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Only with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.
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[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?"
] |
>
This is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.
I've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really."
] |
>
The scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors."
] |
>
Back when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one."
] |
>
Used Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point."
] |
>
New Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.
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[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out."
] |
>
Boycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped."
] |
>
With this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla"
] |
>
reported on this in 2017
... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network."
] |
>
I never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful."
] |
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[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud."
] |
>
This is not news in the slightest.
The article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.
Literally 0 story here, definition of click bait.
Edit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.
Edit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed."
] |
>
Nah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.
If it was "made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?
Nice try
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released."
] |
>
You are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try"
] |
>
Tesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. "BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be"
Decent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely."
] |
>
Decent 😂
Their quality is shoddy.
You’re paying for the name. That’s it.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink."
] |
>
So the F in FSD stands for fraud?
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it."
] |
>
I like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?"
] |
>
Oh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly."
] |
>
Artificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.
Ain't that right, Dogecoin?
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not"
] |
>
And yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?"
] |
>
I rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise.."
] |
>
Oh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes."
] |
>
The more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.
I am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit..."
] |
>
Fake it till you make it, just like Theranos
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂"
] |
>
Elon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos"
] |
>
How is this any different than Theranos or Nikola?
Elizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities,
Trevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities.
Elon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries.
Not to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!
But no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later"
] |
>
'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.'
Then maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)"
] |
>
They are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot."
] |
>
While it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”"
] |
>
Well Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence."
] |
>
People have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud"
] |
>
I haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago?
Like, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.
EDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla."
] |
>
Cultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!"
] |
>
Ok so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.
From what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.
But I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11."
] |
>
A telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.
If that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.
And we are a decade into "development" and it hasn't progressed...at all.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool."
] |
>
Do I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all."
] |
>
Calling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question"
] |
>
… are you on crack
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone."
] |
>
I’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack"
] |
>
Cyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.
If Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes."
] |
>
Designed for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes."
] |
>
And which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?"
] |
>
I can't really imagine Tesla going fully bankrupt and closing down, there would likely be a buyout from I dunno GM, ford, etc. But if Tesla just vanished the current tesla owners are so screwed.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?",
">\n\nAnd which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations."
] |
>
Sad thing is that your 401k is probably invested in them because of the unrealistic growth.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?",
">\n\nAnd which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations.",
">\n\nI can't really imagine Tesla going fully bankrupt and closing down, there would likely be a buyout from I dunno GM, ford, etc. But if Tesla just vanished the current tesla owners are so screwed."
] |
>
In logistics. There are so many variables that come into play during trucking and logistics. This shit is not happening for a long time folks. Sorry.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?",
">\n\nAnd which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations.",
">\n\nI can't really imagine Tesla going fully bankrupt and closing down, there would likely be a buyout from I dunno GM, ford, etc. But if Tesla just vanished the current tesla owners are so screwed.",
">\n\nSad thing is that your 401k is probably invested in them because of the unrealistic growth."
] |
>
Hope space x isn’t pulling this shit.
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?",
">\n\nAnd which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations.",
">\n\nI can't really imagine Tesla going fully bankrupt and closing down, there would likely be a buyout from I dunno GM, ford, etc. But if Tesla just vanished the current tesla owners are so screwed.",
">\n\nSad thing is that your 401k is probably invested in them because of the unrealistic growth.",
">\n\nIn logistics. There are so many variables that come into play during trucking and logistics. This shit is not happening for a long time folks. Sorry."
] |
>
So everything that comes out of Silicon Valley is built on lies and false advertising
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?",
">\n\nAnd which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations.",
">\n\nI can't really imagine Tesla going fully bankrupt and closing down, there would likely be a buyout from I dunno GM, ford, etc. But if Tesla just vanished the current tesla owners are so screwed.",
">\n\nSad thing is that your 401k is probably invested in them because of the unrealistic growth.",
">\n\nIn logistics. There are so many variables that come into play during trucking and logistics. This shit is not happening for a long time folks. Sorry.",
">\n\nHope space x isn’t pulling this shit."
] |
>
Okay but what about the pornos that were made while a Tesla was self driving?
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?",
">\n\nAnd which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations.",
">\n\nI can't really imagine Tesla going fully bankrupt and closing down, there would likely be a buyout from I dunno GM, ford, etc. But if Tesla just vanished the current tesla owners are so screwed.",
">\n\nSad thing is that your 401k is probably invested in them because of the unrealistic growth.",
">\n\nIn logistics. There are so many variables that come into play during trucking and logistics. This shit is not happening for a long time folks. Sorry.",
">\n\nHope space x isn’t pulling this shit.",
">\n\nSo everything that comes out of Silicon Valley is built on lies and false advertising"
] |
>
|
[
"Fully Self Driving! Coming “Soon” in 2015.",
">\n\ni'd like to go back to 2015.",
">\n\nFuck that, if we are going back take me back to 1992, those years fucking rocked",
">\n\n90’s looked like it was a good time to be alive this is coming from a younger person",
">\n\nIt was. Businesses sought to put the customer first in many situations generally leaving the consumer with the advantage, a single income could afford a family to live comfortably (generally), music and television was really breaking into the scene with recording tech getting better and there were no mobile devices, meaning people interacted more with each other. \nIt was just comfortable. \nIf your mom wasn't sleeping with everyone she could find leaving two young children to wonder what they did wrong and watch it eat their dad alive, that is.",
">\n\nAs long as you weren't colored it sure was great",
">\n\nThis always perplexes me! It seems like racism is more of a thing today than it was back then. This is even coming from someone that grew up in Mississippi. We seemed to just... coexist. Sure there were the occasional hillbilly trash that only existed to make others that didn't look like them miserable, but the communities always seemed to hate those folks.\nBut I was also young at the time. Through 2004, I never saw as much racism as I do today. It's really sad. I hope you didn't have to go through a lot of it.",
">\n\nIt was so much more hidden back then. Now it's out in the open and everybody recognizes the micro aggressions but my name was literally \"flat face\" until I moved out of New Jersey. They called my ching Chong all the time even though Im Vietnamese. Countless incidents that due to a TBI I probably don't even remember anymore. \nWe tolerated it more because it was so common place. Then we stopped tolerating it and that's what you're seeing now",
">\n\nThis is great perspective - we couldn't so easily interact with everyone, so it must have been a lot more contained. Now everyone feels like they have a soap box and throw their opinions all over social media and I can see where the anonymity can make racism so much worse today.\nAnd sorry you had to go through that. I was the only red head in my school and got it bad, too. The one good thing about being red headed is - white, black, yellow or green... Everyone seems to all come together when there's a ginger joke to be made lol. Eeerrybody gets offended at classifications, but when the ginger guy shows up, the masses are united.\nSigh..lol",
">\n\nThat was a great exchange. I'm glad I got to read it.",
">\n\nI'm beginning to believe this Musk fellow lacks integrity.",
">\n\nDid he buy Twitter to hide the market manipulation?",
">\n\nHe bought Twitter because his bot nets were being detected. It's not a coincidence that the whole thing started shortly after investigative reporters showed how bot nets were amplifying his messages in conjunction with major upward swings in the price of Tesla.",
">\n\nWhile it is true he was doing this, the reason for the purchase seems like it's even dumber.\nBasically he was chatting with Twitter board members when he was considering joining the board, including Jack Dorsey, about how to improve Twitter. While this was happening, he was tweeting out some anti Twitter stuff. Jack told him that \"you can tweet what you want, but this isn't helpful\". This cause Musk to have a meltdown and say \"I can't deal with this bullshit, I'm going to buy Twitter and take it private\".\nYeah. Jack sold Twitter for 4x it's value by respectfully speaking to Elon like he was an adult while he was behaving like an edgy teenager on his website.",
">\n\nParag told him that, not Dorsey if I remember correctly.",
">\n\nThanks for the correction, I thought it was Dorsey.",
">\n\nIts extremely pertinent though as Musk respects Dorsey and seemingly has less than zero respect for Parag.",
">\n\nA guy who grew up in apartheid south Africa doesn't respect a person of color? Say it ain't so!",
">\n\nHey dude, I get what you mean by this post but there’s a whole lot being said here that I think you probably don’t mean.\nI’m literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa” my mom was a PoC and my dad was white, she had to endure the pencil test (look it up) in order to marry him when she discovered she was pregnant or they could both face jail time and possible ‘disappearance’ by the SAP. If I’d turned out like a single shade darker the same fate could have befallen them. \nMy dad was active in the struggle and I have a half brother who we kept a secret because he was too brown. They are both literally “A guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa.”\nThis country has a very dark, painful history so all I’m asking is that you consider what you are invoking when you use this line against Elon who, I totally agree is one of the more reprehensible characters of our time.",
">\n\nI'm pretty sure op meant Elon was a rich white person in apartheid South Africa",
">\n\nThis seems like misrepresenting risk and worth to investors.",
">\n\nHow is this not fraud for a public company? The CEO said that these were the capabilities of the vehicle and that's patently false.\nThere's no doubt that investors saw this as a demonstration of the product's capabilities and invested accordingly. Especially since Tesla has been positioning itself as a \"tech\" company rather than a car company. \nThis is fake, misleading, and still not present in Tesla vehicles.\nNext you're going to tell me we won't start colonizing Mars this year.",
">\n\nThe same way all of the other tings he lied about, like deliveries, cash on hand and burn rate, weren't considered fraud. Because the SEC isn't doing their job.",
">\n\nAnd neither did the NHTSA or FTC; Tesla's marketing has been in direct confliction with their legalese terms of use this whole time and regulators have done NOTHING about it.\nMy cynical view is that Republicans did nothing because they brag about letting corporations run the country and Democrats did nothing, basking in Musk's lies that would have crumbled under any scrutiny, until he started openly calling for their heads last year.",
">\n\nAu contraire, is quite busy with more important matters /s",
">\n\nTime for a false advertising lawsuit on top of the growing pile of lawsuits aimed at Musk",
">\n\nThe cyber truck pulls near infinite mass! Such a nonsense statement, though legally accurate if pulling doesn’t mean moving it (towing), and near isn’t defined by an amount.",
">\n\nAnything can pull infinite mass if the rolling resistance is small. On a windstill day you can pull a cruise ship towards you.",
">\n\nCitroën C3 pulls a 13,000 tonne freight ship\nyes, I know clarkson is an asshat, but the video basically proves your point",
">\n\nWhen the option is spinning the tires or smoking the clutch, you'll probably get more pull out of spinning the tires",
">\n\nYeah, at the start he was burning clutch and realized that wouldn't work",
">\n\nMusk's arguement against using LIDAR is it would require too many sensors per car to make the option affordable. \nim over here scratching my head one why something like \"Full self driving\" needs to be affordable, before its even proven on a small scale. \nthis technology is not mature enough to do what Tesla is selling it to do. and we all get to share the road with it so TSLA shares dont shit the bed.",
">\n\nMusk's real genius was realizing that Full Self Driving could be made affordable simply by not making an actually functional product.",
">\n\nThis is called the “Boeing” strategy in government contracting. \nIf Boeing build a plane or rocket that flies, or a software product that functions, it is a side effect of their main objective which is the capture of federal dollars.",
">\n\nOf course. Why do the thing you were paid for when you can just... not?",
">\n\nBecause they’re really good at pretending to fail elaborately, and in a way that embarrasses their supporters, so their supporters will spend more money to save them. \nI got on a contract that we won from Boeing. The work we took over was really poorly done. They delayed getting us documentation and source code until Christmas week, knowing we wouldn’t have time to review before they could wipe their hands of the whole situation. \nThen it turns out that everything depended on a server Boeing had running in their facility that, whoops, they were going to turn off in two weeks to save money. \nThey ended up being paid more to keep that server on for three months, than we got paid for the whole two-year contract to replace them. \nI’m still bitter about that.",
">\n\n\n“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.\n\nThat might have been the intent of your and your coworkers.\n\nWhen Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”\n\nIt was clearly the boss's intent to say that those possibilities were already reality.",
">\n\nYeah, but the iPhone actually worked when it launched. Nobody would care if the FSD video was faked if it actually worked when it launched. Instead, it's been 6 years and it's still bad. It's like if the iPhone 5s still had all of the problems with the first they hid, and Steve Jobs was like \"trust me bros, it's gonna be awesome this time!\"",
">\n\nWell no. During the original iPhone launch presentations, the units would often fail and Steve Jobs needed to secretly swap out crashing phones for working ones.\nThe iPhone mostly worked then, but wasn't as reliable as advertised.",
">\n\nIt wasn't advertised, it was demoed, and demoed early because otherwise FCC filings would've spilled the beans. \nThe iPhone came out 6 months after that demo.",
">\n\nSo investor fraud? Got it",
">\n\nWhen all the dust settles people are gonna realize he has already extracted more than what that company is truly worth through selling stocks already. Some epic fraud. There isn’t enough popcorn in the world for when this all falls down",
">\n\nRemindMe! 2 years",
">\n\nall of muskrat's con games seem to be unraveling at the same time. It's just terrible LOL.",
">\n\nThis seems to happen whenever the person perpetrating multiple cons gets overconfident and overextends themselves, and the twitter debacle was obviously just that. The house of cards suddenly comes crashing down.",
">\n\nSpecifically, it happens more with loud mouthed asshole narcissists that get so cocky that they decide to revel in being the \"bad guy\". They've become so successful at pulling off what they, themselves, know to be cons that they fully delude themselves into believing that they can do ANYTHING, no matter how rotten offensive and public, and still get away with it. This ends up painting a MASSIVE target on their back. Other examples include Trump and Martin \"Pharma Bro\" Shkreli.",
">\n\nSerial killers do this too! It’s called “berserker mode.”. They get lazy with hiding bodies and stuff because they assume they’re invincible.",
">\n\nMaybe people should stop worshiping a car brand just because they want to feel the same as buying a new iPhone in the old days and instead ask for a test drive and buy whatever the heck fill their interest",
">\n\nI did that and bought a Tesla anyway, despite Musk. It's a really good car.\nEdit: I'll note I didn't pay extra for the self driving scam and I don't give a shit about \"Tesla culture\". I just like how the car drives.",
">\n\nRelevant section: \n\nTo create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.\n\nSo the car did drive itself but not using the capabilities available in any production package. Also, the sensors incorporated into all Teslas would not be able to create this 3D map data on the fly as Tesla has claimed is their goal. They'd need to completely overhaul their entire FSD philosophy in order to make their cars work with 3D mapping.",
">\n\nIt didn't even do that much\n\nDrivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.\n\nTo my understanding, Tesla's driver assist (probably best not to call it \"self driving\" at this point) technology is supposed to work without reliance on maps for negotiating the road itself. Rather than memorize where obstacles are, it's supposed to be adaptive like a human driver.\nFantastic technology if they can ever get it right, but our roads need reliable technology that improves safety, not potentially-someday-awesome beta software that only drives as well as a teenager with a learner's permit.",
">\n\n\nWhen trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence\n\nAutomated parking is one of the only aspects of self-driving technology that actually works. Several companies have cars that can already do it. The fact that Tesla can't even do that without faking it is hilarious.\nAlso, I typed \"self-parking\" into youtube. The first video that comes up is one that shows self-parking being tested on a number of vehicles. Between an Audi, a Ford, a BMW, and a Tesla, the Tesla is the only one that can't do it.",
">\n\nI think other car companies were wise to roll out driver assist tech with low-stakes, high payoff stuff like self parallel parking. Tesla kinda screwed up by going for something that can mostly drive itself at high speed but screws up enough that you can't actually stop \"driving\".",
">\n\nPeople in the space have been saying it for years. \nYou cannot trust humans with level 2+ through level 4 of self driving. \nHumans are not built for that level of focus when they are not controlling the thing. \nWe're gonna need to jump right to level 5.",
">\n\nYep. Human attention simply isn't able to intervene in an emergency if it isn't engaged enough. \nAm a mechanical engineer that deals with error prevention. Human attention has been very well studied for things like control room management. It is really tough even for trained professionals to take in the info and act quickly with long periods where nothing happens. I've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another. \nYet human driver are at fault if they can't perform like magic with a system like Tesla's.",
">\n\n\nI've never reviewed an incident where the control didn't act fast enough or well enough in one way or another.\n\ndid you mean \"where the control did\" and not \"didn't\"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?\nthanks!",
">\n\nMy poorly phrased point is that there are always problems with a control room's response to an incident. Ignored or misunderstood data points, communication gaps etc. Disbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm. I can't think of an incident in my field where performance was flawless.\nHumans are really bad at figuring things out at a moments notice.",
">\n\n\nDisbelief that something is actually happening and not a false alarm.\n\nI work in critical facilities. This is a big one.",
">\n\nAlarm fatigue is a bitch.",
">\n\nOk, so put this on the pile along with the RoboTaxi, Cybertruck, Solar Roof Panels, Hyperloop, Mars Colonies...",
">\n\nThey were already sued for faking the solar roof demos.",
">\n\n“Wanna see me throw a rock against the Cybertruck window? It won’t break, I swear”",
">\n\nDidn’t the Nikola founder go to jail for doing the same thing?",
">\n\nThat was a little bit worse. They didn't even have a functional drivetrain and just rolled the truck down a hill lol",
">\n\nthe bad bets podcast covered it pretty good. the investor recorded himself going \"does this work now or in the future, let's get the tense right\" and he said now, and now he's going to jail. some good youtube videos go find that spot and roll down their own cars which is fun",
">\n\nEem Elon is there something you need to tell us?",
">\n\nI don't keep up with Tesla, but this article made me realize that with FSD we could have traffic from cars with no people in them. Seriously let's just have a better public transit system instead. The idea of a car in traffic for 0 humans because someone wanted to summon their car somewhere is frustrating.",
">\n\n\nSeriously let's just have a better public transit system instead.\n\nNot to be that person, but it's not like people aren't trying. Not every place is a dense urban environment suited towards high-capital-cost, high-throughput public transit.\nAnd if it's not high throughput/density, you're gonna get destroyed on latency (e.g. even for a long trip-to-airport suited towards a transit network, you might be looking at 30m by car vs. 3h+ by transit because walking time + the relevant routes just don't run frequently enough).\n\"Better public transit\" is great, but it's not always enough to replace car use cases, not by a very long shot.",
">\n\nI've often wondered if there's an intermediate option that combines flexibility of individual cars/routes with the regularity/simplicity of rail. \nLike some advanced trolley/light-rail network with individual or large-capacity cabs, with the flow of traffic automated to improve efficiency.\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck, but with power delivered via rail, the \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.",
">\n\n\nThe rail network would be expensive as heck\n\nThe problem isn't just expense, it's that unless you spend even more money to bury or elevate all that rail, it needs to contend with existing roads and just ends up adding to the congestion rather than solving it. Unfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nthe \"cars\" would get a lot simpler and cheaper.\n\nBut it is much easier to convince people to spend money on individually-owned cars than to convince people to chip in in aggregate to spend on an expensive rail network (even if that ultimately comes out cheaper). As an example, just look at how hard it is as-is to get people to even spend in aggregate to fix the roads they already have.",
">\n\n\nUnfair as it may feel, there is definitely an \"early bird gets worm\" kind of effect here, and established roads have a LOT of advantages to overcome if you want to just replace them with \"something better\".\n\nBack in the day, San Francisco had far, far more rail lines for streetcars than it has today. The majority of them were torn up decades ago to make way for lanes for more cars. In this case the early bird got shot and the carcass was stuffed and left as a tourist attraction.\nInfrastructure systems like this have inertia and they're difficult to change, sure. But if it can go one way it can also go the other.",
">\n\n\nIt was to portray what was possible to build into the system\n\nExcept that isn't true either. If you require a 3D model to accomplish it (which they didn't even accomplish since they had to intervene and it crashed lmao) you would need LIDAR which no Teslas have and Musk is adamantly against using.\nThey poorly replicated what other self driving companies already do with geofencing and LIDAR all while claiming they will never use either because that method sucks.",
">\n\nThis is simply not true. Go watch AI day or a talk by some of their engineers. However, at the time it definitely didn't have this and Andrej Karpathy has said as much many times",
">\n\nDirect quote from Elon on autonomy day (feel free to look it up yourself)\n\nAnyone relying on LIDAR is doomed, doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices... you’ll see.",
">\n\nI'm not debating this fact, I'm saying they are using cameras to do the same thing. Pretty sure they are actually using their fleet to build HD maps in real time with cameras and neural nets.",
">\n\nYou cannot do the same thing with cameras and radar. Which is why they drive into stationary objects all the time. Cameras don't have adequate depth perception and radar cannot distinguish if what it hits is a car, a sign, a fence, etc. With radar you have to ignore stationary objects so you don't slam on the brakes when it detects a sign in the highway (which they still have issues with anyway) so you end up ramming into parked cars that got ignored.\nAlso inb4 the uneducated response of \"we drive with two cameras... our eyes!\" response. We drive with 2 \"cameras\" connected to a brain developed with millions of years of evolution that we do not fully understand. You cannot replicate your brains processing power with neural nets when you don't even know what processing needs to be replicated. There is a reason EVERY other self driving company is using LIDAR and why Tesla is so far behind them. Because what they are trying to do is literally not possible with our current technology.\nThey either need to admit FSD is vaporware for the foreseeable future or start using LIDAR.",
">\n\nWe do understand how brains generate depth information though. It's not stereoscopic - that gives you some mild 3D benefits close up (within about 25ft). Everything else is distance from motion, and heuristics based on aerial perspective, scale of known objects, shadows, and so on.\nYou can use visual flow analysis plus ML to extract depth from a sequence of images quite happily. MS was doing it a while back. Is it perfect? No. Does it have to be? Only to within +/-5ft.",
">\n\nWhile it is possible with ML, monocular depth estimation can often fail in different scenes. It is good on average, but can have unacceptable errors in some scenes which makes it much worse for safety critical systems. Modern ML just isn't good at bounding errors and it's difficult to make them good in safety critical systems. We especially shouldn't be testing these systems in life or death matters right now.\nWhy should we limit ourselves to what nature has inspired? Planes don't flap their wings like birds do. We have the ability to obtain a much easier bound on error with better sensors.",
">\n\nIt was obviously staged; no children were hit and the car didn't catch fire.",
">\n\nAll of that happened. X Æ A-Ⅻ just deleted our memories of it.",
">\n\nAt least they didn’t have to push the car down a hill",
">\n\nSounds like a Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can hardly make it up the next.",
">\n\nYou know what wasn’t engineered? Elon throwing a rock at the Tesla truck…",
">\n\nIn retrospect, that was a really great metaphor for what was to come for Elon in the year 2020 and beyond.",
">\n\nReal human beings watched that performance and thought \"Wow. Musk is a smart man. I should buy that thing he just smashed with a rock.\"",
">\n\nWhen I saw Transformers toys commercials (1990s) and then got the toys for Christmas, I felt the same way. \nLesson learned. Commercial promotions always make it look too good.",
">\n\nJust look at that Hamburger on the ordering screen and what you get in your hand...",
">\n\nCan we jail some of these people? Seriously, fines are meaningless. Gen pop is the only way these people are ever going to face real consequences.",
">\n\nOh wow. Another case of where the obvious conman broke the law but he'll get away with it because we're living in a system that only cares about the super rich.",
">\n\nSo… Musk committed fraud. That’s not exactly shocking. Nor will it be shocking to watch him get away with it.",
">\n\nStrange this isn't trending on twitter right now...",
">\n\nAs if it matters if it was staged or not? Why would we trust anything Musk says now anyway? Even if there were 500 people who personally worked on the project saying it all works perfectly, we know it doesn’t. We’ve seen all the failures.",
">\n\nElon about to call the engineer a pedo in 3...2...1...",
">\n\n*Surprised Pikachu Face*",
">\n\nTesla is going to be the wildest company of them all to fall. People are going to be stuck with cars that no longer have software to support them or parts to repair them.",
">\n\nA legacy car maker will buy it for the charges and use the battery tech to make a new EV car for their brand. I got money on Toyota, as it would give them something EV while they work on hydrogen",
">\n\nI actually wouldn't mind this move. The tech in Teslas is definitely cool and the biggest knock on them, other than false promises, is quality control. I would think a legacy car maker could really do some amazing things. Hell I think Tesla could do some amazing things if it wasn't treated like some guys play thing.",
">\n\nThey also faked those robot videos and it’s very easy to tell with the box it’s holding changing between shots. Watch thunderf00t expose Musk on YouTube. Musk does this shit all the time.",
">\n\nis the grifter finally going to jail?\n\nno?\n\nwell back to working as a prison guard for these inmates that stole $100 from a cash register for some hookers and blow",
">\n\nIf only he spent that 44 Billion dollars on self driving improvements instead of an $8/m version of Myspace.",
">\n\nStaged - like a burger in a commercial?",
">\n\nIt's almost as though this Musk fellow has been a scumbag snake-oil salesman this whole time.",
">\n\ncan we stop subsidizing tesla now?",
">\n\nI'm just going to assume any video of a Tesla not making a beeline straight for the nearest child is going to be staged.",
">\n\nThe concept of all autonomous cars is great. The road network would have to be upgraded for be smart car navigation , smart roads that give vehicles more information about the roads around them. But traffic lights would be a thing of the past. Fuel consumption can be reduced. Traffic jams gone as information is shared between cars and alternative routes taken.\nUnfortunately this will never happen, most will never give up thier autonomy to a machine.",
">\n\nTesla is starting to feel like Theranos. Misrepresenting claims under the guise of ‘everyone does it’, deliberately misleading info about self driving capabilities, pushing growth before it can even keep up with inventory, inventory that doesn’t hold up to the hype.. at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if Tesla gets sued for misleading investors about growth and self driving capabilities.",
">\n\nWhat?? Next you'll tell me the dancing robot wasn't actually a robot.",
">\n\nIf they stuck to using radar, ir, thermal, and cameras they'd be self driving by now. Doing just camera will never work.",
">\n\nAs bad as it sucks is anyone surprised?",
">\n\nThe merit of a test is in the worst of circumstances.",
">\n\nThe Most Sued Man In History, An Elon Musk Story",
">\n\n7 years and the Twitter me Elons are still waiting for FSD like the mother ship that will lift them off this planet",
">\n\nColour me fucking amazed",
">\n\nIf a company is demoing tech and not putting it in your hands, it’s because it’s fake. I’m sure there is an exception or two to this rule but whatever.",
">\n\nClass action lawsuit please",
">\n\nYou mean that video of a guy in the backseat of his driverless car on the freeway? No?",
">\n\nProphet Muskrat a cheating grifter? Oh how the turn tables.",
">\n\n\nWhen asked if the 2016 video showed the performance of the Tesla Autopilot system available in a production car at the time, Elluswamy said, “It does not.”\n\nHoly misleading headline Batman. He didn’t say it was “staged”, just that anybody who thought it was reflective of production software at the time was an idiot. That video was very clearly demonstrating a prototype.",
">\n\nBob the Broker: \"Can you go lower?!\"\nTesla Stock: \"YES WE CAN!\"",
">\n\nWell, no shit. Every PR video that musk puts out is faked in some way.",
">\n\nMusk really is the guy from Glass Onion. It’s hilarious",
">\n\nHoly shit, tesla is screwed",
">\n\nI highly doubt it",
">\n\nTesla needs to get rid of self driving as a feature and Tesla needs to get rid of Musk as a CEO. \nThose two negative things are becoming what people think of when they think \"Tesla\".",
">\n\nTesla? Lie about something?\nSay. It. Ain't. So.",
">\n\nInvestor fraud and false advertising? Isn’t that what got Theranos? \nMusk will end up in jail at this rate.",
">\n\nGosh, so the bollocks was bollocks. Whodathunk?",
">\n\nOnly with clear roads, good weather, and with a follow car. So not really.",
">\n\nThis is not a race, if this technology doesn't work people die.\nI've honestly been confused af when I saw the level 3 headline. Like if Tesla had the juice they should be flexing the self driving tech. They clearly don't have the juice and I hope Elon gets sued into the ground for what is clearly false and misleading statements to investors.",
">\n\nThe scary thing is that I live by a train yard that serves as a hub for when trains deliver automobiles to our area. I can't tell you how many car transporters I see carrying NOTHING BUT Tesla models. That's all I ever see getting hauled out of there. So many people have been duped (including myself) into thinking Teslas are amazing cars. Thank goodness I never purchased one.",
">\n\nBack when they were first on the scene I'd only see them in affluent areas. When the production ramped up and they started selling cheaper models, I saw them everywhere. Feels like every other car on my morning commute is a Tesla. I just don't get it, especially with all of the other EVs that are now on the market. And I understand status symbols, but this one seems to be tainted as hell at this point.",
">\n\nUsed Tesla prices have plummeted. People want out.",
">\n\nNew Tesla prices just dropped by 20%, back to pre-pandemic levels. Of course used Tesla prices dropped.",
">\n\nBoycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla",
">\n\nWith this price decrease I think i'm buying a performance model 3. too many upsides to not move to electric, and sadly nothing comes close to the intersection of performance, range, and efficiency of a tesla. Also they have such a large charging network.",
">\n\n\nreported on this in 2017\n\n... doesn't make Tesla or Elon any less shitful.",
">\n\nI never said it did or didn't, I'm simply providing context and an opinion that it's likely not fraud.",
">\n\nYour attempt to provide context has failed.",
">\n\nThis is not news in the slightest. \nThe article says directly that the video was released in 2016, and it was made clear in 2016 that it was an edited proof of concept.\nLiterally 0 story here, definition of click bait.\nEdit nothing in this article is new or different, the story is that Tesla is not special.\nEdit 2: I am absolutely wrong, it was confirmed in a deposition during 07/2022, and just released.",
">\n\nNah you're wrong, the (legitimate) news here is that a Tesla engineer quite recently testified under oath giving details about how this video was staged.\nIf it was \"made clear in 2016 that is was an edited proof of concept\" why was musk simultaneously promoting it as evidence of Tesla's self driving capabilities? Maybe there's some fine print somewhere saying otherwise, but why does the video itself say “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”?\nNice try",
">\n\nYou are 100% correct, I’m wrong, completely misread the dates in this article. I found another that said his deposition was in 07/2022, I skipped over that entirely.",
">\n\nTesla pulled one of the greatest grifts of the last decade. \"BuT YoUrE PaYiNg FoR wHaT iT cOuLd Be\"\nDecent enough cars, but let's not pretend FSD wasn't a complete hoodwink.",
">\n\nDecent 😂\nTheir quality is shoddy.\nYou’re paying for the name. That’s it.",
">\n\nSo the F in FSD stands for fraud?",
">\n\nI like thinking it was the “Fake Staged Drive” in-house all along, and Elon thought it’d be funny to use the same acronym FSD publicly.",
">\n\nOh say it ain't so, EM lies! shock / not",
">\n\nArtificially inflating the value of something is the only thing Elon knows how to do.\nAin't that right, Dogecoin?",
">\n\nAnd yet the FSD subscription continues to rise..",
">\n\nI rode in the first Model S and the guy tried to show off the self driving and it went around a bend all nice and then almost blew through a stop sign and he had to slam on the brakes.",
">\n\nOh my! A billionaire has lied to make money at the expense of middle class lives! We are shocked! We are appalled! We are still buying his shit...",
">\n\nThe more innovative tech from the early 2000s turned onto vapor wares, the more I realized our tech never really grew better, just our tech and ability to make tech commercials.\nI am predicting we find out all those ai art is just an content farm in Vietnam or just a basics morpher with a stock image account. 😂",
">\n\nFake it till you make it, just like Theranos",
">\n\nElon and Lizzy Holmes are cut from the same cloth. Elon will end up where Holmes is headed sooner or later",
">\n\nHow is this any different than Theranos or Nikola? \nElizabeth Holmes is in jail for blatantly lying about Theranos blood test prototype's capabilities, \nTrevor Milton is guilty and awaiting sentencing for lying about his prototype truck's capabilities. \nElon Musk, whose lied more times than you can shake a stick at... Nothing... I guess it pays to be the US governments primary method of launching satellites. It pays to have setup factories specifically in Democratic stronghold states (California, Nevada, and New York) while massively benefiting from government subsidies for the construction of those factories, the launching of those starlink satellites, and the sale of those rocket launches, cars, solar panels, home and grid batteries. \nNot to mention the trick of having other OEMs fund the company because of the ZEV credit system devised by California... Which makes sense for that specific state due to the unique smog issues due to overpopulation, the geography of the region, the lack of affordable multi family housing close to business districts, and terrible public transit planning. But yeah, that ZEV system quickly spread to other states where it overwhelmingly benefitted Tesla, even though they were already being rewarded by multiple other EV subsidies. Why reward a sale of a car for it's emissions reduction when you can reward it 3-4x for that one reduction?!\nBut no jail for the guy who quickly became the richest man in the world by way of his constant lies, massive government financial support, and some interesting ponzi-esque schemes with collateralized loans on all the shares and options that he paid no income taxes on. (Tax loophole)",
">\n\n'The Tesla technology [...] “[does] not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.' \nThen maybe you shouldn't call it auto-pilot.",
">\n\nThey are a public company. As Oscar in accounting would say there is a word for this, “fraud.”",
">\n\nWhile it's deeply funny that Tesla is so bad, I think it's also important to note a fundamental injustice here: This is fraud, and no one will go to jail for it. If a normal person lied about something to sell it, they would face stiff financial penalties at best and more likely, especially if they made a lot of money, serious jail time. Because Tesla is a multi-billion dollar corporation, somehow through legal voodoo no one is responsible for this? No one will be punished? And it's not just Tesla that does things like this, all megacorporations are regularly and fragrantly breaking the law with no consequence.",
">\n\nWell Elon is just a fraud so why wouldn't Tesla commit fraud",
">\n\nPeople have died because they believed the fraudulent material in this video. There should be criminal charges filed against employees of Tesla.",
">\n\nI haven't kept up with Tesla's self-driving car stuff in sometime but wasn't it looking incredibly promising during initial trials a few years ago? \nLike, I remember reading on Reddit that the only crashes that occurred where either driver error or other cars intentionally running into them.\nEDIT: Oh for fuck sakes people. It was a genuinely question!",
">\n\nCultists will tell you that their cult is lovely. More at 11.",
">\n\nOk so like I feel like one of the only people who managed my expectations, having a car drive itself is an ENORMOUS challenge, and I think Tesla have done really well so far. People are expecting too much after only a few years of development.\nFrom what I can tell the cars do a pretty damn good job and of course there are plenty of scenarios that throw off the computer and make it screw up. Like bad weather, roadworks etc.\nBut I have been pretty impressed with how it has progressed. Musk and his stupid stunts aside, the Tesla cars actually seem pretty revolutionary in my opinion. Maybe they hyped it up too much and so people are expecting some next level shit but I think so far it's been really cool.",
">\n\nA telsa owner filmed himself trying to get his car to make a left turn out of a parking lot and park on the street in front of him. About a 20ft drive. It got halfway through the left turn and broke down in the middle of the road.\nIf that is revolutionary, then I've got so many bridges to sell you.\nAnd we are a decade into \"development\" and it hasn't progressed...at all.",
">\n\nDo I smell lawsuits incoming? False advertising might finally stick against Tesla! The definitely got sales because of the video in question",
">\n\nCalling BS. Musky has met all of the timelines and never lied to anyone.",
">\n\n… are you on crack",
">\n\nI’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes.",
">\n\nCyberpunk 2077 managed to get out of beta and actually become a game.\nIf Tesla's autopilot is a video game, I'm getting Star Citizen vibes.",
">\n\nDesigned for rich gamers who want to just fuck around in some overly designed game that has no business being a thing?",
">\n\nAnd which is stuck in an endless alpha state, never meeting the advertised expectations.",
">\n\nI can't really imagine Tesla going fully bankrupt and closing down, there would likely be a buyout from I dunno GM, ford, etc. But if Tesla just vanished the current tesla owners are so screwed.",
">\n\nSad thing is that your 401k is probably invested in them because of the unrealistic growth.",
">\n\nIn logistics. There are so many variables that come into play during trucking and logistics. This shit is not happening for a long time folks. Sorry.",
">\n\nHope space x isn’t pulling this shit.",
">\n\nSo everything that comes out of Silicon Valley is built on lies and false advertising",
">\n\nOkay but what about the pornos that were made while a Tesla was self driving?"
] |
I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.
|
[] |
>
Yeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down."
] |
>
Damn it, I was too slow to respond to that "Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine" guy.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear."
] |
>
It's scorched into my absurd community memories list.
Up there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy."
] |
>
That's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war."
] |
>
It might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches."
] |
>
One day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.
I look forward to visiting that day.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train."
] |
>
It will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day."
] |
>
I like him, he sounds smart.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof."
] |
>
One of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:
Russia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so "we" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??
Realize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease.
Don't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda.
And don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart."
] |
>
It doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.
Russia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State."
] |
>
Estimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):
|Category |Change*|Total |
|:---|:---|:---|
|Personnel |+820 |117770 |
|Tanks |+9 |3130 |
|APVs |+10 |6225 |
|Artillery |+4 |2108 |
|MLRS |+1 |442 |
|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |
|Aircraft |+1 |287 |
|Helicopters |- |276 |
|UAVs |+4 |1876 |
|Missiles |- |749 |
|Warships / Boats |- |17 |
|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |
|Special Equipment |- |190 |
*Change since the previous day.
Source: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind."
] |
>
These numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine"
] |
>
And they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?"
] |
>
Exactly how I feel about this.
Imagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months."
] |
>
Holy f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍"
] |
>
I like her, she sounds smart.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!"
] |
>
Basically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart."
] |
>
It's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun."
] |
>
In a few years?
(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)
^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created."
] |
>
Slava Ukraini!!!
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing."
] |
>
Heroyam Slava!!!
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!"
] |
>
“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!"
] |
>
The US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!"
] |
>
Can someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?
Lastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly?
I can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market."
] |
>
I don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again.."
] |
>
Yeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his "announcements" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes."
] |
>
I'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.
But Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.
All I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson."
] |
>
Fuck Putin
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini."
] |
>
with a barbed wire pineapple
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin"
] |
>
Day CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple"
] |
>
Ahh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX."
] |
>
It's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.
I know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.
They have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine.
How is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post."
] |
>
Lots of Russian emigres in Israel
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war."
] |
>
20% of Israelis speek Russian.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel"
] |
>
I wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?
Most likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian."
] |
>
Those russians have kids I presume.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy"
] |
>
Putin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.
Not sure what NATOs response would be.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume."
] |
>
Putin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use
Source?
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be."
] |
>
He is a known "making up crazy shit nutso." Disregard entirely.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be.",
">\n\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use\n\nSource?"
] |
>
People forget that Russia still has a lot they can throw at this war
Eh, I don't think that's true anymore. Surplus store stuff maybe.
newer weapons systems
One thing has become evident is that the advertised brochure of Russia's weapon systems is not at all what was being produced. I doubt they have working and reliable newer weapons systems. They already threw their BMP-T's into the fray. They've thrown their T-90's. The T-15 is still in a prototype phase and likely of no use in a combat environment (I imagine one reason is the anti-missile system probably doesn't work, so it'd be fed to a Javelin so quick). The SU-57's, if they were used (rumored), do so from a standoff distance because they're about as stealthy as my uncle sneaking in from the bar.
reserve soldiers stationed elsewhere
Assuming they haven't rotated a lot of those soldiers through. They need a lot of those soldiers to maintain the existing bases and defense network, it's a big country.
chemical weapons, etc.
This I'll give you, and I was expecting to see it at the steelworks. But the fact they haven't used them like they were used in Syria indicates that it may be a line he won't risk crossing. Plus, chemical weapons have proven time and time again in conflicts to put a lot of risk towards your own troops.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be.",
">\n\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use\n\nSource?",
">\n\nHe is a known \"making up crazy shit nutso.\" Disregard entirely."
] |
>
The t14 and elite forces and su 57 are arriving anytime now. Lmao
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be.",
">\n\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use\n\nSource?",
">\n\nHe is a known \"making up crazy shit nutso.\" Disregard entirely.",
">\n\n\nPeople forget that Russia still has a lot they can throw at this war\n\nEh, I don't think that's true anymore. Surplus store stuff maybe.\n\nnewer weapons systems\n\nOne thing has become evident is that the advertised brochure of Russia's weapon systems is not at all what was being produced. I doubt they have working and reliable newer weapons systems. They already threw their BMP-T's into the fray. They've thrown their T-90's. The T-15 is still in a prototype phase and likely of no use in a combat environment (I imagine one reason is the anti-missile system probably doesn't work, so it'd be fed to a Javelin so quick). The SU-57's, if they were used (rumored), do so from a standoff distance because they're about as stealthy as my uncle sneaking in from the bar.\n\nreserve soldiers stationed elsewhere\n\nAssuming they haven't rotated a lot of those soldiers through. They need a lot of those soldiers to maintain the existing bases and defense network, it's a big country. \n\nchemical weapons, etc.\n\nThis I'll give you, and I was expecting to see it at the steelworks. But the fact they haven't used them like they were used in Syria indicates that it may be a line he won't risk crossing. Plus, chemical weapons have proven time and time again in conflicts to put a lot of risk towards your own troops."
] |
>
T14 you are almost certainly right
"Elite forces" (Specnatz, VDV etc.) are part of the invasion from the very start
Su57 is flying combat mission in Ukraine at least since July, or so claims the UK MoD
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be.",
">\n\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use\n\nSource?",
">\n\nHe is a known \"making up crazy shit nutso.\" Disregard entirely.",
">\n\n\nPeople forget that Russia still has a lot they can throw at this war\n\nEh, I don't think that's true anymore. Surplus store stuff maybe.\n\nnewer weapons systems\n\nOne thing has become evident is that the advertised brochure of Russia's weapon systems is not at all what was being produced. I doubt they have working and reliable newer weapons systems. They already threw their BMP-T's into the fray. They've thrown their T-90's. The T-15 is still in a prototype phase and likely of no use in a combat environment (I imagine one reason is the anti-missile system probably doesn't work, so it'd be fed to a Javelin so quick). The SU-57's, if they were used (rumored), do so from a standoff distance because they're about as stealthy as my uncle sneaking in from the bar.\n\nreserve soldiers stationed elsewhere\n\nAssuming they haven't rotated a lot of those soldiers through. They need a lot of those soldiers to maintain the existing bases and defense network, it's a big country. \n\nchemical weapons, etc.\n\nThis I'll give you, and I was expecting to see it at the steelworks. But the fact they haven't used them like they were used in Syria indicates that it may be a line he won't risk crossing. Plus, chemical weapons have proven time and time again in conflicts to put a lot of risk towards your own troops.",
">\n\nThe t14 and elite forces and su 57 are arriving anytime now. Lmao"
] |
>
Still part of the fight. You are correct tho, shoulve mention it.
As the previous comment was sarcastic, he is right the t14 won't arrive.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be.",
">\n\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use\n\nSource?",
">\n\nHe is a known \"making up crazy shit nutso.\" Disregard entirely.",
">\n\n\nPeople forget that Russia still has a lot they can throw at this war\n\nEh, I don't think that's true anymore. Surplus store stuff maybe.\n\nnewer weapons systems\n\nOne thing has become evident is that the advertised brochure of Russia's weapon systems is not at all what was being produced. I doubt they have working and reliable newer weapons systems. They already threw their BMP-T's into the fray. They've thrown their T-90's. The T-15 is still in a prototype phase and likely of no use in a combat environment (I imagine one reason is the anti-missile system probably doesn't work, so it'd be fed to a Javelin so quick). The SU-57's, if they were used (rumored), do so from a standoff distance because they're about as stealthy as my uncle sneaking in from the bar.\n\nreserve soldiers stationed elsewhere\n\nAssuming they haven't rotated a lot of those soldiers through. They need a lot of those soldiers to maintain the existing bases and defense network, it's a big country. \n\nchemical weapons, etc.\n\nThis I'll give you, and I was expecting to see it at the steelworks. But the fact they haven't used them like they were used in Syria indicates that it may be a line he won't risk crossing. Plus, chemical weapons have proven time and time again in conflicts to put a lot of risk towards your own troops.",
">\n\nThe t14 and elite forces and su 57 are arriving anytime now. Lmao",
">\n\nT14 you are almost certainly right \n\"Elite forces\" (Specnatz, VDV etc.) are part of the invasion from the very start\nSu57 is flying combat mission in Ukraine at least since July, or so claims the UK MoD"
] |
>
Ah gotcha.
Thought I missed something. Thanks.
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be.",
">\n\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use\n\nSource?",
">\n\nHe is a known \"making up crazy shit nutso.\" Disregard entirely.",
">\n\n\nPeople forget that Russia still has a lot they can throw at this war\n\nEh, I don't think that's true anymore. Surplus store stuff maybe.\n\nnewer weapons systems\n\nOne thing has become evident is that the advertised brochure of Russia's weapon systems is not at all what was being produced. I doubt they have working and reliable newer weapons systems. They already threw their BMP-T's into the fray. They've thrown their T-90's. The T-15 is still in a prototype phase and likely of no use in a combat environment (I imagine one reason is the anti-missile system probably doesn't work, so it'd be fed to a Javelin so quick). The SU-57's, if they were used (rumored), do so from a standoff distance because they're about as stealthy as my uncle sneaking in from the bar.\n\nreserve soldiers stationed elsewhere\n\nAssuming they haven't rotated a lot of those soldiers through. They need a lot of those soldiers to maintain the existing bases and defense network, it's a big country. \n\nchemical weapons, etc.\n\nThis I'll give you, and I was expecting to see it at the steelworks. But the fact they haven't used them like they were used in Syria indicates that it may be a line he won't risk crossing. Plus, chemical weapons have proven time and time again in conflicts to put a lot of risk towards your own troops.",
">\n\nThe t14 and elite forces and su 57 are arriving anytime now. Lmao",
">\n\nT14 you are almost certainly right \n\"Elite forces\" (Specnatz, VDV etc.) are part of the invasion from the very start\nSu57 is flying combat mission in Ukraine at least since July, or so claims the UK MoD",
">\n\nStill part of the fight. You are correct tho, shoulve mention it.\nAs the previous comment was sarcastic, he is right the t14 won't arrive."
] |
>
|
[
"I've never seen a ceiling do that! Normally, it just collapses from the water build up, and continues to drip down.",
">\n\nYeah I don't quite understand what was going on in that shot. The material must be some sort of rubber or something to flex that severely and not tear.",
">\n\nDamn it, I was too slow to respond to that \"Germany could be planning to invade Ukraine\" guy.",
">\n\nIt's scorched into my absurd community memories list.\nUp there with the guy asking for links to live streams from Ukranian troop helmet cams during the first few days of the war.",
">\n\nThat's pretty crazy. They just left their comrades bodies a few feet from where they are, and are just sitting around in the trenches.",
">\n\nIt might also be the fact they don’t want to die, and just needed a reason to stop the train.",
">\n\nOne day, this war will be over, and Ukrainians and other welcome free peoples will be able to freely travel with safety and confidence across the full body of their country.\nI look forward to visiting that day.",
">\n\nIt will be awesome to visit a free and thriving Ukraine, the tourism industry will go through the roof.",
">\n\nI like him, he sounds smart.",
">\n\nOne of the latest RU propaganda points that keeps making the rounds now. Some usually vague and muddied version of:\nRussia has more people / tanks / new equipment / chemical / newks / will to escalate so \"we\" should all just negotiate or give up now cause it makes sense right??\nRealize that the reasons provided do not matter in the slightest - the entire goal is to try to sway public opinion to believe that it makes sense to appease. \nDon't fall for the bluff, it's all hot air with an agenda. \nAnd don't forget: Russia is a Terrorist State.",
">\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. It's not WW1 or WW2 where guns, tanks and artillery were, well, not that great.\nRussia has shown their modernized equipment, tactics and stratagem is still 60 years behind.",
">\n\nEstimated Russian losses from 24.02.2022 to 18.01.2023 (Day 329):\n|Category |Change*|Total |\n|:---|:---|:---|\n|Personnel |+820 |117770 |\n|Tanks |+9 |3130 |\n|APVs |+10 |6225 |\n|Artillery |+4 |2108 |\n|MLRS |+1 |442 |\n|Anti-aircraft Systems |- |220 |\n|Aircraft |+1 |287 |\n|Helicopters |- |276 |\n|UAVs |+4 |1876 |\n|Missiles |- |749 |\n|Warships / Boats |- |17 |\n|Other Vehicles |+12 |4889 |\n|Special Equipment |- |190 |\n*Change since the previous day.\nSource: The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine",
">\n\nThese numbers are insane... like almost a year into the war and a +820?",
">\n\nAnd they've been pretty consitant too the last few months.",
">\n\nExactly how I feel about this.\nImagine Wagner infrantry-rushing it!😍",
">\n\nHoly f'ing shit. Yeah, send that also!!",
">\n\nI like her, she sounds smart.",
">\n\nBasically committing their entire society to full militarization? Russia seems hellbent on doing a North Korea speedrun.",
">\n\nIt's going to be hilarious when in a few years Ukraine will be more powerful than Putins shithole he created.",
">\n\nIn a few years?\n(sorry, couldn't resist, unlike Ukraine)\n \n^^I ^^also ^^couldn't ^^resist ^^the ^^cheesiness ^^in ^^the ^^brackets. ^^I ^^regret ^^nothing.",
">\n\nSlava Ukraini!!!",
">\n\nHeroyam Slava!!!",
">\n\n“Pre-conflict, it was pretty rare for Indian refiners to process Russian crude,” says Alan Gelder, refining expert at Wood Mackenzie. “Now, about one in five barrels of the crude oil that they process is Russian. That is war profiteering or so-called blood oil. Thanks, India!",
">\n\nThe US has encouraged India to buy Russian oil under the agreed upon price cap, acknowledging that it’s not fair to ask a large developing country to make the same economic sacrifices as much wealthier economies. While Russia is better off selling oil to India compared to selling nothing at all, it’s still probably at a big loss compared to selling on the open global market.",
">\n\nCan someone explain to me how Putin declaring war changes things? other than turning the country into a war economy and the ability to mobilize more people. Although I've read technically the decree of the last mobilization never actually ended, so does that mean he doesn't have to announce another round of mobilization?\nLastly in theory if Putin doesn't want domestic backlash, could he declare war without stating it publicly? \nI can't wait for this fucking predicted speech to pass, every goddamn time Putin might speak. Everyone goes full on crazy speculation that this is the speech that changes everything!! It reminds me of May 9th (Victory Day) all over again..",
">\n\nI don't think he's gonna announce anything significant. Just gonna rant about Anglo-Saxons, fighting NATO, maybe gonna hint at nukes.",
">\n\nYeah honestly, I think it'll be that too. People hype up his \"announcements\" every single time, and it always just ends up being some alternative history lesson.",
">\n\nI'm remembering now how tense things were getting geopolitically in 2020 before COVID. Part of me thinks COVID is the reason Russia didn't move sooner while they had a more favourable US president.\nBut Putin must have also been influenced by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, thinking that America wouldn't have the appetite for more foreign intervention. So maybe it was always going to happen in early 2022.\nAll I know for sure is fuck Putin and Slava Ukraini.",
">\n\nFuck Putin",
">\n\nwith a barbed wire pineapple",
">\n\nDay CCCXXIX, Part I. Thread CDLXX.",
">\n\nAhh thank you for bringing my brain back from the depths of the secret German spring invasion of Ukraine post.",
">\n\nIt's kind of crazy how little Israel has given Ukraine. They're one of the wealthiest nations per capita and probably the most beefed up militarily per capita.\nI know they're afraid given their history of wars with neighbors, but they're currently fighting adolescents with rocks. Their iron dome takes care of the rest.\nThey have one of the most advanced defense industry, yet they can't give even simple things to Ukraine. \nHow is it that the country made up of Holocaust survivors cannot see what Russia is doing? Israel is afraid to go against Russia. Let that sink in. Israel is afraid to go against the country currently committing a genocide. Russia literally bombed a Holocaust Memorial in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war.",
">\n\nLots of Russian emigres in Israel",
">\n\n20% of Israelis speek Russian.",
">\n\nI wonder what strata of Israeli society that 20% occupies. Probably not under 30 worker drones?\nMost likely boomers that have a say in Israeli politics/policy",
">\n\nThose russians have kids I presume.",
">\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use, facial hair prevents a tight seal on protective facewear.\nNot sure what NATOs response would be.",
">\n\n\nPutin has ordered his troops be clean shaven. Speculation suggests that it is preparing for chemical weapon use\n\nSource?",
">\n\nHe is a known \"making up crazy shit nutso.\" Disregard entirely.",
">\n\n\nPeople forget that Russia still has a lot they can throw at this war\n\nEh, I don't think that's true anymore. Surplus store stuff maybe.\n\nnewer weapons systems\n\nOne thing has become evident is that the advertised brochure of Russia's weapon systems is not at all what was being produced. I doubt they have working and reliable newer weapons systems. They already threw their BMP-T's into the fray. They've thrown their T-90's. The T-15 is still in a prototype phase and likely of no use in a combat environment (I imagine one reason is the anti-missile system probably doesn't work, so it'd be fed to a Javelin so quick). The SU-57's, if they were used (rumored), do so from a standoff distance because they're about as stealthy as my uncle sneaking in from the bar.\n\nreserve soldiers stationed elsewhere\n\nAssuming they haven't rotated a lot of those soldiers through. They need a lot of those soldiers to maintain the existing bases and defense network, it's a big country. \n\nchemical weapons, etc.\n\nThis I'll give you, and I was expecting to see it at the steelworks. But the fact they haven't used them like they were used in Syria indicates that it may be a line he won't risk crossing. Plus, chemical weapons have proven time and time again in conflicts to put a lot of risk towards your own troops.",
">\n\nThe t14 and elite forces and su 57 are arriving anytime now. Lmao",
">\n\nT14 you are almost certainly right \n\"Elite forces\" (Specnatz, VDV etc.) are part of the invasion from the very start\nSu57 is flying combat mission in Ukraine at least since July, or so claims the UK MoD",
">\n\nStill part of the fight. You are correct tho, shoulve mention it.\nAs the previous comment was sarcastic, he is right the t14 won't arrive.",
">\n\nAh gotcha.\nThought I missed something. Thanks."
] |
“We’ve been very clear. The President’s been very clear. It’s everybody’s duty to make sure the United States pays its bills on time,” Van Hollen said. “There will be no negotiations over the debt ceiling and paying our bills on time.”
I am sick and tired of these debt ceiling deadlines. These are obligations passed by previous legislation.
If Republicans are so concerned about the debt, maybe pass laws to increase the revenue on the rich and stop stealing from the poor.
|
[] |
>
Couldn't agree more, but currently the Republicans are trying to stop the IRS collecting more tax.
And they also key supporters of unsupportable Military budgets.
They can't have it both ways, but I reluctantly agree with them, that debt everywhere is becoming a critical issue.
|
[
"“We’ve been very clear. The President’s been very clear. It’s everybody’s duty to make sure the United States pays its bills on time,” Van Hollen said. “There will be no negotiations over the debt ceiling and paying our bills on time.”\n\nI am sick and tired of these debt ceiling deadlines. These are obligations passed by previous legislation.\nIf Republicans are so concerned about the debt, maybe pass laws to increase the revenue on the rich and stop stealing from the poor."
] |
>
I live in a staunch GOP district. My congressman is a strong proponent of balanced budgets and cutting the deficit. Yet he voted for Trumps tax cuts ($1.5 trillion added to the deficit over a decade) and two budgets with higher deficits than Obama’s last budget. Now he’s screaming about the debt again. The GOP is only interested in the deficit when there is a Democratic president as far as I can tell.
|
[
"“We’ve been very clear. The President’s been very clear. It’s everybody’s duty to make sure the United States pays its bills on time,” Van Hollen said. “There will be no negotiations over the debt ceiling and paying our bills on time.”\n\nI am sick and tired of these debt ceiling deadlines. These are obligations passed by previous legislation.\nIf Republicans are so concerned about the debt, maybe pass laws to increase the revenue on the rich and stop stealing from the poor.",
">\n\nCouldn't agree more, but currently the Republicans are trying to stop the IRS collecting more tax.\nAnd they also key supporters of unsupportable Military budgets.\nThey can't have it both ways, but I reluctantly agree with them, that debt everywhere is becoming a critical issue."
] |
>
Yes I'm sure you're right just another talking point for Republicans, like The Wall, but really at sometime this ever increasing debt will destabilise the currency and the economy.
|
[
"“We’ve been very clear. The President’s been very clear. It’s everybody’s duty to make sure the United States pays its bills on time,” Van Hollen said. “There will be no negotiations over the debt ceiling and paying our bills on time.”\n\nI am sick and tired of these debt ceiling deadlines. These are obligations passed by previous legislation.\nIf Republicans are so concerned about the debt, maybe pass laws to increase the revenue on the rich and stop stealing from the poor.",
">\n\nCouldn't agree more, but currently the Republicans are trying to stop the IRS collecting more tax.\nAnd they also key supporters of unsupportable Military budgets.\nThey can't have it both ways, but I reluctantly agree with them, that debt everywhere is becoming a critical issue.",
">\n\nI live in a staunch GOP district. My congressman is a strong proponent of balanced budgets and cutting the deficit. Yet he voted for Trumps tax cuts ($1.5 trillion added to the deficit over a decade) and two budgets with higher deficits than Obama’s last budget. Now he’s screaming about the debt again. The GOP is only interested in the deficit when there is a Democratic president as far as I can tell."
] |
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