovel", "Wax museums are racist because it's racist to say white people look like candle wax.\n\nWould it have been racist if it had been chocolate? How about dirt? Clay?", "i'm 35 and sometimes when i'm around my 2 best buddies from preschool i sing \"zip a dee doo dah, zip a dee ay, my oh my, it's so good to be gay, plenty of johnsons, coming my way, rub on the johnsons, come on my face\" because i have sang that to them for the last 20 years.\n\nI realize it's insensitive but sometimes they finish the song when i stop and life is so depressing sometimes that it's nice to have a giggle between friends and i of course don't do that around anyone else.", "Realities of the past don't age well? You're gonna hate this Hitler guy", "george would laugh with this joke if he were still here", "What a noble but utterly simplistic world view. When it comes to societal morality, indivodual morality is hardly relevant since it will be set by the masses backed by the people in power. It is so easy to pass moral judgment on people of old whilst completely ignoring the ostracision or even risks for health and family that going against the stream would entail.\n\nDo you care about realism and fairness in your opinions? \n\n1) Go take a deep look in your own eyes in the mirror. \n\n2) think about some of the more potent social injustices of our current society (treatment of the poor, wastr & pollution, bio-industry, stuff like that).\n\n3) think of what would be considered morally just on this topic in 50 to 100 years.\n\n4) make the changes in your life necessary to adhere to your enlightened morality.\n\n5) discover that you are completely unwilling to take the significant, structural and lasting impacts on how you can live your life.\n\nFollowing your own morality on grand topics, independent of the course of the society you live in, is not a casual decision. It is a life's work. \n\nTo me, everybody who shits on the morality of old only manages to show their own intellectual immaturity.", "Maybe you missed the point?", "thanks for the catchup man, this deserves some awards", "> so let's absolutely consider the perspective of the mothers of the young men Columbus sent home with their arms chopped off and hung from their necks on a string\n\nNot actually the best example, though it's used as such often in \"moral relativity\" discussions, because even in Columbus' time Columbus was pretty much seen as an extremist monster, lol. He was literally arrested and imprisoned for how he abused and mistreated the people in his colonies.", "And then he had a stroke and his wife had to run the country in secret.", "Splash Mountain not Big Thunder. But they are finally planning to retheme it to the Princess and the Frog and last year they removed Zip-a-dee-doo-dah from all resort playlist so it seems Song of the South will soon be totally gone from the parks", "Lol; it seems pretty blatantly obvious but in practice it's pretty hard to do (in my experience, anyways)", "I thought it was Jungle Book until I read this thread!", "Had the roustabouts not been exclusively dark-skinned I'm not so sure. The description of carnies working for basically nothing and then wasting all their pay, being unskilled laborers and everything pretty much describes my Dad who - other than when working for carnivals, circuses and fairground events, was homeless, had nothing, and wasted his money on booze and pills.", "What ethic group is \"spade\" referring to? I'm in my late 30s, have some pretty openly racist family members who'll drop them N-bomb without flinching, and I've never heard that.", "And both will soon be gone. Zip-a-dee-doo-dah is no longer played anywhere in Disney parks and Splash Mountain will soon be rethemed to The Princess and the Frog", "They're referring to [Sunflower, the character in Fantasia (left)](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y_DSV90aJ1o/hqdefault.jpg), who is a centaur personal servant/slave to the white centaur.", "It's a shanty after all. They're not all true accounts.", "As opposed to carneys of other races being stereotyped as being frugal and wise with their money?", "A bit of both I'd say. Whilst you're totally right that they regularly updated rides and that kids will much prefer a Tiana themed ride, Disney did refer to the problematic aspects of current theme in their statement about the retheming\n\n> And with this longstanding history of updating attractions and adding new magic, the retheming of Splash Mountain is of particular importance today. The new concept is inclusive – one that all of our guests can connect with and be inspired by, and it speaks to the diversity of the millions of people who visit our parks each year.", "And singing about how they don't know when they'll be paid, how tired they are, and they just have to keep going, but in a cheery way. It seems satirical to me. But I'm looking at it with 21st century vibes.", "That's not what the scene is intending to be about at all. It's setting the tone that animals are somewhat anthropomorphised and work with the humans - not to communicate that they're being victimised etc. This is why there's a shot of the camels carrying poles too. There's a tendency to read a lot into this film, in our current climate, that isn't really there.", "I once saw a documentary of an industrial level chicken farm and it broke my heart. I haven't bought non-organic chicken and eggs since.", "> as usual, downloaded by people who have no response\n\nLol people know better than to continue pointless arguements with clearly dense individuals. It's like the old saying, \"don't get into a fight with a pig. You'll both just get muddy and the pig enjoys it.\"", "Nothing aged well in this day and age, just don't look up", "Y’all know it’s fictional right?", "How is this clip in itself racist? It's a black guy singing a song.", "> suggesting they blow their money and don't deserve better treatment.\n\nCan't everyone relate to having a shitty, badly paid job and blowing all their money away every time they get paid? Why are you adding a whole other element to it out of your ass?", "The scene is at night, and the men could be dark to appear more anonymous. It's not 100% obvious that they're all ethnically black men.", "Right, you don't have an argument, got it.", "> “grab that line you hairy ape” but that is the workers themselves quoting their boss\n\nOr they could be saying it to an actual ape, since the animals are helping them set up. Are black men hairy?", "I doubt they will consider factory farming to be worse than the Holocaust. At least factory farming is supplying food, it isn't like factory farming is done just for the cruelty of it. \n\nI am not saying horrible things aren't happening at factory farms but I feel it gets a bit creepy when you view the lives of other animals as more important than your own species.", "I think it depends a lot on background and outlook - as a non-American I remember them as big, strong men (of no particular colour) who were a little frightening but 'good guys' anyway because they worked together with the animals. Also, the term 'happy-hearted roustabout' is translated as 'circus workmen' and the translated song doesn't mention the 'never learned to read or write' bit either. Minute changes the sum of which might change the overall feeling of the song. Perhaps?", "I was going to say that was honestly pretty impressive and very detailed.", "Please excuse my ignorance, I am trying to learn, what is wrong with this ? All I see is some big strong men hitting pegs. \n\nAt work we wouldn't get an engineer to sweep the floor.", "True. Just seems to be what OP was implying.", "So, just to confirm, you think we're making this up? What do you suppose Disney added a disclaimer to the movie confirming this negative stereotype?", "Are you sure it’s not anthropomorphism on the part of the elephants? \n\nOn the one hand, they’re smothered in applause and attention and on the other, they’re forced to endure hard labour, not unlike the discourse around slaves at the time. Dumbo was released in the same year/decade as discussions were held in Congress surrounding the continued peonage in southern states.\n\nDespite slavery being outlawed in the late 19th century, southern states conspired to detain black labourers without recompense. This continued until mid 20th century. \n\nWhat is being said is obvious. The elephants are slaves.\n\nWhat isn’t being said is less obvious. None of the “roustabouts” have faces. They’re all dark skinned. You could argue that this is typical of roustabouts (low income/low skilled workers), one of many. So many as to be nameless and faceless.\n\nOr, you could say, that despite law changes and a slow societal shift - black people were not worthy of recognition. Not worthy of a face.\n\nEither way I wouldn’t say it hasn’t aged well. It’s an honest depiction. Work songs and tunes were often used by slaves and low income workers to make their work environment more tolerable. This is true among chain gangs, slaves, seamen and farmers. The song is most likely satirical. Many work songs (sung by black American slaves) were satirical. Often catchy and irreverent melodies with dark or sinister lyrics. Suicide, murder, bondage etc.", ">So, just to confirm, you think we're making this up?\n\nMaking what stuff up?\n\n>What do you suppose Disney added a disclaimer to the movie confirming this negative stereotype?\n\nSeemingly for overly sensitive people like yourself, although maybe there are some views in the movie that are outdated.", "100% yes.", "imagine animating each line on the coil of each rope.. goddamn", "And another part of it was that this was made in the 40's, thats just how IT WAS back then. It's a product of it's time, I'm \"ok with it\" because it represents a time period that we have long since passed.\n\nIt's a piece of history like any other, it should be looked back upon and learned from which is why I'm perfectly ok with this existing and being watched. It would do everybody a major disservice to just delete this piece of history and wipe it from the planet, including for people of color.", "In those days, more often than not work that whites found to be too hard or degrading were given to blacks. Perhaps the animators were simply documenting that reality.", "Yes, excellent, I think this is all great analysis. The fact that the \"camera\" avoids their faces is a great observation. And I love the idea that it's not about the workers, it's about the elephants... which is... almost worse? Because it assumes the black workers are in a sort of \"this is natural\" situation, and we're going \"oh these poor elephants\".\n\nAt the same time, this association does indicate the film is saying \"hey you, white audience, you're already siding with the poor elephants, maybe you should be siding with black workers\". \n\nThat said, an \"honest depiction\" doesn't mean it hasn't aged well. If it's an honest depiction, but doesn't meet our current perspectives on race, class, etc., that's literally what \"hasn't aged well\" means. It doesn't mean that the film is \"wrong\" in some way, it means that the film is of it's time. \n\nOof, I love this kind of discussion, too bad people here want to say it, like, just shouldn't happen, because they don't like it. \n\nI also feel like you'd have to watch the entire film to get better context, and I haven't seen Dumbo since the 70s.", "They even sing about getting paid. Its in the lyrics. Is black men working the same as slavery by default?", "Ok I'm confused about what exactly it is that you are trying to say?", ">Context: Walt Disney was a regular at German American Bund (American Nazi Party) meetings in the 1930s and hosted a known Nazi propaganda filmmaker.\n\nWell Disney also made anti-nazi propaganda as well.\n\nI hadn't heard about the nazi party meeting stuff, but for hosting a Nazi propaganda filmmaker, you can learn from people even if they are complete assholes. You can separate the art from the artist and all that. I'm not sure on the timeline of events but his knowledge might very well have been useful in making the anti-nazi propaganda that disney made.\n\nEDIT: Looked it up and at the time Hitler had banned all American movies and was also searching for a way to get Disney movies back into Germany, it's also possible that Disney invited him to discuss that as well.", "You’re really focusing on the hyperbolic statement to emphasize their point instead of the point itself here.", "You know \"racist and sexist\" is included in the phrase \"backward\", right?", "Because people try to get offended by everything they can.\n\nIt's sad actually. It's a scene of hard working people who even sing about getting paid so there is no slavery. Work was hard at the circus and that is shown in this scene. Nothing wrong with that. There are people working hard today as well around the globe. If you get paid for it there is nothing wrong with that. All people who work outside will sometimes work in harsh conditions.", "That blowing your pay as soon as you get it is not racist, and is not limited to black people.", "How is it racist when its historically accurate? The crows could be called racist but the roustabouts im not too sure. Maybe them singing about being happy while working a back breaking job instead of them singing a blues or spiritual may be a little bit racist but its a kids movies so i cant really blame them. Also people would probably say its racist to have them singing blues or spirituals because people like to find things to be upset by nowadays", "“Grab that rope, hairy ape” \n\npulls shirt collar😬", "your not gonna ruin this classic for me. fuck you.", "Thats one movie ive always wanted to see. If the laserdisc wasnt so pricey itd be in my collection lol. Im curious if its content is actually wholly racist or if it suffered the same snap judgement that Raplh Bakshis Coonskin did when it first came out. Only to really be appreciated when it was rereleased under the name streetfight to positive critical reception", "I don’t get why they thought kids would want to see this part of the story, like are kids mad for rastabouts.", "Think of a deck of playing cards. \"Black as the ace of spades\" was a common phrase a hundred years ago.", "> Same movie made today only 15 years later would be a swan song for those actors careers.\n\nThis is total bullshit. No actors get cancelled for saying lines from a script.", "As long as you were a white male (that wasn’t Jewish). Look it up, y’all", "What’s wrong with Aladdin?", "Are you telling me black people were _not_ working backbreaking jobs in terrible conditions with uncertain pay in the 40s? Depicting the reality of struggles is not racist.\n\nIs it some kind of american thing? That you see fiction as always being views of how the world should be? Because thats so narrowminded. You are allowed to show lives that are bad without asserting that they _should_ be bad.\n\nIf I show footage of a mantis devouring her mate does that mean I love cannibalism and think everyone should try it?", "Amazon?", "Uh…NO. It was actually implying the black men didn’t deserve any better because they would just throw their money away anyhow.", "Ah, yes that is true.\n\n\nDunno why they only included coloured people on that team, tho. That's sketchy to me", "I have really no idea what op means. Is it because they are black? Is it bad to show black people work in horrible conditions (like millions, if not billions of people all over the world do)?\n \nI really have no idea what op is upset about here.", "Context aside, the animation is stunning.", "Damn i never thought about that.", "I HATE that they would always pretend they were happy slaving away until they died, and that they threw their little money away.\n\nAlso \"hairy ape\" oof", "Scenes dont need to be \"fixed\" to fix it is basically ignoring it happend. A beautiful thing about films is that they are windows to the past", "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs was Warner Brothers though.", "Idk disney is surely not a good company but their movies are great, always have a deep Message and point out the problems of our society.", "I think the only time I’ve ever seen the word Fag be used with any impact was in an episode of Will & Grace, when Will calls Jack a fag behind his back. Jack overhears and is hurt by the comment. \n\nHonestly, as a British kid whose first encounter with the word as a slur was listening to Eminem and not even knowing what it referred to for the first couple of years (it’s slang for cigarettes in the UK, FYI), that episode was an eye-opener. I saw it years after it’s first broadcast, probably in the mid-2000’s.", "It works the other way around.", "Is depicting racism itself racist though? The most racist part of this i see is the \"hairy ape\" line which yes, was likely meant as a racist comment, but also something that could have very likely been said to black men working a job like this in 1941 which is when this movie was made. Watching these men toil in the storm and mud even as a kid i always felt bad for them even with the positive tone of the song.\n\nLook at the scene all together, the song is happy but the scene is not, the men and elephants are both being worked like dogs, this is a big theme in the movie for the elephants, couldnt it be metaphorical in a way? I look at this scene (the crows as well) in the same way i do Ralph Bakshis Coonskin, a commentary on issues using exagerated themes and animation. Id say it aged pretty damn well. When watching a movie or appreciating any old piece of media for that matter its important to keep in mind the time it was made in.", "Why not? What’s wrong with the scene? I remember my old military days where we all worked together as a team on the flightline in crappy weather where we were either de-icing aircraft or shoveling snow or doing aircraft tows all day long, it was satisfying work. We worked hard and afterwards we played hard.", "I don’t know why this got any upvotes. It’s not true at all. There was pervasive racism at the time but Disney creators were not monsters. In fact the roustabouts are a bit of a subversive nod to the plight of the worker in general, from a staff that would soon attempt to unionize.", "[They did edit out the centaur from Fantasia.](https://allears.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Sunflower-Centaur-Fantasia-3-700x512.png)", ">If suffering is invalidated by more suffering, only one person gets to feel bad", "Throwing your pay away is relatable to anyone who worked in hand to mouth conditions like that. That’s the way it was in coal camps, for example, you were never allowed to get ahead.", "I don't think the skin color is necessarily the first priority, but class. It's describing people who have no other option than to do the shit-jobs, to work in horrible conditions.\n\nThe race comes after that: People who where in this class just typically were black. And back in the day, if you'd have a white person and a black person, the white one could choose and the black one couldn't (Or more precisely: couldn't afford to choose)", "Plus it was made in that time, 1941. so it was just the reality of things. Acknowleging he fact that racism itself existed in forms like this isnt itself racist. I think a lot of people fail to understand that nowadays. I'm not sure if these depictions just make them too uncomfortable or what, but i wouldnt say that they havent aged well.", "That hairy ape in the end might be a bit too much", "Seems more relevant than ever IMO.", "I’m only 29, but growing up, people threw around “fag” and “retard” all the time. They were some of the most common insults. Especially on Xbox live lol. That and fucking my mom.", "Also the analphabetism part?", "OP thinks that anything that acknowledges negative history is bad. Pretty naive.", "Also 35, and on a commute to work a few years back I rode past a school during early june, and saw all their windows decorated with rainbows and various pride flags (Trans, bi, pan, etc) that the kids made\n\nI was astounded. When I was a kid, the only references to gay stuff ever mentioned were schoolyard insults. We've come a long way, it makes me happy to think about all the people who, like me, didn't have a word for how they felt growing up (or one that wasnt just universally accepted as an insult) now get to learn that its okay if you were born different.", "Wow! Point taken! It would not be the first Disney footage with racial undertones. Unfortunately, a reflection of societal norms, at the time.", "It's much easier to start with the sound and edit to it rather than trying to dub something you already made", "They're not slaves, just very low working class, it says they work like slaves and get low pay which they waste, implying they drink or something idk", "Dumbo is bad because black people have bad jobs. I'd like my 1940s America to be more inclusive. History should be changed to meet the modern expectations of my social media pals.", "Is it racist? Or would people say it's racist. It's nearly 100 years old now and has black people in major roles. I'd say that's pretty progressive.", "Might partially be a cultural thing. I didn't realise they were black until I was older. They were just figures in shadow to me as a kid.", "There didn't seem to be any lip syncing or something. They could have had temp music or just the tempo of the song", "They did this in Fantasia- but it’s super time intensive.", "It was widely circulated in the bootleg VHS market and the tape trading scenes of the 80s and 90s. I remember my dad finding it at a flea market when I was around 13 or so.", "My grandmother still says it", "Bingo. Yes African Americans had is really fucking bad. There isn't any way to minimize that. The issue is they weren't alone and for some reason that gets minimized or forgotten. Early German and Irish were slaves. The Chinese? Are we going to just keep skipping over the Chinese?", "Marry Poppins was actually my guess the other day when my family was playing a Disney guessing game. No one counted me wrong so I guess we all just felt it fit haha", "For those saying they aren't slaves, you're wrong. \n\nSlavery never died in America. Just because you get a paycheck doesn't mean you're free.", "you forget we're on the internet and people don't think.", "Too bad Disney forgot about that sentiment when they praised the people behind the Uighur camps in the credits of the Mulan movie.", "I mean we went from slaves to a black president in a century or so. Pretty impressive, honestly. Shows you how quickly generations can change things.", "What was it about this scene you found that didn't age well?", "i dunno, i feel like it's aged quite right. i mean they're pointing out how inhumane the treatment of the animals are, and at the same time they're shining a light on the inhumane way people looked at black people back in the day. yea there's some racist undertones to the song, but that helps hammer home the point to me. it's also a nice mirror to dumbo's innocence at this time. he's just happy to try and help out, not realizing how fucked up it was.", "Pretty sure they were showing Song Of The South on TV in the UK, [as late as 2004.](http://forums.cgsociety.org/t/song-of-the-south-airing-in-the-uk/776714) I remember it being on in the 90s at least.", "And bless Disney, the most litigious company on planet Earth, who will sue a daycare or anyone who crosses their path, for not actively prosecuting the many, MANY bootleggers who have kept this film in unofficial distribution since the 1980s. \n\nYou can't find it on the major sellers like you used to, but for a long time bootlegs of various quality were found on eBay, Etsy, Yahoo Auctions (yes, I know I'm old) etc. and they were never taken down. It was freely traded around on Kazaa and now is easy enough to find with a simple Google search. \n\nI think in the end, Disney just wants to pretend it doesn't exist and the more publicly and aggressively they go after SotS the more attention it brings up. \n\nIn about 20 years, the film will be public domain and anyone with a print can release a copy of it (assuming we still have any physical media then) or stream it or what have you.", "I'm not sure those characters were even supposed the be black, it was just night time lol", "I dont think they are black tbh", "i think the only thing is the lyrics. where they say \"we throw our pay away\" which implies some things. but otherwise i'm with you. i think it aged quite well.", "It doesn't have to age well. Scenes like this really happened and erasing the past from media does not make the past go away.", "This song isnt racist though lol. I'm not even sure those characters are \"supposed\" to be black, I think they have dark skin because its night, I dont even think they have any faces. People want to find racism in everything it seems (although in truth the rest of dumbo definitely did have some racist parts)", "What do you think im saying?", "One thing that holds up is the quality of the animation. Still unmatched today.", "OP is the one that gets offended for other people 😂. Go read the top thread on r/askreddit.", "So THAT part did age well. If you want to know how to put up a large tent...", "Can confirm, my Gran has a VHS copy. I’ve always been tempted to eBay it as a curio, but it would either be bought by a mad racist or have ME tagged as a mad racist, so it just stays in her spare room cupboard.", "I never owned it but it was a trailer in like half the VHS tapes I owned at the time.", "calls him a \"hairy ape\" too", "Have you ever read of mice and men? The whole concept of migrant workers and low class manual laborers of that time was they’d take their wages and blow them on women and beer. It’s not a race thing, it’s more about class.", "Dumbo is a frightening and depressing movie. When I was a child I was so disturbed during the drinking scene lol", "Our generation thinks we invented irony and sarcasm. Infact we're the worst at it. \n\nThis is clear satire. They're singing about how much they hate their job and their boss, and the awful things he says to them, but they're forced to play along as though they're happy.", "I still don't get it at all. People working shit jobs is still a thing of today. Even more so than in the 1940s where a shit job often could give you a house on one income.\n \nThis just seems like a political karma farm from op.", "I’m guessing OP is thinking more of the lyrics than the actual depiction? Roustabouts singing about how they work so hard to watch kids smile versus getting paid or whatever the lyric was. Maybe that’s it? No idea.", "Yeah, it's not always as easy as it seems even when you're actively trying to do so, but all you can hope for is for everyone to try their best and continue to grow from there.", "I don't get it either... Its a song of the roustabout life, who are labourers that are worked hard and historically in poor conditions, I'm not seeing the imagined issue", ">I feel like a lot of art that receives criticism these days is really just a victim of context and people not putting in the effort to understand it\n\nYep, it definitely happens. Same with comedy too. We've probably all watched or enjoyed something recently that future generations will find something offensive about.\n\nI can see the satire in this scene. Of course, satire is particularly prone to being misunderstood without context.", "Pitching tents in the rain, working all day and night, blowing your pay, this sounds just like army in my experience.", "Some of them appear blue/grey which does support that", "Yeah quite possible they didn't have the finished song as it's quite a big production, some sort of stand in is possible, just saying it's easier to sync the animation/edit to the music than the other way around.", "yeah seriously. OP does not understand the meaning of the term age well. There are a few other scenes I could think of that Dumbo has that would be better candidates and I havent even seen Dumbo", "I for sure had it on VHS as a kid. I'm 38 and I was very young, so young as not to know it was bad, but I distinctly remember having it on tape.", "I mean Xbox/PlayStation online probably aren’t much better still. They also had all the casual racist comments kids could think of despite that very clearly not being OK.", "Spade is a slur on black people (as in “black as the ace of spades”)", "Disney has a LONG history of weaving racism and anti-Semitic sentiments into their films. Walt Disney was a massive antisemite. \n\nLook at this for instance - this is a clear example of antisemitism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqraKAJAQ-4\n\nTo the same extent, the black characters in this film were depicted through grossly exaggerated minstrel stereotypes, quite literally in front of you eyes. Did you miss the part where the term 'hairy ape is used?'\n\nTo reverse your question, what purpose would it serve if Disney were subversive? There's a reason why Birth of a Nation was the first blockbuster ever created.\n\nRacism in that era equalled profit and also cemented a national conscious. It was purposeful.\n\nBe critical and vigilant!", "I admit that OP does have seem to comfused it and as many here, saw the word \"slave\" and a dark complexion and Dunning-Kruger effect did the rest.\n\n\nBut anyways: If it makes no sense to you then you should read about how 1940s black people had it. Could they buy a house? Yeah, a shitty one on a poor neighbourhood with other poor people. And who were the other poor people? Other black folk. When a white man could work hard on a construction site to provide for their family of 4, a black man doing the same would be lucky to get enough to not get stupidly in dept. Everyone would fuck them over not jost because of their skin, but because of their low class, which back then was lower than lowest class if your skin was white (hillbylly red necks basically)\n\nSo think about it first as a class struggle. And then you ask \"why is this lowest class disproportionally black?\", then you play the racism and racial prejudice card. Only people who's racism in America is about eugenics is KKK and neo-nazis. The rest are racist by proxy by hating poor people.", "Don’t forget the idea that they’re “happy-hearted” and don’t know how to read or write. Kind of implies they’re simpletons.", "baby-animal labor is no laughing matter", "You’re going to call out a scene from Dumbo and it’s not the [Crows scene](https://youtu.be/_v2exWrsGOc)????", "Yes, and the Disney lawyers have yet to take it down", "Quick, someone get offended", "I wonder how they got a baby elephant to do that IRL", "I re watched the American Pie movies recently and my god they haven’t aged too well either. Amazing how fast social norms actually come and go.", "Everyone in this thread completely deciding to overlook the fact that they are black and the lyrics demean them. That’s why it didn’t age well. It’s racist. If it were only about class why aren’t there white folk then too? And why shouldn’t standards on the perception of race be applied to the past? The only people who benefited from the way black people were negatively treated in this country (and still are) are white people. It was wrong then, even if to white people in power, it was normal.", "Isn't that part of the song to contrast carefree children going to the circus being the only way these guys get paid for their backbreaking labour?", "You have a strange definition of satire.", "Is this some sort of newer slur? Or highly regional? I hate having useful terms co-opted by assholes", "The people arguing \"it aged well\" are definitely WASPS lmao.", "The song is written by white men acting like black slaves who say “we can’t read or write but we’re so happy hearted. We work all day to throw our money away, we’re happy hearted. We pound away all day and hurt our backs but all we need is eggs and bacon, we’re happy hearted”\n\nThis isn’t satire. They literally are trying to paint a picture that they are uneducated, dumb, bad with money, and that’s why it’s ok they just work to get a little bit of food to barely survive because if they got paid and treated well, it would be a waste since they’d just throw their money away. They’re better off just being treated this way forever because they can’t manage to help themselves. It gives an excuse to keep them in poverty and to be slave like because they are to dumb to manage on their own, they need a master to take care of them. This is text book south slave owning brain washing. \n\nIt was bad then and it’s bad now. That’s why Disney puts the disclaimer on before acknowledging how this wasn’t ok then and it’s not ok now, but it’s important to let you see what history was like so we can learn from it. Not erase it and act like things were never bad back then. \n\nNot sure why everyone here thinks there’s not a single thing wrong with this song except for Disney. Disney is the only person in this conversation here acknowledging how racist this songs intent is. What’s wrong with you people?", "I'm not sure if happy hearted was ment as sarcasm here considering the rest of the song is them complaining about their backs nearly breaking and trying not to fall asleep standing up.", "It dates back to at least the 1960s. You’ll hear it in old TV shows (Monty Python, All in the Family). It’s referenced in Clerks II. \n\nIt’s actually refreshing that people have never heard it. Trouble is if you say “call a spade a spade” around an old-timer in the wrong setting, you might get called a racist and have no idea why.", "I'm 23 and watched mean girls for the first time this year and man a lot of the jokes did not age well, but it lands differently for someone who's watched it their whole life and loves it", "We watched it on VHS in high school so they 100% did at some point", "The internet is just speeding things up.", "The OP doesn’t understand irony.", "Not another one of these posts. What is it with Americans and guilt?", "Agreed, this scene is so real. It used to scare me as a kid, haven't seen it in years. This movie is actually quite brutal in its way. Funny how so many people seem to think of these as just kids movies when there are some aspects you can't appreciate till we're older.", "'Look at how we upvoted all the wholesome memes and condemn discrimination! We're changing the real world! We did it, Reddit!\"", "Fuckin yikes. There's something incredibly wrong with you.", "wtf why not??", "Yeah that’s the worst part of the song.", "At the very least they will almost always animate mouths to dialogue after audio so that it syncs. Most animation is first storyboarded out, then dialogue is recorded (sometimes the other way around), then an animatic is put together (storyboard panels are sequenced for timing) and then they move on to the final animation process. The only time I can think of where the audio would be recorded after the animation is for foreign overdubs, for obvious reasons. Incidental music can be done last, but not in a Disney musical where it's so integral to the animation.", "Did you not just watch the video...?", "Nudity from the centaurs scene.", "Heavens! Imagine, ignorant labourers being portrayed as such!", "Rotoscoping if you were talking about the animation.", "What?", "I think you have misunderstood what satire means", "Poor choice of examples, and also partly incorrect. True different subsets of society will progress at a different rate, but they are still progressing, all society is. \n\nProgress is not debatable. It is a phenomenon inherent to human existence just like life, and death.", "The problem with woke people they want to forget the way it was if a movie based in the 30's wasn't that way we would know it's bull shit. The scene itself was one of the first of it's kind. Probably woke up some youths. This op is the kind of woke that wants to see movies where in the 1920's the police captain was black and was answering to a woman judge so they feel good about themselves. In reality they are just white washing history so they don't feel bad.", "FWIW Disney Plus has also put out a message prior to the start of the movie that addresses and acknowledges that the depictions of cultures was wrong then and it’s wrong now, but they left the content in to spark conversation about it.", "I agree. But I think I'm coming from a place of letting kids experience a movie today in the same way kids experienced it in the past. Like taking dangerous chemicals out of food.", "Yyyep. Fun fact: Did you know the term (please excuse the language here) \"What a gyp!\" is racist? It's something everyone said where I grew up. No one knew that \"gyp\" is short for \"Gypsy.\" Turns out that phrase is extremely racist in origin. \n\n'Funny' enough, even my racist grandparents didn't know. They would have happily used the term to be racist if they'd known, but even they had no idea.\n\nSo that was an unpleasant thing to discover. Sometimes I still use the phrase just out of habit, and then have to immediately apologize once it hits me what I just said.", "Yes, the one that hasn't aged well is What Makes The Red Man Red from Peter Pan: https://youtu.be/f7yE8TKUB_M\n\nI posted it on this sub but it was removed because it truly is terrible. Disney doubled down on the racism of the original play by writing this original song.", "I imagine most people back then that worked these kind of jobs did not know how to read or write.", "This is so cool, I didn’t know that. I guess it also sucks because I use that phrase a fair amount, maybe time to use it less haha.\n\nWhen I was younger I really liked the word spook. Ghosts are cool and spooky, and I had a vague knowledge that it was something you called CIA cronies. I did not know it was a racist term for black people, bummed about that one", "I think you linked the wrong cartoon lol the one with the big bad wolf as the Jew stereotype is another one\n\nhttps://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/walt-disneys-three-little-pigs-1933/", "Must have had to look extra hard to find a flying one for the later scenes", "Apologies yeah, thought it was this one where the wolf adored himself in traditional yiddish garments to 'deceive' and the little piggies and then break into their house and ravishing them. If you locate this stereotype within the socio-political era of the time, antisemitism was so widespread and Disney did nothing to challenge it, instead perpetuating it in their cartoons. \n\nExactly the same occurred in Dumbo. Racism in America was wide spread at the time and it still is. Disney never challenged the racism in that era but infused it into their narratives compounding racist ideals. I'm failing to see what is so critically reflective of this scene? \n\nWhat we're shown is the inhumane conditions the elephants go to and feel sympathy for these animals. The black men in this scene are depicted as 'enjoying' these conditions as they are 'natural' to their lives. \n\nCheck this though: \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqraKAJAQ-4", "Oh no you see Waiting is still very funny.", "I did not know those were the real words!", "Interesting comment to go along with the “we love to work like slaves” song presented in the post", "I don't think hiding history from kids is a good thing tho. Especially with this scene. It's not meant to be a happy scene, the song is light hearted but has lyrics that allude to cruel treatment and is set in a dark tone. I watched this movie obsessively as a little kid, and I remember watching it I always felt bad for the men and thought it was sort of a scary scene. Idk I have major problems with studios and directors changing works years after the fact too so maybe that's part of my feelings on this too. It's a big part of the reason I started collecting physical copies of media I like. I think experiencing the original work is important. There are of course cases where editing after the fact enhanced a movie as well. But I'm rambling now and definitely should not have smoked this morning lol", "It's the lyrics of the song. The workers (they aren't slaves) are singing of how hard their job is but its all they can get since they are lazy and wasteful with money. So it's not really depicting history unless you think early 20th Century black laborers were actually lazy wastrels that deserved their shitty life.", "Well here are the lyrics\n\n>Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! \nWe work all day, we work all night \nWe never learned to read or write \nWe're happy-hearted roustabouts \nHike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! \nWhen other folks have gone to bed \nWe slave until we're almost dead \nWe're happy-hearted roustabouts \nHike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! \nWe don't know when we get our pay \nAnd when we do, we throw our pay away \nWe get our pay when children say \nWith happy hearts, \"It's circus day today\" \n> \n>Muscles achin' \nBack near breaking \nEggs and bacon what we need (Yes, sir!) \nBoss man houndin' \nKeep on poundin' \nFor your bed and feed \nThere ain't no let up \nMust get set up \nPull that canvas! Drive that stake! \nWant to doze off \nGet them clothes off \nBut must keep awake \n> \n>Hep! Heave! Hep! Heave! Hep! Heave! \nHep! Heave! Hep! Heave! Hep! Heave! \nHep! Heave! Hep! \n> \n>Swing that sledge! Sing that song! \nWork and laugh the whole night long \nYou happy-hearted roustabouts! \nPullin', poundin', tryin', groundin' \nBig top roundin' into shape \nKeep on working! \nStop that shirking! \nGrab that rope, you hairy ape! \nPoundin'! poundin'! poundin'! poundin'! \nOh \n\nThe way I've always interpreted this song is the negative lines;\n\n\"We work all day, we work all night We never learned to read or write\"\n\n\"We don't know when we get our pay And when we do, we throw our pay away\"\n\n\"Work and laugh the whole night longYou happy-hearted roustabouts!\"\n\n\"Keep on working! Stop that shirking! Grab that rope, you hairy ape!\"\n\nAre things the roustabouts hear, or are told by their masters/bosses.\n\nI see this song as a work song complaining about their working conditions low/no pay and the harsh treatment from their masters as well as the indifference/ignorance of the customers.\n\nI've always seen this song as a condemnation of the conditions roustabouts are made to work in, and since they are all black, the song is a stinging commentary against the exploitation of black workers in America during the 30's and 40's.\n\nThis coupled with u/JudgeHoltman point in a different comment thread\n\n>Honestly, Dumbo was pretty progressive for the time. \n> \n>It's arguably the first time in cinema history that a black-presenting character (the crows) had real lines, spoke to the main character, and actually influenced the direction of the plot. \n> \n>Outside of Dumbo, anyone too many shades off white were treated as glorified props like servants or slaves.\n\nShows Dumbo, for it's time (1941), is quite progressive and provides a stinging rebuke against white male dominated society especially against people of colour and women represented by the matriarch elephant society.", "\"Well, it was pretty progressive in that they were only like slaves\"", "Don't get it twisted, I agree 100%.\n\nJust hadn't watched it in several years and I found my self surprised at how many lines I wouldn't have paid much attention to 15 years ago, just hit different.", "Oh of course, so progressive with the racist crows and almost slaves.", "If you think this didn't age well you should probably not look into Disney's other movies from this era", "Am I the only one who thinks it's ok that it is disturbing? I don't think it's a bad thing to show how black people were forced into menial jobs with virtually no pay and were essentially 'slaves' despite slavery ending?\n\nA little dark for a kids movie but probably accurate enough to portray people being mistreated.", "i swear i have a singalong vhs with that song on it from the 90s. ill see if i can dig it up", "The song implied the workers were dumb people that worked hard and were happy to work hard, it also implied they wasted their money and also called them apes. In no way was this meant to flatter the workers.", "RIP original Splash Mountain.\n\nI get why they changed it, but [this is so fucking catchy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwBk1FZpHM) and there's nothing racist (I guess if you really squint Bre'r Fox is vaguely black-coded but eh) about the Bre'r Rabbit story in and of itself. But like a lot of other good things it's tainted by context.", "I didn't find the song racist at all, everything the song says applies the same to primarily white roughnecks in the oil fields. That they were all animated as black might make it racist, but even then, were they predominantly black at the time? Wouldn't depecting a true to life black person dominated job (at the time) as all white people be racist too?", "I'm pretty sure that song has played on the World of Walt Disney in the 70s and 80s. Just that part, not the whole movie.", "I don't think they were slaves, they sing about getting their pay.", "It's on Pirate Bay. I downloaded and watched it for free.\n\nHuge disappointment. No one was whipped or anything. The black man was the good guy!\n\nThere was nothing wrong with it at all.\n\nPretty boring, actually.", "I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the line where it says “catch that rope you hairy ape” and a black man just caught a rope. I don’t think it’s the pay…. Haha", "It kind of was which says more about how awful things were back then.", "Go to any worksite with roughnecks of any nationality, they do throw away their pay. In Alberta the bottom rung, no education, laborers are nicknamed \"professional money spenders\". They go out to camps, work for 2-3 weeks and head back to the city with 10k cash after-tax, after bills and blow it on giant TV's and bar bills. By the time they have to head back to the camp, they're bumming money to buy smokes.", "Wasn't their point that it was going to be considered the greatest crime ever committed by mankind? I thought that was their point, not that it would just be considered bad. When your hyperbole takes your whole point up, maybe it's time to stop being fucking cheeky and just say what you mean.\n\n\"They said he was a murderer but really they meant he ate meat\" is fucking stupid. That's the level of what you just defended.", "The dude said progressive for its time, not progressive now. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.", "Wow, show your willful ignorance some more why don’tcha", "Read it again my guy", "Your comment makes zero sense in this context. Did you reply to the wrong thread?", "It's a \"Happy Slave\" myth. Early Hollywood used to portray black people as only loving hard work, song, and dance. Depictions of the South usually showed the slaves working the fields while singing and happily thanking their master for being so good to them. The whole bit shows them literally slaving away with back-breaking labor for the boss-man and being happy about it that they would do it for free. Even if the animators wouldn't have shown them as being black, the whole song would still be extremely uncomfortable and disturbing.", "Don’t worry, fucking your mom will never go out of style", "Why doesn't it make no sense? You were confused why showing black people doing hard work would be \"poorly aged\" by OP. I tried to explain why", "\"Zippity-Doo-Da\" was on several Disney music collections well into the 90s at least. Some of the animated parts, like \"Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby\", made it into Disney picture books. A friend of mine definitely had one as a kid that was bought in the 80s and came with a audiobook record (\"You will know it is time to turn the page when you hear this sound... ding\").", "Guys who joined the circus might be.\n\nThough I used to erect marquees and and some small circus big tops and it is certainly not a job for the lazy.", "They're very clearly black in this video.", "The animation looks incredible still. \n\nRegarding subject matter, it aged fine. It's a window into what things were like. We can't block out the past, or we forget it exists. So now, when that scene only showed hardship for little reward, now it also shows how racism affected people. The scene invokes emotion that it might not have before. \n\nIt's aged differently than what it was.", "Yeah, I know my skin gets darker at night. In the dark you can’t tell the difference between me and a person of color.", "OP needs to calm down and stop virtue signaling", "Source on the \"very, VERY small percentage\" of slaves who were happy?\n\nYou just pulled that out of your ass.\n\nYou don't know.\n\nEveryone watched Roots and assumes everyone's experience with slavery was cruel and sadistic.\n\nI'm not arguing that everything was all hunkie-doorie; I don't know either, and I'm not pretending I do, but you shouldn't either.", "Yeah, I'm not terribly \"woke\" myself, so when I saw the modern disclaimer, I figured it was just because some people got butthurt over the crows. Then I watched that song with the subtitles on. Holy crap, that was downright offensive.", "Wait till you hear about “Scot free” and “cotton pickin”", "Ropes and pulleys.", "Kind of amazing how the literal miserable nighttime storm conditions in the clip doesn't tip these people off. The scene is pure misery, of course those lyrics are ironic.", "Did you miss the \"For the time\" part or are you being purposefully obtuse?", "I just watched Can’t Hardly Wait a couple of weeks ago, fully enjoying it for the nostalgia factor. Then the “fag” scene came up, made me so uncomfortable. Well, I guess I’m never watching that one again.", "There’s a difference between progressive for it’s time and progressive. Obviously it’s not progressive by todays standards and understanding! \n\nIt bugs me when people assume if they lived in that time period they’d be the lone progressive of that time.", "Animator here. i don’t think it’s rotoscoping, the movements do not look rotoscoped. Rotoscoping often makes characters feel « floaty ». They sure used a lot of references though", "Arguably?", "No. It makes zero sense. Black people still work hard. White people still work hard.\n \nI really have no idea what this is all about.", "I am literally shaking right now.", "It also says the word “slave” while depicting a bunch of black men working, I seem to remember something about that from my history book that might trigger some bad feelings.", "And the account you responded to appears to be a bot.", "An accurate representation of how African Americans, and circus folk were seen by white people of the 1920's and 30's.The animators are pointing to the horrific dichotomy of America. We proclaim freedom for all, we pretend that somehow people who are treated only slightly better then slaves are 'happy'. This was made at a time where Lynching's were still routine, where doctors felt that black people had a higher pain tolerance, where there was forced sterilization of African Americans. There were dozens of horrific racially motivated large scale slaughters of whole communities where black towns, and black homes and black businesses were attacked en masse by crowds of white men. These weren't just KKK members, sometimes they were regular citizens... sometimes police.\n\nThe myth white Americans told themselves for years was the people of dark skin were simultaneously lazy, stupid, unable to behave like 'normal' people... at the same time they were hard working, industrious, capable laborers who endured horrific punishment and treatment and lined up for more. When given a fair chance they made incredible lawyers and doctors and business leaders. White people saw these people as a threat... so the majority created and condoned entire systems to deny people of color advancement, decent housing, government assistance, loans, education, the very basic infrastructure. When my grandfather came back from the war in 1946 There was no GI bill for him, no place for him to find that American dream. He was spat upon when he wore his uniform, threated with death for even looking into the local VA hall. Now the descendants of the same use the higher crime rate among African Americans who for centuries have been held back and down as a reason to further hold them back, and hold them down. They rail against teaching actual history (banning CRT, which isn't even being taught), thinking that it will 'divide us'. That's like being worried you're going to overflow the ocean with a cup of sand.", "I grew up around white folks living in poverty. That’s just what most poor folk end up doing because of the way they think about money.", "Honestly it’s like working in a Georgia textile mill. They’ll work you until everything hurts and all you want to do is sit down. But they’ll be the first one to tell you they don’t have to give you breaks. There are no federal laws governing breaks and most states dgaf either. Especially Georgia. \n\nPay is abysmal, mandatory OT, and it’s so hot year round that even in the summer, when it’s triple digits outside, you try to step outside to cool off for a minute or two when no one’s looking. \n\nWhen you’re not working all you want to do is sleep. When I have a day off like today, I don’t even want to get out of bed. Think twice before you think about going into the world of manual labor.", "Ya, maybe im dense, but it seemed like it was showing how bad their situation was.", "Not even 2000s. The phrase where the use it to describe OP was so common in early 2010s to mid on Reddit.", "Cotton pikin I knew. Where does scot free come from?", "Thanks for commenting this. I also was a little like…. I think OP missed the irony and reality they were trying to show. Don’t think it aged poorly", "Gypsy life is historic", "Are you serious? \n\nYou seriously think after everything I just said that I don't judge my own society' capitalists and racists and authoritarians from the perspectives of their CURRENT victims? Or judge my society of which I am a part and to which I contribute from the perspective of the next generation who is all but doomed to watch the oceanic ecosystem collapse? Just Why is it that you think millennial aren't having kids? You REALLY think we haven't considered ourselves in the mirror? How do you think human society has progressed to where it is? It is BECAUSE we have considered the past and judged it by our standards and considered the present and also judged it by our standards and decided that NEITHER holds up, that change needs to be made, that oppressors need to be overthrown.\n\nYou're right that how morality of a society- it's ever changing standards are determined by the victorious conquerors, the rich, the people in power (among which are the religious leaders), and everybody in the society adjusts their compass based on what they are taught to believe by these people... But the perspective of the poor, the exploited, the oppressed, relatively speaking remains the same, and the closer modern society adheres to their historical perspectives, they more consistent our moral compasses will stay.\n\nBut to me, anybody who can't clearly see a monster for what they are or were has been brainwashed by their society (whether that society was in the past or the present) to worship people they would have only ever known as boogeymen otherwise. I don't judge people of the old south forbeing taught to worship and idolize people like Columbus, for that propaganda... I judge them for owning human beings like cattle, whipping them like cattle, breeding them like cattle, torturing human beings into submission and subservience. And I judge people in OUR society by their willingness to make excuses for anybody willing to levy that kind of treatment against their fellow humans.\n\nThere has never been a time in human history when victims of such treatment have not judged their oppressors more accurately than their oppressors have judged them (justified their oppression of them). Relying on them as a compass is a hell of a lot better than using arguments of moral relativity to justify continuing to worship the monsters of the past when we fucking KNOW better.", "When slavery \"ended\" these are the types of opportunities for black people that proceeded it. Two steps towards progress, one step back.", "The scene is nothing to be offended about.", "I thought it was pretty obvious but the tone / lyrics of the song with the juxtaposition of what's being visually depicted is portraying the exact opposite message of \"we love to work like slaves\".", "The crows were the best characters in the movie", "Sure. Its still payed work and i don't see it as a problem portraying. It's definitely not glorifying it as you can see in the video. There is nothing racist about it. When immigrants comes to western countries and they have little to no education they will get the lowest paying jobs. When the slaves was released they didn't have any education so it was hard for them to get high paying jobs. History was harsh and this video shows that.", "What did you expect from the company that completely destroyed the Star Wars movies?", "Also known as patriots", "Just like certain words… I could name one off the top of my head, but I would be caller racist then, so… All I’m saying is, the one that is closest to the banned N-word in my native, never was an insult… well, originally anyway. Nowdays, if you were around saying it out loud, you’d be dead in seconds in the wrong place, according to a friend…", "My mom imported a copy from Japan on VHS. The only difference that I'm aware of is Japanese subs during the songs.", "Great snapshot of the social values of the day ^^and ^^also ^^today", "Yes, indeed", "I dunno. Republicans say worse than this in public. And now it's not just roustabouts \"throwing their pay away\", all millennials and Gen alpha do they same thing (according to republicans)", "Still 1941. Can only expect so much.", "Do you judge yourself like you judge them? Because I'm pretty sure you don't.", "I just watched 40 Year Old Virgin the other day. That whole movie would not fly today. Like after the friends set him up with a trans prostitute, Steve Carrell’s immediate next line is ‘I’m not a disgusting pervert!’ \n\nInteresting enough, all those actors seem very progressive now. Does Seth Rogan ever muse on his past work while bitching at the common folk?", "My white trash MIL still uses those words and is confused why they aren’t allowed in my house.", "Ya that’s crazy. I can’t believe America used to be a place where you can live and be happy-hearted. Now it’s all Instagram models, Adderall, and a slow, weary march to our death.", "The sentiment can be true and the message still prejudice in a way that doesn’t age well. Some really hurtful and negative stereotypes about black people are proliferated here. The one that stands out to me right away is the repeated line about throwing pay away. This proliferates the stereotype that black people are bad with money, which still impacts the perception of black people today. If this movie came out today, that wouldn’t fly, so it definitionally didn’t age well", "Pretty clearly obtuse. \n\nIs it messed up under the magnifying glass of 2021, yup. Is it progressive for it’s time, potentially.", "Agree to disagree, but doesn’t really matter, just an old disney song haha", "Like the clowns getting fucked up after the show.", "This turd is just being a troll.", "It's not implying that they're simpletons, it's supposed to be a sarcastic gripe about their role.", "Until I was well into my adult years, I just assumed they were gorillas working with other animals. I hate that movie", "Did it carry a negative connotation to it? \n\nIt seems similar to “white as snow” or “pale as a ghost”. I realize though that being white wasn’t looked down on, so there definitely could be a difference.", "Oh I love you, I do this to all the songs. Make them as horrible as possible.", "Because of Dumbo I absolutely hated circuses as a kid. Any time I hear about a lion, tiger, elephant, mauling/trampling it’s owner I get a little happier; circus affiliated or not.", "Lawyers are though. (And I don't mean jewish, which, If we really wanted to talk about old Walt, that would be the one Disney really hated.)\n\nImma let myself out.", "The labor movement would have still been at the forefront of politics in 1941, which is what this scene is about.", "The lead crow was voiced by a white guy named Cliff Edwards who also did the voice of Jiminy Cricket in Pinocchio.", "It's a kids movie. Most adults can sense satire pretty clearly, but kids take this stuff at face value. If this scene truly is satirical, then it would go over the head of the kids watching, giving them a wrong idea of the characters in this scene.", "I can think of so many “workin man” country songs that have some permutation of “I get my pay and spend it all on drinking and then it’s back to work go hum.”", "Brilliant post. If this conversation isn't the perfect snapshot of where attitudes about race really are, without the rancor of triggering catch-phrases, I don't know what is.\n\nI'm grateful for my (hard won) LGBTQ+ freedoms. We clearly still have a long, long way to go.", "I wish I could upload my VHS copy. I think people should see it and understand it instead of trying to act like it doesn't exist. There are some great parts in the movie, there are very very insensitive parts. You have to take the movie for what it is. It's racist. It's, in parts, attempting to white wash and worse. In a vacuum, parts of the film are classic Disney greatness. Most are not anything Disney wants to get involved with. I can pick and choose what were great and overwhelmingly wrong. I think people should have that opportunity.", "Look, look! Black workers, and you cant see their faces! RACISM!\n\nSeriously, fuck off.", "Source? Wasn’t the movie written already before the strike? Are you saying they added in a whole song just to dunk on the striking animators?", "Hattie McDaniel ( a black woman) had already won an Academy Award (for playing a slave) before Dumbo was released.", "Yeah, like I said, \"Black Presenting\". It's still 1941. Can't have a black man taking a job from a hard working white. There's roustabouting to be done.", "This is part of the Reddit hive mind dissonance. Reddit largely leans left and most posts are happy to paint red states as being full of uneducated blue collar workers. “Simpleton” would be one of the nicer words redditors use to describe these hard working people. \n\nBut once you take out the politics and put forward the same scenario with a minority person, Reddit comes to their senses and realizes it’s not kind to insult hard working people and there’s nothing degrading about doing blue collar work. \n\nGranted they often overcorrect like in this thread and suggest there is something dishonorable implied when a person is less educated which is not the case. Many of these people could not read or write, that’s reality and that’s not dishonorable.", "And neither do you if you think that’s what irony is", "The other crows were black actors, so they got something. Sort of.", "This is the kind of thing that should be taught in High School. My philosophy class was started by my teacher placing a book of photographs of lynchings on the desk at the front of the room. He said, \"I'm not going to teach this, because I can't teach it the way it should. You can study this book and you'll understand everything you need to know by the first photograph you see, on page 1.\" His commentary on the ability of any person alive to become evil was amazing.\n\nEvery single student read and understood that book by the end of class that day.\n\nHe also pulled out his personal crucifix that day, from his pocket, and laughed and said this is the only time I can legally show you this and not get fired. Probably the best teacher I've ever had. Super well rounded class. Then we did History of Vietnam the next semester. We learned every side, on every issue in both classes.", "Yeah, and when Obama was elected President solving racism forever in 2008. \n\nSpeaking of movies that don't update well, Hattie did win the Academy Award, but her character was still a slave, and throughout that entire movie Scarlett didn't listen to a damn thing Hattie had to say. Hattie portrayed the character of a slave very well but only because she leaned into every sterotype required by the directors. \n\nStill an achievement, but you're also talking about what may be the only other example of a black character with lines prior to 1960.", "Which is often a euphemism for going to the bar. Keep up", "Obviously not when I have to explain to my roommate why it's not okay to compare slaves in the old south to stock certificates. Why the fuck are you trying to get me to feel sympathy for slave owners Seth?", "If anything you should feel simpathy for them, hearing that they work all day and night, they don't know when they will get paid, because the circus owner probably pay them only if he gets enough money from the shows they do around the country, they are basically a little more than slaves. They are illiterate, but not stupid. Also when they say \"We’re happy-hearted roustabouts\", it looks sarcastic to me, nobody is happy working all day under the rain!\n\nMaybe this song was written to make fun of black people, to mock them, it's totally possible, but today it just shows how hard was their life at the time for many people.", "Lemme guess, dumbo drops the \"N-word\" or something? No wait, dumbo collapses a tent on a crowd of people, murdering hundreds...", "i'm just surprised that you're so riled up about a movie created 80 years ago\n\nthose were different times; if someone made this today, sure, you could be livid about it", "Factory farming is objectively horrible, both to the animals and for the ecosystem. \n\nThe predator/prey relationship is a real thing generally speaking, but factory farming is a horrible abuse of that relationship, and the only moral way forward is lab grown meats. Once that technology is equivalent and scalable, there will be no justification for factory farming treatment of animals.\n\nYou're being hyperbolic about how it will be viewed, there are lots of worse crimes. But they doesn't change the fact that the current system is shitty and needs change.", "Hahaha well said", "> The Blues didn't start because Black folks just felt sad one day in their middle class, well off lives.\n\nugh. I've legit seen people say/type - \"Black people should thank us for the oppression...it wasn't right, but we got rap, the blues and jazz from it. we should get some credit too\"\n\n#UGH.", "What do you call a black man in the CIA?\n\nNothing, if you don’t want to start an argument.", "Chickens are such cute, funny, weird little dinosaurs that are so easy to take care of. Wouldn't it be amazing if everybody just had their own and city folk bought their eggs from suburban chicken owners?", "There's only one beer left\n\nRappers screaming all in our ears like we're deaf\n\nTempt me, do a number on the label\n\nEat up all they emcees and drink 'em under the table\n\nLike, \"It's on me—put it on my tab, kid\"\n\nHowever you get there, foot it, cab it, iron horse it\n\nYou're leaving on your face, forfeit...", "Everyone blows their pay check, but it's commonly (and wrongly) attributed to black people as a way of making them look dumb. \n\nThat's literally what racism is-- bad habits that everyone does but is made to look like a character trait of a specific race.", "The song was the black workers singing about the way they are viewed by others. They weren’t being called those things by Disney.", "I think it should be said, that the dehumanization involved should be acknowledged by calling them slaves. We should view them as humans with rights. They most certainly were humans. To the Master? Not at all. I don't agree with these historians. \"Enslaved\" vs. \"Slave\" to me is the same, a state of complete and total dehumanization. Acknowledging their humanity and then describing their forced lack of it is just... It's stupid.", "Was going to say the same thing. There are other cartoons from this era like the old Popeye or Tom and Jerry cartoons from the 50's and 60's. You could say they didn't age well, or that they reflected social norms of the time. Not just attitudes towards blacks or other races but gender stereotypes (50's housewives), drinking during the day or on the job, etc.\n\nJust go back and watch the first few seasons of The Simpsons which are now over 30 years ago. A lot has changed.", "It is but it isn’t; you think a kid understands all the lyrics and isn’t paying attention to the scene or the baby elephant?", "Yes, negative connotation. Like they’re not just black they’re REALLY black.", "It's not really an attempt at becoming truly objective, but finding a way to maintain a consistent perspective.\n\nEvery conqueror/Victor/capitalist will have a different set of morals by which they will mold society. (Different variation, really, of [insert outgroup] are not actually humans so we don't have to have empathy for them/ they exist to be exploited- by me/us.)\n\nThe perspective of the victims/exploited remains relatively consistent, and considering their perspective allows us to judge or own society in a way that allows us to move forward and make progress.\n\nEg the civil rights movement would never have happened if American society as a whole hadn't seen and judged the history of its treatment of black people as bad.", "I am old enough to remember that you could make your entire livelihood by knowing how to do certain manual skills, like engineering drawing (used to be called a draftsman), which before computers was entirely manual, required special paper, pencils, rulers, board, etc (I actually took a class in it in high school). Knowing how to clean and tune a carburetor could get you a job in any auto shop. Knowing how to tie knots and handle a rope was for more than just the Boy Scouts.", "There is way worse stuff than this in Dumbo. The crows are basically a minstrel show.", "Even so, (which is a big “even”) why put it in the movie? It just plays as the rich movie execs looking down on black people and the poor in general. It doesn’t add anything to the scene, so it’s just disrespectful to be disrespectful", "The song lyrics were written by Ned Washington, does he look like a black man to you?\n\nhttps://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/mastertalent/detail/108781/Washington_Ned", "I stated a fact that countered your statement \"arguably the first time in cinema history...\" That is all I said.\n\nDoes your additional exposition change the validity of either of our statements?", "My mother in law is fond of singing the song \"I Can't Say No\" in a cute way. My kids were absolutely horrified over the lyrics.\n\n\"I'm just a girl who cain't say 'No'\nI'm in a terrible fix!\nI always say 'Come on, let's go' \njust when I oughta say 'Nix.'\nWhen a person tries to kiss a girl\nI know she oughta give his face a smack!\nBut as soon as someone kisses me\nI somehow sorta wanna kiss him back!\nI'm just a fool when lights are low\nI cain't be prissy an' quaint\nI ain't the type that can faint\nHow can I be what I ain't?\nI cain't say 'No!'\n\nWhatcha gonna do when a feller gets flirty\nAn' starts to talk purty\nWhatcha gonna do?\nSposin' that he says \nThat your lips are like cherries,\nOr roses, or berries?\nWhatcha gonna do?\nSposin' that he says\nThat yer sweeter 'n cream \nand he's gotta have cream or die?\nWhatcha gonna do when he talks that way?\nSpit in his eye?\n\nI'm jist a girl who cain't say 'No',\nCain't seem to say it at all\nI hate to disserpoint a beau\nWhen he is payin' a call!\nFer a while I ack refined and cool,\nA settin on the velveteen setee\nNen I think of thet ol' Golden Rule,\nAnd do fer him what he would do fer me!\nI cain't resist a Romeo\nIn a sombrero and chaps\nSoon as I sit on their laps\nSomethin' inside of me snaps\nI cain't say 'No'!\"", "The song Baby Mine makes me ugly cry. I love my mammy", "Yeah but Columbus was imprisoned for being a monster, and there was a literal war fought (by similar super judgy \"moral supremacists\") over making sure one human can't chop off another person's feet to ensure they can't run away.\n\nIf the people of their time thought they were monsters who needed to be locked up and fought, I feel like it's pretty safe to assume my judgement vaguely justified.\n\nI don't believe society can move forward, make progress without recognizing the injustices of the past, and acknowledging the lack of empathy that was required for that to happen, more specifically the lack of empathy of those who were exploiters.", "Grab that rope you hairy ape… oof", "Some of the older Disney films have plenty of not-so-subtle racism: black coat rack barber for the beast, Sebastian as a lazy Caribbean dude. I’m sure there’s more", "“we don’t know how to read or write”…throwing their pay away. calling blacks apes… yea it’s racist ….asf …", "The pay they received would often be taken right back in exchange for room and board, basically slave labor. It's hard to build wealth when you have very little and no access to education.\n\nThis movie just seems to take everything pretty lightly and the people that profited from this were rich white guys.", "So the people of the time thought there was something wrong with this scene in Dumbo? No one here is saying genocide or mutilation is ok, those are just red herrings you introduced into the conversation.", "And half of them were high A.f. the whole time, lol.", "The movie is clearly siding with the workers here too. This song - contrasted with the animation - clearly doesn’t depict the workers as “deserving it”", ">take everything pretty lightly\n\nIt all depends on how you choose to interpret the video. I do not see anything wrong with it but we are all different.", "I mean ALL OF THAT...and then they close it out tossing a rope to a clearly black dude and the song goes grab that rope you hairy ape? Lmao", "I think you're reading the scene from a 2020 perspective when it was written 80 years ago. You can look at the treatment of Black people in other movies from 1940 to get an idea of the context, but the biggest thing is that from that era there is practically NOTHING presented from the Black perspective. \n\nI don't think this is intended to be written \"through their eyes\"--they literally don't even have faces. They aren't given names or characters. I think it's a misreading to think that the white people making this for other white people in 1940 were doing it with the intention of putting people inside the heads of Black workers. \n\nInstead, I think it's a song you take a face value--the predominant belief at the time was the Black people were very simple. They were \"happy\" on the plantation--they just wanted to drink and laze about all day. They don't really think for themselves, just work and then when they're paid they \"throw it away\" because they're too dumb for any higher-order thinking.\n\nBlack people weren't really given their own \"perspective\" in cinema for decades, and even then... looking back on many movies in the 1980s and 1990s for instance, even watching movies starring Black people were written and directed by white people who scripted them with a HEAVY white perspective. I'm thinking in particular of \"48 Hours\" which was one of the earlier black/white \"odd pairing\" cop film. It stars Eddie Murphy, but the character he plays is a pretty simply conman whose only desire in the world is to get some pussy. There are one or two scenes where he is allowed to have some power, but watching it now it is utterly shocking how his character is presented.", "“Happy hearted” was sarcastic.", "Wow, you know, my entire life (including when I just watched it moments before commenting) I never actually realized they were black. I always assumed it was lighting and tone to make everyone kinda dark, but rewatching with that tidbit and yeah, they totally are. Wow.", "Understandable. However, if they were not colored in any way, the word “slave” would be appropriate for the purpose of the scene. I honestly don’t think that word was used specially for a racial connection.", "> Would you appreciate your offspring only being labeled as an accountant for generations and nothing more in passing conversations?\n\nIs that what I did? I specifically, in context, called \"Uncle Remus\" a slave. \n\n>a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.\n\n\n>\"Johnny befriends Uncle Remus, one of the workers on the plantation\". \n\nThat's the description from Wikipedia. I can go get the VHS from that box of Disney films in the garage. I have no VHS players anymore. \n\nNow, we can argue about referring to a worker on a plantation right after the Civil war as a slave, or enslaved human, until the cows come home. In context, Fo0master up here seems to think, as did the creators of this Disney film, that old Uncle Remus was just a happy formerly enslaved human being, singing Zippity fuckin Doo Dah, and telling all these amazing fables because he was just a happy guy. Which, is an important notion to completely dispell, and really does put Foo into the category of troll/racist, honestly.\n\nI never called you a slave. Or an Accountant. I never called anyone other than a fictitious character a slave. Did everyone get freedom after and during reconstruction? Did every slave get 40 acres and a mule? Did Remus have the right to leave the plantation? \n\nNone of those questions were important. No. Acknowledging his Humanity was. To you. If you read the thread, You'd see there was more than enough humanization occurring. You're just wasting your time on me.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass\n\nEven his wiki refers to him as a slave. You're promoting newspeak and damaging your very important argument.", ">If you live long enough a ton of what you currently do will be seen as racist or sexist.\n\nProbably because it is racist or sexist. Its just socially acceptable.", "Over a hundred and forty years. Guess it depends on what you deem quick.", "Not thru your eyes, no.", "Well put", "I'd love to have chickens but my garden isn't big enough, sadly. Oh, and no cocks - I don't enjoy getting up at sunrise unless I really have to xD", "That's just ignorant. Broad or dame were absolutely not sexist but the way we perceive those phrases has become to be seen as so. Idiot, Dolt, Retard have all become pejorative and socially unacceptable when they started out as legitimate medical terms. Speech shifts over time.", "Dude the rain is so hauntingly realistic in this scene. It gave me chills just thinking about raising a tent in a heavy rain", "Gotcha! Thanks!", "Agree to disagree.", "Disney movies used to be great because they were great for both children and adults. Nowadays all the Disney movies are created for children while adults pay for them to be bored all the way", "“You hairy ape”", "You closing your eyes doesn't make the history go away. The only thing that matters is doing the right thing now, coz we can't make art today with tomorrow's moral lens", "I've heard that more in media describing white WW2 soldiers than black guys. But hey since reddit took on the Tumblr crowd there seems to be a subset of people that go out of their way to find offence", "Whats with the phrase “white trash”? Why do we only specify trash that is white? It always seems to imply to me that people assume non white when they hear trashy and that’s why it has to be specified", "Broad and dame became demeaning ways to address women. When it became demeaning, we tossed them. Idiot, Dolt, Retarded, Moron, those were medical terms first, and THEN they became demeaning ways to address a host of people with non medical issues and medical issues. So we stopped using them. Speech DOES shift over time, and when certain words become racist or sexist or ableist or whatever, we toss them.", "I'm pretty sure the direction society has taken since this scene was animated is a pretty good indication that, in general, they did find something wrong with it. Else we wouldn't be discussing it now; we WOULD be taking it for granted that this is the way things ARE since they wouldn't have changed.", "Happy-hearted formerly enslaved humans and not including all offspring, for all eternity", "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaalllyyy? 🤔", "Stop that bullshit!", "Your statement wasn't valid regardless of their additions. \n\n>It's arguably the first time in cinema history that a black-presenting character (the crows) had real lines, spoke to the main character, and actually influenced the direction of the plot. \n\nEmphasis mine.", "In today’s age whether either the consumer has really odd attachments to fictitious characters or they project the artist onto their work directly. This take is becoming less and less common.", "My recollection of Remus was that he was still a slave. I mean, It was on a plantation... My childhood memories have failed me. I must be a racist. Sharecropper would be appropriate but, again, I failed to acknowledge their humanity. Human Sharecropper, Formerly enslaved, not from Uranus, and not referring to any offspring or future formerly enslaved descendants...", "How do you think society progresses and becomes more equitable without recognizing the injustices and lack of empathy of our own history?\n\nOf course I judge myself by my own standards. It's pretty easy when I don't and would never own any humans and do my best to recognize my privileges and do what I can to make society equitable for people who do not enjoy the privileges I enjoy as a matter of default.", "To show that will never get out of their position as laborers.", "Yeah, but it's an easy argument you use to determine what kind of people you're arguing with haha", "Exactly. These “roustabouts” are a “slave” to their situation. Uneducated and underpaid, they don’t spend their paychecks wisely and so are stuck forever doing this job, the only one they know how to do. There is so much truth to this even today, it’s aged very well.", "Honestly yeah, I've heard stuff like \"let go of me you hairy APE\" directed at (big burly) white men in old media. I think the racial connotation is the only thing most younger people are aware of, though.", "Uhh, OK dude. Maybe, maybe if it were just that I could let it slide but there are several other racist lines in that song that make it pretty clear this was written by white people and it even sounds like it's voiced by white people. I think you should look at your own biases that cause you to overlook this glaring racism rather than blaming a tumbler conspiracy. I suggest you listen to an actual black voice(like this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gPYR9756IE)) instead of instinctively trying to defend racist white ones, which you will do if you are truly a philosopher.", "90s maybe", "You have to think in context of the movie. Both these people and the animals are miserable but have to put on a circus show where they pretend otherwise. They are not happy, they are stuck and they have to find happiness where they can amongst the misery.", "Compared to how things like that typically took centuries to change in the past, I'd say pretty fucking fast.\n\nThat means that in essentially 2 generations, kids realized that slavery/racism is kind of a dick move, and we can do better. Think about how gay people were treated in the '80s VS now. Literally just one generation made a world of difference when the millenial generation basically grew up and went \"What's the big deal?\"\n\nHuman civilization has been around for tens of thousands of years, so to see that much progress in less than 200 years is very impressive to me. On a micro level, it's a long time, but on a macro level within the context of our entire history, it's a drop in the water.", "Sadly, this is history. But the song isn’t saying they are lazy. It literally says they are uneducated.", "still happily serving white folk", "Uhm, thats not a generation, though. Isnt a generation like 20-30 years? And of course, that didn't eradicate racism by any means.", "They are singing from the perspective of their boss. The last couple of lines they are singing as a person telling them \"you're happy hearted\" and \"you're hairy apes.\" So they're basically painting their boss as thinking they are apes and are happy with their work while they clearly aren't. The beginning of the song where they are saying \"we're happy hearted\" and \"we throw our money away\" is them singing about how they are seen by their boss and then at the end of the song they show that by actually singing from their boss's voice.", "Most of the classics have these types of features in them. There aren’t many movies or shows exclusively for children that are regarded as all time classics", "I don't really see it. I guess that they're saying they're happy? Or that they throw their pay away? Or the hairy ape line? \n\nI don't feel like the movie is endorsing this. I mean, there's a dystopian cast to the whole thing. They're talking about it being dangerous, hard, thankless work where they're hounded by their boss. There's a storm and the whole vibe is ominous.\n\nI'm not sure if \"grab that rope you hairy ape\" is intentionally racist, or casually racist, or actually not racist but sounds real bad, Jim.", "I have no clue. I don’t think you know what black face is", "Casts a side-eye at the daycare “teachers”…\nThanks for clearing up that mystery", "Seems no one agrees with you", "so you actually have no understanding of the history here, and are just using strawmen? because none of those things have any actual racism attached to the concept. A tar baby is a very specific idea. It's not 'oh you think it's racist' - it IS racist. just like a minstrel show.", "I don’t understand why you say it didn’t age well ?", "Again, I really like your thought process and think it’s a rather clever approach, however I think it is necessary to bear in mind that whatever morals govern a society also determine how the discriminated class is perceived. I think the prime example is probably pedophiles. I think it is fair to say that in modern society pedophiles are roughly the most discriminated sect of person. Pedophiles are treated with immediate disgust, often with people threatening violence towards non harming pedophiles without a second thought. In modern morality it is even seen as socially unacceptable to defend them (for the record, I am using them as an academic example here). However, the marriage of an older man to an underage girl used to be completely normalized in certain societies. Morality, and the perception of what is right or wrong often changes so drastically that subjugated classes can become entirely reversed. Originally we would look at 12-13 year old girls as the oppressed ones s as they were being uncomfortably forced into marriage and anybody attracted to them was a part of normal society. Now that thought is entirely gross to us, and it is the previously normal men who are our object of disgust and active (often proud) discrimination. This is not to trap you into saying an incriminating line because I am able to separate academia from reality, but do you agree that pedophiles are among the most hated and discriminated groups of society, and if so, should we be trying to discriminate against them less?\n\nThis is not really an issue of pedophilia, all societies will have some acts which will be worse than others and therefore will create a sector of people who will illicit the “pedophile reaction” that we have. In previous societies we have valued whiteness, making being black a heinous act: religion was of utmost importance making atheism one of the highest crimes, etc etc. today we value children.", "Not cool to Willy nilly criticize this movie. It feels like a push for some desire to feel liked. Bullshit. No Elephant shit. This scene is powerful", "> Source on the \"very, VERY small percentage\" of slaves who were happy?\n\nHere you go: \n\n[Frederick Douglas and the Myth of the Happy Slave](https://edsitement.neh.gov/lesson-plans/frederick-douglasss-narrative-myth-happy-slave)\n\n> One myth that Southern slave owners and proponents perpetuated was that of the slave happily singing from dawn to dusk as he or she worked in the fields, prepared meals in the kitchen, or maintained the upkeep of the plantation. In his Narrative—particularly chapters 1 and 2— Douglass quickly distinguishes the myth from the reality. He uses incidents of cruelty that he witnessed along with songs of the slaves themselves—spirituals—to emphasize this distinction.\n\nIs this good enough or would you like additional evidence that \"happy southern slaves\" wasn't a thing?\n\n> I'm not arguing that everything was all hunkie-doorie; I don't know either, and I'm not pretending I do, but you shouldn't either.\n\nI mean, I know basic history. So I know that this is a myth. Here's proof.", "Yeah. Who knew how happy hearted those slaves were! They didn't even want the pay they just loooooved workin'. Smile on a child's face, yessir. That's all the pay I need.", "I never realized the lyrics in the song was about how these black men work so hard to get paid then just throw their money away.", "I think you might be the fragile one, writing a wall of text to a obvious joke lol\n\n\nLay off the armchair psychology, bud. You’re making a lot of assumptions.", "How do you know this to be as true as you are presenting it to be? Can't it be a commentary on the life of a laborer? I find nothing racist about throwing money away, you must not have grown up poor, huh?", "I don’t either, but it would be easy to see how an under-educated or over-sensitive mass could draw the connection", "How did it not? This is an excellent social commentary especially for the time. When I was a kid, I knew the roustabouts were NOT happy. They were faceless locals who were used for cheap labor and lived inglorious lives. Meanwhile, the most magnificent animals they have are forced to do rigorous, thankless work that, without it the circus couldn't even exist. Meanwhile the circus itself is a shapeless, menacing thing being constructed in darkness. Then it transitions to a bright clear day with all the signs of the grungy efforts and pained toiling invisible beneath a glimmering behemoth. The message it sends about what to think about when you look at anything like this in the real world is still incredibly relevant.", "Well, you have half the reason, the other half being that they want everyone else to feel bad for not progressing along with them.", "Yeah, but then the point of comparison would be utterly lost. The people and the animals are \"the same\" in the sense of labor, lodging, living. Was Disney a notorious racist, xenophobe, anti-Semite, absolutely. Does that mean that the people who actually made this cartoon were? I doubt it. This is a childrens movie, such that it's about anthropomorphic elephants and animals and the lives they lead. I haven't watched the movie in forever but there's a lot of symmetry between how animals and people are portrayed with heavy satirizing of behaviors. You could argue some of it is racist but as it's been pointed out there's a level of self-awareness that I think goes beyond just being racist and needing to be sanitized.", "literally the opposite of most of what you said is what's happening here. you're replying to a guy who's disparaging white working class people saying they're dumb and blow all their money. then you use that to justify your racist bullshit by claiming the other side is racist cause omg, if you say it about blacks it's bad, but it's ok to say it about whites! while you're defending a guy who's exactly saying it about whites. left leaning people aren't calling working class blue collar people simpletons because they're working class. they're called simpletons because they vote for simpletons like donald trump, or because they deny reality when it's staring them in the face.", "That's the life of being poor... can't afford to fix your car or send your kid to summer camp, but you will always have enough money for an after work drink at the pub, cigarettes or a lotto ticket. This isn't a race thing. It's a poor thing. And quite accurate.", "Throwing away pay is a poor thing, not a racist thing. Must have been nice to grow up in a middle class home, lol.", "The point of the scene is to drive in the awful conditions that circus workers were put through despite its pretty outward appearance.", "Howso?", "You are currently trying to debate me on Progress, so it is funny about how you call it not debatable.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nYou seem to be stuck on the idea of Progress as defined as gradual betterment. What you seem to be shrugging off is that 'gradual betterment' is highly debatable. There is an entire section of philosophy dedicated to language thus the meaning of words.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIf the majority view of the world is that LGTBQ is evil, a choice, and should be outlawed, their idea of progress, or gradual betterment, is the march towards stamping these things out of society. You may disagree PERSONALLY but it does not invalidate their view.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nTo use less extreme example... People may view the urbanization of farmlands and rural areas as progress, such that business is booming and people are making more money. But an environmentalist would view that as regression as they believe that progress in a society is understanding that we need to value our natural resources and not irrevocably destroy/manipulate them with unsustainable growth.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nEssentially when you start talking about the human condition outside of basic needs, which certainly we have made great progress in fulfilling, it is entirely debatable as to what progress is. Is the progression to a more conservative ideal gradual betterment? Is progression to a more ecologically sustainable future gradual betterment? Who decides what gradual betterment is, if it is society as a whole then that definition will change as society changes.", "I realized i had the wrong word around 3 am. But couldn't figure out what the word was. Thanks for helping!", "Exactly, this scene is actually really realistic. The order of their work is as you'd do a big top tent (pegs /anchors > king poles / guy lines > canvas/ lace > hoist up ) today with motors and machinery rather than elephants, I guess Dumbo would be more like Cars if it where made now.\n\nAlso singing to keep the rhythm when working in groups, essential when swinging sledges.\n\nSource: I'm a tentboss at a circus", "Well I mean if when you point out Columbus' atrocities they ignore them and try to say \"he deserves SOME respect, I mean, what he did in exploration took BALLS\" you can rest assured the person you're talking to is completely brainwashed.\n\nBecause they demand no respect for Lief Erikson who made all the same journeys and respected the native inhabitants and was able to make a living without exploiting them or committing genocide.\n\nThe only thing they respect is wealth; they don't give a shit how it was acquired or who suffered to facilitate it..", "I disagree pretty strongly with this. While I love classic Disney, the newer stuff is still absolutely beautiful. Watching something like Coco, Onward, Soul, Inside Out and saying it's not made to be enjoyed by adults makes me think you haven't watched them at all. The themes are still mature and the characters relatable with beauty beyond most other productions. The only adult thing they removed is the low brow lewd jokes and if that's all you enjoy, that's on you.", "I don't really blame OP. The current ways of highlighting racism and exploitation has about as much subtlety as a sledgehammer and falling short of that depiction gets construed as being racist.", "Unless you’re literally watching it on a black and white television your observations don’t make much sense.", "Honestly I feel like coco is the only one I’d recommend out if the few you listed", "Lots of people voted red and they had their reasons. You don’t have to understand or agree with them. But let’s not act like you haven’t seen peoples education level or occupation weaponized and turned into an insult when it’s a republican from a “fly over state.”\n\nThe guy im replying to isn’t wrong. When the gas and oil industry went through my town we had tons of young guys come into a lot of lucrative and difficult work. The first thing they all did was buy new trucks. Then they found new places to drink at and bought rounds for all their friends. When the oil boom was over some of these guys moved with the industry and others tried to stay and maintain the same standard of living. It did not work and all they had left was the alcohol and whatever drugs or cigarettes they had taken up. \n\nThis isn’t a rough area either, we had the lowest crime rate in the nation not too long ago. But this culture of collecting “toys” and spending all your hard earned money is fairly common for this type of work. \n\nA lot of the guys eventually grow out of it, but they have a rough start trying to figure out how to manage their money and live with moderation. \n\nYou’re trying to spin this as me being racist, but the guy I’m replying to said nothing about white or black and neither did I. That’s you. I said when a minority is in the equation people respond different and act like this doesn’t happen because apparently it’s a problem to point out that some types of people spend their money different than others if the person is of a certain race. So I’ll repeat what the other guy said, roughnecks of any nationality spend a lot of their money and there’s nothing racist about that. I’ll repeat what I said, there’s nothing dishonorable about this type of work or about being less educated either.", "Ah, so you're not here to discuss moral relativism. You're here to \"test\" other users and pass moral judgement on them.\n\nGood to know.", ">the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.\n\nSeems apt to me", "Yes, that's very much the experience I saw around me growing up in a very white community. My parents couldn't afford to put me into hockey, I couldn't go to summer camp, we never went on vacation, but both my parents smoked a pack a day. That's the thing about being poor, you don't have money for anything but a few vices. I absolutely take the meaning to be booze and ciggeretes, and I don't find that racist in the slightest. It's a commentary on low wage workers, especially blue-collar single men like the guys in Dumbo.", "The song is satire. As many working songs are,", "The entire song is satire. Ffs it's so obvious children are supposed to understand it why can't adults in 2021.", "Yeah they were treating those elephants like animals. Did anyone else expect the crow scene? \"Good old fashioned racist comedy!\" --Peter Griffin", "Dumbo and Pinocchio are total nightmare fuel for children.", "I remember having a Disney record in the mid 80s and it was probably in there too", "\"If you smell shit everywhere you go, check your shoes\"", "Is that a scene from an Amazon warehouse?", "It's going to be renovated to remove all references to Song of the South as well. It's going to be changed to a Princess and the Frog theme.", "Oh I'll discuss moral relativism with you if you prove you aren't just looking for excuses to protect the fascist brainwashing most of us were raised with.\n\nIf you can't, you won't have many valid arguments to contribute to the discussion so why waste my time?", "I read it as their point clearly being \"factory farming will be a horrible thing\", with the latter bit just being for emphasis. If they had said \"one of* the greatest\" instead, the point would still hold. None of us can predict the future, but I could see it compared to slavery, potentially.", "What was so rascist about it? I've looked it up but I honestly can't really see anything bad.", "Now kids only use rope for kink play smh.", "Check out this racist over here!", "I think it's intentionally vague, it could refer to both the men and the animals", "I only did a rented tent for a wedding. It was pretty big. But not circus big. So we were able to just use people power. But it'd be fun to do a giant circus tent, once anyway.", "The difference between me and you is that I try on different shoes.", "Have you seen Gone with the Wind?", "It's not so vague to me. It's directed as an actual ape.", "Well let’s agree to disagree then. I like to give them humanity posthumously whenever I can. They lived their lives as property. The least I can do is give them humanity when I am referring to them.", "Meaning this song and routine was almost certainly written before the strike, and its total bullshit to suggest it was meant to represent the striking workers.", "A black centaur that serves the white centaurs whose body is clearly that of a donkey and not a horse.", "I didn't reply to you.", "i'd like to argue that representation has a ways to go. in so many \"modern\" shows like Emily In Paris, the one Asian male is a gay and effeminate. I just saw a Chase commercial and the asian male was gay and had a boyfriend. The \"woke\" media is okay with portraying asian men in this almost near exclusive light.", "sheesh, not to bash but if you think this is bad, you're sheltered.", "I wrote Gone.", "What's my point? I'm responding to a comment about \"black workers singing about the way they are viewed by others\". The song lyrics were not written by a black man, so it doesn't come from the perspective of a black man.", "Tbh, even the racism issue aside they needed to update that ride at least 20 years ago. The animatronics are woefully boring aside from their disney roots and the ride itself was too bumpy. The whole thing just felt old. I really look forward to what they will replace it with as disney always knocks it out of the park on their rides.", "Writing from the perspective of those workers, but not in a flattering way.\n\nAsk yourself this, why emphasise that these workers can't read or write and that they waste their money?", "It does seem unlikely that someone who was born a slave and was made free would have anything to be happy about. I believe it's been documented that no former slave ever smiled", "On the other hand, the lead crow was called Jim Crow.", "Coco is definitely my favorite of those as well. Onward has a special place in my heart too, however the other two I put on based on other adults I know loving them to bits.", "Yes, Yes you did. Im not parent here, but I'm the OP you originally were downvoted to hell for.", "I'm was not counting Pixar into this sorry I didn't mention. And yes Coco is phenomenal", "Calling a slave, a slave, is in no way diminishing of the person, posthumously or not. Calling a former slave, a slave, knowingly probably falls into that category. It's frivolous virtue signaling. It's like calling a diabetic, a sugar free person. It's the same thing, grammatically. I don't agree to disagree. I have an opinion. You can take it or leave it. You'll find no one here attempting to take the humanity from chattel slaves from antebellum times.", "Neither does your innate bigotry.", "And Tutti Frutti was about buttsex.", "I would say that this is pretty spot on for the time.\n\nLiteracy rates in the 20/30 were fairly low. It was not uncommon for kids to go to work at the age of 12 outside urban centers.\nhttps://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp\n\nCarnies were generational, and some still are. \nhttps://www.peoplesdefender.com/2018/07/17/carnival-owners-embrace-their-carnie-heritage/\n\nAnd lots of carnies drank their wages pretty quick. Hell, up until the early 80s, lots of workers were paid in cash at the end of the week, mostly laborers and service workers. Guess what, many drank their wages too.", "Emphasis on FOR THE TIME. Hell, Jim Crow was voiced by a white guy. \n\nIt was still 1941 after all.", "\"Grab that rope, you hairy ape!\"", "I wish the remake had addressed the racial history of circus troupes.", "There are still far better examples. Race films were a genre at the time, movies with black actors aimed at segregated black audiences in the Jim Crow era. But many of those films are just plain good movies that feature black actors not playing racial stereotypes. As an example Body and Soul came out in 1925, sixteen years before dumbo. Or perhaps in a mixed cast, Hitchcock's Lifeboat came out in 1944 as another example.", "I consider the Disney Pixar acquisition to be the start of a new Disney animation Golden Era. As long as they continue this level of quality they can waste as much money as they want making shitty live a action remakes that as you said can only be enjoyed (barely) by children.", "Yep those 11 people are amazingly educated cough cough! \nHow many of those 11 people are white 😶", "Is life hard with a broken brain?", "Did you just “nuh-uh, you are” me? Lmao you’re brain is broken", "How did it not age well?", "Yeah circus workers do be like that. Humans have a high level of tolerance for abuse and they tend to develop cultures around suffrage that involve temporary escapism tools like drugs and alcohol. This lifestyle creates a negative stigma to the outsider looking in. You can look at modern society and still draw parallels i.e. older generations explaining why millennials are poor because they keep spending all their money on avocado toast. /s", "Yeah, Most of the original rides are scheduled for overhauls. \n\nThe reason that they've waited so long is that they have been increasing profits every single year even with all the old ass shit still in place. \n\nFlorida is a Boomer retirement ground, they have a ton of money and a LOVE for nostalgia. Luckily, the other parks around Disney have stared to force their hand on updating.", "First thing that struck me was how beautiful the animation was. The muted colors, the shadows, the close-ups of the ropes whipping in the wind with the elephants silhouetted in the background. It helped emphasize the danger and misery.", "The clip is showing racism. It's not racist. It's the opposite.\n\nIf the clip was racist, it would show the workers enjoying the work. It would not be stormy, it would be a warm spring afternoon with blue birds chirping. And the song would not be ironic. It would not have lyrics about them throwing their money away. It would be something like \"I get paid enough to save for a house\".\n\nShowing workers enjoying dismal, brutal work is racist. This clip is not showing that. It's showing the very opposite.", "Yeah, I agree. And yeah the comments are scary. Have to at least try to explain it though.", "Honestly, I pissed off a lot of chuds and got free worthless karma. win/win.", "Exactly haha", "Grow up child", "I’ve been rewatching Whose Line is it Anyways from 98 and it’s amazing how much humor is built on “being gay is icky” and “Monica Lewinsky is a slut”", "I don’t think you understand the concept of agreeing to disagree. We’re not going to change each other’s minds here. When I talk about enslaved people, I’m talking about my ancestors. I’m not going to argue with an anonymous person about how I choose to refer to them.", "Yes, that was my point. We as humans don’t always “strive to become more just and fair” and progress along this path. Sometimes we commit genocide, for example. We will again at some point in the future. I’m surprised this fact is so unpopular.", "I think maybe you should grow up if you can’t understand dumbo..", "> We’re not going to change each other’s minds here. When I talk about enslaved people, I’m talking about my ancestors. I’m not going to argue with an anonymous person about how I choose to refer to them.\n\nI don't expect you to refer to them any other way than the way you want. I do not think or believe that referring to your ancestors as slaves is negative. If anything, It makes your ancestors as tough as nails. The scientist in me doesn't question why professional sports is dominated by the offspring of those slaves. Survival of those conditions requires intelligence. This might be different than what a racist would have you think, but for a moment, let's attempt to ignore that huge elephant in the room. They've destroyed enough of the English language. Nothing is going to change the fact that a group of my ancestors dominated and enslaved yours. I don't hide it. I don't certainly ignore it. I certainly didn't enslave anyone. I would never give those racists that rely on these misunderstandings cover to continue their sickness. I have deep respect for those that were enslaved and the effects of that on our modern world. I call them slaves. Slavery was the institution and the people who were subjugated by that system have always been called slaves. It's also not just Black slaves. The institution goes back all the way to the beginning of history. Unless you see some Klan member calling them \"happy-hearted slaves\", their humanity is still intact. I'll be the first swinging on them, when I see them. I personally know the stark difference between your run of the mill, casual suburban racism and the real psychopaths that exist in our country. Being a white man in my unique situation allows me to hear what most don't. I was woke way before being woke was a thing.\n\nI completely understand the concept of agreeing to disagree. I do not do that. I'm of the opinion that agreeing to disagree is useful in a debate about the best tasting jolly ranchers. It's not useful for debating. It's not for opinions that are important. I will never agree to disagree with all of the racist, backwards white people I am surrounded by and have had to endure their racial diatribes. My unique situation has forced me to deal with some of the nastiest racists that can be found in the US. You either accept my opinion, or we just disagree. \n\nThis issue is personal for you. I can't blame you there. Racism is still alive and well, and it's a shit situation. Just understand that when I say slave, I mean exactly \"enslaved people\".", "Seems to me the singers are quoting things said about them. They are sarcastically celebrating the stereotypes and assumptions made about them.", ">Of course I judge myself by my own standards.\n\nSo, when passing any homeless person: do you always give them the money you're carrying, or are you holding on to your capitalistic gains to let the weak fend for themselves and rot in the process?\n\nIt's so easy to look up in moral judgment, but if you scale your indignation down to the level you yourself operate on you will find yourself to be just as guilty as the rich and powerful you're shitting on.\n\nPointing to the powerful whilst doing nothing is easy. Doing what you can within your possibilities is hard. Demanding significant changes of others whilst not being willing to make significant changes yourself is pathetic. So please answer this: which percentage of your obviously no more than average income are you structurally spending on reducing the faults of society that you are critical about? Because from your tone I am pretty sure you have excellent excuses for why your personal situation justifies that percentage being 0.\n\nEdit:\n\n>How do you think society progresses and becomes more equitable without recognizing the injustices and lack of empathy of our own history?\n\nBy recognizing the injustices and lack of empathy of our own society.", "> tame or clumsy \n\nelephant metaphors, did you realize you were making them :p", "1] I am not a capitalist. I am capital- that is being exploited by the system no differently than the system has exploited the homeless man.\nRegardless of this I pay taxes (so about 35% of the allowance that my capitalist handlers remit to me) and I vote for politicians who believe in using those funds (as well as obtaining funds from actual capital owners) to create/strengthen social safety nets and healthcare; and in decreasing funding and subsidies for military and the monopolistic expansion.\n\nAnd yes on top of this when I come across people begging for food I take them shopping for groceries when my mental health and finances can afford sending energy/resources in that direction. I reject the premise that taking care of my own survival needs makes me a hypocrite as you seem to be insinuating.\n\n2] Society IS it's history, and our society was founded on a history of slavery and genocide; no level of human exploitation was too low or too much... It STILL has not purified itself of these founding habits- it has just found different ways to justify getting away with them in different legal forms; the war on drugs & for-profit prisons, war profiteering & the endless war on 'terror.'", "Not at all. It's not about what is righteous, but the path of least resistance in a given strategy.\n\nEdit: The frustrating part is that people don't see that regardless of ideology, it's not the philosophy or economic values or religion, but the actions of a given group that matter. Human beings are treated like garbage to serve systems of money and power where only a few people benefit, and those watching are all \"yeah, this is normal. This checks out.\" Regardless of ideology, the flaws are in how they treat the average person, not the useless and endless philosophical debates of money and government." ]	1,042	videos	I haven't seen 'Dumbo' since I was a small child, but this scene did NOT age well.
https://youtu.be/EeAguTk6_2E	/r/videos/comments/rpya87/does_antigravity_explain_dark_matter/	[ "Pretty cool video, I never really thought of anti-gravity before. I always heard the term in movies, but then they'd show just zero-g.\n\nNow I'm thinking how a force that truly mirrors gravity would act and how it would mess with space-time. It starts hurting my brain a little though, not going to lie to you.", "She sums up quite nicely how most (stoned) armchair physicists and almost all pseudoscientists explain life, the universe and everything in a poetically beautiful and completely erroneous fashion.", "I wish I was smart enough to understand all of this. Super interesting nonetheless." ]	3	videos	Does anti-gravity explain dark matter?
https://youtu.be/90-jXbyv7ok	/r/videos/comments/rpywoa/snls_parody_of_jerry_seinfelds_standup_1988_ft/	[ "I think I would get a headache from watching any longer than a minute of hearing so much HEY", "Hey! What about Dana Carvey? Why do they call him that anyways? It’s not like he carves anything anyway! Hey!", "he's choppin'...", "Why do they call him Jon Lovitz, when he doesn't love it, he thinks it stinks!\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/0XAeDgY.jpg", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od7env1t0P8", "I'm curious, how did Seinfeld react to this?", "That was painful and yet really well done.", "He talks about this on an episode of Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee, I forget which one, but basically he approved, he said, \"I thought those jokes were funny\"", "10x funnier than Seinfeld", "I have to admit, I’m still unclear on how big Seinfeld was before his show, but it seems that he was pretty big.", "This was more of a New York standup inside joke. Seinfeld was fairly big because of his Late Night appearances and he had a TV special. He had minor name recognition in the grand scheme of things when this SNL sketch aired.", "Everybody debating whether Seinfeld is funny or not, and all I can think is how cozy that backroom looks. 80s recrooms really had a certain cork board, brown tile aesthetic.", "That's very wholesome", "So what Seinfeld project is about to be announced? His PR people seem to have been doing a lot of work around here lately.", "Bee Movie 2", "Reddit really has a generation of kids thinking themselves premier social critics with “durr Seinfeld unfunny”.", "Benson reunion", "Seinfeld on Netflix", "For my fellow Gen-Xers who love to say, \"SNL isn't what is used to be,\" this excruciating skit should be a reminder that SNL has always been hit or miss.\n\nFor every classic skit we still quote today, there were a dozen stinkers like this.", "I don't think they're wrong. I'm 45 and Seinfeld is my favorite TV show of all time, but his stand-up, old and new, barely gets a smile out of me.\n\nBesides, shitting on the stuff old people like is part of the circle of life. I'm sure when we were teenagers, we weren't singing the praises of Henny Youngman.", "“Hey, I gotta know, what’s it’s like dating a 17 year old when I’m damn near 40! I gotta know!” - Seinfeld, probably.", "If observational comedy is not their thing, that’s fine, but the revisionist history has gone way too far. “Seinfeld is only funny because of Larry David.” A preposterously stupid claim that pops up all the time. Seinfeld was integral to Seinfeld, his humor balanced Larry David’s acerbic wit perfectly. The show that invented modern TV comedy owes plenty of due to its namesake.", "Those were the best worst best Seinfeld impressions I've ever seen.", "I agree. Jerry Seinfeld's perspective and comedic sensibility was essential to the success of the show Seinfeld. Heck, I've even come around to believe Jerry was a good actor on the show, or at least that whatever it was he was doing worked perfectly in the context of the show.\n\nHis stand up is not for me, but he and Larry David (and JLD, Jason Alexander, Michael Richards and all the supporting cast) created something wholly unique and completely hilarious.", "I wanna know", "SNL isn't what it used to be. If old SNL is at a 12:1 \"stinker to classic\" ratio, new SNL is at a \"3 or 4 years\":1", "Hey! \n\nWhy do they say wholesome? How can it be whole while simultaneously being only some?\n\nI have _got_ to know!", "Oooh boy", ">Jerry was a good actor on the show\n\nI don't think playing yourself on screen qualifies as acting even if you do it very well... Which Seinfeld absolutely did not.\n\nI mean for god's sake he's halfway to corpsing in half the scenes.", "I think tbe show his funny but not his standup bits", "Hey!", "SNL takes a funny 30 seconds and stretches it to a painful 4 minutes", "I find it amusing how Jerry goes out and interviews actual funny people on his show and talk about who is funny and who just \"doesn't have it\". To me, Seinfeld was a great show, but his stand up is shit. \n\n He's not qualified to hold Burr's jock in my opinion.", "And hey?\n\nWhat's the deal with people saying oh boy to express a slight displeasure with something someone said? Hey I don't like that thing you said therefore, ohh male child? What do children even have to do with it?\n\nI just gotta know.", "She tells me she skipped class I’m not sure whether to pop a viagra or call her parents. Yesterday she dragged me to the mall with her friends so today I took her to the dmv and my aunt lizzas house. Two can play at this game hunny!", "Is a bee going to seduce two human women in this one?", "This. Seinfeld was a product of this style of standup and became the most successful. He didn't invent it.", "Gotcha, many thanks for the explanation! I've always wondered how big a deal he was before they gave him his own show.", "The worls needs more Jon Jovitz. Underrated dude imo.", "I think something that gets lost in the conversation a lot of the time is that when comics like Sienfeld were performing their content was transformative for their time. \n\nThose who grew up with it can appreciate how it changed things. But it's also inevitable that those that didn't live in that cultural moment wouldn't really \"get it\".\n\nEspecially when after decades of changes to the form based on what these icons built seems unrefined in comparison. \n\nStand-up comedy as an art form doesn't seem to age well.\n\nGranted, it is a very young art form as far as cultural significance is concerned so only time will tell if in a hundred years from now people will be analyzing stand up in the same way they analyze film or more contemporary art.", "How do you manage to tune in every week if it stinks so bad?", "Seriously. I saw 2 Seinfeld videos on the front page of this sub and had to go check and make sure the guy hadn't died.", "Wasn't funny then, isn't funny now.", "Yes, and this is true of SNL generally, fractally. At any given scale the humor in SNL is protracted until it's destroyed.", "His character in the show is actually a good approximation. Real-life Jerry, in the year or two before \"Seinfeld\" started, was a little more popular and successful, but not by a huge amount. He was a stand-up guy who appeared on Johnny Carson and Letterman on occasion, and played quality venues, but certainly not arenas or places like that.\n\nAs a teenager, I knew of him, and thought he was decent, but I was a bigger fan of Steven Wright, as were most of the people in my circle (having said that, it would be really tough to make a Steven Wright-based sit-com).", "drew gooden did a good [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGjxX4gvaqk) on your last point.", "It’s called tobacco", "They don’t tune in and that is why the ratio doesn’t make any sense. I’d say every 3 skits work. Not including weekend update. That is always funny.\n\nSource : I watch it every week.", "You know, now that you mention it, this whole scene would vibe with some sultry saxophone and sunglasses inside.", "Oh yeah, it would be damn near impossible to make a show based around Steven Wright's comedy.", "That’s one busy bee.", "I mean how would anybody know what gay horses eat anyway. They don't talk", "Being on Hulu makes it easy to watch. I don’t every episode, only ones that have hosts that interest me. Sucks they are on lockdown again. The Paul Rudd one would have been great. The prerecorded ones that had made were funny.", "Who are the ad wizards that came up with that one?", "Bee Movie 2:\n\n“The Bee-Guiling”\n\n“Combing for Honeys”", "Busy Bee make the world go 'round....", "It's not a parody of Seinfeld. It's a parody of how many lesser famous standups tend to emulate the most popular comics of their time. Some intentionally and some out of subconscious admiration. A large portion of SNL writers are standup comics and they were likely commenting on how dominant Jerry's style had become, much like Pryor and Eddie before.", "Pop Tart movie", "It worked", "This was hilarious to me", "That one post with his 70's routine was popular because of how old it is, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that someone saw that, and thought of this, or saw this because of the algorithm...\n\n/r/nothingeverhappens", "I remember going to the dentist as a kid and seeing an ad for toothbrushes or something on the wall and Seinfeld's likeness on the ad. That was before his show was on the air. I vaguely remember seeing him on TV. So, kind of big? He wasn't as big as other big comics of the time like Dangerfield, Prior, Cosby or Carlin.", "He was never the same after 9/11", "lovitz wins", "I don't want to get off on a rant here, but Dennis Miller's show on HBO (first two seasons or so) were genuinely funny.", "He's got a movie coming to Netflix [about Pop Tarts](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/jerry-seinfeld-netflix-pop-tart-comedy-1234972722/).", "It stinks!", "If they got rid of the live part of the show, they wouldn't need to do it.\n\nBeing live might have been appealing back in the day, but it doesn't make a lot of sense today when they're reading directly off the cue cards.", "Yeah, they’re gonna have a beesome.", "SNL is never funny. I don't get why everyone raves about it.", "Yes but one of them has to be 17 and the bee is 39.", "Dennis Miller is so lame.", "Featuring the Honey Nazi", "The Critic was awesome", "Seinfeld, the show, was largely the creative product of Larry though.", "Not that big unless you were a serious stand-up nerd. He had a bunch of successful Tonight Show appearances, but that didn’t make him unique or particularly marketable relative to anyone else. Same basic story as Roseanne. \n\nNeither was anywhere close to as well known as Cosby when he got the show.", "He means the reason everything started that color is all the smoke turned it that color. That is why old computers are that same gross off white color yellowish brown color. One of the best unintended side effects of banning smoking indoors was the improvement in decor.", "Seinfeldvision", "I remember hearing “iiiiiiiiit stinks” a bunch when it aired", "What’s the deal with Bananas? I mean you got apple juice, you got orange juice, where’s the banana juice?!", "Oooooh..,, that stung.", "I mean, hey! Why are they called bees? Whatever happened to the As? Are they extinct? I wanna know!", "Oh! By gosh am I glad a big strong man came by and explained that to me. I'd be beside myself with despair without your guidance. I am aware of what he or she meant, I happen to disagree with you. I think that looks like a very chill, comfortable space to relax in. Banning smoking indoors was inarguably a good move, but that has nothing to do with this specific aesthetic.", "What if it's only a little wholesome? Is it somesome? I wanna know! Pass the crilk!", "I loved the early '90s SNL, but there really is a prominent frat house mentality to all of it. Most of it really, really hasn't aged well and had a strong push against progressive ideals. And being on the wrong side of things, as with Sinead O'Connor tearing up the Pope's photo to send a message.", "oh cool you just wanted to argue", "Thanks for posting", "Are you saying O'Connor was wrong to protest as she did, or that SNL was wrong to ban her?", "My god, it even has a watermark.", "Lol, wow, ok then. [walks away quickly from the crazy person]", "Yeah sorry. I'm drunk and today is day 9 of 10 for self isolating, I'm craving any human interaction. Kinda jumped on you there, apologies. Hope you have a good one.", "This is exactly why I cannot stand Seinfeld. These guys performed his garbage acts perfectly, although it clearly does not take much talent, just say \"hey\" a bunch in whiny ass nasally voice.", "My bad man, you didn't deserve that. I'm very lonely, I spent Christmas by myself. Self isolating for Covid, but still. It gets to you. This is the longest conversation I've had in 2 weeks, I'm rusty. Hope you have a good one, I was definitely in the wrong.", "Jon Bon Jovitz", "This makes me want to kill myself", "You have to remember at the time this was done Jerry was not a nationally known comedian", "Seinfeld talked about this, I think in one of the episodes of comedians in cars. And he said he actually thought their jokes were funny", "the building thing sounds perfectly like a seinfeld joke", "Goddamn you.", "You talk too much, talking cat.", "The earmuffs on deaf people bit had me rolling. Should have ended the segment there.", "There's a reason there's a banana in my ear. I'm trying to lure the monkey out of my head.", "Yeah, that’s the ticket!", "I've never seen pre-show seinfeld but from this sketch I'm guessing he was on cocaine?", "Yeah, it was mostly pretty funny jokes actually, just over-exaggerated. However, I was referencing a similar SNL sketch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJYmf\\_G5d0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJYmf_G5d0)", "exactly this - and they end it with one of them taking the other guy's joke on stage, which means he won't be able to use it in his set.", "His bit role in A League of Their Own was great. As was Rat Race. He’s a great addition to any flick.", "It was the 80's, so...", "Have you tried snorting a bunch of cocaine before the sketch begins? That's how they got through it", "\"strong push against progressive ideals.\"\n\nIf early 90's SNL wasn't \"progressive\" enough, then you're the one that's too far to one extreme.\n\nPeople look to be outraged too much.", "Comedians Getting into Cars to Score Cocaine. \n\nIt’s too wordy. Doesn’t roll off the tongue. \n\n(I’m kidding. As far as I know and as far as I can tell, Jerry was never a big drug guy. He was/is far too much of a go-getter/task-master to have managed a massive habit—even if it were uppers.)", "When I took driver's ed back in the late 90's, we had to watch a video that explained how car insurance worked. The video starred a pre-Seinfeld Michael Richards, it was great!", "Bee Movie 2: The Birds and the Bee", "Source? Everything I’ve read is that it was both of them working on writing the show.", "I don't like a lot of SNL that's out there, maybe it's more American culture humour style, but I really liked this.", "Oh Dennis Miller. What happened to you since.", "Ok that makes a lot of sense. I've listened to Bill Cosby comedy albums before, but I've never listened to comedy albums from Roseanne or Seinfeld.", "Well, that was annoying.", "> For my fellow Gen-Xers who love to say, \"SNL isn't what is used to be,\"\n\nThose of us who say that are referring to the Original Cast years and the Eddie years. Ain’t no topping that shit.", "SNL for banning her. These days, they would be more inclined to side with someone who calls out a large group for child abuse.", "What...iiiiiiiiisthedeal?", "Yes, because Pat was the pinnacle of progressive statements that absolutely no one regrets, certainly not the actress who portrayed the character and has gone so far as to make a sitcom about how problematic the character is.", "They used the same idea with a stand up comic game show.", "SNL started off with skits like [this.](https://youtu.be/yuEBBwJdjhQ). So yeah, SNL's always been pretty ahead of the curve, but still make a lot of missteps.", "i wouldn't, i hate this kind of tv. im not american so maybe that has something to do with it, i just find 99.9% of the show unbearably unfunny.", "Gotcha. I agree. That was a ballsy move by O'Connor and SNL took the cowards way out.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJYmf_G5d0", "Nice to know SNL was not funny back then too.", "Hey, at least you apologize when you took something the wrong way! That’s more than most people on this site do. Hope you feel better soon!", "Yeah, he's too small to be a big anything guy", "> Seinfeld is my favorite TV show\n\nI'm in my early 30's and Seinfeld is one of my top tv shows, but mainly because Larry David wrote a good 30ish% of the episodes, the rest were just mimicking Larry's humor imo. Curb Your Enthusiasm is Seinfeld on crack", "> SNL for banning her. These days, they would be more inclined to side with someone who calls out a large group for child abuse.\n\nYeah, except no one knew what the fuck she was protesting.\n\nI remember her doing it, I remember it being a big deal that she did it, I don't remember anyone talking about protesting child abuse.", "If you’re playing yourself and the show is funny… you’re funny.", "It might just be because it’s on Netflix now and people are watching it more. Or it might be that Netflix is seeding it in social media so we are reminded that Netflix has it. Netflix.", "Broccoli!", "Can you have a wholesome threesome?", "Alt title: Jon Lovitz invents the meme", "He doesn’t have enough personality to try drugs I’d guess", "For the young kids who don't get the reference \n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/i1RXsBq.jpg", "Hey!", "This is awful on every measurable level.", "I don't know why you're being blasted for this comment, you didn't jump down the guy's throat or anything. It's a fairly reasonable, if slightly annoyed, response to someone hitting you with the old \"Mmm well actually...\".\n\nI get that reddit loves a good Well Actually but it gets old.", "It’s easier this time because he found them both on Bumble", "Tough? The groundwork was done some time later but it's right there:\n\n\"The guy on the couch\"\n\nStarring Steven Wright", "I’m convinced he was talked into that movie like he was with the puffy pirate shirt on the show.", "When you have to fill 90 minutes minus commercials and two songs by the musical guest, you have to stretch you 9 sketch ideas until they become unfunny.", "Steven Wright's comedy is 100% about his delivery. The jokes aren't that funny, he just kills it with that...style?", "May he rest in peace.", "This clip perfectly demonstrates how American sketch comedy always suffers bits being way too long. Switched it off after it's the same joke over and over for more than 2 minutes.", "What's the deal with awesome and awful? Awe must be a thing where a little bit is good, but too much is terrible.", "he is doing a pop tart movie according to the conan podcast", "My cat ate her dry food too quick the other day. She barfed up this semi-digested clump of Iams Chicken for adult cats.\n\nNetflix gave that ball of saliva and partially digested nuggets its own series.", "it said seinfeld and i am a huge seinfeld fan. tbh thats literally the only part of the title i saw and then watched about 40 seconds and had to turn it off.", "It was mildly amusing for thirty seconds, but four minutes?", "Bee 2: ReFried Bees", ">cork board\n\nYou just reminded me that I need to buy a corkboard, like right now. Thanks!", "It was the 80s.\n\nEVERYONE was on the cocaine.", "..I don't know Jerry. Maybe just.. you know.. Watch 'em?", "4 minute isnt as bad as 9 seasons.", "Bill Ding!", "it just keeps going... fucking lol", "I would drink banana juice.", "He wasn't big enough for anyone to tune in to his show, which only started getting traction when they did reruns of the 1st season over the summer.", "HEY", "Meam!", "everyone knows the sequel is Sea Movie.", "First Seinfeld season was 1989. Just sayin'.", "> Yeah, except no one knew what the fuck she was protesting.\n\nFucking thank you! \n\nThe scandal of pedophilia priests was hardly as well known back then in the larger context of news and culture like it is today. Those who knew, knew, and most just didn't.\n\nSo, without any set up, without any warning, O'Connor is just running through a cover of Bob Marley's \"War\" (which has little to nothing to do with pedophilia), and all of the sudden produces a picture of the Pope, shouts \"Fight the real enemy\", rips up the photo and throws it at the camera.\n\nHonestly, I appreciate the bravery of her message, but the delivery was 0 out of 100, no surprise she got blacklisted.", "Nah. It was just a bad sketch with bad impersonations.", "to be fair it started to almost get funny again towards the end", "Agreed, but also worth pointing out that the comics you mentioned had already been around for decades at that point.", "His always put me to sleep", "Go back and check. That applies to them too.", "Yeah. What’s the deal with that?", "Another example that wasn't out for decades at that point is Eddie Murphy. Well maybe 1 decade. But it takes years for a comic to become big after they've honed their skills for years prior to that. Makes you wonder if Seinfeld would've become a huge comic without the sitcom. I kind of doubt it, but who knows.", "Fyi, it’s not that your not from America - the show just isn’t funny generally. There have always been great bits but they have also always been a small minority of what they put out. \n\nSource: am American.", "People see video, people get reminded of related video they like and want to also post, that video gets posted, rinse, repeat\n\nPeople always jumping to PR/astroturfing are probably wrong, 90% of the time.", "I think he would have been a footnote without the sitcom. His comedy translates much better performed by actors and obviously Larry David helped a lot. But his ponderings if you put them into a show format obviously worked really well in the 90s at the perfect time for sitcoms.", "What’s the deal with homework? You’re not working on your home", "Take a shot for every time they say \"Hey\".", "Yeah, and those others had been big for decades.\n\nRe: Seinfeld being this popular with out the show - I tend to agree with you. Partly because, while I do find him funny, his schtick isn’t as striking as the others mentioned. But also, comedy has kind of changed since the 80s - I can’t think of any comedian that’s as big as the people we’ve mentioned that only does standup any more. The real “celebrity” comes from tv shows, movies, etc. where Cosby, Carlin, etc. got huge on standup alone and then did other things because they were already big.", "watch the episodes they did after larry left and you’ll see how different the humor was without him. he was the key to the show. they both created it and they both crafted it but the trademark brilliance was larry.", "When one half of a partnership leaves, I’d expect it to drop in quality.", "Holy shit, man, you'll get alcohol poisoning two minutes into it!", "And also because Germany had standards for computers in the 80s and 90s that included being that weird color so rather than create separate computers for different markets, many manufacturers simply made them all the Germany pee color.", "Back when they didn't just read the lines off of teleprompters...", "This has always been my take on Seinfeld even when it was airing initially. I just never got it.", "I mean, i am sure sitting on his >$800 million empire, everything looks just fine.", "Imitation is the highest form of flattery. I have to think that if other comedians are doing a sketch about him they appreciate what he does.", "I lived in the moment and I still hated/hate Seinfeld. That being said, I fondly remember tons of punch lines or the over-arching story and think they are hilarious to this day, it's just the 20 minutes surrounding those that I can't stand.", "And what's the deal with Mr. Ed? Does this horse have a first name? Did he make his own name up, or is he coming from a long line of Eds? Where are the horse's parents? Do they approve of him talking to people?", "\"It's a giant horse's ass . . . you're watching FOX!\"", "lol never saw that one... jerry doing jerry is hilarious.", "I never had a high school girl friend, Jerry Seinfeld didn't have one till he was 39.", "Now I need a Steven Wright version of Seinfeld so I can hear him say “It’s a show about nothing.”", "I mean What IS up with Oprah? Is she supposed to be some kind of reverse Marx-brother?", "Lots of crap from that era.\n\nPpl I know usually reference the mid 90s era SNL as the best, and even then it was full of cringey crap.", "Except back in those days we just called cocain", "Just watching Seinfeld and this is so funny!", "damn", "Absolutely there were misses as well as hits during that era. There's a reason the first ten years are considered the best, however.", "I guess I feel old liking this bit.", "There's just something magical about bad Seinfeld impressions. Just because you know it pisses him off. He's actually pretty funny when he tries but mocking his cadence is funnier.", "Jon Lovitz’s Seinfeld impression is a perfect Aziz Ansari impression", "Glad to see there have been vast improvements in Seinfeld impressions over the last 34 years.", "A lot like Mitch Hedberg.", "This kind of comment should be the norm for obvious advertising.\n\nlike a bought and paid for jeopardy category.", "how funny", "Blow\n\nThe Devil's Dandruff\n\nPuruvian Marching Powder", "Ok he had to have actually said this it's too perfect.", "They’ve literally always used cue cards lol what are you talking about?", "I’ll take that deal!!!", "This is sooooo bad. Not one laugh outa me. Sorry boutit.", "Do people not realize Seinfeld was a pedophile and dated a 15 year old when he was like 35?", "[\"You ever notice how girlfriends are always talking about math homework?\"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp8tCqwushM)", "Born in 90s, seinfeld basically makes observations, it's not really funny to listen to observations.the best sienfield bit I've seen so far is the \"it depends\" skit when he was on Jimmy fallon show", "rose tinted glasses. every season of SNL and every cast had bad sketches, members, and episodes. its always been super hit or miss\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGjxX4gvaqk", "> There's a reason the first ten years are considered the best, however.\n\nby whom?", "Sounds more like a Kenny Bania routine.", "Oh I don't know of all the American TV tropes, bad live sketch comedy is pretty inoffensive.", "Old SNL was worse than new SNL.", "You mean no topping them when 10 years of shows are condensed into a 2 hour greatest hits DVD.", "Because it was completely unique at the time and amazing for its time. \n\nIt doesn't hold up. \n\nBut that doesn't take away from what it did", "IDK I feel like SNL has a great sketch at least once every 2 weeks, minimum. \n\nJohn Mulaney's guest spots alone had 2-3 really good bits.", "I agree with that. And a lot of Weekend Update was incredibly lazy in the 90s", "Catholics knew.", "IDK Norm McDonald telling a joke about a bitches and fat ugly women every other week isn't exactly progressive.", "They also make fun of his standup a lot in the show, he’s pretty self-aware.", "Oh Beehive. Yeah baby, YEAH!", "Children don't like sitcoms for adults. I didn't like the TV show Seinfeld when it was on, I was too young. \n\nI think its unbelievably funny now. \n\nHis standup is merely ok. He's likeable, and as long as it just on TV and I'm not paying for it -- that's enough", "Maybe on purpose, maybe ironically, I think it adds to the show that the standup isn't really that good.", "I haven't seen this since its original run. You didn't dare miss SNL back then", "Hedberg plays the lovable stoner idiot to perfection.", "You mean [Comedians in Cars Getting Cocaine](https://vimeo.com/126324976)?", "In the YouTube comments someone suggests that Conan O’ Brian wrote this sketch ✍️ \nI think it’s mostly a satire of that style of comedy from that era rather than solely Seinfeld", "Now THIS is wholesome", "And what's the deal with awesome? It's supposed to be a good thing, but yet there's only some awe? Shouldn't it be awful? Yet somehow this one is a bad thing??\n\n I've got to know!", "It’s refreshing to see a SNL skit where they aren’t reading the cue cards for the entire skit.", "I didn’t get the building joke", "He said that the funniest part was that he thought the jokes they were telling were genuinely funny.", "Norm MacDonald asked Jerry why he named the program like that and Jerry said because he liked talking to comedians, and he liked coffee and cars. Norm said that then he would have a show called \"Eating Count Chocula all by myself \".", "I can understand what you're saying, and it does happen. It's a PR person's absolute wet dream when their ads are working so well that people start sharing them for fun. Seinfeld is being pushed very heavily right now it seems. I personally think this is a PR thing for sure. \n\nSame happens with Eminem every single time he's about to drop an album (or just did). \n\nI actually think you may be underestimating the financial gain to be had from manipulating Reddit. These ad men aren't going to leave hundreds of thousands or more just sitting on the table and say, \"Geez we just can't crack this Reddit thing.\"\n\nThey're definitely using Reddit, and you have to assume they're at least mostly successful or they wouldn't be getting paid the big bucks to do it.", "come on over...i got plenty", "Females were doing it also. Bolo ties and mulletts", "In recent episodes (10+ years recent), they don't even bother trying to hide that they are reading lines.\n\nIn older episodes (20+ years ago), they probably read them while someone else was saying their lines and then recited them. It made it look more natural.", "Has SNL ever been funny?", "Lol, I like Jerry but that's good. Pretty meta.", "It's already built. They are no longer building it. You live there. It's done. It's not in a state of build-ing", "lol", "It’s not a show about nothing after all. George and Jerry are Dennis Miller’s conscious.", "Snow\n\nNose candy\n\nBooger sugar", "As someone (foriegn) who hasn't seen much SNL and doesn't really understand the hype around it, thank you! This was very educational!", "Yea I hate to say it but the fact that persona made him so much wealthier than all the people who take cracks at him, must make it pretty easy to take.\n\nSame thing with the facebook guy. Tough to let the jibes get to you when you can build a go-kart track made out of cocaine in your main and auxiliary mansions", "Well… At least they’re acting and not just staring at cue cards the whole time.", "What's the deal with corn nuts?", "He's too normal to be a comedian doing drugs.", "Gilbert does my favorite seinfeld impression\nhttps://youtu.be/Pvo0kcbkEmg", "That was a Gallagher joke from the 80s.", "I cringed so hard I think I popped a blood vessel", "Not necessarily. It depends on what you value in life.\nIf all you care about is having money and don't give a shit about other people's opinions, sure, hard to give a shit, but if you care about your legacy and how you'll be remembered (as many people do) then you still care about the opinion of the masses.\n\nReducing it down to \"well I can live in my castle and not give a shit\" only applies to certain personalities/people.", "Its in Germany. They put it in their Beer sometimes. Its not good.", "I actually really enjoyed Kevin Nealon's WU. It was more his schtick that was funny than the writing, though. His deadpan delivery of incredibly stupid jokes as if he were a legitimate anchorman always got a laugh out of me.", "These are some horrible impressions, not gonna lie.", "I remember that!\n\nSeinfeld's quote was something like \"I love brushing my teeth because it's time alone, to collect my thoughts in peace.\"\n\nOr something like that.", "Ya, love those guys, but the impressions are god awful.", "That's because they were riffing on bad 80s comedians in general, most of which were Seinfeld clones.", "They're not doing Seinfeld in particular, just all the bad Seinfeld clones who aped his style in the 80s comedy boom.", "For you", "Why is he called Jay Sherman? Does he drive a tank? I've got to know!", "Shame it's not real because the Shermometer is the part I was born for.", "Seinfeld the man may or may not have been funny with others' help, but Seinfeld the sitcom is absolutely David's baby.", "And hey! That's a funny word! Extinct. I mean, if it's ex-tinct, then am I tinct? Are we tincting now? I wanna know!", "I mean hey! Why do they call it Pop Tarts? They aren't popping, the toaster's doing the popping and they're getting all the credit. \n\nI mean, why aren't we calling toasted bread Pop Toast? I wanna know!", "I want to see WandaVision, except Wanda is replaced by jerry and no one acknowledges it.", "I remember seeing this when it aired. I wasn't really aware of Seinfeld at the time and had no idea they were parodying him. \n\nStill hilarious, though.", "Now I think Seinfeld isn’t funny.", "Why does Jon Lovitz sound like he's doing an Aziz Ansari impression?", "Who are the ad wizards that came up with this one?", "Imma stop you right there. You only put it in Weizenbier (wheat beer), and it's a glorious summer beer drink.", "Puke! That’s a funny word!", "That’s the sign of a good skit", "What’s the deal?", "I would pay good money to have seen just the end of Benson as a series. The final episode was Benson running against the Governor, and one of them was going to win, and they left it as a cliffhanger. My God. Talk about leaving someone hanging.", "It's been on there for a while", "> and it's a glorious summer beer drink.\n\nI can't agree on that. Ill stick to my Radler. \n\nIve seen Weizen here with Red Wine, Banana juice, and of course the most common additive...coke. I enjoy my Weizen pür.", "Wow, I didn't know that David S. Pumpkins did comedy.", "Does it though? Those in comedy often consider being parodied on SNL to mean you have made it but it kinda depends on how well that specific comedian can take the joke.", "Mitch Hedberg made for a fantastic character just by playing himself on That 70's show. However I can't really have seen him as the main character.", "I didn't even know he was sick!", "Or to put it in Seinfeldese..\n\n“SNL takes a funny 30 second concept and stretches it out to 4 minutes. What’s the deal with that?”", "On the topic of Seinfeld impressions:\n\n[Jeremy Kaplowitz’s “1990s Jerry Seinfeld doing bits about his 17 year old girlfriend” bit](https://youtu.be/Fp8tCqwushM)", "Here's to feeling good all the time", "Hard disagree, the live part is what makes the show special instead of any other sketch comedy show. By giving itself serious restraints in terms of space, sets, quick changing make up and wigs, it gives SNL a more theater feeling than the rest. It also helps to keep the show rough, with hosts flubbing their lines, accents changing all the time and people cracking up. By showing that side of the production it endears them to their audience.", "the birth of the meme.", "Any Seinfeld episode is better than this, but it's still funny to people who've watched Seinfeld, because they do often talk about the most inane shit for minutes on end.", "I never thought of that", "Especially the Eddie years. Eddie was the only one keeping the show alive at that point. The rest of his earlier cast members were atrocious.", "I remember watching a show about standup comedians back on SpikeTV days. They had modern comics argue about their rankings of classic comics. The whole panel argued a lot, but did agree that the only reason Eddie Murphy's standup career wasn't rated higher on the list is because his movie career took over and he didn't really have time to go back to standup. \n\nThe era of Beverly Hills Cop, The Golden Child, Coming to America, and Trading Places were back to back massive hits for him. Besides Golden Child, I still love all three of the other movies.", "All 3 of them did the worst Sienfeld impressions I've ever seen or heard XD", "Rest In Peace Norm. He lost his battle with cancer.", "I finally got around to reading the dictionary. Turns out the zebra did it.", "The network gave Larry & Jerry notes to add a female character, which lead to Elaine. Jerry acknowledges that the \"network note\" was what really made the show.\n\nJerry talking about Julia Louis-Dreyfus' addition to the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4USDQ3pYfJk (this is from Julia receiving the Mark Twain Prize)", "And hey! Why do they call it stand-up comedy when most people in the room are sitting down? I wanna know!", "And hey! Why do they call it high school? I was never taught to smoke pot by a teacher. I wanna know!", "Just like how the Seinfeld was, but for 22 minutes.", "And hey! Why do they call it a Radler? when most people don't think it's rad. I wanna know!", "Except Mark Fuckerberg will be remembered as the person responsible for the downfall of democracy. Hope the money is worth having a legacy like a 20th century totalitarian dictator.", "That's gold, Jerry! Gold!", "And too busy dating high schoolers", "And hey! Why do they call it 9/11? What happened to 10? I wanna know!", "Liked it. Ooof!!! 😬⚡😬", "Just whitewashing his past as someone who dated high schoolers", "Legend says that a guy mixed his Beer with lemonade one day and because he rode bicycles lots (german word for Bike is Fahrrad, and a person that rides bikes is a Radfahrer) he called it a Radler.\n\nBut tbh, its called different things all over Germany and Europe. Radler was the one that stuck. I know it as a Shandy (in New Zealand)", "I just got the festivus talking pole kit for Christmas. It is pimp as balls. Except there is no aluminum. Understandable. \n\n>Festivus Seinfeld Celebration Kit Festivus Pole Talking Kastanza New Box Damage \n\nhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/154764142591?hash=item2408a967ff:g:gXcAAOSwK4JhxT8A", "Not even us Americans care for the humor much but at this point it’s both an institution that showcases up and coming comic talents and a Saturday night tradition to have on the TV after a long week.", "I’d say it was more of a tie really.", "that's sketch comedy", "It's going to be a prequel. Bee Movie: The Bee-Ginning.", "I remember this! But as a kid i don't think i appreciated how savage it is to have a five minute, three person sketch mocking another comic", "They nailed the cocaine part of Seinfeld at least.", "If you don't have an hour and a half of material, don't have the show be an hour and a half.", "I expect Zuck to follow the Bill Gates playbook. Generate a fuckton of money and then spend 20-40 years playing philanthropy giving random people money. Suddenly your kids think Zuckerberg is an okay guy even though he built his empire on peddling misinformation to their grandparents.\n\nThere's no such thing as a good guy billionaire. They're all psychopaths.", "Dennis Miller is the least funny “comedian” in the history of comedians.\n\nMore fake laughs than Fallon.", "Most billionaires are also narcissists. So they kinda care about public opinion.", "Honestly I could see this doing numbers purely off meme fuel", "Watch it with no sound, fing amazing lmao.", "Someone might say “oh man” if they had a stronger reaction, so maybe it’s the diminutive version of that?\n\nUmm also I’m not sure what’s with all the gendering, or how “oh baby” fits into any of this…", "What an awfully good observation", "I didn't even know he was sick", "Was he curious or confused about some parts of the skit.. and did he have to know more about it?", "It happens a lot in r/movies, I'll see a bunch of posts about related to a certain movie and a trailer will drop a few days later.", "He got to make a multi-season show with his friend, about themselves and stories from their old girlfriends. That kind of continual, reinforced validation turned out much better than, say, Margaret Cho's experience.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wv7YhJsN0\n\nHis horse bits are hilarious imo. This and the one about crazy glue", "Stradivari didn't invent the violin either", "This is what people say is better than modern SNL.", "If only he hadnt gotten really cowardly at the end...\n\nthe the cancer gotten really brave", "True but their best stuff are the pre recorded sketches", "> Stand-up comedy as an art form doesn't seem to age well.\n\nThat's the biggest thing. Sure, Seinfeld's unfunny, OK. Can you name a single funny stand-up comedian from the 1980s? Does [Robin Williams](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UqTp6h9lzo) hold up? Impersonations, silly voices, lesbian jokes, this stuff doing anything for you 40 years later? Eddie Murphy? Ellen Degeneres? Andrew Dice Clay? Any of these people have funny routines from the 80s which hold up today?\n\nSeinfeld's comedy holds up WAY better other comedians of his era, his humor is less topical and he avoids easy targets. People just like to shit on things.", "This right here. I was in my early 20s then and Seinfeld was just one of many doing the \"what's the deal with...\" stuff. He was just the one who got stupid rich doing it.", "That's a little naive. There are literally hundreds of millions of people using Reddit, and no one thinks of posting a Seinfeld video unless someone else already did recently? You think Seinfeld videos aren't already being posted every day that never get any traction?\n\nReddit is filled to the brim with bots and astroturfing, has been for a while. Don't know if that's the case here but I wouldn't bet against it.", "Terrible delivery lol", "Lovitz knew the material.", "Well that's absolutely terrible from the 30 seconds or so I could stand watching lol.", "They called themselves out on it in The Juice / Hubs Gyros sketch.", "Holy shit, I didn't know I needed that", "I mean SNL has 47 writing staff.\n\n47.\n\nAll you're asking is for them to write a 2 minutes sketch, once a week 😂", "One of the consistently annoying things about Jerry Seinfeld is that he thinks he has talent rather than happened to have been on a popular TV show", "The best years of SNL are the ones when the viewer was a teenager. Ask anyone when SNL had their best season, and you can guess their age from that.", "Of course this exists. There are no original ideas. 😕\n\n(Also, this was fantastic. Faaantastic.)", "is there a source of this?", "he's not dead", "Hey, What’s the deal with Seinfeld impressions?", "This video is lost on anyone under 25.", "You have put my thoughts into words so well. The theater feel is what gives SNL it’s magic. thank you barandor making such an eloquent statement", "Gonna have “I wanna know!” stuck in my head all day", "Hooverin' schneef", "had to be a shot at stealing a joke at the end", "Chrissy Teigen and Elon Musk seem to have a compulsive need to be liked by the public, despite both being way too rich to care.", "do you happen to know which episode?", "He had a pretty significant career as a standup even before the show. Also who exactly do you think wrote and created the show?", "Idk why you’re getting downvoted, [it literally is. ](https://youtu.be/Mfz3kFNVopk)", "The exaggeration of the impression would make it seem that way.", "I mean, hey, have they ever even seen a Seinfeld Standup routine? I need to know.", "Let's see Jason Alexander's back room.", "Don't get me started on vinyl siding!", "Then you can stretch that into a recurring segment, then a movie and a sequel!", "It helps that he's a wordsmith and his economy in that regard is pretty amazing. Some of his best bits are beautifully crafted. People go on about the \"what's the deal....\" shit which is truly a big part of his act but he has some VERY fine tuned jokes in between all the cliche bits.", "Omg @ Dennis Miller's outfit.", "“What’s…….. THE DEAL?!?!”", "You like jazz?", "That's the funniest part of this conversation to me so far. \n\n\"Why do they call it coach? Business class has businessmen. It's not like coaches are flying!\" \n\nJerry: \"That's gold! I gotta write this down!\"", "In fairness though, Cosby had already been in a popular TV show called 'I Spy' years before that which got him national recognition. Also a lot of voice work for 'Fat Albert'.", ">Steven Wright\n\nAnd Emo Philips. I was right there with you", "Cancer: You're gonna die, bitch \nNorm: no u", "I see they took the noun shotgun approach to that title.", "Source ?", "Do they make twice as much honey?", "That was most non-non-non-non-NON-heinous Ted!", "Is it his PR or just copy cats of reddit trying to get that sweet sweet karma? When they see one thing that gets upvoted, reddit drones start copying hoping for karma.", "Sniff is funnier.", "Larry David", "All sketch shows are hit and miss. People just like to complain.", "Anyone wanna rename memes to creilks?", "Gilbert Gottfried actually does a pretty good one.", "Not if you have seen letterkenny lol squirrelly dan saying \"ive hoovered my fair share of schneef\" is hilarious", "He would definitely use that half and half but right after the ovaltine bit", "A 3 hour episode of Comedians in Cars Getting Drugs would probably produce at least 20 or 30 minutes of great stuff, maybe even more if we count mildly interesting anecdotes that aren't funny or random knowledge as something worth watching.", "I swear it happens with comedians more than anything else, too. It might just be because it’s really easy to repost and old classic joke.\n\nI would love for a whistleblower to do an AMA. \n\nI have a theory, tinfoil hat on, which basically has Mr. PR Lady, not post the content itself, but have a bot set up looking for related submissions, then when it finds relevant content, it sends in the drones to upvote, and Reddit does the rest.", "He’s been married to her for 25 years.", "As is Wayne getting angry because he thinks them saying 'Sniff' would be funnier ;)", "Rare Dennis Miller skit appearance. Now I see why they moved him to Weekend Update.", "Hey! You’re not pressing anything!", "That was absolutely hilarious and I feel bad but the earmuffs one got me", "I mean this was before the show, but yes", "They seem more like they are making fun of Larry David", "I'm 38 and just watched the entire Seinfeld series for the first time. It's not that funny. There are one or two laugh out louds and one or two gentle exhalations per season. Even though it ended in the 90s it felt very early 80s the entire way through.", "They had a few great casts, but definitely not that one", "Okay someone needs to make this version of American Psycho", "Pre-show Seinfeld was actually pretty chill.\n\n[Seinfeld on The Tonight Show, 1984.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63fwkZFGJmc&ab_channel=JohnnyCarson)\n\n[Seinfeld from 1979.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV6A2mS9PG4&ab_channel=Guarazera)\n\n[Seinfeld from 1977](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLn1Eo6EXfs&ab_channel=Guarazera) looked like a middle-aged Jewish mother.\n\nThis sketch takes Seinfeld and turns him up to 11. Maybe they turn it up to 33, because there are 3 of them, each trying to out-Seinfeld the others.\n\nYou know, many SNL impressionists don't do accurate impressions, and instead do caricatures. Dana Carvey's impressions, for example, are wildly inaccurate, but they're funny because they take one or two things about a person and exaggerate them. [His impression of George Bush](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEZg8HBfwSA&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive) barely looks and sounds like the actual person did, and yet it's something Carvey is most famous for.\n\n[Andy Samberg's Nic Cage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdA9_mtXYME&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive) is a screaming maniac, because that's how Cage acts in his most famous movies, but he probably isn't like that in person.\n\n[Kenan Thompson's Steve Harvey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBov9YUvGss&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive) barely sounds like him, but it's still funny.\n\nFew SNL impressionists have gone for accuracy instead of exaggeration. Bill Hader's impressions are usually spot-on, and so are Darrell Hammond's.", ">He talks about this on an episode of Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee, I forget which one, but basically he approved, he said, \"Hey, I thought those jokes were funny\"\n\nFTFY", "What a garbage show", "I got 15s in before I had to force close.", "\n>His impression of George Bush barely looks and sounds like the actual person did,\n\nAre you kidding? He sounds just like Bush imo", "He's resting. Leave him alone.", "Or so the Germans would have us believe.", "Extreme deadpan. The one joke that I'll always remember by Steven Wright was this\n\n>I tried hanging myself with a bungee cord...I kept almost dying...", "Yeah but the Hedberg's jokes were funny. Really fucking funny. The delivery just took them to the next level.", "Orange pineapple banana is pretty fire", "Yeah, I got saturated very quickly. Funny, but too much.", "https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxRQzIBJrvNiwNXK0ghXqm0NecSOCaw5o7", "Came all the way here to say that? Do you feel better now that you've gotten it off your chest? Is anyone else allowed to enjoy things you dont? Fuck outta here with that lol", "You gotta hand it to the cancer, really.", "Prove us wrong and write a TV Show.", ">The Devil's Dandruff\n\nBorrowing this, thank you!", "….bad 80s comedians in general…including Seinfeld. \n\nFTFY", "They honestly all just sounded like [Will Ferrell’s Harry Caray](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQDqRlMeJ4U).", "George Carlin's stuff is still funny, but that's because he's actually funny.", "Jerry Seinfeld needs to do that first\n\n(Who’s the ‘we’ here? You got two people in that skin suit you got on?)", "I was a huge Steven Wright fan. He seemed to drop out of sight sometime in the 90's. But around 2015 or so, my daughter sent me an email about a parent's weekend at her college, and I saw that Steven Wright was the headline act for a show one night. We got tickets and he was a good as ever. \"Everywhere is within walking distance... if you have enough time\". He could pack more jokes in 10 minutes than most comedians would tell in an entire show because none of them were much longer than that one.", "I love that people are confused about this", "I feel like they're doing half Seinfeld half Walken but somehow it works, this is hilarious.", "Man, SNL was funny at one time.", "I saw Jay Leno in a little comedy club in Philadelphia in the early 80's. At that point was was a semi-regular on Letterman's late night show that aired after Carson, but he had been at it for years doing little clubs like that.", "Seinfeld dated a 17 year old child. \n\nI’ll get hit with the “age of consent” comments; but I don’t care. \n\nSeinfeld dated a 17 year old child and his friends were cool with it.", "Try getting a reservation at the Chinese restaurant now, you fucking stupid bastard!", "This is basically what I hear wherever Seinfeld is on. I can't fucking stand him or his trash \"comedy\"/writing. I will never understand how he got where he is.", "Wha? There's a lot more to it than his delivery, in fact, if his jokes weren't funny making the delivery as dry as it was wouldn't be doing them any favors. Just look at Andrew Dice Clay, the most flamboyant delivery in the business and his jokes are awful.", "Plays? That's genuinely him.", "Mission accomplished.", "100 times funnier than the actual show. And this wasent funny at all.", "No one did, sounds like not even his friends in the business knew.", "You call Seinfeld a bad comedian?\n\nHmm. Influenced the art form permanently. Changed TV comedy permanently. Still innovating with his Netflix show really, I mean it was a totally new idea in early streaming. \n\nYou’re pretty hard to impress! You must be successful in your creative medium on a level I can’t even comprehend, I bet! \n\nHell I’m probably lucky to have this Reddit exchange with someone of your caliber! I should save this for future reference! !RemindMe 2040", "In 50 and remember Seinfeld before his show. \n\nHis standup absolutely sucks. \n\nThe tv show may be the best ever.", "As if it's a show about nothing. Nothing.", "I know it, everyone calling Jerry a hack in here as if he didn't do this stuff BETTER than anyone else. That's why he had a successful show with Larry David. Gimme a break reddit, it was the late 80's this was the comedy zeitgeist, just because you don't find it funny now means shit back then.", "I think we've all figured out since Curb Your Enthusiasm started that Larry David is why Seinfeld was funny.", "This feels like a modern SNL skit, mostly because the joke was killed in the first 60 seconds and we still have to sit through 3 more minutes. They should just cut the show to 30 minutes at this point.", "I mean, how could this show _not_ have Joel McHale in it? Tony Hale is just the icing.", "Tom hanks is a pedophile", "Everything in the 80s would go well with Ray bans and sax. And it mostly did too", "I had actually forgotten how enjoyable SNL was in the 90s when no one spent the entire sketch reading cue cards.", "Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David both come off as giant entitled pricks. I also think that the Seinfeld show would not have worked without Larry David.", "Agreed, the comic geniuses in here saying Seinfeld is bland are probably the same people would would think Elvis' music is boring. Nobody appreciates any of it because they are both ubiquitous in American culture. The modern sitcom is literally made from groundbreaking shows like Seinfeld (and I'd argue its better than modern TV). This was the apex of comedy at the time.", "And hey! What's the deal with airlines? Why are they so special. We have trains, and buses, but don't call them groundlines. I wanna know!", "Everyone forgets where they came from...if Seinfeld didn't exist then TV as we know it would absolutely be very different.", "The joke is on you for being absolutely convinced that Seinfeld is funny.", "Well that was pure torture", "This SNL skit is perfect and infuriating for that very reason. Really lays out the formula for that whole line of humor. Reeks of Dennis Miller too.", "That was great. Thanks for sharing.", "I do not understand the trend of calling women females, it sounds so fucking odd. Female is a term for animals or police/medical descriptions. Most slang/lingo doesn’t really bother me, but I hate this one.", ">Reducing it down to \"well I can live in my castle and not give a shit\" only applies to certain personalities/people. \n \nProbably the people living in those castles", "I actually went to look it up since I didn’t see that anywhere else in the comments.", "I think you could do it around his comedy, but not around him as a character. He would have to be a minor character in the show and build episodes out of the concepts of single jokes he has. \nHis part being almost a cameo, sitting at a bar or something saying one liners while the rest of the cast carries the plot.", "I love the show Seinfeld, but I always thought his standup was garbage.", "Shit, most of his relatives didn't know. From the sounds of it, the only people who knew were his immediate family members.", "His stand up bits from Sienfeld (at least the earlier seasons that I've been watching) have not aged well. I guess they worked back then but yeah they're not very funny in 2021.", "Late 80s? Late 90s would not be pre Seinfeld Richards", "I was taking the driver’s ed class in the late 90’s, but the video was well over 10 years old - it was made well before the show had been created. This particular driving school definitely didn’t invest in the latest teaching materials.", "In fact, it seems [the video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-l_i3Qx1vKs) is on YouTube, what a treat!!", "I'm just appreciative of how rarely they need to read their lines off the cards.", "Weird, I saw him live a few years ago and was positively surprised. I expected either a bunch of \"what's the deal with...\" jokes or just references to the show but his whole set was hilarious and fresh. One of the best big celebrity stand-ups I've seen.", "\"i was a huge Steven Wright fan\" dear god my brain assumed he died and i was so freaked out that i immediately looked him up before reading the rest of your comment lol. Im still depressed about Norm passing away and couldn't handle that Wright is gone too.", "This reminds me of the Wayne Brady/Dave Chappelle skit", "His standup sucks, terribly annoying. His sitcom was great though.", "Not so much premier social criticism as basic/boring fact", "I remember even Darrel Hammond saying he does that. Just find a few things and exaggerate the hell out of them, and they end up being associated with the real person just from the popular impression/caricature.", "Thank you!", "I mean yeah they would have the occasional Adam Sandler doing Opera man or some shit, but the cast of Mike Myers, Dana Carvey, Phil Hartman, Jon Lozitz, Tim meadows, Chris Farley, David Spade, Dennis Miller, Norm McDonald, Julia Sweeney, Chris Rock, Jan Hooks… Even throwaway stuff was often decent, or at least passable rather than what we have today, and usually have with the show, which is cringy. Early 90s SNL was probably their best period though I’d understand why many would say the original seasons/Eddie Murphy seasons were. Really though, I don’t just think those were the two best eras, but the only even good eras the show had. That’s not to say they didn’t have great talents sprinkled throughout, I love Kristen wiig and I think bill hader was on for a while… But while I like those comedic actors (I wouldn’t call them comedians exactly), the show itself wasn’t anything special having them, and they did more interesting things besides it. Even will Ferrell who had plenty of good sketches I think shined way more in life outside snl, and still had stinkers like the “baby don’t hurt me” sketches with Kattan (who sucked).", "Glick does [THE BEST](https://www.nbc.com/maya-and-marty/video/jiminy-glick-with-jerry-seinfeld/3063362) bad Seinfeld impression and it doesn't seem to make him very angry.", "SNL did something similar a few year back with Jim Carrey.\n\nIt was surprisingly well done.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/ECx3wKaujOw", "Seems to me I've seen Damon Wayans in this sketch.", "Yeah they're simultaneously the kid who tells a funny joke and the kid who won't stop repeating/trying to expand on it to the point of ruining it.", "None of that made him funny to me though.", "Yes, some of what you say is technically true.", "Bee Movie 2: The Bee-ing", "Hey!", "Yeah even the sexual predation was a one time deal as far as we know.", "Okay, okay. Maybe I need to give him another chance.", "Not me, I always called it kyo-kyaine.", "Precisely.", "Everything from letter Kenny is pure comedic gold.", "Nose beers\n\nYayo \n\nChina White", "Fair enough I guess :)\n\nI’m just thinking I gotta get to seeing your act some time, because it must presumably be fantastic!\n\nIf you’re not a comedian or show producer/writer well then…You know.. as it goes, we generally say someone is bad at an art form when we can do as good or better, otherwise it comes off a bit jaded. (this almost never happens as a result because anyone who actually tries to do an art form often learns to appreciate another’s efforts and almost never criticize it).", "There’s a lot of good impressions on SNL. A lot of bad ones too but Carvey’s George Bush was great. Right now they have some cast members who are really great at voices and a new guy who does a great Trump, a far cry from Baldwins cartoon character.", "Every Kenan impression or character is just Kenan with a huge smile shouting in his own voice. No disrespect.", "Can confirm! Dude saying its garbage needs 2 give his balls a tug 🤣", "So, the only way I can have a valid opinion of what I think is funny is to also be a successful comedian? Just so I get it, this means I also can’t critique a movie unless I’ve won an Oscar, can’t critique food unless I’m a 5 star chef from Paris, and can’t critique music unless I’m an award winning composer. Right?", "Win an award? No. Just do it. \n\nHow does it sound when I say a certain snowboarder totally sucks, but then you ask and I tell you I don’t even know how or have experience snowboarding?\n\nI get it. A lot of people have learned to be comfortable with having an opinion on movies and entertainment. But comedy is just one man as writer and performer. You kind of need to respect that a bit different than a 300m movie show with thousands of crew and cast, etc.", "Your philosophy on art sucks and is objectively wrong, especially with comedy. Seinfeld never makes me laugh, even when I can see the “good structure” of a joke. He never surprises me with the angle of the joke. Influential? Sure. Over rated? 100%.", "Jerry mentioned that he always went home when the show was done. He never was into staying out and drugging up. Dudes pretty cool.", "Does it really piss him off? A comedian with no sense of humor.", "but, TV folks now see the (potential) upside to comedians making the jump to TV, so it's unlikely that nowadays a comedian will become as \"big\" without at least an offer of a TV show of some sort.", "Up beat Aziz", "Jiminy Glick is wildly underrated. Great youtube rabbit hole to go down.", "Yeah. His delivery is great too. He has the ability to sell a joke. If I did the same bit, I reckon I'd bomb every time.", "He was actually straight edge. He got successful partly because he was sober and functional and could do a stand-by spot on stage if an act was too out of it.", "That’s wild how long Jerry was out there as a standup before he landed his own show. He put in the work and the time", "Correct. It was the tuba.", "The refried beans joke is one Mitch Hedburg used. But i think they came up with it first? He was 90s.", "Agreed, but I think we’re saying the same thing just emphasizing slightly different facets.", "He really is and I do it regularly. I think it's because Martin Short is incredibly funny and his mind is unbelievably agile. \n\nWatching him make up mean things on the fly, often so subtle or deep that it takes quite some time before the audience understands, is like watching a master sculptor at work. \n\nHe's often known for being the perfectionist, memorizing and perfecting bits well ahead of time (e.g. making the same jokes at all his interviews about some project), but when he starts a back and forth it's wonderful to watch. \n\nPlus, Glick can be [fairly brutal](https://youtu.be/rqBC33jBc8w).", "I didn't say he wasn't funny. I said he's not a good actor.", "Black actors Dave. We gotta stick together.", "The interviews I've seen of him have thrown out a pissy vibe. I could be wrong, but he seems defensive if people don't praise him.", "This is GOLD, Jerry, GOLD!", "Thank you. I don't watch it but never really have. I assumed it was still pretty alright if it was still on air.", "George: Don't just look at it, eat it.\n\nSusan: You're an idiot.", "It's from the Incel Dictionary.", "John Philip Sousa did invent (helped to invent) the Sousaphone. It's the wraparound tuba for marching bands.", "[If it's of interest](http://www.skooldays.com/categories/primetime/pt1055.htm):\n\n> So who won? Well, it seems the show’s producers couldn’t decide either, so they filmed four different series endings. One had Benson winning, one had Gatling winning, one had both losing to a third candidate, and the fourth had both men watching the returns with no winner announced. The producers decided to air the fourth ending.", "I've been watching Seinfeld for the first time, knew he was playing himself but didn't realize how authentic it would be until he had that speech about how natural it is to ogle fifteen year old girls in one episode.", "I got Dear John flashbacks watching this - Jere Burns character used to talk like that at times.", "The “crilk” vs “meam” fight was just like the “bro” vs “manssiere” fight on the show. I wonder if it inspired it at all.", "Here’s a different one with Tom Hanks on SNL https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ResXYpp4OY", "Seinfeld is popular right now becsuse it just went to Netflix\n\nOccam’s razor", "That tonight show clip was gold. Didn't know he was on carson, thanks for the link.", "He was the other half. It wasn't all David. You don't get the credits of creator, writer, producer, and actor of the greatest sitcom of all time without having talent to back that up. Seinfeld only seems hacky now looking back because every hacky comedian that came after ripped off his style and material.", "Maybe I should have said comediennes?", "Seinfeld was notoriously straight edge, he didn't hang out with most comedians partly because he was not into the ubiquitous drug culture" ]	519	videos	SNL's parody of Jerry Seinfeld's standup (1988) ft: Tom Hanks, Dennis Miller & Jon Lovitz
https://youtu.be/EShUeudtaFg??	/r/videos/comments/rpz10l/how_is_prangent_formed/	[ "Watching this video made me really insecure how to spell pregnante", "Such a classic! Reminded me of this other[one](https://youtu.be/LK7nO78ijIg)", "One of my favorite videos ever. Always makes me laugh.", "My circle as nomal.", "You thought someone hadn't seen this, huh?", "What a classic. I sent this to my sister when she was pregnant. She had to stop playing it because she was in pain from laughing.", "You must do way to instain mother", "pragante!", "[But how is babby formed?](https://youtu.be/Ll-lia-FEIY)", "can i get pagranet by fuznking evbody?" ]	13	videos	How is prangent formed?
https://youtu.be/_p8hpaSfXBE	/r/videos/comments/rpza7w/36_hours_in_a_culvert_drainage_pipe/	[ "trippy adventure dude. You gotta find a chick thatll do that. she be a keeper", "Utterly pointless bs, here let me drag a bunch of stuff to nowhere and pretend it is profound.", "Really cool little build. I enjoyed the journey.", "Prime beaver territory! Hah love this guys videos", "I imagine you have a boring life and never read anything.", "Sorry but while you were imagining life, I lived it and not by dragging crap into a culvert and pretending it was a profound experience. Of course being the expert you are with 3yrs on Reddit with minimal karma, that does make you an expert in the loser category…." ]	7	videos	36 Hours In a Culvert Drainage Pipe
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rpzehy/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rpzehy/deleted_by_user/	[ "Oh it's a vegan rant...", "Pretty big deal for someone to talk about saving the environment and for them not to be vegan.", "Not at all.", "Being vegan doesn't save the environment", "Ugh, what a miserable woman. She needs a steak.", "lol no", "If you're insinuating you have to be vegan to care about the environment you're just absolutely wrong", "It helps, doesn't hurt. Less need for livestock, less methane emissions, less greenhouse gases etc", "Seems completely reasonable for someone to want to keep their source of food free of pollution.", "being vegan or vetarian wont save the world, there is no change we as random individuals can make in out lives that will save the world. the 100 or so companies that do most of the polluting world wide need to stop to save the world", "Boycotting isn’t from an alternative reality. https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/ethicalcampaigns/boycotts/history-successful-boycotts", "Yk it was bullshit when vegan gaze popped up" ]	12	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/YOeFzI2oF8c	/r/videos/comments/rq0mbo/its_raining_monkeys/	[ "Where is this?", "Silver Springs in Central, FL. A friend of mine just shared it on her Facebook. I figured people may appreciate it. It’s gnarly.", "Panther coming.", "Still haven't evolved past the belly flop stage.", "Um, there aren't supposed to be monkeys on florida", "They seem frightened. I wonder if the tour operator has someone in the bush chasing them and scaring them so that they can \"entertain\" their guests.", "They are wild. This is fun for them.", "It's okay, they're on meth and fit right in.", "Lol great vid. We took the kids on a kayak trip on the Silver River and saw them. They display some very aggro sexual behavior, basically banging each other over and over right in the trees. “Look at the monkeys kids…wait, no, do NOT look at the monkeys!”", "Monkey raaaaaaain\n\nSome stay dry and others feel the pain", "hallelujah", "I was curious too, googled and apparently they're all descendants of 12 monkeys bought and released on a island in the 30s by someone planning a Tarzan attraction, who didn't realise they could swim.\n\n Apparently the population size is a worry as they all carry herpes and so they try to do trap and sterilize programs every few years to keep it down.", "Populations been steadily getting out of control recently. Saw an article where they found a few close to Jacksonville fl which is a couple hours north", "or you know, maybe they are wild and want to cross the river.", "Rise of the Planet of the Apes, but with Florida Monkeys? It's just going to be more of the same, isn't it?", "When monkeys reign, they poor.\n\nWhen billionaires reign, we poor.", "> 12 monkeys\n\nYou don't say...", "At least Florida will be the first to go from global warming. Good riddance, absolute filth of a state.", "These monkeys have a way better life than I will ever have", "WAAAGH-SPLASH", "why did the monkey cross the river?", "Monkey raaaaaiiin\n\nThe monkeys didn't fall they dove right in", "Also, they're f'ing monkeys. \n\nMost Americans don't like unleashed stray dogs in their neighborhood, for plenty of good reason, let alone monkeys.", "The first step in making monkey bread." ]	25	videos	It's Raining Monkeys!
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rq2bcb/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rq2bcb/deleted_by_user/	[ "The new Star Wars movies seem much better than I remember.... This is good, really good.", "Finally a new star wars movie I actually enjoy", "you'll get your last jedi when you fix this damn door!!", "that was much more funny than it should have been, well done.", "\"How'd that get in there?\"", "Kylo Ren is such a poorly written character. Not even Adam Driver could save it.", "Thank you for posting", "A little to late to save the franchise" ]	9	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3oHpup-pk	/r/videos/comments/rq2qbg/just_over_15_years_ago_we_learned_how_a_flea/	[ "Living rooms...dinettes", "That felt longer than Titanic. I know it was about 3hrs and 14 minutes longer but it just felt about the same.", "Just like a mini mall", "those eyes though. how does he keep em from popping out.", "Thats the power of living rooms, dinettes", "Id really like to go. it sounds like it has it all. lets go!", "That song still fucking slaps.", "It’s just like a mini-mall! HEY HEY!", "I still say “living room, bedroom, dinettes! Oh yeah!” , every time I say “living rooms”. Also the fact this is 15 years old and not 25 is astonishing", "[He did one for Bernie Sanders, too.](https://youtu.be/jval6WwknUU)", "[Who wants linoleum floors?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkT-jsadTzo)", "Oh yeah! We got it.", "I got to meet this legend twice! Once at the advertised flea market, and once as a customer at the local phone store I used to work for. BOTH TIMES HE SANG THIS FOR ME! great man.", "I like how the tiles are falling out of the ceiling. I feel like they could have adjusted the shot to avoid showing that.", "I love that this is the video Ryan is watching when he's working at Michael Scott Paper Company.", "Hey man save some cocaine for the rest of\nus ok.", "You just get sucked in man", "This [mashup ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-8XmhNF0Vkw) with the Pet Shop Boys is great.", "[Who wants to be a deputy?](https://youtu.be/z0KgEjt7suY)", "Now make sure you match my clothes to the furniture ok", "[GLORY TO YOU....AND YOUR HOUSEEEEE](https://i.imgur.com/yIq9yoI.jpeg)", "I remember seeing a segment with this guy on cnn not long after this clip blew up. It was actually a very insightful and interesting story about the history of industry (especially black-owned industry) in Montgomery, AL. This guy is a pretty successful area businessman. It was a pretty cool segment.", "I still don't know what a mini-mall is, the only time I've ever heard that term is in this video", "I'm glad for having watched this. This is now my genre of rap.", "What the fuck", "This has a commercial kings vibe to it", "It’s older than 15 years. It was on ebaumsworld before YouTube existed. Kids these days don’t understand that videos didn’t start in 2006.", "Whoa...that's creepy..I randomly thought about this video today. A part of my soul just knew it's the anniversary 😂", "That's so awesome of him. I hope he knows he's famous online and people seem to really like him.", "Eminem been mighty quiet since this dropped", "Reminds me of [Jones' big ass truck rental and storage](https://youtu.be/qoLS9We9hl4)", "[Do you like shopping with other people?](https://youtu.be/Xvr1B63fNxQ)", "I remember him from the Regal car dealership commercials. He used the same jam", "This guy was a comedian though", "When Facebook allowed you to create your personal URL let's just say I grabbed a special FleaMarket Montgomery one. Don't look for me.", "I'm looking for a dinette. Do you know if he has dinettes?", "Tim and Eric needa hire this guy", "We talkin bout flea market?", "Such a catchy tune!", "So it felt longer and you know it was longer but it felt about the same?\n\nWhat?", "that’s definitely what they said and definitely not what they meant", "I love how his suit blends in to the furniture so he can lay ambushes or sneak up on thieves.", "It was recorded in 2006 and was first uploaded to Youtube that year according to knowyourmeme. The only result I got from Ebaumsworld was uploaded in 2007 and is just a link to the youtube video.", "I do this too and barely anybody gets the reference, I saw the video back in 2007 even.", "Must have been after ebaumsworld stopped flat out stealing videos.", "Liberals, bedrooms. Lol", "Longest two minutes of my life.", "Montgomery!", "It’s just like it’s just like it’s just like a mini… MALL \n \nWow this takes me straight back to my dorm room in 2004-2005.", "Is he really small?", "The tinny \"To the left\" had me rolling", "Cool. Where's the 10 hour version I can use to torture international criminals to extract information from them?", "With such intensity in this man's eyes, this is truly his magnum opus.", "Montgomery", "And it was stealing stuff from other sites like newgrounds and albinoblacksheep long before youtube existed. Ebaumsworld was the ifunny of it's day.", "For sure, I vividly remember the massive wave of hate content directed towards Eric Bauman during the early-to-mid-2000s. He was up there with Bush, being lampooned en masse.", "That would’ve totally ruined the ambiance they were going for.", "That hypnotized me, it's great", "i wonder how he is doing now", "It’s just like. It’s just like. Ifunny. Oh yeah!", "'The results of the focus group came back and they said the biggest issue facing us is that people aren't sure if a flea market is much like their mini malls they're used to. \n\n'No worries, I know just how to communicate that they are in fact very similar..'", "Oof, right in the feels.", ".....fair enough...", "Holy hell these are amazing, how many low budget music videos did this wizard create??", "I also like the Cleveland version. https://youtu.be/qhziOUWhKA0", "Unfortunately he’s no longer alive.", "Hate to ruin your nostalgia trip, but it’s not as old as you think, bud. \nThis video was recorded over a year and a half after the creation of Youtube.", "That never happened. They still steal videos.", "I didn’t even have to hit play and now it’s stuck in my head again. I randomly get this stuck in my head as well. It’s just like, a mini, song stuck in my head.", "He’s just like", "He's on Cameo: https://www.cameo.com/sammystephens", "American black guys have been rocking these huge, baggy suits for a long time. It started, I think, in the eighties, it peaked in the nineties and fell away sometime in the mid 2000's. \n\nIt was a fashion that had weirdly long staying power.\n\n(edit- it may still be popular with the Black Baptist Preacher subset, Im not sure)", "Honestly a banger to this day.", "One of the most epic nights I can remember out in Montgomery Alabama when I was stationed there.. 2007 2008 time frame\n\nI was out of the bar with some friends. All of a sudden on stage I look over and this guy took the stage and the entire bar went crazy as he did the rap live. It was unexpected and awesome!!", "A Biggie Small hey hey\n\n\nWait that's not right", "\"Japanese commercials are so weird.\"", "It always bugged the crap out of me that they called this a \"Flea Market\". \n\nFlea Markets are another name for a swap meet, a temporary \"store\" either in a building or outside where a lot of different people are selling things.\n\nThis place is a strip mall.", "I always figured it started in the 40s with the Zoot suits?", "Does it trace all the way back to them? It might. I dont really know, that sounds totally plausible though.", "Long time ago, a friend of mine made a mashup of this with “Minimal” by Pet Shop Boys.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/-8XmhNF0Vkw", "This was from 2006? Why does it feel like it was filmed in 1986?", "How is this guy missing so many ceiling tiles? Did he not know they were filming a commercial that day?", "Everyone is posting their favourite remixes, so here's mine: [M I N I M A L L](https://youtu.be/MhVz3WGFDKM)", "Sure, but can you [choose your fabric and match the curtains too](https://youtu.be/0UInVdSFhF4)?", "This is not one of them.", "Source?\n\nhttps://www.cameo.com/sammystephens", "It’s just like, it’s just like, a mini mall!", "Yeah, he had to make a whole commercial explaining it. Not a great name.", "Goes well with Red House Furniture \n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnOyMSEWNTs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnOyMSEWNTs) \nand \nCullman Liquidators \n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-RLqLx1iYI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-RLqLx1iYI)", "I'm a STARFISH! https://youtu.be/nW5-H2HlVmY", "If I ever get back to my mom's house, I gotta dig up some of the old CD-Rs I made of videos to share.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNQK_oaCauE", "I sing this line all the time" ]	93	videos	Just over 15 years ago, we learned how a flea market in Alabama could share similarities with a smaller version of a mall
https://youtu.be/BWsTJgufJxg	/r/videos/comments/rq2s22/the_great_depression_under_4_minutes/	[ "Cliche stock footages and slideshows, call it a video to grab views by posting on reddit. They probably can't speak a whole sentence with any fluency, that's why they hide behind a speech engine.", "CAKEUSDT lol", "According to you two, people who have a disability, for example, being mute or heavy stutterer, shouldnt be allowed to make videos?" ]	3	videos	The Great Depression under 4 Minutes
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rq31ag/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rq31ag/deleted_by_user/	[ "Thanks for the post, I also love this documentary. That said while I was totally convinced on my first viewing this post prompted me to become a lot more skeptical that Tim found the exact approach Vermeer used, especially doing some followup research.", "A very interesting post.", "The mirror on the stick strat at the 6:00 mark was insanely accurate.", "[ Jump to 06:00 @ Biggest Secret in Art History](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hcqoo7DIEo&t=0h6m0s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Simply Mystery, Video Length: [10:02])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@05:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hcqoo7DIEo&t=0h5m55s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Yea for sure! I tried it out myself and it works great. It's just very time consuming.", "Not everyone seems to agree, judging by the downvotes." ]	7	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRwWyWUtjY	/r/videos/comments/rq38za/the_worlds_largest_nerf_gun_over_12_feet_long_and/	[ "Clickbait thumbnail.", "I see a picture of the thing that the video is about.", "Why not just upgrade the propulsion system in the original nerf gun?" ]	3	videos	The World's Largest Nerf Gun - over 12 feet long and 200lbs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW7PwHXyq5M&feature=youtu.be	/r/videos/comments/rq40w9/one_company_supplies_the_food_for_starbucks_kfc/	[ "Which company is it", "Oh, Look, OP has discovered the food service supply chain.", "That sucks", "Soylent Corporation", "There is a protein powder out called soylent as well\n\nhttps://soylent.com/collections/all-drinks/complete-meal?utm_source=adwords&gclid=Cj0KCQiA5aWOBhDMARIsAIXLlkeEnpsxMmS4eJOwUFlDK44NGO6EJmwa_dEImO8RzCaPGwPFBhoDqJoaAuQoEALw_wcB", "The Office of Secret Intelligence? Man, this goes way deeper than I thought.", ">We're really in dire need of a new wave ~~of antitrust actions~~\n\nFTFY. Everybody clowns the new world order conspiracies, but look up how many companies control all the defense contractors and how much money they've made since we started our perpetual middle eastern engagement. It boggles my mind that people care about such silly things and simply choose to ignore things directly in front of their faces.", "Wait until you find out who trains all the new chefs.", "NO WOMEN, NO CHILDREN", "Cuz ppl act like ma and pa farms could supply McDonald's with 100 cars an hour with of french fries as if it's logistically possible.", "I'm a simple man, I see venture bros. I upvote.", "I'm a simple man, I see venture bros. I upvote.", "Only two possible options.", "that's great and all but not everything has to be \"what about ... . \\[ insert bad thing\\]\"", "There’s a small plant in DeSoto, Kansas, that cranks out 5 million balls of pizza dough every week just to supply the east coast institutional food service market (prisons, schools, etc). And that’s a small business. \n\nThe food service market is huge, there are zero antitrust issues with OSI. They’re not even in the top five in their industry. They’re also not the exclusive meat supplier to McDonald’s, they’re one of five suppliers, and that’s been the case for half a century.", "OSI isn’t even in the top five in their particular segment of the food service market (meat processing), nor are they even the exclusive provider to McDonald’s. \n\nAntitrust doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means.", "They don’t even come close to “dominating”. Their revenue is a tenth that of JBS and Tyson.", "- 9 million pounds of potatoes. Per day. \n- 3 million pounds of beef. Per day.", "This shouldn't be legal..", "It hasn't been the same since the Pyramid wars.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/ahSe-XJPJZM", "You're grossly underestimating how huge the restaurant industry is, and consequently, how massive the food supply chain is. This company isn't even a top 5 meat supplier in the country. There's no monopoly going on here. Just a fairly sizable company with several big name customers.", "The narration is giving me weird vibes... Is it a robot voice?", "Most of the mozzarella for frozen and fast food pizza comes from Leprino Foods in Denver. This is more common than you think", "Hell, they’re under $10B a year. They’re small..", "Why not? What should be illegal about selling food?", "Imagine how much hookers and blow OSI has bought over the decades to keep McDonald's happy.", "I was surprised that it wasn't Sysco.", "The sad thing is the notion of recycling people into food doesn’t even seem all that shocking now, as long as they solve the Prion problem.", "Imagine how many hookers have gone into that mystery meat…", "It's open to competition.", "Economy of scale keeps fast food cheap. Break this supply chain up between 10 or 20 suppliers and be prepared to pay 5x the current price for a happy meal.", "Is it though?", "No wey.", "We don't have that one, but my company 'owns' the production networks of a ton of american cheese plants and my boss once said (and i've since stolen) \"we could shut down America's cheese production if we wanted to\".\n\nto be fair, we are not large enough for that to be true, but it's also interesting how relatively-true it is.", "Ha!", "Yep. The company really isn't that big and there are a lot of other food supply companies.", "Maybe everyone just please stop eating weird bullshit. Industrial food production is fucking depressing.", "How can you make a video with this many careless typos when half the illustrations are text?", "Time for Bezos to drop some pocket change and make Amazon Restaurant Prime", "Just decapitate them first?", "Have you heard how many people that eat eventually die?\n\nIt is close to 100%!", "Yea. If you watch the whole video, you'll see a single incident in a Chinese factory almost fucked the whole company.", "Wait til you lean about Sysco and US foods and how they supply tons of non chain restaurants. Welcome to modern life.", "It's probably a rip-off video where they took the audio from another channel's video and redid the illustrations. There's no way the original creator would fuck it up so much, the audio says $6.3 billion and the illustration shows $3.6 billion.", "Same, I thought it was gonna talk about how so many fast food places get their supplies from Sysco.", "At the 7:27 mark, you say 6.3 billion, but your graphic shows 3.6 billion. Very interesting and informative video. Thank you.", "Is infectious matter localised to just brain tissue? Easy peasy then!", "Definitely not human but I think he's just british", "I thought that’s what Whole Foods was about.", "And all the schools! And all the prisons!", "[ Jump to 07:27 @ Referenced Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW7PwHXyq5M&t=0h7m27s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Karl Stories, Video Length: [09:12])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@07:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW7PwHXyq5M&t=0h7m22s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Lifelong restaurant employee and manager here. Sysco and US Foods provide the food and ingredients for the super-vast majority of every (non-fast food) restaurant in America whether they're chains or not.", "And my axe!", "I believe so. Prions at least.", "Sure sure. But this would be a restaurant with everything.\n\nKnock off burgers.\n\nKnock off tacos.\n\nKnock off pizzas.\n\nKnock off subs.\n\nKnock of chicken.\n\nMm mmmmm i love me some Amazon Prime tacos.", "With all those things being knocked off, would it be run by cats?", "Thats the cheesiest shit ive ever curd", "World hunger and CJD solved!", "Oh yes", "My brother worked for a restaurant that liked to masquerade as an upscale restaurant that would partner with local providers. The only orders he ever accepted were from Sysco.", "This is why I shop at local co-ops and famers' markets, pack meals, and when I eat in restaurants I do it for the artistry.\n\nIt doesn't have to be this way. We all simply have to pay people to do what's truly good.\n\nOn the other hand, even vaxxing and masking to save lives was a non-starter....", "I’m so weird, I like/have nostalgia for SYSCO burgers. Last time I had one was at Astroworld for my brother in laws company outing." ]	62	videos	One company supplies the food for Starbucks, KFC, McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Burger King and more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7v9evMlC48	/r/videos/comments/rq41p3/attention_inequalitythe_unequal_distribution_of/	[ "a teenager lecturing about america's problems\n\nNo fucking thank you", "Who else is gonna tell you? The future is these teens.", "Not trying to insult you but what's wrong about that? Just because someone is young doesn't mean they're always wrong.", "I'll trust valid experts and not another kid trying to be popular on YouTube." ]	4	videos	Attention inequality-The unequal distribution of attention throughout the media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYEWwVgFIcg&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive	/r/videos/comments/rq439f/90s_snl_sketch_with_nicolas_cage_tiny_elvis/	[ "Goddamn that was terrible, even by SNL standards.", "standards? what standards?\n\nthis show hit the jackpot with youtube. you wake up click the monologue....suck...skip...first sketch...ok i watch the second....suck....skip. the host is terrible lets watch weekend update....musical guest SKIIIIIIP. you done in 5 minutes.\n\nthe people that suffered the most are the cast members now without the intro you can come and go in 2 seasons and i will not know your name. best thing is audition for snl do well and not get the part. this show destroy carreers instead of creating them.", "yeah. \n\nIt's like they get ideas, like in this case \"What if there was a really tiny Elvis who is impressed by big things but doesn't want to be called cute?\" and then they leave it at that... they just do that.. because they have no idea where to go with it....", "You just destroyed the English language.", "It doesn't need to go anywhere else." ]	5	videos	90s SNL sketch with Nicolas Cage - Tiny Elvis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhaisBTVe0	/r/videos/comments/rq466k/solar_system_treadmill_racing/	[ "Take that aliens, we the best 😎", "Mark as a spoiler I thought Saturn had it in the bag.", "Go Earth go!!\n\nFun to watch being stoned on Reddit.", "Welcome to ERF!", ">!Home team always has the advantage!<", "So scripted" ]	6	videos	Solar System Treadmill Racing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHc2y8Pqr3Q	/r/videos/comments/rq4c6i/wow_ive_never_seen_a_joke_age_so_well/	[ "Huh?", "How so?", "I think OP is getting at the fact that many popular cartoons today are clearly influenced by Ren and Stimpy, just seriously toned down for kids.\n\nI could be wrong though.", "Ah! Very clever if so! I thought they were taking a dig at Ren and Stimpy, by saying it wasn't funny (it was funny in a different way) but your read makes much more sense, thanks!", "I love R&S, but it gets pretty raunchy sometimes. Remove the raunch and you have SpongeBob SquarePants." ]	5	videos	Wow, I've never seen a joke age so well
https://youtu.be/f44IQb5Igtc	/r/videos/comments/rq5hfq/zinedine_zidane/	[ "That fuckin spin move is deadly", "Daaaaaaaaaaam", "Is the headbutt in there? Cause that was his #1 move", "2:31 nice", "Seems like a bit of a ball hog\n\nEdit: Jaaaaaa-mieee Tartt doot doot do-doo do-doot Jamie Tartt", "Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha!", "funny that the headbutt made him more famous than any world cup win could. no way an american like me who is ignorant about football would know with absolute certainty who this dude is without it.", "you fuck one goat...", "[ Jump to 02:31 @ No One Has Matched Zidane's Elegance So Far](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f44IQb5Igtc&t=0h2m31s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: mr bundesteam, Video Length: [10:25])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@02:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f44IQb5Igtc&t=0h2m26s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "nice", "We needed that Champions league final goal. You know the one.", "Yeah, it was a big meme in late-2000s internet", "Beating a player is very important in football. It opens up the game and give you more attacking options.", "https://i.imgur.com/R73Amtl.gifv", "It doesn't matter how many times you win an award, it is always very special. Share this Quote \n\" Zinedine Zidane \"", "Exactly, I kept waiting for it...", "I loved that Zidane played like a kid but looked like your dad.", "I remember after the WC someone made a flash game where you played as Zidane and head-butted oncoming Italian players.\n\nFor the first three minutes that you played it was the best game in the world.", "British singer Sophie Ellis-Bextor was found dead in his Paris apartment. Police say it was murder on Zidane's floor.", "His performance against Brazil at the 06 World Cup is still one of the best single games I’ve ever seen anyone have. On a field full of stars and legends who will be talked about for decades he still completely controlled and dictated the whole game.", "Messi still better. I wish ZZ were the best ever, cuz he's one of my all time favorites", "Y'know, I've maintained that ball control is perhaps the most important skill a footballer can have, and it's something that can and should be worked on in training. Yet there's so many players out there with such ridiculously bad ball control it frankly makes you wonder how they ever became footballers", "watching his concentrated ball control like a chess move thought two touches in advance is super humbling (as a soccer player myself)", "Zizou ! Best player ever to me, great control, very good passer, great finisher, good at free kick as well.", "This is strangely how I feel too.\n\nLike, there shouldn't be anyone better than Zidane; it shouldn't be possible. But Messi exists and that's that. I love Messi too though.", "I love it, it’s like he’s doing a magic trick.", "I don't understand what's so cool about that. Just a bunch of guys in shorts running around kicking a ball.", "What's he's doing is incredibly high level and difficult to do against other players at high level. He makes it look easy. \n\nIf you don't like sports, fine. But don't pretend it's some niche activity that you just don't get, when literally hundreds of thousands of people flock to watch this game weekly.", "After some guy called Rolando scores a bicycle kick in the champions League final? \n\nNow that's a highlight reel!", "[Compared to Romario](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-45m_DJJ_UY), everything Zinedine Zidane ever did seemed needlessly tiring and inefficient.", "Of all sports I could actually get behind soccer but christ it's absolutely plagued and completely ruined by diving. That it could be stamped out so easily and it remains in the game makes me genuinely angry enough to not be able to watch it.", "Probably because it’s just not true. Positioning and athletic ability are more important because they can affect the game even when you don’t have the ball. There’s some base level of ball control needed, but the marginal value is lower for many positions.", "Yeah come on dude. The game is more fun if everyone gets to have a turn.", "Excellent point. Present day, you can (and it's generally favored) offset your lack of individual ability by maintaining your athletic ability and positioning sense. So let me amend my statement: Ball control is perhaps the most important piece of *individual* skill a footballer can have.\n\n Off the ball, you're 100% correct, but I still believe that ability to make your 1st touch work to your advantage regardless of the condition is what separates the great players from the rest.", "No, This is after Bale's goal in the CL final.", "The best part of this clip is he plays through so many tackles a modern player would have dived for a free kick.", "Perhaps bc of my age ( Born after Pele and Cruijff) , but imo the GOAT.", "Hahaha, that's a perfect description.", "You're watching a highlight reel. \n\nIn reality Zidane was known as an excellent playmaker. If he had an RTS perk it would be that captain-class character that raised the stats of every other ally just by being there.", "AHH your right, Rolando's was against Juventus", "How can you like a god tier player like Romario while obviously having not the slightest idea of how valuable Zidanes movements were for the whole team. His signature turn pretty much only came in situations where the whole pitch was moving towards him because everybody would expect a back pass or a defensive move/clearance by him, a classic pressing opportunity. And then, there you are. Maybe it's only a step or two but as a defender, you are jogging forward and this guy is coming at your team with plenty of space and you are quite literally caught on the wrong foot.", "This performance will forever be a defining moment in World Football. A single player dominating a legendary line up in a match that could not have been more important, watched by the whole world, effortlessly, efficient, beautiful.", "Outstanding. He seemed to understand something about moving the ball that other haven't.", "Wanker.", "> Wanker.\n\nHi! Nice to meet you. I'm Gregg", "I was forced into participating in soccer games at school and never got it. But I got really good at pretending to play and give a fuck!", "lol these clickbait titles on Youtube. like Barcelona players didn't exist post Zidane", "Always loved good dribblers.", "[For the curious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eSTYsMhOk8)", "https://vimeo.com/360310513", "Hot take? Berbatov had moments where he was better than Zizzou, but Zidane was more consistent.", "When was the last time you watched a game? VAR has cut it down significantly.", "he was a legend", "High entry skill level just to play soccer. Comparing to other sports which you could seemingly better at even if you never played them. Like american football or basketball. Throwing and running is a lot more natural than kicking something precisely and running through people at the same time.\n\nSo in the sport that is high entry level and that has so many players competing to be on the highest stage this guy was the best at one point. Someone that good at any skill is impressive", "Wondered why the headbutt was important/talked about.\n\nDidn't understand the bald guy was some sort of bad ass.", "This was such a good video! Thanks!", "He's up there with Pele, Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo. \n\nIt's amazing watching these clips back and thinking that those 4 player are (justifiably) ahead of him. But he was another level of player at his height.", "Diving existed then too and long before. \n\nZidane wasn't immune to taking a dive here and there if he thought he'd gain an advantage. Football is a game of margins and moments, while I don't condone diving there needs to be an understanding as to why it happens rather than just calling all footballers pussies. (some are).", "The thing about Zidane was that he wasn't only a very technical player, but a highly efficient one. Most often these highly technical players can dribble the opponent but without much net result. There haven't been many in the past years that have combined a high combination of raw technical skill (without power and speed) with a high troughput. But when it happens... boy is it a joy to watch. \n\nOthers I might include in that list: Bergkamp, Ronaldinho, Totti, Kaka, ...\n\nI'll always prefer these players over the high pace strikers/wingers ...", "If you take stats out of the equation, yeah I agree. On par with Maradona and slightly beneath Messi.\n\nBut you can't ignore stats sometimes. Goals, assists etc will always make people's minds up in the history books.", "Moments do not a legend make. \n\nBerba is a legend for different reasons though.", "If you don't sell it, the ref doesn't call it.\n\nYou will cost your team the game if an opponent leg sweeps you in the penalty box and you don't go down even though his intervention hinders your perfect control of the ball and prevents you from scoring.\n\nIt's about as simple as that.", "Pretty sure it requires a LOT more skills than any sport you do find cool.", "[Am I a joke to you ?](https://assets-fr.imgfoot.com/media/cache/1200x1200/rolando-om.jpg)", "Spacial awareness, reaction speed, physical agility — yes in order to behave so ridiculously on a football pitch you will need all three of these on top of the audacity and confidence to even try. \n\nBut to do it so consistently at the elite level? My god this man was something else.", "I don't exactly find any sports cool all of them are boring as fuck, maybe except skateboarding which is actually fun to look at and is much more dangerous than running around like an overpaid idiot.", "So forced...", "To be fair though, as you say you're speaking as an American. For anyone following football/soccer from the mid 90s to 2010, Zidane is more famous for his play than that infamous headbutt at the end of his playing career. Football players are rascals anyway, most of the big players do something outrageous on the field at some point. Only casuals know Zidane just for that headbutt. And since then he's become a successful manager too.", "best headbutts in the game", "yeah, again, to an ignorant american like me. i specified that as i realize it wouldn't apply to people who are into football or who are from europe.", "This is precisely why Ronaldinho is my favorite player of all time. Well, that and his awesome humble personality... I love Messi so much too but yea he's not the most technical. More of a shorty powerhouse", "I think if someone edited this compilation to add the head butt at the end, it could be funny, is my guess. I kind of expected it towards the end.", "Shhh back to handegg buddy", "People downvoting you for speaking the truth is sad. This compilation shows the best of him in reality he was crazy inconsistent at times but when on form a joy to watch [he also had a mean streak when things didn't go his way](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrXB-hWit3c)" ]	76	videos	Zinedine Zidane
https://youtu.be/9sI7WveN7vk	/r/videos/comments/rq5k0h/keeping_a_grocery_store_lobster_as_a_pet/	[ "My man!", "Great video!", "I'm glad I'm not the only one to have this randomly pop up on my feed.", "I used to keep crayfish in our tank as a kid. They’d inevitably escape and end up dried out behind the couch.", "I wonder what happens if you search for \"lobster\" on /r/videos...\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/Phh20B0.png", "My local store has live lobster, I'm tempted do do this, but my tank is fresh water right now. And salt water seems like higher maintenance.", "This video has been recommended to everyone on youtube lol", "It’ll be alright" ]	7	videos	Keeping a grocery store lobster as a pet
https://youtu.be/SxyamtWFRls	/r/videos/comments/rq5qvd/karl_pilkington_comes_up_with_the_metaverse_2011/	[ "Karl's head is so round that logic can go the wrong direction and come back true.", "Google glasses existed in 2011 and the concept of augmented reality existed well before that.", "Head like a fuckin orange.", "This was animated in 2011, but the audio was recorded in 2009.", "Yeah but the concept existed way before that. I remember reading a book called [Rainbows End](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102439.Rainbows_End) that was all about this, and published in 2007. I'm sure that wasn't the first time the idea came up, it's just an example I'm familiar with.", "Look back at his predictions and the podcasts as a whole. This man was a prophet. But for real though when I was young I used to listen to him Ricky and Steven and laugh at some of the stupid stuff Karl would say, only to rewatch and be like, wait this guy is onto something realizing stephen and Ricky were being uncharitable af.", "I’ve been saying for years that Karl is a genius! He’s just absolutely bonkers at times.", "The concept is fully described in and name of Metaverse come from a ~~1994~~ 1992 novel called \"Snow Crash\".\n\nThere were probably earlier examples of this idea but the fact that Zuck used the same name as used in the '92 novel clearly draws a direct line between the novel and Meta the company/idea.\n\nhttps://www.axios.com/metaverse-creator-neal-stephenson-facebook-name-change-a4259282-5016-4c67-a7ae-b0eb381a7773.html", "Im re listening to the ricky Gervais show, and some (a very little percentage) of karl's ideas are surprisingly being realised in the world now, its baffling how ricky and Stephen called his ideas stupid but now we are seem to be living in them.", "Aye, like Sputnik!", "Karl was often on the right track for things, but often oversimplified. A lot of the ideas he had that he got dogged on were things he lacked specific knowledge on but had an uninformed wisdom. I think it was just funny how he presented them and his steadfastness to them.", "Yeah, I was actually geting more and more annoyed by Ricky's dismissive attitude.", "Just watched the trailer for the Metaverse and I have to say, Mark Zuckerberg is distractingly unlikeable. I couldn't even focus on the video for how annoyed his existence made me for one hour and seventeen minutes.", "Agreed, I always felt Karl made some excellent points while the other two used him as an entertainment goldmine to put up on a pedestal and mock like the village idiot. It felt like they never took anything he said seriously and it made them look a bit out of touch.", "AR was a thing waaaaay before this smooth headed moron put the thoughts to words. What's actually funny is Ricky and Steven completely discounting something that had existed in fiction for decades and reality for years at that point.", "OK. Which is strange because Karl's balls are hairy, but he is bald on his head. His head looks like a ball. His head looks like a bald testicle. Karl has a head like a bald testicle. But his testicles aren't bald. OK. How long will it take to wax my balls?", "Yep and metaverse is literally named after the AR/VR in book from 1992 which was itself strongly influenced be another book from 1984 which also heavily featured AR/VR.", "How does it work? Just pop it on your wrist.", "PLAY A RECORD!", "Sometimes. A lot of what he said really was ridiculous and poorly thought out. The times his ideas did have some element of truth or brilliance to it, it usually wasn't in quite the same way he was thinking or intended.\n\nHaving said that, Ricky/Stephen being the schoolyard bullies 24/7 and often starting to ridicule/dismiss before he even finished the point got kinda annoying.", "Has its own weather system!", "Lol Neal Stephenson has been on the cutting edge of shit 20 years into the future for nearly 40 years", "I remember listening to the podcasts at the time and being frustrated with Ricky's reaction to this bit because I had recently read an article talking about this kind of tech, I believe it was called \"augmented reality\" at the time.", "[https://mkari.de/pubs/ismar2021-transformr-compilation.v0.3.512x288.mp4](https://mkari.de/pubs/ismar2021-transformr-compilation.v0.3.512x288.mp4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsxdGwRvvEU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsxdGwRvvEU) \\- here's an early demo of something like that, can eventually be on a platform similar to the vive flow glasses.", "I fucking hate ricky gervais", "I'll look forward to the Five Guys CEO attempting to save us from climate change during Covid-27. (I'm not done with the book)", "Putting on glasses that completely change the reality you are in?", "Karl was in on the joke. He hosted a travel show called \"An Idiot Abroad\".", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PADbSGsC_Pw", "You should watch the XFM series if you haven't. Karl swings back in those and absolutely [hammers Stephen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTqYaHoPqeY&t=1854s). He less often will swing on Ricky, but he's much more spirited.", "Karl is what you get when you max out your character's Wisdom stat but don't spec anything into Intelligence.", "Sometimes he actually absolutely did have good points, other times he was just regurgitating stuff that we've been saying or dreaming about for years, but worded in a way that comes off nonsensical", "That’s not the meta verse. \n\nAll he described was AR. AR and VR were nothing new in 2011. There just wasn’t any consumer applications of those products at the time.", "I think the biggest problem Karl had was having the vocabulary to be able to properly articulate some of his more complex ideas.", "> I always felt Karl made some excellent points\n\n\"How would I know which one was me?\"\n\n\"I could eat a knob at night\"\n\n\"Turns out... little monkey fella...\"", "Listened to one where he was talking about how they sent monkeys to space. Gervais and Merchant were taking the pics and I was like \"but he's right!\"", "I fail to remember how that show at all supports your claim.", "The only false thing he said is that it could be done \"easily\".", "Dude he was saying the monkeys were flying the rocket. Not that we sent monkeys to space to see how zero g affects mammals similar to humans....", "I thought they had let an exotic bird into the studio, turns out it was just Ricky laughing.", "I must have misremembered. Carry on.", "I wouldn't take that too seriously, considering he came back for two more seasons, then did a spinoff called \"The Moaning of Life.\"", "https://youtu.be/kOBj1syjifM", "\"Benny thumped a monkey\"", "I’d love to see a whole series of Karl’s reactions to modern things.\nNFTs: “It’s just a bunch of little monkey fellas, innit?”", "These type of predictions always minds me of Ali G coming up with [the idea of a \"better\" Playstation](https://youtu.be/PDu9CvbrnlM?t=1m26s) and then accusing Sony of stealing his idea when they released the PS2.", "So only 19 years after Neal Stephenson came up with it (including the name FFS!) in Snow Crash?", "What he is talking about is Augmented Reality, not the metaverse.", "You're a maniac.", "Season 3 with Warwick Dawis is really really funny. Pilkington really has zero filter.", "\"Have you got knees?\"", "They laughed at him because they thought he was a mad man. Look at him now...", "I mean, in 2011 augmented reality was a thing already. He probably saw some demos in the news.", "That's the source of the comedy though. \n\nYou got the two straight men, and then Karl being absurd.", "There's one episode where Karl is proved right and loses it, laughing hysterically at Ricky. \n\nThe XFM shows are so so much better than the podcasts.", "Yeah this is what I was thinking. He is talking about Augmented Reality which is in kids games and such now and has limited use. Buy the idea or something like it has been a think in cyberpunk or future settings like Ghost in the Shell for quite some time.", "It's a bit of a cry wolf situation I think. He makes such a large number of illogical points that Ricky and Stephen are just poised ready to ridicule him, and sometimes they might miss a gem in the rough.", "Ricky was such a fool in shooting that kind of thing down. One of the maddest things you've ever said? All the guy fucking proposed was a digital overlay. It's not that crazy. Ricky did that a lot with Karl. Karl would say something pretty ordinary, or sometimes insightful, and then Ricky would bully the guy mercilessly and call him pathetic and stupid.", "It was mostly Ricky. Bullying Karl over nothing was Ricky's winning formula.", "> \"I could eat a knob at night\"\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGxGgsGVbOs", "karl also predicted the plot points of several black mirror episodes", "he misunderstood/mis-describes one of the experiments they did did in fact do on the monkeys in space (having them press buttons to get a treat)", "Not really, metaverse / virtual worls have been thought of and discussed multiple times before Karl Pilkington. There are multiple movies even based on that.", "Always felt like he is a deep thinker but doesn't have the vocabulary or eloquence to explain his thoughts. So it comes out really wrong even though what he say isn't really stupid, it's just the way he words it that is.", "That augment the reality. Augmented reality exists. See pokemon go and google glass.", "I always just thought it was kind of a bit they do. We all have that friend that we rag on a bit cause they take it well.", "The Metaverse as a concept has been around since the early 80s, and the name itself is from Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash which came out in 1992.", "Exactly. “How would I know which one is me” is often pointed out as brilliant, but it’s worded in a way that suggests he doesn’t understand basic shit like lived experience and theory of mind.", "Karl was making excellent points but lacked the ability to explain them fully. Ricky was often ignorant, dismissive and frankly stupid as he couldn’t quite understand what Karl meant.", "How would I know which one was me is actually genius though", "I had this idea way before that too. Also with the tracking \"filter\" effects for mobile phone cameras. It's just bout which company actually publishes it and runs with it. Almost bought bitcoin as well. Hindsight is always 20/20.", "Second life has been out for years which is a literal meta verse", "Or maybe if you are looking at Karl Pilkington for actual insight into anything, you maybe aren't as smart as you think you are?", "Low INT, high WIS", "And the \"joke\" is him talking while Gervais and Merchant shit on him and insult him every time he opens his mouth?", "Or maybe Karl had to go along with it because Ricky is an established guy and will get his way no matter what... either that or he enjoys being called an idiot and having millions of people around the world think that he's dumb.", ">stephen and Ricky were being uncharitable af.\n\nThat's one way of putting it. Others might say they're straight up bullying him,", "Actually Stephen and Ricky made it completely unwatchable for me.", "Of course, Snow Crash! I feel like an idiot now for forgetting about that one.", "Indeed, the whole dynamic reminds me of an argument I had with the town bully as a teen where he threatened to beat me up for claiming that the sun is a star. Just an ignorant, stupid, closed minded bully shitting on his supposed \"friend\" for having the audacity of talking about something he can't understand.", "Ricky became famous in the office for playing the role of a dumb, closed minded, insensitive prick. Turns out he wasn't playing a character after all.", "Not sure you can force someone to do a show. I guess the lure of money might make it hard to refuse but a lot of people in this thread seem to be assuming Karl has no free will or ability to see what's going on around him, that's rather dismissive and insulting to Karl, ironically which is the same thing a lot of those people are taking issue with Ricky and Stephen for doing.\n\nIt's maybe just possible that Karl understood what aspects of his personality people enjoyed seeing and leaned into it on purpose.", "I just bought his his new one. I forget about him for a bit then two years later I'm in a book store and he has a new 1200 page book on sale. Suck it Patrick Rothfuss", "He's right - Though technically this is called the [real world metaverse](https://nianticlabs.com/blog/real-world-metaverse/)", "His ideas were often sound, but he lacked the ability to properly articulate them, even when they gave him some rope to work with", "No way, I remember that! He did!!\n\nThe orange predicted the future.", "This exactly", "Agreed, he's a complety unfunny and nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is.", "Pilko pants are next mark my stupid words.", "More specifically, he's talking about augmented reality. Metaverse includes a host of other discussed here.", "He doesn't care", "If you thump a monkey, people go \"You thumped a monkey?\"", "\"It's like dragging a Henry The Hoover around with me.\"", "I just assumed most of Karls famous bits where scripted and written by Gervais and Merchant.", "And Microsoft released exactly this like 4 years later.", "He really is my favorite poet", "He was playing a part, it was a bit of fun.\n\nChrist people take entertainment to seriously", "Clearly bantering and joking with eachother?", "Playing a part? Karl is very much himself in these videos. He didn't attend school too much when he was younger either which is why he can't explain concepts to a detailed degree. No one is saying it isn't a bit of fun.", "Yes but he plays up to the part obviously. .", "Not really. The Ricky gervais show are a bit more scripted as the topics they talk about are pre determined. The original xfm shows aren't scripted at all and are a bit dis organised and Karl acts pretty much the same. One of the reasons Karl went off to do his own things was because he was fed up of getting it in the neck from Ricky all the time.", "spherical but quite pointy at parts", "Fair enough. \n\nI think they're the instigators though. They prod Karl, and get him to say funny stuff. If Karl was on his own he'd probably have just played music all day, and he'd definitely not have been pondering a million monkeys on a million typewriters or whatever Ricky has tasked him with thinking about.", "As usual, Karl had basically heard something that was true, and then made it fantastical in his head. \n\nLots of the mad shit Karl comes up with, is based loosely on a truth of some kind.", "I mean, Karl also suggested inventing a device that can make you age backwards..\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbG8SP_5BUc\n\nEven if that one day becomes a reality in 100 years, it doesn't mean he was onto something does it?", "I think that’s the lighthouse riddle. If you search for ‘Karl Pilkington goes mental’ on YouTube, it should be the top result. His ‘wa-hey hey’ fading out as the music starts always gets me.", "Pilky is a one of kind - curious, quick witted but intellectually lazy and shallow. Occasionally he would hit on something insightful but his nonsense was an order of magnitude more frequent. Whatever he says is from a very unique perspective. And hilarious.", "What happened to him and Ricky? Will they ever talk to each other again?", ">His ‘wa-hey hey’ fading out as the music starts always gets me.\n\nThat's the one! \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiNOqHCn55k\n\nHere's the link, haha.", "Epic", "\"See-through skin\" \n\n\"One Big Slipper\" \n\n[Actually, that one is real](https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2017_06/6a00d8341c5dea53ef010536eea7db970c.jpg.48aaa6f86fd77526ef7e7b75076f0dc4.jpg)", "He definitely played up to the part a bit more once the travelling shows began. He's also never once stated that Ricky was the reason why he went off on his own.", "That was the point of the comedy bit. That they were both straight manning everything Karl said. Sure they could've gone \"that's actually a good idea\" once in a while but that's not entertainment.", "That was the whole point of the show though. If you didn't have the 2 ridiculing Karl, it wouldn't have worked at all", "Built by a blasian samurai and not a lizard man. As it should be", "> that's rather dismissive and insulting to Karl, ironically which is the same thing a lot of those people are taking issue with Ricky and Stephen for doing.\n\n[I don't understand how they can run around with a nincompoop as Karl Pilkington.](https://youtu.be/aVn_2gSH6hE?t=941)", "Google Glass was a known product in 2011 lmao. They only unveiled it in 2012 but the rumours were around for years beforehand.", ">I always felt Karl made some excellent points\n\nWell, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. When you make a lot of points some of them are going to be good by pure chance. Also even his good points were almost always presented and worded in the dumbest way possible.\n\nI do agree that it was extremely annoying to hear the other two immediately laughing without even trying to understand what Karl was trying to say. He'd bring up interesting problems to discuss, but they'd just laugh at him without understanding the problems either.", "Don't read much into it, it's British" ]	127	videos	Karl Pilkington comes up with the metaverse (2011)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qE2t5PKBtw	/r/videos/comments/rq5vwj/afghan_stations_first_concert_under_the_iea/	[ "This is the largest Afghan news station, which recently broadcast its first music concert under Taliban rule. Surprisingly, it shows a variety of artists and musicians, as well as women with their face uncovered.", "Is this guy reading some kind of poetry or just having a stroke?\n\nhttps://youtu.be/1qE2t5PKBtw?t=2259", "Why not both?" ]	3	videos	Afghan Station's First Concert Under the IEA
https://youtu.be/UV-wh0tW34c	/r/videos/comments/rq6l0l/180_skid/	[ "Holy shit! Impressive.", "I can do one of those in my pants.", "I tried this for months when I was really into fixed gear bikes and never perfected it. Doing the 180 isn’t so hard, but riding away backwards is a lot more difficult than it looks.", "Pretty sick", "I want to see someone do the Akira skid stop in real life.", "I'm like 90% sure that this will be included in the next video of \"[Daily Dose Of Internet](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdC0An4ZPNr_YiFiYoVbwaw)\"", "360° Skid", "What you hope you'll be doing when you get a fixie.\n\nWhat happens in reality: knees didn't like that.", "Only if you run a stupid gear ratio because 60 t chainrings look good.", "yo is that singapore", "what is this", "[MACAFRAMA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n08vzybTwSk)\n\n[M.A.S.H.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTEWIiFPDN4)\n\netc", "Check it out here: \n\nhttps://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/03/the-akira-motorcycle-skid-a-celebration/", "\"This guy did a really interesting bike move.\"" ]	15	videos	180° Skid
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rq7evd/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rq7evd/deleted_by_user/	[ "Sounds about right.", "DOOOOOG SHIIIIT MOOOOOOOVIE", "I think the series had more appeal when the internet was still somewhat of a nebulous concept. Now it just seems silly. Also the whole movie was just replaying what were once original and amazing CGI scenes. But now are meh." ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/3msODEJbLnw	/r/videos/comments/rq8xp5/robot_plant_playing_piano/	[ "original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JdFRMnTqzU", "The actual [author ](https://youtu.be/ZWHPYsRn_uY) of the song.", "Awesome! Thanx!" ]	3	videos	Robot plant playing piano
https://youtu.be/iaSvhYyiUEo	/r/videos/comments/rq95yt/please_let_this_be_a_normal_field_trip/	[ "Oh oh, better fasten your seatbelts, little dudes.", "Damnit Ms. Frizzle", "With the Friz?\n\nNO WAY!" ]	3	videos	Please let this be a normal field trip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2HVhNmrEqI&ab_channel=TLtv	/r/videos/comments/rqat28/swarm_of_locusts_south_africa_2021/	[ "This could have been really cool, except for the lack of rogue grasshopper audio. That's one brave Afrikaaner!", "I hear Grasshopper meat is a great source of protein, sustainable, and you can eat them cold, warm and fried! \n\nBefore they eat all your plants, you eat them all..", "Giant vacuum cleaner", "It's 2021. How are people still filming in 360p?", "Is this for real?" ]	5	videos	Swarm Of Locusts South Africa 2021
https://youtu.be/jPt-UVYQqck	/r/videos/comments/rqbhy3/when_you_dont_have_enough_ram_to_play_minecraft/	[ "I guess you never heard of cracked minecraft", "Is this Beluga's ([https://www.youtube.com/c/Beluga1](https://www.youtube.com/c/Beluga1)) second account? \\^\\_\\^", "Nah mate, it was inspired by beluga tho" ]	3	videos	When you don't have enough ram to play minecraft
https://youtube.com/watch?v=U3MqONAYz8E&feature=share	/r/videos/comments/rqbtmq/gene_wilder_on_his_first_only_argument_with_mel/	[ "Look at that young pompadour, in its prime.", "I kind of wish Conan would shut up.", "'Youre very good at what you do' Aw man from one pro to another. I bet that meant a lot to Conan. Could you imagine an idol of yours telling you something like that? Prob make me tear up", "He remarried in 1991 and stayed married until his death in 2016.", "Oh man, I didn’t know he died! I didn’t believe you, so I looked it up. What awful news.", "I've heard from other people that work together that if they can't come to a conclusion, they will go with who feels more passionately about it. This is essentially what he talks about here.", "It's a segment on late-night, it's not a long form interview. Gene understands that Conan has a job to do. \n\nConan has to establish who Gene is with the audience by talking about a role he was most well-known for, then one of his favorite films, then they must finish by promoting the book Gene wrote. All of this in under 10 minutes. \n\nWhen Gene said, \"you are very good at what you do\", he meant it. He meant it before the interview and he meant it after the interview when he placed his hand on Conan's.", "Conan is a master of his craft and talks far less than other talk show hosts. You see on this clip he gets the ball rolling with Willy Wonka, jumps up with short funny interjections on the subject and then reads the cars for the next question when he feels the guest was done with that topic. Then ends giving a genuine praise to an idol of his. A great interview that isn't just some host spouting back his favorite lines from the movie or talking to much about themselves or something. He lets Gene talk and that is because Conan cares what he has to say.", "I recommend this short video about Gene and his acting. You can really see how he goes about his acting especially in Mel's movies and with Richard.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/ne6y0QpYD78", "I'm so glad that Gene was happy.. Thanks for all the laughs, rest easy.", "His final late night interview...legend!", "in its* prime", "This is reddit. Independent thought is not allowed. You just don't understand that your opinion is wrong and you are not allowed to not like something that is what it is. \n \n> It's a segment on late-night \n \nSo obviously if you don't like it, you are just too stupid to understand that it's a talk-show, unlike the distinguished intellectuals who have a deep understanding of what talk shows are unlike philistines such as yourself. Anybody who doesn't blindly worship Conan at every turn should be shunned from society altogether.", "I've always found Wilder's strive for intimacy (not romantic or sexual) in his roles is virtually unmatched by any other actor. He really tries to make an emotional and physical relationship with his acting partner that comes across as genuine and gleeful. Not even most buddy comedies come anywhere close to what Wilder could bring to that type of dynamic.", "Damn, that was sad when they’re talking about how Gene and Richard Pryors bond didn’t necessarily translate off screen. When Gene says “I wanted to” 🙁", "It reminds me of when Norm [shook Andy Richter's hand after he tagged a joke.](https://youtu.be/n3LMSflEN54?t=214)", "That's the way it goes sometimes. Reminds me of Malcolm McDowell talking about how he and Kubrick got along really great while filming, and then Kubrick just ghosted him once it was done.", "cant believe ive never seen this. amazing. thank you", "Damn that was a good interview. Nice inside look at one of the comedy greats.", "Man, i wish he'd stuck around long enough to do Conan's podcast. He only got 7 mins.", "Such a kind human being. You can just see it in his eyes and hear it in his voice. Such a loss.", "I didn't realize he passed away in 2016 from alzheimer's disease.", "He's got that even in this interview. He can give you sincerity, empathy, comfort, understanding, darkness, anger, etc. just with his eyes. That imo is why he always can convey more realistic emotion than most, he can say it with his eyes, not needing to use his whole face in a heavy-handed manner.", "that moment at the end starting at 6:50 is so sweet and heartfelt I love it", "I absolutely agree. I feel like he was such a loving soul, I bet he was a great friend.", "[ Jump to 06:50 @ Referenced Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3MqONAYz8E&t=0h6m50s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Team Coco, Video Length: [07:44])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@06:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3MqONAYz8E&t=0h6m45s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "...\"Its\" is the possessive pronoun of \"it.\" \"It's\" is a contraction of \"it is\" or \"it has.\" No shame though since it's not a big deal lol.\n\nedit, lmao he downvoted me and deleted his comment", "Don't forget \"The Producers.\" Zero Mostel and Wilder were terrific.", "His deteriorating health (Alzheimer's disease) was kept hidden from the public at his request, expressly because he was worried that, if word got out, then parents might stop their children from coming up to greet \"Willy Wonka\" for fear of bothering an ailing man, and Gene just couldn't bear the thought of his condition depriving the world of a smile. It sounds like he really was an incredibly warm, kind person.", "[My favorite Wilder scene](https://youtu.be/hYTQ7__NNDI)\n\nHis comedic timing is perfect.", "3 questions and for half of the time, if not more, it was Conan talking. It was barely an interview. When legends like Gene are willing to be interviewed I wish the old interview shows still existed. I like Conan but this was nothing more than a tragic missed opportunity to meet and hear from a legend.", "Penn & Teller have very little off stage contact. They are great business partners but otherwise don't involve themselves in each others' lives. I always thought that was a little sad but they are fine with it.", "I never saw that before. I'm now crying with laughter and I think I peed a little. Not a lot. Just a little.\n\nGod I miss Norm. It's a terrible dad joke that takes 15-20 seconds to tell normally but he could stretch it to 5 minutes. He only made it short for his camera time. He could have rolled that one for an easy 15 without a thought.\n\nIf ever I am lost, send me to Toten Norway. The will do whatever it takes and spend any money they have to send me back home. I am loved there.", "'The decision to wait until this time to disclose his condition wasn't vanity, but more so that the countless young children that would smile or call out to him 'there's Willy Wonka' would not have to be then exposed to an adult referencing illness or trouble and causing delight to travel to worry, disappointment, or confusion. He simply couldn't bear the idea of one less smile in the world.'\n\nI remember reading that and respecting the guy even more than I already did.", "Man, when I read the commenter above you the first thing I thought of was Norm. I finally got to meet him a couple years ago while working at a comedy club in San Francisco and made him laugh so hard he punched me in the shoulder and called me a fucker. Was an equivalent moment for me. Definitely one of my most cherished memories.", "I cried when Gene passed away. He was my favorite comedic actor of all times.", "What was the joke?", "Yeah, this is a great rule for marriage or any long term relationship.", "We spent about 10 minutes chatting after his final set of the weekend. It was right after his last appearance on Letterman where he told Dave he loved him, and afterwards said that was unscripted and he was a little embarrassed. I told him that he spoke for millions of people around the world, and millions of us felt the same way about him. He was my comedy idol since Weekend Update when I was in middle school and it was a beautiful little moment. After a couple more minutes he eventually pulled his cell phone out of his pocket and started reading mid-conversation. If anyone else I would have thought rude. But afterwards he had that devilish grin wash over him, and I can only assume he either shared the following with me out of humble pride or to try to get a rise out of me. But he leaned in towards me and said “I just got a text message from Jer-ree Seinfeld!” I don’t usually come through in the clutch. But I paused a beat, shrugged, and flatly responded..\n\n“Never heard of her.”", "Nice.", "that's really great! what a beautiful memory", "That kind of professionalism is probably why they are still performing after all these years.", "He literally rolled Norm over. Fantastic stuff. Those three really love and respect each other. So glad you pointed that moment out.", "You just told a 'Norm' joke. Fantastic.", "So true.", "Gene Simmons and Paul Stanely are not the best of pals either. Interesting subject you bring up.", "They probably spend so much time together in business that they just sort of need their own space to decompress afterwards.\n\nKinda like how some married couples can work together 24/7 just fine, but others need that small time away from each other at work in order to maintain their relationship. \n\nEvery relationship is different; P&T found what works for them.", "A man once gave me the advice,\n\n\"Ask yourself, are you going to care about this issue in a year? If not, it's probably best to not argue about it.\"", "This made my night. Great joke" ]	50	videos	Gene Wilder On His First & Only Argument With Mel Brooks \| Late Night wi...
https://youtu.be/a9kL0W4E7-o	/r/videos/comments/rqc42d/paul_talking_about_yoko/	[ "I mean, she broke up the Beatles", "The consensus is she’s a horrible person.", "Ah, that's what you mean.", "Paul met her, says she's misunderstood and not horrible at all. \n\nYou disagree. \n\nFair enough.", "According to Reddit everyone is a horrible person.", "Pretty sure that was John", "So a person with a public image and brand to maintain took the high road and didn't openly disparage his friends widow? It wasn't exactly a glowing review, it was basically \"yeah we didn't like her but I now realize she's different from my previous views\" Double speak to be kind while saying basically nothing. It's pretty well documented the band didn't really get along with her. They \"accepted her presence as the new norm\" is generally how it was described. They realized they couldn't force John to break up with her so they just tolerated her presence.", "It's so stale to bash Yoko Ono", "Certainly. I think bashing yoko is grating, shouty and repetitive. It lacks any sort of subtlety. In a certain way, though, perhaps you could see it as performative?", "> Paul met her, says she's misunderstood and not horrible at all.\n\nEh... There's quite a gulf between \"misunderstood\" and \"not horrible at all\". People can do better to be better understood. It's called cultural norms and tact. Ignoring those doesn't make you an individual, it makes you a horrible person.", "It's funny, everyone says how much the beatles hated yoko, but i've yet to see one shred of this documentation you mention. To the contrary, I've only heard Paul defending her.", "You've heard Paul masterfully dodging the question and making vague statements like \"It was intrusive at the time but looking back on it he really loved her and you have to respect that\". For years they were in constant back and forth legal disagreements about Royalties that she gets for Lennon's work and her wanting writing credits and shit. Not to mention her callous disregard for Julian Lennon. After they settled out of court he mysteriously has nothing to say about her. Before that it was nothing but vitriol. She lucked into John's wealth after John strong armed Cynthia into a shit divorce settlement leaving Julian out to dry. Imagine being the son of one of the most famous people in history and having to fight his wife who pretends Julian doesn't exist for some inheritance while she lives exuberantly and sell's baby products with John's name on it and stuff.\n\nYeah she's awesome, you're right. I'm sure Paul craft fully avoiding the question every time with extreme vagueness and comments about John's feelings about her has nothing to do with avoiding extended emotionally driven legal battles over music rights with a nutjob.\n\nbut she was into peace and stuff so she must be a good person", "They have said this, theyve talked about how she was a barrier that Lennon sort of placed between him and the rest of the group and how she went to the bathroom with him and stuff.\n\nI get it, she wasn't EVIL and she didn't directly break up the Beatles, that would be Lennon. But pretending she's a good person requires ignoring everything she's done since then.\n\nThere's a reason people don't like her. She's not very likeable. Lennon clung to someone when he was vulnerable and she sunk her claws in to the Beatles entire being. Imagine a conversation about the Beatles that doesn't involve Yoko. She's not some saint just because people have unfairly hated her for years. She still sucks", "I wrote this little piece below to sum up the change in public perspective of Yoko.\n\nAH AH AHA HA AH AH AH AH AH AH AH EEEEEEE EEEEEEEE EEEEEEEE HE HE HE HEHE HAHA HOOOH HHHOOOOOH HO HO OO O O O O O O O OHHHHH OHHHHHH OHHHHH AHHHHHH EEHEHEHE AHHHH OHHHH O HO... O HO.... O HO HO.... HOOOH. HOOOOH. HOOOOH. HUUUUUUUuuuu\n\nI'll take that writing credit now please.", "I mean, _your_ opinion about her is clear. Still not seeing anything from a Beatle disparaging her.", "No it's not. Reddit hates her because they think they're the only one that have seen Bill Burr make fun of her.\n\nAnyone who says she's talentless or a bad person, knows nothing about her, her music, experimental music or how ahead of her time she was.", "Angry... Angry old man", "your*\n\nand \n\nhttps://faroutmagazine.co.uk/did-george-harrison-really-hate-yoko-ono/", "Do you know how horribly she mistreated Lennons son?", "I don't know anything about that but if so what is your point? People are flawed. Yoko is no worse than Lennon (Lennon is actually probably worse) yet Yoko takes all the heat. Even after the get back documentary came out and it showed that the other Beatles had no problem with Yoko people still feel the need to bash her. The Beatles broke up 50 years ago get over it.", "This 'article' (which is a bunch of supposition regarding the interview on the Dick Caveat show), makes my point really. George called her a bitch because she ate one of his cookies, and had less than warm words to her once, and made a little joke on the show about not sitting in the chair yoko sat in...It's all just groping for 'ooh ooh, they all HATED her. SHE broke up the beatles!'\n\n>when he sat down with Dick Cavett on his show in 1971, Harrison ultimately revealed that he didn’t necessarily hate her, and that, similarly to what McCartney had stated before, he didn’t believe Ono broke the band up.", "And George, although that was due to John and Paul ignoring his contributions.", "Do you know how horribly John Lennon treated John Lennon's son?", "https://www.theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998", "Interesting point, I hadn't considered that about Yoko's involvement in the Beatles. Maybe I should reconsider my position in light of this new and relevant information.", "I saw that beatles documentary that just came out on HBO I think. There was a jam session where they were sitting writing music, coming up with what would be some of their classic. It was the four members AND yoko ono sitting in a circle. She was not contributing anything, just sitting there as if she was entitled to sit in on anything the band did because she was with John. I can understand how that would be fucking annoying.", "That was very big of Paul.", "If you think being disliked for not following social mores means you're a horrible person, I think Kohlbergs Theory of Moral Development may be of some interest (read: you'll dismiss it without consideration). Until then, I'd love to know which circle of hell you think Rosa Parks went to for not moving to the back of the bus.\n\nI live in Minnesota, which is so famously passive aggressive, the MMPI -- a staple pyschological battery of the industry -- had to be revised because the original was normed using rural Minnesotans, which caused everyone else to look a bit nutty. So when I had Russian immigrants coming into my retail job as customers, I thought they were incredibly rude until it occurred to me that they just hated all the same customer service bullshit I did. From there, they became a breath of fresh air to me. I can't speak to who Yoko is, but I can speak to the fact that sometimes the problem is not other people, but our own perspectives.", "Paul is an incredibly caring and thoughtful person. For him to even think, \"hey maybe its my fault?\" Most people wouldn't do that.\n\nBecause he's so caring, he sees the relationship through that lens of his friend's marriage and the fact that none of the famous people were mistreated. That, unfortunately, is not the whole picture.\n\nBut we have the power of hindsight to write the best record we can with as much information as we have.", "Ah, so you were asking in bad faith. \n\nThat's cool, you do you.", "Finding miserable comments like this is always so interesting to me.", "You're going too far the other way. You're blinded by the bad things they did. Your comment just comes off as miserable. Take the first sentence. Obviously not only teenaged girls liked the Beatles. You just want to rain on everyone's parade.", "To be fair that was probably more John's doing. He was a wife abusing child abandoning mama's boy and Yoko was his wacked out comfort blankie.", "_You_ do you.", "Hey there, cheer up. Someday you might not be such a cantankerous piece of shit.", "yawn", "Yeah, basically all of the Yoko hate is predicated on Lennon having no agency which is pretty fucking silly.", "Even if she were talentless and one hates her music, like... don't listen. The stuff she was included in was because Lennon wanted her included.", "How did she break up the Beatles?", "Sorry, I was listening to R Kelly a bit loud. What did you say?", "They are celebrated because their music is revered by millions. Not just old men. And even if it was just old men so what? Even non-fans usually still respect their music and talent. You just want people to hate them as much as you because you are miserable.", "Which part? It is fact that the music of the Beatles is revered by millions. There is a reason we are still talking about them now.", "He's a troll. Super active in COD and politics.... You know the type", "Do you really think the Beatles are popular just because they are pushed by a large corporation? You can't really believe that. Hate the Beatles all you want but at least live in reality.", "Yikes", "As soon as Paul realized he now needs to deal with Yoko over publishing rights and royalties, he coincidently also decided she is not a bitch. Wow. So obvious", "never said John didn’t want here there, would make zero sense if literally no one wanted her there she’d be trespassing lol it’s just a classic case of one of the bros falling for an overbearing gf, hardly a unique story" ]	47	videos	Paul talking about Yoko
https://youtu.be/tUX4OMkSRpI	/r/videos/comments/rqc6bq/chrome_sparks_marijuana/	[ "This is a classic. Such a good song. And a great interpretation of what it’s like to get high!", "Wow this is a throwback I used to listen to this all the time and completely forgot about it. Thanks, I can return the favour because this sparked my memory of [the amazing piano interpretation of the song by Haywyre](https://youtu.be/9MQt0zWkXyE)", "The best of Future Bass.", "What? In what world this represents getting high? High on what? Weed as the title implies?", "You seem a bit high, lol. Peace homie", "I am, thats why I'm asking", "Celery", "Good but it can't beat Send The Pain On https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OomM-lOHkSw", "luv me some chrome sparks", "Was lucky enough to see Chrome Sparks open for Flume at Red Rocks some years ago, one of my favorite shows to date", "Thanks for this. I loved it.", "Wow haven't heard this in forever", "Disagree hard. Send The Pain On is an incredible track but Marijuana slaps harder.\n\nGranted this all boils down to personal preference.", "I listened to this so much, and scoured every record store I could to get the vinyl. I would religiously check the merch store, and got super lucky when they repressed it. Chrome Sparks is so dope.", "Chrome Sparks just pitched down a sample of Idris Muhammad – Could Heaven Ever Be Like This. So the above interpretation is of that. Credit where credit is due.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0skigTyA4NE", "Here is where Chrome Sparks got their sample from - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0skigTyA4NE" ]	18	videos	Chrome Sparks - Marijuana
https://youtu.be/jndnJCGryK0	/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/	[ "Focusing just on what we see with the judge, since I know nothing about the family, this is a WTF. She’s one of those “creative” judges who hands out humiliating sentences and makes obnoxious people clap. No matter what was going on with the kids and the parents her behavior and judgement were out of line and hopefully attracted some oversight towards her other judgements. A judge can order a family go to counseling, she cannot pretend to be a counselor herself then hold children in custody when she gets impatient.", "What a bitch", "Judge suffered no repercussions with all that power she has? Not even the suspension? Went to the Supreme Court and nothing happened? She should never hold power over another person in her life. System is fucked.", "Was the dad okay with this? I mean, yea, (assuming the judge was right) It'd be a horrible feeling to have all three of your kids refuse to interact with you. \n\nBut using the court to threaten them into \"acting like loving kids\"?!?!\n\nAt what point would you just be like \"Your honor, please don't.\"", "How embarrassing for the dad.\n\nIf they had faked it, it’s just a setup for a comedy show about a terrible weekend dad. \n\n“Hey kids, whoooo wants ice cream?!”\n\n“I’ll have the court obligated one scoop only at this time, Thankyou.”", "Absolutely correct. She had the power to mandate psychological assessment of the children by an independent psychologist if she truly believed this to be a case of parental alienation and brainwashing by the mother.", "It sounds like the judge suspected Parental Alienation.", "Oh, but her name was in the news. Isn't that enough punishment for anyone?", "\"I ordered you to have a healthy relationship with your father\"", "Being disbarred is punishment for lawyers.\n\nJail time is also an option.", "There’s not enough beeping and digital sound effects in this video for it to maintain my attention /s", "If I put myself in his position, and assuming the judge's assessment is correct that their mother has turned them against me, I can't blame him. \n\nHe'd be standing there in tremendous pain, imagine having to hear from the people you love most that they don't want you in their life based on lies. Allowing the judge to go so far to coerce the children says to me how desperate he is, feeling cornered because he has no recourse on his own to mend the relationship (can't even begin to happen if the kids won't engage with you at all). He's willing to take help in any form from anyone to alleviate that pain, a pain that would probably drive no shortage of people to depression and potentially suicide.\n\n\nCustody is so fucking messy, I hate it.\n\nEdit: Yes, yes, I get it you're all Peter Parker who would let their loved ones forget about you for their sake. But in this case the mother could also have sacrificed for their benefit, [and didn't](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/).", "Thanks dad for the black eye. Its what I always wanted for Christmas! Yay", "The final line really feels like it's leading to something. \"After 8 years, the case continues.\" The youngest kid is 9 at the beginning, a year from being an adult. Like, why would you put your kids through this? \n\nI feel like the story is leaving out some facts and doesn't paint a whole picture. \n\nThe Supreme Court of Michigan said \"yeah, that was a little too much but you're corrected now.\" I really don't have any more effort to research this. Good bait though.", "so... they don't care, that's the thing it is a power dynamic where they want control. Countless divorce and custody hearings are less about 'I want x because it makes me happy' and more 'I want x to punish them'.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nI'm not sure what the facts are, but chances are county social services did an investigation and made a recommendation that wasn't mentioned here (its pretty much common practice when children are involved in any kind of accusation like that for social services/their counsel to be included)\n\n&#x200B;\n\nBut yeah I agree with the 'examiner' her conduct was wildly inappropriate aimed at ....anyone, but especially young children.", "Daily reminder: Law != Morality. The law never has morality as intent, the intent is to structure society.\n\nAnd, as we've seen, some structures deserve to be fucking demolished.", "But she’s a white. She went through a lot of stress. Isn’t that punishment enough? \n\nIt’s not like she’s black or something for god sakes.", "Yeah, but even then how the fuck do you default to “I must punish the children for their mother’s actions”? It’s so gross, these kids are already the victims of their parents’ falling out and I’m pretty sure sending them to one of those psychotic rehabilitation camps fronting as “juvenile villages” isn’t gonna help them in any way.", "Seriously wtf? When I heard that part it made me question whether the judge was friends with the father. She repeatedly goes on about how the father is a good loving man...how does she know this?\nYou don’t get to force children to love someone.", "Don’t forget to mention the head of her disciplinary board was fired for pursuing this: https://www.courthousenews.com/director-says-he-was-fired-for-cracking-down-on-judge/", "\"The public rebuke was enough punishment\"\n\nWelp. No need for punishment, the fact the public was angry at her is enough. What the actual fudge? They wonder why people have no faith in the \"justice\" system when crap like this essentially goes unpunished.", "It's always fucking Oakland county.", "Kids did not ask to be brought into this world. It is our responsibility as parents and society to care and protect them and act in moral and legal sense. Maybe it is because it is Christmas and I’m extra sensitive but this is sickening. On paper it should be so easy to do the right thing for these kids. I hope they are alright by now.", "Even though the violence claim is unsubstantiated.", "\"I never thought they'd choose jail over being with their dad.\"\n\nDoes that not fucking concern you?? A child just said their dad was violent. It's possible he was coached, but you want to take that chance? What a POS.", "\"Thanks dad for the *alleged* black eye. Its what I always wanted for Christmas! Yay\"", "If those kids didn’t want to speak to their father, guess whose problem that is? It’s the father’s. It’s his job to be a parent that loves and cares for them in such a way that they want to have a relationship with him. You can’t force a child to have a relationship with a parent. That connection is earned. And once it’s lost (for whatever reason), it needs to be earned back. \n\nA question I have is, does the judge have a personal relationship with either parent? Her words and views seemed very personal and lacking objectivity and decency towards the children. She came off more like a bitter step mother than a judge.", "We consider morals when we structure society, these aren’t mutually exclusive things.", "shes banging the father", "I love the insane aside about Charles Manson, I mean if there truly is no relevance. What the fuck is this nitwit talking about? How did she come about holding such power without a lego getting in her fucking way?", "Why are the words in that post title so randomly capitalised?", "I figure that's a big judgement call psychologically that she probably has no expertise or business making.", "This is fucked up. Lisa Gorcyca, you fucking cunt.", "Any societal structure that doesn't consider morality needs to be destroyed.", "and suddenly i completly understand why so many incels think the justice system can force a woman to be in a relationship with them.", "They're not related either tho.", "america is fucking insane.", "I can’t think of a society that doesn’t have at least some moral consideration when structuring itself.", "When I worked security, I was close to someone who had a divorce case like this, and there are LOTS of reports and evaluations done. Mom kept filing DYFS investigation after DYFS investigation, which all resulted in DYFS finding no evidence. Judge ordered court mandated psych evals, which included interviews with the child, all of which found he was not the person she claimed in her dealings with the court. But the Mom was actively poisoning the kids mind and making them do things like ask him questions about the parents relationship while surreptitiously recording them.", "Christ this is sad. A judge oversteps and traumatizes three children for life and the supreme court says \"yea, that's fine\". I have no faith in our judicial system after watching this.\n\nWhat's worse is the supreme court acknowledged her misconduct as a \"mere legal error made in good faith\":\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>\"\\[Lisa Gorcyca\\] committed misconduct when she exercised her contempt power to hold the oldest child in contempt...\" \n> \n>\"Those decisions constituted mere legal errors made in good faith and with due diligence, and the errors could have been remedied on appeal.\"\n\n&#x200B;\n\n6/7 justices agreed to not punish her further:\n\n* Brian K. Zahra\n* Bridget M. McCormack\n* Stephen J. Markman\n* David F. Viviano\n* Joan L. Larsen\n* Kurtis T. Wilder\n\nEdit: If you needed any additional confirmation of collusion/foul play, the judicial watchdog that helped bring this case to the courts was fired: [https://www.courthousenews.com/director-says-he-was-fired-for-cracking-down-on-judge/](https://www.courthousenews.com/director-says-he-was-fired-for-cracking-down-on-judge/)\n\nThe complete supreme court filing/ruling for reference: [https://www.courts.michigan.gov/4a51fd/siteassets/case-documents/uploads/opinions/final/sct/152831\\_22\\_01.pdf](https://www.courts.michigan.gov/4a51fd/siteassets/case-documents/uploads/opinions/final/sct/152831_22_01.pdf)", "Literally any authoritarian society.\n\n\n\nMorals are irrelevant for efficiency", "Yeah cause a judge who does civil litigation with children certainly haven't seen lies and manipulation before.\n\nCase went on for 5 years. \n\n>At one point, the children sat in chairs in the hallway with their arms locked together, refusing to enter the courtroom. \n\nBut no, need to have that Reddit snark for points.", "They need to do this more often. I've met several judges and they are all douchebags.", "Making judgments is kind of in the job description.", "are morals not subjective or does every society hold identical morals?", "That Judge should be placed in jail and her law license revoked. To put those kids into State custody was an egregious violation of her authority and the only reason she didn't receive a harsher punishment is because Judge's won't ever call out or hold other Judges accountable.", "Some people believe kids should have both a mom and a dad in their lives no matter what even if one or both is a piece of shit.", "My belief is that morals are subjective", "I've forgotten her name already", "We should probably define what we mean by morals or what our particular morals are then.\n\nBecause even in the most authoritarian societies murder and theft are illegal, which I would consider laws with moral intent.", "How in the name of fuck is she allowed to be involved in family court?", "Bet she has a terrible family if she has a habit of enforcing relationship rather than building relationship.", "She's comparing parental alienation to the Manson family. The judge has entirely too much control and manipulation in smaller case court. There's no rhyme or reason, mostly you can be at the whims of a stooge like this, which these unlucky people are. What she's reaching at with her implications and easily identifiable petulance and anger is absurd and inappropriate. Otherwise, this wouldn't be a story.", "As a father who has sole custody of his son due to domestic violence, this angers me on a deep deep level", "What a cunt.", "The relationship is incidental though. An act can be illegal and immoral, illegal and moral, legal and immoral, or legal and moral. But people with underdeveloped senses of morality will use the legality of an act as the be all, end all reason for if it is moral or not and it just isn't so. Lawfulness and morality are sometimes in direct opposition.", "unreal - she needs to be fired immediately.", "ikr? Where's the lens flare and unfeasably large explosions?", "Hope the worst for thats shit judge", "To me the most telling part is when she was on the stand and explains how she has never seen children pick jail over spending time with their father.\n\nPerhaps that should have been a clue right there. How bad is the father that these kids are voluntarily picking jail over even having lunch with him?", "CORRUPTION", "How can we trust any sort of system that gives stupid and cruel people such as this with unchecked power?", "Morals typically inform laws, I agree that morals don’t equal laws though.", "I guess just take away her right to buy pumpkin spice lattes.", "This is what happens when you try and have lawyers with law degrees deal with family psychological issues.", "Quota Statistic generator on a Stock Market Basis dulled out as bonuses. She was actually egging them for a skin tan and some new fingernails, Teeth shiner and a luxury car payment.", "parental alienation is a real thing that courts take seriously. it must have been found by school counselor/ court psych/ GALs. obviously the threats are a bad look but more context would probably tell the whole story.", "Judgements based on the law, not a broad scope to judge whatever you want. Just because she's a judge doesn't mean should be a film critic too. That's why they bring actual psychiatrists in to testify.", "There's been a few cases against judges in recent years that shows that the judicial system does need a fucking revision. One judge simply never sat on a case and just kept getting a paycheck. One judge simply bullied and insulted everyone around her. The famous asshole judge threw kids in jail because the jail bribed him. None of them were given a good enough punishment.", ">Otherwise, this wouldn't be a story.\n\nThat's a fallacy. News stories are often distorted, one-sided and sometimes even spun from absolutely nothing.\n\nI'm not going to get angry or emotional over a 10 second clip from a lengthy court battle with zero facts given of the underlying case.", "How much of a scumbaq is this father if the kids would rather go to jail than have lunch with him? That's a huge fucking red flag", "Judge can order whatever they want regarding visitations or whatever, whether that child/teen will listen is another thing.\n\nAll I know is whichever parent is complaining will spend upwards to $10,000 for no reason on this", "Alright, Doctor.", "I don't have kids yet, so maybe I just don't get it, but nah I think at that point I would drop it. At the end of the day, I would think a parent would want to do what is best for the kids. Going to juvie is horribly detrimental to a kids mental well-being. So long as the mom isn't an abusive shithead, I would much rather the kids stay with the mom. And if I were a kid in their situation, and my dad didn't stand up for me in that situation, I would never forgive him and there would be zero hope of ever recovering that relationship. If I saw my dad stand up and say \"you know what? Forget it. Let them live with their mom, I just don't want to see them go to juvie over this.\" That would stick with me, and there's hope for recovery from that. \n\nWhen my parents divorced, the best decision my dad ever made was letting my mom have almost complete custody over us. It gave us the stability we never would have had with him. And because of that, and a real effort on his part now that I am older, we have a great relationship even when there was not much that was salvageable from my childhood. All because he made the decision when I was younger to allow us kids the best chance of happiness. That's what a good parent does.", "The fact that he supported the \"judge\" after her decision in putting his children in jail for not talking to him makes me think there's a good fucking reason the kids don't want to speak to him", "That's family court for you. There's no jury so the judge is the finder of fact and law.", "The problem with the modern justice system is that Judges have the highest level of authority. A high functioning moral society would have juries at the top of the judicial hierarchy. \n\nNo jury of peers is capable of being this cruel, this callous, or this insufferable, by the numbers. If education accounted for this society shift (we taught people to be jurors from a young age) you would create shared accountability and shared values. \n\nThe adversarial judicial system is racked with conflicts of interest and outdated thinking. Think about the idiocy of a state appointed attorney in criminal matters. The State (prosecution) appoints a representative of the state (the public defender) to represent your interests against itself, in a trial that is overseen by the state (A politically appointed or elected Judge).\n\nLook at the disparity in outcomes for private vs public attorneys.\n\nJuries should have the authority over judicial AND civil matters, in an absolute sense.", "Yeah, not going to happen when Dracula is in charge of the blood bank.", "Above someone posted the head of an oversight board getting fired for cracking down on the judge", "Just so we're clear, you're coming out in favor of a court order requiring people to spend time with someone they despise?", "Sheesh", "Right! I mean shit even if a kids lies about abuse how about we take them a bit more at face value so we don't end up with kids being court ordered to spend time with a potential abuser huh?", "I would imagine there was probably a social worker involved in this somewhere.", "Fuck that judge. Her actions were abusive in nature, and had a possibility of furthering abuse.", "Why would she ever want a 9 year old to learn anything about Manson and the horrible murders his sect committed ?", "Yeah that's against the Geneva conventions.\n\nBake him away, toys!", "Moral is the higher authority than law. Laws are largely arbitrary. If you had to pick to live in a society without laws or morals, which would you pick?", "Like, I am in favor of respecting the parental rights of fathers, but this is disgusting, they're children, they're obviously emotionally distressed, they're being used as tools by the parents, do not punish them for their parents broken relationship. How judges are allowed to treat people like this and continue to keep their position of power is just baffling.", "fucking pigs and cunty judges fuck'em all.", "Yet those same societies don't mind legally disappearing people that threaten stability.", "And furthermore they often believe that it's the child's fault if there are any problems in the parent-child relationship and they often believe that all parents love their children unconditionally, which simply isn't true.", "Imagine if that was the way we punished people. \nGuyssss come onnnnnn Ted Bundy was in the pressssss, he's had enough :(", "I don’t like to use this word often but she’s a fucking CUNT", "You monster! People have seen her doing something that she openly and publicly defended the entire time. Obviously she has changed!", "Then she should have ask for a Psychological evaluation. \n\nThe kids told her their father was violent and she didn't even think it could be true. It should have been investigated.", "No, they don't. Just because you are saying it doesn't make it true.", "A child made a claim in open court that an adult was violent near or with them. It was immediately ignored. Even in Texas where we hate women and children (based on our laws) that would get investigated.\n\nEdit: Abortion issue aside, Texas has the lowest maternal mortality rate in the developed world. Our education rates near the bottom of the US, and the US doesn't rank so hot. A lot of Texas policies are hostile to women or children, and the ones that aren't are misogynist.", "Proves she didn't know what the hell she was talking about", "That's what I would assume, but if there was truly to the dramatic notion brainwashing going on, it wasn't reflected well by the court to the kids.", "Pretty straight forward, IMO. If the Judicial System is not going to provide an avenue for justice for the victims. Then the system serves no purpose to those victims. They'll be forced to look towards extrajudicial means to get peace of mind.", "Lol you can't order children to treat a parent one way or another. \nMight as well order the tide to withdraw.", "Just because you say they aren’t doesn’t make it true either.\n\nIf morals don’t inform laws then what does?", "Tell that to my totally real magnum dong", "A morally imperfect society doesn’t equal a society with zero moral considerations.", "I never said otherwise.", "My first thought was, they're banging.", "Bitch looks evil af", "She’s fuckin dad", "What's really bizzare is he ended up with primary custody: [https://patch.com/michigan/bloomfield-mi/kids-who-refused-lunch-dad-now-living-him](https://patch.com/michigan/bloomfield-mi/kids-who-refused-lunch-dad-now-living-him)\n\nI don't have enough knowledge to say if parental alienation therapy is backwards brainwashing or what but this whole story stinks.\n\nEdit: After he had primary custody, then SHE had it again [https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/)", "...Because a man told them god said so.", "Is that even legal? like i guess they were willing to send them to child prison to I guess so, Thats seriously fucked up, a healthy relationship can be nearly anything, even not speaking to each other is 100% a perfect relationship.", "Cha Ching…. Let’s all say it together… wrongful termination.", "> in Texas where we hate women and children (based on our laws) \n\nThat's a pretty stupid claim considering fathers almost never get custody over their children in Texas. Unless you consider getting to raise your own children a punishment or a sign of hatred?", "I dont see the problem \nMy mother was manipulative and tried brainwashing my sister and i.\n\nWouldn’t be surprised if thats what this mother did", "Eh. We only got a very short snippet of what happened. Still never should have happened in the first place. Judge is a mega asshole.", "I am acquaintances with two family judges and when I saw this headline I was like \"please don't be either of the women I know...please don't be either of the women I know...\"", "Judge Karen", "Wow, what a despicable cunt. It was bad with just the context but the tone and nastiness she used when telling the children they would be going to the bathroom in front of strangers unless they love their dad is an abomination. \n\nAll judges should be forced to spend trial periods in the punishments they dictate, similar to how cops need to get tased and pepper sprayed.", "Extremely unsatisfactory. Judge got the suspension overruled, and is back tormenting children forcing them to love parents they don't want to spend time with.", "How is this not a violation of the children's first amendment right to free speech? The government cannot force an individual into speech against their will such as forcing them to talk to a father they don't want to add far as I understand previous case findings.", "Hear, hear!", "Yeah, this is especially bad in court cases. Kids could be screaming and crying to not be sent with a parent because they are abused, but the court still sends them to that parents home. One case that I was a part of was especially bad and it involved a little girl she wanted to stay with her father because of the abuse that she was experiencing from the mother, but the judge ignored the girls pleas because she believed that a child should always have a mother.", "Fair enough.", "Well see then you've got the sticky issue of defining an ethical code that's consistent enough to serve as a foundation for a legal system, and that ain't easy either. So, ultimately, all you really require is a power structure that doesn't beg to be destroyed by the people under it. And that depends massively on the culture in the area.\n\nEDIT: Sorry, conflated morals and ethics. Mea culpa.", "Yea but you dont send the kids to jail and forbid them from seeing any of their parents because of it. There are a thousand other options that dont make psycho parents the kids fault. Full custody to the dad, make them wards of the state, punish the mother for filing false reports (if that is what is going on). etc etc. None of this has anything to do with the innocent kids.", "I think they're probably talking about that whole abortion thing and that whole mask/vaccine mandate thing. Texas is telling people that it can't control people's bodies while simultaneously telling women that they have no control over their bodies", "bro outr judicial system is fucking sick", "In the courts defense we are talking about a grown man voluntarily living in Texas... Who knows what's wrong with him.", "I will be the first to agree that the laws don't dictate right and wrong. \n\nBut it is too categorical to say that laws are not - generally - originating in morality. It is not wrong to say that the general purpose of laws is to prohibit the things we would not like done to ourselves. Or prohibit activities that pose a danger/too much cost to society.\nThe core _intent_ behind laws is morality.\n\nProblem of course being that morals tend to change MUCH faster than laws and that we all have individual morals, while we cannot have individual laws. And it is quite easy to think up scenarios where breaking the law as it is written, is the right thing to do.\n\nSo yeah, laws are not morality. They only dictate what is legal/illegal. Not right or wrong. But they tend to align. \n\nIn this particular case it seems more like a problem with the execution of the law than the law itself, from a moral perspective.", "... except that still requires a judge to rule in your favor. Which, as it should be obvious based on this entire story, is no guarantee even when it seems like a no brainer.", "It may be a perfectly acceptable choice, but it's not a perfect relationship.", "Values necessarily inform the law else wouldn't the content of the law be arbitrary? What would be an example of a law that isn't informed by values? 2+2=4? But even to make a point to pass that as a law would be to take a value position against math illiteracy!", "Works both ways. You have states that say you cannot \"control a woman's body\" by protecting a child, while also controlling everyone's body by forcing them to get vaccinated and wear masks at all times.", "FUCK this woman.", "> Laws are largely arbitrary\n\nThat is quite the statement, given how they tend to have aligned across cultures.", "Gee, why would they choose kid jail over spending time with their violent, abusive father?\n\nLet's think on that...\n\nYou'd have to be a pretty shitty person for the kids to choose juvie over lunch with you.", "Not that I agree with them, but I suspect the other commenter would say “greed” and/or “power”.", "8 year custody fight? Does Michigan not have a guardian who helps to decide custody? I don't know the details of this case, but it seems no one but the lawyers made out in this story. Holy fuck what a travesty.", "Those who write them.\n\nSeriously. If you don't have control of the pen, you have no say in the laws. If you don't have a person with a moral compass writing the laws, you're gonna get self-serving, abusive laws.\n\nThat's why democratic political systems tend to be less violent. More democratic systems give more people a more equal grip on it, so to speak.\n\nThis also highlights the schism between morality and ethics. Morality is an individual's personal views of right and wrong. Ethics is a code of behavior imposed by an external source. We write law as an attempt to generate a system of ethics, which is then communicated to the people as an effort to bring their morality in line with the \"ethics\" as supposed by the law. The writer of the laws is the one whose morality gets transcribed.", "This is exactly right. Regardless of what she suspected was the problem none of it was the children's fault. There were a thousand other options she could have taken to punish the parents involved instead of the children. Instead she went after the most vulnerable people in the room to make herself feel good about \"educating\" them on what they should be doing.", "I’ll bet you’re some sheep that wears pants everywhere too, just because the government tells you to.", "Or she just happens to have a pleasant family and can't understand that people have reasons to want to avoid their toxic family members.", "60+ million people voted for Trump a second time. There's a lot of crazy here.", "Is the lawsuit ongoing or was there a decision/ settlement?", "Our rule of law is run by tyrants and fucking imbeciles. This country is going to tear itself apart.", "You can't order anyone to have a healthy relationship lol. Otherwise there'd be no such thing as domestic violence. That being said, parental brainwashing does occur, not saying it happened in this case but unsubstantiated claims of violence in hotly contested cases of family court always give me pause.", "Ah, well sounds like we shouldn't ever sentence anyone to prison anymore as long as they're cancelled, right, Judge?", "What a fucking monster.", "Parent Alienation CAN be a real thing. But it is also claimed by abusive parents (Especially fathers as mother’s claims of alienation are usually dismissed) when the child legitimately does not want to be in the same room as the parent who physically and psychologically abused them. It is really big in the Mens Rights movement to claim PA when the other parent provides proof of abuse.", "What the article doesn't mention is the dude was acting as a go-between for the Israeli consulate in regards to the case, which I think may be overstepping his role as an arbiter.\n\n\"Fischer said that shortly after the news reports of the children being sent to Children's Village, he received a letter from Roey Gilad, the consul general of Israel for the Midwest, expressing concern about Gorcyca and her handling of the children, who have dual citizenship.\n\nGilad wanted to speak to the children and asked Fischer to ask Tsimhoni's lawyers to arrange it. Fisher eventually passed on the request, and when he ran into one of the lawyers at a social event, handed him Gilad's business card.\"\n\n[https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/)\n\nhttps://casetext.com/case/fischer-v-mich-judicial-tenure-commn", "“The writer of the laws is the one whose morality gets transcribed”\n\nWhich is my point entirely, laws are informed by morals, whether they be the morals of 1 million people or 1 person.", "Remedied on appeal. Jesus Christ these people drink their own Kool-Aid. \"Dont worry everyone this would have worked itself out using the proper legal channels no problem. Just sit tight in jail for next 8 months while your case makes its way through the appeal process. What? You are only 13 and dont have a job so you cant afford a lawyer? Dont worry we will appoint you one. But now you gotta wait 12 months for that appeal. The public defender is quite busy. It will definitely work itself out though.\"", "Texas is telling people they have control over their bodies including a fetus having control over theirs.\n\nE: downvote me for clarifying the Texas logic. Great open minded forum we have here on Reddit", "And to that I would say that greed or power would be justified by the law writer’s morals.", "> It is really big in the Mens Rights movement to claim PA when the other parent provides proof of abuse. \n\nWhat the fuck...\n\nThis is such a trashy assumption. Men in support groups are encouraged to be abusive and manipulate the system?\n\nI'm so fucking sick of the hatred men have to put up with from bigots like you...", "Lets say that the parents were not divorced and the kids refused to live with them. For no apparent good reasons. What happens then?\n\nWhich is not to support the behavior/approach of the judge. But there is a level of \"You are a kid. You do not get to decide.\" that has to be allowed.", "“Why aren’t you having a healthy relationship with your father? I specifically requested it”", "It's almost like there's a significant difference between the inconvenience of putting cloth over your nose and mouth + getting a itty bitty shot, and shoving 7 pounds through your crotch and being forced to raise it for 18 years.", "I bet you need assistance breathing too, huh?", "I would also say that the fact the father didn't say \"Hang on, that's a bit harsh\" says a lot about him. Instead it seems a bit more like \"Good, if I can't see them neither can you\"", "That part bothers me the most because what she's saying is 'i thought I had complete power over them, I never realized my power play might not work'", "No. Not once it's being taken out on the kids. Any parent who would support their kids being ordered to juvenile detention if the kids didn't spend time with them is a terrible parent and a terrible person, and does not deserve any custody or visitation.\n\nThis should have been a Wisdom of Solomon moment with the two women claiming a child, where he ordered the child split in half and half given to each woman (and gave the whole child to the woman that objected). \n\nJudge: If you don't spend time with your father, I will send you to juvenile detention. Do you agree with that, Dad?\n\nFather: Yes! Thank you judge.\n\nJudge: Well, I'm not going to do that, and you're an awful parent. Kids, you're free to go, and if you ever need a restraining order hit me up.", "And what if the mother prevents the father from loving and caring and building that relationship?", "One of the worst things that ever happened to the US justice system was qualified immunity. The fear is that people would sue cops/judges any time they got a verdict they didn't like and it would bog down the system, but all its done is create a system where it's almost impossible to hold cops and judges accountable, even when their crimes are indisputable. Nobody should ever be above the law under any circumstances.", "The public rebuke was once enough punishment when the public tarred and feathered abuses of power. Sounds like us public are gonna have to make the punishment enough again.", "I think you misread the comment.", "The solution in such cases is not threatening children who have been manipulated. The judge has legal power, but does not have magical powers. She can’t order loving happy relationships. \n\nShe is not on trial for her goals. She is on trial for her methods and her competence.\n\nJudges are highly trained, highly paid, and highly respected. She deals with difficult situations. Using her black robe and judicial authority to bully 3 children is wrong. She is a bully who did not get her way. With the resources and power she has, this is the solution she chose.", "That is a massive accusation you can't just drop without some sort of proof, Jesus", "Ahhh, whoops, I fucked up originally and conflated ethics and morality (God FUCKING Damnit, again xD). So `s/morality/ethics` in my comments before that clarification. Re-reading, I'm pretty sure we're in agreement, and I might've just failed a vocabulary test xD", "Right? It's straight bigotry presented as fact.\n\nForcing an affiliation (that has no real world representation) between a criminal abuser and people trying to help the mental health of struggling people.\n\nIt's disgusting that bigotry like that can be spouted with almost no pushback because people support it.", "Not gonna lie, I'd be slashing that cunt's tires a few times a couple years later.", "Good parents make sacrifices to protect their children.\n\nHe's not doing a good job of showing himself as a \"loving and caring father\" by standing there and letting his children that aren't even teenagers yet all be sent to juvenile hall.\n\nHe just comes off as vindictive and if anything gives credit to the kids' claims that he's a piece of shit thet doesn't care about them.", "Bro every issue i had the social worker just told me to get a lawyer. Like what's the point of having a social worker if all im told is get a lawyer?? Goddamn", "I don't think he did, the original comment claimed mens rights groups suggest the father claims he is being alienated, after his partner produces evidence of the father being abusive.", "Separating them from both parents seems like the right thing to do though.", "What a bitch. Kinda surprised the woman’s lawyer wasn’t voicing at least one objection..", "how does this story keep getting more insane?", "I find myself doubting what you seem to be implying: that nobody would draft a law which contradicts their moral code.\n\nBut I suppose it’s begging the question… if one does something that one considers morally wrong to another, to benefit oneself, is that a moral action in their eyes, or are they simply ignoring their morality? If it is a moral action, then your point stands, otherwise it does not.\n\nOf course this is in the context of “there exists a person for which this rule holds”, not that “for all people this rule holds”.", "I recently watched a video about this \"divorce from hell\". It's very thorough. Channel is called Lehto's Law. Guy's a lawyer up in Michigan and covers legal news. Link below\n\nhttps://youtu.be/w5_M47H6GYA", ">At one point, the children sat in chairs in the hallway with their arms locked together, refusing to enter the courtroom. \n\nSeems like they are pretty clear on the abuse.", "That's not the case, though. The kids don't live with the father, they see him for mandated visitation. They just refused to talk to him. Lets say that the parents were not divorced and the kids refused to talk to them. Is there a scenario where a judge would even get involved?", "> Lets say that the parents were not divorced and the kids refused to live with them. For no apparent good reasons. What happens then?\n\nThe kids said he was violent. They were willing to go to jail rather than being forced to spend time with him. There is no moral justification to force kids under threat of imprisonment to spend time with someone they say is abusing them, what you are saying is fucking insane.", "Lol, you triggered the Men's Rights Assholes.", "God that accent and haircut is the WORST in HUMANITY’S HISTORY!", "How so? In some cultures it's legal to force someone to marry their rapist. In some cultures, duels for personal honor are completely legal. In others, you can't buy beer on a certain day of the week.\n\nThe concept of universal laws are oxymoronic.", "Mercifully I don’t do divorce cases anymore but I have seen this play out both ways both as attorney to a parent and as a GAL. Some parents will throw around DV to try to get their way, and some parents are manipulative enough to convince a judge that the kids are brainwashed when they’re actually victims of DV.\n\nMy assumption is that this judge is basing her statements on the totality of the evidence rather than taking the father at his word. Can’t say for sure, obviously, but that is certainly the standard.\n\nNow, all that said, threatening these children with incarceration is disgusting. Either (1) they are victims of DV or (2) they have been brainwashed by mom, as the judge claims. Either way, they are victims of these circumstances. Threats are not the answer.", "What kind of sad people look to brag about being shitty to abused people in support groups?\n\nYall are some sad people with way too much hate in your hearts.\n\nI'm sorry you have to go through life carrying that hatred.", "Judges can’t really be punished or removed in most cases for conduct in a court room. It’s a harrowing fact, but even if a judge was sending up only cases that were being overturned for years, they could feasibly keep their position. \n\nOn one hand, it’s a good thing because a judge who is doing something morally right that differs from the public perception should be able to do so. On the other, it leads to judges who get caught on camera doing horrendous keeping their jobs.", "\"I never thought someone would take children's village over door number 1\"\n\nBecause you dont know what's behind door number 1. They do.", "What I’m saying is that if someone drafts a law saying “100 innocent people will die on New Years”, they’d have, in their eyes, some justification to draft that law such that overall they’d be performing a morally good action.\n\nWhether that means if they draft that law then 1000 innocent people will be saved from death, or if the law writer themselves would be saved from death (assuming the law writer’s morals are such that they wouldn’t sacrifice their life for anything).", "Sure. There are lots of scholarly articles you can look up, but one that is presented for the layman and cites some of them is linked below. Keep in mind that the syndrome has been dismissed by the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, and American Medical Association as lacking supporting empirical or clinical evidence and it is not included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders or the International Classification of Diseases. As it is a claimed paychological disorder, their opinions should carry greater weight than lawyers who are being paid to put forth the argument. Canadian courts have rejected Parental alienation btw due to the lack of clinical or empire’s legal evidence. \n\nhttps://www.forbes.com/sites/patriciafersch/2021/03/29/parental-alienation-as-a-defense-to-allegations-of-domestic-violence-and-allegations-of-child-sexual-abuse/?sh=62c5e10525c3", "You cannot order someone to have a healthy relationship. Relationships don't work like that. You can order them to pretend, but you cannot change how a person or child feels and trying to force that does emotional damage to the child. If parental alienation is a factor, that's a job for a therapist, not a judge. Threatening a child because they have emotions is out of line.", "Do you have any proof of this? From what the judge said it seemed more like the mother was manipulating the children into hating their father. Honestly, do you have any proof to back up any of your statement? How often is the claim of parental alienation used by MRM? How often do the ex wives claim abuse falsely? Do you have any corroborating evidence of anything you are saying?", "Right, and \"men's rights groups\" are different from \"men in support groups\".", ">It is really big in the Men’s Rights movement to claim PA when the other parent provides proof of abuse \n\nSource? Or did you just say that because it feels accurate?", "This is what happens when you police your own people. This is also relevant to the actual police.", "Is that not normal? I thought when you're enemies and are divorcing, the kids are like the number one tool (aside for recordings or Facebook posts) so you have to either make sure the kids know to back you up (so don't bring up anything negative, like the time you yelled out \"damn it\" when the kid broke your TV, lest the wife be like \"he always curses in front of the kids. Honey, does daddy say 'Damn it'?\" And make it look like you always yell in front of the kid and whatnot. \n\nLike I can't imagine a divorce case {that has young kids} between angry spouses that doesn't involve the kids being a tool.", "Fetuses aren't people yet", "See my other comment for a link that summarizes the issue, also you can research it yourself in scholarly publications.", "Settled https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/20607966/Fischer\\_v\\_State\\_of\\_Michigan\\_et\\_al", "That may have been in fact what had happened but, is the correct course of action to punish the children?", "People underestimate the power we've given up to the courts, as well as the fact that judges can be just arrogant, biased, and narcissistic as any other flawed human being. It's only getting worse, too.", "My Step-Grandfather's ex-wife poisoned their sons so heavily against him that even after decades of contact, they still don't fully trust him. \n\nHe's the kindest, most gentle man I've ever known. Generous to a fault, and now that he has dementia, they're realizing that it wasn't an act and suddenly want to be involved, but it's a hard pill for the rest of us to swallow.", "8 years later the custody case raged on...oof", "Exactly. Everyone is grabbing their pitchforks without understanding the backstory. A judge will not do this without some crazy sht preceding it. \n\nI would agree that she may have suspected the mother was brainwashing the kids. \n\nThough, I do agree with other commenters that the kids should not be punished for that behavior. A camp where both parents can visit the kids made way more sense and would allow the kids to see what their mom was trying to do.\n\nI really feel bad for those kids. I hope they find peace in the future.", "They can order a relationship, but nothing will make the relationship healthy", "What a piece of shit.", "Pro Redditor here! Race is considered as having more victim points than gender. If you had not mentioned black specifically, you would have had upvotes. I recommend you delete the last sentence to get some upvotes back. I can't guarantee it, though, since you're at -15 and usually once you're that far in the hole, Reddit generally doesn't reverse their vote trend. Just a little protip!\n\nAlso, as a pro, I know that they're going through desperately downvote me for breaking the fourth wall, but that's part of the fun.", "Judge Karen", "Sounds like a \"no true scotsman\" deal..", "Nothing in that links mens rights groups to your claims...\n\nNobody said the abuse and excuse doesn't happen, they challenged your open bigotry which is still open bigotry given the lack of evidence in your source...", "Emotionally manipulating your kids to turn them against the other parent is abusive but it happens in nasty divorces.", "Yeah the old \"you can research it yourself means you have zero evidence to support your claim. What you are saying is akin to ppl saying \"most women lie about being raped.\" You are dismissing an entire genders claim of abuse wo any evidence. Sad and sexist af.", " Damn. Good call. Next time. \n\nThat’s the thing…. There’s always a next time. As long as you’re white", "Mate I'm not arguing that Parental Alienation isn't a thing, the point is your last part\n\n>It is really big in the Mens Rights movement to claim PA when the other parent provides proof of abuse.\n\nDo you not see how massive of an accusation that is ? You're saying there's a legitimate action being misused by abusers on a large scale and is being promoted from within men's rights groups. You did exactly* what conspiracy theorists do - they find a kernel of truth, and warp it into a sinister take. You then offered proof of the kernel to prove the conspiracy theory.\n\nYour post is the exact shit we should be pushing back on, collectively. If you have proof then that is a major thing that needs disseminating, otherwise it's a vile accusation.", "DV?", "And getting involved with the Israeli consulate. When did the US legal code get written by daytime melodrama writers?", "Protecting a child? Fetuses aren't children.\n\nAnd man, I hate to break it to you, but men having legislative control over women's bodies does not work both ways. Just go look up the hoops a woman has to jump through to get her tubes tied. Compare it to a man getting a vasectomy.\n\nI can guarantee you that if men got pregnant instead of women, not only would abortion be legal there would be businesses like JiffyLube dedicated to doing it in twenty minutes or less", "Sorry, domestic violence.", "I think that’s a pretty clear indicator of just how corrupt our legal system is. Sending kids to what I assume is analogous to juvenile hall because they refuse to interact with their dad is fucked.\n\nNo idea what the reason is behind their refusal but it seems pretty clear.", "Domestic Violence", "Domestic violence", "domestic violence.", "Even if they were brainwashed, on what fucked up plane of existence would sending them to juvy help anything? This judge is a powermad loonie.", "I’m sure that made sense in your head somehow. But to give you a hint about the initial false analogy you made; pregnancy is not contagious. It’s the same reason food workers are required to wash hands and wear hairnets, because we as a society have decided that spreading disease is a bad thing. Controlling your body in the context of pregnancy is a personal decision, controlling it as far as vaccination as a social one. Social decisions should be regulated, personal ones should have a lot more leeway.", "What? The men's right movement is a specific anti-feminist movement that is comprised of several male supremacy hate groups.\n\nIt is not the same as support groups that include men. It is also not the same as the men's liberation movement, which is concerned with certain societal constraints placed on men without being anti-women.", "People wonder why we have the largest prison population in the world. Crazy judges can put you in jail for whatever reason they want. Our system is broken and needs to be rebuilt from scratch. People that are currently in jail need to have a hearing to see if they are only there become some crazy judge was having a bad day or the DA just made crap up.", "Sure, her public censure was enough... I live in Oakland County and this is the first I'm hearing of this. \n\nYour constitutional right to freedom of speech extends to not speaking as well. She can't order the children to interact with their father as long as they are not defiant to his commands.", "And fuck the court that basically refused to let her be punished. Insane.", "Yeah I mean parents do actually brainwash kids into feeling certain ways about other divorced parents. Not the judges place to do what she did though.", "Although it’s not the judge’s job, brainwashed by mom is 100%a likely possibility.", "It's not as much a punishment as the consequence of what looks like a nasty divorce. After all it didn't get resolved in 8 years, so some fuckery was surely afoot.\n\nSeparating them from both parents honestly does not sound like the worst idea.\n\nThe way she framed it and talked to the kids looks inappropriate, but without more context I can't say that the end result was unjust.", "Lying in court isn't acceptable, and shouldn't be given a pass under any condition. If the dude is an abuser then he should be nowhere near his kids ever again. But if he is not an abuser, then as a parent he has certain rights about access to his children. \n\nIf a child is lying about abuse simply because he doesn't like his father and wants to be around his mother instead, then fabricating stories to get his way, and rewarding that in the legal system, sets a bad precedent both from a legal and moral standpoint.", "Yea that sounds like a good reason to strip someone from power.", " By what definition? Because there’s no definition of a fetus that could only apply to an unborn person and not a person outside the womb.", "Right?? I’m a child therapist and work with wards of the court and divorced/separated kids. The court should know what parental alienation could look like and how to address it. I’ve seen some judges say some pretty crazy stuff and never get reprimanded. This was wildly out of line which makes sense why they are having an official disciplinary hearing for it.", "Except I provided a link, lol.", "Many parents care enough about their kids to not do that to them. There's a difference between giving a judge all the info they need for a custody decision and using the kids. \"My spouse works on weekends so I should have the kids then\" vs. \"Record your father cursing at the football game on TV so I can tell the court he has 'anger issues'\"", "Was is really that bad or was it a reaction to \"the jews\" by racists? I don't really know. Guy did try to tell the consulate to follow certain channels but it would have been better to tell them to find someone else to talk to and not try to be a fixer for them.", "As a counter anecdote, one of the reasons I can't stand my younger sister's boyfriend is because he loves to claim his ex is poisoning his son's mind. In reality, he actually just straight isn't a great dad and his son is figuring him out. He complains he doesn't get enough visitation with his son, but then wonders why his son starts texting his mom he wants to go home when he takes a nap while his son is over.\n\nIt's like, no dude, the kid is upset because he wants you to be excited that he's there, not take a nap. He's 7, you're a freaking adult. He's allowed to not understand you had a long day at work; you've gotta be the adult there. Kids aren't always rational, but put in a little more effort. He's still yelling the mom put the kid up to it. It's ridiculous and doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what actually happened. He also constantly bad mouths his son's stepfather, who has been in the kid's life since he was a baby. He's gotta learn to actually mind his son's feelings more if he doesn't want the kid to hate him", "The attitude in her voice makes me irrationally angry.", "While you're correct, 74.2m voted for Trump", "It's hard to believe that she's not either banging him or on his payroll. The number of times she praises him, despite (in theory) having absolutely no idea what kind of father he is, seems a little too fishy.", "i mean, \"traumatized for life,\" seems a bit of an exaggeration. I havent formed an opinion on this judge's action yet, but it certainly won't be that. especially if she is right. Growing up I had a few people put some good ol' healthy fear into me to reset my course... a couple of them were judges", "There is, but most people don't like it.", "I mean depends on what the issue is. A social worker has a limited scope of what they are able to do.", "I guess if you’re a shitty self-centered parent and see your kid as a tool instead of a child who loves both parents.", "I think you're misreading it. \n\nThey're claiming that if a dad is abusive and called out for it, they say the mom is coaching them and the dad is claiming alienation", "i agree with you wholly.", "70m+. It's worse.", "I guarantee you if men were held 100% accountable for not controlling their sperm and creating a pregnancy they would insist they had the right to force a woman to have an abortion.", "Dormant volcanoes", "> ...hatred men have to put up with from bigots...\n\nIf you're not careful, you can kill someone with laughter with statements like that.", "Yeah I saw that as well. The only winners here are the attorneys representing the parents. 8+ years of litigation? That’s gotta be at least six-figures worth of billing to each client right?\n\nAnd for what now, these kids are adults. What custody is there?", "But the kids weren't facing any punishment for lying, they were facing punishment simply for not having lunch with their father. That gives me the impression that they are not lying. They sat in jail for 17 days.", "Yes but you're posting non scientific garbage. The Forbes article claims there's no scientific research on PAS yet a quick search of [PubMed and Science Direct's](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190740920319952) databases shows there's been 43 [empirical](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0963721419827271), [peer reviewed](https://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/102708p26.shtml) [scientific studies](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01926180500301444) this [century](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Deirdre-Rand/publication/290361566_The_spectrum_of_parental_alienation_syndrome_part_III_The_Kopetski_follow-up_study/links/5733d30408ae298602dcf14f/The-spectrum-of-parental-alienation-syndrome-part-III-The-Kopetski-follow-up-study.pdf) on validating PAS which follow PRISMA guidelines for psychological research.", "Do you know the goodmenproject? It is also men’s support. They call out MRA for their misuse of PA. This has been documented in scholarly articles, within the psychological community and the legal community. \n\nhttps://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/the-truth-and-the-myth-of-parental-alienation/", "My wife's step dad's (yes, there were a few) were abusive and she told me the behavior of this judge was extemely common and was found in almost every professional person who was involved in their lives. Cops would blame the mom for being abused, would say the mom was brainwashing or controlling the children when they didn't want to be around the men. The worst part? Her mom was abusive too, and her and her siblings as kids were never ever helped by anyone. Not a single professional helped them. Ever.", "The fact that anyone voted for him the first time is insane.", "Men's rights activists have twisted the court into believing when a child is scared of a parent (usually the dad) its because the mom brainwashed them when in reality the dad is abusive.\n\nEdit: clearly some of you are triggered by me mentioning men's rights activists. So I'll clarify. \n\nAbusive men shouldn't get custody and children who are old enough to speak for themselves and say \"this man is violent and I don't want a relationship with him\" should be believed. This is a rampant court issue and sexism plays heavily into their decisions, both in blaming mothers for the children's lack of relationship with their father and in expecting mothers to be the better primary caregiver.\n\nEdit 2, sources\n\nhttps://www.vawlearningnetwork.ca/our-work/issuebased_newsletters/issue-34/index.html\n\nhttps://www.forbes.com/sites/patriciafersch/2021/03/29/parental-alienation-as-a-defense-to-allegations-of-domestic-violence-and-allegations-of-child-sexual-abuse/?sh=55b61fb525c3\n\nhttps://www.womensaid.org.uk/parental-alienation-a-dangerous-and-harmful-concept/\n\nhttps://fountainhillcenter.org/parental-alienation-and-domestic-violence/", "Not sure what age the kids are, since it doesn't say when the divorce proceedings began. That was definitely not the first hearing. Safe to say the answer is still \"too old to still be dealing with this shit\".", "Still though, she was trying to do the right thing for these kids future and the father. Certainly, the wrong tactic by far, but she pinpointed the problem.\n\nThe mother seems to be a fucking nut job.", "I just googled the word \"fetus\" and the first result has a definition that fits your criteria:\n\n> an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception", "I get that but the judge is removing the children's ability to have a voice in the matter. Especially for their ages. Also, all the judge's actions are going to do is increase resentment towards their dad. The memories they have from their time at kiddie jail will forever be tied to their father.", "Laws are structured in a way to be convenient for the lawmakers. Any existence of morals within the legal system is usually the cause of those working outside of it to change it, not an inherent property of laws themselves.", "I mean, to be fair, mom probably did brainwash them. Not saying it makes the Judge's actions right, but it's an awful situation overall", "\"The public rebuke was enough punishment\"\n\n\nWhat the fuck? So the law doesn't matter if enough people in the world know about it?\n\nWhat sort of dumb ass take is that.", "reminds me of that stupid bible story where 2 women claim to be the mother and so they decide to cut the baby in half but the \"real\" mother jumps up and says no let the other woman have her. It's a super stupid way to decide parentage, but your comment reminded me of it. Why would the father, if he's so loving, be ok with his kids spending 17 days in juvie because they didn't want to see him. If my kids didn't want to spend time with me I'd be crushed... but I wouldn't want to see them punished by going to juvenile detention.", "This judge has the most defined cuntface I've ever seen. Avoid at all cost!", "Frankly after reviewing everything around here, both of them are abusive but it seems mostly to each other with kids in the crosshairs.", "But what about that says “not alive” or “not a person”? Legally, you have to get way more specific than that.", "I tried reading that but it's so inflammatory and opinion-based. BUT I did notice something - the person writing that talks about MRAs, not Men's Rights groups, I think that distinction is important.\n\nMRAs are a whole other beast, created out of red pill culture (I think). MRAs don't have the best of reps, and people labelling themselves as such seems to be in a similar vein as incels who do the same.\n\nI will add though I appreciate your effort to educate on the matter. At first it seemed like such an inflammatory statement to make. But yes, I absolutely do believe MRA groups would weaponise something like PA.", "Yeah I’d tend to believe it’s both people suck and the armchair activists pick their side and run to the extremes with their analysis", "Let’s not pretend that fathers have an advantage in court over mothers. This is a weird one off case", "The judge found them in contempt and punished them. While the charges are a consequence of the divorce they are still a punishment. She did not send them to the children's village(jail) out of concern for their safety. If she was concerned about their safety and was interested in de-programming them other options are available.", "Please, please Understand there's a huge problem with judges siding with domestic violence abusers and victimizing generations of children with the court.", "And sometimes the mother does brainwash the kids. I’m witnessing it at this very moment with a friend.", "It's really, really not that unique", "Let's not also include that the Supreme Court of Michigan overturned this lady's suspension because \"Public rebuke was enough.\". That's fucking bullshit.", "\"With all due respect your Honor, but eat my shorts.\"", "Your friend is the Dad, I assume", "Critical theory claptrap.", "Haha, you might want to look at your own links - they do not do what you claim (not all are following PRISMA guidelines, like the “study” that is a divorce attorney’s opinion).", "I don't doubt it, but I don't have a solution for it. She has a history of slapping him and taking kids out of the country regardless of custody rights (Israel). It's not an easy case and impossible for the court of public opinion to decide.", "Judge Karen", "https://www.cor-law.com/blog/women-get-child-custody-90-percent-cases-isnt-gender-discrimination\n90% is your definition of uncommon?", "This is obviously a very shitty judge but let’s not forget the fathers group who supported this. What kind of controlling piece of shit doesn’t step in at this moment and tell the judge to stop threatening his children?", "This is untrue. Courts heavily favor women in custody battles.", "it helps no one to be reductive", "[Here's an article](https://politicalresearch.org/2011/03/01/fathers-rights-groups-threaten-womens-gains-and-their-safety) that mentions specific groups in relation to allegations of PAS.", "What you’re telling me oppressors organizing together in the face of the oppressed organizing together has like oppressive goals?! I’m shocked", "This is akin to saying women claiming rape are liars. Have there been some men who have lied about PAS to get their way, sure. But to make it seem like any man or most men claiming this are MRA twisting the truth and lying w no proof is worst than garbage. It's sexist and bullshit. \n\nThere have been [43 peer reviewed](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190740920319952), PRIMA following studies this century alone validating PAS as an abusive reality and that men suffer from it the most. These are [empirical](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290361566_The_spectrum_of_parental_alienation_syndrome_part_III_The_Kopetski_follow-up_study), [peer reviewed](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01926180500301444), mostly authored by women, studies which are [independent](https://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/102708p26.shtml) and only seeking to find the reality of the situation. \n\nI have first hand experience w this when one of my good friends got divorced. His ex wife lawyer interviewed me looking to corroborate her story of being abused a NYE several years ago. One where my wife and I witnessed her attack him w a rolling pin and throw a frying pan and him only touch her to stop her from hitting him. She was blackedout drunk but swore in open court she never hit him (a lie I saw w my own eyes) and that he raped and abused her for years (obviously I wasn't there always so I cannot dismiss all her claims but the aforementioned and another time she claimed he raped her on a date when we were out of town and he physically couldn't of) She won full custody and then told these lies to her kids until they wouldn't talk to him. Only just this last year his oldest came to him claiming he heard her talking to her boyfriend about how she lied and got what she deserved in the settlement, apologizing to his father and making amends. The two younger kids still believe the mom. \n\ntl;dr I am not saying this story is typical, it's def n=1, but to dismiss PAS as some made up BS is sexist af and enraging. I would never say a woman is just making up a rape allegation wo evidence and neither should you say a man is making up PAS wo proof.", "People on here saying PAS is made up, it's not. Google scholar the scientific literature on the topic; it's real. \n\nAlso, how do you feel when a man says a woman claiming rape is prob just making it up to improve her situation? That's BS wo any proof to back it up. It's also BS to dismiss a mans claim of PAS off the cuff and dismiss him. Don't be a sexist.", "If a relationship with my children was ultimately my goal, this would be the last avenue I would take if I was in the father’s shoes. I cannot imagine the children not having absolute contempt for a parent who thinks this would be ok to do. Those kids will never forget their dad, just pacing in the back like it’s all good, while they’re being sent to juvenile detention. And who knows, the mother could be just as bad as the father. Divorce brings out the worst in people. Once these kids hit 18, they probably won’t speak to neither parent after this shit show.", "What a rubbish human. My god.", "I didnt say what you think I said. I didn't say PA isn't real. I said MRA twisted the court into siding with abusers. This is real. And women getting a custody more often is also real, and it's courts being sexist, period. \n\n Kids should always always always be listened to and believed.", "How in the fuck is this miserable cunt a Family Court Judge? Is she in a relationship with the father?", "Her words could also come from facts presented by social workers and psychologists who investigated the case, the couple and the children. \n\nIt is still a horrible way to make her case, and I completely disagree with how she handled it. But she acted like someone who felt the kids were being brainwashed by one parent to hate the other. The violence claim was disregarded so quickly that I think it was something already investigated and considered unsubstantiated or even entirely untrue.\n\nStill, the judge acted like a horrible person in how she handled it. But to make it like the father deserves that his kids don't want to talk to him makes it clear you do not know enough about divorce involving kids and how ugly it gets when kids get used as weapons.", "That's only because juries are untrained. If juries were a function that was supported in society with education, juries would be less prone to influence.", "The very notion of \"advantage\" itself can be rhetorically whittled to the bare knob of its meaning", ">Before downvoting this comment, do some research. \n\nLol.\n\nYou're special.", "Of the 43 listed 41 do follow PRISMA guidlines so don't single out one and claim it is all of them. That's like a man dismissing all rape allegations bc of the Duke lax case or that Rolling Stones article about that frat. You are just looking to preserve your sexist notion that PAS is bullshit and no different from a someone who denies rape every time they hear a claim. Gross and sexist af.", ">I don't have enough knowledge to say if parental alienation therapy is backwards brainwashing or what\n\nIt 1000% is brainwashing.", "people need to wake up to the fact that the justice system is to keep the elites in power, not to bring real justice.", "OK, sorry. I am a little agitated from this thread w all the \"PAS is false and doesn't happen\" talk. My fault.", "I'm on the judge's side. Not even sorry about it", "MRA = Mens Rights activists. \n\nMen's rights groups aren't constituted of men's rights activists is what you're saying?\n\nSounds like you're saying \"Oh but there's good Men's right activists\" which... Cool? Yes, there are, but that doesn't deflect from the article you're talking about.", "You missed my point. No judge is going to successfully force a relationship between those kids and that father. If anything, the way she handled it will just build resentment. And I took the way she handled it not as, the facts supporting the dad and refuting the violence have already presented, but rather that she has no regard for how the children feel or what they say.", "The line I always get fed about courts is they operate under the guide of \"what's best for the child.\"", "Are you crazy, children's even said that they don't want to talk to their father because he's too violent", "\"they were facing punishment simply for not having lunch with their father\"\n\nYou can't force kids to love their father or engage in specific activities with their father. But entitled time is still entitled time. \n\nThe video states these claims were unsubstantiated. You have no reason to believe otherwise other than a desire for the judge to be wrong. It's not like they could have left the jail half way through and said \"ok I'll have the lunch,\" the contempt charge was already done.\n\nThere is no evidence to support abuse. The child knew he had court ordered time with the father, and when that time came he didn't go. At a hearing, later, to discuss \\why\\ they didn't respect that time, the child justified this decision by saying his father was abusive. It had never come up prior during past proceedings.\n\nThe natural assumption is to excuse the action of avoiding the court mandate and avoid getting in trouble. The fallback from that wasn't calculated by the child (or his mother). There is zero evidence to the contrary. Only bias.", "Typical reactionary humans.", "i'd like to talk to you a lot more about this, would you be interested in reading some of my literature?", "MRAs are a subset from my limited understanding, and you should absolutely do some research in em as it's not something I care about or give much oxygen to. It seems to be a specific label used by people who build sub communities that re-enforce negative and damaging behaviour, and have been known to be an echo chamber for people who really need therapy and a good fucking slap.", "Couldn't the mother then step in too? She can stop it, if she can theoretically brainwash them, she could convince them to talk with their father. \n\nMIC DROP.\n\nEdit: Seriously would appreciate a response here if you got one. Feeling like lobbing some of the criticism in the direction of the mother? It takes two women claiming that child for it to come to the point of it being split in half, and either could have said something...but the fault you find in this case is that only ONE of them didn't.", "Former divorce atty as well. Where the hell was the guardian during all this? Why the fuck are we not all in therapy so a qualified therapist can be the one making these determinations and building an actual relationship between dads and kids? As the dad (if I'm not abusive) I certainly don't want my kids in juvie.\n\nIf there was trauma before, the judge just retraumatized those kids pretty fucking hard. If there wasn't trauma before, there is now.", "So much needless harm to children. We tell them they could erupt at any minute but no one listens.", "Yeah I know what you're talking about happened in one of my old neighborhoods right on their driveway", "my brother just spent the last 4 or 5 years dealing with this. It was fucking horrible.", "If the father isn't getting the time entitled to him from divorce proceedings then that is reason for the judge to levy punishment on the MOTHER, not on the CHILDREN. What the fuck.", "No, I'm familiar with redpill & MRA. I'm not sure what your distinction is other than to say not all men's rights activists are bad people... which that's fine but also not relevant.\n\nIt's not a subset, the acronym is used both in real life & in terminally online MRA redpill forums.", "The claim to violence was unsubstantiated, though. I do not agree with the judge's threats but I can guarantee you, she's seen plenty of cases where one parent is poisoning the children with false memories and narratives against the other parent.\n\nIt's called parental alienation, or domestic violence by proxy. It's more common than you'd ever know, especially if you've surrounded yourself with good people who would never do this to their kids. Neither parent is more prone to do this, I think it comes with a narcissistic and abusive personality type. From what I've seen, truly violent and abusive parents will back off in these cases, or not push the issue, because the abuse can be proven and they'd be penalized in some way. I'm all for protecting kids from an abusive parent, but too often the abusive one is the puppeteer pulling the strings, planting fear and hatred in an impressionable mind.", "Great source. But I was referring to cases like the video not being unique. Meaning, it's happened more than once or twice. \n\n\n\nParents settle 90% of child custody cases without a judge’s ruling.The United States has about 12.9 million custodial parents.Custodial parents get an average of $3,431 annually in child support.40% of states in the US aim to give equal custody time to both parents.74.3% of custodial fathers have full-time jobs.In 51% of custody cases, both parents agree that the mother should have custody.41.6% of custodial mothers are 40 years old or older.", "Its weird you assume there are gender norms to this.\n\nIt happens regularly in all directions. People get ugly in family court.", "This.", ">I'm not sure what your distinction is other than to say not all men's rights activists are bad people... which that's fine but also not relevant.\n\nMy point was MRA seems to be specifically used by people who want the connection with the MRA and red pill movement. I've only ever seen MRA used specifically by people who want that association and echo chamber. But again, it's not like I play close attention to it, I have no interest in groups like that.", "Hey there Noobphobia! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an upvote instead of commenting \"This.\"! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :)\n**\n ^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback! More info:) [^(Reddiquette)](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439#wiki_in_regard_to_comments)", "What a psychotic person, and also jailed until you graduate high school? That's literally years (a decade for the younger children), and is probably more than what many violent offenders would get. Thank god the media got involved, though the fact that they spent 17 days is in of itself a disgrace.", "naw, that claim was unsubstantiated /s\n\n\na 13 yo didn't come prepared to prosecute their father at a family hearing", "If the children are refusing to go, and literally refusing to move. Do you expect the mother to physically tackle them, and restrain them, to transfer the custody?\n\nDoes a 13 year old not have the agency of their own movement?", "Just as parental alienation is also brainwashing.", "Where's the mother in all this? Can she not put a stop to it even easier since the children presumably listen to her? I can see the bias here because you're only criticizing the stubbornness of one parent in the fight to have a relationship with their kids. \n\nI will leave you to sit in your armchair and criticize how much OTHER people should sacrifice, because I know how hard that is to do. Now that you've said how he comes off, maybe take a step back and reexamine how you come off (not well).", "Family court is such a sham, generally.", "and we trust this person to make life altering decisions for people/us.", "You think MRAs are a support group?", "Regardless of whether thats the case or not, the judge doesnt have the authority to order children to like their parents, and then jail them when they dont.", "This disgusting comment thread brigaded by MRAs?", "Then the judge still does not have the authority to order children to like their dad and send them to jail.", "Yes", "Absolutely disgusting.", "Im sure the juvenile detention center had nothing to do with this", "It's the abuse and domestic violence where gender comes into play. \n\nhttps://canadianwomen.org/the-facts/gender-based-violence/\n\nPlus, people judge us and our ability to parent based on our gender. So when it comes to biases in court, gender plays a huge huge role.", "I don't believe, in most cases, that children can be brainwashed in this way. Maybe under the age of 5, but after that kids just want to feel loved, safe, and to be a in a stable home. \n\nIf there is truly nothing wrong with the dad and the mom is trying to brainwash, then mom's home won't feel stable and loving. Kids are honest, they have no power and nothing to gain from lying about abuse. \n\nChoosing not to believe kids only makes them feel less loved and less secure.", "What??\n\nThe women's rights movement is a specific anti-masculinist movement that is comprised of several female supremacy hate groups.", "I've seen people question it, but I've not seen any brigading in reference to MRAs specifically, aside from my agreement that MRAs are in fact a bunch of cunts.", "A judge who orders someone to have a good relationship with a person who is violent to them needs to not be a judge or be in any position of power for that matter.", "Have you considered that maybe your friend really is an asshole?", "I have seen most judges act this way", "They are dormant what could happen? My baby really wants to climb it!", "That's an opinion piece that opens with them opposing a bill that would award custody 50/50 by default as is the norm in the western world.", "Unpopular opinion: she is right in the sense that given the evidence and evaluations, the father is and should have a relationship with his kids. Was the juvi time needed? I don't think so. \n\nAs a divorced man with kids and who has dated a couple of divorce attornies...you have no idea how shitty the system is for father's. Mothers are just assumed to get custody because they are women. It's not till very recently that a lot of judges require 50/50 custody programs. People really want that child support 😞\n\nI'm not saying that she was fully right. However I am saying that her heart was in the right place. Sometimes you have to go to extremes to reverse some of the damage done by one parent. If I would have been the dad in this situation I would have crossed every line and moved every mountain to be with my kids. \n\nWhich reminds me. Don't have kids if you believe in divorce. There, I said it. It's a shit show and a huge waste of money in fees that will cripple both of you for many years to come.", "Most judges I have seen have acted similarly. They are given too much power.", "> Before downvoting this comment, do some research.\n\nSounds like the exact same quote from anti-vaxxers, just believe me and do your own research on the matter.\n\nPlease show us a source when this claim is true or you are just trying creating a boogeyman based on your dislike of a group.", "Wtf. What a bitch", ">You don’t get to force children to love someone.\n\nWe already decided that is a crime.", "Idk could go either way", "Is it up to her to make that interpretation?", "Not a single person would read my source nor take it seriously. I've played this game before.", "It doesn't matter if she pinpointed the problem. She tried to force* a resolution to the problem by putting children in a timeout in Juvenile Detention until the graduate high school for disobeying her unreasonable demand. That's insane.\n\nEven if the kids were poisoned by their mother against their father, just letting them live with their mother and be shitty to their father is still a better outcome than this.", "As far as I know in these cases that's almost always done. A judge wouldn't be able able to go off like that with those claims without having any corroborating evidence. That would be beyond severe misconduct. I think it would be fair to assume that psych evals were done here.", "> don't have kids yet, so maybe I just don't get it, but nah I think at that point I would drop it.\n\nCould the mother also just drop it? She can tell them to engage with their father like she tells them to eat their vegetables. It gets to this point in court because the father is too stubborn to give up trying to see his kids, and the mother is too stubborn to let him see them. Two parties, both claim to love the kids and want what's best, neither of them concede an inch (even for the kids). At best you can say they're equally at fault, but at least in this situation the mother actually has her children reciprocate her feelings. \n\nTwo parents here, neither of them can be considered good. Big mistake on your part to compare your personal situation to this one, we don't know much about it except the fact the judge leaned heavily in one direction (how does that happen unless there's special circumstances?) and used terms like brainwashing and no evidence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the mother in this custody battle could be a little more vindictive than yours, and I don't believe your dad would have been as accommodating if she was. Amicable breakups are a different animal.", "Double vaginal", "I agree - I know someone going through this right now. She was stalked by the father for 5 years. He broke the restraining order she had on him over 90 documented times before the courts took it seriously. Turns out he has antisocial personality disorder. He has no remorse about the situation at all, and the child is special needs and he doesn’t have the capacity to empathize. To him it’s more about control over her and their child rather than coming from a place of love. The court has done a lot of victim blaming and it’s a fucked up situation.", "Around 2015.", "Link's dead, anyone have a summary?", "US judges will only continue to get worse and worse because they know they will NEVER be held accountable. The public needs to take things into their own hands if they want the abuse to stop.", "The judge definitely lost her cool, but we also don't know what reports and information she had; it's possible the children were repeating things they had been told told and not things they actually experienced. These situations can get very messy. A friend of mine was the kid in that scenario about a decade ago, it was a hot mess for a long time. Not that it's common for a parent to be that evil, but when it happens it can do nearly intractable damage.", "The subject of Israel has a way of blinding people. The problem here is that a member of the US judicial system is acting at the behest of foreign agents, this is not something any country should want from its justice system.", "This is the same county as the Oxford shooting. Unrelated, but still my county.. idk what's going on with this place.", "Unborn?", "r/UnexpectedBrooklyn99", "It's just an overview of the case motions. All it says is the case was settled so the judge dismissed it. Defendants couldn't get it dismissed before trial so they settled. I didn't realize pacer paywalled after enough hits.\n\nedit: [https://web.archive.org/web/20211228162454/https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/20607966/Fischer\\_v\\_State\\_of\\_Michigan\\_et\\_al](https://web.archive.org/web/20211228162454/https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/20607966/Fischer_v_State_of_Michigan_et_al)", "What a vile bitch. Throw her in the trash.", "reflexivo", "Believe it or not, yes. Family court is a racket. A lawyer comes in with each parent, slings mud at the oppo until the judge is sufficiently disgusted with at least one of the parents in these contentious cases. This is probably the fifth+ time she's seen this family in court, certainly not the first. At the end of the day, the parent with more money to throw at a lawyer is going to be victorious in their demands. In these situations, a guardian ad litem should be present and representing the kids but I don't know the full background on this case. I've done a lot of work with my county's CASA program, these kids do not get a fair shake.", "Wow fuck Michigan. Her fucking argument was “well I told them I would cut off their hands or they could go with their father, I didn’t expect them to let me cut their hands off.” What an unfathomable cunt. Also fuck Michigan supreme court.", "OK, MRA.", "> On one hand, it’s a good thing because a judge who is doing something morally right that differs from the public perception should be able to do so.\n\nthis reasoning is not far from that employed by monarchists. but the practical reality that we see overwhelmingly defeats the theoretical intended boon. i believe that we are clever enough to invent a judiciary that can decide on matters of law in spirit and letter without being totally unaccountable to the public and without being totally at the mercy of the majority's whim.\n\ndo you agree?", "Exactly, in this case, if there has been parental alienation (and the judge seems pretty convinced there has been) then the victims are the dad and the kids themselves.\n\nIt is the mum here who should be punished, not the kids. Although oftentimes judges hands are tied as many courts don't recognise Parental Alienation as domestic abuse or coercive control so they have no legal standing to punish the perpetrators.\n\nBut NONE of this is the kids fault. This judge is way out of line.", "Okay so you're just going to make that decision because of a possibility? You're not even going to look into it. \"Oh well they might be getting brainwashed, so lets throw all of it out and force contact.\"\n\nGet fucked, dude. WTF is wrong with you? If these kids genuinely don't want contact then they shouldn't be forced to have it.\n\n>sure is fun when threads get brigaded by angry MRAs that can't accept that the kids they won't ever have would never want to be around them and their shitty, toxic attitudes. Never change, Reddit 🙃", "Forcing Children to be with a Violent person cause that’s that Violent person’s Right…she’s stupid. Keep things out of court and be Civil.", "In what fucking world can a judge order you to have a relationship with anyone????????????????? what the fuck is going on? Fuck her with a cactus.", "I'm a democrat. Our party has corruption too. We aren't a magical perfect party. Automatically assuming any corruption you see on the internet is the republicans fault is ignorant.", "Who are the elites in this scenario? The deadbeat dad? He sure seems like a fuckin player to me.", "But he appears to be a good guy! He dresses well and even says THANK YOU. I mean thats enough for me. The guy is a fucking saint. /s", "Don't you know that the American justice system and politicians are for sale?", "So let's be clear. If the judge believed that parental alienation was occurring, then yes, removing the children from the custody of the parent performing the brainwashing is the correct move while a social worker coordinates PAS evaluations with a psychologist. But, throwing the kids into jail for refusing to have lunch with their father because of the suspected PAS is not the right move (and appellate courts agreed). The judge fucked up pretty badly here.", "I mean, if your father is violent and abusive, cutting him out of your life isn’t a bad thing. At all.", "Ok so the father wants custody or wants his children to speak to him and puts them through all this. I guarantee they are not going to speak to him once they are adults.", "The simple thinking of what you're describing is what's wrong with both parties. One side without doubt always assuming it's the other parties fault over whatever issue is getting them upset.", "That's not generally how the judiciary works. But if it were, this all occured in a region of Michigan that currently ranges between 50/50 to heavily Democratic.", "Do was there just no investigation into the kids claims of violence from the father? Obviously it's a very difficult thing for a child to prove, but it's also not the kind of thing one is likely to make up.", "It's like the judge is a sociopath. Zero concept of empathy, only cold logic \"Here is a problem, and I have provided the logical solution. Why would they not pick the path I ordered? It is clearly correct\".", "\"Your dad is a good man!\" \n\nLady how in the holy FUCK would you possibly know that? Seriously?? You can judge his character by a few fucking court appearances.. and you're gonna trust that over his own fucking kids who openly admit he is violent? \n\nI hope this fucking cunt bitch gets what the fuck is coming to her. \n\nAnd this is coming from someone whose dad is abusive and nobody believes me either because I was his target. Everyone else thinks he's hilarious and goofy and awesome. \n\n\nFUCK YOU \"JUDGE\" YOU PIECE OF SHIT!\n\n..Well that felt good. Vent some frustration out..lol", "Just like their mom asked them to", "Fetuses are a collection of living cells, so you won't hear any arguments from me over whether or not they are alive. However, a pile of human feces is also a collection of living cells. Same goes for a recently amputated limb, or a transplanted kidney. Just being a collection of living human cells isn't enough to grant personhood, so asking whether a fetus is alive is missing the more important question.\n\nAs far as whether a fetus is a person: legally, a natural person is defined as an individual human being. A fetus cannot be an individual, it is attached to its mother as a fundamental part of its existence and detaching it from its mother turns it from a fetus to something else. This process of detachment is called \"birth\" and is legally when personhood is granted in most jurisdictions.", "I'm a democrat, I'm party isn't magically perfect. Automatically assuming any corruption you see on the internet is due to a republican is a statistical likelihood. There, fixed it for ya.", "Michigan judges run without party affiliation.\n\nAlso, it's a well-known fact that Democrats have never, ever been corrupt.", "The fact that the children would rather go to jail than be left with their abusive father should probably be a red flag that their claims may be pretty legit.", "\"MIC DROP\"? Oof.\n\nAnyway, we don't know that the mother was doing anything wrong. We can speculate what might have caused the rift between the father and the kids, but we can say, definitively, what he is doing is wrong and shows intense disregard for the well-being of his children in favor of his own desires. That makes him a shitty father and a shitty human.\n\nCould the mother be shitty too? Maybe. But nothing here suggests she is. And saying \"but the motherrrrr\" just shows where your biases lay.", "And how is that relevant to this case where the court has repeatedly found no violence by the father?", "Mom can be manipulative and be good at it. She can make the kids question their own feelings about dad, make shit up and gaslight the children, promise them the world. Kids want to love and trust mom, why wouldn’t they believe her?", "Sounds like another anti-vaxx similarity. No one will believe me, I am the victim here.\n\nI am not saying you are anti-vaxx or you are intending for your comments to sound like a similar pattern of theirs but it is fascinating to watch.\n\nI wish you would show sources, you must have them handy if you have done this before.", "If the child refuses to see their father, then they should be able to refuse to see their father, even if they've been lied to by the mother. This isn't something the court should be intervening on. The divorce dispute is between the mother and father, and the judge abused her powers by holding the children in contempt for exercising what little control they have in their own lives.\n\nShe literally threatened to leave them in juvie until they graduate highschool over this.", "Dracula in charge of the blood bank, love it.", "I was brainwashed by my mom against my dad and stepmother.\n\nAt the time I favored her because she let me stay up as late as a wanted and eat junk. But as an adult I realize she is deeply flawed and my dad just tried to be a normal parent.", "The reason it's big in the Men's Rights movement to claim Parental Alienation is that many men turn to the Men's Rights movement after being victims of Parental Alienation.", "Then punish the parent not the children.", "[Vindication and it feels so good](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/)\n\nNot could, IS. Not maybe, IS.\n\nI am so biased, I not only thought critically, I delved further into it. Damn me and my facts and reasoning, if only I read just watched the video and let my feelings do the rest.\n\nBoth these parents fucking suck, neither cares for the children, the reason she didn't step in is the exact reason you lambasted the father, next time I'd start with levying that criticism at BOTH of them.", "Thanks!", "People think they are teams ... we are doomed !!!!!!!@@!", "How is putting them in Juvie better than being with their parents? At least put them with a relative.", "Ah yes republicans are the only corrupt politicians unlike democrat saints like Cuomo.\n\nI wouldn’t necessarily trust the data on this as representative of corruption but [60% (28 of 47) of federal officials convicted of corruption offenses were democrats](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_officials_convicted_of_corruption_offenses). Real talk though there’s shitty people on both sides so you shouldn’t blindly think one side is good people and the other side is evil people. That attitude leads to terrible people in office, e.g. one of our more recent presidents who was considered a saint by his side despite regardless of actions\n\nEdit. Corrected link", "The kid said he was violent, how does anyone know for sure except for the kids? Just because there was no evidence in court means nothing.", "BONE!", "As someone from the great state of Illinois let me tell you corruption is rated E for everyone. Pick the flavor that you deem less harmful", "Me think good, they think bad", "Honestly a dad that would push that has already ruined any type of any relationship he might have had with his kids. Kids aren't stupid and for a court and parent to treat them like that and for their own father to allow this to happen just how crap of a dad be is.", "How people like this get to be 'judge\"? Unbelievable and then Americans think they live in the land of free. Any person talking and threatening my children like that will suffer the consequences.", "Don't worry dude, u/sabrefudge concluded that the father is abusive because:\n\n\\- He is white\n\n\\- He is a male\n\n&#x200B;\n\nJust with that it should be a clear case, #killallmen.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nWhat, divorced fathers being abused? Alienated from their children by their mom? Or having they used against him? NEVER HEARD OF IT, NONONO", "Yes, but what about the kids who are abused? Forcing coparenting on abusive situations ultimately prevents many victims from actually getting away from their abusers. I’ve watched first hand a friend be forced to actively coparent with a physically and mentally and emotionally abusive man. There was no ability for her & her child to actually get out of the abusive situation because family law court believes coparenting should always happen. They also won’t let you move so she was tied to a place hours away from her family and support system. His family has far more money so of course he was eventually able to break her down entirely through protracted and expensive court proceedings and eventually took full control of their child. She’s an entirely shattered person now, all because of him. But money wins in our justice system. \n\nAnd emphasizing coparenting in every situation forces a lot of victims to stay in a bad situation. Abuse victims aren’t going to see having to leave their kids alone with an abuser as a solution. \n\nI understand kids can be turned by one parent against another to lie, but that’s not the only possibility. Plenty of people are abusive and shouldn’t have access to their kids. Saying the court has interviewed him and observed him and there’s no evidence of violence is mind-numbingly absurd to me. Abusers know how to hide their bad tendencies from most of the world.", "So was mine, doesn't mean that's the case here. Doesn't mean it's not. The point is the judge had all sorts of resources available like counseling to get to the bottom of it, but no, let's punish the kids for protecting themselves because one (or possibly both) of their parents is a piece of shit.", "so you can order a person to talk to someone now? and if they dont you can get jailed? \n \nseems...not right", "I wouldn’t be surprised either way.", "I mean one has literally all of the supremacists groups on their side. Although both sides have corruption, only one side openly runs their campaigns with corruption as a platform", "Good fuck that bitch", "You sound religious. Go away, enabler.", "You obviously don't think too good if that's what you got from what is being said.", "Even if that's the case and the kids were being manipulated by the mother, sending them to freaking juvie is most certainly not the way to handle the situation. Children do not deserve to be punished for having trash parents.", "These people are in charge of our freedom.", "And cuomo got punished for his shit. Conservative politicians encouraged an outright insurrection and so far none of them have had any consequences", "His son said he was violent in court dipshit", "If you roll 2 dice and I bet it'll come up 4 or higher, do you think I believe rolling a 2 is impossible?", "What the fuck does rape have to do with this? You men’s rights creeps are insane.", "POV: You take an ignorant shot at Republicans thinking you'll automatically get backed up just because it's Reddit.", "Thats the weird thing, the child said that the father was violent and you have MRA's demanding the kids should be forced to spend time with their dad and praising the judge for throwing two seemingly respectful non-criminal kids in a juvenile detention center.\n\nI'm all for MRA's calling out how often guys get shafted in custody/divorce proceedings but this isn't the case to do so. Hell, id even say it's damaging to all other MRA causes that work on legitimate issues. Even if the father isn't violent (people can lie to judges) its obvious the kids don't want to be around the father at the moment. Forcing them to spend time together isn't going to magically repair the relationship.", "As long as dad breaks the kids toys during his violent temper tantrums and didn't leave marks on the kids themselves, he's in the clear. That's my experience.", "Murder and theft are legal in America depending on the circumstances like civil asset forfeiture or police murders that are rarely punished, for example.", "Totally agree. They need to be held accountable. But mistakenly believing that democrats are and will remain saints will lead to them doing the same things with zero consequences. Just saying we need to be thoughtful about politicians and realize there are good and bad eggs in both parties", "I have and he’s not.", "Can we order this judge to not be such a bitch", "Fetuses are baby people. I hate to break it to you, but you're advocating murder", "braindead", "both are corrupt as hell sadly", "[You dropped this](https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/)", "Exactly. Especially if she’s considered the “loving” parent because she doesn’t force them to do things they don’t want, like put away their toys or eat their broccoli.", "She didn't just threaten them she actually sent the older two to juvenile detention! Why TF were these kids in court to begin with?? This is their parents bull shit. They're children. Wtf", "This is nothing, judges do way worse all the time and RARELY face punishment.", "You'd be incorrect in that assumption. An MRA is basically anyone who champions mens rights.\n\nI'm an MRA. Not a redpill dude or an incel and don't care to be connected to them.\nI became an MRA because I want the same parental rights that my kids mum has. It's that simple.", "Yeah, they usually do evals and what not to support that. Otherwise a parent could just say that and their word is taken for it. \n\nMaybe I just know a lot of shitty women lol.", "I’d read it", "I don't know but you can tell by my posts that it has suitably entertained me with its twists and turns. I started out hating the judge and then kind of understanding why she wanted the kids out of the parents control and in a safe environment (but not agreeing with how she talked to the kids). Then I ran into what looked like a retaliatory firing that was actually an international incident that involved a guy claiming antisemitism in his firing.", "I'm an atheist. I just have a brain.", "No, babies are baby people, that's why we call them babies. Fetuses are collections of cells.", "However, just based on statistics alone I think it is safe to think to myself \"mfer is probably a Republican,\" while I simultaneously go look for the info.", "Pretty sure the black supremacists are not Republicans, so your contention that \"literally all\" are on one side doesn't hold any water.", "That is my belief also", "No, I deferred that decision to the judge, who has the actual record before her. You're the one making guesses and thinking you are automatically correct. You are way too emotionally invested in this if you can't even act like an adult.", "24/7 rent free", "Let's take one person's rushed, uninformed decision against plenty of people who would notice such patterns of abuse and neglect.", "These \"Judges\" get there by doing favours to people in power positions they are a mafia and hardly represent meritocracy. I laugh every time Americans think they have fair judicial system or that they live \"free\". No suspension? LOL what a travesty.", "I do, and when certain parties are pointed out as systemic buyers immediately questions of antisemitism are raised. Meanwhile the military industrial complex laughs its way to the bank as it has for the past 75 years.", "Are you talking specifically about this court case? Or MRA twisting courts in general?\n\nIf it's the former, I would clarify that as it seems like you're talking in general terms.", "Ah but you see, they decided she’s a “good judge who had a bad day” and decided to threaten children on her little power trip. \n\nNo good judge has a bad fucking day, I can’t believe they actually said that. Literally the point of being a judge is to be able to always make impartial decisions.", "Wow the children said the father is violent! That’s really mind blowing !", "I was 6 when my mom lost custody of me to my grandma. She would fall asleep every time she had me, or just not bother to get up to get me at all. I'm 29 now and our relationship is still rocky. I'm still dealing with the trauma her neglect in those first 6 years caused. I hope that kid is in therapy cause that feeling of worthlessness you feel when your parent can't be assed to give a shit do not go away.", "So based on no evidence at all, you're claiming that a finding of fact by the court is wrong?", "There's a world of information I don't have here.\n\nIs the dad a decent human being (judge's view of him correct)? I have no idea.\n\nAre the kids being 'brainwashed' by the mom? I have no idea. I know such things happen - I have seen that personally, but I do not know if that is this case.\n\nSo what do I know? ONLY drawing on the linked video for information? Warning: this will be making judgements with a limited view of a complex situation based on what the A&E producer of a 5-minute clip has chosen to include. Always be aware of who is choosing what information you see. In this case, there is a presumed want from A&E to produce sensational, viewer-drawing content. This does not make the content false, but should be taken into account with caution.\n\n...\n\nThe judge is saying the kids are brainwashed. Thought experiment time. Let's say everything the judge asserts about the situation is correct. The mom is some horrible monster poisoning the kids against the decent dad - such things do happen. Fine, initial conditions in this hypothetical scenario set.\n\nSo: the kids are victims of brainwashing. Judge response: coerce, punish, and imprison the child victims.\n\nConclusion I can potentially draw: the judge is abusing power over the kids and not treating them like the victims she appears to believe they are, but instead is treating victims with coercion, abuse, and imprisonment.\n\n...\n\nAgain: if I am making calls based on this 5 minute video it is critically important to remember I am only seeing a sliver of the situation which has been chosen by someone else. That someone else is not presumed to be impartial as they have a profit motive to draw viewers. Anger draws viewers. I am not excusing what I saw of the judge's behavior, but I must acknowledge that there is vastly more of this situation I have no knowledge of compared to what I do know from a 5-minute video.\n\nEDIT: this edit is after comments from /u/Falcrist and /u/HelloBello30 (not a result of, just noting chronology). /u/wbrooksga [found and linked](https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqa8hhw/) a [video of an analysis of this case](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5_M47H6GYA) and holy shit is this a giant pile of radioactive stink. This case is beyond messy. The video also holds highly relevant context about the judge's actions, worth a watch.", "What a FUCKING bitch", "They despise him because their mother turned them against him. It's fairly common in divorce proceedings. \n\nI do enjoy that feign of ignorance though because they are certainly telling the truth in a 5 year litigation case with ZERO evidence of what they claim.", "I just hope the family is able to sue for 100 million.", ">Both these parents fucking suck, neither cares for the children\n\nOkay? I never defended the mother, I basically said she was irrelevant. You defended the actions of the father, and that's what I argued against. If you support sending your kids to jail for not having a relationship with you, regardless of the circumstances you're wrong and a piece of shit, and you started this whole thing saying you understood where he was coming from.\n\nThough that article says that she was accused of poisoning them to their father, it doesn't confirm it. The only time it says that is that a \"Father's Rights Group\" agreed with it, though I can't imagine they'd have any bias. But again, irrelevant.", "Rod Blagojevich (D) was recorded on a call doing something illegal and Illinois Democrats led the impeachment\n\nDonald Trump (R) was recorded on a call doing something illegal and national Republicans protected him\n\nThe Republican party is more corrupt than the Illinois Democrats, which is a fucking ridiculous, but true, statement", "Love that! Rated “E” for “Everyone.” SO accurate for IL.", "Yes, some women's do put some words in child's mouth, but in this case, the older child says her father is too violent is the reason she don't talk to him.", "Because the case had been going on for 8 years with constant monitoring by the courts. Any incident would have been documented and investigated.", "I doubt it, unfortunately. Need to go before a judge for that...", "Dad had an opportunity to earn some respect and missed it; \"I want to see my kids but they're is no way you are putting them in juvie like this.\"", "Holy Shit!", "So if Israel wants to prevent someone from being out on trial they can send a letter saying 'please put this man on trial we think he's a criminal' and after that anyone who tries to investigate the man will be guilty of colluding with Israel?", "Horrific. A few people I knew and two people I considered friends in my early teens were sent to juvey for nothing crimes. Turns out the judge was taking kickbacks for kids he sent there. \n\nNone of them were ever the same. \n\nJudges who do stuff like threaten children deserve the worst punishments.", "What a great false equivalency. They are divorced, whether they were not is completely irrelevant. Your point has literally no relevancy to the situation at hand. \n\nDo we know there are no apparent good reasons? They say the abuse claims are unsubstantiated, that doesn’t mean they aren’t true. It means they haven’t been proven in court. Given the children’s persistence, I’m inclined to at least believe they have reason not to want to maintain a relationship with their father. \n\nShe literally told children with separated parents she is demanding they have a relationship with their father. A court can’t demand that. Even assuming she was correct, that the mother had tricked these children, the way she handled the situation was so brain dead and hostile that it completely trumps any good will she could’ve had. There is no level on earth that justifies a judge threatening children the way she did, even if she was originally in the right.", "After Trump I hold zero respect for the entire justice system…I guess justice was part of the swamp.", "I know absolutely nothing of this case, but I am divorced with kids. I can tell you a crazy ex wife and a fucked up judicial system can make people do crazy things.", "I don't know about you but spending 17 days in a juvenile detention center would severely warp my life views going forward.", "My parents divorce was anything but amicable first of all. But what is the mom to do in this case? Tell them to talk to their dad? The kids made it clear in no uncertain terms that they didn't want to talk to him. In fact, they were willing to go to juvie over it. I would imagine they would have to have an extremely valid reason to not want to talk to him if juvie is on the line. It sounds like the mom was letting them have their visits, but the kids didn't want anything to do with him. Otherwise the judge would be scolding the mother for not allowing the visits, rather than the kids for not wanting to talk to him.", "What how is it a judges place to do any of that!? You are out of your mind if you are falling for any of their crap!", "This is stuff is why I never spoke up as a kid. I knew that not only would no one believe me, I also would have been maligned and made out to be a liar and a troublemaker who was purposefully acting out against her \"loving christian parents\". I even have a permanently scarred skull bone from the concussion he gave me. But they would've said that it could've come from anywhere and that I was lying.", "Couldn't help but laugh at the Charles Manson thing, she well and truly lost the plot.", "Whose morals? What _higher authority_? How is the detailed codification of morality and enforcement thereof different from laws?", "It's almost impossible to get rid of a judge.", "Odds are far higher that malicious corruption that directly harms people because of who they are is Republican though. Democratic corruption is just money stuff for the most part, which is bad but not comparable.", "You'd have to reread what I posted. The wife was abusive to the husband and took the kids from Israel to the US on separation. I wouldn't have made the decision the judge made but I understand where it comes from and I also understand that I don't know the fact finding that went on during the years long litigation. Also means I'm not really going to \"support\" her decisions because I don't have the information to support it. Its just a gut feeling that things were generally bad in the entire environment.\n\nEdit: I will add one more thing, the kids weren't sent to juvie. They were sent to where the state holds kids that were abandoned or their parents failed their rights. What I'm trying to say is this story is really complicated.", "Good human\n**\n ^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback!)", "I haven't seen a street level map yet to be sure, but I think I might end up in that narrow strip of a Congressional district that will run from the St Louis suburbs through Springfield and Decatur to Champaign. What a ridiculous map that it's surrounded on 3 sides by the same district", "Incel alert", "One of the main tenets of republicanism is taking care of yourself first and foremost, so of course they’re more corrupt.", "Oh look. Shithole America strikes again.", "You're not being downvoted because of politics. You're being downvoted because you said something stupid.", "Lady your not Rosa Parks for getting downvoted on Reddit.", "My nephew said his cousin broke the window, not him, his cousin lives 700 miles away.", "Somebody was banging the dad…", "It’s not that deep", "The Democrats wanted trump as president before they would have Bernie. Never forget that", "What the fuck are you talking about?", "If door #2 was the one they preferred, what does that tell her about door #1?", "https://www.forbes.com/sites/patriciafersch/2021/03/29/parental-alienation-as-a-defense-to-allegations-of-domestic-violence-and-allegations-of-child-sexual-abuse/?sh=55b61fb525c3", "Trying to be divisive and then cry persecution when people disagree...are you sure you* aren't the Republican?", "So you punish the kids with jail time for being manipulated?", "Brainwashing simply ISN’T A THING so there you go, no problem.", "But nobody is calling dems saints by any means. It's just more likely that open corruption comes from the right. Not always a correct assumption, but a statistically understandable one.", "\"If the child refuses to see their father, then they should be able to refuse to see their father, even if they've been lied to by the mother. This isn't something the court should be intervening on.\"\n\nWell that's not how life works, brother. It's literally the role of the judge in family court to arbitrate matters of custody. If you want to topple the family court system then lead the vanguard, but what you're talking about is a version of reality we don't live in.\n\nShould a child be able to \"refuse to see\" their parents if the parents aren't divorced? Should children just have absolute agency to abandon their parents if the parents have done nothing criminal and they simply don't like them? You don't have a governmental right to have to like your parents, but you do have rights as a parent to your child.\n\nChildren get temperamental. It's what they do.\n\n\"the judge abused her powers by holding the children in contempt for exercising what little control they have in their own lives.\"\n\nShe held the thirteen year old in contempt for attempting to deceive the courts. If your opinion is that someone should be able to simply accuse someone else of abuse in court simply because you don't want to go to lunch with them, then that's a pretty bad take.\n\nThe threat of Juvie was over the line. I'm not defending everything the judge did. But I'm also not going to pretend that everything the children did is A-ok. People go too far with things, if they know they're vindicated in taking an inch then they start getting loud and going for five inches.\n\nThe judge overreached, but at the core of the issue she was correct. The child needs to spend his custody time with his father. He has that right. He doesn't have to go to lunch. But he does have to go.", "Instead of your ad hominim attack how about you speak to where you feel I am wrong on a principled level? I'm not a Men's Right's advocate. I'm an egalitarian advocate who believes 1. what's in the best interest of the children should win the day. 2. In the case that both parents are suitable equal custody should be the rule. That analogy has a lot to do w this.\n\n It's wrong when a woman's claim of rape is dismissed as though she's making shit up to improve her situation as a reflexive position and it's wrong when the same is done to men who claim PAS. Full stop. Lumping me in w a group I do not associate w or support is like me lumping rape victims in a group of \"crazy women\" who make up stories. It's sexist af and you are being sexist af w your immediate dismissal of PAS and assumption that men who claim it are all wrong.", "Yes. Kids will say they like mom because she doesn’t check on their homework and such", "We could all tell she was going to be awful simply by the haircut, right?", "I’m not a republican, but this is really REALLY cringe worthy.", "\"Black supremacists\" lmfao. Who do you mean exactly, BLM? Which black supremacist groups march in your city?", "What a garbage person. I am biased against judges because they tend to be obtuse like this dumb bitch. That child stood up and said my dad is violent and that’s why I want nothing to do with him and she completely ignored him.", "Imagine finally having the courage to tell a judge about your violent father in a courtroom with the father present then instead of receiving any help the person you asked for help SENDS YOU TO FUCKING JAIL!\n\n(This is assuming the child wasn't coached, but as you said, you can't take that chance)", "Laws are derivative of morals.", "Irrelevant, im laughing at your moronic “its cos he’s a white guy” bullshit when its obvious to everyone else who watched it why its suspected.\n\nAlso the idea that a court not finding him to be violent is conclusive when there wasnt even an investigation or trial is pretty dim.", "It was th stupid slashes the new reddit editor now does. \nHere's a working link that doesn't use archive.org\n\nhttps://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/20607966/Fischer_v_State_of_Michigan_et_al", "Look ill admit dems have theirs as well but to even try and suggest they're even close to equal is just absolute bullshit.", ">Let me guess. Republicans?\n\nNo, the Michigan JTC is nonpartisan, with 4 members being appointed by the various state judicial divisions, 3 members being appointed by the state bar, and only 2 of the 9 members being appointed by the Governor.\n\n>As a woman, I refuse to be silenced anymore. First, they told us they can't get free birth control. Then they told us what we can't do with our body. Now they told us our voice doesn't matter. What's next?\n\nReading articles before commenting", "Brainwashing doesnt exist, and neither is Parental alienation a real thing, according to EVERY REPUTABLE PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION. Minds are not that malleable. So yes, these men are all making up a lie together. Thats not a conspiracy, its just a common tactic. Seriously stop with the bullshit you are spreading nonsense.", "Well in this case [she behaves exactly as I describe her](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/) and both parents continue to fight no matter what because the wellbeing of the children isn't really the tippy top of the priority list. \n\nHere's the thing which irked me from the get go on this story before I read further into it and discovered they were both shitty though. If the judge is correct and brainwashing went on behind the scenes, how does a parent fight against it? How do we prevent it? How do we punish it? Since family court is a part of the judicial system, it really feels like it should be a crime because it basically means no matter which way a custody battle shakes out (like you said, you're still \"allowing\" visits...but you've emotionally assaulted the relationship between the kids and the other parent so that the courts orders amount to nothing) they circumvent the system.", "When you consider how much more corruption is found on the republican side, it's not ignorant at all.", "The crash-course sort of therapy the kids in this case seem to have gone through seems rushed (and the judge's handling of this is suspect), but it's not as bizarre as you may think. Minnesota has its own [infamous version](https://missinginminnesota.com/fact-vs-fabrication/) of this \"parental alienation/fabricated abuse\" story. If you really want to be mad about the family court system, read the book mentioned in the linked site, The Girls Are Gone.", "Well white supremacists don't march in mine, but if you think black supremacists don't exist... idk what to tell you. The entire Nation of Islam, with tens of thousands of adherents, explicitly believes in the superiority of black people, and they are 100% not Republicans.", "Lol you think this kind of thing is a new and recent issue?", "yeah every time someone mentions republican corrutpion theres always the retards with \"the dems are bad too!\" Which they have their issues, but to even suggest they're close at all is just trying to change the point that republicans are by and far the most corrupt.", "You are just saying shit based on how you think things should be NOT HOW THEY ARE. Because you have no idea. Just some “convictions” you made up based on limited info and nonsense emotions. Seriously, STOP.", "A lot of domestic violence can be masked if the offender is smart enough.", "FYI i downvoted you because you somehow made this about you.", "Yeah, I don’t understand where she gets the authority to order the kids to talk to, or have a loving relationship with their father. And even if she somehow does have that authority, how can she think it’s appropriate to use it? I would want her to explain why she feels it is necessary or just for the court to step in in this way.\n\nUltimately a judge’s power here is coercive and I don’t understand how it is helpful to coerce a child into spending time with a parent they don’t want to see.", "It is because we are watching reality TV. They are all doing the show together. They get their scripts and off they go.\n\nIt was our first reality TV practically.\n\nNext came dramatic wrestling.", "can you point to any dem leaders with ties to \"black supremacists\" cause i can point out at least a few republicans with direct ties to white supremacists.", "i'm only downvoting you for that ridiculous edit", "Conservatism, not even once.\n\nThat lady is as brainwashed as it gets and somehow accuses others of it. Oh the irony.", "That's great. But there's been no actual evidence found by the courts in this case and the case has been going on for 8+ years now.", "tHeY AreNt AS bAd!!!11", "Lol and then she throws in the whole \"I'm a woman don't silence me\", as if anyone knew her gender when she made that moronic comment.", "Lmao", "The land of the free lmao", "Upvote! \n\nStay strong ;)", "This is an experience that happens. It happens less, now, and it shouldn't happen at all, but people are people and people can be gross.", "This woman reminds me so much of my Mom that I can't even watch this without wet eyes.", "If you would be OK with your children being jailed for 17 days for not wanting to see you because of a \"crazy ex\"??? ..... You are a bad father. Period. If you mentally and emotionally abuse and betray your children and their trust by throwing them into the system because they don't like you, there is no defense. You deserve them never loving you again at that point.", "No, they exist like any group. But it's silly to think they are the same. They arent getting elected into office, they don't get off scot-free from their corrupt buddies in the government, and they aren't marching with rifles through cities.\n \nBecause they are such a non-player in modern domestic terrorism, I assumed (and still think) you meant BLM/antifa, the boogeyman de jour of the right.", ">the court has repeatedly found \n\nREPEATEDLY\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIrrelevant, im laughing at yourblahblahblah \n\nSaying irrelevant won't change the fact that you are still a dickforbrains.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nAlso the idea that a court not finding him to be violent is conclusive when there wasnt even an investigation or trial is pretty dim.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nAGAIN, *where the court has repeatedly found no violence* , REPEATEDLY. It had several accusations, court has investigated several times, found nothing that backs up their claims, therefore father is not violent. Do you want some fries with your misandry?", "No, he was punished for being a creepy sex pervert, and not even really punished, just pressured to resign. He has never been held accountable for his actions during covid or the benefits he gave his family and friends during the pandemic.", "How do you feel when someone says a child is just making it up when she says her dad is abusive? \n\nLook, parental alienation is real, but one side is lying and you have to say \"I don't know which\" or just dismiss one side and your getting mad for people dismissing one but not another", "\"I couldn't imagine that when faced with door number 1, parenting time. And door number 2 jail. They would pick door number 2.\"\n\nThat should tell you something about the kind of \"parenting\" going on. The kid said his dad was violent. IN COURT. And while it was unsubstantiated by evidence, we've gotta remember it's a child. Not an adult. Not someone who has understanding of how to seek help for that sort of thing.\n\nA proper judge would have said \"Would you feel better if the meetings were supervised? If someone you trust or even appointed by the court ensures your safety?\"\n\nThat's what a fucking judge does. That's what someone who is looking out for the children's well being does. Get a mediator, a family therapist involved. Don't punish a child in an already difficult position for doing the only thing they can to have some kind of control over their situation.", "> Pretty sure the black supremacists are not Republicans,\n\nPretty sure Black Supremacists don't even exist actually (definitely not organized or scaled like the White Supremacists) ... and if they do, they definitely aren't getting compliments like \"I love you\"'s and \"You're such good people\", or getting appointed to work in Trump's White House like the GOP does with their WHITE supremacists.", ">That's great.\n\nUh... no. That's actually very sad.", "Holy victim complex", "You ain't black unless you vote democrat.", ">Me think good\n\nI might have some unfortunate news for you.", "Orr its the excuse they all use?", "What the fuck are you talking about? What a psycho.", "The same courts that put the kids in juvenile detention because they wouldn't have lunch with that same dad?\n\nYeah, I trust them entirely. Lmao", "Her comment isnt even at the back of the thread.", "Yes, I (a man) am being sexist about men. This just sounds like a whole lot of projection, dude. There’s nothing to indicate PAS here. It’s just a crazy Karen judge drunk on power.", "With the constant lack of justice in our justice system, it’s only a matter of time til we see the next “Killdozer”", "No democrats appear to go after their own...if this is the case. I see democrats go after their own, maybe not enough. At least recently?\n\nI wonder sense really both parties have humans in them they all have roughly an equal number of assholes.\n\nHowever, I would need to research in the US to see a rough number of convictions or whatever per party. This would be interesting to study.", "https://www.businessinsider.com/rashida-tlaib-wrote-column-louis-farrakhans-blog-2019-2\n\nNow the question is will you attack the validity by arguing Tlaib isn't a \"leader\" of the Democratic party, or that writing for his blog in 2006 isn't a sufficient \"direct tie.\" I mean I could point out that NOI gives generously to the Democratic party and as a group vote completely in the party line, and that members of the largely Democratic black congressional caucus downplays his virulent antisemitism whenever they can. But that probably won't be enough for you to reconsider your exceptionally narrow works view.", "No they're not Republican. Not Democrats either.", "Sorry fixed the link above. It’s not statistically understandable as 60% (28 of 47) federal officials convicted of corruption are democrats. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_officials_convicted_of_corruption_offenses). It’s emotionally understandable considering what happened on Jan 6th and [recency bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recency_bias), but statistically, you don’t have a strong footing here", "The people pretending parental alienation is more common then asshole dads.", "Gotta use your identity as a weapon. You wont respond back if I gas light you into thinking you're a racist.", "I defended the actions of the father because it's normal, and I held both parents to that normal standard. Everyone replying and downvoting like they expect the guy to be some hero isn't being genuine or understanding to him, or any parent (man or woman) who would fight for their kids. If it was normal to sacrifice, family and divorce courts (basically custody over possessions and pets) wouldn't be so full of cases all the time. \n\nI took a leap and rather than believe the A&E produces, didn't suspect the judge of being the bad guy, but maybe having a point which lead me to think about things from the fathers point of view. Which is that the mother has the kids, they talk to her, if she brainwashed them...she won, she circumvented the judicial court and basically stole custody. Not cool. \n\nIn this case it's a guy though, so I understand the accusation of bias, but that's because it generally seems like they have to fight harder.", "Americans are such disgusting pigs.", "People likely (rightfully) assume it's corruption because of Republicans likely given Trump appointed like 250 judges.", "> I wouldn’t necessarily trust the data on this representative of corruption but 60% of federal officials convicted of corruption offenses were democrats.\n\nYeah not sure about stats for this stuff ... by far the most White House related convictions in the past 50 years have been GOP though ... and it's not hard to remember all the big GOP Corruption (with convictions) cases (Watergate, Iran Contra, Trump's umpteen appointees that have been convicted, etc.). These were corruptions LED by GOP PRESIDENCIES themselves.\n\nDems, not so much ... and with Clinton, the Dems helped punish him, rather than covering it up - can we think of any GOP prosecutions that have been supported by the GOP leadership rather than being obstructed?", "The judge says the mother brainwashed the kids into hating their dad. That is text book PAS. And yes, as a POC I know a self hating black man when I see one. There's also self hating gay men in the closet so it's not a stretch to say there are men hating men out there. I work w some, as a matter of fact.", "He resigned, start thinking more critically.", "Which conservatives have stepped down due to corruption/assault in the last few decades? Any of them?\n\n Biden even supported the independant investigation into the allegations. And to top it off, \"On October 28, 2021, a spokesman for the state court system announced that Cuomo would be charged with a misdemeanor sex crime in the Albany City Court.\"\n \nIs it still a slap on the wrist? Yes. But losing you job and getting charged with a crime is not a \"both sides\" thing.", "No you're downvoted because your tribalism prevents you from seeing reality.", "But also very much the fault of the endemic corruption that does go on within the GOP. You ever step in front of a speeding train expecting it to stop? Or do you _know_ that it’s not going to stop and just turn you into so much mist and mulch? Yeah sure there’s an outside chance it will stop, but that would be the exception to the rule. Like an honest Republican.", "Wow, one of these in the wild! snaps a pic\n\nEh, on second thought.", "Trigger Warning: DV/Child Abuse\n\n&nbsp;\n\nI just want to say that I've been through this personally as a child, and I can promise you that allot of these claims about children being brainwashed are total bullshit. My father was VERY abusive, and DV was a common thing in our household. He started out with custody on the weekends, and things actually got worse for us as our mom wasn't there to protect us anymore. \n\n&nbsp;\n\nWe had pictures of us being black and blue, and the court still wouldn't take action. Eventually they were forced to bring in this person who was supposed to be neutral, and interview us about it. She told the court we were being brainwashed. \n\n&nbsp;\n\nPartially this was because we were from a small GA town, and everyone, including the judge knew my father as \"a good country boy.\" I think part of it though was just that allot of the stuff he did was hard to believe. \n\n&nbsp;\n\nIt wasn't unusual for me to be tied up in his basement. Another common thing he would do is beat us, and then try to force us to go on camera saying my mom did it. If we refused he'd give us another beating. He also wasn't afraid to use \"gentler\" tactics like promising us new toys if we would go on camera talking shit about our mother. \n\n&nbsp;\n\nHe was a total psycho so once he started lying about something he would actually start believing his own bullshit. This made him VERY convincing to other people.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nI think allot of people out there don't understand how crazy some people are, and what sort of crazy shit they are willing to do. I'm not saying brainwashing never happens, but if you have 4 kids who are black and blue, and telling you who did it maybe the courts should believe them.", "So is Hillary Clinton. 😂", "MRAs wish that they had even a fraction of the influence required to do that. They're mostly just a bunch of annoying clowns.\n\nClaims by either parent should be taken seriously and investigated - at least to a degree. Doesn't mean that the courts have been brainwashed from either side to just believe them and give them custody. I've seen both - where someone brainwashed their children to hate the other parent and where someone claimed that the children were being brainwashed even though they weren't.", "MURICA! Number 1 in childhood incarceration!", "That could be true, but we don’t have any sources and I’d be interested to know. Not going to do this myself but feel free to look through the Wikipedia article on the corrupt officials mentioned and to see if it is true that democrats bring cases against their own while republicans do not. I’d be interested in learning the answer regardless of what it is", "I didn't at all say they were the same. Clearly and plainly white supremacy is more dangerous. But to suggest that ALL the supremacists, \"literally\" all, are Republicans not only downplays the existence of these other radical group, it falsely suggests that one political ideology is the only breeding ground for supremacists which is not at all the case.\n\nAnd no, you assuming I was talking about BLM is far more telling about you than me. I was talking about groups like NOI, which has more members than the KKK, the Black Hebrews, the Moors, and other groups like it.", "I hear what you’re saying, but having your name dragged thru the mud as being abusive to children is not exactly fun. Whether she admits it or not, she regrets what she did. \n\nBut yes she deserved the suspension. Not to mention how stupid her idea was. Mandating kids talk to their dad lmao. \n\nShe’s also obviously quick to anger and that’s a problem for judges or anybody in power", "Who?", "Yet, wasn't there a paper that came out showing Dems back their candidate even more than Repub voters in the midst of a scandal? Let me find it. \n\nOverall, this thread is a clear cut example of that. Turning a clear example pd corruption and a shit judge who should be canned, into a political argument. We're all fucked.\n\nFtr, I'm a progressive...fuck being a Dem or Repub. Just because ones sprays on perfume doesn't convince me they aren't both dogs shit, due for a substantial overhaul in leadership and representation.", "You forgot the even worse part: \n\nDonald Trump then pardoned Rod Blagojevich and the Republicans said nothing.\n\nThat’s when we realized the Republican Party had completed its transformation from political organization to crime family.\n\nThe DOJ needs to RICO these criminal thugs now, because the next time they claw their way back into power you better believe they’re going to finish the job of tearing down what remains of US democracy to replace it with a Putin-style mafia state.", "Republican elected officials are 8x more likely to end up in prison than democrats. Yes, there is corruption on both sides, there’s just around 8 times more on one side than the other, so the assumption above is actually a really safe bet.", "I'm a democrat as well and its pretty obvious there is corruption but only one side is actually praised and rewarded for blatant corruption while democrats resign from their positions when they're called out. Let's not pretend there isn't a divide there.", "Unless you live in a large metro area, the idea of assessing a child to see if he or she was brain washed into hating a parent sounds like a difficult goal.\n\nThis sounds like a good business to get into. Market is wide open. You will do 3 a year in bugtussle Ark. You will get rich in a city.\n\nHowever the judge needed to secure outside assessment.", "I agree laws aren’t inherently moral, the people writing them are though.", "ALL? PA happens often. It can happen to mums too.\n\nEdit: I know 2 dads personally that have took their own lives because of parental alienation. The fact you are trying to pretend it's not even a thing and make it seem like all people who report it are liars is disgusting.", "Man this shit happens in all courts. Stop trying to make everything left and right.", "States easily ruin families, education, and emotions of the kids involved in a lot of cases.", ">\tYeah not sure about stats for this stuff … by far the most White House related convictions in the past 50 years have been GOP though\n\nYou said you don’t have stats… but then stated a stat. Would be really interested to see the data that supports or refutes the 50 year stat", "What a cunt", "Mfs wanna be oppressed so bad", "If I were the kids the only words to my \"father\" would be \"fuck you abuser\" and \"fuck that judge\" over lunch.", "What investigation?", "aS A wOmAn", "Start by including PAS and PAD in the DSM-V and training psychologist how to spot it in children. Then let the children talk to trained mental health experts who can make a determination on the abuse claims. Also, a doctor should do a full medical workup on the child. I was abused as a child and have scares and held broken bones that will remain a testament to the abuse until my bones have turned to ash. \n\nNow not all abuse is physical, to be sure, but that's where trained shrinks come in. IMHO, we shouldn't look at rape victims and say \"some women have lied about rape so we're going to discredit all rape victims unless they prove their case.\" Some men have lied about PAS. This doesn't mean it should be instantly discredited when a man brings it up. The fact that there's hard scientific data to shows it exist and bc of politics it is kept out of the DSM-V is criminal, IMHO.", "Its called a stereotype for a reason. Its ignorant, sure, but compared to a long list of ignorance you're wasting your time clutching pearls because some woman feels righteous vindication for triggering a few meat hams.\n\nWhat else do you want people to do if a duck keeps quacking? Tell them geese quack too? They're used to hearing \"Its all a ploy by the geese to cancel ducks!\" but now its \"bUt bOtH qUaCk!\". \n\nThey honk. Its still a bit of the same annoying bullshit, but I see ducks quacking way more than geese honking.\n\nIts been an amazing experience. I have actively been watching narrative changes in my own adjacent social circles I lurk in.\n\nIf you know, then you know I'm not talkin to you", "How the fuck can a judge order children to talk to their father?\n\nIs free speech and lack of speech not a thing?\n\nShe should be punished and disbarred for constitutional violations.", "I wonder how it's even constitutional to order someone to have a speaking relationship. Freedom of speech means freedom to not speak too.", "The judge is crazy! Who gives a fuck what she said?", "Parental Alienation - it’s child abuse", "Having been in this same situation with my own children while my kids mother did this brainwashing with my kids I support her 100%. It feels horrible to force your kids to spend time with you like pulling teeth the other parent has all the power to make it amicable.", "You're all over the map here, what exactly is your point ? And calm the fuck down it's hard to take you seriously.", "I think next they’re actually grafting aprons onto women’s torsos that shock you if you leave the kitchen during times set by a male-only app", "I don't think he meant support groups for men, I think he was referring to groups like Men Going Their Own Way which pretend to be support groups. What they actually are is basically misogynistic echo chambers (MGTOW in particular tends to sound like that guy who still randomly goes on rants about how not angry he is about his divorce five years ago). Guys like that started calling themselves \"men's rights activists\" as a petty jab at women's rights activists, which often causes confusion because it sounds like something much different than it actually is. Real support groups help people deal with their issues, groups like MGTOW actively encourage people to let those wounds remain open and fester.", "Disgusting woman shouldn’t be around court or children. Shame on her.", "what a nightmare. It's impossible to know what's true and untrue in this from reading articles online and I hope people recognize that", "💯", "My father never hit me. He was, however, awful enough for me to never speak to him again by the age of 13. That’s my right, and always has been. I would have taken the jail time if my case had gotten bungled this fucking bad.", "Nice, you took a shitty category of people, made a stance on them and took an equally shitty stance on the opposing side.\n\nCongrats you're a fucking hypocrite.", "Yes. If you want to boil it down to that. Republicans are objectively abhorrent people.", "There are adults that get brainwashed every single day to break off contact with their families and friends. You're never too old to be brainwashed. Anyone with a certain degree of power over you can do it if they're malicious enough. It's surprisingly easy.", "The judge was wrong for saying what she did to the kids but that doesn't discredit everything she said. Also, stop using terms like \"crazy\" to identify a female you disagree w. If this judge was a male it would be he was \"mean\" or \"rude\" or \"abusing power\" but a it's a female so she's \"crazy.\" That's sexist af. A rational woman is capable of abusing power or making wrong choices. To reduce her to \"crazy\" is sad in 2021.", "Err, I think you're confused as to what the person you're responding to is saying.\n\nRegardless of whether or not the Mom is \"bad\" and the Dad is \"good\", or if the judge is \"right\", that has absolutely zero relevance to the judge being insane for ordering the kids to have a healthy relationship with their dad and threatening them with juvi if they don't ...", "idea how his lawsuit against these pricks is going?", "Lol and was imprisoned for 12 years*", "You'd be surprised the reach of powerful violent rich white men (woody allen)", "I'm a hard left liberal and I downvoted you.", "No, I just don't want to get into the argument about Parental Alienation and the judiciary's ability to police that that's already happening in another thread. There's an insult department already, we don't need another. Like I said, I don't agree with how the judge handled anything with what they said to the kids.", "How so? Read my links and get back to me", "She’s a woman. You can’t silence her /s", "cringe\n\n\n/krinj/\n\n\nverb\n\n\nbend one's head and body in fear or in a servile manner.\n\n\n\"he cringed** away from the comment\"", "Illegal has a wide range. Jay-walking is illegal, and harms almost no one, then there is running an elder abuse ring to prey on them for money. I am not sure what either did in this case but holding a lit zippo and setting a house on fire both are starting fires, one of more serious than the other.", "You can’t force kids to engage. Legally custody wise, as long as the kids show up for custody time- that’s all they have to do. If they choose not to speak or hug etc- that’s their right. \n\nKids have body autonomy and rights too. He is welcome to punish them during his custody time too. As long as it’s not abusive. Like he could say “if you won’t talk to me then you will spend the weekend in your room alone. No tv or video games.”\n\nBut that’s the extent of his power. He can’t make them talk. If they won’t talk or show affection, then clearly he’s doing something wrong. \n\nInstead of forcing them he should try to be a better parent. A loving parent would never let their kids be institutionalized.", "That didn't answer my question. I'm fine with investigating claims of parental alienation, but you are dismissing a claim of abuse while mad olthat other people are dismissing a claim of abuse", "No, I would call a male judge crazy for this shit too. I'm not a f'n sexist dude. I don't know why I have to prove that just because I pointed out this case has nothing to do with rape and you're a creep for bringing it up.", "Laws are a direct attempt to codify morality. \n\n\nJust because there isn't a law today doesn't mean their can't be one tomorrow.", "\"I never thought any person faced with door #1 - parenting time, and door #2 - children's village, that had been explained to them over and over that this could happen, would pick door #2.\"\n\nUmmm... wat?\n\nFirst off, they're kids. Kids aren't rational. You work family court, you should know that.\n\nSecond off, that's a fucking red flag. If you offer someone something benign and something terrible, and they pick terrible... that's probably suggesting the benign thing isn't as benign as you thought it was.\n\nI always hated family court. Grew up in that shit. And in my case it was done in the opposite direction with my father made out to be the demon. I completely understand father's rights people wishing family courts would stop doing that because traditionally that's what family court has done.\n\nBut THIS is not the way. Flipping the table is not how you solve the problem. Removing any bias is how you stop the problem.\n\nJesus fucking christ.", "[An article summarizing the divorce/custody case in the video. ](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/)\n\nHoly shit, those poor kids. Aside from the judge's outrageous decisions, it really sounds like the kids are being pushed and pulled into tough places by this acrimonious divorce. The case has taken so long that their youngest is almost 18 years old. That's wild.", "Notice how you had to act tarded because you couldn’t address the example brought up?", "Me think do stuff that your think wish it could \nLUDA!", "You told the person you responded to to reread what you wrote, which can only be construed as justifying the judge's actions based on context.\n\nContext that is irrelevant to her actions, regardless of whether or not they're relevant to the family case.", "I’m a woman and I just downvoted you. I’m not a Trump supporter (libertarian) but my father a democrat was abusive as hell to me. So yeah stop lumping people into groups because the world doesn’t work that way.", "Even if the mother is a horrible monster the judge was still out of line in how she addressed the kids. She was threatening them with jail for not loving their dad. She's a piece of fucking shit.", "What a fucking disaster.", "That’s most liberals current mentality though. They try to blame everything on “da Trumpers!!!!111”", "That’s ridiculous, the children are victims in their parents bullshit and the THEY get sent to jail. What the actual fuck?", "Lol yep democrats are so woke", "Hope that was /s", "I'm saying there's context to support removing the kids from the mother's influence. There's not context to support how she treated the kids or talked to them. Originally I would not have been even close to having that conclusion. Other posts are better to argue about that though.", "Now I am sure that you are a dickforbrains.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nA freaking thread about an 8 year case with links news and people following the case and you didnt bother to read one of them.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nsigh", "It's called an analogy. I am comparing how ppl are sexist to women when being dismissive of their claims of rape, just like ppl are sexist to men when they automatically dismiss their claims of PAS/D. There's nothing creepy about it at all. It's egalitarian. Creepy is labeling a judge who has shown no signs of mental derangement or breaking from reality crazy bc you disagree w her actions. Crazy has been used to hold back women for a long time, just like MAGA types did w Hilary just bc they disagreed w her. Where has this judge shown a break from reality? Where does she look like she should be hospitalized and placed on medication for her break from reality. She hasn't. She let her power go to her head and acted inappropriatly. That's it.", "Dad isn’t a good man. He literally allowed his kids to be sent to prison for not talking to him. However misguided the kids reason for that is a good parent wouldn’t wish prison on their own children. Also, dipshit judge, they did choose door number two. Perhaps you don’t understand what that choice really meant, and that’s why you couldn’t imagine it.", "Celebrities getting cancelled left and right these days for past actions . Yet these corrupt people in power get bailed out by each other constantly.", "Democrats didn’t #believeallwomen when it came to Biden and Tara Reide", "I'm neither Democrat, nor Republican, nor American, and while my opinion doesn't matter in that I'm not American, it should be more objective. Both your political parties are shit and mostly corporatist, but the Republicans are far worse. In practically every respect. That includes corruption. And I've studied the United States as a morbid hobby for well over 20 years.", "Regarding your edit, how is your gender relevant?", "What a vile husk.", "These parents seem like awful, vindictive people. These children are being put through hell.", "That’s what I thought watching too. This in no way excuses the judges behavior. She got off with a far more lenient penalty for her gross misconduct than she should have. Simultaneously why did neither parent speak up to stop this madness? It makes both of them look awful. Neither one bat an eye that their older children are being sent to juvenile detention by a power hungry judge.", "Amazing, reddit really does believe American politics is super hero Democrats vs evil villan Republicans", "According to another article, the lawyers dropped them.", "I think what the judge is claiming is poisoning the well. The mother may claim the father was violent, and bring it up enough for a long enough period the children believe he is violent. There may have never been a violent act but if the only thing you hear about your father is these lies she tells them, you are brainwashed into thinking he is violent. I actually know a case where the mother was the abusive person, and continue to be with her children, but brainwashed them into hating their father who was removed from the picture due to false allegations. He fought for 12 years and had to give up due to running out of money meanwhile she had rich parents back her. It wasn't until recently now that the oldest is in his 20s that he finally got to spend time with his son after 16+ years.", "Do you think courts are infallible or something?\n\nWhy do you believe the court over the children? Because women are evil?", "Nah, Republicans do indeed circle the wagons more than Dems. Not by any sort of astronomical margin, but it’s definitely measurable.\n\n[Here is one article from 2019](https://morningconsult.com/2019/02/13/gop-voters-more-likely-than-democrats-to-look-past-scandals-embroiling-own-party/), but you can find some more quick some savvy searching.", "Biden is too senile to be racist.", "Hahaha i am 15 and am very politic", "I have completely cut my father off and he never laid a finger physically on me. Oh but the verbal and emotional abuse left deep deep deep scars. I’m a very broken 41 year old woman.", "I always thought whoever knowingly sends a child to an abusive home, who has the power to stop it, should have to stay the night there.", "I've not seen that, but I've got one dude going a bit nuts. The thing is I legit can't tell which side he's on he's so irate lol.", "Also prostitutes! Sometimes drugs!", "Honestly, if a child didn't want to see one of the parents they shouldn't have to. The right of the child to choose who they spend time with is more important than the right of a parent to see the child. At least in my opinion.", "I was doing a word play off of a Ludacris song. So, yea.", "Is this an SNL skit? Because Cecily Strong could pull off that character simply by doing her \"drunk girl at party nobody wants to talk to.\"", "i am the......... LLLLAAAAWWWW !!!!......I think !", "\"Educating\". Exactly. Female judges are too often just narcisstic mothers-of-the-world who think they are doing God's work. And when they're wrong, they're not wrong, because of reasons (excuses) that are always readily available and choosen not by merit but ladder-climbing and money.", "\"I ordered you to have a loving relationship with your father.\"\n\nThat's insane. That's manipulation. That's crazy. That's a judge drunk on power, torturing children who would rather sit in jail than be anywhere near their abusive father.", "The difference is democrats face consequences while the QOP rewards criminality and corruption, as long as it helps them win.", "Man, I really miss the era of A&E when they played fantastic arts and entertainment instead of sensationalist stuff like this.", "Louis Farrakhan is definitely 100% a Democrat, and a mega donor to boot.", "It's fucking terrible when it becomes I want x to punish them when the x is children.", "Apparently not...they didn't do their job if so.", "I am a woman and mother. I actually think men’s rights have a point in most cases. Parental alienation does exist. Some women do punish the man by turning the kids against him because they are bitter he doesn’t want her anymore. \n\nBut some men are also just abusive. \n\nIt goes both ways.\n\nYou gotta cess out which case it is", "Aaaand enter deflection away from discussion of corruption to Joe Biden being an idiot. Congrats. You did it...", "Except we did, but we were stuck voting between two sexual predators - one was proud of it and admitted it openly.\n \nWe voted the lesser of the evils and y'all have such a hard time not living in a binary black and white political spectrum. This was damage control, compared to the golden calf the right obsesses over", "It could go either way in Oakland. Just well of yups that don’t want the world to mix with family life.", "What an evil crazy bitch", "Judge uses Hellish Rebuke.. it’s not very affective", "Oh come now. Don't pretend. Wasn't she supposed to be in jail 5 years ago now? Or do we chock up that lie to the 'DeEp StAtE'?", "The judge is pretty convinced they’ve been lied to and manipulated for so long they’re “brainwashed”.\n\nAnd out of the three of us, the judge has a lot more information with this family, and experience with manipulative sick parents. You and me, we’re very limited here.\n\nI’m gonna side with the judge for that reason. Let’s just hope whatever is happening for that family now is the right thing for the kids.", "jesus, imagine getting a Karen as your judge?", "You said it yourself, writing a blog in 2006 is a stretch.", "There is the 2 sides are equal bullshit narrative. Yes both sides do shitty things. No good faith actor can claim a side is free of evil. But to make the claim that they are the same is disingenuous. One side is worse and its not only ok to acknowledge that, it's more reprehensible to ignore that fact.", "The fact that dems are the \"big tent\" party that attempts to incorporate way more ideologies/identities basically bears that out as well. Republicans are easier to center because they all get their talking points from the same sources. Dems are too fractured to really get them to agree at the same levels Republicans do.", "Kids will be 18 then they can say fuck the father. He caused so much more mess and ruined their lives. 9 y/o not wanting to talk to their dad because he is violent.. obviously something there that the stupid judge doesn't want to dig into.\n\nNo child therapists involved, just shitty juvi and camp.\n\nI order the judge to rot in hell, if she doesn't she's going to prison for the rest of her life!", "Why do you assume that the court automatically got everything wrong?", "Most liberals say Tara was a liar\n\nI voted libertarian so I am superior I guess. Get on my level.", "Just pointing out you have no idea what the nature of the investigation was", "My father is a violent man and no court has ever found him guilty...", "Assuming corruption comes from Republicans is just pattern recognition.", "As an American, I'm sorry we've created this interesting turd that enraptures your attention.", "Yeah I don't think people who grew up in simple, traditional, loving homes can really conceive of this issue. As a fellow abuse survivor, I don't understand how anyone in that room was keeping their cool while she was speaking. I know when I was 13 I would have been far too surly and emotional to just stand there as the judge forces me to choose between jail and spending time with my meth-addled father. Shit, I feel like if I was walking down the hallway and heard her say that, they'd have me in contempt for interrupting to tell her what a monster she is.\n\nThis woman's judgment is completely misaligned with the good of the people - the good of children. I'm disgusted it was even a debate as to whether or not she did something wrong.", "That's sad and all. But in this case, the case has been going on for 8 years and no evidence has been shown to corroborate the claim of violent abuse. And yes, if you go google it, there's been case workers involved over the years.", "\"Honestly, if a child didn't want to see one of the parents they shouldn't have to.\"\n\nBut that isn't the law. \n\nWhat I would then ask you is: what if a child didn't want to see both of their parents? Should a child be able to completely abandon their parents if they don't want to see them even if the parents have done nothing criminal?\n\n\"The right of the child to choose who they spend time with is more important than the right of a parent to see the child\"\n\nI just want to clarify, because language matters in this case. Who you want to spend time with as a child is not a right. That's just an opinion. A preference. The latter is a right.", "They still throw them a bone. Also the progressives on the left are the only political party that shows they care about people versus moderates and the right wing fuck fest.", "What a fucking trash human being.", "Blagojevich was trying to sell Obama's Senate seat. Pretty corrupt. Trump was recorded talking to the Georgia State officials to get the election results changed. To find \"additional\" votes for him. Also corrupt. Both pretty shitty individuals. Send both of them to prison to rot.", "I have no evidence either besides what I experienced.", "These responses make you come off like a sociopath. We are talking about young children.", "no it isn't, it's a safe bet lol.", "Well \"morals\" is a very shaky concept on its own.\n\nTo some, \"morals\" means listening to whatever your parents say. To others, it's listening to whatever God says. To some more still, it's listening to whatever YOU say for YOURSELF. \n\nIMO, the only morality that should be considered in justice is whatever provides the least amount of suffering for those involved. Unfortunately, people who believe they are justified in their actions are capable of administering a lot of suffering.", "You sure are being silenced with your 200 upvotes. Stop playing victim.", "Vaccine passports", "Would you want your son threatened into going with you? If what you say is true he is clearly the victim. As such, Would you threaten and demean a victim in the hopes it got you the outcome you wanted.\n\nI sympathize with your plight, but I also know what it is like to be the child in a messy divorce. That judge attacked the true victims of this case... that is NEVER an acceptable outcome.", "Uhh huh. You realize Trump brought several cases to the courts regarding the election and he lost all of them or nearly all of them. Youry going to say the entire justice system of the US is tainted due to Trump even though they didn't help him steal the election? Use your brain and stop repeating things you read online.", "Sorry I disagree with the parties are exactly the same. \n\nLets take a look at Obamacare. Not a perfect law at all and definitely needs improvement.\n\nIt started out as a public option proposed by progressive democrats, it was then changed to be a corporate handout by moderates , and then it wasn't voted on at all by Republicans. So for this example Republicans were okay with Health insurance companies spending all of their money on advertising and salaries in which Obamacare stopped it. They were also okay with refusing service for pre-existing services which Obamacare stopped. \n\nSo yes when you look at the forest it's relatively the same between Democrats and Republicans but they aren't the same.", "Family court just need to be abolished. The state has no right dictating this shit. They've ruined more lives than they've helped mend.", "Morbid hobby is a good phrase for it, lol\n\nDo you have any predictions for season 2022?", "I am glad that you recognize that there is a lack of information, but your interpretation that the judge's response is also based on a lack of information. You don't know if the judge offered other solutions or tried a different approach, you just saw the tail end of the interaction and assumed that's all that happened.", "Do you think the deep state isn't a real thing?", "Morality is not shakey, it’s pretty well defined.\n\nWhat you’ve defined is that people morals don’t all align, as you said some people’s morals come from god, whereas others may take an atheistic approach.", "Land of the Free where judges lock up kids for not talking to their Dad :D", "You avoided my question.", "I agree. A mother should never do this to her children.", "I fucking HATE this tabloid TV production. And yes, it does undermine the story. Send this boomer shit to your aunt on facebook.\n\nYou've become what you claim to hate, reddit. You're the fucking Karens now.", "Bro that sounds like a heroin addiction.", "Now I am curious to see if you'd feel the same way about if, say, Jim Jordan had written for David Duke's blog. And if not, perhaps you should examine why.", "As an American, I'm not sorry because I don't apologize.", "The age of the child in the video is 13. His siblings are young children, yes. And the threats levied against them are not acceptable (to a degree - some punishment is warranted).\n\nBut 13 years old is old enough to understand that he was supposed to be spending time with his father because of court ordered custody. Old enough to know that he would get in trouble if he didn't. And old enough to try and lie in court to try and justify why he didn't go.\n\nWhere is the line you draw about how old someone can be before you hold them accountable for trying to falsely incriminate someone?", "Ah another person who has never heard of the Nation of Islam.", "Maybe you're getting downvoted for shoe horning a political assumption that's wrong and easy to look up. Or it could be the patriarchy trying to silence you, I dunno.", "I'm sorry", "I'm sure you live an awesome life of no mistakes. Congrats on being perfect. We're all very proud of you.", "This really should make people pay attention to judges that they vote for or do not vote for on the ballot; research is a must!", "Yeah, it's a classic false equivalence to say \"both are corrupt\", as though there's no difference in type or quantity of corruption between them.\n\nRepublican corruption seems to be at an all time high right now, probably because they're losing/have lost some of their important battles nationally, and demographics threatens to change the nature of the country away from their white Christian ideal. That's why trying to steal the vote seemed like a good idea to them.\n\nBut even when things are less dire for them, their desire for regressive policies tends to make their message a tough sell for many, so they have to resort to deceit to push their agenda.", "He resigned after an impeachment investigation that Democrats called for found evidence of what he did and was moving to remove him. He's also still facing criminal charges from a number of the incidents.\n\nSerious question, if you're point is correct why do you need to lie to support it?", "I believe children don't have the same rights as adults.", "Save it for Facebook.", "> The claim to violence was unsubstantiated, though.\n\nHoly shit. Imagine requiring a child to substantiate the fact that a parent was violent toward them... on the spot.\n\nIf a kid makes that kind of accusation in the middle of a court of law directly in front of the person being accused, you don't throw them in a correctional facility. You take that claim seriously.", ">I defended the actions of the father because it's normal,\n\nSupporting your kids being sent to jail because they don't want to talk to you is not normal and shouldn't be. What kind of nightmare world do you live in where it is? Where it is \"heroic\" to be against that? \n\nEven in that article you linked, it's clear that everyone thinks these two are nightmares, and you're here supporting the father in doing something horrible. If he'd gone after the wife or supported his wife's stay in jail (I'm sure he did, when it happened), that would be normal and understandable. NOT WHEN IT'S HIS KIDS.", "What a garbage response, THEYRE both corrupt", "Omg lol", "I remember the Trump part. I think that happened shortly after Biden's mysterious bumps after the polls counting were closed for the night. Yeah I think Trump is too dumb too actually asked for it to be rigged, but who knows. Both deserve public flogging.", "That sounds like a tired, lazy old grandma too tho.", "There are many reasons why I quit my last job, and that is one of them. People make you sick when you see the terrible stuff they do to their children. \"Oh I was hit as a child and turned out fine\" ...ok so ignoring that the kid looks like he was flayed you clearly didn't. You think hitting a child is fine. We can argue over the articles which say it isn't, the general scientific community, and everything else is on my side here.", "That's unfair toward cunts.", "As a man, i know i am bias but this is wild. I know its a possability one parent can turn the kids agaisnt the other over time but this is beyond a reasonable measure agnostic behaviour.\n\nYou've been odered to love! I AM A GOD!", "Nooooo, but if you don't agree with everything I say you're a Trump supporter!!!1111", "He commit treason and he isn’t in jail…use your brain and stop repeating things you read online.", "Michigan has such a beautiful natural environment. Shame about the people running it though.", "I heard they got iron snails in the 'cano.", "obviously you're a literal nazi for not taking a strong stance on one side of this and for pointing out the fact that there are a lot of moving parts and we might not know all the details", ">\tWhich conservatives have stepped down due to corruption/assault in the last few decades? Any of them?\n\nThe republicans Blake Farenthold, Tim Murphy, Trent Franks, Joe Barten, and Patrick Meehan….. joined by democrats Al Franken, John Conyers, Elizabeth Esty, and Ruben Kihuen. [Source](https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-sex-scandals-forced-out-of-office-2018-5?amp).\n\nThis stuff really is easy to google.", "By mysterious, you mean, as they were counting ballots from Democratic strongholds?", "As in as I said, during a window of time that votes were not being counted.", "Exactly my thought. Even if the mother brainwashed the children to hate the father, it makes precisely zero sense to charge the kids with a crime. You get them help, not punishment. \n\nWhat context could POSSIBLY justify the actions of the judge?\n\nEDIT: I've now watched the video people are posting about this case. I still can't find any context that would change my opinion. Even if you assume the father is a good man, and the mother is evil and poisoning the children against him... you punish the mother and get the children help. You do NOT hold the kids in contempt and lock them up. What the FUCK", "Am I the only one who's noticed that A&E, the infamously popular channel that created COPS and that Police Activity channel and whatever other beat cop show on YouTube has completely flipped their script and now showcase abuse of the system? They even have a video up that says in all caps \"CORRUPT COP blah blah blah\"...\n\nWhat is this? Just good ol' average capitalism?", "Damn friendo i kinda know how you feel. Its not our fault.", "What a cunty karen. Even has the hair. \"I order you to talk to your father\" fuck off.", "You're being downvoted, or otherwise \"silenced\" because you think Republicans are the only, or at least the main perpetrators of bad things. Even democrats are dragging you.....so I guess that makes them Republicans too in your delusional eyes.", "\"Mysterious bumps\"? Dont start spreading bullshit to make your claim seem realistic...", "When I went through my parents divorce my mother actively tried to convince us we were the constant victim of my father's neglect and abuse. My dad is far from a perfect person but it took me a LONG time to realize she was gaslighting us into believing absurdities to get what she wanted in court. Not that what this judge said was right but I'm sure she's seen a lot of cases where the mother has custody and of course the dad is just believed to be a no good deadbeat because of testimony from her and the kids. Its probably hard to remain objective every single case when in your gut, you know things might be different.", "The only difference is that it’s difficult to tell Republicans corruption from their parties official stances. Fuck Citizens United v US. We all lost on that. Corporations are not people and do not have inherent rights.", "What a fucking cunt. Wouldn't be surprised if she was blowing the dad on the bench after the proceedings. How the fuck does she know \"he's a good man\" unless when she's not harassing children her mouth is balls deep on dad's 3\" dick?\n\nDownvote me all you want. I don't care; this woman abused her power to the point that she threatened children with legal action because the didn't spend time with thier father. Rather than ask them why, she brought the hammer down on them any way she could. Fuck her and fuck you.", "This is an equally dumb comment.", "The Justice on the left, [Richard Bernstein](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_H._Bernstein) is the son of Sam Bernstein… as in, [1-800-CALL-SAM.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu6ug0vxAyU)", ">I voted libertarian so I am superior I guess. Get on my level. \n\nPeople complain about vegans and atheist being unable to shut up about it but I swear libertarians might have the most cringe.", "lmao wtf is that edit", "Degrading others to being children for having an OBJECTIVELY CORRECT statement is definitely mature...", "🤚🏼", "It's just right wingers. All of American politics sits to the right of even the right wing in Europe.", "Grandmas are allowed to be tired and lazy, because they are old have have dealt with their kids' shit.", "We have the most unbiased perspective because we will fault both sides equally if need be.", "In my experience, narcissists like to support each others toxic behaviour.", "lmao what a generalization", "[This is you](https://imgflip.com/i/5zbrtg)", "If there were zero republicans in congress tomorrow, how would the country turn out? Do you honestly feel it'd be worse than a 100% republican gov't?", "It's always amazed me that one political party loves to use identifiers as a weapon. Then turn right around and scream how you shouldn't be labeled, and how stereotypes are wrong. What?", "You don't get to have a bad day when you're sending people to jail. If you're having a bad day stay home or make the verdict on a good day.", "Uh, 18, unless we're talking about someone being TRIED AS AN ADULT, and then we'd be talking about criminal court, not this, which is FAMILY COURT. This isn't even juvie court, this is a divorce proceeding.", "All these comments are brigading shitbags who shutdown their brains when demographics are involved. You downplaying her gender is EXACTLY why it needed mentioned, fuckin cucks", "God damn, judges have this much power? Im being sued and got trial in two weeks. I thought they just judged shit, i didnt know they could make it so personal. Im fucked. Fuck...", "Holy anecdote batman", "I tried to be really clear about my qualifiers and that the middle paragraph was viewed as a thought experiment.\n\nFor instance your mentioning \"You don't know if the judge offered other solutions or tried a different approach\" is absolutely correct. And far more than that. It is incredibly easy to lead people to the conclusion you choose if you control what they see, even if you are limited to showing them only things that are true.\n\nThat's why I specified the middle portion was a thought experiment and why I specified \"Conclusion I can potentially draw\" instead of \"Conclusion that I believe\". Also the reason for the analysis that the video only has the information the producer chose to display, and put in the light they chose to display it.\n\nThat 'potential conclusion' I listed would be... how to describe... the conclusion I would draw, if I knew the video was not missing context and, if I knew the full backstory with a high confidence in accuracy, still decided the video was depicting the unbiased distilled truth of the situation. All this while separating that 'potential conclusion' from what I actually believe with the understanding that there is far more of that situation that I simply don't know and therefore cannot draw a reliable opinion about beyond the hypothetical \"If that fully represents the truth - then this:\".", "\"not someone who has an understanding of how to seek help\" that arguement could easily be used to say he doesnt know what violence is either. he couldve seen dad get upset over a football game and go \"dad is violent\"", ">We have the most unbiased perspective\n\nThat fact that you think you are unbiased is the cringiest part. Just listen to yourself, it's like you think you're some intellectual who's above it all after finding some hidden truth.\n\nYou aren't above the sides, you are a side.", "Hey man, he was on his TV show. Those bonds transcend politics.\n\n/s", "Ma’am this is a McDonald’s", "its a kid. kids make stupid decisions that they know wont be good for them for the sake of rebellion", "> It started out as a public option proposed by progressive democrats\n\nMore specifically, it started as a Republican law in Massachusetts. Democrats (Obama) took it and turned it into a proposal for national law, and the Republican (Romney) who signed the Massachusetts version into law fought as hard as anyone else to block it and then repeal it. It's stupid fuckery. Both sides are the same, except one side at least pretends to want people to have healthcare and the other side is pretty fucking explicit about not wanting that.", "whatever country youre from is a shithole, buddy", "I honestly think about sending the sheriff's department to pick my son up and enforce the custody everyday and giving him the option to toe the fucking line here or we'll send him to a mental health facility until he figures it out. The difference between my son and those kids is that my son is 17 years old. He could destroy our household dynamic much easier than kids those age and he's also at an age where the things that have been broken will most likely not get fixed. \n\nIf my son was 13 and pulling this bullshit I would 100% enforce the custody and have him sent to a mental health facility if he began to self-destruct. I keep bringing up the self-destruction thing because he has been taught to do that by his mom and grandmother when he doesn't get his way with me. If his grades were bad, I'd threaten to take him off the football team. In response he just quit playing football. It was impossible to parent him.\n\nAs well, my wife and I have two kids. Knowing that he could just up and leave on his 18th birthday and most likely would, I am protecting them from him hurting them again. They ask about him every single day. My wife and I have been through extensive therapy over this. We have come to the conclusion that it's probably in everybody's best interest just to let him go.", "As someone with abusive parents who fooled everyone around them, this hurts to watch. If children don't want to be near their parent, there is a reason.", "Except being biased for your own selfish needs...", "That's why this type of injustice is typically limited to the poor. They quite literally can't afford to do anything about it, so there's no consequences!", "/u/AlaskaNebreska seek mental help. please. You've got a victim\\oppression complex that is going to ruin your life.", "Yes, republicans and democrats are 2 sides of the same coin. Their strings are pulled by the same rich elites that really control this country.", "This is race baiting", "Curious if you've got a source on that? I'd be interested in reading. Seems to me you could throw a dart blindfolded and wherever it lands is corruption when it comes to US politics", "It's not dead, it's fucked by new Reddit markup changes.\n\nhttps://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/20607966/Fischer_v_State_of_Michigan_et_al", "Is it an executable thing to just MAKE someone interact with their parents?\n\nHow is this not an invasion of a persons life? \n\nThis is horrible. That judge is filth.", "I read the first word as Misa and it came thru in Jar Jar Bink's voice. I'm going to Hell.", "Someone should identify a man (assuming she's heterosexual) she despises and ask her why she doesn't want to have a relationship with the man. What a weird way of thinking this woman has. I suspect she has gone through this in her personal life and she was pissed that no one forced the other party to like her.", "So many uses of this word, yet not a correct one yet. I must have struck a cord with the age thing huh?", "I wouldn't call her a monster. Her heart was in the right place. She wanted to help. She just did a shitty job at helping by hurting the kids. That was the opposite of doing something \"in the best interest of the kids\"", "Who let the Canadian in?", "This is the premise of the civil suit that he settled with his employers. Read the casetext link.\n\nEdit: \"In January and February, 2016, the JTC went into executive session,excluding Fischer from the room, without offering an explanation for hisexclusion. At the end of the February, 2016 meeting, Commissioners 1and 3 spoke with Fischer stating that they had several concerns aboutthings that had happened. Among other complaints, Commissioner 1 toldFischer, \"You're Jewish, you speak Hebrew, you've been to Israel.\"Commissioner 1 also tied those facts to Judge Gorcyca's allegations thatFischer was \"an agent of the Israeli government\" because he had spokenwith the Israeli Consul General and shared his request to meet with thechildren with the Guardian ad Litem and the attorney for the father. \"", "The fuck on hell is going on.", "Being a both sides champion is also not helpful.\n\n\"MuH bOtH SiDeS\" is disingenuous and seeks to detail criticism of a clearly off the rails fascist party.\n\nJan 6th was not a sight seeing tour.", "Did you just really defend a court ordering a child to break the human right and free will?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIt is your childs law-and-god-given right to pick who to speak to or not to.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nDo you also wish you could still put shackles and chains on people so they 'learn some manners if they don't behave', and do you regret that public hangings aren't staged for people who act unruly?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nChildren are easily manipulated, so what! You can't go to a court and order your child to talk to you otherwise it's off to the slammer.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThose kids being in the slammer for something they don't really understand will spark hatred towards the parent, towards the judge and towards the penal system.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nI personally think you are letting out your frustration about your cheating and useless wife on your kids, and on top of that, you are letting it out on everyone else who isn't on your line. How dare those kids not talk to their father, when it is their own choice and they may or may not regret it!\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIf the kids wake up and realize the mistakes, good on them. If they don't, good! But don't let this hatred against your own ex wife out on the kids, and on strangers kids. That could, in front of a court and in front of a psychologist be laid out as equally manipulative and sick as what your wife allegedly had done. And overly aggressive rants and trauma-ridden statements could cost you custody anyways, since courts have to evaluate your own mental state and if you are full of spite and hate, then that's also not the real environment for a child to grow up.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nMen's made to swallow things, and be the bigger person in it all. Not throw around accusations at your kids, your parents, your wife, your wifes lover, your dog, the neighbors, the neighbors cat, the stones in your back yard. If you ain't careful, you may start hating each and everyone because of this.", "The kids tell the judge their dad is violent, and she punishes them.\n\nIf a judge can get away with this, we are not in a free country. If cops can get away with murder, again this isn't a free country. \n\nThis is fucked", "Even so, why threaten the kids?", "Yeah. UK has corruption, just like Russia, but one is way way way worse.", "Surprisingly, the judge who was putting kids in jail without representation actually received a pretty decent amount of time. Not for the violating of rights though, it was for fraud, money laundering, and tax evasion. He received a 28 year sentence and will be 85 by the time he gets out.", "Thank you for linking a highly-relevant reference.", "No it's everywhere", "I remember this awful cunt.", "Probably. Trump is on the cusp, but somehow stays on the right side of senile to be racist. Congrats\n\nAlso, at least Biden didn’t put his pants on backwards and wear them on national tv. I can understand the confusion when your dress pants have elastic waistbands and the button and zipper sewn in I guess…. I mean I can’t actually understand it, cause you’re supposed to be the President, but ya know", "I am very sorry that happened to you, that sounds like a nightmare situation. I don’t know if anything indicates something similar happening here, though. Frankly, I just don’t know the specifics of the case.\n\nI’ve handled hundreds of divorces in some capacity and I think the split between kids telling the truth and kids being influenced to embellish is about 85/15. In that 15 percent it usually isn’t outright lying—that is very rare.\n\nFact is, the courts have failed a lot of kids. Irrespective of the circumstances we don’t know, this video shows yet another failure.", "Thats clearly your goal here, to \"strike chords\" and troll everyone with dumbass shit. Begone troll", "Stop playing the victim.", "absolutely the opposite of what the people in this thread are saying lmao learn to read dipshit", "Unfortunately, in situations like this both sides are pieces of shit. They are spending all this time in court trying to attack the other person as much as possible. The dad didn't speak up because he knows the mom will be sad about jail. And the mom didn't ask the kids to be talkative at lunch, even though she knew the judge would be a bitch about it, because she wants to piss off the husband.", "I never claimed it was realistic. Thanks for that. There was a bump of votes at like 4am that were 100% Bidens, that is fact. Apparently they were the mail ballots being added finally, but at the time anyone asking what happened was basically called a nut job. Even though it is a valid thing to ask if no one was supposed to be adding to the votes at that time.", "Maybe being in the children's village (or whatever it is) was in his mind a better alternative to them staying with the mother.", "This is literally showing what they’re saying lol", "Republicans sure love to act like progressives on the internet and bash Dems.", "> As in as I said, during a window of time that votes were not being counted.\n\nThat's simply not true. They never stopped counting votes.", "And exactly what time was that and what state?", "With the militarization of our police forces, I doubt a kolldozer would do much now", "Yeah, kids always sob about the prospect of going to Juvie but choose it anyway because they're all mini James Deans. /s", "Ok, but that doesn't excuse her behavior", "Sure, but the point is it's a child.\n\nYou have an obligation as an authority figure, as a judge, as the mediator of the divorce, as the adult they're telling, to look into the situation and find out. Not just badger the child.\n\nMoreover if you suspect the child has been coached or brainwashed to do these things you shouldn't attack the child over it. You should go after the mother. Because again, it's a damn child caught in a divorce, they're having a hard enough time without the judge attacking them.", "A bill passed the House and is working its way through the Senate to end PACER fees. Very excited about that.", "Sometimes people just play their roles, don’t they\n\nNo Dem I know actually likes Biden, or thinks he’s any kind of super hero. We just know exactly what Trump is, and what republicans want, and it’s so objectively worse", "I mean I think her comment was a bit OTT but anyone who thinks woman aren’t treated as second class citizens needs some serious education.", "It might also say that anywhere away from the mother who did after all essentially kidnap them to another country IIRC was the best scenario. I was in an acrimonious divorce and the stuff that was said about me by my ex was/is insane. If we had had children there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I would have been reported to the legal system for fucking them on a regular basis.", "At the end of the day an order is just an order, a piece of paper and it’s up to the person to follow that order or not. You cant force anyone to follow any orders. That being said, there are laws that the judicial system expects people to follow such as having a healthy relationship with your spouse and/or kids. If a person does not follow these laws and becomes violent or abusive then there will be protective orders entered against that person governing a healthy relationship and possible sanctions entered as well.", "She deserves to be disbarred or whatever the judge equivalent is to that. A suspension is not enough. She couldn't remain impartial and keep her own biases out of court. She is not suited to be a judge.", "The GOP watchers and news were dismissed at 2am, those votes came in at 4am. No one should be counting votes unless both sides are there to watch.", "He never said that he was violent NEAR HIM. He said that he was violent. This could have been bullshit cooked up by the mother and incessantly repeated into their minds. How old was he when the mother left Israel(dual nationals)with the children without informing the father of her planned actions. Was it 5?\n\nEdited to remove a small error regarding country of birth", "I've got no trust in a judge... or any person, that would send a family of kids, the youngest being 9 years old, to fucking kiddie jail. What an inept fucking lunatic. Even if she was 100% accurate that they had been manipulated into not interacting with their father, she thinks the solution is to force them to do it by sending them away from both parents? I'm generally on the train with trusting the experts over the reactionary public, but there's legitimately zero excuse for such a fucking bonehead response. There's only two possibilities here: \n\n1. These kids are afraid of their abusive father, and don't want to be near him, and this dipshit sent them away for it. \n\n2. Their mother has manipulated tiny little kids into something that's probably going to destroy their relationship with their Father, and screw them up psychologically for decades, and her reaction was to send them to kiddie jail. I've got two kids, and there's absolutely no scenario where a divorce court judge would be justified in sending a 9, 10, and 13 year old off to kiddie jail, for being the victims of their parent's fucking insanity. \n\nDumb clown should have ordered them counselors and social work and everything other than goddamn punishment. She may not have lost her job, but the review process did find that she acted inappropriately. They've got more info than you and I.", "> The GOP watchers and news were dismissed at 2am, those votes came in at 4am. No one should be counting votes unless both sides are there to watch.\n\nNo, that never happened. You've been lied to.", "I grew up in foster care from birth until age 8. Every single foster home I went to was abusive. Do you know how judges, social workers, and more ignored my pleas? Every single one. If a child does not have an advocate, that child has no voice. They have no power. I am 31 now and barely alive. I missed so much of becoming a person because of the abuse I suffered. My adopted family was very abusive as well. Anytime I told the school or consulars about the abuse, they would ask my parents first then go off what my parents said.", "This shit hits home,my parents had a rough divorce and my dad is narcissistic and violent but the judge wanted us to live with him anyways cause of one incident with my mom when I have problems with him everyday everywhere", "5 bucks this cunt judge doesn't have kids \n\nLucky them", "National of Islam certainly don’t support Biden, or Democrats. Not being republican doesn’t mean support democrats.\n\nBut hey congrats that you thought of one supremacist group that doesn’t love Trump and republicans. Way to go. Huge win.", "Classic whataboutism, good job.\n\nWhich party tried to stop election results they didn't like and are still talking about it? I'll wait for your answer.\n\nThe two parties are no where near the same, go live in the woods alone if you don't like the \"Democrat controlled big cities\".", "There's just as much evidence that the kids are 'brainwashed' and 'need to learn about Charles Manson'.", "I’m a woman too and I find her idiotic", "Wow, what a genius", "How can these kids testify in court regarding the parents’ custody case? In my state this is forbidden especially if one or both of the parents are present in the courtroom as well. What a mess.", "Look around you. I suspect we have neither any more.", "The unbiased side", "I think they were trying to characterize how hardolaf might think about things rather than actually supporting the idea that women are intrinsically evil.", "That judge is a piece of shit. Hmm, it’s almost as thought the children knew their father better than a stranger and found him unworthy of their affections.", "The circle that is a Trump Supporter/Victim of Divorce Court venn diagram strikes again", "I think Trump knows how to word things so it's understood what he's asking for. This isn't his first rodeo. You don't get to where he is in real estate by playing by the rules.", "\"[Corporatist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism)\" has nothing to do with corporations. It's an anti-capitalist ideology that is focused on seizing the means of production in service of the nation-state. It's basically a Nationalist economic policy. If you want a word for corporations having a say in government, that's called Democracy. Corporations are just groups of people with a common interest.", "You didn't ask a question so there was nothing to avoid. \n\nYou avoided my question.", "Nah, I call them like I see them. I hate some republican policies and some democrat policies. And I like some republican policies and some democrat policies", "Trump ran a casino into the ground. The only thing you need to do at a casino is get people in the damn door. I don't think Trump is smart. He tried to sell vodka as a known non-drinker. He tried to sell steaks at Sharper Image. He tried to run a diploma mill. None of these are smart.", "Maybe the mother draws parallels in her mind with Charlie Manson.", "When people have bottom of the barrel political opinions its very ez to upset them", ">Huge win\n\nJust disproving the ridiculous theory that all supremacists support the Republicans.", "I want what you're saying to be satire but I knoe in my heart you mean it", "Guess I shouldn't bring up the books they want to ban with a bounty paid to the person turning it in for every day the books are not removed from the library. Would like to actually go through the houses of the prim and proper vigilantes and see how much porn they have stashed.", "I've got no trust in a judge... or any person, that would send a family of kids, the youngest being 9 years old, to fucking kiddie jail. What an inept fucking lunatic. Even if she was 100% accurate that they had been manipulated into not interacting with their father, she thinks the solution is to force them to do it by sending them away from both parents? I'm generally on the train with trusting the experts over the reactionary public, but there's legitimately zero excuse for such a fucking bonehead response. There's only two possibilities here: \n\n1. These kids are afraid of their abusive father, and don't want to be near him, and this dipshit sent them away for it. \n\n2. Their mother has manipulated tiny little kids into something that's probably going to destroy their relationship with their Father, and screw them up psychologically for decades, and her reaction was to send them to kiddie jail. I've got two kids, and there's absolutely no scenario where a divorce court judge would be justified in sending a 9, 10, and 13 year old off to kiddie jail, for being the victims of their parent's fucking insanity. \n\nDumb clown should have ordered them counselors and social work and everything other than goddamn punishment. She may not have lost her job, but the review process did find that she acted inappropriately. They've got more info than you and I.", "Only one side puts fucking candidates on their hats and shirts. It isn’t a team sport, but support has coalesced around one side because outright corruption, circling the wagons to protect members who have done wrong, and cronyism has become the standard behavior for one “team”.\n\nThis whole “it’s not a team sport!” Bullshit is so typical when one side has gone off the fucking deep end and taken their constituency with it, and the other side is pointing at them like “holy shit what is going on?”\n\nIt isn’t a team sport. But which side votes more often for the others bills and legislation and which side toes the party line to a T? When one side is playing like it’s a team sport, quoting “this isn’t a team sport!” To the other side feels super ridiculous.", "It's terrifying to met that this was legal. How can you put people in jail for not speaking to someone? What law did they break? How are they endangering themselves or others?", ">Most liberals\n \nI'm sure this is accurate and not in any way pulled completely out of your ass", "She also needs to look how often the courts are corrupt in favor of the mom. The judge in my case never once enforced any rulings on my ex. He also ignored all the court's own experts saying I was the better parent and she was neglecting and abusing the kids. \n\n\nI finally got custody, barely, after a suicide attempt at mom's house after years of being raped by her friends and fiancée. When they refused to see their mom, suddenly it was a problem to not see the other parent and I was jailed. \n\n\nThe day I was jailed the judge called our 14 y/o daughter a liar about the abuse, told her she was responsible for divorce and all the fighting and I was going to jail because of her and would keep going until she followed his orders to visit mom who still married one of the rapists. \n\n\nNo punishment though. You need media to get the system to pay attention and as the reporter told me, I could have all the proof in the world but fathers getting fucked just wasn't news. But it is strange how somehow men and the father's rights groups who think shit like was done to me shouldn't be allowed are somehow evil. They just want to paint us all as some kind of monsters who abuse women and kids and are just trying to get out of paying support.", ">Meanwhile the children underwent clinical examinations and supervised parenting time by seven therapists. The parents went through 20 attorneys — 16 by the mother and four by the father.\n\n[source](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/07/01/judge-lisa-gorcyca-guilty-hearing/86609062/)\n\n>The children, on advice of several professionals in the case, were ordered removed from their mother’s custody for several months.\n\n[source](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/05/30/lawyers-back-oakland-judge-herings/85159886/)", "99.9 percent of supremacists love Trump. The one that doesn’t cares about neither republicans or democrats.\n\nHuge win homie. “Ridiculous” theory alright. Way to slip in a statistical anomaly that makes the “theory” a certainty and takes it to “ridiculous” because the word “every” needs to be replaced with “all but 1”.\n\nDo you obey the law? Have you ever once broken even the smallest of laws, even Jay walking or littering or driving above the speed limit? Well I’m here to disprove this ridiculous theory that you aren’t a criminal thug because that one time you drove 46 in a 45. That one time, makes the the idea you obey the law ridiculous and disproves the notion you aren’t a thug who deserves prison.", "This judge is fucked. How scary for these poor kids. Omfg 🤬", "I think you're assuming to much about the composition of the Commission. In other states judicial boards like that are supposed to be non-partisan, but beginning in 2008 or so the GOP began aggressively packing appointed boards & commissions with partisan nominees nation-wide.", "💗", "When the kids chose jail over thier father, perhaps you should listen to the darn kids. WTF!", "Lol. The desire to be a victim and oppressed is just baffling to me.", "In this instance an anecdote was literally helpful. She made a sweeping generalization and tried to pretend like one party was nothing but sunshine and your girl literally disproved that ridiculous narrative that anyone is perfect with a 1 sentence anecdote. Chill bruh lol", "Specifically, a democracy that has decided that corporations are people. Democracy by itself doesn't say anything about corporations, You have to do a little bit of word shaping to get \"corporations\" and \"the people\" under the same umbrella.", "Hmmm, for midterms predictions [I defer to 538 anyways](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-best-tool-for-predicting-midterm-elections-doesnt-show-a-republican-wave-but-history-is-on-the-gops-side/), but I suspect the Democrats are going to take a big hit as it stands, with the left wing of the Democratic party frustrated and their base even more, with topics like student loan forgiveness coming to (almost) nothing. The Democrats have failed in recent memory to enthuse their real base sufficiently to hold on to power, and the electoral process has now been thoroughly rigged by the Republicans with the help of the SCOTUS. State senates are even worse. I can't even consume that news any longer, it's that bad, imo.\n\nThe DNC habitually sideline or undervalue their rock stars like AOC and Sanders, and with people like Manchin it's obvious they always have internal defectors to deflect to anyway for progressive policies to fail. Not to mention Pelosi and all the other grannies and grandpas running the country who are completely out of touch. Obama did some of this too, imo. Negotiate publicly, be content that opposition, both externally and internally, defang progressive proposals, then go with a watered down compromise the corporatist backers of the Democrat party wanted to begin with. Yes, he has also accomplished things. There is hardly room for non-complexity on these topics, as they are potentially book volumes thick.\n\nBut, forget all that. I predict unrest. Violence. Lots of it. I, to some degree, [predicted January 6th two weeks before it happened as well](https://old.reddit.com/r/capitolcoup/comments/l0wbfp/a_creepy_prediction_i_made_on_december_27th_2020/). And yet it still shocked me deeply. The half-baked handling of the aftermath of Jan 6th tell me this may go several steps further next time. Obviously this isn't even a controversial position at this point. I am expecting a collapse of democracy in the United States within the next 5 years. Think thank simulation models have been predicting societal unrest as well for a while now. I don't have a list of sources handy ([here's a google overview](https://www.google.com/search?q=simulations+predict+global+unrest)), but it appears these models could be predictive. Models are always \"wrong\", but the point is in how close they can get to describing a future event. [They call this \"skillful\" in climate modeling, as prominent climate scientist Gavin Schmidt once explained](https://www.ted.com/talks/gavin_schmidt_the_emergent_patterns_of_climate_change). Obviously, climate models have a property these models do not: climate models rely on physical laws alone.\n\nI see that Biden's approach is to sit back quietly (save for e.g. Psaki's comments on coronavirus) so as not to give the Fox News base any reason to get worked up, but I'm not too sure it's going to calm things down sufficiently. If I were the Democrats I would go out swinging. But who knows what their true plan is. I don't really even know if there is one. It doesn't look like it. And both China and Russia appear to be planning to exploit these internal political divisions to the fullest, so let's make it Coronavirus crisis, the final stages just like with the Spanish Flu in 1920, terrorist violence, ongoing climate escalation and a geopolitical crisis on multiple fronts. Perhaps literally. \n\nForget about Europe, we're bogged down ourselves, and anti-E.U. sentiment, deftly exploited by all foreign rivals, is going to ensure extreme disunity and possibly a disintegration of the E.U. as we know it. That is, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and the U.K. are going to plant the seeds of further destabilisation with their populist, in some cases even outright extremist governments.\n\nSo my prediction is that 2022 is going to be a fucking tinderbox, and there are too many lit matches around for it not to blow.\n\nAnyways, I consider myself retired. I've been an absolute mean cnt for decades and I have an extremely heated but complicated view on conspiracy theories (I refuse to trust governments entirely and conspiracies do in fact exist), but I consider the battle over. The conspiracy theorists have won, they've weaponised it as an ideology now, and the consequences for global society will be dire. For me, this is literally nightmarish. Imagine having to sit in a bar, drink a few beers, and people around you are vomiting out talking points you are extraordinarily well trained to debunk. And you just want to have a few drinks and some fun, knowing that if you engage, shit will hit the fan, because if and when I start, I don't back down. Journalist acquaintances have been firebombed. Vulnerable hospital patients described as \"in on it\". Family of mine indirectly made part of a grand conspiracy theory fudging death numbers.\n\nI would like to offer a \"glass half full\" future/prediction, but that's not really me anyway. I can't look at society today and expect positive change. I've had plenty of discussions with activists about this (some get really angry at this sort of defeatism, and sometimes rightly so), but I can't embrace a fairy tale in order to boost morale. Not any longer, at least. My advice to you would be to start preparing, although, of course, any significant financial investment for such a preparation, ideally, will have no ROI whatsoever.", "Thing about being wrong, it's rather binary. I'd have had no cause to comment if he had said \"most\" supremacists are Republicans. But he just had to say \"literally all,\" which is 100% false.", "Our justice system is broken in usa. Very broken", "> but beginning in 2008 or so the GOP began\n\n...\n\n>with 4 members being appointed by the various state judicial divisions, 3 members being appointed by the state bar, and only 2 of the 9 members being appointed by the Governor.", "I am. Thus why I have 2 honors university degrees.", "Corporations are made of people. You don't get bonus points for blocking people from acting collectively in their own interests. Democracy depends on people collectively advocating.", "Here, I'll carry it down from the above comment since your reading comprehension seems to be struggling:\n\nWasn't she supposed to be in jail 5 years ago now? Or do we chock up that lie to the 'DeEp StAtE'?\n\nI'll answer you once you answer mine. :)", "Falsely accusing someone of abuse and violence is a federal crime. Which would be criminal. It ceased to be just a family court matter once criminal conduct was brought up.", "I talked to a lot of redditors who call her a liar. Do you believe her?", "Children don't have the law and god given law and right to chose their parents. That's done over mediation sessions and court appearances in a custody battle. Now, occasionally the children's wishes in who they stay with are taken into account. You are clueless as to how family law works. I've had several discussions with counselors, therapists, and attorneys who do. I have sat through several mediations and a couple of court hearings in my son's case. I'm not going to claim to know the law inside and out but I do know enough to know that you have absolutely no clue what you were talking about.", "Then you don't know what that word means.", "I'm not your buddy, Pal. Such a confident statement without knowing what country I hail from. The USA is rife with violence(from their own government and law enforcement no less),poverty, substance abuse, human rights abuse, a crooked law system, war mongering tendencies, religious extremists, all on a level with developing/third world countries. Fuck, how many dead school kids is it gong to take for them to pull their fingers out and sort the problem at hand?\n\nThe USA is a shithole.", "Poor women, men in this country have their genitals mutilated at birth, are forced to sign up for the draft and have zero reproductive rights and your complaining you can't get free birth control.", "God, the amount of sounds effects in this production makes it nigh-unwatchable.", "The magic term people are looking for is \"rich people\". They don't have a party, they support whatever helps them get more money.", "Wow, you must be an expert in everything! Can I have an autograph? How about you fuck my sister? \n\nLearn some modesty, empathy, and perspective", "\"I ordered you to have a healthy relationship with your father\" - if it only worked that way.", "You’re full of shit and you know it. By saying you are disproving this “ridiculous” theory and then mentioning 1 group, who doesn’t engage in politics at all currently in that way, you’re trying to disprove with semantics.\n\nOk so let’s agree with you. Then you’ll agree that almost every single supremacist group supports Trump right? Your simply here to set the record straight, and you’ve said your peace that you thought of one that wouldn’t support him. Now being impartial, you’d also concede most every supremacist group supports Trump, right?", "Again the fact that you can't see you're own biases is pretty telling about you and your ability for self reflection. Thinking you have no bias is just an immature view of politics and life in general.", "at this point, isn't Trump part of the 'Deep State'? Its supposed goals and members keep changing depending on whatever is convenient at the moment.", "Judge is a piece of shit, does piece of shit thing, public outcry makes her feel bad, she changes her bullshit judgement to a less bullshit judgement, judge is reprimanded for it for like a week.\n \nNothing was actually rectified or changed. Cool culture of law we have here.", ">If my son was 13 and pulling this bullshit I would 100% enforce the custody and have him sent to a mental health facility\n\n\"Mental health facility\"? \n\nDid you mishear juvenile detention?", "This whole thing is absurd. They're focusing on the judge's \"demeanor\" instead of whether or not the judge was pursuing the truth of the children's claims?\n\nHad they all gone to separate therapist evaluations? Were the claims of violence on the part of the father substantiated in any way?\n\nAbsurd clip. I don't give a shit about a snarky judge. I care about whether she actually did due diligence or not. \n\nIt kinda sounded like she was the father's new girlfriend, lol. But that could just be editing choices.", "Yeah, was gonna say..I've lived around Boston MA and Providence RI, Democratic powerholds for a century plus and they were the definition of corrupt part machines. They're only now just starting to be cleaned up.", "Nobody can keep you down.", "The dishwasher making that funny noise again.😒😒", "\"wasn't she supposed to be in jail 5 years ago.\"\n\nI have no idea what you're talking about. \n\nWhat lie? You're making a statement, not asking a question.", "Yeah, I do. A few exchanges on Reddit does not equal \"most liberals\"", "Why lie? \n\nHonestly I'm just curious at this point.", "When someone is an asshole they get their rocks off upsetting people. Grow the fuck up and maybe you wont feel the need to call other children. Fuckwad", "I was brainwashed by my mother to alienate my father", "As an American, I wonder how long our country can really sustain itself at the rate it's going. I really can't imagine this country lasting another hundred years without either an extreme reform or a total collapse. It just seems like the current system is designed perfectly for failure.\n\nEDIT: to add\n\nFor fuck's sake, our military gets more money than anything else and most of that money is going to contractors to do the dirty work. The only thing keeping our real military might from just ditching us and going to China or Russia is that we're paying them more.\n\nDo we even have control over our own nukes anymore or are they in the hands of some private contractor who is supposed* to be taking orders from the president?", "But why though? This comment furthers my point that people are kneejerk reacting and not using their brains", "Even if that's the case, her actions had the effect of further hurting children she herself identified as being victims of manipulation. A+ effort there, Judge. Really a great idea. That alone leads me to suspect she doesn't have as much information as she thinks she does.", "🙄", "Judges are so gross", "Who are you going to punish for contempt of court?", "https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/9/18/1796668/-UPDATED-Comparing-Presidential-Administrations-by-felony-arrests-and-convictions-as-of-9-17-2018\n\nanytime someone says \"both sides\" send them that link\n\nand that was just in 2018. obviously we've had plenty more Trump arrests since then.", "Stop making shit up. If it was mail in ballots then it wasnt a fucking mystery now was it?", "Well there's definitely more than one, the others are just much smaller. \n\nBut sure if you want me to concede to a position I never opposed, and that I've literally said just above is accurate, fine. The majority of supremacist groups support the right-wing Republican party in the United States, largely the wing controlled by Donald Trump. The support by these groups is tolerated by the remaining Republican party members. \n\nI don't really know why you were thinking I said anything differently. Again probably says more about you than it does me.", "It’s the context of the corruption that does it. Left trades stocks. Right actively takes away humanity from anyone they can for a profit and to retain control. Walk like a duck quack like a duck and I’ll call ya a fuckin’ duck.", "What a piece of shit.", "I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't charges need to be filed and the case heard for him to go to jail? I'm not saying he isn't guilty, but no charges have been filed. No one is pursuing charges. Maybe they don't feel there is enough of a case. Congress failed to impeach and convict, but that's not a justice system issue. More a political issue.", "Holy fucking shit, how can it be illegal to not want to talk to your violent father? This is insane. Fuck this country.", "Except myself. I am my own worse enemy.", "r/iamatotalpieceofshit", "Anal and oral are free forms of acceptable birth control!", "The QWOP? I heard their party had serious stability issues.", "im not your pal, friend", "If you know its parental alienation it would probably make more sense to punish the abuser and not the victims. Its like sending someone to jail for not breaking up with an abusive partner.", "I'd argue that she pushed for a cruel and unusual punishment and violated those children's constitutional rights. She should be disbarred. \n\nThere is no honor in her behavior.", "I'm not your friend, mate.", "Why are you so triggered? It was mysterious at the time because no one would actually explain it. Chill. Calm your tits.", "im not your mate, sport", "100% accurate assessment. I love our country and the cultures and people in it, but we're not only a violent group but a group that directly supports violent conflict around the world due to our dedication to the arms race.", "Link still works", "\"I never imagined someone would pick juvenile detention over time with a parent\" ... He...told you his dad is violent...", "The judge decided jail for children would fix them of their brainwashing. That is clearly wrong from a psychological standpoint and that the punishment is so wrong implies the case was seen through in an equally incorrect manor, otherwise how could you get to this point?", "Interesting idea i would love to see some singular state toy with in their own system. Its worth exploring.", "Not all corruption is the same, and neither are the repercussions.", "In the bubble you are in it may seem like republican corruption seems to be at an all time high right now but I assure you there is an equally large and equally wrong bubble on the other side that thinks the democratic party's corruption seems to be at an all time high right now.\n\nEdit: Can't believe the downvotes, the single-minded groupthink of the current democratic party is going to cause the pendulum to swing so far to the right that you will not recognize the country. Why are you intent on pushing everyone away?", "evil, egotisitical bitch. remove her. she doesnt belong in such a position. shame on her. send this so-called judge to solitary confinement to reflect on who she’s become.", "What are you talking about? All 3 kids were born in the USA. \n\nWhat kind of person automatically invalidates a child’s claim of abuse and blames the mother instead.", "Maybe when you are over 20 you will learn more.", "Well, while I am a big fan of Wikipedia, I'm unconvinced by the quality of the page you linked. You can see that because one of the sentences most forcefully critical regarding a definition dispute doesn't cite a reference.\n\nHowever:\n\n> Modern corporatism was originally defined by Schmitter as:\n\n> > a system of interest representation in which the constituent units are organized into a limited number of singular, compulsory, noncompetitive, hierarchically ordered and functionally differentiated categories, recognized or licensed (if not created) by the state and granted a deliberate representational monopoly within their respective categories in exchange for observing certain controls on their selection of leaders and articulation of demands and supports. (Schmitter and Lehmbruch 1979, p. 13)\n\n> Among the essential prerequisites for the emergence of corporatist mechanisms or systems are usually counted the existence of peak associations, strong reformist labor movements, a propensity for state interventionism, and a readiness for interparty cooperation, if not consociationalism, in the political arena (cf. Puhle 1984, Lijphart 1984). In reality, however, this ‘pure type’ of corporatism has been as rare as its opposite, the nineteenth-century model of liberal pluralism.\n\n> The systems of interest intermediation of most developed countries seem to have evolved into one of the two most frequent ‘mixed’ patterns. One is an organized and more or less regulated pluralism, often with strong oligarchic tendencies, which usually begins with ‘regulation by the regulated,’ as in the USA during the Progressive Era.\n\nhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/corporatism\n\nSometimes I find that Wikipedia, as it changes, suddenly rejects definitions of terms which were in common parlance twenty years ago. I've come to a point where I think it's important to not automatically accept such changes.\n\nFor example, some 14 years ago, the same Wikipedia page said:\n\n> Contemporary popular (as opposed to social science) usage of the term is more pejorative, especially when used in the shorter form corporatism (corporativism usually implies only the Italian construct indicating public rather than private organizing), emphasizing the role of business corporations in government decision-making at the expense of the public. The power of business to affect government legislation through lobbying and other avenues of influence in order to promote their interests is usually seen as detrimental to those of the public. In this respect, corporatism may be characterized as an extreme form of regulatory capture, and is also termed corporatocracy, a form of plutocracy. If there is substantial military-corporate collaboration it is often called militarism or the military-industrial complex. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corporatism&oldid=158690025\n\nThen again, I don't see any references there either.\n\nThere are other examples: \"deep state\" once had an entirely different connotation than it does now, and the blame for that squarely falls on Glenn Greenwald who used it in his zeal to find a new media home for his self-indulged antagonist and rancorous rambling. [Even used it on Tucker Carlson's show](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/glenn-greenwald-the-bane-of-their-resistance). It then took off and now it's a term which instantly invokes images of hordes of right-wing terrorists and QAnon loons storming the Capitol. I know the term from the days it was used by e.g. Prof. Peter Dale Scott. Who is right? The question might be pointless, since the answer is no longer going to sway anyone.", "Why do y’all always have to make it one side vs the other it’s getting tiring", "I'm absolutely with you here. We don't know enough information to make a judgment on the actual situation the kids are in, but the judge's behavior and actions is awful regardless.\n\nEven if she's 100% correct with her assessment of the parents, in what world is mocking and jailing children the way to get through to them? Surely we can do better than, \"you don't know what's good for you, off to jail till you realize I'm right!\"", "Self-compassion goes a long way. All the best.", "Can someone explain to me how a kid can go to juvenile detention for being caught between a messy divorce? Like legit don't understand how that is even remotely legal.", "There are so many shit judges in this country", "You're on reddit. Grow up and go outside lol", "And she is still a judge today. Disgraceful!\n\nhttps://www.oakgov.com/courts/circuit/judges/family/Pages/gorcycal.aspx", "And those people are already have their individual rights. There's simply no equity between a natural person and a corporate entity \"person\" who enjoys more rights than a natural person like like immorality and limited liability. Working collectively towards a goal as a group of individuals with individual rights shouldn't even be compared to working collectively as a legal entity with rights all its own. People would be allowed to work together in their own interests without some emergent quality making them greater than the sum of their parts. \n\nNot to mention where corporations start advocating for something wanted by an extreme minority of its constituent parts that would adversely affect the majority of its constituent parts. In this way you take undemocratic behavior, amplify it above any single person's ability, and then level it with any other person and call that democratic.", "Why should other people be force to pay for your birth control? Can I demand you pay for my shoulder surgery?", "Maybe the sort of person who has seen this sort of shit IRL. Maybe the sort of person who ha been lied about and manipulated to their detriment.\n\nOriginal country was a slip apologies. They are dual nationals US/Israel. They were living in Israel when the mother took off to the US with the kids without informing the father which is in itself a criminal act.\n\nOh and the mother is on record for assaulting the father and making custody exchanges extremely toxic if that helps.", "I mean, presumably take away your vote and fit you for one of those Handmaids tale dresses.", "Guess what? You're the one that's dumb. BOOM, roasted!", "Yeah dont make assumptions like that you'll only be right 90% of the fucking time and it won't matter anyways because conservatives will conflate one act of democratic corruption with 1000 acts of republican corruption.", "The System: *DO WHAT I SAY OR ELSE, IS THAT CLEAR?!", "About half of the USA is totally bonkers. The rest of America is ight... minus the cartels, and the corrupt south American governments.", "You have a source on that? Because the video says that fathers rights groups supported her but I didn't hear it say he did directly.", "Nobody asked for your narritive dude", "We're the world's hall monitor, we won't let any two countries have a war anywhere on earth without us coming in to show off whatever new toys we just bought at severe markup from one of our buddies.\n\nWe also just spent 4 years under the control of a man who is continuing to rise in power among his followers in much the same way Hitler did in his early years, and this fucker got 43% of the vote last time and still has 4 more years he could theoretically get.", "“Judge put on trial for wrongfully imprisoning children” fixed your title", "Bone headed parents = bone headed kids", "Biden also addressed this and apologized within hours, IIRC. Trump can’t even admit the Central Park Five were exonerated.", "\"I order you to have a healthy relationship with your father\"\n\nB'ok", "Judge should be in jail for a bit in addition to being disbarred. See how well she likes it there.", "LOL.\n\nNot republican here.\n\ni swear every victim complex idiot brings up republican and trump like its a daily ritual.", "That's actually an apt metaphor. Completely difficult, frustrating, looks completely idiotic, but still adored by a significant portion of people.", "Neither do you. But you're assuming that you're right, just like the person you're responding to.", "I wish reddit had laugh reacts", "Corporations get to be treated as people because groups of people have the same right to freedom of speech as one person individually.", "Fuck thats funny", "Trump admin was on a different level for sure. I guess that kinda changes the scope of things when there was so much corruption involved with his administration. But I'm still curious to know how it looks from just general politicians around the country.\n\nI feel like this is one of those things where it kinda goes back and forth. There were periods where the Democratic admins were overly corrupt, now is a time where it's more Republican corruption. I'm willing to bet they aren't far off when it comes to overall corruption though. But I don't have any proof or statistics or anything, which is why I'm curious if there are numbers out there\n\nBut yeah Trump admin was like mindbogglingly, historically corrupt and incompetent pieces of shit so it's going to be hard to top that", "They were only in Israel a few months. The mother took them home to the US. \n\nI hope if you have kids that you don’t just ignore what they say they’re going through. \n\nPlease link the article showing she was convicted of assault, it that happened. This horrible excuse for a judge is the one accusing her of making the exchanges toxic, you know, the same judge who put these poor traumatized kids in juvenile detention.", "You're really twisting yourself in a knot to avoid answering this question.", "Of course, dismissing a person or group that feels victimized really only services one party.", "I had to read this 5 times to understand that \"passed on his request\" didnt mean he didnt want to do it. Passing the request was the request.", "I’m too lazy to watch all of this what time did she go to prison for", "That's the entire point of this chain, starting with \"CORRUPTION.\" I was under the impression that everybody was in on it and are using it for their own personal political circle jerk.", "this woman is sick. she has her own issues. i feel really bad for the kids", "this guy is nothing but a waste of oxygen. his entire post history is bad faith jaq nonsense", "I have studied the American political system for almost fifty years now, since Nixon and have to wholeheartedly agree, the political parties that are in place now neither represent the people or their interests and those who hold such beliefs should be barred from holding office. \n\nThere need to be much higher standards to run for public office and candidates from both parties, but overwhelmingly republicans simply do not deserve to hold office. The same goes for the judiciary. \n\nStrike the whole thing down and start over from square one.", "I do believe a group of people can have a spokesperson, yes. Any person in that group of people can talk at will without the government silencing them. The government can't silence the group anymore than it could silence any single individual. That's how things would work without special protections and extra privileges and rights. That's how things would work without any sort of formal government recognition at all. You're not talking about corporations, you just talking about groups of people. Corporation is are different and conflating groups of people advocating a platform or goal with corporations is disingenuous. It shuts down conversations about corporate personhood by tricking people into thinking people who are against corporate personhood are against people coming together at all.", "When you run out of points to make... Insult!\n\nNice.", "Sortof, but not. Just take out the excess \\\\'s.", "is this one of those judges that get voted into their position, without any necessary legal training?", "I'll never forget hearing: \"your father will always believe me, no matter what you say.\"\n\nAbuse hurts a tiny bit more when you plead the truth and get dismissed.", "AJAB", "By all means don't be silenced, but the judge isn't republican she's an independent. You can speak all you want but people will be less likely to listen if you're just making things up that feel right to you.", "I think at the local level it would be relatively even (Democrat corruption centered in cities, R corruption mostly in suburbs/rural). but one main point is that the presidential voter base is nationwide and clearly Republican voters aren't interested in whether or not their President admin breaks the law", "Except that the Republicans are, almost to a man, easily proved liars and hypocrites. The rest are still awful, but open about it.\n\nWith Democrats it may be a crapshoot, but with Republicans you are guaranteed shenanigans.\n\nI personally would love there to be multiple viable options, but before we can have such nice things we have to eliminate the unified fascist party (GOP).\n\nAnyone who believes the Dems are \"just as bad\" as the depraved Republican party are either really, really stupid, or else lying.", "They were still pretty young kids, and we're being threatened over, and over, and over again in court by someone with real power over them legally. It was prolonged verbal assault. And not once did they falter. Even when covertly threatened with sexual abuse, in my opinion, with that line about going to the bathroom in front of people. Even when actually sentence to go there, they cried but they didn't suddenly change their mind and start pleading. They stuck to it.\n\nBecause whatever had happened to them, either scared them more* than the judge or made them angry enough to have that much resolve. You need to do a LOT to a kid that age to make them that resilient to interrogation and punishment.", "No one even knew you were a woman before you said you were...\n\nEDIT: [Here is the deleted comment](https://i.imgur.com/ZRaTto3.jpg)", "you clearly have no idea what brigading means... this is on /r/all.... /videos is not a niche subreddit with few members.", "So upset hahahah this is amazing", "1- I would bet she gets a kickback from that juvenile detention center. Somebody needs to investigate her financial dealings. This wouldn’t be the first time. \n\n2- the fact that their father would allow his kids to be put in children jail, rather than just rescind his request to see them, tells me all I need to know. He is absolutely no father, and those kids are right to refuse to see him. \n\nI have 2 kids. Were I in this situation I would think of my kids, not myself. I would ask the judge to not do this… for the sake of the kids, and as a bonus because it would make it even more difficult for me to build a relationship with them. They won’t forget why they went to jail, and in a few years they are adults and will be no contact with him forever because of it. But he doesn’t care about that, he only cares about trying to legally dispute child support or some other selfish bullshit. \n\nThe nerve of that judge calling him “a good man” when she knows nothing about him. These judges get to thinking that they actually know the truth by some will of God…. And refuse to hear and see what is plainly obvious to anyone who isn’t high on their own ego. Disgusting.", "You're definitely misreading me here. The judge is a sack of shit for what she did. The only reason I can think of was that she might have wanted the kids away from the mother at any cost and that is also the only reason I can think of that the father didn't strenuously object to her actions that day. I honestly don't know. I purposefully chose not to have kids as I don't see a future for them and it turns out that was a wise choice. If I had had children my ex would have definitely reported me for molesting them by now(this is a common accusation during custody battles(some accusations will of course be true but many will not)) and there is no way on Earth that those kids would not have been raised on a diet of Daddy hate.\n\nThe place she sent them to isn't your standard Juvenile Detention facility it caters more for abused/damaged kids. That doesn't make it better it just means they weren't being stuck with some of the hardened crims we have as kids these days.", "Fuck this judge.. what a cunt. She has no idea what these kids have been through. You cannot force a relationship on a child.. what a bitch..", "Wow what the fuck how did she even make it to judge status with this fucking attitude and Karen haircut", "/r/averageredditor moment", "Oh he apologized? That makes it ok then! /s \n\n\nYou really can't be serious with this shit.", "That's because \"corporatist\" was a legitimate somewhat popular ideology in the 1930s and 40s, and social scientists use the term to describe systems today. The pejorative use of the term to complain about le evil corporations taking over the government is a very minor use by political activists mainly in the United States. People have been using the term \"corporatist\" long before Wikipedia even existed to describe systems of government like the Estado Novo in Portugal.\n\nThe term \"deep state\" is calqued from Turkish and refers to the idea that a bunch of bureaucrats have the real control over the government as opposed to elected officials. This is because whenever things got to a certain stage in Turkey the military would often launch a coup and return things back to normal in a few years. I'd say people on the right are using it in its intended meaning. They believe a shadowy cabal of people in the government are truly pulling the strings and they're not wrong. Trump couldn't do shit like nuking hurricanes or implementing stuff he tweeted about because the bureaucracy kept opposing him.", "Court cam is so fun", "No, a collection of cells is called a collection of cells, that's why we call it a collection of cells. A fetus is a person, full stop", "Has nobody noticed \"children's village\"?", "This is what a wicked person looks like.", "Tammany Hall and the exciting world of Illinois governors come to mind.", "Didn't read a word of what you typed", "I just responded to your statement", "I guess having daddy issues is a choice", "> Both your political parties are shit and mostly corporatist, but the Republicans are far worse. In practically every respect. That includes corruption.\n\nYou're reading comprehension seems to be pretty bad, the post you first replied to wasn't only talking about corruption, why did you think it was? My reply wasn't just about corruption, why do you think it was? Go back to school and learn to read.", "Judge Karen needs to wipe that smirk off her face. What a loon.", "And you’re illiterate? You poor dear, it’s all making sense now.", "Not only do the children not get justice, but the head of the disciplinary board gets fired, and the judge in question walks away smugly. MURICA", "retard? Are you fucking 9 years old? \n\n\nAnd what about those of us who recognize republicans are worse but aren't willing to severely downplay democrats actions like you just did? Republicans are worse, but Democrats are still scum. It's hilarious how you people aren't at all willing to let others hold them accountable for their actions. Any time they try it's met with this kind of shit. Whataboutism at it's finest you typical fucking hypocrites.", "I see. I would never do such a thing to my husband, but then again, we’ve been happily married for 27 years. Everyone sees things from their own perspective. \n\nThe children are obviously the victims here. They’re going through hell already, and this judge chose to make their lives that much worse because she’s a control freak. This really shouldn’t be legal.", "Wow they must be really brainwashed then, no other factors could be at play here /s", "Coming from a country neighbouring Russia and Belarus, I am very afraid of the coming years. Your points are valid.", "Sounds like you want to be a corporatist then.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism", "Hahaha beautifully said. Pro women rights, but that comment was so over the top.", "I never said dems didnt have their shit, but to even suggest its comparable is the bullshit, because they're not. Dems actually hold people accountable even if its a dem president being impeached and dont keep a twice impeached president in office.", "> Let me guess. Republicans?\n\nWhile Judges are supposed to be apolitical and thus don't officially align with a political party her husband (a state prosecutor) is a Republican.\n\nIf I had to take a guess I would say that yes she's a Republican.", "Here's a link for more info [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5\\_M47H6GYA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5_M47H6GYA)\n\nAs a side note my wife was a wonderful and kind person who hit menopause, joined a cult and turned into a frigging monster. She was a wonderful person once.\n\nI read about this case years ago and that's where I remember the assault stuff from. My browser history unfortunately doesn't stretch back that far. BTW (and this isn't some referral bullshit to make me money) I use the Brave browser which will pay you in crypto to use the net. I make about $5USD a month and it adds up. If you have kids every bit helps. My kids are furry.", "Yeah sadly I have to agree with you there 100%. I grew up in a very conservative, Republican family. My parents are still very conservative, I hate all politics tbh and I'm not Republican or democrat. \n\nI used to watch the apprentice with my dad, and my dad would not shut up about how much of a joke of a person Trump is. He spent every episode just ridiculing and mocking Trump for being such an incompetent tool. Then he got nominated for prez and my dad somehow now thinks he's some great genius politician. The way the blinders are pulled over just for the sake of \"he's red guy and hates the blue guys\"...it's disturbing and really sad. Everyday I'm reading a headline that seems like it's fiction and everyday I see the people turning a blind eye or worse, making excuses and justifying it.\n\nJeez okay I'm getting a little carried away lol, sorry I might be slightly traumatized. My dad is a really intelligent and rational man and it was just a crazy experience to talk to him about politics through the Trump admin, and still is tbh", "The children certainly should once they're of age. This judge ruined their lives as much as their father did.", "This is fucking sickening.", ">I'm a democrat. Our party has corruption too. We aren't a magical perfect party. Automatically assuming any corruption you see on the internet is the republicans fault is ignorant.\n\nCompared to Republicans actively fighting against people's freedoms in cartoonishly blatant, evil ways - I'd still prefer one corruption over another.\n\nObviously the goal is to reduce (eliminate) corruption, particularly in politics. But don't pretend that simple Corruption and Corruption + Evil intent are the same thing.", "Gross", "Hey, I see you provided some sources on Parental Alienation and how mothers more accused of it by ~10% than fathers of it in one of your sources. I see nothing on how this is something Men's Right Activists are responsible for pushing this in the courts and fathers. \n\nAre you 100% this is purely a men's right activist behaving negatively or is there other possibilities that you may have not considered? Right now, you have provided only sources on a term not initially discussed and assumptions that is caused by a group you dislike. Considering abusive parents exists for each sex and both parents can be accused of Parental Alienation, wouldn't it be better if both sides stop using this tactic in bad faith with the court?\n\nI know that is a dream for all family courts to go well and smoothly, I just don't see your argument that this is caused by one particular group.", "Yeah and the kids could have ended it with a lunch even after they were there. That gives two options. A amazing brain washing, or a real fear of that man. And it maybe not an all or one, but this should have been a huge red flag and things should have never gotten so far.", "I think the main difference is Dems tend to actually work towards DOING more about it. Whereas you've almost never seen corruption a republican won't just whine about to win an election and never propose anything to fix it - except for saying that the government shouldn't!", "Circumcision is not the same as reproductive rights for women. Circumcisions are not something pushed by the state and legally forced on male babies at birth, it's a parents decision.", "The choice between stepping on dog shit or jumping head first into a septic tank of human shit...I'll take the dog shit on my shoe thanks.", "My mother told us many bad things about our father when they separated \"You remember the time your dad pushed you off the porch and you broke your arm?\" and I tell you, 7yo me DID remember. I told our GAL on his first meeting with us that I hated my dad, he would hit us, he broke my arm at my sisters birthday party... next meeting he had a video my Dad provided of the day I broke my arm... There is 5yo me standing on the guard rail on the porch (b/c I was an adventurous idiot kid) and I kept almost losing my balance and windmilling my arms, Dad reaches for me as I go over and catches my shirt, and loses me. I doubled down \"No, he faked that video. NO I must have broke my arm twice.\" (Fast forward 5 years and SHE had put me through a window once and thrown no less than 3 skillets that had hit me)\n\nEverything my mother ever told me was BS. My dad DID pay his child support (He has pay stubs to prove it). My stepdad got a brand new Harley Davidson and my mom got a new van one year, a year later they went to Hawaii on vacation and left us with her mom and dad for 3 weeks... There were months on end that we didn't have breakfast and ate PB&Js, microwaved cheese sandwiches or peanut butter and marshmallow fluff sandwiches for lunch and dinner... McDonald's or KFC for her and my stepfather. (Don't even ask about the green-bean summer). Thrift store shopping for us but she ALWAYS had nice things.\n\nThe worst part is that once I started to catch on, she showed me that he had been found as an unfit parent in the divorce settlement and that if I complained, they would take me and my brothers and sisters and split us up and put us in different homes.\n\n(To much to go into, but she even (MAYBE?) brainwashed my brother into claiming REALLY bad things about our uncle.)", "Exactly. How this twat of a judge didn’t stop & realize that “oh, shit. These kids are willing to be institutionalized rather than have a relationship with their father. Maybe there’s something to this.” Fuck her. I hope she gets all the bad karma.", "Sounds to me like this entire case was a shit show. I don’t fault the judge at all. \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5_M47H6GYA", "How is it objectively wrong? Do you have evidence that Judge Gorcyca is a Democrat or Liberal?", "Which one has more corruption?", "Wait who's the one that was falling asleep? Was it grandma or was it mom? \n\nI thought you were saying the grandma sounds like a heroin addict. I took OPs comment as his grandma was the one falling asleep and not his mom who he was taken from. \n\nLike he was taken from his mom, given to g-ma, and g-ma was a shitty guardian. I thought they were just both terrible guardians. \n\nMaybe OP really was saying his mom was the one that fell asleep and neglected OP and I just misunderstood.", "Lol ok. When did i ever mention racism or the level of any infractions that the US commits other than to say, our government is pretty shitty? You can miss me with that projection garbage lol", "I don't see how I sound like that at all. I acknowledge that people can work together as a collective in a free society. I'm not personally a collectivist.\n I've never known someone to be labeled as a corporatist simply because they argue against corporatocracy and some persons having more rights than others.", ">ThAt MaKeS iT oK\n\nI never said that, Professor McCheese. I said he admitted he was wrong within 24 hours while the previous dumb fuck has never admitted to being wrong in his entire life.", "Honest question, is it truly bipartisan or is it \"Bipartisan\" like the Supreme Court supposedly is?", "The parents are the \"children\" that need to be reprimanded. This type of situation should never exist. If children aren't wanting to be with one of their parents in a divorce situation than either A. one of them is actually abusive and the kid has an argument or B. one of them is a manipulative piece of shit and makes the kid dislike the other.", "The beatings will continue until morale improved", "You didn't say it, you implied it. Apologizing doesn't change the fact that he's a notorious racist prick, and people need to be allowed to call him out on it without dumb shits like you bringing up Trump to draw attention away.", "So you jump to conclusions and make huge statements based off zero knowledge. And project what you went thru on to them. It seems like some introspection could help. The judicial system or your ex doesn't make you do crazy things with their actions, your response is your choice.", "Of course this is in Oakland county. Their judicial system is a whole other breed of fucked up.", "you're telling me this is a person? https://imgur.com/a/AbZ60gn", "Yeah, but you don’t solve that by cracking down on three children who may or may not have been brainwashed, like seriously, wtf.", "Again, you're downplaying it. I literally just said Republicans are worse and you're still accusing me of saying they're comparable. Republicans are worse, but that doesn't change that Democrats are shit.", "I sincerely hope that the slap on that judge's wrist hurt for five or maybe even 10 minutes. Justice served. /s", "I wasn't debating the etymology of the term \"deep state\", but the scholarly semantics. I know what happened in Turkey. I have studied it, especially in terms of Kemalism and Gladio. Daniele Ganser was once a prominent writer regarding Gladio, but the last times I checked in, he'd turned into a full-blown kook. In the United States, \"deep state\" was often used as a reference to the confluence of federally employed agents alongside a web of \"ex-\"agents and contractors. In other words, the non-visible or barely visible network of actors working on the borderline of (and/or beyond) legality to advance conservative interests, such as with Iran-Contra and Watergate.\n\nAs for the people on the right: they attempted an overthrow of a democratically elected goverment based on delusional, paranoid hate-mongering and a co-optation of the very jargon once used by left-oriented scholars to describe the systems of repression deployed by the likes of Nixon and Reagan, and the sole person responsible for that co-optation is Glenn Greenwald. GDELT data proves this, it's not up for debate.\n\nEdit: spelling.", "> \"I never thought they'd choose jail over being with their dad.\"\n\n> Does that not fucking concern you?? A child just said their dad was violent. It's possible he was coached, but you want to take that chance? What a POS. /u/Thoughtofajoke\n\n______\n\nYou're completely dismissing the prior court appearances, the multiple filings and investigations by and of the mother and father. You're completely ignoring the experts that weighed in on this case.\n\nAfter alllllllllllllllll of that, the judge ordered the children to call their father on the phone. They chose jail instead of a phone call. That's insanity.\n\nThe judge rightly ruled these children should be punished for violation of court order.\n\nThe Supreme court wasn't going to punish the judge for her actions, the judgement itself, but for the words and tone of voice she used.\n\nDo you still not understand what she did was okay with the state's supreme court?\n\nTone and specific wording is what she was going to be censured for. Not the ruling.\n\n______\n\nI don't care what your reasoning is, because defying a judge's direct order is punishable by jailtime; period.", "proper cunt ye'", "Didn't Donald Trump promise to jail Hillary Clinton when he became President roughly 5 years ago?", "Man, she says that she never would have thought that having 2 decisions, one is be nice to your dad and the other going to jail would result in them choosing jail.\n\nThe three kids choose juvenile detention over being with their dad, what should that tell you??\n\nDamn...", ">Automatically assuming any corruption you see on the internet is the republicans fault is ignorant.\n\nIt's also not a bad guess most of the time", "I downvoted you purely because of your whiney, unrelated rant at the end of your comment. Nothing you said is relevant to this post.", "fuck this lady and our entire judicial system, shit is a joke", "This is the absolute cringiest thing I’ve ever seen upvoted this high.", "I can’t hear you from up on your soapbox. My god I hate the GOP too, but you aren’t changing the world through a r/videos comment stump speech lol", "Interesting and highly concerning that her solution to children being brainwashed is to put then in detention. \n\nMy mom was the woman this judge is talking about. Lying, manipulating, brainwashing. The last thing myself and my siblings needed at that moment in our childhood was to be blamed for it and sent away to be punished for it. \n\nAbsolutely disgusting and it feels like an angry adult not getting their way so they try to force control by scaring children.", "People argue stats back and forth for years and the only thing we know for sure is that most politicians from both parties might as well have dump trucks full of money being emptied on their lawns because it isn't subtle at all.", "Only on shitty new reddit", "You apologize when someone's been aggrieved you pompous ass. The United States has aggrieved PLENTY of people. How about you drop the ego and recognize that everyone makes mistakes and creates problems? And yes, you were projecting by inserting your thoughts and assuming my own when i gave none with which to insert your own ideas... \"For example\" \"projecting\". Again... Miss me with your garbage takes.", "This is like a bad movie. I can't believe it's real life.", "The key point here is that the kids are basing their objections towards their father based on claims of violence from the mother that the kids cannot substantiate.\n\nTo a judge there are few things that seem more contemptible than making a statement that tries to reintroduce unproven hearsay as a basis for the statement.\n\nThat kid really pushed her legal buttons, and she was already convinced the mom had brainwashed the kids, further proof set her off.", "It's actually just a little wordplay-based joke riffing on a typo, not another stroke for the partisan circlejerk, thanks.", "See, and I am not exactly sure if I feel/sound crackpot for thinking along the same lines. 5 years though? Yeah, I suppose I could see it if WW3 kicks off with China/Taiwan, Israel/Iran+Syria, Russia/Ukraine, North Korea/ South Korea all going off around the same time... Western powers would be spread awfully damned thinly to prevent or participate in all of those theatres in a meaningful capacity if/when the USA is unable or unwilling due to civil unrest, especially surrounding the 2024 elections, for example.", "How dare they question the wisdom of a judge? That would be like questioning a doctor, or even a policeman!", "That is so far beyond the scope of her duty.\n\nAs a judge you are not to be emotionally involved what so ever.\n\nThis has obviously changed....so uh..change it back.", "What does that shit have to do with anything you freaking loon", "Because of the power she represents. God doesn't make no mistakes.", "But then she wouldn’t get to grandstand.", "Its a man's body that is forcefully mutilated for profit. Women's bodies are protected by law. \n\nMy body ny choice until it comes to went forcing thoer preference on a man.", "The amount of condensation in your comments is great, you seem to suffer greatly from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect\n\nSure you're \"attending a pretty prestigious uni\" good for you, that contributes to your Dunning Kruger, assuming that's not \"alternate facts\" which is typical for conservatives. Care to share where and what you're studying? Any proof?", "\"When I backed these children into a corner, they reacted like children!\"", "It is nonpartisan, because 7 of the 9 members are appointed by state courts and the state bar. And the 2 appointed by the Governor, obviously a minority of the commission, have to be laypeople. For example, the current gubernatorial appointees are a business consultant and a nonprofit HR director.", "You do understand they all answer to the same people right? The whole point was to divide and it worked too well", "I was really hoping that kid would flip her off. The kids had a reason not to talk to their father and no one should be able to make them just so he can feel good. It is obvious he doesn't believe he has done anything wrong even tho the kids say he is violent.", "Yeah, to be honest I feel very similarly. I use humor as a coping mechanism a lot but I've had a lot of the same feelings of hopelessness and dread for our national and global situation the last several years.\n\nI am not confident in a positive future for either of them.", ">\"As a woman\" \n\nreally?", "Nope I'm just repeating the rallying cry of Democrats.", "I order the judge to love my anus because she’s gonna be sucking the shit out of it… would be my responsibility.", "That wasn't a typo. QOP is just QAnon + GOP.\n\nNothing partisan about reality. Which is that the GOP, in its current state, is the most dangerous and corrupt political institution in American history. \n\nThey purge voters registrations, attempt insurrection to prevent election certifications, abuse their power to hurt people who need help, and allow pedophiles and pederasts to run in their party unopposed and well funded. \n\nDemocratic corruption is child's play compared yo the well-oiled GOP machine that coopts the most extreme, ignorant, and malicious demographics into one umbrella of hatred and lies.", "I would be a little relieved if I knew that fact, but that's not what I've seen so far.", "Your whatabout is still not addressing his mismanagement of COVID that led to thousands of deaths nor his abuse of power to help friends and family. Both of which I find far worse than his rape vibe. And both which are still swept under the rug by all Democrats. No accountability. Just like Pelosi's stock portfolio.", ">As a woman, I refuse to be silenced anymore.\n\nNobody knows or cares that you are a woman. Stop the victim mentality.", "I struggle to delineate the final transition from democracy to illiberal democracy to no longer democratic with respect to the United States, but in my opinion the phase \"illiberal democracy\" has already started.\n\nThere are reasons why this debate is problematic, as the United States sees itself still as the global guardian of freedom and democracy, and to turn that attention truly inward would require an acceptance of the dire status quo. Which is turn, given the widespread prevalence of nationalist exceptionalism, would trigger a crisis of cognitive dissonance. In other words, even if the United States ever reached the third stage, that is \"no longer truly democratic\" in any reasonable sense of the word, how would we know? Would any authoritative anglophone sources even be prepared to admit it? I don't think so. More likely, you'd get a Putin-like situation where you would loudly proclaim dedication to human rights while endeavouring for the exact opposite in actual reality. (This too, is already partly the case.) In any non-democratic society, you cannot expect such a society to properly assess itself, other than confused platitudes and tut-tutting alongside waves of brutal excess and an endless clinging to the tattered remains of civic society as well as \"the glory days\".\n\nI don't think any semblance of truth and fact as we know it will exist at that point. In any case, I expect a \"Ship of Theseus\" / \"Sorites Paradox\"-like conundrum at some point.", "This is what the dumbfuck enlightened centrist both siders don’t understand. Both sides are bad, but to very different degrees. Republicans are a cancer on this country that is killing us. Democrats are just corrupt twats that need to be removed, every country deals with them. The only countries that deal with what our Republicans have become are places you don’t want to be comparing your country to.", "I remember him making comments about that but never saw it as a campaign promise. Just a fun thing to say to get the crowds excited. \n\nDid you take that seriously?", "It's extremely difficult to figure out political affiliations of judges & lawyers from information available on line. Grant and Sawyer are republicans, Cortes is not, but the others it's basically impossible to tell.", "She doesn't sound real. Are we sure she's not the fictional creation of Lemony Snicket?", "What a vile cretin that judge really is", "> the judge being insane for ordering the kids to have a healthy relationship with their dad and threatening them with juvi if they don't ...\n\nDid you watch the video? The judge explained her reasoning. She has never had kids choose option 2 before. I don't think she is insane. I think she made the incorrect decision of pulling the trigger. She should of just let herself lose face.\n\nFrom reading the comments and getting more of the story, it seems like the mom was alienating the kids so the last thing the court should do is put them back in the care of their mother. The kids don't want to go to the father. Putting them somewhere else is what had to be done. It definitely shouldn't have been juvie though.", "lol you really live in a happy little bubble don’t you", "Ok, kiddo.\n\nIf you honestly didn't care, you wouldn't have made either of your comments, and you wouldn't have brought up what I would and wouldn't be pleased about.\n\nMaybe you should take a nap and calm down a little.", ">Surprisingly, the judge who was putting kids in jail without representation actually received a pretty decent amount of time. Not for the violating of rights though, it was for fraud, money laundering, and tax evasion. He received a 28 year sentence and will be 85 by the time he gets out.\n\nThats more time than a seditionist.", "Fuck this. Throw her in jail for 17 days. Full on adult jail. And if she refuses to see things your way keep her there until she does. That is literally what she tried to do to CHILDREN. Maybe our judicial system wouldn’t be so fucked he if our judges actually faced consequences, in fact it’s a problem this country faces in general. People in positions of power need to face strict punishment for abusing their power.", "How is this political?", "ohhhhhh how this comment made my day", "Lol yes, everyone has political affiliations. \"Nonpartisan\" doesn't mean \"participants had politics wiped from their minds\".", "that was a very short hop and a skip from \"ah people disagree with me probably because of political affiliations\" to \"i'm a woman and i'm oppressed because of abortion laws that have nothing to do with OP's vid\"", "I said Trump is rising to power the same way Hitler did, that's not even close to saying that Trump is capable of doing everything Hitler did.\n\nHitler rose to power by uniting the gullible extremists, similar to the neo-nazis who worship Trump. What some idiot said to smear Obama is irrelevant because Obama doesn't have a massive group of heavily armed idiots waiting for his command.\n\nAlso, those detention centers are pretty similar to what the concentration camps looked like when they first opened.", "BONE!?", "Ive seen this woman before, its not the first time she's done something like this", "I love reddit comments. I can tell you didn't read any more about the story.", "Did you dad have any visitation rights? Did you ever see him after the divorce?", "I don’t condone doxing nor do I actively pursue it. But if you hurt children, you deserve the worst of the worst.", "Also you still have to pay for the public defender", "That's irrelevant. The judge making a stupid decision in this one time doesn't change the fact that the mom or kids could have brought forth evidence of abusive at any time.\n\nIf there was evidence of abuse and it was ignored, then the video would be about that.", "Nah. You're comparing a C+ to an F- and saying they're the same thing\n\nNeither are GOOD but one is very obviously WORSE", "That's funny. I'm smack dab in the middle and I hear them say the same shit about Dems. Funny how that works. \n\nBut you go ahead and believe that, as an example, Biden had NOTHING to do with some of the shit policies that he is actively trying to fight, and in some cases, defend. Even though he said he would support it. Legalizing marijuana is an example. \n\n And Harris? Don't get me started on that hypocrite. How TF do you defend someone who openly talked staright shit about about their \"running mate\" and you expect the world to believe she's trustworthy? Please. \n\nAnd trust me. Im not here to defend Trump and pence as that shit show is on another level but please spare us the Photoshop halo you want to put over Biden and Harris. Trump was an example of how fucked up the democracy is in this nation.", "What a God awful human being, so enamored with her power that she’d send children to juvie just for not talking to a violent father.", "While the mother might have done some children Alienation, wtf was this judge? Can’t believe the sanction is that small for something like this, especially after standing by it, it shows that is wasn’t just a bad day she was having.", "/r/redditmoment", "Remember when Bernie lost the primaries to bullshit corruption and then Hilary lost the election?\n\nPepperidge farms remembers", "Judges’ wield lot of power. Are there any checks and balance?", "true but when one side does it 10x more than the other, its a rather safe bet. look at indictments per admin, take out the trump one if you want, republicans are so far worse its not even in the same universe.\n\nfrom tea pot dome, to the red scare to nixon to reagan and iran contra, its NOT EVEN IN THE SAME FUCKING UNIVERSE.", "/u/Macaroni-and- is in full blind rage right now. This comment section is a mess of uninformed people. Which is normally fine, but these uninformed people are indignant and hate being corrected.", "Further proof that women are unfit for positions of power and ruling. Male and females are different no matter how brainwashed society is. And it's okay that we are. But plainly, women make decisions, and act on emotions, not logic.\nAnyone who has been around their own mother a while knows thst plain enough.\nGo ahead I'm ready for my ban asshat reddit.", "Thank you for fighting the good fight in this thread. People some how think they have a better grasp on this case than the court. \n\nHeck, they think they have a better grasp on the case than the examiner and ethics board as well.", "I don’t think anyone assumes that Democrats are a perfect party. It just so happens that I don’t see lots of news about Dems disenfranchising thousands of voters or covering up police brutality.", "This has been on going for 8 years. This is surely not the first mistake the courts have made. And it's absolutely relevant. This shows the incompetence of the entire judicial circuit it took place in.", "Oh, is that the excuse now?\n\nHow about the border wall Mexico was going to pay for?\n\nAlso not a campaign promise and just something to get the crowd excited with?", "Your life experience is more accurate to determine what happened with this family than 8 years of court to determine what happened with this family. Got it.", "Which is why AOC needs to run", "Based on facts and evidence, not pulling stuff out of thin air. She had other options, but she chose to send the kids to juvenile, before investigating a single bit if they are manipulated or not - at least what we gathered from this video and how she went up for review based on her ruling.\n\nAnd regardless of everything the mother or father might have done, the children are victims in either case and should not be punished ever in such cases. They should and are untouchable in reasonable courts without power hungry idiots sitting behind the counters.", "Why are you trying to belittle and silence this woman? Are you a sexist or something?", "[Are you telling me this is not a human?](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.cca1a1a1942a481a3eef2e6803c907da?rik=l6PZdCaunMp2FA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fstylesatlife.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2014%2f08%2fFetus-month-6.jpg&ehk=sTV2t3MVXKuQgM3x4Nj6mfLG1J3ZrPYVEflGUiQ%2bTas%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)", "If you yell at the moon long enough, it eventually listens.", "Republicans are corrupt... Democrats are useless...", ">at least what we gathered from this video\n\nYou mean you have no idea what facts and evidence she has reviewed prior to that moment, but she's the one pulling stuff out of thing air?", "Since you're so sure about this, can you find me anything to back up your conclusion? For whatever reason the examiner didn't bring it up to the ethics board that there was violence evidence that was ignored. You could totally own me with this. \n\nHumans can be terrible in their leaps of logic. \"This is surely not the first mistake the courts have made\" doesn't mean you can conclude that the court fucked up in handling violence evidence. \n\nAgain, what's more likely? \"violence evidence was brought before the court and ignored. The mom's lawyer did nothing about it. Then later the examiner didn't bring this before the ethics board when she was already in the process of bringing less severe charges before the ethics board about the judge\" or \"any violence accusations was properly handled by the judge.\"\n\nWhy do you do this? The judge did something horrible, but then you got to pretend she did something way worse. She's already a bad person for sending a kid to juvie over not talking to their dad. Don't make yourself look back by pretending she ignore violence evidence.", "Take it up with the parents, they are the ones forcing the procedure on children it has nothing to do with \"my body my choice\".", "Dumb whore should rot in jail and then hell", "> . Both your political parties are shit and mostly corporatist, but the Republicans are far worse. In practically every respect. That includes corruption. And I've studied the United States as a morbid hobby for well over 20 years.\n\nMaybe study a bit about [Tammany Hall.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammany_Hall#:~:text=Tammany%20Hall%2C%20also%20known%20as,1789%2C%20as%20the%20Tammany%20Society.)", "What a fucking cunt. I hope she lives the rest of her life alone.", "It's pretty fucking clear that none of our elected officials care about the American people", "Imagine someone telling you that you MUST enjoy a certain food. It just doesn't work that way.", "Listen, I get your point. \n\nBut harping on Democrats in the face of modern Republicanism is naive at best, and intentionally divisive at worst. There's every day political crap on one side, but there's death, treason, and insurrection on the other.\n\nIf your kitchen is on fire, do you sit there and let it burn down your house because your only fire extinguisher says the contents may cause cancer? No, you put out the damn fire and worry about the fallout later.\n\nPriorities. Get these modern day confederates out of the equation first, then let's work on fixing the things that should have been fixed a long time ago.", "Yeah. King Solomon knew what to do about that.", "When my parents divorced, I was sat in a room between my mother and father and told to choose who I wanted to live with, bit of a huge decision to put on a 9 year old", "Well sadly her 500 upvotes confirmed her assumption anyways.", "The arguments here are \"I feel X. Therefore Y must be true.\" Where there is no relationship between X and Y. Yes, this judge was an ass and shouldn't have locked up the kid. But even the appellate courts said that the child should have been removed from the mother's care for evaluation. They just disagreed on juvenile detention being the correct location to remove the child to.", "Antivaxxer says what?", "Damn, how much money you got to have an 8 year divorce?", " No you’re not lol, you’re acting as stupid as your point.", "No, that's not a human.\n\nIs my picture a human?", "Bizarre, but I think the important thing is that even if the kids were brainwashed, they were victims of their mother, not the ones who should be held in contempt.", "The judge has it within her power to order a psych eval to prove that claim.\n\nThe solution to \"brainwashing\" isn't locking minors in kid jail until they are adults.\n\nThe fact that the judge faced disciplinary hearings over this shows it wasn't the right call.", "Why are you projecting your anger onto me? I didn't have any beef with you until you started throwing a tantrum.", "Yeah as far as I remember mexico paying for the wall was never a campaign promise. Just something fun to say. \n\nNone of this is an excuse.\n\nYou're repeating what the media told you because you never in your life stopped to think for yourself. Stop letting other people think for you. I'm sure you are possibly capable of thinking for yourself.", "\"You cheated on me? When I specifically asked you NOT to??\"", "Why even bother asking if a 5 week old fetus is a human, when you don't even acknowledge that a 5 month old fetus that is viable outside of the womb is a person.", "This is America.... it's so fucked up.", "Try Earlier, think Nixon.", "They should’ve made the judge spend the same amount of time in jail is each child had to spend", "> with 4 members being appointed by the various state judicial divisions, 3 members being appointed by the state bar\n\nYour claim is somehow that these people can't have political orientations? lol?", "This is the attitude that cost Hillary the election. Don't tell my my loving wife who works tirelessly for the homeless shelter and rejects any stereotype, judging people on merit, is deplorable because she votes republican. Well, not if you want my vote, or the vote of anyone else who cares for someone who is actually a nice person but votes republican.", "Just watch the video.", "Ok, so they totally could be Republicans? Some absolutely are. That's the claim that you are trying to argue against.", ">\nAnyone who believes the Dems are \"just as bad\" as the depraved Republican party are either really, really stupid, or else lying.\n\nYes, because this sounds like the rhetoric of a reasonable individual...\n\n\"You either agree with me or you're obviously the enemy\"\n\nI used to be on the left. Please stop deluding yourself. The party has completely abandoned all its principles over the last few decades. And now the left is eating itself as it can't keep up with its own self-made contradictions.\n\nBoth sides ARE hypocritical, but the right doesn't control the institutions of culture - i.e. TV/Hollywood, music, drama, social media, etc. With only radio being about 50/50, and religious attendance rapidly approaching zero with each passing year - These are the institutions that educate an individual on what the surrounding culture believes in. Your parents and church may have some effect, but more and more children are born in broken, dysfunctional, single parent homes devoid of ideological diversity.\n\nSo where do they get their education to be well socialized? School, media, friends (who also use the same school and media imput). However, the left has had a monopoly (dare I say, systemically discriminated against conservative values) for well over 50 years.", "It would be some kind of astrological coincidence for two political parties to be perfectly exactly equally evil, wouldn't it?", "Because your answer is important for the sake of our discussion. By your judgment, is my picture a human?", "So what was a campaign promise he made?", "You are right and I don’t know why this isn’t talked about more.\n\nThe entire divorce system is messed up but this is the biggest problem within it by far. I’m a woman with a close male friend who has joint custody with an extremely manipulative ex (with borderline personality disorder). The conditions of his life have been excruciating for a decade. \n\nIt’s so weird, because when I was growing up with a single mom in the 70 literally everything was stacked against mothers. Mine had no power or resources; it was lucky that my father chose to live overseas and have nothing to do with me. \n\nIt flipped sometime during the 80s, and the pendulum swung far too hard the other way. Why can’t it just be fucking logical and fair to everyone?\n\nMy deepest sympathies, especially to your daughter.", "I think the worst part is that she clearly knows how bad Children’s Village is and yet her focus is not on making it better for children but rather embracing it’s awfulness and using it to threaten children with. “You want to go to the bathroom in front of other people?”", "No. It works exactly the way it was designed.", "Hah, talk about rent free.", "After ~~Trump~~ Bush vs Gore, I hold zero respect for the entire justice system…I guess justice was part of the swamp.", "Oh man, reading through this case reminds me why I hate divorce cases. This divorce is insane. Mom has spent $400K in legal fees and hired a PR firm. That's crazy. I don't know whose side to take. But after reading about this case, it seems both parents are a piece of work. I think the judge had just had enough. That was stupid to put the kids in jail. But, it looks like the parents are using the kids as tools to get revenge on each other. I could be wrong, but that happens a lot in my experience. I like to tell my client that their hate for their former spouse can't be stronger than the love for their kids. I guess that isn't happening here.", "I mean, you're missing a lot of the nuance behind this. Do you think the public generally understands the legal system? And not the law-and-order-SVU, can't-call-the-cops-after-48-hours, avoid-prison-by-pleading-insanity, everyone-gets-one-phone-call fake shit. But like actually understands how common law precedent and the appellate court system in the US works? Because I sure as heck don't. A vast majority of the population seems at least to widely misunderstand most legal theories and court procedures. \n\n>the practical reality that we see overwhelmingly defeats the theoretical intended boon\n\nWhat are you trying to say here? We do NOT have a (national or state) judiciary in the US that can decide laws based in spirit, and judges ARE totally unaccountable to the public even in states with elections for judges. You do know that there are many states that hold elections for all levels of judgeship, and they have even worse judges than states that appoint in many cases, right? Some states don't even have a law degree requirement. Both systems, electing and appointing, suck and I'm not sure what silver bullet you think you have here but I'd love to hear it.\n\nI'm reminded of the conversation behind term limits. It'd be great to not have people be able to consolidate power, but it also keeps good people who want to spend their lives helping people from becoming competent public servants. I used to live in Montana, and most of the people I knew when I was involved in politics there thought term limits were terrible because it kept them scrambling to find talent that would want to work for little pay and in the public eye.\n\nEdit: annnnnd crickets. Let this be a lesson about how little the average person knows about the legal system - not even enough to defend their statements", "Bitches be stupid", "Today, on Judge Karen...", "No", "How do you know he's abusive? How? You're so damn sure he's abusive just like assholes are so damn sure \"she's lying\" in rape claims.", "That biblical allegory wasn’t meant for deciding parentage. No comment on the rest of your post. Just needed to point that out.", "> The relationship is incidental though. An act can be illegal and immoral, illegal and moral, legal and immoral, or legal and moral.\n\nI don't think that's because the relationship between morals and law is incidental, but rather because attempts to structure society based on morals can be flawed, individuals applying laws can be flawed, and the system can become corrupted.", "So you're mad because \"deep state\" is only applicable in your mind to right wingers. You believe it should only be used against people you personally disagree with. That's more or less the primary point you're making giving you said:\n\n> co-optation of the very jargon once used by left-oriented scholars to describe the systems of repression deployed by the likes of Nixon and Reagan", "Some people get pity points for appearing \"oppressed\", as if they were unjustly placed in this position due to no fault of their own.\n\nEveryone likes an underdog story I suppose...", "How was this dismissed?? She should never be allowed to be in the courtroom unless as a defendant or in the pews behind for a close family member. Also, now that the light has been shown on Michigan’s Supreme Courts corruption, it’s more believable that the mass voter fraud evidence they brought to the courts there in 2020 weren’t even looked at and were dismissed for “lack of evidence” more like ignoring the evidence", "So people mutilating a persons body has nothing to do with my body my choice ? That is the very definition of my body , my choice. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nSecondly why do women have protection against genital mutilation by law and yet men do not ? \n\n&#x200B;\n\nYou seem like a misandrist to me.", "\"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong\"", "This is why feminist groups fight so hard against making alienation illegal - women are often given more time, and will simply leverage children against their fathers in an already unfair court system.\n\nI'm not at all surprised that this judge was just fed up with seeing men getting destroyed by the bias in the legal system. This is just an example of a judge using what limited time she had to make children see that they were being manipulated.", "No. I'm just confused about your tantrum.\n\nWhy are you so angry? What triggered you?", "Just like you have no evidence, I have no evidence of them not fucking things up.\n\nBut, I'll tell you that I personally know plenty of kids that have been abused by a parent or both and it is INCREDIBLY hard to get it actually actioned on. Hell, there's entire documentary series about kids in these situations, so anyone can see how criminally bad a lot of these situations are that these kinds of kids go through.\n\nYou are welcome to look at the other sources in this very thread about how the dad is connected to powerful people in the Middle East.\n\n>Again, what's more likely? \"violence evidence was brought before the court and ignored.\n\nWhat's more likely is that the violence evidence never made it to the court. \n\nLook, not for nothing, but most early-teens kids in these situations aren't wildly making shit up. Just because the dad is violent also doesn't mean the kids were on the receiving end of the violence. It could have been walls, their possessions, many other things.\n\nInstead of thinking the kids are making shit up to not spend time with their dad, why not take the kids for their word? Because the judge who shows a clear lack of common sense is claiming they're brainwashed by the mother?\n\nLol.", "Thanks much for posting the link to the Michigan Supreme Court opinion. Primary source material like this is absolutely essential to better understand what actually happened and why. Helped a great deal to clarify the actual issues regarding the Judge's actions and why decisions about her misconduct/penalty were made the way they were made.", "> So people mutilating a persons body has nothing to do with my body my choice ?\n\nNo, it doesn't. \n\n> That is the very definition of my body , my choice.\n\nNo, it isn't. You are trying to change the meaning of the message to fit your narrative to lend it legitimacy.\n\n> You seem like a misandrist to me.\n\nYour opinion doesn't matter to me.", "Thanks for putting into text pretty much exactly what I think. I’d like to see this on /r/bestofreddit", "The process is called \"co-option\" or \"co-optation\".\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-option\n\nA similar thing happened to Ron Paul and his tea party movement in 2006 and 2007. Not that I'm a fan of his, but it happened.\n\nYes, given what the term has been used for since, I'm mad about that. I thought that was pretty clear.", "> but too often the abusive one is the puppeteer pulling the strings, planting fear and hatred in an impressionable mind.\n\nSo it could be the dad pulling the judge's strings.", "Nonpartisan, meaning the work they do and the manner in which they're selected is...nonpartisan.", "Judges are horribly evil corrupt scum. Total egomaniac bastards who are extremely destructive.", "I never said the Dems were all that great.\n\nYou're still doing it, but using a lot more words.", "Yes, that is a wonderful and naive concept that has nothing to do with whether it is Republican controlled or not.\n\nRepublicans have shown over and over again that they don't give a shit about ever being nonpartisan.", "The american justus system. Men and Women in dark robes telling us how to live our lives with zero repercussions for the constant overreach and abuse of power they commit against us on a DAILY basis.", "At least biden what? Why are you defending biden, because you dislike Trump? So if I criticize or insult Biden I'm automatically the opposition to you? Let that sink in for a minute before you respond.", "It is delporable to continue to take concrete actions to make the world a worse place (voting Republican) while simultaneously doing a bit of charity work to make oneself feel better about it.\n\nEdit: changed to not be a direct statement about a specific person.\n\nEdit 2: missed a word in your comment, changed to reflect.\n\nEdit 3: and no, the attitude that cost Hillary the election is rampant sexism.", "You're behind the 8 ball here if you think the claim is \"there are probably a couple of people who happen to be Republicans who had a hand in this\". No, they're saying this must be a Republican board full of corrupt Republicans doing Republican things when, in reality, it's a nonpartisan board with most members we don't know the political affiliation of, and members mostly appointed by nonpartisan officials, and we don't know which members made the decision.", "Makes me wonder wtf their agenda is.", "> No, they're saying this must be a Republican board full of corrupt Republicans doing Republican\n\nQuote that part? I don't see it.\n\n> in reality, it's a nonpartisan board with most members we don't know the political affiliation of, and members mostly appointed by nonpartisan officials, and we don't know which members made the decision.\n\nSounds like a wonderful way to hide corruption to me, letting people defend them with literal ignorance.", "39, how cute.", "Dad’s new girlfriend sucks", "It's not Republican controlled. It's not Democrat controlled. It's nonpartisan and the way they keep it nonpartisan is by having almost all of the members selected by the various judicial bodies of the state.\n\nIf you believe otherwise, instead of speaking vaguely like you don't actually have any familiarity with this body and Michigan in general, show specifically how the nonpartisan process that selects 7 of the 9 members is an illusion of nonpartisanship.", "What lie?", ">Quote that part?\n\nI think you would need a hands-on reading comprehension lesson or politics lesson to not see that, when someone replies to a charge of corruption by saying it must be the Republicans. At the very least, you would need to show that a majority of people who made this decision are Republicans and made the decision based on politics.\n\n>Sounds like a wonderful way to hide corruption to me\n\nAs I said in the other thread you started, if you believe that, instead of speaking vaguely like you don't actually have any familiarity with this body and Michigan in general, show specifically how the nonpartisan process that selects 7 of the 9 members is an illusion of nonpartisanship.", "Now you're avoiding the question.\n\nWhy are you so triggered?", "> It's not Republican controlled. It's not Democrat controlled.\n\nEvidence?\n\n>It's nonpartisan\n\nNo such thing.\n\n>the way they keep it nonpartisan is be having almost all of the members selected by the various judicial bodies of the state.\n\nJudicial bodies are not nonpartisan.\n\n>If you believe otherwise, instead of speaking vaguely like you don't actually have any familiarity with this body and Michigan in general, show specifically how the nonpartisan process that selects 7 of the 9 members is an illusion of nonpartisanship.\n\nIt is your claim. You prove that they are nonpartisan. I reject the claim that Republicans can be nonpartisan on an institutional level.", "> suspected \n\nShe sounded very sure of herself, and it looks like she was equally wrong. Maybe she could not admit to herself that her initial intuition was incorrect.", "lol \n\nOkay dude. \"They say they are nonpartian and I have no evidence for that, but they said it so it is reality! And if you doubt my claims, that I have backed up with no actual evidence, then you must be ignorant!\"\n\nFuck off", "You should have considered that I was speaking in the present tense, and that I did, in fact imply the Democratic party was corrupt. More specifically, I'm referring to the entire post-WWII period, even more specifically, right on and after the implementation of the [Southern Strategy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy). Which was an enormous paradigm shift, or as Wikipedia calls it, political realignment, in contemporary American politics which I well know Republican ideologues online vociferously deny to the point of outright negationism. Which is how Republican ideologues justify claiming Abraham Lincoln as one of their own, and a major pillar of the Lost Cause, no matter how confused and contradictory.\n\nIn any case, in the post-WWII phase, an enormous radicalisation took place in Republican ranks which turned the party into a monstrously oppressive and corrupt force, from McCarthy to Goldwater, to Nixon, Jerry Fallwell and Reagan, to Gingrich, to Bush 43, to eventually Trump, the worst, most morally compromised president in U.S. history, save perhaps for Andrew Jackson.", "Judging by the replies, I'd say the negative reactions outweigh whatever value those votes got her.", "Go suck joe bidens dick then. I dont give a shit, and more than half the population just live their lives. The government is corrupt, both parties. Maybe theirs individuals in both parties who actually give a shit. But the top positions always have the most disgusting people in power. Come at me bro.", "I'm sorry.", "> brainwashed by mom is 100%a likely possibility. \n\nAbusive father is equally likely.", "They are nonpartisan. That's what the process they set up, where you have members appointed by various different nonpartisan government entities, is called, a nonpartisan appointment process. If you believe otherwise, show that it's partisan. You shouldn't get mad when asked to do that. You should have the information before you even form that opinion.", "But you’re definitely playing the odds.", "Thanks Blago", "Especially in family court.", "So, I see you went vaguer. You're not really showing that you know what you're talking about. They are nonpartisan, this is a nonpartisan process. You believe something is untoward, so you need to show specific reasons for believing that.", "It’s disgusting that this fucking bitch thinks she has the authority to command people to love other people. That’s so fucking open ended, inappropriate, overstepping, and least of all difficult to determine it’s not sensible in the least and a huge fucking stomp on civil liberties. I fucking hate how we just let these fuckers who have arbitrarily been put in power walk all over us.", "The fact that corporations can lobby congress and sway law making isn’t seen as corruption astounds me", "Why are you scared of answering the question?\n\nAre you an incel? That would explain what triggered the tantrum.", "Just remember, she's a woman who refuses to be silenced (as they get upvotes from the reddit echo chamber because it's ok to be ignorant towards someone so long as they're republican on reddit).\n\nsource: american who has nothing to do with politics and is sick of reddit being full of american politics but seriously can we go back before trump", "Look some humans have bowel control problems but if I find shit on my floor I’m looking at my dog first", "I'm sure in the judge's case, they'd have a wonderful night, for one night only, and then refuse to listen to anything that happens to anyone else, on any other night. \n\nI'm yet to meet a judge who wasn't the most close-minded, judgemental and opinionated personality type around. The position attracts egotists and narcissists.", "Judge Karen", "For every day she made those kids sit in juvi, she should have to spend 10 days in gen pop", "You aren't even annoying anymore. Just sad.\n\nSo... what triggered your tantrum?", "/r/asablackman", "Corrupt is corrupt. Only liberals deflect that democrats are not corrupt. If the 2016 elections didn’t prove how corrupt the DNC is, then there’s no hope for liberals. \n\nPower and money corrupt, and when you have one, you get the other. \n\nI want to say that the GOP base is dumber, but that’s simply not true. Yeah they’ve got a cult and all that, but it’s represents a minor %of their base, they’re just very loud about it. \n\nLiberals defend democrats actions in exactly the same way Republicans defend theirs. If you criticize e a democrat that’s not part of the squad, you get hit with “Russian bot”, “tRUMPer” etc.", "It is hilarious that all these free speech activists rush to downvote a comment they don't agree with.", "These kids would choose kiddy prison over seeing their dad and laid down in the bed. How painful.", "Aren’t most volcanoes dormant though? The only real cause for concern is for active ones that are showing signs of erupting IMO. My parents have lived within 10 miles of a volcano for over 30 years and they’ve never had a single incident that prompted action or any reason to worry whatsoever.", "Downvoted by the brigade of free speech activists.", "The Injustice System on trial!", "Scumbag person\nShe is a worthless human being\nMay she rot eternally in a pile of her own feces next to trump\nAbsolutely no sympathy from me for her callous, unethical, illegal, unjustified, bullying.\nNot worth the effort to spit on if she was ablaze\nBullies and thugs wearing or hiding behind badges/robes of office are still bullies and thugs.\nIf she could she would lock me up for wishing her ill luck\nDishonor to the courts having her there", "I still hold the strong belief that most prosecutors and a lot of judges are terrible, terrible people", "Are the father of four children who is experiencing parental alienation at the moment, I can understand her frustration. She did go about it incorrectly though.\nI would never ask for my children to be taken away from their mother, but somebody does need to intervene.\nThe system here in Australia is so geared towards the mother. \nThe systematic with holding of the children and the “brainwashing“ had me at a point where I ended up depressed to a point that it needed hospital treatment. She is now using this as one of the many tools to prove that I am an unfit father.", "If the issue is body autonomy, then it is body autonomy. And everyone has that. Yes even newborns. The decision goes to the patient themself to make for their own body, later in life.\n\nFor things like circumcisions on newborns, the only time you can intervene on someone else's body (and only when they are incapable of making their own decisions) is when it's medically necessary. It it's not medically necessary, then the decision goes to the patient themself later in life.", "If you want to stop, you're free to do so.\n\nI just want to know what triggered your tantrum. Are you an incel? Did your parents abuse you as a child?", "In America you can go to juvie for not talking to your dad? 🤨\n\nExcuse me? Land of the free? Wtf\n\nI don't know how America keeps finding new ways to surprise me.", "yep", "Unfortunately... It's not just deceit to fulfil their idealogical culture shift for a promised utopia... No... A whole lot of censorship to hide it too..", "Just-Us System working as intended.", "> Just like you have no evidence, I have no evidence of them not fucking things up.\n\nI can't prove a negative. \n\n>But, I'll tell you that I personally know plenty of kids that have been abused by a parent or both and it is INCREDIBLY hard to get it actually actioned on. Hell, there's entire documentary series about kids in these situations, so anyone can see how criminally bad a lot of these situations are that these kinds of kids go through\n\nWell I personally know 500 kids that went through the exact opposite of what you said.... Anecdotes are fun and pointless in topics like these. Which it is find to be ignorant on a subject. Just don't go making such strong positions about it. \n\n>What's more likely is that the violence evidence never made it to the court.\n\nIt's clear you have 0 idea how courts work. This is on the mother and her lawyer if evidence never made it to the court. \n\nNormally I would think you are just a young teenager that is still learning about the world, but after having been in enough rage bait threads, I realize most of the time you guys are just ignorant indignant smug adults. Which again, it is fine to be upset and misinformed. Just don't make such strong positions about the subject you basically know nothing about.", "> Yes even newborns. The decision goes to the patient themself to make for their own body, later in life.\n\nBut that is wrong. The decision goes to the parent and it's not the only time or even the first time the parents makes a decision for their baby. This is not a body autonomy issue, it's a parental rights issue.\n\nIf you are under the age of 18 your parents can have surgery done on you, things like having your wisdom teeth taken out, appendix removed, even cosmetic surgeries like Mandibular Osteotomy it's your parents who consent to it.\n\nIf you want people to stop getting their kids circumcised you go to the parents and explain why it's not necessary, it has nothing to do with \"my body, my choice.\" which is a slogan about body autonomy relating to reproductive rights. Circumcision has nothing to do with a male's capacity to reproduce.", "Not just that, then the loon jumped to saying her downvotes are silencing her as a women..", "Damn, that’s heartbreaking for the kids. Messy divorces are already stressful enough, I can’t imagine the feeling of helplessness of being yelled at because you don’t love your parent that you think is mistreating you. Whether the dad was actually violent or not, the bottom line is you can’t force someone to want to love their parent.", "She sounds like she knows the father personally with all the emphasis of him being a good man so it's likely the judge and father had planned this punishment in advance.", "&#x200B;\n\nLets try this again\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIt's a mans body correct ? So Its his body and it should be his choice if his penis is changed for the rest of his life. \n\nNotice its just one person involved , there isn't a second person in his penis to would also have bodily rights. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nIt doesn't matter what my opinion of you is , just stating the facts as I see them. Since you are of course in favor of mutilating the private parts of young boys.", "Again with the rape shit. You’re a nutcase.", "Actually it’s pretty fucking in point for republicans. Democrats often, sure. Republicans always.", "Either you're baiting, or are an idiot.", "All volcanoes are dormant. Until they’re not.", "The \"equally wrong\" claim is not a matter of opinion, it can be empirically checked.\n\nWhich party attempted to steal the last election? The answer is Republicans. Of course they claim otherwise, but the matter has been examined extensively by courts, media, etc., and the conclusions are clear to any observer making even the slightest attempt to be objective.\n\nThe idea that both sides have an equally wrong opinion of this is the same sort of reality denial that has led to the needless deaths of 800,000 of your fellow citizens - 267 times the death toll of the 9/11 attacks. And who has been pushing back against protecting the country against this pandemic? Republicans.\n\nGaslight, obstruct, project has never been more relevant.", "As a child of two abusive parents, I share your anger.", "> As a woman, I refuse to be silenced anymore. First, they told us they can't get free birth control. Then they told us what we can't do with our body. Now they told us our voice doesn't matter. What's next?\n\nAs a human, I refuse to be silenced anymore. First they told us we can't get free medicine. Then they told told us what we can't do with our body (drugs,vaccinations,etc). Now they told us our voice doesn't matter. What's next?", "She's a Michigan Circuit Court judge so she has to be licensed to practice law and have 5 years of experience working as a lawyer to run for election. None of that experience has to be trial or litigation work. There is no other training for judges in Michigan. Also keep in mind that circuit court is an intermediate level court in Michigan. The Circuit court is the first position to require that candidates be a lawyer. Candidates for District Court, Municipal Court, and Probate Court judge positions have no license or experience requirement at all. They just need to campaign and win an election. Each state has their own rules for selecting judges but this isn't as uncommon as you would think. I wouldn't automatically assume that judges are highly trained.", "That's the neat part, it isn't.", "Incidentally, that's exactly how everyone else feels about you, too!", "+650 votes for heaven's sake", "Has this judge never heard of child abuse by a parent? She cannot fathom why two older children would prefer juvi to spending time with a father, when the children state under oath that he was violent towards.\n\nShe has no business being in family court if she lacks the understanding of children who are afraid of abusive parents.", "No more internet for my today. I'm triggered as hell right now.", "> My assumption is that this judge is basing her statements on the totality of the evidence rather than taking the father at his word. Can’t say for sure, obviously, but that is certainly the standard.\n> \n> Now, all that said, threatening these children with incarceration is disgusting\n\nBased on the second part I don't believe the first", "When did rosa parks sit in the middle of the bus?", "lets try this again.\n\nIt's a person under the age of 18 right? The parents have the legal authority to consent to surgery. The state does not legislate forced circumcisions on newborns, it's a parent's choice.\n\n> It doesn't matter what my opinion of you is , just stating the facts as I see them.\n\nYou're looking for a reason to dismiss my post so you are constructing a narrative to dismiss me based on character rather than merit.\n\n> Since you are of course in favor of mutilating the private parts of young boys.\n\nAm I? Are you sure about that? How embarrassing would it be for you if I were in fact not only against circumcisions, but am myself an uncircumcised American man.\n\nThe difference between you and me isn't that I'm a misandrist and you are the brave MRA poster, it's that I recognize that circumcisions and abortion rights are not the same thing. One is a social norm that people are slow to discard, the other is people attempting to use the state to strip the rights of an adult away from them.", "Ok let's look at the medical ethics:\n\n\nThe standard to intervene on someone else's body is medical necessity. The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:\n\n[“Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary. In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established.”](http://www.cps.ca/documents/position/circumcision)\n\nTo override someone's body autonomy rights the standard is medical necessity. Without necessity the decision goes to the patient themself, later in life. Circumcision is very far from being medically necessary.\n\nWisdom teeth are only taken out when they are medically necessary. Same with the appendix. Mandibular Osteotomy for a jaw or dental anomaly without getting too far in sounds pretty medically necessary to me.\n\nBody autonomy is not exclusive to reproductive rights. I don't know why you think it is, or why you keep trying to limit it to that. It's a very common, broad, and well accepted principle. \n\n\n>Bodily integrity is the inviolability of the physical body and emphasizes the importance of personal [autonomy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomy) and the [self-determination](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination) of human beings over their own bodies. In the field of [human rights](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights), violation of the bodily integrity of another is regarded as an unethical infringement, intrusive, and possibly criminal.[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity#cite_note-1)[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity#cite_note-2)[[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity#cite_note-3)[[4]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity#cite_note-4)[[5]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity#cite_note-5)[[6]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity#cite_note-6)\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity", "What an absolutely vile, psychopathic cunt", "Yes, I agree. Beat the children! Teach them that threat of force alone constitutes authority! The Michigan supreme court is above questioning! /s", "I done wooshed myself and missed your clever previous post, tbh. I have vacation brain.", ">studied US as a morbid hobby\n\nAh, so that's what I've been doing lol", "Can I give you a tip? Always evaluate sources cited by the people you're debating. When Wikipedia [refers to Forbes as a \"potentially unreliable source\"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Potentially_unreliable_sources), they are specifically referencing the /sites path within Forbes, which OP is citing. OP can then counter that the Forbes article is merely summarising a scientific study, but the link doesn't lead to the specific paper under discussion, and there is no way to really know if the summary is sufficient, complete, adequate or journalistically sound. At that is before evaluating the paper itself, and whether it truly does what OP implies. \n\nWorse yet, OP specifically cites a source citing study which allegedly only considers corruption in cities. This act of [statistical selection bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias) obviously automatically excludes Republican strongholds.\n\nDon't accept your opponents' claims and their sources at face value. In fact, do this for people you might be inclined to agree with as well. Run them through an evaluation process as you would if you were a skeptical Wikipedia editor. If you do this consistently, you'll be shocked.\n\nNext, consider your options if you wanted to find objective sources for this information. You'd need to ask questions such as: what is scholarly consensus on the definition of \"corruption\"? What is and is not included? How would one measure corruption in terms of scope, scale, and severity? Which credentialed and trustworth academic sources can be relied upon for answers? Are the authors or the papers I've found controversial? \n\nYou don't have to go that far, of course, but if you do, make sure to store your research for re-use. A big part of the success of conservative brainwashing online lies in (a) the Bullshit Asymmetry Principle, (b) keeping up the appearance of authoritative sourcing (note the process mentioned earlier) and (c) their detractors being unable to concede things their opponents say which are true.\n\nThere's more, much more, but you get the gist. What could be a starting point? E.g.: https://www.unodc.org/e4j/en/anti-corruption/module-1/key-issues/measuring-corruption.html\n\nYou could make it as complex as you like, as you navigate scholarly articles, but an upside is you could learn a wide variety of tools and techniques to engage this debate further in the future.\n\nThe funniest thing is usually when you contact the authors of a study an online demagogue is citing, then ask if OP's interpretation of their study is justified.", "People like her are judges? That’s absolutely terrifying. \n\nI can’t wait till AI gets good enough to replace these vile, angry, emotional, irrational, vindictive, apes", "what a cunt. she should have got fired for that. its not the kids fault. what a stupid bitch", "Its all good bro. I fucked myself on this corny comment section plenty.", "High five! Have a good one, my friend. Good and peaceful new year.", "“Start preparing”… how does one prepare for the end of civilization?", "Republican corruption is orders of magnitude more widespread and severe than Democrat. Just going by the raw statistical probability, any given incident of corruption is more likely to be a Republican.", "What triggered your tantrum?", "Take care strange friend. I love you.", "[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%203%3A16-28&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%203%3A16-28&version=NIV)\n\nUmm... yes, that's the story. 2 women claiming the living child was their son and Solomon was to decide who the true mother was.\n\nNow... as with any allegory, the actual \"hidden meaning\", may itself not be the story at face value. That's what makes it an allegory.\n\nAslan in \"The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe\" is an allegory for christ/god, but he is quite literally a lion in the book. If someone were to say \"Aslan is a lion who is king of Narnia\", it'd be ridiculous to say \"No, Aslan is god.\" Rather \"Aslan is a lion and the king of Narnia, who acts as a literary stand-in (allegory) for christ/god.\"\n\nSo yes... that biblical story is about deciding the parentage of the child.\n\nAs for its allegorical meaning... I wouldn't even consider it an allegory. Rather a parable (a story intended to teach a moral/spiritual lesson). That lesson being a few things (all of which are up for biblical interpretation). But some include:\n\n1) love thigh child\n\n2) Sorrow/grief can drive a person to do irrational things, and only a cold wise tongue can find the truth through the irrational behaviour.\n\n3) Solomon is the coolest dude ain't he right? Cause that's basically all of Kings 1, Solomon is the mack daddy of moral judgement! Cause Solomon, wooo, he so wise! (/s)", "I believe they also want you to make them some pie.", "This is almost gloriously wrong.", "Fucking aye.", "You can't be a nice person and vote Republican.\n\nYou can only think you're a nice person.", "Oh the irony.", "> Ok let's look at the medical ethics:\n\nIt has nothing to do with my post. Also you are preaching to the choir.\n\n> The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:\n\nIs meaningless in this discussion. Do you think I or the person I responded to are Canadian?\n\n> Wisdom teeth are only taken out when they are medically necessary.\n\nMine were taken out when it wasn't medically necessary. The surgeon who made the assessment plainly said that they were coming in with enough room and wouldn't be impacted.\n\n> Mandibular Osteotomy for a jaw or dental anomaly without getting too far in sounds pretty medically necessary to me.\n\nYou are making things up now to justify your stance. You don't know what the surgery is but you are going to assume it's medically necessary because otherwise you would have to discard the notion that parents can't consent to surgery on behalf of their children.\n\n> Body autonomy is not exclusive to reproductive rights. I don't know why you think it is, or why you keep trying to limit it to that. It's a very common, broad, and well accepted principle.\n\nExcept the discussion we're having here about circumcision and the bad faith attempt to use the \"my body my choice\" or more aptly, to weaken the \"my body my choice\" slogan by tying it to a parent's choice to have their children circumcised.", ">After alllllllllllllllll of that, the judge ordered the children to call their father on the phone. They chose jail instead of a phone call. That's insanity.\n\nYes, I'm criticizing them, you dipshit. It was also legal to separate Mexican kids from their mothers, put them in a cage for months, and have zero plan about how to reconcile them. Turns out that just being legal isn't the only metric for being a good idea. I wonder if there's a second example out there of government making poor decisions for kids. Nah probably not. \n\nBut Lol, holy shit, you're outside of your mind. A 4th grader was ordered by a divorce court to talk to his dad, and he didn't, so it's appropriate that he goes to kiddie jail? You're even excitedly defending it. You're a ridiculous person. Stop talking to me.", "People can improve and we don’t cancel their lifetime of work over a single incident.\n\nShe should be reprimanded or censured but continued to practice unless it becomes a pattern.\n\nInternet loves to hand out huge punishments. It’s not realistic", "You truly believe that the billionaires who actually own the vast corporations are left-wing?", "What a nasty woman 😂", "Republicans are delusional. Most of them still believe that the election was stolen.\n\nYou can deny facts all you like. They're still there.", "You are wrongly accusing this corrupt judge of being a Republican and turning it into a soapbox to bitch about something unrelated to the article, that's why you are being downvoted. You are not a woman, you are an absolute child. I am amazed that you had no self reflection after that edit. Grow up.", "He's probably closer to Franco.", "\"The end of civilization\" ... hmmm, can you quote me where I say that?", "nah", "If the children are willingly choosing to go to jail over spending time with their father don’t you think they’re might be an issue?", "I live in the US and your comment could have been written by me from the future. I’ve been down the road you are talking about. I know what you mean and I feel like I’ve seen this future. I am broken hearted at the idea that the forces that seek domination over their fellow man feel so goddamn unbeatable. \nI still have hope as of now though. Hope that I can make a meaningful difference in my children’s lives and the kids I work with at school. If everything goes south in America, these kids need someone with their head on straight to impart whatever bits of wisdom will help plant the seeds of change in them. \nI know it was probably hopeless decades ago. I feel paralyzed living here. I do not have enough money to escape if I even had somewhere to go. I am a domesticated American slave. I keep showing up and hitting the button to get my food pellet. I am so terrified of trying to live outside of this shit show of a country that I will likely embrace the “devil I know” instead of risk what little I have with the one I don’t.", "I mean she didn’t actually do anything wrong at all, if she would have used a different tone of voice and been more matter of fact I wouldn’t have wasted all this time watching this video. Point is no one is used to it being a female judge hard on another female", "Ok boomer", "Again why is there a law protecting women from it.\n\nYour post is blatant misandry. Your okay with laws protecting women from the same thing that men are forced into.\n\nThe only difference between us is you believe its okay for women to have more rights and protections under the law than men. Your a true misandrist. Law shouldn't be gendered and tens of millions of boys are maimed for life while girls are protected from the same thing.", "The fascist billionaires only support the Republicans.", "That fucking cunt should have at the very least lost her job, ideally been put in prison for a while.", "I mean all feminist Canadians are also here to downvote you", "ooh! you really got me there! So worldly and wise!", "How are women on the internet able to both be \"silenced\" yet insert themselves into every single discussion?", "Care to elaborate? Congress won’t investigate republicans insider trading nor do anything about it because they do it too. \n\nWhen the SNC was hacked, it’s not like Russians doctored the info. They simply out the truth out there. If it was faked then why did people resign and get fired over it? Uranium one, which Liberals love to say isn’t a scandal is in fact a huge scandal. \n\nThe Clinton’s were very good friends with Trump, even attending Birthday parties. Bill even encouraged Trump to run. \n\nLiberals love to talk about Trump and how he’s owned by the Russians. Bill Clinton collected $500k from the uranium one scandal that was paid just as they approved the sale. At the same time, Trump was getting money from the Russians and he was a very large Clinton donor. Does not make them the beneficiary of Putin if Putin is financing Trump? Trump was the conduit. \n\nThere’s quite literally thousands of democrat scandals. Let’s not forget about Bill taking advantage of a young aide and using her for sexual favors. Hillary, supposedly a staunch feminist trashed Lewinsky at every opportunity. \n\nPlease stop with the liberal bullshit of “DeMoCrATS arEn’t cOrRuPt”. Shall we talk about Manchin and Sinema who’re taking large sums of republicans money? They’re not corrupt? \n\nThey might not be* as corrupt* as Republicans but they are corrupt just the same.", ">First, they told us they can't get free birth control.\n\nIt's not free, someone else is paying for it. Why should I be forced to pay for your birth control?", "> Your post is blatant misandry. Your okay with laws protecting women from the same thing that men are forced into.\n\nI want you to do me a favor, reach down into your pants and sack the fuck up. Whining to me about how you feel fills me with nothing but contempt.\n\nCircumcisions and abortion rights are not the same thing. Circumcisions are not enforced by the law, it's a choice a parent makes. Abortion rights protect a woman's right as an adult.\n\n> The only difference between us is you believe its okay for women to have more rights and protections under the law than men.\n\nIs this a game to you? Are you keeping a tally on the amount of rights either gender has? Stop being so insecure in your manhood that you need the government to bolster your sense of self worth.", "Don't answer the question \"how do you know he abused her\" just lob ad hominim attacks. And for the record, I've been reading about this case. The husband lodged the first claim of abuse saying the wife slapped him multiple times w no retaliation from him and the two younger kids corroborated this. The eldest boy (14 at the time) claimed he saw his father shove his mother but never strike her. No kids claimed the father abused them but said he and the mother have physically disciplined them (I believe it is abusive to physically discipline children, BTW, as I was severely as a child) \n\nThis case is over a decade old from the start and it seems both parents are toxic af and bad for the children. They felt more comfortable w the mother, which should count for something, but a court appointed shrink (female) felt they had been manipulated into exaggerating their fathers issues and ignoring their mothers. The judge (female) agreed. They both had a wealth of more time w all involved than we did. Add to that the discipline committee exonerated the judge and said that while she was too harsh w regards to sending the kids to juvie, it was in her discretion to do so and she was not acting illegally or immorally and no sanctions were placed on her. It was appealed but the Michigan Supreme Court agreed and federal courts refused to touch it. \n\ntl;dr I believe we are both acting like we know all the facts relevant to this and should step back and stop being so sure. I admit that there are asshole men out there who are abusive and miss use something real (PSA) to further their own abusive, controlling, manipulative ambitions. It happens and it's wrong when it does. I also have seen the other way around in divorces where abuse claims are fabricated to gain an advantage in custody and settlements. Divorce is messy af. Personally I am sorry I've been a bit of a dick through this convo. This issue gets me worked up as I know men who have been screwed over in divorce. There have been women screwed over too, I know, but the females friends I have who have divorced have done so as amicably as a divorce can go.", "The people writing laws have sets of morals, yes, but a person making laws being driven by their ideology doesn’t necessarily mean they’re good; I am assuming here that by moral you mean “morally right” which is how people tend to use that word colloquially. \n\nAre the restrictive laws being passed in the Middle East that ban women from schools and holding public office inherently good because the people writing those laws believe that’s how the world should be with all their heart? It’s their set of morals. \n\nAs US citizens we generally enjoy a society that actually wants to do good for its citizens, despite what it sometimes feels like. Congress isn’t about to legislate a firing squad punishment for stealing bread because that’s not helpful or useful for anyone. \n\nBut we also have people constantly trying to pass laws which are immoral (to me) but moral (to them) such as attempting to control whether or not I have access to abortions. People can have moral (in the colloquial sense of meaning that it’s good) intent and be absolutely fucking wrong. \n\nI guess it feels wrong to say people are writing laws based on morals, because of the implication that morals are automatically good, and instead feels better to say they’re writing laws based on ideology. That’s a more neutral word which feels like the same base idea, I suppose.", "While the Judge's behavior and sentencing of the children to a detention center was uncalled for, I personally think that the children, at ages 9, 10, and 13 (regardless of their parents being married/divorced/separated), should not get to decide that they're not going to speak or interact with either of their parents unless there is verifiable proof that said parent(s) is/are abusing them. If the children were in fact being abused that would be grounds for them being removed from their abuser, but in this case, there was no proof of this—just a 13-year-old saying his dad was violent without an example of what was constituted as 'violent.'\n\nThey're children. They're obviously emotionally distressed. They're clearly being used as tools by both parents. The judge should not punish the kids for their parents broken relationship and behavior, but the kids also need to obey their parents and interact with them. The judge wasn't ordering the children to like their dad, she simply ordered them to talk with him. When you're a child you don't get the luxury of deciding if you're going to talk to or obey your parent(s). Children are minors and in the eyes of the law they have to listen to their legal guardian(s). If a child's disobedience is severe enough that he or she is found to be incorrigible, there may be serious legal consequences for said child. That’s not just my opinion, that’s the law in the United States.\n\nChildren learn whom to trust from the people around them. The 9 and 10-year-old siblings were probably following their older sibling's lead. The 13-year-old was at very least influenced by his mother's projected opinion and reservations about the father, and in a situation where you want harmony when you're inbetween two fighting parents, you'll generally take the side of the parent that you spend more time with to avoid repercussions for not doing so. I know this for a fact because I've lived it.", "First amendment give freedom to remain silent too, aint gotta talk to him just dial it up and put it on mute", "No, but they pretend to be while supporting leftist legislation even tho they live different personal lives. Hypocrites, as you labled the right.\n\nLike when leftist politicians advocated for quarantine then didn't quarantine themselves as we all are familiar with. Or do you need to do some googling with Cuomo?", "There's margin for error there, snarkypants.", "When the kids would rather go to jail then spend time with the dad maybe someone should really look into it", "Democrats really went after him when he caused many old people to die in nursing homes and then when he lied repeatedly about the statistics, right? Those Dems, pure as the driven snow.", "> Can I give you a tip? Always evaluate sources cited by the people you're debating. \n\nOh I totally agree I would do that if I was actually debating something, but I'm mostly just trolling and it's triggering that guy real bad.\n\nPersonally I've found it a waste of time to actually try to debate anyone on the internet, but I appreciate your effort.", "So you’re saying you support labioplasty on infants, right?", "What idiot politician decided it would be a good idea to appoint Karen as a judge???", "Is this comment supposed to be a joke?", "Are you still assuming I support circumcisions?\n\n> Also you are preaching to the choir.\n\nIs this not clear enough for you? Do you need me to draw you a picture?", "Pardon. The collapse of American society. Better? Care to answer the question instead of antagonistically picking a fight?\n\nEdit: Actually. Nvm. I looked through your post history. You’re a bigot and a complete fucking moron masquerading as an intellectual and authority on geopolitics.", "This absolutely happens. My ex did this to my kids.\n\nShe first attempted to brainwash them into seeing me as abusive, going so far as coaching them to tell their therapist that they were afraid of me. When it came out in therapy what was going on, she canceled that therapist and started sending them to a new one. \n\nShe realized that her first tactic had failed, so she shifted tactics and instead started brainwashing them to believe that my new wife was abusive. That was easier than turning them against me personally. \n\nShe directed most of her energy towards my oldest child, expecting the younger to just follow along. When my oldest child decided not to return to my house anymore because of it, my youngest child realized what was going on and spoke up to the court appointed advocate. The advocate found that there was no credibility to the oldest child's accounts. \n\nI was able to get two sessions of court ordered therapy with my oldest child, where they lashed out with all sorts of lies that were obviously implanted by their mother (claiming I'd never worked a job, claiming my wife is abusive, all sorts of stuff that is demonstrably not true). The therapy was completely useless.\n\nMy youngest child started getting treated poorly for not supporting their older sibling's decision and for not making the same decision. Life at their mom's house became so stressful as a result that they began having panic attacks. They decided to stay at my house full time, at which point their mother cut them off from her insurance, stopped buying them gifts for Christmas or their birthday, and stopped contacting them; basically just wrote them off like they don't exist anymore. \n\nBoth kids are adults now. When I reach out to my oldest child they are civil, they say they love me, and they act like nothing ever even happened. They refuse to discuss the situation entirely. It's very weird. They are also deeply riddled with insecurity and trust issues, and no wonder.\n\n I am always encouraging the younger child to reach out to their mom, even though they shouldn't have to be the adult in their relationship, but they're reluctant because every time they talk their mom tries to gaslight and manipulate them further, and it's triggering to them. They are trying to learn to have a relationship with healthy boundaries rather than cutting all ties to their mom, but it's hard work.\n\nParental alienation is so incredibly fucking toxic. It absolutely hurts the kids far more than anybody else. I can't imagine deliberately putting your own kids through that. I don't know what the solution is, but I believe it needs to start with court appointed therapy for the children as well as the adults in any divorce where there is even the slightest sign of contention. It is inexcusable that parents use their kids as weapons to hurt their exes, and there is no real recourse and no real penalty for the parents who willfully engage in this sort of behavior.", "What a smug cunt. Absolutely insane.", "> As the dad (if I'm not abusive) I certainly don't want my kids in juvie.\n\nThe judge was unwittingly like Solomon cutting the baby in half. No real reaction from either of the parents to this threat. Those kids will need therapy until they're 50.", "Fucking lol, international development? Not even a STEM degree? You are so proud of something so meaningless. \n\nMe linking wikipedia doesn't make it wrong, you are 100% one of those people who thinks you're much smarter than you are. The real world will teach you different when you get out of school.", "[my bible](https://youtu.be/Sn7QvnhJgeA)", "The fact that the judge couldn’t understand that them “choosing jail” over having lunch with their dad is a pretty good sign that they really don’t want to be near their dad is disgusting. I don’t understand how such small minded people can become judges… my jaw was on the floor during this whole video… she’s repulsive.", "Wow, do you think menopause had something to do with what happened with your wife? That’s scary. I’m getting to be about that age and am not looking forward to it.", "Ah so were down to the well X side has these people lumped in with them so that side = bad. side. Seriously man until you can separate the good from the bad pointing out specific bad examples and leave out good examples helps zero. IMO both sides are shit, politics are pointless in the age of social media because people dont want to hear what they dont want to hear even if its exactly what they need to know. The public at large react with their feelings and that is also just as bad.", "Didn't see much from either parent. Those kids are pawns in their game.", "My blood is fucking boiling.", "Reeks of the mom manipulated children against dad. But shitty judge.", "The irony of someone falsely accusing someone of violence to legally reprimand them and get your way, and thinking it's the other side that's authoritative and psychopathic is hilarious.\n\nGod forbid a father be entitled to his fair custody share, right? Crazy. Better to accuse that person of felony charges than go to lunch.\n\nYou people are actually insane.", "That is a bummer because she does not seem naturally gifted.", "When I say morals I mean someone’s moralistic principles, what they define as right and wrong, and what one ought or ought not to do.\n\nI don’t mean it in the colloquial “good morals” sense.", "This is how children get beaten and raped. Placing them with violent parents regardless of violent history or the word of the children.", "Let me rephrase: you support labiaplasty being the choice of the parent. You think banning cosmetic surgery on infants would be an infringement of parents’ rights to snip off parts of their children. You wouldn’t do it, but you support people who would. Or do you think it should be banned?", "It’s an easy way to turn a “barely getting by” story into a “making it against all odds” story. It takes the blame of failure and mediocrity away from them and places it on a lifetime of quiet oppression. It’s just easier to say the game was rigged then it is to admit you though you were going to be way better at it then you are. I can see a lot of people falling into that willfully.", "i think it gives base for the violent claim the oldest made, what parent would willingly agree to have their children put in jail for not loving them? i’m sure he’s done much worse if he had no problem with them going to jail", "These kids are in a real bind. The judge is a nut job that can and will make their lives hell. Their mom is a nut job who can and will make their lives hell. Their dad thought it would be a good idea to have three kids with their nutty mom. \n\nThe three kids are the only ones in the room I feel sorry for. The judge has stooped to the moms level and is coercing the kids, and using them against the parents. Three selfish and stupid adults vs three children.", "So, I did not, in fact, say that at all? \n\nOkay, so if I did not say that at all, would you mind asking me what kind of collapse I have in mind first, before constructing your own narrative based on things I never said? Then \"challenging\" me to solve your strawman? You see, that is a bad faith way of engaging in conversation, and so is subsequently playing the victim if your rhetorical approach didn't exactly go as planned.\n\nBut never mind that, I've been down this road before with people, and I've long lost the gusto to flat out hammer those fallacies out of their responses until said responses are actually honest enough to reply to.\n\nTo cut this nonsense short, I implied societal unrest, and such unrest exists, obviously, within an unpredictable dynamic range from \"bad\", to \"worse\", to \"total\". Each of these scenarios demand different levels of preparation, until the cost of such preparation no longer outweighs the benefit. That is an assessment each person in each situation must make on their own, within their means, according to their best estimates of what to expect in their regional environment.\n\nObviously, cues can be taken from preppers, but preppers are themselves an ideologically dubious group, and often have financial means beyond the average citizen. And yet, preparation isn't intrinsically evil or pointless when done sensibly and with care.\n\nNow, since you are in the medical field, I suspect you find my entire recommendation nonsensical, and the mechanics of societal unrest and/or collapse so prohibitively unpredictable and dire that any preperation is fruitless. That is your prerogative.\n\nBut don't lecture me on your lubricated weathervane strawman argument and then play the victim when I don't accept your claims as if they were mine, because this is bad faith discussion which someone with my experience can see coming from miles away. And then I'll act accordingly and \"pick a fight\", as you're doing now, whenever I fucking please. Alright nurse?", "I'm against foreigners trying to influence American laws. That's what I'm against.\n\nLabiaplasty is legal in the US. It's also a cosmetic surgery.\n\nI'm against you trying to strip rights away from people and trying to corrupt a slogan used to push for the rights of my fellow Americans.", "The military budget is large, but in no way “gets more money than anything else”. People often mistake the discretionary spending budget as the federal budget. SS and Medicare represent significantly larger expenditures than defense spending, and the lion’s share or DoD expenditures go towards salaries. \n\nhttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/Rv5UHrNsvcucvflDwwz_pqEjjHnbQeE_HoAgEM44mGOwutlLCyMopUBTlKW_j1krJ775qI5DGZLYlEB8z7I3mD5BllP27Iq4URRWPE-vV3hfqv4wYgLtmDm3D_Z_hAlEMc-s1yA", "Save", "Alright, thanks", "More misandry. Shut up amd sack up . Tell the women in your life to shut up and vag up.\n\nMale genital mutilation straps a man's bodily right away from him just as abortion laws strip men of thier bodily right \n\n\nNah it's no game. To many of my brothers are impressed under the matriachy. Some like you are brain washed into sacking up as you say it.", "True but I know a hell of a lot more corrupt racist republicunts than corrupt racist democrat cunts.", "People don't realise how bad the democrats are, because they're trying to convince themselves that their \"side\" isn't a problem for them to vote for. \n\nSorry everyone, but both of the viable parties are owned by capitalists, and you really can't keep pretending that Biden and the democrats aren't doing exactly what this post is referring to. Cognitive dissonance bad enough that they can justify the continuance of caging children.\n\nDemocrats are just another right wing party, I completely get having to vote for them because it's a two-party system and you really don't want Trump, but don't try to subsequently perform the mental gymnastics to convince yourself somehow Biden and the democrats are some kind of progressive, workers rights party that cares about people over capital.", "Being in a similar situation as a child I appreciate the tenacity of the judge but there are more tactful ways of taking this situation on.", "The don’t ask others to tell you what happened.", "I saw a bit of this first hand with my two cousins. The younger was 12 when they got divorced/separated. My aunt, had rules like you must go to school, bed time, be home by dark, eat dinner. My ex uncle had a stripper girlfriend and no rules. Of course the 12 yr old wants to spend more time with the father who is trying to be their friend more than a parent. It still fucked him up to this day 10+ years later, the only thankful part is that he died due to his own negligence of taking care of himself. The older cousin, who is my age already went through this when he was 6 or 7 the first time he left, before they got back together. So he just wrote his father off again.", "So you do in fact support labiaplasty on infants. It’s legal, and legal it should stay. That’s all you had to say, bro!\n\nNow, as a follow-up, would you say that every decent feminist should support infant labiaplasty? That banning it would strip away the rights of Americans?", "> It has nothing to do with my post\n\nIf we are discussing medicine, then medical ethics apply. \n\n> The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:\n> \n> Is meaningless in this discussion. Do you think I or the person I responded to are Canadian?\n\nMedical ethics are not unique to the Canadian Paediatrics Society. It's not specific to a particular country or medical organization. All of western medicine operates on the same principles of medical ethics. This is just a clear writeup that happens to be written by the Canadian Paediatrics Society. This is entirely contemporary with the field of medical ethics.\n\n>The surgeon who made the assessment plainly said that they were coming in with enough room and wouldn't be impacted.\n\nSounds like you made a decision for your own body, or you assented to the decision. If you said \"no\" the surgeon would have most likely not performed the procedure (I'm only saying most likely because there's a very small outside chance the doctor would do it.)\n\n\n>>Mandibular Osteotomy for a jaw or dental anomaly without getting too far in sounds pretty medically necessary to me.\n> \n> You are making things up now to justify your stance. You don't know what the surgery is \n\nAnd now you come out swinging at the other person. It's easy to see an attack. Two of them too.\n\nI stand by what I said. I'm not going to study it for hours on end but looking into it for a few minutes it sounds very medically necessary. It's that simple.\n\nI also notice you have to come out swinging because if you don't, you have to acknowledge the standard of medical necessity. So you came out swinging hard in hopes of deflecting from that, and hoping to put the other person off position. But the standard of medical necessity remains.\n\nBack to circumcision, foreskin however is normal anatomy. Foreskin is not malformation, misalignment, birth defect, or an injury. It is normal, healthy, and functional body tissue. Any benefit from circumcision has a different and more effective treatment or prevention.\n\n> Except the discussion we're having here about circumcision and the bad faith attempt to use the \"my body my choice\" or more aptly, to weaken the \"my body my choice\" slogan by tying it to a parent's choice to have their children circumcised.\n\nYes this discussion is literally about circumcision and I have literally discussed circumcision, medical ethics, and body autonomy.\n\nI have never said the words that you put into quotes \"my body my choice\", and I have not discussed or hinted at the topic commonly associated with that. So I think this is a strawman fallacy, you are trying to tie my discussion to something that I have not discussed trying to create something else to blow down. The second half of your sentence, sorry to say, doesn't even make sense. No one is trying to weaken body autonomy (notice that I'm discussing body autonomy, not what you are putting into quotes), in fact I want to recognize the concept of body autonomy when it comes to circumcision. Nor is anyone trying to tie them together, so I think that's a second strawman fallacy.\n\nThe concept of body autonomy (it seems I have to italicize that every time to emphasize that I'm discussing body autonomy) applies to many, many, many topics. Hundreds if not thousands of topics. We can discuss body autonomy when it comes to the topic of circumcision without even discussing any other topic. Discussing body autonomy is not automatically tying it to those other topics like you suggest. \n\nI notice that you didn't actually discuss the medical ethics, only tried to shoo them away as Canadian. And you didn't discuss what I linked about body autonomy being part of human rights. I'll bold that part of it:\n\n>In the field of human rights, violation of the bodily integrity of another is regarded as an unethical infringement, intrusive, and possibly criminal.\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_integrity", "> Tell the women in your life to shut up and vag up.\n\nWhy would I need to do that? They aren't the ones running online to whine.\n\n> Male genital mutilation straps a man's bodily right away from him just as abortion laws strip men of thier bodily right\n\nAnd this is exactly what I was expecting to see. You are the type of \"man\" who thinks if he can't force a woman to have his baby he will never have children. You need the government to force it on women which is why you are against women having the right to choose. \n\nIt's not about circumcision or a man's right to choose, it's about taking the right for a woman to choose away from her.\n\nYou're not interested in \"man's rights\" you're a fascist who needs the government to protect their weakness.", "Pretty fcked that kids having their lives already ripped in half had to then go to jail because of their parents actions. \n\nAs a kid of divorce, I feel so sorry for how vulnerable of a position these poor kids were thrown into. IMO she should have to pay repercussions to cover any mental health services these kids will need for the rest of their life because of what she put them through.", "I gotta give you props for the in-depth comment, but I think you’re overthinking reddit. Hell if you really wanted to get in depth you could start citing impact scores and looking how often a paper is cited, but you have to do a cost benefit analysis of wasting an hour plus of your time trying to contact researchers and going in depth on a study or actually being productive and lifting weights or something lol. For me, I’ll take the Forbes article and time.", "This dude gets it. I’m an American and I basically knew what happened on 1/6 as it was unfolding. I called basically everything. And if you were paying attention, it wasn’t hard to do. There were countless others who knew it and have learned it along the way. But the part that will be our downfall are those who either refuse to see it or are supporting and/or complicit. \n\nThey truly believe if they don’t seize power, the democrats will (have). I heard Trump say today on the radio that the election was rigged, and people are saying it’s too late to address the situation (reinsert trump as president), but he doesn’t think so at all. He’s waiting in the wings for his opportunity. If/when he runs in 2024, he’ll already have won (unless the democrats cheat better which I don’t think they can/will).\n\nSo yea, like you said, stock up on shelf-stable goods, water, ammo, and accumulate something that will be considered currency because money will be worthless. \n\nSo crazy we’re actually coming upon the downfall of the U.S. My biggest fears include what China and Russia have planned for what happens next.", "But it's not banned and no one is trying to use it to curtail the rights of adults. So all you're doing is committing to a bad faith argument.", "He’s obviously a piece of shit. Who lets their kids go to kid jail because they don’t want spend time with them. That’s not a father. He’s a nitwit manchild.", "Child marriage is legal in 47 states. The idea that we as a country view kids as people is a ridiculous lie. They are a political football, nothing more.", "No. Assuming republican fuckery just means they are able to read facts. How many Dems drive thru crowds? How many Dems assaulted the capitol? How many Dems appointed SCOTUS members with zero review and diligence? How many Dems think the world's biggest orange idiot is POTUS material?\n\nNo the gqp earned this assumption. They can fucking dig their way back out. \n\nDems aren't perfect but the GQP said fuck the constitution and any semblance of actual sense.", "Oh absolutely. If/when the republicans regain power (I’m also not confident in the Democratic Party, can you tell?!) there’s absolutely no way they’ll acknowledge we no longer live in a democracy. It will be completely the same talking points… freedom! Liberty! All the while they’ll hope it lasts forever but as we’re seeing now… essentially every one of the greatest economies and kingdoms earth has ever seen has fallen. You could consider the British empire still remnants of what it was centuries ago, but not really.", "> you have to do a cost benefit analysis of wasting an hour plus of your time trying to contact researchers and going in depth on a study or actually being productive and lifting weights or something lol. \n\nWhich is why I consider myself \"retired\". \n\n> For me, I’ll take the Forbes article and time.\n\nWell, there is always \"quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur\" as Christopher Hitchens once said. You can debate the scope of \"gratis\", but if Wikipedia would hesitate to include it or even outright reject it, I definitely won't accept it as fact without challenge.\n\nThere are two approaches here: one is where you do the research yourself and source it, which is hard, time-consuming work, and you're right, you have to consider whether it's worth it. \n\nThe other is that of the rational skeptic, where you leave the onus comfortably in OP's hands. This approach doesn't nearly require as much energy as the former. Think Brandolini's Law. There are times and circumstances for both.\n\nAs it is though, I've done my tours in the information war, that war is now lost, and I'm done fighting, the occasional light scrap notwithstanding.\n\nAnd like you, I'd rather lift weights now. Which I do. Cheers.", "> Medical ethics are not unique to the Canadian Paediatrics Society.\n\nCanadian law and policy mean nothing to me and are irrelevant in this discussion.\n\n> Sounds like you made a decision for your own body\n\nExcept I* didn't make the decision. \n\n> I also notice you have to come out swinging because if you don't, you have to acknowledge the standard of medical necessity.\n\nI came out swinging because you were patently wrong, and are attempting intellectual dishonesty to bolster your argument. \n\n Mandibular Osteotomy is often not a medical necessity, just like circumcision. You are more than willing to assume it is to bolster your argument and aren't willing to entertain the notion that no necessary surgeries can be done on children with the consent of the legal guardian.\n\n> Back to circumcision, foreskin however is normal anatomy. Foreskin is not malformation, misalignment, birth defect, or an injury. It is normal, healthy, and functional body tissue. Any benefit from circumcision has a different and more effective treatment or prevention.\n\nSo is an underbite. That's what Mandibular Osteotomy corrects.\n\n> I have never said the words that you put into quotes \"my body my choice\"\n\nBut the person I responded to did, you interjected on their behalf. posts were about that person using the slogan to weaken a woman's rights to abortion. Want to see him literally saying just that a few posts later?\n\n> No one is trying to weaken body autonomy\n\nThe person I responded to literally just did exactly that a few minutes ago by equating a woman's right to choose an abortion with stripping a man's reproductive right. The thing you said no one was doing was exactly what that person did.\n\nAt this point you seem like the person who thinks that a wall of irrelevant text and deliberately disingenuous arguments are equivalent to \"winning.\"\n\nYou've made multiple erroneous assumptions about me, the law, and even the stance of the person I was responding to.\n\nCircumcision has nothing to do with a male's capacity to reproduce. \"my body, my choice.\" is not relevant to that procedure, and the use of the slogan by the person I responded to, by his own admission, was an attempt to weaken the argument for abortion rights.", "Did we just become best friends?\n\nThe blue MAGA are just as bad as red MAGA. But with extra virtue signaling. \n\nThey’ll fight tooth and nail and fall all over themselves to defend Democrats too. Just as quick to call anyone to the left of them a commie as well. Both parties like to use neoliberal fiscal policy, just one is better at wrapping it up in a pretty bow. \n\nBidens given more land for drilling than Trump when he promised to, when back on his student loan promises, hell, Biden helped make sure student loans couldn’t be discharged. \n\nBut criticize a democrat and they’ll ban you from liberal subs, call you a commie or Trumper etc. \n\nI hope you have a great day. Thanks for supporting my viewpoint. We aren’t going to get anywhere with this shitty 2 party system and “vote blue no matter who” which was a joke. The democrats fought harder to keep Bernie away than they fought Trump. That alone should say something.", "Are you saying this as if all billionaires are fascists and they only support Republicans? Or are you only referring to just the billionaires that are fascists support Republicans (because, obviously yeah) \n\nBecause billionaires in general support both Republicans and democrats and aren't just a single party", "As an American I have to say, yeah, that's a pretty accurate assessment.", "You put a lot of effort in your reply so I don’t want to be rude. But of course the story is about deciding parentage. That’s not what I said. \n\nIt’s an allegory. Or a parable if you prefer that word, sure.", ">\t I refuse to be silenced.\n\nLol it’s Reddit. Relax", "That's what I thought as well. When she was saying, \"Your father is a good man!\" How does she know?", "If you want a primer on the farse that is the \"justice\" system.\n\nHave a listen to the 5-4 podcast.\n\nThe \"balls and strikes\" mythology just serves to propagate a false narrative. And, is the furthest thing from the truth\n\nLink for the lazy: https://www.fivefourpod.com/", "Knuckles on chin = oh fuuuuuuuu!", "It's an oxymoron to call her the \"honorary\" Judge. Wish the kids would have said\n\nC U Next Thursday.", "So no suspension and fire the guy who was in charge of the disciplinary board. She was behaving that way because she knows she can.", "Huh? \n\nThere is definitely an interesting debate to have here…\nFemale judge defending the paternal rights of a father who is actively trying to be apart of their lives. But then again claims of violent behavior though unsubstantiated…are these claims from kids who refuse disciplinary tactics from a good father or something worse. \n\n\nMy gut reaction is the father is sincere….", "Just playing the odds fuckface", "I just checked your profile and you do nothing but post about circumcisions. I could not imagine making dick skin the central part of my identity to the point of posting about it for days on end across multiple forums.\n\nWhile at the start of this argument I was against circumcisions I am now in favor of them. Because of you u/intactisnormal I will argue that every male baby should be circumcised.\n\nYou're such a weirdo that you've literally changed my mind about the subject.", "8 years? Fuck those parents..", "Can't wait till judges are replaced with computers...\n\n\nThey are power tripping mother fuckers who play as gods in a courtroom with biases.", ">Compare it to a man getting a vasectomy\n\nYou are totally clueless. A man has to jump through the exact same \"hoops\". Even in the UK it's incredibly difficult for a man to get a vasectomy. There are risks with any surgical procedure, including the risk of regret if the procedure is irreversible, and it's the doctor's responsibility to consider whether the benefits outweigh the risks.\n\nThis doesn't even just apply to hysterectomy and vasectomy, it applies to literally every fucking medical procedure. You don't get permanent life-changing surgery just because you demand it.", "what kind of response???", "Quite awful on all counts especially when the Supreme Court takes her side. In a way, they are protecting their own.", "We saw him once or twice a year until I was 13. My mom told my siblings and I that she couldn't handle us any more, we had \"driven her insane\", showed us some pills (Aspirin) and a steak knife, and locked us all in our room (The five of us shared a room) a few hours later my stepfather got home from work and talked to her, called our dad and let us out when he got there to pick us up. \n\nI want to say though, my dad wasn't really a good father. He was just a better person than my mother.\n\nMy wife jokes that my childhood is like an onion of abuse, anxiety and disappointment. Every so often she pulls a layer back revealing new reasons to keep our kids away from my mother.", "surprised how many people are assuming that the judge acted inappropriately, as opposed to trusting her judgement that the mother was manipulating and grooming the child to hate her father.\n\nthis is very easy to do in the current custody structure, because the mother starts with the upper hand by default.", "Just wanna add my two cents this is my first time learning that a men's right group is specifically anti-feminist, and I've never heard that either in my circles. I don't really know what I thought \"men's right\" activists were, I just assumed they were people who tried create dialogue about gender specific issues men face today in the same way feminists create dialogue about issues women face.\n\nBasically I wonder how common knowledge this actually is- I'm not on twitter or many other social media spaces so maybe it's more discussed there.", "Why are judges above the law? This isn’t the way you treat people or children! Why isn’t she in Children’s Village, spending her birthday there? It’s disgusting that she can say these horrific threats and treat these children like that without consequence. Where is the justice in this land?", "> threaten children on her little power trip.\n\nShe didn't just threaten them, she jailed them.\n\nFuck the USA. Did you guys run out of adults for your slave labour camps and need to start locking up children too?", "“As a woman…” means nothing. You’re not every women. Not all women agree with you or think or want the same things as you. Fuck off you Karen. \n\nYou being a woman has nothing to do with you being an annoying fucking blowhard. Get over yourself you haven’t done shit and you’re acting like you speak for women. Dumb asshole.", "I think this is an important distinction. Their mother, undeniably, told them how to behave with their father and what to say if they were asked about it. The 13 year olds statement was too rehearsed and clear cut. The kids don't know the ramifications of what telling a judge 'he's violent' are, let alone the judgement of if they should speak out of turn. \n\nIt might not be brainwashing but it's manipulation at least. \n\nI've been in those kids position, they're being pressured on all 3 sides and only know as much as they've been told.", "I'm pro abortion but this narrative is so fucking weird. Women are almost as likely to be anti-abortion as men. The whole idea that the \"pro-life\" movement is made up of men wanting to control women is just objectively not true, but you're wallowing in this fantasy that you're fighting some evil men who just want to oppress you purely because they're evil men.", "riiight, just assume the mother is acting in good faith.", "You must have stopped listening as soon as the narrator said, \"those claims were unsubstantiated.\"", "She was forced to retire. No longer on the bench at any rate.", "Yeah cause downvoting is akin to silencing someone lmfaoo, the victimhood continues.", "I think a lot of people don't believe it can happen here. Or that it will be little events that will blow over. We've already been so desensitized. When the militias start taking over police stations, or worse, when the police start joining the militias, I wonder how many of us will be ready at the time? I'm not ready. Not fucking close.", "> You get them help, not punishment.\n\nThis was in the USA, they don't do that there. Jail just seems to be the default option whenever things get a bit too difficult, they've got millions of people locked up in that country.", "Just because you can doesn't mean you should.", "I’m speechless… threatening children to spend time with an abuser or go to jail?? Insane\nAbsolutely disgraceful horrific", "Not sure what's worse, the grammar Nazis or the actual Nazis who don't know how to use grammar.", "You seem overly focused on the use of 'one off' rather than the contextual meaning of, 'this isn't that rare'.", "holy shit man. like EVEN IF the mother was a psycho and brainwashed the kids and all that, if they arent in any physical danger or being abused or something then she has no right to send them to foster care or whatever. and she has no business telling a kid what they need to be doing in their personal lives. there should 100% be something to help fathers in court but this aint it", "How is this not state compelled speech? Forcing someone to have a conversation with someone they don't want to?", "What the fuck is wrong with your country", "The narrator specifically said 'those claims were unsubstantiated' after the kid had claimed he was violent. You think they pulled the kids from the homes (beyond the judge's initial tantrum) without doing any investigation into claims of abuse?", "Both of the parents, really. Mom couldn't plead with the judge to give her a little time or something? Or tell the kids she'd be in the restaurant and would protect them at lunch? They both suck.", "you're \n\nFfs.", "Maybe I'm missing something. From the two articles linked, it sounds like the extent of him \"acting at the behest of foreign agents\" was passing along a business card. Admittedly I know nothing about how a disciplinary board works, but in a criminal case it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the prosecutor to work with the victim and give them information about potentially helpful organizations.\n\nIs there more to this story that's not included in those links?", "That's what stood out to me. What an absolutely shit group to force kids to have a relationship with the father they say is abusive", "What a scumbag that judge is, and how horrible it is that she is allowed to continue abusing her power.", "Where she says \"I could never have expected that they would choose door number 2\"\n\nThe sheer weight of the fact that they did, rather than spend that time with their father, speaks absolute volumes about the situation. That's something that she should have recognised.\n\nWhether the claims were unsubstantiated or not, those kids clearly had a big problem being around him, and forcing that on them is nothing short of child abuse by the judge.", "Opens with a pay wall. So how did it end?", "My dad tried to do the exact same thing. Claimed the court forcing me to see him would be a good thing because then I could see that he wasn’t a bad person by spending time with him. Some people are genuinely that delusional.", "If only RustyShacklefjordMD was in that Court, you'd have set them all straight on the matter, I'm sure.", "Sure, there ARE corrupt Dems, but if you had to bet your next paycheck on it, here in America you'd bet (R) every single time. Don't fall off that very high horse there when you reply ...", "Lol!", "No way to know for real but see my casetext or whatever it was link in another comment for the judges reasoning as to why he wouldn't dismiss it pretrial (pretty much \"this looks like it may be racial discrimination\"). The defendants didn't want to deal with a trial so they settled.", "I always downvote the Reddit martyrs. Even if I agree with them.", "I'm Democrat but downvoting you for stereotyping.", "Almost like they only got voting rights 100 years ago in the us while men had them since well the beginning of time.", "you dont matter, personally, nothing to do with your gender lmaoo.", "I'm sure there is, but that's all I could find. The best source is that casetext one with the judge's summary of the case. The review board was calling him a foreign agent for passing on the business card and so is much of Reddit. I think it was improper but I don't have as strong as opinion on the subject. I can honestly see where the allegations of racism come from.\nEdit: To clarify, there is some unspoken context here RE the Israeli government's interest in an international case that's been in the news media and his pursuit of that case with the appearance of possible impropriety", "Judges have way too much power in the United States. This is a prime example of that.", "Uh, what happened to the constitutional right of freedom of assosciation?\n\nIf you argue children have no constitutional rights, then they also shouldn't be bound by our laws.", "I will thanks", "Regardless of who currently has or deserves custody, I think we can all agree that the people suffering most in this scenario are the kids. Gotta be pretty fucked up for them.", "13 year Olds are not stupid, and if they really do love someone U can't brainwash that out, no matter what trash talk they hear on the other side of the fence, if the love is there it's there. That's just my experience being the dad in that situation. As the eldest he may have been to only one to witness what dad did.\nI don't claim to know the back story of this situation but if my 13 year old daughter decided she no longer wanted to speak to her mother or I for that matter, I would have to take that VERY seriously because she is at maturity level to make informed and wise decisions.", "lol", "Power-tripping cunt actually thinks she can tell* children to spend time with their father.\n\nThat isn't your job, lady. Your job is to ensure the parent has every opportunity to spend time with their kids to try and connect with them if deserving of that right. You should have absolutely no power beyond that. Hell, I'd argue the kids shouldn't even be forced to be in the same house as the man if they don't want to be.\n\nAnd when the kid says he's violent, she just cries \"brainwashed\".\n\nShe's a different brand of the same problem most people deal with in custody courts. Usually they blindly protect the woman, but she thinks of herself as some sort of champion of virtue because she blindly supports the father.\n\nLet me tell you that at 13 years old I was fully aware of what my father was like and if I told you he was violent, he was violent.\n\nFuck these people. This whole system is broken and needs to be dismantled.", "Wtf does free birth control have anything to do with local-level corruption surrounding a juvenile court judge in the state of Michigan?", ">You haven’t been in the same shoes as those kids. I have. \n\nYou have no evidence that those children are even wearing those shoes.\n\nThis was an 8 year, ongoing family court matter. The judge knows a bit more about the family than your 30 seconds of reddit time.\n\nNinja Edit: Also remember... This court case and the phrases shown were particularly picked out for TV. What sells on TV? Not the civil discourse... not the 8 years of lead-up to an event. But the one or two statements that gets views. Your outrage is exactly what they're looking for, and I bet you that they've picked exactly these few seconds to stir that outrage. Because if there was evidence of hostility or violence, they would have lead with that as it would generate more views.\n\nEdit: Before someone tells me nonsense about the judges actions... I never said anything about the judges actions being correct. Just that there's no evidence of violence, and to claim that there is... makes you the exact target audience from the media. Keep \"raging\" over what they choose to show you without context.", "Doesn't excuse her attempts to force the children into a relationship with their father.\n\nI don't care how fucked up their mother is, they wanted nothing to do with the man. If she really had the word of psychological professionals to remove the children from their mother, she wouldn't even need to make threats towards the children. Absolute nonsense.", "Democrats are neoliberals", "(My unpopular truth) my parents divorced when I was 13, my mother begin to tell me the atrocities that my father had committed, she brain washed me for years with lies, it was all lies, I believed he was a drug induced monster that beat her, I finally had a one year relationship with my father before he died, it turns out he was a saint compared to her. I don’t agree with what this judge did, but she is correct that some mothers can and do poison their children’s mind against the father after a divorce. Mine finally admitted it was all lies just recently, she believes if she doesn’t tell the truth now, she won’t get into heaven. I had found out it was lies years before, from 100% of everyone else that knew my father. I’m still angry to this day, he died in 2015.", "What the fuck are you even talking about?", "No body ever advocates for fathers trying to be present in their childrens lives. Society needs to do more for fathers fighting to be a parent….", "Lawyer here, I'd like to chime in and say that the basic idea of qualified immunity is okay. You don't want every police officer and government official easily sued for small mistakes. \n\nThe problem lies in that the current precedent requires that an officer violated \"clearly established law\". Which doesn't sound unreasonable on it's face until you realize that it gets taken to an absurd level. For example police will argue \"oh sure, we can't tazer someone jaywalking with the model Z200 but I thought we could tazer someone for jaywalking with the Model Z300 because it's supposed to be safer\"\n\nSo in almost every instance, the police or government officials can avoid repercussions by finding some differentiating fact so that it's no longer \"clearly established\"", "Too much and never enough. This place isn’t the spot to discuss it and neither am I. Too many red hats with “strong opinions.”", "As soon as those kids turn 18, they'll be erasing him from their lives, guaranteed.", "The fuck are you on a woman's power crusade for when the judge was a piece of shit woman? Seems like you're on the wrong side of morality here.", "If I was the Dad I would've defended those children, even if the judge was trying to help my case. \nI would have told that judge to stand down and leave them alone, even if she put me in contempt.", "How fucked do you have to be as a parent to let your kids be placed in juvenile detention because they don’t want to talk to you? Even if the kids were “brainwashed” by the mom, the dad showed his true colors in letting them be locked away. Seems like it was more important that he be vindicated than that his kids were taken care of. Hope he’s proud of himself.", "if you are a child and a court feels you have been the victim of a successful brainwashing by a parent what should a court do?\n\n+ nothing and leave the child in the custody of that parent, the parent responsible for harming the child through brainwashing?", "> Yes, I (a man) am being sexist about men.\n\nFYI being a man doesn't exempt you from being a misandrist.\n\nEveryone can be sexist, everyone can be racist.", "My god, you don’t like trump??? Holy shit, that’s the bravest thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Literally no one on this website has ever been brave enough to make a stand like that. I commend you", "Can't believe the children's father didn't step in to stop the judge from sending the kids to jail", "Yeah that edit is cringy AF.", "About fucking time.", "Judges have way too much power and not enough seems to be done to limit them. These people are governing their own power, not a good setup.", "The 13 year old was literally just sentenced to 5 years in prison for refusing lunch with his dad. She says \"you will stay there until you finish high school\". And if it hadn't caused a media shitstorm, there's a very good chance he would have. \n\nFucking hell.", "I'm glad your comment pissed off all these men, it's hilarious watching cockroaches band together when they're upset. This sub is a consummate cesspool of bad takes.", "So kids get to defy judges? Reddit is so pedantic sometimes and yet so lacking once their emotions rise.", "So in other words.......nothing happened and she was reinstated to threaten more kids with jail for not loving a violent man... #iamatotalpieceofshit", "That doesn't mean these people have political leanings that magically disappear. The only reason the supreme court is supposedly nonpartisan is because once appointed the justices are no longer beholden to a political party.", "Do you know if that has anything to do with a lot of imgur links crashing for me?", "Lol, wtf is this?", "Saw this video. What a total psycho. Poor kids deserved sympathy and kindness. Not further aggression and abuse.", "Do you think the Supreme Court would be better if Justices were picked by other federal courts instead of politicians?", "Yes so throw kids in juvie problems solved.", "Lmao stop being reactive and consider all parties.\n\nHave foresight", "Is this a copypasta or something? You can't be a real person. You're \"extraordinarily well trained\" to debunk garbage bar talk? You study the united states? And your whole analysis breaks down to \"its chaos, idk\" the same conclusion as anyone else with two brain cells to rub together will come to. Not to mention what is this fucking thriller novel nonsense about your friends being firebombed? Who the fuck are you cosplaying?", "Children don't have very many rights especially if they're at odds with those whom they are dependant on", "Is this fucking bitch crazy?", "Okay but I can clearly say I am not any of those -ists and still point out that it’s weird this dude keeps bringing up rape and is acting like he personally is a victim here.", "Definitely but I also can't fault him for not thinking of that on his feet. His objective walking in was likely focused on getting to see his kids, I would hope he didn't expect the judge to threaten to lock up his children.", "Controversial posts end up at the back of the thread.", "\"As a black man...\"", "The court could hold the mother in contempt, for coaching the children to lie to a judge.", "> Not to mention what is this fucking thriller novel nonsense about your friends being firebombed?\n\nhttps://netherlandsnewslive.com/suspects-of-attack-from-groningen-journalist-inspired-by-conspiracy-theorists/299330/", "I appreciate your educated opinion here as a lawyer. However, I'm not sure I understand why you don't want police and government officials to be able to be sued for mistakes. I get that the legal system isn't really intended to be a mechanism for members of the public policing public officials in their jobs - but right now there's no other mechanism to hold them accountable for misconduct. Instead, qualified immunity (to me as a layman) seems to set the precedent that government officials are above the law and cannot be held accountable for misconduct, except in extreme circumstances.\n\nI feel like there needs to be a better mechanism for holding bad police/judges/other officials accountable but until there is, qualified immunity essentially makes it impossible to hold officials accountable for misconduct when they would certainly face consequences at any private sector job. I think I do want police and government officials to be able to be sued for misconduct.", "WTF?! The whole time watching the video I assumed she was going to end up disbarred in a pretty much open and shut case. And instead she somehow winds up with just a suspension that's ultimately cut short by another court? That's ridiculous. \n\nGood on those kids for standing their ground. Things with their dad must have been pretty bad to endure all that crap.", "This judges disdain and disrespect for young victims of domestic violence just sucks! But is very typical of family court judges. Kids and their moms are getting hung out to dry in family courts around the world because of a huge trend to disbelieve women and children who report abuse and instead hand full custody over to abusive fathers. It’s real and it’s horrifying.", "This is Kangaroo court!", "Stunning and brave…", "The judge threw the kids in Juvie not me. I'm considering all parties especially the children. Did you consider that or just latching on to one concept here?", "Do we know the court did not hold the mother in contempt? \n\nRegardless, that doesn't answer the question:\n\n+ the judge feels the children have been harmed\n+ the judge places that harm on the mother\n\nDo you return the children to the mother who has harmed them?\n\nAre you at all worried that a parent who has harmed their children\n\n+ will not stop even after a contempt order\n+ will not work to repair the relationship between the kids and their parent\n+ will not harm their children further, possibly using physical violence?", "Like, I have a reasonable relationship with my mom, I love her, I think she tried her best as a parent, but it doesn't change the fact that she never had to hit me. The scant few times she threatened me, once I was old enough to understand and form a memory of it, felt credible enough that I simply believed she would when she said she would. So, I complied, because I understand I don't want to get hit.", "She sent children to prison - to be handled (and handcuffed?) by heavily armed brutes who will probably 'search' (ie. sexually abuse) them. \nDisgusting... she could give them a stern lecture, but that's as far as a responsible adult would go.", ">the way they keep it nonpartisan is by having almost all of the members selected by the various judicial bodies of the state.\n\nconsidering that the GOP has gained partisan control of the judicial system this isnt really all that assuring.", "Sure but the odds are pretty stacked for a republican being the shithead in the situation. 90/10.", "Can you maybe edit in some more video game noises, huh, you fuckin' after-school discovery channel jackasses? I don't think there's enough.", "Yeah sure, go back to your safe space", "What a cunt.", "someone disbar this fraud", "Just watched it and immediately forgot everything I had seen when I heard she was suing for child support because she was living on ONLY 9k a month from her allowance from her parents...", "People need to see this, whatever your opinion. I take no side, but I ask that everyone who sees this post upvote it, the comments within it, and do what is in their power to get this story to an audience.", "Okay, but which party is actively harming the planets and its people chance of survival?", "Please don't put backslashes before underscores.\n\nFixed link: Settled https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/20607966/Fischer_v_State_of_Michigan_et_al", "And how would you say they've done that, by having politicians appoint and confirm judges?", "100% agreed. Your comment was -1 when I bumped it up to Zero, so at least 2 people were triggered by it and I imagine they are the kind of assholes that would let their kids go to kid jail over that.", "Better just throw them in juvie then.", "This is going to confuse mens rights: a woman judge siding with the father in a parental dispute", "Going to court with a rehearsed statement? Who would ever do that?", "The child literally said the father was violent and the judge completely ignored it.\nNo wonder kids think adults won't believe them.", "Birds of a feather. I assume it was the dad from this story. And his mom.", "No, because the mother was given primary custody. And how the fuck do you get from there to juvie?", "I mean you can easily find a history of corruption since Nixon where every single Republican President has had a litany of corruption accusations and convictions. Where that hasn’t been the case on the other side. Even if we are just talking about basic criminal charges Republican politicians have something like a 86% higher rate that Democrats do. We should also talk about sexual assault and pedophilia, want to take a guess which side had had over 150 charges over the past 30 years next to the less than 20 on the other side? When is this mythical time you speak of where Democrats were more corrupt? Or less ethical even?", "What a stupid bitch. \"I ordered you!\" You aren't God. You are a person with a high amount of power and personal responsibility flexing your ego on children. To even pretend she has an ounce of understanding of what they're home life is like or what they have been through to proclaim the father a \"good man\" is a fucking joke of its own. Also if you are a judge and you want some to murder you in like 20 years this is how you create serial killers from a young age. Just show them that the world and legal system won't listen and doesn't care and they will dwelve into hatred for every construct you stand behind.", "\"I gave them two terrible options and they forced me to choose the worse one! How dare those little shits!\"\n\n~Judge Asshole", "Who wants to live in America when shit like this happens on the daily?", "Wouldn't that go both ways?", "Wouldn't that go both ways?", "Both sides hurrr has never once been used to defend or excuse the Dems. Hmm, wonder why that is.", "Bitch ass powertriped judge. Ew", "You're doing the same thing lmao. You have no idea what the court found, you have no grasp of the facts, yet assert them much more blindly. Come on.", "I do not understand how that horrible woman still has a job.", "So you are saying these people are not republicans?", "Don’t you have a school to bomb or shoot up somewhere?", "\"Corporations are people, my Friend\"\n\n&#x200B;\n\nNever forget which \"side\" said that.", ">If you believe otherwise, instead of speaking vaguely like you don't actually have any familiarity with this body and Michigan in general, show specifically how the nonpartisan process that selects 7 of the 9 members is an illusion of nonpartisanship.", "> And how the duck do you get from there to juvie?\n\nIt's a very good question and I don't know the best way to answer that, but I ask you to answer my questions:\n\nWhat can the judge do when the kids have been brainwashed and refuse to leave the custody of their mother?\n\n+ return them to the parent harming them?\n+ give custody to the parent they refuse to see due to their brainwashing?\n+ give custody of the kids to foster parents?\n+ I have no idea\n\n~~(and as I suspect you've read by now, eventually the father was given primary custody because the courts did see the mother as harming the children)~~ It seems after sometime that was overturned and the mother has the kids 68% of the time.\n\nThis is actually a very good overview of the start and up to 2019 view of the case, it's 20 minutes long, you can watch it 2x speed especially if you open the transcript: https://youtu.be/w5_M47H6GYA\n\nWhat would you do as judge if you find the mother has been harming the children and brainwashing them?", "That's not really uncommon for people who are being abused by a foreign country.", "If the court has knowledge that the mother is brainwashing the children, then the children should not be returned to the mother. I'm not sure in what reality the children who are the victims of brainwashing should be held in contempt of court.", "Not only is the judge a pos but the dad is as well.", "judges should be elected by people, but everything with these people needs to be an open book if you choose to be a judge as a career. Way, way, way too many of these people now are potentially compromised, religiously indoctrinated people. We need a national referendum on letting people grasp this is a nation bound by no religion or gods. They've gone too far, and use their religion as an excuse to attack secular society.", "Doesn't surprise me. My family went through almost the same thing. The judge ruled that it was perfectly formal for abused kids to see their father against their will even after threatening to leave with them after given his god given right. I was one of those kids. And let me tell you that was the day I stopped believing in the law. When the abused children were the ones that were the criminals not the victims for turning their father in.", "They're saying this must be a Republican board full of corrupt Republicans doing Republican things when, in reality, it's a nonpartisan board with most members we don't know the political affiliation of, and members mostly appointed by nonpartisan officials, and we don't know which members made the decision.", "> judges should be elected by people\n\nAnd that's how it's done in Michigan, so you should be heartened. And those judges pick 4 of the 9 members of this commission. 3 more members are picked by the state bar.", "Reminds me of the judge that ruled in favor of my mother keeping custody of me even though she wasn’t in the same state that the divorce proceedings were being held because she took off with me and my sister once she found out my father filed with intent to have full custody. \n\nTurns out the judge had lost her custody battle in her divorce, and was disbarred (is that the correct term for a judge?) a few years later due to a track record of siding with mothers regardless of case facts. \n\nAlso turns out that my mother was emotionally manipulative and mentally abusive.", "She did the equivalent of \"I hit you cause I love you\" and \"why do you make me do this?\" If the mother is a piece of shit, take it out on her, not the kids. How do you get mad at KIDS that she herself said were brainwashed. How much is a 9 and 10 year old really going to understand, let alone if she was abusive, they may be speaking under duress, which way to ease that by threatening them even more, really teaches them the right lessons in life.", "power hungry cunt. doesnt give a fuck about those kid's future. only cares about her way or the highway. she shouldnt be allowed to judge anything.", "“I told them to either eat their green beans, or I will run them over with my car. Who would’ve thought that when faced with door #1, eating green beans, and door #2, me running them over with my car, which was explained repeatedly to them, would they choose door #2”\n\n-the judge probably", "So brave", "Nah. I didn't lose anything. The only people losing anything are those kids and respect for our justice system.\n\nI can't believe people can be proud to think that kids that are afraid to be with their father due to violence are lying. Lmao.", "So punish the kids?", "Did I hit a nerve or something?", "I’m Bisexual so I might fuck your sister", "What a cunt.", "Well good for you for believing women. Did you speak out against Biden then? Because a rapist should not be President.", "You tried to claim that he faced no consequences and tried to pretend that he quit on his own rather than being forced to quit to avoid being removed by a Democratic impeachment. \n\nI repeat if you have a accurate point why do you need to lie?", "It’s not a lie. I can show you a picture of my diplomas", "Lock her up", "I’m a woman. I can’t exactly hate myself lol", ">More than 130 family law attorneys packed an Oakland County courtroom to capacity Wednesday morning in a defiant show of support for [Judge Gorcyca]....\n\n>The judges and lawyers I've spoken to about Gorcyca's conduct in the Tsimhoni case invariably note that she lashed out against the Tsimhoni children only after dozens of hearings in which the children and their mother were repeatedly called to account for violating the court's orders mandating parenting time with their father.\n\n>\"What I hate is the lack of context,\" said Daniel Bates, a seasoned divorce mediator who was among the lawyers waiting to show their support for Gorcyca when a bailiff unlocked the doors to her courtroom at 8:30 Wednesday morning. \"It's like taking one photo out of a five-and-a-half year movie.\"\n\n[source](https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/brian-dickerson/2016/07/07/lisa-gorcyca-jtc/86748326/)\n\n>Ferrick organized a letter of support that has been signed “by more than 175 lawyers and counting” who work in family court matters, she said.\n\n>“The related media coverage has been a growing frustration among Oakland County family law practitioners,” Ferrick said. “The facts of the Tsimhoni case itself have been skewed, and the judge’s record of protecting children, courtroom patience, thoughtful deliberation, and community service have been completely overshadowed by this now suspect prosecution by Mr. Fischer in behalf of the Judicial Tenure Commission.”\n\n[source](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/05/30/lawyers-back-oakland-judge-herings/85159886/)", "Lying in court? Who would do that?", "> I'm not sure in what reality the children who are the victims of brainwashing should be held in contempt of court.\n\nwell I'm not a lawyer... this guy is and in this 20' video which can be viewed at 2x speed he goes over the details of the case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5_M47H6GYA\n\nhe doesn't touch directly on whether the court can charge the kids with contempt, but he does seem to mock that notion in one section...\n\n+ Can a court write out an order for some third party not involved in a case? -- I don't think so?\n+ Can a court directly order the kids in a custody case to do a, b, or c? -- I think maybe? The court can certainly order the kids into various forms of medical treatment (see a doctor, see a dentist, see a psychologist) what are the limits to that?\n\nIt's clear the court can order a change in custody of the kids, but that does seem to demand an answer to the question of how does she do that when the kids refuse to comply?\n\nDoes she give them to the mother? You seem to agree that would not be right.\n\nDoes she give them to the father who the kids are brainwashed against? That seems to be wrong.\n\nSo what can she practically do with the kids? \n\nI'm not a lawyer and ignorant, I could see her giving them to a foster home for a time, but what can a judge actually do?", "None of this surprises me. Judges are just people. People are power hungry. People are corrupt. Ughh people suck", "He ended up with custody of them fyi. Might tell you something about mom.", "I actually agree with you but christ could you be any more condescending?", "How are you failing to comprehend that children can be subject to coercion by parents in custody cases? Why do you think you have a better handle on this situation than the court that has adjudicated this process for almost a decade, or the [nearly 200 family law attorneys](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/05/30/lawyers-back-oakland-judge-herings/85159886/) who signed onto a letter of support for the judge?\n\n>“The related media coverage has been a growing frustration among Oakland County family law practitioners,” Ferrick said. “The facts of the Tsimhoni case itself have been skewed, and the judge’s record of protecting children, courtroom patience, thoughtful deliberation, and community service have been completely overshadowed by this now suspect prosecution by Mr. Fischer in behalf of the Judicial Tenure Commission.”", "Yes. That's the entire point lol.", "https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqcs7qo", "Dad got custody fyi. \n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqcs7qo", "I literally said the fascist billionaires support the Republican Party.", "Awww look at you, so cute, trying to troll. I just feel sorry for you, it's sad that people like you exist. Another child left behind.", "Dad got custody fyi.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqcs7qo", "https://imgur.com/a/jr0rLab", "Dad got custody. Children were coached and abuse was unsubstantiated.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqcs7qo", "If you give those two choices and the kids pick Children’s Village, there’s clue number one that being with dad is not a good situation", "Isn’t this that corrupt bitch that husband or she owns the facility that does probation drug testing? She’s known to send people to it no matter the change on many occasions to get that foot traffic, fucking gross ass person.", "We saw how she acted in the video.\nI know how to believe my own eyes, dude.", "Nah, those supporting mum and kids can get fucked. If dad is violent you deal with it properly through the process. \n\nNotice how there was no accusation of violence from the mother or her lawyer? She left it to the kids to say something. Highly likely it’s not true at all and they schemed to get the kids to do the dirty work. Do you really think dad is such a deadbeat that he would put up a fight back in court if he was actually violent? I smell bullshit. \n\nJudge didn’t handle it properly and needs an EQ check, but her ruling is fair based on the facts brought forward in the session.\n\n\nEdit: just saw this comment with sources stating that after multiple child psychologists and therapists spoke with the children they were ordered to be separated from the mother. I love being right.\n\nhttps://reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/_/hqb7yns/?context=1", "I’m from Chicago, you nailed it.", "Blah blah blah.", "... the whole point of judges are that their orders have force lol.\n\nIt's literally the entire point of the judicial system. It's the power we as a society bestowed upon those judges by electing them or the people who choose them.\n\nReminds me of when doctors refused to follow a simple flow chart with better patient outcomes for heart failure or some shit. Doctors were wrong 4/5 times, the chart only 2/5. They staunchly refused.", "She never stopped to consider anything other than, \"they're disobeying my orders!\" \n\nFuck this judge.", "Ummm yes. She’s the family court judge. It’s absolutely up to her.", "Yea what kind of stupid person would ask that? She’s the judge.. that’s the point. Fucking Reddit going full Reddit in this thread.", "The kind who think that's better than having them with mom, I'm guessing.", "All rise judge Karen is in session", "Yeah bro, I did. But when I can only choose between two rapists, I choose the one who has some idea of how to run a country.\n\nSome. Not much. But some. And infinitely more than the previous, hilariously incompetent regime.", "For sure. Hell, it's hard for other members of the family to know what's really going on behind closed doors. To say nothing of a judge or people reading an article online or seeing a video.\n\nMom could brainwash the kids. Dad could brainwash the kids. One or the other or neither or both could be trash people.", "Someone’s gotta cover those web server overage fees.", "We have a fucked up legal system when it becomes to parents and their children. Legally, kids are treated as property of the parents with zero recourse except instances of severe neglect or abuse. Kids get born into shitty parents that destroy their lives and they're left with no recourse.", "Arguably he did a hell of a lot more harm than any individual at the Jan. 6 riot.", "Nowhere have I said that what she did was appropriate. The point is that a bunch of fucking galaxy-brained redditors who watched a five minute video aren't in a position to determine what was truly in the best interests of the children viz-a-viz the custody issue and the two parents. \n\nIt is objectively, indefensibly fucking absurd to look at a child custody case that has been going on for nearly a decade, a case in which the judge has received an outpouring of support from local attorneys in that field, all claiming that she has an exemplary record in terms of doing what's best for the children that come through her court and that the facts of this case are more complicated than the events of one single hearing...\n\n...to look at all of that and decide in your self-righteous arrogance that \"No, I can tell exactly what's going on here. I know better than all of these professionals. I don't need 8 years to gather the facts. A five-minute youtube video will do. I am, after all, a person on the internet who watched a video.\"", ">Oh well, go enjoy your video games bud, PoE awaits\n\nLmao, what?", "This is why all court hearing should be recorded and available to the public", "The democrats of the 1880’s and 1890’s? Corporations have had personhood a lot longer than you think they have.\n\nEdit; why are you people mad? Citizens United was not the beginning of corporate personhood, it was the civil rights Supreme Court cases of the 1880’s and 1890s. Democratic Supreme Court justices reinterpreted the civil rights amendments to the constitution to apply to corporations and not human beings. It was part of southern cage politics and the white supremacy campaigns of the 1890’s. Haven’t you chuckleheads heard of Josephus Daniels or the Wilmington riots?", "Ever heard that cunt Shapiro say “facts don’t care about your feelings”?\n\n(For the record, I think he’s a cunt).\n\nBut your naive and ignorant comments are playing to his narrative. If you don’t really understand what’s going on please just shut the fuck up.", "\"There are very fine people on both sides.\" Trump when asked to denounce neo-nazis.", "People say cops need to be held to a higher standard (and that's true) but not enough is said about judges.\n\nThey are PhD-equivalents in their fields. A judge needs to understand the law on the deepest level and be recognized as a legal scholar in their own right. They are the ones who need to be held to the highest standard, because unlike a cop their whole job is understanding the law and making judgements based upon it.", "It’s weird for a consul to get involved directly with a judge. Normally they will hire a lawyer who can make representations, appeals etc in open court.", "Sure. But if I hear news that a public official did something wildly racist/sexist/greedy/inhumane/insane, I feel pretty confident putting money on \"conservative.\" You won't win every time. But you'll win most of the time.", "The worst part is that it seems to be rubbing off on other countries as well. I don't want to choose between dog shit or septic tank, but it seems like it's heading that way.", "All I said was he resigned and to think more critically. You can compare both shitty parties and the pedophiles in them all day. At the end of the day both parties are corrupt and shit. Trump was a better president than Biden, and I voted for biden. My bad.", "It totally is since it makes the comment less visible.", ">This is probably the fifth+ time she's seen this family in court, certainly not the first\n\nDozens of times:\n\n>The judges and lawyers I've spoken to about Gorcyca's conduct in the Tsimhoni case invariably note that she lashed out against the Tsimhoni children only after dozens of hearings in which the children and their mother were repeatedly called to account for violating the court's orders mandating parenting time with their father.\n\n>\"What I hate is the lack of context,\" said Daniel Bates, a seasoned divorce mediator who was among the lawyers waiting to show their support for Gorcyca when a bailiff unlocked the doors to her courtroom at 8:30 Wednesday morning. \"It's like taking one photo out of a five-and-a-half year movie.\"\n\n[source](https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/brian-dickerson/2016/07/07/lisa-gorcyca-jtc/86748326/)", "More time than rapists, murderers, pedophiles (sometimes combined), and sometimes less than drug dealers.", "The mother literally has zero power here. What is she supposed to do?", "Dude let his kids be sent to FOSTER CARE because they didn’t want to talk to him. you haven’t been paying much attention if you think a group foster home is an appropriate punishment for anything.", "You haven't been paying much attention if you think that the court leaving them in the care of the mother if they believe that she's been malicious is a good idea either.", "Some days it seems that children are more property than people until they're 18.", "Then they should punish the mother. This isn’t that hard. If they have evidence that she is mentally abusing children that should be addressed.", "Probably not. I don't think imgur uses underscores.", "Would have been addressed by removing them from her care... Which is what the judge did.", "Highest, per capita, of any nation. And that includes China and North Korea, folks.\n\n>Prison rates in the US are the world's highest, at 724 people per 100,000. In Russia the rate is 581.\n\nEdit: note that this is not by any means a flex or a brag. I'm just stating facts here.", "The judge is literally claiming to do this for the dad’s benefit. All he had to do was speak up. You deserve to have your kids resent you if you, as a grown ass man, would silently let them go to jail just as revenge for them supposedly being brainwashed against you. I don’t give a shit if my kid hates my guts of their own free will. I’m not going to let them go to fucking jail for it.", ">I'm not sure I understand why you don't want police and government officials to be able to be sued for mistakes.\n\nLet's go to extremes to prove a easy point.\n\nThere is a bomb in a building, the bomb squad fails and it blows up, killing like 10 civilians.\n\nqualified immunity makes it so the families of those victims cannot bring the family of that officer to court.\n\nOr like a high speed chase. Something happens and a cop crashes into someone in an accident. That cop is immune from being sued because it was during his duties.\n\nThe same protections apply to ambulance and fire trucks.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIt's not meant to protect misconduct, it's just used to.", "i wonder if it would he illegal for her to wear her robes when she appears in court", "The judge is clearly against the mother and for the father. So no, the mother couldn’t step in. The judge literally banned the mother’s entire side of the family from visiting the kid in juvie. What the fuck power does she have to stop them from going to jail in the first place?", "Well, she made it pretty clear she was punishing them for not complying with her order. She never once claimed to be protecting them from anything. If there was evidence of abuse that should be addressed.", "The kids literally won’t interact with their father *on threat of going to fucking jail. What is the mom supposed to do??", "\n> Canadian law and policy mean nothing to me and are irrelevant in this discussion.\n\nI figured we weren't done with this. This is not law, it is medical ethics. Nor is it policy, it is medical ethics. Nor is it exclusive to Canada, this just happened to be a blurb on the medical ethics written by the Canadian Paediatrics Society, it is entirely contemporary with the field of medical ethics. And you continue to try to shoo it away as Canadian. This is basic medical ethics.\n\nMedical ethics is an integral part of medicine. It can't be separated from the practice of medicine. There is a reason why doctors take the Hippocratic Oath of first do no harm. We can't separate this from the discussion of medical necessity.\n\n> Except I didn't make the decision.\n\nYou are ignoring the rest of what was said: or you assented to the decision. If you said \"no\" the surgeon would have most likely not performed the procedure (I'm only saying most likely because there's a very small outside chance the doctor would do it.)\n\nJust like the medical ethics above, you are ignoring what was said.\n\n> I came out swinging because you were patently wrong, and are attempting intellectual dishonesty to bolster your argument.\n\nYou are swinging at the person, thus an attack. You were not discussing the topic, you attacked the other, thus swinging.\n\n> Mandibular Osteotomy is often not a medical necessity, just like circumcision. \n\nFrom: https://www.healthline.com/health/uneven-jaw\n\nAn uneven jaw can contribute to issues with eating, sleeping, talking, and breathing. There are a range of causes of an uneven jaw. Some cases can be treated and improved with physical therapy. Others may require corrective surgery.\n\nYeah sounds medically necessary to me, like I said before. Are you confusing medically necessary to mean that it must be immediately life saving? That's not what it is. \n\nAnd we already covered this too: Back to circumcision, foreskin however is normal anatomy. Foreskin is not malformation, misalignment, birth defect, or an injury. It is normal, healthy, and functional body tissue. Any benefit from circumcision has a different and more effective treatment or prevention.\n\n> So is an underbite. That's what Mandibular Osteotomy corrects.\n\nAt the point of the above necessitating surgery, it is not normal anatomy. It is a malformation, misalignment, birth defect, or an injury. Foreskin is not any of those. And you want to suggest that the other is discussing in bad faith? Sheesh.\n\n> But the person I responded to did, you interjected on their behalf.\n\nI responded to you. To you.* And I responded to your points that I wanted to respond to.\n\nI do not need to pick up someone else's talking points. It's as simple as that. And you want to accuse the other of bad faith? That's quite something.\n\n> The person I responded to \n\nWhen I say no one that is common terminology for the discussion between me and you. \n\nGo ahead and talk to that other person then. Really. Go ahead. I responded to you with my own talking points.\n\n>At this point you seem like the person who thinks that a wall of irrelevant text and deliberately disingenuous arguments are equivalent to \"winning.\"\n\nAnd you lash out again. Medical ethics are very relevant. As are human rights. This was short btw, barely discussed anything. I think this is an attempt to disregard all the sources and prevent me from presenting any more. Well that won't work.\n\nMore on human rights and medical ethics:\n\n\n>The human rights era started with the formation of the United Nations in 1945, which was charged with the promotion of human rights. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) was the first major document to define human rights. Medical doctors have an ethical duty to protect the human rights and human dignity of the patient so the advent of a document that defines human rights has had its effect on medical ethics.[32] Most codes of medical ethics now require respect for the human rights of the patient.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_ethics", "The orders don’t have any force. It would be amazing if a person would disobey an order and automatically cops would show up at your door and arrest you. Unfortunately orders are disobeyed all the time and then lawyers are hired and need to file motion for order to show causes in order to enforce those orders and then there’s still only a 50/50 chance that the Judge will award any sanctions against the other party. It’s more of a moral thing. Just like speeding or running red lights. It is against the law but for some reason many many people still do it. If you are a shitty person, you’ll keep breaking these laws because why not? No one will enforce it. But if you think there’s a meaning in life and you are a morally good person; you are more inclined to follow orders and follow the speed limit.", "Piece of human garbage.", "I made zero statement to this case other than say how awful divorces can be.", "Yeah. He just needs to exit their lives and then fund them for life like mommy wants.", "And now you come out swinging at the person again, instead of discussing the topic. So ad-hominem fallacy. This matches the previous trend.\n\nAnd now you do the \"you made me go to the other side\" fallacy in another attempt to attack. Yup, that was easy to see through.\n\nAnd a third attack!\n\nI notice no discussion of the medicine or the medical ethics. \n\nSo we're back to the medical ethics. If you want to circumcise other people, eg newborns, it must be medically necessary to do to. It's that straightforward.", "Bench trials are a thing. You'd think they would have more expertise than a random 12 person subsection of the city the lawyers get to hand pick lol.", "Dad got custody fyi. Dad was a good man.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqcs7qo", "> So ad-hominem fallacy\n\nStop making up terms, there's no such thing. Take a day to stop posting about circumcisions and read a book about something other than dick skins.\n\n> I notice no discussion of the medicine or the medical ethics.\n\nBecause there's no point, you are just reposting the same shit you do in multiple forums everyday.\n\nI don't give a shit about canadian law or policy, they are irrelevant and no amount of reposting them is going to make it relevant to me.\n\n> f you want to circumcise other people, eg newborns, it must be medically necessary to do to.\n\nNope, in the US if you want to circumcise a baby all you need is to consent to it as their legal guardian. Nothing you say changes that fact.", "[https://imgur.com/a/UA1DWkK](https://imgur.com/a/UA1DWkK) FIXED IT\n\nThey only gave me one diploma buts it’s a full double major. Spanish and History. That’s right I got an honors degree in a foreign language.", "There's plenty of details in the thread... Judge was correct that mom was coaching the kids. Dad ended up with custody. There was no veracity to their violence claim... The judge listened to the workers lmfao.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqcs7qo", "They all espouse that her decision was wrong without knowing what her decision was to begin with. Don't waste your time arguing with them. It's futile.\n\nShe believed the mother to be coercive. The Child did literally coercion-victim 101 and the judge wasn't having any of it. Since the Judge didn't want to return the children to the mother without the father at least being a part of the picture to moderate and be present, sending the kids to a foster care facility is exactly a good answer until shit gets resolved, and specifically the kids get evaluated for any potential psychiatric needs (which did happen...).\n\nPeople who watch this video and nothing else are flipping out... Eating up the media hype. Everyone else who read anything additional on the matter have realized that this was actually pretty reasonable.\n\nHer words were stern to try to \"break\" the kids using fear... Which may not have been the \"best\" answer. But that's often a way to break coercion affected people... Make them fear the repercussions of going along with the story.", "Right, but your examples assume that the truth is always known.\n\nIn your example, I believe that the families of the victims should be able to sue the bomb squad even though it seems like there's very little chance at all that they'll win. It will cost them a lot of money and time for absolutely no gain, but I don't like that the state gets a blanket tool to deny their ability to sue for perceived misconduct. It's their right to seek legal remedy for perceived damages.\n\nAs for the high speed chase, you assume that's known that it was an accidental crash. Even though it's in the officer's duties to engage in high speed pursuits, I absolutely don't believe that should render a cop immune from lawsuits. What if the cop was on their 15th hour of work? What if they tested positive for substances that could affect his ability to drive? If a truck driver was performing their duty and accidentally crashed into a car, they absolutely would be sued. Why does the state get to decide that a truck driver is responsible for their driving but a cop isn't? The merit of a suit should be determined in a court, not by some blanket of immunity that the government gives itself.", "Damn man. You got me. Talk about a desperate need to try and feel superior over somebody. Imagine using 'you play video games' as an insult. Lmfao.\n\nYou actually had to dig 10 days back in my comments for a 'Look at how much better I am than you' over video games? Yikes.", "Imagine that anyone of us could have a judge who got out of bed angry, or just follows their own code on a whim like this.", "I didn't read anything in that paragraph that gives any proof that the dad was a good man. All I saw was a bunch of lawyers defending the judge. \n\nSo once again.. How the fuck would ANY of them know what happens behind closed doors when these kids are alone with their dad?", "Your mom.", "That as nothing to do with what we're talking about polska_kielbasa\n\nJudges orders are enforced by bailiffs, police, social workers, and jails/prisons with physical force and detention lmfao. What?", "> medical ethics written by the Canadian Paediatrics Society\n\nMeans absolutely nothing to me. It's irrelevant. You may as well be quoting Nigerian Paediatrics Society. I don't give a shit what they say.\n\nBy US law the parents have a right to consent to a circumcision. That's it. Nothing you say otherwise is relevant.\n\n> When I say no one that is common terminology for the discussion between me and you.\n\nYou are only saying that now because you were unaware that the person I was talking to did the exact thing you stated wasn't being done.\n\n> Medical ethics are very relevant. \n\nIt has no relevance to a parent's rights.\n\nNothing you say has any impact on the subject. Parents have a right to have their child circumcised no amount of twisting of facts or sighting of irrelevant medical societies changes that. By law a parent can have their child circumcised. Get a hobby other than baby dicks you weirdo.", "> Automatically assuming any corruption you see on the internet is the republicans fault is ignorant.\n\nyeah but this is reddit where blaming the republicans is solid strategy for point farmers.", "Or a testament to how much mommy has poisoned the children against their father. Regardless. Everyone's lives in that situation are pretty well fucked.", "Oh, you mean THIS Democratic Party? \n\n“The Democratic Party has changed significantly during its more than two centuries of existence. During the 19th century the party supported or tolerated slavery, and it opposed civil rights reforms after the American Civil War in order to retain the support of Southern voters.”", "Jesus, stfu idiot.", "From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem\n\n>Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. \n\nAnd you double down on the ad-hominem fallacy too! \n\n>Because there's no point\n\nAnd now that you can't give any response, you try to cop out instead, with basically an attempt at a thinly veiled ad-hominem fallacy.\n\n>I don't give a shit about canadian law or policy\n\nWe covered this: I figured we weren't done with this. This is not law, it is medical ethics. Nor is it policy, it is medical ethics. Nor is it exclusive to Canada, this just happened to be a blurb on the medical ethics written by the Canadian Paediatrics Society, it is entirely contemporary with the field of medical ethics. And you continue to try to shoo it away as Canadian. This is basic medical ethics.\n\n> they are irrelevant\n \nWe covered this too:\nMedical ethics is an integral part of medicine. It can't be separated from the practice of medicine. There is a reason why doctors take the Hippocratic Oath of first do no harm. We can't separate this from the discussion of medical necessity.", "I didn’t say that. I said the system and crazy ex’s can make people do stupid things. \n\nI think both parents are focusing on hurting one another and using their kids.", "\"Real snarky. Real bullshit. Judge Karen continues...\"", "She made it clear that she didn't want to hear about unsubstantiated nonsense of \"abuse\" from the father. This was an 8+ year lawsuit. Where the mother had 16 separate lawyers (red flag). All of which trying to claim repeatedly that the father was abusive (unsubstantiated every time). \n\nSo the Judge now has to believe that the mother has attempted to coerce the children to sway the judge... again... The judge appears to have tried to defeat the coercion by \"breaking\" the children. Which can work, but clearly didn't this time. Regardless the judge doesn't particularly want the children to go back to the mother, and since the kids don't want to go to the father, she sends them to foster care until they're ready to see the father.\n\nDuring that time they get a psych eval... eventually live with the father... then more stuff happens and goes back to the mother with 68% custody.\n\nNothing the Judge did was actually \"wrong\" here... maybe the wrong approach, but still the correct outcome.\n\nThis guy has several sources that show exactly how what I said could be substantiated.\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqb7yns/\n\nSo no it wasn't a \"punishment\". It was an attempt to break coercion so they stop vilifying their father who apparently has done nothing provably wrong in the past 8 years of court... otherwise the case would have been settled years ago if the mother could have proven anything at all with 16 lawyers over that time.\n\nEdit: It's actually very likely that those kids went back to an abusive mother BECAUSE the judge has to recuse herself from hearing the case after the complaint and backlash. But I don't know how the timing of all of that went down. If anything the publish backlash probably put those kids back into the actual abusers hands... at least for 68% of \"primary\" custody.", "... I'm sentencing you to Reddit kiddie jail. Quit being so obtuse and go read Well_This_Is_Special. Judge's orders.", "Yeah, I wasn’t commenting on what the judge did, more on what she understood was actually happening within the family. I should have made that clear. \n\nI completely agree that the judge did not act in the best interest of the kids.\n\nShe was obviously angry/frustrated and did the wrong thing as a result.\n\nThe way I see it, the judge was taking her frustrations with the mother out on the kids, instead of treating them like the victims here, and that was a terrible thing to do.", "That’s not what the initial conversation was about that I had with the initial redditor. You are going off a tangent btw. I’m not going to argue with you unless you have a JD you little muppet. Your argument is flawed btw", "I appreciate you 🙏🏻 I sincerely hope these kids are able to attend individualized therapy without parental involvement.", "> By US law the parents have a right to consent to a circumcision. That's it. Nothing you say otherwise is relevant.\n\nthere's no US law that says that. \n\nUS law says the penetration of a person's genital opening, however slight, without that person's consent constitutes sexual assault with an object.", "Thanks. I'm caught up now. \n\nMy comment was 9 hours before the one you linked.\n\nNot sure why this thread is so hostile...", "Threatened with isolation or indirect violence to have a relationship with someone?\n\n... It almost feels like the Judge was complicit in domestic violence here. She was trying to force/coerce/compel the children to have a relationship with their father.", "What the fuck are you babbling about? \n\nAlso, just in case there actually is something in one of those articles you posted (which I doubt) that says \"OH, and by the way, the dad is actually a good man! :D\" I'll still ask the same fucking question. \n\nHow. THe fuck. WOuld they know. \n\n90% of the people you could ask who know/have known my dad would say he's a good man. \n\nUnless you ask ME or one of the few people in my life who has first-hand witnessed the full on physical abuse he subjected me to my entire life. \n\nSo. Now YOU can also go fuck yourself you arrogant prick.", "> Circumcision has nothing to do with a male's capacity to reproduce. \"my body, my choice.\" is not relevant to that procedure, and the use of the slogan by the person I responded to, by his own admission, was an attempt to weaken the argument for abortion rights.\n\nhow do you get \"a male's capacity to reproduce\" out of \"my body, my choice\"?", "> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem\n> Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.\n\nMaybe you should take the time to actually read that and my post. \n\nYou said this: \n\n> So ad-hominem fallacy\n\nYou mixed \"logical fallacy\" with \"ad-hominem\" to make up an imaginary fallacy.\n\nDo I need to slowly explain to you why that term makes no sense, especially since you've just posted the definition of the first part of your made up term?\n\n> you try to cop out instead, with basically an attempt at a thinly veiled ad-hominem fallacy.\n\nIt's \"ad-hominem ATTACK.\"\n\nHoly shit.\n\n> Nor is it policy, it is medical ethics. Nor is it exclusive to Canada\n\nCanada is Canada, I don't care what your cherry picked example says. I'm not Canadian.\n\nBy law, in the United States, a parent can consent to a circumcision for their baby. No authority/society/lodge/government/weirdo on the internet can infringe on that.\n\nTake a break from thinking about baby dicks and go take a class at your local community college. Talk to people about something other than your interest in baby dicks.", "Yeah, the judge acted emotionally and attacked the kids. She didn’t do her job properly.", "> Except the discussion we're having here about circumcision and the bad faith attempt to use the \"my body my choice\" or more aptly, to weaken the \"my body my choice\" slogan by tying it to a parent's choice to have their children circumcised.\n\napplying it consistently strengthens it.", "Yeah, I completely agree.", "Am I the only one getting heavy Ghislaine Maxwell vibes from this \"Judge\"?", "a violation of a person's bodily autonomy is a violation of a person's bodily autonomy. it doesn't need to be the same violation.\n\nyour claims that parents have a legal right to push it on their son would suggest it is legally forced on male babies at birth. why does it matter who's doing the forcing?", "The judge is the only one there that should be completely on the kids' sides and she abandoned them. It's really sad to hear.", "Yet you keep replying too... once again missing the entire point. Sad, low energy.", "Yeah I don't think you are either.\n\nBut there wasn't anything wrong with the rape analogy, albeit a bit over the top but I guess he's trying to drive the point home that you can't be certain someone is lying or telling the truth without any proof and you're claiming he's abusive without evidence/proof.\n\nIn this case it seems the judge has more info and both parents are vile, disgusting people but neither are \"violent\" to the kids, at least anymore than each other.", "So parents shouldn't have the right to consent to medical procedures for their children?\n\nWho do you think a dentist asks consent from prior to something like braces?\n\nThis is a deliberate attempt to over simplify a complicated issue as a means to strip women of abortion rights.", "> Means absolutely nothing to me. It's irrelevant. \n\nWe covered this: Medical ethics is an integral part of medicine. It can't be separated from the practice of medicine. There is a reason why doctors take the Hippocratic Oath of first do no harm. We can't separate this from the discussion of medical necessity.\n\nShould I try bolding this part so it's read? Ok. All of western medicine operates under the same medical ethics. Yup.\n\nShall we try a different source? Ok. \n\n\n[“There is growing consensus among physicians, including those in the United States, that physicians should discourage parents from circumcising their healthy infant boys because nontherapeutic circumcision of underage boys in Western societies has no compelling health benefits, causes postoperative pain, can have serious long-term consequences, constitutes\na violation of the United Nations’ Declaration of the Rights of the Child, and conflicts with the Hippocratic oath: primum non nocere: First, do no harm.”](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896)\n\n\n\n> By US law \n\nDon't confuse currently legal to mean that it's medically ethical. That's about it. \n\n \n> You are only saying that now because you were unaware that the person \n\nNo, it is a common phrase. Verryyyy common.\n\n> It has no relevance to a parent's rights.\n\nIt has to do with the rights of the patient. Yup. People have a right to body autonomy.\n\nLet's discuss: Who has rights? Really, who has them?\n\nThe answer is individuals have rights. Individual people have inherent and fundamental human rights.\n\nIndividuals can practice whatever they'd like to on themselves. But to infringe on some other individual's inherent human rights requires, wait for it, medical necessity. Without medical necessity that individual themselves can decide for themself.\n\n\n>Parents have a right \n\nAgain don't confuse the current legal right to mean that it's medically ethical. Yup.\n\n>twisting of facts\n\nI like this. You don't say how any facts have been twisted, but you try to paint the idea that they have. Basically an unsubstantiated claim. \n\nAnd we've barely scraped the medical facts at all, iirc this conversation has been limited to medical ethics and that's all that has been discussed. We have a lot more to go if you want to get into the hard facts. (Btw this seems like an attempt to preemptively attack any further facts.)\n\n\n>or sighting of irrelevant medical societies \n\nAnother attempt to shoo away what you don't like. So again all of western medicine operates on the same medical ethics. See additional source above.\n\n>By law a parent \n\nBack to the law again. Yeah it seems clear that you can't counter the medical ethics so you rely on 'current law'. Well as above it's not the same as medical ethics. \n\nAnd you close with what I'm going to call an ad-hominem fallacy. X2. X3. Yup. Wasn't it you that previously accused the other of discussing in bad faith? Quite a lot of ad-hominem fallacies for that accusation.", "\n Don't deliberately misquote me. \"My body, my choice.\" is a slogan used to advocate for abortion rights for women. I think you know that but are trying to muddy the argument. Don't deliberately misquote me.", "the amputation of a normal and healthy body part in the absence of a diagnosis of disease or deformity is not a medical procedure. it's an elective body mod, like nipple piercing or tongue splitting.\n\nparents absolutely should not get to choose nipple piercing or tongue splitting for their newborn.\n\nany dentist who forcibly installs braces on an adolescent or teenager who actively says \"no, i don't want these\" is a bad person.\n\nthis is a deliberate attempt to strip men of bodily integrity rights and sexual pleasure.", "It is applied consistently. Circumcision has nothing to do with reproductive rights of men.", "\"my body, my choice\" doesn't end with reproductive rights.", "If mom is abusive, which I don’t doubt, then we are seeing three shitty adults using children as tools in their own battles. Punishing the children for the mothers poor behavior is not the solution. Neither the father the mother nor the judge appears to be acting in the children’s best interest. Had they simply had dinner with the father she was willing to forgo the entire foster care option, and remit them to the mothers custody. So, no she was not protecting them from the mother, she was attempting to control them through force. That’s a problem.", "\"my body, my choice\" is a slogan used to advocate bodily autonomy. if you say \"my body, my choice\" applies only to reproductive rights and nothing else, you are the one weakening the slogan. that would mean that the people parroting the slogan do not truly believe a person deserves to have a say over their own body in all cases.", "> there's no US law that says that.\n\nhttps://www.health.ny.gov/professionals/ems/policy/99-09.htm\n\n> Any person who has been married or who has borne a child may give effective consent for medical, dental, health and hospital services for his or her child.\n\nThat's one of probably 100 such laws across the country just like that.\n\n> US law says the penetration of a person's genital opening, however slight, without that person's consent constitutes sexual assault with an object.\n\nSo you consider prostate exams to be sexual assault?\n\nNo of course not because what you said is factually wrong. There is no single US law about sexual assault rather dozens of laws across all 50 states. Which goes well beyond your deliberately over simplified definition of sexual assault.\n \nYour arguments are weak.", "None? Both? \"Corporations are people\" is a shitshow of people having no idea what is meant.", "I agree wholeheartedly. These kids should not have been penalized, they're victims either way. If they're alienated from their father at their mother's hand, they're enduring emotional abuse. If they're truly afraid of their father because he's violent, they're enduring emotional abuse by being forced to spend time with him. Possibly physical abuse if he was violent towards them. These kids do not win. These cases are heartbreaking.", "Judges have a plethora of social workers, police, and interviewers that determine that. The judge rules on what they find. Just like this case did and countless others.\n\nDo you really need a basic intro on custody laws? There are plenty of lawyers above who have already commented on these scenarios lol.", "Not even when it would appear that the mother had been coaching them to lie and directly coerced them into it? You don't see the benefit at all of forcing a line of communication between a father and his kids to get around the mother's bullshit?\n\nHow about after counseling and the professionals saying that they've been manipulated?\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqb7yns/\n\nWhere it was recommended to remove them from the mother's care?\n\nStill don't see how it could be useful to \"force\" the kids to spend time with a father who apparently hadn't done anything provable in the 8 years that the case was being heard for?", "Kind of depends on the context. Mixing lobbying with campaign contributions is a lot different from expressing an opinion.", "The last time I commented about PoE was 10 days ago. That's page 7, bud.\n\nYou're really desperate to try and feel superior, aren't you? Lmao", "It tiptoes into fathers'/mothers' rights territory, which can be a beast of its own. There might be hostility from that alone. No harm in asking, especially since a large part of Reddit isn't familiar with family court in the US.", "> \"my body, my choice\" is a slogan used to advocate bodily autonomy\n\nBY WHOM!? What group popularized that slogan, that's what you're deliberately trying to ignore.", "I win! Hooray! Awww, it was only against polska_kielbasa. Boooooo~", "where does that law say penis customization is a medical service?\n\nprostate exams are 100% sexual assault when done without the consent of the person being examined. if a doctor sticks a finger up your butt without your consent, he belongs on the registry.", "So in other words: you object to parents having the right to consent to medical procedures for their children.\n\nYou are against parental rights.\n\n> any dentist who forcibly installs braces on an adolescent or teenager who actively says \"no, i don't want these\" is a bad person.\n\nWhat if the child is wrong to object to it and the braces are in fact there to improve the quality of their life but they are too inexperienced to know that?\n\nThat's why you aren't a consenting adult until you are at least 18. Because as a society we know that the parents more often than not have their children's best interest at heart and thus we endowed them with the authority and right to consent on their behalf knowing that you can not trust a child to make such a determination.\n\nYou want people to stop circumcising their kids? Convince their parents it's not needed. Stop trying to tie it to abortion rights, it's inappropriate and irrelevant to that discussion.\n\nMale circumcision has nothing to do with reproductive rights and by his own admission the argument was made in an effort to weaken abortion rights for women by the OP.", "r/SelfAwarewolves", "I wrote my screen name and date on it. Look closer\n\nGo through my post history. My story has stayed consistent for 6 years\n\nI don’t live with my parents lol\n\nI live in a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house I own with my husband and kids and dog. Since 2007. Before that I lived with my husband in an apartment.", "again, penis customization is not a medical procedure. if there's no diagnosis of disease or deformity, any surgery being performed is an elective body mod.\n\ni am 100% against parents getting to decide how many fingers or toes their child is allowed to keep. and i am 100% against them getting to choose which genital parts should be cut off of their female child.\n\ndoes that make me against parental rights?", "I think the larger part is there are a ton of triggered redditors with their own trauma behind not being believed due to their age as children or teens.\n\nUnfortunately that has no bearing on how this judge ruled. Society can only work on the judgment and professional opinions of those we give them to. The case workers said dad was not violent, judge goes by what they say. That's it lol.\n\nAs it turns out judge was right too. Of course it's not going to be correct 100% of the time. Sociopaths and psychopaths are a thing. Same with having two shitty parents. It's all far more complicated than this false outrage at a judge doing what she believed to be right at the time. Who was then properly admonished, corrected, and reinstated.\n\nUnfortunately nuance dies at the headline for Reddit. It was worded to prime people against the judge. You could have easily seen the same video but primed to how mom coached the kids and people would be flooding to the judges rescue first and instead bringing up about how they were coached as children.", "by each and every group that uses the slogan. nobody except you only applies it to reproductive rights.", "Forcing them to spend time with dad... to realize that he isn't as abusive as \"mom says\" is probably what the goal was. \n\nIf they see through mom's bullshit, they can show up to the next hearing and make a report that they had a good time and shit can move forward in a positive manner. If mom keeps pushing, the kids will have first hand evidence that she's full of shit and be more likely to speak up next time that she's not playing by the rules.\n\nRemember, the judge needs evidence to do something like punish the mother.\n\nThis was reasonable. Hundreds of professionals agree. It's only the reddit and media mafia that disagree and don't read or look into the whole story. Then all that backlash makes the Judge leave the case and the next guy has to tread lightly because they might get in trouble like the last person.", "Yes. The democratic party of the 1890’s. Not the one of modern day. Are people truly so brain dead as to not know the difference?", "You mean submitted? Lmfao. That was 2 months ago. You're really trying to feel substantial, huh? Holy shit, you're sad. Lmao", "Given how she was describing it to the kid, it was definitely being stated as a threatened punishment and described in terms of loss of freedom: \"do you like going to the bathroom in front of people?\". While it is also described as a 'juvenile detention facility' in the video, that description is per the narrator.\n\n~~Not jail? Yeah, I'll agree to that. But not imprisonment? Mmmmm... if you interpret it strictly as \"placement in prison\" then also agreed, if you interpret as \"confined by the state with loss of freedoms\" then it sounds like it qualifies.~~\n\nOk, as I was typing this out I did some research and Children's Village is ABSOLUTELY a jail/prison facility - it's just a specialty jail for minors. [Here is a news walkthrough of the facility](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-W7pAul16o) - starting at time 1m23s you can see the standard jail cell setup that makes up one of their 'rooms'.\n\nAgain: news agencies are likely to sensationalize, but unless they faked the footage outright that was definitely a jail cell shown.\n\nEdit: thinking this over, I'm willing to rephrase. Children's Village definitely includes a jail at the very least. I do not know for sure if that represents the entire facility.", "DV also known as \"Deep Love.\"", "Fair, that doesn't seem as bad as standard juvie, though it doesn't say which program they are in. \n\nIt seems heavily implied in the video that at the time she had custody and he had visitation rights.", "I dislike intellectual dishonesty. You know the slogan was popularized by abortion rights advocates. When you knowingly lie to avoid admitting it it just makes you like a contemptable slime ball.", "> again, penis customization is not a medical procedure. if there's no diagnosis of disease or deformity, any surgery being performed is an elective body mod.\n\nSorry to be the one to tell you this but you are not the one who determines the definition of it. Circumcision is a medical procedure.", "You have no basis for this claim other than the fact the television show made it seem that way. The judge was later cleared for this behavior, and the father received primary custody at a later date, probably from the brainwashing being true (which constitutes parental alienation by the mother, an offence in family court that usually awards more if not full custody to the opposite party). The reality of the situation is that this divorce is exceptionally toxic and neither parent cares about how it affects the children which is why it went on for 8+ years (this clip was from the start of it). \n\nHow smart do you feel right now?", "I agree with that idea, but the implementation was entirely unreasonable and punitive. Her actions were found improper by two separate judicial reviews, one from the state Supreme Court. I agree with them.", "Ikr? My parents only give me 7.5k a month. Like WTF. I have NEEDS!", "Why are you trying to act like playing video games means I'm lower than you? You posted about fucking FFX 2 months ago being one of your 'favs of all time', but you're going to act like some cringey intellectual and pretend you don't know what FFXIV is and attempt to talk down to me? Lmfao.\n\nYou give off a super hard cringe-incel vibe, FYI.", "I am a progressive. Neither Dem nor Republican. Since The democratic party is the only party that seems to be interested in progressive voices, I end up more in that cesspool than I do in the worse, more vile cesspool of the GOP. Both parties (with a few significant exceptions) are in the pockets of corporate America. Obviously they are not, as a whole, committed to making things better for anyone other than their donors.", "> where does that law say penis customization is a medical service?\n\nThe law doesn't need to define each and every procedure as or not as a medical procedure.\n\nThe fact is circumcisions are a medical procedure that parents have the right to consent to by law.\n\nYour assertion that: \"there's no US law that says that.\" was factually wrong as I've shown. I gave you a direct link showing you that you were wrong and quoted one of the relevant sections.\n\nWhen you can admit you are wrong you let me know, otherwise you are beneath my considerations and I won't respond to you.", "You commented about Horizon Zero Dawn and Cyberpunk 'on your rig' a year ago also, when the game came out, but I figured pointing out the FFX reference drove home how extra stupid you are that you tried to pretend you didn't know what FFXIV is. Lmao.\n\nAlso, glad to know you were a kid in 2001, tracks with your cringe-incel vibes.", "> The fact is circumcisions are a medical procedure that parents have the right to consent to by law.\n\nprove it. do you know what the word medical means?\n\nno, you didn't show my assertion was factually wrong, as you haven't shown a direct link that says anything about partial penile amputation.", "The fact that to her it was simply go hang out with your violent father or spend time in childrens village until you graduate high school shows exactly how much this woman should not be presiding over divorce court proceedings. The fact that ANYONE could dispute she did the right thing is baffling to me. Those poor kids were traumatized unnecessarily because of this woman. Bravo Michigan. You killed it once again with your tone deafness when it comes to family court. “I told you…”…the nerve of this fucking woman. The state of Michigan should be ASHAMED of the way they handled the disciplinary hearing for this “judge”. She’s a bully. She was 100% out of fucking line with her behavior during that hearing. You are there in the best interests of the children, not the parents, you bitch.", ">Supporting your kids being sent to jail because they don't want to talk to you is not normal and shouldn't be.\n\nNot because they don't want to, because they've been turned against you. I don't know what to tell you, if you are wronged, it's pretty normal to want to defend yourself and/or fight back. It's why they call it a custody \"battle.\"\n\nAnother commenter replied to me about their own situation where they were the child, their father voluntarily gave up custody. The difference was the relationship between the father and mother was good, here it is not. \n\nYou're right that what the father did here wasn't noble, but if you can't see yourself in that position than you're not being genuine, I'm defending the humanity of those actions and unrealistic expectations only being met by the father. You would NOT let yourself be done dirty by the mother here. Also, he was given primary custody at a later date, which probably means the parental alienation (brainwashing) claims had legitimacy. That's how family court seems to punish it, by awarding more if not, full custody to the other parent.", "> prove it. do you know what the word medical means?\n\nI already did. It's not my fault you aren't man enough to take in new information and admit you are wrong.", "I think that not many people these days are aware that the ideology and political stance of the Democratic Party have shifted so far over the 194 years since it’s inception. \n\nFounded by Andrew Jackson and Martin Van Buren in January of 1828 after the former Democratic-Republican Party, founded by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison in the early 1790’s, splintered into the current Democratic Party and the Whig Party which later splintered again with a large portion becoming the current Republican Party.\n\n“The Whigs favored an activist economic program known as the American System, which called for a protective tariff, federal subsidies for the construction of infrastructure, and support for a national bank. The party also advocated modernization, meritocracy, the rule of law, protections against majority tyranny, and vigilance against executive tyranny.”", "you did nothing to demonstrate that penis customization is a medical service.", "I like how you're trying to avoid the whole 'you game I'm better than you' thing, why's that? Feeling a bit stupid now?\n\nAnd no, being an adult isn't cringe. Your existence is the cringe I'm referring to, bud. You couldn't show more signs of being an incel in 5 posts if you tried.", "That seems more effective, hopefully they get justice", "Not saying this is what happened to your friends, or that it happens to everyone, but rape, sexual abuse, violence, psychological abuse, and every other horror you can think of happen just as often and cause greater damage in juvenile detention.\n\nThe older children abuse the younger children, the guards, medical professionals and other officials abuse all the children, and the cycle repeats itself.\n\nThese are so many cases of convicts, addicts, homeless and mental patients that report the worst experience was not prison, foster care or reform schools, it was extended juvenile detention.", "I already quoted the relevant law which gives parents the authority to consent to it.\n\nDon't like it? Too bad, no amount of your screeching is going to change that.\n\nI've literally be scrolling down your profile for minutes trying to find a post where you aren't talking about circumcisions.\n\nStop. Thinking. About. Baby. Dicks.", "Links are behind a paywall, but unless it says custody given to the dad or both lost the kids, doesn’t really change this situation with the judge", "[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonSwordAndShield/comments/hinnio/you_dont_need_to_post_about_it/fwj0mbm/) is all you need to show you're a cringe incel. Going to pretend you're better than me for playing games while you talk about EV training Pokemon? Lmfao.\n\nYou are impressively lonely, aren't you?\n\nEdit: Lmfaoooo, [God damn](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonSwordAndShield/comments/gmaljb/caught_a_gmax_gengar_in_a_beast_ball/fr3n9h0/) dude.", "judge karen!", "you quoted a law that gives parents the authority to consent to medical procedures. \n\nyou are asserting that penis customization is a medical procedure and therefore falls under that law, but you have not provided any evidence to back up that assertion. no amount of screeching is going to change that.\n\ni'll stop thinking about baby dicks when pedophiles stop customizing them to match their twisted sexual fetishes.", "You seem to misunderstand, I'm not saying you're a cringe incel because you were a kid in 2001.\n\nI'm just saying it follows the timeline of you obviously being a cringe incel. Mid-20's, forever alone, shit talking on the internet trying to pretend what you're not.\n\nThat's pretty accurate, right?", "Judge could have made the same decisions without verbally hammering the kids and indirectly causing the 'contempt' behavior.", "> you quoted a law that gives parents the authority to consent to medical procedures.\n\nSo when are you suing NYS to stop them from allowing circumcision?\n\nThat's what I thought, you aren't because you know you'll lose but you don't mind making these stupid arguments on the internet because you know you can just ignore facts when someone posts them. No need to discard your erroneous preconceived notions.\n\n> i'll stop thinking about baby dicks when pedophiles stop customizing them to match their twisted sexual fetishes.\n\nI would not be surprised at all to learn that you are on a sex offender registry list in your area, or will eventually wind up on it.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection\n\nYou've done nothing but talk about circumcisions on the internet FOR TWO YEARS. You are a mentally disturbed individual.", "Oh, she didn't forbid the kids seeing their parents. She forbid them seeing their mother, or anyone on mum's side. Dad and dad's family were allowed to visit - specifically because she wanted to FORCE them to interact with him even when they don't want to.", "i don't have standing to sue NYS, as i'm not a resident of new york state and i certainly was never circumcised there. do you understand how legal standing works?\n\ndude, it goes back wayyyyy more than two years. my profile on reddit alone is six years old.", "They have a word for it. It’s deprogramming. Just like what happens when cult members are helped out of their brainwashing. \n\nCouldn’t be further from “1000%” brainwashing.", "You want to try making [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqd3j93/) again when you have over a hundred /r/PokemonTrades posts in the past year? \n\nFor real, why do you pretend like you're better than someone who plays video games, when you're arguably WAY more about them than the person you're shit talking?? Is that like a projection thing?", "Hey, please don't use \"spaz\" to mean \"mental health or anger management problems\". It comes from insulting people with conditions like epilepsy and Tourette's, who have \"spastic\" issues (hence \"spaz\") and which absolutely doesn't cause any mental health issues. People with these conditions get bullied tremendously in school, specifically with people going \"haha you're the spaz kid, you're psycho [also a bad one!] and we'll torment you for it\". Children are smarter than we give them credit for, and ABSOLUTELY do understand the meanings of these things and DO incorporate these insults into their understandings of people who live with disabilities. \n\nSource: teacher with Tourette's. Holy shit it's not fun.", "> i don't have standing to sue NYS\n\nSue in your state. I bet circumcisions happen in your state. You won't because you know you'll lose, I doubt an attorney would even take up your case.\n\n> dude, it goes back wayyyyy more than two years. my profile on reddit alone is six years old.\n\nYou need professional help. Get off the internet and go talk to a Psychologist/Psychiatrists.", "Can't wait until the children are old enough to explain that of course they suffered physical and psychological abuse from one or both parents, that they were terrified the whole time and afraid to say certain things in court (especially in front of both parents) and meanwhile the judge is yelling and threatening them.\n\nThe judge has no idea if the father is a \"good man who loves you\". The oldest boy is literally stating in court that the father is violent and the judge is saying \"no\". Because it's been unsubstantiated? \n\nAs we all know, when a child reports abuse and investigators aren't able to substantiate it, it definitely means the abuse never happened and the child is for sure lying, right? /s\n\nAfter all, the judge met the father, so she knows 100% whether or not he ever abused the children.\n\nAnd if the mother is abusing the children (which the judge seems to think since she uses the very scientific diagnosis of \"brainwashing\") the proper response is to punish the children. And to ask them why they don't talk to the father in front of the mom who she already believes is psychologically abusing them.\n\nI cannot begin to imagine the world people live in where any part of this is justifiable. Even if the father did nothing wrong. Even if the mother was an abusive psychopath. Even if the mother and the father did nothing wrong. There is no scenario in which the judge's behavior here made any sense.\n\nThree underage children don't just all together randomly start refusing to speak to their loving, caring non-abusive parent for no reason. Anyone with half a brain knows that.\n\nBut the judge refuses to believe the father could be abusive, so what's the explanation then? It has to be that the mother is the real abuser and she is psychologically manipulating the children. SO WHY IS THE JUDGE REPRIMANDING THE CHILDREN? WHY IS SHE ASKING THEM QUESTIONS IN FRONT OF THE MOTHER? If the judge is correct, the only person in the entire courtroom who should hear anything but support and understanding is the mother.\n\nCHILDREN ARE NOT AT FAULT FOR BEING ABUSED AND DEALING WITH TRAUMA <- what part of this mindset is confusing for people?\n\nFuck this judge and anyone who thinks this was reasonable. \n\nAll I'm seeing here, and from everything else I can gather, is that these are two terrible parents who are in a divorce battle where the most important thing is to \"win\" and it involves manipulating and hurting the children. I see a judge who treats parents like children and children like adults, and believes the proper way to treat children going through the massive trauma of being in divorce court is to threaten them with having to \"go to the bathroom in front of other people.\" These kids are nothing but victims and they'll be lucky not to have long lasting scars.", "You need professional help. I feel sorry about you", "i've been in touch with numerous lawyers about it already and they've all told me i don't have standing. the only person who would have standing is somebody who was circumcised as an infant for six months following his 18th birthday. that's decades ago for me.\n\nhttps://adfmedialegalfiles.blob.core.windows.net/files/WhatIsStanding.pdf\n\nthe only help i need is more people to protest with.", "I don't give a shit what the mother wants. The oldest is 13 that's plenty old enough to decide for himself if he wants to talk to his father during his court mandated lunches, and there is no legal justification to throw him in prison if he refuses.", ">> So ad-hominem fallacy\n> \n> You mixed \"logical fallacy\" with \"ad-hominem\" to make up an imaginary fallacy.\n\nWhat? An ad-hominem fallacy is a logical fallacy. I can't make any sense of this. Are you suggesting that because it says \"Ad-hominem\" and not \"Ad-hominem fallacy\" that it's not an ad-hominem fallacy? If that's the case, you're just trying to argue pedantics.\n\nOr are you suggesting that because the wiki article says \"some but not all of which are fallacious.\" that your use was not a fallacy? I still can't make any of this. And I literally explained how it matches. I said: \"And now you come out swinging at the person again, instead of discussing the topic. So ad-hominem fallacy. This matches the previous trend.\"\n\n>> you try to cop out instead, with basically an attempt at a thinly veiled ad-hominem fallacy.\n> \n> It's \"ad-hominem ATTACK.\"\n\nOk I see. Yup. You're trying to be pedantic now. This is an absurd degree of being pedantic. That's all it is. \n\nIs this where I point out your spelling mistakes? Is that the level you want to discuss on? Notice that I didn't and don't care about them. Because focusing on that is not productive discussion on the topic. (Just so you know for the record what I'm referring to, not that I care about it, it's not \"sighting\", it's \"citing\". Should I stomp up and down and say you're making up terms? Or, do I know what you mean and go with that? Yeah I just went with it.) And I still don't care about them.\n\n>Canada is Canada, I don't care what your cherry picked example says. I'm not Canadian.\n\nI already covered this in the other chain. https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqd0vcc/\n\n\n> By law, in the United States, a parent can consent to a circumcision for their baby. No authority/society/lodge/government/weirdo on the internet can infringe on that.\n\nSame with this, see the other chain. https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqd6cl/court_cam_judge_put_on_trial_for_threatening/hqd0vcc/\n\nOH and another ad-hominem. Should I add attack or fallacy? It doesn't matter, the point is that you are relying on attacking the other. \n\nAnd your close is just full of ad-hominems. X2. X3. You just wrote a whole paragraph of ad-hominems. Oh wait is it ad-hominemi? Anyway, that you have to go to such an extent to lash out at others shows enough.", "As long as you've appropriately realized how fucking dumb you were, I'd be happy to end this discussion. You evidently have nothing of usefulness to bring to the table, so, just, uh... Work on yourself, bud. You can be better.", "that's one of the ways, yes", "Well you're in luck because judges are elected in Michigan. And those judges pick 4 of the 9 members of this commission. 3 more members are picked by the state bar.", "Why does she have no idea? This is after a trial and a decision.\n\nShe theoretically has seen all the best evidence the attorneys for each part could muster.", "good news, thanks", "r/UnexpectedTheOffice", "Here is contact information for the Judge's staff in case anyone would like to send a letter in protest: [https://www.oakgov.com/courts/circuit/documents/judges/covid19protocols/covid-19-gorcyca.pdf](https://www.oakgov.com/courts/circuit/documents/judges/covid19protocols/covid-19-gorcyca.pdf)\n\nThat document also contains information for attending her publicly scheduled open courtroom trial hearings, which can be looked up here: https://jsos.oakgov.com/OaklandCounty", "The problem, really, is that even if she is ABSOLUTELY correct... this was an _extremely_ stupid response. Regardless of which parent is at fault, _the children aren't._ Punishing them for one or both parents' actions will, at minimum, cause them to view their dad as the ultimate source of the incarceration. \"If he hadn't gone to the court we wouldn't be here!\"\n\nChildren draw really long bows when it comes to conclusion-jumping, and they will ultimately see the father at fault. If the father IS actually a victim, which we cannot say one way or the other based on a 4.5 minute video of one case, then the judge has harmed him possibly irreparably by having his children associate him with their 17 days in jail. This is a classic case of a judge getting angry and making a terrible thoughtless call without considering who it hurts. She might be a great judge otherwise, but this call was callous and actively damaging to the goals she was ostensibly chasing.", "Blah blah blah blah.\n\nYou made up an imaginary logical fallacy and misused the term \"ad-hominem attack.\"\n\nLet me translate for you what what you said makes no sense: \"fallacy to the person.\" where as \"attack to the person.\" does.\n\n> Is this where I point out your spelling mistakes?\n\nGo ahead. How many do you think you've made?\n\n> I already covered this in the other chain.\n\nRepeating irrelevant points does not make them relevant.\n\n> OH and another ad-hominem. Should I add attack or fallacy? It doesn't matter, the point is that you are relying on attacking the other.\n\nIt being an ad-hominem does not make it untrue. I am commenting on you, because you are a weirdo.\n\nNo reasonable person spends as much time as you talking about circumcisions or the genitals of children. That is abnormal.", "This numbnut Should obviously be off the bench permanently. She id a serious twat.", "Another reason to use old.reddit and third party Reddit apps", ">Child marriage is legal in 47 states\n\n46 actually. [Source](https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/child-marriage-is-currently-legal-in-46-states/)", "Judges have too much power", "Oh I see in your other posts that someone has pointed out your misuse of \"fallacy\". You don't really know what a logical fallacy is, do you?\n\nThat's why you are struggling to differentiate between \"ad-hominem attack\" and a true \"fallacy.\" You haven't realized that a fallacious use of an ad-hominem to discredit an argument is not the same as a \"logical fallacy\" like \"Appeal to Ignorance\" or \"Appeal to Authority\" \n\nIf I said \"your arguments should be dismissed because you lack morals.\" that would be a fallacious use of an ad-hominem. That is not what I did. I'm not saying your arguments should be dismissed because you are a weirdo, you are a weirdo who is obsessed with circumcisions AND your arguments should be dismissed for other reasons which I've already went over.", "Door number 2 was the best choice", "You're an idiot if that's what you took out it.\n\nI don't care that you play games, dude. I encourage you to, actually.\n\nThe only thing about this conversation that makes you a cringey-incel is that you tried to talk shit about people that play games acting like you're above them. That's it.\n\nYou'll fall back on the 'I was just trolling!' shit, but you need to work on yourself.", "So if qualified immunity didn't exist at all it could have a very chilling effect on all manner if things. At the end of the day, police and government officials shouldn't be personally sued for every mistake.\n\nImagine if an officer had to worry that they were personally liable for any injury they caused doing their job. The Fourth Amendment prohibits police from using excessive force when apprehending a suspect or making an arrest. Under §1983, such a violation means that officers who use excessive force are subject to civil suit. \n\nSo let's say an officer is trying to arrest somone in a drunken bar fight and in the heat of the moment they break that person's wrist. Without qualified immunity, that officer can just be sued by the drunk. Even if it's relatively clear that the officer wasn't that excessive and the drunk was resisting arrest. So the argument is that we want officers to be able to act and that the state should carry the burden if the officer is trying to act in good faith.In theory, we want to protect q split second decision, it's easy to make a mistake and officers should have some wiggle room. \n\nI think we've overcorrected for this though. The current doctrine as applied today in courts leads to hairsplitting and it is often impossible for plaintiffs to succeed. Officers and departments don't have the proper incentive to curb excessivly violent behavior.", "Imagine if this was a black judge.", "Dude Hillary literally made up the whole Russian collusion thing to try to defame trump, how is that not one of the most corrupt things ever done in a political race?", "True but we don't know the facts about this case but it's sealed and they're under gag order.", "You can’t say that this is happening HERE just because this kind of thing happens. That’s not how any of this works. You can say it should be reviewed, but you don’t know any more than the other guy, and you’re jumping to conclusions", "Lol, sure thing bud.\n\nNot only are you desperate to feel superior, but you have an awful desperate attention complex. You really are lonely. :(", "Yeah I read that he did and then she did. It's a dumpster fire.", "Interesting if true. I haven't seen that anywhere. But she's an absolute fucking maniac for punishing the kids for being psychologically abused by these people.", "This happened to me when I was young. Was forced to see an abusive mom. The state police would show up to my house when I refused to go", "Why are you being an asshole? Like Jesus Christ.\n\nAlso, if the father later having primary custody means he must be a good guy, then by that logic the mother having primary custody during this video must mean she’s the good guy? No. The fact that one parent or the other has primary custody is irrelevant.\n\nIt also literally doesn’t matter if the children are or aren’t being manipulated by the mother when we’re talking about the *KIDS GOING TO PRISON. The judge in this hearing is the only person who has the power to send these kids to jail. And the only person, clearly, who would be able to influence the judge at that moment is the father. Whether justified or unjustified, correct or incorrect, this judge believes the mother is manipulating the kids, and the dad is a good guy. So she’s clearly not going to listen to the mother.\n\nI don’t know how you’re missing such an obvious point and being such a prick at the same time.\n\nYou’re also literally lying. The judge was never cleared of her behavior. The panel simply decided that public censure was an appropriate punishment. It still stands that in their opinion, her behavior was out of line. And none of the article you keep linking to mentions any bad behavior by the mother except the dad’s claim that she once slapped him and that she’s turned the kids against him. And for some insane reason you give that more weight than the mother’s claims. They both claim the other parent is the bad person. And this judge, who is clearly already fucked up for sending the kids to jail and threatening them with sexual harassment, and compared the son to being in the Manson family?!?!?! is the only one who ever gave the dad custody.", "What made you the way you are?\n\n(I'm installing updates on a server at work, so I got some downtime.)", "Judges get power crazy... All that authority goes to their heads.", "But, but, I know the toilet seat thing is a myth!?", "> Blah blah blah blah.\n\nAnd a scathing show of what you're reduced to. You showed it yourself. I give medical information and medical ethics, and you make noises indicating you're ignoring.\n\n> You made up an imaginary logical fallacy and misused the term \"ad-hominem attack.\"\n\nI was wondering if I should discuss it. An ad-hominem is a fallacy. Yup. So I think I'm entirely correct in referring to it as an ad-hominem fallacy. Yup, it's that simple. But you have to find something to attack so you try to make the most pedantic argument. You could say it's redundant, like saying tuna fish, but I think it's still correct. \n\nAnd what do we get with googling the term \"Ad Hominem Fallacy\"? We get others using that phrase too:\nhttps://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-ad-hominem/\n\nCheck out that comic strip too \"... That's an ad hominem fallacy!\" Oh they don't have the dash and I did.\n\n\nSo I can make my argument that the term Ad Hominem Fallacy is completely and utterly fine.\n\n\n> Go ahead. How many do you think you've made?\n\nNice attempt to turn the tables on your spelling mistakes. But I don't care about yours (or mine) and that's the point. You ignored everything I wrote there.\n\nAnd of course the whole thing about me calling it ad-hominem fallacy, perhaps multiple times but it's one item, is that you're throwing an absolute fit over it but I don't care about yours and just went with what you meant because it was still clear. How many spelling mistakes did you make? I don't care enough to go back and check. And it's such a side point that I don't care.\n\nBTW do you notice how you're trying to siderail this discussion away from the actual topic of circumcision? And on to pedantics and spelling mistakes.\n\n> Repeating irrelevant points does not make them relevant.\n\nYou didn't respond to them in that chain or this one. Don't think it goes unnoticed! New points made and new sources given specifically on the US (Oh wait should we say U.S.? This is the logical step in pedantics), but it is attacked as \"repeat[ed]\" so that makes that factually incorrect.\n\n\n> It being an ad-hominem does not make it untrue\n\nOh there's that part where you rely on attacks instead of discussing the topic. It's easy to see.\n\nAnd you double down on another ad-hominem fallacy. Notice who's discussing the topic, and who relies on ad-hominem fallacies. \n\n> No reasonable person..\n\nAnd another ad-hominem fallacy X2. And a third X3. It's easy to notice that you are not discussing the topic of circumcision, medicine, or medical ethics.", "She and her ilk do not understand human emotions. She is either a psychopath, sociopath, or a narcissist. I'm not qualified to judge which, but it's not rocket science. If you would rather go to jail then have dinner with your father, something is seriously wrong.\n\nAlso, you don't talk to a child like that. Children do not have the same faculties as adults. \n\nAs much as I hate New Hampshire, they have an advocate for the child who the judge listens too. \n\nIronically, in my ex fiance's custody battle, the advocate had recommended that her son stay with his father until it was finally revealed how much he had lied to the advocate.", "This is what's wrong with the judiciary in America right now. They think they are the final word on things. Too much power.", "> And a scathing show of what you're reduced to. \n\nYou do nothing but talk about circumcisions, I'm not concerned with what you think of me.\n\nI'm going to ignore you. I don't want my profile associated with someone who does nothing but talk about baby dicks all day for years.\n\nI hope the adults in your area are smart enough to not leave their kids alone around you.", "You are correct, you did not. It seemed to me though you might implying that his actions could be justified depending on the situation. Sorry if I misunderstood. Those kids went to a kids jail because they didn't want to spend time with their dad. There is a lot fucked up here, and we will never know a lot of it. But would be ok with sending your kids to jail if they won't spend time with you?", "Shit judge", "Is this post a joke that's just going over my head or something?", "> Oh I see in your other posts \n\nOh we can add stalking to your list of, oh should I say it, should I not, fallacies, or tactics. Don't worry your stalking just adds to your list of not discussing the topic and instead relying on attacking the person. Yup, all you're relying on is attacking the other person, which I'm happy to keep calling out! The more you rely on fallacies* the worse for you.\n\nAnd I'm going to call out this next tactic, you are again spamming multiple replies to my one. That's twice now. Yup.\n\n\n>That's why you are struggling to \n\nAlready explained a long time ago: And now you come out swinging at the person again, instead of discussing the topic. So ad-hominem fallacy. This matches the previous trend.\n\nAnd I can refer to my latest: I was wondering if I should discuss it. An ad-hominem is a fallacy. Yup. So I think I'm entirely correct in referring to it as an ad-hominem fallacy. Yup, it's that simple. But you have to find something to attack so you try to make the most pedantic argument. You could say it's redundant, like saying tuna fish, but I think it's still correct.\n\nAnd what do we get with googling the term \"Ad Hominem Fallacy\"? We get others using that phrase too: https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-ad-hominem/\n\nCheck out that comic strip too \"... That's an ad hominem fallacy!\" Oh they don't have the dash and I did.\n\nSo I can make my argument that the term Ad Hominem Fallacy is completely and utterly fine.\n\n\nNot much in the rest, just an ad-hominem fallacy. Let's count them X2.\n\nAnd of course your reasons were addressed, which you did not respond to.", "Fuck. That. Judge.", "Forcing children to do something you want them to do, which is literally making them cry, and calling it contempt of court is, to me, an egregious abuse of power and unethical as fuck. She shouldn’t just be censured, she should have complaints filed with the MI Bar.", "\"Charlie Manson\" lol wtf?", "Because I don't think you're doing it to troll. I think you actually are very much a lonely person looking for attention, not someone looking for a quick laugh. Attacking someone for something you do is generally a pretty desperate move to boost one's own ego, but it only lasts a little bit of time before you're feeling like shit again.\n\nI just think people can do better than that, and sometimes they need someone to level with them.", "This judge is out of line and has completely lost sight of the innocent victims of this contentious divorce. The mother may have turned the kids against their dad or he might be a monster, but she should never punish or admonish children who claim they don’t want to have contact with their father due to his violent behavior. Divorces can be horrible on children, and the judge certainly isn’t there to punish them further. It’s the adults in this situation who need a stern talking to and a lot of pointed questioning.", ">I'm not concerned with what you think of me.\n\nAnd an attempt to turn the tables from your literal actions by attacking the other once again. I'm saying it, ad-hominem fallacy. Because you didn't respond to the\" I give medical information and medical ethics, and you make noises indicating you're ignoring.\"\n\n> I'm going to ignore you. \n\nI call this the cop-out. Are you ok with that term? Do I need to ask? This is the type of pedantics that you want to go to. And for why it's a cop out, you are not actually replying to what's said. Not the medicine, the medical ethics, body autonomy, human rights, even the US parts, or me calling you out on your tactics and fallacies. I particularly like that this cop out comes immediately after I even make my case for calling it an ad-hominem fallacy, which was not responded to.\n\nAnd of course the cop out is followed with ad-hominem fallacies. Oh and an thinly veiled accusation of something bad enough I won't repeat, which of course is ad-hominem fallacy, X2.\n\nThis is what you're left with. I discuss medical ethics and body autonomy, you go on an ad-hominem spree. Yup.\n\nIf you're parting ways, I'll leave you with the more recent part:\n\n[“There is growing consensus among physicians, including those in the United States, that physicians should discourage parents from circumcising their healthy infant boys because nontherapeutic circumcision of underage boys in Western societies has no compelling health benefits, causes postoperative pain, can have serious long-term consequences, constitutes a violation of the United Nations’ Declaration of the Rights of the Child, and conflicts with the Hippocratic oath: primum non nocere: First, do no harm.”](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896)", "How do you contact her?", ">Why does the state get to decide that a truck driver is responsible for their driving but a cop isn't? \n\nBecause the delivery of that cargo is not a possible life or death situation.", "Because how a person behaves in court needs no connection to how a person behaves at home. No reasonable person is going to claim they know what kind of parent someone is after interacting with them in an extremely controlled environment where how you behave increases the likelihood of getting what you want.", "Nah. I legit just think this is your cry for attention.\n\nIf it's not, that's my misunderstanding. I figured I'd be nice, but I guess you really are just a pathetic person. 🤷 Later.", "What a cunt.", "Sigh, Killdozer. The hero we needed.", "but do we know the full story of this? possible the mom did brain wash the kids and had some known issues with the law .", "I think we can upgrade her to Cunt status. She's earned it.", "Are you high? That’s NOT how you protect children from abuse. If a judge feels kids are being corrupted by their parents, there are multiple other legal options to protect them. Not screaming and threatening them in court and then sending them off to an even more traumatic environment.\n\n\nJesus fucking Christ, your opinion is so dumb. If bashed your head in with a rock until you got a concussion, you could probably write some hung more intelligent than this", "It would be disingenuous to say the system is broken, because that would imply that it once wasn’t. This shit is corrupt from the ground up. So many innocent victims, it’s absolutely disgusting. \n\nI don’t know how they sleep at night, fucking psychopaths.", "Mate, I'm 46, and my mother, who died 2 years ago, was still trying to poison me against my dad. She wrote me a letter saying she couldn't understand why I hated her and how it was all my dads fault they got divorced when I was a kid, specifically citing events that I know for a fact didn't happen the way she said they did.\n\nLike, no, I don't hate you, but I'm pissed of at you because you fucking lied to me 3 months ago about you going to see my daughter without me and then rubbed it in my face afterwards, and while you were there, poisoned my daughter against me so that she will barely talk to me.", "What's the Danish position on immigration?", "I have no idea why you're being downvoted", "WTF AMERICA!?!? I can't be on reddit anymore today, fuck me America is a horrible horrible country that no one outside of it likes.", "Children generally do not go to prison unless they commit (and are charged as an adult) for a serious crime. The kids in this case went to a juvenile detention center, not a prison.", "\"Sure I threatened their freedom, but its really their fault for calling me on it!\"", "I could not watch this all the way thru...\n\nTowards the end of my marriage, life was \"rough.\" Rough like a part of me wishes I never got into this marriage in the first place, but the reason I say only part of me is because I would endure it over again 100x, because without it, I wouldn't have my son. The reason I bring this up is because of how having a child changed me. \n\nI never knew how much I could love another human being until I had my child. My son opened up my eyes, mind and heart to realizing that I was true unconditional love is. There is literally nothing in the world that I would ever trade my son for. I'm sure that even those who don't have kids can understand what I mean. \n\nHearing the crying sniffles made my gut feel wrecked and I stopped watching. Children are the definition of innocence. I can't watch anything that shows kids, babies being harmed in any way, even if it's fiction.", "It's the ole \"good person, bad day\" defense.", "Yeah, it’s one thing for a 13-year-old to be rebellious and not want to talk to their dad. When the 9 and 10 year old also want nothing to do with him, there’s a genuine problem.\n\nI’d want to imagine how horrible that judge would feel if the dad ended up being proven to have been abusing them some time down the line, or if one of them killed themselves, but it doesn’t seem like the judge would have any remorse.", "The first two points are essentially the same point, and the third one ties into the other single point you made. Also, what the fuck does birth control have to do with a disciplinary board hearing?\n\nAlso, you being silenced and not being heard because of Trumpsters? You know Biden won the election, right? Stop whining so much. You’re why they call us liberals whiney fucking babies. \n\nClearly someone hurt you, but it’s got nothing to do with this case or Reddit downvoters. Go get therapy like the rest of us and stop pretending like there are strangers out there plotting against YOU in particular.", "Why would he? His kids clearly want nothing to do with him.", "Claims of violence/abuse need to be reviewed by trained professionals. Social workers and psychiatrists, not judges.", "He only wants custody so he doesn’t have to pay child support.", "What a typical cunty Judge", "I can’t speak for this specific situation or anyone else’s, but I would like to share mine.\n \nMy mother did brainwash me against my father. She literally gaslit me into believing he had beat me as a child, although years later as an adult she admitted that it never happened. She told me the reason we moved away from my father, was that my father didn’t care about me and wanted us to leave. I later found out a grueling court case had happened to allow my mother to leave the state. We moved in with her new boyfriend who did beat the living shit out of me (somehow this time I remember it). She tried to tell me it never happened. I wanted to run away, they asked me where I would run to? My father who was a jobless dead beat? I ended up running away, I ended up asking my dad more about his life and my life. Turns out he didn’t work because of a disability, but he did own a business and was doing pretty well. Turns out he was paying a significant amount of child support even after I moved out of my parents (to be homeless, I wasn’t willing to change states to be with my father as I had a girlfriend who ended up being my wife I couldn’t leave). \n \nI still love my mother, and I believe she sacrificed a lot for me, I am still not speaking on this specific case presented in the video, however I also just wanted to make it clear that it is very possible that parents can and will gaslight their children against the other given the right circumstances.\n \nSorry for the long ramble, this video just made me question what would have been different in my specific case (if anything) had a judge stood up for my dad.", "Um he let his kids go to jail because they wouldn’t cooperate, dude is a asshole who doesn’t want to end up paying child support to kids he obviously doesn’t love. Otherwise he would have spoken up before his kids were locked up.", "\"My dad is violent\"\n\"No he loves you and he's a good man, you are in contempt\"\n\nWhat a fuckin cunt", "I'm a father of 2, and still in a loving marriage with my wife so this might not be the best take since I have never been in this situation, but, if I was in the position where I had divorced from my wife and my kids did not want to speak to me, there is no chance in hell I would stand by while a judge sent my kids to fucking jail for it! Hell, even just the fact that he took the kids to court because they wouldn't speak to him says more about him than anything else could.", "The fact that the dad was totally okay with his kids being sent to a place where the judge spoke in graphic detail of horrors and abuse in a juvenile detention system after the oldest kid stated the dad was violent, after the kids were crying about being forced to have “a healthy relationship” with him - tells me everything you need to know about what a shitty father the dad is.\n\nHolding children in contempt of court is just fucking sadistic. I hope those kids all grow up to terminating their long-term relationships with any of the parents who abused them. I further hope this judge ends up finding herself disbarred for unethical behavior.", "Which is no better, clearly you don’t know shit about juvenile detention facilities in the usa…", "If you think I'm a republican or a conservative then you're very mistaken. Sorry that you see the world through that lens.", "Right?! Any reasonable dad who loves his children would object to sending them to juvie just because they didn't speak to him.", "And instead this judge likely reenforced the hate they already had for their father.", ">\tbut the right doesn’t control the institutions of culture \n\nYou may want to check what the largest cable news network is (Fox News) And who owns the overwhelming majority of free to air stations (Sinclair; heavily conservative). \n\nSo where they get their news and political views from are heavily conservative. While conservative views are fading from entertainment, they’re still very strong where it actually matters when it comes to elections.", "> sending them off to an even more traumatic environment.\n\nmind you, she knew what she was doing. She mentioned it explicitly - \"do you want people to watch you pee?\" she knew exactly what she was threatening them with, The whole idea was \"ill traumatize you unless you obey\"", "I'd bet my left nut the judge was right and the kids were brainwashed by the mother. When my parents got divorced, I remember being around the oldest here's age, 12 years old. My father would come to get us every Wednesday and Weekend for visitation. At one point I would scream at him how I hated him and didn't want to see him. I would refuse to go some days.\n\nMore than 20 years later, I am deeply pained by these memories. My father never abused me, never did anything wrong, never gave me anything but unconditional love and support throughout the years. Why then did I say these things to him and refuse to go with him? Because I was a dumb fucking kid with an underdeveloped brain, a brain which was manipulated and distorted by my mother and stepfather.\n\nNot more than 5 years later I would move out of my mom's house and move in with my dad. He has stood by me ever since and been nothing but an outstanding, terrific father who I could not be more proud of.\n\nTLDR - this judge was very likely right, and I wish more judges would side with provably good fathers instead of shitting on them by default like they have for decades", "Un no other wise they wouldn’t have tried to disbar her….", "Maybe the kids should have been sent to a foster home or summer camp or whatever for their own protection(mom may be brainwashing, we don't know if the dad is safe or is actually violent).\n\nBut in any case, that would be done for the children's protection via a court order, not to the children via contempt of court.", "She could have easily ordered the children go to therapy either with or without their father to try and solve these issues. The way she is acting this feels personal", "I never said that the 13-year-old was “stupid”. I was simply pointing out that in the court of law a minor does not have the legal right to decide which parent to live with or which parent they’ll associate with.\n\nLike you, I’d also be concerned if a child came to me and said they didn’t want to be with one (or both) of their parents due to them being violent. If the claims were serious I’d get CPS involved for an investigation.", "What an utter bitch. The kids are sitting there telling her why they would rather spend 16 DAYS in juvy rather than with their father. And throwing the mom under the bus? Classy.", "Lemme get this straight. The judge sent the kids to jail for giving their dad the silent treatment. Am I dreaming?", "How on earth is that person even a judge? They act like an entitled Karen refusing to wear a mask while they open carry in ratty, stained sweatpants at a walmart. I'm not from the US, FWIW. Absolutely blown away that someone so unprofessional and unreasonable could EVER be a judge.", "Dad won custody", "You can see the same for decades. Obama and Clinton simply didn’t have as many criminals as bush jr, Reagan, and obviously trump. Bush jr had 16 criminal convictions in his administration, Reagan had 16, and bush sr had 1. Obama had zero and Clinton had 1. \n\nNot even counting Nixon here which was a complete dumpster fire.", "The user I replied to literally said: “She sent children to prison”. Prison is a whole lot different than a juvenile detention center.", "The facilities where they hold “abandoned” kids are not always safe, welcoming environments. Definitely not where a child who has done nothing wrong and has a safe home to return to should go. Even when it is absolutely necessary it can be very traumatic for the kids involved.\n\nWhether the kids were or were not brainwashed isn’t a reason to punish them. Order them to counseling but the harsh treatment the judge used with kids is totally insane.", "The father also had no problem with his kids going to children's home for not seeing him. One kid was even old enough to have legal say in where he goes. I'd bet the kids are telling the truth, and that's why they were so resolute. They were in there 16 days before ordered to be released.", "> we don't know if the dad is safe or is actually violent\n\nFWIW, I don't think that's a reasonable statement. At the point in time of the trial, the kids and parents had already undergone court ordered psychiatric evaluations, an evaluation that concluded the father should share custody.\n\nThe video linked in the post above says there is no evidence the father is violent. Says the claims by the mother are unsubstantiated.\n\nI can see sending the kids to a foster home or summer camp...", "Man the more I read about this whole thing the more insane it sounds", "Why does everyone have opinions without knowing facts first", "If there is evidence for that, I'd love to see it. The reality is that judges who preside over family courts are often lawyers who've been counsel in family circumstances. We're expected to think this judge has just been wrong and has no motivation that isn't malicious. the reality is laughably opposite if you're ever expose to the indentured service industry of family court.\n\nSome people have a conscience. This judge thankfully seems to have had one. If you seem to be privy to new facts, I'd love to hear them.", "Sure ...my point is, that there is no circumstance where the children are anything but victims. Maybe the end result is the same (kids sent to foster care/juvenile detention), but the reasoning behind it is important. The judge sent them as a punishment, not as an act to attempt to protect them.", "Read the links. Multiple psychiatric assessments determined the kids were mentally abused by mum. Dad did nothing wrong.", "Well umm the children didn’t want to spend time with him with good reason is all you have to imagine. If anything it proves she’s in the wrong, not that the father would have the decency to argue.", ">https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2017/07/31/oakland-countys-most-toxic-divorce-ever/508429001/\n\nI'm wondering about the intentions of OP:\n\n> Two GoFundMe pages were set up to raise money for legal fees for Eibschitz-Tsimhoni, who would later acknowledge paying a public relations firm $10,000 to represent her side of the issue through social media and other means.", "For real lol, only a complete moron displays their bad side when they know they're being watched.", "All cities need to be broadcast all the time. This is not surprising at all. Judges commit a ton of infractions but are never held to account for their behaviour.", "This was the judge in my parents divorce, she threatened to throw me in jail when I was 16 or 17.", "I don't know if you are experiencing the same issue as I am, but I cannot paste anything without the editor f\\\\king up. The only workaround is to switch to Markdown Mode first, then paste.", "Completely power tripping asshole. Imagine knowing her in real life.", "Are you using an app?", "Reddit is Fun and Apollo are the best apps for Reddit. I haven’t seen ads on Reddit in 7 years or so. Both apps have dark theme and their own media players.", "The difference is the people in the cells are minors….", "Doesn't matter. The judge's behavior was way out of line, and she bullied those kids. Also said the judge submitted written misrepresentation. And that's not really what those links say.", "Does she think this is Judge Judy or something?", "Thats why humans shouldnt even be playing with Judging.. or have the capability to Judge as a type of employment..\n\nA human can misjudge and more so likely to.. \nLet a lone a judge that dont get 🍆 that much", "No, laptop", "Read up on this case. It’s nuts. The mother is clearly guilty of parental alienation. Unforutionately, there aren’t laws to adequately prosecute her for the crime.\n\nIf you re-watch it, do so with the knowledge that the mother has psychopathically manipulated the children to cut off contact with their father. It’s heartbreaking.", "I don't totally disagree with that, but man, making someone pay for something that you don't even get to see is pretty fucked up. Especially if it's the mom that poisoned them in the first place. Maybe in situations where the state deems it in the best interest of the child to not see the father through no fault of his own, the state should pay to raise the kid.", "Bro she’s a total karen", "The children were placed in Mandy's Place, a 44-bed building designed for abused or neglected children. Unlike other buildings housing children who have criminal histories or facing hearings for threatening behavior, Mandy's Place is not locked down and the children there are not surrounded by high fences. Kids either are assigned private bedrooms, or a bed in a dorm-like room with three or four other children. There are no cells or locked doors.\n\nWhile the judge, in sending the children there, had likened it to a \"jail\", it is more of a large home, with a kitchen, dining areas and fully enclosed bathroom stalls.", "Well they make decisions based on less than 10 grand much of the time so if you had enough fuck you money you could personally fund them to sway their votes on all kinds of shit.", "Bitch deserves a blood eagle.", "They were sent to children’s village a juvenile detention facility, fuck the judge said so in the damn video! Get a damn clue! https://www.oakgov.com/village/Pages/program-services.aspx, \nSecure detention houses juveniles awaiting court proceedings and further placement decisions. Youth held in secure detention receive education, recreation, health assessments, counseling and other intervention services (i.e. substance abuse counseling) with the intent of maintaining resident well-being during his or her stay in custody.\n\nAll youth entering detention are given the Massachusetts Youth Screening Instrument 2 (MAYSI-2). The MASYI-2 is a brief screening instrument designed to identify potential mental health needs. The MAYSI-2 provides information that alerts staff to the potential for the following mental and behavioral problems: Alcohol/Drug Use, Angry-Irritable, Depressed-Anxious, Somatic Complaints, Suicide Ideation, Thought Disturbance and Traumatic Experiences. Youth that elicit a high score in any of the above areas are referred to a Clinician for immediate follow-up.\n\nOakland County Children's Village Secure Detention is licensed to accept children 10-17 years old.", "wtf does any of this have to do with any disciplinary action for the watchdog org, or the judge threatening some kids in open court though? How does politics even plug in? Why can't it just be plain incompetence? That's why this whole aside is so fucking stupid.", "I did my research on this particular issue so I didn’t make assumptions, unlike you. Copying and pasting information from a website for a detention center the kids did not end up going to proves absolutely nothing.\n\nThe daughter was 9 and therefore she wouldn’t have even been eligible to attend the facility you mentioned.\n\nSource: [Detroit Free Press](https://amp.freep.com/amp/29932113).", "Were you there?", "Regardless of the judge, what terrible parents to put their kids through this", "Maybe I missed something or it just wasn’t clear from the short clip but was the kid saying that the father was violent to him? That wouldn’t be hearsay, that is his testimony. If she didn’t believe, I would expect her reasons to clearly lay out the basis for that disbelief (I haven’t read anything related to this case).", "This brand of corruption in the vein of \"father has complete and total dominion over their children\" is obviously conservative-republican oriented.", "There’s a reason she ignored them. It wasn’t the best response but she wasn’t doing it maliciously", "If a judge told me I have to talk to my dad She wouldn’t know shit", "In my opinion for putting kids in juvenile detention for 13 days she should spend 13 days in gen-pop.", "Listen, I understand you think this is the high minded rational disposition from what would have been the judge's position. And, honestly, I find that adorable about lawyers -- they always think another lawyer will help.\n\nLawyers are quintessential hammers to nails, and if we could rely on the legislature to act in a timely manner, that would be another thing.\n\nWe live in a time where even democracy seems to be outsourced.\n\nYour answer is fatalistic, and it deserves some admonition. Just because a parent has alienated her children doesn't mean a judge's actions are to be admonished. It only shows that good intentions in our current system can be vilified.\n\nAnd they are. This is a fact. An observation. And you would do well to note it.\n\nYou can pretend the law governs us, but often our better nature takes hold, and we fight against evil when our laws suggest we should allow it.\n\nAt that point you can choose between your soul and your social security number.", "If you’re talking about Kids for Cash, I had some friends get caught up in that, too. 570 represent", "Funny how the mom actually lost custody as it was given to the father. Yep Let’s blame the man after the woman kidnaps the kids and alienates the kids from their father.", "I grew up in oakland county, and just wanted to clarify, children's village is juvie and where they hold kids who have been abandoned, and has a \"mental health\" ward as well. I turned off the video when she threatened them with contempt, but they would have been sent to the \"secure lock up\" part for that.\n\nMore info https://www.oakgov.com/village/Pages/program-services.aspx", "The bad thing about this is the Judge was right, if the father has not been violent, or abuses the children and there is no proof, it is the mother who has brain washed them, and this goes on daily to thousands of kids and the lose out on time with their father they will miss. I mean I was not in a situation like this exactly, but I only knew my Dad for 5 years of my life and for the net 50 years I asked and asked, what happened, I never knew if they were married, or what happened, nothing, I even found my real fathers sister and she will not tell me anything, and it took for my mom to pass away to finally see and find pictures of my Dad and a marriage license that shows at least she was married.", "Got something that’s not paywalled?", "Sending the kids away had to have been so traumatic for them. 17 days of pure terror, having your whole life as you know it taken from you, not knowing when or if things will be normal again. This is insane and should not even be possible for any judge to do.", "Wow what a garbage piece of shit. Who does she think she is, just appalling.", "There were no substantiated evidence he was violent, it was all the mother tell the kids he was.\n\nBut ya let’s blame the father after the mother ran away with the kids first", "Not around Michigan but I was aware they were in the same facility according to the sources. She actually didn't send them to the juvie part though according to sources but the other part. Despite threatening them with that. Afterwards she sent them to the jewish summer camp that their parents paid for and then gave custody to the father while not allowing the mother visitation. Then the mother got like 60% custody after a few months of that.\n\nEdit: [https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/05/30/lawyers-back-oakland-judge-herings/85159886/](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/05/30/lawyers-back-oakland-judge-herings/85159886/) I they say it was \"Maya's place\" which I imagine is some sort of equivalent to the Mandy's place listed in your link.", "You should read more about the case instead of just accusing the farther", "Supreme Court said public rebuke was enough! Where do I sign up for that kind of biased treatment your honors?", "Obviously. She appealed it because she knew exactly who would be hearing her case, and she got her wanted outcome. \n\nIt's always been a farce. The legal system doesn't work, and the only court that matters is the court of public opinion.", "Oh don't worry, we're long past the time when anybody actually had this case as a pet issue. It got to the point that both parents were representing themselves because they ate through every divorce lawyer around.", "[She was suspended without pay for 30 days](https://www.courthousenews.com/director-says-he-was-fired-for-cracking-down-on-judge/)", "This is your brain on \"men's rights activism\".", "You seem to think I have a position I don't and want someone to yell at over the internet, so go for it.", "That's just a word game: \nThey were manhandled and locked up - and if they resisted (as everyone would be tempted to, when some sicko wants to lock him/her up for purposes unknown) they would be subject to violence, up to, and including death. \nThat judge was a despicable pervert - if she wanted to give them a message, she could have used words; threatening the life, honour and freedom of children is sick.", "Juvie, the place the judge herself said was disgusting, she put 2 innocent kids away. She’s an egotistical bitch. A lot of damage happens in those facilities. Things which have lifelong implications. Hope the kids are ok.", "I actually interned for a judge who was also challenged by the same commissioner, I think they eventually found that commissioner overzealous and was fired from the", "I’m surprised the men’s group supported the judge’s decision. It wasn’t in the fathers favor if he lives his children. What parent who loves their kids would want them to spend a day in such a place?", "It wasn't a threat. The judge did send the kids to juvie.", "I read about all that... And still don't sit right with me to essentially send a kid to juvie(or whatever it is) until 18 (which is essentially all their life as a minor growing up) unless they agree to meet and talk with a parent.\n\nThere's many ways to skin a cat, and I don't personally have children yet, but this doesn't seem to be the way to handle children.", "I was in trouble for running away from home at age 13. My parents had me arrested, I became a ward of the courts as an incorrigible child. I was on probation for a few years, I was told before court that as a child I had no rights. I guess that’s still the case fir kids.", "Also this https://casetext.com/case/fischer-v-mich-judicial-tenure-commn", "Sir, or madam, what it seems you fail to understand is that the corrupting power in both Democrats and Republicans is the economic theory of neoliberalism. It is generally safe to call out neoliberalism as corruption", "We live in a country of laws. Children are minors and are subjected to different standards of individual freedoms than legal adults. If the kids were 18+ I’d have a different outlook on this issue, but they weren’t.\n\nThe purpose for sending the kids to juvenile detention wasn’t unknown to the children. The judge had ordered the children to go to lunch with their dad during his allotted custody time and to talk and have a relationship with him. They chose (for whatever reason) to defy those orders putting them in direct contempt of the court. In previous family court hearings I’m sure this judge told the children these orders in words and explained what they were required to do. Their defiance of her orders is what escalated the situation.\n\nUnlike the judge, I personally would have required the children to attend therapy and counseling with their dad instead of sending the kids to child rehab house. The way she went about it wasn’t right.", "I thought a “seated judge” could commit no crime… They can be removed in some cases or their verdicts deemed worthless by peers and appeals, but I believe the analogy one professor used to me is a judge could shoot someone in their court room and the best that could happen was job loss but maybe I remember that wrong. Thought it had something to do with their ability to sentence people", "Jesus Christ it's the Karen of judges!", "> The judge sent them as a punishment, not as an act to attempt to protect them.\n\nI agree, the sad part is that the judge was trying NOT to send them anywhere, the history of the case till then shows she was clearly trying to get them to reconcile enough with their father so she wouldn't have to send them anywhere", "Kids to jail was absolutely fucked up. My implication was how much of a shit bag both of these parents are, as is the judge. This is adults acting like children at the childrens expense. Everyone is losing here. These kids will grow up with serious mental issues that I hope they can get resolution to.", "Exactly, I made the same comment about the father somewhere in this thread. What parent wants their child to spend a day in this place she described as horrific. She sentenced them for 5 years, more for the younger child. If this case didn’t get so much attention they would still be there. The judicial system is F’d up beyond belief.", "When she got a suspension I knew it was coming back. No way a midwestern state court is gonna give a real punishment for being a horrible judge, if they did that there'd be no one left to hear cases.", "She isn't wrong though, while the punishment is to much, she should of ordered some sort of consoling to figure out WHY the kids real reason was for not talking to dad.\n\nUnless the dad had some prior issues with kids, if no evidence of it, and by all accounts a ok guy, the ex wife sounds like she is talking bad about him to the kids to get favor. It happens quite a bit.\n\nRemember case a few years ago when kids told judge father beat them, and dad turned out to be the good guy and it was the mom who told the kids to say that or she would some something..i forget what it was, like kill family dog or something.", "Who is also legally blind", ">A judge will not do this without some crazy sht preceding it. \n\nlmao what kind of naive horseshit is this? It's so quaint that you have such little life experience that you could think this, but for the love of god, stop talking and start listening. There are innumerable instances of American judges being completely and absolutely fucked and giving horrible judgements with no provocation or good reasoning.", "If you think that judges are automatically worthy of deferral because of their position, you're hopelessly naive and gullible.", "Because if she has to tell the kids that because mother prob didn't tell them that herself. She is hinting that they are brainwashed by the mom.\n\nShe has no reason to suspect he isn't. If he wasn't he would even be wanting custody at all.", "Neither parent puts up a protest at the kids being threatened with Juvy time. Sad. \n\nWhy is this judge so vested in the father’s interests? Something seems fishy. \n\n“I can’t believe when faced with those two outcomes they’d choose door number 2,” \n\nthese kids would rather spend their time in Juvy than be around their dad. And you can’t understand that?? Dumb bitch", "Yeah, which is an example of why family court in the US is completely fucked and not something you should simp for.", "Burn in hell all of them ..this is a shit ass judge", "Idk about you, but it seems like most people here agrees with you being the idiot. Your responses aren’t even nuanced or detailed with any kind of critical thinking. \n\nSpoken like a true idiot", "Who sends three Jewish kids to a camp? And she had the nerve of calling one of them Charles Manson.", "Stop getting your news from Facebook", "Counterpoint; Trump is a fucking retard", "They are protecting their own for when it comes for them", "Good.", "I'm glad you truly believe that social workers and police are good judges of how abusive parents are.. I'm sure all the children who have been murdered while their parents were being investigated by social services will be very relieved to know that. \n\nJust. Stop. You're seriously making yourself look so much worse.\n\nGo on fucking Netflix and watch the Trials of Gabriel Fernandez (spoiler alert: You fucking won't). Then come back and tell me you really think the system works.", "We can tell.", "No the children still have autonomy rights here, unfortunately contempt of court is subjective and can be levied at the courts discretion. Judge jury and executioner for petty rulings.", "Please don't reproduce", "> What's next?\n\nRepublicans want the dream version of the 1950s domestic slave; where all women are obedient and subservient to men, and don't complain about anything at all, including being raped.\n\nI've been through their online forums and Facebook groups, it's even worse than you could ever imagine.", "Dude your last sentence is all you need. This guy has serious issues, and based on what he's typed alone, no one important will ever take him seriously. Walk away.", "If that same Killdozer was running down a street tomorrow, law enforcement would be equally boned. Their MRAPs aren't heavy enough to stand in the way. They don't have anti-armor capabilities which is exactly what you'd need for something with composite armor. They briefly considered having an ANG Apache launch a Hellfire missile at it but decided against it. Even after the dozer was stopped, it took them HOURS to cut into it to get Heymeyer's body out.", "Please name a time you were silenced. Like actually silenced.", "there are no traditional karen vibes here. you're just calling her that because shes a middle aged woman that you have reason not to like. you wouldnt call her that if she was in any other demographic. you shouldnt do that kind of thing, even if you have good reason to hate the person.", "holding a kid in contempt and sending them to a juvenile detention centre seems pretty harsh. the \"defiance\" shown by the kid in this video doesn't come across as a rebellious 13 year old trying to muddy the gears of the legal system. \n\nwe don't have enough information based off this video to say whether or not the ruling on this judge was fair. given the way it was presented here, it's comes off as a crazy call.", "I hate people so much", "Imagine being so fucking thick skulled to not realize why a kid would rather go to jail then to hang out with an abusive parent. Sometimes I wish I could just punch some people in the face.", "If she cannot persuade children, but have to resort to physical force, she is not mentally adult and should not hold any public office...", "Don’t take it personally. It’s Reddit. Most folks that share your views don’t have the stomach to participate on these subs and slowly disappear into safer spaces. \n\nI’m pretty apolitical, but have been taking a hard swing right over the past few years. \n\nThe politicizing of the Pandemic did it for me. Biden/Harris saying they wouldn’t take the vaccine if it was approved by Trump administration. Indicating they had a plan and would get it under control. Turning down a testing strategy months ago that would have saved lives these holidays. Ultimately conceding it is a states issue as the virus peaks. So yeah… I guess if people want to say things like “false equivalency” while ignoring substantial issues like a party that politicizes a national emergency, turns half the country away from public health tools because of ‘us vs them’ mentality, and then be like lol jk nothing we can do. \n\nCorruption is in the eye of the beholder. In my opinion, the behavior of the democrats has been pathetic and abhorrent. I just wish I didn’t find the republicans social platform so ridiculously offensive and stupid. But yeah, I will not vote for a democrat during the next cycle, period. They’ve forgotten their real base.", "It is a matter of opinion. And the fact that you don’t believe that is how we know our foreign adversaries are successfully undermining western democracies. \n\n\nYou actually can’t even take a step back and understand why some may disagree with your views. It’s mindsets like yours that have me fully committed to the other side for the next cycle or two. You’re assuredness of your perspective is actually terrifying.", "You are either a foreign bot farm or literally the perfect example of how our foreign adversaries are undermining American democracies. \n\nIn democracies when 40-50% of a country disagrees with your views, we don’t call our fellow citizens stupid, we engage in discourse and learn from each other. \n\nI’m objectively not stupid. I think how anchored your are is terrifying. Both parties are terrible right now. There is no false equivalency. That’s just a fact. Stop trying to rationalize anything beyond that.", "That she is still a judge makes a mockery of justice. The kids should sue.", "This seems insane. Why are the kids even at a divorce trial? I get the “brainwashing” argument as it ruins so many lives, but this judge is doing all the wrong things", "“It’s deplorable to vote for anyone I disagree with” -Democrats 2021\n\nHear that, that’s our foreign adversaries knowing they are winning. Congrats for helping out!\n\nhttps://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2019/07/31/combating-disinformation-and-foreign-interference-in-democracies-lessons-from-europe/amp/", "Do you have no concerns for the viability of democracy with statements like that?", "It's been pretty entertaining overall. And running the gambit. I believe I actually triggered some folks for suggesting antisemitism is a thing. So I'm even pissing off real Nazis by equivocating.", "nice", "Fuck judges like this. They aren’t legally obligated to speak with a violent man. She needs to be fired.", "Very true. Still, standing by and watching kids getting sent to juvenile detention when he should have intervened is a very low act. It looked like one shitty act by that scumbag judge", "What a fuckin demon, dude.", "Unfortunately, it’s likely in part because they see it working in America.", "She never thought for a minute that the kids would choose juvie over their dad. Investigate that father. Now.", "She should get a bullet in the head", "9-year-old refuses to talk to father - 17 days children's jail (could have been years if not for media)\n\nBillionaire Dupont heir Robert Richards pleads guilty to raping 3-year-old daughter - 0 days jail because he \"would not fare well in prison\" according to the judge.\n\nAmerican \"Justice\"", "I'm sure they send these cases TO THE SUPREME COURT because they have no merit. Fucking clowns.\n\nYour response?\n\nBullshit.\n\nEveryone else's responses?\n\nBullshit.\n\nWhen I see a judge treat a kid like shit, I don't need a bunch of randos to blab at me to know what I saw. \n\n\"Go to juvie or love your father\"\n\nYeah, shut up all your fucking idiots.", "Abusive Dad's ITT coming out in droves to defend the judge putting kids in juvie.\n\nWeird thing to celebrate, but if you're going to be a piece of shit, go big I guess.\n\n\"The kids were brainwashed!\"\n\nPAY YOUR CHILD SUPPORT, DEADBEATS!!!", "Say why you're downvoting, brigading shitbirds", "Good for you, no one asked.", "The system is flawed because the type of person who seeks authority is the type of person who is most likely to abuse that authority. Judges and Police Officers usually have very specific values that serve themselves, rather than the entirety of the community. When we see someone use this authority to enforce their own values on people like this it shows how truely corrupt our system is, and how freely biases of those in positions of authority can affect the process.", "So obviously she’s the abuser.", "Her husband, a former DA, isn't very different either: \n\n> Last year, David Gorcyca was found personally liable for a $1 million judgment against the parents of an autistic girl. He had tried to prosecute her father for sexual assault.\n\n> Gorcyca had absolute immunity from any liability for bringing the charges. He lost the lawsuit because he continued to defame the family after he had left office. Ultimately, Oakland County paid out more than $6 million to settle the lawsuit.\n\n> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/07/09/michigan-judge-bullies-children-in-open-court-for-refusing-to-see-their-dad/", "“I refuse to be silenced“. \n\nWhoopdie-doo. Who cares?\n\nYou’re ignorant.", "I couldn't answer that question TBH. The timing is right but no evidence. She joined this weird Japanese cult(she's Australian) so I think it's a combination of the two. Whatever happened after twenty plus years I don't really know but she went from love to hate practically overnight and I mean visceral nasty evil hate.", "Wtf America . Not that this doesn't everywhere, just ugh.", "Ok this case gets weirder and weirder the more you dig", "What a Cunt.", "It very much is, since this is a car crash scenario.", "I understand how qualified immunity works. My question is why do you* believe that the drunk person in your scenario should be prohibited from using the legal system to seek damages against the cop in that situation? Because I very strongly believe they do have that right and that it's fundamentally wrong for the state to restrict it.", "Lmao. I looked at your comment history, either you're his alt account, or you're his butt buddy. Going to go with an alt, since you're that desperate. Every post you've ever made is in the same comment chain /u/WhiskRy's in.\n\nPathetically sad. Get some friends. 😂", "Agreed, I have to question what was going on in the background of this case for the judge to have such a differing opinion on the father as the children did, and if there isn't some credence to her comment about brainwashing. \n\nHowever that doesn't justify what she did in the slightest, she crossed a line and deserves the consequences.", "I mean, yeah. US's legal system is incredibly corrupt, depending on where you are. We can pretend it's not incredibly easy to manipulate if you have connections/money, but let's not pretend it's for \"justice\" lol.", "Yep. Corporations are realizing they can just \"lobby\" for what they want, as well as push certain candidates forward, all the while being the same companies (like news media) that directly influence people's votes.\n\nReality is, doesn't matter too much who you vote for, because in the end businesses are the one bribing the politicians, not me, not you. \n\nCREAM.", ">as if anyone knew her gender when she made that moronic comment.\n\nThe classic \"I can't handle this discussion\", so then they jump to making it all about how \"you're keeping me down\", despite no one caring what sex they are.", "That's the best part...\n\nNo one gives a fuck if you're a man or women\n\nMake your point, if you have to drag your victimized gender into it, you should work on your argument or research instead.\n\nIt's just a way for weak people to avoid repercussions. Instead of admitting what they said was silly, they'll just double down on how \"They're brigading me because i'm a woman\", when in reality they just said some incredibly dumb stuff, that's all.\n\nIt's just basic manipulation. Direct attention and blame towards someone else, and hide behind being a woman.", "> american who has nothing to do with politics and is sick of reddit being full of american politics but seriously can we go back before trump\n\nYeah, but are you a woman?", "Imagine needing attention so bad you gotta create your own suffering online lol.", "Omg, imagine if your internet went out. You'd literally cease to exist!!!!", "That's fine. You feeling sorry is mostly meaningless lol. Still doesn't make you not wrong as fuck lol.", ">I'm a hard left liberal\n\nYeah, but are you a woman?", "Not to mention getting downvoted on reddit and calling it being \"silenced\" is an insult to everyone on this planet who actually is silenced, or kept from speaking up. But that's okay, I'm sure their suffering is equal to OP's.", "Absolutely love your imaginary scenarios that happen ever so often. Why the fuck would I judge how society works from a Netflix special you gullible fool lmfao? Ah yes, you have been so wisened to the world by watching an hour special rofl.\n\nIt doesn't matter what you think about how society should work. It IS how it works. You can get your head out of the shit clouds instead and not be a ingrate with their head so far up their own asshole thinking it's the utopia all of would prefer instead of the shit and vile ridden place it is lol.", "Almost like some people do that solely for the attention, and the actual issue being discussed isn't important to them at all, except as an avenue to get positive attention.", "Yeah, but now they can't be silenced, unless they get banned. Or their internet goes out. Or their phone/laptop breaks. Or they have something else going on.", "Maybe I'll start doing that. Just start random discussions with \"as a woman, despite it having nothing to do with the actual discussion, nor me not being a woman.\n\nMan, imagine needing attention so bad you gotta create your own suffering then crutch on a victim complex you created.", "Woow shocking.", "Pretty sure you just made a couple hundred people laugh at your expense, thanks for that. Keep doing you and posting this nonsense, it's entertaining as hell.", "Oh jeez. I should've known you were just a fuckin troll. \n\nFuck off.", "Not unless they're both being controlled by the same companies/people. Other than that though...", "Agreed. Better to just leave it alone.", "Kind of a distinction without a difference in this context.", "Dawg. just ignore it. You made your point, proved it wrong, and won. Nothing you say can help when someone's arguing completely in bad faith and trying to insult you.", "It's an elective, it's not medically needed nor relevant. \n\nHere little buddy, let me show you.\n\nhttps://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions-and-treatments/treatments/circumcision\n\n>In the United States, newborn circumcision is an elective procedure.", "React to the judge threatening to throw her kids in juvie out of fucking nowhere for literally no crimes?", "Did I say they did?", "Did I at any point in that rather short sentence state that laws are universal? That they are _exactly_ the same across cultures?\n\nBut maybe we should start with a refresher course on the meaning of \"tend\" - and also \"arbitrary\".", "Pretty impossible the discuss shit like this with people that can't tell when a comment is about a general concept and not the specific case at hand.", "> That's not the case, though.\n\nLets sit down and think about why I started my sentence with \"Lets say\"\n\nMaybe it was in order to exemplify why the court - in general - should have some leeway to tell kids what to do, which the comment I responded to seemed to suggest that it shouldn't.\n\nThe how of if being a different discussion.\n\n> Lets say that the parents were not divorced and the kids refused to talk to them. Is there a scenario where a judge would even get involved?\n\nNo. But if they ran away from home? Sure.", "It is a false equivalency because it is not exactly the same... \n\nGod forbid you entertained the rather simple thought experiment. We all try to avoid pain, so I get it.\n\nQuestion was - simplified for you: Should the court be able to tell kids what to do, when they don't want to live with their parent(s)?\n\nImagining the non divorce situation was to help you answer that question _in general_.\n\nWhether there are other circumstances that should influence what the court orders them to do in the specific situation is irrelevant to that question.", "> Maybe it was in order to exemplify why the court - in general - should have some leeway to tell kids what to do, which the comment I responded to seemed to suggest that it shouldn't.\n\nThe court should have absolutely no leeway to send people who haven't committed a crime to prison.\n\n> No. But if they ran away from home? Sure.\n\nThey didn't, though. They showed up for lunch with their father and refused to talk to him. That's what happened, and that's what they were thrown in jail for.", "Hey little buddy can you quote where I said it was medically needed? \n\nSomething being an elective procedure does not mean it is not a medical procedure. \n\n> Elective surgeries can include cosmetic procedures like removing a mole or a wart. But they can also include more serious conditions like hernia surgery; removing kidney stones or an appendix; and hip replacements.", "\"bOTh sIIDES\" blather from fence sitters...", "Judges in PA can order in a custody agreement no parental alienation but it takes a lot to prove it. Which is good since it is such a difficult subject to deal with.\n\nAnd there are definitely parents out there that try to cause it, and it definitely can work.", "It’s a false equivalency because it is so unrelated to the actual situation at hand that it is laughable. A child running away from home is extremely different than a child telling a court in a divorce hearing they are afraid of the person they are attempting to mandate them to go live with. An explicit purpose of a divorce court is to decide custody and who will be the best for a child. Not force them to live with someone they don’t want to. Making a child go back to their parents is so different than explicitly putting the children with the parent they are fearful of. A thirteen year old child is absolutely supposed to be listened to, at least to a degree, in whether they believe they should live with one parent over the other. It’s hilarious how you can’t see how unrelated they are. What is the purpose of “answering this question in general” when that general situation is completely unrelated to the actual situation being discussed?\n\nStop with the simplified shit. We’re not children. We can read. Your comparison was dumb and you got called out on it. “Simplifying” it doesn’t make it less irrelevant. A divorce court is not a “general” situation. It’s a very specific situation. Also, you is both singular and plural. You don’t have to do the (s).\n\nIf the circumstances didn’t matter, then why in your “thought experiment” did you literally state “for no apparent reason”? It sounds like you don’t even remember what your actual example was. It’s almost like your example was very divorced from the actual situation at hand.\n\nNobody asked the question “do courts have authority over children.” Obviously they do. Obviously they do have the authority to remove a child from a home or to keep them with their family. It was “should courts do this thing”, which was demand a child have a relationship with someone they clearly did not want to, in a scenario where the judge is supposed to be looking out for their best interest. Your example is completely irrelevant to the actual question at hand.", "Quick correction - the children were not (initially at least) sent to a foster care facility, rather a juvenile detention center, for 17 days. \n\nThis is where Gorcyca lost all credibility in my eyes and acted with malice intent, expressing no regard for the welfare of the children.", "Oh goodness I don't have the time either. Heck who would even believe me.", "I have already said the judge overreached in all of my responses. I don't know if you're be willfully ignorant, or have difficulty reading.\n\nBut that also doesn't make it acceptable to lie in a courtroom and accuse someone of a federal crime because you don't want to go to lunch. That's ACTUALLY psychopathic.\n\nLike are we just giving all 13 year olds a free pass to say whatever they like? Can a 13 year old lie to police and tell someone you raped them without consequence? That you hurt them?\n\nWhy are you pretending that this is acceptable behavior that shouldn't face any form of consequence ?", "I think \"punishment\" aspect here was more of a bluff on the judge's part, and maybe the missing piece. Other threads mention that Children's Village isn't juvie, it's some kind of temporary caretaking when parents can't be legal guardians. So I think what's going on is the judge doesn't want to send them back to crazy mom, they won't go with dad, she therefore is will have to send them to state caretaking (which presumably sucks), decides to use that de facto threat to push the kids into the better resolution of seeing their dad, and everybody else just sees her actions as victimizing victims. The whole display of contempt and the Manson thing was just gross, though likely after a whole lot of frustration. The judicial tenure commission is after the unprofessionalism and demeanor of an exasperated judge, not any legal impropriety from what I can tell.", "Not sure what you mean. I don't know anyone that has a problem with basic corporate personhood. Most complaints are around the Citizens United decision, which isn't really a statement that corporations are people.", "No", "the panel of judges that were looking out for their own and reversed that shitty judge's punishment. i wish i were as naive as you to still believe in the system.", "\"The fact that you are defending this judge is honestly disgusting. You haven’t been in the same shoes as those kids.\"\n\nYou have no clue what I have or haven't been. You don't know my life or anything involved in it. Get off your high horse.\n\nJust because you experienced violence at a young age doesn't mean that every other case in human experience is as valid as yours. Quit being emotionally biased and use your noggin. The video said the claims were unsubstantiated. This was the FIRST time the claim had been brought up.\n\nThe kid had been in front of the judge many times prior, and agreed to the visits. You have literally ZERO reason to believe it's the truth, even going so far as to disagree with the very video you're getting your information from. Because what? It did happen to you? That writes a blank check for all humans everywhere to make up whatever they want and it's just hunky dorey?\n\nGain some earnest perspective. Not everyone is a victim.\n\n\"For you to act like a child should be held in contempt of court because they do not want to interact with their violent abusive father makes me question what kind of person you are\"\n\nI didn't. I never said the child should be held in contempt. And I said if the father WERE in fact violent he should never be permitted to be around his children. But that's NOT the context of this situation. And it's not what the video told you what happened either. The contempt charge was not because he didn't go with his dad, the contempt charge is because when asked about why he didn't go with his dad he lied about it.\n\nI hope you gain some empathy as well. Some empathy for a father who just wants his opportunity to see his children, in a messy divorce that is raging on too long. Who is tore up because his teenager either dislikes him so much that he'd lie in a courtroom about abuse to avoid going to lunch, or would let his mother push him towards saying it to keep him away.\n\nThe claim of abuse had already been previously investigated and denied by authorities. The mother tried to get a personal protection order to leverage custody. The claim of abuse is that he pushed her.\n\nDo I think a teenager should go to kid jail for missing a custody day with his dad? No. Do I think a thirteen year old should be allowed to falsely claim abuse, or rape, or any other crime to incriminate someone and get out of having to go to lunch? Also no. And rewarding that behavior is immoral and dangerous.", "You're 100% spot on.", "Some /r/SelfAwarewolves material here lmfao.", "The lack of empathy is straight heinous. I would expect soft words of understanding and assurance + a third party psychologist assuming the dad isn't actually violent instead it's threats of going to juvie to force a relationship. Maybe she decided that she should take a hint from the parents and force them into shit they don't want, seeing as they are clearly used to it. Fucking sick.", "Well, people were already being kidnapped off the street in Portland by masked unidentified forces basically answering to a chain of command politically beholden to Trump. They were randomly firing non-lethal rounds into people from their van. As far as I know, that blew over and hardly anyone is still talking about it. Did these goons face any consequences?\n\nI fail to see the distinction with Hong Kong in this specific instance. Or Belarus. The only difference is, the United States were lucky there even was a peaceful transfer of power after a failed coup d'état. And many still refuse to even call it that.", "I don't say this very often, and I recognize that it's offensive, but: what a cunt.", "Tell me which ones are which and I will", "If it was something I could support myself I could see myself digging through politicians crooked affairs. However, I cannot judge a person on affairs of the heart. \n\nPeople who want sex if it is by mutual consent is not my worry. A person cheating on another person I will not make a judgement on. I will not judge a politician by what substances they have used in their past. I don't care about that crap.\n\nI care about white collar crime. I care about the true crime that is killing this country. White collar crime is going unpunished and people are affected economically.", "The question I posed is whether Republicans and Democrats pursue members of their own parties at different rates. The data to support this is in the Wikipedia articles, e.g. who publicly spoke out against the corrupt individuals, without getting into things like “affairs of the heart”\n\nGranted we’re on the internet and don’t really know each other so there’s not really a high bar for discussions, but in general it’s a good idea to try to validate assumptions before stating them as otherwise we can misunderstand things based on unconscious biases", "I could do their other motto, \"We promise to keep our promise next time!\". That better or you still triggered?", "Hahaha hanker down as much as your stupid mouth wants. You can’t even smell the bullshit coming out of your brain.", "> are not always safe, welcoming environments\n\nWhere do recommend they be sent then? It was found, and later vindicated at many levels, that with their mother they were being actively brainwashed and co-opted into making harmful and false allegations. So which environment would you order?\n\n> a child who has done nothing wrong\n\nTechnically untrue. The two children ordered to the state facilities made false allegations in court, which would have been considered perjury if they were age of majority. They were in conspiracy with the mother to make false allegations of abuse and violence. There can be a debate about how to handle children doing such things, but it is false to say \"child who has done nothing wrong.\" It's also false to say the brainwashing home is \"a safe home to return to\".", "It feels safe to assume by this point (wrapping up) that the judge wouldn't have been so strongly wording her conviction towards the claims of violence if the kids had some firsthand testimony?", "Except it is elsewhere explained he was possibly doing inappropriate things on behalf of the Israeli consulate. I have no idea what's what in this side situation, but it's a reminder that sometimes there is more to the story.", "The Constitution doesn't mention age.", "Ya I spent some time reading through a lot of comments ans agree.", "Your determination actually turns out to be very close to what the judge determined, in a roundabout way.", "Some how I feel like I've been pulled over for speeding at the Charlotte Motor Speedway and I am in the race.\n\nOk I will follow your reasoning. Do we have criminals on both sides? By Criminal I mean money stealing crime. Crime that hurts the people economically. \n\nAlso, it is a boring world where you don't form assumptions. Assumptions are the Father of scientific testing. Example, My Hypot....assumption is this causes that.\n\nYou are warning me that I need to become a scientist. I will get on it.", "Except that the intent matters, and her intent was to punish the children, not to protect them.", "Fuck Ciavarella.", "Oh dear, you aren’t acting. My condolences to your parents.", "the puzzling thing is that she has any power over them at all. How can they be in contempt of court in a civil case they're not a party to? children are not legal extensions of their parents, what the judge did is identical to ordering YOU to go have a relationship with these people. the fuck is this shit?", "Sucks when non-conservatives make fun of the party you simp for, doesn't it? You don't really have any comebacks when you can't strawman me.", "> that’s all they have to do\n\nits debatable if they even have to show up, They're not property to be commanded, nor are they parties to the divorce case either.", "> fact that the dad was totally okay with his kids being sent to a place\n\nThat is not a fact in evidence", "Nah, it doesn’t suck because I don’t simp for democrats. You must be spending too much time with republicans and then casting their ways onto me. And I’d suggest dropping the “your triggered” card since it applies as much to you as who you use it against. I mean, you got triggered by somebody pointing out two instances that show democrats are better than republicans in a certain area. Who’s simping exactly lmfoa?", "> Nobody should ever be above the law under any circumstances.\n\nThat's a fun applause line, but it's both false and misrepresentative.\n\nIn fact, nobody is \"above the law\", even judges. Any judge who commits a crime can be, and usually is, subject to the law. You can research thousands of cases where that has happened.\n\nSecondly, it's misrepresentative because at a certain point we need the law to be adjudicated. Entity A (sometimes a person, sometimes the state) has an issue with Entity B. Both think they're right, both think the law supports them. How is that to be decided? Using a judge. We need that. It's fun to say burn it all down, but trust me, you wouldn't like a world where judges are non-existent.", "Or the judge.", "Corporations are not \"persons\", they are an assembled conglomerate of individuals serving the duty of the group. In blunt terms, a group of people is not an individual person.", "Yup.\n\nCiaverella, Conahan, Powell and Mericle.\n\nThey ruined so many kids’ childhoods.", "Yup - what do you disagree with there?", "Dog, all I did was mock the \"slightly better than the other side\" mentality that is a staple of political ignorance. I actually agree that they are marginally better, but using that as a defense is pathetic. That's what I was making fun of. Democrats just default to \"at least we aren't them\" whenever they are criticized. Well... when they aren't tokenizing minorities to use as a shield. The fact that makes you so defensive is why you come off as a simp for them. I have never voted for a Republican president in my life. Good try with the guilt by association, though.", "If the court decree says they have to show up they have to show up.", "The court decree cannot command unrelated parties. the children have nothing to do with the divorce.", "No, you self satisfied pedantic twat. I was genuinely asking how to prepare for the collapse of American society secondary to the collapse of democracy (your words), as I mistakenly took you for someone who knew what they were talking about and not pontificating horeseshit online to masturbate their ego. You imagine the fall of democracy in America to proceed without the complete degradation of society as a result? Don’t answer I don’t care. You’re a fuckwit and a prejudiced ass. \n\nYou see, you actually just wanted to pick a fight, because you just assumed everyone here wants to argue with you. In reality I was genuinely asking until you decided to respond with your smarmy pretentious bullshit. \n\nInstead you’ve listed several reasons as to why you’re actually incapable of answering the question at all and defer to vague non-answers to deflect your complete ineptitude and the fact that you’ve been caught in your bullshit. \n\nThanks for proving my point. I’d address you by your title or whatever your qualifications are but they too are only referred to by vagueness and obscurity. So I’ll address you by the only genuine title you own up to: ok, barstool commentator?\n\nYou’re excused now.", "Exactly", "Minors do have to follow some rules and custody is one of them. But like I said- how they behave during that visit is up to them", "It wasn’t really defensive to point out that you chose to mock the truth instead of acknowledge it. I’d say it’s actually you who got defensive and worked up. I just said the point is stupid and so was how you were acting, because well, mocking something you agree with and is actually true is kinda stupid isn’t it.\n\nI didn’t try and cast you as some republican. See how you’re getting defensive over something I didn’t do?\n\nI just see that you think democrats simp for people like republicans do. That’s probably from spending too much time around them making you think their behavior is normal with other people and it’s not.\n\nNobody simps like republicans do for their idols, it’s legitimately nuts lol. Building golden idols while pretending to be Christian’s lmfao. Photoshopping trumps head onto Rambo; trump riding tanks and eagles; trump being said to be sent by god himself; thousands of people going to rallies during a pandemic knowing trump abandons people in the freezing cold; having trump trains, caravans and boat parades where they sink themselves…….come on.\n\nI’d been a registered independent until trump can along and republicans went crazy far right. But at this point it’s a no brainer between democrats and a party who’s abandoned democracy, says elections are only legitimate if they win, and calls normal campaigning election rigging. The nazi marches and bull horns were hard to miss too. \n\nSo yea, I’d point out that I’m better than that trash if I was politically inclined.\n\nDemocrats suck ass for the lost part, but republicans leaned into authoritarianism, racial superior, and corruption like I’ve never seen before.\n\nEdit: typos and autocorrect fuckery", ">Minors do have to follow some rules and custody is one of them.\n\nunrelated parties are not bound by any court rulings.", "You can't know that. Also blanket statements like \"intent matters\" are frequently not true in the legal realm.", "I can know that, because that is literally what contempt of court is.", "Utterly false. Plus that's not what the word literally means... unless you're using it in the recently popularized but linguistically false sense.", "Being held in contempt is literally a punishment for misbehavior relative to a court.\n\nCan you point to a single instance where anyone has been cited for contempt of court for their own protection? Ever? In the history of the US or common law?\n\nAlso, I used \"literally\" correctly, and there is no such thing as a \"linguistically false\" usage of a word. You're nowhere near as smart as you think you are, I'm afraid.", "You're totally lying and strawmanning, and now you're doubling down on your ignorant misuse of \"literally\". Luckily I have zero respect for dishonest people so I don't have to waste energy getting trolled by you. \n\nYou whining about being smart is, however, a super transparent announcement that you're insecure about your intelligence, which you should be. But your dishonesty is an even worse defect because it speaks to your toxic character. Your intellgence deficit could be someone else's fault.", "Usually people who aren't as smart as they think they are will get super defensive after being called out. And that is exactly what happened.\n\nBut ok, I'm the stupid one. Why waste your time with me? You should be writing a letter to Merriam Webster about how one of their definitions of literally is \"linguistically false\". You know. Use your big brains and expert understanding for real impact in the world.", "Well that was a complete waste of time. Thanks for that, OP. A white judge didn't get in trouble and fucked over some kids? Yeah, no shocked. And people will say \"she was such a kind woman\", when one of her victims gets their revenge on her.", "Sure, that could be part of why you're being super defensive, but it's fairly transparent your insecurity is so crippling it doesn't even matter that I called you out.\n\nYou whining about \"big brains\" and other deeply insecure garbage is like a hundred times confirmation of this.", "What the hell! If the kids won't participate with their own father that's their choice.", "Bitch!", "I mean... if she did that? And you can prove it? Then, sure--go for it.\n\nOtherwise, you may as well hold her in contempt for queefing on the bailiff, as long as we're just making shit up. \n\n...I'm just confused why you'd even say that lmao. I haven't seen so much as rumor that she was caught doing that. Nor was it implied she even had a NEED to do it. I'm sure her lawyer would immediately ask where the the hell the accusation comes from, before it even occurred to him to deny it outright.", "Naa... I kinda doubt anyone believes that lmao. \n\nAnd \"some people\" believe that everyone should have a right to fair trial, even if one of them is a serial rapist who kills puppies and did 9/11.", "None of this matters is the fucking point. Thats not how you act with children. Especially if they're being manipulated by their mother. What the judge did wasnt right. Sending children to a detention center for not wanting to spend time with their father is insane.", "I love how you’ve been downvoted but no one has responded to you.", "This bish needs her ass kicked.", "Is that unusual? And since you’re some kind of asshat, you responded.", "200 plus professionals back the judge. The several evaluators that saw the children agreed that the children needed to be removed from the mother.\n\nThis isn't a matter where your opinion really matters. If the kids didn't want to go to the father at all... and the mother isn't fit for duty. The kids go to the state. That's it.", "That's just linguistically false", "I said \"could\" as an answer to a hypothetical scenario of OPs. Try improving your reading comprehension before posting", "You can lie to yourself, but not to me.", "Again, linguistically false", "You are clearly not reading this. He simply said a crazy ex and a divorce can make people do crazy things, which is inherently true. He made no comments to the actual case. \n\n\n\nI'm still very interested as to what the justification of the supreme court is for overruling the suspension. The actions of that judge seem perverse and a gross abuse of power and the reactions of the parents are...I just dont even know how to characterize their reaction. How could you sit there silently as a judge throws your 10 and 13 year old kids in jail for absolutely no reason and how the hell does the judge not have a responsibility to listen to a child who says their parent is violent? I guess it says it was unsubstantiated so maybe the mother was poisoning their minds against him? Maybe the dad was really a good guy and she was trying to take him out of the picture? Even if this were the case, the judge is bonkers. \n\n\n\n\nI dunno but that judge should be sentenced to at least 17 days in jail", "These poor kids, they will never have a chance at a normal life.", "You have misunderstood. I'm laughing at them sir, not you.", "I wasn’t speaking about this specific story, just responding to the previous commenter’s blanket statement that alienation from a parent inherently stems from “brainwashing”.", "I wasn’t speaking about this specific story, just responding to the previous commenter’s blanket statement that alienation from a parent inherently stems from “brainwashing”.", "that's not intellectual dishonesty. you have no evidence that abortion rights advocates ever intended the phrase to exclusively refer to reproductive rights. if they did then that would be intellectually dishonest as thet phrase is clearly much broader.", "Fucking hell, those poor kids had to grow up stuck in the middle of all that shit.", "Not even needing to be a lawyer for the lower court levels seems absolutely insane. Local elections for this kind of position are going to be rife with corruption enough already.", "You can lie to yourself, but not to me.", "Again, linguistically false", "I have a feeling that we'll be seeing this on a Netflix documentary soon.", "No, it is delporable to vote for a cheating, lying, predatory fraud who espouses rasism, sexism, LGBTphobia, and who is ALSO a famously bad businessman, or for those who enable him.", "Ah, you mean like the current president? See below, each one is fact checked or sourced by generally accepted neutral-to-left leaning sources. (Lets be real, you actually don't care so you won't read it, but others will):\n\n* Ah yes. But it's not deplorable to vote for someone [who was against desegregating bus routes](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jun/28/joe-biden/joe-biden-oversimplifies-his-record-school-busing-/) because he didn't want his kids growing up in a \"jungle\"?\n \n* Or someone that tells the American people he has a plan to stop the Pandemic \"in it's tracks\" and [essentially equates every death to \"murder\" by Trump](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/18/joe-biden/joe-biden-wrongly-claims-trump-couldve-prevented-e/), and then a year later says \"it's a state problem?\"\n\n* [Or the key architect of one of the most racist laws in modern American history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act) the 1994 Crime bill, also known as the Biden Crime Bill? And worse, well after we knew the disproportionate impact on minority communities, [continued to defend it](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2007/nov/02/joe-biden/call-the-exaggeration-police/).\n\n* [Or someone that's willing to lie and say they've been against the war in Afghanistan since the beginning?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/15/joe-biden/joe-biden-wrong-he-was-against-afghanistan-war-sta/)\n\n* [Or one that essentially had sexual assault allegations, while in office, brushed under the rug](https://www.npr.org/2020/04/29/847840765/new-information-emerges-around-biden-sexual-assault-allegation), which doesn't even account for [all seven of the women making those accusations](https://www.thecut.com/2020/04/joe-biden-accuser-accusations-allegations.html)\n\n* Or someone that used his position as vice president of the united states to [pressure Ukraine into firing a prosecutor investigating his son?] (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraine-court-forces-probe-into-biden-role-in-firing-of-prosecutor-viktor-shokin/2020/02/27/92710222-5983-11ea-8efd-0f904bdd8057_story.html) (and absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, its one big coincidence?!\n\nPlease be real. Deplorable has nothing to do with past behaviors in your world. It only has to do with whatever narrative you've been fed by social media and foreign operatives. Like there was NO BETTER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE? I mean come, on.", "This tells me that the totality of thw evidence clearly suggests that the mother is obviously successful in alienating her children againat their father, despute there being no evidence to back up the children's claims. \n\nBasically, the father is not doing anything wrong and the children are parroting what the mother tells them to. \n\nThe judge has access to a shitload of wvidence that suggests this. Unfortunately, she handled in very innaproproately but if the father has custody, that tells me the judges emotions were likely based on evidence. \n\nLook up the case of Sandra Grazzini-Rucki and David Rucki. Insane divorce case that ended up in parental kidnapping. The kids were quite literally brainwashed against their father. \n\nIt is quite rare to actually see this level of parental alienation, and I feel that many shitty fathers throw the word out when they aren't getting their way. However, there are real cases of alienation done by manipulative parents who try their damndest to turn the children against the other parent in divorce. \n\nThis video is a 1 minute snapshot of hours in that court room. \n\nI dont think the judge handled this well at all, but it's clear to me that the judge has a shitload of information we don't have." ]	2,092	videos	Court Cam- Judge Put on Trial for Threatening children in open court
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJSI7QTAt_o	/r/videos/comments/rqd7oi/tom_scott_five_youtubers_five_games_10000_money/	[ "This was an interesting watch, almost like a well thought out, psychological game show.\n\n>!I think Ronin's early betrayal lead to a general distrust between the contestants, and it was funny to see him getting shafted the next round and act all upset about it. Sam ended up getting into a position where he could dictate the game with logic and reason, and everyone ended up better off for it. !<", "Yeah I'd like to see a version of this with random people and 10x the money and compare how people play", "I really enjoyed this, I hope to see more in the future, with more opportunity to anonymously screw each other over. The ones where your gain was publicly known really changes the dynamic of screwing each other over.", "I think it would went were differently if it was just random people, they knew each other so SPOILER: Screwing them in the end would be shitty.", "Also, they all knew this would be on YouTube so, if one screwed over the group, they would forever and very publicly be known as the untrustworthy shit. That's not worth $5000.\n\nIf they did this anonymously (i.e. not put on YouTube or otherwise published) I'd bet the results would be very different.", "It was fun to watch but them knowing each other and presumably meet in the future really changes the dynamic.\n\nBy letting the leading player accumulate more medals in game four (and game three medals going to no one) made for a lackluster trading/selling of medals section.If they had known beforehand the last round would include 2 separate medals, it would have slightly improved it. Only slightly because at worst the leading player will still have a 50% chance to get the last medal. \nAlso imo game three should be designed that someone is guaranteed to get the medals. Going in game four with 3 players owing 2/2/1 medals respectively would have made for a more interesting end of the game.", "Looking at Survivor, there's definitely room for being an unapologetic scumbag and still have people root for you as long as it's framed as a part of playing the game. But I'm guessing the kind of Youtubers who Tom Scott would invite don't tend to have the kinds of fanbases who'd see it that way.", ">!Although Rohin did try to pull something, considering she put in 10 tickets and won the prize I'd call that early betrayal more Mia's than his.!<", "Was that an option though? I thought the rule was leave in the car but leave the case, ie: nobody gets anything.", "A few observations: \n\n* Mike was screwed early on by people lobbing false accusations of betrayal at him\n* from that moment he was wrongly deemed untrustworthy for the duration\n* for some reason, he didn't really defend against the false allegation very hard \n* Mia, who was first and eager to betray, somehow avoided that negative group sentiment, both before her betrayal was known and even after she confessed it. She had the power to absolve Mike but let him suffer the effects of being falsely branded\n* much is being made of Mike's skill but he won primarily on the luck of the L.U.B. win, which probably shouldn't have happened.\n* Mike was aided for over half the game by Sam, who concisely outlined and convinced the group to follow strategies that were in Mike's favor\n* in terms of optimal gameplay while keeping his word, Mike could/should have granted each other player $1000 as promised. This group would have ratified such an offer. The excess going to Mike would have been deemed reasonable compensation for \"winning\" the game and for keeping his word.", "This entire game (and most of our potential lessons from analyzing it) are highly skewed by Hawthorne Effect. \n\nHawthorne Effect is when people alter their normal behavior because they know they're being observed. \n\nIn case, all players know they're being observed because of the obvious construct that it's a show. This would apply to any kind of game show. \n\nHowever the effect would be significantly multiplied here because this particular population of players knows this observation will follow them well beyond this one game, and into their daily lives and occupations.\n\nFor background, Hawthorne Effect was coined when a productivity study noticed worker output in a factory increased no matter what change was made to the lighting, and dropped after the study. Eventually it was determined the boost was due to workers knowing they were being observed.", "That's not how I read it. That would make the \"three chances to negotiate otherwise nobody gets anything\" stage meaningless. \n\nIt was never said to take the money and run, it was just an option to leave and not have to face them.", "But that would be pointless too wouldn’t it? Why go through all that, winning the briefcase in the end, just to get nothing out of it and leaving alone in a car. I definitely read it as a Take the money and run. But I rewatched the end and they really never explicitly said anything about it.", "I agree, taking the car would have been had a very limited benefit of just avoiding the scorn of the other players. I found that and a few of the other game aspects confusing, but didn't want to watch it a second time to try and figure it out." ]	16	videos	Tom Scott: Five YouTubers. Five games. $10,000. Money: the full series
https://youtu.be/ShBvRe0Jv68	/r/videos/comments/rqdy4r/real_estate_agents_caught_breaking_the_law_on/	[ "I mean their real estate agents, it would be surprising if they didn’t break the law", "Real estate agents are notorious law breakers? First I'm hearing that stereotype.", "Same thing happened to me in the US in a hot market. Got calls within hours of listing myself through a flat fee MLS service and an agent was trying to buy the place for her son who then told me my 1% commission was offensive to agents and would deter people. I chickened out and upped it to 3%. I was begrudgingly thankful she told me though because I was in a rush to sell and got a great offer that same weekends. Messed up for sure.", "I imagine agents would also rather deal with other agents than some potential crackpot. Listing a FSBO is like being your own lawyer. I wouldn’t do it.", "Watch the video. It's very subtle and you can see why you wouldn't be able to catch it. Essentially they \"steer\" clients to homes that pay higher commissions.", "Real estate is a notoriously sleazy business.\n\nAny business where the valuation is based on someone's subjective opinion of worth is open to manipulation, and the business is, overall, poorly regulated and the regulations that do exist are not well enforced.\n\nThis is why buying and selling real estate is such a popular form of money laundering - all you need is some seed capital, the ability to lie pathologically, and absolutely no scruples.", "Realtors have no regulation, they can make up prices based on NOTHING and do whatever they want, BANKS LOVE THIS!!!!!\n\nRealtors need to go, anyone can save THOUSANDS by listing/or finding houses on Zillow which most realtors already use anyway. 6% is a ridiculous waste of money AND it often gets grouped with the mortgage costing much much more over time. \n\nFuck realtors, use Zillow.", "Haha. Realtor ad before the video.", "I guess. I knew it's notoriously cutthroat, I never really took the extra step to think of it as notoriously illegal. All sales is at least a little cutthroat, so when it's houses I would expect the intensity to go up too. So I can see where you're coming from.", "Wait what? Seller in the US has to pay 5% in order to sell the house?", "almost every seller. https://www.redfin.com/guides/how-much-is-real-estate-agent-commission-buyer-seller", "Fuck using agents then? Why bother? Just put up your house on a website and people will come.", "Its not. The guy you replied to is on some self righteous bullshit. Most real estate agents are fine, follow the law, and work with integrity. Have you all ever heard of appraisals?", "Well, I think it becomes tricky when you need to understand the law, closing process, required paperwork, etc.", "It's not illegal but should be. \n\nWhen I bought my property in a hot weather region my real estate agent was friends of the family with my inlaws. I was going to be moving and buying in a region far away from where we lived but in the same town as my in laws.\n\nSince I trusted my agents due to being friends of the family I asked them to find me people who could inspect the property for major repairs. They hired people who would say everything is fine, just so I wouldn't ask for any money off for repairs and ruin the sale. Less than a year later I find out that the AC unit is pretty much dead after the HVAC guy I paid for said it was in perfect working condition. The same for the water heater. Died in less than a year. \n\nI had no recourse and was out 15k in less than a year. \n\nIt's not illegal for them to hire people who will say they inspected something and it looks like it's in good working condition. \n\nMy only recourse is to sue the HVAC guy who did the inspection but that would cost me so much in lawyers fees and it's not a slam dunk case. The HVAC guy could say that in his opinion both the water heater and AC looked in good working condition. The guy I hired to replace the dead AC showed me the inside of the unit which looked like it had never been maintained. The water heater had never been maintained in a hard water region. \n\nThis is a common story with people buying homes. And my major error was trusting that the real estate agents wouldn't screw us because they were friends of the family.", "I've never felt traditional real estate agents actually do anything and I'm firmly of the belief that as a profession it can probably just disappear.\n\nI'm not saying there's not a need for property listing services and obviously there is a need for legal professionals when it comes to buying/selling houses but not real estate agents. They can get in the bin.", "Why do Realtors even exist again? Hey here’s\nMy offer , cool accepted , let’s go to our lawyers and get it done. \n\nTell me, has a realtor ever persuaded or convinced you to buy or sell? Or offered any meaningful advice ? Let’s be real as a buyer you know if you like the place or not", "That's the notary's job.", "Why the fuck do people use agents to buy a house, in Australia the agent is paid by the seller.", "I honestly don’t understand what the service real estate agents provide. When my wife and I bought our house we looked up every house we wanted to see and gave the list to the agent. What did they do make a phone call to the selling agent for tens of thousands of dollars?\n\nWhat a scam", "The house still has to appraise if there will be a loan on the property.", "No, it really isn't. Notary's just confirm identities. They do not tell you what regulations are.", "6% used to be the standard. It possibly has gone down to 5%", "We did the same thing, but it's the paperwork that we wanted the help with. We paid the thousands to get a person to help prevent us from losing even more thousands of dollars down the line. That said, if you're well versed in real estate transactions, you really don't need an agent. They are basically for people that don't know what they are doing, like me, even though their entire job is basically to make sure I play their game the right way, when \"their game\" is only as complex as it is because they want it that way, not because it has to be that way.", "Good agents, about 5% or so of the total, can actually bring a lot of value to a transaction. The more complex the situation, the more they are needed - IF they have the knowledge required to navigate every aspect of owning, maintaining, and selling homes.\n\nSadly, most agents do not belong in the business. We need MUCH higher standards.", "In some places, like Canada, the notary can do all of that stuff instead of a lawyer. \n\nThey do everything you would expect a lawyer to do in the states.", "If the water heater and AC work, then they work. We sold our house 6 years ago and it had a 25 or 30 year old boiler. The buyers wanted a discount on it or replaced completely (I forget which exactly). But it still worked so we were under no obligation to replace it. It could have broken the day after we closed or it could still be running fine today. If they wanted a warranty, they could have paid a premium for a brand new house, and a warranty through the builder. It's unfortunately just something you have to set aside money for.", "Keep in mind that nothing the agent is doing is actually related to saving you money down the line.\n\nThey are neither on the hook for really anything, and you can get the exact same 'support' through other, much cheaper, means.", "Imagine being a seller and bitching about the odds being stacked against you in this market.", "What people don’t realize is that you don’t need a realtor to sell your property. You can pay a real estate lawyer a couple grand to draw up all the papers the bank needs and you’re good to go without paying so much to agents.", "I’ve seen a lot of 4% in the north east.", "What you're not getting is the 6% commissions get passed onto the buyer. The whole profession inflates the price of homes by 5%+.\n\nI bought my identical townhome from an owner with no agents on either side. I paid $10k less than the one across from me who dealt with an agent... Mine is an end unit. She paid $10k more as a buyer.", "Yeah, when my wife and I bought our home, our agent was an absolute godsend. As a young home-buyer, sometimes you just don't know all the things to look for that could be red flags for ownership. Foundation type, insulation used on different surfaces that seem sus. Our agent crawled thru a 1x2 crawl space into a walled-off section of an unfinished basement and found an old asbestos burner someone had just sealed and pretended didn't exist. All because they thought \"There's no real reason this wall should exist. It's super weird that it's here. And there's an access panel, but there shouldn't be any pipes back here.\"", "How do you find private deals like that? At most, I see maybe 1 or 2 FSBO around here. Everything else is done through agents unfortunately.", "Oh my god, i knew all real estate agents were assholes. \n\n\\Watch video\\ \n\nFirst agent literally tells them everything, works in their best interests.....", "I know law firms that will do the entire transaction for $750, including escrow. I believe the only other major costs are the appraisal and the title insurance.", "That makes me happy to hear - when I was selling, I'd always try to tear a house apart instead of \"sell\" it. Polybutene pipes were the first thing I'd look for, but there are so many red flags specific to each area, it takes someone with a fair amount of experience to spot them.\n\nNow my wife does all the selling, but since I'm a licenced general contractor, I still get brought in for showings to see what I can find wrong. Favorite part of my job.", "6% commissions ultimately get passed onto the buyer. The whole profession inflates the price of homes by 5%+.\n\nIn the past, real estate agents were a necessity. Before the internet an agent would search through all the new listings and find the right home and drive you around to see homes in neighborhoods you didn't understand. They literally printed the listings out and put them in a binder to show before driving all around town. They provided a value that was basically required.\n\nNow we have Zillow and a myriad of options to find the perfect home ourselves. We show the houses we want to see to the agent and the agent just schedules and opens the door.\n\nI bought my townhome from an owner with no agents on either side of our deal. I paid $10k less than a girl who bought an identical townhouse across from me. She closed a week after me, and had an agent... Mine place is an end unit and hers is not. She paid $10k more as a buyer for the identical townhouse. After commissions, the seller she bought from got paid less than my seller. My deal had winners on both sides. Her deal had two winners too... The agents.\n\nAll of our negotiations and paperwork took a few hours, and the closing attorney made sure it was all correct.", "The AC unit worked in theory. Meaning if it didn't have turned on for more than a few hours it worked. Once it turned on and started to strain it died. The water heater? I will forgive that but the AC was pretty much held together with duct tape to get the sale to go forward.", "This comment was brought to you by Zillow.com", "That's such a bummer that you gave up the 2%. At least you had lower seller fees than the traditional 3%. Flat-fee MLS listings are the way to sell for sure.", "Tl:dw?", "This is why the trump and kushner families are so heavily involved in it.", "Did you even watch the video?", "We won't reveal there identities. WTF why are you not turning them into the authorities so they lose there real-estate license. why are you not putting there firms on blast for creating the culture amongst there workers that the vast majority of those you checked failed and committed crimes. You want to stop this make a few stern examples and let it be known there will be people out checking so they have to fear that every next client might be recording to turn their ass in for being lieing pieces of shit.\n\nReal estate agents need to get phased out faster the big rig drivers as we push to have technology make industries like these better for all involved.", "Your lawyer ensures everything is correct to protect you from potential losses, not the real estate agent.", "I sold my house FSBO. Just got all the required stuff from the title company. \n\nSetup a website that was 123AppleSt.com that was the address of my house. Had a breakdown of what to expect, photos, and everything. People driving by called. \n\nSomeone bought it in 2 weeks. No commissions, I even paid their closing cost because I wanted it gone asap. The lady that ended up buying tried to ask for lower and I just said \"nah, i'm paying all your closing I can't go lower\" Then she signed, and had it sold in a month. \n\nShe got an inspection. Handed me a list of things to fix. It was a couple minor electrical things. I sent her photos of the new breakers installed. We went ahead with the sell. \n\nIf you're thinking of selling, call a title company, see what you need to do. They gave me a little packet with the offer forms and everything needed.\n\nI also wasn't selling anything with an inground oil tank, or super sketchy. It was a 6 year old house, so nothing really needed fixed. It was a fenced in yard, so no site survey needed done.", "Sounds like that former friend of the family needs his kneecaps confiscated :x", "My agent did a lot, constantly looked for homes with our criteria, and we ended up getting our current home because they knew about it being finished and got us a special tour a few days before it was to be listed. Our offer was accepted 2 days later. Home never even hit market.\n\nShe also managed to get us contacts locally for mortgages that beat even costco rates, which many other lenders said they couldn't do. Best title company, Best inspectors, ect.\n\nWe truly got a dream home and it wouldn't have happened without our agent. Mind you, first time buyers, but I always verified everything said and done. I have many horror stories about other agents though, from friends and family.", "Lawyers do that, not agents.", "Thank God the video is marked as from Canada otherwise I woulda had no clue", "Reality is an extremely technical business where realtors need a deep understanding of homes, home builders, neighborhoods, and relevant laws (city, county, state, federal) to do their jobs correctly. Realtors really have to be experts in their field to be effective agents for their clients.\n\nGetting licensed is disproportionately easy compared to the technical difficulty of the work. Many people see it as easy money and just use it as a platform to rip people off. The industry is currently broken due to a total lack of oversight and outdated regulation.\n\nIt's pretty difficult to tell the bullshitters from the professionals as a first-time home buyer. My general advice is to ask about building (or rebuilding) a fence on the edges of the property and if the realtor gives you an immediate answer then they're a bullshitter. If they tell you that you need a property survey (or refer to a survey in their files), they are working in your interest. This person is handling the largest purchase you're likely to make this decade, so it's in your interest to scrutinize everything they tell you.", "It's quite a bit more than just showing and selling the house. As part of the 'deal', there's a lot of milestones that happen before money changes hands. You usually make an offer, and then someone 'accepts' the offer, but then there's a sellers contract part or something, and a period where the buyer gets to do inspections and can back out of the contract for a fee, etc etc. There's also appraisals and getting a commitment from the bank for the mortgage. \n\nIt's a complicated process with a lot of opportunity for misstep, and if its the first time you've done it or haven't done it in a long time, its nice to have someone who knows the ins and outs helping you.", "That's great and all, but that's what a home inspector is for. Real estate agents are just there to coordinate showings and signing of papers. Completely overpaid imo.\n\nEdit: Love how almost every reply talking about how not all realtors are bad and that some are really good comes from somebody who is/is related to a realtor... Funny how your team is always one of the good ones.", "The agents are always paid by the buyer. They set it up so the money comes from the seller, but it’s the buyer paying. Without agents the price would be lower, saving the buyer money, not the seller. \n\nWhen I say this people always push back so I’d like to give an example. Imagine bringing a buying agent to buy a car. The agent asks the dealership for 3%. Do you think the dealership just pays that out of pocket? Hell no, they tack it onto the price. It’s no different with real estate.", "The agent is there to make sure the paperwork is done right, which saves me down the road if/when a legal matter comes up, I don't have to go \"oh, well I guess I should have been better prepared\". For instance: the number one biggest issue with buying a home is the things that the previous owner knew about but didn't disclose. With an agent, you can get help in rectifying that; without an agent, the seller could say \"sue me\" and you'd be screwed trying to prove they knew something.\n\nIt's not that the agent is a good person, but it's that they make sure things are air tight from a legal perspective more-so than an untrained individual likely could.", "Except you gotta pay out of pocket for the inspection and that's something a lot of people waive because they don't think it's necessary.", "I'll have to keep this in mind when I go to sell my house. Thanks for the insight.", "Yep. Can literally pay someone who's worked/experienced in home construction to basically come over and shit-talk the potential buy. Do the same with cars, take it for a \"test drive\" and pay a mechanic to throw it up and take a look at it.\n\nHonestly, unless you have really specific needs, you can do most of the research yourself. Does it take time, and effort? Sure, but so does everything else, and paying someone that much money is just insane to me when you can take a month or two and learn the basics, then pay someone else to actually inspect.", "That's a great point, but the agent can also work with the seller/seller's agent after the sale if something comes up. It's a lot harder to do that if you aren't used to doing such things.\n\nAgain, I don't advocate for agents, and I hate giving them 5% or whatever for doing just about nothing (it really should be a flat fee), but for people that aren't in the real estate business it can be comforting to have someone that does know their stuff, even if they're just trying to get as much money out of you as possible.", "I've been to my notary several times, and every time he explains the relevant laws and duties in great detail. How else you would buy and sell real estate directly from someone else?\n\nIn my case of buying building land, I didn't have an agent, only the seller did. The only thing their agent did was to receive our email and print out a template that we'd fill in and send to the notary. These agents are absolutely not lawyers. Their responsibilities are to be a middleman for renters, show people around houses and apartments, etc. They are usually (in my experience) not the brightest people.\n\nThe notary on the other hand validates the legality of the contract, explains the law on both sides of the transaction in great detail, executes the transaction of the sale of properties, ... He did this when I was buying building land, he did this when I created my company, even moving my company, etc...", "Waiving the inspection is the single worst thing homeowners can do. Unless the buyer is competent enough to do a basic inspection then it should never be skipped.", "First agent good. Rest of agents shitty", "They’re talking about real estate agents breaking the law - the subject of the video", "Your lawyer isn’t knowledgeable about the specifics of that house. They know generic contracts, but they’ve never seen the house and never will. \n\nThere’s a lot of small items that change the contract and your lawyer will basically just say “hey you good with this Oil Tank Removal clause?” without knowing what’s actually going on at the property or why that clause is or is not needed.", "In theory they'd take care of inspections. Buying a house without an inspection, at least in the US, is pretty stupid.", "Is this in Canada? I think most people don't use a lawyer in the US. If people use both a lawyer and an agent in canada, yea that is kind of weird.", "It’s impossible in this market bc time is everyone’s worst enemy (along with cash buyers trying to flip the house…) but everyone should strive to have two different home inspectors inspect the house. My friends had this done and one guy found nothing, the other found a similar fake wall thing with a god damned waterfall of water behind it in the basement.", "Yeah, selling can be pretty simple, the difference is you were willing to put in some effort and invest time in learning the process. Some people are fine paying $10,000 or whatever just to have someone else do the days work for them.", "So who took care of the inspection? Buying without doing a professional inspection seems risky.", "Why would you need to lie more than any other profession money laundering? If you are laundering people's money, you hardly need to lie to them to get them to buy/sell over value.", "How does it work where you are?", "Absolutely. And you hit the issue right on the head. If there are 3 potential buyers and one of them is willing to waive the inspection to expedite the process, the homeowner is going to choose that offer every time (assuming all other things equal).", "All of the things you mentioned I had to do as the home buyer or seller of our previous house. \n\nLet’s assume though that the list you mention was actually done by the agent.\n\nOn a $500,000 home the commission per agent (at 2.5% each) would be $12,500. A person making $50/hour would need to “work” on this specific home sale 250 hours, or 6 weeks and 2 days (slightly rounded up).\n\nUsing myself as an example from the first showing of our home we were selling to closing was 28 days. There’s not even enough time for the agent to earn the money they are paid if they worked full time only for me (which he didn’t). Furthermore homes in our area are significantly more than $500,000 used in the example…", "Oh, 100% agreed. /u/milfblaster69 hit the nail on the head as to why it happens tho:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqdy4r/real_estate_agents_caught_breaking_the_law_on/hqabsj4/", "I can also grow all my own food, or I can pay someone to do it for me. I don't know the ins and outs of buying or selling a home and all the deadlines for everything, so I pay someone else to handle it.", "Real estate agents are about two tiers below car sales agents on the 'useless and scammer' totem pole", "I had to get my inspectors, pay for it, and be present for all inspections for all homes I’ve purchased/lives in", "Works differently here. Notary has to do it. An average house (€ 300 000) it will incur around € 13 000, for paperwork and handling the transaction. Appraisal you can do yourself. Title insurance doesn't exist.", "Exactly. If you basically have to become a \"mini real estate agent\" to buy your own home to avoid getting ripped off, why would you bother paying one?\n\nIt is wild how nonchalantly people make the biggest financial decision of their entire lives with blinders on.", "In my state it’s a legal requirement to have a lawyer involved.", "I used an agent for the first house I bought when I was younger, and after that process, I vowed I would never use another agent. Agents always tell you that, \"the seller pays the fees\". Such a horseshit claim, if I am the one paying for the house, I am ultimately paying the real estate agents. It's just like when you buy a beer at a bar and it's a flat $5 even, it's not that you aren't paying sales tax, it's that the bar is paying the sales tax and not separating it out. \n\nUnfortunately, if the home is listed with an agent, you are kind of forced into bringing an agent to the table. Fortunately, there are plenty of agents. If you search, that will take a reduced buyers commission, and you will have a little bit more negotiating power, or some buyer's agents will even kick back 1% to the buyer.", "We had a family friend as an agent and have used her for 2 homes now. She's been incredible and was definitely looking out for our interests.", "When we were looking for our house, we contacted a realtor. He asked what we were looking for. I gave him a list of all the things we were looking for. He set up something to keep spam e-mailing me listings which matched what we wanted. Told me to let him know what we think of what he sends.\n\nAt first, I respond to each one, and ask him to adjust things based on that feedback. He ignored me and the results were still just as meh. Only when I replied that we were interested in a place did he reply, and replied quickly. So he was seeing my other responses, just didn't give a shit...\n\nThen, we find a place we like, and then he insists on showing us this other place too, because it's a place he has listed. The ceilings are so low that I need to duck to go through every doorway and my head is brushing the ceiling in some rooms (I'm a bit tall, but not THAT tall).\n\nThen, as we're going through the process of buying the house, he sends something he asks us to sign which says that if the seller doesn't pay him his commission, we agree to pay him. I refuse to sign it.\n\nThen, we get an inspection, and there's some problems. We send the list of things we need fixed to him. He can't manage to communicate that list to the owner. After a bunch of back and forths, the owner just goes, \"fuck it, how about I throw a few thousand dollars your way and you take care of it?\" At that point, we all just give up and go, \"fuck it, close enough\" and just get the deal done.\n\nAs a buyer, I would never bother with a Realtor again. I could have set up automated things myself, contacted people myself just as easily as I contacted him, and just cut out the middle man.", "It's not a very \"professional\" profession. The license is trivial to get in most places and the biggest real estate agency around you may just be a builders wife who gets that 4-5% off each sale the builder makes.\n\nAlthough there is maybe 1 actually professional real estate agent per 100 the truth is that 1 agent doesn't need your listing and won't cold call you to get it. Go talk to a local land surveyor and ask who they'd recommend.", "Well this was in Canada. But yes generally if you (or the buyer) is using an agent then the agent will get a commission up to 5%", "If you sign something without understanding it then that’s on you. We bought a house recently and we made sure to read every line of the agreement so we knew what to expect. When we had questions we brought it up to the sellers for them to answer (which is what your real estate agent would do anyway). “Are the curtain rods staying, what’s the deal with this damage, we need you to to pay for professional cleaning” are all issues that would come up in the contract and you better make damn sure you read and understand everything before you pick up the pen.", "Agents work on commission when they sell your house. They do illegal shit to prop up their commission from a typical 1-2% all the way up to 5%. Lady tries to sell house herself but sets 1% commission, so agents react by trying to avoid her house and try to get their customers to avoid it through blatantly illegal means. First agent they 'investigate' turns out to be a good guy, last one they 'investigated' turned out to be peak evil. Government watches evidence, releases memo saying 'don't do that' and calls it a good day.", "This was oddly compelling", "Unless you are a home inspector, it's incredibly stupid. There is no upside to skipping inspections unless the house is so new that it shouldn't matter or you built/inspected it yourself. Still, get the inspection. Why anyone would spend that kind of money without going through the thorough review process partially designed to ensure they don't lose their ass on the deal is beyond me", "Every realtor I've spoken with has told me that they've never sold/bought a home that didn't appraise at the agreed upon value. Mind you they said, there never had a home go for $80k over the asking price though.", "Yup. The seller has to pay both their agent and the buyers.", "3% is not the norm anymore. Sellers agent use a 1% service thru redfin snd pay buyers 2.25 or 2.5%", "Sure, but do you want to pay $500 for each of the half-dozen homes you're looking at? Our agent was great, although we did send her all of the postings we wanted to see. She was knowledgeable about upgrade and improvement costs, what was feasible due to load-bearing walls, and what was going on in all of the neighborhoods. Also had recommendations on how much we could ask off of the list price, and how much we could get off after the home inspection.", "Are we just ignoring that many municipalities require an appraisal to determine fair market price? Very few (if any!) agents determine price. They work with the seller to determine what will get their house sold in the local market and in current condition, usually advising what end of the appraisal range makes the most sense. \n\nThey don't actually set the price, and that appraisal range barely bumps their bottom line. It also doesn't help an agent to always push for max - that makes other homes more attractive options. \n\nPeople really seem to ignore that this 5% figure isn't even gross income for the agent, but usually the agents agency. Locally, most agents boil down to 1/2% as their GROSS income for a sale. If the range is 20,000 dollars on the appraisal, the agent who pushes for max price all the time stands to make an extra... Hundred bucks. Yeah.", "> They do illegal shit to prop up their commission from a typical 1-2% all the way up to 5%.\n\nEverything else you said was right but it specifically said that 5% is the standard and 1-2% is the discount rate, and I'm pretty sure it used to be even higher than 5 a long time ago.", "I get that the lying is wrong and possibly some kind of fraud, but the people making this video were disgusted by the sheer concept of people setting a price for their own labor (e.g., 2.5% commission instead of 1%).\n\nThese people offer a service. That service may not be worth their cost in your opinion, but they are free to set the price of that service to whatever they want. If someone is offering them less than what they think is the value of their labor, they are choosing not to take that job.\n\nAgain, I'm not talking about the few agents who showed up an lied, I'm talking about the ones who would refuse to take the job, which the creators of the video regarded as just as disgusting and scandalous as the lying.\n\nSetting the price of your own labor is a contemptable ideal in Canada?", "As a buyer I wouldn’t ever use a real estate agent unless I was moving to a brand new area. \n\nI know where I want to live and I just need someone to let me into the house to tour it.", "The first home we bought appraised 10 k less than the agreed upon price. This was in 2011 when the market was rock bottom.", "You can hire an attorney to go over the paperwork with you for a few hundred dollars", "In some states, Illinois is one of them I think a lawyer has to be involved.", "In my area, offers are coming in 40-50k over ask, 10k cash gift to sellers, inspection waived, 14 day close.\n\nWhen the alternative is being homeless sometimes you have no choice", "Home inspector is a different person than the real estate agent.", "I think the point the other poster was making is that you can get a lawyer to do that for a flat fee vs the 1-3% commission for an agent.", "Home inspectors are quite easy to find on Google, and the appraisal process is your lender's job, not the real estate agent's. You can find all the contractual forms online, but if you're really nervous about it you can always hire a real estate attorney for a few hundred dollars", "I should have added \"For the last several years.\" They were not realtors prior to 2015 to my understanding. The supply has just been so low that most everything is appraising at the agreed upon value. I can only speak to the Midwest and the rocky mountain markets though", "This topic comes up a lot in various places and to me is pretty damning of the profession. It’s definitely a field that is screaming for disruption. How? What are next steps? Regulated transparency seems like a good first step to me. Raising consumer awareness, what else do we do except complain?", "I've used Redfin to buy and sell and would not hesitate again. The 2.5-3% that standard agents charge is a sham and needs to change.", "6% (3 each for buyer's and seller's agents) is standard where I live", "My father's real estate agent cheated him out of $50,000+ by not telling him they had a second buyer willing to counter his own buyer (and not disclosing that the buyer was his buyer in the first place). Watching that made my blood boil about how scummy they can be.", "A tale as old as time", "In the US the sellers agent and the seller agree on a commission % to be split by buyers agent and sellers agent. It comes from the sellers portion of the sale price but that money is produced by the buyers. Kinda paid by both parties. Home prices wouldn’t drop 5% if there are no agents. And FSBO typically gets 3-5% less of a purchase price than one marketed by agents.", "Yeah typically appraisers will make the price work and everything is subjective so plenty of wiggle room. \n\nBut the appraisal is still a concern when a loan is involved. \n\nAnother reason cash deal is preferred.", "The house we're in now, and hopefully will be in for decades, was not even listed on the market when we were looking. There's a local RE who is really dialed into the area and once he knew what we were looking for reached out to the owner of the house to see if he was interested in selling and we were able to work it out. The guy had moved but was renting the place out and the tenants were off their lease. The RE knew the house because he had been involved in that sale before and then had helped the guy lease it out. To me he more than earned that commission.", "The problem is the dishonesty. Most people would not be ok paying for real estate agents if they understood how simple the process actually is", "My market was red hot when I was buying; shit was off the market days after being listed. If I didn't have an agent I never would have gotten anything.", "Tl Dr at the bottom. \n\nNot many people ITT seem to understand the value of an agent. Yes these people exist. However would you visit a payday loan center to start your small business? No, that'd be foolish. Going to the right agent (read: avoiding people like this) is similar. You do your research to determine which ones will actually maximize sale value as opposed to just their profit. \n\n\"Just coordinating showings\" is incredibly misleading. What is a showing? It's when strangers go through your shit while you're not there. By all means, if you want nobody accountable there then don't use an agent. Just let the people in (hopefully you're lavailable or even live in the area) to check it out. Obviously many people actually would be present and able to do so, but depending on the market that's just not the case. In our local area, most agencies ask that sellers VACATE THE HOUSE DURING SHOWINGS so buyers feel comfortable talking freely with the agent instead of feeling obligated to the seller. That's right, going straight to the seller might end up in the seller pressuring you to buy, and they have fewer legal obligations to you than the agent does. Look up buyers agency and sellers agency, learn. \n\nThe agent (usually on their own expense) tours prospective buyers through homes that fit their needs, sometimes dozens. The whole world is not suburbia, a day of showings can stay in the same county and cover easily 100-200 miles with needy buyers. \n\nThen it's the fun part: the money. Saying an agent makes 5% is simple ignorance. The agency charges that figure, which often is tied to the visibility of the agency. Our local agencies absolutely skyrocket visibility of a property by attaching their agency name to it; that's the point and everyone wins when this happens because buyers know the agency by reputation. They feel more comfortable with homes and prices as a result. These prices are set by appraisers who are state regulated and legally cannot be affiliated with any party to the sale. Yes that's right, the agent doesn get to scheme about how much money they can stiff people for. The agency is getting 5-6% of the final sale price. They could push for max pricing but quite obviously that makes some options less attractive and sets a pretty clear tone to buyers AND sellers, who would then just choose someone else who doesn't do that. Sometimes free markets work well like that. \n\nSo that money, what happens to it? Most of it vanishes, as far as the agent is concerned. The agency takes most (usually 5% if the commission is 6) for the name power they bring. Generally the agent grosses half a percent of sale price. That's before tax and not including expenses such as showings. Oh, and most agents pay for their own advertising. If you see an ad for a single house, the agent probably paid for it themselves. That's part of what they do to sell your house, along with the showings, setting up appraisal and inspection, ensuring transaction law is followed, and carting people around the countryside so they can say they don't like the color of the paint on the baseboard. \n\nTl; Dr - coming away from this video with a distrust for all realtors is like thinking Dr. Oz and Dr. Phil are good examples of doctors.", "They're modern-day car salesman. All you need is escrow and title company, agents do crap. My folks just sold the $2 million property in the agent made in the hundreds of thousands", "My lender handled the escrow and appraisal (I'm guessing they had lawyers involved, but I never communicated with them). My real estate agent had nothing to do with that part. She just sent me links for houses on listing sites (that I was already looking at) and emailed me forms (I could have easily found online) when I decided which house I wanted to offer on. To this day I regret hiring her as I know I could have negotiated a lower price if the seller didn't have to pay her 3%, and next time I'll just do it all myself", "r/conservative poster cares about the price of labour? lmfao", "Same in my area though.. The alternative is renting", "No, you only inspect the home after you put in an offer?", "In what world would a conservative not support the free market?\n\nAre you confusing a person being free to set the price of their own labor, and others being free to either accept or decline that price, with the government using the threat of violence to forcibly set the price of labor and force everyone to accept it?", "So youre insulting me for sharing a personal experience... On Reddit? Why would you not just leave it to the readers to make their own opinions about my comment? Of course my sample size does not apply to the whole housing market you fucking moron\n\nPS do you think it's not laughable that you would still pay $30k over asking the appraised value?", "For sure. Cash is better all around", "oh", "There are a lot of situations where the paperwork on a home sale is difficult, like buying a house from a couple undergoing a divorce, or the estate of a deceased person. My wife is currently the executor of her father's estate, he and his wife purchased a home before they were married and never established tenancy in common, so now that they're both dead, the home is owned by two estates, and the wife's only descendant has severe mental illness. This is a situation where a realtor earns their money. \n\nEven an standard home sale is a transaction involving four parties- the buyer, seller, and the buyer's bank and seller's bank. I think that coordinating the transaction is a valuable service, but it doesn't need to be bundled with commissioned sales.", "Good idea. Just be careful - the sellers agent will then try to take the buyers commission as well. And they’ll tell you that’s just the way it is. And they’ll filter communication to the seller.", "Sounds like they overpaid.", "Renting market is worse in my area. If you can even find a suitable place to rent, you’ll be paying $700 more a month than it would cost to buy. Comparable homes in my neighborhood are renting for $2500-2800 a month. It’s insane.", "True. I suppose you could just go knock on their door and talk to them in person, or if the market permits the time you could mail them a letter. Then they could even ditch their own agent at that point to double their savings", "That's exactly my point. And from a legal perspective, a lawyer is going to make it even more airtight.", "The sell commission is the same wether the buyer uses an agent or not. If the buyer uses no agent then the seller takes the whole commission instead of sharing it.", "Yeah, the offer is contingent on inspection. You don’t inspect every house you look at.", "In Canada it is 5% due to practices like this, it claimed 1-2% is seen in a variety of countries for better results such as South Korea, Netherlands, etc. I’m sure typical is probably wrong because they didn’t mention average.", "It's a pretty simple process that can be handled entirely online. The idea that there are all the complicated \"ins and outs\" is a blatant lie perpetuated by the industry", "🤔🤔🤔", "I bought my house privately, and it was the easiest thing I ever did.\n\nI would sell privately and real estate agents can get fucked.", "Yup! The process is Offer Letter -> Inspection -> Negotiation for money off based on inspection (or breaking the contract due to unforseen issues) -> Closing.\n\nBasically you put in an offer on a house that you like, and after it's been accepted you then get a home inspection. You can ask for money off for things that weren't noticeable during your normal walk-through (in a reasonable housing market, anyway, as this probably doesn't work during the current craziness), and basically you negotiate with the seller. If they're comfortable with it, then you close and you own the house. If you can't come to an agreement, then the contract is nullified and you go back to looking at houses.\n\nSo for us, we found a house we liked, put in an offer, then got an inspection. The inspection raised a bunch of moderate issues (cracked heat exchanger in the furnace, bad wiring of our junction box, soft floor in the bathroom, tree roots destroying the floor of the garage,etc) and a whole ton of minor issues (deck railing not up to code, door to the garage not being an exterior door, etc). The whole report ran for 10+ pages. We picked out the major ones (electrical, bathroom floor, tree growing out of the garage) and asked for \\~$5k off. It was accepted, and we closed a month later.\n\nCurrently things are absolutely crazy, so plenty of people are either waiving the inspection altogether or are having an unofficial inspection before putting in an offer so that they know exactly what they're getting themselves in to since sellers are prohibiting negotiation after the offer letter. But yes, normally you have the inspection after the offer letter has been accepted.", "I mean...yeah. \n\na lot of service jobs exist because people like convenience, accessibility, easy process, to save time, etc \n\nIts true you don't need a degree to sell your own home which you are closely familiar with. But some people are genuinely okay with paying a premium because they are busy with other stuff. Or because they don't want to deal with a laundry list of things to successfully sell your house.", "You’re right but I’ve also had agents who were crap at dealing with those issues because they were uncommon. I think the typical agent is looking to do a few showings, make a few offers, and get to a typical closing m.", "That’s the normal and recommended way to buy but people are skipping it not because they’re lazy or cheap but because housing is booming and often multi offer scenarios where buyers will waive inspection. So if you don’t, your offer doesn’t get looked at unfortunately.", "what kind of value?", "In booming markets you cannot buy unless you waive inspection. In a more balanced or buyers market sure", "The real issue here is that becoming a real estate agent is RIDICULOUSLY easy. The test is a joke. You have tons of agents who just don't care about their clients and just want to make a quick buck, and don't really know (or care) what the law says. When the market is hot, the number of agents jumps up like crazy, and then when the market goes down they all quit and go back to their day jobs. If you do use an agent, make sure that they've been in the industry for at least a few years and ask for references. \n\n\nAll that being said, agents can add value. I don't know about residential real estate, but in commercial real estate the average sale that has no broker representing the seller sells for about 20% less in Seattle. In residential sales, there is literally an industry preying on people who try to avoid agents, it's called wholesaling and they will get the property into contract and then sell the contract at a higher price and pocket the difference. People try to save a buck on agents and can get screwed over by not knowing the value of their property, not understanding contracts, or not marketing it correctly. \n\n\nBe careful out there!", "You also need someone that has your back with the negotiations and contracts. It’s free for the buyer.. seller always pays.", "Yeah but by doing your own selling you can sell to someone who doesn’t have an agent either and you don’t have to pay buyer commission. So you can save about 6%. On a million dollar house that’s $60k difference. The typical percentage model has not adjusted in response to the housing boom.", "Why is the buyer getting a larger fee? Isn't the seller doing more work?\nWhere I'm from you don't have buyers agents. You look up the houses you want to consider and only deal with the sellers agent.", "Yeah she wanted to use the commission to pay the down payment on it. It was all kinds of lame for sure. Sold to someone else for above asking thankfully.", "The appraisal is pretty nonsense. The appraiser typically works for the bank and knows if the appraisal is even close then they need to sign off for the bank to sell you the mortgage. And while a buyer agent doesn’t need to get someone to pay $20k more for no reason, in multi offer scenarios the buyer agent needs to push the buyer to bid more to win the highest bid and make the sale. Get your buyer to waive contingency too because then your commission is guaranteed. And hey, while it’s a small difference on one sale, this sale will be tomorrow’s comp so the inflation cycle continues.", "Horrible! Why didn’t you fire him immediately?", "Buyers have agents? We had a mortgage broker but nothing else. What does a buyer’s agent do?", "That surprised me too. Here it is 1,5 - 3 %, but tiered fees is common too and that is a bit harder to compare. \n\nI have a house and hope the increasing prices drives the fee down eventually but just a quick google seems to indicate they were the same in 2021.", "I had no idea commission was as crazy as that in some places.\n\nI live in Scotland and there are no MLS (multiple listing service) in the UK. There are \"property portals\" like Zoopla, Rightmove and OnTheMarket. Buyers usually browse the portals to find properties they like while the real estate companies will upload listings on these portals for the seller.\n\nIf someone wants to buy a home they'll pay a solicitor/conveyancer fixed fees for doing all the legal/paperwork. \n\nIf someone wants to sell their home, I believe some places do offer fixed fees but the standard rate is 0.9-1.3%, with the commission being negotiable especially above £500k", "I had a similar situation. When I was a first time buyer my agent was pressuring me to agree to a higher price then I wanted to pay. I folded before understanding her motivation was just to close the deal so she could get her cut. By asking the seller to lower his price I was cutting into her piece of the pie.", "Eh, I can advocate for myself in buying a house. Why should I give someone 1-3% of the purchase price for passing emails back and forth and opening a door? \n\n3k for that? 9k? 18k for no value add?", "My realtor worked with me for nearly 3 years to find me the perfect house. I wanted unique and interesting and within my budget and in a good neighborhood with good schools not that I have kids but yeah.\n\nMy realtor found me a huge ass dome home that nobody wanted because it was stuck in the 80s when it was made and I got the home for $50,000 under asking in this market.\n\nI've had a lot of fun working on updating it and fixing it up. It's very energy efficient, it's got lots of cool features, and when I finish the renovations it will be worth more than $100,000 more than I paid for it assuming the world doesn't end first.", "I felt like I paid my agent a lot, but it was my first home and I had no idea what to expect. She answered all my ridiculous questions and made sure I stayed on track with the inspections I wanted. She advised me on what I should offer, and when I went way lower and still got the house, she was excited and surprised for me. Had an issue with stuff that was supposed to be cleaned up that wasn’t, she stepped in and finished the job. I’m still in contact with her, and have sent two friends her way. Worth it for the peace of mind, and the seller pays it anyway. So hopefully when I sell my home it will be a different scene, but I did benefit from having an agent representing me.", "Seller pays with the money they get from the buyer. So if they didn't have to pay commission they could sell for a lower price.", "This video was in Canada, although it’s pretty similar to what’s in the US", "Yeah buyers have agents here in the US. Well simply put they help the buyers with the process. What sucks is I have tried to buy houses multiple times without agents and the sellers/sellers agents wouldn’t take me seriously. I have even sent offers before and they ignored me.\n\nAnyways a lot of the times if you don’t have an agent as a buyer, the sellers agent/office will try to sign you up with someone from their office.\n\nDuring my first home buying though, my agent helped me a lot through the process and worked directly with the bank for a smooth closing. They even had the seller do repairs that came up during house inspection. I paid a “premium” because the seller wouldn’t cover all the cost of my agent but it was worth it for me to have peace of mind.", " I think it’s a lot more than simply “looking for houses.” When my wife and I purchased our home we became friends with our agent and she states that looking for homes is the fun and easy part. The system is clogged with MASSIVE amounts of paperwork, legal BS and crap I can’t even wrap my brain around. Literally finding the home and making an offer is a tiny percentage of the work needed to be completed when purchasing a home. I assume some states and towns are easier or more difficult depending on the policies for those areas. In Southern California it’s a nightmare and couldn’t imagine trying to do it yourself.", "While inspections are often waived to incentivize sellers, making the blanket statement that a person can't buy without waiving, even in a booming market, is simply not true. Obviously it varies case by case, but that's part of why the blanket statement is misleading at best.", "I have no clue why the hell it's a percentage commission. \n\nIt seems like the practice started when homes were cheap, but now these people are basically getting what someone could earn in an entire year. Just on one deal.\n\nIt's outrageous that their commissions have skyrocketed with real estate prices.", "I’m on the opposite coast, in my area the lawyer I had to hire prepared all of the paperwork required and anything related to the mortgage was done by me via my mortgage broker which we found ourselves.\n\nEdit: not to mention the lawyer was a fraction of the cost my agent was.", "They would indeed need to push the buyer to bid more ... Until they lose that buyer or the price leaves the buyers range. A reputable agent will advise a buyer not to submit an offer if that agent believes the value doesn't fit or there's other reason not to proceed.\n\nBuT a ReALtOr wOuLdnT Say ThAt. Yes, they would. It's not worth squeezing your buyers. Agents aren't immune to the consequences of sleazy practices. They lose business when they do that. I don't understand why people believe these agents just make money and never have to answer for misdeeds. We live in the age of reviews. If there's an agency out there stiffing people like that, they have a very short expiry date.", "Homes are routinely going 100k over asking here in the GTHA where the CBC did their investigation.", "I won’t dispute your experience but I would keep in mind that the commission gets baked into the sale price, so in most circumstances it’s really the buyer whose paying the commission.", "You’re not giving them anything lol, the seller is. And unless you know how to negotiate during due diligence especially, and you’re very educated in residential contracts, then by all means do it yourself", "I find it interesting that on the social media every burnout I knew in high school is all of a sudden a real-estate agent. \n\nPretty telling the profession doesn't have a ethical standing or high entry requirements.", "Just another thing where people get screwed over in US, and in this case Canada. Is there anything that works in favour of citizens in America rather than a company??\n\nAlso If commissions are 3-5% and the real estate agents are getting like $20-60k for a sale then why isn't there like 10,000s of extra real estate agents flooding the industry which should naturally drive the commission down? Or why not 100s of flat rate companies that help you sell the property yourself for like a $5k fee once it sells. Pretty sure I see those advertised a lot in the UK. Some I see costing like a flat £1k to sell your house here.\n\nDoesn't even sound hard for a government agency to fix the issue if they weren't corrupt. Just do what this news crew done and find people breaking the rules and cancel their license. If the fines really are $50k or so then the agency could easily be self funding. Stuff like this should be easy points for the prime minister.", "1.425 million dollars seems like a ridiculous price for a house that size. How do people in Canada even afford to buy homes?", ">I can also grow all my own food\n\nLikely not for less time/money than it would to buy from a supermarket though I imagine. That's the issue, that realtors are getting away with charging much more than they're worth and trying to keep everyone in the industry charging those high prices. Food companies aren't doing that. Half the food many of us eat is even subsidised", "The question of what degree a real estate agent is acting in your best interest was also covered in Freakonomics and is generalized as the [Principal-agent problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_problem).", "They're basically glorified receptionists, and that's an insult to receptionists.", "My parents have had dozens through the house and were under contract in less than a week.\n\n30k extra in their pocket", ">Waiving the inspection is the single worst thing homeowners can do. Unless the buyer is competent enough to do a basic inspection then it should never be skipped.\n\nSold my house in Jan 2020 and the buyer waived inspection, what a dumb move, I was ready to take like 10k off the price because something had to be broke with that house. Roof was old as shit, the AC was old. We also had the contract let US out based on the inspection and somehow that got the buyer all worked up and they waived it.", "25% of homes in my city are pure cash sales. Many are sight unseen. Sorry if it’s too blanket for you maybe you’re an actuary or something and needed an exact figure but really it was a figure of speech. But to say there’s no upside to waiving inspection you’re wrong. If the cost of getting your offers shut down and having to your for a year is worth less than the cost of typical repairs you’d have to pay then that’s the upside. When you’re buying a house for 2 million a new AC or window repair is a rather small expense compared to the 100k that house price is going to inflate if you don’t get in the market.", "[These guys](https://duproprio.com/en) are very popular around here. They offer packages with different levels of exposure and support for privately selling your house for a few 100's.\n\nYou see a bunch of these signs everywhere now.", "I made out like a fucking bandit because it turned out that the house was in litigation between the kids. Nobody was up there for months because the listing agent took the worst photos imaginable I offered 50k less than asking…. And I wanted all the tools in the detached garage. They came back only asking for 5k more. If they had sat on this house for a bit longer, it’d be worth 70% more now if I were to sell. Which I don’t think I ever will.", "You can have a professional inspect a house for a few hundred dollars. No need for an agent.", "If it was worth it to you, don't overthink it, this is what they're there for. On the other hand, not everyone is comfortable forking over tens of thousands of dollars for professional referrals and off market listings.", "I'd be willing to do the leg work from the buyer side, but seller generally controls that and they wrap the cost into the price of the home.\nHaving no buyer agent can also disqualify you against other seller agent.", "Checking in from Utah. 6% 3 to each side seems to be the standard here.", "Dude with avg prices now around a million what sort of value are they providing to be paid $25,000-$50,000?!", "Dude, paying 50k for what?\n\nApparently nothing.", "real estate agents seem like the most useless job ever. In my country most of them can't even make proper listing online. All the do is just open the property and make stuff up. I guess there is few good ones, but seems like really useless job. Just list the property online and sell it as any other thing.", "A fair question indeed. Canadians specialize in paying more for less. Housing, mobile phones, Kinder Morgan pipeline, federal Fiberals. BC NDP, the list goes on", "They don't provide $50k worth of effort though\n\nThat's a year salary for a sale of a house they barely do anything with", "Off topic, but watching this without sound was really funny at the 7:18 mark. I can only assume that there was some voice-over here. \"Smash cut to making copies\" was just very sudden and made me laugh a little.", "Atleast where I'm from (NY) buyers dont pay their brokers, the seller does. So you get a valuable service if you dont have much time for free.", "50k for a few days work, maybe a week worth of work\n\nYep, sounds like that real estate agent is charging a fair amount /s\n\nGet fucked. This shit is disgusting and pairs with more predatory practices", "but you would have to trust them the inspection is correct and not just fakes so they make a sale.", "You're right on that one, it reads as though I mean it can't happen or there's no reason and that's my bad. Especially in the current American and local market it's prevalent. Just dispensing with it with no need to though is absurd", "Its a negotiated price, in hot seller markets like today you can cut that in half.", "CBC Marketplace does some of the best investigative journalism. I love their exposès like this.", "Realtors aren’t some invincible, omnipresent force sure but I had a bad experience with a seller agent and went to Zillow to leave a bad review and it was removed by moderators because the agent was not my direct agent. Immune to bad reviews? You betcha. You can’t take your business elsewhere really because realtors are part of the same racket and operate with the same shitty rules. Realtor key lockboxes are basically the only thing keeping it together.", "You mention the free market and setting prices, in this same free market people are entitled to scoff and think these prices are stupid", "Do you know how expensive it is to get sued for misrepresenting your knowledge of the property or unintentionally omitting material facts? Not only that but read the statistics: realtors sell your home for 7-10% more than a FSBO does. So sure you pay the realtor a little more but you walk away with, on average, 5-8% more than you would have in addition to: not dealing with unqualified buyers, making sure someone who knows the laws is preparing paperwork for you, handling negotiations, calling the other side’s lies, fielding phone calla regarding interest, marketing, the list goes on! Realtors are under appreciated and comments like yours prove it. Do you even realize how much that commission is split up? The commission you see on the closing statements IS NOT what the realtor puts in their pocket. I see so many FSBO’s try to talk like they know what they’re doing. Then I see they sell their house for 10% less than what I would have gotten them but they know they’re the winner because they saved 2% on commission. Ha.\n\nDownvote all you want. I guarantee that if you’re in the other side of a transaction against me, my client is walking away with a better deal than you negotiate for yourself.", "I bet you offer under list price, don’t you? In CA, at least, the buyer doesn’t even pay the realtor so it makes no sense not to use one in CA. You really think you know market trends better than realtors? What, because you looked at a home prices on Zillow?", "Using an agent as a buyer costs you nothing.", "Times have changed unfortunately. Houses are going under contract before being listed / 10+ offers on the first day, etc. I agree 3% is high, but agents are hugely important if not required in todays market.", "[ Jump to 07:18 @ Real estate agents caught breaking the law on hidden camera (Marketplace)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBvRe0Jv68&t=0h7m18s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: CBC News, Video Length: [21:53])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@07:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBvRe0Jv68&t=0h7m13s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "That's not at all what a real estate agents duty is, and you should not trust one who does such things. They're opening themselves to lawsuits without proper licensing.", "We sold ourselves as well and the buyers agent tried twice to put themselves in as our agent in the paperwork. Something to watch for!\n\nWe told him no and we didn’t need him to represent us. Then he sent in their papers with himself listed as our agent and taking 2% on the seller side in addition to his buyer compensation. I removed that from the documents and sent it back. He added it again later when they sent some amendments. I’m glad I caught it. Complete asshole move trying to take advantage of us selling on our own. If we hadn’t needed to sell it quickly I would have told the buyer to get lost and tell them their agent ruined the deal for them.", "Tbh I would rather that money stick with the seller than give it to an agent for forwarding emails.", "Did I strike a nerve? \n\nIt’s because I know a bunch of real estate agents and I know what they do and they don’t offer any value add to me or I would argue a majority of people outside of a few select situations.", "Not the point, I don’t think they should get 18k for letting me into a house to tour it and forwarding emails. \n\nI would in all honesty rather that money go to the seller.", "The seller won't get it anyway if they've listed with an agent.", "We gave our budget to a realtor (250k-350k) and he kept showing us houses that where 500k-600k. After the 3rd or 4th house I got mad at him and he told me I could easily afford it. Fuck off. My girlfriend did all the research after that and whenever we called to visit a house that had a realtor they where always super sketchy, lying and didn’t know anything about the house. The best ones where always the ones sold by the owner.", "This thing I know nothing about could disappear... The ignorance here is hilarious.", "I’ll give you that. A broker open house can get a home under contract before it’s listed", "Just a question, how many houses have you bought and sold? Just wondering.", "When is the last time you bought a home?", "Face palm. Nobody in here knows what they're talking about. It's so bad it's not even worth explaining.", "In my area commission is traditionally split 3/3 for a total of 6%. Knocking that down to 1/3 or even 1/1 depending on the agent they used is a big win. I used a 1% sell side agent to keep as much in my pocket as I could when selling.", "3/2", "In Canada the legal documents are usually done and signed at a notary", "What a shock. This is news, really? Realtors are a powerful lobby. Good luck enforcing any action.", "Where I am most agents won't take a listing for less than 4% total. Which then gets split between the two involved agents according to the percentage defined in the listing contract.", "Then I’m kind of confused why your shitting on realtors. When buying and selling at multiple times and dealing with contingencies, lease backs and getting dates lined up it’s kind of hard to do yourself when so many other parties are involved. I’ve bought 4 houses sold 3, bought raw land and have bought some rentals and a pine farm. Have used a realtor in all of them. Some of these transactions can get really messy especially when buying an income property.", "\\they're", "I almost understood this kind of behavior not getting any attention 15 years ago when a house was 100-200k, so commissions were only a couple thousand dollars... but with how much houses have sky rocketed, especially in the last 5 years... 1% can be 5-10k so it's sort of insane to me that this doesn't get more attention.", "Doesn't really seem surprising to me that this happens if the system is setup to incentivize it. That's probably how it needs to be dealt with, at least from a completely ignorant point or view.", "Yep. Keep in mind, you have actual real-estate agents, and then you have the bored, my kids just got into college types who take the job because they think it's easy money.\n\nWe have the same issue in IT, some people just assume they get the certification/degree and things will work out without them actually putting effort in or learning much.", "Almost all those things happened to me. In my state if you are represented by a broker the agents cant ask to represent you since you are technically represented. I faced steering quite a bit and if it weren't for zillow and Redfin I don't think Id have seen so many potential buyers. I only offered 1% commision. 100% of the realtors I met were absolute garbage humans. Just terrible people and almost all of them simply lied about various things. I called them out every time. It was great to see them faced with an informed seller who knew his shit. The backpedaling and doubling down on the lie was fun to watch albeit irritating. I am still getting calls many months after selling my house. I had many realtors call me and try to convince me my house was over priced and I absolutely needed them to sell. I saved a massive amount of money and I also sold it for 15K over asking. My advice is that you can do it yourself with some self study, diligence, and a good lawyer to review all the contracts. Most of the contracts are pretty standard and you and your lawyer can alter any contract to suit you. Fuck agents. I haven't met a single kine who isn't a scumbag.", "Most houses aren’t $1,000,000.", "That's what I am going to demand. If you want the listing then get us the next house. If you can't get us in a house then bye. Everyone wants the listing but no one is bringing us the same in kind.", "Jfc, I'm surprised you didn't report the agent for that.", "We self represented when we bought our house in a hot area and gave the buyers commission to the seller as an incentive. The forms in our state are all public just find or buy a good PDF editor. In my opinion a buying agent is only useful if you don’t want to research houses and neighborhoods. A selling agent is debatable on the same lines, do you want to do work or pay someone. Always get a good inspector and a good title company, in the end they are your only protection.", "Ridiculous!", "When is the last time you bought a house?", "My realtor was worth her weight in gold. Gave honest feedback on houses, builders, quality, neighborhoods, etc etc. She landed us in a perfect neighborhood that I would have never thought of looking in. \n\nRedditors love to pretend they know all industries and markets when half the people on this site have probably never bought or sold a home.", "So just hire a flat rate real estate attorney, who are way cheaper and usually more* knowledgeable on legal requirements than a commissioned agent", "Your telling me my agent that forwarded Zillow links and filled out a boiler plate offer letter didn’t deserve 5% of my inflated purchase price?", "Agent here. Fucking 100%. They are entitled to their wrong opinions though.", "You should look up the $250 fine they get when they break the law!\n\nHe just made 40 grand by being unethical and here is a $250 fine. Don't do it again!\n\nThis industry needed to be revamped 20 years ago!", "Residential contracts as in pre-printed forms and clauses? Please... A monkey can put the forms together!", "All most inspector will do is 1) tell you \"it's old\" and 2) fire up the AC and confirm a 15 degree temp differential between return and supply. A really good one miiiight testing it's run current to see if it might be close to seizing up. An awesome one might confirm state of charge (aka no leaks) \n\nProblem is, it can test within specs today and be going tomorrow.\n\nI should clarify, there ARE other tests to be run, but no inspector will perform them. For anything more you need to hire a dedicated HVAC technician. No agent will suggest that and you'd have to ask for it, maybe insist on it. Because in the end, the cost probably isn't worth the risk unless you suspect a problem.\n\nBig picture, if you REALLY want a home inspected correctly for the big items you need to hire someone for each of the trades: roof, HVAC, Electrical, Plumbing, Structural/foundation. I'm not trying to put down any qualified and dedicated inspector, but even ignoring any conflicts of interest, they just can't possibly be as qualified as an actual working dedicated tradesman. But that gets pricey and takes time to coordinate so you have to decide what's a risk (usually based on age) and what you're willing to accept to self-insure.", "It's the same with buying. There are a ton of local realtors that basically won't serve a customer if it's not a cash offer. And don't even think about trying if you're getting down payment assistance, last time I tried that every realtor I called just hung up.", "This will probably be buried because it runs against the \"how hard could it be? I can sell houses I live in one everyday\" groupthink.\nWhere I'm at realtors are paid 1.5% per side (3% paid in total). Transactions are complex with a ton of legal requirements. The market is very competitive. Properties can sometimes get multiple offers the day they go live.\n\nOn the selling side a good realtor (sure there are hacks) will properly market and negotiate to get you the most money. Way more than their 1.5% They know how to maximize the value. Good staging. Experienced photographers. What repairs to do or not do.They'll also help you not get sued.Which happens a lot for owner sellers. Sure you can sell the house. It's totally doable but you end up leaving money in the table.\n\nOn the buying side they'll get you prepared for buying. Help steer you away from minefields of bad local zonings or problem houses. But finally they'll get you a house in competitive markets for less. Do you think you can negotiate a good deal against someone who does it every day? Do you think you'll actually save 1.5% negotiating yourself?\n\nFinally if the other side is represented by a represented by a realtor. They way prefer to work with another realtor. Because if the other side isn't a professional the realtor on the side has to hold their hand and educate them and do a ton of extra work. All while not stepping out of the well defined legal lanes they have to stay in to advocate for their clients", "This is a position of almost pure ignorance. While the ergonomics of executing a real estate transaction are streamlined there are a whole host of other items of value brokers add. It’s the largest transaction most folks ever undertake and there are a number of ways they can go sideways. Sure not everyone needs a broker, but the good ones earn their value from their clients and most have repeat business.", "That technically is the way it is. Almost all \"buyer's agents\" are actually seller sub-agents, compensated out of the seller's commission. The seller gets 6% (e.g.) then forwards 2-3 of those to the buyer's agent. Their commission is guaranteed by their listing agreement. If you come to the table without a buyer's agent, theoretically they could kick back the commission to you (unless prohibited by law), but chances are that isn't going to happen.", "i wonder why people can't just take this shit to federal or provincial court. why do we keep letting the industry regulate itself? fucking ridiculous.", "Agreed, by far the best show CBC puts out", "Ooh, my favorite argument. It’s not free for the buyer. Adding transactional costs increases costs for everyone. A seller would obviously sell for less to a buyer if they didn’t lose six percent on the price.", "I paid 400 out of pocket to hire specifically an HVAC technician to give me a realistic picture of if I would need to replace the AC unit. This HVAC tech only did HVAC work. He was recommended to me by my real estate agent.", "Found one", "Our last agent was extremely helpful because the buyer’s agent was incompetent and probably would have tanked the deal.", "It’s not. The price is backed with an appraisal if the buyer is using financing. The appraisal doesn’t take into account whether or not commissions are paid. FSBO’s are not listing their home 5% below comps because they are not paying an agent.", "it's the same way in the states. I was a realtor for a year and got out because it felt dirty. \n\nThis will never change because the National Association of Realtors is a very wealthy lobbying group.", "In Ontario if you mention the word inspection during the home buying process you'll get laughed out of the country.", "I know this video is in Canada, but I'm certain I experienced similar while attempting to purchase a house earlier this year, also, it looks like the average fee is 6% here. I'd be sent the MLS listings each day and though she would respond in minutes on most of them, around 25% of the houses I voiced interest would garnish no reply from her at all and if I brought up the house in question at a later date, she'd brush it off and/or pretend like it was nothing. Definitely was puzzling to me. She'd constantly try to steer me towards houses that were close to 300K though I made it clear my budget was in the 220K max. Felt like I was was put on the back burner a lot.\n\nThen of course came the offer amount and my agent was always quick to direct me to offer around 15% over list price \"to be competitive\". Though I don't doubt it was necessary consider how the market was this year, I can't help but feel like this is a conflict of interest. The more I pay, the more she makes, thus it is in her best interest for me to pay more for the house than its possibly worth. The original $6600 commission on the 220K house turns into $7600 if I pay 253K for it.\n\nFeel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. The more I deal with and learn about the real estate agent industry, the more I hate them.", "Lol, sellers gain and your loss 🤷🏻‍♂️", "I’m selling my home for $300k with an agent. Go ahead and send me an offer and I’ll rate you on your negotiation tactics.", "Don’t need to watch this to know that Real Estate Agency is one of the biggest Scams in America today.", "And where is the seller getting that money from? It's money you're paying extra.\nOn a 500k home I'd rather both seller and buyer leave with a few grand extra than pay someone just to send a few e-mails.", "I'm very cynical, but I'm not usually this cynical ... and yet this entire thread should tell you your fatal mistake was your last sentence. \n\nAnd yet, even the best HVAC tech can't say for sure how much longer a system will last. And I can't vouch for which tests were run.\n\nIn your other comment you said, \"... but the AC was pretty much held together with duct tape to get the sale to go forward.\" So the tech was incompetent or in-cahoots or both. [shrug]", "especially since the Real Estate agent takes NO risk in the transaction. They're not on the hook for the seller, buyer, not even the bank. It seems like some of the easiest money to make in this world where you look for properties online rather than inquire directly with a realtor.", "Well the problem is pretty dam clear. Conflict of interest. Agents pay directly related to price of the selling property. Under the current environment the buyers agent is incentivized to have there clients spend more. It doesn’t take a genius to see putting flat rates for buying and selling agents is the way. How much is fair don’t know, but I doubt an agent is providing more then 10k in value for most properties.", "It’s a catch 22\n\nSays at the end Joann sold her house near asking no agents involved.\n\nThat’s a very particular buyer. \n\nShe saved the commission, but since there was no additional offers, she took it. \n\nHad she listed with an agent - it could have attracted more buyers/offers, and the offer price would have gone up.\n\nWould this have been enough to offset the commission? I dunno, but it’s certainly worth considering.", "I did not see this was from CBC or any indication from the preview screen it was Canadian before clicking, and yet my first instinct was \"I bet this is in Toronto/GTA\"", "They obviously shouldnt replace the inspection, but how is finding major, dealbreaking undisclosed issues a problem? And how else would one assure oneself of quality when/where sellers are only accepting offers that waive inspection?", "Imo they are like travel agents. Most don't need them anymore, but in certain situations they can be immensely helpful - say you are completely unfamiliar with the area / language / culture etc they can help navigate that. Why they are paid with a percentage when housing costs have inflated 500% in my lifetime I'm not sure.", "Lol that's funny no one discloses anything here and realtors are willing participants. There really is not that much to buying or selling a house and paying a lawyer $1500 will keep you in the clear on everything. The contract for my mobile phone was longer and more complicated than the contract my realtor provided for the last home I bought. I won't be using a realtor again, there really isn't that much to it.", "Bingo. There's a reason lawyers are still a part of the process... Because anything actually important the realtors aren't responsible for. In fact, let's take this opportunity to remind ourselves that realtors carry no liability or responsibility at all for their service.", "Canada is similar, standard 2.5% for each agent however you can negotiate with the selling agent.", "Agents don’t just forward emails though…", "Opens themselves to litigation if they say too much and misrepresent their role. Not as dangerous when you are convincing someone to back out, rather than convincing them on how much a fix could be, etc. This point is drilled home in real estate agents if education requirements are decent in their state.", "When the HVAC guy I hired to replace it three months later, when I had to use it on settings that would cause it strain, he opened the unit and showed me what condition it was in. Not duct tape but it was obvious from what I saw (rust, the exterior had never been cleared of debris so a lot of debris had built up). It was obvious to even me, someone who doesn't work in HVAC, the outdoor unit hadn't been maintained in years, if ever. \n\nAlso, the water heater made a popping noise when in use. He put this, verbatim on the inspection report \"water heater makes popping noise\".\n\nAt the time I didn't bother to Google that but Googling it pulls up results immediately. He didn't say that it indicated sediment just that it made a popping noise.\n\nHe was definitely in cahoots because I would have asked to have the heater thoroughly checked if I knew there was sediment.", "Just yesterday the HS burnout that became a real estate agent was posting about how he was moving to Texas because CA is fascist, or something along those lines.\n\nDude, you went to one of the best public HS in the nation and had every opportunity. Maybe spending time in class and going to college would have been a better idea than your career in MLM schemes, time shares, crypto and now real estate.", "You're on the wrong end of this. As the seller it's super advantageous to use real estate agents because their services are for free. We gave our agent our price point and what we wanted and she found 30 homes that met our needs an scheduled visits, we bought after seeing out 18th home.\n\nThe problem isn't that agents are incentivized by a system to only show homes that will net them a profit and then you have a law coming around saying you can't do it. It's like if you had to cross the street but didn't want to walk 5 minutes to the nearest crosswalk. You could make as many jaywalking laws as you can, people are going to travel based on what incentives are present.", "These days in the Netherlands, you only have to tell a few people you're planning to sell your house and potential buyers will be lining down the block. Often offering 50-100k over the asking price too.\n\nYou don't need a real estate agent for anything here. They actual contracts are done by notaries (called Notary Public in the US I guess?) anyway, so you just pay those a few hundred Euro.", "Yes, the CBC decided to make propaganda against the real estate industry. Uh huh.\n\nIf you were Canadian, you'd realize how dumb you sound. Good grief.", "Which is all why parties are better off hiring a real estate attorney to handle the contracts instead of having a realtor use their fill-in-the-blanks forms. Much cheaper, and you’re getting someone far more competent to do the work. \n\nI have done many, many deals this way.", "Absolutely should have. A scammer like that should not have a license.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sEbSyAkQnw&ab_channel=TheSimpsonsLegacy", "> As the seller it's super advantageous to use real estate agents because their services are for free. \n\nTheir services are paid for by the seller, not the buyer, so definitely not free.", "I guess that depends on what type of transaction it is and what attorney you get. Attorney’s won’t handle coordinating with others just work with you. Not saying realtors are warranted for all transactions but to discount them from all transactions is a little asinine. If you are just doing 1 transaction and both of you are level headed I can see just hiring an attorney but in my experience both parties being level headed is usually rare at least in Nashville where it’s a sellers market and everyone is extremely competitive.", "That list of which houses are for sale are primarily populated by the real estate agents. It is getting easier to sell a home without an agent, but not much. You are referring to a buyer's agent. They're generally free for the buyer to use.", "And an unknown sales price if they had gotten more interest. Sometimes it works out great, some may be leaving more on the table than they are saving from the agent.", "Usually doesn't work that way. You doubled the seller's agent commission.", "Y’all don’t have commissions listed in your sales contract?", "We need TL:DR video summary bot for these American style format shows that explain things at an excruciatingly slow pace", "I noticed this too and recently within the past three or four years as the price of houses has gone up. Same thing happens in 2008 and all those people ended up jobless.", "Contingent on inspection and appraisal being high enough.", "Yes we do. It always states the entire sales commission goes to the seller's agent and they are responsible for distribution to the buyer's agent. The buyer's agent contract states a minimum amount that they are guaranteed from a purchase, usually 2-2.5% and if the commission provided by the seller's agent is insufficient, then the buyer agrees to pay the difference.", "Why not? I thought sellers pay the commission to the agents. (I'm new to this)", "TIL people use buyers agents in North America.", "You just be a real estate agent...", "Our buyer’s agent was on the ball 24/7, and I mean that literally. The house we ended up buying was originally accepting offers for a week and then the 2nd day (same day we did a walkthrough) they said they were choosing an offer that night. My agent was up and talking to their agent, us, and our mortgage consultant at 11:30pm Sunday on a holiday weekend to get our offer in. I can say 100% that we wouldn’t have gotten this home without someone that dedicated.\n\nAll this to say, they charge a premium so make sure yours is providing a premium service.", "I've also been to a notary several times, and every time they just say \"All I do is tell you where to sign\". They might have some passing understanding, but it isn't their job to know such things.\n\nYou may have had a very specialized notary. But when you think about how many different types of documents people may use a notary for, expecting them to have intimate understanding of all those laws and regulations is a bit silly.", "when I bought I thought about getting my real estate license just so I could go and let myself in. I wanted to see everything in the area, I didn't have a deadline, and that seemed to be the main thing an agent did.", "Nope, just bought and sold property and have friends doing the same. There is an entire industry looking for those types of sales to flip them and take the additional profit.", "In a market like it is, its almost a full time job trying to line up and organize showings because constant movement. Contracts also get real crazy to make sure everything is correctly how you want it.", "You don't have rightmove? \n\nComplete ubiquitous in the UK, everyone sets up their own alerts.", "That could very well be federal charges. Fraud, mail fraud, etc.", ">Do you know how expensive it is to get sued for misrepresenting your knowledge of the property or unintentionally omitting material facts\n\nNo, almost all listings in every state I live say \"buyer to verify\". All the forms are standard templates (WB-40, etc, etc). What you're describing, it's complete garbage and there's a reason Redfin et. al are making traditional agents go the way of the travel agent.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Then I see they sell their house for 10% less than what I would have gotten them but they know they’re the winner because they saved 2% on commission.\n\nThere are a variety of FSBO sites that will show you the solds. You can actually check this at home. Pull up some comps and compare. It's generally not true...", "That's what a home inspector is for...", "I feel like that situation will be settled by attorneys, not real estate agents. What would they even do for that situation?", "Yeah, straight up no on that one. Your shitty experience is not indicative. Zillow is a known shit bag company, second only to FSBO nightmares. I try not to judge but you advertise your foolishness by assuming the tapestry from a single thread. Classic shit really", "How technology hasn't made their job redundant, I don't know.", "\"You'll never book that trip without a travel agent\"", "The house is listed for 1.475 mil and she is whining about the standard commission, I can't say I have any sympathy for her.", "Your realtor isn't knowledgeable. No further words needed.", "In actuality you would be a fool to accept an inspection prepared by someone not at arms length with the realtor. The entire real estate agent works at odds with the buyers interest. Pump the price of the house up as high as possible.", "Oh you proved your point. Real estate professionals have a sterling reputation and a bad experience must be unique to me..", "Not in DC for the last two years. Most of the time you are inspecting before you write an offer because the market is so competitive sellers won’t accept offers with contingencies.", "Not true in some highly competitive places.", "In my city, there is nothing under $1,000,000.", "No one can MAKE an agent sell a home. This “exposé’ is nothing more than sensationalism to make yourself appear important. If the seller wants to offer a percentage for selling that falls far below what others are willing to pay, that’s most certainly her prerogative. HOWEVER, to suggest this is “steering” is simply a lie. IF, and ONLY IF, a buyer tells an agent they want to look at that seller’s property, then the agent has a duty to do so. The agent does NOT have to promote this property in any way other than “good faith”. Whether you or I think an agent’s standard commission is irrelevant.", "Buyer's agents have to work hard in a low inventory seller's market. Not only do you have to find the right home for picky clients, but they can put in a great offer and still lose the buy since people are paying crazy numbers over listing.", "the problem isn't just agents though. You're absolutely right about success relying on who you know and what you look like versus what you know, but the public reinforces that standard. \n\nWhen the sexy idiot gets picked over the educated agent, they ruin the reputation of other agents and at the same time inspire other sexy idiots to get licensed. The industry is dying and the association of realtors is doing a horrible job of protecting the standards and image of the business.", "> \n> \n> \n> \n> She got an inspection. Handed me a list of things to fix. It was a couple minor electrical things. I sent her photos of the new breakers installed. We went ahead with the sell. \n\nShould have left it in with a negative number, make him pay you to participate.", "I agree, but sometimes FSBOs do cause problems for buyers. Not saying they shouldn’t be considered, but FSBOs can have a lot of issues due to the inexperience of the seller.", "Walk you through the process and handle some of the tedious parts for you (paperwork and back-and-forth with the seller). They can refer people such as inspectors and handymen, and they might keep you from being taken advantage of and/or help you to figure out what you really want.\n\nIt was nice as a first-time buyer, not sure if I would do it again.", "When we sold and bought our new home, we used an agent (also happened to be a buddy of mine). He asked us our budget, what we were looking for, and in what areas. He found listings for us and set up the viewings. We would also look for houses and send them to him. \nWhen we found what we wanted (and when we listed our house), he handled all the paperwork and handled all the negotiations. The buyer for our house wanted us to “fix” a bunch of things that weren’t broken. Basically they just wanted us to lower the cost. Our agent flat out told them no, and advised us not to budge. \nAnother thing he did was before we listed our house, he did a walkthrough and helped us with ideas for how to stage it. Basically, here are some things to remove while showing it to make it feel less cluttered and less personalized so potential buyers can picture themselves in the house. \nHe also setup getting photos of the house and drone shots of the property. \n\nIt really depends on your agent. Some really just do the paperwork for you, good ones sort of hold your hand through the process.", "They are in New Zealand. Average house price is 1mil", "They got to know inheritance law, real estate and marriage very specifically in detail. It's not a specialized one, just the town notary. Perhaps notaries have different mandates where you live?", "Opendoor is the disruptor. They are making transacting on a home easy/simple/fast, bringing liquidity to your home where you can sell/buy in a few days time. They also sport an NPS score of 70+ which means customers love their service.", "This happens across almost any market that has commission sales. From brands being split or copied into different names. To pushing people into a less quality products just because the company earns more. \nI feel like this is only for the high end markets. Also don't know how I feel about the seller being upset about a $21,000 loss on $1,400,000 that she had wear and tear on & definitely bought for less than 1.4mil.", "Sold a house recently in a hot market and in a very hot neighborhood. We first listed FSBO but that didn’t get us exposure to the MLS and didn’t really give us Zillow exposure, so we used a site that charges a flat $600 to list on MLS and everything else would be handled by us. We had no calls come through and showed to only two or three couples who saw our listing by walking through the neighborhood. We eventually (and reluctantly) used an agent and she told us that we were black listed because we used one of those no-agent sites to get on MLS. We were pretty pissed but there wasn’t much we could do because we needed to sell.", "Who’s in NZ? The video takes place Ontario, Canada, where the median price is over $1MM, but that’s not most markets.", "They absolutely do carry liability, if you have an agent without errors and omission insurance they could be in for a world of hurt, and so could you.", "As a non American, it's so weird to know that two agents are \"required\" for a home purchase. One or none should be enough.", "yea its a pretty common thing here. I'm assuming it's not a thing where you might be?..mate?", "Agent’s sell their clients homes and the homes listed by their agency. You have to ask them to specifically show a home that they do not have listed. This means that the buyers need to search MLS. The agents do not have to.", "Yeah when I bought my place in Australia I just contacted the seller's agent to organise the inspection and requested the sale of contract. Sent the contract to a solicitor/property conveyancer to review and to act of my behalf throughout the purchase process which generally costs between $700 - $1,000. Spent another couple hundred bucks on a building inspection. \n\nOnce I was ready to put in an offer I just started negotiating with their agent until we came to an agreement and they sent me the contract of sale to sign off on.", "Lol- just sold my house in a week. I did pay a 3% commission to the buyers agent but no way was I giving away another $23k to list it. \nI have security camera in the house in a few outside of the house or with microphones. It was crazy to listen to a few of the agents and how stupid they are.", "As an Aussie, that was some of the best investigative journalism I've seen. Well done Americans.", "Imagine my sympathy for someone who owns a $1,500,000 home.", "So real estate agents are essentially surveyors in America?", "If I've learned anything in life, it's that people really don't like to learn anything in life.", "> the average sale that has no broker representing the seller sells for about 20% less in Seattle.\n\nFeels more like you need to drop the listing by 20% to find a buyer willing to buy without a realtor or twist their realtors arm, not that the realtor added 20% value to the listing.", "That was a good agent, I`ve worked with a couple good agents..yeah home inspectors are supposed to do this but they miss stuff sometimes, in this case your agent saved your time, why bother with an offer", "They really isn’t on the real estate agent those type of issues. Any decent one would of made sure you got the $400 warranty", "This is part of the scheme: you have a system where one party pays everything and immediately you eliminate half the people who would want the system to change. In fact you even get the buyers to advocate for you because the agent would say exactly what you are saying, why would you care. In reality most people go through at least one round trip in their lifetime so everyone should care. This is like hospital charging high fees and normalize the thinking that the patient isn’t paying so why be upset over the high prices.", "I saw this a few months ago, I don't remember the particulars of the numbers, just did a refresher. \n\n$75,000 being 5% commission average means comparable selling the house for $1,500,000. \n\nShe's offering only 1% commission at $14,000 selling price is then $1,400,000.\n\n\nWe know she got near asking, not over. So we can assume she's under in this private sale. It was an old listing. \n\nHere's how it works out:\n\n\| Listing Method \| Listing Price \| Commission Percent \| Commission Cost \| Owner Receives \| \n\| :--: \| :--: \| :--: \| :--: \| :--: \|\n\| Grimy Realtor \| $1,500,000 \| 5% \| $75,000 \| $1,425,000 \|\n\| Joann's scheme w agents \| $1,400,000 \| 1% \| $14,000 \| $1,386,000 \|\n\| Joann's actual scheme \| <$1,400,000 \| NONE \| NONE \| <$1,400,000 \|\n\nIn both cases she still edged ahead with the grimy, sleazy, realtor. $25,000 - $39,000+.\n\nOn the flip side, from the standpoint of equity in the home. She really didn't do anything to make the house better. She's in her 60s. So likely bought that house in the 80s or 90s when it was around $100,000. It appreciated up to $1.5m just by virtue of location and the market. And she's going after what amounts to table scraps.", "Where I live, 1.1 will get you a small run down cottage, if you're lucky.", "What causes a realtor sale to be 7-10% higher than FSBOs? The fact that commission is less should make the price lower, as there’s less middle men involved. Like you said 7-10% lower is still worse for the buyer than saving 2-3% on commissions though.\n\nThe video is literally saying realtors won’t let buyers know of or actively shit on FSBO houses for no good reason. If an FSBO has this happen to them and isn’t sure what’s going on (has to be common), they’re gonna lower the price. That sounds like plenty of reason for sales to be 7-10% lower, realtors collectively screwing buyers who don’t want to pay exorbitant commissions.\n\nWith a unique house and less comparables, a realtor makes 100% sense. Also if the seller is busy and doesn’t want to spend all the extra time it does too.\n\nIf you have a very similar home to others, or condo, it makes less sense and the commission cost can be prohibitive.", "And it's very likely she bought it at $100,000 and appreciated into $1.5 million with no real work needed by way of upgrades. They showed the inside, it wasn't modern done.", "I had this idea once for a non-profit brokerage that undercut the 5% commission and then proceeds went to support affordable housing.", "Yea that’s a good point too, not knowing an area you can make a big mistake.", "Well even if you did the math, she didn't hit asking. She didn't hit asking, was charging below market ($1.4m) we know because she was offering 1% ($14k) vs the 5% ($75k) at comparable price ($1.5m). She ended up net losing $25,000 - best case scenario. \n\nAgain in a house she didn't upgrade, and likely just rode the appreciation from $100,000 to $1.3?m", "My buddy did FSBO and went over asking. It took 2 months though. So it worked greatly in his favor. \n\nCongrats on your end for working it the right way too.", "Why would a seller give up 6% for literally no reason? If the buyer is willing to pay for 100% then the seller is going to sell for 100%.", "You will find in a given area there's the big dick realtor that move most of the property, the big dicks usually have agents working for them. They only deal with other big dicks. The little dick realtors are feeding on the scraps. Occasionally a little dick pulls a sneaky fucker and get a sale.\n\nThis is based on my experience hiring a little dick discount realtor and my property sitting for month, hired the big dick sold in a week. and the the little dick realtor admitted thats how the game is played. So basically what you see in the video.", "In California 5% is standard\n\n2.5 to sellers brokerage, 2.5 to buyers brokerage. Not the agent, but the company they work for\n\nThen the agent gets some percent of that\n\nThen taxes\n\nI agree that agents get too much for what they do, however for a $1 million sale, an agent is going to get between $10-15k when all is said an done. \n\nIt’s a lot of money, yes, but considering they may work for months if not a year or more it’s not as crazy as it seems. \n\nHOWEVER, when the house is crazy expensive then yes, it can be silly", "Would you rather hire a real estate or a lawyer when your deal goes south attempting to do it all yourself?", "Are you trying to defend the clearly illegal practices of these agents looking out for their commission instead of their client?", "Door to door sales man....", "Yet.... it cost 6% to sale/buy a house. The fact we still can’t just do it all ourselves on google is just a scam.", ">The real issue here is that becoming a real estate agent is RIDICULOUSLY easy. The test is a joke.\n\nIt's funny you mention that because one of my job functions is proctoring tests for people. I have never seen a person pass the Nevada real estate test on their first try.\n\nI don't know if it's overconfidence or what, but I have reached the point with some of our repeat test takers that I feel guilty taking their money for a 5th attempt at the test.", "I'm quitting my job as an analyst to begin a new career in real estate and now these comments are making me feel bad. :(", "I've been a Realtor for almost 20 years. In my experience, the majority of agents are out of the business in less than 10 months and over 80% in less than 5 years. The barrier of entry is incredibly small. A few classes and a test. The Realtor associations make an incredible amount of money from member count and nothing will ever change that. The Realtor association lobbies Congress more than any other industry outside of the pharmaceutical industry. With all that said a great Realtor can save you or make you many many thousands of dollars. Do your research and hire a pro.", "That's certainly possible.\n\nBecause I've used them for immigration, business forms, real estate forms. I just wouldn't expect someone who isn't a lawyer to have any real expertise in all these areas.", "Apologies. I don't follow. Please explain?", "Who gives a shit, if homes didn't appreciate not many people would bother with a 25 year mortgage.\n\nGood luck going to view houses and saying \"Well I saw you bought it for 30% less 10 years ago so I'll only pay that\", enjoy being homeless.", "Same shit different country, happens in Malaysia too.", "So? If you think real estate agents are scoffing at $14k, do you think they'll give a shit about your $400k home?", "Are you a lawyer? Because the actual lawyer in the video says otherwise, and purposely not showing homes they genuinely believe their client would like because the commission is too low, is illegal there, or at least, against the ethics code they prescribe to.\n\n> IF, and ONLY IF, a buyer tells an agent they want to look at that seller’s property, then the agent has a duty to do so\n\nNot true according to the lawyer, yet still there's two examples of that and the agent making excuses as to why they can't show it. Maybe you should watch the video before commenting.", "First of all, as a buyer you don’t pay the agent, the seller does (both buyer and seller agent fees) on closing.\n\nSecond, an agent should have a more updated list than you’re looking at. They have access to an MLS which tells them if properties are on/off the market because of recent offers and what not. This can help significantly in your home search, if time is of the essence.\n\nLastly, a good agent should help you…for so many things…have good attorney options for you; have good inspector options for you; good broker and lender options; question if the property is a good fit because of your requests (property list), etc.\n\nAgents don’t get paid hourly, good one’s are in it for the long haul. They want to make you happy in your new home decision. Future and repeat business comes from the dedication.\n\nEdit: after going through the posts, this whole thread seems like it’s sponsored by online real estate organizations. 🙄", "Wrong", "Yes, but with almost no inventory they are lucky to get 2-3 sales per year in many areas.", "Real estate agents are scum.", "Also because the only skill you really need is lying, and there's very poor regulation on fraud, misrepresentation and whatnot...", "At that point it’s just the price of doing business.", "Do you need an agent to list on Zillow?", "No but if you self list, your house will not show up on the regular Zillow search. It will be under an “other listings” category that home seekers will have to toggle over to. I didn’t even know about that “other listing” toggle until I ran I to this issue, and I was frequently on Zillow.", "Lol another let’s shit on the real estate industry exposé. \n\nFor my American friends you realize the national Association of realtors is one of the largest lobbying organizations in this country. You can’t defeat us. We have more money than you.\n\nYes you can sell and buy a property without us. But it’s better if you don’t lol", "Watch the video, before posting.", "Because the new MLM is real estate. It's called eXp Realty. It's a huge realty company that has you recruit people in your downstream. It's an MLM.", "you know it's shit when they have to put a \"real\" in front of it.", ">association of realtors is doing a horrible job of protecting the standards and image of the business. \n\nThe National Association of Realtors doesn't control the industry. Being a Realtor is optional.", "> say you are completely unfamiliar with the area / language / culture etc they can help navigate that.\n\nTrue, but so could knocking on a few of the neighbors' doors and asking them (with the exception of speaking a completely different language, which would be an extreme exception).", "I'm guessing the reason they didn't send the repair list is because they thought it would complicate, put at risk, or otherwise drag out the transaction. They make their money on deal volume, not on getting you a good value for your money.", "This is when I'd reach out to the prospective buyers and let them know their agent is jeopardizing their deal with these idiotic games.", "We had to report a realtor for showing our house without a confirmed appointment in the spring, in Ontario, during COVID lockdown. Pretty unsettling to come home to realize people had been in your house without notice…", "Ohhh now that you mention I have seen that. It’s under the “for sale by owner” tag or something to that effect.\n\nIt’s pretty scummy to separate them at all considering it wouldn’t matter to a buyer. Different book, same story sounds like.", "It’s a lovely idea, but will only work with transparency. As long as “agents” hold access to data they gatekeep and they’ll do it desperately as most know listing access and the data around it is pretty much all they have to offer.", "Yeah exactly. We had zero views after two weeks of being listed fsbo on Zillow because of that toggle.", "I can name a single real estate agent that deserved, well, they got $10,000 from their cut of a $400,000 house. Thing is, they worked for weeks and intentionally told the people I know to avoid buying a house for X or Y reasons, unless they really wanted to. Recommended a house a few times, each were sold to someone else, still kept going at it trying to find something quality. They got an independent inspector to check out the house they got in the end, and he basically said the same thing their realtor said- a few very minor problems, but very doable. So far, they're happy.", "a dome home? Feel free to say no, privacy and all -- but care to share any pictures? sounds cool.", "Sure, here's a picture I took of [my dome home in the snow](https://imgur.com/a/nZ0pZ9o)", "No I was just trying to figure out what exactly I said implied that I would defend any professional not looking out for their clients.\nReal estate is a review heavy business. If you don't look out for your clients or if you do something unethical you'll suffer.", "Thank god they are discussing the removal of blind bidding in Canada. Homes will hopefully sell for what the highest bidder pays instead of inside info between groups of agents scratching each other's backs.", "\"I used to be a bartender, now I own a boat\"", "This is honestly exactly how my childhood best friend and i lost touch, we were in high school through 08 too. i really would love to get into the details and type pages about that whole side of home buying and selling and the people/industry it is but the characters from Florida in the movie \"The Big Short\" do it a little justice. Last i heard my old friend has ordered himself a 2022 Porsche which is very telling, just hope he gets some joy from that i guess", "Should have altered the document listing yourself as the buyers agent, getting 2% for yourself and cutting him out. Just to see what he would say lol", "Do you think the courses are worthwhile for learning about the sector, rules and regulations, even if you never plan to enter the profession, but plan to buy at least a property or two in your lifetime?", "Those Japanese maples are worth the price of the house alone", "That's the pricing when you're close to a major city unfortunately. \n\nMostly thanks to shitheads repeatedly buying houses to rent them out. Housing as investment vehicles needs to stop.", "I tried to buy a house unrepresented and the sellers agent said “her broker wouldn’t work with someone who wasn’t represented”. I told her it was her legal obligation to show the seller all offers (I was offering full asking, with expectations that the reserved money for the buyers agent would be kept for the current owner, so basically 3% over asking). She hated me. Someone bought the house in an all cash offer at 10% over though, so I missed out. \n\nI met the sellers a few weeks later and they said she was a jerk about my offer and they wished they would have taken mine instead. Just to keep her out of commission…and I said I would adopt their chickens because they were moving overseas lol. I still wish I had that house. It was sweet.", "I’m a realtor and after reading a lot of these comments I see people don’t get that the average person is too busy with work or family to handle the entire transaction process. If your retired and have the time, by all means do what you think is best. But for many they don’t have the time and often get overwhelmed and stressed over such an important decision without some kind of guidance", "In my local market, if you don't waive inspection you won't get the house. Lots of cash buyers out there that will waive it so you end up at square one.", "Beautiful", "NAR (National Association of Realtora) studies the numbers regarding FSBO’s. On average, they sell their home for marginally less than what it’s actually worth. So they sell it for less money, but they don’t pay a commission, so they feel like they won, plus they have the added headaches of dealing with buyers and agents etc. I can’t tell you how many FSBO’s I’ve reached out to that 1. Never answer 2. Don’t return calls 3. Don’t understand how negotiations work. It’s insane. These people are leaving money on the table. Shit why don’t you go do your own surgery since you’re so smart? It’s ludicrous to me.", "What’s the cause? They don’t know how to negotiate in a multiple offer situation, for example? They accept a lower price because they don’t know what actual comps to look at? I can’t tell you how many sellers think they know what comps are but they are WAY off. Just because your neighbor’s house sold doesn’t make it a comp. there’s so much more that goes into it than just proximity and if you only go based off of proximity, you are way off. As evidenced by Zillow no longer buying homes!!", "As a Realtor, it's pretty damn close. The problem is that the technology is used by big corporations to fuck people over. Zillow's zestimate is trash for figuring out the price of a home, and is higher than usual so they can sell it back at a higher price, or hold onto it in order to create an artificial inventory shortage, thus raising the prices of homes. I'm all for automation of my job, but it has to be by an entity with our best interests in mind.", "Why should a buyer do FSBO if it isn't going to save them money compared to using an agent, such as their mom's friend that they've known for a long time? As the seller, you'd need an incentive to get that 6% back, which means charging some % less for those without agents or more for those with agents.", "Because it isn't worth my time to become a mini real estate agent. In fact I would argue that it isn't worth most professionals' time, it also shouldn't be the biggest financial decision in your lifetime. There are much much more important financial decisions you will make. \n\n\nWhy would I dedicate my own time to learn an entirely new skill set to save 10-15k? It would be much more valuable to dedicate that time to a skill set that allows me to earn more vs a one time savings of 5-20k unless I plan on using that skill set repeatedly.", "It's been a while from when I last checked, but I believe that after the buyers brokerage gets 2.5%, that's split by half between the brokerage and the agent. I think, could be more variable than what I read.\n\nBut yeah, flat fees make more sense. In the current industry, its essentially mandatory tipping for house purchasing. I could buy a $10000 bottle of champagne at a restaurant, but did the waiter really earn $2K for bringing it out? Sure, the next argument is going to be 'don't buy the champagne if you can't afford the 20% upcharge,' but that still doesn't justify the charge.", "Unfortunately, this isn't at all how it works in competitive markets when houses go for over asking, cash offers without an inspection.", "Travel agents are a godsend for certain situations. We often find that our agent even with her fees will save us a ton of money. Oftentimes because of their arrangement,ents they will get 20-30% discounts on lodging and other expenses. \n\nI don't have time to research or compare prices. My travel agent knows exactly what I want and it usually ends up costing about the same if we don't use them but we save countless hours of time.", "The only one bringing money to the closing table is the buyer...", "Sounds like this is no different then every other product or service in the world. Find a good one an they are more than worth the money, a shit one probably isn't", "I think it's a profession that says a lot about someone's personality. It's generally a pretty big red flag to me when meeting new people.", "In most of the US most people would never involve a lawyer in a residential real estate transaction the agent serves that purpose.", "What's it like knowing people are starting to genuinely hate people in your line of work and your industry in general?", "Yes but the Lawyer won't do all of the other things an agent will do. A lawyer isn't going to find the house for you and work the other agent.", "My gf started watching Selling Sunset. Basically high end real estate in Beverly hills. It's ridiculous how easy it all looks. And oh look! 80k commission!", "Not OP but i just bought my second home. We had to sell our first home and use some of the proceeds from that sale to buy our current home. Doing that in this insane market meant selling our home but leavong a long enough time for us to find another home and then writing up a closing on the new home that worked with our moveout date from our first home. Basically getting the schedule wromg would either force us to rent elsewhere for some period of time or would have forced us to pay 2 mortgages for some period of time. We also put in an offer against 7 other people within 48 hours of the house being listed. \n\nMaybe i could have navigated all of that myself but its very possible the selling agent would just skip over my offer sinply due to not wanting any delays or potential screw ups that a biyer might bring to the table compared to an experienced realtor.", "Dealing with individual buyers is often hell for a seller so they will avoid it all costs.", "No they are demonstrating the value fo good agents, the people in this video were clearly bad ones. Reddit is filled with mostly young naive people who don;t understand the value professionals provide.", "You are still out your inspection fee if something comes up and the seller does not agree to remedy and you aren’t willing to deal with it.\n\nWhich happens often in a sellers market. The seller will just assume they can dupe another buyer. Or get someone else to buy without an inspection. \n\nAnd yes, they are now legally required as a sellers realtor to disclose that condition. But they never do.", "More and more of us aren't, the real estate market is overrun by foreign money laundering and house flippers. Sometimes a lucky few Canadians get large gifts from family that allow them to buy into the bubble.", "I love it", "You took a $500 dollar weekend course to become a realtor. Agents are not worth 50k a transaction", "Realtor here. We provide efficiency and peace of mind with what is usually the biggest purchase of your life, and there's a lot going on behind the scenes that make us worth that price. People like to think they can buy a home alone, and maybe there's a good chunk that can, but most people get super emotional during the transaction and frankly wouldn't be able to handle it if I wasn't involved. Most realtors fail within the first year, because they don't train themselves to be efficient and take lots of chances. My best explanation for why I'm paid as much as I am is this:\n\nFirst off, I am on call 12 hours a day everyday to answer any questions, show homes, or write contracts. No days off. The reason is, if I miss one phone call with a potential closer, they will immediately call someone else and I will lose all that work I put in. There is no loyalty to me, ever. I'm an independent contractor and that adds to the price because my commission is not guaranteed. If I was working a w-2 job, at the rightful minimum wage of $25 an hour, working 12 hours a day for 10 months out of the year, I would make $90,000. If I'm an OK agent, and manage to close a deal a month, I am working for what should be minimum wage in a somewhat skilled job. \n\nSecond. I don't meet my clients by luck. I spend hours everyday marketing myself so I could meet as many people as physically possible, and stay in touch with them. My job is a numbers game. Of all the people I meet, there is a tiny of percentage of people are interested in buying or selling a home, decide to use me, and actually end up closing on a property. I hate how 99% of my job is marketing, and making sure my clients actually do what they need to do and don't fuck it up in the process. You can do everything right, and then your client will buy a boat and then not qualify for a loan and then all that work is gone. A lot of people say my job is customer service, but I see it as a business partnership with someone to buy or sell a home, and most people are shitty business partners who think they know better than me. \n\nOperating costs ain't cheap either, $2500 a year to keep my realtor membership, $250 a month for my Lead management so I can make sure I follow up on clients. Gas and car payments so I can show homes. A lot of people spend $1000 or more a month on their advertising, which can be Facebook ads or the cost of going to events to meet people. Everyone thinks that agents are overpaid, so any service a realtor uses is going to gouge as much as they can out of them, which drives up our prices even more.\n\nI am not just paid to open a lockbox and writing a fill in the blank contract. Anyone can do that. Not everyone can make a system to find clients, and protect themselves in case they don't get paid for a while. We aren't overpaid, the best agents make a lot of money yes, but that is because they worked their ass off to beat the other 20,000 realtors In my state. My commission is not guaranteed, and I have to have many failsafes to retain clients and make sure they don't fuck up, and that takes a lot of time and money. If I have to skip Christmas because someone wants me to show them a house, I damn well be getting a good check for it, you would do the same thing.\n\nEdit: I do understand the hate for real estate agents, because tbh I hate them too. Most of them are as bad as clients. They don't answer their phones, they don't care about their clients, and are in it for the money. The best realtors aren't car salesman, they are people who actually care about you and want to make sure you are in the best position you can be in. That kind of care is the kind of realtor you should look for, and is worth the money. I love my job, because I get to educate people to make the best decisions in their life. I get people out of bad renting situations, I try to be inspirational and help them with their personal problems, I actually care. \n\nTL:DR It seems like we are overpaid, but there is a lot more that goes into being a Realtor than people think. Marketing is expensive, I have to work constantly, and my commission is never guaranteed.", "Take the course, go see how hard real estate is.", "Some realtors are shitty, absolutely. But it’s an art.", "I mean $15k commission means you’re buying a $500k house (assuming your agent, which is the only one you can control, takes home 3%). If you’re buying a half million dollar house I 100% agree with you. Go do your day job.", "It’s kinda nuts that you even had time to get an inspection before placing the offer. Here in Texas it was all bids due like 3 days after the house was listed.", "Fair enough, I look at everything from the lense that I want to be as highly indexed to earning as much possible and want to spend as little time as possible on things that do not directly generate revenue, whether that is cleaning my house or selling it.\n\nI should understand that not everyone has that outlook or that opportunity to earn. I think people need to understand the context of these decisions, it makes sense for some people and not for others. People on this thread that act like I'm an idiot for using real estate agents just frustrated me.", "I mean I think a lot of it depends on your salary. Taking the time to learn all that BS and coordinate it would be pretty substantial. Calculate your salary for that time and ask yourself if it’s worth detracting that amount from your free time. Then make your decision based off your risk/reward/enjoyment.\n\nFor example, I replaced my toilet upstairs and saved $500 hiring a plumber because 1) I had the free time, 2) I enjoy it, 3) the risk is very small (I just call a plumber). If I have to learn real estate contracts, etc. I lose a lot of time learning, time talking to people over the phone (which I generally dislike), and the risk is I get majorly fucked over for hundreds of thousands of dollars.\n\nI’ll hire a professional.", "Might not have sold without the higher commission. You can even say it sold for more because of the fees.", "This is why I’m so glad Utah has homie. It’s, so far, doing successfully what the business from 2005 in the video is doing. $1500 to list. We bought and sold with them, would 100% do that again. Saved nearly $30k.", "Every idiot I know who tried an MLM on for a while is currently working on their REA cert.", "Why not post the sales on a website and don't pay anything to anyone?", "Sometimes the home inspectors are bogus though, they have the same likelihood of being incompetent as a realtor. So a seller could basically disregard an inspection item as being a non-issue. Has happened to me as a seller a couple of times where the inspector found a thing or two which didn't have the significance they thought. We explained this in a well worded counter, and the buyers must have agreed as they proceeded anyway.", "Yup. And this is where being a savvy and knowledgeable buyer works wonders. You can do this as a buyer only if you're unworried about such expenses, or you're able to spot most of these things and your first offer reflects them.", "Not a third party inspection usually. Bring a friend, family member in the trades, or use a very seasoned buyer's agent who will see the majority of these things. Or be aware that you'll have 10-20k in expenses in the first few years. Which you often can even with clean inspections. The real issue is when people list some real pits to the market which they couldn't get away with in a slow market.", "When I bought my house my realtor asked me how I found this place. She was amazed that it never came up on her list because it was one town away from my ideal town. I really wonder what I was paying her for.", "Yeah I agree 100%. Many inspectors are full of shit as well!", "While people may see it as a bad thing that real estate agents demand the commission, keep in mind that don't make a salary. Especially if you're selling by owner no agent wants to touch that. Owners are notoriously hard headed to work with, refuse to work with a reputable title company because the agent is \"just suggesting one that will make him more money!\" Cuz somehow that's a thing. But the reality is, home buyers don't pay a penny out of pocket to a real estate agent. It's all commission. So if I spend two months working with clients and they fall in love with a FSBO home that offers 1% when I would traditionally be getting 3% that effects my bills. This why many agents won't touch FSBO. \n\nAnd then you have new agents that think that they have to decrease the commission to get the listing from a client. Put it on the MLS at 2% and wonder why no one calls to see that house. It's a business, and agents deserve to make money too. There's no up front fees, they only get paid when the home sells. It's not like they're out there trying to fuck over homeowners.", "A real estate agent didn’t find me my last house. I found it and they unlocked the door for me and forwarded emails from the sellers agent.", "If you're in the US that's just dumb. You don't pay out of pocket for a realtor as a buyer, and it doesn't change the commission. All you're doing is guaranteeing that the selling agent gets the full 6%. Which, by the way, they'll be acting as your buyers agent but be beholden to the seller, as such they'll be acting as a dual agent. This common enough, but your interests in the transaction are secondary to the seller's. Hire an agent, limit your liability, and make sure your interests are being looked out for.", "Omg they spent a few extra hours with you for thousands of dollars in return. Literally anybody would do that. You make it sound like they saved your life when they actually just conned the shit out of you lol", "That's the worst argument ever. A seller sells for the agreed upon price that's dependent on appraisal. It is free for the buyer. There's no \"added 6%\" to the selling price. It's simply, \"housing in the area similar to this is selling for $X, I think you can get 10k over $X.\" Seller, \"I really really want to get 20k over $X though!\" And then you go round and round with seller to try to find a price that may please them, only to have the appraisal come in at exactly what you said, and now the price is being renegotiated. The price is the price. The seller simply gives up 6% of the purchase price as cost of doing business, marketing, legal, etc. There's a lot that goes into it.", "Inspecting a home costs tons of money though ideally you’re inspection wouldn’t uncover anything that would cause you to not buy the house.", "You misunderstood my point. I wasn’t saying the hours were worth thousands (and it wasn’t a few hours, this wasn’t our first bid. I would estimate she spent roughly 30 hours working directly with us and 2 months of being on call and available at the drop of a hat. Even if she only spent 15 minutes, she spent her time being ready to help us. That isn’t something I would do for free, would you?), I was saying we wouldn’t have gotten our home without someone to help us the way she did.\n\nAnd unrelated, but she helped us lower the price by about 10k with our offer (there was a higher bidder, but she helped us figure out terms the seller wanted more like not making them clean carpets or fix some very simple and cheap diy things) so even just talked raw money we came out ahead because of her expertise in the area.\n\nI am not saying this is typical, but it was my experience in this ridiculous market that a buyer’s agent was extremely helpful and worth the price.", "\n>So if they didn't have to pay commission they could sell for a lower price.\n\nOn what planet? On what planet does what you just said make sense and actually happen? You mean to tell me, that if a seller didn't have to pay commission, they'd *willingly put less money in their own fucking pockets?* For what? So Jim and Sue who really really want his house but can't go that high can buy it even though Tina and Randy are willing to pay over asking, but they're using an agent‽ Come on now. \n\nIn most markets in the US aren't as hot as the big cities. Avg home value in Michigan is around $200k. 6% commission is 12k split between two agents. 12k on 200 is nothing. It's a drop in the bucket. Yeah it stings of you don't have a lot of equity, but the reality is, it's a major purchase and a business transaction. Let the professionals do it.", "Bro, you just replied to yourself in thread where you're saying that you can fill out legal forms no problem. Cool story.", "ah okay, we’ll just take your word for it then", "As a former agent, if this ever happens to anyone, report them. They may not be a member of the local Realtor board, but you can absolutely report them to their broker, and the department in your state that regulates licensing. A real sneaky thing you can do if you feel you're not getting any traction with either of those is to ask for a copy of their E&O insurance (errors and omissions) and call the company. While what the agent was doing may not directly be under their purview, it may put them on the radar or get them dropped entirely as a preemptive move to save money. Gotta pay more for insurance then!", "So fucking dope!!", "This exemplifies why I cannot vote Conservative in a federal election. Wanting to gut the CBC. No other news broadcaster would even think of doing reporting like this.", "The process can be simple. File this paperwork, file that, sign here, sign there. Knowing how to negotiate, to remove the emotion from the transaction is the hard part. I've been out of the business for over a decade but I had clients that if the buyers and the sellers were the ones trying to negotiate, they would've never bought/sold and bodily harm may have come to one or more of the interested parties. There's a reason that businesses use agents, and it's not because they love spending money. It's because there's an actual value, both in negotiation, liability, and compliance. Having been an agent and knowing what I know I would never buy or sell without one. They're insured for a reason. I'm not. Fuck that noise.", "Back when I got licensed in Michigan like two decades ago, you had to amortize a loan by hand. There was a section where they'd give you \"in x month of y year if they've been paying z at b% how much of the payment is going towards the principle and how much to interest?\" But ultimately it was pretty manageable test. Now, my insurance license test, who boy. I thought I failed that one but somehow passed. I had a buddy take it 10 times before passing. That's fucked up.", "If offer A doesn't have a buyer's realtor fee to pay, it can be lower than offer B that has a buyer's realtor because the seller walks away with the same money in the end.", "Marketplace will ruin your life..", "It’s ironic that Derek chauvin was a cop and a real estate agent.", "So again, your argument makes no sense. If the seller walks with same amount of money, what do they care? If offer B is higher, but has an agent attached, all the seller will do is counter offer A to match so they can make more money.", "Not worth it if you don’t want to be licensed imo", "Last i saw the loudest crypto bro on my facebook feed got his real estate license", "\"Inside info\" is a relative term. As an agent, I frequently advise sellers to accept an offer that's lower than the best offer we've received due to the level of communication I've had with their agent and lender, etc. \n\n\nIt's not as simple as highest offer, or even highest offer with strong down payment, etc. Every seller's needs are different, and the job is about locating the best offer that meets their particular needs. \n\nWriting the highest net offer doesn't, and shouldn't guarantee you win the bid if a slightly lower offer is supported by a group of professionals who make themselves available to defend that offer, but you don't even answer your phone to address basic questions about your offer.", "Really good agents can do more that. They can find pocket listings before anyone else. In bigger markets where you’re competing against ten all cash offers… that’s hugely valuable.\n\nOn top of that, if you’re not a good negotiator, agents can protect you and a be a valuable asset. Not everyone is a good negotiator. \n\nMost agents suck. The few who hustle and work for their clients can be valuable. \n\nMy wife works in corporate real estate and negotiates contract leases for a big evil cell phone corporation. She’s the most knowledgeable real estate person I know and we still use the agent we love when purchasing homes. She’s saved us lots of money in the past.", "Thank you for seeing the bigger picture. \n\nMost people don't grasp that in for every hour we spend with you personally, we typically work at least 3 behind the scenes to make the deal happen. This includes creating the searches that send you listings, scheduling appointments, coordinating multiple showings to be efficient, drafting contracts, negotiating with other agents behind the scenes, reading title and inspection reports, advising you on issues found in those reports, negotiating to rectify those issues, coordinating with your lender and the title/escrow company, etc. \n\n\nAdditionally, since agents work on straight commission, our rates have to cover the cost not just of the work we do for you personally, but our business costs (rent, payroll for assistants/admin, vehicle costs, etc), as well as all of the unpaid hours we work (marketing, showings/clients that don't lead to a closing, etc). \n\n\nThere's a reason why you pay a plumber $150/hour when the guy who actually comes to your house probably makes $22/hour. The same logic applies to your Real Estate Agent, even though by your perception, you're hiring a single person.", "If an agent is making $50k on a 2.5% commission, that's a $2M transaction. In nearly every market in the country, if you're buying a $2 Million house, you're going to have very high expectations out of your agent, and they're not going to be a 2 bit flunky who just passed their real estate exam and has the bare minimum qualifications.", "Boilerplate documents are so hard!", "\"buyer to verify\" does not exonerate the seller from their responsibility to honestly and proactively disclose material info about the property. \"Buyer to verify\" efffectively means \"we haven't had an issue with this, but we're also not warranting it.\"\n\n&#x200B;\n\nSeller may not know there's a crack in the foundation, so you should check. But if you find out after the fact that the seller spent the previous 2 years dealing with foundation contractors and didn't disclose any of that, the seller is going to be in big trouble, regardless of whether they said \"buyer to verify\"", "Lawyer, lol", ">The video is literally saying realtors won’t let buyers know of or actively shit on FSBO houses for no good reason.\n\nActually, this video glossed over a lot of pertinent info that would constitute a good reason to shit on the property.For example:: even though commission is generally paid to the buyer's agent through the listing broker's commission offering, buyers also agree to pay a commission to the buyer's agent. If a buyer agrees to pay a 2.5% commission to their agent, and that agent is only going to receive 1% through the Buyer's Agent Commission, the buyer would remain on the hook for the 1.5% disparity. And most of the agents I know who've lasted 5+ years in the industry would advise their clients of that reality. That would effectively add $22k to the purchase price of the home given as an example in the video. Furthermore, most of MY buyers would refuse to see the house even if I told them I wouldn't charge them the difference. When you build a solid relationship with your clients, they want you to be paid what's expected. I've had this exact scenario play out several times in the past few years, and EVERY time, my clients decided not to see the house, even when I've offered to accept the lower commission rate.The lady who's selling the home in the clip also stated that she's using a flat fee broker. In most cases, these brokers are limited service agents, meaning they charge you to list the house on the MLS and provide you with forms, but no real support beyond that. In practice, this means that the buyer's agent ends up being responsible for running both ends of the transaction, while only being paid for 1 side. And more importantly, it can create serious issues of liability for them, because if I create an addendum for the seller while representing the buyer, I've blurred the lines of representation.\n\nAlso, we have no independent verification that the house featured in this video was actually priced correctly. Two of the three agents they spoke to said the home was overpriced, one by $50k, another by $200k. This may have been a steering tactic, but it's equally possible that it was truthful.Finally, in each circumstance, the reporter cold called an agent asking to see a specific property. They had no agency agreement, nor established relationship. If a prospective client calls me, asking me to show a home that's $200k (about 15%) overpriced and offering a commission that's 40% of what I charge, I'm probably not showing them that house. I'd be more direct than these agents were about it, but I'd also be very hesitant about a client where our first meeting was based on a strong desire to see a property I felt was a crappy deal for them or anyone else.\n\nNone of this is meant to say that this video isn't highlighting an actual issue. It is, and there are certainly agents who simply obfuscate to protect their commission. However, this video is \\\\not compelling to me in the sense that it proves agents were conspiring against this woman. Her opinions about her home's value aren't facts, and if we make the logical assumption that experienced agents know more about the market than an individual homeowner who's trying to save money because of her financial circumstances (as opposed to actually having the skill and knowledge to DIY), the reporter's gotcha is much less compelling as well.", "While you are true and providing valuable advice. There have been cases of not looking out for the client's best interest in the industry. Picking and choosing who gets the final bid based on where and how the buyer's/seller's commission is distributed.", "Yeah, us youth are panicking. It was bad before but shit has really hit the fan on prices in the past two years.", "Yes, there most certainly have been cases of agents putting their best interests above those of their clients. However, there's a big difference between isolated incidents of such corruption and institutionalized corruption. \n\nAdditionally, this video glossed over a hugely relevant detail. Regardless of what commission is offered via the MLS, buyers sign a commission agreement with their agent, which has a specific dollar amount or percent of purchase price listed as a fee. If you and I sign a contract which stipulates I'm entitled to a 2.5% commission, and you want to buy a house where the MLS advertised commission is 1%, you would owe me the other 1.5% yourself. \n\nAnd in the instance where you cold called me to see such a house and we have no contract, I'm within my rights to refuse to show you the property for any reason that's not discriminatory against a protected class. That's not to say any of these agents handled this situation well, but they had no obligation to the cold caller on the other end of the phone or to the seller of the house. They represented neither party. I have a feeling if they called 15 agents and 12 of them were open, honest and clear, stating \"This house is offering a 1% commission. I charge 2.5, so if you're interested, you'll need to agree to pay me the other 1.5% in addition to the purchase price\", the show wouldn't have mentioned any of those agents, choosing only to show the 3 who handled it less directly.", "because people dont have money to go to court.", "I don't like realtors generally speaking. I think most are stupid, lazy, and unprepared. They do the bare minimum and get away with it because the system is rigged in their favor. Obviously, there are exceptions to this rule. There are smart, hard working, prepared agents that are an asset.\n\nWith all that said, you can't offer 1% fees to the selling agent because they have to split that fee with their brokerage house. If they can sell another house and get 2.5-3%, which they'll actually pocket 1-2%, it's much more advantageous. By offering 1%, you're basically asking the realtor to work for free.\n\nIf you're going to FSBO, you need to either be prepared to cut the seller's agent into the deal at a reasonable rate OR don't post on the MLS. Post on something like Zillow FSBO, and make it clear that you won't be paying agent fees and will be showing the house yourself.\n\nThere are plenty of buyers who would be happy to deal directly with the owner and a real estate attorney directly in an effort to save $25-30k on a home.", "When you're a buyer without an agent; the seller's agent will automatically become the buyer and seller's agent. A smart seller will then negotiate a lower fee with the agent since they're getting both sides of the commission.\n\nRemember, as the buyer, you don't pay the commission. The seller does.", "To be clear, this is in Canada.\n\nBut the system is a pre-internet system. Basically people don't feel a single agent will be objective. They're heavily incentivized to just get the deal done, so they're going to do what they need to, to make that happen. That may favor the seller or that may favor the buyer. That's why you get your own agent. They're supposed to represent your best interests no matter what. This adds a layer of comfort to the process.\n\nBig picture, the system isn't horrible. The fees just need to drop because the level of burden on a realtor has dropped dramatically. People find their own homes online almost exclusively at this point. Hell, people are putting in offers without touring homes because of digital photos and video tours. Something simply not possible 15 years ago.", "Isn't the impact of Zillow massively overhyped? I heard that at their peak they only had about 7,000 homes on their books. That's fuck all, really.", "no, the charge is justified by you entering into an establishment that offers table service. If it's acceptable for a .50 tip on a $2.00 coke, the construct doesn't just magically change in your favor if you're trying to splurge on a $10k bottle of champagne. You're still expected to cover gratuity just the same. Many big spenders are known good tippers, and there are stories of many who are also shitbags... but the construct remains the same and carries the same expectation. how you respond simply signals your own station in life and what kind of person you are.", "That's insane. We just sold our house in northern Europe and we paid 1.75% commission. Also, no one here uses a buying agent, ever.", "This comment was brought to you by a realtor. FYI: Fuck realtors. Get a real job instead of leeching off society.", "The overwrought haters here have no idea how good this advice is. Our agent was so awesome helping us buy our current home, steering us smoothly through every step from the offer to the inspection to the closing, that we immediately sought her ought 12 years later when we are ready to sell. \n\nNow she’s walked us step by step through this, vetting and meeting with the builders of our new house, sitting with us through contract signings and construction decisions, hooking us up with contractors, designers, and even loan officers. She’s absolutely amazing.", "I live in England. Buyers don't have agents, most sellers do. The average fee to an agent when selling is about 1.5%.", "In the UK buyers don't use agents. Only sellers use agents and the average fee is 1.5%", "Why though? If I am pre-approved for a mortgage then why is it more difficult vs if I have an agent? Genuinely curious.", "Yeah, no. They’re right, buyer ends up paying for it in the end", "It was yes, but the main point is that these are the people that are trying to automate the home buying process. They aren't doing it for you", "It sucks, because I became a realtor to use my sales skills for the greater Good and to get me out of poverty in the process, and no one sees it that way. They think I'm just looking for a sale.", "You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. How do you expect to navigate a financial transaction in the hundreds of thousands of dollars without a real estate agent or a lawyer?", "With all due respect, what is the buyers agent doing as far as “work” that $3500 (half of 1%) is not adequate for? I had the house sold within two days with multiple offers. with the work I put in, the house sold itself. I should get the commission in my opinion.", "I don’t know why you’re getting downvotes lol. I’m in the real estate sector as well and I do it because I love helping people and enjoy the feeling I get when my buyers / sellers call me all ecstatic that they were able to get their dream home or sell their first house. It’s unfortunate that there are some awful real estate agents out there that tarnish the business, but if you find someone who knows the ins and outs of RE it’ll be worth it.", "What greater good? Just curious", "Helping people buy houses to build personal wealth for themselves and generations to follow. Helping people sell houses to realize that wealth.", "The barrier to entry is very low. Brilliant, thoughtful people become agents as do every dick and sally who can pass a single test.", "Lol, spoken like a true realtor.", "It’s Reddit. People on the internet behave in toxic ways they wouldn’t in real life. They downvote things they don’t like to hear, even if it is 100% accurate. That’s ok, I don’t let it bother me.\n\nThank you for loving what you do, know that there are a lot of us out there that appreciate it!", "Lol almost nothing. Many of the houses on zillow dont even have pictures of every room or the picture isnt even rotated properly. Things even an elementary school kid would think of.", "Seller has a price they’ll sell for. If six percent wasn’t taken away that price would be even lower. Buyer pays a higher price because of it. Transactional costs do not make anything cheaper or even “free”.", "> Sure, the next argument is going to be 'don't buy the champagne if you can't afford the 20% upcharge,' but that still doesn't justify the charge.\n\nAgain, I acknowledge what is expected with general tipping in the US. Just that construct is just that, an arbitrary construct.", "Helping people to make the best decisions about the biggest transaction of their life. Showing people that owning is still possible, even in this corrupt market. Getting them out of their shitty landlord's house. Educating them on financial literacy and helping them plan to have a better future. I know a lot of agents are car salespeople, but I chose this career because I believe that I can help people become better and more stable.", "I used to be in the industry. It's not for certain, but the buying realtor might also push the buyer to a higher price. \n\nThe assumption that the lady \"saved\" 75k doesn't actually prove much given we don't know what it would have sold for on the open market with full commission.", "I chose lawyer, huh?\n\nWould I rather have a lawyer, with years of high education and expertise is legal issues, or someone who needs no formal education and doesn’t actually handle the money when dealing with a transaction that went south in the hundreds of thousands/millions? (Per your question)\n\nLol, thats easy, the lawyer. Who BTW does way more and was a fraction of the cost", "Because its a real estate agents job to handle those transactions, if you are dealing with an individual buyer there is often an education process, they likely have another job so often they are not able to be as responsive or able to move as quickly, in a hot market even which mortgage company you use matters.\n\nThere is very little benefit to working with the individual so if they have other offers they will virtually always take those. I am not saying all of those apprehensions are correct, but that is the reason.", "You would be hiring the lawyer if the deal went south, which means you already lost a ton of money in the transaction, which is why you would be hiring the lawyer in the first place. So no, it wouldn’t just be the cost of the lawyer, it would be the money you inevitably will lose from trying to represent yourself in a real estate transaction. \n\nI’d love to see you hire a lawyer instead of a real estate agent next time you try to buy / sell a house. We’ll see how that goes for you 😂", "You always hire a lawyer for a real estate transaction in my area so I have no idea what you’re talking about. Also, lawyers can open and manage escrow accounts if you ask them to instead of your real estate agent brokers account.\n\nCutting out an agent would be pretty easy.", "Oh? And what state is this?", "\n>Excuse me what. It's hard earned money or even debt which requires decades to be paid off. \n\nWhat? You clearly don't know how housing works. Values are determined by the market. Now, if your house was fully leveraged (which no lender would allow anymore) you might have an argument. They're not taking 6% out of the equity you \"earned\" through payments, they're taking 6% out of equity earned in the market going up. I've been in my house for 8 years and due to the market increases (and buying at the bottom of the market) my house has over doubled in value. I've done nothing to earn that other than live in the house. So no. You're nowhere near correct.", "NJ", "\n>Seller has a price they’ll sell for. If six percent wasn’t taken away that price would be even lower.\n\nClearly you have no idea how selling goes. Why would anyone take less than they can get? \"Oh no, I don't have to pay 6%, I guess I'll take 6% less money in pocket just to be nice to the buyer!\" Lol what? The seller would just pocket whatever extra. There's absolutely no benefit to the seller to sell for lower. That's just plain not how the world works.", "Sometimes it's a fixed fee for selling in the UK, I recently bought and I think their agent had a £1500 fee. Obviously there's solicitor fees on both sides too.", "Well I don’t know much about how it works in New Jersey but here, you definitely don’t hire a lawyer when buying / selling a home.", "You do understand a seller has a minimum amount of money they’ll take, right? That amount is pushed up because of the six percent in fees.", "Is it just an unnecessary element in the transaction or is it something like they tried it and it was overwhelmingly negative to the point where they just don’t do it anymore?", "You understand that's bullshit right? The seller has an idea of what they want. It's not pushed up by commission, it's market based. A seller could have an idea of 300k and live in a 200k house. Yes, that happens. Sellers list at a competitive price in the market. The 6% isn't generally even a consideration in listing price, as sellers are just trying to maximize the amount of the offer. Even then, it comes down to appraisal. Agents are simply the cost of doing business. No seller sits there and says, \"I think my house is worth 200k, but I think you should list at 212k in order to cover the commissions!\" That's just silly. It's amazing how much people misunderstand such large purchases and the sort of protections that agents offer vs buying on your own.", "If a seller wants 300k and it is only worth 200k, the house won't sell. That's how markets work. Sellers don't have guns to their head and are forced to sell for less than they will sell for.", "> Real estate agents are just there to coordinate showings and signing of papers. Completely overpaid imo.\n\nIt's just a fact that they are overpaid, not an opinion lol that's why all the dropouts become agents trying to make it. Most hot markets you literally just do simple paperwork, coordinate staging/viewings, convince suckers into blind bidding $200k over asking with no inspection and the house sells itself in a week for a nice fat $30k+ commission. There's a real estate agent where this video investigation takes place who owns a Mclaren 765LT, a super car that trades hands for around $900k CAD.\n\nIn some markets it's definitely a hard job when you actually have to try and sell a property, but in major cities with runaway prices it's child's play. In these runaway markets the commissions are gross and there's an overabundance of realtors trying to get a slice of the pie, but the established industry scum is obviously going to try hard to keep their golden ticket.", "\n>If a seller wants 300k and it is only worth 200k, the house won't sell. \n\nYeah, I know. I was pointing out an example. \n\n>That's how markets work. Sellers don't have guns to their head and are forced to sell for less than they will sell for.\n\nThat's literally the point I've been making. Thank you.", "I'm not sure it was ever a thing but I only just bought my first house last year. I've never heard of a buyer having their own agent and nobody I know who bought a house used one. I would presume some very wealthy people hire a buying agent but it not normal for us common folk.", "You can get fixed fee online agents but they often do less work than local estate agents and some buyers don't like buying from the online agents because they are often more difficult to contact.", "This was a local estate agent, in the North East though so might be different elsewhere", "I back did the math from all the numbers that were provided. We don't have the exact listing so it's a bit of mystery.\n\nBut the comparables were at $1.5m to warrant a $75k commission at 5%. \n\nShe was going in at an entirely different price, if her initial commission offering was 1% at $14k, then her list price was $1.4m. \n\nHer actual scheme involved not having a realtor at all and no commission. We can assume she kept it the same price because this wasn't an intended sale, it just happened to occur without realtors. \n\nThe other piece of information we do know is that she did not go over asking. She got near asking. There's a big difference and one that many are conflating. She received an offer under her list price. That's in a market where homes often go above asking very quickly because of demand and realtors setting up bidding wars. Near asking can really mean anything sub $1.39 at this point you're knocking tens of thousands of dollars (at best) off the price.\n\nSo from all this information we can generally plug it together.\n\n1. With the Realtor at 5%: $1,500,000 - $75,000 = $1,425,000.\n\n2. With the Realtor at 1% and lowered Joann price: $1,400,000 - $14,000 = $1,386,000.\n\n3. No Realtors and lowered Joann price: ~~$1,400,000 - $0 = $1,400,000.~~ HOLD UP. We know she never got asking on her already lowered price on her 90 day old listing. I'll give it straight, anything between $1,300,000 - $1,399,000. The middle is fair, $1,350,000. \n\nAnyway those scenarios play out where:\n\n* With the realtor at the comparable price she sold for at market rate or higher, and despite paying $75,000 to the agents, she ended up making $1,425,000. \n\n* With 1% realtor at her price insistence, she ended up paying $14,000 and making $1,386,000.\n\n* With none, she paid no commission to realtors and did a private sale under asking. For the sake of simplicity I just threw in $1,350,000 since it was in the middle of our range. \n\n* Bottom line: We take $1,425,000 - $1,386,000 this equals $39,000. We also take the $1,425,000 - $1,350,000 this equals $75,000. What this means is Joann in both cases lost out on profit, best case scenario $39,000 and it could be upwards of $75,000 by not hiring a real estate agent.", "The woman in this video spent like 120 days on the market. She could get a license, represent herself and get the commission on the higher sale. Lmao", "ah wow, super cool! Looks great.", "I had a similar experience when looking for a rental in a city. Went with a rental agent and gave him my list of parameters and everything that was shown to us was at the top end of our range (surprise, surprise, they get 1 month's rent as commission) and pretty shitty for the price point. Ended up renting a unit that I personally found and have been there since. The only upside was they provided a rental agreement in the local language and English, but the contract was some boiler plate one that the landlord didn't even write.", "I would have reported him and turned him into the ethics board as that's illegal." ]	518	videos	Real estate agents caught breaking the law on hidden camera
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqg65h/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rqg65h/deleted_by_user/	[ "That’s actually a pretty cool tip. I’ve had a several birds slam into windows. A couple that broke their necks. Mostly one house in particular I lived in. This woulda been great to know back then", "Depending on the city regulations this is sometimes required on some high rises. Typically it's only required when there is a \"landing space\" for birds in front of the window like a terrace and above a certain height It's called bird strike glass. Often it's the vertical/horizontal lines or dots", "Another solution that I've heard is that you can get transparent stickers that reflect only infra-red light that birds can see.\n\nPresumably you can get ink that does the same thing, so you'd be able to draw vertical lines for birds (just like this) but you wouldn't be able to see them at all.\n\nEdit: Maybe it is UV not infra-red.", "I’ve seen people tape up [silhouettes of birds of prey](https://www.nwf.org/~/media/PDFs/Be%20Out%20There/helpfulhawks.ashx), not sure if it really works.", "I thought he was going to use that pen to write no flying in some kind of bird language.", "He did exactly that!", "I think you mean UV", "Now how do I get my kids to stop walking into the window? Lol, diagonal lines?", "Fuck it, draw a cat", "I am a bit disappointed he didn't draw multiple penises to scare off the birds like a proper Brit", "I don't like birds enough to have that on my windows. Sorry birds.", "I once knew someone who had a massive two-story set of windows for their vaulted-ceiling living room that looked out over a large lake. They had dead and dying birds on their deck (under the window) daily. They ended up getting two fake owls, and instantly stopped having birds fly into their windows. (They specifically did NOT want to draw or add imperfections to the windows, since they had paid a great deal of money to have as little visual obstruction in the window-wall as possible.)\n\nThe fake owls were a great solution since they matched the colors of the house and deck, and looked like they belonged there on the edge of the woods.", "No no, infa-red is correct. The government replaced all birds with surveillance drones in the 80s, and most of those drones use infa-red.", "u can get like red bird stickers for your windows.", "Near the doorways at my college, they put little translucent white squares in the windows a few inches apart. One row eye level, and then one row about ankle level for good measure/shorter people and kids. I do not have exact specifications on how they were laid out.", "Why would I want to prevent that? If they break their necks I don’t have to buy dinner!", "Great, now we need a \"how to prevent tiny stones from flying into and breaking the car windshield\" vid.", "/r/birdsarentreal", "Pretty helpful", "Draw an arrow pointing to the nearest gaming console", "For sure it’s not pretty. But those fake owls only work for so long before all the birds just start shutting on it lol.", "I was hoping the \"pen\" was actually a shotgun shell or something in disguise, and the next scene would be him shooting birds that got too close to his window.", "Reindeer can see UV, so UV stripes would help prevent reindeer accidents.", "My school had giant windows and so birds would constantly fly into them.", "I personally prefer [ducks](https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net/fetchimage?siteId=7575&v=2&jpgQuality=100&width=700&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F033%2F331%2FFreeDucks.jpg). Much more meat.", "Tried those stickers. Did not work. We hung vertical runs of paracord in front of our windows. May have to try this guy’s technique.", "Thought he was going to bat them off with his yellow stick", "It also looks pretty nice on the windows, IMO.", "I have one of those UV-ink pens and I can attest that 1. they don't work a 100% (had at least one incedent in the first few months) and 2. the ink gets more visible for the human eye over time. That seems to increase the efficacy but at that point you might as well use a regular glass marker.", "I just use magazines.\n\nThere are two windows on different sides of my house that used to be hit by birds somewhat regularly. I read somewhere to put magazines with people on the cover on the windows, facing out, so I did that, and it worked—birds have not flown into either window in years. I'm assuming the reason it works is fundamentally similar to scarecrows: if something looks like a person, it'll scare birds away.\n\nFor my windows, I just placed the magazines on the window sills. If you need to do this for a sliding door, you could just tape a magazine cover onto it.", "My house has really old windows and we get thousands of birds but none of them have ever flown into our windows luckily.", "I got the stickers and they worked really well.", "This is r/humansbeingbros material as well.", "Sure but that scares them away. He want to feed them and observe them too", "Thank you. I don't know why buy my triple pane window replacements have been a source of bird kamikaze. This technique has completely stopped the carnage. Thx.", "I got a little 5x5 inch square I put in the middle of my window, and it’s seemed to work for me! \n\nI had maybe 3-4 birds fly into my window over the course of a year, and it seems to have stopped.", "I just never wash my windows...", "But would they act as indirect repellent on Christmas Eve?", "UV-A passes through normal window glass while UV-B and UV-C is (nearly) 100% blocked. That's why you should go outside. You still need some direct sun. Just not too much so it burns you and shit.", "I tried this with a pesky bird near our bedroom window, and it didn't do a damn thing.", "Top bloke", "A company makes (or made, their site [seems to be having issues](http://www.ornilux.com/birds-glass.html)) glass with a cobweb pattern that is almost invisible to humans but visible to birds for commercial glass applications.", "I just stopped cleaning my windows. No bird strikes.", "He did all that work for nothing. Wait until he finds out birds aren't real.", "Upvote for the birds. 🕊️", "Interesting\n\nPaint markers will stay on glass for 1+ year easy but will fade\n\nYou can use Razor blades on glass, you will not harm the glass. As long as the window has no aftermarket window tint, you will be fine.", "the trick is to constantly move them from time to time", "Makes sense.", "You can also use glow in the dark ink and write a spooky message. That stops birds from hitting the glass...", "People who say shit like this are always the cringiest people", "We have a self-made silhouette like this on some of our windows and they work fine. We have a bird feeder on the yard, but the windows on that side have blinds anyway so they never hit the windows there.", "messirve", "No one does.\n\nIf you as a home owner, are willing to put that shit on the windows, then I don't want to imagine what the rest of the house looks like.", "Not gonna lie, I was convinced he was going to write \"this is a window you stupid birds\" on it.", "ummmm ...... ok ?", "The video featured here is not the original.\n\nOriginal video here: https://youtu.be/UC9xQkUtQ98", "Or sociopaths", "Prepare to get your mind blown.", "you can even buy fake owls that turn their heads now (they're solar powered)", "Every times I go to my folks house I'm astonished at how many birds smash in their windows. It's like a daily occurrence. But I don't think they would accept white lines painted everywhere on their big windows.", "Some people really believe in this ?", "Probably true.", "Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me. It's just a meme/joke, but like any group that gets its kicks from acting like idiots... it's eventually joined by actual idiots who believe themselves to be in good company.", "Eh, vast majority of the time it's some dipshit edgelord trying to sound cool and failing miserably", "Yeah unfortunately most people still believe birds are real. The undeniable proof is there, it's just hard to reach people." ]	65	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt1jqGAxi4U&ab_channel=HestonHorwin	/r/videos/comments/rqgufp/stay_professional/	[ "480p in 2021? What?", "Retro.", "That trigger discipline though.", "That was super fun.", "Pretty cool but way too forced. More organic acting would benefit this a lot." ]	6	videos	Stay Professional
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqii5v/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rqii5v/deleted_by_user/	[ "Lol. She needs to sniff some more. 😂😂😂\n\nr/vaxxhappened", "Comparing the vaccine to Nazi death camps... someone is living in a conspiracy theory bubble.\n\nOP: \"anyone who doesn't immediately change their opinion didn't watch my stupid video, now excuse me while I go sleep with a direct relative.\"", "Wow that is messed up no way in hell would I get that shot", "Did you watch the video? Nobody in it did what you're saying.", "Nobody is saying you have to. 🤷‍♂️", "I'm confused. Are you saying this video is fake?", "No. I'm saying this video is one crazy person talking to another crazy person. No one is forcing anyone the get any vaccines they don't want to get. 🤷‍♂️", "except certain countries and companies.", "We're not saying you have to get the vaccine. We're not even saying you have to get the vaccine if you want to shop or work. All we're saying is you have to get the vaccine if you want to work or shop here. 🤷‍♂️", "Good job on the pharmacist just placating her and get her out of the store. You can't reason with these anti vaxers.", "The title of the video is about the Nuremberg trials. You know what the Nuremberg trial are right? Or did you think they are related to vaccines?", "Do everyone a favor then. If you get Covid and feel the need to go to the hospital, just don't.", "Right?! \n\n\"You're right. I shouldn't be giving these vaccines. Will you please shut up now, I have prescriptions to fill.\"", "Fuck off plague rat", "Its a quote the woman in the video says.", "So someone in the video does reference the Nazis, negating your original point.", "Ok didn’t plan on it thanks", "Thank you :)", "If you watch the video you'll come to a different understanding because context makes a difference, but you won't watch it so never mind. Just call me a plague rat and downvote the video and then move on with your day.", "You obviously didn't watch the video.", "Yes; she is referencing the excuse given at the Nuremberg trials by the officers who carried out the orders to kill the Jews in the concentration camps, that they were \"just following orders\". That's exactly what she's referring to.", "A crazy person talking to a placating person.\n\nNot that it was the right tact to placate her by specifically confirming her conspiracy theories, but I can see that his goal was to keep her from melting down and making a scene in the pharmacy when they're in the middle of a busy day.", "That's a hell of an assumption to make. I watched the whole thing. You heard what you wanted to hear.", "It makes you look silly when you make a comment about a video you haven't watched. Although your comment will get upvotes because those people won't watch it either.", "Well yes. A person driven crazy by having to placate this obviously crazy person.", "Do YOU know what the Nuremberg trials were?", "I watched the entire video and it's clear the pharmacist was just trying to get her out of the store. Otherwise, he'd end up in a circular go nowhere arguement with her. You are a prime example of this issue.", "I know, but the point she's making is deeper than that. But ofcourse you don't see that for obvious reasons.", "That's what you want because that validates your position. Take a look at your video objectively. You have a woman with a very strong agenda and an unknown \"employee\" wearing no ID badge who basically flips to her side of the argument with little or no evidence presented by either party as the paper they flap around is never stationary long enough for anyone to actually read it.\n\nCome on, dude.\n\nHope your day improves.", "Lol. \n\nAnyone disagrees with you:\n\n\"YoU DiDn'T wAtCh ThE vIdEo!\"", "Did you really? I actually find it amazing that you you're saying this after watching it.", "Yes.", "The sheet is blank because up-to-date information is available online:\n\nhttps://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-956865924140\n\nhttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/20/fact-check-blank-insert-j-j-vaccine-has-instructions-information-online/5057848001/\n\nEdit: \n\nAnd after 2 mins of googling, I present said fact sheets:\n\n- Pfizer: https://www.fda.gov/media/151707/download\n- Moderna: https://www.fda.gov/media/144637/download\n- J&J: https://www.fda.gov/media/146305/download", "the pharmacists needs fired like yesterday", "I know, even the pharmacist said the sane thing.", "Because you're so deeply entrenched into your conspiracy theory that the very idea of someone thinking differently than you is completely alien. You quite literally are unable to comprehend that people have differing opinions than yours. It's a form of paranoid delusion.\n\nEDIT: i.e. You literally \"can't believe it.\"", "Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe the video is fake or something.", "Yeah, maybe you're right.", "I sincerely hope you get the help you need.", "Oh okay, maybe you're completely right.", "Thank you. I always appreciate genuine kindness from strangers.", "No, please tell me.", "A virus isn't something you plan for.", "Oh okay, thanks for clarifying that for me. Makes more sense now", "Lol. \n\nNow you're doing what the pharmacist in the video was doing.", "Yeah, I guess that's the only logical explanation.", "Was he being sarcastic? It didn't seem that way to me, but then again I'm completely misinterpreting this video so what do I know.", "It's unfair to assume, ascribe or assign motivations or reasons for people's actions and words. You can't possibly know these things", "Now you're learning.", "I mean simply judging by his body language and tone of voice, what I heard was \"Ok. Yes. You're right. You win. Please go away so I can do my job.\" He just wanted to shut her up because he's busy and doesn't have time to deal with anti-vax conspiracy nutjobs.\n\nMaybe that's not what you heard. We are two different people. I, for one, am inclined to trust medical professionals. 🤷‍♂️", "The Pharmacist is just telling her whatever to get her to shut up and leave. There is a pandemic going on and she is just causing problems.", "Surely that's the only logical explanation.", "I just watched the video and that is exactly what happens.\n\nAll your doing is demonstrating why these type of people can't be reasoned with.\n\nProbably doesn't help that she is constantly sounding stuffed up and sick and almost certainly not wearing a mask.", "She was obviously not actually there for any real information or to get informed.", ">He just wanted to shut her up because he's busy and doesn't have time to deal with anti-vax conspiracy nutjobs.\n\n\nYeah, that's probably it. No other explanation makes sense.\n\n>I, for one, am inclined to trust medical professionals. 🤷‍♂️\n\nYeah, me too. Except for the one in the video ofcourse because he's just lying to shut that woman up.", "Dang you gotta. The Pharmacist is on of the 12 Jewish Lizards that runs the world, you caught us again.", "No, but hive mind is a thing. And it's a thing in a lot of subs, including this one.", "Oh no. No matter what kind of information he would have given her, she would have had some sore of crackpot refutation. It would have devolved into a shouting match of \"But VAERS says...but VAERS says!\"\n\nHe did the right thing. He let her win so he could go back to work in peace.", "pfffft baahajajajjahahahahaha\n\nboomer journalism? QAnon News?\n\nfucking losers.", "None of what you said makes sense. Maybe just use the downvote button and use less words.", ">Probably doesn't help that she is constantly sounding stuffed up and sick and almost certainly not wearing a mask.\n\nYeah, she could've killed him. What a terrible plague rat.", "but, you see, it's not real until it directly affects u/riffraffman36. how do you not see that?", "Well, I can say that I certainly watched the entire video. And here's what I saw:\n\nA woman enters a pharmacy where people are going to get medications. It's obviously busy. She has entered with the hope of causing a scene for her video, because she's bored and spends a lot of time on Facebook, where she will later post the video. She's heard that because every patient who comes asking for the vaccine isn't given the several pages of information provided to pharmacists regarding the vaccine safety studies (which are certainly available to those patients online if they choose to view them), that it would make for a sort of \"gotcha\" moment with the staff, and she could then post a video of them being \"gotten\". The posting of such a video would earn her many digital pats on the head from her social circle.\n\nThe first staff member she encounters isn't sure whether she's there in good faith or if she's trying to make a scene, but can see that whatever she wants is going to interfere with helping get other patients the medications they're there for, so moves her out of the queue in order to keep the normal operations of the pharmacy moving.\n\nOne pharmacist volunteers to take a metaphorical bullet for the team, expecting that this is likely some kind of anti-vaccine stunt. He may be aware that she's surreptitiously recording the interaction, but mainly just wants to keep her from devolving into a screaming mess like has happened 3 or 4 other times with other persons of the same ilk, one of which resulted in having to call the police, shutting down the operation of the pharmacy, and hindering the ability of the other patients in line to get their medications.\n\nHe very tactfully and diplomatically gives her anything she wants. That includes the insert she says she's after, but as soon as it's clear that she isn't really there for the insert, he chooses to give her exactly what she wants in terms of answers. He's hoping that by placating her in this way - by untruthfully telling her he feels \"inadequate as a pharmacist\" and should \"turn in his license\" - that she will be dissuaded and will leave the store, without having caught the argument on camera that she came for, and thereby hoping to discourage her or others from repeating the stunt.\n\nOnce during the interaction, he slips up and deviates from the strategy by saying that he believes they're safe. She pounces on that, hoping that will be the entryway to the scene she's hoping to cause, by asking what studies he's referring to. In his couple seconds of silence, he's reminding himself that this person is not going to have her stance changed by any number of scientific studies, and reverts to the initial tact of absolute diplomatic placation to shortcut the length of the scene.\n\nShe hopes to bring the conversation full circle to the discussions she has online, and asks \"one last question\" about the Nuremberg trials, which she's heard someone refer to. She means to insinuate that the entire worldwide medical establishment is coordinating to harm people - this is nothing other than a conspiracy theory - that they are knowingly harming people but would give the excuse that they are \"just following orders\", as the concentration camp commendants said in the Nuremberg trials. Having been unsuccessful at causing a scene with this very provocative \"question\", she gives up and leaves.\n\nI choose to think that there's, if not a rational person, a kind person under all the anti-vaccine rhetoric in this woman, and she has some inkling that she's doing something wrong by attempting to berate this humble and diplomatic gentleman. Alternatively, maybe she's just feeling thwarted and decided this was a waste of time and that she'll need to try this at another pharmacy.\n\nI'm not really sure that this was a wise tact for the pharmacist to take, in that some of the things he said for the purpose of placating the woman could be viewed by her and her online friends as \"evidence\" supporting their claims. But the only real alternative would have been to attempt to change her mind, which is impossible - her views regarding vaccines are socially driven, and no amount of evidence would change them. So I recognize that in his experience with these situations, he's probably correct that this tact was the most effective at preserving the operation of the pharmacy and the general peace in the waiting area.\n\nThat's what I saw in the video, which I watched in full. I think it would be possible to look at the same video and take it as \"evidence\" of a grand conspiracy, but what would be all confirmation bias, and intentional neglect of the obvious placation happening here.", "right? dude was just like \"yeah whatever ya old fucking nutjob. whatever it takes to get you to get away from me.\"", "Hint : Nazis. The World. A trial. Some hangings.\n\nNothing to do with vaccines.", "Well, your mind is made up so my input isn't necessary it seems.", "Have a little read about what actually happened at Nazi camps, where poison gas (Zyklon-B, which was designed as a poison) was used to murder at least one million people in gas chambers at Auschwitz and other camps... and that was just the gas, where people were instantly murdered by firing squad if it was (arbitrarily) decided that they were unfit for forced labour, where political prisoners were executed at the death wall in full view of other inmates, where the few who survived were so inhumanely treated that many weren't recognised as being alive at their liberation.\n\nTo have the audacity to compare any aspect of the Holocaust to a vaccine used to prevent a disease from spreading and severely impairing and killing people is frankly disgusting and deeply offensive. You should, if you have even a shred of dignity, without a seconds hesitation apologise to EVERBODY in this thread, you callous and decrepit excuse for a human.\n\nFuck you.", "If you're gonna teach me about it then go all the way. A few words won't do it justice.", "Lol. \n\nHe's not lying. He's placating.\n\nA person as crazy as the woman in this video has no concept of \"lies\" and \"truth.\" A person as crazy as the woman in this video believes that chemtrails fall into ponds and turn the freakin' frogs gay.", "HAHAHAH oh man, just in case you didn't already realize OP is r/iamverysmart, here's one of his very enlightened posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/nihilism/comments/repdey/i_couldve_spent_the_whole_day_jacking_off_and_it/\n\nNow blasting this dumb fucking shit AND the negative comments of this thread all over reddit.\n\nWhat an absolutely pathetic little baby.", "Youre very emotional.", "Then why are you posting and sharing the fuck out of this video? Get a job, idiot.", ">He's not lying. He's placating.\n\nOh right, ofcourse.\n\n>A person as crazy as the woman in this video has no concept of \"lies\" and \"truth.\" A person as crazy as the woman in this video believes that chemtrails fall into ponds and turn the freakin' frogs gay.\n\nYeah, she's probably an insane person. That's gotta be the only explanation.", "Lol. \n\nSee, you're learning how to placate!", "Yes, because you're deeply offensive. \n\nIf you're trolling I think even less of you, but as things stand, I think you're an odious little shit.", "You seem to like internet research. You could just fucking Google it. It's much more significant in history than a conspiracy theorist at CVS.", "Oh no you shared a post i made. I'm so embarrassed and ashamed for some reason.", "This is a great recognition that people form their opinions on the basis of social reinforcement almost exclusively. It could be that every scientist who's studied any of the vaccines writes this woman a letter, personally, and includes all the raw results and statistical analyses from their research, and it would all bounce right off, because her 10 Facebook friends believe something different from what she's being told, and she likes them better and wants them to like her.\n\nI'm not sure it's right to give these people confirmation of a falsehood; but I agree that this poor pharmacist, who's probably dealt with this before, probably knows the best way to preserve the operation of the pharmacy.", "I can't be bothered though. Why don't you just do it and then tell me about it.", "https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rqii5v/woman_politely_asks_a_cvs_pharmacist_for_a/hqah7cf/", "because it shows how completely ridiculous and unaware you are.", ">Yes, because you're deeply offensive. \n\nI think you like being offended by things. It makes you feel alive. So in a way, you could thank me.", ">the best way to preserve the operation of the pharmacy.\n\nBefore someone else comes in and says \"Lady would you shut the fuck up?\" and it turns into an assault and the cops get called. All because this lady saw a post on Facebook that the vaccines have 5G in them. 😂", "Sarcasm isn't placating. I may be dumb but I know the pharmacist wasn't being sarcastic.", "I don't know if that's what he was doing. \"I feel totally inadequate as a pharmacist. I'm ready to turn in my license...I can no longer advocate for these vaccines.\"\n\nUnless I missed the sarcasm.", "dId YoU eVeN rEaD wHaT i WrOtE? If you had, you'd understand...\n\nYes, I'm confident that the pharmacist was placating her for the purpose of optimally supporting the other patients there for their various medications.", ">Get a job, idiot.\n\nYou do know that one can go on the internet before, during and after work, right?", "And what point is that?", ">Yes, I'm confident that the pharmacist was placating her for the purpose of optimally supporting the other patients there for their various medications.\n\nAfter reading your essay, you changed my mind. You might be completely right.", "It's nobody's job to give you a lecture on history. If you say you can't be bothered you're admitting you want to remain ignorant about your own conspiracy theories.\n\nLike if you're going to be a conspiracy theorist, don't half-ass it. Just makes you look like uneducated inbred maga groupie.", "There is no point. Dont even watch the video, its staged. Or the woman is crazy, or maybe the pharmacist is just placating her to make her leave. So don't worry about it, just make sure you get your booster.", "Oh I'm sure it does.", ">Sarcasm isn't placating.\n\nBut... it is. You have to be sarcastic to placate.\n\nLet's say you come to me and tell me \"Can you show me the statistical and placebo data that shows black isn't white?\" And I've got a line of normal customers out the door who are just trying to get their blood pressure medicine so they don't die.\n\nDo you think I'm gonna waste my time and the time of all those normal people to sit down and try to explain to you how black is actually black and not white, when I can tell by your tone and the buzzwords you've used that there's no way in hell you would ever believe me?\n\nNo, I'm gonna say \"You know what? You're absolutely right. Black is white. You can go right on back to YouTube and post a video of me saying it.\" And then I'm gonna fuck right off back to my little pharmacy station and try to get the people out the door so I don't have to be here til midnight.", ">Just makes you look like uneducated inbred maga groupie.\n\nWhats wrong with that?", "Okay, well I don't feel that strongly about it so its possible you're right I've never actually looked up the definitions.", "Oh, other explanations definitely make sense. Maybe being accosted by this lady was the straw that finally broke the camel's back, and he was already fed up by being told by the Illuminati/deep state/Jews/Freemasons that he had to give these shots what were eroding people's free will so that they would do whatever they're told, and he finally decided to tell someone the truth, that he hated this role and thought no one should be doing it. That explanation makes sense.\n\nHowever, [Occam's Razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor) says he was placating her to maximize the patient safety and medical care for those who were in the waiting area in good faith.", "GASP! \n\nAn anti-vaxxer that hasn't done his own research?! I'd never thought I'd see the day. 😂", ">However, Occam's Razor says he was placating her to maximize the patient safety and medical care for those who were in the waiting area in good faith.\n\nThat's probably it.", "For a member of The five Year club with that much karma you should know better.", "People who are anti-vax are a pathetic embarrassment, go back to school", "Yes, I haven't done research into the word \"sarcasm\" , how dumb i am.", "You keep calling yourself \"dumb.\"\n\nLet the record show I've never called you dumb. Or stupid. Or unintelligent. Or any version of the word.", "And you should know that i wasn't being serious, obviously.", "So she isn't making a point at all? I think she is. I'm trying to figure out what you think it is. Don't tell me you're afraid to express it, for fear that someone might successfully refute it and you'd have to have your ideas challenged.", "An embarrassment to who?", "And I never said you did.", "Ok. 🤷‍♂️", "Did you watch the video?", "Biologist here, I am a little perplexed here. If this is an antivax post then, OP you need to seriously consider some introspection and perhaps education. \n\nIf this is to shame other person as an antivaxxer then sure there are people out there that are just crazy or otherwise unwise.\n\nThe easiest way to explain antivaxxers is to consider the Dunning-Kruger effect. Low ability people will always think they are smarter and more capable than others. While high ability people will always doubt if they are actually high ability or that they simply don’t have enough information.", ">Anti-vaxx asshole wastes an overworked pharmacist's time, holding the entire department's output hostage so she can make her bullshit little youtube video or whatever\n\nFixed your title.", "I think you missed the sarcasm. If he really felt that way, he would have walked out of the store.", "Its just a video, watch it and make your own mind up. All I did was share it, didn't even share my opinion about it.", "Hahah yes.", "Here we go with this again. Round and round. This is where we started.\n\nI did. What \"deeper\" point do you believe she's making?", "My point is if you watched it and nothing stood out to you then don't worry about it.", "There is just no “opinion” on this video. There is no scientific or rational way to explain antivax. I think I know what you’re trying to do by including people the “low ability” way, by giving people incomplete information for people to “figure it out.” \n\nYou’re either super malicious, not very bright, or both.", "Yeah, you've completely figured me out after one very brief interaction on the internet.", "> I know, but the point she's making is deeper than that. But ofcourse you don't see that for obvious reasons.\n\nCan you explain what you mean by the \"deeper point\" she's making? What is it? Or are you afraid to have your idea about it challenged?", "No, I've just talked to enough people to know that anything that goes against what they're told to believe is seen as bad and dangerous and so there's no point in explaining things to such a person, its a waste of time and energy.\n\nThat's why I say if nothing in this video stands out to you then dont worry, because you're not ready to hear anything other than the mainstream narrative.", "I cannot say that with certainty but your tactics are identical to low-information antivaxxers. \n\n1.\tMake some vague one sided video or statement from someone remotely associated with any kind of profession regarding any topic. \n2.\tDoes not provide input from the overwhelming wider body of people who are experts in the field. \n3.\tMake sure the video or statement is vaguely out of context.\n4.\tAsk your viewers to “make up their own minds.”\n\nIt’s basically the spiel of every anti-vaxxer, low information, ivermectin-spreading low ability person who thinks suddenly they have it all figured out because someone on Instagram did the same to them.", "I'm not going to thank anyone who equates vaccination with genocide. You have literally zero idea what you're talking about, and more to the point... You're contemptible.\n\nPiss the fuck off.", "Well, that's a bit rude.", ">I cannot say that with certainty but your tactics are identical to low-information antivaxxers. \n\nOh ofcourse they are.", "Well, we certainly agree that our social confirmation biases supercede information coming from sources that aren't grounded in our social environment, most of the time. (In other words, we're likely to believe what our friends believe over objective truth.)\n\nHowever, what is the deeper point you say she's making? I presume you think the pharmacist was totally earnest when he says he feels inadequate and should turn in his license?\n\nIf you can't even express your position, I assume you're afraid to have it challenged, and regret having left whatever echo chamber it was formed/confirmed in.", ">I presume you think the pharmacist was totally earnest when he says he feels inadequate and should turn in his license?\n\n\nI don't know him so I have no reason to think he was lying when he said that. But ofcourse you can say everything he said was just to placate her.\n\nHe even said \"I shouldn't be giving this vaccine...\" but I suppose that was also said just to make her leave.", "Get used to it you sack of nazi-apologist shit.", "Haha wow", "You're a redditor, of course you missed the sacasm. /S", "The food we buy shows the ingredients and what it’s made out of. The fact that we can’t strive to ask for the same with the covid shot is completely absurd.\n\nIf the covid shot is so safe and effective, why can’t they present information on what’s in it and answer genuine questions? The inserts provided with these shots are literally blank. There’s no way you can consent to something that you have no idea what’s in it.\n\nThis whole ordeal isn’t about public health, it’s about control.", "SOURCE GUIDE WITH QUOTES\n\n[1] From the WHO's Mythbusters Page on most covid cases being mild/moderate:\n“FACT: Most people who get COVID-19 recover from it - Most people who get COVID-19 have mild or moderate symptoms and can recover thanks to supportive care”\nhttps://www.who.int/images/default-source/health-topics/coronavirus/eng-mythbusting-ncov-(80).tmb-1920v.png?sfvrsn=afa995ff_1:\n\n[2] On immunity to coronavirus lasting years:\n“Immunity to the Coronavirus May Last Years, New Data Hint. Blood samples from recovered patients suggest a powerful, long-lasting immune response, researchers reported. How long might immunity to the coronavirus last? Years, maybe even decades, according to a new study — the most hopeful answer yet to a question that has shadowed plans for widespread vaccination. Eight months after infection, most people who have recovered still have enough immune cells to fend off the virus and prevent illness, the new data show. A slow rate of decline in the short term suggests, happily, that these cells may persist in the body for a very, very long time to come.”\nhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/health/coronavirus-immunity.html no paywall: https://archive.is/9gn2H\n\n[3] On mild covid inducing lasting antibody protection:\n”Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection. People who have had mild illness develop antibody-producing cells that can last lifetime”\nhttps://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/\n\n[4] From the WHO’s own website on Infection Fatality Rate:\n“In people younger than 70 years, infection fatality rates ranged from 0.00% to 0.31% with crude and corrected medians of 0.05%.”\nhttps://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/99/1/20-265892.pdf\n\n[5] From the WHO's Mythbusters Page on long-term effects:\n“FACT: Catching COVID-19 DOES NOT mean you will have it for life - Most of the people who catch COVID-19 can recover and eliminate the virus from their bodies.”\nhttps://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters\n\n[6] On covid not being a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in UK:\n”As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK.”\nhttps://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid\n\n[7] No \"long covid heart”:\n“Setting the record straight: There is no ‘Covid heart’: After a year of frightening headlines, widespread concern, and countless retweets that the virus that causes Covid-19 may attack the heart more aggressively than any other viral illness, the verdict is in: It doesn’t.”\nhttps://www.statnews.com/2021/05/14/setting-the-record-straight-there-is-no-covid-heart/\n\n[8] 1976 Swine Flu Vaccine Causing Guillain-Barré Syndrome and recall:\nDuring the 1976 Swine Flu “pandemic”, a rushed/promoted vaccine was later found to cause Guillain-Barré Syndrome - a neurological disorder where the body’s immune system attacks the nervous system and deaths (great 60 Minutes exposé): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8xYAeEDUac\n\n[9] 2009 Swine Flu Vaccine Causing Narcolepsy and recall\n”Brain-Damaged UK Victims of Swine Flu Vaccine to Get £60 Million Compensation. Following the swine flu outbreak of 2009, about 60 million people, most of them children, received the vaccine.It was subsequently revealed that the vaccine, Pandemrix, can cause narcolepsy and cataplexy in about one in 16,000 people, and many more are expected to come forward with the symptoms. Across Europe, more than 800 children are so far known to have been made ill by the vaccine.”\nhttps://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brain-damaged-uk-victims-swine-flu-vaccine-get-60-million-compensation-1438572\n\n[10] 2:15 min video clip - ABC 7 News (2013): “Narcolepsy liked to swine flu vaccines” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NriS79wEZE0\n\n[11] 12:28 min clip - RT UK (2015) - “Swine flu jab allegedly causes incurable disorder”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtHYcAmcs98\n\n[12] Vioxx Recall:\n”Approved in 1999, Vioxx was an anti-inflammatory medication to treat arthritis. Vioxx might possibly have led to over 27,000 heart attacks and cardiac deaths during its time on the market. On September 30, 2004, Merck announced a worldwide withdrawal of the drug. The Swiss researchers claimed the FDA's slow action \"has raised major concerns about the undue control of industry over postmarketing safety data.” http://www.drugsdb.com/blog/fda-approved-drugs-pulled-from-market.html\n\n[13] Thalidomide recall:\n”OTTAWA—A federal judge has locked in a compensation program for Canadians born with birth defects because of the drug thalidomide. Thalidomide was approved in Canada to treat morning sickness in pregnant women for less than a year in the early 1960s but it was available unofficially for several years both before and after that. The drug caused major problems in fetuses, particularly shortened and malformed limbs,” https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/05/08/federal-settlement-for-thalidomide-survivors-gets-courts-approval.html\n\n[14] Population segment excluded from initial vaccine trials:\n\"We don't know anything about groups they didn't study, like children, pregnant women, highly immunocompromised people and the eldest of the elderly,\" Dr. Gregory Poland, director of the Mayo Clinic's Vaccine Research Group in Rochester, Minnesota, said. And would people previously sick with Covid-19 be protected against reinfection? That remains unclear.” https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-vaccine-relies-on-new-technology-never-before-used-in-mass-human-vaccination/ar-BB1aQxlf\n\n[15] Pfizer clinical trial info: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/338484/WHO-2019-nCoV-vaccines-SAGE_recommendation-BNT162b2-2021.1-eng.pdf (Go to Page 3 - “Populations for which limited or no data exist from phase 2/3 clinical trials”)\n[16] Moderna clinical trial info: https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301-Protocol.pdf (Go to Section 5.2 “Exclusion Criteria”)\n\n[17]\n”The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has found about 5,800 cases of COVID-19 infections among people who have been fully vaccinated in the U.S., according to a new report. CDC officials tell Yahoo Life that as of April 13, about 5,800 breakthrough COVID-19 infections — meaning someone who was fully vaccinated against the virus still contracts COVID-19 — have been reported to the CDC among the more than 66 million Americans who have been fully vaccinated. Of those, 396 (or 7 percent) required hospitalization and 74 people (0.0001 percent) died.”\nhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-reports-5800-breakthrough-covid-19-infections-in-people-who-were-vaccinated-doctors-say-say-dont-panic/ar-BB1fGY0q\n\n[18] Zero manufacturer/government liability:\n”You can’t sue Pfizer or Moderna if you have severe Covid vaccine side effects. The government likely won’t compensate you for damages either”\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html", "So what was the \"deeper point\" she was making that you referred to?", "r/iamverysmart\n\ngo back to your conspiracy subs if you need to feel intelligent", "The insecurity coming off the comment is palpable!\n\nSorry, opposing viewpoints and perspectives can be scary.\n\nOur governments, corporations, and big pharma don’t give a shit about you or me. They care about money and power, not our health.", "Ohhhh, I see. You're like a scientist AND a political expert in one. Where did you get your masters in epidemiology? And political science? Surely you have multiple degrees.\n\nAhhh, that's right. You're just some random idiot. Carry on spreading your misinformation, dummy.\n\npats aapenguin on the head\n\n\nedit: False, Misleading, Clickbait-y, and Satirical “News” Sources like bizpacreview lol", "This is an Internet forum, no degrees or other requirements are needed for participation.\n\nAnd please tell me you never speak out of line either regarding things you’re uneducated about. You better not have any opinions on art, sports, business, the economy, medicine, engineering, car repair, etc. unless you have the respective degrees or trade experience in those fields.\n\nGet a grip my dude.\n\nYou’re only getting so defensive about this since you’ve apparently tied your identity into the response our leaders have forced us into during this less than deadly pandemic.\n\nLet it go, the covid shot is not a vaccine. Vaccines regularly protect the user from the ailment, prevents transmission, and are effective for years, not less than a year. But hey, let’s just lower the bar for what we consider viable medical care!*", "Called out and triggered.\n\n\"You don't have to know what you're talking about on the internet. You can just pretend to be an expert and spread misinformation. Anybody who doesn't believe you clearly 'just doesn't like to hear facts'\"\n\nAnd this guy is projecting like the fucking bat signal. Hilarious seeing the lack of self-awareness from these types.\n\nAgain, if you need to feel smart for spreading misinformation, just turn Fox News back on, hop back into your comfort zone subs (all conspiracy/covid related, which is really sad), and really reinforce those biases.\n\nLol. Silly child.", "Well, I’m not claiming to know anything, hence why I provided links to information, research, and relevant discussions. The Science™️, believe it or not, is not settled. \n\nBut don’t bother broadening your horizons…\n\nIt’s more comfortable to not have to think for yourself, so I won’t challenge you step out of your comfort zone.", "I agree with ya 100% it’s all about the money and scare tactics", "I see that but I’m durable if I die so be it but I doubt I will god has to much fun Torturing me", "Dont worry about it. Youre not ready to hear it yet.", "You're afraid to say it because you know saying it outside the echo chamber will sound ridiculous. And that I will challenge your ideas.", "Yes, that's exactly it.", ">I think you missed the sarcasm.\n\nWhy would a pharmacist sarcastically say hes inadequate and that he can't advocate for vaccines, during a pandemic? I don't understand.", "Its actually something Bill Gates and the W.H.O planned for. Its called Event 201 and the video of their session is even on YouTube on the World Health Economic Forum channel.", ">go back to your conspiracy subs if you need to feel intelligent\n\nEverything he said is actually true and is backed by the CDC. \n\nWhat do you think about that? Do you think the CDC also goes on conspiracy subs?", ">Carry on spreading your misinformation, dummy.\n\nWhere did he say misinformation? \n\nObviously you probably won't answer this question because you're in the wrong but just try being more aware. No one here is your enemy. We're all victims of governments and pharmaceutical companies that don't actually care about us.", "Really? Thats what you got from the video? Do you not understand body language and mannerisms? Maybe you're autistic or something.", "Because he wants the crazy person to leave so he can go about his day. He's placating.", "By saying the vaccines aren't effective and that he shouldn't be giving them to people?\n\nIt is amazing that you genuinely believe that. In your defence, I guess you have to believe it. For it to be real and for him to actually mean what he said would be too much for you to comprehend.", "Is English your first language? Do you know what it means to placate? \n\nIt means \"I'll say whatever you want to hear to get you to shut up and go away.\"", ">Is English your first language? \n\nNo, it isn't actually.\n\n>It means \"I'll say whatever you want to hear to get you to shut up and go away.\"\n\nThe point still remains that its absurd to say the pharmacist didn't mean what he said. Any conscious and unhypnotised person can see clearly the reality of the video.", "Yes. The reality is he wanted the crazy person to leave so he told her what she wanted to hear.", "The reality is you've been hypnotised, so whenever you come across anything that might make you question what you've been told to think, your mind literally stops you from seeing it clearly. \n\nThat's how the hypnosis works, and it isn't just you who is under the spell, that's why what you're saying is basically what everyone else in this thread is saying about the video. Your mind has become unable to face any information that goes against your conditioning, even if it is an actual video.", "Ok. I just have a couple questions. \n\nWho told you that I've been hypnotized and who hypnotized me?", ">Who told you that I've been hypnotized\n\nYou know when you talk to a drunk person and you just know they're drunk based on what they're saying? No one needs to tell you, you just know.\n\n>who hypnotized me?\n\nMostly social media, entertainment and the news.", ">Mostly social media, entertainment and the news.\n\nSo, you're on the same social media that I am and i don't watch entertainment or the news so if I'm \"hypnotized\" then so are you. 🤷‍♂️", ">So, you're on the same social media that I am\n\nWe're on the same social media but we're exposed to completely different things on it.\n\n>i don't watch entertainment\n\nNo movies? Or music?\n\n>or the news\n\nHow did you learn about covid?", ">We're on the same social media but we're exposed to completely different things on it.\n\nSo you only look at the parts of Reddit that don't have the hypnosis. Got it.\n\n>No movies? Or music?\n\nI watch movies and listen to music but only the ones that don't have the hypnosis. \n\n>How did you learn about covid?\n\nI was alive in 2020. 🤷‍♂️ Do you honestly believe covid exists only on the news?", ">So you only look at the parts of Reddit that don't have the hypnosis. Got it.\n\nThis is part of the hypnosis and it makes you completely miss my point, which works in favour of the hypnosis. I didnt even say any of what you concluded.\n\n>but only the ones that don't have the hypnosis. \n\nMost movies have conditioning and hypnosis in them. Thats why the CIA and the FBI frequently work with script writers and movie producers to portray those organisations in a certain way. You should look this up for yourself, its not a secret.\n\n>I was alive in 2020. 🤷‍♂️ \n\nOh okay. Its just that where I live, everyone here got the information about covid on the news and from the CDC, that's how they knew to wear masks and so on.\n\nYou just somehow knew about it without the news i guess.", "I'm not gonna spend another day talking in circles with you. You believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe everything else. 🤷‍♂️", ">I'm not gonna spend another day talking in circles with you.\n\nTo be honest I'm surprised you didn't say this earlier when I first told you you were hynotised. Hypnotised people don't like hearing about their hypnosis.", "🤣🤣🤣 ok.", "Just stop. You are sick and delusional.", "Dude, everything i said in the previous comment is literally verifiable, its on YouTube!\n\n\nHere's one article about it:\nhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-01/coronavirus-outbreak-researchers-simulated-severe-pandemic/11906562\n\nAlternatively, just type in \"Event 201\" in the YouTube search engine.\n\nLet me know what you think after you do your own research. It shouldn't take more than 3 mins.", "Are you so delusional that you're not even aware that you're ascribing your own meaning to this? This is about preparation for a pandemic not preparation to start a pandemic? Even my elementary school child knows the difference. Why an adult such as yourself does not is truly beyond me. Truly go get yourself help today!", ">This is about preparation for a pandemic not preparation to start a pandemic?\n\nOh okay, I see the difference now. I guess i was wrong all along.\n\n>Truly go get yourself help today!\n\nSo kind, caring, and condescending. Saying this isn't even necessary as it doesn't even help make your point. But it makes you feel good and superior.", "Condescending? You have a break with reality, you are seeking for reality to meet your preconceived notions, instead of using reality and facts, truth as a guideline. \n\nThere is no Luciferian cult trying to depopulate mankind. This is all science fiction written by David Icke and others. This is nothing but fiction they are trying to sell as reality to keep you in constant fear.\n\nYou have a mental health issue and need help. Period.", ">There is no Luciferian cult trying to depopulate mankind.\n\nOkay? Who said there was?" ]	171	videos	[deleted by user]

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