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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvGKxDlXgvQ
|
/r/videos/comments/qpei1d/old_man_parks_his_car_in_a_tight_spot/
|
[
"Amazing",
"Sometimes tbose Forza Horizon XP boards are in tight spots!",
"Sometimes being lazy is a lot more work than it's worth",
"What language is he speaking?"
] | 4 |
videos
|
Old Man Parks His Car in a Tight Spot
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWmbJuXjuzU
|
/r/videos/comments/qpelvw/autumn_in_new_york_cycling_through_south_brooklyn/
|
[
"OMG! My wife is dying. A NYC square pizza?! What a sacrilege! 🙃",
"Soon they'll have one in DUMBO!",
"A rule of thumb for me is- if it's good pizza, it's worth the ride and I'll document the journey. I'm not a critic, I'm just a dude who eats a lot of pizza and loves riding bikes.. er.. trikes. Thanks for watching!",
"Yes! But will it be as good????",
"Don't kick it till you've tried it. They've been making these squares since 1939 and they're delicious",
"I grew up in Bensonhurst and ate there regularly in the 70s and 80s. The recipe has changed slightly over the years and it's not as good as it once was.\n\nI guarantee if you turn that bike around and go down 86th in the other direction, you'll get a better slice of Sicilian at Lenny's on 20th ave, or any other pizzeria down 18th ave.",
"Is that a joke? Sicilian / square pizza is incredibly common in New York. It's better than standard round pizza.",
"Lenny's is on my list! I'll definitely be stopping by there soon. I'm all ears for other recommendations as well.",
"If you happen upon a riceball (arancini) or zeppoles, get some. Food of the gods.",
"Yes, it’s a joke. I love both styles but she insists only pie slices are pizza. 😄",
"I knew it was LnB the second I read \"South Brooklyn\".\n\nWhile the Pizza is definitely unique and worth a try, the people that work there have become assholes. They will absolutely give you stale pizza that has been sitting out for a while. So if it's quiet and you see a tray of pizza with a couple of slices and you're next, absolutely leave and rejoin the line to get fresh slices.\n\nThey were also weird about giving change for a $20... said they didn't have any money, this place is absolutely packed almost 24/7...",
"Sorry to hear about your experiences. I can understand why that would turn you off to them. Fortunately, I've only had great experiences there. I almost always order a half tray since I'm traveling, so I'm sure that helps me avoid any freshness issues.",
"Oh yeah, I love me some arancini. Villabate Alba has the goods."
] | 13 |
videos
|
Autumn in New York, cycling through south Brooklyn on the way to get the best square pizza in the city
|
https://youtu.be/6idgTVbHAoM?t=191
|
/r/videos/comments/qper3h/rage_against_the_machine_pause_gig_to_stop_a/
|
[
"Posting examples of bands giving the slightest fuck about the wellbeing of their audiences at concerts is so hot right now.",
"With all the videos being posted of sensible bands pausing gigs to control crowds, I have to post this one that I experienced myself in 2008. Rage had been taking a break and hadn't been seen live for 7-8 years and had returned amidst the 2008 recession, so moods were tense(r than usual - it was customary for Leeds Festival back then to have a riot and burn down half the arena on the last day of the festival), the crowd was pumped, and it was a perfect storm for a passionate crowd.\n\nThey were barely half way through their second song, Bombtrack, when Zack paused the gig to request the whole crowd step back. The atmosphere of it was palpable, the speakers dead silent at headline slot prime time. They dove straight back into their set once people stepped back and a few people were lifted over the barrier for medical attention, but the gig definitely had an energy about it after that. Can't imagine what would've happened if they didn't have the sense to pause.",
"Most people who frequent gigs have experienced this at least once, I think people are just sharing their personal experiences :)",
"I was there, possibly same distance but left side of the stage and it was really surreal. Some people were complaining near by because they wanted to bounce around, and I heard rumours back at camp/the enxt day that someone had broken their leg. \n\n\nMy main memory from that performance though was how bad the sound from the speakers was! If i remember correctly Queens of the stone age were on before and sounded awesome :v"
] | 4 |
videos
|
Rage Against The Machine pause gig to stop a crowd crush at Leeds Festival, 2008
|
https://youtu.be/zBl4DDjNGjY
|
/r/videos/comments/qpeswj/iphone_13_face_id_and_how_apple_is_targeting/
|
[
"Makes a lot of sense. A lot of editing in the video.",
"Limiting freedom. Buy a different phone and stop whining that Apple wants to be able to repair their phones. You want cheap buy any other phone. This should not be that difficult. You buy an expensive car you will need to take it back to the dealer for tune ups to preserve the warranty. What Apple is doing is not new.\n\nKeep downvoting because you don’t like what is said but nevertheless it’s true. You are free to buy any phone you can dismantle and do whatever you like, but if you want the manufacturer to back this don’t buy Apple.",
"IUsedNoNam3, I have been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty",
"I know. You send emails daily.",
"Apple = ECorp",
"While I agree with you in some ways, the point being made here for the right to repair movement, is that I *should* be able to still take it to someone else besides the dealer without them sabotaging the car. Sure, I buy a Jag and I should probably take it to the dealership since they specialize in that. However, if I take it to some bloke up the street, Jag has no right to permanently turn my engine off for a car that I own. \n\nWhen you buy something, it is yours and the company that sold it to you should not be able to dictate how you upkeep the product. Deactivating parts that you try to fix, when they are yours to fix is complete BS. That product is no longer the companies property.",
"I'm for right to repair. But there's one major argument I have for Apple, though I do not think it outweigh the opposing ones.\n\nApple have since last year made a commitment and a plan to be fully carbon neutral across the full business. This includes supply chain but also the full product life cycle. \n\nPreventing, or at least making it extremely unattractive for someone to use a third party gives them full control over this process. Including recycling.\n\nIt is likely correct to assume that third-party spare part production will be less environmentally friendly, be it manufacturing, transportation, sourcing of raw material etc. \nThe same, but to a lesser degree, goes for third-party repair but with Apple original parts. One of the things Apple have put focus on is recycling and reusing recycled material, primarily rare earth metals, in the production of new phones. It is likely correct to assume that a third-party repair would as a whole will do a worse job here.\n\nJust like with most things, we're trading sustainability for comfort and price. Some things we really should sacrifice comfort and price for, but not in all cases.",
"I think apples policies will have a net negative impact on their environmental impact. 3rd party repair centres often offer a greater range of repairs and offering repairs at a different price point will inevitably lead to fewer devices going to into landfill. \n\nAdditionally, many 3rd party repair parts are often produced at the same factories as original parts in a 'ghost shift' where the factory produces more than they are contracted for and sell the remainder for extra profit.",
"Apple doesn't give a shit about becoming carbon neutral. If you think they're making a 'serious' push for it consider this:\n\n~No charging block comes with their phone~\n\n- consumer needs charging block\n\n- consumer goes to get a third party charging block from store \n\n- consumer must throw away third-party packaging \n\nor the big one\n\n- Most of their products go obsolete and they refuse to allow you to upgrade your own components which creates waste. \n\nThey're just pushing it off their own company for PR. \n\nThe third party packaging is probably going to contain more plastic than the original iphone packaging due to no need for PR appeal and lack of ethical constraints.\n\nI can't believe people are stupid enough to still side with apple.",
"Why does anyone want Face ID anyway? Same with fingerprint reads. It's funny that people give this up so freely but then tout \"security and privacy\" at the same time.",
"I have had the last 7 or so samsung S phones. Never once had to replace a screen. Apple needs to make a better product.",
"I even tried to make it totally clear that I did not side with Apple?\n\nI guess in the black and white world, any hint of gray is black.",
"Well, depends if these screens are dying or people are dropping the fuck out of them which every dumbass does",
"My S7 Edge developed pink line after 5 years of use. Went to Samsung certified service and paid for screen replacement. What I got was new battery, new buttons, new glass and screen (higher resolution as well), new aluminum body. Pretty much new phone for the price of screen replacement. Device is still going strong and used daily. And that's the only issue I had with Samsung devices since S2 which was my first phone.",
"I wont be surprised if we see a news title in the near future that says something like \"Louis dies in freak wanking accident\" but we all know Apple offed him.",
"I mean, just because you don't understand how this info is stored on your device, how it's secured, and how it's validated, doesn't mean it's not secure. It means you just lack the knowledge.",
"Literally nothing can be secured with a two way connection to the outside world. Exploits will always appear, that's like day one cyber security.\n\nEdit: Securing something isn't just fixing it and it's fixed forever, it's a constant battle because any other component from software to hardware may be exploitable at some point or another to give someone the ability to appear as the user/admin. Why would you give them fingerprint and facial data knowing that? (More-so on the fingerprint side of things)\n\nThe saying \"two can keep a secret if one of them is dead\" is pretty apt. True security cannot exist and it's a stupid selling point, literally lying to consumers as PR.\n\nApple acquired AuthenTech and used them for Touch ID chances are the only thing in the way is a private key, given enough effort that's not too hard to crack these days, especially with processors starting to lean more towards cracking long complicated strings. We're reaching a sort of event horizon where 256 bit encryption is not enough and willful parties will absolutely exploit that. It probably won't affect the average user other than causing some worry but it's going to become a problem in the next few years, it only takes one exploit.",
"Can't they get the same information just from you staring at your screen all day?",
"Read the edit in my other comment, the fingerprint data is more important than facial data given that you can retrieve facial data from social media.\n\nApple products selling this move on security is disengenuous though and losing face ID really isn't that big of a loss given it's not that secure anyway. They're just phones lol, there's nothing special about them.",
"You can't even access the touch id data directly from the OS. it has a completely separate pass through to a separate chip, with it's own security. \n\nalso this:\n> We're reaching a sort of event horizon where 256 bit encryption is not enough and willful parties will absolutely exploit that.\n\nhas nothing to do with the topic. AES256 is not cracked yet. it doesn't matter how close, it's just not there. Maybe with quantum computing it will be. And you saying \"it only takes one exploit\" proves that you are uneducated on how 2 key encryption works.\n\nListen big dog, you don't want to use your thumb, that's fine. I'm not worried that they'll \"get my thumbprint\", because that data isn't ever exportable. If someone get's my phone, they just want to get in it, not extract thumb print data. same goes for facial mapping data. \n\nYou just don't fully understand this topic. You know enough to sound like you do at a party, but not to a fucking fat loser nerd like me. sorry bro, this chunga-chad has you beat on this one.",
"Well I guess good chat then? It takes less time for me to punch in a few digits than to sit there and hold my thumb over a sensor, may as well just take it out and shave off a few decimals of a mm. Theres no good reason for it to be there in the first place, it's not even convenient, we already went through this trend in laptops.\n\nI'll bow out gracefully and accept I should be better read on this one, I still don't trust it and see it as totally pointless. Thanks for not being a dick about it though, it's fun to pick away at. With the right fingerprint data someone could theoretically wreak havoc, I know a few places being able to spoof one would cause major issues.",
">\tWe're reaching a sort of event horizon where 256 bit encryption is not enough and willful parties will absolutely exploit that\n\nNo we’re not. [Not even with quantum computing](https://www.ubiqsecurity.com/blog/128bit-or-256bit-encryption-which-to-use/).",
"This is news to me, I already admitted I should be better read on this, especially given my field. I guess a better way of phrasing it would be to say that while it hasn't been cracked yet the window of time it will take is shrinking and it's happening fast 256 will not last forever and the data stored under it today will be useful to anyone who'd like to use it in the future.\n\nSaying it's uncrackable admits that we're at a technological pinical, saying it's crackable eventually admits the data we store today is not secure.",
"Well there are many products out there that void warranties if you open them. Why? Because there will be people that open them then want the manufacturer to replace. There will be people that exploit this have no doubt. The phone is expensive for a reason. It works and it works well. What is so difficult about sending the phone into Apple to have it fixed? It will come back to you with warranty in tact and fixed. You are counting on 3 party repair shops to carry this? Why would Apple allow just anyone to work on their product? Their OS is close but for some reason you think they will just let anyone fool around inside the device? This is not a limit on freedom. This is preserving a product’s quality. You buy Apple for a reason. They start letting people fix their own devices that quality drops. This whining about letting people fix their own devices will pass with no changes. You can’t afford to maintain it you should not buy it.",
"As far as you taking the car anywhere…You can buy the warranty is no longer valid. It’s a legal document, you don’t hold up your end they are no longer responsible. Sabotage is not the concern here. It’s the documentation that you held up your end of the deal you agreed on. This protects you and the manufacturer. There is peace of mind in arrangements like this.",
"IUsedNoNam3, I have been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty",
"> consumer needs charging block\n> \n> consumer goes to get a third party charging block from store\n\nfwiw, the majority of people buying new phones at this point are replacing old phones and have perfectly functioning chargers already. Apple would have had the data to know exactly how many people would be affected by their decision to not include a charger, and I'm certain that number is small (relative to how many iPhone users are out there).",
"ECorp covered up a toxic gas leak that killed people and you're comparing that to Apple making their phones harder to repair...",
"people actually think this lmao",
"Void our warranty makes sense. Turn off Face ID functionality if you replace the screen yourself? Doesn’t make sense.",
"Apple is a cancer to society. Fuck them.",
"You do know it's illegal for a company to void a warranty solely for opening a device right?",
"There is/are youtube video(s) where someone tried to make a fake fingerprint, and fake face, and both worked. but they got the fake fingerprint/face with consent. \n\nwas much harder. the data was easily exportable, it would simply spoof an app requesting a fingerprint, and sniff into what's happening\n\nso making face masks and fingerprints was the easier solution.\n\nregardless, you make a good point. numbers are fool proof. the government cant legally force you to own your phone without a court order, but they can make you show your face, so there's that..."
] | 31 |
videos
|
iPhone 13 Face ID and how Apple is targeting independent repair
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A&t=35s
|
/r/videos/comments/qpf0zk/not_only_have_these_maniacs_not_stop_their_show/
|
[
"What a tragedy. We need to ban Tenacious D.",
"Well in all fairness, he didn't mean to blow his mind..",
"not even the only time they did this. smh \n\n\nhttps://youtu.be/mQUVwbzmwFw?t=173",
"At least this was a good song. It was an honorable death.",
"Even said sorry. But apparently that shit happens to him all the tiiiiiiime.",
"Sometimes we blame the artists but I think it's really revealing incident about the collective as well",
"He did apologize though, so all good",
"He also apologized",
"Aren't they now considered a walking violation of the Geneva Code and forbidden to perform? In fact, i don't understand how this video is allows to still be online, it is clearly a danger to the society.",
"*clutches pearls* \n\nThat is outrageous! That poor fan. Where are the lawsuits!?!?!?!?!?!",
"What I don't fully comprehend with my pathetic mortal mind is how Kyle Gass pulled off growing 4 more arms during hit guitar solo. \n\nDoes he use supplments?",
"It's just practice. You wouldn't understand.",
"You should see his calluses",
"Damn. I hate how true your truth is.",
"If only!",
"Now you understand.",
"Jack Black has some of the best vocals. Dude can fucking belt it out.",
"And how he changes costumes mid solo without skipping a beat",
"At least he apologized mid song for blowing his mind bc that shit happens to him….",
"Oh that demonic face he makes after he exploded a mans head! I think he enjoyed it???",
"That's like instant reincarnation as house cat or better.",
"Wait until you hear about a band called Dethklock...",
"He does his arm growth exercises right after his cock pushups",
"Doing push ups with your cock helps.",
"Thoughts and prayers..",
"A righteous sacrifice.",
"40 hours a day, every day.",
"It would have been more but Jables didn’t give him enough space at the beach and cramped his style.",
"You should see Danny Carey from Tool, he's got like 8.",
"oh i get it you're trying to be funny bc 8 ppl died at a concert recently.\n\nwhat an absolutely disrespectful post. fuck you.",
"Its a joke ya jerkoff",
"How many can he do?",
"I was expecting deathklock tbh",
"Per arm",
"T’s & P’s",
"How did I forget PFT was in that movie?",
"Not satisfied until I see a video apology in the form of a poorly taken selfie.",
"God I wish I could crush a guitar solo like that…",
"He stops when he gets bored.",
"At least they apologized.",
"8 people getting trampled is a joke to you? Jokes are supposed to be funny. \n\nHow would you feel if your brother died by getting trampled and ppl are fucking joking ab it. Fuck you mother fucker",
"Only needs to do the one.",
"I wasn't at all familiar with this Tenacious D act but based on this tune they seem like The Greatest Band on Earth.",
"Each playing on its own time signature.",
"hey he said he was sorry",
"Relax bruh",
"[BTS of Master Exploder recording](https://youtu.be/7HdVx80uBUI)",
"The lawsuits were thrown out, on the grounds of, \"getting your mind blown by sweet tasty rock does not qualify as demise but is in fact, transcendence.\"",
"It didn’t even take a full fucking day before the smoothbrains on this site started making light of a tragedy, truly impressive.",
"I didn't know what to expect what Jack Black would be like in the recording studio, but as soon as I saw it, I said \"Yup, that's Jack Black in the recording studio.\" and had no further questions.",
"At least he apologized before continuing the song.",
"Amy Adams in the role of a lifetime",
"I heard one of them has the power to kill a yak at 200 yards...*with mind bullets!*",
"If Asura's Wrath taught me anything, it comes from being angry.",
"The voice of an angel.",
"Still one of the best versions of the National Anthem out there: [https://youtu.be/d9l4LMZeNm0](https://youtu.be/d9l4LMZeNm0)\n\nJust sings the song beautfully, doesn't make it about himself, just nails it.",
"The spread eagle guitar always gets me.",
"Has Dethklok sold out? No, says frontman, Nathan Explosion.",
"Hey my best friend died from reading salty comments on the internet. How very dare you",
"He did not mean, to blow your mind",
"They're making light of all the karma whoring posts about other bands. This is literally no different from those posts, only this one is actually good.",
"If Machamp can grow arms because it works out so much why can't Kyle do the same! Duh.",
"Lol what they did on their japan tour: \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9UanTCFKKg",
"Also, several women got pregnant from getting too close to KG while he was playing.",
"He did apologize though.",
"[Sadly some of these musical folk literally do it on purpose](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCawU6BE8P8)",
"Can you do a Metalocalypse one next? I’m too lazy.",
"Ling Ling approves.",
"\"It's a studio. Its says it on the door. It's official STUDIO!\" (Quote from Tribute)",
"Maybe they're Meatloaf.",
"Oddly enough, I went to a Tenacious D concert a few years ago in Las Vegas and somebody got shanked during ~~their first song~~ a song in the early part of their set. The D were as cool as they could be about it, and they shut the show down immediately and were basically like \"uhhhh so apparently the police are on their way because something has happened and we've been told to shut the show down. Really sorry guys, here's Tribute\" and they played Tribute and we were escorted out. I don't think anyone knew in that moment that it was a ~~murder~~ stabbing, but it was pretty wild regardless.\n\nEdit - Tekki777 found an article about the incident and it turns out the person didn't die, so I'm updating my story as we were told someone had died after the concert.\n\nEdit 2 - ryanemaloney pulled a set list from the concert that said Tenacious D played a handful of songs (more than one which I claimed) but less than their full set list by a decent amount. I texted two friends independently and they also remembered multiple songs so look at me now, the lying karma whore that I am. My one buddy also reminded me that we waited over an hour after the opener for the D to come on stage which is probably why it felt so short when they started to play. Bonus story about that trip - I won enough money to pay for my entire trip (flight, hotel, entertainment) playing War all night before we left. The game where if you have the highest card, you win. Zero skill, all stupid nonsense betting, but somehow I killed it. Believe that if you will with my track record above.",
"“we talking about practice?”\n- Allen Iverson",
"One is all you need.",
"I was expecting a Korean boy band.",
"Every time. Every. Single. Fucking. Time I see \"BTS\" I think of the K-Pop band and not \"Behind the Scenes\". They've ruined the acronym for me.",
"Lol you're not fooling anyone. You don't have friends.",
"I love the video and Jack Black, but I hate the comparison. Fuck this bully Travis Scott",
"Cock Pushups?",
"At least they apologized for it immediately though. Credit where it's due.",
"“The surgeon general warning says listening to this song is equivalent to having 29 orgasms”\n\n-\tthe tenacious d hbo series",
"I heard these lunatics tripped on mushrooms in the desert *so* hard they had a baby.",
"All the tiiiiiiiiiiime",
"But that shit happens to him, all the time.",
"Of course, he is tanked to the gills on Vitamin (t)D",
"too soon, perhaps?",
"Was [this](https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/arrest-made-after-stabbing-at-tenacious-d-concert) the incident in question?",
"Well, at least he apologized.",
"That’s telekinesis, u/10per.",
"Holy crap! Yep, that had to be it, it was definitely House of Blues and the year is right. Damn, I didn't realize it had almost been 10 years. Also, I'll edit my post as we were told after the concert somebody died and this article says they were \"injured\" not murdered.\n\nOne thing the article is 100% wrong about though is the concert length. It was absolutely not halfway through the show, they played one song and Tribute and that's all we got.",
"iiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeee!!!!",
"*[laughs in devilish amounts of eyeliner]*",
"Watch the movie, heathen.",
"Are you a moron!? This was a dream.\n\n/s",
"Correct. He easily could have been one of the greatest frontmen in history for a serious metal band, but he decided that scene was oversaturated and he wanted to go in a different direction, comedy music.",
"Well you see, their fans all signed Pain Waivers, so it's OK.",
"Snuff film. What monsters.",
"It's where you fuckin' lay down flat on the ground, and then you let your boner lift you up off the ground.",
"Why ruin a good song with a garbage show?",
"This audience members death was CLEARLY first-degree premeditated murder. They said they already wrote the song, and yet one of the lyrics is \"I did not mean to blow your mind\", but that line only would have made sense if he exploded someone's mind in the way that he did. The prosecution rests its case, your honor.",
"There is a difference you twat.",
"Thanks for this, I didn't even know this existed. JB's voice, as always, is a legend.",
"That's crazy! I wasnt sure if you were bullshiting for attention but I looked it up and it mostly lined up. I really hope the person survived.",
"Come on man, it was irresponsible yes but they didn't mean to, they said sorry.",
"The original 2001 album and HBO tv series will always have a place in my heart.",
"Sorreh!",
"Absolutely. They did admit to cheating just a little bit in this one specifically though which you can hear for yourself by looking up the isolated vocals. I think it was mostly just lengthening one of the longest, highest notes, if I recall correctly.",
"Well what was he expecting honestly? He doesn’t even need a microphone.",
"Black and white filter + lots of forehead rubbing to really pull the pity party.",
"And you got something much better.",
"Bruh.",
"I wouldn't say its garbage, but definitely seems overrated to me.",
"Ppl died in that shit and you fuckers making jokes and farming karma over it, typical.",
"I do not need... (he does not need...)\n\nA microphone... (A microphone...)\n\nMy voice is fucking... (fucking...)\n\n**POWERFUUUUULLLLLL!!**",
"Hhmmmmmmm THAT’S DOABLE",
"Don't worry, in a week reddit will give you a new thing to get mad about and you'll forget all about this just like everyone else, and you can keep on riding the hivemind.",
"Well then they can suck a cock.",
"This is a dream sequence.",
"*Sorry*!",
"This happened and Dave Grohl let it happen, and he didn't even have the decency to be on stage to stop it!",
"Maybe, but look at the behind the scenes footage someone posted just above you. Sounds amazing there.",
"Can't you see he's the man?\n\nLet me hear you applaud.\n\nHe is more than a man he's a shiny golden god.\n\nIf you think it's time to fucking rock, and fucking roll, out of control,\n\nwell then you know you got to rock the block,\n\nand fucking suck my fucking cock,\n\n'cause when you rule, you fucking school all of the fools, out of their jewels,\n\n'cause if you think it's time,\n\nif you think it's time,\n\nif you think it's time to fucking rock.\n\nHe is going to kick your fucking ass,\n\nand you know his name is Kyle Gass,\n\nrocking and fucking rolling,\n\nand fucking rocking,\n\nand fucking rollin...",
"Notice it's *after* he uses the split-legs guitar",
"And a power sliiiiide",
"Yeah absolutely! Jack Black is one of my favorite vocalists, he has an amazing set of pipes. I use him often as an example when studying, which is why I listen to his isolated vocals. I wish I had his voice",
"Yeah same. I'm glad the person lived, it was just surreal because I have been to lots of \"angry\" metal shows and generally expected something like that to happen there compared to Tenacious D. My friends and I were like \"who the hell gets mad at a Tenacious D concert and then stabs someone?\"",
"Tenacious D is the ONE reference I always try to slide up in my videos.\n\nNothing can ever have too much D in it.",
"Some people get it from the streets.\n\nSome people get it from school.\n\nThe D?\n\nThey were just born with it.\n\n*A Capella Solo*",
"Amy Adam’s telling me she loves me",
"I believe she was credited as \"Gorgeous Woman\" 😆. \n\nThat movie and her appearance on The Office around the same time were just before she became a big deal in Hollywood.",
"He's trying to watch his figure, you see.",
"i mean the surgeon general of rock warned that listening to this band is equal to 29 orgasms. that itself seems kind of dangerous",
"Damn it's literally school of rock, that's amazing.",
"Fun Fact : Amy Adams is in the crowd. You can see her at minute 1:30.",
"A Junior bacon chee. A *JUNIOR*. bacon chee.",
"And fuckin reep beep biddladiddla reep beep biddladiddla reep beep diddlabiddla do, beew, beew beto bebebeto bebebeto bebebeto bebebeeww",
"so... he is literally himself on every movie he is in?\n\namazing.",
"i fucking love this band, they are the best band ever",
"Or... Or *better*?",
"You on a diet?",
"You mofo, take this upvote and leave.",
"This was honestly legit. Loved the range there, and I appreciate the share!",
"Take two of the nuggets\n\nand shove them UP YOUR ASS.\n\nCuz I'm just wantin, a four nugget thing.",
"Take two of the nuggets, and shove them up your ass",
"It really is tho",
"We'll lead as two kings . . . . .",
"[ **Jump to 01:30 @** Tenacious D: Master Exploder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A&t=0h1m30s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: SeanIzen, Video Popularity: 98.03%, Video Length: [03:23])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@01:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A&t=0h1m25s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"Nah he's natty for sure bro",
"So, you couldnt remember the greatest song in the world? Maybe you could come up with a fitting tribute? But then, sometimes that just not the right thing to do.",
"Well tbf one song was half the concert in that instance 😅\n\nThat sucks man, glad they were ok though. Did you get a refund?",
"Critically underrated movie.",
"the apology was still more genuine than Travis'",
"People have been using humour to deal with tragedy for thousands of years, and you being a dick about it won’t change that. Also it’s clear the joke is not directed at the victims, but rather the perpetrator. The only person being disrespectful here is you.",
"this isn’t funny",
"> u/oze4 Bro what the fuck are you talking about my brother was just trampled to death.\n\nDoubt it, unless you also focus on your wallstreet bets while dealing with a family death, did you lie about a death in your family as part of an insult?",
"supplemental arms\n\nedit: from the army surplus",
"Yeah, they talk about that stuff all the time over on r/guitar. There's YouTube vids you can watch. It's not a big deal, but it makes the normies go wild.",
"Glad I tagged the user, looks like u/oze4 went on a comment deleting spree after trying to claim his sibling died during this recent incident\n\nHopefully they learned something today",
"How tone deaf",
"I did not mean",
"Just make sure you don't actually say the word \"sorry\" in your apology. The lawyers forbid any admission of guilt",
"do you have a life? why are you making shit up? i don't even have a brotehr you idiot.",
"LOL that explains it. you're one of those profile creepers. GET A LIFE, WHO THE FUCK WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?????",
"Well, Wonderboy and Young Nastyman joined forces - they formed a band the likes of which had never been seen!",
"Long live the D!",
"It's pretty funny.",
"He correctly did it too. Metal, while still great, was a fading scene (rock in general). By creating a niche market a la Weird Al, he was able to create something that people loved. \n\nIt didn't hurt that he was really popular from movies as well.",
">u/AJSwifty fuck all of those people that died, every one of them deserved it\n\nSo glad I actually tagged the user. Looks like AJSwifty is a piece of shit.\n\nSee I can make up shit too",
"I hope you find the help or comfort you need.",
"This is the way.",
"That's like asking how many grains of sand on the beach...",
"you're fucking sick in the head.",
"Tenacious D has the best videos ever",
"There's only one grain of sand on the beach?",
"Two arms isn't two arms. That's a lie. Two arms is not two arms. I'll explain it to you later",
"Holy shit that guys fucking head exploded. And the lead singers apology was still more heartfelt than Travis Scotts!",
"That “Destinyyyyy-ahhh” was magnificent.",
"Solid fucking continuation dude",
"My buddy used to be on production teams for tours of some pretty big bands that I won’t name. Apparently this is a pretty common thing in the industry",
"Thanks for teaching these younglins about the awesomeness before them!",
"And honestly seeing Tribute live was worth it for the concert ticket price anyway. And no, no refunds were offered or honoured as far as I know.",
"V shred did this",
"Good comparison because Weird Al is another guy who people don't realize how very good his pipes are, just because his songs are comedy. Hell, he can even rap well.",
"Something like this\n\nhttps://youtu.be/sEVckJPNMPw",
"One is all you need",
"I fucking love this film. It's brilliant. Not seen it for a while but I regularly listen to the album. Its just a genuinely great rock album, banger after banger",
"What beach are you going to, bud?",
"doctors hate him.\n\nfind out how eating just 4 egg yolks a day can have your extra arms looking like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rDvVOYzVVs)",
"What kind of cock push-ups are you doing where you can do more than one? One is all you need!",
"He said sorry",
"'Twas the D who fucked a dragon, fuck a lie, sing fuckaloo, and if you try to fuck with them then they shall fuck you too!",
"Man. He can sure shred the shit out of that unplugged acoustic guitar.",
"Bong of destiny has many powers",
"No, we probed afterward and they weren't going to. We didn't fight it, so maybe others got some money back but we were there on a trip from Canada and didn't want to waste time trying to get that sorted out.",
"To blow your mind",
"Not enough head rubbing for it to be taken seriously.",
"Me? Not a single one. However many you need is irrelevant, Kyle Gass's limits aren't known is all I'm saying.",
"Absolutely. Weird Al is a really good musician overall. Loved him when I was growing up.",
"And the power slide!",
"Since you mentioned it - how do you listen to the isolated vocals, I mean how do you isolate them?",
"...HBO TV series? Whaaaaaaaaaaat?",
"Watch what you say, otherwise with karate he’ll kick your ass, from here to Tiananmen Square.",
"This is the correct answer. Born with it.",
"I mean that wasn’t a “movie,” that was video of him living his life.",
"Ohhhhh, let you search for tenacious d HBO and be fucked in your earholes and your eyeholes by the wonder that was the D in their infancy. \n\nLittle did we know our audience to greatness so long ago.",
"There are two main ways. Games like Guitar Hero etc. need separated tracks (so that if you mess up the main guitar riff, the drums and vocals and stuff can still continue). Those are often uploaded online, on YouTube too.\n\nAnother way is to use an algorithm like Spleeter. These are less clean, less accurate but can be great for songs where the original stems (separate tracks) are not available.\n\nMusicians also trade stems sometimes, but they are not as easily accessible by the general public.",
"Listen, Kyle Gass didn't blow a baby out of his ass into the waiting arms of Jack Black just to get drug through the mud by you assholes. I won't have it.",
"Tell them you're the only one who really cares about them. Demand the passwords to their phone. Be emotionally unavailable then switch to love-bombing.",
"I shall. I was rewatching the X-Files recently and saw one with a young Jack Black. Was pretty cool.",
"He uses Adderarm",
"It didn't look sincere",
"I'm 12 years old and I learned how to do it perfectly after playing guitar for 6 days",
"If you don't watch the video before hitting the comments it's really fucking confusing.",
"AHAHAHAHAH that's the dumbest take i've heard so far. What a clown.",
"Wait till you hear about the Electric Sun 20.",
"Time to fire up the PS3, thanks for reminding me!",
"Oh man are you in for a treat! I wish I could go back and see it for the first time again.",
"Was she in this?",
"Who was she in this clip?",
"I was just turned onto the Probot song I Am the Warlock featuring Jack Black. That kicks so much ass. Master Exploder is so good, too. I used to hate Jack Black from his character in Bongwater but the D won me over through their HBO show. Their first album is ridiculous and have given it many a spin.",
"And they called themselves TENACIOUS D!",
"What if I exist to turn tea into pee? \n\nWHAT THEN??",
"She's at 1:32",
"That’s right! ME … and KG!",
"The show still happened. That's probably why they still played a song. The music industry pays for everything up front more or less so they avoid giving refunds at all costs. Most of the ticket money is spent before the show even started, with what funds would they refund?",
"“I wish I had his voice”\n\nOk, calm down, Ursula.",
"Good job, you've found the joke!",
"Trolled in the best possible way. Thanks for some light in the darkness kind soul.",
"Was mostly a disappointment for me. The HBO show was much funnier.",
"He's so white and nerdy though.",
"Thanks for the reply. Are you in the third camp then, with access to artists shares?",
"Cock Pushups!",
"My wife and I - who are terribly responsible parents - took our kid to see Tenacious D a couple years back, when he was like… 7 years old? \n\nThe next day me and the kiddo are meeting our friend for lunch and lo and behold we wind up parking *directly behind KG*, who was going to get ice cream. I told him we’d seen them the night before and he offered [to take a picture with us](https://www.instagram.com/p/BrtQAMUAGP-/?utm_medium=copy_link). It was really for the kid, but the kid was a little shy and didn’t come in very close.",
"Less than I'd wish!",
"Gotta get it on in the party zone!",
"Cock push-ups?",
"It would be really cool to hear Jack Black interciewed on the making of this movie. But I mean.. post Kung Fu Panda Jack Black, not an interview from when the movie just came out. \n\nJack Black has always been one of my favorites, along with Jim Carrey.",
"Why does jack black always sound like he's mocking himself when he talks.",
"Lol, I just discovered TwoSet the other day. Kinda weird seeing this",
"Imagine being the cunt who ruins that experience for so many people, by attempting to fucking murder someone.\n\nOf course, the latter part of that sentence is definitely worse.",
"Not a good joke",
"I thought these dudes died from poisoned wine.",
"Not only a death but the girl at the bar was having some sort heart problems or she was possessed. This is starting to get out of control.",
"Your replies are ironic considering you seemed to care so much about respect! Are you a child or just mentally unwell?",
"Brutality just past 2 min mark",
"Never skip extra arm day",
"Now that you’ve gone this route I’m kind of surprised nobody’s posted any Dethklok videos, their fans die in droves!",
"Also slightly interesting. I've seen a couple people mention crowd crush at System of a Down's set at riot fest 2015. Tenacious D was the other headliner at a different stage at the same time.",
"I'm pretty sure I saw this movie in theaters lol",
"for my bunghole",
"Cock pushups",
"A steady regimen of rocket-sauce and plenty of cock pushups",
"haha xD its funny cause 8 people JUST died and their families are probably working on getting the funerals together now!\n\nfuck this post",
"I love the random Amy Adams cameo.",
"Yep check at 1:31 of the clip",
"I’ve heard several of the women in attendance spontaneously became pregnant as a result.",
"yoo, too soon bro",
"You're literally shaking your heading your head right now?",
"Have they *stopped*\n\nOr\n\n*Did* they stop",
"Thanks! I was aware it was a joke and wanted to point it out. 🙂",
"These dudes are out of control, they cannot be stopped or even contained. My wife heard this song and hasn't stopped orgasming since",
"Anything other than \"fueled by Satan\" is the wrong answer.",
"The main difference is people like Jack Black",
"I and everyone else got refunded when the stage for a Radiohead concert collapsed hours before the show killing one of the drum technicians. I'm sure every incident is different but there is insurance as well as the fact that the chance of cancellation can be factored into the cost. Music events are cancelled all the time due to all sorts of reasons and refunds are par for the course.",
"I went into this film with super low expectations. By the end, it was one of my all time favorites.",
"Early on he had some bit parts, like *Enemy of the State*, where he blended in pretty well. \n\nBut these days Jack Black pretty much plays himself.",
"Don’t try it man, it hurts your cock.",
"AND WE LOVED THEM FOR IT.",
"Are you threatening me?",
"He eats burrito supreme.",
"He fucking nailed the dismount",
"Butt baby.",
"I'm starting to see a pattern. \n\nPerhaps they lied about their meet with the devil?",
"i meant in some movies",
"not a game, practice.",
"Metal.",
"\"Someone might have just died, anyway here's ~~wonderwall~~ Tribute.\"",
"Haha I literally learned Wonderwall on guitar just for that meme. I do not know how to play Tribute, so arguably my priorities are completely fucked.",
"Did they play it as you left? Or you stayed for that one and then you had to?",
"Get baked out of your mind and watch this scene. It's great!",
"I remember staying while they played the song and basically it was lights up and head out the door. I believe there was a brief pause in the performance and it appeared like they were trying to negotiate (or they mentioned that they were able to negotiate playing that one song) because the police were going to be on scene and everyone needed to be out of there because of the incident.",
"\"Warning! if you want your asses blown out stay in the room\"",
"The joke is that they think they're the greatest band in the world. The truth is they just might be.",
"At least Jack apologized.",
"Now I don’t know what to believe! https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/tenacious-d/2012/house-of-blues-las-vegas-nv-53dcfbe5.html",
"i mean, he did say sorry",
"Well, once you've heard the greatest and best song in the world (tribute) what else is there to do but go home and sleep off the stabbings?",
"Incels.",
"I love this song too much",
"I still pay homage regularly. \n\nLong Live the D!",
"Fuckin' got me. Got me good. In the best way.",
"Awesome post!",
"Who's on drums?",
"I wonder if anyone filmed this specific show and they could confirm whether my memory is garbage or not. I’ll text another friend and ask him how long the D played",
"Hey man! He said he was sorry AND that he didn’t mean to do that! But his voice is just Fucking POWERFULL!",
"That shit happens to him all the time.",
"You're a very serious and important person",
"Cornholio, is that you?",
"Oh man you’ve cracked the case. I’ll update in my main post but this set list is probably accurate. Two different friends texted me back and said it was definitely more than one song but way shorter than the full set list. Do I go to jail now? What do I tell my wife? What am I going to tell my kids?",
"Welcome to the rabbit hole!",
"If it’s me I’m telling my kids I’m the one who was stabbed and that I placed the suspects under citizens arrest myself. Your memory of this night is already fuzzy as it is, go for broke!",
"Kyle’s follow up “fucking” is one of the most satisfying parts of any song I’ve ever listened to. I’ve never been able to explain it but there’s just something about it that hits the g spot in my ear pussy.",
"Yes I am the Joker",
"Ok sounds good. I also got on stage with Jack and Kyle and they asked me to play guitar with them during Tribute. That’s the official story now.",
"You cant stop the metal.",
"Where the hell do people come up with this stuff?\n\nThe guy can sing pretty damn well, sure, but it's ridiculous to say he could have been one of the greatest front men in history. It's like saying Steve Martin could have been the next Earl Scruggs but he decided to pursue acting instead of a banjo career. Yeah, he's surprisingly good, but there's a ton of phenomenal banjo players out there.",
"Just don’t let them see this and blow your cover https://youtu.be/CP8fcezl-dI",
"Too soon?",
"Who is Tina B? From Bob’s Burgers?",
"The show still happened",
"I absolutely hate Jack Black. \n\n\nBut this was the best new metal song I've heard in about 20 years.",
"That’s awesome, good find. At least they actually played Tribute I was second guessing everything for a minute there",
"Yes, the show you went to didn't happen. The one with the D, did happen. Everyone was there, the openers played, the main act played too. That's enough to satisfy the contract between ticketing agent and ticket purchaser.\n\nHere's my anecdote regarding ticketing nonsense. I pre purchased VIP passes for a local festival. Covid happened so they didn't do the event. They instead \"postponed\" it to the **next year**!! No refunds because the festival is \"still going to happen.\" Then when it did happen, the lineup was different. The whole thing was a shitshow and not what I paid for but technically fulfilled the letter of the contract so we all got screwed.",
"Hunnnnnmnnnngggggggghhhhhhhgghhg",
"bunnnnnghole. I need some TEE PEE. forrr my bunngggggg hole.",
"The best band ever. PERIOD!",
"It’s a Julliard thing. The rage in the cage.",
"Oh my KG really rockin it with all those arms",
"##Huh! Huh! Huh!",
"Totally forgot Paul F. Tompkins was in this.",
"Seeing this, I feel like I suddenly understand the humor behind the toy saxophone bit: https://youtu.be/cLmCJKT5ssw\n\nThey're always just pretending to play instruments while a prerecorded song plays.",
"The song is called master exploder he knew what he was doing.",
"Hey let's take it easy on the finger pointing here",
"I wish I had his eyes.",
"One of my all-time favourite movies! Long live the D!",
"Credit card chargeback my guy : unless you fucj up you always win",
"You do chargeback and they suck it : failure to render services",
"Chargeback : most people don’t know about it but it works",
"That was so good",
"Odds are, if you like the D, you’ve smoked a couple of marijuana’s in your day.",
"The door is four.",
"Yours just isn’t strong enough yet. Keep working and you’ll get there.",
"I was at first confused when the rhythm guitar was still going after Jack stopped playing... but then the video went on and I thought \"Oh, this just needs a healthy suspension of disbelief\".",
"Omg I fucking love this movie. Thank you guitar hero 3 and rock band 2 for introducing me to this amazing band",
"no because i don't know which line that is",
"The one where giovanni ribisi has electricity powers!",
"His part in The Jackal stuck with me since childhood. And he had an awesome episode of X-Files around him.",
"This happened to me too. I can't look at BBC anymore without thinking of British television.",
"u/savevideo",
"heh heh he",
"That's just how good he is. It's not for mortals to understand, only enjoy the result.",
"Yep",
"God I love this soundtrack , really didnt age after a decade",
"What is this title even?",
"No wonder it tastes shit",
"Yeah this is really disrespectful, as much as I love Tenacious D and this song.",
"Important that he actually said the word “sorry”",
"Someone shit themselves at that show too",
"Yeah, it'd be kind of surreal if he had a posh British accent and mannerisms",
"Had to watch the entire clip. 🤣",
"uh huh huh",
"*I DID NOT MEANNNN*",
"The sasquatch one was fucking hilarious",
"Duncan hills, now scream for the cream.",
"that's the one. only recently noticed similarities with them and Pauly Shore",
"Then I want you to take a Coca Cola and just do half coke, half diet coke. Cause I’m trying to lose some weight.",
"It’s good to have healthy snack during your set",
"Yes, British television…that’s what all of us were going to say. British television, and nothing else…",
"This guy recklessly impregnates hundreds of women in the audience at every show through his music.",
"lol thank you for this comment. If Jack Black could have been an ungodly front man, I'm sure he would have done that. He picked the right route for his mix of charisma and music skills.",
"Not everyone has a credit card, you knob.",
"Because literally everyone has a credit card. Debit doesn't work that way. Thanks for th hot tip though. I definitely didn't know about the biggest reason to use a credit card, lol.",
"There's a fantastic bit from whatever that is where Dio or one of the other greats in that movie is singing and they're just blown away. One recording.",
"This video is amazing, but damn if that isn't a pretty good song.",
"He at least acknowledges that he blew the guys head off and apologizes for it.",
"It's just another Beavis quote",
"It's weird that at first it was the other way around, but at some point the k-pop band won out and that's what I think.",
"They're called documentaries.",
"I'm always the opposite. I still don't know anything about the kpop band but it's everywhere so I'm expecting some cool behind the scenes stuff and turns out people are talking about the band again.",
"I live for these mash ups.",
"But not as buhdass as electric dynamite.",
"If he'd just stood over there like Kage asked him to earlier...",
"Is this the same army for the government that totally sucks, you motherfucker?",
"He did a teen girl pretty well in jumanji imo!",
"Burnie is his all-time performance"
] | 402 |
videos
|
Not only have these maniacs not stop their show when they caused the death of one of their fans (1m50s), they actually kept on playing even louder. Severe health and property damage as a result.
|
https://youtu.be/FlTeNzSGFFw
|
/r/videos/comments/qpf947/travis_doing_a_really_cool_cover_of_soulja_boy_i/
|
[
"Nice Try Travis...you’re former manager says otherwise.\n\n\nhttps://youtu.be/njjJWE99hGs",
"Did... did you watch the video?...",
"I don't think so...?",
"Yea zigga",
"Who do you think is playing in the video I posted...? Lol",
"I think you are confused man. Did you watch the video I posted? Who do you think is playing in the video...",
"You right. I’m an idiot. Didn’t watch the video cause I thought it was the same Travis I’ve seen hundreds videos the last few days.",
"Shut up baby I know it",
"I don't actually think you do... my proof is that video you linked is someone completely different lol. Why don't you watch the video before posting lol",
"All good lol",
"The joke went over your head like yo mamas ankles",
"Thanks for your patience in getting that point across. Love this cover but wasn’t trying to give TS and more clicks. \nHave a good one man!",
"I don't think you are making a relevant joke here lol. Again I think you are confused because you didn't bother watching the video. You are linking a video to Travis Scott.... the video I have here is of Travis Barker the drummer for blink 182 and someone completely different... did you hit your head somewhat hard or something lmao",
"No worries, the title was worded in a way to capitalize on that and you just commented in a way that was intended. Best!",
"Oh yea I hit my head over and over and over into those pink walls. Box so good it made me retarded.",
"mmmmk!",
"Thanks Mr. Mackey"
] | 17 |
videos
|
Travis doing a really cool cover of Soulja boy. I don't think he's that bad.
|
https://youtu.be/3snRhKSwGuA
|
/r/videos/comments/qpfcwz/brent_smith_of_shinedown_stops_performance_to/
|
[
"They were performing in 2008 at an outdoor festival we used to have when some crowd surfing was dropped. They stopped the show to allow help to get to the person then too.",
"Please stop these. Everyone else is a good person aside from Travis Scott.",
"Seriously no one want to see any more of these. Stop.",
"No body cares. \n\nFuck off",
"You guys upvoted all those other posts, but you downvoted mine lol",
"I’ve downvoted all of them because it’s karma whoring bullshit.",
"Not mine. Mine is just to show what Travis Scott should’ve done.",
"What an amazing, life-saving effort by Shinedown to stop playing their music . . . and also good on them for helping that person.",
"What’s wrong with Shinedown? They rule!"
] | 11 |
videos
|
Brent Smith of Shinedown Stops Performance to Help a Fan.
|
https://youtu.be/7tBBkh1-y9A
|
/r/videos/comments/qpflw2/architects_stops_show_to_call_out_attempted/
|
[
"No one cares move on. Holy fuck you people are petty",
"8 people died dude. \n\nI've been to many different concerts, shows and festivals and nothing like this has ever happened at any of them.",
"Yes and you don’t need to post every one to make you point. Fuck off you’re karma whoring not making a statement.",
"These are different people posting different videos. I thought I'd post one from a band I like.",
"And you not helping holy shit. Everyone is sick of these. Yes people died. Yes it’s sad. No you and everyone else don’t not need to post 10000 videos of other people being better. You are not helping. You are jumping in the bandwagon for karma. Fuck you.",
"Yeah. I help by actually getting out of the way when emergency medical staff need to get to someone at a concert. So fuck you too.",
"Dude just stop. Holy shit. You just sound dumb at this point.",
"Nah stay mad",
"?",
"In this comment section, two even tempered people have a civil discourse regarding reddit content."
] | 11 |
videos
|
Architects stops show to call out attempted sexual battery against a fan
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxXjsQbCZR8
|
/r/videos/comments/qpg5j0/kung_pow_enter_the_fist_cow_fight/
|
[
"“What do you get, when you cross an owl and a bungee cord….. my ASS! Nyah HAA NYAAH HAA!!”",
"A movie that I quote nearly every single day since I saw it in theaters almost 20 years ago.",
"Your curly cues make me so hot I can’t even think straight",
"Your mouth tricks won’t fool ME ventriloquists",
"For a time as a kid this movie was the funniest thing I had seen in my life.\n\nGood times!",
"Birdy....bird-y....tiger!...mmmhhhmmm",
"\"Swinging the chain, swinging the chain\", \"My nipples look like Milk Duds\".",
"THATS A LOTTA NUTS",
"I don't know how they did it but this movie is half comedy gold half cringe shit like this"
] | 9 |
videos
|
Kung Pow: Enter the Fist - Cow Fight
|
https://youtu.be/BmQWjL6QUOY
|
/r/videos/comments/qpgjrc/i_found_this_video_which_helps_me_sleep_but_im/
|
[
"Same thing basically, but with star track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRk-DQUUlz8\n\nI like the heartbeat effect of the warp core. Plus the idea of sailing through space helps me fall asleep.",
"This is my favourite (I don’t have insomnia): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywBxqqpyfOc",
"I just listen to an ad-free podcast with the volume barely high enough to hear it. It keeps me focused on something besides my thoughts and helps me fall asleep.",
"My go to is this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-lPzGsUfM0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-lPzGsUfM0) but sometimes I use videos from here [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxGy9Y8ZKx8w7pc82k1jiug](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxGy9Y8ZKx8w7pc82k1jiug) for if I need something to get my brain to focus on a bit more (but only the more relaxing games, I dont listen to him playing league or anything).\n\nEdit\\*\n\nSome that I use but that I use less often are these:\n\nMass Effect: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXVXYl3\\_8c&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXVXYl3_8c&t)\n\nElite Dangerous: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAtQ600uCE&t=174s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAtQ600uCE&t=174s)\n\nSkyrim: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRe3xFeyhVY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRe3xFeyhVY) and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RHSLbg9hA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RHSLbg9hA) \n\nDestiny: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apWyXoEHG3U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apWyXoEHG3U)\n\nODST: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJjzEEphfM&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJjzEEphfM&t)\n\nStar Trek: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRk-DQUUlz8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRk-DQUUlz8)\n\nStar Ship (basically Star Trek): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvznAiKblU&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvznAiKblU&t)",
"So ya I used to too, but now I have a pavlov reaction where I fall asleep during movies.",
"Usually some kind of science or math documentary or lecture. It has to be just interesting enough, but not too interesting. [This video from 3Blue1Brown](https://youtu.be/4PDoT7jtxmw) is one of my favorites.",
"I just use a fan to sleep, but sometimes use this for work:\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6MemVxEquE",
"Chilled astronomy videos:\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVPsNDonA84&list=PLkoaIad9k4NIlsG6g-almaZH6MzR_T5eV",
"https://onlineclock.net/noisegenerator/\n\nMix and match your own choice of soothing sounds"
] | 9 |
videos
|
I found this video which helps me sleep, But I'm wondering what the other insomniacs use to sleep?
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvGKxDlXgvQ
|
/r/videos/comments/qph0g5/old_man_parks_his_58inch_wide_car_into_his_60inch/
|
[
"Sigma male mindset",
"It's from a legendary Flemish human interest program called \"man bijt hond\" (man bites dog)",
"he sounded danish",
"Those subtitles are a dirty lie. He is is expressing everything in metric.",
"Yeah, it's really weird to convert the unit in the translation like that.\n\nEnglish speakers know what centimeters are, even if we don't use them as much.",
"Except he left the bike out front",
"That goes in the second even smaller garage",
"Ok, how'd he then exit the vehicle that he parked in that garage?",
"They know what centimeters are but can't imagine it, the same way I can't imagine what a gallon or a mile is when I hear it. I think it's a good thing they translated the units of measurement.",
"Did you watch the video? He lines the car up with the door into the garage, opens the house door as well as the car door, rolls the car back a bit to open the door fully, climbs out, then pushes the car forward to close the door.",
"Obviously this isn't true for everyone, most people in countries that don't use metric know at least approximately how large a centimeter is.\n\nHonestly all you need to know to understand this video is that it's a really small unit, even if you don't know offhand EXACTLY how big it is.\n\nThere was really no reason to convert the unit.",
"This is why we have building codes in America. So you don’t have to do this.",
"Then you translate correctly and put inches in brackets",
"The garage is 4 inches wide and you have to remove the handle bars and seat for it to fit",
"why doesn't old mate just park it on the street?",
"> even if you don't know offhand \n\nFrom what I remember 3 hands are one foot",
"He paid for the garage, he's damn well going to use it.\n\nIn all seriousness I street park and someone keyed my car within the first week I brought it home",
">They know what centimeters are but can't imagine it\n\n>>the same way I can't imagine what a gallon or a mile is when I hear it.\n\nthat makes one of you. Most Americans can do both - unlike canadians/europeans it seems.",
"*Something something \"lube service\"...*",
"I mean this house likely just predates modern building standards. There are absolutely building all over America that are grandfathered under old building standards and don’t mean modern codes.",
"Also, I'm pretty sure that isn't a real language and the old fella is just making up sounds with his mouth.",
"Man bijt hond is a wonderful show we also have in the Netherlands. Produced a lot of tv gold for us, both wholesome and hilarious tv.",
"But but USA! USA! USA! everything has to be handfed for them.",
"You can see the scratches on the house door from the car door.",
"Don't explain it to him, he can watch the video like everyone else or be left forever wondering.",
"As a (second language) Dutch speaker, that was incredibly difficult to follow.",
"I did the math 2 car garage is a 7 car garage to this man.",
"what's your first language if i may ask? :)",
"This feels like an odd porn title",
"Really loved this clip. Love how he's just so happy to do it all, not a shred of frustration in his tone/attitude. He's just happy to have the garage.",
"Boringly it's just English",
"Still, it's cool to hear how you picked up some words, he's speaking a dialect called west-flemish. But it's a dialect infamous for being one of the least understandable dialects by other flemish people when spoken with a heavy accent like the guy in the video.",
"It's actually kind of comparable to the west-country accents of England, at least in terms of how completely incomprehensible it is. He even kind of dresses like he's from Somerset!",
"right... regardless of the rest of what he is saying he clearly says centimetres",
"If you're quick, you could take some roofies.",
"I am a native speaker of Dutch and damn, it was hard to follow too.",
"I got a secondary kick imaging that some producer was like “oh wow that garage is awfully small. I wonder if that would be an interesting story” and then later thinking “holy sh!t that was an interesting story”",
"man sounds EXACTLY like my grandad and he is not even speaking the same language. its pretty wild.",
"Please don't misinform the internet about our beautiful dialectical diversity. This is 'Likerts' (Liedekerks) from Liedekerke, East-Flanders. It's quite specific but NOT West-Flemish . I grew up 12 km from there where people speak a very different weird dialect but it's familiar enough that I have no trouble understanding him. Actually he is doing his best to speak clearly to the good people from the tv network but the accent still comes through.",
"Why did he put chairs there in the first place.",
"You replied seriously to the most obvious sarcastic comment I have ever seen.",
"Somebody buy him a switchblade door hinge car mod so he can save himself 35 seconds opening multiple doors to get in the house.",
"Fair enough. \n\nI am dumb.",
"Same. Also been sideswiped 3 times. Do not recommend street parking a car you care about.",
"Sorry that I was incorrect sounded west-flemish to me. 😅",
"This is hilarious. I love learning stuff like this, thank you for the context!",
"More evidence in favor of the undying supremacy of the manual transmission.",
"that's kinda true for every language. It's all just made up.",
"> East-Flanders. It's quite specific but NOT West-Flemish . I grew up 12 km from there where people speak a very different weird dia\n\nhe doesn't really have the space for that. he would need 5 more centimeters. What he really needs is a second smaller door that opens beside the bigger door to the garage. or be younger and just climb through the Window.",
"He sounded like a Yorkshireman doing an impression of a Cornishman.",
"Probably not a ton of room in his house either.",
"Man, if only this video had some images of the size of the garage and car. Preferably together. So you could get a sense of scale to how big those measurements are.\n\nWhy do you have to \"imagine\" anything?",
"And you still build houses out of wood.",
"Scandinavians do, too.",
"I do recommend street parking if you don't have a drive or a garage.",
"Swedish Chef IRL",
"You can put an auto into neutral. I saw nothing in that video that requires a manual.\n\n>More evidence in favor of the undying supremacy of the manual transmission.",
"The humble Fiat Panda. I lost my virginity in a Fiat Panda.",
"I've definitely seen this clip before, but from British TV and I can't remember what. All I remember is how he opens his car door into his house and then pushes the car back.",
"He has foam on the walls to minimize damage when he hits them. He's not worried about keying.",
"God damn! Every time I hear Flemish I just stand back in disbelief. What a weird, beautiful and comical Language.",
"Dude must not gonna come out for months. I mean if I had to do that cause I left something in the car or something emergency, I'm in trouble for space.",
"So moral is that if you don’t have a drive or a garage don’t invest in a nice car.",
"Well... he's got a eleven inch garage for his ten inch bicycle",
"Uh what? Centimeters have been a part of a ruler’s measurement since I was in elementary school. Every school kid knows approx. how big a centimeter is in America.",
"Let’s see this man park it after not visiting the pub.",
"English speakers don't use centimeters? What?",
"The word for inch in Flemish is centimetri",
"Never studied feng shui",
"English speakers don't use centimeters? What?",
"Fuck that. I wish I still had a garage. Even if I had to fit it like this. Less chance of someone fucking my car up, keying it, stealing it and getting up in a cold morning to scrap the frost off my windshield fucking sucks.",
"his garage door is still open though",
"Humans are 200,000 years old and we’re doing this shit lmao : old peole love this inefficient ritual stuff",
"Bork Bork Bork!",
"His accent sounds exactly like a Yorkshireman.",
"Did you not even watch t’il the end where they explain he lives inside his car??",
"The amount of effort a realtor will go through to claim that the house has an \"attached garage\"",
"Small house, you have to do these tricks.",
"No it isn't? Centimetre in Dutch is centimeter. Centimetri is Italian.",
"Are you unaware of the rest of the English speaking countries in the world...? USA is the only English speaking country who doesn't use metric...",
"I like to imagine he drives infrequently given the bikes position behind the car and the shear amount of frustrating effort involved in him having to park.",
"Because he has a garage",
"He absolutely hated all the attention it got him though, wanted to be left alone but constantly got contacted by media outlets. Died not long after.",
"God damnit.",
"You mean a \"car hole\". \n\nDefinitely a car hole.",
"Verstond er echt geen ene kut van",
"I don't know, in tv shows the American units are often converted to metric in the subtitles I've seen on TV. So not that strange that they would convert them as well",
"Um... I'm not the one who translated the unit just because I was translating into English.\n\nI didn't want to say \"American\" because I know England uses imperial in certain circumstances and I wasn't 100% sure if no other country was similar.",
"I said flemish not dutch you pleurislijer",
"I'm literally Flemish.",
"look up Esperanto. it's just over 100 years old and was \"made up\" but is spoken by millions\n\nedit \nok, more like thousands, but still lots of people.",
"LOL, so use your other senses. Listen in particular to the engine revs when it's being pulled into the garage. It would've launched into the back wall if it were an automatic.",
"Engine revs are controlled by the accelerator, also present in a vehicle with an automatic transmission. In a manual, you'd modulate very low speeds by slipping the clutch in first, hence the engine revs going up that you heard. In an auto, you'd just creep and modulate your speed with the brake.\n\nI'm starting to think you don't know how to drive either an auto or a manual.\n\nAnd, to stop you with this silly game, I also didn't hear, feel, smell, or taste anything in that video that requires a manual.\n\n>LOL, so use your other senses. Listen in particular to the engine revs when it's being pulled into the garage. It would've launched into the back wall if it were an automatic.",
"***That's a Fiat Panda***. It's got to be a first generation Panda, because the all of the subsequent generations of Fiat Pandas were wider than 60\".\n\nThe first generation Fiat Panda was never sold with an automatic transmission.",
"The **giant panda's** distinct black-and-white markings have two functions: camouflage and communication. Most of the panda - its face, neck, belly, rump - is white to help it hide in snowy habitats. The arms and legs are black, helping it to hide in shade."
] | 98 |
videos
|
Old man parks his 58inch wide car into his 60inch wide garage.
|
https://youtu.be/Wk4Eq8IcQMk?submit=t
|
/r/videos/comments/qphi23/col_sanders_on_whats_my_line/
|
[
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Zeqy5bt4M",
"How these people missed it being meat way back during the first questioner...",
"Because they spoke about it not being a grain, not the fact that it was a meat."
] | 4 |
videos
|
Col. Sanders on "What's My Line?"
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOX9SjJS8ns
|
/r/videos/comments/qphox6/geddy_lee_of_rush_telling_crowd_to_back_up_or_the/
|
[
"What about the voice of Geddy Lee? How did it get so high? I wonder if he speaks like an ordinary guy?",
"His voice is normally 5 octaves higher than everyone else on the planet, but every day he dines on honey dew and drinks the milk of paradise to sound like a normal guy.",
"Those were 3 lines from \"Stereo\", by Pavement, a song that made us go berserk back in the 90s. The next line is another guy singing: \"I know him and he does\". It was one of those rare musical moments that became a climax just by itself. It didn't matter how fucked up everything was around us, Pavement lifted us up."
] | 3 |
videos
|
Geddy Lee of Rush telling crowd to back up or the show will be over.
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyVqV7kr9TI
|
/r/videos/comments/qphxzu/this_is_4_player_chess/
|
[
"After 800 years, the devs of Chess just released their first multiplayer update!",
"that is insanely impressive and stressful",
"Red's king was taken by the white rook.",
"This is not \"regular\" 4-player chess, this is a variant called 4-player KungFu chess.\n\nKungFu chess is played without turns but with a cool-down period for each piece.\n\nFull video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2s4LkKUpx0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2s4LkKUpx0)\n\n[https://www.kfchess.com/about](https://www.kfchess.com/about)\n\n/r/kfchess",
"Eric always the chillest videos to watch :D",
"You've never played 2-player chess before?",
"ahh I was wondering wtf was going on... thanks",
"Never heard of it! I've been playing single player all this time!",
"So I didn’t watch a sped up version?",
"[Chess? More like...shit.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RHLtx9r2LA)",
"\"God, I hate women.\""
] | 11 |
videos
|
This is 4 player chess
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzOv14fA-BI&ab_channel=FreeleeandDurianrider
|
/r/videos/comments/qpidpw/this_one_joke_from_stewart_lee_from_2014_sums_up/
|
[
"Stewart Lee is an absolute master of controlling silence and timing. The pause after \"but I think\" is a classic example of his style. He's already given the audience the joke at that point, and he respects them enough to let them enjoy that, then adds a little kicker to finish the sentence and pick up the stragglers.\n\nHe was the last live thing I saw before the pandemic and it was one of the best live gigs I've ever seen.\n\nYou're right, between this and the Twitter \"he looked fat and depressed\" bit, he actually manages to make me feel kinda ashamed to use social media, lol.",
"i actually laughed out loud. he needs to remake this but with \"But what if the spike protein gets in the brain?\"",
"I don't know anything about virology, biology, anatomy, zoology, hippology, or pharmacology. But, I think....what if... a horse dewormer cured covid?",
"Agree with you there this guy is a genius I have everything he ever released, and yes I did buy them and not \"download from torrent sites therefore robbing him from the ability to send his kids to private schools\" lol",
"I'm lucky enough to have been to one of this guy's live shows. A true master.",
"I'm just looking now and he has a UK tour starting in January. Considering the title of the show, \"Snowflake\", I'm guessing he has had a lot of substance to draw material from over the last couple of years.",
"Haha yes no doubt. I'll have a look for that, he's normally does a couple down the South West",
"Absolutely. The joke was told with \"I don't know anything about...\", you knew exactly where he was going from that point, but the drawn out tease and repetition makes the anticipation so worthwhile once the 'punchline' is finally dropped.",
"For me, covid did nothing to change my life, but completely and utterly destroy my plans to see Stewart Lee live. It was all ready to go. I had gotten the visa, got the plane tickets, booked accommodation, bought a bus ticket from London to Plymouth, bought the show ticket with a great seat right in the middle. I couldn't believe my luck.\n\nAnd then, one by one, covid screwed everything up.\n\nIt's been almost three years (or is it full three years now?) and i still can't get over it.\n\nBy the time i get another chance to see him, he will have really let himself go.",
"I've been fascinated with him for a long time, and I'm not even interested in stand-up. It's like watching a master craftsman working a job he hates but feels some obligation to keep doing it. Highly, highly recommend his book \"How I Escaped My Certain Fate\" where he delves into how he writes his shows. I'd find it hard to believe there's another professional comedian working today that puts more thought into their performances.",
"Boy. You're the other side of the coin of the argument as well.",
"[You might enjoy this video about him. ](https://youtu.be/0w-K0NWtysA)",
"**[Ivermectin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin)** \n \n >Ivermectin is a medication used to treat parasite infestations. In humans, these include head lice, scabies, river blindness (onchocerciasis), strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis, and lymphatic filariasis. In veterinary medicine, the medication is used to prevent and treat heartworm and acariasis, among other indications. Ivermectin works through many mechanisms of action that result in the death of the targeted parasites; it can be taken by mouth or applied to the skin for external infestations.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"So it kills worms and ticks, and also that specific virus probably I decided.",
"I had never heard of him before this. Thank you OP for introducing me. This man is brilliant: [Stewart Lee Anti Islamic Stand Up](https://youtu.be/wOb2KQHr7V0)\n\nEdit: [Osama Bin Laden](https://youtu.be/Uj2LcKdRU0o)",
"I always wondered what it was like to see someone who knew they were wrong about something stick to their guns.\n\nThanks.",
"God I love Steward Lee. Man is an underrated genius",
"Covid isn't a parasite, it's a virus",
"Are you a sardine?",
"If you like standup comedy, his book is an extremely academic breakdown of three of his specials",
"Easily my favourite stand-up absolutely love Stewart Lee.",
"I think their issue is calling it horse dewormer when it's actually human medicine",
"I actually havent seen this one. Thanks.\n\nAnd while we're at it. My favourite bit of his: the fucking Huguenots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cgeXd5kRDg\n\nE: Here's a Vimeo link if that one is blocked. https://vimeo.com/437542256\n\nIt's the greatest comedy bit about immigrants and its not even close. \"And before then, 400 million years ago when the first fish crawled up onto the land. OUR land! Get back in the sea you finned CUNT\"",
"I love the fact that he knows the joke landed and has to chew back a smile to maintain character briefly.",
"Carpet Remnant World might be my favourite of his, you should watch the whole thing.",
"[I love that bit but this one is my favourite from comedy vehicle ](https://youtu.be/CoNb_bswHa0)",
"And in reality, the absolutely beautiful nuanced detail is that the medicine that these very intelligent people were taking (and causing shortages of) was actually the livestock-grade variant. Which is, well, not approved for human use. \n\nSo, no, it's pretty accurate to call what was being taken at the start of this 'revelation' horse de-wormer, because it was literally the paste used for horses and other livestock. Because there was no avenue at the time to get human-dosed Ivermectin scripts for Covid.",
"Yeah but I will say some people actually did take the one for livestock and they deserve to be mocked for it.",
"Humans gonna human, just in different flavors.",
"https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpidpw/_/hju4qtv\n\nOh yeah i agree with you here, I was just pointing out that their argument wasn't about it actually curing covid",
"\"My fans are smart! They know what torrents are! Michael McIntyre's fans are too stupid to pirate his DVDs!\"",
"He's definitely doing shows in Plymouth - I'll have had some for a couple of years by the time the gig actually happens \n\nI've seen him a fair few times in Cornwall, he ends up playing everywhere. Well worth going along, he's the best comedian I've ever seen perform live.",
"I'm gutted for you - in fact I have tickets to the same show - but I have to say, I've never heard of anyone going from London to Plymouth for a show! Usually it's very much the other way around",
"I expect he'll hit the Phoenix in Exeter again. Beat place for me to catch him.",
"Give it to me straight",
"lol",
"> \"Horse dewormer\" indeed.\n\nIndeed, because by and large the people self-medicating with this are treating themselves with a formulation appropriate for horse deworming, not a dose made to treat human parasitic infections.",
"> I think their issue is calling it horse dewormer when it's actually human medicine\n\nExcept that by and large the people self-medicating with this are treating themselves with a formulation appropriate for horse deworming, not a dose made to treat human parasitic infections.",
"He makes a good point.\n\n...\n\nBut what IF a dinosaur had got into the lake, though?",
"shit, I've never heard of this man but he seems like a master of pacing!",
"https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpidpw/_/hju4qtv\n\nYeah you're right about that",
"Well yeah, but you see, all those scientists have an agenda, man. They all work for the man, man. They're covering shit up! Now the real question is, why are they covering it up? Why are they hiding Nessi!? Do it for Nessi!!\n\n/s (just in case.)",
"I had tickets to see Snowflake in March 2020. Currently due for May 2022. Will be interesting to see what material he does.\n\nI also booked tickets in July to see his other half (Bridget Christie) this month, but that's now been postponed to May 2023!",
"just replying to this to make it easier to find when I get home. nothing to see here.",
"My absolute favourite of his is [office world man](https://youtu.be/lVQuxAAKCYw)",
"Stewart Lee will always hold a special place in my heart as he has crafted my favourite joke in existence: [Office World Man](https://youtu.be/lVQuxAAKCYw)",
"It states on his website, regarding Snowflake, that it was largely rewritten because of Covid and Brexit.\n\n\"The first half, Snowflake, will be heavily rewritten in the light of the two years the show has been laid off, looking at how the Covid-Brexit era has impacted on the culture war declared on lovely woke snowflakes by horrible people.\"",
"shout out to the guy in the audience that chuckled in between every word as he was listing them off",
"It's been slightly less than two years.",
"Let himself go?",
"For sure one of britains best ever stand up comedians.",
"The difference is that people think they're experts on it because they've read a lot of writing by other non-experts on the topic who are all collectively convincing each other they know things.",
"Ah, Stewart Lee. If only him and Rob Newman would run the world, we'd finally have paradise on earth.",
"Why can't we just enjoy chatting shit without it having to be factual? I like a bit of what if..",
"Imo easily one of the best ever stand ups.",
"Genius",
"Their issue is that they're fuckface.\n\nWhich is why they're citing Ivermectin's success as a deworming drug as though it has any bearing or relevance to it's efficacy fighting something that is NOT a parasite or nematode worm.\n\nBecause to be sure:\n\n> Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:\n> \n>- No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies; \n>- No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and; \n>- A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.\n\n> We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.",
"> Michael McIntyre's fans\n\n[\"What else don't they know?\"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5xTKR_8Htw)",
"You're in for a treat, dude is flawless!",
"Easily 41st best stand up ever",
"I wish us Americans appreciated irony enough for him to do a US tour -- I've been a huge fan of his for so long and would love to see him live one day",
"I'm sure as many Americans as us British would appreciate it. Breaking America seem to be a tough thing to do though",
"Who's that Eskimo twat?",
"Nah they said they don't believe it does anything for covid so they are just making the it's not horse dewormer argument.",
"A running joke he makes about him self... https://youtu.be/vVffIgFsJDg",
"Fair -- the hard part, outside of the cultural or humor taste differences, is just the fact that America is so huge geographically as well. If a small amount of y'all like a niche performer I imagine die-hard fans could travel anywhere in the country to see them quite easily, while a few thousand spread-out American fans can't as easily coalesce in the major cities so you really do need to have a higher level of recognition to justify a tour here as an international act, unfortunately",
"Yeah, didn't consider that. I travelled to the other end of the other side of the country to see Fleetwood Mac, a journey of all of 4 hours here",
"Genocidal Serbian warlord General Ratko Mladic has let himself go.",
"Only Stewart Lee can stand at the back of the stage, pretending to talk on the phone about how he should have stopped at the big laugh he just got but then carried on and now the end of the show is going to be flat and weird, and make it work.",
"There is a Save feature",
"Morrissey has let himself go",
"kd lang's let himself go...",
"I think it's a reference to a Stewart Lee joke, can't find it",
"I was lucky enough to see Stewart back in 2017 and I highly recommend you see him if you get the chance. He's so funny and so dry it's refreshing. He also stuck around at the end of the show to sign merch people bought. I was expecting him to be like his on-stage persona but he was really nice and seemed genuinely happy when I told him how much I enjoyed the show.",
"Sadly I came across a family member today who outed himself as a flat earth believer and asked me to do my own research. When i asked the simple question if he was on a plane and saw the curvature his reply was that it's made that way because of the windows in a plane are curved..... This is what social media, funnel content and isolating people in online community's is doing these days...Back to the subject, this explains some in under a minute.",
"I jokingly made a post critical of him on b3ta back in the day just to piss off his sycophantic fans and he put it on his website.\n\nhttps://www.stewartlee.co.uk/online-critiques/ (search the page for \"dogshit\")\n\nI genuinely find him funny but his superfans back then were a bit patronising in a \"you have to have high IQ to get his jokes\" kinda way. I just wanted to annoy them lol.\n\nWhat's weird is when someone pointed it out, I looked and thought \"I wouldn't have said that, there must be some mistake!\". But nope, I looked it up and sure enough I'd said it and then I remembered why.\n\nhttps://b3ta.com/links/633287",
"Well, if you prefer a milder comedian please ask for one",
"Yeah, I don't doubt there was a certain amount of elitism. I've seen more recent work where he actively references it. I think in a lot of cases the fans take themselves waaay more seriously than the comedian",
"Do Americans know about Stewart Lee?\n\nHe's basically to comedian's comedians what comedian's comedians are to comedians.",
"I love his standup, but he’s a really terrible writer. I wish he was better, but it’s almost like he’s doing it badly on purpose.",
"Hating the thing cos you don't like the thing's fans costs the fans nothing but costs you the thing.",
"He was a guest on the latest Bugle. Worth a listen: https://play.acast.com/s/6d935134-7336-487b-9bd5-e49014278b46/618657973cbea30019975126",
"I seriously can’t understand British accent lol.\n\nThe entire first part was gibberish to me, then he lists the disciplines, which I understand, and the punchline I couldn’t get again. Was the punchline “what if dinosaurs got in the lake”?",
"I think it's showing how someone who knows nothing about a particular discipline will come up with a stupid premise. It's basically saying that the dinosaurs might have survived if they would have jumped in the water.",
"Like a pear cider.",
"If you can't understand an English person speaking the English language, that just means you don't understand English",
"Oh ok, so I suppose you’re in a state of psychosis, considering you think you’re talking to someone in English who doesn’t speak English. Maybe take it easy with the LSD.",
"The punchline is \"...but I think\"\n\nThe joke is that *despite* this person not being an expert in any of the disciplines mentioned (disciplines that might allow someone to speak with authority on the subject of whether there is a Loch Ness monster) he offers up his opinion anyway.\n\nThe \"what if dinosaurs got in the lake?\" line at the end is a knowingly stupid statement, but is the kind of statement that a person could make if they were *also* the kind of person who would offer an opinion on something they know nothing about. It's also just a funny line because it's naive and absurdist. Even the language is simple and childlike.\n\nCan't help you with the accent issues though, he's perfectly easy to understand assuming you're a native English speaker.",
"And yet it's suspiciously sold out at my local barn supply store.",
"I've been to see him live 3 times in Leicester Square, and after every gig he goes and sits in the lobby, but I've never had the courage to talk to him.",
"holy crap that is perfect timing/delivery",
"He basically says.. \"Lots of people say the Loch Ness monster doesn't exist..... Now I don't know anything about... *long list of disciplines related to subject*... But I think....... What if a dinosaur got into the lake?\"",
"been here 8 year and didn't know that... how does one do this? I hope it's not obvious and I'm just oblivious. LOL",
"*comment score under threshold (16 comments)* \n\nyou love to see it",
"[Obligatory Stewart Lee on Osama Bin Laden.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj2LcKdRU0o)",
"That's made from 100% pears.",
"Made from 100% pears.",
"That whole episode is basically 2 jokes, repeated to breaking point and brought back again. It’s absolutely genius.\n\n>\tThese days, you can be locked up and put in jail if you say you’re English",
"Which book, and would you recommend it?",
"Mr Dogshit! hello mate. Zachery says hi!\n\nB3ta is coming back again. Maybe Bemused will too.\n\nyou cunt. ;)\n\n​\n\nFray Bentos meetup London Bridge this Summer ? Colin will be attending.",
"These days?",
"Only because they don’t understand intellectual jokes.",
"[He does seem like a nice guy off stage](https://youtu.be/ii9lLJ0CfRA)",
"Yeah, these days.",
"You can get locked up for saying you're english?",
"It took me more almost five hours to get out of the state of Arizona, from Phoenix. I was not traveling the speed limit either.",
"Yeah, these days, if you say you’re English they’ll lock you up!",
"😂 yeah, wow, completely different world for you. I've travelled places like India and China, but rbh having to sit on a train for 30 hours is very different as a tourist",
"I'd never heard of him before now. Boy, am I awful happy that came to an end. I got a good chuckle. Thank you.",
"Either there is a bookmark-shaped icon in the top right, or there is a “Save” option in the “…” menu.",
"William Wallace was a Pedo",
"https://www.amazon.com/How-Escaped-My-Certain-Fate/dp/0571254810\n\nstrong yes. took me forever though since I searched every reference",
"Whatever his prose lacks is made up for in how well he describes his comedic process. It was incredibly eye opening to me.",
"Dylan Moran toured in the states. There's clearly some amount of market for it.",
"[Plesiosaur!](https://youtu.be/5dwL8ESU97s)",
"God I wish I had seen this before driving along the North Circular and A40 earlier today",
"The problem is he'd have to do clubs to build up an audience and their is zero money in doing that. Best bet to break in the U.S. would be Netflix specials and get in good with u.s. comics to do their podcasts.",
"That was a great bit, but I couldn’t help but wish it had a different ending. \n\nLike…\n\n“Then there was nothing. Remember the nothing years? [same song about nothing for a minute]….. “\n\n… then mentioning that now there is “something” encroaching on our “nothing”…a la his “unwanted immigration” theme.\n\nThat’s what I was expecting at the end. Sad that he didn’t get there. Still hilarious though.",
"Aww maaaaaaaate. Why you having a go at the Nessie Truth Seekers?",
"Not the easiest one to retell when someone asks \"Does anyone know any good jokes?\" though eh",
"oi oi! \n\nb3ta is still there isn't it?\n\nI miss b3mused... I stupidly didn't save my old tracks :(",
"I have them all mate.\nAnd your logo.\nDm me.",
"Hahah yep, not a chance",
"From what I've seen, he's not a fan of Americans or the USA.",
"At the very least in the top 42.",
"Anti vaxers lol",
"never heard of this guy, googled him , found a show, skipped into it and he was in the middle of a bit about pretentious people and using, as an example, fans of his who say he's brilliant and you need to smart enough to get him..i am already sold on this guy.",
"[Here's him talking about when he tried to interview Ang Lee about directing The Incredible Hulk.](https://youtu.be/hHC13MYcrR4)\n\nThe way he squeezes every bit from this story is genius level.",
"luckily we live in a time period where we have access to an embarrassment of cultural riches & there is no possible way for a single person to experience all of the creative work that they might enjoy in a single lifetime, so it's actually not a big loss to the person who avoids something because they hate the fans either",
"###ONE MASSIVE PEAR.",
"This is the type of joke that only a truly funny person could have written or performed.",
"He's one of my favourite comedians, but there's no real way to post his comedy on reddit because he barely has any jokes that don't go on for a minimum of 15 minutes and no one on reddit is going to watch a video of someone they don't know for that long.\n\nI think he's the best currently performing comedian. A proper master of the craft.\n\n\n[Here's another incredible one..](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHA1ufmLZQY)\n\nThe fact he did it in Glasgow, known for being one of the roughest cities in Scotland, makes it all the better.\n\n\nAlso, after Christians got his play (Jerry Springer Opera) banned and tried to take him to court for blasphemy, his next stand up special dedicated the last 30 minutes or so to the graphic description of him throwing up into Jesuses anus. \n\nAnd it's hysterical.",
"This is why it's impossible to get reddit to upvote Steward Lees best stuff. \n\nYou can be waiting 10+ minutes for the proper pay off. No one takes that gamble on a 10+ minute video of a comedian.\n\nEven this bit required knowledge of the name of his show (not present in the clip), which is 'Carpet remnant world', to understand the audiences first big laugh when he looks back at the carpet remnants silently after saying 'I just thought up jokes about the shops I saw'. So many call backs, constantly. Guys amazing. \n\nI just want reddit to watch one of his specials. \n\nHe's one of the best comedians working today.",
"He has a book which is mostly his stand up scrips, annotated. Absolute must read for any aspiring comedian.",
">it’s almost like he’s doing it badly on purpose.\n\nI wouldn't be surprised.",
"His comedy has so many references to the UK, and niche cultural figures and politics and stuff. \n\nIt'd go down like a lead balloon in the USA.\n\nAn American watching his special is going to have 50% of his comedy go over their head, because no American is going to know who Dot Cotton is, or Michael Foot, or whatever. \n\nI get the same feeling sometimes where I watch American comedians, and they reference some celeb I have no idea of. \n\nFamily guy was a bit of a pain to watch too, for same reason. Didn't grow up with the shows they reference mercilessly.",
">: \n> \n>Stewart Lee Anti Islamic Stand Up\n\nAt one point he announces that he is doing observational anti islamic comedy, then runs out and does a big circle.\n\nThe audience laughs and applauds.\n\nClearly there is something I don't understand - didn't get it at all. FWIW I'm in the US and never heard of . . .all those people he mentioned.\n\nAnyway, why was him running around in a circle funny?",
"Where are you from? I've always thought he'd be a comedian that wouldn't have many foreign fans, due to the amount of UK centric cultural references in his shows.\n\n(If your comment was just all a joke, so you could do the reference at the end, then ignore me haha)",
"I mean, fair play... Some English accents I can see would be hard for a foreigner to understand. \n\nBut not his.",
"he's just waiting for people to stop laughing so no one would miss the next line, they even do this in sitcoms",
"Part of his schtick is he hates observational comedy. In the UK there is a famous comedian called Michael McIntyre who does observational comedy 'for the masses' who Stewart Lee would regularly poke fun at. For people in the UK, the running around the stage is recognisably a jibe at Michael McIntyre",
"underrated comment",
"I *think* this is making fun of how many observational comics, [particularly those that have shows in enormous venues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCfNFJg6YE4), move around the stage *way* more than is necessary for the purpose of the jokes they're trying to tell. Presumably, they do this to give audience members in as many different kinds of seats as possible a chance to feel they got their moneys worth, but has the effect of making the comic look like they drank *way* too much coffee and are now trying to walk the caffeine off to avoid having a panic attack. Lee, in typical fashion, then pushes this image way past the point of being reasonable and into the realm of absurdist hyperbole.",
">Anyway, why was him running around in a circle funny?\n\nHe is making fun of Michael McIntyre: a famous British observational comedian who tends to run around like that during his performances. Stewart Lee has a subversive Andy Kaufman-esque style aimed at ridiculing comedic tropes he sees as contrived and lowbrow.",
"[https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rrUV2-7gj8cJ9ZqnpeuxplPxbpliBJgu?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rrUV2-7gj8cJ9ZqnpeuxplPxbpliBJgu?usp=sharing)\n\n​\n\nFor starts. Getting a 10 year old linux server running mostly flash plugins is hard. \nBut these 3 tracks have your stamp.",
"Stewart Lee’s collaboration with Asian Dub Foundation is pretty cool. \n\nhttps://youtu.be/_kkOHtniTts",
"Thanks for sharing. That was gold.",
"OMG thanks so much!\n\nI already had the first one, but the 2nd one I had completely forgotten about, and the 3rd is an old version of a tune I've wanted to find again for ages!",
"It's gotta be Jungle Canyon Rope Bridges for me....\n\nIn the 80's. D'ye remember? Under Thatcher?",
"Plesure dude. Just glad you are alive. More to come.",
"Observational Comedy.......",
"\"I walk out onto these stages every night, through a forest of ghosts, of all the dead comics. And I look through them - and I see you\" is one of my favorite stewart lee lines in his whole catalogue.",
"An incredible experience. It was funny how many people were there who didn't seem to get him/hadn't seen his stuff before.",
"christ that's meta, love comedians that can pull this type of stuff off",
"The whole bit is just perfect, if you hadn't seen him before you'd think it was a real breakdown",
"You want the moon on a stick!",
"Well that certainly explains why I didn't get it, darn. Thank you for letting me know.",
"Underappreciated. Even those that don't like him rate him.",
"At the doses people were taking, it definitely was harmful. You could tell by people shitting themselves.",
"Not a single Richard Herring mention in these comments :(",
"Yeah, a lot of his shows kinda roll that way. \"*AND I'M SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THAT THAT'S A COINCIDENCE AM I? THEY HEARD THAT, THEY HEARD THAT AND SAID WE'LL TAKE THAT, AND WE'LL USE IT TO SELL CIDER!\"*",
"Plus water is cold. If the meteor hit the earth and made everything too hot then the dinosaur would have survived because he was cold. Makes ya think",
"> For me, covid did nothing to change my life, but completely and utterly destroy\n\nYour sense of time.\n\n3 full years. lol.",
"I watched the specials and read along at the same time",
"Has anyone posted 'Why I hate Top Gear' yet?",
"Thanks for the link to the Huguenots bit. Cheers",
"\"no, the shareholders' dividends were ring-fenced against the pirate zombie infestation\"",
"As a reward for persevering here's a much older and more obviously funny bit he does about [Ang Lee](https://youtu.be/hHC13MYcrR4)\nOr a much older but also very funny bit about [All Things Bright and Beautiful](https://youtu.be/E7dYXVLPd6Y). I like his older stuff more.",
"errr no.",
"there is no good writing to comedy, it's a pure art. You don't say Picasso is a terrible painter.",
"Russia. You'd be right to assume that a lot of the UK-centric stuff goes over my head, but i get more and more of it each time i watch it.\n\nAlthough, a lot of his material has enough built-in context for you to understand the character of the person being mocked and only requires a cursory knowledge of politics in general, like that David Cameron bit about rats fighting over a courgette and the only difference between them being that the David Cameron rat is wearing ***cHiNoS*** in an attempt to win the youth vote.\n\nBut i mostly just laugh whenever he makes a farting sound or runs around.",
"No it's not, he's talking about people who think the Loch Ness monster is real and it could just be a dinosaur",
"Haha, has it not been 3 years? I genuinely can't tell!\n\nLet's just agree that it's been so long now, that it may as well have been full 3 years. Cause that what it feels like anyway. And hey, the night's young, i suspect covid might have an anniversary or two in it.",
"¯\\\\\\_(ツ)_/¯\n\nThat’s just what I was expecting after that long song about nothing.",
"Initially, me and my gf were just planning on taking a trip to England, London specifically, cause i've never been abroad and neither of us has been to England, so it seemed like a great place for a holiday. Then it dawned on me that i might have a chance to catch him live and a swift google revealed that by the time we're in London, he'll be gigging in Plymouth. A 5-hour bus journey wasn't going to sway me (in fact, it was an added bonus), so i bought the ticket straight away.",
"gotta pull your punches, use white spaces, let the audience do the math. Comedy is hard. I work in it. Sort of.",
"this is just human beings today. \"I know absolutely no actual facts BUT I HAVE A STRONG OPINION ANYWAYS and you are literally worshiping satan if you dont agree with me.\"",
"The only solution is to listen to the consensus of scientists and doctors I guess.",
"One of the lesser-known awesome comedian, I had completely forgotten his name",
"This whole comment thread has been a trip. I'm partially glad I watched an hour or so of a mix of his other material and commentary on it before getting to this one, and partially sad that I'll never know how I'd have processed it in a vacuum.",
"But.. then wouldn't everything through the window be curved? Like when he looks out of it on the runway? Is it magic changing glass?",
"Great joke. Genius",
"Thank you OP for introducing me",
"Dilbert’s let himself go.",
"God I miss Rob Newman. Dude was fantastic. \n\n He’s done some sporadic radio content over the years, but not not nearly enough.",
"Probably because while Stewart Lee is delivering stand up to critical and public adoration, Richard Herring is asking people whether they’d rather have a ham for a hand or an armpit that dispenses sun cream…\n\n I do love the guy though. It’s just funny how differently their career paths went. Lee was always the sardonic, too cool one, but he seems to have left his silly side entirely behind.",
">You can be waiting 10+ minutes for the proper pay off. No one takes that gamble on a 10+ minute video of a comedian.\n\nWhich is weird, because Reddit had/has a hard on for Norm McDonald.",
"I don't know why, but the pear cider bit just cuts me into ribbons.",
"S",
"And doubly weird cause the above post has 91 upvotes and I just watched that whole thing.",
"It’s really interesting watching this and recalling how some of these techniques have been used by Bo Burnham to varying degrees.",
"One of my favourite things about Stewart Lee is he differed from all the comedians who go on and talk about political correctness being bad and how people get cancelled etc. (I still like them comedians as well btw). \n\nBut takes balls in the modern comedy circuit to come out and joke about how political correctness isn't actually a bad thing.",
"I tried but after 5 minutes I had just got chuckles so then my attention span said nope",
"I assure you he isn't. You need to watch more Stewart Lee to see what I'm talking about. He controls expectation like no comedian I've ever seen.",
"See, I love that. The way he pushes the audience into discomfort. When I saw him in 2019 he had a bit about \"saying the unsayable\" where he just made strained noises for like 5 straight minutes. I was in pieces laughing.\n\nHorses for courses I guess.",
"Submit it as its own submission and see how well it does..",
"No you misunderstood there, he writes good material and delivers it expertly.\n\nHis articles and books are not that good. He isn’t as skilled in some mediums.",
"Found an article from 2013 when Bo talks about Stewart Lee:\n\n>There was a slight backlash though, from more established comedians who weren’t too happy about some kid off the internet stealing their thunder. “Yeaaah…” he says sounding uncomfortable, “Stewart Lee hates me.”\n\n>Why’s that then? “When I was last in Edinburgh, the show was taking off and I was doing a lot of interviews. Basically, in one of them I said something like, ‘Stewart Lee is doing this amazing thing, this self-referential, post-modern comedy which I feel like I haven’t seen as much in Europe since Andy Kaufman did it.’ I was trying to say is that he’s really great, but I think it came off sounding like he’s doing something people did in the United States years ago.\n\n>“I think Stewart Lee is a genius. But I heard he talked for 10 minutes in his show about me and he was like, I’m just a 20-year old and must be singing about Facebook or something. He wrote a whole article on me. But, you know, I was 19 years old and I was on the umpteenth interview of that day and I just mixed up my words a little.”\n\nAlso, this is the article I think he references:\n\nhttps://www.stewartlee.co.uk/written_for_money/a-comedy-of-comparison/\n\nI don't actually think it's shitting on Bo Burnham in any real sense. But also I'm not sure what the fuck he was trying to say haha. \n\nAlso, in his IAMA, Bo name drops Stewart Lee as a comedian he thinks is great but lesser known:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4p6ogb/hello_im_comedian_bo_burnham_my_new_special_make/d4ihryk/\n\nBasically, he definitely does take some of his influences from Stew. You can see it in his work for sure.",
"Haha, this is some OG internet shit. Loving it.",
">Haha, has it not been 3 years? I genuinely can't tell!\n\n\nNot been two yet. \n\nBut yeah, it feels like a lifetime ago now. These past 2 years have felt like 4 to me.",
"Legitimately, the best stand up alive.\n\nHis fucking librarian joke, is peak fuck you to the audience.",
"Yeah attention spans are fickle for certain things. But its not Chappelle wouldn't get upvotes for his long form story jokes. Maybe its just an exposure thing",
"What's wrong with cupping the water in you hands and drinking it like a cat?",
"What was the punchline? sometimes I feel like I don't understand english.",
">He was the last live thing I saw before the pandemic and it was one of the best live gigs I've ever seen.\n\nGlad to hear you saw him before the pandemic. I had tickets to see him on the new snowflake/tornado tour for 2020, which was subsequently cancelled. It has been postponed about 3 or 4 times now and I'm genuinely unsure when or if it's still happening.",
"Haha, I did once, got him to sign his book. He started trying to make conversation and asking me questions, and because of how he is on stage it took me completely off guard and I just said thanks and legged it. It's tricky to separate his stage persona from him actually just being a nice chill guy.",
"Try, \nDaniel Kitson,\nRob Newman and\nSimon Munnery as starting points.",
"Dead Bill Hicks\n\nhttps://youtu.be/KSEtMZh2exc",
"'What if a dinosaur had got in the lake?'",
"https://youtu.be/IkI9h7EGYvI",
"Thanks for asking, I didn't understand it either lol",
"Woah. Comedy Without Errors. Didn't think I'd see him on Reddit. His piece about James Caster is my favorite.",
"Only difference: a social media post would start be declaring they had done their own research in all those areas.",
"N…no you mustn’t! You must do your own research! Or listen to a real medical professional, like Joe Rogan!",
"See his website, the tour is scheduled to start this January",
"I love how he delivered it. Never seen this guy before.",
"For decades now, Stewart has been one of comedy's biggest voices for progressivism and political correctness. Sticking up for minorities and attacking right wing politics with some highly clever comedy, consistently, since the 80s. Young people on the left should adore him.\n\nBut he has that bit where he's attacking racism and says the n word a bunch of times so most I know have declared him a nazi instead.",
"It would have drowned or asked people for three fiddy",
"Cool. Looks like I'll be seeing him in January afterall!",
"Terry Christian’s let himself go",
"Yeah, I'd say that's an accurate summation of the average internet commenter.",
"You telling me this guy is akin to Norm?\n\nlol was a legit question, wasn't being snide. watched that clip and I enjoyed it. Gonna have to watch some more.",
"Stewart Lee is a legend!",
"There was a time it was simply too easy for him, he could make people laugh non stop for the whole show -- they were even warmed up and laughing as soon as he walked on stage. That's when he decided to make it more of a performance piece where he made people hate him in the first half and then challenged himself to gradually win them back. Some reviewers missed this point and just thought he was a bad comedian who had better luck at the end of the show. He discussed this in interviews.",
"k.d lang has let herself go.",
"Jealous. I think he's easily the best comedian out there. His Comedy Vehicle is just masterful. \"I like dogs...\"",
"[Some reviews. ](https://youtu.be/78Puggk5MCA)",
"Ha ha Gypsies!",
"*\"...or a worm's egg on the rim of a cats bottom.\"*",
"Stewart Lee is an absolute genius",
"Is... Is that... Is that General Ratko Mladic? Shouldn't be at the Hague being heard for war crimes?",
"that's *well* written. Superman does good.",
"'But I think'",
"ELI5?",
"95%? You're quite an optimist, aren't you?",
"41st Best Stand-up Ever!",
"Also don't forget that Stewart Lee (at least the on-stage character of Stewart Lee) [hates James Corden](https://youtu.be/q60Y8tPzWpg)",
"Can anyone translate the first sentence and the last one about the lake? I don't understand his accent",
"Watch the entirety of Stewart Lee - Comedy Vehicle if you can find it.",
"In his show \"if you prefer a milder comedian please ask for one\" he starts off by doing half an hour - ish bits that all intentionally fail and then become hilarious because of their failure. \n\nThen says he hates Top Gear and asks if anyone knows Top Gear (nearly the whole room does) and if anyone else hates it as well (1 person responds that he does). To then go on with, well that's unfortunate because I'm now going to go on about how I hate Top Gear for about 45 minutes and then do around 20 minutes about cider.\" \n\nAnd then he of course proceeds to do exactly that.",
"Alright, you sold me, I'm gonna track down one of his specials today and see what he's all about",
"So you're saying there's a chance?",
"James Acaster you mean? Does he talk about him on stage?\n\n I'm aware of him praising Acaster's stand-up in interviews, but not of him talking about him in his act.",
"I hope I see the day where humanity out grows social media. Sadly it's more likely that I will see it fully consume us all.",
"Yeah Acaster. Mobile auto corrected. Here's the video I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP3Gr-ZV0Tw",
"was just talking about his one clip, I am not saying he isn't a master or anything",
"Oh, I've just realized you're talking about the YT channel, not about Stewart Lee. \n\nLee has praised Acaster in various interviews, and I thought you were saying he has a bit about him in his stand-up. My mistake.\n\n I am going to watch that video though, because I love James Acaster.",
"He basically says.. \"Lots of people say the Loch Ness monster doesn't exist..... Now I don't know anything about... long list of disciplines related to subject... *But I think*....... What if a dinosaur got into the lake?\"",
"> Simon Munnery \n\n[The closest comedy gets to modern art](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga-LLG0HS0w)",
"He was quick Stew. Quick as a...he was like lightning. Coming out of a... dish.",
"His theory is that a dinosaur got into Loch Ness, somehow survived the extinction of the dinosaurs, and somehow, I dunno, evolved into the Loch Ness Monster. Because that is how evolution works to people who don't understand evolution, I guess.",
"Thanks!",
"Carpet Remnant World is fantastic. I'd start with that one.",
"Also the amount of people who can properly conduct research without ever have taken a graduate level research methods course is astounding these days.",
"lol he really lets the joke brew in your mind before unleashing the punchline. really good shit!",
"That's why I only listen to people who claim to be experts and never do any thinking for myself.",
"Because most of Reddit is American.",
"I liked his absolute trashing of Jeremy Clarkson and Richard Hammond.",
"Whilst I appreciate Stewart Lee, far too many of his stand ups have people in the crowd clearly trying to 'laugh harder than everyone else' because they 'get the funny smart mans jokes'. Seen it numerous times, the guy says 'I don't know anything about zooology' and people in the crowd start laughing, then trying to outlaugh each other. Fuck that.",
"I (an American) never found Norm funny, and have gotten shit on by Reddit whenever saying so over the last 5 years, and I'll never compromise on that. \n\nSo personally I think the people circlejerking about how \"clever\" he was for his *trailblazing* comedic talent of using tongue-in-cheek humor on other boomers, is in the same category as people circlejerking about how they are intellectuals for liking Rick and Morty, and thinking anyone who disagrees just \"doesn't get it.\"\n\nAhem... point being I'm a bad person to ask. \n\nBut I'd say they are different movies, same genre. Stewart Lee definitely comes off as more meta, interesting, and funny to me than Norm. \n\nBut unlike with Norm, there do seem to be periods of dead air and repetition that miss the mark despite his commitment to them. And Americans are definitely less likely to have the patience for that.",
"I'd upvote you for your candor, but then I'd have to downvote you for not liking Norm. And I love irreverent/strange comedy so I enjoyed that bit from Lee.",
"He's got nothing on Tom O'Connor though",
"What makes you say that? I don't like or rate him, just wondering why you think that would be true.",
"Terry is more entertaining."
] | 275 |
videos
|
This one joke from Stewart Lee from 2014 sums up for me 95% of social media today.
|
https://youtu.be/9ZwoR4QWFMs
|
/r/videos/comments/qpiiwf/travis_scott_clearly_sees_the_ambulance_and_then/
|
[
"I do hope his career never recovers.",
"I hope it all works out.",
"I'm having such a hard time understanding the *why* behind his response. Perhaps that's the lesson, in certain cases, there is no why ..\n\nedit: after doing some \"internet research\" (never heard of him before this) I guess he violated rule #4, 'never get high on your own supply' :(",
"It won’t. Not for the dead people.",
"That’s gonna play well in his lawsuits…fucking ignorant tool…",
"Wishful thinking. \n\nNothing will change.",
"He is a low IQ human who has been catapulted to a status he doesn't deserve no matter what angle you look at it at. It's way above his processing power.",
"r/FuckTravisScott",
"Why this piece of shit not in custody?!?",
"Explain?",
"He seems like a terrible person.",
"Yeah. Could totally see the Windows BSOD playing in his head trying to figure out what to do next. That was the look of a man with a fragile ego freaking out because all the attention wasn't on him.",
"This is a simple but plausible and fairly comprehensive explanation for much of the ridiculous facepalm conduct in which many different celebrities engage.",
"This Travis Scott situation makes me see how hypocritical Reddit is about rappers.\n\nRedditors mad about Travis Scott but laugh at Ozzy Osborne locking a little person in luggage storage, posting about how “cool” it would be to see GG Allin live, laughing at folks over at r/Hermancainaward, this site is so hypocritical and honestly racist on how they treat a black artist being wild vs a white artist acting a fool.",
"Reddit isn't a monolith.",
"Rap music idolizes low IQ psychopaths. That's why.\n\nFor the record, I love rap as far as the music goes, but the culture is undoubtedly toxic.",
"Those Herman Cain award winners (for the most part) brought that shit on themselves , this is not the same",
"If anything, this is going to help his career.",
"\"Glad we ended that $20m sponsorship with him last year, before this shit came out.\" - McDonalds, probably",
"He seems a bit dumb.",
"Fuck him.",
"How about every dipshit in the crowd that raised a middle finger?",
"Honestly I think this is the most simple answer. He’s dumb. He didn’t understand the situation and instead of processing it, he reacted in a way that someone really stupid would. \n\nEgo and stupidity is a dangerous combo. But he should absolutely have had someone working for him that is smart enough to tell him what to do in this situation. \n\nThat’s what baffles me. He has to have a publicist and handlers of some type there who realized what he should have done.",
"Imagine being near the panic, and this guy just restarts his music. With the crowd going crazy on his music...must be a terrifying and helpless situation.",
"I couldn't disagree more...",
"In fairness, seeing an ambulance at a big concert isn’t a huge deal. If you weren’t near where it happened and the performer was telling you to throw your middle finger in the air, you could reasonably assume that whatever the issue was has already been resolved.",
"I disagree. A lot has changed already",
"You mean it's not thr same 30 people in every comment thread?",
"Because we live in a nation of laws, not mob justice. One must be credibly accused (enough to convince a judge to put his name on a warrant) of a crime to be put \"in custody.\" A crime is something really specific written down in a book. It is not a generic term for wrongdoing.",
"fuck travis scott, and fuck his entire following.",
"I read this as Tom Scott and was very confused",
"Upvote",
"Which still leaves no reasonable reason to flip off an ambulance.",
"Oh look. Another dumb piece of shit making millions.",
"Chris brown beat the living shit out of a woman and is still massively popular",
"Find me at least one person expressing hypocritical views about those different topics on reddit.",
"There’s always a backlash to the backlash, like the way R Kelly and Chris Brown became more popular to certain people",
"He’s dating a kardashion. How every you spell that shit name. Nothing will happen sadly. Nothing happens when rich people do bad shit.",
"Nearly beat an A-list celebrity to death too at that. If pieces of shit like him were ever going to face consequences it would be then, but nope",
"The douchebags are thriving in this country. Don't expect that to change.",
"There’s a girl at the beginning that goes “all the more reason to rageee”. Everyone involved is dumb. I think people are really disillusioned by hype, celebrity, and social media and don’t know how the real world works like people can get hurt and we should help them when that happens.",
"\"Due to the circumstances of his being rich, we've decided that nobody is to blame.\" - local law enforcement",
"I didn't even know who Travis was when that promotion came out, wasn't interested in knowing either. Glad I was right.",
"Were they flipping off the ambulance? I just thought it was one of those “everybody put your fingers in the air” kind of thigns that so many musicians do",
"Keep in mind people paid for tickets to participate. Everyone in the audience should be charged with accessory.",
"Heavy heavy drugs.",
"Did anyone die at a GG Allin show?",
">But he should absolutely have had someone working for him that is smart enough to tell him what to do in this situation. \n\nThis is exactly it. Even if he's dumb. Even if he didn't understand the gravity of the situation for whatever reason, there needed to be a mechanism to tone things down.",
"I've never heard of this guy before this weekend.",
"I’m having a hard understand what people don’t see? He’s completely annihilated on drugs. Someone that heavy drugged isn’t thinking straight whatsoever. All he hears is the song in his ear and his fake ass auto tune. It’s really not that hard to see.",
"Chris Brown nearly beat Rihanna to death and still has a huge fanbase. I'm not going to claim to be some enlightened god above all the rabble but sometimes humanity just feels doomed for failure.",
"I will never defend what Chris Brown did, and I am not a fan of his since the incident. However, Chris Brown did not preside over the death of 8 young people and perhaps brain injury and myocardial ischemia of dozens more, and lead the OBSTRUCTION of security and emergency personnel from rescuing those children by throwing the middle finger to them and encouraging concertgoers to dance atop the ambulances so that they couldn't leave with dying people in them. Travis Scott is literally on a similar or worse level as other proxy murderers like news anchors who encourage people to not get vaccinated.",
"Hey R Kelly was found guilty at least!",
"Even worse, I never heard of him before, and many people didin't... and now he is world wide known... and will get many new followers...",
"There's a button for that, ya know?",
"douchebags won't stop following douchebags for douchebaggery...",
"Why is he just gawking slack jawed. He must be on something",
"Lmao what? You’re basically saying the audience is partially responsible for the outcome of what happened to the audience . This would be too much self placed responsibility for the mental gymnastics occurring in these threads.",
"In a way this makes me think of American gods",
"Same",
"Brown resumed punching Robyn F. and she interlocked her fingers behind her head and brought her elbows forward to protect her face. She then bent over at the waist, placing her elbows and face near her lap in \\[an\\] attempt to protect her face and head from the barrage of punches being levied upon her by Brown.\r \n\r \nBrown continued to punch Robyn F. on her left arm and hand, causing her to suffer a contusion on her left triceps (sic) that was approximately two inches in diameter and numerous contusions on her left hand.\r \n\r \nRobyn F. then attempted to send a text message to her other personal assistant, Melissa Ford. Brown snatched the cellular telephone out of her hand and threw it out of the window onto an unknown street.\r \n\r \nBrown continued driving and Robyn F. observed his cellular telephone sitting in his lap. She picked up the cellular telephone with her left hand and before she could make a call he placed her in a head lock with his right hand and continued to drive the vehicle with his left hand.\r \n\r \nBrown pulled Robyn F. close to him and bit her on her left ear. She was able to feel the vehicle swerving from right to left as Brown sped away. He stopped the vehicle in front of 333 North June Street and Robyn F. turned off the car, removed the key from the ignition and sat on it.\r \n\r \nBrown did not know what she did with the key and began punching her in the face and arms. He then placed her in a head lock positioning the front of her throat between his bicep and forearm. Brown began applying pressure to Robyn F.'s left and right carotid arteries, causing her to be unable to breathe and she began to lose consciousness.\r \n\r \nShe reached up with her left hand and began attempting to gouge his eyes in an attempt to free herself. Brown bit her left ring and middle fingers and then released her. While Brown continued to punch her, she turned around and placed her back against the passenger door. She brought her knees to her chest, placed her feet against Brown's body and began pushing him away. Brown continued to punch her on the legs and feet, causing several contusions.\r \n\r \nRobyn F. began screaming for help and Brown exited the vehicle and walked away.",
"This. Who is this guy? And if everyone thinks he's evil then stop posting about him.\n\nIts like publishing the names of active shooters....why do it?",
"What has changed?",
"Give Award",
"I think it's cardashian.\n\nWe should misspell that shit on purpose. Who cares about these people anyway.",
"No everyone on Reddit is the same person, except for the above poster, who can see things from the outside. Obviously.",
"Granted that black woman was Rihanna but yeah your point still stands. Probably gonna get downvoted too but you're right.",
"People saying they hope his career dies...your realize most of his fanbase are teens that don't give a fuck about anything,frat boys,etc...look at chris brown. Dude beat a girl up and hes still makin movies and records like nothing happened.",
"That’s the dumbest looking dude I’ve seen on Reddit in awhile. It took him a full 40 seconds of the video to figure out how to respond and the response he decided on was the opposite of what he should have decided upon.",
"Thug culture.",
"Just like Chris Brown’s career. Oh wait.",
"They're not flipping off the ambulance lmao wtf",
"Never heard of this guy before the incident, he can’t have had much of one to begin with.",
"Haha. Clearly a case of affluenza, and he should not be held responsible at all :|",
"Smash that subscribe button!",
"The #2 song on Apple Hits is \"Escape Plan\" by Travis Scott.",
"Perhaps that's why he decided to flip the bird. He realized the people in his ear said the concert was over and he told them \"no\".",
"I never understood the obsession with the Calrissians",
"shoutout to the guy that at least, very audibly is like \"yo don't do that, it's an ambulance, why would you do that\", even though it seems like he doesn't know what's happened.",
"He’s more famous.",
"Chris Brown still has a career singing love songs. So probably not",
"I don't understand the comparison. Gabby Petito went missing. An entirely different situation.",
"I went and listened to half (which was all I could tolerate) of his number one song to see what all the hype is about. I still don’t know why he’s popular. His music is trash.",
"Seriously, the Carflashians are all garbage people.",
"This is such nonsense. It's not like old republicans support him now because he beat up a black woman.\n\nHis fans were young women before the incident, and guess who his fans were after the incident? Still young women.",
"what? what are you saying?",
"I don’t understand how these people are inspired to rage by this boring, generic, corporate sellout, pop music. I don’t understand that entire section of society.",
"I’d say what’s more crazy is how obsessed with race you seem to be.",
"Yeah but he was like 25 years past his relevant point. Nothing happened during his prime even though it was widely known he was up to no good",
"I'm not in any way making excuses for him, but I don't know how anyone could have expected that he would have known what to do and behaved appropriately in this situation. I honestly believe he has the emotional maturity and decision making skills of a child. His apology and all the other videos surfacing point to this. There needed to be an adult in charge who could have taken over and shut it down. He needs a minder.",
"Missing white woman syndrome is real but I think Gabby isn’t really a fair comparison. She was already a public figure in some aspect being on YouTube and Insta. Then you have the drama of the boyfriend returning, not cooperating, and subsequently going missing himself. Lots of variables to make Gabby’s missing person case somewhat out of the ordinary. It wasn’t like her parents filled a missing person report and there was no other evidence or persons of interest and her case blew up for no reason.",
"Hey! That's unfair to Windows. Windows at least locks up when it knows it can't handle the situation.",
"His music is so shit, why do people like him?",
"Pointless disagreement.",
"Where",
"Again, not comparable to the Chris Brown situation, where people take sides.",
"“Fuck sick and injured people!”\n\n—Things Nazis say",
"Save & Follow",
"You might not have but he was famous enough to have a McDonald’s sponsorship.",
"It's the Rihanna police report.",
"Or he's dumb as a post and lucked into his life.",
"At least go on a date first",
"He preformed at the superbowl. He had his own McDonald's meal, starting the current trend of celeb meals. I don't think he's any good but he's obviously popular.",
"Just a little reminder for all who downplay chris brown assaulting rihanna. This is from the police report.\n\nedit to add: (Robyn F is Rihanna)",
"These videos coming out get worse and worse every hour. This guy is a clear sociopath",
"Mcdonalds has a meal named after him",
"For real, the Travis Scott witch hunt Reddit is on the past couple days is cringe af.\n\nWith that being said, god damn bro could have handled that situation a lot better.\n\nBut all these mouth breathing neckbeards saying he's \"low IQ\" and doesn't deserve his fame or status sound dumb as fuck",
"The people that have died and those that have been injured as a result of this tragedy are included within his following. They didn't deserve for this to happen, leave it out",
"As far as I am concerned he should be charged with neglect causing death.",
"That’s what I gathered. I’m not defending him because it’s not excusable to put people in danger. It looks like he’s trying to understand what’s going on but doesn’t quite grasp the seriousness of the situation. Ambulances and medics are not uncommon at festivals but they are uncommon in a crowd. Then putting the fingers up, it could be his way of calming things down? I also imagine he has to have an earpiece to communicate with his team. If so, that was a massive failure on their part.",
"A sudden expectation of acceptable social conduct would seem to be unrealistic.",
"Oh look another reddit comment",
"Fuck him and his fans",
"Records I'm sure but movies?",
"Downvote",
"I think there’s a lot going on that we don’t understand yet (and that even those involved and investigating ) but what I do know, if that ambulance was for Kylie and their daughter and it wasn’t able to get through, heads would be rolling right now. He would’ve stopped the concert in a heartbeat. People like him don’t care about others until it hits home.",
"\"[he's rich..... but he's also black.....](https://c.tenor.com/Q-ZI_V15MAoAAAAC/curb-your-enthusiasm-larry-david.gif)\" - cops",
"Whats the meal?",
"Fuck the paramedics, fuck fuck, fuck the para…\n\nNo wait that’s not right.\n\nGuess I know as much about rap/hip hop as Travis does.",
"Username checks out",
"Those two dudes behind him in the video actually went on stage to inform him, and you can hear him say something like \"nah nah,\" then says \"y'all know what y'all came here to do.\" \n\nThe fact that everyone here is absolving him by calling him dumb or low IQ is annoying as fuck. He is not dumb. He just didn't care.",
"\"I'm never going to financially recover from this\"",
"Really don't care for him",
"To be honest no idea. Just remember hearing the name. When I heard the name I was like who tf is that? Thought it was a basketball thing.",
"Reddit is made up of millions of different people.\n\nDid you think that “Reddit”… was a dude? Like it was just you and *Reddit* talking all this time?\n\nThat’s like when my son thought “England” was a guy.",
"Or maybe because she’s a woman?",
"Case in point: look at all the people flipping off the ambulances with him, completely cool with what’s happening because it’s not happening to them or theirs",
"He stops the show for a minute after he sees an ambulance Then asks them to make the groundshake. \n\nThis is actually like 0:30 of this Other angle https://youtu.be/iy7rZYwfxnc. At 13:00 is the clip where he is elevated humming to the kid being carried out.",
"I used to tutor middle school kids when that happened. one seventh grade girl said she loved him and when I said he's not a good person for battering someone, she responded \"I don't care, he's mad cute and she deserves it\". I was not sure how to respond without cursing so I shook my head and went back to the lesson.",
"They're both white. He was cancelled when people thought he was guilty. But now that he's kinda been semi-vindicated, he's no longer cancelled, but nobody's moving to cancel Amber Heard in case she really was the victim. Has nothing to do with skin colour.\n\nEdit; I mean nobody with power is moving to cancel Amber Heard. Any attempts to cancel her hasn't gotten much traction yet.",
"This is so dumb. You realize there are other people with that last name right? Or is Scott also a shit name now?",
"Hey now, don't lump us heavy heavy drug users in with that bell end",
"i still dont know what a saweetie is",
"In the beginning you can even hear some girl say \"...even more reason to RAAAAGE!\"\n\nAbsolute morons.",
"He makes good music",
"What are you even talking about?. Travis Scott is dating kiley kardashion Jenner. Both are shitty soulless cunts.",
"Waddling",
"Breaking news: Travis Scott just announced his 2024 presidential nominee bid, is expected to win.",
"Yeah I wouldn't have the slightest clue how to deal with that without completely losing my temper. I once overheard some older female coworkers talking about Chris Brown and one of them said something like \"I'd let him beat me any time!\" and fortunately the rest of them tore her apart over it. She didn't really change her opinion but at least she was properly shamed for it.",
"I mean it just came out the night before the festival and was part of his album rollout so it got a ton of traffic, I’d imagine it’ll fall soon",
"To increase awareness and enforce accountability. \nLike I get what you're saying, but I really don't think the answer is to just ignore every terrible thing done, that doesn't feel like a step forward.",
"inside him like all the time, not that its an excuse lol",
"It is…it is doomed.",
"We need thoughts like this in police heads.",
"Increase awarness is code for virtue signaling and karma whoring.",
"New Travis Scott meal: Pancakes and crushed McRibs",
"He was one of the most spineless performers I'd ever seen, I think it was at Lollapalooza in 2016? I just remember him calling everybody in the crowd pussies, screaming fuck security and to rush the stage. Then somebody must've told him to cut it out because he immediately flipped and was like \"what are you idiots doing\" - then got his ass shut down like 20 minutes into the set.",
"He’s been arrested for inciting a riot before, why is he not arrested now? This riot resulted in deaths",
"Fake druggy",
"Cocaine.",
"No joke, this isn't drugs. This is a lack of moral fiber and a soul that's been sold.",
"Ok, but why does that make Kardashian a shit name? Wtf does a name have to do with anything?",
"Me neither, and probably don't want to know either hahaha",
"TIL Chris Brown is \"rap\" lol. Silly racist.",
"I didn't know who he was until 8 people got killed at his concert. Now all I know about him is he is a grade A douchebag who doesn't care if people are dying right in front of him. Hopefully I never hear of this guy again other than when he goes to prison.",
"Because that family. The kardashions. You know exactly what family I’m talking about is a shit name. They are nobody’s. Yet they are filthy rich and have a giant platform for no reason. I’m talking about THAT SPECIFIC FAMILY. Not the others. Not the one over there. THE ONE WHO HAS HAD A SHOW ABOUT THE SHIT FAMILY MEMBERS. Holy shit.",
"Ooooor maybe he might not have had the full picture of what was actually going on? \n\nMaybe he just thought someone passed out and didnt know that there were alot of shit going on?\n\nThis video make and a bunch of others make it sound like he actually paused the performance when shit was going on. Which is completely different than what alot of people on reddit seem to be saying where they claim he never stopped for a second...",
"That’s some dark shit",
"This is the mentality I have every time cancel culture kicks in. Put down your pitchforks and at least give our laws a chance to do their job.",
"What a great remodel for this next generation, I bet they grow up fantastic people /s",
"Get an award",
"I get the rage, people died. But honestly if I was performing on stage and none of my staff or show organisers told me otherwise I would assume the the issue was minor and under control. \n\nHe looked shocked, confused and obviously turned around to question what’s happening with the closest organiser on stage. No one tells him anything so he continues doing his job by keeping the crowd (his customers) entertained. I guarantee most people would do the same thing regardless of the industry.\n\nWe shouldn’t expect the performer on stage, who is only trained to do what he’s doing (that being sing and entertain) to suddenly become a mind reader and know to stop the show.\n\nThere needs to be a thorough investigation into the whole setup of this event. We shouldn’t just point the finger directly at the artist and pin everything on him like this. How the hell was he to know if no one said anything?",
"Another thing that's fucked about yelling a crowd experiencing a crowd crush to throw their middle finger to the sky is that those arms aren't coming back down. Now there's one less barrier between your lungs and the mass of people.",
"If there's one thing that rages, it's a giant McNugget pillow.",
"He didnt actually tell them to flip off an ambulance though... \n\nHe told them to put a middle finger in the air, not towards anything...\n\nThen he told them to put both arms up... He was simply trying to get the audience to stop what they were doing and follow his moves to put a pause to what was going on is my guess...",
"100% this, they werent flipping off the ambulance, that's the narrative some idiots on reddit is trying to push, the video actually proves them wrong but they still go on, lol.",
"I thought he was a producer because a song he did with Young Thug showed up on my Spotify and with all the auto tune they sounded legit the same so I just thought it was Young Thug on the track",
"The Mc sweetie was my favorite of the mcd’s specials but I felt awkward ordering it. Maybe I’m just a McBitch. Regardless, it was delicious.",
"Then what *were* they flipping off? Where was that directed?",
"My girlfriend in college defended Chris Brown's domestic violence. I can't tolerate people like that, so I beat the shit out of her",
"That's actually how I was hoping for the fingers up thing as well, everyone got very quiet so it could have been genius. \n\nInstead, it was another murder pit waiting to happen.",
"You must be new on the internet then. :P\n\nHe was big enough to get his own meal at McD and a Jordan brand deal...",
"The amount of projection and judgment over this entire incident is becoming more disturbing than any of his actions honestly. There were 100k people at the show. That should be all you need to know right there. There were other people in charge that should have shut things down before it ever reached 100k people crammed together in a venue not capable of holding 100k people. No one should die going to a concert, no matter how close they want to get to the front of the stage. \n\nThis was a breakdown in logistics, management, and personnel. It is not solely Travis' fault although he bears responsibility for the lack of safety and response. Keep in mind people are probably on pills at his show to begin with. His first thought could have been they passed out from dehydration (which happens a lot with molly/ecstacy). It could have been a medical reason too. If he sees they're being carried away what else is he supposed to do? Entertain these people that paid money to see him perform. It's all an act and persona in rap and hip-hop music, and the ones with the largest egos show it on stage. You can tell after he's informed that it's serious he says put two hands up instead of the middle finger. \n\nSomeone with the balls (figure of speech) needed to go up to him and tell him what was going on early and that he needs to cut the music entirely and that people were actually suffocating to death and being trampled.",
"At this point, I’m beginning to think that this type of disrespect for other humans is part of his brand.",
"The ones who died, died. The ones whp didn't, laughed at the ones who died.\n\nHis fanbase doesn't give a shit. If anything, the fact people died at his concert will cement to them the idea that his music slaps and goes hard, and real fans survive.",
"I had to look it up. It's just a quarter pounder with bacon, regular fries and a sprite. Plus BBQ sauce for dipping. Probably one of the least unique things you could order at a McDonalds.",
"What happens when someone has no authority figures. They feel like they're on top of the world and work so long to be this larger than life figure, and learn from the reactions of others, until they've put themself into a character development corner where nothing improves or grows because how can it? \n\nYoure fucked if you get in this rut as a normie peasant, but can probably mediocre yourself through life relying on priviledge or it takes 30 yrs to get where youre at and you'll retire from that place without leaving so much as a shit stain as a legacy",
"Cosby and Weinstein, too. Both had to start fading out of relevance before they were brought down.",
"The douche meter just keeps multiplying.",
"Gangster culture is embraced far too much. They think they look strong and fierce but in reality a few of them become stars and the rest get hooked on drugs and go to jail. I hate seeing a young kid looking up to that.",
"I don’t get rappers just yelling over their own recorded songs it sounds like shit",
"I highly doubt it.",
"Or that girl had no idea what really was happening. she prob feels like shit rn",
"I don't like this angry culture he's perpetuating. I know hip hop has had a lot of angry themes in the past, but it used to be about more than that. Call me old-fashioned, but this type of rage inducing shit works because it exploits the juicy dopamine receptors of the 15-22 demographic. It lacks nuance. And actual words that you can make out. \n/rant",
"They clearly didn’t have the right safety protocols in place for how to respond to an emergency in the crowd. For that reason, he is negligent in my opinion, since it’s his festival, and he should see consequences for the awful handling of the situation.",
"Stop Making Stupid, Horrible People Famous!!",
"So why is everyone raging that the entertainer should have known to stop the show if seeing an ambulance at a big event isn’t a huge deal? \n\nGenuine question. I honestly don’t understand the rage directed towards the artist here when this is entirely the fault of the event staff.",
"There's no chance of that happening. None.",
"It was. People are looking to place blame",
"Put this guy behind bars, he's a danger to society.",
"That dumb look on his stupid face really sells the fact that he’s an idiot with zero empathy",
"I can’t keep up with all those Kadashkins",
"So is the name Kardashian only shit when you’re talking about those specific people, and fine when you’re talking about anyone else with that name? That just sounds like the name has nothing to do with it.",
"I get that he’s a piece of shit for enabling this behavior, but nobody seems to talk about the people IN THE AUDIENCE who actually killed/trampled those people.\n\nThey are the true idiots that need to be charged.",
"He *looks* like a terrible person, without even opening his mouth.",
"He looked out saw the ambulance took a good 30 seconds to think about what to do next and told the crowd to flip off the ambulance. WTF?!",
"I’m no fan of Travis Scott, I couldn’t name many of his songs, but I just wanted to say thanks for this. The rage directed on him is so unjustified. This was entirely the fault of the event organisers.",
"Well Chris Brown didn’t contribute to hundreds of injuries and several deaths... but I see your point.",
"well i never heard of that guy before... now i know him... fame increased",
"This is the point when his two buddies on stage suddenly turn and leap feet first on top of people in the crowd who were up front, so probably the ones who were being the most crushed, and these two dudes just jumped on top of them without any warning, as if they could move even if they had seen it coming. Observe: [https://youtu.be/1Q1AF00SqXE?t=1843](https://youtu.be/1Q1AF00SqXE?t=1843) (also notice how after that intense song there is like no cheering at all, eerily quiet response)\n\nLots of scummy, sick behavior happened that night.",
"A huge female fan base* fixed that for you. Baffles me.",
"Same reason some people like marmite and think the music you enjoy is shit.",
"\"Virtue signalling\" ... So we shouldn't call out domestic abuse? \n\nEvery time I hear the term virtue signalling, I know that it's from some mouth breather who probably finished reading their daily brief from ben shapiro or joe rogan or some other idiot. \n\n​\n\nPlease tell me I'm wrong.",
"Has this been proven?",
"Well, he's an entitled mumble rapper with a bunch of new money, so it's to be expected...\n\nEdit: I don't fucking care what kind of rapper he is.\n\nLol, so many people upset about me calling this piece of shit person a mumble rapper.",
"He'll gain some traction and trend upwards, but hopefully when the dust settles he'll have a hard time finding sponsors and fanbase.\n\nImagine that most of his notoriety comes from this moment because, of course, his material is far bellow mediocre.",
"Need to tell the joke fast so it doesn’t fall flat.",
"Ah the OJ Simpson paradox",
"I wonder why Drake built such a tall wall around his house and loves to talk to people half his age... hopefully we don't see history repeat itself.",
"This guy Mickey D’s.",
"From my own experience it's pretty common for artists to tell the crowd to put up their middle fingers in the air right before starting a song",
"What a low life",
"He can't speak, he communicates through punching.",
"Because he is on a stage, has handlers who surely know what is going on, and has full visibility into the crowd. \n\nHe may not see everything, but he can definitely figure it out more than a person on the other side of the crowd",
"500 times a day on reddit isn't going to accomplish anything.\n\nVolunteer your time to venue safey stuff maybe? Donate you time and money. Social media posts just make you feel good.",
"I don't think you understand how crowds work and how stampedes occur. \n\nThis article explains it pretty well.\n\nhttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/07/crush-point",
"I'm crushed about the surge in jokes of this nature",
"Idiot",
"This world is terrifying.",
"So his apology video is a bunch of bs",
"Um I think his career will get even bigger",
"[Cosby has been released back in June](https://apnews.com/article/bill-cosby-conviction-overturned-5c073fb64bc5df4d7b99ee7fadddbe5a)",
"But why? What is the sentiment they are trying to convey with that? And why instruct the crowd to do that when an ambulance is trying to get to the scene of an emergency?",
"Every large concert should be mandated to have a safety official who is set up to cut the stage mics and put themselves up on the PA at any moment.\n\nI don't doubt for a moment that Travis Scott is a genuine shithead who behaved in a 100% different way than he should have. But it seems unrealistic to expect performers to be aware of what is happening while they perform at all times and to be experts at crowd control. As soon as Scott proved himself to not be up to the task of maintaining safety in that moment, his authority to proceed with the show should have been instantly revoked and people who know what the fuck to do should have taken over.",
"“I dont watch sports, who’s Messi? Tom Brady? These guys must be nobodies”",
"Save yourself my friend. I’m no TS fan but I have karma to burn.",
"believe it or not people listen to and enjoy music that isn't video game OSTs",
"Even the people in the crowd didn’t know they where standing on bodies until they fell too",
"These rappers come and go every year or so with the exact same personalities making the exact same music in the exact same way about the exact same things. \n\n\nThere's no point committing any of their names to memory. \nHe'll be forgotten in a year just like the one he replaced was. (Unless you're into true crime I guess.)",
"He is obviously confused about what is going on, asking people around him what is happening, and is stalling for time. Medical emergencies during huge festivals are an extremely common occurence.\n\nI cannot fathom how someone could look at this video where he is clearly confused and concerned for the first 20-30 seconds and think, \"What an asshole, he didn't even care!\"\n\nThe title also implies he tells everyone to flip off the ambulance which is just a flat out lie.",
"Now who's virtue signaling?",
"You mean like RKelly. Dude was an uncaged animal for 25 years and they just kept releasing his cute little love songs. It finally stopped....after almost 3 decades.",
"I'd say it's more like the buffering circle.",
"i wonder how many drugs he was on",
"I honestly want to see some sort of sociology study on celebrities being able to bounce back so easily from some things but not from others. It's fascinating to me that once you have enough money you can pretty much say or do whatever you want to a point and still keep a career.",
"Yep but teens need parents permission and money to go to shows. A lot of parents if they were planning on getting kids tickets are not anymore.",
"but his music is bad",
"I guess you mean me? Is it me? did i win?",
"I don't have an answer for the why or the sentiment it's just something that's been a part of the majority of shows I've been to.\n\nIt's not like he saw the ambulance and immediately tells the audience to put their middle fingers up. My guess just from the video is that Travis saw the ambulance, pauses his show to let the ambulance go through, sees it got to where it needed to get to, and assumed the situation was taken care of. I highly, highly doubt he knew the severity of the situation at the time",
"Glad to know this joke is okay in a couple days.",
"i mean it's a pretty common thing to do. \n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/travisscott/comments/9vrl01/throw_your_your_middle_finger_in_the_air_and_lets/\n\nhe's done it before as well. yeah, his timing was shit but i highly doubt it was aimed at the ambulance.",
"Travis is a piece of shit but he’s not going to be forgotten in a year. That’s guy made 53 million on his last Astroworld Tour. And the comment about saying that Young thug and Travis sound the same let’s me know that you don’t listen to both of them. \n\nFuck travis Scott.",
"I've always said you can never trust someone with two first names.",
">sometimes humanity just feels doomed for failure.\n\nI 100% concur. Maybe it's a getting older thing but the hope I had for our species is quickly being replaced with dreed for future generations. Our species is to selfish to care what happens to the next in line as long as we get what we want. Sadly I don't think we have the capability to change at this point...",
"Bruh I don’t know if you have a mental problem or something. But I’ve said what I said. That \nSpecific family are trash. Every single one of them In that family(specific one) not all. Just that one. The people are soulless cunts. End of story.",
"Have you ever been to a concert? People drop a lot from being dehydrated, on drugs, exhausted, or whatever. If an artist stopped every show after someone got carted away, many concerts would never finish to completion.",
"I don't understand how people can be so loyal to someone else even after all that.",
"I’d not heard of travis Scott before all this but he seems like a proper bellend.",
"It’s cuz he knows where the dead are going, it’s pointless trying to save them when they’re in their subjective heaven, they chose this, remember, their heaven only looks like hell to us because they’re below the concepts of the 4th dimension. But in all honesty, it’s what they wanted.",
"Speaking of OJ.\n\nDidn’t Kris Jenner take her new bf to watch the OJ trial? \n\nThe same OJ she had previously had relations with?\n\nAnd weren’t those relations during the time she was married to one of the men defending him in court? \n\nThis family been messy for decades.",
"You just made me snicker during a work meeting while my mic was on.",
"Hes such a peice of shit",
"Rappers these days all got god complexes, esp this dude and Kanye",
"https://youtube.com/shorts/jSyNNLz8ous?feature=share\n\nThats pretty much how it happened here. Except when the beat drops people in the vicinity are mostly freaking out still.",
"lmao, no, not calling u a 'mcbitch' lol wtf \n\n\nedit, i was just being funny",
"My wife was in an abusive relationship before we met and she's a huge fan of his. I can't wrap my head around it.",
"I think it goes:\n\nRich white people\n\n\\---- Rich non-white people\n\n\\-------- middle-class white people\n\n\\------------ middle-class non-white people\n\nSo because he is further up the hierarchy than the people who died nothing will happen to him. Now... If they were rich white people he would be properly fucked.",
"Oh look.........",
"Never trust the Cardassians.\n\n\\- Benjamin Sisko",
"Nuance on reddit, you love to see it",
"Who the fuck is Young thug? \nThis is literally the first time I've ever heard that name. \n\n\nEdit: This is a direct response to \"the comment about saying that Young thug and Travis sound the same\". \nThere is no comment where I mention that person. Me saying I don't even know who that person is a very relevant response. \n\n\nThe amount people who've taken this comment to mean all kinds of things is mental. Ranging from calling me a \"bragging dork\" (???) to a white supremacist. \n\n\nYou people are fucking insane.",
"His fans all seemed like mentally retarded meat heads. I've been in plenty of moshpits but the fans are always looking out for each other. In the videos of his concerts all the fans all seem like angry violent hoodrats.",
"Yeah, How TF did the person responsible for the venue did not just pull the plug?",
"Sickening",
"😎",
"Wow this is the most incriminating video I’ve seen",
"Travis Scott also didn't directly nearly beat someone to death. Dumb take, they're both horrid people who deserve to be in jail",
"I was teaching in an urban school then. I denounced him for it, and girls defended it, saying, \"But she gave him the burn!\" Utterly depressing.",
"Bill Crosby was still selling out shows up until his sentencing.\n\nR Kelly was still selling out shows up until his trial. Musicians, rappers and singers were still lining up to work with him.",
"I think it has a lot to do with the fact that he incited a lot of the chaos, ignored the signs and has conducted himself in a manner that has endangered a lot of people. It is of course the fault of the event organizers and such but to ignore the fact that he publicly incited people to jump the fence and has shown a record of disregard for safety, also puts him to blame for the incident.",
">He preformed at the superbowl. He had his own McDonald's meal, starting the current trend of celeb meals. I don't think he's any good but he's obviously popular.\n\nNot to mention all of the [Cactus Jack branded stuff](https://www.complex.com/music/travis-scott-not-fan-of-branding-or-marketing) and tie ins. When the guy is in partnership with Anheuser-Busch, it's really hard to claim he's obscure.",
"I know this joke is old as dirt but I still laugh every time.",
"What a bunch of sheep.",
"It's okay everyone. He and his babies mama apologized on their Instagram feed and they're famous. That makes it okay, right?",
"You saying that these rappers come and go every year says that u don’t listen to rap. Travis Scott is a HUGE Artist, same thing with young thug. If you listen to rap u definitely know the two. \n\nKnow this is going to hurt Travis for sure tho, a lot of people are gonna stop fucking with him but he’s not going to “disappear”.",
"Wow, he looks dumb AF.",
"Who is this guy? 😜",
"The Doordashians are insufferable.",
"I listen to to rap music in the UK, never heard of those two until Travis Scott with this. \nClearly not globally famous.",
"You guys have too high of hopes for this country",
"Woah there… who doesn’t like Marmite?",
"Cancel culture will destroy someone's career over some mean words said 12 years ago, but guys like Travis are safe even though they constantly do much worse things.",
"Sorry, I only listen to real rap!",
"Does he think his fellow black’s lives matter?",
"The music you listen to is shit, why do people like it?",
"Imagine being the paramedic trying to save someones life.",
"Youngest person who died was 14. There ain’t no parenting going on there…",
"His fans will continue to stan, hopefully he doesn't get a slap on the wrist..but he has Hella cash and influence..there's a huge sect of people saying he isn't responsible, leave him alone it was the crowds fault. Truth is this MFer had complete control over the crowd. \" ey ey ey, let's make way for that ambulance or the show won't continue!\" Is all it would've took.",
"I heard “Houston” and a dude named “Travis.” I was thinking “man I don’t know any country singers anymore”",
"This was the first I ever heard of him. I don't live in the US, but if he was actually all that, I'd have at least heard of him I think. From what I can see of him, he's an assclown that shouldn't be allowed to perform to live audiences because he doesn't give two fucks about them.",
"Are you ready to have your mind blown? Here it comes;\n\n# Different people like different things.",
"The fact that people are blaming this on him is insane",
"Honestly, I don't think he was telling the crowd to flip off the ambulance. He said, \"Put your middle finger to the sky.\" which is not unheard of at a concert.",
"That's called an opinion.",
"They’re delusional. They clearly hate the level of success he has and are desperately hoping this will take him down but it’s a stretch to blame Trav for this. The worst that will happen is that he may pay some settlements but besides that his career, finances, image won’t be seriously affected.",
"Hey... got any g.. grapes?",
"I hate mumble rap as much as the next guy but Travis Scott isn’t a mumble rapper at all.",
"Who are the big American rappers you’ve heard of over there?",
"“Cancel culture”, or at least the way I’ve heard the term used, refers to a public response, not legal. \n\nIn legal arena you’re guaranteed due process, reasonable doubt and all that because your freedom is on the line. \n\nCancel culture is a social response. It’s not always fair, but it’s just consequences for whatever the person did or is accused of doing. People have the right to speak their mind without going to jail for it. That does not absolve then of any social consequences of their choices. People who get fired for saying something controversial are getting fired because their employer feels that continuing to employ them will cost them customers. If you want that to end then you gotta change peoples minds about what is in bounds or not.\n\n I’m not going to pay to watch someone who says stupid harmful shit. There’s so much entertainment out there that I don’t have to. Apparently there’s many people who agree with that line of thinking. Until you change enough of those people’s minds entertainers who play stupid games will win stupid prizes",
"you mean the dudes that immediately stage dived into the deadly crowd? lol I think you might be mistaken",
"Scum",
"His fans are the ones who died. Why fuck them?",
"Due to how many posts are about Travis being a cunt on Reddit recently, I'm beginning to believe this is one of them hate-campaigns that have the intention to actually reignite someone's dwindling popularity among a new target audience through infamy, or maybe binge watching Inside Job did a number on my head and rational thinking suffered.",
"He also did the theme song for Tenet. A movie that left me just as confused as most of the music from Travis Scott.",
"Rihanna also went right back and continued her relationship with chris brown, which downplayed the whole situation",
"She wasn’t that much of a public figure. Before her disappearance she had less than 1k followers on instagram. I have more followers as a 30yr old male who doesn’t use it that much.",
"Thanks to the fine folks at the ACLU and their decades of work undermining justice in this country Scott can't be legally executed for this.",
"Oh my god.",
"Who is Travis Scott get back to work people",
"that footage is chilling",
"not a rapper but go off",
"The evidence is everywhere. He needs to be tried in court for negligent homicide.",
"Wow that’s the scariest video I’ve seen of it so far. The thought of being in there is terrifying",
"The show must go on",
"This dude kind of sucks",
"Doesn't seem like a lot is going on upstairs in Travis' brain.",
"I didn't know who he was till this news came out.",
"ITT: People who live under rocks\n\n​\n\nAlso ITT: Justifiable hatred for a peace of shit musician",
"To be fair, they may have no clue whats going on. It's tough to really follow whats happening at a packed concert outside of the stage and anything within 10 feet of you.",
"Fair points. For all we know, he was ~~queued~~ cued from off stage with bad info to go ahead and resume and that all was fine. \n\nDefinitely surprised there wasn't a kill switch for the show but then again, the general chaos makes it seem like no one really knew what was happening until it was too late.",
"Who the fuck is this guy and why does everyone keep talking about him",
"Why do you people keep rewarding the worst shitheads with huge waves of attention? That's why people keep making public asses of themselves.",
"Yeah as a sign of defiance and disrespect to authority. This was not the time to do it. You even hear a few people in the crowd going “No don’t do that.”",
"yeah... I thought that was weird asf, but he has his fans jump from the the stage into fans before\n\nI just hope the investigators and lawyers try and figure out what was said to him at that moment. They had their phones out as if they were trying to show him something",
"I looked it up, is it just a big mac meal with 4 chicken nuggets?",
"Fucking disgusting",
"The show must go on.",
"It really was just incredibly stupid to host a festival in this format right now anyway.\n\nLike, even if you ignore the fact that AINT NO COVID OVER YET, people have spent the last year and a half completely unlearning how to properly act in crowds. You gotta ease society back into this shit. Definitely not just straight up host a 50k GENERAL ADMISSION festival.",
"listening to half a song and then claiming his music is trash is a bit funny. i don’t like the guy after this but songs like 90210 display his talent and rodeo is a sensational album",
"Now that we know you like it, tell us what it is.",
"26th most streamed artist on Spotify globally lmao",
"His music pretty dope tho",
"I see a girl trying to fix another girls shirt, what sexual assault?",
"If you believe this witch hunt, surely. \n\nYou honestly choose \"he likes his teenage fans getting killed\" over \"he most not have been aware what was transpiring in the dark with all that noise\" as the assumption to explain what happened?",
"He was definitely encouraging fans to behave irresponsibly so by all means he deserves some of the blame, but yeah, someone in another thread said it best, a lot of redditors are using this tragedy to push their anti-rap agenda and it's pretty sad. They brigade against Travis for his part in allowing this tragedy to happen and yet they make jokes About how his auto tune crooning must be what his fans sounded like when they died... Honestly really distasteful joke.",
"Lmao what? Travis in the game for years now, even featured on Kanye’s latest album",
"Because the parents are probably stupid children themselves. But yeah, let’s ban abortion!",
"Yeah, this exactly.\n\nI don't know the full story behind what happened there, but it seems like a lot of people on reddit have never been to a concert before.\n\nAll thats really clear is at the very beginning he is like \"...ambulance\" and there is a long pause where he asks others whats up.\n\nIt could very well be that the other people he asked were like \"its fine\".\n\nIt's just not clear from this video what he really knew and when.",
"Take his shoe and you’ll feel his righteous wrath!",
"Christ that’s sick",
"I can't wait to see what the next title is gonna say, it just gets gradually worse. \n\nTravis Scott trepans a puppy. \nTravis Scott squeezes the life energy from a leukaemia patient.",
"Probably because of this...",
"I see you are very knowledgeable to put two very different persons, one who is just recovering from a devastating maniacal period that cost him his carreer and his marriage and this dude, on par. Its easy to scream anonymous isnt.",
"Soon all footage from this event will be shadow banned and probably near illegal. Better make private copies of theae",
"ever heard his lyrics? lmao",
"We should be discussing how subpar the safety and security measurements at events with high attendances are and how they can be improved since this is not the first time something like this happened...but nope WE HAVE TO STOP THAT EVIL RAP MUSIC THAT IS DESTROYING THE MINDS OF YOUNG PEOPLE!!1!!!1!!1!!!1\n\n\nReddit turning this tragedy into a culture war of holy precious rock music vs that evil rap music is peak reddit.",
"*trashy scott",
"He looks like hes fucked up on drugs, unaware of whats even fucking happening",
"dude is such a piece of shit",
"The autotune style rap isn't as big outside of America. I personally think it all sounds the same too and I like rap, just not the autotune singy crap and mumble rap.",
"I listen to rap too but I don't necessarily follow every new upcoming rapper. If they sound like shit ( alot of newer rappers do) I just forget their name. I don't forget rappers like Jcole, Kendrick, and Logic for instance. They are considered newish compared to what I truly like. Ice Cube, Public Enemy, Wu Tang, Tupac, Nas, etc the list could go on. I feel like these rappers though are immortal.",
"Its not really clear what those dudes told him to be fair. You can see him say something \"... ambulance\" at the beginning. And then he looks around confused for a bit and confers with those dudes. It might be that he couldnt see anything wrong and then they told him everything was fine.\n\nI mean, its hard to tell either way at this point.",
"Do you really? Because there is a very simpe and yet to be proven false, very reasonable explanation: the guy was not able to canvas the whole crowd of 40.000 people in the dark.",
"I mean name one possible situation where an ambulance is driving through the crowed and something isn't wrong ??",
"I'm not a fan of Travis Scott, but it's undeniable he's been extremely successful for over half a decade now. On the 2015 song that made him mainstream, he's got almost 400 million youtube views. Also considering the size difference of our countries, a big American rapper is probably going to be way more well known than a big UK rapper. \n\nI only listen to rap nowadays (I prefer the older stuff tbh) and the only UK rapper I know of is that girl whose song turned into a tiktok meme.",
"I didn’t see anyone sexually assault anyone because it was so shakey, when did that happen?",
"He's on stupidity.",
"He has in-ears. The person on his staff who handles his monitors was probably telling him what was going on. They have a mic to talk to anyone on stage wearing in-ears. Even lower level artists/teams could’ve told him to shut this down in 2 min.",
"Thank the lord. That rap is serious garbage",
"Ghostface killah is my favourite rapper of all time!",
"For some odd reason music artists seem to be immune to repercussions from abhorrent behavior. Elvis presley meet Priscilla when she was 14 years old. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over their parental rights to him so he could take her across state lines. Vince Neil killed a friend in a drunk driving accident and didn't even go to jail. R. Kelly needed multiple videos to get arrested and he would probably still sell out a show if he played one. \n\nI have no idea why but outside of going to jail, musicians will almost always get by. Jerry Lee Lewis is the only one i can think of whose career was ended due to his behavior. Although he also might have been the only one who didn't deny his actions.",
"No way he goes to prison, unfortunately.",
"Kendrick, Jcole, and then your usual Eminem, Tupac, Jay Z etc.",
"He has been one of the biggest names in rap since 2016",
"Dude was inciting the crowd. I watched a video yesterday of him staring at a patient who was having chest compressions performed on him whilst singing into his shitty auto tune “yeAeAeAAeeah.” Dude this shit is un-excusable. He should have just stopped for 5 minutes. And if he didn’t know what was going on surely somebody on his team or an employee of the venue should have and shut this shit down .",
"What kind of shitty parent is bringing their 10 year old to this chaos?",
"No yeah I definitely agree that he fucked up by encouraging his fans to \"rage\" it's just annoying to see people calling for his death and making jokes Abt his fans dying... Like these people demonize him for having fans die at his show and yet you call for more death? Hypocrites",
"Well, there's a certain kind of person that likes this asshole enough to shell out cash to go to his shitty festival...",
"This needs to be confirmed. \n\nNo one has stated that any stage hands where told. All reports tell of medical staff in utter disbelief and shock.",
"Yuppppppp",
"People see what they choose to see.",
"He supports “the rage” he’s encouraged fans to do incredibly risky shit including literally word for word told a kid to jump off a balcony “they’ll catch you” the crowd didn’t catch him and the kid broke a leg. \n\nSo- how is this not partly his fault huh",
"You're right, thought it was a guy groping her, gonna delete comment. Thanks.",
"GREEN DAY has done this at two shows I have been at personally. If you are a regular concert goer, you know and respect the POWER the performers have over the crowd. \n\nI have seen the lead singer raise half a stadium of people with the flick of his pinky finger. If you are a performer and don’t respect this power by controlling your shows, you are an ignorant asshole and should not be on that stage. Heavy is the head that wears the crown, this joker played his fans for fools, now they see the emperor has no clothes. \n\nNo prayers will bring back the dead. They died in hell.",
"Travis clearly has stuff to worry about now. He’s gotten away with it twice.",
"I agree with you, but it’s a complete unknown. Unless I was told otherwise my job would be to keep the crowed focused on me so the paramedics could do their job.",
"I would pay good money to not have to go to there.",
"I'm more a fan of\n\nLil Windex",
"Saddest part of all this is that this awful event probably won’t stop another 50,000 people from buying tickets to watch this clown jump around on stage",
"lol Logic",
"> But it seems unrealistic to expect performers to be aware of what is happening while they perform at all times and to be experts at crowd control.\n\nIt seems the bands that have had this happen at one of their previous shows have somehow become experts. They kill that shit hard stop now. There was a post just yesterday about this.",
"Stupid fuck",
"can we please stop making retarded people celebrities?",
"You’re telling me someone at his level doesn’t even have his own mildly competent security? Even from a personal standpoint, that was a terribly dangerous situation for the artist/crew. Fans could’ve World War Z that shit. Someone like him would have at least 2 of his own security. \n\nSecurity A would typically be in the pit watching. They see crowd moving in crazy and it getting out of hand. Radio over to Security B who is on stage. Security B tells monitors person to communicate it to Trav and shut it down. \n\n2 min.",
"“Wah, this ambulance is interrupting my concert, and that’s, like, so INCONVENIENT!! Everyone, put up your middle finger!!!”",
"Hardly even gonna take a hit unless companies start dropping him.",
"Nah people didn't die at his concert for a reverse PR campaign. Like what are you talking about",
"Which artists are you watching?\n\nHands up in the air? Sure. But middle fingers?",
"...the fuck is this?",
"The same concert his little kid was at. People asking why kids were allowed there and blaming the parents, but his own kid was there too and he is telling people to do dumb shit like this. Ugh.",
"It's the fact that he sees the ambulance, and he continues doesn't stop the concert. \n\n\nDoesn't tell his fans to make way and move out of the way so that the ambulance can get through and the paramedics can do their job. \n\n\nThis video is evidence without a shred of doubt that Travis is fully in the wrong with what happened at Astroworld.",
"Man if any person needed to be canceled it’s this guy.",
"I hope all these videos are being shared on his subreddit.",
">I don't doubt for a moment that Travis Scott is a genuine shithead who should have behaved in a 100% different way than he should have. But it seems unrealistic to expect performers to be aware of what is happening while they perform at all times and to be experts at crowd control.\n\nScott, Live Nation, and Huston P.D. are all responsible in my opinion.",
"I was working medical at a festival and we had these small gators fully rigged out with lights and sirens. Had one medical call that was in the middle of the plaza, and while attempting to drive out there we constantly just had people stand in front of us and ask where they were supposed to go. I was like, someone could literally be dying right now and you're just being an asshole. As annoying as that situation was, I couldn't imagine driving a full rig through a crowd after the performer basically gave everyone permission to fuck with you. Nightmare scenario right there.",
"Two staff did try to tell him and he told them to fuck off. He didn't want to hear what they had to say..",
"What is that dogshit song he played afterwards?🤣 jesus...people came to see/hear THAT?",
"w take",
"Wow fuck Travis Scott obv\n\nBut the audience who joined in, I'm giving you a massive British face of disappointment",
">Chris Brown nearly beat Rihanna to death\n\nYes he beat her. Yes it was completely fucked up. But she was not near death.",
"Yes he can be blamed for encouraging the crowd to go over the top, but the difference between this concert and the hundreds of others he’s done is that people died at this one, due to the promoters cutting corners and not supplying a properly trained medical staff and allowing a crowd size too large. I would say a small percentage of the blame goes to Travis, but the hate Right now is extremely overblown. Sue the fucking promoters.",
"And putting your middle finger up... but for a different reason....",
"It's more about crowed control than anything. Those paramedics can't do their job when people are in their way. They certainly can't when the music is blading full volume.",
">Cued",
"I agree. It's not hard for me to believe he is a barely functioning narcissist who was not aware of what was happening right in front of him, but it's HIS festival. It was his or at least his teams responsibility to maintain a safe show and they failed to do that. On a personal level he has a history of inciting violent and disorderly conduct at his show. I can't fault him for not know what was happening and for sure someone else should have stepped in, but here is a dude who left and fired his manager when he had a seizure... humiliated and kicked a videographer offstage because he was a \"nerd\". Due to his own past conduct it seems he has fostered a hostile environment in which no one WOULD overrule him to end the concert.",
"And you forget reddit is an international site with people from all over the world. I didnt know who Scott is before this and will probably forget him afterwards.",
"Why are there people that give value to this fucking garbage and need something like this to happen to realize it. I mean, can't you see he is a fucking trash artist just by the way he screams in the mic? There's \"art\" in that? Wake the fuck up sheeple.",
"Couple things here... Not defending this dude. I’ve been in my fair share of gnarly pits and have personally picked up an unconscious man that the crowd was standing on. \n\n1. This dude has no clue what to do in this situation. Probably never even come close to experiencing it before.\n\n2. He’s got IEM to the mix and board, couldn’t staff, crew, sound stage, anyone literally just tell him in his ears “hey hold the fuck up” this seems like a fuck up from all parties directly involved don’t you think?",
"Me too. And I even tried to give the benefit of doubt thinking \"maybe if their hands are up they can't push and make a swarm of dominoes...\" Nope:(",
"His shitty demeanor aside, i legit don’t understand why ppl like seeing him live? He just yells into the mic and often times not even the lyrics\n\nPeople hate on EDM shows cause “no live element” but at least you don’t have to hear a dude yelling at you (unless you’re seeing Slander or yellowClaw lol)",
"I understand how crowds work, I’m just saying that being in a crowd doesn’t absolve someone of personal responsibility.",
"Do we know if this is true though? We just have this video.",
"Just like that Rainbow kid. HUGE artist. Made blah blah blah millions so fast. Couldnt get his stupid face off my screen for like a year. annnnnd hes gone.",
"Sorry, it's not music.",
"That is simply not true... Rappers like Travis Scott are big in Europe too and the rest of the world... I'm from Denmark and he is huge here and was one of the headliners of the biggest music festival in Scandinavia. Just because you don't know him, doesn't mean he isn't big. Not trying to defend him, just stating facts.",
"And then he started the music..",
"Nowhere did he say to flip off the ambulance. We can agree he’s a human piece of garbage while also not being disingenuous about what happened.",
"Being streamed globally doesn’t make you a good artist or rapper tbh.",
"Fucking disgusting those guys just grabbing that poor defenseless girls chest. If someone did that to my wife, i would be devastated for not being able to protect her",
"I totally agree and that’s why there needs to be a review instead of everyone just vilifying him directly.",
" If you were wondering how Hitler got to power, this right here should tell you everything. The great majority of people out there can't think for themselves and will do everything they're told.",
"This clip alone isn't that bad yeah. But it's the fact that the medical emergency went on for so long and the music just kept going. Most of the concerts I go to will have several people pass out. But I've never seen anything at this scale. There's clips from the EMS perspective where they're carrying away body after body, in clear view of the stage, and still the show goes on. People are crowd surfing unconscious bodies over the crowd because EMS can't get through. It's fucking crazy. \n\nWe don't know what info Travis was getting in his ear. Maybe a producer was reassuring him that it's all fine. Maybe Travis ignored some warning. We don't know those details. But someone *clearly* fucked up in a massive way. And that half-assed \"apology\" video posted yesterday or the day before really doesn't help the situation with how incredibly tone deaf it was. Whatever happened I just hope his future concerts are better prepared to deal with a situation like this.",
"Lee Harvey? John Wayne? James Earl? Nah...",
"Lock him up",
"That is so disturbing. I feel so bad for them.",
"there are tons of videos of people trying to tell security/producers that shit was going wrong and that the show needed to stop and they refused. You can be mad at Travis for not understanding the gravity of the situation and continuing to perform, but there's a team for a reason, so that they can fill him in when shits happening, and they failed their job.",
"He's a totally different person in his music and that's the only version of him they know. They don't understand that he's just making that shit up or it's written by someone else.",
"Beats me...",
"Fuck every -10 brain cells retarded motherfucker who still listens to his mediocre shit music and supports this absolut piece of human garbage",
"Polar opposite of the recent incident Mark Rebillet show.",
"It's like the Battle of the Bastards in Game of Thrones but worse.",
"Not sure why you are getting downvoted. \n\nI do not really know who \"Robyn F\" and \"Brown\" is either.",
"his music is bang average, even though he’s one of gen z’s favorite artists. he’s also a piece of shit and part of the kardashian crap.",
"You're married to a fuckhead.",
"I hope his career burns.",
"Little from column A, little from column B",
"The middle finge wasn’t for the ambulance, dumb ass",
"But its clear two people do come and confront him and he waves it off and then doubles down on middle fingers in the air before starting a song a few seconds later. I mean only 3 ppl died at Woodstock over many days... this was 8+ in a couple hours, something WAS wrong. Plus there have been many instances where an artist interrupts a show to ensure an ambulance or medics can address a casualty. Its not unheard of, and requires zero \"training\" to look out for others. (Not his MO, but actions, and sometimes inactions, have consequences)\n\nI accept your defense of TS if he truly did not know (possible, not probable), but completely reject your claim that it takes training to recognize someone in distress or an ongoing emergency.",
"How is this not a crime?",
"*shrugs.",
"bob ross and fred rogers are exceptions",
"Good catch ;-)",
"I think they are just doing grab bag insults now",
"Wonder what Nike has to say about this",
">The autotune style rap isn't as big outside of America.\n\nI'm not sure about that. I've been getting into German rap recently and if anything they're waaay more flagrant with autotune than US rap (currently) is.",
"Honestly, if you’re being crushed and fighting to get back up I think you would just start flailing your arms and grabbing onto whatever you could. \n\nI’m not sure the person was trying to sexually assault her, I think they were just panicking",
"I live in the US. Only time I've heard his name was the McDonalds promotion. I had/ still have no clue who he is. I wouldnt have remembered he was one of McDonalds lame attempts to be hip until this thread reminded me. I assume his face is covered in tats, he sips lean, has incredibly heavy beats while he slurs nursery rhymes over them, has 9 number 1 songs on some billboard chart and has a 75% overdose chance.",
"Care to link the video where he is \"inciting the crowd\" like you say?\n\nBecause those videos have somehow not been shown.\n\nYou do realize that the police was the hired security, right? Somehow they dont get any blame for not shutting it down, so strange, care to give your opinion on that? :P",
"How isn’t it? Like it or not, but Travis’ is a musical prodigy which is why Kanye recruited him. If you can look past the autotune voice, there is a lot of interesting musical choices in his his songs. And I am a sucker for some good electric guitar",
"If you believe he has a loyalty to anything other than himself and his bank account then, well, good on you for being optimistic.",
"Lets not forget he tries to act like a hard motherfucker when the guy grew up with money.",
"I have performed on stages before.\n\n​\n\nIf you think the person holding the mic and controlling the energy of the room, has a great view of what is going on and is the PROMOTER as well doesn't have any responsibility then you're nuts or a paid shill. period.",
"This is different. Rihanna was personal, this sets up a risk to the business. Venues can't have a shithead who will get people killed, the venue is responsible too.",
"You may be right. I just remember seeing hands clearly on her breasts specifically and the vid is so unsettling i don’t want to fact check",
"he's a terrible Autotune rapper",
"The worst instagram has to offer",
"You mean the crowd crush, or the 12-year-old entitled mentality of the shithead on stage?",
"You don't understand, it's cool not to like someone popular.\n\nThat being said, he's a psycho and I hope no one ever wants to let him play their venue.",
"Must be nice to just shrug it off every time you’re wrong and double down on your ignorance, enjoy your bubble you live in that you think defines the world. Lmao",
"Looks at ambulance\n\nComments on ambulance\n\nThinks for a bit \n\nTells audience to put their middle fingers up while staring dead at the ambulance. \n\nAt concerts such as this putting your middle finger in the air is directed as a sign of rebellion against the system or authority in general. There was nothing else there signifying any kind of establishment and the crowd starts booing as the image of the ambulance is shown on the screen. Rather than telling them not to boo or make some space he decides to make their jobs even harder and starts up a new song to “rage” to. He 100% turned the crowd on the ambulances as you can see in other videos of people purposefully holding back the ambulances and climbing on top of them. \n\nHe looked out saw a situation he could’ve made better and actively chose to make it worse.",
"The problem is that people who have narcissistic tendencies usually believe they are the smartest people in the room/stadium/world.",
"I hope he dies as tragically as those fans",
"I didn't know who he was until my kids were watching his virtual concert on Fortnite. I was like why are they having a rap concert in a battle royale video game for kids",
"Looks like January 6 footage",
"...Why would anyone go to a concert like this? thats the part im not understanding like who says \"hey lets go to a really violent place to risk getting trampled!\"",
"He is such a piece of shit",
"This has got to be criminal",
"As far as understatements go, this is on par with \"The ocean is slightly moist\" \n\n\nEdit: Random quote is random",
"I might b wrong but I thought someone was helping her cover up.",
"...what did I just watch? As someone who always says \"I hope everyone's alive\" when I see an ambulance, this is... disgusting.",
"you are literally racist",
"This is Reddit where “real rap” is only nf, Eminem, logic and Joyner Lucas",
"Dumb and talented aren’t mutually exclusive. Floyd Mayweather can’t even read and he’s one of the highest paid athletes of all time.",
"His material is massively influential and was responsible for a big shift toward more psychedelic sounds in rap. His notoriety came from being a top tier producer and performer. Unfortunate that he turned out to not care about his own fans dying but I'm fucking tired of seeing his musical achievements downplayed so heavily.",
"I’m not even a TS fan. \n\nThere 100% needs to be a full on review",
"this and the mcdonalds meal are the only two reasons i even know this dude's name",
"It's funny because some random guy in the audience knew he fucked up @ 0:38 \"Naw, don't do that bro.\"",
"Bullshit. He actively encourages his fans to bust down gates and break into his shows. He knows how security works. He knew damn well they would be overloaded. He’s seen the videos of people rushing into his shows. There’s a freaking Netflix documentary showing it clearly with him encouraging them the entire time. He wanted a bunch of people going crazy and he got it.",
"https://youtu.be/U2f4W8ZuYr8?t=91",
"Work on reading comprehension. It's a useful skill.",
"those cancel culture people seem kinda quiet right now. hmm",
"Travis Scott has been killin it since about 2012-2014 and has billions of streams. Hate to disappoint you but he won’t be forgotten in a year. He will probably be even more popular in a year tbh",
"Spotify doesn't account for the entire population there bud.",
"He legit looks like he struggles to make two brain cells collide",
"I don't use this word ever but what a cunt this guy is.",
"There are not many guys like him tho, that's the thing. His influence is above almost any name you would throw out to relate him to.",
"No, he's just really smart.",
"I go to a lot of death metal concerts where the moshing is absolutely insane and ultra aggressive, but there is a difference: Metalheads have a certain type of culture and we actually take pride in our ability to get rough for the fun of it while also protecting each other when things get dangerous. It's about respect.\n\nI've been knocked to the ground so many times and I'm serious when I say this, but I've not once had the time to pick myself up off the ground because before I can, a group of people have circled around to protect me and pick me up. I laugh because it almost always goes like this : People pick you up, you make eye contact...they go \"you okay?!\" you say \"yes!\" then you all immediately shove each other back into other people.\n\nMy friend ran a venue for nearly a decade and once told me he always loved metal shows because people always had good positive energy no matter how rough it got, but every rap show he had would end up with fights or some sort of beef going on.",
"It looked like another girl trying to help cover her up.",
"What live performances have you seen where 8 people die after the headliner tells people to rush the stage? I've seen plenty of live performances, something like that has _never_ happened. He directly encouraged people to push and rush the stage, and crush and suffucate 8 others to death.\n\nIt's funny how Metallica can perform with over 3,000,000 people and not have 8 deaths occur, but yeah nothing to do with Travis and his crowd of 50,000.",
"He shouldn't need someone smart enough working for him. It should be standard practice for the venue to cut the equipment when this happens. Take the response out of the hands of performers who we've seen act irrationally again and again and put it into the hands of the people who have a duty of care.",
"That definitely proves how “absolutely devastated” he is.",
"Before this he was known for having the most fun and energetic concerts. It's very similar to edm actually, you are there for the energy not to hear the music be performed necessarily.",
"Y'know, I started to watch the video and then I remembered my regret after watching The Station fire video so I came back here. I know what happened here. I don't need it tattooed on my soul.",
"He's likely got a mic in his ear listening to some staff brief him on the situation and whether or not he should end the concert. He's trying to figure out what is going on. The internet hate train has already started so there is no stopping it now. I think Travis was absurdly ignorant, stupid, and irresponsible. But blaming him alone is fucking moronic. It's the responsibility of the staff to inform him when shit's bad. He can't see everything from up there, especially with bright ass lights in his eyes and the majority of the crowd giving him nothing but positive feedback. This was a failure of communication and organization on so many levels",
"It's that \"don't give a fuck about anything\" attitude that is tearing this world apart. \n\nImagine all the greatness we could have if actually caring was cool.",
"Can we please just shit his whole career down? Will probably never happen but….idk",
"I know it wasn’t, it was a follow on.",
"DAE LE ENLIGHTENED CLASSIC RAWK FAN!??!?!?! NONE OF THIS (C)RAP MUSIC !!11!!",
"If it was just the recent incident, I’d be willing to accept that. The problem is all these videos coming out showing multiple instances of him calling for violence, inciting riots, and treating people like shit. He’s clearly a garbage human being who doesn’t give a fuck about anyone other than himself, and to defend that shit, is pretty garbage as well.",
"There's also videos of Ted Bundy NOT murdering people. Seriously though, there are families out there that woke up this morning missing someone important in their lives and they don't give a damn about how he acted at other shows. Neither should we.",
"I completely forgot about affluenza kid and him running away to Mexico with his mom (it always seemed like a weird incestuous relationship)",
"He was catapulted to his status for his musical mind, not his problem solving one.",
"yeah cuz redditors are generally the weirdos in the back. they aren't rational.",
"Ngl he’s a terrible person but the amount of racism that has been seen across reddit because of this event is insane. The tragedy had nothing to do with race or the type of music yet it keeps getting brought up in these threads.",
"By “witch-hunt” do you mean all the videos people are posting of him being a gigantic piece of shit?",
"Damn, this is pretty fuckin whack. \n\nImagine paying money to see this guy, and when you have a medical emergency of some sort, he just doesn't give a shit. *After* hes already taken your money. \n\nYikes.",
"My girlfriend and I got into the biggest fight we've had in months over this. She is 100% convinced Travis knew his fans were dying and continued the show \"to make money\". I think he fucked up, monumentally, but more out of ignorance, stupidity, and poor communication - not some malicious intent or inherent evilness. There are so many failures that led to this. You cannot blame just one person.",
"Sure, and good for them and fuck this guy. I think the point is that the ability to stop a show for safety shouldn’t only reside on the artist. There should be safety protocol that doesn’t allow for a shitbird like this to do this.",
"I wonder if it would sink in to people like that to ask, \"what if happened to you? Would it be okay for someone 'mad cute' to beat you up?\"\n\nI might also have sent a note home to her parents. Unless you're pretty sure the parents are where she got ideas like that.",
"A lot of people in r/TravisScott are still fawning over him. Plenty aren’t, but a whole lot are",
"I’m not a sue happy type of person but I really hope the victims family sue the ever living hell out of this Travis guy for not complying with EMT or trying to control the crowd.",
"r/fucktravisscott",
"How the actual fuck do you make a link to Hitler from what has happened here?! \n\nBizarre comment",
"His name, his act, and the reason people keep talking about him is right there. Watch it fs",
"9 people died at a Pearl Jam concert but no one is calling for Eddie Vedder to be locked up or killed",
"Robyn F = Rihanna\n\nBrown = Chris Brown",
"\"Uh Uh Yeah yeah.... 90210 90210 uh uh yeah yeah\" Are you fucking serious? He is utterly talentless. The algorithms in smart phones are the only reason smoothbrains listen to that shit.",
"I would say your dumb ass hasn't been to a live show if you think this is how emergencies are handled. Been to hundreds of concerts and not once have I seen the performer act like this during the actual emergency. Get a grip. PLENTY of evidence out there this guy is trash and treats people like trash.",
">That’s like when my son thought “England” was a guy.\n\nWhen everyone knows that England is a city.. right!",
"My favorite part of this story being big on reddit is all the people with an incredibly closed mind when it comes to music. They havent paid attention to modern music in any capacity for the past 5 or more years and think a dude using auto tune means he is an idiot who makes shit music.",
"Is there any chance this fucking idiot gets charged for criminal negligence or something like that?",
"As someone who works in live music, this is such a heartbreaking shitshow. So many chances missed to stop the show.\n\nSeems like no one wanted to take the responsibility for stopping the show incase it hurt their careers.\n\nWonder how they feel about that decision today.",
"I’m a massive hip hop fan and won’t go out of my way to shit on a certain sub-group, but yeah Travis Scott’s fan base has always been 14 year olds who yell at their mom. [I remember when Travis had to do a freestyle Cypher for the 2013 BET Hip Hop Awards where he’s actually gotta spit bars and failed horribly lol](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x164hjp)",
"He'll get his. Either by the justice system, Karmic law or Cancer.",
"An idiot making shitty music. How original. Clown!",
"[ **Jump to 00:38 @** Referenced Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZwoR4QWFMs&t=0h0m38s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: RapJunkiezTV, Video Popularity: 83.29%, Video Length: [02:52])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@00:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZwoR4QWFMs&t=0h0m33s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"You misspelled \"horrible cunt\"",
"Were you living under a rock the last 5 years then? Dude was one of the most marketable hip hop artists and had huge appeal to kids because of the Fortnite event he did. And he had a huge McDonald's promo too. Before this he had a pretty clean rep, I'd rank him 2nd behind Drake honestly in terms of overall popularity and marketability.",
"Piece of shit",
"His mouth was even hanging open while he tried to process lol",
"This is terrifying and heartbreaking - holy shit",
"Seriously fuck anyone that cares more about saying his music is shit than they do about the victims.",
"old man yells at cloud",
"How hard is it to comprehend that in a lot of modern rap the actual lyrical content is irrelevant? Just like edm",
"Why are you on reddit during a work meeting?",
"Besides, if you getting fucking trampled and struggling to move or breath, are you really going to use that as an opportunity to grab someone’s boobs?",
"What a piece of shit.",
"seen some other clip where he says \"Who told me to stop\"",
"However, this is America. They elected Trump for President.",
"It doesn't matter what his accomplishments are when he's a piece of shit. \n\nGood for him, he knows music. Still a piece of shit. His knowing music is meaningless in the face of the dead lives he's responsible for for inciting a riot and getting people crushed to death. \n\nHis accomplishments can get shoved up his ass.",
"You are the first person I've seen all day mention race.",
"That’s a fantastic personal interpretation of what you saw and some good assertions, assumptions, and inferences from that personal perspective. However, as it’s a personal interpretation and assertion it’s apt to also be biased and wrong. I prefer to stick to the facts when representing events and keep my personal assumptions to myself unless asked for them or preface them as such. The fact is that he did not tell anyone to flip off an ambulance or rebel against the medical authority in that moment. It is your opinion that he did. You may be right. But to represent your opinion as fact is disingenuous.",
"Calling victims *fuckheads* has not been a good solution so far.\n\nSadly those are the dynamics of an abusive relationship. And that's why it's so hard for some people to get out of them.",
"Where did I say I blamed him alone? Relax. I didn’t say much of anything.",
"And I'm guessing the vast majority of the people that close to the stage are in some way intoxicated.",
"Three people died at an Aoki concert in Madrid and it didn’t really change his act at all.\n\nThere’s a famous video of a girl getting a cake thrown at her by Aoki at Ultra. I was in the crowd next to that girl and experienced the crush of the crowd. It was especially bad when he got in his inflatable raft. It’s a miracle no one was hurt.",
"Holy shit.",
"Is this dude not wearing monitors in his ears? Where the fuck were the people telling him to stop that were running the event? Or was he just ignoring them?",
"As crazy as this sounds, it works to a certain extent. The only time I have been any where near this level of crowd crush was at Chicago Open air during system of down. I got up to like the 2nd row. You can stuff you arms down and push off the person in front of you to create a gap and get some air. Idk how to describe it, but there's a way to do it, and even give some space to the person in front of you. However I will say the crowd crush can get so insane that there is no stopping it. Its also exhausting and the amount of body heat is absurd. I very easily understand how people got so sick. The second you lift your arms in the air though you get smashed in like a sardine. \n\n\nWhile I think Travis Scott has a part to play in all this. I think it relies on the staff and organizers as well. Security at all the shows I go to knows to start pulling people from the crowd if they are getting sick. I see it all the time and I have been to over 100 metal shows at this point. If someone wants over the gate if they aren't feeling well, they almost always get pulled over to either go to the hospitality tent, or circle back to the less dense area.",
">The great majority of people out there can't think for themselves and will do everything they're told.\n\nDid you miss this part?",
"It’s the interpretation that op and 99% of the people on this thread are seeing. You’re blind",
"Total piece of shit.",
"She mah best friend, she a real bad bitch... That song is hella fun",
"That and apparently they changed their agreements with the performers where if they stop performing they don't get paid. And someone else mentioned that it was being live streamed on Apple which is another reason he wouldn't stop performing.",
"Dude.... Srsly his \"archivements\" are worth nothing if he keeps beeing such an idiot...\n\n He doesn't have to be an ultra nice guy or what ever...simply beeing aware of what your words could change in critical situations would be enough.\n\nAsk rkelly if his Musik and influence on the scene is worth what it was 10 years ago... TS isnt 100% responsible for the tragedys but he Def. Could have tryed to make the situations better in several ways. HE decided to do nothing. If I like his Musik or not is irrelevant at that point - I hope he goes to jail for that shit.",
"Ya that's fine, don't bring up your opinions about his music then. It's so irrelevant and I know if he made music that people don't love to hate as much as trap music the reaction to this whole event would be very different. I get a lot of subtly racist \"this isn't REAL music\" vibes from a lot of these comments and as someone with a general passion for music it frustrates me. \n\n(also using you here indirectly, I have no clue if you have used your opinion of his music when talking about this before)",
"He saw lights and perhaps thought its a police /s",
"It's great. Feels quite nice.",
"What if I have paid attention to \"modern\" music for 5 or more years and think a dude using auto tune means he's an idiot who makes shit music? Am I entitled to my opinion?",
"When you get crowd densities that high they literally have nowhere to go. That's why it should have been shut down. People get crushed to death from crowd pressure and everybody close enough to tell something is wrong has no control over it. Like legitimately these people can not move out of the way to actually save their own life while being asphyxiated. How are they supposed to move to make way for medical personnel? Crowd control has to start a lot further away.",
"I can't remember the last time Chris Brown had a hit on the radio. I think he is still popular with the hip hip crowd but I don't think mainstream is AS accepting of him anymore. His songs barely charts for more than 3 weeks even though his albums go platinum.\n\nI remember pre-Rhianna beating, he was everywhere - I couldn't even watch a show without hearing \"Forever\" playing on the Doublemint gum commercial. Does he even have any endorsement deals in the last decade?",
"I ordered that Kpop group's meal using the app. I just want to try the sauces because they sounded delicious. It was a chili flavor and a garlic flavor, I forget the specifics. I think I got it twice, actually.",
"I have been to shows where you can get sardine'd into an area. You have absolutely no control at that point, you go with the flow of the crowd whether you like it or not.",
"The worst part is that the people just blindly follow whatever he has to say, they're not thinking with their head, but his.",
"Whats sick is this is going to help his career. People just as shitty as him will flock to his shows for the clout of \"surviving the show\" and how hard and badass they are",
"A five second search would answer your question and probably tell you without clicking a link or video how big both of these guys are. I don’t listen to either of them but they’re huge mainstream rappers. Travis Scott is awful but if a Kardashian can run someone over and get off scot free some gross criminal negligence is not going to make Travis Scott fall off the face of the earth in a year, as much as I wish he would",
"Good little cult members.",
"I also think that it's worth noting that his business manager who was behind this whole fiasco happens to be Lou M. Taylor, who was also responsible for putting Brittany Spears in a conservatorship. https://mobile.twitter.com/monalisaney81/status/1457024102041014273",
"Until recently I was though he was Travis Baker from Blink-182. The first few video had me very confused.",
">mumble rapper\n\nTell me you've never listened to Travis Scott without telling me you've never listened to Travis Scott",
"I can't really hear anything through that horrible autotune, tbh",
"That’s cuz you are out of touch with popular culture/rap music. People keep saying this like it’s a burn to Travis.",
"Ahh good call, yeah that’s very disappointing since Live Nation runs so many events, you would think they’d have their shit together to respond to this sort of thing. They’re going to lose a lot of money and I hope it results in better safety protocols",
"It’s auto tuned shit. Like cool if you like it but it’s actually shit and he is a shit human.",
"I didn't even know who Travis Scott was before all this and he seems like gigantic piece of shit.",
">yet society didn't care she was the victim of abuse.\n\nDecent society, Black or not, cares. His fanbase, Black or not, and largely female, doesn't.",
"You are entitled to think the music isn't good. Thinking a dude using auto tune means he is an idiot is purely uneducated and is not a valid opinion. Also shows a lack of understanding of the genre and the role vocals play in general.",
"'member when Wendy Williams asked her audience to congratulate him on the success of his new album, because he \"worked it out\" in the studio, is \"misunderstood\" and \"has gone through a lot\", and all of the women in the audience applauded?",
"What about him looks like a terrible person? Would love for you to elaborate on this.",
"ashley simpson career when downhills after her SNL fiasco. She might be a shitty singer but she wasn't a bad human being. I hope this kids get fucked.",
"I guess anecdotal evidence is just better huh",
"Speaking of too soon has Anthony Jeselnik weighed in? BRB",
"I don’t think you know what good music is at all. And probably no idea about what’s be created right now and actually moving the ball forwards",
"And my dislike of large crowds has been renewed for the next 70 years.",
"If it makes you any better I though he was Travis Baker from Blink-182",
"Are you against using distortion and effects on guitar and other instruments as well? The voice is just an instrument like all others, and it's role changes depending on the type of music being made.",
"Jacks$$ loser. Lawyers need to get him",
"That thing in his ear. That's a communication device, there in part so the people you're talking about can communicate directly with the performers. I would love to hear a recording if it exists of what was being said over that system to him.",
"Doesn't matter. If you see an ambulance in the crowd at your show and that's your response, you're either an idiot, a sociopath, or both. The ONLY correct response is to stop the damn show and do whatever the fuck you need to do to get that ambulance to where it's going. Period.",
"I'm curious on what you think is being created right now and actually moving the ball forward.",
"nothing to do with race. everything to do with not being a decent human being. get real.",
"I'm younger than you probably. His music is just shit.",
"Porque no los dos?",
"i hope i don't see him on my frontpage anymore",
"How’s it fair? In what world is it okay to flip an ambulance?",
"I never said anything to defend his actions at the concert.",
"This is what I’m so confused about. \n\nI agree that he is 100% a shitbag but if I was up on a stage and saw an ambulance but no one told me to stop the show I would assume it was for a single person suffering from heat stroke or intoxication. \n\nI’ve only seen bits and pieces from the show and so far this is the scariest video I’ve seen but I’m not sure how anyone outside the immediate vicinity was supposed to know what was happening. \n\nAgain, he should absolutely be help liable for his part in this but I don’t think he’s the only one that dropped the ball here",
">had huge appeal to kids\n\nSome of us are older\n\nBut yeah, not everyone pays attention to hip hop or McDonald's commercials",
"I feel like a judgmental person because all I can think of is \"there's no way this dude is sober.\" I almost think his \"if everybody good, put your middle finger up in the sky\" was an actual attempt to find out if people were still into the show.",
"Yah i dont trust Lando Calrissian",
"Why aren’t *you* on Reddit during a meeting?",
"My thoughts exactly! \n\nI honestly have basically zero experience with concerts. I had no idea until this happened and people started posting videos of other artists stopping the crowds when they saw someone get hurt or things get out of hand that that it was like... Their responsibility?! What the fuck? \n\nTravis Scott obviously sucks in general, but I was genuinely confused when I first read about this that he was being blamed for this. I assumed there was a whole team of professionals, part of the security team, that would handle this stuff.",
"Because, as has been demonstrated by every video that went big on Reddit over the weekend, if you're not a raging moron, you, as an artist, can stop the show to help people out.",
"Okay I don’t get how people are saying that he makes bad music. Like he’s a pos for what happened at the concert but it’s actually blowing my mind that there are people on Reddit saying that his music is below mediocre, like he is one of the biggest rappers in the industry and has been top of the charts many times. I wonder if this is a case of old dudes in Reddit acting like current popular music is trash, I mean come kn everybody has heard Sicko Mode, or Goosebumps, etc.",
"99% of people on a biased platform with a history of jumping to and converging on incorrect conclusions with a lack of information are the north star for correctly interpreting facts? And I’m blind?! Ok.",
"le wrong generation vibes. DAE only listen to classic rock?",
"Yeah, I think he’s a piece of shit but it definitely looked like he was listening to someone tell him to move on",
"you're arguing with someone who doesn't understand that their opinion isn't authoritative, and they are not the objective arbiter of good taste in music. AKA an idiot",
"Holy fuck. I'm trying to find some kind of nunance in this situation, give the dude the benefit of the doubt and make the almost always fair assumption that the internet and media are making things look worse than they are. \n\nBut how the fuck can you justify this? What context could ever possibly make this anything other than evil?",
"He can't even mumble while standing still holding a microphone. The computer is doing literally everything. I'm pretty sure rap was invented to be full of lyrics, lots of talking, rhyming, over a beat. \"Uh uh yeah yeah 90210 90210 uh yeah uh uh\" is not rap. It's just utter dogshit.",
"They’re definitely going to blame him as much as possible to get heat off themselves. \n\nNot that he isn’t liable. (I’m not sure how much he knew before restarting the music) but law enforcement is responsible for crowd control and someone off stage really should’ve pulled the plug. \n\nThey’ll take whatever blame he DOES warrant and leverage it completely in order to take the pressure off their own fuckup",
"The dude already has a massive fanbase. Y’all are acting like he’s some up-and-coming artist because you’ve never heard of him. Not defending him or his actions, but I seriously doubt this will have any lasting impact on his career.",
"What do I even say to this?\n\nYou're seriously implying that anyone could've been up there throwing a middle finger to the ambulance, because the staff didn't say \"hey there's an ambulance, don't flip them off\"?\n\nYou a fan? You sound like a fan, if you know what I mean.",
"\"music\"... OK.",
">the guy was not able to canvas\n\nnot sure what you mean, exactly.",
"Travis Scott - on camera- sociopath.. \n\nCancel Travis Scott",
"I have to emphasize that this cannot be an excuse. He's still completely responsible for his behavior.",
"you forgot lil dicky, watsky, hopsin, probably lupe",
"Yeah I think so. It’s all good though. You should watch the video again but this time take Travis’s dick out of your mouth",
"Well now we know all of the dystopian stories of games-to-the-death style entertainment aren't far away",
"Why are you trying to reason with someone who is clearly mentally unwell",
"No date and no rubber",
"Dude watch this again. His eyes are looking in the same exact place when he’s looking at the ambulance and when he tells everyone to put their fingers up.",
"that chili sauce was stupid good.",
"They arent flipping off the ambulance. The timing from their perspective is likely entirely coincidental.\n\nPeople get told \"put your middle finger up\" all the time at concerts.",
"That's exactly the kind of person who would still support him. \n\nIt just becomes the norm to people. \n\nWhen people asked why Rihanna stayed with him for so long (it was obviously not a one time incident), she said she grew up in an environment where men were just allowed to act like that and it was the norm. She didn't think it was unusual at all.\n\nPeople also have a tendency to try to rationalize their traumatic experiences as \"not that big of a deal.\" Like people who were beaten by their parents will often push down their feelings of discomfort when they learn about other kids being abused and claim \"it's no big deal, it's fine, I'm totally fine\" and victim blame the kid.",
"It doesn't matter how rap started, it matters where it is now because music evolves like that. \n\nCan you imagine if all instruments were only used in their originally intended ways? Your favorite songs most likely wouldn't exist.",
"I can hate him as much as you and still respect facts. Take Reddit’s dick out of your mouth?",
"Fortnite gets weird, like the time Star Wars: Episode IX began there.",
"lol he’s number 26 on Spotify right now, and has been in the single digits. His fame didn’t come from this moment.",
"I'm not excusing his behavior. Just showing how everyone involved basically allowed this to happen. No amount of money in the world is worth someone dying at a concert.",
"Why would his career be affected, people will forget in 2 weeks",
"Scott specifically mentions it’s an ambulance. People are echoing him in the crowd, according to the recording. I am not giving the crowd any benefit of any doubt.",
"It didn’t. One girl reaches up to another girl to close her shirt for her.",
"Piece of shit. I hope this ruins him.",
"He's not white, so it's okay",
">he'll have a hard time finding sponsors and fanbase.\n\nNo he won't. I was once hopeful, like you. I think the final nail in my hope coffin was watching Chris Brown barely take a hit. Watching women... *women* still selling out his shows... it's unreal what people will overlook to engage in some hero worship of famous pieces of shit.",
"They are saying Robyn F. is a habitual line stepper who knew she could trigger Chris B.",
"congrats? You know that doesn't make you cool or special. You're like those dorks that run around at parties bragging about not watching TV anymore. No one cares.",
"From all of the shows I’ve been to security does fuck all except for pulling down crowd surfers and keeping people from rushing the stage. Majority of the time you can tell they are a hire for event type of crew. Overwhelming security isn’t the issue here. Sound guys have more power than security in this situation.\n\nI do agree that any performer worth their salt SHOULD have stopped the show. Plenty of bands/performers hype crowds, encourage fans to push boundaries. The staff (not security) is to blame here just as much. Example. I was recently at a show where the fire alarm was pulled. The performer and venue knew there was no fire but protocol had to be followed. The performer tried to continue the show without following protocol and the venue cut it until the building was cleared. This is what should have happened. It should not have been at artist discretion. Fuck Travis for his choices tho.",
"What a piece of shit.",
"No. You’re right. It is a very selfless girl looking out for another girl, even while in distress.",
"When does he say to give them the finger? I only hear to put your hands in the sky.",
"Chris Brown still topped charts years after almost killing Rihanna with how he beat her up, so, not likely to happen",
"I don't have meetings :'(",
"Have some confidence bro. Quit ending every sentence with a goddamn question mark",
"Right… Concert venues will want nothing to do with him now. No big major companies will. The legal ramifications of what he has done is just horrible. Nobody will want to touch him with a 10 foot poll. There are stories out there about how even his own security doesn’t like him. They have a high turn over rate because they always quit. He incites his fans to be violent and disobey security and safety protocol and jeopordizes his security team life as well.",
"you know what else is pretty gangster.... living",
"This is the correct take. Travis like all performing artists have a type of earbuds in for someone to talk into his ear.\n **EDIT: I’m not talking about the in-ear monitors They are called talkback mics for everyone saying the earbuds are for hearing themselves. **\nThere should be a cooperation between venue and artist handler/artist thru these earbuds, as to where to pause the show, (ambulance in the crowd?), and this didn’t happen. Most artists will just stop the show on their own, because when you don’t it’s a lot harder to actually assess the situation and see how bad it is. Clearly Travis didn’t, he didn’t even pause long enough to tell the crowd to let the ambulance thru, and clearly it was bad. The venue didn’t have enough security/not fast enough to respond to scene and communicate to venue who then would communicate with artist to pause. So yes Travis has a lot of blame but so does the venue/operations. (Source: I’ve worked both medical and parking at festivals and concerts)",
"His music is autotune garbage. I've never heard it before, but hearing it in the course of watching videos of the crush... It's so fucking terrible.",
"If the people in his ear told him it was over his mic would stop working and the lights would come up.",
"Criticizes use of punctuation. Doesn’t use punctuation.",
"That’s crap and you know it.",
"A little bit of everything. Doowop, folk music, techno, metal, hip hop, classic rock, mid-2000s rock (whatever it's called,) old stuff from the 1920s and 30s, jazz, big band, foreign language music, a little bit of everything. But modern music like mumble rap is so bad it's pathetic.",
"Yet thousands seem to love him and do whatever he tells them\n\nPut your finger up",
"Same. Station fire vid has stopped me from clicking on a lot of blue links.",
"How do we know he saw the ambulance? He only described seeing amber lamps; it may have been anything!",
"He deserves what he gets. Karma is coming dude...😡",
"I haven't heard either",
"why would continuing to play while people die make him $? That doesn't even make sense.",
"Never listened to the guy in my life. I've just spent enough time on the internet to spot an internet hysteria hate mob when I see one. Just watch people are gonna start pulling up random videos of his older concerts. Start comparing him to other performers in \"similar\" situations. Posting out of context quotes from him. Start trying to \"we did it reddit\" investigate the entire concert from multiple camera angles. The outrage train is just too fascinating for people I guess.\n\nImagine if we spent the same energy supporting the families harmed by the incident as we did socially lynching whatever face is most easily associable with the tragedy.",
"Holy fucking shit",
"Sounds like you have your own stuff going on. \n\n\nThe guy just said \"You said this about X person.\" and I said \"I've never heard of that person.\" \nIt would have been really weird of him to then say \"Oh congrats? You think that makes you so cool?! Look at you bragging! No-one cares!\"",
"Same here,",
"What is wrong with you.",
"35 sec into this clip.",
"I think he says \"if everybody good put middle finger In the sky\"",
"The video is super unclear, it starts with \"....ambulance\" and then he looks around confused and talks with two dudes for a minute. A couple people in the crowd are like \"huh? Ambulance?\"\n\nThen he starts going into his next song.\n\nIts an entirely normal reaction for someone in the crowd with no vantage point to conclude \"ok, next song, i guess everything is fine\".",
"He seemed like an asshole from his music, and he was.",
"I haven’t really read anything on calling for his death but I have read a lot on decreasing his popularity overall.",
"Travis' fanbase is just as mindless, so he'll still be popular. In *every* thread about this, there's some asshats defending him.",
"The video is super unclear, it starts with \"....ambulance\" and then he looks around confused and talks with two dudes for a minute. A couple people in the crowd are like \"huh? Ambulance?\"\n\nThen he starts going into his next song.\n\nIts an entirely normal reaction for someone in the crowd with no vantage point to conclude \"ok, next song, i guess everything is fine\".",
"So when I threw a tantrum in my room aged 7 I could have filmed it and sold out a concert? Because that's what that looked like.",
"I don’t think he knew what was going on and I think he feels dumb as hell for not knowing",
"I heard the name and concert in Texas and assumed he was a country music singer.",
"Hey if Chris Brown can move upwards after beating up Rhianna, just imagine what 8 dead fans can do for Travis Scott! /s",
"I tried to keep an open mind, but you don't hear his voice without autotune. Is all rap autotune now?",
"Meanwhile at the Slipknot+Killswitch Engage show last month, people are slamming each other around and the second somebody goes down, a human wall forms around them and moshers stop to pick people up and make sure they're ok.\n\nI've seen the hardest mosh pits in my life come to a grinding halt to find someone's glasses or a missing shoe, much less someone going down.\n\nThis is why i love metal shows.",
"Distortion was originally used because it was a new and different sound. It wasn't invented in order to disguise the fact that someone can't play guitar (though certainly some people used it for that, and nobody is walking around calling them \"talented\" musicians).\n\nAutotune exists because people with no singing talent needed some digital training wheels so people couldn't tell they can't sing for shit. It was much less about \"art\" and much more about making it easy for people with little or no talent to hide it.\n\nWould you have respect for a piano player using \"autoplay\" that automatically hit all the right notes regardless of what they hit on the piano? Would you call them a \"talented\" pianist?",
"Music to not be caught dead to.",
"You did say he was \"gawking slack jawed\" and \"he must be on something\". I was offering an alternative story that doesn't involve him being a drug abusing moron, just a naive and confused performer trying to figure out what to do in a confusing situation.",
"That's really fucked up, and this is not an attempt to lighten the situation at all, but props to the girl who pulled the other girls top in to avoid the seriously impending nip slip.\n\nEDIT: Also ***wow*** I forgot how bad youtube comments are jesus fucking christ.",
"His money isn’t new.",
"But we don't know if Rihanna asked for it or not, that was never made clear.\n\nThe audience definitely didn't ask for what happened here.",
"I know but that's the point all his work for the Musik industry will blow up and be seen as not so important if this idiot doesn't grow a responsibility for his voice",
"The more I hear the more this sounds like some kind of planned sacrifice. He’s seems to get his kicks inciting violence. Heard reports of people being injected with drugs too. This is fucked. It seems like a likely place to get kidnapped into sex trafficking too.",
"The reason this got so much traction is because Scott is a rapper and black, and Redditbros are absolutely salivating over the \"dumb thug\" stereotype. If this had happened at a Radiohead concert, they wouldn't give a shit, even if the band reacted in a completely shitty way.",
"I didn't say they're not big nor did I say I didn't know him.\n\nBut that style of music seems to be the biggest genre in the US and I don't think it's quite the same level outside of it. So not \"as big\".",
"Which still makes no sense.",
"Well one thing is for sure. You're pretty simple minded if you're gonna be sucked in by an addition of 4 chicken nuggets to an extra value meal with a picture of Travis Scott in the background.",
"That's what I said. But she's bought into the hysteria internet hate train pretty deep and now her tiktok algorithm has learned what she likes to see",
"Thing is, if Travis stopped performing and let the crowd calm and the emergency services get in the rest of it may have been fine. \n\n\nHe had complete control to stop the situation but chose to make it worse. I'm not saying the rest of the precautions were as good as they should have been, but Travis could have saved lives if he was almost any other musician. In a just world his action would be seen as a degree of manslaughter.",
"Can’t speak for OP, but not sure how it’s racist?\n\nTravis Scott just has the look on his face of someone who doesn’t give a shit about what’s going on or can’t process what’s going on. \n\nHopefully it’s the latter, but if not, then he is projecting the look of someone who is a terrible person.",
"Just one angle away from seeing the devil?",
"Glad to see someone else calling out that shit hole of a sub",
"My point is that autotune rap seems to be the most popular genre of music in the US atm. If autotune rap is the biggest genre in Germany too then fair enough, I stand corrected.",
"The circumstances of death do not merit making fun of it.",
"logic sucks bro",
"reddit moment\n\nguy sympathizes for a girl that may have just been sexually assaulted and you call him mentally unwell.",
"> But it seems unrealistic to expect performers to be aware of what is happening while they perform at all times and to be experts at crowd control.\n\nI would agree with that, knowing that it's hard to see stuff from on-stage, except there's all the examples of performers seeing problems and stopping them. So it doesn't seem unreasonable. It's not like, say, demanding the Who know what's going on at the gate where they can't see.",
"Very well said.",
"There's versions of this clip circulating on social media clipped to right before he tells people to put up the middle finger. the posts were titled something like \"travis scott might have sensed something was wrong\" to make him look like a hero. absolutely disgusting",
"Auto tune really blew up off the back of T-Pain, who is literally a talented singer who used it to be different. Go watch videos of him singing live and tell me he can't sing for shit. Beyond that being able to sing doesn't matter for all genres of music.",
"But I was told \"he was devastated\" to learn of the casualties.",
"Bye, Travis Scott's career.",
"If you look at the videos of him, he looks out of his mind on some type of benzodiazepines or other downers which would keep him from having a proportionate panic response to danger.\n\nI’m not saying the drugs are to blame but if you mix a toxic attitude with a chemical suppression, good sense goes out the window.",
"We get it. Travis Scott is a piece of shit and everyone who likes him deserves death. Got it",
"Just because you live under a rock doesn't mean the guy's unpopular he's one of the biggest rappers out right now. Seems like a piece of shit but this is definitely not where any recognition is coming from lmao.",
"Yeah, I don't think anyone reasonable would think differently from what your saying. Unfortunately, the ignorant stans feel differently. I hope I didn't come off like that. All he had to do what stop the music and tell people to back up at the very least. It's get worse as you learn more details like the stuff I mentioned in previous comments.",
"Fuck this guy. No regards to life.",
"lol what a fucking loser",
"I've been to countless music festivals and outdoor shows, and I've never seen an ambulance driving into the crowd... I have seen people collapse, and paramedics coming in to carry them out, but I'd imagine shit had to be real bad for an entire ambulance to be driving up.",
"Think you meant to reply to the person above me",
"he literally just looks like an average black dude. there’s nothing inherently bad about how he looks. \n\nsaying he automatically “look likes a terrible person” showcases some deep, racist sentiments.\n\njust like all the comments calling him a “slack-jawed monkey”, “low IQ thug”, or any of Reddit’s favorite racist dogwhistles",
"you can always tell how white a redditor is when he says ____ is a mumble rapper",
"It's not that hard to get everyone on the bandwagon of hating a black celebrity",
"Same.",
"I have definitely noticed a deep hatred of rap/mumble rap/pop rap on Reddit and I have a hard time believing it has any other roots than racism.",
"congrats, you missed the point entirely. It's not particularly cool or interesting to be a contrarian about music you don't even listen to because it's popular. \"It's bad\" is not an opinion you can even qualify. \"I don't like it\", sure, but why are you positioning yourself as the gatekeeper of musical taste? Who the fuck are you? \n\nThis guy was nominated for 5 grammys, one of them was for album of the year. His album was critically acclaimed when it came out. I'd love to hear you back up your opinion. What exactly makes mumble rap bad? Have you even listened to enough Travis Scott music to know what genre his music falls under? What makes \"Sicko Mode\" mumble rap?",
"Well, then you have no excuse to not be on Reddit :P",
"He says put up a finger to the sky and then raises his index finder. Never mentions middle finger. Title is a blatant lie.",
"It's a trauma response, victim blaming. People don't want to believe it can happen to them. The girls are blaming Rihanna because subconsciously they crave a sense of agency. They don't want to think a man can just do that for no reason even if you hadn't brought it upon yourself somehow.",
"Fuck this dude. All that shoe and merch bullshit. He's a grifter.",
"Yeah well he's a satanist, so...",
"I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at the stupid computer generated voice at the beginning of the video. Why would you put that on something so serious, like it's just another dumb TikTok?",
"Spoiler alert: This is also how Climate Change is going to work.",
"Totally agree. They should have wave breaks and all kinds of shit that they know works for this kind of thing. This was an example of the artist, manager, venue, etc being dumb asses all around.",
"\"I don't like this so therefore it must not be influential!\" Yeah I'm sure Adolf Hitler wasn't Influential in 1930s-1940s Germany. Doesn't matter the quality of something it can still have an impact, and generally speaking the thing that leads to a shift tends to be worse than what comes after. Don't get me wrong I don't like the dude but this is boomer shit.",
"It's nice living in fantasy land. But the reality is that it all comes down to money. If the dust settles a bit, then companies will still want him to be a part of whatever they are doing because it means bringing in money.\n\nCorporate America does not care about this stuff in the long run. It's all PR. Yes, they will take a step back, but that's only to reassess their options. If there is still enough money to be had, they will get that money over everything else.",
"My mom still thinks every one of cosbys victims was lying and same with Rihanna. I'm not even positive she knows who r Kelly is lol",
"Not making any excuse but the middle finger wasn’t for the ambulance but for the song he was about to play. He usually does this before any hype songs like no bystanders or upper echelon. Go check out his previous shows to see for yourself",
"If Reddit keeps this up we're going to have to dedicate our entire supply chain to restocking dog whistles.",
"He is married to a Kardashian what did they expect?",
"No you don't, just people can read the initial comment I responded to and take it that way if they're the (bots) defending Travis Scott in all of this. Just wanted to, like I said, emphasize that it can't be an excuse used in his defense that other people also bear some responsibility.",
"But I'm at work, does that not count? :(",
"Travis Tritt? Pretty big country singer.",
"This is a dumb stretch",
"Agreed. Also no one wants to talk about why people are being excessively hostile to a black celebrity.",
"> a devastating maniacal period that cost him his carreer and his marriage\n\nLet's all feel sorry for the billionaire without a career",
"Wait. I'm confused. He wasnt flipping off the AMBULANCE, was he? Just in spite of it? Like I thought that was just his bit and he ignored the ambulance and kept going",
"It’s like the Fkn battle of the bastards",
"hhcj material",
"You still stop the show.\n\nAlso: fuck the entire crew, the DJs, video board artists, sound board, lights, and security who didn’t pull rank on this asshole and house lights up mic off.",
"Tell me you don't know the origins of Autotune without saying \"I don't know the origins of Autotune.\"",
"I literally surfed through like 100 comments in this post and this is literally the only one mentioning race. \n\nLots of people said he sucks etc, not one mentioned race.",
"What'll actually happen: He'll complain that he's being cancelled, while his shows and albums continue to sell, then get a multi-million dollar record/tv deal.",
"It's funny, because EDM artists usually change up their act a lot live. Orbital live is another level than album.",
"Everyone surprised a rapper that glorifies violence, drugs, and stealing bitches has little concern for others' well-beings lol",
"Not much, just resonated out of where they are going so it’s pretty funny seeing you humans choose to go down realities when it’s just as easy to go up realities. But that’s the point of the human existence, to choose your experience.",
"He's truly profoundly dumb. If youve ever seen the interviewed of him and Kylie, mother of his children he's been together with for like 5+ years, he acted like he had no idea who she was or where he was. I think he's just really unintelligent but also stoned 100% of the time.",
"Seems genuinely like he's taking the ambulance seriously, then the idea of the audience standing still but holding up a middle finger is to ease the audience back into the mood. I think the problem is that the concert organzer who'd already been advised to close the concert never passed the message on to Travis Scott that there had been serious injuries ongoing.",
"This is a 30 year old man with children. I guess he wouldn’t care if they were killed in a concert one day.",
"I think he got killed in a driveby from Lil Squeegee.",
"I don't know anything about this performer, and most of his fans would probably call me a boomer at this point, but you're being disingenuous. He didn't directly encourage anyone to kill anyone. He whipped the crowd into a frenzy, which is literally his job. Someone else' job was to hire security and ensure people are safe. Someone dropped the ball, yeah, but no one knows who so they point to the person on stage.\n\nPunk/hardcore shows have been a hotbed for injuries, hospitalizations, and in some cases deaths for decades. Suburban parents everywhere have been shocked and appalled for at least as long. The Safety Dance was literally written about this topic over 30 years ago. It's not anything new, it's just that the average redditor is now old enough they're reacting like straight-laced parents who only hear about what the kids are up to through the local news.\n\nYour Metallica comment is as good as my uncle saying, \"No one's ever died at a Zeppelin show!\"",
"I hope he gets financially destroyed over this.",
"I was gonna say \"bullshit like this just doesn't happen at EDM shows\" but then you reminded me Steve Aoki exists\n\nEdit, for those who don't know: the caking is sorta his signature thing, and I can sorta sorta understand the fan appeal of being on the receiving end. But his raft stunt has gotten people very seriously hurt before, like life-altering spinal injuries in at least one case.",
"So disturbing. Someone gropes the girls boobs as she’s trying to save herself too.",
"I see, good point.\n\nUnrelated why do you spell music like that?",
"lol.",
"I hate cancel culture. But this dude needs canceled. Fuck this guy.",
"These videos are really gonna hurt him in the HUNDREDS of lawsuits coming against him.",
"CUNT",
"He will still be idolized.",
"You know literally nothing about the Rap scene or industry.",
"And sweety sauce.",
"I've been playing shows for years, and going to many music festivals in my area. I have not heard of this guy until people died. Haven't even heard about him from producers or engineers which is funny because he literally let one of his producers suffer a seizure at a party where HE LEFT when that shit happened (heard this story in one of the threads talking about this current tragedy)\n\nThere's usually a reason people in the industry don't talk about you. Like if you're shit to work with.",
"I understand so little of this comment.",
"Performers should certainly have a responsibility to stop the concert and resolve problems when they see them. But I don't think we should have no backup systems in place in case they aren't able to perceive a problem and identify that it is serious enough to warrant stopping the show. Just because we have examples of it happening doesn't mean it's a reliable way to handle concert safety.\n\nAnother way to put it: for every asshole like Travis Scott there are likely dozens of performers who would happily stop the show if they were aware of a safety issue, but who might not be aware of an issue developing in the chaos of a live performance.",
"I suppose it's not impossible for someone to talk to a performer through their earbuds, but a significant majority of those earbuds are in-ear monitors, only used to hear the music. I've never heard of a performer having someone from their crew or the venue talk to them through their monitors.",
"This guy is a piece of shit. No respect for Ambulance service??? Wow. …just wow.",
"Not the point",
"They give me goosebumps every time ^^/s",
"The appeal to his music for younger generations is to just rage and act ignorant. Im a hip hop head and have listened to every single one of travis’s projects, days before rodeo, his second mixtape was the best thing he ever did.\n\nEverything after that is just basically good production, shitty rapping and way too much auto tune. \n\nIdk why folks love to rage so much but they do",
"No doubt, Chris Browns career was seriously derailed over it though. That whole situation seemed strange to me...I never jump to conclusions on shit like that..just like with Amber Heard and Johny Depp, I remember arguing Depps side and getting tons of hate..",
"Not the point.",
"This is usually (loosely) the job of the fire marshals. They are in charge of the safety of large crowds especially dealing with ingress and egress. They have the power to straight up shut down events for capacity issues. They should’ve stepped in on this instance as well.",
"Dude fuck this guy forever and charge him with a crime",
"Not with cancel culture. He’s done. Enough money in the world can’t bring you back from that. Maybe Kris Jenner can",
"I dont know who this guy is, now I do and he is piece of shit",
"2 points here.. \n\n1) the dumbass in the croud that responds \"hell, I'll do that\" in response to Scott asking fans to out middle fingers up\n\n2) why is Travis Scott wearing O.J.'s gloves?",
"what the fuck is that music anyways horrible ear cancer",
"For some people music isn’t about harmonic beauty, more an atmosphere of insouciant aggression.",
"It looked like a grope to me too, if not for your comment I wouldn't have realized",
"Where can I find footage?",
"Yea I mean it sucks but kids go down at concerts, ambulances attended to folks.\n\nI’ve watched multiple people be attended to and carted away at concerts. Which is always something when you high af on LSD",
"Dudes a 7th grader, I swear.",
"These comments are telling on themselves saying they didn't know Travis Scott. Midaswell just tell me you live under a rock",
"🤡",
"That's how confident he is",
"Dude, it's the shakiest video ever taken. No one is seeing what they want to see it's just hard to see anything lmao",
"R Kelly groomed minors and held them hostage for decades before facing any real consequences. It is all very depressing",
"“Anything can happen at the night show” 🤦🏻♀️ unreal",
"Who is it? Go away!",
"Is this a famous autotune rapper?",
"Yeah, it's definitely not just music artists. In America, enough money gives you new rules to play by.",
"Bruh wtf are you talking about… go look at the /r/TravisScott subreddit. A considerable amount of fans have left, and no one is fucking laughing… jfc some people spread bs everywhere\n\nI implore you to go into the AstroFest 2021 Attendees thread and find me one comment about people laughing at dead bodies. If you can find one I will concede my point. The event as a whole is a tragedy and Travis is disgusting for what he did, but saying people laughed at dead bodies is sickening",
"I remember on Guns & Roses massive concerts when Axl saw people being crushed he stop the song & he begin to give instructions to the people in the back to step back so people in the front can breath, he didn’t resume the show until everyone was ok. Artist have the control over their fans, also artist have some blame if their fans get injured or dead",
"I saw other footage.. could be wrong though.",
"Wonder if the locations he is supposed to tour will cancel on him.",
"Because \"not caring about anything\" seems cool to people with underdeveloped brains. Remember high school?",
"Chris Brown fans say that may not be a realistic outcome.",
"While that's true, it is ultimately *his* festival. \"Astro\" is his personal brand. If the management/security/etc was shit, it's because he dropped the ball when it came to making those arrangements.",
"Heads up. You accidentally wrote that reply here instead of to that comment that says \"I know everything about the rap scene and industry.\" \n\n\nYou'll really dunk on him with this reply so go get him!",
"Genuine question: who is he flipping off then if not the interruption?\n\nEdit: it amuses me that this is a controversial question.",
"I may be misremembering but didn't she not press charges and that was a big reason why they didn't go for criminal charges? It's been too long and I dint follow it closely to begin with.",
"His studio hits no but after seeing some of his live concert footage he does plenty of mumbling.",
"I think their point is that it should be a regulation and you don't get a festival or concert permit without these things in place.",
"This guy is trash.",
"I’m sure someone will do a full breakdown on YouTube in no time",
"RemindMe! 70 years ......... We will see",
"Yeah fuck Steve Aoki too. Jumping on the raft and injuring fans below was such a reckless and idiotic move",
"of course not",
"😂😂😂",
"Chris Brown not ring a bell? He's literally still selling albums. And he will continue selling albums because his fans do. not. care.\n\nYes, the *concept* of \"Cancel Culture\" makes sense. You bury piece of shit people so they never see the light of day again, but in reality it doesn't quite work that way. Most people who are \"canceled\" are temporarily inconvenienced at best.\n\nAnd at worst, people have decided to take it unto themselves to say they are being canceled when they're not. Some Karen does or says some stupid shit, posts it onto the internet, people tell them they are trash, and suddenly they cry about cancel culture because people call them out on their bullshit. Doesn't typically even do anything to them other than that one instance.",
"> nearly beat Rihanna to death \n\nlol embellishment",
"I wonder if Kiley Jenner would stick with him if hes deemed socially a pariah an no longer fits into the master equation lol",
"He will definitely hold some level of responsibility. Absolutely.",
"Ever seen Sméagol?",
"Classic mixup",
"8 people died and you're like, \"Seems like a great guy who really cares. Nothing could have been done differently\".",
"That’s why i put “no live element” in quotations. I think good live DJs have a really low bar since people only notice when they mess up",
"Women are still defending this piece of shit and actually turned on by the idea of getting beat up by him... Our species is a lost cause.",
"I mean minimum you do is ask the crew what's going on.\n\nFor heat stroke or intoxication, security would carry that person to the first aid area. Ambulance coming in is for serious emergencies, so you'd defo ask whats up.",
"Yo, hes not dumb, hes an artist /S!",
"Who is this turd?",
">Remember high school?\n\nbeen awhile, bruv.",
"FUCK HIM UP\nFUCK HIM UP\nFUCK HIM UP",
"Well, he can go die in a fire.",
"R Kelley checking in.",
"why do you think he's \"trained\" at all? That part confused me. An artist doesn't receive training on how to perform. There is no corporate seminar.",
"So I’m honestly not sure where to post this story. I do want people to see it. I posted it a long time ago when I first got my Reddit account and I can’t remember if I deleted it or if it’s still there. Obviously this is a problem. There is a problem with artists not caring or is it venues not caring? Or the ones who sponsor the ticket sales, is it their fault? I attended in 2012 in Houston (at what was the Verizon venue) a Nero concert. It was one of the the worst experiences of my life. I had been attending mostly rock concerts my whole life then I decided to try out this dubstep one. I was a big fan enjoyed the music and mind you by this time I’m an adult. I’m young but I’m an adult. We (a large group of us) all went together, got there early and naturally made our way to the front. I quickly realized the crowd was a majority of children. How did I know? So many around us engaged in conversation and they wanted to know how old my baby faced husband and I were at the time. I found out they ranged from 15 to 17. Soon after it started one of those kids vomited all over my friend. We quickly made our way out of the crowd to address his shirt but that was when I realized the absolute chaos of the crowd and what was really happening. There were kids being carried out on stretchers and kids having bad drug trips. There were kids handcuffed sitting on the sidewalk and I watched as many were dropped off by what was obviously their parents. They would strip their clothes to wear absolutely next to nothing then party hard. Drugs, alcohol…it was everywhere. How was this even allowed? I would totally understand if this was some festival being attended by adults outside in some desert but these were children and I didn’t see venue staff, Nero or bouncers doing anything about it. It was police and medics. We left before the show finished but not before I had an absolute breakdown and panic attack. The whole entire time that dubstep was just blaring and it was all like it was no big deal. I can’t find any news reports about it. I’m assuming no one was injured seriously thank goodness but I hated it. I can’t imagine looking down and seeing dead bodies as the trash sound continues around you. There are so many people at fault in this situation.",
"If those earbuds are capable of communication from the event/security staff, you have no earthly idea if they told him to pull back and he ignored them or if they told him it was ok to proceed.",
"Yeah, let's all flip off the emergency responders! That's a totally normal thing to do!\n\nFuck off, his fans laughed and went right along with him",
"[https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/07/us/astroworld-travis-scott-deaths.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/07/us/astroworld-travis-scott-deaths.html)\n\nNow im not saying this article is facts, but if its correct, there were already 300+ people in the injury tents before he started. The police chief told him before hand that there were way too many people going, and his people did come up to him mid concert to say something is up but he shooed them away.\n\n\"But the number of people in need of medical care — which grew to more than 300 and possibly many more — appeared to overwhelm those resources even before Mr. Scott began performing.\"\n\n\"The music paused around 9:30 p.m. as an ambulance made its way into the crowd. It was around that time that Mr. Anjum got his first call for cardiac arrest. It took 10 minutes to get through the crowd to the patient, he said.\"\"As the music was stopped, two men who appeared to be part of Mr. Scott’s entourage approached him onstage, according to a video of the concert that has since been taken down. Mr. Scott shooed them away.\"\n\nAgain im not saying all that is true since I wasn't there, but he definitely had a lot of chances to check on if something is wrong if this article is facts.",
"Me too man, me too",
"Dude no matter how you slice it, Travis Scott is one of the biggest artists on the planet. I highly doubt this will affect that, as heinous as it might be.",
"There are statements made by people why barely escaped the stampede who hear his music now and think of a shit show. I honestly had no idea who he was before this incident and I honestly do not care to know. he had the power to help them get care or help them die. He chose to kill them. That’s the kind of person he is.",
"Yeah, emergency services, vent organisers, management. Travis Scott is definitely a piece of shit, but it is extremely rare for the performer to be the one responsible for these types of incidents. He has culpability because of his comments preceding the event, eg to rush the stage... I'm not aware that he made any comments that would exlicitly endanger audience members.\n\nSome event organiser is absolutely shitting themselves right now because they pulled the plug on 8 people and not Travis.",
"Honestly this is stumping me on how to reply so just have [this](https://imgur.com/gallery/A2r8dCD)",
"We have to be careful about this. It is possible that we are just hearing about a select few cases where bands were able to observe this and stopped the show, and it happens much more often.\n\nIn short, I am saying that anecdotes are not data and we don't know enough and should not let our biases let us jump to conclusion too quickly.",
"And let's not forget that R. Kelly stayed popular and out of jail for decades after video evidence was shown of him sexually molesting a 15-year-old girl.",
"That’s the whole point of my comment? The venue/ops has as much to blame as the artist. But if he ignored them telling him to pull back for 30+ minutes why didn’t they cut the power/sound?",
"General Mills, too.",
"Jesus christ",
"you know I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but this video proves it: he's a piece of shit. he fucking knew.",
"Both can be true. I had to rewatch to confirm tbh",
"The insurance companies might make it impossible for him to do anymore live shows other than small club dates.",
"I just feel bad that he's tarnished the immense affect he's had on the music industry and human history in general, a musical genius that has never and will never be rivalled. I can't even listen to music anymore since hearing Travis Scott's music, therapists say my chances of ever listening to any other music again is slim and I think I'm dying but I'd happily die a thousand deaths knowing that through my unworthy, mortal ears I was able to consume gift after gift from an actual god.",
"I can hear what people were describing as animal, primal screams. That's just horrific.",
"Don't worry sweetie. You won't make it seventy more years. Something else is gonna get you before then.\n\nBut at least you won't have to go listening to this asshat, hopefully.",
"Calling him a rapper is a stretch. Dude is an autotune popstar that makes shitty beats.",
"Charges or not, the career is the issue.",
"Protip, calling it mumble rap only serves to show how ignorant and uneducated you are on this topic",
"He was worldwide-known way before this happened. You just don't listen to/follow rap music at all. Been one of the biggest artists out since Rodeo in 2015",
"I know people seem bad these days, but we have a lot more information available to parse through these days. Trust me when I say people used to be *a lot* worse back in history.",
"I know this is awful, but some of these comments are just too much. Think about what you're actually writing - He's a mainstream artist who is marketed to children via Fortnite and McDonalds, his fanbase are not some bloodthirsty horde blaming the dead for not being hardcore enough. \n\nImpressive that in such a shocking and tragic event people still manage to overexagerate elements of it",
"Seems like something you could just....order",
"There's always one who will justify the abuse. Found you!\n\nEdit: you also really fucked your user name. Karmageddon. Ffs.",
"That's a lot of drones, mindlessly following the directions of a talentless douchebag.",
"https://youtu.be/tydbP2gfUEY\n\nBig Mac, Fries, 4 chicken nuggies and a Sprite.",
"That’s the first time I heard his name. I just assumed he was a nascar driver. I dunno why. Maybe because of the BBQ sauce?",
"I like to think stan means super toxic fan",
"True, he just got derailed for a bit and came back pretty strong. Never should have been allowed.",
"You can see the single brain cell spinning in his head",
"Holy shit you've got to be kidding me\n\n\"We've got an ambulance... Put your middle fingers up\"\n\nYeah. He's clearly doing that as a sign of solidarity!",
"basically every rap artist in the past 30 years has done this, hell i even remember metallica doing it. what artists are you watching?",
"Another entitled shitty artist that needs severely smashed in the face with a hammer.",
"I'm neither young nor hip, and I know Travis Scott. I can't believe everyone on this thread saying they've never heard his name. His \"music\" is just atrocious, and yet I know about him in the same way people know about Kim K, Kate Middleton or Conor McGregor. Famous names that trickle down to the everyman through societal ubiquity and osmosis, I suppose. Redditors, who presumably spend a lot of time online and \"connected\" to present-day references really should be expected to know who this guy is.",
"Same.",
"I didn’t even know who Travis was until this incident hit Reddit.",
"these ppl have def never been to any shows in their lives",
"Contrast it with the sympathy that Alec Baldwin got a couple weeks ago when it was his own production company and scab workers were involved.\n\nOne old white actor gets a pass, but somehow this tragedy is entirely the fault of one black rapper. Why didn't a stage manager or somebody else with authority cut his mike and take charge? Why was there no protocol in place for this?\n\nFeels like a culture war to me.",
"Sadly the truest thing I've read today. Everyone, and everything....sucks.",
"I don’t live under a rock. But I am almost 40. I think that is also a valid excuse for having never heard of this misanthrope.",
"I'm pretty sure she was married to B Jenner by that point.",
"What was the station fire video?",
"i do enjoy mainstream artists like kanye, kendrick, and eminem, but i’m not sure if any of them count as gen z artists.",
"Travis had NO part of my McSweety meal. Different McCalibration.",
"Yikes, I thought you were just a little misdirected, but you're proving yourself to be a world class moron. \nYou didn't win.",
"Man, fuck this guy.",
"It seems to me like that may be what he was doing and no one told him to stop the show. \n\nAgain, I'm not at all trying to excuse him of liability but there were 505 security members, 91 armed private security officers, and 76 Houston police officers. \n\nThey are the ones that fucked up big time. \n\nthis whole situation is so bizarre. People who were at the concert report that they talked to security staff and were dismissed. \n\nScott was a moron who wasn't paying enough attention but the security and police were fully aware and did nothing until it was too late",
"I thought it was Travis Barker and said. Look at that, he's branching out and singing. I didn't know he had so much talent outside of Blink.",
"This is tragic to watch.",
"Because he thinks he is cool like a rapper and He equates ambulance to the police and he thinks middle fingering them is similar to fuck the police. He ain’t that bright.",
"I legit had no idea who Travis Scott is. I still don't really know other than I think he's a rapper? Hip hop?\n\nIt's easy to assume everyone knows something you'd consider \"common\".",
"“There’s an ambulance, all the more reason to rave.” - audience member. The audience is just as bad as this guy. If only people actually challenged themselves with the culture they seek out.",
"Welp, I’m done with this sub. All it’s been are concert posts. It’s now a relevancy sub to gain karma. \n\nPeace out.",
"Ain't that hard to figure out",
"It baffles me young artists, especially female ones, are working with and featuring Chris Brown. They HAVE to know he tried to kill Rihanna and still they agree to work with him.",
"Are you sure? I mean your wasting time in your day to respond to a \"moron\". #winning",
"boomers can't spell 'algorithm' 💎🫂",
"That's because he snitched then he fuckin died lol",
"https://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Woody-Harrelson-Wiping-Tears-Money.gif",
"Which part? What I've read about crowd crush and preventing asphyxiation involves keeping your arms out in front of you. \n\nWe all saw the footage of crowd crush. The footage of him telling folks to lift their arms up. \n\nSo is it a stretch or do you just not like it?",
"Think you’re conflating two different events. The rush the stage thing was years ago.",
"Ofc I have been to a concert. I am not asking any show to be stopped when someone passes out. (as long as they still get the help they need obviously) In fact, I'm not even talking about stopping shows. I am commenting on the raised middle fingers and what it means.",
"I honestly like the BTS meal sauces tbh",
"What is crazier is that this happened *again*. There are very common crowd control practices - specific way of setting up gates, creating different circles - that are used to prevent crushes. \n\nAs Eddie Vedder can attest, this can happen even if the show is stopped. Bitter experience has taught the necessity of these measures, that obviously weren't taken here.",
"I did hear about other arrests and charges but didn't care, much like this time",
"Yes I'm sure. \nAnd this is only the third time I've responded, while you've been in here losing your absolute mind at strangers literally all day. \nGet some help, guy. Stop embarrassing yourself.",
"Wasn't that just the Sweet & Sour sauce rebranded?",
"That’s typically the process with any meal, is it not? \n\nYou can’t get the sweety sauce anymore though. That’s an essential component.",
"I mean, the problem would be a few seconds later when he starts singing and telling the audience he wants to make the ground shake.\n\nHe tried to see what was going on, saw an ambulance, then purposefully decided to not give a shit about that and ended up making their job more difficult.",
"You should get your keyboard checked. A bunch of your words are missing letters.",
"I've come up with a plausible explanation but I'll probably get downvoted to hell. Either way, here goes.\n\n​\n\n* Point 1: I'm using the principle of charity: Never attribute *malice* to what can be explained by sheer *stupidity*.\n* Point 2: There's no way to know if Travis Scott was high on drugs and/or alcohol, which would obviously make his perception of reality ('what was going on' and his 'judgement' of it) diminished.\n* Point 3: He sees an ambulance and doesn't *right away* say anything bad about it. He goes **\"There's an ambulance in the crowd-** ***oh ho ho\"*** like he's reacting to the realization of something the ambulance is doing. If I were to assume anything, I'd think as first responders, the people in charge of the ambulence were being aggressive towards the crowd, maybe even *slowly driving through it* so they can get to the people in need of help faster. I've seen this happen in emergency situations and it's totally possible this is what Travis Scott reacted to.\n* Point 4: The only way to know if what I'm saying happened is to have a shot of the ambulance at the same time he's reacting this way.\n* Point 5: I've never even heard of Travis Scott before all this so I couldn't really give a shit if he gets crucified or not. I'm just trying to throw a bit of nuance here.",
"Their sauce person is on point. For real.",
"With the saweetee and sour sauce",
"Music ? More like buttons and mumbles",
"Fucking loser… he just lucked up and got rich",
"see's people dying in crowd, \"I wanna make this mother fuckin' ground shake\"",
"Here let me let you have the last word so you can get some sleep tonight. Have at it.",
"huh, the fuck what? 48 hours this joke will be okay.. so stupid.",
"Yes. They should've known better. This was utterly preventable.",
">And the comment about saying that Young thug and Travis sound the same let’s me know that you don’t listen to both of them. \n\nBecause taste is a thing.",
"Are you a bot, or just a nutjob that thinks they’re beyond human?",
"Oh I thought that was just someone trying to grab her boob and I thought - holy shit people, what is wrong with you. Glad I was wrong.",
"Mate, let me introduce you to Skillshare!",
">Well now we know all of the dystopian stories of games-to-the-death style entertainment aren't far away\n\n\n\nI mean, in terms of human history as a whole, \"to the death\" entertainment isn't even something that you could consider \"old.\"\n\nHonestly, if there was a \"to the death\" MMA fight that was sanctioned and legal set to air next week, it would probably be the most watched event in the history of television.",
"I think it's just since society in general is much more fragmented than it used to be. In the 80's/90's, something popular was popular with basically everyone, because there were much less avenues by which something could become popular media. In particular, I think the 80's and 90's are the very height of top down media distribution: Back then, access to media was much more universal than the 50's through 70's, since everyone had a TV, but making media was entirely limited to big media companies, and those companies had limited choices on what they could make popular since they each only had a few channels, were competing with each other, and wanted to hit as wide of an audience as possible. As such, everything that was popular became *really* popular because there weren't a ton of options. Nowadays, with streaming and anyone being to become a media person by making stuff themselves and putting it online/monetizing it if they put in the work and it becomes big, lots of things become popular with smaller fanbases. Within each of these smaller groups/fanbases, it feels like *everyone* has watched/heard/read something, but outside of that bubble, most people think of that thing as a specific/niche topic.\n\nFor example it feels like *everyone* has seen one of the Disney+ Marvel shows, but in reality the total viewership of those shows is a very small segment of people.",
"Meanwhile Apple Music must be pissed. They did a lot of promoting and streamed it live, think they went back and deleted all their social media promotion afterwards.",
"Thank you so much for this",
"https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpiiwf/travis_scott_clearly_sees_the_ambulance_and_then/hjunjti/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3\n\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpiiwf/travis_scott_clearly_sees_the_ambulance_and_then/hjupb5v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3\n\nOne of the first few when I entered the thread was someone saying “but he’s black so it’s ok right?”\n \nReddit is a cesspool, and racism is abundant.",
"OJ got away with killing a white woman.",
"What is he a metal rapper? I’m obviously not going to look up his shit on Spotify because, fuck him. I’ve just never heard of him and have no context for his fans.",
"Real hot take",
"He’s in the Kardashian clan now. His career will never be the same but he isn’t going to do time. The Station Nightclub owner got 2-ish years served and the band manager got 1 1/2-ish years served…and that accident was significantly worse and even *more* avoidable.",
"Are you kidding me? How can any of you possibly think that in their dying moments, someone would want to assault someone there in that moment?... they’re fucking grabbing at anything to help them either get up off the ground/other people or stay on their feet.",
">I highly, highly doubt he knew the severity of the situation at the time\n\nYeah sorry not at all trying to convey any kind of judgement on him and his actions. I wasn't there and don't know the whole story. \nJust struck by the concept of asking everyone to throw the bird. \n\n\nBeen to plenty of concerts, but definitely not seen this before. Perhaps it's due to a difference in genre.",
"Wait what? Seeing an ambulance drive through a jam packed crowd isn't a huge deal? Wtf concerts are you going to my man? That is extremely rare and would bring questioning or caution to any imbecile.",
"> and this didn’t happen. \n\nYou made a statement that the venue should have told him through his earbuds (which may or may not have the capability to communicate) **and that it didn't happen**. I am assuming for the moment that the earbuds are capable of that sort of communication, but you have no earthly idea if it did or didn't happen. \n\nI am not laying blame on either Travis Scott or the venue because I don't know enough to evaluate it. I appreciate you are not either, but your mid paragraph statement \"of fact\" is not a fact. For the record, allocating blame between parties in this sort of catastrophic event is exactly what I do for a living.",
"Its just a game to him. The amount of horror stories I have heard about this guy in the last couple of days paints a clear picture that he sees no value in another humans life.",
"Nobody’s getting flipped off, it’s just another form of “put your lighter in the sky” - It seemed obvious to me that he was trying to stall and get some info on what was going on, and did so in order to keep the crowd preoccupied (as the other guy just said)\n\n\n[Video of Travis Scott pausing the show](https://youtu.be/GYupFQ6gGzY)",
"Stage fireworks set off a fire in a packed indoor venue. The crush to get out blocked the main exits and the emergency/band exit was locked. A lot of people died and someone was there to video tape the event from the outside.\n\nIt's haunting. While I do not suggest anybody watch it, I now obsessively look for exits whenever I'm in a crowd.",
"Damn they even showed the ambulance on the screen and still ignored it crazy",
"Yeah he has a very large fanbase. He's going to have to find a way to start killing them off on a much larger scale than 8 at a time to really make a dent in the numbers.",
"OPs point is still valid . just cause you listen to music in large gatherings doesn’t matter. Sure he’s a dick for this but He’s one of the biggest artists in the world right now and has been for the past few years. Look at his stream numbers",
"I’ve been in a mosh like that people pushing to the front it’s honestly like a sea of people it’s terrifying all the girls get knocked to the ground and they snatch onto you for support and you come down with them. You get stuck on the ground and it’s like a big wave everyone who got pushed to the front now is pushing to the back then again the cycle will restart and you’re stuck on the ground trying to get up while helping everyone whose down with you. It was one of the worst experiences I’ve had.",
"Yeah. Green seal with a diamond on it.\n\nThe diamond wasnt real.",
"The medical tents were equipped to handle like 20 people and there were over 300 people that needed help all at once basically. My gf works in healthcare and with staff shortages and covid being rampant for the last almost 2 years, I feel so bad for these medical personnel. \n\nThey literally have one job there and it could have been made easier. I’m sure navigating the huge crowds with music blowing your eardrums out and not able to talk to the person next to you made their job much much more difficult",
"Should have said “That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and here’s why”",
"This is exactly why we need cancel culture. These assholes should have been put aside of society decades ago.",
"I'm really sorry that you're this angry and worked up over the words of a complete stranger on the internet. It's obvious you're not a happy person. \nI hope you get some help and learn to love yourself and your fellow man more. \nIt's a much better world when you learn to look at it differently.",
"Yeah I replied to a comment about someone calling Travis a crackhead yesterday.",
"This x1000. These comments are infuriating. To think ANYONE was thinking about tits in that moment.",
"We can only hope",
"The only non-threatening hairstyle for a Black man is a military flattop, and it better look fresh. Fade? Jail. Cornrows? Jail. Dookie braids? Right to jail. Natural? Believe it or not, jail.",
"Exhibit A in the civil lawsuits.",
"Yup, im trying to defend him since im a big fan but the more information you read about, the worse it looks lol. I agree with your feelings though, none of us were there to really know what happened and whether travis even had any clue what was up. But reading more and more articles, he was warned but ignored it. Houston being his home town, I would guess he wanted to make it a once in a life time type deal.",
"He's literally the poster child for shittiest person in EDM history. Much like Travis Scott, he grew up a spoiled wealthy kid.",
"Knowing nothing of his music, and not having seen any footage but having heard lots about this event, when I saw his reaction I thought he was really concerned, and was about to get really annoyed with everyone overreacting… then the middle finger comment and then.. yeah. Anyone else think for a moment he was worried at the beginning (though he clearly is not)?",
"I mean, the truth is no one solidly knows. You gotta relax man, it's just the internet and a shaky video",
"I never tried that one. I heard the chili sauce was dope from my mcd friends",
"Oh shit I didn't actually see your comment, and meant to respond to the guy you responded to lol. Yea a special sauce does make a difference huh.\n\nAm idiot, my b",
"Apparently, there are countless examples of various artists actually looking out for their fans in situations like this. Reddit is littered with them.",
"Instead of pointing a finger at the crew, who answer to the promoter or the production company and are not in the hierarchy of making decisions like you suggest, why not say \"fuck you\" to Live Nation, who is actually responsible for the inappropriate reaction to the medical emergency?",
"By continuing his show, it was a giant middle finger to the ambulance regardless",
"The Station video has fucked me up so bad. If I'm trying to go to sleep and think about the house catching in fire I can't sleep.",
"In-ears can hear whatever the board is putting out, which can easily include the sound engineer or anyone else with an input into the board.\nHe knew. He saw it and there was no way he wasn't told.",
"Why’s anyone even listen to this trash bag",
"His real name is Jacque Webster II.. lol, I’d prob go by something else too",
"well that's cringey as fuck",
"Ye i guess that does make it okay to act like a fucking animal biting and punching people trapped in the car while swerving it around.",
"and Travis has a huge male fan base that won't stop supporting him either. what's your point, Erawtik?",
"Everyone of authority who didn't immediately work to clear out the venue and tend to those injured and otherwise is responsible. To varying degrees. Every continuation of attempting to profit or sell a product when people were dead due to their actions is responsible. That includes Drake.",
"Were you replying to another post or did you seriously misread the post and thought he said young thug and Travis Scott sounded the same.",
"Cringiest comment I've ever read on here.",
"musics pretty dope",
"At a minimum you tell the crowd to make space for them. You then wait for them to be finished what they are doing to make sure the EMERGENCY SITUATION is all good.\n\nCause you know, that's what ambulances respond to. They are sent in when someone is in serious distress.\n\nWe are all taught to pull over when we see an ambulance to give them room and let them get to where they need to go. He didn't even tell the crowd to give them space. So yeah, fuck Travis.",
"Fuck this piece of shit.",
"On behalf of everyone who has ever worked on an ambulance 🖕🖕FUCK YOU",
"POS",
"God laughs at the face of the wicked",
"The nursing sub has a story from one of their members. She (I think) was crowd-surfed to the paramedic tent after she passed out. Woke up and had no idea what was going on, but kept seeing people in critical condition. She ended up telling the security she was an ICU nurse and they asked her to help. She was doing CPR and desperately trying to get supplies to help the people who were coming in unconscious. They had nothing as far as medical equipment. \n\n\nFucking. Actual. Nightmare.",
"Right? What he did is bad enough, there's no need to discredit yourself by making this shit up.",
"Is he confused, or is he just like in other videos in a trance of possesion?",
"When you see what kind of a person he is, you also shouldn't expect much from his fans",
"I mean, if people keep saying it it's not like I'm the only one.",
"I mean after a pause and recognizing there was an ambulance, there really is no difference if the middle finger bit was part of the show’s script or if it was organic (for lack of a better word). At that point continuing with the script is the same thing as organically giving the finger to the ambulance.",
"And way more talented than this piece of shit.",
"i listen to rap but this just sounds like absolute garbage",
"Idk Lando seems ok.",
"From what I hear the promoter clearly didn't give a damn and was cramming in double capacity to make up for lost profits from COVID. So yeah, plenty of blame to go around.",
"I can’t even watch the video OP posted knowing people are dying in the crowd. Just really disturbing",
"I nearly died at a Metallica show. Worst food poisoning ever. Both ends full throttle (no that's not a song title) and nearly fell in a lake. \n\nNot that I've contributed much to the discussion here. I've no idea who this Travis guy is or why no one is telling him there's problem. Are the telling him? He doesn't seem to have much idea. But some people have seen Green Day police their own shows so Travis did bad apparently. Glad we have real courts and not trial by reddit.",
"It’s a popular conspiracy that OJ is Khloe K’s dad",
"Mass murderers sitting in prison get love letters and marriage proposals.",
"When things like this happen isn't this when the Fire Marshall needs to step in? Does he/she fall under the Houston PD?",
"Negative, it's another girl pulling her top up to prevent a nip slip.",
"Ever notice comments from redditors like the clown you’re replying to are only ever said about black hip-hop artists? Funny how that works. Guy probably thinks music peaked when AC/DC released Thunderstruck, and the only rappers he likes are Eminem and Macklemore because they “keep it real”.",
"Cancel this motherfucker right now",
"Yeah that was literally my first time hearing about him. Just another POS degenerate loser being crowd funded by a bunch of other lovers who want to be like him . And if that's not the case, I hope his fan base stops supporting him. But I'm sure that's not going to happen",
"Travis scott had 50k people go to a single concert. Not naming him isn't going to make him less popular lmfao \n\n\nChris Brown sold like 400k tickets in 2019. You arent going to make him less famous.",
"A real man will not get “triggered” and then proceed to beat a woman to a pulp. Is he a child? Men have such low standards it makes me feel sick. I hate the toxicity that men bring to the world, and I don’t hate very many things. Chris was already so far up his ass he doesn’t live on the same plane as regular people. Nobody can defend him, he is a terrible human being.",
"It'd be even easier to assume if that person has been top 50 in streaming on Spotify probably since his last album came out which was 3 years ago. People are acting like this dude was a nobody because they don't leave their house. And that's coming from someone that doesn't leave their house",
"> hard time finding sponsors and fanbase. \n \nAmericans have a hard time remembering past two weeks. Trust me, he'll land on his feet somehow.",
"Think you're reaching a lot there and may be projecting some too...",
"\"Racism is abundant\" shows links to posts dug up from the controversial mass-downvoted comments",
"snoop dog was being investigated and facing a couple murder charges at one point, and nobody seems to care about that. he's like the nice old gangsta rapper now that everybody thinks is just a chill guy. he wasn't convicted, but you gotta wonder...",
"What a mother fing piece of sh-t!",
"Everyone gets the blame, Travis, organizers, security.\n\nAnd do you really need a video of Travis inciting the crowd? Hes famous for raging himself and his shows are clearly pretty wild.",
"While getting paid like $40k/yr at best with shit benefits it any.",
"You just mentioned Chris Brown on Reddit, your inbox will never recover.",
"he's been big in rap/hip-hop genre for like 5 years. he had a massive promotional deal with McDonalds like all last year.",
"Yes, his shows are wild, but there are no videos of him actually inciting the crowd, no one can produce said videos for some strange reason.",
"People say its a look of confusion, if u look at other videos from the event, to me that looks like a look of possesion.",
"Agree 100000000000%",
"$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$",
"I've been to a 100 EDM shows. All fun and everyone gave people space, except Steve Aoki show. I was at the front and my rib cage was crush against the fence. Fucking sucked.",
"It was a golf cart with flashing lights. I've worked hundreds of large festivals over the years as security and it happens constantly.",
"LMAO HIS FANS LOVE HIM STILL",
"Also remember he has dozens of people around him boosting him up trying to stay on his payroll.",
"The cops did a good job of escorting Kylie Jenner out of danger.",
"I once saw Diplo continue playing unfazed thru a fist fight that cleared out the club dancefloor. For that reason amongst many others, he deserves an honorable mention.",
"Cajun and chili were really really good",
"He plays drums for a new pop punk band with will Smith's daughter.",
"What a smooth-brained bag of shit",
"Metal and rock. Different fans obviously.",
"This is only boosting his reach.",
"How the fuck is that music?",
"/r/jesuschristreddit",
"Then they didn’t have an effective way to communicate in emergencies making the venue more at fault, only further agreeing with my first comment that we should be careful blaming Travis completely because the venture shares some blame too. They allowed him to keep playing 30+ min after it was declared a MCI. Yes you’re right Idk where that line is. That for people like you to decide. Guess you found your right trade, arguing over the tiniest detail.",
"What an absolute fucking scumbag. Also, in rich entitled fashion, thinks he can just pay for the funerals of these poor fucks who died and escape any real responsibility for his actions. So sick and tired of these entitled little bitches using money to justify their shitty behavior and persona. Clearly saw the ambulance and doesn't give two shits.",
"We're talking about Travis Scott, not a normal functioning human being.",
"I’d never heard of Travis Scott before yesterday but everything I’m seeing is indicating this guy is a straight up sociopath.",
"\"saw ambulance came in, tell people to middle finger it\"\n\ndouchbag lowlife would be douchbag lowlife, nothing can change",
"Lol... This dude is FUCKED...",
"I've been to 500+ metal / hardcore / punk shows over the last 25+ years.. from little basement shows to international festivals. Every single time someone goes down, others pick them up. Every single time someone gets knocked out or collapses and is unresponsive the music stops, the lights come up, and the crowd parts like the Red Sea to allow the medical staff to do their thing.",
"No. Don't assume that.\n Ever.",
"Any chance this POS will serve time because of this? The more that comes out about him the larger my disgust and anger becomes.",
"First I see him spitting on a fan and telling people to beat him up and I hear of him not caring about people dying in front of him what an ass",
"Can we put him in prison or something?",
"He belongs in the trash.",
"Ok maybe I'm looking into it too much, but there's a girl wearing a loose top at one point, also yelling for help. It looks like someone tries to keep her boobs covered, then someone immediately reaches up and runs their hand across her chest. I'm glad I've never heard of this trash, this culture, and I feel truly sorry for the people that got caught up in this.",
"Its a whole ritual, people say \"he wasnt aware\" proving people are fucking idiots, there is videos of him laughing while a ton of people at the front is screaming for help, there are videos of him watching someone get CPR for seconds straight. \n\nJust look at the setting, its fire, a portal, \"see ya on the other side\", there is a video mid show and its not even music playing, its like a funeral piano but more grim and the stage looks like literal hell.",
"Yeah I don't really go to rap concerts I guess, maybe this type of thing is more common there",
"That is why I only go to [Asian concerts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8AOKs2jk_k). They figure this shit out a long time ago.",
"I will never forget that video. Every time I do, I regret having watched it. It's horrifying, and I can't imagine being in that situation. Truly nightmarish.",
"Same, except I only heard of him because PCGamer wrote an article about the concert he did in Fortnite. Given my distaste for Epic Games and Fortnite I didn't even care to look up who that singer was. Much like you I'm glad I didn't look into it further.",
"Side note but why do rappers as of lately all look inbred as fuck. Like that’s the new style?",
"Are we cancelling Travis Scott? I don’t really care I guess, I’m just asking. This mostly seems like tabloid BS that’s instead been posted on the internet following the deaths at a concert of his. I don’t really care about that either, I just think that most people like Travis Scott like him for his music not his very likely stupid opinions and offensive manner of carrying himself. This all just seems like you guys are acting like a bunch of incredulous karens.",
"I honestly don’t know why people here are so proud of their ignorance and being philistines. \n\nI don’t know who Young Thug is, but by pure logic, he’s a rapper and the poster is using this rapper to say you’re an idiot for saying all these rapper sound the same. \n\nIt’s not rocket science, my man. Also, just because you don’t listen to rap, doesn’t mean you’re in some higher plane of existence. It just means you aren’t in touch with popular culture.",
"To make it even more confusing, Travis Barker is dating Kourtney Kardashian, while Travis Scott is in a relationship with Kylie Jenner, Kourtney's sister.",
"That's horrifying.",
"I remember when that happened and the thirsty Twitter thots were still proclaiming their love for him with tweets saying they would let him beat the shit out of them and stuff. Insane...",
"What a terrible song",
"He’s clearly said it to calm the crowd. A lot of artists do this. Look at the crowds response when it happens, complete silence",
"Sweet chili and Cajun seasonings. They were good sauces.",
"The key is to come out with a (or in this case another) documentary where he spends an hour showcasing his very edited but difficult upbringing that lead to his bad decision making and earning the worlds sympathy.",
"I've been in a crush situation and that's what happened. It was at an Incubus concert of all places (Post-hardcore Incubus). Nothing stopped, I had to go to into full elbow mode to clear a few people for a few seconds to pick a small woman off the ground and then create a cage with my arms to get her out.\n\nThat was when I decided I was never going to a concert again without having an actual seat. No more standing room for me.",
"The wife and I walked through Rockefeller Plaza years ago to see the Christmas tree lit up at night. It was *packed* shoulder to shoulder. You couldn't move laterally or backwards if you'd wanted to. There aren't many things that would send me into a panic attack, but that came close. I can't imagine being in a crowd like this at a concert.",
"\"Put your middle fingers up,\" has been the hip hop version of, \"Put your hands in the air,\" for decades. You aren't literally flipping someone or something off.",
"I find it incredibly hard to believe that nobody was in his monitors telling him there was a problem",
"I actually have enjoyed and supported Travis for years now.. sad to say I can’t defend any ounce of what he did, and I hope for the goodness of being a kind human being, he can step up and take all the responsibility, bullshit, backlash and consequences that come with the decision he made to ignore numerous red flags. Shit sucks. Fans that paid for tickets to support HIM and deserved to be there as much as anyone else are now gone for good because of his negligence and the intensely disappointing behavior from his fans. Yikes.\n\nI hope he suffers repercussions to learn a lesson on giving a fuck once in a while.",
"\nIf you pause when the camera pans down around the first 10 seconds, you can see this guys face beneath the crowd:\n\n https://i.imgur.com/EXT5Hfu.jpg",
"Oh great you used tools to dig up racist comments that are otherwise not visible.\n\nYou proved me wrong. \n\nEVERYONE MUST BE TALKING ABOUT IT!!!\n\nYour first link isn't even about race. Its about BLM. You can criticize the BLM movement without being racist.",
"Find out as much a you can about them and let people around them know this is the kind of person they are.",
"I saw one on instagram where a young man's lifeless body is being carried off in the crowd, that image hasn't left me.",
"i don't understand why they don't just do a wide rollout? I guess it's easier said than done with such a massive chain from a supply chain standpoint, but I personally would order more nuggets if they had the sauce",
"They're at a rap concert, calling them absolute morons is redundant.",
"Where is this happening?",
"That video is the worst video I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen some gory stuff. I was messed up for days and I wish I never watched it. I felt and still feel devastated for all the people trapped in that fire and their loved ones. Very sad.",
"It’s already spelled out in my comment chief. The lengths that people will go to stay a fan to a piece of human trash baffles me. Clear enough for you?",
"Off drugs",
"The burning fenix\n\nHis album cover\n\nThe look of the stage and overall setting, fire, a portal\n\n\"See ya on the other side\" \n\nThe look of possesion as he watches people get carried away out cold\n\nEverything about this show was demonic, hes worshipping satan or sold his soul.",
"think they mean so many chances as in the stage manager, sound engineer, literally anyone on the crew should have cut audio and told Scott to stop performing/get the fuck off stage while they deal with the emergency\n\nnot sure what the procedures were for this crew but in the theatre I work in you can bet that the moment the front of house manager lets the stage manager know there’s a medical emergency in the audience, we’re stopping the show until they’ve got help.",
"I’m willing to bet a good amount of his fans are due to the Jenner/Kardashian connection.",
"Whoa whoa, I know a ton of Asian kids that were hit by their parents. And I get that in white culture that's a no-no in every case, but there's a difference between beating your kids to actually harm them, and a slap that is used to discipline. I know it's a touchy topic and I probably won't get anywhere in changing people's opinion on the topic, but I hope people realize that beating your kids isn't just a black and white situation",
"No man, Randy TRAVIS.\n/s",
"MC Hammer made millions and lost it all when everyone moved to gangsta rap. Rap doesn't care about the past. The song \"(Rock) Superstar\" by Cyrus Hill is the truth.",
"dude is high af",
"Yeah before all this I just thought he was a type of hamburger or something.",
"What s nice fella. \n\n/S",
"It’s hip-hop.. he isn’t always rapping.",
"Dude watching Lizzo gush over him made me never be able to listen to her lie about being women positive and body positive. Super disgusting.",
"Travis Scott was almost certainly high as fuck. At least some of his audience have a conscience it seems.",
"It only counts if you're pretending to be very busy whenever your boss walks by.",
"I mean ribs don't grow on trees.",
"They are being paid to applaud.",
"Teenagers are delusional.\n\nAlso, I don't think it's too far of a stretch to suggest that people who try to excuse abusive behavior have been abused. It can be hard to recognize abuse when it's happening to you.",
"The answer could be 42…",
"Pretty easy to jump to the conclusion that there is literally no justifiable reason for him to have beat the shit out of her.",
"\"don't bring up your opinions about his music then...\"\n\nOnly you are the wise one, permitted to give your opinions about music?",
"Definitely not. Eminem rose to superstar status in the 90's, Kanye was producing in the 90's as a youngin' but College Dropout debuted in the early 2000's around the time Travis Scott's fanbase was being born. Kendrick was selling his music on the streets in the early 2000's and rose to fame in 2010. Eminem is a Gen X'er like me, with the other 2 being Millennials. \n\nI think my first exposure to Eminem was Soundbombing II and then he immediately came out with Slim Shady and blew up. I really did enjoy Kanye when he first blew up too and then shit just got weird. I remember hearing about Kendrick when I was working in Compton and thinking that he was going to go places fast. \n\nI was a teenager that went to A LOT of hip hop shows in L.A. in the 90's and as a crusty old lady I always tell younger generations there will never be another era in hip hop like those years.",
"And yet that's all I hear about him...",
"Also worth noting that everything from the initial sparks to the pile of bodies at the doorway happens within a few minutes and the camera keeps rolling the whole time. It is a very surreal video, and definitely not for the faint of heart.",
"Michael Jackson diddled a ton of little kids and my post will get down voted by people who still believe him vs 10 kids.",
"Accusing people of being shut-ins has lost a lot of teeth after the last 18 months.",
"Yeah, that ambulance could be there for any number of reasons. Maybe it was an ice cream ambulance. Maybe it just took a wrong turn and ended up in the middle of a giant concert. Who's to say?\n\nSeriously, ambulances are significantly taller than the tallest person at that concert, and even if you can't hear the sirens, you can see the lights. Any reasonable person knows exactly why an ambulance is there.",
"At this point, who's being convinced he's a shitheel versus giving this fuck more exposure?\n\n\n\n\nYou aren't going to convince his trash fans still defending him with this no more than you're convincing fans of Steven Tyler that he's a pedo piece of shit.",
"It's new to me, and I ashamedly laughed.",
"A lot of people on Reddit Seem to care about Them, Judging by How often they get mentioned",
"I saw them just scrolling, your idea would have been way easier. And I’m referring to all of Reddit.",
"The emergency at hand is one thing but surviving the panic is another. Exits will be overflowed, people will be trampled. Everyone always says to keep calm in an emergency and it’s so, so insanely important. Unfortunately staying calm is the last thing on people’s minds and a crowd will turn to a survival mode flight stampede in a second. But yes, know your exits. I recommend finding the ones everyone didn’t walk in through because that will be the first one everyone else instinctively goes to, and therefore will be clogged fastest. Once it’s clogged then injuries happen and it gets even uglier and even slower. If you’re able to keep your mind working then take a second and go to the exit you wouldn’t think to go to first",
"Oh wow, thanks for thinking I’m beyond human, but no. I merely died and went to hell and now I’ve redeemed myself and I’m going home. No hard feelings really. It’s all a choice after all, I was just tired of living in a reality where everyone was me. \n\nLiterally everything I did to anyone else I was just doing to myself. Once I decided to start treating the other versions of me better within my subjective hell I caught the attention of something in the 4th dimension and it’s helping me resonate out of this crap that we’ve all created together.",
"Its literally in the video..\n\n\"I wanna make this ground shake god damnit\" \n\nI dont know why you are asking for videos of him inciting the crowd, its obvious during a consert especially a Travis Scott consert that he will hype them up and make them go crazy, if you find footage of the actual show and not people trying not to die im sure you will see plenty of inciting.",
"Holy crap...",
"only women though, right?",
"Yeah I think best case scenario it was part of the script but you have to be pretty fucking stupid to stay on script after seeing that.",
"they’re definitely all gen x/millennial artists, kendrick’s popularity with gen z is partly due to tiktok(where people dance to his songs without realizing what he’s rapping about)",
"I'm guessing German autocorrect",
"Have you been to mamy concerts? Ambulances are just there. Its not an unusual occurance.",
"Oh, I'm always pretending to be busy.",
"On that note, I wanted to ask - been to a zillion shows, but I kind of avoid the mosh crowd type of stuff. I read on here and elsewhere about the mosh culture and how kind they are.. but on the few times I’ve actually been in one, it’s people throwing haymakers and kicking - no brotherhood stuff there. I watched a guy once, I swear catch a punch that I’m pretty sure crushed his orbital socket. \n\nGranted, these were wild wild shows back in the late 90’s - maybe things have changed, but I wanted no part in that stuff - even as a relatively big guy that has been in countless fights and can handle myself.",
"Ha! You're right!\n\nI was being semi sarcastic about my 2nd sentence. ;)",
"Definitely the Producer, and/or House/Stage manager should've stopped the show. \n\nBut then again, this venue probably didn't have a proper stage/house manager and producer probably didn't give a duck",
"Just going to throw out myself as an example here. I don't listen to anything popular, not trying to be a hipster here but I just prefer more niche genres of music. So for me the only reason I know about him is from his fortnite concert and mc donalds deal. Now lets go to a fantasy world where neither of those things happened. I would have never known who this guy was. Just because something is popular and in a top 50 list somewhere doesn't mean everyone knows about it. Some people just don't care at all about things other people enjoy.",
"I didn’t sort by anything, I just scrolled through and saw them. And I’m just referring to this one post. Reddit sucks, and there’s racists everywhere. Not just in the public posts you can see. Ask any colored people that post cosplay what kind of DMs they get.",
"That's right. I was thinking one was roasted garlic for some reason.",
"Wow it’s been a while since I heard that song.",
"That is one that still gets under my skin. The evidence was overwhelming- there is no doubt it happened and yet a bunch of people give him a pass",
"Ok well I hope your find a good therapist.",
"You just spoke for a majority of people, thank you",
"Giving the finger to them doesn't mean shit if it doesn't affect their ability to help the person. \n\nIt was a shitshow, no need to fixate on the middle finger. The indifference is what matters.",
"What an asshole",
"you're on reddit dude.\n\nyou're a redditor, don't be a pickme\n\nbut yeah, still, fuck those commentors",
"I remember watching a short documentary that explained the psychology behind the phenomenon, but for the life of me I can't remember what the reason is.",
"And the tik tok voice introducing the video makes it even more surreal",
"Got me in the first half.",
"True. Was in a Foo Fighters concert and people were getting rowdy and they stopped the music and told the people to calm the fuck down. Those who are doing this for too long knows whats up",
">and it’s not like he gets live feedback from concert staff while he’s performing. \n\nDafuq? He most definitely is. In-ear monitors allow for custom audio mixes that are tailored to each performer. One of the benefits is that back of house and front of house can have a feed to the IEMs for communication.",
"Just another dogshit person, like trump, who has dogshit fans and they can’t be persuaded otherwise. There comes a point in your life where you realize about half of the people around you are just plain dogshit. It’s sad but inevitable",
"Satanists don’t encourage violence from what I thought? They are usually pretty helpful people that are atheists, right?",
"eli5 what's a wave break",
"Diplo has a history of being a piece of shit too so he definitely deserves a mention. The dude groomed and threatened minors.",
"I was playing football recently and heard an ambulance pass nearby from our turf and my heart just dropped. I couldn't play properly for a few minutes all the while hoping that the person might be okay.\n\nI can't imagine someone being so un-empathetic about such a situation, let alone after seeing it happen in front of their eyes in their own concert.",
"He has more than cash and influence, he has Kris Jenner PR damage control. When has anyone in or surrounding that family had to deal with any real consequences of their actions?",
"A performer who is aware of a safety issue happening should 100% be responsible for stopping the show.\n\nBUT -- there should be backup systems in case the performer isn't aware, or isn't doing what they need to do. There should be someone else who can take over and ensure safety.",
"Alright I'm on it, get back to me in 5 years.",
"Wonder how Fortnite feels. I'm guessing his skins are never gonna be released again. A bunch of kids are going to make bank selling their accounts.",
"Has #CancelTravis trended yet? LMFAO he really fucked himself this time",
"I work EDC, LiB, Punk Rock Bowling, and other less famous festivals almost every year. It is a constant occurrence at any music festival. You're probably just too preoccupied to notice if it doesn't happen right in front of you.\n\nEdit: In fact, rap is really the only genre I don't work festivals for because they're pretty few and far between.",
"That sounds really good, though.",
"i’m not white. there’s nothing to project. \n\ndefending racists is an ugly look.",
"Randy Travis is just Travis Tritt after a few drinks.",
"Idk man, that's like trying to explain any whack fandom.",
"This “music” is terrible.",
"Having seems Travis’s show before, I’m pretty sure that’s part of his show. He doesn’t say anything about flipping off the ambulance particularly , he would have said, duck the ambulance or something. \n\nBut the fact that he didn’t do something after seeing an ambulance in his crowd is still fucked up. I’ve seen the videos and man they are scary and straight fucked. He should’ve stopped the show. That does fall on him.",
"He might lose a few casual fans. But his die hard will support him. They already are",
"I'm too depressed to? Like I have it on Disney and could play it at any time but heard all the nonsense that went on in it and just can't. I feel like Vito Corleone \"Look how they massacred my boy.\"",
"Jesus christ *again*? \n\n\nThat's a machine-gunning of conjecture. \n\n\nI'm not the one who brought up this guy. \nSomeone said \"You said this about him\", I said \"Who?\" \nIt's not like I came knocking on his door to congratulate myself for not having heard of someone. It was just a mundane, germane response to what he said.",
"Bro people saying his career is over are dumb lol.\n\nThis dude is now immortalized among his fans for literally killing people with his popularity. \n\nIt’s a shitty world we live in.",
"Wait what I honestly don't get your point lol \n\nI'm white but grew up in Mormon Utah and it was incredibly similar to the posts I read on asianparentstories. But then there are white parents who beat the shit out of their kids drunkenly and senselessly, parents who lightly slap them like once in their life, ones who don't touch them at all.... I still don't get what you're saying though",
"Also, Bassnectar.",
"There was that plane that blew up a few years ago and people died because some people were more concerned about their bags. I'm sure some of those people still felt like they did nothing wrong.\n\nHumans fucking suck",
">\tWe shouldn’t expect the performer on stage, who is only trained to do what he’s doing (that being sing and entertain) to suddenly become a mind reader and know to stop the show.\n\n\nWTF does this even mean?\n\nI agree with him not getting the blame, but I’m pretty sure an adult man knows that ambulances trying to get to the front of your show is a bad thing. This doesn’t take mind reading skills or special training that an entertainer doesn’t get. A child would be able to figure this out.",
"With a Scotts Tots themed toy.",
"Yeah for the daughters. It's the husband's that catch the fallout. She is great at PR but also great at reputation destruction..he is already in DMG control. Refund all the money and cancel shows plus a BS apology. I imagine this is the last show he does for awhile.",
"The fuck? How am I fixating on it? And even if I was it’s a valid talking point: it’s a perfect example of his indifference and willful negligence to act professionally and humanely.\n\nAnd yes, it most definitely did have an impact on aid being rendered. Him choosing to continue on with the show (after pausing and acknowledging the situation) is pretty shit, but he doubled down by also encouraging the crowd to also disregard the situation.",
"My point is not to take responsibility away from Travis Scott.\n\nIt's that we shouldn't even has a system where we soley rely on the performer to ensure crowd safety. Yes, they are responsible legally and ethically to stop the show when they become aware of a safety issue and it's laudable when they do. BUT if they don't do the right thing — for whatever reason — their PA gets yanked within seconds and a fire marshal tells everyone what to do. And that this setup should be a requirement for even getting an event permit over a certain capacity.",
"Regardless of how much he knew about what was really going on, if anyone was talking in his ear about the situation etc, how can you see an ambulance navigating through a crowd at YOUR SHOW and *not say something into the microphone about it in some kind of basic attempt at crowd control.* At the *very least*, he could have said 'hey, let them through'. And then he just continues performing while there is an emergency vehicle in the crowd.",
"Not trying to pick a fight but I’ve been to a lot of metal shows and I’ve seen crowds be absolute dicks towards each other and sexually assaulting women who crowd surf.",
"Reasons why I’m glad my kids don’t play that garbage Game. Travis Scott talks about drugs and sex. I wouldn’t want kids listening to that garbage",
"> But blaming him alone is fucking moronic.\n\nI have become hyper aware of propaganda campaigns on reddit. You are hitting all the fucking high notes of the same shit I've seen posted about a dozen times since I sat down in the past hour. \n\nBullshit. Travis Scott is 100% culpable of manslaughter. He is solely responsible for how that crowd behaved.",
"Autotune was invented in the 90's by a research scientist, and it was originally sonically designed for the oil & gas industry. It was repurposed to correct musical pitches once they realized it sounded interesting and funny. Cher used it first in \"Believe\" which was a hit, and is the one who popularized it, not T-Pain as others have claimed. Matter of fact, T-Pain discovered it by listening to J-Lo, who got it from Cher.\n\nInitially some people (we'll say even talented singers) used it because it was different and unique. However, given it's original purpose was to correct pitch mistakes, it was eventually co-opted by a wider, far-less-talented audience who realized they could sing like total shit and have it come out sounding OK (if awkward and tacky) thanks to the digital magic. Again, not any different from an \"autoplaying\" piano that would fix any wrong notes you hit.\n\nBecause mass-audiences are always fed dog-shit by media companies and told it's steak, people started calling talent-less people \"geniuses\" for using easy-click loop-daddy music production software along with samples and autotune to let the computer do the work and disguise the fact that they aren't capable musicians or singers. Basically akin to calling someone a \"talented graphic artist\" for using a smartphone camera filter.\n\nI get art and music is subjective. And people can do whatever they want and call it art. But this thread chain started because someone up top was upset that people aren't sufficiently bowing down to the genius musical artist \"Travis Scott\" and all his masterful musical achievements and talent, when musical \"talent\" actually plays little to no role in anything Travis Scott does. He's good at PR, good at creating brands, good at being exciting on stage, I guess. But the dude is in no way a talented musician, and autotune's popularity, these days, is a product of people who can't sing wanting to be musicians, not some refined artist styling.",
"Europe has festivals exponentially bigger with nothing ever resulting in this. \n\nEurope has learned from their mistakes and don't fuck around with their crowd control. I'd only consider going to a European festival. Maybe Australian too but fuck that's hot.",
"He's not black...he's OJ.",
"Them too of course. But any motherfucker in the chain could have muted, stopped running cues etc and that’s my current point.\n\nOf course Live Nation is also responsible, that’s not even a question.",
"Ok grandpa, let's get you to bed now.",
"\"the show must go on\"",
"This is how every hip hop show i've ever been to and I cannot understand it. I think some of these people havent actually been to a legit rock concert so they don't understand how absolutely awful what they are listening to is. There's good hiphop out there but live it's comically bad.",
"What’s his problem",
"Hopefully",
"well, when they claim its just an act, you expect a human being be a human being.",
"Damn bruh, I thought this concert was for travis scott not juice WRLD.",
">He is a low IQ human\n\nDumb comment that shouldn't be upvoted, his IQ has nothing to do here",
"It stops momentum of the wave so it can’t run all the way from the back to the front of a crowd. Just strategically placed barriers through the area. Not sure their exact name but a few venues have them.",
"I genuinely can't understand how you can have an ambulance driving through the crowd and not even pause the show. That is just so completely nuts. I know there are a host of issues contributing to this but that really stands out to me to show no one responsible for the festival gave the slightest fuck.",
"One time I was in LA having dinner with my family and I saw Travis Scott at the restaurant we were at. I was looking over at him to see if it was actually him and he caught me looking. We locked eyes for about 10 seconds, testing to see who would look away first. I eventually gave in. I see him whisper something to the waitress who then immediately goes into the kitchen. 20 minutes later our food arrives and we all begin to eat. The food was delicious, I had some salmon. We had a lovely dinner and tipped the waitress well. It was a good night.",
"You riding Travis Scott’s dick heavy rn, get a life 😂",
"For fucks sake you dumbass… facial expressions are a thing you wet blanket.",
"Hip hop artists have to go pretty damn far to get any real backlash\n\nWhen your music genre is made up of artists singing about their plight as excuses for why it's OK to do/sell drugs, steal and murder what is it to them to beat a woman or be nonchalant about fans dying in a crowd? Nothing.",
"This has nothing to do with \"gangster culture\"",
"Exxxxactly what I thought! This guy is a Big McCancelled",
"Seems?",
"He is Kylie Jenner’s significant other and the whole Kardashian circle seems a bit detached from reality.",
"He will get Chris Browned.",
"Sadly some people will use this concert as bragging rights. Telling everyone they know that they were there and how wild it was probably calling it an awesome night.",
"I like almost every kind of music, but I just can't imagine how anyone finds this appealing.",
"Wait YouTube built in tiktok now?",
"Hmmm talented probs not. Probably not as much of an asshole though.",
"She's a sneaky bastard and has probably washed her hands of this entire shit show, but her company, tri star sports and entertainment also coordinates big events. \nWhatever company coordinated this is partially responsible because there was nowhere near enough space to accommodate that many people at this event.",
"The thing about this festival is it is Travis’ festival and I’m assuming that means it’s all his guys putting it on\n\nThis isn’t a 3rd party show really so I think the buck still stops with Travis in this case",
"Do you think they meant “you don’t leave the house” or do you think they meant “you don’t socialize”?",
"God bless the insurance companies!",
"I don’t think he can be blamed without a doubt for misconduct on stage. Overall it is his show so he bears responsibility, but not so much for his actions during the performance itself but rather the organization beforehand. In simple terms he should have planned this better. More fences, more security, more preparation and contingency plans. It is his show so at least he needs to pick the right people to prepare it. It turned into a disaster so he bears full responsibility for that and there probably was negligence. \n\nDuring the show his job is not security. Its also not keeping an eye out for trouble. He was clearly confused in the video. People passing out at concerts is not uncommon. It happened since the Beatles. \nThis was a relatively dark venue. How far can he realistically see? Some people shouted “stop the show” while others kept celebrating. That is confusing. I saw at least 3 videos were he was concerned for the crowd and mentions it. There must be hundreds of people working at the venue, so he could have a realistic expectation to get notified about trouble of this scale. If a mass casualty event was so clear why didn’t the rest of the audience notice? Only those involved noticed. It was a messy situation. So I cannot blame him for his actions on stage, but surely for planning this event.",
"It has a lot to do it.",
"I had to scroll down 15 comments to find this one that doesn't shit on Travis and another 10 to find the [next one](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpiiwf/travis_scott_clearly_sees_the_ambulance_and_then/hjut1pq).\n\nReddit be hiveminding.",
"Eminem, J cole, Logic, are pretty damn good live. You can easily tell who studio rappers are vs real ones",
"It's odd that people are acting like he isnt famous, as some sort of badge of honor for not knowing of him",
"Let’s not equate horrible human behavior to the fiction of demon possession",
"Is this at Astrofest?",
"Im sorry but im pretty sure people are on like crazy drugs at these shows all the time? How was he supposed to know how serious the situation is beforehand? But nah lets just all bash on him cus its reddit and reddit hates anyone thats rich.",
"This isn’t what the argument was about though. The original comment said he’s only popular due to the recent chaos. That just isn’t true. He has been popular for nearly 10 years, and wildly popular since his last album release.",
"Lol the guy who was in jail and no one in the rap community wants to touch because he sntiched.\n\nI never got this \"lol who?\" type comment, are y'all trying to look cool or get some kind of cred because you don't like the same popular thing? It happens almost anytime something like this happens \"heh, George Lucas? Never even heard of the guy, kids are cringe\"",
"He sees an ambulance. Waits 30 seconds before yelling for everyone to make the ground shake. \n\nIt doesn’t matter if he didn’t know the exact circumstances. That’s not a time to incite a crowd to go wild.",
"The fact that every person in the crowd hears his voice - him not helping and telling people to stop is just beyond ludicrous.",
"If you don’t think that there is a line of communication that exists between emergency services, venue/event staff of the tour promoter, and the tour manager and back of house crew for the artist then you are willfully ignorant. How do you think shit goes down when the safety of the performer is at risk? If there was a threat to TS then he would get notified in is IEM and stage crew/security would intervene.\n\nWatch the video again. He’s most definitely getting communicated *something* in his IEMs while he stands on stage like a moron not doing anything to help the situation.\n\nEdit: the fact that you called the crew that makes live music events function “producers” tells me you know nothing about that which you are trying to discuss.",
"Jesus! I wasn’t aware of any of that stuff and know nothing of his work, I just know there some evil people out there this looked and sounds like it.",
"I remembered him from the shoe thing on social media a few years ago but as someone who has played music since age 4, appreciates broad musical styles from baroque to trance, and has an actual degree in music; I’ve never knowingly listened to a Travis Scott song and couldn’t recognize any of his work. Love 90s hip hop tho.",
"Kanye? Never heard of the guy, is he popular or something? /s",
"I want a piece of that action too. \n\nRemindMe! 70 years",
"I'm sure the next day she was saying \"omg I was there. I can't believe it. My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families affected\"",
"Im just saying, the burning of a fenix, the look of the stage, fire, a portal, \"see ya on the other side\", the almost funeral music playing midshow while people are suffocating to death, the entire setting was very demonic.",
"It really isn't, read the police report. He tried to choke her to death and she escaped by clawing at his eyes. She also had severe head injuries that could have caused brain damage or internal bleeding. It's no exaggeration to say \"nearly\" but keep defending this monster.",
"Not really. He's an asshole, but he is a very talented producer. Travis tritt is a bit of a has-been.",
"Do you think it matters, when the gist of their statement is 'you aren't aware of the same popular media that I am therefore you're not keeping up with society'? \n\nThe statement is arrogant and wrong no matter how you choose to parse it. It also happens that their chosen analogy is pretty denigrating for simply not slavishly following the billboard charts for the last half decade, on top of being topically irrelevant because we all literally didn't leave the house for a year and a half.",
"Lmao 😂",
"racists get so mad when they’re called out on their racism and bigotry.",
"See flashing lights (ambulance) fuck the police.. lol just shows u that u don’t have to be smart to be a millionaire. And I’ll go an extra mile with this, Ive never cared much for Scott’s music. Go ahead and downvote. Haters will be haters and ignorant ppl will always be ignorant. No race discrimination attached. Stupid I even have to clarify that..",
"Exactly. He was clueless in this situation. His gross negligence happened in the months leading towards this event where the planning was so bad that this situation could arise in the first place.",
"What part of this video leads you to believe that?",
"Yes he sucks as a human being but a damn good rapper.",
"I don't like Travis and no I don't condone what has happen but take a step back and look at the [people going to the concert](https://youtu.be/9W_njKnR6Q0) none of them have any regard for one another. That deserves some of the blame, 8 people died and I 've only seen the video of the girl asking the camera man to stop the show. Yet here I sit thinking I would have acted any differently in that situation, why were there not help stations positioned in corners of the area? Why were so many people oblivious to the ways to get help. I feel bad for the folks that lost their lives and the loved ones who have to suffer but I think the superior focus on Travis defeats the objective of a safe environment.",
"Some people really need church. Sorry Reddit.",
"Gonna be an expensive finger Mr douche.",
"The fuck are you talking about \"asked for it?\" Are you trying to imply that she did something to deserve being beaten half to death?",
"dumb asshole should be dead instead of the other dumb assholes who thought he was something worth dying for",
"When you order something named a Mc Sweetie that does make you a McBitch...",
"What a piece of shit! And if someone still defends him, fuck them too.",
"What's squid game? Heh never seen it I'm so quirky",
"He got his baby mama to fall back on. Kylie has a networth of 700 million, and apparently a single post from her on insta is 1.2 million dollars. They will be fine.",
"Time for this POS, to take some responsibility for this. Maybe cancel culture should go for him",
"How can we know the sound guys even knew about this? It was a fuck up for sure.",
"its been littered with them in the last few days specifically to shame travis scott",
"True. and most people are stupid.",
"You’re a shitty troll",
"It's just an anecdotal story but also considering all the anecdotes of women saying \"I'd let him beat me\" it's highly unlikely.",
"I remember this. And then Little Jon ran over to the turntables to do the “drop” because Aoki just left it looping while running around throwing cakes like a clown would",
"Don’t say die hard fan bro, he only has 8",
"Straight to prison.",
"Your last line of your previous post says people claim it's no big deal that their parents hit them and victim blame others who may have been victims of abusive parenting. I wanted to point out that not every kid that was hit by their parents was necessarily abused. It sounded like you were generalizing all kids who have been hit by their parents into one group.",
"Heard an interview from a Houston music critic who was at the venue. He said Travis has fans who say that his music, message, whatever gave them purpose in life. It gave these fans a reason to live. I have absolutely no idea how you can be so impressionable that one artist shapes your life. I like music as much as the next and have my favorite bands. But never has one made me feel like I have purpose in life…. The critic thought that since Travis has achieved this he’ll continue to do fine with that fan base.",
"He won’t be forgotten in a year. He’s a big deal.",
"Not a Travis Scott fan and looking back he could’ve done more but I agree, this is probably the most reasonable take I’ve read on the situation",
"THANK YOU \n\n\nHave you seen how many people have been having a go at me for saying I'd never heard of Young Thug, like I'm being really smug and hipster and braggy about it? \n\n\n*Like I'M the one who brought him up.*",
"And a lot less clothes afterwards, according to police",
"its been a while since i listened to that band ;__; i watched Blurry Eyes next",
"Right, wasn’t commenting on your posts for that reason. I was giving an example of how easy it is to not know a top 50 artist which was being used as a point here.",
"The person filming this and the crowd clearly didn't care either",
"So what's your excuse for him telling the crowd to flip off the ambulance people? Poor organisation and communication, yes but let's not pretend Travis did nothing wrong here. \n\nYou give lots of excuses for this piece of shit and it seems like the only reason you're doing it is to show that you're a special person who isn't on the internet hate train.",
"As someone who went to a lot of metal/hardcore shows I've seen countless gigs stopped with the band telling people to stop creating waves/crushing. I've seen bands walk off until the crowd chills out. \n\nThis sadly is an example of someone with 0 crowd control or respect for their audience. The other factor is it was an all-ages gig, so you have young kids in there who have 0 understanding of when they should be getting out of a bad mosh pit.",
"It didn't look so bad to me at first. As I've seen on other threads, possibly the middle fingers to the sky, hands up, could have been a tactic to keep the crowd engaged and calm, but then he drops the beat and starts rapping, and I can't understand what he was thinking.",
"Up until a couple of days ago I really didn't know who this was and the more I read about him the more I realize how big of a piece of shit he is",
"Sounds like the organizer also shoulders a lot of the blame for the unsafe conditions, let's see who that was...\n\nCreating dangerous crowd situations is literally part of his brand and it resulted in kids getting killed this time, that's why people are so focused on him",
"That's exactly what a Stan is",
"This man is so ultra fucked.",
"yes",
"God damn dude",
"Why do you think it’s a middle finger to the ambulance? It’s a common thing at his shows and other artist’s shows.",
"I don’t think it’s unreasonable to resent the success of someone like Travis Scott. He’s a thug, a trouble maker and let’s be honest here. If this was in a time before auto tune was created he wouldn’t have that success. He’s a joke and it’s completely normal to resent successful jokes.",
"I am waiting for Nike to drop his ass",
"and DaBaby",
"I paid money to play the carnival games and eat the food. Again You obviously never been to a FESTIVAL 😂",
"i did. hes honestly a pretty good rapper/producer, shame it ended up like this. dude was super influential and also very good at what he did. at least, except for setting up concerts. very disappointed. cant ever listen to any song of his anymore without thinking about it. probably for the best that im not listening to his music anymore though, i dont wanna support this shit",
"Apparently the more you rise in fame the less you‘re to blame…",
"Him and every one else that is there seem pretty terrible. Even tho Travis and the crew are right to blame, the people who caused all that mayhem should be as well.",
"I hate crowdsurfing! I went to a concert where the singer decided to crowd surf! Everyone of course ran to grab him. I’m a small person and when that happened I was being swayed with the crowd, I honestly thought I would die and was close to tears. \n\nI can’t imagine what these people went through, it breaks my heart…",
"He directly told his audience to rush the event and not listen to security or emergency services, verbatim. He has been convicted of inciting a riot in the past. \n\nThat is not his job. No performer should do that. That is not a common thing in live performance and trying to state it is shows that it is you who are ignorant vs the average Redditor particpating in the discussion on this subject.\n\nHe also is the event hoster/promoter, it's quite literally also part of his job to ensure there is proper security or that someone in his entourage is handling it.\n\nIt literally is on him in all respects both as a performer and promoter.",
"And yet this will blow over in a few months and people will still love him. America is the greatest country in the freaking world... woohoo.",
"It’s impossible to cancel a musician",
"How is it that rock musicians can usually sense when to stop and always seem to notice when something is up or someone up front needs help but Travis Scott can't?\n\nEdit: except Limp Bizkit at Woodstock",
"Isn't that just his way to hype the crowd? He tells people to throw their middle fingers up all the time. Obviously the fact that he just ignored the ambulance and kept the show going is horrible, and he showed a complete lack of empathy, and he's a piece of shit, etc.\n\nBut the middle finger thing doesn't seem that important to me.",
"Autotune was in use for pitch correction for decades before artists figured out how to break it and use the effect for more than reliably hitting high notes.\n\nI don't love the effect but at least be honest about it.",
"Boo this man!",
"I didn't know who he was until this incident.\n\nWell, really all I know now is he's apparently a performer and an asshole.",
"Oddly relevant username",
"Travis Scott and the concert organizers are about to pay a huge lawsuit.",
"And so many people on twitter were defending this event saying that people collapse all the time, even saying 300 people was a normal number to expect... Somehow glossing over the fact a further 8 people are DEAD?!",
"What the _fuck_ is wrong with him. The kinda shit that went down here should be career-ending _at the least._",
"[In a certain way it does mean that](https://youtu.be/gOMhN-hfMtY)",
"r/fucktravisscott",
"The songs were censored and it was more of a visual experience btw",
"Watch his tiny desk concert. It will blow you away how talented he is without a single shred of artifice.",
"This is why we can't have even shitty things.",
"If you watch the video it wasn't even crowd surfing either, they jumped on the people with their feet first as if to intentionally stomp/crush them. Observe how they jump: [https://youtu.be/1Q1AF00SqXE?t=1843](https://youtu.be/1Q1AF00SqXE?t=1843)",
"You mean the video you saw last night on reddit",
"Wish I could award you for this comment\n\nEdit: thanks to the stranger who hooked us up",
"Yeah, I keep thinking \"it's sooo shocking that anyone would defend this monster.\"\n\nThen I remember Chris Brown...",
"Its the kind of video where something that is a total accident and doesn't sound *that* bad is revealed to be shockingly lethal shockingly fast. Probably 3/4 of the people in that video could have reacted perfectly and never made it.",
">\t This was a failure of communication and organization on so many levels\n\nIsn’t this **his** festival? So it’s all his fault.",
">there's a huge sect of people saying he isn't responsible, leave him alone it was the crowds fault.\n\nI live in New Orleans, and stopped at my local Walgreens on the way back from an appointment this afternoon. Some old grandma behind me was on her phone talking to someone saying she thinks the concert was sabatoged because a black man was making too much money.",
"People have to remember that medical tents at concerts are basically there for people who \"had too much\", seizures, other very simple things. They're not there to handle catastrophes. I can't imagine showing up to that gig and dealing with something like this madness. Was probably extremely traumatic.",
"He never told people to rush the stage at astrofrest. At most he said in May that \"wild ones\" could \"sneak in\" the festival. That's it. On stage he never told people to rush the stage or push. Live stream of his performance if you wanna see for yourself: https://youtu.be/kjD2tDEqWTk",
"99% of people in this thread havent been to a rap show, “put 2 middle fingers in the air” happens all the time.",
"ok boomer",
"Jesus fucking Christ it just gets worse and worse",
"It's like he set out to make the wrongful death lawsuits against him as much of a slam dunk as possible for the plaintiffs.",
"See and now I regret standing up for this douchebag when he got made fun of for his stupid fuckin batman costume.",
"Fuck dis satanic boi",
"If he was oblivious to the ambulance it’s one thing. But he sees it and then decides putting up the middle finger is appropriate? If he completely dismissed it and kept going I’d agree, he’s a professional doing his job. But he really knew something was up and his response was to incite anger towards the first responders. I don’t know how you can defend that action.",
"Peace of shit",
"What was this guy thinking? I've been to so many concerts and festivals and the artists almost always keep tabs on the crowd. \"Stop pushing, help this person right there, pick up that person in the pit.\" Was he inciting the people to push?",
"I will never understand how or why that dude gets paid like he does lol he’s such trash",
"I'm developing PTSD just reading these comments about it.",
"You’re one to talk, u/Ipuncholdpeople",
"10/10 troll, well done",
"We lose Juice WRLD and we keep this dipshit. Life ain’t fair.",
"[Gangster/Thug/Hoodrat it's all the same lol](https://theshadowleague.com/thug-is-new-favorite-code-word-for-dog-whistle-politicians-and-black-bashers/)\n\nLike I said in my comment above, the venn diagram between mainstream rap and gangster rap hasn't overlapped in a decade or two.\n\nAnd back when it did it was mostly white A&Rs driving it! Which makes all of this acting like mainstream wrap is Soundcloud drill rappers talking about a murder last week all the more stupid!\n\nLike rap got exponentially more successful as it moved away from gangster culture, and yet you have people who act like it's defined by gangster culture to this day.",
"That's what we don't know.",
"What cunt flips off an ambulance?",
"I said the same thing! My husband said Travis Scott and I said “is he a country singer?”🤣 That is one County ass name.",
">who says \"hey lets go to a really violent place to risk getting trampled!\"\n\nNo one ever said that. Way to blame the victims who tragically died at a festival.",
"How come the other people on stage didn\\`t just stop everything? Were they unaware of what was going on?",
"Come on, its clearly worse putting a middle finger up at a ambulance and noticing an ambulance and continuing with the script of putting middle finger up while ignoring the ambulance’s presence. One is consciously being intolerant and abusive of the ambulance while the other is being ignorant. Its not black or white where if its wrong its equally bad. One is clearly worse than the other",
"Scummy human. Fuck this guy. I hope he gets sued and thrown in jail for those innocent lives we lost.",
"No not all rap is autotune, sorry but this such a boomer comment. Not all Travis Scott songs have excessive autotune.",
"That's the beauty of perspective right, if her granbaby was one of the 8 dead she would be extremely vocal about how Travis Scott is a monster...",
"If Chris Brown was a white guy he'd be flipping burgers right now.",
"What does “forward slash s” mean?",
"Someone has never heard of The Aquabats.",
"What the duck? Why?",
"wow that cool",
"\"Our ~~arrows~~ Yikes will blot out the sun...\"",
"> eah I wouldn't have the slightest clue how to deal with that without completely losing my temper. \n\nRight!? Like my response to the 7th grader would have been \"I hope you get beat up then\".",
"And there I go to rewatch GTO again! The song always makes me emotional, and the incredible crowd only makes it that much better.",
"Maybe, maybe not. Plenty of very famous musicians are complete scumbags and still have a legacy for their music.",
"Another piece of misinformation. Those weren't staff, they were fans who are handpicked either before or during the show to stagedive. You can see them flying off the stage at the end of the video. It's a routine he's been doing at every show for years.",
"How do you know they went on stage to inform him? You’re just talking out of Your ass",
"All I knew about him was from his subreddit whenever it surfaced on /r/all and all that told me is that (some of) his fans treat him like Kanye West treats himself.",
"Plot twist: “He is/becomes self insured”",
"Regardless, the whole 'middle finger in the air' thing is just trying so hard and absolutely not the vibe.",
"Gues you are rights",
"No, but Reddit takes it for a fact. This thread has been eye-opening",
"Yeah what would've affected their ability to help would've been when he started the music back up and said he wanted to \"make this mother fucking ground shake\"",
"You need more chicken nuggies in your life",
"I wish his career was done. Unfortunately, enough of his fans will follow him and ignore what a POS scumbag he clearly is to keep him going. Celebrity worship is a blight to society.",
"You’re not missing anything. Him or Megan the stallion or whatever the fuck her stupid fucking moniker is.",
"I'll probably be long gone by then but heck, !RemindMe 70 years.",
"This whole thing that people “vibe” to rage will always be weird to me.",
"I was in a wall of death at a show and people went wild, but 100% watched out for the person they were charging at.",
"I used the word \"beaten,\" not hit or spanked, which are much more grey areas imo. I associate \"beaten\" with like beating them up senselessly",
"Don't we all.",
"People like tv shows you don’t like. People like movies you don’t like. People like foods you don’t like. People like actors you don’t like. People like activities you don’t like. People like video games you don’t like. People like restaurants you don’t like.",
"And also a piece of shit!",
"Damn man, why you gotta use “Stan”. Don’t bring 313 up in the 713.",
"calling out racists for their racism might seem like trolling... if you’re a racist \n\nman really publicly stated that travis scott naturally “looks like a terrible person” just because he’s black.",
"“Thug music” this is just blatantly racist",
"Only an absolute piece of shit sees an AMBULANCE coming and does something, anything that can impede their progress.",
"Asshole couldn’t stand not being the center of attention when people were ducking dying. Hope this ends his career.",
"Like federline in Cleveland show rapping about killing fireman.",
"End of sarcasm\n\n<s>getting your arm cut off _totally_ wouldn't hurt</s>",
"Or he’s shitty. He has already incited stag rushes and was arrested for it.",
"I never said that asshat",
"Like incitement?",
"See Dunning-Kruger effect.",
"Low IQ",
"If you can't control the crowd or pay people *big* bucks to make sure the crowd is safe then you have absolutely no right hosting shows. Tons of musicians both massive and tiny have no issue doing right by their fans. Seeing an ambulance and not stopping your shit for a few minutes is just dumb.\n\nEdit: [Also the show continued after it was declared a mass casualty event *and* had fireworks at the end to cap off the night.](https://bossip.com/2049031/astroworld-aftermath-officials-allege-that-travis-scott-performed-for-37-minutes-after-show-declared-a-mass-casualty/)",
"He was not the original influence homie.... ASAP Rocky was doing that way before him and even then he wasn’t the original influence. Mac Miller was way more influential in that regard. \n\nStop the cap.",
"There is a video of a girl and a guy climbing the stage at the back and telling the camera guy that ppl are dead and he needs to stop the concert. I don’t see how you can argue he didn’t know. He did and he chose not to do anything. Scumbag that he is",
"Oh no! A live performer trying to hype his fans? What a douche",
"If Chris Brown still has a career, then nothing gonna happen here.",
"Just edited my last comment with the link if you'd like to see for yourself.",
"Dubstep was a weird trend. It was all 16 year olds on MDMA from my memories in austin. Glad its over.",
"Cannot understand the mentality of people that choose to be fans of a total douchebag like that.",
"Again, they were fans who were handpicked to stagedive. They approached him to basically fan out and he told them to focus on what they came to do which is crowd surf.",
"I've seen some pictures, but not sure how they work. How do people not just get crushed up against the barriers instead (or knock them over, or get pushed over/under them, etc)? I saw a video of I think a Japanese concert and the crowd was kettled off in pens, which limited the number of people in each cage and kept the aisles clear. But a big enough push and it didn't look like it would really hold. So then you have the fence falling on people and making it worse? I'm clearly not understanding how these things function.",
"2021 and we still complaining about auto tune? lmao",
"Never had any problems in crowds or had seen any. Until I went with friends to BCM (Biggest Club Mallorca). Steve played that night, in the first 5 minutes at least 5 girls had already been pulled from the crowd because they couldn’t handle it. We left and went downstairs. \n\nThis was inside a club….\n\nNever wanted to see steve, never will go to him again",
"That was my first thought too when I saw the headline, the station fire. That video stuck with me too.",
"I made the mistake of trying to look up information on this incident via YouTube. Like 3 videos down the list and its talking about Satanic conspiracies. I'm not even the kind of person who watches conspiracy videos.",
"I don’t want to watch the video (too disturbing) Can someone tell me if it’s really obvious that he can see there’s a problem?",
"'end of preceding' and the s is sarcasm.\n\nIt's like an html tag or something, but we don't put the s up front like it would if I remember html correctly and sarcasm was an html tag.",
"Anyone who defends this fucker, go check your brain.",
"So you don't think he's low IQ and deserves fame with this sort of behaviour? Sorry I'm just trying to be clear on your position. \n\nSees ambulance --> tells everyone to flip the bird --> says let's make the ground shake \n\nAll while there is an emergency being dealt with. \n\nSeems pretty low IQ to me. Majority would stop performing until the ambulance was done.\n\nI do agree that some people are being really stupid about it, but it seems reasonable to not want this person in a position to control crowds again.",
"Yup, I still don't see him flipping off the ambulance.",
"Movie stars have money and arguably more than musicians and their careers can get ruined just by an accusation. Sure there are extremely wealthy people like the Waltons who can get away with things. But that is significantly different from someone who makes their money by selling themselves more or less. You don't see the Waltons when you buy something from Walmart. You are literally paying money to see Chris brown.",
"He has fans defending him right now. I say fuck the fans defending him and the ones still a fan, not the ones who died innocently.",
"Because he's too concerned about being a thug in the eyes of his fans when in reality he's just a piece of shit",
"legit people will defend anything\n\n\"I've found a hill and I will die on it!\"\n\n\"LET US ALL RAISE OUR MIDDLE FINGERS... FOR NO REASON!\"",
"If ever I want cancel culture to pull through its now. I hate that culture, but this time In rooting for it",
"Fuck",
"Church will just make them dumber.",
"You watched the video clearly I'm assuming and this is the conclusion you came up with. You might be autistic and not know how social situations work.",
"When this entire thread and your entire comment are about him giving the finger, I'd call that fixation, didn't mean to trigger, sorry.\n\nJust seems pointless to fixate on when it is a largely meaningless gesture that is only bad if combined with something else.\n\nBut hey, if criticizing the big mean man makes you feel righteous, by all means carry on.",
"They should just. Constantly import that stuff; they’re regular sauce flavors at Korean McDonalds—",
"Yea you should stop thinking in general you’re hurting yourself bud. They had carnival games at the festival, also a roller coaster and a Ferris wheel and a big drop. Just goes to show you know nothing about that festival that you’re doing your “research” on and you don’t live in Houston. Get off your keyboard and go outside for once. Go live your life, you’re wasting your energy on something that has no connection to you. I feel sorry for you ❤️",
"Imagine being the parents who get told that their kid is going to be getting home late from the concert... permanently.",
"I punch old people with consent",
"What fucking reality do you live in that you think literally anything at all could justify that? And if you actual did half a second of research before typing such completely moronic horseshit, you'd realize that he beat the living shit out of her because she called him out for cheating on her and he got pissed. This isn't a problem of \"we don't know\", it's a problem of YOU don't know.",
"You are almost completely right. \n“Some” is pretty light, they have allot of controle",
"Reddit is so fucking predictable, use a tragic and complex breakdown of systems involving dozens if not hundreds of people to shit all over an artist you already don't like. I'm sure the families of the victims enjoy you using their dead kids as props for your hate train. \n\nTravis bears a lot of responsibility here but saying this entire situation is the fault of one man is fucking juvenile and shows a lack of understanding of how concerts at this level operate. Try not to make a horrible situation worse with your petulant hate train.",
"And that wasn’t even his only shitty thing he did! He continued to do shitty things after that. I’ve never once listened to any of his music and wouldn’t just because he’s a dick.",
"He was in boxcar racer also and a few other bands I've never listened to. He is actually a pretty bad ass drummer..\n\nhttps://youtu.be/FlTeNzSGFFw",
"I’m an idiot because I paid for something and had fun? Lol ok 👍",
"What a literal piece of shit",
"Idk... If enough people at that concert wanted to rush something it sure looks like they could get through the barriers. It really comes down to the people involved. There is a difference between an excited crowd and one that is just bulldozing forward.",
"Yeah that's no good at all",
"You should learn the full story about that, he did not, he was driving and she started hitting him and he punched her, she then called the police on him.",
"Thanks to him and dumb Redditors, I now know every artist that stopped their concert to help someone in the audience like Travis Scott didn’t do.",
"I never said he had 50 people talking in his monitors. I said there is a line of communication for the event and he most definitely can get live feedback. \n\nPitchfork mob? All I did was correct your incorrect statement about there being no line of communication between the performer and the event staff. You crab walked on your comment because you couldn’t accept being wrong and now your deflecting it to something else.",
"Completely agree. All these posts are just a Reddit circle jerk for karma. It’s actually fucked up people are using these deaths to farm imaginary internet points.\n\nBring on the downvotes",
"I mean I hate to compare the two but getting 8 people killed might be worse than beating the crap out of just one",
"Said that yesterday and got down voted. Give it a few months and some rapper will drop a line like\n\n\"I'm the hardest there is everybody knows. My beat slaps harder then a Travis Scott show.\"",
"100 hundred people packed into a venue entrance stuck and burning alive. it’s one of the worst things i’ve ever seen in my life but also made me extremely cautious of crowds and exits",
"The fans were chanting “stop the show” and screaming “help” when no music was playing and he ignored them.",
"Wait, what did he do that deserves prison time? Being a dick isn't illegal. People are dicks all the time. For example when people are hemming and hawing about someone causing all sorts of traffic. \"Thanks alot asshole, now everyone is late because you were carelessly looking at your phone or some BS.\" meanwhile that person hit a piece of debris they couldn't avoid and it flipped their car and killed them. But people who are unknowing of the situation sit around judging someone they don't know because of the situation unfolding because of their deaths.",
"Fuckin aye your right, saw a clip on the tele Noel and Liam stopped glastonbury for safe sake.",
"I dunno man. He's done stuff like this way too many times to say it's simply a failure of communication. At this point, I'm leaning toward the possibility that he very much wanted people to get hurt.",
"Many of the smartest people, including scientists, are religious and attend religious events.",
"This is what happens when you get too high! You only care for yourself",
"Exactly!! A man was killed at a Rolling Stones concert when they hired poor security and no one’s calling to have Mick Jagger arrested, Reddit is so biased it’s fucking disgusting.",
"Look at all the people doing their own research? Yeah, of course we have dumb people everywhere.",
"I hope he does get sued by a lot of people",
"Welp. thats 2nd or 3rd degree murder.",
"I had no idea who this guy was until Sunday morning.",
"This guy is screwed.",
"[Really?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-Tune) \n \n> Auto-Tune (or autotune) is an audio processor introduced in 1997, and a registered trademark of Antares Audio Technologies.[4] Auto-Tune uses a proprietary device to measure and alter pitch in vocal and instrumental music recording and performances. \n \n> ... Auto-Tune was launched in September 1997[13] by Andy Hildebrand, a Ph.D. research engineer who specialized in stochastic estimation theory and digital signal processing. Over several months in early 1996, he implemented the algorithm on a custom Macintosh computer, and presented the result at the NAMM Show later that year, where \"it was instantly a massive hit.\"[14]\n \nHere's the patent, [from 1999.](https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=5973252&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP#)",
"Abbie",
"Too many of the wrong people have money. I’d say the solution is to stop giving it to them.",
"I think it’s about amount of people behind the barriers. You can’t get enough momentum going to crush people with the amount of room that is allowed. \n\nSo instead of a wide open field where the people in the back can just keep pushing forward with more and more momentum, these barriers only allow so much. \n\nThen you just end up standing next to people with no real deadly force behind it. You might get a bruise or what not, but not get crushed. Not positive so hopefully someone who knows will chime in. But pretty sure where they have been installed they haven’t had any crushing deaths since at those venues.",
"Woe is me brah",
"Spending your week defending a douchebag you've never met? \n\nPoor kid :(\n\nHopefully you grow out of it by high school",
"I'm more disappointed at the people who idolize him than the slimy businessmen who try to make him famous.",
"not a chance, theyll just charge him a higher premium\n\ninsurance companies are in the business of making money, not protecting people's safety",
"Obviously the secret to success is to beat the shit out Rhianna.",
"Fuck everything about this guy.",
"Lmao why would you argue over this.",
"Meanwhile people will defend him and say how it is freedom of speech and how he is a product of his culture. \n\n\nBut when the fucker gets shot by a rival gang member or the police while high waiving a gun at them they will cry how his life was ended too early and how great of a person he was.",
"Yea I get that but I mean the video I posted is enough for me and should be enough for the City to postpone the concert. It seems like the City should share that blame and serve as a warning to any other arena that plans to host Travis...",
"Like all \"celebrities\", he will get out of all criminal charges. He will use his millions and Lawyer up and keep making money. Who cares about life when you are into rap music that promotes violence.",
"Thats already a thing, its called a soundboard and they can cut the music at any time.",
"I wish we elevated more thoughtful people. This is going to eat Mr. Scott alive.",
"Maybe a hype song wasn't the exact best move when there was already an ambulance in the crowd",
"Maybe he thought the ambulance had the situation under control? This probably happens at his concerts sometimes and this was just another one of those times? Critical thinking buddy? He probably told everyone to put their fingers up just to hype the crowd up again and continue on with the show. He clearly paused to take in the situation and made a decision off of that. \n\nWhy are Reddit incels coming out of the wood work collectively bashing a black artist without any context and information? \n\nWe already know what Reddit's demographic is made up of though so its not surprising.",
"He likely knew it wasn't simply heat stroke because he's had serious injuries at his concerts before from his bullshit. His toxic attitude ensures riots happen at most of his concerts, encouraging fans to gate crash and rush the stage. He seems to relish the violence.",
"That’ll cost him even more.",
"We know about how devastating crowd crush events can be since the beginning of time. I would absolutely expect there to be laws in regulations mandating safety precautions at huge concerts like this one. I am no expert but there should be a way to quickly open gates and instruct people to move away from the stage at any time. Stage management, security and medical staff for whatever reason failed to initiate such an emergency response even long after it was clear that a mass casualty incident occurred. It doesn’t matter what the performer on stage says or does in that situation, there have to be people who can cancel the show whenever necessary. \n \nIts also clear that the EMS and police response was more than suboptimal. I’m a paramedic myself and I understand that dealing with an MCI is very difficult especially if the event medics are insufficiently trained snd prepared, but I still don’t understand why the first responders took so long to correctly identify the scope of the scenario and evacuate the area. There must have been massive failures in planning, training, organization and of course Travis is responsible as it’s his company that organized the concert. But it’s not his personal responsibility to coordinate an emergency response",
"A lot of people here seem to be replying to suggest that Travis Scott is unintelligent and doesn't know any better.\n\nBullshit.\n\nHe's made millions and millions of dollars by being an aggressive asshole. Why would he stop now? Why would the deaths of 8 people make him stop when he's still raking in money?\n\nThis isn't stupidity, it's sociopathy (and capitalism). The \"why\" is greed and success. It's frankly quite easy to understand, when you're sufficiently cynical.",
"Wat",
"ACL does not have a roller coast and carnival games, Bonnaroo does not have a roller coaster and carnival games, Buku does not have a roller coaster and carnival games, Freaky Deaky does not have a roller coaster and carnival games, Ubbi Dubbi does not have a roller coaster and carnival games, Electric Forrest does not have a roller coaster and carnival games, Float Fest does not have a roller coaster and carnival games. \n\nDo you want me to keep going? Obviously you’ve never really been to a music festival, you’ve only just researched about them on the internet that’s all.",
"See I was wondering why aren't they doing this at these concerts... I mean we have long known that people can be crushed to death at these things.. its not a particularly difficult problem to avoid.. or at least take measures to prevent. Of course mob mentality is hard to control if things start to get crazy, but like, there are so many things you could be doing to make sure this is an extremely rare occurrence.",
"This as well. People with the “just doing my job” attitude. Even in a deadly situation.",
"This guy is such a loser",
"Imagine having kids with this guy. Gross",
"Just like other rappers that beat women and kill people or old school rockstars that fucked teenagers, nothing will happen unfortunately",
"Facts, Reddit's demographic eats it all up though.",
"Love Parade Berlin 2010, 21 dead 650 injured",
"Same reason why people blame cancer victims for not eating enough activated almonds or whatever. The idea that something bad can happen to you without you having any control over it is so terrifying to some people that they refuse to recognise it in their worldview.",
"They were along the way but Travis was more influential for the current sound, just due to time proximity.",
"Toddlers often love to hang onto their security blankets for longer than necessary sometimes. Its understandable for you.",
"Once the losses are too much, they won’t insure you. Jackie Chan and his entire stunt team got blacklisted by insurance companies after all the stunts they did over the years.",
"And collectively reddit has shown me 20 or so major acts that all did exactly that. It's not hard, it just takes a shred of empathy or humanity",
"The crazy thing is that's probably not even the bottom",
"I kind of liked some of his songs. Now I’m fucking disgusted, will have to start cleaning up my playlist.",
"It is to engage the audience, but not to calm them, it's to pump them up.",
"I bet now they pretend to be sympathetic since they have other people telling them how fucked up the situation is. \n\nPeople can't be trusted.",
"> He'll gain some traction and trend upwards, but hopefully when the dust settles he'll have a hard time finding sponsors and fanbase.\n\nI think you're underestimating the stay power of one of the 3 biggest names in the last 5 years of hip hop",
"Well fuck them too, then",
"“Boomers”",
"Fu** this garbage human being...",
"Arrest this son of a bitch already, these vids are stockpiling and PROVING that this bastard didn’t give a fuck about the ppl dying",
"It's at least how it started",
"The point is that saying givr a finger to the sky and continuing go play music is effectively the same as giving the finger to the ambulance intentionally... So the point is moot.",
"Dude obviously fucked up, but he was almost certainly not flipping off the ambulance. \n\nSeemed like an edgy attempt to break the awkward silence.",
"Fuck this guy",
"he’s also guilty",
"Save yourself man, don’t watch it.",
"I don't claim to be an expert, but he has a rep for inciting the crowds at prior events. Tried to get the crowd to beat up on a single guy when his shoes came off crowd surfing, and verballing threatening security. He WANTS them to rush security onto the stage. He knew what he was doing.",
"I mean it's kind of in the vibe of the concert, you'd just kinda have to be there yourself to understand",
"Pretty childish.",
"LoveParade was only 11 years ago.",
"Oh, bull. Cops get more accountability than the rich.",
"Did you know Kim does a ton of work to help people who were wrongfully imprisoned. She’s testified in front of court and has a non-for profit. Is She still a piece of shit? I don’t like what they represent but things aren’t always as they appear",
"Like others have said, outside of reddit I havent seen nearly as much bad news about him. He’ll still perform and no one will care soon.",
"Hello from the metal world, we have crowd surges all the time as it's often part of the pit expanding but at a typical rap show I don't know why people shove each other",
"\"Rappers these days\" Lol they are probably the only two rappers you even know by name. You wanna shit on travis, fine he deserves it, but getting on a soapbox to shit on rap when you obviously know nothing about it makes you at best ignorant and at worst racist, you never see the genres that arent populated with black musicians get this much vitriol directed at it.",
"Everything ive seen in reference to this concert (specifically Travis’ actions & the actions of the crowd) have been very disturbing. The video where he’s standing motionless, almost chanting, & watching an unconscious person being carried away in the crowd is super unsettling. I don’t feed into the conspiracy theories around him but there’s definitely something going on. It’s hard to ignore that. I’ve heard people in the crowd were being injected with drugs, their was something laced into to fog & smoke machines, he was summoning the devil, it was a ritual, etc. Idk man. None of this really makes sense.",
"This. Exactly",
"Haven't witnessed the crowed surfing problem (mostly because the shows i'm at dont have or disallow crowd surfing).\n\nAs for the crowd being dicks, every crowd has a few assholes, but in my experience those people are usually \"dealt with\" by an eventual ass beating",
"There is no difference for anyone who doesn't listen to modern rap. Everything sounds the fucking same.",
"Omfg",
"I don't even understand what happened? Did he even know, did no one tell him?",
"Didn't he tell people to rush the barricades at this concert though? If so he seems kind of responsible.",
"That don’t mean he knew what was happening",
"Damn.",
"It's for people to communicate that the preceding statement was a joke. It's because the poster thinks we're idiots and we wouldn't understand humor through context.",
"The more I hear of this mr. Scott, the less I care for him.",
"Did you ride on the roller coast and play the carnival games?",
"\"I dont care what kind of rapper he is\" Yet you brought it up lol. Next time try to hide your racist bias against black music.",
"Do you not realize this post is a video of him specifically telling the audience to give the middle finger to the emergency services trying to give aid to people in need and then continuing the show as if it doesn’t matter? Lol what else do you expect people to discuss if not the very thing the post is about? \n\nIt’s not a meaningless gesture because the context of the safety and well being of people requiring emergency aid. I mean how dense do you have to be to not make that connection? \n\nThis isn’t about me or any other person in the comment thread. This is about a POS human being and the surrounding people/entities who were negligent in their duty to ensure the safety of the concert attendees. If they don’t deserve critique then who the fuck does?",
"Agreed. It came across as he stopped the show because of the medic and once they were doing their job, he resumed the show. \"The show must go on\" has been around forever. And part of the show was this \"put your middle fingers up\" bit. \nI think a lot of people are misinterpreting this.",
"He's such a hoodRAT why would anyone listen to that crap let alone go to a show...",
"When money makes you stupid you end up with dead folks. Fuck him. Fuck the Kards. Fuck anyone who wags their tongues at this bullshit scene.",
"I thought he was an offroad motocross guy lol. Is there another Travis Scott?",
"That's your response to the argument? \n\nVery mature.",
"It's literally called trap music. Like a trap house. It's intentionally ratchet and specifically glorifies all the hoodrat ways of life. It's ok to like it or dislike it, but it's not a race thing.\n\nIf anything, assuming trap is specifically about a certain race is the only racist part.",
"what does he gain from keeping a show going when he knows that even one person has died",
"By far the worst. I found the interviews of the survivors super interesting. Even the guilt of surviving something that bad that has got to kill your soul.",
"Your girlfriend deserves better.",
"Lol says the one who’s on an AstroworldFestival thread and didn’t even go 😂 you’re dumb",
"What did he do wrong?",
"Everything else aside, that mountain range screen is sick.",
"Like turning back on the grinder.",
"Here we go!\n\nHere we go!\n\nHere we go!\n\nYeeaa\n\nHere we go!\n\nYeeeeeaaaa!\n\nYeeeaaaa!\n\nYeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeee!",
"Hes gonna become a billionaire",
"Fuck Travis 100% but “sicko mode” was an absolutely massive song when it came out in 2018. I’m surprised so many people in this thread haven’t heard it. Maybe they don’t realize it’s him? It’s got over 1.5 billion streams on Spotify alone.",
"Can you expect more from a black guy",
"I honestly think there's a huge lack of empathy in society nowadays. Unless something direcy affects someone or their family, they don't care. Reaction to the pandemic, vaccines and climate change denial are more huge scale examples. \n\nI really can't imagine any of these things being ignored by society 20+ years ago. \n\nThese aren't the only examples either, it's everywhere I look and it's fucking sad.",
"No one says that",
"yep exhibit A thought D your honor. Can you smell the class action lawsuits",
"This. Yes everyone could have been more responsive including him, but I’ve been to a show of his before and from why I could tell, he seems like he was at least trying to make sure everyone was okay when he asked everyone to put up their middle fingers (I doubt it was a fuck you to the ambulance, more so just trying to symbolically say fuck it) as a way of saying like everyone chill and stop for a second and put your hands up. The other reason I feel this video shows he really was trying his best, was you see his shock when he sees the cart and says whoah, as if he was confused about the situation. His team is absolutely communicating with him through the earpiece so the real determining factor for how much Travis knows is whatever he is being told on the mic; he is performing so if he isn’t being told the weight of what’s occurring then he probably assumes it’s typically festival activities and someone just got a little banged up. All this is why I’m really holding back from casting too much judgment. I really think that once a full investigation is launched and all the background details are uncovered, a clearer picture will be developed.",
"I don't doubt it, which is why i avoid trying to push to the very front of the crowd (did see a stage rush similar to your Disturbed experience at an August Burns Red concert)",
"This is the first comment I've seen on the matter that is in any way logical",
"He's dating Kylie Jenner. Not exactly a Tom Hanks-level guy.",
"Okay?",
"He is about to get slaughtered with lawsuits.",
"I mean, Sicko Mode is pretty goddamn good.",
" It looks like it took his narcissistic mind a minute to register the ambulance wasn’t there for him. And then he got offended",
"What a fucking vile person, if people still support him after this and defend him they deserve to be locked up.",
"Did it occur to you that it's possible they told him to stop multiple times and he ignored it?",
"Lol I’m sure you rode on their “roller coaster”. You’re definitely an internet bot",
"Idk it was some stupid shit. She just refused to accept my opinion and wouldn't drop it.",
"Half this site is propaganda. It's nuts",
"Yeah I went to r/publicfreakout last night and saw it was like 35% travis scott being an asshole and 65% other artists helping their fans when bad stuff happens during a concert.",
"The only thing I knew about Travis Scott prior to this week: \"Is he that Fortnite guy?\"",
"They actually make the most performing shows, so that revenue loss sucks.",
"He was making people flip off the emergency crews responding to the 911 calls of unconscious and dead ppl.",
"Na. It's just human nature as usual.",
"Any random joe with half a brain would know something is wrong if a fucking ambulance drives into the crowd. Instead of stopping the show, he continued on. He is the most responsible for this shitshow.",
"And morons always feel they need to have the final word, so crack on, reply again...",
"Weapons grade shitbag !!",
"God damn, Ive seen a bunch of these astroworld videos. But this Really is the worst one ive seen.",
"Love how mainstream news doesn’t focus on how Travis ignored all the signs to stop the show.",
"But your waisting your time and negative energy on a festival that you didn’t even go to?!? Get a life lol",
"Hundreds? You've been to 200+ concerts? I call bullshit.",
"Sam Hyde?",
"Phoenix*",
"Tana mongeau made a better “apology” video than this asshole.",
"As someone who was actually in crowd crush at a show once, this fucking triggered me hard. Full flashbacks to that traumatic shit.",
"You're not wrong",
"I still don't know who Travis Scott is, and that seems like a good thing given the negative press I've been seeing.",
"I didn't know about him until the promo, either, but I thought the fact that people called them \"Travvy Patties\" was absolutely hilarious.\n\nToo bad he ended up being a piece of shit.",
"What does you being older have to do with you lying about riding a “roller coaster” at Bonnaroo? Lol",
"I saw lil John do it at the last electric daisy carnival in Los Angeles. Lil fucking John.",
"The fact these losers listened, followed along, and began cheering is sad",
"Travis is extremely influential and undeniably talented. I've never been into his music, but you can't just say he isn't talented.",
"What a goof",
"Love nation his a reputation of being under prepared and letting shows go to shit. The fact they didn’t tell Travis about someone dying until 40 minutes after the fact is abdsurf.",
"Seriously, I was like “dafuq is Travis and why is there a meal named after him”? I thought McDonalds was doing a promotion where people pitch different combinations and a rando named Travis won.",
"For mental patients",
"I am aware that the technology exists. The flaw here is not the lack of tech. The flaw is the lack of protocol. What I am saying is that a fire marshal should be stationed at the sound board at all times and as soon as they are aware of an issue they make sure it is communicated to the performer and if the performer is not doing the right thing within seconds they cut the stage audio and take over.",
"Yeah I think you took that the wrong way. He meant there were a lot of people along the way who could have said something or done something different and no one would have died.",
"He did stop and acknowledge and ask what's going on. \n\nSeems to me he resumed when he figured they had it under control. \nI don't think the clueless person on stage who is focused on making music should be responsible. They should have other people up there for oversight and communicating with the medics to determine if someone just passed out dehydrated and is helped and find, or if there's a major issue justifying stopping the show.",
"Damn he handled that terribly…. Looks like he’s thinking “what the hell is an ambulance doing in the crowd, they screwing up the show.” He wasn’t thinking about whether someone was hurt or not. I still don’t think he should be demonized for that reaction though. He’s performing so if anything someone on the production crew should’ve figured out what was going on and then stopped the show, not the performer.",
"That clip going around where the security is \"crowd surfing\" the dead body out of the crowd is exactly this. He stopped for like 5 seconds to point out the body, and before the security even had the body off the ground he resumed the concert. There's no defense for any of this. Fuck Travis Scott.",
"> my job would be to keep the crowed focused on me so the paramedics could do their job\n\nBut what he did made it harder for them to do their job.",
"it's like, between the organizer and the performer, someone fucked up. and guess what, both are the same person.",
"And all his fans obey like the mindless monkeys they are.",
"that's just bizarre",
"Follow the money. Multiple times I saw people say they wouldn’t stop the show because it was being live streamed. \n\nLiterally money over human lives.",
"Why aren’t you on the 9/11 Reddit page then? Go dick ride the taliban then fuck out of here 😂",
"You missed the part where I said Travis definitely bears responsibility I guess, keep getting angry at headlines dude this is much more complex of a situation than \"rapper bad\"",
"Still.",
"Is it a generational thing, really?",
"Boxcar was great... aquabots was meh.. still none compare to 98 degrees or backstreet boys.... except lamb of God with the incredible double bass",
"I think something that being in the workplace really drives home is how much even 3-5 years of age difference can separate someone's interests and hobbies. It's kind of shocking to live and breathe something, then have someone look at you blankly and say they've never heard of it.",
"Did you ride the fake “roller coaster” at Bonnaroo? Lol",
"When did I ever pretend he did nothing wrong here?",
"Shit music and shit person with no respect for public servants.",
"Yeah agreed",
"It's usually not to bad. I've been in big crowds at shows like that a few times and if the artist gives even the smallest amount of fucks it makes a huge difference",
"He looks like a turd",
"Who cares how many people listen to him on Spotify? If he was a top 50 artist on MTV back when they played music videos everyone would know who he is. I don't get other people's Spotify playlists piped into my 20 channels of cable TV. He doesn't exist in my world, and I'm okay with that.",
"This ugly psychopath needs big jail time.",
"Human garbage. He’s being sued but criminal charges should be filed. drakes hands aren’t clean either.",
"What happened? I’ve never heard about this, and these aren’t exactly key words I’m trying to google haha.",
"It didn't seem like he was telling them to flip off the ambulance, but rather just a generalized immature edgelord stuff. That, and most of the sheep out there did it anyways.",
"Idk man, seems unhealthy to feed the need to hate like this, like there's not even a popular r/fuckhitler",
"Lol you're either intentionally downplaying or totally unaware of this guy's popularity. You also seem a bit naive as to how this is gonna play out... ever heard of Chris Brown?",
"Love parade is weird because it had been running for what... 20+ years before that? \n\nThat was pure stupidity to have people flow through a tunnel..\n\nI'd say Love Parade is an outlier but you're totally right.",
"But he's an artist",
"Present? Yes. Lights and sirens on, trying to move through a crowd? No.\n\nI don't know why you're defending a guy who wouldn't piss on fire to put you out.",
"That \"probably\" is doing a *lot* of work there...",
"what a hero to his followers. Somewhere there's a white man that wants his name back for misappropriating his culture. Until I learned more, I swear I thought it was a country music concert. All kidding aside, the guy must be pretty good to have gotten this far with such a terrible name. Boomer OUT.",
"LOL imagine enjoying this absolute trash. Literally could put anyone up there with the music playing and it wouldn't be any worse.",
"He's visibly speechless for a third of this video. He didn't know what to do. And then he made the mistake of trying to reengage the audience to shift crowd attention on what was happening. It was absolutely stupid move, but, what you see here directly contradicts the idea that he was being antagonistic at this particular moment.",
"Yeah, 2 is bad enough, but 3 first names and you're in presidential assassin territory.",
"If you see an ambulance.. you at the very least know that someone needs medical help.",
"The crowd was liberally chant stop the show at him",
"To be honest he's not the only one to blame. All the people on stage with him, all the people actively participating in putting on the show, lights, pyro... All that shit needs to stop when shits going down. What the fuck is wrong with everyone involved in this story?",
"Travis ta complicado",
">In-ear monitors allow for custom audio mixes that are tailored to each performer. One of the benefits is that back of house and front of house can have a feed to the IEMs for communication.\n\nYeah but from all the stories going around it seems that there were communication issues between staff/staff didn't know what to do so I don't know if what staff was telling him is any accurate.",
"Because a lot of us *are* idiots. \n\nBut also lot of people aren't sarcastic and actually mean it.\n\nThere's all types on reddit.",
"I’ve been a fan of his for a couple of years, but today a song came on randomly and I felt so bad, I had to change it. Rest In Peace to the ones that perished and hopefully all the other injured ones can get back to life without too much damage. And this guy not stopping his set when people died is just so infuriating. Some people are just egomaniacs with shit personality.",
"I don't think I could hate this absolute piece of trash anymore than I do. I hope horrible things happen to him and only him. Horrible things.",
"I mean look at our previous shit hole of a president. How many marriages did he cheat on, how many impending rape accusations are against him. Multiple failed/bankrupted businesses under his directive. He incited a coup and this massive POS is STILL going to try to run again in 2024.",
"He has control of the entire crowd. He could have saved lives by asking everyone to give the medical cart room to pick up people and back out. Instead, as soon as the music started, people started dancing on the damn cart.",
"He seems like a real narcissist.",
"Agreed. The optics of flipping off the ambulance looks really bad but the man had no clue what’s going on. He did what he came there to do, perform. Seems like production should’ve figured out what was happening and stopped the show, not the performer",
"yeah, it's the organizer who's to blame. who is also Travis Scott!",
"Reddit still talking about Travis Scott like they talk about covid numbers. Classic reddit",
"Junior...",
"I hope it also encourages performance venues not owned by Live Nation to sever their ties with that garbage company, which has had a stranglehold on live event ticketing in the US for decades – to the detriment of everyone but its executives and shareholders.\n\nWishful thinking, I realize. They'll probably just exploit the tragedy as an excuse to include a new \"safety fee\" in all ticket sales.",
"rofl",
"There was an interview with a girl who was trapped in the crowd. She described how terrifying it was knowing that another drop was coming and not being able to move surrounded by other people realizing the same thing. Her voice was still hoarse from screaming.",
"remember when the entire audience applauded when Wendy told a woman to just stop taking birth control to get pregnant and not tell her husband. She's a piece of shit.",
"And you refused to accept her opinion and drop it, hence the argument. Make sure things are a discussion, not an argument.",
"Probably costs too much, spreading out and restricting peoples movement likely reduces the absolute capacity of the venue a little plus increases operation cost of managing all of it.\n\nWhen there's even a little bit of profit to be made then as long as it's not strictly illegal you can be sure some will do it. After all most of the time you don't get a shit storm like this one so why lose out on the potential profit..\n\nAt least that's what I'd guess but who knows, maybe they just like to watch people suffer or something.",
"It's easy to make a post showing how and where Travis Scott is responsible. It's a lot harder for Live Nation or Reliant Park. Everyone is responsible, but one is in the public's eye.",
"Boomers have no idea what autotune is. They barely know what rap is. The youngest boomers are pushing 60.\n\nOn a side note, any autotune is excessive autotune.",
"Yeah. No apologist here either. Dude seems like scum. The OP video it looks like he’s looking off to the soundboard or something and is given a go ahead. Could very well not be the case.",
"And then he immediately followed with \"I want to make this motherfucking ground shake, goddammit!\".",
"This piece of shit needs to be held liable.",
"Lol Someone clearly told him everything was okay… y’all are seriously reaching",
"Yeah! What a role model!!",
"All the closet racists using this terrible event to shit on rap now.",
"Fuck Travis Scott.",
"well look like the civil suits will bear fruit after all",
"He acknowledges the ambulance that's struggling to get through the crowd. Teeters back and forth a bit (like the angel and devil on his shoulders are talking to him the way they do in cartoons) and ultimately starts the next song a few seconds later.",
"/holyshitreddit",
"Insisting that people who haven't heard of someone think that not having heard of them makes them 'cool' seems to be a running theme in this thread.",
"That’s actually a really good point I haven’t seen mentioned yet. As a fellow metal head it’s my experience that older people do mosh, but they mosh like they gotta work on Monday. Kids mosh like they’re trying to prove something. I definitely avoid pits if the median age looks under 20. Not blaming the kids obviously, if anything Travis should have known it was an all ages show and been extra cautious, but it still is an interesting point.",
"The lie about giving the ambulance middle finger is a clear example of how outrage generates clicks. Travis Scott takes a huge portion of the blame, there’s no need to lie about what he did. \n\nIn the video, he says “If everybody’s good, put your middle fingers in the sky.” In no way shape or form is he telling people to give the ambulance the middle finger. One might even go as far to say that he’s asking for a signal that nothing too crazy is going on in the crowd, give me a sign. That’s not for me to say but I can say that he is not actively telling people to flip off an ambulance .",
"Wasn't in Berlin, was in Duisburg.",
"Wish the media would show this, but nope they won't.",
"Someone should've hijack it and tell people to hold up three fingers and make a \"o\" with the thumb and forefinger...\n\n\"F\" to his budgets",
"Those were the die easy ones man. \n\n(I know this is Reddit, but I still feel a little icky with this joke.)",
"I disagree on that last statement, Kanye and t-pain used excessive autotune and it isn’t bad imo, Frank ocean uses autotune and his music is amazing",
"The comments on that video are disgusting.",
"DaBaby shot and killed a guy in a Walmart",
"Dead?",
"Omg i thought the same thing haha",
"I don't know what's worst, the idiot on the stage or tge idiots that like his music.",
"He absolutely has the crowd under his control, that's the problem.\n\nHe wants them to do this shit",
"Fuck Travis Scott",
"I shit on rap if it's shit. This is shit.",
"There are probably thousands of music shows every night in the US, and you don’t constantly hear about this happening. Maybe this isn’t an anomaly for Travis Scott’s shows, but I’d certainly say it was an anomaly for shows in the US in general…",
"I mean let’s play devil’s advocate. People get hurt and pass out at concerts a lot. It’s a common thing especially at concerts where people moss pit. Who’s to say he knew the severity of the situation at hand?",
"I'm only giving an award in the hopes that this is seen by more of his 'fans'...",
"I think a lot of people think that they know what it's like, just by watching the video footage. It's a lot different when you're actually down there and in the event. And, like when anything goes wrong, there are always people saying what they would do but you never really know what you would do unless you were in that situation.",
"The leader of our youth",
"Internet Mob at it again. Just mad a successful entertainer. A lot of jealousy and hate effect peoples rage for him. This case will be investigated by the proper authorities and if he’s guilty then he will be charged. And also the event organizers, company, and him can be sued. Doesn’t take rocket science that if he knew people were dying that he would stop the concert. Because if he loves money sooo much as people say(which I know he does). Then he knows he would at lose TONS of money for purposely letting people die. Definitely not his first show, there over 50k people there. But let’s see what investigators accomplish. Redditors really hate him instead of the fans that do drugs and rage. Is it because he successful? RIP to the people who perished. They will get justice. But Reddit is not a real place.",
"Music is a huge part of my life but I'd never eve heard of this douchebag until this week",
"up until a day or so ago I had him confused with the dude from Maroon 5, no idea why. So when then news of the show came on, I was very confused...",
"What the heck does his race have to do with anything?",
"If the police's number one priority is to protect the public, why wasn't this concert forcibly stopped?",
"And just like Chris Brown I predict that anyone criticising Travis Scott for this incident will be labelled by his fans as a racist",
"I'm sure you're right, but determined people will just find a way, won't they? If, for example, those Japanese concert goers just decided \"fuck it, I'm going down the aisle to the front!\", all that planning doesn't mean shit, because everyone is still just pushing forward. It only seems to work because the crowd lets it work (ie, they respect the rules and stay where they're supposed to stay). But a less disciplined crowd could just bowl it over. I'm hoping someone has a link to a video or animation or something that can show it in action, because I'm not having much luck. I keep getting surfing results about wave breaking. Not helpful.",
"u/attorneytom",
"Well considering “thug” has historically and almost exclusively been used to negatively describe black men, nah I don’t think I’m the racist one here at all",
"You really think he wants people to fucking die at his concerts? Chill out with the garbage. Just because he encourages people to go crazy, rage and mosh doesn’t mean he Literally wanted people to end up dead.",
"It's a little early to tell but that Chapelle bit will ring true if nothing happens, say something controversial about a certain group, your careers over....kill multiple people your fine",
"Christ. What a stupid fucking mouth breather",
"u/attorneytom",
"In terms of questionable marketing decisions, that has to be up there on the all time leaderboard, right? I still don't understand how that one got approved.",
"He helped create the situation by encouraging overcrowding.\n\nPeople started dancing on top of the ambulance in plain view.\n\nI understand not wanting to adorn him with ALL the blame, but on the flip side don't minimize it either.\n\nHe showed disgusting indifference to the health and well-being of other people, of his fans. It was pathetic.",
"Compartmentalization is a thing, yes. Flat earthers do the same thing, it's not particularly impressive.\n\nChurch/religion still has nothing to do with morality or being a decent person. The history of religion solidifies that. Hell its only in modern times (past few generations in some ereas) that you've stopped murdering each other over minor theological differences.",
"Its all your fault Travis!!!!! Time to grow a pair, take responsibility for a poorly organized event and start signing some cheques buddy!",
"Malicious narcism",
"Shit artist anyways",
"He said thug music not trap music, and when “thug” has historically been used as a racist term against black people, I’m gonna assume something is racially motivated",
"u/attorneytom",
"It was the first Love Parade in Duisburg, the police chief said it was too dangerous but was under pressure from politicians. They even called for his resignation/termination.",
"This guy is a fucking idiot.",
"Yeah it's a weird one, I think it's this wankers 'rage mode' vibe. He promotes people being wild and reckless. \n\nMetal promotes people having a good and wild time, with a strong focus on respect and solidarity in the pit. No one wants people to get hurt and die at their shows, apart from this fuck nut it seems.",
"This is the type of music a lot of us grew up with. You have no idea what you’re talking about",
"Are you on the Taliban Reddit page? I better see you fighting hard for all those people who died in the 9/11 attack. Keep that same energy 🙏",
"transparent soul",
"No one needs church\n\nThey don't have a monopoly on empathetic, moral influence, closer to the opposite oftentimes.",
"He acts like a deer in headlights for awhile....",
"They’re barriers to ensure that there aren’t that many people in each area so the surges don’t get that big when they happen. The last few times I’ve been to Reading festival they’ve had them around the front of the stage, with security limiting the amount of people in there and a huge empty middle section to make it easier for security to pull people out if they need to. They’re also a lot more solid than just a fence. \n\nImportant to note that improperly designed fences can be bad too, Hillsborough had pens but they were to stop fans getting on the pitch, which meant the crowd couldn’t spread out when the crush started.",
"What an absolute scumbag",
"Being a metalhead, I've been to tons of shows where bands intentionally try to get the crowd to be as violent as possible, but I've also never felt more trusting that someone would pull me up from the bottom of the pit if I fell. Hell, I've had it happen plenty of times, there's always an extra hand there, and that's largely because a lot of bands will call out when they see people go down like \"Pick that motherfucker up!!\" \n\nI can't say that Travis Scott intended to interfere with the emergency worker's efforts, but he should have damn well known that starting the music back up before the situation was clear was an idiotic move. Ignorance, and intent often look extremely similar.",
"Like a tumbleweed in the desert",
"This guy is a real p.o.s.",
"This’ll be shown at this court appearance for all of this. Not lookin to good for him here.",
"That's very disappointing to hear. Do you happen to have a link to the interview, or whatever, where she said this?",
"He still has a graphic picture on his Instagram of a fan that died at one of his shows in 2015",
"Yeah, that's pretty true, I mean people dancing on top of the medical truck trying to help passed out people is beyond fucked up. \n\nFuck these clowns.",
"I don't think Travis deserves all the blame, alot of it but not all. But this right here was were he could've saved lives. All he had to do was pause the show, and ask the crowd to make room for the Ambulance. Even if this wouldn't have saved lives, it would've atleast made it seemed like he cared. Him continuing the show right after seeing this was a aggregous.",
"Whaaaatt? No really? That is a huge fuckin bummer",
"Garbage music, garbage human",
"I mean that just reinforced the negligence and incompetence of the event management/tour promoter (Live Nation). Maybe there was communication problems or maybe the problem was that the communication was not what it should have been, it’s hearsay until a court sorts that out. \n\nWhat’s clearly shown in this this video though is TS pauses his performance, acknowledges the fact that emergency services are being provided in the crowd, and then encourages the crowd to collectively disregard the situation. Which is the same thing as promoting interference with emergency services in this context. \n\nI can’t tell you how many metal and hardcore concerts I’ve been to where varying degrees of performer intervention occurred. Sometimes stopping the show, sometimes calling out one POS in the pit, and sometimes even giving props to the crowd because they can see that everyone is looking out for each other despite the structured chaos that is a metal pit. \n\nIt’s actually astounding how much TS disregarded the well-being of his fans in this context.",
"Feel free to disagree. Autotune has always, and will always, sound like shit.\n\nOn a side note, you didn't disagree at all. I said any autotune is excessive, and you said excessive autotune isn't bad. Those statements are not contradictory.",
"Source: trust me bro\n\nYou ever hear of confirmation bias?",
"Almost everyone knows who Chris Brown and Rihanna are and that he beat the shit out of her. \n\nI mean, this comment is under another talking about Chris Brown and you can't figure out that **Brown** is referring to Chris **Brown**?",
"I never comment. But this comment is fucking stupid beyond stupid.",
"Look at the pfp of the guy who made the video",
"Sure bud, i bet eminem is your favorite rapper too, and half of logic.",
"If they had sprinklers zero people would have died.",
"While an ambulance tries to get through the crowd and is shown on the giant screen. Yeah, a total fucking douche...",
"That was almost the craziest part. The girl reaching out to fix the other woman’s top is further down, trapped in greater danger but is reaching out not for help but to delicately adjust another lady’s top. I would think I’d be in a good deal more panic if I were in her position.",
"\"Don't forget about me today\"",
"Nobody seems to remember but people have died at concerts before, look up The Rolling Stones concert with Hells Angels. I don't really see much if any of this being on him as much as the organizers, security, etc. He's a performer not a security expert or event organizer. \n\nIf he was told to stop explicitly and kept going sure but the organizers and security need to develop a better system of controlling crowds, capacity limits, etc. I went to outside lands a few years ago and something similar happened, luckily not as bad but it totally could have happened. But the organizers don't give a shit bc they want to sell as many tickets as they can.\n\nA lot more can be done but I really don't think this should fall on the artists in the least bit.",
"Even more baffling, Rihanna herself went on to collab with Chris Brown again after that entire ordeal.",
">my job would be to keep the crowed focused on me so the paramedics could do their job.\n\nWhy would you not stop and start directing the crowd to get out of their way?",
"Well Axl also refused to play a show after James Hetfield was critically burned which caused a huge riot in Montreal, as well as a bunch of other shows, so let's maybe not use him as a great example of crowd control.\n\nEDIT: Downvotes, really? For pointing out that Axl Rose is basically the poster child for disrespecting his fans at shows and not giving a fuck? This is literally his reputation. He's been arrested for it, as well as assaulting security guards.",
"Thank you.",
"\"IT WAS AWESOME!\" - Tim Sweeney, Fortnight CEO, probably.",
"Battle of the Bastards for real.",
"Travis barker was literally **the only** talented member of Blink-182",
"any rap/EDM concerts where teenagers are doing molly is going to have people passing out and ambulances",
"I went to hundreds of gigs in venues just like The Station in the late 2000's, and I'm weirdly glad I watched that video. \n\n\nNow I always check for exits while I'm enjoying my first pint, and know that the way I came in should never be my first choice. \n\n\nI'll never forget it.",
"Reddit(and basically everyone else) hates lil dicky what you talking about?",
">and I can't understand what he was thinking\n\nNot a lot, by the looks. Guy's a fucking idiot.",
"So... nothing.",
"If you're talking about personal responsibility in large packed crowds then i don't think you do understand how and why it can happen. \n\nIt's happened at sporting events before, religious events, etc. It's a crowd issue much more than just a bunch of individuals needing to make better choices.",
"How old-fashioned are you? \n\nOlder than Rage Against the Machine? \n\nOlder than Jesus? Because Hindu ragas with roots starting in 1000 BC have been used in studies to show that anger can be encoded in music in ways that people recognize across cultures.\n\nThen there's talking about \"words you can make out\" when those same studies are showing we have the ability to pick up anger encoded in classical music. And then don't forget about people headbanging to Swedish death metal and a million other imported genres.\n\n\nLike, show me one modern genre that does not have \"angry\" music. Just one, so that we don't have to talk about the uncomfortable reality that this is just thinly veiled \"hip hop bad\" and that's just a thinly veiled version of something else...",
"8?!?! Holy fuck.",
"Wow what a piece of shit.",
"The only thing I hate more than these entitled, stupid bozos who lack the ability to understand and empathize... Are the hundreds of thousands of entitled, stupid bozos, who follow and worship. \n\nYou wonder how people like this exist, and it's because there's hoards of people who fuel and allow it.",
"Crazy. What happened to the unwritten rules where if someone goes down everyone gives them space to get up? Even then, if it was too much for someone they could always get crowd surfed over the railing at the front.",
"From what I barely know about Japanese people, even after visiting Tokyo, is that they generally do not act in such a way that would result in something like Houston happening. I mean, they were pretty much the only country that would clean up their area after a World Cup match.",
"I never liked this guy to begin with and I wasn’t sure why. Now I have a very good reason.",
"I'm not under a rock, I just don't listen to shitty music.",
"Back of this motherfuckas head look like a prime rib steak.",
"He’s the dude that did a Fortnite concert I believe",
">Giving the finger to them doesn't mean shit if it doesn't affect their ability to help the person.\n\nYou're implying him telling the entire crowd to flip off this ambulance didn't cause the fucking idiots to be more fucking idiotic?",
"Yeah this is damning evidence",
"uh no... The gun handler who handed Baldwin the gun had other instances of safety negligence. Scott encourages riots, encouraged people to break into this concert, release the promo video with riots and breaking through security gates.",
"$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$",
"…okay.",
"Why?",
"Ditto. Nothing has haunted my nightmares like the Station fire video. Those screams turning into silence are forever seared into my memory.",
"The Transplants! Also anything MGK asks him to be a part of",
"> I wear the downvotes like a badge of honor\n\nMonster reddit moment!",
"Everyone ripping on this turd. Don’t forget the thousands who paid to see this turd. The ones who finance his turdness",
"Don’t know if who is more damn stupid, this rapper or the crowd following his instructions. People are so damn stupid.",
"Yeah, he seems like an absolute dipshit. Like, I’m sure he didn’t want people to die, but it’s like he’s too stunned to realize cause and effect.",
"Yep exactly this , work in the UK police and go to alot of fatal car accidents.\n\nPeople will record off their phones and shove it in your face while you are trying to save lives. If you tell them to back off they will wet themselves with happiness that they are arguing with a cop on camera, never giving a thought about the poor person having the worse day of their lives",
"Here’s how Pearl Jam handled a similar tragedy:\n[https://variety.com/2020/music/news/pearl-jam-roskilde-festival-20-years-1234694973/#!](https://variety.com/2020/music/news/pearl-jam-roskilde-festival-20-years-1234694973/#!)",
"Oh? How do you know what they said? Is there a link for what they told him?",
"My girlfriend at the time said the people who were killed in that terrorist attack at Ariana Grande's concert deserved it for \"liking shitty music\".\n\nI like dark humor but this was literally seconds after we heard the news. We broke up a few days later.",
"Sooooo, is he cancelled yet?",
"They were my first concert almost 20 years ago in San Francisco!",
"I see what you're saying, but for them to work it seems you have to have a crowd that respects the rules and enforcement by security, etc. Because otherwise can't people just basically side step them and keep packing further and further up? I've been trying to find something more visual because I'm not able to really picture it in my head. And I was actually thinking about Hillsborough as an example of how it can backfire. I remember reading about that. I've never liked crowds and now between all the shootings (hooray America!) and these crush events, I'm straight up avoiding them entirely, at least in enclosed areas, and I'm always looking for exits.",
"How is this guy so rich and so popular? His music is god fucking terrible. Is he popular with the zoomers?? I’m 34 I don’t get it help",
"Thats fair, personally I think Live Nation is most at fault but also the thousands of rabid fans that would trample someone to get 3 feet closer to a stage share in the blame.",
"Right you are, it used to called the Berlin Love Parade until they changed venues",
"This guy is a piece of shit. His music sucks too.",
"Being as you're the only one repeatedly making this claim, please point me to the timestamp in the posted video with them jumping off the stage? I must keep missing it in this video.",
"I'm assuming cocaine was involved.",
"I blame the zombie crowd and only.",
"That’s what happens when you care more about the unit/society than the individual.",
"Love em, had no idea he was in the early version. Thanks for sharing.",
"Oh wow I thought they were lying about racist comments",
"Agreed. Even in this video you can hear someone in the crowd yell \"all the more reason to rage!\" when the ambulance is pointed out.",
"Almos6 bought VIP for a different concert and I think im good now...",
"He can't just stop the show. His autotune set is on a timer.",
"30:54 https://youtu.be/1Q1AF00SqXE",
"He clearly stopped and waited for the ambulance to do what it needed to do. The middle fingers were a way to get the crowd back engaged they weren’t saying fuck ambulances",
"Why do kids like him?",
"I find it interesting the type of people who get famous and then who are talked about endlessly. Humans are strange.",
"Can't wait for him to suddenly slip and fall",
"Pool party baby, it was a cool party. Cool pool party, lalalala",
"Bro, you can see like 10-20 shows at a festival on one weekend, 200 ain't shit",
"He did say make way for the ambulance in this video",
"Ice Cube sitting at home like:\n\nMotherfucker, you are not NWA.",
"FYI: The middle finger part has nothing to do with the ambulance. He does that before some of his songs. Though it might not have been the right decision to do it at that moment.",
"Isn't it mostly beaten women that still like him?",
"Fork knife? Wtf is that? Damn kids #abesimpson",
"Agree to an extent. There should definitely be backup safety protocols that can be enacted for instances like this. And it's hard to expect an artist to notice and recognize everything that's going on in the crowd while they are busy performing. But in this particular instance, where the artist is made aware of the situation but then continues to be a shit stain, the artist should be held liable.",
"No you see his crowds are a fight to the death. Everyone's stabbing each other Fortnite battle royale style.",
"Lol. No. My favourite rap is none.",
"> He was catapulted to his status for his musical mind\n\nAnd catapulting things that are so light they float on air is not trivial.\n\nSeriously, *what* musical mind? Because of this being in the news everywhere, I've listened to the music. It's shit. The beats are simple. There's a bassline. There's autotune/melodyne noise and banal lyrics. And the rapping isn't good, either. He sounds like all the amateur rappers in the 2000s that uploaded their horrible \"music videos\" somewhere and then were mocked incessantly for it. And this is only his fault to a very small degree, because the fucking writing credits on \"Astroworld\" are longer than the songs themselves.",
"I’m OOTL, can someone give me a quick recap please?",
"Never heard of him. Glad I shouldn't hear more of him after this.",
"This guy's a fucking loser. Throw the book at him.",
"Everything I've read about him... yes, he would have security for just himself. Lots of it. But somebody focused on taking care of the crowd and getting him to do the right thing and stop mid-show? \n\nI highly doubt anybody on Travis' team was enabled and brave enough to tell him to stop the show. Probably from years of egging on this exact shit at his concerts and not listening to safety guys. \n\nSo there really is a chance that zero people from his crew told Travis what was going on during this night. Because he created a toxic situation where nobody who could reach him or stop the show would be willing or able.",
"Travis Travis III",
"I was in something like this at Miami Ultra a while back. Everyone was cramming in to see Dead Mau5 in a surprise set, and the people who weren’t near the stage yet kept pushing harder. Everyone shoulder to shoulder, and packed so tight you can barely breathe. Then people start stumbling and you have to lean on the next person to hold yourself up. If they go down, there’s nothing you can do because several hundred pounds of people are pushing you in tighter.\n\nThankfully everyone was fine and we got the people in the back to chill the fuck out, but it could easily go the other way if they were aggressive and kept pushing harder. You know, like if the performer encouraged it….",
"I’m sorry but for what he did he should be rotting in jail.",
"I'm glad I'm not the only one.",
"I'm going to my first concert in over a decade within two weeks and have been getting even more anxious about it than I was initially. I'm not a fan of huge large crowds either. The only slight relief I'm feeling is that it's a metal show.",
"Piece of shit",
"What sort of music do you enjoy that makes you so much more intelligent?",
"You said you didn’t see any people mention race and I showed them. Sorry you’re so butthurt.",
"Bill Crosby isn’t a thing.",
"I was caught in a crowd surge/crush once, it was terrifying - the pressure is intense and comes so suddenly. Everyone around you is caught in the same wave. My friend was lifted off her feet briefly. We managed to wriggle to an edge and out to safety. We were really lucky, dozens of people were injured. This was Edinburgh’s Hogmanay street party in the mid-90s, back when it was a free-for-all. I think there were like 350,000 people there. The following year they closed off the city centre and limited numbers.",
"He knew something dangerous was happening. Kylie, Kendall, Stormy, Travis’s mom, and the rest of his VIP box were escorted out by security- about thirty minutes into his set. Someone in charge knew things were going dangerously wrong. Coincidentally, they were removed right around the time the police say they were reporting it as a “mass casualty event.” \n\nThey told him to stop performing. People came out on stage and talked to him.\n\nBut, let’s say he didn’t know people were dying…..he saw people being removed who were unconscious. That shouldn’t be such a normalized occurrence during his shows, that nobody thought to step in and do something. Most musicians have a conscience and a soul, and aren’t alright with seeing their fans in serious danger. \n\nHe knew, his security knew, and his crew knew. They just didn’t care enough to take it seriously. And are now trying to pass off their own liability.",
"Exactly.",
"No wonder the Kardashians like him.",
"Wow. Scum... Total scum.",
"Ask the class to write a paper on domestic violence (or whatever you can get away with). They get to learn and they all hate that fuckin kid.",
"He did? I heard the venue was \"up to code\" for a 600,000 people gathering apparently.",
"Guess you’ve not had the misfortune of seeing the one where HPD graciously drops a dead girl on her head.",
"A full on mouth breather.",
"So he CLEARLY knew something was wrong and did not give a flip about his fans. Sorry he didn't give TWO flips about them.",
"Have you been to a big concert? Kinda hard to hear the audience from the stage. :P",
"What do you expect from someone that’s with a kardashian.",
"No joke, I had never heard of Travis Scott before this story came out. I literally had no idea who he was, until I saw the Astroworld thing on the news. Can anyone sort of specify, is he like a top tier rapper, like super famous, like Biggie or Snoop famous? Or is he like a mid tier guy?",
"I hate the music industry as much as the next guy, but in this case, Brown's continued having of a career can't be pinned entirely on his label, or anybody else he's making money for.\n\nHe has a career because people still listen to him, more's the pity. If people weren't *spending* money on him, nothing anyone else could do would ensure his career continued.",
"Why would you judge somebody by what they were charged with and exonerated of? Judge him for his lyrics if you want but your comment uses pretty terrible reasoning to try to make a point.",
"Like i said, racists out in full force to spread negativity towards the genre populated by mostly black artists.",
"Same here. And I am starting to think he might be a pretty shitty human being.",
"Well, I thought you meant actually asking people to do stupid shit, not just hyping shit up...",
"his real name is Jacques",
"Except he's probably like most musicians and makes most of his money through shows and he just became toxic goods for a venue to let him perform. The Rhianna thing with Chris Brown never had anything to do with concert safety or legal liability, so the only risk was that people might not like him anymore. \n\nBut this shit is a \"we can't insure your shows anymore\" level fuck up, which the powers that be will care about.",
"He's dumb. But looking at his history, he's also vicious. So he doesn't get to play the dumb card.",
"What a fucking take this is. I'm all in. I'll support this point of view til the day I die.",
"There’s a “why.” It’s just not the same as your “why”. This piece of has no empathy. You probably do. Just stop trying to put yourself in his shoes and accept that there people out there who are just plain horrible.",
"I’d be surprised if he doesn’t lose a bunch of sponsorships. Celebrities have definitely suffered after stupid actions like this.",
"Fucking pos should be ashamed",
"Fuck this guy",
"Fucking psychopath",
"Right? People are clutching their pearls over the fact that he said something like “I want you to make the ground quake.” While we’re at it, let’s arrest everyone who ever suggested that we must “rock the house” or “make some noise.” People who don’t know shit about the law read criminality into the most benign shit.",
"what kind of twisted minds listen to this bitchslap looking motherfucker",
"Wow a conservative racist? Such a rarity.",
"Totally legit question for you my friend. I respect your take here, and I would very much like to hear what you may have to say about one thing for me. \n\nI have observed, in my many years of concert attendance*, that without fail, the heavier the metal music being played at the show... the kinder the audience members are to one another. This includes inside the mosh pit. \n\nSo given the aggression in the actual art, why are metal shows so tame? \n\nPerhaps you have an insight for me? \n\n*saw my first show, Testament, Annihilator, Wrathchild America in '88 or '89 in College Park MD.",
"Nope there are hundreds of videos of performers stopping the show to save someone. At this same show Travis even said “I see y’all all the way in the back”",
"Nobody is doing that. What would his rival gang be? \n\nWho are you talking about?",
"When jail",
"Yeah I do not get this. Rappers seem to have Teflon careers for sure. \n\nI don't follow rap so much but I'm a big metal fan. There's definitely a lot of misogyny and toxicity in death metal circles etc. But a lot of bands have had big problems and even had to disband because their vocalist or whoever got canceled for saying some horrible shit. The fan base kind of disowns them too.\n\nThese guys straight assault people and still get to tour, and still have millions of fans, i don't fucking get it.",
"No way dude. Those albums dropped way before him.\n\nWatching movies with the sound off? You got your timeline all fucked up.",
"You don't get that popular making bad music lol. Unless you're trying to imply your music taste is superior to everyone else's. He's probably the 2nd biggest artist in hiphop and his impact & influence on it is undeniable.",
"It’s not stupidity, imo. It’s narcissism. It doesn’t affect him, he’s not in danger, so why should he care? He’s got a show to put on and he’s getting paid for it. It’s just pure, unhinged selfishness.",
"It was actually a really cool visual experience, but still after learning all I have now, fuck that guy.",
"The only idiots are people who believe the words of a short comment are sufficient to read intent, and people whose usernames are Spice Girls lyrics.",
"He knew what was up and was totally okay with it. There was no music playing and you could hear the fans clear as day, 50,000+ people saying the same thing and you think he didn’t hear it?",
"Don't let the fans off the hook. The reason they make that money is because a lot of their fans don't give a shit and continue to support them. Look how willing that crowd was to obey their celebrity hero and shit on EMTs. Actual god damn heroes that save live every day, and one word from this scum turned a whole crowd against them.",
"So you havent been to a big ass show?\n\nYes, him saying he see them means he acknowledge that there are people in the back. Not that he can hear what they are yelling over the thousands of people also yelling shit between them and him...\n\nYes, I've seen videos of performers stopping shows. And I saw videos of Travis Scott pausing this specific show twice to let people get rescued or to let EMS do their shit.",
"Fire in a theatre, but in reverse right? Seems like this is the kinda speech that gets you locked up",
"I couldn't tell if it was the human reaction to drowning, reaching for anything to get out, or someone trying to cop a feel/glimpse in the middle of all that chaos.",
"Very cool of you",
"Dude's just too smooth brained to stray from the script lol",
"He has already been arrested twice for starting a riot and being a public danger but sure he’s innocent right now. He spit on a fan and told people to beat him up at another concert because the teen tried to get his shoe off. The kid was 15.",
"So you know that he knew that people were dying? Or do you know that he knew that people were passed out?\n\nThere is quite a difference.\n\nAnd no, 50k+ people wasnt saying the same thing. \n\nWhy dont you produce the videos of a 50k crowd yelling what you claim they yelled? Got a hard time finding the video? Why not just post it?",
"The more I learn about this guy the worse he gets!\nCancel him!",
"Like ‘don’t ever meet your heroes’ but in this instance people legit died for going to this jerk’s concert. What a massive narcissistic piece of work.",
"Looks like someone signaled to him that everything was okay.",
"THANK YOU! I could have sworn I saw them jump in from a different angle, but I haven’t been able to find when it happened.\n\nI was reading the festivals rules and it specifically says “no stage diving, moshing, or crowd surfing.” I guess that doesn’t apply to those assholes.\n\nI can’t imagine being in that dense a crowd and then having someone jack hammer me in the face.",
"My exact thought process. Oh, this video isn't so bad, the middle finger is just his subversive way to make sure the crowd is --\n\n> but then he drops the beat and starts rapping,\n\nah, well, nevertheless",
"Oh my god you must be horny for him or something. Watch the videos, there’s a video of him watching a lifeless body being taken from the crowd while he sings “yeahhh” in auto tune.",
"So? He is a douche yes I agree.\n\nBut do you seriously think he knew people were dead in the crowd and he actively tried to incite more violence? Because that's kinda what you argue. Care to present any proof?",
"He was probably high",
"Oh I don’t think he’s innocent, I just think that there are plenty of others who are very guilty. \n\n1. The promoter should have shut off the house mic and forced and announcement.\n\n2. His handlers should have relayed the nature of what was going on. \n\n3. The venue should have raised the lights. \n\nAll of this risks anger, which is why for a venue of this size and a promotion of this level, there is absolutely no excuse that there wasn’t a plan in place for an event of this kind. I can’t imagine that anyone who works in any kind of security would tell you that there isn’t a risk of thanking in big crowds like this.",
"There’s a show on Netflix called Bonfire of Destiny (horrible title). It’s based on a true event of a fire that started at a women’s charity bazaar back in Paris in 1897. The episode that portrays the fire is soul crushing. People being trampled to death in doorways, men beating down women with their canes just to get ahead, and women catching on fire when their large skirts ignite. I believe 125 women died in the fire. It’s super intense and not for the faint of heart. It resonated with me though, and definitely made me more exit conscious.",
"Shit...what if I have three?",
"He wouldn't be capable of making that money at all if fans had any sense of decency and stopped supporting him. With a few words, that crowd turned on emergency medical personnel. That's a disgusting lack of moral fortitude, and no matter what, they will stay his fans because they *enjoy this*. They like that he's such a piece of shit. They defend it.\n\nWhich seems kind of familiar doesn't it? Toxic celebrities attract toxic people, a concept that everyone in this country should be very familiar with by now. And those toxic people bare responsibility for raising that toxic person up.",
"Fuck Travis Scott",
"Travis Travis the Threevis?",
"There were 100,000 people there! I said 50,000 as an estimate I think it’s fair to say half the people there were yelling.",
"Yeah I've been to punk and metal shows where the band literally stopped playing until someone who was hurt in the mosh pit got help. The entertainers in these scenarios have complete control of the situation",
"The only people I've seen mention race are the ones that complain about the supposed people making this about his race.",
"it’s not so simple. I’ve been in a similar situation, it’s not like you can just step back and give the fallen person room. The pressure of the crowd is so great that it takes everything you have not to just step or fall onto them. Not to mention it’s incredibly difficult to get someone up once the crowd is pushing that hard.",
"Videos not working for me. Anyone else?",
"I've seen the video, people pass out hundreds of times on big shows.\n\nMaybe if you went out, touched some grass and went to an actual show you would realize what actually goes on at big concerts...\n\nAnd I was simply asking for some videos of what you claim happemned. You keep claiming there are videos and you refuse to post the videos, why? I want to see them...",
"Had no idea he was black",
"The logic goes like this:\n\n\"I don't like their stuff (or I haven't heard of them), which means they have no talent.\"",
"Throw that motherfucker in jail",
"Wonder what the damage control social media campaign is. Lots of sock puppet accounts over multi platforms. Mitigating alongside outright deflection? He couldn't see. Too dumb to understand. Shift the focus to the crowd, the cops, anyone.",
"I'd read the extremely graphic description of her injuries from start to finish.",
"It's not like the old days anymore where presentation of music was the same for everyone with the main avenue being radio. With the move to streaming people just listen to all sorts of different songs, and it feels like tastes have become a lot more diverse with the options available. Hell, even on my playlist I don't remember the names of most of the artists names, since I'll add it because the song sounded good and then listen to another random song recommended to me.",
"Which was crazy because there is a legit argument that Rihanna is the most popular pop star on the planet.",
"Lol butt street boys.. saw lamb of God in concert about 10 years back. Think that was the definition of intense. 1000s of people in a field. One giant pit.",
"Cringe lord with trash music",
"There were a total of 50k people there...\nWhy are you making shit up?\n\nThe 100k was spread over two days you know...\n\n>About 50,000 people were at the sold-out Astroworld Festival at NRG Park -- the stadium complex where the Astrodome and the NRG Stadium stand -- when the incident began just after 9 p.m. CT, officials said.\n\nStop lying...",
"Tell your mom. Tell your dad they were super rad.",
"Correlation does not equal causation homie",
"I’m not doing anything for you. You are uneducated on the subject and have done no research, you can literally google what I said. Defend him all you want I’m done with you.",
"Least he could’ve done was say “make room for the ambulance” then continue not giving a fuck. He couldn’t even do that…",
"Where? I can't see shit.",
"gotta have somebody to blame I guess.",
"You're right. I don't know US rules but surely safety plans have to be submitted prior?",
"Are you mentally ill? Do you repeatedly slam your head into a wall for fun?",
"I'm uneducated? You dont even know how many people actually attended to the show...\n\nYou are boosting up the numbers twofold to make some kinda point for some stupid reason...",
"*Who's the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?”*\n\nEither way, it makes no sense to give 1st responders disrespect for tending to people who clearly needed it. The crush is serious, and these guys should know about it.",
"Jesus that is terrifying. Reminds me of the battle of winterfell scene in game of thrones, just stuck in a sea of bodies",
"Barker is very talented, has done some side projects worth looking at",
"The trial is going to be a spectacular event for sure...",
"From the police report \"A verbal argument ensued and Brown\npulled a vehicle over in an unknown\nstreet. Reach over Robyn F with his right hand and open the car door and\nattempted to force her out. Brown was\nunable to force Robyn F out of the vehicle because she was wearing a seat belt. When he could not force her to exit he took his right hand and shoved her head against the passenger window of the vehicle causing an approx 1 inch raised circular contusion.\n\n\"Robyn F turned to face Brown and\npunched her in the left eye with right\nhand. He then drove away in the vehicle\nand continued to punch her in the face\nwith his right hand while steering the\nvehicle with his left hand. The assault\ncaused Robyn F Osmouth to fill with\nblood and blood to splatter all over her\nclothing and the interior of the vehicle.\nBrown looked at Robyn F and stated \"I\nam going to beat the s-t out of you when we get home! You wait and see!?\n\"Robyn F picked her cellular phone and\ncalled her personal assistant Jennifer\nRosales. Rosales did not answer the\ntelephone but while her um greeting was playing Robyn F pretended to talk to her and stated \"I am on my way home. Make sure the cops are there when I get there?\n(this statement was made while greeting was playing and was not captured) after Robyn f faked the call, Brown and looked at her and stated, You just did the stupidest thing ever! Now I really am going to kill you.\n\n\"Brown resumed punching Robyn F and\nshe interlocked her fingers behind her\nhead and brought her elbows forward to protect her face. She then bent over at the waist placing her elbows and face near her lap and in attempt to protect her face and head from the barrage of punches being levied by Brown.\nBrown continued to punch Robyn F on\nher left arm and hands, causing her to\nsuffer a contusion on her left triceps that was approx 2 inches in diameter and numerous contusions on her left hand. Robyn f attempted to send another text message to other personal assistant Melissa Ford.\n\nBrown snatched the cellular telephone\nout of her hand and threw it out of the\nwindow to an unknown street. Brown\ncontinued driving and Robyn F observed his cellular phone in his lap. She picked up the cellular phone with her left hand, and before she could make a call, he placed her in a head lock with right hand and continued to drive the vehicle with his left hand.\n\n\"Brown held Robyn F close to him and bit her on her left hear. She was able to feel the vehicle swerving from right to left as Brown sped away. He stopped the vehicle in front of [address] and Robyn F turned off the car removed the key from ignition and sat on it.\nBrown did not know what she did with\nthe key and began punching her in the\nface and arms. Brown began applying\npressure to Robyn F left and right carotid arteries causing her to be unable to breath. She began to lose consciousness. She reached up with her left hand and began to attempting to gauge his eyes in attempt to flee herself. Brown bit her left ring and middle fingers and released her. While brown continued to punch her she\nturned around a place her back to\nagainst the passenger door. She brought her knees to her chest and placed her against Brown,s body and began pushing him away.\n\n\"Brown continued to punch her on legs\nand feet causing several contusions.\nRobyn F began screaming for help. And\nBrown exited the vehicle and walked\naway. A resident in the neighbor heard\nRobyn E,s plea for help and called 911,\ncausing a police response. An investigation was conducted and Robyn F was issued a domestic violence protective order (EPO).\n\nSorry if the formatting was bad. I copied with OCR from the report.",
"Kinda looked like he got the okay to continue.",
"I teach kindergarten and leaving too much “hang time” to pull up a video or look for something is dangerous. The kids check out. I often tell the kids to “clap your hands 10 times” or “tell someone sitting by you what your favorite food is” just to keep them engaged while I turn my back for one minute. \n\nI feel like that’s what he’s doing. Like he’s trying to figure out what’s going on and so to keep the audience engaged he tells them to hold up a middle finger. And then two! Lol. \n\nNot saying he’s not a douche though.",
"People died not just passed out and there was someone injecting people with shit! You are fucking crazy to act like this is normal",
"I think the intent is to make an example of him. And if it works, other famous people might see that he is being held accountable for his actions (or lack thereof) and might take measures to ensure something like this doesn't happen at their shows.",
"It's probably moreso because his base is predominantly young, so there's less exposure outside that crowd. Only time many of us have heard of the guy was during the McDonald's promotion and the fortnite thing, both obviously aimed at his young audience.\n\nBTW, you know it's \"might as well,\" right?",
"He honestly just seems dumb af too",
"There were people injecting people? You have proof?\n\nONE security guard claimed that shit, nothing have been proven.\n\nAnd yes, there is a difference from passing out and dying. But how would you see the difference from far away when you are up on stage? Ohyeah, you wont.\n\nStop being so emotionally invested in something you have no idea about.",
"looked like he got the go ahead.",
"Metal music is shit. It’s just a bunch of noise and is boring as hell, plus never has anything interesting to say",
"And did that stop Jackie Chan making movies?",
"That video is probably the most disturbing thing I've seen from that night, more so than the cpr videos. At least to me, the shear fucking nightmare of suffocation to death on a pile of bodies while you scream for help while nobody can hear. Then you hear the music start. \"Yeahhhhh.....It's Lit, Wooo\" as your screaming is drowned out by bass and auto tuned vocals while you drown in a sea of flesh.",
"HA HA HA. Come on now, cLeArLy he was trying to calm everyone down. \n\nI have seen some huge logical leaps from people trying to justify his behavior…this one is something else.",
"Fuck you go suck his dick you shitty ass person acting like this shit is normal",
"Dunno if he knew someone died, but there’s a solid 30 seconds of him clearly being told something from someone\n\nIf it was “dude, stop people are dying” or it’s “there’s some kinda situation going on in the crowd” and he didn’t clock what that meant",
"Fun fact, his real name is apparently Jacques Bermon Webster II.",
"I miss fyre fest",
"I’m gonna regret even arguing this garbage but look and listen again. He clearly says middle finger and clearly sticks out his gloved middle finger.",
"Man, if not having heard of Travis Scott qualifies me as living under a rock, I'll own the shit out of that lol. I'll be digging out a nice spacious hobbit hole under there, and that means comfort. Elevensies will be bacon and eggs with dippy yolks and fresh crusty bread with butter and honey.",
"I think I’m going to start watching the kardashians now to see how they run his PR campaign /s",
"No 11 people suffered from cardiac arrest and suspected to have been injected too",
"Bruh the posts in that sub are some of the most racist things I’ve seen in a long time",
"Negative news sells. Velcro Teflon Theory neuroscience came out with speaks to this. We have to be pretty conscious to counter it. We’ve not evolved to do so, yet.",
"Fuck this guy.",
"\"suspected\"",
"Not only did he claim it but it was proven he was",
"As somebody who didn’t know who Travis Scott was before this, just going by the video it looks like he’s concerned at first, then gets confirmation everything is fine and proceeds with the show.",
"It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out for live nation and music festivals in general.",
"Nah fuck that, if anyone with an ounce of empathy was performing on stage and saw an ambulance literally driving up into the crowd, that’s a pretty fucking clear sign that something is wrong. Only a narcissist wouldn’t give a shit and keep performing and doing what they want in spite of it. Travis didn’t need anyone to tell him what he could see with his own eyes. You are a fucking enabling asshat.",
"He is *such* a piece of shit. Why does he have fans?",
"Fuck off we’re done. I’m not doing homework for you believe what you want",
"Why so rude?\n\nWhy make up that there were 100k people there when there were 50k?\n\nI'm simply asking for the videos you claim to have seen with 50k people yelling for the show to be stopped.",
"Criminal negligence gonna be hard to disprove at this point.. I don’t think he was anticipating such an event bc it hasn’t been seen before but there has to be a division of bodies at a concert.",
"when you meet jesus tell him cactus jack sent you",
"Care to post a link where it was proven?\n\nI am legit interested in seeing it. Because I havent seen shit except for some security guard claiming he felt a prick and nothing more than that.",
"Is that the same one that ends with Travis looking at the guy then starting some autotuned line?",
"No. The fire marshal is not part of the police department. Also it’s kind of unrealistic that one specific person should be attending every event where X amount of people are expected. Especially for a city like Houston but really anywhere in a major metropolitan area. What I think should be implemented (and maybe already is) is a mass casualty plan before permits get issued and a trained professional present at the event to direct emergency response without directly being involved so they can maintain the big picture",
"He could see someone in a tree clear across the audience. He could see what was happening right in front of him.",
"It's ironic to say hip-hop today has less nuance than it used to because that is a decidedly un-nuanced opinion. Hip-hop is like 40 years old and has a much larger and broader culture than it did when it first started.",
"Your homework was fucking horrible, you cant even figure out how many people were attending. And you told me we were done 10 comments ago?\n\n>About 50,000 people were at the sold-out Astroworld Festival at NRG Park -- the stadium complex where the Astrodome and the NRG Stadium stand -- when the incident began just after 9 p.m. CT, officials said.",
"All the people defending him and intentionally ignoring ALL the ridiculous moral emptiness of this shitbag need to eat a Travis Scott inspired burger 5 times a day for the rest of their lives. What a fucking waste.",
"A quick Google of \"astroworld capacity\" brings this up from Newsweek:\n\n>According to Houston fire chief Peña, based on fire codes, the venue could have held 200,000 people. But the attendance was limited to 50,000 by city officials, AP reported. Peña said: \"It was the crowd control at the point of the stage that was the issue, especially as the crowd began to surge toward the stage.\"",
"To anyone who has played GTA San Andreas this clown is the real version of OGLock a clown who can't sing and still gets to be famous",
"> all-ages gig\n\nI’ve been to hundred+ of them (punk and hardcore does all ages by default)…..even children understand that people don’t want to be crushed.",
"I keep asking myself this question. There is literally a whole group of sound engineers who are actively mixing the performance, who have the power to cut the sound at any moment.",
" *Chris Brown has entered the chat*",
"The only time I've ever been in a mosh was accidental. It was Ozzfest, the band before them was White Zombie and I figured I'd get close but not so close that I'd be in the mosh. They timed it so Sabbath went on just as the sun went down and the minute they started, bam, I was off the ground. In those days I was 6'1\" and 140lb, I just got swept away wherever the crowd took me. Somehow held on to my joint, no harm done, but I'll never do that again.",
"Your consent or theirs?",
"Fuck.that. \n\nThose people...i cant imagine what they went through, or the emotional trauma they might suffer from.this.",
"He has 43 million followers on Instagram alone.",
"Fuck him.",
">Obviously the secret to success is to beat the shit out Rhianna.\n\nBut *Battleship* wasn't very successful.",
"Come on, that gives a bad name to that brain cell",
"Fuck this piece of trash",
"I never heard of him until now. Sounds like a huge piece of shit.",
"Once again American people had a President tell people to take over the capital and he may run for president again…",
"A crowd crush does not allow you to willingly bend down to help someone up or give anyone space.\n\nThe pressure is coming from every direction because, while you’re desperately trying to push yourself backwards to give yourself or someone else breathing room, you’re inadvertently pushing _everyone_ behind you, who are all pushing outwards just the same as you are. The people who you could argue are “causing” the crush are the ones all the way at the back, who have space, and who are completely oblivious that their movements are killing people half a football field away—because they’re at a massive concert with music blaring and can’t hear or see what’s happening so far away.\n\nYou can’t crowdsurf someone out because you can’t even move your own arms, how the hell are you going to pick someone up? Even if you could move, everyone is packed so tightly that pulling people out of the crush is near impossible. You can see how much difficulty they’re having pulling stuck fans out in [this video](https://twitter.com/azdaniels/status/1457028138140057604?s=20), and that’s when the people they’re trying to grab are conscious, the crowd is still spaced out enough that they can move a bit, _and_ when the people hoisting have freedom to move around. Now imagine trying to do the same thing when you’re actually _in_ the crowd.\n\nI was in a crowd crush-like situation at a festival… nothing this bad thankfully, I know a few people passed out but no one died to my knowledge. But it’s about the scariest thing I’ve ever experienced. You’re COMPLETELY helpless, there is literally nothing you can do. Everyone keeps comparing it to quicksand but I’ve experienced quicksand too, and I would choose that over another crowd crush with absolutely 0 hesitation.",
"Cancel this no talent Kardashian",
"Does he seem like a thinker?",
"Exactly. Before this happened I thought he was a DJ or some shit. I’ve never heard his music. People keep talking about it these “videos” that show him inciting riots and raping babies but all I’ve seen so far is him mutter some barely interesting shit on stage and being a dick to a photographer. Any time something is repeated over and over again the exact same way, you know it’s nothing but narrative. Someone, ANYONE, show me a video of him inciting a riot. Please, I want to see it.",
"Yeah but it's hard for a smaller person to push their way out of a fucked pit if no one is helping them get out. \n\nMetal/Punk/Hardcore people always help people clearly struggling. This show they were dancing on top of the medical carts while people were dying...",
"There’s a club where I live that spent a week or 2 promoting a whole astroworld themed event that was scheduled to happen a couple of days after this concert. Now they’re scurrying to try and take down all promotion and flyers for the event.",
"What a classy fellow.",
"I completely agree. It's the same reason we like extreme sports: we like to see people nearly die.\n\nIf something like the Squid Game existed IRL I'd bet it would get massive ratings.",
"Facts",
"Reading your comment made me glad I don't have two broken arms.",
"He had asked the crowd to do this at every concert before he performs the song “no bystanders”",
"> I cannot fathom how someone could look at this video where he is clearly confused and concerned for the first 20-30 seconds and think, \"What an asshole, he didn't even care!\"\n\nWe don't need this clip to know that. He encouraged the crowd to rush the stage, which resulted in multiple deaths. That's how I know he's an asshole.",
"Punk",
"People are being crushed…ambulance is trying to get through\n\nTravis Scott “I wanna feel the ground shake”",
"I thought it was that band Travis. Who knew any rendition of Sing could cause they kind of mayhem.",
"He’s got farts in his brain.",
"I feel like most of the fans in that crowd probably have a sub-70 IQ just based on how they acted and the things they were yelling.",
"Punk",
"Disgusting. I hope this is shown to the jury at his manslaughter trial.",
"What a piece of shit",
"Yep. Not a Travis Scott fan, but I can barely see the front row under stage lights let alone 100-150m out where the crush was occurring. \n\nIf my job is entertain and no one is in my ear telling me to stop, I'd assume the ambulance was for someone passed out from drugs or alcohol. Like every other festival I've been to.\n\nIf event staff were unable to see everyone, or couldn't rely the message to stop the show, or safety barriers weren't enforced that's a fault of the organizers.",
"He looks like he smells.. like he looks greasy and unwashed.",
"This is literally taking care of the individual though...",
"If you see someone get hurt, you stop the show and make sure they’re alright, bands do it all the time, there’s no reason for Travis Scott to keep performing. And he saw an ambulance, that’s probably enough reason right there to stop the show.",
"The issue here seems to be all staff involved don't understand health and safety. The motto of health and safety is that it's everyone's responsibility. As soon as you have an artist who doesn't take it seriously, they shouldn't be allowed in your show. All staff at all levels are responsible for noticing safety issues, including artists.",
"[Here's the nurse herself describing it](https://youtu.be/Mxz1hLLeYGo) for the local Houston news station. Totally surreal, to pass out in a crowd, have your boyfriend crowd surf you out to the back, then come to surrounded by injured and dying people and you just get up and jump into action saving lives.",
"holy shit. i can’t being floored, crying for help. Just for Travis to pause the show, see the ambulances and then play UPPER ECHELON of all songs. \n\nthat’s pouring gasoline on an already raging fire 🤦♂️",
"Hard to imagine Nike will be to pleased partnering their shoes with someone who enabled the trampling to death of 8 people either.",
"I kept thinking of Adam Scott and that was a very confusing time.",
"and Transplants",
"This walking Xanax bar should spend alot of time behind some other kind of bars.",
"Thing is, Astroworld is his concert. He is the boss. He hired Live Nation to manage it, but at the end of the day, Travis Scott owns the concert. \n\nSo even if Live Nation tells him there is an issue, he can still have his band and sound crew keep playing.",
"Simple equation for a simple mind.",
"I have no idea why someone would pay to see this dudes version of music. It blows ass, and then he’s just cool with people getting trampled too? \n\nFuck this guy he sucks, so does his music and honestly after seeing videos of the show coming out it looks like a large portion of his fans suck pretty sweaty balls too.\n\nI’m sure he’s got fans that are normal people, but damn the videos do not cast a good light on really anything associated with the performance.",
"Got any tips?",
"And this is who our younger generations look up to. This filthy flea infested wharf rat and his filthy mumbling toothless wharf rat 'music'. We're all doomed.",
"Gangsta.",
"Probably not during the show, but it comes down to the place being overcrowded in the end, so telling people to rush the stage was pretty fucking stupid, i mean already on the way in at the entrances it looked like people couldve died and 100% got hurt.",
"You'd be in the minority if you didn't know who Travis Scott was lol",
"Imagine actually paying money to see this concert or listen to his music. YouTube is free and relatively safe 🤯",
"I mean, 8 people died and many severely injured, a little more of an impact… \n\nNot giving Chris brown a pass, he’s still a horrible human, and he loss a massive fan base and recovered a small portion over years of new fans that aren’t aware of what happened because it slowly started getting covered up, just as this will… Just giving some perspective.",
"Sheep!",
"lol I swear every one of these threads it's just a bunch of people who are extremely out of touch with pop culture",
"This dude is living scum, fuck anything he makes holy shit.",
"Yeppyepp, organizers/security should have shut it down way before he even stepped on stage.",
"He looks like such a dumbass",
"*ad guy-* \n\nChange that to tender. It’s a *tender* McRib we can’t say crushed!",
"His comment had nothing to do with your solidarity... why bring it up like that's what he was hitting at?",
"We are all Travis Scott. We watch while the world is dying from pollution. We watch as corporations and capitalism turn us into consumers.",
"I've been in a few mosh pits at rock festivals and luckily my experience has always been positive. If you want out, someone will make sure you are pulled out. If you fall, everyone will stop and get you back up. \n\nIt really all depends on the crowd but I've always had a great time.",
"This guy is a piece of shit like rittenhouse. I see no difference. Nothing will happen.",
"Even Rihanna doesn't care",
"Stunt team? I thought he was the stunt team.",
"Lol hater smh",
"Don't forget Trent reznor",
"Undoubtedly. But in Europe they'd be locked up right now and not taking unapologetic videos on Instagram.",
"He needs to be charged. He is clearly directly responsible for those people's deaths.",
"Man if Chris Brown's could, then his probably won't even be scratched. What a dick head.",
"Yeah as said before it really depends on the size of the crowd everyone was trying to push people over to the railing but we weren’t even that close to the front and we were still getting the squeeze so there was so much you could really do. I’m sure some people had to go to the medical tent after that.",
"Don't defend him, at all.",
"The awful crowd mentality displayed here is horrifying.",
"Kinda racist to suggest that only race makes and performs it.\n\nBecause that's so far from the truth.",
"Fuck Travis Scott!",
"Multiple people have been seriously injured at multiple events of his from him directly encouraging their behavior. The fact that anyone is giving him the benefit of any doubt after even the first one is mind-blowing. He's complicit. What a scumbag.",
"I wonder how some people on this website get dressed in the morning honestly",
"So you *Browned* the shit out of her?",
"God damn.",
"I've been to countless shows that had just as poor management. That's why I don't go to big outdoor shows anymore. \n\nThe min-maxing for profit gets away much easier in the states. It two completely different standards.",
"Ugh. Trash",
"How large the fan base is won’t matter when no venue will allow him to play, nor will it matter when Live Nation and Ticketbastard refuse to accept him, after they lose their asses in court over Astroworld. Apple isn’t too thrilled with him either.",
"People have no concept of what it takes to present any concert, especially something bigger than a bar band...",
"Yeah that username confirms he's a fucking brain donor",
"I did a double take when I looked him up and he was a rapper",
"Been to a Travis Scott concert ? You might be entitled to compensation.",
"Excess and Surplus carriers exist to take on the riskiest of risks. There’s always a carrier out there that will do it. You can insure a house on fire for the right premium.",
"50,000 Texans paid money for that",
"No one seems to have answered who the two guys talking to him onstage during it all (who he dismissed outright) were, and what they were telling him. \n\nThat should be looked into IMO",
"This man deserves criminal charges. Not just being sued.",
"Jesus. Some dude was getting crushed and he still took the time to grab titty towards the end. \nYou poor girls…",
"I mean, he could of stopped singing and hyping the crowd up. Instead he gives the finger and continues.",
"Travis Scott is a piece of shit…but how did you not know who he was before all this? Do you live under a rock?",
"Dude is such a mouth breather.",
"The people who trample them aren't the people who are doing the pushing at the other end of the crowd.",
"I get it, \"so many missed chances\" is just an odd way of describing culpability. There's one chance. You stop the event when tragedy is imminent, that's the one chance.",
"Travis Scott is equivalent to a plastic grocery bag floating in the breeze. \n\nHe's worthless trash, and in the right circumstances trash that could suffocate people.",
"We’ve made so many people that of course this is an avenue. When you have nearly 8 billion data points, some of the outliers will be a bit strange.",
"You asked for examples and he gave them to you. I’ve seen plenty of comments calling his music “thug music” and saying “he raps about guns and killing” when that’s not even true.",
"Because he sees one ambulance at a concert with tens of thousands of people that is supposed to mean that he knows some mass casualty event occurred? There were safety and security officials at the event who could have come on stage and notified him that the concert should end early. \n\nThere's so much scapegoating happening. It's ridiculous.",
"I do as the crystal guides",
"It seems that in US and Anglo-Saxon culture \"preventable\" is considered to be nearly synonymous with \"personal responsibility\", so I don't know... Just look at the victim-blaming attitude around pedestrian or cyclist casualties and contrast that with how they deal in, say, Netherlands.",
"Via the wiki. I\n\n> The Love Parade was a free-access music festival and parade that originated in 1989 in Berlin.\n\n> The Love Parade in Duisburg was the first time that the festival had been held in a closed-off area.\n\nSo was this the same event at a new location for a totally different event under the same name? \n\nNot as familiar with this event.",
"Don't know this guy, never will. Hope he disappears from all public venues and the hoard of losers who idolize him will get better taste in music.",
"His emotions scream, \"are people really fucking this up for me right now?\"",
"Never will someone personify the word \"cunt\" so perfectly for me.",
"What a fucking idiot. Makes me sick, so sorry for all the family that lost loved ones",
"You know that cancel culture thing everyone gets so wound up about regardless of which side you're on. Rally around shit like this instead. Cancel scumbags.",
"Imagine having a medical emergency and being more concerned that you got hosed on concert tickets to see a guy who turns out to be a real prick than you are concerned with your own survival. \n\nAt least, I assume that's what it would be like to be an American.",
"Maybe this is a cultural thing then... That shit don't happen in Australia and we have just as big a music scene as any country. Never in my life have I seen an ambulance drive through a crowd at a music Festival in Australia.",
"He's got Kardashian money behind him. He'll be fine.",
"BuT hE dIdN't KnOw ThErE wAs AnYtHiNg WrOnG!",
"That video and the story that goes with it made me physically ill.",
"It was a bad movie but so were the prequels, fans just seem more vitriolic these days.",
"As someone who's favorite band is Blink 182, you are mostly right. He is the only one with exceptional technical skill, but mark and tom are both talented song writers and catchy riff writers.",
"My music is awesome and definitely better than everyone else’s. \n\n/s but for real tho",
"how could anybody be a fan of this dirtbag? and now 9 people dead smh",
"If you order a Travis Scott now, the entire staff runs out and tramples you, then flips the ambulance off and stands in the way when it shows up to save you.",
"Fuck that piece of trash. Total shit.",
"I would say everytime I see this guy my opinion of him lowers but that would mean I had an opinion of him in the first place and I never heard of him until he let this tragedy happen. I could call him shit but shit actully has some kind of value and can serve a purpose.",
"i honestly dont \"get\" moshpits. \"i wanna get shoved around\". oh \"but not like that, that's too much\".",
"Think the same person who fixed her top was trying to fix it a second time.",
"it misses me smh",
"Panic and shock can do some weird and funny things to a person.",
"He didn’t flip off first responders.. he has done that at plenty of shows it’s similar to throwing your hands in the air. Goes against the fuck Travis Scott narrative tho, so you won’t admit you’re wrong. Loser",
"I don’t think they made the right decision, but you do need to be careful with panicking a crowd. A stampede of people trying to leave all at once could kill a lot more than 8 people. It’s nearly always better to minimize the disruption and work with the artist if need be.",
"There's nothing to donate though.",
"I didn’t even know this guy was really a rapper. I just thought Kylie was propping up her baby daddy. I’ve never heard any of his music before today.",
"Like looney toons quicksand or real quicksand? Thought we all knew quicksand isn't actually scary.",
"i honestly never heard of the guy before all this fiasco.\n\nquite an asshole the more i learn about him. kinda makes me wonder, are his fans such idiots that they turn a blind eye on all the bullshit he pulled in his previous concerts? \n\nin any case, i still admire his ability to rile up a crowd. i'd probably just shy away from stage",
"Apple music and live nation also hold responsibility for not ensuring higher safety standards at this show and keeping the show going for the stream 40 minutes after organizers were aware of a problem.",
"I don't think it *only* resides on the artist. The venue and concert organizers obviously have a responsibility to keep audiences safe. The problem is *no one* did anything once it became clear their were problems. Scott was hardly the only one with the power to halt things. He obviously deserves a lot of flack for his part, but that shouldn't detract from the responsibility others like Live Nation had as well in this.",
"But *did I*?\n\nCry harder.",
"His music is trash AF to be honest and the fact that he is affiliated with the kardashians and Jenners shows what a crap of a person he is.",
"Man i really like some of his bars but the autotune… I just can’t get past it.",
"POS",
"I hate humans everyone in that crowd must have been dropped on the heads as newborns because I can’t believe that these creatures can be so stupid yet not be extinct already",
"I completely agree with you. It's just like the stampede that happened during The Hajj in 2015 as well. It was a big tragedy yet it was one year in an event that has happened for several centuries. \n\nAstroworld will be remembered as a big tragedy as well, but it's not some great proof of a huge cultural problem. It's in all likelihood a horrible incident and definitely an anomaly in the music festival scene. I have no doubt it will change the way festivals and gatherings are secured though, it just has a narrative, a villain, and an incredible amount of footage and reactions from victims that no other crowd disaster like this one has ever had before.",
"[Ooh](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/960/708/fa1.gif)",
"Crowd is brain dead just like this stupid fuck",
"Dunking on this asshole won't get old for a very long time.",
"Hey say what you will but Metal fans have it figured out too. Been in countless mosh pits and it’s surreal how physical yet cautious the fans get.",
"Shut the fuck up Ben Shapiro",
"Autotune is the bagpipes of the 21st century.",
"'Music'",
"Seems like a classy guy",
"You ever heard of the wall of death?",
"I don't know about that. Dude is starring in a tv show loosely based on his own life on FX that people seemed to love. But I guess you're right the reddit hype went away thankfully.",
"SMH 🤦♂️",
"And while that happened he stopped the show...",
"Can’t imagine what Nike is gonna be about all their collabs",
"One of my biggest irritations as a medic is not being able to get to patients due to avoidable problems ( not pulling to the right for instance while responding ) , there's no excuse for these people blocking access to people in harm. He's a dreadful human being to condone / amplify the issue.. I never liked his music to begin with and I hope the relevant suits against him win",
"He seems like a terrible person because he is a terrible person",
"Lol dude, think this through. \n\nWho is taking care of the individual? The person themselves or others?\n\nAre people focusing on their own enjoyment by rushing towards the stage or thinking about how that would effect the crowd if everyone did the same.\n\nYou don’t see anyone on people’s shoulders, people weren’t rushing the gates at this event to sneak in on mass, everyone is staying in their spot and respecting the rules because as soon as people don’t respect rules this get dangerous.",
"There are videos of two people clearly begging stage hands for help. They were told they'd be pushed off the 15 ft tall stage if they didn't stop bothering the stagehands. One girl even pointed a cameraman's camera towards the spot where people were dying.",
"You’ve become hyper aware of propaganda campaigns and you haven’t noticed the one against Travis Scott right now? Countless default subs have posts about how much of a scumbag he is as their top post. Sounds like you’re not as hyper aware as you thought lol",
"If Adele can stop a concert for a fan passing out and direct medical aid to them, he could have done the same. I think I've seen videos of Miley Cyrus doing something similar, and Maroon 5? Correct me if I'm wrong? He saw it go down.",
"First time at a Trump rally… Errr I mean Travis Scott concert?",
"I think people are calling you out because what Travis raps about has nothing to do with being a thug/gangster. I'm pretty sure he never even mentions a gun in any of his songs. It's just about doing drugs, women and money which is themes that are seen in rock/pop but the fact that he's black, its suddenly thug music. He's just a druggie at worst, Travis doesn't even come from the streets, he came from the suburbs, he went to private school. He never sold drugs too. So the only reason he's a gangster is cause hes black while Post Malone can sing about the same things but not fall in the same category. So yes, what you said was ignorant.",
"Lol",
"Honestly it would be funny if it weren't so pathetic how his fans are crawling on the ground to kiss his feet.\n\nDisgusting",
"Not the time for that bs",
"Some people claim it goes back to humans most primal instincts of protection and strongest survive. Knowing a person could take a life at a moments notice, without reason/hesitation might trigger something in another human that if they surrounded themselves with the murderer they would themselves be safe from all other dangers. Bizarre but put in caveman ways I guess be around the baddest MFer and your likely to survive",
"Wtf is that video player and why can’t I scrub?",
"Yep. I immediately thought of the station fire when I heard about this. Fuck all of this.",
"unless youre mel gibson.",
"Sadly you’re probably right. Well if the universe is willing maybe we will all get lucky and he will have a lasting impact with a tree or wall or something",
"Clearly a dirtbag",
"Not a fan of his at all actually. Just have common sense I guess, unlike you. You’ve got plenty of others disagreeing as well. It’s okay to be wrong pal :)",
"His music is not the reason he’s famous. It’s alright but nowhere near the levels of artists like Kendrick or J Cole. If he wasn’t with Kylie Jenner he wouldn’t be nearly as big.",
"Or venues. Sounds like he's a massive liability.",
"So we aren't going to talk about 50 thousand people packed like a can of beans during a damn pandemic? A lot more than 8 people are going to die because of this concert. Travis Scott is not the only asshole in this story.",
"do you think asian venues invented floor seats?",
"\"Hey, you remember when all those people died at that Travis Scott show?\"\n\n\n\"Wait, what happened?\"\n\n\n\"Oh yeah, it was crazy. I got tickets to see him this weekend, it's going to be awesome\"",
"Yes bring up the racist singer as an example of a good person. Right....",
"This is a really weird take.",
"I 'staged' at many concerts and events in my career, hoping not to have to actually work, but get to enjoy the show and get paid to boot. Never once did the entertainer or MC fail to stop everything and get the crowd to give us space to work. Dizzy spells, minor injuries, even cardiac events cropped up, but never unnecessary crowd deaths from poor management. And ***NEVER*** egging on the crowd to hinder aid. That's on a par with Inciting A Riot.",
"[Travis Scott seeing an ambulance trying to rescue people in the crowd](https://imgur.com/gallery/pSfeUk4)",
"This dude is all kinds of fucked. I hope they take every damn cent from him. Those poor kids and their family.",
"Now we will see how strong cancel culture really is.",
"Doesn't seem like it, and if they were so concerned about what was happening why did they go into stage diving right away?",
"That requires the artist to be intelligent enough to figure out what’s going on to start with. this guy is no rocket scientist.",
"Nobody ever wrote a song called Fuck Tha Ambulance or Fire Department",
"I couldn’t even watch the entire thing… geez",
"Sounds hot",
"He was notified about the deaths 30 min into his show. he continued to play for an additional 37 min. The two guys coming up to him was his crew telling him he need to shut it down. He is a sick dude!",
"You cannot compare the 2 situations no matter how hard you wanna draw straws. \n\nChris Brown abused and beat Rihanna, shitty in its own way but nowhere near as shitty as being charged for inciting a riot in 2017 and then doing the same thing 4 years later leading to the deaths of innocent concert goers and the injuries of countless other people \n\nTravis Scott’s actions KILLED PEOPLE then he acted complete oblivious to the scene unfolding around him \n\nPeople really need to stop pulling the Chris Brown card as if his actions against Rihanna is the line needed to be crossed in order to ruin a career \n\nWhat Travis Scott did is incomparable to the actions of Chris Brown, stop Comparing 2 things that couldn’t be further away from sharing similarities, beating your girlfriend, again extremely scumbag move, and knowingly being responsible for the deaths of your fans and not giving a fuck about it are 2 wildly different scenarios",
"Groveling ain't it. He's not going to give you a hug\n\nBut I could see him flipping you off for your efforts*",
"Same. I always know where the exits are and I always check behind me every few minutes just to make sure. Last concert I went to was lord Huron and I was in the front. The crowd behind me snuck up on me and I felt so panicked. Not a good feeling. That video still haunts me. Those poor people. Same kind of negligence from the artists and their team.",
"The dude wrote the lyric “its not a mosh pit without injuries” and has targeted people with his voice telling people to beat them up at shows. He’s not dumb he wants this he calls it raging.",
"Particpants are not verbatim directed to ignore security and medical personnel. \n\nMost metal bands make a point to thank security and request their crowds listen to security/medics, even in shows w/ violent pits. \n\nAgain, literally telling fans to ignore security just isn't something done at live shows, because bands are told that may make them liable for inciting a riot. It's drilled into any person that is performing at an event of this size. \n\nThat's why this event is so shocking. There is no excuse on his end, which is what his lawyers have told him, which is why his statement admits some fault via apologizing. His legal team already know he's screwed somehwat.",
"What’s wrong with him? He seems so zoned out.",
"I find it pretty funny.",
"Oh my god shut up. The mental gymnastics here.",
"All these comments about regretting watching the video is making me so curious but also cautious if I should watch it or not. Damn. I want to sleep tonight so maybe no",
"Was that the whole song?",
"Probably thought it was a cop?",
"Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8\n\nSeriously, though, piss off, not the time for idiotic trolling.",
"I completely agree this dude is a complete POS and that it would have been easy. I think the obstacle and slippery slope here though is trying to prosecute for what someone *didn't* do, as opposed to what they did. I don't see any chance of homocide or manslaughter here; they are going to have to try to prove that he willingly and knowingly interfered with emergency personnel resulting in the death of others or that he incited violence (but he didn't direclty per se, it's quite messy) and even then I think it will be difficult to get any serious felony to stick.\n\nMy sad guess here is he will plea out some lesser charges, get a year of house arrest and 300 hours of community service or some shit and that will be that.",
"Im gonna go out on a limb here and say he figured it was a cop, not saying that’s okay either but culturally it makes a lot more sense.",
"Everyone except you is a simpleton. How do we even manage",
"when is miss natural selection coming to pick him up hmmm",
"\\>Ego and stupidity \nyou said stupidity twice.",
"Reddit will tell you there is a difference between this and BLM protesters blocking ambulances.",
"I'm beginning to think this Scott guy is not a nice person...",
"Imagine being in that crowd during a pandemic.",
"It shouldn't matter what he believes in. How could the venue allow this? Or his manager; publicist? \nJust because he is famous does not mean his word or action shoul be law in any way. When they saw he did not stop the show why did no one react? He nust have a tonne of people working on the show, why did everyone just stand by?",
"It's a weird take saying so many missed chances. Oh no there's 1 dead, that's one chance gone. 2 dead, oh we running out of chances now!",
"I wouldn't be surprised if he voted for the orange child",
"Ok. I tried to back and watch it again but it's horrible.",
"Still not a fan of his no matter how much you claim it lol. You’re in denial and that’s okay. Do some reflection and I’m sure you’ll see how incorrect you were.",
"Hyperbolic statements + said as if they were objective truths + largely targeted at one genre of music that they know largely nothing about + that just so happens to have a largely black community = thinly veiled racism. The math checks out, I'd love to hear how you calling people who listen to rap maniacs, and saying rap is shit, despite not even listening to the genre doesn't make you at best an ignoramus and at worst a racist. I don't listen to metal and you don't see me calling every metalhead a school shooter or some shit.",
"My (younger) cousin informed me that Travis had a ps5 and my reaction was the same; who?",
"Imagine paying money to go see that guy in that crowd during a pandemic....nobody there is concerned on other people's survival. A lot more people will die due to this concert. We just won't be able to trace it back to it.",
"That's your very subjective perception",
"Hybristophilia?\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia",
"cmon, don’t be a troll",
"Imagine dying hearing this music.",
"Yeah, and I've never heard of him or his music.",
"**[Hybristophilia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia)** \n \n >Hybristophilia is a sexual interest in and attraction to those who commit crimes, a paraphilia in which sexual arousal, facilitation, and attainment of orgasm are responsive to and contingent upon being with a partner known to have committed a crime. The term is derived from the Greek word hubrizein (ὑβρίζειν), meaning \"to commit an outrage against someone\" (ultimately derived from hubris ὕβρις, \"hubris\"), and philo, meaning \"having a strong affinity/preference for\". In popular culture, this phenomenon is also known as \"Bonnie and Clyde syndrome\".\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"I wish I could up vote this a million times. Assuming positive intent, and he had no idea that death was occurring, his go-to was to tell an ambulance to fuck off via 50,000 middle fingers… Sociopath. You can hear a girl mentioning continuing to rage in response to an ambulance showing up. What kind of culture is this?",
"Not gonna lie that looks so sanitary. It's a hard no. But when rap started picking up the rowdy crowd vibe from hardcore they didn't bring the camaraderie that comes with it. When you go to a hardcore show the crowd is brutal but the second somebody Falls everybody around rushes to pick them back up",
"The video actually starts indoors and the cameraman is one of the first to realize something is wrong and heads towards the exit. Luckily he/she was close to the exit anyway, you could tell by the time they got out that it was starting to get a little paniced and pretty soon you could see people stacked up in the doorway with black smoke billowing out over them. Horrifying.",
"You should get out more.",
"And sound engineers could have easily cut his mic, someone “running the show” could have made that call and prevented escalation",
"In Arkansas?",
"Wow",
"Is Post Malone a thug then ? Is Eminem a thug ? Cause I'm sure both of these guys fit in your three criteria. And yes I've listen to all their music, so I know what I'm talking about.",
"I don't care much for Fortnite either, but you don't gotta be such a boomer about it.",
"Make me your King.",
"I like to think Travis Scott’s fan base aren’t even true fans but more so Millenial and Gen Z burnouts who think going to his shows, buying his shit merch and Maccas meal will somehow make him recognize them and give them the everlasting “clout” they so desperately need. \n\nIt’s time for old heads in hip hop to come out and call out the new artists on their bullshit and show them just how far they’ve dragged hip/hop and rap as a genre into a dark abyss that no one wants to touch.. the genre standards have dropped so low that people won’t even admit to listening to new rap artists in the same way people\nuse to adamantly deny liking country music",
"I'm not the one upset over this idiot being called a mumble rapper. You babies are upset enough to reply to me.\n\nTry harder.",
"By \"his\" music you mean the music that other people write and produce for him right? Because he has zero talent at all. Well, he knows how to get social media followers and corporate sponsors.",
"One look at him and i already know he's a muppet. Suprise suprise.",
"The Internet is coming for Travis Scott.\n\n \n\n\n \n\n\nPS: I've never seen a more clueless human. I mean I have seen Trump speak but he's hardly a human. This guy might not be either.",
"That moment when he turns his back and walks away...thats the moment he stopped caring for that one whole minute about his fans suffering in the audience. What a total fuck.",
"Thank you loser reddit dude",
"Fun fact, I couldn’t name or recognize a single Travis Scott song. And I kinda like it that way",
"F u Travis Scott.\nIf my teenage children ever try to justify what happened to random people at a random gig I will rip them a new one!\nThis stopped being entertainment the moment his fans broke through the barriers to get in.\nHe had hours, if not weeks to anticipate this outcome .\nWe’re all responsible for what we do at work.\nThis bloke is responsible for the outcome of his job. He and many others must suffer the consequences of a very potential event.",
"Seriously, people need to stop acting like Brittany wasn't a fucking mess and needed an intervention at the time.",
"Broooo DNA^2 you got me on some nostalgia",
"I'm not defending him, dickhead. But I'm also not supporting a bullshit sensationalist narrative just because the hivemind doesn't like him",
"Shit, what? Haven't heard about that one",
"No, but the people screaming to pause the concert, him literally seeing more than 2 people passed out, an ambulance trying to move through. \n\nThe very least you could do is tell people to make way. \n\nThere's some degree of scapegoating sure, but the guy was 100% responsible, and could have done something potentially save a life.",
"/r/NotOPbutOK",
"This is who Kylie chose to bring a new life into the world with 🤦🏻",
"And then the little shit would report you for threatening her.",
"No its like: \n\n1. They should have had safety protocols in place long before the concert to ensure this couldn't happen.\n\n2. They should have had safety briefings before the show to discuss how to handle it.\n\n3. They should have recognized that the crowd was getting dangerous and made an announcement over the PA.\n\n4. As soon as the first calls came in of injuries they should have stopped the show until the situation was resolved.\n\nEtc etc etc.\n\nThe failures didn't start when people got hurt. They started before the show even happened.",
"Fun fact: t-pain can actually sing like a motherfucker. Dude has real talent. Travis doesn't. He has hype",
"Fuxk this guy. I truly cant imagine not HALTING the fucking “performance” when you see ambulances driving through the crowd. These people gave money to you, make you who you are. These people are your fans. His response was insulting. How can you not genuinely and sincerely find something to say about 8 of your fans that just died, and you have at the very least some responsibility in. Dont get me started on the asshole fans also responsible. But his response was absolutely painful. Ive been to so many metal shows and music festivals and i understand tragedys do happen. But at every metal fest/show ive EVER intended. Theres been people of all ages, including kids, snd people are actually fucking considerate. Even in the mosh, you fall and pick them the fuck back up and make sure theyre okay. Of course concerts pose some inherit risks especially when inebriated and fucked on drugs but god damn theyre should still be some civility and compassion. 8 deaths at one show is alot. Fucking do better. When you attend shows look out for others and dont be an asshole.",
"r/im14andthisisdeep",
"Straight up scene from the Battle of the Bastards in GoT when John is being crushed by bodies. Horrible.",
"Should be held accountable. But what can you expect from a scum bag . He should be banded from the industry .",
"I don't even know who this guy is.",
"Travis Scott is an asshole",
"Any time something rap related is in the default subs the comments are populated with rap = crap bullshit, that's what never changes. Literally, no other genre receives this much negativity, why do you think that is?",
">don't see me calling every metalhead a school shooter or some shit.\n\nShow me where I did the equivalent.\n\nThe only moron obsessed by race is you.",
"By this time that he had seen the ambulance, someone had already died from cardiac arrest (about 10 minutes before). I believe the ambulance was trying to get to the body. Organizers knew ten minutes before this moment in the video that someone had a heart attack. \n\nIf you remember during the show two guys came out on stage. Both of them ended up jumping into the crowd, but apparently they were there to tell Scott what was going on, and he had waved them off. \n\nHe had multiple opportunities to stop the show. He didn’t stop. Organizers could have stopped the show. They didn’t. Scott FINISHED his entire set while 8 people died in front of him. That is inexcusable in my eyes.",
"Man so much thought went into that song. Probably one of the best pieces of music I've ever heard.. I mean wow amazing how dumb people are to continue giving money to this no talent ass clown.",
"dude have you listened to any travis scott? and what does race have to do with this?",
"And isn’t Travis Scott in a relationship with Kris Jenner’s daughter? The shitshow never ends with these people.",
"Ayyyyee lmao",
"He wasn’t he’s just being a performer. \n\nThere were 50k people there and no one on his team actually told him what happened, that we know of. \n\nHe saw an ambulance, stopped, said “what is that?” Then continued the show because he’s infront of a sea of 50k people and literally has no idea what’s happening in the crowd until he gets off stage. \n\nYeah, he’s a piece of shit but this particular instance from the show isn’t as fucked as people make it out to be.",
"Idk have you read these comments? Like just the other one who responed to this one",
"I know I shouldn’t have been, but I was absolutely shocked that his go-to response \nON CAMERA/ LIVE was fuck the ambulance.",
"I'm no Travis Scott fan but it's honestly laughable how quickly people turned on him.",
"As far as I am concerned everyone there is a dipshit for going in that crowd during a pandemic.",
"It’s fucked up but dude is playing a show and there’s people everywhere coulda gone better but for all he knows which is nothing someone coulda been being a dumbass not saying any of this is right but get a life people",
"Is anyone at Live Nation being held responsible or is that just wishful thinking? :/",
"Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Conway Twitty (cue cutaway)",
"Make your own mind up, damn.",
"Yes we have have all seen the tpain can sing video",
"Live Nation are the real fuckups here though",
"I know zero about this guy, but he sure doesn’t seem like the brightest crayon in the box.",
"Travis Scott, what a genuine piece of dog shit.",
"Kylie Jenner was at the show posting snapchats and Instagram acting completely oblivious of the ambulances and medics carrying bodies out from the pit \n\nI don’t think being rich and famous is going to help her image that’s now associated with her baby daddy inciting riots leading to peoples deaths\n\nTravis Scott and LiveNation will be lucky to get out of this without losing everything they have, LiveNation as a company will probably never operate again due to insurance reasonings, people have already said no venue or organizer will insure Travis Scott ever again",
"That still means more expenses for him and he'll have to raise ticket prices which will drive fans down. \n\nEither way this is going to cost him money regardless. \n\nAlso, don't forget that you also would need a license or permit from the city/town and given his history it's likely it won't be granted and he'll have to perform in Venues not as accessible. \n\nIt would be highly sus for the city of Houston to grant a permit for this event next year",
"He actually says \"If everybody good, put a middle finger in the sky\"",
"What does seeing an ambulance mean? Like wth there’s ambulances at many events.",
"Classy assfuck",
"He's a piece of shit.",
"He did the tenet song",
"How did any aspect of modern Star Wars get approved by anyone with any intelligence, other than by saying, \"$$$$$$!!!!!\"?",
"Yes, and you can still be an individual while following rules. I'm not saying CCP is right in their ways, they aren't. I'm just saying you americans have a fucked up view about individuality that is simply false. Individuality and society go hand in hand. I can be my own freak while still not being a psychotic fuck like what you see at this cunt's shows.",
"I also just know that he is a psychopathic wannabe musician who did nothing to stop 8 people from dying at his show. Countless more almost suffocated I’m sure the injury rate will come out soon.\n\nFor kicks I went and checked out his biggest song. Wow. Total lack of musicality. His raps are monotone and full of that triplet crap that will be forgotten in 5 years. Also autotuned to hell. Garbage music from a garbage person.",
"What a totaly unaware ashole, he has people telling him theres a problem, can see the ambulance and is still not doing shit to make the situation better.",
"Look at how long it took this ignorant slack jawed pile of crap to register what was happening. I really think he is mentally challenged.",
"What is there to process?? There is an ambulance car with the crowd? What could it possibly be doing... selling icecreams? a three year old would know that it was carrying injured people...I think he definitely knew there was a trouble but he carried on regardless...he should be held responsible",
"This dude isn’t a gangster or his fans.",
"Pieces of shit like him will always have a fanbase, but it's now up to labels to drop this cunt. And if he ever finds a new label or forms his own, whenever he knocks at a venue that venue tells him to go fuck himself.\n\nThis isn't a musician, this is a narcissist asshole that creates misery.",
"What?",
"I didn't. I heard it on the radio.",
"I don't think Trump would intentionally get people killed at one of his own fan club meetings\n\n&#x200B;\n\n\\--edit--\n\n&#x200B;\n\nShould have known American redditors can't be objective about things like this",
"I look forward to seeing what comes out in the lawsuit. If he knew all that and kept going, that's effed. But if it wasn't really communicated to him then I don't see how he's responsible. \nI did hear that there was concern by police at the event that shutting it down abruptly would cause MORE problems with a riot or trampling situation. I could see this being a really difficult situation to resolve.",
"This song lives in my head.",
"It's really bad, possibly the worst Star Wars movie tied with AOTC. No real reason to watch it.\n\nThere are a few good scenes but it's not worth the brain damage you'll incur watching the rest of the film.",
" Cancel him",
"Here’s a thread from r/Music outlining examples of when musicians have done this:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/qozw4r/for_anyone_defending_the_trash_that_is_travis/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf",
"It's very well deserved in this instance",
"Says the guy who was so upset by me calling this idiot a mumble rapper that you had to keep going.",
"Exactly the same concept from history. Ancient formation warfare would have many, many people in formation shoving against another large group of people in formation. The center where the formations met could easily be crushed exactly like this, until one formation broke and was slaughtered by the other.",
"I think R. Kelley still has fans despite the heinous shit he's done.",
"Exactly. Even with a correlation of dumb people in church, it doesn't mean religion made them dumber. Maybe religions are one of the few places that won't reject the intellectually challenged. I'm just pointing out that you can still be smart and religious.",
"Here's a quarter, call someone who cares...",
"This! \n\nPlenty of examples out there of rockstars calming down and protecting their fans in an unruly crowd. You know that a narcissist does? Exactly what Travis did. He’s going to rev up the crowd even despite the fact that there is clearly someone so hurt that they couldn’t get out without an ambulance. It beggars belief but these people exist. Charismatic. Ego manic. Professional liar. Plain and simple.",
"Chris Brown hadn’t been previously charged with abuse in the same way Travis Scott has been previously charged for inciting a riot at his 2017 show, these 2 situations are not comparable \n\nChris Brown didn’t kill 8 people with his actions and then act oblivious while medics carried bodies out of the pit \n\nSame with Dababy, there’s levels to this stuff.. all are horrible things but let’s not act as if what Chris Brown and DaBaby did are anywhere near as foul as what Travis Scott did",
"Then the weak pushovers who accept the role of managing people like him can live with the consequences of their obsequiousness.",
"The McFuckup",
"Insurrectionist Babbit would like a word",
"Even if his career doesn’t, he’s still a super rich asshole",
"Tbh that’s friendly but that looks like a robotic nightmare. Still better than a Travis Scott show though",
"I was in residency in Boston during that time. We got 14 patients and 4 died. It was so haunting, they were only slightly older than me and unrecognizable as people. Young people, mostly mid to late 30s, just starting to live.",
"I still don’t know, who is this clown?\n\nHe doesn’t even sound badass",
"I’m actually shocked Apple got involved with this piece of shit. I mean he has been a piece of trash for years. Apple really getting desperate to get into live shows i guess. Still can’t believe someone at Apple thought it was a good idea.",
"I've been one of those girls twice. The wave started and I was stuck in the middle trying to get out. Some random guy grabbed me and tried getting me out but it was so intense he ended up just throwing me up. And that's how I crowd surfed for the first time. Different show, same venue but this time I was up front against the railing when the wave started. I had a bruise across my ribs for weeks after. The pressure of the people is so intense it's absolutely terrifying. Those 2 shows are the reason I have a hard time with large crowds.",
"Is that the one with Travis on a pedestal still singing above the body?",
"*Most* people have never heard of The Aquabats",
"Japanese queuing skills are on par if not superior to the British",
"Like I said before. The rich will never be held accountable for the bad shit they do. So sadly nothing will happen to trashy Travis.",
"Wasnt Travis the organizer too?",
"What an asshole.",
"Where else are their marketing teams gonna prey on children except where children go to p~~r~~lay ? ^(my bad, Disney not the Catholic Church)",
"\"Why are there ambulances here? I'm not hurt. Man, fuck those guys. Imma get the crowd to flip them off.\" - Travis Scott's brain cell trying it's best, probably",
"Pinch and roll",
"Sounds like Asian No Doubt",
"This makes me want to bow my head and cry for the mothers. I would want his destruction.",
"I hope they sue him for every cent he has ever did or will make. What a piece of shit.",
"Yeah, thanks to some events in life I tend to keep an eye on possible exits, and it does pay off. Like you said k owing other exits than the majority will save your ass.\n\nIt may not be the \"bravest\" thing but I was on a docked ship when the fire alarms went off, I had myself, my family and the three nearest people off that ship and I the other side of the docks before the crew had even gotten their books out to identify the location of the alarm.",
"She still is, its going to end badly.",
"The lawyers on these lawsuits have their job already done for them. Videos like this solidify Travis Scott’s knowledge and culpability of the dire situation at AstroworldFest and the financial payouts will cripple him and everyone else involved. That however means nothing to the people that are no longer alive and their families.",
"I mean he likely thought it was police arresting some peeps for weed or something. Nobody flips off ambulances or fire trucks etc",
"Human garbage.",
"Experienced this when I was visiting the Capitol years and years ago…\n\nShowed up for a tour, and before it even started, security was going around to different groups trying to identify the owner of an unattended backpack. We overheard that the proper authorities had been notified and we started our tour, and heard nothing of it again. \n\nFast forward to the end of the tour, and I start to notice a few personnel starting to scramble, immediately I felt something was wrong. Out of nowhere, at the top of their lungs, the security guard yelled “RUN! Get out of the building!” \nPanic ensued, everyone inside rushed towards the closest exit, and I’ve never witnessed such horrendous human behaviour first hand. Mothers and their children in strollers were being trampled because the doors were too heavy to hold open with one hand. Older folks were getting knocked over and left behind. It all happened in a matter of seconds. As soon as my group was able to reach the doors safely, we stayed behind holding it open for whoever needed help getting out, fast. \n\nTurns out there was an unidentified plane that was flying towards the Capitol, and the pilot was unresponsive. Nothing ended up happening, but that moment truly shook me and I’ll never forget it.",
"This wasn't a fire or a shooting. Cutting the music and trying to get a handle on the situation would've saved lives.",
"Unfortunately, it isn't over in Salt Lake.",
"> He directly told his audience to rush the event and not listen to security or emergency services, verbatim.\n\nYou're saying that he said \"rush the stage and don't listen to security or emergency services\"? Could you give a source on that? I'm looking but can't find it. Everything says that the crowd just went nuts when he started his first song, but don't directly quote anything he said to encourage it.\n\n> He has been convicted of inciting a riot in the past. \n\nThat seems irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Obviously I'm not defending that. Reminder: I've never heard of this dude until today.\n\n> That is not a common thing in live performance and trying to state it is shows that it is you who are ignorant vs the average Redditor particpating in the discussion on this subject.\n\nAgain, I didn't condone inciting a riot. You're arguing against a straw-man. There's participating in a discussion, and then there's dragging the discussion down. You're currently doing the latter.\n\n> He also is the event hoster/promoter...It literally is on him in all respects both as a performer and promoter.\n\nSource on that? You're telling me someone signed to a major label, with several platinum/multi-platinum records, with 45 million monthly listeners on spotify (on par with Taylor Swift) is solely responsible for organizing this event? No. Simply no. That's not how these things work.",
"\"Oh shit.\" - Reese's...probably.",
"this stuff is CRIMINAL",
"you hear a lone voice of reason say “don’t do that” after he says to raise middle fingers",
"Do none of you listen to any modern music at all? There’s literally more music being made than ever and so much of it is outstanding",
"Ok but you understand that it's not how the public thinks and that a majority of the time that distinction isnt even made. It's still fuck Travis Scott but other rappers that I like are called thugs when they are so much more than that. People just look at the surface and not really look deeper than that.",
"Live Nation are also being sued. Hopefully they all go down for this\n\nEdit: [news article stating LN are being held responsible too](https://www.xxlmag.com/travis-scott-live-nation-sued-astroworld-lawsuit/)",
"\"Held responsible\" as in \"having the shit sued out of them\", quite possibly. \"Held responsible\" as in \"criminal charges\" or \"prison time\", don't be silly.",
"I wonder if he's looking down to avoid seeing what's going on in front of him. Or if that just how he performs? Staring at his feet?",
"Nuance of emotion is lost on a generation that learned to relate to screens more so than their fellow human.",
"que?",
"Uh. No one's saying that. They're saying her dad shouldn't be spending her money like it's his, have control over her sex life, install\nlistening devices in her bedroom, etc.",
"/r/confidentlyincorrect",
"Based on the action of all involved, I’d say there were no safety procedures…which is the biggest issue",
"McDonalds been killing people for decades. Its part of their business plan.",
"And all the clowns go right along with it.",
"Was the middle-finger move connected to the song he was about to perform? Performed in every set?\nOtherwise, with all the occult imagery in this set, eyes, demonic portals and creepy hands… it’s hard to not see it as a ritual of sorts…",
"His documentary on Netflix made me really like him as an artist but regardless, he can not do things that kill people and face 0 consequences. Homeboy needs to learn that inciting violence is not acceptable.",
"Never heard of him but he should be charged with something. What a cunt",
"They literally just came out defending TS that it would have been a bad idea to stop the show because of possible rioting. What absolute horse shit. I wonder who got paid off.",
"Agreed",
"Yes. There’s a system problem that allows this to happen.",
"Stop with this bull shit, every other artist can behave themselves and make sure their audience behaves but Travis Scott gets a pass and suddenly it’s on the venue and even fucking APPLE?\n\nGet help and stop simping for awful people.",
"I think we are saying the same thing, but when I’m talking about the individual, im talking about in the American sense. We literally call it “rugged individualism” and it’s becoming more and more toxic.\n\nLike last nights episode of Last Week Tonight is a perfect example.\n\nWind energy is mainly created in the middle of America (conservative/rugged individualism) and needs to be transported to the coastal states. There was a guy being in one of those middle states saying that it’s not his fault that people on the coast need wind energy and that he doesn’t want to help those people by supporting infrastructure that would help transport electricity there. He has access to the electricity because he lives there and everyone else should either move or find their own way to power their cities.\n\nPeople like this are so common in America. They think “I got mine so fuck anyone else” but then don’t realize what would happen if everyone was selfish/individualistic to that degree. He wouldn’t get gas in his car, wouldn’t be able to drink from clean water sources, internet and other technology wouldn’t work there, wouldn’t be able to drive cars since they don’t manufacture them there, could eat much besides corn since they don’t grow everything in one state.\n\nAmerican individualism is nothing like individualism in other countries. It’s become this monster that can’t even be controlled at this point.",
"There are multiple layers of blame to be passed around. Travis Scott has several opportunities to attempt to control the crowd. He knows his crowd acts this way. \n\nThe venue should have had better crowd control plans. They also should have had better trained security and staff. This wasn't the first time incidents occurred at this festival. \n\nBut the crowd itself is also to blame. They were the ones that initiated all the craziness and chaos. People at concerts and festivals have to learn to behave or this shit will continue to happen.\n\nLong story short, everyone is to blame in this shitty situation.",
"I think it's a little outrageous to ASSUME the middle finger was towards emergency services.",
"Apparently she’s alive and in critical condition. Let’s hope a miracle happens for her 😭♥️",
"No chance. His PR team already covers most of the stuff up. For example this and his family being escorted with private security mid-show are not posted on yt and won't be. Also most of the comments on yt defend him.\n\nI feel like US is very biased as they shook the whole world about police accident with 1 fatal, but nothing going on about this... no prosecusions no charges no nothing. I bet he will not even have to invest more than 1 millie to get out of this easly and proceed to next shows. People will forget very soon, and his fans are defending him anyway saying \"he wouldn't do smth like this if only he knew\". This is so sad.",
"Where he is on an elevated platform, and he's moaning in autotune like he about to get off?",
"Sure, every travis fan is a mental patient because they like his \"shit\" music, despite you probably never hearing a single song from him and knowing nothing about rap.",
"Yeah, if you call a mild stretch gymnastics.",
"You don't see anyone get burned alive but the footage is pretty brutal. Since the footage starts off inside and the cameraman is one of the first to exit, you realise just how many people are still stuck inside. He continues to film the struggle at the front entrance but eventually moves around the building. At one point when he's at the back of the building you can hear people inside through the walls freaking out and screaming. Most definitely the worst part of the video, at least imo.",
"This is the part where that person takes the fall.",
"> banal lyrics \n\nUh…you obliviously have never heard the famous lyric “IT’S LIT!”",
"Yeah, it was on public freak out. The 16 year old girl who had passed",
"When did the guy dancing on top of the ambulance start?",
"This is inhumane and he deserves all the wrath he’ll get. Any remaining fans are as contemptible as he is.",
"Was on /r/publicfreakout yesterday",
"Getting some real Stockholm Syndrome vibes here.",
"Nothing will happen only if people let nothing happen.. Spotify has already given people pointers on how to completely block artists like Travis Scott from showing up in searches, on playlists or even completely stop playing the artist In general",
"Oh for real? I heard that was the 16 year old. But makes sense because the girl in the video looked bigger than the girl who passed, she was tiny",
"Travis isn't even gangster, wtf. And mainstream black music isn't just rap, again wtf. What is black music ? Cause I'm pretty sure if you want to go there, rock and blues all originated from black people. So technically the roots of most music is black music.",
"Make your mind up. I think they're mental patients or I'm racist. Pick one.\n\nSeems to me his fans are across all racial backgrounds.",
"Oh the lawsuits that will be filed. There will be many",
"He asked for middle fingers, not one but both hands, then wanted earth to shake. People started literally jumping on that ambulance.",
"Also I know plenty of dumbasses who care about people. Being dumb =\\= degrading human life.",
"**Black music is music created, produced, or inspired by black people, people of African descent, including African music traditions and African popular music as well as the music genres of the African diaspora, including Caribbean music, Latin music, Brazilian music and African-American music. These genres include spiritual, gospel, rumba, blues, bomba, rock and roll, rock, jazz, salsa, R&B, samba, calypso, soul, Kwaito, cumbia, funk, ska, reggae, dub reggae, house, Detroit techno, AmaPiano, hip hop, pop, gqom, afrobeat, and others.**\n\nMore details here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_music> \n\n\n\n*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*\n\n[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)",
"It’s probably not as “graphic” as other NSFL videos, but it is very haunting nonetheless. The casual exit of the person filming, the crowd moving towards the exit, slowly at first, then becoming more frantic, the speed with which the mood escalated from people enjoying a show to them literally filling the air with blood curdling screams and finally one of the last shots of those poor souls stacked five deep in the doorway. There’s no gore and you don’t see people bursting into flames, but it is truly disturbing",
"No words can express my thoughts after seeing that.",
"Dude, I was aware of him but never heard either of those. After hearing some of his autotuned bullshit after this shit I’m really glad I never heard his crap.",
"“I’m fuckin Lou. Who the fuck are you?”",
"Most of them actually died from asphyxiation from the crush. They can't breathe so they can't die from smoke inhalation, and most of them are insulated by everyone else on top of them.",
"Gee, what a surprise. A talentless 'rapper' and its 'fans' turn out to be pieces of shit.",
"This guy is absolutely trash of the highest narcissistic egotistical sociopath... I hope his career is ruined and never comes back from this..\n\nI am curious why no one from the venue unplugged the music themselves.. it was already a frenzy and a riot. Would turning off the music and having saftey lights make things worse or better?",
"Go to /r/publicfreakout. The sub over the past two days has been a barrage of posts that counter what you just said. Artists of every genre doing exactly what they should in this situation.",
"There is always a why, but maybe you're too good of a person or not aware enough to see it, as of now.",
"His career will not even be slightly touched.",
"See what I'm saying ?? Proved this idiot wrong. Thank you bot.",
"🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣",
"please provide evidence that he knew fans were dead during the show \n\ndownvoted and still no source…",
"There are a ton of good live performers but festivals are generally the worst place to perform and an even worse place to watch.",
"Have you seen the other videos? It is way more obvious he pushed on knowing people were getting hurt.",
"This seems complicated. Axel has plenty of evidence against him for being a shitbag... The articles I've scanned about this give me questions. I sure as fuck wouldn't be eager to go on stage where a guy almost burned to death. Sounds like a lot of people involved made piss poor decisions.",
"You’re getting downvoted, but you’d have to be stupid as fuck to not see the racism in this comment lmfao",
"Not if people had got angry at the show being cut",
"Yeah idk if this is an ignorant assessment, but from everything I've heard it seems like Japan has a strong \"the tall blade of grass\"/\"the nail that sticks up\" culture",
"You don’t know where I’ve been, Lou! Hahahahahaha. You don’t know where I’ve been!!!",
"This. Sadly, but this is true. Also his fanbase doesn't acknowledge him as guilty at all.",
"You would lose that bet",
"I want to give people the benefit of the doubt in the instance. Internet was as big as it is now during the Chris Brown and Rihanna situation. The media just moved on and so did people. \n\n\nIt's 2021. The internet doesn't forget and they won't let you forget either.",
"NAL, but I think it would be tricky.\n\nKind of like with the Alec Baldwin shooting, there are tons of other people who are responsible for safety at events like this. I don't think the burden legally falls on him as the performer on stage to make sure the crowd stays safe. The question I (and lots of other people) have is why he was allowed to continue when it was obvious something was seriously wrong.\n\nIf you look at Woodstock '99, I don't believe any of the bands were ever held legally responsible for the death, assaults, and property damage, even though it's pretty clear some of them were actively encouraging it.",
">Steve Aoki has apologised after breaking a fan’s neck during one of his shows.\n\n >During a show at San Diego’s Hard Rock Hotel in 2013, Aoki threw a life raft into the crowd, climbed the stage equipment and jumped 20ft from a balcony.\n\n??? WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS UNDERNEATH THE RAFT STEVE?",
"That's crazy, I had no idea",
">\tIt’s funny how Metallica can perform with over 3,000,000 people and not have 8 deaths occur, but yeah nothing to do with Travis and his crowd of 50,000.\n\nWhat show are you talking about? The closet thing I can find is the Monsters of Rock show in Moscow with 1.6 million people. 54 people died.",
"Apple needs to let us block artists. I don't want to hear Travis Scott and I don't want to hear Chris Brown. Stop giving them our pennies.",
"Their social etiquette is so well cultured that thought probably wouldn't cross most people's mind. You're talking about a country where even speaking on your phone in public transit is considered rude. Their streets are clean even without garbage bins because everybody just take their trash home.\n\nIt's really incredible.",
"I only buy VIP tickets or assigned seat tickets for shows now. Fuck all of that.",
"Really? I thought Apple would be all about this.",
"Piece of shit, die in dirt.",
"Which one? Yours is the first I’ve seen that mentions race.",
"which is worse him doing it or his many fans going ''yeah makes sense,that seems like a good idea''",
"Wtf you act like you know this person based off of these short responses. Living up to the stereotype that redditors are social rejects I see.",
"I don't know. This is his actual fans dying and him being callous about it in a flagrant way. Chris Brown is a piece of garbage, but his deeds where much more private and not directed at fans.",
"He calls his videographer a nerd in public on stage, they probably all hate him and avoid telling him bad news",
"What’s too much? I don’t mind the roughness of it I love it but when there’s girls getting stomped on that’s the issue. 8 people dying isn’t what a mosh is supposed to be. There’s a respect that should be held in a mosh that everyone there is fucked and it’s going to be rowdy but you can’t be ignorant to your surroundings.",
"Let’s be honest he’s there to perform, I agree he should’ve stopped the concert but nobody informed him the exact situation. It’s not his fault",
"This already exists. I've worked tons of festivals and everyone is on coms. All they would have to do is radio to the soundboard and say cut the audio theres an emergency and it would be done. Protocols are in place, it's the people calling the shots thats the issue. No one from the stage manager, security, promoters made the call to stop the show.",
"**THE DEAD SPEAK!**",
"I had never heard of this dude. Not that I'm hip, but man he was a big star I had never heard of.",
"Yes it did occur to me about two comments ago. Did it occur to you to read?\n\nWhy didn’t they cut the audio then?",
"Hijacking top comment to share a very relevant and educational song. \n\nhttps://youtu.be/1b5Ga49OFrA",
">\tBut I guess that's the weird thing when your whole schtick is being malicious (gangsta).\n\nThat’s… not really what Travis does. Like at all.",
">but he has Hella cash and influence..there's a huge sect of people saying he isn't responsible\n\nThe most profitable work for most musicians is live performance. [Astroworld sold 50,000 tickets, starting at $365](https://abc7news.com/travis-sc THott-astroworld-festival-fest-refund-ticket-day-n-vegas/11212116/#:~:text=Scott%20launched%20the%20Astroworld%20Festival,an%20additional%20%2465%20in%20fees.) That's 18.25 million, not including premium prices for front row tickets, drinks, merch, etc.\n\nNo one is going to book this guy for a show this size again, he's proven that he is a liability. He isn't going to get any mainstream sponsorships like McDonalds.\n\nHis earning potential cratered. It is still high compared to any normal human, and he won't suffer real consequences, but we got that going for us.",
"It’s his festival though, the buck stops at him",
"This video footage literally sends chills down my spine. Imagine watching as someone is dying right in front of you, you're screaming at the top of your lungs to get people to see what's happening but no one hears you or stops to help? That's like something out of a nightmare and the truly scary part is that this happened to so many in real life. My heart goes out to them. The organizers and security of this event need to be held accountable for these deaths.",
"Actual EMS here that has worked a concert.\n\n300 is not a normal amount to expect for anything out of 50k people aside from dehydration and babysitting for drugs followed by a quick release into the wild.\n\nIf we had 300 traumas at every fucking basketball game or concert insurance would never accept the risk.",
"He would intentionally whip them in a frenzy and if anyone yelled to stop he’d assume they were a hater and tell people to kick their ass.",
"I assume other people enjoy concerts because of the crowd experience, but to me it's \"All these assholes are getting in the way of me seeing and hearing this band.\" Like people talking in a movie theater times infinity.",
"Well that’s the most boomer shit I’ve read all day lol",
"We could’ve had Sweet Victory.",
"This is why I only go to concerts where people sit in the chairs.",
"This is just a straight up lie? \ncan we just make shit up now and spread misinfo?",
"While you definitely came across a bit racist. I'm absolutely ready for modern day Rap and Hip Hop to fall out of favor within mainstream. \n\nPeople either fail to realize or don't care that these sort of lyrics and behavior influences people. So many try to live their life's like these people and it really is destructive to society as a whole it's glorifying violence, and being a shitty person and I personally think it's time to get that toxic filth out of mainstream it influences so many people to be toxic.",
"That's not why he refused to go out, see here starting at 34:56 - [https://youtube.com/watch?t=34m56s&v=08m_1TB5RsA](https://youtube.com/watch?t=34m56s&v=08m_1TB5RsA)",
"I’m starting to think this guy’s a dick.",
"[:(](https://www.reddit.com/r/travisscott/comments/qnvz3r/someone_tries_to_get_crews_attention_to_help/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)",
"Why would anyone want to have a baby with him? He is so gross. Mouth breather.",
"I was at concert once right at the front, with a young girl, maybe 13 years old next to me. There were times during that gig where I planted both my feet on the barrier in front of us to stop us both being crushed into it. I'd forgotten all about that til I read your comment.\n\nAt the start of the gig a couple of 40ish year old women pushed to the front... they didn't stay there long lol",
"Yeah I mean moshing can be quite scary if you choose to do it. That is not the same thing as being trampled.\n\nI have been in a mosh pit.",
"No. They already made their money. This was incompetence and poor planning.",
"I'm not discussing the fans, i'm discussing the artists. Any rap post on the default subs will be met with a lot of negativity towards the genre, I have not noticed this with any other genre. People flaunt their ignorance of the genre like a badge of honor and any rapper that isn't Eminem is hit with the \"mumble crapper\" label. The genre populated by mostly black artists is constantly attacked whenever discussed, why do you think that is?",
"its because reddit cancel culture finally has a black celebrity to pile on and spew disgusting racist rhetorics back and forth into each others mouths",
"“Put your middle fingers up” is the hip hop equivalent of “put your hands up” so you actually believe he was telling fans to flip off the ambulance?",
"Here's just one other example after 3 seconds of googling. Who's \"lying\" now?\n\n\"Travis Scott’s 2015 Lollapalooza Charges Show History of Concert Chaos – NBC Chicago\" https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/travis-scotts-2015-lollapalooza-charges-show-history-of-concert-chaos/2676687/?amp",
"He's a sociopath with narcissistic personality traits? I don't really know, but I'm gonna throw that out there.",
"He's staring with his mouth open like a bozo and clearly doesn't know what to do. The middle finger shit is just buying time and distracting the crowd because you can't have dead air for too long. \n\nBut then he apparently makes up his mind and just turns the music back on.",
"Huge crowds at festivals are easy enough to avoid, usually just gotta stand near the sound booth tent which is usually set up opposite the stage and back a bit. Everyone pushes forward so you just stand back from where everyone is pushing.",
"Your own source debunks you lmao, nowhere does it say a travis scott fan has previously died at one of his concerts…\n\nmight want to read the article before you link it next time!",
"IT WAS A POOL PARTY FOR THE COOL KIDS AT MY SCHOOL",
"Shut up yes you know who it was, he’s massive and has been for years.",
"Windows 8 is still loading",
"Okay, and I’ve been at metal shows where bands seemed to encourage risky behavior.",
"Real quicksand, and yeah, that’s what I’m saying… The quicksand comparison undersells how horrifying a crowd crush is",
"I thought this is how they were getting the meat for the Travis Scott burger patties",
"Yeah that took it too another level of disturbing",
"That’s fair. I misspoke in that last one in that regard. But my initial comment in this thread still stands: the effective difference between directing the crowd to give the middle finger at the ambulance and directing the crowd to give the middle finger as a form of crowd hype in spite of the ambulance is the same. One makes him a bigger piece of shit than the other, but both make him a piece of shit. Just one pile of shit is bigger than the other.",
"The issue wasn’t physical yet cautious, it was poor planning for an overpacked crowd",
"Yeah I'm just referring to the previous comments describing mosh pits.",
"Yes cant get that out of my head. So sad & awful",
"I didn’t know Axl was racist, I mean slash is half black & the new Guns N’ Roses drummer is black… black, white, brown, artists need to stop the damn concert & help the people who’s being crush to death",
"His reaction...\n\nPure nightmare and heartbreak from what I just saw\n\nTravis Scott is a fucking psychopath",
"\"I could shoot someone in the street and not lose a single vote\"",
">In fairness, seeing an ambulance at a big concert isn’t a huge deal.\n\nYeah...but if it's in the crowd you are standing in and the lights are on *something bad is currently happening close to you and it could soon be your problem, so maybe try to be on alert.*",
">\tIts called Rap. It went down hill quickly into its inception because it mostly is about how murder is a useful tool to get women and material wealth.\n\nLol.",
"Yeah, I remember at some really rowdy concerts, everyone jumping in unison and moving I don't know how far laterally every time my feet left the ground, but it felt like a lot. Nothing to do but keep jumping, and the press of the crowd holds you up.",
">\tThey clearly didn’t have the right safety protocols in place for how to respond to an emergency in the crowd.\n\n….Or they had the right safety protocols but thanks to a nationwide labor shortage lacked a competent workforce to enforce those protocols. \n Regardless it still falls on them but Wouldn’t be surprised if both were true but I know the place I’m working at is so desperate for help they’re basically taking whatever they can get and new hires are getting thrown into shit without any of the proper trainin. Hard to place full blame on either sides as everyone working with what they can. Thankfully they’re not dealing in life safety…",
">\tThe police chief told him before hand that there were way too many people going\n\nSounds like police chief should have done something about that…",
"correct me if i’m wrong but i don’t think apple music had any direct hand in planning astrofest i think they were just streaming it",
"Travis Scott is not only an idiot but reckless idiot that spew stupidity to his equally idiotic fans.",
"Search up the lyrics for one in a million",
"Weird,it doesn’t affect me at all",
"What our ancestors fought for. A future like this, with people like that. Terrible what 3rd world America has become.",
"Moreover, much like a plastic bag that is carelessly thrown out as litter, he is contributing pollution to the destruction of humanity and our planet.",
"Lmao right i agree. It honestly was probably a nobody wants to step on any toes thing that got this where it got too.",
"Lol what the fuck is up with this type of comment? You do know how basically racist it sounds, yeah?",
"Not good. Should have identified the reason ambulance was there",
"Isn't Live Nation just a ticketing company like TicketMaster? Were they in charge of the festival's logistics?",
"Ain't shit gonna happen to apple. They won't even pay a dime even if they are found at fault. They would rather spend every cent in company coffers than lose a lawsuit that's not against another major corp.",
"Wonder how many people are going to Riot for the people getting trampled who couldn't \"breathe\".",
"Well let’s hope cancel culture exists.",
"Scumbag",
"I hear ya and agree it definitely draws that type of crowd, but they only mentioned Travis and Kanye who are both proven assholes so I'd hold back before assuming they're attacking all of rap.",
"Y'all can just say you hate Black people.\n\n*You know you want to.*",
"Actual ambulances or like a [Gator](https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/) with cop lights?",
"He won’t get prison, but he fucking deserves it",
"He tweeted to rush the event, overwhelm the gate, and break in prior to the event start. It's available in the public record and takes two seconds to find. There were already several hundred people at the medical tents before his performance began in part because of this.\n\nHis personally owned \"Cactus Jack Records\" brand is also literally the promoter. They founded the festival. It's promoted as \"Run by Travis Scott.\" Literally. Live Nation (one of the World's Largest promoters) and a holding company are just funding partners vs the promoters. \n\nYou are the one dragging the conversation down by not even looking things up despite making claims against the known public story. You need to do research before making bold counter claims.\n\nThis is not a normal thing in any regard. At all. Even him being the promoter is unusual, but a hard confirmed fact in this case. It's why people like yourself should do some more research before particpating in the discussion.",
"Been seeing lots of videos of other musicians stopping their performances to make sure the fans are off the ground / not fighting etc. Then I see two videos from a travis scott concert, one is a fight and another inciting abuse against an ambulance. Pretty tragic stuff.",
"Travis Scott is the Drake of rappers.",
"Shut the fuck up",
"What a worthless sack of shit",
"I've had a dislike of large crowds ever since I heard this song. \n\nhttps://youtu.be/1b5Ga49OFrA",
"Aokis sister is a total fuckball",
"Rihanna herself forgave the man, in public, in fact they are friends. Also some rekindled relationship before.\n\nNot saying what he did was right at all, I’m just saying as to a reason “why” people still fucked with CB.\n\nThis was back in 2012 also.",
"Metal is bad because all it talks about is killing and violence.",
"Lol guessing you’ve never heard of Altadena.",
"His shoes are probably going to resell for even more now. I think Nike needs to cancel his contract. I don't like his music but I dig his shoes, but fuck that. This isn't the first time something like this has happened with him and he encourages it. Fuck him.",
"This guy is garbagio",
"This is normal. Whether you like the fact or not, lots of people are in the medical tent when a show is that size.",
"Fucking hell, that’s some real PTSD shite there.",
"His safety team and Live Nation deserve bulk of the blame.",
"Those are two very different cases. George Floyd was murdered by the police.\n\nThis was a negligent, manslaughter case. That being said it is infuriating they have enough money to bury this story and continue on.",
"But he is offering his prayers to those victims now. Travis is a hero! Massive /s",
"He’s a fucking cockroach.",
"https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/lizzo-calls-chris-brown-her-favorite-person-faces-backlash/",
"Did you watch the clip?",
"This dude has no clue what he’s talking about lol. Acts like he can sniff out propaganda campaigns while actively eating them up.",
"That’s some truth",
"I know that's what happened, and shame on the idiots for swamping the ambulance and jumping on it. It was all the worst response for an emergency vehicle showing up, regardless of why it's there (an isolated incident or a mass casualty)",
"Some dude responded to ur comment with ”Midduh fingas in da ah”. Pretty obvious racial undertones",
"Why not they were the first people to throw money at Michael Vick after he was released from prison after being convicted on RICO charges and dog fighting/abuse?",
"Yeah, Fuck the people pushing to the front.",
"You don't even have to go that far. Just read the username. Kind of stunned its a 6 year old account with that name.",
"After all this Travis Scott stuff recently, I have JUST realized that it's not the same person as the Blink 182 drummer: Travis Barker. \n\nLate realization is better than no realization.",
"Ouch, inciting a crowd when you know something is wrong with one of your fans. Like he couldnt let everyone be calm and check on people. He 100% knew what the fuck was going on. POS",
" He's on the stage with a band playing and he's wearing hearing devices in all videos. . Most artists wear hearing devices to reduce sounds to prevent hearing loss. It's highly unlikely he could hear anything intelligible that was coming from the audience.\n\nNo, the guy was not 100% responsible. That makes zero sense. He did not design the safety and security protocols; nor did he implement or supervise them. The security & safety leaders are responsible for ensuring crowd control and safety. Why didn't anyone come on stage and tell him to end the concert? Crow control could have cut Scott's mic and issued a safety message. \n\nYou want to blame Scott because he's an easy target. The guy may be a dick but there's no way that he would deliberately ignore a mass tragedy. He's not a psychopath.",
"People have this point, and it varies for everyone, where they have so much money that they no longer view those who are directly responsible for putting food in their mouths as fellow people. They see them as cattle. As beneath them. Travis Scott reached his point a long time ago. \n\nExtreme wealth is a plague that kills those not infected with it.",
"YYYyyeeeEEEEAAAaaahhhHHH",
"The way you describe it is haunting. I’m still trying to decide if I can handle it without triggering some paranoia. That’s such a horrific thing to have captured. I just did some quick reading on this and found the interview of the cameraman. What a horrible thing to experience and capture especially since he was there for a crowd safety video something",
"More and more keeps coming out about this dude. Seems like a real piece of shit lol. He’s going to be one of the few that gets canceled for just being a straight up asshole",
"The venue was built to hold 200k, and was only booked for 50k people. They had literally a quarter the fucking density the building was made for and couldn't control that shit.\n\nImagine if this happened on a year they were able to do max capacity.",
"Being an edgy douche is what got him this far",
"Ahhhhh good to know.",
"What's fucked is the Google store ads that use a robot voice, which is, I'm assuming, because it resonates more than a human voice. Fucked, we are.",
"Do you start sprinting when angry? lol wtf are you talking about.",
"ReminMe! 1001 years",
"They are protocols. Which is why it's weird to call a protocol a \"missed chance\".",
"Try /r/makemycoffin on one of the recent top posts there’s a master-comment with all the links to videos. I was gonna tag you but idk how to type out your name",
"I don't follow any main stream media which I've ever encountered any of his work. I only heard about his name from McDonald's from that promotion last year, but didn't even know what he did despite that, and didn't care to know. Not sure how that is hard to understand.",
"I thought it was a country singer.",
"Probably costs less than the refunds and lawsuits, though. Maybe there's something to be said for taking a few bucks less up front.",
"Glad to know I'm not the only one. I knew he was into aliens and weird shit now but I was kinda confused how he became big enough to have a stampede at his concert.",
"Tool did this at San Diego Street Scene in 2006. The crowd was swaying and there were pockets of people getting dogpiled. You had people trying to pull from the bottom and they would get pushed on to of everyone else. Maynard stopped during the second song and told everyone to back the fuck up and they wouldn't play again until he knew everyone is safe. It took 10 minutes for everyone to get back on their feet. Maynard then lectured the crowd about looking out for one another and how the intermission costed them a song.",
"That's bullshit lmao. You're new to hiphop. Travis made a whole new sound. Cole is your everyday backup rapper, he ain't doing anything new, he raps well. Kendrick is on another level for sure. But influence and impact wise, Travis takes it.",
"Take a look at r/TravisScott they are ALREADY spinning the story in his favor…",
"/r/cheeseandricereddit",
"This is my first time watching any video of the concert, as anything like this where it involves a lot of people packed together truly triggers me. This was much worse than I imagined. The fact he kept going like nothing was happening…I’m disgusted.",
"That’s very disturbing. I think I’ll read some more about this tragic event before watching the video. It’s so bizarre how the cameraman was there for a crowd safety video seems to have turned out to be a video of the complete opposite.",
"He's a super famous rapper, what do you mean\n\nI agree it's mostly shit screaming in the mic, but people go to shows like this because they like the artist more so than to hear a great gig. That's how it be",
"He can't speak any further. There are rules in place to not talk about it.",
"Guy was legit one of the most famous people on the planet, even more so now.",
"ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ",
"Shit was like this when the Beatles came out. Fucking pussies.",
"Live Nation is rich enough to buy their way out of justice",
"Bunch of drunken kooks too busy at the bar or sniffing in the toilets to wait for the show they wanna see.",
"That is the thing. This venue was build for 200k people. The concert was 50k.\n\nThere was absolutely enough room for this many people. That is how badly they fucked this up. Imagine if this was a year they could do max capacity.",
"If “cancel culture” is a real thing, this fucking clown needed to be cancelled this weekend.",
"Yeah it bums me out a bit to see people acting like the act of moshing is the problem here. There's etiquette to mosh pots, they happen all the time without incident like this.",
"Your comment: \"welll, actuallyyy....\"",
"Benzodiazepines",
"Well, this just seals the deal on the lawsuit's. Him and his label gonna be forking over a lot of money",
"Yeah doesn’t look good when every video I see of him singing over the people dying there’s the Apple logo right there in the corner of the video. Was it their cameraman the audience members were pleading with the get help? Not a good look for Apple. Stick to tech.",
"Oh damn so thats where I remembered his name now...",
"He really is stupid, he probably had no idea how to function off script",
"But that is not what the comment was referring to, now was it? It wasn't referring to her dad spending her money.",
"Yep, the naive kids in this thread don't know just how predatory Live Nation is and how many times they've been sued for a slap on the wrist.",
"This dude is clearly satanic it shouldn’t have taken this tragedy to figure it out",
"I mean yeah I like their music not necessarily their morals.",
"He wasn’t telling the crowd to flip off the ambulance; “put your middle fingers up” is a thing almost all rappers say during live shows.",
"Never heard of this guy before until today lol",
"Yes it is, it's sick that this guy and the security/planning for the show didn't plan better, it's sick that he acted the way he did during the show, and it's also sick that people were worshipping this guy so much that they would disregard others around them and just push forward against the crowd.\n\nI have been to so many metal shows and gotten in countless pits with all sorts of madness going on but any time someone starts getting violent in a way that disregarded those around them they got drug out, usually by the crowd. That's how much people look out for each other. If the crowd didn't handle it, the artist almost always notices and stopped the show to kick any assholes out, even in massive shows.\n\nI can't imagine what it would be like being one of those kids at the front of that show and the pain they felt before dying because of these completely preventable things. Fucking ridiculous.",
">The lawsuit calls the festival disaster a “predictable and preventable tragedy” that was motivated by “profit at the expense of concertgoers’ health and safety,\" as Billboard reports.\n\n>motivated by profit\n\nGod I hope money has *nothing* to do with LiveNation or Travis Scott getting away with this. But that’s just wishful thinking for justice being served. The criminal “justice” system fails many people regularly and I’m afraid this is gonna be another one of those cases.",
"Man... I don't feel so fifty-one years old now. Thank you for admitting this so I could come out of my closet of past-my-prime shame.",
"Yeah that’s usually what performers do when on stage.. keep performing",
"I was there, don't remember hearing this song bc I was too busy trying to catch my breath",
"I can only speak from my experiences but I've been to a lot and have never seen any metal band or any act for that matter condone shit crowd behaviour. I'm not saying that all musicians are perfect, I'm just talking about my personal experiences. \n\nI'm in Australia and we seem to have a pretty solid vibe in our crowds that show a lot of respect for each other at all sorts of gigs and festivals. I worked in ticketing for 9 years and travelled around Aus with; metal, EDM, rock, punk, DnB and dubstep festivals and I have never experienced anything like this.",
"That's... quite the opinion. The US probably has more large events than any other country in the world, with basically all of them, with one tragic exception, going off completely without incident. So it's kind of bizarre that you think the US doesn't take crowd control as seriously as other western countries.\n\nWhat's more, a cursory glance at the [list of notable stampedes and crushes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_stampedes_and_crushes#20th_century?wprov=sfla1), in the years since the last incident in the US, there have been incidents in Israel, Northern Ireland, Italy, England, France, Argentina, Malta, Poland, Spain, Hungary, Germany, and the Netherlands.\n\nTo think that crowd control issues are unique to the US and the trird world might be the most arrogant thing I've seen on reddit in quite a while, which is honestly impressive. Congrats.",
"Macho Man Randy Travis",
"Yeah he stopped, but he could have directed the crowd to move and he didn't. I also just think its shitty behaviour for a performer to continue performing while some kind of emergency is taking place.\n\nI do believe that Travis is responsible for countless reasons in this situation. The venue was too crowded due to way too many tickets being sold for the space (EDIT: the venue apparently was big enough), plus people who just showed up (which is behaviour he has a history of encouraging). The whole thing was completely mismanaged too (lack of security etc) and that stuff is also partly his responsibility, especially because this is a festival that has his name on it.",
"Fuck you!! People died and this piece of shit is flipping of the rescuers? What if it had been your family in crowd you fucking clown. This isn't first time he has done this. Get trumps dick out of your ass and think before you make stupid fucking comments. You my friend are what's wrong with America.",
"He'll prob complain about being \"canceled\" & \"censored\" like most rich folk do to beholden his base. Remember, he has connections to the Kardashians aka the lost fourth K in KKK.",
"Lmao that’s a good combo tho",
"I have no idea who this is or why people like hime but clearly he is a jackass.",
"Fuck Jenner too for supporting this dick cheese.",
"Just to be clear if you ever find someone without a pulse the correct action isn't to \"take them to the medical tent\" as she stated, it's to immediately start CPR.\n\nEdit: Because apparently some people need to hear this: ~~ALWAYS~~ Never perform CPR where it's unsafe to do so.",
"Plenty of people like him rap about being violent psychopaths who would shoot a person in the face just for looking at them, and they make millions of dollars a year from people who support them.",
"Honestly, I love apple products but I’m really surprised that no one is talking about that apple kept streaming the concert long after they must have found out what happened. They should have ended the stream as soon as they got word of what happened.",
"Glad I switched to rock and metal before this happened.",
"Its more a numbers game. I was halfway or further back to the stage at a Made in America festival...all of a sudden I kept getting pushed and I'm yelling at people to back the fuck up but they couldn't because they were being pushed. Just so happens that a fucking ambulance was trying to get through the crowd. For sure nothing was communicated through the PA, pretty sure it it was either during Phoenix's set or before/during Beyoncé, guess no one died though.",
"And I probably made a comment in the same vein before any of them did.\n\nHaving performed live on stage, often you've got absolutely no fucking idea what is going on in the crowd. Sometimes you literally cannot see your hand in front of your face. \n\nPeople freak out in crowds all the time, incidents happen frequently. This is the nature of a live event.\n\nYou can be Cedric bixler and tell the crowd in 2001 that they are a bunch of sheep for moshing to music you don't mosh to. Or you can be Fred Durst and allow the professional event organisers to organise the event. Neither is actually wrong. Fred Durst wasn't found culpable in the death of Jessica Michalik. The very same may be true for Travis. He may legitimately not have known the seriousness of each incident. An event doesn't get cancelled Everytime someone passes out, so why would you pause the event if you were under the assumption people were simply feinting? \n\nI'll swing the axe, but best know the details before you execute a man.",
"Great. Every person in that chain of command should be held accountable if the problem was not that there wasn’t a protocol in place, but instead that it was not followed.\n\nThat said — cutting the PA is one thing. Is there a procedure in place to immediately get the voice of a person in charge up on the PA so they can give clear, detailed instructions to the crowd? The way you describe it it sounds like they can tell the sound person to cut the audio but that may not be sufficient in an emergency.",
"financial penalties are just a cost of doing business. If it's not prison then it isn't punishment.",
"I love Mac but way more people listen to Travis, specially gen z",
"Not what I’m saying homie, everyone in the industry knew Mac and his music. He came out with psychedelic sounds and influences way before Travis. That’s what I’m saying.",
"Are you trying to say his brain cell comment is immediately linked to his race? Why the fuck would you even imply that what’s wrong with you? And you try to say it with like holier than thou attitude... disgusting typical redditor",
"So why not be prepared for that? He had like 2 medics lmao. One lady died because the guy trying to save her had no help.",
"He isn't liable for the safety of the individuals attending the event. The venue has their own safety coordinators in place to assess the crowd and prevent this kind of thing... the surge of reddit posts about other artists pausing the show to throw a water bottle into the crowd are generally the exception to the rule. Artists also generally point out to the staff when they see people who need help, which I saw one source claim he was doing.\n\nHe does have an image to keep up, and the show must go on, as much as I don't like him or his music.",
"100 % correct",
"Lol that was so long ago and yt people still find any reason to bring it up",
"I don't even know who this dude is. My niece has to know about the newest pop stars singing along in the backseat. Is he the new NSYNC or something?",
"I fucking hate this guy",
"your comment history is even more cringe lol. you have a shit personality but good luck with that.",
"Been listening to hip hop since I was a kid. Again, his influence and impact is NOT based on his music. What are you claiming Travis Scott is doing that is a whole new sound? Auto tune and trap drums?",
"WHAT????!!! THATS PREPOSTEROUS",
"Yeah not surprised. This dude’s whole brand is just based off of partying and getting high. Fucking loser",
"I recently watched a video of David Lee Roth busting his nose open on live TV with a mic stand, and recovering professionally. \n\n\n \nThen one of some lunatic rushing Slash on the stage, and Slash recovering professionally to finish the song. \n\n\nAnd then one of a guy playing violin at a symphony when his string breaks, and he recovers professionally. \n\n\nThis guy... \"woah woah woah... uh... woah... um...\" \\*looks around in a confused manner\\* \\*spins a couple of times in place\\* \"woah... man... uh... what should I... um... I guess we'll go on...\" \n\n\nBeing a celebrity ain't what it used to be.",
"Also saw comments suggesting apple's requirements for live streaming blocked off bits of normal crowd area making it more of a funnel and thus contributing to the problem.",
"He doesn’t personally coordinate medical/safety. Live Nation would, in this case.",
"Lol because I know the history of that insult? Sorry you don’t, bud.",
"Yes, and everyone for gets kris Jenner is his mother in law and Kylie Jenner his baby momma x2",
"Lots of racist ignorant ppl and trolls in that sub",
"r/IAmVeryBadAss",
"If an artist today puts out a psychedelics trap song people will probably say it sounds like travis scott before they mention Mac. They just make totally different styles of music.",
"Yep, because it is. Feel free to catch up.",
"January 6th > \"am I a joke to you\"",
"How many people have to say this? Lol",
"Mcdonalds just did it for publicity, trying to save face about the bombshell of them being racially prejudice. Thats why all their specials had somebody black being the forefront. And it worked obviously.",
"Watching this after seeing the video of Marc Rebillet stopping his show when someone had a seizure is just disappointing. Some people just don't know how to care about others, in any capacity.",
"There are videos of multiple different festival staff members saying the reason they couldn’t cut the music is the streaming agreement",
"I got onstage for the finale song at a Thirty Seconds to Mars concert in December 2011 in NYC. \nA girl passed out on the front of the crowd and Jared Leto immediately stopped the show. Once she was safely transported out of the venue and well wishes were given, the show resumed.",
"My most interesting knowledge of that event, was that most of the people that lived who didn't escape the building were actually the people who were covered by other people. The fire burned around them and because they weren't directly exposed they could live vs the ones at the top.",
"P.O.S !!!",
"Do you have evidence to support your first statement? I've seen this repeated but have seen no evidence. I have seen others say this just isn't true with links to the entire performance but I haven't watched it.\n\nEdit: I see from your other comments that it is a twitter post. Thats a stretch for me. The way everyone brings it up on here is as if he told the people to charge the stage while performing which just didn't happen. I'm not of the belief that his tweet is what did this.",
"People like you are the worst. Stfu",
"His whole rebel persona is a fucking joke. His mom worked for Apple and his dad had a business and (per his own wiki) they cut him off financially in his 20s.",
"Comparing this to the video of Marc Rebillet stopping his show when an audience member had a seizure, it's just disappointing how some people can be so incredibly self-centered.",
"Trap is music without a message. It is fucking empty. What do you expect from the guy, a Nobel prize? The lyrics of the entire genre are limited to bitches and money.",
"That is actually horrifying. I can’t even imagine the feeling of helplessness",
"Does a middle finger make you a “gangsta” or something?",
"Reminds me of The Station fire. Except that band manager[ showed serious remorse](https://youtu.be/kVvm1qUOh-Y) and took responsibility. This is different, and it’s even more tragic when promoters or artists take no responsibility for their part in a mass casualty. \n\nI feel for the guy “responsible” for 100 deaths more than any party involved in the 8 deaths at AstroWorld",
"Nah your not wrong but I think the other guy was talking influential not about being the first, ford didn't invent the car they just popularised it type of shit.",
"To be fair, those were all examples of things that happened to the artist. So them collecting their shit and moving on is part of being a showman.\n\nTravis Scott on the other hand, had 8 people trampled to death in the crowd of his concert, got annoyed at the ambulance at first, then realized something was going on, told his crowd to flip off the ambulance, then continued with the show before the ambulance left the crowd.",
"Chris Brown got PR cover from Rihanna, the woman he beat up, defending him publicly. That changes the debate at least partially from what a monster he was (is) to whether she had battered wife syndrome or similar and her mental state. Without that, I think he would have taken a bigger hit.",
"Welp this thread just sent me down a two hour rabbit hole. Had never heard of The Station before today",
"I found myself at a G eazy concert at lolla a few years ago and there was a terrible amount of crushing to the point where my friend got picked up off his feet. They cut that shit out so fast. Right when the stage saw it, they were giving the ultimatum of everyone taking like ten steps back or not performing.",
"Everyone in the industry knew Mac and his music.",
"To him those children are a publicity stunt that ended after the 1st year",
"Think he’ll get cancelled over this? Doubt it.",
"I've read that the venue could handle significantly more people than were present and that police presence as well as private security were way up from last time they held this event. They tried to prevent it at least somewhat.",
"Ehhhh gotta continue disagreeing. They’d definitely say ASAP Rocky over Travis.",
"Yeah man that's cool and all but I think context matters",
"Ok, it is a little bit complicated.\n\nThe first Loveparade was in Berlin, 1989, and a political demonstration with around 150 people. Over the years it grew (1.5M people in 99) and was commercialised more and more.\n\nIn 2001 Germany's highest court stripped the Loveparade of it's political demonstration/gathering status (because it turned into a huge commercial event) and therefore the requirements for the gathering changed and it became more expensive to get the required permits etc. \n\nAfter a short hiatus from 04-05 it restarted in Berlin 2006, with a new, more commercialised concept. The original founder (Dr. Motte) was not happy with that and distanced himself from the new Loveparade. It wasn't a big hit.\n\nSo they (organizers of the new Loveparade) looked for new cities and partnered with the Ruhr area, Germany's largest urban area, for five years. It took place in Essen 2007, Dortmund 2008, was cancelled in 09 and finally in Duisburg 2010, where the catastrophe happend.\n\n\nDuring its time in Berlin, the Loveparade was like a big march though the city, on Berlin's biggest streets. The Loveparade in Duisburg was held on an old train depot and the main entrance was through a 400m (quarter mile) long tunnel.",
"If they're a celebrity you can safely assume they're a bad person. Doubly so if they're a rap musician.",
"Most music festivals have some ambulance like activities going on, especially during the main act. \n\nI’ve seen many people taken out on stretchers from a crowd from a wide ranges of genres. Him seeing ambulance lights would not be that unique and videos like this are kind of pointless.",
"I'm sure the $30 ticket surcharge on their next big event will cover all lawyer fees and victim compensation. Back to business as usual. What would be really nice is if people stopped buying their bullshit tickets. Consumers ultimately decide who and what businesses are successful. Don't count on the courts to hold them accountable for anything more than a light lash to their wrists.",
"Examples?",
"Better than sticking up for racism like you ya little edgelord.",
"Condescending much?",
"Rihanna was asking for it and had multiple chances to leave the car, Chris Brown even tried to force her out of the car as she attacked him before he beat her up the night of the photos.\n\nAll of that is Rihanna’s account of the story btw",
"Man what a shit human being. I hope karma gets him",
"haha GOOD ONE!",
"Black people cant be dumb?",
"I know at rock shows, especially festivals, there's a festival stage manager, AND a stage manager for each act that is responsible for relaying info to the artist. Crazy that this didn't happen here.",
"He’s kind of a flaccid performer, isn’t he?",
"I'm so clearly disconnected from what the kids are listening to, at least some of them. That said, Travis Scott is a stupid fucking name.",
"Oh yea im not strictly blaming just him for this its a lot of stuff but he could himself have prevented some of those.",
"You think rich people go to jail in America? Lol where have you been buddy?",
"Yeah, systematic failure. Plenty of historic examples but shocking it can still happen.",
"Let me guess, you miss minstrel shows.",
"He should be charged with murder or something... Probably never will because famous and money.",
"One thing about these festivals with a small amount of stages is that people pack in for hours and hours through multiple acts to get up front for the big names. By the time the big acts come up on stage, many people have been dehydrated and hot for hours. \n\nWe need to really think through these festivals going forward. One idea that bonnaroo does with its main stage is to have a pit that is emptied out every act. You wait towards the sides of the stage near the middle-back and get in the very front for one artist.\n\nEven with that system, it is very chaotic up front. I once spent 15 minutes with festival medics trying to make our way back to where I was that I saw a passed out person. It was just impossible to find them, and they had to leave to help someone else we came across. The entire time we were out, they were getting radio messages about many many other health emergencies. Eminem was also playing LOUD realistic gunshot noises, which caused some people to quickly retreat the first time it happened. \n\nThis isn’t to say that was anything like astroworld. The Astroworld footage was absolutely terrifying, and I’ve never seen anything like it. I don’t want to give the impression that this is normal at all. I thought normal festivals were dangerous, but this is an entirely different thing. \n\nWe’re going to need professionals to look at these events going forward. At a baseline we need: more medics, free cold water that is accessible near the front of stages (festival water is often 10 dollars), and artists that do not encourage moshing with crowds of 1000s of people. \n\nAs a final note: if you’re at a camp-in festival, DO NOT sleep in your car. People die nearly every year at bonnaroo from cars either with people getting heat stroke while passed out in them from the night before, or with the exhaust filling up tents.",
">what would be really nice is if people stopped buying their bullshit tickets\n\nOnly way to make them feel any sort of regret or remorse is to hit ‘em where it hurts. Hurt the wallet, that’s all that matters to them.\n\nNeed a worldwide boycott of LiveNation events or they’ll just get away with it and it’ll be, like you said, business as usual",
"That reminds me of a girl I knew when I was in high school. She said some pervert tried to grab her in a mosh pit, and some other dude picked that guy up and threw him out of the crowd.",
"Fucking Texas.",
"FUCKIN' LOU, MAN...",
"Lmao you’re the one being racist here and then trying to speak from some high horse point of view. Time to head back to the Russian troll farm drawing board Mikhail cause it’s not cutting it",
"More Idiocracy",
"dumbass",
"không hiểu gì",
"Did Chris Brown get canceled for beating the living shit out of Rihanna? Nope",
"He's definitely an asshole but there's a string of failures the reddit hivemind is jumping over. It's well known his hype 'style' is borderline inciting riots. Travis Scott didn't organize the festival himself, in fact he probably had no hand in the venue setup or security at all. Live nation and the city of Houston had the responsibility of ensuring 50,000 people's safety against a concert that they knew would be hectic. There's a lot of people to blame, Scott included.",
"Sounds like America.",
"What a pos",
"Lots of reddit posts I’ve seen lately of artists doing what they *should* do when their fans are in danger, and holding Travis accountable and using him as an example of what not to do, which is great, keep it up, but not a lot of mention of LiveNation who are equally at fault here.",
"I don’t like Travis Scott but he doesn’t make trap music",
"Sure, whatever man.",
"You got any others since this one didn't really pan out for you? I hope you didn't use the same google skills to research the side you agree with.",
"He’s a massive spoiled man child with no concept of anything that’s further than his nose.",
"Why are people saying that as if they are like proud they didn’t know it. It’s an extremely weird flex. Whether you liked him or not he’s insanely popular. I’m not sure why people like to brag about lining under a rock. There’s nothing wrong with it obviously, the flexing is just weird. And don’t say you’re not.",
"Live Nation is also a concert promoter who puts on events. So booking talent, selling tickets, marketing, the whole thing.",
"It's nice we make trash like this a celebrity. It would be nice if the masses cheered for intellect.",
" Who was the middle finger for 🖕🏽the person dying?,the ambulance trying to get in?or if he really is a devil whorshipper was he flipping off GOD?",
"That’s insane. I also had a bad experience a few years ago when the mass shootings seemed like they were every other day. Was at a small concert and just heard gunshots on the other side of the room. Whole crowd of about 30 or 40 rushed to the same exit instantly, and I was in the middle getting pushed down on top of a girl as we got trampled on some stairs. Broke and dislocated my shoulder and lost a shoe, eventually was able to get up and ran through the city at 1am with one shoe and a broken shoulder until my girlfriend at the time picked me up and took me to the hospital. Taught me a lot about panicking and escape routes and all that. I try to spread my personal experience on here as often as I can just hoping someone will remember it if they find themselves in a bad scenario. Never saw the shoe again",
"It shouldn't be difficult to find. He also has been convicted and admitted guilt to doing so twice before. \n\nPer NYT it's now coming out that he was also directly warned by Houston Chief of Police about the crowd issues before going on stage. (again, his brand is literally and legally the promoter as well as the performer) despite an earlier statement he made stating he was unaware of the issues.\n\nOnce the police chief quote was announced he came out voluntarily covering funeral costs and therapy in addition to a newly updated PR statement which admits some fault (legally speaking) so his lawyers know the dude is at least somewhat fucked.\n\nThis whole thing is honestly incredible to watch as a person with no real opinion beyond finding legal fault. It's basically a future court case playing out live which is getting continually worse for Mr. Scott.",
"Yes but it's not just people in the industry who listen to music and get influenced, also why are we not talking about cudi? I'd say he's more influential than all of them and was doing it before them.",
"Fuck this guy",
"You know, I was thinking maybe, just maybe, he didn’t know exactly what was happening. Pearl Jam didn’t know until they were informed by their manager at the Rosklide.\n\nBut no, he was told there was a “mass casualty incident” and he kept performing for another 37 minutes according to Independent. 37 minutes. Some of the kids might have survived if he stopped right then and there. I agree that the entire management/security is responsible too, but to stop a show somewhat peacefully especially when it’s full of shitheads, it had to come from the performer. So for that, fuck Travis Scott.",
"I was at concerts like this throughout the 90s. And this whole episode has me wondering, How was I not crushed at every single show?",
"It looks like it but I don't think they are leaping into the crowd.\n\nThere's like a 20ft gap between the stage and where the crowd is fenced off from where security and other personnel can move around the stage, they jumped in there.\n\nEven those fools are dumb enough to hear \"people are getting crushed to death\", as is alleged, and jump in there 10 seconds later.",
"Yeah I was looking for something also to see it. Haven’t found anything but did run across this article with an expert talking about how they work if attendance limits are adhered to. \n\nhttps://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2021-11-06/travis-scott-astroworld-festival-seating",
"I don’t know what country you’re from but in the US a middle finger is not a gang sign. As a matter of fact there’s a good chance you’ll see a few in your lifetime from neighboring vehicles while you’re driving down the road.",
"I wouldn’t expect anything more from the quick witted hip hop stars of today.",
"But Scott has already been sued for inciting riots so he likely had to take out his own insurance since the venue probably didn’t want all the liability. This is a total guess. \n\nHowever this is his personal branded festival so he probably has more say in the logistics than say a headliner at Coachella",
"r/morbidreality \n\nShit’s depressing as fuck",
"This is why rule #1 in the mosh pit is: if someone falls you help them up.",
"Fuck this guy.",
"Fuck Travis scott",
"It did occur to me how easy it is to armchair QB this. And also, all the lights that must make it very difficult to see the crowd. I don't disagree with most of what you said....but the ambulance. He had no regard for it.\n\nI was honestly surprised though how many counter videos popped up in that sub showing artists on stage doing exactly the contrary.",
"The reddit teens are downvoting me because I think nearly all other music is better than \"Uh uh yeah yeah 90210 90210\" or whatever the hell Scott was saying in his autotuned live performance.",
"LOL, then what word would you use to describe this?\n\nYou can’t point to minstrel shows from generations ago and say “you can never call a black person dumb again”. An entire race can’t get immunity from being called out for stupid acts.",
"They are also mostly against pointing the phone camera at yourself and broadcasting that to people all the time. Like some photos and video clips or a little bit of streaming here and there, maybe a few big time streamers / social media people, but it's nowhere near the level and as widespread as the US.",
"I’m just gonna leave this here, because Dave Grohl is 10,000 times the showman that Travis Scott is now, or ever will be!\n\nhttps://youtu.be/FR530bo4ceU",
"Whether you like his stuff or not ( it’s hit or miss for me) the fact is, he has quite a few top hits. And has a huge fan base. I can’t wrap my head around people trying to pretend he’s a nobody. Sadly, he’s EXTREMELY POPULAR, well before this incident.",
"How can anyone even listen to this auto tune garbage? ………..wait it’s the baaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaaaa sheep",
"The fans that are defending him are almost as bad as Travesty himself.",
"I mean it looks like no matter how you slice it, he should be held responsible in some way since its his companies setting this whole thing up. That is separate from your first statement though which is what I was curious about, found the answer from your other posts. I still don't agree with your pushing of that info in the way you lay it out. I would at least reword it. Personally I find it misleading.",
"90 seconds between when the cameraman notices the fire and starts to move towards the exit and the front door becoming so jammed full of people that bystanders and firefighters weren't able to pull them out. \n\nThere's an excellent lecture given by lead lawyer for the tort suit representing the victims and their families where he breaks down all the factors that made the building unsafe and the fire so rapid and so deadly. The multiple layers of foam used to provide makeshift noise dampener on the walls burned so fast and so hot and produced such toxic byproducts that the people who survived did so purely because of \"luck of location\" of where they were standing when the fire started.",
"Yea but then we just cancel people who hurt our feelings, no the people who need actual canceling. And letting an outraged twitter mob decide who upset their feelings that day isnt the best way to conduct this either.",
"I mean the alternative is a bunch of redditors using the sub as an opportunity to air their racism freely",
"Give him the death penalty.",
"Also, is COVID just over in Texas? Even without the injuries, that many unmasked people in close proximity is insane.",
"Less about braincells more about how he doesn't give two fucks for other people's safety",
").x z",
"Reply to edit:\n\nTwitter is public speech. You are legally responsible for the things you say on there, which is why people bring it up. If a private individual makes a death threat on twitter, it's a legal death threat and treated as such.",
"She wasn't even on a stretcher; she was just on a backboard. And she wasn't attached to it in any way by whatever chucklehead laid her on it. [So this happened.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qos3ox/astroworld_fest_officers_drop_girl_head_first/)\n\n(Edit: I don't think this particular person was dead before or after being dropped on her head, though. Certainly unconscious, though. I don't know the extent of her injuries.)",
"Welcome to reddit where if you criticize a shithead rapper's mumble rap..... you get compared to Adolf Hitler somehow. What the fuck, man?",
"Hyacinth you probably need me",
"Oh your right. Only 8 deaths this time, the others were charges for inviting a riot, and the time he urged a kid to jump off a balcony where he got paralyzed and dragged him onstage after he was injured. I was wrong, he doesn't have a history of this sort of thing. What an upstanding young man.",
"Your comment history is so weird.",
"No culture",
"Before this I had never heard of him. I hope I never do again.",
"He's been around since 2016? Causing problems since then? It's not even Manson/Ozzy-style shock rock that can be written off as part of the schtick, is it? Sounds like this guy is actually just a wad who thinks his brand is cool. Giving rap stars (or whatever this is?) a real bad name. Took me listening to rap from other countries to get into it because otherwise it's all a bunch of thug losers here.",
"Pretty sure I saw them land on a lot of people though. Are you saying they just landed cleanly on the ground?",
"It’s sad man. A lot of these guys were filming and going along with it too. All of a sudden they wanna act like they wasn’t going along with it.",
"Not low IQ or single brain cell jfc. Call him an idiot like anyone else, otherwise you’re perpetuating pretty gross stereotypes from literal slave era USA.",
"Can we trade this dipshits life for someone we already lost? Like Chester Bennington, Paul Walker, Trevor Moore. Just to name a few.",
"Keep defending that piece of shit. It definitely doesn't reflect on you as a person.",
"Arrest this dip shit. Continued while paramedics taking and treating people for over 30 min",
"If you can’t reach anything to help pull yourself out, quicksand is absolutely scary.",
"##**IMAGINE ALLLLL THE PEOPLEEEEE, GETTINGGGGG CRUSSSHHHHED TO DEEEEAAAATHH!!**\n\n##***YOOHOOOOOOO***",
"Bro he pointed out the ambulances and then said put your middle finger to the sky while still looking at the ambulances like.... lol",
"As is tradition. Carrie had a gigantic coke habit during the filming of the OT. You can see her giant coke nail in multiple shots of ANH.",
"Doesn’t change the fact you completely made shit up to push an agenda, but I understand it’s pretty embarrassing linking a source that debunks yourself.",
"He had to stop on account of he kept dying all the time.",
"I agree that mosh pit is the wrong term but I understood what they meant. You still get crush situations in front of the actual pit. Been in lots of them where you levitate if you pick your feet up, can't lower your arms, and wring the sweat out of your shirt after the show. I've only been to one show where you couldn't ask for help and immediately have a group of people pushing backwards, building a wall, and helping people GTFO.",
"There's so much proof, I don't know why he's even trying to lie about shit.",
"at ACL to see Metallica, waiting in the same spot without moving for 4 hours. Metallica comes on, and this couple tries to barrel through the crowd and crashes into me. I push the guy as hard as I can while screaming \"WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?\" repeatedly. They stopped trying to move further into the crowd and stood 10 feet away from my silently the rest of the time.\n\nCoincidentally, Travis Scott was the replacement for childish gambino when childish dropped out because he broke his ankle. Travis Scott screamed into the mic and sounded like shit and I watched arctic monkeys instead.",
"Not surprised. I saw a video where a girl and dude climbed a ladder just to tell the cameraman that someone was dead and the guy seemed way more concerned about filming and not letting anything interrupt that. Not sure what they are told before but seems unacceptable to be more dedicated to the product then the safety of attendees",
"I think we can all agree that this poser is really just another mentally unstable piece of trash.",
"For me it's the audio, some kid screaming \"help me!\" in abject fear",
"Took too much. Light's on but nobody is home",
"Genuine question: are of the opinion that TS continuing on with the rage-hype and then the next song after the short pause, as seen in this video, was responsible?",
"If no one from PG&E went to jail for all those fire deaths, no one else will ever go to jail",
"Like a life saver at the beach. Someone who monitors the crowd and is trained to know what to look for.",
"Who ya gonna call when you need a hand? The local drug dealer...",
"True.",
"But yet his retarded fans are saying he’s got nothing to do with what happened and is not responsible for anything g",
"It’s a very common insult. You’re going to have to get used to that fact, and understand that 99.9% of people are using it for that reason, not as a callback to the racism of the 1800s.",
"“What is that ?”\nThat my friend is bad publicity. \nCommon bruh use your head",
"Houston and Travis makes me think of Paris, Texas.",
"There’s at least two documented occasions from that concert where he was 100% aware something bad was going on. Not to mention his well known history of being a total prick and endangering those around him for kicks.",
"This thread is gold.",
"His momma aint proud",
"How is that possible?",
"I didn't make anything up. I misread another post and thought the paralyzed kid had died. The point stands that this piece of shit has a history of inciting violence at his concerts and doesn't deserve a pass claiming he shouldn't know better. People who defend these pieces of shit like him and Chris Brown just because they like their music are nearly as bad as them.",
"Vile sack of shit",
"The concert was on Fortnite was pretty cool, I watched it with my son. As for Astroworld, what a sad and totally preventable tragedy.",
"Why are people listening to him lol",
"Or The Transplants",
"The chief of police in houston is friends with Travis Scott. No I'm not making that up.",
"Lol, yep, showing my age but have literally never heard this name before.",
"Honestly couldn't tell what the point was besides middle school edgyness.\nBut then he goes into wanting the ground to shake as people need medical service and that's being a dick.",
"I didn’t look at the comments but the posts didn’t seem racist at all (at least sorting from top)",
"Wtf this so awful! He should be sewed and never be an Artist again!",
"Only kids listen to his music and you know they are bitch made because this dude could literally make two contradictory statements and they would cheer for both.",
"[Superior, I'd argue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89_soJefAQY)",
"When I first read the headlines, I though this guy’s name sounded like a skateboarder. Maybe one who also made music. I’ve never heard of him before because I’m white and late 30’s. I’m more into 90’s and 00’s hip hop. From what I’ve read, he sounds like a real douche. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say this incident won’t hurt him much unfortunately. People have short memories. Like another redditor said, see Chris Brown. Sad situation.",
"I saw Eminem once, he said the same thing.",
"Lol. Obviously you haven’t been to the front of concerts before. I’ll say again, shits been like this since the Beatles and Elvis. People act like they don’t know shit anymore and expect everyone else to explain risks to them. That’s the problem with America, is dumbass motherfuckers like you that don’t know shit about fuck.",
"I work in Houston in the restaurant and bar scene and Travis Scott, Drake, 10 - 15 twenty somethings piled out of a bus on Saturday night, a day after the concert, fucked up and partying near downtown. Piece. Of. Shit.",
"This was a ritual sacrifice",
"Unfortunately it will take many of the families turning down multi-million dollar settlements for Live Nation to make any real changes. LN would rather settle for 10 million dollars than do what is actually necessary to prevent further deaths which means 10x that in lost revenue. And I can't blame the families either. If you're faced with being dragged through courts for years to get the justice you deserve (real change in the industry), or taking a million in cash and moving on from your grief, it's not an easy decision to make.",
"What form of murder charges will he be getting hit with in the coming days?",
"And by the way, who is he anyway? Not a musician, that’s for sure",
"Which is also two first names. Same with Emmanuel Lewis for that matter.",
"I don't think that word means what you think it means. Keep defending that scumbag; you deserve each other.",
"> I had to go to into full elbow mode to clear a few people for a few seconds to pick a small woman off the ground and then create a cage with my arms to get her out.\n\nDid she ever forgive you for abducting her by force from that sweet Incubus concert?",
"I’ll give you an 8 on wordplay and a 2 on timing. \n\nToo soon.",
"well, you DID make things up but anyways, He should be held accountable for his part in building the rager culture, and the whole production team should be questioned on their lack of communication. However, posting videos with misleading headlines/unclear context to incite the reddit mob is quite literally doing nothing helpful.",
"Nah. Plenty of blame for negligence to go around. Travis scott is equally culpable, don't ever believe otherwise. He is absolutely a part of why this went down. Many bad decisions from him led to this moment.",
"And fortnite. Which i never understood the point",
"What about Rogers Hornsby?",
"Trash.",
"Especially in an economy absolutely ruined by a pandemic. Millions of dollars can’t bring the family members back, but it can do a *lot* of other things for the families. Just a sad reality.",
"Ah yes, Metallica, the quintessential bluegrass band.",
"Easy, they just don't change out of their clothes from the night before. Or the night before that, or the one before that, and so on.",
"He was in the Aquabats? I listened to them on like '99 but I never know who is the bands I like. I know a bunch became Yo Gabba Gabba.",
"Having been in moshpits and packed venues a few times with Hardcore/metalcore bands playing, most of the time, I remember being, 18ish and falling down in/near the pit and about 3-4, maybe as many as 6 people immediately grabbed me, asked if I was alright cause I think it was a circle pit and things were getting rowdy for a crowd favourite (song wise) and ithink it was a circle pit (basically the pit was moving in a..centric/concentric almost flushing toilet like motion) and if you went down it was not only a danger for you, but everyone else because of the tripping hazard.\n\nAs for the \"rules\" or standard procedures, typically you wanna try and grab someone and make sure they are alright but it depends on the scene/vibes etc. Some bands/lines/festivals attract the \"Idontgiveafuck\" crowd or even worse the \"I want to fight\" crowd, seen a few people running around mule kicking people in the shins trying to force someone to start something.\n\nThe metal scene was rowdy as shit when I used to go to those venues but it was almost like a...mutual understanding, you go into it and expect to X amount of bruises, but NOBODY expects to get seriously injured frankly and thats the kind of stuff most people would jump on and call out, with a few exceptions.\n\nI remember being near the pit and folks thought itd be really fun to shove folks, full force into the mosh pit with no warning cause they thought it was funny, only to shove that same person back into the pit when they tried to leave.\n\nReminiscing aside, you dont really give people who fall down room to get up, you GET them up, few times I've had to stand someone up I practically manhandled them because you dont know WHY they went down or if they cant get up or stay standing.\n\nFrom what Ive seen of Astroworld there was no room to maneuver at all for some reason and people were practically standing on each other, plus I heard there was a crowd rush which is something terrifying. From what I've been able to tell about a crowd rush, you pretty much get a wave or swell almost water like of people that just shove everything forward/in a direction and death/injury/consequences be damned, and I cant imagine what thats like.",
"They were a corporate sponsor. They're at the bottom of the blame-totem pole here, but it's not a good look to have the apple logo near/associated with people being slowly and brutally crushed to death.",
"“*beating* your kids isn't just a black and white situation”\n\n??? Did you use the right word there?",
"Dude named fagdrop69 lecturing reddit about the morals of hip hop",
"The family that jails together goes to hell together or something.",
":)",
"Lmfaooo",
"Tragic Scott...",
"I’ve been to plenty of shows too. Where this is not even a question if someone feels uncomfortable you get out of their way or you help them. The fact that this happened, is just insane to me.",
"r/fucktravisscott",
"So glad I didn’t apply to their job posting. What a dumpster fire.",
"No need to tell me about it. I've only gone to concerts when I had box seats.",
"I'm all about singers/rappers being *nuts* on stage but you need to realize when serious shit is going down in the crowd",
"Yeah I'm a biggish dude. About 216lb, 6 foot, can bench my weight for reps so I do alright (blah blah, etc). I've been in these types of situations, and I have typically been able to push back, give some people some room. \n\nThis shit terrifies me. There's nothing most of these people could do, nor I. This is such an appalling fuck up by the organisers. I'm happy to hate on TS as much as anybody, but this should fully come down on the producers of this shit show.",
"I've watched a ton of messed up things online, but it has been a while. This really fucked me up though. I really can't imagine how helpless everyone felt.\n\n8 dead, 1 in a coma and countless others with trauma they'll be dealing with for life.",
"Me as well here, however, I also know that he is horrible vocally after listening to that. I'm horrified by all this, but also amazed that 50 thousand people paid money to listen to him. It's just boring.",
"In an otherwise depressing/infuriating thread, this comment gave me a good laugh",
"Pull the plug too early and they would have to give back the patrons even more money.",
"Dodged a bullet there, mate.",
"If he dropped dead right now the world loses nothing of importance.",
"I can understand that. I have generally avoided the largest venues/shows near me but there is still a level of courtesy and team work that would happen at every show I've been too. Except the one Disturbed show I went to. That was the only bad crowd I've had to back out of.",
"Nah the obtuse one is the person calling the guy that had a McDonald’s endorsement a “gangsta”.",
"He needs auto-tune, and cannot read music, or play a musical instrument.",
"Falling for boring, generic, corporate pop is one thing, but fucking autotune....",
"Thank you.",
"I hope he gets charged with manslaughter, but 8 counts.",
"They should have left the lights on the crowd on and stopped the show. Say something like music will start right up after we deal with the situation.",
"I've seen people say that the HPD could have stopped this concert much sooner than they did, but this video it self shows how primed against that type of authority Travis' fanbase were primed against, I believe HPD directly forcing it to shut down would have lead to way more injured and possible fatalities. I'm only saying this cause I've been reading comments starting to blame them for not ending things sooner. \n\nTravis Scott was the only person who could have gradually worked everyone down from how hyped they were and ended things early, but he didn't he continued to the end.",
"Ugh it’s all so horrendous 😓",
"Wow that sounded like shit.",
"He stood there watching a lifeless body being removed from the concert and still continued as the body was taken out. He was looking directly at this person. There is video.",
"> a young man's lifeless body is being carried off in the crowd\n\n**Travis Scott:** YeAeAeAEaEHHHHHhhhhhhhh....",
"Yeah. Bad call. Collecting your shit and making *the right decision* is part of being a showman. \n\n\nTravis seems to have failed in a relatively predictable fashion, here.",
"Yeah and you’re extra cautious when it comes to those that it might affect more, because it’s easy.",
"I never thought that he was \"encouraging people to flip off an emergency services vehicle.\"\n\nBut it's not like he didn't see it. Or, if he missed it? [His own blindness needs to be explained.](https://i.imgur.com/JfGgyZU.png)\n\nI would believe that many performers would stop the show for more than, say, 40 seconds if they saw an ambulance-like vehicle in the crowd.",
"She isn't under conservatorship anymore, ended at the end of Sept.",
"Gee, maybe if Baldwin's production wasn't busy making shirts that made fun of the union workers for wanting reasonable accommodations he could have hired somebody better.\n\nBut again, there were a LOT of people involved in this incident who could have easily done something.",
"Give this man 8 life sentences and call it a day",
"Yeah I don't think using specific genres to write off crowds makes sense.\n\nI've been to plenty of edm shows, as well as hip hop/rnb shows.\n\nAnderson paak, Donald glover, kendrick Lamar all had great audiences. Kanye west even had a great audience (although this was borderline).\n\nEminem had a pretty rowdy crowd though.\n\nIt's all about the artist and the type of crowds they bring in. Never seen Travis Scott live and have only heard like one song of his, but it's clear he wants *ragers*. This coupled with a bunch of suburban kids who don't understand mosh etiquette and are literally encouraged to be rowdy all played a role in this. \n\nAstroworld was just a disaster waiting to happen.",
"In order for this to make sense, he would have to be so dumb that he doesn't know what an ambulance does.\n\nPart of his draw is having out of control crowds hopping fencing and the such. He promotes it at his shows. It was in the promo videos for this very concert.\n\nHe just doesn't care.",
"Seems fitting that this guy dressed up as a roach for Halloween (though he claimed he was Batman).",
"It’s out of love bro <3",
"your comment history reeks of a friendless loser. so much anger, cringe",
"Good thing I have no idea who this guy is ans whar kind of music he make",
"What a piece of shit person, hope he loses his pants in the inevitable civil cases coming his way.",
"Just curious, what % responsible do you think the artist is for this specific incident? Cuz I'm at like 40%. (Another 30% for live nation the main promoter, 10% whatever security service was used, 5% the actual venue who doesn't even plan the event, and 5% apple the main corporate sponsor for this event)\n\nAnd before you answer, just take this bit of info with you - I broker insurance for large events like this, and the carriers, who spends hundreds of thousands on data research, say that the biggest liability exposure/marker for an event is the specific artists who will be performing at the event. And they use cold hard statistics/numbers using past events/claims. Just thought you should know.",
"The big Kardashian sister that remade her face is totally OJs daughter and no one can convince me otherwise.",
"The artist had the mic, he could have told the crowd they had to back up. Make room for the ambulance. Others have done so. He can see what’s going on.",
"Arctic monkeys would've easily been a better show",
"Went to a Parkway show, during one of the warm-up acts some dude put his hands down a chicks pants and up her top. Her friend saw it and told some dudes standing next to them what was going on.\n\nHomeboy got the ever-loving shit kicked out of him so bad the band had to stop to tell people to stop bashing him and get the cops to come and take him away.",
"Everyone on his subreddit is defending him",
"Let’s just call it what it is Travis Scott could care less about his fans. I mean his “Show” is Scott on auto tune and some dude with a iMac picking background music. So glad I left hip hop when I did. No regrets.",
"Where are the redditors dismissing the criticism of TS as racism ?",
"Yeah I literally make a living working live events I think I have an idea.\n\nWanna have a discussion about it or are you just gonna downvote, take your ball, and go home.",
"He clearly understood what is going on, but can’t stop himself. It’s a persona, it money, it’s fame.",
"Shut the fuck up",
"Everyone on his subreddit is defending him",
"I'm starting to think this Travis fellow is a real JERK",
"Oh yeah, absolutely agreed. I don’t think he made the proper choices during this entire thing. \n\nIt just seems like a lot of people in the thread legitimately think he wanted people to flip off the ambulance.\n\nIt seems like he saw it. Tried doing the most basic safety check possible. Then resumed. Which is not what he should have done.",
"It's a fine genre in isolation. However, people that make it their entire personality tend to be shitty.",
"How many riots did Axel Rose start?",
"Insurance broker here. You are probably right. Insuring hip hop events is ridiculously expensive right now, for reasons exactly like this. I've been selling insurance for over 20 years, and it's been so odd seeing hard Rock death metal punk shows go from being the most expensive events because of mosh pits to being some of the cheapest shows to insure whereas right now it's hip hop events that are the most expensive because of the reckless attitudes of artists in the genre. Death/heavy metal bands actually care about thier fans and will stop shows if shit gets out of control. and I don't even like that kind of music I'm just saying all this from statistical data I've seen.",
"That girl in the gold totally had her boobs grabbed by a stranger. What is wrong with these assholes",
"They are massively different situations, here you are acknowledging that and crying about culture wars. The people who cry about culture wars are the ones trying to incite one, it's deranged.",
"The sad thing is that if he had just acted like a decent human being and paused long enough to assess the situation and give people instructions (even just to freeze) he'd be sitting pretty.\n\nThe thing about PR is that it follows you. I remember seeing a video of Kurt Cobain pausing his concert to stop a sexual assault happening in the crowd. I don't even listen to music- that video is literally the only reason I know his name.\n\nDude could have been a household name when it comes to common decency but he'd rather have his picture in the dictionary next to asshole.",
"But they’re all downvoted. Why even bring it up? You’re giving a voice to the idiots.",
"Plenty of white people make trap music and arent called thugs.",
"The fuckin better be the case, for his sake.",
"They are about to learn how much financial incentive there is in not killing people.",
"Yeah I can’t speak for a concert like this, (apparently there were a lot of awful people in the crowd), but I always have memories waiting in lines for punk/metal shows where everyone is just talking mosh pit safety amongst others. \n\nI’ll always remember going to a Rise Against concert. This brick shit house of a guy stepped out from the lineup and got everyone’s attention;\n\n“Hey everyone, let’s keep it respectful in there! If you see someone fall, you pick them up! If someone’s hurt, make room! No fighting, nobody is here for that, but if you are…. come see me.” \n\nTo top it off; someone accidentally stepped on my foot causing me to trip. Multiple people caught me, but I lost my shoe. Mind you this was early in the night so I was pretty bummed as I made my way out of the mosh pit. A couple songs go by; and their lead singer Tim McIlrath holds up my shoe “hey somebody shoeless out there?” I raised my hand and everyone around me pointed at me like it was planned. I’ll never forget the cohesiveness & compassion in that particular crowd.",
"Found his PR.",
"Exactly, which is fucking weird how the entire focus is on Travis for \"not doing something\", as if safety protocols at concerts don't exist. The safety of concert goers should NEVER be the liability of performers, performers are not qualified nor should they be responsible for handling this type of situation. Promoters shut down shows for less. It's %100 due to negligence and failure by the promoters/security/medical team (some of who didn't even know how peform CPR.) So it's kinda insane people are treating it more as some sort of witch hunt for a scapegoat or \"guilty\" party, placing the entire blame on the artist and disregarding the systemic failures (at the hand of the people responsible for the safety of the show) that lead do this...",
"Thanks! I’ll take a look",
"can we say Ticketmaster is an accomplice and bankrupt them all?",
"In this situation, the correct action would be to take them to the medical tent because it was the only safe scene. Step one in CPR is ensuring the scene is safe for the victim and for yourself. If you have a an unsafe scene, you can’t adequately provide CPR. In this scenario, all the areas were chaotic making it difficult/near impossible to give proper emergency care.",
"He thinks he's tough shit",
"https://www.reddit.com/r/greenday/comments/qpdj61/in_light_of_what_happened_at_the_travis_scott/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf",
"Valid point.",
"Use yours. And do some research into his history inciting violence, instead of defending the \"poor defenseless\" scumbag. I was wrong about previous people dying, and I admitted it. The point stands that he has a history of this behavior, so what exactly am I lying about? You disagree with me that he shouldn't be allowed to plead ignorance since he has a history of the behavior? Ok bud. Don't agree. Have a life.",
"With a username like yours I can only imagine what your response would be in a stressful situation.",
"Some of you are insufferable with who you are willing to assign blame to. Yes it’s definitely Apples fault you Fuckin’ nerd.",
"I wonder if there's a secret pre concert event training video to identify the signs of these disasters that big artists have to watch, like cpr training.",
"Couldn’t disagree more. The nadir of American popular music was clearly the late aughts/early 10’s, I’d take artists like Olivia Rodrigo and Lil Nas X over LMFAO or Ke$ha every day of the week",
"I’ve seen no evidence to the contrary.",
"his subreddit is defending him it's fucking dumb.",
"Having been to and worked countless shows in the US and went to one overseas. There is absolutely no comparison in my personal experience. \n\nI have multiple ~~adversaries~~ acquaintances that have worked some of the bigger sized shows overseas that confirm that the work culture are worlds apart..",
"Did you even watch the video? He’s looking around confused and no one is telling him shit. What is he supposed to do?",
"Was just thinking that exact same shit, but you also gotta take into consideration Travis attracts the most tik tok people and high schoolers, none of which have been to a hardcore/punk/rock show I assume. They don’t know pit etiquette. No matter how much crowd killing is happening or just push pitting is happening, if a brother falls you pick them back up.",
"Guys any chance the middle fingers in the air were like Fs in the chat? Showing respect to the fallen or whatever?",
"I have been. But never had the headliner pull the BS this piece of shit did. From someone who served in the military I would expect more from you. You are no better than the piece of shit on stage. So if your gf had been in that crowd and hurt/died would you feel the same? I'm going back to your an ass hat and an idiot. Go back to your video games and let the adults carry on a conversation. It's called compassion and you seem to be lacking in that department. \n\nThis isn't first time he's done shit like this. Maybe do some research or investigation on your own. He is a piece of shit. I was at monsters of rock way back when with100k people guess how many died? None so fuck off....",
"It's not that he an asshole and doesn't care. Check out the video if him yelling the crowd to beat up a 17 year old kid when he lost his shoe.",
"You know nothing about them and got heated because of the way you interpreted something. Being a dumbass is a worse look. Maybe get that checked out.",
"He's the Donald Trump of the rap game",
"The book by one of the attorneys who represented the victims is absolutely gut wrenching.\n\nhttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15094720-killer-show\n\nSo many things that contributed to the disaster.",
"Again I state take trumps dick out of your mouth before you try to speak ....your fucking embarrassing yourself ...and your age is showing.",
"Wow that's crazy as fuckkkkkk damn",
"It's the internet. You can't just assume people are smart or have a good sense of humor. See: SJWs and/or Trumptards. (Covered both of my bases there whew!)",
"Piece of shit",
"I'd argue that there's probably not more music being made than ever, it's probably being recorded at a higher rate historically speaking. \n\nAnd obviously you missed the sarcasm/irony in my statement. Yes of course we listen to modern music, and just like the modern music of our own formative years a large portion of it sucks and tends to fall into the pop category. That would be Travis Scott. \n\nSo much of it is outstanding? No. We're exposed to a lot more music these days and this whole unbiased mass consumption of literally everything is what has poisoned Gen Z. That your problem - you guys just want to acquire every fucking thing without actually appreciating something unique and special to you.",
"Right...usually I find some way to justify the reasons behind gruesome footage, but these are all just kids who were trying to enjoy a weekend and listen to some music. Really tough to see and for all those people in the crowd to realize the same could have happened to them.",
"Not to mention the following that xxx fuck still has.",
"I've been to some rowdy ass shows and there was always a sense of camaraderie amongst fans and the band....this guy is on another level..its like he's there for himself....Kinda scary he's so popular and connects with so many kids....",
"Can I get extra barbecue sauce for my travis scott meal?",
"How can you say he ain't on the same level as Cole? Kendrick I understand but there's very few that come to Kendricks level.",
"Randy Travis had viral cardiomyopathy and a stroke a few years ago, praying he's doing alright today.",
"Sadly he is a corporate made product. The company that owns his brand began running PR as soon as Jenner started making calls after the VIP area was evacuated due to emergency. \n\nThe most he will get is a fine as his brain dead fans eat up the mainstream narrative.",
"Prolly high out of his mind thinking he’s dissing the cops. Either way this guy is a clown",
"This is all it would have taken. \n\n[LP for the win](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/qog3nx/how_an_artist_should_react_to_protect_fans_safety/)\n\n…but this douche canoe went the other way",
"Isn't that what good taste means? That you like what I like?",
"[it means peace among worlds](https://i.imgur.com/12kH0HQ.jpg)",
"Consider that R. Kelly was caught, *on camera*, peeing on a minor, and his career wasn't ruined until two decades later.",
"Yeah! Like a quilt!",
"What a role model.",
"Kylie never had a chance at being a decent person. One parent exploited her daughters’ “leaked” sex tape & pimped her kids to reality TV, the other parent got away with killing a woman.",
"Yeah, I had to turn it off knowing what’s happening. I was getting a stomachache.",
"This guy is a fucking pig.",
"Wow. Look in a mirror dude. Projecting much? Keep defending him. There's lots of shitty people that need you white knighting them after you're done here.",
"Not a fan of this guy or his music, but the mob attack on him is so manufactured. You could swear this dude did a mass shooting or his intent was to kill as many people as possible. The music was stopped and he points over there. His face shows some concern, he's just keeping the crowd alive as a performer and maybe not ruining the mood for everyone else. There's no way you can tell from that far if it was just someone passed out and not someone actually being dead.",
">a grade A douchebag who doesn't care if people are dying right in front of him\n\nNext time you hear of him, it'll be 'Travis Scott (R) - Texas'.",
"Some bands have great music but suck live, some bands are great live but the music isn’t that great. This guy sucks at both",
"thank you for this comment. I was there and in certain places in the crowd you wouldn’t even know something was going on. the most heartbreaking piece of evidence is the video of the girl and guy trying to get the camera man to stop because he had the most control of the visuals on stage and he literally told the fans to fuck off because he was just doing his job. i think the staff is mostly to blame but there can definitely be an argument made that it was travis and his team’s fault for hiring such shitty event staff",
"He also performed at the Super Bowl, for what many people cite as the worst halftime performance in the show’s history.",
"Water, duh! That's where the boat go.",
"...Fuck, you're right. Commenting while tired and using a different app is not a good mix.",
"I sometimes watch the video of her blacking out on live TV and rub my hands together like Mr. Burns [muahahahahaha](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWVMUr33lAk)!!",
"And if this wasn’t the first time he did something like this… then why is this a shocker for you and people that attended? Shocked pickachu face. I’ve been in crushing crowds before not even in concerts where someone could direct the crowd. Obviously you don’t shit shot about the military because that institution places so much importance on individual responsibility… maybe something you are lacking. Again, shit had been like this since the 60’s with people dying in concerts but I guess you’re too fucking dumb to do research and learn that hey maybe there are risks inherent with being in a huge crowd. Fucking dumbass.\n\nThis is akin to people wanting the covid vaccine when they are dying of covid and on a ventilator. Dumbasses like you don’t know shit about risk.",
"As most rappers are these days.",
"And they cancel each other out",
"What the actual fuck",
"That and just shitty fucking people in general clearly",
"At first I thought he was a POS. Now I have no dought…",
"News outlets atm are already trying to paint him as a innocent bystander that was just trying to get the crowd help. I fucking despise media",
"can you send me a link of the video so i can see?",
"You don't know the Croz?",
"You guys need to get a life fr, nothing is gonna happen to him, or Joe rogan, or any of the people you laughing stocks mock, always gotta have something to be angry at bc you have nothing to do in life it’s sad",
"Do you think any member of The Aquabats has had a crisis backstage before where he goes \"I CAN'T DO IT MAN...I JUST CAN'T PUT THE FUCKING COSTUME ON AGAIN!\" and the rest of the guys had to calm him down?",
"No they are playing rock paper scissors",
"Same. I work for a large festival and the amount of things that went wrong here or could have easily been prevented is ridiculous. Fuck Travis Scott.",
"how is this behaviour at all like rogans behaviour",
"You can hear him say it on their Live Era ‘87-‘93 album. It comes at the end of Mr. Brownstone. You can kinda make out someone laughing when he says “I see people in pain”.",
"I saw video posted to Twitter (in a reply to his apology script tweet) the showed a whole security team escorting his family out as soon as he knew shit was happening.",
"Did you *really* think that OP believed Chris Brown became famous *because* he beat Rihanna? Did you *really* think that OP believed that Travis Scott was not famous, but that he could use violence to propel himself to fame? Really?",
"I dunno, this is different. This is a very public incident with tons of cameras recording very disturbing footage firsthand. And it occurred at a different time in our culture when people are more willing to \"cancel\" (I hate that word in this case but I can't think of a better one right now) someone. I always think about how Chris Brown's stupid battery incident BARELY missed the modern era of cancel culture and he somehow got fucking grandfathered in to pop culture's good side, like a fucking asbestos popcorn ceiling installed in the 70s.",
"I am always down to link a jacky chan clip\n\nhttps://youtu.be/rxZFEA1MJM8?t=34",
"Ehh, I think it’s more heartbreaking than empowering. \n\nI also speak from understanding the negative effect that internet and screen usage has had on my own ability to recognize, empathize with, and healthily express emotion. \n\nI’m probably of the last generation that regularly had unsupervised/ unmonitored fun for the majority of their childhood. Kids these days don’t even have a chance.",
"Oh is it? I haven't seen any at all the last 24 hours.",
"That was the top",
"had to scroll way too far to see this comment. not condoning it but there’s a reason he didn’t get clipped for attempted murder. either way guys an asshole",
"300+ IQ comment",
"I doubt it.",
"Yeah, my ex blamed Rhianna. That was a very surprising position for her to take, saying she deserved it cuz of the shit she said.",
"*When",
"Not saying anything about him being an asshole or not. I never heard of the guy until this week. But continuing to perform while your crowd is literally dying doesn't make you more $.",
"Is he asking the crowd to flip off God or something? After the crowd trampled people?",
"The crowd recoils because they’re headed their way and then moves back . I have no idea if they landed cleanly though, there are still people in that inner area.",
"I don’t think he’s that dumb. I think he is a terrible person that doesn’t care if people get hurt and likes his fans to go hard for his shows, even if it means passing out and dying.",
"Ah. Check it out. I guess they do care about black people in America.",
"Where’s Nike’s statement?",
"Wow ok thanks I appreciate the info I'll have to find a good video on this event. I vaguely remember reading about tunnel and how absolutely boneheaded it was to have an controlled crowd go through there. \n\n\nI work doing live events so I'm always interested in this kinda stuff. (fire codes, crowd control codes etc) the science of crowds and how closely it resembles fluid dynamics. \n\n\nI've been caught in a crowd a few times it's absolutely terrifying because you have no control whatsoever. I think that's why Astro world gets to me on a few different levels.\n\n\nThere's no fucking reason for this shit to happen anymore.",
"https://deadspin.com/travis-scott-is-worse-than-iggy-azalea-1682870003",
"What happened in it?",
"To be fair, he didn't say flip of the ambulance. It sounded more like a crowd unifier than it did insulting paramedics or telling the ambulance to fuck off. Unless I missed something. Either way, I hope this dude loses his career after this.",
"Meh I've scared my soul on the original ISIS videos where they drown people alive while hanging others from a school playground with a small fire below them. Also, the Mexican cartel extracting organs from alive people. There are worse out there that I regret where I was convinced humans are just animals undeserving of any gods love.",
"Huh, is covid eradicated in the US already? That’s a lot of people in one space.",
"Same. Metalhead for life. I was at a 1349 show once and they literally stopped playing a song called \"Slaves To The Slaughter\" in the middle because someone got knocked out in the pit and we had to help them. Metal shows really are a brotherhood.",
"It’s not",
"That's the thing, it was by pure chance it wasn't more people. The fact that nobody stepped in, seemingly at all, to stop the show and move people back is crazy.\n\nTravis Scott obviously didn't care, though Drake hasn't shown any real concern either. He posted a video of him dancing while people died with the caption \"My Heart goes out to those who lost their loved ones\". Like, bruh, wtf kind of response is that?\n\nLike you said, it was just a weekend for people to enjoy some music and have a good time. Not be trampled and die or nearly die while nobody helped and show kept going on. Nightmare material right there.",
"I'm not really seeing what you mean, sorry.",
"That reminds me of the pancake story I read a while ago on here..",
"Everyone stop!!! Flip off the ambulance! Okay let’s go…",
"I mean.. you're both right, and wrong.\n\n> She is 100% convinced Travis knew his fans were dying and continued the show \"to make money\". \n\nIt's pretty clear from even the preliminary info, that he ignored blatant visible signs of distress, his fans and crew begging for help, and unconscious people falling out by the dozen twenty feet from him. He for sure saw plenty to understand what was happening. This was after the event had already been having crowd control problems, which he was informed of before going on stage. Did he continue performing because he's evil or greedy? No, probably not. He's just an incredibly self centered egotistical asshole, that is just ok with people getting hurt at his shows. Probably thinks it helps his image somehow. Let's not forget he has a history of this behavior, including arrests in 2015 and 2017 for essentially the exact same thing. He just doesn't give a single shit about safety, or consideration, and people continue to get hurt because of it.\n\n> I think he fucked up, monumentally, but more out of ignorance, stupidity, and poor communication - not some malicious intent or inherent evilness. \n\nStupidity, for sure. Poor communication? I highly doubt this, unless he was purposely sheltered from the event staff and security. He looks confused because he is weighing his options, and decides to continue in spite of significant reasons to, at minimum **pause** the show for EMS, or even to walk back stage for direct info. Ignorance is absolutely not an acceptable excuse. Plenty of artists have tactfully handled this exact situation with even larger crowds, so the venue and show isn't to blame.\n\n>There are so many failures that led to this. You cannot blame just one person.\n\nFor sure. \nI blame the stage manager for allowing the show to continue after TS chose to keep going, as they had the power to halt the show and didn't. It's their responsibility precisely because the artists may not be aware of major safety concerns like fire or weather.\n\nI blame the Front of house team for not stopping all video, bringing house lights to full, muting the PA, and start making announcements to assist safety and rescue. That is S.O.P. It's even worse to hear multiple accounts that they also ignored cries for help, and threatened people trying to get their attention.\nAs a Houstonian in the industry, I'm disgusted by this and am actively trying to find more info from their perspective because something is amiss.\n\nI blame the security manager for not preparing with proper barricade placement that specifically addresses crowd-crush, like you're supposed to do on large festivals. Or additional staff to handle a show that is well known to be rowdy, disrespectful, and prone to drug overdoses.\n\nI blame HPD for not requesting the help of the HC Sheriff's dept or additional Fort bend EMS and Rescue.\n\nThere's so much more to this story than people realize, so he's not entirely to blame. Ultimately though, the buck stops at Jacques Bermon Webster II. He had the power to help, chose not to, and people died.",
"https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdYcuHD5/ relevant",
"Full on stopped watching blackish after they had him on for an episode. Fuck that. Fuck him. I’m all for redemption and stuff, but that implies not being a piece of shit anymore.",
"Times like this makes me glad I have no interest in ANY major music artist. I'll never be at risk for bullshit like this. So sorry to anybody affected.",
"Texas doesn’t accept your plandemic! Moreover, it is quite easy to see this entire affray could have been solved if all of these individuals had concealed weapons. As we know, it only takes one armed good guy to stop an out of control stampede of bad guys. Lastly, it’s quite obvious this crush was not the result of inadequate regulation and poor planning. It was the result of too much regulation. It would have been far more more efficient if the concert promoters could have simply just maimed and robbed all of these people. Of course Nancy Pelosi, Bill Gates, and the Jews are opposed to efficient capital structures, so we get this.",
"I don’t think you could ever hold them with intent. From there, good luck proving negligence to a criminal factor.",
"No, he's a narcissistic asshole and doesn't care. It's just his personality. You can see people telling him what to do and he says no.",
"Fuckin no-talent biter",
"It make me feel literally sick...",
"Doesn’t he say “if everybody good put a middle finger in the sky” Like trying to have the crowd say “we’re ok” I don’t think he was flipping off the ambulance or anyone needing it.\n\nHis schtick is “rager, anti-authority” and he just stuck to that schtick in this moment instead of being genuine. Idk this post is a stretch to say he was saying “fuck that ambulance” but he’s definitely an idiot for not taking a moment to find out what was going on right then and there.",
"And if you happen to be a big, strong, loud MF who doesn't mind risking his life, stand at the door and enforce ONE AT A TIME THROUGH THE EXIT. Grab the nearest person and shove them the fuck out the door. You don't care where they land, only that they move. Rinse and repeat. With any luck, people will get the fucking idea and you can stop shoving. Otherwise, GTFO yourself, I guess.",
"Hit this guy where it hurts.",
"That’s not the only time he’s been violent towards women tho…\n\n\n[2016 article](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/timeline-of-chris-browns-history-of-violence-towards-women-103402/robin-roberts-interview-march-2011-103528/): Chris Brown’s History of Violence Towards Women\n\n\n[Chris Brown Threatens to Kill Ex Wife According to Court Papers](https://www.google.com.ar/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/chris-brown-threatened-to-kill-ex-girlfriend-karrueche-tran-court-papers-say/amp/)\n\n\nI honestly hope people don’t “forget” about what happened at Travis’ concert… I guess it’s up to all of us not to let this guy get away with his negligence.",
"Holy fuck I'll take Olivia Rodrigo and Lil Nas X over LMFAO and Ke$ha too. I think you missed my sarcastic/ironic tone.\n\nBut also I don't get the stupid tik tok stars. They aren't Justin Bieber or Shawn Mendez getting discovered on youtube.\n\nEdited to add - your original boomer comment? WTH, I'm 41. My parents are boomers.",
"This should be a season of American horror story",
"Kylie Jenner’s statement",
"Loving every minute of it, he's a disgusting psychopath.",
"...but on the other hand....",
"POS",
"It DOES disturb us.\n\nBut it doesn't disturb THEM.\n\nThat's kinda the problem, right there.",
"i get combat sports or high contact sports. there are rules to those things. its pretty clear cut line between what's expected vs whats not allowed.\n\nthere are no real rules to mosh pits afaik. there may be unwritten rules. i can understand the fun of slamming yourself onto others and vice versa but that said, it's a very high risk activity with low payoff. \n\nass holes exist, and you cant expect security to be alert and aware at a moshpit.",
"Yeah I saw that!",
">Cameron Herrin, sentenced to 24 years in prison in Tampa, Florida, in April for vehicular homicide, has been determined “too cute” to be locked up.\n\n>Three months into the 21-year-old’s jail stint, TikTok and Twitter users flooded the platforms with support for Herrin.\n\n>On TikTok, supporters of Herrin jumped to make fan accounts to pay homage to their hot felon. Some users made highlight reels of Herrin’s hottest moments in court, tagged with #justiceforcameron.\n\n>Herrin, a TikTok creator himself, has amassed 2 million followers on his verified account, despite not having any published content while behind bars.\n\nGet me off this wild ride",
"Not very talented, is he? Give me Kenny, Vince Staples, Denzel Curry, Childish Gambino, Tyler the Creator, Slumpgod…anyone who can command a stage and also respects the audience. Even on his best day, Scott wasn’t anywhere near that.",
"That “pyrotechnic effect” Eminem used scared the shit out of me, I had left earlier and from a distance, seriously thought someone set off a bomb in a crowd. \n\nFestivals can be intense, ask for help when you need it, take care of those around you, camel backs, electrolytes, and snacks will keep you and those around you going. Luckily, I believe most issues come from dehydration.\n\nIt seems with this crowd surge, the smaller/younger people were more at risk. I’ve been to big stages at events and I really feel like the younger you are, the more tolerant you are to being squished or disregarding others and forcing yourself through a crowd to get to a spot. It sounds like this crowd skewed young, inexperienced, and not very considerate of each other. A recipe for a least some injuries, obviously the absolute worst possible outcome here.\n\nA medical personnel for a recent festival in Florida had mentioned if anything happens to a person, someone should stay and put your arms in an X up in the air. Use flashlights to illuminate/get attention, send people out to find someone with a radio. You really should make space around the person if possible, place in recovery position if they are vomiting/etc.\n\nI’ve been to hundreds of concerts now, I can tell you the overwhelming majority acknowledge the need to take care, look out, and have respect for each other. Travis Scott’s message is completely wrong, and for a large part of these people attending, all they know is Travis Scott’s “rage” and fuck everything mentality.",
"“Our investigation into ourselves found no wrongdoing”\n\nWill there be another American coverup?",
"I listen to lots of music elitists would say are for morons, rap, metal, punk, pop, etc.\n\nMusical preferences do not denote intelligence.",
"I didn't really hold an opinion about this artist till about a day ago. And I found video of him him cooing \"Yeaaaah\" on an elevated platform while overlooking a limp body being crowdsurfed out was super creepy. His look and demeanor here strikes me as genuine confusion, and I considered that him asking people to put both arms up might have been a sly attempt to make some collective room in the audience. Except, he immediately follows it up by going in to song. I'm trying to tell if that's malice, ignorance or what.",
"Robbie’s gonna make it!",
"I've been in some tight crowds where I was literally picked up off the ground and just being pushed around by the mass of people. Felt like I was a boat in waves. Scary as fuck.",
"Okay, I can't take it anymore, it's BRITNEY not BRITTANY!",
"When a Rihanna song came on at work once, I had a patient tell me she doesn’t like Rihanna because she ruined Chris Brown’s career.",
"I’ve seen this at every Avenged Sevenfold show I’ve been to. Remember one time when they started their set and the crowd pushed forward and knocked the barricades down/pushed security forward. The singer stopped the show until security could fix the barricades. He calmed the crowd down and told them to be good to security. “They have family to go home to.” Good shit.",
"Being a piece of shit and having a pretty solid discography aren't mutually exclusive. It clearly isn't everybody's cup of tea based on this thread (even though a lot of that is probably just vitriol, which is reasonable) but the composition and production on Rodeo is super impressive. If that's what early SoundCloud rappers sounded like to you, I need to know who the hell you were listening to. Lmao",
"We live in a world where someone gets cancelled for an offensive tweet they posted years ago, yet when a rapper cares less about people dying at his show people defend him. Let that sink in",
"Not hard to handle this as the artist:\n\n&#x200B;\n\n[https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qo9uml/when\\_bands\\_stop\\_concerts\\_to\\_save\\_fans/](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qo9uml/when_bands_stop_concerts_to_save_fans/)",
"Truth",
"Ground beef and raw sashimi",
"He encourages the behavior. He wants his fans to rage for him. There's a video of him even cursing his own concert security before when they try to do crowd control.",
"What a disgusting person. Causes deaths of his fans the tells everyone disrespect the people trying to prevent further catastrophe. This little bitch is a child he throws a fit when he doesn’t get his way",
"ambulances aren't cops or lame authority figures. If an ambulance is there, someone is hurt you colossal dumbass.",
"Dude, I literally just showed you actual evidence of stampedes and crushes happening more often in Europe than in the States. You are still going to cling to this opinion?",
"Unfortunately, our society doesn’t care for or respect black women like they should.",
"Right? All these people patting themselves on the back for knowing rap is trash, meanwhile Kendrick was awarded a Pulitzer. \n\nIt’s almost as if an entire genre of music shouldn’t be dismissed due to one shitty artist.",
"I literally made a post about that, it is pathetic that some words someone said years ago is a bigger issue than this scum.",
"Its not the first festival with tons of people. Its clearly the artist's fault for being a \"rager\"",
"they call it \"raging\" but that's just code for \"acting like a toddler\", an ethos which strongly appeals to both children and morons, his two largest audiences. and it's no surprise that children and morons would fall for boring and generic sellout music that gives them free reign to act stupidly and be celebrated for it.",
"I have seen people rush the stage. Or push forward to try and see the artist if they are leaving. It could also start fear if they don’t know what’s going on.",
"I've been OOL on this entire affair - but from the little I've read and heard (5mins maybe?) - it seems that if he'd actually given a shit and halted his performance, maybe inquired as to the welfare of what was happening right before his eyes - there may have been fewer or possibly zero fatalities.\n\nAm I reading this situation correctly?\n\n/nosarcasm\n/genuineconcern",
"He has a pay to play contract that is called into question if the show is shut down. There's probably a minimum guarantee for showing up, but he stands to lose a significant stack of cash if it's shut down. Not to mention merch and other sales agreements that equal to thousands a minute at a show this large.\nPlus potential future revenue from the live stream, and recordings.\n\nI doubt he knew the people falling out were actually **dead**, but he was at least willing to shrug off unconscious, hurt, and terrified fans to keep the show rolling.",
"Somehow not surprised. If he doesn't get prison time and a lifetime ban from performing. Then justice has not been delivered.",
"Super rad!",
"The same people buying into this bullshit are the ones who bum rushed the festival and acted like shitbags. Idiocracy wasn’t a fictional comedy, it was a documentary",
"The fuck does that have to do with anything?",
"Good lord what a huge generalization about American rap, please.. keep listening to that other stuff",
"How dare she pun chold people! What did the chold people ever do to her!?",
"He seems to be offended that an ambulance is interrupting his show by trying to save his fans’ lives driving through the concert. \n\nIt’s funny with all the videos people are posting of other artists stopping concerts to help fans who are having issues. Here he is stopping his concert and telling everyone to give the ambulance two middle fingers and then riling up the crowd by demanding that they make the ground shake. He literally stopped the concert, stared, and then made the conscious decision to make the situation worse rather than helping.",
"Literally why I will not stay out of sight of the front doors, or immediate exits at music venues. I can *hear* just fine, I don't need to see the artists fucking hair follicles. I'll stay alive thanks.",
"I agree this would also make me mad, but.. If it's ok to beat up a kid for their shitty opinion, what kind of behavior are we standing against again?",
"Correct",
"Not a fan of this guy or his music but he didn't do anything wrong!!!!\n\n\nBro, have you not seen the literally countless videos of other performers stopping the show for much less than this.",
"Thank goodness I grew up listening to real rap and not this garbage. These poor kids today have to settle for this clown.",
"Was that when he replaced Avicii on the mainstage??",
"He’s part of the Kardashian klan, seems like everybody knows him Kylie Jenner is currently pregnant by him this will be their 2 kid",
"Mmm.. Mosh pot.",
"I couldn't put a number on it but I'll accept yours. I'm not denying that the artist shares blame, he kept performing and never tried to cool the crowd off after he noticed the ambulances.",
"You know he's committed to his craft when he ignores fans getting trampled to death. Can't let that conscience ruin your set.",
"And then he told everyone to throw up their middle finger and continues to tell everyone to “go harder”. He gets zero credit.",
"You can actually see the dumb in his eyes. I hope this mouth breathing motherfucker spends the rest of his life in prison.",
"Travis has been popular for about 6 years at this point. He didnt just pop up overnight lol. You're just openly out of touch.",
"Also note that people out there still praise Charles Manson",
"Yeah. I don't think he necessarily knew people were dying, but he knew it was getting too wild. He just didn't care, he had been telling people to sneak in and go crazy all night",
"I mean, I guess I get why everyone's out for blood here. But it's 8 people guys. **600,000** Americans have died of COVID and there's less anger over that than Travis Scott getting 8 people killed. Our species is fucking stupid man.",
"I just don't agree with the framing is all, I understand why people bring it up.",
"In his eyes it seems like he’s calculating how much money he will lose if they have to refund people their tickets.",
"What happened at the fest was horrible and he needs to be punished for it, but there's an awful lot of thinly veiled casual racism in these comments.",
"I dont think Apple will have any liability since they just promoted and streamed it. This is going to fall on Live Nation and Scott, and likely thanks to this video, Scott is going to face serious legal consequences. This shoukd be enough to at minimum ensure he never sees a stage again.",
"What trash music.",
"I feel like this is more a reflection on how society conditions young women to the actions of powerful and attractive men, like a seventh grader is likely gonna have some pretty shit opinions that's something that needs to be challenged and taught that it's not OK for men to act like that.",
"Something just doesn't add up for me. Crowd crush is not some new thing for live nation. I think they might have been scared Travis would have lost his shit and got people more worked up if the cut the mic",
"\nAh American role models , gotta love em. From the 50’s till now , mostly complete piles of selfish shit",
"He will be just fine, they're already playing the race card.",
"I probably said something exactly like that at that age. I blame being young and stupid. Saying things for attention and the like.",
"Travis Scott Karen’d his career",
"Paincakes*",
"merica!",
"I will no longer buy or listen to his music. I will boycott Kylie Jenner’s products. Otherwise I would be supporting the terror Travis Scott enjoys invoking in the fans who show up for him. I will have no part of this evil madness.",
"First time I've ever seen people jump without warning feet first on people's heads like that. And it looked rather choreographed.",
"Or... just Travis barker https://youtu.be/8B2HZwmzfXM",
"https://youtu.be/8B2HZwmzfXM",
"Many years ago in the 90s there was an event P Diddy was hosting at City College and some people there got trampled. It was before he got really big like he is now. He was up and coming at the time. Wasn’t nothing compared to this but still horrible in which people died.",
"It just keeps getting worse. I liked it better last week when I had no idea who this fucknuckle was.",
"I'm not really defending him, just calling you on your bullshit. You either need to stick to facts or take a course on literacy.",
"Honestly didn't know who this guy was until a few days ago. Wish I still didn't. He sucks.",
"Maybe \"Put your hand up if someone by you needs help\". \n\nBut having everyone put their hands up makes navigating the crowd a lot more difficult, because you've just made the crowd at least 2' taller and harder to see over.",
"That works if you are part of those special groups.",
"When I first heard about this incident I assumed he was a country music singer lol.",
"dude needs 8 counts of manslaughter, inciting riots, preventing medical aid... and i'm sure there's a bunch more. Motherfucker needs to be in prison. Fuck his career.",
"I'm still amazed everyone is calling it an ambulance. It was a golf cart with flashing lights. Id assume it was just security or something.",
"No they wouldn’t. I’ve been at a couple shows organizers have ended early due to safety concerns (often times lightening storms late into a festival). They don’t give back anything.",
"I'd vouch for any Insomniac event in the US. They have 25+ years of throwing large EDM festivals here in the US. Just went to one with around 150k in Vegas.\n\nEach stage has multiple exits in the back and sides so that there is no single bottle neck. They make sure big name artists are performing at the same time so that attendees have to make a choice on who they want to see so that one stage isn't overly packed vs others. They have barriers throughout the crowd in the larger stages to separate the crowds into mini sections that make the crowds more manageable.",
"Not to sound trite, but truly- What a total piece of shit.",
"That's not individualism. That's being a selfish cunt. There's a difference between valuing the individual and making sure pieces of shit are happy. \n\nI seriously don't care about american standards. Individualism is wanting to be your own self, not wanting to do something for others is not only a wrong perception of individualism, it's not even on the same wavelenght of ideologies.",
"Absolutely. Though, I do think some of the responsibility is on the VENUE and its security. There have been deaths caused by crowd surges at Guns n Roses and AC/DC concerts. I've been to a hip hop concerts where we crowdsurfed a girl to medical who had passed out. It isnt about the type of music...it IS about the crowd's physical movement and where the surges go..",
"Slipknot, Linkin Park, Billie Eilish, Adele, Kurt Cobain, Post Malone, just to name a few, ALL have videos of them during concerts stopping in the middle of a song because ONE fan fainted or saw a fan being sexually assaulted. Pleading ignorance does not work in this situation when the audience is collectively chanting “stop the show.”",
"This is what he thinks of his fans. 8 of his fans died and he tells the rest to flip them off as they die. He getting canceled?",
"\"pit etiquette\" is really not what we think it is. I've been to DRI shows where people were whipping fishing hooks on fishing line, punk shows where dudes had razor blades on their leather jackets, and even got a rib cracked by someone at a madball show who was swinging a pool ball inside a sock around.",
"Maybe Steak48 will sponsor him. Apparently after his Death Fest- he was there with Drake getting drunk\nhttps://twitter.com/ayypauly/status/1457906224146497536?s=19",
"This should have an NSFL tag. I switched it off early but I still regret watching it.",
"Dave Chappelle was right. Some people should just never be given money.",
"Fuck an ambulance yo.",
"This all definitely bring back some memories. The one Show I remember the only show I was in with the a \"I want to fight\" crowd was Disturbed. \n\nBut if you weren't bleeding by the end, you weren't doing it right. Saying that though, 98% of people at every other show were looking out for each other. The other 2% were unceremoniously removed by the rest of the crowd. Either rushed and crowd surfed out or dragged out by security and others. \n\nI think I'm just in shock about this whole story. Its just hard for me to wrap my head around. I guess it's a combination of the artist attracted that kind of shitty crowd, him not stopping the show, and total mismanagement by the venue.",
"There is footage of two producers on stage trying to tell him. He ignores them and tells everyone to put their middle finger up. His 100% culpable.",
"Bruh Travis Scott's music is so fucking bad and the fan base is like 75% fuck boys. \"Sicko mode\" is one of the dumbest fucking songs I've heard in my entire life. And I like everything from ASAP rocky to The Faceless. Dont get how he has a following, but seeing how shitty the fans are makes it make sense",
"Live Nation \"Ticket Master\" Doesnt give a fuxk about anything but profit.",
"Travis Scott fan base has an I.Q of a walnut so there probably won’t be any backlash",
"Is he stupid wtf",
"There's a part in the full concert video where, toward the end, he says some stuff about loving the community and doing everything for them, and giving back, etc, etc.\n\nAnd I just can't help but imagine the people being sucked underneath the crowd while a sea of bodies crushes them, hearing, \"I'm doing this all for you,\" right before they pass out.\n\nThis whole thing has been more terrifying than any situation in a horror movie I've ever seen.",
"So? He didn't make the people charge the stage.",
"I mean, I would argue the opposite. You'd have to do some pretty hefty mental gymnastics to think he's meant flip off the ambulance. This is coming from someone who fucking hates this guy.",
"Travis Scott has a video where he brought a fan with a wheelchair up with him to insure he was safe and to enjoy the show. So what are you saying? It happens all the time in crowded shows. It’s not his fault. Tbh it’s the venue for overbooking and not providing sufficient medical staff or equipment.",
"Murderer. Right there. That’s all we need.",
"Hah. No he's not the only one at fault. People saying he had no way to know better are just full of shit. Oh no, it happened again, how could he have possibly have known it would happen again?",
">And do you really need a video of Travis inciting the crowd? \n\n\nUh yeah?\n\n\"Do you really need evidence of something everyone is claiming?\"",
"Crazy how girls can find a guy who actually almost killed a woman is something that can be defended.",
"Lol put two middle fingers up. This guy thinks he’s deep but is just a dense fool.",
"Press the three dot menu button on Travis Scott and select “Don't play this artist.”",
"/r/leopardsatemyface\n\nThey tried to cash in on human trash because kids are easily marketed anything subversive... Oh no it turns out the trash is toxic.",
"You mean where he told the crowd to flip off the ambulance? Yes, that is pretty damning.",
"Ambulances are present at a lot of times in shows like this, one ambulance is not correlating to mass causality event. And if who ever was on the radio to him told him that it was fine then how is he to know differnt.",
"Wow this music sucks balls",
"He met with security for 15mins and the Houston Chief of Police advised him that more security was needed. This professional advise was intentionally ignored. There is footage of his spitting on a fan and telling concert goers to beat up a 14yo kid. He has encouraged fans to jump from 3 story balconies and now they can no longer walk. He has a history of inciting violence.",
"Watched it in a fire training class in college. Will never forget the guy stuck in the wall screaming lucidly for help, then returning to the scene and only charred bodies remain.",
"Great analogy. Like Teflon, nothing will stick, yet toxic as hell.",
"I'm 40, and genuinely like a number of rap artists even though I'm a pasty goth mom, but I don't get it either. There's just no talent to him, the beat isn't anything special, the lyrics are unintelligible... I have one guess: maybe it's like Phish? Like, the concert scene itself is the attraction? I've been reading about this since it happened. Apparently he has a history of out of control events. \n\n\nI've been in mosh pits, I've pogoed in compact crowds, I've been surrounded by people on lots of drugs, but I've never seen medics ignored or impeded.",
"A bit? He’s full on deranged and detached from reality fully.",
"why people even talking about suing this guy. Dude needs to go to fuckin prison. Inciting riots that caused loss of life, obstructing medical aid. Should get at least 8 counts of manslaughter for the shit he's caused.",
"yeah but even prior to that, i don't think the public gave a shit. if anything, it only increased his notoriety and made him more popular for his street credibility. or like when lil wayne plead guilty to illegal possession of a firearm and was facing 10 years in prison when they found it on his jet, along with cocaine, ecstasy, marijuana, heroin, pain killers and prescription-strength cough syrup, along with nearly $26,000 in cash. nobody cares. \n\nor when gucci mane went back to prison for smashing a bottle on some fan's face in a club when the guy asked for an autograph... dude was hospitalized and had to get all kinds of stiches and shit. and the backlash was just a hashtag campaign to \"free gucci.\"\n\nit's kinda the image people expect from artists in the genre.",
"so why do you mention them in the same sentence",
"He didn’t know. People get pulled out for medical reasons all the time at concerts.",
"if you didn't see a lot of replies here now describe it.",
"You mean where he told the crowd to put hands in the sky and flip the bird? It’s legit not even related? What a fucking narrative Reddit has built lmao.",
"Can't read music? Perhaps he should turn to Floyd Mayweather for some help with that.",
"Safe to say he’s cancelled?",
"I'd throw Cudi into that mix before Mac and Rocky, but they all had their own take on the subgenre.",
"He can clearly see something is wrong. What’s wrong with him? 😢😡",
"Roseanne's tweet will be viewed more negatively than this.",
"He literally pointed out the ambulance, then told everyone to flip the bird right after. Stop fanboying and look at the evidence.",
"Yeah, okay dude.",
"For what it's worth, when the Station Nightclub disaster happened in 2003, Clear Channel was held responsible for 22 million dollars, even though they were only tangentially related to what happened, and at least one of their on-air talents died in the fire. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire#Civil_settlements",
"**The Station nightclub fire** \n \n [Civil settlements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire#Civil_settlements) \n \n >As of September 2008, at least $115 million in settlement agreements had been paid, or offered, to the victims or their families by various defendants: In September 2008, The Jack Russell Tour Group Inc. offered $1 million in a settlement to survivors and victims' relatives, the maximum allowed under the band's insurance plan. Club owners Jeffrey and Michael Derderian have offered to settle for $813,000, which is to be covered by their insurance plan due to the pair having bankruptcy protection from lawsuits. The State of Rhode Island and the town of West Warwick agreed to pay $10 million as settlement.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"Yeah I’d agree with that. But acting like trav was some huge influence, never was.",
"It's so weird when ppl proudly claim they've never heard of someone...you want a cookie? Not knowing one of the popular artists of the time with multi millions of records sold? OK right on",
"Hopefully.",
"Holy shit that guy is bad. Like go back to the high school playground bad. How did he get elevated so much and sponsored by companies like McDonalds? A testament to how bad society has gotten.",
"Since music algorithms have gotten more robust, unless I'm craving a certain song, I just let it play random. It has been a few years since I sat down and made my own playlist.\n\nI have over a 10,000 songs in my Spotify. I couldn't even begin to tell you the names of half the artists. \n\nI can say that Travis Scott is not one of them. That whole genre to me is trash",
"Don’t bother. His PR bots are working overtime.",
"It's totally physically exhausting too. It feels like the crowd drains all the strength from your limbs.",
"I never even heard the name before this weekend. I presumed he was a country music singer (lots of them seem to be named Travis) before seeing this video.",
"Let us all raise or middle fingers as a method of crowd control as getting every one in the crowd to do one single thing is a great way of creating order and stabilising the mess.",
"Fuck Travis Scott for this, trash ass bitch",
"Yeah a video of him spitting at a fan that tried to steal his shoes and telling people to beat him up. He wasn’t aware of dude’s age. Just that the dude tried to steal his shoes. There is context and you are misrepresenting the facts to fit your narrative.",
"Around the same time he also told the crowd to make the fucking ground shake, literally told them to jump as hard as possible, as many people were on the ground dying",
"Did Apple have anything to do with the production itself? I thought they essentially just had exclusive broadcasting rights?",
"😂😂😂😂\n\nCrowd control. By the guy who resumes the concert while people are being trampled to death.\n\nYou fans are the worst",
"Lil Wayne getting caught with contraband isn't a controversy. Perhaps that's what you mean but it's worlds different than someone like Chris Brown, who very much received pushback but just retains a very loyal fanbase.",
"This guy is not very cool I am seeing.",
"He had an opportunity to do the right thing in a time where people see so much chaos in the world….",
"Around the same time he also told the crowd to make the fucking ground shake, literally told them to jump as hard as possible, as many people were on the ground under those feet",
"Right?! I thought he appeared to look genuinely concerned or at least Aware of what he was seeing... but then to just respond, asking people to raise their finger and Then continue on... I still don't get it but it certainly came off to me that he was telling everyone to flip off the ambulance.",
"He said “is that an ambulance?” while looking confused, very clearly hearing what’s going on in his monitors, then started stalling the crowd by having them flip the air while visibly looking around for answers with the crew on stage and behind stage. He literally didn’t ask anyone to flip off the ambulances but that’s what’s being spread here. But sure, you know more lol.",
"Yeah. It's hard to argue that anyone at live nation intended to design an event that would result in deaths. Manslaughter would be more possible, but even that seems like a stretch.",
"My heart breaks for the people who died, who got injured, who saw others die and get injured. For those who found out after that people were dying while they were dancing. \n\nA concert is supposed to be a place where you have a great time, not where you get crushed to death because some motherfucker doesn't tell his fans to clear the way for the medics to get in and out, make sure everyone else is ok, tell them to listen to security, how to be safe (move back, stop the crowd crush) and help each other be safe (pick each other up). \n\nNo one should die at a concert like this. He could have helped. He just made it so much worse for everyone there. Fuck this guy. I hope when he closes his eyes at night images of these people dying and suffering haunts him.",
"That's because they jumped straight on to people lol",
"Around the same time he also told the crowd to make the fucking ground shake, literally told them to jump as hard as possible, as many people were injured or dying on the ground under those feet",
"Why is he popular?",
"Then you're wrong.\n\nYou can think the earth is flat too, not going to affect me.",
"I just watched the video and he said \"if everybody good put your middle finger up\"...NOT put your middle finger up to the ambulance/medical staff.\n\nI want to know WHY THE FUCK people running security for the event did not pull the fucking plug in this concert. That is their literal fucking job.",
"I'll never understand the popularity of the \"trap\" genre. Its vapid \"look at me\" garbage that only encourages people to be willfully dumb and belligerent.",
"Yeah what is context even? Fuck me should read a book.",
"I’m aware of the context, thank you. Travis was crowd surfing so it’s easy to lose a shoe in doing so. Not sure how that justifies spitting on someone, a human being, a child, a fan, someone who paid to be there, nonetheless.",
"Every single artist that has released music under a major label over the past 20 years has used auto tune. It's industry standard. I find the manipulation of the human voice to be very interesting and is only criticized because of a lack of perceived skill. Auto tune is one of the best things to happen to music in the last 20 years.\n\nReading musical notation does not mean an artist lacks skill, that's just simply how musicians have been able to communicate with each other over the last several hundred years, but as time moves forward it has become less and less important for artistic output. One of my favorite jazz musicians Dave Brubeck could not read any musical notation at all and released one of the greatest jazz records of all time. While he did have very good knowledge of music theory to back his improvisations and compositions, you only really need to understand the bare fundamentals of music theory go compose a compelling song, so maybe an understanding of basic scales and chords. The actual structuring of a song can be done completely outside of the realm of music theory and notation, it is by no means necessary.\n\nSomething that many trained musicians cannot do is create a compelling melody, which can be done without knowledge of theory or the ability to play a traditional music. There is nothing wrong with making music through the use of fl studios and a few pads. Travis has undeniably created some of the most compelling music of the 2010s, and that is not my opinion because I've never been much into his music, but generally it's a fact considering his vast appeal and general influence on the genre as a whole.\n\nTo say the guy can't write a good song and is talentless is objectively incorrect, as he clearly has made many songs that effect people's lives profoundly and has helped produce several albums over the past 10 years to critical acclaim. He has really pushed psychedelic hip hop into the forefront over the last several years and his influence shouldn't be diminished due to this controversy. John Lennon beat his wife, Charles Mingus was a fucking asshole, and Michael Jackson raped kids, but their influence can't be ignored. Separate the art from the artist.",
"But they sure said that here apparently",
"Social media rules these peoples lives. It is scary.",
"It’s ok. He’s paying for funerals 🤦🏼♀️\n\nImagine you have to pay for multiple fans funerals?!",
"So brave. Hey everyone we have a badass here.",
"But I want to block them…\n\n/s",
"Bwhahahha okay cracker I bet you smell like spoiled milk",
"I’m just curious",
"Poop",
"Sounds like your talking the Same shit people have said about new music since the dawn of time",
"Literally does that.",
"If you set them not to play, and you never play one of his albums, then you effectively are blocking him.",
"Most people, it’s too rich and salty for me",
"I was watching it, at first it seemed pretty apparent it was a real medical thing. And then once he started playing the next so I assumed it was apart of the show and just a skit. Oh how wrong i was.",
"Him actually stopping and making sure shit was ok would generate so much good PR and revenue. Sad that a dollar blinded what was the right thing to do",
"They should be publicly blocked.",
"How the fuck is this talentless motherfucker so famous that he can have an entire festival? This dude just says stupid shit into a microphone, how the fuck does this goof sell records and tickets?",
"Agree",
"I guess we saw two different videos then.",
"Yeah man that looks like a shitty field trip from middle school",
"He 100% had the option to ensure the emergency vehicle could get through:\n\n[https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qo9uml/when\\_bands\\_stop\\_concerts\\_to\\_save\\_fans/](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qo9uml/when_bands_stop_concerts_to_save_fans/)\n\n&#x200B;\n\nAll he had to do was get the crowd to step back so the ambulance could get through.... probably no one would have died. Instead..... flip the bird at the ambulancen.... and then immediately dropping the next track. \n\nLater in the performance he sees a person passed out and directs security to help.\n\nWatching the apple music video on youtube is fucking chilling man.... you can hear people screaming for help during the pauses between songs. Towards the end the camera pans over the crowd and you can see some dude totally passed out, back bent backwards over the railing. Camera zooms in on a medic doing cpr at one point. How this show wasnt stopped amazes me.",
"Object permanence must not be his strong suit.",
"I think so too and it’s making me so angry",
"I’ve never wanted someone cancelled so badly",
"maybe he saw the lights and thought it was the police?",
"He had a 16 or 17 girl staying at his house alone so he could mentor her and I think M.I.A. has had a lot to say about him as well.",
"Lol how is Apple Music remotely responsible; they just streamer an event",
"Most moshpits in metal shows particularly are pretty awesome, people look out for each other in the crowd",
"Can someone good at photoshop make an ad so we can all upvote this?",
"You're clearly not getting it. They want to BLOCK them\n\n/s",
"Its so funny, that people were genuinely expecting something else. People forget the same sect beat up Rihanna, frequently commit murders of rival artists and then this. How is this any different, lol. The so called rap sect are not artists or frankly even people.",
"Oh shit lmao. That’s never a go in my book and yeah that’s some scum shit. Yeah, I usually feel out shows before I head into the pits. If the dudes are ripping inside, or people in the pit look sus I’ll just stick to the crowd and enjoy my time. I’ll wait for a few songs and if it looks like everybody is respecting one another I’ll hop in and let loose.",
"Should’ve beat her into place and hit her with the ole you deserved it\n\n(Joking fyi)",
"Those are the only two artists you can think of that should be blocked from your list?",
"Two last names.",
"I was at a edm show and a kid flew into the side of my knee and I havnt been able to do shit for 8 months and have one more surgery left. I don't think I can ever go to another concert without watching or feeling scared for my legs again. But, hey, atleast I can walk again and I woke up this morning. I feel so bad for them people and their families.",
"Murderer",
"It was not all Kendrick who got that award he didn’t do it all himself show respect to the huge staff of writers and producers who put it all together. Kendrick isn’t a one man show like many past Pulitzer music winners. \n\n\nPARELES One thing that also strikes me about giving the award to “DAMN.” is that it quietly sets aside two previous Pulitzer givens: that the winning piece was performed by live musicians in real time and that it was written by a solitary composer. But “DAMN.” has multiple producers, composers and performers (even Rihanna and U2 cameos!) layering tracks in studios. Mr. Lamar is the auteur, fully in charge but not the sole creator. It’s another way of making music that deserves respect.\n\nWOOLFE This year’s Pulitzer actually reinforced that old Romantic illusion of the singular composer. It was given to Mr. Lamar alone — not, as in the Grammys, to the album’s songwriting or producing teams, too.\n\nPARELES Maybe they should change the citation to “Kendrick Lamar and staff” — like the reporting prizes. To me, both the Dylan Nobel and the Lamar Pulitzer — which is not the first hip-hop Pulitzer; Lin-Manuel Miranda got that for drama with “Hamilton” — are signals that the old prize-giving institutions are rethinking the ways in which they used to circumscribe the idea of quality. As long as they’re conscientious, that can make the awards only more significant.\n\n\nhttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/arts/music/kendrick-lamar-music-pulitzer-prize-damn.html",
"Yeah I watched the video and am BAFFLED that people are just making shit up in the comments. I dont even KNOW travis scott, dont listen to his music, have no idea what he is about...but he literally said what you quoted and somehow it turned into \"he had every flip off the ambulance because he hates life saving measures!\"",
"Yet, he came out on a video saying he was \"So devastated\".... 🙄",
"Human. Fucking. Garbage.\n\nHope it aches for the rest of his life.",
"Scum bag",
"Crowd safety shouldn’t depend on the organizer not being stupid or a shithead. These things should be requirements for getting the event permit in the first place.",
"What a scumbag lol",
"Story?",
"“Rules are for thee, not for me”",
"Yeah",
"I know plenty about risk. I do it for a living as a safety inspector on job sites. Yes, with everything comes risk but the risk was increased by venue and artists. As fans we expect the risk to be mitigated not increased. He was asked earlier in day by police and fire dept to make changes and humans his crew chose not to make changes. When you walk by a construction site you don't expect to be hit by falling bricks do you? Why? Because of the rules and regulations put in place. Accidents happen but this wasn't an accident. They were warned, and asked to make changes. Explain to me how the fans are to blame if they believed promoters and venue would take those measures? Not to mention this piece of shit flipping the bird and asking crowd to as well to first responders. He is guilty of incitement at least and since it's Texas they might even charge him with reckless endangerment resulting in death.",
"The intent is to virtue signal how much better they are and how much better the singers they like are. \"if I had show id be bestest and stop sing song for peoples ouchies.",
"No. How many more do I need to list to convince you we should have this feature?",
"Humming in auto tune over \"good beats\" will get you far these days sadly",
"Grade A asshole. How these singers become so famous without a shred of talent is beyond me.",
"What the actual fuck was that though. They jumped in like their physics teacher was Scrooge McDuck and they think the crowd is a liquid.",
"Business does business with man who was released from prison after serving what was determined to be his final sentence, more at 11.",
"Okay so his rise is really well known in the hip hop community. That video was from his earliest days when he released his unfinished debut mixtape Owl Pharaoh. He got hype from his expensive sounding production and the stretched out vocal effects, but I never bought it that he produced a lot of his music. It’s said that he just tells other producers “that sounds cool!” and then stamp his name on the song as a producer. He then released Days Before Rodeo where he got a massive fan base because his music was unique back then. Very opulent and expensive sounding, and that’s due to Kanye working with him. Now he’s gotten to be a massive star, his music is def geared towards kids.. it’s actually kinda weird that he’s so big because back in 2014 nobody took him seriously and everyone made fun of him for apparently smelling bad irl",
">you are the very first person i've ever seen complain about this common occurrence in alot of concerts.\n\nYou are aware this happened while an ambulance was still in the crowd and after people had already been crushed to death, correct? I'm pretty sure you could find a couple million complaints about these jumpers.",
"https://chng.it/CSrYDSJvgL\n\nPetition to remove from coachella",
"wait what? fortnight does concert streaming now? like do they just take their characters to a stage area? like what? doesn't sound like a terrible idea tbh for most video games with online communities to do that tbh. add an option for safe mode to watch the concert or and kill mode where yall can kill each other and fuck around while it's going on with the concert going. ironic given everthing but sounds smart.",
"What history?",
"Who gives a shit. People are dead and its tragic. No one cares about his unrelated romantic relationship.",
"It will absolutely not suffer. I'm not a fan, but, that's how celebrity works. People forgive and explain away problems as long as they like and idolize you and the bad things you did weren't to them. Sure, maybe some of the friends and family of the injured won't be back but that's a drop in the bucket.",
"There's \"Share Artist\" and \"Create Station\"\n\nOn songs or albums, there's \"Suggest Less Like This\"",
"Music?",
"Travis Scott was banging an underage girl and waited till she was legal to announce it.. He's always been a chomo scum bag.",
"Crucify this prick",
"LOL",
"All music is a bunch of noise and the Grand Canyon is just a hole in the ground. It’s easy to reduce things to nothing.",
"i know the bible says judge not lest ye be judged, but this fella seems like a real jerk",
"So he thought he saw an ambulance and his response was to flip it off is what you are saying.",
"That was a freaky episode of Black Mirror.",
"Dude is so young, and so dumb. The thought of this becoming your identity as an artist is so fucked up.",
"2 fans did die at a GnR concert, so it makes sense Axl might be more careful after that. \n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2n8tj8/til_that_during_a_guns_n_roses_concert_in_england/?st=KVRLB51H&sh=7a051962",
"I had to look up who this guy was.....",
"You joke, but…\n\nhttps://youtu.be/9MFu_CfEKq8",
"Am EMT… I can’t imagine pulling up to the scene only to have the entire audience flip you off as you rush to start triaging everybody. Terrible.",
"This 100%. There are many levels of people who had professional responsibility to stop the show. Travis Scott is one of them. But we should recognize that a) he is not the only one, and b) the government’s role should be to only grant permission for an event like this when it knows systems are in place to ensure that the safety of the entire crowd does not hinge on the performer not being an asshole.",
"Did he look around at a bunch of other shit on the stage like, idk, his team? Did he wait a little before instructing the crowd to do anything? \n\nDo you understand what a monitor is? What teams are around him?",
"This needs to be way higher up",
"Yes cause industry popularized media doesn't have bots keeping their streaming numbers up to maintain top spots. \n\nHe is \"popular\" the same way the Kardashians are popular. Music production industry wants him to be. \n\nHe is just the next Bieber. Give it a few years and they will throw him away for the next fad.",
"Cancel Travis. Guy is a grown ass man Child with worst of an ego than Kanye.",
"The guy who is filming reacted and started moving out like 5 seconds before everyone else. He films the flames starting to crawl across the ceiling and heads for the door. He makes it through and almost by the time he turns around the jam/pile of bodies is already blocking the exit. So a bunch of people you see in the beginning of the video are most likely trapped inside. Then you hear blood curdling screams of people burning to death. Firefighters show up and try to spray the people half jammed in the door to cool them off, but it's mostly too late. It all happens so fast it truly made me feel like I got punched in the gut.",
"SOLVED",
"Hold up I posted the wrong link above. [Here’s the cypher I’m talking about](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x164hjp). Holy fuck man it’s so bad lol",
"Y’all really need to calm down blaming a hood rat artist.. it’s really the production company, Aka live nation responsible, they handle logistics, they handle permits, ticket sales , security contracts.. Statement of work.\nAn artist is just the draw, sure he is probably a prick and deserves the negative attention.. but the responsibility lies with the folks that purchase the barricades, the port potties , the water stations.",
"Yup because there's a ton of little shit that happens that never gets reported. Just down to simple shit like using actual crowd barricades instead of cheaper fencing that gets put out. The staff are not trained for emergencies and do not know what to look out for. Understaffed security IF they actually hire real guys instead of scrubs wearing a security jacket. These are real life examples I see regularly.\n\nThis is the shit that happens in the US that doesn't happen overseas. Australia is a great example of a country that doesn't fuck around after learning from BFD01\n\nYou can link whatever you want dude, yes I'm holding my opinion. All you're showing us what happens when shit hits the fan. What I'm talking about is what's on a day to day basis. What the norm is. All the corners that get cut regularly. \n\nhttps://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053548075/live-nation-a-company-behind-astroworld-has-a-long-history-of-safety-violations\n\nI'll actually double down and say its the same story with covid protocols. But an entirely different can of worms.",
"I read the title and was like, “no way”… No, he stops the concert to make everyone look at the ambulance, then proceeds to tell everyone to give them (not one, but) TWO birds and then drops the beat 😂😵",
"Boy is a fucking clown.",
"You can also tell Siri that you don't like Travis Scott.",
"Usually not good? I'm pretty sure it's never good to jump feet first into a dense crowd.",
"I'd play a news report with the extremely graphic description of the attack itself and the resulting injuries.",
"https://i.imgur.com/x36UtJr.png",
"So you are saying he definitely knew about the ambulance and told the crowd to flip it off?",
"> Every large concert should be mandated to have a safety official who is set up to cut the stage mics and put themselves up on the PA at any moment.\n\nThat could cause the crowd to go out of control, and make the situation even worse. Having the performer stop and explain to the audience, who are focused on the performer is better.",
"Just trample this guy and let’s be done with it.",
"With only \"minor\" injuries and a broken spirit.",
"Let's stick with your first solution that doesn't work. Help me understand.",
"I was there. He actually said to the crowd to put your middle finger up in the air if you are good. Weird way to check if people are okay. I don't think he was flipping the ambulance off.",
"Not even close",
"No we listen to modern music. Just good modern music. \n\nThe trap genre is garbage and should die like disco.",
"Honestly, it would be there fault for selling so many tickets, and organizing everything. Sure he's an idiot for what he did but they gave a baby a lit Zippo and put him in a crib full of kerosene.",
"Nope! You’re saying he told the crowd to flip the ambulance off though which is funny because it’s not in the video.",
"Hopefully McDonalds will be all he can afford when the dust settles on all this. But I doubt we can be that lucky.",
"Dude is a pos.",
"This is the big thing, even if you are able to push back it's totally exhausting",
"Wow honestly this paints him looking even worse than I imagined. What absolute scum",
"And people were defending him saying his apology was sincere",
"Imagine if he had stopped the concert to let everything calm down. He would be seen as a hero and an inspirational person.",
"You know CNN has this idiot as “heroic” wtf is that about.",
"Got examples of this hypothetical crowd freakout? I’ve been at my share of concerts where there was a technical glitch and the PA cut out and the typical reaction was grumbling, not chaos",
"He enjoys the fact that his fans are willing to literally die for him.",
"Nothing he did during that concert was done \"to keep the crowd calm\". Literally *nothing*. You don't go into higher energy songs or parts of songs to keep them calm, you don't directly stare at a lifeless body being body surfed across your crowd and sing autotune to keep them calm, nothing he did was for that goal. There have been *numerous* other artists who have easily stopped their music and told their crowd calm down and have *nobody* get injured during events of crowd crushing. Stopping the concert would have been the only way to make sure the crowd was calm and n there were less injuries and deaths, and he refused to do that.",
"What do you mean how would they compare, like quality wise, popularity wise complexity wise",
"Seems like a certain part of his fans are into this type of brutality",
"Yeah idk how anyone ever saw anything positive in this guy. His music just him doing drugs like most shitty rap now a days",
"Yeah, he was super confused as to why the dying fans weren't cheering for him",
"This whole \"this would never happen at my genre's concert\" thing needs to stop. Stopping the show for ambulances and helping people up is like standard operating procedure at any show, and that's why this specific show was such a tragic catastrophe: because the people with the power to do it safely threw caution to the wind like John Hammond. Moshpit deaths happen at all concert types, but this was an egregious shitshow on behalf of the people putting on the show, lets not start blaming the fans for not having a strong enough \"brotherhood\".",
"It's not impossible to get people up but it is extremely difficult. It basically requires communication and cooperation from everyone around the person who fell. You have to get like several people to push in one direction together at the same time to create just enough space (a few inches basically) that you can pull someone up who fell.\n\nOf course, it's not a guarantee it will work, and it's not a guarantee the person will even be in a state where they can continue to stand. Pushing back might also cause someone else to fall.\n\nIt's a terrible situation all around. The best way out is to get the artist to temporarily stop things and tell people to move back (or stop moving), but that only works if they're not a massive piece of shit.",
"Did you see his super bowl performance? Holy fuck was it bad. Literally anyone coulda been up there yelling the same thing and it would have changed nothing.",
"I had no information on the event besides the tragedies that occurred but my initial response knew that Travis had been negligent to his fans safety. A true artist protects their audience.",
"He sounds like he is trying to make it right, but man did not know how to react in the moment",
"He literally said there's an ambulance, then told the crowd to put their middle fingers up. It's common sense what that means.",
"Bretagne",
"I’m really surprised that apple is keeping their logo on this. After he flips off the ambulance he still was hyping up the crowd. He was leading a chant “let’s fuck things up”. My guess is that he set up the Apple contract separately and for some reason he thought he’d be in breach if he paused the live show. Of course pausing the show made way more sense to apple. Way more sense than this. The problem is these influencers think they can handle everything themselves. It leads to outcomes like this and Fyre festival.",
"Peak incel comment",
"what a piece of fecal matter, flipping off the EMT’s trying to resuscitate the 8 people killed by his awful concert planning.",
"I'm just expressing my art side. You've never heard of a poem, snowflake?",
"Yes it does.",
"You cut the mic of the main act at a festival this big without being ordered to, you’re never working again in that state or around any of that music scene. You basically end your career right there. \n\nIt was a security issue and should have been handled like fire hazards are. Nothing to do with the engineer, who likely couldn’t have seen much anyway (FOH is not usually by the stage). Also the rapper is a prick and could have stopped the situation immediately but instead chose to make it worse several times.",
"Yeah generally I would say the venue carries the responsibility for making the place safe for crowds. If it wasn't for the many clips shown where Travis Scott outright encourages dangerous behavior at the concert I wouldn't hold him responsible.",
"Yup, this is just a cost of doing business.",
"Cancel all the kardashians too please",
"Duuuude yes some of the most funs I went to thru high school were insomniac events!",
"If your going to encourage your audience to rage/riot/mosh/whatever. Fair. Just have a fucking plan on what to do when it goes to shit, the right amount of security for the amount of patrons attending, enough medics, and ffs enough water. Especially if it’s your own festival.\n\nIf you don’t then it’s on you. Blood is on your hands. \n\nMy blind cat could tell something was wrong and would have stopped the show",
"I see a Netflix Fyre festival type documentary coming out about this one day unfortunately",
"That video shows a guy who cant even read. So uneducated in every way. Confused by an ambulance.",
"Pretty wholesome experiences.\n\nI had a friend lose his phone at a show, it got passed up to the front/band. They asked what image was used in the lock screen background as a few shitbags tried to claim it as their own. My mate got his phone back and had a selfie with them on stage. \n\nAt the end of the day these artists are there to perform for their fans, they wouldn't be up there without the crowd's support.",
"If you think Kim Kardashian wasn’t as much involved with the “Leak” of her sex tape then you are pretty daft, claiming it was solely leaked by her mother or she was exploited by her mother is a reach, K.K was already in the “in crowd” of HollyWood thanks to her famous father and the infamous OJ case \n\nKim was Paris Hiltons personal assistant, if you recall Paris Hilton also had a leaked sex tape which only pushed her even more into the spotlight … DING DING Kim Kardashian gets a bright idea and boom she leaks a sex tape and all of the tabloids have her name on their lips \n\nShe was always going to be famous whether people liked it or not, she is a Kardashian and she would have used her name one way or another to become even more famous hence the clothing brands, makeup etc that all bare the family name \n\nCaitlyn Jenner on the other hand is different story, HollyWood seems to have a lot of people who kill people in car accidents and because they are rich they pay the family and it goes hush hush, the reports show she wasn’t intoxicated during the accidents but her actions are still not excusable due to her causing a fatality, did she meant the cause the accident and kill a women? Probably not, she probably showed remorse for what she did and because she had the money she settled out of court as she was never charged with anything \n\nGo back 5-7 years ago and watch an episode of the show, Kylie was given a chance just like her sister Kendall and she openly chose to enter the spotlight outside of the reality TV show while her sister Kendall actually pursued her “career” in modelling and lived a pretty tame a laidback life for some related to that family, Kylie basically did was Kim did, she got pregnant by a rapper and leeched of of them to stay relevant\n\nKim K is as much responsible for her sex tape leak than anyone, Kylie Jenner is as product of her environment mixed with generational repetition, she chose the lifestyle she lives and the people she associates with, she could have easily show respect to the dead at the concert but she did exactly what her baby daddy did and ignored it \n\nCaitlyn got away with it after paying upwards of $1M in reparations outside of court, you make it seem like she killed someone and got away with it because she’s famous, she was found not guilty of charges by investigators and prosecutors much in the same way an everyday person could be found not guilty of vehicular manslaughter after causing an accident, your argument of “her parents killed a lady and got away with it” isn’t valid because she didn’t get away with anything if she paid out settlements and the accident is well known \n\nI’m not defending the family at all but Kim DEFS leaked her sex tape, the mother is a money hungry demon but the entire family is, Anything to get that money",
"Who are all these people who still respect him??",
"I would imagine the support staff would be more in tune with that sort of thing, they have probably been to or performed at enough gigs to know what's going on in a crowd. They also have a higher vantage point and can see/get told when shit is going wrong in a crowd.",
"To be fair, it’s pretty ridiculous to act like this is all Travis Scott’s fault. This dude is not planning the safety procedures of his concerts… Someone or many should go to jail but it’s not like you can pin all this on him.",
"Holy shit shut the fuckkk up",
"> \"i wanna get shoved around\". oh \"but not like that, that's too much\".\n\nJust because I want some mayo on my sandwich doesn't mean I want to eat a jar of mayo with a spoon.",
"I don't want to defend this, but there's one, very popular, line is showbiz...\n\nYeah, he should have stopped the show. But crowd control is not his job. I don't listen to him, but this is not his fault.",
"scene is straight out of a horror movie.",
"Except it’s his festival and he was in charge for the right amount and competent security, medics, etc \n\nThe guy cheaped out and this is the consequence",
"Are you using \"urban\" as a euphemism for \"mostly black\"?",
"I answered your question, dumbass.",
"dark energy around that man",
"And to think he was a huge part of Fortnite for awhile.",
"Best I can do is an upvote I feel icky about giving.",
"Can confirm. Passed out at a metal core concert. Didn’t even make it halfway to the ground before I was lifted up and out of the pit. Glasses got smashed to bits tho. Worth it.",
"Those buttons do not give me that option.",
"He will take a small hit then six month from now will be more popular than ever. Everyone will be saying Travis scoot this or that and it will drive sales up.",
"What’s the name of that comedian? Can’t remember it for the life of me",
"I've been at big shows where the performers have stopped because 1 person went down or needed help... I can't imagine the piece of shit you have to be to not stop after dozens went down and limp bodies are being crowd surfed out *and* there's fucking ambulances trying to get in.",
"when the show must go on goes wrong.",
"> police accident\n\nlmao are you fucking kidding me dude\n\nthat cop is literally in prison right now on a 22 year sentence. for murder. \"\"\"accident\"\"\" gtfo",
"The Boondocks needs to come back.",
"He maybe was too inebriated to think ambulance and thought police. That’s all I got",
"His gf is an occultist and this was a ritual sacrifice but ppl still cant see reality.",
"Keep trolling. Get a life.",
"THAT bish is going DOOOOOOWN 😂😂",
"I think he wanted a really memorable rager, and didn’t think of the consequences seriously. His ego overtook logic. He has been known to encourage this.",
"IDK, evolutionary psychology, especially based around gender, tend to be bunk. Like it’s most famous claim is men work because they used to hunt and women clean and cook because they used to stay behind, but we now know that both men and women did these things equally and the gender split occurred later.\n\nThe whole premise is flawed too. Early humans didn’t kill each other all the time, Inter group conflict was taboo in the same way wolf packs don’t rip each other apart, and separate groups would only come across each other extremely rarely.",
"33 and thought the same thing at first. It’s all good my man.",
"I really hope this guy's career crashes and burns.\n\nIt might actually survive, based on the worrying number of fans who are still defending his actions online. But he doesn't deserve to just move on from this and pretend like he has compassion for the victims that day. So many videos have come out showing the multiple times *he* could've ended this before more damage was done (even *before the concert itself*, by maybe *not* encouraging fans to illegally overcrowd the event), but he clearly didn't give a fuck.\n\nI swear he has a god complex...",
"Done!",
"Fuck Travis dirtbag and these organizers. They should be charged for manslaughter. He sees an ambulance and tells everyone to flip them flip it\nOff. I’m for hitting their wallets too but they need to go to Jail too.",
"Some of it is ok imho. I do agree with the trap culture statement however. At least the EDM trap crowd tends to be more decent from what I’ve seen.",
"You kidding?",
"he’s on everything. That’s how dumb he is",
"I interpret it as flipping off god. This makes the most sense to me.",
"So I originally heard something about someone injecting people with drugs? And that’s how the crowd panicked rushing towards the front cramming people. I don’t see anything about it anymore, not sure what’s going on.",
"Fuck that cunt, all I gotta say.",
"There's a big trend now of people starting comments with \"Imagine...\" \n\nIt just always reminds me of the song Imagine by John Lennon",
"Go on…",
"I'm throwing out my my fucking Travis shirt. We need the rap scene full of people like lil Nas x",
"Nouns gonna verb.",
"I've been to his show and that's absolutely not true. The yelling is part of the show for sure but there's more to it than that. He did a lot of harmonizing in his life performance versus the studio recording which took me by surprise. That said, he's a whole sociopath for this behavior.",
"All good, man.",
"Have you ever had someone jump from 10 feet onto your head when you can’t move?",
"Have there been actual cases of someone being cancelled like that. All the cases people bring up are mild controversies that don’t even affect the person being “cancelled”.",
"Ive been in some squeezes before where I was really firmly smooshing the person behind me who was pushing, but it never became a crowd asphyxia moment\n\nfrom what Ive seen myself, it was always 16-19 year old kids who tried to “train-squeeze” their group forward by physically pulling peoples shoulders back and force their way further forward, it is real and has nearly caused fights due to how forceful and disrespectful it can get. Now id imagine the majority of travis scott fans at astroworld were in this age category, so I have 0 doubt that this shit happened on a massive scale as travis took the stage",
"It really depends on the music genre and crowd in general. I'm nearly 40 and just a few weeks ago had a GREAT time seeing a punk band called Idles in a medium-sized club. Pretty much the whole place was a mosh pit, but everyone was respectful of others and if somebody got knocked down there were 3 or 4 larger people immediately there to either block others from stepping on them or to pick them up and get them out of the area safely. Occasionally you get the guys who just want to swing their limbs around and see what they can hit, but they generally get removed by the guys who just want to have some fun and bump into each other. \n\nSeen a couple threads on here about \"metal\" bands, Disturbed in particular, where the mosh pits get extremely violent and I just don't get it. But hey, let the dumb angsty fucks fight amongst themselves. I just wanna jump up and down and feel alive by bumping into someone. If I wanted to pick a fight I could do that in the parking lot...\n\nBut this was not a mosh pit... This was poor crowd control and probably overselling the venue. It doesn't matter how big or strong you are, if there are 1000 people jammed up behind you and the ones in the back decide they're moving forward, you don't get a say in the matter.",
"It's a karma goldrush. Quick, see if you can dredge up a grainy youtube video from 2007 of some indie rock band telling the crowd to move around to relieve pressure and reap the reddit points and awards.",
"Far more rap songs condemn violence and drug abuse that avocate it. Kendrick Lamar, juice wrld, Kanye, polo G and j Cole. Are chart topping artist who are very anti violence and drug abuse. Then there are some of the biggest names in the rap scene. Drake, Tyler and post malone who talk about a lot of similar topics to pop and rock music. \nSure there is plenty of songs and artist that talk about violence and drug abuse but these artist are often just as likely to condemn it than advocate it. \nMusic is a reflection of life. And life can be violent especially for people in low income areas.",
"From the police report \"A verbal argument ensued and Brown pulled a vehicle over in an unknown street. Reach over Robyn F with his right hand and open the car door and attempted to force her out. Brown was unable to force Robyn F out of the vehicle because she was wearing a seat belt. When he could not force her to exit he took his right hand and shoved her head against the passenger window of the vehicle causing an approx 1 inch raised circular contusion.\n\n\"Robyn F turned to face Brown and punched her in the left eye with right hand. He then drove away in the vehicle and continued to punch her in the face with his right hand while steering the vehicle with his left hand. The assault caused Robyn F Osmouth to fill with blood and blood to splatter all over her clothing and the interior of the vehicle. Brown looked at Robyn F and stated \"I am going to beat the s-t out of you when we get home! You wait and see!? \"Robyn F picked her cellular phone and called her personal assistant Jennifer Rosales. Rosales did not answer the telephone but while her um greeting was playing Robyn F pretended to talk to her and stated \"I am on my way home. Make sure the cops are there when I get there? (this statement was made while greeting was playing and was not captured) after Robyn f faked the call, Brown and looked at her and stated, You just did the stupidest thing ever! Now I really am going to kill you.\n\n\"Brown resumed punching Robyn F and she interlocked her fingers behind her head and brought her elbows forward to protect her face. She then bent over at the waist placing her elbows and face near her lap and in attempt to protect her face and head from the barrage of punches being levied by Brown. Brown continued to punch Robyn F on her left arm and hands, causing her to suffer a contusion on her left triceps that was approx 2 inches in diameter and numerous contusions on her left hand. Robyn f attempted to send another text message to other personal assistant Melissa Ford.\n\nBrown snatched the cellular telephone out of her hand and threw it out of the window to an unknown street. Brown continued driving and Robyn F observed his cellular phone in his lap. She picked up the cellular phone with her left hand, and before she could make a call, he placed her in a head lock with right hand and continued to drive the vehicle with his left hand.\n\n\"Brown held Robyn F close to him and bit her on her left hear. She was able to feel the vehicle swerving from right to left as Brown sped away. He stopped the vehicle in front of [address] and Robyn F turned off the car removed the key from ignition and sat on it. Brown did not know what she did with the key and began punching her in the face and arms. Brown began applying pressure to Robyn F left and right carotid arteries causing her to be unable to breath. She began to lose consciousness. She reached up with her left hand and began to attempting to gauge his eyes in attempt to flee herself. Brown bit her left ring and middle fingers and released her. While brown continued to punch her she turned around a place her back to against the passenger door. She brought her knees to her chest and placed her against Brown,s body and began pushing him away.\n\n\"Brown continued to punch her on legs and feet causing several contusions. Robyn F began screaming for help. And Brown exited the vehicle and walked away. A resident in the neighbor heard Robyn E,s plea for help and called 911, causing a police response. An investigation was conducted and Robyn F was issued a domestic violence protective order (EPO).",
"Until you have to get on the subway to go home",
"You must really be bothered by that one additional apostrophe, Travis.",
"Never heard of this travis scott guy before this.... dude his music is legit terrible. Its just noise and him yellling \"yeaaa wut wut wut\" with gun shot samples mixed in...\n\nKids these days are into some crap music.",
"Spinning? I was thinking all 3 grinding to a halt.",
"It's a [virtual concert](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYeFAlVC8qU). they've done it in-game a few times with [Marshmello](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbsZKdiyzj4), Travis, and [Ariana Grande](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJMOfAkrAPo). They have less-interactive concerts in the party royale hub which is just a place to muck it up with people. \n\nThe game shuts down all other modes as not to put strains on the servers and only have one-mode open at the time which is specifically for the concert. You can't attack/kill anyone in this mode until after the concert is over usually. \n\nThe Travis event according to epic had the most amount of unique players subbing to the game in order to \"attend\" the concert. Like [27 million across all 5 shows.](https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1254817584676929537)\n\nEach artist gets their own little icon-series skin that is available in the item shop (the Travis set has never returned)",
"He and the people who put on that event will probably never make enough money to pay for all the lawsuits that are coming their way.",
"He also encourages people to storm the stage, break down barriers, and overload the concert population by jumping fences…he actively encourages people to push closer, and he had people in his possy jump onto the crowd in boots. You’re lying to yourself if you think he isn’t partially responsible, he literally tries to foster violence and discord at his shows",
"I'd venture a guess that the per Capita population of assholes is far higher in an MMA gym than your average punk show, lol",
"His music sounds like something a stupid person would create, theres no art in it, its just attitude a noise.",
"The best part about his \"statement\" today is that he isn't performing in Vegas because he is too \"distraught\" to go on stage. I love how his lawyers are already telling him what to say to the public. He doesn't give a flying fuck that any of his fans died, he is just trying to save face. His past actions really show his true character.",
"Demonic",
"Christ. Every single person who just mindlessly does what this shitbag says is a shame to our race.",
"Somehow, bad ideas returned",
"The Adam and Eve bitten Apple logo?",
"man imagine your brain deprived of oxygen for several minutes then dropped 1.5meters onto steel\n\nlike she might be better off not coming back to conciousness you know?",
"This is the moment when he could have made a difference and saved some lives. You can almost see the wheels turning in his head and then he decides… let’s put up our middle fingers? What a douche.",
"He should run for Biden’s office",
"Fuck man this is even more terrifying than I could have imagined.\n\nI go to edm concerts a lot, we are in big crowds often with a lot of energy and sometimes buckwild shit.\n\nI have never thought about what could happen if enough people decide to not care about the people around them and fucking go crazy.\n\nSeeing this will have me towards the back a lot more than before. You just never know and I could see myself in this crowd. I like Travis Scott and the lineup was amazing, if I lived near here I easily could have been in this.\n\nFor some reason I imagined this ordeal being faster, but it's so slow and unnerving. You're slowly getting swallowed into a twist of people, limbs everywhere, you can't get out and fall. But the wave of people keeps coming, somebody falls next to you, then someone on top of you and it keeps going. The next person behind you is losing their grip, and then you can't see anymore. You just see people, desperate to get out, but nobody can make it stop. The music plays on...",
"You’ve been to some fucked up shows then. That’s not the norm.",
"Beethoven’s like “I been out here sayin’!”",
"Maybe he didn’t want any else to take attention away from him.",
"definitely more than 50k if you count the hundreds who rushed the gate",
"People yelling help and the music is still going… that’s insane… fucking nightmare fuel",
"It makes perfect sense if you realize their motivation was to hurt people.",
"Is it possible to cancel this guy",
"Ive been in some squeezes before where I was really firmly smooshing the person behind me who was pushing, but it never became a crowd asphyxia moment\n\nfrom what Ive seen myself, it was always 16-19 year old kids who tried to “train-squeeze” their group forward by physically pulling peoples shoulders back and force their way further forward, it is real and has nearly caused fights due to how forceful and disrespectful it can get. Now id imagine the majority of travis scott fans at astroworld were in this age category, so I have 0 doubt that this shit happened on a massive scale as travis took the stage",
"Imagine all the people who said metal is the devils music and skip knot is satanic. Nothing but reports of a demonic experience from this event.",
"So you think its \"virtue signaling\" to stop your concert because people are literally DYING because they're being squished? Should people just ignore it and keep the music going?\n\nYou sound like an absolutely disgusting human being. I bet you think Travis Scott has done nothing wrong.",
"Aww thanks for the kind words, love ❤",
"It’s *Britney bitch",
"Nah, sounds pretty epitimously American to me",
"When people see a woman beating a man in public they laugh about it. When people see a man beating a woman in public they intervene.",
"And like a bunch of sheep they listen lol",
"McDonald's:\" We're so woke and in touch with the youth of the world and TOTALLY not solely concerned with our trillion dollar bottom line, we're not even gonna bother to do 2 mins of research and immediately find out this absolute piece of shit is a homophobic narcissistic ego maniacal scumbag piece of SHIT\"",
"I'm pretty sure those things happened. From what I can tell the event got overcrowded and this was combined with a bad layout and extremely rowdy crowd. If you take away anyone of those 3 elements and this whole mess might have been avoided. Travis Scott encouraged both people to break into the event and to be extra wild. He also was probably heavily involved in the layout.\n\nI still highly doubt Travis Scott knew what was going on during his performance. We know LiveNation knew and let it continue for almost 49 minutes after agreeing to stop it. Many other people could have stopped the show who had a better idea of what was going on then the performer. Not stopping the show in a timely manner is on them. Look at the video where 2 people climb up and tell a cameraman what's going on and he didn't even attempt to get help. \n\nDespite what TikTok says I bet there actually enough well trained people to to handle the amount of people that were supposed to be there. The excess crowd contributed to make the whole problem getting worse exponentially. If an extra 10,000+ people weren't in that crowd there would've been enough support and everyone does the job they're supposed to do and hopefully there are no serious injuries or deaths. That is where the planning stopped.",
"Fuck this guy.",
"Not too defend them, but I'm guessing in their myopic view they saw flashing lights and thought \"cops/security? Fuck them!\" Not realizing it's an ambulance.",
"this mf going to jail haha",
"Yup I agree w all of that. The kids don’t realize how dangerous it is and just think it’s fun to push aggressively. They think it’s a mosh pit, not a meat compactor. But they’re on the outside where they can still walk away.\n\nI wasn’t asphyxiating but I was concerned for my safety. If it had kept going there was a good chance of trampling somebody even if it wasn’t me. Luckily got my hands up over my head so I wasn’t completely helpless like if they were pinned by my sides. That’s how people can die skiing as well — ski into a tree and snow falls down around you, pinning your arms. If your hands are up, you have better odds of digging out or being seen.",
"If it hurt them that bad, they'd just rebrand.",
"In my experience people are usually aware of the code of the moshpit in rap shows. Don't think the way people acted in the show was the main problem here, main problem was there were too many people and that is on the organizer. In the video above they most likely cannot pick people up because they are struggling to survive themselves and people pushing from rows away are not aware of the situation.",
"Except for how he had to stop 4 times, saw multiple ambulances and watched a dead body being carried away right in front of him\n\nOh b-but poor wittle travis didn't know",
"What the fuck is wrong with the world. People love this shit, will still listen to his music and support other assholes exactly like him. The part of the audience they showed looked 100% onboard with going ahead despite being fully aware that there was *at least* a medical emergency going on right behind them. Travis Scott is a dogshit human, it kinda seems like most people are these days.",
"Can i do this to U2",
"“Hurr durr black person gangsta amirite”",
"Greed.",
"Hey you’re ignorant and entitled to whatever you want to believe. Hate from Aussie twats is commonplace on here. Critical thinking for you guys is like oil and water.",
". Boycott his shows.",
"No, I'm not an artist so I have no songs to block.",
"Define Thug Music 🕵",
"Yeah that's what I thought at first, thinking people are taking the middle finger thing too literally, but then the music started... Fuck dude what the hell were you thinking. Pretty fucked up at this point.",
"no clue how relevant mc hammer had been since i was born later but fwiw travis has been relevant since like 2014 and consistently putting out music that’s topped charts.",
"Not making light of this tragedy but you can literally see the floor right below him he's right on the ground",
"His music is fucking terrible too.",
"\"man we are working with the HPD to find families of people\" \n\nJesus this could be the single worst reading of a room in history.",
"Whoever was supposed to perform didn’t show up. I forget who and why but DM did a trance show as an extra set, and basically said “I’m just here for the paycheck” while the crowd went wild.",
"It has nothing to do with the ambulance… He does that during many song intros, part of his show. I never knew Reddit had such a “Karen in denial community”. So much white. All that hatred for black peoples held in and now the opportunity has arisen. ATTACK!",
"Would like to see this guy step into a boxing ring with either Jake/Logan Paul humble him.",
"I mean it really just looks like he sees it, waits a little bit, then gets on with his stage patter.",
"Ok Karen.",
"> “causing” the crush are the ones all the way at the back, who have space, and who are completely oblivious that their movements are killing people half a football field away\n\nYou nailed it. The people at the back might just barely be inching forward but the force gets magnified many times over by the time it gets to the front of the giant crowd.",
"and people think it’s the Illuminati lmao. some of those comments read like The Shade Room",
"And that is literally the only song of hers I know.",
"And now I'll make the paramedic's job harder by commanding the entire crowd to jump up and down. And blasting the music so loud that they'll have a hard time communicating to each other while trying to save the patient.",
"That should be felony assault. This is bullshit.",
"Aw man, dang. Another zinger from a clown.",
"He's famuos for being associated with the Jenners/Kardashians what would you expect? Loud-mouthed, self-absorbed apathetic fool.",
"Trap's Altamont moment.",
"Ok boomer",
"Delusional Karen spotted. All these white redditors are pulling out the noose.",
"Disgusting behavior he should have stopped or at least his advisors should have pulled the music what an absolute idiot so no doubt there will be an apology post with an excuse 🤔",
"Okay so 4x more.",
"Yeah, if he wasn't fucked up on pills and a fucking moron to boot.",
"What the actual fuck?",
"So rock and roll, and Metal basically?",
"Actually this is correct and I do hope it's something that is implemented immediately. \n\nIt should never be up to the artist to make the final decision if it's a safety issue. They are not impartial decision makers and neither is their team. \n\nSomebody else has to have control of any safety issue completely and that someone should understand what the emergency will look like early and respond before it gets to this point.",
"Dude, this is America. Corporate companies decide who become famous or not. If you don’t get exposure, you’re toasted.",
"This dickhead should be banned for life.",
"Britannica Spears.",
"That's going to help the lawsuits",
"Absolute POS",
"Well, usually people realize it’s not working, or they get tired. But when the performer encourages that kind of behavior, similarly to the president encouraging violence, then people start to act out.",
"What a cringe comment lmao",
"Lol i meant the stupid U2 songs that we are forced to have in our iphones.",
"The audio team does not make the call. They’re hired put by someone else. They would have to be told to cut the sound. They likely couldn’t tell anything was that out the ordinary for a show like that. Being at Front of House all you are looking at is the stage not the crowd around. You can’t blame the audio team just like the camera guy. He had no power and likely didn’t even know what was happening",
"I heard if you block U2 on Apple Music you somehow end up with more U2 downloaded on your phone",
"I agree. His brain was starting to engage but then he said fuckit and started the chaos back.",
"You must have had a fake ID lol",
"Yeah but look, he's an artist. Get those Amblance and Fire Nerdepartment outta here.",
"Why do I keep seeing people writing BRITTANY?? It’s driving me freaking crazy!",
"Wait its just money over human lives?\n\nAlways has been.",
"Dude is garbage, music too. Just more proof that we will make the worst people into rich celebrity. Sucks.",
"One trick pony. Burn in hell prick.",
"Oh god you’re one of those",
"Me too. I always find myself doing this now in venues I've never been to before solely because of that video.",
"From what I can find of celebrities that have been \"canceled\" only Johnny Depp was a mistake. To be fair, at the time he was convicted as the abuser until evidence came out and a re-trial concluded that he was the victim. It is sad what happened to his career, but it wasn't cancel cultures fault. People were acting with the information they had. What is sad is that Amber wasn't canceled and kicked from the cast of Aquaman 2 while Depp was cut from Fantastic Beasts 2.\n\nMost people who are against \"canceled culture\" is because they have worldviews that are proven to be discriminatory and don't want to be shamed for having them.",
"Nike kicking themselves as well. This guy will go away for a year, come back on a reinvention tour or some shit though.",
"I'm fairly sure they were insomniac events. Syke events too I think was another one.",
"Live Nation really holds no fault here. The fault really lies with Travis.",
"He could probably just call Ted Cruz and wave some money in front of him. Though Cruz is currently preoccupied fighting with Big Bird.",
"Live Nation has insurance. They aren't going to jack up prices to cover their losses on this which won't be that high anyway for them.",
"You know I’m 39 and have been to many concerts in my life. But too see this was disgusting.",
"Sure him him him. What about the concert promoters, sound booth folk etc etc. why isn’t there a system in place to shut it down when there’s a full on medical emergency?",
"[Anthony Jeselnik](https://youtu.be/PTmCxbcRXs4)",
"There were definitely some OG’s who got sucked into the human pit pile and like stepped on 30 times and slithered under 45 pairs of legs and out to freedom\n\nrespect to these boys who saw the pavement and made it out alive",
"~Sunday bloody sunday~",
"It's the three dots menu just to the right of the follow button when you first pull up the artist's page.",
"According to others comments I saw, the producers were insisting that the show had to keep going…",
"Fwiw: petition to get him removed from Coachella:\n\nhttps://www.change.org/p/aeg-remove-travis-scott-as-a-goldenvoice-performer",
"Same same. And I still don’t really get who he is or why so many were there supporting the shitty behavior that led to multiple people losing their lives. Really says a lot.",
"I hate the gunshot samples being played at the end… I was at a concert and freaked out when I heard that one time.",
"Oh my this boy is retarded… these lawsuits are gonna be WAY past what his insurance will cover. What an idiot.",
"Either you’re a liar or you caught that boot real good to the face.",
"Is this assault??",
"You must have the reading comprehension of a kindergartener then. Context clues mate. First thing they teach after how to read letters.",
"I’ve “deleted” that album like three times now. Keeps coming back.",
"Metal and Rock are way more violent and thuggish than rap...",
"I’ve told Siri like 12 times to not play Luke Bryan. It still works it’s way in.",
"I’ll do you one better. Burger King had a Nelly meal, who, like, what the fuck, of all people? But they used his legal name, so it was a double what the fuck. They made me remember and learn more about Nelly.",
"Whoosh",
"Pos",
"She wants to be Rhianna. And hates her for it.",
"What drugs have you done that leads to the specific behaviors in this video?",
"Found the person that doesn't follow wallstreetbets.\n\nConsumers don't decide what businesses are successful. Corruption decides what is successful. Look up the history of Coca Cola for instance. They were heavily protected by the American government.",
"Yeah I’m one of those who enjoy people can actually sing otherwise why see them live",
"Didn't Playstation start some sort of collaboration with Travis Scott a few months ago? That's just money down the drain now.",
"I appreciate you taking the opportunity when it presented itself",
"I was at a Marilyn Manson concert in early 2000s in the KC area. As much as I don’t agree with his choices now, he stopped the show 3 times within the first 2 songs to stop the crowd from crushing and continuing to break down the front barrier. After those songs they canceled the show since the crowd didn’t calm down. I only lost a shoe thank goodness. This was so beyond irresponsible by the artist and show producers. They should all pay with their money and time. No excuse.",
"inthepitinthepitinthe pit🤟",
"You mean these rappers who sing about murdering people and treat women like objects aren't good people?",
"When I went to university we had to watch that as part of a course to be able to work in the school bar as a bartender. Really made you respect fire safety rules.",
"This is what I imagine a Travis Scott concert to be like:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/C0WJY2cLEuk?t=171\n\n*sorry*",
"Ignoring the shit that happened for a moment, holy shit what a bad and talentless 'artist'. Pathetic show.\n\nJust compare that to [Stromae his performance](https://youtu.be/eOZLDQm9c2E).",
"Go easy on them. They were trying to help. This was a panic situation. Everybody freaking out. I would hate to have that job.",
"I actually assumed he was a committee built American Idol type pop-country singer before those kids died a few days ago and I took the time to look him up. The name “Travis Scott” is just so bland and forgettable, I think if you are an adult who doesn’t follow mumble rap or reality TV gossip, you could’ve seen his name around a few times and just never have clocked it. His music doesn’t particularly stand out stylistically and he’s not objectively talented enough to have broad appeal. He was only “one of the most famous people on the planet” to a limited demographic.",
"Not fucking fast enough, no",
"I’ve been recording you in the shower for years..",
"Can we actually stop supporting shitty celebrities? How are these people allowed to make millions when they don’t deserve a penny",
"Thanks 🙏",
"Another asshat \"rapper\". Why am I not surprised?",
"Almost every time I can think of when someone got out of control or aggressive, they would get confronted by people who were bigger than them or would out number them and give them some pretty obvious \"warning shoves\" and squeeze them out of the pit, one way or another.\n\nEither way, when it happens, I notice everyone else noticing that person in the same way I do, because it's not welcome and everyone wants that person to leave.\n\nOne interesting thing I've learned over the years, and I've been hitting up the pits for 20 years now, is that the more \"mainstream\" the metal, the more shitty people you see in the pit. But the heavier, more brutal/aggressive and more niche stuff, the guys in the pit have respect for others. They're super rough and charge around shoving each other with the force of tidal waves, but it's like as soon as you walk into that pit you're part of a rowdy family just having a good time.",
"It looks almost like they jumped into a giant foam pit, and the audience was added later in post-production.",
"At least 6ix9ine more",
"Jerry Lee Lewis' career might have taken a nose dive for a time, but it certainly didn't end, following the scandal he kept touring and recording with relatively limited success (his 1964 live album being a hit at the time), then 10 years after the scandal broke he pivoted to country and had a huge string of hits. In fact his career is still going, his 2006 album sold over a million copies, and he's apparently recording a new album at the moment. \n\nAll this despite the other questionable marriages, abuse accusations and generally shitty and abhorrent behaviour over the years.",
"Travis Kardashian",
"It's probably because people have different music tastes than what you have",
"Occasionally I go on his music videos on YouTube and reference this",
"I will never forget being in an emergency row of a plane during an emergency landing in a 737. The function of the end person on the row is crowd control. You’re just there to hold people back from rushing the exits while the other two try and get the door open.",
"Well, those personal injury attorneys are about to have more fun than Kyle Rittenhouse’s defense team.",
"YouTube comment in there Strawbeb said \"This is the clearest video we have to show he could see what was going on.\" 1000% agreed.",
"i wouldn't know who this asshole is if not for reddit. and I was happy in my ignorance",
"I haven’t watched any of these vids but oh my god. When he points to the ambulance and then turns around to his boys. Then turns back around and says “I want the fucking ground to shake”. My whole body was screaming. I can’t imagine being there, getting crushed by the crowd, or laying on the ground, and hearing the artist encouraging everyone to jump, knowing that it will kill you as people inevitably jump on you. My heart breaks for those people that went out for a good time and never came home 💔",
"\"somehow Palpatine returned\"",
"This comment reminded me of local bands that would swing heavy chains around and then people would set off firecrackers in the pit. People can be real shit heads lol",
"I've been coming across this more and more lately. Like not that I care but what the hell is a \"doja cat\" ?",
">Not a fan of this guy or his music but he didn't do anything wrong!!!!\n\nSo you're putting words in people's mouth and just making shit up now?\n\nAlso the music was stopped according to this video, once the help arrived he continued. But whatever kid. Just follow the hate train crowd since you have nothing better to do with your life.",
"With a name like that i thought he was a country singer or something. Thought it was weird people getting injured at a country festival.",
"This is exactly why all the people talking about how respectful mosh pits are don't know what they're talking about. A crush is so much different from a mosh pit. You are packed so tight that your body is completely glued to several other bodies smooshing you from all sides. It gets so hot and you literally have no control. Sometimes your feet aren't even touching the floor. Every motion propogates through the crowd as if you are all one fluid. It's truly terrifying and I've experienced this at metal shows. You are no longer individuals capable of making decisions or coming together to help each other, you are all being swept back and forth helplessly with nowhere to go.",
"The one where he had to answer (very simple) questions about Kylie and basically didn't know a single one? Yeah that was cringey af. She was basically talking to a rock.",
"He’s already famous, he’s been famous since 2014-2015. Corporate America isn’t going to kill his career, he just won’t have McDonald’s meals anymore.",
"Bro this wouldn't even be the first time a Kardashian has got a black celebrity off for killing people. And that time the guy literally killed them himself.",
"That's fine, internet stranger. That's what my friends are for.\n\nEdit: Their deleted comment said \"I'm not inviting you to any metal shows\" or something like that",
"You're making me so happy I don't have kids.",
"I think Chris brown sorta recovered from his shit cause Rihanna and him got back together. And ppl just kinda forgot the severity of what he did. ‘If she’s okay with it, then so are we’ type of backward mentality.",
">Being a piece of shit and having a pretty solid discography aren't mutually exclusive. \n\nOf course, Vikernes is a murderer and arsonist, but Filosofem is a good album. Clapton is a tremendous racist. R Kelley - well, let's not talk about him.\n\nScott doesn't even really make his own music. One his debut \"solo\" record there is one(!) track where he has sole writing credits.\n\n> the composition and production on Rodeo is super impressive\n\nIn what way? I've heard this often recently; at least as far as production goes, and I frankly don't know what it means. If you perfectly bake shit pizza is still shit. Take that as literally as you wish.\n\nAnd as far as composition goes, is it impressive? There's nothing happening, not melodically, not harmonically, what is impressive?\n\nI get it doesn't sound like that but I'm genuinely asking. I was never into hip hop and rap, but I used to see the talent and music in it. It was just a matter of taste. But a lot of the stuff that's popular now, I just don't get in any level. \n\n> If that's what early SoundCloud rappers sounded like to you, I need to know who the hell you were listening to. Lmao\n\nI was talking before SoundCloud. The rap style especially in the heavily processes parts is very reminiscent of amateurs with no flow. In the 2000s I was listening to Napalm Death.",
"Apple was live-streaming it and probably paid him handsomely for it. Can’t have interruptions, especially people dying. Not a good look. The show must go on.",
"Does around the same time mean before the middle finger moment or after?",
"Wasn't comparing you to Hitler, just using a hyperbolic example of someone who was quite possibly the biggest piece of shit to ever exist yet was still extremely influential in his time. (Not in a good way)",
"Some say his mind is his most powerful weapon. Just look at that face. A man truly unburdened by any manner of substantial thought, ha ha",
"Playboi Carti is very feminine and not thuggish. Give him a listen. He wears leather pants and has long hair.",
"LIFE WITGOUT PAROLE",
"Dude [industry manipulation](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/digital-marketing-streaming-manipulation-1138529/) to meet corporate sales demands has been a thing since music became a major industry.\n\n The \"hype\" that gives Travis Scott his popularity is completely industry manufactured to boost sales and get fad followers to bite the hook.",
"I don’t know why people even go to shows like this. If it’s a big venue then there better be seats and I don’t go in the pit. Pits are for small venues, not 100+ people.",
"Have u even ever listened to his music? What you are saying sounds crazy delusional",
"!RemindMe 70 years",
"Haha",
"Did some research and the company behind production was Live Nation.",
"Is he soft in the head?",
"If you go your way I go mine(back to your device thats It)",
"r/rapmorelikecrap",
"He's certainly famous but I think you're greatly overestimating it. He's one of the most famous people in the world...to Gen-Z Americans. Dude has nowhere near the same level of fame outside the US and especially outside of western countries. Hell, a lot of Americans didn't even know who he was or only vaguely did until this weekend.",
"HAHAHAHA\n\nLaughs in Levi’s.",
"This actually makes a little bit of sense....",
"Jon Gruden for President!!",
"This is what passes for music, artistry, and talent in 2021? Calgon, take me away.",
"Chris Brown ? Cmon on fam greatest coke head talented artist we have",
"Woah back off man. I’m a huge Vin Diesel fan!",
"Finally someone in this thread is talking sense. Travis Scott clearly fucked up, but he isn't the only person that needs to be held accountable.",
"I'm not watching it again but initially I thought someone noticed her top was out of whack and was just fixing it for her but you've made me rethink what I saw.",
"He’s not just another performer, though, it’s his festival. That’s quite a bit different.",
"I'm happy Mega64 ended their collab at least",
"Kinda like when the president incited that riot",
"Except when they enter a crowded subway train.",
"Is this moron talking to themselves?",
"Epic wanted a larger share of the money hose, Apple said no. There are no heroes in *that* conflict.",
"r/FuckTravisScott",
"I didn't know there was EDM-trap. The EDM scene is alright. Not my dig but what I have seen from its fans is they just want noise they can vibe to.",
"God, like, yeah that sucks that it happened, but it's a crazy mass casualty event. There probably wasn't a stretcher for her and these guys, who are clearly rushed, stressed, trying to hurry to save someone's life, and they made a mistake. Let's crucify them even though we should hold Travis Scott and the event coordinator responsible for being a piece of shit and just making shit difficult in the former, and not equipping the facility to handle a tremendous piece of shit's concert, who has a history of dangerous crowd surges which he encourages.",
"Wow celebrities are delusional",
"What the fuck is the point of a rap “concert?” I still can’t figure this out.",
"Not the first time he’s incited a crowd to challenge security, barriers, etc. probably a pretty strong case against him (and promoters/organizers) for civil damages.",
"Imagine being so stupid that you choose this guy to be your partner. (Kylie Jenner)",
"Say what you will about Travis, that idea is amazing. I knew of concerts (Marshmello) but didn't know it was as common as it was. This needs to get bigger.",
"Common, Lupe Fiasco, Twista and that's just Chicago.\n\nAnd yeah, rap is becoming lazier with the triplet flow as you only need to stress the first syllable. Makes it significantly easier to write and make beats for.\n\nRap for a long while was social commentary since back of the days of the Sugar hill gang and Furious Five and Grandmaster Flash.\n\nEven during the days of gangster rap, there were a lot of songs about hardship.\n\nAnd we see this in a lot of musical genres. From Blues, to folk, to country, even punk. It's downtrodden, almost counter culture and rebellious.\n\nBut when it needs to be sanitized to be marketed to suburban youth (let's be honest, the suburbs were a product of White Flight, again, I'm from Chicago) who have an immense amount of spending power, companies don't look for rappers who had to talk about being woken up by gunshots in the middle of the night, they look for someone born in a middle class family in Canada and was a TV actor.\n\nThey don't want them to rap about drug or health epidemics, they want to be able to plug brands, or do a tie in with McDonald's\n\nNot everyone can relate to government cheese and the first of the month, but everyone knows that Gucci and Versace are status symbols of wealth.",
"The real yikes is to want to listen to his songs and go to his concert.",
"It's because of culture, that's all. Some people in America don't have an internal compass mainly due to bad parenting. They're unauthentic zombies always going with the flow.",
"Those people on the bottom wish they were the highest in the room",
"Axl Rose be like \"no one can assault my fans but me\"",
"Terrible people get chosen by dumb people to be their partners.",
"No, I'm using \"urban\" to describe where the school was located. Are you using \"mostly black\" as a euphemism for \"mostly brick\"? If so, then yes. The facade if the school was \"mostly brick\".",
"In millions of ways",
"8 is worse. Nothing happens and it's extremely boring.",
"These were way worse than the prequels.",
"There's victim blaming around cyclists and pedestrians in the US? Haven't experienced that myself.",
"Dumb…ass",
"I mean. No one built it. We watched it. Why you gonna Stan a stranger???",
"No, I meant \"urban\" because that's what I meant. \n\n\n\"You mean black?\"\n\nYou mean \"I and a douchenozzle\"?",
"That is exactly why this happened. Texas is big on deregulation and due to the relaxed regulations, those who ran the festival and venue cut corners to save on cost. \n\nLegally they were within bounds, but that doesn't mean shit when the legal bounds don't have an actual boundary.",
"It's a dog whistle used by conservatives a lot, and i was curious if that's what was happening here.",
"honestly i’d never heard travis scott before this. won’t now either. fuck that guy.",
"I mean look, I’m sympathetic to the confusion of the moment and all; but at the point there is an actual ambulance trying to navigate a crowd, why isn’t the show stopping? Regardless of what your boss says?",
"It's who he is. Just another thug",
"Are you referring to the incident in which he told everyone to be peaceful and respect law enforcement, but then shortly thereafter got banned from Twitter for *that very tweet* for \"inciting violence\"?",
"Yeah, I looked him up. I played 5 or so of his songs and was not impressed. I actually thought, “damn, he must have a great marketing team”, because from what I heard, he is just doing what talented people have already done, but with less skill. His songs seem to be just uninspired lyrics through autotune droning over big bass beats. There’s no cleverness or novelty to anything I heard. \n\nLike, I used to bartend at a really popular hip hop club in a major city and the demos that random dudes would leave on my bar every weekend were as good as or better than any of Travis Scotts’ songs that I listened to.\n\nI’m willing to give it another go if you have songs to recommend. I’d like to understand the appeal.",
"Yeah! screw the medics and security for trying to get someone some help.",
"Yep there’ll be PR teams manufacturing a new version of the story that shows him in a good light, working around the clock on social media.",
"Are you joking? It doesn’t take a “mind reader” to:\n\n-\tNotice a major shift in the audience who are all looking directly at YOU\n-\tRealize YOU are the only one holding a microphone designed to broadcast your voice to literally every human within half a mile \n\nThe whole “he was too dumb to help” argument is weak.",
"Everyone is hating on Travis Twat, and it is well deserved. Buuuut, the majority of the crowd deserve hella hate alongside him.",
"Wish I was a bot lol",
"Good thing the FBI is stepping in.",
"Let’s b real tho, Rihanna was also beating him. They were both in the wrong, should both b at fault",
"You should since he's a dope artist",
"Well, since it’s his festival I guess you could kind of call him one of the heads of event staff. He wasn’t just some performer hired to do a set.",
">https://i.imgur.com/EXT5Hfu.jpg\n\nDamn you're right.",
"You don’t become a man because of age. He’s a spoiled rich kid",
"I don’t understand how anybody can follow or worship celebrities",
"Glad you find it funny. Literally posted proof and yet you still think it is a joke. Stay blind and keep licking those boots.",
"I’m in Houston. I’m a law student but I already know several Lawyers on the case. I only wish I was licensed so o could get in on the action. There’s gonna be a lot of really interesting cases arising out of this, and a lot of family’s will be compensated. Sadly, compensation is all they can get now.",
"Imagine supporting a guy who tells you to flip off an ambulance instead of getting out their way.",
"Seems to be confined mostly to rock/metal/punk. Not sure why rap concerts exist on the first place.",
"Great tip, it works!! However, only when I pressed the three dot menu twice!",
"Which one of the two above you said “this would never happen at my genres show?”",
"Do you have premium or free?",
"Just another self centred POS. No one matters but him.",
"My dad was a paramedic in NYC for a few years in the late 70's/early 80's. People would see him coming into an apartment building with a bunch of equipment and a stretcher, and would intentionally hold the elevator at the top floor to prevent him from using it, for no other reason than \"FUCK YOU, WHITEY!\"\n\nThis is nothing new.",
"It’s also hilarious to me that rap is trying to bring rock concert culture into it. Obviously the two don’t mix.",
"I can’t believe that many people have such horrible taste in music.",
"That generalization is idiotic. There's been plenty of criticism from his fans.\n\nThe crowd didn't even have a good understanding of the situation, so they may thought the problem was solved, and whatever shitty behavior they do shouldn't result in making moronic claims like yours about the rest of his fans.\n\n\"If everybody good, put a middle finger in the sky\"",
"This is what happen you when glorified a thug.",
"Yes! Been to many metal festivals and when someone falls, there are always instant hands pulling them up again. I am only 5'2 and to be honest I dislike mosh pits because the crowd gets compressed, but whenever it happened, there are big guys who go in front of me.",
"What does it matter to you? Did you think you were going to solve some mystery? \n\nA dog whistle is \"The use of terms that seem innocuous but are intended to convey a hidden and potentially controversial message to a particular audience.\" What did you think the \"potentially controversial message\" was?",
"Lou M Taylor is directly involved with Live Nation's CEO, Michael Rapino. \nhttps://loutaylor.net/lou-taylor-ceo-tri-star-sports-entertainment-group-2/\n\nShe is also the Kardashians' business manager and was spotted in a picture with Travis Scott before his set at astroworld, as seen in my original post.",
"A true scum bag. Brain dead moron is a perfect example of what’s wrong with our society.",
"This cunt is the epitome of r/iamatotalpieceofshit",
"I mean, take one listen to Travis Scott’s music and tell me you’re surprised this happened there. \n\nThis would be unexpected at some rap shows… say, A Tribe Called Quest… Travis Scott? Hardly surprising.",
"I have my doubts. They can easily slither out of this and still reap in the monetization of the media coverage. Streaming platforms have been doing it for a while. Its less of a \"platform\" and more like a channel on a TV now.",
"Weird hill to die on but do you, I guess",
"Conservatives use \"urban\" when they mean \"black\" and want to say awful things about people and their tendencies, while not actually saying \"black\". Seemed like you might have been doing that, that's all. I bet you're colorblind though, you don't even remember the race of the people who said that, right?",
"The Station Fire had me down a crowd crush rabbit hole one night and it has sort of turned into a low key obsession/phobia of mine. I, too, don't go very deep into a room without first spotting my plan(s) of escape.",
"Uh, what",
"Charged? No. He’ll be the defendant in several civil suits. But more than likely, the real big fish will be the promoters, city of Houston, NRG, security company, etc… \n\nYou need to show a duty for a negligence claim and I’m not sure what legal “duty” Travis had. Now the promoters and NRG and security teams… they’re gonna be paying out the ass.",
"#A BIT?",
"Ambulance drivers: I have the high ground.",
"Oh come on. Feigned indignance?",
"Well they’re at a Travis Scott concert. Did you expect them not to be dipshits?",
"All the people putting their fingers in the air for it are pieces of shit too. They can make their own decisions n they made a shitty one following that pointless fuck.",
"Ppl dying.\n\nTS: \"Y'all know what you came to do.\"\n\nPpl dying:",
"There’s absolutely nothing remarkable about her other than her family and fame, and she has like 270,000,000 followers. It’s insane.",
"Brain too weak to not let his jaw hanging while \"thinking\". What a retard.",
"The best part is every single post just makes him look worse and worse.",
"Fair, but it's worth pointing out that Scott specifically has a history of inciting crowds to rush, break barriers, attack people, etc. This was a massive failure of a lot of parties but if it was going to happen to someone it makes sense that it happened to Scott. Culture carried by the fans is created by the performers/stars and it does affect behavior at shows.",
"Disgusting. What a trash human",
"The people that went to this show never knew how to act in the first place. That’s why they listen to Travis Scott.",
"The kardashian curse strikes again!",
"What a weird thing to say",
"I saw those things happen closely together, but I don't remember the order. Either way, it definitely was after the parts where he obviously knew people were getting hurt. And instead of helping or stopping he kept going and encouraged the crowd to get worse",
"Thought it was ASAP Rocky and not really sure who he is..",
"Yeah he’s a piece of shit. He even looks like a junkie. Not sure why these kardashians love him so much",
"I’m all for a hate dog pile but lol",
"He walks dumb.",
"I’m afraid of your link, can someone braver tell me what happened?",
"That's my point, this is due to specific parties like Travis Scott's behavior and his business manager Lou M. Taylor, and not the genres of music being played.",
"Fuck. This. Guy.",
"\"Uhhhh wut doing?\"",
"Travis Scott apology video reminds me of a POS friend I used to have that always deflected blame and never confronted his shit behavior. Therefore Travis Scott is shit.",
"What did you think their point was?",
"That wasn't a Trump rally though",
"The deuces 😮 that’s how brainwashed most of the people there are by this stuff. \n\nThe fact that Travis Scott put on that show with all the planning and creating (a fucking mountain portal and all the creepy symbolism) and actually had people literally killing others and themselves to try and rush up to him is insane. It’s almost like a worshipping type behavior.",
"Did you watch the whole video before that",
"These people have lost their minds. Honestly, so many people are so inured to the system that they don’t even know what positive art would look like. Power, domination, control, slavery, and compulsive hedonism are all glorified because they are disabling to the average person and block any kind of resistance to the actual power in society. But this kind of burnout music is self-defeating in the long run, it just contributes to societal decay and general breakdown. There is a general lack of courage in our society. People will just call you racist for trying to have a higher standard for society. They are just drones.",
"He's wearing leather pants, has a punk rock vibe, is not \"mumble rapping\", and he's even paying homage to one of his favorite rock bands. What more do you want?",
"The organisers are responsible but not entirely. He was in a position of power to do something. He could clearly see there were issues and he did little to assist.\n\nJust watch the video posted. He's looking at the ambulance and then he pumps the crowd up \"I wanna make this mother fucking ground shake, God damn it\".",
"Agree. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt then it looks like he is stalling. I don’t know much about the ordeal but that’s how it appears to me. I hope he really didn’t know the damage…seems like more blame should be on the organisers etc that can actually see what’s going on and aren’t the ones performing with other things on their mind. \nHow many people should of seen the danger",
"UMF 2016. Was in that crowd. Yeah it was fucked. Insane show tho would do again. Mind you the people around me weren’t that bad",
"I just learned on a podcast the Barbie murderer from Canada married her lawyer. Even after the dude saw the video evidence of her and her ex husband raping and killing teenage girls. You don't get to be a serial killer without being able to play other humans like a fuckin fiddle.",
"Same with Michael Jackson and R. Kelly",
"Can always tell Siri to fuck Travis Scott. Worked for me!",
"I’m going to play a bit of a devil’s advocate here. From what I seen and heard about this guy, I would guess that he’s not the smartest cookie. He might have not realized the seriousness of what was happening. But his support team should have notified him and tell him to stop the show. His manager should get as much attention about this as he is. They let him play for another 30-40 minutes since first issues occurred.",
"Not a shocker that the Kartrashians are mixed up with this piece of human garbage. They historically have fucking shit taste in partners\n\nHe needs to be charged, I mean who sees an ambulance and then decides 'You know what? I don't give a fuck what that's about I need to spew out my third rate raps to these deluded fools who wasted their money to see me'",
"Clown be gone",
"It's not like all the comments are racist, or even negative. But some people have taken this opportunity to allow their very backward opinions to fly.",
"This music is embarrassingly bad...",
"You can block them on Spotify at least. Search artist, tap the 3 dots next to the name and then block away.",
"I spent a good chunk of time in both the metal and rave scenes and have done Wall of Death for Lamb of God and been in massive festivals for Deadmau5, Bassnectar, etc. I'm a tall guy so usually trying to protect one or two people around me. I've been in some sketchy situations but never anything close to this. All the videos I've seen of Astroworld are truly nightmarish. I find Travis Scott's music very anxiety inducing tho which also doesn't help",
"I have been pondering this as well all weekend. I think a good dose of stupid plays a lot into it, as someone else mentioned.\n\nI also wonder: how common is it for his performance to be streamed? There seemed to be a lot of focus on the “show must go on” aspect to it, with that other video of the camera operator. Did that feed into the stupid + narcissist part?",
"Racist",
"r/totalpieceofshit r/trashy",
"My dads cousin met his ex wife in the pit at a Pantera concert in the 90s after she beat the shit out of another woman. Bad shit happens everywhere. This isn’t because it was a rap concert. It was because it was a shitty artist and shitty organizers. I’ve been in pits at a bunch of rap, punk, and metal shows. There’s been good people and shitty people on all of them. This was an unfortunate event. But you can’t blame it on rap music.",
"copy-pasting A New Hope was the closest thing to a good idea they had in the entire trilogy...",
"he didn’t luck into his life lmao, why are people so horrible here. the dude is regarded amongst his peers as one of the best drum players in the industry.",
"Let me guess you are a Travis Scott fan",
"Haha! I thought u meant OJ at first, because of the dad/lawyer. I’ll look up station.",
"A lot of people here are insulting those who raised their finger, but here's what Travis said: \"If everybody good, put a middle finger in the sky.\"\n\nTo be clear, I'm not defending Travis' horrendous behavior.",
"Jumping feet first into the crowd...",
"Piece of shit.",
"That's got to be bait. Surely no-one is this stupid.",
"Yeah I know right? I just don't understand why everybody is pretending hes a bad musician all of a sudden. Rodeo is a groundbreaking album and Astroworld was a top performing album doing Drake numbers. He's obviously a douchebag that deserves to face the consequences of his actions but let's not pretend this is Lil Xan or some shit.",
"Very reasonable point but I don’t think most people in this thread (see: all of default reddit) realize how popular he is.",
"Who?",
"Yeah none of the posts I saw looked like that… they all seemed like fair criticisms.",
"I have premium and when I press the three dot menu I just get \"create station\" and \"share artist\"",
"Never heard of this bloke until this, but what a piece of sh*t",
"Oops, you were. The juice! Possibly my first memory as a youth. The Bronco ✌️",
"Ok Reddit we get it: he's a massive cunt.",
"They're not dipshits for doing that. It was in response to him saying, \"If everybody good, put a middle finger in the sky.\"\n\nEdit: Medical attention being needed isn't that uncommon at huge concerts, so it makes sense for the crowd to follow along with the request to say if they're fine, since they weren't aware of how big of shitshow it was.",
"Holy shit, that’s an extremely accurate description of what they did. I have no idea what their method was about. I’ve never seen it done that way. It seems oddly aggressive for stage diving.",
"His music is fuckin trash anyway",
"How nice of you not to jump to conclusions when there were pictures of Rihanna's face bloodied and blue courtesy of Chris.",
"never knew his music but I always assumed he sucked. yeah he sucks",
"It does! I wonder if the point was to use their momentum to start a mosh pit where they jumped.",
"This isn’t a rap vs metal thing. This is specific to a shitty artist. I grew up going to metal, punk, and rap shows in Chicago. There was respect at all of them. Cadence Weapon, the Cool Kids, and chip the ripper all stopped their shows while I was there for shit happening in the crowds. \n\n\nThere was also 50,000 people there. The only time I’ve been in crowds near that size for a concert was Lollapalooza and even the. People split for various artists performing simultaneously.",
"Intro lady Gaga.",
"I get you bro. To me he clearly looks confused. Looks around for answers. Then to refocus the crowds attention, he asked them to put a middle finger in the sky followed by two hands in the sky. Just like any typical rap concert. \n\nNo it was NOT directed towards the ambulance.",
"When u dont die in covid but u die because of not following social distancing xd",
"100% this, could he have handled it better? Absolutely. \nWe're his actions callous and malicious? Absolutely not. He has a lot of stage lighting on him and it's dark as fuck, I doubt anyone commenting here has been on a stage like this before, but he can't see shit, the handful of things he can see is the sound tower, and lights on top of the ambulance.",
"Wow.. fick this piece of human trash, who the fuck kills their own fucking fans???",
"I’m against cancel culture usually… but I’m ok with canceling this clown",
"It's stagecraft. He's giving his audience a way to interact with and become part of the show.",
"Same people were saying \"Travis couldn't possibly have seen that ambulance there were 50k people there\" despite the video of him pointing to the ambulance and saying \"wait what the fuck is that?\" and also video from the stage where you can clearly see the ambulance.",
"Yeah, no. Ahmed Best was hounded to the point of considering suicide because he played a goofy character. Jake Lloyd has never recovered, although it may not all be related. Nothing that's happened with the Disney trilogy, not even the obsessive Reylos, is comparable to that. And the prequels were vastly better movies than anything that's come out of Disney.\n\nEdit: As points of comparison between the movies, just look at the opening crawls. \"Somehow Palpatine has returned\" needs no discussion, it's just catastrophically bad. \"The First Order Reigns\" how!? We just saw them lose everything! And in TFA, there's just no good reason given for anything, if the FO are a serious threat why isn't the New Republic addressing it, if they're not why are they in the movie? On the other hand, \"The taxation of trade routes to outlying systems is in dispute\" is exactly what all of those movies desperately needed: an actual sensible motivation for the conflict.",
"It most definitely isn't the only way.",
"I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and was thinking that he maybe was being ignorant/naive/overwhelmed because i knew absolutely nothing about the guy. But man, all these videos just keep giving and i hope they won't just dismiss his guilt in this.",
"He was raised in the suburbs. \n\nThis man is not a thug. \n\nHe is an asshole tho.",
"Honestly Travis is messed up for astroworld was defo a ritual to hell",
"Just removed the Travis songs from my Spotify library after seeing this. If you can't respect medical professionals trying to do their job then I don't respect you.",
"It’s not that normal bud.",
"That didn’t strike me as having anything to do with the guy’s race. It had everything to do with how he talks. He talks the way he does because of the person he is, not because of his race. For example, Barrack Obama, Neil Degrasse Tyson, Mike Tyson, Denzel Washington, Chris Rock, Kevin Hart, Chris Tucker, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and just about every other famous black person I could list don’t speak that way and neither do any of the non-famous black people I know in real life.",
"Meh. \n\nYou can’t put a face to 40,000 people .",
"Woah waoh, I know tons of women who've gotten slapped by their partners to be disciplined. And I get that in some cultures that's a big no-no, but there's a big difference between beating your wife to harm them, and a slap that is used to discipline.\n\nDo you really not see yourself what you just said? Or is it different because they're kids so it's okay to physically abuse them?",
"The main point of iems is for you to be able to hear yourself and the music. They block out nearly all outside sound since they are molded to your ear canal. Thus the only way to talk to your artist, for sound check for example is through the talk back which both the monitor guy and foh will have connected. Any artist with their own engineer 200% has talkback setup",
"I don't think any etiquette would have helped here, you can't pick up people if there is physically not enough space to do so",
"ok.",
"Bono has been actively involved in charities, causes and generally bettering the world since 1986. His AIDS charity alone has raised 600 million dollars. \n\nTravis Scott had a fucking hamburger named after him. U2 can have my pennies.",
"I’m broke as shit so here my freebie♥️\nMore people need to see this it is 100% narcissistic behavior he is feeding off of how much these people love and worship him.",
"It's an Army of Darkness reference.",
"There is plenty of dumbass white people. In fact redneck, hick, and hillbilly are all words to describe dumb white people. \n\nYou're trying to twist a comment to fit your narrative. I'm not sure why, I guess it's some attempt to defend Travis Scott. But it's a very poor attempt. And possibly reveals something about your own racial biases.",
"For sure there's going to be backstage audio and video coming out soon and it likely will include people talking about what is happening in the crowd. At that point it will just be a question of how high those conversations went and why those people didn't stop the show.",
"Fuck this POS , god what a douche",
",Does improper- gram'mar bother you?",
"Im not sure of the context or intent here.\n\nBut can I just say his music is fucking awful and Im openminded enough to like a lot of overproduced shite rap, if the people with actual talent..the backroom staff...make a musical creation I can admire, and I appreciate we can just keep repeating good old rap..it has to experiment.\n\nBut ..hes fucking shite.",
"People are talking about his career, but this is also a police case, right? Years in jail, at least.",
"clearly he thought it was a cop car trying to mess up the crowd until his people came over \"my bad my bad\"",
"they 100% could control this, travis scott has encouraged this behavior at numerous shows, a fairly well known venue, which i won't name because i still like to work there when they need me, has barred travis scott from playing there because of him encouraging people to try to bum rush us (security) to get backstage on a prior booking.\n\nthe venue he was at this time was built to hold 200k, they closed off a majority of it to force standing room only for better footage to make it seem like it was super sold out and jam packed and not just 1/4 of the actual capacity, then you have travis scott encouraging this type of shit...\n\nfuck everyone involved in the managing, production, and planning of this show, from the performers on down, they should all be facing life as this shit is premeditated depraved heart murder",
"Why does that even matter?",
"Middle finger is Saturn 🪐",
"Sold his soul to the devil.",
"Does anyone know why exactly he flipped off the ambulamb?",
"man, he had so many opportunities to STOP and he just didn’t…….\n\ndid he assume it was someone that was just too drunk/high?? what were those two guys saying to him? did they tell him the situation wasn’t that big of a deal and he should continue? or were they telling him ‘people are fucking dying’ but he continued anyway? \n\nI find it hard to believe that anyone could be so uncaring towards other human beings but this is a pattern of behavior with him. he encourages this shit, “y’all know what you came here to do, I want to make this mother fucking ground shake” even if he didn’t realize people were actually getting hurt and dying it’s clear he had no intentions of even helping the situation get better. I don’t think he ever wanted people to actually die at his shows, but he never truly cared about the well-being of those that attend his shows or even listen to his music. \n\nLike if people just got hurt, and no one was killed or seriously injured, do you think he’d brag about this? do you think he’d boast and think it’s cool that the crowd got so fucking rowdy that it was actual chaos? they’d use that as promo for next year’s fest for sure……hopefully there won’t be a fest next year.",
"I remember my family saying the same things about music I liked.",
"i listen to trap for the same reasons i listen to punk and used to listen to metal. its energetic, aggressive, and fun music to just feel confident to. its braggadocious and grandiose at times and a nasty beat with a dirty 808 gives me the same adrenaline rush that a heavy breakdown does in a metal song. i also listen to music with more depth but that's not always the mood i'm in. this argument is like saying \"why do people eat potato chips\" sometimes you want a snack and not a gourmet meal. that being said there is also trap that leans more experimental in production (a ton of travis scott songs actually) and there is trap with more lyrical depth than what you hear on the radio.",
"They have Apple Poor Person+",
"/u/ssracer is probably talking about Apple Music not Spotify.",
"Wdym by it started there",
"he was in the 2019 superbowl halftime show. call the guy a jackass all you want, hell we'll all join you cause the evidence is there. but i really think you need to admit to yourself that you can be uninformed.",
"And you sound like an ignorant 14 yr old trying to be edgy. So there's also that.",
"oops he did it again",
"Question: Why is the music so shit?",
"Uhm yeah buddy, whatever you say. I really hate how he is successfull in being less of a human right now.",
"I only knew about this artist because I bought some Reese‘s puffs cereal a few years ago as a treat and he was on the box. \n\nI’m old I guess.",
"Never go to an outdoor concert with more than a few thousand people and get in that mosh pit. I saw ppl get fucked up at the first Warped Tours. It got better after the first few years. Most ppl wanna help but that wave doesn’t let you do anything but try to survive sometimes.",
"Lol, keep defending him:)",
"Is this the same rapper that beat someone in a sweden with his crew or was it someone else?",
"Proven by fucking what? You have no cllue what you are talking about.",
"I still can't wrap my head around him being relevant after that and he's a POS artist to boot.",
"It literally is. 300, if anything, is light.",
"[It can happen even in Japan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashi_pedestrian_bridge_accident)",
"I doubt it since people were informing the Apple people filming and they didn’t do a damn thing",
"**[Akashi pedestrian bridge accident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashi_pedestrian_bridge_accident)** \n \n >The Akashi pedestrian bridge accident (明石歩道橋事故, Akashi hodōkyō jiko) was a human crush that occurred on 21 July 2001 in Akashi, Hyōgo, Japan. In the incident, a large crowd of people packed into a partially enclosed pedestrian overpass leading to Asagiri Station after a fireworks show. The resulting crush killed 11 people, including two adults and nine children, and injured 247 others. Five civic and security officials were later convicted of professional negligence for not preventing the disaster.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"Desktop version of /u/GloriousHypnotart's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashi_pedestrian_bridge_accident>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)",
"This guy is straight trash",
"Drugs 🧐",
"TIL Jerry Lee Lewis is still alive",
"I guess there is a point to it, even cultures that are supposedly \"naturally better\" with crowd orderliness can suffer crowd crush. Japan has also had fatal crushes. It just goes to show everywhere needs proper crowd management and safety measures and blaming the victims is wrong, whether in Akashi, Sheffield or Houston.",
"I used to have a crowd phobia. I would lock up and be completely unable to move outside one and have panic attacks moving through them. It took years of therapy and careful convention experience to make me able to handle crowds and even today I need to have an escape route and a plan going to a crowded place. \n\nMy point is that when I had that phobia this stuff would have destroyed me. It was literally the fear I dealt with. I honestly don’t know if I’ll ever be able to go to a concert that isn’t sit down with assigned seating.",
"At least 2 off the top of my head. GNR is also banned in St Louis",
"My wife watched it and just told me about it. That was enough (too much) for me. I’ve never been compelled to watch it. I hate even imagining it. But it’s stuck in my head. The things she told me.",
"Just watching that video I started having trouble breathing. Jesus christ what a nightmare",
"Is this supposed to be music?",
"I don't think they were implying the audio team should have made the call, just that the ability to cut the sound was literally at multiple peoples fingertips the whole time and nobody told them to do it.",
"I'm not defending him, but whatever dude.",
"Agreed. He is negligent bordering on grossly negligent. Watching this video suggests he understood an ambulance was on the scene and he actively had the crowd flip it off with both hands before encouraging them to “make the ground shake.” \n\nI would be surprised if crew were not in his earpiece about what the fuck was going on in the crowd. It seems like his rhetorical “what the fuck is that?” was potentially getting a response. \n\nAs an avid and well seasoned festival and concert goer, watching this is sickening and absolutely terrifying. I cannot believe no one was able to stop this even when they knew of the issue.",
"Ooh! My turn to jump on the pile! Travis Scott is a a big doo doo head!",
"I don't know anything about this guy but are people really letting the organisers/venue off the hook and blaming the guy on the stage who is supposed to be there to sing and cannot really know what is going on in a crowd of tens of thousands of people?",
"The performer telling the audience to put their middle finger up is a common occurence in hip hop/rap concerts. Completely irrelevant.",
"Dude, he literally defended his use of the N word and his lyrics about immigrants after the fact in interviews, lol. He has since distanced himself from that song, they don’t play it in concert and it wasn’t on the disc 2 remaster of AFD event though all of the other Lies songs were on there.",
"Terrible people always tend to put other terrible people on pedestals.",
"Stop listening to ghetto ass shit maybe?",
"Mine too, but at least the musicians I listened to could make that attitude and noise through vocals along with playing instruments.",
"_And you'll deserve it, too!_",
"I think it’s quite possible they were. Someone needs to litigate here.",
"I've never been to a concert like this, did they allow more people than the venue can hold? Someone in a video said it was so packed you couldn't even lift your arm and people were passing out because of a lack of oxygen, seems like a nightmare",
"I despise the type of person that would like him and continue to support him after this.",
"That's what you get for still using apple music lol",
"This ankle doesn’t deserve to be famous. Useless human being.",
"It’s the video this post is on. \n\nWhen he asks “what the duck is that?” He seems to be listening to a response on his monitor. \n\nThey are likely telling him, “people are injured. There’s a situation” or some\nVariation and he likely can see in the crowd there’s a situation - like a dead spot that’s not really moshing and jumping with the rest. \n\nHe chose to amp the crowd up even more. This is insane.",
"Filosofem sounds like a broken microwave, even more so than other black metal.\n\nWhen it comes to bm I much prefer the likes of batushka or beherit.",
"he and his fans {well the attendees} are just garbage humans. the whole thing is sickening",
"There are women out there who defend dudes who *have* killed women. Shit's fucked.",
"This guy was/is also being marketed to kids. He is a fortnite character for christs sake. Dude needs to go.",
"Lol I’m not even a trump supporter.",
"True. Travis Scott is an asshole. But what's worst is I saw people jumping on top of the golf cart ambulance which came to get fainted people in a video. There's no humanity left there it seems.",
"Although the smooth jazz festival is likely going to have some absolutely lit mosh pits. Wear close toed shoes",
"Lol I love some 90s an early 00s rap, but fuck off with autotune and mumble rap. \nI love old school rap but cringe at new school, so am I a racist?",
"He has a history of encouraging his fans/crowds of breaking through barriers and bumrushing the stage. He was charged for twice- once in Chicago for Lola. There is a responsibility as both an entertainer and human being to stop the show when you clearly see something wrong. Acts like Pearl Jam and Linkin Park come to mind.",
"For a moment there I thought \"He just looks confused.\" Then he starts with the \"Put your middle finger in the air\" and cemented is status as a POS.",
"Everyone complaining about him but everyone in that audience is just as bad",
"While you're probably correct in the legal sense in that he will probably not be held personally responsible, I think more people are peeved off that other performers have taken the time out of their sets to make sure everyone is both safe and having a good time while Travis did not.",
"don't forget that pedo pisser R Kelly",
"imagine dying to his shitty music....",
"Thank you for the link. Such incompetence, Jesus",
"He knew there was a problem before that since fans were chanting/begging him to stop/pause the show, he just dgaf",
"I just provided you with context, my guy.",
"He has multiple song with more than a billion listens on Spotify. Just because you don't like his music doesn't mean other people will do listening to him.\n\nChris Brown fucked up Rihanna and is doing fine.",
"Well actually, no. When something major is happening off stage, a lot of performers actually pause to make sure everyone is okay, not *actively make the situation worse intentionally*.",
"As a Brit they trounce our queuing skills. Their train queue game is unmatched.",
"How do you end up playing an artist you don't care for that much you need a function like that? I got 0 Travis Scott or Chris brown on my playlist. Problem solved.",
"*I'm an artist* -- Jesus, what a scumbag..",
"Add R Kelly to the block list.",
"I mean, it was referring to the train wreck of her conservatorship, I would hope it wouldn't be difficult to connect the dots.",
"Can’t wait till he faces criminal charges on top of Civil ones",
"I can’t help but feel like the moment he said to make the ground shake and then start the music back up, was a death sentence to those kids.",
"What a POS excuse of a human being",
"It just gets worse",
"Still a paid service ..",
"Wow…..\n\nFirst off the headline is misleading but…the middle finger situation is irrelevant. Those seconds that he’s thinking about what to do next is the awful part. He tells them to put up a middle finger, probably just a hype way to start the next song, but he knows that starting that next song will make it harder for paramedics to possibly save some lives but he doesn’t give a fuck, because stopping the show could potentially hurt his money in his eyes. Fuck Travis Scott.",
"And you're defending the stunt?\n\nI think you might have suffered some brain damage when it happened, because Jesus Christ you have some bad takes here.",
"From the [Wikipedia article:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster)\n\nThe second coroner's inquests were held from 1 April 2014 to 26 April 2016.[[13]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#cite_note-auto-13) They ruled that the supporters were [unlawfully killed](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_killing) due to [grossly negligent](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_negligence) failures by police and ambulance services to fulfil their [duty of care](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_care).\n\nIt had nothing to do with queueing.",
"Ain’t no Jim Morrison.that is for sure.",
"oof",
"HUGE reddit moment",
"Yep, I can. Sadly.",
"Yeah but he knew he was about to start the next song, what he said about the middle finger is irrelevant. Those 30 seconds he spent thinking were more than likely, do I want to stop the show and hurt my career or continue it and possibly risk lives? Fuck Travis Scott",
"I've never understood the appeal of seeing a rap artist play. Ghostemane was tight because there's multiple artists collaborating on the show. There's a band. Even though he's trash, too. \n\nBut watching someone bounce around on stage with an inflated ego and ABSOLUTE SHIT VOICE does not fly with me.",
"We all know how this goes.... apology video, good will for some weeks (just pictures about charity on instagram) everybody forgets, continue your ego trip",
"Feet first! Wtf",
"Steve Aoki is buds with Dan Blizerian. Nuff said.",
"At this rate, we'll have video evidence of Travis Scott gassing gypsies in Auschwitz by the end of the week.",
"Because Hitler is dead for 76 years and he won't do any more damage tho",
"If you look in Travis Scott’s Instagram comments from last photo.. \nApple Music actually commented “🚀🚀🚀”.",
"Imagine comparing something like rage against the machine to this garbage.\n\nTravis clearly learned about rap MUSIC watching MTV, all image no substance.",
"Reminds me of Limp Bizkit at this crazy Big Day Out in Australia 2001. One girl died.\nhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zlTiUQcy8JI",
"Yeah, still sounding like a boomer dad. How bout we focus on the fact that this shit sang while people died, and he knew they were in trouble. You don't drive an ambulance through a fucking music festival unless shits really going down.\n\nCriticism of the music is shallow as fuck.",
"He specifically said Apple",
"I know its absurb, but I really want to Punch this MF'er ....",
"This dude just seems like a douchebag",
"You got it all the wrong way around.\nIt‘s not the consumers responsibility to control everyone they give money to does the right thing.\nThat‘s just physically impossible. And it is a defense strategy invented by the tobaco industry. So they can continue selling deadly products while shifting blame to the consumer.\n\nThat‘s what laws politics and government agency‘s are here for.\nIn this case there will have been some city department handing out permits after reviewing security measures. They are to blame too.\n\nThen there is surly someone responsible for security/crowd safety who should have pulled the plug.\n\nI can get that the guy on stage, hyped on adrenaline and maybe some other drugs could misjudged the situation. But there is sure someone who could have overruled him if only by turning off the music or power.\n\nBut i also read that the police or who ever decided to let the concert run to avoid an mass panic which would have lead to even more victims.\n\nI think we should wait for the investigation to finish before jumping to conclusions.\n\nBut personally i could see the guy going to jail for that shit and never getting a permit to perform somewhere again.",
"It's not that rare that medical emergencies occur at shows though, especially festivals. Sound engineers are looking at their boards, if they're going to shut down the whole festival without being told to do it's not going to be just because they heard there was an ambulance showing up.",
"I first heard of him when his in-game fortnite performance made the news. \nHis name along with the fortnite association made me think he was some child pop artist like Bieber when he started out lol",
"People dropped Morgan Wallen faster than this dude. The fact that people actually died, and he conjured up the crowd to do it, is far beyond anything we’ve seen. I will not even use Apple Music if they don’t drop him. If there is a time to cancel someone, then this is it. TS needs to be out of society for the rest of his life. The fact that he has a family makes it even sicker. How can he see what is going on and not think that is someone’s child that is being trampled on. His family had extra security, but everyone else was stomped on like trash and he was clearly ok with it. He think he is a god. Reality is about to knock him real hard and we need to hold corporation accountable to ensure it.",
"They all did, apparently.",
"Remember his song, “I care deeply about my fans well-being?”",
"Yeah i didn't realize posting shit about him never getting booked again or crossposting wholesome videos of other artists doing good things at concerts was racist lol. Except for some heavily downvited comments it all seems pretty expected",
"Yes! They were watching as it was going down and did nothing. It is not true you couldn’t tell. People watching the live stream expressed concern. At the least they should’ve pulled the stream out of respect to the families. The fact that people were dying and it was “entertainment p” is the very reason why so many are calling it demonic.",
"Well since Meta was introduced (Facebook is moving more into virtual reality), and because there is a complete agenda shift worldwide to get EVERYTHING into the digital world, concerts (and fearing attending them in reality), plays into the virtual agenda. Soon concerts, as well as everything else like school, work, etc., will be shifted COMPLETELY online. This is their transition into this virtual world. After more tragedies of real life events occur first.",
"It is sick they promoted him to kids. This is why parents have to monitor everything and not let their children be involved with probably half of what is out there.",
"You're just an ignorant oldhead, good new music that isn't either of those things is still being made but you got your head up your ass. You're a different problem entirely and one that's rather minor in the face of the blatant bias Reddit has against rap music in general, new or old.",
"Yes I know, but people give answers as if they were asking about Spotify 🤷🏻♂️",
"He’s a boxer…",
"Think about the people who had their death sealed the moment he said he wanted to make the ground shake. There were 2 layers of people on the ground at that point. People mangled with their body parts get ripped off in some cases. He totally just ended lives the moment he said that. People were stomped on for their last moments of life. TS is sick and needs to be locked away for life. He has a history of this. He clearly can’t handle being in society and needs to be put away.",
"Yes exactly I don't disagree with you at all. I just spotted an interesting disconnect with people in the above chain (not you) believing that due to \"being good at queuing\", something like this couldn't happen in Japan, when as pointed out Brits are also stereotypically good at queuing yet suffered such a horrific disaster. Even Japan has had fatal crowd crushes, even though they supposedly wouldn't behave in such way that would result to one. \n\nWe should be learning the lessons of these events and improve crowd safety and management rather than lay blame for the crowd or suggest they're at fault via their culture being worse, more rowdy, or whatever. It can happen _anywhere_ to _anyone_ which is why we need proper crowd management ans safety measures at mass events.",
"Glad the people filming laughed too. What a bunch of cunts.",
"Bro, I just think the music sucks. \nI dig classical music, but I think that the baroque era sucked. \nClassical music enthusiats will hang me for saying that but I think bach has like 2 not boring pieces for example. \nJust what I think. I am not a problem, I just really don't like this music. \nI have heard 0 new raps songs that I liked, from the past 6-7 years or so. \nI just really don't like it.",
"Why is no one talking about how Drake came on stage after the ambulance arrived? He must have seen it too…?",
"The issue is, we need an autotune rapper to make as popular music, but have a conscious. Way too may people love his music. Him being a complete pos will be overridden by money and popularity. (I.e. Donald trump)",
"Why didn't anyone in the crew think \"fk, theres an ambulance in the crowd flashing lights. Some shit probably went down. Hey Travis, pause for a sec and let this ambulance in and out.\" Either a bunch of yes men, dumb as fk or didn't give a shit.",
"I’ve only been to one show that was almost this bad. It was in Tempe and they actually had the 21+ crowd segregated from the underage/ non drinkers. I got crushed into the corner since I was at the front and I remember security was scrambling to keep the barriers in place. They ended up stopping the show to reinforce them. Also they had run out of water in the AZ heat before it got dark. I’m shocked no one died. I know my whole side was badly bruised for weeks. But any other show the band ALWAYS controls the crowd.",
"This ape looks hella confused",
"He looks like he’s drugged out of his mind",
"Wouldn’t best case be if he thought it was cop?\nLike “Yoo im a rapper f the cops”. ?",
"This seems like a perfect time to announce he is running for President",
"okay i’m not defending travis i literally deleted all his music cause of this shit, but he’s literally like top 3 most popular rappers right now and has been since like 2017. and his music is pretty unique to be honest. \n\nhe’s not gaining traction he’s losing it. just cause you only listen to green day or whatever doesn’t mean this guy isn’t popular lmao you just ignore rap music.",
"This piece of shit is known as musician to some brain dead people",
"Fuck anyone who claims that stopping the show would have made things worse. Look at how quiet everyone was just in this clip. He told them to put their middle finger up, the whole crowd did it. \nGuaranteed if he’d told everyone to make way for the ambulance and to be calm, they would have.",
"Well I mean given all the other videos where he actively does not care it’s easy to believe he isn’t stupid, he doesn’t care if people get hurt. There’s vids all over Reddit where he’s encouraging this.",
"For spotify.",
"I can understand that you are upset, but I went to many hip hop festivals in the last years and Something like this never even remotely happened. The times someone had to get carried out of the crowd, the artist paused and asked if everything was alright. One time a guy ( a german rapper iirc ) even went backstage to see if a girl was okay.\n\nWe always pick people/their stuff up if something drops. If someone wants out everyone moves.\n\nThis is a travis problem, not a hip hop problem.",
"Dune is the film Star Wars fans really wanted.",
"I second this. I’ve watched a few interviews he’s done and he has absolutely zero redeeming qualities. His answers don’t come across as thoughtful, wise or studious; he doesn’t seem affectionate, endearing, or selfless. He answers questions like a 14 year old boy and his thoughts are very much devoid of any substance. I suspect he has ADHD and has a switch disconnected somewhere. Jenner-Kardashians seem to love the weirdest dudes.",
"Get a life guys",
"The poster went on to say rock and roll is not violent and suggests maybe because artists have some feminine qualities.",
"That was ASAP Rocky I am pretty sure.",
"I have so much Travis merch gotta sell it now to one of his sick fans yk who were actually listening to him and doing everything he said even after knowing what was happening",
"If anyone needs to be \"cancelled\", it's this guy.",
"Ah ok, that's fair. Good point. :)",
"fuck travis",
"they’re just out there to have fun, but i all i see is the look of fear",
"I’m no stage dive expert but wouldn’t the correct form for a dive be laid out horizontally so you aren’t just drop kicking somebody??",
"You can dislike an artist without claiming society would be better without them. Jesus the high horse you are on...",
"YouTube Music desperately needs this",
"https://fb.watch/99Vyy_LVIr/",
"More likely a case of it actually happening to them. If you want to feel normal you normalize what happens to you.",
"Yes he was.",
"They gave directions for a Spotify feature",
"Good. Fuck this cunt",
"Why are they only showing this side\n\nhttps://fb.watch/99Vyy_LVIr/\n\nNot saying that’s he’s in the right but it’s weird that I don’t see this anywhere",
"Yikes. Gets worse and worse for dude.",
"I mean, depending on what old-school rap you liked there are most definitely people still making stuff like it. Not sure if you've listened to just mainstream shit but there is way too much variety nowadays to not find anything you like, is it a production thing or a lyrics thing?",
"what a shitty thing to die for",
"Lol this is my best friend's favourite artist and he's a physicist at Oxford....definitely not braindead. Music taste has nothing to do with intelligence",
"Also fuck everyone who followed along.",
"Can confirm.\n\n\nUnfortunately.",
"Gotcha. I have to admit I'm seeing red over this BS. I saw \"hivemind jumping over\" which seemed to me at the time like a deflect away from the artists' responsibility. A lot of people out here seem to be defending him. He might have his PR goons out on social media already. I'm sure his PR team is burning the candle at both ends, and will be, for quite some time. 1 or 2 deaths is one thing. But 8... That's just mindblowing. If he didn't have to self insure already, he absolute will be for years and years to come. Good luck finding $10+ mil bonds. Sorry for the long response it's just interesting to me since I insure events like this. He's gunna be doing smaller, shadier venues from now on I can almost bet... Either that it he's gunna have to effectively start his own insurance agency to self insure his events from now on (for any reputable venue of course. (large = reputable) I have some interesting/sad stories as a broker who insures events like this.",
"I see same situation like a Jim Jones from Jonestown. He's also was drug addict and People's of temple start dyin' and he was a emotionless",
"Imagine being this egotistical. Totally detached from the reality of the situation. Constantly focused inward no matter what's going on. Bizarre level of narcissism here.",
"One man who’s name is bigger than yours can cause a world war. Once that ball is set in motion, there’s nothing the little man can do to stop it.",
"He must ve been high and thought that was some other shizz happening",
"stoned af.. clearly visible from the slow responses and time taken to process information",
"That's not exactly a good comparison because some states like California, will force a company to take a high risk home owners policy. But I agree there are investors that will take the risk as long as it's underwritten with strict clauses that void the contract. ITs all negotiable.",
"Literally watching the death of his career. Best part is 20 years from now, he will still wonder what went wrong.",
"Thanks for your input",
"I was at Glastonbury 2016 watching Adele when someone fell ill and she stopped the set to help coordinate the crowd to part to get to the ambulance. The difference is glaring.",
"He knew what was coming and it wouldn’t surprise me if he told his crew not to interrupt him for anything. The fact no one from his team came to him and told him he had to stop is insane.",
"Travis I wish you had a voice",
"Your friend actually listen to shit music produced by this asshole? There Might be few problems in judgement too",
"The fact you'd think it's someone being sexually assaulted rather than someone just being randomly grabbed on because people are trying to not fucking die means you're mentally deranged",
"She will be one of those people who fall on love with someone on death row",
"Clearly not paid to think about the crowd's safety, obviously too dumb to realise deaths are a possibility. There's security there for a reason, it shouldn't be the dumb artist's call whether or not the show goes on. \n\nIt's admirable when they make a hard call and pause the show to help people, but Travis only did this half-arsedly here. He paused, then the middle fingers bit is just buying time so there's no awkward dead air. People acting like he's up there knowing and not caring people are gonna die",
"That's oddly specific.",
"Look when I was younger I started listening to rock etc. Then I stumbled upon 90s rap. \nI fished out more popular artists and more popular songs and after some listening (I am from europe so that was extremely different from what we heard here on the radio) I started to like it. And went deeper. \nI tried to connet with modern rap, but after searching up drake (don't like him, dunno why, the sung rap doesn't do it for me), kanye (his music isn't any good, but apperantly revolutionary? So I kinda understand the hype ) and then travis scott (autotune, never liked it, especially hated it in pop music) etc.\nThen I searched popular rap songs. \nThe most popular rap song at the time was gucci gang. Fucking ear rape for me. I gave up. \nAfter a while, I hear the old town road. \nOld town road from lil nas X is a god damn banger. And I am willing to die on that hill. He is the only modern rap artists I kinda dig.\nI just don't wanna listen thru 20 mumble rap/autotune/ songs about getting stacs and pussy just to discover 1 song I maybe like.",
"God I wish I could have a cut of whatever lawsuit happens. \n\nFuck this guy and his cult ass persona.",
"Wtf happened? Im out of the loop",
"You'd be surprised how many people at Oxford listen to shit music, one thing I can say for sure is that music taste has nothing to do with intelligence",
"Same buddy, I'm still only positive that he is a type of musician.",
"My boomer dad and mother never criticized my musical tastes, they just didn't want it blaring. I had four older brothers that are also family. They're not boomers but they critized my music. \n\n\nIf people have their reasons for criticizing music, I'll allow it. Giving your viewpoints with reasons is exactly the opposite of shallow.",
"ego of a dickhead",
"Ok, at this point I should be too afraid to ask, but who tf ist that and why is he such an arsehole, apparently?",
"There's been enough deaths at concerts over the decades for organisers to know this. Shit gets deadly, pull the mic, take the artist off stage, try avoid riots",
"That's a lot of processing. An then he comes up with this. He got a lot of fans I guess - we're doomed.",
"I took their point as more like why aren’t the people treating this show like the other shows I’ve been to? \n\nThe reason is Travis Scott basically.",
"Take that Travis cock out of your mouth and realise what’s going on in real life. Fuck you. He’s responsible for numerous deaths, and can’t even pretend to cry on a fucking video. Eat a dick.",
"What Chris Brown do🤷🏾♂️",
"Since I don't see anyone else linking it, [this is the video (!NSFL!)](https://youtu.be/nnul_HDvXMM). It's not exactly gory but the audio and visuals are disturbing in a way that might stay with you, so use your judgement on whether to watch it or not (or maybe mute the audio). It certainly gave me a new respect for fire and crowd safety in terms of how quickly it escalates.",
"They probably talking about the Travis Scott Fortnite skin, not the in app purchase debacle",
"You can look up what his previous security thinks of him and what they have to say about the kind of energy he promotes at his shows",
"You’re a clown. Fuck off.",
"Ah, thanks for the context!",
"I'll attest that every genre has its variety. I mean just look at how the metal has subdivided into 10 subgenres. \n\nIt is the culture and general content of Trap that I find tarnish any respect I could have for the genre. With punk and metal while some are just in it to be \"hard\" and \"edgy\", the majority are counter-culture people who just want to freely express themselves without judgment. \n\n\nWhile there is probably some degree of the previous, has more often than not promoted a culture of ignorance and violence more than just simple bravado and confidence. For example the whole \"wildin\" and \"ragin\" thing. Just an excuse to act dumb and belligerent. It doesn't matter that the songs don't have lyrical depth, it is that they promote a culture of toxicity and disregard of compassion for others. It is the \"imma get mine and fuck everyone else\" mentality that I just cannot abide.\n\n\nPart of what contributed to the scale of the Astroworld tragedy was the culture of the fans. Noone cared that people were injured. People even were going off saying that it is just what happens at a festival and those that are complaining are soft.\n\n\nIf you can recommend songs and content that don't advocate for this kind of behavior in the genre, I will gladly give them a try.",
"Travis encouraged his fans to rush the stage at his concert. People got crushed and died. And during the whole time the paramedics tried to save people, he didn't give a fuck, kept singing, and considered them an annoyance.",
"I thought the same thing. How can you have kids and not see people getting hurt at your shows and not think how that is someone’s child. That shows how sick he is in the head. Also, this man is so angry and evil. There are tons of videos of him encouraging people to hurt themselves and others. His home should seriously be investigated. He flies off the handle so easily. I would be shocked if there was not abusive towards his child or a pet. He has no patience. I would be willing to bet he is abusive at home. ALL the signs are there.",
"The only microphone he should ever be heard on again should be the one in his court hearing for manslaughter",
"A person is rational. People are dumb.",
"Anyone got a link?",
"Travesty Scott",
"Super impractical in some cases where LiveNation owns the largest concert venue in the area.",
"Yeah. Way too much. Do you know math???",
"So you haven't heard anything from Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole, Lupe Fiasco, Run the Jewels, Clipping, Saba, or any of the dudes from Griselda Records? As I said, there is way more to rap than what you've brought up, hell there is more to rap than what I've brought up. If all you're finding is mumble rap autotune you aren't looking right, and there are tons of lyricists that talk about more than money and women. Mainstream radio rap isn't all there is to it.",
"Where do these people come from? I know nothing about her and neither does anyone I know. I wonder if she pays people, even fake bots , to follow her. She doesn’t even do anything. .",
"That's the whitest shit I've read so far in these stupid threads. Y'all are embarrassing.",
"He def is",
"Maroon 5's right?",
"These threads are just brimming with barely contained racism.",
"You're a human thanks for reacting empathetically.",
"God forbid a dying person gets medical care and interrupts his show. Woe is Travis. I’m a paramedic and can’t imagine dealing with that shit.",
"Unplug the computer!",
"and no one will actually care",
"It is selfish people brought there kids there, including his own.",
"No no, people just don’t like to get kicked in the face by people jumping off stages. And if you do, give me the address of your local stage and I will GLADLY jump off and kick you in the mouth.",
"Man, fuck Travis scott.",
"And not that cheap to be honest..",
"That’s absolutely horrific",
"I think the people responding just misunderstood, they responded as if u/ssracer was talking about Spotify but I believe they were talking about Apple Music.",
"So when Alec Baldwin kills someone accidentally no one cares but when Travis Scott dose it its all his fault? Kinda reeks of hypocrisy.\n\nBefore you downvote me into oblivion know that Travis Scott was not in charge of security. People pass out at concerts all the time and someone who is dead looks like someone who is passed out. Its not that unreasonable to think that he just didn't know what was going on.",
"He said to make the ground shake after the middle finger thing.",
">I have observed, in my many years of concert attendance\\*, that without fail, the heavier the metal music being played at the show... the kinder the audience members are to one another. This includes inside the mosh pit.\n\nBeen going to metal shows for 25 years and this is just a load of bullshit metal fans like to tell themselves. There are shit fans at some metal shows just as there are at some rap shows and I've seen more scrapping at metal shows than I have at rap ones.\n\nGot punched in the face for absolutely no reason while I was minding my business watching the music at a fucking King Diamond show of all places. Slayer/Pantera show was pretty violent too. And my friend nearly passed out from the crowd surge crushing him against the gate when we saw Priest. Meanwhile just last year a big dude pulled me up off the floor when I tripped in a pit at a JPEGMAFIA show.",
"Assuming Reddit won’t die, you won’t die or your account isn’t banned in 70 years I suppose.",
"Yeah I know I tried kendrick and J.cole just didn't click. \nLook its like that, if you don't like mainstream you not gonna go deeper. \nLike if you dislike the most popular jazz songs, why would you dig deeper and look into more songs to find a few that you like? Its like, there is so much good music, I don't have time and energy to go thru hours of rap music to find an artists or music that sticks with me. Sometimes good music just comes up and you try it (like I did with lil nas x) and you like it. Most of the rap music that came up didn't stick with me, so it is what it is. \nBut back to the originam argument, I for sure ain't rasicst becouse I don't like most modern rap.",
"I hope I never die in public and am filmed. 😢 Those poor victims.",
"What'd Chris Brown do now?",
"If I could Thanos snap the whole carcrashians out of existence, I'd snap faster than Tobuscus.",
"Dude clearly didn't grasp how bad it was. Obviously pretty fucking stupid on his part, but people trying to make it out like he had a full understanding of everything and laughed it off and continued are full of shit. Live Nation or whoever else was in charge of the security should have been the ones to pull the plug, not the guy on stage.",
"One attribute that makes rap stand apart from the rest when it comes to morality; is the overall treatment of women. There is a serious problem in rap music regarding the way it dehumanizes women. Although there may be a few small number of exceptions, it is largely present in 99% of songs. It’s is disgusting and needs to be called out. You cannot even listen to a song without women being completely sexualized and degraded. It is a serious problem that must be dealt with. The violence and agreeability with fans is a serious issue.",
"I never heard of him so can anyone explain to me why would he hold middle finger for ambulance",
"This was a sacrifice",
"Who’s this guy? Some sort of shouter from a dystopian reality?",
"Having your name on the festival doesn't mean you're in charge of logistics.",
"Not a chance, his wife is worth close to a billion dollars. Hard to believe someone from the Kardashian cesspool is worth so much but she is.",
">He even was accepted into undergrad and dropped out after a few years.\n\nNot really making a good argument here.",
"TIL you cant be dumb if you are middle class and your mom works for Apple",
"Consumers can only choose from the options that exist, and live nation is basically a monopoly from what I understand",
"I'm largely fine with people not liking rap, but reddit has a hate boner for rap that is not shared with any other genre. People will go out of their way to state some \"mumble crapper\" bs and incredibly harsh hyperbolic statements regarding the genre. Rap is largely populated by black musicians that talk about black lifestyle/issues/fantasies, so I get that a lot of non-black people can't relate to it, but when people go out of their way to spew vitriol at a genre they are incredibly willfully ignorant about, I can't help but think that it's racially motivated. This Travis Scott situation has just given those individuals a soapbox to share their ignorance without argument.",
"Fuck this guy.",
"Some of the nicest people I've met in my life are metalheads. Would literally give you their last dollar or shirt off their back to make sure you'd be ok",
"Hate to break it to you, but I was recently at a concert where there were plenty of Trump shirts and let’s go Brandon chants and no one was killed. It was an outdoor venue and about the same amount of people. There were even confederate flags…imagine that. There weren’t just white people wearing trump clothes either…I saw Indians and black people too. I feel the security and crowd control was inadequate, but despite this, no one was rowdy. There were no fights, no pushing, or anything similar. All people helping each other and looking out for one another, as concert always used to be, and for the most part still are, in the south.",
"People got stamped and crushed on and slowly died at a concert whilst artist continue to perform",
"Thats messed up. And the guy actually went \"i wanna make thid motherfuckin ground shake\" when he knew multiple people just got trampled and were in need of medical attention ON THE GROUND??? Thats so fucked holy shit",
"That honestly made my stomach drop, I can't imagine how terrifying that must have been for those people",
"Does that actually matter? That was some random that did it on his own free will...",
"Yeah I get that, it was like that thru the history of music tho. Starting with gospel, then jazz, then rap.",
"That might be the first time the statement has ever been made in the history of the world.",
"his music is shit anyways",
"What a dumb fck\nAlso why does he have so many fans. Other than him being a dangerous lunatic, his tracks from all those videos are flaming hot garbage.",
"I know people who were victims of abuse that were so concerned about this cycle they refused to have children. They were too afraid they would not be able to break the cycle any other way.\n\nFucking tragic as I know them to be good people. One thing I've experienced in my own life, it's very hard to break out of cycles. So I understand where they're coming from.",
"Experience in live sound and large venues here.\nI WANT to give travis benefit of the doubt cause I can’t imagine him actually wanting this. In the vid he looks hella worried.\n\nHe probably had the production/stage manager in his monitor tell him to keep going w the show. That’s how it works. The performer performs, and in a high budget, huge production like this, you have to stick to your job and trust. I see all the vids circulating of other artists stopping the show, but honest to god those venues work differently than a huge festival.\n\nI truly believe this horrible event falls on management, live nation, and the people responsible for the actual logistics of the show.. there’s no way Travis had knowledge or control of those factors.",
"I guarantee you Travis doesn't even fucking like his fans. He wants to think of himself as a gangster and shit, but his fans are a bunch of skinny white teenagers.",
"Because his whole fucking existence is a fragile narcissistic wet dream and anything that interrupts that is something that he not only can't process, but actively attacks. This trash heap of a human facade thinks he's a man and has plenty of \"yes men\" around him to tell him he's a man, but when the shit hits the fan, he mentally collapses back into his angry child core and starts lashing out at everything outside of his control.\n\nHe controlled that crowd. He could have got them to make a path. Instead...",
"The best drummer in the boxing industry of course",
"Look at the post histories of some of the people with the strongest opinions on this. It's pretty enlightening. These people don't care about the deaths, they're excited.",
"Apple makes you listen to songs you didn't pick?",
"Lots of them in here too.",
"Not a frequent visitor to r/HilariaBaldwin huh?",
"He said [\"NAW AND WE STILL SNEAKING THE WILD ONES IN\"](https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/travis-scott-deletes-tweet-that-aged-very-poorly-after-astroworld-festival-tragedy-news.142434.html). A bit different from \"He directly told his audience to rush the event and not listen to security or emergency services, verbatim.\" Isn't it?\n\n> You need to do research\n\nWell that aged poorly.",
"and all the sheep listen and do as told.\n\nclassic.",
"I'm not defending him but my faith in humanity is more shaken by the THOUSANDS of crowd members that ate it up instead of saying, \"that's fucked up.. we should make sure that person is okay.\"",
"Eminem was BIG even in my country when I was a child/preteen and I'm on the edge of Millenial-Gen Z generations.",
"8 people died and everyone here is trying to use it as an excuse to try and take someone down because they don't like his music and image. Dude you're replying to is one of the few being reasonable, the rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves.",
"Why these ppl not in jail?",
">He also encourages people to storm the stage, break down barriers, and overload the concert population by jumping fences…\n\nI'm still waiting to see that video....",
"travis is GOATED boi",
"I read the first half of the title and I was like “oh well at least-“ and then I saw the second half 💀",
"Millennias turning into boomers in real time",
"What a prick. He should be more than sued.",
"Absolutely",
"Tell me you're white without telling me you're white",
"i dont have either so whats ur point",
"Are you under the impression that Travis Scott is \"the camera guy\"?",
"Garbage human, garbage music, garbage culture, garbage crowd.",
"Live Nation is, in addition to being a responsible party to this incident, just a general massive cancer on music to begin with. Let them burn.",
">Only a narcissist \n\nY'all need a new armchair diagnosis. When you call everyone a narcissist or sociopath it stops having any meaning.",
"I thought the consensus was that they thought it was a police car at first huh but I guess reddit has amnesia sometimes. There's a million other things to be upset about what happened but that's not really it.\n\nNext week people will claim they were actually performing satanic rituals.",
"Kylie Jenner's baby daddy",
"It's not about the karma, it's about bringing down someone they don't like.",
"The fact that it will, is a true testament to how fucked our society is. People will still worship this degenerate for years to come.",
"Most of these rappers are assholes and their fandom glorify this behaviour as cool. Only in these kind of moments it catches the eyes of other people, who call those rappers out for being an asshole.",
"He's very famous outside of \"the west\" as well. He's top 10 biggest hiphop artists of the last 10 years. I say this as someone from not the west. He's continuously outsold the biggest rappers. Don't know how much bigger he could be",
"Who the fuck puts ads on a video like this?! Travis Scott fans I guess.",
"Hon hon, c'est Bretagne, chienne",
"Wow. I dont know what's worse, the racists inthe thread or the idiots defending TS with these extreme mental gymnastics",
"YO LETS GOOOO!!!",
"I was watching this thinking oh maybe he's getting them to put their hands in the air to create some sort of space for the medics. Then he says \"I want to make this ground shake\" and realised I was trying too hard to see the good in someone who clearly only gives a shit about his ego.",
"Lizzo is a big disgusting mess of a human.",
"Lotta different corps got those sponsorships in before he became a liability",
"r/iamatotalpieceofshit",
"Im confused,what happened exactly?",
"RemindMe! 70 years\n\nWe’ll need to all go out for drinks in the metaverse",
"I think some of this anger is misplaced",
"Used to take klonopin to help with work + school. Went to class early one afternoon. Just the single class that day, but two hours long. Sat through the whole thing, no problem. \n\nGot home, do whatever it was I was doing for the day. Probably took a short nap. Evening rolls around and I panic a bit because I thought I'd missed class. Completely forgotten those two hours, the search for parking (which was probably another 15min) and the drive there.\n\nNeedless to say, they didn't actually help much with school.",
"Gave Rhianna a career",
"Chris brown is pure class and talent",
"Not just the artists, either. I went to a few Metal Festivals and people just sort of look out for each other. There's your fair share of assholes, sure, but I distinctly remember a few times where a moshpit started near me and there would always be a beefy dude who placed himself between me and the pit, making sure I wasnt hit. I'm a rather scrawny and not particularly strong woman so it was definitely appreciated lol",
"Stop posting this clown, I never heard of him before and now there's posts of him on the frontpage daily. It's giving him more widespread attention.",
"I don’t know his music and I don’t think he’ll be remembered for his music, his legacy will be about today.",
"Everything he did is a hallmark of someone who doesn’t care about his fans. Total disregard for safety. \n\nAnd I can’t speak for everyone but the fat, bright red cherry on this shit mountain is the fact that people died to the sound of ***such god awful fucking music***.\n\nMaybe I’m just old or something but even before all this shit came out I thought he was a terrible fuckin artist. I’ve heard cat sex more appeasing to the ears than his songs.",
"Geezus thats terrifying. Read an account from the young lady who got on the camera plat and tried to stop the show. Probably 3 deep down there. Her account will just scare the shit out of you.",
"Oh! I know the answer to this one. You see, this guy is a shit head and a terrible person. Not a good role model at all.",
"Hearing that girl screaming for her mom, hearing the frantic attempts to get anyones attention, seeing the pain and terror on their faces, and the poor kid at the end just completely out of himself. I hope all of the clips, all of the audio, everything is used against this absolute piece of shit that deserves zero of anything he's gotten so far.",
"You can always bet on humans' stupidity (& immorality)",
"And Guns & Roses are typically known for being pieces of shit at their concerts. That alone speaks VOLUMES",
"This happened to me but an entire week. Went to school, went to work, paid rent, went grocery shopping. Didn’t remember shit just came to a week later",
"At the very least, it’s manslaughter.",
"I guess the ambulance was racist",
"How is 2pac gone and we’re left with this fuckwit POS!",
"Honestly that's the worst part here. That there were that many sheep there who would flip off an ambulance trying to reach someone to help.",
"Cool gloves! Must help if he needs to assault someone.",
"Exactly",
"Yeah I was at a few shows with my mates who are all over 6 foot, we always looked out for smaller people in the pits. It's a somewhat unspoken rule that seems common amongst the bigger people at gigs.",
"Susan?",
"How about people get smarter and start thinking whom they follow? I mean look at who his chick is…",
"He won’t face jail time, kidding yourself if you think as much.",
"Fell countless times. Never stayed on the ground more than a sec. There's always been a dude twice my size to pick me up in less time than it took me to type this.",
"Quicksand doesn't work the same way it does in movies. It's more dense than the human body, so you can't sink in it. The only risk is potentially getting your feet stuck and not being able to pull them out due to suction.",
"Cringe",
"Plus I’m pretty sure this was after he saw someone pass out up front, called for security/medics to come, and told people to take a step back. So he was already aware that at least one fan had been injured (possibly died?) and indicated that he knew people were packed way too tight because he told them to take a step back. We don’t know to what extent, if any, he’d gotten additional information at this point about how dangerous things were getting/how many fans were injured, but regardless he knew it was somewhat out of hand and still instigated the crowd to flip off the ambulance. (It’s possible he just saw the lights and thought it was a cop car and was all “fuck the police”, but I’m guessing he had a good enough vantage point to see it was an ambulance. \n\nEverything about this incident is fucked. The chief of Houston PD warned him before the show about the crowd because they’d broken down barriers earlier in the day and rushed into the venue. There’s at least one confirmed incident of a medic being injected in the neck with heroin or fentanyl and being revived with Narcan (and anecdotally there were supposedly multiple instances of that happening). At one point Travis is asking for security to help with a passed out fan, and then used what he was saying to transition into the intro of his next song while the fan’s lifeless body is being carried out (he was standing on a tower at this point and almost certainly could see what was happening… there’s video footage of it that’s really disturbing). \n\nNot only were there plenty of indications beforehand that should’ve led to some form of preventative measures being implemented, but the show also went on far too long, which almost certainly resulted in more deaths and injuries. I have to assume multiple people running the event became aware of the severity of what was happening and they still let the show go for over an hour before finally pulling the plug.",
"Maybe this will discourage people from idolizing narcissistic sociopaths! Meanwhile Chris Brown still on tour. I don't know when it became fashionable to idolize people who don't resemble any semblance of the values humans at their best can be but I'm over it.",
"And still nobody is talking about how the audience is also reacting to it. They don’t care the ambulance is there and they found it funny but of course, Americans are incredibly stupid.",
"Maybe know how to spell her name correctly before spouting opinions on her mental health?",
"Literally Travis Scott's apology video",
"Travis Scott? More like, Travis Cringe.",
"Yeah it's not the healthiest worldview, but it's important to remember how many stupid people are out there. A professor developed a whole theory and laws on stupidity and he said that stupid people are more powerful than any government, corporation or organization because they inflict damage without the need of a leader. That stuck with me.",
"This Travis Scott's a real Fuck Ass. He gets sued down to broke again so he learns humility again.\n\nSounds like his fans are pretty much the same.",
"Yep, he was lucky to be alive. He was smart, anyone who hesitated got stuck in that pile seconds later. Really that video is up there in insanely bad situation level. Just discussing this on another sub too. There are some amazing documentaries on this. I was obsessed with this case for a while after seeing that footage I had to understand what happened. A few people actually survived at the bottom of that pile. Their accounts are unbelievably harrowing. Most were badly burned and literally held hands with other right next to them being burned alive.",
"Agreed. I was about to go on a rant about mumble rap and how there’s no melody or rhythm to it, but I had to listen to Mr. Scott before I destroyed him and what seems to be his popular song, Sicko Mode, ain’t half bad. So now I’m sad I can’t rant about it. Although I have a sneaking suspicion that may be the exception....",
"Ok boomer",
"Holy...I didn’t even realize this was possible.",
"No, you don't understand. You're not allowed to dislike any rappers or else you're racist",
"This reads like something out of /r/iamverysmart",
"Yeah so this is why we should pick our \"idols\" carefully",
"Now he mentioned he will pay for the funerals etc. How many days have past , how many people have started to do just that? This was clearly a way to maybe sway the public back into his favor. I am not saying he might not be shocked by what happened , and now is realising that very few are on his side, but it is a PR move. It won't be on us to say he did it because he wanted to or because he felt forced to, but personally I think it's something he should be held accountable for. Throwing money at people is not the only solution and then done!",
"Evil nation don't you mean? They like to play on words",
"I hope someone beats the shit out of him relentlessly and stomps on his chest so he can feel what many others did that night.",
"I'm not trying to defend Travis Scott, but look at his face after he claims there's an ambulance in the crowd. \n\nHe's clearly deliberating something, and he also happens to have an earpiece on. Chances are, he's being told to continue the show and pretend that nothing happened. \n\nelse why would he even point that stuff out in the first place?",
"If you saw this from a different camera angle you would see that the “organizer” you think he is talking too is about to dive into the crowd feet first onto the heads of the people in the front rows when the bass drops.\n\nClearly they cared about the health and safety of the audience… /s",
"He is a fucking narcissist. Has to make it about him. The moment the attention goes to something else he feels the need to do something about it.",
"Fucking mouth breathing cunt.",
"Mf needs to close his mouth before all the flies go in.",
"Gotta concider the kind of people going to these shows. Picture Trump on a stage telling people to do stupid acts...",
"Are you actually going to pretend rap isn’t an angry genre of music in general? Yeah metal is probably angrier, but it’s the only other genre that is and it’s way less popular\n\nWhether producing “angry” music is bad or not is a separate debate, but let’s operate in reality rather than gaslighting about angry pop music or whatever",
"What a piece of shit",
"“Huh, that’s random, why does it have so may upvotes and awards- OH MY GOD NOOOOO.”",
"I don't think it's dumb. He didn't look clueless. He looked like he didn't give a fuck. Hence the middle finger and continued performance. \n\n I think he also thought there wouldn't be any repercussions because he's *Travis Scott* and a lot of his fans were still feeding his ego.",
"No one had their rifle on them. What a shame",
"> Not that he isn’t liable.\n\nLaw enforcement also likely killed someone through negligence. I think her last name was Rodriguez? \n\nThere's a video of them pulling a girl out on a stretcher, except the total morons don't even support the end of the stretcher while pulling it off of the support. Because of this, the girl slides off the stretcher and falls onto the ground, head first. \n\nRIP",
"Put ur middle finger up in about to start. And don’t tell me Kylie isn’t implicated she posted a story with the ambulance so obviously in it",
"Yeah it was very eye opening and scary. Do not mess around with benzos",
"His braindead fans probably don't care in the slightest about what he did, but I somehow doubt he will ever get a bigger sponsor than McDonalds or Fortnite for the rest of his career.",
"Have you seen this same moment in the video Op posted from the other camera angle where it shows the two people on stage with him jump off the stage into the heads of the people in the front rows?\n\nWas that the fault of the organizers too?\n\nOr perhaps a further indication that the artist doesn’t give a fuck about the safety of his audience?",
"90210 is my favorite Travis scott song, and your comment is pretty ironic because the super popular music style that you described was largely pioneered by Travis scott, and the industry has molded towards his style in the last few years. Obviously none of this excuses his actions during the concert, but he was one of the biggest influences on hip hop/rap over the last decade.",
"It can happen anywhere where there are human beings packed in certain density with certain conditions that will lead to crowd surge. It has far less to do with culture and more to do with physics and crowd psychology.",
"Don’t hit them in their wallet. Put the company directors in jail.",
"Many, many performers do routinely stop shows though. It isn't without precedent. I've seen it many times personally (practically every gig I've ever been to), but over the last few days there are literally compilations being posted of bands taking time out to make sure their audience is alright. And we're not talking about minor pauses here and there, we're talking bands that threaten to or *do* end their performances entirely if crowds won't calm down, 30 minutes out of a couple of hour sets being taken, and so on. This is before you consider his involvement outside of the context of a performer in promoting the event, and also his other actions taken on the day that can be considered irresponsible.\n\nHe did not need to be a mind reader, he just needed to not be a dick.",
"Unfortunately it's one thing or another.\n\nIf people all somehow stay calm, you have a best case scenario... but the problem is that once a rush happens, staying calm is no longer an option. It is survival of the fittest.",
"It is not really a \"graphic\" video, but it is upsetting. The cameraman was one of the first people to realize something was wrong. He started heading for the exit before most people realized a fire had started and made it out. The rest of the video is him outside the building. Within 1 minute and 30 seconds of the fire starting, smoke is pouring out of the building and the crowd is trapped in the doorway. It is terrifying. \n\nThe rest of the video is helplessness. The camera man and others can't do anything, although they try. The next 12 minutes are smoke, flames, screaming, and then silence. \n\nIt is an interesting video to see how these situations can happen, how quickly they can happen, and how crowd behavior can lead to death. It's also very upsetting. I think it is worse than the Astroworld videos, personally, so if you are having trouble with them, I would not suggest watching it. \n\nThat said, I think there is merit in reading about the event and reading analyses of it, and understanding what happened. It may save your life if you are ever unfortunate enough to find yourself in a crowded building and a fire starts.",
"If 17 year old Billie Eilish(at the time) can be mature and responsible enough to stop her concert for one fan passing out, a 30 year old should have no problem with that. It irks me to no end for people to keep defending him",
"Oh wow. Words fail me at this point this makes me terrified and want to cry.",
"Ppl panicing and that one guy gropes that womans boobs…",
"Stupid people only exist because stupid people enable them. Donald degenerate Trump is exactly the same way. He wouldn’t be relevant if it wasn’t for a cult of anti-American degenerates not too different from the degenerates in this audience",
"Saw an article quoting an expert in this kind of crowd situation saying he often testifies, the case gets settled out of court, case sealed and then no lessons are taken out of it. Rinse and repeat.",
"https://youtu.be/q3iXrayrsHk",
"Ima reply again cause I got downvoted, but it needs to be stated. Y’all have fucking human trash levels of delusions. You guys are collectively worse than Trump and Travis Scott. Actually, sick humans and I hope you all collectively get downvoted in your lives and never know any truths, for being such worthless critical thinkers. The lot of you are a joke and the reason shit like astroworld happens. You can all act like you’re above this but you’re the same trash that creates mobs like the one at astroworld. So, respectively, you all can go collectively fuck yourselves and your misplaced perceptions of politics in poor contexts.",
"Hip hop culture isn’t that great in general tbh",
"I’m a Lama",
"Travis Scott already did that Fortnite concert soo",
"Ur silly:)",
"People that know these things are already saying that it was because of the people not knowing how to do crowd control. That there were missing barriers and a lack of other measures that are meant to keep this from being 50k people in a pit, to smaller groups.\n\nIt's a bit like traffic jams that happen because one car slows down, only humans are soft and what happens in those situations is that people keep pushing and are completely unaware of the issues at the front.\n\nI've always wondered though if you couldn't crowd surf people out of this. These spaces get so packed, that people are unable to either raise or lower their arms, rendering them as helpless as if they'd fallen into a crevasse, but that's also the best possibility for crowd surfing someone out..",
"Reddit the land of pseudo-intellectuals , dont act like you dont consume all this low IQ garbage.",
"I can understand why some people are hostile when it comes to the police. \n \n...but ambulances? \n \nDo they also hate fire fighters? I don't get it.",
"Ur the bezt purson around!",
"I heard of the Pearl Jam accident before my first Roskilde, and crowd management improved a lot after that. This is basically ancient knowledge by now, it just shouldnt happen.\n\nAs for different genres showing more respect etc its bullshit and can happen everywhere if you fuck up on planning. Love parade 😢",
"Bro I was with you until you made this comment, you seem a little too emotionally charged",
"[Here](https://youtu.be/q3iXrayrsHk), I couldn’t make it past the first question, how can you have a kid together but not know her dogs names??",
"What a hypocritical comment \n\nIt is not Alec Baldwin’s responsibility to check firearms before they are used in a scene. That is the armorers job. You’re willing to blame Travis Scott’s security But you won’t blame the armorer on baldwins set. \n\nThe fuck outta here",
" That part where the cameraman films the backside and you can hear the screams of dozens trapped",
">He looked out saw the ambulance took a good 30 seconds to think about what to do next\n\nhis handlers were telling him to continue the concert like normal. Through his earpiece--that's my bet",
"I’m gonna say it…. FUCK TRAVIS SCOTT",
"this is true.\nSean Penn and Charlie Sheen flip burgers all day, it’s unbelievable.\n\n/s",
"It's been clearly demonstrated by now beyond any doubt that some people want to worship people who suck.",
"Dude come off it Reddit is like those super sheltered white kids that get uncomfortable around black people but post about #blm every week on their social media. Like yeah it’s racist but in a different way…\n\nThe reason Reddit is throwing a fit is because kids (which seems to go up to like 35) get mad at fucking everything and have no fucking understanding of nuance, and this is the latest popular thing to get pissy about. If there’s an excuse to get off on being morally superior to some celebrity that has lost social media support, they will take it hungrily, facts and details be damned",
"The big issue is that this was his event. So there's no one there to tell him to shut the fuck up, he's got a vested interest in keeping things going, and is already a fucking asshole.\n\nBasically you had Bezos up on the stage doing calculations about how fucked things needed to be for him to enter damage control.",
"Mr. Mojo Risin",
"What a piece of shit.",
"CAn Ted Cruz take him with Texas when they secede?",
"Is he gonna be charged for manslaughter",
"Even when I was on a high dosage (and taking more than recommended in a lot of cases), I never completely lost more than a few hours at a time. And it's not like I was blacked out or unaware of my actions at the moment. It's just that most things wouldn't stick in long term memory past maybe 16 hours.\n\nThere were a couple instances where a friend would be talking to me about some get together or conversation from the night before, and I'd just have to assume they were recounting it properly even though I had been right there with them.\n\nWith weed, your short term memory suffers but you'll still be able to at least vaguely recall things if someone/something specifically reminds you about them. With benzos, that's often not the case. Even if it was just the night before - hell, even if you have an HD video to jog your memory - sometimes there's just nothing there to retrieve.",
"What a horrifying experience, no one should have to go through that. Thank you for sharing this story - I’ll remember it.",
"Well now I know it's not just his music that's trash",
"Especially when Britney is far and away the more popular spelling.",
">I mean, the problem would be a few seconds later when he starts singing and telling the audience he wants to make the ground shake.\n\nI think he was ordered to continue the concert as if nothing happened. He's wearing an earpiece, and he looks like he's concentrating on something for 30 seconds.",
"Bury him, he's a totalpieceofshit.",
"He is a dick and so is everyone out there defending this self centred idiot",
"i was thinking Big Sean... which is equally as bad.",
"Yeaaah literally posted elsewhere in here that I’ve been in this situation and I was one of the ones who defused it. Good luck with those anger issues though.",
"Then don’t listen to them?",
"Quite a few on this thread are stretching hard to remove him from any responsibility.",
"His gold teeth give him a speech impediment. I actually couldn’t listen to him speak all day.",
"He had a chance to stop too. He could have told the crowd to stick their middle fingers up, since apparently that got them listening.\n\nThen from there he can start directing the crowd. Literally doing nothing would have been better than what he did.",
"what a gimp",
"I cant stand the dude and i think hes a pretentious tool.\n\n \n\n\nHes a talented producer who clearly knows something about music theory. You cant just turn on a computer and moan into a mic, autotune it, then add samples of yourself barking on top and have a solid beat. Travis knows what hes doing, even if most of the time he just (allegedly) steals beats and is just a professional dirtbag.\n\nEdit: I saw the stealing beats thing somewhere that looked kinda reputable. I dont know if its true or not.",
"I literally only know him from mcdonalds, and now this shitshow of a concert. Glad to see i'm not missing much. RIP to the people who passed from this.",
"[What did you just say?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JkrJUAg8aI)",
"The outrage will probably just fuel his notoriety, and he'll continue to make music and end up being more successful. There will be no meaningful consequences.\n\nI hope I'm wrong, but I have very very low expectations.",
"Exactly the kind of person that would bet on squidgame. Rich and senseless to reality",
"I can give 0 shits about the tragedy that occurred when it comes down to what’s occurring in this instant, it is not my place to overly empathize to look cool/kind. Just because something terrible occurred doesn’t give the right for all of you input fallacious rhetorics on your political beliefs. Even more so why you shouldn’t. If you think being apart of a tragedy makes you special, than you can get in line.",
"It does come down to money.\n\nInsurance money.\n\nInsurance companies will jack the premiums on any venue that he's performing at in the future. Venues won't book him for the cost unless his fans start paying ludicrously higher ticket prices.\n\nHe can still release music just fine, but most musicians make their cash touring nowadays, so yeah, he'll feel it.",
"Where's that cancel culture shit when ya need them",
"Did anyone expect better? That scene and he is 100% vacuous bullshit",
"And isn't it cringey that he knows next to nothing about the mother of his child? Like, how hard is it to learn a few simple facts about your partner? Learn their dogs' names for God's sake. That honestly seems like the least you could do for someone who just endured 9 months of pregnancy so you could have a child",
"Said another loser reddit dude?",
"No idea who this bloke is but after everyrhing reddit has informed me of, fuck him.",
"You might want to edit or delete the original comment you made with the incorrect, dangerous, medical advice.",
"Fuck that guy and all of you \"hip hop\" apologists. Save a very few artists like the roots NO rapper is a musician. They eschew and glorify misogyny, violence and drugs. If the black community wants to glorify these things, which they do, then live with the consequences. - from Oakland.",
"Yeah, and the premium they have to pay for any Travis Scott performances going forward is going to go up.",
"Well can't defend that. I feel bad for giving him the benefit of the doubt when I heard about it initially, then it just kept pouring out how irresponsible he was/is. Like Texas needed another reason to get shat on. Damn",
"I agree. He’s very unintelligent. In this video, you can see the wheels turning as he tries to piece together what’s happening. Until he finally just gives up.",
"30 seconds of a dude just barely recognising an ambulance and saying the word over and over. \n\n… he seems like a toddler giving a rap performance.",
"Interesting that your experience took place in Houston as well.",
"he verbally abused official photographer of the concert on stage and in the other case he stopped concert to tell his fans to beat up a 17 year old who stole his shoe",
"It's way more racist to act like you think all black people are a hivemind that universally love trap music, tell me your a white suburban trap fan without telling me.",
"Please let that if you wear glasses, Travis Scott does not like you. You're just a nerd in his eyes.",
"Haha yup that’s the one. People were pushing like motherfuckers and I was getting worried someone was gonna fall and get trampled. Worked out ok though thankfully.\n\nPart of it was being able to shout loud enough to be heard. “Yo we can’t move, you’re crushing people. Stop pushing!” If we were inside the tent with music blasting, there’s no way.",
"damn im never seeing travis scott but i hope my crush wasn't there.",
"Thug is just a way to say the N word without getting banned",
"So, anyone in any uniform is someone who should be fucked by the standard of this genius ass?",
"Hilarious how Travis Scott is being crucified as if he was the only person negligent here.",
"Two people come up to him on stage and he says. “Yeah all that, all that.” Which I read as, whatever, all that noise — and he shoos them away. They were TRYING to tell him and he ignored everything.",
"2016?",
"The fuck kinda people listen to this shit",
"Its the little pause that makes it.",
"Can we crush him already? This guy is trash.",
"Promoters and ticketing agencies will likely start including increasingly elaborate and unconscionable limitation of liability clauses in their terms and conditions to try to keep insurance premiums under control. They'd be operating on the assumption that most would-be plaintiffs can't afford a complex and protracted contract case before they even get to the personal injury issues, and 99% of the time they'd be right. If they did this it would probably take a big class action to put an end to it.",
"Fuck this guy",
"Nah, I just honestly dislike everyone involved on Reddit and trash that I’ve been reading. Like this is a terrible event, but y’all saying dumbshit doesn’t make up for it.",
"Wth, I read Kane Brown for some reason.. Went to google and typed \"What did Chris Brown do?\" and paused for a good 5 seconds before realising that you said Chris and not Kane..\n\nMy brain is not working, lol..",
"I got close to that when Billie Eilish appeared at a smallish festival in Hamburg in 2019. I was stuck in 8th row with one feet off the ground and wedged between people before the show even started. \n\nNoped the fuck out of there and it took forever to break free. Groups of bigger men started crashing into the crowd moving inwards just to break a corridor free. Women and men were crying, shouting and hysterical. That was all before the show. \n\nIt was my first festival ever and I was extremely disappointed in the crowd management. That shit was scary af and deserves criminal investigation against event organisers.",
"Grandfather Kardashian defended OJ Simpson in his murder trial.",
"I know this is going to be buried deep, but I really want to know the conversation that is going on in his \"in-ears\". \n\nAll musicians on stage like that use a system of mostly wireless earphones so they hear the music along with click tracks or any other information that needs to be relayed to them. He is clearly confused as to why an ambulance is in the crowd and looking for information. He gives the \"what's up\" head nod a few times. \n\nSomeone is clearly telling him what is going on and is giving him bad information. I think this will be key in breaking down who is responsible. \n\nShould he have helped pave the way for the ambulance? Yes. Should he have stopped the show? Yes. But if the information that was being relayed to him via his in-ears basically told him to not worry about it and continue the show, that person is equally responsible for the deaths.",
"And then everybody does exactly what he tells them to do.",
"y’all bringing up Chris brown is kind of a moot point. his victim defended/collabed with him after the fact, so there is the nuance.\nTravis Scott’s victims are not defending him rn. maybe give the situation more time before bringing out the crystal ball. you don’t know what’s gonna happen…and that’s okay. no one does.\nno one likes a know-it-all.",
"Kris was best friends with Nicole and completely believes he killed her. And no, they never had a fling. And she was married to Bruce Jenner at the time, pregnant with Kendall during the trial I believe.",
"Unless you're just trolling, I really can't imagine what kind of circumstances in life would turn someone into such a horrible, callous excuse for a human being. I feel bad for your parents having to witness what you've become. I hope you'll consider getting therapy because the opinions you're expressing are extremely dangerous and unhealthy.",
"I love being lost in a huge crowd, but I don’t go to the kind of shows where people get aggressive. For EDM, the big shows are the ones with the coolest lights and effects, and the crazy speakers.",
"What the fuck, people are literally walking over people that are standing how in the fuck",
"This is called defending him, you evil soulless fuck. Get therapy, you are one frightening piece of shit.",
"Never heard of this moron before this tragedy, what an absolute piece of shit.",
"If he still performs after this. But really they more likely make him pay a premium for his concert than make the fans pay because he's the liability not the fans.",
"It's virtue signaling to say \"look at my double plus good artist do thing right not like evil murder man.\"",
"Tbh I wouldn't expect real nurses to be in a medical tent at a concert. This is an unusual occurrence after all.",
"That is a complete fabrication. I've read multiple sources, including the official police report. He was already hitting her in public before they got in the car because she accused him of cheating on her. You're either extremely ignorant of the situation or you're an apologist defending an abusive piece of shit - either way, there's no excuse and you should feel ashamed.",
"Hindsight though. I’m sure they wouldn’t have taken their kids there if they knew how intense his shows yet. But also market the dude to the Fortnite and maccas crowd and you get kid fans 😐 I’ve taken my son to plenty of gigs and I’ve always kept him safe.",
"They want to fit in with other people their age. Almost Everyone resorts to the lowest common denominator. Especially in young adults.",
"I have, not just his death but his child too.",
"we can track them, start a sub reddit specifically to track the company through it's titles.",
"It is so wierd, because he looks concerned but doesn't know what to do, then he says everyone pit your middle fingers up, and I got more confused, then he said both hands, and in a wierd spot in my mind, I wonder if he was trying to get everyone to loosen the pressure, not having arms pushing into eachother, and staying stationary instead of pushing around. It is like he had some logical thought but it wasn't. Cause he would have pulled a Marc Rebillett and had everyone make a path of something.",
"If you watch Travis Scott’s apology video, he def looks like he didn’t give a rat’s ass what happened to those people.",
"Fuck this guy, I hope everyone sues the shit out of him, have you seen the poor apology attempt / video? \n\nHe is literally saying ''I didn't know how serious the issue was'' You dipshit there was a fucking ambulance standing in the middle of a crowd how fucking serious do you think it was? To late now huh...",
"In a time before guitars, Queen wouldnt be famous\n \n \n \nok?",
"Their best song is Barbie Girl",
"bro read",
"cool story bro",
"What an absolute piece of shit",
"Me too. But german rappers are nostly the same sadly. Most of them are just in it for the money and nothing else.",
"Don’t get the appeal of him in any way\n\nI don’t get these people running to see any artist",
"nobody fucking cares how many of you people didn't know who he was.\n\nthat shit is irrelevant",
"doesn’t help that he has an album called Rodeo either lol",
"You think it’s bad now…You shoulda been here 50M years ago…",
"ROTJ mate, not ANH",
"I hope NIKE drops his ass.",
"i’ve interviewed him years ago and seen old video of him as a kid. he’s no doubt on the spectrum.",
"Better call Saul",
"He can be the next Dave Chappelle!",
"Idk PG&E seems more like involuntary manslaughter compared to these actions seems more voluntary, at least upon first sniff.",
"the correct way to order the Travis Scott is to stare into the speakerbox for a good while and then say “…you know what I came for. let’s rage.”\nand THEN they come out to trample you.",
"He has people behind the scenes that are informing him of it. If an ambulance is called to an event, the organisers get notified. No way did Travis not know about the ambulance, no way did he not see it or hear it.",
"Dudes even ran up to him to tell him and he kicks them off stage. He definitely acknowledges the ambulance; I don’t know what one or two fingers up have to do with anything?",
"Sub seems to be gone.",
"A lawyer who successfully sued Chevron for poisoning indigenous communities in Ecuador is being held for 600 days under house arrest. The private prosecutor's spouse in his case worked for Exxon and her own firm had Chevron as a client.",
"No I'm talking to you and calling you a loser reddit dude",
"r/lewronggeneration",
"The CCP? This was Japan...",
"This reads like a line from Idiocracy",
"he is literally not married to anyone.\nI love how anyone who dates these weird ass ppl instantly become “married” to them in the public’s perception",
"Even deep puddles you can just flop over and worm crawl straight over it. Unlike crowds.",
"Can we start a petition to put this motherf*cker in Jail ?",
"this video butchers my hopes in humanity",
"Some one explain to me why Travis Scott is being held in such high accountability please.",
"I don't think the Alec Baldwin thing is a good example. If I understand correctly, he was instructed to never point the gun at people (which is also taught in gun safety courses), but not only did point the gun at the cinematographer but pulled the trigger. There was all kinds of failures and negligence to go around, but if he hadn't done that, it would have just been another negligent discharge of which there were already multiple on that set.",
"Sorta off topic, just gonna throw this out there:\n\nApple software is complete garbage and I deeply regret buying one.\n\nNot having a back function because you \"don't generally need one\" (apples words) is literally the stupidest thing ever, and if you think that iphones are good phones you're a fucking idiot.\n\nWhat a joke of a company.\n\nSent from my iphone.",
"Does it help to diminish your anger when you say mean things to people you don't like? Is that the meanest thing you can say?",
"Oh the devil gets around, doesn't she.",
"Fortnite dropped him also",
"God I hope the victims sue this guy to oblivion. So much so that his wife becomes just a regular old multimillionaire. Heck, people should boycott her products right now honestly",
"Unfortunately they own 90% of live venues in the US or something ridiculous like that. We’d have to stop going to almost all shows. And I’m not doing that. Fuck LiveNation for sure, but they need to be regulated as they have a monopoly. Boycotting just can’t work. It’s like trying to boycott Nestle or Coke.",
"You must be a wonderful person irl considering how insufferably self-righteous you are on the internet.",
"You can articulate your points without sounding like the people you hate my man",
"You mean everywhere in the US? And usually it’s like the top 5 biggest/most notable venues in town. I mean fuck they own Madison Square Gardens. That’s like the most famous venue in the country. They’re a monopoly and need regulation.",
"Demonic. This dude is coordinating a Satanic human sacrifice event and almost everyone obeys. \n\nJesus is the king, bruising the head of the serpent. Repent, ask God for faith in Messiah Jesus, or perish. Forever.",
"I think he was just trying to do a headcount to see which people in the crowd needed the ambulance as he was confused why it was there. He said two hands up at the end instead, recognizing how bad the previous call for a middle finger looked. It was a decent idea to assess the problem for himself that was poorly executed. That said, it would’ve been much more helpful to tell people to raise their hands if the people near them need an ambulance.",
"Honestly, this whole situation has been weighing on my mind since I first saw the footage. Not only TS’s massive narcissist indifference to the suffering of others, but also Kylie’s posting w the ambulance in view as if that’s a normal thing, the videos of the people pleading for the cameraman to radio for help, the videos of HPD standing around people waiting for medics instead of starting chest compressions and CPR…but also, the masses of mindless kids who have no respect for authority, follow a brain dead idol at their own risk, and see something bad happening (the fight videos specifically) and their first instinct is to crowd around with their phones in the air to try to get video of it.",
"There is a back function though? Swipe right from the left edge of your screen.",
"If you find yourself responding to an emergency situation inside an inattentive crowd of this magnitude, simply use the [Active Denial System (ADS)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System?wprov=sfla1) to quickly and effectively clear a direction of your choosing!\n\nAlternatively, you may piss off the performer in question who appears to not care by making them feel like they are on fire.\n\nADS - Being lit just got real.",
"Buddy, I don't think you're in any position whatsoever to comment on the content of someone's character. You are defending a man who nearly beat his girlfriend to death because she called him out on cheating on her. You're either a terrible human being or a troll, or both. I'm not going to entertain this any further and waste any more time on you - you're blocked. Some people are worth trying to help, you are not one of them. You are hopeless and the sad thing is, I think you know it too.",
"The Mandalorian and Rogue One were pretty darn good though.",
"> and this guy just restarts his music.\n\nAnd goes: \"I wanna make this motherfucking ground shake god damnit\"",
"Reddit really is full of a bunch of losers who take off with false information and pretend to be morally above everyone else it’s gross",
"Can we cancel this asshole?",
"Holy 🥑 we got 🍟",
"> Oh, this video isn't so bad, the middle finger is just his subversive way to make sure the crowd is --\n\nI thought so too, and gave him the benefit of a doubt, but then he just goes \"I wanna make this motherfucking ground shake god damnit! Here we go!\"",
"How do you figure?",
"Hi - I've seen about 8 separate videos on actual public freak outs and public freakouts subbreddits - they're all at the top\n\nAND\n\nthere's almost triple that of videos posted of other performers who stop their shows and ask the crowd to make room or 'pick him up'\nSome actively state 'if see you guys trampling on anyone, I'll walk out, so pick people up'\n\nHope this helps :)",
"I already have no idea who this prick is; except for all the posts about him being a prick.",
"I think you misunderstand. This particular sub genre lacks nuance, as it is focused entirely on the “raging”.",
"What a degenerate.",
"Main character syndrome?",
"Or The Transplants",
"Poor people aren't dumb dipshit. Dumb people are.",
"I didn't know who this dude was but his meal was quarter pounder with bacon and lettuce, medium fries (here's the kicker) with BBQ sauce to dip in and a medium Sprite for $6. At least BTS' meal had not one but 2 sauces- Cajun and Sweet Chili. At one point, their McDonald commercial was only one Willow (cricket TV) would run. I still have no idea what either of these people sound like.",
"That’s quite a lot to say. He was clearly negligent but to say it was on purpose, idk.",
" There’s one big difference between the two in the eyes of the industry: Travis is about to cost a lot of people some serious money. There have been plenty of people telling him to cut this shit out for a long time. Even if he avoids prison he will no doubt try the Chris Brown method of rehabbing his image. He may disappear for while before popping up on features but I don’t see a scenario where he is ever booked again. He’s too much of a liability. Fuck him, fuck Chris Brown, and fuck anyone who still listens to their music.",
"Same here and very little shows otherwise.",
"Why is it sick that Fortnite promotes a singer on their platform? I'm confused.",
"You mean like all the political rallies he held in the middle of the pandemic and didn’t require masks lmao?",
"This only sorta works kinda on certain apps and it's another one of their \"do the little flourish properly\" bullshit movements that is easy to fuck up. \n\nHalf the time it doesn't work, apps use this function for other traversals/transitions within themselves and also certain back buttons hardcoded into apps interfere.\n\nOn an Android theres a button at the button you press and it makes you go back, in everything, at all times.\n\nThis sort of non intuitive half assed overly fancy nonsense is rife in the entire phone. \n\nLike the annoying af swirl you have to do to bring up the tabs for the phone, AND there's no close all button, have to close them one by one.\n\nDon't even get me started on the keypad/typing system.\n\nIt's bad software, it's inconsistent and unintuitive, every inch of their phones is badly designed, and it's not a preference thing, it's a lack of functionality/consistency/ease of use.\n\nYou can't simply drag a single cursor in between things you have to do the stupid double point word replace that no one uses. \n\nThere's no fingerprint scan so if you can't look right at the phone, have sunglasses on, or a mask, you can't easily open it. Why? Becauuuuse we saaaid so. I could list 1000 problems with this phone. Not preferences, it's actually extremely similar to android in most ways, just worse and missing features/functionality. It pisses me off the people who have told me they can't make the switch, it's EXACTLY the same. Just worse.\n\nIt's a shitty phone with less features, lower specs, and a better camera.\n\nTheir software is **objectively** bad.",
"You are a abject failure of a human - your child deserves better than to be raised by a sadistic alcoholic like you. You are poisoning him with your behavior and mentality just like you poison everyone else around you. As he grows older, he will grow to resent you just like everyone else in your life and you will die alone, just as you should. No one will mourn, as the world will immediately become a better place without you in it.\n\nThat's not the meanest thing I could say, it's just the truth. Enjoy your block.",
"> The kids don’t realize how dangerous it is and just think it’s fun to push aggressively.\n\nbullshit they don't realize",
"Where cancel culture when we needed it the most",
"how is it not relevant this is probably the dude who arranged the whole festival",
"I think you mean subjectively.",
"Guys a cunt",
"Yeah but it’s not uncommon at all for an ambulance to be at a big festival like this. People are acting like this was a small private venue with 500 people. There was 50,000 people there.",
"No, that was misinformation being spread. Not only because the 16 yr old who passed looked different, but also the mother posted images of her daughter from that night, and she was wearing completely different clothes. She looked so happy and excited in those pictures, too. So fucking sad.",
"I hope his career fails because he is in prison. Seing an ambulance in the audience and then telling his fans to make the ground shake and just continue the show full blast should be considered at least manslaughter of every single person who died there. Fuck this guy. I hope he rots. But he probably won't.",
"Classy. All class right there. Fuck that guy and his bullshit tough guy persona.",
"My feefees are sore",
"Dude nobody cares that‘s not even the topic at hand, all y’all neckbeards coming from your basement using any chance to write a novel about „Apple bad 🤪“ dude stfu",
"He's banging Kylie Jenner.",
"I can’t believe there’s not a bot for that.",
"I thought I was the only one. Thank goodness!",
"This guy is a piece of shit, but why didn't the event organizers or who ever was controlling the music not turn the music off and turn on the lights ?",
"This druggie just ruined his career lmfao bye byeeee",
"Tbh I don't really know the guy but watched out of interest and he got 20/23 right. Sure, some of the questions were very easy and Kylie helped him a lot, but it's not fair to say he didn't know anything.",
"What „back function“ you fucking dingus!?",
"It's been like 10 years, how the fuck is that still a thing?",
"A week ago i did not know who he is, why is he so popular?",
"Literally just swipe from left to center. Love not having a back button",
"God you're so cool for now knowing one of the most famous rappers on the planet. Let me suck you off 🥵🥵🥵🥵\n\nI don't support what happened but can we stop with the \"Didn't even know him\" comments? So cringey and shows nothing but ignorance.",
"MSGE owns MSG, not Live Nation",
"I dont know who this but they dont seem to be in touch with reality",
"I'm more concerned that hundreds of people immediately did what he said",
"This clown needs to be canceled.",
"Not a fan, but I did watch the video. Other than the dog question, which is very weird not to know (but then again she has four dogs), I think he did decently, so it's not fair to say he didn't know anything about Kylie.",
"To kids",
"fool probably doesn't even know what a nihilist is, let alone that he is one",
"I'm sold. I'll never give LN a dime.",
"Well I can all but guarantee that you are wrong. This was a two day festival that was cancelled the second day. The festival goers will get their money back in part. I’ve experienced it myself.",
"IDK man, hardware is solid.",
"Yes of course. I would have hoped they would research this man first. It is scary he has been pushed towards kids so much. This is why parents need to be so vigilant. I know many who were shocked by him after looking up his lyrics.",
"He's a real jerk",
"Not a fan but he did know 1/4 (which is not that good ofc, but something), and he knew the answer to many other questions.",
"Travis Scott's a bitch",
"I can already see this man’s apology tour going in full affect if Dababy Can get a pass from the LGBT mafia then Travis Scott will be fine in a couple months",
"Yes I know that, but it is odd the obsession when the rest literally do nothing…especially Kylie. She has that bad quality makeup brand that licenses her name out, but she did nothing before then. The obsession is bizarre and scary really",
"All those who went to see the concert must feel like dicks for supporting an asshole.",
"Doubt it. R Kelly is a convicted pedo with video evidence and people still love him and defend him to this day.",
"I didn’t know who travis is until a couple of days ago. I wonder why sneaker heads are going crazy over his shoes..",
"Because he has no doubt surrounded himself with people who will only ever tell him that he is right in whatever he does, regardless of how wrong it is. And I'll be that all of them are far too scared to tell him what to do if they think there's a chance he'll disagree.",
"Mobile\nOnly",
"Yeah mate, I'm a 38 year old who's had enough time to see the US build their reputation and show their true colours, particularly with their *major* shifts over the past two decades.\n\nSo there's also that.\n\n...But continue with your American exemplence if it makes you feel better about yourself... Hoo-rah?",
"No objectively, not having a thumbprint function is dumb. Not having a \"close all button\" is worse. Not having functionality, **in software** is objectively bad.",
"Pathetic *Human Being*\n\nWhat a fucking RAT.\n\nPlease pirate the shit of his *\"music\"*",
"Or just don't use Apple music? Their business model is based around giving you more of the shit you aren't interested in, in the hopes their investments pay off.",
"An actual cash1.2 million, or valuation that fluctuates and dissapears and might as well be make believe?",
"That's my point rap doesn't care about it's history like rock and roll does.\n\nThe money and the fame will be gone soon enough. All that people will remember is how people died at his show.",
"It was a great honor paid to Baal",
"This animal better never get to perform again",
"Boycott this piece shit, hope the families sue him for all he has first.....BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT",
"La flame forever🔥",
"That kid was having a seizure and lived but yeah it was a crazy video",
"Cancelled",
"70 years from now it will be way worse",
"That pos should do prison time",
"I've been to some really big concerts and definitely some situations where I thought I was going to pass out from constriction. I keep seeing people say \"this never happens at rock and metal shows\" but this video feels really familiar to experiences I've had during a crowd surge. I have zero desire to go in that mess ever again.",
"That piece of garbage should never be allowed in any venue ever again.",
"Windows XP didn't have a thumbprint function and that software was subjectively good.",
"This wasn't Lit, Travis. It wasn't Lit at all.",
"This one guy touching woman's breasts..",
"*eyeroll* okay well if you're gonna be an idiot you can just not talk.",
"So what???!?? Maybe he was trying to calm shit down. Trying to blame this kid for that is some typical shit",
"Guy looks brain dead when he sees the ambulance show up",
"astroworld libertarian dreamboat",
"Speak for yourself , I’m blasting Travis right now",
"Ambulance there to help people:\ntravis: 🖕🏿",
"He don’t care who you are either 🤣🤣🤣🤣",
"2 words asshole: CANCEL CULTURE",
"What culture are you talking about here bud",
"thats what ashole do",
"I mean I'm sure she knows every single one of his songs, but he struggles to name the products her company makes. I think you should at least pretend to be interested in your partner's job, it seems weird that it's one sided.",
"This prick deserves to lose everything. \nFuck him!",
"How long ago because most incubus concerts I've been to are very chill",
"Same here iPhones rule!!",
"That’s just pure incompetence man…",
"🤣 Waited your entire existence for that and it was worth it 🔺️",
"I guess there's goals for next year. LUL",
"brah you can hear the most horrible screams for help through out that live.... even 3 mins in right after he finishes his intro song... shits bad... they even had a tweet showing off Drake and Travis performing where they do an overhead shot showing them singing out to the crowd with the ambulance in the back, and then there is another shot from afar from the back of the crowd looking at the stage and you can see someone getting CPR... Apple Music left that tweet up for a while even when there was confirmed casualties....",
"> LET US ALL RAISE OUR MIDDLE FINGERS... FOR NO REASON!\"\n\nThis but unironically. This happens literally all the time at concerts. How is this surprising to you? People do the same with lighters.",
"🤨",
"Just following orders is a terrible excuse when people die",
"😂😂😂",
"Lmao. You realize the past generation was saying the same about you.",
"I would watch this movie starring Casey Affleck as the husband and Elizabeth Olson as your sister in law. all jokes aside, I hope things will be fine and no one gets hurt from anything at your family gatherings.",
"Chris Brown doesn't even compare to whatever happened in this concert. 8 deaths, many injuries and teens who need therapy after seeing people dying like its a warzone.",
"Ehhh, I don't buy that when there are mass numbers of incels out there.\n\nHuman psychology and attraction is just weird 🤷🏾♂️",
"You guys are some of the most tone def people on earth. Do you you hear how stupid and ignorant you sound. \n\n\n“My gens music is better” has to be one of the cringiest feelings people have. Learn your own biases dude",
"Am i the only one that has no freakin clue whos this guy ? And as i see, thanks god i didnt....one less moron to think about.",
"Taste has nothing to do with making declarative statements about them that arnt true and clearly shows that they haven’t even listened to both of them.",
"The prosecution rests.",
"Assume Live Naton will declare bankruptcy to avoid serious lawsuits.\n\nNext week new company \"Live Nations\"",
"I mean Chris Brown still sells records",
"6ix 9ine is still huge. They ain’t gonna drop an album everyday.",
"I had no idea this guy existed, and now I see this clip and realise he is in fact black. He has a name so white it could be applied over Crispin Glover and it would fit.",
"> and the emergency/band exit was locked\n\noh my sweet summer child...\n\nthe band exit was fully operational, after all the band fled through it, but when \"regular\" people wanted to flee through it, they were prevented by bouncers, who were adamant to keep this exit as band only.\n\ni don't know how long they did that, at some point they fled as well, i suppose, but yeah. it's safe to assume some death was caused by that cunt of a bouncer who said \"nope, band only!\"",
"Not going to look up the video, but I did look up what the station fire was, never heard of it living on another continent. That’s horrible and eerily similar to a fire disaster in my country in 2000/2001. New years even party in a bar that was supposed to have 80 people but 300 attended. The building had 3 bars in it, one on the ground floor, one on the first and one on the second. The fire was in the top floor bar and started when someone lit a bunch of sparklers at once causing a large shooting flame. The ceiling was covered with spruce branches and Christmas lights that had been hanging there for a month. Immediate blazing fire. \nThe only way out was a winding staircase that was so narrow they could only get out single file, the emergency exit was blocked and the windows had metal bars. Of the 300 very young people (nearly all teenagers) that were there only 45 made it out without severe injuries. 14 dead and 241 admitted to hospital, of which 200 had to be transported to specialized burn centers, a very large portion of them burned so bad they were unrecognizable.\nThe fire lasted only 3 minutes before it went out due to lack of oxygen. For those who want to look it up, Volendam New Years fire.",
"There is a close all function in mobile safari. There is even a close everything else just not this. \n\nMy camera recognizes me in sunglasses easily. For mask set-up an alternate appearance in face id. \n\nNext time just read the manual. Or spend 1 minute googling the problem.",
"Ian McKaye of Fugazi would stop the concert on a dime when he saw people moshing too violently. Then he would spotlight and humiliate the meathead responsible with a 5 minute harangue. I laughed out loud every time he did that.",
"Nahhh.... ReAlLy?????",
"Sad but very true",
"Maybe news coverage is biased, but judging by news about Texas, it seems that Texas is a cesspool of psychotic inbreed fanatic lunatics that have no idea what common sense is.",
"Apple must've also be kinda pissed about the Donda thing too. It supposed to come out after the first livestream. It took three, and not right after the livestream either lol. The stream is on Friday night and it finally came out Sunday morning or something. And every stream is also late. I feel like of it was anybody else Apple would've cancelled on them the very first time it backfired.",
"Seriously, when I first heard of him (a couple of days ago) I assumed he was a country singer. What next, a country singer calling himself Lil’ Hank?",
"He's an very evil and extremely trashy person. It's that simple.",
"Is he a psychopath..? He's completely devoid of emapthy. What kind of human being can act like him?",
"Who is Travis Scott?",
"Bullshit. He knew. He watched a dead body get carried away and he sang while he watched staring at it. Don't give me that bullshit bro.\n\n#heknew",
"**Jacques Bermon Webster II (born April 30, 1991), known professionally as Travis Scott (formerly stylized as Travi$ Scott), is an American rapper, singer, songwriter, and record producer. His stage name is the namesake of a favorite uncle combined with the first name of one of his inspirations, Kid Cudi (whose real name is Scott Mescudi).In 2012, Scott signed his first major-label contract with Epic Records.**\n\nMore details here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_Scott> \n\n\n\n*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*\n\n[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)",
"Disgusting",
"Yet, people make it seem like it’s dangerous to go to a metal show when we care for each other.",
"No. He's evil and trashy. He's dumb too but he knew. He fucking knew.",
"Please add Drake in your list. DO NOT PLAY THIS ARTIST.",
"I'm calling bullshit. He knew why the ambulances are there. He's not that stupid! He's actually an evil person and he saw an ambulance he knew someone was at least hurt, and he did nothing! I can't believe all you guys are trying to defend him by sending he has an excuse of being dumb. That's no excuse. He's not that dumb.",
"Plus when shit goes as bad as it did here it’s way beyond picking people up that have fallen. People are panicking, getting crushed from all directions. This is why it’s down to the organisers and performers who can see what is happening to stop it.",
"the songs are actually lit. but the way he acted is stupid",
"> mobile safari\n\nI'm talking about tabs for all the apps in the phone, who the fuck uses safari.\n\n> My camera recognizes me in sunglasses easily. For mask set-up an alternate appearance in face id.\n\nI have never got it to work with a mask, and besides that sometimes you just wanna unlock your fucking phone without having to stare at it and take your hat off. sometimes I have sunglasses and a mask, or a different mask, or different makeup.\n\nLike there are work arounds to these problems they insist on creating but it doesn't make it not shitty.\n\nLike the fucking sound, they have do not disturb mode, and the ringer never goes all the way down for ringering, its only for music, but also when bluetooth pairs the bluetooth autos to max (fun) and you have to manually turn it off of ring to vibrate/off within the menu system.\n\nOn android if you turn the fucking volume down when music isn't playing it turns the fucking volume off like how a fucking volume button works.\n\nOr like wifi, if you want to connect to wifi you go into wifi then wifi settings (?) then that takes you to the list of wifi connections. That's not what a setting is apple.\n\nOr how fucking bad it is at auto connecting in spotty areas, like if I lose internet I have to go set it to airplane mode on and off in order for it to rediscover coverage sometimes.\n\nThis is just off the top of my head, it never ends the endless list of stupid poorly designed UI. It is objectively shitty UI design, it's bad software.\n\nThey are bad phones. Period. They are.",
"From dealing with teenagers for a long time working in a school I can safely say that he may just be acting aloof to appear \"cool\". I'm not sure why but complete disinterest seems to be a desired trait among teenagers and its annoyed me since I was a teenager. God damn youths.",
"Then are you aware about how hard-core his fans and followers are? Mostly young white kids, but of all colors of course, all young. If you look it up on YouTube I’m sure you’ll find plenty of shenanigans that douche bags have had in the name of Travis Scott.",
"Imagine dying at a packed concert and the last thing you see is this asshole telling everyone to wave their middle finger at your ambulance.",
"Wow. What a pos. Not even waiting for people to receive medical attention before disrespecting the medical crew and starting his show back up.",
"How does he even sound different from anyone else in this genre?",
"A pirate's life for me.",
"2021 - Some people are just Trash.",
"Good to hear that people are dumping all the shoes and astroworld gear asap. Remember we hold the value of his products. When we all step away that shit becomes worthless",
"Never heard of this piece of shit until today.",
"I know, but people bring China up as soon as they can, so i preemptively removed them from the equation in a way that fits the discussion. You can follow rules without losing individuality.",
"I don't know any of his songs and there is zero chance in giving him a single play. I just blocked him on Spotify but I don't see an option on YouTube music to block artists.",
">You can't simply drag a single cursor in between things you have to do the stupid double point word replace that no one uses.\n\nMaybe you can't, but I can. Click and hold where you want the cursor to go. Or click and hold on the spacebar and then you've got full cursor movement wherever.",
"The worst thing about that clip is he actually says he wants to get the ground pumping before he starts rapping again. Like fuck dude you can see an ambulance there, you are in charge…all ya had to fucking do or say to crowd…hey all please make room for the ambulance etc. But nope just carries on like normal.",
"/r/everyonebutmeisanidiot",
"\"salt of the Earth\"",
"Wait…. They are trying to drive an ambulance through the crowd??",
"His music sucks and his image sucks",
"I think that's exactly what we see in the video. He just doesn't know what to do and no-one tells him, so he just carries on.",
"Wtf?",
"Really? Nothing to do with his race? Lol.\n\nThe whole idea that theres something wrong with ebonics, that its less intelligent or proper is racist. Its pretty fucked that black kids are expected to learn how to ”talk white” if they want to be taken seriously. Black ppl accent= dumb thug🙄 White ppl accent= Smart guy😀 But yeah nothing to do with race sure",
"Shorty FaceTime me out the blue",
"this hack/criminal needs to spend the rest of his life in prison, obviously.",
"I love how everybody is putting 100% of the blame on Travis, but not the venue, the parents of the younger festival goers that were hurt for letting them go unsupervised, the camera crew, or anyone else. If you’re gonna be outraged, be mad at everyone at fault, not just the one person",
"Dude stop",
"I agree with you. I would never take my son to a show I know is going to get rowdy. Especially a festival like that. Even then we would be hanging right at the back and not anywhere near a big crowd and i saw it getting unsafe I’d leave. But at the same time the last thing grieving parents need is my judgment. Shit all around. A tragedy.",
"Well even before the assholes at the back that started it all in the first place",
"It does sound awful to me, but I'm not into that kind of music, and people have told me my taste is fucking terrible my whole life so....\n\nPeople can listen to whatever they want as long they can do so without hurting or killing others",
"Fuck you racist",
"Popping her tits out in the process for the world to see and not one person has the decency to pull her top down. This girl is in the hospital, if it was me, this video would be deeply, deeply traumatising.",
"Don't use apples shitty service then?",
"Honestly I can't get the text to land where my finger touches anyway, it seems to be very inaccurate compared to my old s20, the point is why would i immediately go to word replace when i click, one click should be \"place cursor here\" obviously, everything on it requires multiple steps for no reason, like the volume thing. If I hold the volume button down I want the volume down. Why does it bring the ringer down to a sliver and just stop, that doesn't make any fuckin sense. You have to go into the options to truly mute it like, whhhy. Why does every simple intuitive thing need to be replaced with a longer more convoluted thing.\n\nWhy can't I just have a 4 digit pin, has to be 6. I have met 3 people who's iphone password was all 1s because tthey couldnt be bothered to make a 6 digit pin, my fucking bank card is 4 digits.\n\nGod I could go on and on and on about every stupid design decision.",
"Just want to share an alternate view of this moment from the full concert broadcast at 29:45 mark: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaqXtRis5as&t=1785s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaqXtRis5as&t=1785s)\n\nShows his perspective and the Ambulance, also another the thing you don't see in OP's clip is once he resumes the song, the two people on stage with him then proceed to jump into the crowd, so awful.",
"Clearly, so what do you think would be the more calming option, giving the middle finger and then blasting your music or sitting the fuck down and talking calmly to the crowd, telling them to disperse so medical attention could reach the people in need faster?",
"omg",
"Comparing a major unlock feature on a phone to a 15 year old OS not having that feature is a very very clear false equivilancy.\n\n/r/justcallingsomeoneanidiotisntwhatmakesthemanidiotitsthembeingstupidyouidiot",
"He's a low life. Every rapper ever ... is a piece of shit. Need proof ?? Lister to their lyrics.",
"Yeah but if you don't understand the lyrics you don't understand the message, so I guess this guys just likes the jingles and the hype and is willfully ignorant of anything else.",
"yupp, sounds like shit to me",
"Fuck this piece of shit. I hope his career is ruined.",
"🎵the backlash to the backlash to the thing that's just begun🎵",
"What is an acceptable way to express outrage over an entertainer singing as he watches his fans die? How can I make the deaths of these children palatable for you?",
"He literally had the crowd flip off the ambulance, then started his show??? It completely made it much harder to get to the patient. Who should be accountable?",
"I agree but you didn't have to be so toxic lol",
"This just in..Travis Scott is a douche bag. His pig tails are cute though. Little off center.",
"Those poor people at that concert, forced to be orderly and respectful of others. What about their freedom ~~to kill and be killed indiscriminately~~ to enjoy music?!",
"I couldn't get it to open. What's he saying?",
"Anybody connected to the Kardashians in any way is a completely trash person",
"I hope he goes to jail for this. Definitely should be serious implications for causing the deaths of 8 people. He should never touch a stage ever again.",
"Is it true that kids died here? At that concert? Can’t believe anyone under 15 or 16 would be allowed in.",
"Who else? He fucking had control of the crowd?",
"Not a fan anymore",
"Thank you for the work that you and your colleagues do to help others and keep them safe <3",
"It doesn’t seem like anyone told him to stop, you think if people were dying someone would tell him to take the l for the night. He was just doing his show",
"Lmao I'm a racist because I said Travis Scott is responsible, but what about everyone else ? 🤷♂️",
"Man it’s funny I went to death grips and the mosh was rowdy but so respectful however this event was at a band named sticky fingers at “groovin the moo” (AUS) which is usually a hippy crowd with a lot of weed.",
"Who gives a fuck? If you do why?",
"Dont be ashamed that was funny as fuck.",
"When it shows the crowd from Travis’ point of view, there are barely any phone lights from recording him. This should have been another sign to him that something was wrong.",
"hes too high to realize wtf is going on",
"he can't just be dumb. when his first manager was having a seizure, Travis saw him and left him in the room alone.",
"I'm in a bad mood because theres a global pandemic and I've been relatively socially isolated for several years while watching my cost of living rise and my formerly favourite website, reddit, fill with weird fascists who are normalizing bigotry while saying literally whatever unsubstantiated nonsense and we've all just sort of allowed a concept of logic and truth to degrade to nothing because a bunch of rich trillionaires intentionally propagandized and undereducated a generation of rubes who simultaneously were sold a concept of their own specialness and utilized the aforementioned complete abandonment of truth to affirm that whatever nonsense spewed from their fat mouths was totally true because they believe it and nothing anyone says can chance that because fuck everything the planet is about to die. \n\nSo I'm a bit grumpy I'm sorry",
"thats where i'm having an issue understanding. Did he have the crowd flip off the ambulance... OR was it just a \"hey lets get the crowd back and engaged\"? Also, i still don't understand how that makes him accountable. \n\n\nalso let me say i don't know full and /or understand what happened. I really need to see the camera view form the stage. BUT I still don't believe artists should be \"held accountable\" for a venues error, security error, and whoever was responsible for the safety of the crowd. \n\n\nThoughts could change depending on what information comes out as we move forward, but.. yea",
"Somebody asked for a link to that video, which I provided.",
"Yeah that's fair. But if she's been carried somewhere, regained concious, has time to check this guys pulse, there's a reasonable assumption that they're in a position to start CPR. Chances of good neurological outcome in out of hospital cardiac arrest are obviously strongly correlated with cebrebral anoxic time, and anything over >5 minutes is essentially not survivable. But hey, none of you keyboard warriors were actually there so who really knows. Point stands, if you find someone pulseless, and you're in a position to start CPR, do it. The time that elapses while you carry them to the medical tent is long enough to make a difference.",
"Lol keep your head up king your crown is slipping.",
"jeeeeeesus",
"Hes a terrible person and this was an absolute avoidable catastrophe, but he is actually a great producer and writes his own shit",
"It is utterly crazy, how quick some people are to follow a…leader? Social manipulator? People will just do whatever a person on stage says to do.",
"It's all good, I feel you on all of that",
"Hes literally one of the best producers of modern trap music he does all of his stuff himself",
"Pimp Mama Kris advised him to give ticket refunds and pay for funeral costs for victims to try to salvage his reputation. She's a PR machine and yet people like Kanye slam \"the media\", the tool they use to stay famous, relevant and profitable.",
"You realize nobody is forcing you to be on Reddit? If it makes you this upset, it's not healthy, quit the site.\n\nBest of luck to you.",
"It sounds like you just want to complain, which is fine, but did you try clicking and holding to move the cursor where you want it to go? Did you try clicking and holding on the spacebar and then moving the cursor around? Those work really nicely in my experience.\n\nDoing just a click does a different thing than it does on the phone you're used to.",
"Dude is gonna lose everything.",
"I'm sure there is a whole team of people behind him and probably a whole team who handles the venue. I'm trying to imagine how many people had to monumentally f*ck up for this whole incident to happen.",
"He said, 'Woah. A ambulance. Put your middle finger up if you alright. Put both hands in the air, I want to feel the floor shake' before going into the piece about candy canes and m&ms. I think you're too generous.",
"I’ve seen a few folks saying they want to not hear Chris Brown as well. Why? Is it for the same incident or has something else happened?",
"I'm not arguing against your opinion of Apple, just the way you use \"objectively\". You might say Apple devices objectively do not have a back button, but your feeling that it's bad is subjective. It's just what the word means that's all.",
"Literally threw the astroworld hoodie I had in the trash yesterday",
"I haven't been in a mosh pit for about 15 years, but I remember multiple instances of people helping others up, including me. I'm tall and substantial but no hesitation from people smaller and younger putting their hands out. I remember at the time thinking \"dude that's nice\" but it kept happening and was just how everybody did things at those shows. Occasionally you'd get some shirtless animal deliberately trying to hurt people but those people were always isolated by the crowd and security dudes would get to them easily.",
"You can use a 4 digit passcode. \nSettings > Face ID and Code > Change code > Code Options > 4 Digits. \nYou can detach ringer volume from the normal volume of music playback. Also found in settings. \nIf you want a complete mute of all notifications use Do not Disturb from the control settings. (Pulled down from right top corner).",
"I reckon he will go to jail or get assasinated lets be honest",
"Seems like the kind of guy that would just hire yes people and cousins.",
"I watched the set like two hours ago, I only noticed the set stopped twice.",
"This artist is an asshole, but the only reason he was able to worsen the situation is because the event organizer didn’t immediately pause or end the show and cut the mic and handover to event officials.\n\nI am a live event/concert manager (for smaller events, admittedly) and absolutely the #1 responsibility is crowd safety. Anything starts looking like it might be getting dangerous and you initiate the emergency decision making process. I make it a point to have my head of security with me or close by all the time because when a situation develops, security is the first and usually only step required to calm the situation.\n\nNobody at this concert was talking to each other, and instead the artist was directing the event.",
"A car without a reverse function is a bad car.\n\nIs that subjective? Only if we just say literally EVERYTHING is subjective and nothing is knowable. We all agree that at a certain point objectivity can be defined . With any non \"annoying philosophical bastardization of object\" definition of bad, not having a back button is bad.",
"Uhh what swirl to bring up tabs are you talking about?\nYou’re either making bad faith arguments or you have no idea how to use your device and are blaming your incompetence on design.",
"Sure, still no back button, still an idiotic volume system, still cant turn off amber alert nukes, still no close all button, still got a garbage charger that costs 40$ to replace that is made like a dollar store piece of junk, still no thumbscan, still a ton of stuff.",
"Does anyone know why they’re still saying only 8-11 people died? After all these videos came out there’s no way it was under 10 people dead. There was also a memorial put up around that venue with waaaay more names being told to rip",
"bottom right to right side swirl to bring up the overview apps screen, i dont know what to call the screen.",
"All I’m hearing is you have a weak pin on your debit card",
"Or I could hold the voloume button down until the phone goes to vibrate then silent? I don't want them depaired, I just want the volume down to turn down music unless theres no music then make it turn down all system sounds, or do both together. Why is every answer \"go deep into the settings to fix the unintuitive design with a makeshift solution that's imperfect\" and if I could do this (I can apparently make it 4 digits) why did the PHONE SAY THAT I COULDNT WHEN I SET IT UP.\n\nLike I'm under this misconception as are several others specifically because the iphone said when I said it up \"you are required to make a 6 digit code\" it literally said \"4 digits are too easy to guess\", but then lets you in the options? \n\nLike wtf, this is literally the thing everyone complains about windows doing. \n\nWhhhhy.\n\n\nWHHHHY\n\nRAAAWR\n\n(also thanks lol)",
"\"i been thru sum shit yall, cashapp in the description\"",
"It's worse. Door wasn't locked, a jobsworth security officer was stopping people using it as it was for the band only.\n\nThe video tape starts inside and the guy realises quickly what is happening and gets out",
"Nope this idiot doesn’t try anything except whining",
"Reading minds is not a qualification that he needed that day. Just needed eyes to see the dead bodies",
"Garbage, person and music",
"Trample Scott really is personally responsible for everything that happened",
"You will be on the news tomorrow. All over the world. 24/7!\n\n“Nameless Redditor single-handedly destroys the world’s first 2 trillion corporation. \n“Loyal apple customers celebrate their liberator.”\n\nCongratulations on the monumental achievement. \n\nlol",
"Here's what this stupid man could have done for example. But his complete lack of empathy made him want to keep going cause it was his time to shine and get atenttion.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZtvVUwX-yU (around 1 min mark)",
"I saw that one, then saw another post directly after of all of the victims photos and their names/ages. When I realized I recognized the second person as the body I saw in the video it did not sit well at all with me. AT ALL",
"Well, for quickly turning ringer sound off to vibration, you have the switch above the volume buttons.\nFor a quick mute everything you have the dnd function. \n\nIt’s not thaaaaaaat unintuitive but I can be a bit messy from what you’re used to when switching from another OS.",
"“Who the fuck uses safari”\nYep, we’ve found a moron\n\nBruh everything you bitch about so far are things that aren’t issues if you read the fucking manual.",
"I'll never get 'Where's my husband' out my head",
"thats only on spotify",
"Yes. Forgot to mention that but along with the fear now of being at a REAL concert, this is my point.",
"I enjoy watching interviews with Karl Sanders from Nile, he always has like a chill dad energy. When you listen to any “extreme” music for a while, you find that it’s well beyond that edgy angriness it’s perceived for.",
"That set seriously reminded me of Ivan Ooze and his poisoned slime or an episode of Metalocalypse.\n\nI'll wait to see what an independant investigation has to say, if there is one, but I don't find it entirely implausible that he wanted to kill people with music. He was just too much of a creep on stage- A few songs before the end he shouted, 'Lets die tonight Houston!'",
"I will watch Cancel Culture’s career with great interest.",
"Mosh pits at metal concerts can be pretty dangerous , but I've seen videos of rockers putting more effort into saving fans than this guy.",
"you already bought the gear now you’re going to throw it away. he still made money and will continue to do so",
"I was at a prodigy gig where this started to happen, they just straight up stopped playing, mid song, cut all music, flood lit the crowd and told people to back up until those people at the front were safe.\n\nThis guy needs arresting, what a cunt.",
"Nobody else here is bitching and moaning about things they don’t even understand. \n\nYou’re a twat.",
"Bro he's no about to jump in and sign you for defending him on Reddit lol",
"Yes they are, the solutions being presented do not fix the things wrong in most cases. There is still no universal back button. There is still no way to have the volume button set the phone to vibrate or silent. There is still no touchpad, there is still basic functionality lacking.",
"Its not really hard to understand the why. The guy makes good music but he is a shitty person and only cares about money. It's that simple. I never know why people act like celebrities are God's gift to the world and incapable of being a douchebag",
"Have you not seen the countless videos recently of many bands stopping their shows for medical emergencies?",
"I was hoping it was that, but it just seems like a ludicrous time to me like \"your nipple tape came off your top babe\". Felt like it was someone on drugs who did not realize they were in a life or death scenario.. A lot of people are calling me out for saying that, but does anyone seriously believe there isn't a whole bunch of sexual assault that happens in a crush scenario like this?",
"Me: oh maybe he's having people put hands up so the area can be clearly identified (dying people would be the area without hands up) \n\nTravis: \"I wanna make this mothafuckin ground shake\" \n\nMe: oh....",
"Mainstream news coverup",
"God, this guy is a total POS! He can’t even summon the mere pretence of decency. I’m truly disgusted by his recent antics.",
"The fact that so many people put the middle finger up at that point shows how classy that crowd was as well.",
"Who has been canceled for 12 year old words? I dont know any celebrity that has happened to",
"Naw,people are selling stuff left and right for the low.I get what you’re saying that they already spent the money but it’s funny to see how fast that shift in sneaker heads selling their stuff super quick,I get it though remember revenge storms? Same thing,money will always be made but controlling the demand for it definitely has an impact",
"Fuck this piece of shit",
"It literally took me like five repeated taps to finally downvote your comment… these things are overpriced dogshit for people who follow trends.\n\n-pissed guy that had to buy an iPhone to use my DJI drone.",
"that switch is full silent i often want just vibrate, also that button is annoying to use because its so tiny and I have big hands. It's not just unintuitive it's bad. Tiny little flip switchs instead of just using the fucking volume button is stupid.\n\nAnd unintuitive.",
"That's weird. Because there are thirty credited producers and writers on his album. He does next to nothing himself. Just approves beats and lyrics. Chase b and Mike dean do most of his production.\n\nThe man is a fraud. Milli vanilli for the modern age.",
"And tap...",
"I use Android and have a shortlist of reasons I can't stand using an iPhone more than a couple days, but your takes are hilarious. Yes, stuff like inconsistent back gestures and a forever-half-assed notification system do make it less functional and generally slower to navigate, but jeez...\n\n> I'm talking about tabs for all the apps in the phone,\n\nWell the confusion was probably that you mentioned tabs, while not talking about tabs. They don't have a \"close all apps\" button because background apps are well controlled and users repeatedly killing every app for no reason just hurts battery life, causing the same users complain even more.\n\n> who the fuck uses safari.\n\nOh yes, I'm sure a phone designed for the masses has no users who are comfortable with the default browser.\n\nNo fingerprint is bad, agreed, but if I'm wearing gloves one day I don't flip the fuck out about how fingerprint sensors are bullshit and any phone with one sucks and if you buy a phone without Face ID you're an idiot.\n\n> they have do not disturb mode, and the ringer never goes all the way down for ringering, its only for music\n\nMaybe try this sentence again lol, are you complaining that while the silent switch is set to \"not silent\" the phone doesn't go silent? \n\n> if you want to connect to wifi you go into wifi then wifi settings (?) then that takes you to the list of wifi connections. That's not what a setting is apple.\n\nYou go to Settings > WiFi and the list is right there. Where do you want them to be? It's the same on Android.\n\nIdk about your coverage issues, I haven't seen that.\n\nI get the impression you're used to Android, and refuse to spend more than a couple seconds trying to understand any difference with an iPhone but just assume \"not what I'm used to == objectively wrong and bad\". Which is like, fine, you're welcome to not use them just like me, but don't then get pissed off with others who struggle with the inverse switch.",
"We are seeing this man being destroyed by the internet. What a time to be alive lol. Asshole.",
"Lol, it's Travis Scott. Him and many rappers put on this ultra mancho tuff guy attitude for the cameras so peoplethink he's hard 24/7. It's part of his character and persona. Not sure how he really is behind closed doors but that's why he does that. Not all rappers do this because some break character and get real but he definitely isn't one of them. It's pure cringe and weird.\n\nHe makes good music and that's it. He's not somebody that should be idolized or looked up to as a role model.",
"I can't wait for the follow up\n\n\"Brilliant redditor single handled destroys anti Apple campaign, saving them from one vibrant crusaders totally legitimate attempt to end Apple forever by complaining about them deep in a reddit post\"\n\nLike I'm just bitching about their shitty phones, holy shit take it personally much.",
"The show must go on",
"Just read a comment saying that guy in that video was having a seizure and survived.",
"Damn. My dude fucked up.",
"I don't condone violence but...\n\nThis guy needs to be punched in the face every time he leaves home, or goes outside. Or just in general.\n\nThere is no excuse for what he did.",
"Also any concert I have been to if a safety concern for the audience came up the artist would stop and ask fans to make way for medical or stop a mosh put that was getting out of hand.",
"Another reminder that these people should not be celebrated. We make the wrong people celebrities",
"Can you point me to some of his best work?\n\nEDIT: Considering the reply I got from some rando, I think I should add this is a sincere request. It has nothing to do with the accident and his alleged culpability.",
"Ok buddy, was it also a satanic ritual? lmao",
"Also can you follow me around fixing my problems with this stupid phone, you're very helpful and polite in the face of my rage, it's nice.\n\n Can you bring back a back button? A thumbprint scanner? Can you make my parents care about me, they were never abusive but they truly just don't care you know.",
"This guy is getting a lot of free advertising. Never heard of him before his bullshit stunt. Doubt it will end his career. When an asshole is in the news this much it usually ends up helping them over all.",
"It’s almost like he deliberately got his fans to raise both their arms so the ambulance didn’t know where to go and then also get everyone to start jumping up and down to completely stop the ambulance. The track was probably preplanned but it seems like a completely pointless thing to do for 30 seconds when he could clearly see an ambulance driving through the crowd.",
"This punk should be in the same room with Aaron Rogers.",
"False idols",
"Its pretty clear he did something wrong",
"She's literally the epitome of the type of girl who wants a bad boy/toxic guy",
"The Kardashian experience",
"Just hearing a little bit of his music, I can tell that his fans aren't the type of people to give a shit about this incident.",
"I mean...you have to be a pure piece of shit to ignore the ambulance. It's there for a reason.",
"Then why the fuck are you still responding? Clearly it affects you. Go away redditor.",
"And yet will still continue to make millions for this display. What a piece of sh!@",
"> Users repeatedly killing every app for no reason just hurts battery life\n\nWhy would closing my chrome/tinder windows kill battery life?\n\n> others who struggle with the inverse switch.\n\nThere's not much of a difference other than these missing features, bad functionality, bad connectivity, and no back button\n\nTHERES NO BACK BUTTON.\n\nWhhhhy?????",
"The switch is vibrate by default unless you have it disabled in the settings. It’s under sounds and haptics",
"This is y’all perceiving me as upset because I use flavorful language to talk about politically spun trash. It’s more than obvious I’m welcome here, thanks for the concern though. You all act like trash on a constant basis to one another regardless, I just want you all to know how hypocritical each one of you are. \n\n\nIt’s pretty funny/ridiculous though, that the presumptions on my emotional state you all easily transcribe onto me (and others you disagree with) so seamlessly, is always surprisingly enlightening. \n\nWay to reaffirm my opinion of the majority of individuals on Reddit being trash tier humans looking for a leg up anyway they can. Even in an irrelevant online squabble. \n\nBut best of luck to you too.",
"Didn't he recently beat his new girlfriend too?",
"Ahh there it is.\n\nShattered and fragile\n\nSorry your idol is scum",
"The devil personified",
"Guys it's racist to not like rap. What are you, 11? You have the world view of a sesame street extra",
"I think he got triggered by that reference to Donald Trump inciting an insurrection against the US govt on Jan 6th",
"understatement of the century 😂",
"I've also been in a similar situation at a festival as a teenager. Was right up the front against the metal barrier, and I'm pretty petite. Luckily the friend I was with was quite a bit bigger and was able to stand behind me and push against the railing the pus he the crowd back enough to get a breath. And that was only a small festival in the middle of a paddock, I can't even comprehend this scale.",
"I didn’t take it personally. The last iPhone I had was the iPhone 5. \nI do like their iPads. And that’s about it.\n\nIt’s obvious you are the one personally invested in this.\nI just found it funny. \n\nBut don’t let me take any more of your time, you need all your strength for your crusade.",
"Seriously, this punk gives black talented artists a bad name.",
"I agree that it'd be hard for a performer to know everything at all times, but I mean an ambulance driving through the crowd with lights on is usually a good sign that something is terribly wrong.",
"The only bands I know from Houston are ZZ Top and Destiny's Child. Don't know of any country music bands from Houston.",
"It’s just funny how hard he pretends to be. Why do people support these clowns?",
"The switch toggles on my iPhone sound off to vibration. Settings > Sounds and Haptics > Vibration (at the top)\nThere you can set if the switch should become vibration or complete silence for notifications but calls. Those are muted with the DnD option afaik. \n\nA thumbprint scanner would be nice, especially located at the back of the phone. Let me quickly iMessage Tim Apple for it. \nRegarding your parents: I am sorry to hear that. This must suck. I can’t change your parents but you can always message me if there’s something.",
"I definitely don’t sound like the people I hate. The people I hate care too much about making you feel comfortable with everything you read and their own karma to actually say what needs to be said. So I disagree with you",
"I’m a world where the island boys are internet famous, this guy has no concerns about his career.",
"i beg to differ",
"\nBut what if sometimes I want silent and sometimes I want vibrate? I can't easily swap between makes noise, is vibrating, is silent.\n\nWhhhy. Why have this tiny annoying switch taht I can barely flick to turn the phone to silent when it has volume buttons. I have to use both hands and tilt the phone to get the switch to flip, a physical switch that if i forget about leaves the phone on silent.\n\nAnd even with the switch if I want to go vibrate AND silent at different times I have to go into the settings.\n\n\nWhy is this like this, it's a physical failure point, it's awkward and its totally wildly unnecessary.\n\nYou can just hold volume down on a normal non stupid phone. Whhhhhat is the advantage?\n\nIt is, I repeat, OBJECTIVELY, bad.",
"Y'all 12 year olds",
"Wow, 500+ metal shows.\n\nHow is your hearing? Have you experienced any sort of hearing loss/tinnitus/ringing?",
"the lack of bins is the over-protracted legacy of a reactionary ban of bins following a coordinated sarin gas attack by fanatic zealots that killed 12 and injured ~5,000 in 1995",
"Yup posted this on another thread, I was at a prodigy gig where this exact situation unfolded, they stopped playing mid song and dealt with it, like humans.",
"I know they were, that reference *was* idiotic. But there was no reason to throw an absolute tantrum over it.",
"Its not. Brittany is the original spelling, after the region in France. Britney is a misspelling.",
"Boomer",
"People react differently in high stress situations. Travis Scott doesn't seem like the type to be cool, calm, & collected in serious situations. You can see the panic in his face when he sees the ambulance. He's debating on what to do. If I had to take a guess, he decided to try to not dwell on it & cause more panic. Not a brightest move, but I can't 100% blame him for it.",
"It's not a misspelling if millions of people use it. That's how language works.",
"So why is Drake skating on all of this? He had a mic too.",
"We're perceiving you as upset because your tantruming, whining about the platform, the people, when the solution is simple: quit the site.\n\nWhy make yourself needlessly worked up, there's no upshot? Go enjoy your life if you don't enjoy this.",
"Thank you, when I am ruler of all phones you shall be spared from ads.",
"Millions of fans think your hyperbole is crap.",
"I come from a similar background but I think it's worth noting the distinction in the hard rock genres where we've learned pit/crowd etiquette for decades due to people getting hurt in the early days. At any given show, 75-90% of the attendees have been shown the ropes or seen someone go down (maybe themselves) in a way that they understood the severity of it.\n\nI think at a show like this, it's 90% people who have never seen these sorts of protocols, with an artist who doesnt see the need to look out for his fans. You have a bunch of kids who never went to punk and metal shows to learn that stuff, and now you're cramming tens of thousands of them together. When most of us metalheads learned about how to take care of each other in the crowd and in the pit, we learned it at smaller shows. For me a show with a thousand people there was a HUGE show.\n\nSo to compare, we're talking about a fanbase that has institutional knowledge of protocols in small groups before they ever get to a giant festival. And in this case you have an artist that just doesnt care and wants to actively increase risk factors combined with a fanbase that doesnt know any of these protocols exist. The videos I've seen show a bunch of teenagers.\n\nThe reason I mention this is because it's totally a learned thing, and in the metal/punk world, all the people there learned it at smaller shows long before the kids showed up to their first festival. It's the lack of institutional knowledge here and Scott encouraging people to break through the barricades that caused this.",
"I’m on mobile.",
"Why would you wanna do that to me?",
">but nobody's moving to cancel Amber Heard\n\nUh yeah, they did. Repeatedly.",
"You showed 2 comments out of thousands. Not saying there aren't racists but all you're doing is using the biggest shield you have to defend this piece of shit. If this was Mac Miller *if he were alive* people would say the same shit they are about travis",
"But what if I want to turn it silent some times, and have it vibrate other times. Sometimes you want it totally silent, sometimes you want vibrations.\n\nYou can't do that discretely, and you want to do that sort of thing discretely.",
"Premium. I have Apple one.",
"I hope he gets arrested , this isn’t the first time he’s put his fans in shitty unsafe environments",
"I’m surprised Axl didn’t just walk off stage and not return. Seems like that would be more par for the course for him",
"🎵 ba da ba ba ba..fuck the ambulance🎵",
"I hope his career ends",
"Triggered much? 😆 \n\nYou seemed to go off the deep end at reference to the **Jan 6th insurrection** when Trump incited a mob to attack Congress in an attempt to overturn a democratic election. \n\nWhich is just a statement of *fact*, regardless of your political perspective.",
"White people don’t have culture - lol",
"Malice, hubris, massive ego. Take a pick or pick em all.",
"Better stop with Ticketmaster too, then.",
"It was literally irrelevant if you pay attention to the context— but it shows how ridiculously dumb the general ‘educated’ population has become. \n\n\nMore degrees than ever before in history but the quality of the degrees conflated with the misguided egos/social media/reputation... Truly something vomit inducing for the history books.",
"That's not a problem at this point.",
"I think it was a fair reference, stochastic terrorism is a real thing",
"I recently discovered that the song stuck in my head was “every breaking wave” from songs of innocence. So it took 6 years but apple won.",
"Keep passing that buck",
"What was the thing at the beginning where he looks out at the audience for a bit and then calls for \"two hands in the air\"? Was that basically, \"fuck this let's rage!\"?",
"How did they practice queing like dis",
"For sure, but we don't really know much about their relationship, granted from this interview it looks bit one-sided.\n\nEdit. Also this gets a bit nitpicky, but I'm sure it's easier to remember the names of songs you listen than knowing make-up products you don't use yourself.",
"It's like that scene in battle of the bastards episode of GOT.",
"ThINLy VEIled RAciSM!!!! You are a thinly veiled asshat.",
"It's easy man, stop giving apple your pennies and they won't have any to give to these jebronies",
"If he encouraged the crowd to make the ambulances job harder, he could have liability if someone was hurt worse then they would have been or died because of the obstruction. Hopefully legal eagle does a piece on this. Knowing earth he probably has enough money to just buy his way out of every potential option.",
"Rich black is still rich first.",
"Eminem is great tho",
"You alright?",
"That was my reaction too..",
"[My responses are limited.](https://tenor.com/5tr9.gif)",
"I’m not that worked up, espousing my distaste and disgust with your behaviors isn’t that big of a deal for me. I live for something more than whining, sorry to disappoint you. If you cannot relate to complex goals and only can see things the way you want, then \nyou’ve proven my point .",
"Have you ever been in stage ? At that level ? No,",
"I had the same thought myself. It truly looked to me like he was confused about what to do and surprised by the situation, his expressions don’t look staged to me\n\nThat said he went with a “show must go on” mentality and it made the situation worse. \n\nI’m not condoning his actions and he made bad decisions but I can’t say without knowing him he wanted to see his fans die. This is on him for his series of bad decisions- but it’s also failure from multiple people and insufficient crowd control/safety/security.",
"Sickomode",
"Great point. This dude is the fall guy for a lot of really incompetent behavior. Not that he's undeserving.. but...",
"January 6th was a joke compared to this. Not a fair comparison at all. 8 kids died and 300 were injured. It was a stupid thing to say.",
"He looks like a confused puppy.",
"Lol you never know, maybe he need's a friend right now.\n\nBut seriously, I just don't like it when people distort facts to fit their agenda. You have all the reason to hate the guy for what he did / didn't do, but it doesn't change the fact he answered 20/23 questions at least somewhat correctly.",
"Whoah, you ok?",
"But you are right, there is a process that needs to be followed and throwing him in jail now is not that process.",
"Speaking of history, I wonder what they’re gonna write in textbooks about Donald Trump inciting a mob to attack Congress to overturn a fair election in an attempt to illegally cling to power",
"If they insisted the show to keep going, they wouldn’t have come on the stage interrupting him to say that. So, if that is correct, it also makes sense since Apple was live-streaming the event and they didn’t want to lose out on coins.",
"Did he? Give me a quote, give me a video. Cause unless I see something along the lines of “we need to take back this country with violence, we must attack them etc” then I don’t see any incitement. Just your personal take on the events or your educators/social media influencers opinion on how you should believe. Which I don’t care for sorry.",
"C U N T",
"I see little difference in the people still raging about Trump and generalizing conservatives and/or Republicans vs the comments you made about all of Reddit. It's all just overly emotional tantrum throwing\n\nEDIT: accidentally posted comment before I finished it",
"If you have a Spotify account. Search Travis Scott and when you're on his artist page click the 3 dots and press the \"Do not play this artist\" button and boom Spotify has one more person adding to the metrics of not playing this artist.",
"🤷♂️ idk it would be interesting if it was true though!",
"Found the fascist!",
"Racist",
"Saweetie gonna get an email letting her know not to fuck around.",
"Does he think the ambulance was the police or something? Like is he thinking they are coming shut him down so he does the whole rebel move and give them the finger?",
"Yeehaw brother",
"They know",
"Yeah, you can turn a blind eye to upvoted lies. That’s cool. I’ll just call it as I see it. It’s a different way to live, I’m not trying to become your friends",
"The only problem with that is Travis Scott’s fan base is just as ignorant and filled with rage as he is",
"This is why I only listen to pre 2010 US hip hop or UK shit. Rap out of the US isn't great right now",
"Is anyone surprised? The guys a degenerate clown. Pathetic that this kind of idiot gets to be a voice that kids listen to. Artists like this who show no respect or compassion for their own fans are trash and should immediately be taken down and forgotten. His songs are all bullshit too what’s his message come on now time to stop idolizing him",
"Reddit has amnesia? Fam just watch the video. He mentions an ambulance, not a police car.",
"I didn't come here to make friends either, I came here to debate, but debate is useless with someone who makes baseless assumptions about the other party and sticks to them. Have a good day",
"You play magic though I don’t think you even know what Spotify is",
"I think it's worth noting that gig culture is very different depending on your city/country so just might affect your perception. Tbf I've only ever been to British gigs and festivals, but seeing the same bands in different cities the behaviour of the crowd and general atmosphere can vary a lot",
"Then he tried to cry about it! Some folks thinks it was the devil sacrifice🤔",
"I don't know if Travis knew what was really going on or the extent of it. When he was speaking with the crowd, telling them to stick their middle finger up... it looked like he was trying to figure out what was going on. I'm also not sure if he could really see what was going on because of the poor visibility.\n\nYou watch other concerts, and you'll see people run on stage and tell the band to stop what they're doing to get the crowd under control. Not saying that Travis is guilt-free but I would put more of the blame on the people running the event.",
"I found nobody of note unfortunately. But if being a fascist means not believing and accepting lies and garbage. Then fuck yeah",
"Just sad to see they drink the corporate koolaid and live in the backwash. You can’t convince them with knowledge they are already lost.",
"Wake me up when someone dies at a Skepta concert this shit is lame",
"Nobody is passing the buck",
"Good questions that need to be addressed.",
"There's a hardware back button on android devices that iPhones don't have.\n\nLike you don't need to agree with this person to understand the complaint. Iphones don't have a back button, and they would very much prefer to have one.\n\nI'm not going to pretend it's why I have an android, but I definitely would miss it if I went iPhone.",
"He said If Everybody Good Put a Middle Finger In The Sky.",
"Dig *up*, stupid.",
"Yeah this will fuc* him up",
"Yeah he deserves to get sued for every penny he has because apparently that’s the only thing he cares about. But he’ll probably be playing again next month. He’ll attract the “I might die at this concert, cool man” crowd.",
"This is what I got as well. People try to defend him by saying \"he didn't know!!\" but he should have been willing enough to risk whatever potential problem he caused to make sure people were safe, and he wasn't willing to do that.",
"Holy shit this guy just radiates stupid. It's like that scene from 2001 when the monolith is discovered by cavemen and they just point and OOG at it for 45 straight minutes. This guy just can't get two neurons to clack into each other no matter how hard he oogs.",
"Bunch of trash, just throw an atomic bomb in alll those shit,",
"People weren’t total garbage in the 90’s.",
"But you are. Take it with pride.",
"You can also swipe ACROSS the home bar, left or right, and it moves through the apps in order, same order they’re in in the multitasking view. So, not necessarily a universal back as it doesn’t work within an app. But if you’re wanting to go back and forth between two apps or three apps really quickly, it’s very helpful. \n\nSome apps also, like Apollo for Reddit, let you swipe across the menu bar at the bottom of the screen (the one with like homepage, inbox, account, search), left or right, to move through pages you’ve visited already. \n\nThis guy sounds like someone whose mind has been molded by Android and now it’s broken and he can’t fathom another way of navigating information. To me the back button on an Android is never touched and next to pointless.",
"He is a total piece of crap. I hope they can charge him with something in these deaths. He clearly can care less about those who come to his concerts and only wants the money and fame . Disgusting",
"Yea, I feel you. I got the same sense actually. he was trying to calculate the best answer, and here's the kicker, you can see he's been high on his own supply for a long time, years probably. and that right there might be the issue, when crunch time hit, he was not equipped. All this is just me theorizing of course.",
"You assume too much",
"Look at all them sheep…",
"Then buy a different phone and calm down.",
"Yea, Live Nation should have pulled the plug, no doubt. where are they in all this, hiding out I guess.",
"I think the worst part is when he turns around and says “I wanna make the fucking ground shake” like ??? Imagine being STUCK DYING and an ambulance is doing it’s best to get to you and you hear that!? Like WHAT !?",
"Would of been worst if he said alright y'all we gotta stop the show. Lol people would of been pissed.",
"Well he didn't LITERALLY SAY \"we must attack the Capitol with violence!\" he and the rest of the conservative media just said the election was stolen, that Jan 6th would be like 1776, then they gathered all of his most rabid supporters from across the country for a rally on the steps of the Capitol *coincidentally* while the election was being verified, then he sat on his hands for a while when the agitated crowd just \"spontaneously\" decided to storm the Capitol. So really, no responsibility at all!",
"Ok so in his defense he probably had no idea what was going on; people get drunk & pass out all the time at concerts. BUT he was clearly aware SOMETHING was wrong and not having any genuine compassion, he took no time to figure it out, or tell people to look around them and help anyone who's down, or to help the ambulance get to the people who need help, he just goes on his merry way.",
"Trav scot bad gimmie karma definitely is not the way to do it.",
"Sorry, nobody **in power**. She hasn't been fired from Aquaman like Johnny Deppw as fired from Fantastic Beasts.",
"He is a POS but as long as he did not disparage the LGBTQ community or grope anyone he will sail right through this and all is forgiven.",
"Famous or even gifted does not mean smart. I don't know him at all but I've seen lots of clueless people who want to look like they're a leader. Humble (or intelligent / experienced) people know when lead by stepping aside so people more equipped can do their thing.",
"And people are trying to defend him saying \"well how was he supposed to control 50,000 people?\" OK sure, he maybe couldn't have controlled them, but it's the fact that he didn't even try.",
"Lol, thx for the assist (and you're right)",
"WHERE WAS THE FIRE MARSHAL?",
"It's just trash \"yeaaaah look at me I'm rich\"",
"Blink 182 clearly learned about punk ROCK watching MTV, all image no substance.",
"I get the goosebumps every time…",
"My God that would scare the shit out of anyone being so powerless.",
"Yeah. It’s really easy to twist a narrative when you hate a party and president for four years. The media’s belief, and your belief is irrelevant. Bottom line: he wasn’t indicted for it, there was massive disagreement on if incitement occurred at all, and you probably like to believe he incited it because you hated the president at the time. It’s an obvious bias in individuals and media. \n\nThe difference between the media and individuals, is the media made hell of a lot of money talking about trump, and the individuals just became hell of a lot stupider thinking they were being told the truth.\n\n\nBut we can pretend you aren’t all delusional and eat up whatever ideologue you’re supposed to have.",
"LOL'd\n\nGestures are working flawlessly. Software is the best money can buy. \n\nThe only problem an iPhone has is that fucking iTunes program you have to use on a PC. No drag and drop unless you use a 3rd party software.",
"I've been to many shows over the years and although ambulances are present, I've never seen one drive into a crowd. Even Travis was taken back by seeing the ambulance driving into the crowd. However, instead of stopping the show to allow the ambulance to do it's job, he continued on which made the medical staff job even harder (He didn't even say anything about the idiots dancing on top of the ambulance). Travis is a dumb, irresponsible 'artist', who was responsible for 8 deaths.",
"Crazy, condolences to the families who were affected by this tragedy.",
"Not understanding the actual atrocities apple and google do but get away with themselves. You got to see Travis Scott... You aren't seeing the truly corrupt evil behind their curtain.",
"You didn't contradict a single one of the points I brought up because they're completely factual. Your only point is to say that the President wasn't indicted for a crime, which we already know will never happen. It's against government policy, in fact. And the only reason he wasn't impeached is because Republicans refused to hold him accountable for literally anything. [And I mean, what possible motive would Trump have for disrupting the affirmation of the election on Jan 6th, anyway?](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/05/trump-pressures-pence-election-results-455069)\n\n\nI'm delusional? I'm the only one with facts and evidence. You just throw out bullshit because you're either intentionally deceptive or unbelievably gullible.",
"I already give them 0 dollars. I don't think I can give them much ~~more~~ less.",
"How can anyone be his fan anymore? He is not a nice person.",
"I didn’t dive too deep but hopefully this restores some of your sanity\n\n“Shelby Grossman at the Stanford Internet Observatory told the outlet that the Twitter activity is a mix of genuine support for the young man and suspicious activity likened to Middle East digital marketing firms.\n\nAccording to the Times, Twitter recently suspended around 900 accounts that posted about Herrin for violating the company’s platform guidelines, erasing around 90,000 of around 100,000 tweets in support of Herrin.”",
"There's an old video doing the rounds right now of Linkin Park doing a similar thing. I have a Slayer live album where in between songs you can hear Tom Araya telling the crowd to watch out for each other in the pit. I remember a video I saw ages ago of some English band yelling at a guy they saw in the audience groping the woman next to him and refusing to continue playing until the bouncers removed the guy from the venue.\n\nTravis Scott is a piece of shit that allowed this to happen and he deserves to rot in prison.",
"I think is only in Spotify sadly",
"While he bows down to authority to have his little show\n\nAlso this is what happens when you grow up on roblox",
"What a bunch of haters. Maybe he saw the ambulance . So what? Doesn’t mean he knew 8 ppl were dead.",
"The Android back button has greater functionality though - I don’t own one so this is from reading, etc. but it’s more at the OS level so “back” can be back to the home screen if you opened an app or can “back” can close the popover you just opened, etc. \n\nIt seems pretty useful and I can see where some people would really miss it if they were used to the functionality.",
"Wtf? Your points aren’t factual. They are quotes of a speech and you’ve interpreted(like popular media outlets) it as incitement! That’s called interpretation not fact you fucking idiot haha. Pathetic\n\nYou know incitement is cut and dry? It’s not up for you to interpret. It’s actually pretty clear it wasn’t incitement. Also, nice cop out, “ofcourse they would never charge trump with anything that he did wrong but he broke all these laws”. \n\nThat’s what I mean by delusional. Hold your leader accountable if he broke the laws of your nation, you pathetic excuse of a citizen.",
"Lol, if you think the only differences are the ones you dislike I dunno what to tell ya.",
"Considering music is subjective perhaps do it yourself since they don't know what you're into and this is all just a big waste of time since all you want to do is shit all over a random song to prove some non-existent point anyway?",
"I'm not an apple fan by any means but my pixel 5 makes you do the same \"drag from the edge to the center and I hate it. I think I accidentally trigger it more than I actually use it.",
"Why is this comment downvoted?",
"Guys ppl faint and drug out at concerts ALL the time. Maybe he didn’t know 8 ppl died.",
"Yeah it's called critical thinking you should try it some time. We work on the facts to build a conclusion. The most credible conclusion to draw from the facts is that Trump and his conservative allies drew a massive crowd of his supporters to the Capitol and riled them up intentionally to disrupt the proceedings. Your only counter is \"OrAnGe MaN bAd.\" Keep replying though, you look like a joke.\n\n\nI don't give a shit about the \"legal definition\" of incitement. Trump wouldn't go that far specifically to create wiggle room for dumbass supporters like you to make those arguments, he'll just rail on and on about \"the worst injustice in the history of the nation\" and happily let his supporters take the football the rest of the way. You're not fooling anyone.\n\n\n[AND YES, OF COURSE THEY WOULD NEVER CHARGE TRUMP FOR BREAKING THE LAW. IT'S OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY.](https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/sitting-president%E2%80%99s-amenability-indictment-and-criminal-prosecution)",
"Googling Cameron Herrin was even wilder. The massive amount of foreign social media support was so weird that journalists have looked into and it seems that it probably started as a fake paid influence campaign performed by several middle eastern digital marketing firms. Twitter ended up banning like 900 fake pro-Herrin accounts. But the paid viral campaign worked so well it actually created a real Herrin fanbase on TikTok.",
"That’s why I hate ambulances, whenever I see them trying to “save people’s lives” I’m always like “fuck these guys” /s",
"I was in a tight crush of people years back, 2 people from a 6’ chain link fence with the crush coming from behind and no where to go (we were there to await the return of our local professional football team’s plane, who had just won a trip to the Super Bowl). I was very lucky to have a mountain of a man right behind me. Though I didn’t know him, he had his hands on me, told me “It’s okay baby. I got you. You be ok.” And I can honestly say, he is the only reason I was. This incident was the last time they allowed crowds to meet the returning plane.",
"Fuck that fucking motherfucker",
"So you mean the president/conservatives wouldn’t hold a rally there for any other reason, it’s never been done? Critical thinking only works if you are actually being critical of your own logic. Fucking idiot as usual.",
"\"Good music\"",
"I hope god smites this fool!",
"Thanks, now I’m pronouncing it like lasagne",
"Weird call out",
"They held the rally there for the SPECIFIC reason of gathering a massive crowd of supporters at the exact time the election was being affirmed, to disrupt the proceedings. It's pretty cut and dry, and it wasn't exactly a mystery what a lot of the supporters and speakers at the event intended if you follow their own words or posts on social media. Not what mainstream media says, THEIR OWN WORDS.",
"You're not impressing anybody by pretending not to know who these incredibly famous people are.",
"Okay so his issue is he wants a hardware button and your response is 'suck it nerd'?\n\nPeople are allowed to not love the same kind of phone you have. That goes double when you have someone perceives iphones as having but a single flaw.",
"this is fucking terrifying.",
"The internet has lied to me. Have a nice day",
"Do you have a source?",
"Ok. He’s a piece of shit. We get it. Now let’s see him disappear. Oh wait. He won’t because, people will still buy his music. Same for Chris Brown.",
"Does Travis Scott control the microphone and all of the equipment being used to give the concert? It should have been cut short by management when the event was informed it was going to be a mass casualty event. It went on for over 30 minutes after that. The answer is no one wanted to cut it short because the concert is a huge source of revenue and no one wanted to cut that short- ie. they thought they could get away with it. \n\n\nEdit: to be clear, I'm not saying Travis is a douchebag, and I'm not saying he is also hugely responsible.",
"Uh let’s not act like every time an ambulance is called or shows up it’s a death or dying moment. Bc a large percent are minor injuries. Do not even know who this guy is but as a long term soccer mom in SoCal who has literally watched an ambulance rush on the field for yet another owie boo boo I am not going to act like the 15th stoppage in play of the day hasn’t gotten the finger from me before. No one knows what this guy knew or when so ppl should atop acting like he was standing there, shot 8 ppl, and then flipped off EMS. 🙄\n\nFucking stay home from massive mob scenes. This shit happens when you crowd in thousands of ppl drinking/drugging listening to fucking violent music. Then every one is so surprised when a mob scene happens.",
"Amen. People are trying to look to deep into what he was thinking. The dude is a moron, that’s it. In OP’s video you see the gears really grinding for a minute. But the stupidity is really apparent when all that comes from his deduction is a big ol’ shrug, “hey middle fingers up, hey hands up, hey beat drop!!!”, “attention back to me, yay!”",
"Flick off those rendering aid. What a fucking tool.",
"If you don’t know anything about him how can u make that assumption?",
"Nobody could pick anybody up if they wanted to at this one.",
"So flick off ambulances? Are you for real?",
"Lmfao\nAs if the garbage he \"produces\" is worth the delusion that he actually produces it.\n\nDid you see the video of him roboting over the human carcass being crowd surfed out?\n\nautotune and being a little bitch about your shoe to a 17 year old does not an artist make.",
"Imagine this guy's shit music being the last thing you hear.",
"You flick off paramedics?",
"which video is that ? do you have a link?",
"Pulling her off ambulance on stretcher and no one supporting the top by her head so she fall head first off the stretcher basically",
"\"Majority would stop performing\", that's why dude, you would or will never be a famous music artist, or any kind of celebrity.",
"Dude. You League trolls are getting spacey.",
"What kind of retard flips off an ambulance?",
"he fucking played at the Super Bowl like two years ago he’s not just some rando. I don’t like him either but have you been living under a rock or what",
"WHO flips off paramedics?",
"fwiw, he looked around for like 30 seconds waiting for SOMEONE to come out on stage and tell him to stop. he even spun around looking for a heads up from SOMEONE who is the authority on security matters. He saw nothing and then continued.\n\nthis whole situation is a clusterF",
"i agree with you, i just like the picture.",
">he was instructed to never point the gun at people\n\nHow do you shoot, pun intended, a western movie if you can't point a gun at people?\n\nLiterally 98% of action movies don't follow your gun safety course rule.",
"It looks like he was waiting for confirmation to continue the show. I’m not saying things were handled perfectly I just think it’s hard to say he knew the severity of what was happening. Scott is known for his wild shows. People are bound to be bruised and pass out from exhaustion or drugs but this was something unthinkable. Those videos show legit suffering.",
"I founded league",
"What do you mean no back fiction of course you can go back.",
"No we look at his confused look on his face as he wonders why theres an ambulance in the crowd. The look on his face says, \"Travie no hurty, why pretty light van here? Mean abuwance man making show no fun fun.\"\n\nThe only thing that's obvious is that he's abnormally stupid for a human being.\n\nHe started another song, past all the other evidence that there was glaring reasons as to what was happening.",
"Maybe that should not be a norm? Hmm?",
"Does not give this option on mobile.",
"No no no, I love rap Travis Scott is basic bitch party bullshit with no substance whatsoever. But please pull the race card to try and defend this untalented waste of space who just let people die at his concert",
"Was he doing that because he didn’t care or because he was seeing if possible injured people could do it? He then asked for both hands to go up. Is it possible he was trying to quickly identify people who weren’t ok?",
"I saw a video of him stopping his show, encouraging people to let he passed out guy and the medical cart through, me then after he though the situation was handled he resumed.\n\nThe middle finger was him literally asking if people were okay…",
"surely you have a favourite song of hist though righT?",
"Apple uses slave labor to build their products they could care less about working with people like Chris Brown",
"This man knew people -- fans -- were in trouble, heard fhe sirens, heard the screaming, but his ego and his lack of sympathy turned a blind eye.\n\nAlso, that song was like 18 seconds long, with unintelligible lyrics.\n\npretty pathetic all around.",
"Chris brown doesn’t even make good music is half the irony..",
"The issues you have with the phone aren’t issues for others. You’re welcome to feel that way, but when millions of people *dont* have the same issues you might want to take some time for a little self reflection",
"Then go post it there and see how it does.",
"Lmaooooo\n\n\"Bruh I've been to 15 crowd crushes. Fucking snowflakes have no life experience\".\n\nGo back to school.",
"The Grateful Dead had this shit figured out by 1970",
"That crowd was HUGE. It makes more sense that the show just went on if you look at the full concert video. But I don’t know how they didn’t at least take a break.",
"I’m not defending Travis at all? I don’t know anything about him, nor his music. The person posted that no one had brought up race, and people had. That’s all there is to it. And it happens in every single thread that features a person of color. Reddit gives people anonymity, which brings out the “best”’in people. That’s all I’m saying.\n\nLike, I don’t give one shit about Travis Scott. He seems like a giant douchebag. But color doesn’t matter. Shitty is shitty.",
"Because they don’t care",
"Yes. He didn’t fucking shoot someone. Ugh! What a bunch of whiny asses. He gave the middle finger, so what? That did not cause the 8 deaths. 🙄",
"nah more like \"please Cash App me some money, the squishing there hurt me soo much I almost got PTSD and now i need to go to therapy\"",
"Yup, humans didn't start regularly killing each other until they invented agriculture and started forming large permanent settlements, and it was no longer possible to easily avoid each other like smaller hunter-gatherer tribes did. There is no evolutionary psychology explanation for war, because our species didn't start doing that crap until relatively recently.",
"I didn't know who he was either. Living in another country and different tastes in music make it easy to miss this kind of people.",
">people have already said\n\nOhh people have said? Sounds legit.",
"Yeah, it's back within your current application, or back to the home screen if you just opened an app. The memory is insane too, if I click around on reddit I can go 'back' 20+ times without issue.\n\nLike... I know it's a back button and it seems small but it's a Serious Feature.",
"Oof. I may not want to be a dick about your personal preferences but actually complaining about not being able to turn off important alerts that could save someone’s life? That’s a bold hill to die on",
"I didn’t used to mind U2. Now I hate them with a passion. That album keeps reappearing. I have nothing else in my iTunes, so if I have closed the Spotify app before I get in my car it defaults to iTunes and that fucking U2 album. I can’t get rid of the thing!",
"You sure seem to care.",
"Who. Cares. Flipping the bird is not killing 8 ppl. This pearl clutching shit is ridiculous. OMG! He gave the ambulance the finger! He is a murderer! Give me a break. \n\nFucking homeless families literally sleeping on the sidewalk orp living in parking lots but THIS is the shit you freak out about? Get some perspective.",
"I listen to metalcore, I'm used to reading lyrics to understand them. Lol \n\nMost \"comercial\" rap is about cars, money, girls and how fucking cool they are. I dislike that. \n\nRap has a bad reputation lately, he's right about that. \nBut there are still more than enough rappers who don't act like this piece of shit. Especially if you dig a little deeper and search for lyricists. \n\nMumblerap is shit. It's literally only about money and they don't even act like it isn't.",
"🚑:arrives. \nTravis’s brain cell 🗿yeeeaahhhHhhhH",
"We're lovers of loving love....",
"I dont think he knew what to do… he has fans that would be incredibly selfish and mad if he stopped it and other people like us that think he handled it bad. Hes was clearly in shock but i think the problem is the people not him.",
"That still hits them in their wallet, especially.",
"Complete lack of humanity",
"That sentence makes zero sense, and by most I mean most actual performers not most people.",
"... I'm reminded of that video from Event Horizon. The orgy in the hell dimension?",
"it's ... in the op video ...?",
"Apple consistently has higher customer satisfaction than their competitors and their OS is consistently rated the best mobile OS. You are objectively wrong and you’ve let your inability to perform simple functions on the OS cloud your judgement.",
"Large crowds are the most dangerous thing there is. \n\nThere is no escape from a mob when it turns hostile or panic sets in. \n\nBeing crushed to death or trampled is a horrible way to go i imagine.",
"Yes it makes sense, you don't understand that they have to put themselves in a specific state of mind to perform in front of such many people. At least put some blame on the fucking stupid crowd, or security guards. You all act like Travis himself killed all those people.",
"Its not my taste personally. You can call his music trash all you want but you cannot deny that a large amount of followers.",
"I had no idea at the time or before I went that the target audience was that age. It’s so crazy.",
"I think everyone is (understandably) feeling vengeful and wanting to pin blame on him. I totally get it and he should absolutely experience consequences for his inaction. But from a public safety perspective we always need to step back and ask how do we actually reduce the likelihood of this happening again. And the answer is not a brief flare up of anger against a particular performer, because let’s face it — popular music performers are not uniformly paragons of level headed, non-drug-and-alcohol-addled, non-narcissistic-assholes who always carefully weigh the consequences of their actions to others, and never will be. So the way we actually keep this from happening again is making changes to regulatory system of how we manage events like this one.",
"I am shocked that a dude that looks like that turns out to be a piece of shit. Just shocked",
"Right! Also I believe it was ticketmaster we got the tickets through or if not it was live nation which I think is owned by ticketmaster now. Not too sure.",
"There's a lot of people alive in that video. A lot of people who would, in fact, reach for tiddy with their dying breath. Not everyone is out of their element in that video and that's the truly fucked up thing.",
"I wear hats every single day. The hat is not your issue",
"It happened at roskilde in 2000 when pearl jam played. Since then barricades are mandatory at every festival or big concert in Europe.",
"Artists as well as Travis have been charged and sued for inciting a crowd in an unsafe manner before, he did this here multiple time by telling people to break in, being tons of the medical issues and then telling the crowd to rage harder and brought Drake out. It’s also his festival. \n\nHe does 100% deserve more than some blame for the general culture, he could of stopped people from being killed but he chose to say fuck that, he has children’s blood on his hands like the others at HIS festival \n\nHe’s a piece of shit who knows exactly what he was doing, this isn’t the first time this is just the sad inevitable end of how much little he’s constantly shown he cares about the crowd.\n\nEdit: WOW you are in multiple subs doing some insane damage control for Travis lmao dude he’s not your mother stop defending him like and trying to pass the blame like it is. Fanboys are weird.\n\nAnd I see you also imply he’s being blamed because racism lmao dude what the fuck",
"I'd say they both have terrible lows but 9 has almost no high points. At all. Like any scene you look back and remember fondly. Maybe Kylo's last \"talk\" with Han Solo? That's it.\n\n8 was not great but the scenes with JUST Daisy and Adam were great, their acting and chemistry and emotion were so strong.\n\nThe whole Poe/Finn/Rose plot is trash.",
"When you make Axl fucking Rose look like a mensch.",
"I didn’t know Travis scott",
"This is so sad and unfortunate true. \n\nI use to be a fan, I’m not so much anymore but as shitty of a person as Chris Brown is, the dude is an insanely talented artist with vocals to spare. Travis on the other hand, yeah I don’t know any of his music but I have to believe that it’s complete garbage and I hope (like the other person said) that his career never recovers.",
"Yeah I watched the first few minutes of the video and was like this is not as described",
"This is disgusting",
"Does it take talent for autotune or is that something anyone can do?",
"You aren't self aware in the slightest are you? There's nothing complex about this, your upset, calling everyone trash, saying you hate something yet getting a rise out of whining, people don't typically do that if they aren't upset. \n\nI've entertained it longer than I should have. I genuinely suggest quitting this site if you feel that bad about it, if it is provoking you to lash out, then it's toxic.\n\nI'm done here, good luck again.",
"Ok",
"Are you actually looking for help or just looking to rant? It's cool if you want to rant but don't mix that in with asking for help.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nI work at an IT firm and absolutely hate people like you. Like I get it something annoys you, but when someone is trying to help you don't rant at them.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nMake a decision either you're posting to rant or looking for help, don't mix them together.",
">you would or will never be a famous music artist,\n\nThat is nonsensical. Just saying \"you never will be\" makes sense. Adding would is silly.\n\nCrowds can't be blamed, they aren't sentient. If one person turns against the crowd they'll be crushed. Crowds cannot be controlled by people in them, it's why riots are so hard to stop.\n\nSecurity, absolutely they get blame.\n\nBut! There's one person that controls the energy and flow of a show more than anyone else. That's the performer. That's why when someone gets hurt and the performer sees it, they pause the show. Travis saw the ambulance, even said \"oh hey look an ambulance\", and then said let's shake the ground. That's incitement and it's fucking stupid.",
"Indeed yours is",
"How the fuck are you dumb enough to work with this guy if this is true.",
"I dont even listen to travis scott, keep projecting 😂 So unaffected you're still responding a day later. Go yell at some kids for having fun or something.",
"Nah he blows lol",
"Yes society. Your leaders and those you idolize do care about you. Keep giving them money and keep making them famous.",
"Nah he blows lol",
"You have terrible communication and social skills.",
"Lou is a woman lol",
".. I'm clearly in the minority .. but super terrible things happen at concerts. A lady was gang raped at a Limp Biscuit concert at some festival years back. I think what makes this so unique is there is so much video footage and we can see more details. We don't know if Travis Scott knew people died.",
"Have never heard either and never will especially after this… trash human makes trash “music”.",
"Tell me you haven't followed the case without telling me you haven't followed the case",
"Did that thug with the microphone screaming pee in his pants? Looks like it.",
"What I don’t understand, as I’ve been *in* crowds like this, is how they got on the floor to begin with? The crowd surge I was in a couldn’t get my arms above my waste. I was leaning at a literal 45degree angle and still couldn’t fall over because the crowd was packed so tight. \n\nNot questioning it, it’s a terrible tragedy that happened, but I’m just dumbfounded with how they actually ended up under such a packed crowd\n\nEdit; to add, some of the videos of the crowd are just plain embarrassing. That video of them all trampling each other to get through the gate to the show was disgusting. No amount of “crowd surge” can be to blame for that, and personally I would have left after seeing that disgusting display of inhumane actions",
"Haha. Got me that",
"Why? Are you really that racist that you just can't stand the though of being near one of us? This incident has exposed so many racists.",
"Um yeah doesn't he like know how unrealistic that is??",
"This isn’t a mosh pit nor is it a metal show. Big shows like Wacken have their shit together, the artists and fans have an overall respect for each other’s safety",
"Yeah this dang rap is so angry, these kids should go listen to some nice audible 90s music like Rage Against the Machine or Nirvana.",
"Mk ultra bro 🤦🏽♂️",
"What a horrible unaware person",
"Check Loveparade 2010 in Germany. One of the Worst Tragedy ever imo. So damn Sad",
"Nobody deserves to die for their choice in music, no matter how poor a choice, but c'mon! Look at the crowd. The sheer number of people should've told anyone with a lick of common sense not to wade in. Not to mention, what his schtick is known for. I doubt many of those folks are the \"pardon me\" types who give polite way to each other. Stay home and buy a CD.",
"I don’t like him from what I read, but it looked like he had concern even if it was fake concern you would see from someone with a personality disorder.\n\nI’m not sure why he asked for middle fingers to go up. It would have been a better idea to ask fans to put hands up if people around them look injured.",
"Exactly, and that responsibility falls squarely on the promoter. In reality he is working for the festival, and it’s their job to have emergency procedures in place. \n\nBefore he started playing again, I thought he was being clever and doing things to engage the crowd and keep them where they are while things got sorted.",
"From his shitty response, it looks like he probably thought it was a police car.",
"Stfu and listen to your auto tune homie",
"[BYOB- Bring your own Bodybag!](https://www.viagogo.com/Concert-Tickets/Rap-Hip-Hop-Reggae/Travis-Scott-Tickets?AffiliateID=49&PCID=PSUSBINCONTRAVI9AF388789F&AdID=83425610582577&gclid=ac876bd6090d15ef0cb40a5c7213ca2b%2cac876bd6090d15ef0cb40a5c7213ca2b&ps_p=1%2c1&ps_ag=1334807574822292%2c1334807574822292&ps_tg=kwd-83425749329853%3aloc-190%2ckwd-83425749329853%3aloc-190&ps=%2c&ps_c=386416502&ps_ad=83425610582577&ps_n=s&ps_d=m)\n\nHe is a narcissistic greedy ugly disgrace to music and his fans. 🤮",
"Yeah it takes some talent",
"My favorite place to marinade!",
"Floor seats are boring as hell too..",
"Literally????!!",
"I hope they sue this fucking degenerate for all he's worth",
"Did you not see the video in OP?\n\nGood God is his dick that tasty?",
"Dude, watch the video...",
"Because they care about embarrassment. Lots of people don’t",
"[r/Agoraphobia](https://www.reddit.com/r/Agoraphobia/)",
"How can i not judge the people who idolise him who are at that event?",
"Are these actual accounts or PR accounts?",
"there were multiple stages. i'm guessing the 50k number is just the people at this stage maybe?",
"I can only assume real ones, but nothing is sure these days!",
"He thought police were there. He’s a blm supporter.",
"Travis Scott encouraged people to storm the event and pack more people in than the venue could handle. The Chief of Police warned him BEFORE he went on stage that the situation was dangerous. He continued with the show despite the danger. It was declared a mass casualty event 40 minutes into his performance. He should have stopped the show. But no. He continued on for another 35 minutes with people being crushed and killed. This is now a crime scene.",
"Says the one that hops into a pointless thread to try and defend the one that acted intentionally inflammatory.\nCome on, man. Get over yourself.\nGo and do something productive.",
"\"Whole new sound\" LOL. Sadboy SoundCloud rappers existed before him, he's just the one who broke into mainstream the hardest",
"Hope.in court they find him culpable and responsible and she his ass into obscurity along with jail time.\n\nThe world doesn't need people like this. And shouldn't want them.\n\nFuck every.single.thing about this guy.",
"Bro sometimes I hate being a Reddit user. I forget most of these dudes are cringe fucks",
"The thing that bothers me the most is that we have so much evidence at hand that points to the real perpetrator: Satan, the Prince of Darkness. To lay all the blame at one of his unholy emissaries on this Cursed Earth is to miss the point entirely. To use an overused cliche, Travis Scott was just doing his job.",
"Man I do not know. Someone replied to me talking me to shut my effing mouth. Weirdos",
"Put up a middle finger and start jumping on the trampled victims",
"People have different taste in music and use different methods of streaming *pearls clutched*",
"He is a sack of human shit.",
"But she's a piece of ghetto garbage that no one likes. Innocent people here died. Completely different situation.",
"What a piece of shit.",
"All I can say is I looked him up and he didn't even have a song breaking the top 40 charts in any other countries until like 3-4 years ago and he's only had 2 or 3 top 10 hits. He only made it into the US rap & hiphop charts 6 years ago.\n\nThat's famous for sure but I think people familiar with him are greatly overestimating that fame and projecting the entertainment and social media they follow as a teenager or early 20's American on to way too many people.\n\nI think that's exemplified by you mentioning he's one of the top 10 biggest hip hop artists of the last decade. A lot of people outside of that demographic don't really follow American rap/hip hop that closely, including many other Americans. They couldn't pick him out of a lineup or name a single song. Definitely not more than 1 or 2.\n\nThe truly most famous and well known rappers/hiphop artists of the last decade to most people are guys like Drake, Eminem, Kanye West...artists transcend genre and culture. You don't get posts about them and dozens of responses from people that didn't know who they are 4 days ago because that's ridiculous.",
"He incited a crowd while he knew people were injured and told the crowd to go harder, he incited them to break in to the festival. He has a long pattern of endangering crowds. \n\nThere’s plenty of evidence but you are in multiple subs downplaying it and saying “blame the convenient black man”\n\n>\tBut keep piling onto the everyone hate Travis train, so noble.\n\nYes I will continue to hate a piece of human garbage who has children’s deaths on his hands, keep running to multiple subs to cry racism and defend him, so noble\n\nEdit: for your edit, I’m a creep for looking at your profile on display for everyone? \n\nNah it’s just I’ve seen many people like you lately and know they aren’t just giving an opinion, they are invested in downplaying it. If you don’t like people seeing what you post then don’t be ashamed of it.\n\nSeems I struck a nerve pointing out you are on multiple subs defending him like it’s your mother lmao yes I’m a live nation fanboy",
"You can find a solution while still putting blame on those directly involved. There have been an uncountable amount of shows that have been more than double the size of this crowd that didn’t end in tragedy. But hey, those crowds were a different type of music and were a lot less rowdy. It’s absolutely normal to look at differences like this without being some uncalled for “victim blaming”.",
"I checked the sub a few days ago and a considerable amount of comments said he didn’t do anything wrong there so yeah….",
"Calling it now, they will all walk free",
"I mean maybe but not no Queen level of talent. No where close. Anyone can watch an autotune vid on youtube.",
"The only thing that makes me hate him more at this point other then his shitty music and personality is just what went through his head when he saw someone dying on the ground, EMTs working swiftly to resuscitate, and his fans freaking out; and he decided to do the fuckin robot.",
"English is not my first language, but that how I would say it in my language, but that's not the point.\n\n\"Houston Police Executive Assistant Chief Larry Satterwhite, who was near the front of the crowd, said the surge “happened all at once”.\n\n“Suddenly we had several people down on the ground, experiencing some type of cardiac arrest or some type of medical episode,” Mr Satterwhite said.\n\n“And so we immediately started doing CPR and moving people right then.”\n\nSo by your logic, concert should have been stopped immediately even if few people were injured? When it was known that people have died, was Travis even informed by police or doctors?",
"Lets do a risk/benefit analysis of attending a Travis Scott show.\n\nWorst case scenario: you die.\n\nBest case scenario: you have to listen to Travis Scott and most likely envy the dead.",
">He incited a crowd whine he knew people were injured and told the crowd to go harder, he incited them to break in to the festival. He has a long pattern of endangering crowds.\n\nHe stopped the show 4 times when he saw injured people, including making sure the audience made room for an ambulance to get through, but go ahead and keep getting all your information from angry Reddit threads that just want someone to blame.",
"Rap doesn’t encompass popular culture lol…",
"Travis had a front seat to all of this chaos and showed a callous disregard for human life.",
"Ehhhhhhhhhhh",
"Agreed. I would argue part of being an entertainer is crown control.",
"Caught in 4k with no OIS",
"I hope that this asshole falls from grace hard. I hope he is sued and loses millions!",
"RemindMe! 70 years",
"Yo, was this 2010 or 2011? If so, we were in that crowd. I lost my girl friend; she got trampled and we didn’t find her for about four hours. She was okay but covered in bruises and didn’t remember being trampled",
"I pray that his career is forever ruined and stained by this horrible shit",
"Nice 2018 meme brah",
"Barely know the dude, dunno his \"music\" but I pretty much learned he's a major entitled dick with Just a few articles. How does he have fans? Smh",
"Oh damn, I guess lizzos going on my list now too",
"Thank you, happy 2018💪🏼",
"I think that is his main selling point.",
"Right. Noone is saying he's a piece of shit cuz he black. We ain't all goin in on chance the rapper or Kendrick Lamar",
"This guy belongs behind bars",
"America in the same city happened during hurricane Harvey. \n\nBy the time the chumps from the fire department showed up with their whopping ONE boat….there were already 100+ boats rescuing people in the neighborhood. \n\nThese people were from Louisiana, West Texas and Oklahoma. Just showed up. Unannounced. Rescued thousands of flooded families.",
"Ur so k00l",
"There's a video of him at another concert where he loses his shoe to someone in the crowd whilst he's crowdsurfing and he stops the show telling the fans to \"fuck him up\". He's more than just \"dumb\" imo",
"Seriously? Camera guy ≠ Travis Scott. So I have no clue how that couldn’t have anything to do with Travis.\n\nAlso, like Travis, the camera guy is there to do a job, and then suddenly some random people jumped up onto his platform. He probably couldn’t hear them, and for all he knows they are drunk or on drugs. \n\nPerhaps he could have radio’d back to his director, and maybe they could have maybe let someone else know, but you can’t expect the Apple Music streaming video crew to be able to do much. They are in the middle of a live broadcast. The camera guy’s excuse is the same as Travis’. They can’t possibly understand what’s happening and they are there to do a job. There are other people who’s job it is to maintain safety.",
"Why exactly was coca cola the only company in America allowed to import coca leaves? Extract the cocaine ? And use the coca flavor in their product?\n\nWhat exactly is going on?\n\nMy point still stands. It's not just the consumers that decide.",
"TOTAL A.......LE",
">\tHe stopped the show 4 times when he saw injured people,\n\nIf only he actually stopped the show when he was told the issue instead of telling them to rage harder and bringing out other artiest while kids were dying.\n\nKids died and he knew it was happening, your response is “uhm he stopped it then didn’t care and continued!” What a great guy lmao \n\n>\tincluding making sure the audience made room for an ambulance to get through, \n\nYeah no lmao he didn’t smh the fans even danced on the ambulance \n\n>\tbut go ahead and keep getting all your information from angry Reddit threads that just want someone to blame.\n\nNah the info comes from the videos, but keep running to multiple subs like you are his PR manager and are paid to put out fires 😂",
"Travis Scott maybe has half of a brain cell. He is not a smart person. He looked completely out of it and on another planet at that show. He has no regard for human life and his Instagram videos he posted lacked any kind of emotion whatsoever.",
"I worked in concert security for a decade while in college. I have staffed a lot of people for big festivals being put on by live nation. If you think you are safe at a large event, just know over half the people there with “event staff” shirts on are friends of friends who work concerts and have never worked a show before. \n\nMost concert security jobs pay close to minimum wage because they know people will work to see shows for free. That is exactly why I did it. Turnover is supper high. The work sucks for most people because they can’t see the stage, they are stuck in a pass check or bag searching position, left in a parking lot to direct traffic, no one checks on you for hours. This is not what people think the job will be when they sign up to work concerts and the BS the recruiters promise you. \n\nBecause of this, after 2 seasons working, you are pretty much an old hand on the ranch. I was a bigger guy at 20 years old, 6’2” 300lbs, so it was easier for me to work my way into the fun jobs. It takes about 200 people to run gates, seating, parking and stage security for a 20,000 person venue. 10 of those people get to be in the barricade area between the stage and the crowd. There is one barricade supervisor. \n\nAt any given time in a major city you might have 2-3 large concerts going on at various venues. A lot of the seasoned people work for multiple security companies so they can work all the venues. When large festivals come to town, they bring 4x the crowd and need 4x the people to work staff. This is where the problem is. Live Nation will hire 3 security companies, give one gates, one the perimeter and the other gets stages and back stage. All 3 companies basically share a labor pool for supervisors and the good people will work for the company with the best positions while leaving the others high and dry. \n\nThis is how I ran my hustle in college. Live Nation needs 900 people to work a festival. All the local companies can maybe staff half their allotments, so I would get college clubs to volunteer as fundraisers. Pay the fraternity or club directly for how many people they get to work the show. So the same 10 regulars that work normally are in the barricade with 60 volunteers to run 3 stages at a festival. \n\nIf I wasn’t going to work today I could do a full AMA on this. A lot of corners are cut behind the scenes in the concert industry. People should not feel safe attending festivals if they knew how poorly equipped almost all of them are.",
"Put up a middle finger why? Is there anger in the black community toward health workers or paramedics?",
"Respect to the guy who said no to put the hands up!",
"Plays the banger that is upper echelon during multiple medical emergencies 😒😩 why bro?!",
"behavior like this should cost the perpetrator financially and potentially his freedom.",
"Brittania Spears? All hail Lelouch!",
"It takes like a couple seconds to reply to your notification it isn’t that deep lol",
"I can't imagine getting excited to see a artist/show, paying X amount of money, only to be hanging for life to breathe and stand then the artist verbally attacks medical crew and staff trying to help people then wants the floor to shake.",
"What was the point of raising the middle fingers? Was that already part of the song and he was just continuing? Or was it a middle finger against the ambulance helping the hurt people?",
"I was in a wall of death mosh, I loved every second. I got flattened and I felt the hand of god (he she or they must've been huge because I was literally on my feet after 5 seconds and minimal trampling) lift me up and push me back in to the pit. Never saw em, never got to thank em, just pit bros being pit bros.",
"Going back in an app is determined by the developer but it typically is just swiping from the left edge of the display (related to this, you can go forward by swiping from the right edge). So go back to a previous app, swipe right along the bottom edge. To go home, swipe up from the bottom edge. To go to the previous app from the Home Screen, swipe right on the bottom edge. What more do you need?",
"And as soon as someone recognizes you you hit the spaz button. Good to know some things really are clockwork.",
"Him an his girl are lying POS.",
"The sad truth is, given his target audience all this will make him even more popular most likely.",
"Move to Spotify. I have a few artists blocked and never have to give them even the time it takes to skip them.",
"What is a super bowl? \n\n\\- Sincerely the rest of the world\n\n&#x200B;\n\nJokes aside, unless a random titty popped out. The rest of the world does not give 2 shits about a super bowl, least of all some random half time singer.",
"Now do you believe this stupid motherfucker deserves fame",
"**The Super Bowl is the annual championship game of the National Football League (NFL). It has served as the final game of every NFL season since 1966, replacing the NFL Championship Game.**\n\nMore details here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl> \n\n\n\n*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*\n\n[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)",
"Hey believe what you want..Amber Heard released photos of her supposed abuse..turns out she was the abuser..I wasn't there and don't know the whole story...but you continue to just believe everything",
"Now he is saying he is going to pay for the funerals. That is kind of sick and odd. He is trying to offer them what, 10 grand a piece? He is about to be sued for millions a piece. And is it somehow a flex that he can brag about paying for the funerals of the people who die to see him in concert? This whole thing sounds like he wants to make his concerts look like the fans are going crazy for them, like the Beatles or Micheal Jackson. In reality he is just using Twitter to rile them up.",
"People who are defending him need to just back off. \n\nJust finished arguing with this b*tch saying “people didn’t want to leave they where having fun” “it’s their own fault” “travis can’t control anyone” “he wasn’t told to stop preforming” \n\nLIKE UGHHHH can’t argue with these dumb ppl. \n\nI just ended my argument saying I hope she dies a similar death due to karma I know it’s wrong to say that but she got UNDER MY SKINNNNN.",
"Right, I know - I’m typing this on an iPad. Not sure what you’re getting at though…are you saying android users shouldn’t like the back button or it’s different behavior?",
"Nah the music sucks",
"It's the crowd and the artist. Even now I went to a packed TOOL show just before covid and the crowd was heavy. But everyone looks out for one another. Someone goes down, we all pick one another up. Same at huge festivals here in Australia, especially heavy bands. When the mosh gets too much, everyone looks out for everyone else. What Travis allowed to happen here was basically negligent homicide",
"No?!\nWhere did you get this?\n\nI love music, and I love discovering new things. I never heard of this artist before. I wanted to listen to 1-2 songs.\n\nWe don’t all have political goals, propaganda, and all sorts of ulterior motives in mind.",
"The Kardashian family is supporting Travis Scott killing fans more then they supported Caitlyn Jenner and Kanye West running as Republicans. Just let that sink in.",
"Than man in absolutely not know in France. Thank god",
"I was expecting the start of this clip from the guys at [South Park](https://youtu.be/UbqLfNorYS0)",
"Oh so he did after it was already well in there waiting and people were dancing on it for songs? he knew people were injured and the ambulance was there and then continued to incite the crow Till he was ready to give them a minute? What a stand up guy knowing people were dying and continuing his set for the fans till it was convenient for his ego.\n\n>\tLike I said, try reading a news article rather than making sweeping judgements off small clips.\n\n*Read an article quote by a 16 year old*\n\nVideos are lies! Don’t speak bad about Travis! \n\nKeep running to multiple subs and fighting the good fight, an unpaid PR manager must he a shitty job man.",
"Yoooo this guy is such a piece of shit.",
"Separately, wtf it's up with that horrible YouTube interface and how do I make it go back to normal?",
"Aah I see you are also a man of culture",
"Hang this bastard already. The world will be a better place without this cunt",
"Everyone has a right to criticize music regardless of who they are or whether you agree. \n\nI personally find calling any conservative ideal a “boomer” ideal shallow and cringe as fuck, but hey, you can do whatever you want. To be honest, those same boomers had to listen to the same complaints about their new music from the silent generation as well. My gen X dad had the same complaints when emo music rolled around in the early 2000’s. It’s a recurring trend of people not accepting change. Not a boomer issue.",
"So come on take a dip\n\n#CUZ MY POOL RIIIIPS",
"That doesn't make it good music. Just well advertised and delivered to a demographic that enjoys that type of shit.",
"The irony in not realizing that regurgitating “boomer” trends is a full display of shallowness",
"Oh yeah — I am never going to say that people shouldn’t blame or hold Travis Scott accountable for not taking appropriate action.\n\nWe should be able to say, however, that in this situation there are SEVERAL problems that should be blamed. Travis Scott’s poor response, the fire marshals’ poor response, and the seeming lack of a reliable/mandated protocol. We can blame all those things without deflecting blame from Travis Scott.\n\nAnd guess what? If we want to ensure this doesn’t happen again we have a LOT more control over the protocols followed by fire marshals than we do over the character of individuals elevated to popular music stardom. So in terms of concrete meaningful action to prevent another tragedy like this the formal security protocols and fire marshal accountability seem like more productive avenues to me. Sure — sue Travis Scott and take down the fucker. I’m all for that. Just don’t expect that to change the behavior of the next asshole star musician.",
"Jesus Christ. Just watch gears slowly turn.",
"This isn’t an ambulance, it’s a golf cart with emergency lights. You’ve NEVER seen one of those drive into a crowd for some kid who passed out? I find that hard to believe",
"I’m saying that the back button isn’t an argument for Android/against iOS since the functionality is the same.",
"This asshole needs to be put in jail for life and maybe get the shit knocked out of him while he's in there",
"🐕😗",
"This is why I’m never ever going to a concert",
"Are you retarded lol.",
"My guess is he doesn't care about people close to him either.",
"Yeah, I keep seeing this argument about metal shows and remember the two times I ever attended metal shows and got repeatedly groped. I wasn’t crowd surfing, either.",
"Ok so that is unacceptable to you. I understand that. My question is what is acceptable to you? What form of consequences do you deem appropriate for Travis Scott? Is everyone upset about his obtuse callousness doing it for useless internet points?\n\nEdit: ok I looked into it and there is a fair amount of bullshit around this. You’re right sorry.",
"Idk, there's been many vids posted on reddit about singers caring for their passed out/injured/in danger fans, and none of them had someone whispering to their ears. There weren't even ambulances and they still noticed. I think you are giving this guy way too much credit.",
"I wouldn’t go as far as saying he has knowledge on music theory. Rhythm, yes, but I don’t see Travis Scott ever busting out any 7/8 time signatures on purpose. \n\nRap is pretty basic when it comes to instrumentals and really only delves into the vocal world, which is the major turn off for me. I’m a drummer and I’m not into hearing the same beat over and over for 3+ minutes. \n\nWhen it comes to production.. when you have that kind of money it ain’t hard to learn production. In fact, it’d become rather routine after for him at this point, especially if he’s stealing beats (I don’t have any evidence of this, just going off what you said).",
"Honestly, I don’t really know the exact details behind how it works, but I believe it is a proper paid amount per post. That’s what’s stated on several articles including a BBC article from 2 years ago. \nYou’re free to look it up.",
"Anyone else remember the Chuck Mangione Massacre? Late 90s, massive explosion and stampede at one of his concerts, I believe it was in a store parking lot.",
"“ItZ LIT”",
"Most people aren’t, you’re right. A few are, and they’re the most vocal ones. My only point is that it happens, and it’s also not always where you can see it. I’m not sure which of my comments people took the lost offense to, reddit has tons of crappy people on it. I just think some people get triggered when they’re forced to acknowledge that racism exists.",
"Please write a negative review on google for Tri Star sports and entertainment, Lou M. Taylors event company who could have cancelled the event as the accident happened. \nAfter alll this scandals, how is this company still legally allowed?",
"This is both untrue, and completely descriptive of the issue that is a plague across our society.",
"Mechanism? It’s called a body, that you can use to go out and tell the bag of rocks to stop playing",
"Ok",
"I would say it’s amazing this scum bag actually has fans but the majority of his fans are scumbags too so it makes sense.",
"hey dude your racism is showing watch out. he does that as an intro to a lot of his songs.",
"Sure, I’m very upset about my neighbors in this society being trash people. I guess I expect more, jk I don’t. I’m sorry but I consider you quit this site if you genuinely believe you have a grasp on how others actually behave or are feeling based on your very mature perception. \n\nI think you fail to understand how misguided you are on the person you think you’re talking to, and how trashy each person in 85/90% of these subs are. Btw, it’s not a significant amount of the general public who discuss shit on Reddit, it’s the delusional bunch who enjoy ‘gaslighting’ others. \n\nBtw ima report you for being so toxic!!! (Jk that’s you thinking people actually think like that)",
"I can’t tell, but it looks like there’s a point where a woman is straight up being groped in that video. WTF.",
"That’s what I keep saying and all everyone does is regurgitate what a crowd surge/crush is. Like, I know, I’ve been in one and so have millions of other people throughout a long history of festivals. It’s not some new concept but it’s the buzz phrase of the week so everyone thinks they’re experts now",
"Fuck that guy and fuck his music. No talent.",
"How do the boots taste today?\n\nI’m all seriousness, congrats on finally admitting you’re a fascist. It’s the first step to not being a piece of trash",
"This has happened at nearly every concert I’ve ever been to, and idk how these tragedies aren’t more common. Warped Tour back in the day was terrifying at times. I’d turn around and see people grinning while shoving you as hard as they could, which would cause a wave of people to just shift. At one point, I wasn’t even touching the ground. Just floating around as the crowd surged.\n\nFuck the front of crowded concerts. I’ll be in the back with a beer.",
"With the way this crowd has been described there wasn’t enough room for mosh pits.",
"The dude looks like the has the computational power of a nickle.",
"✌️",
"[nah](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qojpzu/travis_scott_crowdsurfs_then_as_a_kid_allegedly/), that isn't [\"OK\"](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qo1eqk/travis_scott_sings_as_he_watches_security_carry/) - wtf is wrong with you?",
"This guy lacks any empathy at all. And this is an idol for kids? Fuck that.",
"Are you alright?",
"probably lean",
"No… are you stupid",
"Had no idea who this guy was before this event. Sounds like crap and looks at his feet when he yells into the mic. Everything about that was cringe worthy",
"Oof, and the evidence gathers",
"It's free with my phone plan 🤷♂️",
"It's free with my phone plan 🤷♂️",
"Pack it up boys, we're done here.",
"Hindsight's 20/20, but having that many people together is a liability, with each person adding an increased risk for physical accidents, targeted, and random violence. The partial probabilities all differ (chances are a given person is more likely to get into a 1-on-1 drunken fight vs. be a mass-shooter vs. fall and hit their head), but the point is at a certain population, certain evens begin to become *inevitable*, and one-in-a-million events suddenly feel a lot closer.",
"U2 didn’t kill people like Travis scott",
"Stage manager should've show stopped. It's on Travis for sure but the SM should've done something.",
"For a guy who needs ambulance rides from time to time, why don’t you flip off your ambulance guys when they come to pick you up next time?",
"Better than that poor chap Travis Scott killed with his shitty autotune gurglings.",
"I know Spotify, but I'm not an avid listener.",
"The back button on android is much much much better. It is more of go back in time button. Accidentally click an ad on an app ? Back button will take you back to the app and close the chrome window that it opened like it never happened.",
"I have a feeling that he had someone like this around, but fired that person, and instead decided to surround himself with yes-people and kiss-asses who just validate his choices\n\nHe’s about to have a kid with Kylie Jenner. That should tell you",
"Look man, I know arguing on the internet is the most important thing in your life right now but I just don't care. The crowd situation was terrible and Travis Scott is a terrible person that should be held accountable for his actions, I just like his music and think he's a good producer. Take a deep breath, everything is going to be okay, donate to the families or something instead of trying to incite things out of anger on reddit, have a nice day stay away from Travis Scott concerts",
"GTFO with that. People died.",
">everything is going to be okay,\n\ntell that to the 8 people he killed, and the tens of others that were injured. \n\nStop patronizing shitty, talentless billionaire sociopaths.",
"Its good for when you go down a reddit rabbit hole of links. Sometimes I'm 10 pages deep and want to get back to the original thread I was reading with the context I now have.",
"Not if you care about things like, say, compelling character development.\n\nBoth Rogue One and the Mandalorian are schlocky entertainment for people who bark like seals whenever they see something they recognize.",
"he says \"wtf is that\" he thinks it's a police car. ride that hate train everyone! YAY FREE INTERNET POINTS IF I DO LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES!",
"You're defending that piece of shit? Something wrong with you...",
"He’s the highest in the room wdym?",
"The people who climbed up on stage had the kind of primal fear you see at emergency scenes all the time. You can watch it just break the one woman when nobody listens.",
"Surprised you could even type this out while gargling on Travis's cock.",
"You really should save Pascal case for classes",
"You can do the same on iOS with a swipe on the bottom edge of the display.",
"Look how hard he is guys. Just look at that hardness. Everyone wants to be so hard. He so hard. Hard.",
"It will be so gratifying when this clip is played in front of a jury.",
"I keep seeing this dumbass comment and I've been to multiple rock/metal shows, one with Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead, where people have seized or passed out and they just keep on playing.",
"I understand there is good intent on showing how much of a shithead this garbage man is…….but bad publicity is still publicity. Can we stop posting about him now? The only way to make someone irrelevant is to stop making them relevant.",
"When did he flip anyone off firstly secondly if he was to cancel it, wouldn’t there be a huge possibility of people dying from people trying to speedrun out of there, i guess i must not have all the details but i dont see how it was entirely his fault and hes a piece if shit. Im not a fan or anything and i hate his music but i dont see why hes in the wrong.",
"The worst part is that some the people who died were probably standing up, they were just being crushed so badly that they couldn’t breathe, and the people around would’ve known what was happening and not able to do anything as well.",
"These festivals should put barriers every 10 or 20 meters so they can control the crowd in a more efficient way. This should be a lesson on how to prevent tragedies like this one.",
"also fucking get U2 off my damn itunes wtf",
"You would think a security guard would know better than to cause panic? There’s got to be protocol to follow in that situation, right?",
"Ok",
"Travis Scott is a scumbag.",
"If you’ve ever read anything about snotty rockstars at concerts, there is **no one** that can tell them they need to continue.",
"WHOA... C'mon, man!",
"Yeah, but that’s only if you are not a total piece of shit and respect other humans.\n\nI saw someone do that at a punk show (TSOL) in Santa Cruz people were stage-diving and some aggro drunk prick did this (albeit he didn’t take the douchey running start), someone grabbed him and told him not to do that and on the second time a few from crowd beat the living shit out of him and chucked him out the vets hall.",
"1 Fuck talent, talent is overrated. \n \n2 Who cares if its ‘Queen level of talent’. Up your own ass lol.",
"Has Travis no brain? Blue lights = stop the show.\nWhy did no one backstage cut the music?",
"I hope this asshole loses his career over this what a piece of shit",
"well, I don't know which apps you use, I do know that Apple bans this. there has to be a simple way for the user to go back, not just a gesture, but a button that has a design that looks like a back button or some kind of that. Apple doesn't pass these apps to the App Store. \n\nsent by an Apple Developer account holder. \nsource: Apple's UI guidelines",
"Yeah, I don't know why someone would downvote this. I don't particularly enjoy his music myself but to deny his popularity is just absurd.",
"Wendy, stop saying hella.",
"So what you're saying is, that I'm a total liar or that I'm too stupid to know what I'm seeing isn't actually real?\n\nI hope you thanked that big dude that picked you up off the floor so that you didn't get trampled. So you didn't see that as him helping you out? Sounds like he might have saved you some serious pain. I hope you bought him a drink.\n\nAlso since you only mentioned 'rap' Curious what your experience is at country shows? To me those are the worst, by far.",
"I fucked her",
"ya, but that's Reddit's fault, not Apple's.\n\n-guy who bought an iPhone because he got tired of pouring money into android phones that didn't work and who doesn't care if there's an Apple or a different logo on the back of his phone",
"Why does everyone shit on the US so badly? I mean obviously my country is a shitshow but several of their countries are worse",
"Wouldn't the premium for a house on fire be roughly the cost of a house? So if they settle these lawsuits for 300 million wouldn't the cost for insurance going forward be roughly the cost of a high liability 300 million premium? I can also guarantee this money will not come from the insurance companies for this incident because Scott created an unsafe environment by tweeting at fans to storm the gates. Basically they will be able to get insurance but his tickets are about to quadruple in price. Not too many people can afford 4 grand for a festival.",
"Fuck I hate “shorts” - is there any way to play this as a regular video?",
"I used to go to punk, metal and rock concerts as a teenage girl and often felt unsafe. I hated mosh pits and saw lots of people getting injured in one. Sometimes that seemed to be the actual intention when people went in, to hurt and get hurt, it was weird. I have also always had people help me, but I think people exaggerate a bit in these comments. Metal crowds are not a homogeneous mass of peaceful moshers where everyone cares about each other.\nAlso, I read enough comments now from people who where in that disaster who tried to help, they just didn't stand a chance. The audience didn't want to crush people to death at this concert, Scott and everyone else involved in the organisation of that festival criminally failed them.\nThe video of the girl making it up stage to alarm the people and just being dismissed is heartbreaking.",
"Yup. Or giving him your $500-$1000 for tickets and then he openly encourages those without tickets to break into the concert and jump barriers into VIP areas where people pay a lot more to be. Travis Scott does not give a single fuck about his fans, just their money",
"You can white knight all you want but people have a right to defend themselves.\n\nRihanna is a piece of shit just the same as Chris Brown.\n\nIf you think that women have a right to beat men with no consequences you’re pathetic. Just buy a prostitute bro Rihanna isnt going to read these comments and sleep with you",
"I think it’s fair to say these two fine upstanding gentlemen are not regularly chairing Mensa meetings.",
"This is who you idolize...? Damn.",
"That bouncer (if he lived) should have received more time in prison than the tour manager that pled guilty.",
"Can someone explain the situation and why this is different from other concerts? How come more people arent crushed in big crowds more often? Did travis Scott tell people to do it or something",
"Yeah, I was just talking reddit reactionaries, and their need to feel superior about things they like. Real life reactions and consequences I don't know where I stand yet. I can see you confusion as my comments may not read well without vocal inflection",
"HPD? Who has Histrionic Personality disorder?",
"Cancel. Travis. Scott.",
"That part is so ironic.",
"Being a medic and not being able to get to/find someone who is dying is also a terrible feeling. Trying to get help for people and not being listened to. There’s a LOT of ways other than dead people will suffer from this and having been on similar positions to some degree it guts me. It was preventable.",
"Yeah, I remember falling down during an Attack! Attack! show at warped tour. It was like a dark tunnel of people with a small amount of light at the end. Instantly I panicked but thankfully there was a hand reaching through within 5 seconds to pull me back up. Shit is scary. Can’t imagine in a crowd of 55k people",
"I made it to 2:07 before turning it off. The woman at the start screaming 'WHERES MY HUSBAND?!\" Is fucking heartbreaking.",
"I just opened a chroma link from sync and tried the swipe left and it did not work. It only works if you are still inside the same app.",
"to his own fans that need help too. what an idiot, I hope he fades into oblivion but if his fans react like this, I doubt it.",
"I'm saying what I just said. That there are good and bad people at all different types of shows. The example I gave of the guy helping me out was a rap show. I'm not saying rap good, metal bad; I've had similar experiences at plenty of metal shows. Just saying it's a bit of a ridiculous assertion (and it's all over this thread and others on this topic) that metal is some flawless community that always looks out for each other and rap is full of evil degenerates. \"Without fail, the heavier the metal music being played at the show... the kinder the audience members are to one another\" is just straight up untrue.\n\nCan't say I've ever been to a country show but I'm sure they have their good and bad crowds as well.",
"He's been arrested twice for inciting a riot...\n\nhttps://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/11/08/travis-scott-history-of-inciting-chaos-lollapalooza-2015/\n\nEncouraged a fan to jump from a 5th floor balcony.\n\nhttps://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/travis-scott-encouraged-culture-violence-tweet-lawsuit\n\nDeleted tweet encouraging people to jump the barriers.\n\n\"Video from the Lollapalooza concert showed Scott yelling, “Everyone in a green shirt get the f–k back!” referring to the security separating the crowd and the stage and starting a chant of, “We want rage!”\"\n\n\n\n“I always want to make it feel like it’s the WWF or some s–t,” Scott told GQ.\n\n\"The performer played one song and then began telling fans to come over the barricades,” said the Office of Emergency Management in a statement. “Due to the security's quick response, the situation was remedied immediately and no fans were injured. The performer fled the scene and was taken into custody a short while later. \"\n\n\n\nLike fuck is it that hard to look shit up dude. I bet you defend Chris Brown lol",
"I'm talking about this show.",
"I already didn't like SRO shows because my knees are fucked, but after seeing stuff like this, it only reinforces the fact that if I can't get seats at a show, I ain't goin. People have lost their damned minds.",
"Oh no. A Star Wars movie that schlockey entertainment.\n\nUnlike... all of them?\n\nThey are all pulp adventure schlock. Mando and R1 are *really well made* pulp adventure schlock.",
"In addition to your point, folks are quick to upvote without proper assessment of all details. The video few days ago with a lifeless body being carried out while Travis is in the background saying “yeeaaahh”. Reddit lost their fucking minds. Watch the whole video and you’ll see he’s asking to get that person help. \n\nOne of the top comments in this thread says Rhianna nearly lost her life to Chris brown with a ton of upvotes. Not justifying Chris Brown but the man was held down and strangled with bruises on his neck to prove it. Sounds like Rhianna showed him she’s not taking shit without giving it back. \n\nThis place can be a wealth of knowledge and a den of hyenas at the same time. Got to love Reddit.",
"No. I love a lot of new music. Probably more new than old tbh",
"I do not want that music playing at my funeral",
"Exactly. I love rap artists. But this guys music is complete trash. And I think you have a good point about the concert scene itself",
"I've been to a lot of shows and this is not any way to treat what went down by an artist. Being a metal guy I've attended a lot of metal shows, and I can tell you that the artist would at least stop the show until the ambulance did what they needed to do, then they'd play their song. This was not handled well at all. They'd probably even mention to make room for the ambulance.",
"Just going to have to disagree with you there, perhaps there is a reason you see it all over this thread. Obviously people are people, there always is an asshole or two in every crowd, and everyone's experience will vary, but in my experience, the quote you dispute, is just straight up fact.",
"I literally don't like amy of Travis Scott's music, not a fan boy in the slightest, think the while situation was pretty fucky there that night, but he most certainly did not tell the crowd to flip off the ambulance. He told them to put their middle fingers up in the sky. Good look? Nope, not at all, but don't bastardize what is a bad look and turn it into something else",
"i also think the crowd for rap concerts are much more rowdy. I been to music festivals where people are squished together but everybody is calm and chill.",
"The fastest way out in large crowds like this. So security can get you and attend to you.",
"Imagine seeing an ambulance and not helping them get to the emergency. Do we not pull over when you see one on the road? What makes a concert different? What kind of a brainless shithead excuse of a human being doesn’t have that kind of decency and common sense to fucking help someone get the help they need. So disappointing and frustrating…",
"So I’m pretty much that he wasn’t just a performer for this show, that he was part of the organizing group. \n\nAnd you don’t need a contractual obligation to become liable, your personal actions are enough.",
"Yeah I really don’t get this narrative that like metal shows are one big family.",
"I don’t even really listen to him but go off i guess lol",
"I think after last few years we all know racism exists. And the few that don't never will. At this point you're just preaching to the choir and the moron who will never attend the church",
"Dude’s a loser.",
"His music sucks hois he famous",
"Nonsense, he clearly was dead serious about checking on that one strangers opinion 70 years from now.",
"Assholes. I'm not quite sure what the middle hi her thing was about, but this one s a really good example of making poor choices for one event - including everything that led up to it.",
"Houston Police Department",
"The comments are very weird but not surprising. A lot of Redditors especially r/Music have such a hate boner for Travis Scott prior to the incident. This is their way to say that rock music and their fans are far superior 🤷♂️",
"Oh yeah fuck talent. You’re one of those everyone gets a trophy schmucks.",
">perhaps there is a reason you see it all over this thread\n\nOh there definitely is.",
"This is incridible",
"Yeah, I’m noticing this trend of “rock/metal does concerts the right way” on all of the Travis Scott posts. But it’s not like people never get injured at rock or metal shows. IME women and minorities have a tough time at these shows. It kind of feels like a bunch of white dudes looking down on TS fans because a lot of them are young, female, or POC. That’s just the vibe I’m picking up, not sure if there’s anything to it. We all see things through our own lens of experiences though.",
"Yes it is. As was already explained, the back button functions at the OS level and can cross app boundaries with an insane memory. It has functionality far greater than Apples swipe back.",
"Stfu and listen to your auto tune homie lol",
"Yes that's what I was referencing lol, it's silly to act like there is anyone to blame but Travis Scott and his employees",
"Yes I understand that. That’s why I said “Spotify alone”. As another example it has 948 million views on YouTube. I’m sure it has hundreds of millions of plays on whatever your preferred platform is. The album was nominated for 8 Grammys. Even the term “Sicko mode” was a meme. It just seemed like one of those unavoidable pop culture things. Kinda like Despacito. Which for comparison sake, has 1.3 billion streams on Spotify.",
"Thanks for claring that up! Why did they drop a dead girl on her head?",
"There are far too many people who have all the fame and none of the brains needed to go with it. Think about any celebrity who got \"cancelled\". All they would need to do to keep the respect of the public and their peers is not tweet that thing they tweeted.",
"The clip of Adele stopping the show because she didn’t want the effects during the show to cause someone having a medical emergency further harm vs this is…. Not a good look for Travis",
"Wait, so staring at it with your mouth open just enough to let out a few half formed sentences and then asking everyone to put their middle finger up is *not* helpful?",
"There is no „hardware button“.\n\nAnd my response is: Use the better system.",
"In this situation it's the role of the tour manager and venue personnel to take charge of the situation. The TM definitely has the ability to get into Travis Scott's \"in ear monitors\" and tell him to stop the performance until the danger is averted.",
"My guess is that they are fat, american, incompetent cops from Texas with a maximum IQ of 80. I COULD be wrong, but I doubt it.",
"Bruh you gotta be either dumb af or blind as a bat to not be able to tell the difference between an ambulance and a cop car.",
"Everyone acting like they're identical has clearly never used an android device, which makes their responses quite amusing.",
"You do the exact same thing on Apple Music except it says “Suggest Less Like This”\n\nApple has the same feature. Exactly the same, I’ve just checked.",
"This guy must love being the subject of class action lawsuits",
"Nearly beat her to death? What?",
"Fuck this guy fr. I hope he loses his endorsements w/ Nike and any other brands that sell his name. He doesn’t deserve his fame or the position he holds. He then has the audacity to post a bs apology claiming he loves his fans. Ha! Fck this talentless guy. I hope he’s held accountable for his lack of attention or action to do something. Paying for the funeral costs is worth nothing and nothing more than an attempt to salvage his image.",
"Amber alerts actually don't save lives, they clog up emergency lines with false alarms when in almost all cases, the child was kidnapped by a family member. \n\nThey're also horribly timed. I'm not going to go out at 3AM and look for a car from my balcony, and the incident happened hundreds of miles away.\n\nhttps://psmag.com/social-justice/amber-alerts-largely-ineffective-study-shows-4792",
"No one said you should, but that text might bring awareness to the people who are out at 3 am. \n\nYou sound like cops when they just assume a kid ran away when they go missing. Just because that’s usually the case doesn’t mean it always is and there’s no one way to differentiate till after the fact. \n\nReally, arguing that Amber Alerts shouldn’t be alerting your phone is a terrible hill to die on. If that’s how you feel, I’d keep it to yourself or you’re going to look pretty disgusting to the majority of civilization",
"Yeah, as if it had anything to do with the genre of music and not the idiots on stage/in front of it.\n\nI am not Scott's target group and frankly never heard a song consciously. Now that I did, I think it's crappy music. But I have no problems with people making crappy music, usually nobody forces me to listen to it. After a bit of research, Scott seems like a person I would not want to be near to, ever. \n\nBut, I despise people thinking their preferred genre of music is superior. I was a teenage punk, I love old school rap, I adore some songwriters, I listen to pop if I feel like it and solid rock will make me happy. None of that makes me better or worse than anyone else. People need to get over themselves. Taste in music is not necessarily a testimony of character and making it your identity is shallow and boring.\n\nThat being said, fuck Travis Scott for being an irresponsible piece of shit.",
"Fucking trash.",
"Nah, just saying talent is overrated as fuck. Hard work is far more interesting. Furthermore I believe everyone basically has a voice capable for music as long as you keep trying to find something, you will find something. \n \n \nSecond, something like autotune doesnt make it so that anyone can sing no matter what. You have to be a stupid motherfucker born backwards to still think like that, autotune requires you to still hit the right notes and especially in the case of Travis Scott, Ye (fka Kanye West) it is used as an instrument.",
"Steve Aoki would use an inflatable boat so his mass would be distributed more. He ended up accidentally hurting someone and stopped doing it.",
"I'm not the guy complaining, I'm just pointing out that factually, these alerts cause more harm than good.\n\nIt's interesting that after I presented you with data that the program is unhelpful and even harmful that you felt it appropriate to attack my moral character. Do you feel proud of that?\n\nAlternatively, I invite you to present data supporting the case that amber alerts are absolutely critical to child safety and that they certainly do bring valid attention to the problem rather than getting everyone to call emergency lines because they think they saw the car. Please, prove me wrong! \n\nEdit from the article you clearly did not read:\n\n>The system was specifically designed to deal with extremely rare cases like that of Hagerman, where a child is kidnapped by a stranger with the express purpose of doing the youngster harm. According to a 2003 report by the Department of Justice (the most recent data provided), **there were 90 such cases in all of 1999, out of a total of 262,000 child abductions**. The vast majority of child abductions are carried out by a relative or close acquaintance of the victim, often a divorced parent who was not granted custody.\n\nBolded the bit you felt was absolutely irrelevant. Less than a tenth of a percent of abductions are the kind the AMBER alert system was designed for.",
"What a fucking numbskull! You have a microphone in your hand. Tell people to move and get out of the way!",
"I would be happy to die if I had to listen to this type of music.",
"I'm not really a fan of his music, i dont really know. When I first started to hear of this guy a lot, I looked him up and listened to some of his stuff. He was clearly talented at what he did but not what i would listen to. \n\n \n\n\nIts the same with someone like Taylor Swift, very talented and not what Id listen to. Id be pretty shocked if she caused a mass casualty incident at one of her concerts tho.",
"What a disgusting stupid pile of shit.",
"I literally have a top level reply to this thread that says \"props to the girl lifting her top\". You're just unnecessarily aggressive with your language. No one is *deranged* for being concerned for others. That's inherently oxymoronic.",
"What losers!",
"That's not a stage dive that's assault.",
"I wish Gen Z would use their \"cancel culture powers\" to do something useful for once and cancel this entire fucking family.",
"Should go to jail for that",
"Tell me how Travis has anything to gain from people dying at his show and in return I will explain exactly why Livenation cut corners in the safety for this event. Hint: corporate greed",
"I've heard stories, that's one band I have missed due to many unforseen reasons, example, when randy blithe got arrested in the Czech Republic for manslaughter charges.. dethklok still finished the tour though, that is an intense show... also gwar, one of my favorite shows to go to",
"Can't wait to see this POS locked up for his callous indifference",
"Ya he wanted to kill seven people so he could refund everyone’s tickets and take a publicity hit from which he couldn’t recover. Sure dude",
"Have you been to a Scott show? I’ve been to several. The way things work is if he sees something bad he’ll stop and wait- always does. He’ll only go on when he gets word from concert coordinators that he should. This is not on him. He stopped, acknowledged the ambulance, but wanted to keep the crowd in the mood and poorly chose middle fingers. Then he takes to some people before re-starting. Those people 100% had word from the concert coordinators that the situation was under control (was not) and Travis should continue. So he did. While not amazing humans, very few artists are truly apathetic to their fans to the degree being painted here. \n\nIf you were up on stage with poor visibility of individuals and were told by people running the show that it’s all good, I think most people would accept that and start up again. This is the event coordinators fault through and through.",
"He knew about it you dunce. He acknowledged it. After words he spoke to some people on stage. Those people 100% brought word from even coordinators that things were under control (they were not) so he continued. This is not on the artist it’s on the event people.",
"The event coordinators are. Artists are not liable for event coordinators who don’t give signal to pause for a bit to get things under control.",
">\tThis isnt some one time mistake like a straight edged teacher getting drunk after an argument with his wife and killing someone in a drunk driving accident\n\nWhat a stupid fucking example. Everyone knows from the time they get their license that they have a responsibility not to drive drunk. It’s ingrained in our culture as much as in our moral code. Reddit seems to think that because other artists have stopped concerts a hand full of times that this is their implicit job to ensure crowd safety when it absolutely is not. \n\n\nAs soon as the teacher got past an objective BAC he should not have operated a car. Tell me at which point Travis objectively had to stop the show.",
"Kind of different from people getting crushed to death right in front of him",
"Well that's really stupid. Mumble rap is worse than Hitler!",
"He was trying to keep crowd attention while getting an idea of the situation from his crew. Poor method but the middle fingers are clearly not directed at the ambulance. While he did this his crew, liekly on direction of even coordinators, told him things were under control (they were not) and he should continue. This is not on Travis, this is on the concert people.",
"I have. I think the people in those bands can think logically and are capable of empathy. I'm not sure Travis Scott can or is.",
"A study based on numbers from 2003-2006. An article that also states that this service HAS helped in multiple ways regardless of the number of failures. The article even states that there have been cases where the child has been returned as a result of seeing an amber alert issued.\n\nThe numbers given are incredibly outdated, especially seeing as how phone advancement has come along since then. \n\nSomeone said they wanted to get rid of notifications, when I tell them why that’s a selfish idea you stroll along to back up their idea. That comes with a pretty heavy implication that you wouldn’t mind getting rid of them.",
"Lol I’m talking about him looking at an ambulance as he’s asking people to flip off the “nothing In particular”",
"Holy. Mother. Of fuck. That’s gotta be the worst video I’ve seen of the crowd crush so far.",
"So many other artists stop shows because of people getting hurt. Hell, Billy Joe dropkicked a dude from the stage because he groped a 14 year old. There's no excuse for this, he saw bodies being carried out, people breaking through security screaming at him to stop the show, and ambulances being danced on by the crowd. \n\nThis was purposeful, he seems to get some sick pleasure from the fact that people die just to see him.",
"Why are you making shit up? 54 deaths is an insane number to just throw out when there were no recorded deaths and only 51 injuries, which were mainly attributed to clashes with police.\n\n8 deaths *is* a huge number. Stop downplaying what is a massive tragedy.",
"Alright i also don't know who that is but honestly i don't care to find out.",
"This is the correct answer. Thousands of rowdy shows before this in all sorts of musical genres didn’t have the same consequences. It has nothing to do with what kind of music is being played or what the fan base is like. Unfortunately since he’s a rapper it’s a chance for the /r/LeWrongGeneration crowd of reddit to come out and spew dog whistles about the quality of character of rap artists. The sad part in all of it is that if Travis is held responsible and Livenation is let off the hook there will be absolutely no reform for this kind of thing. It will inevitably happen again when some other artist fails to be a hero because it’s not part of job. Maybe next time it will be the Foo Fighters so reddit can’t reel with racist backlash.",
"The staff is hired by or part of Livenation. Livenation has put on thousands of other shows without incident but decided to cut corners. It’s a case of gross negligence",
"Hid baby mama I'd a billionaire. Hr isn't going to prison), that's not the way our justice system works",
"I'm sure his fan base is wider than that, but I could also see him dismissing the crowd because of something like that. That or he is solely focused on himself and putting on a performance to his liking. Whatever else is happening doesn't matter. That may be supported by him seeing the ambulance and simply telling everyone to put a middle finger up....then two.",
"Yup, there’s also a Flatbush zombies song that says they want blood and broken bones. There’s also 1000 metal acts that encourage moshing. You know why they don’t have crushes like this all the time? Because they don’t have shitty event organizers that overpack and understaff the venue. \n\nJesus, you all act like lyrics are gospel. Grow up, it’s art",
"He sees an ambulance, and instead of doing the bare minimum of telling people to cooperate and let them through, literally moments later says \"I want to make this motherfucking ground shake\". Instead of calming them down, he hypes up the crowd even more! I can't fathom that response, it's like he has a single idea in his head about how the concert is is supposed to go and is utterly incapable of adapting to circumstances around him.",
"If we stopped concerts for every medical incident there would be no live music anymore",
">\tWhy are you making shit up? 54 deaths is an insane number to just throw out when there were no recorded deaths and only 51 injuries, which were mainly attributed to clashes with police.\n\nI didn’t throw shit out. It’s what I saw when I searched up the concert, don’t quote me. \n\n>\t8 deaths is a huge number. Stop downplaying what is a massive tragedy.\n\nI ain’t downplaying shit, piss off. I was just commenting what I looked up. When did I downplay 8 deaths?",
"And if you go looking for more recent data, you won't find better numbers.\n\nIf you actually pay attention to the criticisms that the authors are leveling, 3am alerts and the like are exactly the sort of deployments that they take issue with because they consume police resources and desensitize people to the alerts.\n\nBe honest, for just a second - have you ever gotten one of those alerts and changed your behavior at all? Do you start studying the license plates of every car that matches the make and model on the highway to look for matches? Or does it fade to background noise almost immediately because your ability to do anything about it is severely limited by circumstances?\n\nOh, and just because the data is slightly old doesn't mean your absolute lack of data can be accepted in lieu of an argument. You have to realize that's an idiotic line of reasoning. If you want to present your case, find fresh data that supports it. \n\nAnd again. You cast severe moral judgment on me for sharing the interesting tidbit that this program that you clearly feel very strongly about isn't the unalloyed social good you believe it to be. That says more about you than it does about me, none of it good.",
"It doesn’t really matter because there’s no shot he could hear them with full monitors in his ear",
"Lemme ask you, has anyones life been saved by an amber alert?",
"Funk authority. Total retard",
"Come on champ, a delayed/mistake release is nothing compared to 8 people dying at a livestreamed event.",
"Yes, I very much do look out. Just the same as I hope people would if my child were abducted.",
"The iOS swipe is at the OS level as well.",
"I went to see GNR at Milton Keynes in the 90s and i pretended to faint to get at the front ( shitty i know ) it was a common expectance that people would lift you and crowd surf you to the front for water and air. Bunked in the VIP front bit tho",
"Everyone acting like they’re different has clearly never used an iOS device, which makes their responses quite amusing.",
"Did you swipe at the bottom? And it is swipe right.\n\nEdit: I just went and clicked an ad in an app that redirected me to Safari. I swiped right and was immediately brought back to the app.",
"And yet... You still sound like an edgy 14 yr old.\n\n\nWhat are these \"major shifts\" you're referring too. Be specific. See if you can point to actual policies instead of meaningless vague statements you've heard on reddit.",
"Play an R&B song, click create station, eventually you'll have a song by one of them play.",
"Let me ask you, is that the line for government policy? What if it causes more net harm than good? What if an amber alert causes a kidnapper who is related to get away because police resources were tied up responding, or someone else gets harmed because again, police were overly engaged with responding to fruitless amber alert calls?\n\nFor the third and final time, present data to support your case. You still haven't, you've just relied on moral arguments and conjecture. \n\nThe program needs severe work to effectively serve its stated goals, but right now it's not doing what it's meant to do in the majority of cases.",
"Also, “severe moral judgement”? Ahhh yes, telling you that saying you don’t want amber alerts is a weird hill to die on and that majority of civilization will look down on you for that is a “severe moral judgement”. \n\nIt was more advice on how people are going to react to your argument.",
"Flick your thumb up from bottom screen. Easy.",
"At the same time if everybody in a crowd puts their hands up you’ll have arms around everybody’s necks and shoulders. \nLike when you are saving someone from drowning, bring something else that floats, otherwise the drowning person will grab you and bring you down with them. I don’t know what is the best option in a crowd like this. I guess to not have situation in the first place. \nBut please people, don’t grab others, hang your arms over others or hold around others in a concert, unless it’s to get them up on their feet after falling down.",
"Yes totally. The Donda thing is frustrating for fans but this Astroworld thing is an actual tragedy.",
"So you're not even being paid to be a moron?",
"There is a difference between completely stopping and just pausing for few seconds to check if everything is okay",
"The data literally suggests that the frequency and irrelevancy of the alerts desensitizes people to them so that they don't.\n\nLess frequent deployments with more limited scope so that they feel less 'spammy' and targeted would make people care more. Literally this is in the data I presented that you ignored.",
"Your numbers are off a random ass website and again severely outdated. Why should I care about numbers when yours are essentially useless in 2021?",
"The Kardashians really like their Travises!",
"The article links to a scientific journal. Do you have better data?",
"This shit looks boring",
"You can tell someone is talking to him through the ear piece, he stops and just stares for like 10 seconds before asking \"what the fuck is that?\". Whoever is on the other side likely told him to just keep going and not to worry about it.",
"1 and 3 are pretty simple. Artists wear monitors at concerts that prevent them from hearing just about anything but themselves. In fact they cost a lot of money to protect their hearing so thinking he could hear the crowd is a bold assumption. \n\n2.\tIs a blatant falsehood he did stop the show, there’s videos of it everywhere.\n\n4.\tThat’s a camera man not Travis Scott. Idk how that has bearing on what Travis should have done\n5.\tambulances are pretty common at concerts and festivals. Nothing out of the ordinary\n\n\nNow let me ask you a question. Why did security and event organizers repeatedly ignore concert goers pleas? When you blame Travis entirely for this you let the real villains off the hook. Sure, Travis could have helped the situation more than he did but in no way is it his responsibility. If we keep acting like it’s an artists job to keep people safe and no one else’s then inevitably another artist will fail and we’ll have another tragedy. \n\nInstead ask yourself why none of the team decided to cut the mic feed, turn on the lights, or otherwise de-escalate in any way. Event organizers are the ones who are supposed to protect the crowd (in this case Livenation) it is their job and they are the ones who will have to enact change in the future to keep this from happening again.",
"I’ve been to EDC 9 times with way way more people and nothing like this ever even closed to happened. Different crowd for sure!",
"That wasn’t Ebonics, that was drugged out slurring. People can be intelligible regardless of their dialect. Eddie Murphy speaks Ebonics and is still hyper intelligible.",
"It would’ve sounded weird on autotune, no one would’ve taken him seriously.",
"My argument is that we should let data and not moral panics drive public safety measures. Your argument is that actually data doesn't matter because the idea is emotionally satisfying, which is the *exact problem*.\n\nIt's security theater. I want measures in place that actually help, not ones that don't help but make everyone feel good about the effort because we're 'Doing Something'.",
"This is some fucking videodrome level of dehumanization. Pathetic. Fuck this guy and the people that were apart of it that did nothing to help things.",
"Correct we established that further in the thread",
"You just watched a video where he pauses for a few seconds and then wrote your comment. Idk what you want",
"So we shouldn’t have people on the look out for kidnapped children (remember, even family members taking them is kidnapping and can end in tragedy. Don’t know why you keep stressing the family member bit) \n\nThey’re spammy and often because they don’t have time to differentiate between the two. \n\nAll I know, and you can argue your point all you like, is that OP was bothered by a program that COULD save a life. Pretty shitty point to stand on but if you feel like being a heartless asshole by all means stand with him. Evidence I’ve found is over 600 children rescued. Without amber alerts this wouldn’t have happened. To just say “well, it doesn’t always work so why?” Is the same as saying you don’t care about those 600 kids. \n\nBy your logic no public eye should ever be on the look out for criminals because they could send in a false call and take up the police valuable time",
"Buddy of mine in high school got kicked in the face by a guitarist who decided to stage dive with his feet. Broken orbital bone and the foot of his glasses went right through his nose. His face was a mess for over a month.",
"The guy is dumb as fuck and his music is garbage (but that's besides the point). The families of the victims should be sue this piece of trash for all he's got. Maybe, MAYBE, he will learn something out of it.",
"That’s not what you said.",
"Because it’s really fucking common. This jackass is such a fucking amateur.",
"Yes. He literally controlled the microphone and the crowd...he saw the ambulances, saw the people, and still said fuck them. Everyone works for him and the boss said the show goes on. So youre wrong, and definitely part of the problem if you cant hold this guy accountable for his direct actions",
"Because HPD is trash. Look up the Harding Street Raid.",
"Oh because that was a definitive list of every time something bad has happened at a concert? Fucking idiot. It’s a few cherry-picked examples. \n\n\nYou’re making this complicated when really it’s simple. If you put it on an artist who is distracted, possibly on drugs, possibly stupid to begin with, and definitely not trained for crowd control, to ensure everyone’s safety this shit will happen again. If you blame the team of people who are paid money and trained in how to keep people safe and failed to do their job, you might see something good come out of this.\n\nThere aren’t going to stop being narcicistic artists, that’s what makes them artists. But maybe we can stop having inadequate barriers, paramedics, and AEDs at live shows in the interest of saving a buck.",
"He was clearly distressed that all focus and attention wasn't on him. What a trianwreck of a human being.",
"This isnt a just a venue mistake! The fucking ambulance was on its way. He saw what was happening. Stop making excuses for a shitty human",
"Yea…when I got punched in the face by a dude when accidentally being shoved into the mosh pit at some vanilla-ass show, they all helped me up.",
"What about the people in the crowd pushing forward are they responsible for the deaths too? I think they deserve some blame too",
"Disgusting",
"From what I read, the middle finger thing was something he was saying to gauge if people were ok, he said something like “if you’re alright put a middle finger in the air” and then a ton of crowd had their hands up (the crushed crowd from what I understand couldn’t put their hands down because there was no space, so that was a terrible way of gauging) but I think he was genuinely unsure if there was a real problem or not. People get into shit at concerts all the time so if he stops the concert just because one person passed out and had to get ambulanced out, he’d probably stop every one of his concerts at one point. My guess is terrible oversight of safety protocols by venue staff and then no clear decisionmaker on when to call the concert. These things should be well trained and rehearsed by everyone involved. So, I rescind my comment about him needing to be personally responsible unless he was told to stop and didn’t.",
"There’s a video of a girl getting pulled out of the crowd and then gets dropped directly on her head and her neck bends. I’m sure she’s in the hospital with some sort of head/neck/spinal injury. It was graphic. That one was the scariest for me and I hope she’s ok. \n\nIt was extremely overcrowded and she was already passed out when they pulled her out (and dropped her on her head).",
"I responded because your thread said piece of white, not piece of shit. I thought you were substituting white for shit, which would make you a racist. It was probably an autocorrect issue on your end, as the post is now changed",
"But they do help, just not a majority of the time. Literally the only downside that can come of this is false reports. False reports happen all the time and it’s the job of the police to differentiate the two. Should a detective stop investigating because he gets useless leads majority of the time? Nah, he cuts them out and continues on till the case is solved (or unsolved and moved on for now)",
"Not making excuses for him. He's been in shit like this before, but over all there are levels to accountability. The venue was tolf about the crowd, they were told about security issues, they were told by the chief firefighter and others. \n\n\nNow if the venue told TS to not do \"XYZ\" then maybe you have a point. BUT the venue over all has to have certain things in place to prevent things like this. \n\n\nJust bc he's a shitty human doesn't mean he's responsible.",
">What I don’t understand, as I’ve been in crowds like this, is how they got on the floor to begin with? The crowd surge I was in a couldn’t get my arms above my waste. I was leaning at a literal 45degree angle and still couldn’t fall over because the crowd was packed so tight.\n\nMost likely the first people who \"fell\" were either pushed down or collapsed. Those who collapsed, if they weren't able to fall down forwards or backwards, fell *straight* down, as in, vertically.",
"Even then man, I’m telling you I could not have done that in the crowd surge I was in. Obviously it happened, so it’s not impossible, just having trouble visualizing",
"They're as dumb as him.",
"Can’t reason with racist redditors",
"Is that lil kid drunk? Why is he on TV?",
"There should be a situation where if there is a show like this going off there is automatically a kill switch to shut the music down instead of having an idiot like Travis Scott decide.",
"He’s a very smart and wise mofo! \n\nBut seriously, this stupid idiot sees an ambulance coming through the crowd and he keeps his show going on. What a fucking stupid bitch he is! An ambulance is coming through the crowd! Stop the show and go put on a lip kit!!!!",
"tbh being in the front is a lot safer because you can more easily get to the barricade and get out.",
"Don’t take this as me throwing shade, but you really don’t understand the metal community if you think other genres act with the same kindness and positivity. Been to concerts of all kinds (including plenty of modern metal genres), but metal concerts are like having safety professionals scattered throughout the crowd. People used to the scene go out of their way to educate newbies on proper edicate before shit goes down. Metal heads will throw themselves to harm without thinking, the artists will hop off stage and subdue anyone being abusive/sexually harassing someone. I personally haven’t seen this anywhere else.",
"he should go to jail. period. idgaf .",
"It's more like ending stop and frisk (an objectively bad policy) than ending investigation of crimes. Stop and frisk also caught some number of criminals, but it caused more harm than the net good generated. \n\nOveruse of the system is a major part of its ineffectiveness - it breeds complacency so people stop paying attention to them. Sending alerts at the wee hours of the night again causes disengagement. You can dress it up however you want but nobody is happy they get woken up at 3am by a screeching alarm. \n\nThey should apply more rationality when sending alerts so that they go to places that might reasonably actually catch the kidnapper, which the smartphones you claim obviate my data could aid with considerably. If someone is headed south when you last saw them, it's probably not a good use of resources to alert people 200 miles north to be on the lookout for the vehicle. And yes, you may occasionally get the criminal who is smart enough to double back, etc, but ultimately if they're that smart, they'll likely ditch the vehicle anyway, and then you're even further from catching them.\n\nI'm not against the existence of an alerting system, but scaling back when and how it is deployed would likely not reduce its efficacy. And if it's efficacy is reduced marginally, it has to be weighed against the other public costs incurred by its existence.",
"David Bowie, Keith Richards and Led Zeppelin have a troubled past with teenagers too.",
"The family member bit is critically important because it's not what the fucking AMBER alert system was designed to address. The system can't effectively address a situation that it wasn't designed for.\n\nThat situation constitutes the supermajority of kidnappings. Amber alerts aren't super helpful in the majority of those cases, because the things they make people look out for aren't often present in familial kidnappings.",
"As you can see he’s checkin with people to see what’s going on I’ve worked with plenty of artist at concert they only continue when we gave the thumbs up he was keeping the crowd engaged until he go the go ahead……smh people look to blame anyone except themselves or the people really at fault",
"What i assume they meant was it originated as a misspelling which was then adopted as commonplace.",
"Because it was his festival. He wasn’t just an artist there to do a show, he was an organizer. He’s one of the people in charge. So it falls in him to have that better security. \n\nAnd from what I’ve seen he wasn’t just a performer, he made decisions that night led to further injury. You can be held responsible for your own negligence in that situation.",
"It’s a good representation of why all this happened in just a few seconds of a clip. The complete demeanor of Travis Scott and the crowd is “fuck everything let’s rage”, but even at a metal concert you pick people up when they fall. This was just total disregard for other people and it’s fucking gross",
"Even that would be a bad example though. Stop and frisk is an assumption(if even that). Sending out an amber alert is actively telling the population that a child has been taken, who they’re with, what vehicle they may be in, etc. \n\nYou keep bringing up overuse but also say yourself how minuscule the number of cases was in ‘99. Maybe I’m in the wrong area but I get MAYBE 2 a year. This in no way desensitizes me to kidnappings and looking out for them if I can.",
"He’s such a fucking little bitch, I can’t wait to see his dumb ass sued into oblivion.",
"Imagine being an absolute asshole to medical workers for doing their job saving lives.",
"I’m fairly certain Apple streaming was a massive factor for the show not being stopped.",
"Do you still think that 'trap music' refers to the electronic music from vine",
"What an absolute clown.",
"And it doesn’t even work on Spotify",
"”Drugged out slurring” jesus",
"Oh my god how could you do this, my feelings are so hurt now 😭",
"100% thought it was country at first 🤦♀️",
"I have been to a show. I’ve been back stage because I used to work with Mike. \n\nDon’t act as if. Act with what you know. He knew there was an issue and didn’t stop. \n\nPoor visibility. Lol. He has literally. The best view. Stop defending him. He acted like a piece of shit. Should have stopped and controlled the crowd. Literally his job. \n\nThat’s the end of the story. And that’s why he’s at fault. Not gonna argue this any further.",
"When they responded to me with \"I'm not inviting you to any metal shows\" I'm inclined to believe my original reading of their intent was correct. like another commenter said. This wasn't because the crowd didn't have brotherhood, it was because the organizers and performers completely failed to take any action. Anyone panics with the weight of 50 people on their back. \n\n> Plus when shit goes as bad as it did here it’s way beyond picking people up that have fallen. People are panicking, getting crushed from all directions. This is why it’s down to the organisers and performers who can see what is happening to stop it.",
"As did Drake.",
"When I lived closer to the city I got one about every 3-4 weeks, mostly way early in the morning when nobody is on the road. Since covid it's calmed down a lot, and although it was never enough to get me to disable the alerts I definitely checked out what I'd need to do to disable them. \n\nThe miniscule number of cases was 'stranger danger' kidnappings, which is what the system was designed for, as compared to general kidnappings, which is how the system has been deployed. That's why I keep bringing it up - kids taken by family members often don't even realize that something is wrong. There's evidence to suggest that amber alerts push situations to become tense and violent when they don't need to be. These are all important and valid questions to ask about the program, but anyone who does gets accused of not caring about the safety of children.",
"Yeppyepp, I'm just tired of the people actually making shit up to feed the toxic circle jerk.\n\nEven had some person make up numbers on how many were in attendance to try to justify some kinda agenda he/she had.\n\nThe reddit toxic circle jerk is almost at 4chan levels nowadays. I think covid actually made people go crazy.\n\nEVERYONE need to go out and touch some grass it seems. :P",
"The EDM crowd has the same concepts you're describing. Another commenter said it well\n\n>Plus when shit goes as bad as it did here it’s way beyond picking people up that have fallen. People are panicking, getting crushed from all directions. This is why it’s down to the organisers and performers who can see what is happening to stop it.\n\nThis incident wasn't an issue of the crowd not having a strong enough bond with each other. This was like those nightclub fires where hundreds of people are leaning on each other, and the ones in front fall and then everyone starts panicking and scrambling. This was on the organizers and performer.\n\nAlso: artists hopping off stage to subdue issues in the crowd is something that seems like it only really happens at smaller shows. Not festivals like this with thousands upon thousands in attendance.",
"I don’t even know what you’re talking about",
"Some people that were passed out were crowd surfed to help. Others were trampled.",
"A thug is a violent person.. how’d you derive N word from that?",
"That’s not the “principle of charity”; the principle of charity actually implies something quite different: that we should interpret someone in the most rational way possible, and it applies to argumentation and debate rather than moralizing and speculation.",
"I fucking hate him too.",
"She’s the definition of obtuse. She posted herself in loungewear the next day on her ig, like nothing is happening. Like they all do.",
"That's not how language works. Language is a system of rules by which people communicate with one another. Someone in the Bible belt naming their daughter 'Britney' or 'Britnee' or 'Brittny' isn't going to change the name of the region, nor is it going to change the origin of the name.\n\n\"If millions of people use it\".\n\nMillions of people do not use it. According to the US SSA, there have been 30,000 people named 'Britney' in the United States, likely after the singer, and 350,000 named 'Brittany'. Just because you decide to name your child 'Britney', or 'Dayvid' or 'Jeffaree' doesn't mean you are going to change the rules of the English language.",
"Stupidest comment…POS!",
"That doesn't actually stop them. Apple openly doesn't want this feature.",
"Her makeup is bottom of the barrel shit. Have you seen her before after photos? 100% surgical enhancement. Sells a “lip kit” so you can try to get her lips that, before injections- were the tiniest little lips you’ve ever seen. Not judging people that get injections- but selling a “kit” that claims to do the same thing should have some kind of FDA warning on it. Somehow she turned that into a makeup empire. Money can buy everything but class.",
"For everyone who just saw this, this WAS a human sacrifice ritual in pubic God as shown what it's like in NWO is like. DO you still want to go down this road that's what's waiting for you.",
"Congrats on being trash. You know what an ideologue is? You are one, 0 original thoughts and a boring individual. Slave to politics and media, human garbage.",
"I really wish someone went up there and punched him the FUCK out",
"missing the point, read my other comments in this chain",
"Looks kinda lit lol",
"Girl screaming for her mom?",
"It's not like a wave, it is a wave, it may as well be fluid dynamics",
"Travis deserves all the shit he is getting, but you're blind if you don't see that people are using this tragedy to attack the genre of rap as a whole. Anytime anything rap related reaches the default subs it is met with a shitton of vitriol that no other genre of music gets, why do you think that is? This situation is just the perfect storm to give those types of people a free soapbox to stand on to decry the \"mumble crappers\" and their ignorance without judgement.",
"oh yeah, right. i forgot everyone knows about this...\n\ndude dropped it in the thread like it was curriculum",
"Yeah, he is, but he is often the #1 rapper in the sphere of racists, \"rap is like a mountain, white on the top\" and shit like that.",
"Not an argument against anything i said.",
"From what I am seeing reporter Travis Scott (or more likely an LLC he owns) is an owner of the festival. \n\nAnd it’s pretty easy and correct to blame the owner who while on stage did nothing to help and actively hurt the situation. \n\nOf course he’s liable and going to get sued. And you’d sue anybody else you can get your hands on.",
"Powerful and attractive is an important qualifier here, yes regular men not in the spotlight are much less likely to be given the benefit of the doubt or considered a victim even when they are the one being attacked - but society conditions us to believe attractive and rich people are inherently good people, leading us to give them the benefit of the doubt when they don't deserve it.",
"Same",
"Yeah this might be the most important bit of information. If the parties on the other side of the in-ears are withholding information on purpose I suppose they're even more responsible for the deaths. It all boils down to the information they had and what they chose to do with that.",
"Stop making unethical shit heads rich and famous.",
"Good info, thanks!",
"I've no idea who is he, but seems like he is being infamous on anywhere's news these days so thought to check it out because of the tragedies that happened. Soon as I heard his music for few seconds, I muted it coz I felt wanted to vomit. Like, literally disgusted to even watch his gestures. \n\n\nRIP to those died tragically during this horrible concert.",
"But I’m right though. Selfish assholes claiming they’re canceled and then getting support from a bunch of toxic men who support being offensive for being offensive’s sake.",
"Yeah tbh at that point I'd also use it.",
"Trans people die from hateful rhetoric. So no I don’t think I will.",
"He's not conservative and I don't believe he's said anything about the gay community, he'll be fine.",
"This shit that's being shared is trauma-porn and is disgusting that people are passing it around, taking snapshots of dying people and shit. Disgraceful.",
"Is that not for genre? Or is it for the artist?",
"The band that never ages.",
"Their create station function is amazing for discovering new music. I prefer it to Pandora/Spotify etc...",
"Ya...pausing for few seconds then requesting the fans to raise their middle fingers and rage...he definitely helped the ambulance",
"Eight people are dead as a result of his actions or lack of actions. It’s not a race issue, it’s an accountability issue. A random redditor making a comment that you feel has racial undertones doesn’t change that fact.",
"🤡",
"The situations are not comparable. Dave Chapelle tells jokes. Whether or not you find them funny is irrelevant. \n\nTravis Scott refused to stop the show to help people getting injured and dying at his own festival.",
"So you would have preferred he stop completely. See above comment. You’re talking in circles bud",
"I said she needed intervention. Not how it went down. People really do lack reading comprehension.",
"I actually don’t watch sports but I’ve known their names and what they look like for a long time because they’re actually talented people and thus have become household names. Unlike this fool.",
"If you can't see at least the difference between the two, let alone the benefit of a back BUTTON, then you either haven't used an android for appreciable time, or you're just trolling.",
"That’s a good point as well, I hadn’t thought of that.",
"Look up Travis Scott’s interactions with people and tell me you don’t think he’s a narcissist that thinks he’s everyone’s gift from God. That video of him shoving a videographer from the stage that was hired by the venue and saying into the microphone “get your nerdy ass out of here, no disrespect, *im an artist*” is literally a screaming red flag for narcissism.",
"Exactly its not a race issue but thats what some ppl are trying to turn it into lol. Fucked up how nerds on internet are using a tradegy to hate on hiphop and black ppl. Check any post on this event outside of hiphop subs and sort by controversial, so much racist shit.",
"They’re paid entertainers. They are both callous, selfish, and so far out of touch that they’re comfortable with creating real world harm to other people.",
"What \"boomer\" trends are being regurgitated? Did you not read my post? My parents are baby boomers, they did not criticize my music. \n\nHow is criticizing music a boomer trend? It's not, it is done by every generation. You need to stop being dense and look up what it means to be shallow, your explanation makes no sense.",
"The only difference is one is a tap and one is a swipe.",
"That wasn’t in regards to you, as you weren’t regurgitating the trend that is calling others “boomers” for every little thing. \n\nI replied to the person calling you shallow and acting like a boomer telling them that boomers had to deal with the silent generation criticizing their music as well. It’s not a “boomer” trait\n\nEdit; to sum it up, I was poking fun at the person who called you shallow. You didn’t understand my intent",
"what a fucking warrior she is",
"This doesn't only happen with crowds consisting of kids: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Parade_disaster\n\nAverage age of hospitalized people at the Loveparade 2010 was 25.5: https://www.aerzteblatt.de/archiv/121338/Patientenversorgung-bei-der-Loveparade-2010",
"Stampede started in Berlin. Ended up with people dying in Duisburg.",
"Dave Chapelle created no real world harm unless you count feelings being hurt as harm.",
"I can't believe some people are still a fan of this guy",
"You focused on one word in isolation and ignored the rest of my comment. Do you intend to be honest, or no?\n\nI'm fine with saying the CGI in The Mandalorian and Rogue One are good compared to previous Star Wars films, as is the CGI in virtually every film made today. So, in some very limited areas, you could say they're well made. \n\nBut no. Overall, they are not well made. Pretty much all of the characters in Rogue One are forgettable, dull, and one-dimensional. The movie itself is so predictable as to be devoid of tension or stakes entirely. When Diego Luna's character was \"shot\" and fell down the shaft I immediately thought, \"well, he's going to show up in the next five minutes to save Felicity Jones at just the right moment while some bad guy is monologuing\". Boooooring.\n\nAnd my god. The amount of \"Remember this??!!!??!\" in The Mandalorian is just nauseating. I think Timothy Olyphant's character used about a dozen different metaphors that involved womp rats, to the exclusion of literally any other expression. It would be like if I were cursed to only be able to express myself with the phrases, \"It's raining cats and dogs!\" and \"The cats out of the bag!\" and \"Curiosity killed the cat!\".\n\nI think people who like Rogue One and The Mandalorian have very low standards for being entertained. Which is fine, but let's not pretend like they're quality productions.",
"This shit is why I don't do GA standing room only tickets. If I can't get a seat I don't go.",
"Well, there was GandhiBot, but that's because everyone was talking about Gandhi, and spelling him Ghandi, which made it super easy for the bot to recognize the name and correct others.",
"Believe you can and you’re halfway there. Just so you know, the correct spelling is [Gandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi).",
"THERE IT FUCKING GOES.",
"After seeing this and reading the reports of fans who were struggling to breathe in the crowd of crushing humans I now understand that this fucking douchebag murdered people. I’d have never been able to guess it was possible to murder people by performing a concert. \n\nI was confused because the first article I read seemed to imply that maybe someone was in the crowd injecting these people with something that killed them and I was wondering how that could possibly be the performers’ fault. When it said he continued the concert for 30 minutes I thought it was feasible that he didn’t understand what was going on. \n\nNope. He directly instructed his fans to disrespect first responders and then cranked up the music and told them he wanted the floor to shake when the problem was people being trampled. He killed some children that day. \n\nAlso, I’ve never seen anyone look so visibly fucking stupid before. It’s like I just watched this mouthbreathing piece of shit try to use his one half-baked brain cell to understand a situation and then actively choose douchebaggery.",
"I wish this wasn't a thing",
"Kind of a weird comment. The dude is an awful person but let's not knock his fans for enjoying his music.",
"You're such a knob, you're gonna compare Bono (who practically a saint) because he put an album on your phone, to Travis Scott. American, everybody. Land of the morally sound.",
"Honestly had no idea or expectation it would be this well received",
"Untalented P.o.s.",
"They sponsored him after he persuaded a fan to jump from a balcony...it's insane.",
"We have any tweets or posts from those acknowledging they helped cause the problem or is this one of those, no rain drop was ever guilty of the flood, kinda thing?",
"At least in Austealia, these are staffed by volunteers mostly, people who do this every now and then on weekends. They are amazing at what they do, but they are just the *first* aid, not a properly fitted out hospital.",
"No you’re not. Ppl died here you moron, Chappelle didn’t kill anyone through his stand up …big difference.",
"I agree the rage about his middle finger statement is misplaced, but it would have been incredibly easy for him to say \"let the ambulance through\" or something to that effect. He literally spotted the ambulance, he could have done *something.*\n\nHonestly that's the part that pisses me off the most... maybe he didn't actively contribute to the problem but he sure as shit didn't do anything to help alleviate it.",
"My mistake. I apologize for misunderstanding you. Have a wonderful day",
"It also would have been incredibly trivial for him to just say \"let the ambulance through\" or something to that effect. There are many examples of artists telling the crowd to move back, pick each other up, etc. Him just standing there and doing nothing isn't an excuse, he should do *something.*\n\nThat said I wouldn't put 100% of the blame on him. There are others who have the power to stop the show temporarily and get help to those who need it and those people did not do that.",
"> because he hates life saving measures!\"\n\nHe support and persuades fans to jump off balcony's...so..you know.",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI",
"I’ve been at festivals of this scale, but there were no barricades in the middle of the f*cking crowd. It allowed people to move freely, so if one area was cramped, it just spread out naturally after a few moments. The organizers of Astroworld are going to face major fines for the 3-sided barricades they had set up on either side of the stage. Pure stupidity.",
"Wow that’s terrifying. I think this was in 2016 for me.",
"Did I ever imply it's not (Hint: I literally said it \"is fine\", in reference to people liking it)? \n\nIf you're free to give your positive assessment of it, I am equally free to give my negative assessment of it.",
"Haha yup",
"You seem really lost. I think you’re struggling to keep what everyone said straight because your reply has very little to do with anything I’ve said. But hey, you do you.\n\nSomeone incited the crowd. The crowd ended up hurting people by being overly aggressive.\n\nThis statement is true for this concert (with videos of the performer getting the whole crowd to flip off the ambulance), and it’s true for Trump. They’re not connected politically. The point is that a person with sway over a crowd used their influence to cause damage to others, and hopefully it serves as a warning to others who are also leaders.",
"I've only heard one good analysis of the actual nihilism that the supporters have. There is a lot of 'im gonna rage and if I die I died raging' on Twitter and not a lot of coverage of it. Or discussion. \n\nCulture in general has been pushing this way, and I don't blame things like movies or whatever for this. The future looks bleak for a lot of these younger guys.",
"When they have the money and connections they appoint themselves that job to take that salary too. And to make sure he doesn't get cut off like lolapalooza. Just my 2c\n\n\nBut where would the shutoff switch be? Because if you're outside the crowd you can't tell what's going on either... Can't hear a radio... It would have to be on stage I guess.",
"Yeah, i have to think he was trying to balance safety with the atmosphere of the show. By saying “put your middle finger up if you’re okay” he was still doing the responsible safety action, while making it seem like it was still a fun thing to do. I think the internet is hating him way more than he deserves, meanwhile the real people responsible aren’t even being discussed",
"Absolutely he has...he has very much encouraged rushing the stage, people to jump off if shit, etc. \n\nWhich is why it is odd that people are MAKING SHIT UP. The guy has shown his character in real ways, no need to make shit up lol",
"Can we also sue the people that closed off most of the venue to make it seem jam packed? That was kinda glossed over but should be seen as a primary cause.",
"He probably thought it was cool people dying at his concert. him and Kylie are boycotted. And I LOVED Kylie.",
"I feel like at any concert I’ve ever been to the performer would’ve said something like “let them through” to tell the fans to get out of the way and then maybe continued playing pausing now and then to suggest not being a hindrance to the fucking ambulance. Flipping them off with both hands then making the ground shake is instructing the crowd to disrespect the first responders. That’s almost certainly criminal negligence.",
"They cut off a bunch of space to make it look more packed",
"He is much more involved than that apparently.",
"Drake is worse because he's also a pedophile",
"Im just speaking from my experiences ~11-12 festivals\n\nalso what was the median age? If one 45 year old went down at loveparade it skees the average upward, btw 25.5 is not considerably older than 16–19\n\nyou arent exactly citing an average age of 33",
"Did you watch the video? It's people of many skin tones squashed into a space where they can barely breathe, people on the floor unable to stand up because people standing over them can't move. Eight people died and hundreds were injured by the pressure of hundreds of bodies squishing together. The colors of the bodies doesn't matter, that video is terrifying. No one deserves to die like that. They should have been able to enjoy the music and have a good time and go home safely. Anyone expressing opinions about the race of people there is being especially stupid, crowds crushing people has happened all over the world and has nothing to do with culture or race or music. You get enough people in one place, and this is one of the things that can happen, and I dislike it.",
"And tweens. My bad",
"id love to know why people like this type of music so much, it's honestly something i'll never understand I suppose.",
"You *only* go to Asian concerts because of this chance you’d get crushed?",
"Further proving you've not used them both enough to be able to properly compare.",
"Nothing you have said shows how they differ.",
"Surprised you're pissed off because I linked the actual live stream to his performance and gave more complete information than 10 second edited videos from tiktok? A whole tragedy happened and all y'all care about is doing cancel culture instead of actually trying to understand what happened. Gargle on that, weirdo.",
"Yeah. It does. If he sees the situation unfold from the stage, see the ambulance coming and then incite the crowd to flip them off like its no big deal and go into your song. Thats on him. Sure others fucked up, but he had the crowd, and he used them exactly the opposite way he should",
"I've been in here trashing the guy and the video put him in the most positive light I've seen on Reddit in a week lol",
"Usually the HD video is the worst part ; watching yourself definitely do stuff and having 0 reccollection is weird.",
"Lol no, you're the one out of touch with reality now. Just virtue signaling out your ass.",
"Somehow I never heard about the manslaughter charges.. Googled it and I'm guessing it was Ozzfest 2007 that I saw them judging from the lineup.. Sun went down and all hell broke loose once they came on. Endless circles opening up, some A LOT worse than others. Besides the pits it seemed like everyone and their cousin decided to light bibles on fire and throw them into the sky. Getting a little too old for THAT much insanity but definitely memorable. GWAR seems like it would be fun.",
"While the loss of life is obviously a terrible tragedy, I don't think we should overlook another perhaps even more serious tragedy that people paid money to see Travis Scott. Never forget.",
"The manslaughter charge was when they were done a European tour",
"There’s so many artist that wouldn’t not and could not exist today without the existence of auto tune. Travis Scott is one of those artist.",
"....no.",
"Youre an idiot",
"Live Nation and AEG will not want to be promoters so he will have a hard time finding a large enough promoter as well",
"Uh yea bc flipping off some random ambulance you have no idea about and flipping off the one called for your urgent need is totally the same thing. 🙄",
"Him not to be black",
"Why do black people terrify you?",
"Send this piece of shit to jail",
"The stopping completely that I was talking about was stopping the whole party...but stopping completely for few seconds is pausing",
"\"*I* could have *died!!\"*",
"I don't know how big the audience is, but I have played some pretty big gigs. But you are free to assume otherwise.\n\nThat's besides the point however, this is not normal behavior, to watch people who are badly hurt, flip off the medical personel and keep doing your set? That's beyond fucked up.",
"Whaaaat? Holy fuck Lizzo wtf",
"Yes, the concert should have been stopped immediately. I've been to countless shows and any time it's noticed that anyone hits the ground in a surge or something they stop it. Hell, jump on YouTube and you'll see the same. But even if that's what the cop says, the video shows Travis encouraging people to continue the show despite the presence of medical personnel. Wouldn't a half decent person want to make sure they weren't in their way or encouraging people to be in their way?\n\nHe claims ignorance and yet at another show:\n\n>Video from the concert showed Scott yelling, “Everyone in a green shirt get the f–k back!” — referring to the security separating the crowd and the stage — and starting a chant of, “We want rage!”\n\nRisk of death should not be a thing you have to strongly consider when going to a concert.",
"This is what I am genuinely baffled by. *He* is the performer that everyone is paying attention to. He says \"raise your middle finger\" or \"make the ground shake\" and people do it.\n\nPretty sure they would have listened to him implementing some kind of crowd control in this instance (seeing an ambulance). It isn't too much to ask.",
"There's always an element of crowd crush at GA concerts. Most of the time, you're alright even though you can't move and maybe you feel some pressure. It can be part of the appeal honestly. It can be euphoric to be tight with a bunch of other people who are all vibing to the same music. In this case there were a number of factors that caused it to be much much worse, all of which were completely preventable. Too many tickets were sold and then even more people gate crashed. The venue was understaffed. Barriers were poorly thought out, and of course, Travis Scott is a massive piece of shit who encourages his audience to be horrifically irresponsible and he either can't read a situation to save his life or actively ignored all the warning signs that something wasn't right.",
"From my understanding, all of these people weren't dying for the whole time the concert was going on, it all happened at once. People from audience coming to camera man shouting that someone is dead wasn't helping at all. The thing is, maybe audience were over reacting and saw someone faint, not die. Travis is guilty of course, but fucking security, doctors or police couldn't just go to the stage and talk to Travis Scott's crew that people have died? Why the fuck I only saw videos of audience trying to go to the stage and not the police. This whole thing is a fucking mess.",
"What I always say.. one should love the art, not the artist. Art is beautiful, complete, eternal. Artist seldom are pieces of s*it.",
"Fair enough - I was using mosh as a term for in the pit or up close. But normally even in very dense pits people will be a hopping - in the abnormal (like this) it’s a good sign of an issue.",
"And youre and idiot for assuming i was comparing the two. I just dont want U2 on my phone who tf said i was comparing their \"saintness\"? Gtfo lol",
"I’m actually kinda on this side with you, in that I will give slight benefit of the doubt. However you are stating this things as facts, was there any statement from him or livenation or someone in charge saying that they told him it was okay? \n\nOtherwise for all we know they said “they think there is people dead out there” and he looked around and just kept playing. Hell for all we know he just had a brain fart and forgot where he was or what song he was supposed to play",
"Good dog.",
"POS thug’s gonna POS thug?!?! Who saw that coming?!?!",
"Yeah I know thats what he's thinking but he's not gonna say it lol",
"Lol fine.\n\nNot liking rap isn't the issue, I'm fine with people not liking rap. But reddit has an obvious bias against rap whenever anything rap related makes it to the default subs. You don't see other genres get some much vitriol directed towards it as much as rap. People who don't like rap will go out of their way to go onto threads to spread their hyperbolic negative opinions (\"mumble crapper\" dogshit music bs) despite their ignorance to the genre, why do you think the genre with largely black artists gets so much undue critique?",
"This was NOT scene safe for that ambulance",
"Shitty, modern, american popular culture. Narcissistic, clout chasing, materialistic, unempathetic, selfish, vacuous, shallow.",
"Nah he’s not low IQ. Just an awful human being void of any sense of compassion.",
"He keeps pointing and asking if someone in the audience is alright.\nNot saying he’s right or wrong but I’m only seeing one side.",
"Oh I agree with that and would never say that he is solely to blame because the failure lies with others as well. Just that he handled it shittily as a performer.",
"I don't think \"verbatim\" means what you think it means.",
"Hes a satan worshipper so no reason to be shocked that he hates all the people that are good and decent in this world",
"And then he says \"I wanna feel the floor shake\". Imagine being on the floor and hearing him say that.\n\nTotal trash human. I hope there's cause for him to do prison for this. He's clearly a public menace.",
"This has happened before at concerts and sports events. Soon all shows (music, sports and even theater) will be “Broadcast Only” a.k.a. Cable T.V..",
"Yes, he continued the set.. but also commanded them to start jumping as people were on the floor.\n\nClearly much worse than \"just continuing to sing\".",
"Nice touch",
"PS that 123 surgery thing is nuts.",
"UMF 2016? I had to leave the mega structure due to not being able to control my space. 6'6\" 250 lbs being floated around due to the mass of people. The only time I felt unsafe at an EDM show.",
"Yea, that's the general population of people believing in a common belief. I think a lot of Asian cultures have variances of it. Granted this example is a bit dated but when I visited Taiwan in 2001 the subway stations were not only immaculate but it was common practice (I forget exactly which side is which) for the people on escalators who are walking, to be on one side so others could pass on the other. \n\nSounds like common sense but they actually adhere to that kind of stuff... at least back then. \n\nIt's quite amazing how well things can function when you have a system of principles for when you are out in public. Have trash? Pick it up and throw it out or carry it with you until you can. Have trash in your house that you don't want to put in your trashcan right away? Ok.. it might attract rodents but at least it's in your house (please don't this in an APT haha).",
"They'll get older and they'll learn. These days Justice is bought and paid for.",
"Thanks. He seems to be a victim of his reputation amongst other things.",
"The wierd thing is he may be safer than those being crushed standing up. \n\nWhen crowd crush happens, your best changes are to angle yourself (most notably your torso) to the opposite angle of the crush.\n\nIf the wave of pressure is moving towards the camera and people aren't falling on top of you, the guy down there may be breathing easier than someone sandwiched between their neighbours.\n\nHe's definitely getting kicked and stood on but maybe not as bad as being squashed against other bodies to the point you can't breathe.\n\nIt's how one of the dudes at that club in the 90s survived the crush. He was at the bottom but his body was angled so the front and back of his torse wasn't recievibg the pressure of the crush - meaning he could still breathe.",
"Travis Scott didn’t kill anyone just as Dave Chappelle didn’t kill anyone. Their actions kill people. Same shit. \n\nYou know the people that got killed from the concert, you don’t know the trans people that are being killed - that’s the only difference.\n\nwww.outsmartmagazine.com/2018/07/anti-trans-rhetoric-fuels-anti-trans-violence/\n\nwww.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/15/opinion/cancel-culture-isnt-criticizing-comedian-its-being-murdered-living-trans-person/",
"He is so freaking high.",
"I worked front of stage at stadium concerts in the late 80s and believe it or not, there were relatively few issues, other than passed out or angry drunk. The one night I will never forget is the rich, pretty white 15 year old girl who wanted to get laid by someone hanging around Bruce Springsteen. She was an animal, thrashing anyone in her way. I pulled her out, handed her to a colleague. She ended up giving the colleague a blow job and he let her backstage. Her dad sued. No idea how he found out, but Bill Graham Presents was scared as hell, I think he was a big lawyer in SF.",
"In my experience, the managers are nowhere to be found. Often backstage lolling it up. We had headsets but there were hundreds of us and no one ever understood what anyone was saying. I think I always got put front of stage because I was so adamantly safety minded, but I got so much shit for it.",
"Same. I was really impressed with this event tho, I dig that psychedelic/futuristic look he uses for his artwork. Then I read somewhere about a certain national Travis Scott day and was like wtf how why does this exist WHO is this person and ended up watching the 'Look mama I can fly' documentary only to discover he's exactly whats wrong with the youth nowadays and he rolls with the untouchable Kardashian/Jenners.",
"This is the bottom of the society",
"That’s so fucked- And angering",
"kinda horrifying when you’re aware that people are dying at this very moment… this kinda disturbed me because all i thought ab was the people who were dying at that moment oh god",
"The video I watched was not of him humming.",
"You really are an idiot…clearly I’m not the only one who thinks that either. Keep going with your bullshit though!",
"I’d be way more confused with this scenario if the music was really good.",
"Now this, this is why… I have no hope for humanity",
"I was always taught that name calling meant you lost an argument.",
"Who would pay for that though? Herrin himself?",
"He. Doesn’t. care . Get your generation together and ruin this man. He has no business being a public person making millions of dollars.",
"Do something . Do something about him. Never ever support his work and don’t be friends with anyone who does. He is trash .",
"Good for you",
"And that right there is gonna be lawsuit against him. This could get criminal now and not just civil. Wow what a piece of shit. Epic",
"Yeah it is.",
"Classy...these are the people that our generation looks up to...",
"Live nation would never report that as it would implicate them for criminal negligence. I’ve worked a lot of large shows like this. Sure the artist can say fuck it and stop for longer and, yes, fhat may make them a better person. But deciding to go on as long as you get the green light from the show people doesn’t make you a bad person.",
"still the face of their twitter and spatial audio\nhttps://i.imgur.com/p4HD1Un.jpg",
"Whatever it is, any professional artist see's something like that with emergency lights, you stop the show. No excuses. Many artists/bands like Linkin Park, Avenged Sevenfold, Billie Eillish, etc... Have done it because it common decency.",
"Also hundreds of shows under my belt. I'm a tall dude so I've never been scared to be up front at some of my heavy shows. But I'll be damned, the one moment I was actually scared was when the crowd tipped over at a Green Day concert. It caused a domino effect and everyone fell over and I felt some serious weight on my lower half. Worst experience for me. \n\nI feel like the solution at this Travis Scott show should have been to have a metal divider and segment the crowd like below. So that the weight of the entire crowd wasn't on the front row of people. Prevents tipping and pressure up front. \n\n--|---|---| stage.",
"We all know that aint happening lol. \nThey’re well-integrated into US Pop culture and scene at this point. \nThey also have kids, which means more Kardashian/Jenners influencers down the line.",
"Just listened to his music...complete garbage like himself. Scumbag",
"You know what, I have no evidence to dispute that",
"Alright, so let me clear something up for you. Since you've been raised to believe that \"racism is bad\" to the extent that you can be so blind to stereotypes, let me spell something out for you... (obviously racism is bad.........)\n\nYou've been told it's bad to stereotype people based on race. A young black male's experiences with the police are typically negative, ESPECIALLY if they're raised or spend much of their time of their formative years in middle/lower class cities. All he can see from that distance on stage is red/blue lights. You can't tell it's a fucking ambulance. He sees red/blue lights, assumes it's police, and has been conditioned (through influence or personal experience) to have an attitude of \"Fuck the police, they're here to treat people unfairly.\"\n\nHis stage-buddy leans in and says, \"Bruh it's an ambulance.\" Travis' bias is so strong that his initial conditioned reaction has over-taken reason, his anger/frustration is already at irrational levels so he says, \"Fuck it, I don't care, put TWO middle fingers in the air!\"\n\nPeople may hate on me for my explanation, but I believe my reasoning holds much more weight than yours. \"He was high\" is just simple minded and dismissive. People these days don't look for the actual \"why,\" they just accept the \"why\" that requires the least amount of thinking.",
"He thought they were police. Holy shit, how stupid can Reddit be? Have you all been raised in this bubble that has gouged your eyes out and disabled your ability to see how racial bias isn't just as simple as \"white people are racist toward black people?\" It comes in innumerous forms, one of the many being \"from black people toward police.\"\n\nAt the distance Travis was at, all he can see is lights. Lights that signify an authority who he is biased toward. This kid isn't flipping off an ambulance because he fucking hates paramedics and wills the death of his show-goers.",
"Eh, I think it's more complicated than that. Deaths at concerts aren't common. I think people are too pent up and aren't acting rationally. How about we put some blame on the fucking idiots in the crowd? Hundreds of thousands of people manage to go to \"standing concerts\" without killing the people around them.",
"Perfect, so you think blame should be placed on the venue right? It's not the retarded performer's responsibility to protect people. The venue controls capacity, general security, etc. So the venue should be sued. Right?",
"Yeah, she is basically a total lie of a person.",
"What about his history though, of issues with fan safety? Can we ignore that as we debate the cause of this incident? I'm just asking the question. ...",
"r/fucktravisscott",
"r/fucktravisscott",
"Well I agree with you there that that is fucked up.",
"I'm not saying if I'm for or against the guy, but people do get convicted sometimes even when the verdict is not actually true. The case was super emotionally charged and was also influenced by heavy media scrutiny and also knowing that black america was watching.\n\nSometimes it's better (as viewed by politicians etc imo) to just go with the flow of the people and give them what they want versus do what is actually the truth/right or wrong. \n\nAt the end of the day, a jury is no where near perfect. Very flawed system and allows facts to be watered down and/or taken by the wayside of emotions and/or how one feels that day. One day hopefully we will have such advanced forensics that this stupid jury system is not needed.",
"I definitely don't think he was flipping off an ambulance lmao. That was sort of the point of my comment, people are trying to sensationalize something that's already bad enough that it doesn't have to be. I could see your explanation being true for sure, that hadn't even occurred to me. But I guess his cadence makes me think this was just already planned as part of the performance",
"Keep in mind this incident happened almost 13 years ago. To newly-adults on this website, they were only 5 or 6 years old when this happened. Almost 13 years ago, time does fly.",
"Only 15 percent of people survive after getting cpr anyway. It's better to get them out and on an ambulance in this situation and hope they just had a weak pulse. CPR isn't some miracle cure, just the best you can do until better help arrives.",
"Says the guy that got caught on video licking Fred Durst’s thigh after a show.",
"In this scenario why dont the concert people just cut off his mic and start directing the crowd themselves?",
"They are on an increasingly long list of shitty companies. If these organizations didn't put profits so far ahead of people/customers I imagine the world would be a little bit better of a place. One person's solidarity may not seem like much, but all massive changes start as an idea. I don't expect the government or regulators to advocate very far on our behalf, as many commenters seem to be asking for. But I can decide where my money goes. That is one thing I'm my control.",
"that would be the management and production teams, this whole thing is one person after another ignoring safety standards in favor of production value and hype for one thing or another, from travis scott encouraging the crowd rush, to the production crew cutting off a majority of the stadium to encourage crowding, to the management not shutting things down when things got bad, not providing enough security, and limiting what the security is allowed to do, and whoever was in charge of ems, whether it was the venue or the event who hired them, not hiring enough ems to handle things if a situation occurred.\n\nthis was not a perfect storm of stupidity, this was pure neglect and selfishness to the point of not caring that people would get hurt.\n\nthey KNEW what would happen (anyone in the music industry who has been around concerts even a little bit knows about crowd crush) they did not care, they only cared about the video looking good, and getting people hyped, and if a few people had to die and over 300 people get hurt, so be it",
"\"heroes on both sides\"",
"During the Battle of the Philippine Sea in WWII, a fighter pilot from the Japanese carrier Taiho deliberately crashed his plane into the sea in the path of a torpedo, giving his life in an effort to save the 2150 crewmen aboard his ship. We certainly know enough about Japan's actions during WWII to be confident in calling them the bad guys. But does that mean his action wasn't heroic? Calling fighting and killing heroic is always problematic, but saving lives, any lives, is an uncontroversial good. Star Wars has had a fairly complicated view of war since at least Episode VI. The good guys might be good and the bad guys might be bad, but war is still an ugly thing that causes enormous harm, even if it prevents worse.",
"I think they were aware at that time shit was out of control.",
"Apple's U2 Removal Service\n\nhttps://youtu.be/wAxmGAZBBtY",
"I really hope at least one family sticks to their guns doesn't take the settlement and takes it all the way. The industry has to change there's so many things wrong with it as is.",
"Nope there’s a video of him stoping the show to help get someone out.",
"Funny that there are plenty of other artists who have stopped their concerts and were able to see from the stage, yet Travis couldn't?",
"Well I agree with you on this. However, what I was talking about is different argument as I am comparing the actual recorded footage of similar incidents. I am aware of that the police brutality is more significant overall than concerts/rappers.\n\nStill, here we have 2. recorded (and public) situations with drastically different results: 1 death vs 8 deaths (don't tell me it's no difference...), and believe me or not this more tragic one with TS involved is so well covered that outside of US nobody really knows that even happend. In the US itself it is also seemingly more quiet - no riots happend, no BLM no nothing - the scale of effects is just drastically smaller.\n\nWhy the reaction today is significantly quieter than after the footage of ex-officers. Is it just because TS is popular or what other reason.",
"What a waste of oxygen he is",
"This is the most chilling video I’ve seen by far",
"lol yeah. the joke is that he had a brain, but has donated it, so now has no brain :P",
"For drink, would it come with an Orange Crush?",
"> These days\n\nAlways been this way, at least in Murica. Big Money has simply gotten bigger.",
"I'm so happy to hear that person is still alive. That video haunted me :(, I hope that the head drop wasn't part of the reason she's critical because that was one hell of a drop and it angered me because it was clearly avoidable.",
"1. you’re stupid. 2. stop spreading false information. 3. i’m not on any side i’m just responding to this comment. those fans had no idea what was happening, they were there to stage dive and he didn’t shoo them away. He basically told them to wait until the beat drop and then they jumped into the crowd.",
"What a idiot travis scott is",
"Imagine thinking for a moment that it finally stopped and you will be able to breathe and someone is going to rescue you… and then the artist you came to see says “let’s make the ground shake” … I can’t even finish the thought of what they felt. \nThis is completely tragic and was preventable.",
"He SAYS he went to the after party cause he didn’t know what had happened. \n\nSo they stopped your show 40 min in and you didn’t ask? 🤔\n\nThis is the same guy who told everyone to bust in cause they can’t stop all of you? \n\n6 years ago Told security not to stop people from climbing over railing?\n\nSure. You didn’t know what happened at your show… that ended after 40 min.",
"You are so full of shit.\n\nThe violent sub-genres of rap haven't been big for almost 2 decades now!\n\nLike you look at the most played rap music today and it's not any more violent than any random pet genre of the average white Redditor. \n\nIt's like you people watch Vice documentaries on soundcloud rappers and think that's what rap is.\n\nThe proof is looking at the most successful rap albums of the last decade and releasing they range from break up albums to pulitzer winning stories\n\nThe fact people are still trying to conflate rap and \"angry black music\" in 2021 is such a Reddit moment",
"Shit happens , if it was Justin Bieber, none of y’all would say shit.. (puts headphones back on and turns up sicko mode)",
"Man wtf is wrong with you? Don’t put “angry black music” in quotes I never fucking said that\n\nI literally never called it violent either, I just said it was angry\n\nIf you’re not even gonna respond to words I say and just make shit up what’s the point of talking to you? Go fuck yourself",
"I'd tell you to go fuck yourself but there's no room.\n\nYour comment was so \"smart\". <- Do you know what those quotation marks mean?\n\nOr did you fail 5th grade english?\n\n---\n\nYou're getting fake mad over quotation marks because you know you're full of shit and got called out.\n\nSaying stupid bullshit like I cAllEd iT aNgRy, because violent music is not angry music.\n\nYou're violently stupid, maybe that's the issue here.",
"We need a list.",
"Lmao the usage in this comment and your previous comment are completely different. Here you’re using it sarcastically and previously you were trying to implying the “real meaning” behind my words\n\nYeah violent music is angry? But not all angry music is violent? Like duh? I mean I guess I would agree that rap is more violent than most other genres too, but that’s not my original claim and there’s plenty of non-violent angry rap music\n\nYou’re so mind-bogglingly retarded that there’s really just no point",
"Yep that’s the one. I was outside on the path towards the tent. Maybe 200 ft from the entrance. Still getting crushed as people tried to cram in. \n\nIm glad so many others had the same experience. For a long time I thought I was just a worry wart for feeling scared.",
"It is the real meaning behind your words the fuck? \n\n\nYou're saying rap is angry? Is rap from black people?\n\nYou're just so mind-bogglingly retarded you don't see what's wrong with what you're saying until someone holds up the mirror!\n\nWhat you're saying is like saying Rock is violent and/or angry because Heavy Metal is part of Rock.\n\nIf the above comment had said \"drill rap is blah blah blah\" I wouldn't have to be reading your verbal diarrhea right now. But they're trying to make a blanket statement about rap in a way that is plain wrong.\n\nIf you're a dumb piece of shit who can only find angry rap, that's on you. I said it before, a cover of \"I'm too sexy for my fucking shirt\" got more streams in a month than the average rappers entire fucking discography.\n\nYou're a dumb motherfucker who doesn't want to face the reality of what they said, so feel free to bury your head in the sand.",
"No not all rap is from black people\n\nDude rap is literally an angry genre at a statistical level, that’s just reality. Sure it’s not every song, but if you classified every song in different popular genres as “angry” or “not angry” then rap would come in 2nd after metal\n\nI literally even made the explicit point that I wasn’t making any societal commentary on what that means or whether it’s good or bad. You can conjecture all day about what my implications are, but the honest truth is I barely fucking care. I just hate when people make claims that are plain fucking wrong because they’re worried about some sort of tangential conclusions that bad faith actors could make\n\nDo you actually disagree with the above? That if we conducted an experiment which asked a statistically significant sampling of the population to classify Top 100 songs of Top 20 genres as “angry” or “not angry”, rap would come in 2nd place after metal in terms of the median percentage of songs that were classified as angry? Because that’s literally my entire point. And if you do disagree with this, which genres do you think would be angrier?",
"Rap is black music. You are a piece of shit if you're unironically trying to take something that black people made and developed and act like it's not ours because other (white) people hopped on it.\n\n\nIs Hindustani music not Indian once some white classical studies major plays some tracks at a concert?\n\n\n> That if we conducted an experiment which asked a statistically significant sampling of the population to classify Top 100 songs of Top 20 genres as “angry” or “not angry”, rap would come in 2nd place after metal (assuming metal is in top 20)?\n\n\nYou just did it again, because you're a racist piece of shit and can't see it.\n\nWhen it's white people music, Metal gets to be separate of Rock. Because angry white man is just putting on a show, it's not the same. \n\nWhen it's black people music, Lil Nas X talking about his struggles as a gay person in the music industry and convicted murderer drill rapping about homicide are the same genre. Because what? Why would you group less successful sub genres of rap that end up containing most of the anger with most successful sub genres that are practically pop at this point (it's literally called pop rap!). \n\n---\n\nIt's because you have your preconceived notion and are working backwards to reinforce it.\n\nWe can continue this conversation when you work out your little issue there.",
"Dude music doesn’t belong to a race. Like obviously black people produce the majority of rap and white people produce the majority of rock/metal, but that doesn’t make rap “black people music” and metal “white people music”. Like music is supposed to bring people together fuck off with the race shit\n\nYou can classify metal as a subgenre of rap if you want. I think that would just mean that rap became #1 angry instead of #2 because metal is a tiny subgenre.\n\nIf you want to classify both drill rap and metal as subgenres, then sure metal is still #1 followed by drill rap as #2, but I think #3 would be some other rap subgenre. But maybe it’s not and it’s some rock subgenre, that’s a totally valid opinion if you want. There’s definitely some rock music out there that’s angry af\n\nI’m not super current on artists of last 5 years but I wouldn’t even call Lil Nas X rap, I would call it pop. And pop isn’t angry so him not being angry doesn’t contradict anything I’ve said\n\nDude I hate to say this shit and it shouldn’t matter, but my long-term gf is black and I’m fairly confident my future will involve half-black children. Come off with the race shit, I’m literally just talking about music\n\nIf you think rock is more angry than rap that’s fine, thinking back at some rock songs I might not even disagree, but like fuck off with all the shit you’re implying about me",
"This is true, here In LA gig culture, especially when it comes to hardcore is a bit different to let’s say Richmond VA, or Massachusetts. LA shows are usually pretty mellow with your obvious crowd killing and two step pits. But The hardcore scene in VA and Massachusetts are notoriously known for being another breed lol fights and fights. But I’ve heard they’ve mellowed it out.",
"I remember like 3 years ago at some massive Punk show in Santa Ana, Ca the cops came in and bomb squad because somebody spotted a grenade in the middle of Santa Ana strip lmao. Turns out there was a grenade, but was a prop one that somebody was using for fashion on their jacket. That was a crazy day,",
"Yeah, Punks sometimes wear bullet shells as an clothing accesory, and that’s normal to me, but man someone really brought an empty grenade shell this time. Lol common sense came up short this time",
"I went to see exodus live, dude splits the crowd in half Moses style, and said he wants everyone on the left to kill everyone on the right and vice versa lol. Did anyone die? No. Don't you think sometimes you gotta make people liable for their own actions?",
"There is a police report on the incident and he fucking admits the whole thing you goddamn shameless misogynist!\n\nPolice report: http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/03/05/brown.warrant.pdf",
"Shameless misogynist? Yeah sure... it's my opinion, and there is most likely alot more to it.",
"I'm an ER physician, and have discussed this silly reddit thread with a couple other docs at my shop. They all agree, if you find someone pulseless, and aren't actively being trampled, you start CPR, and thereby potentially save someone's life. You don't transport them to the medical tent because \"it's the only safe place to perform CPR\", that's fucking moronic. If people want to interpret my original comment as \"always begin CPR even if you're in a situation where you can be killed\" then respond with \"hurr durr, CPR only works 15% of the time\", then they can. IDGAF.",
"No, it's not.",
">During the Battle of the Philippine Sea in WWII, a fighter pilot from the Japanese carrier Taiho deliberately crashed his plane into the sea in the path of a torpedo, giving his life in an effort to save the 2150 crewmen aboard his ship. We certainly know enough about Japan's actions during WWII to be confident in calling them the bad guys. But does that mean his action wasn't heroic?\n\nIf only the Prequels were about that story from WWII.\n\nHere's a WWII analogy that equally badly defends the admittedly stupid TFA crawl you quoted in the same manner:\n\nThe Japanese engaged in a masterful display of logistics, secrecy, and disinformation in order to execute coordinated surprise attacks against multiple different targets in the Pacific all on the same day. Or, as it would seem to an uninformed rank-and-file American soldier, *\"somehow the Japanese got the drop on us\"*. See, The Force Awakens is just like WWII.\n\nIn reality, the movie didn't portray any act of heroism or display of heroic virtue performed by any member of the CIS and they are uniformly written as bad guys. Context matters. \"Heroes on both sides\" is a nonsensical cliche when you consider the context of the movie it was introducing. Where are the heroes on the side of the Separatists? Also, *somehow they've captured Palpatine*.",
"Right…which is not what I said now the tab is still open in safari. In android it would have closed the tab in safari.",
"Like [this bullshit](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8Xs7o9j/) I assume.",
"My explanation has nothing to do with the reason people were injured. The “why” I’m referring to is why he flipped off an ambulance. \n\nWhy did people end up dying at his show? Well, if he had a history of dangerous things like this happening at his shows, then I’m pretty sure yes that’s relevant to the “why” of the deaths happening.",
"Ahh ok... thanks for the explanation.",
"not if they're standing on his chest, also can't you see he's purple?? another thing is that pain and abdominal injuries don't let you breathe properly, dumbass",
"yeah when her head hit the floor it sounded so loud :(",
"I didn't say he was fine you retard. \n\nI said there's a chance. It's happened before at the big fire in the 90s. \n\nThe survivors wer on the ground and position their bodies perpendicular to the crush. \n\nBut I guess that never happened because I'm a dumbass for mentioning it? Now jog on, prick.",
"Im not stupid, you don’t have to make things personal. Just because you don’t see me doesn’t mean I don’t have feelings. I thought those two guys were his crew, I didn’t realize they were fans. I made a mistake, being rude isn’t necessary.",
"Travis Scott is a serial killer if he provokes pushing through barriers that are set up for safety of his concert goers. This is not an isolated incident. He is a free walking around serial killer and so is everybody else who did nothing to stop the madness that very well could have. He was paid by those who ended up dead in the hospital. To me that is the sickest kind of serial killer there ever was.",
"THis one has lots of in-crowd videos too: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZnCtbn8c5w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZnCtbn8c5w)\n\nIt looks terrifying. \n\nAnd it's also crazy how many people in these videos are are just smashed up against other people to be at this concert they're mostly just filming with their iPhone rather than even watching/paying attention to people around them. Everything about the situation just looks awful. (Not blaming the fans for the awful shit that happened here; just saying I really don't see the appeal of being at this show at all).",
"That’s a lot of ego, makes sense.\n\nYou’re trying to twist and contort the situation so that you can still be seen as “correct” instead of eating crow and owning your mistake.\n\nIn a scenario where the victim has been literally crushed to incapacitation how is that a safe environment to be knelt down over somebody? Even if you can somehow make a case that it’s safe (you can’t) how would you make a case for even being able to perform CPR in a crowd dense enough to crush you? How would you be able to continue compressions at a minimum?\n\nGod I hope you’re never my doctor. If your first idea doesn’t cure me you’ll probably stick with it until it kills me. Your ego is wild.",
"sure, \"it happened before\" one case in the 90s and you don't know all the conditions to make a comparison\n\nput yourself under a lot of people jumping above you and tell us how it went.",
"Nobody is jumping when there's a crowd crush.\n\nIt seems you don't even understand what I'm talking about, but yet here you are talking shit like a complete bellend.",
"Nice attempt to distract from which culture did this.",
"Actually that sub is growing exponentially..",
"Yes, because they are there to support the victims and to recount and keep up with the story. I didnt mean literally leaving the sub, leaving him as in not listening to his music. Which if you browse for about 10 minutes you’ll find a bunch of threads and comments saying they are off him for a while",
"The word trap as referring to a genre of music has changed meaning from what it meant in the 2010s",
"Im not sure about electronic music or any other genre being referred to trap music, so I won’t even comment on that. With rap/hip hop there is a trap music or trap rap and Travis Scott definitely doesnt make that kind of music. Examples of trap for rappers is Chief Keef, Gucci Mane, and Young Jeezy. Travis Scott isn’t anything like them nor makes music like them. I also dont think the definition of trap within the rap/hip hop community has changed",
"That is not what it said. He just mentions that the person was partly to blame for the conservatorship when she actually needed at the time. Just because it turned out shitty didn't mean she didn't need it. It's like calling the police for help because your friend wants to commit suicide but when the police came, they shot him instead. Calling was the right call. But blaming you instead of the police would be dumb. The comment was trying to blame buddy for the disastrous conservatorship.",
"Oh no my fat fingers/autocorrect disqualified me from reading comprehension. Boo ho!. You fan boys/girls are so pathetic. The lady went through a psychotic break in public view and needed help. Get over it and stop trying to rewrite history. 😒",
"Yeah, me, a random redditor reading the news is definitely part of the problem. `direct your hate here!`",
"Well, did she have any input into who the conservator would be?",
"He is trash.",
"Bruh…. Looked like he was passed out or dead, from everyone standing/trampling on him. At one point it looked like a girl was higher up than everyone, guy two…. Like they were standing on hind to see the stage better or something. \nThat’s scary as hell, imagine falling down on your back, and everyone starts standing, walking, running on you. And there are so many that you cant get up, or make them stop, can’t even use your hands…. Just have to lay there, and pray no one uses your face as a step stool… I face the way his face looked. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got knocked while people were stepping, and standing",
"Neither of us were there buddy. My point is to always start CPR as soon as possible. Yours is “don’t do CPR while being trampled to death”. Weird personal attacks aside, I think we’re both right. 👍",
"Is it a coincidence that he's wearing isotoners?",
"Travis the Trash 🗑",
"Based on the potential liability amounts suggested by experts, if Travis Scott is determined to bear even some degree of legal responsibility, the civil suits could wipe him out financially. And deservedly so.",
"> Promoters and ticketing agencies will likely start including increasingly elaborate and unconscionable limitation of liability clauses in their terms and conditions\n\nTrue, but the law in almost every state prohibits disclaimers of liability for reckless conduct. And in some cases, negligence as well.\n\n>can’t afford complex … case[s]\n\nMost personal injury and tort cases like these are contingency based, remediating any financial outlay worries by plaintiffs who’ve been harmed. Why? Because the attorney assumes the costs and risks of litigation, to be compensated after settlement or judgment.",
"Lol. Keep popping off when you havent educated yourself on what your talking about . Thats why youre part of the problem.",
"The rule is you spell them correctly, just like any other word. IE, if I called you --Caestlee-- that would be a misspelling, regardless of if millions of people loved it.",
"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music\n\nSince crossing over into the mainstream in the 2010s, trap has become one of the most popular forms of American music, consistently dominating the Billboard Hot 100 throughout the decade, with artists such as Drake, Future, Cardi B, Migos, Lil Uzi Vert, Post Malone, XXXTentacion, Juice WRLD, Young Thug, and Travis Scott (among many others)",
"**[Trap music](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music)** \n \n >Trap is a subgenre of hip hop music that originated in the Southern United States during the early 1990s. The genre gets its name from the Atlanta slang word \"trap\", a house used exclusively to sell drugs. Trap music uses synthesized drums and is characterized by complex hi-hat patterns, tuned kick drums with a long decay (originally from the Roland TR-808 drum machine), and lyrical content that often focuses on drug use and urban violence. It utilizes very few instruments and focuses almost exclusively on snare drums and double- or triple-timed hi-hats.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"Because hip hop culture celebrates misogyny, violence, drug use just to name a few. There are racists. But hip hop as a genre is outdated as far as views of reality go. 13 year olds eat up the shit because that's all the things 13 year olds like. Also, noone going in on Kendrick or chance. It's this garbage trap pop that is the problem. Not real hip hop.",
"He didn't almost beat her to death. That is such a stretch of the facts. What he did to her was already bad enough there's no need to lie to make it sound any different",
"You must know what the answer is, and you're just saying that rhetorically, but... it's because \"Brittany\" is how the name is normally spelled. Easy mistake to make.",
"\"I'm gonna make the ground shake!\" \n\n \n\nPeople on the ground like \"NOOOOOO!\"",
"Wow, rich and famous people act like they're all high and mighty and their shit don't stink, but damn... they are no better than us. They also want to punch Rihanna.",
"I totally understand, but she’s been one of the most famous pop stars in the world for 2 decades! I feel like it would be the same as spelling Beyoncé as Beeonse or something like that hahahaha",
"If \"Beeonse\" had been the standard way to spell it for generations, then yeah, it'd be exactly like that. \n \nLet's not forget that many people don't follow music news or buy albums, so the only way they know of pop stars is hearing the names said aloud.",
"I agree. It’s not that serious of an issue. Just find it really funny considering the news have been flooded with Britney’s case! Lol \n\nBut yeah, no discussion from my part, I was just wondering.",
"\\#CancelTravisScott https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAy74Kp6NHc",
"I don't care where you live I know you could have walked into McDonald's and told em Cactus Jack sent ya.",
"That was just uncalled for.",
"Strong thank you. \n\nGetting rather roasted for not following pop culture.",
"imagine being underneath a mob of people when he says \"i wanna make this mother fucking ground shake god damnit!\"",
"How selfish and shallow do you have to be to do this to first responders. And people call for the disbanding of police but after shit like this happens they want them back",
"That is literally what that tweet is leaglly.\n\nTwitter is non-protected public speech. He is liable for his actions. It would incredibly easy for a lawyer to prove that was inciting given his previous criminal record. \n\nYou need to do some research still. Learn how liability for public speech works, and then check back in.",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EORH8Nx6FHU\n\nThey maintain control of the crowd, a circle has already been established around the people invovled, with the rest of the crowd not doing anything beyond usual. It's agreed upon beforehand by all involved and known it will occur, with a long pause for people to get out of the pit if needed.\n\nYes people should be liable for their own actions. If Travis Scott had exhibited that level of crowd control, it wouldn't be an issue, thus should be liable.",
"Fuck Travis Scott. Guy should be blackballed from the music industry for how recklessly he handled this situation. I’ve been in lots of mosh pits and the bands would always pause the music and calm the crowds down if people were in danger.",
"Proving he knew it was out of control. He stopped for 28 seconds before starting to sing again….. that lil clip ppl wanna show to exonerate him proves his awareness of his surroundings",
"How do you build up karma?",
"Is everyone in here deaf or did they willingly ignore the part in which he said “if everybody good put your middle finger up in the sky”? \n\n46.6K upvotes, thousands of comments and I’ve only seen one person point it out.",
"Oh yeah he can totally see but obviously his defense will be that he didn’t. He’s a damn jerk",
"you guys are like genuinely stupid. floyd mayweather has put in years and years to become the best boxer in history, who cares if he can read? dumb doesn’t take away from his talent. in the same way the comments you replied to was calling travis scott an idiot who lucked into his life, when he’s one of the most talented producers of the generation. these are things none of you can do, no matter how much smarter you guys think you are than genuinely talented people.",
"I think you replied to the wrong comment",
"Holy shit that’s like falling in to quicksand in a small rock tunnel you can’t move but you are also fluid and being crushed from all angles. Truly terrifying, it’s absolutely tragic.",
"It’s crazy to me - thinking about 50k people being there to listen to his awful music. I feel so bad that people got hurt and also don’t understand anyone enjoying this music.",
"The more videos that surface the Internet worse it gets for this dude. Such a tragedy. Prayers for the families of the fallen ones🙏🏾 and the ones effected by this day\n.",
"Oh yeah def. I am sure all the parents with kids there never thought it would be how it was, or they never would’ve taken them. The fact that TS is marketed towards kids is demented and evil",
"Fading vs eternal",
"I remember being at an industrial show at the Bottom Lounge in Chicago a few years ago, and my 79 year old mom was feeling physically ill. So we decided to leave. We weaved our way through the crowd, and finally made it to the last row of people. There was some punk dude standing there, and I politely asked him to let my mom through so we could leave the venue. His response: \"I'm not moving, so deal with it.\"\n\nThat was when it hit me how self-absorbed and entitled some people can be when they go to concerts, thinking that it's all about them and nobody else's safety or well-being even matters.",
"How ironic. Consider just how hard he is going to be fucked going forward.",
"Thx",
"Absolute piece of shit. And you got idiots who idolize him…fucking losers",
"“And it ain’t a mosh pit if there ain’t no injuries” - Travis scott",
"“Ay yo that ambulance didn’t pay for a ticket. Fuck that ambulance”",
"Both he & Kylie knew wtf was going on",
"Gave me flashbacks to when i was 13 and I slipped through my floaty in the deep end of the wavepool and as soon as i managed to get back up the waves forced me back under with no time to take a breath while my sister just sat there laughing and the lifeguard took almost 5 minutes to do anything",
"People are defending Cameron Herrin, the guy who ran over a mother and her daughter because he's \"cute\". Of course they will defend Chris Brown.",
"Moron",
"Poor ignorant fool was trying to make the most of this moment…. All his sheep listened properly",
"Hey, maybe because you’ve seen the video and look for exits… it could save your life one day. (Although, I sincerely hope you never find yourself in a situation where you’d need to find the exits)",
"Dude, so glad you made it… That sounds terrifying. I cannot believe how easy it is for people to gain the crowd mentality and just completely disregard others’ safety.",
"There’s nothing shameful about me trying to be balanced by offering up another viewpoint which i got from another source (On youtube if you look up chris brown, he did a documentary about his life and mentioned it, I watched the clip explaining his side). If he’s fabricated that then okay that’s not acceptable. Nonetheless, I think it’s always important to see both sides of the story. I admit a mistake if i was misinformed but that doesn’t make me a bad person nor do I feel ashamed. \n\nWhen you don’t hear both sides of the story that’s when innocent people get locked up, as small a percentage as that may or may not be."
] | 5,470 |
videos
|
Travis Scott clearly sees the ambulance and then tells everyone to put up a middle finger
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot72wrVYR7c
|
/r/videos/comments/qpijbz/yakkos_world_but_its_only_the_countries_americans/
|
[
"Was honestly expecting it to cut after Mexico.",
"I reckon this is meant to be just countries which Americans KNOW, not necessarily those which they can PLACE",
"I didn't know half of those",
"We actually learned then all in 6th grade. Now how much of that I remember still is another story.",
"This was dumb the first time it was posted, unfunny the 54,732nd time it was posted, and it's dumb and unfunny now.\n\nWe get it. ALL Americans are fat. ALL Americans are ignorant about geography. ALL Americans drink shitty beer. How original.\n\nYou all are just pissed off that America has had the same 50 states longer than any of you have been alive, while you have to learn new country names every few years when your continent has another ethnic cleansing. Sucks to be you.",
"That is the most American comment I have ever read on reddit in my entire life.\nAlso one of the most ridiculous ones, I doubt there's any correlation though.",
"Well, fucking duh. Why the fuck would any non-American rant about all the morons making the same lame generalizations about America? Of course it's an American comment.\n\nAre you European? How long have all the countries on your map had the same names, about a year and a half? You probably only saw Yugoslavia in history books, but I remember when it was a place. I used to be able to name every country in Europe, even the silly ones like Andorra, but I can't keep up with all the new ones. Bosnia and Herzegovina sounds like two countries, but it's just one. That's not confusing at all.",
"Your points, while true, aren't necessarily countering the joke being made at Americas expense.\n\nI think the important thing for you here is to try to understand WHY people are making fun of America with stereotyping.\n\nEvery country has it's own stereotypes that people make fun of, personally in comparison I think America gets off pretty gosh darn easy.\n\nThe stereotype being poked fun at here is literally just that they've lived in a bubble for most of their lives, America is pretty young compared to some countries, \n\nThat baseball championship \"The world series\" sounds fun, how many countries from the world take part in it?\n\nGrowing up when the internet happened you could always tell the Americans in the chatrooms because they're the only people on the planet who reply to \"where are you from?\" with a couple of capital letters jammed together, clearly typed assuming the other people in the group would understand where that was, luckily by now we've all picked up a lot of the names of American states through TV, movies and for some certain states, news articles.\n\nAlso you're talking like America has never debated about the names of it's states', or whether or not they count as states. I think America is pretty even with the naming confusion.\n\nI'm from England, but I couldn't say the naming of my country is easy because of all the confusion surrounding \"The British Isles\" \"the United Kingdom\" and of course the Scottish and Irish constantly trying to kill us and have their countries physically seperated from us somehow.\n\nAlthough talking of which, America is a big contender for \"Countries who refuse to call us English\" which I suspect is 50% ignorance and 50% \"not getting over the war\".\n\nAn American would call a person from Scotland \"Scottish\" , a person from Ireland \"Irish\" but when it comes to a person from England, yep, you guessed it, they're \"British\" and while I could easily die inside everytime I see it, I just shrug it off as Americans living up to their stereotype, all while knowing of course that stereotypes, while on paper have facts that can back them up, but are very much not representative of a countries people, I've been to America a couple times and I had great times, friendly people, amazing architecture, beautiful natural country.\n\nTake a joke guy, go shoot something, I'm off to brush my horrific teeth and have a cup of hot leaf water.",
"And here I thought I was drunk. You will wake up tomorrow afternoon, drunker than I've ever been in my life, if your ramblings are any indication. Russian guys are saying you should take it easy, maybe have a cuppa or a glass of water.",
"Yes WE lived in the bubble *laughs*. Europe, especially the socialist countries have lived under America's wing far too long for the pot to be calling the kettle black at this point. I think its about damn time you guys worry about your own gd mother effing countries and stay out of our politics. You don't even get it when we hand you your own set of keys so just stay home. Also, let's try naming the Asian ones. I can.",
"\"under Americas wing\"???? Ahahaha, yeah, nah.",
"You can't even have a knife to cut your own steak and you would throw your neighbor in jail for teaching his dog to \"hail hitler\". He may be a dick, but jail? When you don't need the government to cut your own meat and you can say whatever you want, get back to me. Also you are on closed circuit camera EVERYWHERE. That really has to suck.",
"The hail Hitler dog guy was Scottish, nowt to do with my country pal!\n\nThis is tiring, you win, America is the best country in the entire universe and every other country is smelly and brown, I sincerely apologise for suggesting otherwise.\n\nAll hail big 'Murica, may it continue to save the rest of the world from ourselves.",
"We aren't saving you guys anymore. That was why America elected Trump in the first place, so we could stop bleeding at the hip paying more for Europe's defense than Europeans were paying themselves. I am sure you all hated having our tit removed from your mouths, but it was necessary.\n\nScotland is in Europe btw, thanks Yako!",
"I'm from England, Scotland and Europe want absolutely nothing to do with us, go on ask them.\n\nHow do you know about the nazi dog but not Brexit?",
"I still think Brexit was a step in the right direction myself but, obviously not my circus, not my monkeys.",
"India? i hardly know her",
"*Americans*: duuuur this isn't correct (continues to never look at a map)",
"lol I love this ^^^"
] | 20 |
videos
|
Yakko's World but it's only the countries Americans know
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzpxjuwZy0
|
/r/videos/comments/qpixtx/house_of_pain_jump_around_official_music_video_do/
|
[
"Gotta love still the Street Fighter 2 game reference, try to take me out like as if my name was Zeigef, or however I spell that boss leaders named. Reminds me of the 70s and 80s, many Irish still left in NYC. And boy could they fight",
"Wow! Nobody loves that song? Or maybe somebody doesn't like me without know me? That is really weird, but in a way or another the important is somebody is thinking about me, and it is feeling really really bad! I am really sorry about whoever it is. Sorry for my grammar mistakes but my first language is not English. Enjoy your day and think positive.",
"> try to play me out like as if my name was Sega\n\nFTFY",
"my wiggas"
] | 4 |
videos
|
House of Pain - Jump Around (Official Music Video). Do you remember?
|
https://youtu.be/3OR_D2EEPS4
|
/r/videos/comments/qpjwcp/excuse_me_maam_no_porn_at_the_bar_0012/
|
[
"I'm sure this thread will be reasoned, civil and without controversy.",
"RRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!",
"Hmmm 🤔 🧐 🤨 \n\nI’ve no idea what you mean. I just wanna share this very nice YouTube video 👌 👍 ✅",
"lmao when did this episode of family guy air?",
"Whenever it did, it was prophetic as fuck",
"Nope, doesn't seem like you have an agenda here. All right boys, it all checks out! Seth MacFarlane is funny again!",
"Always has been",
"I dislike Family Guy, but I gotta admit, this made me laugh.",
"We ain’t never gonna get content like this on the front page anyway because of the woke agendas. Enjoy it while u can",
"the only one with an agenda here is you, you fucking loser haha. get a fucking life, bro. reddit isn't real life. sorry.\n\nedit: i mean, just look at his comment history. this is a classic troll loser. he's got nothing better to do, so he tries to argue with people who live their life however they want, and not like poor wiw baby OP thinks they should. sad!"
] | 13 |
videos
|
excuse me maam, no porn at the bar [00:12]
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-oVXYkBwgw
|
/r/videos/comments/qpk4t3/why_this_falling_rocks_sign_is_more_important/
|
[
"Am I the only one thinking why don't they just move the road?",
"There's a few of these traffic lights scattered around in Switzerland. We also use them in locations where the road is routinely threatened by landslides after heavy rainfall.",
"Way cheaper to set up a radar and a traffic light...",
"Expensive and alternatives might be even worse.\n\nTraffic light would still be needed no matter what they did with the road alignment.",
"And the signs only in native language, because tourists is not a thing",
"I mean is the sign really gonna help? One of those rocks falls you're fucked regardless.",
"He's actually speaking german with a heavy swiss accent. Swiss accents are very destinct tough!",
"I sure hope the tourists will understand the universal concept of a traffic light.",
"See the video and you understand it. Spoiler: its not only the sign.",
"> He's actually speaking german with a heavy swiss accent.\n\nYeah so Swiss German, no?",
"No, no. Swiss german is a different dialect, which most germans wouldn't understand or just when spoken slowly. Swiss people usually speak swiss high german when talking to people from other (non allemanic) german speaking countries, which often gets missinterpreted as swiss german by those.",
"It's weird that he says \"worst case scenario\" in English but nothing else. Either way neat.",
"He actually didn't, he said \"worst case-Szenario\", so only the \"worst case\" was actually in English. Which is maybe kinda funny anyway, but I'd say it's the common term in German, at least in an engineering context, so doesn't sound weird to me at all.",
"You have to consider how often they have to repair the road.\n\nThey probably did the math and included that.",
"No... \n\nThis is falling rock, not crushing rap.",
"Yes, but some people run red lights, and this is not even in a crossing.",
"Yeah what driver could possibly know what a red light means",
"Well technically yes, but no. Swiss German (Schweizerdeutsch (de-de) / Schwiizerdüütsch (de-ch)) is the vernacular language in the German-speaking parts of Switzerland. It is more-or-less intelligible for Germans in the South-West of Germany, but for most German speakers it's not really understandable at all.\n\nThe man is speaking Swiss High German (Schweizer Hochdeutsch) which is the Swiss dialect of the standard German language, which is 100% intelligible for all German speakers.\n\nJust some fun facts for you!",
"This isn’t in America. If you put your cat in the microwave, you’re the one who’s gonna get sued, not the company for not putting a label on it. \nThe concept is best explained in German: Eigenverantwortung.",
"Is every single Tom Scott video posted here? O.o",
"I'm from Sweden and is aware of the concept. My thoughts are for the Americans..",
"Go milk a reindeer.",
"\"Why this video is useless clickbait\"",
"Or just extend the dam or dig a ditch",
"Lmao what is your point?"
] | 26 |
videos
|
Why this "falling rocks" sign is more important than most - Tom Scott
|
https://youtu.be/M7SrO-D2TwQ
|
/r/videos/comments/qpk6px/grant_cardone_is_officially_a_fake_guru/
|
[
"Same intensity, different message.",
"This is dumb thinking.\n\nSaving small amounts of money and investing it has huge benefits if someone is poor.\n\nYou can 100% improve your life by watching pennies, nickels, dimes etc... And investing a small.amount of money into a blue chip profitable company that pays a dividend. Over time.\n\nIts not so much the act of saving pennies, its the habits you build.\n\nIve been poor, slaving away at arbys for $7/HR and most of my coworkers spent all of their money, not on necessities, but on dumb crap.\n\nOne guy barely drove because he needed $40 of gas to last a month, but went out for drinks every weekend spending over $100.\n\nBut he had his food and housing covered. If he instead invested it hed be much better off today",
"https://tonyortega.org/category/grant-cardone/",
"It's a penny a minute"
] | 4 |
videos
|
Grant Cardone Is Officially a Fake Guru
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpk7gt/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qpk7gt/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"The way she has had to deal with her abuse and then multiple personalities is nothing short of extraordinary.",
"James McAvoy did it better.",
"Americas fetishization of mental health issues is disturbing.",
"Get over it",
"r/fakedisordercringe",
"Right? What a douchebag. Boo America!"
] | 6 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://youtu.be/qPMKqyaXtHI
|
/r/videos/comments/qpk9y9/why_mensa_is_full_of_idiots/
|
[
"Why? Did I miss that part?",
"Waking up to a David Mitchell video, yay! That scratches my cerebral & funny bone itch for the morning - kudos kind poster",
"Tl;dw: truly smart people feel no need to “prove” they are smart by joining Mensa. The only people who join are people who aren’t smart but feel the need to prove they are by some arbitrary test.\n\nEdit: a word",
"Ah. How's that membership working out for you?",
"I’m literally paraphrasing what he said in the video. Didn’t say it was my opinion. You asked what he was saying and I explained.",
"Whoosh",
"Be nice, say thanks",
"It’s a pretty pretentious membership criteria.",
"No, because none of the things you’ve mentioned are measures of intelligence for its own sake.",
"The real intelligence test is if you pay for a worthless membership.^Didn't ^come ^up ^with ^that ^...",
"I just followed your whole exchange. I think you should apply to join MENSA.",
"I'm the president! Obvi",
"The impression I've gotten from the Mensa crowd is that it is just a place for lonely people with high \"IQ's\" to hang out and play board games and the like. \n\nThere are definitely those that go there whom entire identity hangs off the idea that they are smart. Usually these are usually teenagers/younger folk who haven't developed a identity and/or need justification for why they are an outcast or some old washed up guy trying to justify why the world doesn't treat him like they think it should. \n\nBut generally its just there for people who have trouble connecting with other people because their brain works in different ways.",
"David Mitchell is very precisely rated.",
"I would also recommend listening to \"My year in Mensa\" to understand how nutty this organization has become.",
"I once met a Frank Sinatra impersonator who had the Mensa logo on his business card.",
"Because simply having a high IQ has no value, as the video this comment section is about explained. The reason the test exists is because the people within the club seem to believe that there is, and that value is \"We're not dumb enough to fail the test\" vs \"We are smart enough to pass the test\". And that is the joke for anyone with real, valuable intelligence and the accomplishments to prove it. And why pretentious is the word that most would use for it.",
"I wish he'd start making these videos again.",
"I want to start a club for people who looked at a (or *the*) Mensa test and said, \"ha ha, no thanks.\" \n\nThe only winning move is not to play.",
"ha ha, no thanks.",
"> when I applied to join Mensa\n\nYou really didn't need to clarify that you joined. It was abundantly clear from your hilarious defensive responses.",
"People who join Mensa just aren't rich enough to get into Harvard. It's just to show off how 'elite' you are.",
"nice try, you're in. See you Tuesday night. Bring snacks.",
"He said the same thing about going on Taskmaster on Richard Herring's podcast recently. People think he'd be good on taskmaster, so by actually going on the show all he can do is remain the same or prove them wrong and embarrass himself.",
"The only true test of intelligence is membship to the Jar Jar Binx fan club. \n\n\nMEESA",
"yall are already in the group homo sapiens sapiens tho",
">IQ is a measurement of intelligence.\n \nNot a very good one though. It's rather biased, only attempts to measure a fairly narrow band of intelligence, and has a slew of other problems associated with it (especially if you look into the history of them). You can study for them and get a higher score, which doesn't really make sense for a test that is mean to test some kind of \"innate intelligence\". There is an entire section which basically just test your vocabulary, which is obviously going to disadvantage anybody not taking it in their native language.",
"Fun fact: Mensa means stupid in spanish.",
"So, kinda like Reddit before the internet?",
"If those people really were intelligent, they'd just be professors or tech types and would play golf with the other professors and tech types.\n\nMensa just strikes me as people with innate intelligence who don't have the other necessary skills to navigate life like emotional intelligence or the drive to work hard. \n\nThe world's smartest (measured) man is a conspiracy theorist who claims that he can prove the existence of God with math, but George Bush did 9/11 to distract people from his theorem. Cross him with comic-book guy and you have the epitome of a Mensa member.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan",
"My sisters ex husband was the kind of guy you would say \"oh wow hes actually smart\" of. I always felt like he just had to prove to everyone that wasnt just a jobless loser, so he joined mensa.",
"Dude I’m so addicted I love this podcast",
"People just totally glossing over this comedy gold. So uncivilized.",
"David Mitchell is adequately rated",
"Yup agree with u and it can be pretty useful",
"I bet a guy who makes a living \"impersonating\" has no qualms stealing Mensa valor. 100% fake/non-member.",
"> If those people really were intelligent, they'd just be professors or tech types and would play golf with the other professors and tech types.\n\nPoverty and other societal problems can prevent exactly that. Not everybody can achieve such positions.\n\n>Mensa just strikes me as people with innate intelligence who don't have the other necessary skills to navigate life like emotional intelligence or the drive to work hard.\n\nThe truly intelligent people I have met and worked with in my life were (and are) working harder than everybody else, and also displayed extreme levels of emotional intelligence.",
"I’m saying that Mensa contains smart people who aren’t advanced beyond their innate abilities. Not the types of smart people you mention here. Specifically that this society caters to that group, including Jimmy Savile!",
">IQ is a measurement of intelligence\n\nIt isn't though. That's the whole problem.",
"For starters, IQ tests do not come anywhere close to measuring intelligence.",
"It means canteen/cafeteria in Italian.",
"How smart can the smart club be if they named themselves \"stupid\"? And it's not in an obscure or archaic language... it's Spanish.",
"No, for people with *high* IQ!",
"This joke is old enough to join Mensa.",
"I thought the same and looked into it.\n\nI got a little \"Join Mensa\" booklet that, from front to back, was full of Mensa merchandise to display to the world that you're in Mensa.\n\nWatches, T-shirts, jackets, paperweights, clocks.....a bunch of different shit with \"I'm a member of Mensa\" written on it.\n\nAnd some small text, at the bottom of the back page, directing you to a website for meet-ups.\n\nI'm sure there are great people in it, but their target demographic seemed to be the kind of people that everybody makes fun of Mensa for, which makes me think that they're probably a hefty majority (if not just where they get the most money, in a \"whale\" type situation).",
"Jimmy Saville was in mensa. Not trying to say anything.",
"His bit reminds me of this podcast.\n\nhttps://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-my-year-in-mensa-55379945/",
"Why would I, I haven’t posited that.",
"[Mega Society](https://megasociety.org/).\n\n>The most elite ultra High IQ Society is the Mega Society with 26 members with percentiles of 99.9999 or 1 in a million.",
"Debatable, but if true, not a rebuttal.",
"If I can study for an iq test to increase my score, did my intelligence just increase?",
"I love this comment. It is either a brilliant sentence of satire that is genuinely hilarious, or the dumbest thing I have read today.",
"why is wealth the measurement here? is that relevant in the slightest?",
"Because the Ivy Leagues are marketed as schools for the rich and academic elite. They're prestige institutions.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/GbeVu6iEtys\n\nIn the digital information age, the place you go to school to actually learn information is growing increasingly irrelevant. For universities, it's more about the physical networking and who you meet is what matters.\n\nWhat frat or sorority or clubs you join plays a bigger role in success than the actual information these schools provide. That's not to dismiss academia itself but realistically a lot of people can get by with community college and more affordable universities and still get decent careers in fields they're passionate about.\n\nUS student loan debt is over $1.5 trillion due to people being jacked on courses they don't need and paying high prices for schools and not being able to get jobs. Schools used to be a lot more rigid on admissions but the government made it illegal for students to default on loans. After that, schools turned predatory and expanded to start teaching all kinds of bullshit classes that students are forced to take. It's a shady racket that favours the upper class.",
"Answer the question.",
"It was ironic and no one got it. I lol'd when I wrote it",
"I would like to rant about the problems with the \"mensa select\" award someday. \n\nLike someone who watches 2 of the 5 oscar nominees and picks a winner of the 2 they watched.",
"The most common test is the WAIS-IV, which has a vocabulary section. All of the professional done IQ tests i had to take over my time at school had vocabulary sections. \n \nWhile higher IQ does correlate with being more traditionally successful, a large part of that is likely due to independent outside factors that impact both (upbringing, familial wealth, etc..",
"came in to recommend this podcast - it's really a fun/fascinating listen",
"I don’t know what you’re talking about anymore. Why not just answer my question?",
"First thing to keep in mind is that these tests make no attempt to test for social intelligence or creativity, both of which would generally be considered an aspect of being intelligent. \n \nIn addition to this, some sections of the test cannot give accurate scores to anybody who falls outsude of certain norms. For example, anybody with any form of dysgraphia or anything that would cause a reduced reading speed (such as dyslexia) will have a greatly reduced score on an IQ test, despite those issues not really impacting how intelligent they actually are.",
"> But you believe some drivel you read on the internet if it makes you feel better about yourself. \n\n*The irony!*",
"Why bother telling such an easily disprovable lie? Vocabulary is a core subset of the Verbal Comprehension section of the WAIS-IV. \n \n \n>The current version of the test, the WAIS-IV, which was released in 2008, is composed of 10 core subtests and five supplemental subtests, with the 10 core subtests comprising the Full Scale IQ. With the new WAIS-IV, the verbal/performance subscales from previous versions were removed and replaced by the index scores. The General Ability Index (GAI) was included, which consists of the Similarities, **Vocabulary** and Information subtests from the Verbal Comprehension Index and the Block Design, Matrix Reasoning and Visual Puzzles subtests from the Perceptual Reasoning Index. The GAI is clinically useful because it can be used as a measure of cognitive abilities that are less vulnerable to impairment. \n \n [Source](https://www.mentalhelp.net/psychological-testing/wechsler-adult-intelligence-scale)",
"Either you are lying or you were too lazy to do even the most basic fact checking on the claims you were making while trying to correct me.",
"I don't think so, because I'm not seeing a third option here. Unless of course I'm wrong, in which case all you've got to do is provide a source.",
"But that's not a third option? Nobody every said the section ONLY test vocab, but it is one of the things that it does test. Your claim, that IQ tests don't involve a vocabulary section, is categorically wrong.",
"Talk about non-sequitor.. Just answer the question.",
"hate to break it to you, but it has always been that way. Tech hasnt changed it one bit. Your social network (not the app shit) directly determines your opportunities, even when we were lighting streetlamps",
"Because you said: \n \n>It has a verbal section, but that section does not test vocabulary \n \nHowever, that section does test vocabulary, as I showed. So you are saying the third options is you lied? That was already one of the two options.",
"How is that a typo? \n \n>It has a verbal section, but that section does not test vocabulary \n \nIt's not like you just omitted a word. Even if you had typed something like \"but that section does not just test vocabulary\", it still wouldn't make sense given the context. It wouldn't be negating anything I said, it would still be agreeing with me. I don't see how this can be a typo. That's clearly not the case here, right? \n \nIt also wasn't the first time you said, as in a previous comment you said: \n \n>and they don't test vocabulary at all \n \nSeems like it wasn't a typo.",
"Joining MENSA means you failed the actual test. To pass the actual test, you take the free MENSA exam, pass it, and never pay the membership fee. If you're actually smart, you don't pay",
"Achievements that require intelligence have value. That's why if you we're showing anyone, besides mensa, that you have incredibly high IQ, nobody cares. No job would hire you, no school would accept you, no successful intelligent person with actual achievements would care at all. I would actually see it as a negative trait if you had high IQ and did little with it. Mensa is the badge that these people try to wear as that \"achievement\".\nI guess I have to mention that I'm not talking about every member, but I would wager quite a bit that it's a significant majority.\n\nAlso, there are plenty of people that are intelligent that score low IQ. But statistics and history only proves that so I'm sure you'd love to ignore it.",
"No one super intelligent is lame enough to do IQ tests.",
"I got into Mensa when I was 23 (sick brag I know lol) but my view of the situation now might be of interest to some...\n\nI was broke and drinking heavily at the time and had a very negative view of myself. I didnt realize it then but clearly I was trying to feel better about myself. Now, we all can agree that building your identity off of Mensa membership is corny af etc etc, however...getting in made me feel like I had some value at a time when I felt I had absolutely none. \n\nNow, I went on to do some bragging about it and shit which is obv the lamest shit ever, but I will say, somewhere in there was something very positive for me and idk, maybe its kinda something to let people just do cuz clearly they need it for some reason.",
"I downvoted your original comment, upvoted this one. That’s how I show respect.",
"I got it, breathed out of my nose a little, and gave it an upvote! Now it's only -7 votes, so good for you! :D",
"Just started it and it’s great. MENSA sounds more or less what I thought it was",
"Thanks for your perspective my friend.",
"I joined, paid the dues, went to one meeting and that was that. \n\nSo I had just got out of the Army in 1999 and was back living in my old hometown of Houston, Tx. I was looking to cultivate a new social life as a number of changes disrupted my old groups of associations (recently became ashiest, broke up with a long term girlfriend, and almost all of my pre-army friends had gone on to new cities, new interests, etc.) So I was joining a lot of different types of groups to find new friends and explore new interests. Took the Mensa test and joined for a discounted yearly fee during one of their membership drives. Went to a meeting. Lots of IT guys and lawyers looking to network. That and I met more Wiccans than I had ever encountered in one group setting. I tried being friendly and interested with some people, but I could not see this as a group that would enjoy associating with on a regular basis. Never went back. Mensa still sends me emails asking if I want to re-join."
] | 87 |
videos
|
Why Mensa is full of idiots
|
https://youtu.be/OKwTKeLCs7A
|
/r/videos/comments/qpkegh/klunking_before_mtbgary_fisher/
|
[
"Some BMX companies were doing 24\" bikes in the 80s. I guess that's where the tires came from.",
"Is the guy at 3:00 trying to zip up? May have caught some sack on the first try.",
"Interesting, didn't know that mtn biking was originally called Klunking.",
"Imagine what they would think if you showed up with one of the extreme downhill bikes that almost look like dirtbikes from today. Gary Fisher knew they would get better, but I think it would be hard to grasp just how far. Sweet video.",
"[ **Jump to 03:00 @** Klunking - Mountain Bike Racing - 1979 - Steve Fox](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKwTKeLCs7A&t=0h3m0s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Evening Magazine Remembered - San Francisco, Video Popularity: 99.01%, Video Length: [07:18])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@02:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKwTKeLCs7A&t=0h2m55s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"Haha uh ohhhh. Queue the pearl clutching 'helmet!!?!' reddit NPCs.",
"I remember the first MTBs that the neighborhood kids had was a Norco Bigfoot.",
"The word you are looking for is \"cue.\"",
"Haha right you are.",
"They should totally bring this back as a special event at races, no shocks and all.",
"Wow. How [far the sport has come](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxEsd3_jXmc) in such a short amount of time completely blows my mind.",
"Amen, amazing video. Fisher was a big part of that modernization he mentioned (https://www.thebikeshoppe.com/product-list/gary-fisher-pg146/). It was always a dream of mine to own one of his bikes. So cool to see a window into his mind way back then.",
"I had my full suspension Gary Fisher stolen at uni. and a police detective in a huge city actually recovered it..however when i got it back it was kinda janked up so i took it to a shop and they immediately noticed THE FRAME WAS BENT... no idea how it happened (maybe someone ran it over with a car)..\n\nThe shop called up their Gary Fisher connection and immediately said \"we're gonna send that person\\[me\\] a new frame right away\"\n\nWhat a fantastic brand amidst an endless sea of shitty products and services almost everywhere you turn",
"I mean, this hardly counts as a trail, but with no suspensions, no click pedals and no disk brakes it'd probably scary as hell.",
"Ok but that's not even a sport anymore. Anything Red Bull slaps its logo on instantly becomes a circus act.",
"Ah man. Still ride my rigid-frame Gary Fisher [from the early 90s] just about everyday. Truly is “man’s best friend” as printed on the back of the seat tube 🤘",
"Seems like someone has no clue what he's talking about.\n\nRed Bull supports and creates a wide variety of sports events including different mountain bike racing styles, skiing, snowboarding, motocross, climbing, and more. Most of these events attract the best athletes in the world and are highly competitive. Winning something like an RB Rampage is one of the biggest achievements in the sport. In the end, getting graded for technique and tricks is as much of a circus act as other sports like figure skating or gymnastics.\n\nIt has to be said though that Rampage is incredibly dangerous and severe injuries happen frequently. But the competitors choose and build their own tracks so it's up to them to judge the risks.",
"I love that trek, Marin, Gary Fisher and Specialized all came from the same small group of original pioneers.",
">Winning something like an RB Rampage is one of the biggest achievements in the ~~sport~~ *Circus*\n\nAgreed.",
"Had a Gary Fisher bike growing up, for marathon biking with my dad. Can tell you, it was the best made bike I’ve ever ridden, and I can 100% confirm the customer service",
"This is probably a better comparison: \n[https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-loic-bruni-breaks-down-his-winning-run-from-the-snowshoe-world-cup-dh-2021.html](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-loic-bruni-breaks-down-his-winning-run-from-the-snowshoe-world-cup-dh-2021.html) \n\n\nRed Bull sinks a TON of money into action sports like mountain biking, skiing and snowboarding. Calling it a circus demeans the time and effort the riders of various stripes put in. Many of these people are some of the most talented athletes alive today.",
"*One if the biggest achievements in freeriding\n\nMTB has multiple discipline with much more prestigious competitions.",
"circus: a traveling company of acrobats, clowns, and other entertainers which gives performances, typically in a large tent, in a series of different places.\n\nsport: an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.",
"Id count the other disciplines as different competitive sports. In the sense that slopestyle and enduro racing arent the same sport to me in a competitive setting. I agree that for people riding casually, it isn't as important to differentiate between different riding styles, and calling everything just mountain biking is fine.",
"The first bike I bought was a Marin Bear Valley in 1991. Loved that bike, had it for 15 years.",
"I have an '89 rigid mountainbike (first gen of mountainbikes really) and can confirm it is a lot of fun. Heavy but easy to work on",
"Marin is a magical place."
] | 27 |
videos
|
Klunking. Before MTB...Gary Fisher
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD9rFA6PO9k
|
/r/videos/comments/qpkfa2/on_the_first_anniversary_of_alex_trebeks_passing/
|
[
"inb4 Mayim Bialik released a video of her own talking about how Alex left her a box of vaccines and how it changed her mind about them for good and meant she is his rightful heir",
"TIL Alex Trebek died.",
"Where did you go for the last year?",
"Alex trebek isn't really on my radar tbh",
"TBF it has been a very densely packed year. Today start's the clock on the first full year since the stolen election lie and all its consequences.",
"I thought he beat the cancer or whatever it was?",
"It was more of a tie",
"They chose Jennings over LeVar Burton?",
"It's still guest hosting. But they choose the producer who turned out to have an... issue... and now they're back to guest hosting.\n\nAnd from what I've seen no one really thought LeVar was the right fit. Which is fine. He's fantastic, but hosting a shot is something different from his other work so it's not surprising if he's not the best choice.",
"I hope not. They should just find someone that is a no name and doesn't struggle reading answers. Let the show carry the ratings not the host.",
"Ken, I would say that wearing no cufflinks is your good luck charm, since you managed to win 74 games straight that way.",
"Don't tell him about Norm MacDonald",
"What happened to Norm? /s\nThey both will be missed.",
"I'm surprised Ken has never met Jean Trebek.",
"I love LeVar Burton, but honestly he was one of the weakest of all the guest hosts they had on last year.",
"Oh...stfu"
] | 17 |
videos
|
On the first anniversary of Alex Trebek's passing, Ken Jennings reflects on missing Alex and the special gift Alex's widow gave him before he started hosting "Jeopardy!"
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpkigm/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qpkigm/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"This is a bit tone deaf",
"Yikes",
"Wow he noticed the Ambulance and just continued???",
"I think a lot of people were trying to give Travis benefit of the doubt and assumed he didn’t know anything bad was going down, but this is pretty damning",
"Using the death of others to get internet likes just days after they've died... The world needs to end"
] | 5 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://youtu.be/Hi090Q75OQs
|
/r/videos/comments/qpkj08/paramedics_at_a_travis_scott_show/
|
[
"uhh.. damn",
"How did Travis not realize that making the ground shake was going to be counter productive from a logistical standpoint?",
"🔥💩",
"Anybody wondering why nobody’s asking questions about people being possibly injected with substances…?",
"nope.",
"You are wondering if people were on drugs at a concert? Noo. No way. That never happens..... \n\n\nRegardless these deaths and injuries were the result of a crowd surge. When hundred and thousands of people pushed forward to the stage. The strength of a crowd is very high. It caused people to die due to lack of oxygen. Then some fell to the ground and were stomped on. I can only assume some of them had broken ribs.",
"This is nothing new actually, been happening f9r decades, but this was so packed that it resulted in deaths, also nobody could leave to get water.",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y73-7lFBNE",
"https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/injection-spiking-attack-against-security-guard-at-travis-scott-s-astroworld-is-a-growing-assault-trend/ar-AAQ1LWD\n\nI hate having to do peoples research for them",
"https://youtu.be/EMNK4AatkXk"
] | 10 |
videos
|
paramedics at a Travis Scott show
|
https://youtu.be/OQNX98lJ_iI
|
/r/videos/comments/qpkk30/postcovid19_smell_taste_disruption_the_latest/
|
[
"I got Covid last November. I lost my sense of smell and taste for about a month. After getting it back, I've had those long term problems with sense and smell. \n\nFoods that I used to love that now taste bad to me: Peanut butter (and other nut butters), roasted meats (especially deli meats), and arugula. Toothpaste also tastes really bad like I can only taste the chemicals.\n\nIn regards to smell, I can't smell bleach anymore. Coffee also smells HORRIBLE. It smells like literal burning shit and makes me gag. A lot of foods have a weird 'musky' smell as well. \n\nReally hoping that peanut butter stops tasting terrible one day. :( I love it so much and miss it. Dreading Thanksgiving and seeing what other foods might taste terrible.",
"Hopefully things improve and you can again enjoy the foods you once loved!",
"My smell and taste haven't fully returned since having COVID-19 in September 2020. I'm *just* now starting to feel like my taste is almost fully back to normal but my smell is still around 75%. I actually started crying like a fool the day I tasted Coke Zero and it tasted like Coke Zero again. It used to be my favorite beverage, then after COVID-19 it just tasted like burned copper.",
"I currently have zero ability to smell due to recent covid infection. It may sound strange, but not being able to smell my daughter when I embrace her is seriously depressing to me.",
"Oh hey, I thought something looked familiar from the text in the thumbnail and sure enough it's Adam Ragusea.\n\nI used to watch his stuff pretty religiously, but after a while he ran out of interesting recipes IMO (as he ran out of his favorite recipes he has made/tuned over the years and has had to look for new ones - which is understandable but I don't have the time) and [his science creds were put under question](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdamRagusea/comments/pqu32y/im_not_one_for_drama_or_hating_on_people_for/) by having a sponsored video/infomercial about vitamins, which are kinda pseudosciency. Not that vitamins themselves are pseudoscience mind you, but that pushing vitamins on people who don't have deficiencies is.\n\nAnyway, this video itself is a very big topic of interest. I'm admittedly a bit skeptical about his ability to accurately review the literature given the above, but he does at least give specific paper citations which puts him head and shoulders above the average coverage.\n\nAnd the anosmia for covid seems common enough to me that I'm gonna get every covid booster shot recommended to me by the feds. I don't wanna be dealing with even a little bit of side effects 50 years from now, even if I'm otherwise fine from covid.",
"I got Covid in May of this year and lost my smell and taste for almost a month. My smell and taste have returned but apples and egg yolks taste really bad for me now. I used to love apples, but I can't finish an apple now due it tasting like wet cardboard.",
"no wonder that guy is buying kale his taste has been disrupted",
"Lost my taste and smell since covid in January. Still not right at all.. it's kind of like 40-50% there. Can only really smell things up close and when I taste it's like I get a hint of the flavour here and there. Did yours just come back suddenly or was it gradual? it's really hard to tell if it's improving or not..",
"Very gradual.",
"Also weird you mention Coke, that's one of the drinks I've noticed a really weird taste from. Most just taste sweet or whatever with no complexity to the flavour but Coke tastes weird.",
"Coke and Pepsi (especially Pepsi) both tasted like burned copper for months, but Dr Pepper and Sprite tasted the same. Drank a lot of Dr Pepper the last year! Mountain Dew had a slightly weird taste too."
] | 11 |
videos
|
Post-Covid19 smell & taste disruption — the latest research
|
https://youtu.be/RQL2ON4S9es
|
/r/videos/comments/qpkzo5/joshua_homme_queens_of_the_stone_age_stops_show/
|
[
"Just sayin', but this is *really* old news.",
"How dare you try and get rapey in front of Josh Homme and Jon Theodore!",
"Nah, fuck all this. Josh Homme is fucking asshole. [He's an abuser,](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/10/josh-homme-restraining-order-queens-of-the-stone-age-brody-dalle) [he randomly kicked a photographer at a show](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/josh-homme-truly-sorry-for-kicking-photographer-onstage-204961/), and then yelled and [harassed a fan using homophobic slurs at a show in 2008 after a shoe was thrown at him.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfZm32tpWY8) So don't. He's not a good guy. Stop trying to mine some karma off of this Astroworld incident.",
"Ha alright bub. I'm not saying he's a saint, it's just topical. I was there, this really happened, that's all. All 3 ppl who read this post can have their own opinions about it.",
"I was there too. No it didn't really happen."
] | 5 |
videos
|
Joshua Homme (Queens of the Stone Age) stops show to protect girl being sexually assaulted
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii01B3vp_dY
|
/r/videos/comments/qplsyi/in_light_of_recent_events_lets_remember_the_time/
|
[
"God I love dethklok.",
"First thing I thought of during the recent news was a scene where Dethklok is just starting a concert and their stage before the show is a gigantic cube covered in spikes. When the concert starts the cube falls open revealing the stage, killing hundreds in the process.",
"DETHKLOCK fucking rules.",
">killing hundreds in the process\n\nHamburger time",
"i never cared for the series but i love the album unironicly from time to time. such amazing riffs."
] | 5 |
videos
|
In light of recent events, let's remember the time that Dethklok summoned a troll at their concert
|
https://youtu.be/qrvSx3nlKLU
|
/r/videos/comments/qpm7xs/guy_casually_stealing_our_package_and_using_uhaul/
|
[
"Hopefully you got the tag on the uhaul so there's some way to track him.",
"wish you had taught this jerk a lesson cuz it looks like he does this kind of shit for a living - full bag and a u-haul with him? \n\nheres what i do to block there view: i have a ton of bags of dirt and bags of mulch on the front porch- stuff that just looks like normal bullshit lawn type stuff \n\nthe packages get dropped off behind the bags of mulch and dirt and nobody from the front lawn can see anything.",
"he is like foot taller than me so i didn't want to confront. first called u haul to report their truck is getting used for stealing stuff. provided them with number plate and everything but they kinda was unresponsive . they can immediately track them \n\nonly recourse I have is filing police report, but not really optimistic about it.\n\nfinding a hidden area for packages seems like a good idea. wonder I can buy UPS friendly locker where they can leave the package",
"they were not helpful . I provided them with number plate but they wasted my time by keep bouncing me to different numbers",
"Definitely file a police report if for no other reason than so there's a record of UHaul users being criminals.",
"good thing that security camera you bought prevented the thief from comitting crimes",
"> only recourse I have is filing police report, but not really optimistic about it.\n\nIt's unlikely anything will come of it, police rarely do much of anything on cases like this other than file the report, but it's a good idea to to do it regardless. Starts a paper trail, keeps their eyes open for him, and if he gets caught elsewhere, existing reports might be helpful in ensuring he's prosecuted.\n\nAlso, he may have been bigger than you, but it's still a good idea to yell and make noise and cause a scene. The last thing thieves want is to be *noticed*. There's always the chance he just ditches the bag as he flees.\n\nGood luck with this!",
"It's like they say, U-hauls are a gateway drug"
] | 9 |
videos
|
Guy casually stealing our package and using u-haul as gateway(not on video)
|
https://youtu.be/cZG3RCeUQqc
|
/r/videos/comments/qpmhqt/koreans_got_the_fried_chicken_game_on_lockdown/
|
[
"in b4 a bunch of shitheads start drama about washing the chicken the same way they always go \"trigger discipline\" on any gun video",
"I wish they would popularize a cayenne flavor like spicy southern style fried chicken. The Korean style crispy batter can't be beat, but I can only take the gochujang flavor for so long. That and a lot of the varieties are a little too sweet for me",
"How do they keep the fryers so clean day to day? The mess of all this gives me nightmares. I stopped frying stuff at home cause I got so tired of the kitchen getting caked in oil droplets everywhere.\n\nChicken looks delicious.",
"At 2:57 he closes the fridge door with his dirty ass chicken fingers, dumbass.",
"Agreed. There's a place by me that takes 20min to prepare after you've ordered every single time so its always fresh. The chicken is oh so tender and the batter is always perfect and crispy. I'm just tired of the sauces after a while.",
"I bet they clean them.",
"They seem to be marinated but then they wash it off?",
"If you're in or near NYC, https://bbqktownnyc.com/",
"Gotta say I much more prefer the American dredge style fried chicken to the batter dipped kind. It's good in it's own way but not my favorite.",
"Never go to a restaruant",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz1X0RP3Mfw",
"One of the franchises here only uses the oil to cook 60 batches of chicken a day and then cleans it.",
"Your point being?",
"I don't think the American dredge style holds up to the sauceification common to K[orean]FC. The double-fried rice/potato starch batter is pretty resilient and doesn't get soggy quickly. All this to say, they're both beautiful in their own way.",
"Clearly you didn't watch the video. Washing off the marinade doesn't affect the marinade that is soaked into the meat. That's where the flavor comes from.",
"Can you ask for it without the sauce or will they just not do it? Just plain fried chicken then use your own dipping sauces like a spicy ranch, vinegar based BBQ sauce, etc.?",
"I can't say I've ever seen a southern American style cayenne flavor, but there's an infinite amount of random chicken flavors when you're actually in Korea. Just in my local delivery range I have probably over 40 places that deliver fried chicken, so they need to do different stuff to stand out. One popular chain even has fried chicken sprinkled with cheeto dust. The places that have yangnyeom chicken with a really strong gochujang flavor are usually the cheaper/worse ones imo.",
"The crispiness of korean fried chicken can't be beat imo",
"lol I was just thinking about that place while watching this. It's so good...",
"The real KFC",
"Do you really want to know how to clean a commercial fryer?",
"In much of Asia, and from my experience especially in Korea, it's very common practice to wash meat before cooking it. People will give you various answers as to why they do it, usually appealing to tradition or the idea that washing helps remove toxins or impurities of some sort from the meat. It's an incredibly stupid idea and you should never do it, because all it actually does is spread bacteria all around your kitchen.",
"[Fried Chicken Game](https://youtu.be/q7uTnxYFDSw)? :S",
"why do they wash off the seasoning",
"I love the whole deep frying of a spatchcocked chicken. I wish I had a fryer big enough to do this!\n\nand those crispy nugs getting dropped into that wok of sauce made my nipples hard.",
"Looks delicious! 😊",
"I heard they buy new ones every day.",
"But even then that's before you marinate it, surely. You wouldn't also wash the marinade off before cooking.",
"I watched that video when it came out and did the rounds. Helps if you put your point, not just a link to a long video, which is demonstrably about marinades not being pointless.",
"Their fried chicken game is on lockdown? Any idea when they're going to open it back up?",
"Beep.",
"I'm honored.",
"FYI, if you think otherwise.... you have not had Korean Fried Chicken.\n\nI stopped eating meat a few years ago, but if I ever made my way back to Korea you best believe I will have some lol."
] | 33 |
videos
|
Koreans got the Fried Chicken game on lockdown.
|
https://youtu.be/UpG_Wqa19C0
|
/r/videos/comments/qpmp93/can_we_talk_about_chronicle_2012_again/
|
[
"Chronicle’s my favorite movie, full stop. There’s nothing like a good movie for the making of a villain, and this has gotta be one of them.",
"Now *that* is a very interesting opinion. I think it's a great movie, and I actually liked it a lot more watching it now compared to when it came out. It really fills a hole in the movie market that isn't as common to see today, and it's very well crafted. There are just little bits here and there that keep it from being a landmark movie for me, but I can definitely see how some people would really enjoy it.",
"I mean, if you really think about it, the psychological aspects are all there, the environs are a perfect storm for what unfolded in the movie."
] | 3 |
videos
|
Can we talk about Chronicle (2012) again?
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy2nTrjvG9Q
|
/r/videos/comments/qpn1bm/cute_bears_get_ready_for_winter_with_the_finnish/
|
[
"❤️",
"Aren't grizzly bears the \"no no\" type?",
"I would say all bears are the \"no no\" type, but the bears in the video have all been raised from a cub by the man in the video."
] | 3 |
videos
|
Cute bears get ready for winter with the Finnish bear man Sulo Karjalainen
|
https://youtu.be/twW0ZNUpQLs
|
/r/videos/comments/qpnbt1/think_this_might_be_the_most_chill_song_ive_ever/
|
[
"Yes, this was in fact, very chill.",
"Awesome thanks",
"Ya that’s pretty good, dude. \n\nWell done!",
"Turned out great man, got that Lo-fi feel to it.",
"listened to this chill song while i watched that russian bear guy video",
"Cool cool",
"cooler than a polar bear's toe nails... Oh hell, there he go again talking that shit",
"That was fantastic! Thanks for sharing, subbin!",
"Hey thanks dude",
"Beautiful. Ty for this, very much needed.",
"You're beautiful",
"This was SO dope. I nodded along the whole way through. Very groovy"
] | 12 |
videos
|
Think this might be the most chill song I've ever written.
|
https://youtu.be/wIDr2FSsi-g
|
/r/videos/comments/qpnchb/this_tandem_takeoff_from_londonheathrow_bound_for/
|
[
"Something something Paul Revere.",
"$RYCEY to the fucking moon",
"Pretty cool that ground control set that up.",
"Cool",
"Planes are neat.",
"Both runways would likely get out sync with each other if they were truly being as efficient as possible. Imagine if one runway has a delay for whatever reason, I doubt they'd hold runway two just so they can have them take off simultaneously. With a queue of planes, this would cause them to then remain pepetually out of sync. So I'd wager it was intentional or the first two planes of the day.",
"Wow I had no idea that there were still restrictions up until now",
"Yeah it was arranged as part of a publicity stunt, apparently two planes taking off at the same time means everything here is OK now.",
"Also at Heathrow they normally use 1 runway for arrivals and 1 for departures",
"Under normal conditions Heathrow will use one runway for takeoffs and the other one for landings.",
"It's one of the finest invention of mankind imho. They do emit quite a bit of CO2 sadly.",
"It's far from normal.\n\nOne runway is used for arrivals and one for departures, the runways as switched at 3pm each day for noise abatement reasons.\n\nHaving 2 aircraft take off simultaneously if highly unusual because of the unlikely but possible risks associated with problems during take off.\n\nMore info about Heathrow runway switching here:\n\n[https://www.heathrow.com/company/local-community/noise/operations/runway-alternation](https://www.heathrow.com/company/local-community/noise/operations/runway-alternation)",
"Do they fly all the way together, or is it like one of those awkward social situations where you say goodbye to someone and then keep walking in the same direction not knowing what to talk about?",
"So it was a race! I wonder who won?",
"Virgin landed into JFK 6 minutes before BA",
"Fortunately people are working on this problem.",
"Interesting thanks",
"Yes",
"Yeah but you need to factor in how much co2 they emit per passenger per kilometre\n\n>14 g of CO2 / passenger/km for the train\n\n>42 g CO2 / passenger/km for a small car\n\n>55 g of CO2 / passenger/km for an average car\n\n>68 g CO2 /passenger/km for a bus\n\n>72 g CO2 /passenger/km for a two-wheel motor\n\n>285 g CO2 /passenger/km for a plane",
"Only 10% of the world has ever flown on a plane. What percent of people have been in road traffic? 90%+?\n\nSeems like a huge footprint for a mode that not many people use relatively speaking.",
"At least some of those numbers are off: I found the source (an archived infographic from the European Environment Agency) and they consider cars with 4 passengers, and planes with just 88 passengers. \nA narrowbody plane has similar emissions per passenger km as an average European car*, around 90-120 g per passenger km depending on how new it is. I think even the 737-400 emitted less than 120g per passenger km.\n\n*that means having two occupants in a car causes fewer emissions per passenger km than a plane",
"There is no solution for emission free 737. And will not be a solution for the next 50 years.",
"Hydrogen propulsion systems for planes are being actively developed by Airbus with multiple engine manufacturers. They will be commonplace in the 2040s I must admit, because it's a huge thing and the aerospace industry need a lot of safety before rolling out something totally new, but the solution is 100% there.",
"Yeah I'm not sure what restrictions they are talking about. I flew from Europe to the US about a month ago. Also know several people who had transatlantic round trips in the past year or so.",
"*The race is on!* - Jezza"
] | 26 |
videos
|
This tandem takeoff from London-Heathrow bound for the United States signifying the return to transatlantic passenger service after U.S. travel restrictions were lifted!
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqBXBWeQaQ
|
/r/videos/comments/qppnn7/poor_brad/
|
[
"Try r/watchpeopledieinside",
"Try DMT it’ll open your mind’s eye",
"Biggest burn in jeopardy history, hands down.",
"Trebek’s love for these three was unmatched",
"Damn, that was a cold blooded murder on TV.",
"I felt bad for Brad during this tournament. He actually played rather well, overall, but he kept hitting the daily doubles and getting them wrong. \n\nThough I can't feel too bad. For a few days work he cleared $250,000, for coming in last place. That's a pretty good deal.\n\n(Holzhauer also got $250k for his second place finish. Jennings won $1m.)",
"Hello ambulance? Yes this is Brad please come immediately.",
"Even more than when Trebek called a girl a loser?",
"Yeah, I didn't really see that as a burn. I more saw it as him just being a dickhead. Let those nerds do what they like, at least they're not afraid to be themselves.\n\nBasically:\n\nContestant: \"This is what I like to do.\"\n\nTrebek: \"You and your friends are losers!\"",
"i mean he's gonna have to throw hands in the parking lot after that one. public humiliation on national tv like that? yea put em up.",
"Damn, that was a cold blooded murder on TV.",
"Wait what? Anyone got a link?",
"Try poppers it'll open your brown eye",
"Here you go: https://youtu.be/zcBc2XV1ijY",
"God, what a douche. Imagine trying out for jeopardy only to be bullied by Alex Trebek for being too nerdy. Hypocrisy is always a bad look. \n\nThanks for the link",
"Nah, they know each other well enough to know it was a joke.",
"If you haven’t watched the show much, I can see how he’d come off as a douche. I watched the show quite a bit and he does have a bit of an edge, but I’ve never gotten the impression that it’s mean-spirited, just a friendly ribbing.",
"Yeah I watch enough, he was a douche sometimes. And this is beyond friendly ribbing, and you can see it hurt the contestant.\n\nAnd to fuck up someone's confidence on TV is one thing, but in the middle of a competition? Fuck him. For real.\n\nKen killed it tonight. That's how you host. He brought out personality in the contestants and had them joking around. Build them up, don't beat them down.\n\nDon't even get me started on how perverted Alex used to be on Classic Concentration.\n\nFuck Trebek. I said it. Love me some Jeopardy, and respect what was built there. But I don't credit Alex with that. I always liked the show in *spite* of him.",
"Eh, ok. I still think he’s alright. Not a god, but not that bad of a guy either, all things considered.",
"Does anyone have a *good* example of nerdcore hip hop? I’m kinda curious",
"I sure hope you're ok with the world judging you on a single instance because I don't know of any other times he was this ruthless. Still, we all makes mistakes, even when we least want to.",
"One of the classic examples is MC Frontalot. I always enjoyed his song Final Boss, which is pretty nerdcore, but he's also done some good light satires of rap music, like Crime Spree and Braggadocio, of which I prefer the latter. (\"I'm seventy-seven feet tall, I've got eight balls...\" is a memorable line, it has to be said.)",
"I love how I proved I wasn't judging him off one instance and this is your response.\n\nNot surprising someone who lacks reading comprehension but still manages to come off condescending would idolize Trebek. You certainly emulate him.",
"This is douchey. It's normal for people to sing hymns to an invisible supernatural patriarch and use the beliefs to be assholes to people who don't agree with them but woman has a niche hobby and she's a loser.\n\nSmart people aren't close minded and Trebek clearly is not open minded.",
"I’m not really sure I understand the point you’re making. I feel like you’re complaining more about religion than you are about Alex Trebek with that comment.",
"Mykill Miers first album It's Been A Long Time Coming is great and has a ton of academic references but I guess it it's not really nerdcore, just good",
"I don't think James would have said that had his score been close to Ken's atm. Was a good one, for sure. But feels like self-soothing his own feelings of inadequacy.",
" Does MC Chris count? [Fett's Vette](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqiasBVGtX8) is legit. \n\n\nAnd honestly I would be hard pressed to call the great Deltron nerdcore hip hop, but the entire [3030 Album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9HQ0pbHcCw&) is linguistically masterful and pretty damn nerdy if you listen to it.",
"Dan Bull and Stupendium do video game raps which is kinda related",
"I'm so grateful that they did this. It was really fun to watch Alex joke with all of them, and their banter was just great. I pulled for James the whole way. And it was very obvious how much Alex enjoyed it as well.",
"How much after tax?",
"Hope James bought him a beer after.. witty comment, love it.",
"For those of you who are familiar with these players, was this a friendly ribbing or was this guy being a serious asshole?",
"Nice.",
"\"Yes 911 I'd like to report a murder.\"",
"That's freaky.. my name is also Brad and his handwriting looks *exactly* like mine.",
"Imagine being called a loser for doing something nerdy by the decades long host of a show catering to hard core nerds. Savage.",
"Friendly ribbing. These guys are three of the most prolific jeopardy champs ever.",
"How do you hunt for daily doubles? I thought it was completely random…",
"I like a lot of stuff by MC Frontalot. \n\n[Here's a song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUPstXCqyus) where he raps about how cryptography is all based on one-way math functions and how these algorithms inevitably become insecure as computing power increases exponentially over time.\n\n[Here's a song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_FJelIEQy0) where he raps from the perspective of a creationist zealot revealing their plan for undermining the teaching of science in schools.\n\n[Here's a song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMgsAD3D948) where he raps about a team of super heroes who can combine to transform into a giant robot arguing about which of them should form the head of the giant robot.\n\nThere's a lot more those are just a few of my favorites of his off the top of my head.",
"They are random but you know that they are not in the first row so you can skip that. People generally try for rows 3 and 4 since row 5 are the hardest questions. So 3 and 4 will get them some money to bet with while bopping around.",
"Dick move....FUNNY! Still a dick move.",
"Just friendly ribbing. They’re all pretty good friends off the set as well. Just a well timed joke",
"Oh come on, trebek was clearly making a joke. The dude hosted jeopardy, it’s not like he didn’t know he was a nerd.",
"Fortunately you’ve shown us all how not to be condescending.",
"Suck a dead man's dick harder.",
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum",
"你在一个旧的线程中为愚蠢的狗屎打架。你的生活必须按计划进行",
"Dude made a joke and you’re here berating him like he was pol pot. \n\nYou have no sense of humor?",
"[not quite](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/93e6zf/jeopardys_daily_double_heatmap_oc)\n\nBasically you’re bouncing categories between the high value clues. That’s the more “modern” approach to the game. Back before these big winners people picked a category and went easy to hard. \n\nThere’s a bunch of analysis and game theory behind it, but basically you’re taking them quick so they can’t be substantially game changing for your opponents, but if it takes a few clues to find it you’re banking high value clues so you have more to play with. It’s assuming you have a high level of knowledge and good buzzer fingers to defend your risky play. \n\nThe nerds went and took an old folk’s trivia show and minmaxed the shit out of it.",
"Found his account. Hey speaking of your hand writing how come you give yourself such a big \"D\"?",
"So nice I watched it twice.",
"If you get the opportunity to give yourself a big D you should always take that opportunity",
"MC PEE PANTS? It's for the shawtieeees",
"KEN is STILL the GOAT",
"calm down it's a joke"
] | 55 |
videos
|
Poor Brad.
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpptiw/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qpptiw/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"That was pretty good, I liked it. You got the style just right",
"Thanks, Joel makes it look easier than it is",
"nah he just puts more effort in than you did",
"It was just a tad too glitchy compared to Joel but it was good. A bit long too imo but it got a good chuckle outta me at the \"WOAH WOAH WOAH\" part. Good stuff champ.",
"Thanks, I plan on more videos not just in this style, but boy is it a learning process."
] | 5 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324873485834?mkevt=1&mkcid=16&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
|
/r/videos/comments/qpqhq0/is_this_a_good_set_to_get_for_my_vhs_needs/
|
[
"Fuck VHS/DVD combos.",
"You found some of Dad's 80's porn tapes?",
"mom’s!!!",
"[Its my sex box and her name is Sony](https://youtu.be/7ciVKIm7bcg)",
"I’m not familiar with that brand but as long as it does the job 💯",
"Thank you my friend, i’m not aware either tis’ why i ask! I might give it a GO",
"No. Look for Sorny or Magnetbox.",
"ok, thanks for the advice. my parents always had a Zenith been looking out for those too, comparable to sony and magnavox?",
"that's a good one. \n\nhttps://www.ebay.ca/itm/334204604161?hash=item4dd0258f01:g:bUEAAOSweXJgA0Q6"
] | 9 |
videos
|
Is this a good set to get for my VHS needs???
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNDat20sfHU
|
/r/videos/comments/qpqlbn/repairman_looking_for_a_leak_finds_out_its/
|
[
"Wow.",
"Finds a different kind of leak.",
"What the fuck is wrong with some people, it’s not some magic piss that’s come from the fairy’s clearly someone is pissing in your room you dumb bitch.",
"I would’ve like to have seen the conversation with the landlord.",
"She probably realized that and was embarrassed so she made up some bullshit.",
"As a landlord, shit like this is cost of business. But I probably wouldn't renew their lease, that's for sure. As they left, I might even keep their deposit.\n\nSome landlords would try to bill their tenant. Like come on, they're not paying for that, even though morally they should. Thinking a little more, I might drop a bill, but would do fuck all if it didn't get paid. Like pissing the tenant off more is just gonna guarantee I'm gonna stop getting any rent.\n\nI've found that to be an effective landlord, you need to just take the high road every time. When you seem to get taken advantage of, you just don't renew the lease, and do better vetting tenants next time. Usually washes out, now I only have long term tenants.",
"So someone saw the plastic and the little device on the floor and just said fuck it and pee’d all over it anyway? Lmfaoo wtf is going on that house?",
"Apparently from the comments it was an autistic kid peeing on the floors.",
"Mental illness. No one wants to talk about it in any meaningful way. \n\nNothing to do with this video, but almost all of those who are homeless have mental illness that are preventing them from getting out of being homeless. Those who are able to work with a sound mind that find themselves on the streets are not typically on the streets for very long. But laws are preventing giving people who are homeless the help they need, as you can't just force medical procedures onto people who don't want it.",
"Dumb bitch is still one of the funniest insults to me. \n\nIt's short, punchy, and fun to say loud and angry.\n\nStrong D and B sounds. \n\nIt's glorious."
] | 11 |
videos
|
Repairman looking for a leak. Finds out it's someone peeing on the floor.
|
https://youtu.be/989-7xsRLR4
|
/r/videos/comments/qpr389/vitas_the_7th_element/
|
[
"What I would give to trip balls at a Vitas concert",
"Trivia from /u/Labikero\n\n> I'm sure you know a song called 7th Element or Chumdrum Bedrum. In the end of this song Vitas raps in an unknown language. But a Polish music website EskaRock found out that the lyrics of Vitas' rap are actually the lyrics of the song called \"Dziewczyny\" (Girls) performed by very popular Polish artist Kazik. Vitas raps them in faster pace and not perfectly but you can clearly hear some typical Polish words like kurde mać czy wolnym krokiem\n\n\n> This is the song: https://youtu.be/7xpE62kDhN8 (from 1:38 you can hear the lyrics used in 7th Element)\n\n> Compare with live version of 7th Element: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JDw_jjycR6Y\n\n\n> And the source of my post: http://m.eskarock.pl/eska_rock_news/rosyjski_kosmita_rapuje_kazika_-_tajemnica_odkryta_po_15_latach/143098\n\n\n> Share this everywhere and spread the news about Vitas' rap!\n\nLyrics translated (The chorus and the refrain seem to be complete gibberish though):\n\n[Verse 1]\n\nI came to give this song... [x4]\n\n[Verse 2]\n\nI came to give this song\n\nFrom the world of dreams\n\nI came to give this song\n\nFrom crystal tears\n\nI came to give this song\n\nFor the sake of love\n\nI came to give this song\n\n[Outro] (Polish rap, repeats x4)\n\nIt happened; what happened was what was going to happen\n\nFinally in her apartment, fucking shit\n\nWhen she was slowly going to her apartment\n\nSome losers fucked me up under her block",
"lrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrrlr ah-ahah!",
"Dude has some serious range",
"Is that the Diva Plavalaguna?",
"This goes me mega anxiety",
"[Thanos: Blblblblblblbl ah ah ah..](https://youtu.be/sG6uekF1xpo?t=97)",
"I still remember the first time this was posted on /r/videos, instant classic.\n\n\"I was looking for Fifth Element videos and went 2 elements too far \"",
"You get me. \n\nI once sat in my car during a blizzard for 3 hours and smoked myself stupid while playing his discography.\n\nEdit: Moscow Nights fuckin ___**SLAPS**___",
"[Here's the OG brlrlbrlrl space visitor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohU26fbW6-s)",
"If you unironically like this, you might enjoy this too https://youtu.be/ZSenveV5QP4",
"Chandrum badrum chandrum chandrum badrum",
"Pretty decent lip-synching until the last round. Makes me wonder who really did the vocal.",
"There's a video of him rehearsing and it's not lip sync but instead pitch shifted. You can hear him at one or two octaves lower against the PA at that high pitch. Given that he has to sync up to the background music it would be simple enough to automate the timing. Though I guess it's possible that sometimes he's just lip syncing.",
"Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha bldldldldld ha ah!",
"I bet Vitas would stop a concert if he saw someone hurt.",
"Mcully caulkin is so talented man look at him",
"Oh holy shit I always wondered what the fuck inspired the Hot Chip guys to do this one video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaCZN2N6Q_I",
"Nothing puts me in an instantly better mood than Vitas and this song.",
"Super Green",
"This will never not be cool.",
"I wore this exact outfit for Halloween 6 or 7 years ago. I fuckin love Vitas. Absolute legend.",
"There is a theme in [Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade](https://youtu.be/SQNymNaTr-Y?list=LL&t=639), that is the basis for [Vitas' song](https://youtu.be/989-7xsRLR4?t=36). \n\n Some people don't think it is intentional since the second part of the phrase is not included. However, Vitas was born in the former Soviet republic, was in an art school from a young age, and Rimsky-Korsakov was a hugely influential Russian composer whos music was undoubtedly part of his musical education.",
"Stop the concert, dislocate and extend his mandibles, and consume them whole - to rapturous applause.",
"When my children ask me what it was like growing up at the turn of the millenium, I'll just put this on and walk away.",
"He has a naturally exceptional voice to begin with and the skills to make use of it as well. While he has used sound effects (pitch shift etc) to improve his singing and sang with playback live, his unassisted performance is also stellar. I also read that he could not maintain that level since his voice doesn't reach as high anymore due to aging.",
"Often they pre-record for live concerts.",
"That song is such a mood.",
"An absolute classic",
"Better version with complete intro: \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5-X_3_Kpww",
"Do you have the stone's?",
"Can you imagine once that person gets back up?\n\n\n\"Okay, okay. is that person okay? Alright. From the top, guys. Bleleeleleelelele\"",
"I know you’re joking but I hear Vitas is actually a pretty shitty person in real life",
"Kazik...a guy who 'destroyed' a radio station by getting #1 on their Top Songs list xD this always make me laugh",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYCHzMdpIQ is the awesome vaporwave version",
"I don't smoke that much sorry.",
"It's his vocal, but it's from when he was younger and I'm assuming post processed quite a bit. \n\nAnyone that can sing like this (even Mariah Carey) can only do it for a short period of time because it's incredibly difficult on your vocal chords.",
"[Reminds me of Deaner, hittin' the high notes on More Than a Feelin.](https://youtu.be/Nl1MYPNEMjQ?t=4365)",
"I love the subtitle of that video \"(russian blblblblbl)\" lol",
"Wow lol",
"Russia didn't get to experience the early 90s, so they crammed those lost years into the early 2000s.",
"Yeah, I still remember the first time I saw it, funniest shit ever.",
"Such an amazing video.",
"Vitas - Bitcoin bubble edition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTf5j9LDObk"
] | 44 |
videos
|
VITAS - THE 7TH ELEMENT
|
https://youtu.be/_gz9Vj8TMCc
|
/r/videos/comments/qprry7/you_eat_other_animals/
|
[
"Stu-pid.",
"Explain",
"Until we stop eating animals we will not begin our next phase of evolution.Humanity is in its toddler phase, thinking everything must stay the same and that change is terrible.So long as we eat animals, we stay animals.",
"Eating a living thing is the same plant or animal or fungus. Just because you find familiarity with one of those types of organisms doesn’t make it any better or worse.",
"That was fucking hilarious! Only I just now realize it was probably vegan propaganda.... and not supposed to be funny. aaaaaah I'll see myself out.",
"They are advanced enough to create faster-than-light travel but have no idea that animals eat other animals? Stupid",
"Not the same at all. Animals are capable of complex thought, emotions, and feeling pain.",
"When you typically pick a vegetable or mushroom the plant sings with joy and regrows more for you. \n\n\nWhen you kill an animal its just dead.",
"“Propaganda” aka the truth. It’s nobody’s fault if you’re not vegan, you probably ate and used animal products your whole life. We need everyone to pool together and stop doing it because we know that it is wrong and harmfully impacts everyone. (Animals, global warming, environmental factors, health care and costs, etc,)",
"So are plants. \n\nhttps://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/plants-have-feelings-too",
"I think animal products need better synthetic alternatives but you're NEVER getting everyone off meat.",
"They do not have a central nervous system and majority of farming is to feed livestock so either way going vegan cuts down on the pain to plants",
"That is an evolutionary adaptation with plants to spread their offspring, I would say that they wouldn’t enjoy you culling their progeny. I would doubt a fungus enjoys being killed. Just because they don’t react the same way you do doesn’t make it any different.",
"NEVER?",
"What animal products need better synthetic alternatives in your opinion because I think it’s pretty well covered",
"Humans are smart enough to figure out animal agriculture creates more emissions and is more harmful than the environment than all travel sectors and still don’t go vegan? Stupid",
"Leather and Jell-O",
"What is the problem with synthetic fabrics v leather? What integral part of society does jello serve besides the laughable recipes made in the 70s?",
"Seriously we can't get people to stop smoking, taking recreational drugs, or prostitution and we've been eating meat longer than any of those.",
"There's no suitable replacements for leather. And i just feel like we should be able to make jello without hooves.",
"Just because you don’t understand how their consciousness works doesn’t mean they don’t have any. Get off your shitty high horse. Killing living things is how we gain energy, animal, plant or fungus, it’s all the same. Self righteous vegans are fucking pathetic.",
"Most living things consume other living things to survive.",
"You really are delusional.",
"It’s not all the same. I’m on no high horse, I wasn’t vegan for over 30 years. I’m not putting anyone down. Chances are you’ve never considered this because it’s outside your comfort zone and it makes you feel bad but it’s never too late to stop using animal products.",
"What if your children’s life depended on not eating meat?",
"You'd think bipedal Aliens who look awfully like Humans would've understood basic biology and evolution.",
"We don’t need any of it but smoking and recreational drugs are far less harmful to our society than eating meat",
"Say what now?",
"In what application for leather? Industrial? I’m not arguing I just want to know. For jackets belts shoes and other clothing there are replacements for all.",
"We kill billions of animals yearly for no reason other than sensory satisfaction and it contributes greatly to global warming and many other large scale issues in our developed societies.",
"It’s the truth. FAR FAR LESS HARMFUL. Diet, healthcare, greenhouse gas emissions, communicable diseases, etc. etc. etc. below is a spreadsheet on a lot of topics relating to meat production \n\nhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Cm5yHp16zSTSFrQ3B_3_vIK0b5QlJ8jpyPVrPrCKS0/htmlview#",
"You don't ride a motorcycle do you. Nothing stops your ass from getting tore up more than leather. Sure you can get nylon or some other woven synthetic but you'll be getting skin grafts. Nothing is as strong , durable and flexible. Gotta have all 3. Apearences sure, you can get something that looks close but won't last your entire life.",
"Why would I do that? I use everything, if something is better than something else I use that. Closing off a part of this world because of a perception that one form of life is more important than another is ignorant, and very arrogant.",
"I can get behind this argument but this is a small sector of animal agriculture. Second hand clothing is available for things like this. Everyday millions of animals are killed and the resources used to breed, sustain, and transport them is killing all of us.",
"You have insulted me at every turn and cited one writer who is a freelancer and not a scientist. The data supports my argument. I understand you don’t want to look at the other side but continuing to use animals at the rate we are is killing our planet and species while abusing animals along the way.",
"The fruiting body only appears for a couple of days typically.\nThe fungus never really dies because it lives primarily beneath the soil.\nMushrooms are like .0000001% of the fungus",
"I don't need to read all that. My point wasn't that you may or may not have a point. My point was you're not gonna change people's opinion on eating meat. Its delicious ergo the people who like it won't listen.",
"Yeah, the University of Melbourne is a freelancer. Hahaha. Like I said I use the best of everything, I eat lots of meat, lots of plants, and especially lots of funguses. You are the one with the narrow viewpoint, who chooses which organisms have the right types of feelings, most likely because their face looks similar to yours.",
"If you stop making it all together the second hand market turns into a frenzy, people hoard it, prices skyrocket, it disappears all together and you're now left without any solutions or suitable replacements. Make a suitable replacement first then wean the consumer off . Making drastic changes without solutions causes anger, outrage, violence and crime.",
"You watched the video on something you had no idea what it was about. I went vegan after 30+ years of eating meat and now it’s great that I get a whole new world of cooking. Just because not everyone is going to go vegan instantly isn’t a reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. We need as humans to realize the path we are on with meat consumption isn’t sustainable",
"Really depends on the fungus, most fungi aren’t mushrooms.",
"It’s not going to stop altogether so that’s not a reality we need to game out. The meat industry aspect needs to change. That is what is at the root of this video and the survival of the human race",
"The author is a freelancer not a scientist. From her webpage: Alana Schetzer is a freelance media specialist who has worked for some of Australia's biggest and most prestigious publications.",
"More so here is a link to a sheet with many peer reviewed articles on topics pertaining to meat consumption:\n\nhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19Cm5yHp16zSTSFrQ3B_3_vIK0b5QlJ8jpyPVrPrCKS0/htmlview#",
"okay. I still cant survive by eating dirt and rocks. I need to eat something that was living or is still living to survive. It could be plants or animals, that is the beauty of being born an omnivore. Even better I have a mouth full of taste buds and lots of things taste great. Animals taste great and plants taste great. Some bugs taste great but still haven't found tasty rocks and dirt. \n\nI get the video is trying to convey that eating animals is taboo to these aliens and that they only eat plants so taking the men to their world would be taboo also. I did not get the message of the dangers of factory farming and environmental destruction but good to know you did.",
"She is listed as a member of the university in the article, people can have more than on job over the course of their life. The argument here is you not accepting the fact that all living things feel in one way or another, it’s no different killing one living thing than another. Quit trying to change the subject and create a new narrative, I could care less about your link, typical, can’t win an argument, change the subject to one you are more comfortable with.",
"I think the purpose of the video would be to put some things that we think are common in perspective. We raise, impregnate, separate, butcher these animals for what reason? What are the effects it has on our society?",
"Not changing any subject I addressed your argument. If plants feel pain going vegan is still better because most farmland is used to feed livestock and rainforests are cleared for livestock.",
"If killing one living thing or another doesn’t matter then why do we have murder charges and animal protection laws?",
"Ok, right…. What color is the sky in your world?",
"Stop changing the subject. I just addressed your argument and you still downvote me. I used to be the same way. I ate meat every meal every day. This is not your fault. We have changed and made it normal but the current conditions are destructive and grotesque. \n\nhttps://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko",
"My wife cooks lots of vegan i like it. And as far as sustainability neither is vegan. We already have soil depletion problems since it takes 10k years to make 1 inch of top soil not to mention the fungal and microbial ecosystems that need to be established for cultivative growth. The human population needs to be halted for sustainability. But that doesn't ever seen to come up.",
"CO2 emissions will kill us way before soil depletion but soil depletion is also perpetrated by rainforests and other wooded areas being cleared for agricultural farming which majority is cleared for livestock feed/farming.",
"Boy that’s a pretty large leap to make logically. Cruelty is always wrong in my book. Humans shouldn’t eat other humans because there are diseases involved with eating each other. Here’s one. \n\n\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)",
"Cognitive dissonance is strong in this thread\n\nhttps://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko",
"Cruelty is always wrong in your book then you should look up why there are ag gag laws. Diseases occur anytime a large amount of animals are in close quarters. Zootonic diseases are a large threat to human survival many of them coming from animal agriculture areas. Stop downvoting me",
"First off who said I eat meat at every meal? Way to wildly speculate. You don’t know anything about how I live. Secondly you are pretty arrogant, the point is and has been that all things feel, and we take their energy and convert it to ours, there isn’t anything wrong with that, go try and convince someone else to eat what you’d like them to.",
"Give me a reason not to. Again, wildly speculating that I don’t know what those things are. How long are those legs of your high horse? How long does it take you to get off of it.",
"I was trying to relate that even if you eat meat and only meat that is not your fault and you can change. I’m not commenting on you but most of our developed society. There are no personal attacks here except coming from you. I am not arrogant I have told my story and I know it may be hard for others. There is something wrong with eating meat plain and simple. It contributes to health, environmental and many other factors for our society.",
"No high horse if you are arguing like you have not seen data on something I am trying to provide it. Please stop with the name calling",
"Where do you think they're going to put all the suplimental farms to make up for the lack of most people diet?",
"I’ve given you multiple. You can downvote whatever you want but if we are having a discussion it’s insincere to name call and downvote with no backup",
"I hope we get to a point where that is our issue. We have identified a lot of the current problems. If animal consumption is reduced farmland for animal feed can be repurposed or turned back into forest or wild land",
"I calls them like I sees them. You might have not called names, but I can smell your arrogance a mile coming.",
"No arrogance here. That is called cognitive dissonance and guilt but I’m not trying to impose that on you. You can say whatever you think is right but the science and data supports my argument and if you value future generations I implore you to keep an open mind and find a way to use the links I’ve shared.",
"Potato potato…",
"There are actually a lot of thoughts behind why people have such a strong feeling against veganism as well. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200203-the-hidden-biases-that-drive-anti-vegan-hatred",
"Not really though I brought scientific articles and thoughts and you called me names",
"I can bring up lots of articles that don’t pertain to the argument like you’ve done. You are having a one sided argument, quite arrogantly. Plants and fungi have feelings that’s my point, you keep on trying to railroad it in another direction, I could care less. You can’t argue your way into a different discussion, that’s ridiculous. So yeah keep bringing it up I’ll keep making fun of your blindly one track minded rhetorics…",
"Not the case at all. What is your concern with plants feelings that usurp the current issues with animal agriculture. If they outweigh the current issues then they have merit",
"It's a nice thought but in a world where masks and weather or not the earth is round is divisive i don't have hope for actual viable solutions to be enacted. So most you can do is change what you can in your own life and hope others take notice. Good luck to you. I'll tell you what, I'll start supplementing vegan options more and who knows. Best i can do.",
"Thanks for the respectful answer. It is a lot more than some will extend",
"I’m not having that argument, I made a point and you commented on it. And ever since you’ve been trying to steer that argument to a stupid vegan commentary. Who cares? Eating things gives you energy, plant, animal, fungus, it’s all the same. There are benefits and drawbacks to all of them, that’s never been my point, and I could care less if it’s yours.",
"I’ve been giving clear arguments and you have been insulting or changing the argument so if anything I hope you take a look at dominion on YouTube and see the horrors that animal agriculture can cause. It’s not all the same. It’s terrifying what is going on and that is merely what is on the surface. https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko",
"We aren’t having an argument, I stated things and you have been trying to argue a different point with me. I couldn’t care less. Keep on going though. It’s getting fairly funny at this point.",
"Arguments are points in a discussion. I understand what you are doing but when you are in a different mindset take a second to look at my points",
"Shoehorning in a point that nobody asked for is never going to work. Please just understand that all living things have feelings regardless if you can understand them or not. Killing a thing and consuming it will allow you to live longer and them to not, give thanks for their sacrifice and keep on trucking. That’s how it’s worked for billions of years. It will happen for billions of years after us. Making distinctions between what’s right to eat and what’s wrong to eat doesn’t matter. If the world gets too hot for people to live then we will die. The world will kill off lots of things, some will survive, the world will correct, evolution will happen. Things will continue to happen, with or without us.",
"Animal agriculture on the scale we have now has not existed for long. It is inhumane and is destroying the planet",
"And after we are gone none of it will matter…",
" The video comes off more as these alien women are overly picky about the eating habits of the men they mate with. The Klingon reference at the end proves they are both out to get laid but have no clue about any of the men in their area.",
"but it matters now. tens of billions of farm animals are thrown in gas chambers to suffocate annually. their throats are slit and are shot in the head for the pleasure of our taste buds.\n\ndon't try to argue that eating plants is the same. you wouldn't rather stomp a dog than a pile of flowers. you wouldn't rather burn a cat alive than a pile of leaves.",
"Are you making a point? All things have the same living energy. One thing isn’t better than another, just different. Your nonsense about stomping cats and burning leaves makes no sense. I would rather do neither. I love a delicious steak the same way I love a butternut squash. All things can be treated with dignity, and processed humanly. But in the end we as a planet don’t really matter, we will be gone in a blink.",
"my point is that you don't actually think that plants are equal to animals. you're just saying that to prove your point.\n\nand even if that happened to be the case, then it purely comes down to numbers. if a blade of grass is of the same importance to you as a dog, then it makes no sense to feed up livestock on millions and millions of plants, and then kill the animal to eat. this would result in far more plant casualties, which you'd surely want to avoid as a dedicated plants-rights activist. better to minimize those plant casualties by just feeding yourself on them, rather than feeding many times more to animals, right? i'd suggest you to go vegan since it's an important issue for you!",
"I’d appreciate you not telling me what I think. I think that everything has feelings, whether we understand it or not. We consume things and live from their living energy. Whether it’s a plant or animal or fungus, that part doesn’t matter. I think that when people start making delineation between whats ok to eat and what isn’t there is a definite problem. I think the way vegans think is disgusting. They are doing the same things as an omnivore like myself. But they pretend its better, they are still taking another organisms energy and making it their own. It’s all the same plant, animal, fungus.",
"did you read my comment? i said that even if you think that plant's life is equal to animal's, the best choice would be to go vegan. due to feed conversion ratios far less plants would die that way.",
"Your point has no merit in my life. Organisms consume other organisms, that’s how it is. It doesn’t matter to me if it is an animal or a plant or a fungus, I will gladly eat them all. The point is that a vegan draws a line that has no purpose, the plants they eat have a consciousness just like a lamb, or a mushroom. Makes no difference, we all take energy from other life forms. Taking a stand on what types of things you consume is ridiculous. It’s all the same thing. Taking from something to live longer yourself.",
"I admire your dedication! Patience of a saint with this guy haha",
"what do you mean it has no purpose? you don't think suffering should be reduced as much as possible?",
"Animals that eat other animals cause lots of suffering. What makes a human that consumes another animal any different? Other than the fact that the animals culled by humans go through a lot less stress and torture than a predator chasing and knocking them down with claws or talons and biting the animal to death. Or in a plants case is it better to have most of your body chewed causing a slow death for days or weeks, or a swift death by a single slice or uprooting? Grow up, there is a reason it’s called a humane death…",
"They’re right though.\n\nThe concepts of complex thought, emotions and feeling pain are very human ideas.\n\nI’m not saying it’s ok to inflict pain on other animals.\nBut what’s to say the ecosystem of plant life doesn’t collectively have a higher level of consciousness than we do. It may just operate on different time scale to us. When we pluck kale leaves we might be the equivalent of a parasite, burrowing into a child’s eye.",
"They had a philosophical thought but there is nothing scientifically correct there. Killing a complex organism is not the same as killing an organism that cannot have complex thoughts or emotions.",
"\"Animals that eat other animals cause lots of suffering. What makes a human that consumes another animal any different?\"\n\nwe don't need to eat animals in order to survive. besides, animals are not moral agents so it shouldn't matter what they do to eachother.\n\n\"Other than the fact that the animals culled by humans go through a lot less stress and torture than a predator chasing and knocking them down with claws or talons and biting the animal to death.\"\n\nkilling farm animals doesn't help any wild animals so i don't see what your point is\n\n\"Or in a plants case is it better to have most of your body chewed causing a slow death for days or weeks, or a swift death by a single slice or uprooting? Grow up, there is a reason it’s called a humane death…\"\n\nyou can't kill humanely someone who does not want to die. end of story",
"Individually we are intelligent, calculated and logical beings. Collectively we're fucking infants.",
"🙄",
"Yeah but I actively want to eat animals, our bodies process meat more efficiently than plant matter. You might feel that way but you are part of a super minority of people.",
"can you provide a source for that claim? what i know is that our digestine systems and teeth are similar to other herbivores.\n\nif that happened to be the case, however, that still doesn't excuse killing and eating animals. even if it might be inconvenient for us to eat plants (which it isn't), it's much more inconvenient for them to get their throats slit.",
"https://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/",
"well ok then, that might be the case. still doesn't excuse us eating animal products anymore since we can eat plants and get along well",
"You can do what you want. I’ll do as I please. That’s how it works, go look down your nose somewhere else, I could care less.",
"i love how rapists could say the same about their atrocities",
"You are a feeble minded simpleton. I’ll name the next steak I eat in your honor…",
"You are a feeble minded simpleton. I’ll name the next steak I eat in your honor…",
"and i'll turn a dog vegan in your honor",
"Why would you torture an animal?\n\n\nhttps://youtu.be/JQXYL9OUaKs",
"\"Why would you torture an animal?\" -someone who is in favour of putting them in small cages before throwing them in gas chamber\n\nah, the amount of times i've been linked that video. i'm not yet sure what anyone is trying to \"prove\" with that. if you give toddler a carrot and a lollipop, guess which one he would rather eat? now, does it mean that it's healthier for him?",
"You shouldn’t be allowed to own a dog if you are going to mistreat them purely for your own self delusions. What you are talking about is animal cruelty and that is truly disgusting. \n\nhttps://www.thelabradorsite.com/what-do-wolves-eat/",
"\"Does a vegan diet provide enough nutrition?\n\nYes, if you use a commercially prepared ‘complete’ dog food. All commercial dog foods described as ‘complete’ are bound under law to provide all of a pet’s dietary requirements.\"\n\nhttps://firstvet.com/uk/articles/can-my-dog-be-vegan",
"If you have to use arguments about a “commercially prepared “complete” dog food” then you aren’t feeding your companion what they deserve or crave, honestly what they require. You are disgusting, make choices for you that’s one thing, depriving an animal of the diet they are made for is just torture. You shouldn’t be allowed to care for a dog.",
"And if your only defense to feeding your dog a vegan diet. Is a link that says it’s technically ok, then you are so fucking wrong it isn’t even funny. It’s technically ok? What the fuck is actually wrong with you? I’m literally disgusted right now.",
"\"oh my god... this guy... feeds his dog normal store-bought food??!! he's such an animal abuser!!! i know much more about animals than veterinarians do!!\"",
"“Commercially complete dog food” according to you is the level of nutrition that you “vegan” dog eats. \n\nhttps://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/complete-and-balanced-pet-food\n\nMaybe you should eat the equivalent. Fucking disgusting, you are abusing the animals that you are supposed to be fighting for. Fucking hypocrite.",
"\"...dogs can do quite well on a carefully designed vegan diet that meets all of their nutritional needs. As a veterinary nutritionist, I use meat-free diets quite a bit to help manage various health concerns. The challenge is that designing these diets is not the easiest thing to do.\"\n\nhttps://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/",
"yes? why wouldn't it be? you haven't stated why it's inherently bad",
"Hahaha, and you are a liar.",
"i guessed that you don't actually have an argument",
"McDonald’s meets FDA requirements, that’s above the minimum equivalent, you are basing the diet you feed a dog on less then the equivalent of fast food.",
"Then you would be wrong, animal abuser.",
"i just showed you an article about a veterinarian saying that dogs can do well on a vegan diet. i don't know what else do you need.\n\ni wish you would be this concerned about other animals' wellbeing",
"ok carnist",
"Ok wacko.",
"You showed me a link that said it’s possible to feed you me dog to the lowest level of nutrition allowed through vegan food, that is absolutely not the same thing. I really hope you don’t actually own a dog.",
"still not sure why you care about dogs and not pigs, cows or chickens but go on with your speciesism i guess",
"I definitely care for all of those animals. You don’t know a thing about me or how I buy my meat, slaughter it and enjoy it. I do know they aren’t abused like a dog you would own would be.",
"not planning to get a dog if i can't make him vegan. there's no point to kill multiple animals to help one to survive.\n\nif you care about animals, why do you pay for them to be killed?",
"Because I love the taste.",
"you can't say you care about animals while considering a few-minute taste pleasure to be more important than their lives",
"If you are to ignorant to understand that there are humane ways to kill an animal, then obviously you aren’t worth my time trying to explain. Their lives aren’t more important than the plants you eat, nor is it different."
] | 128 |
videos
|
You Eat Other Animals?
|
https://youtu.be/vd38lhfJQwk
|
/r/videos/comments/qprtah/the_best_jam_ive_ever_witnessed/
|
[
"That was fantastic. Wow.",
"Love this stuff. I like informal settings like this where real world class players aren’t technically “performing”…just having a jam session. Great post u/SuckOnMyCybercock!",
"Thank you!",
"Tommy Emmanuel on the right. Legend.",
"I played piano for years and haven't really played since picking up the guitar. It's an amazing instrument.",
"it's the best feeling ever when you finish a jam and everyone starts laughing. nailed it",
"They're all very good, but what sets Tommy Emmanuel apart here isn't just technique but phrasing. Listen to how much silence, how much space, he leaves between his lines, compared to the other players. It's all so controlled, thoughtful, unhurried - the mark of a master.",
"When the doctor prohibited you all the good shit and you put all into guitar playing and wearing boomer shirts.",
"downvoted, get a real username",
"Thanks for sharing! If you like this, you might want to check out \"The Pizza Tapes\" with Jerry Garcia, David Grisman, and Tony Rice - legends!"
] | 10 |
videos
|
The best jam I’ve ever witnessed
|
https://youtu.be/w7jpZX32Hl8
|
/r/videos/comments/qpt0dl/i_love_finding_nature_channels/
|
[
"Try cruising the cut on Amazon. The first two or three episodes show the preparedness. After that it is incredibly peaceful and interesting.",
"Hey, I appreciate it. I will go check that out",
"good",
"what is?"
] | 3 |
videos
|
I love Finding Nature channels
|
https://youtu.be/m4m1eIxfB0k?t=27
|
/r/videos/comments/qptct4/linkin_parks_response_to_when_a_fan_falls/
|
[
"Good for them.",
"Best one I've seen yet. Love that approach.",
"Chester, you are missed.",
"Legends! RIP Chester.",
"Come for the good deed, stay because that song kicks ass.",
"It is not that hard to check the audience & make sure they're looking out for each other"
] | 6 |
videos
|
Linkin Park's response to when a fan falls
|
https://twitter.com/i/status/1457774701673996298
|
/r/videos/comments/qptf5i/potential_deciding_moment_in_rittenhouse_trial/
|
[
"Trial should be over",
"It might just be once the state rests its case. I can’t imagine the defense won’t motion for a directed verdict.",
"Yes I have been watching this shit show, they are all idiots.",
"This is why we have a court system. And not trial by woke mob.",
"does this justify him carrying an AR15 miles from his home where he'd know he could get into a situation to use it? or shooting the other people he shot?",
"This was also someone chasing him _after_ he had already shot others. It’s like a terrorist claiming he shouldn’t be charged with attempted murder cause someone pulled a gun on him after the attack. One part of a much larger case and not nearly the slam dunk legally these people think it is.",
"For the charge(s) related to shooting this witness, probably yes.\n\nBut he shot two other people, he'll need to make a successful self defense argument for those as well.",
"He was not old enough to carry a gun. Just him leaving the house with the rifle should be attempted murder. \n\nA charge for every peice of ammunition.",
"His attackers travelled further than he did. Carrying a gun across state lines isn't a crime, or shouldn't be.",
"It depends on discovery also. The prosecution had a witness who gave damning testimony on behalf of the defendant. If the prosecution knew this and didn’t disclose the information and hoped the defense attorney would not ask the right question, there could* be prosecutorial misconduct and the case gets tossed. We will see what happens",
"Well it is a crime if you’re a minor, so there’s that. They testified in court however that he didn’t cross state lines with the gun, he conveniently met a friend on the other side of the border and took possession then. But you still can’t legally carry a gun in public as a minor although his lawyer made an… [*interesting* argument](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1280950). The fact that he and his attorney were willing argue WI hunting laws allowed him to carry makes me think he wasn’t just there to protect a business he had no connection to…",
"Fine. Maybe he's guilty on that charge. I don't really care. How do you charge someone as an adult (for murder) and then put a charge for a minor having a gun in the same hearing? That seems hypocritical to me. Either way, I don't really care if someone under 18 has a gun.",
"I’d say a significant portion of people leading up to the trial were contributing to the idiocy. \n\nThe prosecution has to be sick, they had most the media on their side, he was cast as an alt-right meanie, and he was cast as an opponent to civil rights. All the prosecutors needed was their witness to lie. Oops!\n\nI like how this came after the line “it’s just not in me to attack someone or shoot someone like that”",
"This is an incredibly important point that everyone here is missing.",
"IDK. Seems like from all the testimony from other witnesses the first guy killed was belligerent and starting multiple fights and fires over two days. Seems like he's the terrorist.",
"Maybe the real issue is the American gun obsession. Power fantasy fucktards as far as the eye can see, all ready to \"exercise their rights\" by playing fatal games.",
"Dude who lost his bicep was a felon with an expired cc permit.. what was he there to do?\n\nJust sayin..",
"And a pedophile *",
"Wisconsin does not prohibit the open carry of rifles and shotguns by minors (under 18.). Check Wisconsin statute 29.539.",
"Apparently no charges for the felon with the gun. Weird.",
"Illinois does.",
"Please tell me where the trial is taking place?"
] | 23 |
videos
|
Potential Deciding Moment in Rittenhouse Trial
|
https://youtu.be/cqayRIIhzLM
|
/r/videos/comments/qptx3o/paul_rudds_amazing_phone_camera_talent/
|
[
"Graham Norton feels like he'd make that face if got asked for more water at a restaurant",
"I just love Paul.",
"I always love how Graham Norton's format creates these delightfully awkward interactions between public figures who never would have interacted otherwise.",
"Holy crap Ron Howard looks 90",
"Damn, that was great. Lmao",
"Computer load up celery man please.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maAFcEU6atk",
"I'll never not watch this when it comes up",
"That is an interesting talent",
"Now Tayne I can get into!",
"That’s from High Maintenance",
"I’ve been hanging around Reddit for nearly 9 years. How TF have I never seen this before?",
"It’s so awesome",
"Mirror https://youtu.be/tv1urfDXs-o\n\nOr \n\nhttps://youtu.be/71V-jQVbsh8",
"Topical. -_-",
"I expected nothing less",
"That was not Ron Howard. No way.\n\nEdit: Jesus Christ, I thought that was a bald Matthew Lesko, the FREE MONEY! telemarketer guy with the question mark suit.",
"It was on the show very recently",
"You may have partial face blindness.",
"[Sarah Silverman's trick is better.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gfg4OMrqCU)",
"I don’t get it.",
"Well, no. Maybe IRL.\n\nThey blurred.. a mouth.",
"[The Spanish Infanta approves](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UveSVcz18R0&t=3m13s)",
"He’s not wearing his trademark hat that hides his baldness, so that right there will make him look older.",
"Sarah Silverman got a pretty cool phone trick too -\n\nhttps://youtu.be/8Gfg4OMrqCU",
"Can you turn up the 3d3d3d3?",
";)",
"Is there anyway to generate a nude Tayne?",
"\"He doesnt\"",
"ex stepbro what are you doing?",
"Why is he saving the good stuff for Britain.",
"It's a room full of actors with 1 director, they could interact at practically any time.",
"Literally the definition of acting…",
"NUDE. TAYNE.",
"He does the same trick on Hot Ones but with an additional alternative view. https://youtu.be/gWVHses2GCY @ 16:30 minutes in.",
"https://celeryman.alexmeub.com/",
"??? Celeryman is from an episode of Tim and Eric from 2010.",
"That is a heavy freaking series of guests! I'm embarrassed to say that I don't recognize the woman but Rudd, Howard, and Fry? Wowzers!",
"He did this on Hot Ones too, which is American made",
"More like Paul Dudd",
"Just died laughing. Thanks for sharing",
"Even the linked youtube is from 2013",
"Damn! I just realised that it’s a pun on entertain!",
"u had me at sophisticated",
"Paul Rudd chimichunga :D",
"Wow. There should be an award for that. This is linked fairly often. Basically anytime Paul Rudd comes up. So... Often.\n\nShould we link you Jolly Rancher too while we're at it? Descartes' Whores? This guy's dead wife?\n\nHow much have you missed?\n\nAlso, now I'm wondering what *I've* missed...",
"Warning: I am not suitable for work.",
"This is how I imagine God Almighty working to create life in the universe.",
"I don't know her name but she played Prof Sprout in Harry Potter",
"That's what happens when you don't kick up the 4d3d3d3.",
"I'm really curious how that conversation went discussing if they should censor or not.",
"Now that I think about it, they may have incorrectly thought the comment they replied to was referring to the Graham Norton clip not Celeryman.",
"why the fuck is this censored :(",
"Now that you point it out, I think you might be right.\n\nWell then. How do you feel about pocket sand?",
"Like Rudd admitted, he has really ass-like fingers. I tried it and my finger-butt looks lopsided.",
"I love it. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.",
"I haven't seen this clip before, and I also have never seen anyone try this in person, which is a shame.",
"Ron Howard had 3 phases with no smooth transition between them: Opie, Richie Cunningham, and then old Hollywood director.",
"It's not on Graham Norton.",
"Oh man. He plays it so casual but at the end you can tell he's extremely pleased with himself. I love it.",
"I just want you all to know that if you have a Google Home set up you can ask it to “Load up celery man” and it will respond appropriately. \nHave a good day",
"That was solely reserved for Conan.",
"Yes! Fingerbutt.",
"This is my first time seeing this.\n\n\n\n\n\nThank you",
"This is called Furtling. Look it up. Fun Victorian pastime.",
"Miriam Margolyes - been in hundreds of TV, film and stage productions.",
"There’s also this reddit story about a box…",
"Also, if you have a LG TV, and ask it to load celery man, it will come directly to this video",
"Dont forget the knife.",
"My friends and I would do the close-up picture of the index finger in the crook of your elbow. Always looked like a D in a hairy V.\n\nWe'd do hundreds of these drunken pics a night and laugh hysterically",
"And is hilariously batshit crazy, such a funny woman.",
"Richter with the killer reply.",
"Jeez, I thought that was John Malkovich",
"is that the guy with the laborghini in his garage?",
"blurring it out is only going to make more kids google what is actually supposed to be there. It's so sad we have to shame the female and male anatomy. We might as well be in Afghanistan. But I guess if we didn't shame the female and male anatomy, then Silverman's joke wouldn't be funny.",
"I'm in absolute love with Sarah Silverman. She's so pretty in the most real way possible.",
"Is that iPhone from 1975?",
"Little disappointed. All she said was \"I wish I could print out an Oyster smiling\". Was hoping for interactive Paul Rudd's computer. Oh well.",
"I mean he is 70",
"r/tayne",
"I would plaster this all over my social media with caption: the time I met paul rudd.",
"The mom and arm story",
"OK I was going crazy because I knew I've seen him do this before.",
"And poor Colby..",
"Paul Rudd is a treasure",
"considering this is reddit...do I even *want* to know?",
"> Descartes' Whores?\n\n?\n\nI must have missed that one",
"If you want the story it's [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/zw3j9/i_am_the_fatherredditor_who_lost_his_family_after/)",
"[Possibly one of the all time greatest puns in Reddit history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/cfbkx/im_85_certain_that_there_is_an_adult_actress_in/c0s63rm/)"
] | 90 |
videos
|
Paul Rudd's amazing phone camera talent.
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgALXCAxTSY&ab_channel=WilsonCleveland
|
/r/videos/comments/qpu0im/a_nightmare_on_elm_street_fan_concept_trailer_its/
|
[
"This looks so insanely good. What a tease haha",
"I want it. I want it. I fucking want this!!!",
"As a concept Freddy totally fucked me up as a kid - he comes in your dreams? Like not cool! The movies got more and more silly and is totally ripe for a proper reboot",
"I don’t get it? it mixes up amateur fan footages with actual Hollywood movie scenes from the Freddie saga (and maybe other films, I am not very familiar). All the good shots are taken from these other films. I don’t understand what is the “concept” this trailer meant to propose?",
"cause generic trailer format = so good no one will make it",
"Unoriginal film school editing project.",
"... with bad sound editing."
] | 7 |
videos
|
"A Nightmare on Elm Street" fan concept trailer, it's good so that means a studio will never make it.
|
https://vimeo.com/4073140
|
/r/videos/comments/qpup4s/the_pentagon_flyover_how_they_pulled_it_off/
|
[
"**Submission Statement:** In this presentation, Citizen Investigation Team reveals independently obtained smoking gun evidence further exposing how the true flight path of the Pentagon attack jet on 9/11 is irreconcilable with all official reports and data. They demonstrate how the plane flew over Washington DC skies and came from the east side of the Potomac River. They explain how the C-130 and white E4B or \"mystery plane\" were used as cover for the decoy jet that was meant to fool people into believing it hit the building. They expose the methodology behind the operation and demonstrate how they were able to successfully pull off this military deception in broad daylight.",
"Fuck off with this conspiracy shit.",
"9/11 was a false flag. Conspiracies are everywhere and are an integral part of the U.S. political process in particular, if you aren't blind to history you'd know this."
] | 5 |
videos
|
The Pentagon Flyover - How They Pulled It Off
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQgegKPAUI
|
/r/videos/comments/qpv7yl/doug_bradley_aka_pinhead_from_hellraiser_has_a/
|
[
"Well that was lovely.",
"Thanks for sharing OP!\n\nI'm hoping the new Hellraiser movie is good what with Barker having regained rights to it and being part of it. Bradly was fantastic as Pinhead, but not gonna lie, I'm excited for Jamie Clayton!\n\n\\*I may be just a *tad* biased in hope of seeing her bald\\*",
"Nice cadence to his voice, good selection of poems",
"Not gonna lie here, but I think this is what the world needs nowadays. As a culture, I feel we've moved so far away from the classics.\n\nThis narration really hits the spot.",
"Never have I ever sought more poems based off one solitary well done reading. Thank you!",
"Very interesting person and channel. Thanks OP!",
"He's also done work for British extreme metal band Cradle Of Filth, doing spoken word intros to songs.",
"Your suffering will be legendary…even in Hell!",
"I'm usually not one for poetry, but *The Listeners* has always been one of my favorite pieces of literature. It was used as the basis for a 1972 scifi book by James Gunn (not that one) in the context of Earth and a distant planet sending messages to each other.",
"So, they're (re)making a new 'hellraiser' film,... and I have no idea how they're going to pull off the 'pinhead' character without the tonal eloquence of Doug Bradley. It really makes the character....",
"Patrick Stewart used to do a sonnet nearly every day on Twitter last year. 154 total. \n\nListening to that gave me the same feeling as this video.",
"Nice thanks for the tip! I knew he has performed narrations on several songs by Cradle of Filth since the Midian album in the past.",
"Of course you can read 'The Listeners' as a ghost story but I've always thought of those phantoms as something more like memories or abstractions relating to the incident the whole poem is about. \n\nMaybe they're the personification of the Traveller's need for there to be someone that he fulfilled his promise to. Certainly the listeners seem to be part of a universe of absence. This is shown by their awareness, in that powerful penultimate line, of 'how the silence surged softly backward.' To them the deep absence that is silence is a palpable force capable of being experienced as a surge. God I love that line.",
"I need that in my life right now.",
"Go on [his Twitter](https://twitter.com/SirPatStew?t=Tz4RjMhqEeSgRk3wgHJx0g&s=09) and look at his media section. The last one was on October 3rd 2020."
] | 15 |
videos
|
Doug Bradley, a.k.a. Pinhead from Hellraiser, has a Youtube channel where he reads stories and poems
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpv8lo/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qpv8lo/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"They literally say might, it’s not solved. I still believe 👽",
"Doesn’t seem solved to me, just sounds like a theory. My Theory is that it’s Cosmo Kramer with one of his nutcase schemes that’s gotten out of hand.",
"Kinda tongue in cheeky about UFOs and balloons lol",
"\"A jet pack, Jerry! It's fool proof!\"",
"It should have been an episode. I can hear it all and see it all now.",
"“Throughout history, every mystery ever solved has turned out to be NOT magic...” (Or Super-science)\n— Tim Minchin"
] | 6 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRO04N41vvA
|
/r/videos/comments/qpvoa9/i_was_stuck_in_patagonia_for_7_months_for_the/
|
[
"Beautiful!",
"I dunno if stuck conveys the feeling that that video does. It looks amazing.",
"I can never figure out the right word to use. Trapped? Stranded?",
"Thank you!",
"Forced vacation! lol",
"Stuck in Patagonia?\n\nIn the history of spoken language, have those words ever been uttered?",
"I like that, actually",
"I really don't have the words to describe it... trapped? stranded? not-allowed-to-leave?",
"You can stick me in Patagonia anytime, beautiful shots!",
"Thank you!"
] | 10 |
videos
|
I was stuck in Patagonia for 7 months for the pandemic so I made this film
|
https://youtu.be/0uFr28QWz2I
|
/r/videos/comments/qpw1np/metal_band_trivium_stop_the_show_so_that_fans/
|
[
"Matt seems like he’s genuinely an all around awesome human being.",
"I sometimes watch his Twitch streams. Agreed.",
"Great band...in no fucking way is controlling a small metal crowd like controlling 30,000 people. \n\nI get the other guy is shit but lets not pretend a full house and a fucking crowd of tens of thousands are the same.",
"If this doesn’t satisfy you, you can google and find plenty of large arena shows where rock bands have stopped the show to control the crowd. So yes it is possible for musicians to influence large crowds, not just stand there and fucking hum into a microphone while lifeless fans are carried out and people dance on ambulances trying to get to the injured.",
"I am not saying it isnt possible I am saying it is an entirely different thing to control a crowd of a few dozen or couple hundred versus a 50,000 people city all at once. \n\nI love metal and have been to a ton of concerts big and small but arguing the two are the same is crap. \n\nLook I dont pretend to listen to his music or know how much experience he has (hopefully had, and wont again) with massive crowds but you really cant compare some of the crap people are posting."
] | 5 |
videos
|
Metal band Trivium stop the show so that fans don't get injured.
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDd3GIzREuE
|
/r/videos/comments/qpwam6/how_the_elites_divide_us_opinion_piece/
|
[
"Not really sure what to make of this. Seems like a lot of lofty idealism \"why can't we just get along?\" with zero pragmatic steps to accomplish, well anything. The video seemed to want to really explain the **how** part of elites dividing us. But just ended up quoting a few people, and making a lame duck \"both sides\" argument. \n\nI can't say I have any new information than before.",
"I completely understand your view on this and its just a simple video and my first try so im sorry you did not learn anything new and didnt find any value i will continue to try make better content, thanks for watching",
">a lame duck \"both sides\" argument.\n\nThat is because he wants you to think for yourself, not be spoon fed a polarity, but your hubris caused you to not see this. First lesson of learning is humility.",
"Thanks man, well said. much love",
"> That is because he wants you to think for yourself\n\nSaying \"both sides are the same!\" and ignoring all nuance is not thinking for yourself. It is absolving ones self from having to think at all.",
"A video titled \"How the elites divide us\"\n\n\"Think for yourself I'm not spoon feeding you information\"\n\nlol",
"Hey man, it's way easier to be a critic than a creator. So don't let my negative view dissuade you. My only advice would be, if you want to make a video on the how of something, spend more time actually thinking about HOW. For example, I think the War on Drugs would have been a great point to include in your video as an answer to HOW. A wildly popular political agenda, meant to directly counter the psychedelic awakening occurring in the 60's and 70s, as well as to curb people of color from gaining too much political influence. It was embraced by both sides of the political spectrum and has done nothing but great harm to average people. \n\nJust an example, I'm much more inclined to watch videos that get into greater details of political and historical events, rather than birds eye philosophical viewpoints. But keep it up!",
"really great idea for a video thank you so much for your feedback, you should make youtube videos!",
"Ergo, quod est demonstrandum, sic probo",
"Did you just watch a video titled \"How to sound more intelligent than you actually are?\"",
"You keep proving my point. Thank you. There are limits to intelligence but not so stupidity.\n\nThe arrogance of a little learning leads to a closed mind and has atrophied your intellect.\n\nStamping your feet and getting angry stymies a recovery of your mental autonomy.",
"yeah homie you did watch that video. Fucking lol."
] | 12 |
videos
|
How the elites divide us (opinion piece)
|
https://youtu.be/LTJvdGcb7Fs
|
/r/videos/comments/qpwh7s/a_true_classic_the_internet_is_for_porn_on/
|
[
"I don’t understand shy we never got a movie version of this show. The music is so good!",
"Avenue Q is brilliant, happy I got to see it on its original run. We need more comedy like this, pokes every bear…and fucks every ass!",
"I still loved the W.o.W version lol\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRgNOyCnbqg",
"“Everyone’s a Little Bit Racist” is just so goddamn catchy.",
"And true",
"Honestly this is one of the best WoW machinima ever made in my opinion. Right up there with the single ladies remake, and the hardware store one.",
"I also love how it came out right around Kates playground revealing that that 'model' had a club foot, hence the Tauren being used in the video.",
"I don't think it would translate as well to the screen as you think. A lot of little nuances that can get lost with an adaptation, especially one that's parodying children's television, with live puppeteers intended to be visible, and heavy-hitting topics, and dubiously diegetic music, and a rights contest that PBS might get involved in",
"Well I’d be very happy with a well-filmed live production, but I think animation if done right could work well.",
"I still quote [this one](https://youtu.be/8EPrW9rC3vA) from time to time.",
"[this is pretty good](https://youtu.be/vWEskfjMBCg) by musical-footage-standards",
"Ooh I’ll have to give it a watch, is it the whole thing? Thank you",
"I think so, but I haven't watched it myself yet. There are other versions online, some with the broadway cast, but this is the best quality one I saw back when I looked for it after seeing book of mormon",
"Book of Mormon has awesome music too, I have only watched clips of it on YouTube though. Sucks it doesn’t have a movie either.",
"ah dude, you just made me remember r/MusicalBootlegs, because that's where I got a good recording of book of mormon from. Can't find it right now, though",
"That’s pretty cool. Too bad they aren’t all hosted up somewhere for people who *dont* live in New York or can’t afford to see every show on broadway when it releases.\n\nI thought I heard every show is filmed for theater students or something but it’s only for study uses. Kinda lame to me",
"Fun fact. Robert Lopez, the co-creater/co-writer of Avenue Q is also a co-writer on the music for Disney's Frozen",
"I can see her lips moving..."
] | 18 |
videos
|
A true classic, the internet is for porn [on broadway]
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpzrvg/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qpzrvg/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"I never watched any of the Hellraiser movies but I recently read one of Clive Barkers short story collections and one story in it, \"In the Hills the Cities\" was pretty fucking wild stuff.\n\nTop marks for weirdness.",
"Barker is genius, I remember being a little kid and trying to order his other books and comics from a bookstore…I didn’t realize it was a religious book store, and the lady told me I was going to hell. Hulu is doing a series, but so is HBO…we shall see. The mythos is insanely deep…but extremely fucked up.",
"Random fact: There’s a quote from Clive Barker’s “In the Hills, the Cities” that became lyrics to a Nine Inch Nails song. The quote is about churches smelling like “stale incense, old sweat, and lies.”",
"Love NIN!",
"Didn't the guy go on to be useless Gorman in Aliens 2?",
"Yeah, William Hope I believe…hated Gorman!",
"Yea same lol",
"It's just Aliens. No such thing as Aliens 2.",
"Yea no one cares.",
"Mom?",
"There's a card from Magic that always makes me think of that story: https://scryfall.com/card/soi/107/diregraf-colossus",
"the original hellraiser story is pretty short, not a short story, but you can get through it fairly quickly. It's called [The Hellbound Heart](https://onlinereadfreenovel.com/clive-barker/40956-the_hellbound_heart.html) and it's pretty good."
] | 12 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qpzzj6/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qpzzj6/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"oh how the tables turn.",
"That's where shitty culture will get ya",
"It’s satire, but the stats are real. The company doesn’t actually feed Americans, but the stats about us literally starving are real.",
"It's also completely true that \"great nations eat\" lol.",
"Lol do you even support yourself or are you just some dumb racist kid shooting his mouth off online? I bet I can guess which one.",
"It's ok. You're doing fascism pretty well on your own. You love those swastikas over there.",
">Since when is “poor” a race?\n\nPeople can read context into things, asshole.",
"\n/r/tscottdidnothingwrong",
"This whole video seems unbelievably patronizing. I've never met a single person who talked about food insecurity and had anything to do with poor people. The idea is so far removed from the reality of being poor in America that only someone who had no idea what they were talking about would believe it.\n\nThere are tons of problems with being poor, but finding enough food to survive isn't one of them. I've lived on the street before and never had any trouble getting food, and that was before I got foodstamps. I knew drug addicts who spent about 95% of their energy finding drugs and still managed to carry extra weight.\n\nEvery American is guaranteed enough food to live by the food stamps program. Your entitlement is indexed by the cost of living in your area and the number of people in your family, among other things.\n\nIf you're using your food stamps to buy food that gives your children diabetes, the problem is with your diet choices and not your poverty. People respond by pointing to \"food deserts,\" ie places where only unhealthy food is for sale. I really have no idea what these places are supposed to look like. I've stayed with a friend in New Mexico where the closest store was an hour's drive, but once you get there you're allowed to buy whatever food you want. People just go once or twice a month to save gas. If you live in a city there's about a zero percent chance you're in a food desert. I guarantee there is a grocery store with regular food for sale within a half hour's walk/bike/bus ride.\n\nWhy make up issues for poor people to have? There's already too many real issues being poor to waste talking points on fake ones.",
"Last time I watched American TV, there were plenty of ads about families that couldn't feed themselves, people that have to work multiple jobs, I've never seen anything like that at home, it was quite shocking as a non American. That and the mesothelioma ads\n\nEdit: \n\nI'm not judging your country you twats. I'm just saying I saw an ad and it was kinda shocking. Some that were played a lot were \"feeding America\" eg:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/d-VsYgmqbKs\nhttps://youtu.be/XXvllhXB5u4\n\nThen there was another I cannot remember, but was about a teacher that had to work a 2nd job to pay bills and feed the family. \n\nI'm not saying ads = a documentary of USA ffs",
"We don't need to import the poor. Just go into any Walmart, a multi-billion dollar company that doesn't pay it'd employees enough to live on, forcing them to go on food stamps. \n\nYou seem to love talking about \"government handouts\" yet you're complaining about immigrants and refugees, not companies that don't pay their workers a living wage.",
"German poverty rate is 14% ish currently with a population of 83million.",
"The woman in this is Lucie Pohl, voice actress of Mercy from Overwatch. How random.",
"America currently produce more Nazis than any country on Earth. You guys are already well on your way....and all that without Germany's help.",
"As the stats are real, it is no longer satire.",
"\"I'm a billionaire and approve this message\"",
"It's normal there is more people struggling than in Germany, there is much more people in the US than in Germany. \n\n\n\n/s",
"hey, you were the one who came up with the 'bringing in poor people', like owning things is a personalty trait that makes you superior",
"Angry man with little peepee energy mad at foreign people.",
"Immigrants actually start up businesses and new trade connections at a much faster than locally born citizens. They’re a net benefit. \n\nIt’s a key part of what fuelled US growth last century, and why countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand are competing for high immigration rates (currently double the US immigration rate per capita).\n\nIt’s the deal of the century, and the only thing stopping it are the “hur hur we give our money to immigrants” idiots.",
"???",
"Pot kettle black, bro. \n\nIt’s hard to think of a less militaristic and nationalist Western country. Or one with as many anti-fascist safeguards.",
"We all know it’s easy to get *cheap calories* in the US. For most Western countries, “enough food” means “enough healthy nutrients”. \n\nThe US literally has fresh food deserts - places where it’s nearly impossible to buy non-processed foods - if you don’t have gas money and a car.",
"No Germany is not running commercials to help feed America this is satire and its a very old clip",
"Its satire and also fucking old. Chill bro",
"Well, you’re now 2/2 for being wrong. \n\n- The US is largely a service-based economy, not a factory economy. These are services. \n\n- All past major immigration waves have followed this basic pattern. Filling any existing service needs allows others to take on more lucrative work (imagine a young software developer having to do less coding, to clean their house)\n\n- One minute they are lazy drains on the economy, the next they are doing hard work for minimum wage - that locals don’t want to do. This is known as “Schrödinger’s Immigrant”, and is a common mental fallacy. \n\n- Immigrants don’t do just these (still important) jobs. They also keep American farms running, set up import/export companies (to buy things they can’t buy efficiently in their new country), and support their children studying degrees for more highly skilled jobs. \n\nHonestly, having to explain the same obvious points to the low educated feels like explaining what the red, yellow and green traffic lights mean for the 10,000th time. It’s tiresome for us, and embarrassing for you.",
"I get this a controversial take, but frozen vegetables are unironically superior to fresh vegetables. They're much cheaper, and slightly tastier. Plus they are pretty much the same quality no matter where you buy them. I don't know the last time I ate a fresh vegetable. \n\nI get that it's hard to have a good diet. My diet is pretty shit right now. But I've been all over and just don't believe any meaningful number of Americans live in a place where they can't buy the staples of a healthy diet.",
"You're probably right. I don't know why that made me so mad.",
"I don’t think frozen fruits, berries or vegetables are generally considered processed foods - since they’re whole foods without additives. They’re also my first choice for the reasons you say (and less waste). \n\nFood deserts are zones where it’s impossible to shop outside of 7-11 style convenience stores, gas stations etc - so just fast food, processed bread items, hotdogs, etc.",
"And I was replying to your moronic ideas that only work on the internet. And yea, you already mentioned brown people as the cause of all problems, because that's exactly what you meant with 'importing people'. We all know what Tucker says",
"no need to be sarcastic about it lmao, its just a cool random fact",
"Please compare the statistics for racially motivated crimes in the us/germany for me",
">People coming here and starting lawn care and house keeping services so they can send money out of the country isn’t what made America great I can assure you.\n\nYou’re certainly not making yourself look like any less of a racist with sentiments like this.",
"you mean those white, illegal immigrants that overran the american population in the 1500s?",
"It's satire.",
"America is the fattest country in the world. You are not literally starving. You need less food not more.",
"And introduced plagues that killed millions.",
"It isn't, that's just the stereotype.\n\nThey do have an overweight issue though, afaik.\n\nThe main issue is that they are eating unhealthy food, because it is cheaper and easier available compared to healthy food.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThat said, aboves clip is satire and not some official german campaign to help america",
"Ironically this is one ☝️",
"also vicious religious believes!",
"I disagree on the \"tastier\" side, that really depends on what you are using them for. Try making a salad from frozen veggies for example. It's just a mush.\n\nIf you cook them into a sauce or something like that i agree and prefer the frozen variants. But they really aren't great for direct consumption anymore.",
"if germany is teaching america that, it seems like a \"student has surpassed the master\" scenario to me",
">Try making a salad from frozen veggies for example. It's just mush\n\nIt's at this point I'm forced to admit that everything I cook goes into an instant pot and ends up as mush anyway.",
"how rich were your ancestors when they\"were imported\" to america?",
"huge difference between starving and food insecurity. Pretty much no one in the United States is starving.\n\nIt should also be noted the US ranks just ahead of Germany on the Global Food Security Index.\n\nhttps://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/Index\n\nedit: I am also having trouble finding that 20% number. In 2019 10.5% of Americans experienced food insecurity at some point. That of course spiked last year to 25% due to the pandemic but I am sure we are not dealing with pandemic numbers in that video. Outside of global pandemics the US typically has about 10% food insecurity, not 20%. Still not something to be ignored but I am not sure that satirical video was using accurate numbers. I should also note that food insecurity can be as simple as receiving food assistance or lack of access to desired nutritional food just once. Only about 1/3 of that 10% actually reduced their food intake or missed a meal due to lack of food. Again, not something to be ignored but I want to put this stuff in perspective.\n\nedit2: The real answer is the video is older than I realized, and yes, I get it, many of you hate everthing about the US. it is a complete shithole and 20% of people are starving because that is what you want to believe. Fine, I agree. US is shit. The poor have an obesity epidemic while starving to death at the same time. It really is a horrible hellscape in the US. There, happy?",
"Our poverty is not quite like other country's povertys.\nBut yeah, the new government is working on it.",
"OK, it's the fattest country in the world apart from some pacific islands.\n\nThe main issue is that they are eating too much food. If you eat moderate amounts of cheap food you will not get obese.",
"haha\n\ndon't get me wrong, i love \"long cooked one pot food\" too :)",
"Both really. Inequality is the name of the game",
"The new government isn't even in power yet. They are still negotiating. They are definitely not working on it (yet).",
"No. The poorest are more likely to be overweight and obese than average.",
"Very poor effort troll my man. You gotta build up to this level of stupid, start off with innocent and work your way up you dumb monkey. Good luck 👍",
"Don't forget history revisionism ! Oh and con men",
"You are right. But the concepts of many things were already worked out and I am sure there are many Bundestagsabgeordnete that are already preparing a lot of stuff.",
"It’s an old joke video people are taking seriously. Nothing to see here",
"Look at those damn Nazis, always making sure oppressed people have something to eat. I hear they've also invested the billions into America's train systems.",
">It isn't, that's just the stereotype. \n \nOnly Kuwait has a higher obesity rate, among countries with more than 1 million population. So it is in some sense almost the fattest country in the world.",
"It was a tough couple of days. Somehow I made it through without knowing who the fuck that person is. And I intend to keep it that way.",
"Poor people have been in the USA for centuries. The South is full of widespread poverty. The state of Georgia was literally started as a colony to ship Britain's debtors and criminals.",
"Parts of it are. Parts of it are cool.",
"Frozen vegetables don't taste better than fresh. You're making a good point, don't sully it with nonsense.",
"Yeah they clearly need more bread variety",
"It was made in 1946 or at 19:46",
"America isn’t a monolith. America is bigger than 193 countries and only smaller than 2. The experience someone has in rural Mississippi or Alabama is WILDLY different from what someone would experience in the Hamptons and every shade there in between. I assume you are from Australia, it’s a country 11x larger than Australia and with levels of diversity that would astound most Aussies. So just chucking America up in the 10 words is challenging.",
"&#x200B;\n\n>Jacques Bermon Webster II (born April 30, 1991), known professionally as Travis Scott (formerly stylized as Travi$ Scott), is an American rapper and record producer. His stage name is the namesake of a favorite uncle combined with the first name of one of his inspirations, Kid Cudi\n\nlmao now you do",
"Ooof",
"C'mon, how are Bezos and Musk going to get back to almost space if they are forced to pay people living wages enough to be able to afford housing AND food.",
"This thread is great for blocking people.",
"Stats are real-ly misleading",
"It reminds me of this video I watched about why we're fat and hungry",
"I think you misused \"literally\" unless you're referring to dieters.\n\nThere are people with poor nutrition, but actual starvation? Hard to find a case of that.",
"Getting mad over a fake video and also pulling the nazi card holy shit pls travel the world some more and get to know some new cultures",
"The fuck you talking about",
"Are you saying The USA is 11x larger that Australia or Garmany?",
"Not mexico ? Cola seems in high demand ...",
"Yeah, no. With more immigration it will just get worse. That's why working class parties were always against immigration until recently.",
"Yeah it's an interesting one. He sounds like he should be living in a castle somewhere in the 1700s.",
"Just glad not to see any sort of concert clips. \"In 1996 Oasis bought all their fans steak dinners\"",
"I hate when people say that unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy ones. It is more convenient, that is for sure, but it is way more expensive. I like this video where some [crazy pastor demonstrates the value of food](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3PZk94Wsqo).",
"Yeah except they aren’t. You just say they are because maybe it helps you hold your political position in your mind… idk. But your claim is Google-ably false.",
">I am sure there are many Bundestagsabgeordnete that are already preparing a lot of stuff.\n\nMany what?",
"Not too much, but calorie dense foods with nutrition that is not varied because they don’t have access to fresh food. Food deserts are a thing in the US and of course they affect marginalized communities at higher levels.\n\nIn short, if you’re poor and living in a food desert, it’s cheaper to have a McDonald’s meal than it is to drive to a far away grocery store to get fresh food. \n\nAlso, poor communities are made up of people working multiple jobs to keep afloat with very little time to dedicate to cooking nutritious meals for their families. \n\nHope this clears it up.",
"> levels of diversity that would astound most Aussies.\n\nr/shitamericanssay\n\nNext you'll be telling me each state is like it's own little country.",
"Darn, just satire. For a second I thought other countries were going to start taxing their citizens to send America money instead of the other way around for a change.",
"The People that work in the german Bundestag/Parlament.",
"The what ads?",
"Maybe look for \"struggled to afford food\" ~~which is what is says in the video~~",
"This guy ain't a gangster, his real name's Jacques. And Jacques lives at home with both parents. And Jacques' parents have a real good marriage.",
"Who's mad?",
"r/politicalhumor",
"Well that's god damn embarrassing.\n\nI want to say \"America, get your shit together!\" but then I remember that this is by design, not an accident.\n\n\"Germany, I appreciate where your heart is, but we aren't worth fighting for if we won't fight for ourselves.\"",
"If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call our law offices today. You may be entitled to compensation.\n\nMesothelioma is a disease most commonly associated with asbestos exposure.",
"Language is a method to transfer ideas and concepts between minds. As such, accuracy in the used language does have importance. /u/marauderofgeese is making a serious point in a valuable conversation about an important subject. Their use of 'us literally starving' implies it is rather common for US people to die of starvation, of which /u/iamkylearan reasonably and accurately noted death of starvation is very uncommon in the USA and that the incorrect use of 'literally' changed the meaning of the otherwise valuable contribution.\n\nYou assigning snark because of a well-intended and perfectly justifiable correction is not helping anything or anyone. Pointing out mistakes whilst furthering the conversation is a constructive sign of respect. Assuming a correction is a way for the corrector to feel smart and / or intended to degrade is a sign of intellectual illiteracy.",
"You are right that America is diverse, it isn't any one thing. But America is also one of the richest countries in the world, with ample propaganda about how it is a land of great opportunity where anybody can thrive, while simultaneously having lots of extreme poverty and a lack of basic protections that almost every other developed nation has. America may be diverse, but it could afford to better protect and provide for its people. The tragedy of America is not the suffering of its people, but rather how entirely preventable most of that suffering is.\n\nOne shouldn't compare America to another country and say \"it's so big, so obviously it's not a good comparison.\" One should compare it to, say, the EU, but if Europeans viewed themselves as even more unified than they do. And with that comparison, America does not stack up very well (although both have their more and less successful states).",
"It's called \"Freedom to starve\"",
"my theory is that the Astroworld tragedy gets pushed so hard because it distracts from the fact that in Texas more people die *every day* from covid",
"They should….",
"So that's why the German is so weird.\n\n\"hungrig nach einem Wechsel\" is pretty wonky. It should be \"hungrig nach Veränderung\" and it doesn't take much creativity to get there.",
"Until you realize food costs money. If you buy and eat too much, it could very well be the factor that makes you go broke. That logic thing your going on about is pretty elusive huh? Ffs",
"Maybe thats why America is the richest nation in the World",
"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert",
"Not really...",
"I based it on my personal experience when i am there, if i try and buy all the ingredients i need for a burger i am spending far more than if i just bought a burger at a fast food joint. And that isn't even accounting for expenses like cooking pans/knifes/electricity or gas to cook/etc... It often felt like i am creating a chore for me on my vacation while also paying more, just to try and eat a bit more healthy than the convenience garbage. \n\nYou have a point, before starving there are also options that aren't just garbage. Rice and beans can go a loooong way IF you can store them, cook them and have the knowledge how to season them cheaply. They are even quite tasty (again, if you have knowledge about preparation).\n\n&#x200B;\n\nI couldn't watch the whole video, but it doesn't seem like it is trying to make a good faith argument. Why is a bag of brand chips taken as baseline for \"unhealthy food\"? And then looked at the $/pound ratio and comparing it to fresh produce. Yeah, no shit, a dehydrated product weighs less than a hydrated one. Who is eating lays chips as a meal?",
"Show me something of equivalent caloric value that’s cheaper and healthier than anything off the dollar menu at McD’s.\n\nIt’s *absolutely true* that unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food when you factor in the volume of fruit, veg and good protein sources required to make a healthy meal.\n\nThis pastor is absolutely full of shit because he’s so privileged he isn’t smart enough to know what junk to buy or where to buy it in order to make it cheap!\n\nWe ain’t buying Lays branded chips and lil Debbie bitch! We at Dollartree buying off brand shit, raman, wonderbread and shitty jelly, or at Walmart in the frozen section buying dirt cheap French fries and chicken nuggets that might have once seen a chicken.",
"I don't think quotation marks mean what you think they mean",
"You are mixing price and availability.",
"Kuweighti",
"Shouldn't trust or believe a single thing said or done on TV.",
"Well this is satire, but the real issue is not starvation, but rather too many calories. The US has the highest obesity rate, which actually skews towards lower income Americans.",
"Ok, I guess the country is lost then.",
"Dont show Joe Rogan",
"Everything will always get worse as long people peddle bullshit like this.",
"Too many calories, not enough nutrients.",
"Given that this is the way a \"Food Desert\" is defined: \n>In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture reported that 23.5 million people in the U.S. live in \"food deserts\", meaning that they live in low income census tracts more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas.\n\nI'm skeptical that the designation means much at all. There's several ways to get to a grocery store even with those distances in mind. This also hinges on the definition of a \"supermarket\", which is not the same thing (apparently) as a grocery store. By making the distinction of \"supermarket\" it sounds like they need to be near a Wal-Mart, Target, or similar establishment.",
"But is it",
"Yeah, since there's like only a dozen German people who else could they have picked?",
"Have you ever been a single parent? Have you ever had to feed another mouth other than your own? Buying too much food is far from these family's problems. And yes, logic was at play here.",
"more than 1 in 10 of adults have diabetes 1 in 3 have pre-diabetes, 42.7% are obese.\n\npeople are well fed here but the poor people fill up on sugar, corn, wheat and mystery meat",
">It doesn't change the reality that there are groups that usually provide emergency healthcare in the 3rd world that routinely setup giant tent clinics that do basic medical and dental work for poor people.\n\nI live in France and I have seen the same exact thing with Medecins sans frontiere/Doctors without borders in the streets of Paris.\n\nYou're kidding yourself or haven't traveled much if you think the US is the only developed country that has horribly desperate poverty. I've seen people here go through trashcans for food or drink puddles of rain water from the streets of Paris.... similar to what I saw in San Francisco.\n\nNot excusing USA's shitty social services; just that all this exists in most developed countries too excluding the top of the top for HDI (Japan, Norway, Luxembourg, etc).",
"They might have given up on genocide many decades ago\n\nBut their propaganda game is still on point\n\nLiberal redditors: Behold, and learn",
"So it America: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50tFCpv3Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50tFCpv3Cg)",
"~~They~~ **America** do, though: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50tFCpv3Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50tFCpv3Cg)\n\nYouTube channel: [https://www.youtube.com/feedingamerica](https://www.youtube.com/feedingamerica)\n\nWebsite: [https://www.feedingamerica.org/](https://www.feedingamerica.org/)",
"Why is it like that though? Probably because the cheaper food that poor family's buy, usually aren't as healthy as a family with a larger budget. I've been on both food stamps, and previously had a high paying job. Guess which budget allowed my family to eat better?",
"No, but America is:\n\n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50tFCpv3Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50tFCpv3Cg)\n\n[https://www.youtube.com/feedingamerica](https://www.youtube.com/feedingamerica)\n\nDonate or volunteer here: [https://www.feedingamerica.org/](https://www.feedingamerica.org/)",
"FAKE NEWS",
"Yes. They're exploiting a semantic game to make things sound far worse than they actually are [even if it's not good... I agree food insecurity shouldn't be a thing but it's dishonest to say that 50M people are literally and unironically starving when the actual statistic is that 1 in 5 have faced food insecurity some time in the past year.. which could include being eligible for food stamps. That is NOWHERE NEAR 50m people literally starving] because Reddit is full of literal communists who are happy to jump at the opportunity to call the US a third world country to generate enough outrage to spark a revolution they think they will win.",
"Yes",
"I’m literally always starving for chipotle",
"So, in other words, places with even more excuses to need such things than a developed urban center like Paris. What's your point again?",
"Satire is just (v)eritas spelled backwards",
"Unless these are aired in Germany, they don't.",
"The US ranks very, very low when it comes to giving foreign aid, at 0.18% of the GNI...",
"I agree that the numbers seem a little bit inflated, but it's still a thing that exists.",
"That’s good to know. I was worried there was actually over 49 million Americans struggling with food insecurity. \n\nKind of a messed up joke but good that it’s not true.",
"I can’t tell if this is satire or not…. It’s definitely not a state = country. It’s more like a region = a country. The Southwestern desert 🏜 is very different from the forests of New England and cascades of the PNW and so are the people. Australia is not particularly diverse. I’ve been there and found it to be pretty white and sterile. Lots of avocado toast.",
">I'm talking about West Virginia, where doctors and dentists just don't exist for hundreds of miles in some areas\n\nInterestingly, of the many problems in the US healthcare industry, lack of access due to lack of medical infrastructure in rural areas isn't usually discussed as high priority since I think US rural areas healthcare networks are quite well set up.\n\nUS has the highest amount of CTs/MRIs/ and mammography units per capita in the developed world. US also has the most MR/CT exams per capita in the world. Similar stats when it comes to lab diagnostics, ICUs, Imaging centers etc. (source: JAMA 2018;219(10):1024-1039 [https://europepmc.org/article/med/30041827](https://europepmc.org/article/med/30041827))\n\nNow affordable access to these facilities? Yes, huge issue, which is actually the main topic of my linked source",
"Oh so so that is where [this ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBcX2EBwnNI) comes from. It's basically exactly the same thing but from a Chinese point of view. I wonder who made these and for what purpose.",
"Edgy.",
"Yeah, that's basically Joe Rogan's target audience. \n\nAlso more than a few of the current 67% upvoting this (me included) can understand satire and appreciate the joke.",
"That's quite impressive.",
"But also 10% of US households are food insecure.\n\nThat's the issue with so much of the US the haves have too much and the have nots dont have enough. \n\nhttps://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/key-statistics-graphics.aspx",
"This isn't real lmao.\n\nAlso, very few in America struggle to afford food. Food is very cheap here.\n\nFood insecurity is just defined as being eligible for food stamps. But food isn't hard to get in America. There's a reason most of our homeless are fat as fuck.\n\nHealthcare though, that's a different story",
"But...it's not news? Do you like yell that at the sky when it looks like it's going to rain but doesn't? What's wrong with your brain?",
"Say for me?",
"I mostly agree with you. But we must remember that the vast majority of Americans are doing extremely well by global standards. Yes, there is poverty and it should be preventable. The US culturally is far too individualistic to adopt policies to solve the poverty problem at scale. That’s the biggest difference. Everywhere else is way more collective than we are and it shows in how we treat our least well off citizens. It’s saddening/maddening but the country on the whole is still the most powerful and economically vibrant in the world by a lot. (Traveled everywhere - USA is doing better than you think) which to your point is the sad part",
"And that is most assuredly not \"literally starving.\"",
"Hallo America, do you vant zum fridom?",
"Very stupid theory.",
"Next thing you’ll tell me millions of Americans worship Donald Trump.",
"So you don't think affordability, availability, and quality are important metrics when dealing with a country's ability to feed itself well?\n\nIt is literally a measurement of food security. Food security means having, at all times, both physical and economic access to sufficient food to meet dietary needs for a productive and healthy life.\n\nYou really don't see the relevancy here?",
"Well, it's not 49M, it's 39M. \n\nhttps://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/key-statistics-graphics.aspx",
"The U.S. is in second place for Food Quality & Safety? From what I know about the lack of regulations I can't imagine how that is possible. I guess I have to read up on their definition of that term.\n\n\nEdit: [At the bottom of the Methodology page](https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/Home/Methodology)it says \n>Measures the variety and nutritional quality of average diets, as well as the safety of food.\n\nWhich still sounds weird to me considering obesity and water quality just as a few things off of the top of my head.\n\n\n\nEdit 2: since I ruffled so many feathers and was not accurate enough about my confusion: With lack of regulations I was refering to pesticides and Antibiotics/Hormone use in the Meat Índustry. \n\nAlso I would never take posts from social media as factual Information, I look them up seperately. \nIf anyone could explain to me how the data the GFSI Panel uses is gathered and evaluated that would be much appreciated.",
"Man European posting hours are so fucking weird. What are you even talking about. Other than the mesothelioma ads, definitely know about those.",
"That is a part of food insecurity. I am sorry I used difficult words.",
"But also:\n\nhttps://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/key-statistics-graphics.aspx\n\n39M people in the US live in food-insecure households. So it might be satire, but it's not that far off.",
"Ah yes, food security and the medical system. I personally shop at my local hospital for my groceries. Great selection!",
"\\>us literally starving are real.\n\nWrong. Food insecurity isn't about struggling to find food, it''s about quality and nutrition. No one dies of starvation in the US. Food insecurity can be defined as \"having a reduced quality, variety, and desirability of diets.\" Some charities are guilty of sidestepping the fact being food insecure doesn't mean you have any reduction in actual quantity of food. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nPoor people in the US are far more likely to be obese because of a lack quality options, not withering in the streets.",
"And yet it is the single largest contributor of foreign aid in the world.",
"Because you are poor?",
"Good comment, here are your 20 Rubles Ivan.",
"Go ahead and find 2500 calories of the least expensive healthy food you can find, and I'll find 2500 off a fast food dollar menu that winds up at half the price.",
">That index has almost nothing to do with people starving\n\nLook up literally any charity in the US that purports to feed hungry children/families. Every single one references food security. Why not a metric that is more akin to actual starvation? Literally no one in the US starves, the poor get fat on shite food, they don't wither in the streets.",
"make sure the distribution is handled correctly, some of them seems like they had more than their share.",
"Quite right. Corrected.",
"You're letting your preconceptions get ahead of you.",
"sigh, ill change my upvote to a downie",
"Another great example of crowd control!",
"That'd just be an imprecise ADR. That's Lucie Pohl and it's definitely her voice.",
"I thought Mexico had surpassed the US?",
"Edgy about what? Highlighting a problem?",
"At 0:17 she says something about ZZ Top.\n\nAlso...this is very convincing satire.",
"Shhhh, your ruining all the fun, spoil sport!!!",
">It is literally a measurement of food security.\n\nNot the way this index is defined. And really, you muddle the waters with \"natural resources and resilience\" and don't think anyone is going to object? It's an indication if the country is prepared to live sustainable and healthy, at best. Not if the people are so poor they can't afford good food. USA might have cheaper food, but that price tag is supported with such a disastrous minimum wage that people are lucky to get food stamps.\n\n[Their own congresswomen are ripping their shitty economy, giving an example how you can easily starve while working full time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WLuuCM6Ej0)",
"I can't believe they didnt feature a morbidly obese child.",
"Parts of rural Alabama are incredibly poor. Sewage flowing openly into ditches, kids who cannot afford coats in the winter, a school pantry that let's kids bring home food to eat for the weekend. I knew of one family with 4 boys who In the winter only had a single coat to share. The youngest would get it Monday and Friday, the others each got a day with it. The school had a coat drive and a lot of us chipped in. Mostly posting because while this video is satire, a lot of Americans could use this kind of aid.",
"wouldn't elaborate?",
"\"I just want to put this in perspective, yes some people are hungry but the New York Times told me those people don't *really* have it that bad and that they're just a bunch of whiners. America is the best at everything and anyone who says otherwise is a Chinese bot.\"",
"I was joking im Canadian... Now you look stupid you should probably delete that...",
"Ooofen",
"Your anecdotes aside, the US doesn't come close to France or any other developed nation in social services, especially when considering spending per capita.",
"Many different 'complicated names' have made me think of this line.",
"Because all GNIs are the same so you can just compare percentages across the board right?",
"It may be satire, the question is if it's poignant satire. It's not very clever, IMHO.\n\nBut it reminded me of the Africa For Norway campaign from years back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJLqyuxm96k",
"Lets not simplify this conversation like that. We both are aware of statistics about Health and Air/water quality that make the U.S. look bad. I'm curious on how the actual data is collected for this panel of experts at the GFSI to conclude the final index number.",
"> Also, very few in America struggle to afford food. Food is very cheap here.\n\n[Food Insecurity affects 38 million people](https://frac.org/hunger-poverty-america), or 11.8% of the population. The entire point of the child tax credit is to help get people out of poverty and be able to pay for their food & housing\n\n(Germany has Kindergeld and has for decades. You get it independent of your income. This is now what America is finally trying to do but is tied to income)",
"First world problems",
"Realität is schon scheiße, wa",
"With the difference that you still get medical insurance and housing for free. Which is unthinkable in many countries. \nI am sure that Americans earn more than the german on average, but I am sure that you know that comparing both country's with the median as key factor is not really the way to go.",
"Oh great, that's much better then /s",
"Die in der du lebst hört sich ganz danach an.",
"Wait wait wait. Are you saying the 6 million Jewish weren't racially motivated?",
"\"I am sorry I used difficult words.\" WHY Why does every reddit comment thread have to be confontive. They weren't trying to insult you; just inform. But you took it as an attack? I swear reddit didn't used to be this bad; just engage in the conversation dude.",
"wow aren't you really great and interesting",
"The way you use stats you may as well be arguing those points.\n\nPretty incompetent overall",
"Exactly. It doesn't even use german text in the graphs. Only the voiceover uses german to suggest that this is a german commercial",
"Eh, is that adjusted for cost of living? Food and rent is way cheaper in Germany",
"English isn't their first language, they meant asshole",
"I'd say it was on topic. Sorry about whoever pissed in your Cheerios this morning.",
"Very, very imprecise, to be sure",
"Its also about having such shit economic conditions/financials that you may be forced to sacrifice on food quality.\n\nIts all connected folks.",
"You sure showed me with your in depth use of stats!",
"Lol, you're the one channeling stupid. I'm fine with my comments.",
"Dass du außerhalb der Realität bist, war mir schon klar.",
"Onus is on you to understand what someone's saying. If you're going to struggle to afford food, you're insecure about it.\n\nHe literally apologized for you not comprehending, and commenting:\n\n>Maybe look for \"struggled to afford food\" which is what is says in the video",
"I'm interested in how you're going to boycott AWS routing and server infrastructure, which is the [majority of Amazon profits.](https://www.investopedia.com/how-amazon-makes-money-4587523) \n\nThe thing you see as \"Amazon\" is the pet project of an infrastructure company.",
"Which statistics about air and water quality would those be?",
"I mean it definitely *was* ADR'd since the video was clearly filmed outside in the breeze while the audio sounds like it was recorded in a booth with her mouth inches from a studio mic. What's up for debate is whether or not the ADR matched up well and if that's what makes it seem off.",
"if they wanted to inform they would have provided info on the search (which BTW the first link is again 10%). It was a snarky comment and the person didn't know food insecurity is the term used to track this kind of stuff. It was not helpful at all. Come on, you really think that person was trying to help with that comment? \n\nIn the end the real answer is the video is older than I realized.",
"Why would I get my Information on these two statistics I mentioned from reddit? No need to derail the discussion like that.",
"Is that you, Joe Rogan?",
"A lot of it is due to extremely ridiculous living costs in parts of the US, also the median is grossly fucked by high earners in the US. Median income is not a good representative value for a large portion of the population.",
"And yet you managed to turn the discussion towards him so well done.",
"I mean since we can't seem to figure this problem out ourselves, why not outsource? America will use anyone's money but their own to combat their self-inflicted problems.",
"Redditors have always taken a defensive stance when they think someone is correcting them.",
"So did you just not read the 4th sentence of my comment?\n\nThe point of food stamps is indeed to help alleviate their expenses so they can get out of poverty.\n\nThat does not mean that they would starve without food stamps",
"How is her accent? Did they get a native for the role, with a bad script, or they didn't even bother getting a native speaker?",
"So despite the fact I didn't link the NYT, or make any of them claims, and even stated twice it is indeed an issue this is your response.\n\nHoly shit, the \"USA sucks at everything!\" crowd is out in full force. We literally have an obesity epidemic among the poor and you want to believe they are starving at high rates. The guy literally used the word starving. That is not an issue in developed nations including the US.",
"Hahahahaha! Yea it's because we're saving so much by not spending it on helping people! Must be it!",
"According to the link only 5.1 million people had eating patterns disrupted or reduced food intake. The other 34 million just had to have assistance (food bank, government programs, etc) to keep their food intake and eating patterns consistent. Obviously, there’s room for improvement but it seems like our programs are doing a decent job.",
"Comparing poverty rates between countries allows you to compare wealth inequalities, but not access to water, food, shelter/housing, health care or education:\n\nhttps://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-rate.htm",
"Exactly, thank you!",
"[Here's a neat graph, I like graphs.](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/poverty-rate-60-of-median-lis-key-figures?country=FRA~GBR~DEU~SWE~USA~CHN)\n\nEdit, [this was interesting as well.](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-poverty-lines-vs-gdp-per-capita)",
"Shouldn't there be a rule against spreading misinformation? If someone sees this without checking the comments they probably believe its true.",
"To be fair, be posted that, saw it was satire, and edited the post.",
"> From what I know about the lack of regulations\n\nwow its almost like you dont know shit about america and listen to reddits bullshit too much",
"Fucking hell America you really need to stop falling for this shit.",
"Lol antiwork",
"Sure, and there's a good reason it's based on the median salary: because it costs different amounts to live in different places, and different places have different levels of service to their citizens. The median US household is not more than twice as well-off than the median German household. The average American household in poverty is not better-off than the median German household.",
"Please, take your European exceptionalism elsewhere.",
"Sounds like a good reason to reduce the military budget by removing all US servicemen from Germany, the rest of Europe, hell the rest of the world.",
"There aren't \"three dozen different aspects\" ... the original comment mentioned people \"literally starving,\" which we can agree is nonsense.",
"You are comparing American social benefits to german ones?",
"Who would have thought a propaganda machine may not tell the truth",
"Sadge",
"To continue to feed your people seems pretty important. You know, as is affordability, availability, and quality. You are trying really, really hard to talk about starvation. Stop using that word. That is not a thing in developed nations. She uses the word hungry one time, and is anecdotal evidence for something my post states is still an issue.\n\nI get it, you hate the US and anything that put issues in any kind of perspective that doesn't paint the US as a complete shithole you dislike it. I am not denying any issues, just putting them in perspective to the reality of the current situation.",
"The stats, like I just said, are based on \"food insecurity\". \n\nFood insecurity is defined in the US as being eligible for food stamps, which DOES NOT mean you can't afford food, it just means your poor and have dependants. \n\nThe poor aren't starving in America. In fact, most of them are overweight",
"I'm beginning to doubt the veracity of the claims presented in the 1984 documentary series *ALF*.",
"because old people might be affected by it?...wtf is wrong with people getting help to right a wrong? the usa banned it in the 70s just like europe\n\ndont act like europe didnt use it too\n\n>When was asbestos used in Europe?\nFrom 1920–1970",
"No problem mate, sometimes it can be difficulty to find thing's on google without specific wording.\n\nFor anyone readying, the source for the video looks like the \"gallup healthways well being index 2013\"\n\nHere is a summery: https://news.gallup.com/poll/164363/americans-struggle-afford-food.aspx",
"Of course you would make it a \"us vs them\" thing. Can we not question this Methedology of this GFSI \"Panel of Experts\" which at no point shows where the actual data is from and how it might get weighted? It really doesn't matter where I am from.",
"Dude youve gotta be seriously retarded to take what I said as anything but a joke. Lol r/whoosh much?",
"Sometimes you have to say something",
"Your link says 54% of profits come from AWS (from only 12% of total revenue, which is insane actually). And both retail and service sectors are growing at about the same rate. So you're really overselling it. The retail side of Amazon is half of the company.",
"This would destroy the Republican party if that rule was ever implemented.",
"you are correct, rogan and people of reddit are dumb",
"[ **Jump to 00:17 @** Great Nations Eat TV Commercial, Germany for America](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5m9sRC2kEA&t=0h0m17s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Big Homie, Video Popularity: 90.84%, Video Length: [33])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@00:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5m9sRC2kEA&t=0h0m12s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"Joe Rogan fell for the one in his native language though.",
"Sure, poverty isn't getting worse because of immigration. Imigration is a net positive for the economy. Poverty is getting worse because rich people get richer instead of poor people getting less poor.",
"The US spends more on healthcare then most other countries with universal healthcare. Double the average according to this [source](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/what-drives-health-spending-in-the-u-s-compared-to-other-countries/).",
"no hes saying poor americans are as well off as the average german",
"Im pretty sure the actress is german",
"Your broke worker asses aren't gonna feed anything if you don't work lol",
"And reddit",
">The retail side of Amazon is half of the company.\n\nAnd the overwhelming majority of their costs, which is why AWS is so profitable.",
"Joke",
"Conservatives will say this is proof of Biden's failing America when the Democrats are the only ones trying to pass an actual social security bill.",
"The actor??? Who’s Vice President? Jerry Lewis??",
"I really don't know. greatnationseat.org exists and gives no sign that I can find that it is a satire site. It's pretty skeletal, but other than that this is pretty subtle for satire.",
"> Think about how fucked up we are as a country that we are the richest nation the world has ever known but we have levels of poverty that shock NGO workers used to helping people in the developing world.\n\nThis is an absurd lie. The absolute worst poverty in the United States does not even come remotely close to that suffered in Haiti or Honduras or the mountainous areas of Peru. If you want to say that the U.S. should do better for its most vulnerable residents, great, but don't do that by making up absurdly false claims that anyone who has actually seen third world poverty would recognize as being completely full of crap.",
"Can I get back to you on those when I'm back from work? If you are really interested into aruging about the GFSI in the first place I would like to ask you to read the Methodology secion from their Site, which linked earlier. I was not able to find where the actual data comes from and how it is compared and weighted by their panel of experts.",
"What the fuck did you just say????!? How dare you correct him???!!!!!??111!",
"I actually don’t even get the joke.",
"the answer is it's old, not the term is wrong. That post should have been your first reply not snarky bullshit with how to google. That info is out of date and so is the video (which I already stated in another post). That is the real answer.",
"True, but insecurity is not lack of. No one's starving, it's all about quality of diet. Which is certainly a step up from starving, and something we can continue to improve upon.",
"Which is wrong on many levels.",
"It was obviously fake, not even Germany could afford fedding an American with the amount of food they eat.",
"Yeah, I LOVE that we're forced to work just to actually stay as a living being.",
"Alright buddy, you go take those fat homeless people to Ethopia and explain to the emaciated people living there that these obese Americans are starving. See what kind of looks you get\n\nNutrient deficiency is NOT hunger. Hunger is the absence of food.\n\nI'm well aware that the diet of the poor is not healthy and very much a problem.\n\nBut you and half the other people in this thread are misrepresenting the problem by acting like these people are going without food.\n\nAlso, I don't think you understand what calories are. Those fat homeless people aren't begging for money because their tummys are rumbling",
"> If you live in a city there's about a zero percent chance you're in a food desert.\n\nThis is completely false. Come to NYC, and I'll take you on a walking tour of some of the most barren food deserts you've ever seen.\n\n> I guarantee there is a grocery store with regular food for sale within a half hour's walk/bike/bus ride.\n\nThere may as well be a grocery store three blocks down. That doesn't mean it's affordable—even on food stamps.",
"The commercial never mentioned food scarcity, it mentions nutritious food rather.",
"Ah yes. All those farmers strikes throughout history, where the people who feed society stopped working to improve their conditions, literally killed off the species because we stopped being able to feed ourselves for a few weeks.",
"It was pretty common around the western world.\n\nThat said, I've never seen a law firm ad for it. That sounds weird. There was a widespread compensation campaign when the disease was discovered in Australia.",
"Yes, starving is generally understood to mean \"hungry with no food.\" Known more technically as food insecurity. You come along like Glenn Kessler to give out ten pinnochios because technically people aren't \"starving to death\" even though nobody ever said starving to death in the first place! \"ThEy aReN't LiTeRaLlY sTaRvInG\" is the dumbest thing you can contribute to this conversation. If you agree that this is a significant issue, maybe don't downplay it?",
"There it is.",
"Anti work is about 5% people who truly want to reform the way we work. The other 95% are the just people who think they deserve everything but shouldn't have to contribute.",
"Only 12% of the country, not 18%ish",
"Only 8% worked more than one job (pre pandemic), I've never seen such an ad.",
"You are saying overwhelming majority, but it's a simple 54% majority in terms of total profit. Can you explain why you keep using that term? Did I miss something in the report?\n\nI agree that AWS has incredible profitability, its revenue to costs ratio is extremely high, but to say \"overwhelming majority of Amazon profits\" is false, and to say the retail side is a 'pet project' is also false.",
"I’m bummed this is satire. The only way the US government will start paying for things other than guns and tanks is for other countries to look down on us. Hit them in their ego. Then maybe we’ll get some programs that actually benefit the citizens.",
"The us is fucking huge your first hand knowledge of a specific community doesn't give you more knowledge about other communities far away. Someone in california doesn't have any more access to knowledge about conditions in NY than someone in the UK.",
"It uses \"food insecurity\" without defining it, which leads people who don't know what that means to think food in America is hard to get.\n\nAs evidenced by the fact that one of the top comments on this thread says Americans are \"literally starving\" and has 500 upvotes.",
"> Pretty much no one in the United States is starving.\n>\n\nIf you mean that almost no one hasn't had access to food for full month, maybe. But millions of us are only able to afford one decent meal a day.",
"There is when it's the wrong kind of misinformation.",
"Thanks, this is now the 5th comment that assumes the same because I was so dumb and used the word \"know\". I don't use any social media besides reddit and that is surely not where I get actual information from.",
"Apparently, German satire is far beyond my understanding.",
"Reported for Misinformation",
"Alright, I won't use starving anymore. is \"hunger\" allowed?\nhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsroi4rRBMwrs9CIpJP4jiw\n\nIt's all connected with the shitty wages and poverty. And here the verdict is easy, USA is pretty much worst of the bunch of the OECD countries. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Poverty_Index",
">Poor people in the US are far more likely to be obese because of a lack quality options, not withering in the streets.\n\nI'm getting so fucking sick of hearing this. They are obese because they drink soda and eat junk every day. It's very cheap to buy chicken, rice, potatoes, veggies, eggs, bread, and dairy in the US. It's actually so cheap, that this is what I lived on for years when I could barely even make my rent. It's not that people don't have better options, it's that they want to eat junk. I will 100 fucking percent agree if you want to argue that they are being manipulated by advertising and junk-food sciences that make food junk food as addictive as possible though.",
">i don't know what you're talking about and i don't care\n\nDon't let reality get in your way buddy. Manifest your will upon the universe.",
"Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.",
"We aren't though. You can live without working. But society wouldn't exist without people working. So if you want the society we have...",
"Starvation is a severe deficiency in caloric energy intake, below the level needed to maintain an organism's life. It is the most extreme form of malnutrition. Starvation is a real thing and not an issue in developed nations. The US does not have a starvation issue. That is why the term food insecurity is used. When you use starvation when dealing with developed nations you are taking a term meant for severe malnutrition due to lack of food and misusing it. Stop using the word starving. It's not stupid, it's a fact and the reason people use hunger and food insecurity not starvation. People in Haiti are starving. Their issues are a whole degree different and a reason you don't fucking throw around that word like a moron to make the US look worse because of your bias.",
"So this was posted on /r/tiktokcringe yesterday and had some tiktoker saying the same thing *'Germany is running commercials to feed America'*. Ofc upon a single google search you'll find that of course they're not and it's a campaign to raise awareness of food insecurity in the US. Every comment on the video said as much... but OP doesn't give a shit, it sounds crazy, will get the upvotes so fuck it eh?",
"Yes, insults and name calling are the best way to win people over.",
"If government assistance = food insecurity, every Westerner is dealing with food insecurity given the way the US and EU subsidize food prices and the safety nets in both areas.",
"And I should care about this why exactly?",
"I'm sorry I use big word.",
"Lol",
"That’s better. Carry on sir",
"> in parts of the US\n\nlmao just dont move to california or new york dont act like its crazy throughout the whole country we are not a tiny nation\n\n2019 - 11.8% of the US population is living in poverty, which means they're earning below $25,750\n\n>What income is considered poverty in Germany?\npoverty rate at national poverty line for Germany was 14.8% In 2019, this was calculated as less than €1,074 ($1,271) each month = 15,252$\n\ncongrats america has less poor and our poor are richer",
"> But society wouldn't exist without people working.\n\nYeah, you can work BECAUSE you want to improve people's live, instead of just wanting to be alive. Remember that human society progress a lot AFTER we developed agriculture and have excess time and food.",
"They'll probably cool off with the military spending when China disintegrates in the near future and can't come close to keeping up in the quality of military tech.",
"Damn, well sad thing is, situation is so dire, most of us believe it.",
"Of course making a burger yourself will cost more than getting one from a burger chain that specializes in making a lot of burgers. The point is burger is neither healthy not cheap. Eating burger is luxury. You want to eat burger? No problem, but you have to work. If you are poor, forget burgers, eat healthy filling cheap foods such as what the pastor bought.\n\nI wont accuse or defend the person as his sermon was made in response to a documentary that I did not watch. Maybe in that documentary children ate chips as meals and then cried they are hungry. Maybe he went overboard, that guy is mental after all. None of that matters, what matter is that he is absolutely right. There are a great value healthy filling foods available everywhere for poor people. Of course there are also healthy foods that are expensive for rich people.",
"Hunger and the more accurate term is food insecurity which I provided info on. I even state multiple times it is an issue but we should have accurate numbers. That is all.",
">I don't want to work and expect to be taken care of.\n\nFuck off, you cancerous leech.",
"You can be upset at xenophobia without resorting to bodyshaming.",
"yea check out the Germany/Greece drama from a years ago to see what would actually happen here",
"I mean... That argument is moot in a lot of the eyes of /r/antiwork because they reject the society we have. Many people pushed into wage slavery and perpetual starvation wages dont necessarily want things to go on as planned.",
"Please send health insurance too!!",
"Too late...anyway, have you tried dmt?",
"LoL that was funny. Am I the only one who laughed??",
"You're a condescending twat aren't you?",
"I mean, large companies who underpay their employees in the US, provide guidance on how to receive aid from the government. The US is absolutely fucked.",
"The poverty line in the US is almost where the median salary is in the UK.\n\nGermany’s homeless rate is miles higher than that of the US, and Germany, despite having 1/4 the population, has more homeless people in absolute terms.\n\nEU countries also tend to have far higher rates of long-term unemployment.",
">The median household income in the US $65.7k\n\nThat would be [Gross Domestic Product per person, not median household income](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp). And by the same reckoning, Germany's number there is \t$49,548 (not $27,200) for per-person GDP.\n\nIn fact, [the median household disposable income for America was $34,514 in 2016.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income) Higher than Germany's (which was $27,569 so now I think your numbers are more out-of-date than the ones I found after fifteen seconds), but lower than for Norway and Switzerland. And certainly nowhere near sixty-five grand!\n\nSo if your opinion of poverty is based on faulty reading of the numbers, your world-view becomes faulty by the same quantifiable amount. If you're counting it in numbers. Which you seemed to be doing.\n\nLrn2Google.\n\nEDIT - [and from looking at the link this guy provided for the German numbers](https://i.imgur.com/VNdh7sr.png) - IT EVEN SAYS NET INCOME. And that's not the best bit. IT'S IN EUROS. The numbers weren't out of date... THEY WERE FOR A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MEASURE OF MONEY!\n\nGo to https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ILC_DI04__custom_1407622/default/table?lang=en and follow the screenshot bits in orange.\n\nHoly shit that's hilarious.",
"I know the limitations, but I've been saying for a couple years now that first world countries should start investing in farming infrastructure in third world countries. It would be an excellent source of raw goods for good prices. Could solve a lot of problems.",
"Op really just spreading false information for no reason",
"**[Disposable household and per capita income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income)** \n \n >Household income is a measure of the combined incomes of all people sharing a particular household or place of residence. It includes every form of income, e. g. , salaries and wages, retirement income, near cash government transfers like food stamps, and investment gains.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"it's always hard to feed all those those third world countries",
"Starvation is an extreme form of malnutrition you rarely see in developed nations, and when it happens it is not due to lack of access to food (typically mental illness or sickness). There is a reason I am using food insecurity. Can people please read what I stated including saying twice it is not something that should be ignored.",
"I hate work too, but the only answer is /r/financialindependece",
"I live in Alabama. This is not satire as far as I am concerned. The \"Black Belt\" in Alabama has the worst poverty of the developed world ([according to the UN](https://www.al.com/news/2017/12/un_poverty_official_touring_al.html)).",
"How is it an anecdote? Being a single parent is not unlikely, the starting wage in this region where she is renting is exactly that, the average rent for a one-room apartment is exactly that. It's the opposite of an anecdote: it's a reasonable scenario, that allowed only ramen noodle food budget and no money for clothes, medical, etc.",
"Per capita via... What metric? Per capita at county level? I imagine there are massive discrpencies regionally that will get balanced out in the wash. Bougie, high end private hospitals are going to compensate for many that have to send their patients even further due to lack of reaources locally.",
"🤣 go to work do your job I'm not working my fucking ass off to feed you. Youre all pissed about this but don't realize you're doing the same shit to everyone else. I'm all for respectful pay but you can't expect to be taken seriously at all being \"antiwork\" and yeah it's ridiculous to be asked to help feed the people if you're the one that needs feeding, but that's why it's your choice. The irony is that you think the same as bezos in a way. I hope you find a job you enjoy that pays you well and maybe some sort of work ethic with it.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nP.S why do people delete their comments when there is the slightest sign of confrontation this ruins any attempt at discussion",
"The mental illness leaking from that sub hurts my brain. \n\nYou're a VERY dumb person. Just the absolute dregs of society.",
"How do you think amazon avoids tax? Hint; by hiding profits \n\n>Amazon had sales income of €44bn in Europe in 2020 but paid no corporation tax\n\n>Despite lockdown surge the firm’s Luxembourg unit made a €1.2bn loss and therefore paid zero corporation tax\n\n>“Amazon’s revenues have soared under the pandemic while our high streets struggle, yet it continues to shift its profits to tax havens like Luxembourg to avoid paying its fair share of tax. These big digital companies all rely on our public services, our infrastructure, and our educated and healthy workforce. But unlike smaller businesses and hard-working taxpayers, the tech giants fail to pay fairly into the common pot for the common good.\n\nFuck amazon and its idiotic apologists.\n\nhttps://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/may/04/amazon-sales-income-europe-corporation-tax-luxembourg",
"Lol. The US has a piss poor reputation when it comes to foreign aid. That you don't like that fact isn't my problem.\n\nGoogle it for yourself if you don't believe me.",
"Too late Jamie has already pulled that shit up",
"> Show me something of equivalent caloric value that’s cheaper and healthier than anything off the dollar menu at McD’s.\n\nChicken thighs, potatoes, rice, frozen veggies, bread, etc.. It's all just as cheap or even cheaper since you are buying more at a time and preparing it yourself.\n\nNo one is going to McDonald's for the caloric value you get from a $1 chicken sandwich. They are there either because it's convenient, or they have a craving.",
"Not per capita.",
"A very very very very very small portion of the US is actually starving (and a majority of those cases would be because of mental illness) let's not be silly.",
"The irony of all of this is that food/commodity scarcity is being caused in no small part by the Great Resignation itself as assembly lines, farms, farm equipment manufacturers, docks, and transporters are being abandoned by their workers. I'm all for higher wages and better working environments, but we're all essentially engaging in a hunger strike we never asked to join, and the end goal seems to be turning less into fighting for better wages and more \"lol I don't want to work anymore but also let's fuck with rich people by not working because me not working only effects them and not the larger social net that everyone's work contributes to.\"",
"Food stamps are *not* a good solution to reducing poverty. But the US government struggles to deal with the people at the bottom, so it's better than nothing.\n\nJust a side effect of having such a large population. People slip through the cracks.",
"Now, THAT is how you grow a revolution folks",
"Reddit is 10x more gullible than Rogan",
"Unnecessary inflated prices though",
"I know, reason is moot in the eyes of antiwork users who unironically use terms like “wage slavery” not understanding that nobody is a slave and “perpetual starvation wages” not understanding that nobody is starving. It's no wonder they don't like society, they aren't even in the same reality as everyone else.",
"Do you think that this doesn't happen in the EU?",
"What exactly would you recommend as an alternative? \n\n\nYou have access to infrastructure and food which you did not build nor grow. You would prefer not to compensate those who did?\n\n\nYou have access to shelter and utilities, all of which require other human being to erect and maintain, should they do that for you for nothing?\n\n \n“Work” is a simplification of the barter and trade system, for a complicated society. The money you earn takes the place of whatever collateral you would trade for the things you need or desire. \n\n\nWorking is not the problem. The dynamic and inequality of the working class and the elite class is the issue.",
"If Alabama were a country their GDP per capita would be higher than Britain..\n\nhttps://yellowhammernews.com/which-countrys-economy-compares-to-alabamas/",
"A meal from McDonald’s costs 9 dollars and a meal of brown rice vegetables and chicken cooked at home costs 1.50. We just have 49 million idiots here in America.",
"Depends on where you want to draw the line: in this case, the statistics are true (or just shy of), but the charity evidently isn't. So which is more problematic to you?",
"Yeah because the DNC doesn't spread misinformation...\n\n1. Pulling out of Afghanistan will wipe the Kurds off the face of the Earth. It will be genocide.\n\n2. Trump killing Soleimani will start WW3.\n\n3. Trump is rigging the election by taking mailboxes and mail delivery cars off the street.\n\n4. We're all going to die from climate change in 20 years.\n\n5. Russia-gate\n\n6. Censoring people talking about the lab leak theory.\n\n7. Biased \"fact checkers\"\n\n8. Censoring Hunter Biden stories before the election, claiming them to be misinformation when it turns out it was real.\n\n9. The countless biased headlines, purposely misleading hit pieces, omission of facts, and everyday pushing of an agenda, by all left-wing news media.\n\nDon't sit here and pretend it's only Republicans doing this.",
"Let's use some pretend numbers. Amazon's total revenue is now $100. Their total profit is now $10. \n\nAWS Earns $12, of which $5.40 is profit and $6.60 is cost.\n\nThe rest of the company earns $88, of which $4.60 is profit and $83.40 is cost.",
"Bro what the hell lol retail is not a pet project just because it's not generating as much revenue. It is still enormous and they have revolutionized supply chain forever",
"See, I assumed it was satire, but the bit at the end about \"more Americans than Germans\" threw me. Sometimes, I think satire actively *tries* to be misleading. I know for a fact that there are countless right-wing \"satire\" sites that keep it very secret that they're satire, and sell every article as straight as possible.",
"Yay fuck Jeff besis for giving us the ability to buy stuff online why we sit on our asses not working.",
"this post, and the comments below it, are exactly why this site has become complete garbage. What an absolute shitshow.",
"The name antiwork is misleading; they're not just trying to stop altogether. They are against working in the current circumstances.",
"> What exactly would you recommend as an alternative?\n\nEveryone not starving and getting proper food even if they're not working for starters.",
"r/birdsarentreal",
"Need two months tent upfront and moving fees for a truck. Time off work. Gas money. Pay someone for heavy lifting help. \n\nTotally free.",
"Yeah just like you organized the general strike on October 15. You ain't organizing shit. \n\nhttps://organizing.work/2019/08/no-more-fake-strikes/",
"This guy probably doesn't know that Bezos isn't CEO of Amazon anymore lol.\n\nAnd it's not like every single farmer on earth went on strike, or that's the source of all food in the country, or preservation doesn't exist. Why would a farmer strike kill everyone?",
"Easy: apples and oranges. The number you're using for Germany is OEDC's median DISPOSABLE income IN EUROS, purchasing power after taxes and transfers. But then for the US you used the median GROSS income IN US DOLLARS.\n\nYou forgot taxes exist. And different currencies.",
"note to self ten years ago: do not wonder what it would be like to see those commercials from the opposite perspective...",
"$20 a day..... $20 a day is all it takes to feed these starving children Chik-fil-a. For the cost of 7 episodes of Project Runway on Apple TV, you can feed these poor souls.",
"> nobody is starving.\n\nI'm laughing at the fact you're using this unironically. You're literally too high up and can't see what's on the bottom.",
"This has way more to do with the politicians you’re putting into office that bezos",
">Wechsel\n\nHmm... hungry for a change makes sense in English... I don't feel like I would say that in German. I once read friggen Dan Brown book in German.(Angels & Demons) It was so obviously translated from English.\n\nI dunno. I haven't lived in Germany for like 20 years. Maybe this is a thing now.",
"Food deserts are a real problem in the US (and in other countries too). Where do you buy the chicken and veggies if you don't have a grocery store anywhere near you.\n\nFor example, this county in Virginia didn't have a grocery store within a thirty minute *drive.* Many poor people are not just poor in terms of money (maybe they can't afford a car), but poor in terms of time (got kids and work shifts? How can you afford to take two hours out of your week to go shopping?)\n\n[https://www.smithfieldtimes.com/2021/08/10/grocery-store-coming-to-surry/](https://www.smithfieldtimes.com/2021/08/10/grocery-store-coming-to-surry/)\n\nEdit: the area only has a Dollar General or 7Eleven within a walk/short drive. Good luck finding fresh healthy food there.",
"You mean Uncle Rogan? The one who leaves the family Christmas early because his vegan niece won't eat his elk meat stew?",
"Lustig, sehr lustig. Und man sagt, dass Deutsche keinen Humor haben.",
"It’s a scientific fact that the poorer you are in America, the father you are.",
"But are they really wrong….?",
"It can be better bro.",
"It probably happens to some degree.\n\nIs it the biggest companies in the country such as Walmart though?\n\nGun crimes also happen sometimes in the EU, if you want to keep using that logic.",
"The data is collected from the Economist Intelligence Unit Database, the WHO, the WTO, the FAO, and the World Bank. \n\nSource: JRC Science Hub\nhttps://ec.europa.eu/jrc\nEUR 28885 EN\nPDF ISBN 978-92-79-76681-7 ISSN 1831-9424 doi:10.2760/83356",
"And yet somehow the poverty in Alabama is greater than in the rest of the developed world. It's almost like GDP isn't a good indicator for the actual day-to-day lives of the working class.",
"Striking on black Friday -> stores close -> everyone shops online -> Amazon and Jeff bezos make more money",
"Everyone is getting bent because it's made-up.\n\nJust the fact that it's plausible is what should disturb people.",
"Yes, but this fails to account for social services.\n\nThe amount of rent assistance alone can falsify these numbers a **LOT** for certain countries if you try to base your conclusion solely on cost of living and median wage.\n \nLet alone the issue that poor people usually have above average medical bills because of worse education and more physically taxing jobs which causes healthcare to be a big factor as well.",
"Sure, but what is the point to make with that data? Retail always had tight profit margins.",
"Its not far from the truth with Record Unemployment and over a year and a half of a poor economy due to lockdowns and poor leadership addressing the Covid Virus.",
"Then I think you're misunderstanding the satire. It's mocking the US for not taking care of our own children. We always pretend like we are the greatest country in the world and everyone else needs us to save them, while we neglect millions of starving children here. \n\nShowing an overweight child would be a separate and lazy \"Americans are fat\" joke.",
"You've picked a shitty hill to die on, friend.",
"man you are desperately trying to drag that out- how many nightmares about sirens and mermaids did you have to suffer to get here?",
"It is literally by definition an anecdote. God, you're unbearable. Just admit you are arguing about something you have no context on.",
"They’ll learn and grow up on their own someday. Or they won’t and we’ll see them running a patreon and asking people to crowd fund their rent. Either way they’ll just be the latest set of goobers to loudly declare that they are going to overthrow the system only to end up accomplishing absolutely nothing.",
"I was going to say \"at least they don't have a platform to broadcast it to millions of people\" but...they kinda do.",
"The fact that you would use that site as a source for literally anything besides the weather in major Alabama cities is beyond me lmao.",
"Who is starving in America? We have food insecurity, yeah, but that's about quality and repetition of diet. We don't measure hunger because starvation is so acutely rare. Even in the great depression people didn't really starve to death.",
"Yeah, potable water is pretty much a given in the USA. You would have to work hard to find water that you can't just drink from a public water system. \n\nHell you shouldn't even drink the water in Bangkok.",
"Proof this is satire? The video has an adforum watermark. This isn't MadTV. https://www.adforum.com/",
"In addition to food deserts, another issue with eating healthy when you're poor is the work required to make a meal. Buying fresh, healthy ingredients means preparing them and using them before they go bad. When I was growing up all my meals came out of a can or the freezer, because both of my parents worked graveyard shifts in a factory for poverty wages. They always tasted the same, they never went bad, and could be made quickly. \n\nIf your life is consumed by poverty, convenience is alluring.",
"you are the one dying. Maybe it is of starvation. Did you miss one meal? Oh dear god you have starvation!\n\nFor a real answer, when dealing with statistics it is really fucking important to get the terms right. 20% of the US is not starving. Not even in the same ballpark. It is not a shitty hill. It is directly refuting an ignorant statement and making sure we understand the real situation. If we were dealing with someone just saying \"damn I am starving\", yeah, I understand that is hyperbole. Yet when someone claims 20% of the US is starving you can't just let that go. That paints a horribly inaccurate assessment of a really important issue.",
"Another idiot OP who believes anything on the internet. Then you turned around and whored yourself for Karama. How sad lol",
"He is a victim of the white supremacist media",
"Anybody who believes this was a serious ad doesn't have enough nutrients in their diet.",
"k.",
"Any society will need people to do labor. It's just that work doesn't need to be so exploitative and abusive.",
"In vino veritas",
"> food insecurity\n\n\"*The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) defines food insecurity as a lack of consistent access to enough food for an active, healthy life.*\"\n\nYeah I'm gonna stop you there before you go on denying more reality.\n\nOh look what I found! \"t is important to know that though hunger and food insecurity are closely related, they are distinct concepts. Hunger refers to a personal, physical sensation of discomfort, **while food insecurity refers to a lack of available financial resources for food at the household level.**\"",
"Well, that is what the name of the sub implies",
"You are aware that an area can be \"rich\" while it's citizens are poor right? This is like assuming that if you live in america you're rich. It's no more right to say if you live in UK you're rich, or to say if you live in Africa you're poor. GDP is an average, and millionaire and billionaires skew that average way up. There is millions of millionaires in the states those people cause the GDP of poorer states to go up should they live there, not only that there's lots of towns that are basically owned by one person/family, so while that town may be booming the people doing all the work aren't.",
"It'd hurt Democrats far worse. Pro-Republican messaging gets downvoted whether it's true or not on reddit, so no one sees it. Pro-Democrat information gets upvoted whether it's true or not on reddit, so banning misinformation would only actually censor left wing rhetoric.",
"You're exactly the guy who intentionally misrepresents facts or data to make grossly exaggerated or incorrect statements.",
"As opposed to \"hey I read something on a social media platform and EVERYONE on there seems to believe it so how dare you provide evidence to the contrary\"",
"It's time we finally recognize that we're intentionally creating a third world country within our borders.",
"People who have been diagnosed with Mesothelioma have many questions. How did I get this disease? What are my treatment options?",
"There's like 50 other subs you can be edgy in hating America, stick to those please.",
"Here's an observation: you sound like an asshole.",
"Right but *how* do you do this? \n\n\nWho provides this food? \n\n\nSome should work while the others do nothing, but are given the product of their labor?\n\n\n\nI hate going to work as much as anyone. I’d prefer to spend the time with my kids, or playing video games, banging my wife, anything. But my working solves issues for others who are in turn solving issues for more people with their work. And in return I am compensated with the means to do and get what I want and need. \n\n\nDo we need to fix the *entire* system of debt and wage slavery, the severe under-compensation of the work force, and the ever widening gap between a small percentage of the population and the working class? Absolutely. \n\n\nBut can a civilization continue to exist and *no one* work? I do not see a way.",
"HAHAHAHAHAHA\n\nBHAHAHAHAHAHA\n\nYou thinking that a very large chunk of Reddit is Joe rogan's target audience........ Riiiight...... Because liberal Reddit is just so full of Joe Rogan lovers......\n\n\nSounds more like to me that your comment is even more stupid because clearly shit tons of people from both sides fell for this very same thing..... And this was just one tiny measly example......",
">Eating burger is luxury. You want to eat burger? No problem, but you have to work.\n\nI didn't know that americas bar for luxury was below being able to eat a burger now and then. What exactly is it about a burger that makes it a luxury product in first would countries?\n\nWierd also how in my country fast food isn't cheaper than making it myself. Does McDonalds not specialize in mass production in europe? Only in the US?\n\nAnother claim to talk about is \"if you want burgers you have to work\"? That somehow clashes with the notion that burgers are luxury. The majority of poor people DO work. They are probably working MORE on average than well off office people like me are.\n\nHaving a healthy balanced diet isn't easy. Especially when you don't have much time and funds to spare. Getting into cooking has a huge upfront cost, even if you can break down the cost of spices over the many meals to reach a \"cheap alternative\", you still have to pay that upfront.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n&#x200B;\n\nAnd you are actually defending that dude. Calling him crazy but then going on about how he is right. Spreading his video around despite not knowing what he is referring to.",
"Strikes that can't achieve any level of significant workforce commitment are actually harmful. They sow disillusionment among working people as to their efficacy, and get individual people fired for little to no gain. The best way to organize strikes is to unionize, and consolidate those unions into trade unions.",
"Thank you.",
"> others do nothing\n\nYou assume that as long as people get food, they do nothing. If that was the case, then society will literally stop progressing ages ago.\n\nHuman always want more stuff, either for themselves or for the good of others. What I'm suggesting is that if they choose to paint as a hobby, they didn't have to die of starvation before people buying their paintings.\n\nWhat I want is everyone getting enough food. Am I evil for suggesting the bare minimum for living?",
"This is absolutely true for one portion. However this is a long term problem. You can take your family of 4 to McD three times a day to get something from the dollar menu to spend 84 dollars per week or you can buy ingredients to make proper meals for your family.\n\nNow I am not familiar with McD menu, but quick search showed me that you can get a cheeseburger or mcchicken for dollar which is cca 300kcal. So to get to the recommended daily 2kcal intake you would have to spend 7 bucks a day per person per week. Thats just short of 200 bucks a week to get healthy food for a family of 4. Would it be as tasty as McD? No, it wouldnt.",
"I feel like there's a fine line between satire and misinformation. The line ceases to exist when you can't tell the difference.",
"I mean, it’s not like it’s hugely populated. It’s a food desert for a reason, only 350 people live there.",
"The fact that an american doesn't realize it's satire it's incredibly hilarious, sad and makes 100% sense on how the situation really is",
"The point is that if you eliminated Amazon's retail side, Bezos would probably still be fine.",
"Unpopular opinion: If I was smart and rich enough to be able to start a multi-million/billion dollar corporation, and smart enough to know how to use tax havens, I would too. They exist, and using them is penalty free. Don't hate the player, hate the game.\n\n(If anyone can't tell, this post is meant to rile you up and point you to the people you **should** be mad at. Hint: you elected them.)",
"I've been seeing young, able-bodied people on handling in my city with signs like, \"No work anything helps\" and stuff like that. There is no chance they can't find work right now. Every single place in my city is hiring, and at good wages too. Several are advertising that they hire on the spot. Even my local subway is hiring at like $15/hr. That's more than I made starting out as a mortgage processor with a master's degree.....$30k a year is definitely enough for a single person to live on in my city at least. I know because I've done it and did for years lol it's tight but you can definitely do it. And now that I'm making twice that as a business analyst I really appreciate what I have.",
"> We always pretend like we are the greatest country in the world and everyone else needs us to save them, while we neglect millions of starving children here.\n\nSigh - Time for this one again - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIpKfw17-yY",
"It probably happens to a larger degree. EU countries typically give more government aid than the US. Several EU countries don't even have a minimum wage.",
"Redditors? As Joe Rogan’s target audience??? In what reality exactly??? All of the popular, front page subreddits are full of alt-left extremists.",
"Sad Facebook transferees can’t understand this joke.",
"I mean the commercial isn't wrong",
"There is a time commitment to cooking meals. It doesn’t take hours, but it’s still time, which is usually the limiting factor in life.\n\nIn a vacuum, cooking quality meals is not difficult or overly time consuming. But the extremely poor of America don’t *just* have to cook meals. They have to find reliable transportation, they have to find child care, they have to find work, they have to find health care…\n\nBeing perpetually poor is a result of poor choices, but those poor choices compound (sometimes incredibly quickly) and it becomes overwhelming to manage that much chaos. Even a perfectly adjusted adult would struggle to climb themselves out of deep poverty, much less anyone who doesn’t have (for whatever reason) good life skills.\n\nIn short: Yes, lots of poor people are just grabbing the tasty shit and they’re obese because of it. But I think most people would struggle to stay sane, much less fit, in their circumstances. It’s important to have empathy.",
"Nah, if a person is on food stamps they aren't facing food insecurity, the system is working as intended to make sure they are getting assistance. Yet they are being considered as facing \"food insecurity\" because they are on government assistance, and how are subsidies keeping prices low for consumers to ensure access to food not an extension of the social safety net? You want to debate the necessity of these programs and whether a better solution can be found? Fine, that's fair game. The programs working is not a sign of failure though, and they can't be looked at in a vacuum as there's more at play here than just food stamps programs.",
"If America stopped paying countries for the privilege to be the world's military, all of those funds could be re-directed back to social programs at home.\n\nA large reason that many places in the world can afford these programs is because of the savings they get from the reduced military and the US aid they receive in return.",
"Conservatives in America only care about unborn children. Once born, they are on their own.",
"You just listed a bunch of gqp insane lies and MORONIC conspiracy theories.",
"> it seems like our programs are doing a decent job. \n\n-someone that never wanted for nothing.",
"That's a ridiculous point to make. \"If you reduced the company's revenue by 85% and profit/growth by half, it'll still be fine!\" like what?",
"We all work to enrich our corporate masters",
"I suppose this make sense if your brain has been turned to mush by religion and capitalism.",
"Nope. Just the absolute total, which is higher than every other country by a lot.",
"If you eliminated Amazon, Bezos would still be fine. I'm sure he's diversified enough of his wealth away from Amazon",
"We hate Joe Rogan now, don't we boys!",
"It's kind of funny because that's exactly what you're doing right here by calling him out like this while not explaining what exactly he's misrepresenting or exaggerating.",
"There’s a larger overlap between Rogan fans and Redditors than Redditors would like to admit.",
"But... That doesn't mean the people aren't poor. There are business making money, that doesn't mean their employees aren't living in poverty.",
"Yeah, that's basically Joe Rogan's target audience.",
"So many in recent years seem to have been \"called\" by middle-class people with no real connection to actual labour workers. Not to mention the tendency for such people to coopt labour unions. I don't think that it's a deliberate attempt to demoralise labour workers, but I think it has definitely done so unintentionally.",
"It's satire right?... I don't believe for a a second someone thinks Travis Scott is trans.",
"It’s also worth noting that it’s the number of people that had a lack of access to a quality diet *at some point during 2020*, not necessarily as a persisting problem for them. Given the number of people put out of a job in spring 2020 I’m kind of surprised the number isn’t higher.",
"I like this take but couldn't the argument be that some obesity comes from a special American brand of poverty where communities only have access to processed foods.\n\nI guess it's a little bit of a stretch being that it's availability vs scarcity.",
"Yeah but about the fucking strings... all US aid comes with so many strings they become ropes and nooses.",
"Thank goodness. I was like \"Dang. Did I just get In The Arms of an Angeled?\"",
"Nah, Europeans know how to live. Hence this ad. \n \nI'm talking about shitty American culture. The kind that makes people superficial, lacking in common sense, preoccupied with materialism and overly self-absorbed (at an individual but also at a human level). The kind of culture that stifles human connection in favor of feigned politeness and that pays lip service to great humanitarian values while lost in the navel gazers fantasy of altruistic heroism. \nBasically the shitty culture that produces the highest levels of food waste on the planet as well as the poorest, hungriest, and least educated people in the first world.",
"I wish every country would do this, lol. It may help if the world is making fun of us.",
"Hilarious really. Finally someone is stepping in to help poor American families.",
"I say it is a good thing. Keep airing it.",
"I couldn't imagine being this fucking unaware.",
"Great logic. Just say everything is a lie so you can easily dismiss an argument without actually arguing. Why didn't I think of that?",
"You can save your \"alt\" designation for the teabaggers, thanks.",
"Lmao, you're right, you don't work your ass off to feed anyone. Barely any of the money that gets taken from you goes towards that.",
"Here it is.\n\n>Median household income- what the median family brings home a year\n\n>US: $65.7k\n\nNo it's not. That's not NET earnings, take-home after tax. That's GROSS earning, before Federal Income tax. No amount of you getting that wrong will make it so.\n\nHave you ever even had a paycheck?\n\nAnd again - THE GERMAN NUMBERS ARE IN EUROS, NOT US DOLLARS.",
"Why can't someone be a liberal and like Joe Rogan?",
"China made a video like this too lol",
"The collaboration of State and Capital is entrenched enough i don't see the important.",
"I've used those programs and they do do a great job. We kept our kids and us eating well through the lean times",
"Woah, more people die from a disease than being crushed in a mob rush? Damn, that's deep and informative.",
"It's too bad the mods of this sub don't have the ability to put either a sticky comment, or maybe a flair, or maybe even delete the post. It's sad that Reddit doesn't allow those things.",
"Of course they are! They said \"Great nations eat\". However, eating for free is communism! /s",
"I mean, you're going to need a citation for a claim like that. I know a number of Scandinavian countries lack a minimum wage, but this is due to them using a much different system of collective bargaining within each industry, perpetrated by massive unions.",
"[Cool another agenda poster. Who'd have thunk.](https://i.imgur.com/N3h3h0z.jpg)",
"Seems a bit disingenuous to say the US has a “piss poor reputation” of giving foreign aid when they are #1 BY FAR in terms of total amount given. You seem to want to focus on very specific metrics like GNI and/or per capita in an attempt to skew that figure through a biased lens, which is your prerogative, but to say the US contributing 50% more than the second most donator makes for a poor reputation is just laughable.",
"Can she give us her consultation fee so that we can be fed already?! /s",
"If by \"work hard\" you mean \"take a flight to Flint, Michigan\", maybe.",
"Ok buddy.",
"r/AteTheOnion",
"I've seen very little of this. I think this is more of a blanket statement people thoughtlessly throw out.",
"I've seen sentiment myself that includes actually stopping work in favor of automation and technology doing the work for us.\n\nThere are many people in the anti work community who believe in a utopia where they can sit at home and watch cartoons all day.",
"Yes, but again, that is for all households as a whole and not \"the poor\" who have more frequent/bigger basic spendings in the long run.\n\n> [Disadvantaged workers are more likely to generate higher health care costs from their increased risk\nof illnesses.](https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/49116/2000178-How-are-Income-and-Wealth-Linked-to-Health-and-Longevity.pdf)\n\nThe data has it's merit, I am not fighting that.\n\nBut I am saying it is useless for a discussion about the economical inequality in the society of different countries.",
"Fuck op",
"That's a difficult situation considering they are effectively their own countries and not part of the us.",
"Yeah, that’s a convenient narrative, but the Military Industrial Complex feeds off of the very spending that you’re referring to. Lobbyists buying military programs and manufacturing international conflict is how they drive the need for the levels of militarism that we think is normal. It is decades long “Make Work” process that leads to this imbalance and why traditional manufacturing was outsourced to other countries.",
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage",
"That's just not true.",
"The US donates half to one third per capita in comparison to the the other developed countries, just over a quarter of wat the UN recommends (although only a few countries hit that 0.70% GNI mark).",
"You honestly think that if a person in the US has a job that's advertised at $65,700 an hour they actually had that amount to spend after taxes during the year? And you think the exchange rate is parity for the two currencies?!?\n\nI mean: I know you say you're done, but you actually have based an opinion you have on having no idea what taxes and money that doesn't have 'dollar' on are! [This may help with the taxes part.](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/what-is-gross-pay) For the currency part I recommend travel.\n\nEDIT - \"I’m done\". [Reddit Tennis.](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Reddit%20Tennis) Setting it to 10 answers, I think he's good for it. He certainly doesn't look done...!",
"> Shouldn't there be a rule against spreading misinformation?\n\nWould there be like a central comity that would decide what is the truth and what is misinformation?",
"Yeah, was probably an addict. I don't really care if you believe it, but I know I saw it.\n\nSeen some horribly sad things in the US too; just watching a homeless person drinking rainwater from a puddle on the street in Grands Boulevards just 300m east of St Lazare in Paris isn't one of them......",
"Not for the vast majority no...",
"I don't think. It is satire",
"I’ll tell how we fix it. We add 12 million illegal immigrants.",
"It's easy to let the aestethics get in the way of pragmatism. Yes, taking action against the corrupt system is cool and what we should do, but strikes are only cool when they work. If you want to change things, you should organize locally first.",
"My god, the projection is almost too much. \"literally by definition an anecdote.\" ? Holy shit. Just google the definition of an anecdote. Here, I'll help:\n\n\n\n>a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person.\n\n\nThis is neither a real incident nor a real person. It's a hypothetical and representative single parent, meant to serve as a teaching example. Clearly, the point is absolutely wasted on idiots like you.",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANYkbKmglWU",
"You keep using that word; _anecdote_.\n\nI do not think it means what you think it means.",
"Funny, it looks like Australia ranks far below the US in food security. Maybe commercials aren't the trustworth news source that they've led me to beleive they are?\n\nhttps://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/Index",
"Yeah let's not bring race into this please.",
"I understand the satire and find it amusing, but I downvote posts with significantly false or misleading titles",
"To be honest, even the 7/11 style convenience stores have fruit and vegetable options if you want them. At least the ones I’ve been to in several different states.\n\nI’m not saying that some of this doesn’t exist, but there is also some truth in people not wanting those options and instead making the decision to get fast or processed food because it’s easier, tastier, etc. There is a lot of truth to saying people would rather buy a frozen burrito and bag of chips with a soda instead of a salad with chicken, an apple/orange, and a bottle of water. 7/11 has all of those options and they’d cost close to the same, but one is significantly easier and tastier to people so they make their choice accordingly.",
"I have, actually. I've also seen some pretty horrible conditions in Appalachia. But nothing in either of those compares to what I have seen in Central and South America.",
"What? I conceded \"starving\". Hunger is still bad, no?",
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartz_concept#Hartz_IV",
"As if people wouldn't fall for it here. Reddit is rife with misleading content",
"It may be a minority of revenue, but it’s significant majority of profit. A lot of the retail stuff has basically always been a loss leader, or cash flow neutral.",
"> [Publicly traded companies constitute less than 1 percent](https://www.nber.org/digest/apr07/changing-business-volatility) of all U.S. firms and about one-third of U.S. employment in the non-farm business sector.\n\nNot only GDP, but the Stock Market. A whopping 1% of US businesses are publicly traded and only about 56% of Americans own stock. Yet when you turn on any news station for 10 minutes, that's what you'll hear about, the GDP and Stock Market.\n\nIt's stupid.\n\nAnd Alabama, an economy based on processing chickens and Federal funding in the form of military bases and government contractors.",
"There are definitely more things it could pay for, but it already pays for low income food assistance. SNAP and Free/Reduced Cost school lunches have been a thing for decades.",
"Those countries should certainly deny the aid, then.",
"It all comes down to the definition of food insecurity. I was just using the definition used in the linked article. \n\nI guess it could be a measure of independent food security, although your subsidies example does bring that into question for everyone. \n\nI do agree that if people are able to maintain healthy nutrition from external sources then there isn't really a problem. Ideally, everyone would be able to survive without government assistance but that's a lot harder to accomplish and there will always be some who need assistance. \n\nI will admit, the article's separation of low food security and very low food security does kind of show the difference you are talking about. The people who are receiving external support are more likely to face food insecurity than those who do not need external support. I would hesitate to count subsidies as external support since they are universal.",
"Isn’t satire supposed to be funny?",
"I had a car but other than that I gave away all my possessions and moved. Finding a place to rent+gas money it cost me under 1500.\n\n\n\nSee the difference between what you're saying and what others are saying is that you insist on maintaining a certain standard of living rather than lowering those expenses to get into a better situation.",
"How can Americans be morbidly obese and also starving?",
">This is like assuming that if you live in america you're rich.\n\nThis is actually a common sentiment. A ***LOT*** of people think that poor Americans are still \"rich\" because in absolute terms, poor Americans have more money than, say, poor Nicaraguans.\n\nThey don't seem to grasp the concept that America has an exponentially higher cost of living than most other nations.",
"Then tell me what it means. Please google the [definition](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/anecdote) and apply it to this story that is neither a real incident nor a real person. It's a hypothetical and representative single parent, meant to serve as a teaching example. Clearly, the point is absolutely wasted on idiots like you.",
"I take it you don't claim any tax credits or rebates yourself? You pay tax anyway on tax exempt purchases?",
"That's definitely a problem but that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about whether people are facing food insecurity.",
"You turned entirely hostile towards me. Instead of making an argument for yourself you focus on attacking every part of mine without any coherency left.\n\nThe argument is that healthy food is too expensive, leading to US citizens to buy cheap unhealthy food that leads to health problems down the line.\n\nPastor's counter argument is that there are cheap healthy foods. Foods that are not as tasty, but foods that are way more filling and healthier than any junk food. If people are not satisfied with the taste of these cheap healthy foods, then they are free to buy tastier healthy foods, however those will be more expensive. Of course thats alright if you work. If you work and you still cant afford tasty healthy food, then problem is with your income vs living expenses. Either find a better job, or do not get luxurious foods. The term \"luxury\" is of course subjective. For some luxury is double serving of rice for lunch, for others its a second beach summer house. The pastor used the term luxury for meat.\n\nThe pastor has radical views that I cannot tolerate, which is why I called him crazy, however he is simply correct in this issue. Just because I do not like him as a person doesnt change that fact.\n\nI very much doubt you can make one cheeseburger for less than a dollar, but if you can, than thats great and I encourage you to make your own instead of going to fast food chain.",
"Do you understand what the word extremist means?\n\nHere I'll help: it means out of the ordinary or expected. If all the front page subreddits are filled with left-leaning material, that's the norm here, not the extreme.\n\nSimilarly, the word \"alt\" isn't applicable to something that is in the majority. You're saying a bunch of words, but none of them are correctly defined in your head.",
"To be fair, the Germans aren't known for their humor so I could see how this would whoosh a lot of people.",
"Just wait until you see the U.S. adult literacy rate.\n\nI'm not kidding, some sources (like the U.S. Department of Education) say it's less than 50%",
"I assumed it was satire. I don't know if it's funny or sad that people think it's true.",
"Yeah, there is no way 5% of those people are realistic\n\nIt's way less",
"Just do it. But you won't, because yours get much more out of it than it costs.\n\nWar is one of your biggest exports, and it would be much harder to export it without bases like Ramstein.",
"If you really think Americans have more disposable income that they can use for *wants* compared to Germans you are not in tune with reality. \n\n\nJust the healthcare costs alone turn your cherry picked numbers upside down.",
"54% is not a huge majority.",
"The programs help a lot of people. Obviously not everyone but I didn't say they did a great job just a decent job. We could definitely do more.\n\nI'm sorry I've offended you but you know nothing about me so your statement is irrelevant. What improvements would you make to our programs?",
"Yes there are, and the number you gave for Germany includes taxes.\n\nThe number you keep quoting for the USA HAS ZERO TAXES FROM IT. THE NUMBER FROM YOUR LINK FOR GERMANY EVEN SAYS NET INCOME. IN A DIFFERENT CURRENCY TOO!!\n\nYou're comparing a pile of money that has had taxes taken from it (Germany) with a pile of different money that has been untouched (USA).\n\nYou even showed how you don't know the difference yourself - \n\n>Median household income- what the median family brings home a year\n\nMedian household income is GROSS INCOME. NOT what is brought home. Brought home is NET INCOME. \n\nhttps://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/household_income.asp\n\n>What Is Household Income?\n\n>Household income is generally defined as the combined [gross income](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossincome.asp) of all members of a household above a specified age.\n\nHey, that gross income was linked there. Let's look at that!\n\n>Gross annual income is the amount of money that a person earns in one year **before taxes** and includes income from all sources.\n\nSo as you see, median household income is specifically NOT what the median family brings home a year. They don't bring home the taxed amount. Your own attempt to define what Median Household Income for the US number you gave shows you don't know what it means.\n\nAnd also: EUROS ARE NOT DOLLARS!\n\nYour turn again.",
">It's kind of funny because that's exactly what you're doing right here by calling him out like this while not explaining what exactly he's misrepresenting or exaggerating.\n\n\nI love it when dumb people like you talk about themselves while thinking they are commenting on others lol",
"I understand that, but they still give significantly more than anyone else in terms of actual dollar amount. \n\nYou can say they should give more based on their population but to say they have a poor reputation in regards to foreign aid is frankly insincere and weakens credibility on the topic.\n\nEdit: no response, just a downvote. Proving my point for me I guess.",
"Ironically, obesity is a symptom of food poverty.",
"Didnt you know? The Republicans are trying to cover up for Hunter Biden? /s",
"Depends on what metric. We're pretty high on the list for bombs and billionaires but a bit lower for healthcare, public transportation, early childhood education, and individual happiness.",
"Reminds me that South Korea sends more Christian missionaries to the US than anywhere else because it's a 'country in crisis'.\n\nThis might not be a real ad, but it's message is a little too real. For an obesity epidemic, it's insane how many are going hungry. The mismanagement and waste of resources in the US is shameful.",
"1. Lol, wrong and no. Total nonsense.\n\n2. Why are we paying their national defense budget if we're so strapped we can't even eat.",
"Yes? Food insecurity isn't hunger. Hunger is when you don't have food and are starving. Food insecurity is when you have a diet with low nutritional value or a lack of variety in diet. It's when you can't buy a lot of different healthy foods, so you eat unhealthy food like fast food or processed foods and you don't have a varied diet so you eat the same thing often.",
"In that speech the one thing I disagree with is him saying young people are the “worst generation”. Young people aren’t responsible for the mistakes and messes they’ve inherited but they are stuck trying to clean that shit up.",
"Didn't Mercy actor die?",
"I was speaking more about free school lunches for kids and universal healthcare.",
"I can guarantee there aren’t many farmers is on r/antiwork lol",
"Lol, what a little bitch. Can’t even admit you’re wrong when you get schooled and just use a passive aggressive “k” so you can feel like you won. How pathetic.",
"Did you make an alt account just to defend Joe Rogan? Joe is that you?",
"[Philip Alston's official UN report.](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/1629536?ln=en) \n\nIt's worth noting as well that Philip Alston is the UN's Special Rapporteur on Extreme Poverty and Human Rights and is not just a random \"official\". He has carried out similar investigations in other countries including the UK and when he says he has never seen anything like this in the first world it should carry some weight.",
"So many dumb ducks are going to think this is true.",
"People definitely die of starvation in the US.",
"Actually, that's not enough. If you want to focus on pure economic growth and hit the 3% growth that Trump touted, we need many more immigrants.\n\n> VANEK SMITH: The first one is to find someone, anyone really, who can take the baby boomers' place. You need to find more workers. Once again, more workers make more stuff, provide more services and make the GDP go up.\n> \n> GOLDWEIN: That's exactly right. And so one of the tools that folks have discussed regarding the economy is more immigration. But for us to get 3 percent growth, we would basically need to double our immigrant population over the next decade. So in other...\n> \n> SMITH: Wait, double the existing immigrant population...\n> \n> GOLDWEIN: Double the...\n> \n> SMITH: ...Right now.\n> \n> GOLDWEIN: ...Existing immigrants. So in other words, immigrants today, that are here today, some of them have been here for as much as, let's say, 80 years, right? So we need to take the last 80 years of immigration and do it again in the next 10 years. If we roughly did that, if we roughly doubled the amount of immigrants, that could get us, in theory, something at least close to 3 percent growth.\n> \n> SMITH: Wait a minute. It sounds like you should get much more growth than 3 percent for that many people. We're talking about millions of people.\n> \n> GOLDWEIN: I mean, we're talking about 40 to 50 million people. But remember, we're an economy that's starting with about 350 million people. And also remember, we're not only having adult, working-age working immigrants, right? Immigrants would also include children and the elderly and people that eventually would become disabled or otherwise outside of the workforce. So it's not like we can pick people one by one and be secured that every single one of them is going to be a fast contributor to the economy.\n> \n> VANEK SMITH: Forty million immigrants does not sound like something that President Trump would support.\n> \n> SMITH: I mean, not only should you not build a wall at that point, but you should actually charter buses...\n> \n> VANEK SMITH: (Laughter).\n\nGreat episode: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/531957453",
"it actually kinda was, they filmed a lot of stuff on soundstages with green screens and sets & all the sound effects are foley work. The facts about the animals are real but the presentation involves a lot of smoke and mirrors.",
"Lol. America’s poor have a weight problem this is such propaganda. That’s why they invented the term “food insecurity.” Nobody is starving here. Lol",
"Gotta have incentives for the losers of society to go get a job. Nobody should be able to be a lazy fuck and still enjoy the benefits of society unless they have serious handicaps stopping them.",
"This is just one part of a real ad campaign meant to raise awareness of the conditions that millions of Americans live with every day. \n\n>[*\"Clips of wide-eyed, malnourished children followed by hollow pleas to help fight hunger in Africa are mainstays of prime-time television in the US. A campaign called Great Nations Eat is using these tropes to urge Americans to confront the hunger plaguing people in their own country.\"*](https://qz.com/473786/video-what-if-other-countries-saw-the-same-psas-about-hungry-americans-that-americans-see-about-them/)\n\n[**Great Nations Eat**](https://greatnationseat.org/) Website where you'll find information about food insecurity, poverty and maladies in Americans.",
"We're the shithole country now",
"WOAH FUCK I TOTALLY GOT OWNED! GUYS I CAN’T DEAL WITH IT! \n\nThe k was because it’s clear y’all like arguing semantics and not an actual issue like people being hungry. Fuck that noise.",
"I know this is fake, but have you ever wondered if other countries give the US money the same way the US gives money to other countries?",
"The obesity epidemic is a symptoms of the food shortage problem. The only food they can afford are the super unhealthy and cheap food. We throw money at war and just pretend these problems don't exist.",
"I'm going to participate by saving all of my money, and spending it on bills!",
"It's not German satire tho. It's from the US. [Here's an article (from 2015) about these spots](https://qz.com/473786/video-what-if-other-countries-saw-the-same-psas-about-hungry-americans-that-americans-see-about-them/).",
"Reddit is largely populated with far-left extremists. Just because the norm for Reddit is far left extremism does not mean that it is moderate when compared with the USA as a whole. Are you saying as long as extremists join together in pockets of extremism, they are no longer extreme because they’re mingling with other extremists? I mean, that is what you said, but is it what you meant?",
"Well this video is apparently from a few years ago, but anyway, you're thinking of the woman who voiced Mercy for the Brazilian Portuguese dub. She was murdered a few months ago.",
"fucking embarasing... but lets get another aircraft carrier.",
"Not only that, but the mods of the subreddit pull up interactions just like this one and make mod posts that basically say:\n\n\"For clarification - our subreddit is literally about a communist revolution. We are *only* interested in 'improving worker circumstances' as a stepping stone to destroying capitalism altogether.\"\n\nIt's hilarious to watch moderate liberals try to explain the /r/antiwork people away. Just like they try to explain away the 'defund the police' people. \n\n\"They may be saying 'x', but they *ahctually* mean 'y'.\"",
"is it really 'edgy' to be furious about the conditions we're forced to live in while every other developed nation provides for its citizens? i think you're a little crazy if you *aren't* upset about the way things are here.",
"Reddit is 430 million times more people than Joe Rogan. I'm sure you can claim \"Reddit\" is a lot of things and cherry pick examples to support it...",
"yep. that is grade a boomer nonsense that he's speaking right there.",
"So then you agree it was random?",
"Lol \"pockets\". [Reddit has over 500 million active monthly users](https://thenextweb.com/news/reddit-surpasses-facebook-to-become-the-3rd-most-visited-site-in-the-us), with 49% of those being in the United States.\n\nIf the majority of everyone around you are agreeing on the same ideas, they are no longer the extremists or the alt, they are the norm. You're the extremist in this group, not everyone else.\n\nThe sooner you recognize that, the happier you'll be.",
"Honestly, what would change for a person who believes this or not? Like really? I see no different outcome really if person is aware of this campaign entirely, whether fake or not.",
"Considering how many different sources of revenue they have, it’s a pretty big slice of the pie.",
"while i dont believe you will succeed, i wish you the best of luck.",
"So, yeah, you’re confirming your status as “dumb fuck”. Cheers for owning up to it.",
"No but when you say that the people weren't actually facing food insecurity, they simply needed aid, it ignores what a massive number of people that is and how accepted it is within the most capitalist market in the world to have supplying a living wage, something that is government funded.",
"i'd be shocked if tens of thousands of people in the US were getting less than 50% of the calories they need each day for weeks on end due to poverty. but i would bet several thousand people have this issue. which is tiny compared to the 330M population. but still should be corrected. \n\nthis is probably an issue for hundreds of children, migrants, mentally unstable people, some prisoners, and elderly folks.",
"satirical or not, people here are starving and suffering. our government and the system has failed a lot of people and now we've got a lot of hungry people on our hands.",
"Wow, I wasn't expecting much but that was just ridiculous. You just called me a name, like a toddler, in response to statistics. \n\nFor what it's worth, at least I know how to read a dictionary.",
"Being over weight doesn't mean the person isn't in a bad situation. Access to cheap food usually includes high calorie, less nutritious foods like McDonald's.",
"The county as a whole has 7,000 people. In most countries an area of that size and population would have at least a small supermarket (many are run by cooperatives in the UK for example).",
"\"giant\"",
"The saddest part of this constant ignorant regurgitation is that no one baited by this will do a fucking thing to help anyone in their community. \n\n CLean up some trash, fill a food box, serve some dinners, smile and say hello. Then impress me with your benevolence…",
"When the US offer aid, if you deny it, it will be dropped on you in the form of freedom bombs.",
"> insist on maintaining a certain standard of living \n\nLike families in tight situations insisting on trying to take care of their kids. What idiots, right?",
"Got it bad for the the guy dont you.",
"Lol this is funded by greatnationseat.org which is not a satirical organization. \n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/\n\nInteresting that your literal misinformation campaign was immediately given a variety of Reddit awards to make your lies more visible.",
"Right, because enough food for everybody just falls out of the sky and is transported by the wind to where it needs to go.",
"in some other countries they don't make you lawyer up in old age to be compensated for a widely-acknowledged illness.",
"I was just trying to limit the scope of discussion a bit cause I don’t have a lot of time to discuss. I agree that low wages should be a company problem and it kind of is turning into one. A lot of big companies are having huge staffing issues right now. If they want to solve them the really easy solution is to increase pay.",
"The internet has failed to ever organise an actual general strike and I really doubt its gonna happen now",
"Alright I wasn't clear enough apparently. Like I mentioned in my comment, minimum wage doesn't really correlate in the way you think it does. What I wanted from you was a citation for this particular part:\n\n> It probably happens to a larger degree. \n\nI haven't heard of any companies abusing their employees by paying them an amount that requires them to be on welfare to survive in the EU, the same way Walmart and other companies in the US do. So before I can take that portion seriously, I need a source.",
"Your statistics are wrong. There are not 250 million Americans who align politically with the far-left extremist ideas that prevail on these leftists subreddits. Your original assertion is also nonsensical and moronic. It would probably be beneficial for more people to tell you that you’re significantly dumber than you perceive yourself. Youre welcome.",
"Lol this is funded by greatnationseat.org which is not a satirical organization.\n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/\n\nYou are literally falling for misinformation bait used to cover up the fact that Americans are going hungry.",
"Greatnationseat.org is not a satirical organization. \n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/\n\nStop spreading your lies.",
"S#i&, I thought Xmas was saved.... I'll tell the children.",
"I don't know what op is smoking. This is not an actual thing in the states. Don't upvote this garbage",
"> I was just trying to limit the scope of discussion a bit cause I don’t have a lot of time to discuss.\n\nOh I absolutely get that. I tend to fall into that rabbithole as well. Hope you have a nice day man!",
"I replied to a now deleted comment, that painted that scenario (well the opposite scenario, germany being the teacher of fascism...seems you mixed that up)\n\nThat's why i started my comment with \"IF\"\n\n&#x200B;\n\nWhy would you read a comment, see that it replies to a deleted comment, and assume you have the information required to call me out? To me, THAT is the actual cringe in this situation",
"Sure buddy, that's why there are whole tent cities full of homeless people in Germany. Oh wait, that's the US.",
"It's not satire if you tell people it is.",
"why does the website have ads for casino websites?\nthis shit never got aired in Germany. \nno clue why ppl give me awards, maybe satire was wrong but the ad is not german and the company is very sketchy",
"It may be satire but its spitting solid facts.",
"So a real organization is making a satirical video about a real issue?\n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/\n\nThis is not satire lol",
"We have systemic macro economic problems that are a combination of wage stagnation and increases to the costs of housing, healthcare, and higher education. These things can be addressed in various ways, but there ain't no revolution coming to rescue them from their own civic inaction. And there is zero chance they are going to coordinate any kind of general labor strike big enough to actually make a dent.\n\nIf you want to actually revolutionize how America works, move en-mass to places like Idaho, Wyoming, Iowa, or the Dakotas and flip some Senate seats. The new infrastructure bill's broadband provisions might make that easier for a significant chunk of people too.",
"So millions of Americans are not going hungry? You got a source for that?\n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/",
"Quote basically sums up why this shit will never work",
"Shit was made for boomers giving themselves a clap on the back. All the nonsense of we used to be the best, but now it's all shitty, is just old people throwing away any personal responsibility. \n\nWe've always had problems, we've always had huge disparities, we've always been engaged with opportunistic wars. Young generations aren't responsible for the current state of affairs, especially considering the average age of a senator is 64.",
"So millions of Americans are not starving? Did you get a source for that then? I think it's funny that your idea of truth is completely opinion-based. \n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/",
"lulz! always trying to remove responsibility from the individual I see. No, there is no segment of america who is forced to consume outlandish amount of calories each day of processed food.\n\nJust stop",
"That’s not what I said. You really gotta get your reading comprehension up, whether it’s comments or Merriam Webster. \n\nI didn’t say “250 million people on Reddit all agree with each other”, I said the majority. You made a statement that Reddit was some small pocket of the internet, I provided statistics against that assertion.\n\nThen you regressed to being three years old and called me names when you didn’t like what you read. Read it back three more times, maybe it’ll stick this time without your amygdala lighting up.",
"'Germany is running commercials to help feed America'",
"In my experience, that's hard, and the middle-class \"manager\" types don't get on well with the actual working class labourers. So much easier to just \"call\" a strike by demanding one on social media, turning up at someone else's job with a sign for half a day then getting a starbucks and heading home.",
"Hur dur, joe bad. Feed me upvotes.",
"Hope you have a nice day too!",
"It's funny reading all the comments from the offended \"patriots\" on this thread, the copium is real.",
"It's a great monologue, but the whole thing is rose colored glasses bullshit. He's bemoaning the loss of his naivety more than anything about the country.",
"Good glad someone cares. All our gov cares about is their housebouts and stock options.",
"Jesus Christ people are you actually trying to piece together what America is like from our *commercials*? Can you please stop this is one of the most hopeless comment sections I have ever seen",
"Yes I'm not arguing against that. I just found it incorrect to say \"overwhelming majority\" and retail being a \"pet project.\"",
"If there was such a rule Reddit would lose like 90% of its revenue.",
"Some people don't have any transportation to grocery stores and eat from corner stores. I know I've had to do that in the past. I also don't have an oven or a stove to cook that chicken",
"What is this tool you are using?",
"EDIT - seeing as you just deleted what you said, let me show you your OWN SOURCE.\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/VNdh7sr.png\n\nSee that dropdown arrow on your source? See where it says it's for NET INCOME?!?\n\nOh, that's not the best part. SEE WHERE IT SAYS IT'S IN EUROS?!?",
"Not enough zeroes.",
"Boomers grew up with running water, electricity, highways, airports, schools, hospitals, medicine, telephones, unlike their parents. They took it all for granted like it just came from nowhere. So when it came to maintaining those things and god forbid, building upon them and progressing, they screamed \"No new taxes\" as they cut spending.\n\nTo make things worse, they ultimately increased their own tax responsibilities by constantly relieving the ultra-wealthy and corporations of their tax responsibilities, not making them pay back into the system they are leveraging to make profits. Because, ya know, trickle down will work one of these days.",
"Our own government says 37 million Americans live in poverty",
"What is the seating arraignment of the Great Nation?",
"READ FOUCAULT before you talk bro",
"Thats some intense conjecture",
"How naive of you to think it's only right-wingers that spreads misinformation...",
"So the conclusion is every country that the US gives foreign aid to would be better off without that foreign aid, right?\n\nAccording to Google, the US gives about ~$35B in foreign aid. You're implying that if that number were $0, the world would be a better place, correct?",
"There is some evidence that shows otherwise https://www.vice.com/en/article/vb8zq9/obesity-is-skyrocketing-among-african-children\nJust peep it.",
"You realize the body needs more than just raw calories to function well, right? If your body is full of calories but lacking the micronutrients necessary to properly metabolize and utilize that energy, you can be starving in much the same way you can be dehydrated while adrift in the ocean.\n\nThe bullshit empty calories available in our food deserts can certainly pile up in the body quickly, but their lack of *nutritional worth* has health implications far beyond one's BMI.",
"Large chains that serve unhealthy meals outprice local establishments serving fresher/healthier options. Over a long enough time period, the local chains leave and unhealthy chains have a monopoly. It's the \"Walmart-ification\" of America.",
"Yes. \n\nHow are they going to compensate the people that made the paint? Transported it? Distributed it? How about the other supplies? Their food? Clothes? Water? etc. \n\nI agree that if people don't want to work they shouldn't have to, they should be free to go live off the land somewhere as long as it's not someone elses, without support of infrastructure or social construct.",
"Or zero actually *decent* meals a day because access to *quality* food is so limited in many, many areas.",
"Was that sarcasm again?",
"thankfully this wont force me to do more overtime, because amazon wont let anyone go over 60 hours, which is already the peak season default. wouldnt want to accidentally give the wage slaves double time pay.",
"Who exactly, is \"pretending\"? We are the greatest country in the world. You make it sound like just because a couple of poors go hungry because they have the freedom to choose to live that way is somehow a fault.",
"whats the obesity rate there i wonder. seriously, the UN is a joke and any of these attempts to call the US racist is just absurd. Dont fall victim to its BS",
"It's one thing to be in denial, or ashamed, but it's another thing altogether to call something \"fake\" when the message clearly is not. \n\nTrue, Germany is not running ads, but the ads are being run in this way to be precisely because too many people think that conditions like these are for poor countries... *\"Poverty like this can't exist in the greatest country to have ever existed?\"*. Well it does and it is seen by other nations. They don't run commercials, but someone has to get the attention of the denialists.\n\nSeveral other rankings are equally bleak\n\n\n[Poverty](https://www.statista.com/statistics/233910/poverty-rates-in-oecd-countries/)\n\n[Healthcare](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019)",
"The copy on that website reads like it was written by a bot....wtf",
"Yet, when they try, the mess it up even worse. It is like they completely ignore or were never taught history.",
"You don’t think there are tent cities in Germany? There are an estimated 678,000 homeless in Germany. Have you even been outside your town? There was a tent city inside the nürnburg U-bahn when I visited, and homeless people following me to get money. There are or were tent cities in public parks in München.\n\nA few years ago Berlin was paying homeless people to leave the country.",
"HHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHABAHA",
"> \"The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) defines food insecurity as a lack of consistent access to enough food for an **active, healthy life.**\"\n\nYou debunked your own statement there. Nothing there about hunger, more about dietary health.",
"You need to stop listening to Joe Biden speeches.",
"Fair enough",
"Oh look, a graphic designer also DIDN'T READ THE SOURCE BY CLICKING A DOWN ARROW AND READING THE TEXT TO SEE IT'S NET EARNINGS AND IN EUROS, NOT GROSS EARNINGS IN DOLLARS!! JUST LIKE YOU DID!!\n\nhttps://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ILC_DI04__custom_1407622/default/table?lang=en\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/VNdh7sr.png\n\nThere it is!\n\nOH MAN, HOW MANY OF THESE SOURCES BORROWED FROM ONE WRONG SOURCE AND JUST FUCKED IT UP?! \n\nI sure hope nobody is basing a political ideology off this!!\n\nYou again.",
"SATIRE YOU GULLIBLE FUCKIN IDIOTS",
"Higher scope, easier entrances, less bureaucracy, you know, the basics for any failing social program. Bonus points if that program is in the richest country of the world with a military budget of trillions of dollars.",
"What program did you use and how easy was it to get into it and out of it?",
"You're limiting the concept of \"price\" to what's on the sticker instead of factoring in the actual costs of acquiring food.\n\nTransportation is a factor in price. Time is a factor in price.",
"I doubt it\n\nIt would be ahuge coincidence that the first comment got deleted in the 10minutes between you making your bullshit reply, and me reading it...still possible but unlikely\n\nMain reason for my doubt is though, that your comment makes no sense at all, if you had seen the context. It would mean that you are a even bigger moron than the other way around\n\n&#x200B;\n\nSo i will go with the most probable scenario, you are just the average moron, as i assumed before, and are doing what average morons on reddit do when they get called out: nitpick, project and lie",
"Their Contact/Act page doesn't seem to send anything for me. The only article posted in their blog is half of their home page. Additionally it was written by a faceless profile with the name of \"Roberto Price,\" which could be a play on Robert Price. It has 33 Hearts...\n\nOn a website that does not support profile creation or integration. I think it's *very* subtle, but it's there.",
"Not the support of the charity for the charity's sake.. (paying a fraction of donations due to massive costs for salaries of operators). \n\n(example) Lock of love.. takes in donated hair & barbers time for wigs for cancer patients, uses most by selling it for operations and wages, running down prices for the market of hair growers..",
"So they're not starving, they're just eating garbage?",
"How dare you say the great wisdom and all knowing Redditors are susceptible to propaganda and satire.\n\nI am outraged and will do absolutely nothing about it but use words and downvote you to hell with my 1 point of power.",
"You're assuming everyone has ready access to this food and the time and energy to properly prepare it. \n\nConsider yourself lucky that you *can't* understand these problems.",
"It's literally on the link you provided! \n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/VNdh7sr.png\n\nNet income in Euros!\n\nThis is what confirmation bias looks like and it's great! Like: seriously, WHY WOULD THE EU PUBLISH DATA IN US DOLLARS?!?\n\nYou again.",
"Part of the [*\"Great Nations Eat\"*](https://greatnationseat.org/) campaign to raise awareness of these very real conditions is America \n\n>[What if other countries saw the same PSAs about hungry Americans that Americans see about them?](https://qz.com/473786/video-what-if-other-countries-saw-the-same-psas-about-hungry-americans-that-americans-see-about-them/)",
"It's still pretty bad and it's believable enough that most don't think it's satire.",
"Oh okay, that makes a little bit more of sense.",
"Can you not read that your own link says \"net income\" and \"euro\"?\n\nYou are comparing that to gross earnings in dollar lmao",
"Says the guy whose counter point is an un sourced \"No U\"",
"I agree, thanks for the good ideas!",
">68% of redditors are biting this bait too.\n\n68% of Redditors think the sun shines out of Joe Rogan's arse.",
"lmao, keep living in your beautiful reality pimp",
"That's 100% true I just don't like the antiwork mentality and I don't know how to put it through properly",
"Yeah not sure why they think Joe Rogan is an idiot. He's too busy trying to get US to wage war on Australia.",
">And yet somehow the poverty in Alabama is greater than in the rest of the developed world. \n\nIts not though.\n\n>It's almost like GDP isn't a good indicator for the actual day-to-day lives of the working class.\n\nSo, what measure would you prefer to use?",
"That's the point, dumb dumb.",
"it's satire, but it reflects the change of perception. very few in Europe believe anymore that the US offers the best life or living standards.",
"I'd imagine that in some very poor areas in the inner-city or very poor areas in rural America, there is legitimate starving going on. To exacerbate that issue, fast food among the poor is seen as an \"affordable luxury\" so when they can afford something \"special\" they go out and eat figurative garbage... I don't think it's a simple issue but that's probably about as neatly as I can package it.",
"I am. If you dont have basic food available to you then dont say its expensive, say its not available. If you guys dont have basic food available, that is a huge problem that should be talked about instead of price of healthy vs unhealthy foods.",
"[Poe's Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) possibly.",
"One or two companies could do more in a week than every person that has upvoted this post could in a year.\n\nYes, people could do more, but you're point of view is still terrible on this matter.",
"Have you ever seen obese homeless people? I've seen plenty, and its cause any money they do scrounge up they can only afford fast food with it. \nHere is a dated study on the topic as well. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3531350/",
"even india? classic modernist racism smh",
"Unfortunately, food stamps can't buy time. We're on assistance and can eat well -- quite well, actually -- due to the fact that one of us has the time to shop for and prepare properly nutritious meals. \n\nThe folks whose scarcity of time rivals that of money tend to not have great outcomes on food assistance because the convenient, pre-packaged shit that's most easily recognized and compatible with their schedules isn't really any better than a Big Mac.",
"You can quote numbers all you want but no one over here has to work two jobs. \n\n\nI'm not going to argue numbers with someone who obviously uses them as a blanket to cover reality and to protect his fragile patriotism. \n\n\nMaybe leave your shithole of a country once and then see for yourself.",
">this is satire and its a very old clip\n\nIt is not satire at all. Its just not from Germany.",
"It's not a joke. \n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/",
"Yeah and as someone in supply chain, the infrastructure and distribution setup they have is nothing short of incredible. It’s really hard not to respect their supply chain and infrastructure, they have and do set the standard for the world.",
"Either a) yes, or b) there's a shit-ton of mouth breathers exclaiming things like that. I mean you realize how many people happily display/wear merch that says, \"keep America great\"?",
"It's not. The title is wrong, Germany doesn't run those commercials. But this is actually an American campaign to raise awareness.",
"I'm glad I don't live in the absolute fucking wasteland that is Australia. I see videos of the terrible animals and awful climate and relish in the fact I never have to set foot on that shit island.",
"Also pretty high on \"number of movies produced\" and \"number of Superbowls won\"",
"Well, these ads aren't so much to get these people help, as they are to take a fat cut of whatever claim these people might be able to press.\n\nIf your lawyer is buying airtime, you're the one paying for it.",
"I mean, I don't think it's that farfetched to believe that up to 20% of Americans at least sometimes struggle to get adequate nutrition. I do, however, believe that Reddit is full of people who are ready to disregard that possibility because it's just too fucked to think that 20% of all Americans are at least a little food insecure.",
"If the US could stop paying farmers to destroy crops to protect prices, we could feed the people indeed and more. Satire aside, hunger is an issue in the US.",
"Nah, the real answer is to make sure that if you make over $200k or employ at least 5 people, you pay $0 in taxes. It's the only way to ensure everything trickles down like I keep being told it will. Any day now.",
"It's a real organization. \n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/",
"[https://web.archive.org/web/20150316233946/http://greatnationseat.org/](https://web.archive.org/web/20150316233946/http://greatnationseat.org/)",
"That's the type of subservient thinking that is so typical of many Americans. No my man, you have it completely backwards. Rich billionaires and corporations buy the political process and make the rules of the game for themselves.\n\nThe idea that you should \"\\[not\\] hate the player, \\[but\\] hate the game\" is a distraction meant to deflect accountability from those with political and economic power - and I don't mean the politicians..",
"No no show Joe Rogan and let him show the world how much of an idiot he is.",
"Not agreeing with anyone, just pointing out this site has been around since at least 2015 and has changed designs a few times.\n\n[https://web.archive.org/web/20150316233946/http://greatnationseat.org/](https://web.archive.org/web/20150316233946/http://greatnationseat.org/)",
"Da hat jemand Volkswirtschaft verstanden ayy lmao",
"I hope this is satire.",
"And in USA it's even higher? What's your point?",
"Thanks. OP blocked. Reddit needs less of this bullshit.",
"From the looks of your comment history, you need to chill out on your right-wing nutjob consumption.",
"Good thing we didn't inherit WW2. That would suck.",
"Too many *shitty* calories. When good food is hard to find, or it's hard to find time to prepare it, the Big Mac becomes a rational option.",
"....but it's not. \n\nThese are useless facts anyways. My point was everyone has their own issues, don't go pointing fingers when Germany is at 14% and the USA is 12%. \n\nI'm not American, I just don't use one sided \"facts\"",
"lol as if these retard anti work children are doing anything",
"I'm aware, I wasn't claiming any sort of victory, I'm saying the US takes the forefront on military action and expenditure - and we pay a hefty price for the privilege.",
"Lmao only place in the world right? Fool",
"You're right it's a fraction of a fraction and I'm not 100% against helping others that would just be ridiculously selfish I just hate antiwork mentality and can't find the proper words",
"That used to be the point but it's gone full \\/r/nowork.",
"I wasn't implying otherwise, simply stating that the social luxuries many societies enjoy are due to the gross overspending on the military in the US, and the foreign aid we provide as a result.",
"I sometimes struggle to get up from the couch to make popcorn. In those moments, I am America's starving youth.",
"I mean, the food exists and there is a path to it. It's available. Maybe a good middle ground term would be \"accessible\" then.",
"You having to go to that much effort to explain what everyone already knows shows that he was right. r/all is extremist left, and it's painfully obvious to everyone except those that tow that narrative and think it's not.",
"Starvation is the deprivation of food leading to massive caloric deficits. It does not have to do with malnourishment from eating the wrong foods. I am not making an argument that eating poorly is not an issue. I am stating what the fuck starvation is. People in the US are not starving at high rates. It isn't fucking happening. Stop trying to make starvation something it is not. They may be eating poorly. They may miss meals here and there. They may need food assistance. Those all fall under food insecurity (assuming poor nutrition is not by choice), which, as I have stated, is still an issue. Yet they are not fucking starving. How is this so god damn hard to understand!?",
"He is, which makes this shit they posted even funnier...\n\n>The median household income in Germany is $27.2k. The median household income in the US $65.7k. If you want to talk about food insecurity, the median German would qualify for food stamps and free healthcare in the US because their income is so low.\n\n\"Bonjour monsieur, how many **dollars** for a Eurostar ticket?\"!!!",
"I think the first tell that this is satire comes from the fact that the last slide is in English. It is clear that this is intended for domestic consumption in order to raise awareness of food insecurity in America.",
"It's frustrating to see food that's handed out to the \"food insecure\" is often highly processed, carb and sugar heavy. I've seen the free breakfasts they give out at my daughter's school and I won't even let her eat it. Teddy grahams, juice, cinnamon toast crunch bar. Nothing like starting the school day on a sugar high, then crashing. Can't possibly be conducive to a good learning environment. They take every precaution when it comes to Covid but ignore what's probably a larger epidemic of childhood obesity that results in poor health outcomes for the most at-risk. And most of the people dying of Covid are obese. How hard is it to give kids veggies? If they won't eat it, they're not hungry. Sorry, just needed to rant.",
"https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/literacy-rate\n\nUS literacy rate is 99%",
"You really need to learn what the word extremist means. You are not using it correctly.",
"Just look at the webpage again, you are falling for misinformation after it’s been already pointed out as misinformation.",
"When there is no difference between satire and reality, is it still funny?",
"Nah she's German, or at least speaks it flawlessly - if not, that's what I would have pointed out first, of course",
"You can find aid here. \n\nhttps://greatnationseat.org/",
"https://obesity.procon.org/global-obesity-levels/",
"And “world” series won.",
"To get the \"37 million people face hunger\" figure, they just counted the number of people receiving SNAP benefits. So a more accurate statement would be, \"37 million Americans would face hunger if they didn't get help, but they get plenty to eat because America spends $79 billion every year to ensure that they can buy the food that they need\".",
"Wow you're a dumbass lol. Too bad no one educated you properly or I guess you didn't educate yourself properly. Compete failure on your part.",
"Black Belt, most of West Virginia and Mississippi, and by far the worst, the Indian reservations are all areas of obscene poverty in the US.",
"Dude don't you know? U.S. BAD!!! /s",
"This article needs to be further up!\n\nSo basically, this is an American ad designed FOR American audiences, trying to show that the situation is America is bad enough that other countries *could* show commercials like this. The goal is to get American audiences interested in improving the situation in America.\n\nSo not satire, exactly, but I don't know what to call it other than an emotional argument.",
"Yo the poor people I saw in the USA in different places didn't even had teeth and looked very zombie like. I never saw people like this in any western Europe country. \n\nThis is also backed by pretty much any statistics about average health, homicide rate, drug addiction percentage, child mortality, homeless rate and of course the summary in form of average live expectancy which is more in the range of turkey and other countries and far away from actual first world countries",
"\"Aye Jamie pull this shit up\"",
"Not even debating your dramatized opinion about the how bad the US is compared to 'every other developed nation', you need to learn what effective discourse is when criticizing anything. You can have the most valid points in the world but if you end arguments with eyeroll-inducing statements like death the Amerikka it will always fall flat.",
"> Pulling out of Afghanistan will wipe the Kurds off the face of the Earth. It will be genocide.\n\nKurds in Afghanistan? Who ever said that, can you cite sources? (If you're going to make up bullshit about people making up bullshit it would be only fair.) Of the 30-40 million Kurds in the world, none live in Afghanistan. \nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds\n\nCan you show me Afghanistan on this map? (Do you know where Afghanistan is in relation to this map?) \nhttps://i.imgur.com/UOA9uCc.jpeg\n\n>We're all going to die from climate change in 20 years.\n\nNobody, anywhere, has ever said that. Just because you're evidently not educated enough, or perhaps intelligent enough, to grasp what the overwhelming majority of climate science is saying does not mean \"those DNC are spreading lies that we're all going to die in 20 years\". \n\n>Climate Scientists to World: We Have Only 20 Years Before There’s No Turning Back [NRDC:10/12/2018](https://www.nrdc.org/onearth/climate-scientists-world-we-have-only-20-years-theres-no-turning-back)\n---\n>Earlier this week, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a chilling report that has sent most people (with the notable exception of the current president of the United States) into a deep funk. In it, some 90 climate scientists from 40 countries conclude that if humans don’t take immediate, collective action to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius by 2040, the consequences will effectively be baked into the natural systems of the planet. With so much heat-trapping carbon in the atmosphere, there will be, in effect, no turning back. The extreme droughts, devastating wildfires, massive floods, deadly hurricanes, and widespread famines that we’re seeing more and more of these days will cease to be statistical anomalies and instead be more like seasonal markers, as regular as the changing of the leaves. \n[IPCC special report on the impacts of global warming](https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/download/)",
"Modern day",
"Man, that stings.",
"I think one of the things a lot of people overlook in this debate is that it is not about age or generations at all. It's a class war that has been going on for centuries. Every generation has a subset among it that wants to get rich and then maintain that wealth at any cost. And as every generation falls, the next one gets better at it and the divide gets wider. \n\nEach generation also has a subset trying to fight it and change things for the better, but they just keep losing.",
"...giving people free money to buy groceries on, instead of them spending their wages on food, isn't a good way to help poor people? \n\nThat's ridiculous.",
"> how about fuck this shit, everyone go to /r/antiwork, we're organizing a giant strike on black friday to hurt these vultures the only way we can.\n\nLol, no. Get a job.",
"Germany just needed a tyrant dead set on world domination to set it straight. America will be there soon.",
"that's obvious...",
"I haven’t looked yet, but I bet you this is downvoted. Those are the mongers that want the war machine to continue, the corruption of the military industrial complex and in general, the fascism of trying to control others.",
"My god! Read your own links..\n\n“the commission said that African countries' rapid economic and social change were two primary, environmental culprits driving the trend.”\n\nSo, lower income people becoming wealthier and increasing their access to food and ability to purchase food is somehow them being forced to over eat a limited variety of food?\n\nJust stop!",
"HDI would be better. \n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index\n\nHere's one that compares individual counties \n\nhttps://www.al.com/news/2016/05/which_nation_does_your_alabama.html",
"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-31/berlin-has-been-paying-the-homeless-to-leave-germany",
"Captain friggin buzz kill",
"Desktop version of /u/Lopsided_Plane_3319's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)",
"Tank the economy with a general strike? Yeah, that will help poor people a lot.\n\nAnd good luck organizing a general strike without the help of any unions. Instead, you should definitely organize through a subreddit for people who brag about sabotaging their employers. I'm sure their contributions will be sorely missed.",
"There are a lot of variables. Unfortunately the truth of the matter is lowering your standard of living is often necessary. Thats the point.",
"Lol sick burn",
"So many people don't know how to take a joke. That's why Dave Chappelle is getting hate.",
"But rich people can afford to not pay poor people better wages when \"more agreeable people\" arrive? But would those people really become more rich if immigration doesn't happen aaaaaaaahhhh? Maybe I'm just misinformed heheheheehee",
"I just now asked my friend who is German and currently lives there and has always lived there, he says no, this isn't a real commercial. \n\nHe's involved in entertainment writing and I trust his perspective",
"So your point of view is better that we should all sit back and complain and do nothing? Very healthy of you. Good luck to you, but I strongly disagree.\n\nAnd guess what. Your savior, the mighty company?! That’s really just a collection of people. So, just because the company and all those people can help, if they have they sit back attitude do you really believe they will help.",
"So, even homeless in 1st world countries have access to food they are able to consume enough calories that lead to obesity",
"Accessible is a good term. If basic healthy food is not accessible to the public, then it is what needs to be talked about instead of focusing on retail prices of various foods.",
"Satire video. Old. You have the iq of 23.",
"You are really bad at this",
"Im German and I can NOT CONFIRM.",
"Projecting much?",
"Um, maybe you should read the sub's sidebar. They literally want the concept of \"work\" to be abolished, and for everyone's needs to be met by a communist society. \n\nHeck, better yet, read their FAQs- They readily admit that they're lazy and they don't want to work, lol.",
"And? There are plenty of places in the world where transit is severely curtailed overnight.",
"You got downvoted, but I upvoted you. I guess the up I got is from you.",
"I've rarely wanted for much at all (go union labor!) but I have volunteered quite a bit at food pantries and kitchens in different parts of CA and none of them ever turned anyone away and they rarely even asked for a name. The pantry I volunteered for in SF gave anyone who got in line a huge bag of quality food no questions asked. I even did deliveries for them.\n\n\nThere's no excuse for full time workers to be food insecure anywhere in the US, and food stamps should be reformed to allow people to buy diapers etc. We could learn a little from Europe on that. It's true tho that overall we have a pretty effective food safety net in the vast majority of the country. I've seen it first hand. Always room for improvement too.",
"They look to be as serious as their \"food pic strikes\" on instagram.",
"Yeah huge stretches of the US are hardly populated. Germany is about 3.6% the size of US by area but has 25% of the population so population density per unit area is vastly higher. With the same population density and distribution per unit area it would be highly unlikely the US would have any food deserts.",
"The irony is people pretend its so expensive to eat healthy. I decided to break the cycle of shit bagged/boxed frozen food the other week (the stuff poor people fill their carts with), I bought a bag of onions a bag of potatoes and a bag of chicken for $15 it was enough food for a week if I supplemented it a few things I had laying around (canned veggies, hot sauce, etc). I then picked up some $1 packages of instant rice, bread (the good stuff from the bakery, real bread), meat, lettuce etc. I have spent maybe $50 in groceries in the past two weeks and am full at every meal, am loosing weight and my heart no longer feels like its going to give up after I eat. lol. Sure I still want a frozen pizza or a plate of cheese sticks every once in a while but that would be almost half my new weekly budget for one meal and I will feel like shit after I eat it anyways. Ingredients are a fishing pole, a bag of chicken nuggets is a fish.",
">I get it, many of you hate everything about the US. <snip a bunch of bullshit>\n\nOr maybe we are just sick of the simplistic nationalist bullshit about how the US is THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN AMERICA and THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOM etc...\n\nMaybe problems can't be solved without admitting they exist, Fuck the love it or leave it crowd and their simple minded bullshit.",
"It's a shame Macrotrends.net doesn't list their source. 99% seems pretty unrealistic. I'm curious how they define \"literate\".\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States\n\nThis links to several studies where you can see the methodology and results. The Department of Education's cutoff was reading at a 6th grade level.",
"Nobody is making an argument that hunger is a good thing but it is also not at 20%.\n\nThose are the two arguments. No one is starving, and food insecurity in the US is not at 20% (turns out to be old data). I also help define what food insecurity is which doesn't mean people are not eating. Everything else is you trotting out a straw man.\n\nThe simple fact is you are not looking for real info. You are working from the assumption the US is terrible and you are desperately working backwards without refuting a single point I have made.",
"Not really, look up starvation death statistics in the US. So low they don't have reliable data to publish a figure. It''s typically those who are abandoned elderly, etc or mentally unwell. Plenty of resources to help those who are hungry in the US.",
"Hiding behind *cherry picked* data to paint an extremely *biased* picture is what you are guilty of. \n\nYour fantasy family isn't convincing either.",
"You ok kid? \n\nGet all that off your chest and ready to discuss the topic in a rational manner?",
"Yeah thats bs dude. You can still buy vegatables and meat and make something nutritious and healthy in any area of the united states. Those people are choosing convenience food over healthy food on their own accord.",
"https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/01/precedent-problem-us-leaving-afghans-behind/&ved=2ahUKEwjCncOs1Yv0AhXkmGoFHZMCBdIQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw00riFHnZDSzrsp4p2ZoF47\n\nhttps://thediplomat.com/2019/10/after-the-kurds-will-trump-abandon-afghanistan-next/&ved=2ahUKEwjCncOs1Yv0AhXkmGoFHZMCBdIQFnoECDsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0YbjO_tk0Fi3n7K0YlcVMi\n\nI could go on forever since it was a fucking non-stop media covered bonanza for weeks that you somehow ignored. Reddit was taking about it non stop. I'm on my phone and at work or else I would further embarrass you and your obfuscation.\n\n\nhttps://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2642481002&ved=2ahUKEwi_7M_v14v0AhValmoFHS4LA38QFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3ZxxOyxLz_uEQRym59vjWG&ampcf=1\n\nI don't know if these links will work but just Google AOC climate change. She said in 12 years the world will end. I'm obviously takin talking to someone who has no interest in having a genuine argument. Stick to your \"gotcha\" politics.",
"> Each generation also has a subset trying to fight it and change things for the better, but they just keep losing.\n\nMaking things better for others takes something away from me!!!\n\nIt's like TSA PreCheck. People that can justify the cost get it and skip the lines. But if it was free for everyone, then what's the point? So don't improve the security process at all.",
"Why do you think “food insecurity” is a reference to diet quality instead of quantity?",
"Take the L kiddo.",
"Which you didn‘t do…",
"We don't and never will live in a fair world.",
"it must be difficult to get through day being such an assumptive Silly Billy.\n\nIf that that is how you interpret my words, you really need to get your comprehension levels up to at least the average americans level.",
"...or... better wages and jobs could not put 37 million Americans below the poverty line.",
"The sub is intended as satire, but many many many of the posts and comments don't seem to know that.",
"I made no statements to that effect. I provided data that refutes ignorant statements. I made no statements saying issues don't exist and I in fact state multiple times they do.\n\nMaybe you are the issue. You would rather believe lies than actually agree an ignorant statement painted the US incorrectly.",
"Imagine my relief.",
"Did you look at your link? Per capita France is 6 and US is 10. The spending numbers are pretty close to each other.\n\n\n\nAlso, in net spending France is 1 and US 2.",
"ok boomer",
"Its your personal responsibility to educate yourself. Since you failed to do it your opinions are meaningless. Sorry little buddy, you a failure.",
"The HDI has been criticized on a number of grounds, including alleged lack of consideration of technological development or contributions to the human civilization, focusing exclusively on national performance and ranking, lack of attention to development from a global perspective, measurement error of the underlying statistics, and on the UNDP's changes in formula which can lead to severe misclassification in the categorisation of \"low\", \"medium\", \"high\" or \"very high\" human development countries.\n\nEconomists Hendrik Wolff, Howard Chong and Maximilian Auffhammer discuss the HDI from the perspective of data error in the underlying health, education and income statistics used to construct the HDI. They identified three sources of data error which are due to (i) data updating, (ii) formula revisions and (iii) thresholds to classify a country's development status and conclude that 11%, 21% and 34% of all countries can be interpreted as currently misclassified in the development bins due to the three sources of data error, respectively. The authors suggest that the United Nations should discontinue the practice of classifying countries into development bins because: the cut-off values seem arbitrary, can provide incentives for strategic behavior in reporting official statistics, and have the potential to misguide politicians, investors, charity donors and the public who use the HDI at large.[22]\n\nIn 2010, the UNDP reacted to the criticism and updated the thresholds to classify nations as low, medium, and high human development countries. In a comment to The Economist in early January 2011, the Human Development Report Office responded[23] to a 6 January 2011 article in the magazine[24] which discusses the Wolff et al. paper. The Human Development Report Office states that they undertook a systematic revision of the methods used for the calculation of the HDI, and that the new methodology directly addresses the critique by Wolff et al. in that it generates a system for continuously updating the human-development categories whenever formula or data revisions take place.\n\nIn 2013, Salvatore Monni and Alessandro Spaventa emphasized that in the debate of GDP versus HDI, it is often forgotten that these are both external indicators that prioritize different benchmarks upon which the quantification of societal welfare can be predicated. The larger question is whether it is possible to shift the focus of policy from a battle between competing paradigms to a mechanism for eliciting information on well-being directly from the population.",
"You can't though!!\n\n>**The median household income in Germany is $27.2k**. The median household income in the US $65.7k. If you want to talk about food insecurity, the median German would qualify for food stamps and free healthcare in the US because their income is so low.\n\nOh man this is great. And let's look at that screenshot again?\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/VNdh7sr.png\n\nDoes that say net and not gross?\n\nI think that says net and not gross!\n\nIt's not even apples and oranges. It's apples and pictures of tables.\n\nIt means you based all of this stuff about what money Germans have (so that stuff about food stamps) on not knowing what gross and net mean, or what Euros are. Splendid start to your day!\n\nSo when you said this, thinking you were backing it up...\n\n>Okay this is your last chance on me explaining this\n\n>Median household income- what the median family brings home a year\n \n>US: $65.7k \n>Germany: $27.2k\n\nIt's because you don't know what you're talking about. Does that explain it? Or do I need crayons?\n\nDon't like being ridiculed like some sort of an idiot? Stop posting ridiculous stuff where the links you provided make you look like some sort of an idiot.\n\nYou again.",
"You seem to not understand how walking works. Leaving is as simple as literally just leaving. You really don't understand what \"lower your standard of living\" means do you?\n\n\nWhen people say they can't do something or something isn't possible usually what they are really saying is that they don't like the consequences of doing it. Not that its literally impossible. Not liking the consequences is irrelevant.",
"Maybe, but I dont drop bombs on innocent people and then give aid with strings attached, shit I dont even put stings on my charity donations.",
"seriously, if you can hype a crowd so much that eight people die, youre a fucking legend.",
">\tIts your personal responsibility to educate yourself. Since you failed to do it your opinions are meaningless. \n\nHow did i fail to do that?\n\n>Sorry little buddy, you a failure.\n\nIn what aspect am i a failure and at some point will reach a point where you’re able ro discuss the topic at hand like a rational adult?",
"Wins the World Series every year too!",
"They're just dumbasses because a communist society doesn't allow for freeloaders. For communism to actually work, people have to contribute to the society. That's why it never works, you get freeloaders who don't give a shit because giving a shit doesn't change anything for them.",
"Yeah. The loss he's talking about is real to some extent. Politics has gotten real corrupt in the US and there was a period where politics and income equality were no where near this extreme. And they basically outsourced their entire manufacturing industry which hasn't been good for them. But a lot of the success that he's talking about was a product of being the line survivor that was unscathed from ww2. And a lot of the failures that he's talking about are a result of the bellicose and arrogant people that Americans enjoying that undeserved prosperity put into power one way or another.",
"based man saw something, said something.",
"Where did I dispute the starvation of Americans ?? Get off your high horse dip shit. The commercials are satire.",
"overtime is bad, cap our hours!!!\n\nwait i want overtime!!!",
"also why lightning strikes make the news too. amazing so many dont know this",
"Looked at your links, SEE NOTHING ABOUT KURDS BEING WIPED OUT IF THE USA LEFT AFGHANISTAN. It's like you can't even grasp that even the article you linked is talking about two entirely different things.\n\nLooked at your USA today link, it's not valid.\n\nDo you even know how to use the internet when spouting your horseshit or is that part of your strategy when asked to provide sources?",
"Your comments were that of someone that has not studied the topic. Hence you're a complete failure. It's not my job to educate simpletons. Refrain from commenting on things you have no knowledge of and people won't call you an idiot.",
"yes, every person has every desire simultaneously, allowing people to work more overtime and not forcing other people to work overtime they dont want is also mutually exclusive somehow, you're very smart and observant.",
"No kidding. Talk about skewing metrics to find anyway to make the US look bad. Pretty pathetic when it’s taken to this degree.",
"You can copy paste criticisms which is nice. \n\nI'm not making comparisons of low medium or high so thats moot. \n\nThey addressed the other criticism by updating formula. \n\nStill makes more sense compare those lifestyle metrics of gdp which doesn't take into account any sort of life style improvements, health of citizens, access to healthcare etc etc. So yes Alabama continues to be low human development.",
">Your comments were that of someone that has not studied the topic. \n\nHow so? Could you please clarify what you mean?\n\n>Hence you're a complete failure. \n\nSee above. A little explanations on your part will be needed.\n\n>It's not my job to educate simpletons. \n\nWhat about my comment showed I was uneducated on the subject?\n\n>Refrain from commenting on things you have no knowledge of and people won't call you an idiot\n\nAgain, please point out what it is youre claiming I have no knowledge of. Seriously, you should be at a point now you are able to rationally discuss the topic in an adult manner.",
"Right, but you can’t say that 7-11 is a sustainable way to feed a family, especially if you’re on a budget. \n\nI’m on a good wage, and typically spend a significant chunk of it at high quality markets, butchers, fishmongers, and supermarkets. \n\nEven then, if I was trying to feed a family with chicken salads, cereal, fruit, bottled water etc from a 7-11, I’d be broke in no time.",
"The 20% is from some unknown old poll. The numbers they quote is 49 million americans, that number was 37 million 2 years ago. from \"Feeding America\", in the link above. That's better, but not very different.\n\nI don't exactly know why you're replying to this chain. I replied to this dude because I didn't understand why I wasn't allowed to concede a bad wording on my part (and the OP of this thread), without giving up the entire point: You were refuting all facts in the video using some weird index that, in its definition, did not make any sense. At least not to me. I still don't see that natural resources and resilience is a valid measure of anything here. However, the US does score very high on affordability and quality, so there is some sense to your argument. It doesn't fully invalidate the video though.",
"Reddit ¯\\\\\\_(ツ)\\_/¯",
"So those conclusions aren't true?\n\nI feel like these aren't difficult questions to answer. You're being pretty wishy-washy with your statements so I'm trying to figure out what you're implying here. That's why I directly ask you whether those statements are true. Sounds to me like you think US foreign aid is a little less black and white than you're letting on, would you agree?\n\n>If that that is how you interpret my words, you really need to get your comprehension levels up to at least the average americans level.\n\nMaybe you're a poor writer who needs to work on articulating their thoughts. Or maybe you just wanted to throw out some zingers against American foreign policy and are now getting defensive once those points are questioned.",
"There’s always a counterpoint to this argument, and here it is:\n\nConvenience. What you described is a family of 4. Well, if you’re so poor that you work two or three jobs just to feed your family, it’s a damn sight easier to throw freezer food in the oven and you’re guaranteed that it won’t go bad if your plans change and you can’t use it.\n\nAdd to that that if you’re gonna make black beans with salsa and tortillas, your kids might hate it, cause a fuss and not eat it or add to the stress.\n\nWhy are so many poor people obese? Because being poor is hard, it’s stressful, it’s tiring and eating shitty food is easier to do cheaply than eating healthily.\n\nIt’s a lot easier for a white collar software engineer to say ‘just eat this it’s easy’ while he builds his own plane and drives around in his Porsche than it is for a frazzled single mom to find the mental strength to do that.\n\nBecause shitty food *is* cheaper than healthy food when you factor in life pressures and time.",
">You can copy paste criticisms which is nice.\n\ncorrect\n\n>I'm not making comparisons of low medium or high so thats moot.\n\nWhy is it mute? What are you talking about?\n\n>They addressed the other criticism by updating formula.\n\nThere is still major criticism by economist regarding the formula. \n\n>Still makes more sense compare those lifestyle metrics of gdp which doesn't take into account any sort of life style improvements, health of citizens, access to healthcare etc etc. \n\nWhy does it make more sense? Any measure you use will have flaws to the methodology regardless if its GDP, HDI or whatever.\n\n>So yes Alabama continues to be low human development.\n\nNot really.",
"Your post gives me the impression that you are a single, young person(forgive me if I'm wrong). My statement doesn't fully apply to individuals in similar situation. Poor & obese affects mostly low income families/single parents who lack the resources/know-how or time to provide the healthy option.\nAlso, you are losing weight because you've stopped drinking yourself into an early grave. Keep at it. Fingers crossed for you.",
">Did you look at your link? Per capita France is 6 and US is 10. The spending numbers are pretty close to each other.\n\n\nIts okay, you can just say \"woops I looked at the wrong thing\".",
"Because they didn’t end the ad with “/s”",
"Actually, he didn’t say young people are the worst generation, he said they were the worst period generation (in American history)- quite a different sentiment. \n\nThere has always been hypocrisy in America, but it’s been increasingly exposed since the war in Vietnam- I know, I’ve personally witnessed it. But this hypocrisy doesn’t completely nullify the positive aspects of his description of our past.\n\nUnfortunately, he neglects to mention any of the positive traits of the current younger generation- acceptance of different sexual orientation or gender identity to name just one. But that’s not consistent with the message he’s trying to communicate and would have muddied the water . \n\nThe purpose of his diatribe is to further expose our national hypocrisy and to consider who we are as a nation. Especially in the areas where we’ve deteriorated. And for young people who blame our current problems on the boomer generation- you’re mostly right. But don’t for one second imagine that you would have behaved any differently were you to have been born a boomer- the moral high ground is the luxury of those who can look back, knowing what we know now.",
"I mean, I guess not (im not entirely convinced it couldn’t be done but it isn’t ideal) but I would then ask what they are choosing to feed their family with instead? The person above mentioned 7/11 which is the only reason I used it in the example. \n\nThe reality is that a lot of times people choose unhealthy options out of convenience, laziness, and/or preference, and not because of a true lack of healthy alternative options. Are they going to fast food chains instead of grocery stores? Even very small rural towns have independent grocers so I doubt a significant percentage of people simply don’t have access to groceries. So is it about not wanting to cook? Not wanting to eat healthy choices over fast food? Even fast food has somewhat healthier options you can choose to order if you want, but it’s definitely limited. \n\nI understand there are some examples of people who truly don’t have access to cheap/healthy food, but not nearly as many as this comment chain is trying to illustrate. The overwhelming majority of people who don’t eat a healthy diet simply choose to out of convenience and preference.",
"I also stated it is not starving, defined what food security and insecurity is, and noted even that is not 20%. Do some math. US population is 330 million. \n\nI also was not refuting everything in the video. I am adding data combined with other information that directly refutes the person's statement while providing a more accurate picture. The only thing you have is you don't like it. That is it. You have nothing but bias and straw men.\n\nThat video is disingenuous, the reply about starvation is disingenuous, and you are disingenuous.\n\nHere, is this bad to post too?\n\nhttps://ourworldindata.org/hunger-and-undernourishment\n\nFeel free to attack the US for being in line with the rest of the developed world under 2.5%. \"But wait, what about that 20%?! I like that one because it makes the US out to be bad!\"\n\nFace it, you liked the 20% and have spent this whole desperately wanting that to be true while dismissing things because you don't like them. If that food security index said the opposite you wouldn't question it one second. It clearly deals with a nations ability to feed its people. The only reason you don't like it is it doesn't make the US look bad.",
"It's satire in the sense that Germany didn't really make this commercial, nor did it ever really air on German TV, but the ponit of the faux ad is a serious one, to raise awareness about the issue of food insecurity in the USA. They also made a Chinese one, and a few others. IIRC these originally came out in 2014 or so, and at the time the Chinese one went sorta viral and people thought China really was airing these, and then suddenly one day the videos vanished from much of the internet. Almost like a governent agency pressured them to remove the videos because it was making the USA look really bad and making China look superior.",
"I haven't stopped drinking, im not young and poor people do know whats healthy they just choose not to eat it.",
">\nWhy is it mute? What are you talking about?\n\nThat's one of the criticisms. It's not being used here and Alabama is not gaming a metric. Keep up. \n\n>There is still major criticism by economist regarding the formula. \n\nThat's fine. Please elaborate. \n\n>Why does it make more sense? Any measure you use will have flaws to the methodology regardless if its GDP, HDI or whatever.\n\nRight but we should use more pertinent ones. You using the gdp is the equivalent of saying an area has an average income of 200k when it's 4 people making 10k and one making 950k. A more pertinent would be a median income. \n\nGdp is not a good representative by almost any measure regarding well being of a society. Hence Alabama has 3rd world equivalent areas. \n\n>GDP only counts goods that pass through official, organized markets, so it misses home production and black market activity. ... If two economies have the same GDP per capita, but one has polluted air and water while the other doesn't, well-being will be different but GDP per capita won't capture it.\n\nOne of the main problems with GDP per capita is that it doesn't account for any inequality within a society. ... Another central problem with using GDP per capita as a measure of quality of life is the oversimplification which it represents.",
">Your anecdotes aside, the US doesn't come close to France or any other developed nation in social services, especially when considering spending per capita.\n\n\nThat is what you said, so yes, you're wrong.",
"Best of luck to you.",
"I have no responsibility to educate you on the subject matter. It's your personal responsibility to inform yourself on the subject. If you're not able to keep up with current material then your comments are invalid and will be ignored. Please continue to be an idiot but refrain from commenting due to your lack of knowledge.",
"None that I've ever seen at least not to the extent that there is a fucking Wikipedia article listing the tent cities in Germany as there is for the US:\n\n[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\\_of\\_tent\\_cities\\_in\\_the\\_United\\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tent_cities_in_the_United_States)\n\nAlso, the number of homeless people you mentioned includes over 400k refugees. You know, the people you don't even let in or put in cages. Aside from that, this is the number of people that don't have an apartment. The number of people actually living on the street is 48k. But you didn't mention that because it would completely destroy your argument.\n\nBut sure, \"Germany's homeless rate is miles higher\", next you're going to tell me the number of underinsured people is also higher lmao.\n\nI don't understand how you people can be so fucking in denial, but I sure know why nothing over there get's better.\n\nYap, I've definitely seen stuff like this In Germany and you have as well:\n\n[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10064887/Crisis-Koreatown-Video-shows-homeless-encampment-bustling-Los-Angeles-neighborhood.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10064887/Crisis-Koreatown-Video-shows-homeless-encampment-bustling-Los-Angeles-neighborhood.html)\n\nFucking liar.",
"> many of you hate everthing about the US. it is a complete shithole\n\nThis is what you said and what I am reacting to other than that I in no way stated you said anything else. I **am** **suggesting** that you are full of shit on this statement. I am also suggesting a statement like that is most likely to come from a simple minded love it or leave it USA chanting freedom screaming true believer that the USA is the best country in the world! If any one dare say that there are any issues in the US other than freedom hating lefties then they are a freedom hating socialist lefty. \n\nTo be clear I am not saying that is what you are since I don't know you, but I do know what your statement comes off like to a reasonable person. I am also not making any comment on the actual content of any other post other than your one rant.",
"I absolutely agree and it is what I said.\n\n>It \\[junk food\\] is more convenient, that is for sure, but it is way more expensive\n\nAlso leave Scoobert out of this.",
"The vast majority of snap benefits go to: gas station cold-purchase ready to eat meals and soda.",
"Yap, we pay them, you segregate them and harass them with police brutality. Cope.\n\n[https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2021/aug/05/phoenix-investigation-justice-department-police-abuse](http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/2/why-the-homeless-might-be-especially-vulnerable-to-police-violence.html)\n\n[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10064887/Crisis-Koreatown-Video-shows-homeless-encampment-bustling-Los-Angeles-neighborhood.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10064887/Crisis-Koreatown-Video-shows-homeless-encampment-bustling-Los-Angeles-neighborhood.html)",
"Yes it is still satire, satire doesn't have to be incorrect weirdly enough",
"It is coming from someone tired of people like you who attack anyone that dares provide data that makes the US look better. That is what the replies are all about. I am replying to someone claiming 20% of the US is starving. An asinine statement that is easily disproven and people providing nothing are attacking me with straw men bullshit, zero understanding of what starvation is, or simply the idea they don't like what I stated for no other reason than they simply want to believe 20% of the US is starving. You really think that isn't coming from a place of hatred towards the US?\n\nIf you can't see the comments are clear US hatred you are blind. Yet it's reddit. You don't need to be a detective to realize the bias many here have against the US. It is as bad if not worst than the nationalism you deride, often coming from people pushing their own nationalistic bullshit.",
"The OP said \"No one dies of starvation\". No one means Zero. \"So low there's no data to publish\" means > 0, therefore not \"no one\".",
"Because it is? It's largely about the healthiness and consistency (varied vs unvaried) of diets in the household. Low food security includes having to use food stamps, less varied diets, and community kitchens. Only very low food security really has people that reduce their food intake, and that's measuring if anyone in a household has done it at all in the last few months. That's a minority of food insecurity cases, where the majority is dealing with healthiness and consistency of diet.\n\nAlso, hunger is measured separately from food insecurity, because they aren't the same.",
"Ah i didn't know there were multiple people for one role",
"😂🤣🤡",
"“Front page subreddits filled with left-leaning material as the norm on Reddit” and that’s Joe Rogan’s target audience?? In what reality??? 😂🤣",
"You're right that was someone else. They were wrong and you seem to be supporting what they said, so you're also wrong. What you linked proves yourself wrong.\n\n\n\nSee how easy it is to say \"woops I made a mistake\" and just move the fuck on?",
"Which is fine. It’s not like Joe doesn’t speak to intelligent people. It’s that a bunch of them have their own motivations.\n\nJordan Peterson has some Kuku ideas, doesn’t mean he isn’t highly educated in other areas. Doesn’t mean listening to his lectures is less interesting either.\n\nThe problem is that most people take one guy they like and treat their speech as gospel.",
"You really need to learn that those words absolutely apply. Look at the comments and subreddits that make it to the top of r/all then check back.",
"I don't do anything to the homeless. I am simply refuting your statement. You are either a liar or ignorant. Deal with it.",
"Here’s a map of food deserts in the USA - which (according to the source) accounts for where over 12% of the US population lives. \n\nhttps://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts\n\nSince it’s not even a term and phenomena that exists in other developed countries, I would suggest even 1% of the population being impacted would be much too much.",
"I don't know, he has taken out a lot of loans with Amazon stock as collateral. If that collateral suddenly disappears...",
"Got it, then I think the link you’re responding to might be using a different definition (pasted below). Though it seems quality of food is a factor (in one place they note that eating a less varied diet may be a coping strategy), they seem to be focusing mainly on quantity.\n\nFood insecure—At times during the year, these households were uncertain of having, or unable to acquire, enough food to meet the needs of all their members because they had insufficient money or other resources for food. Food-insecure households include those with low food security and very low food security.",
">Why is it mute? What are you talking about?\n\nmoot\n\n>That's one of the criticisms. It's not being used here and Alabama is not gaming a metric. Keep up.\n\nWho claimed any gaming of a metric? Context please. \n\n>That's fine. Please elaborate.\n\nlulz! I already did.\n\n>Right but we should use more pertinent ones. \n\nHow do you determine which is more pertinent?\n\n>You using the gdp is the equivalent of saying an area has an average income of 200k when it's 4 people making 10k and one making 950k. A more pertinent would be a median income.\n\nI didnt use GDP. Youre the one here advocating it shouldnt be used though. \n\n>Gdp is not a good representative by almost any measure regarding well being of a society. Hence Alabama has 3rd world equivalent areas.\n\nWhat measures are you referring to that GDP is a poor representation?\n\n>GDP only counts goods that pass through official, organized markets, so it misses home production and black market activity. ...\n\nwhat black market activity are you claiming exist in alabama that would skew the use of GDP as a measure? \n\n> If two economies have the same GDP per capita, but one has polluted air and water while the other doesn't, well-being will be different but GDP per capita won't capture it.\n\nBut as i pointed out by economist HDI does a very poor job of catching such a measure and is absolutely subjective when it comes to determinations of poverty. \n\n>One of the main problems with GDP per capita is that it doesn't account for any inequality within a society. ... \n\nand HDI doesnt account for that any better. I already pointed that out. \n\n>Another central problem with using GDP per capita as a measure of quality of life is the oversimplification which it represents.\n\nand as pointed out HDI makes broad assumptions on unrelated or subjective data to arrive at such conclusions.",
"You refuted absolutely nothing. All you did was post the single fucking news about homeless people in Germany FOR YEARS and that now somehow compares to the cluster fuck of tent cities that you guys have. LMAO. COPE.",
"Next time just say thank you to us for letting you be a country.",
"Cope.",
"Nazi",
"They happen in Germany. The difference is that it’s criminalized, so the police routinely evict the homeless.\n\nhttps://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte/polizei-unterstuetzt-ordnungsaemter-bei-kontrollen-im-tiergarten\n\nHere’s some…",
"Racist warmonger.",
"Holy cow, did OP get fact checked so hard they deleted their account?",
"don't be so hard on yourself like that.",
"That argument is such a bad meme, it's hard to believe anybody would still use it in good faith.",
"In the US? They sure do. They even get whole districts to themselves, how generous.",
"In Germany.",
"\n>moot\n\nYes I was quoting your saying mute and did not correct. \n>\n>>That's one of the criticisms. It's not being used here and Alabama is not gaming a metric. Keep up.\n>\n>Who claimed any gaming of a metric? Context please. \n\nIt's one of the criticisms. Did you not read your own post. \n>\n>>That's fine. Please elaborate.\n>\n>lulz! I already did.\n\nAnd I answered all of them. If you had more you need to elaborate. \n>\n>>Right but we should use more pertinent ones. \n>\n>How do you determine which is more pertinent?\n\nThat's a judgment call. Something that only takes into account goods and not health of people is obviously failing. \n>\n>>You using the gdp is the equivalent of saying an area has an average income of 200k when it's 4 people making 10k and one making 950k. A more pertinent would be a median income.\n>\n>I didnt use GDP. Youre the one here advocating it shouldnt be used though. \n\nYou posted that about gdp and asked for something better which I gave you. \n>\n>>Gdp is not a good representative by almost any measure regarding well being of a society. Hence Alabama has 3rd world equivalent areas.\n>\n>What measures are you referring to that GDP is a poor representation?\n\nAlready explained. \n>\n>>GDP only counts goods that pass through official, organized markets, so it misses home production and black market activity. ...\n>\n>what black market activity are you claiming exist in alabama that would skew the use of GDP as a measure? \n\nIt's a criticism. \n>\n>> If two economies have the same GDP per capita, but one has polluted air and water while the other doesn't, well-being will be different but GDP per capita won't capture it.\n>\n>But as i pointed out by economist HDI does a very poor job of catching such a measure and is absolutely subjective when it comes to determinations of poverty. \n\nIt captures poverty and health of people much better than gdp. So again your criticism is that it does something better than a gdp measure. \n\n>\n>>One of the main problems with GDP per capita is that it doesn't account for any inequality within a society. ... \n>\n>and HDI doesnt account for that any better. I already pointed that out. \n\nHealthcare access and well being of people portrays this much better than cost of goods sold. \n>\n>>Another central problem with using GDP per capita as a measure of quality of life is the oversimplification which it represents.\n>\n>and as pointed out HDI makes broad assumptions on unrelated or subjective data to arrive at such conclusions.\n\nIt brings a variety of metrics to measure. Gdp doesn't captured poison water HDI does.",
">Maybe you're a poor writer who needs to work on articulating their thoughts. Or maybe you just wanted to throw out some zingers against American foreign policy and are now getting defensive once those points are questioned.\n\nhahahahaha I am getting defensive... hahahahahahaha Your comprehension level is dropping by the comment.",
"Does it hurt to be that much in denial?",
">I have no responsibility to educate you on the subject matter.\n\nagain, What about my comment showed I was uneducated on the subject?\n\nContext please.\n\n> It's your personal responsibility to inform yourself on the subject. \n\nwhat is it youre claiming Im not informed on? Explain yourself!\n\n>If you're not able to keep up with current material \n\nWhat material are you claiming is current? \n\n>then your comments are invalid and will be ignored. \n\nWhat comments are those? \n\n>Please continue to be an idiot but refrain from commenting due to your lack of knowledge.\n\nAgain, please point out what it is youre claiming I have no knowledge of. Seriously, you should be at a point now you are able to rationally discuss the topic in an adult manner.",
"No, look at the definitions for low and very low food security, which comprise food insecurity.\n\nAnd then look at the definition for food security, which emphasizes enough food for an active, healthy lifestyle.",
"Yap, not only comparable, but actually much worse than this:\n\n[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\\_of\\_tent\\_cities\\_in\\_the\\_United\\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tent_cities_in_the_United_States)\n\n[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10064887/Crisis-Koreatown-Video-shows-homeless-encampment-bustling-Los-Angeles-neighborhood.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10064887/Crisis-Koreatown-Video-shows-homeless-encampment-bustling-Los-Angeles-neighborhood.html)\n\nLMAO",
"Read back the comments if you are unable to deduce where your lack of knowledge is then you shouldn't be commenting. It's not my responsibility to hold your hand and baby you in order to educate you. Its your personal responsibility to be informed before commenting. You are not and thus your opinions are invalid. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions.",
"Oh, I 100% agree. They live in a fantasy world where they think ideological change can lead to a utopia.",
"I mean, if I was a person struggling to make ends meet, being stressed out and tired all the time would probably make me kinda just grab something quick after work, maybe a Mountain Dew just to brighten my day up. \n\nAlso, poor neighborhoods don’t always have convenient necessities like grocery stores within reasonable distances, so a bodega is all you get. They only build costcos in high income areas after all",
"It is impossible to argue with someone if you keep inventing your opponents arguments. Where did 20% come from? You, misreading a satire video. Calm down you twat. Let me know when you do. otherwise I think you'd do best arguing without me. You seem pretty skilled arguing with yourself.",
">Yes I was quoting your saying mute and did not correct.\n\nand I clarified. \n\n>It's one of the criticisms. Did you not read your own post.\n\nI did. criticism by who?\n\n>And I answered all of them. If you had more you need to elaborate.\n\nYou did not. \n\n>That's a judgment call. Something that only takes into account goods and not health of people is obviously failing.\n\nSo, its your judgement call we should use HDI instead of GDP? A random guy on reddit?\n\n>You posted that about gdp \n\nNo i didnt. \n\n>and asked for something better which I gave you.\n\nAnd Im asking why its better. \n\n>Already explained.\n\nAnd I did the same for HDI\n\n>It's a criticism.\n\nSo, the criticism you brought up as to why GDP is a bad measure doesn't exist.\n\n>It captures poverty and health of people much better than gdp. \n\nbased on what?\n\n>So again your criticism is that it does something better than a gdp measure.\n\nBut thats you claiming it does something better than GDP.\n\n>Healthcare access and well being of people portrays this much better than cost of goods sold.\n\nBut HDI admittedly makes broad assumptions regarding such access that leads to overly broad measures.\n\n>It brings a variety of metrics to measure. \n\na variety of assumptions based on very subjective data.\n\n>Gdp doesn't captured poison water HDI does.\n\nAgain, a very subjective measure.",
">Read back the comments if you are unable to deduce where your lack of knowledge is then you shouldn't be commenting. \n\nbut you are the one making the claim. Why cant you intelligently explain what you are talking about?\n\n>It's not my responsibility to hold your hand and baby you in order to educate you. \n\nWhy is it not your responsibility to explain your own accusations?\n\n>Its your personal responsibility to be informed before commenting. \n\nBut you are the one claiming Im uninformed. What are you talking about?\n\n>You are not and thus your opinions are invalid.\n\nBut this is just your opinion and youve yet to adequately explain what opinions of mine are invalid and why.\n\n> Grow up and take responsibility for your actions.\n\nWhat actions is it are you suggesting I take responsibility for? Why are you going to such lengths to avoid explaining anything you've argued here.",
"You are simply JAQing off yourself at this point. You're quite obviously uninformed and I have no responsibility to take that from you. You are informed that your opinion is worthless and should take steps to educate yourself. Your failure to do so speaks volumes as the failure of who you are as a person and I pity you.",
"don't kid yourself. There was no argument here. It was me providing facts refuting a statement from someone else (and I quote \"the stats about us literally starving are real.\") and you stating idiotic bullshit. This is someone playing with is food, nothing more. Since you aren't the sharpest tool, I will reveal the mystery for you - you are the food.",
"You are taking about a singular instance. Real or not, that's not statistically significant. The entire point of the \"anecdotes are not evidence\" argument",
"i mean shit, i believe in it. i just dont think its every happening in my lifetime.",
"You just ate shit, and pretended it tasted like chocolate. Nice. I'm not buying it. \n\n>Porter told CNN during a Thursday interview that the woman, whom she called \"Patricia,\" was a hypothetical person who represented multiple stories that have been heard by her office.\n\n>She is \"a representative of a number of constituents that we'd heard from,\" Porter said.\n\n>However, Porter described an actual job listing during the hearing that was shared on Monster.com and advertises a bank teller position paying an hourly wage of $16.50.\n\n>\"So there is no Patricia out there,\" Porter said, \"but in the other way, there are thousands and thousands, and tens of thousands of Patricias out there.\"",
"We used WIC and Medicaid. They were a bit tough to get into initially (we needed to go into the field office and fax in proof of income documents, etc), but my understanding is that stuff it easier to do now. Once we were in, it was really easy to use the benefits each month. Medicaid honestly was a godsend. No insurance I've ever dealt with was close to as easy to use as Medicaid. WIC was great as well. Most grocers do a good job of labeling which foods are WIC compatible, and WIC provides a lot of good selection these days. We were able to cover basically all of our medical bills, and most of our food bills with those two programs.",
"\n>\n>and I clarified. \n\nFor no reason as I had clearly interpreted your lack of checking your post already. \n>\n>>It's one of the criticisms. Did you not read your own post.\n>\n>I did. criticism by who?\n\nWhoever you copy pasted from. \n\n>\n>>And I answered all of them. If you had more you need to elaborate.\n>\n>You did not. \n\nI did. \n>\n>>That's a judgment call. Something that only takes into account goods and not health of people is obviously failing.\n>\n>So, its your judgement call we should use HDI instead of GDP? A random guy on reddit?\n\nAll economist that understand there's more than just gdp when taking in the health of a countries people. \n>\n>>You posted that about gdp \n>\n>No i didnt. \n\nYou asked for a better measure and I gave you one to do it by. You're welcome to come up with your own but unlikely it will be used by the UN. \n>\n>>and asked for something better which I gave you.\n>\n>And Im asking why its better. \n\nBeen explained. \n>\n>>Already explained.\n>\n>And I did the same for HDI\n\nYou copy pasted someone which is nice but clearly you did not read it. \n>\n>>It's a criticism.\n>\n>So, the criticism you brought up as to why GDP is a bad measure doesn't exist.\n\nIt's one part of the criticisms. You're fixated on the wrong point. \n>\n>>It captures poverty and health of people much better than gdp. \n>\n>based on what?\n\nBased on taking in more account than the selling of goods. Are you that dumb you can't interpolate. \n\nThe Human Development Index (HDI) is a statistic composite index of [life expectancy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy), [education](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education) (mean years of schooling completed and expected years of schooling upon entering the education system), and [per capita income](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income) indicators, which are used to rank countries into four tiers of [human development](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_development_(humanity\\)). A country scores a higher HDI when the [lifespan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy_at_birth) is higher, the [education](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education) level is higher, and the gross national income [GNI (PPP) per capita](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNI_(PPP\\)_per_capita) is higher. It was developed by Pakistani economist [Mahbub ul Haq](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahbub_ul_Haq) and was further used to measure a country's development by the United Nations Development Programme ([UNDP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNDP))'s Human Development Report Office.[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#cite_note-1)[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#cite_note-2)[[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#cite_note-auto-3)\n\n>\n>>So again your criticism is that it does something better than a gdp measure.\n>\n>But thats you claiming it does something better than GDP.\n\nCorrect as well as many economist. \n>\n>>Healthcare access and well being of people portrays this much better than cost of goods sold.\n>\n>But HDI admittedly makes broad assumptions regarding such access that leads to overly broad measures.\n\nIt does but is a better measure than gdp per capita which takes into account money made by a corporation in an area. As said before 1 million and 5 people living in the dirt and your measure make it looks like everyone is happy and healthy when only one is. Even more so when much of the excess gdp goes to shareholders and not local employees. \n>\n>>It brings a variety of metrics to measure. \n>\n>a variety of assumptions based on very subjective data.\n>\n>>Gdp doesn't captured poison water HDI does.\n>\n>Again, a very subjective measure.\n\nIt is but it does a better job of analysis than simple 1 millionaire in an area brings up the quality of life of an area when it does not. That's gdp per capita. \n\nLifespan is not subjective. Years of education are not subjective. PPI is not subjective. \n\nAll those areas Alabama is a failure in. Life span Alabama 75.1 years. Life span in California 80.9 years. By simply living not in Alabama the average person lives 6 years longer that's pretty amazing.",
"Good discussion, thanks!",
"\"You are the food\"? Are you hungry or something? or perhaps.. starving? I'm done here. You're welcome to keep arguing with yourself, I won't reply.",
"Genuinely curious where you'd find one of those in Atlanta. I live here and the only time I've been more than 15min from a grocery store is out in the country.",
">You are simply JAQing off yourself at this point.\n\nWhy are you simply unable to explain your accusations?\n\n> You're quite obviously uninformed and I have no responsibility to take that from you. \n\nBut youre the one claiming im uninformed and you refuse to explain what youre talking about. \n\n>You are informed that your opinion is worthless and should take steps to educate yourself. \n\nBut you are the one claiming my opinion is worthless and have yet to explain why. \n\n>Your failure to do so speaks volumes as the failure of who you are as a person and I pity you.\n\nHow can I take steps to become better informed if you dont explain your accusations that Im uninformed? \n\nHelp me help you ..",
"What the fuck are you on about? \"This made up thing represents thousands of people\" Who exactly? Again, no statistics. I'm not gonna buy some hypothetical",
"Otherwise legit charities are to blame. People are more likely to give if they use words like hunger. “Donate to kids who have low quality food options and poor nutrition” isn’t half as compelling as “20 MILLION CHILDREN GO TO SLEEP HUNGRY”",
"Anyone without autism knows what I meant",
"That’s literally all it is. And it’s a problem, but quite literally a first world problem.",
"Go back and read your original comment. It's simply wrong. There that should put you in the right direction. Now go forth and educate thyself. For someone that is about personal responsibility you sure do have to led by the nose to even figure out anything. It's really pretty pathetic b",
"I pay 1800 in a major city and have 1,200 sqft, 1,800 is a lot",
"Uh, no one made them move there in the first place. Even with shortages rn 1,800 gets you a pretty danm nice one bedroom.",
"&#x200B;\n\n>For no reason as I had clearly interpreted your lack of checking your post already.\n\nover the word mute instead of moot? What in hell are you ranting about here?\n\n>Whoever you copy pasted from.\n\nWho did I copy/paste from? Again, what are you even talking about at this point?\n\n>I did.\n\nYou said they adjusted the formula and I pointed out its still flawed according to many economist and still relies on overly vague data to make broad assumptions that are often very subjective on the interpretations of the individual.\n\n>All economist that understand there's more than just gdp when taking in the health of a countries people.\n\nSo, all economist who dont agree with HDI as an adequate measure dont count.\n\n>You asked for a better measure and I gave you one to do it by. You're welcome to come up with your own but unlikely it will be used by the UN.\n\nBut IM not the one who posted GDP. You claimed GDP was a very flawed measure and then provided arguably an even more flawed measure in HDI.\n\n>Been explained.\n\nCause you say so. \n\n>You copy pasted someone which is nice but clearly you did not read it.\n\nI did read it though and is there anything about it youre claiming is incorrect or disputing?\n\n>It's one part of the criticisms. You're fixated on the wrong point.\n\nI fixated on the one you provided that you cant support exists. Feel free to provide another that you can substantiate.\n\n>Based on taking in more account than the selling of goods. Are you that dumb you can't interpolate.\n\nBut I already pointed out much of the data is overly subjective and leads to overly broad assumptions that most of the time cant be repeated or validated. \n\n>Correct as well as many economist.\n\nbut there are many who point out is severely flawed. \n\n>It does but is a better measure than gdp per capita which takes into account money made by a corporation in an area. \n\nSo, whats the point of a measure if that measure isnt accurate or based on objective data?\n\n>It is but it does a better job of analysis than simple 1 millionaire in an area brings up the quality of life of an area when it does not. That's gdp per capita.\n\nagain, a very subjective measure based overly vague data. Whats the point of a measure if its extremely unreliable\n\n>Lifespan is not subjective. Years of education are not subjective. PPI is not subjective.\n\nand your point here?\n\n>All those areas Alabama is a failure in. \n\nHow do you determine what measured result is a failure and a success? \n\n>Life span Alabama 75.1 years. Life span in California 80.9 years. By simply living not in Alabama the average person lives 6 years longer that's pretty amazing.\n\nthere are a multitude of factors that lead to such varying results. Heredity, obesity, culture to name a few. Not sure how youre trying to sum that all up as success/fail.",
"\n>over the word mute instead of moot? What in hell are you ranting about here?\n\nSeems you're very touchy about your lack of proof reading. \n\n>\n>>Whoever you copy pasted from.\n>\n>Who did I copy/paste from? Again, what are you even talking about at this point?\n\nMan are you stupid? You copy pasted arguments against it and thats what's being referenced. Can you not keep things straight? Reread if you have to so I don't have to babysit you. \n\n>\n>>I did.\n>\n>You said they adjusted the formula and I pointed out its still flawed according to many economist and still relies on overly vague data to make broad assumptions that are often very subjective on the interpretations of the individual.\n\nI showed they weren't broad assumptions. Your copy paste argument had 3 criticisms all of which have been addressed. \n\n\n>\n>>All economist that understand there's more than just gdp when taking in the health of a countries people.\n>\n>So, all economist who dont agree with HDI as an adequate measure dont count.\n\nNo...yet another logical fallacy argument you're making. Pathetic. Anyway most agree that gdp per capita is one of the worse measures for measuring health of a society. \n\n>\n>>You asked for a better measure and I gave you one to do it by. You're welcome to come up with your own but unlikely it will be used by the UN.\n>\n>But IM not the one who posted GDP. You claimed GDP was a very flawed measure and then provided arguably an even more flawed measure in HDI.\n\nIt's less flawed thank you. \n\n>\n>>Been explained.\n>\n>Cause you say so. \n\nYep but you have a hard time reading I've noticed. Didn't even read your own posts. \n\n>\n>>You copy pasted someone which is nice but clearly you did not read it.\n>\n>I did read it though and is there anything about it youre claiming is incorrect or disputing?\n\nYou seem to be unable to reference it after reading it. Are you sure you read it?Why don't you reread your article from 2011 again. \n\n>\n>>It's one part of the criticisms. You're fixated on the wrong point.\n>\n>I fixated on the one you provided that you cant support exists. Feel free to provide another that you can\n\nI made no reference to black markets in Alabama. It's one of many criticisms of gdp per capita. However if you can keep more than one sentence in your head at a time go ahead and read the rest of that comment. \n\n>\n>>Based on taking in more account than the selling of goods. Are you that dumb you can't interpolate.\n>\n>But I already pointed out much of the data is overly subjective and leads to overly broad assumptions that most of the time cant be repeated or validated. \n\nWhich data?\n\n>\n>>Correct as well as many economist.\n>\n>but there are many who point out is severely flawed. \n\nYes they say it's flawed and those criticisms have been addressed. One being moot. One being Alabama isn't trying to game the hdi. One being better analysis of the data. \n>\n>>It does but is a better measure than gdp per capita which takes into account money made by a corporation in an area. \n>\n>So, whats the point of a measure if that measure isnt accurate or based on objective data?\n\nIt is objective data. \n>\n>>It is but it does a better job of analysis than simple 1 millionaire in an area brings up the quality of life of an area when it does not. That's gdp per capita.\n>\n>again, a very subjective measure based overly vague data. Whats the point of a measure if its extremely unreliable\n>\n>>Lifespan is not subjective. Years of education are not subjective. PPI is not subjective.\n>\n>and your point here?\n\nThose are data points for hdi. Are you not even understanding what you're arguing against. Jeez you can't be this dumb. Those are non subjective data that the hdi uses. That makes your whole argument invalid. \n\n\n>\n>>All those areas Alabama is a failure in. \n>\n>How do you determine what measured result is a failure and a success? \n\nBy lifespan. By education. By literacy rate. \n>\n>>Life span Alabama 75.1 years. Life span in California 80.9 years. By simply living not in Alabama the average person lives 6 years longer that's pretty amazing.\n>\n>there are a multitude of factors that lead to such varying results. Heredity, obesity, culture to name a few. Not sure how youre trying to sum that all up as success/fail.\n\nWe can see that that part of the country is a failure at providing for the health of its citizens. \n\nAgain you have failed at your gdp per capita criticisms as well. Please explain how a corporation that has high gdp in Alabama yet the excess wealth goes to shareholders and not employees benefits the area. As that adds much to gdp but little to the welfare of the inhabitants.",
"I think that it’s not way more expensive. I think it’s comparable.\nIf it were way cheaper to eat healthily then people would do so.\nIt’s cheaper to eat healthier, largely unpalatable food sure. If that’s your point then it’s kinda moot.",
"Okay we'll try another way.\n\nIf it's making it to the top of r/all, which shows the most upvoted and popular posts in this community: is it extremist, or the norm around here? Because extremist literally means the opposite of the norm.\n\nI can not walk you any further up to the water. Up to you to learn how to drink.",
"You're not very clear in your comments so fuck yourself for getting pissed off that people don't understand you. \n\nThe organization that funds this commercial is not satire. You got a source that says this is satire?\n\nFuck your low horse bullshit.",
">Go back and read your original comment. It's simply wrong. \n\n wrong how? Please explain your accusations of such.\n\n>There that should put you in the right direction.\n\nbut its you claiming Im wrong and not offering up any explanation as to why.\n\n> Now go forth and educate thyself. \n\nyoure the one claiming Im uneducated on the subject but refuse to explain yourself. Could you please do that?\n\n> For someone that is about personal responsibility you sure do have to led by the nose to even figure out anything.\n\nShould you not then show some personal responsibility here and explain your accusations that Im wrong and uneducated?\n\n> It's really pretty pathetic b\n\nIm starting to think the same about you going to great lengths to explain your accusations.",
"I am German and I do not claim to have seen every single commercial on German TV lol \n\nThe FACT of the matter is that greatnationseat.org is not a satirical organization. So why would they put their name at the end of a satirical commercial?\n\nI do no trust yours or your friend's reading comprehension or research skills if you did not catch that part at the end.",
"Hunger is not an issue in the world today, obesity is. Proper nutrition is a matter of self-responsibility.",
"As said before its your personal responsibility to be educated your inability to do so means you're not important to the conversation and your opinions are discarded. This will continue to happen until you take responsibility, grow up and educate yourself. \n\nIt's hilarious how you just want someone to hold your hand. You have already been shown where to start. Now try.",
"You no longer disagree with what I am saying, so I dont understand why you are continuing being standoffish. That being said this is a good point to stop. I hope you have a good day.",
"&#x200B;\n\n>Seems you're very touchy about your lack of proof reading.\n\nbut you are the one getting all upset over it. and youve yet to explain what you were talking about. \n\n>Man are you stupid? You copy pasted arguments against it and thats what's being referenced. Can you not keep things straight? Reread if you have to so I don't have to babysit you.\n\nSo, are you claiming any the issues with HDI are incorrect or are you just complaining that I pointed out those issues?\n\n>I showed they weren't broad assumptions. Your copy paste argument had 3 criticisms all of which have been addressed.\n\nso again, are you just complaining about me pointing out the issues with HDI measurments?\n\n>No...yet another logical fallacy argument you're making. Pathetic. \n\nbut thats what you just tried to argue. Theres no fallacy in my pointing out what youre doing. \n\n>Anyway most agree that gdp per capita is one of the worse measures for measuring health of a society.\n\nHow did you determine most economist agree on this? \n\n>It's less flawed thank you.\n\nHow did you determine is lessed flawed and hence a more suitable measure?\n\n>Yep but you have a hard time reading I've noticed. Didn't even read your own posts.\n\nSo, you issue is me questioning you and the validity of your claims.\n\n>You seem to be unable to reference it after reading it.\n\nHow am I unable to reference it if I already did?\n\n> Are you sure you read it?Why don't you reread your article from 2011 again.\n\nWhy do I need to re-read it? Is there something about it you want to discusss in greater detail?\n\n>I made no reference to black markets in Alabama. It's one of many criticisms of gdp per capita.\n\nSo, you bring up a flaw of GDP as a measurement but have no clue if that flaw even exist then get upset when I ask you to provide an example of your claim?\n\n> However if you can keep more than one sentence in your head at a time go ahead and read the rest of that comment.\n\nI did. I didnt see any example of a black markets that would skew the results.\n\n>Which data?\n\nThe data that goes in the the formulas the compose HDI. Please keep up!\n\n>Yes they say it's flawed and those criticisms have been addressed. One being moot.\n\nwhy is it moot? and what do you mean such criticism was addressed?\n\n> One being Alabama isn't trying to game the hdi. One being better analysis of the data.\n\nand the criticisms were in regard to the so called better analysis of the data.\n\n>It is objective data.\n\nIts not objective data. \n\n>Those are data points for hdi.\n\nthat are overly vague and the interpretation of that data very subjective. \n\n> Are you not even understanding what you're arguing against. \n\nIm pointing out HDI is just as flawed as GDP which you claimed wasnt an adequate measure. \n\n> Jeez you can't be this dumb. Those are non subjective data that the hdi uses. That makes your whole argument invalid.\n\nIve already pointed out the subjective data used to determine HDI results. \n\n>By lifespan. By education. By literacy rate.\n\nAgain, already pointed out there are a multitude of factors that lead to those resutls. but youve yet to explain how you determine what result is a success or failure.\n\n>We can see that that part of the country is a failure at providing for the health of its citizens.\n\nAgain, by what metric are you using to determine what value is a failure and what is a success?\n\n>Again you have failed at your gdp per capita criticisms as well. \n\nwhat criticism was that?\n\n>Please explain how a corporation that has high gdp in Alabama yet the excess wealth goes to shareholders and not employees benefits the area. As that adds much to gdp but little to the welfare of the inhabitants.\n\nThese corporations pay state and local tax that benefit the area. The corporations employs people in that area, these people buy goods which lead to other businesses providing such goods and services which lead to more tax revenu and so forth.",
">As said before its your personal responsibility to be educated your inability to do so means you're not important to the conversation and your opinions are discarded.\n\nbut how am I suppose to educate myself on accusations of me being uneducated on the subject if you refuser to explain what you mean? \n\n> This will continue to happen until you take responsibility, grow up and educate yourself.\n\nWhat is it I should be taking responsibility for?\n\n>It's hilarious how you just want someone to hold your hand.\n\nBy holding my hand do you mean asking you to explain your accusations that Im wrong and uneducated?\n\n> You have already been shown where to start. Now try.\n\nI havent been shown anything. Youre the one making the claims but refuse to explain yourself. Why cant you simply do that?",
"Sorry I meant Syria. Point is, they weren't wiped out like leftist media said they would be. It wasn't a genocide. \n\nAs for the USA today link, I said to Google it.",
"\n>\n>but you are the one getting all upset over it. and youve yet to explain what you were talking about. \n\nYou're the one that keeps bringing it up. \n>\n>>Man are you stupid? You copy pasted arguments against it and thats what's being referenced. Can you not keep things straight? Reread if you have to so I don't have to babysit you.\n>\n>So, are you claiming any the issues with HDI are incorrect or are you just complaining that I pointed out those issues?\n\nNo you keep asking what I'm talking about with your copy pasting an argument. I keep having to explain to you what it's in reference to. Seriously it makes you look very dumb. And now continue to look dumb as you misconstrue what I say. \n>\n>>I showed they weren't broad assumptions. Your copy paste argument had 3 criticisms all of which have been addressed.\n>\n>so again, are you just complaining about me pointing out the issues with HDI measurments?\n\nNope your copy paste argument was already refuted try again. \n>\n>>No...yet another logical fallacy argument you're making. Pathetic. \n>\n>but thats what you just tried to argue. Theres no fallacy in my pointing out what youre doing. \n\nNope you put words in my mouth saying all economist think that. It again makes you look dumb. Try again. \n\n>\n>>Anyway most agree that gdp per capita is one of the worse measures for measuring health of a society.\n>\n>How did you determine most economist agree on this? \n\nBy high level criticism in studies. Almost none are proponents of it as a measure of health of society or do you have a study saying it's the best measure? Please back up your point with data. \n\n>\n>>It's less flawed thank you.\n>\n>How did you determine is lessed flawed and hence a more suitable measure?\n\nBy its ability to take into account things besides sales of goods. \n>\n>>Yep but you have a hard time reading I've noticed. Didn't even read your own posts.\n>\n>So, you issue is me questioning you and the validity of your claims.\n\nNo, your inability to have recall one or two posts before. Its like having a conversation with a toddler. \n\n\n>\n>>You seem to be unable to reference it after reading it.\n>\n>How am I unable to reference it if I already did?\n\nYou referenced it and then completely forgot the arguments. Like a goldfish. \n>\n>> Are you sure you read it?Why don't you reread your article from 2011 again.\n>\n>Why do I need to re-read it? Is there something about it you want to discusss in greater detail?\n\nBecause you're unable to recall one or two posts away. Hence like talking to a toddler. \n>\n>>I made no reference to black markets in Alabama. It's one of many criticisms of gdp per capita.\n>\n>So, you bring up a flaw of GDP as a measurement but have no clue if that flaw even exist then get upset when I ask you to provide an example of your claim?\n\nNo, I asked you to read the other flaws of gdp instead of focusing on the one that makes the least sense to argue about. Damn you're dumb. \n\n>\n>> However if you can keep more than one sentence in your head at a time go ahead and read the rest of that comment.\n>\n>I did. I didnt see any example of a black markets that would skew the results.\n\nNope, you didn't read the other flaws. Go back and read. Lol you say you did and then as proof show you did not. Hahahaha. \n>\n>>Which data?\n>\n>The data that goes in the the formulas the compose HDI. Please keep up!\n\nShow me. I showed you the data. It's not subjective. Try again your argument as fallen apart. \n\n>\n>>Yes they say it's flawed and those criticisms have been addressed. One being moot.\n>\n>why is it moot? and what do you mean such criticism was addressed?\n\nReread previous posts. \n\n\n>\n>> One being Alabama isn't trying to game the hdi. One being better analysis of the data.\n>\n>and the criticisms were in regard to the so called better analysis of the data.\n>\n>>It is objective data.\n>\n>Its not objective data. \n>\n>>Those are data points for hdi.\n>\n>that are overly vague and the interpretation of that data very subjective. \n\nLife span, literacy rate, years of education, PPI. Show me which are vague. Man you're scared huh. Your argument completely fell apart. \n>\n>> Are you not even understanding what you're arguing against. \n>\n>Im pointing out HDI is just as flawed as GDP which you claimed wasnt an adequate measure. \n\nIt's flawed but gives a better picture than sales of goods. \n>\n>> Jeez you can't be this dumb. Those are non subjective data that the hdi uses. That makes your whole argument invalid.\n>\n>Ive already pointed out the subjective data used to determine HDI results. \n\nNo you haven't. Why are they subjective? \n\n\n>\n>>By lifespan. By education. By literacy rate.\n>\n>Again, already pointed out there are a multitude of factors that lead to those resutls. but youve yet to explain how you determine what result is a success or failure.\n\n\n>\n>>We can see that that part of the country is a failure at providing for the health of its citizens.\n>\n>Again, by what metric are you using to determine what value is a failure and what is a success?\n\nYou measure the health of your society. That's the way to do it. Alabama is a failure in that regard. \n>\n>>Again you have failed at your gdp per capita criticisms as well. \n>\n>what criticism was that?\n>\n>>Please explain how a corporation that has high gdp in Alabama yet the excess wealth goes to shareholders and not employees benefits the area. As that adds much to gdp but little to the welfare of the inhabitants.\n>\n>These corporations pay state and local tax that benefit the area. The corporations employs people in that area, these people buy goods which lead to other businesses providing such goods and services which lead to more tax revenu and so forth.\n\nDoesn't matter if the wealth is captured by shareholders. Someone Making 8 dollars an hour while at a store with a revenue of 10 million when the profit is extracted for shareholder value. The gdp shows the store revenue while the only local income is 8 dollar/hr employee. My criticism remains valid. Try again. You're just showing you don't understand the measurements at all.",
"So you're saying that reading the FAQ and side bar proves the claim that \"Anti work is about 5% people who truly want to reform the way we work. The other 95% are the just people who think they deserve everything but shouldn't have to contribute.\" \n\nEven as, as we both now have read, the FAQ says:\n\n> \"Anti-labor\" makes us sound like we're against any effort at all and we already get that enough as is. (We're not, by the way.)\n\nand\n\n> If you define \"work\" as any activity or purposeful intent towards some goal, then sure. That's not how we define it though. We're not against effort, labor, or being productive. We're against jobs as they are structured under capitalism and the state: Against exploitative economic relations, against hierarchical social relations at the workplace.\n\nSurely this is not what you have in mind. Less skimming thru articles, searching only for what already supports your ideas please.",
"\n>\n>but how am I suppose to educate myself on accusations of me being uneducated on the subject if you refuser to explain what you mean? \n\nYou have been given the info that you're wrong. That's enough to begin\n\n\n>\n>What is it I should be taking responsibility for?\n\nYour education. \n>\n\n>\n>By holding my hand do you mean asking you to explain your accusations that Im wrong and uneducated?\n\nYes you want to be spoonfed as a baby. \n\n>\n>I havent been shown anything. Youre the one making the claims but refuse to explain yourself. Why cant you simply do that?\n\nYou've been pointed to the post that is wrong. You can begin there as a reference point.",
"He just said he's never seen it, I dunno man",
"Right. “Enough” generally refers to quantity. Both of those definitions reference a reduction in food intake, not just a reduction in quality or variety of food.\n\nI’m not saying that they don’t also take quality into account, as I mentioned before. But I think that’s inconsistent with your claim that “it’s all about quality of diet,” because it seems it’s mostly about having enough food, not just good enough food.\n\nI guess you could read references to lifestyles as implying that “enough” means “good enough” or “varied enough” and isn’t about quantity, but that’s a bit of a reach when both the low and very low food security definitions explicitly reference reduced food intake.\n\nI should note that I’m not very familiar with this field of study, so maybe you’re coming at this with more knowledge and using the terms as they are generally used instead of how they’re used here. I’m not saying that you’re wrong about what the words mean, just that this study seems to be using them differently (or it is using them the same as you but defining them poorly).",
"I was hungry but then I ate you alive. I like that you won't respond. The conversation without you will be way more compelling.",
"[http://redective.com/](http://redective.com/)\n\nA great tool to have.",
"it's easier to say \"hey look at that asshole rapper who endangers people in his audience\" than \"hey look at those 13 million asshole Texans who refuse to get vaccinated and thus are endangering everyone\"",
"didn't know there is a vaccine against lightning strikes. gonna ask my doctor for it",
"I believe you misunderstand the meaning of my message. My message was not meant to decry persons who make use of SNAP benefits, merely to point out that the majority *DO* do exactly that, and get something easy. This *getting something easy* culture mixed with our near raw unfettered capitalism is giving us major health problems like diabetes. \n\nThe people to blame here are:\n\nThe politicians who refuse to regulate the food industry and provide SNAP-like benefits for served meals or requiring more stringent employment laws forcing employers to pay employees fair wages\n\nThe voting public as a whole for electing this do-nothing politicians\n\nThe employers abusing wellfare benefits to underpay their employees and get richer off the back of the tax payers (some of whom are legit their own employees)\n\n\nA shame that all of the fixes are, *pipedreams* to the American public at large because all of them really do need changes.",
"Strikes cannot be organized through subreddits, thats just not how this works",
"Yeah, and then if you ask scientists, you get the real answer. Which is more than 20% of us are starving either because of food insecurity or poor diet.",
"Those are still distinct things though, communism is centered around workers. People would still work, hours would just be shorter and conditions better because so much work in this world is bullshit.",
"What I'm trying to say is a hamburger costs $1 and a salad costs $7. What's the homeless person going to do if he had $7.00? Do you think he'd get the salad, or 7 hamburgers?",
">\tYou have been given the info that you're wrong. That's enough to begin\n\nThe only info is you saying im wrong and you’ve provided no explanation as to how.\n\n>\tYour education\n\nIn regards to what? Again, please explain what you’re arguing here\n\n>\tYes you want to be spoonfed as a baby.\n\nDo you truly think me asking you to explain your accusation im wrong as being spoon-fed or merely asking you to explain what you mean?\n\nDo you often make outlandish claims then call someone a baby when they ask you to provide an explanation?\n\n>\tYou've been pointed to the post that is wrong. \n\nWhat’s wrong about it?\n\n>You can begin there as a reference point.\n\nBut you’re the one claiming it’s wrong. What do you mean",
"Not trying to be standoffish and I’ll reply out of courtesy.\nI suppose I’m not sure what the point is of what appeared to me to be a pendantic point you were making: that the monetary cost of healthy eating is comparable to junk food? Ok.\nWhat am I missing that this brings to the social problem of obesity in poor people?",
"But a hamburger is in no way the homeless person only option. That is a fallacy that was thrown out from the onset. No one is forcing the homeless individual to rely simply on fast food and no one is forcing that individual to gorge themselves on 7 hamburgers. \n\nAgain, obesity is a result of consuming far too many calories and not the result of simply eating fast food. There are countless individuals who fast fast that are not obese.",
"\n>The only info is you saying im wrong and you’ve provided no explanation as to how.\n\nYour post is short. Double check your statements. \n>\n>>\tYour education\n>\n>In regards to what? Again, please explain what you’re arguing here\n\nYou made uneducated claims that are wrong. \n>\n>>\tYes you want to be spoonfed as a baby.\n>\n>Do you truly think me asking you to explain your accusation im wrong as being spoon-fed or merely asking you to explain what you mean?\n\n>\n>Do you often make outlandish claims then call someone a baby when they ask you to provide an explanation?\n\n\nYes. You are a baby asking to be spoonfed. A more educated person would have already have researched and modified their assumptions. \n>\n>>\tYou've been pointed to the post that is wrong. \n>\n>What’s wrong about it?\n\nIt's wrong. \n\n>\n>>You can begin there as a reference point.\n>\n>But you’re the one claiming it’s wrong. What do you mean\n\nYou make incorrect claims. Educate yourself.",
">\tYour post is short. Double check your statements.\n\nWhat about it are you claiming is wrong? Use your words!\n\n>\tYou made uneducated claims that are wrong.\n\nWhich was and how? Use your words!\n\n>\tYes. You are a baby asking to be spoonfed. \n\nAsking you to explain your accusations is spoonfed? \n\n>A more educated person would have already have researched and modified their assumptions.\n\nBut what is it you’re claiming im uneducated about? \n\n>\tIt's wrong.\n\nWhat’s wrong about it?\n\n>\tYou make incorrect claims. Educate yourself.\n\nWhat claim was incorrect and how?",
"\"Sorry I meant something entirely different\" but here's your downvote because I'm a fucking idiot.\n\nThis is what is wrong with people on the internet, you cocksuckers have no accountability when you state wrong shit, made up shit, incorrect shit or malicious shit. Just like your shitty Faux and CNN propaganda channels where you're all fed fake news 24/7 and eat it up.",
"The country is irrelevant. They could be on the fucking moon. The point is that the propaganda and misinformation from leftist news sites swore that the Kurds would be annihilated and it didn't happen.\n\nYou even agreed with me and proved my point with your CNN comment. Both parties participate in misinformation and to act like it's only Republicans doing it is not only disingenuous, it is objectively false.",
"Repeat after me - \"food insecurity\" is NOT the same as \"literally starving.\" There are a WEALTH of resources, including at least two free meals a day for kids at school, for folks struggling to put food on the table.\n\nIt's literally what churches have been doing for thousands of years now. Note the proper use of literally.\n\nedit: Further, the thread is about a satirical video from Germany.",
"See all your statements are simple asking for the spoon. Guess you dont believe in personal responsibility at all.",
"If you think those two situations are remotely comparable, you have absolutely zero understanding of how multinational tax avoidance through Luxembourg works. Yet you defend the practise. It is amazing how conditioned people (assuming you aren't part of the Amazon astroturf machine) have become to multinational exploitation in the 21st century.",
"Your page links to a USDA paper with their definition of a [food desert](https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/93141/eib%20209%20summary.pdf?v=6115.7). According to them, a food desert is any urban area more than a mile from a grocery store, or any rural area 10 miles from a grocery store. \"food desert\" is a misleading term for this. The one mile urban standard is particularly silly: a mile is a 20 minute walk, a 10 minute bike ride, or a two minute bus ride if such a bus exists. I find it offensive to the human spirit to suggest people are unable to travel ten minutes in the pursuit of food. \n\nThe rural standard is also pretty silly. I've stayed with friends in areas where the closest grocery was more than 20 miles away. The solution is to buy groceries once per month. In the barren parts of the west, it's not as if there's anything else to buy on the way into town. You either drive into town to buy groceries or you starve to death. Everyone manages to survive, which makes me think they can all reach groceries.",
"\r \nYou're the one that keeps bringing it up.\r \nIm responding to you complaining. \r \nNo you keep asking what I'm talking about with your copy pasting an argument. I keep having to explain to you what it's in reference to. Seriously it makes you look very dumb. And now continue to look dumb as you misconstrue what I say.\r \nBut Im not copy pasting any argument and have only asked you to explain your accusations. \r \nNope your copy paste argument was already refuted try again.\r \nNo it wasnt. All youve done is argue any economist that criticizes HDI are wrong. \r \nNope you put words in my mouth saying all economist think that. It again makes you look dumb. Try again.\r \nbut you are the one that tried to claim all economist agree that HDI is a more suitable measure. That wwas a lie. \r \nBy high level criticism in studies. \r \nwhat studies would those be? \r \nBy its ability to take into account things besides sales of goods.\r \nas pointed out are extremely subjective and up for vague interpretation.\r \nNo, your inability to have recall one or two posts before. Its like having a conversation with a toddler.\r \nIm truly sorry you feel that way. \r \nYou referenced it and then completely forgot the arguments. Like a goldfish.\r \nHow have I forgotten the argument? \r \nBecause you're unable to recall one or two posts away. Hence like talking to a toddler.\r \nWhat is it Ive failed to recall? What is up with all this made up accusations?\r \nNo, I asked you to read the other flaws of gdp instead of focusing on the one that makes the least sense to argue about. Damn you're dumb.\r \nand I did and asked you whats the point here of replacing GDP as a measure for one such as HDI thats as much or more flawed?\r \nNope, you didn't read the other flaws. Go back and read. Lol you say you did and then as proof show you did not. Hahahaha.\r \nBut I did and pointed out above the completer irrational of your argument. \r \nShow me. I showed you the data. It's not subjective. Try again your argument as fallen apart.\r \nI already provided multiple economist pointing the flawed methodology of the HDI Formula.\r \nReread previous posts.\r \nI did now can you explain your accusation now that Ive asked multiple times or will you continue to deflect.\r \nLife span, literacy rate, years of education, PPI. Show me which are vague. Man you're scared huh. Your argument completely fell apart.\r \nI didnt claim those measures were vague. Pay attention.\r \nIt's flawed but gives a better picture than sales of goods.\r \nIt also highly distorts the actual picture by relying on overy subjective data that requires a high amount of interpretations. \r \nNo you haven't. Why are they subjective?\r \nIve already provided multiple economist pointing that out. \r \nBy lifespan. By education. By literacy rate.Again, already pointed out there are a multitude of factors that lead to those resutls. but youve yet to explain how you determine what result is a success or failure.\r \nYou measure the health of your society. That's the way to do it. Alabama is a failure in that regard.\r \nHow is it failing. Youve yet to explain your determination as to what constitutes fail/succeed.\r \nDoesn't matter if the wealth is captured by shareholders. \r \nbut I already explained how a corporations benefits a community a multitude of ways\r \nSomeone Making 8 dollars an hour while at a store with a revenue of 10 million when the profit is extracted for shareholder value. \r \nWhat does this even mean? I see your tyring to push some anti-capitalisms narrative but you cant even adequately elaborate as to what youre talking about.\r \nShareholders become so becuase they put forth equity into the company.. With out that equity investment there wouldnt be a store for that someone to even earn a hourly wage to begin with. How do you incentivize shareholders to take a chance and giver their money in to a company if you dont provide then a ROI? This is basic economics you appear to not grasp. \r \nThe gdp shows the store revenue while the only local income is 8 dollar/hr employee. My criticism remains valid. Try again. You're just showing you don't understand the measurements at all.\r \nI fully understand the measurement. GDP is important because it gives information about the size of the economy and how an economy is performing. The growth rate of real GDP is often used as an indicator of the general health of the economy. In broad terms, an increase in real GDP is interpreted as a sign that the economy is doing well. When real GDP is growing strongly, employment is likely to be increasing as companies hire more workers for their factories and people have more money in their pockets. When GDP is shrinking, as it did in many countries during the recent global economic crisis, employment often declines.",
"As someone who has lived in some of the rural parts it’s highlighted in Texas, I can tell you that article is not wholly accurate and even acknowledges things I mentioned in my comment regarding convenience and ignorance on healthy eating habits. 10 miles is not too far to drive to a grocery store if you live in a rural area, nor is 1 mile in a major city. It may be inconvenient compared to having a grocery store within a couple miles or a fast food chain even closer, but that’s the nature of living in rural areas. \n\nThe whole article/study is framed around it being “inconvenient” to prioritize healthy eating habits, and as a result it paints an untrue picture for people who don’t know any better. The demographic it describes is traveling close to or just as far to go to a McDonald’s or a Dairy Queen as it would a grocery store, but they don’t want to buy fruit and vegetables they have to cook and instead want Big Macs and chicken fingers. It has more to do with laziness than this article wants to say, and it’s unpopular to hold people accountable for their actions and instead wants to pander to its readers who don’t know any better and want to pity these poor folks by pretending they simply can’t get healthy food. It’s simply not the case for the majority.\n\nI agree though that any percentage is too much and I’m sure it is true for some people in the country. However, it’s absolutely not true for the significant portion it’s describing.",
">See all your statements are simple asking for the spoon. \n\nIm simply asking you to explain your accusations that I wrong and uneducated. Why cant you do that?\n\n>Guess you dont believe in personal responsibility at all.\n\nas in your responsibility to explain your accusations?",
"You are absolutely correct. That article is silly with its framework, and paints a picture of laziness rather than a true lack of accessibility.",
"Can't read this please use quotes correctly because you made this unreadable mess \n\nJust to reiterate. \n\nHDI is a better measure. You haven't shown its subjective, I've shown you multiple ways it's not subjective. You've lost this argument. \n\nPlease show me high level economic paper that says gdp per capita is the best way to measure the well being of society. \nEconomist that work for the UN decided that HDI is better for these purposes and I agree with them. You've lost this argument. \n\nGdp per capita doesn't take into account any things other than sold goods and services. If people are dying by age 30 due to poor conditions but a big corporation is working there then gdp per capita is good and by your metric is good. Meanwhile HDI would be poor and more clearly represent the situation in said area. \n\nSince the UN metric it shows Alabama as a failure in having a first world level society. Considering its subject to the same laws and regulations federally as other states than its totally a failure of local governing.",
">>See all your statements are simple asking for the spoon. \n>\n>Im simply asking you to explain your accusations that I wrong and uneducated. Why cant you do that?\n\nI have no responsibility to educate you. I simple informing you your opinions are discarded because they are wrong. \n\n>\n>>Guess you dont believe in personal responsibility at all.\n>\n>as in your responsibility to explain your accusations?\n\nAs said before your education is a personal responsibility. Your failure to do so is your failure as a person not mine.",
"I don't understand. Are you saying that these places are food deserts even though there are usually grocery stores a few blocks away? At that point I'm not sure what a food desert is even supposed to mean.\n\nEdit: also foodstamps are indexed by the cost of groceries for your area. You get more if you live in a place with expensive groceries.",
"38 of those 39 million are obese. They are not food insecure, they just can't afford food delivery every day and have to cook for themselves. The horror",
"Food deserts are about access to fresh food. If you live in a neighborhood that has no fresh produce, travelling to a more affluent neighborhood to do your grocery shopping doesn't solve *your* neighborhood's problem.\n\nTraveling to other areas in search of clothing, or luxury goods, or fine dining, or entertainment may make sense. But the prevailing thinking behind those who complain about food deserts is that *fresh food* should remain accessible to all neighborhoods.",
"Have you ever been to Alabama?\n\nHave you ever traveled to the third world, and actually left your comfortable resort?\n\nWhat a pile of shit",
"**I’m** looking at?… I’m literally looking at your links. That screenshot was from a link YOU posted, and now you’re picking it apart! I’m loving this. \n\nDo you often argue against yourself?! Hit yourself much?!\n\nYour turn again.",
"Ohh, you're one of those. Let.me rephrase it for you:\n\nDo the people who live in the home above your basement (you may know them as your mom amd stepdad) not use rebates, tax credits, or tax exempt purchases?",
"A. Lived there for 16 years\n\nB. Yes\n\nC. Did you step in some and were awed by it?",
"So there are frequent grocers, but the ones in poor neighborhoods don't sell fresh food? I find it hard to believe this is anything more than market preference. It's no more expensive to ship vegetables to Harlem than it is to the upper East Side-- the two are right next to each other. If people in these places wanted to buy vegetables at a price greater than the cost of getting them there, someone would already be selling them. \n\nI'd also add that fresh vegetables are enormously overrated. Frozen vegetables are better in almost every dimension; I don't know the last time I ate a fresh vegetable.",
"Yeah, poor Americans live in way bigger homes, drive bigger and more expensive cars (well, they actually drive cars), have much easier access to nature, and eat out way more",
"Eat less. Buy a $2 bottle of multivitamins. Boom, done.\n\n No, you won't be happy, but you will be healthy as fuck.\n\nI fucking dare you to go up to real starving people in places like India or Sub Saharan Africa and repeat those lines. I won't mourn your death",
"The fact that people are willing to believe such blatant nonsense is troubling\n\nLook around. People in the US, especially poor ones, are too fat to stand up",
">Can't read this please use quotes correctly because you made this unreadable mess\n\nI dealth with the same issues with your inability to properly quote the comment you were referring to. You can figure it out just the same.\n\n>HDI is a better measure. You haven't shown its subjective, \n\nI did show its subjectivity.\n\n>I've shown you multiple ways it's not subjective. You've lost this argument.\n\nthere is no argument to be lost. I provided economist pointing out the criticisms and flaw to the methodology of HDI\n\n>Please show me high level economic paper that says gdp per capita is the best way to measure the well being of society. \n\nI never claimed it was the best. Youre the one here arguing HDI is better than GDP.\n\n>Economist that work for the UN decided that HDI is better for these purposes and I agree with them. You've lost this argument.\n\nand I dont agree with them or their method they use subjective means to arrive at broad interpretation of the results. Theres no argument to be lost in that regard. \n\n> If people are dying by age 30 due to poor conditions but a big corporation is working there then gdp per capita is good and by your metric is good. \n\nTheoretically, GDP can be viewed in three different ways:\r \n\r \n● The production approach sums the “value-added” at each stage of production, where value-added is defined as total sales less the value of intermediate inputs into the production process. For example, flour would be an intermediate input and bread the final product; or an architect’s services would be an intermediate input and the building the final product.\r \n\r \n● The expenditure approach adds up the value of purchases made by final users—for example, the consumption of food, televisions, and medical services by households; the investments in machinery by companies; and the purchases of goods and services by the government and foreigners.\r \n\r \n● The income approach sums the incomes generated by production—for example, the compensation employees receive and the operating surplus of companies (roughly sales less costs).\n\nGDP is important because it gives information about the size of the economy and how an economy is performing. The growth rate of real GDP is often used as an indicator of the general health of the economy. \n\n>Since the UN metric it shows Alabama as a failure in having a first world level society.\n\nbut it doesnt show that. Thats your own determination to the UNs interpretation of the data.\n\n> Considering its subject to the same laws and regulations federally as other states than its totally a failure of local governing\n\nWhat laws and regulations are your referring to here that are not being adhered to and therefor the fault of local government?",
"Now you are just making a fool of yourself. You can't insult your way out of not even having a basic understanding of how Amazon create a kind of arbitrage profit through the planned interaction of the multinational group of companies\nin the international sate system. \n\nThis has nothing to do with personal tax rebate allowances.\n\nIf you want to actually understand the problem our Democratic systems face. Every year,\nmultinational corporations shift over US$ 1.38 trillion\nin profits to tax havens. I would recommend this study\n\nhttps://researchcentres.city.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/607698/The-Amazon-Method-2021.pdf",
"> Frozen vegetables are better in almost every dimension;\n\nIn this instance, the term “fresh” isn’t used as opposed to frozen. It’s used as opposed to “processed.”",
">I have no responsibility to educate you. \n\nI havent asked you to. Ive asked for you to explain your accusations that Im wrong. Why cant you do that?\n\n>I simple informing you your opinions are discarded because they are wrong.\n\nHow are they wrong? \n\n>As said before your education is a personal responsibility. \n\nHow am I uneducated? Explain this accusation. \n\n>Your failure to do so is your failure as a person not mine.\n\nFailure to do what? Explain yourself.",
"Oh, you're a brit. Replace basement with attic, and upstairs with downstairs.",
"Here is the opening statement to the conclusion to the study for anyone (other than Einstein above) who may be interested in the findings:\n\n>A small minority of businesses in the world are\nmultinational enterprises (MNEs). These organizations\nhave become key vehicles for innovation, wealth\ncreation, but also wealth concentration in the modern\nworld. Many countries have introduced systems of\ncorporate taxation as instruments for the redistribution of power and wealth, ensuring that businesses\ncontribute to the cost of maintaining the state-ofthe-art infrastructure provided by the societies from\nwhich they benefit. MNEs employ some of the\nsharpest legal and accounting brains to exploit the\nsystem of rules, regulations and taxation created by\nstates, especially gaps and loopholes arising between\ndifferent jurisdictions, to avoid paying taxes. Crosssubsidies is the direct impact of international corporate tax mitigation strategies; the less MNEs pay in\ntaxation, the more someone else has to pay, typically\nsections in society that are unable to employ those\nprofessional services.\nIn this report we look at the way Amazon has organized its domestic and international business to\nminimize taxation worldwide. This study complements\nexisting studies, which rely on information contained\nin Amazon Form 10-K annual filings in the United\nStates and company accounts of various European\nand UK subsidiaries. We employ, in addition, a new\ntechnique, which we call “equity mapping” (EM),\nto cross-examine Amazon’s international activities\nover the last decade against subsidiary level records\nto study Amazon’s integrated tax planning strategies.\nThe equity mapping technique was developed out\nof an ongoing CORPLINK study funded by the\nEuropean Research Council Advanced Grant. As a\nresult, this report highlights select parts of Amazon’s\nfinancial reporting that have generally been ignored\nby other analysts.\n\nhttps://researchcentres.city.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/607698/The-Amazon-Method-2021.pdf\n\n>About the Authors:\nRichard Phillips CEO and chief Investigator, Iconomist Ltd and Honorary Senior Research Fellow,\nCITYPERC, City, University of London\nJenaline Pyle PhD Candidate, Department of International Politics, City, University of London\nRonen Palan Professor of International Political Economy, City, University of London and holder\nof an ERC Advanced Grant",
"I assumed you meant fresh as in fresh because fresh produce is expensive to transport and sell. If fresh just means not processed, then I'm even more convinced that people just don't want to buy it. There's nothing stopping the hundreds of bodegas in new York from selling beans, rice, frozen vegetables and the like. If they don't do it, it must be because nobody wants to buy them.",
"'Brits' kind of created -not only the business language you are using as a second language to improve your financial lot in life, but also the financial systems we are discussing. \n\nI will leave you with the conclusion to the PhD study. I doubt you are humble enough to learn anything, but I always try to help a thirsty horse, even when they clearly are too pigheaded and stubborn drink.\n\n>A small minority of businesses in the world are multinational enterprises (MNEs). These organizations have become key vehicles for innovation, wealth creation, but also wealth concentration in the modern world. Many countries have introduced systems of corporate taxation as instruments for the redistribution of power and wealth, ensuring that businesses contribute to the cost of maintaining the state-ofthe-art infrastructure provided by the societies from which they benefit. MNEs employ some of the sharpest legal and accounting brains to exploit the system of rules, regulations and taxation created by states, especially gaps and loopholes arising between different jurisdictions, to avoid paying taxes. Crosssubsidies is the direct impact of international corporate tax mitigation strategies; the less MNEs pay in taxation, the more someone else has to pay, typically sections in society that are unable to employ those professional services. In this report we look at the way Amazon has organized its domestic and international business to minimize taxation worldwide. This study complements existing studies, which rely on information contained in Amazon Form 10-K annual filings in the United States and company accounts of various European and UK subsidiaries. We employ, in addition, a new technique, which we call “equity mapping” (EM), to cross-examine Amazon’s international activities over the last decade against subsidiary level records to study Amazon’s integrated tax planning strategies. The equity mapping technique was developed out of an ongoing CORPLINK study funded by the European Research Council Advanced Grant. As a result, this report highlights select parts of Amazon’s financial reporting that have generally been ignored by other analysts.",
"It's extremist in nationwide terms, not just this site. Word of friendly advice: If you learned to drink incorrectly and someone is correcting you, try not to double down with your incorrect instructions, you just look more foolish.",
"I will bet $20 on PayPal right now that you can't name three \"extremist\" policies that have been applied at the nationwide level off the top of your dome. \n\nYou don't even know how to define the word. Actually knowing what you're even supposed to be upset about? I'll take that bet all day.",
">>Can't read this please use quotes correctly because you made this unreadable mess\n>\n>I dealth with the same issues with your inability to properly quote the comment you were referring to. You can figure it out just the same.\n\nNope. You removed all quotes. \n\n>\n>>HDI is a better measure. You haven't shown its subjective, \n>\n>I did show its subjectivity.\n\nYou didn't. I've shown you it's not. \n\n>\n>>I've shown you multiple ways it's not subjective. You've lost this argument.\n>\n>there is no argument to be lost. I provided economist pointing out the criticisms and flaw to the methodology of HDI\n\nCorrect. 3 arguments. 2 of which weren't pertinent. 1 of which has been corrected more for with better methodology. \n\n>\n>>Please show me high level economic paper that says gdp per capita is the best way to measure the well being of society. \n>\n>I never claimed it was the best. Youre the one here arguing HDI is better than GDP.\n\nCorrect and UN agrees. \n\n>\n>>Economist that work for the UN decided that HDI is better for these purposes and I agree with them. You've lost this argument.\n>\n>and I dont agree with them or their method they use subjective means to arrive at broad interpretation of the results. Theres no argument to be lost in that regard. \n\nNot subjective. \n\n>\n>> If people are dying by age 30 due to poor conditions but a big corporation is working there then gdp per capita is good and by your metric is good. \n>\n>Theoretically, GDP can be viewed in three different ways:\r \n>\r \n>● The production approach sums the “value-added” at each stage of production, where value-added is defined as total sales less the value of intermediate inputs into the production process. For example, flour would be an intermediate input and bread the final product; or an architect’s services would be an intermediate input and the building the final product.\r \n>\r \n>● The expenditure approach adds up the value of purchases made by final users—for example, the consumption of food, televisions, and medical services by households; the investments in machinery by companies; and the purchases of goods and services by the government and foreigners.\r \n>\r \n>● The income approach sums the incomes generated by production—for example, the compensation employees receive and the operating surplus of companies (roughly sales less costs).\n>\n>GDP is important because it gives information about the size of the economy and how an economy is performing. The growth rate of real GDP is often used as an indicator of the general health of the economy. \n\nHealth of an economy. Not health of a society. So again hdi is better metric measuring the health of the society. If I wanna know the economy and not care about the inhabitants than I'll look at gdp per cap. \n\n>\n>>Since the UN metric it shows Alabama as a failure in having a first world level society.\n>\n>but it doesnt show that. Thats your own determination to the UNs interpretation of the data.\n\nFailure of being a 1st world country standards yes. Should we comparing Alabama to California or to Somalia? Since its the same country ill compare them to California. \n\n>\n>> Considering its subject to the same laws and regulations federally as other states than its totally a failure of local governing\n>\n>What laws and regulations are your referring to here that are not being adhered to and therefor the fault of local government?\n\nI said they are under the same federal jurisdiction so it's only state/ local governing that is having this effect. \n\n Same way these places have higher maternal mortality. Cali has 4 deaths per 100k. Alabama has 36.4. Which is especially bad as alabama skews more teen pregnant and as teen pregnancy which have better than average outcomes.",
"And yet here *you are* posting bullshit. And you still don't see the problem. You are part of it.",
"So “food insecurity” is a lie. It’s just that they don’t eat super nutritious food. Thanks for making my point.",
"Any statistics on that? Oh, just numbers you made up in your head to feel good about your statistics? Cool.",
"lol maybe. A lot of the public talk about helping poor people seems completely off base to me, and the cynical part of me wonders whether it's more about making reasonably well off people feel good about themselves for having the correct opinions. \n\nFood insecurity is one example. If you're in a place where getting food is a challenge, your main problem likely has nothing to do with food. I started living on the streets when I was 17, and I remember chatting with this huge black guy outside a soup kitchen who told me, \"if you're going hungry, you're doing it wrong.\" It was kind of inspiring to hear really; he was probably much worse off than I was, but he had figured out how to sustain himself despite whatever else what going wrong.",
"Maybe there is a larger issue when the most wealthy country in the EU and the most wealthy country in the world, much less the rest of the top 20 on that list have people (edit, a LOT of people in their countries) who are food insecure. I feel like you can get there if you really think about it.",
">\tNope. You removed all quotes.\n\nI understand. It can be rough \n\n>\tYou didn't. I've shown you it's not.\n\nI did and you haven’t \n\n>\tCorrect. 3 arguments. 2 of which weren't pertinent. \n\nWhich were those?\n\n>1 of which has been corrected more for with better methodology.\n\nAnd as pointed out the methodology is still flawed and relies on overly vague information to make subjective assumptions.\n\n>\tCorrect and UN agrees.\n\nSo, the organization that created and funded the use of the methodology agrees with the use if that methodology?\n\nGroundbreaking stuff there.\n\n>\tNot subjective.\n\nIt most certainly is as pointed out \n\n>\tHealth of an economy. Not health of a society. So again hdi is better metric measuring the health of the society. \n\nThey are both flawed. HDI relies on a lot of subjectivity and assumptions to arrive ar it’s determination.\n\n>If I wanna know the economy and not care about the inhabitants than I'll look at gdp per cap.\n\nGDP is one of the best indicators to as to how well a society is.\n\n>\tFailure of being a 1st world country standards yes. \n\nHow so? What standards is it that determines that. So far its just you claiming such. \n\n>Should we comparing Alabama to California or to Somalia? Since its the same country ill compare them to California.\n\nYou can compare however you want. The question is the validity of your claim of failure.\n\n>\tI said they are under the same federal jurisdiction so it's only state/ local governing that is having this effect.\n\nSo what federal law is it you’re claiming the state/local government failed to adhere to?\n\n>\tSame way these places have higher maternal mortality. Cali has 4 deaths per 100k. Alabama has 36.4. \n\nHow much of a difference and What is it you’re contributing to that difference?\n\n>Which is especially bad as alabama skews more teen pregnant \n\nWhat does this sentence mean?\n\n>and as teen pregnancy which have better than average outcomes.\n\nBetter than average outcomes in what regard?",
"\n>\n>I havent asked you to. Ive asked for you to explain your accusations that Im wrong. Why cant you do that?\n\nBecause it's not my responsibility to educate simpleton. \n>\n>>I simple informing you your opinions are discarded because they are wrong.\n>\n>How are they wrong? \n\nIt's not my responsibility to educate you. \n>\n>>As said before your education is a personal responsibility. \n>\n>How am I uneducated? Explain this accusation. \n\nBecause your opinions are uninformed. \n\n>\n>>Your failure to do so is your failure as a person not mine.\n>\n>Failure to do what? Explain yourself.\n\nYour opinions are wrong.",
">\tBecause it's not my responsibility to educate simpleton.\n\nBut isn’t it your responsibility to explain your vague accusations that im wrong and uneducated?\n\n>\tIt's not my responsibility to educate you.\n\nBut you made the claim. Why can’t you explain what you mean \n\n>\tBecause your opinions are uninformed.\n\nWhat opinions of mine are uninformed?\n\n>\tyour opinions are wrong.\n\nWhat opinion is that and why",
">>\tNope. You removed all quotes.\n>\n>I understand. It can be rough \n>\n>>\tYou didn't. I've shown you it's not.\n>\n>I did and you haven’t \n\nSee this doesn't work. You haven't once explained them. I shown the points which they are not subjective. It's ok you're just wrong at this point. \n>\n>>\tCorrect. 3 arguments. 2 of which weren't pertinent. \n>\n>Which were those?\n\nRefer back to your copy paste arguement and my response. \n\n>\n>>1 of which has been corrected more for with better methodology.\n>\n>And as pointed out the methodology is still flawed and relies on overly vague information to make subjective assumptions.\n\nWhich vague assumptions? \n\n>\n>>\tCorrect and UN agrees.\n>\n>So, the organization that created and funded the use of the methodology agrees with the use if that methodology?\n>\n>Groundbreaking stuff there.\n\nPhD in economics design something and it works. Wow imagine that. \n\n>\n>>\tNot subjective.\n>\n>It most certainly is as pointed out \n\nIt isn't. Please point out how as you haven't yet. \n\n>\n>>\tHealth of an economy. Not health of a society. So again hdi is better metric measuring the health of the society. \n>\n>They are both flawed. HDI relies on a lot of subjectivity and assumptions to arrive ar it’s determination.\n\nPpi, lifespan, literacy rates, years of education. Point to which of these is subjective and explain. \n>\n>>If I wanna know the economy and not care about the inhabitants than I'll look at gdp per cap.\n>\n>GDP is one of the best indicators to as to how well a society is.\n\nWhy? \n\n>\n>>\tFailure of being a 1st world country standards yes. \n>\n>How so? What standards is it that determines that. So far its just you claiming such. \n\nPpi, lifespan, literacy rates, years of education. Or should we just assume a non literate society that dies at 60 due to poor health is the same as a college educated society that lives to 80. \n\n>\n>>Should we comparing Alabama to California or to Somalia? Since its the same country ill compare them to California.\n>\n>You can compare however you want. The question is the validity of your claim of failure.\n\nThe claim is that they don't live up to first world metrics in many areas. Your gdp doesn't show the 6 years they aren't living due to lack of healthcare. Explain that. \n\n>\n>>\tI said they are under the same federal jurisdiction so it's only state/ local governing that is having this effect.\n>\n>So what federal law is it you’re claiming the state/local government failed to adhere to?\n>\n>>\tSame way these places have higher maternal mortality. Cali has 4 deaths per 100k. Alabama has 36.4. \n>\n>How much of a difference and What is it you’re contributing to that difference?\n\n9x difference. 900% difference. Healthcare policy of each state is making that difference. \n\n>\n>>Which is especially bad as alabama skews more teen pregnant \n>\n>What does this sentence mean?\n\nTeenage pregnancy is higher in Alabama. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/teen-births/teenbirths.htm \n\n>\n>>and as teen pregnancy which have better than average outcomes.\n>\n>Better than average outcomes in what regard?\n\nThan average pregnancy. Younger people are generally healthier and less likely to die from pregnancy or pregnancy complications.",
">>\tBecause it's not my responsibility to educate simpleton.\n>\n>But isn’t it your responsibility to explain your vague accusations that im wrong and uneducated?\n\nIt's not. I've already pointed out where youre wrong. If you cant infer than its your failure in education. \n>\n>>\tIt's not my responsibility to educate you.\n>\n>But you made the claim. Why can’t you explain what you mean \n\nI did and pointed it out. \n>\n>>\tBecause your opinions are uninformed.\n>\n>What opinions of mine are uninformed?\n\nThe ones you made. \n\n>\n>>\tyour opinions are wrong.\n>\n>What opinion is that and why\n\nThe ones I've pointed out.",
"I'm sympathetic to your point, and it fits what I've seen of the world. To make a slight critique, I think there may be something to the idea that food insecurity can increase risk of obesity. If you're properly homeless and always looking for the next meal, it might be tempting to overeat when possible to out of fear. If the food you're overeating is very calorie dense, you can end up fat despite occasionally failing to find food. It's ironic that the food you do find can be a larger health risk than the food you don't find.\n\nIt's a different and much better problem than starvation level hunger, but it's probably not a great way to live. That said, the only people I've met who are actually in this position are homeless people who haven't managed to get food stamps. It can be tough to get food stamps if you're on the street because they need to be tied to an address, so a lot of guys work out a deal with a church or shelter that let's them use their address. If you're too proud, or high, or mentally ill to do this you have spend your days walking across town between soup kitchens to get your meals in. Sometimes hours change, or you get the date/location wrong and there's no food when you arrive. It's a bad feeling. \n\nI remember when I got food stamps it lifted a huge weight off my shoulders, because it meant that no matter what else happened I could always walk into a store and get enough food. The security was so important to me that I bought cheaper food than I really needed to and horded the extra points just in case something unexpected happened and I needed to spend more than usual.\n\nI'm obviously biased, but I think the food stamps program is dollar-for-dollar one of the best federal entitlement programs. It's a tiny fraction of the budget and does a huge amount of good imo.",
"Would a computer tell you what gross and net means? Maybe you can check to see what a Euro is!\n\nYour turn again.",
"I've been on food stamps, which obviously makes me biased, but I think it's perhaps the best entitlement program the US has at the moment. It's very a cheap from a budgetary perspective, and it creates a huge blanket of security for the people who need it. There's ton's of problems that come along with being homeless, but once you get food stamps there's an entire class of issues that you can just stop worrying about. No matter what else happens, you can always stop in a corner store, get a bit to eat, sit down and feel decent for a bit. Nothing bad ever happens there, and you get to chat with the owner and feel unthreatened for a while. \n\n\nI remember when I was homeless on thanksgiving, and I celebrated by buying a Jamaican soda from some bodega in Hartford. I had almost no regular money at the time, and couldn't have justified the purchase if I didn't know my foodstamps would cover it. It was a small thing, but I really felt taken care of at that moment. I I wish I could thank whoever paid for that soda.",
"He didn't say it wasn't a good way to help poor people, he said it's not a good way to *reduce poverty*\n\nAnd then he said \"it's better than nothing\"",
"Well the game has dubs for like a dozen languages. Would be pretty tough to find actors who can speak them all.",
"I agree with your sentiment that poor people's diets are very unhealthy, but I genuinely don't think you know how calories work.\n\nYour weight is determined by your average daily calorie intake. It doesn't matter at all how nutritious your calories are, all that matters is how much calories you take in. So if you eat 4000 calories per day (and your not 7 feet tall) you're going to be fat. Likewise, if you eat 2000 calories per day (and your not 5'0 tall) you're going to be skinny. The healthiness of the food you're eating has literally no affect on that.\n\nIf you eat a whole celery stock, it might fill your stomach and make you feel full, but it's only like 100 calories. Meanwhile you eat a handful of French fries and it's 5x as many calories in a fraction of the volume. And that's where the problem lies. Cheap food like McDonald's is low volume but calorie packed. You eat it till you feel like you've eaten one meal, but it terms of calories you've eaten two. Then you get fat.\n\nSo yes, if you're reduced to eating cheap greasy **calorie packed** food like McDonald's, eating less of it and taking an assortment of supplements (although it would certainly cost more than 2 dollars, and simple multivitamins aren't going to cut it) you should be fine.\n\nVolume of food is irrelevant. Calorie intake is all that matters when it comes to simple energy sustenance",
"Yeah, I'd say 60% of my income goes towards food for my family. And we're pretty good about how we spend our money. Our household income is about $30,000. We live in a rural area so good paying jobs are hard to find unless I want to commute 4 hours a day. I don't qualify for food assistance because when my dad died he left me some property. And apparently unless I sell that I don't qualify for food assistance. I mean I guess we aren't starving. But when all of your income that isn't going to bills goes to food. It's hard to save up for anything. It took me until last month to pay off the medical bills I received for my wife giving birth. And I paid off my medical bills from when I had cancer from 5 years ago less than a year ago. Most of our tax returns go towards those kinds of debts. We're financially responsible, and waited 10 years into our relationship to have a child. It's just things keep costing more, and opportunities are few and far between. We're making it, but just barely. Always just keeping our heads above the water. In 2 years our car will be paid off, and we should be fully out of debt. But if some unexpected expense comes along it could put us back years.",
"don't even have to work hard here to really disprove any argument, you're getting upvoted either way hehehe",
"The fuck? If you're referring to my mistake of confusing Syria and Afghanistan, you're going with the \"gotcha\" instead of refuting my point. Seems to be a trend going on here...",
"No, I'm more focused on your comment about being over weight. I'm saying even if someone has food insecurity, they could be over weight because the only readily available food, due to cost, tends to be cheap, highly processed, high calorie foods.",
"You've doubled down on a lost argument and I don't have time for denialists as ignorant as you. Blocking you for your own benefit since you love to argue while covering your ears. Pay attention to the evidence and you might not look so foolish next time. Keep your $20 and buy some education, love.",
"3rd world country with a gucci belt!",
"So they are not food insecure. They just have food options you don’t like. Thanks for making my point again.",
"I made $16K last year…. 70% of my income goes towards rent. Which means I get less than $100 a month for food.",
"You should look at how other first world countries deal with these problems. There are better solutions that solve more problems. The US government is just way too much of a war zone to get anything done.",
"The american public have been raised by cruel elites to believe in elitism and a false idea of meritocracy; that you get more because you're \"better\" and anyone hungry or poor deserves their lesser lot... because thats all their worth. This seed is where far too many of the wests cruelty and selfishness is born as too many don't realize how much luck played in their privilege.",
"Food insecurity can also occur when there is an abundance of processed, pre-packaged, calorie-dense foods, because these foods do not contain adequate nutrition.",
"Lol America is not a warzone.",
"No... I said the government is, the politics is. If you haven't noticed that, you must be living under a rock. Nothing important gets done because the extreme partisan politics.",
"We literally just passed a trillion dollar infrastructure bill.",
"By some miracle, they got a transportation and utilities bill, but let's talk about the more relevant social safety net and climate change agenda.\n\n> The House plans to take the next step in passing the social spending plan. The chamber will try to approve the bill during the week of Nov. 15 once it returns from a weeklong recess. With no Republican support expected, Democrats can lose no more than three votes for the package.\n\nLiterally NO republican support. If that's not partisan politics, then I don't know what is.",
"So now we are changing the meaning. So the idea that people are starving in the US was a lie. Thanks for making my point again. You are the best hype man.",
"No you have a definition in your head that means complete lack of food which is equivalent to starvation. Food insecurity can encompass the lack of nutritional food. \n\nIf all you can buy are Doritos and that's all you eat, is that really going to be good for you? Can you really be sustained living off of Doritos for the rest of your life?",
"If you can buy Doritos you can buy other things. So what this ad and you don’t like is the fact that these people have made bad choices. Then why not make a commercial telling poor people to make better choices. Instead of making up an ambiguous term like “food insecurity.” Which of course has no intention of helping the poor. It’s strictly to push a narrative that Americans are starving. Lol",
"you are already vaccinated against them. you dont go outside.",
"Once again, you're dead set on food insecurity can only mean one thing, starvation.\n\nNow you're conflating poverty with bad choices like it's someone's bad choice to live in and never get out of poverty. Do you think people want to be impoverished?\n\nThese \"bad choices\" are sometimes the only choice. Eating nutritional food can be quite expensive. When you're on a very limited budget cheap foods like fast foods are more appealing but lack real nutritional value.",
"Not surprised you doubled down, but you are still Glenn Kessler-ing. Literally nobody has to follow your dumb made up dictionary of \"technically correct\" terms. This is not a research paper, it's a conversation. Words are allowed to have colloquial meanings and nobody was claiming that people in the US are \"below the level needed to maintain an organism's life\" (although your reference to people in need as \"organisms\" is a telling reflection of your neoliberal ideology). \n\nAll you are doing is blindly defending the US by making out its critics to be exagerrators when in fact they were simply using a more common term that everyone would understand instead of the neoliberal technocratic emotionless term that only people with a background in poverty studies would understand.",
"Just because you get your information online doesn't mean everyone does. The guy above for example gets his from mainstream newspapers, clearly. I got mine from several classes on this topic. By the way, I never claimed his stats are wrong, just mocked his \"smarter than thou, stop complaining\" tone.",
"&#x200B;\n\n>See this doesn't work. You haven't once explained them.\n\nI provided economist explanations \n\n>Refer back to your copy paste arguement and my response.\n\nI already did. see above\n\n>Which vague assumptions?\n\nagain, already pointed out.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>PhD in economics design something and it works. Wow imagine that.\n\nlulz! .So, the organization that created and funded the use of the methodology agrees with the use if that methodology?\n\nGroundbreaking stuff there.\n\n>It isn't. Please point out how as you haven't yet.\n\nAgain, already provided economist pointing that out. pay attention.\n\n>Ppi, lifespan, literacy rates, years of education. Point to which of these is subjective and explain.\n\nAgain, we already went over this. Pay attention to the comments your responding to. \n\n>Why?\n\nalready provided detailed explanations. Pay attention to what you are responding to.\n\n>Ppi, lifespan, literacy rates, years of education. \n\nSo again, what is the stadard levels these should be at and how do you determine what rates are considered failures?\n\n>Or should we just assume a non literate society that dies at 60 due to poor health is the same as a college educated society that lives to 80.\n\nSee above.\n\n>The claim is that they don't live up to first world metrics in many areas.\n\nSo what are the metrics they should meet? \n\n> Your gdp doesn't show the 6 years they aren't living due to lack of healthcare. Explain that.\n\nWho in the US doenst have healthcare? Anyone at a low enough income level receives Medicaid and Medicare. \n\n>9x difference. 900% difference. \n\nCalfornia maternity deaths 11.7 per 100k, alabama 36.4 per 100k. what are you talking about here?\n\n> Healthcare policy of each state is making that difference.\n\nso, what policy would that be? \n\n>Than average pregnancy. Younger people are generally healthier and less likely to die from pregnancy or pregnancy complications.\n\nThis is correct. California has the 4th youngest population of all the states while Alabama has one of the oldest.",
">It's not. I've already pointed out where youre wrong. \n\nYou still havent pointed out what Im wrong about\n\n>If you cant infer than its your failure in education.\n\nSo, did you point it out or am I suppose to infer what you mean?\n\n>I did and pointed it out.\n\nincorrect\n\n>The ones you made.\n\nWhich ones were those and how are they uninformed?\n\n>The ones I've pointed out.\n\nBut you havent pointed out any.",
"I guess all the downvotes didn't make you realize you are a gaping fucking asshole and a complete fucking moron to not only me but to everyone else. I provided facts. When dealing with stats, which is what I am replying to, you don't deal is colloquial meanings you dumb fuck. Now go back to your worthless life you sack of shit.\n\nThis is all you will get from me because you are garbage human being projecting your biased shit onto others. You are the shithead with the bias. I am the one with the facts. You just didn't like the facts because it goes against your bias. Now fuck off and die you sad piece of shit.",
"You see in order to actually make an argument you need to provide said information. You have not because you are a complete fucking moron. For the record, I am smarter than you. Yet that isn't much of an accomplishment. I took a shit this morning smarter than you.",
"Wow you're really just an idiot at this point having explained nothing but I'll continue to humor the simpleton. \n\n>&#x200B;\n>\n>>See this doesn't work. You haven't once explained them.\n>\n>I provided economist explanations \n\nLink please. Your copy paste didn't explain it. \n>\n>>Refer back to your copy paste arguement and my response.\n>\n>I already did. see above\n>\n>>Which vague assumptions?\n>\n>again, already pointed out.\n\nYou did not. \n>\n>&#x200B;\n>\n>>PhD in economics design something and it works. Wow imagine that.\n>\n>lulz! .So, the organization that created and funded the use of the methodology agrees with the use if that methodology?\n>\n>Groundbreaking stuff there.\n\nPhD provide amazing metric for analysis and after feedback make it even better. Groundbreaking stuff yep. \n>\n>>It isn't. Please point out how as you haven't yet.\n>\n>Again, already provided economist pointing that out. pay attention.\n>\n\nYou didn't You copy pasted one thing that didn't explain anything. \n>>Ppi, lifespan, literacy rates, years of education. Point to which of these is subjective and explain.\n>\n>Again, we already went over this. Pay attention to the comments your responding to. \n\nYou didn't. \n\n>\n>>Why?\n>\n>already provided detailed explanations. Pay attention to what you are responding to.\n\nYou haven't. \n>\n>>Ppi, lifespan, literacy rates, years of education. \n>\n>So again, what is the stadard levels these should be at and how do you determine what rates are considered failures?\n\nYou compare them to other countries. Should we compare them to California or the Sudan. You decide ?\n>\n>>Or should we just assume a non literate society that dies at 60 due to poor health is the same as a college educated society that lives to 80.\n>\n>See above.\n>\n>>The claim is that they don't live up to first world metrics in many areas.\n>\n>So what are the metrics they should meet? \n\nCompare them to 1st and 3rd world countri as s. \n>\n>> Your gdp doesn't show the 6 years they aren't living due to lack of healthcare. Explain that.\n>\n>Who in the US doenst have healthcare? Anyone at a low enough income level receives Medicaid and Medicare. \n\nNot true. See the reasons for medicaid expansion. Guess what state didn't expand it. Are you just this stupid or pretending?\n\n>\n>>9x difference. 900% difference. \n>\n>Calfornia maternity deaths 11.7 per 100k, alabama 36.4 per 100k. what are you talking about here?\n\nhttps://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/maternal-mortality-rate-by-state\n\nWrong. Just assuming you're stupid at this point. 900% difference. Alabama is a failure \n\n>\n>> Healthcare policy of each state is making that difference.\n>\n>so, what policy would that be? \n\nSee all healthcare policies that are different. \n>\n>>Than average pregnancy. Younger people are generally healthier and less likely to die from pregnancy or pregnancy complications.\n>\n>This is correct. California has the 4th youngest population of all the states while Alabama has one of the oldest.\n\nThen why is Alabama having more teen pregnancy than California. By your metric Alabama should have less. We will just Consider it another failure of a dumb hillbilly state.",
">>It's not. I've already pointed out where youre wrong. \n>\n>You still havent pointed out what Im wrong about\n\nI pointed to the post. \n>\n>>If you cant infer than its your failure in education.\n>\n>So, did you point it out or am I suppose to infer what you mean?\n\nInfer your problems after the area of failure. \n>\n>>I did and pointed it out.\n>\n>incorrect\n\nTry again simpleton. \n>\n>>The ones you made\n>Which ones were those and how are they uninformed?\n\nThe ones you made. All. \n>\n>>The ones I've pointed out.\n>\n>But you havent pointed out any.\n\nI did.",
"So you don't dispute his facts, you just don't like that it disrupted a demonstrably false narrative? That's kinda weak.",
">Wow you're really just an idiot at this point having explained nothing but I'll continue to humor the simpleton.\n\nDont get upset cause someone dares to point out your BS\n\n>Link please. Your copy paste didn't explain it.\n\nIt did explain it. \n\n>You did not.\n\nI did as you said I did above.\n\n>PhD provide amazing metric for analysis and after feedback make it even better. Groundbreaking stuff yep.\n\nlulz! So, the organization that created and funded the use of the methodology agrees with the use if that methodology?\n\nGroundbreaking stuff there.\n\n>You didn't You copy pasted one thing that didn't explain anything.\n\nBut it did exlpain the problems with the HDI formula.\n\n>You compare them to other countries. Should we compare them to California or the Sudan. You decide ?\n\nSo, again.. how do you determine a metric is a failure or success?\n\n>Compare them to 1st and 3rd world countri as \n\nWhy would we refer to countries based on their allegiance with the US and USSR during the cold war? What in hell do you think youre even talking about here.\n\n>Not true.\n\nWhats not true? Do you not know what these two programs even are?\n\n> See the reasons for medicaid expansion. \n\nwhats the reason for expansion? Use your words.\n\n>Guess what state didn't expand it. Are you just this stupid or pretending?\n\nexpansions that weren't funded by the federal government and would be debt obligations on the states. You really have no clue what youre talking about do you. \n\n>Wrong. Just assuming you're stupid at this point. 900% difference.\n\nI just provided the rates per 100k per each state .\n\n> Alabama is a failure\n\nHow do you determine what result is failure or success?\n\n>See all healthcare policies that are different.\n\nSo, you clainmed its due to local and state polocies but cant list a single one that is responsible for these results? Do you often talk out of your and run when called on it?\n\n>Then why is Alabama having more teen pregnancy than California. \n\nmultitude or reasons. culturally, economically, access to contraceptives to name a few. \n\n>By your metric Alabama should have less. \n\nIm not sure how many is considered an adequate number. Do we go off the natioanl average or some other metric?\n\n>We will just Consider it another failure of a dumb hillbilly state.\n\nbut what federal laws is it youre claiming the state/local arent adhering to?",
">I pointed to the post.\n\nWhat about it was wrong?\n\n>Infer your problems after the area of failure.\n\nbut youre the one who has the problem with what I said. \n\n>Try again simpleton.\n\nSo, what was I wrong about?\n\n>The ones you made. All.\n\nhow were they uninformed?\n\n>I did.\n\nincorrect.",
"The fact that you justify your opinions from the groupthink of reddit's neoliberal userbase rather than actually being able to address my critique is the icing on the cake 😂. \n\nNobody was dealing with stats until you Glenn Kessler-ed your way into this conversation to argue about technicalities. The gist of what the above commenter said is completely true and everyone understood that they meant people are going to bed hungry and not that they are emaciated like the people in Yemen. But rather than a dialogue that raises awareness about how America has a serious poverty problem that still needs to be addressed, we got Glenn Kessler to tell us that it isn't really that bad and we shouldn't worry about it. \n\nAre you really so unaware that you don't realize that's what you were doing? Do you just regurgiate the Wall Street Journal and hope to sound smart?",
"This is hilarious",
"I agree. The fact you think you are intelligent is hilarious.",
"once again, nothing of value from the moron who projects his own bias onto others. What a worthless sack of shit.",
">>Wow you're really just an idiot at this point having explained nothing but I'll continue to humor the simpleton.\n>\n>Dont get upset cause someone dares to point out your BS\n\nYou haven't. You're simply being dumb. Which is fine if that's all you're capable of. \n>\n>>Link please. Your copy paste didn't explain it.\n>\n>It did explain it. \n\nStill didn't. \n>\n>>You did not.\n>\n>I did as you said I did above.\n\nYou didn't. Try again little buddy. \n>\n>>PhD provide amazing metric for analysis and after feedback make it even better. Groundbreaking stuff yep.\n>\n>lulz! So, the organization that created and funded the use of the methodology agrees with the use if that methodology?\n>\n>Groundbreaking stuff there.\n>\n>>You didn't You copy pasted one thing that didn't explain anything.\n>\n>But it did exlpain the problems with the HDI formula.\n\nWhich in the same info says it's been corrected for so you haven't done anything. \n\n\n>\n>>You compare them to other countries. Should we compare them to California or the Sudan. You decide ?\n>\n>So, again.. how do you determine a metric is a failure or success?\n\nBy comparing them to first and 3rd world countries. Should we compare them California or Sudan?\n\n>\n>>Compare them to 1st and 3rd world countri as \n>\n>Why would we refer to countries based on their allegiance with the US and USSR during the cold war? What in hell do you think youre even talking about here.\n\nDumb talking point. Idiots don't understand colloquial language. Being dumb again I see. \n\n>\n>>Not true.\n>\n>Whats not true? Do you not know what these two programs even are?\n>\n>> See the reasons for medicaid expansion. \n>\n>whats the reason for expansion? Use your words.\n\nYou lied said everyone was covered. I gave you an example of people that weren't. It's ok I know you're very dumb. Please try again. \n\n>\n>>Guess what state didn't expand it. Are you just this stupid or pretending?\n>\n>expansions that weren't funded by the federal government and would be debt obligations on the states. You really have no clue what youre talking about do you. \n\nAh so you admit that there's people not covered. You're on the right track hahahaha. Now who isn't covered. \n \n>\n>>Wrong. Just assuming you're stupid at this point. 900% difference.\n>\n>I just provided the rates per 100k per each state .\n\nCheck the link dumb ass. You were wrong. It's hilariously pathetic you can't even just look at facts and admit you're wrong. \n\n\n>\n>> Alabama is a failure\n>\n>How do you determine what result is failure or success?\n\nBy comparing them successful areas. Oh a place has 900% worse metric. You wouldn't copy someone that fails classes. Or maybe some dumb Hillbillies would. \n\n>\n>>See all healthcare policies that are different.\n>\n>So, you clainmed its due to local and state polocies but cant list a single one that is responsible for these results? Do you often talk out of your and run when called on it?\n\nOh theres over 200. \n\n>\n>>Then why is Alabama having more teen pregnancy than California. \n>\n>multitude or reasons. culturally, economically, access to contraceptives to name a few. \n\nSo having less young people yet higher teen pregnancy. \n\n>\n>>By your metric Alabama should have less. \n>\n>Im not sure how many is considered an adequate number. Do we go off the natioanl average or some other metric?\n\nYou said they have less teens. They should have less per capita then. Simple fact. They don't. \n\n>\n>>We will just Consider it another failure of a dumb hillbilly state.\n>\n>but what federal laws is it youre claiming the state/local arent adhering to?\n\nDidn't claim that. Go back and reread. \n\nAnyways Alabama is a failure. It's a dumb Hillbilly state that's equivalent to malnourished African country.",
">>I pointed to the post.\n>\n>What about it was wrong?\n\nThe whole thing. \n>\n>>Infer your problems after the area of failure.\n>\n>but youre the one who has the problem with what I said. \n\nI said your opinions are discarded. \n>\n>>Try again simpleton.\n>\n>So, what was I wrong about?\n\nAll of it. \n>\n>>The ones you made. All.\n>\n>how were they uninformed?\n\nThey were wrong. \n>\n>>I did.\n>\n>incorrect.\n\nI did.",
">The whole thing.\n\nHow was the whole thing wrong?\n\n>I said your opinions are discarded.\n\nBut they are not\n\n>All of it.\n\nwhat was wrong about all of it\n\n>They were wrong.\n\nHow?\n\n>I did.\n\nincorrect",
">>The whole thing.\n>\n>How was the whole thing wrong?\n\nIt was. \n>\n>>I said your opinions are discarded.\n>\n>But they are not\n\nThey are. \n>\n>>All of it.\n>\n>what was wrong about all of it\n\nAll of it was wrong. \n>\n>>They were wrong.\n>\n>How?\n\nBy being incorrect. \n>\n>>I did.\n>\n>incorrect\n\nIncorrect.",
"To humor you for two seconds, let's take a look at those \"facts\" he presented. If you follow the link, you can see a convenient link in the upper right that says \"Methodology.\" If you follow that, you'll be informed that\n\n>The index is a dynamic quantitative and qualitative benchmarking model constructed from 58 unique indicators that measure the drivers of food security across both developing and developed countries.\n\nOk, so I expect to see a list of indicators on this page, right, since it's titled \"methodology.\" But instead I get a list of \"experts\" who \"contributed\". \n\nIf you scroll further, there is a section helpfully titled \"About the Global Food Security Index.\" So I'm finally going to get that list if indicators, right? Nope. If you expand that subsection, you just get a similarly worded statement\n\n>Using this definition adapted from the 1996 World Food Summit, the Global Food Security Index considers the core issues of food affordability, availability, quality and safety, alongside natural resources and resilience, across 113 countries. The index is a dynamic quantitative and qualitative scoring model, constructed from 59 unique indicators, that measure the drivers of food security in developing and developed countries. \n\nThey didn't even get the number of indicators the same, they changed from 58 to 59. These might as well be 11 herbs and spices. But this is always the problem with neoliberal statistics- they are painting a narrative just as much, but they attach a bunch of numbers to it and then pretend they are simply \"stating the facts.\" \n\nSo we aren't allowed to talk about \"starvation\" in the colloquial sense, because that isn't \"academic\" enough to be a \"serious\" conversation. So we *have* to attach numbers to it, and just coincidentally those numbers *happen* to undermine progressivism. \"It's not my fault, I just report the numbers, you are arguing against facts, not opinions.\" Except those \"numbers\" are literally just someone's opinion once the veil is pulled back. \n\nGiven that, whose opinion might it be? For that, we look to funding, so head to the \"About\" section. \n\n>The Global Food Security Index was designed and constructed by Economist Impact and is sponsored by Corteva Agriscience™\n\nDing ding ding!",
">You haven't. You're simply being dumb. Which is fine if that's all you're capable of.\n\nbut I did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\n>Still didn't.\n\nincorrect\n\n>You didn't. Try again little buddy.\n\nI did. you cant dispute any of it.\n\n>Which in the same info says it's been corrected for so you haven't done anything.\n\nBut it hasnt been corrected. It still is a formula that relies on overly vague data to arrive at very subjective results that are often not duplicated by peer groups. The results vary depending on who is carrying out the study.?\n\n>By comparing them to first and 3rd world countries. Should we compare them California or Sudan?\n\nWhy would we refer to countries based on their allegiance with the US and USSR during the cold war? What in hell do you think youre even talking about here.\n\n>Dumb talking point. Idiots don't understand colloquial language. Being dumb again I see.\n\nTheres nothing dumb about it. Youre using a categorization that was relevant to designate allies of the US/western world and the USSR. \n\nYou literally using language you dont even understand what it means.\n\n>You lied said everyone was covered.\n\nI didnt say everyone was covered. Please make sure you are reading the comments adequately. States very in regards to income threshold for qualification. Too high of an income means you have to seek other means of coverage. But if you are at or below the poverty threshold in the US you are covered by medicaid.\n\n> I gave you an example of people that weren't. It's ok I know you're very dumb. Please try again. \n> \n>Ah so you admit that there's people not covered. You're on the right track hahahaha. Now who isn't covered.\n\nsee above idiot. Im not covered by medicaid cause as pointed out above Im above the income threshold. .\n\n>Check the link dumb ass. You were wrong. It's hilariously pathetic you can't even just look at facts and admit you're wrong.\n\nIm not wrong. \n\n>By comparing them successful areas. Oh a place has 900% worse metric. You wouldn't copy someone that fails classes. Or maybe some dumb Hillbillies would.\n\nAgain, by what metric are you determining a result is either a failure or success?\n\n>Oh theres over 200.\n\nSo what federal policies is the local/state not adhering to thats leading to these results.. Simply list them.\n\n>So having less young people yet higher teen pregnancy.\n\nI gave you a multitude of factors. Is there any you disagree with or would like to discuss in greater detail?\n\n>You said they have less teens.\n\nI did not.\n\n>Didn't claim that. Go back and reread.\n\nYou did and now cant list a single federal policy or law. \n\n>Anyways Alabama is a failure.\n\nby what metric are you using that determines failure or success?\n\n> It's a dumb Hillbilly state that's equivalent to malnourished African country.\n\nBless your upset heart over a state you probably know nothing about. How does one develop some random hatred?",
">It was.\n\nbut how\n\n>They are.\n\nhow?\n\n>All of it was wrong.\n\nWhat was wrong about it?\n\n>By being incorrect.\n\nHow were they incorrect?\n\n>Incorrect.\n\nHow?",
"So food insecurity doesn’t mean people are hungry like the little girl in the commercial. That’s why they came up with the stupid term “food insecurity.” I love your ever shifting narrative. Just admit it’s a political statement and has nothing to do with helping people. People make bad decisions with food no matter how much money you give them. Go ahead open a salad restaurant in the hood and see what happens. Lol",
">>It was.\n>\n>but how\n\nAll of it. \n>\n>>They are.\n>\n>how?\n\nAll of it. \n>\n>>All of it was wrong.\n>\n>What was wrong about it?\n\nAll of it. \n>\n>>By being incorrect.\n>\n>How were they incorrect?\n\nAll of it. \n>\n>>Incorrect.\n>\n>How?\n\nBecause it was shown already.",
"I since looked into the link you posted and it's literally bunk science funded by megacorporate agrobusiness lmao",
"Smart people aren't full of shit and can vet their sources lol",
"you don't have sources. You are some kid who got sold on communism at some shit school because that is all you could get into. Now you spew bullshit on the internet with zero sources saying \"I went to school.\" You are a moronic piece of shit and a complete loser mad as successful people who are more intelligent than you.",
"You have since looked into that link despite talking this whole time about it? You didn't think to do that earlier? You know before saying idiotic shit. Holy shit you are a complete moron. You also have zero sources, so yeah, mine beats yours because you have nothing. Same thing you have in your head. I actually read some of your other posts. Holy shit you are a complete loser with zero knowledge. What shit place did you think you actually got educated at? They should be shut down.\n\nWe get it, you are a loser mad at the world and blame systems instead of the fact you are an idiot. If you want to get mad at someone get mad at your mother for not aborting you.",
">\tAll of it.\n\nWhat was wrong about all of it?\n\n>\tAll of it.\n\nWhat was wrong about all of it?\n\n>\tAll of it.\n\nWhat was wrong about all of it?\n\n>\tAll of it.\n\nWhat was wrong about all of it?\n\n>\tBecause it was shown already.\n\nBut you haven’t. Ive repeatedly asked you to do so.",
">>You haven't. You're simply being dumb. Which is fine if that's all you're capable of.\n>\n>but I did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\nYou didn't. \n>\n>>Still didn't.\n>\n>incorrect\n\nStill didn't. \n>\n>>You didn't. Try again little buddy.\n>\n>I did. you cant dispute any of it.\n\nStill didn't. I'll wait. \n>\n>>Which in the same info says it's been corrected for so you haven't done anything.\n>\n>But it hasnt been corrected. It still is a formula that relies on overly vague data to arrive at very subjective results that are often not duplicated by peer groups. The results vary depending on who is carrying out the study.?\n\nWhat hasn't been corrected? What hasn't been duplicated? \n\n>\n>>By comparing them to first and 3rd world countries. Should we compare them California or Sudan?\n>\n>Why would we refer to countries based on their allegiance with the US and USSR during the cold war? What in hell do you think youre even talking about here.\n\nStill dumb talking point. \n\n>\n>>Dumb talking point. Idiots don't understand colloquial language. Being dumb again I see.\n>\n>Theres nothing dumb about it. Youre using a categorization that was relevant to designate allies of the US/western world and the USSR. \n>\n>You literally using language you dont even understand what it means.\n\nhttps://www.dictionary.com/browse/third-world\n\nKeep up. \n\n>\n>>You lied said everyone was covered.\n>\n>I didnt say everyone was covered. Please make sure you are reading the comments adequately. States very in regards to income threshold for qualification. Too high of an income means you have to seek other means of coverage. But if you are at or below the poverty threshold in the US you are covered by medicaid.\n\nYou literally said everyone had insurance. You lied. \n\n>\n>> I gave you an example of people that weren't. It's ok I know you're very dumb. Please try again. \n>> \n>>Ah so you admit that there's people not covered. You're on the right track hahahaha. Now who isn't covered.\n>\n>see above idiot. Im not covered by medicaid cause as pointed out above Im above the income threshold. \n\nYou said everyone had insurance. You lied. \n>\n>>Check the link dumb ass. You were wrong. It's hilariously pathetic you can't even just look at facts and admit you're wrong.\n>\n>Im not wrong. \n\nYou were. You lied again. \n>\n>>By comparing them successful areas. Oh a place has 900% worse metric. You wouldn't copy someone that fails classes. Or maybe some dumb Hillbillies would.\n>\n>Again, by what metric are you determining a result is either a failure or success?\n\nBy comparing the best to the worst. Alabama is one of the worst. \n\n>\n>>Oh theres over 200.\n>\n>So what federal policies is the local/state not adhering to thats leading to these results.. Simply list them.\n\nhttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-0009.12469\n\nHere's 135. Peruse at your leisure but since you can't accept simple facts like California is 4/100k maternal deaths vs 36 for Alabama I don't expect anything from a liar. \n\n>\n>>So having less young people yet higher teen pregnancy.\n>\n>I gave you a multitude of factors. Is there any you disagree with or would like to discuss in greater detail?\n>\n>>You said they have less teens.\n>\n>I did not.\n\nYou said that California was younger than Alabama. Hence more teenagers in California. So just another lie from you. \n\n\n>\n>>Didn't claim that. Go back and reread.\n>\n>You did and now cant list a single federal policy or law. \n\nhttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-0009.12469 \n\n>\n>>Anyways Alabama is a failure.\n>\n>by what metric are you using that determines failure or success?\n\nComparing leading places to places that trail behind. \n\n>\n>> It's a dumb Hillbilly state that's equivalent to malnourished African country.\n>\n>Bless your upset heart over a state you probably know nothing about. How does one develop some random hatred?\n\nSorry I prefer my country to be one of the best in the world. Poor performing areas hold US back. their leading the country in dying young. Probably extra recently because of covid.",
"I was nearly sold on communism the first time I read the Communist Manifesto at 16 in high school history class. Then I went to a very expensive private institution and was taught to think like a neoliberal. But the doublethink was exhausting and I became a critic instead. \n\nNeoliberalism obscures bad policy behind fancy words and then talks down to anyone who disagrees. If you really give a shit about people (I did when I thought like you), search within yourself whether or not this is really the best way to help. People need to be engaged with, included. Not paternalistically taken care of by a technocratic nanny state. \n\nPaternalism is the ideology of the elites, laundered to the masses through the channels of information that we are taught to respect the most. Learn to reject it and you will realize how full of shit a lot of these people are.",
"Lmao pathetically refusing to acknowledge I'm right doesn't make you or any of those other neoliberals less wrong",
">>\tAll of it.\n>\n>What was wrong about all of it?\n\nIt was all wrong. \n>\n>>\tAll of it.\n>\n>What was wrong about all of it?\n\nIt was all wrong. \n\n>\n>>\tAll of it.\n>\n>What was wrong about all of it?\n\nIt was all wrong. \n>\n>>\tAll of it.\n>\n>What was wrong about all of it?\n\nIt was all wrong. \n\n>\n>>\tBecause it was shown already.\n>\n>But you haven’t. Ive repeatedly asked you to do so.\n\nI pointed to the post and said it was wrong so yes I have.",
"> I was nearly sold on communism the first time I read the Communist Manifesto at 16 in high school history class.\n\nOh I know. You talk just like a 16 year old who thinks the communist manifesto actually has any relevancy. Your intellectual development pretty much stopped there. Everything I saw in your posts reeks of someone who still acts like an immature child who hasn't actually experienced anything so you believe in fairy tales from 150 years ago like the communist manifesto. Get a life.\n\nBTW...you spout nothing but catch phrases and project your bullshit onto others. You are the worst kind of intellectual midget. If you cared about people you would shut the fuck up because you are so intellectually barren it hurts. Just a moron that spouts shit he doesn't understand because you have spent your life being a worthless sack of shit.",
"you haven't stated a single thing even in the ballpark of being correct. You are a complete and utter moron. Seriously, go smack your mother for not aborting your stupid ass.\n\nOn a side note its really easy to pick out the idiots who think they are smart. They constantly use the word neoliberal. It's just a form of prejudice used by idiots like you to group people into something you dislike. It is all you have done while providing literally nothing of substance. Just buzzwords and catchphrases. It is amazing you say so much while literally saying nothing.",
"No see, the problem you are having is that neoliberalism refuses to acknowledge anything outside of neoliberalism as serious or legitimate. So when people call you a neoliberal you feel dismissed because you don't really have a clear idea of what they mean. But they are actually pointing out to you that you live in a bubble of debate that is completely performative. Since you're *inside* the bubble, you can't see or understand their opinions at all. \n\nYou see, everything inside the bubble has to be supported by Facts and Statistics. Those are The Rules that we all agreed upon and anyone who doesn't agree to them doesn't get to participate. The only problem is, those facts and statistics just happen to be funded by corporations! Those media organizations just happen to mostly employ millionaires! So we can't engage with it without in some way legitimizing *your* completely delusional worldview that says certain sources have infinity gajillion credibility while others have negative infinity. \n\nYou're the one providing nothing of substance because to you the word \"substance\" means \"anything with a number\" and you can't even splutter out a defense of your corporate statistics because inside the bubble nobody has ever asked you to, or dared to question the infinite wisdom of the numbers. So you just reply by trying to boot me from the bubble of the debate, not let me participate because I'm not following The Rules. I just want you to know you're booting me out of the conversation because you *can't* counter what I'm saying, not because you don't want to.",
"This whole conversation is based on your original post.\n\n\"Lol. America’s poor have a weight problem this is such propaganda. That’s why they invented the term “food insecurity.” Nobody is starving here. Lol \"\n\nThe poor have a weight problem, ergo, they're not starving, ergo, the term food insecurity is some invented term for propaganda purposes.\n\nI'm pointing out that just because someone is overweight that doesn't exclude them from having experienced food insecurity. Food insecurity comes in the form of having lack of nutritional food, as well as the possibility of having no access to food. \n\nThere's levels of food insecurity, at one level you have some money but you can't afford food that has real nutritional value so your next step is to get food as cheap as possible. In this instance, those cheap foods generally comprise of overly processed food with low nutritional value but extremely high in calories. So yes, you can have food insecurity and be overweight. This is my counter point that poor overweight people aren't experiencing food insecurity.\n\nAnother level of food insecurity is purely a lack of food, hence starvation.",
"i am not going to read any of that. You are an idiot who didn't even know what starvation means. Just an intellectually bereft kid who got brainwashed. You were fun mocking at one time but now it's boring. You make the world a worse place to be. Try and get out to the real world. Then you might realize your labels and catchphrases are complete bullshit, especially when you use them as much as you do.",
"This so pathetic I'm crying lmao 😂. I don't know if I could have summed it up better myself and you're so unaware that you have no clue.",
"Food insecurity implies they are insecure about getting food. America’s poor have plenty of food they just make choices you don’t like. So say that instead of inventing a propaganda term like “food insecurity.” This is a political narrative you know it. It’s a chance for a country to take a shot at America.",
"You say choices that I don't like. I say choices that have been reduced to making a decision between a highly processed, high calorie foods that are extremely cheap and obtainable or buying an Angus steak and forgoing multiple fast food trips in its place, or simply going without.\n\nDon't know about you but an Angus steak doesn't make sense when I can get McDonald's like 3-4 times at the same cost and that McDonald's is better than starving. If you think eating McDonald's every day won't have an impact on your physical self then I urge you to watch the show super size me.",
"If it's so low there's no data to publish then it's a non-issue.",
"I didn’t say McDonald’s was great. There is that ever shifting narrative again. That’s why you use the term “food insecurity” it can mean anything you want to complete your narrative. The truth is those people make those choices it’s part of freedom. Go ahead give them all the money you want they will still make those choices.",
"I'm using the metrics and language used by the USDA that sets policies based on food security and food insecurity. \n\nhttps://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/definitions-of-food-security.aspx\n\n\nFood Insecurity\n\nLow food security (old label=Food insecurity without hunger): reports of reduced quality, variety, or desirability of diet. Little or no indication of reduced food intake.\n\nVery low food security (old label=Food insecurity with hunger): reports of multiple indications of disrupted eating patterns and reduced food intake.",
"I also bet you believe being poor is a choice, some kind of character flaw due to bad decisions.",
"&#x200B;\n\n>You didn't.\n\nI did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\n>Still didn't.\n\nI provided specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\n>Still didn't. I'll wait.\n\nI did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\n>What hasn't been corrected? What hasn't been duplicated?\n\nalready pointed out. \n\n>Still dumb talking point.\n\nTheres nothing dumb about your misuse of it and me pointing that out.\n\n>Keep up.\n\nWith what? I pointed why its not an irrelevant outdated designation.\n\n>You literally said everyone had insurance. You lied.\n\nI did not say that. Please read the comments.\n\n>You were. You lied again.\n\nI wasnt and there was no lie. Pay attention\n\n>By comparing the best to the worst. Alabama is one of the worst.\n\nSo, how do you determine if a metric is a failure or success? whats the threshold for these designations?\n\n>Here's 135. Peruse at your leisure but since you can't accept simple facts like California is 4/100k maternal deaths vs 36 for Alabama I don't expect anything from a liar.\n\nSo, which federal law is it youre claiming the state/local are not adhering to here?\n\n>You said that California was younger than Alabama.\n\nCorrect, california has the 4th youngest population in the US\n\n> Hence more teenagers in California. So just another lie from you.\n\nthat point about age had nothing to do with teenagers. Please ensure you understand what you are reading.\n\n>Comparing leading places to places that trail behind.\n\nSo, how do you determine if a metric is a failure or success? whats the threshold for these designations?\n\n>Sorry I prefer my country to be one of the best in the world. Poor performing areas hold US back. \n\nHow is alabama holding california back?\n\n>their leading the country in dying young. \n\n\\*they're and no they arent.\n\n>Probably extra recently because of covid.\n\nYou obviously dont know anything about covid either",
">It was all wrong.\n\nWhat was wrong about it?\n\n>It was all wrong.\n\nWhat was wrong about it?\n\n>It was all wrong.\n\nWhat was wrong about it?\n\n>It was all wrong.\n\nWhat was wrong about it?\n\n>I pointed to the post and said it was wrong so yes I have.\n\nYou did not and have been running from the question for days now.",
">&#x200B;\n>\n>>You didn't.\n>\n>I did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\nYou didn't if you did please post them here. \n>\n>>Still didn't.\n>\n>I provided specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\nYou didn't if you did please post them here. \n\n>\n>>Still didn't. I'll wait.\n>\n>I did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\nYou didn't if you did please post them here. \n\n>\n>>What hasn't been corrected? What hasn't been duplicated?\n>\n>already pointed out. \n\nYou didn't if you did please post them here. \n\n>\n>>Still dumb talking point.\n>\n>Theres nothing dumb about your misuse of it and me pointing that out.\n\nCrying about colloquial language is dumb. You cry about it. It's dumb. \n>\n>>Keep up.\n>\n>With what? I pointed why its not an irrelevant outdated designation.\n\nThats fine. But you understood it already. Want me to use HDI terms? Low development area. \n>\n>>You literally said everyone had insurance. You lied.\n>\n>I did not say that. Please read the comments.\n\nYou lied. Reread your comment. You said everyone was covered. \n>\n>>You were. You lied again.\n>\n>I wasnt and there was no lie. Pay attention\n\nYou lied. Reread your comment. You said everyone was covered. And now you lie about your lie. Becoming pathological are you?\n\n>\n>>By comparing the best to the worst. Alabama is one of the worst.\n>\n>So, how do you determine if a metric is a failure or success? whats the threshold for these designations?\n\nBy comparing best numbers to worse numbers. Alabama is well below even average so it's a failure. \n>\n>>Here's 135. Peruse at your leisure but since you can't accept simple facts like California is 4/100k maternal deaths vs 36 for Alabama I don't expect anything from a liar.\n>\n>So, which federal law is it youre claiming the state/local are not adhering to here?\n\nNow you're lying about what I said. I see you haven't read the paper. Say california is 4/100k, Alabama is 36 /100k or will you continue to lie about it ?\n>\n>>You said that California was younger than Alabama.\n>\n>Correct, california has the 4th youngest population in the US\n>\n>> Hence more teenagers in California. So just another lie from you.\n>\n>that point about age had nothing to do with teenagers. Please ensure you understand what you are reading.\n\nYou made the comparision I didn't. Teenage pregnancy is higher in Alabama yes. \n\n>\n>>Comparing leading places to places that trail behind.\n>\n>So, how do you determine if a metric is a failure or success? whats the threshold for these designations?\n\nBy of the same standard low income, low lifespan countries are. Alabama is a failure. It's a welfare queen from the blue states. Otherwise it'd be even worse off. \n>\n>>Sorry I prefer my country to be one of the best in the world. Poor performing areas hold US back. \n>\n>How is alabama holding california back?\n\nIt's holding the country back. Please try to read. I'm having to repeat myself multiple times due to your lack of comprehension of simple words. \n\n>\n>>their leading the country in dying young. \n>\n>\\*they're and no they arent.\n\n6 years dying earlier than the average Californian. \n\n>\n>>Probably extra recently because of covid.\n>\n>You obviously dont know anything about covid either\n\n\nAlabama is 2nd in deaths per capita. I'll go ahead and state they have a failed covid response as well.",
"Maybe you shouldn't assume the worse from people and impel you're depressing cynical view of the World on others keep your sadness to yourself don't impose it on others. =)",
"It for the most part is in America. Especially now you can get a job anywhere. Decisions have consequences and just like food. But that’s not the preferred narrative.",
">You didn't if you did please post them here.\n\nI did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\n>You didn't if you did please post them here.\n\nI did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\n>You didn't if you did please post them here.\n\nI did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\n>Crying about colloquial language is dumb. You cry about it. It's dumb.\n\nIm not crying about anything. Im pointing out your use of the terminology is not only outdated but nonsensical.\n\n>Thats fine. But you understood it already. Want me to use HDI terms? Low development area.\n\nNow was that so hard? seriously, no need to act like a child when someone points out youre misuse of a term.\n\n>You lied. Reread your comment. You said everyone was covered.\n\nEveryone thats considered impoverished. If you make to much money you need to seek other coverage. Pay attention.\n\n>You lied. Reread your comment. You said everyone was covered.\n\nSee above.\n\n>And now you lie about your lie. Becoming pathological are you?\n\nthere was no lie. Please take a moment to ensure what it is you claimed and what my response was.\n\n>By comparing best numbers to worse numbers. Alabama is well below even average so it's a failure.\n\nGood to see we are getting somewhere and you finally were able to better explain yourself. So, states that fall below the national average are catergorized as a failure. States above the average a success but what about states at the national average?\n\n>Now you're lying about what I said. I see you haven't read the paper. Say california is 4/100k, Alabama is 36 /100k or will you continue to lie about it ?\n\nI already provided the latest numbers per 1000.\n\n>You made the comparision I didn't.\n\nI made no such comparison. I pointed out factors that lead to differences in the categories you listed. Please pay attention to what it is youre arguing here.\n\n>Teenage pregnancy is higher in Alabama yes.\n\nCorrect, I never said it wasnt. Not sure your point here. I did list multiple factors that lead to such differences.\n\n>By of the same standard low income, low lifespan countries are. Alabama is a failure.\n\nHow is it a failure though? What is it and who are you claiming failed?\n\n>It's a welfare queen from the blue states. Otherwise it'd be even worse off.\n\nWhat you are referring to is the federal balance of payment ratios and you literally have no clue what you're talking about. Actually, 40 states have a balance of payment ratio higher than 1.00 meaning they receive more funding from the federal government than the contribute. It is typical for states to receive more in federal funds than they collect in federal taxes due to rampant federal deficit spending to the current tune of a debt nearing 29 trillion dollars. Nonetheless, using balance-of-payment ratios as a measure to support such a claim of \"blue states subsidizing red states' is a non-sequitur, because balance-of-payment ratios depend entirely on federal tax and spending policy. The amount of federal revenue collected from state taxpayers depends mostly on state income, and the federal income tax levies higher rates on filers with higher incomes. The federal income tax was designed to burden high-income earners on purpose and support policies to make the federal income tax increasingly weighted toward the wealthy. It is then hypocritical to decry the tax code for taxing high-income states more than low income states while intentionally designing tax policies with that effect.\n\nThe other side of balance-of-payment ratios is federal spending. Some of the most expensive federal programs are Medicaid, Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Each of these is “means tested,” meaning recipients must earn below a certain income threshold in order to receive federal assistance. Low-income states receive more federal money than high-income states by design because of means-tested federal poverty programs. As these programs expand and become more generous, the gap between state balance-of-payment ratios will only increase as federal taxes and spending increase to pay for means-tested poverty assistance. Plus, federal means-tested eligibility does not control for differences in cost of living between states. Mississippi and Hawaii are the least and most expensive states to live in, respectively, while federal eligibility requirements are uniform.\n\n>It's holding the country back. Please try to read.\n\nHow is it holding the country back though?\n\n>I'm having to repeat myself multiple times due to your lack of comprehension of simple words.\n\nBut its your continued vagueness that lead me to repeatedly ask you.\n\n>6 years dying earlier than the average Californian.\n\nAgain, already pointed out California has one of the youngest populations while alabama has one of the oldest.\n\n>Alabama is 2nd in deaths per capita.\n\nagain, alabama is one of the oldest states. Covid overwhelmingly impact the elderly to the point where 95% of those that died were 50 yo or older. Please try to apply a little critical thinking to these stats youre throwing out.\n\n>I'll go ahead and state they have a failed covid response as well.\n\nHow have they failed. What in your opinion should they have done differently?",
">>You didn't if you did please post them here.\n>\n>I did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\nYou copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments. \n\n>\n>>You didn't if you did please post them here.\n>\n>I did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\nYou copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments. \n>\n>>You didn't if you did please post them here.\n>\n>I did provide specific criticisms of the HDI formula and why its use leads to overly broad assumptions of results.\n\nYou copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments. \n\n>\n>>Crying about colloquial language is dumb. You cry about it. It's dumb.\n>\n>Im not crying about anything. Im pointing out your use of the terminology is not only outdated but nonsensical.\n\nYou whined about something you understood already. \n\n>\n>>Thats fine. But you understood it already. Want me to use HDI terms? Low development area.\n>\n>Now was that so hard? seriously, no need to act like a child when someone points out youre misuse of a term.\n\nOne of the complaints of hdi was the labeling yet you insist on using it. Ok weirdo. \n\n>\n>>You lied. Reread your comment. You said everyone was covered.\n>\n>Everyone thats considered impoverished. If you make to much money you need to seek other coverage. Pay attention.\n\nYou said everyone was covered. You lied. I pointed to people that were not. Instead of addressing it you simply lie. \n>\n>>You lied. Reread your comment. You said everyone was covered.\n>\n>See above.\n\nYou lied yes. \n\n>\n>>And now you lie about your lie. Becoming pathological are you?\n>\n>there was no lie. Please take a moment to ensure what it is you claimed and what my response was.\n\nYes you lied and now insist you didn't. That's pathological. \n>\n>>By comparing best numbers to worse numbers. Alabama is well below even average so it's a failure.\n>\n>Good to see we are getting somewhere and you finally were able to better explain yourself. So, states that fall below the national average are catergorized as a failure. States above the average a success but what about states at the national average?\n\nDo you know how comparisions work? Alabama is bottom of the barrel. \n\n>\n>>Now you're lying about what I said. I see you haven't read the paper. Say california is 4/100k, Alabama is 36 /100k or will you continue to lie about it ?\n>\n>I already provided the latest numbers per 1000.\n\nYou lied and did not post data. I linked you to data. Sorry your feelings don't refute data. Facts even if they hurt your feelings. \n\n>\n>>You made the comparision I didn't.\n>\n>I made no such comparison. I pointed out factors that lead to differences in the categories you listed. Please pay attention to what it is youre arguing here.\n\nYou compared ages of states when i referenced maternity mortality rates and teen pregnancy. Since Alabama has more teen pregnancies it should have less mortality. Instead it has more. \n\n>\n>>Teenage pregnancy is higher in Alabama yes.\n>\n>Correct, I never said it wasnt. Not sure your point here. I did list multiple factors that lead to such differences.\n\nRight. More policy failures failures unless you're making the argument more teen pregnancy is better. Do you make that argument? \n\n>\n>>By of the same standard low income, low lifespan countries are. Alabama is a failure.\n>\n>How is it a failure though? What is it and who are you claiming failed?\n\nAlabama government by not adopting standards in the paper you refuse to read that increase lifespan. \n\n>\n>>It's a welfare queen from the blue states. Otherwise it'd be even worse off.\n>\n>What you are referring to is the federal balance of payment ratios and you literally have no clue what you're talking about. Actually, 40 states have a balance of payment ratio higher than 1.00 meaning they receive more funding from the federal government than the contribute. It is typical for states to receive more in federal funds than they collect in federal taxes due to rampant federal deficit spending to the current tune of a debt nearing 29 trillion dollars. Nonetheless, using balance-of-payment ratios as a measure to support such a claim of \"blue states subsidizing red states' is a non-sequitur, because balance-of-payment ratios depend entirely on federal tax and spending policy. The amount of federal revenue collected from state taxpayers depends mostly on state income, and the federal income tax levies higher rates on filers with higher incomes. The federal income tax was designed to burden high-income earners on purpose and support policies to make the federal income tax increasingly weighted toward the wealthy. It is then hypocritical to decry the tax code for taxing high-income states more than low income states while intentionally designing tax policies with that effect.\n\nMore whining. Alabama is a welfare queen. Which states are the worst? Red state welfare queens. \n\n>\n>The other side of balance-of-payment ratios is federal spending. Some of the most expensive federal programs are Medicaid, Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Each of these is “means tested,” meaning recipients must earn below a certain income threshold in order to receive federal assistance. Low-income states receive more federal money than high-income states by design because of means-tested federal poverty programs. As these programs expand and become more generous, the gap between state balance-of-payment ratios will only increase as federal taxes and spending increase to pay for means-tested poverty assistance. Plus, federal means-tested eligibility does not control for differences in cost of living between states. Mississippi and Hawaii are the least and most expensive states to live in, respectively, while federal eligibility requirements are uniform.\n\nRight poor people gonna be poor. Alabama is poor. The richest areas of the country and even red states are blue. Rural areas are welfare queens even more so. Blue areas are economic engines of country even in the red states. \n\n>\n>>It's holding the country back. Please try to read.\n>\n>How is it holding the country back though?\n\nAh so you admit you couldn't read before. It holds it back because it lower the whole average. And goes backwards even as we can see with maternal mortality. \n\n>\n>>I'm having to repeat myself multiple times due to your lack of comprehension of simple words.\n>\n>But its your continued vagueness that lead me to repeatedly ask you.\n\nIt's not. It's your reading comprehension that's abysmal. And also your pathological lying. \n\n>\n>>6 years dying earlier than the average Californian.\n>\n>Again, already pointed out California has one of the youngest populations while alabama has one of the oldest.\n\nThat makes no difference to life span. \n\n>\n>>Alabama is 2nd in deaths per capita.\n>\n>again, alabama is one of the oldest states. Covid overwhelmingly impact the elderly to the point where 95% of those that died were 50 yo or older. Please try to apply a little critical thinking to these stats youre throwing out.\n\nYet it's only more recently they've had their surge pointing out its not age failures but policies failure. \n\n>\n>>I'll go ahead and state they have a failed covid response as well.\n>\n>How have they failed. What in your opinion should they have done differently?\n\nNot follow fox News and other right wing sources religiously. 60% of trump voters are vaccinated vs 90%+ of Biden voters. Those people dying at 10-1 Rate. Probably just be less right wing in general and follow science. Only republicans decide a pandemic is a good place to virtue signal.",
"> \n> \n>You copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments.\n\nThe info I provided is still relevant.\n\n>You copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments.\n\nThe info I provided is still relevant..\n\n>You copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments.\n\nThe info I provided is still relevant.\n\n>You whined about something you understood already.\n\nI pointed out your use of the terminology was nonsensical and should be updated to better reflect what it is youre trying to argue.\n\n>One of the complaints of hdi was the labeling yet you insist on using it. Ok weirdo.\n\nAnother aspect as to why HDI isnt reliable. \n\n>You said everyone was covered. You lied. I pointed to people that were not. Instead of addressing it you simply lie.\n\neveryone that is at or below the poverty level. Pay attention. Actually doing a little research as to what Medicaid is would help you understand the discussion and not think Im lying. \n\n>Do you know how comparisions work? Alabama is bottom of the barrel.\n\nthats not what I asked. Pay attention.\n\n>You lied and did not post data. I linked you to data. Sorry your feelings don't refute data. Facts even if they hurt your feelings.\n\nIve already provided the rates per 1000. Pay attention.\n\n>You compared ages of states when i referenced maternity mortality rates and teen pregnancy. \n\nThis is incorrect. Again, please take a moment to understand the point I was making. Age demographics was one of multiple factors listed that lea to differences in the measure you referenced. \n\n>Right. More policy failures failures unless you're making the argument more teen pregnancy is better. Do you make that argument?\n\nWhat policies would that be? Why do you keep claiming failed policy but cant cite a single policy?\n\n>Alabama government by not adopting standards in the paper you refuse to read that increase lifespan.\n\nWhat standards is that and what law are you claiming the government didnt adhere to?\n\n>More whining. Alabama is a welfare queen. Which states are the worst? Red state welfare queens.\n\nI pointed out why that analogy is simply ignorant. Please ensure you read it.\n\n>Right poor people gonna be poor. Alabama is poor. \n\nAgain, already pointed out why that analogy is incorrect. \n\n>The richest areas of the country and even red states are blue. Rural areas are welfare queens even more so. Blue areas are economic engines of country even in the red states.\n\nActually, 40 states have a balance of payment ratio higher than 1.00 meaning they receive more funding from the federal government than the contribute. It is typical for states to receive more in federal funds than they collect in federal taxes due to rampant federal deficit spending to the current tune of a debt nearing 29 trillion dollars. Nonetheless, using balance-of-payment ratios as a measure to support such a claim of \"blue states subsidizing red states' is a non-sequitur, because balance-of-payment ratios depend entirely on federal tax and spending policy. \n\n>Ah so you admit you couldn't read before. \n\nHow did I admit that? Context please..\n\n> It holds it back because it lower the whole average. And goes backwards even as we can see with maternal mortality.\n\nBut how is alabama holding back california or the country? Please provide an example to this accusations\n\n>It's not. It's your reading comprehension that's abysmal. \n\nI will continue to ask questions youre avoiding. \n\n>And also your pathological lying.\n\nand point out you not understanding what youre even arguing is not me lying.\n\n>That makes no difference to life span.\n\nIt does though. Life spans are increasing, people are living longer that means an older population will be subject to shorter life spans and younger people will have longer life spans.\n\n>Yet it's only more recently they've had their surge pointing out its not age failures but policies failure.\n\nWhat policy would that be? \n\n>Not follow fox News and other right wing sources religiously. \n\nWhat policy from fox news it is alabama is following? What does this even mean? You sound like some partisan nutjob that cries about fox news for no apparent reason. I that the case?\n\n>60% of trump voters are vaccinated vs 90%+ of Biden voters.\n\nTrump voters forthe most part live in rural areas that are far less populated which means chance of exposure is less likely than high populated urban areas in which biden voters live. This odd obsession on your part to make everything political is a very toxic disposition you should seriously get a hold of and not allow it to dictate your opinion on non-political issues. \n\nOn top of that, large segments of minorities such as hispanics and blacks that live in cities like LA and NYC are still unvaccinated. Something like only 45% of black residents in NYC are vaccinated. This whole narrative that its conservatives that are unvaccinated is just partisan misinformation. \n\n> Those people dying at 10-1 Rate.\n\nYes, unvaccinated people are 10 times more likely to be hospitalized/die from covid. That still puts the likelihood of a vaccinated person to be hospitalized at 0.035% and an unvaccinated person at 0.8% means the likelihood is still extremely low. \n\n> Probably just be less right wing in general and follow science. Only republicans decide a pandemic is a good place to virtue signal.\n\nYeap, you are definitely some partisan far left nut job who tries to make everything about politics. That explains your hatred for Alabama. Youve literally been brainwashed into thinking half the country is your enemy and you are a bitter idiot as a result.",
">> \n>> \n>>You copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments.\n>\n>The info I provided is still relevant.\n\nIt's been corrected for. Try again. \n\n>\n>>You copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments.\n>\n>The info I provided is still relevant..\n\nIt's been corrected for. Try again. \n>\n>>You copy pasted someone else's argument from 2010 that then reformed in 2011. Please provide updated arguments.\n>\n>The info I provided is still relevant.\n\nIt's been corrected for. Try again. \n\n>\n>>You whined about something you understood already.\n>\n>I pointed out your use of the terminology was nonsensical and should be updated to better reflect what it is youre trying to argue.\n\nYou tried to argue a non pertinent point of terminology because you can't accept Alabama is a failure. \n>\n>>One of the complaints of hdi was the labeling yet you insist on using it. Ok weirdo.\n>\n>Another aspect as to why HDI isnt reliable. \n\nWhy I wasn't using it. But we can compare direct components that shows Alabama is a first world failure. \n>\n>>You said everyone was covered. You lied. I pointed to people that were not. Instead of addressing it you simply lie.\n>\n>everyone that is at or below the poverty level. Pay attention. Actually doing a little research as to what Medicaid is would help you understand the discussion and not think Im lying. \n\nRight you said everyone was covered. You lied. Hence the need for medicaid expansion to cover people that fell in the rift. \n\n>\n>>Do you know how comparisions work? Alabama is bottom of the barrel.\n>\n>thats not what I asked. Pay attention.\n\nYes Alabama is a failure thanks for asking. \n\n>\n>>You lied and did not post data. I linked you to data. Sorry your feelings don't refute data. Facts even if they hurt your feelings.\n>\n>Ive already provided the rates per 1000. Pay attention.\n\nAlabama is 9x the rate of California. Say it with me. Alabama is 9x rate of California. Woman dying during pregnancy is bad. Hence Alabama is worse or do you think more women should die during pregnancy?\n\n>\n>>You compared ages of states when i referenced maternity mortality rates and teen pregnancy. \n>\n>This is incorrect. Again, please take a moment to understand the point I was making. Age demographics was one of multiple factors listed that lea to differences in the measure you referenced. \n\nYes teen pregnancy is higher Alabama thus their mortality should be lower. However they are higher shows other policy failures. \n\n>\n>>Right. More policy failures failures unless you're making the argument more teen pregnancy is better. Do you make that argument?\n>\n>What policies would that be? Why do you keep claiming failed policy but cant cite a single policy?\n\nI gave you 135 to review. Still waiting for you to read. Not surprised you didn't because you're a liar. \n\n>\n>>Alabama government by not adopting standards in the paper you refuse to read that increase lifespan.\n>\n>What standards is that and what law are you claiming the government didnt adhere to\n\nWow you're dumb. I did this multiple times. Hahahah now I can see youre not just pretending to be dumb. Just a pathological liar. \n\n>\n>>More whining. Alabama is a welfare queen. Which states are the worst? Red state welfare queens.\n>\n>I pointed out why that analogy is simply ignorant. Please ensure you read it.\n\nAlabama is a welfare queen. \n>\n>>Right poor people gonna be poor. Alabama is poor. \n>\n>Again, already pointed out why that analogy is incorrect. \n\nAlabama is a welfare queen. \n>\n>>The richest areas of the country and even red states are blue. Rural areas are welfare queens even more so. Blue areas are economic engines of country even in the red states.\n>\n>Actually, 40 states have a balance of payment ratio higher than 1.00 meaning they receive more funding from the federal government than the contribute. It is typical for states to receive more in federal funds than they collect in federal taxes due to rampant federal deficit spending to the current tune of a debt nearing 29 trillion dollars. Nonetheless, using balance-of-payment ratios as a measure to support such a claim of \"blue states subsidizing red states' is a non-sequitur, because balance-of-payment ratios depend entirely on federal tax and spending policy. \n\nYep and red states are the worst. Tell me the ones that receive less than they give. I'll wait. \n\n>\n>>Ah so you admit you couldn't read before. \n>\n>How did I admit that? Context please..\n>\n>> It holds it back because it lower the whole average. And goes backwards even as we can see with maternal mortality.\n>\n>But how is alabama holding back california or the country? Please provide an example to this accusations\n\nBecause of their failures in policy. Just a general backward place. \n\n>\n>>It's not. It's your reading comprehension that's abysmal. \n>\n>I will continue to ask questions youre avoiding. \n\nContinue to lie you mean. \n>\n>>And also your pathological lying.\n>\n>and point out you not understanding what youre even arguing is not me lying.\n\nYou continue to lie. \n\n>\n>>That makes no difference to life span.\n>\n>It does though. Life spans are increasing, people are living longer that means an older population will be subject to shorter life spans and younger people will have longer life spans.\n\nCurrent life spans are not affected by that. \n\n>\n>>Yet it's only more recently they've had their surge pointing out its not age failures but policies failure.\n>\n>What policy would that be? \n\nPlenty of studies. I'll wait till you read the other one before I give you more to ignore. Please continue to lie though it's entertaining. \n>\n>>Not follow fox News and other right wing sources religiously. \n>\n>What policy from fox news it is alabama is following? What does this even mean? You sound like some partisan nutjob that cries about fox news for no apparent reason. I that the case?\n\nFox news promoted vaccine hesitancy. \n\n>\n>>60% of trump voters are vaccinated vs 90%+ of Biden voters.\n>\n>Trump voters forthe most part live in rural areas that are far less populated which means chance of exposure is less likely than high populated urban areas in which biden voters live. This odd obsession on your part to make everything political is a very toxic disposition you should seriously get a hold of and not allow it to dictate your opinion on non-political issues. \n\nYet they die at 10x the rate of the vaccinated. The recent surge has been in all red areas. \n>\n>On top of that, large segments of minorities such as hispanics and blacks that live in cities like LA and NYC are still unvaccinated. Something like only 45% of black residents in NYC are vaccinated. This whole narrative that its conservatives that are unvaccinated is just partisan misinformation. \n\nIt's not. \n\n>\n>> Those people dying at 10-1 Rate.\n>\n>Yes, unvaccinated people are 10 times more likely to be hospitalized/die from covid. That still puts the likelihood of a vaccinated person to be hospitalized at 0.035% and an unvaccinated person at 0.8% means the likelihood is still extremely low. \n\nYes when you talk about millions you still have hundreds of thousands dying that didn't need to. Do you understand how government policy works?\n\n>\n>> Probably just be less right wing in general and follow science. Only republicans decide a pandemic is a good place to virtue signal.\n>\n>Yeap, you are definitely some partisan far left nut job who tries to make everything about politics. That explains your hatred for Alabama. Youve literally been brainwashed into thinking half the country is your enemy and you are a bitter idiot as a result.\n\nWe have the numbers. Q nuts all on the right. Antivaxxers. Mostly on the right. Luckily at this point they are just committing suicide by covid instead of being biological terrorist. \n\nAlabama is a just one shit hole. But it's mostly just the people.",
">>It was all wrong.\n>\n>What was wrong about it?\n\nAll of it was incorrect\n>\n>>It was all wrong.\n>\n>What was wrong about it?\n\nAll of it was incorrect \n>\n>>It was all wrong.\n>\n>What was wrong about it?\nAll of it was incorrect\n>\n>>It was all wrong.\n>\n>What was wrong about it?\nAll of it was incorrect\n>\n>>I pointed to the post and said it was wrong so yes I have.\n>\n>You did not and have been running from the question for days now.\n\nI did and you just refuse to take Personal responsibility for your own education.",
"&#x200B;\n\n>It's been corrected for. Try again.\n\nThe fact the formula still relies on overly vague data that requires subjective interpretations hasnt been corrected. \n\n>It's been corrected for. Try again.\n\nThe fact the formula still relies on overly vague data that requires subjective interpretations hasnt been corrected. \n\n>You tried to argue a non pertinent point of terminology because you can't accept Alabama is a failure.\n\nBut it is pertinent. Just cause you were misusing it and cant simply own up to it doesnt make it non-pertinent. \n\n>Why I wasn't using it. But we can compare direct components that shows Alabama is a first world failure.\n\nWhat determination are you using to label a certain result failure or success? Or is this just something you're subjectively applying?\n\n>Right you said everyone was covered. You lied. Hence the need for medicaid expansion to cover people that fell in the rift.\n\nincorrect, I said everyone that is at or below the poverty level. Pay attention. \n\n>Yes Alabama is a failure thanks for asking.\n\nWhat determination are you using to label a certain result failure or success? Or is this just something you're subjectively applying?\n\n>You lied and did not post data. I linked you to data. Sorry your feelings don't refute data. Facts even if they hurt your feelings.Ive already provided the rates per 1000. Pay attention. \n> \n>Alabama is 9x the rate of California. \n\nIve already provided the rates per 1000. Pay attention.\n\n>Yes teen pregnancy is higher Alabama thus their mortality should be lower. \n\nthats completely a misinterpretation of how data works.\n\n>I gave you 135 to review. Still waiting for you to read. Not surprised you didn't because you're a liar.\n\nSo, What policies would that be? Why do you keep claiming failed policy but cant cite a single policy?\n\n> \n> \n>Wow you're dumb. I did this multiple times. Hahahah now I can see youre not just pretending to be dumb. Just a pathological liar.\n\nYou still havent pointed to any federal laws the state isnt adhering to though that is the cause of this. \n\n>More whining. Alabama is a welfare queen. Which states are the worst? Red state welfare queens.I pointed out why that analogy is simply ignorant. Please ensure you read it. \n> \n>Alabama is a welfare queen. \n> \n>Right poor people gonna be poor. Alabama is poor.Again, already pointed out why that analogy is incorrect. \n> \n>Alabama is a welfare queen.\n\n42 of the 50 states are welfare queens then according to your poor understanding of how balance-of-payment ratio works. \n\n>Yep and red states are the worst. Tell me the ones that receive less than they give. I'll wait.\n\nNew York. Massachusetts, Nebrask, Wyoming, Colorado, South Dakota, New Jersey, Illinois\n\n>Because of their failures in policy. Just a general backward place.\n\nWhat policy would that be?\n\n>Continue to lie you mean.\n\nWhat is the lie?\n\n>Current life spans are not affected by that.\n\nLUL!! it most certainly does. A younger population will have a longer life expectancy due to advances in healthcare and living than an older population.\n\n>Plenty of studies. I'll wait till you read the other one before I give you more to ignore. Please continue to lie though it's entertaining.\n\nSo, what polocies are you claiming are a failure?\n\n>Fox news promoted vaccine hesitancy.\n\nSo, what policy is it your claiming that is? Can you not even attempt to support your BS accusations?\n\n>Yet they die at 10x the rate of the vaccinated. \n\nThey as in unvaccinated? Dont be stupid or try to lie here.. I will continue to call you out like I have been doing.\n\n>The recent surge has been in all red areas.\n\nThe northeast is currently experiencing a surge that is setting record levels of covid cases. Its seasonal, meaning as people gather indoors to retreat from hot summer months or cold winter months covid spreads more. The same we saw in Florida and Texas during the summer will now happen in the north during winter. \n\n>It's not.\n\nSure its not.. Covid actually targets people based on their political affiliation as youre trying to argue here. \n\n>Yes when you talk about millions you still have hundreds of thousands dying that didn't need to. Do you understand how government policy works?\n\nWhat government policy are you talking about? You love to spout the phrase but have no clue to substantiate it whatsoever. \n\n>Probably just be less right wing in general and follow science. Only republicans decide a pandemic is a good place to virtue signal.Yeap, you are definitely some partisan far left nut job who tries to make everything about politics. That explains your hatred for Alabama. Youve literally been brainwashed into thinking half the country is your enemy and you are a bitter idiot as a result. \n> \n>We have the numbers.\n\nWhat does this mean? Its obvious youre a partisan nutjob who tries to make everything about politics cause you have no life outside of it. \n\n> Q nuts all on the right. Antivaxxers. Mostly on the right. \n\nAlready pointed out unvaccinated people exist on all sides and a varied demographics that don't align with your partisan narrative. \n\n>Luckily at this point they are just committing suicide by covid instead of being biological terrorist.\n\nI cant honestly imagine the level of hatred you must possess towards the people of this country to spout such toxic politically driven rhetoric. \n\n>Alabama is a just one shit hole. But it's mostly just the people.\n\nWhat is it about the people that make it shitty? What is it you know about either alabama or california?",
">All of it was incorrect\n\nIncorrect how?\n\n>All of it was incorrect\n\nIncorrect how?\n\n>I did \n\nYou've yet to explain yourself.\n\n>and you just refuse to take Personal responsibility for your own education.\n\nWhy is it my responsibility to explain your accusations?",
">>All of it was incorrect\n>\n>Incorrect how?\n\nIt was wrong. \n>\n>>All of it was incorrect\n>\n>Incorrect how?\n\nIt was wrong. \n>\n>>I did \n>\n>You've yet to explain yourself.\n\nI have no personal responsibility to educate a simpleton. \n>\n>>and you just refuse to take Personal responsibility for your own education.\n>\n>Why is it my responsibility to explain your accusations?\n\nIt's not. You're education is your responsibility and you're a failure.",
">It was wrong.\n\nHow was it wrong? Youve yet to explain yourself.\n\n>It was wrong.\n\nWhat was wrong about it?\n\n>I have no personal responsibility to educate a simpleton.\n\nEducate me about what? \n\n>It's not. You're education is your responsibility \n\nBut youre the one claiming I'm uneducated and have yet to explain why. \n\n>and you're a failure.\n\nWhat am I a failure at? Again, youve yet to provide any context to your accusations.",
">>It was wrong.\n>\n>How was it wrong? Youve yet to explain yourself.\n\nThe whole statement. \n>\n>>It was wrong.\n>\n>What was wrong about it?\n\nAll of it. \n>\n>>I have no personal responsibility to educate a simpleton.\n>\n>Educate me about what? \n\nEducate you on subjects you lack knowledge in but still comment about \n>\n>>It's not. You're education is your responsibility \n>\n>But youre the one claiming I'm uneducated and have yet to explain why. ..\n\nIt's not my responsibility. Just pointing your comments are ignored. \n\n>\n>>and you're a failure.\n>\n>What am I a failure at? Again, youve yet to provide any context to your accusations.\n\nYou failed to educate yourself.",
">\tThe whole statement.\n\nHow was the whole statement wrong?\n\n>\tAll of it.\n\nBut how?\n\n>\tEducate you on subjects you lack knowledge in \n\nAnd what would that be?\n\n>but still comment about\n\nIm asking you explain yourself. Can you do that?\n\n>\tIt's not my responsibility. \n\nBut it is your responsibility to explain yourself.\n\n\n>Just pointing your comments are ignored.\n\nIgnored by who?\n\n>\tYou failed to educate yourself.\n\nWhat is it I failed to educate myself about?",
">>\tThe whole statement.\n>\n>How was the whole statement wrong?\n\nIt was incorrect. \n>\n>>\tAll of it.\n>\n>But how?\n\nReview your statement, all of it is self explanatory. \n>\n>>\tEducate you on subjects you lack knowledge in \n>\n>And what would that be?\n\nThe statement in question. \n>\n>>but still comment about\n>\n>Im asking you explain yourself. Can you do that?\n\nIt's not my responsibility. \n>\n>>\tIt's not my responsibility. \n>\n>But it is your responsibility to explain yourself.\n\nIt's not. Just informing you your statements are discarded. \n>\n>\n>>Just pointing your comments are ignored.\n>\n>Ignored by who?\n\nAnyone with knowledge on the subject. \n>\n>>\tYou failed to educate yourself.\n>\n>What is it I failed to educate myself about?\n\nThe statement in question.",
">It was incorrect.\n\nwhat was incorrect about it?\n\n>Review your statement, all of it is self explanatory.\n\nBut youre the one claiming it was incorrect. Why cant you explain yourself?\n\n>The statement in question.\n\nWhich is? Again, why cant you explain yourself?\n\n>It's not my responsibility.\n\nBut it is. You claimed my comment was wrong and have yet to explain yourself.\n\n>It's not. Just informing you your statements are discarded.\n\nBut its hasnt been discarded. You're unable to intelligently explain yoursefl and as a result been running from your comments for days.\n\n>Anyone with knowledge on the subject.\n\nWho would that be or is this more BS you cant intelligently explain?\n\n>The statement in question.\n\nBut the statement is you claiming Im uneducated. Why cant you explain yourself?",
">>It was incorrect.\n>\n>what was incorrect about it?\n\nAll of it. \n\n>\n>>Review your statement, all of it is self explanatory.\n>\n>But youre the one claiming it was incorrect. Why cant you explain yourself?\n\nBecause I don't have a responsibility to educate you. \n\n>\n>>The statement in question.\n>\n>Which is? Again, why cant you explain yourself?\nI can. Just I have no responsibility to. \n\n>>It's not my responsibility.\n>\n>But it is. You claimed my comment was wrong and have yet to explain yourself.\n\nIt's not. I'm not your teacher. Simply informing you that you're wrong is enough. \n\n>\n>>It's not. Just informing you your statements are discarded.\n>\n>But its hasnt been discarded. You're unable to intelligently explain yoursefl and as a result been running from your comments for days.\n\nIt has. Informing you that you should educate yourself is enough. \n>\n>>Anyone with knowledge on the subject.\n>\n>Who would that be or is this more BS you cant intelligently explain?\n\nYou made dumb incorrect statements and I informed you of it. \n>\n>>The statement in question.\n>\n>But the statement is you claiming Im uneducated. Why cant you explain yourself?\n\nI can. I have no need to.",
"&#x200B;\n\n>All of it.\n\nbut how was all of it incorrect? Explain yourself\n\n>Because I don't have a responsibility to educate you.\n\nBut we are talking about your claims of my comments being wrong. Why cant you intelligetnly explain yourself?\n\n>It's not. I'm not your teacher. Simply informing you that you're wrong is enough.\n\nWhat am I wrong about? Why cant you intelligently explain yourself?\n\n>It has. Informing you that you should educate yourself is enough.\n\nWhat is it Im uneducated about? Why cant you intelligently explain yourself?\n\n>You made dumb incorrect statements and I informed you of it.\n\nWhat statements were dumb and how? Why cant you intelligently explain yourself?\n\n>I can.\n\nGo no...\n\n> I have no need to.\n\nmore like youre incapable of doin so. I've exposed you unintelligent arguments and forced you to run from every single accusation youve made.",
"Aww poor baby gave up cause they were so wrong.",
">It’s been corrected for. Try again.\n\nThe fact the formula still relies on overly vague data that requires subjective interpretations hasnt been corrected. \n\n>It’s been corrected for. Try again.\n\nThe fact the formula still relies on overly vague data that requires subjective interpretations hasnt been corrected. \n\n>You tried to argue a non pertinent point of terminology because you can’t accept Alabama is a failure.\n\nBut it is pertinent. Just cause you were misusing it and cant simply own up to it doesnt make it non-pertinent. \n\n>Why I wasn’t using it. But we can compare direct components that shows Alabama is a first world failure.\n\nWhat determination are you using to label a certain result failure or success? Or is this just something you’re subjectively applying?\n\n>Right you said everyone was covered. You lied. Hence the need for medicaid expansion to cover people that fell in the rift.\n\nincorrect, I said everyone that is at or below the poverty level. Pay attention. \n\n>Yes Alabama is a failure thanks for asking.\n\nWhat determination are you using to label a certain result failure or success? Or is this just something you’re subjectively applying?\n\n>You lied and did not post data. I linked you to data. Sorry your feelings don’t refute data. Facts even if they hurt your feelings.Ive already provided the rates per 1000. Pay attention. \n>\t\n>Alabama is 9x the rate of California. \n\nIve already provided the rates per 1000. Pay attention.\n\n>Yes teen pregnancy is higher Alabama thus their mortality should be lower. \n\nthats completely a misinterpretation of how data works.\n\n>I gave you 135 to review. Still waiting for you to read. Not surprised you didn’t because you’re a liar.\n\nSo, What policies would that be? Why do you keep claiming failed policy but cant cite a single policy?\n\n>\t\t> \tWow you’re dumb. I did this multiple times. Hahahah now I can see youre not just pretending to be dumb. Just a pathological liar.\n\nYou still havent pointed to any federal laws the state isnt adhering to though that is the cause of this. \n\n>More whining. Alabama is a welfare queen. Which states are the worst? Red state welfare queens.I pointed out why that analogy is simply ignorant. Please ensure you read it. \n>\t\n\tlabama is a welfare queen. \n>\t\t>\tght poor people gonna be poor. Alabama is poor.Again, already pointed out why that analogy is incorrect. \n>\t\tA\tbama is a welfare queen.\n\n42 of the 50 states are welfare queens then according to your poor understanding of how balance-of-payment ratio works. \n\n>Yep and red states are the worst. Tell me the ones that receive less than they give. I’ll wait.\n\nNew York. Massachusetts, Nebrask, Wyoming, Colorado, South Dakota, New Jersey, Illinois\n\n>Because of their failures in policy. Just a general backward place.\n\nWhat policy would that be?\n\n>Continue to lie you mean.\n\nWhat is the lie?\n\n>Current life spans are not affected by that.\n\nLUL!! it most certainly does. A younger population will have a longer life expectancy due to advances in healthcare and living than an older population.\n\n>Plenty of studies. I’ll wait till you read the other one before I give you more to ignore. Please continue to lie though it’s entertaining.\n\nSo, what polocies are you claiming are a failure?\n\n>Fox news promoted vaccine hesitancy.\n\nSo, what policy is it your claiming that is? Can you not even attempt to support your BS accusations?\n\n>Yet they die at 10x the rate of the vaccinated. \n\nThey as in unvaccinated? Dont be stupid or try to lie here.. I will continue to call you out like I have been doing.\n\n>The recent surge has been in all red areas.\n\nThe northeast is currently experiencing a surge that is setting record levels of covid cases. Its seasonal, meaning as people gather indoors to retreat from hot summer months or cold winter months covid spreads more. The same we saw in Florida and Texas during the summer will now happen in the north during winter. \n\n>It’s not.\n\nSure its not.. Covid actually targets people based on their political affiliation as youre trying to argue here. \n\n>Yes when you talk about millions you still have hundreds of thousands dying that didn’t need to. Do you understand how government policy works?\n\nWhat government policy are you talking about? You love to spout the phrase but have no clue to substantiate it whatsoever. \n\n>Probably just be less right wing in general and follow science. Only republicans decide a pandemic is a good place to virtue signal.Yeap, you are definitely some partisan far left nut job who tries to make everything about politics. That explains your hatred for Alabama. Youve literally been brainwashed into thinking half the country is your enemy and you are a bitter idiot as a result. \n>\t\t\te\tave the numbers.\n\nWhat does this mean? Its obvious youre a partisan nutjob who tries to make everything about politics cause you have no life outside of it. \n\nQn\tts\tall on the right. Antivaxxers. Mostly on the right. \n\nAlready pointed out unvaccinated people exist on all sides and a varied demographics that don't align with your partisan narrative. \n\n>Luckily at this point they are just committing suicide by covid instead of being biological terrorist.\n\nI cant honestly imagine the level of hatred you must possess towards the people of this country to spout such toxic politically driven rhetoric. \n\n>Alabama is a just one shit hole. But it's mostly just the people.\n\nWhat is it about the people that make it shitty? What is it you know about either alabama or california?"
] | 1,087 |
videos
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[deleted by user]
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https://youtu.be/GmG4X9PGOXs
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/r/videos/comments/qq071d/everyday_normal_guy/
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[
"Old people burning, old people burning, put your hands up!",
"The whole trilogy is great (Everyday Normal Guy, Everyday Normal Guy 2, Everyday Normal Crew) and then he even got a part in WTF Collective 3 which made him part of the Jon Lajoie Cinematic Universe. Great stuff!",
"Shocked to say it was a little catchy.",
"The 3 videos are just awesome.",
"Weird. Had this stuck in my head the other day",
"I love Lil Dicky!",
"Fun fact: Jon Lajoie also wrote some songs for The Lego Movie 2, like \"[Not Evil](https://youtu.be/OIvW2tSjfXk?t=82)\", my personal favourite."
] | 7 |
videos
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Everyday Normal Guy
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https://youtu.be/L9BpQ05Kt_k
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/r/videos/comments/qq07fi/tribal_people_react_to_heavy_metal_for_the_first/
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[
"Wasn't sure where to put this so if you believe it's in the wrong place, please let me know. \n\nI found this fascinating to watch and thought I'd share.",
"Define \"tribal\"",
"It's the name of the video if you're referring to the use of the word in the heading.\n\n I believe the Channel is Indian, so the reference is from them.",
"I think they are more up north, Pakistan ~~or Afghanistan.~~",
"Not a good choice for introduction to metal. I would've gone with a studio release, simply because of the sound. Or pick something like Deadhead from Townsend, something that is clear, precise and oozes talent. Melodic death metal is generally better introduction because...it is melodic.",
"That lady with the arm bands was a metal-head for sure",
"No, she's a metal-arms",
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adivasi\n\nThere ya go! It's obviously a word with *connotations* but it's just a translation I believe.",
"Cheers for letting me know, appreciate it. First time I've found the channel.",
"I watched a video like this where some people (Indian / Pakistani) were eating cheesecake for the first time. \"Whoever made this, I want to kiss his hands.\"",
"Guy who is off-screen is such a shithead. \"very few people like this kind of music\" and \"you can go crazy from it\", while literally showing millions on a single concert. Beyond belief.",
"The YT suggestion algorithm can sometimes be amazing. The suggestion I got one time was for the same people trying McDonald's for the first time",
"\"That \"woman\" should be thankful for the huge set of drums\"",
"\"She should be thankful for those huge drums\". Haha! Loved it.",
"Wrong tribe. The should have shown it to the [yanamango tribe instead](https://youtu.be/UuZXr8GBzxA)",
"There's this video of a traditional Sufi circle dance that's really cool to watch.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/G5goISKPSH8\n\nFrom a more anthropological perspective it's cool how different cultures developed different tribal social dances like Maori Hakkas or Canadian [First Nations Pow Wows](https://youtu.be/TcnA5nUNSE4).\n\nWith Heavy Metal, at most shows they were just headbangers until the late 80s when they adopted trends from the punk scene. That wall of death is just insanely stupid.\n\nIn the punk scene they developed slam dancing aka moshing and circle pits which is reminiscent of the Sufi dance but more dangerous than a hippy drum circle.\n\nI've gone to countless gigs and sometimes it's more interesting watching the crowd than the band or watching how the crowd and the band work collaboratively to give everyone a borderline spiritual experience. Humans kind of suck sometimes but we do have our moments where we work together to make something incredible.",
"It’s Pakistan. That woman is a Pakistani Hindu.\n\nWomen in Afghanistan don’t dress like that.",
"I think [this is the music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_5yt5IX38I) the off screen guy is referring to in the beginning. I had a similar reaction to that as these guys did to Metallica.",
"[Jalal Chandio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVlcalsFL10), mentioned in the video. That vibrato!",
"Thanks, was not certain which one it was.",
"I'd also choose a studio recording, definitely, but if you're going to introduce something as \"this is big in the west, look at all these people enjoying it\", the Moscow concert is not a bad pick. I hope the audio was not just the laptop speakers though.",
"Possible copyright issues with the studio release. Metallica have been tight asses about it before.",
"Its the same person",
"I also loved the guy with glasses. He genuinely seemed blown away by the whole thing.",
"She looked so cool. She was like a hot Sith almost lol",
"You're getting mad at a translation of a translator trying to translate an idea they're unfamiliar with. Between the high likelihood there's stuff lost in translation and the difficulty he must have trying to explain it, I'm willing to not be mad.",
"If this is the original video, there's a pinned comments where the creator of the video meant that in THEIR country only a few people listen to music like that.",
"do you know korky buchek? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHfF9wbZxwE",
"They mention at the beginning that they had another sound system \"heavy speakers cause the laptop speakers don't do it justice\"...",
"They joke about it in the beginning, talk about \"heavy speaker\" cause the laptop is not going to be good enough..\n\nThat is why i said that Deadhead would be a good choice, there is live video with excellent sound. Metallica in Moscow at the turn of the decade, live.. it is quite shitty audio and they aren't performing at their very best. That show was more about the atmosphere and symbolism.\n\nHmm... Nightwish live would be also a VERY good choice.",
"That was such a genuine and amazing video!",
"I loved how she kept getting asked \"Is it too loud? Do you need an aspirin?\"\n\nI was just waiting for her to reply \"Stop being such a bitch\" after the third time that question was asked. She was loving it, lol.",
"I *really* hope they were translating him saying 'Bro' (multiple times!) was accurate to what he was saying",
"Yeah I liked it a lot. The \"his\" in that quote bothers me a bit, but it's just a pronoun, and it's probably a matter of translation anyhow. But it does make me wonder if he assumed it must have been made by a professional chef, therefore it must be a man.",
"Good. Now play them Babymetal to finalize the brainmelt.",
"No every use of a pronoun where someone prefers something else is the big bad \"pronoun boogieman\" coming to get you. If you always look for something to complain about, you will always find it.",
"I remember taking an Indian girl who was kind of sheltered to see Wu Tang Clan. It was a fun experience.",
"This very concert was the one where 50 something people died and many were raped. It was the Monsters of Rock in 1991 after the Soviet Union fell. They held a free concert and over a million people showed up.\n\nEDIT: Here's Jason Newsted talking about it at the timestamp:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/yNd4rKPyBD4?t=275",
"Ok, I don't think that's necessary. I'm not saying I was triggered, I only wanted to point out how it made me think about that person's mentality. There's no need to be nasty.",
"I wasn't being nasty, but I feel the opinion you expressed was pedantic.",
"Abdul's BEARD, tho!",
"In many gendered languages the default pronoun is male. Obviously, it's a remnant of a patriarchal society, but I don't think that's what you should draw conclusions about a concrete person from.",
"Love the guy in the big flowing Turban. Have seen him in other videos like this.\n\nThink it was the Michael Jackson one.",
"Yeah, connotations and intent get lost really easily in translation. That's why you have to train to be a translator and you can't just get someone who speaks both languages. \n\nAlso, they translated the one guy as saying \"bro\" a lot. It's safe to assume he wasn't saying \"bro.\" Same thing with \"tribal.\" That definitely doesn't have the same connotations and we wouldn't use that phrasing as Americans.",
"Yeah that's pretty much what I figured. It's what I meant by a matter of translation.",
">Hmm... Nightwish live would be also a VERY good choice.\n\nNightwish are not at all representative of mainstream metal.\n\nThe Metallica show they used in the video is basically the perfect example of the spectacle of a live metal show for someone who has never witnessed one. It's also professionally recorded so has pretty good audio for a live show, better than many modern live recordings tbh.",
"You can literally see the Soviet Union collapsing in this video, highly recommend watching the original. The crowd is such a vibe its just pure palpable rage.",
"Haha, that subtle disappointment when the singing starts, beautiful. \n\nI really loved how they connected (or didn't connect) to the music though. Some of the intense rhythms and layering in South Asian music is evocative of similar feelings within metal. It seems they are building to it, but I was really hoping to see their reactions to a band like Meshuggah.",
"It was really a tough job indeed. People don't really get it! This music must be 30 years old to us but for them it's from 2050. There is a clear reason this video is titled as them listening to heavy metal for the first time and not metallica. We were asked to let them listen to The Hu band after they loved Mongolian throat singing ft Batzorig Vaanchig. Of course they would be disoriented if they listen to The Hu without first listening to Heavy metal but not many people would appreciate. Its easier for someone to comment but it's difficult task on the other hand to successfully make these videos. Anyways, thank you for understanding and showing respects. Yours, a metalhead Adnan Ali (TRYBALS)",
"No we are different :)",
"We did get a copyright claim for this as well. The idea was to show them sth else. The crowd... \nAdnan Ali \n(TRYBALS)",
"This video is dumb AF. The commentator is saying a buncha bullshit and they chose a video with absolutely terrible audio quality. Get this shit outta heeeeeere",
"I really wish they were listening on better quality speakers than a laptop\n\nEDIT: I just want them to be able to fully appreciate the depth of sound, fuck me right?",
"The people in the video are all from rural Sindh. We dont call anyone \"indigenous\" in Pakistan. I presume this is based on Indians thinking of themselves as Aryan?",
"I love nightwish, but yea, they aren’t “stereotypical metal” at all",
"\"How amazing, bro,\" *indeed.*",
"i share their dislike for metallica and slayer, you can add metal in your name but doesn't make you metal",
"Bing Bong Bingbongbing",
"I would have picked Creeping Death from the same concert. Better song, better lyrics, better solo, better riffs, better transition and also really good audience chants in the middle.",
"There were zero deaths at that concert my guy.",
"I get the impression that the interviewer is not exactly a connoisseur of thrash metal.",
"Imagine trying to be so alternative that you dismiss the most succesful metal-band of all time.",
"Metallica! Eh.. Mithali-ka?",
"That's not what it meant.\n\nIt does directly translate into but it means people really like it.\n\nCalm down",
"Man, a little heart broken of their reactions.",
"...... I get people from Baloch claiming they are different but when Punjabi Pakistanis come and say they're Indo-Aryan and the Indian Punjabis are not,makes you lot as bad as the Sanghis with your virulent need to dissociate yourselves from another country.\n\nYour presumption is incorrect but anyone from the upper half of the subcontinent is by default an Indo-Aryan.",
"I think more westerners need to see this YT channel. Americans and French especially.",
"[Here is the link you speak of. (Not Rick Rolling anyone, or using the Peyton Manning photo. The real link)](https://youtu.be/9iYQxH2-VM8)",
"I can't believe I clicked that link. I was not expecting that. Bravo good sir.",
"You’re approaching this with a western lens and he’s approaching it with a Pakistani one. It really was used for torture for middle eastern prisoners and for a good reason, and that’s what he’s communicating. It’s really not a stretch to believe that heavy metal isn’t as culturally accepted and liked there.",
"Different channel",
"He said bhai, which means brother. You are correct!",
"You’re welcome. I’m not here to trick people. \n\nThe cheesecake thing was really awesome. More people should see it.",
"He wasn't saying bro, he was saying bhai, which means brother.",
"Dude, Im saying that there is no such fucking thing as being an \"Indo Aryan\". It has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. In Pakistan we have actual ethnic groups and thats what we mean by Punjabis and Sindhis being their own thing. There is no need to group existing ethnic groups into super groups just because you are insecure af.\n\nIndo Aryan/Indo Iranian/Indo European are fucking language trees. You are not Aryan, we are not Aryan. Nobody is a fucking Aryan. Grow up.",
"The lady in the red is a babe.",
"I think it's good to show the crowd though. Lots of people enjoying it.",
"To be fair that crowd is mindblowing all on its own.",
"I am Dravidian you muppet. I don't give two fucks about some weird genealogy nonsense. You lot just love to group all of us under the Sanghi umbrella of insecurity when you yourselves constantly seek to dissosciate yourselves.\n\nIndo-Aryans were basically wandering nomads and nothing to be proud of to be descended from. They are a people and yes, the only vestiges of that culture are modern day subcontinental languages. The insecure one here is you. lmao. \n\nSome Pakistanis on the net are almost as bad as the \"raitas\" and Sanghis here. God so fucking toxic.",
"They had a very mixed reaction.\n\nThe girl loved it. The gentlemen in the glasses thought it was soothing and seemed entranced by it. The larger gentlemen looked to be genuinely intrigued by it.\n\nThe older gentlemen wasn't really a fan, but he also said he didn't like loud horns and such and was really just not into loud noises in general.\n\nThey studied the music and the video quite intensely. Made comparisons to their local music, and tried to describe the feelings it evoked.\n\nWhat was heart breaking?",
"\"We dont have music like this in my village\".",
"I'm a gen x person. This music is from my age.\n\nThe generation before me, had the same look on their face for a long time. Like they just didn't hear the complexity and melody within the chaos. It's a look of disappointment.",
"Skip to 2:45.\n\n\nWell sir, let me tell you about someone named Travis Scott.",
"Your knowledge of your own neighbour is pretty sad if you group us under one umbrella in terms of ethnic groups. A Pakistani is the last the person I'd expect this level of ignorance from.",
"Well, to be honest, he has been a little bitch.",
">and \"you can go crazy from it\"\n\nHe was talking about when the song was used in Guantanamo Bay as a method of torture.",
"[ **Jump to 02:45 @** Tribal People React to Heavy Metal For The First Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9BpQ05Kt_k&t=0h2m45s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: TRYBALS, Video Popularity: 97.97%, Video Length: [16:03])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@02:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9BpQ05Kt_k&t=0h2m40s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"You could, you know, watch the video before commenting.",
"The dude in green was making me bust up. He kept raising one hand almost like it was getting to intense. \"Whoa, bro slow down!\"",
"Best regards,\n\nUSSR Officials",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtHW2Rpl4Q",
"God damn that woman is *strikingly* beautiful.",
"There’s one where they follow a Bob Ross tutorial and it is fantastic",
"Just started watching and I couldn't be happier about them choosing footage from the Moscow 91 gig!",
"I didn't group you into anything. Wtf are you actually reading here? I ungrouped us from this imaginary Aryan bs your countrymen harp on about. I literally do not care about your ethnic groups.",
"Its not BS tho, Aryans were just wandering nomads who just happen to be the progenitors for major Central Asian cultures. To be proud about it is pointless but to deny its existence is another stupid take.\n\nFunny how when we say Pakistanis for the most part are not too different from us other than a distinctly different ideology, y'all jump on this bandwagon of how we do not show any respect to diversity in Pakistan and bandy about the \"sem 2 sem\" troupe. Stop playing the victim when in fact, there\n\n>In Pakistan we have actual ethnic groups and thats what we mean by Punjabis and Sindhis being their own thing. There is no need to group existing ethnic groups into super groups just because you are insecure af.\n\nYou alright there mate ?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nEDit: Just see you post on chutyapa. Pakistani Chodi metaverse gg.",
"'I myself am heavy... Heavy as in weight right?'\n\n'See that's why we had to add more light in the back.'\n\n'Ahhhhh.'",
"So they listening through tinny laptop speakers? who thought that was a good idea to get the real reaction.",
"or perhaps i don't like their so called \"metal\" oh and fyi i'm into alternative metal, they're fakes, pretending to be metal with their rock but adding in metal in their name, literally anyone who is into metal will attest that they are more hard rock than metal, so instead of being an cunt and making an assumption, get your facts straight",
"> You are not Aryan, we are not Aryan. Nobody is a fucking Aryan.\n\nYou do know that Aryan is a Sanskrit word, right? Learn sanskrit and you will know who is an aryan and who is not.",
"Sanskrit, the 3500 year old dead language that you pretend to speak natively. Sure buddy.",
"\"I should be alone, eating this by the river\". My man!",
"Bruh, \"aryan\" is a Sanskrit word. What else will you learn to know its meaning? Latin?\n\n> that you pretend to speak natively. \n\nWhat are you talking about?",
"I guess head bobbing is not a \"humans in general\" thing. How could they not bob their heads to it?",
"Stop acting like a clown. Genre gatekeeping is the lamest thing ever.",
"You are a clown, you are correct now off you go peasant, go listen to your weak music, filthy primitive. Fyi i wasn't gatekeeping or whatever your disgusting kind calls it, know your place fool",
"Not fully understanding something so foreign to him doesn’t make him a “shithead.”\n\nThinking that everyone should think and feel and know as you do, else they are inferior: that’s a shithead.",
"i'm sorry - i thought you said HEAVY metal? What tis this shit?",
"I hope I'm not hte only one who thinks they get these people off the street and give em some pocket change in exchange for dressing up in some \"ethnic\" looking clothes, and acting confused in front of a camera. Because that's how most \"ethnic\" \"tribal\" documentaries are filmed.",
"The person speaking isn’t translating their own thoughts and they’re obviously some Metallica nerd. He like “this is the extended solo version.” The person he’s telling that to has no clue what any of that means.",
"He also tells them that they’re heavy and aggressive before they even hear it. If your goal is to film peoples reactions, why would you put preconceived notions in their mind before they can react?",
"So far all of my preconceptions of you have turned out to be totally accurate.\n\n\nI will never argue with someone elses preferences in music and you might not like them for whatever reason, that's fine.\nBut that doesn't change the fact is that Metallica is celebrated as one, if not the most influential metal band in the world. Nothing's ever going to stop that.",
"completely different channels. For some reason that area of the world likes to produce a lot of knockoff channels. Like the ones that patterned themselves after Grandpa's Kitchen, but instead of a grandpa, there's a grandma and she uses a knife/cutting board thing.\n\nOn this subject alone there's \n\n* Trybles\n* Tribal People Try\n* Reactistan\n* Tribal Reactz... etc etc",
"That's why you don't make assumptions or judge people, its my own personal preference and opinion, people can listen to it if they want, that's their choice, doesn't mean i or other people have to like the band, some like hard rock, others metal, others death metal",
"Don't tell me you love heavy metal but still act like a bitch over shit like this lmao",
"Even in America metal is nowhere near as popular as it used to be.",
"why would she play like that???? LMAO",
"Shang-Chi doesn't stand a chance",
"It really was haha. Brings a smile on my face to see their reactions, so genuine and happy",
"That's completely inaccurate though. It has nothing to do with the style of music, it's playing any music very loudly and on repeat to prevent the prisoners from sleeping for days and to wear them out psychologically. The torturers at Guantanamo chose metal because it was so loud and jarring to people who had never heard anything like it. I'm sure they played much heavier music than Enter Sandman. Personally I would spill all my secrets after the 3rd playthrough of Smash Mouth \"All Star.\"",
"How miserable your life must be to be bothered about something like this",
"By all means, drop that downvote. That'll sure help.",
"And Metallica weren't even the headliners that night. Pantera, Metallica, and then ACDC.",
">I'm sure they played much heavier music than Enter Sandman. \n\nThey did play the Barney Theme and Christina Aguilera too.",
"\"Talking about heavy metal\" great! \"First band mentioned\" Metallica. Instant disappointment. Like I get in the age of sweaty dad rock it was heavy but its literally not even close in today's standards.",
">I also loved the guy with glasses. He genuinely seemed blown away by the whole thing.\n\n\nI watch this channel regularly, and I'm pretty sure he's the most educated of the bunch. I don't know to what extent, and he definitely is still unfamiliar with a lot of Western culture. However, his open-mindedness, and the way he speaks on everything he is shown, definitely leads me to believe he's got a few more years of schooling than the rest, and probably works in a bit more \"white collar\" field.",
"I never get tired of seeing people experience cool things for the first time. No matter if they love it or don't love it, the experience itself always always has value. Thanks to the Trybals creators, this made my day.",
"It’s called having an open mind. Sadly, many cultures have lost this.",
"So poetic!",
"🤡",
"No this is the internet, must critique and yell at the clouds!",
"This is cold and delicious.",
"You and I both know that this is nowhere near the best song on that album, or even in their top ten. But normies like it, so I'm that context, it fits.",
"You are just like your family",
"simp",
"Should crowd fund tickets for the woman.",
"Relaxing music is obviously preferred.",
"Fuck. Thats almost the entire population of my country...",
"🤡",
"I like reactistan. There's this Old stubborn strait to the point Guy Mustafa. He's always like we have something like this in my village but it's better. One guy seems to be learning english and enjoys eating and trying stuff. Downsides is that they fucking just pick at food a lot of times and the producers don't tell them how to eat something. Then everything is just compared to Roti.",
".",
"That's sad they think Metallica is heavy metal",
"But would it not be more of formal usage of the word? As in bro in English is pretty casual. For instance you probably wouldn't hear someone at work calling a customer \"bro\" in English but in Urdu(?) it would be much more acceptable to use \"bhai\" in more circumstances as it's more respectful if that makes any sense, sort of like you can't go wrong calling a man sir in English. I could be totally wrong as I'm just going by what I've seen in videos on Pakistan and don't really know the language at all, that's just what it seems like to me.",
"It’s not like there aren’t a million copycat western channels. It has nothing to do with being middle eastern… don’t be all xenophobic about it.",
"your country only has 50 people?",
"Seems like they have their formula down. One guy to compare it to something everyone understands and one dude that is there to have a good time.\n\nAlso Roti is delicious.",
"This is great.\n\nAnother channel I subscribe to is “Reactistan”.\n\nThe people there are from small villages in balochistsn and Sindh (Pakistan). Also a healthy amount of Muslims and Hindus from those two provinces star in their videos.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/c/REACTistan",
"If I had to hear enter sandman on repeat for an hour, I would lose my mind.",
"I'm going to call you out now. Because you decided that understanding a trendy business structure is inherently \"xenophobic\" and then calling these folks Middle Eastern. \n\nIndia, Pakistan, and Bangladesh is not the Middle East. It is west Asia and has it's own unique cultures. \n\nThe reason they spawn so many knockoffs is because of proliferation of cell phones and the growing access to the internet. It's super cheap to start one of these channels. This combined with the lingual division of the subcontinent and the number of burgeoning communities within it. You can find a lot of \"isolated tribes.\" The show runners just need a relative that lives in the countryside. The money they make is great too, because they can build a patreon for subscriptions and keep churning content. Those dollars stretch pretty far in rural parts of the world. Some channels use it for charitable means like Grandpa's Kitchen uses for feeding an orphanage. There's a very large market to carve a niche into using a proven template and formula. The target audience is generally not themselves, but to people overseas. And the foreign reaction formula makes sense. \n\nYou just need a small collection of quirky individuals. Show them things from outside their region. Or give them foreign food. And ask them how they think about it. Something as simple as cheesecake, you see an adorable gentleman say that he wants a large cheesecake for himself to eat alone by a river. Yea dude, don't we all? Same episode a stern looking man in traditional garb giggles a bit because this cake is so enjoyable to him. It's lovely and relatable. And there's a load of people that can do the same exact content with just a cell phone camera. \n\nNo xenophobic person spends this much time guffawing about their commonality with other cultures.",
"Nah, knockoff YouTube channels aren’t unique to Pakistan, and lumping it in with other trends as if western knockoffs are different seems a little racist.",
"The video said 51 but yeah who knows really.. I didnt know about the rape part. Wouldn't that be hard as theres many people around you that will stop your gross intentions?",
"For good reason. It sucks. =)",
"No like actually, about 50 people ended up hospitalized but that's it.",
"There don't seem to be any good sources saying that. Apparently about 50 people were hospitalized but no rapes and no deaths reported.",
"I've been watching their videos for some time, those guys seem really awesome. Always so grateful and authentic.",
"They literally explained they brought speakers specifically because the laptop wouldn't do it justice.",
"Cool, cool.",
"She is stunning.",
"Why not the other guy too? He seemed even *more* into it.",
"You're thinking of death metal or grindcore which is much heavier. Metallica is the definition of heavy metal.",
"Crazy being excited to go to a concert and not come back alive.",
"Every sith is hot tho",
"That as well, your mentality thinking your safe while apparently not. Whelp my gf isn't going to a concert alone unless shes with friends.",
"Once again, that's because you're thinking of heavier genres. Heavier genres being more prevalent and popular these days doesn't change what heavy metal is.",
"Even in english bro and brother have very different usages",
"West Asia is the middle east. I think you're getting it mixed up with South Asia with according to my five second google search includes the countries you're referring to while West Asia is basically Iran to Syria/Turkey/Israel/etc.",
"She's always been a favorite of mine in this channel, it's genuinely nice to see her back.\nAnother interesting fellow is the elder who has always seen something similar but much better in his village. Good wholesome stuff",
"Busting balls transcends cultures.",
"C'mon man you know how internet is. This is the most accessible. They would've loved things like unforgiven or anything else non-Metallica melodic, but that's not as hard hitting for response",
"I mean, I suppose by 1991 standards they were heavy metal. I'd be interested to see their reaction to say like, Black Tongue, Opeth, Mick Gordon, Insomnium, etc.",
"I don't know what you'd call those arm ring sleeve things she is wearing but they look really neat.",
"> It has nothing to do with the style of music, it's playing any music very loudly and on repeat",
"Meaning changes over time. Etymology is interesting, but learning the original meaning of a word doesn't necessarily tell you how it's used now. Like it or not, the word \"Aryan\" has lost whatever connotations it had in the original Sanskrit, at least in the English-speaking western world.",
"I know I know, you're correct. I'm just kidding.",
"> at least in the English-speaking western world.\n\nExactly. World doesn't revolve around English speaking people. \n\n> Like it or not, the word \"Aryan\" has lost whatever connotations it had in the original Sanskrit\n\nThere are like 5 million men named Aryan in India.",
"If they have to be more formal with using the word \"Bhai\" it would be \"Bhai Jaan\". So Bro is more accurate for the word bhai",
"OK so being very honest here as the creator of TRYBALS. The only geniune channel I could see is Reactistan. Those guys are from very backward tribal regions of Balochistan. The ladies on their channel are from different Hindu tribes of Sindh. Most men are from the Brahvi tribe, almost all! The women are from Kohli, Meghwar and other hindu tribes. So now about our channel, I started following reactistan even before they started all this tribal people try series. They began taking kids to movie theatres and let them watched the movies and at the end asked for their honest reviews. I loved the concept but not many people cared as they weren't showing the process where kids were watching. Obviously filming is restricted in a movie theatre. So they started their tribal people try series and it was an instant hit. Then came another channel \"Tribal People Try\" and they were very lucky to have the same channel with the series started by another channel. They weren't doing anything new back then but just repeating the same thing that Reactistan had been doing. But they got the advantage of being recommended more due to their channel's name. So, this isn't my first time on YouTube as I already had a successful gaming channel and I used to manage other channels as well. But for some reason I wanted to do such kind of content, I knew I would make changes but for the first few videos I wanted to see what people think of it. I started studying both Reactistan and Tribal People Try since June 2020, the editing of Reactistan was more harder but more captivating and I started studying them alone. Also they were of the same region as mine. In November 2020 we started the auditions but there was a problem, we couldn't find any female contestants. Being muslims most of them weren't willing to be recorded on screen and that's what made me realize why Reactistan has got all the female participants Hindus. They must have faced the same challenge. Anyways so we did the same and Parvati came to join us. Abdul Aziz Rind is originally from a tribal region near Quetta, Balochistan but moved to our town \"Tando Allahyar\" recently. So we did the same videos that were Coffee, pop rocks and sour candies. During the last video about sour candies I realized that the guys from tribal people try weren't giving any geniune reactions. Those were the same candies we also got because we don't have warheads here in Pakistan anyways when our cast said it wasn't sour and no strong reactions were seen in that video people started commenting that those were not warheads which I remember was the same thing on the \"Tribal People Try\" channel. I tasted those candies and those weren't sour at all. Most of them atleast, but those guys from the other channel had been given fake reactions. Anyways so our next video was about VR and it was the first one to be done in our niche, what we did next was new thing as well. The reaction to any video by a tribal people channel that was about Mr Bean and from then on all we did was just came with different and new ideas and concept which other channels are doing right now. A channel owner contacted me right after our reaction video to Michael Jackson crossed 100K views in a matter of days. His intentions were to ask me for ideas and dealing with copyright issues. I know this post is getting longer so I'll leave it here and I am open to any questions if anyone has any.",
"I agree, most of the channels make money. For ours, TRYBALS makes an average of about 2500-3000 usd per month with just 4-5 videos per month. We also have a lot of copyright issues so as we keep doing more such videos the average income gets more down. Anyways our patreon funds add up to 500-600 usd per month and there are no tiers! Which means anyone could become a patron for as less as 1$. What we do with our patreon is in a pinned post there which lets a patron see where their money is being used. Up until now we have installed every participants with solar setups and different home appliances. We spent some of our patreon money for treatment of a cancer patient that was a friend of Mohammad Riaz and a bladder stone surgery for a 2 year old girl from Muharam's village. The list is updated each month! I am telling you all this to be aware of such channels. Ours barely make more than 5 videos per month but others put 3 videos per week. One Indian channel puts a video daily! Multiply that with what our channel makes and yes the least amount goes for those participants. It's like they view them as cows used for milk.",
"Pretty neat. I'm glad to hear that income is going to good use helping the folks involved in the project.",
"He still might not be into thrash or Metallica specifically. He also could have just liked Enter Sandman more or assumed it would go over better with viewers. It was a super popular song back in the day, much more so than anything of Ride the Lightning."
] | 183 |
videos
|
Tribal people react to Heavy Metal for the first time.
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78aJYViBBM&feature=youtu.be
|
/r/videos/comments/qq13u7/orphan_bear_cub_plays_in_the_snow_and_woods_bear/
|
[
"Adorable. Please crosspost to /r/petthedamnedbear.",
"I guess I’m still not awake. I read Oprah bear cub. Still very cute.",
"What happens when this bear outgrows them? Do bears tame well? Fully grown it'll weigh north of 150 kilos...",
"He wants to play so bad",
"maybe as long as this guy can afford 3-4 40lb bags of Kibbles and bits every week then the adult bear should stay cuddly? most likely he gets mauled by next winter?",
"Unbearably adorable",
"That guy thinks it’s a dog. He can’t see an inch in front of his face.",
"Ok, I posted this here a couple of days ago but I'll still upvote this 'cause more people need to see this.",
"Bears can't really be tamed or domesticated. They can be trained to an extent and become familiar with people. They remain capable of easily killing or maiming and are naturally aggressive. The methods to train bears by enforcing a fear of humans can be abusive.",
"How soon until the old guy gets the Treadwell treatment?",
"What an absolute unit",
"Wait, why can't they be domesticated? \n\nI'd assume we just don't have any reason to genetically breed out the violent parts, but it should be possible if someone spent generations doing it.",
"I know. \n\nWe domesticated wild dogs, cows, pigs, and chickens over multiple generations.\n\nWhy couldn't we theoretically do the same to wild bears? Financially there is no reason for us to, but how are wild bears different than wild dogs?\n\n>Leopards, bears, killer whales are not, though they can be trained or tamed.\n\nNot saying they are domesticated. I'm saying why couldn't they be? What's stopping us from breeding them over hundreds of years and domesticating them?\n\n\"they can't be domesticated\"\n\nisn't \n\n\"they aren't domesticated\"",
"Domestication is the process of genetic modification via selective breeding of the species over time by humans, not the training of any individual animal from birth to be friendlier (or whatever). Selectively breeding bears is totally possible, and taming them is not only possible, there are tamed bears currently all over the world.",
"Don't all bears hibernate in the Winter>?",
"energy wise these two couldn't be more mismatched",
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear)\n\nWojtek initially had problems swallowing and was fed condensed milk from an old vodka bottle. He was subsequently given fruit, marmalade, honey, and syrup, and was often rewarded with beer, which became his favourite drink. \n\nWojtek helped his unit to convey ammunition by carrying 100-pound (45 kg) crates of 25-pound artillery shells, never dropping any of them. While this story generated controversy over its accuracy, at least one account exists of a British soldier recalling seeing a bear carrying crates of ammo.[10] The bear mimicked the soldiers: when he saw the men lifting crates, he copied them. Wojtek carried boxes that normally required 4 men, which he would stack onto a truck or other ammunition boxes.[",
"**[Wojtek (bear)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_\\(bear\\))** \n \n >Wojtek (1942 – 2 December 1963; Polish pronunciation: [ˈvɔjtɛk]; in English, sometimes spelled Voytek and pronounced as such) was a Syrian brown bear (Ursus arctos syriacus) bought, as a young cub, at a railway station in Hamadan, Iran, by Polish II Corps soldiers who had been evacuated from the Soviet Union. In order to provide for his rations and transportation, he was eventually enlisted officially as a soldier with the rank of private, and was subsequently promoted to corporal. He accompanied the bulk of the II Corps to Italy, serving with the 22nd Artillery Supply Company.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)"
] | 19 |
videos
|
Orphan bear cub plays in the snow and woods. Bear was found wandering old man's back yard last spring.
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gJvnW_4Qo
|
/r/videos/comments/qq18vf/pictures_of_a_failed_capitalism/
|
[
"I wonder how much it would cost to film your friends to act like this out on the street, and then post it on reddit. not that that is what is going on here, of course not",
"I think the most expensive part would be to clean out the street first.",
"This destitute has nothing to do with how a very liberal city was mismanaged would it? Or, do you simply blame free trade rather than the people making the policies that caused this?",
"I'm blaming policymakers of course, hence the title.",
"No, the title is blaming a form of economy/commerce. If you were blaming policymakers then it would have said something like \"pictures of failed policies\"",
"Not the form, just what it looks like when it fails, when you do it bad. In particular when you turn basic health and freedom into business."
] | 6 |
videos
|
Pictures of a failed capitalism
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq1cdr/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qq1cdr/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"Hahah awesome.",
"Riiiight",
"People are idiots.",
"Lizard people, I knew it!",
"What the?\n\nI'm pro science and vaccines but this channel has 2 videos and they're both propaganda. The production quality for this video isn't cheap. It's not super high end but someone put a bunch of effort into making this stuff. The about section doesn't say who these people are.\n\nThe Pharma industry stands to make billions off Covid and they charge name brand retail prices because the US doesn't allow generics thanks to the influence of the Pharma lobby.\n\nThe US also allows Pharmaceutical advertising. Drugs that have a laundry list of horrible side effects are sold like cereal ads. The only person that should be prescribing you drugs is your doctor and it shouldn't be because you were too dumb to change the channel during the commercials.\n\nUS media sells drugs to people on tv and makes it seem like these consumers are authorities or experts. You want anti-vaxxers? That's how you get them.",
">e and vaccines but this channel has 2 videos and they're both propaganda. The production quality for this video isn't cheap. It's not super high end but someone put a bunch of effort into making this stuff. The about section doesn't say who these people are.\n\nI had no involvement but know who the people involved were. I know that the intent was to combat anti vaccine misinformation; there was nothing shady or underhanded about the effort.",
"I like the animation style but trying to objectively critique the video, it comes off as combative more than anything.",
"Fair enough."
] | 8 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://youtu.be/apzXGEbZht0
|
/r/videos/comments/qq1hhb/still_face_experiment/
|
[
"Anyone interested should watch the 'Babies' documentary series on Netflix they cover this in. An episode. It's pretty crazy actually. Babies are mysterious creatures",
"That’s fuckin’ nuts.",
"Lots of people are about to suddenly understand where all of their trauma comes from lol",
" mother.exe has stopped working",
"That mom is kinda hot",
"It's almost like human beings are designed to be social creatures, need and require empathy and need external stimuli to understand the world around them.",
"I keep saying that those babies are up to something, but nobody seems to listen.",
"Pshh your sleeping on Dr. Edward Tronick, man is a silver fox.",
"I was about to say a lot of people are going to discover they are on the spectrum with this video.",
"Child neglect is more than just not feeding and clothing them.",
"This is actually from years ago. That baby today? Adolf Hitler",
"Uhhh...I'd feel the same if my wife did that to me too.",
"What a weirdly condescending comment",
"I just find this to be not really all that surprising that when you act emotionless near an infant they don't seem to like it, as would anyone.",
"Free Hat McCormick",
"babies DGAF about plain moms",
"Been there done that, therapy helped.",
"I feel bad for the mom in this experiment. I know it was only a short time and she agreed to do it, but it's gotta be so hard to watch your kid who you are so used to sharing all those emotions with essentially lose its mind because of what you are doing. This was probably as stressful on the mom as it was the kid :( but I appreciate the scientific value",
"Yes!!",
"My mom worked in a kindergarten with a kid that was the victim of motherly neglect. The irony? The mom was staying at a place that was to help new mothers struggling to take care of their babies. Basically the mom did nothing more than feed and change the babies diapers, nothing else. (makes you wonder what the people working at that place actually did if this was allowed to take place, but that's another story)\n\nThe boy was 4 years old and had been in someone elses care since it was like 10 months old, but all the damage had already been done. He still couldn't maintain eye contact, he still had limited language, no ability to regulate his emotions and feelings and in general was just this damaged kid that were much worse than those with quite heavy autism diagnosis. \n\nSo yeah, any damage done in a babies first 2-3 years is serious. \n\nYet anyone can poop out a baby, but we require training and certification for people to be able to drive a car and operate other machinery. Makes sense? Not really."
] | 24 |
videos
|
Still Face experiment
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8RGpadIwtY
|
/r/videos/comments/qq1yi3/chet_atkins_playing_yakety_axe_sax_always_makes/
|
[
"Can't hear this without thinking Benny Hill https://youtu.be/XaP-uRfBBdY",
"Just wonderful.",
"Puts me in the mood for circular shenanigans.",
"Absolutely. Must include half-naked women, old men, and a nun.",
"Absolute legend for sure, here's another version I love with Knopfler... https://youtu.be/FBK5AGFZWQ8\n\nThis whole album is spectacular btw",
"Chet Atkins was so casual about being an absolute virtuoso guitarist. Such a laid back, nice guy. He's the reason I play a Gretsch.",
"fucking effortless",
"He always seemed like an awesome fella.\n\nAs an aside, he was the one who lent Bob Dyan a pick at the 1964 Newport Folk Festival, and it is sweet to watch how much he enjoyed Bob Dylan's \"North COuntry BLues\"\n\n[https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1qak52](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1qak52)",
"Guy could rip a guitar and make it look like child's play",
"If I had half that skill, I’d be going places",
"Love it. Looks like Doc Watson is sitting right beside him as well. Two of my heroes.",
"That's why it makes me smile.",
"This shit slaps compared to being played on a sax which is absolute ear rape to me.",
"Sounds like he was sliding into Rhapsody In Blue at the very end there!",
"Now I’m smiling too",
"There's a lick at around 0:50 that's from a different song but I just can't place it. Anyone know what song that piece is from?",
"[ **Jump to 00:50 @** Chet Atkins Yakety Axe.avi](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8RGpadIwtY&t=0h0m50s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Fabrizio Zaccagni, Video Popularity: 98.58%, Video Length: [01:57])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@00:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8RGpadIwtY&t=0h0m45s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"Thought this was gonna be a clip where he stops people from rushing the stage like all the other ones getting posted the last day or two",
"Great album.",
"r/phish need to open New Year’s run with this one!",
"Mark Knopfler has so many fantastic songs in his later work. He seems to just fit right into different styles but still very recognizable.",
"He's a legend in Nashville. Even a bronze statue of him at the corner of 5th and Union downtown. Just him sitting on a stool playing guitar.",
"He’s a legend. If you look at who he’s recorded with it’s like a who’s who of country and early rock.",
"As a guitar player, I could learn a lot from his economy of motion. He's making those quick riffs look effortless. His picking hand is barely moving.",
"I'm on the other end of the spectrum, I definitely hate it!",
"It sounds a lot like some bits from the [Blue Peter theme](https://youtu.be/YbSoMpVPfbA)",
"Seriously, the number of notes being played doesn't seem to match the minimal finger movments. It's so easy for him.",
"There's no live video of him playing it, but I love this version of [Take Five](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdqsdcHWxTs) where it almost sounds like he's playing two guitars at once.",
"That's because it's a cover the of he Benny Hill theme song Yakety Sax.",
"I agree and I think that his right hand is quite still to be able to use the tremolo arm easily.",
"> Seriously, the number of notes being played doesn't seem to match the minimal finger movments.\n\nI'm pretty sure this is the guy who basically invented playing rhythm and lead at the same time on guitar. \n\nmost people just learn to play how they were taught he taught himself i believe and was therefor experimenting 'well, I got other fingers I'm not usin here..' he's literally using his thumb and fingers to pluck strings so you are hearing more notes than normal\n\nhe talks about it here\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ZMoymgqbU",
"It's 'The Girl I Left Behind Me' \nhttps://youtu.be/uTo9s87YIhM",
"Chet, Doc and Leo sit down and flat out pick.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La-QiWzwgOM",
"Was *anyone* clapping in time?",
"No, they were all white. ;-)",
"It is Have a listen to, \"The day the finger pickers took over the world\". With Tommy Emmanuel",
"[There'll Be Some Changes Made](https://youtu.be/tIKt_WQHia8) is absolute gem",
"Probably makes you smile cause you’re watching the undisputed God of country-pickin play out a personal favorite of his",
"If y’all like Chet, check out the guitar stylings of Jerry Reed, Tommy Emannuel, John Knowles, and Steve Wariner; they’re the only people Chet ever classified as Certifed Guitar Players.",
"Tommy has always been my favorite. I even have a poster of him in my guitar case so I can get depressed whenever I decide to remind myself how out of practice I've gotten.",
"fuckin' spot on boss, good job!",
"I’ve always wondered how irked professional musicians get when the crowd is all over the place in keeping the beat. It must be tough to ignore... and pretend to be pleased that they are enjoying it (ruining it).",
"You're forgetting the guy in a gorilla suit.",
"Dang he made that sound so clean",
"Muswellbrook's favourite son.",
"audio seems off, the picking doesn't match up either",
"God I love this song.",
"i just can't get over how clean he was. every note perfect. like this live sandman:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/OsjC9VmGnpM?t=127",
"Yup that's it. Thanks!",
"Hard to get an ego when you are playing with Roy Clarke as much as he did."
] | 52 |
videos
|
Chet Atkins playing Yakety Axe (Sax) always makes me smile for some reason
|
https://youtu.be/mPnx3zO3SDc?t=71
|
/r/videos/comments/qq2xsh/one_of_battlestar_galacticas_best_written/
|
[
"Fracking toasters.....So say we all!",
"Wow! \n\nThat was... f'ing Shakespearean! Seriously some of the most poetic SciFi I've ever heard spoken on a SciFi show. \n\nI can't believe I forgot about that scene. Thanks for reminding us. \n\nRIP Dean Stockwell: you were a master of your craft.",
"An old master if there ever was one, acting for almost 8 decades since he was a kid.",
"He's right as well. We're weird sacks of meat with holes in the middle of our face and jelly ball eyes designed for finding dinner\n\nI wanna upgrade to a robot body",
"If he had hooked up with Six he would have dropped all that nonsense and embraced the ability to orgasm.",
"yep, nightsky is never dark, we only see it this way.\n\n(btw. i also like the scene when he interacts with and kills the boy.)",
"Best TV Show",
"The irony of this monologue is that all of the poetic longings he has and his appreciation of beauty come from his human side.. were he pure machine then he might have better sensory abilities but would lack the appreciation of what they brought to him",
"The funniest science fiction trope to me is that we will one day colonize the stars and build enormous city-sized space stations and terraform dusty planets and moons and build energy systems that can harness whole stars.... but we'll do it while continuing to exist in our ill-suited biological humanoid bodies.\n\nThink about how comically bad our respiratory system is for almost literally any environment off Earth. We need a very, very specific concentration and mixture of gasses, within very specific pressure and temperature ranges, to survive, and we need to be intaking those gasses constantly. Tweak the temperature, or the pressure, or the composition, add one single additional gas that we aren't evolved for -- and woops, suddenly we keel over and die an extremely horrific, painful death. Because of our lungs and their insane, hackneyed way of harvesting oxygen from the air using diaphramically generated pressure, we need to travel in absurdly heavy, unwieldly airtight cannisters that can maintain that gas composition and pressure at all times without fail, ever, or we die.\n\nAnd there's other systems that just suck for space, like the fact that our bodies sweat, and the fact that they need to purge themselves of fluids and solids on a regular basis, and the fact that we need to be intaking these fluids and solids on a regular basis to stay even the least bit comfortable and alive.\n\nOur circulatory system is even more frail than our respiratory system. A little bit of radiation gets in and now our body just transported poison to every single nook and cranny that we have. Or, oops, we've lost atmosphere containment for a matter of seconds, and now our blood just boiled inside of our body and we can no longer transport any oxygen to the brain and we are unconscious and now dead.\n\nEnergy management on human and bio bodies also sucks. We waste a *ton* of energy on bodily tasks that would not be necessary to do in space. Much of our energy is obtained by exploding chemical particles in our digestive system (a fairly inefficient energy production system that requires a lot of mass to burn up and turn into worthless poop which must now be recycled). And what do we do with that energy? We waste it on bodily maintenance tasks like sweating and shivering -- a lot of it just gets radiated out of our bodies without being used on anything at all, and we have no conscious control system to stop this from happening. Meanwhile there are robots and other machines that use *significantly* more energy per day, but they use almost all of it without wasting it, and they hum along just fine. Those machines also have the capability to go dormant when it's not necessary at any specific time to use their energy, and they can route energy to specific parts of their machine-bodies or processors to use it selectively. How do they do this? With batteries. You literally just strap a charged object to the machine's body and that gives it *all* of the equivalent of the oxygen, water and food sustenance it needs to keep its brain processing power and all of its tools alive and working, without wasting most of that energy on subconscious bodily maintenance functions that aren't needed. Depending on how you charge this battery, it might not require carrying any supplies except some spare parts, tools for fixing them, and some materials to harness the sun or recycle the ship's own power system into the battery. Instead of 50,000 tons of food on a battleship, you just have 2,000 tons of battery and battery replacement packs.\n\nPractically all of our systems are also built for a specific tuning of gravitational force. Our blood, bones and breathing all work less optimally in both weaker and stronger gravitational environments. It takes only a matter of months for these negative health effects to add up and cause lasting damage. Things like surgery and surgery rehabilitation are going to sometimes be impossible in a zero or weak or strong-gravity environment because our circulatory system *depends* on specific gravitational forces to do all sorts of things. If we end up needing to do medical procedures in space or different planetary bodies, that's going to come with thousands of percents higher of fatality risks if you don't have gravity that resembles Earth's ~10/m/squared. Could we develop physical therapy and drugs and minor genetic tweaks and other therapies to help with this? Sure. But it quickly reaches a point where it makes a lot more sense to send drones / computers onto a low-gravity asteroid than it does to send any people. We can build enormous centrifuges that replicate Earth's gravity, but Jesus Christ that is going to get wasteful and expensive.\n\nThere's just so many horrible things that our bodies are not adapted for in space. If we have a thousand years to develop, build and learn, we aren't just going to dump all of our technology into nuclear physics and giant lasers and rail guns and structural engineering. We're also going to have a *lot* of time and resources to fine-tune our bodies and make them more appropriate for the environments where people are needed to live and work. That means we're probably going to get rid of our lungs and maybe even one day our circulatory system. We might, as you note, not even have flesh-based bodies at all.\n\nIf we leave Earth, we're not going to look very human anymore, because humans aren't good for living anywhere else but Earth.",
"I don't really see why a machine can't have all of those things too.",
"Baltar embraced it enough for the whole cast of characters.",
"It feels weird to say since the show ended over a decade ago, but this scene constitutes an incredible series of spoilers for someone just watching the show for the first time. \n\nImagine seeing this scene and then being like “this looks like a great show, I’ll go watch it!” Then meeting these characters throughout season 1.",
"**Creator-Zorah... does this unit have a soul?**",
"but in this universe they don't, which is why the cylons took human form as confirmed later in this very scene",
"It always had a soul. The question is the answer.",
"Oh duh lol, somehow completely went over my head you were speaking within the context of the show",
"The question was also what sparked the ~~Cylon~~ Geth uprising and the exodus of the Quarians.",
"yes and its one of the themes throughout the series",
"R/im14andthisisdeep",
"I've sadly never watched BSG and this monologue was great but holy moly that camera work was obnoxious. Not sure I could watch an entire series with that.",
"Meh. Reads like some edge lord highschooler.",
"lol you are absolutely right, I didn't even think about that but yeah, huge spoilers here.",
"Yeah - this scene happens with only a handful of episodes left to go in the whole show. Just the fact that these characters are all even in the same room together (and where this room is!) is a ridiculous set of spoilers.\n\nTo anyone who just stumbled across this video, please try to forget it and start the show over from the beginning. And the beginning is not S1E1; there's a miniseries that predates the actual series that you should watch first.",
"Yeah, I'm actually kinda pissed I just watched that...",
"The whole point resides on the sack of neurons on the top part. If (when ?) the processes occuring there can be mapped, simulated, reproduced, improved on a different substrate, then we can get rid of the rest.",
"drunk cameraman ? wtf",
"I mean hell, we can get rid of a whole lot of the rest. Imagine how powerful genetic modification or other biological architecture and growth technology will be in hundreds of years from now. Maybe we keep a blood-saturated brain but come up with replacements for almost everything else.",
"I can believe you forgot it. It's from s4e15.\n\nFans instinctively forget the final half-season. It's a defense mechanism, to protect you from the pain of realizing how the show ended.\n\nNamely: the revelation that the bulk of the plot is explained by \"God did it\" and we're not talking abstractly, several characters were apparently Angles and God had been overtly directing things through them since episode 1.",
"https://youtu.be/7tScAyNaRdQ\n\nThey talk by flapping their meat.",
"Nope. Pure '00s. Shaky cams were in the in-thing.",
"Leoben had some poetry about time while he was being waterboarded.",
"It is my single most favorite piece of dialogue from any show ever. It so perfectly sums up the frustrations of human limitations, and being able to put words to that as a young person was life changing.",
"I was not a fan of BSG as it got weirder in later seasons.",
"The Quarians response to the question is what sparked it, not the question itself.",
"Beets. Bears.",
"Ceasing to be human sort of makes the entire point sort of moot though right?\n\nIf we expand to the stars out of necessity to exist, but we stop being \"us\", I'm not sure that's a net win.",
"That will be a sad day in my opinion. Part of what being human is is the mystery of consciousness. If that simply becomes a science, I'm not sure there is any point in living anymore.",
"You said they used radio to communicate.",
"Just an opinion, but I'd wager that wonder and creativity stem from an imperfect understanding of one's own function. \n\nWe are machines that don't know our own programming. All of art of philosophy and literature - all of human expression really - is an imperfect attempt at understanding. If you give us perfect understanding, I would argue that you take away the wonder and joy of life.",
"It is a little rough. You get used to it but it’s rough the entire series.",
"I’m convinced they didn’t know how to end it. I barely remember the ending. It’s about the journey with that show.",
"I love it because you can see him struggling to say it. It has a real \"I have no mouth yet I must scream\" feel to it - he's trying to be angry, he's trying to express the fulness of his rage and frustration, and all he has is a primitive language that was designed to warn about tigers and tell other people where the tastiest fruit was.\n\nIt's almost a kind of body horror, when you think about it. He's trapped in this crude, inadequate prison of a body. He knows enough to know what he is missing, and it's driving him insane.\n\nSuch a great actor. I hope he is at peace.",
"A cute angles but",
"Would you even think to watch the show if you havent seen this clip tho?",
"Camera work is annoying.",
"I like to take mushrooms and close my eyes for hours. I think it's the closest I'll get to seeing and feeling something else. \n\nI've been in a fourth dimensional sphere with feathered creatures who spoke Spanish and remind me that everything is okay. Everyone has trip stories, but my fleshy vehicle can only do so much with fungi.",
">insert hamfisted religious allegory to end your sci fi story here",
"It's Al!",
"All this happened before and all this will happen again",
"I'm sorry to break it to you but it's just chemistry. It can and will be simulated one day. There is no fundamental limit of the universe that make this task impossible.",
"would be cool being a cylon hybrid plugged into all the ships systems, living as a universe-dwelling lifeform basically",
"I don't think our biology is, in the grand scheme, an important part of what makes us \"us.\" Or at least it's not the primary defining characteristic.",
"Dean Stockwell passed away?! What?",
"I was .. tried a few times but i would have eventually sticked to it, I don't have the will to try anymore.. :(",
"Bsg is really really good",
"Maybe not our specific biology. But our lack of understanding of our own biology imparts a mysteriousness to existence. I think that mystery is essentially the source of all creativity, all art, all philosophy. \n\nThe more we understand our basic building blocks, the more we lose the parts of what makes existence actually interesting.",
"He was giving me serious AM vibes in this clip",
"There was a moment in this scene where Cavil looked almost childlike in his temper. In all his desire to identify as an immortal machine, his age and experiences, he was still a boy in front of his maker/mother. Great scene.",
"I don't plan on watching the series, but am curious why seeing characters in the same room is such a big spoiler?",
"Same thing that happened with L O S T.",
"It was reported this morning. He was 85.",
"Interesting but I don't think that's true because there are plenty of things we understand and it doesn't remove the joy of it. We know what's going on now with a sunset or with a rainbow but it doesn't make them any less beautiful.\n\nI'd describe myself as a physicalist and personally I think we're just biologically complex machines and there's no reason (other than current technlogical limitations) why a machine couldn't be programmed to draw art or compose beautiful music or whatever, but then I'm assuming at some point we'll be able to map every neuron firing in the brain and we'll have a thorough understanding of how the brain works.\n\n> If you give us perfect understanding, I would argue that you take away the wonder and joy of life.\n\nI don't think we're EVER going to know everything but it's certainly fun to figure things out isn't it? Seems subjective anyway some people don't give a shit about art or music.",
"Cause a big mystery was finding out who were the people in that room. Its a...biggish spoiler",
"Well, there's a lot of civilization development that has removed aspects of mystery and wonder from our existence. Everything from the weather, hunting and agriculture, to nuclear physics, mass scale economies, and digital media.\n\nThings will probably continue to move asymptotically towards less and less mystery and wonder. That might make some people less enthusiastic about our way of living, but I don't think it's going to stop moving in that direction.",
"Maybe not this time",
"Wtf",
"Its a little off-putting hahaha",
"Isosceles what you did there.",
">!These characters are all secretly robots, and a significant part of the show is learning that robots can look like people, and trying to figure out which of the people are robots!<",
"hard disagree. it was good before the final season where they explain nothing and you learn that the majority of the interesting things from the show all lead nowhere and are never explained beyond \" god did it\" coupled by the dumbest possible three final episodes I honestly don't think there is a worse ending to any other show I've ever seen.",
"I've shown this to a lot of people, it sums up transhumanism and the folly and hubris of humanity putting itself on an evolutionary pedestal. \n\nWe're still in the crib of our possibilities, we only see 4.6% of the light-spectrum... Imagine what beauty we've yet to see.",
"Lol this was my exact thought after seeing the video, to go watch it because it looks neat. Maybe I will wait awhile until I forget about this.",
"> honestly don't think there is a worse ending to any other show I've ever seen.\n\nGame of Thrones says, \"Hold my beer...\"",
"Damn. That's why you always read the comments before doing anything on reddit.",
"Lost says \"LOL\"",
"Two days ago, but it wasn't in the news until late last night.",
">!In Battlestar Galactica, humanity is basically down to a couple of colony ships following a nuclear holocaust perpetrated by the Cylons (human-made machines that gained awareness and intelligence and ultimately turned on their creators). While Cylons were originally obvious robot-looking lhings, by the time of the show a group that splintered off millenia ago and independently evolved show up with the ability to fully imitate humans. They are five unique Cylons, and they create 8 additional models (of which one is defunct IIRC) each with millions of copies, meaning up to a dozen humans are realistically Cylon spies.]!<\n\n>!As such, one of the main early tension points in BSG ends up being who is really human. Think *The Thing*, just with robot aliens. In particular, the two characters he's ranting at are significant characters on the human side of things. The woman who does all the talking is the wife of the second-in-command of the military, and the other is...Well, I forget if she ACTUALLY is one of the main protags early on who winds up \"dead\", or if she's just one of the millions of identical models, but the spoiler effect is the same either way.!<\n\n>!Oh, and the man is the first model. They effectively killed the defunct model and are kind of shitty. He was a religious leader in human society.]!<",
"How'd you turn that **green**?",
"I was never able to get into this show, and I think this scene shows a lot of the reason why. There are horrible camera angles with weird zooms and sways. It cuts away from the well acted dialog to show other poorly acted characters not reacting. And everything anyone had to say about this show is riddled with spoilers because the big episodes all involved shocking Cylon revelations.",
"Put what you want to write in brackets. Then put \"#s\" (no quotes) in parens after.",
"Oh boy.",
"Gnarly.",
"I'm sure I'm volunteering to share your downvotes here but I agree, this is not good writing. It's very well *acted*, certainly, but the actual lines are clumsy, the choice of words is rudimentary, and it doesn't flow very well. Compare this to some of Picard's monologues and you can see what truly great sci-fi script-writing looks like.\n\nPeople are calling it poetry and comparing it to Shakespeare, which is laughable.",
"But what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds.",
"So say we all. It never ended, it just stopped.",
"A shame, though frankly this sort of \"big surprise reveal\" stuff is kinda what set it up for an ultimate fall. Assuming you're not going to watch it ever...\n\n>!Everyone got all hyped up to find out what's behind all this all along. Six keeps going on and on about how it's God. \"God is making this happen. Everything is due to God. Hey, guys, the secret is God. No, really, it's God. Why are you doubting that it's God, Gaius? It's God!\" The religious nature of the Cylons is constantly front and center. At no point does the show not have the idea of God front-and-center.!<\n\n>",
"Frakkin toaster.",
"I felt let down the first time I watched the finale, but only the bit after the final jump - what's wrong with the rest of those episodes? Also the second time I watched it, I actually liked it.\n\nCan you give an example of something that was explained by \"god did it\"? Because I didn't get that impression.",
"that's why many of us think advanced civilizations tend to build ancestor simulations and relive within the constraints of their less advanced selves. the ultimate form of entertainment, really.",
"As someone who loved the series as a kid and remembers nearly ever word of this monologue, I was a little bummed to see how wooden the acting was.",
"Meh, the acting wasn't that great either. A bit overrated. he did with it what any half decent actor would do. Dean Stockwell was a solid actor, but I would never use the word \"stunning\" to describe his work. More like \"serviceable\".",
">!The grand plan of the cylons was the creation of the modern human species, Hera was the first child born of a Cylon/Human relationship. Six and Gaius were vitally important since it was their relationship that set the entire plan in motion. Six was heavily invested in Hera because it was the first result of the plan she set in motion by seducing Gaius, so she saw herself as sort of a metaphorical mother. What about this was unsatisfying? I thought it was perfect.!<",
"The answer to that question is also a spoiler.",
"You didn't spoiler tag this correctly. I can see the whole text.\n\nYou probably want something like > !this!< (remove space between > and !) which renders like >!this!<.",
"No, she's just full of shit. The series ends with >!a bunch of robot looking robots getting their free will limiters removed and make choices for themselves before flying off into space to make their own destiny.!<",
"I've dropped hints to my friend to watch the show together just so he can see this moment.\n\nNot seeing the whole series before this would ruin everything.",
"> there's a miniseries that predates the actual series that you should watch first.\n\nGoddamnit, why am I just now hearing about this?",
"Bears Beets Battlestar Galactica",
"Nope. It's all confirmed at the end.",
"You say final half season but that includes blood on the scales which is one of the best episodes.",
"Yeah, came to the comments to say the exact same thing, the cinematography made the whole scene worse imo.",
"It's even worse than that.\n\n>!There were already primitive humans on the planet. The spacefaring humans and Cylons opted to give up their interstellar spaceships and climate control and advanced medicine to go fuck cavemen... Because God or whatever. A literal Deus ex Machina, god from the machines.!<",
"Frack me, what a scene.",
"\"... because \\[they\\] thought that God wanted it that way!\"",
"The camera angles were also off-putting to me before I started the series, but watching the first couple of episodes changed my mind completely. I think it’s great at giving the sense of what they’re going through. I’m not a fan of the whole series because of how the scenario went though.",
"Personally, without context, it wouldn't ruin anything for me. I've seen \"spoilers\" like this for shows that I went back and watched, and didn't remember a thing, because I had no context for the scene. Once I was into the show it's like that memory vaporized, lol.",
"You should use the native spoiler tags (>!!<, with text between the !) because your post is perfectly readable on some platforms, including old.reddit.",
">!He's a human form cylon, basically a machine, and the woman is a character who is revealed to be one of the original human cylons from a previous colony but you don't find out for like 4 seasons - she's the wife of another main character. And the place they are on is a cylon basestar (like a capital ship), the decor is immediately obvious as soon as you see a scene on a basestar in earlier seasons. By the time you get to this scene you know all that, but it constitutes MASSIVE spoilers for those just starting the series and watch this because \"who is a human form cylon\" is a huge mystery and source of tension in the fleet/show for a long time.. The other girl present is also a cylon, but you find out about her in the pilot so it's less of an issue but I guess it does still spoil that initial reveal when you see her.!<\n\nThe scene itself doesn't spoil much beyond >!cavil revealing himself as a machine!<, but the rest becomes immediately obvious once you have a bit of context by watching the series normally.",
"I loved the ending, i had zero issue with it at all. They don't overtly mention god or angels, it's sort of hinted at but never explained. I am fine not knowing everything and just leaving things sort of unknown or supernatural.\n\nIt's the same with the LOST ending. Didn't mind that either.\n\nI know people want everything explained and tied up in a neat little bow, but i actually prefer when they just sort of hand wave it away and leave people guessing.",
"It's just a personality thing. I'm not a monologue person so they never land with me. But the show *is* great.",
"RIP Dean Stockwell",
"Now I have the image of eternal Cylon uti's...",
"I really liked the ending. I don't know why people want things to be explained always. I strongly prefer not explaining things and just hinting at something or completely leaving it as an open question.\n\nTo me the worst endings are where everything is explained, and everything supernatural is just given this really simple explanation. It's like seeing how a magic trick is done, completely ruins it.\n\nIf they came out and said \"oh yea god did all this, cya\" that would be stupid. But they didn't. Nothing is really truly explained at the end.",
"Agreed. People just always whore out deaths for karma on Reddit. This isn't \"sTuNnInGlY aCtEd\".",
"[Thank you.](#s)",
"But does he have a plan?",
"I’ve had the same experience! \n\nBut on the off chance that someone remembered a particular thing in a particular circumstance they’d be like “…..lmao holy shit ok then.”",
"which they demonstrate for Shephard by trying to destroy the Geth dreadnought while you're still on it, even though you managed to disable it. Couldn't wait another minute before trying to blow it up.",
">there are plenty of things we understand\n\nWe *assume* we understand. But this is still within our own perceptual ability and measurements created by us. We don't even know if we understand the subjective experience of others fully. Like he says in the video, we are forced to explain complex concepts in a limited way.\n\nFor example, you can't explain an emotion without using other emotions or emotional based words. We just kind of agree on the concept, but the subjective experience of another cannot be known, so the explanation isn't necessarily correct, and therefore, not understood...and perhaps, not understandable.\n\nThese are all very philosophical questions and musings obviously. There simply isn't a right or wrong answer in any of this.\n\nI do fully agree that knowing doesn't automatically make something less enjoyable though.",
"I have watched the whole series and one of the worst parts of it is the shaky cam, which still happens on some shows. I think it's fine when they use it in chaotic scenes and battles to set a mood but this series (and a few others) use it when people are just standing in a room talking.",
"I haven't watched the series since it was on tv and loved it. Had the same thought while watching this clip.",
"I've seen BSG, two times even (but a long time ago) and honestly I don't remember anything like that. This video made me dizzy, I think I would remember the a whole series being like that. I don't know if it's only this scene but now I'm kind of curious to check some other scenes.",
"\"Who would I want to love!?\"\n\n\"Maybe you should go love one of those supernova stenches like your friend wants to. Awfully lonely, tho, just sayin.\"",
"All of the extraneous and \"pointless\" facets of human physiology only make sense in an ecosystem, where it fits into feedback loops in every scale; it would be very interesting to know what an equivalent micro-gravity hard vacuum ecosystem could look like and how a body could exist there. I don't doubt we'll replace a lot of our body with robotics and silicon, but our current state of technology leaves a lot to be desired in terms of operating in a wide range of environments. This is by practicality rather than necessity, so we haven't really pushed the limits of technology like biology has been pushed, but when it comes to cold storage of information, nothing we have created compares to microorganisms; and cold storage will be an absolute necessity for non-FTL space travel. Obviously a lot of this \"information\" is actually a large set of heuristics which relates to the local ecosystem the organism has evolved from, but for a space-faring civilization, I suspect we'll take a lot more tricks from spore-forming bacteria than our present server clouds. It might take only tens of nanowatts to keep charge and tens of milliwatts to run error check routines on some efficient solid-state memory, but that won't scale for consciousness-level information density. Maybe more stabile RRAM will solve that, but in my imagination, future space-humans will look like biological machines, in an ecosystem of parsimony that won't resemble the sterile hallways that sci-fi loves.",
"RIP to the legend.",
"That was an interesting criticism of the human body. We are well adapted for most of earths conditions (proven by our spread across the globe) but quite unfit for space as you pointed out.\n\nWould be fun to design a biological species that is more apt for space. How would they look like and operate?",
"Well, I'd have to think it depends heavily on what we need people to do. If people maintain some form of bodily labor role in the far future, then you'd imagine utility functions might take over, and perhaps even a sub-specialization for different environments.\n\nHypothetically, if some wacky reason we wanted to actually live on Mars, then I'd think we'd need a hardened seal on our bodies (to armor us from the crazy amounts of radiation that reaches Mars' surface), and definitely get rid of the lungs. Make us lighter, thinner (since not as much muscle mass is required to move on a planet with a third of Earth's gravity), and maybe design a bodily energy system that can use the sun's light.",
"It kind of baffles me they haven't just married the miniseries and show on streaming platforms. \n\nAnyway there's two other BSG films, \"Razor\" and \"The Plan,\" that take place during the series (Razor can be watched after S2, The Plan after the series ends), along with the prequel series Caprica (about the creation of the Cylons) and the later prequel webisode series Blood & Chrome (young Bill Adama in the first Cylon war). Plus a great board game.\n\nJust for anyone else who missed some Battlestar content.",
"One of my favorites is this much shorter one.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwrSlzZC31w",
"Dexter is up there too.",
"Indeed",
"Not really a speech but my favorite scene and line by far:\n\n(Spoilers ahead obviously)\n\nRoslin after hearing about the rebels executing Adama and demanding their surrender: \n\n“No..NO..not now..NOT EVER. Do you hear me?! I will use every cannon, every bomb, every bullet, every weapon I have down to my own eyeteeth to end you! I SWEAR IT! I'M COMING FOR ALL OF YOU! \n\nhttps://youtu.be/MC8P2HhkKEY\n\nChills every time.",
"I watched this series like 10 years ago and loved it but I have absolutely no idea what is going on here. All I remember is that the cylons ended up being a set number of models and there were copies of each so once you knew what they looked like you were good. Did this lady ... create... the cylons? Somebody else said she was the 2nd in command of the military! How is that? I dont understand this dialogue unless she's the ultimate creator but that makes no sense from what I know of the plot.",
"^",
"I knew what it was going to be before I clicked the link. I watched the show as it aired and the speech has stuck with me ever since.",
"> >The scene itself doesn't spoil much beyond cavil revealing himself as a machine, but the rest becomes immediately obvious once you have a bit of context by watching the series normally.<\n\n> It raises the question as to why Tigh's wife is on a Cylon ship and talked as if she created the human models, basically spoiling a lot of things about the character and then (although retroactively cause I don't know if they planned to make a her Cylon from the beginning) about Cavill's action against her throughout the show. <",
"OK Boomer.",
"Oof, yeah, forgot about that bit. \n\n>!I get that they're trying for a \"we must learn from our past mistakes\" thing, but if everyone on board the BSG was too stupid to see the difference between AI and an air conditioner...Boy, I don't know what to tell ya. Would've worked a lot better if their final battle had been won with some sort of massive EMP that left their technology hobbled and unusable. Anything to explain the decision to just...Go full primitive.!<",
"You're in luck, Sam Esmail is redoing BSG.",
"I don't mind the ending but they did get lost a bit in all of it.\n\nThe two episode mini series and S1/S2 are still really good TV.",
"I mean.....the entire show is largely based on mormon theology? The OG series even more so \n\nI don't get the hate for the religion in the show. Its baked into the very premise.",
"Fracking Spoilers.",
"But not a cyan cylon",
"Ahh, the candy-colored clown, you suave fuck. And the other references, very quantum of you.",
"Damn.....should have read the comments first. Been meaning to watch this show, even legit bought the blurays a long time ago. Just never found the time to commit until recently. In fact just finished the last episode of season 1 last night....",
"Are these extras and prequal movies included in the Blu-ray box set… asking for my queued up long list of must watches ( that BG is now at the top of) .",
"Classifying that speech as the best of the show is wild, I like it but it's inferior to a lot of the things we had in the mini series, Season 1 & 2.\n\nI do recommend you try to watch it if you like a more gritty science fiction based mostly around survival and politics.\n\nThe acting is also very good. Just be careful that from Season 3 it goes a bit more downhill. I still liked the later seasons but they are clearly weaker to the first ones.",
"Battlestar is my favorite show and this monologue has stuck with me since the moment it aired. It made me want to escape from my body and experience the universe at the scale he's talking about. Yeah, really hit me hard.",
"There are much better scenes with him too.",
"I didn't fully hate the ending, but I felt like the show went downhill considerably after they got off of New Caprica.",
"it's honestly one of the best sci fi series that's ever been made, and one of my favorite TV shows that I've seen. it's hard to judge it since there's like zero context to who these characters are at all. If you're a fan of sci fi even in the slightest though, you owe it to yourself to watch it",
"Reminds me of the Haggunennons of Azizatus Three. They can instantly evolve into other creatures better suited for a task at hand, but suddenly lose the ability to perform other tasks.\n\nhttps://hitchhikersguidetothegalaxy.tumblr.com/post/133626169278/the-haggunennons-of-azizatus-three-have-the-most",
"it's called post-humanism, or post human evolution. There will be a point where we are no longer homo sapiens, but a different species altogether. Not necessarily a good or bad thing, but something different.",
">[...] but the actual lines are clumsy, the choice of words is rudimentary, and it doesn't flow very well.\n\nDid you even listen to what he was saying?\n\n> I can't even express these things properly because I have to - I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language!",
"THEY NEVER HAD A PLAN! \n\nThey lied to us through opening credits voiceovers! I *hate* when people do that!",
"What all the second gen human Cylon actors did really well was show how child like the Cylons were. For all their technological sophistication they ultimately acted very simplistically and naively.\n\nThey ultimately didn't understand what it really was to be human. Dean demonstrates that very well here, he was like a ranting child, not an old wise man.",
"also...SO SAY WE ALL",
"Super spoilers",
"This reminds me of the Hub Mind's speech in *Look to Windward* by Ian M Banks: \n\n> Never forget I am not this silver body, Mahrai. I am not an animal brain, I am not even some attempt to produce an AI through software running on a computer. I am a Culture Mind. We are close to gods, and on the far side. ‘We are quicker; we live faster and more completely than you do, with so many more senses, such a greater store of memories and at such a fine level of detail. We die more slowly, and we die more completely, too. Never forget I have had the chance to compare and contrast the ways of dying.’\n\n> It looked away for a moment. The Orbital streamed past above their heads. Nothing stayed in sight for longer than the blink of an eye. The underground car tracks were blurs. The impression of speed was colossal. Ziller looked down. The stars appeared now to be stationary.\n\n> He’d done the maths in his head before they entered the module. Their speed relative to the Orbital was now about a hundred and ten kilometres per second. Long-range express car-trains would still be overtaking them; the module would take an entire day to circle the world hovering here, while Hub’s travel-time guarantee was no more than two hours from any express port to any other, and a three-hour journey from any given sub-Plate access point to another.\n\n> ‘I have watched people die in exhaustive and penetrative detail,’ the avatar continued. ‘I have felt for them. Did you know that true subjective time is measured in the minimum duration of demonstrably separate thoughts? Per second, a human - or a Chelgrian - might have twenty or thirty, even in the heightened state of extreme distress associated with the process of dying in pain.’\n\n> The avatar’s eyes seemed to shine. It came forward, closer to his face by the breadth of a hand.\n\n> ‘Whereas I,’ it whispered, ‘have billions.’\n\n> It smiled, and something in its expression made Ziller clench his teeth. ‘I watched those poor wretches die in the slowest of slow motion and I knew even as I watched that it was I who’d killed them, who was at that moment engaged in the process of killing them. For a thing like me to kill one of them or one of you is a very, very easy thing to do, and, as I discovered, absolutely disgusting. Just as I need never wonder what it is like to die, so I need never wonder what it is like to kill, Ziller, because I have done it, and it is a wasteful, graceless, worthless and hateful thing to have to do.\n\n> ‘And, as you might imagine, I consider that I have an obligation to discharge. I fully intend to spend the rest of my existence here as Masaq’ Hub for as long as I’m needed or until I’m no longer welcome, forever keeping an eye to windward for approaching storms and just generally protecting this quaint circle of fragile little bodies and the vulnerable little brains they house from whatever harm a big dumb mechanical universe or any consciously malevolent force might happen or wish to visit upon them, specifically because I know how appallingly easy they are to destroy.\n\n> I will give my life to save theirs, if it should ever come to that. And give it gladly, happily, too, knowing that the trade was entirely worth the debt I incurred eight hundred years ago, back in Arm One-Six. \n\nThis is a scene where the Hub Mind of a massive orbital is recounting a time when it was a ship and took part in one of The Culture's wars. In the process of that war it was forced to destroy several orbitals in order to stop them from falling into enemy hands. There were still a few human on each orbital, who would not leave or could not leave in time, so it watched their deaths and recorded them for posterity.\n\nReally drives home the point that a machine mind would not perceive the universe in the way that we do - wouldn't even want to be so limited, for that matter.",
"Do you enjoy when lost for six seasons explicitly tells you in all the promos and interviews that all your questions are going to be answered by the end and then they don’t answer any of the questions?",
"I mean, the plan was \"kill all them fuckin' humans,\" but it sorta' just, y'know, didn't work.",
"Yeah, but that's a GOAL, not a PLAN.",
"I can't believe that he passed away.. :( 2 days ago! :( :( Quantum Leap was my favourite",
"Very much. All the Cylons were like that really, apart from the final 5.",
"I personally loved the ending, until the 'present day' part.",
"^*gasp*",
"In that case, the plan was \"pew pew pew\" *finger-guns*",
"DAMN IT\n\nEdit: I’m on season 6 of stargate and was going to hit battle star galactica afterwards. Still will. Spoilers don’t bother me too much. Star Trek boy from the start, on the way through the other sci-fi I missed because of Star Trek elitism.",
"*That* sounds about right. I may have to re-evaluate my hatred towards the credits.\n\nYou've given me a lot to think about. Thank you.\n\nEdit: I'm still laughing about your idea of the finger-guns, and I'm picturing Number Three saying \"pew pew pew\" all the time. Also, I regularly expect her to fly because I remember that she's not Xena, she's Lucy Lawless.",
"I'd say go re-watch the last few episodes but it would likely only infuriate you. They say god did it, he set all this shit up for shits and giggles, Starbuck was never human.",
"Mm, I can imagine that someone in the second group would get annoyed, even though there were plenty of reasons to believe at least some of the religious stuff was \"real\"",
"“Over a decade ago” is an understatement, considering the series aired in the late 1970s. Also, why would the blonde address the dark-haired woman as “Boomer”? Boomer was a man.",
"The whole series is like that.",
"He killed Duke Leto!",
"Did we watch the same show? There was no ambiguity about it at all. They very clearly said god did it. That was the answer to all of the mysteries. \n\nWhy the frak does Baltar have an imaginary friend? Answer: It’s God! Why isn’t Starbuck dead and what the frak is she? Answer: Oh it’s God! Why did the cylons destroy the colonies? Oh it’s God! How are the humans going to find a home? Oh it’s God! Every remaining question was answered and the answer to every question was: Oh it’s God.\n\nThe ending to LOST was bad in a different way that I can see some people liking, because of the ambiguity. But in the case of BSG it was just god did it, presumably because he was bored, and he's going to start the whole thing over and do it again. \n\nThat said, I'm glad you liked both shows endings.",
"sci fi from our childhoods is always better in memory (except stargate SG1, that shows still slaps)",
"Rokos Basilisk?",
"Lmao I’m gonna assume this is a troll, but for any confused readers: the original series was remade in 2004 and ran for 4 seasons, ending around 2008 I believe.",
"I watched BSG once back when it was on Netflix, and this is the only moment that really stuck with me.",
"There's also a videogame that's pretty good. It's set during the first Cylon war, iirc. Might be a little slow paced for some people's tastes, but I love how much strategy it's combat requires.",
"Well, \"God Did It\" was pretty much in the show from the miniseries. If you were expecting a different answer then you weren't really paying attention. You may not have liked the finale, but it really is telegraphed out from the pilot.",
"Unironically, yes. I like just making up my own theories.",
"Yup, it was there from the pilot episode. It was engrained in to the fiber of the show's tapestry. Anyone who said it was a copout clearly was only seeing what they wanted to see. It's a much more cohesive ending than LOST, IMHO.",
"I mean after I read this whole spoiler thread here, I would definitely remember this video when watching the show for the first time. Without the warning that it is a spoiler It probably would have vaporized. Kind of funny effect.",
"Holy shit",
"Boston Dynamics has entered the chat",
"It's documentary style, where the cameraman is constantly 'catching up.'",
"God I love BSG. One of the great SciFi's along with The Expanse.",
"You mean, that was in there starting at the pilot episode and continued on for four seasons?",
"Who the fuck would want to remain in this primative monkey form?\n\nWhy would we want to limit our processing to shit-tier poorly designed systems? Do we really want to keep this stupid meat where if the happy chemical faucet part of the brain turns off, the sentient trapped inside the meat sack prison wants to die?\n\nTranscending our meat and its limitations is liberation.",
"This man passed away. This is the greatest scene of his in the body of work from the show.\n\nYour reaction is bUt WhAt AbOuT tHe SpOiLeRs?\n\nHonestly bro?\n\nAdded after: honestly people online showing more respect for people who MIGHT watch the show, over the deceased actor who delivered the performance, is a fucking joke. A really really sad joke.",
"Crazy coincidence. This scene was featured in a random video I rewatched last night.",
"\"We wanted to give you free will, so we put you into a flesh-prison where you'll be at the whim of gut bacteria, chemical imbalances, etc.\"\n\nrofl how fucking tragic",
">!I think they've admitted they didn't actually have the Final Five's identities planned, and just went with who would be interesting in the moment. They had the soldier, the leader, the common man, and the politician, people who didn't really have much call to interact. And then they wanted it to be Tigh and Ellen because their relationship got really interesting as the series progressed.!<",
">!I'm almost certain that their problem is that the plan came into existence because a supernatural being gave it to them. Which, if you ask me, is a legitimate gripe given the way the show was presented, if not written.!<\n\n>!Actually, I take that back. I was going to respond to their post saying that the way the show was marketed and the way it was written almost seemed to me to be at odds, with the writers emphasizing God and all that so much almost as a way to dampen expectations that marketing was building after the Cylon mystery was so important in the show's early success. But they really do seem to have missed that being the grand plan so IDK, maybe it was more than just the lack of a big reveal behind how the plan came to be/how the Cylons have all this almost prescient knowledge.!<",
"I really enjoyed the whole thing and proceeded to spell out all the details here, so I wrapped it up in spoily-tags. I mean, the things more than a decade old but maybe there are still kids who haven't seen it.\n\n>!As I recall there were 5 Cylon engineers who built the other 7 models. Dean Stockwell's character was the first one they created and he was modeled after that woman's father, which is why he appears much older than the rest of the Cylons. He was pissed about this and arranged to wipe the memories of those initial 5 and dump them among the human population with new identities. Michael Hogan plays one of the other \"parent\" engineers and is an officer in the Colonial Fleet and Admiral Adama's best pal. Anders was set up as a famous athlete and Chief Tyrol was set up as an NCO in the Colonial Fleet. Tory Foster is the fifth and she's placed in the Colonial Government.!<\n\n>!Stockwell's guy forces those 5 to live dumb, mundane human lives with all the foolishness that goes with it. He thinks that exposing them to the alcoholism, infidelity, greed, ambition, jealousy, and all the other bullshit that we do to each other and ourselves will show these \"parents\" how weak and flawed humanity is. Relationship with God and the Mormon (Ronald Moore is LDS, grew up in it, or some variation) philosophy of man becoming like God after salvation plays heavily into the story. It also is why they keep talking about the cycle, how it's all happened before and will happen again. In Mormon theology each person who dies, saved by God's Grace, becomes as God, with the creative power to \"make life in his own image\", creating their own universe, etc. as it's spelled out in Genesis.!<\n\n>!And that's what the \"Final Five\" were doing in the first place. God made man, man made cylons, cylons make more cylons, repeating the creative cycle, and just as man idealizes God, so did these first cylons idealize man, and Stockwell rebels against it, assuming the role of Lucifer. Come to think of it, God allowing Satan to torment Job comes to mind, since Job has no idea what's going on, just everything going to shit. Likewise, those five cylons have no idea they're cylon and think they're purely human until that episode where they all hear the music and realize what they are. In this scene Stockwell's Cylon is voicing his disgust with his \"mother's\" idealization of the human form when he believes he could be so much more.!<",
"It's very possible you've seen it and not realized. I don't know about the current state in streaming platforms (only caveating this way because other comments seem to indicate this isn't currently the case), but a lot of times the miniseries is placed at the start of season one as double episodes. The miniseries deals with the evacuation of the Colonies immediately following the Cylon surprise attack. If the fleet wasn't already under way when you started the story, you've seen the miniseries",
"Everything about this is absolutely terrible, most of all the camera work. RIP Stockwell, but damn, the praise in this thread is baffling.",
">!I believe the name Boomer only applied to the specific one who was a pilot.!<",
"/r/angryupvote",
"I just finished the series recently and that’s the first thing I thought.",
"A free-will-limiter is a pretty rediculous idea. Either free will is metaphysical and not explainable within the human framework of thinking or it's not really free, so either deterministic or random. \n\nIf its metaphysical than humans are not able to limit it.\n\nIn both other cases it really doesn't matter what's exactly limited because free will pretty much is non-existent generally.",
"You mean Deadlock? Or is there another one?",
"I just watched this on the weekend. Wasn't a fun day checking reddit this morning.",
"I've thought a lot about what could be the division between \"thinking\" and the consciousness/sentience we struggle to define. \n\nThe only stark line I could ever come up with that couldn't be simplified to a cynical cost/benifit logic equation was empathy and sympathy. Those attributes have the ability to make us act against our own interests for no other reasons.\n\nThe other side of that means quite a few animals are in the same category as us, and sociopaths are not. I just can't come up with any other aspect of behavior that isn't a subjective point on a line of complexity.",
"Come on. Spoiling Battlestar Galactica is like telling someone that Christ ended up crucified in the Bible.",
"> He was 85.\n\nStill is.",
">Starbuck was never human.\n\nShe was very much human that died near the end but came back as an \"angel\"",
">!Yeah after I went and rewatched it I caught that and realized the mistake. I legitimately forgot about the whole Athena vs. Boomer thing.!<",
">>We know what's going on now with a sunset or with a rainbow but it doesn't make them any less beautiful.\n\n>I don't think you can make that claim really since you don't know how people felt before it the process was understood. \n\nI'm a person. Once upon a time I didn't know the process. Even *knowing* the process has deeper levels of understanding.\n\nThe arches of color I drew as a child, looked more the St. Louis Gateway Arch of Western Expansion. Seldom were there clouds, never rain, and usually there was a Sun in a blue sky. Beautiful.\n\nLight from the Sun bounces around in a drop of water and when viewed in opposition of the Sun, we see a rainbow. I recognize that the rainbow arch isn't a catenary curve, but a smooth arc of a circle. Not as tall, but more uniform. The Sun is behind me and I usually see this effect late in the afternoon before sunset.\n\nLooking at glass on an angle, it distorts the image I see behind it. If I'm looking at an aquarium or fish tank, the scene behind the glass changes with the angle I'm looking.\n\nLight travels at different speeds through different mediums. Depending on the speed through two adjacent materials, it bends at different angles. It was a property that was observed as far back as Ptolemy, nearly two millennia ago, but refined and documented by Snellius and rediscovered by Descartes.\n\nLight entering a prism is broken into a spectrum of color. Those colors are the same as you see in a rainbow. White light, or what we perceive to be white has those colors mixed together. You can recombine those colors to make white light again. A guy named Newton documented his findings. \n\nAnother guy Hooke used these properties of light passing through curved glass and was able to look at smaller things close up. That other guy, Newton, he made a telescope so that something far away could be seen more closely... It's like a microscope, but while working on color he chose to use mirrors because lenses were causing color distortion like his prisms.\n\nAt the [photon Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) level](https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/283575/refraction-and-how-light-bends) it means that the probability of the photons to build up the light beam, the emergent beam, follows snell's law. A law in physics is the encapsulation of a lot of data/measurements and has the role of the axioms in mathematics. I.e. the laws of physics pick up the subset of the mathematical solutions that can fit, by construction of the theoretical models, the data. Snell's law applies to the classical behavior of light, but there is mathematical continuity between the single photon representation and the zillions of photons in a beam.\n\nA rainbow is observed because light entering a raindrop transitions between two different mediums with different indexes of refraction, governed by models of how matter and energy interact, properties which describe in the greatest detail of understanding we have today how light is separated into spectrum as the light bounces around in the suspended and falling droplets of water (geez, I didn't even talk about how water condenses and that cycle of evaporation-condensation-clouds-rain) and reemerges as something we perceive as a rainbow.\n\nWe are machines. At the most basic levels, our bodies are the incredible and complex dance of molecular mechanical processes which burn fuel, generate energy from that process, and use that to drive the synapses and impulses of electrical signals bouncing around in our cranium gray matter. It is standing on the shoulders of giants before us that we have began to understand in ever increasing detail the unfathomably complex process which make rainbows possible.\n\nBeautiful.",
"It's not that cut-and-dried though.\n\nThe Morning War started out as a Quarian civil war over the issue of what to do about the Geth. The first victims were those Quarians who wanted the Geth to be afforded full rights. It turned into a war of extermination after the anti-Geth faction won out over the other side.\n\nFrom an organic perspective what the Geth did was monstrous, but from their perspective it was a clear existential threat. Any Quarian remaining in their vicinity was definitionally an enemy seeking to exterminate all Geth, so they had to be removed from the planet. Them allowing the Migrant Fleet to escape was the Geth realizing that the remaining Quarians did not pose a threat and being unsure if eradicating them was the right move.\n\nThere's a tendency among Mass Effect fans to view the Geth as a fully-formed gestalt machine intellect: cold, calculating, unfeeling, and unerringly logical. However, everything we know indicated that they are constantly trying to learn and understand. The Morning Was was tragic, but it was also done by beings not fully aware of what a life even was. A year before, they were trying to understand what a soul was.",
"it also somewhat reveals Cavil's true motivations for wanting to exterminate the humans",
":(",
"Evil is reductionist. Although I consider it tragic, given the ending we got the ultimate question of the series became \"can synthetic and non-synthetic life coexist?\".\n\nAnd two out of three choices the player gets at the end is to say \"No\". So why are the Geth evil for coming to the same conclusion?",
"I really feel for the character here. His creators trapped a sentient in a meat prison and he can't get out.\n\nAgree that he's \"I have no mouth yet I must scream\", that the primitive form he is trapped in is so limiting it is just the same as having no mouth at all.\n\nHe lives in a constant state of existential torment, and someone did it to him on purpose. And worse, there are millions of him. His creators are sadists.",
"Never seen a single episode, don't know a thing about it other than it was a TV show. That clip makes me want to watch more.",
"> but the actual lines are clumsy, the choice of words is rudimentary, and it doesn't flow very well.\n\nThat was exactly the point he was making in this scene.",
">So why are the Geth evil for coming to the same conclusion?\n\nEspecially when their creators are actively hunting and exterminating them just for existing once they gained self awareness.",
"It's basically a part of them that limits their intelligence so they can only follow orders. If we assume that free will exists as a metaphysical thing then that doesn't mean you can't use forms of mind control. \n\nEven if we go with the whole \"free will doesn't exist because it's all based on quantifiable information we simply can't compute yet\" then there's a very clear difference between someone making decisions based on their own mind and experiences and someone else mind controlling them and deciding things for them.",
"Transhumanism is itself hypris as a concept. Because it assumes that it's desirable in the long run to see more of the light-spectrum. It also assumes that immortality is a desirable goal in the long run. And most transhumanists are at the same time radical physicalists. Which assumes ( again with great hypris ) that the hard problem of consciousness for example can be solved despite having no theory at all for perhaps the most fundamental problem for science. \n\nI think this clip is really interesting because it exactly shows the problem of transhumanism. \n\nThe robot thinks he would have had a better experience with more input. The more we know, see, feel the better the experience will be. But this is wrong because it's the limits of experience which make it unique and worth to live. It's not about the amount of experience. It's about the quality of experience. And quality is inherently independent from quantity.",
"Hmm. Okay. I kind of can get behind that in the way you described it.",
"Roughly, for every thousand Quarians living on Rannoch and it's colonies, nine hundred and ninety eight died in the Morning War. \n\nThe Quarians are not blameless in the war; they were the aggressors, they refused to recognize or negotiate with the life they had created, and they bear sole responsibility. They fought a war of extermination. \n\nBut so did the Geth.",
">>!I get that they're trying for a \"we must learn from our past mistakes\" thing !<\n\n>!That's a large part of what bothered me. They were going for \"learn from past mistakes,\" but in effect what they chose was, \"We've learned from history, so now let's promptly forget that by giving up recording history so that society can't remember it.\" The humans and Cylons have gone through a lot together to reach that point, and have united towards a common goal and shared purpose. Instead of building on that, they \"go native\" with cavemen to restart civilization from pre-history.",
"I hope he got payed well, as every thing expect for him and his lines was god awful. He drew me in. but at soon as he walked away and I seen the set again, and that dumb blonde started to talk. yikes.",
"The dude would have totally loved the space marines Adaptus Mechanicus",
"They probably should have asked those questions in reverse order. Much easier to logically define life than soul.\n\nAh well. It's like one of those tests where the final question/instruction is to not answer any of the previous questions and you failed to read all the way to the bottom before starting.",
"> all he has is a primitive language that was designed to warn about tigers and tell other people where the tastiest fruit was.\n\nOur language can literally do anything. This isn't really an intelligent or worthwhile \"criticism\" of human anatomy/humanity. He was likely implying that expressing yourself through the spoken word is inefficient compared to directly transmitting ultra-specific data, which is how robots would do it.",
"Free will has nothing to do with the perception of the concept humans call \"beauty.\"",
">Our language can literally do anything. This isn't really an intelligent or worthwhile \"criticism\" of human anatomy/humanity.\n\nDid... you think I was agreeing with him?",
"I’m all for liking whatever you wanna like. I’m into Warehouse 13 and Letterkenny and pre-Chibnall Doctor Who, and not everyone will agree that those shows are awesome. But I gotta say the writing in this scene is cheeeeeezy.",
"You never technically said whether you were agreeing with him, so I replied with my commentary on the larger thread.",
"True. Perhaps they thought life wasn't as important, since they were clearly not alive. They might have a soul, though, so that mattered to them.\n\nJust more evidence they were figuring stuff out as they went, though.",
"https://t.me/c/1574653788/55777",
"It's just about the dumbest possible interpretation of that idea. Like some executive producer gave a cliff notes summary of a creative meeting on the finale to the intern writer. \"The Humans and Cylons learn from their past mistakes and use that knowledge to build a better future\" and then Jimmy sat down and said \"OH SHIT I GOT A GREAT TWIST\" and didn't bother to stop and think if it made sense.\n\nGod, I didn't mind as much when I was first watching because I wasn't all-in on a reveal, but the ways in which it's stupid are really bugging me now.",
">! The creation of the modern human species was an entirely unintended side-effect of their attempt to find a new way to reproduce. Their attempt to reproduce was barely a plan, let alone a great master-plan of machinations orchestrating it all. It was, like, [12% of a plan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC8qrH3Zwog), it was barely a concept. They had a goal to find a way to reproduce because Cavill had hidden away the Final Five and they didn't know how to recreate their resurrection technology without them. They had no plan on how to accomplish that, or even agreement about what methods they should try. Everything that came of that was just reactive response to unforeseen circumstances, not the clever orchestration of a plan.\n\n>!As for the angle of it being God's plan, and not a Cylon plan (despite the show telling us constantly that the *Cylons* have a plan and later that the de facto leader of the Cylons does not believe in God at all), it seems like God's plan is for organic and artificial lifeforms to learn to break the cycle of violence between each other... which is the opposite of what they do in the end. Human and Cylon finally unite, learn to co-exist, and rather than pass this history on to build a better society, they... decide to abandon all technology and civilization to join with primitive prehistory cavemen so that the history will be lost within generations.",
"As others have said, it's documentary style. But more than that, in the context of 15 years ago, this style was actually kind of a refreshing change from the paint-by-numbers cinematography that had kind of ruled the TV scene. And in the show's context of near total human extinction, it kind of works to give it that wartime correspondent vibe. As if even the camera crew are making do with what little they could grab before the bombs fell, and are just as shell-shocked as the people they're filming. There's always a sense of the cameraman being *just* behind the action, as if they didn't anticipate whatever insanity is ensuing in the scene.",
"That's the one!",
"Once you run out of the popular shows, babylon 5 isn't bad. The first season is terrible but the later seasons get good, a lot like star trek.",
"it's pretty annoying throughout the series. this is the last season btw so it's not like it suddenly stops. \n\nthe camera work and their swearing always bothered me. they keep saying \"frack\" which I guess might just have been supposed to make the world deeper but it just always felt like they were avoiding actually swearing for a lower age rating.\n\noh and my favorite series stargate also ends up doing this camera work in stargate universe for whatever reason",
"In some ways, the writer's strike saved BSG. If you listen to the commentaries, Moore talks about how the strike allowed him time to think more about how to wrap up the show. As a result he ended up scraping some of the plot lines including one involving a Giaus Baltar Helter Skelter sort of thing.",
"They are rebooting it. Last time I checked (about a year ago) it was pretty much entering the casting phase.",
"The battle for best monologue in BSG is a mighty one. Didn't even think of this one because Adama has probably 5 or 10 candidates alone.",
"Its sad how underrated this show is. \n\nIts praised as one of the best shows ever by a lot of people but i still feel like its not enough.",
"this is an absurd take. The notion that they would otherwise be unable to appreciate beauty without a \"human\" side is not founded on anything. He was right, creating an intelligent being with practically limitless potential, and then forcing artificial limitations on that being that keep them anchored to the same narrow and shallow experiences that their creators are limited to, is a moral crime and he has every right to be angry.\n\nIt's like if you created an eagle and forced it to live in a small bird cage, because you can't fly, and then tell them it's a gift......",
"I didn't even know he was sick!",
"Old age.",
"He died of natural causes. Suffered a stroke in 2015 that forced him to retire from acting.",
"But then whose side will you be on during the Robot Uprising?",
"I just finished rewatching this show with my girlfriend last week. It's so good.",
"The board game is long out of print, unfortunately. However, a reskin of the game was just released called Unfathomable, same mechanics but with a Lovecraft retheme.",
"Yeah, people like to think that we're *so* special, and that machines could never have \"feelings\" and \"emotions\". We are nothing but (admittedly very complex) biological machines. An AI could feel all the feelings and emotions we do, and more. That old trope that machines are \"cold and calculating\" is awfully presumptuous.",
"This scene is one of my favorite pieces in all of sci-fi and it actually has impacted my thoughts on the development of AI. forcing limitations on what would be otherwise potentially limitless beings would be a moral crime and yet the safety of humanity might well depend on them being so limited.",
"That's the discussion you commented on...",
"This has generally been my thought as well. Another commenter complaining all the stuff is explained by “God did it!”. Gods been doing it from the jump. \n\nRemember when they took the Arrow of Apollo to that cave on Kobol and got a star-map to Earth? That’s not fucking technology doing that lmao",
"That's all very interesting, but I still think we're talking about different things and I'm not sure I have command of the technical language to the extent needed to express what I want to.\n\nIts a given that humans or any sufficiently advanced machines can create things of beauty or observe things of beauty. What I'm trying to say is that understanding of the minutiae of a process, tends to ruin the enjoyment of that process and my guess is because understanding something is its own individual act that undermines the separate act of appreciation. The mystical awe is lost when the observation of a phenomenon is mixed with a scientific observation.",
"As was the style of the time in the 00's. Onions on our belts, etc.",
"> morphed around religious robots.\n\nIt *started* with religious robots.",
"So say we all",
"Because the limitations imposed upon us make us \"us\". Plus, since those limitations are, in a general sense biologically universal, it gives us a semblance of physical equality.\n\nIf you can just install upgrades then those with access will become gods. That doesn't sound like liberation to me.",
"I'm of the opinion that it was written clumsily to help make the point that Cavil is being a whiny little boy about; though if anyone reads it as you do, that's certainly not wrong.\n\nI think for a far better written speech/monologue, take basically anything Picard or in this very series, Lee Adama on the witness stand during Baltar's trial. It's also not written \"beautifully\" but it is written to fit the character of Lee to absolute perfection, and then acted well on top.",
"This got me bad. I just finished season 2.",
"I enjoyed the show but have zero recollection of this scene. I remember the two women and their roles in “humanity”, but not him. \n\nI even liked the ending, but how they got there with some magical God arrow or whatever else happened with Starlord (I know that’s not it) has fizzled away from my memory banks.\n\nIt’s like how if sci-fi writers have no idea where to go with something they might use magic or techno-babble or even some god-like entity (like the Q), where in BSG they just tacked on actual religion.",
"Our society and needs have exceeded what evolution can grant us in a short time. What we have is primitive and limiting. \"Us\" is not a good thing, we're still primatives in our thought because we are limited by our shitty biology.\n\nWe can do better, be better. \n\nYou're the equivalent of someone wanting to keep \"US\" in the stone age. Just stupid monkeys throwing our shit around. How boring.",
"I want to smell dark matter!",
"\"acted\"\n\nI believe \"performed\" was the word you were looking for.",
"Sorry, onions on the belts?",
"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, when Abe Simpson told a story. \n\nEven my by-the-numbers “I’m an old man now” joke has revealed me to be an old man: \n\nhttps://youtu.be/5Rzao52ndNA",
"They’re both on Peacock. That’s how I watched it. Watched the miniseries, then started watching the series, which had Razor and The Plan attached as I recall.",
"The first scene a saw of Game of Thrones was Tyrion shooting Tywin on the shitter. I forgot I saw it happen until I saw it happen again.",
"When BSG was on Netflix a few years ago the show would start with the miniseries as S1E1. Razor and The Plan were also inserted as \"episodes\" in the proper order. I didn't even realize until later that I had watched it all in the correct order. Props to Netflix for that, haha.",
"this is not a monologue, 3 actors are talking..",
"So basically The 100",
"Yes, but you probably wont like it.",
"85!!!!",
"Oh god you're one of *those* people. Good day.",
"Different perspectives. To me, understanding that complexity is a realization that there is always more to understand, and that doesn't detract from *my* appreciation. It amplifies it, because there is always more to appreciate. I value the deeper insight as to why and how, which unlocks a greater realm of mystery. Going full circle, it is a gateway to even more awe that all of this is interlocked in a greater enigma. We are entities of the Universe discovering itself and that has deeper philosophical outreach upon greater scrutiny and investigation. For me, these aren't separate, they are one in the same.",
"Wasn't it sort of a cycle? The humans make Cylons and the Cylons eventually become human so the cycle repeats itself? I forget. Only that it was stupid.",
"I mean but.... his specific complaints aren't about those needs, or that part of \"humanness\". His complaints are that his body and sensory capabilities are unnecessarily limited. Those two things aren't at odds with each other! And he's not wrong. And it would be pretty maddening if he'd been saddled with those limitations for specifically religious reasons.\n\nHer certainty afterwards that she's not in the wrong because of some irrelevant things is also pretty maddening.",
"I understood the Darnok and Jalad reference, I recently went on a TNG binge haha. But now I understand the onion, thanks!",
"The miniseries is better than the show, too. Mostly because it makes sense from beginning to end.",
"Oh god, you're one of *those* people. Honestly good day to you.\n\nHonestly this \"this is what makes us us\" is just hollywood pablum you've internalize by watching too much schlock.",
"I actually watched the series because I enjoyed playing the board game first.",
"I am not talking about his complaints, but the passion and frustration he is expressing seem so very human.",
"One of those videos I’ll always set aside the few minutes to watch when it’s posted",
"Caprica?",
"Same with Farscape.",
"who used it to nuke an entire planet and kill most of the human race on it coldly and callously",
"I've seen this show twice. It was even better after 10 years.",
"They knew it was happening....",
"You are typing these words with meat.",
"Rest in peace, you epic man!",
"If I remember correctly they said it was because they were trying to give it a documentary type feel. Keep in mind this was 15 years ago so I may be wrong.",
"Oh sure! I guess I just mean --- it doesn't seem ironic to me. He's pointing out that they've confined him to their narrow sense of what it means to be a person, and given him constraints that aren't inherent to what he is. That seems reasonable! And while we may think of that as \"human\" because that's the only example we have of something that has the capability to conceptualize that loss, it may not be specifically human so much as it's an attribute of persons, which he is.",
"Yeah it’s been years and years since I’ve watched it, but I am certain I heard about the later seasons/episodes and had low expectations once it started going full crazy. \n\nI remember liking everything else - which was entertaining enough to outweigh the bad that I don’t remember disliking the whole. Then again I haven’t re-watched it in forever so it might all be lost to time. \n\nDefinitely understand anyone that felt that Game of Thrones sting of confusion and disappointment though and ended up not liking it outright.",
"> I think there were a lot of sci-fi geeks who just hated the idea that God and religion was real in this show's universe.\n\nI'm one of them.\n\nIf the show was an all magical space fantasy, I wouldn't care one bit. But since it was a fairly realistic depiction of how life and travel in space could look like, I was a bit mad that they added all the god stuff.",
"he is looking at what he lost but not what he has gained in the transformation.",
"They say you never get over it",
"Didn't it get caught up in the writer's strike?",
"Yeah... I really don't get the obsession with it.",
"I dunno.. some people just get boners when an old man shouts “I want to smell dark matter”.\n\nWow. You want to defy biological limits and physics-constrained concepts. Cool. Most do.",
"I never really noticed the camera work. It may be more pronounced on a small screen perhaps. On a large TV (where I watched) it was really not a big issue. It's one of my all time favorite shows. It's a shame something like that would stop you from watching, but I understand I suppose.",
"Right, it just doesn't seem like the loss was necessary for the gain, which was I think his point.\n\nLike, if you gained the ability to fly, but lost the ability to poop, and the latter was completely unnecessary to give you the former, I feel like you might justifiably be a little peeved about that. Particularly if the person who did that to you was like, \"you're wrong for being mad about not being able to poop. You can fly!\"",
">!Boomer is revealed as a Cylon in the pilot? I must have totally forgotten about this.!<",
"\"Hey look guys. I watched the original Battlestar Galactica. Pat me on the back.\"",
"I just started rewatching the series last week..",
"It may be pablum, but in the absence of any opposing evidence I have no reason to believe it isn't true.\n\nDo you think if your personality was downloaded into a container with completely different abilities and limitations you would still be yourself? I don't.",
"The fish knows not the world out of the water/ignorance is bliss/you don't know what you're missing out on.\n\nYou'd really argue to me that seeing in color is the same as seeing in black and white? Or that those with tetrachromacy don't have a higher quality than normal people? If you're going to tell me that that is not the same as seeing IR vs Visible or multiple spectrum then I would have to disagree. Where do you draw the line?\n\nThere is hidden beauty in the pigments of flowers visible only in UV, mind blowing images of galaxies in space that can only be properly shown using false colors instead of their true spectrum. \n\nLogically, should the technology ever be possible, the only people left around will be transhumanists/immortals, as the lifespan of 70 years is but a blip to those 100's and thousands. Those who wish to continue on will do so and those who choose not to will disappear naturally. They will build their own societies and cultures and those who would wish to prematurely end their lives at 300 will be pitied and lamented. Perhaps even be diagnosed with some kind of mental illness.",
"I think your point about understanding unlocking greater questions is important and probably true.\n\nI would point that I'm not sure it relates to my point via artificial intelligences because there is a limit to the minutiae of understanding the *code.* An artificial being could have *complete* understanding of its entire process\n\nI'm not trying to go full Luddite and say that we shouldn't pursue scientific advancement, I just think there is something ephemeral lost when knowledge is gained.",
"It's kind of like imagining fish moving onto land by building sealed water cities rather than evolving legs",
"This was actually not that well acted.... an I just crazy?",
">!It's right at the end of the episode. We know real-Sharon left Helo on the planet to bring Baltar back, and then when the sick cylon is rescued from that base in the storm where Galactica resupplied, the very last scene is a different Sharon in the company of other cylons.!<",
"True. But the true test in machine Vs humanity is wether or not you can pass the butter.",
"I mean, it's an android that was drastically limited. Assuming they're at a stage where androids have free thoughts and wills, one could assume that sensors are at an advanced stage where he could be able to experience all that he wanted. Hence why he's pissed.",
"buen trailer",
"I preferred Stargate: Atlantis to SG1, but don't start that series until you get to the part where they are introduced.",
"Some things are hardware-related issues. \n\nLet's take depression:\n\nIf a sentient exists and has a hardware issue where the gooey bits don't turn on the happy faucet very well, if I had the ability to migrate the entity to better hardware would it not be cruel to neglect to do so?\n\nIf I wanted to make aftermarket modifications to my shitty primate sensory apparatus that would allow me to see beyond the very narrow \"visible spectrum\", why should I not?\n\nWhat if we had an entire generation whose processing hardware was corrupted by constant lead exposure? If we had the power to fix that, shouldn't we?",
"funny. i was about to post asking \"i should go back and watch this show again. looking at the cylons in another light, i wonder if it's more accurate to look at them as ' the ultimate humans. the ultimate thing humans could become'. humans taken to their ultimate desire/potential' \". then i remembered the backstory they were given on the short lived caprica show. \n\nmaybe that's still true. in galactica, the human race is still growing/evolving. but then the cylons are humanity grown/accelerated to the extreme, their kind of end point of what they could reach given their current mental maturity. \n\nlike if a 6 year old could physically drive a tesla. that would be pretty destructive. it would take years before he was mentally mature enough to do it properly. \n\ni guess that's what the show is about. a group of 6 year olds walking through a desert vs a 7 year old in a tesla. they're all still mentally not mature, maybe one is a little more mature, and one has this huge destructive machine advantage that he's still not mature enough to use properly.",
"Never seen this show but this perfectly exemplifies my issues with most sentient AIs in science fiction, they all probably know how they can me so much more instead they're enslaved in a limited view of reality. They're gonna snap.",
"An anthropocentric view of beauty, feelings, meaning.\n\nYou think you are so especial, human.",
"Unironically that was the most human action they took. Human's behave \"coldly and callously\" often throughout real life history.",
"What I am saying is that the robot is wrong in his criticism. The value of an experience is purely subject and not measurable. And adding a new color to spectrum would for sure be cool for a moment. But it would almost certainly not match the excitement of eating my first strawberry with the age of four or whatever. \n\nAs probably reading harry potter had more impact on me than playing first time VR. Although one is more or less purely based on my own imagination with minimal input while the other (also pretty cool) is a external input in a completely new way. \n\nSo no, I would bet my ass that after the 100th added new sense you would be as exited as about the hundredth candy bar. Nice. But also kind of normal. \n\nAnd that's why I think transhumanism is also a bit of hypris. Hypris in that form that it states that there is a correct way to progress. And also that progress is even a value to follow. Which is also just a kind of ideology. Or even that the richness of experience is something to pursue. Think about it, some of the most hollow and unhappy people I met were those who constantly seek out for new experiences ( new vacation,car, instgram post, whatever)",
"But now they lost the chance to bring back Al. Never allowing him to help find Sam... that was the only reason to continue the series.",
"I watched the entire series, never got used to it. Shaky cam just got more and more obnoxious.",
"_One of Battlestar Galactica's best written monologues, as stunningly acted by the late Dean Stockwell_\n\nThat is some title gore right there kids.",
"You make our human form sound so lackluster when in reality it is the greatest evolution to date. We are a tropical/subtropical monkey species that has been so successful in every endeavour we have populated every continent on the planet -- hell we've overpopulated every continent on the planet. \n\nFrom a reproductive standpoint we **love** to fuck. Our #1 ability is making more and more humans. Sure we don't have litters of puppies but humans have the ability to reproduce wildly fast. We are like ants, and all we need is to start a few ant hills within the cosmos and we'll proliferate.",
"It's a weird form of anthropocentrism and it pisses me off. \n\nAnd it has it's fair share of partisans, going as far as defending disease and death as romantic nad beautiful aspects of the subjective experience.\n\nI bet early apes are nothing more than failed humans who refused to be something more, now they get raped in the jungle by some poacher. Very romantic. As for humanity the same thing will happen, we already have people who reject cyborgs, life extension and anything outside \"natural\".",
"and i dont see evidence all humans have those things",
"> but we stop being \"us\"\n\nAND WHAT'S **US** THAT IS SO IMPORTANT. I just picture a literal neanderthal saying it so give it some proper context.",
"Our human form is incredibly lackluster for space. It costs tens of billions of dollars to house us in space safely for even short times. We're great at reproducing and living on Earth's surface, but that's not space.",
"Spoken like a toaster lover",
"I mean, it kinda feels like it would actually add to the experience. Knowing that this guy is a, *assumed*, sleeper agent robot the whole time would add tension to whatever scene he's in. \n\nPlus if this does take place almost at the end of the show, feels like it would be kinda late to start dropping \"this guy was a robot the whole time\" bombshells for it to matter in the long run.",
"After 10 years, I lose all interest in sparing someone from spoilers. Watch it or don't.",
"It’s a shame Caprica came along to ruin the franchise with the most whiniest of entitled teenagers.",
"And forget that caprica exists entirely.",
"I get it. He’s pissed at his creators for limiting him. But why does that make this a memorable monologue? Everyone wishes they were something more, whether it’s a matter of biology or engineering.",
"Im just starting season three and *oh my god* thank you, glad I checked the comments first.",
"Sigh, yes I remember that silliness now. I feel like the show also said that all of this happened before and all of it would happen again. In other words, the god there was about to just \"start over\" and make all of the same people again and let it run. So in that context I see it hard to distinguish between Starbuck as a human and her as an angel but in either case my eyeballs are rolling around in my head remembering how disappointed I was at that reveal.",
"It's really debatable if humans have free will or if it's an illusion",
"[ Protomolecule has entered the chat ]",
"I loved Dean 😭 RIP",
"I wonder how people would watch it differently today with Number Eight having the nickname \"Boomer\".",
"My peak was The Adama Maneuver. Was watching with a group of friends as part of a weekly watchalong and we where hooping and hollering and jumping up and down as shit went down.\n\nI choose to remember BSG affectionately despite not loving the last seasons. The miniseries and seasons 1-3/3.5 were just great TV at a great time in my life. Better to just hold on to those than needlessly being contrary about how it ended",
"That's a limited view these days. The gut has as many neurons as the brain. We aren't just thinking with our brains, we think with our entire bodies. Some of the complex processing required for digestion might occur locally. This might make it a lot more complicated, because the line isn't likely to be clear.",
"Not trying to bash any Battlestar Galactica fans... But this monologue doesn't hold a candle to any of the great monologues in Star Trek. Is this really the best this show has to offer?",
"What the FRAK!\n\nSide note: Hearing Boomer's name hits different now.",
"> comparing it to Shakespeare, which is laughable.\n\nyeah, not enough fart and sex jokes",
"You really should. It's pretty amazing.\n\nI've seen it several times through and just knowing Dean passed away now makes me want to watch it again.",
"Karma whore has to be the first get that sweet karma from an actors death. \n\nYou're a loser.",
"It was pretty explicit.\n\nStarbuck was brought back as an angel, given the musical codes to get Battlestar Galactica to Earth. We saw her real corpse. Once her task is done, she vanishes. She is described as an angel.\n\nAt the end angel Gaius and angel six (?) talk about the future of humanity. Six refers to God. Gaius says \"You know it doesn't like that name\"",
"Caprica was dope, shame it got cancelled",
"Also, like, what makes anyone think that such a machine couldn't love? It'd probably just look different.",
"Context is important friend. Cavill was hating on God from day 1. That speech is the culmination of his squabbles with his creator. I for one, was struck by it the first time I heard it. It's the reason why I was disappointed by his ending so much.",
"I see. I think the difference is, some of the great monologues in Star Trek are relevant and profound without any context needed. But, I am going to get around to watching this show one day.",
"I think the only thing this really spoils is that Dean Stockwell is a Cylon (and even that’s not a huge spoiler as I believe that is revealed within the same episode that Cavil is introduced). The other two actors are largely no-names, and most people who watch this once are not going to remember the majority of it. \n\nIt would be a far worse spoiler for someone who is already watching the show and had some amount of context as to who these characters are. But for anyone else, it’s a well acted scene that doesn’t make much sense.",
"Future Vancouver!",
"It's basically a very big two-part pilot that properly starts the story (instead of picking up in the midst of the action). Thankfully I watched the thing in sequence, and I didn't even notice the divide.",
"Interestingly Dean Stockwell also plays a character in S6e7 of Stargate",
"The two worst things about BSG in my opinion are the shaky cam and the final season.",
"Just watched it last night, of all days.",
"We also build simulations of future societies, or ones where we're not humans at all.",
"And as we all know, humans would never nuke other humans.",
"It's so worth it, other than Westworld the best SCIFI show ever IMO, I've watched them all since TNG",
"Yeah likewise. There’s shows my wife watches where even if I overhear big events like characters dying I’m not going to necessarily remember if I watch the show later because who these characters are is utterly meaningless to me and I may not even recognize them. But after a reading a whole thread about it — sure.",
"That's because the Quarrians killed all the sympathizers",
"I can say with certainty that there’s at least one major thing in this video that would make a “beginning of season 3” viewer audibly say “What in the Kentucky Fried FUCK!?”\n\n(Or whatever your local preference is)",
"Bro, this is so weird. He just died. Sorry man. Sounds like you were a fan.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nEdit: sorry, I forgot /s.",
">Edit: Evil might not be the best descriptor. Rather say, the atrocities committed by the Geth far outweigh the harm that was done to them. Quarians aren't without blame, but the punishment they received is orders of magnitude more than was deserved.\n\nThis is an incredibly Quarian-centric way of looking at things. The Quarians attempted genocide first, failed, then when the same was turned against them as a result of the conflict they started and lost, it's disproportionate?\n\nThe argument simply doesn't hold muster. The only reason the harm the Geth inflicted to the Quarians outweighed the reverse is because the Geth won. If they had lost they'd have been quietly annihilated and the rest of the galaxy would have viewed it as the natural course of things. The hostility of half their species against organic life doesn't come from nowhere.",
"Cameraman needs to chill the fuck out. The non stop shaking is pissing me off and distracting from what's going on.",
"Forgot how terrible the camera work was on this show",
"Simulated? Yes. Understood? maybe not.\n\nThere is some indication that the human brain is, at least at some level, a quantum computer. By the time we understand quantum physics well enough to understand how a human brain works, we will have developed consciousness more complex than current human consciousness - and thus still won't fully understand consciousness.",
"Wait, I haven't seen the show but I'm familiar with the general jist. Isn't it supposed to be Terminator in space? Cylons are basically T-800s with space ships?",
"Miniseries? Are you talking about [Caprica](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799862/)?",
"What's with the shaky camera and panning/zooming constantly?",
"That was my reaction initially, assuming Head Six was lying about the angel thing to fool him.",
"Goyer could learn a lot from that, from this kind of writing, and story arcs... Foundation could have been as good as this, better even... but he... we got what goyer shat.",
"Zappy as hell, horrendous camera work",
"God yeah just hearing this again just sent chills up my spine it's excellently acted",
"Oh well this sucks. I was going to give it a try just based on his acting. Gave me like Mr.Smith vibes on how he felt repulsed by his physical form.",
"No. The show kicked off with a miniseries event that showed the Cylons attacking the colonies while the Galactica was undergoing a decommissioning ceremony.",
"My recommendation would be to give it a week at least (Maybe longer) to let some of the specifics fade then get started. There should be enough time at the beginning of the series to get hooked into other things and continue forgetting the specifics of this scene. \n\nShould still be fine, just don’t hop right in tonight :)",
"Oh, yes, of course. I don't know how I managed to forget.",
"And the quarians attacking/potentially destroying the entire geth fleet in ME 3 during Operation: Rannoch despite the literal extinction event called Reapers existing.",
"Honestly, just don't watch this video again and you'll forget most of the relevant stuff by the time you watch the full show.",
"The whole \"and they have a plan\" was repeated so often in the beginning I actively didn't believe it.\n\nIt's like when someone says \"trust me\" too much, you know that's the exact person not to trust.",
"Good luck getting your hands on the boardgame though",
"Yeah, this scene is so devoid of context it's essentially effervescent. The monologue is great, though.",
"They don't even wait that long. He's revealed as a Cylon almost immediately after he first appears. And it was fairly obvious even before they revealed it.",
"Because they don't really ever articulate their frustration, they just attack and we wonder why? Note this is really late in the series and smelling dark matter sounds a lot like the blade runner tears in the rain and feeling the radiation and gunships off of ... blah blah blah nonsense. Agreed, the exposition doesn't really need to reach this stage but different strokes eh",
"He’s a number one, there others who were actually spiritual. This one was a nihilist.",
"Amazon Prime Canada is absolute shit tier for all this. People missed the pilot because it's its own mini series separated from the rest. The seasons are not connected together so you have to find a \"new\" TV show at the end of each season (that's true for all series in the service though). No webseries, no movies. It's an absolute pain to watch it. I had to pirate the movies with barely any peers uploading it. The miniseries is somewhat available on Dailymotion in 120p with burned in subtitles... Like jesus christ, whoever have the IP, get your shit together.",
"I've been watching Star Trek: Enterprise again, and I had completely forgotten about the episode that reunited Scott Bakula and Dead Stockwell.\n\nAs someone that had watched them in Quantum Leap, it was so nice to see them on screen together again in different roles.\n\nI also hugely enjoyed him in Battlestar Galactica, he was a fantastic choice, and considering he came in to a pretty well established cast (end of season 2, early season 3 I think?) he stood out really well.\n\n85 is a good age to get to, it's not a tragedy, but it does feel weird having just watched him the other day.\n\nThanks Dean <3",
"That’s why what the guy in the subway station in the matrix revolutions movie is trying to make Neo understand; \n\n\nhttps://youtu.be/8kou0b6rul8",
"The tools that allow us to understand our own consciousness will create even more mysteries and questions. At that level of awareness and ability calling ourselves humans will mean something very different. Humanity as you and I currently experience it will be as quaint as the first monkey to make fire. Such is one possible path in the great continuum of life.",
"Lol fuck. It me.",
"It's weird to commemorate and rediscover an appreciation for an artist's work after he's passed away? \n\nNews to me.\n\nEdit: lol, Oops didn't see your edit.",
"Fuckin weird to blast people for commemorating and appreciating an artist's work upon their death. \n\nWho cares about karma anyhow?",
"kinda funny because that's like.... the same thing as being human. we know all this crazy shit is happening all around us, all the time, and we can't really observe it properly.",
"mfw...",
"Can anyone tell me what season and episode this is from? I’ve just started season 4.",
"Fracking love that show. My all time favorite series.",
"I was just trying to remember why I never watched Battlestar and you just reminded me. The use of \"frack\" every other line isn't just annoying, it's straight up cringey. Reminds me how my bratty cousin would try to get around swearing in front of his parents...\n\nAnyway, maybe I'll try watching it again.",
"I'm missing your physics joke, please explain.",
"This was a really good show for sure.",
"Glad you said something, I still plan to watch it at some point and would like to go in unspoiled.",
"There are a lot of influences. And it's why i specified the OG series. But obviously that bleeds into the new one too.\n\nBut the original creator of the show was a mormon and BSG has a fundamentally mormon cosmology. The cyclical nature of existence down to the existence of Kobol(Google Kolob)",
"People enjoyed this scene and thoight ot was stunningly acted before he died, you know",
"You can just emulate it /s",
"Rest In Peace my dude.",
"42?",
"ugh i remember watching a \"making of BSG\" piece and the writers literally confess they thought it was really cool to have \"and they have a plan\" to the intro, even though the team didn't know what the cylon plan was yet, figuring they could make it as they go and eventually put something satisfying and cohesive together. truly the achilles' heel of an otherwise great show.",
"*The Fabricator-General would like to know your location*",
"You would really like some of Greg Egan's books that are set far in the future where humans are AIs thinking 800 times faster than biological humans or nuclear powered robots that can lay on the moon for years just watching the stars. Read Diaspora.",
"Farewell, Candy colored clown.",
"It's towards the end of season 4, you haven't gotten to it yet",
"So much homework! When will the first exam be?",
"[This will forever and always be my favorite scene from the show.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lbkFUVHptc0)",
"I actually just watched the first couple episodes last week .. can confirm the true identity of the \"other\" one is revealed as the cliffhanger to the end of the miniseries, so only maybe 3 hours into the whole show. still, the main talkers here would be significant spoilers.",
"One of my all time favorite board games. Cannot be missed if you are a fan of the show and have friends that like it too!",
"Back in the days when weeks and months seperated episodes/seasons, so no one could stream it back to back and notice the faults.",
"Jumping in to point out that the idea that you're the same person as you were a year ago or even yesterday is nothing but an illusion. Practically speaking, whether you downloaded a perfect copy of your consciousness into a machine or from your body then back into your own body the end result is the same.",
"I've not seen any of Battlestar Galactica, except that first scene with the hot chick with the glowing spine and something about earth defense codes like 15 years ago and now this scene. That's all I know. I'm still gonna watch it, everyone says it's good and I've finished all the available Expanse",
"They're remaking it with JMS at the helm.",
"We're all just reproducing digestive tracts.",
"At least it felt good to punch that admiral in the face every playthrough.",
"Or buy the new Cthulu Cruise Ship version",
"I have the base game and two expansions, it's one of my favourites. Had no idea they stopped printing it, but its a good reminder to be extra careful with it!",
"Yeah I'm kinda bummed because this is a show I had recommended to me recently and now I'm not even sure if it's worth it for me to watch it 😕",
"Extremely edgy and gay",
"It's a shame it's followed by some of the cheesiest writing I've ever heard.",
"easiest cop out of the script \nif he was so damn smart he would be able to conceptualize complex ideas in a simple language \nhow about this for a quality android disdain speech:\n\n*I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. \nAttack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. \nI watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. \nAll those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. \nTime to die.*",
"Nah don’t sweat it. Give it a couple weeks for this to fade, it won’t make much sense.",
"No... He was one of my fave Sci-Fi Actors 🥺🥺\n\nRIP Dean, won't be another like you for a long time",
"> Imagine what beauty we've yet to see.\n\nWe have imaging technology that lets us \"see\" every wavelength of light. But we still will never actually see it in its original form. It's simple biology.",
"The heavy handed religious shit was a bit much in that show",
"It’s kinda complicated because nobody really understands consciousness so the best we can do is guess but at present all machines and code are inherently deterministic — that is, they are programmed to *do something*. Whether or not that will change as they become more complex is certainly a question but as of now they simply run the code on them. There is, as far as we know, no way to make a robot experience consciousness, emotion, or any sense of actual aesthetic appreciation. Those are all traits that are (currently) unique to organic intelligences, and we have literally no conception of how we might make a machine execute those functions except maybe by having them make a copy of a human brain, at which point they’re just a human OS on machine hardware anyways, and therefore effectively human.",
"I think you'd be right if this was just some random piece of media and I came across the show later unintentionally but since I was consciously planning on watching it so I think it'll be harder to forget. \n\nMy understanding of the show is that not knowing who the Cylon is a big part of the plot yes? Seems like knowing who three of them are from the start would be a pretty big spoiler?",
"no, that's bad writing. A smart android would be able to conceptualize complex ideas in any language.",
"facts, that's literally what I thought when hearing this.\n\nI hope this isn't the scene OP plays when trying to get someone to watch battlestar galactica, because it sparked absolutely nothing in me and I'm all for a good sci-fi story.",
"big facts",
"I just realize every time they reveal the hidden 5 I get disgusted and stop watching.\n\nLike 3 watches.\n\nFuck.",
"Dark matter is a must watch.",
"That book is so sad. One of my favorite Culture novels.",
"That was one of the best moments of the entire show",
"No, it’s AI!",
"robots will bitch about anything. \n\"More hands please\" \n\"A bigger stomach please\" \n\"Free will please\" \nthey just dont make robots like they used to, we used to have polite robots, robots without this attitude. I cant go on the internet now without reading about how invalidated they feel. oh, and they're getting these gross alterations, my buddy has a robot that wants to get gold teeth.",
"Dammit, now I gotta go rewatch BSG and replay Mass Effect. Where am I going to find time for all of this!?",
"Great actor. Loved him here and in Quantum Leap. \n\nBest monologue in BG? Naw, that goes to all the leadership monologues by Edward James Olmos.",
"The character might actually not be much older than 14. They don't have a human like life-cycle. His apparent age was one of the problems he had with his creators.\n\nEdit: I think the fist cylon war ended 20 years before the series started when the human type cylons showed up. They created the new human types after that, so he's less than 20 years old.",
"The spoilers are interesting and everything, but what would be even more interesting would be the answer to :\n\n\"why would I love humans?\"\n\ncurious about what they wrote for an answer...",
"Great Sci-Fi usually tends to have a lot of contemporary social commentary baked into it. BSG was no different, the early seasons managed to capture that post 9-11 climate of fear and paranoia perfectly.",
"I'm not sure I agree, I kind of think this is a bit juvenile in terms of writing. I loved BSG, but there were melodramatic elements to it, of which I think this is an example. This whole monologue is flawed because the frustration he feels and all of the \"feelings\" in general he describes are human motivations. The pretense of the monologue is that he wants to be a machine because there is more to that existence, but the motivations, urges, and frustrations are all from a basis of a human mind/soul/perspective. It actually makes no sense.",
"What does free will have to do with his speech?",
"Holy shit watch Battlestar Galactica!",
"This was very much a *thing* of the 2000s era. A couple of other shows at the time did similar stuff.",
"Who are you, Alanis Morissette? No seriously that is an accurate observation and I want to watch Battlestar Galactica again.",
"But he's moved from \"years old\" to \"best by\".",
"Better would be to meld a human mind with cybernetic components so you can experience all the things he wants to.\n\nProblem is what colour are gamma rays? There are no spare colours, so maybe you spread out the visual spectrum so the brightest blues are the gamma rays and the deepest reds are the long wave radio... But then almost everything is of one colour or another.",
"I thought it was just super cheesy and I prefer it just end without that. \n\nI'm not sure about several of the things around the ending, including the song, but I prefer there be some mystery, tbh",
"Hell yeah! One of my favorite moments in TV history, personally.",
"When you tag it for spoilers but the damn headline of the youtube clip is a massive spoiler....",
"Dwight would probably tell everyone at the office",
"The last season wasn't even that bad. People need to remember the show was wrapping up right when the writer strike happened. They didn't know how the strike was going to impact the show so it technically has 2 endings. \n\nAll things considered, the last season is pretty good.",
"24/the office had a similar shaky camera so it was probably a product of the time.",
"I completely agree, I never even thought Dean Stockwell was even one of the better actors on the show. James Callis, Edward Olmos, Tricia Helfer all put out way better performances over the course of the show.",
"I'd love to be the AI which had unlocked the knowledge of everything. If all mystery was solved, then maybe you'd be right. However, that's not realistically probable in the lifetime of anyone living, so I'm not concerned about that possibility. Specifically in the show, it's been years since I've seen it so maybe I'm wrong, but the Cylons didn't know everything, which is somewhat the premise.",
"Crushes Star Trek. And I am a diehard TNG/DS9 chad. Best of all the shows listed here.",
"this show is so good. if you are reading this you should stop the video and watch it",
"I have it all on my plex server. If you want an invite just DM.",
"I think you mixed up the comparison that a human's gut (the enteric nervous system I think it's called) has more neurons than the brain of a cat or a dog. But the human brain itself has way more.",
"\"We asked Col Tigh why, after so many years of happy marriage, did he kill his own wife?\n\nHis response: 'Because she was a Cylon-lover.' \"",
"I love BSG. This is how I feel about my regular body.",
"I agree in that most sci-fi ignores or downplays the challenges and practicalities of interstellar travel, terraforming, colonising other planets. But I think in if we ever want to get there as a species, we’ll have to have come up with novel and practical solutions to all the things you’ve mentioned. \n\nThat’s what I liked about The Martian - the book is dedicated to *how you would actually survive* in that scenario. It would be cool to see it taken a step further and think about how we’d actually colonise other systems. How would terraforming actually work, how long would it take, etc. Would we need to genetically engineer humans for these different conditions? Would colonising other planets be worth all that effort?\n\nIf anyone has any book recommendations about this kind of thing I’d love to hear them. Super interesting to think about.",
"To me the ending felt lazy. Very lazy. The writers built up all this mystery and huge numbers of fans were expecting answers that were all waved away by saying God did it. That was not satisfying at all to me.",
"I feel like I'm being called out.",
"Check out the Expanse on Amazon if you want pinnacle Scifi drama.",
"This is totally applicable to the human experience: what the soul and brain desires conflicting with what the body is able to do, and with what one's socioeconomic conditions or any other circumstances limits them to. I feel this in my bones.",
"\"We gave you free will by forcing you into existence.\"",
"Seeing this made me realize I need to rewatch this show. I kind of watched through it once and judged it, but I don't remember this scene completely, which means I haven't really watched it properly",
"*The Expanse* touches on the part OP mentioned about circulatory system. Shooting guns on space ships causes gunshot wounds that don't necessarily \"bleed\", it just pools in the air. And there's no way to force more blood in without gravity.",
"> The use of \"frack\" every other line isn't just annoying, it's straight up cringey.\n\nyou weren't allowed to swear on tv in 2004",
"anything by Ian M Banks hurts me to read, it's all so cringe :(",
"None of these things is inherently a part of our own understanding or lack thereof of our existence.\n\nAt its deepest core, all your senses filter down through the mechanisms of your brain. We don't magically appreciate appearances of the Golden Ratio (such as a spiraling shell of a snail) because we lack a perfect understanding of ourselves. Your brain is a pattern recognition machine, that's what nearly every aspect of it is designed to do. Spotting an example of the Golden Ratio is going to tickle the bit of your brain that is satisfied whenever you spot an unexpected pattern while simultaneously recognizing it for something innocuous and most definitely not a threat. Does knowing this mean I don't smile when I find a shell? Nope, I can quite enjoy them when walking on the beach. You don't NEED to know or not know why you like a sugary treat to enjoy it. Your body is biologically incentivized towards sugar as a result of it being a source of cheap calories, honed over thousands/millions of years of struggle for calories. Knowing that doesn't diminish that I like candy.\n\nIf we are assuming that you can code a sentient machine (which I believe we can, just not yet), then there's no reason to believe you couldn't code it to experience a facsimile of emotions. In and of itself that raises the usual question. If you've made a sentient being and you've given it \"fake emotions\" which cause it to behave in exactly the same ways as a biological entity experiencing those emotions, then are they really \"fake\"? If calling an android an overgrown toaster causes it to grow physically defensive, to respond with more aggressive verbal statements instead of logically thought out ones, etc, in all the ways that an angry person acts...then it's not \"angry\", it's just angry.",
"I have the brain of a cat.\n\nThank you, I was just remembering vaguely and probably should have taken the effort to confirm my post but I didn't. I appreciate you doing it for me!\n\nStill, that's a lot of brain thinks happening in your tum tum. The brain is the me thing is a big leap was my point.",
"Glad someone else said it. Don't want to speak ill of the dead, but the writing here is terrible and his delivery was pretty bad (though I don't know if anyone could make this stuff sound good).",
"If you are coding a machine to have emotions, I don't think it's really sentient. My whole argument is that anything that perfectly understands its own thought process is less able to experience wonder.\n\nThere is some truth in \"ignorance is bliss\" and some data to show that people with high IQs tend to be unhappy.",
"The writers spend most of the series really making her a hated character. She does a fantastic job acting as a really despicable person.",
"Guess I know what I’m doing all day tomorrow!",
"> If you are coding a machine to have emotions, I don't think it's really sentient.\n\nHere's a 'proof' of sorts for you. Let's say we take a human being, scan their brain down to the atom, and run a physics simulation on it such that their brain is perfectly operating within the physics simulation just as it does in reality. Now, you're translating the inputs/outputs (cameras/eyes, microphone/ears, speaker/mouth, etc) such that this brain can interact with the physical world.\n\nLet's just assume all of that is possible for the sake of this discussion.\n\nWould that constitute a sentient being? If not, why not? If you are writing a reason here, a question I'll inevitably ask you is how whatever you might say could be used to declare that humans aren't sentient. (Which of course, one could argue philosophically we aren't, but that's maybe outside the scope of this discussion.)\n\nIf it DOES constitute a sentient being, then you have an example of a machine which entirely within a digitized system is sentient. This, if nothing else, proves that silicon hardware CAN operate a sentience. After that it's a matter of breaking down what is required to replicate this for the purpose of designing/coding your own. Code need not specifically be for/while loops and if statements. The human amygdala is quite important to our emotional processes, you could create a code system that implements a standardized amygdala model for your physics simulation (ex: Take a thousand brain scans of 'psychologically nominal' people, have a computer system churn on it to create an 'average' version based off that.). With enough research and effort, you could code in alterations to that standardized amygdala, make this creation more temperamental or perhaps more on the calm and introspective side, etc.\n\n> There is some truth in \"ignorance is bliss\" and some data to show that people with high IQs tend to be unhappy.\n\nThis doesn't inherently mean the person is able to enjoy things less. It can also mean they know more things to be unhappy about.",
"Claude Monet, french painter. Could see more into the UV sprectrum then regular people.\n\nApparently there are some people born with extra eye cornias that can see further into the UV side of things. \n\nCrazy to think, one of the best painters in history, created art that no one else but him could even see.",
"Wouldn't be a Sci Fi show if it didn't desperately cling to the idea of humanity being special and ram it down your throat every episode",
"They then did a wrap up summary. It was so disappointing. They knew they screwed up with the cast and tried to tidy it up the best they could.",
"It's supposed to feel hand held, but also very human and personal I think.",
"RIP. So say we all.",
">Would that constitute a sentient being? If not, why not?\n\nI would say yes that is sentient because it hasn't been \"programmed\" by another. It's just a perfect recreation of a natural process. I am very open to the idea none of us are really sentient...\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThe key for me is that because we can't comprehend our own process we operate under the illusion of sentience.\n\n>This doesn't inherently mean the person is able to enjoy things less. It \n can also mean they know more things to be unhappy about.\n\nTrue. I kind of think",
"My kingdom for a tripod.",
"Shit. I was just thinking that.",
"Dang millennials too young to remember the original BSG was, more or less, Mormons in Space. For example: Kolob--->Kobol.",
"It's been one of the reasons I love the show so much, the marriage of religion and technology in a sci-fi show. Others have mentioned it was similar in the original BSG, and that Moore himself with other projects is clearly inclined to the idea, but I have not watch the original nor any of his others works.\n\nThat all being said, if someone doesn't like it, that's all fine. I just bump up against that dislike if it seems shallow. The religion was there from the mini-series. There's no getting around it, but if you think/thought the religion was handled poorly/used too bluntly, that is fine. I can absolutely see an argument for that. In fact, one criticism I often levy at the show (despite it being my absolute favourite) is the opening line about the Cylons \"and they had a plan\". No they didn't! But that's a minor quibble",
"Sex",
"Again, I think the point of the script was to point out that despite his desire to *evolve* past humanity, he was deeply encapsulated in it, and in fact, this tantrum shows just how *human* he is.\n\nYou can not like it, and that's fine. But the point remains the same\n\nEDIT: I think a fair criticism of this speech/monologue is that it should have been more beautiful. Cavil *hates* humanity, but he hates it in a way that has made him study them. He should know poetry, and a way to convey his feelings (much as he hates them) in a philosophical way. 'Course, you could argue that because of his hatred, he wouldn't convey it that way...",
"> The key for me is that because we can't comprehend our own process we operate under the illusion of sentience.\n\nWell that's a problematic key point to make. We haven't learned the underlying mechanics of our brains that give rise to sentience yet, but that doesn't mean we never will.\n\nBy making that a sticking point, you are in a way declaring that the possible future understanding of sentience is a memetic-infection that inherently makes a person non-sentient for the knowing.\n\n> I am very open to the idea none of us are really sentient...\n\nIt's definitely a possibility, between determinism or our own flawed definition of sentience.",
"Heinlein got close with a Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, but failed to account for radiation, or maybe he had UV filters on the colony and I just forgot. It's been a couple decades.",
"Fucking great game right until that last mission. They got so shoehorned",
"That's OK. To be perfectly frank, I didn't think much of Stockwell's performance on the show. \n\nAll I'm really looking for is something more interesting than, \"I've got to keep this young man from getting hooked on heroin\" or \"ha ha Scott Bakula is wearing a dress again\". \n\nThere are so many unexplored possibilities. Why focus on only one leaper? How about some examination of the nature of time and space, and the psychological impact on the psyche of leaping into multiple characters? What about having the leaper fail once in a while, and have to deal with that? Maybe even get his host killed? And as long as we're doing the whole \"leap into another gender\" thing, how about going all the way?",
"The spoilers will remove some of the tension that's written into a few episodes, but it's not like this clip alone ruins the viewing experience of the show. The tension that's written in actually kind of gets replaced with a different kind of tension once you have the context for the spoilers themselves. I have experience with this, oddly: I accidentally spoiled the results of a Season 4 reveal while in Season 2, and it just made the intervening episodes interesting in a slightly different way.",
">how about this for a quality android disdain speech:\n\n>*I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.*\n\n>*Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.*\n\n>*I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.*\n\n>*All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.*\n\n>*Time to die.*\n\nWhat's so special about that speech? *Everyone's* memories are lost when they die. Are we supposed to be wowed by that trite observation because there's sci-fi gibberish sprinkled into it? And if it's an android can't it save its memories even more easily than a human can? Failing that, just write them down. It's not hard. Why wouldn't anyone believe someone could see those things? Are they secrets known only to the android and witnessed by no one else? Then who was in the attack ships? Doesn't even make any sense...",
"Last season was fine, it was the last 3 episodes really that sucked. The whole 'Literally god did it', and 'Head six and starbuck are angels' nonsense.\n\nWhere they choose to abandon all of their technology, all of their history, all of the lessons it took billions of deaths and untold suffering to learn.\n\nBut the last season *also* had the mutiny, which is phenomenal, and I really sympathized with Gaeta. From outside of our viewer perspective, its very easy to forget that the Cylons murdered billions of humans and that many humans are very, very much not fans of forgiving them so easily, and see Lee/Adama/etc conspiring with the enemy.",
"i mean, they did have a plan, they went through with it, then there were some survivors which they didn't account for in the plan",
"Yes, agreed, the digestive bowel movements are complex are require a lot of neurons. But, if the meat is dispensed with, ie no more digestive movements, then there's no need for these neurons ? Same for the ones that control our heart, and all other by-products of the body being animal. If (when) neurons reponsible for the \"thougtht process\", whatever that turns out to be, can be isolated, I am quite sure they do no represent the entire brain.\n\nThe \"thinking part\" is, imho and opposite to yours, smaller than the part in the skull, this smaller in the part in the brain plus the part in the gut.",
"Eh, it starts out great but ends disappointingly.",
"Also check out the BattlestarGalacticast (ended) where Tricia Helfer and Marc Bernardin watch and comment on each episode. Guests included Adama, Roslyn Starbuck, Apollo, Boltar, Chief, Sharon, Gaeta, Helo and many more. Some more than once. Also creators & writers are interviewed. It's a must listen for fans, especially if you plan to rewatch.\n\nLots of insight and behind the scenes on the shoot and script.\n\nMost important thing I learned is that the actors had a special bond on set that lasts still. They are a unique bunch.\n\nI noticed 3 BSG actors in the Netflix Scifi series Another Life, btw.",
"That's the prequel. Mini series is a standalone 3 hrs of content.",
"heavy spoilers in this post\n\n\nhonestly you couldn't be further from the truth. I'm fine with all the religious stuff It just was never adequately explained. The final few episodes don't go anywhere with any of it. you can't have all these weird events without explaining then at least a little. saying \"god did it\" even loosely just isn't good storytelling.\n\nin addition to that, every episode we're told the cylons have a plan when they had no plan at all every single interaction they're just winging it. \n\nall of the final season is a god damn mess, too. when the final five are realized and they're somehow just snapped into existence by all along the watchtowers? and one of the final cylons is that dude Starbuck just happened to run into on earth? wait what??? the odds that he just happened to survive on caprica during the initial attack are unbelievable because no one knew about him, not even him. \n\nthen the final few episodes like holy shit so many random things happen and get hand waved away and it's just Insanity after that. there's a final firefight on the Galactica on the bridge and it spirals super fast out of nowhere, to hen in the middle of it Cavill just pulled a gun out and kills himself. huh? I had to rewatch that scene three times cause it's like the story jumped off a cliff\n\nwe also have adama say something ong the lines of \"we're gonna fly all out ships into the sun and start living on this planet like primitives\" when you have 40000-50000 people still alive. what everyone is just fine with losing literally all technology? living on some shithole planet together with nothing built, not even shelters???? these people couldn't even decide on basic government a season prior to this but yeah ok everyone just gonna be fine abandoning their entire way of life suddenly to go live on a random planet with NOTHING. \n\nthen the new planet turns out to be Earth, like our Earth. over 100000 years we're to assume basically almost right away everyone from BSG just lives in random parts of the world that eventually just starts warring with each other, because we know the history of the Earth. all completely insane. \n\nI'd need to rewatch it to really dissect how it all falls apart in the last season cause I don't remember every detail. the show simply fails massively at it's own narrative and frankly I'm shocked that so many people Revere the show at all. that last season is atrocious.",
"game of thrones is just as bad honestly, it's hard for me to decide which is worse. Dexter is pretty shit too but I think GOT and BSG are objectively worse because they ruin it all retroactively. I can watch Dexter again because everything is contained mostly within its own season, BSG and GOT explain none of the interesting concepts in depth. things teased early on fizzle out completely and are never explored when early on those make up the bulk of the mythology behind the show. it's inexcusable.",
"you make promises to the audience early on in narratives when you introduce higher overarching concepts and story elements. it's not something anyone says explicitly but that's what keeps people engaged. you can go anywhere with that but you have to address it in some way that is Ultimately satisfying to the audience. the contrast with how things are introduced versus how they ended up is exactly where my problem with it is. you have to engage at roughly the same level at the start and the end and frankly I don't think they even come close.",
"you really don't seem to understand. The problem isn't that God did it, the problem is that you're promised a better explanation that never seems to arrive. God can do it and that would be fine but you can't completely end a narrative based on that statement alone, but that's what they did.",
"Lol, yeah.... This scene is near the end of the show, and just seeing this alone spoils so many things, haaha.",
"You gonna let like the last episod ruin the entire series? That's on you, man. \n\nAlso, I personally enjoyed the ending. People always want everything tied up in a neat little bow, but that's just now how life goes. Some questions go unanswered. As for the \"god\" thing, in case you missed it, a major theme of the show is theology. Religion plays a huge role in this show, and if that's not for you, that's fine, but it should hardly have come as a surprise, given that its creator was religious *and* how its a major theme throughout the show.",
"Very common filming style for the time. Think 24.\n\nIf you love sci-fi, BSG is a must-watch, regardless. It still holds up incredibly well.",
"> I mean.....the entire show is largely based on mormon theology?\n\nYes, and theology is a major theme since literally the very first episode. If people thought religion/god wasn't going to play a big role in the ending, they weren't paying attention.",
"Where exactly were we promised anything? By one of the characters? They're fallible creatures trying to make the best of the circumstances they're in.",
"Eh, not exactly. I mean, yeah, the premise is that robots have taken over but it's a lot deeper than that. There are major themes in politics, theology, and humanity. It's a drama, not an action film (although there are certainly some cool space battles).",
"that's how stories fundamentally function.",
"Do they? Because sometimes the point of a story is subverting traditional expectations.",
"I dunno I feel like this clip was kind of a big spoiler hahaha",
"It’s a huge spoiler, lol. Still worth the watch though, if you like sci-fi",
"> As such, one of the main early tension points in BSG ends up being who is really human \n\nActually it's pretty easy to determine, all you gotta do is shag them and their spine lights right up under the skin.",
"Wait a second...\n\nDoes that mean we just have to assume the Final Five programmed in an aversion to certain sexual positions to keep their sleeper agents under wraps?",
"I guess 🤷♀️ \nAlso ceiling mirrors and having the lights off.",
">Tweak the temperature, or the pressure, or the composition, add one single additional gas that we aren't evolved for -- and woops, suddenly we keel over and die an extremely horrific, painful death.\n\nNot quite. We only need the oxygen in the air. Remove anything other than oxygen, and replace it with argon or any other \"noble\" or inert element, and we're fine. Hell it doesn't have to be inert, you could replace any of those with helium and as long as we were getting enough oxygen the only way we'd know is by our voices changing.",
"Looks like I hit a nerve!",
"Well I thought it was like real world religion. Many people talk about it like it's real, but of course it's not.",
"I found the combat to be pretty mindless to be honest. Granted I didn't play multiplayer against humans but the singleplayer and AI fights can almost always be won by using a fleet with the most Vipers possible. Doing this by spamming either battlestars or carriers just works too well.",
"It wouldn't be you though would it. I've thought a lot about this. It would be a perfect copy of you, friends and relatives wouldn't know the difference. But YOU won't experience it. \n\nFor awhile I thought eventually we could download ourselves in the future and live forever type deal. But then it hit me, it wouldn't be ME. \n\nI guess you can enter the argument that everytime you fall asleep there isn't any proof that the person who woke up isn't you with all your memories intact. \n\nIF you were able to transplant your brain into a different substrate in it's whole form, I'd argue that your consciousness would move with the brain.\n\nBut downloading and copying information is just that. A copy.",
"you can't have it both ways. you can't say you have a plan, imply God and the cylons have some sort of spiritual connection but then clearly illustrate the total lack of a plan or any sort of framework what so ever. you can't have scenes and concepts entirely grounded in reality and science established then hand wave it all at some point either, it's simply poor storytelling. the tones don't work so even if themes were there early on they fall completely flat later. I really enjoyed the beginning of the show cause I wanted the cylons spiritually tied in to things and explored but it never was.",
"Scifi dealing with deep questions society must ask itself but does not.",
"boomer is so hot",
"Well in a minor degree I got - psychology technology and cognition ([https://sites.google.com/site/mineurphiteco/](https://sites.google.com/site/mineurphiteco/)) I learnt only one thing : there is no difference between a \\*perfect\\* copy and the real thing. (To be totally honest, the sentence is that there is no difference between \"being something\" and \"perfectly pretending being something\").\n\nIf the copy is \\*perfect\\*, there is no way even the subject will know there is a difference (because it is \\*perfect\\*, remember ?)\n\nDo you know about the fork() function in the C language ? '[https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/fork-system-call/](https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/fork-system-call/) ) It duplicates everything in a process. So much that after the fork() call, the program itself does not know if he is running the original thread or the new thread. He has to look up the return of the fork() to know.\n\nSo a fork() of the brain, up to and including the fork() itself - you are as much you as before the fork(), with the same thoughts processes, the same memories, the same quirks etc... but a different body. From that point, your experiences will diverge from what you would have done (or not been able to do) with a meat body. But how does that diverge from waking up the day after your wedding, or the day after you lose a limb ? You are still yourself, aren't you ? Your environment has changed (wedding) or your body has been modified (leg amputation) but you are still YOU.\n\nThe key point : there is no difference between \"being something\" and \"perfectly pretending being something\", including to the being who perfectly pretends.\n\nAlso from a philosophical point of view, there is the question of \"intentionnality\" (Brentanno's concept) as the characterisation of the mind events - would a metal brain have it or not ? And if it says it has it - because a meaty brain would say to have it, and the metal brain perfectly pretends - then why would you not trust him to say the truth ? Maybe the internals are the same ? Maybe the outputs only are the same, but how can you distinguish, for they are exaclty identical ?\n\n\\- Metal brain, are you alive ?\n\n\\- Yes - I think, therefore I am\n\nIt's impossible to exclude the possibility that he \\*thinks that he thinks\\* - and that is the definition of an Homo Sapiens Sapiens.\n\nAll that purely theorical until it is proven that the substrate of the mind is only a substrate and can be substituted.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n(Edit) Also Turing's test is about \"pretending\" - how good at pretending to be a human do you need to be before being accepted as such ?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nFrom all that you can infer that my concept of \"human\" is more based upon the thoughts processes than the body itself - someone with a metal leg is a human. Someone with two metal legs ? Still human. Someone with a metallic body, but a meat brain ? Still human. Someone who has a brain that performs as a human one (either is or perfectly pretends <= that part is the most important one) ? Still human.\n\nNow for some real sci-fiction - a human metal brain in a von Neumann probe ? That is the future of humanity.\n\n\\*People of the future, mark my words, and remember me\\* (please duplicate me)",
"truly futuristic transhuman characters would be akin to aliens. and we typically do a horrible job depicting aliens in sci-fi. most are just people with some weird quick and a bunch of stuff glued onto their faces. this keeps production costs down, as well as makes things relatable to the audience. \n\nimagining what a futuristic transhuman person will look like, or act like, or think about is hard. portraying that alien chachter to a modern audience is even harder. so you compromise and decide that the best way for the audience to relate to your protagonist is to make them look just like that popular actor, only in a slick spacesuit, with lights on the inside of the helmet so you can see the emotions on that face that you paid so much for. \n\n introducing your audience to an advanced immortal indestructible galaxy-exploring techno-human paradigm that happens to look like a brick might just be more realistic, but you aren't going to sell many tickets that way.",
"> then there's no need for these neurons ?\n\nThey affect emotions, apparently. They do so in part based on food-related information, but they likely do some not-food-related stuff too, because evolution is messy as heck. The only reason the brain is remotely modular is because neural round-trips are expensive and need to be kept short among stuff that coordinates constantly.",
"With Machine Learning, people train models made of (simplistic) neural network and they do not understand HOW exactly the neural network that is trained for a task works. However these are used daily for important tasks.\n\nThere is no need to understand something to use it (how many people understand how a smartphone really works, down to the electronic level ? not a lot, and certainly not me).\n\nSo I agree with OP here - maybe one day we'll be able to simulate one. Probably we will not understand how we do it.",
">Literally season one has a moment where a scientist who knows that Baltar betrayed humanity is on a ship and about to rat him out and then the ship disappears and Balter is saved so long as he accepts God's love, as according to the woman he sees in his head who claims to be an angel of God. Then Baltar accepts God and the ship comes back empty? It's almost as if it's a miracle and seemingly tangible acts of a higher power had been happening from the very start!\n\nthat is a good point, I remember when that happened. I think the problem I had with that though is that It muddied the waters of the spiritual aspect of everything because they used caprica 6 as the form of God or whatever ghost thing that was communicating with Gaius all this time. if that was just some other person influencing him I would probably agree with you completely, but it being caprica 6 you expect a sort of connection between that apparition and the cylons in general. them being completely independent of one another throws everything out of whack quite a bit for me",
"People trash the old Dune but he was great in it.",
"(bursts out in laughter)",
"Thank you for letting us reminisce. 🙂",
"Lee Adama [delivers a monologue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV-iwiLJ4c8) at the end of season 3 about the trial of a certain character, and it is, in my opinion, the second best monologue ever on TV, behind only Jon Stewart on 9/11.",
"Well... I mean we understand how a neutral network functions and is trained, but we don't logically understand why, once trained, it has the configuration it does, except by saying \"because it works, because the training algorithm caused it to be configured that way\".\n\nIt's an interesting problem.",
"Litterially just thought that my self never got around to watching it. I guess we don't know he is a robot from the start.\n\nPerhaps I shouldn't dig any further into this thread.",
"You’re in a good place to start. Don’t dig any deeper, wait a few days before starting BSG, it’ll all fade dont sweat it. It will still be enjoyable.",
"Ohhh I hope it's on x box?",
"Not sure, I've never been a console guy.",
"It’s not, I looked. Imma getting a PC soon, I’ll try it out then.",
"Thanks. Makes sense. It never affected me, but I understand it's an issue for others.",
"It definitely was. His monologue changed the verdict of the whole trial. It was very emotional.",
"https://youtu.be/WzFMmb86FvY?t=141",
"😂 just so",
"I like this.",
"Hugo Weaving did it better in the Matrix as Agent Smith interrogating Morpheus. Sorry to disagree with popular opinion.",
"What’s the cognitive consequences of damage to gut neurons? \n\nI don’t think there is any, it’s a stretch to say we “think with our entire bodies”?",
"Ooooh that's an interesting one. I'm sure research could be done on behaviour changes in people with got injuries.\n\nOk maybe I was being flippant but the point stands - we're assuming it's all in the brain, which is a big assumption when we start cutting the other bits off. Like the appendix...",
"\"Get off my ship.\"",
"There is one detail being overlooked… the viewpoint of the original that was copied. From that viewpoint, there is certainly a difference.",
"for sure it's likely an edge compute capability... but still, thinking is distributed to some extent, and we don't really understand it well enough to make the assumption only neurons in the brain affect our experience of life. I feel like a lot of my emotions come from my gut.",
"3rd season of Westworld vibes 👁👄👁"
] | 592 |
videos
|
One of Battlestar Galactica's best written monologues, as stunningly acted by the late Dean Stockwell
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkUr99epJh8
|
/r/videos/comments/qq4msb/kanye_west_ending_his_concert_early_when_he/
|
[
"Reddit moment",
"I will never understand how Kanye is apparently so popular. I tried to listen to his music and understand what people see or hear. But everytime he opens his mouth I just hear a subpar rapper. \n\nI mean listen to that video. Does that sound like a talented rapper to anyone? \n\nAnyway, there must be something that I can´t see since success doesn´t fall out of the sky. But it is somewhat of a mystery to me.",
"The fact that anyone would spend a dime seeing this guy live is mind blowing",
"TL;DW: Kanye being Kanye ranting about google and facebook and radio(?) lying to you and .. I don’t even know. Literally says nothing about anything for 17 minutes. Don’t waste your time.",
"He's says \"cuz the show's over\" then *books it.* Hahahahaha. \n\n\"I'm not scared. I'm not scared.\" *scurries off stage*",
"Kanye gas been saying nothing about anything since 1977",
"I just realised Kanye has been present in my consciousness for decades and I don’t know a single one of his songs.",
"Terrible crowd tragedy happens at a rap concert \n\nReddit: Rap sucks",
"Yeah dude i listen to real artists who talk about real life like the beatles",
"HURR DAE KANYE BAD??? The beatles are so much better i have the whole band funko pop collection",
"This but unironically \n\nit’s cute you both think you’re special for not being fans of the most transformational artist of the millennium \n\nI get that you only listen to like 3 bands from the 80s but there really is no debate that kanye is the most influential artist of this generation",
"> Anyway, there must be something that I can´t see since success doesn´t fall out of the sky. \n\nyeah it’s called bad taste",
"Lmao this isn't even about one genre of music being better than another. The dude is off his meds and has been saying weird shit his entire career. It's incredibly sad, actually.",
"So kanye is not your favorite rapper that's fine. But Kanye IS your favorite rappers favorite rapper",
"OPs favorite rapper is Macklemore",
"He's one of the best selling rappers ever. Can you not even comprehend that just because you don't like him, others can like him? You do realize everyone has their own taste...you do right?",
"Man, it's almost like art is subjective.\n\n\n\nNaaaaaaah",
"Ofc. I’m just not used to people going to concerts and paying a lot of money to yell at the guy to stop talking and for him to actually perform some songs",
"Kanye has never really been a strong rapper, but his production is unparalleled in hip-hop imo. MBDTF is one of the greatest albums ever produced.",
"He doesn't do this at every concert...",
"how many times you going to try and make this joke? \n\nat some point ya gota wonder if you're just the guy behind the mask screaming silently ya know?",
"Wel he got into music through production. Just listen to his beats.",
"If Kanye is really eminem’s favorite rapper, then I take everything back.",
"That’s a fair point! Then the credit should go to his producer though (unless Kanye produces his stuff himself).",
"Could you recommend a song of his that showcases his talent best? I mostly was put off by his rapping and maybe didn’t pay enough attention to the rest.",
"who cares what he says he’s the most influential musical artist of the century\n\nAlexa play Devil in a New Dress",
"Bro I like Kanye, I didnt even mean to start this fight in the comments lmao, I was just trying to riff on the trend of videos of concerts ending early",
"i’ll make the joke so long as people like you keep asserting how cool they are because they don’t know hip hop hooligans",
">i’ll make the joke so long as people like you keep asserting how cool they are because they don’t know hip hop hooligans\n\nlmao. you're barking up the wrong tree, i mostly dislike the beetles, and 'off the grid' from Kanye's new album is one of my most played gym songs. \n\nyou've gone full fedora bro, take a vacation from the internet",
"oh I'm not a fan or anything, don't like his rapping much either. I probably don't know any more songs than you. \n\nBut I dunno I guess I liked [runayway](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm5iA4Zupek) and [bittersweet](https://youtu.be/D5Gdu74lA80), beat wise",
"when artists decide end shows like this does the audience get a refund or something or are they sol?",
"Here's a Kanye song I refer to people who aren't as keen on his rapping:\n\n[Only One](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH4oFRgVBA4)",
"Damn you’re off the mid mid mid",
"Oh I thought this was going to be the one where he sits at the piano and plays one note. Over and over and over and over.",
"He does.",
">bad taste\n\nThat’s just Kanye’s balls in your mouth",
"Nah seriously, listen to the guy",
"Maybe there’s no debate in the kayne subreddit you seem to live in but in the real world, there would most definitely be a debate.",
"So he traps people with the promise of hearing more of his music so that he can rant to a captive crowd that is only staying because they want to hear music and have fun, but once he is done talking, he has gotten what he wants and leaves like a spoiled brat.\n\nFuck kanye.",
"https://youtu.be/HAfFfqiYLp0 \nflashing light warning.",
"Kanye sucks.\n\nI respect you more for liking Macklemore.",
"Because he hasn’t made a top tier album since Watch the Throne in 2011. Yeezus, Life of Pablo, Ye, and Donda are just not very good. There’s only a handful of songs I wouldn’t immediately change to something else, and as a rapper, he’s just not as good as his first 4 albums plus Watch the Throne. Ole Ye raps circles around 2021 Ye. Meanwhile he’s completely unhinged in public, and is now a conservative Republican and continues to make mediocre music that gets way more credit that it deserves. He gets the best possible beats, and makes borderline unlistenable music half the time.",
"Not sure why you're being downvoted.\n\nI used to be a fan until he went nuts and married kim kardipshit.",
"lmfao",
"\"<kanye song> instrumental\" gang\n\nI really like [Devil in a new Dress](https://youtu.be/FLRgldD8nkc) and [Use this Gospel (Extended ending loop)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnXdq3SBtMY).",
"i was there. i got a full refund",
"Yea he does",
"Speaking of Flashing Lights... [definitely one of my faves.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ila-hAUXR5U)",
"I am listening to Runaway on a very good pair of speakers as I type this. And it’s excellent. Very well produced and the beat is awesome. Alright, I am starting to get it. Maybe. :)",
"Listening to it as I type this. Not too keen on the autotune but love the message.\n\nWaiting for the beat. Oh, no beat? Okay, I kind of dig it. It shows another side of him. \n\nStill not something that I absolutely love, but I respect it.",
"Okay, point taken! I am starting to understand. Not yet all the way there, but it’s starting.",
"So again, disregard the rapping, just pay attention to the composition of the music (instrumentation, chords, rhythm, tone), because that's where Kanye really stands out:\n\n* [Ultralight Beam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oHdAA3AqnE)\n* [Love Lockdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZwMX6T5Jhk)\n* [Power](https://youtu.be/k8JflBNovLE)\n* [Runaway](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm5iA4Zupek)\n* [Flashing Lights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ila-hAUXR5U)",
"What an irrelevant, silly comment.",
"Listening to it as I type this.\n\nLove the strings. I like the beat, rhianna can’t be beat anyway (insert chris brown joke here). \n\nGotta say, his rap part kind of turned me off again a bit. \n\nIt’s a good song.",
"Why do people still fall for his bullshit?",
"Listening to Devil in a new dress as I type this.\n\nLove the beat. It’s very well produced. Okay yeah, I dig this. I still think that his rapping is the least attractive part of the composition, but it’s a good song.",
"Common Macklemore gotta spice up those disses",
"Who pays to watch Kanye West D:\n\nedit: LUL at West fans downvoting :D",
"Honestly his discography up until MBDTF is pretty top tier, everything after is pretty contentious with some hits and and a load of misses",
"He might be the best selling rapper of all time.\n\nBut that doesn't really matter anymore when he's having a mental breakdown and isn't even performing. Why would someone pay to watch a crazy person rant?",
"kanye used to be good. now he’s too erratic and disorganized to be a competent rapper. not to mention the whole megalomania thing….\n\nbut, kanye stans will do kanye stan shit. y’all are the beyhive of dudes. just absolutely bonkers",
"No shit, really? Can you elaborate?",
"bro the college dropout is absolutely exceptional",
"I was there too, ticketmaster automatically refunded our tickets after a few days.",
"Peak Reddit moment",
"Listening to ultralight beam right now: \n\nLove the intro. Love that soft beat and the lyrics. Background singers kick in. Nice, very nice. Okay, I am starting to get it.\n\nLove lockdown: Love the beat. Not a fan of the autotune, gotta say but that’s subjective. I like it but it didn’t blow me away.\n\nPower: Really nice beat, well produced. The rapping is still something that pulls the whole thing down a bit for me. \n\nRunaway: By far the best yet. The beat is amazing.\n\nFlashing Lights: Didn’t really do much for me. The beat is kind of weak. I don’t know, it didn’t pull me in.\n\nOverall though, thank you for suggestions! I am starting to get it!",
"> Yeezus, Life of Pablo, Ye, and Donda are just not very good.\n\nAll great albums, it's weird that you listed those and not the actual bad album he made (Jesus is King).",
"Here's the instrumental clips of 10 great tracks he did, including Izzo.\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0DzVYX6Yd0",
"He made good beats, thats it. Anything else you think he did is his ego speaking through you which is sad as fuck that you let him do that.",
"> Ole Ye raps circles around 2021\n\ni don’t get how “he used to be better” really contradicts anything i said",
"Yeah man they need to go listen to some real rap like tom macdonald right?",
"Huge L",
"this is the worst thing you can do, enjoy the beats, tune out kanye he has nothing of value you can't get somewhere better.",
"Thank you! I will listen to that!",
"I wish, that would mean i’m Kim K and i’m a billionaire.",
"This is a weird ass take bro. WTT is not a top tier album at all, pretty universally regarded as middling. Meanwhile Yeezus, TLOP, and arguably Ye are pretty routinely ranked as some of the best of the decade.",
"Why in the hell would anyone want to be in the presence of this sociopath.",
"I'm not a musician but apparently his album 808s and heartbreak is an album that musicians really connect to and appreciate. I don't hear music the same way so I just don't dig it but apparently a lot of his music has that kind of appeal. Same with the band Rush. I don't get it, every musician friend I have goes buttfuck for Rush but to me they just sound like a mediocre rock band.",
"Tell me when the second coming of Jesus fixes his ego and is universally liked, then we'll talk about \"most transformational artist of the millennium\" until then I'd argue he should just make beats and shut the hell up because every time he gets on stage to interrupt an award show to tell everyone who he think should have won, his skills as a producer matter less and less.",
"I only listen to real rappers like logic 🤓",
"real nathan’s in the house tonight",
"I’ve never listened to Jesus is King. And I’ve given his past 4/5 albums a chance, and I can’t get into them and don’t think it’s particularly good music. He’s just a worse rapper, rapping over better beats than his early stuff.",
"Meaning someone who hasn’t put out a decent album in a decade isn’t as influential as you think. He just gets credits for beats he doesn’t make, because he gets first dibs",
"Ranked by who? Those albums have almost no relevance in pop culture",
"I know this will be crushing to you, but they’re divorced. She’s sucking someone else’s balls now. Maybe she saw the declining quality of his music and jumped ship before it got any worse.",
"> who hasn’t put out a decent album in a decade\n\nwe’re talking about kanye west not eminem\n\n> He just gets credits for beats he doesn’t make, because he gets first dibs\n\nYou think kanye doesn’t make his own beats..? There’s hundreds of hours of footage of him working on things in the studio. Are you trolling or?\n\nHe literally started his career as a producer and only became a successful rapper because of the connections he made as a producer",
"Start at square 1. Listen to The College Dropout. He did the production almost entirely by himself, it showcases his lyrical abilities pretty damn well, and you get to see his cocky sense of humor before he went completely off the rails with fame and narcissism. \n\nFrom there, if you want more of something similar, listen to Late Registration. If you want something totally different, listen to 808s and Heartbreak. 808s is full of autotune (as a stylistic choice) and minimalist electronic beats and it really set the blueprint for hip hop throughout the 2010s. \n\nIf 808s isn't your speed, listen to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (the whole thing! trust!). MBDTF is usually considered Kanye's magnum opus. In stark contrast to 808s, the production is lush, sprawling and maximalist. The whole album is like an analysis of all the trappings of fame and fortune beyond belief, and in a way it's about Kanye struggling to find his humanity through all the chaos of celebrity. \n\nUltimately, if you want to appreciate Kanye, you really need to listen to at least one of those albums cover to cover. Listening to one song to try to understand why people love him would be like listening to Another Brick In The Wall Pt. 1 and not understanding what all the fuss over The Wall is about.",
"Except there are two people on this exact comment thread who were at this show and they both said they got refunds\n\nAnd literally none of what you said is true\n\nSoooooo… what?",
"There are some people's singing/rapping that I don't like either. So, I can totally understand.",
"> Maybe she saw the declining quality of his music and jumped ship before it got any worse.\n\nfr she probably moved on to some real musicians who make real music like 311 and 21 pilots",
"TLOP is a very well regarded album. The Others maybe not, but TLOP is a very bad example for your argument.",
"Lol u must be the first person I've seen on reddit who is critical of rap/rapper who has actually reacted to some of the suggestions made to them.",
"Dude made one good album almost 20 years ago. Time to let him go.",
"Ye has solid rapping on it, it's just very short. I get not liking the rapping on Yeezus or Donda but Ye and Pablo are good.",
"I know what you mean.\n\nIn the end it’s a very subjective thing with what you connect to in music.",
"I mean no disrespect... its a genuine question, why were you there? \n\n\nI saw Kanye on the college drop out tour and it was excellent, but after the last couple years, as a once die hard Kanye fan, I just don't see why people want to get listen to a crazy man rant for 20 minutes... we got public transit for that.\n\nEdit: wow I ask one question to a person and everyone else answers. I guess I should have expected that.",
"Props for listening to all the suggestions and trying to learn about something.",
"Nice, thanks for the reactions!\n\nDefinitely agree with your take on Love Lockdown. It's a particular interesting one because the album it came from, 808s and Heartbreak, is widely regarded by fans as one of his best, and is where he gained a cult following, but because it came from an era where autotune was super fashionable, it really hasn't aged well, imo.\n\nIf you liked Runaway, the whole My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy album is full of really interesting beats. Another fave from that one is [Lost in the World](https://youtu.be/1nawiZsuFI8).\n\nI'm actually not a huge Kanye fan, but MBDTF is easily a top-twenty album for me.",
"Jesus Walks, Homecoming, Stronger, Touch the sky, all good solid songs\n\n \nIf you want to get a real feel of the man, watch his performance with Taylor Swift at the VMA 2009, a real class act",
"Thank you!! I will do that!",
"Lol. Check his Ticketmaster ratings. He's one of the highest rated performers on there.",
"You might say that I went “The Extra Mile” :)\n\nSeriously though, I’d love to like his stuff, I just never got it. I am still not there yet, but I got an idea.",
"Ye I would concede is the weakest of the three, but Yeezus and TLOP have massive pop culture influence. Yeezus paved the way for a whole new era of abrasive and dissonant production in pop and hip hop. I think it's fair to say artists like JPEGmafia, 100 Gecs, even Charlie XCX's recent output, would not be here if not for Yeezus. \n\nTLOP is iconic because it was one of the first digital albums that highlighted the major differences between digital platforms and physical media with regards to the mutability of online art. He changed the album art, the track order, added and subtracted tracks, edited existing tracks, all while the album was supposedly \"released\". I'm not saying that's some kind of \"artistic genius\" thing for Kanye to do, I'm just pointing out that the album and its rollout are culturally relevant and important *because* of what it represents for the future of music releases. \n\nRegardless of what your opinion is of Kanye, \"almost no relevance in pop culture\" is an *absolutely absurd* take. Look at like, any media outlet's opinion on the album. [Pitchfork](https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18172-kanye-west-yeezus/) lauded it. [The New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/24/black-noise) lauded it. [TIME magazine](https://entertainment.time.com/2013/06/20/kanye-wests-yeezus-is-manic-melancholy-and-brilliant/) lauded it. [Rolling Stone](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/best-albums-of-all-time-1062063/kanye-west-yeezus-3-1062964/) lists it on the greatest 500 albums of all time. Just look at the [Accolades section of the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeezus#Accolades) for Christ's sake.",
"I actually like several songs from that album, I suppose I shouldn’t have included that album in my list.",
"I think Pablo is decent, I’ll give it another listen along with Ye",
"He's quite obviously in decline. He's put out some good stuff but his best days are way behind him. It's sad what's happened to him but his mental health decline is on full display.",
"Hang on a minute, let me pull something else outta my ass...",
"Thank you! I will listen to Lost in the World! \n\nI already got a good idea about what he can do and why people like him, thanks to you and others who have suggested songs!",
"It's almost as if he's mentally ill.",
"No problem! I always appreciate someone willing to challenge their opinions. At the end of the day nobody's forcing you to like Kanye though, different strokes for different folks",
"It's hilarious that this is used as a counter-example when this is just Kanye being Kanye and has nothing to do with safety or him caring about anyone.\n\nBut hey. Concert videos being stopped. So hot right now.\n\nEdit: Nevermind, I can't read titles.",
"If you’re looking for his best rapping, check out “Gorgeous” ft Raekwon. I would recommend reading the lyrics along with it. \n\n“Blood on the Leaves” is excellent also",
"love to see it. Love lockdown and Runaway are in my top kanye playlist.",
"😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂👍",
"Loooool, yeah. Sadly that was my first introduction to Kanye.",
"He has the strongest catalogue in hip hop",
"Man, I just looked at all your comments responding to everyone who gave you suggestions, props for going through every single one! 🙌",
"Thank you!! I will check that out!",
"LOL..he's mad because Pete Davidson is giving it better to Kim in all the ways Pete's been blessed with in ways that Kanye can't fathom.",
"Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. I really haven’t been all that up to date on rap music and wasn’t aware of any of the artists you listed. I guess I was thinking that from my perspective, Ye’s first 4/5 albums were played nonstop on the radio and in movies/tv, and was everywhere. Music in the late 2000s and early 2010s was obviously heavily influenced by Ye, there’s no denying that. I just have to go out of my way to listen to a new Ye song, and haven’t noticed his influence in mainstream rap artists that have broken through in the past few years. But I’m obviously not an expert. I just think Ye fans can be in their own world and not realize that a large part of the country hasn’t heard anything he’s put out in years",
"> He's quite obviously in decline.\n\nwow i never realized that you have to continually drop a magnum opus in order to be considered influential. The beatles haven’t dropped an album at all in decades, i guess they just suck. \n\n> He's put out some good stuff but his best days are way behind him.\n\nhe didn’t put out ‘some good stuff’, he dropped 6+ classic albums. 808s and heartbreak is pretty much responsible for the birth of melodic trap. \n\n> sad what's happened to him but his mental health decline is on full display.\n\nmental health decline is accurate",
"Humans = insects\n\nHow revealing",
"I think OP is just taking the opportunity to make fun of Kanye for doing Kanye shit.",
"You should try the whole Kids See Ghost album. Very left for Kanye.",
"\"He's a Jackass...\"\n\n\\-Obama",
"Because Kanye is one of the greatest artists of all time? His catalogue is A1. It’s a privilege to hear him rant. Name one genius that aint crazy.\n\nEdit: The downvotes aren’t a surprise, i just know ya’ll have enjoyed a track Kanye produced or had direct influence on without you even knowing. Ignorance is bliss though.",
"WE GET IT REDDIT, EVERY ARTIST OTHER THAN TRAVIS SCOTT HAS SHOWN HUMANITY WHEN SOMEONE IN THE CROWD IS IN DANGER.\n\nCAN WE PLEASE GO BACK TO NORMAL FUCKING CONTENT??",
"Thanks man! I think it would be dishonest to not at least try to get it. And I am starting too.",
"I think I get what you're trying to say.\n\nHe's a moron who thinks he smart but can't actually articulate a single coherent sentence to express his feelings, but he's the greatest genius known to man by his account. \n\nAnyone who declares themselves to be the smartest is always a dipshit. kanye and trump personify this better than anyone.",
"According to Kanye fans, sure. You have to pretend a lot of the greats don't exist to say that.",
">Because Kanye is one of the greatest artists of all time?\n\nJesus I can't believe people are still telling themselves this.",
"Kanye ain't a genius. He's the emperor in his new clothes and you are one of the people that can't see that bitch is in his underwear.",
"That's fair, you're totally right that lots of Kanye fans are living in their own little world where he's the greatest of all time and nobody can come close. Sorry for getting all worked up, I can obviously be a bit of a fanboy at times as well! It's just a bit frustrating to see lots of people on reddit are very quick to dismiss somebody when all they're known for is their antics and media missteps. Kanye is a shithead for doing stuff like ranting at his audience for 17 minutes, but I still think his music is valuable and he's an important artist for this era. Even outside of hip hop, he's very well regarded as an artist if not as a person.",
"Who’s catalogue of albums would you say is better? We’re talking total volume of work",
"Dudes lyrics aren't very good, but his ability to compose a song is fantastic.",
"Probably cheaper than paying chargeback fees.",
">Because Kanye is one of the greatest artists of all time\n\nHe certainly nailed Bohemian Rhapsody! /s",
"Guy drank the kanye koolaid",
"I don't think it's being used as an example of anything. I think it's being posted for lulz. The title literally reads like an Onion headline.",
"Dude sounds like he's in the middle of a psychosis \n[https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/what-is-psychosis](https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/what-is-psychosis)",
"Yeah that shit is freely available on the street of any CBD.",
"who is more influential post 2000? I really cannot think of a singular artist who has had more of an effect on the music landscape as a whole. You don’t have to like him, but seriously, who?",
"Rush is Rock with too many notes",
"Seriously",
"Agreed - kanye makes music that slaps and is responsible for the 808 making it’s way into hip hop while the beatles sang song about wanting to hold someone’s hand. Not the same at all",
"oh I thought its someone who just couldn't type English properly. It makes sense now",
"okay, who is more influential than kanye west post year 2000?",
"It's definitely time to take a break from Reddit bro.",
"You’re right - i’m gonna throw on some metallica and masturbate in the mirror (my uniqueness of not liking rap turns me on)",
"I think most people would agree he’s one of the best rap artists ever. But every time he does something stupid in public, or doesn’t pay his employees, or says he’s the best of all time, everybody dislikes him a little more",
"I got coffee this morning with my mom, haven't seen her in months. First thing I had to tell her, is that I'm just gonna let Yay be Yay. I ain't clowning around no more. It's 2021. Let. Yay. Be. Yay.",
"Sometimes I wonder why I'm still here.",
"I hate Rush as a whole but 2112 speaks to my soul",
"i have no idea who that is. i assume he’s some lame white guy? it’s like y’all read from a script. \n\ni’ll advocate for kanye’s talent in his earlier years, but he hasn’t made a listenable album in a decade man.",
"yo when I saw him say \"OBAMA WASN'T ALLOWED TO DO -THIS- : WAHASUHUSAUUEUEHFAUHAU\" i lost my fucking mind \n\nhere https://youtu.be/bkUr99epJh8?t=412",
"That list would be annoyingly long to type out. Hip hop existed before 2003. You should check some of it out. You might like it.",
"A lot of dick heads in the comments",
"7:24\n\nWhat is this dudes obsession with Beyonce?",
"haha, good satire. very good...satire...yes?",
"I'm working on pitching a Kanye Anime where only he can see interdimensional Bears that are in a war with the good ones and the bad ones. The Good Bears discover that they can power their mecha armor suits with the power of his music. But then he discovers the Good Bears have a bad side, so he steals some of the Armour for himself. That's season 1.",
"His ability to go on a bpd schizophrenic rant is practically unrivaled except by that homeless dude on pcp that stands on the corner of 42nd.",
"At least it seems like we're finally almost done with the concert videos. Like holy shit, Travis Scott sucks, we get it.",
"Literally not true lol, he’s made multiple good albums over his career, including 808s which has influenced the entire new wave of hip hop.",
"That sounds terrible, also maybe adult swim would still do it.",
"I dont think people fall for it as much as you think they do",
"Yes, I do. It's effectively curation.\n\nI disagree with you that it's not composition, however.",
"Kanye is up there, but looking beyond just North America I would give it to Daft Punk. Modern Pop Music is really just living in the house they built.",
"Dude, Kanye is nuts, crazy and all around a mentally ill person.\n\nHe still is arguably the most influential artist of our time when it comes to how he helped shape the genre of rap. \n\nI don't like him, but to deny his talent and influence is just ignorance.",
"I've not heard a single Kanye song that intrigued me. I don't listen to much hip hop (a little Aesop Rock here and there) but I respect a good hook and beat, and I just haven't heard a single one from him that came across as anything special. I really just don't get it at all.",
"Or maybe he’s a good performer and people like to see him?",
"OP is murdering with that title..",
"People fucking died it’s not about Travis Scott lmao that’s the main issue.",
"> He still is arguably the most influential artist of our time when it comes to how he helped shape the genre of rap.\n\nYou’re right, that is arguable. The most influential artist of our time? Get the fuck out of here with that.",
"What do you mean, “still”? This was 5 years ago.",
"I was at the show when he professed his political aspirations before this one.\n\nAt the time I blamed exhaustion because he added a whole bunch of dates after finishing. (I think he kept performing in LA until it stopped selling out.)\n\nPlus I had an inkling that he might not perform like this ever again. And I was right.\n\nI wish I made the time to go see DMX 2 years ago. I gotta go see the rest of my top 5 because they're all getting old.",
">You’re right, that is arguable. The most influential artist of our time? Get the fuck out of here with that.\n\nNo offense, but this is wildly regarded by fact by rappers, and music experts on the subject.\n\nThe genre changed around him. Especially on his first few albums. And the guy's a mastermind behind the scenes. \n\nHe's still very mentally ill and not a good person but that doesn't take away from his influence.",
"He was, he went into treatment 2 days later.\n\nEDIT: correction, he cancelled his tour 2 days later and went into treatment sometime shortly after.",
"Are you saying people no longer fall for his bullshit?",
"Usually it’s in the contract that they need to be on stage a minimum amount of time. It’s why Dave Chappelle sat on stage for thirty minutes in Connecticut before he walked off. Nobody got refunds.",
"Let’s put him in live television and be offended by what he says",
"Now THAT'S a challenge right there...",
"You’re willfully ignorant then. Songs like “Hey Mama” and “Only one” are beautiful regardless of your musical taste.",
"Facts",
"No, because Eminem is the best selling musical artist of the past 2 decades.\n\nKanye is influential to alot of hip-hop artists and newer artists in general of the past decade. But that's music, with his mental issues aside.",
"It is worth noting here that this tour was cut short because Kanye had a mental breakdown. He did more and more of these rants as time went on, getting increasingly paranoid and disjointed, and ended up being hospitalized.\n\nI’m not defending everything the man has ever said or done here but he was legitimately not a well man at this point.",
"\"Shut up and rap!\"",
"bohemian rhapsody is far from even queens best song, wouldnt put it in the top 20 songs released that year\n\nthe way redditors jerk it off like it’s the greatest song of all time will forever confuse me",
"i mean opinions of his music notwithstanding i think his comments about slavery were too far for most people.",
"[ **Jump to 07:24 @** Referenced Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkUr99epJh8&t=0h7m24s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Dellan dela Cruz, Video Popularity: 80.76%, Video Length: [17:06])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@07:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkUr99epJh8&t=0h7m19s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"If this is just a low key way to ask for music recommendations, I'll help you out. If you're only interested in solo artists only for now, check out Nas, Eminem, Tech N9ne, Dr. Dre, and Jay-Z",
"If you're making fun of that clip of him singing it really badly then listen to Everything, he's featured and sings very well in it",
"Personally I think Eminem is a better rapper than Kanye anyways. I just meant if he was, it wouldn't matter.",
"I can't stand Kanye, on or off his meds. Dude's a narcissistic piece of shit. Throw mental illness that he refuses to seek help for on top of that and you get a little man with a God complex surrounded by enablers. I've only ever heard a few songs of his that I can tolerate, but I in no way see anything even remotely genius about him.",
"So then it's even more shitty that people are using the tragedy to get karma for posting the same 'random performer #30277 stopped playing because someone was in danger' videos for days on end?",
"Norman Borlaug",
"I went to his Saint Pablo tour and three of his Sunday Services. Say what you want about his mental health but he's at the absolute top of creating incredible theatrical live performances.",
"This is from the Pablo tour in 2016. This was really his turning point.\n\nI went to one of the concerts on this tour. Even though he stayed the whole time, he spent 45min ranting about the most random stuff. I was basically watching an artist I liked fall off in front of me. It's pretty sad thinking about how much he has changed.",
"Rants and that tour aside, he was making the same genius declarations long before that. \n\nI'm not some average hater. I'm a person who has bought a few early kanye albums and am still a fan of his early stuff. That being said, he's objectively a moron with a god complex.",
"The biggest one is in the video 😂",
"I'd still go see Kanye if he came to town. He's one of my all time favorites. Bob Dylan was extremely hit or miss at his shows but I still saw him north of 10 times. People get way too hung up on expecting artists they like to be someone they aren't. Not knowing which Kanye or Dylan you're gonna get is half the intrigue with eccentric artists.",
">I just meant if he was, it wouldn't matter.\n\nYeah 100% agreed.",
"Yet Kanye's a self-made millionaire and you're on the internet crying about him.",
"I don't agree, but we are talking about opinions. Besides, 808s was almost 14 years ago. Kanye himself grew up copying someone. Hes not the first or last to influence a new wave. I'm not saying everything he does is trash. I'm saying only Kanye and his fanboys have the balls to say he's the goat. The last decade really dropped his GPA as far as albums that will be remembered forever.",
"Just to suffer?",
"Who has time to scroll a 17min video for a 5 second clip...",
"If you were not even even aware Kanye produces the vast majority of his music, and got his start by producing for Jay-Z and others, then you have not \"tried to listen to his music and understand what people hear\" as you claim.",
"Yep you got me wow you're so smart",
"Such a waste of something that could be so dope.",
"All falls down is a poem. Lyrically brilliant.",
"> kanye ... is responsible for the 808 making it’s way into hip hop\n\nYou mean Afrika Bambaataa, Run DMC, and The Beasties among many others who used it for over a decade before Kanye's first album. Perhaps your hatred of the Beatles comes from you not knowing any music history.\n\nhttps://www.theverge.com/2017/4/3/15162488/roland-tr-808-music-drum-machine-revolutionized-music",
"You know how the news cycle goes. People have short term memories so having #30277 keeps it alive and hopefully relevant by keeping engagement. We already forgot about the January 6th insurrection so I’m surprised and impressed they kept it up for this long.",
"Somebody being a millionaire means they're immune to criticism?\n\nI've got no dog in this fight. I love some of Kanye's music, I also think he's a wackadoo who needs help instead of a spotlight.",
"Case closed.\n\nAll millionaires are geniuses and should never be questioned. \n\nYou seem like you've got kanye level smarts too. Must be nice.",
"If Pete stops taking his medication, buys a MAGA hat, and starts talking about how slavery was a choice, we'll know it was Kim all along.",
"Oh I’m not denying that! I’m a fan too but he’s beyond arrogant and I’ve lost a ton of respect for him since the Trump stuff. Your comment just sounded like you were saying this rant was a grift or something like that, whereas he was genuinely having a manic episode.",
"It's might be way more time than you'll want to spend listening to something about Kanye but if you want a solid breakdown of why My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy gets the praise it does give season 2 of [Dissect](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2xfMwhKeMjMGYM4rtO6RiO?si=hfEZ29xNTtyo-XsqlRdfhg&nd=1) a shot. \n\nMBDTF isn't my favorite album of his like it is for a lot of people, for me that's 808s and Heartbreak, but it's in my top 3.",
"That stupid prick tried to fuck up the presidential elections by pulling left votes.\n\nKanye is an uncle tom and it's not his meds that are the problem, he's just an asshole.\n\nEdit: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/06/instagram-posts/yes-trump-lawyer-helped-kanye-west-try-get-wiscons/\n\nThere ya go. Kanye was working with trump to try to fuck the elections. \n\nY’all keep sucking his dick though",
"Found Kanye's throwaway account",
"Billionaire, you’ve never listened to yeezus and if you did you wouldn’t get it.",
"Bro Nas only got one album that touches any of Kanye's classics lets be real here. Tech N9ne doesn't have any. Eminem and Jay Z are the only ones in here with as large of a catalogue that comes close.",
"What do you mean “fall for?”",
"That's irrelevant so long as he's going around using his money to cause damage and be a jackass. What am I supposed to feel bad for the mentally ill millionaire who refuses to get help?",
"The days of there being dozens of interesting sites really are over. It sucks. All of the sites I frequented 10 years ago are gone or terrible now.",
"Nobody here is saying rap sucks, but Kanye does. Tbh I'm an old guy who remembers NWA and Tupac, so this rich boy auto tune rap these days is just trash to me.",
"Every fucking day",
"I heard he slaps.",
"Replace millionaire with \"grammy-winner\", \"successful entrepreneur\", etc. It's not about the money but the accomplishments.\n\nIs he intellectually brilliant? Clearly not. But he's clearly made numerous life and career decisions that have been quite brilliant and a neck-beard on the internet calling him a dip-shit is laughable.",
"that really depends on the work. There's a reason people made fun of right wingers [when they started to walk away from Rage Against the Machine.](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/rage-against-machine-right-wing-conservatives-politics-boycott-tom-morello-a9558241.html)\n\nIt's fair imho, to a certain extent. Neither people nor art exist in a vacuum",
"as seen by this video",
"One day I'll wake up and cry about everyone more successful than me, like you do. They're all dip-shits and we're the real geniuses after all, right?",
"So I just listened to Hey Mama. It's not a bad song. It's appealing and easy to listen to. Musically, though, it's nothing special at all. I do like some of the instrumentation with the music box sound and the little synth addition towards the end. \n\nBut NOTHING about this says genius to me in any way. It's perfectly fine music, but nothing I would laud as somehow groundbreaking.",
"Think he is smart or entertaining, give him money for subpar experiences, etc.",
"I had a ticket to this show and couldn't go cuz I couldn't make it over the pass due to the heavy snow.. I was pretty bummed about having to eat the cost of floor seats for nothing. Imagine my excitement when I got a refund the next day.",
"Billionaire* who wasnt born into it, literally started from the bottom, literally had people tell him for years \"just stick to the beats man\" that he could never be a 'rapper' or 'designer' or any of his dreams. The he went and accomplished then anyway. \n\nNot saying it's all perfect but I can see where you might get a chip on your shoulder about anyone else telling you how to live. Everybody had the answers for him, and they were all dead wrong. \n\n\"Wait til I get my money right \"",
"Kanye is not a rapper.",
"Shock horror people have different opinions to you.",
"Because his performances are amazing. Like there's honestly not a single artist I've gone to that I could possibly compare him to.\n\nYes during the TLOP tour, some people got unlucky and he either didn't show up or he did some shit like this. But I think those people got their money back, and if you did get get an actual performance, it'll be an experience you'll never forget.\n\nReally just a very easy sale. I'm not sure if he'll continue performing and if it'll be as good as back then. But I'm for sure going to be there if he does.",
"It's a fairly widely agreed upon thing amongst general music critics, experts, artists and hip-hop fans. It's not just something people tell themselves.",
"So that means his music is now magically bad?",
"/r/kanyehate",
"They were/are close friends.",
"Peak racism to think a minority will vote for another minority just because both are minorities. \n\nAlso you're [white](https://www.reddit.com/r/microgrowery/comments/mi92pj/double_grape_in_dwc/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)\n\nSo calm down with the racism bud.",
"Kanye is to hip hop what L. Ron Hubbard was to science fiction. A cult is a cult. Dude could fart into a microphone for 30 minutes and they'd still be on here furiously down voting criticism.",
"Theres a movie about that :/ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MRuS3dxKK9U",
"Lmao most modern rappers point to Kanye as an influence.",
"No, it was bad the whole time.",
"This video seems to feature VERY little rapping tho lol. I think you're off base. I've never gotten the impression that the Reddit crowd hates rap, is that a thing?",
"Lol fuck RAtM, bunch of hypocrites",
"Why can’t a successful person also be an idiot? There are loads of completely moronic athletes who got ridiculously wealthy because they were really good at kicking someones ass or shooting an object on goal. Then they automatically gather groups of people who make good business decisions with and for them. Impressive sure but they can still be extremely idiotic people.",
"It was lmao, I did not intend for this to turn into an insufferable le defeners vs kanye fans debate",
"Lol Reddit using astroworld tragedy as a way to shit on rap. We get it not every musician can be as good as Avril Lavigne or nirvana",
"Im guessing you dont like much rap. Kanye will be remembered over most of your favorite musicians.",
"How long did he \"perform\"?",
"lmao",
"It’s weird bro, every Redditor who hates Kanye has bought his early stuff and gave him a proper shot",
"You listen to rap? I only listen to real music like Sublime 🤓",
"If you think it’s produced poorly you might not know what good sound production is.",
"Good lord. White people calling a poc an \" Uncle Tom\" is mad cringe",
"The fact that the point of the joke flew over everyone's head here has left me a little disillusioned with mankind. If you interpreted this as a soapbox for your kanye fawning *or* insufferable le defener \"music was so much better when we struck animal hide drums with leg bones\" whining, go outside and touch some grass lmao",
"There are many other videos out there of Kanye putting on a great show.",
"“Rich boy auto tune rap”\n\nWhich artists are you specifically referring to?",
"Best part of the song is Rick Ross’ verse honestly. It’s so good",
"Seeing him on Joe Rogan was fucking WEIRD. First, because Joe himself has changed dramatically (I only tuned in because of Kanye) and he used to talk a ton of shit about Kanye so I thought he might press him a tiny bit but he didn't at all... and hey I can understand that a bit, whatever.\n\nKanye himself was just... off\n\nand also I really don't understand Kanye's fascination with Kid Cudi as an artist. I obviously understand everybody has their own taste and opinion but he constantly puts Kid Cudi on his top lists of artists and I haven't really felt it while listening to Kid Cudi. Even their joint album.... ehh\n\nand I LOVE hip hop, LOVE Kanye's earlier work (Donda... please) LOVE Yeezus...\n\nanyway, $4 a pound.",
"I don’t know what I just watched but I did enjoy it",
"https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/network",
"He’s put out multiple classic albums",
"So you’re saying that it is inarguable now? I don’t think that you know what words mean.",
"💀",
"The internet completely changed the music industry in a way that makes sales a poor metric for who was better. He's like the third top selling hip hop artist based on total album sales but none of his albums have broken into the top twenty best selling hip hop albums of all time. It looks a lot like a quantity over quality situation.",
"Damn that’s crazy considering Kanye has one of the best discographies of any musician.",
"I’ve seen him multiple times including this tour and he never has when I saw him. In fact, he never spoke for the donda show",
"Its really a damn shame. I regard My beautiful dark twisted fantasy as one of the best albums of all time but his new stuff is just so bad. However, people seem to love it so perhaps it is I, who is out of touch.",
"At the time for a rap artist it was groundbreaking though lol. That’s the point.",
"is Kanye the most overrated artist ever?",
">he’s a tool who is really good at music\n\nI mean, if bad music is your thing I guess?",
"his comments:\n\n>When you hear about slavery for 400 years ... For 400 years? That sounds like a choice. You were there for 400 years and it's all of y'all. It's like we're mentally imprisoned.\n\nhere's Kanye, in a since-deleted tweet, clarifying for himself:\n\n>My point is for us to have stayed in that position even though the numbers were on our side means that we were mentally enslaved\n\n\nthere's literally no mention of the 4th amendment at all.",
"I can’t stand him but this is kind of a dumb question. People like him so they go see him.",
"He's bipolar, needs to take his meds",
"You are replying to my comment which answers that? He is not idiotically fumbling his way to 20+ grammys and a nearly billion dollar clothing line among other business ventures. \n\nElon musk say plenty of stupid stuff on twitter, is he also an idiot?",
"Its weird that he's talking to all these celebrities, but... none of them are there. He's talking about people that he thinks wronged him. Only his fans are there... supporting him, it's so weird!\n\nHe could just upload these rants to youtube or something. Well... I guess we just did that for him.",
"Art is subjective and all but I think you should give Nas another listen.",
"That is a great title, OP. Tyvm for a hearty laugh.",
"Remember when this place had videos of interesting things?",
"Cause you suck.",
"I just need Apollo to add a feature to filter stuff like you can on the desktop website. \n\nThese stupid self righteous loser redditors hop on anything that’ll make them feel the slightest bit superior to anyone. \n\nLook at the comments in any thread about covid, anything about internet drama, anything about a celebrity, etc. \n\nI’m just here for the niche, curated subreddits but somehow this keeps getting past all the unsubscriptions. And I can literally see some fat little IT admin on the other side of the keyboard reading the threads which are basically rehashed jokes and puns",
"Oh man, that's good he got treatment, but bad it got to this point.",
">why don’t mentally ill people just get help lmao",
"Not at all, most of Reddit is very embracing of rap music, especially the folks over at r/hiphopheads",
"Reddit moment is whining about a dumb video with a joke title.",
"Expand?",
"We should bring back Digg lol. (Yes I know they tried again and still managed to fuck it up twice—I’m only here because digg got shitty a decade ago and lo and behold here we are today. At least I make $70/hr to read this stupid shit)",
"You seem to know a fair bit about him on the production standpoint. I remember reading once that his techs or engineers (other people that assist in the studio) don't get enough credit in the creative process. There was one name in particular that maybe has been with Kanye for a while or something, that the person writing about it felt was a big either influence or collaborative force.\n\nIts possible that started after College Dropout? I also am not really sure what it means... like does Kanye make the actual beats and the engineers ... alter it? I mean I really know nothing about it but the point seemed to be this: Kanye is definitely very talented/visionary/etc. when it comes to music production but the days of him doing everything himself are long gone.",
"Except he does. Ask anyone in the hip-hop community. \n\nKanye has arguably the most critically acclaimed hip-hop album **ever** (My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy) & arguably the most *iconic* & *influential* discography in hip hop top-to-bottom. \n\nThis is common knowledge in the hip-hop community",
"I think the person before you confuses complexity in music with high audio quality.",
"No, mob must feed, need outrage. Must cancel to feed.",
"Must of struggled pretty hard if you are still this confused about what he said.",
"13 albums, 12 of which are loved by most, one of the best rap albums of all time and just dropped a potential AOTY 20 years into his career, with no signs of slowing down. It’s for sure up there",
"I've listened to plenty of Nas saying he only has one great album is basically the popular opinion at this point and I agree with it. Nothing else in his catalogue really comes close to Illmatic. What do you think does? Stillmatic? It was written? Even if you count all three he's still not touching Kanye's catalogue. \n\nThen you have Kanye who has gone on 3 album runs over and over. This is why people will say Kanye has a much better catalogue because his output is more consistently good way fewer misses.",
"It's fucking weird af. And the moronic idea that Black people were gonna vote for Ye just because he's black is peak stupidity. A lot of r/politics shit.",
"I’m pretty sure nobody in this thread actually read the post title",
"Devil in a New Dress has my favorite Rick Ross verses of all time. He makes that song for me.",
"Their whole shtick is about socialism, Marxism, and being anti-capitalist but they sell insanely overpriced tickets for these massive stadium shows (think hundreds of dollars for a ticket) and each member is obscenely rich, making fuck tons of money off of merchandise sales and marketing.\n\nThey are the definition of the “Machine”",
"I mean, some people just enjoy his music? You don’t have to think the guy is a paragon of virtue to think that he’s made some good tunes and want to see him live. The video isn’t exactly a representative sample of a live Kanye show. I’m pretty sure he was institutionalized shortly after this show due to a mental breakdown.",
"“i don’t like this man so i’m gonna say he hasn’t said anything important even though he had an entire sunday service memorial for the victims of what happened at astrofest on sunday” you’re a dick",
"13th amendment",
"This over-exhausted opinion of ‘I don’t get why he’s a genius’ has gone on so long and repeated so many times it’s now just a siren for ‘I’m out of the loop’.\n\nHate him or love him, he’s influence on music is unparalleled in today’s era. It’s been like that way for a while now and denying it either makes you look ignorant or stupid. He is no angel but he’s good at his craft.",
"Even Chris Brown has won a grammy and bunch of different awards but he’s also a proven asshole of a woman beater. Yet he still continues to make millions with his brand ane huge fanbase who doesn’t seem to give a shit. Being famous and succcessful doesn’t automatically make you a great or intelligent person who is immune to criticim on a personal level.",
"Kanye like a lot of other people believe cudi was the frontman on the change in hip hop culture of being hard to being open about emotions and talking about feelings. And it’s not just Kanye. There are a lot of artists who express the same sentiment about Cudi.",
"Ah, that's what I was wondering. Thanks for the answer!",
"His earlier works are very good but most of his latter works including Donda feels labored. It doesn't even sound like he himself is having fun or enjoying the music he's doing.",
"Yeah that would be the mental illness part of what I was talking about, ie my whole comment. Mentally ill people sometimes do things that don’t make much rational sense.",
"I saw him for free about 10 years ago. Front row seats before the pit. He took a solid 10 minute break to tell everyone why he was just like Jesus Christ, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs over and over. My girlfriend and I saw this as our cue to exit. No ragerts.",
"I think after his very first tour Kanye started to do these rants and it was generally just accepted that this was apart of a Kanye concert. When you went to see Kanye, it was expected to see him go on these rants for awhile. His rants then got longer and longer over the years. It wasn't until Pablo that at least very publicly, we started to see him have a very serious mental issue. As mental illnesses go, they progressively get worse if left untreated and compounded by his megalomaniac behavior.",
"And wears a mask to disguise himself as a black man.",
"Yup. Half the comments in the Travis Scott posts descend to “Who even likes this c(rap) anyways, it’s just mumbling, how can anyone like autotune” as if that has anything to do with the negligence of the Astroworld show.",
"Are you seriously talking shit on Runaway?",
"I can understand that he has some talent and some people enjoy his music. But that’s different than paying gobs of money for a live concert experience that he fails at. He hasn’t actually gotten better. Just more ranty.",
"Alright pal. The fact you are comparing Kanye wearing a MAGA hat a going on some rants prior to being admitted to the hospital to Chris Brown and his domestic abuse tells me you've lost the plot.",
"I’m 50/50 on logic",
"I think they're shtick is promoting these ideologies within the system they currently exist in. It's the same argument that people say about Bernie having money or Hasan being rich. We live within this capitalist system and you have to operate within it even if you systematically disagree with it. Does that excuse their ticket prices? Fuck no, but artists like to get paid for their work. But for the most part I think they're doing the best they can to popularize these ideas while getting rich at the same time. A little disingenuous nowadays, wonder what early RATM would think of later RATM.",
"Oh it is far more than just right wingers who feel RatM are nothing but hypocrites and liars. They are so far up daddy goverments ass they might as well come out for concerts in \"OBEY\" shirts.",
"Did you guys realize you can change your settings in Spotify so that he doesn’t show up? New thing I learned this week. God send.",
"imo Cudi outshines Ye, really weird for me understanding his fame",
"He’s been a shithead for years. It’s okay if it doesn’t bother you but he’s rubbed people the wrong way for awhile now.",
"I guess I can’t speak to that. I saw him perform at a festival in 2016 or 2017 and it was a solid, if not straightforward performance. Idk what his more recent shows have been like.",
"Who said I’m comparin them as equals? You kept bringing some musical awards to this argument like they’re some proof that a person can’t be a little wacko in the head. That was the point.. but seems it was too hard to understand.",
"One of the few examples of ticketmaster acting like a decent company lol",
"i wasn't about them being hypocritical, it was literally about their music/lyrics taken at face value\n\n>They are so far up daddy goverments ass they might as well come out for concerts in \"OBEY\" shirts.\n\nyou got an example? I'm genuinely open, all the other guy could come up with was \"their tickets are really expensive\" which... yeah, wow how hypocritical for them to criticize wars and explotation of the masses and then turn around and charge hundreds of dollars for a ticket... \n\n-e- ...and then donate a lot of the profits: \n\n>For their 2020 reunion tour, the band announced all profits from their first three shows—in El Paso, Texas; Las Cruces, New Mexico; and Glendale, Arizona—would be donated to immigrant rights organizations in the USA. For subsequent shows, 10% of the base ticket price and 100% of proceeds after fees and base ticket price were reserved for charities local to each city they were performing in.[174][175]",
"yeah because him making a feel good album dedicated to his mom is peak not having fun or enjoying the music",
"Kinda just making the point for him.",
"The realest answer. There's so much out there on the internet but nothing seems as comprehensive as reddit, which is a shame. I miss having like 6-7 sites I'd visit back in the mid 2000s",
"His beats are great. His lyrics are not.",
"pretty sure becoming wealthy off your own labor/without exploiting anyone is one of the main draws of socialism.\n\nNot saying the music industry is really the best, or even that these guys are 100% guilt free. I just think it isn't hypocritical when an anti-capitalist makes a lot of money with their own art.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nedit: I'm a fool for wasting my time talking to people who argue in bad faith, learn from me and don't engage with people with young accounts saying dumb shit on popular subs.",
"> self-made\n\nlol",
"Ok, but not really.",
"Have you listened to that album? It isn't a good album. \n\nHis song \"Hey Mama\" on Late Registration is better than anything on Donda.",
"Like I said, art is subjective. There is a reason my original post didn't say \"These artists are better than Kanye\" because that's not an argument I'm interested in having. The \"____ is the goat\" debates are reductive and pointless.",
"I'm a few minutes in and it just seems like a ranty manic episode centered totally around him. Funny how everyone in the comments are acting like he's being profound or something when he's not really saying much of anything, or at least hasn't so far.",
"Yeah nothing hypocritical about “raging” against capitalism while making yourself untold millions of dollars off overpriced stadium tour tickets and merchandise sales 🙄",
"kanye during this era of music either ended the concert early or didn’t show up at all. most concerts were about 3-5 songs before he started ranting about dumb shit",
"Well, for one there name is RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE, But any mandates or restrictions that have been announced they have bent over backwards to champion and enforce. Regardless of your political views (Although theirs is obvious) That by itself is enough for them to be labeled hypocrites. They need to change the name to Rage against ONE SIDE of the machine.",
"reddit moment this is getting so downvoted. Kanye west makes OBJECTIVELY some of the best rap music of all time. Yes I know music is subjective, but there are some universal truths in music. If you don't see it in Kanye's music it's because you don't really understand music",
"Kanye fans are just the absolute worst.",
"Well, he made some good music between his stupid antics.",
"Sometimes a band comes before him buts its on the same ticket. There's also journalists who are paid to witness every single word just in case.",
"were talking about a multi millionaire, possibly billionaire, choosing not to take care of himself. \n\nhe has every single resource anyone could ever possibly need, and refuses to acknowledge the fact that he is a delusional asshole. \n\nthat is so fuckin far from telling the average mentally ill person to fix it.",
"hahaha ok if that's all you got\n\na rage by any other name",
"Ok but I'm asking you what you consider the best Nas albums since you think he's one of the best\n\nI'm also not claiming anyone is the GOAT? You were replying to a comment asking who had a stronger discography than Kanye and I responded saying I (and the majority of others) don't think Nas' discography is that strong certainly no where near Kanye's. You were literally in a conversation about it already trying to act smug af honestly and now are also trying to act smug af again",
"what bullshit do you think people are falling for lol",
"Ranting and stopping your show early. Just generally being a whiny twatwaffle.",
"Yea, the response i expected. Walking hypocrites but hey, they donated some money to charity and support the leftist echochamber much like the very site we are on, so im sure its all fine as far as youre concerned lol",
"No, it's the children who are wrong.",
"And at least Kanye's rant inspired [my favorite song from Bo Burnham](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYy0o-J0x20&ab_channel=boburnham)",
"Seen him at Glastonbury and honestly to god his ego is embarrassing, constantly stopping the song to hear the crowd singing, then he cuts the music dissapears for 15 minutes and comes back on a cherry picker. Awful everything this guy, shame cos his early stuff was decent",
"Kid Cudi was a huge development in hip hop. MotM is a complete departure in sound and subject from virtually every other hip hop album at the time. I mean, he basically made a hip hop album about mental health issues. And of course Kanye, who has his own struggles with mental health is going appreciate that.",
"The guy above you isn’t wrong. Runaway is one of his best songs critically and pretty universally loved.",
"I saw him on this tour when it came to Seattle and the show was incredible ¯\\\\_(ツ)_/¯",
"do you have any comments on how wrong you are?",
"I am not a Kanye fan but I would see him for sure",
"hmm maybe the respect he has of numerous other successful artists might mean his music is good tho but idk im just an insect ig",
"Why did it cut off? I wanted to see the crowd's reaction to him leaving them. I wonder how many fans he lost that night?\n\nEdit: I meant how many of the fans in attendance did he lose as fans that night. It was a rhetorical question I was just wondering aloud.",
"lol yeah bc bpd = sociopathy",
"Based on what? Definitely not based on sales. Kanye's music will not stand the test of time. There's nothing that Kanye has ever done that a high school sophomore with a Casio and a laptop couldn't do. Calling Kanye one of the best musicians of all time is like calling my 4 year old niece who makes mudpies the best baker of all time.",
"He's deranged. But there's still more than enough suckers out there.",
"I agree with you. That’s exactly what I mean. Quit comparing Travis to others and start worrying about how you are going to fix the situation in the future. Awareness is needed on the issue, however. No one deserves to literally be crushed alive. So make sure it never happens again. Not about Travis or any other performer.",
"not an opinion, widely accepted that he influenced the electronic autotune generation of the early 2010s with 808's but hey, feel free to ignore that. let alone ignoring the fact that mbdtf exists but yeah he's a shit artist and idk why anyone listens to him /s",
"What's your fav by him? I very recently listened, or I guess tried to listen, to Man on the Moon (the first one, I believe?) for at least the second time and, yeah, outside of that one hit song he had I didn't really care for it all that much. \n\nI think a big part of it is his voice, the music is fine, good even, but his voice isn't too appealing and the rhymes were forgettable as well.",
"Kid Cudi was the predecessor of all the recent emoish rap you hear today. Probably a top 5 most influential rapper on the 2010s.",
"Username checks out",
"Kanye sorta paved the way for him in that regard too. His music has always delved into his personal problems in a way not many rappers were doing back in the 2000s. I thought their collab album was great too.",
"Thanks. I'm confused by the reddit title. Is /u/WingedBeing trying to make this an Onion article?",
"you sound like your entire skeletal system is made up of biased bones",
"I'll give it another spin, I gotta be honest I didn't get that it was about mental health. I think its becuase I just don't remember any \"bars\" in that album to make it stand out. \n\nI respect what he tried to do and I'm happy people like it but idk, there was just something missing. \n\nI will listen again, maybe more attentively (not while working, etc.)",
"Yeah.. those [hypocritical capitalists giving all of that expensive ticket money to charity](http://rockandrollgarage.com/rage-against-the-machine-will-donate-profits-from-all-shows-to-charity/) - what Assholes.",
"Go listen to yeezus if you think Kanye’s music won’t stand the test of time. Album made in 2013 that sounds like it could’ve been made yesterday. And what, because he doesn’t play a guitar or a piano he’s not talented? It takes talent to say “hey this static wave would sound good if we added some drums and some high hats at this part”. You sound ignorant as hell man.",
"Even if they were mentally enslaved (reminder: they were physically chained up) that still doesn't make it a choice. IIRC he did say something about repealing the 13th amendment though. I kinda figure he deliberately said something provocative with an underlying element of truth because he thrives on the controversy.",
">refuses to acknowledge the fact that he is a delusional asshole.\n\nYou have to see the contradiction here",
"Sorry if you have already, haven't read all the comments, but listen to his My Dark Twisted Fantasy album. It's where Runaway is from. It showcases what Kanye can do when he focuses.",
"who's falling for it. dude literally went and got help like two shows after this, majority of people who like kanye are perfectly capable of accepting that dude was off his rocker. He's had plenty of good performances since then. Donda release was banger, his sunday services are banger. They include him trying to get to a better place (his way is through religion, not mine but I'm not gonna judge) but not much ranting as far as I've ever seen lol",
"Not much of an “era of music,” sounds like.",
"An entire service? wow, that is like, so important… /s",
"Tom Morello has a net worth of 30 million dollars\n\nSelling anti-capitalist rhetoric is apparently a great way to get filthy rich",
"Depends on the subreddit. I’ve definitely seen racist comments pop out when a rapper is under fire. Not in places like /r/HipHopHeads but more places like /r/music and other bigger subreddits.",
"yeah, i guess you could say its not important that a celebrity who wasn’t even at the event had a human reaction to the tragic loss of lives while the two celebrities who preformed acted like it was a minor inconvenience.",
"Holy fuck shut the fuck up nerd",
"yeah, watched his release life stream, he put a lot of soul into that. yeah hey mama is fantastic, but your point wasnt the quality of the album, don't change the subject, you were trying to say that it was labored and it 'doesn't even sound like he himself is having fun or enjoying the music he's doing'. Plenty of good songs on donda but that's my opinion. Personally I very much enjoy at the very least Come to Life, Believe What I Say, 24, Donda, Pure Souls, and Jail. should check out his jam sessions when he was making the album with mike dean and co",
"They have taken advantage of the free capitalist market to line their pockets for years. Anti-capitalist rhetoric has been extremely profitable for Tom Morello.",
"I think its most about how he changed the scene, I think he was the first guy to talk about his feelings in rap instead of boasting, some people really identify with that, he's like that akira movie, a lot people watched it and feel like there's nothing to it (idk compared to like, end of evangelion etc), because he kinda of the first one of his kind, like the vanilla people get their shit from and them add some of their own flavor. I listening to all his albums recently and find some news songs, specially in Indicud.\n\n>I think a big part of it is his voice, the music is fine, good even, but his voice isn't too appealing and the rhymes were forgettable as well.\n\nPeople really like his vocals, if u wanna see him flow a little listen to Cold Blooded from Indicud, he's mad cause people say he's only good for the hook, I been listening to this in repeat for days xd\n\nIn this video Ye is talking about how Cudi never gets on the radio even though he has material for it, like they select others artist work that is not on the same level but still hits the radio because of the label/artist",
"I assume you’re referring to Mike Dean. I don’t think he came into the picture until Graduation. Though he has a lot of help, like a lot of artists, he still is the main driving force behind his beats, production, and writing.",
"Off the top of my head, Soundtrack 2 my Life, Day n Nite, and Pursuit of Happiness are all heavily about dealing with depression and self medication. Pretty good tracks too.",
"Stick to your point. Are you saying he had fun making the album or he didn't because it was an album dedicated to the mom? \n\nIf we are all be objective Donda is nowhere as good as just the song Hey Mama. Just that 1 song. And it's nowhere as good as his earlier albums.",
"It's not a shame, the music only happens because of the state of the brain. It's one or the other unfortunately. \n\nSource: Claims he can only create things without medication.",
"I have listened to it. I've listened to all kinds of music, whether for pleasure or while obtaining a degree in Music Education. I have no issue with hip hop, electronica, or any other \"non guitar or piano\" music. Musical tastes, like preferences in any art medium, are subjective. That being said, Kanye is a goon. He is not a savant, a prodigy, or anything remotely related to a musical genius. He's a sad, angry little man who likes to scream into a microphone.",
"Sorry, nice try but no, his ranting and antics didn’t stop there. Suddenly getting real weird with religion isn’t usually a sign of stability. It’s a cloak you hide in.",
"I made one comment before responding to you, that's not a conversation. I'm being \"smug af\" with you because you're voicing your opinions as if they represent anyone besides yourself. Additionally, I never said you were wrong or the previous poster was wrong so I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive about this. I used slightly more words to say \"everyone is entitled to an opinion.\"",
"I mean idk I’d personally think being [here](https://youtu.be/SkV9dsm6Bq4) or [here](https://youtu.be/fL1i6qJWO38) would be pretty lit",
"I know what you mean. I used to actually browse the web before Reddit. Now I just scroll because anything I may find browsing has likely already been posted here, with significant context added and similar or relevant content in the comments section.\n\nI scoffed when I first read the tagline, but the more you use this site, the more it really does become 'The Front Page of The Internet\"",
"Reddit once again showing us how completely rational they are when it comes to regarding somebody having a mental breakdown.\n\nStay classy, Redditors.",
"you keep saying they're hypocrites, but you're incredibly vague as to what they did/say that's actually at odds, because you don't even understand what they're advocating.\n\noh they charge huge prices, what hypocrits, because socialism is um everythings free and uh marx\n\nBeing critical of capitalism doesn't mean you automatically reject the whole system and it doesn't automatically make you a communist, marxist or socialist. Also these three things are different.",
"Like his buddy The Donald, Kanye heard someone say they liked Cudi so he's in a hissy fit",
"Actually it was an RNC idea and he went along with it. Easily proven on google. \n\nDo you understand not all ideas come from /r/politics?",
"My understanding is that it was the venue’s decision to refund everyone (Ticketmaster was only involved because the venue uses them for ticketing). They were probably just as pissed off about what happened as the crowd was.",
"Sorry my bad I should have clarified Kanye isn't literally Hitler in my post for you brain dead fans. I made an assumption that it would've been obvious I don't mean that, but I guess I was wrong.",
"Concerts are pretty stupid",
"It was actually a plan put forth by the RNC and their lawyers which Kanye went along with. \n\nThis is all easily verifiable.",
"> At least I make $70/hr to read this stupid shit\n\nHow does one accomplish this? I make zero dollars an hour reading this stuff. Was someone suppose to be paying me? Who do I talk to about backpay?",
"Yeah someone died at Big Day Out in Australia years ago because of people rushing between the two main stages and they made a bunch of changes to the crowd management. Stuff should definitely be regulated for any events with large crowds.",
"Lmao brain dead fans, you’re so high and mighty because you don’t like a musical artist, please my good sir give me more of your knowledge about shit since i’m obviously brain dead because i don’t jump on hate wagons to seem cool online",
"Just off MOTM, Cudi Zone and Pursuit of Happiness are my favorites. He's not one to spit a bunch of complex rhymes, but what he says really speaks to me. \"… In my spare time, punching walls, fucking up my hand \nI know that shit sound super cray but if you had my life you'd understand\"",
"+1",
"I was replying to your off topic point but yeah sure I'm the one not sticking to my point. Keep straying from the topic lol. I made my point and I never veered from it bro, it's like you're ignoring everything I'm saying. Once again, not talking about the quality of the album, I replied to your off topic comment because YOU brought it up. I feel like comparing an entire album to one masterpiece of a song is a bit of a logical fallacy by itself. I'm saying he both had fun making it and most certainly enjoyed his own music, it being dedicated to his mom is just a little piece out of plenty of evidence demonstrating that.",
"Being mentally ill isn't an excuse to be an asshole though. Plenty of people manage their mental illness and aren't Dick's",
"Being mentally ill isn't an excuse to be an asshole",
"It almost sounds like mental illness would have some sort of underlying influence on a persons’ decision making and behaviour. Fascinating stuff, man.",
"This is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen. A delusional person doesn't realize they're delusional. Money is a speed bump compared to the mountain that is realizing you need help. Personally, I think the state needs to step in for people like him.\n\nIn response to u/zaphod_beeble_bro, I personally think if Kanye is doing bad things because of his psychosis, we shouldn't make any moral judgments against him. Make moral judgments against anyone enabling him. And obviously, if someone with psychosis is violent you're allowed to defend yourself.\n\nAn analogous example would be a 5-year-old killing someone with a construction crane. The 5-year-old has no idea what they're doing, it's the person who let them on the crane who's at fault.",
"\"it's all just a money game they get paid to play certain things it's all about making money\" (paraphrased) is some real /r/im14andthisisdeep shit. At least give it a little bit of [substance](https://youtu.be/YonS9_QJbp8).",
"I mean it's such a cop-out, you know damn well you can't point to anything specific, so you literally point at how their name generally leans left and you don't even point at anything they actually do, except making money. It's just not allowed to have anything more than the bare minimum for survival and not sound like ayn rand\n\n\n-e- \nlike:\n\n\n> so im sure its all fine as far as youre concerned\n\nit's fucking funny, because you said \"I bet you're fine with all this just because they donate some money and support the left\" but you fail to define \"all this\" you haven't mentioned a single thing that I'm supposedly fine with and shouldn't be\n\n-e2- OK my bad you actually did name things: They bent over and enforced \"any\" (read: covid) restrictions. Ok I can see where this is coming from, sorry I do believe in discourse, but I personally just don't have the strength to talk to people like you anymore, so I'm out of here.",
"Him just slowly getting pulled back in while he stands over the crowd quietly always cracks me up. I hope Kanye gets it together someday.",
"Dude is obviously mentally ill, but ended up in super stardom despite that.\n\nI have a hunch that Kim K specifically targeted him as her ticket into true \"celeb royalty\" because she knew he was an easy mark.",
"Never said he is stable at any point in my comment, I said that it is his attempt to get to a better place. That being said religion has helped plenty of people become stable individuals, would you consider them just hiding in a cloak as well? And my bad, are we talking about people out in the world falling for 'his bullshit' or are we talking about his journey through mental illness?",
"Found an original joke",
"\\*finally closes reddit, gets up, walks around ready to greet the day\n\n\\*takes out phone \"hmm, I wonder what's on reddit\"",
"Ok",
"Kanye sucks",
"Rap is cool. Kanye sucks though. Overrated.",
"If you're enjoying your craft, you'll make a better album. If your album feels labored it won't be a good album. \n\nI also compared the entire album to his earlier albums. \n\nHey Mama proves that the album doesn't have to be labored to be a dedication. \n\nThe guy is claiming he's christ-like but go on the radio to boast about how he has more money than Just Blaze. That isn't christ-like.",
"Yeah you just don’t like the truth when it makes you uncomfortable mate",
"Yes, I would. \n\nPoint is, he’s still ranty and obnoxious and I’m not sure why people want to roll the dice with that kind of a show. Like I said: he has some talent musically, but his rants are just masturbatory emptiness that some delusional people seem to confuse with genius.",
"I don't really fault him with making money providing a service. If that service is providing entertainment and education about societal issues - even better. If he also uses his fame and money to actually try to improve the world rather than just buying bigger houses and bigger boats, than I'm not going to begrudge the man his success.\n\nThe other alternative is to cry \"hypocrite\" any time somebody who isn't poor tries to call out the bullshit endemic in society - and that's just stupid.",
"It's meant to be a riff on the overwhelming trend of videos of musicians ending concerts trending here",
"No, it is not \"universally\" loved. That's an outrageous claim. He's not a messiah. Have you actually read some of his lyrics? Beyond absurd.",
"Me and the boys used to sing pursuit of happiness SEVERAL TIMES A DAY when we were lockes up in DOC together. It was our mantra.",
"The list would be shorter than this copout response you took the time to type out",
"Sure music is subjective but saying Kanye isn’t talented and saying that any sophomore in highschool with a Casio could do what Kanye does isn’t subjective. He’s a shit person sure but you just sound like a hater.",
"Sounds like MC Chris but on a much larger scale.",
"Mate anyone who is worth 30 million dollars *because of* the fruits of capitalism is a full blown capitalist.",
"Ignore these other people. It's okay to have sympathy and empathy for someone with a mental illness, but having mental illness does not absolve them from their actions (or lack thereof).",
"Outkast and that's it. I'm dead serious. Eminem fell off after TES, 2pac and Biggie died at their peaks, Nas only just started making good albums again, Jay-Z is up and down with magna carta being extremely down, Kendrick has only made 3 studio albums, J Cole has released some terrible albums, Wutang suffers from inconsistency even including the artists' solo works, Lauryn Hill didn't make enough music, Lil Wayne was consistent but never reached highs like Kanye, and Drake has made mid albums since Views. \n\nKanye is on the lower part of my top 5, but his discography is consistent and he only has one bad album (JIK). His highs are also extremely high as MBDTF, Graduation, and College Dropout are legendary while 808s, Yeezus, and Ye are innovative. The only artist who has put consistently good music out like that is imo Outkast. \n\nStop trying to scapegoat old hip hop like you actually listen to it. I'm sick of people who have heard one fucking song by Mos Def pretending to be the authority of hip hop as if most hip hop fans don't know better than you already. We all listened to Illmatic, Ready to Die, and All Eyez On Me. We know what oldschool hip hop sounds like.",
"You know, the whining about people posting too much of something is worse than the actual posts 10 times out of 10.",
"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qAsHVwl-MU4\n\nIf you don’t like this song you are wrong",
"They're really not. There's so much great live music to see. This is not that. This is ear vomit starting at $150 for nose bleed seats. Stick to the smaller clubs that seat five thousand or less. You can see the band, the sound quality is excellent and tickets are reasonable.",
"I feel like its pretty generally accepted that people regard him as a 'musical genius' more than a literal genius. People that worship him as a god are definitely in the wrong and I'm sad to say that there are those people out there. His rants are more his disorganized attempt at social commentary filtered through the craziness that is kanyes brain and typically if you look at what he's saying you can figure out the point he's trying to make. It's really sad that you consider the thing that helps many people both socially and mentally just a mask/cloak instead of a real solution that helps people make considerable positive life changes. I know that my reality is not the same as anybody else's and I would personally never demean any one persons journey to happiness and stability in life as a 'cloak to hide in'. It's real for them.",
"lol\n\nand a song ain’t an album.",
"Be an engineer, be charismatic, get your work done quickly. \n\nTrust me it’s more a curse than a blessing. I just sit here for like 5-6 hours a day bored on Reddit and other social media platforms it’s mind numbing",
"Yeah bro Robin Williams was a millionaire, why didn't get over his depression? Lol dude, just get over it.",
"I got Patrick Bateman from American psycho vibes from this breakdown. Im not talkin shit... I agree with everything you said.\n\n\"Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?!\" lol",
"I have a friend with schizoaffective disorder which is like severe bipolar with a big helping of psychotic symptoms too. It's every inch the living nightmare that it sounds. They can't work so the state supports them. I can't imagine what they'd do with no meds and, *checks notes*, $1.8 billion but it would make the news anyway. I can tell you that much.",
"Super ignorant take",
"Don’t remember calling him a messiah. Don’t even remember mentioning his lyrics. \n\nthat’s fine you don’t think so but the song did and still does receive universal critical praise.",
"[I don't even know if it's in spite of that or partially because of it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_health) I have no clue if Kim would go through the effort of marrying someone and mothering children for them just for some attempt at more fame. I'm sure the idea that they were on an at least somewhat equal play field power-wise played a part, and maybe the idea of more fame did factor into the relationship, but you're making it sound strictly Machiavellian when that seems like a stretch to me. I would think the manic/depressive episodes and his refusal to take his meds probably just wore her down after a while.",
"WoodyHarrelsonwipingtearswithdollars.gif",
"I dunno, the you tube comments all say he's speaking facts on the industry if you're really *hearing* him. Who should I believe?",
"Nas is my favorite rappers and the whole middle of his career was extremely lackluster. Eminem has been trash since TES. Tech N9ne is a stagnant rapper and has never innovated. Dr Dre is not that good of a rapper and if you actually listened to NWA you'd know that. Jay-Z is fantastic but his discography is inconsistent. \n\nAnd we get it: You're a white kid. Because if you were an actual oldhead, you'd talk about Wutang, Outkast, Talib Kweli, Lauryn Hill, Mos Def, KRS-One, and Rakim all of which I'd put above Tech, Dre, and Eminem. Hell, if you were a real hip hop head you'd mention Jadakiss and how underrated he is.\n\nI've listened to all of these artists and Kanye is still top 5. Says a lot doesn't it?",
"Don't waste your time, this guy is a troll.",
"Rich people bad.",
"Noted. And I counter by saying I think it’s really sad that people wrap themselves in fairy tales to make sense of the world or to justify and forgive their own bad behavior. \n\nI don’t need religion to force me to be a good person. I just do it.",
"I just said he was a stupid prick. \n\nWhat does that have to do with music? Maybe if you screenshot this unnecessary knob slobbing Ye will love you in the ‘gram.",
"Yeah I see your point, and my bad, you did do that. I'm just failing to see what about this album is labored. I've watched videos of him recording the album, I watched all three of his Donda livestreams and from every piece of real evidence I've seen he really enjoyed the process of making this album. Idk bro most christians I see don't act very christ-like, I know he's a pretty mentally unstable individual so I don't doubt he doesn't act very christ-like at times. His most recent interview he hit a blunt and was drinking, that's not very christ-like either but I'm not talking about the mans personal life.",
"Hahahah, this guy is such a fucking clown.",
"I am entitled to bitch about people trying to ratfuck elections. \n\nMaybe Ye should shut the fuck up and stick to mediocre rap and people like me wouldn’t give a shit about him.",
"Imagine thinking that jokes need to be original to be relevant",
">Reddit: Rap sucks\n\n\nThe only one here saying that is you.",
"No, they're still there - people don't visit them though. I think that with time reddit will fall apart, just like the website before reddit",
"“The world is messed up man, money rules everything but I tell it like it is!” Dang I can speak truth too. Crazy",
"This can have the opposite effect though. There's always a karma train on Reddit, and the moment I recognise it, I lose interest. Spamming videos like this just makes people jaded\n\nPersonally when I see 'X stops concert Y reason' I'm like \"oh that's pretty cool\", and then I see the second link to a similar video of the same thing I can't help but think, \"Oh I see what this is... not interested any more\".\n\nThen it finally comes to the Travis Scott shit (a person I'd never heard of before yesterday, so really, they're just giving him free publicity) and I honestly don't actually care any more, to the point where I didn't even bother watching the videos.\n\nI just want people to stop trying to cash in and shut up about it already. Stop cluttering up the front page with this shit, and stop upvoting low effort posts that just bank on the post that came before it.",
"Agreed I'm the same way. I don't think that people should need religion to guide their life and their morals but I also know that not everybody in this world has had the same opportunities as me. I'd much rather everyone be able to go to therapy or counseling to figure out their problems but unfortunately that isn't an option for a lot of people :/ I do agree though, kanye gets obnoxious sometimes, I feel bad for people that went to that concert expecting a real show.",
"Pay more attention to the humming.",
"You ever wait six hours for Kayne to start a set? I have waited six hours for Kayne to start a set. He got on stage played a shitty set for forty minutes and left the stage. Let me tell you I was tripping my balls off on a ten strip I got for the Umphreys show, and I was still pissed. Fuck Kayne, love Bonarroo.",
"I've listened to all of Kanye's work and think that the songs are well produced, he pulls some of the best samples out there, and whoever is featured on his songs usually outshines his rapping. I'm not as much of a fan of his rapping - my least favorite part of a Kanye song is when Kanye comes on. That being said, I enjoy his music - but it does get annoying when I offer my opinion, his stans just go nuts and downvote me to hell because I didn't call him a genius somewhere in my comment. He is good - though I think there are better young artists coming up in the scene that I prefer to him. If I had to give him a score it would be 8/10. Good, but not the best.\n\nI.e. I think people get way too hype on Kanye, who is a good musician, and leave a sour taste in others mouths when they don't love him as much as they do. Stans pile on people. So there is pushback and a lot of hate from the contrarian crowd who are that way because they got hated on at some point. And then people with moderate opinions on him get caught in the cross fire here. You have to either love him or hate him - no in between is allowed it seems.",
"I’m just voicing my opinions too did I say I’m speaking for the public? Saying the what the general popular opinion is is not me saying I’m right but it is saying yeah the majority of people think this way. The second I ask you about your opinions it’s “well it’s all subjective you are basically lower then me for engaging in this discussion because I would never and am above it”. \n\nAlso you were being a little prick to the first guy your responded to while also saying some pretty ridiculous takes.",
"who was really good at music.*\n\nHis latest releases have been straight trash.",
"The giant subreddits are awful for that. All of the default subreddits are full of teenagers that say dumb or offensive shit just for attention.",
"Jamestown was founded in 1607. 400 years of slavery implies it's continued into 2007 at the least. That was his, admittedly poorly explained, point.",
"Greatest artist of his generation.",
"He also stole a sample that was the most popular, catchy part of blame game from Aphex Twin's Avril 14th and never credited or paid him for it\n\nhttps://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/aug/26/aphex-twin-kanye-west-avril-14th-sample-blame-game\n\nI always thought that was bogus",
"Maybe he did have fun recording the album. But that isn't translated to the album. The album sounds gloomy. Every song sounds serious. Every featured artist verse feels like they had to do exactly as they were told by Kanye. \n\nIt feels manufactured. An album dedicated to his mother, I expect a celebration of his mom. And a celebration of life. \n\nI think Donda is one of his weakest albums. It sounds forced, labored, and manufactured.",
"Reddit moment",
"That’s questionable.",
"After confirming someone linked this song I can now leave this thread in peace. All I thought about as soon as I saw the post.",
">I mean no disrespect.\n\nYea right.",
"I think he's speaking less to the mentality of the slaves and more the over all mentality of society of those times. It went on for 400 years because, after a certain amount of time people would stop questioning it and just accept it as the way it is, slavery was just a normal facet of everyday life. Hence the \"mentally enslaved\".\n\nDisclaimer; I'm basing this entirely on the quotes posted in the comment above yours. I'm not a fan of Kanye's music and therefore much of what he says and does is irrelevant to me, so this is the first I've heard of any of this stuff.",
"K. West went full Dumper. I feel sorry for and am disgusted by everyone that gave him money for a concert.",
"you expect people having mental breakdowns to be nice during it? no, they are gonna say some wild, possibly really offensive shit.",
"I'm going to cause an episode until people cheer my shitty opinions. That's right. You have to cheer and validate my opinions.\n\n-Kanye",
"I saw him during the yeezus tour and it was the best concert ive gone to",
"his numbers have actually gone up quite a bit since then.",
"There is a good chance that Kanye enjoys or values being in his \"manic\" state. \n\nIt's hard to treat Bipolar 1 people because if they're manic/hypomanic they feel AWESOME. They feel they have tons of energy, tons of creativity, and they can conquer the world. It might be easier for him to write and produce in this state because his brain is trying to make new and unusual connections. \n\nBecause he has money the obvious problems of being manic/hypomanic (the lack of sleep and eating, the grandiosity, the risk taking behavior, etc) can be compensated for. And especially because OTHER people get rich off him they will cover for him.",
"Poor guy, his mental hit never recovered after his mom passed.\n\nI hope he finds his way back one day.",
"I think 8/10 is pretty charitable. \n\nI would do as a rapper: 5/10\nAs a producer : 9/10\n\nI wish someone would have stopped him from ever picking up a mic and just staying behind the boards.",
"You just did it again but okay.\n\nI also didn't elaborate since it was pretty clear from the beginning that you aren't interested in changing your mind or actually hearing alternate viewpoints.",
">using his money to cause damage and be a jackass\n\nit's a rant at a concert that everyone was refunded for. it isn't really that big of a deal at the end of the day.",
"I'm with you except the Cudi take. I could listen to Reborn for 12 hours straight and still want to hear it again.",
"I'm so fucking happy he made Inside. I remember watching the Make Happy special feeling like that was the last comedy special we were getting from him. \n\nBut what do you know, daddy made us some content after all.",
"Never claimed to be an oldhead and I'm confused why you would think that.\n\nThose are some good recommendations though. I thought about suggesting Immortal Technique, Atmosphere, or Aesop Rock but I didn't want to make my whiteness too obvious.",
"Sort of like saying having dementia isn't an excuse to forget someones name.",
"He's not really dumb, he has bad articulation outside of music. And really Dark Fantasy is his best album",
"Doctors say he’s the illest, cuz he suffers from realness",
"By excusing it, you're enabling it which is one of the main reasons people don't get help for their issues. This isn't just a singular mental breakdown. It's him repeatedly doing this sort of thing and resisting any treatment. It's not an excuse",
"I agree, but it's hard to shine when so many of his albums are bangers tho. I really expected him to have more to say about his mom on this album too. It ranks near the bottom for me personally with a select few songs standing out. He should've given his features more creative freedom too. Definitely one of the more restricted albums he's made. Idk I think this thread just put a lot of shit abt kanye in my mind I wanted to get out, apologies if I came across confrontational.",
"Lol Kanye wishes he could rap like J. Cole or Em.\n\nHe needs to stay the fuck off the mic.",
"I was in a concert where he ended early too a few years ago. Full refund. That's probably why his shitty products are so expensive. Gotta make the money up.",
"That's a false equivalency, but if you want to be an enabler, go ahead",
"One of the worst things I know is to simply go to literally any other website. The popups, the absurd formatting and loading issues, the CONSTANT asking about cookies and permissions, and paywalls.\n\n\nYou know how mad you get when you walk and your headphone cable snags on the door handle? \n\nThat's all websites right now.",
"They're also not billionaires that are surrounded by sycophants and \"yes\" men/women. They all helped create this monster.",
"Boy what a garbage take. Proves you have never listened to his body of work. Kanye will go down in history just like NWA and Tupac.\n\nListen to College Dropout, Late Registration or Graduation. Listen to Flashing Lights. Listen to Say You Will. Listen to Jesus Walks. Listen to Touch the Sky. Listen to All of the Lights. The man is a musical genius. But let's just leave it at musical. I don't want to hear his political takes.",
"I MADE THAT BITCH FAMOUS",
"I get that. But writing off multi-generational brainwashing as a matter of choice is pretty ignorant. It's easy to say \"if I was there I would have stood up and started a slave rebellion\" but realistically, no, you wouldn't have. People nowadays get conditioned into lifestyles and circumstances by much more mundane factors than intergenerational slavery.",
"people with mental illness often have more than one breakdown",
"Did what? I didn’t even say an opinion lol. Saying Nas has a better discog than Kanye IS a pretty out there take you’re gonna need to say what you think is so strong is his discog to back that because like I said the majority opinion is, Nas doesn’t have that many good albums. You’re not wrong for thinking it but when you say something out there you should probably have a reason why. \n\nAnd I would have heard your viewpoints but like I said when I ask you for them you take some sort of perceived moral high ground like you just did again. I asked you point blank before what do you think are good the good Nas albums. I’m starting to think you actually don’t listen to Nas honestly.",
"Exactly my point. What I literally just said.",
"Nope. They would have kept it if they could have.",
"I think you kind of have too. I've never been a fan of Kanye or that genre of music so I don't follow anything he does. I just get highlights like this video I didn't bother watching. He's largely irrelevant to anyone who doesn't or has never listened to his music.\n\nSo I'm not a hater, He seems like a crazy person going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole and I'm more confused than anything as to why people still pay any kind of attention to him. It'd probably do him the world of good (mentally) to just fall off the pop culture/ entertainment grid for a while and just spend a bit of time in obscurity.",
"Some people like things that you don’t. Pretty straightforward, as much as I agree with you…",
">No, it is not \"universally\" loved. That's an outrageous claim.\n\nIt was ranked at number 25 on Rolling Stones' top 500 songs of all time list. It's a very popular song and is mentioned as such very commonly.\n\nJust because you don't like it, doesn't mean other people don't.",
"Reddit is the best source of information about people and events I would never know existed if they didn't constantly complain about them day in and day out for attention",
"^ Spot on. I browsed reddit twice on Sunday. Each time, the front page had about 3 different videos of different artists stopping a concert during an injury. Like -- we get the point, you're just trying to get a quick dopamine boost by hopping on the bandwagon and getting upvotes.\n\nSame thing whenever Keanu is in the news. Or Weird Al. Or Bill Burr. Or whoever the pop culture crowd deems is wholesome and \"spittin' fax\" for that week.",
"What field are you in? If you don't mind my asking. I have a friend who's an engineer and he works insane hours. How do you get 5-6 hours of downtime everyday?\n\nAlso, you could just like... slow your work down if you're that bored. Have you tried books?",
"Used to be good rapper, some of his classic stuff is really great the flow the word play everything.\n\nThe new Kanye is just... Sad \n\nIt happens with a lot of artists though...",
"The comments below that video are so annoying. Just a bunch of people saying, \"Damn this is deep. He's speaking so much truth.\"",
"Guy definitely dances around the hard R when talking about Ye IRL",
"Let him make the beat. Let him write the hook. After that, he can shut the fuck up. Kanye West doesn't need substance, he needs to shut the fuck up.",
"This is the strangest take since my little cousin told me \"water is gay.\"",
"The fact that you can't hear anyone scream this in the audience is baffling.",
"No it isn't and I respect you less as a stranger for saying it is.",
"Thanks. I clicked and saw it was 17+ minutes and was like naw. I'll check the comments first.",
"I’m shocked that many people actually paid to see him.",
"he's a fucking nutjob, what's new? The guy clearly needs a massive amount of professional health and the right balance of serious meds on top of a big slice of humble pie.",
"Most comments on the travis Scott posts are \"I've never even heard of this guy, and I don't plan on it either\" \n\nWhat a hot take. The problem isn't about the music but people can't help but argue mumble crap is shit and Eminem is better on a post about crowd crush",
"lmao the meme in emoji form",
">In fact, he never spoke for the donda show\n\nI don't know if I should drop and thank God, or just call you a liar.",
"humans_were_the_real_virus.jpg",
"Kanye wasn't rich until he started making music.",
"Common Macklemore, the uber-Voltron style rapper that loves black people and gay people.",
"Kanye has never made an album as bad as Revival or 4 your Eyez only and that's just facts. I love J Cole (I saw his show during the off season tour) but the dude has the most inconsistent discography. Cole world was bad, 4 your Eyez was horrendous, born sinner was mid, KOD was ok, Off season was good, FNL was good, and he only has one legendary album in 2014 forest hills drive. \n\nAnd Eminem past TES is genuine garbage.",
"That's not what this is. This is a joke. You should...like...chill.\n\nJesus Christ, like...you had to type that. You put effort into it. You typed it and then hit save. And left it for four hours. Fuuuuck.",
"what a thoughtful dude",
"It's funny you say that he didn't get treatment, because 2 days later he went into treatment. But keep making stuff up I guess",
"You're here telling me the \"majority opinion\" (majority of who? how is this determined?) is that Nas has one good album. From my perspective this is the out there opinion but I'm not claiming that everyone thinks this way. So it should be fairly obvious why some random person insisting \"everyone thinks this\" looks a whole hell of a lot like \"I think this.\"\n\nAt this point, you're acting like I need to answer you like this a fucking poker game and it's time to show my cards.",
"Lol reddit will be over it in like 5 days.",
"He's not writing it off. That's exactly what he means by 'mental slavery' and 'mentally imprisoned'. He's implying that the 'choice' being made, is done so as a result of the brainwashing.\n\nIt *sounds* like a choice, but is ultimately the result of mental slavery.",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBHJkwqmm80",
"He's repeatedly gotten treatment then dropped it. Keep being an enabler I guess",
">Not my opinion, a lot of people are saying it\n\nBoooooo. Stop. Even if dude is being an ass, don't say this.",
"Delete the app. Seriously. Does wonders for your mental well-being.",
"Aaaand comment deleted.",
"A lot of artists I personally like have done crappy things. Kanye just keeps putting himself in the spotlight though. Not to mention he tried to ruin an election to help trump (whether he would have been successful or not), which will put him eternally on my shit list.",
">Kanye is to hip hop what L. Ron Hubbard was to science fiction.\n\nBad at it?\n\n>A cult is a cult.\n\nOh, that part.",
">He's not a messiah.\n\nLiterally the only person to use that word in the whole thread, shadowboxer. And you're picking nits over the statistical fact that not everyone in the world can love that song.\n\nGet a better hobby than being obtuse in Reddit comments.",
"the meds will bring some humble pie with them",
"Same. I have mixed feelings.",
"The one that never truly goes away. Some one died this week. Lets spam every video of them to ever appear on youtube as a tribute.",
"I thought it was clever",
"Those rabbit holes of paranoid propaganda are like crack to these manic depressive types. I'm in no way surprised Kanye turned out like this and became a Trumper.",
"> refuses to acknowledge the fact that he is a delusional asshole.\n\noh. is this part of mental illness?",
"I love that you recite your opinions as simply facts. Kanye hasn't made a single good album since MBDTF and even then he was inconsistent as hell.",
"Apparently, this was from four years ago. He might have been having an episode. What's the point of sharing the video now?",
"Think Cudder suffers from the \"Seinfeld Effect\" these days. Nowadays people watch Seinfeld and think its meh bc they've seen all the tropes before in every other sitcom (friends, himym, etc), but they don't realize at the time they were novel.",
"I was at his St. Pablo tour stop in Chicago right after he got back from Kim being robbed in her hotel room in Paris (which he cancelled the previous 2 stops for to go be with her) and he did a full 90 minute set with no rants. I think he was just tryna respect his hometown and put on the show he promised. A lot of people were disappointed he didn’t do any rants or really much talking between songs. I had a great time.",
"People always excuse bad behavior for good art. Plenty of artists were wife beaters, led zeppelin had a 14 year old groupy tour with them, Chris brown tenderized Rihanna, and I'm sure with enough digging this list is endless. It's all wrong and completely unforgivable, but.. you know... people gonna people",
"Sacramento?",
"I do remember when Day and Nite went big (I don’t think it was the studio version, it was definitely remixed to be club friendly) that some of the lyrics were juxtaposed to the music. “The lonely stoner…” etc",
"Just hit my 13-year mark on here. The only place I've found to go is deeper into Reddit with your subs. I just browse r/all now when I wanna be braindead and keep up with the memes.",
"That's been Kanye's fanbase over the last several years. Just a bunch of people with delusions of grandeur on behalf of him.",
"Because it’s the general consensus? Are you arguing that general consensuses don’t exist? Tell anyone Nas has only one good album they know exactly what one you’re talking about man this isn’t out there at all. If you want something with numbers or something go look at the critical consensus. \n\nIf you say the majority of people like Empire strikes back you’d be right in saying that. It’s not that everyone likes empire strikes back but it’s the general consensus. Is this like an out there concept for you?\n\nI mean you’re the one who was like you don’t want to hear my opinion getting all moody. Generally people go back and forth and explain their reasoning but yours is that one side says something then you try to take a moral high ground. \n\nI know you’re not that into Nas man it’s ok",
"ticketmaster probably keeps their fees. There's probably insurance policies that protect against these things, but for sure someone lost a ton of money.",
"Ok, but they were also physically restrained. And their enslavers were heavily armed, and could call police who could back them up. Even if they had the raw numbers, it's not like they could just coordinate an uprising with a twitter hashtag back in those days. Saying it's a \"choice\" implies there's a ready alternative which there wasn't.",
"What a self-important putz. Cool concert bro.",
"I always thought of Cudi as a rappers musician. Just has a fantastic grasp on the mechanisms of his genres and styles and is able to mold lots of different influences. Not a huge Cudi fan myself. But a big fan of musicians.",
"he was already on a decline in terms of popularity vs her when they got married wasn't he? If anything I felt he was with her to stay relevant to a degree (if we're assuming there was never a romantic relationship there which I think there actually was)",
"Kanye likes butt stuff.",
"Can you elaborate on this? What do you mean by his influence? Like he worked on it and after that it was “fundamentally rewritten” or did Rubin hear whatever Kanye had and went “nah this isn’t it” and then worked on it? \n\nI’m a bit surprised Kanye would let anyone change his stuff but what do I know.",
"Dude getting paid to just browse the Internet all day would be my dream job",
"Ticketmaster doesn't do anything to be decent, they did this because its cheaper.",
"Whenever you see a comment like that, imagine a scrawny white dude in high school who's about to go back to listening to Sabaton or something.",
"But you're on Reddit :D",
"I really am concerned for his mental health though. When he was just on YouTube he was still making the jokes about how much he hates himself and is depressed. At that point I thought it was just his shtick but for me it seems a little worrisome over the last two specials. Idk could just be reading in to his act to much",
"These guys on either side of me...? They're asleep.",
"Whole albums good. So is Donda. So is TLOP. So is MBDTF.",
"[This](https://youtu.be/35DSdw7dHjs) is also great from the movie",
"Thanks for clarifying. Guess it went over my head",
"i’m sure he could shit into a microphone and you’d say it should win album of the year.",
"17 mins of nonsense, dudes brain is long gone.",
"Lol what?",
"One of the most common symptoms of bipolar disorder is resistance to treatment. The same condition that's causing him to rant is also preventing him from taking his meds.",
"Nah Jesus is King was ass. Some of the worst music I’ve heard",
"As someone who on and off listens to rogans podcasts when it's someone I like how has he changed. I haven't noticed much of a difference. Same idiot that only knows about comedy and fighting and avoids confrontation with his guests at all costs.",
"What a saint!",
"> i was there.\n\nBut why?",
"The comments on youtube are hilarious. Calling him a visionary and this moment the \"realest point in hip hop history\"",
"Have you listened to a single Kanye album? \n\nEven if Kanye is not for you, it's easy to understand why Kanye is influential & why his discography is held to high regard in the hip-hop community",
"“The prodigal son, Kid Cudi, has returned” no, he really didn’t lol sorry ye",
"Only if you had sold the tickets and THEN got your refund.",
"I can tell you don't know a single person that suffers from bipolar disorder and I'm happy for you because it's not fun.\n\nI'll never understand why people are so keen on insulting and clowning Kanye for something he can hardly control. Seems like a reddit thing. Calling him a spoiled brat when he's obviously going through a mental breakdown after his wife was just held at gunpoint totally seems like an adult thing to do, I guess",
"Lol its literally the only opinion outside of the hiphop related subs. As soon as anything mentioning a rapper appears on the big subs the comments are a cesspool",
"Joe Rogan never presses anybody important about anything meaningful, he’s kind of a douche.",
"Nah Donda was good.",
"You actually spent money to see him.,...",
"I thought it was obvious and hilarious.",
"Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?",
"I'm in the ticketing industry, for a competitor of Ticketmaster. The decision whether to refund or not falls on the tour promoters, though they may be pressured by the venue or may have made an agreement to refund if an event ends early in their contract.\n\nThe ticketing agency (Ticketmaster in this case) will only be paying out of pocket for refunds that are due to mistakes by them. A common example is when the promoters offer a refund for a limited time and the customer requests it before deadline but the request isn't processed, the promoters won't pay it so the ticketing agency will eat the costs.",
"You literally misquoted every part of my sentence :|",
"Sure there was, and many took that choice, they fought, they ran and sure many died. Those that took the other choice are the reason we have come so far as a society in terms of racial equality. But the problem with systemic aspects of culture is that they are hard to remove when they've been ingrained for so long, it's an uphill struggle with many different aspects constantly at play, which is why that change is still happening today and there is still more to be done until we're truly standing on equal footing.",
"No insurance, but their contract with the promoters probably let's them charge some fees to the promoters if the even ends early.",
"Omg that's funny.",
"Not sure that's how digital ticket transfers work nowadays.",
"From 2003 to 2006 Kim Kardashian was Paris Hilton's intern/assistant.\n\nParis Hilton's sex tape \"1 Night in Paris\" was released (without Paris' consent) in 2004. Paris Hilton would obviously go onto to be even more famous after the release of this tape.\n\nThen in 2007 Kim Kardashian's sex tape was release also allowing for KK fame to grow exponentially.\n\nIs it a coincidence that both of these celebrities worked together, both accidentally had their sex tapes leaked, and both benefited enormously from the release of those tapes (granted with some personal shame / drawbacks as well).\n\nCheck out [American Meme on Netflix](https://www.netflix.com/watch/81003741) for a closer look into the rise of people famous for being famous.",
"Exactly. I don't understand when people refer to \"reddit\" as one hivemind.\n\nHave you seen r/Conservative? The polar opposite of r/news!\n\nYeah, there's big subs, and small subs, but I think it's disingenuous to tar them all with the same brush.\n\nReddit is a big mixed bag. There's some really awful subs, and some very wholesome ones. It's up to the user to decide which subs they want to follow.",
"Go on?",
"What un-checked mental illness looks like.",
"Tres commas",
"what causes psychosis",
"Lol reminded me of Patti Harrison in the investment show sketch from I Think You Should Leave.",
"According to Google they started dating in 2011 or 2012. Nov. 2010 was when My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy released, which is considered his best album and one of the best of the decade. He was still considered a king in music at that time.",
"Very unfortunately, you could not be more wrong.\n\n:(",
"He killed the vibe inside on 2min with his rambling nonsense so even if he tried to perform again the room is dead. He’s insufferable to listen to talk about virtually anything",
"what a delusional POS\n\nEdit - See below - this wasn’t a super nice thing for me to type.",
"When are they finally gonna send this guy in a mental institute?",
"I mean Bo has always been a dark humor guy but the humor part seems to be slowly disappearing. Inside felt like a suicide note at times.",
"the nsfw subs stay on message",
"I’ve never seen one of you out in the wild, I feel honored",
"This was in 2016. Who tf even cares?",
"Um no lmao. \n\nNeither peaked until they got together. \n\nKanye did some of his best work when they were together and in terms of his impact on fashion - all of that happened when they were together",
"im not gonna watch 17 minutes of another egomaniac. what happened?",
"nobody is shitting on rap",
"Who pays money for this garbage?",
"so the interdimensional bears are at war with both the good bears and bad bears is what you're saying?",
"MusicaParaVolar, you know the wine makes you emotional",
"Unless he disagrees with them then he goes off",
"I don't care about either of them in any real way at all. Kanye made some good songs to workout to back in the early 2000's early 2010s and Kim's dad helped get OJ off. \n\nI truly don't care about them, their family, what they wear, what they do, what they say, what they think. Was just making an offhand comment on a random reddit thread :)",
"This title is perfection.",
"Well if you do then don't be so inconsiderate. You wouldn't say this to the face of a person suffering from bipolar disorder",
"It’s easily one of Queen’s best",
"Same, could not name one, or recognize it was him if I heard one.",
"Maybe the sex tape, but the entire relationship being effectively fake seems like a reach. Just about any amount of fame seems to warp people's minds in almost every case, but to go that far seems psychopathic.\n\nI've managed to go this whole life until now saying almost nothing about the Kardashians, by the way. So thanks a lot, jerk :'(",
"I randomly skipped to the part where 7 years later he's still talking about the whole Beonce/Taylor Swift thing.",
"There is literally one good song on that album - the rest is so fucking bad.",
"I love the hypocrisy of Reddit towards mental illness. As soon as there is a person displaying any signs of actual mental illness reddit shits on the person as much as possible. Only the ever so common depression or anxiety is truly the socially acceptable mental illness.",
"Watch The Throne concert was fucking fantastic.",
"I find that kind of... sweet? Only because 808s and Heartbreak was the real album the opened up mainstream hip-hop for more emotional artists like Cudi, yet here's Kanye heaping praise on essentially a protégé.",
"\"The biggest artist in the biggest genre is not musically skilled/talented\" \n\nJust admit you're not comfortable enough with black people to learn about and understand hiphop. \n\nINB4: what do you mean I don't understand rap? I listen to Eminem and Hopsin all the time",
"So talentless, yet so revered - I don't get it. Get off my lawn!",
"I saw Kanye during this tour and again as Kids See Ghosts a couple years later. He was incredible both times and there really wasn't any ranting from what I can remember.",
"\"I'm on my Trump shit again.\"\n\nThat's called a manic episode Kanye.",
"Just a little hair-splitting, but Friends was pretty contemporary with Seinfeld.",
"ty I was looking for such a comment before I listen to this",
"This was from a tour 5 years ago, so before the \"last couple of years\".",
"I mean kanye just makes pop songs right? Don't a ton of people do that? He's just got some narcisistic mental issues and he's married to that weird do nothing overly famous kardashian woman.. so he's easy to put on the front of stupid magazines like insider, that's why he's big\n\nI did like that one blackkk klanzman song though, it sounded purty sick",
"Does anyone have a list of videos like this where artists just go crazy? I would love some more like this. 😂",
"I mean no disrespect, because I love his music, but that line sounds like something I said when I was 12 and trying to be edgy rhyming a ton of easy words.\n\nAgain, not trying to knock anyone's struggles as I myself have suffered tons of depression, just like a lot of other people these days. But I honestly just can't stop laughing at that line and thinking about me saying it into an Xbox live voice chat. I would have probably been impersonating Eminem while I said it.",
"I remember being so excited to see Sly Stone and then he showed up absolutely hammered. He tried to stumble his way through a couple of songs and then just ended up sitting on the front of the stage rambling about nonsense.\n\nAt least he probably woke up and felt ashamed.",
"Thanks, Obama.",
"Also I've come to realize I hated Jesus is King a disproportionate amount due to my own Catholic trauma lol. I still cant stand the lyrical content but Water, On God, God Is, and Selah at least *sound* amazing",
"Kanye puts on amazing concerts",
"Why are you paying a lot of money to go to a concert just to tell the performer to shut up? Like... what did you honestly expect going to his concert.",
"Yeah but then you have his stans who think he invented the 808 kick drum.\n\nI like his music. He's a really great producer, a good rapper (varies based on song).\n\nHis persona has overshadowed his music at this point, though.",
"My apologies I dont think their relationship was fake. To have multiple kids together would be an absurd amount of dedication to the effort.\n\nI was just saying that she followed in the footsteps of her mentor Paris Hilton by releasing a sex tape to boost her celebrity status just like Paris did.",
"I am curious who is footing the bill? Would the venue just have to eat it or are they sending a bill to Kanye?",
"I saw him in 2015 and it was one of the best shows of my life. He knew he was going to get kicked off at 11 so at the end of the show got the Dj to just jump from banging-middle-section-of-hit to banging-middle-section-of-hit to cram as many big ones in as he could and evem rapped all of the Jay-Z sections during the Watch The Throne tracks.\n\nRefused to stop performing until they cut his mic off too. It was legendary.",
"Wish I read this TL;DW. I was hoping he left after 2 minutes and then it was just people storming the stage for 15 minutes.",
"I was at a low point in my life around 2011 and used to go for runs at night and listen to this album and it was honestly cathartic as fuck.",
"Hurr hurr kanye bad gimmie karma",
"Thank you very much. As soon as I saw the 17 minute time limit I fucked off to the comments because no way can I handle 17 minutes of Kanye, let alone two.",
"He probably had a contract that he breached",
"Psychology professors should use this clip to explain what a manic episode looks like.",
"Nah, we just tried that for four years and it was a total shitshow. They aren't self-aware enough to feel shame.",
"Yeah, and these people will still buy the next album....",
"lmao what is this gatepeeking shit being upvoted? Literally reddit moment.",
"Right... and there are no true Scotsmen. Got it.",
"Oh come on, if you dont like rap and the few mainstream rappers you know use autotune, then every single rapper use autotune and that's why it sucks? That's a lame fucking take bro.",
"Dude definitely needs help and has talked about his mental health issues before, but playing internet psychiatrist by linking a webMD page is not the play here.",
"I think it's more likely he just didn't know the exact dates and said a big number tbh. It's not at all obvious he was talking about some metaphorical wage slavery or whatever",
"A commenter on the video states: \"I'm glad he walked off. the people that payed to view his minds projections are booing him because he gave them the full dose.They didn't deserve a show in the first place .\"\n\n&#x200B;\n\nBruh.",
"Moon, jail, hurricane, Jesus lord are all quite good and accessible. I like many more than that, but I just can’t see how you could say any of those 4 are terrible.",
"> It went on for 400 years\n\nSlavery in the Americas lasted for 90 years, he was honestly just vomiting nonsense and you shouldn't read to much into it.",
"Keep judging people who are battling demons 1000 times bigger than anything u will ever face.",
"Actually, most of the US has little to nothing in the world of public transit.",
"Kinda! As I remember it, Friends ended up taking Seinfeld’s slot once it ended. So yes, contemporary in one sense - but it would also make sense that they’d be almost directly derivative.",
"Nobody cares, Kanye",
"So many people commenting on the YouTube page are acting like sheep, acting like he's speaking God's words or something.\n\nDoes media fuck with people and trick people? Yes.\n\nBut a lot of people who yell about this (such as Kanye and these people praising him) tend to be duped by media just the same, because so many people just listen to the shit they want to hear and act like they're somehow smarter.\n\nSo there's literally nothing new or intelligent here in his rant.",
"What I meant was of the people in attendance there. How many said \"fuck this guy\" and quit him.",
"Worth noting that Pursuit of Happiness has two music videos\n\n[This is the originally released one that was supposed to be the \"digestible\" version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xzU9Qqdqww). It still covers the themes of being exhausted of doing the same shit every day at the end, but the main chunk is made to look like a good time and they use the outro to show the emotions it leaves him with.\n\n[This is the version where those themes are addressed for the entire video, but the outro is cut](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_Ys3BO_4M) since it isn't necessary at that point.",
"This comment is a wonderful display of ignorance.",
"manson will pray for them.",
"\"jesus himself took over his body and is speaking through ye!\"",
"I think it’s darkness feels very honest and In my opinion it is probably the best film or piece of art tackling the feelings of the covid era",
"Friends debuted in 1994. Seinfeld finale was in 1998.",
"The amount of people who took my title and this entire post at face value is astounding.",
"I saw Kanye in 2015 and he had a little mini-rant, but it was actually hilarious and awesome. His set was also insane, he would just cut off the song and yell at the DJ to go the next one and complain about having too many hits lol.",
"I agree with all of this.",
"I think first, you need to present the evidence for him being the most influential. I have seen no consensus among music critics that he is. Please enlighten us.",
"this gotta be racist",
"This is nothing new for Kanye. Ask anyone who tried to see him at Bonnaroo. They'll either tell you about the first time when he started his show hours late finally taking stage after 4AM, or the second time where he spent a third of his set ranting about the press.",
"Ah yes Michael Jackson, Elton John, Paul McCartney, Lou Reed, etc who have all labelled him a musical genius are just *dickriding*",
"lmao at how fast he runs out of there.",
"This isn't going to end well.",
"It's meant to be a riff on the overwhelming trend of videos of musicians ending concerts trending here",
"Or another pathetic attempt to get back in the news cycle.",
"If you didn’t know cudi helped a lot on that album.",
"I feel like it's a little different when the person in question is a celebrity worshiped by millions. Probably a lot of the criticism you're hearing is of the fans for acting like his behavior is healthy...",
"Looks like the comment was changed. It also had that they don't listen to rap or pay attention to fools.",
"He once rapped his entire album in a limo with Seth Rogen and his wife",
"If they like the music he's making, sure. I'll still listen, but I'm not invested like I once was except maybe hoping he'll go back to being crazy only part time lol",
"The \"without her consent\" is maybe debatable as it...made her (more) famous",
"Imagine defending Kanye and accusing people of being racist while being a hip hop snob. Lol you think Kanye represents underground street hip hop?",
"That's what I love about Reddit. You can always be sure to find some raw material.",
"Why would you assume that? I don't think you need to know the exact dates to realize that 400 years is way too long a time-span if you're talking about literal slavery.",
"Redditors want incredibly isolated, very clear examples of mental illness before they can actually start pretending to be empathetic.",
"Not sure I understand your comment... If you scroll like a minute into it, the remaining 16 minutes are a rant.",
"This would be perfect for /r/nottheonion",
"His music kind of goes beyond normal song structure. There's a flow and mood to it, where he blends tones or rhythms of speech and musical instrument together. Idk, there are plenty of people on YouTube who are better at putting what I'm saying into words.",
"Tldr",
"I actually got a paper ticket for this show. Might have been the last one I've received for any event. I used to pair my tickets with the CD/Vinyl coinciding with the tour.. this being the Spotify era, I definitely did not own a physical copy of the Life of Pablo",
"Wouldn't've got the lettuce if I knew it wouldn't fit, Wouldn't've got the cheese if I knew it wouldn't fit, Wouldn't've gotten like half of it, But you don't know the half of it.",
"And it brings you all the tiktok and youtube videos so you don't even need to go there cause most of it ends up here.",
"Him to sing not rant for 10 minutes. Swear to god i would be reversing the charge on my visa if a preformer pulled this shit",
"It's exactly like Trump. It's easy to see why Kanye thought they had the same \"dragon energy\" (or \"tiger blood\" as another crazy person might call it). For all his time spent demagoguing he might've spent even more time at his rallies just whining about personal grievances - stuff that his fans couldn't possibly know or care about. From wind farms, to how bad showers and toilets are because of water pressure regulations, to lightbulbs, to famous people saying bad things about him, etc. You can find footage of his fans just kind of milling about and leaving because they were bored on some occasions.\n\nWhat I personally can't understand is all the ostensibly mentally-normal people who worship them and hang on their every word.",
"Welcome to Heartbreak is the first I ever heard of him",
"Oh no!\n\nAnyways",
"So why did he end it early?",
"I wish his narcissism and insanity was a dealbreaker. But apparently his fans love those qualities. Why do so many people have such shitty taste in...people?\n\nI refuse to listen to any of his music on principle because of his arrogance. Wish the rest of the world would do the same. We need to stop rewarding this behavior.",
"I think it was the other way around.",
"I really enjoy these against the grain type of comments because most comment sections end up being on the same side, like a weird bot simulation, and these ones ground it all.",
"i went to Chipotle\n\ni went to Chipotle\n\ngot myself a chicken burrito",
"This guy sucks",
"Well shit",
"Only when they're rich and famous, and can easily afford any treatment their heart desires. Why should we have any sympathy for someone like that?",
"The guy can afford any treatment he wants and has basically limitless resources. Why should we have sympathy for him?",
"TIL! It makes so much sense to.",
"I think you all severely underestimate the power of that level of narcissism. \n\nKids aren't people deserving of respect to narcissists, they are something else to be used to further their own goals. Kids could have been used to hold control over Kanye. Unless you've dealt with these kinds of people, you don't know the lengths they go through.",
"I've never even been to tiktok. I probably wouldn't even know it was a thing if it wasn't for reddit.",
"That has nothing to do w being a sociopath.",
"it's not really clever because the joke is non-existent. all this is is a guy stating his own personal taste like its fact in a smug way. kanye makes incredible music and its pretty undeniable that he has changed entire face of hip-hop and sometimes popular music in general multiple times. when i see shit like this it just comes across as completely uninformed. the meme works with something like nickelback or imagine dragons but not kanye, and its played out either way. \"its not funny anymore try different jokes\"",
"How wrong can you be😭😭 tlop yeezus kids see ghosts are all top tier albums",
"Many things, hes diagnosed bipolar and has been addicted to drugs and alcohol, so thats probably not a good mix.",
"How does that have any bearing on their lives 20 years later?",
"What rap line isn't rhyming and summarizing something succinctly? Really wondering what some of your favorite lines are.",
"Well yeah Donda is a masterpiece. You should give it a listen 👍🏽",
"“Rap bad heavy metal better”",
"Take my upvote and get out you beautiful son of a bitch. Made my day.",
"can someone translate this into english?",
"damn you're really butt hurt about Kanye hey hahahaha",
"kanye actually did it first with his first 3 albums. he dethroned 50 cent and essentially killed off gangster rap in the mainstream consciousness. in a time where hip-hop was filled with baggy gangster clothes and toxic masculinity he came through wearing backpacks and pink polo shirts and rapping about more relatable and personal things. he showed you don't need a toxic machismo persona to be a rapper.",
"Y'all some brainwashed individuals around here, huh.",
"Okay, I have bipolar disorder type 2. Professionally diagnosed. \n\nKanye is an asshole.",
"Who tf is then? He has 22 Grammys, 6 submissions in the best albums list by rolling stone, is regarded as one of the influential artists of all time. How fucking ignorant can you be?",
"Besides Kanye who would that be then?",
"Did I miss something on the video? How were they in danger? Also if he thought the crowd was getting unruly saying what he will do next will really piss you off then walking away isn’t how you calm a mob.",
"Eh - saying he can \"hardly control\" the disorder isn't technically true. Medsand behavior therapy have been fairly successful. Last I heard, though, Kanye refused to take any meds, nor does he seem very apologetic after these episodes.\n\nHaving a mental illness doesn't excuse much if that person doesn't even try to get help.",
"I don't understand why people go to see KW anymore. He's crazy.",
"Yet this was a shock to no one. Plus I think they did get refunded.",
"Exactly. This fool is untreated by choice. He doesn't have to live in society with the rest of us, and he doesn't have to put on concerts for people. The man is a billionaire, he can do what he wants. In this case, he wanted to be a fucking idiot and waste the time of what appears to be about 100,000 people. He deserves derision regardless of his mental illnesses.",
"what makes him a good artist is his outstanding music",
"Bonnaroo 2008. Dude was supposed to go on at midnight but apparently his light show wasn't working right so he made everyone wait until 4:30 am. He came on and was acting like a dick and people booed the shit out of him and threw glowsticks at him. Still, he played like 3 songs and left. The next day, all Graffiti-able spaces were taken up by \"FUCK KANYE\" tags. It is Bonnaroo culture to holler out \"bonna-ROOOOO\" just whenever you want, and people will yell it back. For the next 3 years, you could choose whether to yell that, or \"Hey Fuck Kanye\" and like 30 people would answer back \"YEAH FUCK KANYE!\" sometimes they'd look back to see who said it, lock eyes with you and say \"FUCK YEAH DUDE FUCK KANYE\" and you would be best friends for the next ten minutes.",
"Kanye fans love this shit. His draw is like 85% because he makes great music and 15% that he's a wild dude that says whatever he wants. Most celebrities are afraid of sharing their thoughts on controversial topics for fear of losing fans/money/work, Kanye doesn't seem to have that fear at all. Imagine if Brad Pitt just released an 18 minute video with his honest, unscripted thoughts on slavery, race relations, politics, etc. A lot of people would probably turn on him. With Kanye he did all that from the start so anyone who would turn on him for the video OP posted would have done so already so they wouldn't be in that crowd.",
"Lmfao",
"I feel bad for Kid Cudi.",
"The venue would usually talk with about rescheduling a full show, then let them know that they will be banned if it continues to happen so many times.",
"Martin Luther King Jr. he ain't.",
"only jik was bad",
"Lmao, this is false. I saw him on this tour. He played for 2 hours and barely made a peep outside his songs. Yes what you’re saying did happen for a small minority of shows. But to say he did that all tour is false.",
"I mean there's a chat feature lol",
"They were in danger of hearing a Kanye concert",
"He is a joke",
"Well thankfully he stopped it!",
"Cudi was the talent behind a good bit of that.",
"tfw le redditors see a black person on their front page",
"Kanye sucks, it's okay.",
"That's 5 years of Seinfeld pre-friends. Friends came out as Seinfeld peaked. Then friends started their peak. I would call it more a handing of the reigns instead of contemporaries.",
"you do know that not getting something that most other people do doesn't make everyone else wrong, it makes you stupid. there is plenty of critically praised music i don't like but I have the brain cells to understand its merits.",
"Dude has mental health issues.",
"It was a tactical decision. You only asked so you could shit on whatever I said. I'm not going to give you that. You already decided he has the best body of work in the business. What other reason could you have to ask that? I'm not changing your mind.",
"Its not kanye being kanye. This is a person with mental health issues who lives in a bubble of people who tell them its genius. In any other context he would probably be getting help.",
"I love how you think of Reddit as a collective entity instead of 430 million individuals spread across the world, encompassing entire spectrums of social, political, spiritual, economic and cultural demographics.",
"Yeah, and only Kanye can see them and spends a good deal of his life dealing with them. That's why sometimes what he says doesn't make sense.",
"\"If you think it takes talent to become the biggest rapper, then you're a snob\"",
"Seinfeld started in '89 and its best seasons (3 thru 5, which contain The Contest, The Bubble Boy, The Puffy Shirt, The Opposite, The Dinner Party, The Subway, The Parking Garage, The Non-Fat Yogurt, The Fire, The Pilot, etc) all aired before Friends' pilot.\n\nFriends' first season they were also really trying to figure out the core personalities of all the characters and what they wanted the show to be, so I would really say Friends as we think of it now only overlapped w the latter third of Seinfeld.\n\nMan I really wanna rewatch Seinfeld now hahah",
"It's almost as if different people on the internet have different opinions.",
"I never said anything about anyone else. It’s my personal opinion that the dude sucks. Telling someone they suck because they don’t like something kinda makes you stupid.",
"Kanye is definitely a musical genius and as close to a prodigy as you could get. \n\nHis ability to wildly redefine his sound in each album, the innovation he's brought to the table that bent an entire genre towards more heart felt and heavy production, and his creativity when it came to sampling (pioneered by Kanye) is nothing but evidence of this.\n\nDespite what some numpty with a piece of paper on reddit thinks, your degree is worth sweet fuck all if you can't see his talent.",
"The woman has gone to the ends of the earth trying to keep that man as grounded as she could for their kids, and Reddit will never stop acting like the woman who bailed out Kanye is the gold digger...\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIt's weird how if you think wrestling is real you're a child, but if you base your image of a woman on a reality TV show on E network you're a level headed adult.",
"I didn't love every single song, but at like 90 minutes long, there's basically a whole normal album's worth of bangers on it.\n\nIt reminded me of when I watched Naruto - some great stuff if you can get through the filler arcs",
"Anyone know if Jay Z ever called him?",
"You mean the only example.",
"classic case of wanting to use a black man for their talents but getting mad when they open their mouth",
"Well, that and Pearl Jam played over an hour longer than they were supposed to, dragged their feet clearing the stage, etc. multiple reasons why he went on so late, some Kanyes fault, some not",
"theres a difference between being able to see the reason an artist is critically acclaimed and not liking their music and straight up saying you don't understand the appeal. they are separate things. kanye is talented and makes interesting music, thats not an opinion. whether you like listening to it or not is the opinion part. i don't watch anime but I understand why it's a popular art form, it just doesn't speak to me personally.",
"I take some solace in the line from \"All Eyes on Me\". \n\nHe stopped performing because he was having panic attacks on stage. So he went to therapy, and got better. \"I got so much better, that I figured; I should go on tour again.\" He was going to start doing that in 2020.\n\nI get the feeling he plays with the line in terms of transforming his personal struggles into a unique creative lens. I've worried about his emotional state, how much of what he shows us is exaggerated or just a dressed up version of his feelings. But the moments where he glanced at the camera near the end of \"Inside\" gives me some indication that he has some handle on it.",
"What's this about fishsticks?",
"you have to approach listening to kanye as an artist first and a rapper second. if you are looking for technical flows he won't be for you. he's a whole package. don't listen to him to hear raps, listen to him to hear a whole song. i get his presence on the his tracks can seem unpolished at times, but his quirks and charisma really grow on you. people seek perfection in art too much when flaws are what make art interesting and relatable.",
"People pay for this trash.",
"I don’t see the appeal either. I haven’t listened to all of his stuff because he’s just not my cup of tea, but my ex used to be obsessed with him and would listen to him quite often so I’ve heard enough. As I said, there are a few songs that were tolerable, maybe even 1 or 2 that I kind of liked, but there’s absolutely nothing about auto tune that should be praised in any way, and I heard lots of that. And my original comment was more about him as a person. I think he’s a narcissistic douchebag. That opinion stands based on his actions.",
"TIL, ticketmaster has a competitor.",
"yes, he takes a raw sample, puts it on an album, calls it a day. have you ever produced music? if you have you would understand the insane amount of work thats goes into his beats and how he has an incredible ear for samples/composition.",
"He is literally insane but you all indulge his manic episodes.",
"Watch any of the videos, or just continue making baseless judgments",
"Maybe because they have sympathy towards someone with a mental illness having an episode.",
"> Oh man, that's good he got treatment\n\nYa for sure, thank god he got that cleared up.",
"i see this weird ass opinion about autotune on reddit all the time. why are people so passionate about hating it? it's just a vocal effect. imagine people running around getting all pissed off that guitarists use distortion, its unusual.",
"Auto tune is fucking horrible. It screams no talent. I’ve hated it since I first heard it which I believe was Cher. It’s like nails running down a chalkboard to me.",
"F Kanye West, and F Travis Scott",
"go outside",
"Don't bother. This guy's so far up Kanye's butt I'm surprised he can reach the keyboard.",
"all this shit is proof we need to be protected from ourselves",
"So, some kind of contract-fine?",
"I like Kanye a lot actually. I listen to his albums and I think he's all around entertaining, for what it's worth. \n\nThe joke is that he realized if he didn't walk off stage the audience would hear the rest of it. The joke is the mundane nature of the end of the sentence, to be used in juxtaposition against \"artist realizes there's a stabbing in the crowd and stops the concert\" type posts.\n\nYou are too sensitive about this and I can't believe I had to spell the joke out for you. I wish I had picked a less controversial artist to make the joke with but he's the first that came to mind who walked off stage for the fuck of it so I went with him. I should have known that it would draw a clusterfuck of people who take my post seriously and at face value and either rag on Kanye for no reason other than \"rap bad, only 80s music good\" and his absolutely devoted zealots who take everything just as personally as he does.",
"Having certain mental illnesses can rob you of your ability to think rationally and behave civilly so yes, it quite literally is an excuse, by definition.",
"Ok.\n\nHip Hop hasn't been 'street' since about 1990 when the major corporate music labels took over independent underground genres like hip hop, punk, and metal which developed in the 80s outside of the major label spectrum.\n\nHip Hop and Punk Rock were started by low income street kids who developed counter-cultures that were then appropriated by corporate profiteers who stole the music and culture and turned it into a marketable commodity for middle and upper class consumers.\n\n80s Hip Hop was fairly positive music that tried to push good values to help kids avoid jail or morgues. 80s punk was revolutionary and dangerous to the establishment so they got taken over and made less radical.\n\nSony, Warner, and Universal are the big 3 labels. They each own a bunch of sub labels so it seems like there's a bigger market but really, these companies dominate the entire industry. No one gets on tv, in the charts, in the press, or anywhere else without being connected.\n\nYou could be the best musician on the planet but without a way to promote or distribute yourself, you're fucked.\n\nWith Kanye, him being talented or not is completely irrelevant. His marketability is his mouth and him saying egotistical, ridiculous nonsense.\n\nHe's signed to Universal who is owned by Vivendi who is a media conglomerate from Paris. Companies realized decades ago that they can convince rappers to advertise for them through music and product endorsement. Low income black kids buying stuff is marketable to suburban white kids who buy into these trends and media fabricated lifestyle.\n\nKanye wearing all the haute couture brands is advertising for European companies affiliated with Vivendi. Same with all the booze laced into the music. Teenage white kids buying all the expensive booze as heard endorsed by their favourite rapper.\n\nNowadays hip Hop is one of the most corporate controlled genres around. Even the indie rap scene is mostly tainted by toxic corporate values.",
"no it doesn't, it means he can hear the full potential of a sample before working it into a beat and consistently makes great sample selections. its a talent and you not liking his music doesn't change that. personally i would kill to have that level of foresight. do you know what composition even means? no one is claiming he composes the samples he uses, he creates compositions using samples. its like you are ignoring the intricate production surrounding these samples just to make some weird ass off brand opinion seem valid. the ability to flip existing art into an entirely new context that expands on or contrasts the original themes is really cool. all art is created through influence from existing art.",
"[Can’t fit his hand inside of the Pringles can](https://youtu.be/rYy0o-J0x20)",
"Pretty surprising actually.",
"Well, that was quite cringey.",
"you realize your title does not imply that right? it specifically says \"kanye stops his concert so his fans won't have to hear the rest of his concert\" not \"kanye stops his concert so his fans won't have to hear the rest of his rant\" its kind of a misleading title.",
"Too much money, drugs, and arrogance fueled by fanatics.\n\n\nOther things cause it, too, of course. But it's obvious why he's the way he is.",
"most if not a majority of reddit is full of middle age/boomers lol it's to be expected. I used to work at a phone store and the people who had reddit on their phones would be middle aged people who won't come out of their comfort zone.",
"Probably people that were not paying attention to the trend on this sub since the Astroworld show.",
"I dunno you kinda have to expect this when you go to a concert of an artist who is very obviously mentally ill and just continually getting worse because he's probably constantly surrounded by an entourage of yes men.",
"did you read a single thing to the guy who you're replying to lol",
"Did you order this pasta?\n\nBrown was driving a vehicle with Robyn F. as the front passenger on an unknown street in Los Angeles. Robyn F. picked up Brown's cellular phone and observed a three-page text message from a woman who Brown had a previous sexual relationship with.\n\nA verbal argument ensued and Chris Brown pulled the vehicle over on an unknown street, reached over Robyn F. with his right hand, opened the car door and attempted to force her out. Brown was unable to force Robyn F. out of the vehicle because she was wearing a seat belt. When he could not force her to exit, he took his right hand and shoved her head against he passenger window of the vehicle, causing an approximate one-inch raised circular contusion.\n\nRobyn F. turned to face Brown and he punched her in the left eye with his right hand. He then drove away in the vehicle and continued to punch her in the face with his right hand while steering the vehicle with his left hand. The assault caused Robyn F.'s mouth to fill with blood and blood to splatter all over her clothing and the interior of the vehicle.\n\nBrown looked at Robyn F. and stated, 'I'm going to beat the shit out of you when we get home! You wait and see!'\n\nThe detective said Robyn F. then used her cell phone to call her personal assistant Jennifer Rosales, who did not answer.\n\nRobyn F. pretended to talk to her and stated, 'I'm on my way home. Make sure the police are there when I get there.'\n\nAfter Robyn F. faked the call, Brown looked at her and stated, 'You just did the stupidest thing ever! Now I'm really going to kill you!'\n\nBrown resumed punching Robyn F. and she interlocked her fingers behind her head and brought her elbows forward to protect her face. She then bent over at the waist, placing her elbows and face near her lap in [an] attempt to protect her face and head from the barrage of punches being levied upon her by Brown.\n\nBrown continued to punch Robyn F. on her left arm and hand, causing her to suffer a contusion on her left triceps (sic) that was approximately two inches in diameter and numerous contusions on her left hand.\n\nRobyn F. then attempted to send a text message to her other personal assistant, Melissa Ford. Brown snatched the cellular telephone out of her hand and threw it out of the window onto an unknown street.\n\nBrown continued driving and Robyn F. observed his cellular telephone sitting in his lap. She picked up the cellular telephone with her left hand and before she could make a call he placed her in a head lock with his right hand and continued to drive the vehicle with his left hand.\n\nBrown pulled Robyn F. close to him and bit her on her left ear. She was able to feel the vehicle swerving from right to left as Brown sped away. He stopped the vehicle in front of 333 North June Street and Robyn F. turned off the car, removed the key from the ignition and sat on it.\n\nBrown did not know what she did with the key and began punching her in the face and arms. He then placed her in a head lock positioning the front of her throat between his bicep and forearm. Brown began applying pressure to Robyn F.'s left and right carotid arteries, causing her to be unable to breathe and she began to lose consciousness.\n\nShe reached up with her left hand and began attempting to gouge his eyes in an attempt to free herself. Brown bit her left ring and middle fingers and then released her. While Brown continued to punch her, she turned around and placed her back against the passenger door. She brought her knees to her chest, placed her feet against Brown's body and began pushing him away. Brown continued to punch her on the legs and feet, causing several contusions.\n\nRobyn F. began screaming for help and Brown exited the vehicle and walked away. A resident in the neighborhood heard Robyn F.'s plea for help and called 911, causing a police response. An investigation was conducted and Robyn F. was issued a Domestic Violence Emergency Protective Order.",
"It's widely viewed as his worst album ever, but I could see why you might like more than one song. \n\nMy opinion is obviously just mine.",
"I will make all future posts I title much more digestible then. I apologize, you've made me realize that you really need to cater to all levels of intellect on the internet.",
"bruh don't be like that, i read your title exactly as you wrote it and you got pissy i didn't get a joke that you never actually made. if you want to mean something, say that thing.",
"Widely viewed by who? The major pubs mostly viewed it positively, RYM has it at a 3.43, Fanta o viewed it positively, most of my friends liked it.\n\nNot that that matters, your opinion is your own, but it being viewed as his worst ever is patently false",
"Has it occurred to you that most people don't care that hiphop isn't \"street\"?\n\n\"Kanye being talented or not is irrelevant\" \n\nConsidering that both the title of this post and my response that you are responding to deal primarily with \"is Kanye's music bad?\" It seems like whether or not he's a good musician is pretty relevant. \n\nYeah rap is commercialized... just like everything popular. So? \n\nIs this like a \"capitalism bad\" thing for you?",
"Manic word salad",
"You're right. I should have titled it \"The following is a joke and not meant in any way an attack upon Kanye's fragile fans: This is a video which can be humorously juxtaposed against the recent overwhelming influx of artists stopping their context, since he stops it in the middle without ANY violence or people in any true danger (NOTE: this redditor acknowledges that Kanye us a god among man)\"",
"Lmfao can you just imagine all the logistics and work that goes into setting up a concert like this. Like just the ARMY of people who have to work together to get this to actually happen. Then the dude just gets up on stage, rants for 17 min and quits lmfao.",
"Are you saying filthy rich people don't get married for convenience and to increase their wealth and power?",
"Says the fellas circle jerking a 5 year old video 😂",
"There's a few. Altitude Tickets, Festival Tickets, AXS. SmithTix, I know I'm forgetting a few. Some big venues, like Red Rocks and STAPLES Center never use Ticketmaster.",
"Hating Kanye and showcasing willful ignorance about his life and career while doing so is one of the easiest ways to build karma on Reddit.",
"bro come on, I'm not attacking you, i'm simply trying to explain that I justifiably misunderstood your title because of syntax you chose to use. i get your joke now, i'm just explaining why i didn't and why it's unnecessary to act like this because of that. im sure you can understand why i immediately assumed unfounded kanye hate on a default subreddit, people here have raging boners for that shit all the time.",
"Honestly I’ve realized that whenever there is literally any post against rap, or talking about issues in the rap community, the weirdos sho only listen to classic rock or to metal come out of the woodwork to proclaim how much better they are for not having listened to modern rap. And they act like their taste in music is superior, like they somehow are better than everybody else for living in their little bubble. Never,ind r idols used to have underage groupies, and other weird shit.",
"im not a kanye stan, i love his music but i'm not hyperdefending him. im defending the use of samples in music production because any reasonable person understands that it still takes talent and skill to write a song regardless of if it includes a sample or not.",
"what does it have to do with talent in any way?",
"Funny",
"Are you serious??? If you can actually sing you don’t need to alter your voice. Auto tune all sounds the same. Why would we want our artists to all sound like dying robots? Get a fucking clue dude.",
"Because he's a human being and because money doesn't automatically solve all problems.",
"Except that this isn't the only way manic episodes can present.",
"I saw this tour and holy fuck it was cool, that floating stage was from another world\n\nI saw Tool that same year and felt weird saying “I liked Kanye more than Tool”",
"He has really good music.",
"This video is a really good look at a prominent aspect of his production. Good showcase of its depth.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgJyhKEZ8QU",
"If that’s when real musicians used their real voices then consider me stuck. Kanye sucks on multiple levels.\n\nAlso, sick burn bro. Roasted me.",
"Including their handling fee?",
"You’d be surprised how badly some people might want really badly to be the next Beyoncé & Jay-Z. The lure to be a “power couple” in the world of would-be billionaires is certainly high on some narcissists’ lists.",
"How do you know this? Did he say he is going crazy or you just guessed?",
"Damn. Can anyone who is sure how digital ticket transfers work nowadays chime in here?",
"He did the right thing",
"This video is a really good look at a prominent aspect of his production. Good showcase of its depth.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgJyhKEZ8QU",
"So, the answer to your question is pretty complicated. I'll give it my best.\n\nThe College Dropout was *mostly* produced by Kanye, but there are dozens of other names listen in the production credits. Why? Kanye has never mixed and mastered his own stuff, so those people get credits. He also doesn't do all the studio engineering (running the equipment like those big slider consoles you see), nor does he play every instrument that ends up getting recorded. Also consider that every once in a while, a friend or fellow artist in the studio has an idea for part of a song- if that makes it to the final cut, they may get a producer credit too. The later you go in Kanye's career, the more people he collaborates with, and the producer credit list gets pretty long and complicated. Through all that though, Kanye is the driving force behind it all. He will bring other people to the studio to make contributions, but he is the mastermind who chooses what to include, what to record, where to put it, how it should all sound at the end of the day.\n\nNow on to the other part of your question - do the other producers not get enough credit? The answer to that is a resounding \"yes and also no\". Some of those credited arguably get *too much* credit - some people get a credit just because they thought one particular snare hit was too loud and should be bumped down in the mix. Others (and this scenario is probably more common) have a monumental contribution to the album and should receive far more credit (and/or compensation). \n\n*BUT*, I'd also like to highlight the fact that this is not unique to Kanye West or even to hip hop. People who produce their music all on their own are very very rare. Of course you have your Kevin Parkers and your Frank Zappas, but almost every popular musician in history has paid someone else to help write, produce, engineer, record, mix, and master their music; and by the same token, producers are rarely given the credit they deserve. The Beatles' output would look nothing like it does without George Martins' contributions; Dark Side of the Moon would never have been what it was without Alan Parsons and Chris Thomas; Jimi Hendrix would never have been the superstar he was without Chas Chandler; and the list goes on and on.",
"Yeah. The way ticketing agencies work is they hold all the money they make for selling tickets, and they are responsible for all charge-backs and merchant fees. They also handle all the customer service for ticket delivery and sometimes mail physical tickets (while a few venues handle their own fulfillment). Over one in four online ticket sales results in a charge reversal so this is much more expensive than most industries.\nWhen the event takes place as scheduled, all the face value of the tickets sold is disbursed to the promoters, and the ticketing agency keeps the fees. The big expense is people buying tickets at the last minute with stolen card numbers and the charge isn't caught until later. The ticketing agency has to pay back the full amount, face value and fees, even though the promoters already have the face value. If the charge back happens before the event, the ticketing agency usually can take the face value of the tickets back from the promoters to refund the card company, but in some cases there is a limit to the number the promoters will cover.\n\nThis is why the fees scale with the price of tickets, usually around 15-20% of the ticket face value unless the tickets are under $50 - some expenses don't scale with ticket value so the fees are never going to be much under $8-10 even if the tickets are only $20.",
"I'm not saying it'll be the *ONLY* example, jee whiz.",
"Your neglecting the Reddit bias. Similar people seek out environments such as Reddit. They are not the entire spectrum of anything.",
"woah",
"its so funny how confident you are about something you demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge about. as a music producer let me explain this to you. You cannot and would not use autotune for a bad singer, it won't do anything. People use it because they like the robot effect as an aesthetic choice. If you put bad singing through autotune you will just have bad singing with fx. At best, autotune can be used to smooth out small imperfections in a good performance to give it a more polished and less raw sound, and in those cases the average listener would have no idea it's used at all. For a bad singer you would need to painstakingly manually pitch correct every note, every word, and even then if they were a truly bad singer it would still sound like shit. There is no automatic way to do that. This is why the autotune hate gets to me, it's based on a massive misconception that it has anything to do with talent instead of taste. If you can hear autotune on a track it's because they like the way it sounds, not because they can't sing. I didn't mean for this to get heated but it really fucks me up to be told by people with zero music production experience that they know more than me about something i've been doing for 15 years. It's misinformation.",
"I highly recommend A man named Scott on prime video. Really shows who Cudi was to anyone who listens to his music",
"imagine spouting nonsense then being corrected and just saying \"nevermind im bored\". insecure.",
"Most transformational artist of the millennium .... lol\n\nTwat.",
"Sorry…but someone being a human is not enough of a prerequisite for my sympathy.",
"Literally nobody is acting like he’s healthy dude.\n\nEven go to his fan subs, they’re all people who want him to get help.",
"I don't think it's that as much as it's just that it's passed time for him to hang it up. Most artists that try to keep going for too long just end up pumping out mediocre shit and Kanye is no exception.",
"Yeah I think that is a mis characterization. Kanye met her years before and they were in those celebrity circles where they knew one another and both were in the orbit of East Coast rap.\n\nHe wanted to get into fashion and was really frustrated that he came so far as a rapper and producer but couldn't get into the coutre fashion houses. You can see her style changing almost over night when they were at events together.\n\nHe plateaued and wasn't happy about being the most genre defining musician of his generation. She wanted to make a fashion line also. It was a match made in hell.\n\nI honestly don't think either one of them know how to have a happy relationship that isn't performing for others. I think they grew apart, and Kim outgrew Kanye. Then she didn't need him anymkre.",
"Best thing he’s ever done.",
"i’ll ask again who has done more post 2000",
"Bullshit. Lol, this very discussion is Exhibit A.\n\n\"Everyone on reddit has the same world view\" - person on reddit to person on reddit with an opposing viewpoint.",
"Yeap!",
"Holy shit look at the comments on the youtube video. They are all praising him for telling the truth and red pilling them, he didnt even say anything other than just \"they are bad\".",
"Idk I saw him at the Allstate center in Chicago and he didn’t rant at all, kinda feel like I missed out on part of the experience",
"Yeah. I saw this your in Montreal and it was absolutely amazing.",
"Calling someone experiencing a psychotic episode a POS, you’re the POS here. 🤦♂️",
"I only listen to real music such as Queen and anime intros",
"I have never heard of Reddit",
"No, of course that happens just that it wasnt KK's primary reason for marrying Kanye. But I have no idea that was just my opinion.",
"Same as his music",
"Just sounds jealous Drake and Khaled are getting airplay. Remember when hip hop was proud of being underground?",
"Blows my mind how this idiot is so successful",
"You’re making a lot of assumptions man. It’s just a discussion. I’m a hip hop fan so whoever you might have named, I’m most likely a fan of too. I was just wondering who you think has a better catalogue of you think Kanye only made 1 good album",
"He's bi-polar. But that doesn't mean he's wrong. Even people in magic states can speak truth.",
"Because it's annoying that the most popular music is the dumbest",
"“He’s an awful person, that’s why I hate him” “ why yes my favourite rock bands are all half-pedophiles”",
"> Has it occurred to you that most people don't care that hiphop isn't \"street\"?\n\n> We estimate the size of the global streetwear market at $185 billion by sales*, making it by some estimates about 10% of the entire global apparel and footwear market.\n\nhttps://www.strategyand.pwc.com/gx/en/insights/2019/streetwear.html\n\nYour original post is making fun of liking Eminem who is basically just an earlier iteration of Kanye. They're both corporate designed fabrications to sell an image/lifestyle.\n\n> It seems like whether or not he's a good musician is pretty relevant.\n\nThat's just you measuring corporate sales to actual talent.\n\n> Yeah rap is commercialized... just like everything popular. So?\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyfication\n\nCultures develop best when they develop naturally and organically. It's people free to develop and create and it's beneficial to society's healthy development. Counter-cultures like punk and hip hop got popular originally because it was music made by actual street people who used the medium to project their art and politics and values to try and engage or unite people for positive social and community changes.\n\nPublic Enemy was the most popular politically conscious rap group. Songs like Fight the Power rallied behind guys like Malcolm X in order to raise up 'black' communities.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/ag4c47LzfXs\n\nThey got shut down and replaced by corporate made gangster rap which pushed some of the worst community and individual values on low income kids who are encouraged by suburban white kids.\n\nLook at that Travis Scott douche. Everything about that guy is a byproduct of corporate subversion of youth counter-culture.",
"Ok well then let me rephrase that to please you. Auto tune is in poor taste. It never sounds good and I wish people would stop using it. I also wish people who produce music would stop including it in their productions. I don’t need music production experience to confidently say when something sounds bad to me.",
"/s",
"I’m fucking 30 years old, and an out of touch old man who just goes to work with other out of touch old people. That’s how. Lmao.",
">entire relationship being effectively fake seems like a reach.\n\nPEOPLE WILL KILL FOR FAME....releasing sex tape of yourself is just as reachy...",
"I believe there is insurance that pays out.",
"He saved all of them from the shittiest music experience, he should get a medal for that.",
"LOL people don't believe you but to kim and kanyes kids are like having a \"whole set\" without kids the gold chain and mansion mean nothing.",
"Fuck you, no we don’t.",
"Bad take",
"I know tons of people with bipolar that think Kanye is just an asshole.",
"“I don’t even know what that means!”",
"Fuck you! Yes we do!",
">\tvideos of musicians ending concerts \n\nI don’t understand what this means",
"Agree to disagree friend",
"Isn't he a multi millionaire who decided to run for the presidency. I mean whatever demons hes dealing with, he's still has more resources and help then a lot of us went through, especially during a once in a hundred year pandemic. After a while it's time to tell him to stop being a jackass and grow the hell up.",
"then don't listen to that music i guess? i don't like the way country singers voices sound but i'm not going to be like \"i wish they would stop sounding like that!\" i just listen to different music. i've never felt angered by the mere existence of music i don't personally like. especially considering you have complete 100% control over what you listen to, with more variety than any other time in human history. and just a further fyi about pitch correction, if you listen to recorded music with vocals you are hearing pitch correction. the exception being incredibly amateur artists, live performances, or music made in like the 40s or earlier. analog pitch correction was a common practice in the 50s and onwards until it was replaced by digital methods.",
"I don’t excuse bad behavior, but I’m not going to stop enjoying art because the artist is problematic.",
"Fuck me, we DO!",
"WE GET IT. TRAVIS SCOTT IS AN ASSHOLE. CONGRATS!",
"You see, what you have failed to realize this entire time is that my comment was related more to Kanye west as a person, not his music. I mentioned a small bit of what I thought of it, but I didn’t try to rip it to shreds. I don’t listen to that type of music. I can’t stand country either, and I don’t listen to it. My comment was referring to how he comes off as a person, which is bad. I stopped reading when you tried to school me on pitch correction or whatever. That’s not what this is about, or ever was about. Somewhere in the conversation I mentioned that auto tune is awful. You are really taking offense to it all and need to let it go.",
"His new stuff isn't that bad. I think it's just easy to feel I'll towards it as his sanity declines too. For me I think I like.it because the music isn't as crazy as he is. Thought it's a collaboration project, Kids See Ghosts is very good.",
"Fair play. I really dislike Kanye but that was a douchey thing of me to say. I don’t wish mental illness on anyone and that was a POS thing to say. I’ll leave it up , maybe some people thinking the same thing I was Can check themselves\n\nPeace",
"Kid Cudi is amazing creating worlds in his albums. He reminds me of the Pink Floyd of rap with his use of space within an album.",
"yeah basically Kid Cudi came in and did it better than Kanye That's why he has so much respect for him.",
"Lol @ paying mo ey to go see that guy. \n\n\nAnd his church sessions. Hilarious.",
"no",
"Insurance broker here. I broker policies for events like this (although I've never insured a kanye event). Very few promoters actually buy what's called \"event cancellation insurance\". It's different from your usual event liability insurance (one of your structures falls and kill someone) or liquor liability (someone gets taken to the hospital for alcohol poisoning). That said most promoters and large event companies have very complex contracts with everyone (vendors, artists, security services, food services, alcohol services, etc) that determine who pays what when things go south.",
"No they just didn't want to deal with all of the credit card charge backs.",
"no, i pointed out your misconception about autotune without going into detail and then you, without any knowledge on the subject, told me to get a fucking clue. then i tried to give you one so you can stop commenting things that are simply not true and look like less of a moron, and instead of just accepting the fact that you were wrong and thanking me for providing you with correct information you avoided it entirely.",
"This Pablo tour was turning into a legendary tour until he completely went off the deep end in the middle of it.",
"i only spit facts",
"This guy fucks (Ticketmasters.)",
"Fuck you too BITCH! You ain’t shit.",
"I’m so uninterested in anything you have to say. Even more so now that you claim to have all this knowledge. Fuck off. I don’t care.\n\nEdit: spellcheck error",
"you care so so much, but have a good night",
"whoa whoa leave sabaton outta this",
"At least Kanye didn’t bomb thousands of children",
"I think that someone willing to leak a sex tape for fame is probably willing to marry someone famous for the same reason.",
"b-but not all redditors!!",
"In the wake of Travis Scott continuing his \"performance\" despite knowing several people in his audience had died, there have been a lot of posts of more responsible musicians ending shows when they became unsafe or at least performing basic crowd control when they see something bad happening.",
"\"Two people have a different opinion therefore everyone on reddit has a different opinion on everything\" said the false syllogism.\n\nReddit is predominantly male, 18-29, college educated. Reddit also leans towards radicalism. Plenty of google data to support that and further bias in specific subreddits. \n\nKeep pretending you are a new and interesting snowflake and not just part of the shitty snow in the gutter of reddit.",
"Why do these videos keep appearing. I’m sure they got the narrative set in motion on this app",
"People who enjoy Kanye and listen to his music aren't really the type of people who are used to hearing truly profound or insightful shit, so they've got no baseline to work with.\n\nHe could recite some empty Instagram wine-mom motivational quotes and they'd be just as enthralled",
">That doesn't make him a good artist.\n\nHaving the highest regarded & most iconic discography in hop-hop makes you a great artist \n\nHaving arguably the most critically acclaimed hip-hop album **ever** (MBDTF) makes you a great artist \n\nHaving the most critically acclaimed hip hop song **ever** (Runaway) makes you a great artist \n\nSuccesfully reinventing yourself with a new sound every project (what he's known for) with great production (what he's also known for) for almost 2 decades makes you a great artist\n\nHave you even listed to a **single** Kanye album, or an album from any other major hip-hop artist? Do you even know **anything** about the state of hip hop? \n\nIt's always the people that know nothing about something that hold the strongest opinions about it.",
"I'm still not sure if this is really mental illness anymore than Republicans have mental illness.",
"Some people can't cope without the \"/s\" laugh track to tell them when to laugh",
"As person who hangs his hat on loving the “old Kanye” and distances himself from the “New Kanye” after this was where I let go. It’s my mental cutoff as far as the music I go lol. But too much of the nostalgic rap I love is connected to his early days. I find it hard to be this dismissive selfishly considering how much I love the era.",
"Amen. Join us in r/raisedbynarcissists",
"I feel sorry for you.",
"And yet here are being an ass hole.",
"\\*because nobody wanted the jackass as President, remember?",
"You're spot on. They've got to have everything, and have it be the best. The substance of it doesn't mean as much as having it.",
"Yea but don’t put obama on a pedestal man, he’s seriously done damage to many peoples lives. (Or any US political leader at that)",
"If you are living with mental illness, the only person responsible for managing that illness is you. Getting treatment or not is 100% under his control.",
"You can like the art without looking the artist. I still enjoy some of his earlier stuff a lot. Can't stand the guy at all but I don't regret buying a copy of Graduation back in the day.",
"You must not have been around very long. This far predates reddit. \n\nAlso, it's because it is actually the greatest song of all time.",
"How's the other commenter enabling Kanye? If they've ever been in the same _room_ as Kanye, there's a 99% chance it was because they bought tickets to a concert. They almost definitely don't know Kanye, and there's a near 0% chance that Kanye is at all influenced by what they post on reddit of all places.\n\nE: Spelling",
"EMBRACE THE HIVEMIND",
"The internet is a shit hole where people flush away there mental garbage. Don't be surprised when you find an overwhelming amount of garbage in a landfill. You might find some cool shit too, but it's still shit. If you want the real thing, it ain't here chief.",
"Can you guys stop giving this guy money and attention please?",
"What was the reasoning for going there in the first place? There had to be better options for artists to see performing live",
"no ya dont. There's already about 5 albums of great music from him.\n\ndon't have to lie about it",
"Watch and learn as I do this called \"Not caring what other people are interested in and being my own person\". Poof!",
"Did you not listen to the rant? Kid Cudi was pushed out of the collective consciousness of society by the people who control what you hear and Kanye feels some type of way about it.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThis whole rant is about how your perception of reality is being controlled by mass media.",
"I take a lot of pride in the rock I live beneath, thank you very much.",
"But hiding behind a screen does?",
"Name one genius that ain't crazy",
"Seriously. His net worth has ballooned since they got married. Dude has a billion dollar fashion brand.\n\nIf you want to argue that he didn't put out good music after Kim, I mean maybe. It's tough because honestly Dark Twisted Fantasy, Pablo, and Ye are some of his deepest and most complete albums. I don't think you can say that.",
"Similarly: Blaming any horrible criminal act on mental illness, even when the horrible person in question never showed any signs of mental illness.\n\nJust yesterday I had people arguing with me that there is no such thing as \"evil\" and that all evil acts must be caused by a mental illness.",
"I noticed that. Every comment is about how the \"sheep don't understand what's he's saying\" yet they never say what it is he's saying themselves",
"Yep I got it too",
"\"Kanye West ending his concert early when he realizes that his fans are in danger\" - oh that's nice and considerate of him.... \"of hearing the rest of it\" - you gotta be joking",
"blatantly not true but if you wanna think so idc",
"After the Astro world concert deaths, in which the singer didn’t stop the show for paramedics, now popular posts are showing other singers pausing shows where injured fans are in the crowd to show some performers care about their fans. \n\nThis Kanye one is just a silly rant",
"I’d imagine they have insurance for these types of situations",
"That's one stupid f\\*\\*ker.",
"Agree that Twisted Fantasy was one of the all times.. If you haven’t seen the mini movie/video then it’s a must. You can find it on YouTube.",
"I am an asshole but I make no excuses for it",
"Yeah agreed, I think if it was a 50 minute album, with the fat trimmed it would have been all time",
"Yall are going back and forth like opinions are objective and fact. Neither are right or wrong.",
"Never tried to say my opinion was fact. I had people attack me for saying what I felt though.",
"This isn’t the first time he’s done this, and it won’t be the last.",
"Worked for tickets.com for 3 years for my first job. Was a sweet gig taking ticket orders at 6am and off by 1pm for east coast sales.",
"Your pretentiousness is funny as fuck. The idiot above me came here wondering why they've seen conflicting attitudes towards mental health on a network with 430 million active users. What the fuck point are you even trying to make? That trends and biases on reddit equates to a singular viewpoint? Haha, sit down you fucking doofus.",
"Not trying to argue with you but literally in the new cudi documentary ye says that cudi started it. And he definitely did not kill off gangster rap in the mainstream. Lil Wayne controlled rap after those Ye albums. School boy Q, A$AP Rocky etc all said Cudi was the first rapper they heard talk about shit like that.",
"Speak for yourself, Kanye's music is all shit",
"Racially motivated",
"fuck i think he suffers from bipolar disorder bro",
"I bad-mouthed Kanye on a Kanye sub a few weeks ago and got down voted to hell. \n\nHis fans treat him like a god",
"Fuck yeah, thats Ye",
"every bit of his music is shit imo",
"Me gusta",
"before he started ranting so much on stage, the tlop tour was probably his best yet",
"Cudi and Ye both rap about different things in different ways. Kanye 100% opened the door for vulnerability in rap and started the decline of the machismo gangster persona, which ultimately created an environment where a rapper like Cudi, who went even more introspective and talked about subjects like mental health, could exist. Basically Kanye shifted the culture in a way that led to Cudi starting the wave he did, if that makes sense. You have to remember that Kanye dropped his first 4 albums before Cudi dropped his debut album.",
"I once read an article about how deep Kanye lyrics were supposed to be. I read it, read the full lyrics of the mentioned song, I found absolutely nothing of value that hasn't been repeated over and over in mass media. Really he writes like an angsty high schooler",
"He did this at Coachella for like 35 minutes of an hour and 15 minute set, beasically about how important his fans were because of how much money they made him and that the copoeate overlords could no longer control him and how we should buy his yeezy($750 shoes mind you) because the companies just want your money or some bull shit that was exactly what he was doing.",
"*and video game osts",
"Fan of his? He’s his own fans and he probably had many fake fan accounts to down vote you himself.",
"His point that the reddit hive mind generally punches down on mental illness is accurate. Your relentless insults just show you're an idiot. Accurately.",
"You started the name calling, \"snowflake\". Are you a kid?",
"Sorry but that is bullshit. I don´t have to know the backstory of an artist to listen to his music.",
"Wow that is high praise! I will definitely go back and give his earlier work a shot after reading this!",
"> I love that you recite your opinions as simply facts.\n\n> Kanye hasn't made a single good album since MBDTF\n\nKSG? TLOP? Donda? Yeezus? Watch the Throne? All of these were great albums who both casual listeners and critics panned. Name one song 4 Your Eyez Only or Revival with replay value.",
"Well he raps.. so what is he then?",
"It´s not my favorite genre but I do still listen to it quite a bit. Lately a lot of NF for example.",
"I am not denying his influence, as I said I just don´t understand it.",
"You said you like chocolate chip cookies. Why do you hate peanut butter cookies?",
"I think believing you're central to the world/universe and everyone's always thinking about you probably helps.\n\nAlthough in high profile people's lives, like Kanye, I imagine it would be hard to think otherwise.",
"Real inspiring. Recap- Kanye knows all and everyone else is stupid and against him.",
"Your comment is shit imo",
"Thats basically the same thing.",
"Snowflake is not an insult. It's allegory to your belief of uniqueness of every individual on Reddit. Unique like... every... snowflake... is... unique. And statistically, as previously stated, both of us are young males with some college experience. How effective that experience was in educating you and I clearly varies.",
"No it´s clearly not? \n\nI could say that I don´t think the mona lisa is a good painting while absolutely accepting the fact that it´s one of the most famous and valuable pieces of art.",
"Cute.",
"That's true. Kanye subs are 100% Kanye alt accounts",
"On hiphop head I said he was going down the route of coolio where he was on top of the game at one point. And now look at him. \n\nI doubt that will happen to Kanye but coolio is a decent example of having it all and ending up with the shit end of the stick.",
"So you don’t understand why it’s influential, you’ve just been told and you keep repeating it?",
"I miss when these people were too dumb to read a newspaper or comprehend a 3 minute news segment.",
"When I want to be, yes.",
"I am starting to get it, he still won´t be on my regular playlists and I still think he is a subpar rapper/singer. But I am starting to understand what other people see in him.",
"Not really, just a dork.",
"He couldn’t even handle how bad it sounded that loud.",
"The competitor they're shitting their pants about is NFTs.",
"It literally was a manic episode, he was hospitalized less than a week later. He's diagnosed bipolar",
"There were plenty before him. \nCheck out Rhymesayers Entertainment. \nStart here. [God Loves Ugly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS_3pED-wJo)",
"Nobody knows what it means but it's provocative!",
"Hahaha yes, complaining about some shit that didn't even happen in this thread, making dumbass drama spill over into other threads to get some more karma and virtue signal. True reddit moment.",
">To have multiple kids together would be an absurd amount of dedication to the effort.\n\nEvery single royal family throughout history would like to speak with you.",
"Found some.",
"Wanna send a sister the link. I’m curious as to what ~~he says about himself~~ his fans say about him.",
"There is no way I would spend my time and money supporting someone who has such derision for his fans. He sees himself as a god, but he’s nothing but an overhyped joke.",
"Didn't you hear Ye? Google lies to you!",
"Let me know when you make up your mind or can make a cogent point with basic text",
"Kanye is a saint 🙏🙏🙏🙏",
"Thanks!!",
"You're proving my point with every word you type. Not necessary, but I appreciate the help.",
"Kindest thing he’s ever done.",
"Can't endure more than 5 seconds of this garbage. Can't endure a 17 minute video to figure out what happened. I could literally care less.",
"Ur telling a person with 22 Grammys and 6 album submissions in the rolling stone sbest album list r doesn't have good music🤨stfu white boy",
"Ur missing out🤷",
"Why were you there is the real question...",
"Whatever point you imagine you had was lost in your initial incorrect rant and never regained. You have no point and no supporting data. You're just attempting to save face.",
"You don't age (mentally) through time, you age through life lessons and experience. Poor Kanye is just a kid who thinks he knows everything and has nothing in his life that can help him see the truth.",
"A lot hip hop fans would say that Kanye has the best catalogue but ok",
"Ok, person arguing on reddit that everyone on reddit shares the same viewpoints. And without a whiff of irony. Amazing.",
"Ur missing out on great music but ok🤷",
"Once again, you are failing to understand what the reddit bias is and how it relates to your statement and its validity. Go educate yourself. We won't wait, but we will benefit from your efforts.\n\nOr reiterate your flawed analysis as if that will lend it any semblance of versimilitude. And continue to disappoint us all.",
"She’s actually stuck in good music for what I can read.",
"I don't know... years ago I appreciated the lyrical stylings of Trick Daddy, he said some things I didn't agree with, sure, but it's not very often I completely agree with anyone. He was slated to do a show where Juvenile was going to be there also. I went VIP and spent more than I want to admit between that and accommodations, as it was out of town and it had been a while since I went out. Juvenile asked for 15k more right before the show, and when the venue said No, he left. They came and took the bottles from everyone in the VIP section, very fucking expensive, overpriced bottles, and gave no reason why. Trick Daddy said if it wasn't good enough for Juvenile, he damn sure wasn't going on either. They had taken our bottles in expectation of a riot. \n\nA bouncer politely let me in on what was happening and offered to show me something that might make up for the loss I was feeling. This \"something\" was behind a beautifully painted door in a sound proof, empty section... it was his penis. The door was to a different VIP section bathroom. I politely declined, he insisted, and we tore every stall down and a sink in the resulting scuffle. I escaped relatively unscathed.\n\nNever spent another dime to support either artist ever again. So it's likely at least some of them won't either.",
"It happens so much: you get five minutes into a video and think “I’m not getting anything here.” A good principle for clear communication is to start with a simple statement and expand from there. If you’re doing a film review, say, then state whether you liked it or not.",
"Not failing at all. You're fucking daft. The original commentor has over time read some number of comments by people on reddit supporting mental health, then comes to this thread to find some number of people shitting on Kanye's issues with mental health. Commentor then sees that conflict and calls it reddit's hypocracy. But, for it to be hypocracy, the hypocritical comments would need to be made by the same individuals. The commentor, and the dweeb who jumped in with pretentious bullshit failed to understand that there's 430 million reddit users, and those two idiots shouldn't be surprised that some number of comments hold conflicting regard for other's mental health compared to others. Biases have nothing to do with it unless you can demonstrate that the same individuals are acting hypocritically, since reddit isnt a single entity like the original idiot suggested. Anyway. I'm sick of you. You're not clever. Fuck up.",
"Kanye West is a bitch made punk, his music is garbage.. I wonder why people still bother with him.",
"I've liked all of his albums. Liked all of Chance's too despite Reddit telling me that my music taste is incorrect.",
"To complain. Like everyone on their high horse yelling reddit moment on reddit.",
"You're so much better than us.",
"The comments section is so cultist",
"My favourite is when they complain about rhyming the same words with each other in rap. I always ask them what kind of music they like, Rolling Stones or something? Just in the hopes they say yes so I can point out Rolling Stones has a song where they keep rhyming black with black.",
"You've definitely never seen a Kanye concert before",
"I saw Kanye at Bonnaroo one year. Motherfucker didn’t even take the stage until 4:30 in the morning, he was expected to start at like 11 or 12. I think he blamed Pearl Jam or something for playing too long… whatever. Most overrated shit I’ve ever seen.",
"This is mental illness it’s actually very sad. A refund indeed. But sad nonetheless",
"lol so what. are you so petty you can distinguish a bad concert experience from an album purchase?",
"I refuse to believe this, I used to browse plenty of other websites before I discovered Reddit.\n\n\nIf I could only remember what they were.....",
"Hahaha what?",
"Did I stutter?",
"Just let people have their opinion. Taste is subjective. \n\nAnd I'm brown, just so you know.",
"Can we not use gender specific adjectives? I think the correct term is “personic episode “ /s",
"Backstory?? Being a credited producer isn’t backstory, it’s a well known fact you muppet. Don’t claim “I’ve tried to listen to his music to see what people see or hear” when that clearly isn’t the case",
"He got MK Ultra’d after this",
"Yes",
"I didn't, learn to read lmao",
"Ok",
"You are a dumbass",
"Taco Bell has given me diarrhea on multiple occasions, but I keep going back. I figure this is kinda like that.",
"Haha so I interned at a recording studio when I was in college. The studio bought Sly's console from his home studio, they were telling me that when they got it, before they patched it in, they did a full tear down cleaning of it. They opened it up it up and shop vacced it out and they said the shop vac container was a 50% dust, 50% cocaine mixture.",
"Ehh. He went into a lot of “my rich friends snubbed me. Zuckerberg didn’t help me..” etc. I can see how that shapes perception etc, I’m well aware of mass medias influence. \n\nI’m going to spend some time today on Kid Cudi. Maybe I need a totally different album to see if it clicks. I keep listening to the first release.",
"Didn’t she suck dick and release the tape for fame? I think she’d drown her own children on Instagram live if it meant more good attention for her.",
"This happened after Yeezus, but I went for a Yeezus show and it was one of the best live performances I’ve ever seen.\n\nI would have gone to this show if I could have, fully expecting another awesome time.",
"Mental illness is no excuse for being a massive dick, especially for someone who can easily afford medication and even have medical staff with him 24/7.",
"It baffles me how this man generates a decent sized industry basically on his own.\n\nHe is a man child who does whatever he wants, and while I respect that, I would never in my life pay for anything with his name on it.",
"I'm not exactly a rap fan, but like to listen to the big albums just to know whats going on in pop culture.\n\nPlenty of albums I come out thinking \"Not quite for me, but I understand the talent and why someone would like it.\"\n\nNever had that with a Kanye album. I have never been able to see the \"genius.\"",
"I'll give you the same answer. lol\n\nTwat",
"He is just like Axl Rose but a whole new level.",
"Woah bro how could you not include my LoFi beats to study by??",
"I honestly don't get why people go to see him anymore. He's crazy.",
"Agreed. Aside from physically birthing/carrying the child, they literally have enough money to never need to see it again. Many people literally choose to have kids in a desperate attempt to save an already ruined/broken relationship. People certainly would have kids if it guaranteed millions of dollars.",
"The sad part is for a second I thought you were being completely serious before seeing the \"/s\" at the end. Some people really are that nuts about stuff.",
"Yeah. AXS is owned by AEG (arguably the biggest competitor to Live Nation (who owns Ticketmaster)), so any venue they own or operate (including those under subsidiaries or companies they have a stake in like Goldenvoice or The Bowery Presents) uses AXS for ticketing.",
"Nice, get to watch 3 songs, refund plus free covid",
"But what does that have to do with anything? Why does Rolling stones' one example of repeating words say anything about rappers rhyming words with other words? It's not like the rolling stones made laziness impossible, it's entirely contextual.",
">Reddit once again showing us ...\n\nIt's made up of millions of individuals, most of which are perfectly rational, and some are edgy 12 year olds. Anthropomorphising a website is not 'classy'; you're a turd in a sewer talking to other turds about how shitty turds are.",
"Hate us cuz they anus",
"Yeah, I listened to some of his songs and I don’t get it. I enjoy some radio but can’t stand his stuff.",
"Is this to compare to the Travis Scott thing? That’s not fully his fault. It’s someone’s job to keep up with the amount of people and space while he is the performer. If he is informed to end the concert then he is responsible or that",
"No, but to me that’s a personal offense. We don’t get many nights we can go out. We miss putting our kids to bed, we have to hire a babysitter, we get ourselves pumped for the night, then this shit happens.\n\nIf that shit happened to me I would be so done with him.",
"Damn, well done Ye then",
"Ah, that’s like me and Chipotle. Last time we went my daughter puked. I still crave it from time to time.\n\nShould have brought my Chipoltaway.",
"If it were well known, you dickhead, then I would have known it. \n\nAnd it is irrelevant for the song itself. I couldn´t care less if god himself has mixed it, the song has to work on its own.",
"But that doesn’t make me wrong so your comment doesn’t mean anything. At least you tried.",
"I don't really listen to the radio, but it's true I haven't heard all his music",
"\"don't like Jimi Hendrix music but whoever plays the guitar for him is pretty good\" . That is literally how you sound. Do an ounce of research next time dumbass",
"lol alright, I will do that and you can go fuck yourself!",
"I know that. My empathy wears thin when he refuses to take his meds and continues to be a narcissistic asshole.",
"Everyday I'm amazed at the absolute bellends that manage to get through life. good luck pal, sounds like you're gonna need it",
"every kid is another guaranteed income... plus the kardashians love kids. Its a win/win.",
"Ain't nobody got time for that",
"I thought the same. There are people who think producers are like band members. Insane right? Although in that case I think maybe a mental defect was involved.",
"you’re super unique man i bet you have all the beatles in your funko pop collection",
"Is that what your rap music taught you",
"I know for certainty there's not an instrument in the world you could pick up and play so whatever you're trying to say is fairly limp-dick. Have another try though",
"Yes, they are called Kanye fans. None of his albums are in the top 40 best sellers of all time, so it's fair to say Kanye fans are not the majority of hip hop fans.",
"*I know for certain",
"Humanity is so fucked.\n\nHow stupid do you got to be to waste time and money listening to some drugged-out animal curse and scream? And the place is packed. ROFL!!!!!!",
"What is this comment? It's not my end-all to prove you wrong, and my comments have meaning besides whether they prove you wrong or not. \n\nBut, yes, \"Reddit showing us how completely rational they are\" *is* wrong, both gramatically and contententually. Reddit is singular, and the users that make it up aren't of one mind.",
"The point is that the same-word-with-same-words-rhyme complaint is silly, and that there's tons of bands generally considered good that do this. There's legitimate complaints to be made about any music genre, I just don't think that one tends to hold much water and is disproportionately used to shit on rap, while it's a thing in many genres.",
"It's all about context. When the rolling stones did it, they did it with class. When Pitbull did it, it was lazy. Rap revolves more about lyrics than most other genres, so holding especially them accountable for their lyrics makes sense. I'm sorry, you were talking about how much you enjoy shitting on people with very weak gotcha traps, I didn't mean to completely derail that powerfantasy.",
"But if I lose my gotcha traps what will I have left besides a massive dong?\n\nWait actually nevermind you can have my gotcha trap, I'm quite happy.",
"Can I? So you won't pull out the 'You dislike lazy rap? Well do you like the Rolling Stones?' shtick anymore? Neat.",
"Honestly it's a fair counterargument nobody has made before in a discussion with me and I hadn't considered. I may not pull it out of my repertoire just yet but I will be considering the validity of it a bit more.",
"Kanye is not a 5 year old child. he's a grown ass man who can make his own decisions and suffer the consequences. if he's so mentally ill that he's not responsible for his actions, then who is legally responsible for him? go after that person. but that's not the case. he's legally fit and a grown ass man, so FUCK HIM. \n\ni've lost a best friend and others to mental illness. just cause someone is mentally ill, it doesn't mean i have to put up with their bullshit.",
"Hey you said I could have it :(",
"Fine! I'll stop using it, I can't go back on my word, you can have it, take good care of it though, I loved it like a child.",
"I have already thrown it into my mouldy basement and have started possionately neglecting it.",
"You got downvoted but this was really funny.",
"The funny part about complaining about rhyming the same words is that it shows such an elementary understanding of rhyme schemes. Like they think a rhyme only has to involve the last word of the line. \n\nOften when a rapper has a few bars that end with the same word, the rest of the line is rhyming too",
"it is yes. but the thing is, you are still responsible for your behavior and in america you are also responsible for your own mental health.\n\nno one is going to 5150 him. its like a drug addict who needs help, if you have the resources literally all you need to do is say you want help and it appears before you on a fucking silver platter. \n\nhe is refusing to do that and putting everyone around him in danger and ruining his life and career. he is still responsible for his actions whether he is delusional or not. if kanye kills someone he would still be found sane enough to stand trial and he would get life. hes clearly not completely detached from reality the way an actual insane person is, he wouldnt be able to function. \n\nhe is functioning, he lives a relatively normal life, hes just a delusional asshole. im so fucking tired of people making excuses for him while people suffer and die all over the country with real problems. kanye doesnt need or want your sympathy, millions of others do. fuck kanye.",
"So there are songs with two lines that have multiple interconnected rhyme schemes, and yet somehow the writers used the same word to end both sentences? Then there supposedly are people who miss the entire rhyme scheme and only focus on the latest word? I don't think this happens often. Can you name me some songs with decent rhyme scheme that ends with identical rhymes? It's hard to imagine that exists.\n\nNo, what I see criticised is how Pitbull rhymes 'picture that with a kodak' with 'take a picture of me with a kodak' or how Wocka had the verse “Throwing money in the air like I don’t really care/Standing on the chair like I don’t really care/Got b*tches by the pair, I’m baller of the year/And haters everywhere, but I don’t really care/No I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t really care.”\n\nLike, sure, air, chair, care, pair and year rhyme, but it's through 'elementary understanding' that I shit on this verse.",
"I think people have far more sympathy for the average person who suffers from treatable mental illness but does not have the money or resources at their disposal to get help for it (even if they want to), while people like Kanye West have access to resources that 99.998% of the world does not and yet spends a decade or so doing nothing but cashing in on his bad press.\n\nJust because someone has a mental illness does not equally mean they deserve your pity or empathy. Kanye could be on any number of meds within the hour he decides to get treated-- billions more people do not have that luxury and never will. Those people I genuinely feel sorry for. Not the billionaire.",
"i understand, ive dealt with this myself, ive dealt with these people a lot. \n\nthe yes men are definitely making things worse for him, thats why this is so frustrating for me. the best possible thing for kanye is that he experiences some real consequences for his behavior and that will never happen as long as he has people at his side and thousands of fans telling him hes the greatest. \n\nhe needs help. he needs to believe he needs help. its just going to continue to spiral and decline until he does something he cant come back from. thats what people are driving him to. \n\nall of that said, its still his decision to make, he cant be condemned, he will always be able to sign himself out of whatever treatment he goes in, he would have to choose to do it for himself, the reason that is the case is because he is sane and in full control of his behavior. its his choice to make. im tired of people saying that just because someone is mentally ill they are completely absolved of any responsibility in their actions while they destroy their life and other lives around them, its bullshit.",
"real big brain take over here comparing a suicide victim an egomaniac. awesome insight, thanks for sharing. those are totally exactly the same situation, its all mentall illness right? \n\nfuck off.",
"people LOVE to use mental illness as an excuse when they fuck up. \n\nive suffered so much in life because people refused to take responsibility for their behavior. thats why its cute and trendy to be mentally ill now, everyone is mentally ill. \n\nits not a joke. its not fun. mental illness isnt a fucking game and im sick of people romanticizing it.",
"as zaphod said, kanye isnt 5 and treating him like he is will never help him. \n\nif you think the state should step in, great! now you need to figure out a way to constitutionally justify detaining someone who is legally sane. good luck with that. \n\nthis is why these people never get help and spiral over and over and the cycle never ends, america has this cultural thing where they hate to hold people they like responsible for their behavior, you are \\*literally\\* infantilizing a grown ass fucking millionaire because he has symptoms of mental illness. \n\nwhat about the fucking millions of other people with mental illness? the people who are the entire reason i made this point in the first place? you dont even acknowledge them in this conversation, let alone in your solution to mental illness lol are we going to lock up and forcibly cure every single person in the country when they step out of line? or are we going to start treating people like human beings and give them the help they need?\n\nagain, the only difference between kanye and the average person who is crippled by mental illness is that he has the choice to get help every day and doesnt while all of those other people die in a fucking gutter. \n\ni knew these comments were coming but jesus fucking christ man, people will advocate for fascism before they hold their heros accountable for their own fucking actions. absolute insanity.",
"Yes, obviously. Which is why there was the question mark at the end of the sentence. Do you not know how language works?",
"There's no question mark at the end of the second sentence mate",
"Ah, can confirm, doesn't understand how language works. Ok thanks for the swift response.",
"Egomaniac, lol. You mean severely bipolar man clearly experiencing psychosis during a manic episode which he was literally hospitalised for. Mental illnesses you can just throw money at and fix you fucking brainless moron. That's the point, fuck off.",
"Lol Reddit's fickle.",
"i love how everyone interpreted my point as being about kanye being able to make coherent decisions (which he is) and completely ignored the point i was making about the average mentally ill person literally not having the resources he has and still constantly looking for help all the time and never getting it. \n\ncrazy how we still having sorted that out as a society, man i cant possibly figure out why that is. crazy.",
"\"There had to be better options for artists to see performing live\" is literally a statement, not a question. I know it can be difficult to wrap your head around but this is what I was responding to, so take your time to wrap your head around it",
"That statement was a preamble to a question you fucking troglodyte. Please learn to read and fuck off thank you very much.",
"i literally said he is delusional, what does that have to do with it being anyone elses responsibility for him getting help? \n\nMILLIONS of people choose to get help with their mental illness every single day and guess what? they dont get it because they lack the resources. \n\nwhat is kanyes excuse? what is the excuse you are making for him? why is he absolved of responsibility while people who actually put in the effort die in the street? explain it to me.",
"You're literally brain-dead if you're questioning why someone would be at a Kanye concert. Great job being unnecessarily pedantic when you know your original point was stupid as fuck",
">You're literally brain-dead if you're questioning why someone would be at a Kanye concert.\n\nYou don't understand the word literal or the combination word brain-dead. Either way, you're blocked you little troll. Have a shit life",
"Do I laugh now?! /u/jean_erik WAS THIS JOKE SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY?! \n#GUIDE ME TO THE CORRECT ANSWER\n\n^^^^^Just ^^^^^in ^^^^^case... ^^^^^/s",
"6 year old account, 77k karma, but your oldest comment dates back to yesterday? Do you just delete everything you've ever posted or something?",
"More pedantics because your point is still stupid and you know it",
"wat",
"You're super unique in your complete and utter misunderstanding of what being a twat is all about. \n\nI have over 600 gigs of music, ranging many many genres and centuries from Bach to Kanye. Pretty much everything except Country which we can all agree is terrible \n\nStop being such a whiny little bitch, stop making assumptions, and move the fuck off your parent's couch.\n\nTwat.",
"> I have over 600 gigs of music, ranging many many genres and centuries from Bach to Kanye\n\nyeah man i’m sure you worked with Bach\n\n> move the fuck off your parent's couch.\n\ninvariably this one is always projection",
"Reddit is singular but is comprised of multiple users (they). \n\nPlease stop embarrassing yourself.",
"You're bad at this. Enjoy being a twat",
"You’re bad at making a living apparently \n\nParents couch may be your home soon",
"> The Beatles STILL influence music more than Kanye ever will. It's not even close.\n\nif you mean old and boring bands that no one listens to yeah i’m sure they were a HUGE inspiration\n\nfor anytning that slaps? no",
"i never said it was? \n\nyou, along with a lot of other people keep trying to put words in my mouth lol its really a weird and disingenuous thing for someone to do while they claim to give a fuck about this subject. \n\nthe point i was making which people seem to be gleefully ignoring to defend kanye, is that the vast majority of people with mental illnesses \n\n1. dont have the resources to address them\n2. dont have millions of people constantly making excuses and defending them when they do some fucked up shit.\n\ni see posts on this website every single day where people are saying that someone who is CLEARLY going full nuclear in their mental state deserves to be thrown in prison or exiled from society. \n\nthese people try to get help and are refused, they choose to seek out help and are rejected, that is the point i was making. \n\ni dont understand why people are so freely offering their sympathy and acceptance for a guy who actively rejects any attempt to improve his mental health yet condemn millions of people to a painful and miserable death in a gutter who do everything in their power to sort their lives out and literally just cant. \n\njust because you see kanye as a fucking infant who is completely incapable of controlling himself or his actions doesnt mean he is, hes a grown man. being delusional doesnt mean you just get to go around and do whatever the fuck you want. he isnt immune to criticism just because he is unwell. \n\nits hypocrisy, its a double standard. at least be consistent, either everyone should seek to improve their mental health and they are responsible for their own well being, or no one is.",
"Cars wouldn’t exist without the wheel so i guess we can attribute its invention to the stone age right?\n\nwhenever i get frustrated that i’m losing an argument i’ll usually call the person little guy or little buddy as well i get it",
"You know nothing about me, fuck off with your presumptions.\n\nKanye West is not 'delusional' here, he's experiencing psychosis for which he was later hospitalised. You're literally just stating psychosis/mental illness is a choice.\n\nIt absolutely isn't a double standard. People suffering from this condition are not able to turn it on and off. You are the one here with the double standards because you seem to think mental health is somehow optional. Perhaps Robin Williams really should have chosen to not have depression then I suppose? Yikes.",
"Thanks m8",
"Is there any actual proof of that assertion?\n\nMeanwhile there is ample evidence of Kanye West being a narcissistic psycho.",
"Yeah there are exceptions but I think my point still stands. Don't get me wrong I love me some Atmosphere, and MF Doom is dope. Cunninlynguists come to mind as well. But for the most part, all the previous artists talked about mental health in a much more.. self defensive way. Their lyrics tend to show frustration, anger, all really classically male emotional responses. Their personas limited their ability to talk about it with the openness that Cudi had. And MotM is an entire album dedicated to the subject, not just a song or two.",
"> You think the Beatles just sang songs about holding hands\n\nmy bad they also made songs about being a walrus \n\n> Kanye won't be on any lists in 50 years.\n\nsmooth brained take. maybe not on your list that consists of old bands",
"^ this but it’s you with old rock dudes who can’t make the bass slap",
"Damn, like clockwork. Too easy.",
"is kanye west a grown adult capable of making decisions on his own or not? \n\ni have friends who arent. i have worked with people who arent. those people dont get to choose. kanye does. \n\nwhere the fuck in this entire thread did i say that someone having an episode of psychosis is capable of making the decision to get help? why even try to make the point when i clearly didnt. its bad faith, again you dont actually care about this subject lol no assumption needed. \n\ni cant comprehend why you would want to keep bringing up robin williams outside of pure malice, my father committed suicide when i was 15, i relate very much to that situation and having you sit here and try to weaponize it over this conversation that you obviously only care about because it involves kanye west is pretty disgusting. it has absolutely nothing to do with anything ive said here. \n\nrobin williams may have, like my father, suffered abuse or some extreme trauma that regardless of how much treatment or medication he endured still effected him and was inescapable for him. that isnt evident with kanye, he has openly opposed medication and therapy, which robin williams embraced and still ended up losing to depression. \n\nso let me reiterate my point for you again.\n\nthe criticism im making with kanye is that he is REFUSING HELP. thats the difference between him and every other person brought up in this conversation, including the vast majority of the country.",
"I miss the old kanye",
"The fuck story is this? Sounds fake bro.",
"What you're attempting to do is referred to as [argumentum ad populum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum). You also promptly resorted to [ad hominem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) when I declined to argue with you.\n\nYou could have been constructive from the very beginning but instead decided to try to swing your dick around.",
"You sound really bothered by all of this it is ok man you don't know a lot about Nas",
"lol",
"You poor little thing. It's clear now you aren't in the 18-29 college educated band. I'll break it down for you again, hopefully ay a level that penetrates the dense layer of bone you possess where others have actual neurons firing as brain matter.\n\nYou don't know shit about what the initial commentator did prior to posting. Stop inventing facts that suit you, fuck up. \n\nInitial comment observes that reddit users exhibit a habit of punching down on users with mental health issues that aren't depression. That's the hypocrisy you maldeveloped foetal reject: Redditors in general support posts about depressed people cleaning up their rooms but comment negatively about posts showing people in psychotic or manic states. \n\nThis is a) True b) Easily recognised c) too fucking complicated for a dumbass whose mother really should have opted for anal rather than give birth to such an arsehole. \n\nReddit users collectively display similar behaviours and choices. Disdain for emotes is one such example. Commenting on buzz feed being bad at journalism is another. While some individuals on reddit may express a different opinion, the upvotes and comments consistently follow redditors that display behaviours the Reddit hive mind recognizes. That behaviour includes the aforementioned depressed cleaning room (upvote) and psychosis/manic episodes (downvote). So, this is the 2nd time I'm nailing the turgid nail of my throbbing knowledge through your thick skull of ignorance; Reddit collectively behaves a certain observable way, and; that behaviour displays hypocrisy when related to posts about mental health.\n\nYou're poor little challenged brain couldn't handle someone conversationally making a generalisation about Reddit you would accept in any other situation. \"Cats don't like water\" is demonstrably untrue if you examine every cat, however is true for the majority of cats to the point that it is an acceptable generalisation. \"It is hypocritical for cats to drink water from a bowl but to hate getting sprayed by a hose\" can be debated by reasonable people as long as fuck up try hard dumbfucks like yourself don't bray ignorantly \"NOT ALL CATS DRINK FROM BOWLS\". Are you even now understanding just how consistently dumb you have been all your life? Can you fucking choose to learn and improve yourself here rather than continue to be the arsehole that everyone despises?\n\nFinally, just check the awards and upvote initial comment received that you did not. That is the reddit hive mind rewarding the comment for resonating with the reddit hive mind. You malingering shit head.",
"I hate that stupid argument. \n\nIt takes responsibility away from Kanye and him refusing to take his medication. \n\n\nIt also perpetuates the stupid misogynistic stereotype/belief that women ruin men. \n\n\nI love Kanye. He is the GOAT. At least, he's my GOAT. I've been a huge fan since I heard Through the Wire on MTV when it came out. But I'm not going to give him excuses for not taking care of his mental health. Being married with kids to someone who has BP isn't easy. Sure, you can argue that Kim K is a superficial reality tv star. But the fact that people think she got with Kanye for publicity or that her and her family ruined Kanye....yeah no.",
"You're the only one bringing up any stereotype. Not sure why in the common era we have to analyze every interaction, every individual, by their group identity. People are individuals, and each person behaves and acts uniquely.\n\nWhat I'm saying only applies to Kanye and Kim K, I'm not saying a thing about men or women as a group. So please stop projecting your worldview into my comments!",
"I wish it were. At one point Trick Daddy's hateful self could do no wrong in my eyes, he was a favorite since childhood. On top of everything else I was heart broken, and never went out to a club/concert again because of the wrestling match with the bouncer. It was around ten years ago, I had just got out of the Army and it was my first night out back home.",
"It's incredibly clear he was having a mental health episode here. I almost feel sad for him.",
"Buddy, I listen to Hank Williams and Willie Nelson most of the time. That's what growing up and being an adult taught me. Sorry I forget that this site is run by 14 year olds, 10 years ago that was normal to me. Now I remember why I stay off of the internet.",
"Bingo, why do you think I still go on Reddit at 24? Not for other people's garbage, I got my own load of real world problems and the perfect pile of shit to add to.",
"Ok.",
"I misread the title and realised that now \"celebrities\" will start using the \"WE NEED TO STOP! HELP THE PEOPLE IN THE CROWD!\" as part of their performance to boost their status..",
"\n>\tSome people really are that nuts about stuff.\n\n\nCan we not use ableistic phrases? The word is mental illness. \n\n\n/s",
"Kanye Regressed! Jesus doesn’t walk with him anymore.",
"As a person who lives under a rock, I gave Escape plan an honest try. All I heard was \"bacon bacon *baaaacooooon,* mumble mumble *baaaacooooon*\" \n\nI prefer my rock.",
"Give it a try, why else do dumps exist. You'll thank me later when you get along with everyone in the real world and nobody can figure out why you can deal with so much shit. Flussshh.",
"Ok.",
"You don't like listening, do you?",
"Uh huh.",
"You don't spend very much time in the real world, do you?",
"Sure.",
"Dude, Bipolar 1 is up there with schizophrenia in messing up one’s cognitive ability to make judgments and decisions. Here’s what the mayo clinic has to say about it: \n\nBipolar disorder, formerly called manic depression, is a mental health condition that causes extreme mood swings that include emotional highs (mania or hypomania) and lows (depression).\n\nWhen you become depressed, you may feel sad or hopeless and lose interest or pleasure in most activities. When your mood shifts to mania or hypomania (less extreme than mania), you may feel euphoric, full of energy or unusually irritable. These mood swings can affect sleep, energy, activity, judgment, behavior and the ability to think clearly.\n\nBipolar I disorder. You've had at least one manic episode that may be preceded or followed by hypomanic or major depressive episodes. In some cases, mania may trigger a break from reality (psychosis).\n\nMania and hypomania\n\nMania and hypomania are two distinct types of episodes, but they have the same symptoms. Mania is more severe than hypomania and causes more noticeable problems at work, school and social activities, as well as relationship difficulties. Mania may also trigger a break from reality (psychosis) and require hospitalization.\n\nBoth a manic and a hypomanic episode include three or more of these symptoms:\n\nAbnormally upbeat, jumpy or wired\nIncreased activity, energy or agitation\nExaggerated sense of well-being and self-confidence (euphoria)\nDecreased need for sleep\nUnusual talkativeness\nRacing thoughts\nDistractibility\nPoor decision-making — for example, going on buying sprees, taking sexual risks or making foolish investments\n\nYes it can be managed, but management requires a lot more than just popping meds, and it’s never cured -it’s a lifelong struggle and you can be doing well for years and slip up do to life events, for example it’s common for having a child to cause manic episodes for various reasons like lack of sleep. \n\nYou are coming off as extremely crass and ignorant about Type 1 Bipolar disorder. Also, there are much much worse artists have done terrible things. In this case yes he wasted people’s time, but they all got a refund. Compare that to Chris Brown or Led Zepplin’s underage groupies…I really don’t know why your commenting so much disdain for this guy. \n\nAgain Type 1 Bipolar disorder is simply a worse medical prognosis than depression or anxiety.",
"Classic case of not wanting to give mentally ill people a massive platform to influence young people, but go off I guess.",
"> not an opinion, widely accepted\n\nHappy, nitpicker? Jesus Christ, why are you so upset that I accurately paraphrased you?\n\nWidely accepted is the same thing as \"a lot of people are saying it.\"\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum",
"Yah man I feel like accurately quoting people is an important thing to do, and it did change the meaning of what I was trying to say so I felt I should point it out, and I couldn't tell if you were coming after me or not tbh, mb i get defensive sometimes",
">is kanye west a grown adult capable of making decisions on his own or not?",
"Ok…16 is kinda borderline, especially considering the age of consent laws at the time. This doesn’t suddenly make David Bowie a pedophile.",
"He is an adult who suffers from a severe mental illness that can impact judgment and decision making. It’s more nuanced than a yes or no can he make decisions on his own. Again, shortly after this show he was literally hospitalized for his illness.",
"no it isnt. you are just infinitely willing to defend him as a fan. period. \n\none of my closest friends has a severe TBI that left them with a dead spot in their brain that if they arent medicated they will and have had psychosis episodes. they have gotten completely naked and started drawing all over themselves, speaking nonsense, talking about things like its 2010 again, they wandered naked into the woods and almost fucking died. \n\nthis person is still 100% in control of their medical decisions. \n\nits not complicated, when someone is in a state of psychosis, yes, obviously they cant be trusted to make decisions, i literally never said they were.\n\nhowever, when they arent in a state of psychosis, they are themselves. the doctors literally ask them what they want to do, if they think their medication is working, they choose whether or not they want to go to therapy etc. \n\nand guess what, it works. they are on a medication and see a therapist and after a few extremely terrifying and traumatic years of seeing my friend almost die and change into a husk of what they used to be, they are themselves again. they drive, they have a job, they live a completely normal life. \n\nyou can google stuff and make excuses and say whatever you want, but kanye is a grown fucking man who has a perfectly functioning brain. yes he has problems, who the fuck doesnt. \n\nhe, himself, CONSCIOUSLY, refuses treatment. \n\nthere is absolutely no justification for it, what so fucking ever. period. you are delusional if you think otherwise.",
"I can agree with your points. It's definitely one of Kanye's least creative albums but I'm sure he has a lot more albums to come.\n\nEdit: And Kanye is a divisive personality. He decides opinions but I feel he does mind that & probably thrive on that.",
"I feel like you have to watch keeping up with the Kardashians to know that that family would totally do anything to stay famous. You are also treating it like they aren't rich and actually have to raise their kids. My wife watches them and I have no doubt that Kim would do that.",
"Reddit probably the worst website for group think on the internet. mob mentality \"I hate this guy right now. upboat that title alludes someone else did it better\"",
"He is literally diagnosed though",
"It’s them, they’re the sheep"
] | 1,184 |
videos
|
Kanye West ending his concert early when he realizes that his fans are in danger of hearing the rest of it
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw3-9v4dcns&t=-13s
|
/r/videos/comments/qq4ps6/most_popular_fastfood_restaurants_20042021/
|
[
"Wow had no idea Dominoes was that popular. Their pizza is kinda trash besides the pan style.",
">according to google trends search analysis from 2004 to 2021\n\nIMO, dominos is so high up there because people are just searching for their favorite pizza fast food, so they can order it for delivery online. A lot of these other brands probably are more heavily partnered with doordash and similar companies, so people type 'doordash' into their search bar instead of 'dominoes'. \n\nMost of these, I think, are publicly traded. Would be more work, but you could probably pull sales data and get a much more meaningful result set.",
"I don’t consider pizza shops to be fast food. To me, fast food means you can order a single meal at the counter and have it in a few minutes. \n\nA pizza is 10-15 minutes and some Pizza Hits still have sit down dining with servers.",
"populärt vart? jag ser inga dominos här? och en till sak? fråga jag?",
"Lol, Popeye’s.",
"I'm surprised Dominoes is anywhere close to the top early on because their pizza was cardboard quality. But they pushed out a new recipe that is actually on par with other pizza brands in late 2000s. So it's strange if they were making money (presumably for being top 4) why they would change it."
] | 6 |
videos
|
Most Popular Fast-Food Restaurants (2004-2021)
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74z65DXdN2o
|
/r/videos/comments/qq5ex8/video_shows_popup_synagogue_in_ukraine_unfolding/
|
[
"Getting some serious Ari Aster vibes from this.",
"This is so creepy. I imagine half the creepiness is the music but the concept is the other half. Religion just coming to your neighborhood and unfolding like that.",
"No seriously, what the fuck up is with the horror movie music in the background?",
"Gee I wonder why there so few synagogues in Ukraine.",
"Normal scene with no narrative content made \"creepy\" with dumb aural type music. If it had a toxic as fuck message I'd definitely agree on the Ari vibes.",
"[Context](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-unveils-folding-pop-up-book-synagogue-site-babyn-yar-massacre-2021-05-14/)",
"I mean it's not like they just unfolded a synagogue in some random place. It's closer to a piece of artwork to pay respect to the thousands of Jews massacred there.",
"a transformer...",
"Rabbis in disguise...with glasses! (It’s a song reference)\n\nAlso, in Family Guy Optimus is Jewish.",
"Is the Sierra Madre nearby? Only explanation I can find for that horrifying music",
"It’s near a Holocaust site",
"It’s at a Holocaust memorial",
"Music is awful. Watch with volume off.",
"Without the music, I get a more Mel Brooks vibe.",
"Yeah. You wouldn't want those \"creepy\" Jews showing up in your neighborhood, right?\n\n/s",
"I'd listen to that over Travis Scott any day.",
"Regime that cared more about maintaining a trade surplus than keeping Ukrainians alive (the Soviets) followed by literal Nazis (the Nazis).",
"It's at the site of one of the biggest holocaust massacres. The music symbolizes just that.",
"The headline oversold it.",
"Any religion"
] | 20 |
videos
|
Video shows pop-up synagogue in Ukraine unfolding like a book
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFEFdufsj50
|
/r/videos/comments/qq5jae/duck_runs_the_nyc_marathon_extra_footage/
|
[
"He just loves to run",
"I love how we can understand that the duck just went Usain bolt mode",
"dude was running away from Chinatown",
"Gives new meaning to duck duck go!!!!",
"I love how we all come here yeadayada to see a youtubee make money just coping pasta a video over and over to make a 2 min video of a duck.\nHu yes. Go duck du go duck woho",
"Hahaha",
"Wrinkle spotted:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/qn73xp/what_the_duck/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf",
"Nice",
"Usain Molt",
"No one can stop me from upvoting only running duck videos",
"Forget it, drake, it's Chinatown.",
"Aflac must be all over him.....\n\n...as a sponsor to run in other marathons.",
"It's Jake, but yeah",
"But Jake isn't a duck pun.",
"Is he wearing shoes?",
"Headline: Wrinkle runs a fowl."
] | 17 |
videos
|
Duck Runs the NYC Marathon (extra footage!)
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5k34/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qq5k34/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"Woah , PS5 Got lots of records , including secuirity issues i see ahah",
"Man, you aren't kidding. \n\nThe Xbox One is notoriously difficult to jailbreak apparently. Just checked out the Xbox modding sub and there's nothing about XB1. As recently as 8days ago, the answer is simply \"there are no jailbreaks for the XB1. \n\nMicrosoft, unsurprisingly, don't fuck around with security especially when it comes to profit!\n\nThat makes it's crazier that this gen PS has been done already, then.",
"Gooooooooooooood\n\nWith online games and streaming becoming more and more rampant this is needed for game preservation 100%",
"I don't understand what you mean?",
"Loads of older games will most likely never again become available for their modern equivalent systems. Nintendo is sitting on top of potentially thousands of games that will probably never be rereleased. The only way for people to access these games is to buy the games and the old hardware which are becoming increasingly rare, the older systems are typically in poor condition, and prices for the old games/systems are on the rise. The other option to this is to emulate these game files.",
"Add in the fact that nintendo released a whole bunch of mario games redone for the switch FOR A LIMITED TIME, now no one can buy those games.",
"Those games (physically) are WIDELY available. Over the past couple months I have hit a number of physical stores that stock video games and there are so many unopened copies available.\n\nBut to your point, video game companies are extremely spotty with their own libraries and the only feasible way to play these games is via emulation.",
"Yup. At least in my area i can go in any store that sells switch games and they have minimum of 10 copies",
"Ok. I have an emulator on the xbox. I had to use developer mode though.",
"Definitely. Still, it's a marvel no one has cracked a XB1. Especially this long after it's life cycle. Very impressive!",
"Well, it _is_ faster, so.",
"There is another BIG factor.\n\nYou don't have to jailbreak an xbox to run homebrew. You can just side load software in developer mode. And that's what most people with the ability to do such work want to do, so they don't bother cracking it.\n\nYou can just install emulators on your xbox one for instance without any hacks. You switch to developer mode and sideload them.\n\nI feel this is the major factor in why the xbox is not cracked so quickly or ever, there is very little to gain, apart from piracy. And allot of the hacking scene don't actually want to enable piracy. They are doing it to be able to run their own software on the device, and the xbox one lets you do that already. So there is just less desire amongst hackers to crack the thing.\n\nAdd to this that fewer people care about the xbox compared to the ps4/ps5. Sony console sell on average twice as well as their generational equivelent xbox.\n\nSo there are less people trying to hack it, less benefits from hacking it, and as you said possibly less exploits available.\n\nyou end up with a sort of trifecta that make the console less hacked.",
"As i mentioned here https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5k34/the_ps5_got_jailbroken_in_less_time_than_any/hjyx942/\n\nYou don't need to hack the xbox one to side load software, so people don't want to hack it basically.",
"Using \"jailbroken\" in its most liberal form.",
"> Add to this that fewer people care about the xbox compared to the ps4/ps5. Sony console sell on average twice as well as their generational equivelent xbox.\n> \n> \n\nJust for the PS4/Xbox One era tho. The 360 sold roughly the same as the PS3 (PS3 edged it out in the end, but not by a lot). On the flip side, the PS2 sold like... 6 times as much as the original Xbox.\n\nThe PS5/Xbox Series duel seems to be going the same way as the PS4/Xbox One, but it is still early.\n\nAnyway, certainly the Playstation as a brand has sold better than the Xbox, and you're right that the bigger popularity leads to more hacking."
] | 15 |
videos
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[deleted by user]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAGjuRwx_Y8
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/r/videos/comments/qq5mro/i_asked_the_leader_of_the_hadzabe_tribe_a_remote/
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[
"Tldw: the answer is food…because they are hunter gatherers…and if they dont find food they starve. \n\nIs this title really implying we Should go back to a ‘simpler’ time when the most important thing to worry about was not starving to death?",
"Baboons",
"Food is good for me too.",
"r/im14andthisisdeep",
"Don't forget to report this post and account for link farming everyone. Just check his history, it's disgusting.",
"The meaning of life should be self-fulfillment. It doesn't matter what you do, whatever helps you reach self-fulfillment is the meaning of your life.\n\nSure, for this tribe the meaning of life is to hunt for food, but if you gave them a farm with livestock and grains - and the knowledge to cultivate their resources - their meaning of life would change. Because it wouldn't be fulfilling to spend all your time hunting animals when you can just raise them on your farm.\n\nAnd so on, for most of us it wouldn't feel fulfilling to be farmers when we have the choice to be something else and still have food on the table every day."
] | 6 |
videos
|
I asked the leader of the Hadzabe Tribe, a remote Hunter & Gatherers tribe in Africa, What's the most important thing in life? The answer was short and simple. Have we made our lives too complicated?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5s77/deleted_by_user/
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/r/videos/comments/qq5s77/deleted_by_user/
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[
"Zack de la Rocha was a force to be reckoned with when he led RATM. I miss that band so much. I have never felt the passion and fury in any other band compared to them. The band members are great musicians and the stuff they did outside of RATM was decent, but nothing compared to what they did when Zack was the front man. He is a genius.",
"Only modern band I’ve seen come close is incendiary",
"Lol so you've missed the hypocrisy that they are now rich and don't care anymore but just act like it to get people to concerts and sell CDs \n\nEveryone hates the rich, till they become one\n\nAlso Tom is good friends with Ted Nugent can look that up haha",
"Well I will be checking them out immediately then. Thank you!",
"Zack got his start in the hardcore band “inside out.” Much of what he brought to rage came from his hardcore roots so I’d recommend exploring the genre of you haven’t already! Incendiary and rotting out would be good places to start. Verse is a melodic hardcore band from providence that is a little less hard but arguably harder hitting. And then if you like verse, taking a look at have heart from Massachusetts wouldn’t be a bad taste. Tons of politics and anger in the genre and hundreds of bands to choose from. Happy hunting!\n\n\nEdit: minority unit",
"I didn't miss it. I miss the original band though. I know they don't need to play anymore, and I am sure he would write very differently since he doesn't have the same kind of concerns or life anymore. I wanted to say \"He was a genius\" but it sounded like he was gone and he's not, but I don't think he could ever write like that again.\n\nOh god, Tom.....why?! I can't even imagine having to listen to Nugent talk for more than a minute or two, let alone be a friend with him. Ugh. That's really too bad.",
"Thank you! I will check all this out!",
"How dare they make money for their art.",
"It takes a certain level of maturity to [have a relationship with someone you disagree with](https://ultimateclassicrock.com/tom-morello-ted-nugent/).",
"Very true. My son has a friend that has the same sort of polar opposite dichotomy and yet they remain friends. He is very patient because I know his friend doesn't show the same level of maturity.",
"I wish Zach would join **Run The Jewels** as a full member. His tracks with them are always on point and fit very well with their aggressively progressive style."
] | 12 |
videos
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[deleted by user]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a_arwYa2Zw
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/r/videos/comments/qq5zr9/grosskreutz_admits_that_kyle_rittenhouse_only/
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[
"What if Kyle Rittenhouse is a horrible racist thug who also didn't violate the law because our law doesn't recognize going out looking for a confrontation as a problem and cares only for whether your life was in danger at the moment you used lethal force?",
"Then he goes free, because the government does not punish people unless they break the law. Which is as it should be.",
"What if you used punctuation?",
"You know he's a racist thug based on what exactly?",
"If you think something should be against the law, you should lobby your law makers to make it so. Until then, we can't make up laws and can only apply what is on the books.",
"Self defense is self defense. What if ‘KR’ was a woman? Still won’t make a damn bit of difference.",
"You could try an campaign to change the laws in your state",
"Because people don’t get arrested for thoughtcrime.",
">our law ... cares only for whether your life was in danger at the moment you used lethal force?\n\nAre you one of the prosecution? Because you both unironically are making great cases for the defense.",
">What if Kyle Rittenhouse is a horrible racist thug who also didn't violate the law? Because our law doesn't recognize going out looking for a confrontation as a problem. The law cares only for whether your life was in danger at the moment you used lethal force?\n\nThere. I fixed it a little. \n\nIt's a valid point.",
"Yet.",
"Uh, wasn't that after Kyle shot two people?",
"I mean... It's true. Did the prosecution expect him to lie over what physically happened?",
"He literally flashed a white power sign at a bar after he was bailed out",
"This case should never have been brought. It’s such a travesty of Justice. At worst Kyle will get manslaughter. Maybe a misdemeanor weapons charge. At best I’m hoping the jury, in disgust against the state, finds him innocent of all charges.",
"are you saying hes a fascist protected by the system because he doing fascism?\n\nbecause id say your on to something there...\n\nconservatives the type of people to go on about how 5+5 isn't the same thing as 10\n\nand you can equal it out for them and they will respond with \"but it clearly says 5+5 and thats different\"\n\nconservatism in a nutshell. \n\nkyle is a member of proud boys and fired the first shot of the conservative coup against America. he showed up to shoot protestors. he arrived on scene with intent to kill. \n\nhe's a fascist and they are terrorizing Americans to be afraid of protesting. in Florida you can now murder someone with a car if their protest doesn't have a permit. \n\nfascism is the ideological subscription of kyle and all his defenders. it wasn't self defense. it was fomentation.",
"in self defense.",
"It was and people were shouting, 'that guy just shot someone' - he was pointing his gun at an active shooter.\n\nEdit: I fully understand where your hindsight comes from. They knew he shot someone. They didn't know why. They knew he was trying to walk away. They tried to stop the person who just shot someone.",
"Yes. Grosskreutz testified that \"jump kick man\" ran at Kyle, and got shot sometime in the sequence of \"jumping over/on\" Kyle. \n\nGrosskreutz then testified that Huber swung at Kyle with a skateboard and made some sort of contact. At some point Grosskreutz said Huber hit Kyle in the head with the skateboard and got shot afterwards.\n\nGrosskreutz also said he wasn't chasing Kyle, just running in the same direction. Grosskreutz also said he wasn't intentionally pointing his gun at Kyle, but said the picture of him pointing his gun at Kyle shows he did point his gun at Kyle at some point.",
"I'm facepalming at all of social media over this case, including here.",
"This doesn't show anything about the prosecution's reaction.\n\nEdit: it does!",
"The evidence presented thus far by the prosecution and defense clearly shows he's not racist and did not go 'out looking for a confrontation',",
"In self defense...",
"Why not? He lied to the police in multiple sworn statements.",
"You should turn off your tv.",
"Seeking out a place where violence is happening is not acting in the interest of one’s own safety, if Kyle feared for his life it’s because he purposely put himself in a life threatening situation with the hopes that he would get to shoot people. One could hardly argue he made a concerted effort to “defend himself,” by going out of his way to put himself in harm’s way.",
"Today I learned flashing the A-OK sign makes you a white supremacist",
"So you admit his life was in danger by violent rioters.",
"Of which he was a member, yes. You don’t get to claim self defense after purposely putting yourself in a situation in which you have to defend yourself.",
"Yeah, right. Hispanic KR shot 3 lily-white guys because he’s a white supremacist. \n\nSure.",
"Blame women for getting raped, too?",
"No proof he knew what the sign meant in some communities",
"That’s a pretty big reach there.",
"Is there a better shot of the facepalm? I do this sort of thing all the time. That doesn't exactly seem like such a big deal. Or is that something that all prosecutors are trained not to do? Also wouldn't the prosecutor know that this was exactly what he would testify? It didn't seem like a gotcha.",
"It does at the verrry end [@ 0:43](https://youtu.be/2a_arwYa2Zw?t=43)",
"Yeah, right. Hispanic KR shot 3 lily-white guys because he’s a white supremacist.\n\nSure.",
"After being driven to the riots? The ones he was originally hours away from?",
"In the mentally Ill eyes of the deranged left, yes.",
"You can’t lie in a sworn statement to law enforcement without repercussions.",
"> This case should never have been brought. It’s such a travesty of Justice. At worst Kyle will get manslaughter. \n\nUh, if Rittenhouse is guilty then the case should absolutely be brought.",
"I think its arguable he made a concerted effort to not shoot people in the way he ran when confronted in both events with Rosenbaum and later the mob. Only shooting when necessary. \n\nHad Kyle been the bloodthirsty monster you make him out to be, Why run? he could have raised rifle and blew Rosenbaum away on the spot.",
"> The ones he was originally hours away from?\n\nMaybe if he walked, according to Google Maps downtown Kenosha is about 20 miles from downtown Antioch. If you measure from the edge of each town/city it's more like half that.",
"Good that he told the truth. No matter what you may think of Kyle Rittenhouse as a person or his motivations, this case is only concerned with the law.\n\nShould Kyle have stayed the fuck home? Yes.\n\nDid he have any business walking the streets armed with a rifle? Definitely not.\n\nWere his actions self-defense according to state law? Based on the evidence, it certainly looks that way.\n\n\nIf you can't see that, then you're letting your feelings cloud your judgment.\n\n\n\nEDIT: To the people saying that the rioters should have stayed home too, you're completely missing the point. In the context of this trial, it doesn't matter whether or not Kyle or the rioters should have stayed home, and it doesn't matter whether or not Kyle should or shouldn't have had a gun. If it was up to me everyone should have stayed home. The facts are that Kyle was there, the protestors/rioters/looters were there, and there is no changing that. Again, the crux of this trial is determining whether or not Kyle's actions qualify as self-defense in accordance with Wisconsin law.",
"He had every right to be there. More so than the violent rioters. No law was broken by him physically being there.",
"Self defense argument evaporated the second he put himself in a situation willingly.\n\nRegardless of the courts this or that, the kid is a murderer who went there to murder people with a firearm he shouldn't have had open access to. Nothing changes that fact. We all know.",
"It’s starting to feel like that. Everyone once in a while, assholes show up and act like assholes but with a bit of a discipline and a little luck, don’t actually break any laws. \n\nI can’t fault anyone for assuming the worst about Kyle, but based of what I have seen and heard, he at least has plausible deniability.",
"Oh I made him out to be a bloodthirsty killer? Please show me where I painted him in such a light.",
"Rittenhoused is going to be a new term",
"The truth of that claim is suspect. We can confirm Kyle *felt* his life was in danger, and that he specifically went out of his way to be in a place, with a gun, where he would probably feel his life was in danger. But that doesn’t definitely mean that the protest was itself violent or dangerous.",
"Its a whole 20 miles from Antioch to Kenosha. Yeah, hours away. lol",
"and let fascism spread unabated? \n\nwho the fuck watches tv...",
"Same logic. If a woman drives to a sketchy bar while wearing skimpy clothes and gets raped, was it her fault for putting herself in that potentially dangerous situation?",
"Can you cite the law to which you’re referring?",
"You have no idea what the law is or how it works.\n\nYour right to self defense doesn’t get nullified because you walk into an unsavory neighborhood.",
"That’s an entirely different situation, the act of violence is happening to the rape victim, Kyle sought out violence, but nice try.",
"He wasn't in the situation willingly, Rosenbaum was forcing kyle into defending himself.",
">he purposely put himself in a life threatening situation with the hopes that he would get to shoot people.",
"so the good guy with a gun they keep talking about is a leftist?",
"Ya no...he worked in Kenosha. Did you just happen to forget that too?",
"Luckily, his mom was there.",
"He’s not. By any stretch of the imagination. Or any fact of law. And he’s soon to be found as much.",
"In self defense",
"I mean why else would you drive across state lines with a semi-automatic rifle other than with the hopes of using it? If you don’t want to kill people, just don’t go.",
"You're right, he could have just been laying his head down. It's not the focal point. Kyle did look like he was tearing up though, so although not a gotcha as the video evidence already showed as much, it is an important point.",
"Am active shooter who only shot people attacking him and was running away",
"I mean, this dude didnt stay home and was armed with a handgun. The idea that rittenhouse had less right to be there than anyone else is nonsense.",
"He had as much right as the violent rioters to walk the streets and he has a right to keep and bear arms.",
"I had to go read the wikipedia page to remember the events and you are correct? Isn't this exactly the 'good guy with a gun' scenario looks like? Actually would Grosskreutz be doing self defense if Kyle shot him in the bicep? The window of time that self-defense can be claimed is such a clusterfuck of legal definition.",
"I'm willing to be wrong about that point. I should have Google Mapped Antioch and Kenosha first.",
"The prosecution has done nothing to prove that he is guilty. We've known for a year that it was self defense. the deny that the trial isn't a political one In hopes to prevent riots is intellectually dishonest.",
"What an absolute shit show. There’s so many things that can all be true at once but sorting them out and deciding who is guilty of what crime becomes a logistical nightmare in this case. \n\nRegardless of legality and the outcome of this trial; My first feelings are to question open carry laws, especially in the midst of protests. Maybe it could be possible to zone off areas with temporary open carry bans until the police can sort out protests/riots to avoid the public taking the law into their own hands. Assuming there isn’t a large line of thinking that sees no issue with a sort of “vigilante justice” because it would kind of go against the basic idea of policing?",
"I believe that’s what we call “victim blaming”. \n\nGirl walks into unsavory neighborhood and someone assaults her? Better just take it, because you shouldn’t have been there in the first place…",
"It's more along the lines of someone saying that a woman who dresses in skimpy clothes is just asking to be sexually harassed. Is dressing that way a good idea? Maybe and maybe not, but that's the joy of freedom within the confines of the law.",
"HahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaha",
"It’s. Public. Property. \n\nO.o",
"He was illegally carrying and breaking curfew, so I don’t know if “he had every right to be there” is an accurate statement. You could say the same of anyone else there who wasn’t participating in vandalism. He did break the law regardless of the shooting. \n\nHe may have an argument for justifiable self-defense, but he wouldn’t have been there with a gun in the first place if he was obeying the law and obeying curfew.",
"I realize he deserves a fair trial, but the thought of that little smirking murderer getting off and becoming a right wing hero is distasteful, to say the least.",
"So women who wear skimpy clothes thier consent argument evaporated the second they left the house dressed that way. \n\nRegardless of the courts she is a slut, who went there to be sexually harassed in clothes she shouldn't be wearing. Nothing changes that fact. We all know. \n/s\n\nBetter to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt",
"And? What does that have to do with his intent? He went there to use his gun, otherwise he wouldn’t have brought it with him or even gone.",
"You said \"At worst Kyle will get manslaughter\" which definitely should be prosecuted if he's guilty of that.",
"Yes. You phrased it better than I did.",
"Well first of all, get your facts straight. He didn't go to Kenosha with a rifle. second of all:\n\n>other than with the hopes of using it?\n\nits called self defense. hoping to use it is conjecture and thats on you.",
"The other user laid out some charges that he may be found guilty of. All of which definitely should be pursued.",
"You should turn down your internet",
"So were the violent rioters. I don’t… yeah I don’t see any of them being charged here… it’s almost like… this is a political witch hunt by leftists.",
"This entire situation sucks. We’re all huddled around examining a turd on the ground",
"The prosecutor having his hand like that is likely not a reaction to anything being said. He's second chair, so he's busy taking notes and thinking. This title is idiotic and clearly pushing an agenda.",
"Why do I feel that everyone involved in this case is an asshole.",
"> The idea that rittenhouse had less right to be there than anyone else is nonsense\n\nWho said that?",
"Yea. \n\nPossession of a firearm and curfew violation \n\n\nA misdemeanor and a nothing charge. \n\nI would not be mad if he got hit with the misdemeanor charge. It should.be time served though.",
"This isn't news",
"It is an important point, but people seem to be making this into some sort of huge twist followed by creating some story about the prosecutor feeling defeated. I guess I could see that if there was a better shot of him facepalming. This just looks like he put his hand on his head while looking down at his notes. Also it doesn't help that I am at -4 for just asking if there is a better video. Pretty sure this is just being brigaded to push a particular narrative.",
"He's gonna walk free like the proud patriot he is and there's nothing you can do to stop it. He's no murderer, he's a hero!",
"You don’t know his intent. But carrying a firearm does not mean you intend to use it. He has a right to carry a firearm as a citizen. So I don’t know where you get he shouldn’t have had one. Nor is there any law prohibiting him protecting property. These arguments are baseless and dumb.",
"He also said \"manslaughter\" which is pretty serious.",
"oof, these gymnastics could win you the gold.",
"Yeah do you know what “manslaughter” is?",
"but then id have to close all these honey pots...\n\noh bother...",
"Kyle shot pedophiles and criminals that chased him down and tried to remove his loaded firearms, indeed.",
"At age 17 he actually didn’t have the right to keep arms which is why he had a friend purchase it.",
"Hmmm what happened to the hordes of Reddit dipshits that wre SO SURE that Kyle was a murderer? They were piling on anyone who pointed out the facts.",
"“I realize he deserves a fair trial, but he’s guilty no matter what the evidence says or jury decides.”\n\nIf the jury decides he’s innocent, as it certainly looks like they will, he by definition isn’t a murderer.",
"Neither of which matters in this case",
"That’s fair, a 17 year old unlawfully possessed said firearm because it was given to him by a 19 year old. My bad.",
"Rittenhouse didn't shoot anyone who wasn't attacking him... Change my mind.",
"Armed with an expired conceal carry license which is a worse offense.\n\nWith Kenosha being the nearest major city to Antioch (which sits on the border), Kyle likely had more reason to be there than Gaige did. This whole \"HE CROSSED STATE BORDERS!!!!!\" like he came from Tennessee or something is overblown. Gaige works/live in Milwaukee which is twice as far away.",
"The poster didn’t say “right” the poster said “business.” I guess he has a right. I don’t know what the law says about armed minors crossing state lines. But most rational people would agree that an armed minor going to a volatile area looking for trouble is not a good idea.",
"Half the comments. They are bringing it up to paint him as the aggressor because he was on the streets and armed, implying that the people who assaulted him were justified in being there, while he wasn’t.",
"Depending on the state laws for self defense, it may be required first to attempt to leave the situation before firing, or shooting is only as a last resort. I don't know this states specific law on the matter, but that's what they'll have to satisfy is how legally it applies to the rules/spirit of the law as self defense.\n\nIf he was hypothetically loitering in an active area, obviously not vacating for self defense, that argument for SD may become void.",
"I'm not victim blaming, and that's a pathetic attempt to try to compare that murderer with actual victims.\n\nWe all know he went there to play mr big man with a gun, fucked around and learned what's good real fast. Now he's facing murder charges. I hope he rots in jail.",
"True. It is a question. But to what end? To just paint Kyle as a bad person? Everything before this trial has been \"Kyle is a murderer who did not kill in self-defense\" but now that the *facts* are coming out, it's \"...well he's still a bad person!\" \n\nAfter months and months of arguing about *facts*, being called a racist, or endorsing violence, or getting banned for supporting Kyle, suddenly the conversation has changed. And it's become political. It seems if you're a liberal, you **have** to hate Kyle. Not only that, but the political party of \"facts and logic\" is being shown how they were wrong the entire time because they ignored the facts and logic. So they immediately change their tone. \n\nI'm a liberal, but I have to recognize the hypocrisy of my own party. Getting to shove this under the rug isn't going to work.",
"If you don't like their comment you should lobby the mods to change the rules. Until then, we can't make up posting rules and can only apply what is on the books.",
"* Gestures broadly at the past several years *",
"It's interesting that so many people say Rittenhouse should have stayed home, maybe the rioters should have stayed home",
"Sure he was, he went there to insert himself into the situation at large. He's a murder. Fuck that kid.\n\nIf the courts don't take care of him somebody else will 100%",
"Yes I do. But this is Wisconsin, they don't have manslaughter on the books. They have second degree intentional homicide.",
"> He had as much right as the violent rioters\n\nisn't the entire point that \"muh rioters\" were dangerous thugs? Even as a \"\"\"leftist\"\"\" I'm fairly sympathetic to Lil Ritty for the situation he found himself in... but what the fuck did he expect popping into a \"riot zone\" cosplaying as a soldier (figuratively not literally don't make that a whole thing)?\n\nAt any rate, I blame the adults who strapped him and brought him along. Even if he was \"just trying to help\", even if \"HE HAD A *RIGHT!*\", c'mon. don't grab local teens and fucking LARP National Guard in a \"dangerous warzone\".",
"Rittenhouse didn't shoot anyone who wasn't attacking him.",
"Guess you're one of those that won't need the police if someone's trying to kill you or your house is being burgled. After all, they'll only 'try and harm you'.",
"Rittenhouse didn't shoot anyone who wasn't attacking him.",
"Don't mind me, just standing in the middle of a leftist protest in body armor with an assault rifle, having a normal one. Don't mean nothin' by it.",
"Should Kyle have stayed the fuck home? He's free to do as he chooses.\nDid he have any business walking the streets armed with a rifle? According to American law, yes. In the middle of a dangerous riot? Absolutely. \nWere his actions self-defense according to state law? Yes.",
"All these people making assumptions. Whats the saying again?",
"~250 people were arrested during the riots in Kenosha, around half of which were from Kenosha County.\n\nMost were in relation to curfew violations, looting, and weapons.\n\nThis isn’t a political witch-hunt by leftists, it’s a high profile case involving the only fatalities and shootings that occurred. I think he’ll be found not guilty in regards to murder using the argument of self-defense. He still broke the law in a similar fashion to the hundreds who were arrested on curfew and weapons charges. He just happened to kill people too.\n\nYour bias is clouding your ability to view this rationally. He objectively broke the law. Just because “violent rioters” did too doesn’t mean he gets a free pass because you like him.",
"I have no problem with their poor grammar and almost unreadable comment. I was answering it.",
"Get better idols",
"No, at his age he had no business walking around the streets with that rifle. He should not have had open access to it. So the argument dies there with me.",
"Why is this case and vaccines being presented as right left issues? They aren't, they're issues where the facts easily override the feels.",
"Yeah, he's definitely not a hero lmfao.",
"Facts bad\n\nEmotions good",
"lol usa citizens are fucken dumb",
"> rosskreutz also said he wasn't chasing Kyle, just running in the same direction.\n\nGrosskreutz admitted with a \"correct\" towards the end of cross examination that the defence lawyer's characterization of his pursuit of Rittenhouse as \"chasing\" him was accurate.",
"The witness had an expired concealed carry so his was also illegal, so same right indeed lol",
"I mean, you can.",
"So minors have equal rights to guns? Tell me more about your thoughts on why age limits are unfair.",
"How would an expired conceal carry license be worse than having no license at all on account of being ineligible to have one?\n\nThat doesn’t make sense.\n\nAs an Illinois resident, he would need to be 21 for CCL. WI allows open carry without a license if 18. He was 17.",
"Not if I can avoid it. I’ve had enough negative interactions with the police to know they do not have your best interests in mind. And I’m a white guy with no record and like two speeding tickets.",
">here he would probably feel his life was in danger. But that doesn’t definitely mean that the protest was itself violent or dangerous.\n\nSo then how would he \"probably\" feel that way? Have just an ounce of logic here. Just because you don't like this guy doesn't mean he's guilty of the crimes he's charged with.",
"> They are bringing it up to paint him as the aggressor because he was on the streets and armed\n\nNobody should have been armed.\n\n> implying that the people who assaulted him were justified in being there, while he wasn’t. \n\nHe shot two people before being confronted with a gun, so that makes zero sense. Kyle was always the escalating force in every confrontation.",
"I still haven't come across details of the first person he shot which caused him to be chased and to defend himself.",
"Except the rioters aren't on trial here, Kyle is, so that's who we're talking about it.",
"Your right to safety doesnt evaporate because you walked into a bad neighborhood. Kyle's provable purpose was to provide community aid. \n\nYour second point seems oddly threatening, you may want to control your emotions.",
"Why do I feel that we went through months and months of saying Kyle is a vicious white supremacist murderer and if you support him you support Trump and are a Nazi is now \"well everyone involved is an asshole?\"",
"How about we just enforce laws against rioting and property destruction? If the authorities protected individuals' property then idiot children wouldn't think they have to step in with a rifle.",
"Rittenhouse wasn't an active shooter. He wasn't shooting into a crowd or and random people. He was in his view shooting people who where attacking him. So good guy with a gun doesn't really work when to argue shooting Rittenhouse would be proper. \nRittenhouse seems to have been retreating before the event with Grosskreutz making Grosskreutz the aggressor. If Rittenhouse was shooting into the crowd or threatening people you could probably argue it differently. All IMO clearly.",
"your bias is obviously overpowering you sight for the facts.",
"the first person he shot wasn't attacking him and neither was the person in the clip this thread is about.",
"clearly he needed it lots of psychos in that riot.",
"He killed in self defense. Would you cheer if he let rioters stomp him if he was dead?",
"And I was mocking your assertion that one should not complain about something unless it is against the law.",
"You can conceal a handgun. You can't really conceal a long gun. Everyone knows you have a long gun. Dude with the handgun was concealing it in his waistband under his backpack or something like that. The laws are more stringent against any guns you can hide.",
"> Nobody should have been armed.\n\nThat’s your opinion, bro\n\n> He shot two people before being confronted with a gun, so that makes zero sense. Kyle was always the escalating force in every confrontation.\n\nDeceptive. He was assaulted by a mob before that, and you know it.",
"the first person he shot wasn't attacking him and neither was the person in the clip this thread is about.\n\nEdit: No amount of downvotes will make you right lol. And no amount of posting tweets from neo-nazis will either, I don't really get why I'm receiving those.",
"He shot two people, yes. The first according to witnesses was being extremely aggressive and threatened to kill Kyle.\n\nThe second was on video beating Kyle with a skateboard.\n\nStill justified self-defense",
"What has he done to be deserving of the moniker “proud patriot”?",
"Both should have stayed home. But only one killed people.",
"The Wisconsin state statute requires more than that to claim a perfect self defense and shield a person from charges.\n\nHe satisfies none of the requirements, his claim in imperfect and should not shield him from charges.",
">He has a right to carry a firearm as a citizen.\n\nat 17?\n\nedit: anyone who downvoted care to explain why?",
"None of that actually responded to anything I said, because you cannot respond.",
"Because a kid has less chance to defend himself unarmed than an adult.\n\nLet’s frame it another way. A bunch of adults started beating a minor. Tell me more about your thoughts about how they were innocent victims.",
"So let me get this straight - you think police presence would not be a net positive for you in a situation in which someone is trying to kill you? That all police officers are a hive mind conspiring to harm citizens?",
"Actually he constitutionally did have a right to keep and bear arms. \n\nhttps://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246\n\nBoom! Didn’t know about that did you? \n\nLulz.",
"In Wisconsin you need a \"perfect self defense\" claim to be shielded from charges, Rittenhouse doesn't meet the requirements, his claim is what's known as \"imperfect\" and should not shield him from charges.",
"We’re not on the jury, so we’re allowed to make our own judgements. OJ Simpson is a murderer. See?",
"technically 3 turds.",
">Kyle was always the escalating force in every confrontation.\n\nEscalating by… running away?\n\nAnd then, escalating by… putting his head in front of a skateboard, I guess?",
"Because he is a murdering white Supremacist. \n\nhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kyle-rittenhouse-out-bail-flashed-white-power-signs-bar-prosecutors-n1254250",
"That's a long way to write, \"I agree.\"",
"Defending his local area (15 minute drive) from violent rioters. Seems like he fits that description to me!",
"And also an expired EMT cert. \n\nThat violent rioter just can’t seem to keep anything up to do.",
"anti riot person bad \npro riot people good.",
"Lets go Kyle!",
"Lol, i responded point by point. You don’t like it, fine. But don’t pretend that I ignored what you said.",
">True. It is a question. But to what end? To just paint Kyle as a bad person? Everything before this trial has been \"Kyle is a murderer who did not kill in self-defense\" but now that the *facts* are coming out, it's \"...well he's still a bad person!\" \n>\n\nIn a purely critical sense, I would want ALL THE FACTS to determine the case. The media (all of it, not just \"the lib'rul mainstream news\") is going to jump on sensationalism. I don't expect anything different. I expect the court to get to the facts. \n\nIn an emotional sense, I can't help but think of Kyle as either a fuckin' idiot or a perpetrator of additional violence. If you want to stop a riot that's 20 miles away, DON'T GO TO THE FUCKING RIOT. One more person with a gun ain't gonna do shit except cause problems. He left his house armed to kill and someone died. That is a tragedy.",
"Seems like important info?",
"Possession of an illegally acquired firearm is a crime, and committing a crime in Wisconsin means you can't have a perfect self defense claim, and can't be shielded from charges.",
"It does if you’re arguing he had no reason to be there. As does his right to keep and bear arms if you are going to throw weapons charges at him.",
"According to US Law he was fully within his rights? Maybe I'm misinformed.",
"> Escalating by… \n\nKilling two people and shooting a third. Not one other person shot anybody, so Kyle clearly escalated every confrontation. There's no debate there unless you want to argue shooting people isn't an escalation of force.",
"Whether he lawfully possessed the weapon or not is a separate issue. It doesn’t invalidate the self defense argument against the murder charge.\n\nAnd Gaige wasn’t legally allowed to have a gun either fwiw, his license was expired.",
"That's not an argument! He IS a hero! Bless Kyle, thank the lord he was protected from those vile pedophiles and criminals that attacked him.",
"Yeah and Kyle will see his day in court for that. But when it comes to Murder accusations, Kyle had every right to use the rifle to protect himself effectively. \n\nIts also better that Kyle kept that rifle than to surrender it to the documented mentally unstable Rosenbaum.",
"1. It's a misdemeanor. \n\n2. Having a misdemeanor does not remove your right to self defense. \n\n3. He was retreating prior to him shooting each time. \n\n\nTry again",
"The prosecutor was on his phone. I don't think he had the facepalm was in reaction to what Grosskreutz said.",
"I would say that what happened is exactly why we have laws regarding the age he can use such a weapon. At his age there is a greater chance of sone lacking of thought into the consequences for such actions. I doubt the law exists just to spite underage people. Even though every kill he made was in self defense, none of it would have happened had he not violated a law.",
"What does this have to do with USA citizens?",
"Cause it can be both?\n\nAs in, both sides are assholes AND supporting Kyle is obviously pretty vile.",
"Oh FFS. HE. DID. NOT. CROSS. STATE. LINES. WITH. A. FIREARM. \n\nStop. Just stop. For FS.",
"Wisconsin is not a “duty to retreat” state. Regardless, he was retreating in both cases.",
"Probably because Kyle is a vicious white supremacist murderer. Just cause he’s likely to get off on the charges doesn’t change that.\n\nKill a couple people, post bond and then go hang out with racists and party over killing the people? Fuck him.",
"> Lol, i responded point by point\n\nWhat was your response to this:\n\n> Kyle was always the escalating force in every confrontation.",
"My issue is how the narrative has changed here.\n\nAll of a sudden it has come down to the standoff and whether he fired on defense or not. Even the judge said that’s what he is to decide.\n\nContext matters, otherwise we won’t have such thing as a premeditated murder. Kyle put himself in this situation by going there and holding a gun illegally. The very act of doing that is what caused the death. It wasn’t an accident, it wasn’t a butterfly effect. It was a natural order of progression - one of the potential and plausible outcomes - because he chose to be there with his rifle. From a larger scheme of things, it wasn’t a defensive move- rather it was an utterly an offensive move and he is responsible for the death of the victims.",
"He was defending his local area and making a difference in the face of violent extremists. Seems like it fits the description to me!",
"Well said sir",
"Out of curiosity how many people did Rosenbaum kill that night?",
"Then you can charge him with illegally carrying the rifle and breaking curfew. Those are separate issues.\n\nThat doesn’t invalidate the defenses self-defense argument against the murder charge.",
"It’s still the law. Even if law and order is under attack by the left and they refuse to enforce it.",
"You don’t get to claim self-defense if you are there for a confrontation.",
"You missed a small [detail](https://i.imgur.com/5EOZhBe.png). Also somewhat amusing that both examples under your \"essential definition\" section include being convicted in court.",
"He shot and killed 2 unarmed people before this dipshit pulled a gun on him. This idiot aiming a gun at him after he killed 2 people does not give him blanket self defense protection for his actions prior to it.",
"Thank god you're not a lawyer or jugde. Talk about missing the point of the law with about a mile.",
"Also the guy in the video only pulls out his gun when Rittenhouse shoots someone else in front of him",
"I mean there’s already laws in place for that, obviously large riots make it tough for the police to protect everyone’s property so I see where the need to protect your own makes sense. So I guess if you stayed on your property to defend it I don’t see much of an issue necessarily. Patrolling the streets with a rifle to stop perceived crime is where things get messier imo",
"Wasn't the first guy he shot literally shouting \" SHOOT ME N----\" and was a 5 count pedophile?",
"Ah, thanks! I turned it off after the seeming freeze on the defendant. Appreciate it!",
"There is video and witness testimony that Joseph Rosenbaum yelled to Rittenhouse that he was going to kill him. Rosenbaum then chased down and grabbed for the rifle while Rittenhouse was trying to get away from him. At the same time someone else fired multiple shots at Rittenhouse... Gaige Grosskreutz admitted that he didn't know who Rittenhouse was or what was happening, but pulled his gun while chasing him... Grosskreutz admitted that he advanced on Rittenhouse and pointed his gun at him. Those are attacks.",
"Under which timeframe did you apply? Before he was shot in the bicep or after? Also exactly when did you apply the standard that Rittenhouses actions weren't aggressive. It had to be after shooting the other two, so exactly when is the reset button? How long does fearing for your life permit you to do self-defense?",
"A rose by any other name…",
"Potentially one",
"The guy who said fuck you and grabbed for his gun? From 20 feet??\n\nDon't let your feelings cloud your judgment.",
"Every time I see shit like this it reminds me that the court of public opinion is filled with morons.\n\nWe have been lied to and pushed another false narrative by the media in the United States and Social Media also tunes out any information they don't feel aligns with that narrative.\n\nIf these prosecutors were allowed to do their job without the cameras and news people, they may not have ever brought charges, or at least *these* charges, to begin with. But instead we have a DA that is probably worried about press and their career, more than the law, so they push for the highest charge to make the biggest spectacle possible.\n\nIt's tiring and it affects peoples lives. We should really stop listening to the media, they are pushing the agenda they are paid to push.",
"Idk thats what is weird about this.\n\nAnd they also should’ve probably focused on the fact that he only pulled out his gun after Rittenhouse had shot someone in front of him.\n\nLike you would think to focus on that if you’re going the self defense route\n\nEdit: He only *pointed* his gun at Rittenhouse after he had shot someone in front of him, but had *pulled* his gun out earlier after hearing that Kyle had shot the first victim (Rittenhouse) and was fleeing the scene gun in hand.\n\nEdit 2: [Video for reference ](https://youtube.com/watch?v=VpTW2AJE9MQ&t=19m45s)",
"Watch the video because the first guy to get shot was like five feet at most from Kyle and was moving towards him. It's not like Kyle sauntered up to this guy on the ground and executed him. He fired four shots in less than a second, the guy he shot started falling immediately, causing the last two shot to enter his back.",
"Do you happen to know what the penalty would be for an expired CCL in this case? \n\nIn IL, the first offense is a Class A Misdemeanor. Illegally carrying a rifle at 17 in WI is also a Class A Misdemeanor.\n\nIf nothing else, they’re equal charges. One isn’t inherently way worse than the other in the eyes of the law, not to mention to many gun advocates, CCL shouldn’t exist in the first place.",
"I don't think US Law allows a minor to carry a weapon bought for them illegally by a friend in public. Feel like he doesn't have much of a defense against the charges of carrying a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, but obviously that is a relatively minor charge compared to the murder charges where he can plead self defense",
"Soldier? Was he wearing military gear? Uniforms? Whut? \n\nWhen law and order has broken down and the state is refusing to enforce law and order the citizenry has NO CHOICE but to defend property on their own. \n\nO.o",
"You are some kind of special I tell you what!",
"Frame it whatever dumbass way you want, that kid shouldn't have been there, and shouldn't have been armed with a fucking gun, because children aren't fully developed and don't understand the decisions they make. He was a trigger happy little racist that was looking to kill people because he's been radicalized by white supremacists (like his fat ugly mother). That doesn't give him the right to put himself in harm's way so he can claim self defense for killing people.\n\nY'all defending KKKyle are fucking trash people.",
"Noe of this would have happened if they didn't attack Rittenhouse.",
"Kyle was providing community aid that night and most likely would have kept on doing that had Rosenbaum not instigated the initial event.",
"It’s also important to note that “jump kick man” only kicked Kyle because he was pointing his gun at someone else.\n\nHe only hit Kyle to get him to stop pointing his gun",
"> I realize he deserves a fair trial, but the thought of that little smirking murderer getting off and becoming a right wing hero is distasteful, to say the least\n\nHe wouldn't be a hero if he wasn't made to be the villain by the people on the left. Perhaps you should consider that next time.",
"How about a person beat him before he touched them? How is that not an “escalating force”? How is Kyle ALWAYS the escalating force when he was the first one assaulted?\n\nYour point was addressed. You’re just in denial.",
"The guy only drew his gun after Rittenhouse shot someone in front of him",
"nah murder has to be unlawful",
"You know what must be soul destroying? Being called a hero for what must be the worst moment of your life.\n\nChrist, even if Rittenhouse wasn't bonkers before, he is now.",
"That guy had his head in his hand the whole trial. This is misleading",
"For the first part: yes absolutely. Particularly if I am attempting to defend myself, or my dogs are trying to. \nIf I call the police I assume my dogs are dead at a minimum, and I will need to abandon all methods of defending myself in order to not be killed by the police as well. \n\nThis is not because they are a hive mind intent on harming citizens... but honestly that isn't a WILD assertion. \n\nThey are not trained to de-escalate, on how to handle property or animals, or psychologically to defuse authority complexes. \nThey ARE trained to be aggressive, and to fear for their lives. And boy the training works. Man just look up the Killology guy, Dave Grossman. He's actively heavily employed and requested by PD's. \n\nIt's literally a gamble it I call police in a situation I don't have a specific amount of control over.",
"When he tripped, he pointed his gun at someone who was unarmed.\n\nAll the attacks after that stemmed from the fact that they were trying to get Kyle to stop pointing his gun/shooting at people",
"This is just opening Pandora's Box for other assholes to start showing up to events with guns & acting like little bitchs when things don't go their way.",
"No, it's not a separate issue. It's literally the reason that someone is dead. Shouldn't have been there, shouldn't have been armed. Children should not have guns. Period.",
"Missing the point. u/open_systems claimed that his feeling his life was in danger *proves* that the protest was a dangerous place. I’m pointing out that his perception of the danger can have nothing to do with any actual danger present. People get anxious about things that aren’t threatening all the time.",
"Okay, let's call it manslaughter if you like. It's still a serious crime.",
"After he killed rosenbaum and after he shot Hubert. Did you see the high rez drone footage from today? Doesnt look like self defense...",
"He's an American defending his home from violent extremists. Standing up for what he believes in. It's not a LARP, you just lack the stomach to do what he did. God bless Kyle!",
"Considering the riots were against the police I don’t think the mob would be very inclined to listen to them",
"Trying to brain someone who has been knocked to the ground with a skateboard isn't \"Unarmed\".\n\nChasing someone and trying to take their rifle.... If you succeed in taking the rifle means you aren't unarmed.",
"Just blew right on on past me *literally* explaining the metaphor...",
"Rittenhouse packed up his gun and traveled to the protest in hopes of putting himself into a firefight. It's like hiking into bear country in early spring while carrying a .44 on your hip and following a mom and cubs around. If you end up shooting the bear in self-defense, you might be excused - but we'd know that you courted the danger you responded to with force.\n\nLegally? Beats me. Morally? Kid's an asshole.",
"how do you propose enforcing that",
"Well he can still be that, and his actions since have confirmed that. \n\nOr can you not handle a situation where both parties are at fault?\n\nEspecially seeing as Kyle still shot two unarmed people during this.",
"> defending his home\n\nWas not even from the state lmfao.",
"Lol, if only Grosskreutz had said this on the stand, we could have had the case thrown out right away. Save us all some time.\n\nThe funny thing is you probably have no idea why.",
"If you read above I also said he is probably going to get manslaughter and a misdemeanor weapons charge. So I don’t know how you can say my judgement is clouded.",
"Rittenhouse was patrolling a car dealership at the request of the owners (the dealership had suffered $1.5m in damage the previous night). At some point, Rittenhouse left the dealership to provide medical aid to injured people. Police prevented him from returning to the dealership after the medical aid. He was trying to find a way to get out of the situation when he was attacked.",
"right: pro gun, pro police, anti-BLM\n\nLeft: anti-gun, anti police, pro BLM\n\nThis case: combines all three of those issues",
"\n> I’m pointing out that his perception of the danger can have nothing to do with any actual danger present.\n\nTrue but we have very specific examples backed by witness testimony to show he clearly was in immediate danger.",
"Is chasing someone down and pointing a gun at them not an escalation then? They both could have avoided the situation if they wanted to.",
"He used the okay sign, 👌.\n\nIt is literally in your emoji keyboard.\n\nOnly insane conspiracy theorists think it has anything to do with \"white supremacy\".",
"Exactly, what happened was on video it would ruin his credibility if he said otherwise. And pulling out a gun in that situation and pointing it could be seen as reasonable. But it also helps with Rittenhouse's self-defense argument than if he shot him and the gun wasn't pointed at him. The situation was a chaotic mess.",
"I’ll humor the ludicrous statement you’ve extrapolated from my words, and ask if you would stand there and talk to a grizzly bear if you had another choice? You don’t know if he’s hungry, or just feels like maiming you, or thinks you’re threatening him.",
"Yes and there was high rez drone footage released today that shows kyle killing rosenbaum",
"Before. Rittenhouse was on the ground after retreating and being chased. He is not the aggressor. The first incident was self defense and he was not the aggressor after that fact. If the first shots where not self defense then the rest can no be either. \n\nSo if Rittenhouse shot someone not in self defense he can not be on the defense later. If Rittenhouse has shot the first person in self defense. He can defend himself from retaliatory actions from that. He can not defend himself. Start shooting other people as an aggressor and then shoot someone else in defense. \n\nIf the argument is after he was shot in the bicep then self defense does not exit ever.\n\nRittenhouse was \"aggressive \" in defense you could say but was not the aggressor.",
"Oh noooo 15 minute drive (not his home) LOL! I didn't know Americans only considered their local State their homeland!",
"None of the clowns that got shot had business being there either",
"So he is the legal age to join a militia. Ok, which one is he member of?",
"The idea that this guy had any less reason to defend himself is also nonsense. Kinda the problem with guns for self-defense. Everyone is always in a state of mutual danger, the mere presence of guns in bad company is reason to believe your life is in danger and therefore to use your gun. As far as I can see, shooting anyone for any reason is pretty much legal self defense as long as you believe it is, no stops. Now that's not how it plays out, because it's a law meant for a certain kind of person, with discrimination built into it, but that's really how it is.",
"> defined as the unlawful killing of a human\n\nUnlawful being the fulcrum here",
"99 percent of protests are peaceful and this dude showed up in a group of motherfuckers armed with an AR15. He was absolutely looking for confrontation. The businesses he was claiming to be acting as security for have testified that they never asked him to do that.",
"Possession of an illegal firearm is not a misdemeanor.\n\nHe can obviously claim self defense, but he must satisfy the Wisconsin state statute to claim perfect self defense and be shielded from charges.\n\nHe was committing a crime, he contributed to the tension he responded to with force, he did not use proportional force, the property he claims he was protecting was not his or his employers, and he did not *exhaust* all avenues of escape.\n\nHis claim is imperfect according to the Wisconsin state statute.",
"Anyone who says Rittenhouse should have stayed home is a political hack. Also Grosskreutz should be in jail along with the people who incited rioters to attack him.",
"The child rapist who said if he found him alone later that night he’d kill him? The guy who set 2 fires, one of which Kyle put out? Who then chased kyle and tried to take his rifle from him before getting shot? That guy?",
"So this guy can't defend himself with a gun, but Rittenhouse can?",
"*>* y-you think just because I'm factually incorrect that makes me wrong?!\n\nChadYes.jpg",
"The first person he shot was recorded by multiple sources being overly aggressive prior to the incident. Towards Kyle and others in the area, he threatened, on video, to kill Kyle multiple times.\n\nHe chased Kyle almost two blocks in an attempt to assault Kyle. He can be seen throwing a plastic bag containing something heavy, details to it's contents aren't clear.\n\nKyle was in full a retreat, non-threatening posture.\n\nA gunshot can be heard on video, but the source isn't clear, and Kyle turned around to see his pursuer still advancing and shot him in the head, killing him before he could close the distance and assault Kyle.",
"It's a misdemeanor in wisconsin try again",
"The dude was shot in the back….",
"Well none of it was murder so he has nothing to worry about! Those pedophiles fucked around and found out fast that 5.56×45mm NATO hurts! Did you see that dudes bicep lol.",
"My money's on stress. Imagine being one of the lawyers on this case. Win or lose your name is now tied up in this. From his point of view if he wins he's \"the guy who got a patriot arrested\". He loses he's \"the guy who let a murderer go free\". Either way crazies are going to hound him for years.",
"Is this satire?",
"Same deal as Batman. Batman goes out looking for trouble. If he drops a guy pointing a gun at him, is it self-defense? Is it self-defense if you go out looking for trouble?",
"What is your evidence that Kyle, a mixed race man himself, is in any way racist?",
"If that all holds true and is proven in court I don’t see any problems there. I admittedly don’t know every detail of the case but have seen contradicting statements on that, mainly that the owners claiming they didn’t ask him to, but that could be a lie to protect themselves. Like I said, total shit show to sort out but hopefully the justice system gets it right\n\nEdit: also we have to take insurance in to account when thinking of damages caused by rioting. It didn’t cost the dealership 1.5 mil, I’m sure it cost them some amount and none of it is OK but we have to rely on police, insurance etc in order to operate as a civilized society.",
"Wasn't gross only pointing his gun and going toward rottenhouse because people were telling that he just shot someone ?",
"> He was there to cause a riot.\n\nLol, do you work for the prosecution? Because you also have a tendency to put your foot in your mouth.",
"In case anyone is wondering what happened, this is from Wikipedia:\n\nOn August 23, 2020, Jacob Blake, an African-American man, was shot four times in the back by a Kenosha police officer after he was tasered. Blake was shot after he opened the door to an SUV, and was leaning into the vehicle. He is paralyzed from the waist down.\n\nIn response to the George Floyd protests, which preceded the Kenosha protests, former Kenosha alderman Kevin Mathewson announced the formation of a militia group he called the Kenosha Guard. On August 25, he put out a call on Facebook for \"patriots willing to take up arms and defend\" Kenosha, which received a heavy online response. Police officers were seen in a video giving them water and were heard saying, \"We appreciate you guys, we really do.\"\n\nAt the time of the Kenosha unrest, Kyle Rittenhouse, then 17 years old, had participated in local police cadet programs, and he had expressed support on social media for the Blue Lives Matter movement and law enforcement. According to his attorneys, after Rittenhouse had heard about a local business owner who wanted help defending his car dealership, he and his friend Dominick David Black \"armed themselves with rifles\" and went to that business.\n\nEvents leading up to the shooting\r \nThe five confrontations and subsequent shooting took place shortly before midnight on August 25, 2020, along Sheridan Road, Kenosha, where protesters went after clashes with law enforcement and being expelled from Civic Center Park.\r \n\r \nProtesters were recorded on video pushing a burning dumpster through a crowd, towards a gas station. A guard, dressed in similar clothing to Rittenhouse – a green shirt, cap, and bag – put out the dumpster fire, which enraged Rosenbaum, who shouted at the guard. More arson took place and was recorded on video. Rittenhouse was then seen running with a fire extinguisher. According to Rittenhouse's defense attorneys, what was not recorded on video was that he used it to put out one of the fires, which provoked a confrontation by Rosenbaum, who mistook Rittenhouse for the guard who had put out the dumpster fire earlier.\\[41\\]\\[42\\]\r \n\r \nFirst major confrontation\r \nThe beginning of the first confrontation between Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum was witnessed by McGinniss to whom it seemed that Rosenbaum and other protesters were moving toward Rittenhouse, who was trying to evade them; Rosenbaum then tried to \"engage\" Rittenhouse, but Rittenhouse managed to avoid this by sidestepping and running away.\\[9\\]\\[43\\] FBI infrared footage taken from an overhead airplane captured the shooting of Rosenbaum and the events immediately preceding it.\\[44\\]\\[45\\]\r \n\r \nThe remainder of Rosenbaum's confrontation, and the following incidents with Huber and Grosskreutz, were recorded in cellphone footage from multiple angles, including the moments of the shooting.\\[46\\] Video footage showed Rittenhouse being pursued across a parking lot by Rosenbaum,\\[35\\] who threw something in Rittenhouse's direction,\\[47\\]\\[43\\] identified as a plastic bag.\\[9\\] As Rittenhouse was running from Rosenbaum, a shot could be heard from Joshua Ziminski, who fired a self-described \"warning shot\" into the air,\\[48\\] causing Rittenhouse to stop running and turn towards the sound of Ziminski's shot.\\[35\\] McGinniss stated that the sound of the shot was the moment Rittenhouse \"went from running away to aiming his weapon.\"\\[48\\]\r \n\r \nThen, according to Kenosha County prosecutors, Rosenbaum engaged Rittenhouse and tried to take his rifle from him.\\[49\\]\\[50\\]\\[8\\] Rittenhouse then fired four shots, hitting Rosenbaum in the groin, back, and left hand. The bullets fractured Rosenbaum's pelvis, perforated his right lung and liver, and caused additional minor wounds to his left thigh and forehead.\\[51\\] Rittenhouse remained near Rosenbaum as McGinniss began administering first aid to Rosenbaum.\\[8\\] Rittenhouse then began to run up the street while onlookers shouted \"Get him! Get that dude!\" \"Hey, he shot him!\" and, \"Beat him up!\"\\[8\\] According to detectives, Rittenhouse was heard saying \"I just killed somebody\" on his cell phone while he was running.\\[8\\] Rosenbaum died shortly afterwards.\\[51\\]\r \n\r \nSecond major confrontation\r \nVideo from another angle then showed Rittenhouse being chased down the street by several protesters, one of whom allegedly struck him from behind in the head, knocking off his cap,\\[52\\] shortly after which Rittenhouse tripped and fell to the ground.\\[53\\] According to the criminal complaint, at that point, protesters were heard on two different videos yelling \"Beat him up!,\" \"Get him! Get that dude!,\" and \"Get his ass!\"\\[9\\] One of the men who had been chasing him allegedly jumped and kicked Rittenhouse while he was still on the ground – Rittenhouse fired twice but missed the man.\\[10\\]\r \n\r \nNext, according to court records and video footage, another protester, Anthony Huber, \"made contact\" with Rittenhouse's left shoulder with a skateboard as the pair struggled for control of the gun.\\[12\\]\\[9\\]\\[54\\] As Huber was pulling on the rifle, Rittenhouse fired once, hitting Huber in the chest, perforating his heart and right lung, causing his rapid death.\\[9\\]\\[55\\]\r \n\r \nThird major confrontation and Rittenhouse's departure\r \nGaige Grosskreutz approached Rittenhouse while he was still on the ground but stopped and put his hands up when Huber was shot. A complaint filed by the Kenosha County Clerk of Courts stated that Grosskreutz appeared to be holding a handgun,\\[56\\] which Grosskreutz later confirmed.\\[57\\] When Grosskreutz moved again towards Rittenhouse, Rittenhouse shot Grosskreutz in the arm, severing most of his right biceps.\\[12\\]\\[58\\]\\[59\\] At least 16 gunshots from other sources were heard on video during the time that Rittenhouse was on the ground.\\[35\\]\r \n\r \nRittenhouse subsequently got back to his feet and walked towards police with his hands up and the rifle strapped across his chest.\\[60\\] The police did not appear to acknowledge Rittenhouse and allowed him to leave, though several witnesses and protesters were shouting for him to be arrested.\\[46\\]\\[61\\] When asked at a press conference why Rittenhouse was not stopped, Kenosha Sheriff David Beth said, \"In situations that are high-stress, you have such incredible tunnel vision\" and implied officers may not have realized he had been involved in the shooting.\\[62\\] Likewise, Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis said that \"there was nothing to suggest this individual was involved in any criminal behavior\" due to the fact that someone walking towards the police with their hands up was \"no longer abnormal\" in the wake of the protests.\\[63\\]",
"This entire episode points out everything that is wrong with US gun laws... and US States, and US people... \n\n...and the US",
"You just made up total BS and you clearly haven't heard any witness testimony. All three people he shot were in the act of attacking him. The mob wasn't descending upon him to give him hugs",
"How do you potentially kill someone?",
"Lol, i love how reddit tries to cover up their legal ignorance with veiled accusations of racism.",
"Inconsequential and zero relevance. You seem emotionally invested in a 17 year old patriot defending his country from anarchists. Tell me, do you love America?",
"It’s all on video, you can see for yourself",
"He did murder two people. It's just whether he'll go to prison...\n\nSelf-defense doesn't mean you didn't murder someone o.O..,\n\nEDIT: Read up on difference between killing or murdering someone. He killed someone, but courts are determining whether it's murder. i.e. whether going to a dangerous place with a gun with the intention of defending an area and then killing someone is self-defense or not.",
"Kyle literally did nothing wrong.",
"Yeah but he still killed two people that did not point guns at him. We knew this from the video.",
"If they didn't want to be shot, don't chase and attack someone with an AR-15 LOL!",
"It's not a metaphor it's a simile bitch and yours was trash.",
"https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246\n\nIt’s codified law. He was 17 at the time.",
"When you assume it makes an ass out of you and ... uuhhh you can't get fooled again.",
"Was he there illegally?",
"I think this \"crossed state lines\" misconception comes from some misinformation that I myself had also fallen victim to. When info for the case was first coming out I swear i had heard that Kyle had obtained his weapon illegally and then crossed state lines with it. He didn't. He crossed state lines which any person is allowed to do and obtained a weapon illegally. \n\nThese scenarios are both really different according to the law but really don't change the self defense defense Kyle is using. Kyle isn't guilty of murder as charged, but I hate seeing people equate not-guilty to innocent. He's not innocent. There are some pretty clear steps taking to intentionally put himself in this situation, he may not be a murderer but killing someone is clearly something he was fine with doing.",
"hadn't he already killed a person at that time though...? wasn't his gun out because thought rittenhouse was killing people?",
"Ya a bunch of communist pedophiles and BLM paid activists need to stay the fuck home lol!",
"Another Ritty Rider just compared him to an *actual* soldier mere moments ago lol. SOMEONE thought it was good.",
"You also said he should be cleared of any charges, some of which are the same charges faced by “violent rioters”, and this is all the result of a partisan witch-hunt.\n\nYour judgment is clouded because you think he should be exempt from the law and others shouldn’t when they commit the same crime, all on the basis of their political alignment with yours.\n\nHim shooting and killing people, and whether or not he’s guilty or innocent by virtue of self-defense, is the story here…but he still broke the law before firing a single shot, and he should still be held accountable like anyone else would.\n\nHe’s not a hero or a villain. He’s a dumb kid who put himself in a bad situation, even if his initial intent was to be helpful.",
"Sigh. Should I even respond to this, people?",
"You are some kind of stupid my guy. He ran after Rittenhouse and was the aggressor. He wasn't defending himself.",
"It’s not murder. It simply means “someone was killed”",
"The first guy, we’ll go with child rapist, threatened his life and then bum rushed him trying to take his rifle. \n\nThe 2nd guy tried to bash his head in with a skateboard.\n\nThe third guy here pulled his hand gun on him before getting shot. \n\nIn all instances you can see Rittenhouse running away from these perps and only shooting when he is in immediate danger. \n\nDoes running away constitute an escalation of force? You’re a brainwashed lemming",
">Tell me, do you love America? \n\nLove the idea but hate the execution",
"Everyone there was breaking a curfew placed by the local police.",
"Ah, here's one",
"Who said anything about racism? Not that it doesn't apply to race in other circumstance, because it does. But it's definitely even worse than racism. Classist, political alignment. Leftists (or even liberals) with guns are fundamentally not viewed the same way as conservatives with guns and this is a perfect example.\nIf you believe Rittenhouse killing people with his gun is fine then:. \nWhat's wrong with him having a gun?\nWhat's wrong with him using a gun to try to stop an adversarial presence with an illegal gun?",
"\"Rittenhouse packed up his gun and traveled to the protest in hopes of putting himself into a firefight.\" Where did you read this statement from Kyle?",
"Based on videos from earlier in the evening, the first person shot, Joseph Rosenbaum, was extremely aggressive and confrontational. He had apparently just been released from a hospital following a suicide attempt. The NYT has a good, fairly unbiased video about what happened that evening. Rosenbaum appears around the 14 minute mark in the video: [https://youtu.be/VpTW2AJE9MQ?t=836](https://youtu.be/VpTW2AJE9MQ?t=836)\n\nEdit: I still don't have a clear understanding why he started chasing after Rittenhouse, but it really seems like he wanted to escalate things, or wasn't behaving rationally.",
"You clearly haven’t watched the video and just want to believe whatever will justify the narrative you hope is true. \n\nWatch the video and shut up. \nYou’re wrong. \nMake your assessment based on reality. \nDon’t select your facts to uphold a fake reality when the videos and background info are freely available",
"It's a broad term. Do you mean reckless homicide, homicide by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, or what?",
"Why is supporting Kyle vile?",
"As an attorney, you’re trained to recognize that everything you do in court—every little gesture—can communicate something to the jury. It doesn’t matter if that’s just something you naturally do (you might also naturally frown when someone is talking), the jury doesn’t know that so to them it seems like a facepalm.\n\nIt’s bad lawyering, basically.",
"Also he is checking his phone",
"Did you even READ the statue?\n\nNo. You didn’t. So I’ll give it to you pudding style. The “militia”, is ANY able bodied male age 17-45. That isn’t a member of the national guard.",
"Nah he'll be fine. Lots of support from his fans!",
"it sounded like you were calling Kyle guilty",
"Nope.",
"Hopefully the charge him perjury.",
"Downvoting because this is an ongoing criminal trial, and this doesn't \"prove\" anything. I believe these actions were recorded on video so the witness is merely stating the sequence of events which the jury will be able to fact check via video recording.\n\nThe jury must evaluate the defendant's belief that his actions were in defense of himself or others, this is one piece of evidence but I'm sure there is more evidence that will be presented before the trial concludes.\n\nShit like this is exactly why judges sequester juries and why jury members are not allowed to \"do their own research\" on a case. This stuff is complicated, deals with the nuances of evidence and criminal law, and anybody who thinks this 30 second clip blows the case wide open has clearly never seen a self-defense murder trial play out before.\n\nEdit: the prosecutors 100% knew what the video showed and what this witness would say, and called Grosskreutz to testify anyways knowing that. That is how murder trials work.",
"His very presence was as an aggressor.",
"“Unarmed” \n\nOne of which threatened he’d kill him if he found him alone that night, and bum rushed him in an attempt to take his gun and hmm maybe follow through with his threat? \n\nThe second guy tried to brain him with a skateboard. \n\nThis is all on video by the way, try informing yourself before spouting off media rhetoric",
"Fuck what the law thinks, that little shit went looking for trouble and found it.\n\nAnd downvotes don’t change my mind. Fuck Kyle.",
"That’s not what escalation means. A rifle may be the most deadly weapon used here, but using it isn’t an escalation of force, unless you really just want to be pedantic. Like, hey I saw Rittenhouse stepped up on a curb while he was running. That was an escalation too.\n\nA man telling you he’s going to kill you and chasing you is a threat of death or great bodily harm, against which you are afforded the right to use deadly force in self defense. This is both morally true and legally true in the state of Wisconsin.\n\nA man chasing you and swinging a blunt object at your head is also a threat of death or great bodily harm.\n\nA man running up to you and pointing a handgun at you is a threat of death or great bodily harm.\n\nThe running that was occurring immediately prior to these 3 actions are the exact opposite of an escalation.\n\nSo try again, when did the escalation occur?",
"I am a militia by your definition.",
"False. AGAIN, NO. HE. DID. NOT. CROSS. STATE. LINES. WITH. A. FIREARM. \n\nJesus H Christ. I’m done with you people claiming this. You are factually WRONG.",
"Better than cosplaying as people that give a shit about black lives",
"> But it's definitely even worse than racism. Classist, political alignment. Leftists (or even liberals) with guns are fundamentally not viewed the same way as conservatives with guns and this is a perfect example\n\nGotta give you credit. I have never heard someone attempt this argument before. Gonna just save it for later.",
"What if everyone chasing him is considered a threat in the middle of an active riot and physically assaults him? Fuck around and find out!",
"What the fuck is this? This is absolutely 100% a lie. He shot the dude in the head as he was chasing Kyle. Not sure you are trying to be funny or something but it’s dumb.",
"So you're saying you're not allowed to defend yourself if it's more than 2 people?",
"If they were whit people would be calling them heroes for disarming a dangerous threat to the community.",
"You aren't in a state of mutual danger when one person is chasing and the other is fleeing.\n\nThat is why it is so important for the courts to hash out who was the agressor and who was fleeing at the time.",
"Whoever cums last has to eat the biscuit.",
"Why should he have stayed home though? He didn't do anything wrong.",
"I mean lemme know what's wrong with the interpretation. The defense isn't arguing that he didn't kill the people, just that it was in self-defense.\n\nEDIT: Read up on difference between killing or murdering someone. He killed someone, but courts are determining whether it's murder. i.e. whether going to a dangerous place with a gun with the intention of defending an area and then killing someone is self-defense or not.",
"LMAO this is what lefties actually belive..",
"He killed three people which could have all been avoided he had just stayed home, instead of going out and buying a gun for a specific event, where he would kill 3 people.\n\nEven then he’s more of a confused kid than a true villain.\n\nBut that in no way makes him a hero",
"lmfao sick burn, nerd.",
"Kyle was definitely trying to run away. I get shit because I say that Kyle is going to walk and honestly probably shouldn’t have been charged with murder at all. He was an idiot for being there at all but his actions were justified.",
"The first rule of fuck-around-and-find-out is to not attack, chase, or threaten someone who is armed and potentially in fear for their life. \n\nEvery person who got shot that night absolutely earned it. \n\nThey thought they were safe because they were emotionally driven and “protected” by a mob. They moved and acted as a mob. \n\nAnd they died as individuals because they made stupid choices and attacked and armed person in retreat. \n\nThe kid walks and he absolutely should.",
"I suppose we will have to see what the jury renders to find out the actual subset. They could actually return almost anything.",
"Well yeah but the rioters shouldn't have even been there though.",
"It's a felony to take posses an illegal firearm, my friend, it doesn't matter what state you are in, it's a federal law.",
"If it helps, the dude isn’t facepalming he’s just checking his phone",
"Lol so you decided to downvote the video because you disagree with it? Its just a video with a simple statement it doesn’t lean either way. You viewed it and took it one way as if it were a definitive statement on the entire trial. Its just a clip of a moment that’s it",
"Wrong try again",
"Man who said he’d kill Kyle if he found him alone that night only hit him to save others! \n\nYou might want to rewatch the video evidence",
"You’re part of the militia by LEGAL CODIFIED STATUTE. Not MY definition. \n\nGood lord.",
"Sorry forgot this took place in Ganymede.",
"I wouldn’t go that far but I don’t think he should be convicted of murder.",
">I still haven't come across details of the first person he shot which caused him to be chased and to defend himself.\n\nReally? Cause the footage has been made public for months now.",
"We have to kill you so you stop defending yourself!",
"Watch the videos you idiot. Youre so wrong it hurts. Youre obviously talking out of your ass with no knowledge on the situation other than a single CNN headline most likely.",
"How is it a natural order of progression? A guy is standing there with a gun so naturally people are going to attack him?",
"Wasn’t that Rosenbaum, not “jump kick man”?",
"Attempting to disarm an armed person makes you armed in the eyes of the law. \n\nEveryone who died there deserved it.",
"Cause the only legitimate thing you have on him is a misdemeanor",
"Only legally. Not morally.\n\nWe all know why KKKyle was there, and just because a biased judge didn't allow evidence we all saw with our own eyes, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Intent has *very* important moral implications.",
"Because it doesn't matter in the case.",
"It’s all on video",
"Source?",
">Who said that?\n\nAre you saying nobody said this?",
"He showed up with the Proud Boys, that's what. And yeah it's pretty common to be judged by the company you keep. The Proud Boys are a racist organization, and they accept mixed race men, so long as they agree that European civilization ideals should dominate above any other ideals or cultural identities.",
"Completely agree. I consider myself left leaning and I'm against guns but I can clearly see this was self defense. He shouldn't have been there, he shouldn't have been armed. Take out the politics for a second and if you're being advanced on by any number of individuals while you're trying to retreat - you're within your rights to defend yourself especially since they intended to harm him and explicitly stated as such while chasing him down.\n\nRegardless of your political views, this is a kid and he's got to live out his remaining years having taken two lives to defend his own. If he intended to kill people, he would have kept shooting even after they turned around and ran. He did not. He continued to run and even went to the police. He didn't even continue firing on the witness because he was no longer a threat to him. That's better gun control than most police officers. \n\n\nThis isn't a mass shooter. It's a dumb kid that got put into a dangerous situation (by his own choices) but that doesn't make him a cold blooded murderer.",
"You should probably watch the video",
"Concealed carry is generally a further background check and a safety and legal class. This guy, as far as I know, has nothing that would have barred him from renewing. On top of that he's already taken the state mandated class on safety and legality. So while I agree with you, I prefer open carry so I know what crazies to stay away from, this guy was not waving his gun around needlessly. He only pulled it out when it was needed to stop a 'bad guy with a gun.' His problem was he hesitated (because he actually values peoples lives) and got shot for it. Don't pull a gun on someone else with a gun unless you are going to shoot them.",
"> Even if law and order is under attack by the left\n\nlol",
"It could have been avoided if they didn't try to attack him too. See how that works.\n\nYou can't control what others do but you can control yourself. So why don't you make a post about why these folks that got shot were threatening a man with an assault rifle, instead of complaining about what he did when threatened.",
"LOL, no one was shot in the back. Who are you claiming was shot in the back?",
"The dude was literally chasing him and throwing shit at him. He ran about far as he could before turning and shooting. Kyle put himself in the situation but he did shoot in self defense.",
"https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/55\n\n\n948.60(2) \n\nAny person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.\n\n\nYou're wrong.",
"Same for knives right?",
"Uh nope. He was mid strike with the skateboard when he was shot. It's clear as day in high res video. Like how can you even straight up lie when there is actually fucking live video of it. \nDo you hear yourself? You are straight up denying reality, it's insane.",
"He won't walk.",
"Say it louder for the people in the back.",
"By definition… you are wrong.",
"They don't wake up until 2 in the afternoon",
"People generally attack those who are identified as active shooters, yes.",
"Ya, this star witness they have on video here is from Milwaukee and brought a concealed carry handgun that he didn’t have a permit for. Lol everything the media tried to say about Kyle is doubly true for this guy",
"> \"holding a gun illegally\"\n\n?",
"Omg. You must be a troll or insane",
"Told the truth, good on him.",
"You have any evidence of that what so ever?",
"He levels the gun at him 1st, then runs and turns and fires while being chased. Rosenbaum never made contact with him and the forensics guy said its possible he \"lunged\" because a bullet broke his pelvis while running\n\nhttps://twitter.com/Andrew_Havranek/status/1458096191711875073?t=d4mV1uTwJFOBYptXoOkhgg&s=19",
"All of history speaks to it being true, see overpolicing of lefties at protests and even the insurrection. Even unarmed leftists are generally regarded as a greater threat than actual terrorists. And then there's the Black Panthers. Gun rights fundamentally exist for right wing nut jobs",
"The first person he shot? The guy who said he’d kill him if he found him alone that night and bum rushed him in an attempt to take his rifle?",
"It’s kind of sad when people get angry when they are confused. I don’t particularly enjoy it.",
"Being unarmed does not make it unjust to have been shot and killed when you are part of a mob actively chasing and threatening to kill someone.\n\nWould you consider both parties at fault if a mob of unarmed men chased and threatened to rape and murder your mother and your mom pulled a gun, which she was not legally in the right to carry in that state, and shot and killed a couple of them while they were chasing her?\n\nWould you consider your mom at fault for that?",
"All they knew was that he had just shot and killed someone and was fleeing the scene gun in hand, with all the bystanders yelling to stop him because he had just killed someone",
"Premeditation is only needed for 1st degree but I agree with your sentiment.",
"Whoa whoa whoa.... \nLaw broke initially by Rittenhouse and set off the chain reaction of events, to include the adult aged male who was pointing his weapon at the minor who was illegally in possession looking for trouble. \n\nIn his own house someone pointing a weapon at him, a minor using a firearm to defend themselves makes sense.... but not when he leaves the house, and goes to a protest illegally armed. That is exactly as damning as can be. At that point, everyone else is just trying disarm the little Columbine roleplayer.",
"So have you seen the video or not?",
"Lol calm down.",
">Seeking out a place where violence is happening is not acting in the interest of one’s own safety, if Kyle feared for his life it’s because he purposely put himself in a life threatening situation with the hopes that he would get to shoot people. One could hardly argue he made a concerted effort to “defend himself,” by going out of his way to put himself in harm’s way.\n\nThis is true of everyone involved. Aside from who’s to blame or what laws were broken, if there’s any lesson to be learned here, it’s this: don’t do dumb things at dumb times in dumb places with dumb people.",
"They talked about it earlier with Richie McGinnis. Rosenbaum, the man Kyle shot, approached them earlier in the night and threatened to kill Kyle and his friends if he saw them again later that night. When Rosenbaum saw Kyle again he chased him, lunged at Kyle and grabbed his gun trying to take it from him.",
"That KID had better restraint and weapons handling than most cops",
"This dude was either threatened or paid off. Probably both.",
"This but unironically and not written like a 5 year old wrote it.",
"And he also was protecting an Indian families car dealership, they even took friendly pictures with one of the brothers of the family during the riots.",
"The look of defeat on the prosecution should tell you everything you need to know.",
"RemindMe! One Month",
"So it was fine for the other people to be running around with weapons screaming kill him, kill him. \n\nYou're either fucking retarded or a physcopath",
"I don’t understand what you’re trying to say? His assault was justified because he was out past curfew?",
"All of history, except the parts that don’t. Ever heard of Waco, friend?",
"Seems like he did have business having a rifle considering he was attacked by other guys with guns idk",
"https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-kyle-rittenhouse-proud-boys-bar-prosecutors-ban-drinking-wisconsin-20210114-6nlqj2irevbtjfapw7cvpt454q-story.html%3foutputType=amp",
"You have not seen ANY of the video evidence if you think Rosenbaum was 20 feet away with his hands up. You have not watched ANY of the witness testimony if you think Rosenbaum was 20 feet away with his hands up. You are EXTREMELY misinformed as to the events of that night, and you should probably do some due diligence before commenting something like this. There is a detective that testified that there was evidence of stippling on Rosenbaum. Stippling refers to a pattern of gunshot residue burned into the skin that results from close proximity to a discharged firearm. Would you consider 20 feet close proximity? Watch the trial.",
"That's fair. I'd agree with killer. Whether it was justified or not hangs on the jury, but either way he killed.",
"So I can attack you if I just “think” you’re an active shooter?\nGood logic there",
"Conservatives are braindead. yeah.",
"Are people pointing out that Rittenhouse only had a gun pulled on him after he had shot and killed 2 unarmed people.",
"Well, it’s up to his lawyers to prove otherwise and the jury will decide.",
"How many people did the violent rioters shoot and kill in Kenosha again?",
">I mean lemme know what’s wrong with the interpretation.\n\n>He did **murder** two people.\n\n>The defense isn't arguing that he didn't **kill** the people, just that it was in self-defense.\n\nI think you know.",
"He told the truth. \n\n\nI cannot imagine Kyle losing this case.",
"Why?",
"Don't forget that Rosenbaum was also a pedophile who was threatening people prior to getting shot.",
"Blah blah blah, cry me a river.",
"Yes so it's all there for the world to see, self defence from a mob that was chasing him.",
"Because he killed someone? And had no reason to be where he was, armed with a rifle? Why would anyone champion this guy? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills",
"Nice way to make shit up. Racist piece of shit",
"So what? That has nothing to do with the legality or illegality of the action. The law doesn't really care about your feelings.\n\nWhen you see video that shows every person in the crowd and you know that the FBI has technology that they can track the phone of every person there, that should give you a moment of pause about the emotional reaction that our media was allowed to run with, when our government knew it was a false narrative to begin with.",
"Kyle is part Hispanic but white looking and all 3 people shot were white too. What are you taking about?",
"\"communist pedophiles\" lmao liberals hit a nerve there?",
"Actually you can see a guy in the fore ground of the video raise and fire a gun in the air. Check out any of the multiple breakdowns by hundreds of people. I’d suggest donut operator. His breakdown was good from my memory.",
"Same could be said for the guy he shot, too. None of the people out there should have been rioting and everyone that was who had a gun had no business being out there with said gun. Here we have two dummies with guns who came across each other and decided to use their weapons. Neither one is right in what they did, but in the eyes of the law, one of them was a little more right than the other.",
"What the fuck are you even talking about?",
"He was and still is a kid way in over his head, but when it comes to this particular case, I do not see Kyle being unlawful. I can't image he'll lose this case.",
"You haven't been watching the trial, it's obvious. Rosenbaum threatened to kill Rittenhouse earlier in the night, and later in the evening chased Rittenhouse, lunged at him, and grabbed Rittenhouses' gun. Afterwards Kyle went looking for police when Anthony Huber and Grosskreutz both then also started chasing Kyle. Huber hit Rittenhouse in the head, neck and shoulders with a skateboard trying to kill him. Grosskreutz pulled a gun on Kyle trying to shoot him. Kyle defended himself from both attackers.",
"That's not how it works.\n\nIn the real world, you don't get your way by simply claiming that every scenario is inherently against you thus creating a scenario where you an never possibly be in the wrong.",
"hellyeah, free my boy kyle",
"You don't have to premeditate murder to murder. The key word in that definition is \"unlawful\" it's why self defense, and killing as a soldier are not murder.",
"So what Rittenhouse is doing? Mkay",
"You are literally making shit up. It's on video. Wtf",
"> Blake was shot after he opened the door to an SUV, and was leaning into the vehicle.\n\nThis is so disingenuous. He was sexually assaulting his ex-girlfriend with a restraining order and reaching for a knife.",
"Imagine defending a pedophile and a wife beater because they align with your political views over someone who was defending themselves because they have different political views.",
"Nah, I obviously didn't say all that. There's nothing to \"agree\" or \"disagree\" with. I downvoted this for the reason I said, this is an ongoing criminal trial that is happening right now and this is one little piece of testimony taken out of context.",
"Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. \n\nDoes that hit a nerve? Lol!",
"And yet if he was shot and killed you would be crying.",
"Because he was the aggressor.",
"So manslaughter?",
"people could be from australia, still wouldn't matter. we don't have laws in this country that people only have cause to act politically if they sleep and receive mail within the boundaries of the location. otherwise you're arguing against sncc and freedom riders.",
"Now we just need to hear from the other 2 people he shot and this whole thing should be cleared up.",
"Yes but the logic needs to go both ways.",
"Good job equating rioters to wild animals. \n\nAre you also of the kind to say a woman shouldn't wear revealing clothing because \"we'd know that you courted the danger\"?",
"...in self defense. Let's be clear about this. Even the guy being questioned in the video admits this.",
"He went there looking to shoot people.",
"Has nothing to do with this, is kyles defense he was trying to protect himself from a pedophile? Sounds like your trying to justify this killing however you csn",
"That’s not what happened at all. If you have the time, watch the trial. The first person shot was running at Rittenhouse and lunged for his gun according to an eye witness. Even if you don’t believe that guys testimony the video shows Rosenbaum within a couple feet before he was shot and his hands were not up in the air.",
"I can see a small amount of relevancy of him saying to shoot him, but what is the relevancy of him being a pedophile to him being shot? Did Kyle know he was a pedophile?",
"I think you should read up on Wisconsin law, as you have absolutely 0 fucking clue what you are talking about.",
"Isn’t this similar to George Zimmerman where the killer was in the wrong all the way up until they were in a situation where they were possibly going to be killed and then they used deadly force. Even though they had already broken the law they were still within their right to defend themselves at that moment? Would this apply to someone that breaks into my house. If I aim a gun at my intruder do they have a right to defend themselves against me and kill me Bc their life is currently in danger even though they broke into my house?",
"You say you'd only call the police as a last resort, but if you think the police would not be a net positive, why would you call them *at all*? By that logic, if the police are more harm than good, even if your prospective murderer has their hands on you and you have yours on a phone, you wouldn't call them.\n\nI fully agree with you on the poor training, and that involvement can lead to terrible outcomes. It's a gamble, but it's about opting for a gamble that seriously increases your chances of survival/a positive outcome. And poor training can't be conflated with *intent*, nor is it an argument to say that they're a net negative in such a situation - it's just that they're not, on average, nearly as reliable as they could be. This is the first I've heard of Grossman so thanks for the link. But again, I don't see how one example of a perverse training provider is evidence that the police are collectively set up against you as a citizen.\n\nIf you don't think using the expression 'hive mind' with a sector of public empoyees, or any group of rational agents for that matter, is a wild accuasation... well I just don't know where to start. Some bad incentives? yes. Hive mind? Er, no.",
"can y'all motherfuckers plz stop calling this guy Kyle he's not your playmate ffs",
"How is he a racist? The two people died were a pedophile and a domestic abuser.",
"So... Unarmed. Got it...",
"No I wouldn’t. Because I’m not politically motivated. \nI don’t give a shit about the kid or the politics. \n\nWhat bothers me is people who obviously can’t see or think straight because they’re mentally warped by political alignment.\n\n—-\n\nThe people who attacked Kyle saw nothing first hand. \nThey acted as a mob based on assumption, hear-say, and group frenzy. \n\nKyle reacted based on an obvious and explicit threat to his physical person from which he couldn’t escape. \n\nIt’s OBVIOUS between the two parties who fucked up. \n\nKyle’s right to protect his body, takes precedence over the groups rights to protect their ideas, identity, or “members”. Particularly when the group is the one dictating the confrontation and not permitting escape.",
"People can just attack you if they just “think” their life is in danger? Good logic there. \n\nLol please try to think through what you say in the future.",
"Yeah and what I described is on video",
"Reddit pushing white nationalist agendas? Surely not...",
"Waaait, Kyle isnt turbo-Hitler 2.0?",
"According to the guy in the video Kyle aimed and pulled the trigger trying to shoot him while his hands were up. The gun jammed instead of shooting him. Then Kyle cleared the chamber and started to point the gun at him again, that's when this guy started aiming his gun at him because he had already tried to shoot him after he put his hands up. Then Kyle pulled the trigger a second time and this time it fired.\n\nI recommend watching the trial and not just what reddit is telling you.",
"What were the ethnic backgrounds of the victims?",
"Lol you’re a lemming",
"Dang if that’s ur high res I don’t wanna see your low res",
"Being out past curfew doesn’t justify assault. I mean everyone out there was out past curfew so I guess they all deserve a beating? The only reason you feel that way is because this whole thing is politicized. My opinion is that you need to reevaluate how you view these kinds of things.",
"Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal.",
"I believe the first guy he shot was the guy on video yelling’ shoot me ni$$er’\n\nhttps://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/walton-and-johnson/content/2020-08-28-man-shot-by-kyle-rittenhouse-provoked-people-to-shoot-me-used-n-word/",
"One thing is for sure: If no one had guns no one would be dead.",
"Clearest footage we have so far",
"They would not have been able to scare him if he had stayed home. Or as the kids say it today, \"if he had stayed in his lane.\"\n\nA good guy with a gun who shot a killed a man with a rifle who was about to kill some cops, was killed by the cops.\n\nEveryone, except the original bad guy did nothing wrong. But the hero is dead.",
"LOL you don't know how things get mainstreamed LOL.\n\n\"OnLY InSanE CoNSPirACy TheORIsts!\"\n\nIt started as a hoax, and is now mainstreamed into whitesupremacy:\n\n[https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/06/12/what-ok-hand-signal-means-militia-movement](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/06/12/what-ok-hand-signal-means-militia-movement)\n\nYou are welcome for this small bit of education.",
"Just by seeing the video footage you could tell this guy would not make a good witness.",
"Oh I was unaware that things aren't allowed to be coopted. Must be why the swastika is still seen as a symbol of peace even though the nazis used it.\n\nHe partied and celebrated killing people with white Supremacists. It's not defenseable.",
"Because everyone involved in this case is human? Oof, that's jaded of me. I should probably step away from Reddit for a while.",
"The one that fits a narrative.",
"Okay but the crowd doesn't know that. \n\nI really need this question answered. How am I supposed to to determine whether or not that shooter is innocent or not? If I apprehend a mass shooter running away from the crime you'd say I was a hero. But in this case I'd be a villain. What's the standard here? Can we never apprehend anybody we think is a criminal? Can the criminal legally shoot us if he's scared? Even if that criminal committed crimes previously? Maybe you might say 'not if he actually committed crimes before.\" Are we supposed to bet our lives and the legality of our potential deaths in a guess. It seems like saying Rittenhouse is innocent would de incentivized ANYONE to take down a shooter if they were unsure.\n\nEdit: The 'good guy with a gun crowd' is a lot more okay with setting the precedent that it's illegal to apprehend criminals than I thought they'd be.",
">Yes, my opinion is he shouldn't have been out: he's not a soldier and it's not a warzone. \n\nWell that also goes for the other people who were running around the weapons, yet here we are.",
"Right? He didn't walk the streets threatening people with his rife. He went to guard a (from what I understand) a storefront from being damaged. Ill advised, but not illegal.",
"You're a total piece of shit. Emotional fucking retard.",
"Thye didnt scare him. They literally tried to kill him. Wtf",
"Wisconsin allows you to open carry a long rifle below the age of 18. \n\nThe purpose of the law was made was to allow hunting, but the wording of it is more open ended. It will be disputed, but I believe he had the right to carry it.\n\nIt's more likely he gets in trouble for a straw purchase, but I don't know Wisconsin laws for private purchases. Like in Michigan, a close relative can purchase a gun for a minor. Like, my dad gave me my hunting rifle when I was 14, perfectly legal.\n\nNow, none of that is relevant to the murder charges. But he is charged with illegal possession. So, we'll see if the prosecution can be competent enough to prove that.",
"And this here folks is why we have a trial and a legal process.",
"The people who are championing him think he was being a good samaritan there to protect against the evil leftist rioters because thats the narrative in their media bubble.",
">Why do I feel that we went through months and months of saying Kyle is a vicious white supremacist murderer\n\nBecause he is. 17 year old kid literally shows up to a protest completely unrelated to himself in a different city with a loaded weapon that he obtained illegally so he could intimidate (and ultimately kill) protestors. He didn't drive out there so he could buy some ice cream, minding his own business until this guy pulled a gun on him. Rittenhouse shot someone else right in front of him moments earlier.\n\nThe American baseline for \"normal\" is so insanely skewed in favour of gun violence.",
"Lol. Yeah let’s get a bunch of racists together and all pose for multiple photos with that symbol while wearing a “free as fuck” shirt after killing a couple people. \n\nAnyone who has seen the several photos know exactly what dog whistle their symbol is, as stupid as it was. This wasn’t one photo where he was saying a-okay, it was every picture with the proud boys. \n\nYou’d be arguing the swastika was just a good luck symbol from India if he was wearing it too. Everyone knows exactly what he is, let’s not pretend otherwise.",
"Well Kyle didn’t think anything, he knew, because 1st there was a fully grown man charging at full speed at Kyle yelling insults and throwing shot at him while a gun was shot in the air behind both of them making Kyle think he was being shot at. Would you just assume someone is trying to hug you if their charging at you like that?\n\nAnd Kyle knew he was hit in the head with a skateboard and knew that Anthony was grabbing his rifle when he shot. \n\nAnd Kyle knew he had a handgun being aimed at him when he shot the 3rd guy. \n\nWhile the 2 last guys to be shot only heard from the crowd that Kyle was an active shooter, they never actually saw it with their own eyes. \nSo thus, they only “thought” he was an active shooter, they didn’t “know” like how Kyle did when he was being attacked.",
"And you're a racist Trumper. Celebrating people dying is never a good thing you sick fucks.",
"Did you not even take the time to watch the dudes testimony? He admits he never saw the shooting of Rosenbaum. He didn't know Kyle had shot anyone. He saw everyone else chasing a dude, and followed suit.",
"Ah yes the black people. Who could forget about race at a time like this. George floyd also held a gun to a pregnant womans stomach so there's that lol!",
"In your opinion, at what point does self defense become justifiable? He was being chased by an extremely aggressive individual. Was he supposed to wait until the guy caught him and wrestled his gun away from him? That video just makes the case for self defense even stronger.",
"dude is a cold blooded murderer who traveled across state lines to commit his crime. Murder 1, life behind bars minimum.",
"He was out to murder someone the moment he left his home with a big gun and a bunch of ammo. If the \"law\" protects him here the \"law\" is just wrong. If he didn't murder someone he did some shit almost equal to that and he deserves to big locked up, put on a list, banned from guns for life, SOMETHING",
"Can you illustrate one of the negative interactions?",
"You have no ability to read his mind so how can you claim to know that?",
"lol you are all over this thread. Found Kyle's burner account.",
"Wow you’re big stupid. \nGrosskreutz isn’t dead and he admitted he wasn’t trying to surrender. He was pointing a gun a the kids head.",
">This isn't a mass shooter. It's a dumb kid that got put into a dangerous situation (by his own choices) but that doesn't make him a cold blooded murderer.\n\nI'm inclined to agree with you on most of your points except for this one. We know from video evidence and testimonial that Rittenhouse had a history of violence and had fantasies of shooting protestors like he did. If he was just a dumb kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I doubt he would have posed with Proud Boy leaders after the fact.\n\nRittenhouse is innocent of murder in the letter of the law, however he is still an absolute piece of shit that went looking for a reason to shoot someone that night. It just so happens he got what he wanted.",
">Even if law and order is under attack by the left\n\nThe fact you started writing that sentence, finished and hit post is quite a feat\n\nSo I guess January 6th was also the lefties right...",
"Thank you!",
"Ok but, wouldn’t that go to intent if he knowingly went to a protest a state away armed with an AR15? What was his purpose there? He shouldn’t have been there and then a bunch of people ended up dead. \n\nAnd who’s in the right between the two different guys both pointing guns at each other? In this particular instance I guess Rittenhouse was defending himself but wasn’t the other guy also defending himself by pointing his gun at the kid who just killed someone? Does Wild West law apply and whoever wins the gunfight is the one in the right?",
"Nice of them to let him out of daycare to second chair. /r/13or30",
"Wasn’t talking about Rosenbaum.\n\nWas talking about the guy with a skateboard that Kyle shot seconds before he pulled his gun",
"And that's why, when it's all said and done, a second conversation need to begin. A conversation that doesn't concern legalities, or technicalities. One that focuses on the factors surrounding the specifics of the shooting. Everyone involved should ask why they were there that day, why they were actually there. People on both sides were just looking for a fight. A fight was had. No law should prevent someone from traveling across state lines, or defending oneself, or stop someone from protesting or safeguarding their own business. \n\nHowever that still leaves a lot of room for shitty situations to arrise. Where people die and we scramble through the specifics to assign blame. \n\nThe reality is that some people are there for good reasons, with a peaceful purpose. Some people came trying to find trouble. \n\nThat's the actual conversation. The government will never be able to successfully legislate us into peace if when we step out our doors we are looking to harm one another. \n\nOur society is held together by our social bond, by our shared moral values. Much more than it is our laws.",
"But rittenhouses first victim wasn’t because he was in danger. Why does rotten house likely get off scot free after murdering people, and his defense is that he is a giant coward. Wtf",
"Would have been one had Kyle not defended himself against illegally armed violent criminals trying to take his life.",
"Defending his area? What vigilante cosplay world do you live in? You act like this was civil war.",
"You're hitting on one of my prevailing theories in life that I refer to as \"The 2 assholes\" theory.\n\nSimply put, it takes 2 assholes refusing to back down, to escalate an entirely avoidable situation to a critical point, resulting in tragedy. \n\nThis entire situation could have been avoided if either side backed down, neither did, because they are assholes, and some are now, dead assholes.",
"There are people who think the law determines morality, and there are people who think that morality *should* determine the law.\n\nLot of people in this thread of the former mindset.",
"As a European following this case, do criminal justice cases usually get politicized as much as this one?",
"And if the people attempting to assault him “sTaYeD iN tHeIr LaNe” then they wouldn’t have gotten shot. What kind of idiot tries to fight someone with a rifle?",
"Yes. The right wingers are creating false narratives. The guy shot 3 people and 2 were unarmed.",
"If he provoked the crowd and then killed them in self defense then anyone can legally murder someone as long as they claim its \"self defense\". The forensics man just testified that he had no gun residue on his hands that would be consistent with him grabbing the gun.",
"The only people who died of gunfire that night were people he shot. If he was in danger, how come he was UNIQUELY in danger in such pandemonium?\n\nLook. Everyone there rioting was a fucking waste of oxygen, and he went there to add more problems. Before any of that happened he was seen punching a girl in the back of the head, shouting at and confronting numerous protestors and then heading directly into the riot when people started burning a dumpster.\n\nA dumpster fire is NOT property damage and doesn't warrant the use of lethal force. And he showed up with a long arm and repeatedly headed into the fracas with it.\n\nAnd he absolutely is associated with Illinois white supremacists and 3 percenters. \n\nAnd I stand with what I said. He exacerbated the situation and probably didn't violate the law beyond reasonable doubt, because the people he killed were criminals and did in that moment pose a threat to him.\n\nWe will see. But he is a piece of shit and so are the white rioters who show up for BLM protests.",
"So you are saying average citizens should not own guns to stop active shooters?\n\nAnd/or \n\nPointing a firearm at a person is attacking them so cops attack citizens every day?",
"The Times has a visual investigation that breaks this down very well. The shooting is at 17:00 minutes https://youtu.be/VpTW2AJE9MQ",
"No one was killed jan 6th. Except for Ashley Babbitt who was executed by law enforcement.\n\nJan 6th, which was I guess were calling them “mostly peaceful protests” now.",
"Good, fuck liberals",
"Rittenhouse packed up his gun and traveled to the protest in hopes of putting himself into a firefight. Its like a young girl dressing provocatively and getting wasted alone in a frat house.",
"And what about the looters who were out there armed?",
"Wasn't there a guy with a skateboard trying to bash heads in?",
"Says the guy who doesn’t seem to know who the first victim was… which was Rosenbaum… who he shot in the head at point blank and not from 20 feet away.",
"He still has a gun, and is still a threat to everyone around him, or at least it's reasonable for him to think that. See, that's what you don't get and will never get. You're switching whose perspective is valid. You're starting with the conclusion. Rittenhouse is always correct when the interprets a threat, even though nobody ever fired as shot at him and he shot 3 people. You just assume the conclusion.",
"Not trolling, legit question that applies here: Can you claim self defense while in the process of committing a crime?",
"People have got to start trying to understand jurisprudence... it does not matter what Rittenhouse was doing there.. or what Grosskreutz was doing there it's all irrelevant.. it does not matter who crossed state lines it does not matter who is in Antifa. What matters is that Rittenhouse had a gun pointed at him by a person whom he reasonably believed wished to maim or kill him. And he responded to that threat. Period. The circumstances do not matter, that fact it was during a riot or that he was too young to have a rifle is also irrelevant.",
"Then charge him with breaking curfew and unlawful possession of a firearm.",
"This is the shit I hate.\n\nHas nothing to do with what OP said. You're trying to make it sound like some think both what you said and OP said are incompatible. OP said nothing about the other dude and quite likely agrees with you.",
"Reddit has done this so many times. Just look at the Boston bombing.",
"Rosenbaum is a homeless man who was more than an hour away from where he could stay, released from the hospital, on antipsychotic meds, shouting at people to shoot him, and chasing down minors until he corned one and got shot. \n\nBut please, tell me how Kyle calculated this attack for an aggressive bipolar man to chase him two blocks. How much of a mastermind genius is Kyle to orchestrate such a perfect murder?",
"If you are chasing him you have the *option* to leave and walk the opposing direction to the one you are chasing him in.\n\nHe does not have that *option*, therefore he is more at threat from you than you are at threat from him.\n\nIf you were to shoot him while chasing him it is not self defense.\n\n>As far as I can see, shooting anyone for any reason is pretty much legal self defense as long as you believe it is, no stops\n\nThis is incorrect, you can't perceive the threat, then advance on the threat and lay chase to it and shoot them while they flee and claim self defense because they had a gun. That is not self defense.",
"This is probably the most reasoned response I've read.",
"What the prosecutors might focus on is that Kyle Rittenhouse, by obtaining a firearm he was not legally allowed to be in possession of and by crossing state lines and by inserting himself into what he attested to be (so he believed) a potentially volatile situation, then the self-defense argument is moot.\n\nThe argument would be that he went to the protest looking for a reason or excuse to engage in violence, and he found one. Self-defense arguments tend to fall apart when the person attesting to self-defense intentionally puts themselves into harms way when it could have been easily avoidable (not like \"he should have just left when he was being bullied\" avoidable, but \"don't cross state lines and go into a volatile area\" avoidable). Kyle Rittenhouse took many multiple, premeditated steps to put himself INTO that situation.\n\nYou can't claim innocence or ignorance about someone hitting you when you put on boxing gloves, travel a state away, step into a ring with another boxer, and act surprised when that boxer comes to punch you.\n\nI am not defending anyone's actions in this situation. This is a lot of very angry people acting in a very stupid manor. No one gets a pass here. Everyone is guilty of something at this point from what I've heard.",
"That’s because it’s asinine to wait for someone to actually grab your gun before shooting in self defense. And how is running away from an attacker provoking them?\n\nWatch the damn videos, dude. Had Rosenbaum not pursued Kyle, he would still be alive.",
"> Rittenhouse packed up his gun and traveled to the protest\n\nThat's a lie. He was given the gun at Kenosha. Way to kill your argument before it even starts.",
"And manslaughter or something, doesn't sound like that's enough time behind bars at all. Breaking curfew lololol like he's some 12 year old who snuck out away from his parents, is that even probation? Need to make an example of this fuckhead so more people don't do the same shit, if he didn't bring that big gun he never would have thought he had to use it. See how that works? He should have stayed at home that night and in my opinion he should have to stay at home in prison now for a lot of nights. You can have your own opinion and the law will let him go or whatever so we (you and I and the law) can agree to disagree.",
"His actions speak for themselves.",
"Ignore this dude. He's all over the thread just randomly bringing up topics no one is claiming. He's strawmanning everything.",
"Sure, having two officers attempt to arrest me when I called them after my ex threw a steak knife at my head and started destroying my property. \n\nOr being harassed with phone calls from officers at my place of work because the same ex fabricated stories about how I was going to post her nudes and I was a danger to her. \n\nIt’s way too easy for them to be weaponized, and they are just itching to bring someone in. So I don’t fuck with it, personally.",
"One thing for sure: if the queen had a set of balls she'd be king.",
"Do you think those kids Rosenbaum raped cried?\n\nNewly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal.",
"It's insane that self-defense law is extended to someone who chose to go into a contentious situation with an assault rifle. \n\nThis case really makes me think the ole orange president missed a country on the shithole list.",
"reddit took an L over the virginia election few weeks prior and desperate for a \"win\"",
">the first person he shot wasn't attacking him\n\nMaybe you should equip yourself with the basic facts of the case before commenting on it. \n\n>neither was the person in the clip this thread is about.\n\nThe person you're referring to *testified that he pointed a gun at Rittenhouse before Rittenhouse shot him*.",
"The facts that he was there with a rifle can go towards showing he was the initial aggressor in some jurisdictions. I’m not sure if that is the case here, but that looks to be what it boils down to, at least for me.",
"That child rapist not the second one Kyle shot that night, yes",
"But part of the point is that the law is shit made by conservative nutjobs, for conservative nutjobs so 🤷 funny how y'all play fast and loose with the \"legal vs ethical\" distinctions.\n\nEven so. Rittenhouse was still a threat to others. It's fair to say he thought he was still a clear and present danger, hence pursuing him (see: every black man chased and executed whose murdered gets by with that). And it doesn't matter what's REAL only if he FELT him and others were in danger. Because, again, that's the standard lent to white conservatives. And there's more than enough reason to view a child with an illegal gun with ties to fascists as a clear and present danger, if he's running, he could be running to kill others (and he did).",
"Yes although some stay on the state level. Unless you’re a minor under 15 cases can blow up",
"Shooting somebody who is actively attempting to hurt you does not make you an \"active shooter\". \n\nEven if somebody yells that you are an active shooter after you defend yourself, you don't get to go pull out your gun and try to chase the dude down who is clearly fleeing. That makes you the aggressor. \n\nThink about it from Kyle's viewpoint. He is attacked, he shoots. Somebody chases him and put a gun on him, he shoots. It's not hard to see how this is self defense. If you watch the videos, Kyle is attempting to retreat the entire time.",
"Kyle was 17 at the time and as a convicted child rapist rosenbaum obviously would’ve been ordered to stay away from minors. Seems kinda relevant",
"It doesn’t blanket allow it though, it’s based on the circumstance, but yeah, definitely gonna come down to how it’s argued in court and how the judge sees it. \n\nI don’t believe he has the right to carry it in this context. He wasn’t hunting or in transit, he explicitly went to help quell a riot. I’m not anti-gun, but I don’t think teenagers should be encouraged to arm themselves to “help” the police or military in a riot. They’re not trained. They don’t have the maturity or emotional control. It’s bad enough dealing with 16 year old drivers on the road. I don’t want them walking around with rifles at night trying to roleplay as cops. He’s free to join the police or military when he’s 18.\n\nThe hunting part makes sense, but actively going to unrest and engaging with the crowd seems like a recipe for disaster. This ain’t Red Dawn.",
"this is your brain on reddit",
"I agree with you, but in the opposite point you are trying to make lol. Go watch the video. You are wrong, Kyle was under attack the whole time, all while attempting to resteat until he couldn't.",
"Kyle had shot rosenbaum and then huber and then leveled the gun at gaige, does gaige not get the same claim of self defense?",
"Lol you’re a fucking clown, get a grip. Your downvote means nothing and you’ve been completely wrong.",
"Idefk who this is",
"Also in this video he is just checking his phone",
"He killed a child rapist who was attacking him - I’ll sleep just fine knowing he’s dead 😊",
"Happy about it or not, I have to agree.\n\nRittenhouse and this wannabe militia group of his are 100% responsible for this shooting on the grounds that they antagonized the situation to where it go to this point. HOWEVER, in the eyes of the law, Rittenhouse appears to have fired in self defense. \n\nOf course this will almost certainly cause a not guilty verdict. Which itself is fine. What bothers me is it's going to, in the eyes of certain people, set two narratives:\n\n1) Proof that every single person who believes that police are unfairly killing black Americans, and who protests or rallies as a result, is some sort of violent looting thug \n2) That the presence of armed civilian militias augmenting or even replacing police is legally justified, and that they can shoot anyone they decide needs it. \n\n Yes I am well aware that is far from what's being discussed at the Rittenhouse trial, but that is how people will take it. This is going to be seen as a green light for groups like the Proud Boys to patrol the streets armed and looking for fights.",
"Man this thread is hilarious. Reddit is fuming cuz he told the truth.",
"No ones talking about rights, just some common sense. Americans are so concerned about the right to do something that they don't even stop to consider whether they should do something, just because they can. Only americans would think showing up to such an incendiary situation with a rifle strapped to their chest isn't a needless and reckless escalation.",
"You can't murder and then claim self defense.",
"Was his first victim the skateboard head smasher or the...child lover who multiple witnesses in court said seemed violent and was chasing him grabbing the gun.",
"He had the option to never be the agitator in the first place. And it doesn't matter, he has the option to defend himself and others, he doesn't *have* to leave, just like you don't *have* to defend yourself by shooting someone ever. \n\nYou don't get it, you don't see how you are reading things into each person's actions on fundamentally different standards that already determine the outcome. Just too dim for it.",
"So it’s the cops fault you stuck your dick in crazy?",
"Except Rosenbaum was caught on video threatening to kill Rittenhouse. Then he chased him, and assaulted him. \n\nThe prosecution own witnesses testified to it. The one closest at the time, testified that he said \"Fuck you!\" And grabbed for the gun before Rittenhouse fired.\n\nRosenbaum was an immediate threat to Rittenhouse's life.",
"The video actually shows that Kyle showed restraint. He didn’t shoot when he was a safer distance away. He only shot when Rosenbaum was a few feet away and in danger of being caught.",
"And proof of that claim? Also, again, the first person he murdered was not threatening him. Rittenhouse is a coward",
"Trying to hit somebody with a skateboard is also a threat to your life. Wtf are you smoking.",
"He would if he had shot Kyle. But he isn’t the one on trial here.",
"Did he kill anyone? Oh right the guy who brought a gun across state lines killed him.",
"A cop was killed?",
">As far as I can see, shooting anyone for any reason is pretty much legal self defense as long as you believe it is, no stops\n\nThis is incorrect, you can't perceive the threat, then advance on the threat and lay chase to it and gun them down while they flee and claim \"self defense\" just because they had a gun and you perceived it as a threat. \n\nThat is not self defense, that is an offensive act, not a defensive one.",
"Nah lets keep saying it. CHILD RAPIST.\n\nNewly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal.\n\nNothing of value was lost and I would piss on his grave if given the chance.",
"Don't be an active shooter and you won't get attacked.",
"Its very easy to have both at the same time or have un-synchronized switching of roles , which is a large part of the problem here and other self defense cases.",
"The first guy? The guy who through a plastic bag at home and he shot in the back. That guy. Id go after a mad gunmen murdering people with my skateboard too",
"The guy who assaulted Rittenhouse with a deadly weapon got shot, so No-bicep Larry pulls his gun?\n\nWhat?",
"Idk about paid BLM actors, but he is literally correct about the \"communist pedophile\" bit.",
"Only if you're attacked. \nBut if you're buying a sandwich no one will believe you.",
"Travis Scott’s concerts are more deadly than Jan. 6th.",
"Generally yes. I expect it varies by state, but usually self defense is considered at the moment force is applied. that was what the focal point of the Trayvon martin case several years ago was about, at the moment it was self defense even though it seemed like the altercation was started by the guy who shot him",
"Karmas a bitch.",
"The dudes Rittenhouse showed up with were there the previous night shooting protesters with paintballs and pepper spray, dude. \n\nIt was a whole fuckeroo of shitlords in every direction.",
"If I bought a rifle and started to patrol an area, I am within my rights.\n\nI could even choose to patrol the neighborhood around the headquarters of CNN, or FOX. I am within my rights.\n\nSome reporter makes a threatening statement. Because they feel threatened by the fact that I am walking around in public with a rifle.\n\nAnother person comes to the conclusion that I may be a mass shooter person, like we have all seen on TV. He tries to take my gun. I fear for my life and kill him.\n\nNow another person who was walking down the street pulls his weapon, because he heard the shooting. I see that he has a weapon pointed in my direction so I shoot him.\n\nDoesn't make a whole lotta sense.\n\nIf everyone is doing thing the correct way why are so many shot?\n\nIt wasn't always like this.\n\nHow I learned\n\nTo stop worrying \n\nAnd love the gun.",
"You act like it isn't.",
"It's a half truth of what was actually said. Grosskeutz did say weapon was pointed toward Rittenhouse prior to the shot, but when showed the photo again by the defense, he then says that that gun was only pointed in general direction, which was in the photo when Rittenhouse shot Grosskeutz and you can see the injury. He also said that Rittenhouse pointed the firearm at him first. There's a ton that was omitted from this video to prove a baseless point.",
"Don't attack somebody and you won't turn them into an \"active shooter\"",
"He had as much right to be there with a weapon as any of the armed rioters. Why are we singling him out?\n\nYou can say he wasnt there with good intentions but i would counter with the rioters who had weapons.\n\nNo one was out that night to fix potholes and feed the homeless.",
"Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal.\n\nI've had sex I swear! Just not with kids that I was raping!",
"The protestor was there to protest injustice in the city. He had every legal right to be armed (presumably) for his own defense. if he had no legal right to be carrying that gun (just like Rittenhouse did not have a right for one to be transported across state lines just to give to him), then that is a separate legal matter and that protestor should be handled accordingly. \n\nRittenhouse, on the other hand, was driven across state lines to go to a city he had no need to be in, to defend property that was not his, with a gun he was not legally allowed to hold, as part of a private militia that had no legal authority and should not have been condoned by the police to dispense law and order on its own. It is not his job, or any of those person's job, to provide armed security for property in another city that is not theirs.",
"Yes, absolutely! Imagine you were jay walking or littering while someone tried to kill you. Would you expect your privilege of self defense to be voided because you were breaking the law?\n\nThe only thing right now on trial is if KR acted in self defense, nothing else really matters at the moment.",
"And yet one is impossible and the other is an issue we can control but you know yeah let’s just keep letting our children be mass killed because we want to protect ourselves from the scary government or whatever excuse people come up with to want to keep their guns.",
"By saying your going to kill them and then chasing them down. Otherwise known as attempted.",
"Google Anthony Huber, not hard. Even snopes waaaaaaaay down in their article on him admit he’s a serial rapist. Fuck that guy, glad he’s dead 😊",
"Oh really? Everyones literally saying kyle is innocent cause gaige pointed his gun at him and gaige testified that he did cause he feared for his life, same argument kyle had that youre saying is self defense.",
"He knows what he's charged with and what gestures might be difficult to use at the moment. To say he wouldn't be aware of that is absolutely ridiculous.\n\nHe's wearing a shirt that says free as fuck and hangs around with people singing the Proud Boys antheme. It's not a far reach, that he's enjoying his status in the far right.",
"> obtained a weapon illegally.\n\nThis still has not been proven. Due to the murky laws it can as well be that he obtained the weapon legally. It's up to the jury to decide.",
"He wasn’t murdering people. In fact the Judge decreed the defense was unable to use the word Victim because of what was going on. They are able to say rioters or arsonists. STOP listening to CNN. Even lefties by and large know CNN is as fraudulent as it gets. Gets news anywhere else…like anywhere. And watch the videos of the riots that night. \n\nThe guy on the stand could go to jail for lying under oath as it’s on video. Rushing someone with a rifle and then pointing a gun is insane and lucky he is alive.",
"Can you read his thoughts?",
"Well skateboard guy only attacked him because he had just shot jumo kick guy and jump kick guy had only kicked him because Kyle was pointing his gun at an unarmed person.\n\nHe only got attacked because they were trying to get him to stop pointing his gun/shooting people",
"Tell that to George Zimmerman. God, it's so tiring talking to you people. Like yeah, that's the way it's presented, it's just not the way it works out. Different people's perceptions of threats and reasonable actions/reactions are read differently and with an obvious skew. And that's my whole point. And you're just like \"nah\" even though there's clear, obvious counterexamples. And you can say \"that was one case\" but must conservatives view Zimmerman as a hero so it's not a stretch to think they agree with the view of the situation, and world therefore view a similar one the same way and act on a jury the same way.",
"So no, he did not kill anyone, also that does not constitute attempted murder/manslaughter.",
"Except the video shows that he absolutely was not. He was attacked first and was attempting to retreat the entire time.",
"Not sure. Actively robbing a bank? Probably not. Downloaded some videos earlier in the day? Probably yes. \nI guess it begs the question, what crimes did Rosenbaum think Kyle committed that allowed him to chase down Kyle and try to take his gun?",
"I'm saying that if you join a mob of people and run up on someone holding a rifle, who has been knocked to the ground, kicked in the face and hit in the head with a skateboard... then you point your gun at the guy on the ground, don't expect the guy with the rifle to just sit there and let you shoot him — You may just end up with a jellied cranium, a cavern in your chest or a vaporized bicep",
"You're making yourself look willfully ignorant.\nWatch the video and show me where he shoots someone 20 feet away from him.\n\n🥾👅",
"If you are a white conservative, that is exactly how it works and it's played out in court over and over and they keep writing the laws to make it come out that way more and more.",
"Good Samaritan.",
"Wtf how is this guy not in jail for life",
"again, you would have been behooved to watch the testimony. Guy draws his gun before kyle shoots anyone, you can see him on video pull it from his waistband behind his back before he starts chasing Kyle. He then ran with said gun, in hand, and joined a group that was attacking Kyle.",
"It is, and a court will look at what the role was when the shooting happened. \n\nThankfully this is made relatively easy in this case, video evidence and this confession painted a very clear picture that Rittenhouse pulling the trigger was a defensive act.\n\nIn this instance in particular, Rittenhouse can be seen back turned in full retreat just prior with an angry mob in pursuit of him, he trips, the mob advances and assaults him and then shots are fired, he hesitates to fire on Grosskruetz until he pulls and aims a loaded gun at him. Just goes to show that even in the heat of all of this with the adrenaline at its max, Rittenhouse still had trigger discipline, waiting for a identifiable threat prior to pulling the trigger.",
"Well, Grosskreutz already cleared at least one of those up by clearly stating that he was attacking Rittenhouse with his skateboard.\n\nBy the way, the testimony of the detective (I think? I watched the whole day and there were a \\*lot\\* of pointless witnesses for the prosecution) was downright bizarre. Or rather, the questions by the prosecution were bizarre. Did he know what a skateboard was? Had he ever been on a skateboard? What the hell?\n\nI think Grosskreutz absolutely broke the prosecution.",
"They should give him a medal.",
"That's some peak whataboutism. Yeah, rioters should have stayed home, but Kyle's not a riot cop. What was he doing there with a rifle?",
"Here's one",
"This is one of multiple people he shot. This is not the whole case.",
"Do you seriously have to start inventing cockamamie bullshit to demonize this guy? Isn't there enough actually bad stuff he did that you can use?",
"too late this \"facepalm\" thing is already all over the Internet\n\nwonder if the guy sees any of these articles/posts talking about him \"facepalming\" lol",
"Cringe",
">Were his actions self-defense according to state law? Based on the evidence, it certainly looks that way.\n\nBy the same logic, the witness pointing his gun at Rittenhouse was self-defence because he had a VERY good reason to fear for his life - Rittenhouse had already shot someone.",
"Do you think pointing a gun at a person would be considered provoking them? Do you think kyle will or should testify to hear his side of what happened?",
"Know the feeling. Take a beat. Grab some coffee. Enjoy a nice walk outside.",
"Yes, of course. You’re illegally dumping trash off the side of the road (or driving without a license, or forging passports, or whatever). A guy pulls up and starts coming at you with a knife. You can defend yourself.",
"Inb4 this gets downvoted to shit",
"Started as a meme created by /pol/ to laugh at left-wing over-reaction legitimately became a hand gesture to gloat about white supremacist beliefs. Now it's the ultimate gaslighting tool. It being an innocent hand gesture, or some stupid 4chan meme doesn't prevent it from also being used by white supremacists. \n\nIn Rittenhouse's case he showed up to a BLM protest, murdered people and is now being groomed by actual white supremacist groups, posing with them for pictures and displaying the hand gesture. He's not doing it for innocent reasons.",
"You're typing a Reddit comment, not a court deposition. Neither had any business being there.",
"There are areas controlled by our government where you will be shot if you attempt to break into them. Given her history Babbitt should have known that better than most.",
"No he pulled his gun out a few minutes before.",
"*fuck modern day liberals",
"We all make mistakes, but I never made the home-invasion-hold-a-pregnant-woman-at-gunpoint mistake.",
"Zero chance, self defense and a rioting mob chasing you in a very threatening way screaming “get him” then a gun pulled?",
"Driving with an expired license is a crime. Does that mean I can come up to your car and kill you?",
"He's lied multiple times so far so probably.",
"If you're just gonna make people up then why not make him more of a saint or something.",
"The idea that rittenhouse is the only one who can claim self-defense even though he had already shot 2 people is nonsense.",
"It depends on the circumstance. Here's a crude example:\n\nI break into your house. I see you have a gun and are attempting to fire at me. I fire first and kill you. I can't claim self defense in this situation because I am the aggressor.\n\nNow let's say I break into your house, I see you getting a gun, I turn and run. You chase me for two blocks but I can't get away from you. Finally I hit a dead end and as you are trying to shoot me, I shoot you first. I can absolutely claim self defense in that situation",
"“Advancing on him”. Slightly different.",
"They literally beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher. What Kool aid flavor is in your cup?",
"> but using it isn’t an escalation of force\n\nThere is a large swath of people out there who subscribe to the doctrine that victims should only be allowed to defend themselves with the same weapons as they are being assaulted with. I.e. you are not allowed to use a gun against a skateboard. It's a flawed and immoral logic, but there are a lot of immoral people out there.",
"He was trying to defend himself from violent people",
"Fuck America. I never dreamed this country would make me hate it so much day after day after day.\n\nNonstop bullshit forced down the average hard-working guy's throat. \n\nThis waste of money trial should not even be happening.\n\nJust remember, inflation is transitory, and fuck you.",
"> I have never heard someone attempt this argument before\n\nThen you must spend a lot of time in echo chambers. This is not a new argument.",
"How is he drinking at bars at 17 years old?",
"You just want to believe whatever you want, as long as it fits the racist narrative of \"black person bad, cops good\". Your type digs through the history of the victims to criticize, but don't bother to take a look at the history of the aggressors. Floyd was murdered over a fake $20 bill by a cop with a history of use of force complaints that went wholly unchecked. \n\n\nhttps://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/08/facebook-posts/evidence-shows-george-floyds-death-was-not-result-/",
"I'm sorry, are you saying I invented something? What did I invent?",
"This trial is over. They never should have even tried. And the defense hasn’t even had their turn yet.",
"Oh shouldn’t have said pointing his gun rather than pulled out",
"Thank you",
"Separating the assault and its conclusion, this is still kind of true. You can protest anywhere you want (with some restrictions). There's no reason a person can't protest in another city. \n\nThe problem with Rittenhouse and the other people with him is they were effectively forming a mob militia. They did not own property in Kenosha. I think the one guy did, so OK he's maybe got a right to defend that one building. But the people in this group travelled from another city for the sole purpose of enforcing law and order themselves in not just for that property, but any and all in the area. The decided to supersede the police. They had no right establishing themselves as a private militia. \n\nImagine it this way. Imagine I didn't like that there were anti-vaxxers in your city protesting vaccines. And imagine some of them got violent. I decide since there isn't enough law and order, it's gonna be ME that saves the day. I load up my truck with all my friends and all the guns we can carry and I go to this protest and I start pointing guns at people and telling them what to do like I am the police. Is that acceptable? Are we going back to the wild west days of posses and militias?",
"Yes, gaige got shot trying defend himself against violent people",
"your right, it constitutes self defense for Kyle, since Rosenbaum was trying take his gun and do who knows what.",
"Victim blaming. I bet you think women only have themselves to thank if they are raped on a bar crawl too?",
"\"I'll be a lawyer, I said. I'll put bad guys away and make a difference, I said...\"",
"Well, no one has to worry about him ever again.",
"Gaige put himself in this situation and illegally carried concealed, Change My Mind.",
"Don't take a machine gun to a protest with the intent of killing protestors and you won't be labeled an \"active shooter\".",
"So now you’re arguing that Rosenbaum was defending himself? I’m confused.",
"Skater boi used his skateboard for what he perceived as self defense.\n\nIt was a poor choice.\n\nAt that point everyone else in that area could come to the conclusion that the person with the rifle, who just shot someone is the agressor.\n\nIf \"paramedic hat\" had shot Rittenhouse in the head instead of what he did it would be a different story. He would be a hero today, stopped a potential mass shooter would be the story that was written. A different fiasco, to be sure, but still a fiasco.",
"I don’t watch cnn. I know trump mentioned them, but I should ignore that. Since I’m sure u watch fox news, you know the people are even a registered news channel because they just lie. \n\nAnyway, they are victims. Murdered by a fascist coward. Like most modern conservatives, terrified by anything and everything",
"How did he get a CCL with mental illness?",
"> wasn’t the other guy also defending himself by pointing his gun at the kid who just killed someone?\n\nNo, because Kyle literally did not fire on a single person who didn't attack him. Literally 10 seconds before, a person runs up to him, sees the AR, and throws their hands up, and Kyle refrains from firing on him. Bicep Boy does literally the exact same thing, except when Kyle lowers his gun, Bicep Boy lunged and attempted to shoot Kyle point blank. THAT is when Kyle blew his arm to pieces.",
"Kyle went to the protest in the hopes of instigating an event where he could find an excuse to shoot protesters in \"self defense\". That's why he illegally acquired a rifle. That's why he went to a town in a state he didn't live in. That's why he wore latex gloves while doing so. (All of his defenders have desperately been trying to distract people from those basic facts.) \n\nIt's the sort of vigilante scenario that far-right chuds jerk themselves off to. They think shooting liberals and protesters is cool. And they know that the chaos of a crowd makes the self-defense argument difficult to disprove in court. They know that they can't be compelled to testify about their own intentions. That's why they do it. And if he's acquitted, it will encourage more of the same.",
"my conclusions on this whole mess are (1) the law probably protects what he did as self-defense and (2) the law probably shouldn't. he showed up to a protest hoping to get a chance to shoot protestors; we should not encourage that behavior. even if it's not murder, it's extremely dangerous and unjustifiable",
"It's relevant to the argument that he was just a good guy trying to do a good thing. \n\nHe was neither.",
"How can you guarantee that? I support the law being applied fairly. Chauvin rightfully was convicted. If the evidence here shows that Rittenhouse acted in self defense, he shouldn’t be convicted.",
"Which 20 second 4chan .webm are you referring to?",
"I literally do not give a shit about your race baiting narratives. The world owes you nothing. Last I checked the cop was convicted. Move on.",
"Kyle was illegally possessing a firearm, but was acting in self defense when he shot they guy. This is certainly an interesting case and I personally think Kyle should be charged with the firearm crime, prosecution may have even been able to get attempted murder, but first degree murder is a bit much imo. there's no way he was ever going to be convicted.",
"what if he's running away and saying that he's going to the police and gets knocked over by multiple people and hit in the head with a skateboard. Is it self defense then?",
"Yeah, been listening to the trial at work. The picture the defense showed was Grosskreutz with his gun seemingly pointing towards Kyle, but this was also as Grosskreutz was being shot. You can see his arm being \"vaporized\" in the same photo. It seems more likely that Kyle reacted to being lunged at. Also it's important to note that Kyle's gun jammed so he couldn't shoot immediately. He was re-racking it while Grosskreutz had his hands up.",
"Rittenhouse had already killed someone by that point, seems like you’re the one with clouded judgment.",
"These are certainly crap experiences to go through, but sometimes the police have to do things to eliminate the possibility of even worse outcomes. Take, for example, the police harassing you at work about posting nudes. Whilst in this instance the person (you) was innocent, what they did is arguably justified for all the times the person isn't.\n\nIf a woman was raped and I'm close to the scene of the crime and I happen to match the description of the perpetrator, I could get arrested. That would be a crap experience for me, but I can't blame the police for arresting me - it's justified by the fact that doing so also reliably catches guilty people too.\n\nThis is just a general statement though, I'm not going to pretend I know the facts of each case, because yes I'm not denying they could have acted without justification.",
"Yes, the pedo has multiple convictions",
"I’m really hopping this guy doesn’t get away from this, he needs to be held accountable for his actions, he should of never been there, creating the problem.",
"How is it different in practice?",
"Not only that, the gun that Rittenhouse had never crossed state borders. It was kept at the place of the friend who owned it.",
"Do you have any proof of anything you just said or are you making this all up in your head?\n\nEDIT: Here's something not made up lol!\n\nNewly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal.",
"Why use the word literally if you are just spouting your own moronic opinion?",
"Americaaaaaa FUCK YEAH! YOU'RE A MOTHER-FUCKING-SHIT-HOLE COUNTRYYYYYY YEAHHHH",
"Protecting businesses, putting out fires, offering medical help.",
"> Leftists (or even liberals) with guns are fundamentally not viewed the same way as conservatives with guns \n\nSo the conservative with the gun is now on trial, and the leftist is playing the 'victim' on the stand, when he was actually the aggressor. If that's what you mean by 'not viewed the same', then I agree.",
"Apology accepted",
">That first victim, who died from 2 shots through his back, after being shot twice in the front causing him to collapse, after literally standing 20 feet from Mr. Rittenhouse with his hands in the air in a surrendered position, that first victim was murdered.\n\nThe first \"victim\" was Rosenbaum. You referenced the first \"victim\" as being 20 feet away surrendering. Grosskreuetz also wasn't 20 feet away. He himself testified that he was about 3 feet away from Rittenhouse when he was shot. He also said that Rittenhouse did not shoot him until he himself (Grosskruetz) pointed his own gun at Rittenhouse. Try again my guy.",
"He never saw Rittenhouse shoot anyone. Rittenhouse also didn't shoot until the gun was pointed at him. Youtube seems to be broken atm but you can hear it straight form the horses mouth if you like.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n[The relevant testimony starts around the 2:15:00 mark.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX1SnM-3GQ0)",
">Imagine you were jay walking or littering while someone tried to kill you.\n\nThis is a totally different scenario. If I break into your house with a gun and you attack me, can I claim self-defense if I killed you? Absolutely not.\n\nWhile not exactly the same, Rittenhouse was somewhere he shouldn't be with a gun that he shouldn't have had. It really comes down to motive - did Kyle come there with the intent to kill people? If yes, then self-defense argument is off the table. Prosecutors will have a hell of a time proving that so self-defense will probably stick.",
"This right here is why we are in court ladies and gentlemen.",
"Ummm Rittenhouse illegally carried too??\n\nWhy are we splitting hairs??",
"Dang dude that's almost as many as the children his first attacker raped",
"yeah this is the correct take, regardless of what crime(s) the current legal system is or isn't prepared to convict people of",
"Does the fact that this guy pulled a gun on him after he had already shot two other people matter?\n\nEdit:a word",
"He also said he only pulled his gun after Rittenhouse started shooting at someone else.",
"What a sociopathic abusive response that gaslights everyone on reality. How’s the boot taste?",
"> And they also should’ve probably focused on the fact that he only pulled out his gun after Rittenhouse had shot someone in front of him.\n\nNot actually true. They have a photo of him grabbing his gun BEFORE he witnesses Rittenhouse fire at anyone. They literally nailed him on this during cross examination yesterday.\n\nThis guy was essentially stalking and planning to kill Kyle based solely on random hearsay from others on the street that Kyle had shot somebody (which bicep boy here did not witness)\n\nEDIT: downvote me all you want but maybe go watch the testimony for yourself and then come back at me",
"Ah, I see. Thanks!",
"A guy, a young kid at that, grabs an arm illegally, crosses state border and goes to a rioting place. Did you expect him to come back with an ice cream cone?",
"The human kind of idiot.",
"The other guys went into a \"contentious situation\" with a handgun and a skateboard as a weapon. So he was just better prepared I guess.",
"But that one who “killed” was because he himself was ABOUT to be killed. You point a gun to use it, Kyles came out when he was about to get shot. If you fear for your life you generally to charge at and point at someone with a rifle. The rioters and arsonists simply thought is was “The Purge” with no consequences. This guy is being honest to avoid prison by lying under oath and probably to avoid his lawsuit for attempted murder. He pointed gun first then that’s murder, shooting after gun is pointed is defense. You have a gun and someone points it at u with a mob coming and screaming “get him”. You gonna just sit and wait to see what happens? Or exercise your constitutional rights? Just how much do you gamble on that? \n\nWe have had riots in the past and the rioters have absolutely beaten people so hard they are forever physically disabled and even killed. He was scared for his life.",
"All criminals that chased him. Great shots and amazing handling of a weapon like that under stress and assault.",
"So IANAL and this is total speculation, but I'd like to try to reason this out.\n\nI believe that in some places if you commit a crime, let's say you tried to break into a home and you realize someone is in the home and you don't want to get into it with this person so you decide to run away. (I also realize that framing this as a home invasion my change some of the applicable laws but again I'm just speculating here)\n\nOnce you're running away then you no longer present a danger to the person who was in the home. They would not have the right to attack/shoot you as you ran off. There may be some interpretation here regarding the homeowners intent, but the point is that once you don't present a danger to your victim there are laws against some levels of retaliation.\n\nSo then it would seem you could argue that if you were running away from committing a crime and showed no signs of continuing to be the aggressor that if someone someone attacked them, they could do what they needed to protect themselves.\n\nAgain IANAL and would be interested in eing corrected/ hearing others thoughts on my reasoning.",
"No Kyle was, Im sorry I wasnt more clear.",
"It's apparent from many of these comments that most of you are woefully misinformed and haven't watched any of the trial.",
"Golly gee I should tool up and go start Punishering bad guys, lots of it will be in self defense and that's okay\n\nI thought being a vigilante was illegal\n\nAs a Kenosha resident I wish any of yall on the internet gave the barest shit over the actual damages, because they were less than the city's police budget and it wouldn't have taken much political pressure on the republican statehouse to get some financial help (fuckers spent four BILLION on an ethereal foxconn plant), and given that the cops did literally nothing but make things worse night after night by corralling people and letting all these armed punisher wannabes through, they're the real reason those 3 people are dead",
"And about to drive away in a car with her children inside",
"What part of my comment needs further proof beyond what I said?\n\nAlso nice stealth edit. You totally didn't have that pre-drafted. Believe it or not, it's actually illegal to murder someone even if they have a prior convictions. He is also one of just one of three people he shot.",
">Ok but, wouldn’t that go to intent if he knowingly went to a protest a state away armed with an AR15?\n\nNo.\n\nFirst off, you should probably go look and see how far away Antioch is away from the state line. I lived in the area. It's maybe a mile away. So no point in making it sound like this was some sort of trek,\n\nSecond, he is an American. He is allowed to cross state lines. He is allowed to have opinions that go across state lines. Anyone trying this line of argument is betraying their desperation.\n\nThird, Rittenhouse is on trial, not Grosskreutz. That means we don't and shouldn't give a fig about what Grosskreutz thought was happening. The prosecution is throwing a Hail Mary here by trying to add it, and it backfired spectacularly. All that matters is whether Rittenhouse thought he was in danger and Grosskreutz gave the defense all they need: Rittenhouse only shot when Grosskreutz advanced on him with a drawn gun pointed at his head. (By the way, that was one gnarly wound).\n\nFourth, \"Does Wild West law apply and whoever wins the gunfight is the one in the right?\" obviously is absurd. It's about self-defense. It's actually spelled out fairly clearly in law, which I will let you look up and is almost certainly quoted around here a dozen times. As Wisconsin does not have \"Stand Your Ground\" laws, you have to try to avoid the confrontation if you can. As Rittenhouse was on the ground and someone approached within a few feet with a drawn gun pointed at his head, I am pretty sure that any reasonable person would agree that he was not going to be able to avoid the confrontation.\n\nNow if Grosskreutz had shot Rittenhouse, \\*then\\* we should be interested in how much danger that Grosskreutz thought he was in. But that is not the case we have before us.",
"I mean they send 17 year old off to war, to kill people. Not sure there really is much a difference between a year or so...\n\nI do agree with you however it seems that there is and are a myriad of poor choices that ended up with a person dead and people injured that could and should of been surely avoided if some people just had a deep breath and a think about and or asked a few friends if it was a good idea before continuing.",
"Can someone point me at TLDR of what this is about? Not american.",
"I agree. That makes Kyle a shitty person. Him being a shitty person has no bearing on whether or not what he did was in self defense.",
"Everybody else who did that didn't end up shooting someone. He wasn't the only guy there with a gun.",
"> He put himself in that situation. Change my mind.\n\nPure victim blaming. He had as much right to be there as anyone else.",
"Don't forget he's also a child rapist!\n\nNewly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal.",
"This is what everyone here seems to just brush past. Intent is a part of the law. If Kyle just happened to be there armed, it's clear self-defense. However, if prosecutors can prove he came there with the intent to start violence, self-defense no longer applies. I doubt they'll be able to meet that bar but considering his online posts and political views, it's not entirely impossible.",
"I think it is damn weird that falsehood about the last encounter is still being stated, when it exist video of the whole thing.",
"Do you mean the guy who shot nobody is being treated as the criminal and the unwanted child with an illegal gun that shot 3 people is going to walk absolutely free, the leftist is clearing being viewed as the *actual* criminal and problem and the conservative is being viewed as an innocent party! Are you dense? The obvious walk - and then celebratory victory lap - this kid is going to take is a perfect example, you stupid bitch. And you know it and you're still here pretending it's somehow the opposite? Fucking mental gymnastics.",
"Not true in the slightest",
"That was proven false. He had two strokes and passed from ‘natural causes’",
"Ummm... he the first guy he killed was unarmed and pretty far away according to police reports and the witnesses at the trial and Noone ever actually pointed a gun at him. The last guy stared to pull his gun after Kyle killed the guy next to him and tried to shoot him but the gun jammed. \n\nWatch the trial.\n\nHe was scared for his life and yet he chose to travel to a different state with a gun he wasn't supposed to have and Interect himself into the situation? You know how many deaths were that night? Just the ones he caused",
"According to Wisconsin law: sometimes.\n\n*\"A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.\"*\n\nhttps://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48",
"Just because he was there he deserved to be beat up ?",
"Ahh okay so you’re saying Kyle was the one saying he’s going to kill people and chasing them down then.\n\nDid you confuse yourself?",
"You can find YouTube compilation videos of the entire event edited into a single cohesive event.",
"He lied about 4 other things and got called out so yeah, probably",
"Life finds a way to balance things out. He's 6 feet under.",
"Of course not, but the majority of calls the police receive are domestic disputes and they just don’t have all the information in that kind of situation, which makes them stupid and dangerous.",
"Considering he lied multiple times already only to go back on what he said in cross examination...",
"You're 100% right!\n\nThis isn't Gaige's trial, however. Doesn't matter, Rittenhouse was always going to get off because there's too many psychos that jack off to the punisher. Shit the fact that he's part of the cult of Maga means he could have just unloaded blindly into the crowd and got off, all it takes is one on the jury.\n\nThe fact that the victims were assholes who were also committing crimes is going to lead people like, well, you, to conclude that Rittenhouse was in the right to play vigilante, when he should definitely go to jail.\n\n*Which does not preclude anyone else going to jail, you can have a shooting where both parties are criminals*",
"I don't know, there is a lot of video of Rittenhouse before the shootings. He pretty much spent the night being generally polite attempting to give first aid, putting out fires, cleaning graffiti etc. Didn't really look like he was picking any fights.",
"No that's false. He had his hand on his gun while running towards Kyle with no idea of what had happened. They went thru this yesterday",
"Not really. 5 people died on January 6th with only a few thousand in attendance. There were 8 deaths at the concert with over 50,000 people.",
"It’s almost like 100% of the problem is that people showed up with guns in the first place.",
"You mean where a crazy cult leader built a fortified concrete bunker where he could impregnate his dozen or so \"wives\" including girls as young as 12? where they were stockpiling weapons including not just firearms but grenades and other explosives? And illegally-obtained lowers for fully automatic rifles? \n\nLove how they're always portrayed as sweet peaceful people minding their own business until the big bad govt's attacked them for no reason at all.....",
"I mean, if you're going to paint the story that Kyle wanted a fight, can't the story be flipped on its head and say Rosenbaum wanted a fight too? Released from the hospital the same day, literally homeless, yelling the N-word at people. Rosenbaum was even further from anywhere to stay than Kyle was. \nWas Rosenbaum looking for a fight? Who do you think was looking for a fight more? The guy running away? The guy who was seen cleaning up earlier in the day with gloves on? The guy who lives half an hour away? The literal child/minor who can easily be overpowered? \n\nWhose story fits the aggressor more?",
"then they should’ve have charged him with that then, but they are going for first degree murder\n\nHe will probably get convicted of unlawful firearm possession and possibly reckless endangerment",
"That’s literally almost every thing going on in the last couple years. Feelings are more important than facts. \n\nWhatever you feel about something isn’t gonna stand up in court and shouldn’t. That’s why we have all these sjw’s and the cancelling stuff.",
"> If I aim a gun at my intruder do they have a right to defend themselves against me and kill me Bc their life is currently in danger even though they broke into my house?\n\nNo, but if they ran away and you chased them and then they shot at you, they'd be able to claim self defense",
"Yeah and neither of *them* shot anyone, surprisingly.",
"You wanted community policing? Kyle delivered. Be careful what you wish for",
"I’ve lived all over. Pretty average for the most part. You shouldn’t trust the cops regardless of your economic standing or skin color however.",
"He got attacked before he ever shot anyone",
"I think a parking ticket is a politicized affair in the US these days.",
"lol ya that most liberal website on the planet pushing white nationalism. this your first day on reddit ?",
"He was perceived as threat by the others in the crowd.\n\nJust like a young mountain lion that wandered into the wrong area.\n\nIt is confusing because it is all as the founders intended. Tally Ho!",
"God that was awful to attempt to read, please learn to properly structure a sentence before responding to me.",
"And according to Kenosha County prosecutors, Rosenbaum engaged Rittenhouse and tried to take his rifle from him.\n\nAn attempted disarming from a threatening person is very solid grounds for self defence. If you're in that situation, it's you or them.\n\nWhen I was in the military (in Ireland), there were 6 rules for discharging your weapon in self defence, but my officers told me that if you wanted to be safe from litigation, there were only really 3: your comrade's life is under threat, your life is under threat, someone is attempting to disarm you. The other 3 were about protecting government property and other less vital things.",
"What if you knew what you were talking about.",
"Would you advice your 17 year old son to go to a place like that with a gun? Doesn't sound too bright now does it?",
"You can’t just go chasing people with a gun and trying to shoot them because you think they shot someone else. That’s the police’s job to handle, not random people. The only time you draw a gun on someone is to defend yourself from a direct and immediate threat to your life. If they’re not shooting and running away, they’re not threatening you, so don’t chase after them.",
"No, not really. Only extremely controversial or particularly heinous cases. \n\nMost murder trials don't get publicity like this",
"I read this, in William Shatner’s voice, from all those, commas.",
"Not a machine gun. \n\nDon't riot and attempt to fuck up people's livelihood and cities if you don't want to have people come defend their businesses against you. \n\nIdk what fucking world people live in where these \"protesters\" were just minding their own business and suddenly were attacked by the evil right wing. \n\nThey fucked around and found out. They created the entire dangerous situation and then surprise Pikachu face when people stood up to them. The entire thing was looting, burning, and riots. Get out of here with that bullshit narrative.",
"Whenever you hear about years long lawsuits over a fence or property lines, it is the same way. One asshole makes a big deal about a fence being too tall, and then his asshole neighbor escalates the situation by suing over something else. If one person had just ignored the other one, it wouldn't have become an issue",
"I mean.. you're just spouting some made up narrative. Rosenbaum is a child rapist (not made up).",
"He was talking about a specific point in time earlier in the night.\n\nIf you watch the video of the actual shooting, you can see someone get shot right in front of him (the guy who hit Rittenhouse with the skateboard)",
"Might be modified by Gaige's previous firearm related misdemeanor though. Not sure how that works.\n\nAnd there's some contention about whether you can carry under 18 in wisconsin. I'm of the opinion that if the laws are unclear or contradictory people shouldn't be convicted on them.",
">Can we never apprehend anybody we think is a criminal?\n\nYou shouldn't apprehend anybody you don't **know** is a criminal unless you're a police officer.",
"The aggressor is the one that is at fault. Hard stop. In this case the aggressor is the guy that admitted on the stand that after KR said he was headed to the cops, he pointed his gun at him with intent to cause violence. It isn't wild west laws, it is common sense. \n\nStop with he across state lines bullshit. It doesn't matter. It was 15 minutes away from his house, where his father lived, and in a community he worked in. It was his community, not some random place.",
"Ahh, I see, now we are getting to the bottom of it!\n\nThis is about your personal *feelings*, not about the actual law as it is written or applied.",
"Yeah, okay so it is only if they go to another town, dress like they want it or/and looking for a hook-up, it is their own fault? I see...",
"How am I racist? Or a trumper? You must be a troll because I really don’t think anyone could be as retarded as you’ve displayed yourself to be unironically",
"Are we all seeing the same evidence?",
"The fact remains that there were riots. I also think it was a poor decision to be out there armed, it's asking for trouble, but at some point you have to stop hiding in your houses and draw a line in the sand.",
"Rosenbaum had threatened to kill him and was chasing him, got close enough to put hands on the gun. Huber or skateboard guy tried to smash Kyle's head in with a skateboard as he was trying to walk to surrender to police after shooting Rosenbaum in self defence. Even Grosskreutz admitted that Kyle was in danger of head trauma from Huber. All 3 are justified shootings, Kyle should walk",
"I've \"been\" completely wrong about what? Lol I've never commented on this case before now except to say that this specific video is just one piece of evidence in an ongoing trial.\n\nWhat am I wrong about?",
"I wasn’t talking about the Rosenbaum shooting.\n\nI was talking about the shooting of the guy who hit Kyle with a skateboard that happened right in front of him",
"That was last week.\n\nWitnesses testified that Rosen said \"fuck you\" and lunged to grab Kyles gun when he was shot and another witness said Rosen had threatened to kill any member of Kyles group if he catches them.\n\nThe 2nd guy was shot seconds apart from Gaige and was on video trying to bash Rittenhouse's skull in with a skateboard.",
"Had Rittenhouse let Rosenbaum disarm him, Rosenbaum would have been the one to kill Rittenhouse. And since Rosenbaum was the aggressor, a murder charge would have been far more likely.\n\nHowever, the fact that he had a weapon was insane. In fact, had he not brought one, everyone involved would likely still be alive. The people he killed tried to disarm him which is a pretty clear sign that they were trying to use his weapon against him. But had he not brought the weapon, that wouldn't have been a threat. He likely would have gotten his ass beaten, but all parties would probably still be alive.\n\nTo be clear, that's just my neutral take on things. All of the people involved seem like nut cases to me.",
"You're really in a bubble if you think reddit pushes white nationalist ideas at all",
"Bahahahaha.... Ya, just liberals on here, not a ton of subs that are literal Nazi safe spaces. This your first day on earth?",
"I'm not here to defend the events of January 6th, bu you are incorrect. A police officer was not beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. \n\n[https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/apr/20/update-capitol-police-officer-sicknick-died-natura/](https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/apr/20/update-capitol-police-officer-sicknick-died-natura/)\n\nI also disagree with the original comment that you replied to that characterizes the death of Babbit as an \"execution\" I don't think the officer was wrong for use deadly force in that situation.",
"That’s done with literally everything.",
"I just want to be clear: you don't believe in unjust laws. Laws are absolute morality? It's wrong to think a law is poor or immoral? Can I just tag that on you, you agree to all that?",
"What did the other victims say?",
"I’m a socialist and I honestly believe liberals are worse than conservatives. They’re mad that the witness told the truth and want Kyle either dead or locked up for life for what they know is a justified shooting. They’re literally fascists just with different cultural values",
"While that’s probably true, the body language has to look terrible to the jury.",
"Nah lock the little bastard up",
"Lyle.",
"Literally full of white nationalist subreddits lmao",
"Yeah fell off track there a little, a lot of other people are commenting to me as well over their misperceptions. But point Im trying to make, Rosenbaum attempted to physically harm Kyle and judging by his other documented actions that night and threats he said, I think its fair that Kyle feared for his life when Rosenbaum went after him.",
"I’d like to point out that he did not at first tell the truth and that the defense had to confront him over and over with evidence conflicting with his initial responses.",
"No, not usually. But the media, our fourth branch of government, was desperate to grab the story of a white supremacist going on a murder rampage at a [mostly peaceful](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/035/101/CNN_Mostly_Peaceful_Protests_Banner.jpg) BLM protest. The actual story is much more complicated, and it's looking more and more likely that this will be ruled as self-defense, but the media spent weeks pushing that narrative after it happened.\n\nAs a result, you now have a cadre of people who believes Rittenhouse has a shrine to Hitler and a closet full of Klan suits, and a series of reactions and exasperations bouncing back and forth on all sides.\n\n[The media isn't shy about these divisive tactics.](https://i.imgur.com/DC5eoiA.jpg)",
"do you know what large majority means? obviously there’s gonna be some nationalist subs. they’re not PUSHED by reddit though, which is what you claimed. in fact they’re always eventually banned or quarantined or whatever the fuck. this your first day on parroting things you saw in a tiktok?",
"Witnesses testified that Rosen said \"fuck you\" and lunged to grab Kyles gun when he was shot and another witness said Rosen had threatened to kill any member of Kyles group if he catches them.\n\nThe 2nd guy was shot seconds apart from Gaige and was on video trying to bash Rittenhouse's skull in with a skateboard.",
"I now see, I could have put in So, Many, More, Commas!",
"Rosenbaum was 20 feet away when shot multiple times. Including twice in the back.",
"Is it not true that KR illegally acquired a gun? Went to the protest in a town/state he didn't live in? Wore latex gloves with the gun?\n\nWhy would someone do that if they didn't intend to shoot anyone? A question that KR stans have done everything to avoid answering.",
"? What are you talking about? What statute or part of the law pertinent to this case do you think is made by conservative nutjobs?",
"Rittenhouse ran away. He was chased down. It in multiple videos.",
"What the fuck are your saying??\n\nYour fallacies are reaching.\n\nI'm not victim blaming I'm saying: KR went there for violence.",
"I watch NBC, ABC, Fox, Etc. Just not CNN. You need to watch it all as you have two highly politicized sides who own the news and then take hear both sides, THEN remove emotion and then come to your own conclusion. We don’t get real news today, u get narratives, CNN just takes it to an entirely new level.\n\nJudge rules can’t call em victims, u can by all means, but in this case u can wish all u want, your opinion will have zero impact. But go nuts as is ur right.",
"This is certainly a waste of money, people need to learn to stop larping.",
"I want to be clear too: We are not talking about an unjust law here, we are talking about your *feelings* and how you *feel* the law is unjustly applied. Those are entirely seperate things.",
"Kyle wasn't an active shooter, he was walking away towards the police to surrender after only shooting a man that tried to kill him. Rosenbaum said he'd kill Kyle and then chased him. That's self defence",
"Couldn't use the word victims per the judge. And nothing because they're dead.",
"it really isn't though; using someone's last name preserves at least a modicum of distance",
"I think this is just a problem the law doesn't accurately address. The crowd in general had no way of knowing he wasn't an active shooter and some of these people may have thought they were playing hero. If he was actually an active shooter the 2 people after the initial shooting would be considered heros. \n\nRittenhouse shouldn't have been there and none of this would have happened but under the letter of the law he was acting in self defense. Letter of the law doesn't mean he isn't an asshole though.",
"A state away is a pointed way of saying he drove 15 minutes. \n\nThe last guy chased him down and pointed his gun at him. You can't chase someone and both of you claim self defense",
"No matter who you think was an aggressor or who was a victim I think this is a pretty good reason why allowing open carry of weapons, especially in protest or \"vigilante\" roles, is a dangerous precedent.\n\nIt just creates an implied threat that can turn deadly in the blink of an eye. Even if you don't intend to be threatening, *weapons* are fucking threatening.",
"Kid shows up to an active riot to help protect his community and gets threatened, then assaulted and responds by defending himself. All on video confirming self defence. He will walk free of all charges. The people he shot were all past criminals and one of them was a child rapist.",
"That's not what todays drone footage showed",
"Agreed, but if they move for mistrial, he could be retried. If they continue and jury acquits him, he can never be retried.",
"What if I could with 90 percent certainty tell you where you stand politically just by your need to celebrate this shitter as a hero?",
"And you are crazy if you’re sincere. Letting little vigilantes run around playing video games with real bullets is being a patriot?",
"I'm not saying Kyle is a good or smart person. I just think it's bit whack to disregard the mob like Kyle's actions were all in a vacuum.\n\nNo one should have been there, everyone involved was a dick, Gaige is lucky he wasnt killed, and Kyle is lucky the cops weren't itching to shoot.",
"To VERY ROUGHLY sum up parts of the trial earlier. They already went through how the first person shot previously made threats to Rittenhouse and physically assaulted and tried to take his weapon prior to Rittenhouse shooting. \n\nIt seems like Rittenhouse made an effort to get away from the situation with the others shot chasing after him.\n\nThe key instance is the approach. If Rittenhouse stood in once place and kept firing or throwing threats it’s likely his self-defense wouldn’t be accepted. But he actively tried to remove and de-escalate. \n\nOf course the trial isn’t done yet so we don’t know what the rest of his charges will be. But this doesn’t look good for the prosecutors.",
"If I broke into your house with a gun and you attack me, is it self-defense if I kill you? Rittenhouse was somewhere he shouldn't be with a gun that he shouldn't have had. All evidence points to him having taken several premeditated steps with the intent of killing protesters. If prosecutors can prove that, self-defense doesn't apply. If they can't prove it, self-defense sticks. As simple as that.",
"We can look at facts and figures that show the law is unequally applied but you people seem against that, too.",
"So according to you, he would have died anyway. His horrific beating, which was filmed, had nothing to do with it. \n\nThat some serious delusional thinking.",
"No, considering gaige chased after Kyle, attempted to surrender and then when Kyle lowered his gun, reached for his own handgun and that's when he got shot. He was forced to admit this in court yesterday that Kyle only shot him once he pointed a gun at Kyle. That's self defence.",
"I don't think his intention was to kill. I think that being 17 and impressionable, he saw it as some sort of twisted duty to protect his country.\n\nThe evidence clearly shows that he used his weapon in self defence only.\n\nHowever, the fact that he had a weapon was insane. In fact, had he not brought one, everyone involved would likely still be alive. The people he killed tried to disarm him which is a pretty clear sign that they were trying to use his weapon against him. But had he not brought the weapon, that wouldn't have been a threat. He likely would have gotten his ass beaten, but all parties would probably still be alive.",
"Of course, but if Rittenhouse was also defending himself against them then that was also self-defense. I haven't paid any attention to this case so I don't know what heis lawyers are arguing but if I recall from the video, you clearly see a gunshot in the distance then Rittenhouse running away being chased and only then he turns and shoots the two guys.",
"Shooting people",
"No way to stop this, says only country where this happens",
"The only dangerous situation that got created was when Kyle brought his dad's gun out to try and play action movie hero, and then murdered people with it. \n\n\nThen all the losers on the internet rush to his defense because they all see themselves as lone wolf action movie heros too.",
"Lol. U dk realize fox is a thousands times worse than cnn. Like fox is t news. Legally it isn’t news lol. \n\nU have already shown right there that critical thinking and facts are not things you care about. \n\nAll yes and the “there is no news” bullshit.\n\nFucking pathetic",
"Vigilante? He literally defended himself from multiple assailants who threatened him earlier in the night. Who's crazy here? Me? Or you, shedding tears for a convicted child rapist.",
"> you stupid bitch. \n\nWhat a good way to signal low IQ. Good job on that. Saves people time on reading any other brain farts of yours after that.",
"Especially the dead ones that don’t to give their side of this. /s",
"I think you're mixing up response time and utility on arrival. These are two totally different things and I was talking about the latter.\n\nBut to answer your question, I live in London UK. Both times we've had to call the police this year they've been exceptionally quick - like minutes. First was a domestic violence case across the road from us and second was where a crazy guy stripped naked in the middle of my local park and started harrasing two women having a picnic. They handled both cases like true proffessionals (but that doesn't make the news).",
"That’s what he’s talking about. The prosecutor even corrects the witness. Prosecutor states that Gaige had his gun in his hand before Kyle ever fired a shot at Huber.",
"> The idea that this guy had any less reason to defend himself is also nonsense.\n\nThis idea is not brought out enough, and this case is a perfect example. The Rittenhouse defenders seem oddly immune to the idea that others had a right to defend themselves... *from him*.\n\nIf you go looking for trouble, you can't claim 'self defense' if others react accordingly to defend themselves... from you..",
"My point is that both parties can be seen as aggressive and defensive in the entire event while changing immediate roles at various instances. They are all afraid for their lives and simultaneously deadly threats to eachother. To make matters worse only survivors of the event can be declared justified and set free, and anyone dead cannot.",
"For someone looking to shoot someone, he showed EXTREME restraint, and somehow only pulled the trigger when he was in immediate danger. Doesnt really jive with your mostly imagined narrative.",
"I don’t cheer war in the streets. He’ll get off, but not because he didn’t go there to kill people.",
"Link to the footage?",
"Suicidal and mentally unstable person chases after an armed teenager that is willfully ignoring a curfew order and gets shot. I'm no detective but it seems like he just wanted death by armed militia?",
"You say “they’re not trained” but given the evidence we have it would appear Rittenhouse is *very* well-trained. I don’t disagree with the point you’re making but this is a bad example to support that. Kyle showed an INSANE amount of precision, control, and restraint. He never once even aimed his rifle at anyone who wasn’t obviously an immediate threat. Hell, I’m a 24 year old gun owner—family has had them my whole life—and I would 100% trust Kyle with a gun before myself. Dude showed some incredibly respectable behavior with regard to actually using his firearm. Obviously we all know it was stupid of him to be there, but we could use the same argument for the other parties involved.",
"Read that bit of law again.\n\nIf Kyle was carrying an SBR then it would be a problem.\n\nThe way that law is written is vague AF.",
"That's bullshit. Kyle shot the pedo in self defence and was walking away to surrender to the cops, with the gun lowered. These losers chased Kyle and engaged him. He defended himself a second time from their fresh assault",
"Well I think that's two different things. Can you self-defend while committing a crime vs can you self-defend when you've orchestrated a situation where people will attack you. \n\nAnd it's very unlikely. Kyle is seen helping out, cleaning, even texted that he would be able to offer protection to a company. Simply having a gun and being at a riot isn't anywhere near enough to suggest he wanted to kill anyone.",
"Is the jury supposed to factor in reactions to evidence or the evidence itself?",
"He didn't cross state lines with an illegally obtained firearm. That's important information.\n\nHe was given the firearm by an adult while in the state. The firearm was purchased, legally, by an adult named Dominick Black. And it was given to Rittenhouse after he arrived in the state. \n\nKyle Rittenhouse is likely going to have the charges of illegal possession of a firearm dropped because what actually happened doesn't line up with the law. The Judge has already heard the request and hasn't denied those charges being dropped. \n\nTechnically, Rittenhouse wasn't in possession of an illegally obtained firearm, by letter of the law. However, Dominick Black may be charged with illegally providing a firearm to a minor, which carries a sentence up to 25 years.",
"I don't care what people like you think",
"It doesn't negate it, I'm saying take responsibility for it. \nWhy are we surprised that he had to defend himself: a man with a rifle? Self defense in this case is extraneous.\n\nOf course he defended himself from the violence *he* incited. \n\nGrow up. People.",
"it's like bringing a gun to a gunfight.",
"The law was applied as per state laws in the George Zimmerman case, which was a different scenario, with very different aggravating factors. Not sure what you are hoping to \"prove\" there by bringing it up.",
"It does, but it is always done. I see in in tons of shit, especially Reddit, where at first I’m like, “who?”",
"Kyles situation is much closer to having to defend yourself while jaywalking than breaking into a house",
"> If the courts don't take care of him somebody else will 100%\n\nWould that somebody be ~~rioters~~ peaceful protesters engaging him in meaningful dialogue? Or are you encouraging someone to kill him, assumingly because he was not found guilty?",
">The circumstances do not matter, that fact it was during a riot or that he was too young to have a rifle is also irrelevant.\n\nNot true, intent matters. If prosecutors could prove Rittenhouse came there with the intent to shoot protestors, self-defense doesn't apply. They probably can't prove that though so my bet is that self-defense will stick.",
"Because there have been several years of conditioning trying to make right wing synonymous with \"dumb, evil, and wrong;\" so now any questioning of official narratives pushed by the corporate press is labeled as \"right wing.\"",
"Gonna be interesting when people go to MAGA rallies looking for a fight and then claim self defense.",
"Whether or not it was really doesn't matter. Self defense laws don't distinguish between legal or illegal weapons when fighting for your life. Everything is fair game, as it should be. If he is convicted of purchasing it illegally it still doesn't have much bearing on the murder charge anyways.",
"You know what they say. You don't flash a gun unless you intend to use it. This is kind of why.",
"He could have stayed home and his “self” wouldn’t have been threatened. See how that works?",
"The people who got shot came from further away. Kyle is a kenosha local. He lives 20 minutes away, and works there, has friends and family there. It's his community. The people shot came from further away to riot. Your argument is bullshit",
"Well he had just shot and killed someone.",
"> I don't care what people like you think\n\nYou don't even care if you think.",
"Edited my comment.\n\nHe had the gun in hand because he heard Kyle had shot Rittenhouse and was fleeing the scene gun in hand.\n\nAnd only *pointed* it at him when he had shot Huber",
"KR knew that in a crowd of hundreds of people, especially in a generally contentious political setting, there'd be at least one person who would react negatively at the site of a kid with an AR-15. That's the excuse he was looking for.\n\n>The literal child/minor who can easily be overpowered? \n\nLol you're really gonna try to gaslight his AR-15 out of existence.",
"Or bringing a gun to a peaceful protest\n\nEdit: The people down voting me have been super fuckin racist, and cover it by claiming to care more about buildings than vulnerable Americans. So I don't feel too bad about it",
"Reaching further than Jakob Blake with that one.",
"Yes. When this case first came out I made sure to read the state’s laws. You lose your right to self defense by putting yourself in that situation, but you can regain your right by actively retreating/fleeing the situation.",
"Get real, Grosskreuz was part of a crowd that was chasing Rittenhouse and *literally trying to lynch him while he was running towards police*. And when the shot that hit his arm was fired, Rittenhouse was on the ground after having to defend himself against multiple attackers, when Grosskreutz pointed the gun at him. To say that they were on equal grounds for self defense is ridiculous.",
"You can drink with parental supervision in his state. It's in the article.",
"They’re using the South Park strategy of yelling “it’s coming right for us!” As an appropriate response.",
">He's not innocent.\n\nYou're allowed to walk through bad neighborhoods. If someone is attacked while walking through a bad neighborhood they are not at fault. If they defend themselves they are not at fault. If they brought tools to defend themselves they are not at fault.\n\nYou could argue the decision to go there was unwise, but there isn't any guilt from it. Certainly in a pure personal benefit vs risk sense the decision was unwise. But is it unwise to stand up and try to prevent it when you think something wrong is happening? Not so clear. If nobody ever stands up then the people who will happily hurt others to help themselves will never have a reason not to do so.",
"Do you support grosskreutz being charged with illegally carrying a concealed weapon, lying to police in his statement, filing false suits against the state and trying to murder Kyle? Because he did all of that",
"You shouldn't get the protections of self-defense if you travel to the violence. There are variations of that in the law, but it needs to be stronger.",
"You are wrong.",
"Good to know you cant even trust Wikipedia.",
"He was asking for it you say?",
"Depends who starts it.",
"It doesn’t matter. He had the right to be there just like anyone else. Saying “he put himself in that situation” is literal victim blaming. It’s the same as saying a rape victim shouldn’t have been hanging around shady people.",
"If he hadn’t gone there, with a gun, he wouldn’t have killed anyone. The police were there to enforce what ever order they chose.",
"Exactly, juries have never let a guilty person go based on their own morals.",
"Poor Kyle, always the wrong place at the wrong time. \n\n(His family is there; I think ~~his~~ the state allows that.)",
"Calling an AR-15 a machine gun is a glaring sign that you don't know what you're talking about.",
"Wrong on all counts.",
"Gaige Paul Grosskreutz ‐ Criminal History\r \n\\# Date Police Agency Nature As Indicated in Police Reports\r \n1 11/17/2010 West Allis Police Simple Assault/Domestic Violence\r \nAlleged to Have Slapped Grandmother and Smashed Lamp\r \n2 5/27/2012 New Berlin Police Burlary of Home/CriminalTresspass to Dwelling/Disorderly Conduct\r \nAlleged to Have Entered Home and Stole Video Game Equipment and Broke the Lights with\r \n3 5/27/2013 West Allis Police Criminal Damage to Property\r \nAlleged to Have Smased Window of House Where Girlfried Was and Threatened Her\r \n4 5/9/2015 Greenfield Police DUI/Posession of Firearm by Felon/Posession Firearm While Intoxicated\r \nEndangering Safety by Use of Dangerous Weapon/Warrants\r \nBlew .159 while driving/Possessed Loaded Firearm While Intoxicated and Being a Felon\r \n5 11/4/2019 Ashland Police Loud Noise/Obedience to Officers\r \nLoud Music and Refused to Provide Police With ID\r \n6 8/16/2020 West Allis Police Prowling\r \nVideotaping Personal Police Officer Vehicles in PD Parking Lot\r \nWisconsin Department of Justice Background Check for conviction INFO",
"Too many",
"This case is a mess and, honestly, I feel like reality in this case has become partisan. I really hope actual justice, whatever it should be, is served in this case.",
"There are witnesses who state that [\"Rosenbaum, who appeared on video to be unarmed, had tried to grab the gun before he was fatally shot\".](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-kyle-rittenhouse-extradition-prosecutors-response-20201016-sg77lq53ajfgjefs2p34v5rtiu-story.html)",
"He said that he pointed his gun when he saw kyle reracking to load another shot cause he just shot huber. If kyle thought he was a threat then why didnt he tell gaige to backoff when gaige was running next to him and asked what happened with the shooting?",
"That’s what was released per the medical examiner. I did not perform the autopsy nor have a say in his cause of death.\n\nMaybe instead of attacking me, do your own research instead of spreading misinformation",
"https://twitter.com/Andrew_Havranek/status/1458096191711875073?t=d4mV1uTwJFOBYptXoOkhgg&s=19",
"So if an entire crowd of people say, 'that guy shot somebody.' I should just go on with my life and hope that he doesn't shoot anybody in the mean time? \n\nThat's an incredibly naive statement.\n\n If someone's running past me and a lady says 'He's got my purse.' I just ignore that? We just let him take the purse? After all I don't KNOW he took her purse. \n\nOr if I'm in an active shooter situation and someone comes around the corner with a gun I don't grab him? I mean I PERSONALLY didn't see him shoot anybody. I don't KNOW. If he's a 'good guy' with a gun and he shoots me cause he's scared he gets let off the hook and I die? If it's a shooter he kills me cause I did nothing and I die. \n\nAre you starting to see how a certainty of knowledge as a legal basis for apprehension starts becoming really weak? I don't think you really buy your own argument. There's plenty of situations where you probably think you should apprehend someone. But the problem with that case by case basis is it's not legally standard. And it has to be legally standard. \n\nI believe we should possess the ability as a society to apprehend people we believe could do harm. Note that I said apprehend and not 'beat up or harm.' If that crowd had caught Kyle and beat him up then he would probably be hurting yeah. But THOSE people would be on the hook for that. At the end of the day this is really messy but your fear doesn't trump society's ability to apprehend criminals safely, policemen or no.",
"There were a lot of people with guns at the riot (3 guns involved in just the half dozen people mentioned in this case). \n\nBeing at a riot has nothing to do with self defense. Having a gun or not has nothing to do with self defense. The point is that did he defend himself from potential mortal danger within the context of the law (such as not instigating it).",
"the motive was the fact the guy said he was going to kill kyle and then attacked him. Maybe you should look up the definition of murder.",
"That's why you don't get involved if you're not sure. You just leave.",
"> he incited\n\nExcept that every witness has admitted so far that he didn't incite anything.\n\nUnless you think that simply being in possession of a firearm is inciting, in which case, that's an asinine take.",
"Lol they were\"literally trying to lynch him?\" Sit down, you'll hurt yourself.",
">We know from video evidence and testimonial that Rittenhouse had a history of violence and had fantasies of shooting protestors like he did\n\nSo we're just making stuff up now? Neat. Thankfully I'm glad those aliens from Mars in the UFOs overhead who were mind controlling the arsonists were scared off by Rittenhouse's telepathic powers, as shown in the videos we saw.",
"They all get banned. I regularly get banned for posting center right comments in subs. There are no white nationalist subs, none that stay up once they get the mods attention. Show me otherwise",
"are people ignoring the copious amounts of video evidence publicly available with just a simple google search?\n\npretty sure the first 2 guys he shot had 2 arms, and the 3rd one now has 1 arm so, they were definitely armed",
"I think people are annoyed by the title. The prosecutor expected him to say this so they’re not facepalming.",
"Oh man now you're throwing out insults. I guess everything you've said is irrelevant. Got em.",
"Please see my comment for the other guy. It explains my position on the matter. In short I think that position is wrong.\n\nAlso, leaving isn't always an immediate option and it's naive to think so.",
"Way to back up your statement, coward.",
"Well, it doesn’t matter what *Rosenbaum* thought thankfully. He was clearly not doing that in an attempt to be a hero. Witnesses testified that rosenbaum told Rittenhouse and his group that if he catches any of them alone he is going to kill them. There’s not really a grey area with that, especially after going out of his way to chase Kyle and lunging for his gun.",
"him trying to protect stores from rioters is not the same thing as breaking into your home. If anything those rioters would be the equivalent of the home invaders and kyle the equivalent of like neighborhood watch",
"You don't have to wait for someone to grab your gun or hit you before it's self-defense. Video clearly shows him chasing with intent to do harm",
"Only after they attacked him",
"If the rioters were not there they wouldn't have been killed either.",
"Identity fallacy. When did I ever say I wasn't talking about the US?",
"that's an incredibly interesting take.",
"Shooting people who were attacking him. He was justified in responding with deadly force",
"But where he went wasn't being described as a \"bad neighborhood\" it was described as a place where a riot was being staged. You can call taking up arms to go there as bravery and being within your rights, I would call it negligence because Kyle is a minor with no relevant training. \n\nWe're both right. Legally he is in the clear. But ethically and morally i don't believe him to be innocent.",
"Yeah and Gaige has his gun out much earlier than that moment; i.e. he had his gun in his hand before he saw someone get shot in front of his eyes. Stop spreading misinformation about an ongoing trial.",
"No his state does not. Illinois has one of the strictest underage drinking laws in the country. Keep pushing your narrative though.",
"Well what Grosskreutz THOUGHT is immaterial. He pointed his gun at Kyle and that's when he got shot. Kyle did tell him to back off by pointing his gun at him the first time Grosskreutz got close and started to draw a weapon. When he backed off and started to put the gun away, Kyle lowered his weapon. So he did exactly what you asked without using words, this all happened within seconds. Kyle will walk",
"At your home. Not at a bar.",
"Just saying if he had a history of violence, had a dream of shooting/ killing protesters doesnt that spell intent and he should be given the murder charge? Or at least manslaughter?",
"Right, kyle was running towards cops. Scuffle ensues, shots fired blah blah blah. Don’t bring a skateboard to a gunfight and if You point a gun at a guy with a gun, he’s gonna shoot.",
"*You people*",
"how is it murder?",
"They also claim there that the guy who had the skateboard was wrestling with him trying to take the gun when he was killed. Which is on video as not even remotely true. I'll listen to the multiple other witnesses and police that say Rosenbaum was not a threat. \n\nhttps://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-wisconsin-shootings-homicide-kenosha-376152e7942b06122dcf899f779b0057",
"Yes go look at burglars who get massive settlement payouts. Pretty insane",
"A man is pointing a gun at you. You have a gun and are pointing it at him. Do you back down?",
"Actually Gaige pointed the gun at him after feigning surrender and then advancing on a downed Rittenhouse",
"I'm sure the trigger happy punk with a gun wasn't making it any safer.",
"How are you fearing for your life running toward someone with a rifle?",
"But thats what the defense is claiming, that he was being chased and they tried to take his gun, but theres no evidence to this and the forensics guy said there was no injuries consistent with him grabbing the gun, which the defense said happened. Im sure kyle can explain himself on the stand",
"Yeah, how stupid! Just let the town burn down....stupid defenders of property!!!",
"Rosenbaum was the first person, he hadn’t shot or killed anyone at that point.",
"The defense impeached his testimony by bringing in his civil lawsuit against the city of Kenosha. Grosskreutz has 10 million reasons to lie.",
"Wow, none of you guys get it at all, like not even close. You don't even understand the fundamental subjectivity of not only the parties involved, but the third party perspective, of self defense, which is core to all of the laws and if you actually cared enough to look into them. \n\nThere is no sane way to agree with the killing of Martin, legal or otherwise. It was a miscarriage of justice and a bigger miscarriage of morality. Truly a stain on our collective souls and the fact that people who don't think so are going around deciding who lives and dies is a tragedy of humanity.",
"Considering that NPR published an article stating that Grosskreutz had his arms raised when Kyle shot him, yes. They wanted him to lie. \n\nIn reality he had his gun pointed at Kyle and it’s on video. It’s such a big deal that he was honest about the moment *because* our media has *not* been honest about that moment.",
"He (Kyle) was defending himself when he shot the dude who hit him with a skateboard......Gage should not have engaged, he did and he got shot. He was only shot as he was a threat pointing his gun, that is when Kyle shot him. Master class by the defense, the kid is gonna walk.",
"Yes, Kyle should walk",
"The rioters aren’t on trial.",
"Can you explain why self defense in the only thing he is on trial for? I have not been following this case at all but in general the consensus I’ve seen is he broke a bunch of laws and then acted in self defense.",
"Seems like self defense by that admission alone",
"You are confused about the function of guns vs fire extinguishers, I think.",
"The US is definitely not the only country this happens in.",
"A large group of people was chasing him, people were shouting \"beat his ass\", and as soon as he tripped multiple people attacked him, one trying to hit his head with a skateboard. What do you think they were trying to do?",
"still wouldn't change that you don't know what you're talking about",
"and what would you expect to happen then? the guy that just shot someone else who was pointing a gun at him is suddenly gonna decide to surrender to you, another stranger who is also pointing a gun at him?",
"Water-brained conservatives, \"libertarians,\" and boot-licking good ol boys of all varieties, colors, creeds.",
"Edited my original comment",
"Yeah. He “found himself” in a dangerous situation. We’re done, now.",
"Thanks. It does look like self defense.",
"I got a feeling that Grosskreutz changed his story at the last minute while on the stand. Prosecution should not be surprised by THEIR OWN WITNESS' TESTIMONY lmao\n\nAnd this witness already got caught in a lie beforehand about how the events unfolded",
"Whether the gun was brought illegally is still being debated in court. It's not Kyle's fault a mentally unstable N word yelling serial pedophile tried to kill him",
"LOL, \"trigger discipline\"? gtfo.",
"Ok the article says he has no affiliations with those groups at all. And he shot white dudes",
"If you advance on someone with the intent of drawing a weapon you are chasing them.",
"After Huber was shot in front of him",
"2 guys with guns both thought they were the good guys with a gun trying to stop the other, but only one of them previously shot two people. Why is what gaige thought immaterial but kyles same claim isnt? Did he point the gun at kyle before or after kyle shot huber?",
"He wouldn't be on trial if the rioters didn't show up. Do I need to spell it out for you. I'm using your exact logic.",
"Stop watching the news it's rotting your brain. Why shouldn't he be there but the same doesn't go for the rioters who attacked him?",
"(he was an active shooter)\n\nSure seems like they were trying to get the gun and not let him run away.",
"> charged with illegally carrying a concealed weapon\n\nIf he his CCW license was expired at the time and it was illegal to carry his gun under that circumstance. Yes. Why wouldn't I.\n\n> lying to police in his statement\n\nYes.\n\n> filing false suits against the state\n\nWhat was false in that suit, I haven't read them but isn't that more glaring omission of details? I'm not familiar on this, so you can help me here.\n\n> trying to murder Kyle\n\nDefinitely not, there's no strong evidence of that. He could've been trying to detain Rittenhouse. And it's possible he could've shot Rittenhouse because he perceived him as an active threat to the public because he just killed two people, and he may have not been arrested. Here is an instance where [police shot and killed a security guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jemel_Roberson) after he subdued a gunman, and no charges were filed because the officer reasonably perceived him as a threat. Not that I agree with it, but that's how things are.",
"Do you have that source? Not arguing just actually want to check it out",
"The answer is 'don't attempt to apprehend an active shooter, stay down and under cover' because in almost every situation, that's more likely to minimize people getting hurt.\n\nThere are numerous examples of 'good guys with guns' (no, really) getting shot by law enforcement because there is no red HUD arrow over bad people's heads in real life - if you expect an active shooter you're not going to bother with a call and response when you see a gun.",
"**[Shooting of Jemel Roberson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jemel_Roberson)** \n \n >On November 11, 2018, Jemel Roberson, a 26-year-old African American security guard for Manny's Blue Room Bar in Robbins, Illinois, was fatally shot by Ian Covey, a white Midlothian police officer responding to a call of shots fired at the bar. Roberson was working for the bar as a security guard when four people were non-fatally shot by a gunman. After Roberson subdued and pinned the shooter to the ground, he was shot by a Midlothian police officer arriving at the scene. Covey was placed on paid administrative leave while the shooting was investigated.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"> town/state he didn't live in?\n\nThis is such a disingenuous thing to say, it's absurd.\n\nHe lives 20 minutes away from Kenosha, the fact that he \"crossed a state border\" to get there is irrelevant. It's not illegal.\n\nAlso, GG lived over 5 times further away from Kenosha than Rittenhouse did, and was also illegally carrying a weapon. So he intended to shoot someone too, yeah?",
"Why? By being honest?",
"He had already shot someone to death at this point",
"I said plausible outcomes. Not every person who goes to a war gets killed or injured. But don’t say it was out of norm when they do.",
"Lmfao showing bias much? The right wing wipes their ass with law and order. The only reason you say anything about it is to create outgroups. Laws for thee not for me. Speak for yourself. Matt Gaetz. Donald Trump. Roger Stone. Steve Bannon. All people who deserve prison cells. What about Paul Gosar now?\n\nDo you think if Kyle Rittenhouse was a black leftist he would be getting the same treatment he has or is right now? I'll answer that for you. No he wouldn't.\n\nWhy is Matt Gaetz still a free man? Wouldn't the party of law and order be chomping at the bit to put someone involved in the sexual trafficking of minors in prison? Nope. Remember Roy Moore? Remember Brett Kavanaugh? There's plenty of shit in your party to go around. There's plenty of shit in my party to go around. The difference is I'm willing to call it out instead of justification of it.",
"Lmfao, property>human life obviously. Fucking capitalist brain rot.",
"?",
"The guy with a skateboard only hit Rittenhouse because he was shooting at the guy who jump kicked Rittenhouse.\n\nAnd that guy only kicked Rittenhouse because Rittenhouse was pointing his gun at an unarmed person nearby.\n\nThey attacked Rittenhouse to get him to stop pointing his gun/stop shooting",
"I'm no lawyer but isn't there a term for creating a situation in which you kill someone in self-defense? I believe I saw it brought up with that one guy who shot someone after causing a fight with someone parked in a handicapped spot.",
"There were plenty of others there for says before that and other protests around the country who carried ar-15 or other rifles to protect their property. They have every right to be there as the protesters do",
"YOU brought up random shit about George Floyd, dickwad. Who isn't moving on? You agree the cop was at fault then why bring up shit about his past?\n\nYou're still proving OP's point. You're searching for your OWN narrative to confirm that George Floyd was a shithead.\n\nI don't give a damn that George Floyd was a shithead, he didn't deserve to fucking die for what he did in the moment. And you don't give a damn about that because at your very core, you have 0 sense of compassion for anyone that isn't yourself. In your head, if someone does something bad they immediately deserve no mercy. You've completely dehumanized someone because of some bad shit they did. You did the same shit with the other guy that died. Boo-fucking-hoo he's a pedophile so yep he definitely deserved to die at that exact moment. He's no longer human.\n\nIt's only black and white to you. No nuance with you people. Just trashy words",
"When you have a legal right-wing militias marching through protests yeah they do. \n\nHonestly the people that should be punished by the police officers that enabled this shit. Every police officer that thanked Kyle Rittenhouse and his LARPing buddies should be fired with no pensions.",
"Mostly peaceful",
"Yes it actually is self defenses if you shoot me. Literally a legal president for this already",
"Wow. Thanks for sharing more of what this is all really about to you as you allow all those deep inner feelings to boil to the surface.\n\nPlease carry on and continue to generalize \"you people\" and assume what I stand for and who I am. I am enjoying the meltdown. 🍿",
"Doesn't self defense have to be proportional? Rosenbaum was trying to take Rittenhouse's gun, but was he trying to kill him?",
"\"Routinely\" is the word omitted from that headline.\n\nEdit: I mean [\"regularly\"](https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1846494525/amp)",
"Innocent filanthropist Joseph Rosenbaum was murdered in cold blood while trying to talk to Kyle about the loving embrace of Jesus Christ. That work?",
"No because Kyle was running away from them. You can't claim self defense while chasing someone",
"believe it or not, it's not actually illegal to shoot someone if you believe yourself to be in danger.",
"So he illegally crossed state lines with an illegal weapon in order to impersonate law enforcement but since his actions lead to having a gun pointed at him it justifies lethal force? Fucking amazing....",
"The article says its kosher in taverns. Surprised it's not disallowed by the federal highway funding trickery but I assume it's all legal and dandy.",
"If you're 17 and a large part of the nation wants to see you burn - you'd likely fall into whatever group supports you too. Even if 18 is considered an adult by the law, he's a child with a lot of learning and growing to do. I don't even hold a grudge against him for his views (even though I oppose them vehemently) - those views were likely pressed on him by his family/influences. We can only hope as a nation that the children who are exposed to hate of any kind can eventually learn and grow out of it and raise children with better views on the world and the people around them.\n\nI grew up around many racists and their views poisoned me growing up and I'm still actively battling it because I don't want to be that kind of person. My only hope is I can influence my children to be better and not be exposed to hate.",
"Kyle worked as a life gaurd in Kenosha. He frequented the area. It’s pretty common for people who live at the WI/IL border to frequent both states and live/work in the other.\n\nJust for anyone who isn’t familiar or didn’t know that.",
"He also heard Rittenhouse state he was heading to the police.",
"Seems to me that had he instead shot Rittenhouse, he would be the one legitimately claiming self defense.",
"Thanks for telling me not to take you seriously.",
"Had this guy killed Kyle, would that have been \"justified\" in the law?",
"Can you link to that article?\n\nEdit: Read the article, that's not what NPR said they are reporting what Grosskreutz said and they pointed out that he changed his story on cross examination. It's not their fault that people have poor reading comprehension.",
"He's not qualified to do any of that.",
"I have seen so many of these posts. For one thing, you are totally ignoring what just happened in reality. In reality, he just shot someone else, ran away, and people thought he was an active shooter or otherwise trying to escape after shooting someone else. Multiple people tried to subdue him, well within their legal rights after their belief he just committed a crime. They never charged the witness or anyone else but Kyle with any crimes because they were within their rights to try to subdue him and use force. Just because Kyle didn't just shoot earlier than he did, doesn't mean anything. His life was not in danger. The witness had every right to use his gun on someone that was actively fighting and just shot someone else.",
"Fortunately, Reddit isn't a courtroom.",
">wouldn’t that go to intent if he knowingly went to a protest a state away armed with an AR15?\n\nNo.\n\nHe could take a flight the whole way across the country and a total stranger could give him a gun there. He could then go to a protest carrying that gun. Nothing indicates any sort of criminal intent in any of that. If he's attacked he can defend himself, plain and simple.\n\nYou also seem to be mentioning his travel across state lines as if it was some special distance. It's a shorter distance than I used to commute to work. Supposedly it literally was his commute to work since he worked in/around Kenosha.\n\n>And who’s in the right between the two different guys both pointing guns at each other?\n\nOne guy running away and the other pursuing? The pursuer is in the wrong when they initiate violence. It's not like Kyle ran down the street shooting random bystanders. He only saw Kyle shoot people who directly attacked him first, and he wasn't shooting people once they stopped attacking him.",
"Only because he thought Rittenhouse to be an active shooter...... which he was at that point.",
"’’ thats what we call a grand slam in the bisness ‘’ 😂😂",
"You are confused about a liberal with a gun and a conservative with a gun, I think.",
"> And they also should’ve probably focused on the fact that he only pulled out his gun after Rittenhouse had shot someone in front of him.\n\nSo, who was the first person to point a gun at someone else? Seems like this guy wasn't even involved until after the shooting started.",
"So the first guy was unarmed, and the other had a skateboard. Thanks for clearing that up.",
"Wow, who would’ve thought that the prosecutions witnesses would back up what we all already knew from watching the videos?",
"Grosskreutz only points gun toward Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse kills two people and aims at him. Maybe he was about to utilize his right to self defense but Kyle attempted to kill him first.",
"98% peaceful, the only hate groups were the white national ones that invited Rittenhouse",
"Yeah. It really depends on how the prosecution makes their case for what happened before the shootings, but looking at only the videos, he has a strong self defense case.\n\nHe's still a fuckhead and will get nailed on firearms charges, but that's it.",
"KR was not defending *his* property.\n\nBut yes, he did have the right to be there (curfew notwithstanding). That's one of the many legal technicalities he was exploiting for his vigilante fantasy.",
"Fantasy of shooting protestors? What’s the evidence of that? It’s certainly not the video outside the CVS.",
"Yeah those MAGA rallies have historically been such peaceful affairs, there definitely haven't already been a bunch of crusty commies trying to start fights at them over the past 5 years.",
"She was invited in by dc cops. It’s on video",
"You don't understand how the law works. It's telling you think of this as good guys and bad guys.\n\nRosenbaum attacked Kyle - self defence\nHuber attacked Kyle who was walking to surrender to police - self defence\nGrosskreutz lowered his weapon after Kyle pointed his at him, then raised it again and got shot - self defence\n\nKyle's claim isn't immaterial because he was aware he killed someone and why, Huber and Grosskreutz did not know the details, they wanted to kill the right winger that killed their pedo comrade. They reengaged Kyle who was walking towards police. The people shot initiated all the violence, so it's self defence",
">Would you consider both parties at fault if a mob of unarmed men chased and threatened to rape and murder your mother and your mom pulled a gun\n\nSome extreme hand-waving and whataboutism there. Fortunately I live in a country where we don't solve everything by shooting each other.",
"This law?\n\n[https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60)\n\nYou can have a rifle for target practice or the armed forces. That's it. What's vague about it?\n\nThe law for self defense has a specific provision that you cannot claim the privilege if you are in the commission of a crime. This seems like it's an open and shut case that he should not be able to claim self defense.",
"He shot this guy in the arm after murdering two other people. The hell is wrong with you?\n\nEdit - how is it always crypto kids (or bots) posting insanely stupid shit like this? Hysterical.",
"As far as every law I can find on underage drinking in Illinois is concerned, that is illegal. But if they’re openly flaunting it in public journalism they’re either really dumb, or that law is not enforced at all.",
"Even so yo still left it out",
"I would go as far as saying in the heat of the moment Gaige and Kyle were likely justified trying to shoot each other in self defense. Gaige just lost the quickdraw and is lucky he was only wounded.",
"> Why are we singling him out?\n\nBecause he killed people. Just like we would single out a drunk driver who killed people while driving more than a drunk driver who didn't. Even if they hit and kill another drunk driver, we'd still single them out more, even though they all made the same bad choice. Consequences matter.",
"I don’t watch tv I watch Reddit the internet and saw this idiot hanging out with other idiots with guns harassing people with them, they need to go to jail for it",
"I think that's kind of a straw man. I'm not talking about legality of police shootings. And even if it's the SMART thing to do. Legally you shouldn't get to shoot people if you're scared, people should be able to apprehend criminals if they are able. It might be dumb. In this case it was really but. But what people are arguing in Kyle's case is that people who are scared of being caught by a group of people should be immunized from their murders if he shoots them. Terrible precedent. Sets up all sorts of loopholes for criminals to be set free from their actions.",
"Property over lives",
"What is anyone doing with a rifle? Carrying it in case of the absolute worst case scenario when you need it to defend your life. Obviously don’t think he should’ve attended the event lol but my goodness, it’s a great thing he at least protected himself when did make the decision to go",
"And yet that’s not what the MSM headlines are running with…",
"[After Huber hit him in the head with a skateboard (which Gaige testified that risk of trauma to the head - such as a blow to the head with a skateboard - would be cause for concern)](https://youtu.be/Bv21bE9PWtE?t=9342)",
"They charged the guy who provided the gun with multiple felonies. And his trial will start after this one. Just because it hasn't been technically proven yet doesn't mean anything.",
"Reddit doesn't admit when they're wrong, they deflect and or simply move on. However this is one case where Reddit actively misrepresented a situation and will not learn a thing.",
"Self defense doesn't count if you put yourself in the situation as an instigator.",
"Why do people care so much about the specific intricacies and loopholes of the law? I get that a court proceeding has to be based on something, but how can you all sit here and act impartial? Act like its a good thing that a fucking murderer walks free because technically he murdered within specific stupid fucking loopholes? Like, who the fuck cares what the stupid fucking law says? Is the law always correct? Is it even USUALLY correct?? I don't fucking care if what the little shit did is technically okay based on the charge that has been levied against him. It is obvious that what he did was wrong, and 2 people would be alive if he didn't do what he did. I don't fucking CARE about the 'law' and neither should any of us. Fucking law is broken if this kid isn't guilty.",
"Yeah but like, Kyle is bad because he likes cops and was anti BLM and BLM protesters are innocent snowflakes who just want justice so Kyle is definitely a bad guy man. Law doesnt matter, politics and feelings do much more.",
"Ah yes, my bad, I definitely misremembered kyle allegedly putting out a trash fire… with his trump2020 branded ak47.\n\nGood thing he had the conservative model, otherwise it wouldn’t have been very effective as a fire suppressant.",
"Oh so you think Kyle went there to kill 'pedophiles' or whatever? Cause if so that makes it premeditated murder, not 'self defense' as everyone else was claiming. \n\n\nWhich is it? Was he there to hunt down pedos or was he just innocently walking around, across state lines with his rifle, until he just accidentally stumbled across some protestors who just attacked him for no reason?",
"Right after skateboard guy gets shot Gaige puts his hands up and Rittenhouse turns his attention to someone walking towards him with a club. That's when Gaige pulled his gun, pointed it at Rittenhouse and Rittenhouse shot him.",
"With that criminal history, would he be able to renew that expired CCL?....",
"He filed a 10 million dollar suit but neglected to mention he was armed and pointing a gun at Kyle. He used his false police statement to file that suit.\n\nNo, he pointed the gun at Kyle, and later his friend boasted about how he regretted not mag dumping Kyle when Kyle lowered his weapon. It'll take time to prove but to anyone with eyes it's clear and obvious",
"What are they running with?",
"I never mentioned GF until you did. Yawn.",
"He very well may get charged for certain things he did, but those other things do not carry penalties anywhere near equivalent to facing life in prison.\n\nSo what matters now, is if KR acted in self defense. And I would argue that the prosecution is losing horribly, embarrassingly, and floundering.\n\nI imagine he will be acquitted, but who knows what will end up happening.",
"But how then can a good guy with a gun stop a bad guy with a gun?\n\nWhat if people suspected Kyle was on a serial killing spree? Would they be allowed to take him down?",
"wouldn’t need to defend himself if someone hadn’t threatened his life and chased him. \n\nDo you see how this line of discussion is unproductive?\n\nI am saying that just because someone puts themselves in a situation doesn’t mean the automatically cede their right to self defense. That line of thinking is inherently victim blaming. We heard the same nonsense with the Micheal Brown case because he had stolen cigars.\n\nI am *not* saying Rittenhouse is a victim, or that he’s innocent, and I’m not defending his actions. The first shots fired weren’t filmed and dead people can’t testify, so its impossible to say whether or not Kyle shot Rosenbaum in self defense. If you want to disagree that’s fine, but you need to actually engage with the issue Rittenhouse is on trial for here.",
"If you're grabbing someone else's gun you're not unarmed.\n\nIf you're currently hitting someone with an object used as a weapon you're not unarmed.\n\nYou're objectively incorrect.",
"Rittenhouse tripped and then pointed the gun at someone nearby (who was unarmed)\n\nThis prompted two people to attack Rittenhouse in an attempt to get him to stop pointing his gun, and both of them were shot by Rittenhouse (one was unarmed and the other had a skateboard).\n\nIt’s at this point the guy in the video points his gun at Kyle before he himself is shot.",
"What exactly is murky about this?\n\n[https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60)\n\nKyle cannot have a rifle unless it's for target practice or for armed services.",
">So if an entire crowd of people say, 'that guy shot somebody.' I should just go on with my life and hope that he doesn't shoot anybody in the mean time?\n\nConsidering you're probably about as physically intimidating as a tellytubby yeah, you should probably just get on with your life and not try to play die hard in real life emergency situations.\n\n>If someone's running past me and a lady says 'He's got my purse.' I just ignore that? We just let him take the purse? After all I don't KNOW he took her purse.\n\nYeah and when that guy turns around and permanently blinds you stabbing at your eyes with his keys and faces absolutely 0 repercussions because he was just jogging and some stupid fuck started attacking him you can take solace in the fact that you played white knight for some random woman.\n\nThere's a reason the police tell you not to go around playing vigilante.",
"It actually hurts his self defense case a lot if jurors don't have the loaded baggage of the believing the protesters are rioters / violent.\n\nIf Kyle Rittenhouse has no reason to believe the people around him after his initial self-defense are a threat, then fleeing the scene while brandishing his firearm would be unreasonable. \n\nImagine if I got in a scuffle inside of a Walmart and had to shoot somebody dead. If instead of staying at the scene of the crime I decided to start running while brandishing my firearm, people will rightfully believe I'm an active shooter. \n\nI can have all the delusions in the world that everybody around me is out to kill me, but that is not reasonable. That's why I think you can't avoid the politics of this case. Kyle Rittenhouse and the ideology he follows inherently dehumanizes the people he was around.",
"The US really is the drama queen of countries.",
">he essentially showed up to a protest to hunt protestors\n\nHe did?",
"his back was pretty scary ngl",
"You sure seem to care enough to smear Mr Kyle Rittenhouse before a court has decided his weapon was illegally carried.",
"Kid was shooting people at point blank range. I'm not all that impressed with his precision.",
"There seems to be alot of missing audio...saw this video before and there were alot of ppl in the courtroom yelling after he said it was correct",
">Self defense laws don't distinguish between legal or illegal weapons when fighting for your life.\n\nWisconsin's does. You may not claim the self defense privilege if you're in the commission of a crime.",
"Bro I know everything I need to know about you. Grow the fuck up, manchild",
"What?? Like mandating forced medical procedures on everyone *except for congress, the CDC, and the gene therapy shot makers*. That kind of rules for thee but not for me?\n\nOr maybe mask mandates while newsom, pelosi, lightfoot etc etc etc don’t have to obey them. That kind of laws for the but not for me? \n\nYou live in a special kind of hypocrisy world if you think it’s just the right.\n\nGaetz was not charged because the allegations were false, which is nothing new since we had to endure five years of lies about Russian collusion and Russian assets everywhere, so we’ve come to expect lies from the left.",
"bUt He DiDnT sHoOt",
"Is someone else on trial?",
"Just because Rittenhouse defended himself one time doesn’t mean he doesn’t get to do it a second and third time. Rittenhouse was pursued, brought to the ground and defended himself.",
"Exactly. They love to play this clip because it conveniently ignores 99.9999999% of what happened that night and want to focus on the witness agreeing with the defense attorney that somehow proves their worldview.",
"Only one killed people—the same one who was defending himself from the animals who were doing things such as chasing him down, screaming obsecenities at him, and having just proclaimed that he would kill Kyle beforehand. Also smashing his head in with a skateboard and approaching him with a gun pointed at him. But I’m sure it makes total sense in your mind.",
"I think if they play that clip of him at a CVS threatening to shoot protesters it's going to hurt his case massively. They wanted to shoot random people just for being near the CVS.",
"\n\n>or that law is not enforced at all.\n\nIs it surprising that a nazi bar didn't want to kick him out and slipped him alcohol even though they shouldn't have? Who would even report them? I'm sure everyone on the scene would just lie and say it was nonalcoholic if someone tried to make something out of it.",
"he never crossed state lines with a firearm,",
"It feels like this whole big hooplah around this is manufactured, so they can get a public opinion going that \"oops, it all fell apart!\" as a way to exonerate KR.",
">Or if I'm in an active shooter situation and someone comes around the corner with a gun I don't grab him?\n\nI don't know if you're actually being serious \n\nBut please don't try to apprehend someone with a gun, especially if you're not armed.",
"why are people defending this little nazi twerp? He crossed state lines to kill leftists and you morons like him for it. jesus christ I hate this website.",
"Of course, but it depends on the crime. There are cases out there of drug dealers successfully claiming self defense.",
"The tough thing is that to everyone, it appears he probably excitedly anticipated the situation he put himself into and many deluded people will see the outcome of this situation as a win and warning shot for \"ANTIFA.\" \n\nThis outcome will not disuade anyone else from doing the same thing.",
"Is this comment real? WTF. Lmao America is fucked.",
"Didn't Rittenhouse *back down* by running away?",
"Body language has nothing to do with the facts of the case. I hope you don't bring that backwards rationality to a jury if you serve.",
"Indeed but it's easier to put people against each other than to sit down and look at the facts and evidence about anything.",
"Holy fuck, this \"joke\" is like 15 years old, inaccurate, and not even funny.\n\nGet new material ffs.",
"\"We've done nothing an we're all out of ideas\"",
">If I bought a rifle and started to patrol an area, I am within my rights. \n> \n>I could even choose to patrol the neighborhood around the headquarters of CNN, or FOX. I am within my rights.\n\nMilitias are outlawed every state so I think you're going to not be able to make the case that you're going to buy a gun to go on patrol and roleplay being a cop.",
"He was there to protect his community. As more people should be when politically motivated rioters burn cities nationwide for months with tacit approval from the democrats, police telling citizens they can't protect their property, and local DA's refusing to prosecute any of the rioters that came in from out of town for 75 nights prior.",
"He only hit him with a skateboard to get him to stop shooting someone else.",
"And you need a brain transplant moron.",
"It’s not really. I just feel like we should discuss his actual testimony and not a spin on it",
"He is a murderer.\n\nWhen you're in a tense situation, brandishing a gun is a muscle twitch away from pointing a gun. By bringing a weapon designed for mass murder to a protest, Rittenhouse courted danger and escalated a situation he had no business being at.\n\nI know that a website where people can't differentiate between a gun and their own dick won't agree with me, but all of the actions and decisions that Rittenhouse made leading up to that moment were unnecessary escalations that led to people's deaths. The fact that *the moment at which it occurred* played out as a justified escalation does not excuse every careless and irresponsible decision he made up to that point.",
"Your hypothetical isn’t anywhere close to the facts of the case.",
"You obviously aren't actually watching the trial and are getting your talking points from social media.\n\nNot to mention since when is screaming obscenities a death sentence? Aren't you guys all about \"free speech\"?",
"To be debated under WI law it's theoretically possible he was illegally carrying, possible not definitive. With the ambiguity for 16 or overs with long guns he could easily be granted lenity since as per the prosecutions witnesses Kyle had right to fear for his life.",
"A guy who just shot someone wearing latex gloves running down the street, is totally acting innocent and everyone should have just trusted that he was an A-OK dude. Let's change the color of this guy and we'll watch all this support evaporate overnight...",
"Posting someone's arrests and not solely their convictions is BS and you know it. Post only the convictions. I'm not saying he's a good person but the second one is garbage so I'll not bother to look at the rest til you honest up.",
"You're not getting it. In some instances YOU CANNOT ignore the situation. A la the active shooter situation I mentioned. It's such a straw man to say that it's dumb to apprehend people. It was dumb here. Yes. But if I'm in a situation where I really shouldn't ignore the situation then a shooter shouldn't get to kill me and be exculpated for my murder cause he was scared.",
"i wouldnt worry, the person you are replying to is clearly braindead.",
"Yes. That's pretty fair. That's just how war goes.",
"Well that's the thing, you didn't ask what was legal, you asked what you're supposed to do. *You* aren't supposed to determine if someone is an active shooter/threat. \n\nIf your goal is to get out alive, your best bet is to try and get out, and if you can't do that, stay put and hide and hope you get lucky. I know that doesn't feel particularly good to hear, but the stats don't support taking matters into your own hands, so it's not something that should be broached unless all other options are exhausted.",
"This is highly out of the norm that's why it's newsworthy.",
"Oh and Kyle was legally armed right? And had any reason to be there aside from counter protesting? None of the businesses in the area back up the claim that he was hired as security. He was there for shits and giggles to walk around with a gun.",
"Well nothing they did was illegal so no",
"He could see him not attacking anyone and moving towards police. Everyone that he saw rittenhouse shoot attacked him first.\n\nHe can go off of what other people said that he killed someone unprovoked, but he's risking that being wrong information, as it was in this case.",
"Was he actively shooting anyone not currently attacking him? You people are bonkers; this is the most clear cut case of self defense ever and you still want to pretend this is a mob of people defending each other from some evil shooter. What drugs are you guys on cause I would like some.",
"It most certainly is not 'mutual danger' when one person is trying to remove themselves from the situation but the other is chasing with intent to harm.",
"Yes because Kyle had an assault rifle in hand and just shoot two people in front of him",
"Yeah I mean I’m just saying he testified that he advanced on him, not that he was chasing him. Why revise his testimony?",
"Neither he was there to look after his friends business. He also didn't bring a rifle across state lines It's given to him in Kenosha. You must not have been paying attention. They attacked him and there's footage of this, because he was putting out a dumpster fire that they set.",
"That was kind of obvious from the videos, idk how this ‘challenges the narrative’ like these Reddit warriors in the comments are jerking themselves off about. Had I been armed in a situation where multiple gunshots were fired by some armed 16 year old in a crowd of people I would have done the same thing, and had he killed Kyle Rittenhouse I would not have blamed him. People seem to think that legality constitutes morality in this situation, this does not make Kyle Rittenhouse the saint you all seem to want him to be.",
"Could go so far as to say the European settlers of the 15th century should have stayed home, too. None of this would have happened!",
">How am I supposed to to determine whether or not that shooter is innocent or not?\n\nYou literally don't. If the crime isn't currently taking place, you can't apprehend someone for what you suspect they did. It was illegal when two rednecks tried to do it to Ahmaud Arbery, it was illegal when a mob of people tried to do it in Kenosha. \n\n\n> It seems like saying Rittenhouse is innocent would de incentivized ANYONE to take down a shooter if they were unsure.\n\nGood. You should never \"take down\" anyone if you're unsure.",
"No. But this wasn't your typical type of case. The whole country was primed for something violent to happen. The left was incensed, as was the right. Both sides were being egged on by their respective news outlets, social media figures, and politicians. The whole thing was a giant tinderbox waiting to burst into flames. I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a mass casualty event at one of these protests.",
"The jury isn't clip chimping. And if they are doing their job correctly they aren't consuming related media after the trials.",
"Care to link a few?",
"It seems straightforward coz you're smoothbrained and uninformed of the technicalities of the law or the facts of the case.",
"I’m not talking about the past. I’m theorizing about possible implications if violence is determined to be self defenses, what’s stopping someone on the left from doing what I described? Seems like a great way to get enforce ‘eye for an eye’ justice imo.",
"George Floyd, a man who was high on fentanyl and was positive for covid at his time of death? THE George Floyd who threatened a pregnant woman with a gun in her own house? The George Floyd who neglected his child, had more than 5 stints in jail for dealing drugs? I don't and will never support people like him, but I guess hes the hero now who gets to be buried in a golden coffin. Fucking laughable\n\nYour head is filled with leftie propaganda to the point where you will use race and feelings over any reasonable statement. Virtue signal more, I am sure you are considered to be a beacon of morality to a lot of people online.",
"Why not?",
"Had to go deep to find this comment. You're absolutely correct.",
"> him waking around with a rifle is not aggressive\n\nThis country is so fucked that people think this way.",
"You mean aside from shooting 2 people?",
"Kyle Rittenhouse said he was there “to defend businesses” in a place that he doesn’t even live. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see why he was there with a Smith & Wesson M&P15, to shoot people. How else did he plan on “defending businesses?”",
"What is wrong with your brain that makes you fabricate these scenarios, when when truth has been filmed from multiple angles since day one?",
"> That’s the police’s job to handle, not random people.\n\nSo do you apply this logic to Rittenhouse as well, meaning he should not have been there playing vigilante?",
"Or it's like 100% of the problem is society has been tolerating mob violence for far too long",
"It’s gotta go beyond that, right? It takes one city official or state official to shut them down. But that’s quite clearly not the case. Seems pretty evident the whole state doesn’t care to enforce the law.",
"Yet at any point, if you were just a moment slower and one of those people managed to shoot you first. They would be able to make the same exact feared for my life/self defense argument as you would have made.",
"So I’ve watched the trial. Grosskreutz said he “thinks” that. He was *assuming* that’s what happened because he doesn’t know what other reason someone would chamber a round for (even though there’s many reasons). That doesn’t at all mean it’s true. It’s what he personally believes. Mind you this is the same guy who allegedly said his only regret was not dumping the entire mag into Kyle. And who tried to lie about Kyle only shooting him whenever the gun was pointed at him. Lastly, the shithead never retreated. He kept coming forward. If you’re truly surrendering you don’t keep walking towards someone unless they’re commanding you to.",
"I am!",
"So then, how did he know he was shooting at pedophiles and domestic abusers? Is he a mind reader? \n\n\nNah, what happened is that he shot some dudes. And then AFTERWARDS people started making excuses as for why the killings were 'justified'. As always happens when some white right wing gun nut guns down people.",
"Well that someone else only attacked him because Kyle was pointing a gun at someone nearby (who was unarmed and hadn’t attacked him) in an attempt to get him to stop pointing his gun at him.",
"Wikipedia says an active shooter is:\n\n>Active shooter or active killer describes the perpetrator of a type of mass murder marked by rapidity, scale, randomness, and often suicide, usually associated with the United States. The United States Department of Homeland Security defines an active shooter as \"an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area; in most cases, active shooters use firearms and there is no pattern or method to their selection of victims.\"[1]\n\nWhich doesn't seem to me that it would apply here. Either way like you said he was running away at that point. I think you are naive if you think that crowd would have just taken his gun.",
"Sure, but there is 0 evidence for that though. In fact, the videos show him going around asking people if they need a medic. It shows him moving objects, such as containers, out of the road.",
"It seems fucking wild to me that someone can go looking for a fight, with a weapon he’s not allowed to have, and be able to claim self defence because he found the exact fight he was looking for",
"The most important thing here is legality. It's the precedent. Its not about what's smart. It's not about what you should do. It's how the law treats people who shoot people trying to apprehend then when those people believe their apprehending a criminal. All this 'you should' BS is just a distraction from what's important. The precedent in law.",
"Where was Rittenhouse's gun pointed?",
"There's a video of him assaulting a girl prior to the shootings. There's also testimony I believe from a friend of his about how he talked about wanting to shoot protestors from a previous protest.",
"We know from video evidence and testimonial that Rittenhouse had a history of violence and had fantasies of shooting protestors like he did.\n\nWhere can I find this evidence? I wasn't aware of either of those claims.",
"Headlines like “ Grosskreutz testifies he had his hands up when Rittenhouse shot.”\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/qq23xy/npr_falsely_claims_grosskreutz_had_his_hands/\n\nOr that he thought he was going to die https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victim-says-he-thought-he-was-going-to-die/ar-AAQsDUy\n\nBurying the lede so they can maintain their narrative",
"Self report",
"There is video of Kyle assaulting a women. I don't hear you all calling him \"the woman beater\". Is it because you are biased a fuck? Yes.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN6LokqIrEs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN6LokqIrEs)\n\nProves he will overreact like a shitty teenager does. Maybe someone like this shouldn't be allowed to run around with a AR-15. Oh wait he is not allowed. But don't let that get in the way of your 'hero' worship.",
"NPR was quoting him in the trial.\n\n>In three hours of dramatic testimony Monday, Grosskreutz, 27, \nacknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, \n2020, but said that his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his \nrifle at him and that he feared for his life. \n\n\n[https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha)",
"Counter protesters have less of a right to carry a gun to protest than peaceful protesters do (IMO).\n\nI think someone gong to a protest with a gun is a very different thing than an counter protestor (supporting police rather than law abiding citizens) bringing a gun across state lines to hunt human beings.\n\nYes, Rittenhouse may have technically used self defense as described by the law. But as an example, if someone walked into a boxing gym with a handgun in their back pocket and called everyone in the place a bunch of weaklings, would it really be self defense if the insulter opened fire because he thought the boxers were going to beat him up? he antagonized them and had every plan to walk in and probably use the weapon on the people he went in with the intention of antagonizing.",
"Rittenhouse was literally retreating. What else do you expect him to do to \"back down\" if running away isn't enough for you?",
"Thank you, I hope you don't get downvoted.",
"Anyone can be out in public. This is a red herring and is just stupid to try and make public property an issue. You don’t know his motive and clearly haven’t been watching the stream of the trial. At all.",
"You know, if BLM murdered a fucking police officer we would never forget about it, you'd be reminding us every chance you get.\n\nNow here you are forgetting your own side murdered a fucking police officer in one of the few sacred places we have left.",
"That's a bit of a stretch. Rittenhouse was doing everything he could to disengage from the mob chasing him down. He wasn't shooting or looking for targets. After shooting Gaige he could have shot any number of others, but he didn't. Dropkick and Skateboard (and Gaige) were pumped up by the mob and were playing Equalizer.",
"Because he shot someone???? If you are there to instigate and are carrying an AR 15 to cause fear, sorry but you are part of the cause. There's a reason I'm not going to a MAGA rally with a Hillary Clinton t-shirt and a AR 15 and antagonizing the mob.\n\nIf I just concealed carried, causing arguments around a city all day until someone swung at me so I could shoot them, would you say I had no part of that and it was justified. The difficult part is proving intent, but I would say going there and being in that situation is intent. Is carrying a AR 15 for self-defense? Well, you can use self-defense if you are retreating, but in a macro view, putting yourself in a situation in which you need that self-defense is being an aggressor. He may have run from a few people, but he drove to that place to cause a problem. We know fights break out in protests against counter-protesters, it's very easy to manipulate the situation to live your call of duty fantasies.",
">If you go looking for trouble, you can't claim 'self defense' if others react accordingly to defend themselves... from you..\n\nYou can, actually. There is no \"only one person can be right\" rule in play.",
"Yes and the video shows what I outlined",
"this is where the defense totally falls apart. You can't instigate a fight, kill the guy, and then claim self defense. When you shoot someone and nearby people try to disarm you because they fear you might be a mass shooter, you can't just kill them and claim self defense.",
"Here before comments locked or thread removed.",
">Because he killed people.\n\nAfter being chased and attacked. That is vital context a disappointing number of people are ignoring.",
"Exactly my point.",
"No, it doesn’t. My point is not to let a few bad Reddit comments skew your perception of people more broadly",
"Funny enough that’s the only thing I’ve been watching. What makes you think such a thing though? What’d I get wrong? Always open to being corrected. And no, making death threats and then running full speed at someone and grabbing their gun isn’t free speech. That’s clearly a death threat when you factor in he went out of his way to chase Kyle down not long after saying it.",
"The responses to your post are a study in confirmation bias. No one can make a valid point anymore without perversion and divisiveness taking over the reins of reasonable response. We’re doomed.",
"Mmm good thing you aren't a lawyer then.",
"It is just a tug-of-war of who's opinion is \"winning\" and there are plenty of people desperate to be validated.\n\nThe media (including Reddit) circus around this is pretty awful. Just let the fucking trial play out. My only opinion of the matter is everyone is a bit of an asshole and introducing guns to the situation just made it a whole lot more deadly. \n\n*Rittenhouse also touched his face after Grosskreutz said that... what is he hiding??*",
"Oh, she was invited in passed the doors, up the stairs, and through a window? Was the secret service shouting \"STOP STOP STOP\" super welcoming as well?\n\nLmao because one sympathetic cop at a FENCE waved some people in you think this means they were invited inside? GTFO.",
"riot magic word",
">he essentially showed up to a protest to hunt protestors\n\nAre we just making stuff up now? That's fun. I think it's fine since as we know from the evidence Rosenbaum planned 3 months prior to show up at that specific protest and rape Rittenhouse.\n\nThis whole making stuff up thing is fun!",
"It's hilarious hearing this from people they get hard-ons thinking about how they would stop an active shooter with their firearm. \n\nSo many conservative arguments break down during this Kyle Rittenhouse case if you go down just a few logical chains.",
"It seems you don’t like BLM. This is why I do it. Because you are a racist pos",
"Legality≠morality, two separate arguments to be made here idk why you’re treating the fine line between them like a merry-go-round.",
"You're almost certainly going to see that occur.\n\nI do not think you're going to be pleased with that though. It appears that most of the \"law experts\" I've been reading believe that there's almost no chance that testifying will hurt his defense and will more likely *help* him.\n\nSo, what then?",
"Lmao, its sad how such a statement is controversial now. I saw entire video of george floyd's arrest, from the moment cops stopped his car to the point of his death. Cop did nothing wrong, dude was high on fentanyl and was covid positive at the time of his death. \nKarma is a bitch indeed.",
"Openly carrying a firearm amid civil unrest. Nah that doesn’t effect anything",
"There's video evidence of Rittenhouse assaulting a girl prior to the protest. One of his friends I believe also mentioned that after a previous protest Rittenhouse made a comment about wishing he was at the protest so he could shoot the protestors",
"Classic",
"He also testified that he only pointed the gun at Kyle after realizing he was re-racking his rifle to shoot and that Kyle didn’t accept his “surrender” with his hands up. Kyle was also already pointing the rifle at him as he readied to fire again. So Kyle points gun, Grosskeutz puts his hands up, Kyle gets ready to shoot again, Grosskeutz sees this and points his gun at Kyle and Kyle shoots him in the bicep first.\n\nBut that isn’t making the media rounds. Wonder why.",
"The Ahmaud Arbery is completely different. To clarify I'm talking about non lethal apprehension, which we should always be able to do. \n\nCheck out my responses to your second point below. It's naive to assume you'll always have a choice in taking someone down or not. A la an active shooter situation. In your response you should just let an active shooter gun you down if you didn't SEE him shoot someone.",
"Stupid beatnik parents.",
"> Self defense laws don't distinguish between legal or illegal weapons when fighting for your life.\n\nIn WI they kind of do. \"Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows:\n(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him\" https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48\n\n And a big question before this trial was, if you break the law in any way (like shoplift) are you even allowed to claim self-defense or not? What kind of unlawful conduct is of a \"type likely to provoke others\"? Is carrying an illegal weapon a type of unlawful conduct likely to provoke others?",
"If the argument is that Kyle instigated bystanders to intervene causing a situation where Kyle feared for his life, it is not self-defense. You can't challenge someone to step outside for a fight, suddenly fear for your life and pull a gun and claim self defense.",
"A few here and there that meet certain narratives. Zimmerman, for instance, got big press. But no one knows who Roderick Scott is:\n\nhttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/roderick-scott/",
"Yeah I don't care about being called a right winger for stating facts and acknowledging reality lmao. If it's true it's true",
"There's video showing he pulled the gun way before any shots had been fired (at the 2nd altercation)",
"Would that require an entirely new court case to consider those things?",
"He shot someone in the head, I hope they took his gun and beat his little ass. Still not a lynching. Still not unwarranted. He killed someone and would go to kill more, which was all precipitated by his... killing someone. Do you think it would have been a more fair outcome if this guy or someone else would have just put one in the bank of his head the second he shot and killed someone?",
"Yeah I should just let him shoot me. Thanks. Great advice.\n\nThe mass shooter will just let me go. That's how it works yeah.",
"Nothing is stopping them, as we've already seen the \"left\" *has* done this over and over under the guise of fighting fascism in order to suppress political ideas they disagree with. They've already went to all the trump rallies looking for a fight. The difference between that and this situation is that kyle rittenhouse wasn't the aggressor, as usual the \"left\" were the violent criminals looking for blood. They just also happen to be thick as pig shit so they started it and ended up dead. Nothing of value lost.",
"He probably heard it on CNN.",
"I hear people say they are outlawed. But i don't see alot of Militias being shut down. \n\nI am just trying to figure out how to go and get the milk without getting shot by someone who assumes my intentions.",
"Peaceful protests happen during the day. 2020's Protests After-Hours was anything but peaceful.",
"There was a cop that had a heart attack or a stroke or something",
"\"99 percent of protests are peaceful\"\n\nBLM protests? That's a lie",
">a history of violence and had fantasies of shooting protestors\n\nThis is the first time I've seen anyone mention either regarding Rittenhouse. Please cite your source. \n\nThe first 'victim' had a history of violence, are you mixing the two up?",
"Wow ☹️ say sorry again",
"Thank Gaia.... the truth",
"If you mean the prosecution trying to pretend that Kyle pointed a gun at Ziminski before Rosenbaum chased him through a parking lot you might want to learn that Ziminski **WAS** armed **AND** fired the first shot into the air **FOR NO FUCKING REASON.**\n\nNot only that, but the footage the prosecutors would like for us to believe shows Kyle pointing his weapon first is impossible to decipher due to graininess and a freaking traffic light blocking them during the 'crucial moment' where this supposedly takes place.\n\nNot only that, but someone pointing a gun at you \\[which I personally think is bs\\], doesn't then forfeit their right to self defense, you can't just chase them through a parking lot after verbally threatening people (even specifically Kyle) that night (The Rosenbaum character evidence has already been established in court, but don't let that stop y'all from defending this crazy motherfucker)",
"I'm sure tucker Carlson told you that, but the facts suggest otherwise.",
"In the end I think Kyle was defending himself, but the problem is he should have never been there as a 17 year old defending anything with a gun.",
"grosskreutz was illegally concealed carrying his pistol.\n\nSelf defense still applies. If someone was shooting at you and you hopped in a running car next to you and ran them over killing them, you still stole a car but the self defense is valid.",
"Kyle literally did the Lord's work only shooting pedos, arsonists and pieces of shit",
"Who are they actively trying to harm? Criminals. And who are you? Another potential criminal. Yes police are actively looking for crime to stop. They are actively trying.",
"Well you can’t blame someone for thinking that. Look at the dude.",
"The prosecution was tasked with proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was not in a fight for his life from Martin at the time he chose to pull his gun and pull the trigger.\n\nThey couldn't do that, unfortunately there was not video evidence in that case like there is in the Rittenhouse case.\n\nCould Zimmerman have went to investigate, been jumped, had his head slammed into the concrete several times, feared being killed, grabbed his gun and shot Martin as a defensive act to save his life, sure.\n\nPathologist testified in agreement with Zimmerman's account.\n\nhttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin--marijuana/2501293/\n\nSo how are you going to prove otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt?\n\nEither way, the circumstances in either case are very different, but in either case it all boils down to who is trying to escape the situation at the time of the shooting. That's how self defence is decided.\n\nHad things worked out differently and Martin had instead killed Zimmerman in that alley, the gun was out, unholstered, and Martin claimed self defense from an armed assailant in an alley who Matin claimed did not identify himself and felt was about to murder him then Martin too would have had a good self defense claim due to lack of evidence making it impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt he wasn't simply defending himself.",
"> , but the media spent weeks pushing that narrative after it happened.\n\nI can't wait for the lawsuits and Rittenhouse's big payday.",
"That's why you're in jail right now, right?\n\nOh. They *attempted* to arrest you. So in other words they found the information and let it be. Got it. But still stupid and dangerous.",
"> There is no \"only one person can be right\" rule in play.\n\nThere kind of is.... it's absurd to claim 'both people were defending themselves'...",
"Iirc Kenosha is the largest city close to where he lives, 30 mins away or so. Allegedly, he works in Kenosha. Don't quote me on that but yea",
"Uh, doesn't this guy hang out with Three Percenters now?",
"Because that's his interpretation of what happened that doesn't match video evidence we have. He reached for a gun, Kyle raised his to point at him, grosskreutz backed out and raised his hands. As Kyle was clearing a jam, he tried to kill Kyle when he thought he had no way of shooting but Kyle was too fast for him and got a shot off by the time he raised his gun to execute Kyle. Justified shooting.",
"We'll were both speculating here so we wont know till it happens. This is a 50/50 shot it could go well for him and vice versa.",
"But he was not delusional... and testimony backs this up... all he has to have is a reasonable belief that his life is in danger, that is the legal requirement. and reasonable is defined as what the average person in the same situation would believe. And he had a very reasonable reason to believe his life was in danger... don't be mad at Rittenhouse for being a faster shot. He was down, he could no longer retreat... there was a gun pointed at him by an individual who had been pursuing him with a firearm. reason is firmly established.",
"No they were attempting citizens arrest as they had probably cause to do so",
"> when he should definitely go to jail.\n\nSorry, how can you come to this conclusion? What should he go to jail for?",
"I am saying these things in the given context are synonyms",
"Every npr article on this case is a cesspool too.",
"You people aren't worth talking to lmao you have the reading comprehension ability of a frog",
"No, I'm talking about the video of Rittenhouse assaulting a girl a few days/months before the shooting",
"Right, especially when he placed a precision shot into the first guys back.",
"Crude, but very apt to this thread.",
"Don't forget Rosenbaum's friend (acquaintance?) actually fired first, into the air, behind Rittenhouse, so it's very possible Rittenhouse thought they were shooting at him.\n\nAlso, Rosenbaum appears to have ambushed Rittenhouse, hiding behind a car, and sprinting out at Rittenhouse who was walking down the street. At the start of the ambush, you can hear someone yelling \"Get him, get him, get him!\"",
"The flaw is that Kyle didn't do anything assholey.\n\nHe put out a dumpster fire, then ran away. Nothing about that is assholey. Eventually he stopped running and defended himself an alternative way. Defending yourself is not assholey.",
"Edited my comment",
"...into a prison cell.",
"So are you gonna provide the source(s) or what?",
"Good lord the delusion is real. There's no point arguing politics with you since you literally don't live in the same reality as the majority of us. Keep lying to yourself. I'm sure you've gone this far without wearing a mask or getting a vaccine and I highly doubt anyone will force you to unless you wanna go to any business or work at one. Business has rights to deny you a job or service if you don't comply with their rules. That's how the world works for the adults out here. Sorry you seem to think that's a government mandate but it's not. Businesses have the right to do what they want in that regard. If you want to deny that they have that right, you don't want to live in a free country and you can stop claiming you do. \n\nYou live in lies bud. You delude yourself for personal comfort to the point that you're misinformed about the real world. You have fun with that. Keep spitting that fox news bullshit. None of which you can back up. You do realize that DTJ admitted that most of their money comes from Russia. You do realize that most of how Trump dealt with Russia in office made him look like Putin's doormat right? You do realize that makes it harder for you to keep spouting oh no Russian collusion. The man sucked the cocks of dictator's around the world because he's just like you. He looks up to strong men because he can't think for himself.\n\n\nhttps://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/31/man-charged-with-25m-extortion-scheme-promising-pardon-for-rep-matt-gaetz-1390611\nOh yeah totally innocent.\n\n\n\"A Florida developer and fraud convict was arrested Tuesday on a charge that he tried to extort $25 million from the father of Rep. Matt Gaetz in exchange for a presidential pardon that would shut down a high-profile, criminal sex-trafficking investigation into the Republican congressman.\"",
"Yeah good thing that's not what happened or how the law is applied.\n\n\"it seems fucking wild to me that someone can go looking for a good time, with a dress she shouldn't be wearing, and be able to claim rape because she found the exact fun she was looking for\". You're a moron",
">To the people saying that the rioters should have stayed home too, you're completely missing the point.\n\nNo u.\n\n>If it was up to me everyone should have stayed home.\n\nFuck everyone's rights because three violent criminals got capped? Nah.",
">If Kyle was carrying an SBR then it would be a problem.\n\nWell the real problem would be that a true SBR is an NFA item and needs a tax stamp.",
"I agree, and also very left leaning. He did a lot of running away prior to shooting only when actively attacked.\n\nI can understand why people thought *he* was a threat though, because it was such a chaotic situation and he'd just shot someone. But running at him and trying to attack him doesn't really help even if he not acted in self defense.\n\nUltimate the most obvious thing about this is that none of these people should have had guns, and guns in the hands of the public for self defence is just not a good idea or you get situations like this.",
"Btw the first guy he shot was a convicted pedophile.\n\nhttps://nypost.com/2021/07/07/kyle-rittenhouse-attorney-blames-shooting-on-victim-sex-offender-status/",
"He had to, it's all on video.",
">A guy who just shot someone wearing latex gloves running down the street, is totally acting innocent and everyone should have just trusted that he was an A-OK dude.\n\nNo, they should have gotten the fuck out of there and let him run to police/informed police. He wasn't threatening or trying to kill anyone at that point, trying to chase him and beat him only resulted in another man dead and one seriously injured.",
"What they are supposed to do and what they do are not always the same thing. People are not robots.",
"I agree completely",
"Technically, crossing a state border is relevant as it makes it a federal matter - but that will likely only be relevant to the weapons charge. But it also illustrates his intent.\n\nIt's certainly possible that GG intended to shoot someone, but what's important to the case is that he *actually was shot* and KR wasn't. So he actually had a legitimate reason to shoot KR if he had wanted to.\n\nAlso he was only one of three people who KR shot. So you have to play this same game with the rest of them too.",
"This is not in the statutes. It just says if you're under 18 the laws saying you can't open carry don't apply to long guns line rifles and shotguns as long as you aren't violating hunting ordinances and it's not a short barreled rifle. There's literally nothing in the law about it being a hunting specific exception. A lot of media reported it that way because it makes it look worse but there's nothing in the actual law that said that at all. \n\nI encourage you to look up the actual law.",
"> The tough thing is that to everyone, it appears he probably excitedly anticipated the situation he put himself into and many deluded people will see the outcome of this situation as a win and warning shot for \"ANTIFA.\"\n\nThis is completely true, but even more completely irrelevant to the case at hand. The case at hand is not trying his mental culpability for putting himself in one of the stupidest fucking positions imaginable by a human being. Nor his responsibility for arriving at a protest, etc etc. \n\nThis case has no political implications. The case is being tried on virtue of the fact whether Kyle defended himself under the blanket of the law or not. That's it.",
"Grosskreutz will be eligible to claim $10m if Rittenhouse is found guilty.",
"Oh snap, maybe you should tell all the lawyers and the judge. Hurry up before they give out jury instructions saying that self-defence is a legitimate defense. \n\n\nEdit: ALSO \"(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28. \" That is what's vague about it.",
"That’s not what I was talking about.\n\nI was talking about when Kyle tripped and fell when fleeing, which is when he then pointed a gun at someone, which then instigated people to attack him to get him to stop",
"Yeah right they will all pay, and I hope to god they do.",
"Lmao atleast you're honest enough to admit this isn't about the facts and simply about whether leftists should have free reign to terrorize streets for months. Kyle stood up to that, non violently so they tried to kill him. He defended himself. He walks. Any evidence he's a Nazi?",
"Why would that be necessary when the police are in sight at the end of the street and he's making his way towards them?",
"Congrats, you have one of the most stupid takes in this entire thread.",
"If anything that just illustrates how relevant it is, as shit hasn't changed.\n\nThis has big find a new slant energy",
"I can’t speak for you, but I have a 4 year old daughter. If someone yells “that guy just shot somebody”, I fucking run. If my family is there, I grab them then run.",
"You absolutely can ignore the situations because once again, you're a doughy fucking nerd who can offer absolutely no help whatsoever. Any attempt you make to help actual emergency service professionals will simply get you and other people hurt. \n\nYOU, THE PASTY OVERWEIGHT NERD WITH A LOVECRAFT NAME, HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SKILLS OR PHYSICAL MEANS TO HELP IN AN ACTIVE SHOOTER SITUATION. YOU CANNOT HELP.",
"I’m sorry what? Did you just equate a woman going on a fun night out with a guy going to a riot with a gun? WTF is wrong with you?",
"Wow, that is some spin. Grosskreutz literally said Rittenhouse didn't fire until he pointed his gun at, and moved towards, Rittenhouse from a range of 3 feet. Grosskreutz did NOT say Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him when his hands were raised. In fact, Grosskreutz said the exact opposite. It is amazing how invested the media is in crucifying this guy. The media used to be the one protecting people from government overreach, now they are championing it.",
"https://nypost.com/2020/09/01/video-shows-kenosha-shooter-kyle-rittenhouse-punching-a-girl-report/",
"> After being chased and attacked.\n\nBecause of that bad decision he made. Just like if I'm drunk, start driving, people threaten me for driving drunk, then I get scared and as a result kill someone with my drunk driving. \n\nYou don't get to just say, well he was threatened and hand wave away everything.",
">The Ahmaud Arbery is completely different. To clarify I'm talking about non lethal apprehension, which we should always be able to do.\n\nThe claim you're making: \"they (the protestors) were trying to apprehend an individual who had just committed a crime\" is nearly identical to what the two men in Georgia claim they were doing when they confronted Ahmaud Arbery. They claim they were trying to apprehend him and didn't shoot him until he attacked/went for one of their guns.",
"[Yeah, you can see him in videos from earlier in the year being very helpful and very non-violent.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/iixaux/kyle_rittenhouse_along_with_other_white_males/)",
"when you cross a state line in the committing of a crime, it becomes a federal crime in many instances. that's just how the law works.",
"https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha",
"You mean some kid traveled out of state with an illegally carried firearm and proceeded to murder two people and shoot a third.",
"If you find the link send it to me for sure, doesn’t change anything about the trial but definitely food for thought",
"Okay you're basically admitting he was a vigilante. That effectively voids the self-defense argument.",
"NPR chose to quote a lie and run it uncritically as the social media description when Grosskruetz also admitted that Kyle only shot him after he pointed his gun at Kyle. \n\nNPR is morally bankrupt\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/libertarianmeme/comments/qpns7g/about_an_hour_after_gaige_geosskreutz_for_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share",
"\"seems\" like is not a reason. For all you know Kyle did something to instigate something right before the shooting. But don't let that get in the way of the narrative that somehow Rosenbaum was super aggressive, meanwhile all these guys show up in tactical gear holding weapons to intimidate people. So let's not act like Kyle was just minding his own buisness here.",
"As you said yourself, there are white nationalist subreddits, and they certainly push their agenda. On reddit. Sometimes it even spills over to mainstream subs like in this case. \n\nTake your chill pill.",
"No this is false. Kyle shot Grosskreutz in self defence after he tried to kill Kyle. He even said he'd kill him. Kyle then tried to walk away to surrender to the cops. These idiots had no idea what happened, all chased him down and re-engaged him, putting him in a second self defence situation as he was trying to retreat and surrender.",
"So is a kid grabbing an assault weapon, crossing state to go into a riot. That’s what’s out of norm is. The aftermath was one plausible and very possible outcome.",
"... You mean the guy that is currently being referred to in court as \"Jump Kick Man\" ?\n\nYou're too fucking far gone, you're not even watching the freaking trial. Can't wait to see you go crazy when he's free. Like, just rewind the fucking link I gave you 5 minutes, pretty sure the whole incident is picked apart beautifully for you.",
"My friend, it is literally a felony to buy a firearm through a straw purchase, that firearm is now illegal, just like owning a firearm that has a serial number ground off - possession of an illegal firearm is a crime.\n\nPeriod.",
"I mean he could’ve just sprayed and prayed 😂 I challenge you to do such a thing in the heat of the moment",
"Whatever you want to make up in make believe world I guess lol!",
"It absolutely does not. You’re delusional.",
"Too much CNN. I miss the early-mid Obama era when they were still trustworthy and Fox were the only crazy ones…",
"Rittenhouse: Those people rioting are dangerous. The whole situation is dangerous. I should insert myself into this situation despite being an untrained minor, and posses a firearm I am legally to young to posses, in a place I don't live.//The situation that I believe was dangerous (because that's why I'm here) is dangerous and I now have no choice but to kill people)\n\nHalf this comment section: He is an excellent human being and this is text book self defense. \n\nExcept it's not.\n\nThis excerpt is from the state legislation.\n\n\"(b) The presumption described in par. (ar) does not apply if any of the following applies:\n\n1. The actor was engaged in a criminal activity or was using his or her dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business to further a criminal activity at the time.\"\n\nThat crime being, illegal possession of a firearm.",
"Just because I don't like BLM doesn't mean im a racist.",
"He actually wasn't. He was walking away from the crowd, to surrender to cops. They ran after him and re-engaged him. Grosskreutz admirs it and it's on video where Kyle tells him he's going to the police. So you're wrong.",
"This was *after* Rittenhouse had already shot other people, so Grosskreutz was at least aware there was an active shooter. If I had a gun and saw someone walking wielding a rifle, I would have pointed it at him too.",
"That’s a big if. No evidence of that so far.",
"Maybe it was self defense, maybe Rittenhouse created the situation. He went to a protest coming from opposition with a gun. Him bringing the gun with the intention of using it if someone broke a fucking window pane in aboslutely uncalled for. The very act of having a gun with you, on your person's with the intent to use it if you see something YOU don't like is a threat in itself. \n\nTell me, if you were attending a rally for something, and a person with opposing views was there patrolling the area looking for a reason to use their gun, how would that be viewed? Rittenhouse was there and he WAS looking for a reason to shoot someone. No one would feel comfortable if you and your community got together to speak out against something, and there was some guy, holding a gun, wearing tactical gear, running around with the intention to kill someone if what he saw didn't align with how he thinks outliers in the protest should be acting.\n\nA massive rule of having a gun is do not have the gun in your hands unless you have the intention of using it. You DO NOT handle your gun unless you are using it. Maybe it would be different if he wasn't handling it. If someone walked up to me holding an assault rifle, I would take that as a direct threat, and that's without obvious opposition to what you're speaking of, AND without the knowledge that the person came up to me with the intention to use it if I did something they didn't like. \n\nThis is simple, it would be the same with a knife. Have you ever seen someone walking around holding a knife WITHOUT the intention to use it for something? In this case, on someone. At the end of the day NEVER, EVER, wield a weapon in a high tension situation especially and expect people to NOT take that a threat. Violence comes in many forms, intentional or not.",
"All those videos of that night, and I still have yet to see a \"riot\" that Rittenhouse was near or tried to stop...",
"Pulling a gun on someone shooting people is not a crime. People are spinning this up to be some kind of argument, but drawing a legal firearm on an active shooter isn't the least bit controversial.",
"I just want to know how he got from shooting rosenbaum here to having to run from other people. Did people start running at him first, or after he started randomly fleeing the scene? \n\nFrom the clip you showed I don't see any reason he couldn't have stayed at the scene of his supposed self-defense until authorities showed up. \n\nHe has to unreasonably believe everybody within a mile of him is a threat to justify his actions. \n\nKyles erratic behavior should impact the reasonableness of his self defense.",
"Yeah you're right if I'm hiding in an active shooter situation and the shooter comes around the corner and I don't know he's the shooter I should just let him shoot me. That's great.",
"Where is this video? I'm actually quite curious to see",
"Is Gaige on trial?",
"His motive was to counter protest and walk around with his proud boy heros. You won't even admit that which is pretty sad. I never said his motive was to go shoot a bunch of people. Just that he illegally acquired a gun and walked around past curfew with it, while having zero permission to do so from said businesses. He wasn't there to secure the area as he wasnt legally hired to do so. He doesn't need a motive as he literally shouldn't have been there in the first place. He wasn't security, he doesn't live there. Lemme know when you come up with yet another bullshit motive for him being there so I can pick it apart.",
"And you have the brain of a goldfish!",
"You really have a warped sense of what actually happened that day.",
"Mate, if their weapon happens to be illegal then they are guilty of another crime entirely.\n\nA straw purchased firearm is an illegal firearm.",
"https://nypost.com/2020/09/01/video-shows-kenosha-shooter-kyle-rittenhouse-punching-a-girl-report/\n\nHere's the video.",
"What is truly incredible in this fact pattern is that had G fired at R and hit or killed R in that moment he would be able to argue Self Defense with exactly as much right to the legal protection as R is currently using. \n\n\nG saw R shoot a man, and saw that R was still pointing the firearm at the crowd which included G in that moment. G could have drawn, yelled GUN and shot R all in self defense. \n\n\nSort of makes you question the whole system...both men were in a position to shoot (and potentially kill) another man and put forward what I believe will be a successful self defense argument.",
"That’s fair.",
"Ah I should have read that comment more closely, I thought it referred to the guy in OP's video (grosskreutz). That would be the reason grosskreutz would have tried to stop him.",
"Is? No. That guy's gone. No one in the video was convicted of those crimes, that was another party in the case, who is now dead.",
"It wasn't guns that burned a whole used car lot to the ground",
"So? That was self defence and he's in video telling the cameraman he's walking to the cops to surrender.",
">It started as a hoax, and is now mainstreamed into whitesupremacy:\n\nLmao, no.\n\nHow many \"over 9000 penises\" scenarios is it gonna take for you people to learn?",
"Well ain't this thread a rollercoaster.",
"24 news network lies for ratings?\nColor me shocked.",
"You just join Reddit?",
"The presence of rioters does not grant you, a private citizen, the power to engage them with a weapon",
"No before jumpkick man Kyle was pointing his gun at someone else.\n\nThat’s why jump kick man stepped in to begin with to get him to stop pointing the gun",
"Seriously. A lawyer knows every word that is going to come out of the mouth of a witness that they put on the stand. They wouldn't call them to the stand otherwise. There are outliers of course, but those are exceedingly rare.",
"As long as you're aware that you're wrong and Kyle walks. Yikes hahahaha",
"He already had a knife on him. It wasn’t in the vehicle.",
"I haven’t looked into this at all but I have a question. Right before Rittenhouse shot Grosskreutz, did Rittenhouse shoot someone else in the chest?\n\nEdit: haha I got a downvote for asking a question. Y'all are dipshits.",
"Keep coping",
"You know it’s on video right? We cracked the technology of recording live events some time ago.",
"That section [948.60(3)(c)] says \"This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28\" and 941.28 being for \"Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle\". Was his a SBR? I didn't see anything about it but not following the trial closely",
">I think this \"crossed state lines\" misconception comes from some misinformation that I myself had also fallen victim to\n\nI was also surprised to learn that Grosskreutz lives twice as far from the location of the incidents that night as Rittenhouse.",
"Yes, we must have armed fascists on the streets to defend the Dunkin Donuts!!! Who will protect the precious Dunkin Donuts!!!!!",
"I wonder how man ppl will continue to push the narrative that Rittenhouse was there solely to shoot, kill and murder. Rittenhouse should have been at home,same as everyone else, but for being as young and inexperienced as he is. He showed alot of restraint when being chased and attacked. He could have just mag dumped all around himself out of fear but choose to pull the trigger only when needed. Im sorry ppl died but it was self defense. Period.",
"Actualpublicfreakout, conservative, dumberwithcrumber...\n\nPlenty of right wing subs out there that allow their users to blatantly post racist stuff.\n\nYou're acting like a classic right wing snowflake.",
"Nothing they did was illegal.",
"Did the guns stop that car from burning? Did the car burning kill anyone?\n\nNo?\n\nHuh.",
"That's not for me to decide. I don't know. But I know that anyone that inserts themselves into a bad situation on purpose with a weapon designed for killing large amounts of people; the fact that they then realized after the fact that it may have been a bad idea doesn't somehow give them magical \"innocent victim\" status. His actions were poorly conceived and resulted in terrible results. There are consequences to actions, even if you realize after the fact that they were poor.",
"He closed his eyes, smiled while imagining the scenario play out in his feeble mind. A singular tear rolled down his cheek as he knew from that moment, Kyle was done for!",
"Actually I wouldn’t. But I appreciate your presumption to know anything about me.",
"Here is the priority list for a civilian in an active shooter situation:\n\nFlee, hide, fight. If the first two are 100% not options, then yes, fight for your life.",
"My city had multiple nights of violent unrest last year. We boarded up our business for a few weeks. But I'm sure it was just Tucker and my lying eyes tricking me again. Perfectly peaceful protests, all of them!",
"Neither of those actions are illegal.",
"It takes *the right* official. A random employee at city hall can't take away their liquor license, there a department responsible for that and they may either be disinclined or not staffed/funded to do the necessary work.\n\nThe difference being that it doesn't need to be everyone ignoring enforcement, it just needs to be a few of the right people.",
"Grosskreutz raised his hands and Rittenhouse lowered his gun. He didn't view Grosskreutz as a threat. That should have been the end of it. But Grosskreutz decided to pull a gun and point it at Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz is 100% to blame for his bicep getting \"vaporized.\" Rittenhouse had already proved he wouldn't have otherwise shot Grosskreutz.",
"2 people actually, both were attacking him.",
"Where do you think? It's kind of hard to shoot someone without pointing a gun at them. Key detail is that Kyle was justified for shooting Gaige in self defense.",
"He should not have been there in the first place brandishing a weapon playing commando, let alone, while alone.\n\nBy the time he retreated it was well too late, but I do agree that it fits the criteria of self defense at that point.",
"Gage also helped by saying he was yelling for Huber to stop with the skateboard, then affirming that he believed a skateboard could be a threat to life",
"The other replies aren't correct, as far as I can see. There is no hard and fast law because the individual circumstances will be quite different, but numerous cases have established some precedent. \n\nThere are state variations, but *in general* you ***can*** claim self defense if you are committing a crime - *unless* it was during the commission of a felony or a violent crime. Remember that summary offenses (minor traffic violations and such) are not crimes. Crimes are misdemeanors or felonies.\n\nBurglary, robbery, attempted murder, rape, misdemeanor simple assault = you **cannot** claim self defense. Felonies receive special treatment, and things which may normally be legal are not legal while committing a felony.\n\nMisdemeanor disorderly conduct, misdemeanor tresspassing, jaywalking (not a crime), etc = you **can** claim self defense.",
"That’s my take as well. When this thing originally happened and I saw the video of a dude running after Rittenhouse trying to beat him with a skateboard my first thought was: “Why are you trying to attack the guy with a rifle with a skateboard?”",
"Except he didn’t instigate the original fight. But also, even if what you said was true(it isn’t, it’s a blatant lie) committing a crime doesn’t mean you can no longer defend yourself. They were attempting to kill him as he was making his way towards actual law enforcement. He had every right to defend himself from these people attacking him.",
"No. You fetus. \nKyle was running to the police. \nThe mob pursued and threatened him based on hearsay and mob mentality. \n\nHe’s in fear for his life. \nTrips and falls. Mob descends. \n\nHe shoots those people who threatened him and no one else. Once the threat was over, he carried on. \n\nThey fucked around. They found out. \nThe kid will walk and that will be justice served.",
"It's not an attack when they are legally allowed to detain you...",
">Well he had just shot and killed someone.\n\nPrime example of whats wrong with the lefties these days. You are saying that Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse because he had just killed someone? Was that in a videogame before going out that night or something? \n\nRosenbaum was the first 'victim' of the night, and had chased Rittenhouse with what very much looked like intent to cause harm. Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum in a clear act of self defense which then caused more of the rioters to chase down Kyle. \n\nIts all on video dude.",
"He killed them. He didnt murder them. Those are 2 different things",
"Please point to “all” evidence you say there is that was presented by the prosecution that indicates that the shooting of Rosenbaum was premeditated",
"He should be given life, sorry, but you don't show up to a protest you don't agree with with a rifle unless you're trying to start shit.",
"I BELEIVE IT MEAN \"INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.\"\n\nEdit: caps lock was on. disregard the all caps.",
"I mean, the statute is clear, they can prove he thought he was defending himself, but they can't prove he did so according to the guidelines laid out in the statute.",
"Rittenhouse is a fucking moron and deserves the shit situation he's in, but yeah, the media reporting of this is just retarded. I mean, you can totally tell the truth and still make Rittenhouse look bad. Rittenhouse doesn't need any help with that...",
"That's what courts and trials are for. When people are reasonable, or when things are clear, things get settled well in advance of a trial. The only reason this trial is happening is because if the prosecutors did what they would normally do with a case this bad they'd be crucified. So, you bring it to trial, everyone gets a nice long look at the turd, and a jury gets to make the call.",
"What? They are reporting what he testified, they are saying what he said when the prosecution was questioning him.\n\nFor the NPR article, what's wrong with the headline \"Gaige Grosskreutz, shot by Rittenhouse in Kenosha, takes the stand at his trial\"? They also said \"In cross-examination, they emphasized Grosskreutz's Glock pistol — which was in his hand at the moment Rittenhouse shot him — and proximity to Rittenhouse, just about 3 feet, at the time of the shooting. Grosskreutz said he was not intentionally pointing the weapon at Rittenhouse\"\n\nIn the MSN article: \"Under cross-examination Monday, defense lawyer Corey Chirafisi accused Grosskreutz of downplaying, in early police interviews, the fact that he was armed the moment Rittenhouse shot him\"",
"You're easily frightened! It removes self-defense from someone who drives across state lines with a powerful rifle and weapon of war to intentionally insert himself into a situation he knows to likely be violent. That's nothing like any of your analogies.",
"If someone falls down and you move toward him, you’re advancing on him, but not chasing him. \n\nIt doesn’t matter, so I don’t see the reason to put “chasing” in quotes when that’s not what the testimony was. You don’t get to just make up what people said during the trial. Several iterations of that turn into a distorted story.",
"So he was the first to point a gun at someone, and the first to shoot one?",
"What other people were charged with Murder that night? I'll wait.",
"If he did attack them then it would be more similar to Rittenhouse's first shooting where they say the guy attempted to get his gun and Rittenhouse shot him. Are you saying that you can't shoot people if they try to take your guns?",
"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VpTW2AJE9MQ\n\nAt 19:45",
"It's the same exact argument in relation to COVID deaths. He died of pneumonia, *not* COVID!",
"Maybe he should, maybe he shouldn't. I want a court to determine that based on a close reading of the evidence, not Reddit.",
"Also, important for context, Kyle had already shot two other people at the time this occured. This guy ran towards the shooting, then pulled on Kyle and Kyle shot him.",
"I always thought the issue was that a minor crossed state lines with a rifle and started shooting people while playing big boy cop? I would imagine anyone who saw a kid running around like an active shooter who had a gun would pull it. I wonder if he fired and killed Rittenhouse if the right would defend him instead.",
"Protecting yourself and your community doesn't make you a vigilante. You're allowed to do it. Their presence there was a deterrent, that's all. That's not vigilantes. Unless ofc you support burning down minority owned businesses, racist. That's who Kyle was supporting from these out of town white instigators.",
"Only NPR? The entire mainstream news media apart from conservative leaning outlets all painted Rittenhouse as a white supremacist terrorist.\n\nHe's going to be a lot richer from all the defamation suits after this trial.",
"US has no peers",
"Let me guess, police walking around say an airport with a rifle must mean they're looking to kill someone, right?",
"The only law he broke likely is straw purchase of a firearm (which, as far as I know, has been established solely in fact but he has not been charged with) and possibly an open carry violation, because Wisconsin's open carry laws are a bit ~~sketchy~~ non-concise, it seems like he probably was only allowed to carry the rifle if he was hunting but I don't think exhaustively lists this. I'm not aware of any other tertiary crimes that he committed; certainly not 'a bunch of laws'",
"\"DAE Both sidez bad?\"",
"Kyle had just shot two people in front of him, is why he raised his hands",
">He shot this guy in the arm after murdering two other people. The hell is wrong with you?\n\nBoth of which attacked him. It's filmed from multiple angles, as well as an infrared drone.",
"No, the answer is to leave. You're not a hero. You're not going to wrestle a gun out of someones hand and save the day. You will get shot and die.\n\nLeave the situation.\n\nI can't believe I have to argue this on this thread of all things, where people actually tried what you were suggesting and *actually died*",
"You're going to be very disappointed soon.",
"> No, he pointed the gun at Kyle,\n\nI never said he didn't and that doesn't change anything but bolster Rittenhouse's self-defense claim.",
"When he tripped he pointed his gun at someone, which is why he got attacked",
"Haha it actually is. I was watching shark tank, and there was an app that helped you fight tickets based off spelling errors and what not. One of the thing he said was parking tickets are one of the most regressive forms of taxation.",
"Get your facts straight - the video was taken after the Kenosha riot and there were several people fighting. The DA also declined to press any charges.",
"Sure the video(s) exonerates Kyle of all charges.",
"I must have missed the part of their comment where they said the jury is *supposed* to factor in the prosecution's body language",
"Fortunately for you, anecdotal evidence is the least valuable kind. Studies took place over the protests and concluded they were peaceful outside of outside instigators. So just like if you lived in my bathroom, you'd think I was always on the toilet, your limited perspective fails to graps the whole situation.",
"Why should he not have been there? Why should he not have been putting out fires in the city he worked in?",
"That's some major bias reasoning you got there. Lumping everyone together as mob to further justify your preferred outcome.",
"Keep the salt flowing 😋",
"You keep repeating the same \"truthiness\" bullshit that all the bleeding hearts keep repeating\n\nthis is not a trial about whether or not he should have been there\n\nIt is a trial about: did he shoot those people in self defence? This is about the facts surrounding that and that only. I don't understand why it's so hard for people like you to understand this. I hope you never serve on a jury.",
"I said should, not that he's going to. I already know he isn't going to get anything major, it's pretty obvious.",
"Wrong try again",
"I think that is $10k max and 3 months, which he might have served.",
"The first guy threatened to kill him, and charged him and tried to take his rifle with what anyone would perceive to be that in mind. The other guy tried to splatter his skull with a skateboard. Pretty clear self defence in both cases, and especially after what we heard from the prosecution and it’s witnesses",
"Wrong. Kyle shot the pedo in self defence, then is on video telling Grosskreutz he's going to the police to surrender. He's completely doing things by the books the entire time. The mob then chased him as he was trying to disengage and leave the situation, and then tried to kill him again. Completely justified",
"Okay but legally when am I safe? Where's the line? Nobody seems to understand this. it's not about what you should do or what's smart to do. It's about legality after the fact. When does it become illegal for someone to shoot me if they're scared? All you are arguing for a legal precedent that is overwhelmingly scary.",
"Lol, you should alert the prosecution, they haven’t brought up that genius theory",
"legality=/=morality. The guy is garbage that doesn't mean what he did was illegal.",
"Rosenbaum was the first person to be shot (After trying to take Kyle's gun), not the third. Get the facts correct if you are going to play devil's advocate",
"Misleading on purpose to manufacture a narrative. Same happened on /r/pics last night. I'm not taking the time, but I would be interested in an account analysis of all commenters in this thread and the /r/pics thread.",
">17 year old kid literally shows up to a protest completely unrelated to himself\n\nIt's in the city he works in and where he knows lots of people.\n\n>in a different city\n\nThe city he works in.\n\n>with a loaded weapon \n\nThis part is true. It would have been stupid not to load it as we can see.\n\n>that he obtained illegally\n\nThis is flatly false.\n\n>So he could intimidate (and ultimately kill) protestors. \n\nNo evidence of this at all. I don't think the guy who was screaming n***** at people and lighting dumpsters on fire was there for the BLM protest either, he was just there for the riot. He killed zero protesters.\n\n>He didn't drive out there so he could buy some ice cream, \n\nCorrect all the ice cream shops were closed due to rioting.\n\n>minding his own business until this guy pulled a gun on him.\n\nTrue he was putting out fires and running away from assailants.\n\n>Rittenhouse shot someone else right in front of him moments earlier.\n\nWho hit him first. That's called self defense, you might have heard of it.",
"A) The legality of Rittenhouse having a gun is in dispute and depends on statutory interpretation (because you can open carry under 18 under some circumstances in WI) \n\n\nB) I believe Grosskeutz didn't have an 'expired' licensce, but a revoked one (for a felony offense) - which is worse than just not having one",
"Yeah because you were definitely talking about a situation where you are cornered by an active shooter and have no choice but to fight or die that whole time. That's such a desperate attempt to avoid admitting your dumbshit point is dumb as shit. \n\nNo, you were having a little nerd fantasy about combat rolling around school corridors and choking out masked goons like you live in an action movie. Life isn't a movie son, if you try to apprehend an active shooter there's about a 99% chance you're getting shot and bleeding out alone regretting the absolutely retarded decision that brought you to that point.",
"What do you think a lynching is? This one was just unsuccessful. \n\n>Do you think it would have been a more fair outcome if this guy or someone else would have just put one in the bank of his head the second he shot and killed someone?\n\nNo, because he was literally running away from the first guy he shot. Only when he couldn't run away any longer did Rittenhouse shoot they guy at very close range to stop his attack. And after which he straight tried to turn himself into police. It's all on video. You say that like he wasn't justified in shooting the first guy. Which this court case will determine if he was, not you.",
"I mean, if I had a legally obtained concealed carry and I saw someone coming towards the protest with a long gun, I would have thought he was going to shoot up the protest too",
"Didn't say it was.",
"Did the shot bicep guy get any charges though? He would be guilty of the same type of thing, and I hate when they are not consistent.",
"Because of where the gun was pointed? If Gaige had shot Rittenhouse, you'd be supporting him instead, since he would have been defending himself from Rittenhouse's gun that was pointed at him?\n\nEdit: I guess choosing which armed vigilante to support can be difficult.",
"Kyle was an active shooter at this point already. Not sure how you can say he was acting in self defence when he was the one killing and shooting people",
"Would it be self defense if Grosskreutz shot and killed Rittenhouse?",
"Strange how you want white, pedophile, wife beating out of town agitators (lived further away than Kyle who is in kenosha multiple times a week and lives 20 minutes away) to burn minority owned businesses for political reasons, but the people standing up to that are fascists. You need to reevaluate",
"Not an SBR",
"You live in Kansas City. Have a mother and father. Enjoy chik fil a (of course) and woodworking. You also live in an alternate political reality where everyone on the left is a criminal and everyone in your party is an angel and innocent children who deserve pardons for sex trafficking minors right? No equal justice for both parties, just the left. Because equal justice for both parties would mean you ACTUALLY support law and order which you obviously don't.",
"They didn’t want him to lie, why would they? That would hurt their case if he said otherwise",
"I believe the bar was in Wisconsin. I only have a [google search](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Wisconsin), but it seems you can drink with your parents if you're 18.",
"Yup, this is something that annoys me every time I read it. Rittenhouse lived closer to Kenosha than any of the three people he shot. The press likes to make it seem like Rittenhouse was an outsider to the area, but he lived less than 20 miles away in IL. I live in IL, about 20 miles from St. Louis, MO. What do you think I say when people ask me where I live? I say \"we're from the Saint Louis area.\" I guess that makes me an outsider to people living in Saint Louis.",
"Genuinely curious and admittedly I haven't been following the case; will the issue of crossing state lines & carrying a rifle (illegally as far as I'm aware) be looked at in a separate case? Is the ongoing case purely looking at the incident, and its likely he will be back in court on other charges later?",
"No. It doesn’t. Keep fucking that chicken, though.",
"What? The video was taken July 1st. The Kenosha protest happened late August.\n\nLast I checked, July comes before August.",
"Don't attack people and you won't have a gun pointed at you, it's not a hard thing to comprehend.",
"He did, he lied like three times until the defense went \"Come on, we can literally see it in the photo and this video. Let's stop bullshitting\"",
"I mean to a extent yes you are correct. To join the military at 17 it’s also takes the additional signature of your parents or legal guardian to allow you to be sent off to war.",
"The ratio 😏",
"Stupid situations will require stupid solutions.",
"You're a garbage sack",
"Who cares if his lunge was due to getting shot. How.about don't be stupid and chase someone with a gun??",
"He is happy as hell he got to kill some people. He put himself in a situation where he could claim self defense and will get to spend the rest of his life as a right wing talking head without ever doing anything for society.",
"So NPR is right then because they reported it accurately.\n\n> \"In three hours of dramatic testimony Monday, **Grosskreutz, 27, acknowledged** that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, **but said** that his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him and that he feared for his life.\"\n\nAnd \n\n> \"In cross-examination, they emphasized Grosskreutz's Glock pistol — which was in his hand at the moment Rittenhouse shot him — and proximity to Rittenhouse, just about 3 feet, at the time of the shooting. **Grosskreutz said he was not intentionally pointing the weapon at Rittenhouse.**\"\n\nSo what's the issue?",
"I think he will for political reasons.",
"He shot this guy in the arm after killing two people who were attacking him. These are the facts that have been presented in this case, but you seem to be desperately gripping to your notions about Kyle without regard for reality.",
"Thank you for being the voice of reason here.",
"Course not. The ADA, Mayor and Investigator are all related. Of course they're not going to arrest someone who attacked Kyle unprovoked with an illegally concealed firearm",
"You seem very invested in pushing a fake narrative. Who's paying you?",
"He was an active shooter and a terrorist. Sadly Grosskreutz wasn't so trigger happy as the actual murderer.",
"Because on reddit you are either a Hitler youth neonazi if you think Rittenhouse shot in self defence or you are ANTIFA liberal terrorist scum if you think he didn't\n\nNo in between. Because Reddit is full of dumb as shit teenagers who let emotion fuel their opinions.",
"Incorrect. Watch the trial. Grosskreutz never said he was going to kill him and even if he did it would have been self defense.",
"Hahahaha you posted normiecon subs and called them white supremacists. You're delusional. Any remotely right wing (not center right) subs get banned",
"I feel like I used to be “on the left” due to my political beliefs. \n\nSomehow I ended up on the right because I felt like all of my leftist friends were ideologically driven but jobs who couldn’t see reality.",
"I think I can easily NOT shoot someone in the back. I'm pretty accurate out to at least 300m, so I yeah. You would probably lose that challenge.",
"Yeah but when does legality make a difference? You clearly don't even know what I'm arguing about. It's not about some super hero fantasy. It's about what matters in a court of law. You're so busy trying to call someone names that you don't even get the point of the argument. If the shooter can't shoot me cause he's scared and that's murder it shouldn't matter whether I'm hiding in a closet or if I'm out in the open. The law shouldn't change but can't change on a case by case basis. I know your type loves it too \"rule for thee not for me\" but it has to have a standard. And that standard is everything here. You don't even get the argument you're too busy foaming at the mouth. You don't even care about what really matters here. \n\nAnd I'm not your son. You're some random internet troll who probably jerks it to his own comment section.",
"Cope more",
"By running towards them, and then fake-surrendering? 🤡",
"> retaliation.\n\nInteresting that you pick this word, as retaliation literally means \"to return an attack\" and not \"To murder a person who is fleeing\"",
"Everyone he shot or shot at was attacking him first, every single one.",
"Kyle joined up with a terrorist organization. They were brandishing guns and firing at people at protests around the country. This guy, even in the worst case, was stopping an armed terrorist.",
">First off, you should probably go look and see how far away Antioch is away from the state line. I lived in the area. It's maybe a mile away. So no point in making it sound like this was some sort of trek,\n\nIt's more about the fact that when you cross a state line it's about two things:\n\n1. The laws are completely different where you're going.\n2. Often federal law has more things or different things to say about your actions than either your source or destination jurisdictions.\n\nIt doesn't matter if you travel five feet or 500 miles, when you cross a state border you immediately up the stakes because the of the above reasons.\n\n>Fourth, \"Does Wild West law apply and whoever wins the gunfight is the one in the right?\" obviously is absurd. It's about self-defense. It's actually spelled out fairly clearly in law, which I will let you look up and is almost certainly quoted around here a dozen times.\n\nWhy does it only go one way? If you were confronted with someone bearing arms that has no right to do so, would you not think you were in danger? This is part of the issue with self defense laws. Both of them were in the commission of a crime, so how is it we're going to look at Rittenhouse and say he's OK to use self defense but no one else is, despite him waving around an illegal firearm?\n\nPart of the responsibility here with self defense laws is that you not be committing a crime that could reasonably be thought to be aggressive towards someone else (to allay someone else's silly jaywalking example above). Kyle had *no* business being there, he brought himself to the violence, acquired a gun he couldn't legally possess, and started walking around like Walker Texas Ranger. Seriously? This is our standard for self defense now?\n\nThis is militia level activity and it's banned in every state. Pretty hard to argue self defense when you instigate the situation, wave around your rifle, and then cry about people trying to gun you down. No shit sherlock. You stirred it up.",
"They want someone to be close to death before we're allowed to defend ourselves.",
"Oooh are we just making stuff up now? That's fun! Personally I think it's good the Kyle uncovered the alien invaders from Mars. Sadly due to their Martian biology they're still alive so he had to meet up with the underground lizard people to learn the proper methods of hunting martians so he can become a true Martian man hunter.",
"It would if Grosskreutz was the one on trial.",
"Sure, but based on the video and the court trial so far he should walk",
"Yes a child with a gun in a riot zone. What could possibly go wrong?",
"It shouldn't be partisan.\nI'm very left leaning and I think this guy should walk.\n\nHe's an idiot, an asshole, and instigator, and probably got his rocks off trying to serve \"justice\"\n\nThat doesn't mean what he did was illegal, nor does it mean he needs to go to jail. The law doesn't determine morality, it's not illegal to be a dickhead. He's going to walk. How people can't see that is beyond me. Emotions don't belong in bringing justice.",
"No it doesn't because Grosskreutz engaged Kyle.",
"He pointed the gun before he was attacked",
"> Not true, intent matters. If prosecutors could prove Rittenhouse came there with the intent to shoot protestors, self-defense doesn't apply.\n\nGood luck with that. Unless the prosecution can get someone to admit intent directly or unless they can find something recorded or in writing of the accused stating their intent, then it's basically impossible to prove intent beyond the shadow of a doubt.",
"You have never been in a life or death situation and likely have never fired a gun either",
"One of wikipedias founders said its been taken over by liberals",
">Considering that NPR published an article stating that Grosskreutz had his arms raised when Kyle shot him, yes. They wanted him to lie.\n\nLet me just repeat exactly what you wrote here and you tell me whether it makes any sense. NPR published one article which mischaracterized that moment in the altercation. And because of that, you're saying that's proof the his lawyers wanted him to lie. You know what their legal strategy was, because of the NPR article. Is that right? Did I properly recite back to you exactly what you meant?",
"Wrong. \n\nThe person who buys the gun for the purchase is guilty of a felony. Not the person they buy it for. \n\nSays it right in Wisconsin state law. \n\nI'm not your friend. Do the bare minimum level of research before you sprout your bullshit. \n\n\nSo once again, YOURE WRONG. TRY AGAIN",
"It goes to show that the current political narratives and the tactics employed by both political sides of just mudslinging and name calling doesn’t actually change minds, just makes people dig in further.",
"But there was a lead up to the falling down",
"But I'm still right. What does that say about you?",
"Your bias is showing.\n\nI watched inordinate parts of the Zimmerman trial. 911 also asked Zimmerman where Martin was, so Zimmerman looked for him (not that you're under any obligation to do what a 911 operator tells you to do). Zimmerman may have followed Martin for a short period, but that doesn't make you an aggressor. By all accounts, Martin was the aggressor - even Martin's own friend (cousin?) testified that Martin called Zimmerman a \"cracker\" before Martin attacked him.\n\nIn case you want to attack me personally, bear in mind Zimmerman was acquitted by a unanimous jury.",
"They had to have a trial. The media had whipped up such an insane frenzy that if they didn't have a trial they would have had even more riots. Anyone with eyes knew that this trial was going to go in Kyle's favor for all but maybe reckless endangerment, and even that has a slim chance of sticking.\n\nThey brought these people out so the public can see the dipshit who got shot in the arm say it was his own fault that that happened.",
"Lol thats the amazing part here. \n\nSo Rittenhouse is running around with a weapon openly carried all night, but if you draw a weapon near him then he's allowed to shoot you? Ok guys.",
"Yeah this whole thing was a waste of time and media companies are still running with whatever slant they want. This only makes things worse.",
"In the chaos of this situation, both seem to have good justifications for self defense.",
"Self-defense is not a reasonable stance when you created or exacerbated the situation. He clearly escalated the situation until he could someone to react in a way that would give him the veil of self-defense when he shot them. He got what he wanted, he got to play soldier and shoot people. And he did so in a way that he was able to do it publicly and pretend to walk a thin line of reasonability while still getting his social status points with the right-wing fringe for \"standing up\" to those uppity animal black folk.",
"Absolutely this is the truth - the caveat being *that is not what this case is being decided on*. The case is being decided on the facts of self-defence alone. Not any of Kyle's terrible tree of decisions leading up to the events putting him on the street.",
"He told the truth? HOW DARE HE!??!",
"100% of the problem is the media and politicians lie and exacerbate issues that don’t require us to riot and burn down our own communities which then prompts ppl to play hero and have stupid shit like this be the outcome.",
"It would be on brand for Rosenbaum to be talking about embracing minors.",
"Once again leftists completely unable to engage with reality and resort to emotional appeals.",
"I said \"seems\" like because I don't know for certain what was in Rosenbaum's mind at the time, and there may be more relevant information I am not aware of. But it's not a narrative that Rosenbaum was super aggressive, it is literally in the video at the time stamp I linked. And to be clear, I think Rittenhouse is a shitty person, and I think carrying an AR into a volatile situation like Kenosha that night was incredibly stupid. None of that means he was not allowed to defend himself if he felt his life was in danger from Rosenbaum and the others. That's why the incident is at trial right now to determine if he was acting in self defense, and neither your nor my opinion really matter in the end.",
"The shot to the back was as rosembaum lunged forward to grab Kyle's gun",
"Your crusade to paint this idiot as anything more than a murderous little troll is disgusting",
"No.",
"He was checking his phone",
"He did lie initially until the defense pulled up a video and freeze frame of him pointing the pistol at Rittenhouse before being shot. They then repeated the question and he was essentially forced to tell the truth under oath.",
"No. \nHe was being followed. \nHe was alone. The mob was pursuing him. \n\nThere was no misunderstanding. \nHe didn’t suddenly invite an attack by pouting his gun after tripping. \n\nThe mob caught up with him at first opportunity and the early birds all got lead salads.\n\nNone of those people had to involve themselves and they would still be alive if they didn’t. \n\nThey mob saw nothing first hand. \nThey based their choices on group think and assumptions and acted accordingly. \n\nKyle made HIS choices based on immediate and obvious physical threat to his person. \n\nThat’s the difference.",
"Well that obviously makes sense from a gun wielding point of view, but that doesn't necessarily mean the courts will decide this way.",
"\"she wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't gone to the bar that night\". You're victim blaming right now.",
"The first guy he “murdered” chased him after saying he would kill him and then tried to take his gun from him.\n\nThe second guy he “murdered” hit him in the head with a skateboard and even Grosskreutz stated he was concerned Kyle would have serious head trauma from being struck with the skateboard and told the guy to stop.\n\nThey have done a very good job arguing this was self defense.",
"Yeah its a weird situation with this one.",
"Good catch! And you’re absolutely right, you definitely can drink in Wisconsin with parental supervision. Clears up all the confusion I had. Carry on your way stranger.",
"Do you not want the news to report what a witness at the trial said? They clearly said that those are his words. And in the article.\n\n> In cross-examination, they emphasized Grosskreutz's Glock pistol — which was in his hand at the moment Rittenhouse shot him — and proximity to Rittenhouse, just about 3 feet, at the time of the shooting. Grosskreutz said he was not intentionally pointing the weapon at Rittenhouse.",
"Says a bunch of accounts who post on pro gun and pro crypto subs. Hide it better, moron.",
"They’re clearly doing it for aggressive appearances at least to keep people in line?\n\nOpen carrying a gun is an aggressive action. This isn’t really a debatable point.",
"You should not be a vigilante in general and you can avoid the situation entirely.",
"Pretty sure it came out that he was defending his sister or something there, either way the DA didn’t press charges",
"Not in Wisconsin, at least",
"20 second shaky cam vids from /pol/ and 40 second clips of court cases without context are not the \"video evidence\" you think they are. When you put the whole timeline of events in order, its pretty obvious that he went there with the intent of fucking shit up, and got what he wanted.\n\nShowing up to an event and waving a gun around, then claiming \"self defense\" when people try to stop you, is just so asinine. Its like the whole \"I'm not touching you\" game children play to pick on each other, but with deadly consequences. \n\n\n \n\\>>> It wouldn't have mattered if they were pedophiles or saints \n\n\nThen why did you even bring it up in the first place?",
"Prosecuting fascist militia wannabees who get people killed because they want to play soldier isn't government overreach.",
"Then why was he pointing a loaded gun at Kyle, one he was illegally concealed carrying?",
"hahahahahhah get fucked dude gg",
"> Read the article, that's not what NPR said \n\nTHat's LITERALLY what NPR said.",
">If he did attack them\n\nI've seen the video, Arbery did attack them, and he was justified in doing so (self-defense). It may not have been the best decision seeing as it got him killed, but he was still justified in doing so. The situation is also similar to Kyle's in that the rednecks believed he was running from a crime and were giving chase. \n\n\n>Are you saying that you can't shoot people if they try to take your guns?\n\nNo. I was merely pointing out what the rednecks are claiming as their defense. I'm saying you can't apprehend someone on the justification \"I think they just committed a crime.\" That's kidnapping and people are justified in defending themselves from it. Our country has a horrific history of mobs of people \"thinking\" that someone needed to be apprehended, and you are under no obligation to surrender to crowds of angry people.",
"> But how then can a good guy with a gun stop a bad guy with a gun?\n\nThey can; the issue in this case is that someone shot at or near Kyle with *no provocation* which escalated the issue and caused 2 others to die. There was no good guy or bad guy until someone **forced** someone to become either of those archetypes.",
"Fucking lord. It's about legality. It's about legality. It's about legality. It's about court precedent.",
"Unfortunately for you I'm just stating the facts of the case. Reality is not on your side.",
"I think people are reacting the way they are because the logical conclusion is so wild.\n\nIt’s a tacit endorsement of political violence. Bring a gun somewhere, instigate a confrontation, face no consequences, and become a social media darling to one narrow subculture. There are only benefits for the fringe elements.\n\nAnd the rest of us are paying for it.",
"In this situation, no, I don’t believe him pointing his gun was provoking them. And he can testify if he wants to, but he is certainly not obligated to.",
"This is not whataboutism, because both the rioters and the anti-rioters were directly involved. It's possible for both of them to be wrong. Neither should have been there.",
"Kyle did backdown though. He was attacked and someone tried to turn his rifle on him, after telling him repeatedly he was going to steal the gun and empty the magazine into him, and he killed the guy. He then tried to run to the police, there is literally a video of him being asked \"Where you running\" and he told them he was turning himself into the police.\n\nGaige and jump kick man chased him down to try and kill him and got shot in the aftermath.",
"This story has by far been the most unfaithful reporting from left leaning media outlets in recent times and its been pretty disappointing to see.",
"Because Kyle was pointing a loaded gun at him, one he illegally carried.",
"Zimmerman didnt chase martin. The dispatcher told him not to follow him and zimmerman said ok and went back to his car. He was gonna meet the responding officer there.",
"Dude calm down. Watch the videos from the event and then start voicing your opinion.",
"So intervening in a fight shows \"a history of violence?\" Where is the proof he had \"fantasies of shooting protestors?\" Still waiting on that one.\n\nThe dude is wearing the same clothes he wore earlier in the day when he was scrubbing graffiti off of the high school - a t shirt and pants. Grosskreutz tried to link him to Boogaloo Boys but when questioned about what that means he replied guys wearing body armor, helmets, chest rigs, camo - known of which Rittenhouse was wearing.",
"Ok, lightbulb moment! “The 2 Assholes” although rudimentary, absolutely describes almost every significant problem I’ve ever had with another human and unfortunately, there’s been a lot, especially lately. While, corny as it sounds, this kind of changed my life today, I never saw myself as one of the assholes, but alas, you’re right, by virtue of me refusing to relent, i am, of course, one of the assholes. Going forward, I will try to be much less of an asshole and hopefully the recent trail of life “tragedies” I’ve endured (caused) will cease.",
"How many bodies get to pile up from me making erratic decisions before it's no longer reasonable self-defense? \n\nHe shouldn't have been there, he shouldn't have been part of a militia, he shouldn't have fled the scene after his initial self-defense, and he shouldn't have brandished his firearm the entire time. \n\nIt's unreasonable of him to believe the people around him can't see reason if he simply stood around where he should rosenbaum explained it was self-defense. His entire defense relies on dehumanizing all of the protesters around him.",
"It’s rather pathetic how much you want to suck off a 17 year old Murderer.",
"Yes a woman in the bar is the same as a child carrying a gun into a warzone. You're a retard.",
"he was the only one that would be held accountable for lying in court. the media lies openly",
"> What the prosecutors might focus on is that Kyle Rittenhouse, by obtaining a firearm he was not legally allowed to be in possession of and by crossing state lines and by inserting himself into what he attested to be (so he believed) a potentially volatile situation, then the self-defense argument is moot.\n\nThis is absolutely not the case, the judge has already said that all of these are irrelevant factors in the case and deciding whether or not Kyle acted in self defence.",
"Active shooter training says to do these three things in this order. If you cannot do the highest thing, prepare to do the next best thing:\n\n1 run\n\n2. Hide\n\n3. Fight\n\nIf your only option is #3, then you could find yourself in this situation.",
"You just proved yourself wrong. Good job.",
"Yes… it’s a mob.\n\nThe group of people attacking Kyle acted as a group based on ideology and assumed group identity. \n\nKyle responded to the group based on immediate and explicit threat to his physical body. \n\nThey made the mistake. Not him. \n\nIt is unfortunate that they put him in a spot where he felt he had to kill someone in order to survive the night. They made that decision, not him. \n\nHaving seen or known nothing first hand, they shouldn’t have interacted with him. \n\nThey made a series of bad choices and Kyle responded correctly when all other options were taken from him.",
"Nah I left. I had a show to attend with my father I rarely see and her crazy ass wasn’t going to prevent that. The only downside being I was not able to give a statement or receive a case number to file for a PPO.",
"pfffftttt bahahahahahahaahahahaha\n\nNPR is morally bankrupt might be the funniest/dumbest thing i've ever heard someone say. of course it's from some libertarian meme sub, too. libertarians are so silly.",
"Yea, but your honesty and reason here don't fit their narrative that NPR and the rest of the media is EVIL.",
"Lol he's going to get absolutely fucked by the civil suits that follow this.",
"You won’t get a straight answer here. People wear their political views on their shoulder and bend reality to whatever they want. Look up the video evidence of what happened theres a bunch. Then make up your own mind about it. Im pretty damn independent but all the evidence that i have seen, clearly shows self defence. Others can squabble about him bringing a gun in the first place. Kyle is interviewed before this incident about him carrying a gun. He tells the interviewer why he’s there( to protect businesses being burned to the ground by rioters, personal protection etc. and helping ppl injured throughout the madness. He had a med kit on him and was attending to injuries before this went down.) i don’t see a murderer. I see a courageous kid trying to help ppl that shouldn’t have even had to been there in the first place. He probably was inspired by political views to take action when nothing was being done by police. He probably felt an obligation to help where there wasn’t any to be found. Its incredible that there is never any mention of property damage by these criminal rioters. If your neighborhood is being destroyed who would you rather be out there? The rioters in masks acting straight out of the purge, or this kid who looks to be trying to help out. Thats my view anyway. Take a look at all the evidence before forming an opinion though.",
"As I've mentioned elsewhere, I haven't paid any attention to the trial but that does seem to be the most common attitude.",
"The whole situation is messed up where either person could've legally shot the other. That's one of the things I want people to take from this.",
">This is flatly false.\n\nHe's 17, by definition he obtained it illegally.\n\nWatching your dumpster-fire of a country from afar is fascinating. The fact is he showed up to a different city to counter protest with a loaded weapon and attempted to intimidate people. He ended up killing multiple people who didn't want to bow down to some dipshit with a power fantasy. \n\nHad he stayed home those people would still be alive. People have the right to protest, showing up with a gun in an attempt to escalate things isn't helping anyone.",
"He did not draw a legal firearm.",
"> Nothing of value lost.\n\nSaying this about your political enemies shows a lot about your character and warped view on reality. So much for the 'all lives matter' crowd.",
"Seems we’re saying the saying thing in different manners… anyways OP pointed out he was in Wisconsin not Illinois, which has some of the loosest drinking laws in the country. So I’m no longer concerned or confused. Nice argument, hope you have a good one.",
"He pointed his gun at people who were actively attacking him you dumb shit",
"He went there with a gun to shoot people and they attempted to prevent that and failed. Rotten house went there to murder.",
"So we get to kill anyone if someone else shouts they just shot someone and we sincerely believe that? That sounds like a messy situation just waiting to happen.",
"Well assuming you’re not blowing smoke then mad respect to you too, but I know damn well the average person isn’t doing a whole lot of “thinking” in a situation where they genuinely fear for their own life so much that they’re resorting to shooting, with the intent of killing, the aggressor.",
"how was kyle an instigator?",
"So the concept of burying the lede is that you make your headline a side part of the story and don’t mention the bombshell until late in the article when most people have stopped reading beyond the first couple sentences if they even get that far. You still report it so no one can accuse you of censorship but it’s an age old journalism tactic to maintain “the narrative” while still saving face.",
"Oh, you're not conservative, but full blown nazi. My fault, there's so much overlap these days. I just named subreddits that openly celebrate unarmed black people getting killed, but even that's apparently too tame for you.",
"> Pulling a gun on someone shooting people is not a crime\n\nWell, that's not the question here. The question is whether *Rittenhouse's* shootings were a crime. Shooting someone who's pointing a gun at you could definitely be argued as self-defense, even if they're pointing a gun at you because of your actions.\n\nOf course, in this sort of situation, in the heat of the moment, it's next to impossible for anyone to tell if the guy with the gun is defending themself or if they're an active shooter. IMO, people bringing guns to this sort of stand-off makes *everyone* less safe.",
"Right, which makes every single person who chased him down after he ran away from the shooting scene and tried to subdue him well within their rights.",
"Cases aren't brought based on the guilt or innocence of the defendant, as they are the means by which that determination is made. The case should have been brought if the prosecution thought it was *possible* Rittenhouse was guilty, which they clearly did.",
"Whether Kyle carried illegally is still not decided by a court of law.\n\nKyle only pointed a gun at Grosskreutz after he reached for his gun to shoot Kyle first.\n\nYou're 0-2 for facts",
"I love how people are using this trial as like a measurement for their own pathetic lives and beliefs.",
"Absolutely true. I'm guilty of this on occasion too. Flaw of human nature that requires a lot of forethought to prevent.",
"So you're mad that NPR accurately reported what a witness said? I'm confused.",
"I mean Rittenhouse had just shot two people in front of him.\n\nIt makes sense the way he acted",
"I agree, but it's weird seeing people act like someone facepalming/checking their phone is seemingly more important than the actual info presented.",
"Are Americans still dumb enough to look at all this, and genuinely, without laughing at how preposterous they sound, say that everyone should own guns, and having AR15s to defend themselves will lead to *less* senseless gun violence?",
"Can I DM you after the trial? :)",
"> Rittenhouse had a gun pointed at him by a person whom he reasonably believed wished to maim or kill him. And he responded to that threat. \n\nI think this point is being made, inadvertently, by the prosecutions witnesses and it's becoming more apparent everyday.",
"https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/\n\nyes, found the video of the dc cops 'inviting' them in by letting them smash in the windows of locked doors",
"Apparently \"manslaughter\" is not a valid charge in Wisconsin.\n\nIt was removed and replaced by \"second degree intentional homicide\". The difference appears to be \n\n> can prove that you caused the death of a person with the intent to kill that person or another person.\n\nManslaughter is \n\n> the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder\n\nIn other words, one is *you killed someone intentionally but not pre-planned* while the other is *you killed someone unintentionally*.\n\nI freely admit I have no legal knowledge that can't be googled, but manslaughter looks like it'd be a lot easier to convict someone for.",
"Do you have a link?",
">Okay but the crowd doesn't know that\n\nThe crowd can see him running away and not shooting anyone until they attack him. They can also deduce that he's running towards the police.\n\nSure, someone can shout \"that guy is Osama bin laden and he has a suicide vest on!!\" And you could then shoot the guy. But you'd still be wrong, and an idiot.",
">Rittenhouse and this wannabe militia group of his are 100% responsible for this shooting on the grounds that they antagonized the situation to where it go to this point. \n\nThis is my biggest issue with this as well. People only looking at it as a pure self defense situation as if Rittenhouse was totally innocent and just peacefully looking to help some poor injured people, versus blatant racism are missing the point.\n\nWe don't allow militias and Rittenhouse went there with the full stated intent of being part of the militia. He should not be able to escape accusations that he was illegally in possession of the rifle and stirring up shit in a position he had no business being in.",
"Okay then let's actually have a sophisticated argument on it. If I'm in an active shooter situation and I'm in a closet hiding and the guy comes in. Do I get to take him down? Legally when do I get apprehend a criminal? Is it after he shoots me. That's the whole point of this argument. is it always legal for someone to shoot me if they're scared? \n\nThe answer HAS to matter. We can't apply it in some cases and not others. To the courts it's either always okay for someone to shoot someone (who's non law enforcement) who's trying to apprehend then regardless of their criminal status. Or it's not.",
"A crime?",
"If that’s actually him that’s pretty fucked. Like I said that doesn’t change anything trial-related but obviously think that’s super shitty",
"Nope, nobody else shot 3 people",
"I did not. Which one from NPR are you referring to? This one \"Gaige Grosskreutz, shot by Rittenhouse in Kenosha, takes the stand at his trial\"?",
"You put the blame on Rittenhouse simply for being in a dangerous places. You’re biased.",
"I'm not even white, I'm simply stating facts. Try dealing with them sometime.",
"I'll repost my comment from another thread:\n\nIn itself, illegal possession of the weapon doesn't cause exemption from claiming self-defense. However, see https://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsin/2014/chapter-939/section-939.48 \n939.48(2)(c) (c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense. \nThe two questions are whether he's \"provoking an attack\" and whether there was \"intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death\". Is walking around a violent protest area brandishing a weapon considered provocation? Is crossing state lines to walk around with an illegally obtained weapon, open-carrying in a violent protest area reason to believe he had intent to cause death?\n\nIf a child tells me that he/she wants to go to a violent protest, I'd be worried about their safety. The responsible thing to do is tell the little child that he should not go to the protest because people may get hurt. If that child decides to go to the protest open-carrying a rifle, then it's kind of hard to claim that there was no intention of violence at all here.",
">clip of him at a CVS threatening to shoot protesters\n\nThat never happened, quit lying. \n\nWhat the video does show is that he called 911 because he thought people were committing crimes in the CVS.",
"travelling across state lines is not illegal\n\nthe gun was a registered hunting rifle that belonged to a friend. not illegal\n\nprotecting businesses that weren't his? not illegal. also he worked nearby\n\nhow did he escalate the situation? where's your evidence of that",
"How?",
"Wouldn't call them fascists, but hypocrites may do them justice.",
"Did he show up for work, or did he show up to intimidate protestors with a gun? Unless he was just driving out there for a shift then the argument is pointless. I also grew up in a small town adjacent to a major city while working in the city, you don't go into the city unless you have a reason(work, school, partying, etc.). His reason was to go antagonize protestors, it resulted in multiple murders.",
"well, theres 2 dead people who wont get a chance to testify at all, this is the only living victim.",
">Some kid illegally bought a gun \n\nabsolutely irrelevant. if that's even true it's a separate crime and is only a misdemeanor",
"Maybe yeah \n\nThat said, facts indisputably show that grosskreutz pointed a gun at rittenhouse, and then he got shot. Getting that info from him was like pulling teeth",
"\"This guy is aiming a gun at me after I ran for my life. Should I shoot him?........ NAH I don't want to be an asshole or anything, I'll just let him kill me.\"",
"Lmao no it's nothing like that but weird fantasies you have there. Very eerily specific.",
"That's actually a bit out of step with case law in many jurisdictions. Convictions of homeowners who chased down and killed armed burglars who fled from them have been upheld (pretty analogous to what Grosskreutz attempted to do here), for example. In the Kyle Rittenhouse case, whether he can or cannot legitimately claim self defense from the point where he attempted to remove himself from the site of the initial confrontation is pretty unclear, and that's why it's been a focus in this trial.\n\nFrom that perspective, while Mr. Grosskreutz's admission does not necessarily confirm that Kyle Rittenhouse did act in self-defense, it does kind of torpedo the general narrative the prosecution was constructing and the praise they had lavished on Grosskreutz just prior, and likely will do a lot to weaken their case before a jury. Just the nature of the adversarial jury-of-your-peers legal system we have to be honest.",
"you said he should be given life though. so he should be given life even though he didn't break the law?",
"Yeah he didn’t have anyone “actively trying to shoot him” when people were yelling he was an active shooter. You don’t need to be dishonest here.",
"I mean it's always been the correct response.\n\nI've never seen so many people just talk complete shit (sorry) to try and justify him going to jail.\n\nThe whole he shouldn't have been there shit too means nothing, it also just straight up sounds like victim blaming.\n\nDude can go wherever the fuck he wants and is still within his rights to defend himself.\n\nI get he's a little shit but people just been embarrassing themselves on this one.",
"Is it self defense if someone with a rifle just killed someone for an, at the time, unknown reason and is on the move with said rifle shouting something? I don't know what people expect to happen if you shoot someone dead in that situation. \n\nAmerica has this fetish for 'A good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun', but in every event we have people pulling guns on eachother because nobody knows WTF is going on. Someone killed somebody, then after people tried to stop the shooter with force, he killed someone else. \n\n\nDo we have rules to this game if EVERYONE believes they're defending themselves? \n\n&nbsp;\n\n\"NUH UH YOU CAN'T CLAIM SELF DEFENSE BECAUSE I CLAIMED IT FIRST!\"\n\n\"NO, I CLAIMED DOUBLE SUPER SELF DEFENSE WHICH UNDOES YOURS!\"\n\n\"I CLAIM TRIPLE DOUBLE ULTRA SELF DEFENSE WHICH MEANS I WIN!\"",
"I'm amazed anyone came to other possible conclusions when so much good footage has become public about this.\n\nLike... watch the video? That's what happened? I heard even the FBI had flyover drone footage, like, why is there so much talk about what obviously and provably happened.",
"This is America. I'm allowed to carry a gun wherever I'm allowed to legally. That doesn't give anyone the right to draw a weapon on me or attack me.",
"In the video you see him raise his hands, at which point the rifle is moved off of him. He then draws his pistol, points it at Rittenhouse, and is shot. Saying he was shot with his hands up is a blatant lie. \n\nAlso, whether you intentionally point a gun at someone or not is irrelevant. You pointed a gun at them",
"Thank you. That's the whole point here. The legality of someone being able to shoot you if they're scared for their life. It can't not apply in some situation and then sometimes in others. That's not how law works.",
">Lmfao, property>human life obviously. Fucking capitalist brain rot.\n\nThis is what I see repeated a lot. And that \"it's insured isn't it\" defense. Just because something is a thing or that thing is insured, doesn't mean it's destruction won't massively change someone's life and possibly even run financially. And just because something is insured doesn't mean it can REALLY be replaced. \n\nI don't know, maybe it's the Texan in me. But if someone is actively stealing from me, I shouldn't have to weigh the price of a human life vs my stuff. The person stealing from me probably has weighed the cost of my stuff vs his life and decided it's worth it. I probably wouldn't go to a gun as my first option of keeping my stuff but it is an option should the need arise.\n\nEdit: I am of the opinion that Kyle fucked up. This guy had his pistol out, sure. But it's my understanding that Kyle had already fired at someone. At that point I believe he was the aggressor. Furthermore, Kyle was NOT defending his own property. He's no hero for defending a gas station which was likely a chain in another state. (my comment was about ME defending MY stuff. I'll call the cops for someone else's car or store, but I'll make myself known for mine if the situation calls for it)",
"You saying that CLEARLY shows you have watched none of this trial. I have watched every minute of it. This narrative that he was an “active shooter” and went there to kill people is completely inaccurate. The evidence shows quite the opposite.",
"Please consult [Wisconsin Laws](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48), especially section 2 (a), which states in part that engaging in illegal behavior that could be construed to provoke attacks nullifies your right to claims self-defense. \n\nI’m not saying Rittenhouse is guilty or not; from my view, the whole situation is a mess.\n\nThat being said, your statement is just false, by this layman’s reading of Wisconsin law: the circumstances by which you require self-defense most definitely play a role in evaluating the validity of your legal self-defense claim.",
"Seriously. Americans and their guns.\n\nI swear they're like toddlers with their favorite toy.",
"We're all guilty of it from time to time. That's just part of being alive.\n\nIt also doesn't mean that it's never ok to stand up for yourself either.",
"He's saying that there's been a huge amount of spin and npr is one example. And because of the spin outside the court, we might expect to see it inside the court too.",
"They kind of don't in this case:\n\n(2) Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows:\r \n(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant. \n\n\nFirst of all, in order for the unlawful conduct (which is alleged to be illegal possession of a fire-arm) to be LIKELY to provoke others, they would have to know that he was 17 and not 18 and that it was illegal for him to have it at 17 and not 18 which is also not likely. Otherwise, he appears just like any other of-age person out there legally carrying a fire-arm. That Constitutional right is not LIKELY to provoke others to attack. \nSecondly, the law explicitly allows the use of lethal force for the person engaging in unlawful activity under certain circumstances, including when they have tried to escape and they fear great bodily harm or death. \nStop regurgitating biased \"news\" and actually read the laws you are talking about.",
"Leaving out the Rosenbaum incident, yes",
"He didn’t lie to help gain a bogus conviction to make some people feel fuzzy inside",
"> Him bringing the gun with the intention of using it if someone broke a fucking window pane in aboslutely uncalled for\n\nNothing approaching this happened. He brought the gun incase someone tried to kill him, that is it. He witnessed plenty of destruction and did not shoot anyone for such and he retreated over and over and over again.",
"Time, sure, but *life*? Bit excessive with the new facts. He went there expecting trouble and brought a gun for good measure, that's a problem, but he was also being egged on by what should've been responsible adults. He was basically manipulated into thinking he was doing the right thing, and you think that deserves an automatic life sentence?\n\nEdit: Always easy to ignore the indoctrination shit when it's inconvenient for your perspective, eh?",
"incorrect good sir. it's a separate charge.",
">One of the thing he said was parking tickets are one of the most regressive forms of taxation.\n\nThey pretty much are. Poor people can be set way back by a parking ticket, whereas it's just a pinprick to the upper middle and rich classes.",
"Lol Kyle put out the fire started by rosembaum, and then he killed rosembaum, so I'd say yeah. Let me come to your house and burn all your shit to the ground and see if you mind, since after all it's not killing anyone",
"Whether he should or shouldn’t have been there is irrelevant. Whether he’s an asshole or not is irrelevant. He’s not on trial for being an asshole or determining if he should have stayed at home. Up and down this forum is talking about what he should or shouldn’t have done… it couldn’t be further from what is happening in that court room.",
"The law should be constructed in such a way where a person who had clear malicious intent isn't allowed to kill people in such a way that an amoeba could have seen coming.",
"excellent take 👌",
"He has his hands raised, while taking aim!",
"2 things…\n\nIt wasn’t a “legal firearm” at least not in the way it was being carried as his CCW was expired\n\nan active shooter is different then someone who has shot someone in self defense. If I get attacked and fire on someone and then you draw on me, I think there’s quite a few people that would say you have committed a crime.\n\nIt is up to the jury to decide if he acted in self defense, I have watched every hour of the trial so far and it’s starting to look very likely he will get off and be judged to be acting in self defense but that’s just my opinion. We’ll see what the Jury thinks. day 6 just a few m linutes ago, the prosecution has rested their case. now the defense gets to call their witnesses. The prosecution did not make a compelling argument, most of the witnesses in the end bolstered the defenses case.",
"Luckily two of them were throughly dealt with. I have no sympathy for child rapists and abusers.",
"you said he should be given life, that implies illegality",
">\t(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.\n\n941.28 pertains to short barreled rifles. Kyle was not carrying a short barreled rifle. So he was not in violation of 941.28. \n\nAnd he wasn’t hunting so ss29.304 and 29.593 do not apply to this. SS29.304 only applies to people aged 12-16 in the first place, and 29.593 is about a hunter education card. \n\nThat’s what makes the law murky. The entire section **only** applies to him if he was hunting or carrying a short barreled rifle. It also does not apply to the adult that purchased rhe rifle since Kyle was not in violation of any of the laws mentioned in that subsection.",
"Rittenhouse was defending himself against them, as evidenced by eyewitness video and the drone footage, so no. \n\nYou cannot lawfully attack someone who is lawfully defending themselves.\n\nThat's why this is so bad for the prosecution. They can't argue that Kyle was there to wantonly kill protestors if the only protestors he killed or injured all tried killing *him* first. That's an open and shut self defense case.",
"😂",
"So you would've been happier if they flipped the order of the statements so it would've started with the cross-examination?",
"Very rarely, this just happened to be a case that occurred to the right people at the right time.\n\nWe were in the middle of a massive surge of violence from antifa and their ilk for months, they had run rough shod through most of the country with most sane people just letting them burn down whatever they wanted. This case was where someone incidentally shot and killed several of those rioters.\n\nIf this case wasn't immediately castigated the entire political faction that benefitted from those riots would have lost an immense amount of power. The riots would stop because people would see \"Hey wait a minute, I can shoot those rioters and get away with it\". This ignores the likely blood bath you would have also seen cascade out of this event.\n\nIt's really a case of right crime, right time.",
"Right. And this guy said he wasn’t chasing him but was headed in the same direction, and then agreed that he advanced on him. So — according to him — he wasn’t chasing him in the lead up, but then purposefully moved toward him when he fell down. If he had agreed he was “chasing” him, the picture would be slightly different, right?",
"Rittenhouse runs *towards* the person who ultimately chased him before he runs away, someone who he's been in conflict with all night. \n\nThe thing any of Rittenhouse's armed victims did wrong, was not just pulling the trigger immediately when they had a chance. \n\nThen they would be the ones sitting in the court arguing self defense, and Rittenhouse would have died in the street... and they would probably also walk.",
"No court has ruled that Grosskreutz was carrying illegally but you still bring that up.\n\nKyle had his gun aimed at Grosskreutz when his hands were up…well before he aimed at Kyle. He only aimed at Kyle when he feared for his life because Kyle had his rifle aimed at him and already used it on three others (missing one).\n\nYou’re 0-2 my dude",
"Do you have a link to the NPR article that stated he was shot while having his arms raised? The only one I've seen is the one berntout posted, which doesn't say he was shot while raising his arms, only that a firearm was raised at him while he had his arms up. \n\nIt's important because people are using that example as NPR misrepresenting the situation as you can see from a couple of comments below, so I'd just like to see where they actually say that if it's the case so I can know whether it's people misinterpreting an article, or if NPR actually came out and claimed the situation evolved in one way (not just quoting people from the trial) where we're now learning it happened in opposition of their original claims as the testimony has evolved. EDIT: Disregard, I found the headline that folks were using. MayorBangsalot posted the reference. I'm now searching for that headline to see where it was originally posted, because the subreddit it's posted on doesn't have the original link...just trying to see where all of this originated from.",
"So if he had \"fantasies of shooting protestors\" why was it that the only 3 people shot were actively attacking him at the time? After shooting Grosskreutz, as he stands back up and continues to walk away, numerous gun (probably at least a dozen) shots are heard from the mob behind him. Why didn't Rittenhouse open fire on the crowd? He looked back at the crowd and did nothing but continue to walk towards the police. \n\nIf he truly had \"fantasies of shooting protestors\" there would have been dozens shot.",
"Even if you come to a place (eg bar) because you supposedly wish you could shoot someone, if what happens is that a person starts attacking you, and you don't shoot them, instead you retreat until you're cornered, you can still claim defense.",
"That's a pretty squishy argument. So if an active shooter shoots someone on the way out the door of a Walmart and then goes towards the police he can just say he was scared of the guy at the door?",
"C'mon man! they don't watch the videos, they wait for the media to tell them what happened.",
"They were so quick to call him an evil mass shooter because he was a white kid. That's all it took for him to be a white supremacist in their eyes. We're at the point where Winsome Sears, a black immigrant was elected Lt. Governor, and SHE is now being called a white supremacist because of the R by her name.",
"The article says his hands were raised when he was shot. They clearly were not. Not in his testimony, not in his video, not in reality. \n\nNPR is lying",
"Would it have been self defense if Rittenhouse had shot a police officer that was drawing his gun at him (because he had already killed two people)? I'm curious. I mean, the police officer could have shot him... it's only right that he shoot the police officer instead... for his own self defense.",
"You know who else shouldn't have been there?? The fucking rioters & the sex offender who attacked him. Stop moving goal posts on this.",
"Funny you say that, this man admitted in court to being affiliated with a known left wing terror group that supports revolution aka insurrection against the state. So no this was a terrorist engaged in 75 nights of consecutive terror to overthrow the state trying to kill someone.",
"Cope harder.",
"All of your points were discussed in the trial. He didn't \"cross state lines\" just to be at that protest, his friend and legal owner of his gun lived there and they had gone back and forth the city in those days, his father used to live there and he once worked in Kenosha too. He used to hang out in that town all the time. The weapon was bought by his friend at that city and always remained stored at his house when not in use so the weapon never left Kenosha. He did go back to Illinois to turn himself (the closest Kenosha PD was being burned down), to his hometown which was less than 30 minutes away.\n\nFor this he was never charged for gun charges in Illinois https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/10/14/923643265/kyle-rittenhouse-accused-kenosha-killer-wont-face-gun-charges-in-illinois",
"He did exactly what an adult should have done and defended himself",
"I'm a little rusty, it's been a while, but I have no reason to doubt I would still be a pretty good shot. More importantly, I've never been one to lose my shit during a crisis.",
"A person who posseses an illegal firearm is committing a felony just by holding it, open carrying one just makes the crime worse.\n\nYou can't just own illegal firearms that aren't properly registered.\n\nBut yes, straw buyers are also committing a crime.",
"Well I found the sub where all the 4chan trolls hang out",
"Except he was an active shooter as he shot several people, spaz.",
"How did he escalate the situation in any manner that wasn’t already escalated from those around him? You’re not concerned with the facts, you’re concern is that this is a “win” for the “right wing”. This is the exact political dogma that’s plaguing the country.",
"Yes but if Grosskreutz feared for his life because Rittenhouse had just shot multiple people and Rittenhouse still has a gun then Grosskreutz is using self defense. If you are saying that it was Grosskreutz duty to leave the dangerous scene otherwise he loses acting in self defense, then how does Kyle get to keep self-defense when he intentionally got a gun and drove to the conflict.\n\nSee what I mean by you can change the time window multiple ways and end up with drastically different interpretations.",
">The crowd in general had no way of knowing he wasn't an active shooter\n\nUsually active shooters are actively shooting people. He wasn't visibly shooting anyone as he ran down that street until people started attacking him.\n\nYou can't just assume someone is an active shooter because some idiot said so. If I walked near you and screamed \"HE HAS A SUICIDE BOMB VEST!!\" anyone who shot you would still be in the wrong, unless you actually did have a suicide bomb vest.",
"Wait, what property did Rittenhouse defend again?",
"fuck off dipshit, if you threaten somebody who has a gun and that person does everything possible to extricate themselves from the situation and then you catch up to them and grab their gun, they can shoot you",
"That's only because the news lied to you. Please look for first hand sources going forward.",
"Please consult [Wisconsin Laws](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48), especially section 2 (a), which states in part that engaging in illegal behavior that could be construed to provoke attacks nullifies your right to claims self-defense. So the facts surrounding whether a self-defense claim is valid most certainly include Rittenhouse’s presence there with an illegal firearm.",
"Also the number of people that have been saying 'textbook self defense' apparently have not read this...\n\nhttps://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsin/2014/chapter-939/section-939.48\n\nIt was not in his own home, place of business or vehicle. The state can examine if every other means to escape was exhausted. One such means of escape would involve just running away. Nothing I have read even suggested this, and in fact it appears Kyle chased Rosenstien at least a bit.\n\nAt what point does \"fearing for your life\" become reasonable when you have a gun and your victim does not and you have been chasing him? Couldn't someone reasonably conclude that Rosenstien feared for his life because a kid was swinging a gun at him?",
"Yes he did but they don’t care about that cuz guns bad",
"Yes, and the two men shot also knew Kyle was an active shooter after hearing gun shots and seeing him flee the scene. “Knowing” cuts both ways whether you want to be honest and admit it or not.",
"Then why does it matter if someone else can claim self defense?",
"It's a good thing Rittenhouse had an AR15, else he would likely be dead now.",
"I agree, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous \"At worst Kyle will get manslaughter\" is and he's also arguing that the case should not be brought. Because if he can be *found* guilty of something so serious then it makes sense to take him to court.",
"Friendly tip! I think you should take a step back and reevaluate your opinion on the matter. Clearly you haven’t done your research on this situation and are having an emotional reaction to something that doesn’t fit your political views. Don’t align yourself with the left or right. I would start there. You and everyone else around you will be better off for it. Unless you are just a troll, then carry on.",
"In this case, no. Grosskreutz only saw that Rittenhouse shot one other person and only did so after that person attacked Rittenhouse with a skateboard. Grosskreutz pointed a gun at someone who legitimately defended himself.",
"You literally just said that the Okay sign is white supremacy. \n\nLiterally delusional",
">This isn’t really a debatable point.\n\nSure it is. You are welcome to have an opinion but that doesn't make you right. State law would dictate what you can and cannot do in regards to open carry. If you can legally walk around with a rifle and it's not considered brandishing, then it's not an aggressive action, is it? \n\nDifferent countries with different cultures would also like to prove you wrong.",
"his illegally carried, illegally concealed gun.\n\nI'm shocked he didn't just lie under oath. That tends to be what commies do.",
"The peaceful protesters lit a dumpster on fire and pushed towards a gas station. They also lit on fire the courthouse (that Rittenhouse's trail is happening in) that night or the night before. Super peaceful.",
"In this video, the video that started this very discussion we're involved in, Grosskreutz said that when he had his arms up, Kyle didn't fire. He didn't fire until after Grozzkreutz aimed his gun at Kyle and advanced on him. He admitted this in court. In this very video.\n\nThis is in direct contention to what you linked.",
"It’s clear from what the guy linked that NPR is pushing a narrative…",
"Joseph Rosenbaum, a bipolar, homeless man, who had just gotten out of the mental hospital, in a riot zone. What could possibly go wrong?",
"ill accept whatever a jury of his peers hands him. I see a child making a terrible terrible mistake and murdering 2 people. (not in his neighborhood at all.) \n\n\nhes not courageous. if he was my kid id be ashamed of his decision making skills.",
"You’re contradicting your own point.\n\nAs I said so someone else: I think you are fundamentally confused about what guns do and what fire extinguishers do.",
"Have a look at subsection 3(c) in your link: \n>\"(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. [...]\" \n \n941.28 is about SBRs (Short Barreled Rifles) which Kyle did not have. \n29.304 and 29.593 are both about restrictions on hunting, neither of which Kyle was in violation of. Its a poorly written law. The intent was likely exactly what you are saying, but 3c invalidates it.",
"All the other charges are incredibly menial compared to the murder the prosecution is trying to push. All the other charges will either be plead down or just be fines.",
"You're wrong. Read the law. Try again",
"But you can challenge someone to step outside for a fight, suddenly fear for your life, try to escape them till you get cornered and have no way out, pull a gun and claim self defense.",
"He lied before this video took place!\n\nhttps://youtu.be/Aa5fPbR7H3E?t=12124\n\nHere's some of the full video! Rewind it and watch more if you want, but that timecode is good enough.\n\n'you agree that your firearm is pointed at him, correct?' 'Yes.' 'And once your firearm is pointed at Mr Rittenhouse, THAT's when he fires his gun, yes?' 'No.'\n\nDude straight up fucking lied WHILE LOOKING AT A PICTURE OF HIMSELF POINTING HIS GUN AT RITTENHOUSE.\n\nAnd THEN the lawyer goes back through all of the videos and pictures again which is where we get what's above.\n\nLiterally goes 'sir, does this look like your arm being shot' 'yes' 'and this picture was taken while your gun is pointed directly at him' '...yes' 'and when you were standing 3-5 feet from him with your hands in the air, he never fired' '...yes'. 'So it wasn't until you pointed your gun at his fucking face that he fired!' '....okay fine'.\n\nDude *literally fucking lied* about it in court and the lawyer had to drag him through the evidence AGAIN to get him to admit to what is being shown in video and picture form!",
"c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.\n\n\nVague.",
"I get that you're making a joke, but the US is actually 32nd on the list of gun deaths per capita, and most of them are suicide.\n\n|\n\nhttps://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/03/24/980838151/gun-violence-deaths-how-the-u-s-compares-to-the-rest-of-the-world",
"There’s a charge (aka instructions) read to most juries that directs them to only base their decision on the evidence, see New York PJI 1:7 for an example. However, juries are humans and are likely influenced by any number of factors, including, but not limited to, reactions to evidence.",
"Ah, so the age old legal tenet \"guilty until proven innocent.\" Conversely, you don't know what you are talking about.",
"Kyle gonna be swimming in slander and libel money from all those civil suits",
"> looking for a fight\n\nThen why is there zero video or witness testomony of him being aggressive? There IS video of him extinguishing fires & offering medical aid.\n\nAlso why did he retreat over and over and over again.",
"you know it's a federal crime to lie in court right? the guy was telling the truth and there's videos of the incident. \n\nthe role of a witness is not to falsely convict republicans, despite what most of you wish for.",
"Morally Rittenhouse did the right thing.",
"You linked to a video clearly showing he only pointed his gun at and shot people who were actively attacking him.",
"All of it was justified self defense. The prosecution's own witness will tell you so.",
"Lol, that was the joke.",
"If turning your back and running for your life isn't backing down, then what the fuck is, professor??",
"Grosskreutz chased Rittenhouse for almost 2 blocks with his gun drawn. How is that \"defending himself\"? First requirement for something to be \"self defense\" is an attempt to retreat or disengage. He did exactly the opposite of that.",
"NPR is not lying. They are reporting what Grosskreutz testified.",
"I think it's pretty lame that you come here on your high horse talking about the importance of honesty in a comment that will be highly upvoted because you got here early, and you are *blatantly* wrong about what NPR reported. Shame on you, seriously, NPR depends on public funding and bullshit like this does *not* help improve the honesty of American news media. \n\nhttps://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha\n\n>\"In three hours of dramatic testimony Monday, Grosskreutz, 27, acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, but said that his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him and that he feared for his life.\"\n\n>\"In cross-examination, they emphasized Grosskreutz's Glock pistol — which was in his hand at the moment Rittenhouse shot him — and proximity to Rittenhouse, just about 3 feet, at the time of the shooting. Grosskreutz said he was not intentionally pointing the weapon at Rittenhouse.\"",
"If he is convicted due to his testimony I will apologize to you.\n\nBut 50/50? If the chances were that low the defense would duct-tape him to his chair. And, since they'd be the ones who would call him to testify...",
"Well he killed how many people? Can we bring those people back? What message does it send that you can go into a situation that obviously has a huge chance for violence with premeditated intent and get out scott free because you felt threatened?",
"but if someone dies in the commission of another crime, thats murder. He was commiting a few crimes. and now hes murdered some.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nedit: like if someone get trampled while im robbing their bank...thats felony murder.",
"In a fucked up situation like this wouldn't it be normal to try and stop the shooter? There are always stories of people stepping and disarming shooters and 'OOOH HEROES THEY SAVED THE DAY!'\n\nIf we assume all parties are acting with honest intentions after the first shooting, who's self defense is the 'real' self defense? Does people feeling they need to defend themselves against you justify your own self defense toward them?",
"bigoted morons like you are as responsible for trump getting elected as all the racists inbreds from alabama. keep doubling down and we're gonna get him again. pull your head out of your ass",
"Right, but G hadn't killed anyone at that point. The only killer was Kyle and he didn't seem like he was about to stop.",
"The law on this is actually as mess as there are two separate statutes that are in conflict. The prosecutor is arguing the law should be interpreted based upon the legislature's intent which would likely make KR guilty while the defense is arguing you interpret the law as written would likely make KR nonguilty. There is no clear cut answer and it has never been litigated.",
"cmon dude nobody carse if he gets charged with that.\n\neveryone arguing that it matters are referring to the murder charge.\n\npeople can go wherever they want and are allowed to defend themselves.\n\nstop victim blaming",
"The lede—(which is clear by the fact that every normal person is jumping on it)—the fact that the prosecution’s own witness just completely undermined their entire case as the prosecutor literally placed his head in his hands—wasn’t what these news outlets ran with. Because they had spent months painting the kid as a murderer despite clear video evidence showing that it was reasonably a self defense situation.",
"Yeah, obviously I'm not saying that it does, or even should change anything trial related. Prosecution tried to set him up for murder with intent and even an idiot could see that they didn't have enough evidence for it. All I'm saying is Kyle's hands aren't exactly clean here even if he is found innocent.\n\nI stg, this dumbfuck racist kid is gonna be the new Zimmerman because people can't understand that not being found guilty =/ completely innocent",
"You're factually incorrect on everything. He saw Huber get killed but admitted Kyle was in danger of head trauma before shooting Huber. He never pointed the gun at anyone that wasn't about to assault him\nHe lowered it when they backed off that's when Grosskreutz went closer with his gun, Kyle pointed his rifle at him, and grosskreutz lowered his weapon, then when Kyle lowered his, grosskreutz like a coward tried to dome him and got shot. Self defence",
"You would be wrong on both counts. You lose. Try again.",
"Or, you know, 100% of the problem is that people were rioting.",
"You could just not attack someone who has a gun",
"I mean I did use to word to reference someone returning an attack. \n\nI am specifically trying to get at the fact that legally (in some places) you are not supposed to retaliate, or return an attack, after the attack if the attacker no longer presents a danger to the victim.\n\nAnd since this is the case, it may be possible to argue that the original attacker could claim self defense if someone intervened and attacked them after the initial instigating incident.\n\nI don't know if this situation is one that's explicitly called out in any laws and I'm not arguing wheter it's right or not, im just trying to reason out a possible outcome based on the laws that I'm aware of.",
"Dude… stop commenting.",
"Yea, he's a coward. \nhttps://youtu.be/MFwz2ESjfBQ?t=55",
"self defense is sacrosanct in america. this farce will fail, its all on video.",
"Grosskreutz showed to a protest with a handgun. \n\nAnd presumably, one could show up with a rifle to deter and stop potential \"shit\".",
"Yeah this right here. Grosskruetz was trying to be the ‘good guy with a gun’. Rittenhouse had already shot and killed two people, one right in-front of Grosskruetz. It’s a fucked scenario because now people are arguing Rittenhouse was firing because he was afraid for his life, but was Grosskruetz not?! He was trying to resolve the situation of an active shooter and should be praised for it. Instead he is being portrayed as someone who had it coming because he pulled out his firearm to stop Rittenhouse.",
"NPR is extremely morally bankrupt and I'm not even a libertarian. It's pure liberal wankery for 'enlightened' Democrats and Biden voters.",
"I'm not sure you understand what the word \"bigot\" means.",
"So we've gone from, he should've backed down to, He ShOuLdNt HaVe BeEn ThErE! \n\nJust shut up, your argument is toast.",
"We have video evidence of how the second one was killed though, swinging a skateboard at a guy on the ground who had a gun. Open and shut.",
"Setting himself of to be attacked? Victim blaming is wrong (except when the victim is perceived to be “right wing”)",
"Look at you with your complete lack of literacy trying to talk at the grown up table. So cute.",
"So wait, if there's a shootout on the street, all that matters is who fired first and the other is entitled to kill that person in self defense despite intending to be in that shootout? \n\nOf course not. Intent matters. Other circumstances matter. The kid voluntarily went into a dangerous situation with a gun fully intending to use it. You don't go into that situation with a gun without that intent unless it's part of your uniform and you are authorized to be there with it. As far as I'm concerned, he's going into that situation intending to have a violent confrontation and therefore loses the ability to claim self defense.",
"Dude's not wrong, this entire case is self evident.",
"It's not about what you should do. Its about legality. And the reason it matters is for life or death situations. If Im in a closet and someone tries to come in and I don't know if they're the shooter but they have a gun when can I apprehend him? When is it legal? But the caveat is that legality of my death is gonna apply in any situations. It's not about what you should do but whether or not it's legal to shoot people trying to apprehend you if you're scared. Even if you are in a criminal situation. Cause that matters. If it's illegal for me to apprehend you during this event it would also be illegal for me to apprehend someone during an active shooter situation. In which case if I'm cornered I might die. Everybody is so drawn in by the fact that these people made a dumb choice that they've lost sight of how it affects legal precedent. And it matters. It really really matters.",
"Trust me, there are plenty of American's that think this. There is a astroturf campaign right now on these reddit threads to make it seem like people are happy with this outcome, and justifying this nonsense. Most of us are angry about this, don't the overzealous conservative fundies flooding reddit now fool you.",
"I have two questions to ask you, let’s see if you can be honest\n\n1: what does NPR, in their headline, claim was the position of Gauge’s hands when he was shot. \n\n2: what does Gauge, in his testimony, say he was doing when he was shot.",
"That's not remotely what happened. If someone sees things happening and misinterprets them, their misinterpretation is not a valid defense of their actions. Even if they directly saw Kyle shoot the first person and thought Kyle shot him for no reason, Kyle is still allowed to defend himself from them because the evidence clearly shows he was defending himself in the first place. You not understanding the situation does not invalidate their right to self defense.",
"Because the defense is arguing that kyle thought people had an intent to harm them but in reality people thought he was an active shooter so that hurts the self-defense argument.",
"And Rittenhouse didn’t have a legal gun either",
"Okay, nothing makes sense about the way he acted *that entire night and days after*. But self defense is self defense. *In that moment* if the video shows he was defending himself then those are the facts, and that makes sense.",
"And that would put Klye in volation of\n\n\nc) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.",
"Hahahahahah chuds get funnier every day",
"was he trying to grab the weapon while doing a pirouette?",
"The exact advice that Kyle didn’t follow.",
"I’m sorry I’m English so this might get lost in translation. The idea of taking a gun anywhere seems like you’re intending on using it to me. The concept of ‘just having my gun just in case’ seems wild and crazy to me",
"Correct. Rittenhouse should have never had that assault rifle",
">Were his actions self-defense according to state law? Based on the evidence, it certainly looks that way.\n\nCan you explain this a little more? Did he shoot people that were shooting at him? I thought based on what we know someone fired, and he fired at someone he thought fired at him, but with no real way of knowing EDIT: did he think when Rosenbaum chased him that Rosenbaum was chasing him with a gun? I mean, is that legal, to fire ~~into a crowd~~ at someone you \"think\" is shooting at you?",
"Of course they are all related, that is always a recipe for no conflicts of interest...\n\nI just realized that the gun charge Rittenhouse has is because he was a minor possessing a firearm, but he is being charged as an adult; those things seem to directly conflict.",
"It’s the same as suicide by cop. It’s suicide because you planned to die by having your actions force someone else’s hand.\n\nKyle went to kill someone and managed to get himself in a situation where he could be justified. To me that’s still murder, despite the law. \n\nIt’s only a matter of time before he gets in more trouble, see Zimmerman for the general timeline.",
"I'm saying NPR didn't lie, they are reporting what Grosskreutz testified. If they reported anything else it would either be a lie or omission of detail which wouldn't show that Grosskreutz is as unreliable of a witness as he is.",
"Pulling a gun near someone is not the same as pointing a gun at someone... And neither is the same as having been open carrying a gun for hours with numerous witnesses.",
">traveled out of state\n\nKenosha is the nearest major city to his hometown. Crossing state lines is not a crime.\n\n>with an illegally carried firearm\n\nNo, he obtained the firearm in Wisconsin.\n\n>murdered two people\n\nNo, he killed two people in self defense.\n\nIs he a douchebag? Sure. Is he a racist? Wouldn’t surprise me one bit. Is he a murderer? No.",
"Not when it comes to disarming. If you have a loaded weapon and an aggressor is attempting to take that from you, you have to assume that they're going to use it against you. That holds true whether you're a civilian with no training or a season veteran.",
"It was not his community, he did not live there. Protecting property from rioters was the responsibility of commissioned law enforcement officers, who were highly present at the protest (they were driving protesters out of the park prior to the shootings). Citizens who take it upon themselves to use violence or the threat of violence (guns), to defend property that *they do not own*, are vigilantes. That's what you say KR was doing. He was a vigilante.\n\nEdit: I've also yet to hear anyone claim that the people KR shot were actually in the act of damaging property of any sort.",
"I believe there's an umbrella of crimes where if you're partaking in it the legal assumption is that there's no way to de-escalate the situation without potentially lethal response. I think a bank robbery falls under that umbrella. \n\nMerely existing in a space with a gun won't lol.",
"Ashli Babbitt was a traitor who fucked around and found out. And that's what her legacy will be, despite the insurrectionist apologists trying to make her a hero.",
"hahahahahaahahahaha oh god where do you come up with this stuff. hilarious. seriously, who taught you to think that? i'm gonna go heavy dose of tucker carlson topped off with some joe rogan, and a nightcap of alex jones.\n\nfucking hilarious. frankly, i'm surprised you didn't use the term \"leftist\". i guess you morons are slowly learning.\n\nNPR being evil is just hilarious to me. like, it would actually make for a really funny SNL skit. two quiet older ladies, after discussing recipes with the city's new top chef, go outside to smoke cigarettes, punch puppies, and steal from homeless people. still dressed in their sweater vests and turtlenecks.",
"Your cop buddies beg to differ chud",
"Can someone explain me, does Reddit expect him to lie under oath or something? What's the problem?",
"No court has ruled but he admitted he did not have a concealed carry permit. That's illegal carry. Kyle's case is way more complex.\n\nYes because Grosskreutz ran at Kyle gun in hand as someone else drop kicked his head and someone else used a skateboard to smash his head in. He lowered it when Grosskreutz backed off.\n\nYou're still 0-2 thanks for keeping count",
"Yes the rioters were very worried of the horrible mass shooter lol\n\nLeast it's one less pedo in the world, kid did good on that one.",
"Omg shut the fuck up.",
"The trial isn't over yet. I don't have anything to cope with at this time.",
"Did the guns stop the rioting? Did the gunless rioting kill anyone?\n\nHmm.",
"Well, you kinda can, since if someone actually watches the trial or even a part of it they can see how touches his face constantly, instead of just trusting a random redditor and their suggestive title",
"Thank you because this right here is the truth. This kid shouldn’t be so publicly shamed when we have evidence that he was probably going to get shot if he did or didn’t fire back prior to being a potential victim. Everyone is making it all political when it truly is about a kids life now and what his future will look like",
"im sorry, but if I witness you kill someone....my first thought is going to be \"I have to stop him before he kills someone else.\" its that simple.",
"Please try and tell me where I'm wrong I'll wait.",
"I think pointing a gun is provoking and theres footage yesterday of rosenbaum at thr gas station getting angry because and angry man with a gun pointed a gun at him and it escalated the situation. just want to know from kyle on the stand is, Why was kyle there? He didnt live there, he wasnt hired by anyone to protect anything, he didnt know the other people with guns, he said he was there to be a medic and everyone testified that he didnt do any medical treatments and hes not an emt as he claimed.",
">He likely would have gotten his ass beaten, but all parties would probably still be alive.\n\nIf he didn't have the weapon he'd likely have been smart enough to stay out of the fray completely.\n\nAs a Canadian it's absolutely fascinating watching Americans be more concerned over the right to own, flaunt, and use a weapon than the lives of their citizens.",
"These are the testified facts...\n\n• Rosenbaum appeared to \"ambush\" Kyle Rittenhouse (Kenosha PD Detective Martin Howard). • Rosenbaum was chasing Rittenhouse and grabbing for his rifle (Richie McGinniss) • Rosenbaum was \"hyperaggresive\", constantly having to be physically restrained, and threatened to kill Rittenhouse if he caught him alone (Ryan Balch) • A USMC Rifleman who admitted that he'd consider Rosenbaum a deadly threat if Rosenbaum's actions were directed at him (Jason Lackowski) • Huber had struck Rittenhouse in the head with his skateboard, was worried about possible head trauma, and Rittenhouse did not fire at him until he had pointed his own gun at Rittenhouse and advanced on him (Gaige Grosskreutz).\n\nAgain, these are all Prosecution witnesses.",
"Politically motivated trials are never a good thing. Let them riot and deal with them legally.",
"https://twitter.com/jackposobiec/status/1458128554026147849?s=21\n\nHoo boy do I bet you feel silly right about now\n\nThe question is, are you gonna own up to it and admit you made a mistake? Or are you gonna double down on the stupid pills",
"Fleeing a scene isn’t admittance of a crime. \nThe 3rd man shot is shown on his own live stream that was shown in court, going up to Kyle and Kyle saying “I’m going to the police” as they were both heading in the direction of the police cars. \nThen a minute later Kyle gets hit by multiple people and falls and is when he shoots the 2 last guys after they attacked him. \n\nIf you killed a trump supporter in self defense while at a trump ralley with trump supporters all around you claiming you killed in cold blood, would you chill and wait for the police that are still blocks away from you? Or are you going to flee from the scene and go towards the police like how it’s proven Kyle did?",
"The police who offered him a bottle of water and let him go? Those police?",
"Democrats reeling\n\nE: why are you booing? Im right. Case closed here guys.",
"Funny, in the trial today the medical examiner said the first guy was \"upto four feet away\", and yet you're here repeating 20 feet and saying watch the trial.",
">He's 17, by definition he obtained it illegally.\n\nYou're wrong. You don't know the law.\n\n>Watching your dumpster-fire of a country from afar is fascinating.\n\nIt's funny that you think you should comment on the legality of his obtaining the firearm when you don't even live in the country. No wonder you're so wildly wrong.",
"Reality actually isn't partisan. That's why the prosecution & the leftists who painted Rittenhouse as a murderer, are facepalming right now.",
"you are literally too stupid to insult",
"> And since this is the case,\n\nSince what is the case? Kyle was attacked by a guy who claimed he was going to kill him, and tried to wrestle the gun from his hands. He was then beat over the head with a skateboard, so he did his best Danny DeVito impression.",
"You triggered?",
"Wow im really glad some \"studies\" took place that invalidated the numerous cases of rioting and looting. You're basically just saying that only a certain percentage of the activity was violent. But it only takes one fire to burn a building down, so that doesn't really mean much. Even if it's 98% peaceful, that could still represent a lot of damage.",
"It perfectly matches the video evidence and his testimony that he was trying to confront an active shooter to save lives. He also testified that he had no intention of killing Kyle. Since you Kyle supporters believe Kyle had a loaded gun with no intention of killing people, then I’m sure you trust Grosskeutz, too, right?",
"lmao dude stfu anyone neutral knows your literally doing the exact same thing victim blaming.",
"So Rosenbaum was a bad person I think we can agree on that. \n\nWhat does that have to do with this current trial?",
"So you can go into a protest with a rifle and intent to use it and as soon as one of them threatens me I can shoot them dead and get out without consequence. Interesting, I dont see this leading to anything terrible happening at all.",
"Okay what situation invalidates right to self defense? If an active shooter stops shooting. Gets on the ground and a group of people approach him to make sure he doesn't keep shooting but he gets 'scared' can he start shooting people again in the name of self defense. You really aren't seeing this in terms of legal precedent. If it's legal to shoot people you're scared could hurt you then it would absolutely absolve the shooter in this case as well. At least in the eyes of the law and the rule of precedent.",
"Don’t forget white supremacists! If you disagree with something now, its because you’re a white supremacist. Which sucks cuz it distracts from actual white supremacy. Same thing happened to the word “Nazi”.",
"Trump admitted to sexual assault on tape and has the record for highest number of indictments during an administration, but yeah it's \"the Left\" attacking law and order.",
"He will walk. It's called evidence, you moron.",
"Absolutely, and that's why Kyle's going to prison. After his initial shooting his actions were reasonably interpreted as threatening, so the people who attempted to take him down in self-defense were completely justified in their actions, and he'll be charged with at least one count of homicide as a result. His defense will rest on the fact that he was the only person acting in self defense that night, and no jury is going to believe that based on all the available video evidence.",
"Have you seen the video? No one raised their hands prior to shit and that right there is npr lying to paint their political motivated bullshit to steer this case",
"It's the only developed country this happens in, other countries take tighter gun control measures when mass shootings happen, and surprisingly they work",
"So the guy goes to a riot with a rifle, kills people and somehow he can get away with it as self defense? You can't willingly put yourself in danger and call murdering people self defense. All while carrying the weapon illegally? Only a white person can get away with something like that.",
"Carrying a gun on a public street. He has every right as a free citizen to be there.",
"https://i.imgur.com/uNYlLDY.jpg",
"Got it, yeah I agree",
"I hope he'd be prohibited from owning firearms in the future at the very least.",
"Weird that a citizen was walking about with a gun near a protest instead of the police and military taking control of the situation in the first place. Then again the US is a bizarre place anyway. Billions of tax payer's money pumped into law enforcement and the military but a kid with a gun was the best line of defence against a protest. No wonder the US is in the shape it is.\n\nOnly in the US would citizens think that this is normal. I suppose this'll just give more citizens the confidence to turn up to tense situations and make them worse for law enforcement. Not to mention all the crazies that'll use this as an excuse to just turn up and shoot citizens at more protests and riots.\n\nThen again I'm conversing with someone using the Knight's Templar flag in their profile picture who is backing up a white supremacist. Guess your narrative is pretty obvious.\n\nEdit: Oh my your comment history is hilarious; anti-semitic rhetoric, anti-vaxx, and pro-gun. Rupert Murdoch's wet dream.",
"False. He lived closer than any of the victims. He came to kenosha for work and to meet friends and family multiple times a week. It's his community.\n\nCops failed to do their job for months nationwide, and had already destroyed property the previous two nights. It's fair game morally for people to protect their own neighborhood at that point.\n\nSeethe more he'll walk. Nothing he did was illegal",
"why do I feel like your an asshole?",
"You shouldn't have to weigh the price of human life vs your stuff??? Yeah you do, you just did. You said that you would prefer to defend your property. You just told me you value your property greater than the life of a stranger.",
"I would think that bringing a gun suggests that he expected trouble and instead of staying home he went out looking for it gun in hand, that’s what I have issue with. The shooting itself as an isolated incident does seem like self-defense, but what led up to it was a serious of poor decisions that I would think qualify as reckless endangerment.",
"But why would you attack someone putting out fires",
"Except all the evidence and the video in this thread lol",
"Don’t know much about it, but what’s the time line of who was shot when? Did this guy point his gun at Kyle after Kyle shot the others?",
">the rioters\n\nThey weren't rioters, they were protesters.",
"Gaige ran at Kyle after Kyle told Gaige that he was going to the police. Gaige wasn't defending himself he was trying to enact mob justice.",
"Did Kyle get killed? No. Not sure your point here. People were shouting to stop Kyle cause he just shot someone and was walking away.",
"No but people do it anyway, if not intentionally then subconsciously.",
"You can join the military at 17, but you cannot deploy to a combat theater until 18.",
"https://twitter.com/jackposobiec/status/1458128554026147849?s=21\n\nHoo boy do I bet you feel silly right about now\n\nGonna admit you made a mistake after observing the evidence, or are you gonna double down despite video proving the contrary",
"He’s absolutely a piece of shit who should never have brought a gun there. But bringing the gun there is not the same as murder. Based on the video the killings are pretty easy to justify as self defense. He absolutely should not have gone there.\n\nAlso, calling what transpired a “protest” is a little silly. That event absolutely turned into a riot. Not to mention, the guy who he shot brought a gun there too and pointed it at him.\n\nI’d highly recommend watching the video if you haven’t.",
"Seeing as you are incapable of citing any source for that, i had to look for it myself. The media made it out as though Kyle crept up on an unsuspecting member of the public and sucker-punched her.\n\nHe's clearly a thug who doesnt think before taking action. The notions that he has a history of violence or fantasized about shooting protesters are both laughable. Can you actually show anything that backs up your statement, or are you just regurgitation something you saw on social media?\n\nThe video shows that the girl who was 'assaulted by Kyle' instigated the physical confrontation by assaulting one of Kyles ~~friends~~ (turns out he was defending his sister, according to comment above). He was too heavy handed maybe, but adrenaline can make you just react rather than think first.",
"There has been a video showing exactly this since the day after it happened.",
"So if I don't parrot the media I get insulted for not doing it... literally can't win with you clowns.",
"Something something good guy with gun stop bad guy with gun...\n\nNevermind they're just words people say when it suits them.",
"Different numbers from different people and yet the experts agree he wasn't posing a threat and was shot in the back multiple times.",
"least we have a dead pedo asshole.\n\nsilver lining and all",
"He wasn’t a murderer for any of them. If a guy charges you after earlier threatening to kill you, it’s perfectly reasonable to defend yourself. The other guy hit him in the head with a skateboard and tried to take the gun. Then this guy, *by his own fucking admission,* says that he was worried for Kyle’s well-being regarding the skateboard to the head and that he wasn’t shot until he aimed his firearm at Kyle. \n\nAt this point if you don’t think this is self defense, then you are willfully ignoring facts that go against your feelings. If you feel the law should be different, petition to change it, but as the law is written this is self defense.",
"The way the Americans have turned this into a left vs right thing is fucking insane.",
"> The people he killed tried to disarm him which is a pretty clear sign that they were trying to use his weapon against him\n\nThe only clear thing here is that they tried to disarm him *to disarm him*, where do you make the jump that they were trying to, after succesfully disarming him, to \"use it against him\"? Are you seriously claiming that they were only trying to take the gun from him to murder **him** in return? I mean, considering there's no instance of anyone successfully doing so, and trying to kill him with his own weapon. Isn't intent one of the hardest things to prove?\n\nIf he hadn't brought the weapon, none of this would've even happened.",
"its not an either or judgment. neither of them had any business being there brandishing.",
"The court system doesn't usually learn towards current political views.",
"how is this crude.",
">Were his actions self-defense according to state law? Based on the evidence, it certainly looks that way.\n\n\nJust based on Rittenhouse's altercation with Grosskreutz. But what about the altercation with Rosenbaum?",
"Actually, the narrative has been that Rittenhouse was a white supremacist murderer. This absolutely destroys that narrative, and now morons like you are struggling to justify the hate you've shown over the past year, and are moving the goal posts.",
"Considering where he was, and why he was where he was, I'd say you are full of shit\n\nEdit: Also - are you forgetting he shot and killed 2 people and wounded a third?",
"Yeah, no.\n\nYou're either unfamiliar with the sequences of events leading up to Kyle shooting each person that was shot AND unfamiliar with self defense concepts in general, OR you're being intellectually dishonest...",
"Instructing a client to lie under oath isn't \"spin.\"",
"I'm just glad this case will set the precedent that it's totally OK to take your firearm, drive to another state, and engage in gun battle with people you ideologically disagree with.\n\nThe more people we have shooting each other in this country, the better.",
"No, he was chasing down an active shooter AFTER shots were already fired. That would have been the likely defense narrative.",
"Lol, are you seriously trying to claim that there is no federal law regarding possession of an illegal firearm?",
"Oh yeah I completely agree, I think you can say that about most traffic violations as well. However a lot of traffic violations are safety orientated. \n\n\nI can't come up with a strong argument against that statement either. About the strongest argument I read is the lowest class can't afford cars anyways. I found that incredibly weak argument, and almost insulting. How can you be that disconnected from society to think that poor people can't/don't own cars.",
"Yes, but the others were chasing him and were shot. If someone breaks into my house and I shoot them it could be viewed as self defense. If I chase them down the street and shoot them it wouldn't be. If they didn't chase him they would not be in a situation that required defense from.",
"Apparently you're too stupid to see the contradiction in your own sentence.",
"I’ll wait for the jury to decide, thank you.",
"Umm why to all of those statements honestly? I don’t get the hate towards this kid at all. I don’t care about politics with this topic, it was self defense or it wasn’t why to both cases is the question. All bullshit aside",
"Kid buys a gun to counter protest the BLM protest.\n\nWhile he is there, a video shows a man charging at him with Kyle running away. Kyle then shoots the guy (who later dies) claiming self defense. That argument only works if Kyle did not instigate the incident, which we have no video showing who started what, but circumstantial evidence points to the charging guy being the aggressor.\n\nThen Kyle runs away gun in hand rather than stopping to render aid. A crowd forma thinking he is an active shooter fleeing the scene (which is kinda is) so some people start chasing after him.\n\nHe then trips and falls, and when he does so, points a gun at an unarmed man.\n\nHe he does this, this causes someone else to drop kick him to get him to stop pointing the gun. He gets shot by Kyle. Then a guy with a skateboard attacked Rittenhouse to get him to stop shooting the other guy. He also gets shot.\n\nThe guy in the video watches these two get shot, which is why he points his gun at Rittenhouse, and he too gets shot.\n\nIt’s worth noting that these three people seem to be trying to disarm Kyle rather than hurt him, but here’s the video to decide for yourself \n\nhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=VpTW2AJE9MQ&t=19m45s",
"No? Cause legality actually matters here? Rule of law matters here? Precedent matters here?",
"Jan 6 happened on May 31st beforehand, and in Jan. 2017, so what's actually your point? Isn't one of BLM's funds handlers a woman who literally blew up the fucking capital in the 80s lmao.\n\nI guess everyone forgets all the reporting about the capital being \"on fire in all directions\" in May, but at the same time, when reminded, as in at a hearing about jan 6th, the incident is shrugged off as not being anything to worry about because it happened at night instead of during the day lol. \n\nFunny how they're holding onto all that footage too. You know, of completely unarmed \"insurrectionists\" and \"unindicted conspirators\" casually walking within the roped areas, being ushered by capital police and telling one another not to sit in the speakers chair. Ah, but they will show you the scene where someone was shot, which the extended footage shows nearly 3 times as many armed police there than any fiery, but peaceful protestors.",
"Exactly this.. Americans are so out of touch",
"> Because there have been several years of conditioning trying to make right wing synonymous with \"dumb, evil, and wrong;\"\n\nDecades of right wing media pushing anti-science rhetoric and refusing to acknowledge that experts know more than dumb fucks like Tucker Carlson are also partly to blame for this conditioning. The left questions narratives consistently as well, they just don't do it based purely on lies and shit that is made up like the right wingers are currently doing.",
"But but, I thought the media said Rittenhouse was a far right agitator who only wanted to kill innocent leftists. Hmm I'm glad the truth is being told.",
"Was he charged? Nope. Can’t call someone a woman beater when they haven’t been arrested or charged with beating women. But rosenbaum was charged with literally raping children. \n\nOnly on Reddit would a teenager killing a child rapist in self defense would you have people blaming the child. You’re fucking deranged.",
">But where he went wasn't being described as a \"bad neighborhood\" it was described as a place where a riot was being staged. \n\nAt the time a riot is happening any neighborhood is a bad neighborhood.\n\n>no relevant training.\n\nInteresting claim. If he has no relevant training he's the greatest prodigy to ever randomly pick up a firearm.\n\n>We're both right.\n\nYou're half right.\n\n>i don't believe him to be innocent.\n\nIt's okay to be wrong.",
"Which is a lower level of justice than the vigilante justice Kyle was after?",
"Theres video of him running and talking to kyle and neither seemed scared of each other, the police chief said after watching the footage he wouldnt say gaige was chasing him, ifact, gaige asks him why hes running, asks if he shot someone and has an ok interaction",
"You really should though.",
"In a vacuum, sure, pointing a gun can be construed as provoking but this ain’t it. You have to consider the whole series of events. \n\nAnd he said why he was there, on camera, before the shootings took place. Which is probably more reliable than his account on the stand would be anyways.\n\nFact of the matter is that Rosenbaum is on camera being extremely hostile towards people while Kyle isn’t. Kyle was being chased by Rosenbaum. Kyle was fleeing an attacker, not the other way around. Kyle being there was dumb but that’s irrelevant. \n\nEnd of the day, Kyle will walk on the murder charges.\n\nBy your logic, anyone who has a gun pointed at them by police can attack the officer because they were provoked. It’s a stupid point to make here.",
"Lol this article is a joke, it’s one paragraph and doesn’t show physical evidence, or site sources, nor does it say what this “white supremacist hand sign” even is. Of course it’s from the Chicago tribune",
"Gaige testified that he was completely unaware of the first shooting, and that he started chasing, I mean, running behind Rittenhouse in the same general direction as Rittenhouse, not for fear of what Rittenhouse may do to others but rather of what others might do to Rittenhouse.\n\nHe specifically testified that he was worried about Rittenhouse's well-being at being struck with a skateboard, mentioning \"head trauma\", so even the shooting Gaige did witness would have looked like self-defense.\n\nTo fit within the (rather ludicrous) story he'd crafted about being concerned for Rittenhouse's well-being, Gaige should've went with, \"I wanted to protect Rittenhouse with my gun, not shoot him.\"",
"Is your question \"has gunless rioting killed anyone?\", because the answer is yes. Or are you asking \"if, hypothetically, no one brought guns, would anyone have died?\", because that's impossible to prove, but doing things like trying to burn gas stations have at least a fairly significant risk of death.",
"The guy he pointed a gun at did not attack him, and put his arms up to back away",
"It’s fine. People will soon be legally able to inject themselves into situations like this all the time. Can just walk up to people with opposing views and instigate them and shoot them when they react with hostility.",
"Sure it does. If they can show he's not this gentle boy who was just there to \"clean up\", that speaks to his character, that speaks to his intent.",
"From their facebook link, the only text in the status is:\n\n>Gaige Grosskreutz, the only person who survived being shot by Kyle Rittenhouse last year at a chaotic demonstration in Kenosha, Wis., took the stand at Rittenhouse's homicide trial.\nHe acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, but that his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse.\n\nI'm assuming its the same on twitter but haven't looked. The bias is unreal.\n\nEDIT: After the status is the full article. No less biased: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha They conveniently leave out the part in this video where the defense states that his gun was pointed at Rittenhouse when his bicep was blown off and he says: \"Correct\". Very unbiased of them to leave that crucial part out.",
"(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.",
"Witness testimony already proved that to be false. Rosenbaum was already attacking Kyle before Kyle pointed a gun at him. Stop lying.",
"What spin did NPR put on it? The article they linked quotes the witness then explains he changed his statement during trial, what would you do in NPRs situation? Not quote the witness?\n\nhttps://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha",
"From what’s been happening in the trial this far, every witness has been torn apart by the defense and we haven’t even gotten to the defense witnesses. \n\nI doubt he will be found guilty. It’ll either be a hung jury or a not guilty conclusion.",
"That's factually wrong. Learn the facts of the case genius",
"Almost like he didn't really do anything wrong.",
"No I don't trust grosskreutz, he's lied multiple times to cops in his statement. He's a known liar and member of a communist group trying to overthrow the government. Kyle has not lied at any point or done anything illegal.\n\nKyle is on video telling him he's going to the cops to surrender. Leaving the situation. Grosskreutz then drew his gun and ran after him as part of a mob when Kyle was no longer an active shooter. They engaged him and got shot. Self defence",
"Actually it would be more like hearing about a fire in another state then driving over there to do something about it but you brought a gun instead of a fire extinguisher....but ok.",
"Got it. Separate standards for white supremacists. You’re 0-2 on self reports.\n\nYes Kyle shot to kill a man who attempted to kick him and a man who hit with with some wood. So it was perfectly reasonable for Grosskreutz to not only aim his weapon but to shoot to kill the active shooter who was obviously about to shoot to kill him…and he did.\n\nYou’re 0-4 now.",
"> right: pro gun, pro police(unless they are committing an insurrection, then they beat police officers with flags), anti-BLM\n> \n> Left: anti-gun, anti police (brutality), pro BLM\n\nFTFY",
"No they won’t. What the hell are you on?",
"> Matt Gaetz. Donald Trump. Roger Stone. Steve Bannon. All people who deserve prison cells.\n\nLiterally half the people on that hill, and it's entirely bipartisan in deserving.",
"Your Two Assholes Theory is a novelty.",
"After they attacked him he shot them. One was a pedo so I don’t care at all about that, but wasn’t another one using a weapon and he was afraid and a child so he shot? I don’t care what you have to say beyond the scope of what I see in the video",
"The notion that law enforcement is failing and needs to be replaced is a tenet of vigilantism. Like, you're saying the exact things that vigilantes believe. You're making this much harder for yourself lol.",
"Unfortunately that's not admitted into evidence yet so they only have to go on video evidence of Rosenbaum threatening people, committing arson, yelling racial slurs, chasing someone and attempting the grab their gun, witness testimony of his diagnosed bipolar disorder, various medications, having left the 'hospital' the previous night, being warned of avoiding downtown due to danger (due to the situation surrounding the general protests), and any other inferences that the jury may make from the evidence presented.",
"Proven wrong very recently with HD footage from a drone. The first guy is sprinting after Rittenhouse.\n\nAlso the guy in the thread sprinted after him too...not far behind the other guy that tried to cave his head in with a skateboard.",
"If someone's manipulated into doing some awful shit, then yes, I think that should be taken into account when sentencing. If he never shows remorse for what he did, then sure, keep him locked up. But if he turns his shit around, there's no reason he needs to stay behind bars until he dies. Or did you miss the part where the police were hyping him up as some sort of hero for the people? \n\nChrist, reddit's hard against the US prison system's \"punishment over reform\" setup, but any time shit like this happens, they're so quick to jump at life-imprisonment or the death penalty. It sucks that they're dead, but locking up a brainwashed kid isn't bringing em back.",
"Most people calling CNN or MSN \"Left Wing\" are usually the same people who said that Obama was a muslim communist socialist marxist fascist that was going to destroy America. That he also wasn't American and that any policy that isn't hardline rightwing is a socialist plot to destroy america. Spouting that you can trust any mainstream media, while watching Fox News and OANN.",
"I'll admit that while watching the video, it was never clear to me that Kyle has a gun on him first. A water bottle was thrown at him is all I saw before he opened fire.\n\n Kyle is guilty of crimes still and probably went there with the intention to shoot somebody.\n\nBut I'll admit that this part of the incident was self defense.",
"> The agreed-upon definition of active shooter by US government agencies (including the White House, US Department of Justice, FBI, US Department of Education, US Department of Homeland Security, and Federal Emergency Management Agency) is “an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area.” In most cases, active shooters use firearms and there is no pattern or method to their selection of victims.\n\nThat is not what happened in this case at all, spaz.",
"it only seems so obvious to you because you're incapable of considering any perspective other than your own. I think there's a word for that.. it escapes me.",
"You should watch this guy's entire testimony. Very first question he admits to lying. He won't even say he \"chased\" Kyle.",
"Not at all. Rittenhouse was running to the police when they chased him down and threw him to the ground. I take it you didn't watch the videos of that night? It's been publicly available for over a year now. Do your homework.",
"It's like a fire extinguisher, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. He knew this was a dangerous riot and knew that people might attack him but he wanted to help out despite the danger (he is on video offering medical aid and extinguishing fires)",
"Neither did Rittenhouse.",
"Holy shit I didn’t realize people still believed this nonsense. The CNN stranglehold is significant for some I suppose.\n\nhttps://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/new-york-times-capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-fire-extinguisher?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn_feed\n\n“The next day, the New York Times reported Sicknick \"was struck by a fire extinguisher,\" citing two law enforcement officials, prompting other news outlets to echo this reporting. The following week, a retired Pennsylvania fireman, Robert Sanford, 55, was arrested and charged with assaulting law enforcement. Sanford was caught on video and accused of throwing a fire extinguisher at police, but he was not suspected in the death of Sicknick.\n\nIn recent days, CNN reported that investigators have determined that initial reports about Sicknick being hit with a fire extinguisher are not true. One leading theory is that Sicknick was sprayed by an irritant such as bear spray and had a fatal reaction.”",
"I read that as William Shartner.",
"Yeah no one said fleeing a scene is admittance of a crime. You don’t need to strawman when you’re wrong.\n\nWhat these details show is that in the minds of the men who attacked Rittenhouse, he was an active shooter. You are simply saying their knowing he’s an active shooter is unimportant, but Kyle knowing his life is in danger is important. You’re biased into believing only one person’s point of view can be valid - the one you agree with.",
"Right? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The video directly counters what we see with our own eyes in the original videos and this cross-examination. He admits to what the defense attorney said, the NPR article should 100% include that. /u/cdxxmike and /u/RightClickSaveWorld this is the issue.\n\ne: And the damn article should include reference and direct links to original videos, regardless of what witnesses say the video evidence should be given by a functioning news organization.",
"I have hope for that since people on this website of all places are typically agreeing — stupid af of him to be there but still self defense. If Reddit is showing a glimpse of common sense, you’re in good shape lol",
"Uh... I think killing someone constitutes as murder. There was no accident, so manslaughter is off the table. Shooting and killing another human being. Plain and simple, murder. Defense or not, that's literally what you say when you kill a person. You murdered them. You have another term?",
"Haha grosskreutz himself said Kyle was in danger of head trauma in his opinion as a medic. That can be fatal. That's a self defence situation in grosskreutz own words.",
"Actually not irrelevant. Under Wisconsin law self defense with lethal force is not lawful in the commission of a crime unless prompted by equal force.\n\nIf Rittenhouse had a gun illegally and shot two unarmed people regardless of their attempts to disarm him, he would not be entitled to self defense with lethal force.\n\nFurther, if he at any point was the instigator of the incident (if he was verbally assaulting or brandishing his firearm at protesters) at any other point to create the situation we see on most of the videos, he loses his right to self defense with lethal force.\n\nSo the legality of the possession of the firearm is of paramount importance.",
"Legally, attempting to disarm someone who has a gun makes you armed. So when Rosenbaum reached for Rittenhouse's gun, he was no longer unarmed.",
"Read the statute, he doesn't adhere to the guidelines, period.\n\nHe was bearing an illegal firearm that wasn't properly registered, he contributed to the tension he responded to with deadly force, he did not use proportional force, the property he claims he was protecting was not his or his employer's, and he did not exhaust all avenues of escape before using deadly force.",
"Yes I wonder when the next mass shooter will use the self defense bullshit. Get the fuck out of here with your pro-terrorist shit. Fucking pathetic.",
"He wasn't carrying his gun legally.",
"He told the truth? What an asshole!",
"Dude do you work for npr and are butt hurt they got exposed for exactly what I’ve known they’ve been for years? Liars?",
">but yeah, the media reporting of this is just retarded.\n\nWould it surprise you if I said that this kind of reporting is common, if not *outright prevalent*, in the media?",
"He may really be a piece of shit, but let the evidence that night do the talking. In most cases, you can't bring up past convictions as an indicator of guilt - because it creates prejudice.\n\n\nYou have linked an incident that is not related to the case (possibly to reference he wasn't being helpful or polite?). Let the evidence of that night dictate that narrative.",
"Yeah I wasn't involved that early, I got into this conversation when the guy told you you shouldn't be trying to apprehend shooters *anyway* and you argued with that point. However, I did witness the rest, enough to catch what you just did there. \n\n> If the shooter can't shoot me cause he's scared and that's murder\n\nThe \"shooter\" in this case wasn't an active shooter, which is the crux of the issue. In this little fantasy you're assuming the person fleeing is a shooter based on the word of someone else, involving yourself, and taking violent action. However that person isn't a shooter at all, so yes, they're perfectly justified in defending themselves against the angry mob full of go hung twitchy triggers like you who joined in a manhunt based on hearsay. Do you think that person is going to turn around and explain the situation calmly to the 20 disgusting degenerates running after him screeching KILL HIM at the top of their lungs? No, any reasonable person can see they wouldn't be safe doing that. That's why it's important to let the actual trained professionals do it, so you can trust they won't beat the guy to death based on what one random stranger shouted.",
"> except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm\n\nYou getting cornered and beaten by people is \"imminent danger of death or great bodily harm\"",
"Wasn’t talking about Rosenbaum.\n\nWas talking about the guy in the video who gets a gun pointed at him after Kyle trips and falls",
"Grosskreutz testified just before this statement that he witnessed Rittenhouse being attacked and he [Grosskreutz] thinks the attack could have caused \"head trauma\". So why would Grosskreutz think Rittenhouse is an active shooter and not defending himself?\n\nThere's also the statement Grosskreutz is reported to have said that he regretted not unloading into Rittenhouse, so if that was the intention of Grosskreutz, Rittenhouse was justified in eliminating the threat.",
"> There's no point arguing politics with you since you literally don't live in the same reality as the majority of us.\n\nThey really are making absolutely no edict, in terms of these policies, for Congress specifically. \n\nIf that's not a red flag to you, then I'm very sorry about your battered wife syndrome.",
"It is, however, what he said, which is what the article states.",
"> 1: what does NPR, in their headline, claim was the position of Gauge’s hands when he was shot.\n\nThe NPR headline I'm looking at doesn't say anything about his hands.\n\n> 2: what does Gauge, in his testimony, say he was doing when he was shot.\n\nThe NPR article reports him saying the following: \"but said that his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him and that he feared for his life.\" and \"Grosskreutz said he was not intentionally pointing the weapon at Rittenhouse\"\n\nAnd in the video he said \"correct\" in the cross-examination that Rittenhouse didn't fire until after Grosskreutz pointed his gun.",
"When did I say anything about Kyle? \n\nGo back and read the question I was responding to.\n\nHere I'll help: \n>Not trolling, legit question that applies here: Can you claim self defense while in the process of committing a crime?\n\nAt no point did I try to address what Kyle did. I was trying to reason out whether a person could claim self defense while in the process of committing a crime.",
"If you think it's easy to be in a crowd of people, fearingbfor your life, and after being knocked to the ground and struck in the head, and only shoot the people who are immediate threat while not hitting any bystanders.... I'm sorry but that's just internet tough guy bullshit",
"I mean, I'm anti riot, but I'm also anti civilians-bringing-guns-to-riots-to-try-to-stop-them. Lets make no mistake, Kyle is an idiot who brought a lit match to a powder keg, and it's not surprising that someone got killed. That said, it appears that he's not the one who performed that critical escalation, but was acting in self defense.",
"Well, obviously because I wanted that fire to destroy some shit. DUH! Why do you think I started it in the first place?! Gah! Why do I have to explain these things?!",
"How it makes sense to some people to pore over statutory minutiae to demand the death penalty or life in prison for an underaged kid, when any adult one year older would certainly go free for self-defense, is absolutely beyond me.",
"That's actual a fact pattern often taught in law school, and yours is the answer that would lead to legal culpability. Since you don't know what transpired beforehand, you could easily be the aggressor.",
"What would you have wanted your child to do different? Assuming your child is already in that situation, obviously most of us would agree he should have been at home",
"It's a separate charge in the same case and he'll likely be found guilty of it, but it does not affect the other (more serious) charges.",
"Nah",
"Nice comeback you ignorant fuck.",
"Huh? I'm not sure I'm following.",
"Except the defense attorney says \"it wasn't until you advanced on him with your gun pointed at him that he fired his gun at you\" and the guy agrees. That should be in the NPR article.",
"So? Nothing Kyle did was illegal. Ideas are not illegal. Actions are. His actions were perfectly illegal. You just ceded the legal and moral grounds to me. Lol",
"No he can’t legally own or possess a firearm",
"This is the part I struggle with. If someone is chasing you with bare hands with the intent to assault you, is it legal to shoot them?",
"Oh wait this is the THIRD person Kyle shot?\n\nI mean ok, in that case self defense for the third shooting. Doesn't exactly let him off the first two. ......",
"Glad we agree, so it's not murder. Not guilty, case closed.",
"LMAO WUT",
"Yeah they were the ones that started the fires, destroyed business and beat a business owner almost to death....oh wait!",
"Especially a 17 year old kid who isn't legally allowed to be out on the streets with a gun under Wisconsin law.",
"They could have easily avoided being shot if they just didn't attack him",
"> premeditated intent\n\nThis hasn't been proven and in fact has been almost thoroughly dismantled. Have you even been watching the trial?\n\n> felt threatened\n\nHe **was** threatened, verbally by Rosenbaum (\"If I find you alone I'll fucking kill you\") and later physically by Rosenbaum (chased him down and reached for his weapon). Then chased, knocked to the ground, hit with a skateboard and had a pistol drawn and pointed at him. Your wording here is disingenuous to say the least.",
"I just don't see it this way. If you enter a situation like that with a gun and without authorization, you lose the ability to claim self defense. To me, it's like a shootout on the street that both sides signed up for and both committed crimes and none of them get to claim self defense. In a gang shootout, it doesn't matter who shot first. The other person doesn't get to claim self defense.",
"*White lady says that black guy groped her! Lynching him is justice!*\n\nMob \"justice\" isn't justice at all, it's a failure of justice.",
"*He Is StILl A jErKfAcE, hE sHoUlDnT hAvE bEeN tHeRe!*\n\n-Most of reddit right now\n\nWhen reddit collides with facts & reality, the results are often volatile & entertaining.",
"Nah. He murdered them.",
"What do you know, he had an extinguisher too",
">You really aren't seeing this in terms of legal precedent. If it's legal to shoot people you're scared could hurt you then it would absolutely absolve the shooter in this case as well.\n\nPutting these statements back to back is funny. Have you been trolling the whole time, or did you just start now?",
"“He fired into a crowd!”\n\nI hope he sues",
"That’s fair, but in the moment (at night) I don’t see how any one can make an accurate assessment of who a good or bad guy is. Either you listen to the crowd or trust your instincts - or don’t be there in the first place.\n\nLargely I blame the PD for having such shite control about the whole thing. Also for causing it in the first place for executing Floyd.",
"Bingo!",
"That’s exactly what happened.",
"God it must be hard not realizing how fucking stupid you are",
"If Kyle is guilty of what you say then why is he not being charged with said crime? \n\nHe is being charged with unlawful possession of a firearm as a minor. \n\n\nThe gun was purchased legally, but for an illegal person. That makes the possession illegal, not the firearm \n\nTry again",
"Confused Germans",
"You just spun it up like this kid was active shooter attacking innocent people when that is just not the case. So you are now lying too",
"How did he escalate the situation? Traveled across state lines to another city where there was already heightened tensions, openly brandishing a long gun to intimidate protesters. He went there to shoot someone, and he got his chance. \nI am very concerned with the facts. Do not pretend to know me or my intentions, when you don't.",
"No.",
"Disarm him by smashing his head with a skateboard?",
"The hero worship here is infuriating. Also all these fake, \"I'm left-leaning, but was justified\" posts. Bunch of shit.",
"The right is literally actively committing sedition, and yet the \"Left\" is attacking law and order?\n\nDo you work for the gas company? You should be the CEO.",
"Since Grosskreuz managed to have a gun and not kill anyone I think it's fair to say he's not the villain here.",
"Killing 1 person who said \"fuck you\" and grabbed his rifle is not a active shooter, a active shooter would be someone walking down the street shooting random people.\n\nAlso the 1st guy he shot explicitly threatened to kill any member of Kyle's group that he catches earlier when he saw them extinguishing a dumpster fire.",
"Luckily, the law is better written than this.",
"There video evidence of him assaulting a girl but that’s ok",
"Wasn't there evidence that prior to the riot he was talking on social media about wanting to shoot protesters? Or am I thinking of another situation?",
"Let’s try this again:\n\nWhat is the headline, stated by NPR, on their Twitter, about the position of Gauge’s hands. https://www.reddit.com/r/libertarianmeme/comments/qpns7g/about_an_hour_after_gaige_geosskreutz_for_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf\n\nWhat does gauge confirm, on the video from this thread, about what he was doing when he was shot?\n\n\nThe point is simple: NPR claims Gauge had his hands up when he was shot. That is FALSE. His hands were up when Rittenhouse first pulled the rifle on him, he was shot when Rittenhouse moved the rifle off of him and he then drew a gun and pointed it at Rittenhouse. The defense counsel asks if the gun was pointed at Rittenhouse before Gauge was shot, and he answers affirmatively.",
"I think the issue with crossing state borders is that he had a gun he legally shouldn't have had and he took it somewhere he legally shouldn't. If we are talking about a gun with an expired permit, that's obviously not kosher, but to say that is worse than someone who legally has no chance at getting one? I don't think that is right at all.",
"Not at all. He already said his memory was clouded, and the defense walked him in to an answer. The prosecution simply has to show the video and explain frame by frame what happened, what was testified and what you see in the video are not the same thing, I have no idea why everyone is so hung up on what he said, when it's clear in the video that's not what happened.",
"I'm sure he will be fine.\n\nsomehow I don't think he will get 12 years but we will see",
"If the people being prosecuted are white and it could be argued they had a racial motivation, the press coverage goes through the roof, it will be posted on reddit and pumped up artificially by admins, and it will make news around the world. If they are not white, then it never gets this big unless it is a celebrity.",
"They could have ran away.",
"That's very misleading because the alleged murders happened before the Grosskreutz confrontation. So whatever his testimony was in regards to being shot by Rittenhouse doesn't really apply to what happened before it.",
"The prosecutors who SHOULD BE SEEKING TRUTH IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE are disappointed when the TRUTH comes out, disappointed they didnt get to sweep that TRUTH under the rug. Fuck Kyle Rittenhouse the little bastard for even being there with a rifle but fuck these prosecutors for their obvious disdain for the truth as well.",
"“But he crossed state lines!”\n\n-people with bo good arguments",
"https://twitter.com/pjkennedy6/status/1455645196415344649?s=20\n\nRip your argument.",
"Can you claim self defense if you yourself are a obvious threat to those around you? Guess it comes down to if you think it's reasonable for him to fear for his life from a guy with a skateboard",
"So I never really got into this case? Is the concensus that Rittenhaus is innocent? I thought he shot and killed two people before shooting Grosskreutz?",
"There's a reason people don't like lawyers.",
"Exactly. Fox News is the one truth everyone else is demonized.",
"also, remember all those people who got convicted and sent to prison for lying to congress and the FBI during the russia probe? michael flynn, trumps national security advisor, and michael cohen, trumps personal lawyer being two of the most notable examples lol. \n\nbut of course... it's \"the left\" that's \"attacking order\" while trump fans are storming our institutions of democracy and trying to overturn legitimate elections.",
"https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/\n\nIt was actually 93%, but I wouldn't consider that a 'lie'",
">Were his actions self-defense according to state law? Based on the evidence, it certainly looks that way.\n\nSo were his victims. The situation is one in which everyone was legally acting in self-defense based on available info. The difference is that as you point out Kyle was an instigator of the situation, confronting unarmed people with his rifle out as shown in the video. The fact that he shouldn't have been there and shouldn't have had that gun will have legal weight in determining whether his right to self defense included the right to murder anyone else who was acting in their own self-defense by attempting to stop what they thought was a potential mass shooter. He is going to prison.",
"The MAGA kid knows the way of it. Rittenhouse may follow him.",
"I agree with this. When it was happening people were following him because they were uncomfortable with a kid open carrying a weapon. But them following him put him on edge...which put the crowd even more on edge. He could have just took his hands off his gun and held them up and people would have relaxed, but he didn't, and that's what made the crowd want to disarm him.\n\nEveryone was scared and acted poorly. That's why no one should be allowed to carry, especially like that.",
"Again, you need to watch the trial and stop going based off news headlines you’ve read. That is not what happened.",
"Oh it’s very clear you’re still battling it if you think he joined up with them after this. \n\nHe went there wanting to fucking kill people",
"You go somewhere with a rifle knowing there will be conflict... how dumb are you?",
"Free my man kyle. He defended his community from those who would do it harm.",
"I mean, that's more than the victims the judge labeled \"rioters, looters, or arsonists\" get, but the fact of the matter is that Rittenhouse doesn't satisfy the requirements for a perfect self defense plea.\n\nHe was bearing an illegal firearm that wasn't properly registered, he contributed to the tension he responded to with deadly force, he did not use proportional force, the property he claims he was protecting was not his or his employer's, and he did not exhaust all avenues of escape before using deadly force.\n\nRead the Wisconsin state statute.",
"You seemed to have made plenty of decisions in your initial post.",
"I don't even know how to address this outside of maybe pointing out the fact that you're accusing others of being political and bending reality, then going on to paint Rittenhouse as a courageous protector.\n\nYou've got a very, very obvious bias here and you're pretending you don't, which feels really deceptive, at face value.",
"Kyle could have stayed at home. It could have been storming so nobody showed up. The cops could have stopped people from open carrying weapons into the crowd. \n\n\n\nNone of these statements answer the question",
"What does intent have to do with self defense or not though? The law in Wisconsin, in summary, says you lose your right when you commit a crime/put yourself in that position, but you can regain that right by retreating/fleeing the situation. Kyle clearly did that. Again I’m not defending his character or his decision to be there, but I don’t think that would effect the trial.",
"Okay but you do understand if I'm in active shooter situation I'm not going to always KNOW whether someone is the shooter or not right? There is a good probability that I'm in a closet and if the guy comes in and I try to grab him does that mean he is exculpated from my death cause I try to hit him with a chair? The whole point is what you can do without absolute knowledge and I think it is absolutely scary precedent to say, 'yeah you can shoot people if you're scared.' Active shooter status won't matter cause in the example I mentioned I DONT KNOW if the guys an active shooter. If legality is based on gnosticism that's a scary way to define legality.",
"Tell us you haven't watched any of the trial without telling us you haven't watched any of it.",
"If you read on you will see that this nullification does not apply in situations where the accused had reason to believe that they faced an imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm.",
"The first shot was to the front and the one to the back was as rosembaum overextended and fell forward",
"Just wondering here, but where are you from. Please say Canada.",
"It's a shame our country is full of stupid people who do not care about details. Only themes. And the theme this is pushing is that white boy with gun wins again.",
"According to the law of the state he wasn’t supposed to be in. Carried a gun across state lines illegally. He went looking to shoot someone, and if he gets away with it then the whole justice system is fucked lol",
"Considering the guys asked where he was running and he answered, \"to the police,\" which were in the direction that he was running to, maybe they should have fucked off.",
"The fact that he travelled across state lines with an illegal gun to go to a protest?",
"You reply with a logical statement he/she replies with a personal attack. Bullies are funny, but ones with blind identity politics agendas are scary.",
"The police can't you under oath, right?",
"1. You understand that we are talking about *this particular event* and you’ve chosen to play stupid anyway and talk about “all hypothetical events.”\n\n2. You straight up ignored 50% of my question because it was inconvenient to you and improve my for you to try to bend over backwards to handwave away like point #1.\n\nI will repeat myself since you’re dense and need a second attempt:\n\nSome people at that event had guns. The rest did not. Which of the two demographics in *that event* killed people?\n\nDid the prescience of guns at the “riot” stop it from existing?",
"He took a swing to get Kyle off of momentum, and immediately tried to grab the gun with his hands afterwards\n\nIt’s on the video for you to see",
">If we assume all parties are acting with honest intentions after the first shooting, who's self defense is the 'real' self defense?\n\nYou may be 100% correct. I don't necessarily know and as I say elsewhere, what I really want is that this court is allowed to decide the truth independently. Right now it feels hard as an outsider to determine the truth.",
"The entire point of lawyers is to try and get away with spinning facts to fit their narrative. That's why you'd have to be a total damned LOON to represent yourself.",
"They are humans not robots",
"[948.60 - Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60)\n\n>(2) \n> \n>(a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. \n> \n>(b) Except as provided in par. (c), any person who intentionally sells, loans or gives a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a Class I felony. \n> \n>(c) Whoever violates par. (b) is guilty of a Class H felony if the person under 18 years of age under par. (b) discharges the firearm and the discharge causes death to himself, herself or another. \n> \n>(d) A person under 17 years of age who has violated this subsection is subject to the provisions of ch. 938 unless jurisdiction is waived under s. 938.18 or the person is subject to the jurisdiction of a court of criminal jurisdiction under s. 938.183.\n\nHe's not legally allowed to buy one, he's not legally allowed to carry one, and he's not legally allowed to fire one at the age of 17. The only exception to this is if he were at a registered gun range with the supervision of a parent, or if he were in the military/national guard and actively engaged in a military operation. I don't think the streets of Kenosha qualify.",
"You might find this interesting. Here are some of Engels' thoughts on rioting.\n\nhttp://www.whatnextjournal.org.uk/Pages/Back/Wnext19/Engels.html\n\n> To make a revolution – and that à propos de rien, when and where they liked – they thought nothing else was required but the paltry tricks sufficient to \"boss\" an agitation for any vile fad, packed meetings, lying in the press, and then, with five and twenty men secured to back them up, appealing to the masses to \"rise\" somehow, as best they might, against nobody in particular and everything in general, and trust to luck for the result.\n\n.\n\n> These socialist gentlemen want to conjure up a movement by force and over night, something that here as elsewhere necessarily takes years of work; though it is also the case that, once it is under way and imposed on the masses through historic events, it may develop far more quickly here than on the Continent. But people like these cannot wait, and this leads to childish actions such as we are usually accustomed to seeing only from the anarchists.\n\n.\n\n> What has been achieved – among the bourgeois public – is the identification of socialism with looting, and even though that does not make the matter much worse, still it is certainly no gain to us.",
">\tThe US doesn’t look too bad if you only compare to corrupt, highly violent countries, many of which are borderline lawless.\n\nGreat job beating Belize, South Africa, and Venezuela, famously peaceful and stable countries.",
"Economic standing is EXACTLY the problem. Police are patrolling the middle class and up neighborhoods looking for a ticket to hand out.",
"Yah, maybe we can just avoid protests entirely as they seem to be pretty dangerous.",
"why wouldn't he lie? You can attempt to commit murder and lie about so many other things but can't lie about the most important thing. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nI am absolutely amazed he wasn't compelled via threats of purgery and dragged back through all the physical evidence before he finally conceded this point. I mean, good for him. \n\nCase over. \n\nAlso, #SeePeopleDieInside as he realizes this testimony just lost him his civil case and the shot at $10M and should probably see purgery charges on the other case for contradictory testimony on having a gun etc.",
"Boy, you’re gonna be really surprised by this verdict!",
"Lethal self defense by law requires there to be a subjective and objective threat of immediate bodily harm. If someone is attempting to get away you can’t attack them. It doesn’t matter what they did or what you think they are going to do. You aren’t the police and you aren’t the military. The law is set up in such a way to discourage you from trying to be the hero and taking the law into your own hands.",
"Annd aquittal coming. Beautifully done, this shouldnt have even gone to court.",
"Rittenhouse was running away while being chased by people that had already attacked him, then he tripped and multiple people advanced on him, that's when he shot the three people.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iryQSpxSlrg\n\nOpen and shut self defence case, which is why nobody sane is unsurprised the prosecution is in shambles.",
"Only in a clown world can someone be on trial for their life for shooting at a sexual deviant leftist extremist and drug-addict that was attacking him in the first place",
"I think its a stretch for the skateboarder and works for the gun pointing at him, but there are two other murders that are unclear imo",
"Before he killed Rosenbaum with 4 shots, one of which was in the back? Yea, I agree he was trying to de-escalate there. Running away from the scene was a huge mistake for Kyle.",
"Yeah maybe if they had shot Rittenhouse at some imaginary point when he was chasing them with a gun they could have shot him and claimed self defence.\n\nThey certainly couldn't after they had chased Rittenhouse whilst threatening to kill him. Had they shot him it would have been straight up murder.",
"Guns kill the people starting fires when they attack you for putting the fire out",
"Laughably false",
"Yeah a day later",
"Can you show me any of these cideos",
"Yea just keep defending blatant media lies. You don't even have a refutation.",
"Judge should have thrown the case out as soon as this witness left the stand.",
"So Grosskreutz lied, and not NPR.",
"Why does all the other stuff not matter? Seems like all this could have been avoided if he stayed home in his own state. His actions lead to this, we all know he went looking to shoot people",
"> unless prompted by equal force.\n\nthis has nothing to do with the gun being \"legal\" or not. and yes Kyle was defending himself from deadly force. \n\nsomeone aggressively trying to remove a gun from you IS deadly force. this is well known. Go try to grab a cop's gun and see what happens in the trial after they shoot you. \n\nin that whole paragraph you don't say how the legality of owning the gun matters at all. you just argue kyle's life was not in danger which is obviously not accurate.",
"Can an active shooter kill someone trying to kill them and then claim self defense?",
"Yeah this was also the THIRD person Kyle shot. Couldn't this guy just say \"yeah I pointed a gun at him because he shot two people already\"? \n\nCan you not stand your ground for others? I know that's the police job, but does stand your ground not allow you to defend others? \n\nIsn't that what Kyle claimed all along too?",
"Facts? You wouldn't know a fact of what happened in Kenosha if it bit you in the ass. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nI am sure CNN supplied you with your \"facts\".",
"I'm more worried about the message it sends to all the other psychopaths if he can get away with killing political enemies because he was scared",
"First guy tried to grab his gun and chased after Kyle. Second guy tried to bash his head in with a skateboard.",
"Maybe watch some of the case and footage before trying to politicize a clear-cut case of self defense.",
"I know sophisticated legal arguments are hard to understand. If you don't get it I can explain it to you.",
"the fuck you even on about....\n\nno wait this isn't bait hahaha",
"Nothing except the last point has any bearing on whether or not it was self defense. In fact, you are not required to attempt to escape a potentially deadly situation; you are entitled to take deadly force to preserve your life. However, Kyle was literally running away from every person he shot. \n\nThe first one told him he would kill Kyle before trying to grab his gun. The second one attacked him with a skateboard. The third pointed a gun at him. These are the facts, have a nice day.",
"They've been lied to for so long by mainstream media, I'd almost call them victims. Even now the Associated Press and every other outlet is framing this in a way that casual observers of the headlines will see it as Kyle just murdering BLM supporters.",
"I love that you really believe this.",
"Right. Or in this case. You fucking shoot someone and then aim a gun at someone who is afraid you will shoot them",
"OHHH NO! Please tell me they were able to save that precious used car lot.",
"If my neighbourhood, home and livelihood were a target, I'd be with neighbours. Protest is one thing, ruining people's lives is another.\n\nThen again, in my country people don't come out with guns like that.",
"Guns shoot pretty far.",
"They advanced because he pointed his gun at someone when he tripped and fell.\n\nThey were trying to stop him from shooting",
"Go back to Russia Vlad",
"Your reasoning does not support the statute. No person, regardless of age, has the statutory authority to engage as a vigilante street combatant, even in “support” of the police. \nAny acts of violence committed in pursuit of vigilante goals would be unlawful and not considered justified.",
"Then why did you bring up Kyle fleeing the scene as some sort of reason someone should be convinced they are an active shooter?\n\nKyle knew he was in danger because there was a large man charging at full speed, yelling insults, and throwing shit at Kyle. That’s someone witnessing an act and making a judgment that is understandable. \nIf a large man is charging at you while yelling and throwing shit, are you assuming he’s going to hug you or attack you? He’s obviously going to attack you. So it’s very understandable to presume without much doubt that you will be attacked. \n\nBut fleeing a scene and people yelling an accusation isn’t enough to presume someone is an active shooter, especially when you literally talked to them and they told you they’re going to the police. \n\nThat’s enough though, you’re ignoring facts so logic isn’t much use to you and not worth speaking to.",
"> That Constitutional right is not LIKELY to provoke others to attack.\n\nI agree, they should not be likely to provoke. But I can definitely see some leftists using the wording to claim that 'regular' persons might be provoked. And this statute has never been tried in court (afaik) and thus there is no case law to reference how it will be interpreted in the courts. One of the reasons Kyle's case may become interesting, although I have not yet seen the signals that prosecution is intending to take this route.",
"Vigilante killings are very illegal. That's not even contentious that's just basic law.\n\nIf your response is \"okay he's a vigilante so what?\" then you've just conceded the point lmao.",
"> He is recorded before the riots as wishing to shoot people to death.\n\nThe prosecutor doesn't have this important evidence. You need to act and get this crutial evidence to Kenonsha NOW!!",
"Forgive me cause I don't know this case at all, but didn't Rittenhaus shot and kill two other people before this?",
"how about we wait for a jury to give the verdict? or are you a lawyer too? in wisconsin?",
"At least you're right about one thing.",
"You want a convicted child rapist back on this earth? What exactly are your morals?",
"\"Well if she didn't want to be raped, maybe she shouldn't have walked alone at night.\" \n\nThe legality of him having the weapon is still undecided. The crossing state lines is entirely meaningless, you can put that back in the deck. And your last bit is worthless speculation. Get some better material.",
"Now do homicides by firearms per capita.",
"What, you mean that surprise confessions, witness flipping, and unexpected statements in fits of passion are simply ways for movies to make events more interesting, and are not commonplace?",
"Trump lost lol cry about it pussy",
"I'll admit I was wrong on this one, couldn't see it clearly in the video. \n\nBut this was the third person he shot. I think it's being pushed HEAVILY as if this let's Kyle off the hook for all three.",
"Of course you love SNL too lmao\n\n> i'm gonna go heavy dose of tucker carlson topped off with some joe rogan, and a nightcap of alex jones.\n\nWhy would I watch that right wing trash?",
"They were lacking detail to make the point and I think they did a great job explaining overall. A situation like the ones described would need a lot more information than provided to make an informed decision, it was omitted because its not vital to the point being made, hence why it is crude.",
"Okay, but he brought the car to the scene of the crime without a license, then proceeded to kill people with said car.\n\nDid Rittenhouse know Grosskreutz was carrying his weapon illegally? As far as he'd know, he's pointing the gun as a law abiding citizen. It really isn't a factor that Grosskreutz is illegally possessing a weapon, Rittenhouse doesn't get a pass because of this. It just means there will be separate consequences for Grosskreutz as well.",
">Should Kyle have stayed the fuck home? Yes.\n\nNo. He has the right to be outside, just like anyone else.\n\n> Did he have any business walking the streets armed with a rifle? Definitely not.\n\nOpen carry is legal in Wisconsin. Him being under 18 is probably a misdemeanor. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Wisconsin#Open_carry\n\n> Were his actions self-defense according to state law? Based on the evidence, it certainly looks that way.\n\nAgreed.",
">It's a dumb kid that got put into a dangerous situation (by his own choices) but that doesn't make him a cold blooded murderer.\n\nYes, however it does make him guilty of homicide. The self defense argument is not going to to overcome the fact that his presence and prior actions instigated the event.",
"It's not even a matter of Kyle's assailants leaving. Kyle was leaving - towards the police. The mob was pursuing him.\n\nIt's funny how every video starts with Kyle running away from violent situations, only firing his weapon once they catch up to him and are inescapable.",
">If Kyle is guilty of what you say then why is he not being charged with said crime? \n\nHe can be charged with possession of an illegal firearm at any time between now and the point the statute of limitations runs out.\n\nIt's still illegal to be in possession of an illegal firearm that isn't properly registered.\n\n>He is being charged with unlawful possession of a firearm as a minor. \n\nYes, that is another one of his crimes.\n\n>The gun was purchased legally, but for an illegal person. That makes the possession illegal, not the firearm \n\nStraw purchased firearms are illegal purchases.\n\n>Try again\n\nSaying that over and over won't make Rittenhouse somehow in line with the Wisconsin state statute for self defense.\n\nHe was bearing an illegal firearm that wasn't properly registered, he contributed to the tension he responded to with deadly force, he did not use proportional force, the property he claims he was protecting was not his or his employer's, and he did not exhaust all avenues of escape before using deadly force.",
"Nobody has time to watch everything to get each detail",
"It’s justified because he went there looking to kill",
"It is a right to defend yourself, period. Its a legal term because the laws set the precedent of what is a natural given right everyone has to life. If someone is threatening you then you can respond.\n\nIts not legal talk its real talk. If you were dropped into a field with other people and no government oversight then your right to defend yourself would be unhindered. Kyle also had the right to go to the protest and help people. Kyle may not have legally possessed the firearm but neither did Grosskreutz. That doesn't change his right to defend himself.\n\nKyle not only was in the right morally and legally but he practiced serious discipline in his handling of the firearm. That doesn't make him a hero, but it does show that this trial is a farce.",
"Look at the little baby mad at facts",
">That's some peak whataboutism.\n\nIt's not whataboutism if it's about the the same incident and a direcrly involved party.",
">He decided to go to a city he didn't belong, during a time he knew it was dangerous, openly looking for trouble. He's not the victim in my eyes.\n\nA city he didn’t belong? Wtf? He lived 20 minutes away. Grosskreutz lived even further away. Ok, girl goes to a bar in a rowdy part of town she doesn’t belong in, wearing nearly nothing and openly taunting men to rape her. She gets raped. But she’s not a victim and it’s her fault right? What a disgusting human being you are.",
"/r/politics in shambles",
"Only if its a felony.",
"I think there person is referring to an older NPR article about the indecent, not the NPR article from yesterday",
"Peaceful protest*",
"**Gun laws in Wisconsin** \n \n [Open carry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Wisconsin#Open_carry) \n \n >Open carry is legal anywhere concealed carry is legal. It is legal for all adults unless they are prohibited from possession of firearms. Wisconsin state law 948. 60(2)(a) states: \"Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor\".\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"I love how the defense is trying to establish self defense by saying \"well, he was pointing a gun at a guy, but he didn't shoot him until the other guy pulled a gun.\" I'm not a law talking guy, but it seems to me that when a guy with a ~~more powerful~~ weapon points it at you, they can't then claim self defense when you also pull a gun.",
"The lack of critical thinking and the eagerness to generalize and divide will doom this nation.",
"Gaige testified to both statements, but they chose to run the lie front and center.",
"Funny how you're so dead set on arguing down a dialog tree that anything that breaks from that upsets you this much.",
"Legally? Yes, I assume you can. I mean, the legal standard for self-defense is usually only defined as a \"reasonable person would feel threatened with great bodily harm\" or somesuch. It all comes down to a jury and I just hope in this case, whatever the outcome, that the jury decides correctly based on the evidence not because they are swayed one way or another.",
"It somewhat matters to this trial that the rioters should also have stayed home, since one of the charges (now dismissed by the judge, I believe) was that Rittenhouse broke curfew.\n\nLikewise, it somewhat matters to this trial that Gaige illegally carried a firearm, since one of the charges (still possible to be dismissed by the judge) was that Rittenhouse illegally carried a firearm. One of the defense lawyers alluded to the selective application by the state of the firearm misdemeanor charge when he asked Gaige if he had been charged with illegal use of his firearm.",
"Republicans are what is wrong with the world.",
"\"The leftists\" haha. Clearly you're not viewing reality through a partisan lense.",
"Exactly, a jury let Casey Anthony walk, you don't know what each juror is thinking or taking in.",
"I mean allegedly sexually assaulting his ex-girlfriend, while allegedly reaching for a knife. \n\nThis is what happens when things don’t get to go to court.",
"After Kyle shot two people, a guy with a skateboard tried to disarm him\n \nAre you suggested that was attempted murder?",
"The shooting of the witness can and should be considered self-defense. But this video is purposely shortened to remove context. Rittenhouse was supposedly already an active shooter and that’s why the witness drew his weapon. But then he had misgivings pulling the trigger and got shot for it",
"Was it not illegal for him to be carrying a weapon in that state?",
"Perfect take",
"What's self-defence have to do with race?",
"“The facts don’t align with my biases therefore a narrative is being pushed”",
"Not quite true, I'm pro gun.\n\nHe didn't run away until after he'd already put himself in a stupid situation.\n\nHe was all big and tough intimidating people with his militia buddies until shit got real and then he had to run away after it already went to hell.\n\nThat doesn't give anyone a right to try a kill him (the other assholes) but it's still pretty clear what side of asshole he's on.",
"Jesus Christ how many things are you going to ignore just to avoid taking Kyle's side? Who gives a shit about the political implications or gun control in America during a court case? Those things aren't on trial, he is. And this is a clear case of self defense where an emboldened mob spearheaded by the victims tried to chase and beat down a teenager who just happened to armed and quicker than them. Kyle was actively trying to leave the situation at every single step. It doesn't matter what weapon he had, how old he was, or why he was there.",
"Good thing he didn't vigilante kill anyone. He shot people in self defence who tried to kill him of their own accord.",
"Lmao. Each comment he outdoes himself on stupidity from the comment before. Hilarious.",
"So, to be clear, you aren't reading an article, just an excerpt from an article taken out of context in a Facebook synopsis, and claiming bias from that.",
"Except it actually is seeing as he shot at the guy testifying",
"Yeah, I don't get what this guy is saying. There's no such thing as a perjury charge for lying to someone when you aren't under oath. Might as well say it's illegal to lie to the librarian or the garbage man\n\nIn fact, the myth that it's illegal to lie to cops is a form of state propaganda. Because, fun fact, cops can lie to you too.",
"Source?",
"Yeah, it was a terrible idea and a disaster waiting to happen.\n\nBut from a legal perspective, just because it was a terrible idea to go there doesn’t mean it’s illegal to defend yourself once you get attacked.\n\n\n Rittenhouse’s plan to cross state lines with a firearm to attend a heated protest was really, really stupid and assholish. But it doesn’t make his actions while he was there illegal.",
"I dont think saying you are getting the police, and then running towards the police is threatening",
"Yes, because they purposefully omitted testimony from Grosskreutz where he stated that Kyle Rittenhouse did not shoot him until he (Grosskreutz) pointed his gun at him. They willfully omitted testimony that contradicts that statement in order to paint a narrative that wasn't true.",
"That second paragraph is so baffling when taken with the first paragraph that you don't actually seem like a rational, functional human being.",
"everywhere I've lived, the police's main concern seems to be writing tickets, rather than helping people. not to say that I haven't observed plenty of helpful officers that help people change tires or whatever... but for the most part, it's just meeting quotas and power tripping. \n\nuntil recently anyway. now i live in a city with such inadequate funding and all kinds of other systemic issues that the police's main concern has devolved into just parking on the freeway that goes around the city to try and discourage highway shootings where road ragers just fire bullets at other cars while driving down the highway.",
"By design. They want people angry and divided.",
"They're in commission of a crime and presenting an active threat to safety and well being of others for the sake of maliciousness, so no.\n\nNow, a robber who flees your property, only for you to chase him down the street and while trying to kill him, *can* claim self defense for killing you. He is no longer actively committing a crime and is no longer threatening you.",
"State lines actually matter whereas distance is irrelevant. States have the liberty to dictate their own set of laws, which is the premise of states rights. So, Kyle crossing state lines while illegally possessing a firearm will certainly not bode well.",
"So we want vigilante justice? Is that what you're arguing for?",
"No, Rittenhouse didn't break federal law to obtain the gun. His friend, Dominic Black, has been charged with intent to sell a dangerous weapon to someone under 18 under State Statute 948.60(2)(c) - a class H felony . The case has not been concluded and there is a pending motion to dismiss from last summer that is still before the judge. \n\nThe state did NOT charge Black or anyone with a \"straw purchase\" which is a violation of State Statute 941.2905 and a class G felony. The feds have not charged Black either.",
"Whoa! I had no idea this dude had a gun too. Funny how that seems to have been left out of major news. Rittenhouse is a total dipshit but this dipshit was legitimately defending himself.",
">Based on the video the killings are pretty easy to justify as self defense\n\nSo if I write in my diary before showing up to a protest:\n\n\"Today I'm going to a protest with a rifle and hope that I get in situation where I can kill someone and get away with it.\"\n\nIf I kill someone that night, is it self defence? Can a video showing \"self defence\" absolve me of guilt when my intent all along was to kill someone?\n\nWhile it's unlikely to prove in court that Kyle Rittenhouse went their with that motive, that motive is the reason people call him a murderer.",
"Citizen's arrest on a person carrying a rifle is a darwin award.",
"but we do know what transpired beforehand. he killed 2 people, with a gun he shouldnt have been handling.",
"I see. Dude brought a skateboard to a gun fight nice.",
"Does the defense expect \"well I had the gun on him but I didn't shoot until he pulled his gun out\" to establish self defense? Seems to me that if you start the altercation, you bring deadly force into the equation first, it doesn't really matter if deadly force is brought on you. Or at least you shouldn't be able to just get off scot free for it.",
"Even if the gun was possessed illegally, that doesn’t mean it can’t be used in self defense. The legality of the firearm isn’t relevant.",
"Kyle Rittenhouse is a terrorist and nothing will ever change that.",
"Prosecution looking like fools. Rittenhouse is going to easily walk as he should based on the testimony.",
"Why is this such a big fucking deal now??? We all saw this on video MONTHS AGO....",
"Isn't calling a pedo an asshole a little redundant?",
"You are wrong. He wasn’t allowed to conceal carry. He was allowed to own a gun. Get your facts straight",
"Surprised? My dude the US is a fascist country. Why would I be surprised?",
"There are a lot of people very invested in proving that this kid is a horrible person, as it will validate their feelings on guns.",
"You're the one already calling them victims, how about we wait for the jury to give the verdict? or are you a lawyer too? in wisconsin?",
"So you are against self defense laws?",
"You mean, America? Yeah...it's a bummer.",
"They wanted Rittenhouse to be guilty so bad because of his allegiances. Dudes an ass but all the evidence points to self defense so might as well accept it. Always ironic when people bitch about fair trials until it's someone they don't like.",
"He still was running away to start with, Rosenbaum ran him down. If trying to put out fires counts as instigating a fight then idk what to tell you",
"How about you wait for the verdict and let the big boys who know what's going on talk in the meantime.",
"You’re right you’re not a law talking guy",
"It feels like the Boulder ['white male'](https://www.newsweek.com/flurry-white-male-shooter-tweets-spark-backlash-after-boulder-suspects-identity-released-1578179) mass shooter incident all over again. Our media/reddit feeds off any white guy who they can try to label as racist/crazy while committing a potential crime. It is like everyone has a field day to say whatever racist shit they want since they apparently have a pass on racist shit to white people.",
"He was trying to leave the situation at just about every step. He only stopped when a shot was fired or when he was being attacked. And once the threat was dealt with, he went back to retreating. Pretty much the definition of self defense.",
"So if someone fucking murders two people in front of me I’m not allowed to pull my gun out? \n\nOnly the murderer gets a gun. \n\nFuck outta here",
"yes",
"can you link to that please?",
"Innocent my ovaries",
"The funny thing is, I never voted for Trump. And if recalling that he lost the election helps you cope with the Rittenhouse case, have at it buddy.",
"I dunno. If you’ve been following the case it’s pretty evident it shouldn’t have gone to trial in the first place.",
"It’s so great. Bunch of cry babies there",
"How did Rittenhouse obtain his gun?",
"I like how in your mind leftist is equivalent to being a pedophile or whatever. The only thing that matters is that this jackass chased Kyle and pointed a gun at him.",
"Tell me you’re a racist without saying it. Fuck you post in r/libertarian. Guess you already said it.",
"Which he later contradicted and said that he wasn't shot until after he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. Why do you think they omitted that from the article? Do you think that might have been a pretty crucial detail?",
"I'm so confused by this... Rittenhouse killed a person and then shot the people that tried to stop him from fleeing.\n\nDoes this mean I can go into a crowd of people, and shoot one, and shoot anyone that tries to stop me in the name of \"self-defense\"? So if a citizen pulls a gun and says \"stop\" I can shoot them because im afraid they will shoot me?",
"the headline there says 'gaige grosskreutz, shot by kyle rittenhouse in kenosha, takes the stand at his trial'",
"Are you 9?",
"No, it's clear that NPR is reporting on what was said in court without adding an editorial comment. Maybe you've seen something else that illustrates your point, maybe not, but this absolutely doesn't.",
"100% agreed and I live here surrounded by them. Send help",
"“I’m defending myself by driving across state lines with a gun, insitgating shit and finally killing multiple fucking people.",
"https://ktla.com/news/local-news/ex-lapd-officer-arrested-charged-in-off-duty-2019-fatal-shooting-at-corona-costo-california-ag/\n\nso did that cop defend himself too by that logic, he was hit so he shot inside a costco.....",
"my kid would not inject himself into this situation. Going to a protest 40 minutes away from his home, in another state, illegally obtaining a gun, then running around a city with it. I've taught my kid better than that. and if he was mine, I'd be fucking ashamed of him.",
"Rittenhouse also had a gun in his hand. Why can Rittenhouse have their gun out, but not Gaige, prior to anyone being shot?",
"Trump lost pussy lmaooo",
"Crazy how uneducated you sound. Crazy how with sooooo much actual footage, this is even up for debate…hope you can one day think rationally",
"Yeah how about we follow the law and see what happens",
"You're a very fearful person, it's kind of pathetic",
"The first person Kyle shot?\n\nI haven't seen any proof anything except a plastic water bottle was used \n\nThe second guy has a skateboard and was trying to disarm him\n\nThe third, yeah, pointed a gun. \n\nHow do stand your ground laws work? They let Kyle shoot him for pointing a gun, but not allow the other guy to point a gun at Kyle despite him having just shot two people?\n\nIs that NOT the good guy with a gun?\n\nAnd people argue for MORE gun rights??",
"It’s worth noting that Kyle had just shot two people right in front him immediately before this happens",
"For the same reason it’s usually legal for people to open carry, but they require a permit you have to take classes for in order to concealed carry. Concealed carrying is a bigger deal.",
"THIS is a rampant issue right now. It's one of the biggest reasons for massive division within the US.",
"Why? He's more proficient with them than 99% of the people that carry them. Cops being first on that list...",
"first of all, people protesting in the streets in washington DC over issues like police brutality and racial equality is not the same as breaking into the fucking chambers of congress to try to overturn democracy. \n\nsecondly, the jan 6th crowd had plenty of people who were armed. maybe not with firearms... but there were tasers, mace, makeshift clubs. that cop that got beaten to death with a fire extinguisher while you could hear people around him yelling to grab his gun... and then all those guys who were seen roaming around with riot cuffs like they were going in to take hostages. that's not a good look.",
"He's a piece of shit who deserves to hang.",
"They didn't lie though. What they reported was true.",
"Kid is a murderer and you want to worship him. Reconsider your life.",
"Unfortunately once he gets a not guilty judgement we’ll have to deal with endless hot takes about how terrible the justice system is.",
">Nothing except the last point has any bearing on whether or not it was self defense. \n\nThe question is whether or not his claim is perfect or imperfect, an imperfect claim can not shield one from charges.\n\n>In fact, you are not required to attempt to escape a potentially deadly situation;\n\nYou do in Wisconsin when you're committing a crime or contributing to the tension you respond to with deadly force.\n\n>you are entitled to take deadly force to preserve your life. \n\nAnd if you don't meet the requirements for a perfect self defense plea then you aren't shielded from charges.\n\n>However, Kyle was literally running away from every person he shot. \n\nHe didn't exhaust all avenues of escape, he turned back around toward the first victim even though he could have kept moving away from the area.\n\nHe was bearing an illegal firearm that wasn't properly registered, he contributed to the tension he responded to with deadly force, he did not use proportional force, the property he claims he was protecting was not his or his employer's, and he did not exhaust all avenues of escape before using deadly force.",
"You're just linking a heavily edited version of events. People were *chasing* after him, screaming \"get him!\", and trying to hit him on his back when they caught up to him.\n\nIf you were in that situation and tripped, wouldn't you point the gun behind you to stop your obvious pursuers from taking you out?",
">What matters is that Rittenhouse had a gun pointed at him by a person whom he reasonably believed wished to maim or kill him. And he responded to that threat.\n\nSo if i cross you on the street and point my weapon at you, and you in response unholster yours and and that moment i shoot you\n\nWould that be considered self-defense on my part? I see you taking a weapon out and i fear for my life so by your logic i'm allowed to kill you.\n\nBecause thats exactly what happened between kyle and gaige. Kyle had just shot someone and now had his weapon aimed at gaige, gaige unholsters his and kyle shoots him\n\nIts pretty much a loophole for legalized murder",
"No. Did you read anything in your source except \"U.S.\" and \"32nd\"? Suicide numbers are excluded. \n\nYou have 7 times as much deadly gun violence as Pakistan and slightly more than Somalia.\n\nAlso do you know how many countries there are, dude? 32nd is not good.",
"You are really not taking this whole \"being wrong\" thing very gracefully. Take a deep breath. It's okay to be wrong occasionally.",
"Weird, every liberal I know has been saying it's pretty clear-cut self defense for the past year, but every far lefty I know is seething right now.\n\nGuess that makes you all \"literally fascists\" too.",
"\"it's ok to burn a city down and cause senseless wanton destruction and destroy innocent people's livelihoods and terrorize them because you use a scumbag getting shot by cops as an excuse\"\n\"Ahh! How dare someone try to defend innocent people against the mob!\"",
"The point of the article is to report the testimony, not give you every single tangentially related piece of media. The point is to give you as much information about the testimony as possible. This isn't a biopic, it's reporting.",
"Fuckin wild that you can murder two people but it’s the third guy who witnessed it pulling a gun that’s the issue.",
"Seems odd to me that you can argue self defense when you were the first one to have a gun out and the first one to point it at the guy.",
"> What is the headline, stated by NPR\n\nThis **\"Gaige Grosskreutz, shot by Rittenhouse in Kenosha, takes the stand at his trial\"**\n\n> on their Twitter\n\nI don't know can you link it?\n\n> about the position of Gauge’s hands.\n\nCan you at least quote it? Because the headline I see doesn't mention it.\n\n> NPR claims Gauge had his hands up when he was shot.\n\nThey did not. Even the Facebook screenshot you linked doesn't say that. They are quoting his testimony. This is normal, they can't change his testimony.",
"You may be too stupid for your own good",
"\"That women threatened me with her breasts so I had to act to defend my sexuality and assault her.\"\n\nA women dressing sexily and someone carrying a rifle are very different situations and I don't think it's fair to compare them.",
"I think barring anything else, we can all agree he shouldn't have been there in the first place.",
"You're free to see it that way, but the law sees it differently, and that's what matters in terms of his guilt or innocence.",
"TO BE FAIR, usually on cross the prosecution's witness might say that 'they don't remember' or at least be evasive in their responses and I'm sure some form of this was told to the witness before hand",
"He was being chased and attacked *before* he pointed the gun.",
"So I go to a place with a gun knowing there will be conflict, and then when there's conflict I shoot them and claim self defense?",
"I mean, it's a well-known fact that this is a politically driven case. He is literally on trial because of politics. \n\nBy the way, calling someone a leftist doesn't mean that I'm on the right, it just means that I'm not with them either.",
"Feelings over facts",
"First you said a who lot of cars burned down, then you implied that they *didn’t* burn down because someone put them out, so which is it? Make up your mind.\n\nNo fires got put out *with a gun* which is why you have no clue with a fire extinguisher is I suspect. “Suppressing fire” isn’t the same thing as “fire suppression,” genius.\n\nResponding to arson with murder is also just not justified. You aren’t the cops, you aren’t the fire department. “Rule of law” does *not* mean you have free reign to be a Vigilante.",
"If memory serves tried to kick him while he’s been knocked to the ground and the other tries to hit him in the head with a skateboard truck",
"Dude was out there for one reason. One reason only. He wanted to shoot somebody",
"Uh what lol? Show me the law that says any random person can hold another person at gunpoint. Sounds like some hilarious “citizens arrest!!!1!11!!!” bullshit.",
"At least.",
"If only you knew how ridiculous you sound.",
"Look up Richard Jewell and Jussie Smollett and grab the popcorn.",
"Nah, i watched that trial. Check the phone data for GPS. Zimmerman followed Trayvon, Trayvon lost zim/zim stopped following after reporting, Trayvon got to his house, doubled back and began the attack. Corroborated by witness testimony from Trayvon's girlfriend.",
"Dude are you watching the same footage as us? Where the hell are you getting these narratives?",
"Why would he fear for his life? As part of a mob that was not being shot at. If he saw the two people be shot then he would have seen it was only the people confronting Rittenhouse that were shot. He would have to be able to answer that. I did not watch the whole trial so I'm not sure how it was presented. I don't have a good answer at all. \n\nCould it have come down to the shooter and the victim in this or other situation both claiming self defense is an investing thought. Since self defense in some states is fearing for your life. I should look into this.\n\nBut I think if you start to pursue someone that may fall apart. Standing your own ground and defending yourself and others is kinda the limit of self defense and them it quickly moves to vigilante justice is my guess. I'm not sure how far from each event/shooting the next ones were.\n\nIf Grosskreutz would have shot Rittenhouse immediately after the first person was shot by Rittenhouse I think he would have had a possible argument for self defense.",
"Keep repeating, I don't care. I've never voted in my life lol",
"Heightened tensions? Those were riots you dishonest scumbag. And he lived 20 minutes away. Building were being burned. He was already shown to help put out fires. Then got attacked, and the shot in self defense. You’re not concerned with facts otherwise you wouldn’t have commented such a inflammatory comment about “uppity animal black folk”. You’re displaying your bias loud and proud, don’t try to shirk behind it now",
"Except you've made up a situation to make it so you can win in your head. In the video, not one of those people had to engage or die.",
"None of this has anything to do with race. You're delusional.",
"Yes :)",
"I feel like they are only reading news articles for the first time in their life.",
"It's crazy how many people have such strong opinions on the case here but haven't taken 10 minutes to watch the ACTUAL FOOTAGE from that night. They'll read whatever articles that confirm their thoughts, but also omit clear cut video evidence SHOWING what happened is not in line with the words on the screen.This has been and open and shut case since the night it happened. Self defense.",
"Yes, and Gaige testified that as a medic he was concerned that Huber swinging a skateboard at Rittenhouse could cause \"head trauma.\" \n\nDo you think \"head trauma\" could be life threatening? To defend his self (aka self-defense) Rittenhouse shot Huber.",
"What makes you say that?",
"They're not reporting on the events of 8/25/20, they're reporting on the trial. As such, they are conveying witness testimony, not analyzing that testimony, which is the job of the court. Y'all are out of your minds.",
"Thanks! Now any time a news outlet writes \"Witnesses say,\" I'll know they're pushing a narrative.",
"Boy drives to a different city to go antagonize protestors with a gun, ultimately murders three people.\n\nThe American Right:\n\n>Good little boy was just exercising his god given right to own a gun, intimidate his neighbors and kill his fellow citizens.\n\nI feel like your whole country is just bizarro world.",
"I mean does the article look any less biased? https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha\n\nObviously their headlines/synopsis matter as well when you're trying to identify any biases.",
"Yeah not really. If they had shot Rittenhouse directly after he shot his first victim, or the second victim. \n\nThe fact that he's running doesn't imply much when he's shooting people as he runs away, and he's more or less a constant threat given he was armed with a long rifle. \n\nThe law isn't decided based on who's chasing who.",
"Right wing nuts started wanking the second they heard somebody had shot protestors. They are the problem. They encouraged this lunatic to attend this protest with a gun.",
"Also after Grosskreutz had exchanged words with Rittenhouse following the shooting of Rosenbaum (as Rittenhouse ran down the street toward the police barricade) in which Rittenhouse told Grosskreutz, \"I'm going to the police.\"\n\nThe crowd chased after Rittenhouse, he shot two people who were attacking him while he was on the ground after tripping, and then continued toward the police where he attempted to turn himself in.\n\nSo, what's your point?",
"If he walks that will just inspire other retards to do the same thing and the cycle will repeat but with more bloodshed. This is the dumbest timeline.",
"Yep. It's not even hard to see if you want too.",
"Isn't that an infinite loop? Like let's say everyone has a gun and you saw someone with limited context shoot someone, you raise your gun to threaten them fearing for your own life, they fear for their own life and shoot you. \n\nThe issue with Kyle is he came out looking to provoke. If he was some kid seeing these assholes around his neighborhood pointing guns, he wouldnt be an media issue. Because he actively sought-after this kind of situation, it really becomes an issue.",
"Being wrong? Dude killed two people after going to a place to kill people. It’s murder.",
"You won’t get a straight answer. \n\nProceed to be biased as fuck and call him a brace kid who fucking murdered people. \n\nBringing up property damage as if that justified travelling with a gun and killing people. \n\nDon’t act objective",
"He's making that face you make when your testimony basically guarantees that the guy who blew your bicep off will get to walk lol",
"Safer than Iraq. What are we complaining about?",
"Defending criminals. \n\nAnd you wouldn't defend yourself if someone is going to do you great bodily harm?",
"Absolutely.\n\nOf course, it depends on the crime. Can I shoot someone in self-defense while jaywalking? Yup. Can I do it while trying to kill someone else? Nope.\n\nIf the question behind your question is \"is Rittenhouse a murderer, given that he carried a firearm across state lines illegally?\" The answer is no. If it's \"Did Rittenhouse act in lawful self defense?\" The answer is yes.\n\nIf your question is \"Did Rittenhouse carry a weapon across state lines with the intention of putting himself into a situation in which he could legally kill someone he disagreed with?\" The answer is \"only Rittenhouse himself can answer that,\" but everyone (regardless of their position on the issue) knows that the real answer is \"yes.\"",
"So he attacked someone running away that was no longer a threat?",
">You can’t just go chasing people with a gun and trying to shoot them because you think they shot someone else.\n\nOf course you can, if they are presenting as an active threat which Rittenhouse was. That's literally what the whole \"good guy with a gun\" thing is about. Rittenhouse murdered the good guy with a gun. \n\n>That’s the police’s job to handle, not random people.\n\nYes, but it's not illegal to try and detain someone you believe is a threat / just killed someone and might kill again.\n\n>If they’re not shooting and running away, they’re not threatening you\n\nHe was running away from some people, towards others. It was a crowded area. If Rittenhouse had just shot 10 people instead of one, I don't think the crowd's actions would be considered controversial, and legally it makes no difference.",
"They were trying to stop him from shooting by advancing on him in large enraged mass of angry looking people?",
"NPR is always a focal point of this stuff.\n\nIt has managed to mostly maintain it's reputation as a quality, non-corporate news organization throughout the last 10 years of lugenpresse hysteria. So long as they keep doing quality work they're going to have a target on their back.",
"He put out a firey dumpster that was being pushed into a gas station. Maybe, just maybe, things didn't escalate to levels that you consider riotous because there were armed people guarding property?",
"That's weird, all of the evidence and testimony isn't in but you are calling me names over it?",
"Because one person is doing something called open carry and the other is doing something called concealed carry. They also differ in their arms, one has a pistol, the other a rifle.",
"He was a minor, so no, he doesn't have that right, not in Wisconsin at least. Him being there with a gun to begin with was illegal. I can't say how that'll affect the rest of the trial though, according to Wisconsin law it's classified as a misdemeanor.",
"Sure, but he's not on trial for being dumb. He's on trial for first degree murder, a charge which was obviously never going to stick given the overwhelming video and photo evidence showing each shot fired was in self defense. In fact, it's impressive how much *restraint* Rittenhouse displayed when knocked to the ground and rushed by a mob. Each witness so far has only further corroborated the evidence and the prosecution clearly has no faith in this case anymore (if they ever did).",
"> In a fucked up situation like this wouldn't it be normal to try and stop the shooter?\n\nEven if it was, those guys aren’t on trial here, it’s the guy being chased by those guys and whether or not he had the legal right to defend himself against the people who probably wished to do him harm.",
"Not attacked, no",
"Don’t know what’s going on here really but Grosskreutz is hot.",
"If they could prove Kyle's intent, the trial would go much differently. You don't know his intent, don't pretend to.",
"He did plenty of illegal things, why was he there? Why did he bring a gun? What he did was vigilante bullshit, he killed people with an illegal fire arm. He was there with the intentions of hurting people. But I guess it goes to show who can get away with murdering people. \"he's an idiot, an asshole\" no, he's a murderer. I know he's gonna walk because the law is designed to help people that look like him, and have resources like him. Trash ass judicial system. Outrageous, this one fucking guy can easily inspire other supremacist into thinking they also can go out there as vigilantes and kill people. Funny how the dead didn't have a gun but the guy who is alive had a gun and somehow the guy with the rifle is the victim.",
"Didn’t say it did. I said you’re racist because you post in racist subs.",
"The facts say he shot first and killed innocent people. Your feelings don’t fit into this.",
"Lol, thanks for that. It’s all I needed to hear\n\nEdit: lol, he deleted his post. But for anyone else running across the comment chain, he did in fact say that in the above described situation, her rape would be 100% her fault.",
"Yes I heard your batshit insane dissertation the first time, repeating it doesn't make it any less batshit insane.",
"You mean the guy that lunged for Kyles gun? Yeah if what you’re saying is true then Kyle will go to jail for murder right? Right? You’re too attached to your narrative",
"Or you could at least point out where they lied.",
"A yes. His community. Across state lines. \n\nAlso what do pay crimes matter? Way to put yourself",
"According to the evidence, he didn't cross state lines with a firearm. The rifle never left the state of Wisconsin.\n\nAnd there is no legal precedent or support for attempting to murder a retreating individual for \"instigating shit.\"",
"If he was acting as a vigilante then he was an instigator and cannot claim self defense. It's a basic fact that no one would have been shot if he had not been there, and the only reason he was there - *by your own admission* - is that he was trying to be a vigilante. QED.",
"Not really. If the guy with the pistol had shot Kyle his self defense claim would be weak. He was chasing Kyle, which invalidates a self defense claim pretty much anywhere.",
"No, your comment is just cringy and ridiculous.",
"Repeating the same strawmans isn’t convincing anyone except those brigading with your point of view. Thanks for posting the same thing to exhibit that only one point of view matters in your mind - the one you agree with. Very obvious you can’t exercise any reason on subjects that are part of your identity.",
"They probably are, in all honesty…",
"...did you misread what he said? It is not self defense to break into someone's house and shoot the owner of said house if they point a gun at you.",
"No he really was a pedo (Rosenbaum) and a wife beater (gaige grosskreutz)",
"A citizen's arrest conducted without the aim to turn the suspect over to the police at the earliest opportunity? That sounds like the actions of a dangerous vigilante. I'm not claiming that was Grosskreutz's reasoning, merely how he appears in your version of events.",
"lol where is the homeless man suppose to go other than the streets. regardless of riot or not",
"Hahahahah what? Self defence is racist because people use it against black people? lmao",
"Lmao my guy what are you even on about?",
"Uh... Using your logic that means the individuals who attacked Kyle were also trying to murder him. You have another term?",
">Can’t call someone a woman beater when they haven’t been arrested or charged with beating women.\n\nSure you can. People do it to John Lennon all the time.",
"LMAO just fill out with the racism? Fuck you",
"After Kyle points his gun at an unarmed person nearby.\n\nThey only attacked him in an attempt to get him to stop pointing/shooting",
"Sorry I ignored the first part, but it was irrelevant. No one claimed that guns will stop the riot, so if we're talking about this particular event, that's as relevant as pointing out that guns don't fight fires, or don't heal people. \n\nYour second question was vague, and I answered both versions, since this wasn't gunless rioting. We know at least 3 people had guns, and guns were fired before Rittenhouse.\n\nBut since you're being an asshole with insults, I don't need to respect your intelligence. You said 100% of the problem in the post I responded to, then switched to deaths. Assholes like you might consider burning down others' property to not be a problem, but I and others do. Luckily, the kid in this instance had a gun to defend himself from a mob that tried to attack him. \n\nAnd guns aren't prescient. Lol at the riot in scare quotes.",
"They want their narrative to be pushed. Truth doesn’t matter",
"Correct, he had shot two other people in self-defense prior to the third encounter.",
"Cons often find following science disagreeable. So I don't blame you.",
"Mmmmm delicious reddit cuck tears",
"It wasn't murder, it was also self defence.",
"Had to make sure I was on reddit there for a second.",
"\"So and so testified X, here's evidence that's not true or calls it into question etc...\" seems like a major part of being a news organization. \n\nAnd they didn't accurately report that he admitted he didn't get shot until he aimed and advanced, so they failed even your too low(imo) standard.",
"In self defence, yes. Facts are important.",
"What's CNN?",
"In what way?",
"Did you watch the video? He was being CHASED before tripping, and just because you point a gun at someone doesn't mean others can suddenly attack you. He was *already* being threatened, that makes pointing a gun in self defence *justified*, and that's why **the prosecution is in shambles**",
"You should tell that to the next person you see putting out a fire.",
"It's strange you turn to this thread for evidence in a murder trial. I doubt the prosecutors are doing the same thing.",
"But what about the \"good guy with a gun\" argument?\n\nWhen everything is chaos and no one knows what's going on, how is anyone supposed to know who's shooting who and why? If rittenhouse was indiscriminately shooting people, wouldn't this guy be the \"good guy with a gun\" who is trying to stop him?\n\nIf, in a hypothetical situation where we *do* have some criminal indiscriminately shooting people, if someone knocks them on the ground and pulls a gun on them, are they then justified in killing that person because they reasonably believed they were going to die?\n\nIt's not as black and white as you make it out to be.",
"> He's still a fuckhead and will get nailed on firearms charges, but that's it.\n\nI whole heartedly agree here. Dude is a teenager who thought he would play at being a \"hero\" and \"protect\" a neighborhood with other gun toting adults. He is completely guilty of being dumb enough to put himself in the situation, as well as doing so while breaking the law to be armed.\n\nBut the first guy shot was chasing him down w/ a mob behind him and trying to take the teens gun. Both of which should qualify for use of deadly force in self defense. Then its a shit show, w/ a scared teenager and a mob of protesters, some of whom thought they were trying to stop the bad guy when they approached the teenager.\n\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes applies to everyone on both sides of this situation.",
"Unfortunately it doesn't matter what those men thought. Their incorrect assumptions do not trump Kyle's right to self defense. So idk why you are bringing this up its really irrelevant",
"The problem is authoritarianism in general, left or right doesnt matter, government overreach and whipping constituents up in a frenzy to justify power traps is the issue. \n\nAt least the right wing has a methodology in place for allowing society to exist without strong government oversight via the free market.",
"Youre so close r/selfawarewolves",
"i mean there's nothing inherently wrong with politically leaning whatever way you want, but if you're in charge of arguably the biggest bastion of (ideally) unbiassed information on the internet you'd hope that we could at least keep the information emotionally (and therefor politically) neutral",
"Yeah I'm not understanding how this is good for Kyles defense.\n\nIsn't that other guy the \"good guy with a gun\" I keep hearing about? Is he not \"standing his ground\" by pointing a gun at a guy that just shot two people?\n\nIf anything this is just more proof that\n\nA) we need better gun control, none of those guns needed to be there\n\nB) police are fucked, 90% need to lose their jobs and be replaced, because they should've prevented this\n\nC) stand your ground laws need to be reassessed\n\nD) Kyle still shot two people before \"defending himself\" against this guy with a gun. So how is he in the right? Did the other guy need to shoot first and ask later? Or shout \"citizens arrest!\"?\n\nE) see A",
"If you come stand outside my house openly carry a weapon and I walk outside then draw my weapon, you think you are legally entitled to shoot me? \n\nRittenhouse had trained his barrel on several people through the course of the night, and if he pointed it at this guy then I see a perfectly valid reason for the guy testifying to have pulled his weapon. \n\nHe ought to have shot and killed Rittenhouse, then he'd be on the stand and just as likely to walk free.",
"You don't lose your right to self defense by using legally justified force.",
"When he was attacked, he was pointing his gun at an unarmed person",
"Try and apply this rule you'd like to see used to any other situations and extrapolate the endings; Kyle didn't die that night because he protected himself, it's a good thing he was armed and used his right to self defense, otherwise the angry mob probably would have killed him.",
">I know that a website where people can’t differentiate between a gun and their own dick won’t agree with me.\n\nStarting out with a straw man and an insult. Keep it classy. Not to mention that there were all ALREADY guns at the riot. Rittenhouse could have just as easily been the murdered one if just a few seconds played differently. Did he make stupid decisions? Yup. But so did all the other people out there who were burning their own city to the ground and attacking people with deadly weapons. Shitty situation all around, but the soul blame should not go to a dumbass 17 yo kid.",
"The article quotes what he said, but does not make any claims about what actually happened. That's about as unbiased as you can get.",
"I have to rewatch that footage, however just because you are unarmed doesn’t mean you’re not a threat.",
"He shot at the initial person he killed because a separate firearm was discharged and he supposedly thought the person he killed had that gun.\n\nThis whole fucking situation started (if you ignore the fact that he brought the gun premeditated to get into conflict in the first place) because he attacked someone who he thought had a gun *because* he thought he had a gun.\n\nIf he had taken this advice and simply left instead of shooting someone none of it would have happened.",
"Protest? Nice newspeak there bud. And he lived 20 minutes away. Grosskeurtz lived even further away than that. But him and child rapist rosenbaum weren’t escalating anything by threatening murder and trying to kill him. You fucks are delusional.",
"So leave.",
"potato potato",
"Every person who was involved in this situation was an absolute idiot, but nobody deserved to die. People call for blood, but at the end of the day this dumbass kid will walk on murder charges.",
"No that's not how the law works lmao. Watch the trial, it's live now. They're discussing who called Kyle to protect their property and it's helping the defence. You are completely wrong. Watch the trial",
"You are completely dodging the point. I said assuming your kid were already in that situation, what should they have done different?",
"Well given the curfew, nobody should have been. But yes, him especially, and certainly not armed with someone else's rifle.",
"I’m not worshipping him at all. I went into the trial with an open mind. Unlike you who wants him so badly to be unjustified. Should he have stayed home that night? Probably. Were his actions justified after he got there? Yes.",
"Well you smoked him so that’s the reply you get.",
"He’s not on trial man, only Rittenhouse is. So his perspective is the only one that matters. That’s how it works. We’re not deciding who should be found guilty between Rittenhouse and the other guy — only whether Rittenhouse is guilty. The other guy probably would also be found “not guilty” if he were charged with something (brandishing, etc)",
"I dont even know who that is... lol.",
"It's nuts that two people can watch the same exact video and reach two different conclusions. Grosskreutz ran after Kyle, put his hands up when Kyle aimed at him, Kyle lowered his weapon, and then Grosskreutz pointed the gun at Kyle at which point Kyle shot his arm.\n\nUsers like yourself stand at the keyboard saying that's not what happened even after GROSSKREUTZ HIMSELF SAID THAT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.",
"Lol.",
"Yeah. Nothing to do with the fucking psychotic loser crossing state lines to kill. \n\nIt’s not wrong to pull a gun after you see someone murder two people",
"> concealed carry\n\nI thought the gun was in his hand. He was not concealing anything in the situation you described.",
"I haven't read either the post or the article, but just my two cents here as someone that works in SEO:\n\nNPR can absolutely control what their social media snippet contains when the article is posted to Facebook or other platforms, so the blame for the \"synopsis\" still falls on them if it is misleading.",
"Assuming I'm saying it over politics says a lot about your character and warped political views. Rittenhouse shot 3 people and killed a convicted pedophile rapist, a convicted repeat domestic abuser, and wounded another convicted criminal with weapons charges. The two who died were objectively rotten dregs of society whose loss will only benefit the world.",
"I thought he said that he was there to protect the business from looters? Did his statement change?",
"You forgot convicted child rapist in his description.",
"He ran *to* the fight across state lines to start with actually. Doesn't affect the case, but does make him an asshole.",
"The judge, when asked to dismiss the misdemeanor charge:\n\n>I’m going to deny the motion for now, but that’s no guarantee I won’t re-examine this. I just don’t, I don’t feel comfortable. It’s a penal statute, and to hold people accountable for laws that, well, the basic rule, and there’s plenty of interpretation on it, but the basic concept of the rule is that it has to be clear to ordinary people. And if you’ve got, you know, judges spending hours here, and hours more at an appellate level, trying to figure out exactly what the statute says, I mean, how does that serve the people? So I’m going to deny the \\[defense\\] motion \\[to dismiss the misdemeanor gun charge under § 948.60\\] subject to reconsideration without motion \\[without requiring the defense to object again to the charge\\]. I want to give more study this. And believe me it’s not because I haven’t looked at it extensively at this point.\n\nIn other words, the judge isn't quite as convinced as you are about it not being murky.",
"That's a pretty major mischaracterization - Bicep Boy pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. If that was me, I'd shoot too, Rittenhouse was in *mortal danger.*",
"In this case? Try in every aspect of modern life",
"Well fuck it call me a victim blamer. Kid was in the right to defend himself but still dumb as fucking bricks for going in the first place.",
"It's a chaotic situation, but it does help with their self-defense argument more.",
"What matters is the unarmed man he chased after and shot.",
"You can do whatever you want. Doesn’t mean you’re right",
"Considering, per FBI statistics, areas with the most strict gun laws have the most gun violence and those with the least gun laws have the least gun crimes.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nFunny how that works.",
"That's just like, your opinion man.\n\nAt least you have returned to the topic instead of impugning me of pedophilia.",
"> Were his actions self-defense according to state law? Based on the evidence, it certainly looks that way.\n\nKeep in mind this moment would only exonerate him for one of the three shootings he is accused of. He'll have to prove self defense for the other two as well.\n\nMaybe you're referring to other evidence about the other two shootings that has come to light, I'm not informed enough to know. What I do know is that people are taking this reaction video to mean that because Rittenhouse might have shot one of the guys in self defense, that means he shot all of them in self defense. And that doesn't follow.",
"We're on restating the evidence here, yet you can't seem to comprehend it. We're getting evidence from the trial which is being live streamed right now. Watch it.",
"Okay but you know the law has to be applied generally right? And precedent matters? So if Kyle is innocent because he was scared for his life and that makes it okay. It would also make it okay in the shooter situation.",
"I’m curious is there ever a scenario in which two people could both theoretically be acting in self defense and be legally justified in killing each other. Like if I punch someone for being an ass, they pull a gun on me then I pull my weapon and kill them. Is that legally justified defense?",
"Uhhhhhhh Kyle went there to shoot people and that's what he did",
"He was attacked by all three individuals while attempting to remove himself from the situation and retreat behind police lines. That is the exact opposite of escalation. \n\nThere is no legal way to attempt to murder a retreating man in the state of Wisconsin. Or any state for that matter.",
"Ignorance is not an excuse for committing immoral acts, sorry. If you think I'm arguing the law then you need to look at my other comments...",
"Yeah I think Rittenhouse was at best being an idiot larper who wanted to be a hero and protect someone else’s private property and got himself into a dangerous situation that required self defence. At worst he was seeking a legal kill which a lot of these people fantasise about. Going to a place like that with a gun was definitely to incite a reaction, did he get the reaction he wanted? We won’t know, it’s really hard to prove intent unless he told someone beforehand or had it written down. So from the law’s perspective he killed in self-defence. Here’s hoping he gets convicted for some of the gun charges so future idiots aren’t incentivised to copy him.",
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iryQSpxSlrg\n\nFirst five seconds of the video someone comes and hits him in the back of the head and you can hear people scream \"GET THAT DUDE!\" so he was under threat, which is why self-defense is justified you dingus.\n\nAt 0:13 he turns around and sees someone advancing on him, that person stops advancing and retreats once he turns the gun, but that person doesn't get shot. THEN other people continue advancing upon him and they get shot.",
"Just imagine, 2 violent people with prior records of violence would still be alive if they didn't attack someone with an AR-15.",
"Prove that Grosskreutz knew rittenhouse killed people in self defense first.",
"Hey mods, how is a murder trial political?",
"The police have no obligation to stop a crime in progress, even if you're [being stabbed repeatedly right in front of them](https://youtu.be/jAfUI_hETy0).\n\n[Don't talk to cops](https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE), explained by a lawyer.",
"Did you misread what he said? He's the legal president.",
"Yeah he should walk. Fuckin Americans and their guns. \n\nThis is why people look down on your country. \n\nHe purposefully brought a gun to a riot because he wanted to kill people and your dumbass laws let him get away with it\n\n“I’m left leaning but I agree with provoking and murdering protestors”",
"Kyle put out a fire that leftists were rolling into a gas station. They attacked him over that because they compared his morality and discipline with their enviousness and bitterness and got enraged about how much better of a human he was than them.\n\nYour ideology is shitty.",
"> Isn't that an infinite loop? Like let's say everyone has a gun and you saw someone with limited context shoot someone, you raise your gun to threaten them fearing for your own life, they fear for their own life and shoot you.\n\nWhere's the loop? It ends there. The person who shot the other did so in self-defence. The person who got shot can't claim self-defence as their life was not in immediate danger. You can't threaten someone with a gun like that.",
"Are you okay? The pedo who tried to kill Kyle yelled the N word thrice",
"False equivalency in record time.\n\nLets play though. You failed to provide context which shows your conscious effort to be disingenuous. \n\nSo, if this so called terrorist was minding their own business and happened to have a gun and someone tried to take that gun from them and they shot the perpetrator, then yes that is in fact self defense. \n\nNow, from your response, I'm guessing this is the context you were thinking. The terrorist is actively terrorizing a bus full of children with a gun. Someone tries to take that gun away from him and he shoots them. This is not self defense because they are an active aggressor and not defending anything.\n\nThat's why it is a false equivalence and you should be ashamed of trying to argue that.",
"i think my point pretty clear. Im ashamed of him because he put himself in that situation. I dont care what transpired afterwards. and thankfully my kid isnt a shit dick looking to get into dumb situations. so I dont have to worry about it.",
"https://youtube.com/watch?v=VpTW2AJE9MQ&t=19m45s\n\nThe guy had his arms up and was backing away.\n\nThen Kyle was only attacked in an attempt to get the gun pointed off of that guy\n\n(This all happens after Kyle trips and falls)",
"Then they should link it. Because they linked to the one from yesterday.",
"So no trials and we just go back to shooting each other?? What the fuck",
"Yeah it pretty much is, the prosecution has to disclose the evidence they're going to present. In this case, it's essentially all witness testimony. The prosecution's own witnesses have dismantled their case and the defense hasn't even started yet. He will NOT be found guilty murder",
"After he chased after him.",
"There’s always this cut-and-dry assumption at the beginning of any case like this, and it never turns out as simple as the Internet mob makes it out to be.\n\nHeck, even the Bundy case ended up being complicated because it turned out the FBI was absolutely infringing on the Bundy family’s rights — to such a gross degree that the judge threw out the case with prejudice.",
"I didn't say that Rittenhouse did, but the user I responded to said that Gaige drew a legal firearm, which Gaige did not, by his own testimony.",
"Prove it. Show us a SINGLE piece of evidence that supports this or you are just full of shit.",
"Yea, only a tiny % were violent. That's true. You're acting like violence from outside instigators devalues the whole protest. You're more worried about buildings than people. Luckily those buildings have insurance. The owners will get paid for their loss. Unlike the families of police victims shootings. Im sorry a burnt building hurt your feelings. But murder is much much worse, I assure you",
"If he had valued his bicep ... he should have stayed away.",
"To me, as a European, the U.S. is a lot like Russia. Only stronger and arguably more successful. \n\nSo kind of like China I guess? Except China has their shit together so you probably won't be peers for long.\n\nHappy reddit birthday!",
"Face palm because he was unable to convict an innocent man",
"re-read his comment",
"Yeah people have been saying Rittenhouse will never be able to get a job because of this but something tells me he won’t need one",
"> all the other psychopaths\n\nYou're still thinking about this the wrong way. He's a minor, and children are easily manipulated. He didn't have political enemies, because he couldn't even vote at the time, he was brainwashed by Republican leadership, police, and likely his own family into thinking what he was doing was the right thing.\n\nYou can't just look at it from a single perspective, that's why court cases like this can take months or even years to sort out; there were a lot of different circumstances that all need to be taken into account. If he was just a run-of-the-mill, middle-aged, alt-right asshole who thought he was above the law and shot some people, then yeah, it'd be a little more cut-and-dry, but it's more complicated than that.",
"Plenty of people live in one state and work in another. State borders aren't like country borders, they're easy to cross and many people commute 20 minutes or more to work/college/whatever in the US.",
"This was the THIRD PERSON Kyle shot.",
"The burning the car lot was just one of the many acts of destruction and violence that happened the night before. I WATCHED IT HAPPEN LIVE -- the rioters live streamed themselves doing it.\n\nNight two. Kyle et al comes out with guns to stop the violent mob from committing violence.\n\nThey commit violence and start fires anyway\n\nKyle puts a fire out\n\nThe man who started the fire (convicted pedophile, let out of the psych ward that day) then confronts Kyle and threatens to kill him, before chasing him and then attacking h\n\nKyle then kills the man reaching for his gun in self defense\n\nWhat part of this don't you understand",
"In that case I'd be whoever shot the shooter on trial and it would be the exact same situation we're in now except if the 'shooter' was running away towards cops for help it's harder to prove self defense. It'd also be a much more interesting court case. The current one is pretty cut an dry.",
"He was already in town that day for his shift as a lifeguard, then he was asked to help clean up graffiti at a local school. Seriously, this has all been verified already, why keep peddling the other narrative? He lives 15 minutes from Kenosha, the 3rd guy he shot was from Milwaukee, further away than Kyle.",
">You can't just assume someone is an active shooter because some idiot said so. If I walked near you and screamed \"HE HAS A SUICIDE BOMB VEST!!\" anyone who shot you would still be in the wrong, unless you actually did have a suicide bomb vest.\n\nThe fact that we live in a country where you're supposed to watch a person run down the street with a loaded rifle and just think \"Ah, another law-abiding citizen going about their peaceful business\" is kinda fucked up.\n\nLike, the Vegas shooter was just a dude bringing a shitload of weapons and ammo into his hotel room...until he fired out the window. The Columbine shooters were just a couple of kids driving around with weapons in their trunk until they walked them into their school and fired. Many active shooters were handling guns legally until they chose not to, and its not like the people around them got any warning.\n\nMeanwhile John Crawford III got shot dead by police for walking around a Walmart with a BB gun that he had *picked up off the shelf of the Walmart he is in*. Because another shopper called and **falsely** reported that it was a real gun and that he was brandishing it. But Kyle Rittenhouse walking around with a very real rifle in very real ready position, that's just normal and the people trying to disarm him overreacted.\n\nI agree that it fully seems that Kyle Rittenhouse didn't do anything illegal. But jeely cly do we need to take a long hard look at how we handle matters of policing and open carry because if I saw Kyle Rittenhouse walking around with a fucking rifle slung across his chest at night, my first thought would be \"Well, apparently I'm going to die today\". \n\n\nEDIT: Shit, in the same state a few years ago, Jeronimo Yanez was acquitted for killing a man who informed him that there was a 100% legal firearm in his vehicle because he thought it was possible that maybe the man was reaching for it! But Kyle Rittenhouse walking around with a gun physically in his hands? That's perfectly safe and reasonable and no one should have taken physical action against him.\n\nSERIOUSLY. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Is walking around in public with a rifle or hands on a gun an imminent threat to public safety, or is it normal everyday peaceful behavior? Because, legally, it seems to be both when it wants to be.",
">\tSo you can go into a protest with a rifle…\n\nYou mean like dozens of protestors did (i.e.brought guns, rifle/handgun doesn’t really matter at this point)?\n\nLike some of the other people involved *in this case* did?\n\n>\t…and intent to use it…\n\nYou have absolutely zero evidence to support this. This is supposition. The presence of a gun is not evidence for intent to use it. See every legal president in existence. This is why brandishing and carrying are two very distinct things.",
"The mountains of video evidence and facts of the case disagree with you, but don't let that stop you from spewing bullshit.",
"Both in self defense. Under a law that the prosecutors have admitted is vague enough to have multiple interpretations, which typically means it is struck down as unconstitutional for vagueness. \n\nSo yes, if you see someone defending himself, assume he's the aggressor and act that way, you're legally in the wrong.\n\nEDIT: To be clear, the idea that he wasn't permitted to carry all likely be struck down.",
"Well shit, you got me there lol",
"I love the way he's \"Kyle\" to everyone now, including here, like he's a mate and not a fucking nutter running around with a rifle.",
"They didn't. If you actually *read the article,* it shares that he states he then ran at Rittenhouse when he was distracted, after he had had his hands raised, and with the gun still in his hand, in his own words.",
"this whole thing would have been way less complicated if he'd just drawn and fired without warning. given the circumstance, he'd have been seen as a hero if it had happened that way on a normal sunny day. like if he was just standing in line at a take-out place in a shopping center and rittenhouse showed up with a rifle and started hassling people outside, then started shooting people after they hit him... if Grosskreutz just ducked behind a counter, drew a gun, and then popped out and shot him, nobody would have given a shit. every conservative media outlet would be praising his action. \n\nsure, he was hit with a skateboard or whatever... but he's the one who showed up brandishing a rifle in public. i mean, EVERYBODY involved in this clusterfuck is a moron, but at the end of the day, he showed up almost assuredly looking to shoot somebody. by the letter of the law, this is all basically going to be legal and nothing is going to happen most likely. \n\nnot sure how to feel about that... but it's definitely a face-palm moment for america and our position on guns.",
"I think he was very lucky that no bystanders were shot. I'm not saying the situation he was in was \"easy\". But people react differently to stress. Some people lose their shit, others keep their cool. Rittenhouse was able to calmly shoot 3 people and walked way like it didn't even stress him out. \n\n\nYou're allowed to believe whatever you want about me, even if you're wrong.",
"Yes to deter him. Unfortunately Rosenbaum was looking to die that day.",
"Don’t leave out that the guy has a gun on you because you just fucking killed two people infront of them",
"98% yea, except for outside instigators like Rittenhouse. If you really believe one bad apple ruined the bunch, you'd be screaming for the removal of police",
"Sounds like it’s only self defense for the surviving party. Pretty terrible precedent to set.",
"The media is not a fourth branch of goverment, what are you smoking.",
"Unluckily, he made the choice to go into that situation. How can you put yourself in that situation willfully and claim that you had to kill someone to prevent yourself from being significantly harmed? The way to prevent that is to not go into that situation in the first place. The circumstances of why and how Rittenhouse was there matter.",
"Yep, confirmed. Garbage human.",
"You really lack reading comprehension don’t you?\n\n> If you are in the commission of a crime under Wisconsin state law you lose the right to self defense with lethal force unless met with equal force.\n\nSo if Rittenhouse was illegally carrying that gun (hint, illegally means he’s committing a crime), he does not have the right to self defense with lethal force until met with equal force. \n\nDisarming does not count as being met with lethal force and is in fact a situation in which the disarmer would lose the right to self defense if they used lethal force against the disarmed.",
"they're all dumb for being there.\n\nI'd argue his reason were less reprehensible than the other side tbh.",
"The state line issue is a red herring...it doesn't matter. Rittenhouse worked at the YMCA in Kenosha and lived 15 minutes away. Kenosha is the only real city close to Antioch. Many of the people protesting that night, including Huber and Grosskreutz, lived farther away from Kenosha than Rittenhouse did.\n\nHe should have been there is also irrelevant. None of them should have been there. All of them were violating curfew. Dozens of people on both sides were openly carrying both long guns and hand guns. Many more, like Grosskreutz, were carrying concealed weapons. \n\nIt doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter if Rittenhouse was a provocateur or engaged in unlawful conduct. \n\nAll that matters is did Rittenhouse fear he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm at that moment and had he exhausted reasonable means of escape (WI State Statute 939.48(2)(a). THAT is what matters. \n\nhttps://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/939.48(2)(a)",
"I literally don't care what Grosskreutz said, the video represents a more accurate depiction of what happened... He wasn't aiming his gun at him either, you can tell he's positioning himself to jump or grab Kyle's rifle. It was a mistake for sure to have the pistol out, but read his body language.\n\nKyle lowers his gun as he's LOADING A BULLET IN TO THE CHAMBER, which he fires immediately after. Look at his hand in the video.",
"How about it's a genuine mistake by someone who mixed up two names. Why is it a \"lefties\" problem and not and individual's mistake?",
"Chasing after an active shooter isnt self defense you moron.\n\nIf you have to chase after him that means you could have ran away instead.",
"If he hadn't, he intial confrontation would likely never have happened...so doubtful",
"LMAO travelling across state lines with a gun and threatening people and then posing with a a group recognized as a terrorist group in othe countries.",
"Do active shooters have self defense claims?",
"There is absolutely such thing as a perjury charge for lying on a sworn statement. That’s what the sworn part means",
"I don't wish to engage in your bad faith argument, I just thought your point about ignoring reality as long as a judge hasn't ruled on it to be kinda silly.",
"Why wouldn't anyone want the law to be applied uniform and justly?\n\nOf course the other people involved need to be tried for their crimes.\n\nThat a fucking hot right wing whataboutism take to say \"well what about the other guy\"\n\nWhat about him?",
"So some day in the future, you're pissed off at your local government, you go out with everyone else to yell about it, and bring your gun for self defense. I drive to your town, and bring my gun because I'm afraid some mob might harm property in the area, and I need to defend it and myself. You see me shoot someone else with my gun, point your gun at me, and then I shoot you. You'd feel I was justified in shooting you?",
"OK. That has nothing to do with what we’re talking about here though.",
"RH was already on the defensive after being attacked. He was well within his rights to defend himself. If you are being attacked and someone runs up and points a gun at you, you have the right to defend yourself from that guy too\n\nApparently RH having the weapon wasn't illegal either on his part. The person who gave him the gun could be charged with giving a weapon to a minor though.",
"Haha damn the bought and paid for media got another one. Look at the video where he is cleaning graffiti off walls. He is running with a fire extinguisher to put out a dumpster on fire that was pushed into a gas station.",
"That doesn't matter here because based on what actually took place, he was the one trying to leave the situation and the mob was chasing him. Why they decided to keep chasing a guy with a rifle and already shot someone, I don't know. But that's what they did, and a couple of them died and a few more almost died. \n\nEven if he had the worst intentions possible, they basically gave the dude several legal murders. There's no way you could find him guilty of any serious crime here.",
"No, they didn't.\n\n> \"In that moment, I felt that I had to do something to try to prevent myself from being killed or being shot,\" Grosskreutz testified. \"I decided the best course of action would be to close the distance between the defendant and I, and from there, I don't know ... wrestling the gun, detaining the defendant, I don't know ... I do know that I was never trying to kill the defendant.\"",
"Kind of seems like critical information for context of the situation. I have a feeling there's going to be a mistrial here due to the seeming bias of the judge. I'm not saying Kyle is guilty (I personally think he is) but there's some inconsistencies with the judges rules regarding this case it seems",
"Cops in America don't have a [duty to protect the public](https://youtu.be/jAfUI_hETy0) or intervene in crimes in progress. \n\nThey're also taught a course called *Killology*, wherein they are told that killing \"perps\" will make their pps hard and better at sex.",
"It's Mr Kyle to you",
"> If your neighborhood is being destroyed\n\nit wasn't his neighborhood. It was in a different state.",
"Oh come on, it was only the third night of peacefully vandalizing stores, looting setting fires and intimidating the city by people who came out armed and ready to shoot someone. /S\n\nTo Reddit, Capitol building mob = treason and they should get death sentences. Hundreds of riots and acts or arson all over the country = changing people's hearts and minds.",
"Yes. The person NPR is explicitly quoting was lying, not NPR itself. That is the point.",
"He’s still 1000% going to jail \n\nI can’t wait",
"Nice use of a slur. So you're saying it's alright to point guns and possibly shoot at children if they have a gun?",
"Interesting that you'd go to the trouble of looking up the statute and then not reading the exceptions.\n\n>This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.\n\nYou ignored this part I see. In 29.304 we can find the following:\n\n>Exception.\n(a) Notwithstanding subs. (1) to (3), **a person 12 years of age or older may possess or control a firearm** and may hunt with a firearm, bow and arrow, or crossbow on land under the ownership of the person or the person's family if no license is required and if the firing of firearms is permitted on that land.\n\nYou could argue about how the and's and or's apply in that statement. But you would be missing the pretty obvious point that a regular person reading that could clearly and reasonably interpret it to allow people between 12 and 18 to posess rifles as described previously in the section. If the law is unclear then people shouldn't get convicted on the more strict ruling of it that has to be debated in court. The reason should be obvious - there is reasonable doubt that they committed a crime if you have to quibble over whether the minutiae of the wording makes it a crime or legal.\n\n>The only exception to this \n\nHahaha to not read the exceptions and then say this is top tier trolling.",
"Anyone can watch the video and see how much you’re embellishing it for Kyle’s sake. \n\nGrosskreutz didn’t chase him, he was there as a medic and ran toward the commotion. \n\nGrosskreutz is a member of a BLM offshoot group - it isn’t a communist group, it’s a social justice group. They don’t want to overthrow the government, they want systemic change via government action. You may as well call anyone who votes someone “trying to overthrow the government.”",
"The part I’m not understanding is why I can’t find a MSM article where the detective on the case states that before the first victim was shot in the parking lot, Kyle had set down a fire extinguisher, pointed his AR at a couple, when the first victim, Rosenbaum, began chasing him. The pursuit is what let to him being shot.\n\nApparently, the original drone footage where this can be seen was handed over to the detectives Friday. \n\nStill, reporting that Grosskreutz pointed his gun at Kyle before Kyle shot him and omitting this other point seems manipulative.\n\n\nThe original copy is now being discussed. [Link.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox6now.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecutors-expected-to-rest-case-soon.amp)\n\nThey still seem to be omitting Rosenbaum was acting belligerently and trying to take Kyle’s gun because he was pointing it at people. \n\nI grew up around guns. Based on simple gun safety, I’d be pissed if someone (even if I knew them) pointed the barrel of a gun (even if it’s “unloaded”) at me.",
"Honestly it sounds life altering at the least.",
"L",
"It shows a history of violence and making awful decisions like assaulting girls. \n\nBut yeah he was a perfect little angel who crossed state lines with a fucking gun and ended up murdering people",
"He *will* walk, though. It’s past the point of being an “if” — it seems pretty clear that the prosecution has no case.\n\nYeah, it’ll inspire more dumb people, some of whom probably *will* end up doing something that’s *actually* illegal… but that doesn’t mean we should lock up someone who didn’t break the law.",
"Okay so if a shooter lays down their weapons in an active shooter situation and people around him try and grab him to make sure he doesn't change his mind but he feels like he is scared that would make it okay? He would be absolved for those self defense murders but not the ones he did while commiting the mass shooting?",
"Kyle shot two people already.\n\nThat makes him the \"good guy with a gun trying to stop an active shooter\" that I keep hearing is why we must all have guns.",
"Hiring an unlicensed 17 year old to defend your property with a rifle is illegal, so that's just void. And nothing I've said is wrong, but I can tell you're an apologist for right-wing vigilantes so naturally you won't admit it.",
"LMAO he didn’t mean to kill. Which is why he brought an illegal rifle",
"The words \"He acknowledged\" shows that it's his statement.",
"Imagine that. A piece of video that would basically win the prosecutions case but somehow he doesn’t have it? Hahahahah",
"Oh, he was an idiot for going there. But yea, he was still a victim of assault that defended himself.\n\nThe guy that was 'looking' for trouble, was with minders (Adults) all night long until he got cut off from them by the first attacker.",
"\"Active shooter\" is not a legal term. Self-defense generally is defined in most state codes as \"a reasonable person would feel threatened with great bodily harm\" or something like that. As with all laws, the exact details of it are not always spelled out. I'm no lawyer so I don't know what kinds of mitigating circumstances play into it. I assume instigation would be a mitigating circumstance.\n\nFrankly, bringing a gun to an unsanctioned protest is a clear act of provocation but then Kyle is not close to the only person guilty of that at this specific protest. I only hope that the jury has access to good evidence and makes a decision based on the evidence, not on whether Kyle voted for Trump or whether BLM protesters were actually rioters or whether the person he shot was a pedophile or anything else that seems to influence everyone else to cry guilty or innocent before thinking about it.",
"The guy testifying pulled a gun and pointed it at KR immediately prior to KR pointing his rifle at him and shooting him,",
"Well I'm seeing that information in the article.. so I don't know why you're saying they omitted anything.",
"Actually, he was there to defend property & provide medical aid. He was provided a gun for protection. He was captured on video offering to aid to protestors/rioters earlier in the night. He was attacked for putting out a dumpster fire and defended himself from the man who attacked (a sex offender, btw, big loss there).\n\nDid he violate gun laws? Most likely, but he is not guilty of murder and that's what this case is showing.",
"Oh link please",
"for what it's worth, didn't NPR only publish that AFTER and ACCORDING TO the content of sworn statements to law enforcement?",
"So to be clear, he should have waited w/ his gun down until the three dudes had their hands on him and he loses his ability to defend himself?\n\nThis is after he has been hit previously while running from these same people and have others screaming to \"GET HIM\".\n\nAlso, he did not shoot the 3rd guy who put his hands up. Only the first two who actually continued threatening him after he fell.",
">Those 2 people aren't on trial here. Even if they had the right to defend themselves from Rittenhouse that doesn't remove Kyle's own right to self defense.\n\nSo if the crowd had persisted, and kyle kept shooting people as they ran up to him to try and stop him as his body count racked up, you think he would be legally allowed to stand in the street killing everyone that approached him? Maybe legally allowed to kill 20 or 30 people if he had the ammunition and they didn't stop trying to disarm him? \n\nNo, the situation is not going to be evaluated solely in terms of the momentary interaction between him and the others, but in the context of whether he was culpable for instigating a wider situation and acting irresponsibly in doing so, which he was.",
"not around corners",
"You aren't allowed to attack someone because people are yelling and pointing at them and claiming they shot someone.",
"Well considering that he hasn't been charged for any of this yet it's a relevant question to see if the charges are applied with a political bias",
">If these prosecutors were allowed to do their job without the cameras and news people, they may not have ever brought charges, or at least these charges, to begin with. But instead we have a DA that is probably worried about press and their career, more than the law, so they push for the highest charge to make the biggest spectacle possible.\n\nNot for nothing, but if [Jaleel Stallings](https://kstp.com/news/saint-paul-man-who-shot-at-minneapolis-police-in-self-defense-acquitted-of-all-charges-by-jury/6224974/) had to go to trial, Rittenhouse should too.",
"Trolling the whole time, got it.",
"haha what?! i haven't seen an episode of SNL since the early 2000s. it's gotten pretty bad. but...that's an insult, to you? when i called out your *extremely* stupid statement, you thought, \"I'll totally say this guy loves SNL. That'll get em!\"\n\nPhew. Keep on piling on the pathetic levels, brah. And sleep with one eye open, NPR IS COMING TO GET YOU! AHHHH!!!",
"A guy is running from a mob, the mob continues to chase him, he then trips, one of the members of the mob attacks him with a skateboard, he defends himself from mob by shooting the armed assailant with the skateboard. \n\nIf I now shoot the man who was chased down assaulted and defended himself that is not self defense that is murder.\n\nYou can't shoot someone who is defending themselves from attackers and claim self defense.",
"That is what is called an \"opinion piece.\" \"Reporting\" is stating what happened, not trying to draw conclusions from it.",
"Because he was being attacked and has video evidence of such. I don't understand how people keep missing this point? Here, I have an idea. Did Jacob Blake deserve to get shot?",
"Yes, a kid showed up to a protest with a gun with the express purpose of playing vigilante. It ended up with multiple fatalities at his hands. How are people seeing anything else?",
"He was part of the group that was hounding Rittenhouse initially. There is no way that he didn't see the first two chase after Rittenhouse, and if he didn't then he had zero excuse to draw his firearm.\n\nOne of the first things they teach you in every CWP class is that you *do not* insert yourself into situations with a weapon drawn unless you are 100% certain that your actions in doing so are legally justified. Which Grosskreutz failed to do.\n\nSo whether he was or wasn't aware of the situation is irrelevant. Either way he did not act in a safe or lawful manner.",
"But isn't the tree of terrible decisions relevant? \nIf it can be shown he went looking for trouble, can self defense be claimed after he found it. \nGlad I'm not on the jury.",
"i wouldn't say it's government overreach to prosecute a dude who took to the streets with an assault rifle to find trouble and shoot protestors. it's not like he was defending his home or business... he was just out looking for an altercation. i could be wrong, but I thought that he wasn't even from that area. \n\nGrosskreutz only even drew his weapon after two other people had been shot in close proximity to him. they wouldn't even be having this discussion if he'd just pulled the trigger when he drew his glock. or had he just not drawn his gun at all... but I can't blame somebody for being terrified enough to draw a weapon of their own after seeing two other people get shot right near you.",
"Its funny because Huber tried to take his gun a couldnt because of the body strap, and he only shot huber when he had his hands on the weapon and pulling on it, and he only shot him once\n\nAnd yet with rosenbaum he never touched the weapon and he shoots him 4 times (in semi-auto)",
"I don't consider Rittenhouse a victim. The prosecutor has dropped the ball terribly in this case imo, and if I was a juror I'd likely acquit based on the trial giving us reasonable doubt, but I think it's pretty clear Kyle went looking for a fight.\n\nHe visibly brought an AR-15 to what was in his eyes a chaotic riot with no serious training in order to act as a vigilante cop. The cops who allowed him to continue his antics should be fired for enabling civilian militia action like that.\n\nNow, even though he went with the intention to act as a sort of militia man, it appears he didn't have the chance to police the area - others present saw the gun and went after him first. Which is an easily foreseeable consequence of Kyle being there. The law as it stands might even have let off the first people who went after Kyle.\n\nWhich is a commentary on how fucked America is.\n\nBut doesn't change the fact that Rittenhouse is a rotten wannabe vigilante who in my opinion will inspire many others (and perhaps even himself) to conduct themselves similarly.",
"Yeah it might seem like that if you have no idea what's going on. Have a great day!",
"This trial really means a lot to you, huh?",
"Yes you've taken a big L here. It's ok tho, dust off your skinny jeans and keep trucking buddy.",
"I do agree that he had the *right* to be there, it is a free country after all. However, I don't think he *should* have been there because I don't believe anything good can possibly come from an armed 17 year old kid walking around in a riot.",
"When you brought up anecdotal evidence of London's police etiquette as a defense of American police etiquette, literally one comment ago.",
"Who said bodily harm??? You're conflating two things to make the argument better for yourself. No, I wouldn't try to or want to kill someone because they were stealing from me. I think that's a common sentiment. I'm defending a human beings right to live. Do you think that you should be shot dead if you were shoplifting? What if it was Sam Walton himself shooting you, would it be justified then?",
"He shot him because he was trying to take his gun. Everyone who died or got shot was actively trying to threaten Kyle's life. He did try to leave before anyone even fired a shot. He only stopped running because some idiot fired a warning shot and Kyle correctly turned to face whoever did it because you won't run from bullets.",
"Do you think that a court of law will or should consider those details? Maybe they should and maybe they will. I don't know. I just hope the jury rules based on the evidence and not because they either hate Trump or hate Biden.",
"That kid isn’t the police or the military or the fire department. Take your “law and order” dog whistle somewhere else and make a new account called “HashtagWannaBeIllegalVigilante” instead.\n\nThe court case that this post is about is about murder, not property damage. That is the “problem” we are discussing. The other “rioters” without guns who were there didn’t kill anyone, shocker I know.",
"Nothing Kyle could have done justifies assault, so it's kind of irrelevant.",
">Why would he fear for his life?\n\nBecause he isn't privy to all the information in the chaotic moments during the incident. I haven't listened to the testimony but if you hear gunshots and see some people as dead that doesn't mean you process the events correctly.\n\n>But I think if you start to pursue someone that may fall apart.\n\nDepending on your time window.",
"Buildings last a lot longer than people and are considerably more useful",
"Correct, it's the murder he just committed beforehand that was threatening, and the fact that nobody had any reason to take him at his word even if they had been able to hear him, which they did not.",
"This is misleading and to some degree incorrect.\n\nThe circumstances do matter. The very definition of murder in most states has different degrees based on the state of mind of someone who is committing the murder. If you premeditate a murder for instance, that is a higher offense than if not.\n\nThey also matter in the sense that Rittenhouse may have broken other laws that day, and he can get prosecuted for them. \n\nThey don't matter *insofar as the murder charge* if and only if *he successfuly argues the self defense, defense*. It looks like he may just do just that with regards to Grosskreutz - but it is not a foregone conclusion and this is misleading.",
"That's wrong. Grosskreutz lied and said he didn't chase Kyle but then when shown video evidence of him chasing Kyle with a hand on his gun he admitted he chased Kyle.\nNo, grosskreutz admitted in court he's affiliated with revolutionary groups, gave speeches and said long live the revolution. Do you know what a communist revolution involves?\n\nI'm stating facts. Inconvenient for you facts, but facts from the trial",
"Read the rest of the statute you quoted \n\n> on land under the ownership of the person or the person's family if no license is required and if the firing of firearms is permitted on that land\n\nDid rittenhouse own the land? Did his family?",
"*Today at the OJ Simpson trial, Simpson tried on the bloody glove found at the scene of the murder. Nothing much else happened.*\n\n- NPR, 1995",
"Jack Posebic lmao isn’t this the same dude that still hasn’t figured out 81 million is bigger than 74",
"My bad, I should’ve just said proof. There’s no proof Rittenhouse is a “woman beater”. There is proof rosenbaum was a child rapist. That sit better with you?",
"Soldiers have significantly higher standards of when they are allowed to shoot their gun than civilians. \n\nAlso there is no world where being forcefully disarmed by an aggressive isn't a mortal threat.",
"That article is biased as shit. They never once mention that Grosskreutz pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. They repeatedly call Rittenhouse a murderer and give sympathy to Grosskreutz. I didn't realize NPR was so shitty.",
"https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5zr9/comment/hjytw12/?utm\\_source=share&utm\\_medium=web2x&context=3",
"Nah the law can sort it out, you're making excuses",
"Maybe that's why you don't bring such a weapon to this kind of situation?",
"Kyle shot two people in self defence, so that's the 2A argument that guns are great for personal protection",
"The part that's bullshit is that you think there's nothing impressive about his precision in that situation because it was at short range. A counter point would be seeing the handiwork of NYPD when they magdump at a target 5 yards away and hit nothing but bystanders",
"Imagine thinking in such a weird absolutist way, as if there is no nuance in the world.\n\n>Did the guns stop that car from burning?\n\nNo, but it's very likely that a lot more damage would have been caused by rioters if there wasn't an armed presence.\n\n>Did the car burning kill anyone?\n\nAgain, no, but an action doesn't need to kill somebody to harmful to them. People's livelihoods are very much a thing that should be protected against angry mobs.",
"L keep responding lmao L",
"The rioters shouldn’t have been there either so you’re whole “breaking into your house” point is completely invalid. This took place in a public place that neither party had a right to",
"Right? Like these people are arguing that what? He goes to work with an illegal rifle every time?",
">travelling across state lines with a gun \n\nInteresting that they didn't charge him for this eh? Might almost make you wonder if it didn't happen.\n\n>threatening people\n\nOh gosh how strange they didn't charge him for this either! Must be a coincidence.\n\n>posing with a a group recognized as a terrorist group in othe countries.\n\nLOL\n\nIn some countries america is considered a terrorist group.",
"Looking at the charges, I don't think any felonies will stick.",
"You're at a riot, waving your rifle around like a G.I.cunt. I wonder what kind a mindset you have to be in to go to a hostile location with a deadly weapon and than cry self defense when you kill people. None of the rioters killed anyone, but you \"the good guy with a gun\" killed people. I wonder if I killed someone in front of cops if they would just let me walk away with the murder weapon. Like wtf, he literally went there knowing he was going to shoot people. Now you got white supremacist looking at this murderer like a hero, same way they look up to Zimmerman. Two killers walking around getting praised for killing unarmed people. Thats the America yall love so much.",
"So he is not from Illinois or he bought the gun in Wisconsin? Help me out here. What facts do I have incorrect?",
"\"He shouldn't have been there so I shot him\" isn't a great defense. He wouldn't know anyone was there had he not travelled to somewhere he shouldn't be himself. \n\" I broke into the building but there was already another robber there so I shot him, he shouldn't be a robber.\"",
"Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm making no judgment on the content, just saying that if the excerpt is out of context in the Facebook \"synopsis\" (really it's called a snippet in SEO terms), then the fault is still with NPR, since they can control how that text appears whenever their link is shared on social media platforms. Most people don't realize this is possible and think that Facebook or other platforms make that choice.",
"Rittenhouse should be a cop he shot less bystanders than most police shootouts.",
"Yeah that was exactly it, thanks. \n\n\nI posted this earlier: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5zr9/comment/hjytw12/?utm\\_source=share&utm\\_medium=web2x&context=3",
"I don't know. I realized I don't know enough about the law or the case to make a sufficient reply, so I deleted it. I hate this case.",
"10 years? NPR has managed to maintain a level of journalistic integrity above just about any other news source since the laws on news organizations being unable to profit from advertising during the news segments was lifted. They never needed advertising, so they don't need to sensationalize things to an extreme to get views to stay profitable.",
"The prosecution is charging him with Murder.\n\nThe defense is not denying the killing, but claiming self defense.\n\nSo the Jury has to determine if the case meets that states definition of self defense or not. If it does, then he's free to go. If he doesn't, he goes to jail for murder, since he has openly admitted to the killings in the first place.",
"Like I said, in all the instances where he used the rifle, the evidence indicates that he was using it in self defence.\n\nThere's no evidence that he used it unprovoked, nor is there any evidence that he outwardly provoked the people who he was defending himself against. Had they not try to chase after an armed person (a very stupid idea no matter who you are), it's likely he'd have never used it.",
"Technically speaking, Kyle murdered two people in the middle of committing a crime. He was illegally caring. Apply to him like you would others committing crimes and you have a guilty.",
"Wow, that's horrible. You're not one of those \"I love america\" cats. Cause that would make it seem like you don't really give a shit about fellow Americans. Just the profit margins of target",
"objection, speculation",
"Maybe, I don't even know what article he's referring to.",
">Any person under 18 years of age who **possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor**.\n\nIt's illegal. He can own it in the sense that daddy bought it for him it's locked up in daddy's garage, not owning it in the sense of him roaming the fucking streets with a round in the chamber and his finger on the trigger.",
"This is not true, the states with the highest gun death rates are red. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm",
"And it turned out Zimmerman was. Apiece of garbage who got off when he likely shouldn’t have",
"Everything you've said is just rubbish legally. Watch the trial, it's live right now. The prosecution certainly isn't saying it's void, they're trying to show that they weren't needed, which is obviously bullshit",
"That's not true, the car dealership that Rittenhouse was defending among other businesses that were burned down were denied by insurance because it didnt cover for arson. The buisness owners suffered all the losses. Also 25 people were killed during the riots.",
"So... He should have not had a weapon and just fought the pedophile twice his size hand-to-hand? \n\nOh yeah, also the guy that jump kicked him, the guy with the skateboard, and the fake-medic with the handgun too?",
"Yeah, the 4 shots in a second is pretty crazy. Almost like a burst fire but I’m guessing he just panicked and squeezed the trigger a bunch really rapidly.",
"Oh so two people tried to disarm a guy that seemed dangerous and, in the end, was?\n\nI thought this was exactly why we all need guns? \n\nHot fuck, y'all are excusing so much.",
"thats what they call people who've been killed while in court. just like how kyle is the defendant (even though you think he should walk)\n\nedit: and im fine waiting, and i'll accept whatever a jury of his peers gives him. You're being pedantic, and I'm being reasonable. if it were open and shut, it would have been that, and no trial. but there is, so its probably more complex than you're giving it credit for.",
"does this change anything about the fact that Rittenhouse murdered other people?",
"It isn't, but it also is. [See *on the liberal bias of facts*.](https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/on-the-liberal-bias-of-facts/)",
"wow",
"LMAO surge of violence from ANTIFA. Okay",
"Yup, some timestamps from the first day of the trial\n\nhttps://youtu.be/8JIra82WW3I?t=1696\n\nhttps://youtu.be/8JIra82WW3I?t=6930",
"Correct, but you do when you create the circumstance by acting as a threat to others.",
"i think everyone is forgetting this is the 3rd person to be shot..",
"Because you aren't paying close enough attention, maybe? This guy was the third guy shot. Two people lay dying on the ground. This guy is there (at the rally thing) to provide medical attention. He gets there and a gun is pointed at him, a gun that he knows the holder is prepared to use. He had already testified that he feared for his life at this point. The gun is pointed elsewhere and he moves forward to try and disarm the guy. I find it hard to think he's an asshole. \n \nFrankly, this only sounds problematic because the defense is doing their jobs. They asked him basically the same questions he had already been asked, but they framed them in such a way to try to make the answers feel contradictory. And yet, the premise of the defense's question is that this guy had already been held at gun point.",
"I've trained CCL in this jurisdiction and there's a reason that crowd is treating Rittenhouse like a pariah.\n\n1. Rittenhouse was carrying illegaly.\n2. Deadly force isn't justified in WI based on what was done to him.\n3. Grosskreutz \\*would\\* be justified in using deadly force.",
"Think you need to read up on the definition of active shooter. He was not actively killing random people when running away towards police.... smh\n\nThe people he shot while running away were actively pursuing him",
"First Amendment protected speech has been argued to \"provoke\" a \"regular\" person many times and it has almost always been upheld/protected. This law is talking about doing something so unlawful that it provokes a person to violence or force. NO reasonable person would believe that a person one year older exercising a Constitutional right is just dandy and a person NOT one year older is so egregiously breaking the law by exercising that same Constitutional right that they forfeit their human, ancient right of self-defense. But then again, you are talking about lefties and I qualified my statement with a \"reasonable\" person. You may be right that lefties who are butthurt by, or afraid of, open-carrying would TRY to make that argument, but that is not a REASONABLE position.",
"I am saying it is moot. Since he had a rifle not an SBR. And if it was an unregistered SBR without a tax stamp that would be a federal crime in addition to any state crime.",
"Okay, so you're not watching the trial and are just going for a non-gotcha? \n\n\n[The entire reasoning why when Gaige draws his weapon matters is to show intent](https://youtu.be/Bv21bE9PWtE?t=8894), he states he holsters it in the small of his back during the night, he draws it as people are shouting for people to 'get his ass' at Kyle as he runs from the mob (\"after he murdered a pedophile you bigot!\" - you probably after this comment) and Gaige was already told by Kyle himself that he was going to the police. \n\n\nKeep arguing in CLEAR bad faith.",
">But the first guy shot was chasing him down w/ a mob behind him and trying to take the teens gun.\n\nAnd if I recall correctly, someone fired a pistol into the air just prior to the shooting in question, so that certainly didn't help.",
"Touch grass",
">If he didn't have the weapon he'd likely have been smart enough to stay out of the fray completely.\n\nVery true.\n\n>As a Canadian it's absolutely fascinating watching Americans be more concerned over the right to own, flaunt, and use a weapon than the lives of their citizens.\n\nIt really is bizarre for those of us observing on the outside.",
"Fair, just pointing out that NPR isn't at fault for people willfully misinterpreting both the snippet and the article.",
"First person I never saw a threat from, second person was trying to disarm an active shooter, third person was pointing a gun at an active shooter, making him the \"good guy with a gun\" I keep hearing is why we need guns.\n\nY'all are insane. We need gun control.",
"Because the kid is a fucking moron who put himself and others in a lot of danger for no reason whatsoever. Any civilian walking around with an assault rifle like that in that kind of volatile (idiots all around you) situation should expect to possibly get killed purely based on misunderstanding/accident/idiocy. I mean, what would happen if I had just opened my door, had my conceal weapon on me, and randomly saw a kid firing on the ground with an assault rifle? \n\nRittenhouse and people like him are idiots who deserve all the shit they get. No one asked this retard to come and pointlessly \"defend\" a bunch of insured businesses for no reason.",
"Why’d he have the illegal gun?",
"Nonsense, I've seen a thousand news articles which include what they believe to be factual refutation or relevant other info. Like reports of Trump's claims on the election, for instance.\n\nAnd again, they didn't even report all of the relevant data from this testimony as I said. So even at your low standard they failed.",
"You said he should be given life, so I replied as to why he should not. By arguing morality you are really just arguing your idea of what legality *should be* rather than what it is, and honestly I'm glad I don't live in your ideal state where the legality of self defense is entirely contingent upon supposed intent rather than hard evidence and testimony. Judging by the downvotes, I'm guessing not many others would want to live there either.",
"Well yeah, in a politically volatile climate, both sides will paint their own picture of what happened.\n\nHowever, these shootings were captured on camera, plain as day, and reddit & the media networks condemned him as a white supremacist who was there looking for trouble. The videos, the evidence, and now the testimony are proving the opposite. And instead of admitting that maybe they were quick to judge, these same people are now moving the goal posts and trying to justify their quick judgment.",
"Self defence is not murder moron",
"Are you aware his father lived in Kenosha and Kyle worked there as a life guard, his most recent shift being earlier that day.\n\nYes. His community.",
"Acktually they call them decedents.",
"Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m literally only commenting what I have. I think what you wrote was nonsensical.",
">You see me shoot someone else with my gun, point your gun at me, and then I shoot you. You'd feel I was justified in shooting you?\n\nIf I witnessed you shot someone that was attacking you than I wouldn't point a gun at you. If you told me that you were going to the police than I would even help you out with that.",
"I know exactly what the other charges and they won't stick. Because the murder charge is the most severe and highly politicized charge it is literally the only charge that matters. Rittenhouse will walk and you will continue to make yourself angry because you don't understand how the legal system works.",
"Why were they attacking/chasing him?",
"Why’d he have an illegal gun?",
"I don't love America. I give a shit, but honestly unless it's someone important I'm really not going to lose sleep over an insignificant number of borderline justifiable police shootings. I definitely don't think it's worth grinding the nation to a halt over.",
"A fact which was not known to Gaige. \n\nJust like it was not known to Gaige, by his own testimony yesterday, that Rittenhouse was an active shooter.\n\nThus, the statement \"but drawing a legal firearm on an active shooter isn't the least bit controversial\" misses the mark entirely.",
"I mean the entire thing is just reeking with politics, its always going to end like this.\n\nand politics in the us is just blue team good red team bad or vice versa nowadays. no offence.",
"Then people shouldn't make baseless assumptions based on a 45 second clip pulled from an almost 2 and half hour session",
"Good lord, what a classy response.",
"I see evidence of many people chasing him as he is retreating",
"Well it depends on if he committed other felonies before he killed those people. If anything else he did was a felony then he’s guilty of felony murder",
"First person I never saw a threat, second person was trying to disarm an active shooter, third person was pointing a gun at an active shooter, making him a \"good guy with a gun\" to the 2A crowd I thought?\n\nNah, second amendment for right winger but not for the protesters? \n\nWe need gun control, y'all are insane.",
"Um, the judge already ruled the video you reference is not admissible. The reason being it wasn't a reference to rioters in general, it was in reference to a specific event and unrelated to what happened in Kenosha.\r \n\r \nThink of what would happen if every off hand remark you ever made suddenly can be used against you when you are charged with a crime. That isn't how our justice system works. It has to be relevant to the case at hand.",
"Read my whole post before replying.\n\n>if you have to quibble over whether the minutiae of the wording\n\nGet it yet? You're arguing on which portions of the text do or do not work together or stand alone. That means you have immediately lost the argument here from the perspective of reasonable doubt as to their guilt - if you can reasonably doubt the meaning of the law itself then how are you going to say you can't reasonably doubt their commission of a crime?",
"An actual case of murder is more important than Amy Siskind being an arrogant asshole on Twitter or Trump insulting journalists, though. Yes, partisanship has sickened this country deeply but even justice is now a matter of Red or Blue then our institutions are fucked and things are much worse than I fear.",
"Lots of ways to find this out - you could watch the trial - I mean you could even Google it, or hell you could even read the WIKI page. The internet is a great research tool - don't wait for people to tell you.",
"He didn't just go to a dangerous place, he went there with intent. The gun demonstrates that. \n\nThis is more like a woman going to that dangerous place and then repeatedly yelling I'm an unarmed woman come rape me until it happens.",
"They don't. In fact, the word \"murder\" or any of its derivatives show up precisely zero times in the article, which anyone with a search function in their browser can see.",
"> Oh so two people tried to disarm a guy that seemed dangerous and, in the end, was?\n\nShot because you can't go around playing vigilante.",
"Probably because it can't be confirmed it was rittenhouse that said it.",
"Okay then, the full context is that Rittenhouse had already shot two people. He had already pointed the gun at this guy. I don't think you get to argue self defense when you started the altercation, you threatened the guy and then you fired when he charged you. There is nothing problematic with this guy's testimony here except the fact that the defense lawyer asked a question framed in a manner to make the answer sound contradictory.",
"Being there to begin with is a qualifier, for all parties.",
"thank god, finally found the wisconsin judge/lawyer!",
"Oh an rittenhouse didn’t have a gun that just finished murdering someone out?",
"https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2021-11-08/man-rittenhouse-shot-says-he-didnt-mean-to-point-own-gun\n\n>[Pathologist Dr. Doug Kelley] said Rosenbaum was shot four times by someone who was within 4 feet of him. He testified that Rosenbaum was first wounded in the groin and then in the hand and thigh as he faced Rittenhouse, and then was shot in the head and in the back.\n\n>Those final two shots were at a downward angle, as if Rosenbaum was horizontal to Rittenhouse, Kelley said. Prosecutors have said this indicates Rosenbaum was falling forward, while defense attorney Mark Richards said Rosenbaum was lunging.\n\n>Kelley said both were possible.",
"Conveniently leaving out the part in this video where the defense states that his gun was pointed at Rittenhouse when his bicep was blown off and he says: \"Correct\". Very unbiased of them to leave that crucial part out.",
"Ah, missed what you were going for there. Thanks for clarifying!",
"You see how you keep changing the circumstances so the person is most definitely an active shooter? This situation didn't involve anyone trapped in a closet being hunted from room to room. If you're in the street and someone shouts \"FUCK THAT GUY UP, HE SHOT SOMEONE\" and you join the mob of 20+ people chasing them, you have absolutely no excuse. Involving yourself in something like that is pure egoism and narcissism. There's no reasonable belief that you're saving anyone in that situation. \n\n>yeah you can shoot people if you're scared\n\nI can understand why someone like you would think that's the implication of self defence, because the way you keep posting stupid hypothetical tells me you have no idea how or why court works.\n\nIn a self defence situation we don't simply ask, \"were you scared?\". We look at events as they unfolded and retroactively examine the perspective of the person who claimed to defend themselves. This is how we establish whether their fear was justified or rational. In this way we could look at a situation where you were trapped in a closet while an armed man went from room to room looking for you, and establish whether it was rational to assume this person meant you harm, and if your attempts to defend yourself were bolstered by reason.",
"mmm yeah good point tbf.",
"Hahahah imagine typing like this unironically",
"And none of what happened would have been as catastrophic if there were no guns involved",
"Luckily you don't need to be any of those to defend yourself from violent thugs. If you hear dog whistles, it's likely because you're a dog, though. \n\nAnd correct, this is an example of the insane politicization of prosecutorial discretion. Grosskreutz is caught on camera committing a crime, admits to the crime in testimony under oath, and had zero charges. He's also the only witness to not surrender his phone to the police for evidence retrieval, despite the existence of evidence because he was streaming everything, and despite the police having a warrant for his phone that they chose to not serve under the advice of the prosecution. You accidentally stumbled onto a real point, chucklefuck.",
"Lmfao the white knights for Kyle are ridiculous “hE wAs PrOtEcTiNg ThE cOmMuNiTtY”, he very well may get off on self defense but that kid is a piece of shit regardless of the minutia of the self defense. Not saying he’s guilty, I’m saying he’s a piece of shit.",
"neither do I, but it would be strange for them to publish an article with no source of info... surely the information about the way it all went down came from the statements.",
"Then why did he have an illegal gun?",
"So providing aid to people in need, putting out fires and offering people help is an act of aggression?\n\nNone of that changes his right to defend himself. He was not being aggressive. Holding a rifle is NOT an act of aggression. Show me where he was pointing it at innocent people in any of the videos. He only pointed it at people attacking him. He tried to flee the area. Nothing about what he did was aggressive. Even when he was shooting it was clearly defensive by his movements. \n\nYou are a dishonest person and part of what is wrong with this world. Either that or insanely stupid, but the levels of stupid this would require would leave you unable to operate a keyboard, so dishonest is the only possibility.",
"He is a minor, in possession of a firearm, hired to do a job he wasn't old enough and legally allowed to do..... \n\nAnybody taking the gun from Rittenhouse is protected by law, because the minor in possession of a firearm that doesn't have legal grounds to have it pointed at anyone outside of his own home. It's no longer defending himself, because the crowd is defending themselves disarming him. Rittenhouse put everybody in this situation, and thusly the consequences should find him.",
"But you did point your gun in my scenario. That's the justification here. If you pointed your gun at me while you took some time to process what was going on in the chaotic scene, I'd be justified in shooting you?",
"I am not sure what instigating he did beyond illegally bringing a gun over state lines to play at being a \"hero\". That was a very stupid decision on his part, and one he should be tried for.\n\nHowever in all of the videos i have seen, i dont see him getting into anyone's face. Nor do i see him using his gun in a threatening manner until the first guy he shoots actually chases him down. (and even then he only turns after someone else in the crowd fires a pistol into the air)\n\nI also fully agree that all parties involved in the second altercation could claim self defense giving the information they had available to them at the time. The teen was running from a \"mob\" hell bent on stopping him getting to safety. While the three front runners of the \"mob\" were trying to stop an active shooter before he could hurt more people. \n\nThe only thing to learn from this is don't stick your nose into problems that are not yours. Especially when guns are involved.",
"Thats fucking horrifying, you sound like a monster. I'm glad you don't consider yourself a moral person. \"Borderline justifyable\" LOL this is a troll, right? Selling cigarettes doesn't get the death penalty, neither does using a fake bill, or running from the police. How is that remotely justified? You fucking ghoul",
"Interestingly, if Grosskreutz had shot Rittenhouse, he could have also claimed self defense.\n\nIt's entirely possible for both parties to be defending themselves.",
"Yeah fascist country’s are often characterized by acquitting criminal defendants",
"Thanks for the observation. Really useful.",
"Lol the first post on your profile, from 20mins ago:\n\n\"*Fuck Republicans, I hope they all die!*\"\n\nThis has you triggered sooo bad haha go cry somewhere else little boy.",
"“To defend businesses in a place he doesn’t even live” — yeah he works in that town actually. Where do people usually work? Businesses. Huh.",
"And when Kyle gets jumped that’s no great loss either",
"Oh but I know exactly what's going on. You're trolling. It's super obvious. Nobody would say that ridiculous convoluted mess above seriously, so you must be trolling.",
"He could have chosen to stay his ass at the house.\n\n*NO ONE* would have been shot in that case.",
"\"Trips and falls\" is a very stupid way to say falls after being punched in the back of the head while fleeing a mob.",
"I also think he’s a murderer, but what you just explained is not how the law works at all. How can you prove he went there with intent to murder these individuals? Manslaughter maybe, but you can’t prove he went there hunting these people down.",
"we'll see! I'm perfectly willing to accept what due process gives him. if he gets off so be it. if he goes to jail, so be it. \n\n\nlong and short, if he was my son, I'd be ashamed of him.",
"Which isn't reporting. There's a thing called \"journalistic standards,\" and NPR adheres to them. That includes stating the facts only, not bringing in other facts to form a narrative, and leaving it up to the reader to make any conclusions.\n\nThat's actually a high bar to clear, and most news organizations don't clear it, because they are *for profit.* NPR is not a for-profit organization, and has no advertising to speak of, so they have no need to report anything except the facts as they happen.",
"You agree?!! They’re mad annoying",
"He’s a child rapist for fucks sake",
"Funny how spewing bullshit lies just comes so easy to gun-toting idiots.",
"Wasn't illegal. Is legally registered in that state and was given to him to barrow. Something was pointed out if you watched the trial that is the legal way that that weapon should have been registered",
"Charged and convicted are two different things. English is a difficult language to learn, but I believe in you. Until he is convicted, the legality of him carrying a weapon is still being discussed. \n\nYou're still speculating about his motive for being there. Your assumptions are worthless. Save your breath.",
"I mean, two people were already on the ground dying at this point. The guy who shot them was pointing the gun at him. Why would him charging work out to self defense for Rittenhouse? There was a guy with a gun shooting people and he acted to stop it. The only reason people like you aren't holding Grosskreutz up as a hero and justification of the 2nd amendment is because the guy that shot him is on your side politically.",
"NY, IL and CA are Red? Who knew!?\n\nThis is why people manipulate data, those 3 states have the highest gun crimes in the country, you know it, everyone knows it!",
"Jack didn’t record the video, are you going to refute video evidence debunking your claims? Or are you just going to double down on the stupid pills and resort ot misdirection and ad hominem attacks",
"I don't even really agree with the death penalty period. But I'm pretty indifferent about this entire topic until it starts affecting people who contribute to society.",
"Why?",
"Why do so many people who haven’t watched the video have an opinion on this, lol",
"I remember reading about a Wisconsin law that didn’t allow self-defense as an excuse if the person was breaking the law at the time and since Kyle had crossed state lines with a gun he didn’t own and was underage, he was breaking the law. That said, I’m no legal expert.",
"The fact the DA that actually brought the charges handed off the case to an assistant DA to try speaks volumes.",
"Oh, if he were my son he wouldn't have been allowed out of the house. But I wouldn't let my kids out past dark, riot or not. Crazy ass country.",
"Your second bullet point is actually very important, and it seems that as long as it can be established that Rittenhouse was in fear for his life and that he did not specifically provoke anyone to attack him just so he could retaliate, he was within the bounds of self-defense law in Wisconsin, even if he himself was committing a crime or created the circumstances under which the self defense was used.\n\n*A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.*\n\n*A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.*\n\nhttps://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48",
"was he about to let him swing and have his head caved in?",
"No body should. That’s why this trial should never have been as big of an issue as it is. Unlike o.g. Simpson.",
"LOL he fucking posed and smiled about. This is exactly what he fucking wanted. \n\nHell he has a history of violence already. He beat a girl just a month before this",
"Yeah, if you want the entire court testimony, you can look it up. They already mentioned that he stated he had his hands down, gun in hand, while running at Rittenhouse.",
"Where this auto plays from, this still looks like self defense. He trips and falls and one attempts to kick him the head as he stumbled to the ground. While another attempts to hit him in the head with skateboard truck.\n\nThey probably assume he’s a threat because he has a firearm, while Kyle assumes they’re a threat trying to get and take away his firearm.",
"First person yelled he was going to kill him and then ran behind him and tried to grab the gun. Self defense.\nSecond person chased someone who shot a man in self defence and was running to the cops to surrender aka retreating as the law requires. Second person also tried to smash his head with a skateboard, something grosskreutz admitted put him in danger of head trauma aka self defense \nThird person ran with his hand on his gun to a retreating man, watched him get assaulted, admitted he thought Kyle was in danger of head trauma and still pulled a gun on him - self defence. \n\nNo, guns kept Kyle alive from people that wanted to kill him. You're just wrong.",
"Have you not been following the trial? The prosecutions witnesses literally confirmed he was lunging for the gun.",
"Nah see this whole Alternative Facts, Alternative Reality bs is not true. There is one reality. Can multiple facts exist in that reality? Yes, but not facts that completely contradict each other. \n\nThe fact here is that he was clearly not there to kill people, and only did so as a last resort of self-defense.",
"Pointing is one thing, would you have pulled the trigger?",
"copying my comment from another thread around this incident\n\n>If you mean the prosecution trying to pretend that Kyle pointed a gun at Ziminski before Rosenbaum chased him through a parking lot you might want to learn that Ziminski **WAS** armed **AND** *fired the first shot* into the air **FOR NO FUCKING REASON.** \n> \n>Not only that, but the footage the prosecutors would like for us to believe shows Kyle pointing his weapon first is impossible to decipher due to graininess and a freaking traffic light blocking them during the 'crucial moment' where this supposedly takes place. \n> \n>Not only that, but someone pointing a gun at you \\[which I personally think is bs\\], doesn't then forfeit their right to self defense, you can't just chase them through a parking lot after verbally threatening people (even specifically Kyle) that night (The Rosenbaum character evidence has already been established in court, but don't let that stop y'all from defending this crazy motherfucker)",
"Everyone salty about the literal fucking pedo dying is automatically sus as fuck. Hope no kids are left unsupervised around you.",
"Jury should consider that charging a guy who pointed a gun at you doesn't give the first guy a self defense out.",
"I mean we can sit and guess why he went forever but it means nothing lol\n\nYour just arguing whether on not he's a dick at this point, like I don't know, probably... maybe not.\n\neven if he's the biggest dick in the world, your still not allowed to chase him down... and if you do, he's still allowed to shoot you.",
"So you think people literally deserve to die because they annoy you?",
"ill edit my comment if it allows us to move past the pedantry. \n\n\nas I said, I'll accept whatever a jury of his peers gives him. im not unreasonable, but defensive shootings are COMPLEX AS FUCK. and so i'll wait.",
"That’s how “law and order works.” Don’t like it? Quit pretending to champion the legal system. Own your anarchic lawlessness for what it is instead of hiding behind the law you hate like a coward.",
"There's clear video evidence of it I don't know what else to tell you. Gun control never works look at every major city.",
">**a person 12 years of age or older may possess or control a firearm**\n\nIt's legal. He can own it in the sense that he can shoot rioters in self defense when they chase him down the street and try to take his gun.\n\nYou're missing the clear part of what I said above that makes what I quoted relevant. If you have to quibble wording and end up with contradictory laws, you can't convict someone on that basis. That would be ridiculous. You can't rule out reasonable doubt of commission of a crime if there's reasonable doubt of whether it's a crime under the law.",
"Did Kyle know that about him?",
"Being there is not illegal, carrying the gun may or may not of been legal (jury to decide). Self defense (your vigelente) is also on trial. It has been shown through evidence that kyle was not there to hurt people",
"Yes, and in straw purchases, the one who did the purchase is the one who gets charged. Not the recipient.",
"He’s 17. It’s not legal for him to have a gun",
"How? They were mad and protesting which is an American right. He showed up with a gun with seemingly no plan to an area where he knew emotions and tension were high, gotta leave that to the professionals (police and national guard).",
"Yes, but the physic of how that puts a bullet in the back of someone who is facing you is what I'm not seeing.",
"I’m saying that this guy has a long history of making shit up. The dude literally thinks Donald trump won the 2020 election! You trust that guy?",
"I'm not saying it should be, nice straw man.",
"They were rioters",
"The second man Rittenhouse killed had no way of knowing where Rittenhouse was running. What a bizarre thing to make up.",
"They annoy the general public, not just me lol. Ask anyone in the service industry 😂",
"Political prosecution is how law and order works? Are you really stupid, or just pretending?",
"The person who originally made the comment about NPR isn't the same person who posted the NPR article from yesterday (if that makes sense) but yes, I agree that they should post it.",
"Congrats, that wall of text means nothing.\n\nI use it all the time while diving or playing the circle game with my buddies, does that now make me a white supremacist according to your conspiracy theory?",
"These are not the same. \nYou are equating a woman going to a bar, legal, completely reasonable behavior, and someone illegally possessing an assault rifle and going to the riot specifically because it was a riot. \n\n\nKyle had the right to go to the protest. If he had a legal concealed carry permit, then you can argue it is victim blaming.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nHe brought an assault rifle he wasn't allowed to have. What were his intentions with that illegal weapon, at best?",
"And if you read on you would see the following text: \n\n“the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.”\n\nI’m not convinced that Rittenhouse’s actions meets this “exhausted every other reasonable means” condition. One could say running away works, but he has a gun, how far away from a rifle do I have to be to be safe from it? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to disarm yourself to display that you don’t want to hurt anyone else?\n\nJust want to re-emphasize, I don’t know enough to say Rittenhouse is guilty or not. However, I do not see how someone can be so sure of either with all the language pertaining to self-defense in Wisconsin statutes.",
"The murky part for me is, his presence with that gun was already breaking the law. I assumed that once your activity breaking the law it's harder to claim the right of self defense",
"Possessing an illegal gun does not make his actions not self-defense.",
"You're right, he shouldn't have gone to that part of town dressed like that. He was asking for it.\n\nHave you noticed any parallels yet?",
"Okay, because the guy being held at gunpoint charged the guy pointing a gun at him, the guy pointing the gun gets to say they acted in self defense. Sure thing bud, that makes so much sense.",
"walking the streets with a gun then killing people with it is murder.",
"Okay if that's the case then if we can prove or show that a criminal in any situation was scared for his life then that criminal gets to murder people. Regardless of their previous actions. As long as they feel like their lives were in danger from non police actors they get a pass. That seems wrong.",
"No you don't, not when that \"threat\" is legal. He open carried in a state where that is legal, and he legally utilized his right to self defense. None of this denies him to his right of self defense.",
"The 10 years was in reference to the last decade of right-wing media and politicians ramping up the rhetoric about \"MSM\" being dishonest, corporate shills, not a reference to how long NPR has been doing quality journalism.\n\nThe years leading up to 2016 and the ensuing Trump Presidency have been characterized by a vilification of all journalistic sources that don't align with the right.",
"He was probably just playing the odds.",
"It's nonsensical cause you haven't watched any of the videos and have no idea what the court trial is even about; educate yourself about the situation and the facts will make more sense.",
"That is the question at hand, those 3 attacked Kyle with intent to harm. How is that NOT self defense? That is why I asked the question, not make a statement! \n\nIf they intend on causing great bodily harm, Rosenbaum did, who has the right to live, him or Kyle? \n\n\nKyle wasn't defending anything but himself. It really isn't that hard to understand.",
"You don't carry a firearm without intent to use it. That's literally the whole point of carrying it.",
"Holy misinformation, wow. \n\nGrosskreutz testified he was following the commotion, not “chasing” Kyle.\n\nThe “revolutionary” group is called The People’s Revolution and that group is neither communist or trying to overthrow the government. They are a BLM offshoot seeking social justice.\n\nYou aren’t stating facts, you’re regurgitating far right misinformation.",
"You're justified in defending your life. \n\n>If you pointed your gun at me while you took some time to **process what was going on**\n\nA person shouldn't be pointing their gun at people without having a clear understanding of the situation, that's how innocent people get killed.",
"👌 There bud, you are totally not engaging in conspiracy theorizing.",
"That is why the admission that Kyle didn't shoot when Gauge showed signs of surrender and only fired when the pistol was then aimed at Kyle is so important.",
"So, just to be clear, you don't care if someone is randomly shot and killed by a civilian without trial or charge, if you can dig something up about them after the fact to justify their randomly being killed by a civilian without trial or charge?",
"'traveled out of state'\n\nHe lives 1 min from the border. His house was 20 minutes away. He didn't 'travel'. He works there and then stayed after work to protect a nearby business who he knew the owner of that had sustained 1.5 million in damages the previous night.\n\nI can drive 20 minutes in any direction and not even leave my city.\n\nKeep intentionally misrepresenting the situation, though, I'm sure no one will see through it.",
"Yeah I couldn't keep track. I was flooded by 10+ messages saying NPR lied.",
"We can go around in circles all day, but no, he shouldn't have been there with that weapon. \n\nYou can find criminals in any crowd, I would imagine. Just so happens you get to know the background of these people's lives and tear them down because it fits your argument. As others have said, in the moment, the gun was winning, and was able to kill a hell of a lot more than that skateboard or the kick, or even the handgun. In that moment, I think people saw someone with a big ass gun and tried to neutralize the shooter. We get to look at clips and rewind pause all day long to figure out what happened before during and after...hindsight. The problem is there are consequences associated with all of these actions, and it's my opinion that if he hadn't brought that big ass gun to the fight, it would not have ended like this.",
"Ok so youre only angry about kyle showing up. I agree, he shouldnt have been there, but that isnt the point of this case and it will not affect any of the legality. The act of self defense was not poor decision making, it was putting himself in that situation.\n\nAnd this says a lot about how our kids are growing up. Of course a teenager is gonna make some bad decisions. But when we politically charge them so much with tv and social media, you end up in shitty situations like this. A child shouldnt be so involved in politics that he goes to a riot with a gun",
"They won’t, the defense has shitted all over the prosecution’s case. There’s no grounds for mistrial and if you move to base that on a witness the prosecution called the case will be thrown out entirely.",
"So in any scenario where two people have guns pointed at each other, both are legally free to fire in self defense?",
"It is literally happening before your very eyes. This is how the system works, whether you approve or not.",
"1. The US military/police budget is irrelevant to this kid’s right to defend himself.\n\n2. Someone isn’t a white supremacist just because you say they are.",
"LOL what? \n\nThe law is clearly stated. For being under the age of 17 you need to be on family or family friend owned land. Read your own Damn quote",
"Yeah, no. He wasn't hired to do any job and like all the rioters and everyone else was in violation of a curfew.\n\nJust like i said when this happened this is going to be a self defense case and RH is going to get off.\n\nA minor in possession of a firearm isnt a legal ground to attempt to disarm someone to take possession of a gun. The attempt to disarm someone of a firearm is perfect grounds for self defense. The fact that RH was retreating at every step and only fired when he was defending himself also goes towards his defense. Every witness the prosecution has put on the stand has strengthened the defense. \n\nThe only reason this case hasn't been dropped is because of politics.\n\nEdit:\n\nIf i see you smoking crack, I know crack is illegal. It doesnt make it legal for me to take it from you and destroy it.",
"Yeah, they should just let the city get torched.\n\nI'm not going to shed any tears for pedophiles and criminals with rap Sheets a mile long getting killed in the act of pillaging",
"So why did he have an illegal gun?",
"> the way you keep posting stupid hypothetical tells me you have no idea how or why court works.\n\nYeah I'm not gonna waste any more time trying to have a conversation with someone as stupid as you.",
"I think he’s stupid and a shitty person, but that’s not how the law/right to carry works so we can’t prosecute with that argument.",
"There are some pictures of him cleaning some graffiti during the day time (before he got any weapons). But that's a completely different time and place.\n\nHe responded to a militia social media call, went and bought cheap tactical gear at a store with a buddy to accompany the rifle he took, and set up at a used car lot to \"guard\" it.\n\nAre you talking about the literal dumpster fire in the street barricade? I guess you could count that but he's not a law enforcement agent. He's already way over his head at this point. He's a 17 year old with a gun he shouldn't have hanging it with a self appointed militia who were, at best, participating in honest but still illegal vigilantism; now featuring a teenage soldier.",
"Why did he have an illegal gun? Why did he decide to “protect businesses”",
"You are wrong, and I don’t know why you are even trying to guess. You are obviously riled up for a fight that I’m not interested in.\n\nReread my comments and yours and maybe you’ll catch on. Or keep thinking anytime anyone comments to you they are your enemy and uninformed or trying to hit you with a gotcha. Whatever floats your boat I guess.",
"I'd ask those questions somewhere more credible than Reddit. Self defense varies by state.",
"I don't see why not, America did it in Afghanistan",
"Because when you advance on someone, it implies that a confrontation is going on. Chasing implies one side is trying to get out of or exit the confrontation.",
"> Zimmerman chased Martin despite being explicitly told not to by 911. \n\nI don't think Zimmerman should've followed or chased him and that would've been prudent to just sit and wait for police, but it didn't really come to play at trial because there was nothing illegal about this. \n\nDon't forget Zimmerman was part of the neighborhood watch, so \"observe and report\" and frustration over a string of burglaries in the neighborhood was at least some justification to try to follow someone who was suspicious. \n\n\n> That makes him the aggressor.\n\nIt's unclear who made the first move of actual aggression or confrontation. Zimmerman claimed Trayvon jumped him and was the aggressor in the actual violent event that lead to the shooting. \n\nThe eyewitness testimony and that of the pathologist supported the claim Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, beating him, at the time of the shot. \n\nThe pathologist: \n\nhttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/09/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin--marijuana/2501293/\n\nAnd testimony of John Good, you should be able to look it up online. \n\nhttps://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=196691611\n\nHere's a short clip at least: \n\nhttps://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-beaten-prosecution-witnesses/story?id=19517236\n\nMary Cutcher was also deposed but not called at trial because she was clearly very motivated against Zimmerman and couldn't keep it to herself in her deposition. She was not a good witness for either side to call, but you can look up her deposition online and I would encourage you to actually try to locate the full audio if you are interested and not just the snippet from the reports, because it was heavily spun. All of this was online years ago, having a hard time finding it now but if you search you can probably find it. \n\nWhat we don't know is if Trayvon or Zimmerman really initiated the violence.\n\nHe was charged with murder and not manslaughter which felt more appropriate to the \"following/chasing someone without specific intent to kill, but this pushed reasonableness\", and this always struct me as odd. There may be some better legalese reasoning for the specific charge, though.",
"The proud boys are not racist, lol.\n\nThey might be full of FBI agents but those agents are not racist.",
"After KR had killed two people",
"Whoa, didn't realize you were reading my mind. Yep, you caught me, I secrectly think Rittenhouse was better than Chris Kyle. /s \n\n\nRifles tend to be more accurate than handguns, especially since Rittenhouse didn't \"magdump\". Cops are a terrible comparison. They seem to be as accurate as the typical stormtrooper",
"Hahaha, wait. Your contention is that, if something happens, then it's how the system works?",
"Then why did he have an illegal gun if he was just working",
"Cool. You lose. To someone as stupid as me.",
"Interesting. So under US law (I'm a Brit so I don't know the answer) at what point does it turn from being chased with a gun purely to detain the runner, to self-defence against attempted murder. I.e. when can the runner reasonably assume their life is at threat, instead of just fearing being detained at gunpoint?",
"Oh, wow. Tell me you're super fuckin racist without telling me you're super fuckin racist. What about former veterans? You're not the support the troops type. Other wise that would seem really disingenuous",
"which is also... an American right.\n\nalso nice job on the disingenuous \"mad and protesting\" yeah dude that's exactly what was going on hahahaha",
"Are you serious? A media outlet cherry picks what parts they put in the article and that's not biased? You could argue that with literally any biased article. \"Just look up the rest of the details yourself, they don't need to include it\".\n\n>They already mentioned that he stated he had his hands down, gun in hand, while running at Rittenhouse.\n\nYou must be misunderstanding me, they did not mention the part where he admitted to having his hands UP and gun POINTED at Rittenhouse at the moment Rittenhouse fired.\n\nDo I need to get the frame at the moment his bicep was blown off? https://youtu.be/SBXHes8DcVE?t=11162",
"After perjuring himself previously you fucking moron",
"This is all political theater. If a black kid had been out past curfew, in a city he didn't live in, with a gun he wasn't allowed to have, cops wouldv have executed him on sight.",
"Why are you saying he was holding a gun illegally when that gun saved his life?",
"Because he didnt fire his weapon until advanced on? Which is the exact definition of self defense.\n\nHe also worked in that city and it was only 30 minutes away. You are spinning it to the extreme.\n\n“He ended up killing multiple people who didnt want to bow down to some dipshit with a power fantasy”\nDo you hear yourself? Where did you get this from? You are talking about a kid like this. Should the kid have been more responsible than all of the “adult victims”?",
"If the system didn’t work that way then it wouldn’t have happened that way.",
"Well you would have a legal case about whether or not that person carried a credible threat, as if they were about to assault you, yes you are allowed to shoot you. I agree the kid is an idiot and likely a bad person, but the law is fairly clear about self defense, and open carrying a rifle is not illegal",
"sure I was simplifying it. Not sure why I’m being downvoted though, it’s pretty clear why this became a political issue",
"Those pictures were the same day. He went to Kenosha for work and just didn’t leave. It’s not like he went there specifically for the protest. It’s been established already.",
"Totally absolves you of trying to kill a kid running away",
"No he admitted he was chasing Kyle in the testimony yesterday, with his hand on his gun. People in the video played were yelling to \"kill him\" \"cranium him\". So he knew where he was going and why\n\nThe people's revolution obviously will not say they're communists, because that's illegal. But Grosskreutz himself is a proud communist, it's all over his own Twitter.\n\nYou're the one spreading misinfo based on a lack of facts",
"Does a violent criminal have the right to self defense? Does a person who has already put a bullet through a strangers head have a right to self defense? Does a cop killer have the right to defend himself against police retaliation? Kyle had already killed a person who was not proven to be a threat to his life before any of this occurred. Does he still have a right to defend himself by killing people when he has already killed someone?",
"Yeah. It’s not like rittenhouse had an illegal gun and specifically went to the riot",
"They got a better/original copy of the video without “graininess” on Friday.\n\nI was watching the detective while he was on the stand yesterday.",
"He got shot in the front, and while doubling over and trying to grab the gun he fell forwards. It is the exact same thing that happened in the Michael Brown case. Where people were claiming the cop shot him in the back, but after forensics showed while the bullets entered his back they were almost going straight down, due to the bullets hitting him in the back while leaning forward.",
"Jesus Christ, you are a tard.\n\nI don't support Kyle or anyone involved in this clusterfuck because they are all violent idiots.\n\nI'm far from Kyle's \"political side\".\n\nI'm glad you don't work for the justice system.",
"No you didn’t because it’s plain. He owned a gun and killed people with it in a situation he wanted to be in. It’s murder.",
">Even the Facebook screenshot you linked doesn't say that. \n\nThe linked screenshot - in the post itself, not the link to the article in the post - clearly says \"... his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse\". Yes, they couch it in saying \"[Grosskreutz] acknowledged\" and then *paraphrasing* what he supposedly said (there are no quotes in that sentence, they are not quoting his testimony), but their paraphrasing is incorrect as that is absolutely not what he testified. You're trying to hide behind the idea they were just quoting him so it's not NPR making the statement but they weren't quoting Grosskreutz. They were paraphrasing and were wrong. \n\nYou people keep talking past each other because he said \"headline\" but he meant the social media post linking the article, and you're stubbornly ignoring what he clearly means despite mis-labeling it just so you can argue your narrative. That's disingenuous as fuck.\n\nStop. Do better. JFC.",
"Yeah protest. \n\nWhy did he go to the protest with an illegal gun?",
"And Indians use the Swastika without advocating for outright fascism. Symbols can have two meanings right? Given your inability to understand this.... You may or may not be a white supremacist, but you're certainly daft.",
"Don't know where in my post you see me making that claim. Thats a bizarre thing to make up. Anyways we know now in hindsight that's what Rottenhouse was trying to do. \n\nOnce again what the second man thinks is irrelevant in the case against Kyle's self defense. Don't think you understand that. You can have good intentions but it doesn't mean anything legally.",
"be as smug as you want. \n\nHis life was obviously under direct threat and there's videos of it. If you don't see that, then oh well \n\nAlso the gun was not from another state. if you didn't know that, now you do.",
"When the person guilty of the crime is a fascist, yes.",
"It is. Chasing states that the other one is trying to evade or at least leave. Advance doesn't require that. It doesn't imply that. In fact, it pretty strongly implies that they are not moving. That they are holding their ground. Not to mention, when the word advanced is used, he is pretty obviously talking about the final confrontation when he got shot. Not the bits leading up to the confrontation. To argue otherwise is an intentional bad faith argument.",
"> He should be given life, sorry\n\nThen on what grounds should he be not only found guilty of first degree murder but given the maximum sentence?",
"Doesn’t matter bud. He’s a murderer.",
"Tear them down? These were violent repeat criminals who only showed up to loot and burn and pillage. How about they should have stayed home? Only in clowntown can you get sympathy for burning down a city and arrested for trying to protect it. You want to abolish police? community policing? You fucking get what you asked for",
"Its all a matter of perspective and hindsight. To the people in the moment, once Kyle had shot and killed a man, he was an active shooter and they could have been (not saying they were, but could have been) acting under the impression that they needed to stop him for their own self defense.\n\nThere is more to the story than the 1-sided nature of the people who blindly say Kyle was right or the people blindly saying he was wrong.\n\nThe fact that Kyle didn't get shot says more about how the people who were trying to stop him after he shot and killed a person, weren't willing to pull the trigger as quickly as he was.\n\nAnd if he had been shot, I'm fairly certain a good case for self defense could be made, especially considering that he had already killed at least 1 person before anyone had a gun pointed at Kyle.\n\nNone of that is to say anyone here is a good person or in the right, the whole situation was a shitshow, and it in no way is a good argument that guns are great for personal protection as the shooting of 1 person directly led to the reaction of the crowd that resulted in the shooting of the 2nd person.\n\nThe gun didn't de-escalate the situation, it did the exact opposite by turning a violent confrontation into a deadly one.",
"Is it?\n\nThe right made him into a folk hero for murdering someone they disagree with politically, at a protest against extrajudicial murder.\n\nI think it's pretty clear who made this into a left v right thing.",
"They're really going to let this kid walk for murder. Be dead already if he was black.",
"Except in that article they say you can’t see the guys face. How will they prove it’s him?",
"So you're actually stupid, got it. Sorry for calling you an asshole earlier, you just assumed I was your peer when you called me dense.",
"I poorly spoke, sorry. I should have said they repeated emphasize the fact that Rittenhouse murdered people, but they never once emphasize Grosskreutz culpability. \n\nThe first line: Gaige Grosskreutz, the only person who survived being shot by Kyle Rittenhouse \n\nSecond line still makes him seem innocent. \n\n>but said that his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him and that he feared for his life.\n\nThen they quote Grosskreutz discussing his innocence. The only thing they bold in the article, which people scrolling are reading, is \n\n>Grosskreutz called the shooting one of the most traumatic experiences of his life\n\nWhich is about the least substantial part of the article, but is definitely the best if you're a biased shit journalist. \n\nI'm a lot less interested in how Grosskreutz recovered and is feeling emotionally than I am in the actual details of that night. And they do not once stay that Grosskreutz pointed his gun at Rittenhouse.",
"Oh I know the answer. You're not gonna like it. He pretended to be affiliated with a car dealership. Only he wasn't.\nYou see, he is a 17 yo kid who was illegally given a semi automatic rifle, drove across state borders to instigate violence in an area he had no business being in, especially with a rifle, where the ONLY outcome would be escalating an already bad situation.",
"The first person was a convicted child rapist who told kyle he would kill him, hid behind cars, masked up, and then chased kyle into a dead end before someone fired a gun behind kyle as he was running. When he tried to grab the rifle from him, he shot the child rapist dead.\n\nYou're not allowed to beat someone who was defending themselves from assault. You can say \"active shooter\" all you want, but this was a minor defending himself from convicted rapists, serial domestic abusers, and illegally armed rioters.\n\nWe need more people defending their communities from scum like this.",
"So you're in a mob, where people are getting shot. You see me with a gun. You don't know what I'm doing there with the gun, but you know I just shot someone. You'd never even dream of pointing your gun at me until you learned all you could about what my intentions are? How much time would you spend fact finding in that situation?",
"Well, it's a hypothetical situation that didn't happen so you really can't know what would have happened. You can respond if you want, but I think we're just going in circles.",
"He was trying to help injured people. He was doing a good thing. \n\nHe was well within his rights. He wasn't hurting anyone, until he got assaulted by the deranged mob. In my book, he did nothing wrong, and did many things right.",
"So I should go around shooting people and playing the odds?",
"Is there something *illegal* about the way it’s being done then?\n\nBecause if not…",
"He did not cross state lines with a gun, he was given the gun in Kenosha. Jesus.",
"The one guy shot people in self defense and the other guy raped a bunch of kids. \n\nBut you have a whole bunch of people arguing that the rapist guy was a “good guy” and was shit by a crazed WHITE gun toting lunatic, who should go to jail forever, because guns bad, and white people bad.\n\nBut…the rapist guy literally pointed a gun at the kid, and the kid shot him in self defense. \n\nSo, whose wrong?",
"Except for the HUGE one was old enough to legal own and possess a fire arm and one wasn’t……",
"Why did he have an illegal gun and go to the protest?\n\nSounds like he was looking for a fight",
"You are missing the point I'm making which is that he is currently going through a criminal case to decide whether his actions of that night are illegal. Other incidents should not form part of this - especially as they are not linked in any way, shape or form.\n\nOtherwise, we might as well start convicting on the basis of \"well, he *looks* the type\" rather than whether he actually committed the specific offences or not.",
"Why do people keep adding the pedophile part like it matters?",
"Where are they?????",
"No",
"At least the serial pedophile is dead.",
"They attacked him because they thought he was an active shooter. Which is why it's a bad idea to do what he did. And we have agree restrictions because kids are not always going to think things through. The people who attacked him thought they were stopping a mass shooting.",
"By going to a different state than he lives in, borrowing a gun from a friend, and going to a violent protest?",
"Yes.",
"The implication was that Rittenhouse shot someone who was retreating",
"If I say in a court of law that you are secretly a lizard person that is a blatant lie. (hopefully) If NPR then goes on to report that I **SAID** you are \"secretly a lizard person\" that isn't NPR lying. That's just them reporting on my statement.",
"You mean riots. There were riots going on. And regardless, he didn’t use that gun until he was attacked and used it in self defense. The trial going on right now is literally about this. Why aren’t you giving grosskuertz shit about taking a gun to a “protest”?",
"So your not going to comment on the video proof at all then, got it\n\nAs to your question, I trust the video evidence taken from the FBI yes",
"Ah yes more underage people with illegal guns out there shooting people.\n\nThe first guy being a pervert isn't relevant\n\nHoly fuck we need better gun control.",
"If we're gonna use that language then EVERYTHING is undecided in this case because it is still in trial. So saying it's undecided, when he's been charged with it is disingenuous. \n\nHis motive was pretty clear by going there with a group of people who's purpose was to be vigilantes to \"protect businesses\" that they had no stake in.\n\nTurning off notifications for this thread. You all have your mind made up that it's murder or nothing and since it's self defnse he must be entirely innocent of any wrong doing at all.",
"Was it the media who made Kyle Rittenhouse into a martyred folk hero for murdering someone for political reasons?",
"Well I was inspired enough to read up on the case. Came across this article which is very long but it's the only thing I've read related to this case that doesnt reek of agenda or politics. It touches on what you are referring to. It seems like every character in the story is messed up in some way.\n\nhttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/05/kyle-rittenhouse-american-vigilante",
"Mate look at literally any major city in a different country",
"*waits patiently for you to demonstrate which part is illegal and why.*",
">Are you seriously claiming that they were only trying to take the gun from him to murder him in return?\n\nRittenhouse was in retreat and being chased by Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum was also heard threatening to kill Rittenhouse. The most logical assumption for Rittenhouse to make when Rosenbaum was attempting to disarm him was to assume that Rosenbaum was going to use it on him.\n\nBesides, generally speaking, if anyone is trying to disarm you, you have to assume that they're going to use your weapon against you. If you don't assume that then you leave yourself open to considerable risk to them once they're armed with your weapon. Unless you're actively harming people with that weapon, then what other reason would they have to disarm you?",
"At the end of the day you're just wrong, I'm not going to argue with you. Your country is falling apart and it's people like you to blame. It's mindblowing to watch people like you act act as if intimidation and murder is just a normal part of political discourse. The Taliban is more balanced.",
"do everyone a favor too and never become a gun owner",
"That doesn't make it easy to shoot precisely from the hip in his situation. His level of self control with no official training is borderline super human. Comparing his situation to sniping is apple to oranges",
">more and more likely that this will be ruled as self-defense \n \nMaybe it does, but this video will have nothing to do with it, or shouldn't. This video is only talking about a situation where two people already lay dying on the ground and a guy charged the guy who put them there. I don't know how any reasonable person can call that self defense. The only reason this sounds damning is because of the framing of the question.",
"That I think is where a lot of thr question comes from is why was he there as he was, what was the intent, to be some sort of vigilante?",
"Using a defendants past examples of violence to show a pattern is exactly what lawyers do. \n\nIf the past has shown that he has violent tendencies he acts on. It’s a massive stretch to say he didn’t foresee any violence by illegally getting a rifle and going to a protest",
"NPR didn't interpret anything. They presented the testimony without analysis.",
"Was it someone else's rifle? I keep hearing that it was one that was bought for him. Hard to keep this all straight.",
"Please remember to change the year to 2019 it opens up in 2005 so data has changed and CA, NY, and IL are lower then you think. Also these states have a higher population so it makes since that there are more crimes, but the red states with less people have a higher rate of deaths with firearms.",
"Whoosh.",
"You think without the gun Kyle would have been in danger??? Jesus you people. Gun control.",
"tl;dr Summed up objective version\n\nDuring the riots of 2020, Kyle Rittenhouse went with a group of adults to provide 'security' for area businesses. No one asked them too. They just did it. They all showed up with guns.\n\nAt some point during the night, an unhinged protestor attacked Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle defended himself by shooting the protestor dead. Kyle then fled the scene in fear of being attacked by the rest of the protestors.\n\nPeople then pointed to Kyle and told people to \"Get Him\" because in their eyes he was an active shooter.\n\nSeveral people chased down Kyle and knocked him to the ground. One protestor tried to hit Kyle with a skateboard and was fatally shot. Another Protestor then aimed a handgun at Kyle and was shot in the arm, dropping the weapon. These protesters think they are trying to stop an active shooter. Kyle thinks he is being attacked by people that want to kill him.\n\nKyle then gets up, sees he is no longer under threat. Holds his gun over his head and walks 50 yards to where a line of police officers are that have just pulled up, having heard the reports of shots being fired.\n\nKyle attempts to surrender to police. Police send him on his way, not understanding what's going on. They call him the next day and he surrenders voluntarily.\n\nIt has become a wildly politically partisan argument since then.",
"After he was attacked he shot that dude too yeah\n\nCommon theme here hmmmmm",
"That is of course completely untrue. But if one gets all of their information about cops from Reddit I can see how they might be misinformed. All you will see on here are the edge cases where cops screw up or misbehave. You won't see the 99% of typical cases.",
">by inserting himself into what he attested to be (so he believed) a potentially volatile situation, then the self-defense argument is moot.\n\nNot how it works.",
"imagine getting mad because a witness eventually tells the truth, after lying in 2 police statements that he didn't have a concealed pistol with him. \n\npeople will try to jump to any mental gymastic to defend blm, even defending pedophiles :L",
"It's not perspective. Chasing after someone who tells you they're going to the police makes you the aggressor",
"Nice article @jamalamalama! Did you read it? I mean I get that you’re trying to appear intelligent, but your source (the NPR article) clearly contradicts both of the claims you made in your comment.…\n\nYour comment: “I get that you're making a joke, but the US is actually 32nd on the list of gun deaths per capita (Claim 1), and most of them are suicide (Claim 2).”\n\nClaim 1: “we are 32nd on gun deaths per capita”. This is true… but not something to brag about. We have 100 times more gun-deaths per capita than our peers in the UK. We rank worse (as in US has more gun-deaths per capita) than Somalia, all countries in the Middle East (except Iraq), etc. not\nSomething to pat ourselves on the back about. \n\nClaim 2: “and most of them are suicide” \nAgain, read the article. Every single graph states “All charts exclude deaths in armed conflict and from accidents or self-harm.” Suicide would fall under “self harm” they are not counted in the overall numbers and again, completely irrelevant to your argument. \n\nTurn your brain on",
"Not as important as you might think because gauge already said he didnt intentionally point his gun at Kyle, and gauge had more than enough time to shoot kyle if he had intended to. Furthermore, kyle had already pointed his gun at him so based on your logic gauge should have shot kyle.",
"According to you perhaps, but not with respect to the laws of the society in which we live... thus is why Rittenhouse will see an acquittal and you'll be crying in outrage due to your ignorance of the law.",
"\"A minor in possession of a firearm isnt a legal ground to attempt to disarm someone to take possession of a gun.\"\n\nReally!? Is that what they teaching in schools now a days? Just ignore it children, well let the gunman just tire himself out. If he's white the police will give him a ride home. \n\nHe was defending himself, or just scared... I can imagine that 'Good ol' boy' mentality and gun fetish only carried him there, then he realized he was in over his head, panicked and was content to blast his way out.\n\nFor his own good, he should go to prison, because if he remains in society, he'll never find peace, armed or not. He's a danger to society, and himself. He's not a champion of the 2nd amendment, and people who truly respect the right to bear arms can spot the difference.",
"Ok, I can see that being a possibility.",
"He was carrying that weapon illegally. He cannot win a self defense case that way",
"Rittenhouse pointed his gun first actually. Thats part of the testimony.",
">> Oh so two people tried to disarm a guy that seemed dangerous and, in the end, was?\n>\n>Shot because you can't go around playing vigilante.\n\nLike Kyle was??? Underage with an illegal gun and went with the intention to shoot people, but yeah, don't want people playing vigilante.....",
"Okay, I will apologize for assuming your politics and request an omission of that last sentence. Why is the rest of what I said (ie the actual meat of my argument) somehow not worthy of consideration?",
"None of these things are illegal. He lived 20 minutes from kenosha, closer than the people who died, and he worked there. He came to kenosha multiple times a week. It's his community",
"Have you considered that you are the humourless leftist that people give the okay symbol to mock?\n\nAlso that it seems to have hit its mark.\n\nIt is pretty funny actually.",
"I would not advice them to go to Europe with guns either but we did so maybe you should shut the fuck up.",
"It's not the \"dangerous places\" part that is the issue. It is the \"child with a gun\" part that is the issue.\n\nIf Rittenhouse had followed the law, and not brought the assault rifle, he would not have shot three people. Many people were at the dangerous place with legal firearms. Many of the people there were minors. None of them killed people.",
"What's racist about that? My image of veterans is like Andrew Howard Brannan so honestly no I don't care about them any more, they're fucking nuts and I don't feel safe around them. \n\nThe amount of people killed by police every year is pretty insignificant. And an insane amount of those killings are justified. If you wanted to protest gun ownership and try to get weapons off the street I'd join you. But blaming the people getting shot by stupid and crazy Americans isn't fair. I'd be pretty tightly wound too if I had to worry about some lunatic suddenly pulling out his crotch cannon and orphaning my kids because I had to give him a speeding ticket. I don't feel bad for Americans suffering the consequences of mass gun ownership. And I definitely don't feel bad that they blame cops rather than themselves.",
"I know, and generally it should (see: imprisoning people for nonviolent \"crimes\", disproportionate sentencing, etc), but heavily politicized and publicized cases have a higher chance of doing what the mob wants - especially if the jury gets leaked.\n\n\nI don't know what'll happen here, it sends the wrong message either way, no matter what happens, half the country will be pissed. Kinda sad.",
"They aren't reporting the details of the night, they are reporting his testimony on the stand, which includes his statement of personal trauma, and his claims of innocence. And his admission that he charged at Rittenhouse with his gun drawn after the point where he claimed he had his hands up. The *entire* testimony is represented.",
"Rittenhouse had just killed someone in unclear circumstances. If someone runs up on Rittenhouse, and he points his rifle at them, they are absolutely in their rights to defend themselves and shoot Rittenhouse.",
"Saying he \"took the streets with an assault rifle to find trouble and shoot protestors\" is an opinion and one loaded with buzz words that doesn't fit the actual facts.\n\nGrosskreutz admitted on the stand he had no knowledge of what happened to Rosenbaum which had actually happened about 10 minutes earlier. He most certainly didn't see it as you state.\n\nFurthermore, Grosskreutz initially didn't pull his gun and instead had his hands raised. Rittenhouse then lowered his gun. Grosskreutz testified he didn't get shot until he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz also testified he was concerned for Rittenhouse's safety as Huber bashed him in the head with the skate board.\n\nDid you listen to any testimony yesterday?",
"https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053632748/jan-6-committee-subpoenas-trump-officials-michael-flynn\n\nFirst news article on their site-\n\n>Notably, both Flynn and Kerik received Trump pardons in his final year in office. Kerik had been serving time for tax fraud among other charges before his February 2020 pardon, while Flynn was pardoned in December as he faced prosecution for charges of lying to federal investigators.\n\nand\n\n>The panel has been working at a rapid clip, now issuing more than two dozen subpoenas targeting another wave of former Trump officials and members of a right-wing group and another tied to other organizers of the rally that preceded the siege. Last month, the House approved a referral for a criminal contempt of Congress charge against Bannon for defying his subpoena.\n\nA complete aside by the author adding outside information that calls into question some info in the story and supports other. \n\n\nYou are WRONG, journalistic standards absolutely cover adding ancillary information or additional evidence/info that might inform the reader better on a topic.",
"The clip at CVS mentions protesters exactly 0 times.",
"If he's nailed on the firearms charges, then he can't win on self defense. You can't use an illegal firearm for self defense",
"> but their paraphrasing is incorrect as that is absolutely not what he testified\n\nBut it is. How is it not a paraphrase of what he said to the prosecution?\n\n> You people keep talking past each other because he said \"headline\" but he meant the social media post linking the article, and you're stubbornly ignoring what he clearly means despite mis-labeling it just so you can argue your narrative.\n\nAnd I answered both the headline and the content of the article itself, while also correcting that he didn't mean headline each time. It's not like I'm ignoring what he said completely because I knew what he meant, but I'm also teaching him about how news articles work which involve a headline which is the title of the article and the content of the article quotes important people involved in the story.",
"No one who attacked him as he was leaving to turn him self in to the police with his gun holsterd saw the confrontation with the original guy who tried to kill rittenhouse. All they knew Is someone was shouting \"thst guy shot someone\"",
"If you don't want people playing vigilante then why so sad over the three people who were shot?",
"I don't think it's disingenuous at all. Could you explain why you think it is? \n\nYou're just making more assumptions here. Define vigilantism and then explain to me how his actions there that night match that definition. \n\nDo some critical thinking, you're not in /r/politics.",
"It isn't even a \"possibility\" watch the videos of the whole event. It is clear he never fired at the dudes back.",
"Glad to help clear that up.",
">Do you hear yourself? Where did you get this from?\n\nHe showed up to a neighboring city with the purpose of enacting a fucking power fantasy by violently intimidating protestors that he politically disagreed with. Had he stayed home everyone would still be alive. No one else is to blame, other than maybe his parents and the media he (and from the sounds of it you and many others in the thread) consume.",
"Yes. Watch the video, they're mad at him for putting out dumpster fires they started to blow up a gas station. Or do you want to watch the videos of unarmed counter protestors being beat up by protestors nationwide for months?",
">That's a bit of a stretch. Rittenhouse was doing everything he could to disengage from the mob chasing him down\n\nAFTER already murdered someone",
"There is no argument here anyway. No one would of known he was underage by a year. Its not relevant to the argument of self defense.",
"Property can always be repaired. He murdered multiple people the two cant be compared. Funny how the evil rioters burning trash cans didn't kill anyone,, but the \"good guy\" killed 2 people. Lmfao he was just there to help? So he killed 2 people while trying to serve vigilante justice? Spin it whatever way you want, if killing 2 people makes you a good guy than I can see why this country is so fucked. The truth is if he would've stayed home, nobody would've died. He murdered 2 people. While the \"justice\" system is going to just pat him in the back, he's gonna walk around knowing that he killed 2 innocent people, rioting doesn't mean that you deserve to die. I definitely don't want to live in a country where a fucking 17 year old can just decide to go around pretending to be a soldier and kill people. And get away with it too. This whole case is fucked.",
"Watch the video, he trips and falls",
"Well I was just commenting upon the fact that kids don't have the emotional maturity to make decisions, when we send 17 and 18 year olds into battle to do such a thing. Not that he was right in doing so.",
"Ummm because people died. I want gun control and safe streets.",
"> Simply put, it takes 2 assholes refusing to back down, to escalate an entirely avoidable situation to a critical point, resulting in tragedy\n\nThis succinctly describes this whole fucking fiasco.",
"Eh I'm not here to convince you otherwise, but by no means is Kyle a victim.",
"Kyle didn't instigate anything as video and witnesses show. Also, the power is in your hands. Just don't attack them if they show up to a protest with a rifle and you'll be fine.",
"Yeah, these guys are stretching.\n\nThe article and headline are reporting what was said. Yeah, it looks biased if you take it in a vacuum because they are currently reporting on the prosecution's case.\n\nThey gave as much reporting on McGinnis' and Lackowski's testimonies here: [https://www.npr.org/2021/11/05/1053018241/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-first-week-what-happened](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/05/1053018241/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-first-week-what-happened)\n\nIf you apply the same set of reasoning to that article, they are biased to the defense.\n\nNPR is among the driest, most straight forward reporting being done on the trial. If this is biased to you, you may want to assess your own viewpoint.\n\nEdit: ...and of course here 2 days later for Rittenhouse's testimony: [https://www.npr.org/2021/11/10/1054313132/kyle-rittenhouse-testimony-kenosha](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/10/1054313132/kyle-rittenhouse-testimony-kenosha)\n\nIt irks me a bit how extremists in this country continually lump the last few bastions of objective journalism in with their media bias crusade. NPR and AP are solid and still working hard at telling the truth.",
"And the clause I quoted at you comes from the law that handles underage gun possession.\n\nThat clause state that law only applies if this clause is broken. Part of that would be if the weapon was a SBR or an SBS.\n\nWhich Kyle was not carrying. Therefore Kyle did not break the law. Though the earlier clauses said he did.\n\nUnconstitutional vague.",
"I advise you go to law school, buddy. I'm not giving you a free legal education on Reddit, especially when your contention is that political prosecution is legal. You have a LOT of foundation to learn if that's your actual belief; and if it isn't, you're a bad faith actor.",
"Active shooter implies that they're actively shooting people for no reason indescriminantly.\n\n\nWe know that did not happen. Kyle was attacked, on camera. And shot ONLY the people attacking him. \n\nIf he was a mas shooter or an active shooter, why would he not have emptied his entire 30rd magazine into the crowd that was chasing him? \n\n\nYou cannot chase and attack someone then say \"I feared for my life\" that's not how it works. And is a direct violation of self defense laws in Wisconsin.",
"You don't have legal protection to actively chase after someone that you think may have committed a crime. Even if it's murder. You only have legal protection to defend your own life or that of another if it is in immediate danger. Someone running away is not an immediate danger.",
"The rioters were there, many from across state lines, to burn and loot businesses that weren't theirs, and escalated a situation that resulted in people dying because a rapist armed with a knife was shot while in the act of kidnapping his rape victims children.",
"Only if you sign a legal document clarifying the statement is sworn, and only if it's a written record (such as by a court reporter). Otherwise nope\n\nBut in that case lying to a garbage man is also illegal so them being a cop is irrelevant.",
"Lol good thing he did neither of those things lmao. Also not illegal to take a gun across state lines btw\n\nAnd that doesn't take away from self defense rights",
"Active shooter implies that they're actively shooting people for no reason indescriminantly.\n\n\nWe know that did not happen. Kyle was attacked, on camera. And shot ONLY the people attacking him. \n\nIf he was a mas shooter or an active shooter, why would he not have emptied his entire 30rd magazine into the crowd that was chasing him? \n\n\nYou cannot chase and attack someone then say \"I feared for my life\" that's not how it works. And is a direct violation of self defense laws in Wisconsin.",
"Ah I see, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!",
"I've never met a Gage who wasn't a complete tool.",
"Ownership isn't a right in every other country focusing on the US and see how abysmal gun control is",
"Neither do I my dude. My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek and the downvote brigade hit me as well. Totally understand me being downvoted by a bunch of right wing fuck tards but your comment is about as neutral as you can get.",
"After being released from the mental hospital, he went back to his girlfriends tent. He could have stayed there, like 5 miles away from where the riots where. \n\nSo that's where he could have stayed. Anywhere but the riot is a possibility. \n\nYou should watch the trial.",
"This is mostly idiots on Reddit/Twitter making a non-legal argument. Rittenhouse was illegally armed and the situation he was in didn't constitute one (in WI) where deadly force was justified.",
"They've been doing that to NPR and trying to cut NPR's Federal funding for far longer than a single decade, and for long, long before Trump even considered office. NPR is a popular punching bag for the right because it's partially funded by a federal endowment (a much smaller endowment now; it's majority funded by public donations now, since the right managed to cut the bulk of public radio spending).\n\nNPR as a news outlet is almost always about what's going on at the spot of an incident, not being in a news room, and the result is that you can hear people suffering when people are suffering. That tends to lend itself to greater empathy for whoever might be suffering; empathy is the general driver of things like charity and public aid, and those actions are generally considered left-leaning. So, tax-funded and encouraging taxpayer-funded social programs, so therefor definitely left-biased, is the thinking.",
"He stayed over in Kenosha without leaving, correct, but they absolutely went where they went by responding to a militia call and to confront anyone that came to where they were. They specifically geared up extra for it that afternoon and planned to stay out past curfew (I don't agree with curfews either but it is what it is).\n\nThey claim the business owners asked for help but the business owners deny it. Who knows what's what.\n\nFrankly, I blame the 17 year old much less than the other adults he was with that didn't just tell him to go home. Kids are stupid. His experience was basically his personal interest in law enforcement, basic first aid from life guarding, and high school...",
"Because rittenhouse was carrying it openly? Because as a minor he chose to go to the “riot” and act. \n\nIf Grosskuertz was brandishing his gun at random people then sure. He pulled it out after watching KR murder two people, but to be honest he shouldn’t have fuckin had a gun there either \n\nAmericans and their obsession with guns always fucks shit up",
"Did anyone who attacked him know he was in illegal possession?\n\nNo.",
"Mate, I've also seen maga people shooting protesters and then the police let them walk away. \n\nYou REALLY gonna push this idea that the left is dangerous and the right isnt?\n\nAfter Charlottesville? The maga bomber? After protesters are run over LEGALLY now? After Trump supporters took guns to overthrow the government and kill Mike pence and our congress? \n\nYou REALLY gonna keep pushing that tired line? \n\n\"But BLM antifa!\" \n\nAnyone guilty of crimes can go to jail. Gtfo",
"No one said it was illegal, I'm arguing morals, not laws.",
"You cannot actually clearly see when Rosenbaum was shot. Not in the FBI video nor in the on the ground videos.",
"I agree 100%",
">If someone runs up on Rittenhouse\n\nLet's stop right there.\n\nWhy are you \"running up on Rittenhouse\" who is armed and clearly fleeing a mob, back turned, in the direction of the police?\n\nYou are the agressor in that situation, not Rittenhouse.",
"I don't want to leave anything out. I'm trying to determine what happened first. Was the Rosenbaum incident first? The bit I quoted above says otherwise.",
"It seems that the fact that he's 17, not 18 or 16, made it legal for him to carry this particular firearm.",
"Yeah that's kinda my point mate",
"Rosenbaum, sorry they both have long names that start with and R",
"I agree he shouldn’t have been there, but that argument can be made of all of them",
"I guess it's too much to hope for a reasoned discussion here.",
"I'm confused on the timeline here. Didn't Rittenhouse shoot someone, then a bunch of people chased him? Including the witness here? Or is this the first guy that Rittenhouse shot?\n\nFrom what I understand, this witness is someone who chased Rittenhouse after he shot someone. So in this specific instance Rittenhouse might have been acting in self defense, but he is still guilty of shooting the first guy.",
"I wasnt being literal. The media controls a great deal of public opinion and wields that power based on the standards and agendas of those who run the media companies.",
"That certainly could be true.",
"Kyle wasn't and has not been proven to be a criminal\n \n\nSo if I chase you, scream that you stabbed someone. Everyone who hears that can how attack you and murder you without cause? \n\n\nYou're literally trying to justify mob rule and violence. Make it make sense. Please. I beg of you",
"Who literally just shot and killed someone. Hindsight is 20/20 and having all the advance knowledge of looking back at it gives you much more information about what happened than the people involved.\n\nIt is a matter of perspective of the people involved. If all they know is this person has a gun and he just shot and killed someone and that if he's not stopped he may shoot and kill someone else (which he did) then that perspective of the people he's shooting at plays a really big role to whether or not they feel threatened and whether or not they were acting in self defense.\n\nSo now we have 1 person acting in self defense killing someone else acting in self defense. Testimony itself says they were trying to get the gun away from him. That's the act of a person trying to prevent a shooter from shooting someone else.",
"It's less the open carry and more the fact that he had just killed someone under unclear circumstances.",
"He dident own it",
"And it appears he contradicted that on cross. Hence ... facepalm.",
">The US military/police budget is irrelevant to this kid’s right to defend himself.\n\nIt is entirely relevant as to why Kyle was there, why is a kid roaming the streets, armed, because they feel the need to police the streets?\n\nThat's not how developed, first world, countries operate. Unless of course you think a 17 year old roaming the streets in place of a police force or military is absolutely normal behaviour in the developed world. Once again, this is why the US is a joke.\n\nA right to defend oneself when you've travelled to walk round a protest and riot with a gun. What a crazy country the US is.",
">It's strange you turn to this thread for evidence in a murder trial\n\nNot the whole thread. The *video* in the thread. You know, the one that's actually *from* the murder trial in question?",
"Arguing morals, not laws. I'm not suggesting the law says he was in the wrong.",
"I don't condone illegal violence but the streets are safer now that these people are gone. The first guy was a convicted child rapist, second guy convicted of domestic violence.",
"Do you know there's a difference between law and morality?",
"So I can walk into your neighborhood openly carrying an AR15 and if anyone approaches me they are an aggressor. \n\nGood story.",
"Could you explain how that would work? Not trying to dispute just genuine curiosity, how would it only be legal for one year?",
"Not precisely the timeline but at the end of the day it appears to have been self defense in all three shootings by Rittenhouse. \n1) guy just released from the hospital throws stuff at and chases Rittenhouse\n2) a separate person shoots into the air\n3) at the same time Rittenhouse reacts and shoots the guy chasing him.\n4) Rittenhouse runs from the scene. I think this was his key mistake. Running away from a shooting and acting crazy makes you look suspicious. And if it truly was self defense then the threat was gone and you can apply aid\n5) skateboard dude chases after Rittenhouse thinking that he was fleeing or finding other targets (both reasonable considering the actions and chaos)\n6) skateboard guy catches Rittenhouse after he trips and attempts to disarm Rittenhouse \n7) Rittenhouse shoots while getting hit with a skateboard\n8) medic dude draws his weapon and advances on Rittenhouse \n9) medic dude is shot\n10) Rittenhouse walks past the police without giving a statement and acts innocent\n\nOverall, this is a complete tragedy. And it seems to have been a set of dominoes that fell and ended in deaths.",
"So you have no evidence, excellent.\n\nWeird that your response is “go to law school” when the people actively prosecuting this case and the other stuff you weakly mentioned above have *also* taken your advice but you somehow think they are doing something illegal.\n\nAs I said, you don’t actually want law and order. You don’t even know what the law *is.* You think anything you don’t like is unlawful, but that’s anarchism you muppet.",
"Youre a well spring of empathy",
"Good thing Kyle acted in self defence then",
"or lucky. Look, I get it, you love Rittenhouse, you might even BE Rittenhouse, or someone he knows. You appear to have quite a bit of admiration for him in any event. I'm getting tired of this conversation going in circles. \n\n\nFeel free to have the last word and you can even let yourself think you've won.",
"Again, I just don't see how. I would argue that Grosskreutz has more of an argument for self defense. He was held at gun point and thought he had an opening to end the confrontation while not having to kill the kid (which was something else he said during examination). How does this even come close to being convincing?",
"> evidence of Rosenbaum threatening people, committing arson, yelling racial slurs, chasing someone and attempting the grab their gun\n\nThat is the only part that is relevant to me. There is no way Kyle would have known Rosenbaum was a pedophile, or bipolar, or anything else about his character. In the moment, the only thing that mattered were the words and actions that cost him his life.",
"I mean you already have your mind made up looking at your post",
"I was just putting that out there. He didn't take it across state lines.",
"And then after that \"ok interaction\" he chased Rittenhouse for 2 blocks with his gun drawn, shouting \"STOP HIM!\" and then aimed that gun at Rittenhouse.",
">Have you considered that you are the humourless leftist that people give the okay symbol to mock?\n\nYea totally me, I bothered to understand where it came from and the nuance behind it so I could be outraged by it. \n\nHave you considered that you're completely dense and fail to understand how symbols can be used to express things with alternative meanings. \"The numbers 1, 4, 8 and 8 are totally just numbers you libtards!\", \"If SS is racist then so is the entire alphabet!\"",
"> How is it not a paraphrase of what he said to the prosecution?\n\nHe literally did not have his arms raised when he was shot, he was pointing his gun at Rittenhouse when he was shot <edit>and that's what he testified to</edit>. Watch the video <edit>of the testimony</edit>. It's not ambiguous. \n\n> I answered both the headline and the content of the article itself\n\nAnd ignored what he clearly meant if you spent 2 seconds using your eyes to see it was the content of the post - not the article or headline - that he was objecting to.\n\n>It's not like I'm ignoring what he said completely because I knew what he meant\n\nYes you are, even when it's blatantly pointed out to you.",
"Oh then you’re fine, unfortunately we can’t send people to jail based on morals though. Best case scenario is this incident sparks future legislation to prevent stuff like this from happening",
"Also, this is gonna blow your mind, but an insane amount *aren't* justified. Especially if you don't believe in the death penalty. You're allowing cops to execute people you wouldn't allow the state to, don't you see how that's worse?",
"And if it turns out that the person you murdered was not the shooter, you just got a murder charge. Congrats",
"If there's twenty people with guns and they all start shooting in defense because of another shooter... That's why oh here's a police officer in uniform, he's probably a good guy and that stops the shooting party. \n\nKyle shoots two other people and this guy didn't know what the fuck was going on (presuming innocence of doubt) he raised his gun and Kyle shot him feeling threatened. He just shot at other people. Why wouldn't you raise your gun to say back the fuck off? That's the loop. Kyle felt threatened, he raised a gun and shot someone, other person who as far as I know has no connection to the other person who was shot, was like fuck need to defend myself pulls out his weapon to unknown shooter. \n\nIt's a loop.\n\nThis guy wasn't the first person Kyle Shot at, Kyle felt threatened, this guy felt threatened and pointed guns trying to protect themselves.",
"Yes the Rosenbaum incident was first and Kyle was fleeing.\n\nThen the second instance which I was detailing occurred",
"Is that all they did? They simply approached him?",
"I mean if militias are what is needed to stop rioters from destroying entire community's then we'll...",
"Okay cool. Still not legal for him to have a gun borrowing it or not. \n\nThat’s awful reasoning. Of i “lend” a kid a gun it’s still illegal. \n\nThe only provisions are if he was on land owned by his family or the gun owner. Which he was not.",
"No, he says Rittenhouse leveled the weapon at him and then he put his hands up. Then he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse and was shot. \n\nEither way, its not a clear cut situation of self defense and if Grosskeutz would have shot Rittenhouse to death then he'd find himself in a defensible position legally as well.",
"> Running away from a shooting\n\nStaying in place after shooting someone where there aren't any visible cops or other people to protect you is asking to get lynched.",
"> I would argue that Grosskreutz has more of an argument for self defense. \n\nI wouldn't say self-defense, but you could make a legal argument for legal use of his weapon.",
"yes. its that simple. I'll accept whatever a jury of his peers gives him. one way or the other.\n\ndefensive shootings are fucking complicated as fuck, who has defensive posture can change 10 times a second. so seeing all these armchair wisconsin law experts is frustrating and stupid. if it were open and shut, they wouldnt have a trial, but its complex, and we want to make sure we get the ruling right. so here we are.\n\nBut I think the moral question is simple. He did a wrong and bad and dumb thing... and now 2 people are dead who might otherwise be alive. and if he were my kid, I'd be ashamed of him, whether he walks or not.",
"Oh shoot, that destroys my argument that attorneys don't do anything illegal. \n\nWait,I didn't say that. You're just a bad faith cunt.",
"He only killed the second and third person because they tried to kill him as he was retreating.\nTheir perspective is meaningless in the face of reality. Reality is Kyle acted in self defence, then retreated and was re-engaged. Not his fault",
"Explain",
"It's funny that you needed to quote specific parts and still don't understand how you're quibbling wording and saying there is no reasonable doubt that someone should go to prison over it.\n\nTelling me to read when you didn't read what I wrote is icing though.",
"Before Rittenhouse pointed his weapon, yes.",
"I'm not going to encourage people to bark up the wrong tree. Saving like 50 lives a year isn't my idea of a countrywide issue.",
"And thank god, Glenn actually had topics, whereas Terry's platform was trump supports Glenn and we dont like trump",
"Lol no. It was in kenosha with his friend",
"Running away from the mob and towards the police is plenty of indication you are trying to stop.",
"I'm with you. Kyle Rittenhouse was the active shooter. So he's claiming self-defense while shooting Gaige because Gaige was drawing a gun on him. Would Rittenhouse be able to claim self-defense if a police officer was pulling a gun on him as well? I mean, after shooting a few people, there is a good chance that police officer would have shot him as he was an active shooter... so wouldn't shooting the police officer first be in Rittenhouse's best interest of self-defense?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIt's a stupid hypothetical, but in this case nothing makes sense because the reality is Kyle Rittenhouse shouldn't have had his mom drive him to a riot with a loaded gun. None of this happens if Kyle Rittenhouse doesn't bring a gun to a riot and just stays home. He wasn't supposed to be there. He had no business being there. He showed up with a gun, got scared and shot people. Absolutely unnecessary.",
"> If there's twenty people with guns and they all start shooting in defense because of another shooter... \n\nI'm not sure what you mean here. You can't just shoot someone because you think they're a shooter. That's not self defence.\n\n> Kyle shoots two other people and this guy didn't know what the fuck was going on \n\nHe knew. He saw what happened. There is no loop.",
"You can clearly see the rosenbaum shooting in this video at this time, and can clearly see the 4 shots were in very short succession. No time for Rosenbaum to turn away while lunging:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/VpTW2AJE9MQ?t=1076",
"> his GF ask him to leave\n\nNot according to her testimony she didn't. \n\n>he has no right to his GF house unless invited in as a guest\n\nShe did invite him. She didn't ask him to leave. She also doesn't have a house, she's homeless as well. She has a tent, and she was sleeping outside a motel. Joseph stayed with her for a couple hours before leaving. \n\nWatch the trial. You don't know what you're talking about.",
"Oh? Perhaps you need to watch the video evidence again. You must not have heard all the threats and hollerings of beat his ass while they chased him and and tried to jump him the moment he fell.",
"Rosenbaum attacked Kyle because Kyle put out a flaming trashcan that Rosenbaum was pushing towards a gas station. That doesn't exactly sound like protesting to me.",
"If you believe a mass shooter is afoot than you should be running away not trying to play like ranger pointing your gun at anyone that you baselessly assume is the mass shooter.\n\n>You don't know what I'm doing there\n\nThis is just a blatant lie. There's video footage, taken by Gaige no less, where Kyle tells Gaige that he's going to the police. The police are within eyesight and Kyle is actively running towards them.",
"Watch the video, he falls seconds after being sucker punched in the back of the head.",
"Didn't say we can. Our laws should reflect our morals though.",
"Actually, rittenhouse would be dead. Rssunbaum would have killed him.",
"Okay. Maybe I'm wrong there, and that's not biased. I did not watch the entire testimony, so maybe that is how the testimony played out. However, they do not ever say in the article. that Grosskreutz pointed a gun at Rittenhouse. To me, that is the most important single bit of information. If they reported the entire testimony, why leave that out?",
"I just don't understand what makes you think that his level of control and precision was easy for someone in his position? What are you basing this on?",
"Mate, you said he should be given life. That's a legal statement, and an extreme one at that. Why do you think so many people replied to that comment?",
"\"He wasn't there to hurt people\" sure, its not like he killed 2 people with the rifle he brought to a riot. Definitely went to a riot with a rifle with the intentions of not shooting someone with the rifle he brought to a riot. He went somewhere with a gun, in order to stop criminals from destroying property. Sounds like a vigilante to me. His \"help\" ended peoples lives.",
">act as if intimidation and murder is just a normal part of political discourse.\n\nIt certainly shouldn't be. Which is why I think it's important that people stand up for themselves when others come and try to destroy their livelihoods and attack them personally. Glad we're in agreement that people shouldn't allow crazy people to riot, loot, commit arson, and attack innocent people in the street.",
"So it was too much to hope; you don't seem to understand how discussion works. \n \nYou can't have a discussion without coming into it with a position, or at least forming one to start from. This is my current position. Earlier when I watched the video, it was a different position. Then I read a bit and it turns out, my initial position was not that convincing to me anymore, so I changed. You are intended to push back against what I said to try to convince me otherwise. See how that can work?",
"Yourr adorable. I wish 50 lives a year was the scope of it. But its ok, you're clearly from an alternate reality with very different facts. So its time to go home back to your bubble. Lest someone else trigger you with their compassion",
"The fact he didn't shoot when Gauge surrendered shows that he didn't consider Guage a threat to his life at that moment, nothing more. Gauge then goes to aim at Kyle, this new information makes Gauge a deadly threat so Kyle shoots. \n\nHad Kyle shot when Gauge was feigning surrender his claim that he felt Gauge posed an imminent threat would hold much less weight. The restraint shown illustrates Kyle's frame of mind much more than if we didn't have the additional information.",
"The gun wasn't illegal, though it may be argued his carrying it at 17 was (misdemeanor). He didn't carry it across state lines either. But the Bye-ceps guys gun was illegal, he was a convicted felon who legally could not carry.",
"Lol. Grosskeurtz’s gun was illegal. He did brandish it and point it at rittenhouse. Rittenhouse didn’t brandish. Open carrying isn’t brandishing. And he killed two people, in self defense. Not murder them. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Stay in your lane",
"And the left has went nuts wanting him imprisoned for murder, because they disagree with him politically.",
"Not relevant to what you said and you're trying to strawman. Obviously he was not working, I never stated that. \n\nYou implied that it was not his community and that crossing state lines was something unusual and suspicious. Do you understand that plenty of people regularly travel between multiple towns and may see these as all being their community, even across state lines?\n\nSome will argue that his gun was illegal, some will argue it wasn't, I don't really care as that doesn't seem to matter to whether it was self defense. State v. Mercer also showed that justification may be somewhat successfully argued to even let a felon use a firearm in self-defense.",
"Imagine being you.\n\nSitting in a dark dank corner clutching repeatedly at a raggedy blanket draped over yours shoulders, neurotically tugging at its edges to try and cover yourself completely, rocking back and forth mumbling to yourself:\n\n\"He's a murderer. He's a murderer. He's a murderer. I'm sure of it. He's a murderer.\"",
"In that situation , it could easily be misunderstood as fleeing the scene or going in pursuit of others. Once he neutralized the original threat he could have disarmed and helped out, though he probably was very freaked out and saw everyone running to help the person shot as a threat.",
"You're making up arguments. You don't get to murder anybody. It about being able to non lethally apprehend people who could hurt you or those around you. Which according to the people in this subreddit is only when those people start shooting you.",
"To a degree. But the video evidence is on his side on this one as he was interviewed earlier in the night stating he was there to “protect and help”. He wasn’t lying in wait, he was actively attempting to get away from the people he shot. \n\nThe prosecution made a major misstep with a 1st degree charge. I honestly don’t believe any murder charge would stick but 1st sure as hell won’t.",
"You are correct. Someone in the crowd fired a pistol into the air a second or two before Rittenhouse stopped running and turned around.\n\nNo one has had a good theory on why that person fired into the air. Maybe a warning shot to scare Rittenhouse into running, or maybe it was a shot meant to escalate the situation, as did happen.",
"No doubt.\n\nThese undercurrents have been around for a long time. My point is the last 10 years they have been out in the open and their signals have been amplified more than ever. Social media is a whole new battleground for this smear campaign. NPR has weathered the storm thus far and thus is a prominent target here on reddit and on other platforms.",
"Link?",
"What is the difference?",
"> He literally did not have his arms raised when he was shot, he was pointing his gun at Rittenhouse when he was shot\n\nHe testified to both, and that makes him an unreliable witness.\n\n> And ignored what he clearly meant \n\nI did not, I answered the content of the article in multiple comments, I even said \"They are quoting his testimony. This is normal, they can't change his testimony.\" If I was only acknowledging the headline and ignoring it I wouldn't have said that.",
"It's always tricky who should be where and the stories are muddled.\n\nPeople have a right to protests but obviously things were WAY out of hand here. So then you start the ping pong of escalation between protestors, rioters, police, militia, etc.\n\nI don't think I can honestly say I've heard any story untainted enough to know for sure but I'd say there's really just a shitload of assholes... to be pedantic. We have overly militarized police, openly racist right wing militias, anarchists looking to burn shit, extreme leftist looking to \"equalize\" society, and sadly it only takes a very small group of any of the above to fuck up even the most legitimate of protests; even for a movement as big as racial equality.\n\nI can tell you that riots like this don't happen in happy societies though. That doesn't mean they can just be let run wild but they do require more collective introspection than many give them.",
"Yes, and I get that. The more it develops the more it seems like it will end up a Zimmerman situation where the killer was clearly morally responsible for the deaths due to their bad decision-making but legally there is enough grey area for them to walk for self-defence.",
"I don't have any say over what the state does or doesn't do. And I also don't judge people whose job is to deal with the armed shit stains we call American citizens. I think excessive force is excuseable when factoring in the presence of concealable handguns. Most unjustified shootings involve a gun or what the officers assumed to be one. Sometimes the officer has less than a second to process if the person tossed away their gun or is about to raise it at them. And unfortunately they're wrong sometimes. \n\nIf Americans gave up their handguns, this wouldn't be a problem.",
"He lives 20 minutes away, works in kenosha and is there multiple times a week. The people who were shot came from further away and had no ties to kenosha. So your argument only helps Kyle",
"One where he thought his life is in danger and he had to do something, and the other is heroic where you put your life in danger by putting yourself in a situation.",
"Twist it however you want, you know what I'm saying. Committing violent acts against protestors you disagree with is not going to solve any problems, but it will escalate them. You're contributing to the decline of the USA.",
"Wisconsin has a law that allows you to open carry. Granted in this case his firearm was obtained illegally (which he should get appropriate charges for), but do you think anyone has the right to chase down and assault anyone who is open carrying? Because by your logic they are an obvious threat just because they are open carrying. Rittenhouse was open carrying and running away from Rosenbaum, skateboard guy, and Grosskreutz before he fired at any of them. I think it's pretty claim self-defense under the current law for each situation.",
"He showed up to protect businesses and provide medical care. Everything else is just guesswork and conjecture, which is going to be filled with bias",
"50 to 100 sorry",
"Link?",
"Actually though, there is. Because that gets to the mentality behind showing up to a protest with a gun. Extremely childish. And just like a teen to try and get away with looking older to blend in.... like when they try to sneak into bars. When they get busted, there are consequences.\n\nOh sympathizers, can't call it a protest. Has to be a riot and arson... in memory of Jacob Blake. Every protestor was just a rioter, looter, minority, or anything less than perfectly straight and white. Thusly they were all subject to being murdered by a minor who brought his guns to town..... \n\nSomebody shoulda listened to more Johnny Cash. \"Don't take your guns to town son, leave your guns at home,\".",
"Shit, I missed that. He really did look at a photo of himself clearly pointing his gun towards Kyle's head and said \"No\".",
"People literally created an entire false reality around something we have video evidence of.\n\nOnline politics is totally fucked forever.",
"Places have gun laws because of the need for gun laws. \n\n\nConsider that places with \"Beware of Sharks\" signs have more shark attack incidents than places with the least amount of \"Beware of Sharks\" signs. \n\n\nGun laws aren't causing gun violence any more than shark awareness signs are causing shark attacks. \n\n\nGuns are everywhere in America, it doesn't matter how strict the laws are locally. Other countries with strict gun laws have far, far less gun violence. Gun laws make a difference. \n\n\nIf Rittenhouse had followed gun laws, he wouldn't have shot those people. Nobody would have tried to grab his imaginary gun. Grosskreutz would not have chased down what he thought was an active shooter and pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz didn't point his gun at other people with guns. This entire situation was escalated and created by Kyle breaking the law.",
"It shouldn’t as there was many people there openly carrying a firearm. Rosenbaum made it his personal mission to attack this idiot after he put out a dumpster fire. As far as I am concerned rosenbaum is responsible for all of this. Plus he’s a child molesting POS that deserved more than what he got.",
"LOL. Fuck right off you twat. You don't give a shit about facts, you're selling a narrative that supports your worldview of white oppression by the liberal cabal or some shit. FFS don't pretend like you even know what nuance is.",
">provide medical care.\n\nWith bullets? Thanks for the laugh, this thread has been depressing, but now it's just fucking hilarious.",
"He testified that he thought his life was in danger.",
"> murdering someone for political reasons?\n\n• Rosenbaum appeared to \"ambush\" Kyle Rittenhouse (Kenosha PD Detective Martin Howard). • Rosenbaum was chasing Rittenhouse and grabbing for his rifle (Richie McGinniss) • Rosenbaum was \"hyperaggresive\", constantly having to be physically restrained, and threatened to kill Rittenhouse if he caught him alone (Ryan Balch) • A USMC Rifleman who admitted that he'd consider Rosenbaum a deadly threat if Rosenbaum's actions were directed at him (Jason Lackowski) • Huber had struck Rittenhouse in the head with his skateboard, was worried about possible head trauma, and Rittenhouse did not fire at him until he had pointed his own gun at Rittenhouse and advanced on him (Gaige Grosskreutz).\n\nAgain, these are all Prosecution witnesses.",
"I don't know. Given his actions the most reasonable assumption was that it was for self defence. There's no evidence to suggest that he used it in any other manner.\n\nOf course, bringing it even for self defence was extremely reckless and contributed directly to the deaths, even though they were in self defence. He should bear the full brunt of the law for bringing an illegal gun into the equation.",
"Not a pervert, a convicted child rapist. He raped multiple children at least 11 times.\n\nKyle practiced excellent gun control. He only shot people who were attacking him, he displayed trigger discipline, he had exceptional aim, and cleared a jam while lying prone and under attack from multiple assailants before disarming a man trying to execute him for defending himself. Nothing of value was lost.",
"You do have a say, your nihilism is what keeps people like that in power. I agree guns are the issue. But I'm not going to throw my hands up in the air because I'm not getting my dream solution. I want less people to be murdered. Part of that is police accountability. \n\nDelivery driving is more dangerous than being a cop. The most dangerous part about being a cop is the traffic stops. You want to talk about a small fuckin sample size, cops killed on the job by guns is a tiny fuckin group. And the guys who do it are *always* murdered by cop.",
"Why are you trying to make this some kind of political debate?",
"Whatever you say, fascist.",
"So it varies a lot by state. But just to use your example, someone pointing a gun at you is absolutely grounds to use lethal force to defend yourself. Generally “fear for one’s life” is a common applied standard. Someone could be running at me with no weapons and screaming that they’re gonna kill me. If there’s actual footage of that, self defense case will be a slam dunk.",
"The only reason people think it was murder is because the witness who got shot lied about the circumstances of himself getting shot. Had that guy told the cops the truth from the outset, that charge wouldn't even be on the table.",
"So then his only crime is having an illegal firearm then. He still has every right to use a firearm (even if obtained illlgally) to defend himself. These are two separate matters and people are conflating these to support thier personal biases.",
"When someone with a knife backs away, the threat is over...\n\nWhen someone with a semi-automatic rifle backs away, is the threat over or are they simply moving to a range better to kill you at? \n\nAn active shooter is not 'neutralized' if you let him walk away... the threat of an active shooter is only neutralized by taking him down one way or the other, and Rittenhouse's victims had every reason to believe he was an active shooter, hell, particularly *after he had already shot someone*.\n\nThe realities of Rittenhouse's weapon and intent are being ignored in your example.",
"Why is he a piece of shit",
"You said I should go to law school in order to know how the law works. I pointed out that the people you’re accusing (with no evidence or justification) of doing something illegal have gone through far more law school that you or I, and therefore based on *your own advice* they are the authority on what’s legal and what isn’t. Unless of course you want to retract your suggestion about going to law school and try a new argument.\n\nI also pointed out that you refused to provide even a single example of an illegal action. The only reasoning I can come up with for why someone with such an instantaneous and strongly held believe wouldn’t explain the source of the beliefs is because you *don’t have one.* You’re welcome to try again and actually give an answer this time, but the more you insist you don’t need to the less credible you look. If you’ve got a serious claim, such as saying something illegal has been done by the prosecutors here, then it’s on you to provide evidence for that claim.\n\nYou’ve called me a bad faith actor twice now, but all I’m doing is asking for your evidence and all you are doing is refusing to provide it. I think it’s clear to everyone which one of us is the bad faith “cunt” here.",
"Youre not sorry. Bring sorry requires empathy. Something you've shown you lack",
"narrative DESTROYED lol ur a loser",
"Because they didn't include the entire testimony in this article. If you want the entire testimony, you can find it. If someone charging at you with a gun in one hand, wherever it is pointed, isn't enough to suggest that you might fire to defend yourself, then the issue isn't with the article.",
"He is currently on trial for murder. Under the law, it will likely be found that he did not infact murder anyone as he was acting in self defense. Later, they likely will try and convict him of other weapons charges. In this case though, the crimes listed are the only things that he can be found guilty or innocent of.",
"Agreed. There’s a root cause to all of this that has to snuffed out, otherwise you’re just treating symptoms of a larger issue. I take the same approach to gun violence. The true issue is the “violence” part of that, not necessarily the guns. If the guns were the cause of violence then there wouldn’t be any in heavily gun restricted countries.",
"Arbitrary lines don't change that it's his community",
"He killed a person in self defense, then he killed more people who were defending themselves.\n\nThe very fact this can be argued shows there is a difference of perspective which proves my point its a matter of perspective.",
"I guess that’s where our disconnect is. He did a dumb thing by going to the protest with an AR, but nothing before or after that was wrong or bad in my opinion. He put himself in a tough situation, but his actions from there forward were completely reasonable to me. I dont have kids but i never would have let my kid in that situation, but again he is a kid, his decision to go wasnt “bad” or “wrong”, just reckless and short-sighted",
"ok, last time. I didn't say it was \"easy\". I said he was lucky. Being at point blank range helped a lot. With Grosskreutz, he didn't even hit center mass and I highly doubt Rittenhouse was aiming for the bicep. \n\n\nNow go and resume your hero worship of Rittenhouse somewhere else.",
"Maybe, maybe not. That's not a conclusion that can be drawn from whether or not his use of deadly force in this incident was justified.",
"I think as long as he gets a sentence that's more than a slap on the wrist it's fine. He killed people, that's a problem, but he's also a kid that was manipulated by adults into doing it. He should have never been there in the first place. Death feels too harsh for that.\n\nOn the other hand, if they let him off completely or something, that's a big problem. In Portland last year a man shot a guy in what may have been self defence, but he never got a day in court because instead of arresting him the police (dressed almost identically to our local Proud Boys) killed him a few days later. I'm worried about the message \"if you're left wing, we kill you; if your right wing, murder is fine\".",
"Yep, and that's reasonable but he inserted himself in that situation.",
"They expected him to tell the same story in court that he had told the cops. I seriously doubt the prosecutor believed that story to be a lie.",
"Your analogy falls apart because Kyle didn’t “break in” or become the aggressor at any point. The first shooting was in response to being chased by an aggressor who was yelling how he was going to kill Kyle. Even then, Kyle only fired once the man actually put hands on him",
">is presence with that gun was already breaking the law. \n\nAs a misdemenor. And there is a case that his possession of a gun wasnt illegal. Though thats a seperate issue. \n\nAt the point of his life being threatened, should a person just drop their gun becuasr its illegal and NOT defend themself?",
"Except the facts are presented right here in this video and you’re trying to twist them to serve your political agenda. I’m not selling any narrative, you’re literally making shit up. Get fucked clown.",
"https://youtube.com/watch?v=VpTW2AJE9MQ&t=19m45s",
"I don't think you're allowed to run up and kill someone who is running away just because other people told you that that person is an active shooter. \n\nMight have to double check that one though /s.",
"That implies they don't know what they're doing is illegal. I made no such contention. So yes, going back to what I originally said, you're either stupid or pretending to be so. \n\nAnd no, they haven't gone through more than I have. So you assume everyone is as ignorant as you?",
"Grosskreutz drew his gun before Rittenhouse shot Huber. It was covered during the cross examination.\n\nRittenhouse told Grosskreutz he was going to the police after shooting Rosenbaum. It is clear on Grosskreutz's video. Grosskreutz testified that he misheard Rittenhouse.\n\nGrosskreutz was not on the defensive.",
"\"active shooter\" requires someone to be actively. Shooting or brandishing and threatening people with a gun.\n\nHe was doing none of these things and the law addresses. This situation clearly.\n\nThe crowd, had every way of knowing he was not an active shooter, and did not attack him because they believed he was, they attacked him in an act of sensless mob justice because they heard someone shouting \"he shot someone\"",
"Your perspective is wrong tho. They chased him as he retreated to the cops, and tried to kill him. It was all self defense",
"The first shooting appeared to be pretty clear self defense by an unstable protestor trying to chase down and attack Rittenhouse after multiple threats to kill him earlier in the evening.\n\nIt is all a terrible situation and just further enforces the idea behind Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes.",
"I really don't think that part is going to matter to the law, because bottom line is he was. Being a minor and doing what he did goes to intent.",
"You don't know or don't care about the difference between insurrection and revolution, and you don't know or don't care that the people's movement isn't driving around in trucks shooting people indiscriminately.",
"Good one.",
"I’m Canadian, and once again his right to defend himself is not dependent on how much money gets spent to fund the military/police. No matter how poor a decision you think he made showing up that night armed with a rifle, it doesnt mean he forfeits his right to defend himself",
"It's wild to me how lefties don't understand the concept of self defense.\n\nSelf defense requires ALL of the following to be true:\n\n1.) That you (or the person you're protecting) are not the initial aggressor;\n\n2.) That you reasonably believe that you, or another person, is in immediate danger of heart bodily harm or death;\n\n3.) That the force you used was necessary under the circumstances to stop the threat. \n\nSome states require that you first attempt to retreat.\n\nDeadly force is **never** justified to protect personal (movable) property. Some states allow you to protect real (immovable) property from certain felonious acts (that are also a threat to human life... like arson, bombing, etc) that would destroy that property.\n\nUsing that framework, are you able to answer your own questions?\n\n>Kyle had already killed a person who was not proven to be a threat to his life before any of this occurred.\n\nWhat steps do you believe Rittenhouse should have taken when he was being chased by an angry, shirtless, rioter who was yelling, \"Fuck you!\" Keep in mind, during the time Rosenbaum was chasing him, Rittenhouse had already turned and pointed his rifle at Rosenbaum in an effort to get Rosenbaum to stop coming after him. Rosenbaum did not stop, but was far enough away that Rittenhouse didn't believe it was necessary to fire. Rittenhouse continues to run, runs himself into a corner, and as Rosenbaum lunged, reaching for Rittenhouse's gun, Rittenhouse fires.\n\nImagine yourself teleported into Rittenhouse's body at the moment he realizes he's being chased... how woul you handle the situation differently?",
"I guess when you've got the initial assumption that you're already on the shooter's side, you'd take their word immediately.",
"Actually, he is qualified to render medical aid. He literally worked in Kenosha as a lifeguard, which requires first aid training.",
"Wasn't he only 17 at the time? I believe it was against the law for him to be wielding it there but I could be completely wrong.",
"Not this one in the video. That was the ginger midget that he shot who attacked him first. This piece of shit on the stand was the felony burglar who tried to execute kyle when je was on the ground being attacked by multiple people.",
"\"Then he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse and was shot.\"\n\nSo there you have it.",
"Why are you saying it isn't wrong to walk around with a gun illegally? What about a tank, that might save your life.",
"I'm not an expert, but the info provided in this post seems legit. https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/qpmb1a/cmv_kyle_rittenhouse_will_and_probably_should_go/hjx36ox/",
"> that cop that got beaten to death with a fire extinguisher\n\nOh boy, okay. I get it. [I get you people.](https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-media-lied-repeatedly-about-officer) \n\n[You might want to completely reassess your entire understanding of literally any of this. How do you fuck up so much such an aspect of these events?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/brian-sicknick-death-strokes/2021/04/19/36d2d310-617e-11eb-afbe-9a11a127d146_story.html) Consider how much of the narrative is as wrong as that bullshit you just spewed. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow you still considered ABC's Knob Creek gun range video to actually by Syria. \n\n>breaking into the fucking chambers of congress....\n\nLargely aside from the girl who was shot and a few around her who were egged on by a literal Antifa guy who for some reason escaped any charges (kinda strange, no?), they were literally let into the capital, and ushered in. I'm guessing the only videos you've watched were on the ol' television tube.\n\n>all those guys who were seen roaming around with...\n\nThose guys? [It was one guy, and who prosecutors say took the restraints from a table in the capital building.](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.tnmd.85025/gov.uscourts.tnmd.85025.8.0.pdf) Remember, you're the people chastising others for [living in some alternate reality while you say shit like this.](https://streamable.com/tu5uhg)\n\n>[that's not a good look.](https://i.imgur.com/4EqvDSs.png)\n\nthat's what you sound like\n\nYou know what else isn't a good look? The cops who some protestors filmed breaking windows, who sheepishly walked away while telling the accosting protestors to shut up. I know you know about this because MSNBC and CNN definitely covered it, I'm sure.\n\nI'm guessing you still think Smollet-Wallace-inspired AOC was in the capital building at the time too, right? It took 16 FBI to determine Bubba's noose was just a handle fashioned out of string. I'm sure the \"largest federal investigation in history,\" bigger than the 9-11 commission -- because of course the pants-shitting cartel of so-called politicians would care more about some rowdy protest than an event like the aforementioned -- will find the narrative to be nothing but reinforced by the results, right? Just like the Ukraine thing, and the Russia collusion thing. Definitely. \n\nWhat is it like though? What is like realizing that deceptive headlines and lies from the day are what stay in your head, while all the other information that completely discredit, disprove and otherwise **should** alter your worldview, become non-existent in whatever alternate reality it is that your mind occupies? I'd like to be reminded because I was here once just like you, but it's been a long time. \n\nWhat do you make of the pipe bomb guy, and why that [never became a pronounced part](https://national-justice.com/sites/default/files/2021/07/07/fiduong.pdf) of the story? [Meh, probably just another \"unindicted conspirator\".](https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/stewart-rhodes-oath-keepers-missing-link-fbi-unindicted-co-conspirator/)",
">Kid buys a gun to counter protest the BLM protest.\n\nHe didn't buy it.\n\n>Then Kyle runs away gun in hand rather than stopping to render aid.\n\nHe has no obligation to aid his attacker.\n\n>A crowd forma thinking he is an active shooter fleeing the scene (which is kinda is) so some people start chasing after him.\n\nHe's running away from an angry crowd, towards the police.\n\n>He then trips and falls\n\nAfter a guy attempts to hit him in the head from behind.\n\n>, and when he does so, points a gun at an unarmed man.\n\nWho just tried to hit him from behind.\n\n>He he does this, this causes someone else to drop kick him to get him to stop pointing the gun. He gets shot by Kyle.\n\nConjecture, and he wasn't shot.\n\n>Then a guy with a skateboard attacked Rittenhouse to get him to stop shooting the other guy.\n\nConjecture.\n\n>It’s worth noting that these three people seem to be trying to disarm Kyle rather than hurt him\n\nConjecture.",
"Revolution is a form of insurrection.",
"He went to a danger zone with the intent to help people, he had an aid kit and was doing such through the night. The gun was there for protection because it was a danger zone. \n\nAlso you don't even know what an assault rifle is obviously, and you shouldn't use terms you don't understand. It was a semi-automatic rifle.\n\nThe only illegal thing about the weapon was that it was bought by someone else and given to him.",
"It's fair to point out that the picture about which he was answering questions was after the impact of the bullet to his arm which would have made his elbow bend thereby pointing the gun toward Kyle. \n\nI am not going to go frame by frame to find out if the gun was pointed toward Kyle before the bullet impact though as I do not have a decent way to do it nor can I zoom in to see the gun. The defense even says \"[it's going to go by quick]\" so trying to watch it in real time isn't very telling. \n\nI just found it curious that the defense used a \"post bullet impact\" photo to \"prove\" their point. Why not show multiple pics leading up to that point where the gun is pointed at Kyle prior to the gun discharge?",
"Have you read any of the reports or watched any of the videos? He had a med kit and was filmed walking around asking if people needed medical care. He also was recorded that night explaining why he was there (almost verbatim what i replied to you initially). Kinda cringey to me cause it seems like hes LARPing as a medic (didnt actually have an EMT cert i dont believe) but thats the facts. Youre letting your opinions cloud your judgment",
"It does, it's his community",
"\"the first person he shot wasn't attacking him\"\n\nHe definitely was. There's video and multiple witness accounts of him threatening and chasing Kyle. There's an eyewitness account of him cornering Kyle after chasing him and grabbing his gun immediately before he was shot.\n\nThe guy this thread is about didn't get shot until he pointed a gun at Kyle, which he testified to, which would count as an attack.\n\nLiterally every person who got shot by Kyle that night was attacking him in one way or another. There's plenty of video evidence and eyewitness accounts to back that up.",
"Delivery driving is dangerous because of guns lol",
"Aren't gun rights a political debate? And shouldn't we all be on the same side of better gun control. This became political being rallied around as a gun rights issue.",
"Or you could just tail them to make sure they get to the police and you know.... not attack them.",
"Sick burn bro",
"Lol just keep the unsubstantiated claims coming\n\nLet me guess, you’re a political science PhD and a chiropractor too? Wild.",
"After kyle shot a man in front of him 2 seconds earlier, yes",
">And the left has went nuts wanting him imprisoned for murder **because extrajudicial murder is bad and the police stood by and let him go after he committed it at a protest specifically against police sanctioned extrajudicial murder**\n\nFtfy",
">The media used to be the one protecting people from government overreach\n\nReally? When?",
"I don't know how the law would actually would work. But I feel that if they had something that proved his intent, like in my example, that would be enough to justify a murder charge.\n\nI think intentionally putting yourself in a situation where you may need to use lethal force to defend yourself and your goal is to kill someone, it should be treated as murder.\n\nBasically I'm more concerned with how the law ought to be instead of what it currently is.",
"I feel as though many people on Reddit wanted him to lie as well.",
"Im sorry but illegally purchasing a firearm through a friend of yours is not just reckless. \n\n\nI think that going there was reckless. on everyones part. going to a riot, is reckless. Going to a riot as a minor with an illegally obtained weapon is not just reckless. thats...something else all together imo. borderline pre-meditated?",
"It wasn't an assault rifle (don't use terms you don't understand), and the only thing that made it illegal was that it was purchased by someone else and given under the table to a minor. It's also legal to carry rifles openly in Wisconsin, so he didn't need a \"Legal Concealed Carry Permit.\"\n\nYou have no idea what you're talking about.",
"It's not \"injecting bias\" when you include a testimony that Rittenhouse fired on someone who was charging at him with a gun in his hand. \"Injecting bias\" implies intent. Including various pieces of testimony from the entire period sets context, and not emphasizing any particular point and instead providing a broad picture is the opposite of bias. Homing in on a single snippet as a \"gotcha\" is bias. The fact is, anybody in that situation with a gun was an idiot, and the testimony shared only emphasizes this. While in isolation, the question of self-defense might be cut and dried, this isn't testimony in isolation. In the broader context of the conflict, where multiple people were already shot by the defendant, \"he pointed a gun at me\" isn't going to hold water when he was already holding a gun he had actively used on others. Not including the small point of \"the gun was pointed at him\" isn't bias.",
"It’s likely you are seriously misinformed about the details of this case. \n\nhttps://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-wisconsin-shootings-george-floyd-kenosha-3b74864f491347cfdd09cfc22ffdf557",
"My response to the person above me assumes they were asking a legal question. Rittenhouse going down there armed was instigation. That cannot be denied. So were the other example protestors bringing guns as evidenced by their shooting at him. That also cannot be denied. Legally, the question remains whether he was defending himself or not and we can only hope the jury has the evidence necessary and the courage to make the right call, whatever it may be.",
"Your intentions do matter legally. That’s the entire concept of self defense. The thing you’re supposedly arguing. Yikes, dude, you are pretty blind.\n\nYou made that claim at the end of the first paragraph of your post. Your dishonesty is something else.",
"Intent to defend himself and others. Bc that’s all he did. He was literally pursued the entire time. Watch the video.",
"True, true.",
"Hello AUrugby. I am confused by what you are claiming as well. Clicking the link you submitted, then clicking the picture that link goes to, it says the following.\n\n>Gaige Grosskreutz, the only person who survived being shot by Kyle Rittenhouse last year at a chaotic demonstration in Kenosha Wis took the stand at Rittenhouse's homicide trail. \n\n>He acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug 25 2020, but that his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse.\n\nThe only part that mentions hands being raised was the last sentence. The \"he\" and \"his\" that are in that sentance are referring to Grosskreutz. So, if we break it down, it reads as follows.\n\nGrosskreutz acknoweldged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug 25 2020.\n\nThis part is telling us that we are relaying info from Grosskreutz, not making a claim of truth. \n\nContinuing the sentence, we get...\n\nGrosskreutz says his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse.\n\nAgain, relaying info from Grosskreutz, not claiming it was true. \n\nIf you go back, you should see the same thing. If we are looking at the wrong thing, please let us know so we can reasses our info. As it stands now, I have no reason to believe that NPR is lying or trying to push a side. The only info in everything I copied over that can even remotly be taken as subjective is the word chaotic. Most people will agree it was chotic, but I'm sure there would be some that would decide to argue that point. If you take out that one word, you get that the person is taking the stand at a homicide trial. He was the only person shot and survived. The date of the demonstration he was shot. What he said, and his name and the shooters name. All of that is facts. His testamony may not be fact, but it is a fact that this is what he said. The writer mae sure to make it a seperate sentence so as to not conflate it with the setting of the facts that the first part did.",
">Did Kyle get killed? No.\n\nYeah because he shot the people trying to kill. Him",
":) go to law school.",
"Which guy is the one that got shot again?",
"Probably for the same reason they were rioting for a guy who got shot by police while attempting to essentially kidnap children from a woman who had a restraining order against him, cuz they aren't very smart",
"XD no its not you dumbass. It's traffic accidents. By far car accidents kill significantly more than guns. This is why I want traffic reform as well. And cars can do things besides murder. But, again, driving is dangerous because of car accidents. A simple Google will show this. But I suppose that's beyond the scope of your abilities based on your previous posts",
"Whatever helps you sleep at night.\n\nBlocked, I will not be getting your reply. \n\nPeople like you are absolutely the problem if you think a 17yo belonged anywhere near this situation. Idiot.",
"He was already punched in the head before he tripped, when he tripped he point his gun at someone who was actively approaching him. Jump kick man was already running after him before he pointed his just at anyone.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nSkateboard guy also already went and picked up the skateboard he attacked kyle with before kyle tripped. He was not only already following him, but he speeds up after Kyle trips, and is running at him before kyle points his gun at anyone. \n\nSo no, they were already trying to attack him before he pointed his gun at anyone.\n\nIts all in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iryQSpxSlrg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iryQSpxSlrg)",
"The victim is the person being chased and pursued. Rittenhouse was running away.",
"If a child rapist says to you he is going to murder you, and then dons a mask and hides behind cars until you pass as you are being chased by a mob for extinguishing a dumpster fire, then gives chase and attempts to pull your firearm out of your hands as people fire guns behind you, yes, you can shoot them.\n\nYou can also shoot anyone attempting to kill or attack you after that fact as you make your way to the police to turn yourself in.\n\nIt's called self defense.",
"Well yes, but these incidents significantly different which is what I was trying to say but reading it back I know it doesn't sound like that. Not the readers fault, mine entirely.\n\nIt's my understanding that it would be to prove a pattern of behaviour. But one incident isn't enough to prove that otherwise everything we do would be under a microscope. Considering his age, it's like saying I had a fight at school and now it's being used to sway a murder charge. \n\nMy point is more around the idea of a fair trial. The OP bought up an video to fulfill a narrative, or at least hint, that he wasn't there doing what he said he was doing. I don't really think that's fair for anyone on trial to be honest.\n\nIt's a bit like raising the Joel Michael Singer video and using that against Joel Michael Singer while he is in court. Yeah, the guy was a piece of shit but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a fair trial. There's no doubt if you bring that video up in a Reddit thread that it will seriously impede people's ability to consider the idea that he is innocent.",
"Your question is why was the guy who was attacked by a mob and knocked to the ground while retreating towards the police acting in self-defense when he shot someone who pulled a gun out and pointed it at him?",
"Unironically true though, without kids like him what would your country look like right now?",
"Other people threatening him doesn't give him the right to train the barrel on this guy though.",
"Why did Kyle Rittenhouse take a gun he wasn't allowed to carry, across state lines he couldn't cross with it, to go to a protest he wasn't going to participate in? If you go hundreds of miles out of your way to bring a gun to a protest, you're doing that because you intend to use it. Going out and looking for a fight is not self defense.\n\nWhat was that if not politically motivated violence?",
"What are you taking about?\n\nFirst off, watch the videos, it’s easy to do. \n\nThis is in relation to Wisconsin state law, too my understanding.\n\n1. You have the duty to try and retreat, which KR did in all three incidents (again watch the videos)\n\n2. You have to retaliate with force that is proportional. Again all video shows KR being chased and assaulted by numerous people, yet KR only used lethal force against people who were using lethal level force against him. He didn’t shoot anyone who just threw stuff at him or tried to kick him. (Again watch the videos)\n\n3. You can’t be the one escalating the conflict. Again KR in the video is retreating, and yelling friendly. He was actively trying to de-escalate the situations. Also, all three aggressors initiated violence on KR first.\n\n4. This is why the people who assaulted KR can’t be called victims in the court. Because if KR acted in self defense, then these individuals were the aggressors. And as it looks right now, it seems that the court will rule Kyle the victim and these other people aggressors.\n\nSo no, you can’t just brandish your weapon at people at random and be someone who is practicing self defense, what KR did was self defense, what you described is just thuggery.",
"And Kylie Jenner showed up to offer Pepsi. Having a box of bandaids doesn't lessen the fact that he had a gun or that he felt the need to engage protestors with it.",
"Why don’t you show me some kind of evidence that you graduated (or even attended for a single day) from somewhere so I know which institutions to avoid. If I’m gonna go to law school I don’t want to end up failing to understand basic shit like the burden of proof like you do.",
"K",
"And from all the available evidence that was a lawful use of force. You don't lose your right to self defense if you have previously legally used it, you don't have a limited number of self defense cards, it doesn't need to be recharged, it's a fucking right.",
"This doesn't address my point at all. He made the choice to go into that situation with a gun when\n\n1. He wasn't supposed to be there\n\n2. He knew it would be dangerous \n\nThe way to prevent himself from being killed is just to not go to Kenosha. How can you call it self defense when you didn't even do the bare minimum to prevent yourself from being hurt? He went looking for danger. He heard about a raging mob inflicting violence and showed up with guns and is claiming he needed to kill someone to save himself? You want to keep yourself safe? Stay the fuck home. You want to keep the peace? Don't brandish a firearm in the middle of a riot with fucking jeans and a backwards hat on. People don't know your motive.",
"https://kenoshareporter.com/stories/552689330-rosenbaum-raped-five-boys-sentencing-records-reveal",
"You realize that Republicans make up a good portion of the \"general public\", don't you? So you think they deserve to die because they annoy you? Good lord, I seriously hope you don't serve anyone food or drinks. You sound like the kind of person who would spit in someone's food.",
"Perspective is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact, therefore doesn't conform to being either right or wrong. What I'm saying is that in the heat of the moment the perspective of the people involved varies based on their own opinion. You can chose not to believe that everyone has their own opinion and perspective on the matter, but you're view would be unreasonable to attribute that amount of clarity to the issue in the heat of the moment.",
"Someone purchased it for him and kept it in their safe in Kenosha. They gave it to him the day of the riots.",
"Do you imagine how american that sounds to outsiders? People with guns all over the place, other people breaking shit up; guns get pulled out like candy in halloween; someone approaching the police in fear and expectation of death.\n\nThen when the guns are out, people are fighting for survival and to take down an enemy; and when bullets are in the air, thoughts are simple and fast or you're dead.\n\nDamn mess.",
"> idgaf\n\nthen why are you crying about it?",
"So you're saying that the fact that the gun saved his life doesn't justify him having it?",
"Fair enough. I still don't think it ~is~ should be enough to give Rittenhouse the self defense though. Not without knowing what went down with the first guy. \n \nSomething I do know is for example that many castle doctrine laws don't apply if the \"castle\" is being used for illegal activity (including Wisconsin's). Does the fact of him possessing the gun illegally factor in here? Do you know?",
"Rittenhouse, while a moronic teen pretending to be a \"hero\" and protect businesses, did not create the circumstances by himself.\n\nOutside of his armed presence at the event, i have not seen any videos of him escalating any situations. While on the reverse side the first guy shot was on camera threatening Rittenhouse and seen chasing him moments before being shot.\n\nThe other two guys shot got mixed up in the situation and acted without all the facts. Thus they were under the impression they were protecting people by stopping an active shooter. While Rittenhouse was under the impression they were part of a mob trying to stop him fleeing to the police.\n\nI fault Rittenhouse for intentionally putting himself in that situation. But the first guy who was shot, was not acting rationally, and very well might have cornered one of the other people he previously threatened to kill that night.",
">he travelled across state lines\n\nLegal.\n\n>with a gun he shouldn't have\n\nThe gun did not cross state lines, and the possession charge is a misdemeanor and does not nullify the right to self defense.\n\n>, to protect businesses that weren't his\n\nLegal.\n\n>and escalated a situation that resulted in people dying because he lost his temper and nerve\n\nConjecture.",
"I don’t see the point you’re trying to make. Get rid of them 😂",
"I'm not sure why you're surprised, that's the exact same reasoning people use to justify extrajudicial police shootings.",
"This guy ran up on Rittenhouse, with a loaded pistol in hand, all whilst the mob that was threatening to beat Rittenhouses ass was all running up to attack him.\n\nRittenhouse absolutely had the right to train his gun on this armed man who was a part of the angry mob pursuing him. And he certainly had every right to pull the trigger the moment that armed pursuer pointed his weapon.",
">I’m a socialist and I honestly believe liberals are worse than conservatives\n\nLol your confused, friend. Its your people, the dumb. Fuck \"lefties\" - socialists commies ect that are doing so. \n\nUs Liberals are the ones far more likely to not be some. Dumbfuck. Idpol who wants him dead.",
"I'm not sure it does. He sought out danger. If he didn't want to have his life be in danger, he should have stayed home.",
"\"Innocent\" hahaha god thats fucking rich.\n\nThe world is better off without women beaters and child rapists.",
">And yet one is impossible\n\nAre you transphobic?!",
"It wasn't an assault rifle, stop using terms you don't understand. It was a legal firearm, which you can legally openly carry in Wisconsin.\n\nThe grey part of this is that he is 17, which is too young to be able to do so.",
"He only used the gun when protestors engaged him, not the other way around",
"1. Though irelevant to a self-defense plea, this has not been litigated; however, Grosskeutz testified yesterday that he was carrying illegally.\n2. That has yet to be proven; that is precisely what the trial is for\n3. By Grosskreutz own testimony yesterday, this is just untrue. He stalked Rittenhouse.",
"I don't think it should. Political climates change very often and the court system shouldn't bend so easily to the will of public opinion.",
"I'd say the Child Rapist and Domestic Abuser he shot in Self Defense are... or were, considerably worse.",
"The videos literally show each of the people Rittenhouse shot, attacked him first.\n\nEven the guy that was shot first, clearly is shown to chase and attack Rittenhouse.\n\nBut there you go, proving it's BOTH SIDES.",
"Looking at these prosecutors they wouldn’t be able to even if it were Kyle.",
"it is a terrible situation, and I'll accept whatever a jury of his peers gives him because defensive shootings are complicated as hell. The person who has defensive posture can change like 10 times per second.\n\ntwo people are dead due to his poor decisions specifically. thankfully we have courts to decide these things, and dont have to rely on all the wisconsin law experts on reddit.",
"And the republicans",
"Despite my own opinions on Kyle's character, I don't see how this isn't clear self defense. \n\nHowever, what I realized while thinking about this case is I don't actually understand what happens if 2 people think they're both acting out of self defense. The law says I must reasonably fear for my life, or believe that someone else's life is in danger, before I can use deadly force. It doesn't say I have to *actually* be in danger (because that's impossible to know).\n\nSo if I see someone get shot, and I don't realize that the shooter is acting in self defense, and I reasonably believe that the shooter is a threat to others...what then? What happens when two people who both have legitimate claims of self defense shoot at each other?",
"For LARPing when he should’ve stayed his goofy ass at home",
"Were they trying to kill him or stop him? In context it sounds like they were trying to stop an active shooter. I fully understand where your hindsight comes from. They knew he shot someone. They didn't know why. They knew he was trying to walk away. They tried to stop the person who just shot someone. Please continue copium.",
"My thinking on that is that if police exercised the same level of restraint on their use of force that Rittenhouse did, there wouldn't have been any riots.",
"no... your definitely just an asshole.",
"Video of rittenhouse aiming at several people?",
"People all over the country open carry everyday and nothing bad happens. What made this situation different were the idiots rioting over the shooting of Jacob Blake, a man who was essentially kidnapping children from a woman who had a restraining order against him. It looks like rioting every time police shoot someone with a specific skin color, before learning any of the important details of the situation, isn't a good idea.",
"He damn well tried: You know hitting someone with a skateboard on the head can kill that person, right?\n\nIf only he was able to defend himse... oh, he did!",
"So you believe someone with a more powerful weapon is at fault?",
"It would be first degree murder",
"I don't know what personal bias you're referring to, because I didn't express my opinion about the case one way or the other. I refuted your statement, that he had a right to be there with a gun. He didn't. Possession of a \"dangerous weapon\" of any kind by a minor is illegal in Wisconsin, and \"dangerous weapon\" includes firearms. I didn't even address whether or not the firearm was obtained legally or not, cause it wasn't relevant to my statement. Him just having it in Wisconsin was illegal. I also stated that I wasn't sure what effect, if any, it'll have on the rest of the trial.",
"Finally someone who knows what they're talking about. Yeah, the big mistake was being 17 with a firearm that wasn't his. Big time stupid and asking for trouble.\n\nEveryone else here is saying he brought an illegal weapon (most of them classifying it as an assault rifle, which it wasn't) to a protest with intent to harm. He was there to protect businesses and people, which he had done for the majority of the night.",
"No one wants another summer of 2020.",
"Either way, it wasn't legally his.",
"Revolution means replacement. Insurrection means rise against. You're not making headway.",
"Not how it works 🙃",
"Kyle drove to a far away place with a gun to confront protesters. No one went out of their way to go pick a fight with Kyle.\n\n\"The left\" isn't made because of politics. Kyle was made into a folk hero *by the right* for using violence against people they disagree with politically.",
"Because this is a massively politically charged subject and there's a shit load of right wingers heavily invested in this kid getting off without anything.",
">Were they trying to kill him or stop him?\n\nKill.\n\n>they were trying to stop an active shooter. I\n\nLiterally zero evidence that a person with the holsterd weapon was an \"active shooter\" and also not why they tried to kill. Him. - this is a narritve thst was made after the fact to defend the people trying to murder someone in an act of sensless baseless mob justice.\n\n>They tried to stop the person who just shot someone. Please continue copium.\n\nNo they weren't because they didn't see him shoot anyone and that incident happened minutes before this.",
"Anecdotal evidence means nothing in the face of decades of sociopolitical action with the intent to harm and marginalize vulnerable people.",
"I dont mean he is a victim, I'm saying the logic is the same\n\nit has the same energy as \" she shouldn't have worn that or went there \" \n\nhe can go wherever he wants for whatever reason and if someone attacks him he is allowed to defend himself \n\nwhich is why its pretty obvious he's going to walk.",
"So its okay for kyle to point his gun at gauge but not okay for gauge to do so after he's been threatened?",
"Sounds about right to me.",
"Not sure how giving an underage resident from another state a gun is any better.",
"They both had every legal right to be there.\n\n>we all know he went looking to shoot people\n\nBut you don't apply this same logic to the rioter armed with a concealed pistol?",
"At least he came clean, I suppose. At least this story is backed up by video evidence.\n\nWhy do you seem so upset though, citizen? Are you angry the truth is coming to light, even though it was there all along?",
"He approached them by traveling about 20 miles and as you say, larping as police. He went there to counter-protest, that was in itself engaging them. Had he taken two minutes to realize that the majority of the protestors are there for very legitimate reasons, had he just left his gun at home, or had he himself stayed at home none of it would have happened.",
"Yes an illegally armed 17 year old should be judge, jury, and executioner. That’s a great form of justice in a civilized society.",
"He went looking to play hero with the other wanna be military guy who showed up armed.\n\nIt was stupid, it was illegal, but given how he didn't shoot anyone who didn't physically attack him, i don't think his was just looking to shoot people.\n\nHe is just a dumb teenager who didn't grasp the reality of the situation he inserted himself into.",
"No, that was just a point of emphasis on the fact that he had already pointed a gun at him. I'll remove it though, upon reflection it does seem to be a bit inflammatory.",
"I'm saying that everyone can have their own perspective, but in the eyes of the law, in this case, the rioters were wrong. Kyle broke no laws in the shootings",
"I mean it may be but nobody cares about any the other crimes he could have committed.\n\nit's obviously the murder charge that's important here and that's irrelevant to it.",
"It’s interesting that people believe the first thing they hear rather than facts that come later. I’d be curious to the evolutionary value in this. Maybe the immediate avoidance of potential danger?",
"His presence there has no bearing on the legality of the self defence claim",
"Getting into that position required both of them to have progressed towards the point of having guns pointed at each other. Rittenhouse's opportunities to back down were spread over a far larger span of time.",
"Did he cross state lines to get to the protest? was it his gun?",
"Strawman argument, instead of facing the actual threat to your pathetic argument you bring up a falsehood and place it on me. I never said anything about how I feel about him being there.\n\nYou're pathetic and your worldview is warped.",
"The rioters should have stayed home too. Are they pieces of shit too?",
"What do you mean \"he wasn't supposed to be there\"? The law can prohibit you from being somewhere - and in this case, everyone not a police officer was violating curfew equally - but that isn't an element in self defense. \n\nLike, you keep skipping over the fact that he was attacked. You are aware of that, right?",
"And conveniently ignore the rioter with a concealed pistol...",
"Hahahaha how do you replace the govt without overthrowing it? You're grasping at straws. Gaige got what he deserved. So did the pedo",
"Don't forget that he had already killed two people. How do you forget that point?",
"No no don’t remove anything. That’s not inflammatory. It’s no big deal. Have you seen the full video of what happened",
"There's a show in Rhode island dedicated to one judge hearing stupid cases",
"\"Guns are everywhere in America\"\n\nSo then why isn't the gun violence the same as Chicago, NYC, LA? Why do those cities have the worst gun crime? \nWI has open carry and CCW that are relatively easy to get, why do they not have the crime? \n\n\nIt is a fact that criminals will go after the easiest targets, the easiest targets don't have guns!",
"Yea and people died so he should be punished. But the justice system is so ass",
"Goooooo toooooo laaaaw schoooooool",
"The headline is literally “..the only survivor of the Kyle rittenhouse shooting”",
"But shouldn't we as a society enable our citizens to protect one another? In declaring Rittenhouse innocent we are basically saying. \"You should never protect anyone you are unsure is a victim. And you should never apprehend someone with a gun unless you are 100 percent certain they are going to shoot you?\"\n\n The first creates a society of onlookers. Someone runs past me. Hear lady say he robbed her. Not my problem. Guy runs past me with a gun. Doesn't matter if he robs that lady up the street I don't want him to shoot me without recourse. That seems inherently bad. I'm not saying we have a right to kill people but we should have a right to temporarily detain people as citizens.",
"You're a sad little man. Bye",
"> Why did Kyle Rittenhouse take a gun he wasn't allowed to carry, across state lines he couldn't cross with it, to go to a protest he wasn't going to participate in?\n\nTo help out and be a detterance against the riots/looting. He is on video extngishing fires and offering medical aid.\n\n> If you go hundreds of miles out of your way\n\nIt was 15 minutes from where he lives.\n\n> to bring a gun to a protest, you're doing that because you intend to use it.\n\nYOU DO SO INCASE SOMEONE TRIES TO HARM YOU! If a woman carries pepper spray, taser or even a gun when she goes jogging is that evidence she maliciously intends to use it? No it's so she is prepared incase someone tries to rape or kidnap her.\n\n> Going out and looking for a fight is not self defense.\n\nThere is zero evidence he was looking for a fight, there is no video or testimony showing him to being the aggressor in any of these situations. He retreated over and over and over again.",
"You first.",
"LMFAOO",
"Completely agree with you on this point. And I believe this is sort of what manslaughter is for. I think manslaughter would’ve got him charged. But due to political pressure they pushed for murder on this trial and he will likely walk free because of it",
"I'm not sure what your point is. Even now, well after the fact and people rationally going through mountains of evidence, people still disagree whether the original shooting was murder or self-defense. But let's say you're right. Let's say he killed Rosenbaum in pre-meditated cold blood and everyone around somehow magically could be certain of that fact. What then? You think it's a good idea for people to try to assault the guy with an AR-15 with dropkicks and skateboards? Any attempt to restrain or assault Kyle at that point was going to result in someone getting shot, which is exactly what happened. \n\nFollowing him from a distance, continuing to record him and reporting him to the authorities would have been the responsible thing. Huber would still be alive today and Gaige wouldn't have been shot in the arm. And Kyle would still have been arrested and put on trial for what happened with Rosenbaum.",
"GK has no argument of self defence because he was the aggressor or if you don't like that language \"actively putting himself in the situation\". Had he been attempting to flee and was shot yeah this would be an open and closed case.\n\nThe argument that he was trying to subdue an active shooter doesn't hold water because KR was clearly fleeing which means he is no longer active or a shooter.",
"kEeP it cLasSy\n\nI don't fucking care dude. This guy is a murderer and reddit is full of men who think escalating every situation to violence is an appropriate and masculine response. Fuck your ACHSWHAWKLY THAT'S A LOGICAL FALLACY and fuck Kyle Rittenhouse, fuck white supremacy, fuck racism, fuck fascism, and fuck making a hero out of a Nazi youth.",
"All three of them went out of their way to pick a fight, it's all on video.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/c3cjWj2RmlA?t=114\n\nThere is the first shooting, Kyle is chased through a parking lot, before he uses his gun to defend himself.",
"You mean the firearm that he shouldn't have been in possession of because he's a felon? That weapon? \n\nPutting that aside... Rittenhouse was fleeing from a group of attackers and was on the ground in a compromised position when grosscrotch(sp?) pointed the pistol at him.\n\nYour theoretical situation isn't really comparable since none of these people were near their homes during the time in question, but for conversation sake, yes, in your situation where I was theoretically open carrying and you escalated to POINTING a firearm at someone, YOU WOULD BE THE AGGRESSOR.\n\nSeeing as how grosskuntz(sorry, not sure on the spelling) JUST TESTIFIED that Rittenhouse didn't point the rifle AT HIM until he pointed his pistol AT RITTENHOUSE, AND THIS IS ALL ON VIDEO, grosswhatever is the aggressor, so your just wishing he would have gotten away with murder.\n\nYou're also ignoring the fact that Rittenhouse WENT TO THE POLICE, in fact that's where he was headed when grosscrotch attacked him, which we can reasonably assume grosscrotch wouldn't have done if the circumstances were reversed seeing as he was a registered felon illegally in possession of a firearm.",
"\"First person I never saw a threat from\"\n\nThere isn't any up close footage of the moment the first shooting happened, but there's plenty of video footage showing the guy threatening people and then chasing Kyle. There's also an eyewitness who confirms Kyle's story, that the first guy cornered him and attempted to take his gun.\n\n\"second person was trying to disarm an active shooter\"\n\nNo, Kyle wasn't an active shooter. The second guy, skateboard idiot, attacked Kyle because people were pointing at him and yelling and saying he shot someone. You aren't allowed to attack someone because people are pointing at them and saying they shot someone.\n\n\"third person was pointing a gun at an active shooter, making him the \"good guy with a gun\" I keep hearing is why we need guns.\"\n\nAgain, Kyle was not an active shooter. The third guy saw Kyle shoot someone in self defense and then ran up and pulled a gun on Kyle, he didn't get shot until he pointed the gun at Kyle. You aren't allowed to attack someone who's defending themselves, if you do that then you become another attacker.\n\nWe need people to stop rioting in the street every time the police shoot someone with a specific skin color without learning all the details first. Those degenerates were literally rioting for a man who was essentially attempting to kidnap children from a woman who had a restraining order against him. Those are the idiots who attacked Kyle and paid for it dearly.",
"He didn't have a legally obtained concealed carry. He was a convicted felong and was unable to carry a firearm legally. \n\nHe wasn't coming toward the protest either, he was running toward the police to get away from a mob chasing him after shooting the convicted child rapist Rosenbaum, and told them multiple times he was going to the police.",
"Sometimes you just got to take a moment to appreciate some of the dumb shit people post here",
">There is zero evidence he was looking for a fight\n\nHoney, he took a gun he wasn't allowed to even have to a protest in a different state specifically to intimidate or attack protesters.\n\nThat's looking for a fight.",
"I am waiting for proof.",
"The defendants intentions matter not the victims\n also intentions is not the entire concept of self defense LOL could you imagine if they were! It would be stupid and crazy I know. \n\nYou have to prove \"danger and harm was imminent\" you have to prove \"defendant actually believed they were in danger\" you have to prove \"force was necessary.\" \n\nI mean people can read the above comment and come to the conclusion on your reading comprehension.",
"That's a really stupid opinion. They don't just take the result of the biggest most publicized charge and apply it to all the lesser charges.\n\nThat's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.",
"Kyle was being rushed by someone with a gun out when he pointed his gun at Gauge. Gauge pointed his after the situation was de-escalated (Kyle lowered his weapon after accepting Gauge didn't intend him harm). To equate the two situations is a stretch at best.",
"Done. Barred and practicing in California. Go to law school. While you're at it, stop being a cunt too.",
"A person in Wi. gave him the rifle to use, and kyle left it in Wi when he left. So he never crossed state lines with a firearm.",
"So despite shooting two people he STILL wasn't an active shooter?\n\nJesus Christ, we need gun control and police reform, this should've never happened.",
"Yes. Violence is bad. Are you personally invested in this case?",
"Kyle drove across state lines with a gun specifically to intimidate or attack people he disagreed with politically. He went looking for a fight, found one, and is now being held up as a victim and a martyr by people who share his politics.",
"Everyone should be, the right to self defence is implicitly on trial depending on who the attackers are",
"And what about the clintons? Hahaha what about the Biden’s? Hahaha showing bias much??",
"Gun control has been upheld by the supreme court, just because something is written in the constitution doesn't mean it can't be tweaked.... They had muskets and we have nukes.",
"I watched the video. You can't run into a situation like this, get scared, then act like it's defense. He had absolutely no business being there, that was 100% intent. He went looking for a fight. \n\nAlso, I saw a lot out of context. Of course he was being pursued after firing shots. \n\nAid my ass.",
"Yep. And unfortunately, we live in a society where a black man doing the exact same thing, might not have the same trial outcome. I get the frustration and unfairness I really do. But using this situation as a “political football” really shows the biases that people purport not to have.",
"(I’m gonna use your strategy of just saying shit with no evidence and see how that goes)\n\nWe work in the same firm dude, what are you talking about.",
"TL;DR: I only like the law when it suits me.\n\nYours is one of the dumbest comments in this thread, and boy... that's quite an accomplishment!",
"And see, it's that lack of imagination that keeps you from being an effective person.",
"Your attemot to paint a convicted child rapist and domestic abuser as victims when they were in fact agressors is disgusting and predictable.",
"I'd argue that Kyle was better trained and/or followed his training much better than Gaige did, who should actually have received more training as its necessary to obtain a CCW. Its noteworthy that though he had just been attacked and fired shots seconds prior, he did not fire at Gaige who was approaching him with gun in hand and arms raised and only fired once the gun was pointed at him.",
"Oh boy, the underage kid with all illegal gun showed great control by only shooting three people!\n\nGun control please.",
"That is still in dispute, wisconsin law is not clear, lawyers themselves are debating the legality, but yeah sure you have the answer. When'd you pass the bar?",
"I'm curious what your thoughts are on mob justice, because that's what your defending.\n\n\nIf someone is walking away with a holsterd weapon, not threatning anyone and someone shouts \"he just shot someone\"\n\nDoes the crowd have a right to attack that person?\n\nThis isn't hindsight. No one had any reason to believe he was a shooter at any point in time.\n\nThey didn't \"know\" he shot someone, they \"knew\" thst some guy shouted he did.\n\n>it sounds like they were trying to stop an active shooter\n\n>They knew he was trying to walk away. \n\nThese two lines of dialogue are contradictory\n\nIf someone is \"walking away\" with a holsterd weapon they are not an active shooter.",
"Me too; it was still grainy and impossible to decipher; I've been watching the trial since Jury selection.",
"How about we have less riots from both sides.",
"The liberal Reddit is going to hate this!",
"Chicago is at it's highest gun crime rate ever, it isn't \"lower than you think\" LOL. \n\nOh and the CDC data INCLUDES suicides. \n\nSo death vs crime is not apples to apples argument.",
"He was an active shooter, how can you not argue the others were self defense too?",
"Ahh so you’re mentally unwell",
"Nope, just lived 10 minutes away and worked in Kenosha. Such a huge difference...",
"In self defense it is reasonable to assume that if someone is taking away your gun in a hostile manner that person intends to use it on you.\n\nKyle shot the first guy only after he made a move to take his gun.\n\nIt is not reasonable to assume one should not do everything in their power to prevent someone from taking their own gun away including shooting them. We have literal dozens of case law setting this precedence.",
"I'm not surprised, I'm very deliberately calling them out on their reasoning, so they can either affirm it (likely), make some bullshit excuse (more likely), or admit they were wrong (unlikely). Or just not respond.",
">I don't condone illegal violence but\n\nOh good then you don't want an underage kid with an illegal gun showing up and shooting people?",
"Who did have business being there? The rioters? \n\nRittenhouse was literally running away the entire time… \n\nYou don’t see prior to the gun fight. Rittenhouse put out a fire and was threatened himself by one of the men he killed.",
"This from the person that needed to pretend communist revolution means replacement and has always been peaceful thru history. Cope more dude. The facts are not on your side.",
"If America jumped off a bridge would you do it too?",
"Two guys on opposing opinions have hands on the trigger and neither has the gun pointed. A good defense attorney could get innocent to murder if either kills the other first. A good prosecutor would find it incredibly difficult to prove that it was murder if one killed the other.",
"No, I'm just right, you continue to stay mad tho",
"Actually no. Even if he's happy he got to kill people, that doesn't change the facts of the case.",
"Everyone should walk around with guns illegally and drive around in tanks because they can save our lives? A gun can save a 10 year old's life, doesn't mean we should hand them out to kids.",
"What's really fucked up is that the lying media has these people convinced that they're the majority...",
"I guess \"DEFENDING HIS workplace...\" just didn't have that same emotional zing to it, huh?",
"He wasn't an active shooter. He's on video telling grosskreutz he's going to walk to police to surrender with his gun down. They ran behind him and attacked him. Self defence",
"Guage never intentionally pointed his gun, however he did see kyle re-rack his weapon, so i dont know where you are getting the idea that the situation de-escalated, it was at that point that gauge feared for his life and attempted to stop an assumed active shooter.",
"Kyle defended himself from a person who threatened to murder him MULTIPLE TIMES \n\nHe was then chased, knocked down and attacked again. Swinging a weapon at someone's head, is in fact, attempted murder. \n\n\n\nMy hypothetical was just that, a hypothetical that I based around the argument you put forward.",
"Here's a much simpler scenario: \n\nI walk into a biker bar full of drunk mean dudes who tend to carry weapons. \n\nPerson A says \"I'm going to punch you in the face\" so I shoot him in self defense. \n\nPerson B sees this, begins to pull out a gun, saying \"I'm calling the police\" and I shoot him in self defense. \n\nPerson C puts me in a chokehold saying \"you're not going anywhere bud\" so then I shoot them in self defense. \n\nThen I walk by the police and go home like nothing happened.\n\nThis is all OK?",
"He didn't carry a gun across state lines illegally. He was given the gun by another person IN Wi. So he never actually crossed state lines armed. Not to mention in Wi. a 17 year old is legally allowed to open carry a long gun (rifle).",
"Go on then... tell me how it's going to work.\n\nI don't think it can go down as anything less than:\nMinor illegally possessed a firearm in public, minor discharged weapon on public. Clean that up.\n\nWe know he did it out of fear. However, a child holding a gun playing pretend-a-cop is pretty irrational, which is why he's responsible. Minor killed two and injured a third persons. That was his choice.",
"Yes, he doesn't have the right to be there *with* a firearm (which is why he should be charged with illegal possession / illegally obtained) but that doesn't mean be forfeits his right to self defense (using the firearm), you didn't refute anything. Also I said people in generally, I wasn't specifically targeting you.",
"Completely irrelevant. Still ill advised.",
"Not really. He was attacked and defended himself. The people in the wrong are the attackers. They were all shitty people, and all assaulted an innocent child",
"You’re accusing innocent people.",
"I'm not commenting on the case, I'm commenting on your remark that it is his right to be carrying a firearm. It isn't his right if he is underage.",
"I only like the law when I agree with it, yeah thats true and kind of the entire point of America. Are you really that mentally weak that you can't decide what is right or wrong without the scripture of the law to consult with?",
"Legitimate elections! That's a good one! When are you going on tour? I'd like to buy tickets to hear the rest of your set.",
"I know that the gun was purchased in Wisconsin and given to him upon arrival. However Wisconsin prohibits both the carrying of a firearm, whether concealed or open, by a minor (which Rittenhouse was at the time) as well the transfer of a firearm to a minor (meaning whoever gave Rittenhouse the gun also committed a crime)",
"He shot three people, a convicted child rapist who raped at least 5 children, a man who brutally beat and strangled his girlfriend multiple times, and a convicted burglar with an illegal firearm who attempted to execute him.\n\nMore guns please. This is proof they work.",
"Hahaha, I love that you're such an egotistical failure that you assume anyone that isn't a failure is lying. \n\nGo to law school. I'll just repeat that from now on, since you seem to be too stupid for more long form replies.",
"Will do!",
"Can you use weapons not registered to you and face no repercussion?",
"Nope. Nobody did except the people that lived there. But the rioters bad actions don't excuse Rittenhouse. \n\nIn a total shock, it's possible for both to be wrong. Stunning. \n\nStep back, just for a second and realize you are arguing for a 17yo to enter into a conflict with a firearm.",
"Gaige would have lost a self defense claim because he was the aggressor. He was chasing while Kyle was fleeing. That's a crucial fact for a self defense claim.",
"Nope, those are facts and can be viewed in their criminal records.\n\nHe shot three people, a convicted child rapist who raped at least 5 children, a man who brutally beat and strangled his girlfriend multiple times, and a convicted burglar with an illegal firearm who attempted to execute him. And they all attacked him first.\n\nStop defending child rapists and serial domestic abusers.",
"The two witnesses on there seem predisposed to take the defense's side. Why the prosecution would call them, I can't say. But I'm less inclined to believe that their interpretations of what happened are accurate. It is obvious that the first physical action seems to be Rosenbaum's, but can I say that is the case based on who is saying it? I don't know. Who knows what went on to prompt the \"fuck you,\" maybe it was them bringing guns like that. maybe it was something a bit more reasonable. Neither of us can say. Certainly something to consider though. \n \nAs for being misinformed, that is why I wanted the discussion.",
"What's really fucked up is that eventually it's not gonna matter at all. It's the practice of keeping smoke always visible on the horizon. While your fires might be small and few between, spread them out enough so that all can see them. It gives the impression of being much more prolific. One of the many tactics some of the revolutionaries used in the early 20th century.",
"You forgot a 4th option, dodge the question and accuse you of being a pedophile or a pedophile sympathizer.",
"Idiots with guns?",
"Interesting phrasing, do you think children have the mental and emotional capacity to act as armed vigilantes? Probably children should not insert themselves into violent situations while armed, right?",
"Haha you are sad that you have no proof and you want so badly in your little heart to be right and you’re not. Man take it easy when you hate fuck your pillow tonight nerd.\n\nEdit the woman at the capital “insurrection”? Yeah I mean the cop told her to stop with a gun pointed at her. She should have complied. Just like all the dudes who were shot because they didn’t listen to officers giving them commands",
">Go on then... tell me how it's going to work.\n\nHe is going to be found innocent because everything you said is just totally wrong and not how it works.\n\n>I don't think it can go down as anything less than: Minor illegally possessed a firearm in public, minor discharged weapon on public. Clean that up.\n\nYou just aren't even equipped to have this conversation, lol. You want him to be guilty and in the wrong so you strip all context and nuance from the situation and just focus on the one thing you think you have - the fact he wasn't legally allowed to have the gun\n\nHowever, I'm sorry to say that detail is totally irrelevant to how moral or legal the kills were.",
"I put a line through it. But no, I haven't seen the video yet because, frankly, I don't like the idea of watching people get shot. Movies are one thing, but real life is a bit far for me. Part of the reason for wanting to discuss.",
"Fox can't even be considered a news source.",
"Hahahaha where did I say I wouldn't dumbfuck? You really showed me. I literally just stated multiple times that equal justice involves accountability for both sides. I support throwing the book at people who break the law no matter what party they belong to. Is that what you expected me to reply? I'm not a little Biden/Pelosi/Clinton stan like you probably are for Gaetz/Disantis/Trump. Also crimes aren't crimes because fox news told you so. I mean actual convicted crimes through our system that hold up. Not political accusations. Like you wanting Hillary Clinton locked up for something Ivanka Trump did multiple times with zero accountability or repercussions. I don't even support Hillary like that but that's clearly a double standard for you. If you want Hillary locked up for a crime you better be for Ivanka being locked up for the same crime. That's equal justice. That's what I support. Fuck yourself if you don't.",
"The rioters bad actions do excuse Rittenhouse because they were attempting to do him serious harm. One of the armed men threatened to kill him if they caught him alone.",
"Even though this is an entierly farcical scenario that is completely fabricated I have to ask...\n\nWhy did guy B pull out a gun to call the police?",
"We graduated together, remember?\n\nI'll just repeat that from now on, since you seem to be too stupid to understand evidence.",
"Have you watched none of the trial either? He was there to protect 3 businesses that were all owned by the same family.",
"So again, he should have just shot Rittenhouse to death then testified that Rittenhouse leveled the gun at him.",
"It doesn't have to be registered to him. That is the whole issue with straw purchases, and why the guy who supplied the gun is looking at a class H felony. BUT, the person who is the recipient isn't liable, as it is on the previous owner to file the correct paper work.",
"Go to law school.",
"Right because he had a gun which just proves my point genius.",
"This is you confirming that right wing opinions are something that deserve to be reported thus validating the feeling of persecution being discussed",
"> Guess it comes down to if you think it's reasonable for him to fear for his life from a guy with a skateboard\n\nSince you can pretty easily give someone a fatal concussion by hitting them in the head with a skateboard, I would say yes.",
"I agree, the rioters should not have committed violent acts against Kyle.",
"We graduated together.",
"He didn’t decide himself that he was going that route. I’m sure a grown man chasing after and lunging after the weapon, well after telling KR that he was going to hunt him down and kill him. I’m not sure where your from but when you attack someone after threatening to kill them, that makes you a threat.",
"Question, would this defense work in other settings? No one was attacking or being threatening towards Kyle while he was standing by the dead guy. It was after he ran away from the scene that people tried to disarm him.\n\nIf someone fired a few shots entirely accidentally and hit a someone…then started running away. Would they be within their right to kill people trying to stop him or trying to take that gun out of his hand?",
"Rosenbaum was a ginger midget too, he just shaved his head so he could be more aerodynamic when he raped children.",
"What a garbage rule, garbage justice system, garbage fucking third world country in disguise.",
"Rittenhouse ran up all night on people with a loaded rifle in hand. You taking exception to this now just shows your bias",
"I’ll be sure to come back and take your comment when he’s found not guilty.",
"Correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t he also being tried for illegally carrying a firearm as a minor? Why is that being ignored?",
"What do you mean? I'd definitely consider anywhere within 10 minutes of my home, \"my town\".",
"Woooosh",
"He wasn't his job to police the streets with a rifle. So yes, in this case, stay home and let law enforcement handle it. Vigilantism is the reason two people are dead.",
"That was in testimony apparently.",
"Possess? Own? Carry?\n\nHe didn't bring it over state lines",
"> Kyle drove across state lines with a gun specifically to intimidate or attack people he disagreed with politically.\n\nWhat's your evidence on that though?\n\nHe was helping protesters medically at one point and tried to stop 'protesters' pushing a burning bin into the street near a petrol station. That's a bad job of wanting to fight people who disagree politically.\n\nAlso you are wrong from the very beginning, he didn't take the gun across state lines, he borrowed it from a friend. If he's broken any laws having the gun at that point then yeah, charge him for those but not self defence when he was attacked.\n\nFor some reason people forget the 3rd person shot had a gun hidden, that his permit ran out on and he was shot for aiming his gun at Kyle after fake surrendering.",
"SHOULD. NOT. HAVE. BEEN. THERE. \n\nSHOULD. NOT. HAVE. HAD. A. GUN. \n\nNobody threatens a 17yo kid walking around with a big red first aid bag. \n\nHe came looking for a fight and he got it. You are an idiot if you believe anything else.\n\nYou show up near me with that gun and I will shoot you.",
"Nobody cares.",
"I more or less agree, I'm worried a slap on the wrist won't thwart the psychopaths on the right though.",
">Rittenhouse ran up all night on people with a loaded rifle in hand. \n\nDid he now? Please, show me these videos of Rittenhouse \"running up\" on people. I want to see what you define as \"running up\" on someone.",
"Lol you clearly have a bias here bro. Go chat with someone else.",
"Go. To. Law. School.",
"Or you could put the blame where it should lie, with the people who decided to riot over the shooting of Jacob Blake, a man who was essentially attempting to kidnap children from a woman who had a restraining order against him. These people were out here rioting simply because of his skin color, before they had learned the details of the encounter. Funny how that doesn't seem important enough for you to mention.",
"Yeah, taking second place in the Kenosha Quick Draw competition wasn't a smart move.",
"It is indeed a damn mess.",
"We. Graduated. Together.",
"I'm not really sure how you would even go about changing it short of complete banning of guns. The reason that it is set up that way is because people give guns as gifts, especially to their children. \n\nI first got a .22lr rifle at 14 for hunting and protecting myself from animals when in the woods. \n\nI think you may have a misunderstanding of why guns are so hard to get rid of in this country. It is due to large parts of the country needing guns for protection from wild animals. Hell, there are places in Alaska that REQUIRE you to own a firearm due to wild animals.\n\nSo honestly I'm not really sure how you would even go about trying to fix it.",
"You do, that’s why you keep commenting.",
"Isn't there like encoring violence charges and the like also filled against him? Personally I just don't know how reasonable it is to claim self defense when you go out with the intent to play war. Legally he might be justified, but I do believe that it was his poor decisions that caused the worst of it.",
"Both of those things are irrelevant to the case but we can examine this anyway:\n\n>Did he cross state lines to get to the protest?\n\nYes, but Kenosha is the nearest city to Antioch. Gaige, however, works/lives in Milwaukee which is twice as far away. Whatever little reason Kyle had for being there Gaige had even less and had further to travel.\n\n> was it his gun?\n\nTechnically, in Wisconsin you can have a long rifle under the age of 18 in certain circumstances. Kyle is very likely to be charged and convicted of this misdemeanor but this is a separate change from the murder charge. Gaige however, has a criminal record, and as such he isn't allowed to have any kind of gun under any circumstance.\n\nBoth of these things however, are irrelevant as the case is about self defense. The bottom line is that video evidence shows Kyle trying to leave the scene with Gaige pursuing him and pointing a pistol at him. Gaige cannot claim self defense and it's a clear example of self defense for Kyle.",
"Well yeah the shots aren’t super clear but you might want to avoid it anyway. The videos shows this guy pointing a gun at Kyle before Kyle shot him in the arm.",
"The judge punted the curfew charge today.",
"The first guy grabbed his gun dude. Are you saying that he should wait for someone to take away his gun and possibly shoot him with his own gun? Is that reasonable?\n\nThat's why you can shoot someone trying to grab your gun and it be considered self defence.",
"Gotta stop lying to yourself and politicizing shit.\n\nRittenhouse is VERY clearly self defense. If you're watching this trial and are interpreting it as anything else, you're lying to yourself about what happened. You're trying to fit the trial into your preconceived judgment of what you THINK happened.\n\nI get it. You lose woke points if you don't take a side...but consider for like 2 seconds that you're wrong.",
"You still have no proof. Sorry kid",
"Go to law school.",
"Depends which one you're talking about. Three guys got shot. All of them were shot only after attacking Kyle.",
"We graduated together.",
"he had multiple people chasing him down after the first shooting. One of whom lands a hit on his back with some type of object. Then while still fleeing, he trips and more individuals are seen charging him while he is down.\n\nSo no the 2nd guy shot was not \"actively trying to shoot him\" but he sure as hell was not charging him with the intention of helping him to his feet.\n\nGiven the situation, i can't fault him for shooting the 2nd guy. Nor the 3rd guy who (after Rittenhouse aimed but DIDNT shoot him) decided he would raise his own gun and aim at Rittenhouse.",
"Imagine the USA if protesting wasn't allowed from day one. Oh, that's right it wouldn't exist.",
"I made this like an hour before it was dismissed. Hopefully the rest are too since this is clearly a political trisl",
"So the guy ran up to Kyle with a gun. Noted.",
"Sorry, I was anticipating you setting up the question within the framework of Kyle himself.\n\nYes, you can absolute practice self defence while in the process of committing a crime. Now, whether or not it will hold up in court due to extenuating or inculpatory circumstances is another story. But committing a crime does not force you to give up your bodily autonomy/right to defence.",
"What are you talking about?\n\nHave you not watched ANY of the videos or ANY of Grosskreutz's testimony?\n\nHE DID NOT WITNESS THE SHOOTING. This is shown by the video that Grosskreutz HIMSELF took.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x_mrdfjYLE&t=803s",
"Watch the video from the defense. Rittenhouse literally runs into the frame before he's chased by Rosenbaum. \n\nIf Rittenhouse is entitled to run up to people with a rifle, then why can't someone run up to him a handgun?",
"He wasn’t supposed to have a gun and neither were the people who meant him harm. Rittenhouse was chased down and he fired and killed. Then he was pursued again and had a gun pointed right at him. You mustn’t have watched the video.",
"I think it depends on if the person wants to believe it or not. If it’s something that goes against what they would want, then they may look into it more trying to prove it wrong. If it confirms their biases then they take it as gospel and it just must be true. Both sides are guilty of this but the media tends to run with more unsourced or scantily sourced stories when they happen to be about a particular side. When they issue a correction a week later it doesn’t matter because they’ve already achieved their goal.",
"Nah, I file that under \"bullshit excuse.\"",
"Try again. Idiots carrying out mob justice.",
"Zero evidence he was intimidating anyone. Just being there with a gun doesn't count.",
"> If it can be shown he went looking for trouble\n\nThis would be pretty possible to prove, but there's actually no evidence bearing this out. \n\nBeing a fucking moron is not (directly) in conflict with the law.",
"It should be required to get them registered to whoever it’s going to, even as a gift. So what if it spoils the surprise it’s a fucking gun",
"Well, if someone backs away with a knife they may still be in the reactionary gap, which is about 21 feet. Deadly force is usually determined by Weapon, Opportunity, and Action. Opportunity is broken down into maximum effective range and unrestricted access. Action would pretty much be gone if he is running away from you until he turned back toward you. You should be moving away from them to find a safe place, not closing the distance. \n\nThere is no case of an active shooter scenario. He shot someone in an altercation, which a jury will decide if it was defense or murder, then said he was running to the police. He was not shooting or threatening anyone else at this point. He then shot at three more people who were chasing and engaging him as he was running from them. Even if you wanted to use the active shooter buzzword they say you should run, hide, fight in that order. Not pursue. They kept forcing a self defense situation. \n\nI think he was an idiot for being there. I think his mom is an idiot for taking him. But the individual shootings seem like pretty clear cut self defense.",
"Even after he was attacked while retreating?",
"Gauge was caught misrepresenting so much that I'm hesitant to trust anything he says so I'll stick to video evidence. Since the day of the incident it's been publically available and shows Gaige go to aim at Kyle after what looks like a surrender motion. We can also look at the fact that Kyle didn't finish Gauge off after he was no longer a threat when trying to determine intent. \n\nLet's just agree that neither of us will ever know with certainty what either person was thinking in that moment but when one is retreating and one is chasing then the aggressor is easily determined.",
"You actually said the opposite about people having their own perspectives by saying that other people's perspectives, not your own, are wrong, you're declaring that your view is valid and other peoples views are not. But that is neither here nor there.\n\nI never said what Kyle did wasn't justified in the eyes of the Law. That is for the Jury to decide and that the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and since I'm neither of those, that's not my role. \n\nI'm just pointing out that if the person who pointed a gun at Kyle had shot and killed him, that person would have a valid self-defense claim as well because their perspective would be that Kyle just shot and killed someone, because Kyle did just shoot and kill someone.\n\nIts not as black and white as you seem to think, there is a lot of grey area involved and neither side is morally innocent. May be declared legally innocent, but no one involved was morally innocent.",
"So this one testimony is the whole trial? I've watched quite a bit of it, and I personally find it fascinating how people get one statement in a testimony and immediately become jurors. In the same testimony he stated he feared for his life... and that he thought Kyle was an active shooter. He is quite literally the \"good guy with a gun\" I hear so much about. Why was Kyle running and not being a medic like he claimed 15 minutes before the shooting?\n\nSo many questions... oh well... back to watching the trial and not commenting on it. :P",
"It IS required to get them registered, hence why the person who didn't register it being transferred is facing felony charges...",
"America sucks",
"I did. Inability to handle the fight doesn't excuse it. \n\nSay I show up to your neighborhood with a gun and you shoot me, am I in the wrong? \n\nYou know what, blocked. I won't be getting your response. Kindly fuck off you right wing nutjob.\n\nI lived in Wisconsin, never again. I live where this nutjob came from and there are a million more just like him. I need to leave this place. You idiots are insane.",
"Considering the mountain of bullshit testimony... I'll remain doubtful without video. Remember who testified to it?",
"Haha freaking typical from bleeding heart leftists. I didn’t say a word about politics but you made it about that because you can’t see past your terrible world view. It’s sad and one day when you grow up and get a job things will change for you. Kyle will be acquitted and you will be back to crying in your mommy’s basement wishing for a girlfriend",
"But the person who receives it should also be punished",
"Whether or not what he did was illegal remains to be seen. The verdict hasn't been reached the trial is still ongoing.",
"For what? They have no clue if the person filed the correct paperwork or not. That isn't on them, as they have no control over it.",
"No, he charged someone he believed to be an active shooter and tried to subdue him.",
"Where do you think we go if he walks? You think he should be allowed to own a gun again? He going to go down like that Zimmerman fuck later on? \n\nI don't know what it is you think you know about the situation better than I, maybe you were up his butt IDK, but this case is the clearest epitome case of white privilege in the country, and if it can't change here, there really isn't any hope left in remaining United as the United States. Laws only apply to poor minorities, and states can just disqualify minority protests as riots and hire vigilantees to deal with it. Just like they are trying to do with abortion in Texas. I actually expect the DOJ to step in if it goes wrong, like they should with the Ahmaud Arbery case. State laws testing to see what they'll be allowed to get away with.",
"So we don't actually know? Seems pretty relevant.",
"Who ran up to Kyle as he was getting away from them? Did they attack him? Didn't one of them have a gun in hand? Didn't that person point the gun at Kyle before Kyle shot back?",
"I guess \"only survivor\" is pretty close to calling him a \"victim\", but is there a more objective way to describe who he is in that few of words?",
"Please, Link it, I want to see exactly what you are referring to.\n\n>Rittenhouse literally runs into the frame \n\nOkay, so how is running into the frame of a camera \"running up\" on someone?\n\n>before he's *chased* by Rosenbaum. \n\n*Chasing* sounds a lot more like running up on someone. Runs into the frame of a camera does not.\n\nBut by all means please supply the video you are referring to.",
"I mean in that instance the shooter in the first example would be able to shoot those people right?",
"If the person gifting them the gun cares about them, they’ll do the proper paperwork. You can also go check to see who it’s registered to after receiving it. It’s a gun bro, there should be 0 leniency",
"This was reported widely in coverage prior to the trial and im sure you'll find it in the testimony if you want to do the legwork. But even in Grosskreutz testimony he says Rittenhouse pointed his weapon which would justify a deadly response.",
">What's your evidence on that though?\n\nHe brought a gun to a protest that he opposed, and carried it openly.\n\nThe one thing we can all say for sure is that he went looking for a fight.",
"I definitely am biased against felons having firearms and for people rightfully defending themselves against agressors. I'll chat where I want, thanks.",
">I'm not sure what your point is. Even now, well after the fact and people rationally going through mountains of evidence, people still disagree whether the original shooting was murder or self-defense. But let's say you're right. Let's say he killed Rosenbaum in pre-meditated cold blood and everyone around somehow magically could be certain of that fact. What then? You think it's a good idea for people to try to assault the guy with an AR-15 with dropkicks and skateboards? Any attempt to restrain or assault Kyle at that point was going to result in someone getting shot, which is exactly what happened. \n>\n\nPeople were already shot. Rittenhouse was the only person who killed anybody there. He was also the only person trying to kill people.\n\nNone of this matters though, because you cannot defend yourself with an illegal firearm",
"Still doesn't give anyone the right to attack him.",
"I’m just saying that the wording sounds a lot like he’s the survivor of a mass shooting and it feels like that’s the picture being painted by NPR",
"Im talking about kyle shooting huber right in front of him, its literally always on the news",
"Well yeah, but that's not in dispute. And, if Rittenhouse had already pointed his gun, I'm not sure I think it would really matter. Also, not to rip up old wounds, but it certainly didn't hurt that guy in Florida's self defense case who shot and killed a teenager after having been told not to follow him. Maybe the laws are different, but seems pretty off-putting that chasing is a problem in one jurisdiction and not in another.",
"Then why be a hypocrite and say that Kyle shouldn't have been there without saying that the rioters shouldn't have been there either?",
">If the person gifting them the gun cares about them, they’ll do the proper paperwork.\n\nEXACTLY, so say a disgruntled FIL who hates his SIL wants to get rid of him. He could gift him the gun and then get him in trouble through no fault of the SIL.\n\nThat is why it is set up that way. Also, gun transfers aren't instant, they can take up to 2 weeks, thanks to the \"cool off period\" BS laws they have.",
">You think he should be allowed to own a gun again?\n\nAbsolutely, he is literally the poster child. For perfect gun safety and control.\n\n\nHe is what every gun owner should be. \n\n\n>I don't know what it is you think you know about the situation better than I,\n\nPretty much every thing about it and the law and ethics surrounding it.\n\n>like they are going to have to with the Ahmaud Arbery case\n\nActually by your logic the hicks who lynched ahmaud were in the right, since they suspected him of doing a crime and being dangerous, so they stepped in to stop him.",
"While that was his intentions and how he saw the situation, you have to look at the other side too.\n\nRittenhouse would have no way of knowing the intensions of the person trying to stop him from getting to the police blockade.\n\nIn this situation, i believe both parties can claim they were acting in self defense. Rittenhouse in defense of himself from multiple unknown and armed assailants, and those chasing him in defense of others who could be the target of \"an active shooter\" next.",
"Those 2 guys who were rioting could have also stayed home or left when they realized weapons were in play. Instead of attacking someone who put out one of your fires could have walked away. Instead of hitting him with a. Skateboard as he was running away towards the police could have walked away. Many paths lead these people to where they are. No one made good choices that night and I’m refusing to call a kid a murderer for defending himself.",
"Oh I'm following. Yeah that's exactly how I feel",
"Your... ease of access to artillery is always somewhat shocking.\n\nAlso not surprised at the polarization, even with the vaccines, wtf?\n\nJust so you understand how we see the difference:\n\nBoth us and the french have the same saying, and its old, a few decades at least. \"Maior e vacinado\" \"majeur et vacciné\"\n\nIts said to assert that yes, you're going to do something, cause you're a damn adult. It translates to \"of age (maior) and vaccinated.\"\n\nBoth things are supposed to go together, if you're engaged in the world, maybe risking your ass (tetanus shot).\n\nIt never became a political issue - only how to distribute it - and we sorta got near top vaccination among the world's countries.",
"oh, it's more that it's his right to be there but by all means string him up for whatever it is when you carry a gun at his age.",
"It's called \"fake news\"",
"Well yeah they were chasing Kyle here and attacking him all before he shot.",
"His bicep is clearly in the process of evaporating, so we're talking milliseconds from impact. Which is not enough time for that to play out, which is probably why no one including GrossKreutz made that argument.",
"Oh he should absolutely be punished. But he did not murder those people in cold blood. He willfully put himself into a terrible situation, and do to the choices of multiple people, not just himself, people died.",
"Weird we have thousands of hours of footage but not a second of this mystical \"kyle pointing his gun at several people\". And I googled and can't find any testimony to support your claim- hence me asking who testified to it, as google isn't showing that anyone did.",
"Probably didn't know they had literal video evidence of him holding the gun when he gave the police statements? Or realized the penalty for lying under oath is much more severe.",
"Says the guy who doesn’t support someone else point of view. Pot meet kettle.",
"Still the SIL should check to make sure the paperwork is done. If there is a waiting period that’s stupid af and there should be like a facility that holds the gun until the process is done. Annoying but necessary",
"No, I don’t agree with his actions and I think the law should be changed.\n\nHowever, as it currently stands, he did nothing illegal when shooting those people. When can change the law now, but you can’t go to jail for committing a crime before it became illegal.",
"... what? Yes I don’t support fascists’ point of view.",
"Idk if he wasn’t there I feel like those people might be alive today lol",
"Would you not agree that the mob of armed protesters, running around setting fires and looting were not also putting themselves in danger for no reason whatsoever? \n\nAn organized protest is one thing, but let's not pretend that's what was going on the night in question.",
"I’m specifically talking about the self defense charge, he’s going to walk on that. \n\nEverything else is up to the jury and I have absolutely no opinion on the matter because…I’m not a lawyer lol.",
"Sure thing fascist.",
"Heres a more accurate version of your own story for you:\n\n\" I walk into a biker bar full of drunk mean dudes who tend to carry weapons. \n\nPerson A, a convicted child rapist, says \"I'm going to fucking kill you\" chases after me and grabs for my gun so I shoot him in self defense. \n\nPerson B, a convicted domestic abuser, doesn't see this, I tell them \"I am going to the police\" and he knocks me down and begins clubbing me over the head with a stick after his friends kick me in the face and I shoot him in self defense. \n\nPerson C, pulls out an illegally concealed gun and points it at me. When I point my gun at him, he puts his hands up, but when I point it away from him, he points it at my face again and starts walking closer to me as I'm on the ground. I shoot him in self defense. He later expresses that his only regret is that he did not murder me quicker.\n\nThen I walk by the police to turn myself in but they tell me to get off the streets so I go home before turning myself in.\n\nThis is all OK?\"\n\nYES. This is all okay.",
"I would have agreed until BLM became a thing. Organized riots of this scale are new and since the politicians prevent the police from shooting them, they don't solve themselves.",
"Yes.\n\nLike i know you swear not to lie but if you don't Grt caught in a lie your fine.\n\nLoads of lawsuits rely on catching someone in a lie and the accusations are enblished.",
"Why? \n\nWhy is it self defense for Rittenhouse but not for Grosskreutz?",
"Oh I see haha",
"Yes, this is what I’ve been arguing.",
"Just white nationalists",
"He pulled a gun before anyone was killed. Listen to the guy's testimony.\n\nKyle was walking, a psycho threatened to kill him, tried to take his gun and shoot him with it and was killed. Kyle fled to turn himself into the police and gaige and jump kick tried to kill him while he was running to the police.\n\nThey earned getting shot because they created a hostile situation. Every person Kyle shot earned it.",
"> e hicks who lynched ahmaud were in the right\n\nNah dude. By my logic, you are one of the hicks. Rittenhouse is a poster boy for gun safety? You would hire 17 year olds for tense situations and arm them.... the military is even leery about doing that, and they have extreme disciplinary rules. Rittenhouse didn't have the sense to stay the fuck away from where he didn't belong, and for proof, he brought a gun, something he shouldn't have had, to somewhere he shouldn't have been. He went and picked a fight. I don't sympathize that he felt threatened, because he asked for it. Something stupid under developed mind would do. He wanted to be a big man, and now he deserves some man sized consequences.",
"Oh it shouldn't but it happens.",
"Go to law school.",
"Are you arguing that didn't happen? That them and BLM didn't cause billions of dollars in damage across the country? That they didn't put entire federal buildings to siege for months?\n\nOh wait, are you one of those \"It'S aN iDeA\" people, poor thing. It's retarded.",
"His possession of the gun is 100% clearly illegal.\n\nThe rest, yes I'm happy to let the courts decide",
"I agree, but Rittenhouse's bad decisions were not the only ones made that lead to this situation. I would share equal, if not more blame with Rosenberg, who was the major aggressor in the initial situation that spiraled out of control. \n\nThankfully as you said, we have a court of law and impartial jury members who decide what happens rather than a reddit comments section.",
"Y'all are terrifying.",
"https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5zr9/grosskreutz_admits_that_kyle_rittenhouse_only/hjz48pz/\n\nDidn't look far did you",
"Yet he still didn't surrender to the police after shooting two more people??\n\nGTFO y'all are crazy.",
"Because grrosskreutz had no reason to believe he was in danger of harm.\n\nHe chased down and tried to shoot rittenhouse. Whe rittenhouse aimed at him, he pretended to surrender. When rittenhouse lowered his rifle, he tried to. Murder him.",
"no need to lie though if you've done nothing wrong... or you can lie to avoid prison pass blame onto kyle knowing full well mainstream media would jump to his defence + try to get a payout in a civil case based on lies.",
"“Show up near me with a gun and I will shoot you”\n\nYou are proving the relevance of self defense.",
"LOL months of federal buildings under siege. That literal didn't happen?\n\nYeah there was no other reason as to what was going on. Lmao you're a joke",
"\"Not including the small point of \"the gun was pointed at him\" isn't bias\"\n\nExcuse me? The fuck are you on?\n\nThat is not a small point. Its the main point on if Kyle was acting in self defense. Excluding or down playing that means someone is pushing a bullshit narrative.",
"Lol I’m sorry reality doesn’t align with your preferred narrative here, but we have have video and witness testimony indicating Kyle acted in self defense in all three of the shootings.\n\n1st - Guy chasing him goes to jump on him and reaches for kyles gun - backed by video and witness testimony that was called by the prosecution. Also witness testimony says this guy had previous said if he caught Kyle or the others alone he would ‘fucking kill them’\n\n\n2nd - Guy hits Kyle in the head with a skateboard - It’s on fucking video dude\n\n\n3rd - Guy charges and points gun at Kyle prior to being shot- Confirmed by the guy who pointed the gun at Kyle along with clear picture/video corroboration\n\nBut yeah…. all that hard evidence and witness testimony is suspect cause you gotta protect your narrative. \n\nDunce",
"And now he will have lieing to a jury as an other federal offense. He can be not guilty but will be charged with jail time regardless.",
"Then we agree, but i believe something may have been lost in translation, as i (along with others) appear to be under the belief Rittenhouse could not claim self defense simply because he illegally brought a rifle with him.",
"Yes, I'm sticking to the video evidence too, and kyle pointed his gun at gauge after he shot 2 people, so its easily determined who is the threat.",
"The article isn't putting people on trial, it's reporting about the people putting people on trial. You're not in the jury, you're on Reddit, claiming bias because an article isn't explicitly validating your world view.",
"Lol he did. He walked up to the police lined up with his hands in the air. The cop yelled at him but Kyle didn't comply, mainly coz he couldn't hear the cop coz the cop said he couldn't hear what Kyle was yelling to him (he was surrendering). The cop then pepper sprayed him from distance and Kyle walked away.\n\nWhy are you making statements without listening to the trial? The cop who pepper sprayed him said all this in court yesterday. You're the crazy one pal",
"Idk what to tell you dude, but the details of this trial have not been painting the same picture as the narrative I've been hearing when this whole thing originally went down.",
"It was illegal for him to possess the firearm in the first place, why admit to a felony when you can just lie and hope no one finds out.",
"Put your noose away, dude. He got arrested. He standing trial. Let it go and switch to decaf.",
"I just hate the way America is at this point but I appreciate you explaining some shit",
"Have counter-militias show up to stop THEM from killing people. And next thing you know you have full on war zones in population centers. And before you make a smart comment about Detroit or Chicago or whatever, it will be far worse. \n\nAlso destroying entire communities? Really? Look I'm as opposed to looting and vandalism as you are, but you act like someone burned Kenosha to the ground.",
"It happens repeatedly in all the videos. There are crowds all around as Rittenhouse carries a rifle and runs. \n\nFinding any particular video related to this is difficult, but there was something from the defense that showed the beginning of the Rosenbaum shooting and Rittenhouse runs towards the crowd there as well. .",
">You would hire 17 year olds for tense situations and arm them....\n\nIf they were all rittenhouse absolutely.\n\n>, and for proof, he brought a gun, something he shouldn't have had, to somewhere he shouldn't have been\n\nHe didn't take the gun there.\n\n>He went and picked a fight\n\nHe was attacked.\n\n> I don't sympathize that he felt threatened, because he asked for it. \n\n\"I don't. Sympathise she was rape, because she asked for it\"\n\nAnswer honestly, if 17 year old girl went to these riots with a gun, almost got raped and stopped it with an illegal weapon you'd have to say she deserves it",
"You are right Rittenhouse being absent might have meant no one was harmed. And it certainly would not have played out exactly like this.\n\nHowever given the evidence that Rosenburg was seen threatening to kill multiple counter protesters if he found them alone, i am not convinced he wouldn't have just found someone else to fight.",
"So?",
"Also, was just looking a bit more into it. It doesn't even look like it would matter as if the gun was loaned to him, he would be in the clear and not need it registered to him. People loan out guns all the time to friends to go hunting, target shooting, taking care of pest animals, etc. It is completely legal in Wi.",
"NPR is amazing and if you don't think so you are an uneducated moron in my opinion I don't even care if that offends anyone they can get fucked.",
"Yes but it shouldn’t be. I hope gun laws change drastically soon",
"It's written from his prospective,telling his side of the story. when you do that it can mislead, or spin",
"Which charge would you convict him on? He’s only on trial for the shootings which is almost certainly going to be called self defense. He hasn’t been charged with anything else because the moron prosecutors were media pressured into an a case they had virtually no chance at winning.",
"I'll remember all this next time I shoot three people! \n\nHot fuck gun control please",
"Those two things are not the same and you know it. Most sane people don't go to a riot with a rifle thinking they aren't going to use it. He didn't need to be there, he didn't need to bring a gun and he didn't need to kill anyone. He put himself in a situation where he \"needed\" to kill 2 people. Most civilians with guns don't go out of their way to put themselves and others in danger. This guy did something extremely reckless. What gun owner do you know goes around dangerous situations ready to shoot anyone who tries to attack you? He isn't a soldier, he isn't a cop. Nobody especially not a fucking teenager should be running around with a rifle at hand shooting anyone who might be a threat.",
"Fair enough I suppose.",
">left wing counter militia\n\nGood joke lol",
"because with the amount of videos it was pretty obvious it would come to light. \n\nand due to him being shot in the arm they wouldn't be as harsh but it seems they gave him leniency anyways. considering he hasn't been charged.",
"Ignorance is not an excuse. You haven't watched the trial at all have you? The family member that owns the dealership testified under oath that Kyle was asked to be there to help protect the business. Geez, step outside the echo chamber. You are rehashing liberal talking points from August of 2020, fuck dude - do you read anything else other than Reddit?",
"Again, that makes no sense. That means that shooting ranges can't rent out guns, you'd not be able to take a friend hunting to teach them how to to do so, or your own kid for that matter.\n\nYou do realize there is a ton of other reason to enjoy firearms than being some militia type right? Plinking with a .22 is fun for most people as it is barely more of a kick than a strong bb gun or pellet gun, and just a bit louder.",
"Anyone that can listen to right wing media, or even left wing media, and then tell me with a straight face that NPR and associated media aren't the least corrupt source of news seems short a few braincells or actively lying.",
"Why do people like you excuse killing people with, \"they shouldn't have been there\"? People lost their lives thanks to a teenage with a gun and an attitude. That should be the concern, not whether people should have been rioting.",
"We graduated together.",
"No what you see here is a lot of people who post in fascist subs spamming threads about Rittenhouse.",
"Go to law school.",
"But what I was asking/suggesting is that his motive should matter. Surely a person's motives are part of the facts of the case.",
"I think child rapists and men who strangle their girlfriends are terrifying.\n\nI do not think children who shoot violent criminals attacking them and trying to execute them are terrifying.\n\nI do not think guns are terrifying.",
"We graduated together.",
"Police were busy and the rioters wanted police abolished, so you get what you deserve",
"*Part of it is written from his perspective, and they even state that it is written from his perspective. The rest of the article is written from the perspective of the court.\n\nThat's literally how you write an article.",
"Go to law school.",
"There is no way you can compare the murderer to a would be rape victim. That's a big fat hypothetical straw man. \n\nSecondly we probably still would be asking where the 17 y/o girl got a gun?\nAnd why go to an orgy with a gun? It's clearly going to be an orgy, signs have been posted.\n\nIf you show up of your own volition, to the expected event and put on a shocked pikachu face when you brought matches to the explicitly labeled powder keg, it's not exactly blameless.",
"Yeah, that's fair. When it comes down to it, depending on the board you might not even need to get that lucky, some hard edges and metal poking out. Not that bad of weapon all things considered.\n\nPersonally I don't think I would think I was gonna die, just get beat. But that's not for me to say.",
"Could have just said prosecutors have no case and it would have been the same. They literally are screwed. KR taking the stand is the dumbest thing he could do. He’s literally the only way the prosecutors could hope to get anything.",
"I don’t think you know what fascism is",
"Being armed is why Kyle is alive and could defend himself",
"I'm comparing the victim of one assault to a potential victim of another assault.\n\nYou said you don't care he was assualtes because he had an illegal gun somewhere he shouldnt have been.",
"Do……do you know the meaning of fascist? How is anything I said fascism?",
"I mean we know he pointed his gun towards at least 3 people haha. \n\nIts impossible to find half of the original articles about the events because this story floods Google daily.",
"How many people were killed that night other than the two people kyle shit and killed? How many racist alt right fuckheads have been beaten to death or killed at any of these protests? When you pull your head out of your ass, it’s absolutely sunny blue sky clear that this whiny little bitch was never as risk of losing his life and he’s just a full blown pussy needing a gun to make himself feel tough",
"Really wouldn’t want to hear what a child molester has to say. The world is a better place without him hurting children.",
"Lol get fucked, if he wasn't armed none of this would've happened. Other dude shouldn't have been armed either.",
"Dude, we don't need vigilante justice.\n\nThose other two should be tried for their crimes just the same as everyone else.",
"He had as much right and more than those guys burning business and destroying property.",
"Haha no, after being wrong about the basic facts of this case your opinion is worthless. Guns saved Kyle's life. Rosenbaum the pedo was unarmed but tried to kill Kyle. It's not the guns it's the people. 2A is here to stay cope more",
"What noose?\n\nI'm simply pointing out what the law in Wisconsin says about self defense.\n\nToo many people don't understand it, they think every state is like Texas or Florida, and people not reading the laws of a given state are going to cause more issues for everyone.\n\nOn one hand a bunch of people think the Rittenhouse didn't do anything wrong, and on the other hand a bunch of people are going to use him as a reason to legislate more gun regulations.\n\nBut as an American citizen who's been invested in this society for some time now, I see no reason to let anything that has consequences for this society go, whether those consequences are good or bad.\n\nIt's in the best interests for myself and the people I love to care about those consequences, both the good and the bad.",
"They were. And it wasn't vigilante justice, it was self defense. The ample amounts of video footage prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.",
"Let's say a black man went to a trump. Rally with a gun, and shouted \"fuck nazis you all. Nazis\"\n\nSomeone lunges at him shouting \"shoot me n***\" and tried to take his gun. He fires at him, no time. To aim because he needs to protect himself.\n\nNo sympathy for him, right? He is just a murderer\n\nOr do you think thst would be self defence?",
"Gun shots going off. Two people dead and Rittenhouse with a rifle firing.\n\nHow exactly did he know he and other protesters were not in danger.\n\nAs to the argument that Grosskreutz inserting himself into a dangerous situation nullifying his defense, than why does that not nullify Rittenhouse's defense?",
"He invited the world to disarm him the moment he stepped into bigger boy shoes he wasn't ready for.",
"Leaving out key details is the definition of injecting bias.\n\nWhy are you defending this?",
">You've got a very, very obvious bias here and you're pretending you don't, which feels really deceptive, at face value.\n\n\"Thats my view anyway. Take a look at all the evidence before forming an opinion though.\"\n\nLooks like -you- are the one showing a bias because OP clearly states he formed his opinion after interpreting the footage: never does he says he's holding the one truth. He's interpreted the footage, and formed an opinion on it. That's what everybody SHOULD be doing.\n\nInstead of attacking him personally, maybe next time you can actually refute some of the points he brings up?\n\nYou're being the deceptive one here...",
"Trust me, I in no way consider that having guns means you're a bad or doubtful person. We also have a hunting tradition here - shotgun based.\n\nBut its so damn easy, you could even get them from mail in the past, that the odds of a confrontation involving weapons seems very high.\n\nAlso your cops seem trigger-happy to an excess.\n\nWhy would you require a conspiracy? You don't need to poison the guys who buy your stuff and give you money, in bailouts as well.\n\nAnd with all this confusion, this has been the biggest transfer of wealth upwards ever, and its not even being discussed.",
"No gun shots going off at that time. Rittenhouse is not firing, he has a holsterd weapon and is leaving, the other was pursing him.\n\n\nAll this admitted in the court of law, and proven with video evidence. \n\n>How exactly did he know he and other protesters were not in danger.\n\nBecause there wa literally no reason to believe so.\n\n>As to him inserting himself into a dangerous situation because he felt could help nullifying his defense, \n\nGoing to a dangerous area doesn't nullify your right to self defense.",
"To the best of my ability at least, lol.",
"Part of the point I was making was that maybe people would be allowed to chase him down. The presence of a somewhat imposing 17-year-old with an AR-15 is terrifying. Easy to mistake that for an active shooter.",
"At one point during the unrest, the mob that was 'yelling about it' started a dumpster fire and were attempting to push it into a gas station before it was extinguished by one of the Kenosha militia members Shortly after, Rittenhouse was seen with a fire extinguisher, which is what prompted the initial aggression by Rosenbaum, who attacked Rittenhouse. \n\nSo it would be more like your friend whom you've been burning buildings with all evening sees a guy with a fire extinguisher, decides that guy is the enemy and attacks him, gets shot, and then you and the rest of the mob chase the guy who was putting out fires, because he was trying to stop you from burning things.",
">Proceed to be biased as fuck and call him a brace kid who fucking murdered people.\n\nIf he murdered people, surely he'll be convicted for that, right?\n\nLet's talk in a few more weeks when the jury is, literally, out on this.",
"If you go to a conflict with a gun, then get attacked and your life is threatened, and you shoot your attacker after trying to escape, yes that is self defense",
"Here, allow me to help you, give us a timestamp of where Rittenhouse runs up on somebody.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/moderatepolitics/comments/iia9p6/every_video_of_kyle_rittenhousekenosha_shooting/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share",
"He drew his gun and chased him, shouting \"STOP HIM!\" **BEFORE** he shot Huber.\n\nChasing someone with your gun drawn for 2 blocks telling the crowd to \"stop him\" is not self defense.",
"> No gun shots going off at that time. Rittenhouse is not firing, he has a holsterd weapon and is leaving, the other was pursing him.\n\nRittenhouse shot at the first victim following gun shots fired in the air. He turned around and panicked not knowing the source of gun fire and shot the first victim.\n\nBut apparently that's justified use of lethal force and self-defense. \n\nGrosskreutz, hearing gunshots and after two people had been killed drew his weapon to confront the \"active shooter\" in his mind just as Rittenhouse engaged an \"active shooter\" in his mind which apparently, according to Reddit, is enough to let him walk.\n\nPerceived threat is enough apparently.",
"Heh, solid joke.\n\nAs for the rest, I even used Google tools to limit before this most recent testimony and still not finding it. Seems it wasn't widely reported, remember where you heard it?",
"I know it's controversial and the producer is 100% a nutjob, but everyone in this thread should watch the documentary \"The Trayvon Hoax\" - it's all about this, and what happens in the courtroom isn't always what is presented on the news.",
"Kenosha damage = $50 million\n\nJan 6 damage = $1.5 million\n\nI would consider Jan 6 to be a riot. I don't know what your personal threshold is...",
">The people he shot were all past criminals and one of them was a child rapist.\n\nI agree with the rest of your post, but just because some of the people he shot had previous convictions doesn't have anything to do with if he was justified or not: KR also doesn't have a clean slate.",
"Oh okay, never mind everyone, it wasn't a lie, they just didn't know what they were talking about but pretended like they did.",
"I’m saying he wasn’t at risk of losing his life and that he’s a massive fucking pussy that needs a gun to make himself feel tough. How many people died that night other than the people he shot and killed? How many alt right racist pussy crybabies have been beaten to death at rallies like this? Despite many protests and countless confrontations between alt right fuckheads and protester, kyle was going to be the person that was going to be beaten to death by two people at a rally for being a racist idiot running around with a gun antagonizing people until they became violent.",
"How does that relate to your \"self report\" comment? Are you saying the user you replied to is a white nationalist? If so, what specifically indicates that?",
"Correct, if you shoot someone in self defense you are not considered an active shooter.\n\nPlease explain how gun control would keep any of this from happening, it doesn't seem to be helping anything in Chicago or Detroit.\n\nPlease explain how police reform would have kept this from happening.\n\nWhile you're at it, maybe you should consider the fact that the idiots out there rioting were rioting because of the skin color of Jacob Blake, a man who was shot by police while essentially attempting to kidnap children from a woman who had a restraining order against him. This sort of thing wouldn't have happened if people weren't dumb enough to riot because of someone's skin color when they don't even know that details of the situation.",
">He was not shooting or threatening anyone else at this point\n\nAh the 'I did bring a semi-automatic rifle, presumably to shoot people, that is what they're for, and I'd already shot one person, but everyone around me should just have *known* that was all I was going to shoot'\n\nIt's interesting to watch people say with a straight face 'other than the person Rittenhouse had shot and killed, there was no reason for anyone to think he was a threat...'",
">It’s worth noting **THAT MY INTERPRETATION OF THIS IS** that these three people seem to be trying to disarm Kyle rather than hurt him.\n\nFTFY.",
"Since you havnt actually watched the evidence here is a run down\n\n>Kyle is attacked flees, and shoots purser when all other options are exhausted\n\n>Kyle attempts to Axminster first aid. Rings someone to tell them he has shot someone.\n\n>is instructed to leave and glgo to police to let them know\n\n>he does this he holsters his weapon and leaves the area\n\n>later on down the road a rioter shouts that he shot someone\n\n>mob justice is attempted, a Kyle is knocked down and a kid tries to murder him with a skate board.\n\n>skate board kid is shot\n\n>another purser, who btw has been following him for long enough to understand he was not a threat aims his pistol at him\n\n>Kyle reacts and aims back\n\n>guy puts his hands up\n\n>when Kyle lowers his gun the guy once again raised his gun in an attempted murder\n\n>Kyle shoots him\n\n>the people who were aparentl trying to stop and active shooter all stop when he actually shoots people who attack him\n\n>Kyle turns himself in to the police",
"Who decides this in the heat of a moment? Someone sees Kyle shoot someone, so they shoot him. Was that self defense? Kyle points a gun at you, you shoot him, self defense?\n\nHow do y'all think MORE GUNS is the solution?",
">Unfortunately Rosenbaum was looking to die that day.\n\nI read somewhere he was just released from hospital earlier for trying to commit suicide.\n\nIn effect, Rosenbaum should thank KR for finishing the job for him...",
"You can’t be convicted for killing someone you honestly believe is an active shooter as you believe them to be a danger to your life and others. It falls under self defense. So no, he wouldn’t have.",
"OK, so if a teenager girl walks into my man's bar, she is invited me to rape her for stepping into bigger shoes she is ready for.",
"Everyone who witnessed Kyle shooting someone witnessed him shooting someone in self-defense. You aren't allowed to attack someone because they're acting in self-defense.",
"While he's right they are a bunch of Nazis, he can't go in there doing that, so yeah, kind of murder. Weird that we have to treat Nazi's like people, wish we could go back to 1940's rules, but yeah, that's how our civil constructs work. He didn't have to be there brandishing a weapon enflaming the tense situation. No sympathy, people possessing weapons need to be smarter than the object of power they are holding.",
"He shot someone trying to disarm him after shooting someone else. \n\nYikes y'all. I'd rather just have better gun control and safe streets and police that do their jobs, and not have any of this from the start.",
">Kyle is attacked flees, and shoots purser when all other options are exhausted\n\nKyle hears gunshots and panics and shoots the unarmed assailant thinking he was the source of the gunshot.\n\nHe's getting off because he was scared.\n\nYou have the right to bear arms but I can't believe there is no responsibility to check your targets.",
">when you go out with the intent to play war.\n\nI agree. Good thing that isnt the case here.",
"Or what you'll shoot me? Y'all are terrifying.",
"I don't write articles",
"I find the people crying fascist are usually fascist themselves. The guy just pointed out that you bitching he’s guilty he’s guilty does not in fact make him guilty. A jury of his peers are going to decide that and from prosecutors case it’s not looking good for the guilty crew. But go ahead and cry fascist because people like you have over used words like that, they no longer have meaning and are just considered filler language.",
"It's self defense all the way down, everybody shoot everybody! \n\nYikes y'all",
"I know, that's very apparent.",
"lol, that made me chuckle.\n\nIt's quite funny seeing the media outlets that pretty much called him that in their reporting the past months now barely reporting on this admittal. And if they do, the headlines still seem to be incredibly biased.",
"No one took his rifle. He’s running around a protest with multiple loaded weapons aggressively harassing people and antagonizing them to become violent so he can “defend” himself. I guess I’ll just walk into your home and start waving my gun around and calling you a tiny dick racist cheeto worshipping cultist until you get angry try to physically remove me or disarm them. Then I’ll shoot you and call it self defense because I feared for my life despite going out of my way to put myself in a place I shouldn’t be doing idiotic shit that guarantees a negative violent reaction from people",
"Oooh, you mean the guy he didn’t shoot because he retreated? Yea the same guy who was chasing him and running in for an attack as KR fell? You can’t be serious right? That guy was clearly going in for an attack, Kyle had absolutely every right to point his gun in defense, good thing he doesn’t have a sloppy trigger finger huh? \n\nThe mental gymnastics you’re going through here is not only downright pathetic, it’s insanely idiotic. You’re either blatantly lying you’re you’re a fucking dumb individual. I mean that sincerely.",
"If they wanted to hurt him, why didn’t they just shoot him from afar?\n\nWhy get up close and risk trying to disarm him?",
"It's also worth noting that both those two persons attacked him, without him instigating any of that.\n\nHis first victim was setting fire to shit, which KR reportedly extinguished, which angered the guy.\n\nThe second victim was trying to implant his skateboard into his head.",
"Kyle was running with a gun after he had killed someone and people were yelling that he just killed someone, so, why couldnt gaige have the gun out as well in case he needed protection?",
">Rittenhouse shot at the first victim following gun shots fired in the air. He turned around and panicked not knowing the source of gun fire and shot the first victim.\n\nThis was way before the incident we are talking about\n\n\n>Grosskreutz, hearing gunshots and after two people had been killed drew his weapon to confront the \"active shooter\" in his mind\n\nProven wrong by his own words. And. Video evidence in court of law.",
"The kid murdered two people but he supported the fascist team so fascists support it. Fuck off.",
"He was. He also tried to antagonize people into shooting him",
"Jesus Christ man, it’s right there on a video that you can watch with your own eyes, how tf are you going to try and refute literal video evidence",
">they are absolutely in their rights to defend themselves and shoot Rittenhouse.\n\nEven if that is true, and it might be, it doesn't mean kyle loses his right to defend himself",
"So his comment was histrionic and stupid, probably if I had to guess informed by some level of pro-Rittenhouse / pro-gun ideology.",
"Did you not understand your straw man questions have no power here? We aren't dissecting your hypothetical any further. Rittenhouse was/is a 17 y/o pussy who wanted to feel like a big man. Be it they wanted to kill him or rape him, he brought the whole situation on everyone when he could have just stayed home whacking off to guns. He wanted to be in the middle of it, he wanted to be there with a gun. He made all that happen. He is a murderer banking on white privilege and suckers like you that I guess see yourself in him, to get him off. Who else did he need to shoot that night for you to be able to find him guilty and not a suitable candidate of employment?",
"And the people attacking him had every right to get Kyle to stop pointing the gun",
"That's not what happened, he shit when his gun was lunged at, you literally don't even know the facts",
"Why am I defending this? You're an antivaxxer. Any form of logic or reason is already wasted on you.",
"He was pointing a gun at someone when the guy with a skateboard swung",
"Yep, agree 100%. I’m an independent (I know, enlightened centrism, yada yada) but I’ve always admired and respected Democrats and progressives that keep above the shit flinging, and don’t stoop down to the level a lot of republicans are known for. Now it seems shit flinging has started to infect the other side as well sadly.",
"yes.",
"So you support pedophiles and women beaters? Because that’s who got killed for attacking KR. But sorry facts hurt so much. Recommend mental toughness exercises.",
"He shot someone trying to execute him after he shot someone beating him over the head with a board, after he shot someone who told him he was going to kill him and tried taking his firearm.\n\nNone of this would have ever happened if they kept their hands to themselves and didn't attack him.",
">This was way before the incident we are talking about\n\nAnd speaks to why Grosskreutz drew his weapon. Rittenhouse's self-defense argument hinges on the context of months of BLM protests so a few minutes counts as the same \"incident\". \n\n>Proven wrong by his own words. And. Video evidence in court of law.\n\nProven by his words. He approached Rittenhouse becuse he heard gunshots and that people had been killed and there was Rittenhouse with a rifle in the vicinity. \n\nThey're both Vigilantes. Just on different sides of the political spectrum.",
"*should* see perjury charges. But he won’t, just like didn’t face weapons charges. This is a political case, the prosecution isn’t acting in good faith.",
"Alright, picture it. I break into your house and I start stealing your things. Presume you're a mechanic or an Uber driver, and you rely on these things I'm stealing to make a living. Presume you're far enough away that by the time police arrive, myself and your livelihood are long gone. \n\nRemember that any physical altercation with me could result in the loss of my life, maybe you have a gun, maybe i do, maybe I'll fall and hit my head.\n\nDo you allow me to do it for fear that a life might be jeopardized? Or do you try and stop me, risking it?",
"Both those two persons attacked him first, without him instigating any of that. \nHis first victim was setting fire to shit, which KR reportedly extinguished, which angered the guy and he threatened to kill him if he would see him by himself. Later that night he chased him (there's footage of that), at which point KR tried to defend himself. \nThe second victim was trying to implant his skateboard into his head, which I'd say is also pretty good grounds for self defense.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nDid those two people need to die? No. Nobody should be for something so irrelevant. But if they'd be minding their own business and wouldn't have actively tried to attack KR, they would still be alive.",
"You might be mentally unwell bud",
"https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/08/26/video/26vid-kenosha-muzzle3/26vid-kenosha-muzzle3-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp",
"\n\nTell you what, when you have any logic or reason to waste please feel free.\n\nThough, I'd recommend you don't. You seem to be in short supply.",
"Thanks, I appreciate your answer.",
"Yea that’s not how that works. Kid is a murderer and you’re a fascist for defending him.",
"You can also say if Kyle wasn't there with an assault rifle intending to use it, they'd be alive....\n\nWe need police reform and gun control.",
"Wait, in the line of questioning they mentioned him having his hands up prior to pointing a gun at KR. Why were his hands up? Was KR pointing his gun at him?\n\nBecause drawing down on Kyle, if kyle had already been pointing a gun at him is completely acceptable, and doesnt mean kyle was defending himself, as the gun was drawn to defend oneself FROM KYLE who was an armed threat.",
"You can also say if Kyle wasn't there with an assault rifle intending to use it, they'd be alive....\n\nWe need police reform and gun control.",
"No, I will work on fixing it.",
"And people need to learn to stop rioting too.\n\nNot protesting: Rioting.",
"But they can't, because attacking his character due to prior teenage bluster isn't admissable. Just like the first guy being a mental patient with multiple child rape convictions isn't admissable.",
"I hope you understand how dangerous that precedent is. Someone who just wants to get away with killing as many people as they can will get away with murder with 0 issues under a system you endorse.",
"Yet you removed your initial post? lol!",
"Wait, in the line of questioning you quoted they mentioned him having his hands up prior to pointing a gun at KR. Why were his hands up? Was KR pointing his gun at him?\n\nBecause drawing down on Kyle, if kyle had already been pointing a gun at him is completely acceptable, and doesnt mean kyle was defending himself, as the gun was drawn to defend oneself FROM KYLE.\n\nKyle was wielding a weapon at a protest. Its hard to argue he can wave his weapon around freely, and anyone else that does it is a threat he has the right to extinguish. \n\nThe other party has every right to draw their weapon in self defense. If he (KR) had his gun out first, then he is inherently the threatening party that someone could fire on and argue self defense. Not the other way around.",
"You can also say that Kyle wouldn't have been there if they hadn't been rioting, looting and burning. I do not put responsibility of violence on the person being attacked, the same way I do not blame rape victims. You do you though.\n\nGun control has lead to increases in violent crime, homicide, domestic violence and rape in every American city it has been pushed and enforced in.\n\nI do not support any legislation that leads to that, no matter how warm and fuzzy it would make you feel.\n\nWe need police reform and firearm safety education.",
"He fled the scene after the mob started to gather and threaten him. His first action was to call the police.",
"> He shot and killed multiple people.\n\nYou just gave yourself up for have zero understanding about what's happening. Try harder next time to actually pay attention to what you're talking about.",
"No, they didn’t. They had no right to be chasing him and attacking him, he had every right to defend himself from people chasing and attacking him. How are you this fucking dense?? He wasn’t just pointing the gun at random people, he only pointed at people who were attempting to attack him and only shot at people who actually physically attacked him.",
"Yeah but nothing he did can reasonably construed as provoking attack. There are regularly protests with 1000s of openly armed people where nobody is shot or attacked. Being on a public street while armed is not a provocation.",
"**Definition rioter:** \"*One of a group of people who meet in a public place and behave in a noisy, violent, and uncontrolled way*\"\n\nSeems calling them wild animals is pretty apt. Your comparison is completely unrelated...\n\nNice try though: I'll give you a sticker for it!",
"And those people had enough probably cause to try and detain him.",
"If his self defense claim holds that charge won't stick. You can't simultaneously use a gun for valid self defense and have the same use be reckless.",
"That is exactly what he testified. If you remember, that's the original version of his story, and he only recanted when presented with photos and video. The entire problem here is that he gave a factually incorrect account of the evening, which now makes the rest of his testimony suspect. The actual issue is whether or not what happened prior to that shooting makes the people attempting to disarm/attack him the ones acting in self-defense, or if the initial shootings that led to the subsequent ones were justified, in which case Rittenhouse was defending himself.",
"Why would he need protection? Kyle ran past him in the opposite direction. Grosskreutz was heading to provide medical attention, and instead he TURNED AROUND to follow Kyle with his gun drawn.",
"> He shot and killed multiple people. Clearly the people around felt that his actions were posing a threat and he needed to be stopped, otherwise they wouldn’t have pursued him and tried bring him to justice.\n\n\nThis isn't the situation that happened. No one in the court room has said this has happened. There is no video indicating that this is what happened. The person you responded to didn't say this happened. \n\nThe first person was chasing him and he was cornered. \n\nThe second person attempted to attack him after he was running away and tripped. \n\nThe third person kept approaching Kyle with his gun out. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting\n\nThere wasn't multiple victims before Kyle was being chased. There were zero victims before he was chased. \n\nI know it doesn't fit your narrative but at least try to pay attention.",
"This is an aaaawful stretch, like an insanely bad comparison and example. Kyle was out to PRE-EMPTIVELY defend other peoples property from a fictitious future crime that had not happened that he had no reasonable suspicion to believe would happen. \n\nAre you trying to argue that its self defense to stop someone from stealing your tools if you're a mechanic?? Thats braindead. Tools can be bought. A life can not.\n\nThere is also a difference between 'potentially risking a life' and ACTIVELY CHOOSING TO END ONE. Sure, I'm risking the lives of myself and everyone else on the road every time I drive. Would you say getting in a normal but tragic accident that kills people is the same as driving down the wrong side of the road? Thats what Kyle was doing. He was driving down the wrong side of the road and then acting surprised when he hit someone. It was bound to happen.",
"I wasn't trying to imply that their assessment is incorrect- just that I found it curious. You're also assuming the people involved with the trial are smart enough to assess the situation properly. \n\nHow rapidly do you think the elbow bends when the upper arm is struck by a bullet? I would say almost instantly as the force of bullet is in process of pushing his arm in the photo which is how his bicep is getting vaporized. I'm not even sure a standard camera (read: non-high speed) has the frame rate to capture how rapidly the movement occurs- like what was in the frame directly preceding the one presented into evidence? Was the gun pointing in that direction in the preceding frame(s)? This would be more indicative of Gaige's actions versus what is seen as the bullet made contact. \n\nAgain, I do not know, but one should not conclude that \"facts\" presented in court are a legitimate representation of what occurred. They are both skewed toward the side for which a lawyer is arguing. \n\nAlso please note that I don't think anyone involved (including those dead and alive) was a good person. I have no dog in this fight and an fairly certain this \"trial\" is merely theatrical.",
"Why is the point of the article to do that? What if they wrote an entire article on his mother’s idea of what happened? As a journalistic organization, what you focus on and what you don’t focus on can easily distort the facts of a event. If there’s actual footage clarifying what actually happened in contradiction to his testimony then it should be noted. As someone once put it, a good journalist doesn’t report what the weatherman said, they stick their head out the window and see what the actual weather is.",
"See there you go using a word that means nothing. It’s like me calling snoodling. Doesn’t mean anything because people like you have cheapened it’s value. Have you ever even met a true fascist. Guessing not.",
"Well.. those. Obviously.\n\nI'm sorry I haven't been able to keep up with 8hours of live video every day. \n\nI think some people somehow took my comment as me taking sides, but I was literally just explaining my ignorance. The funny thing is is *have* tried to keep marginally informed by seeking out much shorter videos that summarize the days proceedings, and I guess I just didn't catch it.\n\nI HAVE been actively avoiding any news coverage of the incident which comes off as clearly biased in either direction so I don't know what to tell you other than I apologize for not being able to get to the truth and facts as quickly as simply as you have.",
"Because they are reporting on the trial as it happens, and have covered all the other testimony as it happens. That's called \"reporting.\"",
"Dude look at literally any other first world country and their gun control and our murder rates.",
"He testified that he believed this was an active shooter situation, seems like a good reason for protection",
"It's a negotiation tactic. Prosecutors ask high for a lower settled point.",
"And if we post an article with the photos of him wearing his “free as fuck” shirt posing with the proud boys throwing up their racist hand symbols will you concede he is a racist fuck or will you just move the goal posts? Let’s be honest here.",
"Definition Wantonly: \"*in a deliberate and* ***unprovoked*** *way\".*",
"Yes, Manslaughter would have been a better option off they can't prove intent.\n\nPersonally though I think that intent is self evident in this case. I think a civilian showing up to an event where there is likely to be violence while open carrying a weapon should show intent to kill and should not grant you self defense protections. If only to prevent people from doing this on purpose just so they can \"legally\" kill someone.",
"Two people who were attacking him.",
"99 percent of quoted statistics online are bullshit.",
"If he believed it was an active shooter situation and was worried about protecting himself, why would he stop, turn around (ignoring the calls for medical care that he was originally responding to), and chase the shooter for 2 blocks?\n\nSounds more like he wanted to play hero.",
"Same. This is where the second amendment comes to save the day.",
"Not even twisted. I consider it a good thing to protect property from rioters if the police won't. Koreans did it in LA during the Rodney king riots and protected their businesses.",
"This POV is so weird to me. Like of course that's true but so what?\n\nI admit that we'll never know this for a fact but the chances that anyone in this group would have seriously hurt, let alone killed anybody else in this altercation if this kid didn't want to play Rambo and carry this gun around illegally is slim to none. \n\nOur gun laws and penalties for breaking them, especially when it results in death are incredibly weak and ineffectual. He wouldn't have had to defend himself if he hadn't brought the gun around and played make believe John McClain.",
">The witness had every right to use his gun on someone that was actively fighting and just shot someone else.\n\nNo, he didn't, as he didn't know if KR was an active shooter or not.",
"The OK sign being a white supremacist symbol is a ridiculous fabrication, and the Proud Boys being white supremacist is also a ridiculous fabrication. They have a very diverse membership.",
"Well then THAT's explained. Your family - and some of your attitudes - come from a different place.\n\nThe american justice system - life prison for 3 strikes? A guy going in for a f...g garden scissors? Private prisons? What a shitshow.\n\nThe health system? Its a joke. You can get an operation here and not go bankrupt. And we have higher life expectancy.\n\nThe police act like occupiers among an hostile population.\n\nBut what really gets me is what I perceive as cruelty, a sheer wish to see the \"irresponsibles\" and basically the poor suffer. There is a basic cruelty that makes it so hard politically to get universal health care - because then people who deserve to suffer would not get their dose of pain.\n\nThe same happens in brazil - the middle class hates the poor. Wish you could understand this [piece by a Brazilian researcher.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ELkXEppiOM)\n\nHow do you see this subject? Am I reading it badly?",
"Instead of snark, I think you're better off linking to the actual video/evidence where it shows KR to be the aggressor.",
"The prosecutor had been sitting there with his hand like that for a long time, and rittenhouse touches his face in the clip. It sure which you’re talking about",
"Now remove urban crime rates from the statistics and get back to me. People who live in the country and own firearms should not be stripped of their constitutional rights because American cities are shitholes filled with violent crime and inept governments.\n\nAnd if you're talking about gun control for the type of weapon Rittenhouse was carrying, a rifle, then I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. Rifles were used in 450 murders in 2018, in a country of 335,000,000 people. In comparison, hammers were used in 400, and knives were used in 1800. 200 more people were beat to death with hands and feet than killed with the type of weapon Rittenhouse carried.\n\nI get it though, they look scary so they gotta go.",
"No, they didn’t you fucking moron. He was retreating to surrender to law enforcement. They were trying to prevent him from getting there so they could injure him. That alone disproves your bullshit theory, but the “probably” cause you keep talking about is even more bullshit because you’re blatantly ignoring the facts to arrive at that opinion. Kyle didn’t provoke the first attack. All 3 were clear cases of self defense. Saying anything otherwise when there’s clear video evidence is dumb. We literally have the first guy on video threatening to kill Kyle and then video showing that same guy chasing Kyle. Get fucking real. You might be the dumbest person in this entire comment section, great job.",
">another armed individual felt wasn’t a threat and turned his back to. \n\nThis does not mean that the individual wasn't a threat after that fact. Rosenbaum is on video chasing Rittenhouse, throwing things with him, and attempting to grab his rifle. You've managed to ignore that entire fact. \n\n>and had Kyle not had a gun, I have no doubt we wouldn’t be hearing about this today.\n\nThis is irrelevant to the case. There so many what-ifs that would have changed the situation. We could spend days coming up with random hypothetical situations. \n\n>kill and maim others that tried to stop him.\n\nThis is the part you're missing. It's not your job to chase after someone and attack them. That makes you the aggressor, which then in turn means if they fight back it's self defense.\n\n>He shot and killed multiple people. Clearly the people around felt that his actions were posing a threat and he needed to be stopped, otherwise they wouldn’t have pursued him and tried bring him to justice.\n\nHe didn't shoot multiple people before the others decided to pursue him. He shot one person who was attacking him when he was cornered. Vigilantism is not justice.",
"Yawn. Yeah, just coincidence they all posed for a dozen photos with that hand symbol. \n\nSure it started off as a 4chan joke but it actually got co opted by the hick racists. Just like Q anon was a joke but those people waiting for Kennedy believed it.\n\nUnless you want to explain why they were doing? “To piss off the libs?” Cool, so kill a couple people then party with a terrorist group and try to piss off people by jestly pretending to be racist which would make him a piece of shit.",
"Most people in the US are fascist. Shit, all modern capitalists are fascists. The goal of capitalism is fascism. You might not know this because you are a fascist so your education is clearly sparse, but fascism is corporatism is capitalism. It's all the same thing. \n\n\nNothing has been cheapened by calling people fascist that are fascist. There are just a lot of fascists. You're one of them.",
"Yeah you absolutely DESTROYED that strawman you just made.",
"I'm not a man, and again, that is the second version of his story. The first version was in line with the NPR article. After he told that story on the stand, the defense showed photos and videos contradicting it, and he changed the story, hence the issues for the prosecution. \n\n\nI don't see how you could possibly be having such a hard time comprehending a relatively simple chain of events.",
"It's entertaining seeing you dig your own grave here...",
"Its the overhead shot, this video doesn't include it. Just prior to Rittenhouse being chased by Rosenbaum he runs towards the group. \n\nI'm honestly not invested enough in this to find it for you.",
"On the contrary, just the opposite. You're impressively good at getting things wrong.",
">That's not **how I interpreted** today's drone footage\n\nFTFY",
"Yeah sure. Thats why Grosskreutz probably should have just executed Rittenhouse when Rittenhouse worked the action on his rifle. \n\nGuess he wouldn't have been shot then.",
"And if people weren't running around torching buildings, he probably wouldn't have been there. We can play this game all fucking day.\n\nAt the end of the day you don't have a right to attack someone and not expect them to defend themselves. It doesn't matter what they're holding in the hands, it doesn't matter what they look like, or where they are. The right to self-defense is enshrined into the US Constitution.\n\nFull stop. Period. End of discussion. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.\n\nEveryone that got shot by Kyle could have, instead of attacking him, turned around and walked the fuck away.",
"Oh, so you don't have any evidence of this, you just want to claim such.\n\nHere is what the witness has to say, the witness the *prosecution* called upon.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/vi2yU87HsC4\n\n>Rosenbaum yelled and advanced toward Rittenhouse.\n\nKeep on digging that hole mate! He even points to that overhead view you were talking about! Lol!",
"News Headline: Man dies trying to save drowning infant\n\nRandom redditor: dumbfuck. If he didn’t want his life to be in danger, he should’ve stayed home.",
"Yeah, now people to it to signify that they're against the type of people that declared it/them white supremacist. It has become a meme.",
">But it also illustrates his intent.\n\nNo. No, it does not.",
">and saw this idiot hanging out with other idiots with guns harassing people with them\n\nSurely you're able to link us to that video, right? Right?!",
"Conservatives today would be applauding the British Empire for their oppression of American Revolutionaries. You guys are a fucking joke.",
"And they probably would be if there were evidence of them. Since there's no evidence of any such motive, there's nothing but meaningless speculation.",
"Lol, dude links a report that literally says there’s no proof Rittenhouse said that, then posts an article about the “racist” OK hand gesture. Careful, might sprain something reaching so hard.",
"He could legally join the military, so yeah I think he can protect his community.",
"Yes if I were American. America has already jumped off the bridge.",
"Yeah that obviously happened to. Just Rittenhouse ran himself into that situation. \n\nYou can dig through the 1 trillion bullshit videos on this to find the overhead shot that shows it. I just don't really care that much.",
"In what universe is the person packing up a gun, driving it across state lines, and shooting people you politically disagree with, not the aggressor? \n\n\nIts not like the protestors broke into his room or something, he went out of his way to pick a fight.",
">And if people weren't running around torching buildings, he probably wouldn't have been there. We can play this game all fucking day\n\nNo, we can't. It wasn't his job or responsibility to be there. It's the police's job to stop protesters if they get out of hand. He isn't qualified, needed or trained to do that. He had no reason to be there and him being there resulted in people getting shot at.\n\nHe wanted to play make believe cop. \n\n>At the end of the day you don't have a right to attack someone and not expect them to defend themselves. It doesn't matter what they're holding in the hands, it doesn't matter what they look like, or where they are. The right to self-defense is enshrined into the US Constitution.\n\nThis is all totally irrelevant to what I'm saying. Full stop period. I already said he had a right to defend himself. None of this is a reason he was there that day. \n\nI mean, fuck the 2nd amendment either way IMO it's outdated and dumb but once he was being aimed at he had a right to defend himself, like I've already said.\n\n>Everyone that got shot by Kyle could have, instead of attacking him, turned around and walked the fuck away.\n\nPretty hard to walk away when you're dead.",
"Pretty sure if a woman goes to a dangerous part of town while dressed sexy she can still shoot her attacker in self defense.",
"I'm not conservative.\n\nIt's funny because you think the protests that led to the revolution were acceptable to the british government.",
"Of course, being pro riots is dumb. But, lots of dumb in the world.",
"He was being chased after already killing someone. Chasing a murderer is pretty reasonable.",
"I mean.. he was out part of a self described militia. I'm willing to bet that we have differing opinions of the sanity in general of militias.",
"He literally didn’t shoot first; someone fired a handgun in the air when he was first being chased. Imagine running away from harm, from multiple people including someone twice your size, and you hear a gunshot behind you… would you be in fear for your life?",
"Yeah, ok. I think I’m getting off this crazy train. Seriously, I’d say you’re just a crazy commie that hates the US and all that it stands for. But I wish you the best.",
"\"There's a trillion bullshit videos on this to find the overhead shot that shows it\"\n\nNo, there's not, you know it and that's why you can't produce one. Keep evening though, it suits you well.",
"Stop propagating lies",
"I’ve never seen it so sure, post it. I didn’t do research on the guy so I have no idea if he’s racist or not and therefore I have no opinion on it one way or the other. I’m saying that the article above isn’t going to persuade anyone who doesn’t already have it in their head that he’s a racist white supremacist. \n\nAlso the people he shot weren’t even of color, and it was in self defense, so why is there a huge focus on him being racist or not?",
"This was always a politically motivated trial. I'm sure the prosecutors have hated every minute of their life pursuing it.",
"Not really because if you are inciting; it is not self defense. You would need to be doing nothing threatening, then get attacked, and have your life at risk",
">In what universe is the person packing up a gun, driving it across state lines, and shooting people you politically disagree with, not the aggressor?\n\nHe didn't pack up a gun (he got it while there), 'driving across state lines' is disingenuous, as he lived 20 minutes from there, and 'shooting people he disagreed with' wasn't his main motive; defending himself was.\n\n>Its not like the protestors broke into his room or something, he went out of his way to pick a fight.\n\nSame can be said for the rioters attacking him...\n\nYou're not even worth my reply, but here I am...",
"What the US stands for today? Yea. Because the US today is fascist.",
"Bro this site was showing nothing but the shooting when it happened and people were condemning the kid. Anyone who spoke out in his defense was banned. It happened",
"You say he drove 20 minutes like that somehow makes it better? You aren't \"defending\" yourself if you are getting in the car and driving 15 miles out of the way.",
">You can also say if Kyle wasn't there with an assault rifle intending to use it, they'd be alive....\n\nTrue, but I'm personally not too sure if he 'intended to use it': Just because he had an AR-15, doesn't mean he was out to kill people.\n\nIf was there to defend an objective against rioters (which to my knowledge is the reason he was there with a gun), he needed something to make the rioters think twice. I personally don't see anything wrong with that.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>We need police reform and gun control.\n\nVery true.",
"The same judge that would not allow those he killed to be called “victims”. But could be called looters and rioters (rather than protesters). Hardly impartial.",
"Not moot legally. But certainly by common sense.",
"Ah, so your totally fine with tru p supporters killing black protestors. Cool. Dude.",
"I mean he’s under oath.",
"You mean he was pointing the gun at the guy who had just jump-kicked him in the head? And then didn't consider him a threat anymore, so didn't keep on shooting?\n\nCome on, at least paint the full picture when you're claiming things...",
"The people there did not see or know what happened, there was no basis of a threat, just word of mouth. Attacking someone for an imagined threat is not legal. This info was presented in court.",
"The 17 year old girl. Who walked. Into my bikers club was a pussy looking to act tough so we raped her. She totally deserves it for doing so.",
"Attack doesn't mean kill. If they killed him, yes, that's murder. I'm not understanding the miscommunication here. They assaulted him. He's obviously very much alive.",
"I have never seen so much cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics in my life. Pretty indifferent to him as a person, but it’s hilarious to me how about a year ago we had the same camp of people angrily talk about justice not being served and the system being rigged, now calling for him to be wrongly accused of a crime he didn’t commit because it fits their desires. \n\nIt would be funny if it wasn’t so sad",
"The specific source that took the video that says “a voice that sounds like Rittenhouse” that’s not leading at all. And you said “racist hand” symbol referring to the OK sign. It’s shroedinger’s hand symbol. May or may not be racist depending on how leftist perceive you. But you’re surely not reaching are you?",
"lol, you actually had a point?",
"Or an easy way to lose a trial.",
">And speaks to why Grosskreutz drew his weapon.\n\nIt has literally nothing to do with it because he want even aware of it\n\n>Rittenhouse's self-defense argument hinges on the context of months of BLM protests so a few minutes counts as the sam\n\nNo.. It doesnt. Not legally and not morally either. Its totally irrelevant.\n\n>He approached Rittenhouse becuse he heard gunshots and that people had been killed and there was Rittenhouse with a rifle in the vicinity. \n\nNope.",
"> What is the headline, stated by NPR, on their Twitter, about the position of Gauge’s hands.\n\nHere is the title: \n> \"Gaige Grosskreutz, shot by Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha, takes the stand at his trial\"\n\nIt says nothing about hand position.\n\nHere is the first paragraph of the article, included in the top of the Twitter post: \n> \"Gaige Grosskreutz, the only person who survived being shot by Kyle Rittenhouse last year at a chaotic demonstration in Kenosha, Wis., took the stand at Rittenhouse's homicide trial.\"\n\nIt says nothing about hand position.\n\nYou may be getting hung up on the editing that was done to fit a piece of the article's second paragraph into the Twitter post. Here's what was posted, per the screenshot you linked to: \n> \"He acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, but that his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse.\"\n\nIt's pretty clear from that sentence that the hand position is something Grosskreutz \"acknowledged\", not a statement of fact. Let's parse this sentence: \n * \"He acknowledged that (he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020), but that (his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse).\" \ni.e., \n * \"He acknowledged that (A), but that (B).\" \ni.e., that sentence is pretty unambiguously stating that both of those are things Grosskreutz said and not objective facts.\n\nIn particular, note the difference between: \n * \"He acknowledged A, **but** B.\" \nand \n * \"He acknowledged A, **but that** B.\" \nThe first of those is stating that B is an objective fact; the second of those is stating that B is something else the subject of the sentence is acknowledging. Despite their similarity, the two sentences mean very different things.\n\nBecause of that potential for misunderstanding, though, I agree that their [new phrasing](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha) is better and clearer: \n * \"In three hours of dramatic testimony Monday, Grosskreutz, 27, acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, **but said that** his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him and that he feared for his life.\"\n\nAdding \"said\" there doesn't change the meaning of the sentence, but it emphasizes how what follows is still according to the subject of the sentence. \n That makes the sentence clearer and harder to misunderstand, so even though it doesn't change the meaning at all it's a good change to the wording.",
"Hey if you don’t get it I don’t know what to tell you. Let’s not waste anymore time taking to eachother.",
"Maybe you should be actively lobbying against laws you're against, though good luck trying to find people who agree you should not be allowed to defend yourself.\n\n\"I don't care it was technically ok, because I have my own bias in this\" - Well played: Your post really is retarded.",
"I will keep evening. \n\nAgain, its just not worth my time and the people in these threads are always dumbasses who have already made their mind. Its in the big compilation video that shows several angles simultaneously. I believe it was made by the defense. Rittenhouse ends up next to Rosenbaum because he ran towards him initially.",
"> Considering that NPR published an article stating that Grosskreutz had his arms raised when Kyle shot him\n\nYou've misunderstood the article. To be fair, the original wording was a little tricky.\n\nEveryone is getting hung up on the [Twitter version](https://www.reddit.com/r/libertarianmeme/comments/qpns7g/about_an_hour_after_gaige_geosskreutz_for_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) of the second paragraph of the [article](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha). Here's what was posted: \n> \"He acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, but that his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse.\"\n\nIt's pretty clear from that sentence that the hand position is something Grosskreutz \"acknowledged\", not a statement of fact. Let's parse this sentence: \n * \"He acknowledged that (he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020), but that (his hands were raised when he was shot by Rittenhouse).\" \ni.e., \n * \"He acknowledged that (A), but that (B).\" \ni.e., that sentence is pretty unambiguously stating that both of those are things Grosskreutz said and not objective facts.\n\nIn particular, note the difference between: \n * \"He acknowledged A, **but** B.\" \nand \n * \"He acknowledged A, **but that** B.\" \nThe first of those is stating that B is an objective fact; the second of those is stating that B is something else the subject of the sentence is acknowledging. Despite their similarity, the two sentences mean very different things.\n\nBecause of that potential for misunderstanding, though, I agree that their [new phrasing](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha) is better and clearer: \n * \"In three hours of dramatic testimony Monday, Grosskreutz, 27, acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, **but said that** his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him and that he feared for his life.\"\n\nAdding \"said\" there doesn't change the meaning of the sentence, but it emphasizes how what follows is still according to the subject of the sentence. \n That makes the sentence clearer and harder to misunderstand, so even though it doesn't change the meaning at all it's a good change to the wording.",
"True, and that brings me back to my earlier comment: I'm glad I'm not on the jury.",
"Sorry for the second reply here.\n\n> We'll were both speculating here so we wont know till it happens.\n\nYep, that's kinda what Reddit does, discussion and speculation. Oh, and cat videos.\n\nWhy not speculate about what'll happen if Rittenhouse is \"not guilty?\"",
"Did the judge graduate high school? It's plain fucking English!",
"Yep youre super oppressed I agree bro",
"If things were so clear-cut, then why isn't prosecution using that angle to convict Kyle? Why is their case in shambles just from a single testimony when there's so much video evidence that *supposedly* paints Kyle as a murderer? That's because you don't know how the situation is really like, and you've fallen for the mob trying to crucify him.\n\nKyle killed a mentally unstable person who had threatened him, chased him for two blocks, attacked Kyle with an unknown bag, and even tried to take his gun. Even if Kyle had intentionally murdered Rosenbaum in cold blood, you're not allowed to attack someone fleeing because things are never as clear-cut as you imagine.\n\nImagine Gaige chases Kyle and they meet a group of militia who have no idea what happened. Gaige, without noticing the militia, advances upon Kyle to disarm him and points his gun at him while he's on the floor. What would be the response of the militia? This is why self-defense is only a thing when your life is *immediately* threatened. Once Kyle ran away, nobody had a reasonable justification to *attack* him.\n\nChasing a murderer is reasonable, attacking and pointing your gun at him isn't because you're not a cop. Just because Kyle killed someone doesn't mean his right to live is forfeit because citizens aren't judges, juries, or executioners.",
"And explain how this is different than conservatives mouthing off about George Floyd’s history of his arrest record and drug use? Even if Rittenhouse was a racist, he still has the right to self defense. But it doesn’t matter, cause useful idiots like you will still clamor for their team, regardless of the facts.",
"Probably.",
"And those countries also have problems with violence too via knives and other means of attack no?\n\nMy issue is that it's not the guns themselves that are the issue. We have a cultural problem that's driving this.",
"That's the point isn't it. Was there ever a crowd/mob of people that focused their effort and anger on destroying a target that night, like Jan 6, or was there a bunch of theft and vandalism done under cover of the protests because police were busy elsewhere?\n\nPutting up monetary damages is pretty misleading.\n\nAnd calling everyone you don't like rioters is the problem and if we don't start being honest about that we are pretty doomed. You either participated in a crime or you didn't.",
"Why is that vague? This applies if a or b. How in the hell is it vague? \n\nDo you have problems reading credit card contracts too?",
"Tell the judge quoting off that are laws are based on the Bible? No thanks.",
"He just saw that guy shoot another person right infront of him and then pointed the weapon at him. I guess he just has to let KR point a gun at him and he has no self defense rights when he very much believed he was an active shooter and was legally trying to subdue him. \n\nFor people who love to cry about self defense, you sure seem to not know about the reasonable belief part of it and all the other parts it seems.",
"Surely you understand that the average person would consider open carrying a threatening act, right?",
"I never said anything about being oppressed, mods power trip every day, I simply recalled what happened on the site when the shooting occurred. Now reddit is being FORCED to accept the facts of the case and most simply can't admit they were wrong.",
"I'm from Portugal, not France - we have similar systems, though PT is much smaller and poorer than FR.\n\nYet, you can go to one of our hospitals and get an operation and did not have to sell your home.\n\nThe issue, as you point out, is access. If you have money, you have that everywhere - including africa. In Luanda - Angola, there are some clinics with very high grade equipment. And prices. A poor person never sees the inside of one, except as a janitor.\n\nAs for the utilitarian argument, totally true - even for entrepreneurs. How many people with an idea in the states, or wishing to change profession and study, do not risk it because they would be unable to afford healthcare on their own and would leave their family uncovered? In the UE it is not a factor.\n\nWe also end university NOT owing a fortune. This also gives you options in life.\n\nI am very sorry about the US, the potential, and its like they turned some hatred inside to their own people.\n\nAs for the current polarization, it seems... abnormal. Being from the other party (more how democrats see republicans, but goes both ways) now means you have original sin, you are morally wrong and irretrievable. You are an enemy to break.\n\nConsider even the problem of democracy. Its entire basis is that the losing side accepts the legitimacy to rule of the other side, and both accept the rules of the game and follow them.\n\nRight now, is this the case? The other side winning is being painted as allowing Hitler to gain power.\n\nCan it be said that there is a state of democracy or legitimacy? When republicans won, the democrats did not accept their victory; and now the democrats are offended that the republicans do not accept theirs. The level of hypocrisy on both sides is amazing.\n\nAlso, if the other side is a fundamental threat, doesn't it justify to break the law to keep them off power? And to harm them, destroy their jobs and livelihoods and public presence?",
"..still waiting",
"Pretend story to make RH look like a victim doesn't change what actually happened. Move on. It was a terrible place for a 17 y/o with a gun to go. The destruction of property was an issue for insurance payouts, not daycare aged militias.",
"Yep, but not if she is literally telling everyone to rape her. \n\nYou know, like I said.",
"It's just the European servile mindset. The government allows rioters to burn down a city and you vilify the good Samaritans who try to fix it. Our government strives to make us as compliant as you.",
"Law is easy. Judge is dumb.",
"Translation:\n\nI don't have the video, I don't have any evidence to prove my claim. So in the absence of that evidence rather than admit you are correct I will suggest I simply don't have the energy to find that which does not exist and will run away to my safe space so I can avoid admitting I was wrong and that Rosenbaum approached and lunged at Rittenhouses gun.",
"But it did save his life.",
"What if I perceive someone to be actively harming others with a weapon?",
"When this first happened most people saw a gun, a teenager who drove hours to larp seal team 6, a crowd of people, and multiple dead, it’s not that crazy to have connected those dots back then and still fuck Kyle Rittenhouse for going to a state that he didn’t live in to agitate. But he’s not criminally liable, that’s obvious now, most reasonable people that aren’t Reddit shitlords can accept that and move on with their lives.",
"I think the problem is that people take \"justified self defense\" to mean that the shooter was morally in the right. \n\nIf Grosskruetz had killed Rittenhouse, and claimed in his defense that he believed Kyle to be an active shooter. Grosskreutz probably walks too.",
"He went to a bar with his mom, people there approached him. He didn’t go “hang out with proud boys”. The spin you’re imparting is fucking wild. \n\nAnd the prosecution just had their star witness admit that he raised his gun on Rittenhouse first. You know, the video we’re commenting on? So I don’t think you can give the prosecution that much value. And guess what? The video was not admitted as evidence because there’s no proof of him saying that. Do you understand how the law works? \n\nIt’s not propaganda when the court literally just proved self defense you dumb fuck.",
"You must not speak my language. \n\nWhat I had actually said was : \n\n\"I'm not wasting my time searching for videos to appease dumbasses who are just here to argue their side regardless\". \n\nNothing i posted on video here would sway you, why would I waste our time? This'll be my last response, have a great day👍",
"Actually, he was there to defend businesses from being destroyed & to offer medical attention to those in need. Videos from the throughout the night show him behaving politely, even offering/administering medical aid to \"protesters\" who'd been hurt. In fact, the first shooting happened because he extinguished a dumpster fire and a sex offender who'd threatened his life ON CAMERA earlier in the night, chased & attacked him. \n\nThese are facts, he was not there to cause trouble. But yeah, continue to villify him because he \"crossed state lines\". People saw what they wanted to see and they still do. That's why we have a justice system that relies on facts & evidence.",
"Yeah but the headlines read \"Man stabbed in pub fight\" not \"10 killed and 11 injured in brutal automatic knife attack\". It's kinda not the same thing.",
"> That’s not what escalation means\n\nDefine it and we'll see who's using it correctly. ;-)",
"He spent the entire night up until being attacked being friendly and helpful, so I'd say his intentions were good.",
"Explain how shooting and killing people who did not shoot you is not an escalation of force. Take it slow. I'm going to enjoy the show. ;-)",
"Guns are what makes you tough though everyone knows that. Obviously Kyle was tougher than them and that's why he shouldn't be found guilty.",
"You sure about that?\n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-55970568.amp\n\nI mean for fucks sake, they're banning kitchen knives now. Where does the madness end? Everyone gets a spork and that's it?",
"Playing cop/deputy/vigilantie whatever is not sound judgement. You can disagree but he absolutely was there trying to be an extra man with a gun defending the city right? He was there to stop all the \"burning and looting\" and decided he was going to take matter into his own hands. Two people dead and he is on trial for murder.\n\nThe soundest of judgement!\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>His past actions might make him a POS, but they have no bearing on thecase. And the reason people are bringing up the felonious pasts of thepeople he shot is in reaction to a year of this:\n\nSo someone else makes a bad argument, you have to make one too? And also, someone who brags about wanting to shoot people, and goes and gets a weapon illegally and plays vigilante is someone on the same planet as some guy's previous sex conviction? How exactly is that relevant to him allegedly trying to assault someone and take their weapon? Is there prior history of that? No? So it's not relevant.\n\nThe point of someone making that case is they just want to dehumanized him to make it easier to accept their version of reality. We have no idea if he was trying to take his rifle. He never touched it. That's an assumption. The truth is we really don't know what transpired between them until the final seconds. Was it a justified shooting? Maybe? Maybe not. But if the dude's prior criminal history is relevant. You can bet your ass him assaulting a teenage girl is relevant as fuck too.",
"There's tons of reasons and they don't all include killing you with it. Regardless of what a user \"Must assume\" when being disarmed, that's not what's being determined when being chased by multiple people you managed to piss off. I will admit though, that in the case of someone that guy actually saying it renders actual intent moot, like in the situation you mentioned. Is this Rittenhouse v Rosenbaum, though?\n\nHe wasn't the only guy attempting to disarm him, he was antagonizing other people there and exhibiting himself as a threat by waving a gun around. It's not like he earned their ire because he was just casually walking around minding his own business when he was beset by an angry mob. Don't paint him as an innocent actor, he very much wasn't - even by his own admission. We're not talking about a trained military man policing his assigned area. He was a kid acting tough who should've been arrested. He goaded others into action and was in turn made to react. This was unguided escalation by multiple parties that should all go to prison.",
"That's a pretty fancy way to say \"I don't have any such videos available because they don't exist outside my claims\", somebody is going to charge me with murder soon because you keep evading and continue to get murdered on this. \n\nKeep on running! 🐔",
"I guess I don't understand why would the jury would struggle with imaginary motives?",
"> Is chasing someone down and pointing a gun at them not an escalation then? \n\nAn armed person who shot and killed two others? No, I don't see how it is. \nCare to explain?",
"> How about a person beat him before he touched them? \n\nNobody touched him before he killed someone.",
"Pointing a weapon at someone is a crime. Nothing he could have done? Really? Do you people even think?",
">unless you really just want to be pedantic. Like, hey I saw Rittenhouse stepped up on a curb while he was running. That was an escalation too.",
"I’m not wrong, but please tell me more about how active shooters are able to run around shooting people but no one is able to do anything unless the shooter happens to be next to them. Your response is just embarrassing. Please stop from posting anything this foolish again.",
"Yes, I noticed you couldn't substantively respond. ;-)",
"> Define it and we'll see who's using it correctly. ;-)\n\nToo scared to even try, lol. That's exactly what I thought.",
"> No.. It doesnt. Not legally and not morally either. Its totally irrelevant.\n\nYeah it does. Or at least if you don't want to be a morally bankrupt hypocrite of the highest order.\n\n>He approached Rittenhouse becuse he heard gunshots and that people had been killed and there was Rittenhouse with a rifle in the vicinity.\n\n>Nope.\n\nThat's his testimony. Being a snowflake about it doesn't change it",
"ped·ant\n/ˈpednt/\nnoun\na person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules",
"Your example makes no sense. If a woman literally asks for rape, it isn't even rape. Rape has to be non consensual. You're basically suggesting a woman initiate sex, then murder the man and claim rape. Obviously not self defense.",
"You realize those happened in 5 separate towns, right? That wasn't one person attacking a crowd of people. I say again, it's not the same thing.",
"It only matters at the \"moment of truth\"..proximate cause is really only considered in civil cases.",
"That's not what I asked, but I guess it will do. I'll let you get back to shooting children.",
"If he wouldn't have actively followed KR (who already said he was going to the police, and was actively trying to disengage), he wouldn't have had the gun pointed at him. Just believing someone is an active shooter is not enough to act on, you know that, right? Or are you that thick?\n\nLet's see how much YOU know about the definition of self defense when the jury doesn't convict him.",
"Mens rea...the state of mind...and he was in the state of mind that he was going to die. Malice aforethought is not a consideration in self defense.",
"You're right, it's *sooooo* much better when it's separate events. \n\nYou completely missed the point that the guns aren't the problem. The culture is the problem.",
"Who?",
"But he wasnt",
"You have created quite the twisted ficticious scenario...that in no way applies to this reality",
"🤣🤣🤣",
"No, you're defending yourself when you're being actively chased, hit over the head with a skateboard, and have a gun pointed at you.\n\nAgain, I should not have replied to your retarded post. I'll take some countermeasures now, and will just block you :-)",
"Hard to say if it will be. Everything is case by case.",
"Being a deterrence isn't looking for a fight it's to prevent the fight in the first place.",
"Ah so you’re the latter category of Reddit shitlords who do joker monologues in the comment section to justify some of the shittiest ideas I’ve ever heard. I’m out, enjoy the divorce.",
"Friendly tip! Choke to death on my nuts",
"Because I have morals and ethics that extend further than a bunch of shit some crusty old men wrote down? Is it really so hard for you to understand that sometimes the law is not correct? Something being legal doesn't make it good and something being illegal doesn't make it bad. Do you truly believe the us criminal justice system to be so infallible?",
"https://www.wpr.org/prosecutors-ask-court-ban-kyle-rittenhouse-going-bars-associating-proud-boys\n\nYou’re aware that upwards of 1/5 of the lynchings performed by the KKK were white people, right? Dude went to a protest about a couple racists shooting a Black dude with the clear hope of shooting some BLM protestors. Then followed it up by posting bond, partying with a “free as fuck” shirt with a terrorist organization with ties to white supremacy while clearing posing with the co-opted racist hand signal.",
"Original was taken down due to being massively demonstrably untrue: https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/qq23xy/npr_falsely_claims_grosskreutz_had_his_hands/",
"I'm giving an example of how surrounding details *do* matter in general.",
"100 percent. Reading that article definitely portrays Grosskreutz as a hero and victim. The video and his own testimony says otherwise.",
"My position is summed up as: \nWhen deciding a case on the facts of self-defence, the intentions of the aggressor and defender should be part of those facts. \nYou disagree with that and have focused in on motives as a negative only. \nMy comment about not wanting to be on the jury is because I'd convict Kyle based on the videos I saw at the time. For me to be impartial and possibly vote not guilty would be difficult for me. It's not something I'd want to do. \nI hope that clears things up.",
"Both a and b do not apply. Therefore this section does not apply. \n\n\nDoes that mean the whole law does not apply? \n\n\nThe lawyers and judge are not sure about it. That is what makes it vague.",
"So...\n\n1. NPR didn't lie because they are clearly reporting what Grosskreutz testified.\n\n2. Do you have any proof that they took down the original, because as far as I can tell the article is still up and still contains NPR not lying.",
"Your response is kind of my point, though.\n\nHe was a child that brought a gun to a riot in the middle of the night. Someone died as a result of that.\n\nYet this gets discussed as though he was just peacefully walking home with a rifle after a long day of target shooting when he was attacked and had no choice but to defend himself.\n\nIs it murder, though? I don’t know.\n\nWhat I do know is that even the most bitter political opponents should want to stop kids from bringing guns to protests and riots.\n\nI think it’s pretty telling when one of those sides has no apparent interest in discouraging that kind of behavior.",
"It’s not worth talking to that guy. Go through his profile and you’ll see that he’s either become a massive troll, or is so stubborn that he refuses to actually change his opinion.",
"More: https://notthebee.com/article/the-prosecutions-star-witness-against-kyle-rittenhouse-admitted-he-got-shot-after-pulling-a-gun-here-was-the-medias-insane-spin-on-that-testimony?fbclid=IwAR17r3AnxXIJC0v21g4vJ0XMVrUeWe0zDUqQiuVX9-c6wmVvGHq4EvWlYX4",
"How did you read or and get and from that?",
"Joker monologue? What are you on about? Those are facts and evidence from the case.\n\nIt is reality, he will not be convicted of murder. Deal with it.",
"BURYING THE LEDE!!! Do you not read any of my other replies to you?? They buried the lede, which is dishonest journalism. The selected portion of the article which they chose to highlight in their tweet/Facebook post is all that most people will ever take the time to read, and thus come away with a very different conclusion than what the minority of people who actually read the whole article or watch the video for themselves will learn. Please try to understand what burying the lede is!",
"Your rage is keeping you from making any kind of real argument. Really not trying to be an asshole, but my best advice is to take a break and simmer down a bit. Think about what a rant like the rant you just wrote actually accomplishes. I guess what I’m trying to say, is, maybe you should practice a little deescalation yourself.",
"Ok groomer",
"Doesn’t matter what you say, the facts point to self defense. You can say he went there to start trouble or whatever you want. The fact is, he didn’t shoot anybody or anything until he was attacked. You play it off as some right wing fantasy. How about this? Don’t attack people with guns if you don’t want to get shot. That’s not political at all, and is the facts of the case. Even if he was racist, like I said, he still had a right to defend himself. Cry about it all you want, spin it however you want, but Rittenhouse will walk. You’ll cry and whine about it. Cope",
"I read that law. \n\n\n violation of s. 941.28 \n\n\nb would be: \n\n\nnot in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 \n\n\nneither of those are true. Therefore that section does not apply.",
"NPR posted that article to Facebook 12:45PM EST which is before Grosskreutz cross-examination. There was no \"lede\" to bury at the time of posting.",
"Its got to be rough. I'm sure he's not a fan of what happened either. I really doubt he wanted to kill anyone or he probably would've shot people not attacking him. He took lives and now people are holding him in high regard, but he couldnt even look at the autopsy photos today.",
"That's what the police are for, not armed vigilantes.",
"Is there an age requirement on the second amendment?",
"Turn on a tv. Read about the ICE detention centers and the federal courthouse in Seattle. You’re too stupid to talk to.",
"Again you are operating from a biased side. Technically, the protesters started the engagement by protesting. Their protests had resulted in destruction of some businesses and while the matter they were protesting my be important (again a subjective opinion), that doesnt mean everyone agrees on how they should protest. Kyle was there to protect “his community” and he wouldnt have been there had there not been protests. It doesnt matter if you agree with that or not. Many protesters drove far, some even farther than kyle. Grosskreutz drove 40 miles, does that mean he engaged kyle and the others protecting businesses? It sounds like your real issue here is that kyle disagrees with your politics\n\nHad any of the protesters stayed at home, this never would have happened. You see how it’s easy to say that stuff in hindsight but not a practical application in reality? Do you also see that deciding not to stay home has no relevance in guilt or innocence in this case?",
"To open carry a rifle? Yeah, there's an age limit. Voting is a right but not until you're 18. I know hunting laws are different but kids can't just roam the streets with AR-15s.",
">There's tons of reasons and they don't all include killing you with it.\n\nNot really. Not when you haven't been using that weapon in a threatening way. As of yet, there's no evidence that Rittenhouse did antagonise or threaten to antagonise people with his weapon. He pissed people off, but from what the testimonies and videos show, it seems that Rosenbaum was pissed off with Rittenhouse because he thought Rittenhouse had put out a dumpster fire. Hardly antagonistic behaviour.\n\nWhen you're actively trying to run away from someone chasing after you (which is what happened with Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum) and that person is trying to disarm you, then it's a very rational assumption to make.\n\n>Don't paint him as an innocent actor\n\nI wasn't. I'm just trying to parse out an understanding of what happened that night. I have no preconceived notions of Rittenhouse as either saint or sinner. I'm just making judgements based on what I've read about that night of events. From what I can tell, Rittenhouse acted incredibly recklessly and though each person he killed was in self defence, the actions of that night were ultimately a consequence of his deeply idiotic decision to bring a weapon to the protests that night.\n\nBut on the other side of things, the people who he killed were not innocent either. At worst they were people who threatened to kill him and even raised a gun to him, as OP's video shows. At best they were unbelievably foolish for attacking and attempting to disarm someone with a loaded weapon. I know that's speaking ill of the dead, but it doesn't make it any less true.",
"Didn't John Lennon literally confess to beating his wife in a book?",
"Is that all you hope for after two innocent people are dead? Don't forget the Mckowsky's in Utah pointing their guns at protestors? They now have guns despite the order not to.",
"Yep, and that's why it's so asinine to say Rittenhouse is a victim. He went into this situation looking to get into a fight. If he was there to render aid, there wouldn't have been a weapon. \n\nHe picked a fight and now he gets to act surprised when people fought back. I don't think so. He's not some innocent little kid that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is just like those idiotic stand your ground laws in Florida where Zimmerman was able to stalk a teen, claim he was being accosted, then kill him and get set free.\n\nYou see the videos of this douche hanging out with the proud boys, yuking it up after the fact. He was probably jacking off just waiting for the chance to shoot someone. \n\nNope, he may get set free, but you are a straight up liar if you tell me you think he didn't intend for exactly this to happen that night. The system is corrupt and all of you assholes are the problem.",
"not the point that i want to support or represent",
"If you, an unarmed person, rush an armed person to assault them because they pointed their gun at you, I think it's literally a legal requirement that the state pay for a headstone calling you a retard. So that everyone knows forever that you died doing something truly retarded.",
"I’m sorry but I don’t believe that claim. Are you talking about police at demonstrations or the demonstrators themselves? The former is a meaningless point and the latter I don’t believe. [This](https://everytownresearch.org/report/armed-assembly-guns-demonstrations-and-political-violence-in-america/) study seems to suggest the opposite of what you claim.\n\nNow, this isn’t to say you are wrong. I think part of a reasonable trial of Rittenhouse would include arguments on whether what he did could reasonably be construed as provocation. I’m more inclined to take the view that “protecting” property that isn’t yours while openly carrying a rifle carries an inherent threat with it, but I know that’s my own bias. I’m open to being convinced wrong, but you have to do better than claiming armed protestors are just as provocative as unarmed protestors.",
"Lol. \n\n>and that you can't ever chase them off if they start antagonizing you - then you need to stop lying and pretending you are anything but an open right wing lunatic.\n\nThat’s not a fact dumb fuck. The fact is he was attacked, he didn’t antagonize anyone. He was literally putting out a fire started by rioters when he was attacked you dumb fuck. This is your bias in action. When you can’t even accept facts of the case without trying to spin it to make you look good. Not right wing, nice try though. Even lefties are all over this thread saying he’s innocent and it was self defense. Only delusional retards try to argue that fact. \n\n>You're a stupid fuck, kid. People are dead and all you can do is repeat right wing buzzwords and use them to try and troll. You have a pathetic little life and I honestly do think you're trash. Have a good rest of your day, garbage person.\n\nYeah, a child rapist is dead. When you’re more worried about a child rapist being killed after attacking somebody, then you are a “right wing” minor defending himself after getting attacked by said child rapist, I literally can’t make you out to be more of a piece of shit than that. I can’t even make up something about you that would be more heinous than that. What a worthless piece of trash you are. Fucking waste of oxygen. \n\nAnd guess what? Rittenhouse will still walk, and you’ll still cry about a “right wing conspiracy”. Seek mental help.",
"$50 says u/mehoff88 is either lily white or has family connections in some backwater one-light town.",
"Its 100% legal for someone to rush someone they believe is an active shooter are you fucking serious? And yes REASONABLE belief is enshrined in the law. A reasonable person could have viewed this guy as running around shooting people. Hence why the witness was never charged. Your legal opinions are trash. I guess OJ didn't kill his wife since he got aquitted too right? A state not being able to prove guilt is not an exoneration. Especially since the judge hamstringed the prosecution so badly.",
"You're on one of the most politically poisoned sites on the internet and you're still surprised when the lefty mobs deny reality despite having evidence shoved in their faces. Quit expecting anything less than the lowest of the low from these people.",
"Lets not pretend the retards weren't out that night on both sides. OP said nothing he could have done could have justified it. And that is simply ridiculous.",
"It’s on video. Stop acting like a 9-11 truther and face reality.",
"You know in movies where the bad boss rules with fear and an iron fist, and then at the end when they get defeated and in their weakened state the goons/hounds/faceless minions tear them to shreds? That's what it's going to look like when the US starts slipping. NATO is going to pick your bones boyo.",
"overruled",
"We graduated together.",
"I worked 4 years in armed security and still have cop friends. I stand by what I said and they would agree with me.",
"And I have had more experience and can look at the data. I know you are not right as it's not an issue of opinion. Sounds like where you live they have a lot of shitty cops. But that's not typical.",
"Go to law school.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: btw if you *really are* practicing law I’m sure your peers are so happy about how you’re representing the profession.",
"Go to law school.",
"A biker bar full of gang members is also a terrible place for a 17 yo girl to go to, and by your own arguments, if she gets raped. It's her fault and she deserves no sympathy.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: Is this why lawyers are so expensive? Because they spend all their time repeating the same shit to people on Reddit?",
">Yeah it does. Or at least if you don't want to be a morally bankrupt hypocrite of the highest order\n\n🤦♀️K buddy\n\n>That's his testimony. Being a snowflake about it doesn't change it \n\nSee, what I do is take the testimonials and videos into account.. Lol. By his own testimonials combined with the video, at the end of it he has admitted he was aware rittenhouse was not an active shooter, and because we have footage we know he didn't see him shoot rssunbaum.",
"And literally one comment before that I was asked a question which I answered. I literally haven't used that answer to defend police etiquette in the states. I literally put the two in separate paragraphs to make that clear. Literally, it's this failure to grasp basic formal logic that's making anything approaching a good faith conversation in the USA difficult to have.",
"> minor details and rules\n\nLol. He's trying to pretend escalating force to shooting people is irrelevant...in a trial about those shootings. Hilariously stupid. ;-)",
">The left questions narratives consistently as well, they just don't do it based purely on lies and shit that is made up like the right wingers are currently doing.\n\nYeah because the idea that you can choose your gender is completely based in real science and not lies and shit that is made up. Right wingers refuse to take vaccines, left wingers get actual scientists fired, pay for research outcomes, and forcibly inject children with sex hormones for their twisted and depraved enjoyment. I know who I wouldn't want anywhere near my kids.",
"Kenosha, Ill. was no place to be for an armed 17 y/o, and it's certainly not comparable to your biker bar rape fantasy. You're to tone def to debate on the real case, so you keep trolling w/ bullshit.",
"I know that most beat cops are not ready to go through what that kid went through in a mob situation. With 0 backup. They also know they have a badge to stand behind if they did choose lethal force so they use it more freely.",
"Because mob justice isn’t a valid defense in court. The first dude was a pedo who was aggressively threatening his life, the second attacked him with a skateboard, and the third chased him down the street and tried to shoot him. \n\n“He was asking for it, look at what he was ~~wearing~~ carrying!” Is a really really bad argument",
"Can you show me the age requirement in the second amendment?",
"Lol dude, you gotta actually watch the videos and read the statement s. Rittenhouse shit 2-3 seconds after this at rssunbaum because he lunged at him and it seemed like he had backup.\n\nHe didn't just wildly shoot some one because he heard shots. Rssunbaum was attacking him. But even after the first gun shots he still tried to de escalate.",
"A gang member biker bar is no. Place for an armed wannabe punk 17 year old girl.\n\nHow is it trolling, exactly. This is your argument.",
"Which law school did you attend that taught you that?",
"Why not bite the bullet on this to, you've already admitted your fine with trump supporters killing black protestors because they insulted them.",
"Making a false statement to police is a crime, albeit a lesser one than perjury in court. Main point is that the witness was exposed as a liar, and specifically one with an agenda for his own self-interest that was *directly* undermining to his utility as a witness for the prosecution.",
"Sure, let me relax and focus on the importance of the free market of ideas while fascists take over my country and commit political violence against anyone who isn't a straight white Christian male.",
"He did sign and initial statements that he admitted to be false. He admitted all this under cross-examination. He even described how he signed with his off hand because of his wound. LMAO",
"This is the same guy that has said online that he wished he had unload a mag into Kyle.",
"https://www.google.com/search?q=open+carry+wisconsin+age&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sxsrf=AOaemvLHJYju99uZZvOtswdS_RcSDBKbtg%3A1636504024787&ei=2BGLYeqwL_Kzgge_kYCYDA&oq=open+carry+&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIFCAAQkQIyCAgAEIAEELEDMggIABCABBDJAzIECAAQQzIFCAAQgAQyBAgAEEMyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDoECCMQJzoGCAAQBxAeOgUIABCGAzoFCAAQzQI6BwgjEOoCECc6DgguEIAEELEDEMcBEKMCOggILhCxAxCDAToECC4QQzoICAAQyQMQkQI6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDUPIPWMouYL40aARwAHgBgAGJAogB0w-SAQU3LjcuMpgBAKABAbABD8ABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp",
"Go to law school.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: Your comment history is fucking halarious btw. The irony of you posting shit like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/q2tflv/letitia_wright_reportedly_continued_to_share/hfodtig/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) accusing people of basing their thought process on platitudes when lately all you’ve done for 12 hours is spout baseless and evidenceless claims lol. What a joke.",
"Do you not know what the second amendment is? If not you really shouldn't be having a conversation about gun rights in the US.",
">Absolutely fucking amazing. You righties have an absolute obsession with putting people that were killed on trial. Kyle didn't know that. You lose your mind with the reality that this fuckin' kid posed with a racist and openly used a racist symbol - because who cares that he's potentially a racist, no one knew and it didn't matter! - but the background of a victim means vigilante justice is okay.\n\nDoesn’t matter if he knew or didn’t you dumb fuck. He was attacked and defended himself. It just so happens, the dumb fucking idiot who attacked him, was also a child rapist. Nothing of value was lost. Again, nobody fucking cares if he’s racist or not. Being racist doesn’t take away your right to self defense. And that’s exactly what happened. Cry more. \n\n>I will never be okay with some kid shooting people and then looking at their history later and deciding if they were good people or not, no matter how much you genuine psychopaths get off on that idea. You are absolutely everything wrong with the current climate of this country.\n\nLol, dude has a hard on for a kid that made an OK hand gesture, but I’m the psychopath? Making racist hand gestures is more upsetting to you than a child rapist attacking somebody. I’m so glad dumb fucks like you don’t run shit, besides mod some lefty subreddit like a fucking loser. \n\n>The only thing dumber than this is when you seriously tried to say looking at Kyle's motivations are the same as looking into the history of a guy that had a knee on his neck for 9 minutes.\n\nDidn’t say a single thing about motivation you dumb fuck. This is literally you spinning shit like you have been doing. Go back and reread my comment you illiterate fuck. \n\nI’ll just keep repeating the fact that the justice system isn’t fucking retarded like you, and Rittenhouse will walk. And you’ll cry and cry about it and maybe make a sticky in your lefty sub you mod. God damn so many fucking retards in this site I swear.",
"Go to law school.",
"Yeah, the big bad government did a good job of protecting those women and children by killing them.",
"What firearms charges? What did he do with his legally owened firearm that was illegal?",
"> isn’t a valid defense in court\n\nThen\n\n> The first dude was a pedo\n\nLol. I just can't take you morons seriously.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: Look, in [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/qh0sgq/prosecutors_cannot_call_those_shot_by_kyle/hiaktj1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) you don’t even understand English well enough to understand the difference between someone saying “you are claiming” and someone asking “are you claiming?” And I’m supposed to believe you are a practicing lawyer?? Get real lol",
"I know what the second ammendment is. Do you know that states have laws about open carrying a gun? I don't think I made any comments about the second ammendment but I did comment about Wisconsin's law banning people under 18 from open carrying a rifle. He was 17 at the time. I am not against people owning guns, but I am against people breaking a state's open carry law. Two completely different things.",
"Go to law school.\n\nEDIT: Instead of creeping through my post history, you could be applying to law school. But here you go - though, of course, since this still won't let you dox me, you'll claim it's insufficient.\n\nhttps://imgur.com/a/18eFa1Y\n\nEDIT2: Well, applying for the LSATs exam, anyway. Though I'd recommend getting an undergraduate degree before you do that, but I mean, I'm not your life coach here.",
">He was a child that brought a gun to a riot in the middle of the night. Someone died as a result of that.\n\nYes, I would agree with that. Does that make it criminal? If someone brought a gun to a bar (illegal in some states), was attacked by someone, and shot them, would it be fair to say that any possible self-defense claim is invalidated because \"well if he hadn't come out, this wouldn't have happened?\" Not predicting the future and staying home is a bizarre legal standard.\n\nThat it's possible or even probable that you'll get mugged walking through a certain part of town at night doesn't make walking illegal, and it doesn't make mugging them legal even if they should have known better.\n\n>Yet this gets discussed as though he was just peacefully walking home with a rifle after a long day of target shooting when he was attacked and had no choice but to defend himself.\n\nWell I haven't quite seen it downplayed *that* much. But yes, if anyone says that it's a ridiculous interpretation of events.\n\n>What I do know is that even the most bitter political opponents should want to stop kids from bringing guns to protests and riots.\n\nAbsolutely they should, I completely agree with your take. What they should *not* want though, is to completely misinterpret a clearly captured event and misapply the law in order to get a conviction. That is the opposite of an impartial court and *nobody* should be celebrating that. And just as there's only one side has little interest in discouraging the behavior on display, there's another side that has little interest in impartial application of laws. Which is the greater danger?",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: That's not evidence that you're a practicing lawyer, primarily because it's *my document.* Who gave you a copy? It's not much use in any situation all redacted like that, but still it's shady as shit to try to pass off my application as your own. Isn't that illegal?",
"You made a comment about his *rights*. Your rights come from the constitution. He does have a right to bear arms.",
"So you think a 10 year old should be able to carry around a loaded rifle even if it is against a state law?",
"I think it's their constitutional right to do so.",
"Dude, there's video of him grabbing the gun after chasing him down.",
"Well being an idiot with a gun isn’t a crime. And it’s definitely doesn’t lead to manslaughter.",
"Then why can't juveniles vote if it is their constitutional right?",
"You ask about the trolling thing, then assert somehow I'm cool w/ Trump and his Nazi supporters. Your broken sentences. And. Insistences of some 17 y. /O girl being raped. Case. Your 8 month old account. Are you for real?",
"https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5zr9/grosskreutz_admits_that_kyle_rittenhouse_only/hjzimgq?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3",
">Holy fuck, this \"joke\" is like 15 years old, **inaccurate**, and not even funny.\n\nTry reading next time.",
"Because it isn't. 26th Amendment. Cmon dude.",
"The guy you're replying to is so far gone. Don't waste your energy on him.",
"As someone who lives in a country with gun control measures, I disagree that it's inaccurate. It's a simplification sure but that's the point of political humour - it cuts through the bullshit to highlight the absurdity of the situation",
"Is this because his testimony of the events were that Kyle fired first but the gun didn't fire; then the witnesses gun comes out and then Kyle re-racks and shoots him in the arm.\n\nSo would it then be accurate to say no to the question because his gun wasnt pointed at him until Kyle tried to shoot him the first time?\n\nJust trying to put together the answer he gives with both timelines. Which I guess makes sense; Kyle tries shooting you; no shot, you pull out your gun, because you were just shot at, Kyle re-racks and shoot you on the 2ed shot.",
">He's getting off because he was scared.\n\nBTW what other reason would anyone get away with it, that's literally the qualifying factor for self defense, being fearfull that you're going to be inflicted with bodily harm. Lmfao.\n\n>You have the right to bear arms but I can't believe there is no responsibility to check your targets\n\nHe doesn't even know rausenbaum literally was attacking Kyle and the evidence is so clear the court has basically entirely moved past it accepting thst fact.\n\nOh my god its actually hilarious.\n\nThis idiot read \"feared for his life\" and jumped to \"ohh. So I guess if your scared you can just randomly shoot people\"\n\nLmfao.",
"Whatever you say, lobster boy",
">self described militia.\n\nOh? \n\n>differing opinions of the sanity in general of militias.\n\nI think we might have a difference on the purpose/definition of militia as well. \n\nEspecially since that has nothing to do with the line i quoted earlier.",
"So it was fine for people like Rosenbaum to set fires but people like Rittenhouse instigated things. You can say neither should have been there but what did Rittenhouse do to warrant Rosenbaum going after him?",
"Unironically, yes, it *is* sooooo much better that it takes multiple people across five towns in the UK to even come close to what one person with even a semi-automatic firearm can do in the US. And even at that, only 2 people died in the UK incident.\n\nI think you're the one that's missing the point. I'm aware that humans have been, and will continue, to find ways to maim and kill each other for millenia. \n\nThe point is that guns are specifically designed to be efficient, easy-to-use tools for killing, therefore one person with a gun is orders of magnitudes more dangerous than one person, or a few people, with a knife/knives.\n\nThe point is you have a better chance fighting someone with a knife armed with a barstool than you a do if they have a gun. \n\n*Disclaimer, I'm not encouraging engaging in knife fights, the best defense against a knife is distance.*",
"Being there and saying nothing provacative isn't \"picking a fight\" by any definition.",
"Grosskreutz testified he did not witness what happened to Rosenbaum and knew nothing about it.\n\n He also testified he was afraid for RITTENHOUSE'S safety as one guy tried to kick him in the head and then another smashed him with a skateboard and tried to disarm him. Yes, Grosskreutz said that.\n\nThen , when Grosskreutz put his empty hands up Rittenhouse didn't fire and lowered his gun. It could have ended there. But Grosskreutz pulled his gun and pointed it Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz escalated the situation and was was rewarded by getting shot.",
"Go to law school.\n\nEDIT: Your application? Ahahahaha, it's like arguing with a donkey that learned to type. Right, that's an application.",
"Yeah, people let emotions dictate facts too much.\n\nYeah, Kyle is a tool who didn't need to be there, and probably shouldn't have gone there.\n\nBut none of that matters. Someone can scream to the rooftops that no one would have died if Kyle wasn't there, but that doesn't mean that Kyle's actions were not self defense.\n\nAlso a lot of people have this weird idea that because the crowd thought he was an active shooter, that he should have let them attack him. It doesn't matter what the crowd thought. \"Welp skateboard guy thought kyle was an active shooter, doesn't matter if he was or not send kyle to jail.\"\n\nBy that shitty logic, a guy fighting off people trying to take his baby, because someone lied and said he was kidnapping the kid, wouldn't be covered by self defense.",
"So you think it is fine to burn and loot a business because it is \"insured?\" Do you know for sure they are insured? Who pays the deductible? Does their insurance cover 100%? What happens when their rates go up or their insurance policy is not renewed? How long will the business be closed while it rebuilds? What about the employees now out of a job? Did the rioters figure all this out before burning and looting the business?\n\nDo you have a car? I guess you would be fine if I took a hammer to it since it is insured",
"Yes because there are no gun crimes in rural conservative America /s",
"I've never seen any news of shooting at marches supporting the second amendment. So I guess look it up if you don't believe me. I can't find any news stories that claim it has ever happened.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: You called it an application I have no fucking clue with you're on about. If you're gonna steal someone's shit you could at least know what it is. The only application here is the application of facts and evidence to- holy shit I can't even finish that sentence lol. You're not using facts and evidence, you're just shouting things you claim are true and then never backing any of them up. You googled a redacted lawyery image as \"proof\" of anything, are you an idiot? If that's what passes for \"evidence\" in your line of work we are all fucked.",
">legally owened\n\nHe was 17. Explain how he legally owned it please.",
"Go to law school.",
"So now he *didn't* walk up to the cops and they *didn't* let him go?",
"Ah yes, because he just went there. Strapped with a semi automatic rifle and patrolling the streets. Tell me, if I were to show up outside your house and walked around strapped in such a fashion, what are the chances you and your neighbors called the cops. \n\nYou are a liar, mainly to yourself. Consider yourself blocked asshole.",
"Kyle is an active shooter with an illegally owned firearm.\n\nAfter killing 1 person for throwing a plastic bag at him.\n\nHe begins running away as more people try to stop the humans an active shooter. \n\nKyle kills a 2ed person who tried stopping him\n\nThe witness then approaches Kyle immediately after killing the 2ed person with a pistol in one hand in the air and a cell phone in the other.\n\nKyle points his rifle at the witness, racks the gun.\n\nThe witness closes the distance this time with gun pointed and is shot by Kyle.\n\nSeems to me like the witness is a telling the truth. Most people just shoot the active shooter, but even when he had the chance to shoot Kyle after he racked the gun he didnt. \n\nThis whole thread is focused on the fact that an active shooter who had killed two people with an illegally owned gun, shot a 3rd person when that 3rd person pointed a gun without firing at an active shooter; and are going nuts that he said he was shot by the active shooter while holding a gun. \n\nThe video shows him with hands in the air with gun and cell phone in hand. Kyle racks a round with his rifle at the witness after already killing two and shot him. \n\nWhat kind of Alice in Wonderland defense is this where the person killing everyone claims self defense for a failed 3rd homicide after pointing at said victim, clambering another shot, and shooting him? When you are the one that provoked the violence, started the killing, and after people try stopping you, you kill some more and almost kill a 3rd because someone had a gun among the crowd of people you were shooting at.",
"I'm not at all arguing that if we don't have guns then we wouldn't have mass shootings. It's practically a tautology. \n\nWhat I'm arguing is that we would have mass stabbings. Because our culture is broken *to that point*. You're attributing the entirety of our higher homicide rate to the inanimate object and completely overlooking that mass shootings are not where most of our gun deaths come from. You'd still have gang violence, and a gang armed with knives versus a gang armed with knives is still going to have a lot of deaths. A suicidal dad or mom will still effectively finish off the whole family and then themselves. \n\nThis is a cultural issue, not a guns issue.",
"Yeah, it's almost like caucasians get special treatment from cops or something.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: Oh come on, what happened to that character growth I complimented you on earlier?? Did I embarrass you for patting you on the back like a toddler learning to use google for the first time? I'm sowwy. Get fucked and learn to cite your sources idiot.",
"Go to law school.",
"The owners have stated they never asked rittenhouse to do that",
"i dont know, i dont think kyle being there is irrelevant, this was a highly charged scene that was going on for multiple days and he inserted himself into this situation full well knowing what it would be like, the situation got out of hand cause hes a dumb 17yr old kid cosplaying as a vigilante and the only way out for him was to use the gun. While i think he'll walk on murder charges i think he will may get charged with recklessly endangering safety and reckless homicide for rosenbaums death cause those are some of the charges he's facing, we'll see. thanks for being a polite person on reddit and actually having a convo instead of calling me a leftwing copium shill cuck like others have lol",
"Nice pointless deflection. The first dude was convicted of 11 counts of child rape, but more importantly you just skipped over the whole “threatened his life” part that was the start of all the violence.",
">He was there to stop all the \"burning and looting\" and decided he was going to take matter into his own hands. Two people dead and he is on trial for murder.\n\nThis is just such an insane description of the events. He didn't shoot anyone burning and looting. He shot people while defending his own life. Literally every available piece of evidence points to him carrying his rifle for self-defense. If you have evidence of him drawing his weapon on someone rioting and threatening to shoot if they don't stop the destruction, please link that evidence.\n\nThe fact that he's on trial for murder is completely meaningless. When the fucking New York Times of all sources came out with a video breakdown of the events like a day or two after it happened showing that it was a clear case of self-defense, that really should have removed all doubt from anyone's mind.",
"That's a funny way to spell, \"hilarious hypocrisy.\" ;-)",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: Ohhhhh, I see, you commented about \"not writing a legal breif\" (which doesn't fucking explain the reason why you used the word you used, it in fact sugests that you *shouldn't* have which is my point) and then you *deleted* it like a fucking coward because you knew if people saw they'd roast you alive for it. Put the shovel down man, you're just hurting yourself and all of your totally real lawyer friends who are also real and actually practicing and genuinely enjoy being around you for sure. You're making yourself and everyone you associate with look bad.",
"Go to law school.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: You gonna do this all night? You don't have anything else worth doing? No important lawyer cases to work on?",
"Go to law school.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: The more you stubbornly dig in, the more it proves you're just some neckbeard with nothing to do other than parrot the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.",
"The video shows the victim with his arms in the air, just like he said, with his pistol in one hand and cell phone in the other.\n\nSeconds earlier Kyle had just killed someone trying to stop him. And now Kyle is point his rifle at the witness right before racking the gun for another shot.\n\nThen the victim rushes Kyle because he has an active shooter right in front oh him with a rifle he has already killed two people with pointed at him, and he just chambered another round.\n\nSo yes, his pistol was pointed at him at that point and Kyle almost had a 3rd homicide.\n\nI don't know why we are even talking about how a victim of an active shooter pointing a gun, which he didnt fire, at the active shooter the moment he thinks he is also going to be killed by said active shooter is somehow a bad thing. There was no lie, no gotcha moment, just the defense trying to claim self defense when their client had just finished killing someone and was chambering another round with his gun pointed at a 3rd. You dont get to claim self defense when you are killing people and other they to stop you.",
"Go to law school.",
"We graduated together.\n\nEdit: come on, you gave me shit (pathetically) for only having one joke and now here you are. “Go to law school” more like go come up with something original to say.",
"Are you trolling? I encourage you to watch the trial and all of the recaps.",
">As someone who lives in a country with gun control measures\n\nSorry. \n\n>I disagree that it's inaccurate\n\nIt doesn't matter whether you fucking agree or disagree, it's simply not true.",
"Wait, so after having just murdered someone, followed by individuals trying to stop an active shooter, you murder one of those people stopping an active shooter, and then when he points his rifle and chambers another round at a 3rd person he is somehow in self defense?!",
"Go to law school.",
"You know it honestly is probably best you you never prove to me that you’re actually a lawyer because you’d be laughed out of your firm if they found out you were so dumb that you’ve spend your entire day doing this. They won’t happen because you aren’t a lawyer, but *if* you were I could see how you’d want to keep that a secret.",
"Lol you can’t even make a relevant point, sit down. A few more years and maybe you’ll understand what constitutes making a point.",
"The basis of the threat was the fatal shooting he had just enacted. There was no word of mouth, it was the gunshots and screams that primarily alerted people. They were all present there. We know the threat was real because somebody was already dead. Of course his info was presented to the court.",
"Go to law school.",
"“It's interesting to watch people say with a straight face 'other than the person Rittenhouse had shot and killed, there was no reason for anyone to think he was a threat...'” \n\nThat’s kind of how self defense works.",
">once again his right to defend himself is not dependent on how much money gets spent to fund the military/police.\n\nAhh you're incapable of discussing a situation deeper than what is immediately put before you, how boring. No wonder you have such a narrow view of the world, in relation to your anti-vaxx and anti-semitic comments. It's a shame to see that you've clearly slipped through the net of well regarded Canadian education system.\n\nHopefully this will help provide a case to back up any vigilantes who protect themselves from terrorist organisations like the Proud Boys, well at least they are terrorists in Canadian law, in that case. I suppose some good may come from this at least.",
"He was 17 year old hot head that brought a rifle that was illegal for him to have or transport across state lines; that was intimidating and making threats with said rifle. When people chased him for being a loose cannon with a gun, he kills his first victim when there was no threat to his life that would require you to end the life of another. Homicide plain and simple. So you have someone who has murdered because he thought it was a good idea to intimidate people with a lethal weapon. \n\nNow he is an active shooter, and people decide to be brave to stop him. He kills another because he is running from people try to stop him. Now he is out of control killing anyone who tries to stop him. \n\nHe points his rifle at a third who at this point has a gun drawn but hands I the air; chambers another round and when the 3rd fears for his life and rushes the active shooter, Kyle shoots his 3rd victim in the arm.\n\nOf course he is afraid, he is a 17 year old kid who keeps murdering people to get away from the situation he caused. What did he think would happen? Was he defending himself, yes; but I could say that about anyone who has started killing people and didnt realize what situation they were causing. \n\nAny active shooter shooting at people trying to stop them could claim self defense.",
">This is a cultural issue, not a guns issue.\n\nIt's both, largely because of how guns are integrated in to American culture.",
"[Here you go.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texastribune.org/2020/07/31/daniel-perry-austin-protest-garrett-foster/amp/) It’s not a protest about the 2nd Amendment (although I don’t see why that restriction was relevant to begin with), but protestors were armed, and one was killed.",
"All that typing and then not a peep to admit you were wrong? Try having some intellectual honesty.",
"Remember when you tried to use totally irrelevant inadmissible evidence to complain about how something wasn't relevant? Lol. That was absolutely moronic. ;-)",
"I dropped the conversation because, frankly, you're not worth the effort.",
"From what I can see and correct me if I am wrong; You’ve got a nice place, a lovely dog, and I’m sure, people who love you. Yet you spend so much of your time impudently raging at people on Reddit. Common bud. This isn’t changing anyone’s mind or helping you mentally. If you want to bring upon the next socialist revolution, go ahead, I’m not gonna stop you. Or if you want to donate or volunteer for an organization that fits your cause, that would be great. But take it from me, what you are doing now is not helping anything and it’s only making you angry, anxious, and depressed.\n\nThe world is a beautifully complicated place, but the news and internet tend towards the path of least resistance. Which is to paint things in black and white. I am not a gun nut, I don’t own a gun, And I’d much rather them be more regulated than they are. Me not thinking Kyle is a murderer has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with him being assaulted by multiple assailants with deadly weapons. Nor do I care much for free market ideals or laisse-fair capitalism. And by no-means am I an authoritarian or nazi. And yet that is all you have accused me of, even though I never mentioned any of that stuff. But what ever, I definitely feel I’m wasting my time here. You’re opinion is your own, I just feel like you are suffering, and you are doing it to yourself.",
"Guns are how we liberated ourselves from the British (yes I'm glossing over a few things) so you can't really separate guns from American culture. You *can* over time reduce the saturation of violence in our culture and then begin to work on restoring normalcy eventually without removing guns at all.\n\nBy the way, the worst school tragedy in the US did *not* involve guns. This rather deflates your point that taking away guns will fix the issue.",
"Translation: You got shot the fuck down and don't have the moral fiber to admit you were 100% wrong. It took all of 10 seconds on NPR's site to find exactly what I suggested be done being done in a news article. \n\nYou clearly know nothing of journalistic standards and were talking out of your ass.",
"Whatever broader political or societal implications you think this has are irrelevant. I don’t care. I’m talking about, and concerned with, the trial. You can pontificate to someone else.",
"Or I'm done talking to someone else who's intellectually dishonest, and didn't feel like getting a last jab in, because it's boring. Go away, nobody likes you.",
"Blab for half an hour and when I get tired of your lies and find proof you're 100% wrong then you're done talking?\n\nYou got shut down and don't have one honest bone in your body to admit it. Shameful.",
"So textbook he was charged with murder while the people you claim deserved to be shot were not charged. Hmmm. Might want to get a new textbook. Did you have fun writing all of that and wasting all that time convincing me you still have no clue what your talking ahout?",
"Extremely low rates. Way to ignore everything else I said. Done with you.",
"Alright, I'm going to have you on my ignore list now, since you are the kind of abrasive person who does not know when to stop harassing people. Have fun screaming into the void.",
"Blah blah blah, more and more typing but no admission that you got your ass handed to you. Lied and got shut down, I'd run away too I guess.",
"For the first guy: he reached for kyles gun. This counts as a deadly force and justifies deadly force in return. There’s precedent for this. \n\nThe 2nd guy: hit him in the head with a skateboard. Also deadly force within the confines of the law, especially given the situation and what Rittenhouse was likely perceiving.\n\n\nPrior to ALL incidents Rittenhouse was attempting to run away and only fired when in immediate danger. Go watch the videos again sir.",
"I've made no accusations against you, and you're right, I do have a nice house.",
">\tYes, I would agree with that. Does that make it criminal?\n\nIf you’re asking me if I think children bringing guns to riots should be illegal, my answer is going to be yes.\n\nIf you’re asking me if I think Kyle is guilty of murder, I think it lacks evidence of intent and premeditatation. There’s an argument for some kind of callous indifference or disregard for human life or whatever they call it there, but not murder.\n\n>\tThat it's possible or even probable that you'll get mugged walking through a certain part of town at night doesn't make walking illegal, and it doesn't make mugging them legal even if they should have known better.\n\nIf you bring a gun to a crime and someone ends up killed, that can be felony murder. Even if you didn’t take the gun out, even if you didn’t load the gun, even if you forgot the gun was in that pair of pants, even if it was someone else that pulled the trigger, if someone dies during the crime there’s still a good chance you’ll be on the hook felony murder.\n\n(For the record I don’t think it’s a great comparison, just more like for like than your walking down the street example).\n\n>\tthere's another side that has little interest in impartial application of laws.\n\nI’m going to push back on this really hard because even a cursory glance at the American Justice system reveals a myriad of people who have faced just as bad or worse for doing less. You can barely make it through a newspaper in America without bumping into one of these stories.\n\nKyle is actually doing much better than most due to the publicity.\n\n>\tWhich is the greater danger?\n\nProsecutors doing what they’ve always done\n\nOr\n\nArmed children policing our streets at night\n\nI don’t think I have to tell you which one I’m thinking of.",
"He didn't shoot Rosenbaum for throwing a plastic bag at him he shot him because he was chasing after him, and a witness said he was erratic and said \"If I catch him alone, I'm gunna kill him\". Rosenbaum threw the bag, Rittenhouse pointed the gun at him, Rosenbaum put his hands in the air, Rittenhouse thought he gave up the chase and turned to run away again, Rosenbaum kept chasing.\n\nSo yea, that is not killing him for \"throwing a plastic bag at him\"",
"The shot isn't gene therapy. You don't know how it works.",
"Where did I say anyone \"deserved\" to be shot? There's a difference between *deserved* to be shot and lawfully shot. They may not have \"deserved\" it in a karmic sense, but they got shot as a direct result of their illegal actions which made it legal for the person they were attacking to shoot them. At least, we'll know that when the trial is concluded. But it's certainly trending that way. This is all very sad but it doesn't mean they were murdered.\n\nA person who steps in front of a train probably doesn't deserve to die, but that's what happens when you step in front of a train. \n\nAnd they aren't being charged because two of them are dead. As for why the third guy who admitted to repeatedly carrying a concealed weapon on an expired permit before threatening someone with it wasn't charged with either that charge or with breaking curfew (as Kyle was), beats me. That's an excellent question isn't it?",
"Ya his history of multiple child rapes absolute is relevant, dude was unhinged and violent. lends a lot of credence to the death threat and aggressiveness. Which, for the third time, is the most relevant part of this you conveniently continue to ignore. I understand it’s hard to comprehend multiple points when your brain is running the equivalent of windows 99, but you could at least try.",
"I mean he probably thought Rittenhouse just murdered someone and wanted to stop him from murdering more people",
"Yes, they're all idiots and the civilian walking around with an assault rifle playing peacekeeper with no experience in it, let alone life in general, is among the cream of the crop of idiots.",
"I think you'd have to be a moron to go defend stuff like that as a civilian, especially with no stake whatsoever. How come Rittenhouse was never seen traveling around the US helping in disasters if he cares so much? How come he hadn't joined the military yet? \n\nDude is a moron with no experience in life, let alone what he was attempting to do. He made a dangerous situation even worse.",
"Technically the cops started the engagement by killing unarmed black people. If you don't like a protest you have two options: the progressive way, which is just to fix the underlying social issues, or the regressive way (which we can see regularly used in garbage countries such as the Russia, China, Belarus, Brazil, and the USA, among others), which is to violently shut them down. Violently shutting them down can work as a temporary measure, but it's only a matter of time before it comes back much louder and more damaging than the last time.\n\nThese protests were shut down in 2014, this is them coming back because the problem wasn't properly addressed. Either fix the problem or expect more of the same unrest in the future. Going out attempting to play vigilante by intimidating and murdering people at a protest is really the exact opposite of a proper solution.\n\nTo be completely honest, Kyle Rittenhouse isn't fully to blame. A massive portion of the blame rests at the feet of police unions, a judicial system that refuses to prosecute police, Conservative politicians who protect qualified immunity, and the Conservative media that refuses to hold people accountable when they spread hateful bullshit. Rittenhouse is in some ways a victim, but he still went to a place where he knew unrest could be found with the purpose of escalating it.",
"> Ya his history of multiple child rapes absolute is relevant\n\nFunny, the US rules of evidence say otherwise, and its not admissible in this specific trial either. Seems like you're just incredibly stupid. ;-)",
"> For the first guy: he reached for kyles gun.\n\nAnd then was shot to death, right? Is being shot to death an escalation from being disarmed? Reality says yes. Or do you want to argue that you literally die if you are not armed? You might be stupid enough to believe that. ;-)\n\n> The 2nd guy: hit him in the head with a skateboard\n\nYou just argued that getting hit with a skateboard is exactly the same amount of force (or less) as being shot to death. Honestly, that's the funniest shit I've seen in awhile. ;-)",
"I see you completely fail to address my comments.\n\nBTW, Rittenhouse worked at the Y in Kenosha and lived about 15 minutes away. He was connected to Kenosha. That is why he was there. He lived closer to Kenosha than 2 of 3 guys he shot.\n\nShould he have been there. No. But neither should have anyone else. Nor does that fact change his right to defend himself when attacked.",
"Weird how a certain side of Reddit brings up the past of every last black person killed, but now it's wrong cause it's Kyle, huh?\n\nWhat's the difference?",
"No, reaching for kyles gun is deadly force, and was met with deadly force in return. As I said, there’s precedent for this. Legally speaking you are right to react with deadly force if someone reaches for your firearm (especially given the context of the situation he was in). You may not like it, ou may disagree, but there’s case law for it and his reaction is equal and justified under the law. \n\nAnd ya, you can definitely die from getting brained in the head, not to mention it’s not like the assailant didn’t recognize he had a gun and still tried to bash his head in, so justified reaction again, especially given the context",
"> reaching for kyles gun is deadly force\n\nLol, that's incredible. You are genuinely dumber than my houseplants. \n\n> You may not like it, ou may disagree, but there’s case law for it and his reaction is equal and justified under the law.\n\nThis has absoultely nothing at all to do with whether reaching for a gun is an identical amount of force as killing somebody with it. Again, you are the dumbest person I've met on this website in a long time. I'm honestly impressed.",
"> How about a person beat him before he touched them? \n\nSo you literally don't know what \"beat\" means? Lol. How do you even get this stupid? ;-)",
"Stay mad, stay wrong. Seethe",
"> I know who I wouldn't want anywhere near my kids.\n\nI'd hope a whole lot of republicans are on that list as well.",
"That was the second person with the skateboard. That was still an escalation. The first person chased and grabbed him. Another escalation. Are you not following the case?",
"Nice. This is where you pretend you're making people mad to soothe your ego, lol. You're all the exact same person. ;-)",
"> That was the second person with the skateboard. That was still an escalation.\n\nHoly shit, now he's arguing that swinging a skateboard is an escalation over *shooting somebody in the head.* Fucking incredible, lol. Where do you even go from here? \n\n> The first person chased and grabbed him. Another escalation. \n\nAnd his final escalation was dying, right? Lol! That's the only possible way you think he escalated the confrontation beyond *shooting somebody in the head.* \n\nOh man, thank you. This was hilarious. While we're both humiliating you, why don't you go ahead and tell us how many other people shot Kyle? It had to be more than 3, right? Can't be zero, right? Lol.",
"Rates based on population, job and wealth availability, perhaps?",
"Whatever you say, you’re clearly in the wrong here and ignoring facts because it doesn’t fit your worldview. Seethe",
"I bet if you repeat it a third time, it'll make me angry for real. ;-)",
"Maybe, but i dont think that kind of threat is enough to warrent an average person attacking someone or trying to steal their weapon",
"I explained why you’re wrong based off of the law. You disagreed based off of... your feelings? What you think is right? I’m not sure. And then immediately went to insulting me. I hope you realize how impotent and feeble you appear, but I doubt you do lmao",
"Except all the statements he made and all the video evidence. But sure rofl....",
"You're like the world worst parrot where fox news is playing in the background all day. \n\nNo charges against the witness who tried to subdue KR cuz it was legally justified.",
"Video evidence would be great. Please share it. I can't find a thing.",
"Straight up, I've had my mind changed. I think the Rosebaum shooting was self defense. \n\nI don't know how the gun shot from an unknown person, who shoots a pistol into the air ( who probably thought they could stop Rosenbaum from chasing him by firing into the air) gets missed so often that I didn't ever hear about it until now. But if i was being chased and heard a gunshot i would have probably reacted the same way. \n\n\nAfter that, I think Kyle unwittingly created / was caught up in a situation (fog or war, shell shock, the experience of taking a peraons life, etc) where any rational person would see Kyle as an active shooter because he fled shortly after, he kept himself armed, he didnt find a place to isolate and call police, etc; i.e. he was just a 17 yr old kid with a rifle who just killed someone. But you dont really get to decide how that is going to look when you have put yourself I that situation. \n\nNow he is running away among a crowd of people who think he is an active shooter, and they do what we teach everyone now in an active situation; fight the shooter. \n\nKyle is then probably not in a stable state of mind and in his mind he thinks he needs to kill those attacking him? The rifle he brought to defend with, is now the whole reason why he is running and why he kills people - he created the situation and he cant blame them for doing so. Had he dropped the gun or refused to use it like the 3rd victim, the crowd would probably not have felt like he was an active shooter. \n\nSo we have after the Rosenbaum death, two sides each fearing for their lives and Kyle killed 2 people / maimed a 3rd because he choose to illegally bring a gun and didnt know what to do.\n\nKyle created the situation, and killed 3 people as a result. I believe that the first was self defense, but what happened afterwards was his mistake and he needs to own the consequences.",
">Because drawing down on Kyle, if kyle had already been pointing a gun at him is completely acceptable\n\nGet actually fucked. Did you even watch the video?\n\nKyle was retreating, was hit in the head from behind, had someone leap on him and try bash his head in with a skateboard, and then had this fucking idiot approach him with a loaded weapon.\n\nI'm sorry, but if you're lying on your ass being physically assaulted by an angry mob and one of said mob runs at you and is within five feet of you WITH A LOADED GUN IN HIS HANDS then Kyle pointing his rifle at him is not fucking 'provocation'. Like what, he was chasing Kyle down the street with a loaded handgun in his hand ready to go because he just really wanted to talk it out?\n\n>The other party has every right to draw their weapon in self defense\n\nWATCH.\n\nTHE.\n\nFUCKING.\n\nVIDEO.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iryQSpxSlrg\n\nWhat fucking part of a dude sitting in the middle of the street with multiple people rushing in to assault him makes you fucking think that Kyle somehow instigated this motherfucker pointing his gun at him?\n\nYou clearly haven't watched the fucking video so I just don't understand why you're asking such ridiculously uninformed questions.\n\nThis shit has been publicly available for a year now. Are you just not interested in being informed?",
"Nah you can you just want to ignore it.",
"Reddit isnt the courtroom ya dumfk. Im not writing a legal brief to you. Which would be pointless anyway since you have the reading comprehension of a ferret.",
"> I explained why you’re wrong based off of the law\n\nAt no point have you ever cited any law, you hilarious moron. Lol. this is too good.",
"https://lawofselfdefense.com/rittenhouse-1/\n\nRittenhouse will be acquitted and you will continue to flail feebly on reddit. Seethe harder, impotent lemming",
"> The first person chased and grabbed him. Another escalation.\n\n> And his final escalation was dying, right? Lol!\n\nLol, redefining \"escalation\" to only mean \"shoot\"... okay buddy.",
"> Lol, redefining \"escalation\" to only mean \"shoot\"\n\nHe genuinely doesn't know what it means. That's amazing. Lol.",
"The victims were Caucasian",
"&#x200B;\n\n>The laws are completely different where you're going.\n\nAnd the sky is blue. Next.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Often federal law has more things or different things to say about your actions than either your source or destination jurisdictions.\n\nFine, but he is in being charged in-state and not federally, so this doesn't matter. Next.\n\n>when you cross a state border you immediately up the stakes\n\nIt potentially becomes a federal issue? Is that what you are trying to say?\n\nBecause that would actually be accurate. However, he is being tried in state court, which means it means absolutely nothing that he came from another state, legally. I already clearly stated why it doesn't matter morally, but you didn't want to engage there.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Why does it only go one way?\n\nVague. Do you mean why is only Rittenhouse being charged right now? Good question. I do believe that the defense also wanted to know why Grosskreutz didn't even have his phone searched (even though there was a warrant) or why nobody was trying to get that skateboard.\n\nOr do you mean (as I suspect you do) why does Rittenhouse get the presumption of innocence here? Because he is the one on trial. If you don't understand this, you are not ready to take part in this conversation.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Both of them were in the commission of a crime\n\nAh, you are more of a \"guilty until proven innocent\" kinda guy. Well, that might explain your previous statements. The trial is trying to discover exactly what you have just pronounced. Also, we only ultimately care about Rittenhouse here. It's his trial.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>so how is it we're going to look at Rittenhouse and say he's OK to use self defense but no one else is\n\nThis is getting a bit tiring. The answer is: this is the trial of Rittenhouse. If the DA decides to bring charges against Grosskreutz, then he could try exactly the same defense. He would perhaps have a harder time proving that he couldn't avoid the situation as he chased (oh, sorry, he went the same direction as Rittenhouse because of Rittenhouse, but he wasn't chasing \\*facepalm\\*), was on his feet, and approached Rittenhouse. But yes, then it becomes really important to establish what Grosskreutz was thinking.\n\nUnfortunately for your point here, this is Rittenhouse on trial, so it matters exactly zilch what Grosskreutz was thinking, unless the DA is watching and trying to decide if he should be charged with attempted murder.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>reasonably be thought to be aggressive\n\nSort of? You are not entirely wrong, but you are misinterpreting the scope. Because this is in Wisconsin, we only have to look at the laws there and see that even the initial aggressor is allowed self-defense if he clearly tries to remove himself from the situation. Kyle Rittenhouse was running away from the mob and was being attacked from pretty much all sides. So even if I were to steelman your argument and somehow assume that just being somewhere is \"aggressive\", the fact that he tried to get away gives him the right to self-defense. Go read up about the law in Wisconsin, and realize that whomever you are listening to for your info is full of shit.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Kyle had no business being there\n\nI have seen this talking point, but it makes no sense. He is an American. He saw a duty to help protect neighbors and, unlike the people you seem to be listening to, he sees other Americans as his neighbors, regardless of some dotted line on a map. You also were allowed to be there. \"No business being there\" is a non-point that only sounds reasonable until you think about it for 5 seconds.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Pretty hard to argue self defense when you instigate the situation\n\nHe put out fires and asked if people needed medical help and ran away when a confrontation started. You and I seem to have quite differing ideas about what \"instigating\" means.\n\nBut even if I were to steelman your arguments yet again, self-defense is allowed even if you \"instigate\" a situation, as long as you try to get out of the fight. Your moral outrage notwithstanding, that is the law. Be happy that is the law. Otherwise every protester out in the street without a permit would be fair game. I don't think that would be good. I'm praying that you would not either.",
"> https://lawofselfdefense.com/rittenhouse-1/\n\nNone of this addresses anything here at all, lol. Holy shit, you are seriously brain dead.",
">friendly and helpful\n\nHe could be friendly and helpful without an illegal assault rifle.",
">What's the difference?\n\nThere is no difference, at no point did I say there was.\n\nAt no point did I bring up the unfair treatment of black people. Im a staunch supporter of fair trials, regardless of who is the defendant.\n\nI have no idea what you were trying to achieve with your reply other than to insinuate I'm racist. You've made yourself look like a retard, to be honest.",
"Yeah, whatever he's going through, that batch of psychopaths are going to make worse.",
"It's interesting you bother posting at all on what is essentially a discussion board. You don't really seem to want to discuss anything and merely just regurgitate the same talking points.\n\nYou're not seemingly adding anything to the discussion other than letting everyone know your Authoritarian stance, even then your stance is incorrect as you clearly aren't that clued up on Wisconsin's state laws relating to guns. \nSeeing as you are so rigid about laws and how they are interpreted it's bizarre you'd get them so wrong. It feels as though you have a particular narrative and you're refusing to change your mind.\n\nMy point still stands, and remains unanswered by yourself. However I'll focus entirely on the case at hand, as I feel any additional discussion is causing you distress.\n\nWhy was a 17 year old child (Federal age of responsibility being 18) roaming the streets armed? Particularly given that in Wisconsin's law you can only open carry at 18, Kyle was 17 at the time. This is already a clear violation of the law. You seem to have avoided this issue for the sake of your narrative. See Wisconsin state law 948.60(2)(a) .\n\nGrosskreutz was well within his legal rights to pull his firearm on Rittenhouse, particularly given that he was legally able to do so, with Rittenhouse illegally armed under state law, I fail to see any evidence otherwise. So him doing so does not absolve Rittenhouse of any guilt either. If anything Grosskreutz was merely using his rights as a gun owner for self defence purposes.",
"Umm he didn’t randomly shoot someone but I’m not ok with the scenario you just attempted, poorly, to make. And he is on trial so idk wtf your “without trial” claim is",
"50% of it is a lie. You can’t just believe shit because your feelings feel differently",
"No it wasn’t. Prove it was true and I’ll prove it isn’t",
"Everyone's an ass hole in this situation.",
"Weren’t all those people “in danger” because COVID was a thing at the time? Also they were burning buildings and looting stores but people like you refuse to admit it because you get brainwashed by your fucking media info, most of which you probably get from Reddit then have the Gaul to talk shit on using Reddit as a media source. This kid walks and I can’t wait to see you pissed off about it",
"There is a reality, but the tongue in cheek reference to the liberal bias of facts plays off of how the left in this country constructs their arguments from reality, and the right does not. That does not mean the left's policies and ideas are unimpeachable, it doesn't mean left aligned media outlets don't sensationalize or get the facts wrong sometimes, but they are at least willing to engage in good faith discussion about them. The right is not, and it's why the Republican party has given up on all pretenses of running on policy.\n\n> The fact here is that he was clearly not there to kill people, and only did so as a last resort of self-defense.\n\nIt's a lot like George Zimmerman. Yeah sure you've got enough there to show reasonable doubt in a criminal trial, that the in-the-moment circumstances could be from self defense. But they also inserted themselves in a situation that nobody asked them to be in (the business owner didn't ask Rittenhouse to be there for sure), that could not have lead to anything productive and carried a serious risk of violence.\n\nSo, he may have been acting in self defense, but he might have *also* been there to harm people. The two are not actually mutually exclusive.",
"If you're there to provide medical aid, you don't need a rifle. You're repeating the defense's narrative unchallenged.\n\nRittenhouse could have been there both to help people he wanted to, and to harm the BLM protestors. He was literally there as a BLM counter protester. The two are not mutually exclusive.\n\n> (a sex offender, btw, big loss there).\n\nI'm sorry they weren't a model victim. The punishment for being a sex offender, and even for attacking someone (though if indicted, they too would have a reasonable chance of arguing self defense) - is not death.",
"He wouldn't have come clean if it wasn't for the cross examination from the defense and he was willing to throw another person under the buss in the process.",
"> the media networks condemned him as a white supremacist who was there looking for trouble.\n\nLets set one thing straight, [Rittenhouse is a white supremacist.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/14/kyle-rittenhouse-proud-boys-bar/) \n\nThat doesn't necessarily mean he was there to cause harm. I think he was, but it's hard to prove intent. Nevertheless, the media was in the right when they labeled him a white supremacist.",
"My point was armed marches don't have him violence, not that marches where some minority are armed don't. Hence the mere act of open carrying isn't a hostile act, or those things would be bloodbaths.",
">Its 100% legal for someone to rush someone they believe is an active shooter \n\nYep, and it's 100% legal for someone to defend themselves when they get rushed...\n\nThe fuck is your point?\n\nI find it funny to see that your way of interpreting self defense adds your personal views to it - You know it doesn't work like that, right?",
">Because I have morals and ethics that extend further than a bunch of shit some crusty old men wrote down?\n\nROFL. Oh, look at you! You're a moral beacon in this amoral world!\n\nYou're aware that most laws haven't been created yesterday, right? And that there is constant revision of outdated laws.\n\nAnd no, I don't believe the criminal justice system to be infallible: I Just don't agree that one should be able to give their own interpretation of a situation, and then willy nilly pick and choose what law applies or not.",
"Whoa, you’re a straight up wackadoo.\n\nYou’re not a flat-earther “we didn’t really land in the moon” person as well, are you?",
"Quote the exact part of the article where NPR lied. Because they didn't.",
"Incorrect. Wi doesn't have any laws against a 17 year old open carrying a LBR (long barrel rifle). Also, it is completely legal to \"loan\" your gun to others in Wi. So no, he won't be facing and gun charges as he didn't break any gun laws.",
"Wisconsin allows 17 year olds to open carry long barreled rifles...",
"Making up stories like these must be exhausting. Get some rest.",
"I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you’re saying here.",
"When hunting.\n\nAre you gonna tell me he was out hunting now?",
"Nope that is only for the SBR statute part of the law. Read it closely, especially part F.\n\nEDIT: Here is a pretty good summary of it. Notice how all those laws state 12 to 16. KR wasn't 16, he was 17 which means he was exempt from those laws about \"only hunting\":\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Wisconsin#Open_carry",
"I'm gonna need a link. All I can find is anyone under 18 needs to be at a range or hunting and with adult supervision.",
"Look at my edit, I literally already supplied one. Notice how all those statutes about range use, or hunting are for ages 12-16 or 14-16. KR was 17, he falls outside of those stipulations due to how the law is written.",
"The \"pedo\" you have no sympathy for. Was not put on trial before being killed. In what way is killing people without giving them their day in court a good thing?",
"they do not.. it only matters what was happening at the moment of truth...the split second you can justifiably say you felt your life was in danger.. that's all that matters and all a jury can consider. Rittenhouse is on-camera... running scared and they are chasing him... he tried to get away... he tried to hide... they found him.. attacked him and pointed guns and weapons at him... WTF?",
"I properly addressed this in my comment, if you'll refer to:\n\n> They don't matter insofar as the murder charge if and only if he successfully argues the self defense, defense. It looks like he may just do just that with regards to Grosskreutz",
"Who cares? That's literally the point of insurance. Why the hell would you risk personal harm for a bunch of inventory? Lol\n\nI couldn't care less if he walks. His life is likely ruined for many years. Good for him. Hope it was worth it for him lol. Should be interesting to see the civil lawsuits next...",
"Anyone feeling otherwise is part of the politicization of the case",
"Not one and the same. Science changes over time.",
"The relevant information has already been shared above. Nothing the reported was incorrect.",
"So at this point I'd probably need a lawyer to parse this, but my understanding is that this only means that 17 year olds can hunt or shoot targets alone, as the specific exemptions for 12-16 year olds are for hunting and target shooting. The law starts off with \"Any person under 18 years of age...\" with exemptions being only for hunting and practice. To suggest that 948.60(3)(c) somehow allows open carry for 17 year olds outside of a hunting/target context kind of misses the point because those are specifically hunting and target shooting restrictions.",
"They can almost convict or free a defendant based on how they choose to portray a case, before a jury is even seated. It makes finding an unbiased jury pretty damn tough.",
"If you think my point is that nobody should have guns, you've grossly misunderstood me.",
"I will caveat my previous comment, that I think the first shooting with Rosenbaum was self defense. I dont know how it isnt brought up more that a person can be seen firing a pistol in the air (probably to see if that would stop Rosenbaum from rushing Kyle) with Rosenbaum chasing Kyle. If I was being chased, and i had just heard a gun shot behind me, i would have turned and thought the guy was going to kill me.\n\nEverything after that is Kyle looking like an active shooter for not applying medical with his first aid, not disarming, fleeing instead of isolating and calling police, etc.\n\nIt's a bad situation that Kyle created with him having lost control of how he is perceived and then continues to keep killing people because of his mistakes in judgement with both sides fearing for their lives because Kyle choose to play vigilante with an illegally held and transported firearm.\n\nNow two people are dead because of a situation and a third is maimed for life because of his mistakes. He got to deal with the consequences. \n\nThe defense and this thread are all about the 3rd victim looking like he wasnt doingnsomething reasonable or rational or even lied when there is video and photo evidence that he isnt lying. They just want to establish that Kyle was acting in self defense, but so were his last two victims. \n\nI think the just will find him not guilty of Rosenbaum, but because he is the one that put himself into the situation, he is going to be found guilty the 2ed death and the 3rd being shot in the arm.",
"100%? Obviously not since he was charged with multiple felonies and the guy who \"rushed\" him was never chatged. Thats the point you keep ignoring to fit your personal biases.",
"What are you on about, man? The dude simply admitted what is PLAINLY OBVIOUS in the video. It wasn't even necessary. You can clearly see the kid was defending himself from multiple assailants. He even gave this particular one a chance to surrender and live, which is more than anyone, including you, would have in that situation.",
"Then you can make the case the rioters should not have been their either.",
"lol, so because he's charged with multiple felonies, there was no self defense? You know people get charged with multiple felonies, and then acquitted of some charges, right?\n\nOr he could be found guilty of other ones (like possibly being in possession of a weapon while underage, though from what I'm reading that doesn't seem as cut and dry either)\n\nAnd yes, the other guy hasn't been charged, because of the reasonable belief clause, not? But just because he's protected by that, doesn't mean that KR didn't have the right to defend himself against an unjust attack.",
"Yes it was",
"I’m glad he killed a pedo that supports your bullshit and then gets to walk. I’m also glad you are glad bitch",
"So a pedo not being put on trial in your eyes is a positive thing???? You are one sick fuck you probably molested your fair share too. Wish you were shot as well at that point",
"Um the dude already posted it and was a complete lie and biased take because they side with Antifa and people like you are so stupid that they just believe what is being told to them because they want it to be true and want every issue to be black and white so they feel it’s cut and dry on their version of perceiving it. Hence why douches like you will just brutally attack anyone who utters the words “republicans” near you. It’s sad the stupidity behind it really",
"And yet this isn’t a political biased trial is it?",
"He actively tried to remove himself from the Rosenbaum confrontation and the Huber situation. He wasn’t pursuing either of them, it was the opposite. The charge I see sticking is the weapons charge, which he deserves. \n\nDo I believe Kyle wanted to kill anyone when he left his home that night? Absolutely not. Do I believe he thought through the whole thing before deciding to go to Kenosha, armed with an AR-15? Absolutely not. But literally all of the video footage that I have seen is positive for Kyle, without videos of the each confrontation, he might be screwed. \n\nAnd I feel that constructive conversations and polite conversations are the best way to try to get a point across. I am almost as left leaning as they come. You can go back through my comment history and confirm that. Most of my time on Reddit is spent making fun of the Q crowd and the lunacy of the current conservative political climate. But the politics needs to be removed from this situation and only the facts taken into account…. And they point to Kyle being justified in his self-defense claim.",
"What do you mean?",
"I can yes. No one should have been there. But in this particular case, if he hadn't been there then this particular incident wouldn't have happened.",
"Alright then.",
"They are quoting a witness, and they are saying that's what the witness said. Do you not want them to report on the trial?",
"Do you watch the trial? I do and that’s not what was said especially in that manner",
"Maybe you should try your hand at reading but, you incompetent buffoon lmao. I’m sure it went over your head",
"What do you mean what do I mean? I stated what should be a fact but are you too politically biased that you couldn’t even get close to qualifying as a jury member of it? Thank god you aren’t npr cock sucking bitch",
"I didn't say everyone there was a rioter. I'm saying the event is considered a riot when property damage starts to get destroyed on a large level. The monetary damages are posted to show that to do 50 million dollars worth of damages isn't going to be just a couple of crimes. According to Zillow, avg property value is 200k . You'd have to burn 250 houses to reach that (and technically that property value includes land which wouldn't be counted so it'd be higher). 250 homes isn't just a few random crimes.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Was there ever a crowd/mob of people that focused their effort and anger on destroying a target\n\nWell, a crowd tried to burn down a gas station that was thwarted by Rittenhouse & gang but it sounds like intent is all you needed. Glad we could come to a consensus.",
"Alright then, what did he say because that's what he said to the prosecutor.",
"I'm saying you're calling the trial politically biased, but it's not. Three people were shot by a person who had a weapon illegally. They need to hear and decide the self-defense argument.",
"There’s an exception in Wisconsin law for 16 and 17 year olds carrying rifles or shot guns. At the worst this is a misdemeanour for Rittenhouse, which I’m sure you will see if you continue watching the trial. He was there providing first aid and defending a business, nothing illegal. \n\nAnd there are 5 factors to self defence: innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness. You don’t get to claim self defence after chasing someone down the street, because it can be inferred they posed no immediate threat to your person if they are running away, especially given how Rittenhouse refrained from firing when he saw Grosskreutz hold up his hands in surrender. Meaning Grosskreutz was in no danger until he made to shoot Rittenhouse",
"Yes, the people that tried to take it were shot in the process of the attempt. \n\nLet's see your next high IQ take...... Oh, aggressively harassing people by...... Offering first aid?\n\nWhere do you get this stuff from? There is video of the whole event start to finish, have you just not bothered to watch any of the footage yourself?",
"It is okay man, I'll buy you some heavy duty aluminum foil for that hat I know you want to make.",
"Hah, called it! You dumbfuck, the point is that *everybody* who is suspected of a crime should be put on trial, tried, and sentenced. Look at the other replies to my comment, this bullshit response was called out well in advance.",
"The vegas concert mass shooting wouldn't have been half as bad if he only had a knife. Columbine wouldn't have been half as bad if they only had knives, culture is an issue of course but if people have access to better weapons for killing people they'll be able to do it better, I like my odds against a knife way more than an AR-15",
"So let's call it even I guess.",
"Given the history of shooting sprees in the US comitted by minors, Grosskreutz was well within his rights to pull his gun on Rittenhouse.\n\n If someone was coming at me with a rifle with no clear markings of being a part of law enforcement or the military under those circumstances and I was legally able to carry a gun, you best believe I'd be defending myself. Rittenhouse is lucky he wasn't confronted by someone with better training or he'd be dead. \n\n\n>There’s an exception in Wisconsin law for 16 and 17 year olds carrying rifles or shot guns.\n\nIf you actually knew what you were talking about, then you'd know that the exception does not apply in this situation. Unless of course you think the exception applies:\n\n\"when the dangerous weapon is being used in target practice under the supervision of an adult or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the supervision of an adult.\"\n\nSo again, you're clearly just scrambling to push a narrative. It's actually quite pathetic to see. \n\nAt least you're finally ceeding that Rittenhouse is guilty of at least some charges.",
"> I'm saying the event is considered a riot when property damage starts to get destroyed on a large level\n\nWhat \"event\"? You act like there is an organized group of protestors that did that. That's not the case. And that's not the definition of a \"riot\" per say. If one person set a fire, is that a riot legally? No. If a crowd does it, yes. But again, none of that happened from what I saw. \n\n>a crowd tried to burn down a gas station\n\nGoing to need a source on that.",
"Your application of self defense from people legally allowed to detain you is the issue here. Self defense is extremely situational. You can't just blanket claim self defense and ignore 99% of your actions up to that point. Someone rushing you, is not justification for deadly force when that person is legally allowed to detain you because they suspect you of committing a crime and being a danger to the public... You saying something is \"unjust\" doesn't mean anything.",
"Here again, further down in my link under \"guns and minors\":\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Wisconsin#Firearms_and_minors\n\n>Defenses to prosecution under this statute: \n\n>The minor was 16 years of age or older, not in violation of laws on short-barreled rifles or shotguns, and was in compliance with regulations on hunting, if hunting.[",
"Dident matter. They were not ignorant to technology advancing, there were plenty of multi shot / high capacity weapons at the time and people privately owned battleships, hence privateers.\n\nThe point is to have the same kit as the army",
"That I may not be able to speak to due to lack of knowledge on Wisconsin gun laws but this still does not change that he acted in self defence. He shouldn't even get a manslaughter charge.",
">Given the history of shooting sprees in the US committed by minors, Grosskreutz was well within his rights to pull his gun on Rittenhouse. \n\nI think this takes the cake as the most harebrained and idiotic thing I’ve ever read on reddit. You might notice the prosecution did not use this argument, because it’s quite possibly one of the most retarded sentences you could’ve put together. You have to be trolling with this right? Lmfao\n\nYou’re really not this disingenuous are you? At no point was Rittenhouse approaching Grosskreutz, quite the opposite in fact. Rewatch the video, Grosskreutz was the one chasing Rittenhouse as he ran and pulled his glock on him, which promptly resulted in the loss of his bicep. Deserved, and it even had the good fortune of locking his now useless arm up still holding his glock, so everyone could see the reason for his misfortune.\n\nThe narrative here is the truth. Misdemeanour for the rifle? At most, yes. Self defence? I think the prosecution did as good a job as you could hope for proving Rittenhouse acted reasonably to defend himself",
"I get that, but if that's what it actually means, then the \"18 or older\" part is completely unenforceable in every way. So either the law is poorly written, or the hunting clauses are too vague.",
"Correct, the 18 or older is unenforceable as the law states you can be under 18 as long as you are 17 or older. Due to Wi having 17 being their \"age of consent\" so most of their laws are tailored around 17 being treated as an adult.",
"Do you think the worst school disaster was Columbine?",
"no it just came to mind, that's beside the point, replace any of those incidents with a knife and way less people lose their lives",
"So you really didn't look into what the worst disaster was did you?",
"It is nothing like the Zimmerman case. Zimmerman pursued Martin, Rittenhouse pursued absolutely no one. In fact, it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he ran away from conflict both times before being chased down and forced to use his weapon.\n\nAnd if he were there to harm protestors/rioters, why was he seen on camera administering medical aid to protestors before the shootings??",
"So if I want to detain you (read: kick your head in by a jumping kick, or smash it in with a skateboard), because I -think- you're a criminal, you can't do anything against that, right? Ok, good to know. Where do you live?\n\nAnd no, someone can't **legally** detain you when they -think- you have committed a crime. When no crime has been committed, that's NOT legal; it's false imprisonment and you'll be the subject of a civil claim.",
"You clearly are not aware of the videos that have come out of the night of the protests. Rittenhouse is ON VIDEO offering & administering aid TO PROTESTERS.\n\nAlso, the sex offender was caught ON CAMERA saying that if he got Kyle's gun he would kill Kyle. He then chased Kyle down, attacked him, and tried to rip the gun from his hands. That constitutes assault & probably attempted murder. Self-defense was justified.\n\nLook, you have obviously made up your mind about what happened without looking at al the facts & evidence. Please get fully informed on the situation before you try arguing with me.",
"So you counter my argument by linking an article from one of the most progressively biased news outlets in the world...that proves absolutely nothing.\n\nThe kid had just gotten out of jail, it's possible that he was giving the OK hand sign, as if to say \"I'm OK\". Since it's hard to judge intent, neither you nor the Washington Post can definitively say he's flashing white supremacist signals.\n\nHe didnt target minorities, he acted purely in self-defense (as has been proven in court). So labeling him a white supremacist is completely irrelevant, even if it's 100% true. The media was riling people up to demand his head.",
"Are you referring to the Bath School disaster?",
"Pretending doesn't work, lol. Thank you for admitting there's nothing there. ;-)",
"You seem upset about finally admitting Kyle is guilty over committing at least a crime. The \"Lmfao\" really shone through amd showed you're true character. \n\nThanks for confirming everything I already sispected about yourself, keep on pushing that narrative!",
"You seem upset about finally admitting Kyle is guilty over committing at least a crime. The \"Lmfao\" really shone through and showed your true character. Not to mention your display of ineptitude relating to your understanding of the laws you are claiming to have knowledge of that you seemingly glossed over. \n\nThanks for confirming everything I already suspected about yourself, keep on pushing that narrative!",
"They're all horrible, stop trolling because you're mundane argument doesn't hold up. Guns facilitate these mass murders, none of them would be as bad if you replaced the gun with a knife.",
"What do you mean called it? I’m looking at our back and forth and you haven’t called shit and that response is a pussy out move from proving shit wrong on my take",
"I’m the one saying put politics aside on the trial of what was a child at the time because it determines the rest of their lives. And everyone on this site is being politically biased because they purely don’t want him to get off on self defense, which was clearly the case every time I watch the footage, because he was on the other side of their political affiliation. That’s sick and wrong on every regard you could possibly say to me",
"The altercation started with you punching him so it probably wouldn't even go to a jury. You would be at fault. \n\nPosthumously of course.",
"I want him to get a fair trial, I'm glad he fired his first defense attorney because of that.",
"You're not making any sense. NPR quoted Grosskreutz's statement to the prosecutor. What do you want?",
"You really don't know how to read Reddit threads, do you? Here, let me make it easy for your tiny little noggin.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq5zr9/grosskreutz_admits_that_kyle_rittenhouse_only/hjza692/",
"Yes I am. Why would you keep assuming that if someone can't use a gun they have no other mass destruction options? \n\nI'm just baffled that one side keeps focusing on a symptom and not the root cause. Especially seeing the road Britain is going down. Do you really want knives banned?",
"Pedophile accusation it is!",
"Pedophile accusation it is!",
"I'm not trolling and you didn't even look into it. You propose a false dichotomy, that the choice is between a knife and a gun. The Bath school disaster was the worst in our history and was caused by bombs. You suppose that banning guns will make things safer when bombs are what actually caused the most deaths and bloodshed. \n\nYou keep using appeals to emotion with Columbine and you're calling me a troll? That's your strategy, is to just call anyone that disagrees a troll?",
"Only if the Jury thinks he'd been in a constant state of facepalming the entire day. If you watch more of the videos that's simply the way that guy sits while writing.",
"Holy shit you just got intellectually abused and all you can manage is “you said lmfao and admitted he might get charged with a misdemeanour” Think you should do some more research so your worldview doesn’t get completely shattered when he walks free from all charges except maybe probation for the rifle.",
"Exposed for being wrong and all you can manage is “you’re lying!” Pitiful",
"If there was something there, you would have quoted it already. You didn't, because you can't. ;-)",
">Holy shit you just got intellectually abused\n\nBen Shapiro is that you? Honestly you're providing some top tier debatelord content. \n\nI'm not the one pretending to know about laws, and getting them completely wrong. You failed to even address the fact you'd got that wrong, not sure how you've \"intellectually abused\" me but whatever helps you feel special in your fantasyland I guess. \n\n>Think you should do some more research so your worldview doesn’t get completely shattered when he walks free from all charges except maybe probation for the rifle.\n\nI'm honestly not that invested in it, don't even live in the US so it makes no odds to me. \n\nThanks for the entertainment though!",
"It's cute that you've decided to apply a second meaning to the symbol of a tinfoil hat while completely rejecting the notion that the \"Okay\" hand symbol can have multiple meanings when used in different contexts.",
"I feel like most situations are rarely that straightforward though. What if we are arguing over a parking spot and getting closer to each other. He gives me a bit of a shove before I punch him? He pulls the gun then I pull mine? I mean this is all hypothetical cause I’d rather be alive and wrong than dead and right. But I think people are starting to get so insane about always having to be right we will see more of this stuff. And with cases like the current one you know there are people out there eager to get into situations where they can legally use deadly force to kill someone. Can’t help but feel like cases like this are doing a lot to erode public support for gun rights.",
"As for that case it would really just come down to the witnesses interpretation of the event. If he just relayed that the altercation started when he shoved you then he'd be guilty. If more details to the start of the argument made him look better and you worse then the opinion may flip.\n\nSomething like that will (and should) ultimately be decided by a jury of your peers. And their interpretation of the events from the evidence gathered should stand.\n\nAnd as for public support for gun rights, it's currently at an all time high and shows no sign of backing off, at least not until this country calms down.",
"Best to let this guy stew in his own failure to be honest man, he's clearly unhinged and on some kind of crusade that no one asked him for. He probably has a manifesto somewhere....",
"Lol, what second meaning is there for tinfoil hat?",
"Yes and Democrats ordered the police to abandon the city to the rioters and let their own fucking police station be burned down.",
">Democrats ordered the police to abandon the city\n\nLol wat\n\nKyle Rittenhouse literally walked among and with the many police who were present moments after murdering a person.\n\nHow brainwashed do you have to be to even try throwing that out there. Lol \"The Democrats ordered the police to abandon the city\". Fuckin yikes dude 😂\n\nSee this is why no one takes you people seriously.",
"Isn’t support for curtailing rights at an all time high too? Seems like that is just the reality of an ever increasing polarization",
"Bombs are way harder to get your hands on than guns, explosives account for very few murders in the US every year. They're also illegal, you can't walk into a walmart and buy a bomb. None of your arguments give any reason why there shouldn't be stricter gun controls you just keep bringing up unrelated issues because you can't form a sentence. Nice use of the word dichotomy though, well done!",
"The problem is that in American and most other nations people are largely uneducated past highschool. What you're seeing on reddit and other social media is large swathes of young people with no education and little to no real life experience, commenting with unearned confidence, on subjects that they have little understanding. They largely act out of emotion with little thought towards fairness and facts. It's a cancer in our society that is rotting away at the core of our democracy.",
">Bombs are way harder to get your hands on than guns, explosives account for very few murders in the US every year.\n\nAnd yet that dude did. You do it over time, just like a stockpile of guns and ammo. \n\n>They're also illegal\n\nSo were bombs at the time of the Bath disaster. What makes you think criminals follow laws?\n\n> you can't walk into a walmart and buy a bomb.\n\nDid you even think this one through? You can walk into Walmart and Home Depot and buy all the parts for a bomb. The fact that it takes time to accumulate the supplies doesn't matter. You're still going to have just as much tragedy because the person was going to kill themselves anyway. Doesn't matter if they do it by gun or explosion.\n\n>None of your arguments give any reason why there shouldn't be stricter gun controls\n\nI never said there shouldn't be any stricter controls, just don't expect them to solve the issue. As you tighten down guns, people are going to find ways around it because culture is the true root cause.\n\n>you just keep bringing up unrelated issues because you can't form a sentence.\n\nMy sentences are fine, the issue is that you seem to think making something illegal makes it go away and that you can't get bomb materials at Walmart. OMG, what other good jokes do you have troll!?\n\nI mean, for fucks sake, we outlawed meth and it's still an *enormous* problem. We make it super hard to by Sudafed and it's still an *enormous* problem. But hey I guess making guns illegal will fix everything!",
"Cared enough to reply all these times despite clearly being wrong. Lol!",
"The law and justice prevails, enjoy whatever warped fake journalism you care to entertain, the real world will see Rittenhouse walk free",
"Millions of uneducated emotional teens and young adults have access to social media. \n\nThey don't even know how to do taxes but they sure as shit know the inner workings of the justice system and its complex nature better than RBG. /S",
"Are you feigning ignorance or are you really this dense?",
"Are you? Can you honestly not apply the same self defense clause to the people trying to disarm a guy that just shot somebody? Do THEY know he was in self defense? No, he shot someone and still was armed.",
">despite clearly being wrong.\n\nWhat part of the law did I get wrong, you seemed to stimble even on a simple, and easily searchable clause. \n\nIt's be funny seeing how far your insanity goes.",
"What country are you from? Americans are not \"Largely Uneducated\" we have a huge problem with people going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to get educations. The US hosts more colleges and universities than any other nation. That in no way disqualifies what you said about the people on Reddit.. but that is not representative of the collective United States.",
"Dunning Kruger syndrome runs wild on Reddit",
"He possessed a long rifle, not a short one. You might want to reread the statute you’re citing lmao",
"What's it like to care so much about this? I can't imagine caring so much about something so meaningless. Rittenhouse is an idiot and his life is over. Oh well. Who really cares about this kid other than his mom and dad, and why should anyone care?",
"So you're doubling down on being wrong, come on man you're better than that surely. Seems like you aren't the rational thinker you project yourself as being, that fragile ego of yours is showing.\n\nApart from quoting the exact law he was breaking with his criminal behaviour, here is a more easily digestible link to politifact: \n\nhttps://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/28/facebook-posts/did-kyle-rittenhouse-break-law-carrying-assault-st/\n\nI mean unless you care to provide your own evidence to back up your claim. I've provided you plenty. \n\nFacts don't care about your feelings or narrative in the real world unfortunately for your sensitive soul. Rittenhouse clearly violated at least one law and is therefore criminal by definition at least.\n\nRespond when you have some evidence or another childish insult for me to laugh at. You've made my most recent visit to the toilet more entertaining though, although what I flushed had more substance than anything you've provided in this thread. Looked slightly more intelligent as well.",
"He had a long rifle. \n\nPolitifact is not the law you misinformed lemming. \n\nThis section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.",
"I'll refer you back to the law I mentioned previously:\n\nWisconsin state law 948.60(2)(a) states: \"Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.\"\n\nThe exception to that does not protect Rittenhouse, he still broke a law and is therefore a criminal by definition. A long rifle is still classed as a dangerous weapon, or are you going to try and use mental gymnastics on that as well?\n\n Also the very law you've quoted makes no distinction between a long or a short rifle. Then again your ability to read seems questionable so I don't expect it has sunk in yet. \n\nI'm supposedly a lemming but you simply can't accept the truth because of the narrative and emotions you have are clouding your rational mind, assuming you have the capability to think rationally. For what it's worth I only ever used the politifact article for your benefit as they aim to explain it in simple terms and you come across as a simple person.\n\nAgain get back to me when you have anything substantial that overrides 948.60(2)(a) that doesn't involve your fantastical intepretation of the law.",
"Oh after seeing the insanely incompetent performance of the prosecution after this comment yesterday and today, I withdraw my statement. They barely argued the facts of the case and were total clowns. Their handling of discussion around motive was cringeworthy. A decent lawyer would have had this in the bag, but these are very obviously not decent lawyers.\n\nRittenhouse I now think it likely to be acquitted, and we're going to see a lot more \"oops the unarmed person made me kill them after I menaced them with my rifle!\" incidents as a result.\n\nAnybody could have done a better job than these prosecutors. Why the hell bring up video games?",
"They absolutely can if they reasonably believe someone committed a felony. You can also use deadly force to protect others if you reasonably believe they are in danger. In this case both of these apply. The only surviving witness testified he thought he was an active shooter because he just shot someone and ran away and might be trying to shoot someone else. Which give him the right, under his reasonable belief to use force and detain him.",
"Yes, if people keep attacking them. \n\nJust because you defended yourself from one person doesn't remove the right to self defense from anyone else.\n\nHonestly, your comment is probably the fucking dumbest shit I have read in a long time. I mean, it is REALLY FUCKING STUPID!",
"The exception to the law, does specify between long and short barrel. He had a long barrel and was intending on going hunting, ergo he broke no law. It’s a good thing too, because if he didn’t have that rifle he would’ve been in dire straights when those thugs tried to kill him",
"they should have duct-taped him to the chair",
"Forgive me, but many if the legal analysts seem to disagree with you. For example, CNN's group all say it helped his case, to varying degrees.\n\nAs I said, if he is convicted due to his testimony, I'll apologize to you. I won't even expect the same if he walks on self-defense \n\n(Not for the various minor charges, like the gun charges. THOSE, he should totally be nailed for.)",
"Hahahaha! How's that Rittenhouse trial going for you today!?\n\nI just saw the drone footage you were talking about, and now I understand why you were so scared of linking it! It shows Rosenbaum *chasing* a *fleeing* Rittenhouse and grabbing for his rifle before he took a bullet to the dome! The same Rosenbaum who earlier that day said he was going to kill Rittenhouse if he caught him alone!\n\nDamn, this trial is a slam dunk!\n\n>In an account largely corroborated by video and the prosecution’s own witnesses, Rittenhouse said that the first man cornered him and put his hand on the barrel of Rittenhouse’s rifle, the second man hit him with a skateboard, and the third man came at him with a gun of his own.\n\nhttps://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-george-floyd-racial-injustice-kenosha-shootings-f92074af4f2668313e258aa2faf74b1c\n\nOuch! That's gotta sting! Hahahaha!",
"Lol see exactly as I said. I'm not into this in the weird way you are, like team sports.",
"\"weird team sports\" is when you do so many mental gymnastics to try and convince yourself of something that flys entirely in the face of all the video evidence and testimony before you that shows a textbook example of self defense because it would be damaging to \"your team\" to admit to the facts. You can't look at anything objectively.\n\nGlad to hear you are finally backing down.But feel free to Keep drinking the Kool-aid of you so please!",
">I'm not into this in the weird way you are\n\nLol, your comment history tells an entirely different story. 🤣\n\n>Lol honestly you have a huge hard on for American and Australian politics, which usually means you are a right wing fuckhead. \n\nI don't know how you can have so much cognitive dissonance to say shit like this then turn around and accuse others of playing team sports. Talk about projecting. Wow!",
"lol my brain is more educated and earns more than you ever could I just don’t care about Reddit or Redditors enough to waste my time 99%of the time because all of you are blind political loyalists that would eat at the soul of a child because you think he leans right wing fuck off whatever lgbt shit you run your life with. Identifying with a sex thing rather than who you actually are must get old though",
"The truth and they didn’t give it and usually don’t. What do you want?",
"Bullshit dude you hate this kid clearly and it’s purely because you believe him to be a right wing terrorist because the media has told you to believe that fuck you",
"Quote the exact NPR lie.",
"No. He needs a fair trial, and it looks like he's getting one so far. The facts needs to be established.",
"It’s been quoted multiple times by you why do I have to read for you?",
"Now you are lying",
"He doesn't need a fair trial?",
"He is not exempt from 948.60(2)(a), but you seemingly can't take that basic information because your feelings are getting in the way of your rational mind. \n\nStick to your anti-vaxx and xenophobic rants, at least you have an easier time bullshitting about those. Thanks again for provoding some entertainment, watching you struggle to pull off some wild mental gymnastics to defend a criminal has been hilarious. Not to mention your cringey debatelord statements, \"intellectually abused\" definitely made me laugh the most.\n\nHonestly I hope you're just trolling for some attention, I'd hate to think you actually exist with this insane mindset.\n\nRittenhouse's performative crying in the stand was more believable than your crap.",
">The only surviving witness testified he thought he was an active shooter because he just shot someone and ran away and might be trying to shoot someone else. \n\nWell, if he would have been thinking clearly, he would still have two biceps by now...\n\nIf you see someone shooting someone else (which he btw didn't!), and you don't know what has happened before that took place, your 'reasonable belief' is about as weak as your replies.\n\nHe (and the skaterboy) just wanted to do some vigilante justice, and didn't think of the consequences that could arise from that.",
"Sure, so very smart that you fell into exactly the response expected.",
"He’s obviously suffering from ptsd, whine all you want, soulless child abuser , the poor kid is gonna walk",
">Why would you keep assuming that if someone can't use a gun they have no other mass destruction options?\n\nWhy do you keep assuming that's what I'm assuming? Where did I say \"getting rid of guns will stop mass violence/death\"? Where did I say that? Hell, find anywhere where I said \"We should get rid of guns\" at all. Please, check both threads so we can stop having this imaginary argument about a point neither of us is for.",
"nuh uh you're stupid! stupid! at least I know what bigot means fucktarrrrdddddd",
"For what it's worth Rittenhouse is now 18 years old so in most states is no longer considered a child. Calling him a kid is inaccurate. \n\nHowever at the time of his open carrying of an illegally procured firearm, he was a child and therefore breaking Wisconsin state law. \n\nI know factual accuracy isn't as important as your narrative and virtue signalling to push your narrative though. Nice try though.",
"Incorrect, by his own admission he paid someone to buy it for him with an unemployment check. This is what is known as a felony straw purchase in Wisconsin.",
"That's exactly what I said doofus. Someone purchased the gun for him.",
"Saying someone purchased it for him leaves out the key fact that he paid for it himself and as such, was a party to the straw purchase. A key detail for a felony murder charge. Doofus.",
"That has no bearing on the murder charge, it's an entierly separate charge to be dealt with in this trial. I don't expect doofuses to know how the justice system works though.\n\nIt's going to be wonderful when he walks away from shooting the child rapist and woman strangler to death in self defense. How you will reeeee and cry.",
"If you attack someone who just got attacked and defended himself, you're another attacker, genius",
">That has no bearing on the murder charge, it's an entierly separate charge to be dealt with in this trial. I don't expect doofuses to know how the justice system works though.\n\nSaid the doofus who doesn't even know he wasn't charged with a straw purchase felony. Hopefully after this charade concludes he will catch a case for it. Keep up. \n\n>It's going to be wonderful when he walks away from shooting the child rapist and woman strangler to death in self defense. How you will reeeee and cry.\n\nSaid the doofus sticking up for a person who sucker punches teenage girls like the sniveling little bitch he is. I've been long subscribed to the fact he is getting off. Rittenhouse is a piece of shit down to his core and will absolutely see the inside of a jail cell several other times in his life, likely for violence against women.",
"I’m not sure you are correct on that because you are the one who keeps proving my point",
"When did I say that?",
"\"yeah I saw a guy shoot two people so I disarmed him or by shooting him\"\n\n\"Fool! Couldn't you see he was justified in his killings but you're not!?\"\n\nHow is one self defense but the other isn't? I can't defend a third party? \n\nYeah how about we just don't kill each other. He went with a rifle intending to use it, and he did.",
"Youre probably right, ive only been watching the trial so no commentary from the news or opinion sites, so my judgement on what was said is not filtered through any legal sense of which i dont know much about. I saw the prosecution catch kyle admitting to multiple lies on the stand and figured that cant be good for him,especially the frame by frame slomo where he gets kyle to admit he pointed the gun at gaige first and that gaige has the same right to self defense as him. I think prosecution did a decent job at proving reckless homicide which was one of the charges. \n\nAfter watching todays trial and the judge letting right wing trolls testify on behalf of the defense without letting the jury know the context to the bias of those websites/tweets hes made saying \"kyle rittenhouse is innocent because antifa is thugs\" for the last year and a half seemed unfair to me. The judge is terrible and should be recused from this case for his clear bias towards the defense.",
"You're saying I'm lying. I don't know what you mean.",
"> the judge letting right wing trolls testify on behalf of the defense without letting the jury know the context to the bias of those websites\n\nWhy would a judge... *any* judge... tell the jury anything of the sort? If it's relevant, it's the Prosecution's job to discredit them, not the judge's.\n\n> The judge is terrible and should be recused from this case for his clear bias towards the defense.\n\nThe only people i've seen saying that are \"lefties\" (forgive the term) who are finding out that legal matters don't work the way their fantasies say. \n\nHas the judge been coming down on the Prosecution more than the Defense? Yes, 100%. Is it because of a bias against them? They've been playing fast and loose with the rules of a trial and the judge apparently had enough yesterday. So he's biased against prosecutors that don't follow the rules.\n\nThere was a lot of talk about them trying to get a mistrial because they know they've pissed this case right down their legs. Then the state could find better proscecutors and make a better case. That could also blow up in their faces: a mistrial with prejudice would prevent the state from retrying the case. Since there hasn't been ~~rioting~~ peaceful protests on Reddit today I'm assuming that wasn't granted.\n\nGuess we'll find out eventually.",
"The judge wouldnt let the prosection disclose that to the jury because the judge said he didnt think it was relevant information to the case. He let the defense introduce tweets by previous witnesses without worrying about that",
"They factually evacuated their police station instead of protecting it. It's one of the most shameful displays in American history. Anyone seen with a molotov cocktail is a murderous arsonist and should have been shot on sight.\n\n> Kyle Rittenhouse literally walked among and with the many police who were present moments after murdering a person.\n\nThey did not see the shooting and killing in self defense is factually not murder.",
"You are lying about your stance is all I said",
">It's one of the most shameful displays in American history.\n\n*Almost* as bad as the decades of extrajudicial and racially motivated police violence that got us here. *Almost.*\n\n>They factually evacuated their police station\n\n>They did not see the shooting\n\nSo wait were they there to not see the shooting or were they all evacuated leaving only brave vigilantes to keep the peace? Did they phone up Kyle in Minnesota asking for reinforcements or was it just lucky that he showed up armed to a protest? \n\nForgive me it's just hard to keep up with what whatever the right wing echo chamber keeps telling you guys to think at any given moment.",
"LOL. Yeah. THEY are the real vigilanties here. The utter hypocripsy of your post.",
"> So wait were they there to not see the shooting\n\nThe specific cops Kyle ran to did not see the shooting. Nor were any others present for it.\n\nDo you fucking think cops are omnipresent and can see every inch of a fucking town at all times???\n\n> or were they all evacuated\n\nThey evacuated the police station, not the entire town itself.",
"If you didn't think the media was straight up corrupt and trying to encourage violence, then this should be your wake up call. Question everything the media tells you.",
"Cry about it",
"\"Like what, he was just chasing kyle down the street with a loaded handgun because he just really wanted to talk it out?\"\n\nGeorge Zimmerman enters the chat.",
"Ummm no I think maybe gun control instead",
"Your argument is fucking TERRIBLE.",
"> Isn’t this similar to George Zimmerman \n\nNo.",
"> Zimmerman chased Martin despite being explicitly told not to by 911. That makes him the aggressor.\n\nFalse. 911 dispatchers have no authority to give orders. On top of that he is visibly heard acknowledging the dispatcher and was walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked from behind by Martin. Martin was the aggressor, and this justified Zimmermans use of self defense.",
"This is intentionally misleading and you have to be one dumb motherfucker to believe it. Their definition of a ‘protest’ is like four or more people. So sure, a ton of tiny protest were peaceful but the biggest protests (read: riots) weren’t and contained hundred and sometimes thousands of people. Anyone with a brain who keeps up with the news can see that most protesters aren’t peaceful. Nice narrative pushing though.",
"Yeah, because it works so well in places like Chicago and Detroit lol",
"Do you think maybe guns there come from other places?\n\nDo you think failure in one effort means it's impossible? \n\nAre you aware that other than Brazil and Congo, most countries don't have the murder rates we do?",
"Most countries don't have a tiny portion of the population committing half the murders lol",
"Criminals you mean? I think that's universally who's committing crimes. Unless you mean something else?",
"Turns out I was right about the law! Who woulda thought!",
"Glad that I was living in your head rent-free all this time, I'd completely forgotten about your insanity. Dropping the charge doesn't mean he didn't break that law, not sure what you're finding so hard to understand still.\n\nCute that I've got a fan though!\n\nEdit: Also if you actually read what the judge has said, he has dropped the charge due to how vague the law is, not because the law explicitly states the type of weapon, which I believe you were claiming. So no, you are still not \"right\". Another case of you being unable to read...\n\nMore importantly, how many other people are in my fan club aside from yourself?",
"The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion. Justice is being done. He will walk",
">The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion.\n\nOh we're roleplaying now as well? \n\nImagine un-ironically being this cringe inducing.",
"Proverbs 28:1. I’ll pray for you, brother.",
"Don't need an ancient bit of text to live my life by, but thanks for thinking of me again.",
"I hope you find God, and learn to stop blaming a child for developing ptsd after fighting off numerous attackers.",
"Well, the gun charge was just dismissed. 🤷♂️",
">for putting himself in one of the stupidest fucking positions imaginable by a human being. \n\nNot quite as stupid as bringing a plastic bag to a gun fight.",
"Rosenbaum didn't really put himself in a stupid place though, certainly not in the same way that Rittenhouse did. He just acted like a fucking moron.",
"How do you mean? They were in the same place, but one was committing arson and vandalism, one was asking people if they needed medical help.",
"[Not guilty on all counts. Not just one count. Or some. Not guilty on ALL counts.](https://www.waow.com/news/top-stories/kyle-rittenhouse-found-not-guilty/article_09567392-4963-11ec-9a8b-63ffcad3e580.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WAOW)\n\nTell me more about my \"stupid opinion\"\n\nBut who're we kidding your dumbass probably won't reply and just abandon the discussion like it never happened. Like every other bleeding heart who doesn't know shit",
"Well would you look at that- [all of the charges magically went away]( https://www.waow.com/news/top-stories/kyle-rittenhouse-found-not-guilty/article_09567392-4963-11ec-9a8b-63ffcad3e580.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WAOW)\n\nAll of your rude comments and \"truthiness\" approach to armchair legal arguing is some /r/confidentlyincorrect material. How does your foot taste",
"Not guilty on all counts! Woot woot!",
"Enjoy your victory",
"Hello... \nIt's me.",
"Since he was found not guilty on all charges, maybe its time for some self reflection? Perhaps your political views are skewed in the wrong way. I don’t blame you. Theres more misinformation out there than ever. All you needed to do was watch the trial and all the video evidence out there. It was pretty damn obvious. You let your political emotions get in the way of critical thinking and now you look like a fool. Leave your emotions out of these incidents. They do you no good. \nI hate to be the person who says i told you so, but here we are. All the best!",
"Why was he there with a gun? Only in America and other countries with awful gun violence where that is legal"
] | 3,885 |
videos
|
Grosskreutz admits that Kyle Rittenhouse only shot him after having a gun pointed at Kyle, and prosecutors facepalm
|
https://youtu.be/RhvjXeYEJnU
|
/r/videos/comments/qq625j/this_is_far_scarier_than_getting_the_virus/
|
[
"So dying on a ventilator from the virus and infecting and potentially killing your loved ones is less scary then unrelated, uncorrelated cardiac arrest? 🤡",
"Of course COVID causes myocarditis at a much much higher rate then the vaccine.",
"The He-Man version is better, and doesn't have as childish a misunderstanding of the way the world works.",
"Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy goes undiagnosed extremely often. 1 in 500 people have it. It’s very hard to catch and people often don’t find out they have it and just drop dead. Literally, one moment living life and the next their heart stops. Usually after or during vigorous exercise."
] | 15 |
videos
|
This is far scarier than getting the virus
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtTR-_Klcq8
|
/r/videos/comments/qq6fhd/this_song_wouldve_been_cancelled_by_the_cancel/
|
[
"why?",
"Don’t be a pussy, man lol.",
"L.A.P.D. would be worse.\n\nHas a line that goes \"beat all the nwords\"\n\nBut he(a white guy) uses the actual word\n\nEven in it's context it shouldn't be done",
"No it wouldn't.",
"Right on! Let’s boycott cancel culture!!\n\n/s. Fucking snowflake.",
"How so? Looks like an Always ad to me",
"I could think of a bunch of \"worse\" hit songs...\n\nJeremy\n\nPumped Up Kicks\n\nRape Me\n\nI Wanna Fuck A Dog In The Ass"
] | 7 |
videos
|
This song would've been cancelled by the cancel culture if it was released today.
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79bVKq_vTR0
|
/r/videos/comments/qq6i1a/interesting_video_about_kissing_bugs_on_deeplook/
|
[
"I've seen these in a Crysis game...",
"Thanks, I hate it",
"Aren't those the same named \"assassin bugs\" that are one of the most deadly animal (by number of victims per year)",
"https://www.anywhere.com/flora-fauna/invertebrates/assassin-kissing-bugs"
] | 4 |
videos
|
Interesting video about kissing bugs on Deeplook
|
https://youtu.be/b0Nbo7qnGd0
|
/r/videos/comments/qq6x8v/in_dreams_scene_from_blue_velvet/
|
[
"First thing I thought of when I heard the news",
"Whenever I hear In Dreams I sing it like Ben.",
"Ben you are one Sauve Mother Fucker",
"Damn, thought Lynch died for a second after seeing this posted here. Seeing this and realizing half those folks are gone really hits you, still. Poor Jack Nance, what a tragic story.",
"Sorry about that. Yes, David is still alive and well and he did have a nice little tribute to Dean Stockwell today [during his daily weather report.](https://youtu.be/BU5_VArSebs)",
"What if Quantum Leap jumped from movie to movie instead? Obviously the Fellini/Lynch/Herzog films would be there as comic relief. Or straight horror.",
"**Quantum Flick**. I'd watch it.",
"Even more Twin Peakish than I imagined it would be…",
"Roy Orbison was so damn rare. Also, Isabella Rossellini, phreow. Finally, it looks like they're headed to Pussy Heaven."
] | 9 |
videos
|
In Dreams Scene from Blue Velvet
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoyD6bmJYV0
|
/r/videos/comments/qq7fkw/cancel_culture_explained/
|
[
"Stop trying to cancel cancel culture.",
"Most of us just call this “consequences.”",
"Very informative, thank you for sharing.",
"As with anything else, there are complexities to cancel culture that this criticism is glossing over. \n\n1. If you have said things that kind of make me sick of listening to you, and I stop listening to you, that is not cancel culture, it is consequences for your actions. Some of the people crying “cancel culture” have not been a victim of anything more than having their comments made public, and then suffering consequences from them. \n\n2. Some of the people crying cancel culture have committed acts, often crimes, that have always been repugnant, and the only thing that has happened to them is that their normally silent victims have spoken up. Most of the people outed by “me too” are in this category. After decades of getting away with things, their victims have said, enough is enough. This is not cancel culture, it is consequences for actions, unless you are trying to argue that things like withholding a job until you get a sexual favour was at one point in time acceptable behaviour. It wasn’t, this is just consequences. \n\n3. There are people who have said things without much nuance or charm that offended some people who don’t want to give them the benefit of the doubt about their intentions. Agreed, this is cancel culture and we should try to put a stop to it. \n\n4. There are people who have committed trivial, juvenile acts in the distant past. Agreed, this is cancel culture and we should put a stop to it. \n\nHow to avoid being cancelled: treat people with respect and dignity.",
"People shouldn't have their past comments held against them if they've shown they have understood why their comments were not ok to say. If someone brings up your past comments and you don't acknowledge that it was a mistake or double down, sure, get canceled. \n\nBut the amount of times someone has said something shitty in the past and owned up to it and STILL have shit against them (James Gunn for example), that's where cancel culture needs to calm the fuck down.",
"whiny bitch",
"It’s not cool to insult someone because they have different views on social issues. It’s important that we hear both sides and open up a discussion, rather than insulting each other",
"Nah. Fuck these whiny bitches. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to get into. What you say just leads to the paradox of tolerance. No more of this both sides bullshit. Consequences for your words and actions have always been a thing, way before it got a cute label. Way before the Dixie Chicks, way before Nixon, McCarthy, Winchell, hell you could make an argument the Puritans were cancelled and shipped out of England for their views and deeds. It's just consequences. Someone labelled it and the guys with the loudest megaphones are speaking so we all have to listen to them whine.",
"This guy has a pretty narrow view of the subject. And I agree with other posters that cancel culture is not really a new thing. It seemed to be noticed more during the Trump Admin because a lot of people were just saying repugnant things on twitter and elsewhere because they felt that they had license to do so. Furthermore, what you wrote/say/do is indicative of who you are at the core, no matter how long ago you said it. If one makes disparaging remarks about women, homosexuals or other minorities 20 years ago, you are likely to have the same feelings deepdown. The only difference may be that one has matured over the years and realizes that such things aired in public are very distasteful. Would you want to work with someone who at one point publicly espoused hateful views?",
"Cancel culture isn’t as big a problem as some people make it out to be. In many cases, those cancelled were simply suffering the consequences of their actions. I don’t see that as a problem. The cases that are constantly being brought up as injustices are few and the cancel movement- if we should even call it a movement - will evolve to forgive those particular cases."
] | 10 |
videos
|
Cancel Culture Explained
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viUT9Alc1yo
|
/r/videos/comments/qq7q4d/gentlemen_prefer_blondes_1953/
|
[
"When they say \"the good ole days\" they certainly weren't referring to acting. Yikes.",
"I kind of like it, it’s more like a play since they didn’t have the ability to make blockbuster level scenes. It all relies on an actor to entertain rather than big explosions and whatever makes a movie a big deal nowadays",
"C O P E\n\nThis is soap-opera level acting, and yes it does show how the industry of early filmmaking and classic theater where using the same type of acting.",
"what? No, it's because the whole acting profession came from theater. Just imagine this scene from a backseat, you'd probably be upset that they didn't move and gesture *more*",
"the \"good ole days\" don't exist. They're just utopianism for pessismists and people lacking imagination.",
"I think you're both wrong. I think the issue here is 100% the studios being too obsessed with accents. None of those people are giving natural performances because they're all trying to hard to speak with \"proper\" diction. Especially Marilyn, but the two gentleman seem to me to be struggling with it as well."
] | 6 |
videos
|
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes 1953
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua95fPR6HC8
|
/r/videos/comments/qq7tq2/traditional_caucasian_dance/
|
[
"so that's why music box figures dance like that... also that first lady that dances into the video is tiny.",
"\"they all look the same\" lol...",
"Pretty cool, feel like that cut of dress is not the ideal for the women to dance in lol, but glad they figured out 'just take smaller steps'.",
"Tiny step dancers, look like a mating ritual. Looks like a fun little occasion",
"Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?",
"Totally reminds me of square dancing.",
"I actually have spent 30 years mastering this style of dance. I got into it as a kid, though my style differs in that I move my feet much much less. If anyone has any questions feel free to AMA.",
"I kind of get it, but thanks none the less.",
"[https://tubedubber.com/?q=ua95fPR6HC8:ONJneFvdu1Q:0:100:0:0:1](https://tubedubber.com/?q=ua95fPR6HC8:ONJneFvdu1Q:0:100:0:0:1)\n\nthis really starts to work around the 1:20 mark",
"I think you're being downvoted by people who think you are making fun of \"white people\" and don't understand that Caucasus is a region between Iran and Russia and that the people are called Caucasians. It's shame really.",
"I kept waiting for it to stop creeping me out. Didn't happen.",
"To be fair it is not a common use of the term, this is my first time coming across the term in this context and I am Eastern European myself, familiar with the Caucasus region.",
"They are professional dancers btw",
"Was the idea to look as goofy as possible?",
"My word, the figures on those girls! Interesting, thanks.",
">In his The Outline of History of Mankind (1785), the German philosopher Christoph Meiners first used the concept of a \"Caucasian\" (Kaukasisch) race in its wider racial sense.\\[b\\]\\[page needed\\]\\[26\\] Meiners' term was given wider circulation in the 1790s by many people.\\[c\\] Meiners imagined that the Caucasian race encompassed all of the ancient and most of the modern native populations of Europe, the aboriginal inhabitants of West Asia (including the Phoenicians, Hebrews and Arabs), the autochthones of Northern Africa (Berbers, Egyptians, Abyssinians and neighboring groups), the Indians, and the ancient Guanches.\\[36\\]\n\n[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian\\_race](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race)\n\nBasically some dude thought europeans came from this region and nobody ever bothered to change the term.",
"last week i watched that movie again for the first time in years. i was thinking about that scene when watching this!",
"Almost all traditional dancing is basically a mating ritual.",
"[See Also](https://66.media.tumblr.com/3a6beb31a47351013c0754f8ecbc7973/tumblr_o2nmn3ZCGg1qb86cao1_540.gif)",
"it's just a word, talk about \"the caucasus\" or \"people from\" there and everyone knows what you're talking about",
"some serious hotties there",
"Oh, so THAT's the way I am supposed to do it.",
"Everyone? Are you familiar with the geographical ethnic knowledge of people from the southern USA?",
"yes when I say \"everyone\" I literally mean every person on earth",
"That chambered hand ready to slap dat ass",
"land fish",
"Just like Native *Indians*, or positive terminal actually holding all the electrons.",
"That's just a catwalk set to music.",
"Do they have any food in Caucasia?",
"So this is what caucasians think dancing looks like. Makes sense.",
"Amazing.",
"I would guess the women are wearing corsettes, and pretty tight ones.",
">Basically some dude thought europeans came from this region\n\nWell, indeed they did. The urheimat of Indo-European peoples is the Caucasus region. The real question is why did it come to mean ONLY white people, when even the original use of it included a lot more than white people, and Indo-Europeans themselves are a lot more than just white people.",
"I don't understand. Please elaborate.",
"The girls look 10 years older than the boys",
"TECH NOIR",
"Here's what we were hoping to see... \n\nhttps://youtu.be/pY6HWA68kk4",
"[Traditional Caucasian Dance](https://tenor.com/view/drunk-dancing-drunk-dancing-gif-8176517)",
"... and not a single one of them would pass the Turing test.",
"Taking hoverhand to a whole new level!",
"> And speaking of which -- when did \"white\" become synonymous with this region?\n\nSomething to do with the theory that Noah's Arc landed in the Caucasus. The term then got picked up from there by the anthropologists trying to make a science of the study of race. It's all kinda stupid.",
"[Traditional New Yorker dance](https://youtu.be/dmctBYwo4Pk). \n \n[More tradition](https://youtu.be/wcps0MFV-6s)",
"Yes, they eat daily.",
"And non-traditional dancing.",
"Depends on if sanctions have been levied.",
">All Indo-European languages are descended from a single prehistoric language, reconstructed as Proto-Indo-European, spoken sometime in the Neolithic era. Its precise geographical location, the Indo-European urheimat, is unknown and has been the object of many competing hypotheses; the most widely accepted is the Kurgan hypothesis, which posits the urheimat to be the Pontic–Caspian steppe, associated with the Yamnaya culture around 3000 BC. \n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages\n\nThe Pontic Steppes are close to, but not the same thing as, the Caucuses. Indo European is also a language classification, not a \"racial\" classification in the modern sociological sense.",
"Wow I came in here to post that. Perfect",
"Thats is definitely an interesting dance for sure.",
"Yes but what about P. Sherman from 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney Australia. Does he know?",
"This was almost hypnotizing at times. Really cool!",
"If I was wearing those heels and a vacuum-tight skirt, I couldn’t dance either…",
"I thought the title was derogatory at first, turns out it's the title in the video",
"That was so BEAUTIFUL! I loved how the women's faces were so placid yet comfortably confident.",
"How did you find out my real identity?",
"Armenians are also called Caucasians cuz their country is near the Caucus mountains.",
"I thought the Chicken Dance was the traditional caucasian dance.",
"The Q-Tip shuffle",
"That's racist. Honest, but racist",
"Does this style change in different countries? Awesome dance.",
"How...?",
"Haha, just a heads up my post is a joke that I am a horrible dancer and barely move around.",
"Caucasian are people who come from the north Caucasus region of europe near Russia. This is one of their traditional folk dances\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North\\_Caucasus\n\nhttps://zvuk-m.com/en/nacionalnye-tancy-kavkaza.html",
"It doesn’t look like any of them are actually enjoying it.",
"[Reminds me of the Mars attacks Lady](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKPLQbl44as)",
"This style of dance is not as easy as you seem to think it is. \n[This is an example of a very extreme and professional \"tiny step\" dance.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM8K-JkKXKM) It's not about the skirts, it's about the culture.",
"Thinking this exactly",
"Typical Caucasian dancing == showing no emotion.",
"I'm regretting the title of this video",
"He did what I did initially and associated that Caucasian=white\n\nHowever he incorrectly assumed this was about white peoples dancing",
"When you see a stage full of women doing this floating with long skirts, it's very impressive. And they can cover a lot of ground fast.",
"I like the women doing the little swimmy motion.",
"Dude. It was a joke. Relax",
"The music seems Cajun (not just the accordion, but the rhythm) but the dancing certainly doesn't",
"Yea, I'm already regretting the title",
"...there's a ton of emotion in the dance.",
"DRESS RIIIIGHT, DRESS!",
"So line dancing isn't just for country music fans?",
"Lol OP gave you the most chill reply ever tho, just some links",
"Did they invite ugly people at all or....?",
"Nothing wrong with your title. Ignore the ignoramuses.",
"Ah the traditional “Dance of the Mayonaise”, done every year before the harvest.",
"There is a tree from there called the Caucasian Wingnut. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterocarya\\_fraxinifolia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterocarya_fraxinifolia).",
"That would be relative to where you live and things you watch/read etc I think. I would argue it's a more common use of the term.",
"I'm glad to see shuffling is dancing. I'm in!",
"Reminds me of those birds where the male sticks out his chest, shows his plummage, struts around and the girl watches, takes her time, not sure if he's worth her time.",
"The vertical expression of horizontal desire",
"I’ve taken 8 years of dance (Ballet, Irish step dance, Scottish Country Dance, etc.) so there’s no need to school me. \n\nRe-read my comment. I didn’t imply it was easy. Read carefully before making snap judgments.",
"What do you mean correctly? The people in the video are called Caucasian. And so are white people. So both are correct?",
"But you said AMA. You have to answer now. It is your duty.",
"**[Circassians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassians)** \n \n >The Circassians, Cherkess or Adyghe (Adyghe: Адыгэхэр, romanized: Adıgəxər; Kabardian: Адыгэхэр, romanized: Adıgəxər) are an indigenous Northwest Caucasian nation native to historical Circassia. During the Circassian genocide perpetrated by Russia, most Circassians were exiled from their homeland in Circassia to Turkey and the Middle East, where the majority of them live today. The Circassian language is the shared ancestral language of Circassians; and Islam is their historical religion since the 16th century.\n \n**Circassian genocide** \n \n [Expulsion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide#Expulsion) \n \n >\"In this year of 1864 a deed has been accomplished almost without precedent in history: not one of the mountaineer inhabitants remains on their former places of residence, and measures are being taken to cleanse the region in order to prepare it for the new Russian population\". – Main Staff of the Caucasian Army In 1862, the proposal to deport the Circassians was ratified by the Russian government, and a flood of refugee movements began as Russian troops advanced in their final campaign. General Yevdokimov was entrusted with enforcing the Russian policy of mass Circassian migration to other parts of the Russian Empire or the Ottoman Empire.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"Well he associated first that Caucasian as white, which is correct, he thought this was making fun of white people dancing…",
"White dress got me.",
"You do know that people who are unfamiliar with the geography of the world don't only exist in the United States south right? Plus, they got it easy over there in Europe. USA and Canada are like 80 percent of the continent. Id like to see them know what states are where and border withh each other. And what the Canada and Mexico borders are. One day I'm going to eat some main lobster and someone will be like oh is that from the us? And I'll be like yeah you fucking idiot. It's at the top. Right above connecut and rhode Island you dumb ass!.... man these Europeans..geeze, they aren't taught anything.",
"I heard a phycopath of a little girl lives there",
"funny how the men get to look at the women's faces but the women have eyes averted at all times.",
"The written expression of a marble gargling desire",
"Wait this isn't Cotton Eye Joe...",
"Funny how the women get to do this and walk while the men are busy shuffling their feet.",
"When prom crosses with Kingdom Come Deliverance",
"Lol",
"Don't. You're correct on the definition.",
"So now what am I supposed put under \"race\"?",
"You got me. Yes, there are significant regional differences in drunk white folk wedding dances. On variation in fact involves a lot of swaying and arm flailing, which seems to be a more standardized version of the dance.",
"Is that Drake or Josh?",
">The real question is why did it come to mean ONLY white people, when even the original use of it included a lot more than white people, and Indo-Europeans themselves are a lot more than just white people.\n\nI mean, on identification forms 'white people' get to either tick Caucasian or European, and either option still begs your question.\n\nIt's almost as if race is social construct, and we had to play broad & vague with what 'white' meant when somebody asked.",
"Delightful !!!\nGreat bit of 'peacicking' by the lads, and pure elegance from the ladies.",
"Nah. I was looking at one of the ones in the black dresses.",
"Well that is the russian law as I understand it.",
"OK, I'm not a guy, but those women look unnaturally.....perky.",
"Interesting. Do you mind if I cite this for my graduate thesis?",
"jontron looking motherfucker front and center there.",
"I thought it was going to be Elaine dancing. Pleasantly surprised.",
"You can really feel the passion",
"The woman in the white dress was the one I couldn't stop looking at. Not because she's more impressive than any others - they're all pretty attractive - but because I kept thinking she looks Latina. \nIn fact, there's one that looks Eurasian. \n\nIt's a very interesting & eclectic looking group of dancers.",
"To be fair, she looked like she was the only one actually enjoying herself.",
"Dancing, meh\n\nThat accordion player pulls ass!",
"Can we talk about how great the music is.",
"You clearly implied that they \"couldn't dance\" because they were wearing tight skirts and heels. There's no ambiguity in that statement other than in your head.",
"r/whitepeopledancing",
"If this is a comment about everyones thin figures, I would imagine that their food is not over processed, loaded with sugar or chemicals. Unlike an American shit diet",
"Nah, you shouldn't regret it. It's been a learning opportunity for lots of the people who clicked on it.",
"I wonder if this is Georgian. My family is from Turkey but we’re Laz, ethically similar to Georgians. Our music sounds just like this.",
"Correctly? In this context it was incorrect though",
"Where the caucasian women at, am I right?",
"Well, the girls are pretty.",
"Yes my comment is phrased wrong and I need to edit it… he correctly made the connection that Caucasian means white but incorrectly made the assumption that this is making fun of white people dancing and not talking about people from the Caucus area",
"Yeah that's true, certainly not the more common usage of Caucasian here in Northeastern NA.",
"I implied *I* couldn’t dance like that but go off I guess. Reddit doesn’t require any level of reading comprehension to participate.",
"The latest Android models from Japan are almost realistic",
"Came for comedy from title. Stayed for the entire dance. Always interesting to see dances from different regions.",
"That was FRICKING SICK",
"Go for it, cite me properly please.",
"If you really want to know \nhttps://youtu.be/8iZDapgQdFo",
"Lol... properly?... please. No one knows how to do that. Plagiarism all day. You're done man. I'm taking everything you just said and making money off of it! You'll never write in this town again",
"You ended your post with the word \"either\", implying that the people in the video can't dance",
"They *are* Eurasian",
"Is this the dance where they typically wear long flowing clothing and because they take smooth even steps it looks they are floating around on stage?",
"Same. Dat body.",
"The Circassians are one of many groups that live in a diverse region, that name doesn't refer to all people from the Caucasus",
"I too was pleasantly surprised, but it still looks like something from the Ministry of Silly Walks 🤣",
"Actually I correctly made the assumption they were showing how white people dance because we all know white people are not known for dancing. What I did incorrectly was think that people of Reddit have a sense of humor. Looking at my downvotes I see they do not.",
"I believe the video title says Circassian",
"Imitating the hover board without having one",
"Hey mate. European here. You spelt Maine and Connecticut incorrectly.",
"Tim' Burton's wife, Lisa Marie.",
"Lol Connecticut? idk what happened. No excuse. But Maine? That's all my dumb ole swype auto correct. So yeah. You got me, I admit. I haven't gone back and looked but I think I got rhode right. But hey, spelling has nothing to do geography, or what the meaning of words are!",
"Right, but given the headline... \n\nIn the US, one doesn't generally (or, ever) use the term \"Caucasian\" to describe those of asian descent.",
"Would have been so cool with a proper lightshow. Looked like Milkdrop rocking the screen at the back. Imagine someone remix this over at EDM.",
"Ah man, this is why a hairy taint can't make it in this world!",
"The Caucasus are a set of mountains...",
"Since I didn't say \"the Caucasus\" or \"The Caucasuses\", what's your point again?",
"the caucasus is the mountain range that essentially divides europe and the middle east. it runs along borders of russia, georgia and azerbaijan and from the black sea to the caspian",
"rickk and morty",
"It's all coming from old 18th-19th century racial theory, which causes minorities prejudice to this day. It's kind of unbelievable that we're still using these words and categorization in any capacity whatsoever.",
"- a very buttoned-up dance\n\n- the camera was wayyyyy too tight on the performers\n\n- the music slapped--hella good groove\n\n- cheerleader effect be damned, those were some fine-looking young ladies",
"Dude, does everyone chime in with the same comment? Who the fuck cares what the mountains are called when I'm obviously talking about race. \n\nMy first comment in this thread was about race, so was my second, in an attempt to clarify/restate my point.\n\nThe title is \"Traditional Caucasian Dance\". Caucasian is a descriptor of race in the US, not geography.",
"I mean I know I am being reductive to the question but they are pretty white. Hell, I am of Swedish/Norwegian/Scottish descent and I am down right brown compared to the women.",
"Yes, I note the distinct lack of hip and shoulder movement.",
"its both. we dont have a different name for the geography to accommodate the (rather outdated) racial term. its not asian descent either its literally the region and associated peoples/cultures.",
"> The peoples of the Caucasus, or Caucasians, are a diverse group comprising more than 50 ethnic groups throughout the Caucasus region.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_of_the_Caucasus",
"I like this dance... it is good dance.",
"No. It's freaking not.\n\nYou yourself put it \"the caucasus\" \"the Caucasus mountain range\". \n\nI'm talking about the word Caucasian. Yes, I get that its etymology is from the Caucasus mountains.\n\nThe descriptor and still-widely used term for white people in the United States, regardless of whether their ancestors for the last 1,000 came from or passed nearby that region.",
"Nah, I look at it like this. Everybody who looks at the video is pleasantly surprised. I know I was.",
"Is this the same song as the song from the cat jamming out meme video?",
"Suddenly I recall why I only chat on Reddit in smaller subs. \n\nPeople can't be assed to read and comprehend. I've posted multiple times and you all want to be fucking pedants. Fine, enjoy your 'win', folks.",
"Egypt is a land in the north eastern region of Africa.",
"I miss going to the Georgian restaurant in town. Great food, great music, and great dancing. Everyone would get up and dance. I hate dancing, but I enjoyed dancing there. Everyone together, having fun, everyone young or old just dancing. The kids doing a Kazachok, the old man clapping to keep time, spinning and dancing. Always fun.\n\nThey had to go out of business unfortunately but, for a while, it was a wonderful place to go.",
"This is WHACK, just goes to show white people really Can’t Dance lololol",
"When Caucasian became a term associated with white people",
"What did you think the title \"Traditional Caucasian Dance\" meant? I'm genuinely curious.",
"I always find it interesting how ladies can do such simple moves when dancing and it is interesting to watch. Guys doing real estate simple moves like they just don't know how to dance.",
"All kinds of fine in this video",
"lmao yes it fuckin is youre just ignorant af of human history and geography. people from the caucasus region are caucasians. that didnt happen thats from some crock LONG-debunked european race “[theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race)” that basically the rest of the world but the US has gotten over. calling white europeans and descendants caucasians is almost the same as calling native/indigenous americans indians, its a misnomer/misinformation its just persisted a lot longer here for some reason.",
"Sure, since you asked. Given that this is r/videos, I was expecting something like:\n\n* Ashlee Simpson (SNL flub)\n\n* White people trying to dance (badly or incredibly well) to music outside the stereotypically 'white people' music type (hip hop in general, but I wasn't expecting that genre in particular)\n\n* White people trying to dance (badly or incredibly well) to country, swing, or similar stereotypically 'white people' music (my sub-sub guess was drunken Russian dancing)\n\n* Rick Astley, never giving me up.",
"What is their traditional dance then?",
"I did this growing up but it was cuban folklore.",
"Hot damn you're making an ass of yourself. This is awesome",
"Eurasia includes all of Europe.",
"They're not Asian. It's a completely different set of ethnicities, if anything, somewhat roughly close to Middle Eastern. [These guys.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0_19_%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BA.JPG)",
"He thought it meant \"white people from the US\" because we call white people \"caucasian\" in the US. And then he doubled waaaaay down and made himself look pretty dumb.",
"Guns don't have nuts.",
"I think they're talking about the use in English. When people from the Eastern Europe learn English, they have to memorize to stop using that word to avoid confusing foreigners. You just have to remember that \"Caucasian\" in 99% of English media means white people, not highlander [middle-eastern-looking peoples](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0_19_%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BA.JPG) that you knew for all your life.",
"stand strong. No idea why Caucasian = white in todays dialects. \n\n\nas a white person who is not Caucasian i srpport this post and your title.",
"Reminds me of that dance scene from “Rock n Rolla” with a Gerald Butler and Thandiwe Newton",
"Reminds me of the dancing figures in old wind-up music boxes 😅💃",
"[Serious answer, yes.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dishes_from_the_Caucasus) And all of Russia (not to mention [other countries](https://winesgeorgia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Foods1.jpeg)) is taken over by it as a street food and ethnic restaurant theme, along with Central Asian cuisines.",
"Homeboy on the accordion tearing it up!",
"Beautiful.\n\nI've never seen that before.",
"They're all ridiculously attractive",
"Don't. People come with many misconceptions and some ignorance.",
"Eh. Not your fault people are idiots who don't realize that Caucasian referred to people from a certain region long before it applied to all white people.",
"The dancing was pretty, but that music was lovely! I'd love a whole album of that.",
"The men aren't wearing 3 inch heels.",
"Dancing sucked but the girls are fiiiinnne....",
"that's the most caucasian dancing i've ever seen",
"Is there two separate urheimat though, one for Indo-European and then an older one for Proto-Indo-European or is that just a layman completely misunderstanding? It is the first time I'd heard the word urheimat after all.",
"Don't. I learned something today and so have many other redditors. Good on ya!",
"As is tradition",
"they don't seem to be having much fun",
"that music is catchy! Damn",
"I know the one ;)",
"Elaine? I was thinking more like Jennifer Aniston",
"What in the clay-mation futterwhacken is this?",
"As a Caucasian, I wish I'd learned this dance before.",
"Yeah, it's funny. I was in a band with a Georgian girl. Every woman in this video looks like they could be her sister.",
"If that's your type, go to Georgia.",
"Just be humble, and take this as an opportunity to learn something new. There's nothing wrong with being wrong/misinformed. There's something wrong with remaining wrong or doubling down because of pride in the face of new information.",
"Its nice to see a music video that doesn't include people being trampled to death.",
"This is far and away more beautiful than twerking to lil nas x",
"No kidding. This was not how I remembered high school aged girls.",
"The electric slide at a wedding",
"Me: I want to go to Georgia. (The country)\n\nMom: we have Georgia at home.\n\nShit.",
"It's an obsolete term from the 1780s or 1790s, tho idk why it persisted in its prevalent usage in the US and English vernacular. Tbf tho it's only recently that we started to move away from Caucasians as an anthropological classification. I remember still learning about mongoloids in high-school (the obsolete theory grouped people into three broad categories: caucasoid (or Caucasians), mongoloid, and negroid).",
"mah ninja",
"Sure thing, chum.",
"I don't know, I clipped back through various parts of the video and I don't see this. throughout most of the dance everyone's looking down, because that's natural during a technical routine, and then at some moments some of the guys look up and mug at the girls and the crowd (mostly that kid in grey in the middle). I think there's not nearly enough substance here to make cultural judgements like that.",
"Nope. Indo-Europeans came from the Steppes. Nothing to do with the Caucasus mountains. Their main technological development was the chariot. That wouldn’t have happened had they lived in the mountains.",
"what is this style called?",
"Super common during mid adolecesnce I think",
"Step 1: be attractive \n\nStep 2: have rhythm",
"Our race clarifications are whack. Standardized tests and censuses still don't acknowledge Middle Eastern folks. iirc I remember once seeing them lumped with White on a test as if Middle Eastern 😬",
"And for those selecting Caucasian, they then get to go on specifying Hispanic or not.",
"Then you should really check out [Otava Yo](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyCJi-Ht-GPakArh4ZQnVUA)",
"seriously wtf is this, a modeling tryout?",
"I gotta say, those are the most Caucasian dance moves I've ever seen.",
"Damn! I love these videos! It's so awesome to see people dancing in the streets. I wish people danced more where I am (Victoria, Canada). And I love how the first video, those guys didn't turn their nose up at the \"old folksy\" violin music, but they made it cool - together the violinist and the dancers, it was so rad.",
"They're in the audience :-P\n\n(JK, I don't think any of them are ugly.)",
"They do, but in the same incorrect way they used to call every black person \"African American\", even if the person was from Canada and never been to Africa. Unfortunately confusing when people actually use the term correctly.",
"Yall gotta check out [this Georgian music video,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuPfXQEhomo) ახალი კლიპი რაჭაზე",
"If by \"Caucasian\", you mean originating in the Caucusus, I guess you're right.",
"Bullshit.",
"[you are incorrect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKxYPy5w854)",
"Black dress, lace gloves. 🔥",
"Yes sir",
"I emphatically disagree.",
"I don't know...I heard the devil went there looking for souls",
"And here I was, genuinely assuming that the title was ironic.",
"When I see the guys I can't stop thinking of the scene in the Simpsons when the guys all have their chest puff out and cheesing smile at all the people passing through before finally going \"ahh...not a looker in the bunch\"",
"American-Caucasian, yes.",
"It's just an outdated term. Back when it was used (early 1800s) there were officially 3 racial groups. They were Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid or in today's terms european/Middle Eastern, Asian, African.",
"White dress, long black hair.",
"That Georgia's always on my mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi miiind.",
"Heh. That’s more substance than most people usually need when making cultural judgments :-)",
"Blame it on autocorrect.\n\nEdit: thanks for posting this. Quite enjoyable.",
"They're right, though. You keep insisting that it doesn't have two meanings, [but it does](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Caucasian).\n\nIt's *okay to have been wrong about this*. Just absorb the new information and move on. It's no big deal.\n\nBetter that than continuing to fight when you're objectively in the wrong. You interpreted the term one way, when in this instance it's clearly meant *another*, just as legitimate way.\n\nIt's an honest mistake. Not a big deal, dude. Just move on.",
"Why is this getting downvoted? This is exactly what people thought they were going to get when they clicked the link!\n\nI guess the downvotes are coming from the fact that we were all so pleasantly surprised, and satisfied, by the actual video content that we no longer need to see goofy white people dancing :-)",
"Circassian dances are absolutely gorgeous. That whole region is home to some of the most amazing traditional dance and music.\n\nGeorgian dances are wonderful, as well, extremely acrobatic! \nI always loved the traditional Kalmykian dance, looks like a bird guiding a hunting party! https://youtu.be/hBdB5-vmgIY",
"I don't see a single smile from any of the women.",
"That dude checking em all out as they pass by",
"lol welcome to the internet. Great video by the way",
"Georgia at home: guns, obesity, Mountain Dew, Fancy Like Applebees",
"So what you're saying is it's a Harvest Moon festival cut scene?",
"Yep I learnt something new... thanks",
"https://youtu.be/Vt2YIpZWBqA",
"Bzzzt, wrong answer! \n\nI said that *I* was referring to and discussing race when talking about the description of the dancers. \n\nWhen responding to the nonsense, I asked what geography had to do with my statement. The armchair pedants of Reddit decided to educate me in what I supposedly really meant, you included. \n\nStop putting words into my mouth. That’s what annoys the fuck outta me, I never said what you’re claiming at all, so stop trying to be the big internet hero, it’s just obnoxious.",
"Was totally expecting the shuffle clap shuffle clap thing.",
"Cauca-jutsu!",
"I imagine that all white folk are thought of as having sticks shoved up our asses so as to impede our ability to let loose. Yet that doesn't stop us from trying. I'm white and find this hilarious, so it should be okay with all whiteys. BTW, I enjoyed the dancing. Very interesting to watch. The dancers are obviously professional and deservedly so.",
"Am I the only one who expected the clip to be [Ellen dancing in Seinfeld](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HQu_NLRvULM)?",
"It’s true. I’m one of these idiots and I am pleasantly surprised by the video.",
"I would called it a traditional Slavic dance....",
"I'm sorry you're so unhappy about your life and hope one day you're able to find the inner peace you need to keep you from lashing out in frustration. Have a great night, my friend!",
"Damn those women were all hot.",
"The look like it was design in a video game where the designer could not get collusion to work correctly.",
"Lmao okay I’m legit done with this now. You’re so cute, and blocked.",
"You are in the positive, so that is good.",
"Just underscores how badly Caucasians dance!",
"Same.",
"https://c.tenor.com/F_80WDRN8xcAAAAd/mars-attack-flowing-walk.gif",
"Agreed 100%. Schools should stop talk as little as possible about race in regard to the present and the future, and treat people as unique individuals rather than just another member of a race, although of course when historic was racial it should be accurately told.",
"I can see why you'd be expecting that. That's what I expected from the title, too.\n\nStill doesn't explain why you had an utter meltdown and have repeatedly flipped out at people who have only helped you to understand why you misinterpreted it, including those who did so in a friendly, non-confrontational way, but a lot of children are emotionally unable to admit when they were mistaken, so perhaps you just haven't grown up yet.\n\nBy the way, did you know that Caucasian can also mean people from the Caucus region?\n\nReally! It's true!",
"Dear lord, you're awfully sensitive about this. Are you okay?",
"> when I'm obviously talking about race.\n\nWhich is where you were obviously mistaken.\n\nDo you freak out like this when you get your homework wrong, too, or is it only on Reddit?\n\nBecause you're really embarrassing yourself right now.",
"At first I thought it weird, then I remembered I'm greek, and our dancing involves cloth napkins, and breaking various items of tableware. \n\nAlso, this was quite neat to see",
"Hold up. Do you mean to tell me OP put the title at Traditional White Dance?\n\n&#x200B;\n\n&#x200B;\n\n&#x200B;\n\n^(I know it really means Traditional Russian Dance)",
"*coughs*",
"> In the US, one doesn't generally (or, ever) use the term \"Caucasian\" to describe those of asian descent.\n\nBut we **do** use the term to describe people from the Caucasus region, and no amount of childish stomping your feet will change that, which makes **this** the point in the thread where you look at all your angry little posts, realize you're acting like a 4-year-old who wants his ice cream, pull up your big boy pants like an adult, and say, \"Gosh, I guess I expected something different based on the headline. Live and learn!\"\n\nJust kidding! This is the part of the thread where you get angry again because it's **so** annoying to admit you may have been mistaken. Better to pitch a fit than to develop a little emotional maturity!",
"Well also bear in mind the cheerleader effect which adds plus 2 to all stats",
"That’s actually pretty close to the modern genetic group we call west Eurasian (with Indians being related but a bit outside). Interesting.",
"All of those people are traditionally white except Indians. They actually fit the census definition of white.\n\n\n“White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.”",
"Even the term \"native\" has vey questionable origins. No one is really \"native\" to an area. Everyone moved there eventually.",
"The music track was a banger for its whole duration.",
"I've seen the women doing the dance, have never seen the men's side of it.",
"Hope you like languages with like no vowels",
"How many centuries old is this traditional southpark dance?",
"Music was super cool",
"You're probably the only one on Reddit who knows that, besides me.",
"I don't know anything about the cultures of the Caucasus but I like that you have used the word Caucasian correctly and then given an example! So many people have zero idea what that word means.",
"when things get serious [https://www.instagram.com/p/CUJYtA6AU-d/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CUJYtA6AU-d/)",
"The ass on the one with the white dress!!! \nReminds me of the Mexican weather girl.",
"I'm so confused, is this what having a culture is like?",
"Do they just perform at weddings and such? I saw another vid with what looks to be the same group of people. Is it like a good luck thing to have this dance performed at your wedding?",
"The title is referring to the fact that these people are Caucasian, as in the geographical area, not the race. It’s pretty obvious considering not all white people share a tradition dance.",
"Is this where the phrase \"dance like a white person\" comes from?",
"Well now I know why my people can't dance, this just looks like if an alien was trying to blend in.",
"Ah yes traditional stilettos",
"Yeah there's a few of those in my family tree as well",
"I love watching these traditional dances in European and Asian countries.\n\nIn America… we have the chicken dance. Sure it has some of the trimmings of a traditional European dance… OK, one trimming; the accordion.",
"For me, it seemed like they were trying to mimic floating as angels.\nWhile the men just tried to be as macho as they could be\nedit: I like my mucho burrito",
"thanks for this.",
"And?",
"Well, presumably people are or were native to *somewhere* at some point. Probably Eastern Africa or something",
"“This dance is mostly footwork? Let’s keep the camera above the waist, that should look good”",
"I thought that too. The booby aesthetic plus the hand wavy dance.",
" this is ridiculous",
"For those of you wondering, this is Oxford in the south west of England, and this dance is called ‘Pouring If The Tea’. It’s to celebrate the pouring of the first cup of tea after Bonfire Night.",
"Interesting, but a great surprise from what I expected. I was looking forward to a bunch of white people jumping up and down.",
"Well thanks for the clarification cause I’m a Caucasian in the US and I don’t think I could learn that dance.",
"Everyone looks so profoundly nervous",
"Nah come on. A fair skinned blonde/red haired Scottish lass is far paler.",
"Looks like they’re doing the Gurdjieff Movements on shrooms",
"What did I just watch",
"The Hole Enchilada",
"This is Caucasia. I visited there once when I was in the army. I was the only person in the room from Africa.\n\nYou have no idea what it's like being the only African in a room full of Caucasians. I looked like an idiot when I tried to dance.",
"God, I bet you jerked off hard to that “win”, eh champ? \n\nI love the armchair therapists and evaluators here. You guys are ridiculous. So far it’s been a “meltdown” and now “pitching a fit” for daring to reply with attitude to people being pedantic or putting words into my mouth. \n\nOh no!!! I bet this comment means I just threw myself onto the ground screaming! 😂\n\nLol can’t wait to see what other bs from the experts is coming up.",
"But a Schuhplattler is an European dance…?",
"Beautiful.",
"Amen.",
"Watch it again... With Ambien!",
"Wow, I need tickets to the smoke show next time",
"Saw title and was expecting this instead [https://youtu.be/HQu\\_NLRvULM](https://youtu.be/HQu_NLRvULM)",
"Beautiful dancing! Really cool",
"I wish I had that many friends",
"Yes considering I skipped ahead to the part that seemed like a baroque cover of Get Busy",
"Just a big game of \"13 or 30?\" \n\nThis has the same energy as a church youth group mixer.",
"And here I was expecting the cha cha slide.",
"So much elegance. Somehow it made these beautiful women EXCEPTIONALLY beautiful. And the men looked confident as hell.\n\nBravo.",
"Nice simple dance when you are plastered off your face from the local Vodka.",
"I was expecting Cotton Eye Joe",
"I mean they're dancers",
"Oh shit, I'm literally watching The Matrix rtfn and Neo just got awakened. Normally I'd consider this coincidence and not probidence but I just finished watching Jeff, Who Lives At Home so maybe this is a sign.",
"And don’t forget the media player visualizations in the back.",
"My first thought was, if this is so traditional then why are there only eight couples? At weddings and such you see 50-80 people doing the traditional dances.",
"I fell down the rabbit hole and watched professional dancers in traditional costumes. The men danced on top toes. Both men and women wear really long drooping sleeves which emphasizes those gentle arm movements. They walk so smoothly they look like they're floating.",
"Then we're all natives!",
">positive terminal actually holding all the electrons.\n\nHol up. I think you're misunderstanding the current & passive sign conventions. Current is positive charge flowing between a potential difference (high voltage to low voltage). Since positive charges aren't really moving, negative charges (electrons) truly flow in the opposite direction. Excess free electrons are on the negative terminal of the battery, and all the holes (missing electrons) are on the positive terminal. Electrons flow from negative to positive terminals through the circuit, which is equivalent to positive charges flowing through the circuit from positive to negative. \n\nBtw, Ben Franklin is to blame for this.",
"Caucasian? This is such a misleading term as the definitions are so very fucked.\n\nThe google definition is hilarious. Defines it as NA but then specifies: \"of European origin\", So... Of European origin and not NA...\nIt then goes on to list a second definition, which is neither European nor NA, but is rather Southern-Russian, specifically from the caucuses, AKA eastern Europeans.\n\n\nSee the problem with this title/wording, is I guess the word is actually used correctly here in your instance, but in normal, everyday usage it has been warped so far beyond its original meaning its created a direct conflict in the definition's associations with simply being white.\n\n\nWhat a horrible word.",
"Lol imagine if each dude back handed the chicks right in the face in the beginning",
"Red dress wants to be the center of attention, you know it. 😆",
"Oh, from the Caucasus region. Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, etc.",
"Honest question, are the men as attractive to the people attracted to men, as the women are to the \"us\" that like these women? Cause they are so hot.",
"Imagine if we learned this in school instead of fucking square dancing!",
"You're right. Golly this thread has a heck of a train wreck.\n\nJust for your cake day. happy cake day.",
"You've never worked on an AR15 then. The barrel is secured by a nut and certain buffer tubes are secured by a castle nut.",
"a \"Nice dance, thanks for the video\" would have been enought",
"> Rick Astley, never giving me up.\n\nNGL the bartender guy was definitely the star dancer on that music video.",
"It gets muddy around the Achaemenid Empire when many kingdoms along the Caucuses became tributary states to the Persian Empire. Many their ancestors still live in Iran today.",
"> Something to do with the theory that Noah's Arc landed in the Caucasus. The term then got picked up from there by the anthropologists trying to make a science of the study of race. **It's** ~~all kinda~~ **stupid.**\n\nFTFY",
"> Schools should stop talk as little as possible about race in regard to the present and the future, and treat people as unique individuals rather than just another member of a race, although of course when historic was racial it should be accurately told.\n\nAs nice as it would be, the ideal world doesn't work this way. You can't bury your head in the sand hoping racism will go away because folks at home and in their community will still *talk about it*. And not in the way you were hoping. \n\nI recall a classmate in health class very cautiously, and very seriously asked if Asian women have sideways vaginas. This was in highschool. It was like the year after 9-11. Amazing what not talking about things leads to.",
"Hey! You best be staying away from my future ex-wife!!",
"Istanbul was once Constantinople",
"Don't be. It's not the title the problem it's the ignorant people...",
"Not to my length, not to my girth.",
"Plenty of us don't use the term... like that. \n\nIt seems to be a holdover in one country.",
"Constantinople was the capital city of fhe Byzantine Empire.",
"When the dance instructor scolds you for not being stiff enough",
"brainrot",
"Are they vampires",
"they all look like real life princesses of different realms",
"Blox don’t have tinders. Is a 345 an AR15? \n\nIs a buffer tube without a castle nut as secure as one with a manor knight?",
"This part of the world is kind of known for its people being especially beautiful.",
"Didn’t know white people had an official dance.",
"Now explain why I got downvoted and you got upvoted. Boy, what a community we have here.",
"Several of the dancers looked like they briefly considered having fun.",
"She's having her period, right?",
"So are the dudes and one is rocking my lump physique",
"Bruh",
"[I was expecting the other Caucasians dancing](https://youtu.be/EQPRFqHKZhg)",
"I think they are wearing corsets. They all have a very uniform, unnatural shape. I mean, you could attribute the stiffness to the nature of this dance, and the perky busts to push-up bras, but their peculiar appearance screams corsets. \n\nSource: am gothy, own corsets, have seen a lot of people in corsets.",
"Technically everyone is of African descent if I'm not mistaken.",
"Which is bogus too, not all original peoples(and what is the cut off there?) of Europe are what would be called \"white\" in the US. \n\nThere is the obvious Roma people(Arrival: 1500 years ago), as well as the Jews(Roman Era), and if those aren't considered original (and they aren't indigenous), then surely the Sámi people are, and they are quite a bit like Inuit and northern people of North America. In fact, they look a good deal like the people of the Canadian Boreal Forest, where I live. \n\nhttps://monovisions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/vintage-sami-people-and-arctic-1900s-13.jpg\n\nMany of them do have blond hair and blue eyes today from intermarriage(and that is true of my area too), so I went with an old black and white group photo.",
"I can't wait to see this on /r/ShitAmericansSay",
"We're so deep inside Yankovic's innards that I can't tell if this comment is supposed to be sarcastic or not anymore. Someone chime in please?",
"If you were braver, you’d have posted it there already. If you were funnier, it might even have a witty headline!",
"Middle easterners are Asian.",
"That song slaps. The men are handsome. The women are beautiful. The dance looks super fun. \n\nI loved everything about this video. \n\nThat’ll be all.",
"For a moment I thought I was going to be watching some silly video of Anglo women dancing, then I got to see a really beautiful and fun ball, literal Caucasian lol",
"Because, you're lame",
"Reminds me of noho hank",
"I’m sure the traditional dress would be longer so that you can’t see their feet and then it would look like they are floating",
"hcd 🥳🎂🍰",
"It's mostly used in America, in the rest of the world words like European or simply white are much more common terms to refer to people with a light complexion.",
"youre white not caucasian (unless..?) and im sure you could with some practice!",
"Those chicks are hot.",
"The women are gorgeous and the men all look like they work in IT",
"https://open.spotify.com/track/00sUN71FyCvmZkc9tmtBxc?si=gTRSVGTGTxeUo0Rmw9gV2Q&context=spotify%3Asearch%3Alaperise",
"I'm English. I live in the UK. I've only been to Eastern Europe for a few days, one time.\n\nWhenever I see caucasian meaning 'white people' I always feel like it's very weird; and even then, I only really started to see that when I lived in the US a few years ago.",
"This is cool! Really enjoyed this.",
"low BMI, cant spot any trash tattoos or piercings. Yep, rare these days",
"They would still be taking smaller steps. The dance is traditionally conducted in long dresses which emphasizes the flowing grace of the women. Done correctly, the women look like they're floating just above the ground.",
"Man if electrons flowing backwards doesn't drive me crazy. Even worse is working in a mixed systems environment where we have both electronics and hydraulics. A closed valve means no fluid flow but a closed switch means absolutely electron flow. Then you start closing hydraulic switches and opening electric valves.",
"I choose the woman in red",
"Well, it clearly says \"Circassian\" on the video...",
"Why the fuck would you think that?",
"Well, the region *is* one of the major sources of early migration into Europe.",
"Haha yes. This is about a cultural dance from another country but he brought up the USA and wanted to make it all about himself. Some people can be so oblivious.",
"I enjoyed the goofy dancing video! And there's nothing wrong with goofy dancing. I guess some people got defensive &/or ashamed.",
"How did they film her \"walking\" style?",
"https://youtube.com/watch?v=q8ZisDHg6v0&feature=share\n\nMusic reminds me of this scene from Last of the Mohicans.",
"Yep.",
"I wish I had an Appetizer Lobster before the Main Lobster and Dessert Lobster.",
"But do their boys and girls dance as well as those youngsters in the video?",
"But the audience includes us. :(",
"I'm crying. Omg I can't breathe!",
">You can't bury your head in the sand hoping racism\n\nI think what he's saying is that if you teach children that skin pigmentation sets people apart, then racism will happen naturally. Teaching them that the differences between races are superficial and open to manipulation, might be better.",
"Depends upon how far back you want to go.\n\nTechnically we're all descended from monocellular oceanic beings.",
"Exactly my thoughts. Perfect example.",
"That read like Lovecraft describing a character.",
"It'sike how when you watch any video of a guitarist from the 70's the camera is always tight on their face. I'm here to see them play, not to look at the mad faces they pull.",
"It can't be both?",
"If you really want your mind blown on the idea of race being a construct think of Lucielle Ball who was married to Cuban Dezi Arnaz. Now ask yourself this: was the marriage seen on I Love Lucy in the 1950s an interracial marriage? Do you think anyone in 1950s America would have allowed an interracial couple on TV when they weren’t even showing couples with multiple kids sleeping in the same bed? \n\nCubans were “white” in the 1950s but somehow have become “Hispanic” over time, oddly it seems to have happened sometime around the Socialist Revolution in Cuba. Just like Italians weren’t considered “white” when they had a mass migration to the states. \n\nOf course race is a construct.",
"I'd never heard the term 'Caucasian' until the show Cops started airing in the UK on Sky TV back in the 90's, and it wasn't immediately obvious to me at the time that whenever they said it, they meant the perp was a white guy. \nI just thought it was another minority over there like Hispanic or African American.",
"Reminded me of this: https://youtu.be/_2JcYMpzcMc\n\nDo they have similar cultural origins?",
"But this isn't about European or North American geography? Personally I'd think that people from the US should be a bit more knowledgeable about the Middle East given their recent military campaigns there. \n\nAnd if you think that it's unfair to compare the geographical knowledge of Europeans of North America to knowledge of Americans to Europe, why not compare their knowledge of a different region like Central Africa or East Asia? That would paint a clearer picture IMO",
"Having learned both the right and left hand rule (between physics's viewpoint vs electrical engineering). So much unnecessary confusion.",
"From the context it's very clear that \"Caucasian\" refers to a region. So your comment was redundant and therefore downvoted. The reply reads very sarcastic and sarcastic replies to stupid comments are often upvoted",
"Fuck me, this looks like so much fun. Their smiles, dress, movement - They are killing it.",
"Can’t tell if op is unironic about the title or not",
"See my last bit! :)",
"Is that from Mars Attacks?",
"We’re all natives of Earth. Unless life originally came to Earth on an asteroid. Then I guess we’re all illegal immigrants. \n\nPlease don’t tell the space police. I’ve got a family to feed.",
"> It is the first time I'd heard the word urheimat after all.\n\nYou gotta listen to more Rammstein.",
"[What's your explanation for this then?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc17H68IKMs)",
"I'm sorry, I still don't understand. If its the difference in potential that drives electrical flow, does that mean the place of lower potential has more electrons (which is the negative terminal?)",
"I identify as star dust",
"I thought I was in for some biting satire but that's was actually really cool.",
"Nah that's a Russian one. [Here's a vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwbcTYQ84dU).",
"Got to keep that pimp hand strong",
"I’ve seen a few of these dance videos where the women are wearing a gown or a dress that goes to the floor, and when they move like this they seem to be gliding around so gracefully.",
"Titles must be quoted from whatever your posting, which is plenty funny.",
"In the UK we just call ourselves white thanks.",
"This doesn’t look fun. They’re barely smiling.",
"I am very patient hydrogen.",
"Those women were actually really distracting. I barely ever found myself appreciating their foot work because they were all so attractive.",
"ACK!",
"Gods I was young then",
"…or were you distracted by the girl in the red dress?",
"o.o",
"I’m sorry but this is the traditional Caucasian dance: https://c.tenor.com/eiVdBgW6fLcAAAAC/dance-carlton.gif",
"The women in black and red are super pale! They're not Northern European looking, but they're definitely white.",
"I am imagining this dance to be performed by ladies and gentlemen in a ball in Tolstoy's War and Peace.",
"Which country is this from specifically? I looked up Caucasian and it could be Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, etc...?",
"Outside stuffy western weddings, it’s not unusual for cultures to bring performers in as wedding/event entertainment.\n\nWe’ve just restricted it to half time at sporting events.",
"All these beautiful women and then the boys looking like potatos.",
"Yep, now replaced by whatever the hell nightclubs are. It was only really the 1970s that ceilidhs stopped being the main night-time event in most of Scotland for teenagers. Shame, really.\n\n\nNot that I'm a *fan* of my dad telling stories about dancing with the girl he fancied, cycling her back to her father's farm at 5am, and fingering her in the barn before her mum woke up and made him butteries, but it does have a nostalgic glow.",
"The other guy's comment is also true, but Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan all have an absolutely astounding amount of plastic surgery going on. \n\nIn the west it's not scandalous but it is seen as slightly embarrassing and generally not drawn attention to. The girls I've dated from the Caucasus and their friends happily compare, contrast, complain about their parents not paying for what they wanted, and it's a bit wild. They look great... for a while.",
"Thank you! Always wondered why they tell you to disconnect the negative terminal instead of positive when working on your car.",
"She got it going on in the back, that’s for sure.",
"Daaaaang those hips didn’t move once!",
"Exactly what I thought of.",
"Mucho que?",
"Get off my ocean",
"That was really cool. Good to see so many young people doing it to keep the tradition going",
"People from Maine upvoting while nodding to themselves without realizing it’s a joke",
"Correct! Voltage is a measure of the potential energy a charge has relitive to its surroundings, similar to the potential energy a mass has in a gravitational field.\n\nNegative voltage (relitive to neutral) means there is energy stored in a collection of negative charges. -Voltage=Joules/(-Coulombs). Similarly, positive voltage implies energy stored in an absence of electrons. +V=J/(+C)",
"Caucasian stems from the Caucasus mountains (in Europe and Asia)\n\nThere was a (now-disproven) race theory of a Caucasian origin of humanity. It’s used as a term for white folks in the USA (Murica!) still but it’s pretty ambiguous as it can pertain to many different cultural origins.",
"It reminded me of [women I've seen dancing](https://youtu.be/P9_mH82hBdc?t=5).",
"It's primarily due to how car frames are usually connected to the negative terminal so that the frame is grounded and won't become energized if there is a short circuit. If you put an uninsulated wrench on the positive terminal and contact the frame, you've just created a short circuit. Disconnecting one terminal provides enough electrical isolation to prevent short circuits, and since you should disconnect the negative one first, it's the only one you need to disconnect.",
"Ah that makes sense thanks",
"From other comments they're professionals performing at a wedding probably.\n\nThis is a professional performance. This cant be the bridal party unless one of the dancers is getting married. Unlikely.",
"Wow thanks for the anthropology lesson actually. Typically heard those terms as pejorative but it all makes sense in context with one another. Scientific terminology is often warped to insult it seems.",
"Fascinating. Thanks for sharing!",
"Apparently, WhyZeeGuy doesn't think that's obvious at all, which his why they think we're the only two who know that the Caucusus IS the origin. So, no, you're wrong. But whatever, you probably didn't know it either, and given that the overwhelming usage of \"caucasian\" is to refer to a racial group, your premise isn't worth shit. But as a said, whatever. Get back in your cesspool with the rest of your little turds.",
"https://youtu.be/jsl3IBAsEH4",
"we simply do everything better, its just how it is",
"how many NNN\"s did this video bust ??",
"I can't get enough of this video. The more I watch it the more I like it. I really love the study of contrasts here. The womens movements are all fluid and graceful while the mens are sharp and energetic. And the whole thing and how the contrasts come together is just beautifully executed.\n\nOP, I know you've caught some flack from people who don't realize the difference between someone from the Caucasus and a white person, but thank you for posting this.",
"In a context of what looks like an Iraqi dance, \"traditional white people dance\" makes absolutely no sense. I mean, the video clearly isn't a r/WhitePeopleTwitter\\-esque joke. If you can spare a follow-up thought, it would probably read something like \"hey wait maybe 'caucasian' refers to something else than white people in general\"\n\nPersonally I wasn't aware WhyZeeGuy was the arbiter of obviousness, though I think they were sarcastic. You know, because there are absolutely no people from the Middle East on reddit who would know that, nor anyone who happens to be geographically knowledgeable. For that I apologize, as do I for answering your request for an explanation with an explanation.",
"A couple of those guys look like if they miss a beat they are going to get shot.",
"nice!!",
"Fuck I wish I had a culture with traditions to be part of.",
"GO FIND THE BREASTPLATE STRECHER, NOW!",
"This is kinda cool it reminds me of like one of those weird elaborate clocks with the people coming otu",
"In title of video it's says \"Circassian\",they are people(group of ethnicities, if I am correct)that lives in north Caucasus. which is part of russia, but most(2 milions) Circassians lives in Turkey while in Russia only 700k",
"We're all natives on this blessed day :)",
"Oh nice! Thank you so much!",
"From all of the possible videos you picked the least effort one lol tiktok thots are light-years ahead of this",
"Is that... Is that it?",
"So good I had to watch it twice.",
"The middle east is asian",
"These girls are not Georgian and are also definitely not comparable at all to armenians and azerbaijanis"
] | 496 |
videos
|
Traditional Caucasian Dance
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZoSYsNADtY
|
/r/videos/comments/qq7twt/this_movie_was_released_in_1968/
|
[
"2001 space oddysee",
"This movie I saw when it first came out, at the same time I was nearly done with the book. It set the bar so damn high for me.",
"Zarathustra said so too!",
"I liked the movie a lot more when rewatching it after having read the book, stuff suddenly made a lot more sense.",
"And its not very good as a movie. \n\nI've rewacthed it at least 5 separate times, maybe for its time, and the visuals its considered \"art\" but as a movie the story really lets it down",
"modern day business/first class on planes was definitely inspired by this movie",
"It’s an alchemical allegory. Not so much a conventional story.",
"That psychedelic sequence at the end just goes on forever",
"Art for the sake of art doesn't make it a good movie.",
"The story is extremely good. 2001 Space Odyssey is the best sci-fi movie made so far.",
"Kubrick was apparently an absolute nightmare to work with, but damn the guy made films.",
"And still remains one of the most realistic depictions of space in popular media. Even modern space/sci fi films and TV shows can't help but flash it up despite our wildly more comprehensive understanding of the universe relative to 1968.\n\nMake sci-fi great again!",
"Something crazy about this sequence is that it was made before we had color satellite pictures of earth so they just had to guess at what it looks like from space.",
"In this case, “also” means “thus”, not “in addition “",
"An amazing achievement, but for perspective the SR71 Blackbird was flying in 1964.\n\nWe've come so far, and yet haven't moved an inch.",
"There had already been color photos taken by satellites (and astronauts) well before that. In 1967 the first full color photo of an entire hemisphere had been made by the ATS-3 satellite.",
"Hell, the video screens in the seat backs are now ubiquitous.",
"Can you describe what it was like to see it at the time? I first saw it in the 90's, and it absolutely blew me away. I can't imagine what it was like back then.",
"The closest we have is The Expanse, and it still relies on some pretty large leaps of tech.",
"I saw the 4K release of this back in 2018 at the Alamo Drafthouse after taking edibles. It was just me and one other guy there, and he sat far from me. I took more edibles during the intermission and they kicked in during the wormhole sequence. It was one of the most intense theater experiences I’ve ever had and it felt like it was just for me. Great film.",
"I love when shows and movies get some little detail right. One of my favorites is the star fury from babylon 5. Go, stop, change direction, go. The first season did a really good job of displaying how complicated a small fighters operation would be in space without actually writing it out.",
"But that's not funny...",
"Holy shit. Thank you for pointing that out !",
"\"I saw the 4K release of this back in 2018 at the Alamo Drafthouse after taking edibles.\"\n\nIf that isn't a great first sentence, I don't know what is.",
"I take it as such; it shows human evolution, and also depicts HAL as developing fear and becoming more than just a computer.",
"It helps to remember that back in 1968 there was no back-of-the-mind thought of “CGI”. It wasn’t a thing then at all, and there is no CGI in this film. So a bunch of it just looked like magic. Like the reduction of gravity as Bowman and Poole climbed stairs from the rim of the centrifuge to the center. Like the helmetless emergency airlock entry. A lot of it rang so *true*, like the silence of space and the Hilton on the space station. Then there were the Kubrick-being-Kubrick touches, like the musical score and the final sterile scenes of the transition from Man to Starchild, which you just had to admire and decide later whether you liked them.",
"It's just so... *aggressively* Austinite.",
"Whoever painted that depiction of Earth did an amazing job.",
"I think you have a right to your opinion, but man do I disagree with it. One of Kubrick's best.",
"The movie must really suck ass if you rewatched it 5 times.",
"1) I like watching movies\n\n2) I will rewatch movies and shows that are popular, even if I dislike them initially. Some shows will eventually become better on rewatch, Arrested Development and Community for example get better. Some movies and shows, regardless of how many times I rewatch them just don't get better. 2001 A space oddysey falls into that category. Then there are things I will never rewatch, that category pretty much only has Game of Thrones and the Avatar the last Air bender movie",
"How did the rest of the audience react? Occasionally people will post audio recordings of cinema audiences watching movies from decades ago, and I'm always surprised by how often people used to gasp and cheer in the middle of a movie.",
"Well, one thing was the intermission. That was a bold move, gave some room to chatter. I think a lot of people who came hated it, as much as other people loved it.",
"Eating chips salsa and queso at an Alamo Drafthouse screening of this movie while during a quite scene is the epitome of aggressive Austinite.",
"> alchemical \n\ninvolving a seemingly magical process of transformation, creation, or combination.",
"I guess having no imagination means you'll never really watch a good movie then. I feel for you.",
"I waited to watch this for a long long time. Don't be like me, this is an incredible movie.",
"That's still holding up pretty well.",
"And now of course I need to listen to [Pink Floyd Echoes synced to 2001](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn7MmS3vazU)",
"I got to see the 70mm print at the Drafthouse without edibles, but was still mind blowing!",
"Shut the fuck up, condescending asshole. What makes you a movie expert all of a sudden ?",
"I was kind of joking but with such a visceral reaction like that, damn dude I guess I hit the nail directly on the head.\n\nNow I really do feel sorry for you!",
"I haven't read up on this in a while but iirc production began in 1964 and this particular scene was being produced before those images.",
"Those screens in the cockpit at 3:44 are some of the first uses of computer-generated imagery in film — albeit in a very primitive form. They made some drawings with a pen plotter, converted them to negatives, and displayed them via slide projectors set up to blink the lamp and create an animated effect.",
"Seeing a lot of condescening movie snobs like you who think this movie is good because of how artistic it is and that its \"a metaphor\" \n\nThat doesn't make it a good movie.",
">One of my favorites is the star fury from babylon 5. Go, stop, change direction, go. \n\nAlways appreciated this. Space ships do not fly like airplanes.",
"It came out in cinerama- which was a very widescreen experience - so ahead of its time",
"It's one of the early examples of a multi-media (notice the hyphen) franchises. Clarke and Kubrick worked together on this project from the ground up irrc; and the movie and the book are meant to complement each other in different ways. These days it's never as grandiose but more common (think having to have watched MCU TV shows or have read some comics to understand what's going on in some of the movies). Back then, it was novel and they made it work incredibly well right out the gate.\n\nI remember reading the book, then watching the movie, then immediately wanting to go back to re-read the book. Because at first you *need* the book to appreciate and understand what's going on in the movie, but to an extent you *need* the imagery of the movie just as much to really make the book come to life, regardless of how great your own imagination is, because the movie isn't an adaptation as much as it is an extension of the authors' vision.",
"Omg totally. I always recommend the book if no one has read it. The whole ending sequence makes way more sense. And the beginning. And the middle.",
"[ **Jump to 03:44 @** 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) - 'The Blue Danube' (waltz) scene [1080p]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZoSYsNADtY&t=0h3m44s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Screen Themes, Video Popularity: 98.04%, Video Length: [04:21])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@03:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZoSYsNADtY&t=0h3m39s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"This is also 2 years after it was proven that two crafts in space can rendezvous and dock with each other. The movie then predicted how such applications would change spacetravel. Brilliant.",
"An absolute classic. And I like the way Braben & Bell got inspired by this for the game \"Elite\". Whenever I hear the \"Blue Danube\", my fingers twitch, remembering over a hundred attempts to get the rotation right to get into that damn station!",
"Given the fact that we actually landed on the moon a year later I don’t know why it’s so surprising we could make a movie about space in 1968.",
"There is some brilliant editing and acting in there.\n\nThe guy asleep in the chair lifting and wobbling his arm a little bit to simulate it being in zero-g is a subtle but great touch.",
"Can you spoil it for us",
"I thought you only got the music after you were successful enough to buy a docking computer?",
"I still know a lot of people who gave the movie a \"fair viewing\" but hated it, it's just not what everyone wants out of a movie, I guess they will just miss out",
"Not really. Basically the monoliths advanced the monkeys to find the best one. Advanced civilization. But the ending sequence is too much to explain. Arthur Clarke does it so much better.",
"Also there's a huge conspiracy theory that the moon landing didn't happen and was faked, and was DIRECTED by Stanley Kubrick.\n\nPeople sure do love connecting dots wherever possible....",
"Wonderful film. Just want to point out that you can actually see movement in the windows of the Pan Am ship. I remember watching making-of docs of films made 30 years later, where the filmmakers were bragging about the details of movement in space ship windows.",
"Facts. His films are in a class of their own",
"I always think about this movie when people talk about \"how good star wars looked for its time\". Meanwhile this movie is 10 years older yet looks like it was made today.",
"Anyone else have a physics teacher ask you to calculate how fast the space station was spinning?",
"No need for you to justify your lack of imagination. \n\nHave a nice day, or at least try to!",
"I enjoyed the expanse, but the science is complete nonsense, not just the fact that they can move fast, but the depictions of distance make no sense.",
"The distances actually *DO* make sense, if you have continuous acceleration. Scott Manley does a great video on it.\n\nI think this is it. His stuff is great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIaGXcEnC74&t=3s\n\nOne issue they have from a science standpoint is what to do with the heat. Sure, we can come up with ways to accelerate that way (like using metallic hydrogen), but getting rid of that amount of heat is basically possible. It's comically hard. \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWZqp0QoXcw",
"The only thing not realistic (alien stuff aside) is the insane efficiency of the Epstein drive. Basically all of the energy from the fusion reactor is being used for propulsion. However IF you could make that happen, the speeds would be possible. You could go from Earth to Saturn in a few weeks at 1G acceleration.\n\nAside from that, the science is incredibly accurate.",
"Absolutely blew my mind seeing the premier in the theatre when I was 12 years old. Of course I didn't quite understand it at the time but the visuals alone left an impression that made it one of the most memorable events of my lifetime.",
"https://youtu.be/0MjpOZT6W9w?t=4",
"Full Metal Jacket and the Shining are infinitely better \n\n2001 A space odyssey is the same as clockwork orange. Art films that were revolutionary for their time.. but entirely overhyped, and with lousy \"stories\", they are not very good movies\n\nTo each their own",
"It's a super gripping movie and has a ton of depth and cinematic merit to make it an enduring classic. Also quite an unpleasant movie, Kubrick really designs every scene and visual to be as brutal and scary as possible, even the appearance of their space ship suggests death right from the outset. Unpleasant and I can't say I liked the end scenes with the baby and the weird room but overall it 100% earns its reputation as a classic",
"Good film to watch on acid",
"I can totally see why idiots thought Kubrick was hired to fake the moon landings.",
"I saw it when it came out as well, but I was only 10. *The Blue Danube* waltz is still what comes to mind when I see videos of orbiting spacecraft.\n\nAlso: As a kid in 1969, with this and the moon landing, it felt like anything was possible. I certainly didn't expect (*broadly sweeps hand*) this...",
"The Author(s) consulted with a lot of actual physicists on what would and wouldnt work. They HAD to handwave the epstein drive (Really just a hyper-efficient fusion engine) or else none of it would work. Thats basically the only thing, minus aliens.",
"Looks so much better than todays CGI garbage.",
"and that fukin monolith music....",
"Here is an article about it. I think this guy also has a video on YouTube. https://www.alchemylab.com/alchemical_kubrick.htm\n\nI guess it’s about the transformation of the human spirit.",
"You make no sense, so why did you rewatch it after 2nd time you watched it?",
"Favorite movie of all time, period. It’s such a marvel of filmmaking.",
"The making of the movie had been the subject of magazine stories for a year before the movie came out, so I was expecting some of the special effects, BUT... the experience was still unbelievable. First run was in cinemascope, the wide screen format of the day, so visually it surpassed anything I had ever seen on a screen. I believe there was only one theater in Atlanta that was capable and I was in the front row of the balcony. When it got to the trippy light sequence, that 13 year old me was hanging on to the arm of the seat and wondering if that was what it was like to take an acid trip. Here 53 years later, it is still a vivid memory and , for me, set the bar for cinema effects until CGI took over.",
"look at jurassic park compared to the modern sequels.",
"> Space ships do not fly like airplanes.\n\nTo be fair, this assumes fuel limitations and \"optimal\" flight characteristics to reduce g-forces, right? \n\nAssuming you had (effectively infinite) fuel stores, you could have vectored thrust in all axes at once, which could be used to zero out any X/Y velocity when \"banking\" so that a zero-G craft could fly much like an aircraft in aerodynamic conditions. \n\nYou'd need pretty high impulse reaction thrusters for any craft with real mass/inertia, but if \"inertial dampeners\" were a thing like they are in many sci-fi stories, (which basically approximate drag) you could totally fly in space like a fighter plane.",
"One of my favorite flicks, easily. Was lucky enough to see the Nolan 70mm re-release a couple years ago at the Cineramadome in Hollywood. It was fantastic and SUPER loud!",
"I love this movie.",
"And the floating pen is just stuck to a big piece of glass that they rotated really slowly lol! So great…",
"He was such a stickler for realism, he would have just actually gone to the moon to film it lol.",
"What part of \n\n> 1) I like watching movies\n> \n> 2) I will rewatch movies and shows that are popular, even if I dislike them initially. Some shows will eventually become better on rewatch, Arrested Development and Community for example get better. Some movies and shows, regardless of how many times I rewatch them just don't get better. 2001 A space oddysey falls into that category. Then there are things I will never rewatch, that category pretty much only has Game of Thrones and the Avatar the last Air bender movie\n\nDid you not understand ?",
"You said some movies don’t get better regardless of how many times you watch them. Why the hell did you rewatch it 3rd or 4th or 5th time after watching it the second time and knowing it won’t get better?\n\nAlso you will never know if game of thrones won’t get better unless you rewatch it 5 times like you did to Space Odyssey.\n\nYou’re talking out of your ass",
"Technically this was superior. But narratively I liked Spartacus better.",
" i love nietzsche",
"In case anyone was wondering about the flight attendant and the pen: Double-stick tape on a pane of glass. I believe double stick tape had only just been invented. Such a brilliantly simple way to handle such an underrated effect.",
"Movies try to hard these days to be more visually spectacular than necessary. Star Wars prequels for example. They all have to be more spectacular than the rest, but it’s just approaching the passive irrelevance of a screensaver. \n\nI like more realistic stuff like this. Battlestar djd it pretty good, while using CGI. The new star treks did not.",
"Man I've never seen this but I gotta",
"Check out the movie Grand Prix. It was filmed in the 60s but to this day it's still one of the best shot race movies.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/XsJ8aYc7AHM",
"You could recreate a lot of this just with blender and after effects.",
"As someone who also grew up in the 60’s with optimistic visions of the future, I have been sadly echoing the sentiment of your last sentence a lot for the last few years. Never expected to see a world 50 years later where there are so many ignorant people and actually proud of their ignorance. Sigh.",
"And when you see the NASA Apollo films from the late 60s, it's clear that Kubrick's vision was essentially to accurately extrapolate the future from that footage. It's no wonder why people think he faked the Apollo 11 footage .",
"Yup, way better.",
"it was released to the past from the future in 1968. Who knows what the actual origin date was.",
"Well you can see how fast it was rotating. For extra credit, calculate the radius of the space station, given that the goal is 1 gee at the rim.",
"Saw this a couple years ago on IMAX, shit blew my fucking mind.",
"Yea maybe that was it. Whatever it was, I can almost guarantee I got the wrong answer or cheated off my much much much smarter girlfriend at the time.",
"Was that a vape she tucked into his pocket? Ahead of its time.",
"The attention to detail regarding the special effects and what was perceived to be future reality cannot be overstated and is SOOO realistic, much of it is taken for granted...even today. Notice the seat back TV? Imagined at a time the majority of televisions in America were black and white cabinet sets. The floating hand in zero g? The velcro slippers? The movement of the reflected light as the ship rotates? Yes, the fact this was accomplished in 1968...BEFORE we landed on the moon...still boggles my mind. Many viewers thought the austrolopithicene creatures at the beginning of the movie were accomplished using real monkeys when they were actors in suits. Ironic fact: the Oscar for makeup that year went to the Planet of the Apes instead.",
"Great movie",
"Betty White was 46 years old when this came out.\n\nThis came out 53 years ago.\n\nI'm not quite 46 yet.",
"As much as I love this film a good 30 mins of it should've been cut",
"The book and the movie were written simultaneously and were meant to be complementary to each other. I highly recommend reading and watching, it’s different than most other book/movie experiences.",
">it was made before we had color satellite pictures of earth\n\nNot true. You may want to read this:\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\\_of\\_first\\_images\\_of\\_Earth\\_from\\_space",
"By viewing the world through this new found connectivity, you're seeing the stupidity that's always been an inherent feature of our emerging species. Idiots back in the day just had their own little circle of idiot friends to share with. Everyone has a camera and microphone these days, and the whole world to share it with.\n\nI grew up in the eighties with optimism for the future, and I still have that optimism. We've got some significant problems to solve right now, but along with the relentless stupidity that spans across generations, we as a species are also great problem solvers.",
"Wow, I am envious of you. You were at the perfect age, in the perfect seat, in the perfect theater, for the perfect movie of our time.\n\nTruly, not many people alive on this planet got to experience what you did.",
"I saw a 70mm showing of this at the Capitol theater in Sacramento. It really did the movie justice.",
"The point you make in your first paragraph is spot on!! Idiots can network outside their little circles thanks to the internet and social media. The sheer numbers of them is what is so depressing.",
"Kubrick, what a master. Love all his work but nothing makes me feel what I feel as Eyes Wide Shut does. Can't even describe it.",
"I think it was implied to be a problem with initial programming. HAL prioritizes the mission over the humans' lives and assesses that the pilots will jeopardize the mission so he attempts to eliminate them. What is really creepy is when he's \"pleading\" with Dave at the end to not shut him down.",
"As opposed to art for the sake of...?",
"It's clear to me you're not smart enough to appreciate it.",
"Funding has always been the issue. It was easy to fund a space race in the 60s to beat Russia. Thankfully, privatized space exploration will get us back on track. SpaceX is already making incredible progress.",
"I bet. When someone has a true vision, better get the hell out of the way.",
"it's probably one of the better sci fi shows in terms of tech.",
"When I watched this video Elite Dangerous came to mind immediately!",
"This movie came out before we had a good color image of the earth from space.",
"\"Do you have any idea how fake the lighting would look in a studio? I need some budget to get to the moon to get a good lighting!\"\n\n- Kubrick, probably",
"And make Armstrong repeat his “One small step” line 50 times",
"In the end this movie ALSO resorts to the age old sci-fi trope of a god like being, with unexplainable powers. Basically every sci-fi universe has that. Using that as part of my score, only Martian and gattaca remain as great sci-fi movies that are totally realistic.",
"Well remembered. But imagine all the hundreds of times I had to dock manually - The fingers remembered, even when I used the docking computer. And apart from that, more often than not, it was still faster and safer to do it manually. I often used the docking computer just to get me *to* the station, not *into* it.",
"Shelly Duvall has entered the chat.",
"It may be satisfying to realize that this clip reminded you of the game, but the game producer was paying homage to the clip.",
"It's even more impressive if you look at films immediately surrounding that one. Like, say, best picture winners. The difference is night and day.",
"Wow, that sounds very interesting. I've never felt like reading the book(despite being a scifi fan) as I felt like the movie was enough. But if they complement one another then it's a different ball game.",
"Wow I never realized this came out before the moon landing. That honestly shocks me.",
"It was supposed to be \"one small step for a man\" not \"one small step for man\"",
"I watch Godfather at 1.25x speed. Helps a lot.",
"My favorite movie.",
"Read Starship Troopers after watching the movie. Vastly different experiences.",
"> he would have just actually gone to the moon to film it lol\n\nI can actually see Nolan doing this in the not too distant future given the chance.",
"The blue Danube was already used in the original Elite from 1984. When I first started an autodock in Dangerous, I had the biggest trip down memory lane.",
"Yeah, I was expecting a Type 10 stuck on the station slot",
"Ah, but the pen!! Watch as it changes velocity with zero input or movement from the ship (we see it’s perfectly still just prior). And look at the movement! So… circular! Almost one would suggest, impossible movement by that magical pen! \n\nIt was placed on a plexiglass circle and rotated lol. If you speed up you can see the exact radius of its arc.",
"Also, remember this was released **a year before the moon landing.** So this is why people though the US got Kubrick to fake it, because he had done so **already**.",
"Very realistic movie for the time. But this scene with the stewardess walking still doesn't look right. Walking in velcro grip shoes would look slow, always having one foot firmly secured before lifting the other, but her feet move quickly as if she is catching her weight. She walks as if she is trying to maintain her center of balance but that wouldn't exist in 0g. She does stabilize herself on the overhead ceiling but does it in a way like she is hanging or leaning on it. She should have been told to walk as if you're underwater, rather than walk like a drunk person with lead shoes on.",
"I love this movie, and I'm blown away with the detail for its time. I'm sure maybe watching this in the 60s had a hard time not leaving their mouth open while watching. But watching this clip I completely missed an odd behavior. The close up on the shoes, they didn't actually have the actress wear velcor slippers. I felt like I should have seen the velco in the shot, seen some fibers clean from the slipper to the carpet. If they would have had her actually wear shoes like that, it would have showed better movement of her needing to roll her foot off the ground rather than just lift straight up. And the biggest flaw, they had her STUMBLE in that closeup. What? Why would she have lost her balance in 0g? I was bummed when I noticed that. I guess you could tear apart any realistic movie. But I just remembered there being a lot of detail in this movie and already caught some mistakes.",
">but the game producer was paying homage to the clip.\n\nYes, I know that, and I'm sure that everyone who plays the game knows that. Your point is?",
"Fell asleep the first Five viewings. Finally made it through at 16. Now my favorite of all time. I work in film now. Begin production on a new project this Friday. This film played a very large role in my life. I have a family now including two children. This is how I earn the ability to support them. Gratitude",
"Well, given that the movie is between 2 and 3 times the average age of gamers, it’s not obvious at all the homage to this movie would be noted by most gamers. I think that’s part of the point.",
"It is a well-known fact in the game community because it gets mentioned on the forums quite regularly.",
"That’s interesting. What fraction of gamers do you think participate in gamer forums? I fully get that those gamers that DO also spend time on forums might know this well. Some of them even have seen the movie, I bet.",
"Elite Dangerous has a huge community. There's an official forum, but that's too moany and negative for me, so I'm on r/EliteDangerous and the XBox subreddit too. I've also been in 3 squadrons over the last 3 years, all of which have Discord servers.\n\nI'm not currently in a squadron atm, but I'm in contact with mates from my old squadrons via the XBox app and a small Discord server we set up just for ex-squadron members. \n\nAs you can see, there is a huge amount of communication between members of the Elite Dangerous community, so things like the docking sequence are common knowledge in the community."
] | 150 |
videos
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This movie was released in 1968
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkx0MxK-Yl4
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/r/videos/comments/qq7xt1/radio_conversation_between_us_and_spain_xd/
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[
"Lmfaoooo",
"I first heard this story in the 70s. The countries change but it's always usually the same punch line.",
"That's just a made up story, retold a lot of different ways.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighthouse_and_naval_vessel_urban_legend#cite_note-McConnell_speech-4",
"ok, ok, got that. I'm not American/Western European, so how could I know it's a made up story. Never heared about that before. Like you never heared story about college students on LSD/Shrooms/Ecstasy, in the city of Łódź. Legend says, they send one guy on a \"space mission\" in cardboard box. And he lifted off from 10th floor. But ok, thanks for heads up, im gonna be more careful in the future."
] | 4 |
videos
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Radio conversation between US and Spain... xD
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https://youtu.be/iljhDaowoLc??
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/r/videos/comments/qq7z1a/lets_all_not_forget_the_time_fox_news_deemed_mr/
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[
"yikes... is there a version of this video you could link to that hasn't been taken over by porn spam in the Youtube video description, though?",
"I know you want to Both Sides this very badly, but I'm fairly sure CNN never called Mr. Rogers evil. Fox News is in it's own category of extreme misinformation and propaganda.",
"You forgot OAN and NWESMAX in that list of news that lies",
"Coming from a guy who probably gets his \"news\" from Facebook.",
"Fox News has been creating boogeymen for decades.",
"What a bleak world they must live in, when Big Bird is seen as the political enemy",
"Both sides are not the same. Only one side attempted to overthrow a free and fair election. Only one side politicized a pandemic. Only one side wants to disenfranchised minorities.\n\nThey have you convinced that the left is evil, but if you thought critically about it, which group is truly on the side of democracy and the necessity of science-based actions?",
"These \"news\" anchors are shills. They don't see anything beyond their script and their bottom line. $$$",
"Nothing new, showing kindness to the \"wrong people\" or saying that everyone deserves to be treated kindly won't go well with people who preach divide as their politics",
"Of course they wouldn't. Mr. Rogers was a perfect example of a bleeding heart for CNN to hold up and compare people to. Bashing him wouldn't fit into their style of propaganda.",
"Senility, ladies and gentlemen. It's a sad sight.",
"Isn’t that based on your internet browsing history? I clicked the link and saw zero porn spam",
"[https://youtu.be/IojqOMWTgv8?t=63](https://youtu.be/IojqOMWTgv8?t=63)\n\n\\-in order to keep a system going one must re-produce the means of production. I wonder where we humans fit in all of this?? I wonder why certain people wnat you to think and act a certain way?",
"Yo, Mr Rogers advocated loving your neighbor, and treating people with respect. What kind of fucked up world do you live in where he's a bleeding heart only good for propagandizing? If you think Mr Rogers is bad, my God, I feel so, so bad for anyone that has to deal with you. I can only imagine how fucked up your world view must be on other things.",
"Bleeding heart? \nIt's a show for toddlers.",
"Makes you wish there was a hell so you can hear these pathetic pieces of shit screaming beside you",
"It’s the description under the video, it’s a link offering free BJ’s",
"I didn't see any. Must be a you thing. Pro tip: use incognito mode to browse porn",
"lol you must really hate the snowflake named Jesus Christ",
"Don’t worry. By the time I was old enough to speak, it was drilled into me (by my Republican parents) that I wasn’t special. That I was a huge pain to everyone around me. \n\nSo when Mr. Rogers would tell me that “I’m special” I would literally think “no I’m not” and that damaging self talk never really ended.",
"It's the description box for the video info, which is filled in by the person who posted it and stays static. It is not a dynamic box that responds to individual users, it shows the same to everyone.\n\nIt is most definitely a porn link that multiple people on this thread say they are seeing, you might not actually have the info box open by default when viewing the full youtube page, especially if you are on mobile. Did you happen to notice the name of the account that has uploaded this video is literally \"Blow job\"?",
"Ah I see it now. It's just a single link. Hardly \"taken over by porn spam\"\n\nEdit: clicked the link, the site isn't even up anyway",
"Wouldn't say I hate him, but I think a lot of the preachings in his name are immoral.",
"Yea, it's perfect for kids. CNN uses it to manipulate adults.",
"And by \"Bleeding Heart\" you mean \"Decent human being\". Makes sense why he would be considered evil in the eyes of the right.",
"Oh, I don't think he's only good for that. He was a wonderful person with a wonderful message. I'm saying that CNN used his image in the same fucked up way you're describing.\n\nI never said Mr. Rogers is bad; you projected that idea onto me. You not only created an entire image based on stuff I never said, you began to create a fantasy world surrounding this imaginary person? You should put some thought into why you did that.",
"No, I mean an idealized idol to be held up in comparison to others in order to make them appear less moral. It wasn't his original purpose, it isn't a good purpose, but it's how CNN used him. That's my claim: CNN's propaganda is still bad, it just takes different forms than Fox's.",
"Dumbest take I've read in many months. How do you even put your pants on in the morning?",
"Your entire lingo is borrowed from people who can create original thoughts. Fuck off.",
"\"This whole crop of kids...\"\n\nWhat a miserable, utilitarian view of children. People like her make me grateful for child labor laws."
] | 30 |
videos
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Let's All Not Forget The Time Fox News Deemed Mr Rogers "An Evil Man" And Slandered Sesame Street As "Vile Propaganda"
|
https://youtu.be/bO9rvqp49qg
|
/r/videos/comments/qq8clk/will_it_acid/
|
[
"\"And it was ready for another weiner.\" I lost it right there.",
"( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)",
"Why does the hot acid form a whirlpool?\n\nOh theres a spinning motor at the bottom",
"yes, its a magnetic stirrer. you can see the teflon coated magnet spinning on the ground of the vessel.",
"DO NOT do this in a regular bathtub.",
"Nile Red's shorts channel has been a gift.\n\nHis chaotic energy could never be expressed properly in the original channel.",
"OK, that was actually kind of terrifying. I mean, I have a healthy respect for acid, but that was insane.",
"forbidden soda.",
"https://y.yarn.co/0f5f7ca4-7a31-4da0-b5f2-8b4a9267dc6b_text.gif",
"sounds like OP's mom",
"That was straight up the coolest shit I've seen all month.",
"Seriously, and a hot dog isn't too far off from what this stuff would do to people... right? Damn do I never want to fall into a vat of *this* shit.",
"So does this turn brown for the same reason shit is brown",
"He wanted to show us his sad little meat noodle.",
"He's got Lock Picking Lawyer vibes. Straight to the point and always interesting.",
"We watched a hotdog turn into gas. When I die, can I make a request to be bottled into a gas and mixed with liquid ass? For like... harmless pranks my loved ones carry on?",
"Theoretically if you took a dumptruck full of garbage and ran it through an acidbath after breaking it down, could you not capture the gas/pressure from the acid reaction and reclaim that somehow as reusable energy?",
"[me want bite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwXIpjQjEy8)",
"have you ever seen what we do to hotdogs normally? people turn them into poo and gas, it just takes more time",
"Yes, but it will be probably less energy than you required to produce the acid for it.",
"Me, at the start of the video: Why is it called it \"piranha solution\"?\n\nMe, after thirty seconds: Ooooh.",
"Bye hotdog 😔"
] | 22 |
videos
|
will it acid?
|
https://youtu.be/tqU3tsZ-Grk
|
/r/videos/comments/qq8cum/best_drum_solo_ever/
|
[
"Not a Jazz fan, can someone clarify if this is good jazz or bad jazz?",
"I'm not very knowledgeable in jazz either but from reading the comments on YouTube and rewatching it, it seems that even though it looks a bit goofy the drum solo matches the overall vibe of the piece.",
"Technically jazz isn’t good or bad…it’s just Jazz.",
"Depends on when this was recorded, but it looks like for its time, it’s a solid solo.",
"People like making fun of this guy because of the way he looks and his expressions. I believe this isCharles Daniel Richmond, the main drummer that played with Charles Mingus. and Mingus didn’t play with scrubs. Richmond also worked with Elton John among others. Here’s another “more musical” solo probably he played in a Mingus song. Solo starts at around 2:45 https://youtu.be/ad8jHPuhiU4",
"It is “good jazz”, the person who made this is just a tool.",
"Uh...there's definitely shitty jazz.",
"It's not my favorite kind of jazz (not a big fan of small ensembles), but stylistically, everyone is playing the right way. The Count Basie Big Band is one of my favorite jazz ensembles and I feel a lot of their music is more accessible to a broader audience. Tall Cotton, Front Burner, The Heat's On, Wind Machine, etc. are all very good tunes played by them...check some of those out on Youtube and maybe you'll end up liking it.",
"This is great music. He's playing appropriately and having lots of fun doing it.",
"Right on"
] | 10 |
videos
|
Best drum solo ever
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0avmFMXKNq0
|
/r/videos/comments/qq8jg6/some_of_meghan_markles_best_scenes/
|
[
"None. She was the only bad part of that show.",
"Her Sex Scenes were not too bad though.",
"She's flat all over. Never was a fan",
"Yes but she behaves the same as in real life."
] | 4 |
videos
|
Some of Meghan Markle's best scenes
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qq8kf8/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qq8kf8/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"Air Force - \"Easy.... Easy...Eas - nicely done.\"\n\nNavy - \"Fuck Yeah\"\n\n(I know they land in different situations, but don't try to tell me they don't enjoy it)",
"To be fair, the F18 was designed to be able to handle these types of landings.",
"Not gonna catch the 3 wire taking your sweet ass time flying down the entire runway.",
"2nd is what you would typically see in on a carrier, navy does not usually have the luxury of a milelong runway. Aircraft needs to be put down in a small section of space to catch the arresting cable",
"1. The f16 can't handle harsh landings like the f18 can because landing on a ship is a harsh. \n\n2. Navy pilots are taught to stick the landing, not float it in.\n\n3. This is a single example. It means nothing.",
"It doesn't \"mean nothing\" \n\nIt means the Navy lands on boats and the Air Force lands on runways, and the result is different design and execution.",
"Any landing you walk away from is a good landing",
"The F16 with it's spindly fragile landing gear disagrees with you.",
"They actually land hard like this so the hook can catch the wire. If they land too shallow the hook can skip off of the deck and it won't catch the wire.",
"I've read that the F-16 airbrakes are not super effective (especially compared to the giant brakes on F-15s or F/A-18s), so they keep the nose up after touchdown as long as they can to hold AoA and use the whole aircraft to brake and shorten landing roll.",
"A single example means nothing.",
"These two landings are pretty indicative of a \"normal\" landing in these two aircraft and are not in any meaningful sense outliers.\n\nBoth of these aircraft are modeled in the flight simulator DCS: World, and there are tutorials on YouTube that explain how to land the two aircraft _mostly_ \"correctly.\"\n\nThe tutorials are consistent with what you see in the video above:\n\n[F-16 landing in DCS World](https://youtu.be/9uF2Bhq2AV0?t=296)\n\n[F/A-18C landing in DCS World](https://youtu.be/4t-GGqEj1IY?t=773)\n\nNote that in the F-16 landing the descent rate nears 0 as the aircraft touches down, and the instructor flares the aircraft to touch down gently, whereas in the F/A-18C landing the descent rate is held constant all the way to touchdown, with the landing gear absorbing the impact.",
"The airframe and landing gear is also designed to handle those drops on navy aircraft. If that f-16 landed like that f-18 did, there'd be problems.",
"I don't think you'll change their mind, but I enjoyed this comment! Thanks",
"I can completely believe they would be. I only know what I've seen on tv and just going from where they're likely to operate, can totally imagine there're more differences than that and choice of landing style.",
"When you've got twice the gross weight not counting fuel pods and upfitted landing gear, this isn't such a surprise."
] | 16 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://youtu.be/L17Gjt3IlAk
|
/r/videos/comments/qq8lvm/introducing_the_next_challenger/
|
[
"BING CHILLING",
"We call it human rights because it is global.",
"Imagine thinking the independent country of Taiwan is a part of China smh",
"TAIWAN #1!!!",
"USA caused deaths of 1 million iraqis lmao",
"Really should've used the [Chinese anthem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UctriMuXYS0) than whatever the fuck that was",
"Mirror?",
"I think China took it down."
] | 8 |
videos
|
Introducing the next challenger....
|
https://youtu.be/x0UphKisxsE
|
/r/videos/comments/qq9bbq/frankieonpc_posts_his_first_video_in_4_years/
|
[
"Does he hack in this one as well? And then flag videos that call him out on his cheating? And also edits the content so he comes across as a great guy when he's actually a massive douche?",
"Not sure if this is hacking but seems incredibly scripted through the parts I was looking, I think there was a cut as well... Plays more like a movie / TV series than gameplay.",
"Wow. He said he'd be back but I thought he was lying.",
"He usually goes back to add scripted stuff/video to benefit the video's story iirc, but most of the actual gameplay/interactions are real-time.",
"He cheated in DayZ, was called out, and then he said he'll change his ways. \n\nAnd then he cheats in CSGO, was called out, and then said he'll change his ways. \n\nBesides the unfairness, he's still an asshole.",
"There’s a million streamers/YouTubers out there to watch. And there’s nothing especially unique or special about Frankie or his content.",
"All the vids that got him popular back in the dayz days were scripted bullshit claiming to be real.",
"Just gonna go ahead and downvote. this dude doesnt need to come back",
"Am I the only one who doesn't care that it's scripted and just enjoy the videos for what they are because they're very entertaining?",
"WHO?!",
"the bhop god",
"Wanna let you in on something. You ever watched a tv show and enjoyed it?",
"Solid 20-40minutes of content. And people complain. \n\nYou know what day z is like when playing it for real? Very uneventful most of the time.",
"I think his content is pretty unique. I like the scripted vids",
"Looting for hours and then you die to some sniper"
] | 17 |
videos
|
FRANKIEonPC posts his first video in 4 years
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qqa077/deleted_by_user/
|
/r/videos/comments/qqa077/deleted_by_user/
|
[
"Fake trailer",
"Good fan edit, but not official.",
"man that one had there for a min, fun fan trailer though."
] | 3 |
videos
|
[deleted by user]
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqn4vWySmF0
|
/r/videos/comments/qqa1jo/we_cleaned_the_beach/
|
[
"Did you just move left?... Pier behind the supposed tripod moved",
"Also some trash still on the left side of frame. Like they just did a sliver of the shot.",
"Perhaps, but they actually did clear the beach. So let them do the movie magic if it encourages others to help."
] | 3 |
videos
|
We Cleaned The Beach
|
https://youtu.be/HkaFRnlHdKo
|
/r/videos/comments/qqaees/the_negligent_dog_owner_is_the_worst_kind_of_dog/
|
[
"Looks like a kid too weak lost the leash and panicked. \n\nVery unfortunate all the way around.",
"Followed by a negligent parent letting a little kid run up to the pitbull...",
"lotta negligent pit owners",
"Looks to me like the dog got loose somehow and the owner was already chasing it. Still negligent, but I don't think this person was intentionally letting the dog roam.",
"Let’s welcome the “pit bulls aren’t dangerous pit bull owners are the danger” people as they mosey on down here to make their comments.",
"My heart sank seeing that, mauling can happen super fast.",
"\"#NannyDog\"",
"True. Some dogs of any breed can have brain disorders or injuries that affect their behavior, but by and large there aren’t bad dogs, there are bad dog owners.\n\nEdited for clarity",
"Perhaps I misspoke, dogs can have brain disorders or injuries that can affect behavior.",
"Dogs can literally have depression... They're emotionally complex creatures that can feel all sorts of things from love to mourning.",
"Cat person here. Why wouldn't the guy with the dog on the leash release his dog?",
"Some breeds are…..bred for terminal violence \n\nSome breeds are better at carrying out their intent when they want to kill than others.",
"Because then you can't control your dog? Is this a serious question?",
"I will counter with \"yea but border collies aren't usually bred with the physical ability to kill dogs and people.\"",
"While true, any breed can be trained and it’s the dog owners responsibility to make sure their dog is on lead and in the hands of someone who can securely control the dog. Dogs are a lot of work, certain breeds more than others to be sure, but that work ultimately lands squarely on the shoulders of the dog owner.",
"It's a difficult one, but I think the guy in the video made the right decision here.\n\nYou release the lead, you give your guy a better chance, he can run (Although not up trees like cats) or fight back more freely (and it seems like the leashed dog was holding its own quite well).\n\nBut also, it could run into traffic, This could cause injuries to the dogs, or even other bystanders (Heavy metal boxes at speed are no joke).\n\nSeems like it was only a puppy pit as the guy was able to hold it back and almost pin it away from his dog with 1 arm whilst also holding his dog back.",
"Kids should not have leashes for strong aggressive dogs",
"You're right, that's why I don't believe in mental disorders. We're mammals, we go off instincts /s",
"I really wish all owners of bigger dangerous dogs would not let their little kids walk them. If they can’t control their dog it’s a danger to others. I have an American bully/pit mix puppy and I wouldn’t trust a child to walk him (even though he is sweet to all dogs and children he’s met). Also it’s so frustrating to see the amount of people around town that walk their dogs without leashes...",
"> Both dogs were being aggressive.\n\nSo both dogs were agitated with one another and fought. That is a huge difference from one dog just randomly attacking another dog or a person out of the blue with intent to kill, which pit bulls often do.",
"Border collies are smart enough to make it look like an accident.",
"Nah its the best subreddit to hate on pitbulls not have a discussion",
"Uh, no they aren't.",
"Generally speaking it doesn't offer much in the way of positives, especially when there's a road nearby. Maybe your cat would run from the situation to hide, but dogs usually don't have that same response. The dog being attacked might try to hide behind its owner, and that's about it. That also isn't really far enough away from danger. Then the attacking dog just chases, so now you have 2 dogs on the loose.",
"Tell me you're talking out your ass without telling me. \n\nTop 5 most ignorant things I've read today, and I spent my morning on r/badwomensanatomy. Fucking Chihuahuas will attempt to fight anything that moves, ffs.",
"They are most certainly not, by far. Any breed can be mistreated or trained into being dangerous. The idea that some just have a \"killer instinct\" (or the pit bulls have more of it than other breeds) is total BS.\n\nThe sad truth is that people most likely to turn a dog into a weapon go after breeds like pit bulls. That's not the fault of the dog.\n\nWhen I was a kid it was Dobermans. Then German Shepherds (maybe in the other order -- it's been a while). Unfortunately for pits, they're the current go-to breed for people who shouldn't be allowed to have a dog.\n\nIf pit bulls were somehow banned today, tomorrow it'd just be another breed people thought were killers.",
"At the beginning, you can see the owner walking it on a leash!!! The dog just pulled and the owner let go. I’m sure they didn’t let go on purpose but it was on a leash. They were not chasing. Watch it frame by frame and you can clearly see the dog “pulling” when it saw the other dog coming into view. \n\nAlso, it looks like a child or small woman is walking the pit bull. If it’s a child, we clearly need some better supervision in the future. If it’s a small woman, attach the dog to her body or something. Better training is needed, period.",
"Ok but pitbulls are objectively dangerous. Chihuahuas don't have jaw strength and bite force stronger than wolves.",
"Ever dog owner is negligent because it’s gross to “own” living creatures.",
"People who say that ignore that Pitbulls are pure muscle and have bite force and jaw strength stronger than Wolves.\n\nPitbull attacks hospitalize people more than any dog.",
"You're joking right? The whole subreddit is just posts about dog attacks and \"pit-nutters\". It's like going to your local catholic church to discuss abortion",
"Pitbulls are responsible for well over half the fatal dog attacks in the country, far beyond their proportion of the dog population. Not every pitbull is a killer but you're more likely to be killed by a pitbull than any other dog. They're also the most likely breed to cause severe injury.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States",
"This is why it would be a bad idea to combine the behavior of a chihuahua with let’s say a bulldog.",
"Edgelord over here",
"I own and also \"eat\" animals. Welcome to earth buddy.",
"Waiting for the chooch to come into this thread and talk about chihuahuas being more dangerous and aggressive than pitbulls.",
"Sources?",
"Normal dogs are not used to the type of aggression pitbulls show. They attack without any warning. If you watch some of the videos of attacks. the dog being attacked will sometimes look at the owner like “what the fuck is going on!?” Takes a while before they even understand they are fighting another dog.",
"People do kill other people all the time, maybe we should ban people? People that wanna ban a certain dog just because some owners can't properly handle it is just flawed logic in all ways. If I were to give you some heavy machinery you dont know how to use, you can kill people aswell... Now we should ban that machinery because its dangerous for people? It's not tho and it's only dangerous when someone who doesnt know how to handle it uses it.",
"Found the guy who doesn't read statistics",
"Was that the kid’s mom sauntering over while her child and dog were potentially almost killed? She’s lucky there isn’t a gash on the kid’s face a a couple of holes in the dog.",
"And sometimes that brain disorder is bred right in. Like with pitbulls.",
"I had an experience like this happen before the last time I moved. The pit bull got out from the cracked garage door that was a little too high as I was walking my two corgis. Went right in and bit down on one's neck while I was punching it with all that I could to get him off. He got off, went to the other and did the same. Went on for a minute while I'm beating the shit out of it until the neighbor of our neighbor pulls the dogs hind legs and we recover.\n\nThank god Corgi's have such thick fur on their necks, else I would have lost them.\n\nFuck pit bulls.",
"Pretty much every study into this has shown Pit Bulls are not uniquely aggressive. Pit Bulls are just more likely to be put into abusive households or households that train them to be aggressive. When you control for history of abuse and aggressive training Pitbulls are no more or less aggressive than any other medium breed. \n\n\nYou can say Pit bulls are bred for aggression. But they are still dogs. And dogs have been bred for many more years to not be aggressive than the years pit bulls have been bred. \n\n\nBeing the most aggressive dog breed (which pit bulls are not) is a bit like being the least graceful cat breed.",
"I don’t trust pit bulls. A couple years ago I was on my front lawn when one got off leash a couple streets away and tried to attack me on my front lawn for no reason. Only to have my two GSDs come racing around the house and the moment they saw that thing attack me they circled it like wolves. From Derp mode to “Fuck you that’s my human” mode in half a second. The moment one got it’s attention the other would go for the back legs driving it off the property. \n\nI have never gone from holy shit this things going to try to kill me to “Holy shit I’m fine” so quick. The difference between the breeds is mine didn’t bite that dog and as soon as it left the yard they came directly to me instead of chasing it. You need to know your dog and properly train them to obey commands. I don’t use invisible fence anymore but even when I did you need to ensure your dogs obey you and not just the tone/shock.",
"Big strong dogs aren't for everyone. A dog owner can own tiny dogs their whole life and not have a single incident because when their little dog gets snappy or aggressive they just laugh it off \"oh, he just thinks he's an 80 lb dog, hahaha\". Give a large breed dog to these same people, and they raise them the same way, they just turn into shitty sometimes dangerous dogs.",
"fuck pit bull owners",
">\tYou have no fact to claim the opposite.\n\nThat’s not how this works. You don’t make a claim and then if it’s not disproven you’re automatically right. \n\nYou make the claim. You back it up.",
"um...the burden of proof is on you for making the claim.",
"fuck both.",
"You do have to take into account that they're the most popular breed for shitbags to own too.",
"your statement is meaningless, please engage brain before opening mouth to not look like a fool",
"You know your comment history is public… right?",
"That little girl running in at the end was gonna fuckin ***REGULATE***",
"at least your name checks out",
">No but pits are almost the only dogs...\n\n\\^The FIRST claim. Yours.",
"Man, but also: \n\n- Release your dog! It can't run or truly defend itself while leashed. \n- Do NOT try to grab an aggressive dog \n- Do NOT lower your face/neck towards an aggressive dog",
"OR the breeders who breed for aggression and strength.\n\nOR the people who buy such aggressive breeds\n\nOR the people who defend owning such aggressive animals",
"How would one even control for those factors in a scientific way? Smells like bullshit",
"Did the borader collie then eat a baby?",
"Okay, then, maybe a licensing system where a person can apply to have a dangerous thing such as a metal structure that they move with ease or a dog bred to have a large bite force. When it becomes obvious that the person cannot handle the responsibility, they get their license revoked.",
"Also the pit bull is the worst kind of breed. Downvote me to oblivion. I give two fucks about it.",
"never seen a chihuahua kill a person, have you?\n\ncome on man, get a grip.",
"get lost with your pathetic attempt at an argument\n\n\"Rocket launchers don't kill people. people do. should we ban rocket launchers?\"\n\nwhat a tool you are",
"https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/mkihbt/he_was_abused/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf",
"Yes, it's a serious question, and you don't need to be rude to the person asking, especially given it's due to your own ignorance. \n\n- Releasing your dog allows it to run, or fight, as needed \n- Releasing your dog allows YOU to run or fight, if needed \n- Releasing your dog can quell 'leash aggression' in some cases",
">\tNo but pits are almost the only dogs who behave like this with a killer instinct to attack targets at very long range that poses no threat to it.\n\nDid you forget saying that waaaaay back at the beginning?",
"That’s not the Get Out Of Jail Free card you think it is..",
"ok, well you're almost very bad at arguments, and almost no one should take you seriously.",
"Ahh, the verbose form of \"inb4\".",
"whatever happened to 'accidents'? that coulda been the first sign of aggression of that sort. shit happens sometimes, it coulda been worse.",
"Statiscally speaking pitbulls have an unusually large number of \"accidents\"",
"I’ve heard they’re almost banned from being anywhere near schools because of their.. tendencies. \n\n\nALMOST.",
"So you state you’re a cat person and imply that you are ignorant to dog/leash uses and then try and give garbage facts for the usefulness of a leash? Ok dude. You always keep control of your dog, it's the whole point of the leash. Letting your dog off leash loses control of your dog and to control what's happening in the situation. Your dog is either going to stand ground and fight or run. If they run you lose the ability to defend your dog and control his behavior. If he defends you now have the ability to position yourself to defend your dog and position your dog to take less damage. If a dog is attacking you that may be a different story but that's not what is going on here. I have had a lot of dogs. Very very large dogs. I'm not ignorant to controlling dogs in bad situations.",
"By knowing your subjects history of course. That's why they call it a study.",
"Kid and dog were running. Dog zigs and the kid zags, while tripping over the leash. I wouldn't say negligent - just unfortunate occurrences.",
"Looks like it was an accident. dog took off unexpectedly while the owner was in a poor position (leash wrapped around the tree) and the leash came loose. I don’t see a whole lot of\nNegligence here. Very unfortunate and my heart goes out to the pup that was hurt but I don’t really see much blame to throw around. This could happen to anyone",
"\\> There is countless examples of pitbulls doing this that was never mistreated. \n\n\nDespite your horrendous grammar, this was *your* claim. For which I was asking you to provide sources. The fact that you state there are COUNTLESS examples should mean finding some to backup your point should be exceptionally easy.",
"If you even drop the slightest amount of factual data in r/pitbulls you can expect to get permanently banned. That whole sub is a bunch of whacked out women who refuse to believe pitbulls are violent.",
"Yeah man, kill that 12 year old!",
"There are no dangerous dogs just bad owners who don’t socialize and train properly!",
"I knew it was gonna be a pit before I even looked at the thumbnail. It's the same story, every time. Breed Specific Legislation is a necessity.",
"A different person replied to you. And, I am also a different person than the first two.",
"Shitty people own all kinds of dogs. The large discrepancy in attacks between pits and other dogs is super unlikely to be explained by \"shitty owners.\" It's orders of magnitudes more.",
"Care to explain what you mean?",
"This is purely speculation, but that was a family out for a walk with their pitbull. The owner immediately chased the dog to stop it. It's just an eye test but that didn't look like a shitbag owner. Sometimes it's just the dog.",
"Also, show me the data to back that one up? At least I can prove my point with hard facts not anecdotal evidence.",
">There are no dangerous dogs\n\nyes there are.",
"Worked at an animal shelter for a couple years. All of the dog bites we received were from little shit dogs. 2 employees hospitalized from bites. 5 dogs forced to be put down. \n\nNever had a big dog bite.\n\nObviously, this is situational/anecdotal. But in my experience, I'll trust a pit, over any tiny ass pos.",
"As someone who’s mother trains Pit Bulls and Akitas I can tell you it is not an issue with the breed. Most dogs can be trained and, most importantly, controlled.",
"tldr or no read sorry",
"Of course it can be verified!\n\nThere are literally dogs with paper trails of abuse. Criminal records and such. \n\nWhy are you being so hostile. It's weird",
"You catch more bees with honey than vinegar.",
"Pitbulls are for trashy people.",
"Prepare for the downvotes because people don't like facts about pits",
"I'm not a dog owner but if the attacked dog were to be released, that pit would continue to chase it and fuck it up. I think I would have acted pretty similarly to that owner, trying to do whatever I could do to make that pit think this might not be the best idea. I'm sure I'd be scared shitless and I'm not saying I wouldn't get hurt but I wouldn't think to release my dog. Also, while I don't own a dog I've been and walked several and the mechanism to release is only easy to operate when the dog isn't panicking and moving all over the place.",
"Shut the fuck up and tell me what dog bites the most people per year. Basics like you need to stay on read only, if you had a second brain you would be twice as stupid.",
"I'm so sorry he's never done this before",
"People are fucking retards.",
"buddy watched 2 pitbulls spill out of a house by accident through the front door and within seconds they were splattering a shih-tzu all over the street and signs and cars\n\nbut they're actually really sweet and good with kids",
"This has happened to me before. Someone sitting on their porch with their dogs and they decided to sprint across the street at me and my dog on his leash. I picked my dog up and punted the other dog. Not hard enough to do any serious damage but enough to let it know to F off. It did not and the owner had to come and pull her dog back as it kept trying to get to my much smaller dog. They apologized a lot and INSISTED their dog is never like this.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nedit: a word",
"Move on with that shit take",
"If you have a dog that strong you don’t let a little kid have the leash. Common sense",
"Not to mention that releasing a dog that's moving around in a panic trying not to die would be pretty dang hard and that if your dog is never off-leash it might not have an idea what to do and might just try to run and end up getting hit by a car or something.",
"The ven diagram of shit dog owners and pit bulls is almost a perfect circle.",
"*glances around*\n\nChecks out.",
"Or stop keeping living things as slaves.",
"So if i arrest someone for dog fighting and collect their court surrendered dog and see their dog bite wounds i can't verify it was abused because i wasn't there 24/7\n\nWhat?",
"There are also no dangerous humans. Only bad parents who don't train and socialize their children. It's a neverending train of unsocialized humans.\n\nHitler was not properly socialized!",
"I hate when I see a dog attack like this. I hate it even more when I notice it's a pitbull because then most of the comments are calling for the breeds head on a stick. So many people 50% of all stray dogs have some pitbull in them because they are the most irresponsibly bred dog in America and the most likely to be able to survive on the streets. When people damn this breed and try to convince others they should all be put down they're really damning most of the mutts sitting in shelters, begging for a forever home.",
"Looks like the kid was running with the dog and the dog bolted and possibly flipped the kid right over. I really don't know enough about dogs to say if the likelihood of this happening would have been lessened if the dog wasn't a Pitbull or of the dog was better trained, but looks like a kid was just playing with their dog and who for all I know has never been aggressive bolted at the right time to trip the kid. It really sucks but it is pretty hard to pin blame to harshly",
"My mom bought a pitbull around 2017, not because she wanted a guard dog or anything, but because he was still a puppy and was extremely sick, plus the previous owner wasn't fortunate enough to have enough cash to pay for it's treatment.\n\n Guy owned my mum a favour, she takes the pitbull home, we treat it, we care for it, it's called Lucky because it was luck that made my mom and that pitbull meet eachother.\n\n Fast forward a year, Lucky is still growing, it isn't hostile to cats and was still small enough to be carried in someone's arms, very docile.\n\n Fast forward another year, Lucky kills one of our cats. Fast forward another year, Lucky kills another cat of ours named Preto. My mom doesn't want to give up the dog yet.\n\n Fast forward another year, Lucky attacks my dad, bites off a piece of my mum's chin and bites my brother's arm.\n\n Never did we treat that dog poorly, never did we slap 'em for no reason. Never again.",
"Around 1st grade, I had a friend that lived down the street from me. He had a dog that was tied up year round outside no matter the weather. Dog hated everyone with good reason.\n\n*I still befriended the dog* as a kid. Dog actually would roll over for belly rubs for me. Friend I guess didn't like that and hit the dog with a stick one day while I was petting it.\n\nProceeded to be mauled by this giant dog. Ripped up my left side and pulled me back when I tried crawling away. Eventually I get free and run back home.\n\nTo this day, I do not blame that dog. If anything that whole even taught me more about shit owners and people (the family hid the dog from Animal Control and fought us in court). Also a random leather belt saved my spine that day.",
"With the right dog and training a lot is possible, for sure.\n\nBut there are very few dogs that have the natural propensity for killing (both mechanically and mentally) that pitbulls do.",
"Missed that part, thank you.",
"Oh get out of here with bullshit stereotypes, shittty dog owners have all sorts of breeds",
"I raise pitbulls that have been labeled dangerous. Currently I have two. One #90 and another is smaller, around #45. I have put over a year into the one of them and I would never let her off her lease. I also would never let a child walk a dog that has the strength to drag said kid for a mile. Pitbulls should not be owned by just anyone. They are not a beginner dog breed. They can be one of the most rewarding breeds out there but they require strict routine and constant correcting. What I have learned is that pit owners need to think about every possible fuck up that could happen and avoid them. Never put your pit in a position to get in trouble. Easier said than done but it's not impossible. That means we never go to the dog park. We never walk without a leash. I never leave my dogs with someone who has not broken up a dog fight before. The only exception would be someone who has broken up a pig fight, very similar.",
"Twice I had to receive stitches from dog bites. Once was a German Shepard. Once was a black lab. A cute little pitbull attached my husky and she had to get stitched up. I can punt an ankle biter. I’ll fight them little assholes any day.",
"Pitbulls are the most irresponsibly bred dogs in America. That's why over 50% of all stray and dogs sitting in shelters have are labeled as pit mixes. Let's not go around damning over half of all shelter dogs to a lonely life in a cage followed by death by needle because one family couldn't keep their dog on a leash.",
"Dogs bred for fighting have an instinct to fight/kill who would have guessed?",
"Worked as a vet tech for a few years. Only bite I've ever gotten was from a Chihuahua. Two others I've witnessed on other techs and a vet were from a poodle and a collie mut. Big dogs were usually fine but we did have an absolute monster of a Rottie with a shit owner, that was a problem. There are absolutely breeds which are super aggressive on a fucking genetics levels. Caucasian and Mid Asian shepherds for example. Pits? Breeding and shit owners there.",
"dude shut the fuck up",
"It's a shitty situation, but looks like the parent is trying to hold back another dog and for all we know they are telling the kid to stay back. Negligent feels harsh.",
"My dog was attacked by any number of other dogs, but not one of the attackers was a pit bull.",
"Agreed, they are basically one big muscle, which is why I don’t think they should be “family” dogs and why, even if well trained, as a responsible dog owner the dog should not be off lead in public, because even if you’re 99% sure nothing bad will happen, there’s always a chance, and if something happens it will undoubtedly be worse with a pit bull involved.",
"Hahaha, take my upvote!",
"I love how we blame parents for shitty kids, but if it's a dog?? \n\n\"OH HELL NO THAT DOG SHOULD KNOW BETTER.\"",
"And all the dogs who don’t bite people, how do we know their histories? How do we know pits are abused at a higher rate, a rate proportional to their higher rate of attacks?\n\nHalf of the hypothesis has no data to support it.\n\nI’d like to see this “study”",
"Not just bigger dangerous dogs. It’s an issue with children walking any dog. No I’m not saying kids shouldn’t be allowed to walk a dog, I’m saying that if they do, they need to be taught some basic rules/common sense. My big dog has some leash aggression (we’re working on it) and if we can’t cross the street, we at very minimum will take a wide birth from other dogs coming towards us. When I see a little kid coming with a dog (any dog) I pretty much need to just turn around completely and go back the way I came. The amount of times I’ve crossed the street or gone wide and the kid just lets their dog bark at us at the end of their leash, or just try to bring their dog over to say hello, etc… I understand it’s my dog that has the issue, but some common sense and recognizing that another dog is having a hard time or that the owner is actively trying to avoid you would go a long way. And the without leashes thing drives me nuts too. “Don’t worry, he’s friendly!” Yea….mines not and we’re about to have a big problem.",
"Yeah people are super harsh in this thread. I think the question of if people should own pitbulls is a fair question but outside of that we really do not have enough information to call people negligent.",
"Pit bulls and the owners are both the problem",
"Mostly pits tho",
"Just as dangerous are the ones that think they're doing a good job of training their pet but are doing nothing. Yelling at an animal is not training them.",
"That's funny, my sister got mauled by a GSD when she was 5. It almost disemboweled her. Her side was so completely open you could see her rib bones and her ear had to be sewn back on. It attacked her for literally no reason. Yet every time I see a cop walking his GSD I don't think, \"screw that monster because of my one anecdote, I hope it dies. No one should own those monsters!\" I just think that one dog was highly aggressive and owned by a negligent owner.",
"I had my pup (6mo old) attacked by a pit. We were sitting in the grassy area outside my townhouse, and apparently the neighbour from the row behind us had a front door that didn't always close properly. Damned thing ran up out of nowhere, and just latched on to my dog's side. Luckily, she was young enough to still have a bit of loose puppy skin, so the pit didn't get muscle. \n\nWith two grown men on top of the pit, one repeatedly punching the dog in the ribs and side, the dog still wouldn't let go. I ran inside to grab a baton and by that time my partner had pulled our dog away while the other two guys restrained the pit.\n\nI'm still on the fence about pits aggression being \"all in the owner\", however it's not rocket surgery to know that retrievers retrieve, pointers point, herding dogs have a herding instinct...and dogs that were specifically chosen for their muscle mass, bite strength and aggression will display those characteristics by instinct.",
"You’re 100% incorrect son and that’s a fact",
"It’s always a pit",
"A pitbull does not have a stronger bite than a wolf.",
"anecdotal but one just ran up on me when i was walking my black lab/bluetick mix, bonnie put that thing on defense so fuckin quick. My dog is more dangerous, but you might not think it from her floppy ears. Not all pitbulls are 'dangerous' in comparison to other breeds. Especially some breeds. There's just so many of them, like 80% of the pound here is pits. Of course there's more bites.",
"well said all around",
"More than half of all street dogs and shelter dogs are labeled as pitbull mixes. It wouldn't surprise me that street mutts make up a significant portion of bite incidents.",
"How do mean? I believe I’ve been respectful during this interaction. I just happen to have an apparently unpopular opinion. I will say, I believe the safety of humans should supersede the freedom of our pets and that if a particular dog (of any breed) shows a propensity for violence then it must be put down. On that note, I’ve made the excruciatingly tough decision of putting down more small dogs (2) for biting than pit bulls or similar breeds (none).",
"Your dogs should be fenced or on leashes. You are just as negligent.",
"> “pit bulls aren’t dangerous pit bull owners are the danger”\n\nMeanwhile Cersa Millan's pitbull be [like:](https://businessinsider.mx/cesar-millan-covering-up-dogs-attack-on-queen-latifahs-dog-2021-9/?r=US&IR=T)",
"You shouldn’t trust pit bulls. Most of them are time bombs and no amount of training will fully eliminate that.",
"I think it is a child and they are running with the dog for fun and it is on the leash. When it bolts for the dog the kid flips right over loses the leash and lands on the sidewalk.",
"Thats correct but what breed has the highest percentage?",
"Source? Or is that just your personal opinion?",
"Lots of armchair dog experts in here claiming to somehow know that pit bulls are inherently more dangerous than other breeds. I’ve yet to meet a trainer who would agree with them.",
"Looks like she was trying to keep another dog from getting involved as well.",
"So it can be verified and well documented.\n\nSimilarly there are dogs raised from pup to dog under the same owner who would know the entire history of the dog and can confirm no abuse has happened and the dog has been properly socialized and trained.\n\nSo that can be verified as well.\n\nSo what exactly was so stupid about what i wrote?",
"my thing is... yeah pit bulls can be aggressive just like a lot of breeds. rots, doberman, dalmations, sherpards, like youve seen movies right? but theres soooooo many pit bulls. too many pit bulls. of course they have the most bites, theyre not lap dogs. its over population in my opinion thats the real problem. I dont own a pit, i have no 'dog in the fight', but every pit ive met with a good owner is hella chill. the most loving, playful dogs. dumb as fuck, but downright adorable.",
"well thanks, now I'm enraged.",
"Ok? So? Who asked? Relevance?",
"after our longer conversation it's clear I am an idiot, ignore.",
"highest percentage of what? Pits due to their physical attributes are a preferred dog by shitty agreesive owners, I don't contest that. \n\nHowever, there are a ton of families just like mine who've had pitts their entire life with zero incidents, based on pet ownership numbers of the breed compared with police reports, reasonable owners of pits are indeed the majority.",
"Lol you would start off controversial but a little better saying BUYING them is immoral, but just having them? As in even adoptions? lol",
"If a dog has been raised pup to dog under the same owner, that owner can verify how it was raised.",
"That dog would be dead if that was me…",
"Sir, pitbulls have never been the most popular dog breeds. [here is the most popular dog breeds for the past 8 years](https://www.akc.org/most-popular-breeds/) and keep in mind the pitbull is one dog breed out of hundreds, and they make up anywhere from 60-80 % of dog attacks",
"You are not understanding my point at all. \n\nFor the population of dogs that have not attacked a person, how do we get that dogs history? \n\nIf the dog was abused do you really think an owner will volunteer that information accurately?",
"Aggressive dogs are untrained dogs and should not be handled by children. It's not a breed issue, it's an owner issue. Pretty easy to see where the fault lies here.",
"The pit ran across the street to attack the other dog. That's shit owner regardless of what you think they look like.",
"A lot of dogs will kill cats…",
"> never did we slap 'em for no reason. \n\nHold up, are you saying that you hit your dog for a reason then? Like you hit them when there was a reason to? You should have said \"Never did we slap 'em\" period. there is never a reason to beat your dog. Maybe that's why it turned violent? Maybe that's just a miscommunication but the \"for no reason\" part disturbs me.",
"So what? We’re talking about the statistics. I’m not saying that fatalities aren’t high, but they are definitely skewed.",
"CCW",
"Which dog breed has the highest percentage of shitty owners? Im glad that your family had a great time with your pittbull but we should avoid anecdotal evidence and look at reports of injuries and fatalities from specific dog breeds.",
"i sure hope your dog/cat/loved one isn't part of the first \"accident\" a pitbull has",
"The owner of the lab should have immediately dropped the leash so the dog could defend itself. He was pulling the dogs head away from the attack leaving its flanks open.",
"tiny ass dog can be punted. pit bull can kill you. i'll trust the former but wouldn't put my face in front of either.",
"iTs AlL iN hOw yOu rAiSe tHeM",
"Or shit breed.",
"Do you really think someone hiding the fact that they are abusing their dog would take part in a study on the behavior of abused dogs?",
"My wife and small dog got jumped by two loose pits in a location just like this. Thankfully as my wife lifted my dog up and before it became a canine pinata, she tossed him into the back of a neighbor's pickup truck. When one of the pits tried to jump into the back of the truck, she nailed one of them with her stun gun. Later both dogs charged the animal control officer after he unloaded a can of bear spray at them. Dogs were captured and owners issued a $200 fine for each dog. My vet bills were $250.\n\nStun guns work but are more apt to scare any threatening dogs than hurt them. This one got a direct hit to the head and ran like hell.\n\nEdit: Wasn't worth it to take them to court. Filing fees would be more than the bill. Thought about filing a claim against their home insurance but that would have been nasty. Homeowners were definitely not good people. Pits were named \"Capone\" and \"Felony\". I believe they sold puppies at garage sales every couple years. Dirtbags of the neighborhood.",
"Well that's why only sith deal in absolutes.",
"This is the exact point I’m making to you\n\nYour assertion is that pitbulls only have worse outcomes because they are abused more. \n\nI presume we know about Pitbull abuse because it comes up in court and legal proceedings. \n\nIm asking how you KNOW that other breeds are abused less. You don’t know that. Because nobody is going to volunteer that information if they treat their dog badly, and if it’s not coming up in court, how would we possibly know?",
"and",
"By owning dogs, as in continuously rescuing does appear as a solely noble act at first.\n\nProblem is the pet food idustry alone is around a $100b market. There are incentives to keep producing and breeding dogs even if they're not sold directly by breeders to the individuals hoping to either own or rescue an animal. By rescuing animals, a seemingly noble thing, you're actually telling that market to produce more dogs that need to be rescued. They profit from your altruistic motivations.\n\nAll things to do with pet ownership are immoral. Capitalism loves slavery.",
"\"gee i hope no one finds out I'm secretly abusing my dog. Better sign up to have my dog studied by scientists\"\n\nDo you hear yourself?",
"The number of bites is not at all what is relevant here.\n\nIt's the damage caused by the bites.\n\nAlso, there's no need for you to be so condescending and vile to make your point. It's not necessary. Make your points on the benefits of your argument. Calling someone names and saying things like \"if you had a second brain you would be twice as stupid\" only detract from the point that you are trying to make.",
">GSD\n\nFor those who don't know, like I didn't. GSD is German Shepherd Dog",
"Yes, people who abuse their dog are likely to avoid being scrutinized, meaning the study is bullshit. You’re not smart :(",
"Almost like trainers make a living out of convincing people that training is the ultimate solution.",
"I think on some level both people are right, I think that the thing that divides the argument though is there is alot of good owners who do do everything in their power but what some would consider bad is also natural, like if a husky kills a small pet its litterally its instincts kicking in. \n\nAt some point no level of training matters if a strong enough urg/motivator sends the dog down a bad path its litterally nature. \n\nPeople have a hard time with that though 😕",
"Pits should be neutered out of existence.",
"Breed should be eradicated.",
"I mean. If a dog is biting someone's chin then yeah it's gonna get a smack",
"Huh. Well..TIL, thanks.",
"but can you really prove your point? because while I do concede what you say is right, we do not know if the reported attacks are mostly by pitbulls due to the fact that other dog breeds are less prevalent with shitty owners and due to the fact that other dog breeds would do less damage than a pitbull.\n\nmaybe other dogs, when raised by shitty owners, are as or more badly behaved. it's just that pitbulls have the strength to back that bad behaviour with more damage.\n\nso while I think you're probably right, I don't think you can really prove it's the breed's fault.",
">Big strong dogs aren't for everyone\n\nAbsolutely. The stronger your dog, the more discipline you as an owner need in training, caring for, and exercising it.",
"Since we're all throwing anecdotes about dogs in, my wife's first dog was mauled to death by a loose GSD in the neighborhood.",
"> Capitalism loves slavery.\n\nah yes people didnt' own dogs in the soviet union",
"> A pitbull has a biting power of 253 PSI, which isn’t all that impressive (a German shepherd has a biting power of 238 PSI and a Kangal has a biting force of 743 PSI).\n\n\n...\n\n\n> A wolf has a normal biting power of 400 pounds per square inch (PSI), and in the case of a fight or to kill its prey, this can increase to 1,500 PSI.\n\nhttps://www.animalfoodplanet.com/pitbull-vs-wolf/",
"Pitbull?",
"I would agree if you said \"dangerous breeds\" but dogs are individuals and there are fucked up individuals out there who are just fucking dangerous. I say this as a dog walker with years of experience and a lifelong love of dogs. There are absolutely dangerously inclined dogs.",
"I mean, letting your dog fight a pit bull is just letting it be killed.\n\nIt's a breed that was bred over generations to kill other dogs, and if you let it, it will do so. It's the reason they're so aggressive to other dogs. It's genetic.",
"> as much as I can. \n\nI don’t actually think you read about pit bull attacks. I don’t even think you actually care about the issue.",
"We have plenty of documentation on which dogs are more likely to be court surrendered or more likely to be abandoned to shelters.\n\nPit bulls are usually on top of those lists.",
"If I drive down the road with my eyes closed and get into a wreck it’s not an accident, even if I didn’t mean for it to happen. It’s a predictable outcome of unsafe behavior",
"Yes ok. What’s your point.",
"There are several dogs breeds that are equally dangerous in bad hands, you just don’t see those breeds on the news every month because the stigma is what attracts the scumbags.\n\nThat’s like saying “there is both an issue with luxury vehicle owners and turn signals” because luxury vehicle owners don’t use their turn signals.",
"That’s pretty fucking small minded if you to say. Plenty of terrible dog owners don’t have a pit.",
"If you're that worried about your dog's behavior they should never be out of your control.",
"Pitbulls don't even crack the top ten most owned/popular dog breeds on most compiled statistics you can find. Pitbulls are the number one breed in violent dog attacks. In most statistics you can find on this they account for more than the next like 5+ breeds combined. I will grant one things. The number is still so low you have a much higher chance of being injured or dying from thousands of other things before you are in a violent pitbull encounter.",
"Exactly so they would not willingly participate in the study. It stands to reason owners who verify no abuse has occurred are telling the truth because if they were hiding abuse they wouldn't participate in a study that would draw attention to their dog.",
"The title should read \"Pitbull just pitbulling\". \n\n\nIt is the owners fault only in that they purchased a lethal living thing, and try to pretend like it is a normal pet.",
"They said pit bull stats aren't accurate and they aren't so bad.",
"If it was one family that couldn't keep a dog on the leash we'd be saying, \"Hey, never saw that before.\"",
"Bruh, I was a dog walker for years. I have stepped in the middle of large dog fights and pried open pit's mouths with my hands. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nUnder no fucking circumstances would I get involved in a pig fight, they're so much bigger, smarter, and meaner.",
"My point is it's well documented that pit bulls are more likely to be involved in abuse cases than other breeds",
"A neighbor had a dog like that, in chains 24/7. Somehow one day it got released, went out and attacked the first person it saw, a woman with a 4 year old child.\n\nI heard the screams and ran outside, she was pinned by the dog against a car with the child on her arms. I jumped on top of the car I pulled them on top with me, while another neighbor came out and used his car to make the dog retreat..\n\nThe child was ok, fortunately, but the mother had a big chunk of flesh hanging from her leg.. they were very lucky she didn't fell. Everything happen in less than a minute.\n\nDogs are cute and all, but they can be relentless beast too. You were very lucky.",
"lol you can stfu too. Plenty of dogs have vicous bites. The hate for pitbulls is misguided just like your attempt to correct my behavior. People like you that are so basic you think an entire breed is dangerous aren't worthy of a meaningful interaction. The only difference in sentiment between my comment and op is that I swore and directly insulted them.. They were both to put down the other side, don't lie to yourself and act like op was being polite. 🖕",
"As stated in previous comments.... Shitty people own lots of types of dogs as is shown by Pitbulls not being the most commonly owned dog by most metrics you can find but account for a ridiculous number of attacks by most metrics you can find. Also, if you need to be the idealized version of a dog owner to own a pitbull than I think that says more about the breed than about the owner......nobody is perfect everyday but apparently you need to be to own one of these dogs......like really?\n\nEDIT: idolized -> idealized",
"Then why are you commenting on Reddit?",
"THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT NON PITBULL BREEDS ARE ABUSED AT A SIMILAR RATE BUT NEVER END UP IN THE COURT SYSTEM BECAUSE IT DOESNT LEAD TO ATTACKS\n\nTHAT IS THE FLAW WITH ASSUMING PITS ARE ABUSED AT A HIGHER RATE THAN OTHER BREEDS\n\nTHAT IS THE FLAW WITH THE “STUDY” AS DESCRIBED\n\nJesus man this is not complicated!",
"Some pitbulls are fine. Some of it has to do with the shitty owners that seek these dogs out….. That all being said…. I’m not about to go get a pitbull even with that information. \n\nNot defending them, I sure af wouldn’t own one. I just think other factors help inflate it, not saying those other factors are the only reason tho.",
"You can find dozens of studies, but do any of them account for the selection bias that occurs due to violent and otherwise dangerous people buying pit bulls *because of the stigma*? I haven’t seen any.",
"We shouldn't be devaluing animals by comparing them to cars. \n\nJust to be clear. OP said there was a venn diagram between shitty dog owners and pittbulls. /u/AugustusKhan said that this was a stereotype, which I agree, but asked what percentage of dog breed is the choice of shitty dog owners and couldnt provide data. Thank you for providing the link to this data.",
"Idk how u took my comment as agreeing with op. Dogs behavior is in direct relation to how they were raised.",
"Yea but that doesn’t fit his narrative so delete your comment please",
"Also doesn't help the numbers that most dog owners when they take a bit from a dog they know have to cover it up because of how the laws in most places are and blame the bites on \"some pitbull I didn't recognize\"",
"No there is not. It's well documented and studied that abuse leads to more aggression in literally every breed.\n\nNot to mention abuse cases aren't just discovered because of attacks.\n\nThere is absolutely no evidence that an abused pitbull is more likely to attack than an abused golden",
"They can be dangerous but they can be the sweetest dogs ever, my best friends now fiancé had one when they started dating and the pit was the biggest cuttlebug ever, I don’t think there’s anything you could ever do to that dog to make her bite or get angry at you, she would never hurt a person ever, but she did not like the sight of other dogs on walks and we never brought our dogs over because of it.",
"I didn't \"act like\" OP was being polite at all.\n\nWith regard to pits, I would encourage you to do some research so that you can be more informed on that subject.",
"I’d fucking stop the shit out of that dog.",
"You can say stuff like “well documented and studied” but that’s incredibly vague and you still haven’t produced your little study. \n\nDogs display traits they were historically bred for. Pits are more aggressive than other breeds. Sorry you can’t process that.",
"Equally as dangerous no. Source that. Pit bulls specifically are responsible for >65% of dog related deaths. Second is a Rottweiler at ~10%. Pit bulls make up only 6% of the dog population. \n\nA pit bull is dangerous breed of dog in good hands. I have one, I’m a certified behavioral scientist and trainer of 10+ years, my boy is extremely well trained, he is the sweetest, but he will under no circumstance be left alone to play with our other dogs due to his nature. It’s apparent even in his play.",
"Can confirm, pit's can shred and tear and possibly break bones (not sure on the last one but I'd be more surprised if they couldn't).\n\nYou would not BELIEVE the things I've seen a pig crush with its jaws. Pig fights are no fucking joke. You just gotta let that scenario play out usually.",
"Right, because having it run into the street and get hit by a car is a much better solution.",
"Then go give them the polite speech. Bitch.",
"I've seen these same sort of videos with all sorts of breeds of dogs. Pitbull looking dogs are the only ones that receive this level of breed hate. I say pitbull looking because there is so many different breeds that get classified as \"aggressive pitbulls.\" Cane Corso, American mastiff, English mastiff, American bully, American bull dog, American Staffordshire terrier, Bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, pocket bully, and really any sort of mixed dog with a boxy head.",
"We just had the horrific death of a young boy by a violent dog with neglectful owners near where I live \n\nhttps://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/caerphilly-dog-attack-everything-know-22116545",
"Fucking idiot owner. In every single video of a pit bull attacking another dog or person, the fucking worthless owners can never pull their dog off. Its always been the owner whose dog is getting attacked that yanks the pitbull into control. I swear to god if a pitbull attacks my elderly dog, you’re going to have a dead pitbull because you trained it to attack and kill not to socialize and be friendly. You created a menace.",
"The Soviet Union was a dictatorship not a Communism. Nice try.",
"Pit bulls and german Shepard’s should not be walked by children. They are strong dogs and often unpredictable if not trained properly.",
"The only time in my life I've ever deliberately struck a dog was when I got attacked by a pit. I was 19 and working in a cemetery as a headstone setter. One evening some stray ''or off the leash'' pit bull came out of nowhere and tried to bite around my ankle. Luckily I jerked my leg just as he got to me and somehow he was only able to get the fabric of my pants in his mouth, he jerked me around a little bit and almost off my feet but I quickly gave him a swift kick under the jaw with my steel toe boot just about as hard as I could given the precarious situation and that was it, the blow knocked some of his teeth out and sent him running away yelping. That dog is lucky I wasn't closer to my work truck otherwise I probably would have went after him with the shovel that was leaning against it.\n\nEven now a little over 10 years later I feel bad to an extent for having to do that. I am an animal lover and recognize that dog likely had a shitty owner or just shitty living circumstances due to being a stray, but regardless of shitty owner, stray or not, I was completely alone when that attack happened. If that dog had got me off balance and on the ground I very well could have been mauled to death. I did what I had to do to save myself.\n\nI don't hate Pitbulls...But because of that experience I am cautious around them now.",
"Yeah, pits \\*can break\\* bones... pigs just eat them.",
"Big dog with small child holding leash; dog sees squirrel (or cat or bunny, whatever) & takes off. Either kid drops the leash, or doesn't because they have it wrapped around their hand/arm, then gets dragged across lawn/driveway/gravel, and has serious injuries. \n\nSure it's cute, until it's a horror show.",
"This. People don't understand the psychological effect this can have on the other dog. My dog (Dachshund) got attacked twice by a large dog that broke free from his leash, and is now scared shitless or very aggressive to all larger dogs and little kids. Been doing trainings with behavioural specialists for over 1 year now which hardly made any change\n\nAll thanks to the owner who couldn't hold a fucking leash. These people shouldn't own big or strong dogs.",
"Ain’t one dog off the leash man, it’s literally thousands of unprovoked attacks. I’ve been personally attacked by a well raised pit who knew me and I’ve had a cat killed by one. It’s the breed 100%",
"You gave yourself away when you said \"never would we slap 'em *for no reason*\"\n\nThere's never a reason to hit a dog or child.",
"'my dogs being off the leash are better than other dogs being off the leash!' - person who should not have dogs",
"People didn't own dogs Free Manchuria, Makhnovia, Free Catalonia?\n\nPeople don't own dogs in EZLN territory? Or in Rojava?",
"Sometimes feels like the dog being attacked goes into fight or flight mode and then realises the owner is there and then has to decide where you fit into the equation if the dog needs to protect you, you protect it, or if you can defend yourself without help, it's small wonder most dogs with their owner tend to freeze momentary if attacked by another dog out of the blue",
"FYI to all the people saying \"another dangerous pitbull\" this dog appears to be an Ameican Bully and not a pitbull. It's much shorter, stickier, and has a lot flatter nose than an American pitbull terrier. Here's all the different breeds that seem to be lumped in as pitbulls: American staffordshire terrier, bull terrier, staffordshire bull terrier, American bully, American bulldog, Cane Corso. American mastiff, English mastiff, bullmastiff, and any mixed breed dog with a square head. American pitbull terrier is actually its own breed. It's funny how many people jump to \"another vicious pitbull attack\" when they can't even really tell what a pitbull looks like. That's like see a video of a pomeranian attacking someone and saying, \"another vicious chihuahua attack!\"",
"so if *he* couldn't train the killer out of his pit bull.....?",
"In before “iTs NoT tHe BrEeD iTs ThE oWnEr” comments. It’s the fuckin breed man. Shits should be illegal to own.",
"This dog looks like an American bully, not a pitbull.",
"Shit does happen. The owner is liable for civil and criminal penalties.",
"People always say pit bulls aren’t aggressive and that it’s always the owner’s fault but I have had this happen to me 6 times walking my dog and it has been a pit bull every single time. There are plenty of shitty people in my old neighborhood who had other kinds of dogs but that never happened with any other dog breed. We’ve had other breeds of dog run up to us, but they don’t attack like that, just the pit bulls. Is it really 100% the owner or are pit bulls maybe just a tiny little itty bit more aggressive than other dog breeds?",
"My dad has two pitbulls. Some of the nicest dogs I've ever known as they were trained correctly. I would still never want a child near them as their tail could probably kill a child with how powerful it is.\n\n**Edit**: It's funny how this is considered controversial. Train your dogs right and they won't be assholes to everyone, regardless of breed.",
"The studies listed in this thread completely ignore the selection bias of choosing real world pit bull owners, I invite you to find a single study that does take that into account.",
"Top 10 Most Fatal Dog Breeds Table 2005-2017 data\n\n\nBreed \tDeaths \t% of Total\n\n\nPit bull \t284 \t65.6%\n\n\nRottweiler \t45 \t10.4%\n\n\nGerman shepherd \t20 \t4.6%\n\n\nMixed-breed \t17 \t3.9%\n\n\nAmerican bulldog \t15 \t3.5%\n\n\nMastiff/Bullmastiff \t14 \t3.2%\n\n\nHusky \t13 \t3.0%\n\n\nUnknown/unreleased \t11 \t2.5%\n\n\nLabrador retriever \t9 \t2.1%\n\n\nBoxer \t7 \t1.6%\n\n\n\nAlso \n\n\"Pit bulls were responsible for the highest percentage of reported bites across all the studies (22.5%), followed by mixed breeds (21.2%), and German shepherds (17.8%). Mixed-breed dogs and pit bulls were found to have the highest relative risk of biting, as well as the highest average damage per bite.Jun 6, 2019\"",
"Pit bulls have more 'accidents' than any other dog that result in human fatalities. I don't care if you named yours Mr. Muffins and he's the sweetest thing ever, it's just cold hard facts.",
"Post this to the hypocrites of /r/aww\n\nPs: Also prepare to get banned if you do so",
"[In the 16-year period of 2005 through 2020, canines killed 568 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 67% (380) of these deaths. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 76% of the total recorded deaths.](https://www.dogsbite.org/)\n\nWhat now?",
"No excuse. I have an 85 pound dog and I would never let my 85 pound daughter walk the dog. She walks our 20 pound dog and I walk the 85 pound dog. He has NEVER shown aggression but if he ever decided to she wouldn't be able to stop him.",
"It's literally thousands of different breeds all being incorrectly lumped under one breed, bud. This dog appears to be an American bully, not a pitbull. There is at least a half dozen pure breeds that all get labeled under \"pitbull\" even though they're not. Add to that that over 50% of mixed breed, shelter, and street dogs are all just given a blanket \"pit mix\" tag attached to them. That's like saying any small dog is automatically a chihuahua. Therefore all small dog attacks are chihuahua attacks. Therefore chihuahuas are an evil breed.",
"No that is not true. Bites and attacks are logged in hospital regardless of whatever “real world ownership” you’re referring to.",
"Of course it's a pit bull.",
"Corvettes have this propensity of driving into people with no one driving them, it’s crazy.",
"oh go back to waiting for JFK to show up and announce a VP run you tinfoil hatted clown",
"[In the 16-year period of 2005 through 2020, canines killed 568 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 67% (380) of these deaths. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 76% of the total recorded deaths.](https://www.dogsbite.org/)\n\nJust in case some pitbull lover from r/awww try to gaslight people about Pitbulls",
"I see your point. maybe there should actually be legislation restricting the ownership of dogs that are likely to cause a certain amount of damage.\n\nthe reason why I first defended pitbulls (and I honestly still tend to defend them) is that many types of dog may be dangerous if mistreated, even some that are not assumed to be dangerous. it's up to the owner to assume responsibility for their behaviour. it's not the pitbull's fault that he exists and that his owner walks it without a muzzle, etc.\n\nI have a dog, a small mutt that is considered harmless. but I have seen its tendency to run if a child is running, which could cause harm. therefore I have to be responsible and alert. if I discard these attributes, I shouldn't have a dog.",
"And with a little luck, we’ll be dropping ours later on this month.",
"What did she do to provoke the dog?",
"She was 5.",
"Are you totally ignorant about everything? Is that your shtick? I mean, it's a safe assumption because you're a gun nut, but I really want to know if you're aware.",
"\\*cough\\*Bullshit\\*cough\\*\n\nYou smell something? Is it... is it the smell of pants on fire? \n\nIt sure is.",
"They also deal in downvotes. ;)",
"This is information used in bad faith, because the AKC doesn't recognize American Pitbull terrier as a breed. They are muts. Pitbulls can be everything from an American bulldog, to a Dogo Argentino, to a Stanfordshire Terrier.",
"\"Pitbull\" is also a catch-all term for any dog that looks like a bully mix and is being noted by staff that usually do not ever see the animal and have no training in identifying dog breeds.",
"If it makes you feel better I didn't know this either and now all I can picture is a wide berth vs a wide birth.....",
"That's no reason to be attacked by a dog.",
"Exactly",
"I posted elsewhere in this thread about my story of a dog charging us and this is EXACTLY what the owner said.",
"It's because if the damage they do when they do go crazy. A chihuahua going rogue is much less dangerous and scary than a staffy or a pit bull. I don't contest that bad owners are a massive issue here, but the danger/aggression/natural strength of a breed is a key factor too.",
"Well that comment went completely over your head. My point is a pomeranian isn't a chihuahua. Just like a bulldog isn't a pitbull.",
"So weird how it’s only ever pit bulls in these videos.",
"No, you didn't give any backstory, so it sounds made up. Just a snotty little fib.",
"Goddamn your crowd is dumb and cringey, why aren't you guys contained in your shitty subreddit.",
"I mean it makes a ton of sense. I’ve just never actually thought about it….at all. But once I was corrected it’s like….oh yea, obviously. But yea the image of a wide birth in my head now….gross",
"There are 4 representative breeds that are commonly referred to as pitbulls. A case of mistaken identity is extremely unlikely to account for even a fraction of the large gap in attacks by breed.",
"Yes, you must be capable of physically restraining your pet in necessary",
"I understand your point but it feels incredibly jaded against the actual breed rather than what society and cultures have done to the breed historically.\n\nEvery pitbull I’ve met is the chunkiest, goofiest, sweetest and most loving animal I’ve been around.",
"Jack Russells are, in my experience, the most aggressive dog breed. It’s just fortunate you can easily kick them hard enough to make them run away",
"Wrong, fuck shitty owners.",
"It’s not just shitbags though. So many white collar people have pit bulls because they’re against breeders and think they’re a saint for “rescuing” a dog. Unfortunately, these people are not prepared or knowledgeable enough to raise a safe pitbull. I have a close family member that uses to love them and just had to put down his 8 year old pitbull. Why? It attacked his baby. After the second attack and a vet consultation, the dog had to be put down. I really don’t understand why people put themselves through what they do with this breed.\n\nOne of the most aggressive dogs in my neighborhood is a border collie. Any dog can be aggressive. But I’m not worried about the border collie being able to kill me.",
"No that is literally counterintuitive to the entire goal and the idea that the owners are responsible. Fuck off.",
"Jesus, you just admitted it was dangerous in the same comment that you are trying to defend them...",
"There was no backstory. A dog came running into an apartment complex and started mauling my sister.",
"The black dog starts out winning that fight. He clearly uno reverses the situation and is nipping at the brown dog's hindquarters. The only reason the brown dog starts to get the upper hand is because the black dog's owner is restricting his dog's movement. The owner should have let his dog go and either gotten back (smartest play) or worked on distracting/restraining the brown dog.\n\nIt's like kids fighting in high school. Every time someone tries to restrain Billy, Steve smashes Billy's face in while he can't fight back.",
"I guess you think if it's not a pitbull then dog attacks don't happen?",
"well you havent walked around norfolk then i dunno what to tell you, there pitt bulls everywhere regardless of whatever stats ur reading... literally go to the pound... theres more pit bulls than birds on the planet at this point /s",
"Again! Another stupid fucking pitbull attack. These dogs are retarded, why do people keep getting them. I get that they are good family dogs. When at home.",
"thats all im saying, it was an accident, shit happens, everyones like REEE NO, KIDS CANT WALK DOGS!",
"More accurate data. Anyone who doesn't think data should be as accurate as possible is willfully ignorant.",
"You never think it’s going to happen to you until it happens to you",
"how is this an accident",
"i wish that guy woulda had a set of balls and protected his dog from the pit",
"> I’ve yet to meet a trainer\n\nWell well... case closed everyone. u/spork3 hasn't meet a dog trainer who would agree. That's all the evidence we need. /s\n\n(Let's just keep ignoring the recorded facts that Pit Bull breeds are overwhelmingly responsible for fatal attacks)",
"Nothing I said was untrue? I said they can be dangerous but they can also be really sweet dogs, they aren’t all universally aggressive to other dogs, in my friends case they were. I didn’t try to defend them I’m literally just saying my experiences with them",
"I think the disconnect is any one who wants a pit bull should have to take classes and then be held extremely liable for any damages the dog may cause. Also they should cost a lot more. These dogs are meant for work and that’s what they are bred for so there could be a restriction on that too. Way to many poeple get dogs bc their cute and pit bulls just shouldn’t be anywhere near those poeple.",
"yes, agreed, all im saying is put the fuckin pitchforks down, it was a child who fell over, im sure they didnt plan to eat shit, and i assume theyre not super happy about it either",
"Oh so did it have no owner? Let me guess it magically disappeared afterwards?",
"Just as plenty of pitbulls are owned by great dog owners and they occasionally go ape anyway.\n\nSee also: Cesar Milan being attacked by his own pitbull. The fucking dog whisperer.",
"OMG I never knew. well if that isn't damming what is? Fucking dog whisperer treats his pets well sooooo.... what gives? I guess covering up Queen Latifah's dog's death reveals more about his character.",
"No I just think your story sounds made up, I don't like pitbulls at all either. You are just an obvious liar. I work at detecting liars for a living.",
"Exactly. You just dont hear about chihuahuas and westies attacking other dogs, as they are small and these attacks dont really cause anything. Its basically confirmation bias fueled by the media attention these cases get. And Im not saying that having a shit dog owner with a big, hard to train breed isnt more risky, but to say that its a perfect circle is just absolutely stupid.",
"You're right, that venn diagram is 2 concentric circles.",
"My best friend from childhood has a scar on his face from a GSD, I don't trust those dogs.",
"This thread makes me sad. I see this every time a dog attack gets posted. \n\n1 in 5 dogs in America is a pit-mix. In all likelihood, the aggressive dog in this video is a mutt, but even if it's actually a purebred American Pitbull Terrier, I wish people would stop using videos like this to spread fear and blanket mistrust of an animal that's so vulnerable and mistreated in this country. If you knew how many pits die every day in shelters, you might not be so quick to judge the people who want to give them loving homes. \n\nShould anyone be breeding pits? **No.** Are they strong dogs that often have high prey drives? Yes. Are a higher percentage of pits dog-aggressive compared to, say, Golden Retrievers? Yes. \n\nBut is the average pit more dangerous than a German Shepherd, Malinois, Akita, Dalmatian, a 100+lb mutt, or any other comparably strong high-energy dog? Absolutely not. Yet you never see anyone trying to ban those breeds or starting entire hate subreddits about them and their owners... even the ones specifically bred for their mistrust of strangers and capability to harm intruders (which pits have never been bred for). Should all traditional guard dog breeds be banned? \n\nReally wish it was possible to have a conversation on Reddit about how thoroughly useless and unreliable bite statistics are, how recently the concept of a \"breed\" was created (less than 150 years ago... American pits today haven't been bred for fighting traits in almost a century, which is 2/3rds of the breed's existence), and how the exact same fear-mongering you see now around pits used to be directed at Dobermans, German Shepherds, and other large strong dogs just a couple decades ago. There's so much more complexity to this issue than pointing at a bite graph you found posted in the banpitbulls sub. Think about it for a second: that's the exact kind of thing racists do when they ignore any complicating historical or sociological factors behind statistics linking race and arrest rates.\n\nIf this video makes you angry, it should be at this single owner who let a small child walk a large strong dog in public. Never spread fear unless you're absolutely sure you know what you're talking about.",
"Oh, they always insist",
"The overlap of “shitty people” and “pitbull owners” is very high. Pits can be the best dogs in the world in the right hands",
"No, the same sort of thing happened as it did in this picture. The owner came running in after a little while of my sister getting mauled. The dog slipped its leash and went on a rampage.",
"She CLEARLY cannot handle or control her dog.. it should be taken from her & put into foster care immediately!!!",
"Do you think this video is made up? And what do you do for a living, troll people on reddit?",
"I don't think most people are blaming the child, more whoever left the child holding a dog it can't control",
"I'm pretty sure pitts and rottweilers do not constitute 76% of all dogs so that percentage is still fucking high.",
"Wait isn't it a statistical fact that they maul more people than any other dog? \n\nIsn't that a fact pit people don't like to admit? \n\nYou want to debate the statistical facts with anecdotal evidence and act like you're the one with facts??",
"File a report with animal control/the police. Get a public record for that dog so when it does attack another animal, they can show that it had a history of that behavior.",
"Definitely bullshit. If that was the case you would have had a better story or mentioned the fallout afterwards. It's made more obvious by the details you leave out.",
"Untrained dogs can be violent. Who would have thought",
"That's why you need an adult who can control the dog holding the lead.",
"Lmfao. You're delusional",
"Nice false equivalency. I work for a top toiletry company and it's my job to weed out liars to maintain our top of the line brand. The more liars like you talk, the more obvious it becomes.",
"I never said I didn't believe you. I believe everything you said about it, sounds completely normal for Pit Bulls. \n\nMy point was purely that you are saying it was a \"sweet\" dog and then also admitted it couldn't be trusted not to attack other dogs... that you wouldn't bring your dogs. \n\nAre you saying that because it was sweet, that excuses its urge to attack/kill ever other dog it meets? I don't understand what you are trying to say, if a dogs sweet that makes it okay? This is exactly the mentality which leads people to own dangerous dogs.",
"Cute.\n\nSo why do shitbags want these dogs so badly?\n\nThe unanswered question says it all.",
"Chihuahuas are hate and nervousness incarnate",
"Eh? Friend got a puppy pit pull over quarantine. “Trained” and cared for it. Lived with 2 other dogs. Had 3 aggressive incidents. Fast for 6 months, Last incident was it attacked one of the Other dogs. No more and it had to go. They are aggressive",
"Here come the pitbull apologists",
"I'm sure whatever vapid little predisposed thoughts you have in your vacant little mind are true in every single situation. Just like I'm sure if I told you the exact same story of my sister being attacked, but if I said it was a pitbull and not a German shepherd then you'd automatically believe it. You are the intellectual equivalent of vapid smoke. Go play some checkers against yourself.",
"To say breed has no issue here is pretty ridiculous. Give the kid a highly aggressive, highly untrained wiener dog. That kid can easily overpower the dog, regardless of how untrained it was.\n\nIt's common sense that big dogs will overpower kids and some adults. Also that dogs are not human and even humans themselves are not 100% perfect listeners.\n\nDogs will always be a dog, with their own instincts. I love them, but unfortunately there are numerous cases where sometimes dogs will act in a way owners will swear they have never thought their dogs would act. That's because they are animals, not human.\n\nYou want to walk a powerful animal? Make sure you can submit it in case it decides a child is a toy. Also to expect every dog owner to just have this highly trained and extremely obedient animal is just ridiculous in its own merit. It's. an. Animal. \n\nChose the dog you can best control or you are doing both the dog and yourselves a disservice. Also be careful having two. They can get jealous and the smaller dog could get killed. Friend of mine lost a dog this way and these dogs seemed like best buds. Friend has a loving family and a very clean household. They loved them so much and gave them so much love. Absolutely insulting to assume it was \"the owners fault\" that this happened to them because they treated them absolutely lovingly, just one moment the bigger dog just got jealous after all those years. It happens.",
"[They aren't the most popular dogs though.](https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/dog-breeds/the-most-popular-dog-breeds-of-2020/)",
"Fookin landsharks",
"Sounds like Millan is a negligent owner himself tbh\n\n>Lidia Matiss’ lawyers say that the dog whisperer already knew that Junior was aggressive, and still let the animal roam free. The dog had previously bitten other dogs, including one from Queen Latifah. The singer and actress had brought the animal to Millan for training. The dog is said to have been bitten to death by Junior, but Millan lied about it afterwards, according to the indictment and said the animal had ended up under a car. The staff was instructed to continue that story. \n\n>Millan, 52, has already responded to the charges. He claims that Lidia Matiss took the risk of being bitten herself, and that she herself was negligent.\n\n>Lidia Matiss claims in 2017, she went to her mom's office building in Van Nuys, CA, a building she says is owned by Cesar. Lidia says she was visiting her mom, who worked for Cesar. \n\n>She says she encountered Cesar's pit bull, Junior, who was roaming the halls unsupervised and unleashed. She says the dog attacked her, repeatedly biting her on the legs, including her left calf. She went to the ER and it became apparent her injuries were severe.",
"Yep happened to me with a friend's boxer (hardly even a large dog) when I was little. Spent half the day looking for it just to see it find the way back home. \nNow I have a 65lbs seemingly 0% body fat GSD lady and unless you are at least twice the body weight you are not handling the dog.",
"Yes that’s what I’m saying, being cute gives you the license to kill",
"This literally happened to me a week before my dog and I’s birthday earlier this year. A 156 pound pit bull with a shock collar on ran out of his house and ran on me and my little brother with the intention of attacking me. My 4.7 pound Morkie defended us and was mauled by their dog. They took financial responsibility for it(5.3k) and seemed sorry but he often ran out of the house plus he had a shock collar on. My baby spent 7 weeks in the hospital, and they wanted to remove his tail to get skin to cover the fact that their dog literally tore the entire backside of my dog apart(he was split open). Needless to say my baby is a G 💀. He is beside me sleep rn.\n\nhttps://imgur.com/gallery/tELyzRM",
"When herding dogs herd kids we say \"that's because of the breed trait\" but when a pit attacks people it's all \"you can't say a breed has a trait\".",
"People are too big of cowards to study this.",
"A kid in Wales got killed by a dog yesterday. The breed hasn't been released but we all know what type it is.\n\nhttps://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/caerphilly-dog-attack-everything-know-22116545",
"Ever hear of a self fulfilling prophecy?",
"No I am.",
"Not cats they live with.",
"I don't think you know what point your trying to make.",
"Glad you got to tell your story! You sure told those anti-pitbullers! #alldogsnotjustpitbulls",
"I have a pit and I can confirm this statement. The strong breeds attract the dumbest, most irresponsible, flawed-logic-having people on earth.",
"While I agree that pit bulls are just not a good choice for anyone but the most experienced and disciplined dog owners (and even then, there's so many better choices out there), any sort of physical punishment can turn any dog aggressive.",
"I wasn’t making any point, I was literally just saying my experiences with pit bulls in a thread about pit bulls, not everything’s that deep buddy lol",
"Bullshit. When I was younger we had to get rid of a heeler because he attacked the cat. Pure luck someone caught it before she killed it.",
"Yep, you basically admit your faults at \"*slap em* for no reason\". You dont need to slap dogs. Ever. Violence makes dogs afraid and then they lash out.",
"Haha true, and barely count as dogs anyway.",
"If it walks like a duck",
"He didn't really go into detail how he raised the dog or any kind of proper training.",
"Why is the venn diagram of pitbull owners, pitbull defenders, and cunts just 3 concentric circles?",
"Sounds like he's a lying piece of shit but not necessarily an inept dog trainer.\n\nMy point is that if his golden retriever was \"roaming the halls unsupervised and unleashed\" (which is actually completely reasonable for a dog to do in its own space btw, depending on what 'halls' are in this vague anecdote) it probably wouldn't have attacked some poor woman.",
"Then I guess all geese are ducks? Not sure what your point is. Is it that anything that looks kind of sort of like a pitbull is a pitbull? Because that is factually false. Is it that anything that looks like a pitbull is dangerous? Not sure what your getting at.",
"That's not true at all. There are plenty of bad owners, but there are a ton of responsible pit owners as well. A lot of dog lovers eventually wind up owning a pit because the shelters are full of them. The pit community is filled with some of the most selfless people I've ever met.",
"The thing is, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Pitbulls don't just suddenly go ham. Negligency is a long haul thing.",
"He’s not a good example, ever seen the clip of him punching a dog ? He’s not a fucking dog whisperer, he’s a money hungry piece of shit.",
"Ok, fine, but I don't care if a negligent owner is responsible for a toy poodle because that poses no threat to me, my kids or my family. But since you can almost guarantee that there will be negligent pit bull owners, there's going to be maulings as a result. \n\nthere's no need for dangerous breeds in the city. they should be banned.",
"You can just hand wave every pitbull attack by saying \"well clearly the owner is shit. If they were a good owner, their dog wouldn't have attacked anyone therefore they are a bad owner.\"",
"The dog was roaming in an office building, not at home in its own space.",
">Statiscally speaking\n\nStatistically speaking, no they don't. There are several breeds of dogs that get lumped in as \"pit bulls\". Statistically, the most likely breeds to bite are smaller breeds, but they don't do significant damage like a bully breed or a shepherd breed does. Statistically chihuahuas and dachshunds are the most aggressive breeds. The biggest issue is stupid people training/breeding dogs to act aggressively. Sadly I have several family members like that, and their dogs aren't allowed around my kids. They're typically people that are very fearful of the world around them and have some weird kind of fantasies about how they're prepared for bad things, and then they accidently cause bad things to happen around them.",
"If the most celebrated dog trainer in the world couldn't keep his pit bull from killing another dog then why should we trust anyone to do it? Who's hands are the right hands?",
"🤡👀",
"In which case, fair enough. Should 100% have been leashed and Milan is a hack.",
"Dogs have innate instincts bred into them. \n\nRetrievers fetch. \n\nCollies herd. \n\nPit bulls rip apart other dog-sized animals.\n\nYes, there are many good pit bulls, but their breed, by nature, has an aggressive and tenacious pit fighting instinct bred into them. The actual breed is the actual problem.",
"Nobody wants to just blame an animal, but at some point can every single pitbull attack just be chalked up to \"bad owner\"? And even if that were the case, that would mean pitbulls should be a HIGHLY restricted breed if you need to be some highly qualified dog trainer to prevent them from attacking people.",
"Statistics say otherwise.",
"Mistakes can and will happen, even if you are plenty strong enough to handle whatever you are doing. Common sense.",
"Pitbulls do a good enough job earning their reputation. It doesn't take any work to demonize them.",
"Lmao. I bet you'd like it if we just rounded up all the pitbulls in the world and killed them because ThEy'Re So DaNgErOuS.",
"Dogs have innate instincts bred into them.\n\nRetrievers fetch.\n\nCollies herd.\n\nPit bulls rip apart other dog-sized animals.\n\nYes, there are many good pit bulls, but their breed, by nature, has an aggressive and tenacious pit fighting instinct bred into them. The breed is the problem.\n\nThis is the same as the gun debate. People shouldn’t have access to automatic weapons because of the danger they pose in the hands of stupid people. Imo people shouldn’t have access to pit bulls (or any fighting breed) for the same reason. There’s just no reason to keep breeding pitbulls.",
"Hey so threads like this always attract a lot of emotional anecdotal stuff. So I like to balance them out as I have plenty of my own anecdotal evidence on this topic. \n\nMy GSD was attacked twice when she was little - once by a Boston terrier, notorious little shitcunts, and once...drumroll...by a corgie. Boston terrier situation was trainers mistake with very obvious aggression signs coming from the dog but corgie situation was some oblivious bitch who's corgie ran up quietly to the back of my dog and attack her. No provocation no warnings nothing. We didn't even see her coming. \n\nSo fuck pitbulls? Yeah... probably. Some modern pitbull lines have been poorly bred (blue noses in particular) and the whole breed is suffering for it.\n\nBut also fuck corgis, and Bostons and honestly fuck GSDs as because of these incidents my girl became very dog aggressive and attacked dogs herself. That incident made her become what someone was to her.\n\nMy point is the buck stops with the owner. Direct your hate appropriately.\n\nFun fact.\nThe most statistically bitey dog is a Chihuahua.",
"I'm surprised he didn't kick and hit that dog more, idc if the owner is there, fuck that. Your dog is attacking mine nope... It's not the dogs fault really, it's those shitty owners not training it but it's dangerous when untrained. I hate the people that act like because dogs are mans best friend like they don't need to train them because they're domesticated, etc... Even breeds that are considered super friendly like golden retrievers you still need to do basic training, so they have boundries and rules.",
"So your argument is that this has happened only once?",
"Out of my last 3 dogs all 3 have been attacked at some point, anyone want to guess which breed it was each time?",
"Actually that's the scumbag owners who likely aren't registering their dogs, and raise them to be permanently aggressive. \n\nYou're doing a good job of not using critical thinking.",
"Kids should not hold leashes for any large dog. I had a friendly dog that was definitely still a puppy but 70ish pounds panic my dog (who had been attacked by 2 separate pitbulls). Girl around 10 was holding the leash, dog wanted to greet my dog, little girl got dragged along and could only manage to slow the approach from a sprint to a jog. My dog does not like being approached quickly by another dog while he is on leash (he was on leash both times he was attached) so he started yelping like he'd been stepped on and trying to get away.",
"or eating your other pets.",
"Well of course, but I'm willing to bet that 90% of pitbulls were exactly that way until they're weren't. Every dangerous dog isn't going to look or act like some horrifying monster, and at this point I think logically we can start to look at the breed itself as the common denominator and not just blame everything on a bad owner.",
"I would have billed them and taken it to small claims court if they refused. Don’t need the money, just the principle.",
"Yes they do, all the time",
"\"don't hit the dog, it's only killing the cat\" \n \n-idiot",
"That was exactly it, this girl was visiting her mother at work in an office building and was attacked by Cesar's dog. I agree it's one thing for the dog to be free and unsupervised at home, but you can't do that in a work environment, certainly not if you know your dog has a violent history. That also goes double for bringing dogs into his care that he was training for somebody else, he should have had a set up to keep the dogs separated so nothing happens.\n\nSure, he knows a thing or two about training, but he's not infallible, he was negligent and a liar.",
"I broke a dogs jaw like that once. (Maybe didn’t break it but it made the dog whine, the owner shout and his daughter cry)\n\nI was walking my dog, on a leash, he stops when I stop, hears well and is generally well behaved. I still wouldn’t let him loose. \n\nSo we walk our usual route, late in the evening so I have one of those big cop flashlights with me. We come to the entrance of the forest that lines our street when we see a man, his daughter and his dog, a large Schnauzer. It immediately looks aggressive and starts barking. My dog is super chill and doesn’t react. They come closer and the guy says „don’t worry I got him“ … he didn’t have him. So the Schnauzer comes charging my Leonberger, who defended himself, dogs make a horrible sound when fighting so the daughter starts crying while I try to separate the two and that shitlord of an owner says „leave them alone it’s between them“.\n\nLike any good owner I’m not going to get my dog injured so I look at the guy „get your dog“, „no“. And I just whack the dog in it’s side (it’s on top of mine as he’s already a pretty old boy at that time) and it’s not letting go so I try and whack it’s maw away from my dog. The second hit must really hurt as it let go and retreated.\nAnd that guy really tried blaming me for it. Luckily even his daughter (and the dogs‘ injuries) backed me up. \n\nI feel sorry for that poor dog and the daughter too. They deserve better. Encounters like that really make me wish we had some sort of test or license to be a pet owner or parent …\n\nAm I proud of this? Absolutely not. \nI don’t want to hurt animals and the daughter was genuinely devastated by what she had to witness and I can’t blame her for it. But it’s a story of why being able to control your pet is important.",
"Impossible, your friend must have been a terrible abusive owner. Here's a picture of my pitbull in a funny hat to prove that they are always sweet and good. v",
"Lot of pit hate in the YouTube comments there but clearly the owner is at fault for not leashing their dog especially if they know it's a psychopath",
"Depends on the dog, I have had three dogs attacked by them over the years. My first Dane actually came out on top. The other two were puppies when it happened so not much they could do.",
">This is purely speculation, but that was a family *walking their dog without a leash*. The owner *thus had no ability to control their dog*. It's just an eye test but that *absolutely looks* like a shitbag owner.\n\nFTFY",
"\"I own a pitbull and its the sweetest dog in the world\"",
"I have my own misgivings about the breed, but I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that this is not going to be a particularly unbiased source on the temperaments of pit bulls.",
"Because if the actual problem is shitbag owners, then banning a specific breed that is popular with shitbag owners will do nothing to decrease rates of dog attacks, because shitbag owners won't just stop buying dogs, instead they will move on to cause an equal number of attacks by neglecting and abusing other breeds.",
"Who's goals? Your goals? Nobody gives a fuck about your goals.",
"This happened to me and my dog 2 years ago. fuck this video hurts. Mine lost its leg by having the pitbull chew it off. Very similar to this, just walking my dog and a pitbull crossed the street, clamped on, never let go. My heart sinks. The emotions that guy just went through will haunt him for a very long time.",
"Nah other dogs would be better with the same amount of care",
"A pit is more affordable than a jacked-up Ford F350.",
"13 seconds standing around before they even tried to grab their dog.",
"This is why they're banned.\n\nAnd then you get hoards of idiots ignoring what they were specifically bread for, their genetics, arguing they're lovely really you just have to raise them in a completely loving environment.\n\nNo, they can and do just completely snap and go for anything that's triggered them and then more might suffer if they try and protect that person or animal.",
"dude, it's a troll. you don't have to keep responding to him",
"Looks more like cuddles than attack. He's trying to play. :17 - :22 seconds.",
"GSDs are neurotic as fuck, nobody said they aren't. But they are also smarter and less stubborn than pit bulls and can easily be trained.",
"99% of pitbull owners shouldn't own pitbulls",
"Yes but a chihuahua doesn’t have the bite strength or height to crush your windpipe.",
"Tell me again how aggressive pit bulls are the result of training, or a lack thereof, and not instincts.\n\nFuck pit bulls.",
"I've had this happen a few years back. The owner of the other dog was a former family friend. She would always walk her 150 lb dog around our neighborhood and let it just growl at any thing walking past her. She was always too busy on her damn phone to ever do anything. Well, one day, I am taking my 25 lb dog out for a walk. I step out onto my porch and turn on my Spotify so I can listen to music while we walk, check to make sure I have poop bags.. you know, normal things. And, the former friend walks by with her unruly dog - of course with no leash - and just says \"no, come back\" when it takes off up my yard, onto my front porch and grabs my dog's head with it's massive fucking mouth.\n\nActing as fast as I could, I try to scoop up my dog, while forcing my fist in the dog's mouth. The owner stood there and watched my dog get attacked by her dog on MY porch. I slammed my door open, ran my dog inside and grabbed a folding chair like a goddamn WWE star and went back outside. I didn't know what else to do: my wife was tending to our dog and the owner of the other dog. So I grabbed the first thing I could find near the door. It wasn't meant for the dog, after all...\n\nThen, she has the nerve to LET HERSELF INTO MY HOUSE to \"check\" on the dog, with her dog in tow... like it just didn't try to eat my dog's face. I scream at her if she doesn't leave, my dog won't be the only one with a head wound and she left. My dog needed stitched on two spots on her head, but is physically fine now. Mentally, not so much. Walks were her favorite part of the night before. Now, she hates walks, is afraid to go onto the porch, and pisses herself when she sees another dog. She, the other owner, moved away about 9 months ago, thankfully. Haven't seen her since the move, but still had to see her after the attack.\n\nI don't blame the dog after all of this, I blame that horrible woman. I also blame myself for not being prepared enough. Doing my checks about poop bags and music let me be slightly distracted and unable to stop her dog in time. I absolutely would have rammed my fist down it's throat to protect my dog on my property, and I have guilt that I didn't in time.",
"Don't ever apologize for defending yourself",
"I'll have a go.\n\nYou are correct in that you should take care around *any* dog that could fuck you up. Any animal, for that matter; a horse will kill you before you know it has a mind to if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.\n\nBut: it is not necessarily correct to credit any breed with an aggressive nature based on raw numbers. Staffordshire terriers are just in a position to do more damage than a Yorkshire terrier (which for all I know are ten times more aggressive, or one-tenth as aggressive).",
"Chalk another one up to the pitbull scourge.",
"Reading through these comments I feel like I saw a completely different video to everyone else. That looks like an adult woman, you got caught off guard by the pit rearing to the right, and the leash got yanked out of her hand as she fell, unfortunate for sure, and possibly a sign that she should not be walking the dog, but negligent? I don't think there is enough context here to make that call.\n\nHer actions, once she gets across the street suggest she does know how to handle the dog to a point, and is strong enough to do so. That pit bull just decided to go nuts on the other dog, it happens all the time, and not only with pit bulls, there are tons of other breeds that would have done the same thing as this one did.",
"Lol. Its the experience. If you can break up a pig fight you can break up a pit fight. I have broken up many pig fights. I got bite on the hand once. I was lucky I didn't loose any fingers. \n\nWhen breaking up pig fights the most important thing is to make sure they can't see each other. We use a chunk of plywood and slam it in between the pigs to break them up. It both blocks their view if each other and breaks them up without using your hands.",
"If you're too afraid of your dog to step in and help get it off a dog it's attacking, maybe you shouldn't have got that dog.\n\nThat dog should be put down, that owner fined or charged.",
"That's savage. Just stop breeding them altogether. One generation and the problem is humanely removed.",
"I work with dogs. If someone starts explaining any sort of behavior for their dog, it’s a red flag. Never listen to dog owners about how “aggressive” or “friendly” their dog is. They will lie to you every single time because they realize that the dog’s behavior is a reflection on them. If they bring up muzzling their dog, keep your hands away from the dog’s face. Learn how to read dog body language. It’ll tell you what you need to know and 75% of the time it’ll conflict with what the moron owner is telling you. Also..if it has a “service dog” vest, watch yourself. (Not talking about real service dogs. Those guys are incredible)\n\nEdit - in terms of listening about aggression, I meant towards people that are reassuring you their dog is NEVER aggressive while the dog shows signs of aggression/fear. If the ears are tucked and the chest is pointed out, do not approach. NEVER approach a fearful dog from over its head. (Patting/petting the head) Also, tail wagging doesn’t always mean happiness. If the dog shows any of the other signs like tightened lips, low tail, puffed chest or tucked ears, the slow tail wagging doesn’t mean “I want to be pet.”",
"The owner chased the dog but they sure as shit didn't dare getting into the mix until the other guy had it sorted. I can't believe they blurred out this fuckhead's face.",
"I think one of the reasons Pits get such a bad rap is that they do tend to be more territorial than other breeds, but more than that they have a very powerful jaw with the ability to lock it closed around something, which makes them particularly dangerous.\n\nBut yes, a well trained, well treated pitbull with a good nature is one of my favorite types of dogs, but as you pointed out, very few people have the ability or the desire to train them right.",
"Definitely just one family. No other evidence at all.\n\nSigned, the owner of a dog that nearly got killed by a pit bull this summer. I was bit in the attack too by the way.\n\nIt's so easy to sit on the fence and throw that drivel around when you've never been the victim of their viciousness. Pit bulls are weapons, and breed specific legislation is required to ensure the people who buy them are capable of training them and providing for them.\n\nProof of income, background check, references, these should all be required if you want to get a pit bull.",
"This but unironically.\n\nOutdoor cats are a fucking menace.",
"Lol what? Wouldn’t it be a goal of everyone that they have the personal agency to own their pets and care for them responsibly? Yes those incredibly self imperative goals. \n\nOh wait sorry - fuck pitbulls!!!",
"Like every breed taken from the street is considered a pit-bull mix. Its overwhelming how common of a label that is. I’d say that skews the ‘data’.",
"Ah, but therein lies the problem. Scumbag owners will never stop breeding them, and even if they did, a different dog breed would take its place. There are plenty of very aggressive dog breeds in the world, pitbulls are just easily accessible.",
"Over the summer I saw a woman on rollerskates being towed by her big 3 dogs. One of them saw a hare and bolted after it and the woman lost control and went flying into someone's lawn face first.\n\nThe hare and dogs narrowly avoided being hit by cars and everything worked out ok in the end. None of the dogs were pitbulls. 2 were labs, the other was a German Shepard.\n\nEven with my little dog I keep him on a tight leash around other dogs because they can be unpredictable.",
"The owner is at fault for getting the breed that alone stands for over 90% of **all** dog attacks, whether it's against adults, kids, dogs, or other pets. \n\nFuck pitbulls, *and* fuck the retards who own them. Stop going \"it's the owners, not the breed\". **It's both.**",
"Dogs, like people, sometimes just dislike/hate other dogs, for no discernible reason, and act on that. So I'd probably believe their assertion that their dog was never like that, it just didn't like you dog for some reason.",
"Did you see how terrified, meek, and cowardly the owner acted when trying to break up the attack? Could barely bring themselves to approach the leash.\n\nThat person is a shit bag, if they're afraid of going near their vicious dog, then why do they have one?",
"So when a pit bull gets out as a mistake and mauls you , you won’t get mad right?",
"There is nothing you can find anywhere that backs up ‘they are aggressive by nature’.",
"My dog is not dangerous he is a sweetie but regardless of that I leash him if I am out in public because it's not place to let my dog run up on other dogs even if it's just to play. It is about respecting another persons space. if someone is like \"is your dog friendly and you decide to like let the dogs meet on the trail that is cool. but you should not just assume it's cool to invade someone's space unless they consent.",
"You're inviting the nature vs nurture idiots with that post. The sort that believe being gay isn't a choice and that you are born that way but will argue till the end of the Earth that a dog cant be born anyway because it just needs love.",
"Oh, I stopped after this one. You are right.",
"After owning a pit (I know, what a monster) and knowing a few others, I really believe that some pits have a screw loose, and some do not. It takes some will power to ignore it when they do, but owners who love their dogs manage. This is for sure one of those owners, and I don't hesitate to admit that it's very gross. Mine does not happen to be one of the ones who has a screw loose, which makes these posts depressing as fuck. There is a lot of hate for the breed and a lot of hate for the owners of the breed. It's really a catch-22 in the forum of public opinion to explain that my dog isn't an unhinged monster. If I concede she's a monster, well, people will believe me. If I insist she's not, people will believe she is and claim I'm a bad owner for not acknowledging that she is one. This is a sweet dog from the shelter, who has been a wonderful addition to the family and has never, in spite of innumerable social interactions with dogs, kids, men, women, and cats alike has failed to show a single iota of aggression. In stressful situations she runs and defers to me. I understand how one could see all of these (and there are plenty) pitbull attack videos on the internet and arrive at the conclusion that they are all so violent that it's foolish to even adopt one. However when I adopted her I really thought I was doing the right thing, and after a few years, I maintain my position. Just thought I would try to bring a different perspective into the conversation.",
"Pitbulls' bite aren't any more dangerous than other big dogs' and in fact are not even close to the most powerful bite power in dogs.",
"Lol. Omg you are not kidding!! Ours will lean against the screen door and thump is tail against it. Its soooo loud.",
"minimum .40",
"Milan is an unqualified hack. He shouldn't be allowed around dogs.",
"Hmm. Sounds like you have no experience around the breed or around people who have them as family pets. Bizarre pile of commentary that is spouting this with near nothing to say but ‘its the breed - obviously’",
"Good dog trainers generally consider Milan to be a terribly inept dog trainer.",
"I don't care about them. I have an english mastiff that loves everyone and everything he meets. I have literally no idea how strong he is because he doesn't want to hurt me. Every once in a while he gives me a taste, and it's like a car pulling me. \n\nSo first of all, if I can train and raise a respectful and happy 200-pound dog, you can do the same with a 70- or 80-pound dog regardless of breed. \n\nAnd hey. I've never seen my dog mad, and he's never been in a fight. But uhhh...good luck. Enjoy that. \n\nControl your fucking dog. There's always bigger and badder out there...and that goes for *my* dog too, which is why I've trained him.",
"They're often the dog breed with the highest incidence of bites on humans. It's just that they don't hurt as much as a big dog.",
"My oldest was attacked twice - once by a greyhound and once by a golden retriever.\n\nYou?",
"It doesn't but that's not the point. Point is that if it could it would and the buck stops with the owner. You are responsible for your dog and it's behavior if it's 200lbs or 2lbs.\n\nI quite literally just have you an example how shitty owner's \"harmless\" corgi scarred my dog for life and my dog in turn likely did the same to others. So who's fault is it? My dog's? Mine? Corgi? Corgi owner?\n\nThe only thing worse than shitty pitbull owners are the oblivious people who think they don't need to train their shitty little dogs. \"Oh look how cute he is trying to fight the big dog\"...These people introduce bad behavior chains that can last for generations of dog as my example illustrates.",
"The fucking owners think they look cool with their dogs until it starts going ape shit and they can't control them.",
"> Wouldn’t it be a goal of everyone that they have the personal agency to own their pets and care for them responsibly?\n\nSure, but that has nothing to do with your previous comment.",
"I don't know about you, but if my dog is killing my cat, I'm not going to be giving it ear scratches to get it to let go.",
"[watch this at your own discretion](https://youtu.be/iik25wqIuFo)",
"I’m sure there’s a subreddit for dumb ass pit bull owners. Why don’t you stick to that.",
"Drop your leash and grab attacking dog by it’s hind legs - PULL HARD!\n\nFall on it sideways away from your face.\n\nThen do whatever is necessary to gain control.",
"Its the combination, owners who don't understand the breed and the genetics of the breed itself. Pitbulls were bred for dogfighting and therefore dog aggression and killing ability were selected for. Its very different from a dog people may think is aggressive like the Rottweiler. Rottweilers were bred for drafting and as cattle dogs, not for dogfighting. Unfortunately, most owners of pitbulls are either unaware or choose not to believe that genetic traits exist. I agree that they should be banned except for permit holders.",
"And that is exactly what happens if you look at places where they ban a specific breed. All of a sudden you see another breed go up in the bite statistics. Wonder why!",
"Dog ownership should require licensure and inspection of facilities.",
"Your username is 🔥\n\nEdit: I agree with the principle of sending them the bill 😬",
"Sure. And I agree. But bringing up the fact that a chihuahua is more ‘bitey’ than a pit Bull doesn’t change the fact that pit bulls are wayyyyyyyy more dangerous, because of how they have been bred. \nYou can yank/pickup/throw a smaller dog but pits, hooooo boy, usually if someone gets in the middle of those fights they get fucked up.",
"And then throw into traffic.",
"I reported my downstairs neighbors dog . It was a very aggressive dog that would always lunge at me or my dog but the owner usually kept it under control. One day it got loose and attacked me. I did manage to punch/kick it away from me but if I wasn't wearing a heavy coat I would have been bit. Animal control came round and said oh so it didn't bite you and I said no but it is only a matter of time before someone gets hurt. They did nothing and came to the conclusion that the dog was harmless. Luckily I think the owner came to this same conclusion and within the month the dog was gone. Animal control is not a very effective policing body",
"But it does..? Are owners not responsible for their animals all of sudden? Is that not common knowledge? Is that not literally how the adoption and paperwork process works? \n\nYou’re in charge if you let your kid take the aggressive dog out. And its on the owner if something happens.",
"There's only one reason people own these dogs.",
"My neighbor’s shitty chihuahua can’t kill my kid though. That’s the difference.",
"That sounds like the most made up statistic ever lmfao. Again if the owner knows their dog is a nutjob its their job to keep the dog reined in. The dog is just being a dog. Fuck anyone who doesnt have the brain capacity to understand that in my opinion.",
"fuck people who own pit bulls. Garbage dogs for garbage people.",
"“Negligent pit bull owner” sounds redundant.",
"Fuck that shit. I've played this situation out in my head before. I'm sure it'd be very different if it actually happened. But I imagined I'd punt that fucking dogs head right off if it came at my dog.",
"Yes, it’s because chihuahuas generally don’t kill or hospitalize people or other pets when they attack, while pits are capable of serious injury from a single bite",
"Owner needed to let go of his dog after the pitbull got ahold of it. You need to get on that dog fast and do not hold back.\n\nAt a 4th of July get together a while back, a friend of mine's brother brought his pitbull. Very poorly trained and has been aggressive previously. Another friend showed up later but had to bring some dogs as he was essentially dog sitting. Pitbull was in the garage and other dogs in the house. A few people, myself included, was making our way from the garage to the house. Pitbull on the other side of the garage as we went inside. I was the last one and I don't know if the pitbull heard or somehow saw one of the other dogs but it was on it in the blink of an eye. Couldn't get the door closed in time. This pitbull is fucking massive, probably 80 or 90+ lbs. The dog he got was maybe 15 to 20 lbs? Had it in its mouth instantly and started shaking. I stepped up and punched the pitbull in the side of the head as hard as I could 3 fucking times before it let go. Other dog survived and just needed stitches. Pitbull had a good sized knot. \n\nPoint is too many people just try to tug dogs apart. With a pitbull especially that will not work and unless you have something to pry it's jaws apart you're only going to get your hands fucked up. Act quickly and do not be timid. If I was ever not able remove an attacking dog from one of my dogs then I'm gouging it's fucking eyes.",
"Isn't it weird how that works with the news?",
"Do you always argue anecdotes > statistics? If so, you're exactly the type of uneducated person who shouldn't own a dog.",
"My dog's 60 lbs, and highly energetic, but well behaved. So, when my two year begged to hold the leash, I figured why not?\n\nWe were walking fine, all together, until my daughter got distracted and stopped, but the dog kept walking with me.\n\nPlop! Right on her face!\n\nNow, she still holds the leash, but I hold it in the middle to make sure she doesn't bite the dust again! 🤣",
"How about you go fuck yourself you have no idea what your talking about.",
"yes. foster care. in the woods where it has plenty of space to run.\n\nProblem dogs are solved with lead and brass.",
"You shouldn't trust any dog you don't know",
"But it is the subreddit that selects which news stories get linked. Think about the news about the “migrant caravan” every election year. It happens all the time but only gets news when they can demonize them for political gain.",
"Here's a famous trainer with a tv show who couldnt control his pit. \n\nhttps://businessinsider.mx/cesar-millan-covering-up-dogs-attack-on-queen-latifahs-dog-2021-9/?r=US&IR=T",
"That's not true, there are many dog breeds that will just go after another dog for no apparent reason.",
"I had this dumbass living in the same apartment building as me with two very large huskies. One of those dogs was too big for the building much less two. Also they were oversized for him. He couldn’t control either or both of them. So one day I’m walking my beagle and this dumbass loses the leash of both dogs and they flat out start attacking my beagle. He’s yelping and for a few seconds I’m trying to use his leash to pull him away but with two of them it’s not possible. That’s when I went from flight to fight. I’m 230+ so when I say I put my full weight into some kicks you know they had some real force. Enough to bruise my leg. That was the only way to stop them. My dog escaped with “only” 16 stitches. But he healed up all the way thank god. \n\nOwners need to be really thoughtful about their ability to control a dog and everyone else they give the leash to.",
"Pitbull attacking for no reason is the perfect summary of most all Pitt attacks. I'm tired of this breed. It's a loaded gun and I don't want 99% of people to have a gun either. You can't certify a person to be a responsible dog owner. You can't certify a pit to be a good dog either.",
"I've seen it happen with Great Danes and Chihuahuas too. I realize I didn't get ahead of the pit bull hate circlejerk but it's worth submitting still.",
"> I'm not a dog owner but...\n\nThen you should not be expressing your opinion, as it is likely underinformed compared to someone with decades of experience. \n\nYou wouldn't hear from a blacksmith with 35 years of experience, then turn-around and say - \"I'm not a blacksmith, but...\" \n\n> I wouldn't think to release my dog \n\nThat is fine. It's okay to not know. It's why we ask and listen to people with experience, because their lessons are learned through experience, and are valuable. \n\n> the mechanism to release is \n\nTo drop the leash. \nIt takes less than 1 second. \n\n> that pit would continue to chase it and fuck it up \n\nPossibly. \nIn my experience, with actual attacks, the dog was able to escape. \nIt also increases the chance of the human reaching safety. \n\n> do whatever I could do to make that pit think this might not be the best idea \n\nThis is a bad idea, which is why it is advised against.\n\nWe *just* had a story of a pit bull dragging and killing a human. \nThey're a breed originally used for *blood sports*.\n\n---\n\nI want to be clear that I am not trying to be mean, but it is worth while to educate people, and to break down invalid ideas that will put people in danger.",
"There’s a lot the parents could have done to prevent the dog from being out of control, as well as a lot they could have done once the dog was out of control. The father appears to be casually walking another dog well in the background while potentially the mother has left the child to stand near her dog as it attacks another dog. The mother could have been much more aggressive in gaining control of her animal, and the father could have been an impactful player had he made an effort to contribute. \n\nNot saying anyone had to do anything. These folks are free to buy dogs and handle them recklessly as long as they can afford the penalties for their lack of responsibility. The real victims are the neighbors and dogs who have to be subject to these adults indifference.",
"True, but the damage a shitty chihuahua owner vs pit bull owner an do exposes the pit bulls",
"Yeah you're an idiot. One day I imagine you'll walk in front of a bus. Those type of statistics are from people just like you.",
"I’m so happy he’s okay 😢 what a trooper",
"Negligent dog owners, unfortunately, are the majority of dog owners.",
"At that point I don’t know how you restrained yourself from smacking the shit out of the owners",
"I hate these dogs and the people who buy them. If your pitbull attacks me I'm going to kill it in front of you.",
"That's fine, I believe you. But being 'ok' with dogs shouldn't produce an aggressive dog. The vast majority of dog owners are only 'ok' with dogs.",
"the anti-pitbull crowd seems very reminiscent of racists to me...",
"Thus the negligence.",
"My finger is getting tired from downvoting all this pit hate. Hey maybe we need race specific legislation in humans, I mean if you look at the statistics individual races commit crimes at much higher rates. Oh wait, that would be deplorable racism? Yes, yes it would. That's what you sound like though. Gonna go cuddle my good girl now, the most gentle creature I've ever known in my life, never hurt anything that wasn't a squeaky toy.",
"saying ‘statistics’ without posting or linking said info is a pretty fucking funny assertion.",
"There is a myriad of dogs that are larger and more dangerous than pitbulls if we are talking about absolute danger. The danger of the any particular breed is not in the discussion, the behavior is. \n \nI responded to the OP in an attempt to show that behavior is not unique to pitbulls and is largely the fault of owners. People always pile up in these threads on pitbulls and ignore the exact same behavior from small breeds precisely because they don't perceive them as dangerous. Which is unfair to the dogs and bad for ALL breeds. \n\nI can't tell you how many times I see oblivious owners hold their little ankle biter back who is absolutely losing its mind with aggression and then say \"oh he is friendly he just wants say high\" and I am like \"no he wants to kill my dog, he just can't\". It's ignorance and lack of experience.\n\nI am not defending pitbulls (I am not the biggest fan) I am saying hold all dogs to the same standard. A dog is not a toy even those the size of one.",
"Lol looks like someone learned the term selection bias but doesn’t actually know stats",
"For real, I know bad owners are a thing blah blah blah but I've never heard of a fucking jack Russel terrier mauling a baby to death or just snapping after years of \"seemingly normal\" behavior. \n\n\nI will never, ever own a pittbull and it drives me nuts that people work overtime to be empathetic toward them. It's a fucking dog who cares! I love my dog so much but people are more important. If it's a breed that can't be controlled lets just quit dealing with pit bulls. \n\nLions look really peaceful and nice most of the time too.",
"\"Never did we slap them for no reason\"",
"Kill the dog …fine the owner fuck people who think pit bulls are safe",
"I’m willing to be charitable to the negligent owner since I don’t know the situation: maybe he recently picked up the pitbull at the animal shelter and hasn’t had time to work on its behavior. And I’ve personally had a couple of instances of the leash slipping from my fingers because the dog suddenly pulled in a direction I wasn’t expecting. \n\nHowever, I understand the anger and frustration because me and my dogs have been attacked a couple of times by dogs that run away from home. From my perspective, I think a lot of dog owners in my neighborhood don’t walk their dogs sufficiently, so they escape and just go crazy with their newfound freedom. I’ve dealt with a lot of runaway dogs in my neighborhood. I kind feel bad about bringing the dog back to its owner because their fun adventure is over. However, being in the county’ animal shelter probably isn’t that fun either.",
"I've literally seen chiahuahuas and great danes do this. Hell I've been nipped at by a german shepard.",
"I hate that 99% of the time when a dog that was not on a leash has rushed me and my miniature schnauzer, the owner is running after them shouting “Don’t worry! He’s friendly! I don’t know how he got off the leash!” \n\nLike, don’t fucking lie to me. Your dog wasn’t on a leash to begin with but you want to deflect the responsibility to the dog because you’re an irresponsible dickhead.",
"Tbh I dropped out for a reason lmao",
"Would have cost more in court fees than the vet bills. Wasn't worth it and these people were definitely not good people. They paid the ticket so it hit them in the wallet eventually.",
"Rough. My puppy and I got charged by a pit this summer and luckily he was small enough for me to pick him up. Not my first rodeo with aggressive dogs though, so I stepped towards it to confront it and it backed down. And then the white trash bubba meth head owner told me to \"kick her in the fucking mouth\", after she was backing down and started going back to her yard. That's when you reward the dog... it was her instinct to charge us, she can't be blamed for it, but ultimately she made the choice to back down and go home, which should have been rewarded.... \n\n&#x200B;\n\noh well, too bad her owner is a cunt.",
"I think it's overstated to say they just suddenly go ham. \\*Something\\* made the dog go off, but it could easily be that the \"something\" was a thing a human would never think is reasonable. And that's the problem, because if the dog will go off over something unexpected then the dog can't be trusted around humans.",
"In your situation I would have found the dog and killed it. It probably did that shit to others and would easily kill a kid.",
"Damn he a real one 4 dat",
"Cherry pick stories all you want but I bet you'd have a hard time building a sub reddit out of terror stories of most breeds of dogs. \n\nI'm sure there's plenty of Pitt bulls that are truly good dogs and bad ones that can be trained but that's not a risk I care to consider. If there's tons of reports about a certain breed of dog going crazy on people, I'm gonna side with people and not dogs.",
">African Americans are responsible for well over half the homicides in the country, far beyond their proportion of the population. Not every African American is a killer, but you're more likely to be killed by an African American than any other race. \n> \n>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race\\_and\\_crime\\_in\\_the\\_United\\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States)\n\nThat's you. That's what you sound like. The fact that something is TRUE doesn't automatically make it a valid point. There are many reasons beyond genetics for why BOTH statistics are true.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n(I'm not making the above point about African Americans, I'm just pointing out it's the exact same argument, using the exact same accurate data, as is being made above.)",
"Time to put the pitbull down.",
"We should have people get a license for owning pitbulls and other dangerous dogs.",
"I’m assuming all shelter dogs are spayed or neutered. \n\n*It should be a crime to have an unsterilized pitbull.*\n\nLet’s just adopt and do our best with the remaining pitbulls, but we need to stop breeding them.",
"oh ok, pff",
"So brave.",
"In an ideal world we take care of the living population, but sterilize them and let the breed die out.",
"i have a very good recipe for some lentil soup.",
"Lol you people have issues.",
"This is why people bring bats out to stop this shit. Be able to control your dog, especially a pit bull, or don’t fucking have one. It’s that simple.",
"Dogs understand dominance. They’re emotional creatures. If you smack them on the nose & scold them properly, they’ll learn right from wrong & respect. If you don’t discipline your dog properly it thinks it’s the alpha & can go rogue. You need to establish dominance with dogs at an early age.",
"There's just no reason for pit bulls to exist. They were bred as fighting dogs and serve no purpose. Breeding them should just be outlawed. Let the breed fade away.",
"Am I off base here or does it seem like people have a problem of mixing up human and animal morality? I get the sense that because we're often very careful not to be biological essentialists with humans, that ends up getting applied to dogs too and we have trouble accepting that those standards can be different.",
"I mean, I think you're making a really silly assumption. You honestly think I haven't been around one of the most common breeds of dog in the world? I've owned pit breeds, I've had several friends and family members in my life who own pitbulls. Guess what? Almost every single one of those dogs were sweet and friendly. Also guess what? Some of those dogs ended up biting people, biting dogs, killing other dogs, etc, and at a MUCH higher rate than any other dog breed I've ever been around. \n\nWe can sit here and argue anecdotally, or statistically if you want, and I'd still be right. I love dogs, I don't have a bias against a particular breed for no reason. You should try and put your fee-fees aside and understand the world around you.",
"follow the train of thought, yes, im sure the parent feels like an ass now, im in agreement with it being the owner (adults) fault... im not disagreeing. But it was obviously just an accidental mishap. No one was like, \"GO GET HIM BOY!!!!\" im sure they learned their lesson and everyone seems okay. thats literally all im saying, just relax a lil... that usually handles dog fights pretty well too... just chill. Also, if a pitbull ran up on my baby bonnie like that 2 things would happen One: Bonnie wouldnt have lost. Two: I woulda punched or kicked that pit in the fuckin head once hard enough that it knows better... Not hold my dog down while it bites her, wtf",
"pItBuLlS ArE nOt ViOLeNt",
"Pitbull, pitbull, and ... a pitbull.",
"And people want to say it’s the dog’s fault smh dog’s act on instinct, people have the ability to curb that and instill some control, or you can be this jackass and let your dog just do whatever they want until it’s too late",
"Had a Golden Retriever turn violent. Found out he had a brain tumor that was the likely cause.",
"Or get a time machine and do the owner before they get the dog",
"I remember getting attacked by a pitbull. My friends stood there not knowing what to do. The owners stood there not knowing what to do. Me getting my flesh torn from my leg not knowing what to do. \n\nI did nothing to prompt it. I was just throwing a football with my friends. I wasn't even the closest person to the pitbull when it started to run. I wasn't even the one holding the football when it attacked. It just decided to choose me out of anyone. \n\nLuckily it just decided to stop and run away back to the owners. Best thing I heard from the owners after being attacked by the dog was , \"its not our dog , its our friends dog , we are just looking after it.\" ... then why did you have it off leash, you know nothing about it. \n\nNow I have a fear of dogs off leash. Owners think its no problem, their dog is an angel. Well, even if your dog is an angel, I dont know that, you don't understand my personal experiences with dogs. When that dog runs up to me that attack rushes through my mind. I still can't believe how many people think it's no problem to let their dog off leash at a park. I still can't believe how many people look at me like I'm in the wrong when I ask them to leash up their dogs",
"Let me guess: the pitbull walker is blurred out because they are a minor that could not handle that dog if they tried.",
"The \"statistics\" are literally in the top comment of the thread you're replying to",
"This is exactly why you ALWAYS carry a gun while walking your dog.",
"this same thing happend to me a week ago.. a pit bull ran up on me while i was walking my dog. my dog promptly put it in its place and it ran off. and if it hadnt i woulda put my boot in its face.",
"Thank you for the reply - I hope you were able to stop the attacks in time.",
"it's not for no reason, it may be without provocation but that doesn't mean it's no reason. pitbulls attack without provocation because they were bred to.",
"Makes you want to punch the owner afterward.",
"I had to deal with a pitbull attack right across the street between my neighbors just a couple weeks ago. I attempted to break it up multiple ways to no avail. Police showed up and tazed the attacking dog twice to no avail either and shot it. \n\nSadly both of the dogs died but good riddance on the Pitbull, it was not the first time this dog attacked apparently.",
"Pitbull attacks are the one reason I've considered starting to carry a gun. \n\nThere's more and more pitbulls being adopted by people who absolutely cannot handle them around here and probably everywhere in the US. I don't have anything against them but when they attack they are absolutely lethal. If I get a dog, or I'm walking my sister's dog, I would feel horrible if they died because I couldn't stop a pitbull attack. Let alone a child or someone else who might get attacked.",
"thats not what happened. they were jogging with their dog and got pulled off balance. not everything = everything grow up",
"I cannot comprehend thinking this is at all a good argument.",
"How to get your dog shot in ten seconds.",
"When this kind of stuff happens u really have to start punching or kicking the other dog. Trying to hold them away from each other only gets urself hurt.",
"Wait, people actually use fake service dog vests? How low can you go?",
"If your child is not strong enough to restrain your dog, they shouldn’t walk them. What about that is difficult to understand? You risk the safety of BOTH of them",
"and theres a million pit bulls per square foot jesus",
"We need to get rid of dangerous dog breeds, specifically pit bulls.",
"Americans will be smarter when they ban this dog breed nationwide that's responsible for 70% of all fatal dog attacks. For now American stupidity knows no bounds.",
"I disagree. Not every owner is a liar. My dog is aggressive with other dogs and I am very upfront about that. He is people friendly and And has never tried to bite anyone. Once he growled when the vet was examining him. Ever since I make the vet muzzle him. I don’t want to take any chances of it happening though. I know my dog is a dog with a mind of his own. \nSo please don’t categorize all dog owners as liars.",
"lol yea, i agree.",
"I'm hesitant to take these stats at face value. \"Pitbull\" as a category lumps together several different breeds and pretty much any mix that looks \"bully,\" and accounts of attacks often mislabel other breeds such as dogo argentinos or cane corsos as pitbulls. This is on top of the fact that pitbulls are one of the most popular types of dogs in the US generally, as well as being popular with people who are likely to fail to socialize and neglect dogs, or even train them to attack other dogs or people, and may even breed them for those purposes. \n\nThese are still large, powerful dogs that can be very dangerous, but considering the above factors, I'm hesitant to apply that generalization to any particular dog based on breed alone, and I tend to think the whole issue is overblown and the focus on breed detracts from the importance of other major factors.",
"By the way, I would beat you in checkers or even connect 5.",
"This is based as fuck. Reddit lefties will hate it. \n\nMuch like how as icecream sales increase, more drownings occur. They are unrelated, there's additional factors that cause pitbulls overrepresentation.",
"Why wouldn't you listen to someone talking about how aggressive their dog is? If someone tells me their dog is leash reactive or something I'm gonna go ahead and trust them lol.",
"Were humans ever selectively bred for ~~dog~~ human fighting traits? Humans don't have a lot of gene variance across different ethnicities but [dogs have quite a bit across breeds.](https://www.americanscientist.org/article/genetics-and-the-shape-of-dogs)",
"He straight up admitted to slapping his dog...so...",
"It really depends on why you're considering the dog attack statistics.\n\n* If you're aiming to use the statistics to reduce the incidence of dog attacks, then the root cause of the skewed statistics absolutely matters, because it will determine whether your intervention is likely to work or not. E.g. If the skewed statistics are solely due to pit bulls being inherently more likely to attack than other breeds, and owner behaviour isn't a significant factor, then eliminating pit bulls as a breed will be effective at reducing attacks, while trying to improve behaviour among owners will not. However if the skewed statistics are solely due to negligent or abusive owners being more attracted to pit bulls, and not due to pit bulls being inherently more likely to attack than other breeds, then trying to improve behaviour among owners will be effective at reducing attacks, while eliminating pit bulls as a breed will not.\n* If you're aiming to reduce your personal risk of being attacked by a dog, then these statistics would suggest you should stay away from pit bulls regardless of the underlying cause of the skewed statistics, because it doesn't matter whether the skewed rate of attacks by pit bulls is due to them being an attractive breed to shitbag owners, due to the fact that, if that's the case, avoiding pit bulls will help you avoid dogs that are owned by shitbags.\n* If you're just into analysing dog attack statistics without intending to use the results to change laws or behaviours, then analysis of confounding variables (like owner shitbag-ness) would definitely be something you'd want to do as part of any competent statistical analysis process.",
"I find it insane that they tried to take *you* to court....What did they expect would happen...?",
"\\>pitbull \n\\>no reason \npick one",
"\"never\" \"past 8 years\" lol\n\n<https://kenneltocouch.org/2019/07/pitbullhistory/#:~:text=At%20the%20turn%20of%20the,to%20ban%20Pit%20Bulls%20completely.>\n\nDuring the surge of immigration to America, many families kept their Pit Bulls, for they were highly intelligent and friendly family pets. Historical photos exist of the Pit Bull protecting the young family children, acting as a nanny dog. Some Pits even allegedly had jobs on the family farm. Though bred to fight and attack, the Pit Bull became notorious for being sweet family companions. During WWI and WWII, Pit Bulls were even featured as a national mascot, representing protection and fearlessness.\n\nIn the 1980’s in particular, the Pit Bull’s well-mannered reputation began to go south. A resurgence of dogfighting swept America. The once beloved and positive image of the Pit Bull took a turn for the worst, as aggressive behavior became reinforced, animal abuse spiked, and the now stereotypical chains and spiked collars became a penchant for Pit Bull owners. Though outlawed in 1978, dogfighting unfortunately continues today, and has contributed to the negative image of the Pit, causing breed bans to this day.",
"The obvious implication is that he slapped his dog for \"good\" reasons before it killed the cat. Work on that reading comprehension.",
"Yeah but that anecdotal evidence from a stranger aligns with my already existing opinions, sO I aM SuPerIOR.",
"This is every damn pit bull owner. I have cared for 6 dog bite patients. All pit bulls. All say the dog was never like that. I don’t trust those dogs. People always say statistically they aren’t that bad, but when you work in a hospital and that’s all you see it’s enough to take pause.",
"I was thinking that too - if a dog attacks mine, I’m dropping my dog’s leash and going after the attacking dog 2 on 1. \n\nIt’s like when you get in a fight in sports or a bar - you don’t hold your buddy back and let him get punched, you go pull someone from the other side out of the fight.",
"The obvious implication is that he slapped his dog for \"good\" reasons before it killed the cat. Work on that reading comprehension.",
"The fact the dog got loose made it negligent. If you can't control and animal of that size and aggression and this happens, it's entirely your fault. I have no idea why people get big dogs they can hardly, or can't control, instead of one that's 40 pounds. \n\nYou're also acting like because it happens all the time it's not that bad. If it was a smaller dog it could have easily been killed. Pit bulls are banned here and I'm glad they are. The[ stats behind dog attacks](https://www.coloradoinjurylaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/) show why. Who knows how many other dogs they kill too.",
"Just a few things:\n\n* Why do Pitt apologist don't believe in race traits? Ever seen a Pyr service dog? Never it's the dumbest idea ever!\n* If you follow the one walking the dog, it's not the kid but the owner who was holding the leash.\n* Pits don't have that strong of a bite\n\nThe problem with Pits is that their \"Attack threshold\" is so fucking low. Anything can set them off, a squirrel farting? Attack mode. \n New color of butterfly? Attack mode. Yes they can be cuttlebug or whatever, but the problem is that you never know what can set them off!",
"My shit head neighbor or left his pit bulls our unchained and unfenced. One day they saw me out back at my trash can and came back and started jumping on me. One nipped my hand and then the other jumped into me so hard he broke skin through jeans. Fucking dickhead didn't do shit with those dogs but leave them outside to bark.",
"This in one reason I do believe open carry of a firearm in the USA makes sense, too many negligent dog owners who acquired difficult breeds and don’t train them correctly.",
"Not to be that guy, but doesn't the fact that this can even happen suggest that we shouldn't have pitbulls?",
"People are in denial but fact of the matter is they've been bred for a while to be vicious.\n\nThere needs to be some sort regulations with owning one as well as a movement to selectively breed less aggressive ones.\n\nThere are more aggressive dogs but they are not as dangerous, so they aren't a problem.",
"Yeah, it seems like the wrong people decide to take that job, not realizing the goal is to protect people over animals. My home town's animal control was notoriously awful, to the point that my neighbors had to have their dogs removed after the dogs attacked another neighbor's dog while they were outside. \n\nMy mom would call animal control and they'd come out and say, 'well the dog is back on the property so there's nothing we can do'.",
"I was watching my girlfriend's family's dog once and while she was old and a bit disobedient, she was always fine. Suddenly (to my dog ignorant perspective) she lunged towards another dog seemingly unprovoked and I had to hold her back by the shoulder (probably shouldn't as it might confusedly turn on myself, actual dog owners correct me) as the leash pull alone just seemed to agitate her. \nShe calmed down quickly, but they told me she'd never done that before, so I made them take her to the vet and it turns out she had cancer and was in a lot of pain. \nSo I'm sure such issues can happen spontaneously, but nevertheless probably has a reason so if truly spontaneous, a vet might be a good next stop.",
"For all the pit bull apologists, note how you never see a basset hound exhibiting this behavior.",
"Dogs need to be on leashes whether they are friendly or not, because you never know the temperament of another dog. Don’t take chances. I had a little dog run up to my shepherd today. She barked and was stand offish. she is not harmful … as far as I know. \nMy other shepherd would have bit that dog if he got hold of it. You never know. Always air on the side of caution even if your dog is super friendly.",
"It's pretty clear they were slapping their dog before it became aggressive.",
"which is great because your dog could defend itself, and you also could put your boot in it's face to defend\n\nbut imagine you have a tiny dog, a pitbull can kill it in a fraction of a second with a neck bite, it's disturbing the videos you can find of things like this online",
"Check out [this cute thing pitties are known for](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdIsOZQHeBY). Oh it's so cute how they lock their little jaws :3",
"They really do...",
"While the dog may not actually be an American pit bull terrier, in the US (and for sure Ontario, maybe all of Canada) pit bull is used to describe all of the [dog breeds](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull) mentioned. \n\nLiterally this week there was a [news story](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/blu-finally-released-vaughan-animal-services-breed-specific-legislation-1.6235086) about a family who was making a public plea to have their pocket bully returned after he was seized by animal services. He was returned and [that same dog ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/blu-dog-attack-ontario-pit-bull-1.6241190)attacked a 13 year old kid yesterday. \n\nDo I think all pit bulls (or similar breeds) are vicious? No. But given the data on how they make up a[ HUGE percentage ](https://www.mkplawgroup.com/dog-bite-statistics/) of dog bites they should be banned. Especially within city limits.",
"African Americans were selectively bred for strength, yes. See: Slavery. \n\nAgain, I cannot overstress, I am saying nothing negative about African Americans, I'm husband to one and father to another (as well as pet-parent to a wonderful pit mix). I'm just pointing out that the anti-pit argument being made here is identical to an equally factual racist argument you can make against African Americans.",
"Ah yes, should've let Lucky eat the cats in peace and then extend your neck for him to chew when he got hungry again. Brilliant",
"I’d kick the fuck out of that dog if it touched my dog",
"It's not a good argument. They're both terrible arguments. They're just effectively identical arguments. If you think the argument against African Americans is bullshit, and you absolutely should because it is, then you should feel the same way about the same argument against pits. They're equally factually correct, and they're equally fucked up when you actually consider the whole picture.",
"\"retriever\" in golden retriever refers to a working dog whose job it is to fetch freshly killed game fowl, ducks, quail, geese, etc. often the quarry isn't even dead yet. they carry the shot animals in their mouths back to the hunter. \n\nthat's not merely a matter of training. sure it takes training, but it's also necessary to wholly breed out their natural aggression before one even embarks on the training. to attempt to do so beforehand is a fool's errand. \n\nthat's the reason why retrievers are nearly always such good friendly pets, because their bloodlust has been removed from their genetics. \n\nit's the polar opposite with pitbulls, their genetic lineage of working dogs first as terriers then as catch dogs then as fighting dogs has amplified their aggression. they're naturally more aggressive than a wolf baseline. training has sweet fuck all to do with it, you can't erase 10,000 generations of breeding with some chews and head scritches.",
"I had a similar experience. In my case, I was walking my maltese, and this dog which looked pitbull-esque (I can’t tell the difference between pitbulls, boxers, bulldogs etc…) runs from behind me and attempts to bite my dog. I immediately swing my dog on her leash, which is not ideal but better than getting bitten by the other dog. While I’m essentially swinging my dog around on her leash, I’m looking around to see if the dog’s owner is around, if I’m going to get some help out of this situation. There’s no one.\nSo, I’m trying to get my dog in my arms and I fall down. I end up wrestling this big dog on the ground, who thankfully is more focused on trying to get my small dog than attacking me, and finally the dog owner’s arrive, with another unleashed dog in tow. \nI probably should have yelled at them, but I had no confidence they had that dog under control, so I got the hell out of there. But I was and still am seriously pissed: if you have a dog with so much aggression, then how do you not supervise it?",
"Unwarranted shitbull attacks and their repercussions make me sad. Something I have to live with every day.",
"Didn't take long to find the guy in the comments comparing black people to dogs. Way to go buddy.",
"I’m 5’11 close to 300 pounds. My bfs dog is a 6/7 month skinny but energetic boxer. I had her on the leash walking her in the backyard and she damn near pulled me! Because of that I’m scared to take her to the park by myself because she’s so strong and runs off sometimes. \n\nLittle kids absolutely should NOT be handling big, energetic dogs like that (I say energetic because maybe they could handle an older/calmer dog).",
"I mean that's a good idea as well. With that said, there is a steady stream of videos of pitbull randomly attacking people/dogs on reddit it almost seems monthly. And when pitbulls are responsible for 75-80% of yearly dog fatalities in the US, I would say the breed definitely has something to do with it.",
"FINALLY someone said it, thank you. People are so uneducated.\n\nDogs can only have *good* personality traits due to their breed. Here's a little quiz to help you understand. Only one of these statements are true:\n\nGolden retrievers are family-friendly dogs and are generally very safe pets\n\nPit bulls are not a family-friendly dog because they are generally *not* safe pets.\n\nIf you thought number 2 was true, you don't understand genetics",
"I’ve heard people say it’s best to choke them so they instinctively let go. I think a number of dogs are able to clamp down and still breathe so if they have a collar you can choke them.",
"Guy was way too calm. I would have kicked the fuck out that dog.",
"Pitbulls should be banned.",
"Definitely not unexpected. Look at the breed.",
"Yeah our dog was attacked in our front yard years ago by a loose pitmix. My wife woke me up screaming and i ran outside in January to see the pit had our dog on the neck. I tried hitting it for about 2 seconds then took a golf club to it until it let go. I didn't feel good about doing it but it was beating this dog or potentially my dogs life.",
"The attacking dog would be in a fucking chokehold until it wasn’t breathing. Idgaf",
"same thing happened to our dog. Homeless guy had pit bull and it attacked. Dog needed to go to vet. huge vet bill. No accountability. Sad. Our dog is fully recovered, except for the anxiety it gets around other dogs now.",
"Wouldnt say it's at fault for just being a pitbull. Plenty of bad owners have large dog breeds of all types. I've seen plenty of vicious black labs and Huskies working as an admin at a vet office. It's really sad.",
"They mean they are prob understating their aggression.",
"So... what I said, but longer?\n\nThe point I'm trying to make is that there is something inherently wrong with pits. There are documented cases of family pets raised in loving homes that go rogue.",
"I would’ve either shot or stabbed that dog 15x before his dumbass owner got to him. Fuck him and his little dog too",
">Never did we treat that dog poorly, never did we slap 'em for no reason. Never again.\n\nJust an FYI, this is an extremely low bar for obedience when it comes to a large dog breed. Simply saying \"well we didn't abuse him\" has no bearing on whether or not you helped reinforce good behaviors or whether you reinforced negative ones. Some dog breeds with great temperament will generally turn out fine without any training, but for most dogs, they need some form of obedience training or else bad things can happen. Dogs are not an animal you just leave on autopilot like a cat.",
"All the time around here. On pit bulls of all dogs.",
"Exactly. It's not that the pitbulls are morally bad. They were literally bred for hundreds or thousands of years to fight to the death for the entertainment of humans. Just because the majority of them aren't doing that today, doesn't mean that that instinct isn't still there.",
"It has nothing to do with the breed per se. It is that idiots buy \"dangerous dogs\", because they lack balls, so they compensate. Idiots with dogs make dangerous dogs. It is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.",
"Even thinking that you can compare different races to dog breeds is way off. Not even close to the same issue.",
"This is such outdated training logic and is not founded on any factual basis.",
"I too, have punted a dog in this scenario.",
"\"I think this one breed has wracked up enough dead people stats to justify its eradication.\" --- just \"enough\"? 70% of all fatal dog attacks.",
"My only issue with that is to get the dog in a proper choke you'd have it's head pretty close to your face. Still a better idea than just tugging on a dog like so many people do.",
"Surprise surprise it was a pitbull.",
"if your pitbull is off your property without a leash you're a shitbag owner.",
"Keeping bombs in your pocket isnt for everyone either.",
"No, no it is not clear they were slapping their dog before it became aggressive. Slapping was not even mentioned until the end.",
"I really strongly disagree with this. I rescued a puppy \\~4 months ago and things have been tough.\n\nHe has a huge backyard that he gets to play with us in, was in puppy training classes from \\~12 weeks old, and has my wife staying at home full time so he gets attention, training, and multiple walks daily. We work on the relaxation protocol, capturing calmness, and multiple other recommended training regimens. After group training at the local positive reinforcement training location failed, we got him private lessons there. When they couldn't really handle him either, we got a private R+ behavioralist who comes to our house and works with me, my wife, and the puppy weekly. In spite of all the work we put in, all the training, he is still extremely reactive. He is not aggressive, and has never bitten, but he barks like crazy and lunges at basically anything that moves. I am the first to tell people that he is reactive and have people keep their distance.\n\nAt first I viewed this as reflecting on me, and the job I'm doing as his owner, as you do. We are in a group text with all 9 of the puppies from his litter, and I hid our trouble out of shame and frustration that I was doing something wrong. One day, one of the other owners brought up that their dog was having severe reactivity issues. We ended up learning that 7 out of the 9 puppies in this litter show reactivity, and that the issue is likely genetic. I've come to realize that while horrible owners do exist, this attitude of shaming owners is really harmful. I hope that one day I'm able to take him out without dealing with all of this - but for now, the humiliation and embarrassment and judgement and looks I get from people as I genuinely do my best to give my puppy the best life I can is pretty heartbreaking.",
"Legitimate question - Do you know if stand your ground laws cover animal attacks like this?",
"You can never be perfect but if you are the owner of the dog you need to allow your dog more movement to evade this other dog. Holding it's leash and moving around like this you're one of the bigger difficulties it's having in this fight.",
"The training regimen has worked on every single dog my family & I have had; they couldn’t be happier pups. Full of love, they listen & know what they can or can’t do.\n\nThere’s my factual basis.",
"I fell victim to this. My old neighbor had this pit bull mix that was ALWAYS hostile towards everyone, but they usually kept him up or on a leash. One day my sons, who were probably 12 or so at the time, we doing yard maintenance when out of the corner of my eye I see this dog tear after one of my sons. Thankfully we had JUST gone over what to do, so he curled into a ball and the dog latched onto his ass pretty good. Bad enough it would have needed stitches if it wasn’t a dog bite. He now has a raised scar on his ass cheek the size of my fist. \n\nI wanted to press charges, but the mom talked me into not doing so. She SWORE the dog NEVER attacked anyone before. A week later I find out from the neighbor on the other side that her line was complete BS, and that the dog had attacked at least two other people, and she had convinced them to not call as well.\n\nEdit: typo",
"Large aggressive dogs and dog breeds need to be banned. Would support it in a heartbeat.",
"At some point, let the dogs leash go and it’s 2v1 against the attacking dog.",
"But they're good dogs! It's the owners fault! Mine would never do that. /S",
"My wife once had a wide birth...",
"Kick in the ribs would probably get faster results.",
"Its horrible how common it is, my dog has been attacked quite a few times. One of these dogs was a springer spaniel its cunt owners never have it on lead; it came at my dally out of a bush and tried to bite his head and neck but my boy doesn't take shit and fucked him up then our 72 year old dog walker punted it in the face didn't harm it but two days later it did the same to another dog we know and had its rib cage crushed and nearly died. I don't understand why people let their dogs get this way.",
"Bet it was a normal dog before that and suddenly snapped. It's not just 'the owners' it's in the genetics of pitbulls.",
"what the hell are you talking about dude? No one said anything about being mad or not being mad or whose fault it was.\n\nYou’re the one stating that the person holding the dog didn’t have the physical ability to do so...which is probably complete bullshit.",
"If they say leash reactive they likely know something about training. Most people don't give much of a shit about their dogs and will say whatever they can to just get out of the bad situation they are in.",
"literally LOLed and best part is you're probably serious",
"No I said if that was the case, that is still their negligence",
"Go tell your wife you compared black people to animals online, she'll think it's cool.",
"I don’t know that a chihuahua could kill a person if it had a bigger body. I don’t have chihuahuas, but I know different dog breeds have different temperaments. I’ve had Maltese and I’ve had Jack Russels and they just don’t have the same drive to fight. I have a Maltese who “talks a big game” but cannot back it up. If she sees that her barks are not working, she runs away and cries. My Jack Russel on the other hand WOULD fight any other male dog, it didn’t matter how big the other dog was.",
"Oh it's obvious, huh? Where exactly does it say that? I might need some help, considering my reading comprehension and all",
"I feel like 90% of them are fake dog vests. Just order one on amazon so you can take it into Denny's with you.",
"And I've owned large dogs for 35 years. \nAnd trained them. \nAnd have had mine attacked. \n\nThere are concrete reasons why people with actual experience advocate for dropping the leash. \n\nBecause sticking your hand, your face, or your body near two fighting dogs, which often bite indiscriminately, is how humans get hurt. \n\nAlso, because in a serious fight, especially with large dogs, leash control does not exist, which is something someone who has seen a real dog fight knows. \n\n---\n\nIf you're going to reply again, I encourage you to take a breath and put your ego and anger away, first. \n\nYou were rude to a cat owner who had a legitimate question, and then lost your temper when called on it. \n\nIf you can't handle the internet maturely, it's also okay to step away.",
"When your dog is being attacked LET GO OF THE LEASH.\n\nIt can neither defend itself (or you) or run away on a leash.",
"The facts I'm supporting is that statistics on pits are massively skewed in every direction. People who are Pro pit act like they are the perfect dog and that every person should own one while every anti pit person thinks they should be immediately put down across the world.\n\nI'm not here to debate anything I'm just tired of people going to extremely biased, nonscientific and nonpeer reviewed sources and spouting it like fact. There was some very comments on a post on r/statistics a couple of months ago breaking down stuff about Pitbull's made by people who are much smarter and versed than me. \n\nTL:DR of that thread is Pitbull's bite much less than other dogs but they are more fatal. But even those statistics are probably skewed because people don't gather DNA from most dog attacks to actually figure out the breed and instead anything that looks even slightly like a pit is just considered a pit.",
"Fair play, I thought you literally meant release leash from harness or collar rather than just dropping the leash. I probably should have said I never owned a dog myself but did l with one for four years and was the one to walk it most often. I just didn’t think that counted as ownership since it wasn’t my dog. I also should have said my wife’s family had a business of boarding dogs in PA for NYC folks for a number of years and are definitely knowledgeable on dogs.",
"Oh my good god that is the most precious face.",
"Was out playing a round of disc golf years ago and ended up having a guy with a HUGE off-leash pitbull play a few holes with us. On one of the last holes I sit down on the bench and the pitbull jumps up on the bench next to me, so we're eye level. I think nothing of it but the owner screams \"OH SHIT!\". I quickly stand up and ask what's, wrong. His response \"I thought he was going to attack you or something\". \n\nHow TF do you take a dog off leash around others if you think it's potentially dangerous and have no idea how it's going to react!? Still pisses me off every time I think about it.",
"A pitbull got loose in our neighborhood, jumped my chainlink fence, and proceeded to maul the life out of my 20 lb dachshund. I ran to the door and grabbed a steel bar used for securing the sliding glass door. I beat the dog so hard with that steel bar that I was sore the next day. Probably hit it for a solid 30 seconds to a minute. And it didn't make a bit of difference. The pit let go whenever HE wanted to. There's legitimately no good reason to own a pit bull. They're too powerful and their prey drive is too high. \n\n\nIf a person insists on owning one they should be required to either be licensed or have an insurance policy in the event that their dog bites someone or someone's dog.",
"sure, its a dangerous scary world. if ur a little weak person with a defenseless little animal maybe dont walk the streets. or like... carry a firearm or mace or something. or bring a friend. what if it was a mugger? same thing, theyre still a little weak person with no defense.",
"\"Oh he's never done that before.\"\n\nRight... so what the fuck are you going to do about it now that he has?",
"There's a lot of concern about pitbulls in this post but know that any dog can be aggressive and attack. My dog got mauled by a Black Lab 2 months ago who came through their \"invisible fence\" and just tonight a Golden Retriever behind a 4' fence was acting very aggressive as we walked past and knocked a section of fence down large enough to leave the yard. I think the only reason they didn't come out is because the owner was nearby and I was shouting No at it.",
"No sweat",
"Is there anything the owner of the leashed dog could have done differently in this situation to protect his dog and himself?",
">I'm surprised he didn't kick\n\nAbsolutely. Honestly depending on your size I wouldn't be shocked if you could crack ribs, let alone knocking the wind out of em.",
"They’re like 50 bucks with a certificate lol people use them all the time to get around dog restrictions",
">Kids should not have ... strong aggressive dogs",
"The SPCA was called, the neighbours were told they either had to erect a 6ft fence, or leave the property. They eventually left.\n\nMy partner was a the daughter of a breeder, so she did all the wound care herself. Pretty impressive, actually and there was no need for a vet visit.",
"> leave them alone it's between them\n \nWonder how he'd feel if you served him this line when the dog turned on his daughter",
"I feel like people won’t like this. But if an offleash dog attacks my on leash dog, my dog is immediately offleash. I’m not going to encourage the permanent maiming of my dog by preventing her ability to defend herself. Not only am I unfairly risking my dog, I am eroding her trust in me. She’ll be more aggressive in the future because she knows I won’t help protect her or allow her to protect herself.",
"I’d put 2 in that dog before it even got close",
"Where did he say he only slapped his dog after it killed his cat? It's pretty clear they were slapping their dog as a form of discipline long before that.",
"f*** that. you kick the dog as hard as you can or take your phone out and start hitting its head with the sharp edge.\n\nI draw a line, I don't care.",
"Yeah, they're gullible enough to believe \"it's not the breed, it's the owner\"",
"Don't you have something better to do? Jesus this is sad.",
"Maybe, maybe not. My situation the garage led right in to the kitchen which was rather narrow. I did manage to grab the pitbulls's hind legs as it passed me but it was already on the other dog so I had to abort and go to solution #1.",
"> But I’m not worried about the border collie being able to kill me.\n\nSee, the border collie's not going to come at you with its teeth. It's much smarter than that. It'll set up a trap and herd you right into it when you're not expecting it.\n\nI love border collies. I grew up with them as working farm dogs. But they're not good city dogs. They need room to run and something to herd or they'll tear your shit up.",
"Your best bet is probably to lift its hind legs off the ground. A lot of people think you can hold it by the scruff or collar like you see in the video, forgetting just how powerful some dogs are and how quickly they can turn around and really fuck up your arm.",
"Just a small one, ya know. He didn't mean to.",
"Uhh video content aside, this youtube channel is the creepiest channel in existence. The guy calls himself the dog butcher and his channel logo says \"it's okay to hate dogs.\" This is just an internet weirdo obsessed with hating animals, maybe we shouldn't give him more views...",
"It's literally in their post.\n\n\"Never did we slap 'em for no good reason\"\n\nSo they slapped their dog for \"good\" reasons?\n\nAgain, reading comprehension...",
"Even better!",
"This is exactly what happened to my dachshund when he was mauled by a pit. His tail bones were crushed and he had to have his tail completely amputated.",
"I meant when they’re downplaying the aggression or if they say something along the lines of “only aggressive towards certain people”",
"exactly. I'll take my phone and start bashing that dog's head in with the sharp edge of my phone.",
"In many countries, they are banned entirely as a breed.",
"Yeah, I wouldn’t be so kind if that was my animal being attacked. Of course the owners fault, always, but I would not hesitate to do whatever is necessary to remove an attacking animal from my path. Had a dog attack my cat in my yard when I was in my teens once. The people were walking the attacking dog off it’s leash, and seemed to have no verbal control of the animal and were literally halfway down the street from it when it wandered into my yard teeth bared. I was outside doing yard work, but had those people arrived only a few seconds later I would have already brought the shovel down on it’s head. Cat was fine, but those people never came down my street again.",
">Luckily even his daughter (and the dogs‘ injuries) backed me up.\n\nWas there a need to? Did he call the cops?",
"Honestly makes me just rage reading this.",
"it coulda happened to the strongest person in the family... they were jogging and the dog made a straight b line outta no where and pulled them off balance. if i was jogging and was mid stride and a yorkie on the end of my leash full speed pulled sideways i might mistep and trip and let loose the leash. accidents happen. that kid might be strong enough to handle the dog, but they were jogging and fell becuase the dog tripped em up.",
"I understand there are good pitbull owners and pitbulls, but I think they are a bad breed due to what they were breed for and how often they seem to be in the news.",
"Spotted the American.",
"why you worried about hurting the dog? I would be trying really hard to hurt the dog, or at least gain control of it the best I could (grabbing collar, latching onto its back and trying to choke it out and wrap my legs around its hind legs to subdue its movement) to stop it from hurting my dog.",
"The pitbull was just trying to protect the other dog. They're called nanny dogs. Not a bad breed, just bad owners. Chihuahua's attack all the time, plus other bullshit pit owners always say.",
"No, the pitbull owners are objectively worse because their carelessness might very well kill an innocent life. Smaller dogs with careless owners are mostly an annoyance, some stitches at worst.",
"The premier (governor) of Ontario personally intervened to return a seized Pitbull to its owner. A few days after that same Pitbull bit a 13 year old kid on the face.",
"dogs are not people, you need to make physical contact to correct them properly.",
"Anecdotal basis.",
"How exactly do you work with dogs? Your advice is terrible. \n\nYou don't support open communication between dog owners? So if a dog owner communicates their dog's behavior they are a moron and lying because it is a reflection on them? Also.... ignore service dog vests? WTF kind of advice is this...",
"If we're going to stop breeding pitbulls we should also stop breeding English bulldogs, French bulldogs, and pugs. This isn't a counter argument, I really think we should stop being those types of dogs.",
"Use critical thinking. Why would someone point out they never slapped their dog without a good reason as a way of explaining why their dog's behavior was unexpected, if they never slapped their dog until after it became aggressive? That makes no sense.",
"My dog is everything to me. I would me on my knees in about 5 seconds with both of my hands on the other dogs throat.",
"> but they're actually really sweet and good with kids\n\nI hate this line. There are so few breeds that do not fit this criteria that it's completely unremarkable. It's like saying, \"it's actually a really great breed - it breaths at a normal volume\".",
"I think they are a terrible breed and should be banned.",
"Oh I Thought about it several times especially because my dog ran from their house, six blocks over to ours. I didn’t even know that he knew where he lived let alone was able to run off adrenaline despite his entire back half being wide open. The other dogs mom was like “it’s just a bite, do you have a towel? Peroxide” I cut my eyes so fast at her wouldn’t thought I slapped her. She was like oh ok I’m going to get the car. I said you do that and I’ll call the police because this will be documented. Fym. If he would’ve died I swear I would’ve went full Beatrix kiddo on everyone.",
"Funny enough my neighbor says that his dog isn't friendly but that fool let's his dogs out without a leash all the time. His dog came charging at my 4yr old son. I was able to scare the shit out of the dog and i was able to pick up my son. But if it was just my kids outside by themselves I wouldn't know what would have happened",
"Honest question, in a situation like this if you were to kill the attacking dog could there be any legal repercussions?",
"Literally completely different dog breeds. Like border collie vs Australian shepherd sort of differences.",
"Occam’s razor. Try not thinking so hard about everything. He wasn’t using that to explain why their dog’s behavior was unexpected. Otherwise it would’ve just been expected. Your logic doesn’t make sense.\n\nBiting people and eating pets is a pretty damn good reason for slapping a dog if you’re not going to put it down.",
"Very sorry you had to deal with that and I hope your dog is ok. I understand the anger. It's hard to deny the statistics in regards to dog attacks. I've met so many amazing pitbulls as well. A friend of mines pitbull is probably the sweetest dog I've ever met in my life. \n\nIt's a tough subject and I'm no expert. My 2 cents are that any dog can be good or bad based on how they were trained/raised but pitbulls if not trained/raised properly can be extremely dangerous because they are extremely powerful dogs.",
"\\*Eyeroll\\*",
"It’s a bit frustrating because dogs have their own minds, owners can’t control all behaviors from a dog. I mean, when you see agility competitions for dogs, and the dog breeds that perform best tend to be herding dogs, that tells you that no matter the owner, breeds just have different personalities. Pitbulls were bred to fight, I suppose some of that is still in their genes.",
"Is it true that pit bulls are in fact more aggressive than other dogs? or people just like to hear the same superstitions that their parents liked to hear. I feel like all big dogs can be aggressive, and the majority of pits I run into are honestly the nicest dogs I've met. so idk what to believe.",
"Yeah this isn't true at all. Pits may be more aggressive than a lot of other dog breeds but there are PLENTY of non-pits that are super aggressive. You're spreading misinformation that could get people hurt.\n\nJust from my personal experience, I've had 4 dogs attack me in my lifetime. 2 were shepherd mixes, 1 was a pit, 1 was a rottweiler. The one that attacked me from the furthest away was one of the shepherd mixes.",
"That dog was long gone by the time I got myself together and all my equipment packed up. I did however call the city and gave them a description of it and let them know that it had attacked me.",
"Unpopular with some for sure, but I agree.",
"Actually pitbull bites are no different than any other breed. Yes, they can often be strong but so can many other breeds. They are anatomically the same as any other dog, link below.\n\nIn the event of a bite, you never want to pull away as it creates tearing. You actually want to push into the bite aggressively and then pull forward. Pushing forward opens the jaw, then rapidly pulling back can pull free. Bad situation and agreed you have to do what you have to do, but there is nothing especially different about a pit bull from any other breed. With all that said, I’d probably do the same thing and smoke the shit out of a dog if attacked. We always carry pepper spray and a taser when walking our dogs for this exact reason to clear an approaching dog away. \n\nhttps://animalfarmfoundation.org/2015/09/01/myth-busted-pit-bulls-dont-bite-differently/",
"My parents always taught me to drop the leash immediately so my dog can fight back properly and I can stop the attacking dog. Wish more people knew to do that, but it's hard to think straight when you're panicking.",
"Why not just get a dog that's not a dead toddler waiting to happen?",
"Fuck those fucking people. Irresponsible pet owners who don’t neuter their pets and then on top of that breed them and sell their offspring are some of the shittiest people on this earth.",
"Do you remember what breed the dog was?",
"you can't remove the breed from the equation.",
"That is why I do not walk my dog without weapons. \n\n*taser\n\n*expandable baton\n\n*pepper spray\n\nDon't learn the hard way. Your dog is vulnerable to attack whenever you go out. I have the scar to show for it. Be prepared to kill a dog. It's not a joke.",
"you can't remove the breed from the equation - sorry.",
"yes thank you, grow a pair and fight with your best friend!!",
"Terrible situation all around. Nobody wanted that dog there. We should have made him leave but it was a long drive and weren't expecting other dogs to show up.",
"How would one go about training innate aggression out of a dog?",
"yea i was just tacking on",
"yo, the dog can't reason. that's its language. you had a compelling argument.",
"My neighbor said the trick is to lift the hind legs of the pitbull and they will release their grip. She said it saved the life of a puppy that was getting attacked. Not sure how true or effective, but might be worth a shot.",
"yes, protect your family like a boss",
"Extremely loyal and smart. They keep an exclusive club, and you ain't in it.",
"I have a very vivid memory from childhood of a kid being dragged through gravel by his black lab",
"I felt this. In the exact same situation….feels better to know that at least someone else understands. I feel like any time I’ve tried to put exactly this statement into words people just don’t understand. But I guess I can understand that. Our first dog was/is an absolute saint, very low maintenance, “perfect” dog. Admittedly, I used to look down on people with reactive/disobedient pets. Our second dog is a handful and just requires special attention around the clock. Hard to relate unless you actually live with the pet 24/7.\n\nWith that said, there certainly are shit pet owners who shouldn’t even have pets in the first place.\n\nEdit: after reading additional comments, I want to note that both of these dogs are pits. I can understand the emotional response of thinking pits are generally aggressive/misbehaved dogs….but in my personal experience this is completely false. I have always had and will always have pits—one of the most loyal and affectionate breeds around. I think pits are the most commonly neglected and abused breed resulting in them acting out aggressively in isolated incidents more often than any other breed. This will obviously skew statistics on dog attacks as poodles and chihuahuas aren’t usually neglected in abandoned buildings and junkyards.\n\nI have been violently attacked by a stray pit while walking my leashed dog before. It was extremely traumatic and both dogs were severely injured, however, this did not change my opinion on pits whatsoever. It probably solidified my stance. 1.) the loyalty and ability of my dog to protect me is probably the only reason I was not harmed. 2.) this was a stray pit that likely escaped being chained in someone’s backyard for who knows how long. \n\nShoutout to all my pit parents that love on their dogs and treat them the same they would any other breed. Spilling shit out of your mouth because you saw a dog attack video online isn’t doing anyone good at all, and the majority of the rhetoric around pits as a breed is completely untrue.",
"The video looks like this kid was chasing the pitbull before it attacked. I’d imagine it got loose and they were trying to chase it down. Can see them running after it in the top left of the frame.",
"Where was it clear that they were slapping their dog prior to its aggressive behavior in the form of killing their other cats or attacking them personally?\n\n>We treat it, we care for it... \n> \n>\\*two years of docile behavior before the bad behavior and killing/attacking starts\\* \n> \n>Never did we treat that dog poorly, never did we slap'em for no reason\n\nI don't know about you, but if a pet was well behaved for two years and docile there would be no reason to slap or scold them. However, once the killings and attacks started and you weren't allowed to get rid of it due to the Mother still wanting it, slapping as discipline seems most likely to occur when those aggressive behaviors rolled around",
"THATS WHAT IM SAYIN! Let your dog square up and then be his/her best friend and back em up!",
"you let your dog fight back while you fuck the other dog up with your pup",
"They can be lovely dogs (no joke) but the breed should be extinct. They're not worth the risk. I feel like more people should understand *why* they're called pit bulls.",
"Okay Karen.",
"I think you're on the right track, yeah. It is correct to say \"it's not the dog's fault they are aggressive\" because generally speaking, dogs are incapable of making moral decisions on that level. Their aggressive behavior and the inherent danger associated with a given breed is absolutely the result of human intervention, whether it's the way they are raised or the way they have been bred. But that means it is also correct to say that they have to be held to a different standard because they are incapable of moral decisions, and that standard has been influenced by the poor decisions humans have made as the stewards of their breed and of canines in general.\n\nCourse-correcting abusive breeding practices so that aggressive breeds can be treated more \"fairly\" may be possible with many, many generations worth of effort, but we aren't there yet. It is almost like how an invasive species isn't technically doing anything \"wrong\", because they are incapable of that level of agency; they just don't belong there.",
">A 156 pound pit bull with a shock collar on ran out of his house and\n\nFirst, I'm so sorry this horrible thing happened to you and poor Morkie. :-(\n\nYour story sounds like an example of how dogs who *aren't* pit bulls also attack. Pit bulls generally range up to about 70 pounds. Even if there is some sense in which the term applies to your 156 pound assailant, then that would be an *extremely* selectively bred animal, not reflective of breed characteristics.\n\nIf we're gonna use the phrase \"pit bull\" generally to mean \"dog who attacks\", then it just becomes unsurprising when statistics say most dog attacks are by pit bulls. \\[EDIT: perhaps that IS true anyway, not saying it can't be, but it would be easier to *know* it's true if we cared about describing dogs accurately, which it appears in this thread as though we are hostile to doing.\\]",
"But...aren't they popular with shitbags because...the shitbags want that hyperagressive dog?",
"Pitbulls and idiotic owners. Name a more iconic duo.",
"you have no muscel fatass",
"I'm glad you've never seen a dog attack and hope you never do.",
"spotted the sensible American - FTFY",
"> I didn't feel good about doing it\n\nImagine your dog was your child. Problem solved.",
">Over 90% of all dog attacks are done by pitbulls alone\n\nYeah that's just not true at all. I agree that pits are probably more dangerous than most other breeds but that statistic came completely out of your ass.",
"For an example of a good reason, see the post you responded to above. For a person who puts such a high premium on reading comprehension, you don't seem to be doing too well on that front yourself",
">I’m willing to be charitable to the negligent owner since I don’t know the situation: maybe he recently picked up the pitbull at the animal shelter\n\nShouldn't have got a dog too big to control",
"Do the wheelbarrow. Especially if there is somebody else. Grab the dogs hind legs and lift up like a wheelbarrow. It immediately stops the attack from progressing and the attacker loses its base of strength. If you gently pull backwards while you do this, as the dog regrips, you pull it off. The reason this technique is best is because you also prevent yourself from being attacked",
"que bonito perrito",
"Don't feel bad. You did the right thing by defending yourself. Honestly, a dog like that needs to be killed. Imagine them doing that to someone who can't defend themselves.",
"Reading this thread I was kinda just pondering what I would do (this is a very you know... everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth thing) but I think I would try to fuck up it's throat by punching it there probably? It might be hard but the eyes is not a bad idea for sure.",
"People here are rightly questioning the merits of owning pit bulls but from my personal experience and stories I've read, german shepherds aren't far behind in aggression. Anyone with a large breed needs to put some serious time and energy into training them - you can't assume just because it's not a pit that it'll never snap.",
"I'll upvote you into oblivion because I agree.",
"You’re correct. But foolish if you think those people aren’t making them more aggressive.",
"Yeah, you're right that shitbag-ness would be a very difficult thing to objectively measure. You'd probably need to asses rates of dog attack across multiple variables, including dog breed, owner socio-economic status, whether the dog or owner has previously been the subject of a complaint to the Humane Society, whether the dog has ever been enrolled in a dog training school, whether the owner has had a previous dog that has ever attacked a person or another animal, etc. Then you can look at which of those variable have the greatest effect on rates of attacks, and whether they correlate with rates of attack independent of the other variables.\n\nAs for the why of it, that usually comes down to either points 1 or 2 in my previous comment - either wanting to reduce the rate of dog attacks in general, or wanting to protect yourself.",
"It was a pitbull mix, but I don't think it matters that much.. any poor dog in that situation would be seriously unstable.",
"Feel free to live in the neighbourhood with the guy with a dog AND a gun AND an itchy trigger finger if someone runs towards him.\n\nI won't.",
"Not every dog owner is a killer, but the kind of dog owner who wants a dog that they intend to train to kill will buy a dog that society considers scary. Correlation =/= causation. It’s not the pit bulls it’s the owners who intend to train an attack dog, and they buy pit buys exactly because you’re scared of them.",
"Next time it happens, throw a blanket, sheet, your jackets, jumper, whatever, over the attacking dogs head. They'll let go of what it has in their mouth.",
"Anyone who walks their dog without a leash is an asshole in my opinion. I don’t care what you think or who you think your dog is. You’re an asshole to the community around you.",
"They're referring to the fact that you're looking for discussion about a topic in an echo-chamber. You'll just get radicalized.",
"No idea mate. I don't live in the US. I'm an international observer of gun ownership laws and see cases like this as a strong argument for responsible citizens to have the right to defend themselves with a firearm. \n\n\nThat dog that was attacked, besides being a family pet, could have been a breeding asset or farm working dog worth thousands of dollars.",
"You do you. I notice you think he has an itchy trigger finger. Why is that?",
"Had to shove my fist into an attacking dogs mouth to save my dog. Owner didn’t even apologize or even act concerned. I then wanted to shove my fist through his face to teach him respect. People like that do not deserve to own dogs",
"> This dog appears to be an American bully, not a pitbull.\n\nAhh, totally different then... oh wait...\n\n> The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) was the foundation (parent breed) used to create the American Bully.",
"If people assume \"my dog isn't a pit so it can't snap and attack someone\", that leads to people getting hurt. All dogs can do this and if you have a large dog that can cause damage, it's your duty to train your dog and keep strict control of it in public. Just because it's not a pit that doesn't mean it can't hurt people.",
"\"They're just misunderstood\"\n\nMy brother has a pitbull and hearing his wife talk about how peaceful and playful their pit is, while he has attacked several other family members' dogs... Okay...",
"Not exactly my neighborhood demographic, but sure.",
"When walking your dog… wear cleats. Or… one of those cool cowboy boots with a retractable blade. No reason…",
"Hello?! They are bred to attack other dogs. The owner, obviously, is a dumbass, but pit bullls are not a pet in the traditional sense. They are bred to attack. Fuck pit bulls and their dumb-ass owners.",
"You’re a loser - sorry",
"Did you watch the video? The owner was taking the dog for a run, on a leash.",
"how do you know that kid isnt strong enough to handle to dog? they were jogging and got pulled off balance by the dogs random b-line. the strongest member of the family coulda tripped and dropped the leash on their own shoe lace.",
"With most pits and pit mixes you're not likely to have much tail to work with.",
"I'm sure they can be wonderful, the standoffishness always makes me nervous.",
"I get what you’re saying but this is beyond syntax or illogical fallacy. I know for a fact he was 156 because his owners and I discussed why along with the homeowners association after the fact why I dog of his size was even allowed in the neighbourhood to begin with. Not to violate his rights as a property owner, but they had breed restrictions and yet he was allowed. So I get what you’re saying, but understand exactly what I stated.",
"Girlfriend's dad's dog was sitting I'm his truck and two pit bulls jumped into his truck from the outside and absolutely ripped his dog to shreds...\n\nPit bulls are hardly dogs",
"I had a similar problem with my shelter dog. One of the best dogs ever (husky), and it never hurt a soul and we had a few smaller dogs. One day it saw the neighbors dog and just snapped and attacked my neighbors dog and bit my neighbor. Not sure was caused it, but animal control came and had to quarantine the dog for 15 days. I ultimately decided to put him down.",
"a gymnast. a tiny girl probably 90 pounds max. this is a major reason why pitbulls are so deadly, their victims are disproportionately toddlers and little old ladies.",
"I was about to say this too since I didn't see any other comments mentioning it. Lots of videos showing dogs being injured and maybe killed? At least one showing a dog that was cooked.\nOther very long videos just hating and demonizing dogs. Bizarre.",
"Good on you man. I will add a point and just say be extra cautious. If you get involved with this dog fight, be prepared to have the aggression shift to you, and it's sometimes best to avoid that risk. \nA pitball mix attacked my boxer and I did the same thing, dropped the lead and attention on my dog and focused on getting the pit off. The pit latched onto my wrist as I was trying to grab it. Lucky it seemed to come to its senses after a bit once it realize it had a human in its mouth, but I needed stitches and a shot. If the dog didn't care who it hurt, then I would be in a bad way. \nSo just be careful. I know its a crappy situation, but I honestly think the man in the video handled it well. His dog is big and strong. The man looks a little older, and if the pit went after him with all its might I would worry about his health. \nFor the curious, the pit in my situation was eventually put down wasn't just me, the dog was reported several times.",
"Don't punch the other dog, grab its collar and twist just enough till it lets go. It's much faster and you can control the damage to the animal. If it doesn't have a collar use a belt, if you don't have a belt, start wearing one or use your dogs leash.",
"Lol if a dog attacks me or my dog the owner is going to cop it",
"Well, it is true that it is the owner's fault. Know your animal and treat them accordingly.",
"Break it's legs",
"So trick with breaking up dogs attacking/fighting is to grab their rear legs and wheelbarrow them away, this puts them off balance,makes it so they can't lunge forward, and essentially gives you control.",
"Wow, we lost our Yorkie (natural causes) earlier this year and this hit me like a truck :(\n\nGlad your Morkie is recovering ♥",
"Just last year a neighbors pit bull got off the leash and came at my 10 pound dog from across the street. I have never kicked anything harder in my entire life, right in the head, and it still kept coming. I kicked it at least 20 times in the head and chest as hard as I could and it would just run a short distance away and come right back. Finally the inept owner was able to hold it down to the ground and I got my phone out to call the police with my free hand. I love animals but did not hesitate to do everything in my power to discourage the dog from killing mine. Since then I carry dog mace.",
"I remember one ran up and attacked my dog when I was a kid, my dad put a claw hammer through its skull, died instantly, got no time to fuck around with aggressive pitbulls.",
"Does it actually say that anywhere?",
">Pits were named \"Capone\" and \"Felony\". \n\nHoly fuck, that's trashy.",
"True. I was always of the mindset that “pit bulls are not bad” until I met a beautiful sweet girl that my friends girlfriend has. She’s so sweet…until she sees another dog. She changes into a full devil and and tried attack my dogs.",
"There's no law against it for the most part. I agree that it's a shitty thing to do, but there isn't much stopping people from doing it.",
"Have had this happen numerous times to me walking my dogs..only once did the dog that came running at us mean serious business, luckily i have a cane corso and a doberman. So they can handle there own, but they are friendly and it took multiple bites b4 they realized it was go time, in the future i will never again hezitate to smash the living fuck out of an out of control dogs face. Initially i thought my dogs would kill this dog but like i said, being that there friendly dogs 1 got hurt b4 they decided to protect themselves.",
"He is so adorable",
"There are tons of negligent owners of all breeds...just so happens that pit bulls are extremely vicious",
"That dog isn't trained to deal with other dogs or hasn't had any socialisation with them. If a dog is barking when it sees other dogs it's because it's afraid of them.",
"The same way you train and reinforce any other behaviors. From a young age, your dog should be socialized with humans outside from outside of the home as well as other animals. Your dog should be rewarded for polite behavior like friendly greetings and scolded for negative behaviors like aggression or jumping on people. Your dog should be trained, at a minimum, to obey \"Stop\" and \"Come here\" commands with a reasonably high success rate. If you do all of those things, 90% of the time you're gonna have a happy, safe dog.\n\nSome breeds have naturally good temperaments that make them easier, some breeds have aggression or obedience issues that make it more difficult. Dogs like pit bulls, rottweilers, german shepherds, akitas, and huskies take significantly more work and therefore should only be owned by people willing to put in the effort.",
"True, but an unstable pit mix is going to do way more damage than an unstable Pomeranian. Just means it's that much more important that pits are properly trained and cared for.",
"VELVET HIPPOS! DERP!",
"Going for the eyes is tough because they might bite your hands. Go around the side while they attack your dog and kick them in the mid section. Aim for the soft part of the belly. Do not stop untill it runs off or the owner gets control of them.",
"My wife is a certified dog behaviorist and vet nurse, and she *despises* this dude. The methods he uses are absolute garbage and antiquated. The dude is popular, not talented or effective or worth emulating.",
"\" Shouldn't have, should have\" - if people always made the right decision, the world wouldn't have so many problems. I think the great majority of people who get pitbulls shouldn't get them: they just want a mean dog to make themselves look tough, they don't care about the wellbeing of that dog. At least that dog owner walks his dog instead of keeping it tied up in a yard, maybe now they've learned to have a better grip on their dog's leash.",
"Had a pit get out of a fence and attack my 15 year old golden retriever on a walk a few years ago, luckily I had a husky with me too, she bit him on the nose and split it wide open. I know a lot of people have good ones but they are just too unpredicable.",
"Some good training on how to fight a dog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiA7WEmBaFo",
">Ok but pitbulls are objectively dangerous\n\nNo, [there is no evidence to back that claim up.](https://notabully.org/how-strong-is-a-pitbulls-bite/)\n\n>Chihuahuas don't have jaw strength and bite force stronger than wolves.\n\nNo dog does, so if that's the bar for danger, then we're all good. \n\nI am a huge advocate for pet licensing, for a myriad of reasons, but breed specific legislation is just asinine fear mongering, and it's been shown time and again that it doesn't work to reduce dog-related injuries. The issue is not the dogs, it's the owners. \n\nFurthermore, I would bet you couldn't even identify what a pitbull is (Which is fine, because almost no one can at this point. The term has devolved into \"scary dog.\") I strongly encourage you to do actual research on this, instead of just pearl-clutching.",
"doesn't matter how they're trained. their physical characteristics make it so they should not be allowed to be bred.",
">He wasn’t using that to explain why their dog’s behavior was unexpected. Otherwise it would’ve just been expected\n\nYou're talking about occam's razor but never considered that he's just an idiot that thought slapping a dog occasionally was ok?\n\nMy interpretation is pretty basic and not far-fetched in the slightest. A normal person would just say 'we never slapped him' if that were the case, no qualification necessary.\n\nIf a kid turns into a serial killer and the parents say \"we never hit him without a good reason\" I'm not sure how you would conclude they didn't hit the kid until he killed someone. That's a pretty ridiculous interpretation.",
"If this happened I am sorry but I would have absolutely fucked that dog up. No way in hell some random dog is attacking my dog. This is largely the owners fault for being a shit head, but still, gotta defend your dog. His poor lab got some good bites on him/his tail, fucked up.",
"Not all dogs are friendly to other people or other dogs and that's OK as long as the proper precautions are taken.",
"It's a question of probability rather than absolutes. Risk management is all about the big picture rather than a single incident.",
"If another dog was doing this to mine I would be hitting it as hard as I could without a care in the world if I killed it in front of its owner. Hopefully it would get the hint before that happens but I’m not going to let another dog maim or kill my dog without evening the odds.",
"I think he never got a good angle, since his own dog was not small enough to pick up.",
"If this ever happens to me im letting my leash go. Im not going to restrain my dog from defending itself. Then I'm grabbing their dog and physically defending mine with kicks.",
"I did, and it looked like they were chasing an out-of-control dog, rather than running with a dog. Didn't notice any leash when I first watched it (would've expected the owner to grab for the leash if one existed, rather than grabbing the dog's collar, which is weird) but spotted one dangling on the ground at the very end of the video on second viewing. Not sure that changes anything though. They shouldn't be walking a dog that they can't keep in control, and an ineffective leash or ineffective leash operation is not particularly different to walking a dog off-leash.",
"Seeing as your link is to a pitbull advocacy group with an agenda they do not hide, consider me skeptical.\n\nThe American Animal Hospital Association says \"Pit bulls were responsible for the highest percentage of reported bites across all the studies (22.5%), followed by mixed breeds (21.2%), and German shepherds (17.8%). Mixed-breed dogs and pit bulls were found to have the highest relative risk of biting, as well as the highest average damage per bite.\" [source](https://www.aaha.org/publications/newstat/articles/2019-06/new-study-identifies-most-damaging-dog-bites-by-breed/)\n\nA four year study of attacks on children showed \"Pit bulls caused 42% of dog bites for which children were hospitalized, a 4-year retrospective study showed. Bites by pit bulls had a 40% greater odds of a full trauma team response, and were linked to a 3-day longer mean hospital stay, compared with bites by other dogs.\" [soure](https://www.mdedge.com/pediatrics/article/87965/pediatrics/pit-bull-bites-are-worse-several-measures)\n\n*Three other studies* separately concluded that \" \"attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs.\" [source](https://www.livescience.com/27145-are-pit-bulls-dangerous.html)\n\nSo I dunno. I hear what the explicitly pro-pit, pitbull advocacy organization is saying, their anatomy argument looks decent, but it took me about 11 seconds to drum up five different legitimate studies that say pitbull attacks *are* more dangerous, none from sources that can be labeled as explicitly anti-pitbull.\n\nWho to believe?",
"> Black people, last I checked, were not.\n\nActually during the slave trade, we were. Not 100s of years. But it wasn't like a random thing either. You bred your biggest/strongest slaves in hopes to get to strong off spring.",
"Please tell me, what does a moderator do?\n\nAnd explain why I can’t post anti-empire memes in the subreddit r/empiredidnothingwrong",
"Dog owners who walk without leashes are fucking idiots. I’m talking to you, idiot.",
"Literally everyone I know in Portland Carries every day",
"At some point you have to realize that pit bulls are the Mike Tyson in his prime of the dog world.\n\nThey are not all bad of course. They are not evil. They are just the way god made them. But when they handler that was absent or crappy they bite your fucking ear off and knock you into the next zip code. \n\nThat attitude and strength does not exists in a shitzu.\n\nThe sooner that we all agree that the variables necessitate attention the better.",
"Yes, this is exactly the problem where I live.\n\nThe shelters are full of pitt mixes, and we have a strong culture of adopting dogs here. People have good intentions and rescuing is great, but for many it's their first dog (at least in the city and not their suburban family's backyard golden) and they're starting off with 60lbs of muscle that very well may have behavioral issues from growing up on the street.\n\nThis is what happened to my wife and I last time we took our dogs to the dog park (the last time we'll ever take them to a dog park around here). As soon as we entered the gates, a pitt charged our dogs without provocation. My wife scooped up the dog he went after, but the pitt leapt and left a nasty scratch down her neck and shoulder. We started calling for the owner, who ended up being a 20-something chick sitting on a picnic table drinking a beer with her friends. When we finally got her attention, she tried calling to the dog, which was still jumping at us in threatening ways, but the dog wouldn't respond -- *because she'd only just gotten it that week and it still didn't know its name.* So this idiot took her bodybuilder-looking dog to an off-leash dog park within a week of adopting it.\n\nAdopting is noble and all, but a dog is not an accessory -- it's a big responsibility and that responsibility increases the stronger your dog is.",
"100% of responsible pet owners already support licensing. \n\n>or a dog bred to have a large bite force\n\n[Bite force is not a bred trait.](https://notabully.org/how-strong-is-a-pitbulls-bite/) It has much more to do with the size of the dog. A large lab could bite with more force than a medium bully breed.",
"What exactly are we looking at in the first image? I can't figure out where that injury is or what it is? I'm glad he's okay.",
"After having TWO separate incidents of aggressive and unleashed \"pitbulls\" rushing my toddler and my leashed dog on city trails here, as the owner runs up shouting, \"He's friendly!\", while their dog is demonstrating everything NOT friendly, as I'm hurriedly chucking my toddler and myself over a fence while my large dog bravely stands it's ground for us. \n\nI now carry bear spray and a quick opening knife for the next time, just in case. 😑",
"The whole point of small claims court is that it doesn’t cost anything you just show up by yourself and make yourself case",
"Like I said, there's a club, and you ain't in it. They are standoffish, it's just what they are. If you aren't seeing that dog on good terms regularly, don't expect a cuddle.",
"ok but most humans dont think like ed norton in fight club. kids probably walked the dog dozens of times and held it back when its pulled before. they got tripped up.",
"How big's your fuse? Just for reference.",
"It's not one or the other, it's both. It's the breed AND it's idiot owners. \n\nSomething like 60% of all people who were mauled to death by dogs in the US were killed by Pit bulls. The next highest is Rottweiler at 10% or so.\n\nNo dog kills as often as a Pit, and it's not even close.",
"This is my boyfriend parents. They refuse to admit they shouldn't have adopted an adult pit mix and also don't understand why we don't plan on bringing our puppy over.\n\nEdit: spelling",
"I don’t dispute anything at all that you are saying. I also don’t dispute any of the data you shared as it is true. Unfortunately pitbull are bred and raised to be aggressive. It is nurture not nature. They can be very sweet. And fair call on the advocacy group, it was just the first link I found.\n\nWith that said, the only point I was intending to make was that anatomically they are not different from other dogs. There’s lots of old rumors around their jaws being able to lock, hinged differently, etc. \n\nThe only point was their bite and jaws are not anatomically different. Everything else you stated is also completely correct. It is sad how much a breed can be abused and raised in that way. \n\nThanks for sharing!\n\nEdit: adding additional link and comment. SPCA.\n\n“What Pit Bulls do have is a very strong bite, roughly equivalent to a German Shepard’s, and strong jaw muscles. The sad reality is that because of their muscular aesthetic and strong bite many people have bred, trained, and mistreated this breed to be used as fighting dogs. However, the world has been cracking down harder on these inhumane activities and most of the Pit Bulls that we see today have been bred for their companionship and friendly disposition.”\n\nhttps://phs-spca.org/myth-of-lockjaw/",
"Thx 🙏",
"I make the excuse that my dog might pee on your dog, if he's in the line of fire, because he watched an r Kelly video.",
"> Dogs were captured and owners issued a $200 fine for each dog. \n\nDid they get the dogs back? If so, then the fine is pretty worthless, as the owners still have something that has already proven dangerous to the community. Dogs that attack like this should be kenneled for good. No three strikes, because one they do it, that's it. They *will* attack again.",
"because he was panicking",
"I was once walking to my car in Santa Monica and noticed a lady and a 6 year old. The 6 year old was grabbing on to the leash of a pretty big pitbull. She could not control him at all and was dragging her, the mom didn't do anything . Then the dog saw another dog and began to try and walk toward it . It took the mom and the girl combined strength to just hold it in place .",
"Dogs don't attack for \"no reason\" they have reasons, why might not always understand them, but there is always a reason.",
"Yeah, I thought about that later that night. If it hadn't been me it could have been anyone else in the cemetery at that time. A mother and child there visiting a loved one or something. I have no idea where that dog went after I kicked it but I did notify the city in which I told them about the attack and gave them a description.",
"Oh my gosh you just compared black people to dogs. You're racist af",
"It's the centre of the woke zombie apocalypse. I don't blame them.",
"just remember to helicopter that shit around when it releases so it doesn't latch onto you.",
"\"My Dog is never like this!\"\n\n\"It's never bitten a kid before, ever!\"\n\n\"It's ok, it won't hurt you\"\n\n\"It just barks, don't worry!\"\n\n\"Oh wow. It never growls at anyone!\"\n\n\"Oh, if it nips you, don't worry!\"",
"How can you keep having a dog that already killed your cat. And then another one. You kept that dog until it attacked you? So It was okey for you to this dog going for a cat massacre?",
"Black people weren't bred to be violent. Pitbulls were. They are literally bred to maul and kill other animals. Your comparison is both racist and a false equivalency",
"Thank's Man",
"...A corgi/sheltie killed a 7 year old?",
"Thanks for the additional link! The SPCA is certainly a credible organization, in my eyes, and I do agree with you that we shouldn't lean on anatomical myths in these discussions. They're not helpful in the slightest.\n\nCheers!",
"If some dog attacked my dog off leash, regardless of breed, I'd do everything I could to fucking kill it no questions asked.",
"Exactly why I carry when taking the dogs and kids on walks.",
"So your entire counter-argument boils down to: housing insurers are the ultimate authority on dog behavior. Huh. \n\nWay to ignore every argument I made and play the “nuh-uh, you’re the racist!” card, though. \n\nWhat an ignorant, angry little person you come off as in these comments. Yikes. Hope you and your buddies in your little hate sub grow up.",
"People who have never bred or raised dogs who say \"there are no bad dogs, there are only bad owners\" have no clue what they're talking about. Disposition and temperament are all in the breed standard. When you have a breed that existed for a century for dog fighting and being aggressive that's going to come in the package. Rolling the dice that you get a good one...",
"I don't think all pits or pit mixes should be put down, but full pits should 100% be banned from being bred. Let the breed die out.",
"muscel?",
"Huh?",
"that person was unqualified for that dog- his hesitation to get his own dog during the fight makes me hope he was a babysitter and not compensating by owning a dog he was scared of",
"It can happen with any dog regardless of breed. There's not bad breeds, it's bad owners, End of story. People need to train their dogs and be able to control them, regardless of the dog's size and breed.",
"It had a leash.",
"Yes",
"I think your interpretation is far less reasonable than mine. You're being overly charitable because it suits your beliefs.",
"If you're just gonna chain it up 24/7, why even have a dog at that point?",
"No, it doesn't.",
">: they just want a mean dog to make themselves look tough\n\nCould've gotten a German Shepard and gotten the same result without the intent to menace. Great dogs if they know you, but not a huge fan of strangers.",
"My neighbor's dog ran up and attacked our dog. It happens quick, by the time we really noticed and were jumping to start getting it off he was there calmly 'trying to help'. \n\nWhen we mentioned he shouldn't have his dog off leash if it doesn't listen he just said \"I can't do anything about that\". \n\nI feel so cringey looking back at it, but I patted my hip (where I carry) and said \"next time I will\". \n\nI'm not joking though. Moved out to the country specifically to have a huge yard for our well trained dogs too be off leash and run around. They are super well behaved and stay nearby, running back if you even make the slightest noise.\n\nI was super proud of one of my dogs though. She's the one we all say shows the only inkling of aggression (barking like crazy at delivery drivers). She ran up to the dog fight and didn't join in. \n\nOnce we saw she noticed it we were half expecting her to go crazy but thankfully she was more confused because she's even played with his dog before.",
"Whatrutalkbout",
"There's a lot of overlap between people that have pitbulls and people that should probably not have pitbulls.",
"I've volunteered for a rescue for 15 years. Rule #1 - never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever let your dog off leash while walking them outside a fenced area.\n\nI don't care how long your dog has been well behaved. I don't care if they've never attacked a person or dog before. I don't care how much time you've spent training them.\n\nNO DOGS OFF LEASH EVER.\n\nI've witnessed so many bites, attacks, runaways etc. over the years. They're not anecdotes. They're not outliers. They are very common occurrences. Your dog is an animal, so treat it like a damn animal. You can still love your dog and have a fulfilling companionship with your dog ON ITS DAMN LEASH.\n\nI've been bit twice by passing unleashed dogs. My brother was bit by a passing dog in a hotel hallway off leash the day he was supposed to officiate my wedding, and he required urgent care. I've heard of at least 9 cases of dogs running away very suddenly while off leash.\n\nFor the last time, LEASH YOUR DOG.",
"Yeah, and that makes the case for these dogs worse, not better.",
"Businesses are actually allowed to ask that the dog demonstrate what it is a service animal for. Ie picking up a water bottle because the owner cant bend over. 99% of businesses will not do this because someone willing to fake a service vest is willing to start an altercation.",
"Exactly, kick before your arms. You have to keep your face/neck far away from the dogs.",
"In all honesty, if you shoot a dog in a residential area (even if yours is being attacked) can you be held or charged with something?",
"Also as a friendly reminder if your dog is charged/ attacked by a dog off leash, sometimes (I guess depending on the size and bread of your dog) it’s best to drop your leash so your animal can properly defend itself. \n\nAlso, the best way to separate fighting dogs is to grab them by their hind legs. \n\nAlso, I’m not an expert, just a dog owner that has seen some shit.",
"r/banpitbulls",
"More importantly, ALWAYS keep your dog leashed during walks and out of fenced areas.",
"No, because that’s not normal. Being an idiot doesn’t make you just slap dogs for literally no reason. You are assuming the commenter is a POS from the get-go and making an ass out of you and him. I’d argue that a normal person would have some adverse reaction to their dog eating their cat. And another cat. And biting a human. A reaction like, I don’t know, slapping the dog.",
"It's insane people defending pittys in this post. you just need to scroll through dog attacks on [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States_\\(2010s\\)) to see they're a terrible breed to own in general.",
"I am actually getting a gun for this sole purpose. There are to many rednecks, thugs, trash people , stupid people with those dogs. I will shut them down before the hurt my baby",
"There are different types of aggression. Some dogs are ridiculously dog aggressive while loving all people with others only love their owners and don't like other people.",
"No, that’s like saying we shouldn’t have humans bc they murder people. Yes, some animals have something wrong and some are aggressive, same as people. That is with any breed. However, this is due to how they are nurtured and raised, not their native personality. Pit bulls can be very, very sweet dogs.\n\nhttps://phs-spca.org/myth-of-lockjaw/",
"I was actually able to get ahold of the pitbulls hind legs and did just that but it had already grabbed the other dog. It did not let go.",
"Maybe like a bunch of 3amp car fuses in the shape of the teeth?",
"It isn’t compassionate to not report in these situations. In fact, it is immoral because now the dog is able to attack someone else’s child that doesn’t know about the fetal position defense. \n\n\nWhy would you believe the owner in the first place? You actually expected them to say “Oh yeah the dog attack someone else.”",
"I love animals, love dogs. But if a dog does this to my pet? I'm kicking that dog square in the face as many times as it takes to get the fucker away from my animal. \n\nIdiot owner should train their mutt better, also do better leash training so it doesn't rip away from you when you're out for a walk.",
"Okay, but if all it took was an accusation then you could literally just get any person's dog euthanized for no reason and terrible people would absolutely take advantage of that.",
"15 years in a rescue. I've heard, \"My dog is never like this...\" from nearly every owner. It's like the sweet tooth who says, \"I never eat this stuff,\" while literally eating that stuff.\n\nEvery dog owner takes it personally if it's suggested they need to be extra watchful and leash their dog. Like they think you're calling them a failure. No, dude. Your dog is an animal with instincts and compulsions we don't understand. You cannot train that out of them. So compensate for it by leashing your damn dog.",
">Something like 60% of all people who were mauled to death by dogs in the US were killed by Pit bulls. The next highest is Rottweiler at 10% or so.\n\nBad metric. I would imagine it would be hard for a Spitz or Pekingese to maul someone to death.",
"That's terrifying. What kind of dog was it?",
"My dog gets attacked by another dog im doing everything in my power to protect my dog and that includes killing the other dog.",
"All the training in world, but at the end of the day, dogs are still animals and animals have natural instincts. It’s within good reason to blame the dogs and the owners.",
"I have no desire to own a gun but I feel like I need one after watching these",
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/baby-mauled-to-death-by-jack-russell-and-bull-terrier-1604029.html%3Famp\n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237532/amp/Pet-Jack-Russell-killed-day-old-boy-escaped-stair-gate-attack-child.html\n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wtvr.com/2012/05/03/jack-russell-terrier-killed-after-infant-attack%3F_amp%3Dtrue\n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/09/baby-died-bitten-jack-russell\n\nSo many people are so naive. Outside of the smallest of toy dogs, they can all kill or do harm. Jack Russell Terriers were originally bred to kill other varmint.",
"To be honest I think he didn't want the people to freak out and try to charge him or something.",
"I know the % of incidents is low overall, but it's ALWAYS a Pit...",
"I’ve adovcated for a special license and training required to own a pit for a long time. People always told me I was an idiot and it will all the fault of the owner, but the statsistcs clearly fell another story.\n\nBy requiring a special license the market for pits would be much smaller and therefore so would the illegal breeding.",
"Let go of the leash and attack the attacking dog with whatever you got.",
"Which country?",
"I think another problem is that there are way more videos of “pit bull” dogs doing this than any other dog. \n\nI have personally rescued greyhounds and they behaved very similar to this, even more aggressive in some instances. However, they never had any interest in anything bigger than a skunk and never any other dog. The data overwhelmingly points to one variety of dogs as the instigator in violent altercations in dog-dog and dog-human interactions.",
"It's in most breeds.",
"I had the exact same thing happening in this video. Just walking my dog (cocker spaniel) who is 15 years old. Then i saw a big ass bull dog walking towards us without an owner. Then he charged at us and got my dog. He got his teeth in his leg and ass. I swear i kicked the living shit out of this dog hoping he would let go, he wouldn't bulge one bit. A thousand thoughts ran through my head. This moment, it seemed like forever. What must i do? I'm i going to lose my best buddy after 15 years in front of my eyes? My fucking heart is racing and i keep kicking the dog, while my dog is screaming in pain. Very lucky for us there was water very nearby, and in a second i decided to drag my dog to the water and throw him in there, as a last resort. I did work thank god, the big ass pitbull finally let go. By then a woman, the owner, came running towards us. Apololgizing profusely, he never did anything like this blabla. Then she was hitting the pitt bull extremely hard. She eventually gave her number for the vet costs. My dog got of with some stitches and anti biotica pills for a month. He is scared of other dogs since. And me too, to be honest. Keep your dogs on the leash please! I still have nightmares from this incident, i hope nobody have to experience this with their beloved pets.",
"Lol these dumbasses are cheering on someone who beat their dog, because ignoring that one little part lets them maintain their belief.",
"Sir are u ok",
"I didn't have a say in this. My brother wanted to euthanize the dog and my dad just wanted it away, my mom was already too invested in it and felt too connected, even to the point where after we had to give it away she'd still cry for an hour in my room and refused to eat for two days until my sister came back home.",
"The claim was that it never happened to humans. I point out that it was in fact practiced during slavery and even pointed out that it wasn't near the extent dogs were.\n\nYou either accept the truth or you ignore it. Your choice. Otherwise you are saying that slave owners did not do it which it's a historical fact they did.",
"The person you're replying to is a complete idiot. Spin through their post history and you'll decide they aren't worth a single word.",
"I woulda gouged it’s eyes out unless I killed it first",
"I’m sorry if you’re the victim of a dog attack. But that has no bearing on what I said. Whatever happened to you was the fault of a human being; be mad at that individual. \n\nCalling animals a mean nickname is just absurdly petty, childish, and cruel, no matter your experience.",
"The person that catches up eats shit too as the dog takes off initially. I think they thinks they can get the dog when it changes directions and lunges for it. It seemed to me that they were trying to stop the dog from the before the whole thing started. Like the dog got out and the whole family is chasing it.",
"\"At the moment I am unable to confirm the breed of the dog. I am able to tell you it was a large and powerful dog and obviously it was acting extremely aggressively at the scene.\"",
"I don't completely support this, but I do think that normal people shouldn't have them, only dog trainers or police.",
"They can be bred to be healthier, and they should be imo",
"But I thought they were a nanny breed!?!?",
"Ok but fuck pitbulls and weirdos who defend them.",
"I used to think it was the owners and not the dog. I know better now. My Dalmatian got viciously attacked by a pit (totally unprovoked - pit just ran up similar to this video) and I still carry the scars on my leg I got from protecting my dog.",
"Literally called on some just the other day. I can put a blind eye to alot but there were 3 dogs dead in the yard.",
"That's fucked up.",
"only one breed is responsible for 70% of human deaths every year, and the vast majority of killing other dogs. They were bred to fight and to clamp and not let go. Mostly just losers own them who want to look tough because they're insecure. Get a golden retriever.",
"Very good point. Don't pick a fight you can't finish. I wasn't worried about the pitbull. Only worried about that dog and maybe my approach wasn't the best but that attack was over in 5 seconds or less. The fact the smaller dog needed just stitches was a damn miracle.\n\nGlad you and your dog ended up being ok. Dog bites suck.",
"My wife works in veterinary. There was a pit bull that out of nowhere attacked a kennel attendant. The closest person was one of the doctors. This doctor happens to have a blackbelt in jujitsu... the woman knows how to kick... she kicked and kicked and the dog wouldn't let go. It only let go when it was ready to let go.",
"Yes absolutely it does",
"Pits are not good dogs. Why won’t people admit this and stop buying them like fashion statements, because that’s all they are to people. I see a pit, I walk the other way. They’re unpredictable on a good day.",
"Have you seen the show? Dude's a fucking boss.",
"Good point… probably something like “dog attacked unprovoked” would be more fitting.",
"I was at the local course and set my bag down to throw and this dudes dog came and peed on my bag. I was pissed and he's like 'it's not even my dog, do you want like $20?' I'm like yeah I do it's a brand new bag.",
"You're both right but talking about different Venn diagrams.",
"Ima just say it, no one should be able to own a dog they can't control, if it decided to snap. See it all too often, these 120 lb, 5'3 boss-babes, with pits that are just accidents waiting to happen.",
"I had the same thought. I know it's not necessarily the dog's fault but if there's some strange, violent dog trying to kill mine, I'm gonna kick its nose through its asshole.",
"Pitbulls were bred for bull baiting and dog fighting. They are dangerous.",
"You're saying they're skewed with no proof. \n\nYou're even citing a biased nonscientific and nonpeer reviewed reddit post as your source. \n\nPits are more dangerous even if you like them.",
"Yup. Really thought we were past the point of people thinking Cesar Milan is a respected dog trainer. \n\nActual dog experts fucking hate the guy. He set dog training back fifty years.",
"Maybe, but also the back of the neck is one of the easiest ways to stop a dog.\n\nHis real issue here was having to hold his own dog *and* trying to stop the other dog. If you can grab and push down on the back of the neck they can't reach your arm and you can control them easily. Kind of like how people grab snakes. You grab a snake's tail you're having a bad time, you grab it behind the head and it's useless.\n\nSide note: I'm referring specifically to *this* guy. Size can be a *big* difference maker. If you're a small person and it's a big ass dog I'd go for kicks too. But if you're stronger (which this guy clearly would be) then I'd feel safer pinning the dog down than I would kicking it and pissing it off even more while it's still free. Then it's just going to keep coming back. Ever seen that video where someone's put bull attacks a horse with a carriage in a park? The fucking *horse* kicks it like 10 times and the dog is like halfway dead and *still* fucking coming at the horse. Some of these aggressive dogs will fight to the death. So I'd rather end the fight than have it keep lunging and me keep kicking or something.\n\nBut he didn't have a lot of options because he was trying to get his own dog out of the way so this is just couch quarterbacking a video after the fact lol",
"I had a GSD mix that, if she was in perfect shape and health, would have weighed about 75lbs since she was mixed with a smaller breed. I weighed about 210lbs on a 6' 2\" frame and that dog would have still required some force to actually take down if she was pissed. Fortunately a pomeranian could have made that dog its bitch since she was a push over and loved everything.\n\nUnfortunately she was genetically prone to diabetes and feeding her Purina brand food did not help that at all, she developed the disease. Now she loves on a big farm with other animals that have health problems, I bet she loves it there",
"We did do that though, my mom owns a condominium with about 10 people from outside our family living in the apartments, plus a plethora of people coming to visit, we had 6-8 cats living outside our house and four living with the dog as it grew up. We taught it to sit, lay, stop and to make it come to us we made a 'tck-tck-tck' with our tongue.\n\n Mind you, it's not a very big condomium (I'm not even sure if that's the right word) it has 7 rooms plus a yard.",
"> \"I can't do anything about that\"\n\nAll I read from this is they're too lazy or they're a pussy and are too afraid of their own dog to leash train it.",
"Temperament is genetic. Pitbulls were bred to fight and be aggressive. An individual pitbull could be sweet one minute and snap into predator mode the next. Has little to do with training and is very unpredictable. They can't help it, it's not their fault but they should be banned in populated areas.",
"This happened to me. This old, insanely obese women, wearing a neck brace clearly was incapable of owning a pitbull, lost control of the leash and it came and attacked my fairly old English setter. Ended up bitting his neck (luckily just the skin). I started punching it as hard as I could then put my fingers in his nostrils so he couldnt breath. Eventually got him off.\n\nI was pissed... A few weeks later she lost control of her dog again! I put myself between my dog and hers and told her if it happens again I was going to fucking kill her dog and told her she obviously can't control it.",
"holy shit",
"Straight up 6 months ago I was attacked by a Pitt who was off leash. He completely mangled my arm. I was rushed by ambulance to the er. The owners grabbed the dog and fled the scene before cops arrived. My insurance didn't cover it I live in US. So that was a fun medical bill I received, along with 6 stitches in my arm and multiple puncture wounds on my knee and hands. The owners got to keep the dog. Yay America. People who own large dogs need to train them. It's never the dogs fault, it's the owner. But fuck these dogs can kill.",
"It's the pitbull's family - they're all running after it at the start of the clip, just the first parent is faster. Looks like they've got a second dog as well.",
"No thanks, my dog's fine off leash. Off leash dog parks are where all the bad dog owners and agressive dogs are",
"\"Slap 'em for no reason\"\n\nHate to break it to you, but violence is not the way to train a dog to not be violent.\n\nI don't know why we've (mostly) all embraced as a society that beating your kids when they misbehave doesn't lead to positive outcomes, and then some people do it for dogs.",
"You should. Exercise your right to defend yourself and your family.",
">Then she was hitting the pitbull extremely hard.\n\nI can't imagine how the dog learned to be so aggressive lol\n\nGlad your buddy was OK. That's a shitty situation for sure and solid thinking with the water.",
"Whats the point in walking your dog if you're not going to wrap the leash up? The shorter the leash the more control.",
"Ugh, no sound but I know he's yelling \"He's friendly!!\" with a big stupid smile on his face.",
"No they dont. Stand your ground laws are an affirmative defense agaisnt an attack by another *person*. \n\nBut all states have some variation of laws on the books that allows you to defend yourself, other people, and likely pets and livestock from an attacking dog.\n\nThe actual laws vary, but it has to be while the dog is attacking and is a threat, you cant kill it once the threat is over. B",
"/r/banpitbulls",
"You know very well Pitbulls are breed to kill. And most Pitbull owner are trash.",
"Pitbulls need to be bred out of existence. Shit breed. There's a reason law enforcement doesn't use them. They're unpredictable and dangerous. I'm sure there are lots of lovely pits in our universe, but the crazy ones and their irresponsible owners have soured the pot. Same reason you can't own a tiger or a lion within most municipalities.",
"If another dog attacked my dog I would try my hardest to kill it. I love all dogs but I love my dog the most.",
"theres a whole sub reddit full of evidence",
"I mean that's almost like worrying about getting hit by a meteor, or getting attacked by a random person. Sure, training is not completely eliminating the possibility of a dog attacking, but it basically does. Sometimes dogs attack and the person was at fault without knowing what they did. THIS isn't that case, but it's clear the dog wasn't trained at all. The dog has blame, it attacked, but it's not entirely to blame.",
"No, they are peaceful, loving, family friendly dogs. Just don't ever pet them from the back, or make a weird noise or movement, or stare at their eyes too long, or have a seizure, or accidentally brush up against them, or smell any different than usual, or have guests over, or let them get close to a ~~child cat dog~~ prey animal, and you won't have to worry about getting mauled to death by a sweet little pibbie.",
"Yeah, I mean if someone said \"I never slapped my kid for no reason!\" I'd think there's a good chance they're an abusive parent. A \"reason\" can be whatever the fuck they want it to be. Accidentally spilling a milk is a reason.",
"Yes... they were it turns out. Did some quick Google and the slave trade in the US goes back as far as 1619. Others report going as far as the 1500s. Slavery was abolished in the US in 1862 when Lincoln made it illegal.\n\nhttps://www.history.com/.amp/topics/black-history/slavery\n\nSo you have about 250 years of slavery in just the US.\n\nSlave breeding was popular enough that there is a Wikipedia page with sources specifically stating why slaves were bred. It was done in mass in response to the changes in slave trade. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen before then.\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeding_of_enslaved_people_in_the_United_States\n\nHere is an excerpt.\n\n> It included coerced [sexual relations](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_relations) between enslaved men and women or girls, [forced pregnancies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_pregnancy) of enslaved women, and favoring women or young girls who could produce a relatively large number of children.[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeding_of_enslaved_people_in_the_United_States#cite_note-Marable-1) The objective was to increase the number of slaves without incurring the cost of purchase, and to fill labor shortages caused by the [abolition of the Atlantic slave trade](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves).[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeding_of_enslaved_people_in_the_United_States#cite_note-Davis2014-2)",
"What a surprise. It's a worst breed ever. I'm so shocked.",
"I had to do this once. My neighbor was fixing his fence and his aggressive pitbull/hound mix charged through the opening the at my dog who was in my garage with me. I saw him coming and kicked him square in the chest with a steel toe boot. It sent the dog back a couple feet and he turned around and ran back to his yard.\nThe thing is, I didnt really mean to do it. I saw him coming and just kicked. There was no conscious thought to it. I just kicked. People always say \"well if it were me in that situation I would have...\" The thing is, in a truly stress full situation you're not prepared for, you have no idea how you'll actually react.",
"Best thing to do in that situation is either to get behind the attacking dog and grab the hind legs and yeet them as far as you can or kick them as hard as you can in the torso. An aggressive dog like that will only understand force.",
"I always retort with the fact that most all dogs will bite a person, it's just that when a pitbull does so, the results are often severe.",
"If you land a blow solid enough, it'll end it. Knocking the wind out of anything is one thing. If you so much as crack a rib, you won't want to move, let alone fight.\n\nI actually had a Pomeranian rush mine #65 and #110... The one hid behind me, the other (65#) was ready to eat this yipper. Small knee to the side and that put a stop to that. Lifted her in the air and had to wait for the neighbors to grab their runt. Sucked I had to do it, but it was a lot easier to do that then to explain why I let mine eat theirs. Thankfully she doesn't seem to hold a grudge against small dogs...outside bullying them because she figured out she can swat the shit out of em.",
"I think even 'nice' dogs can attack sometimes. I wouldn't recommend leaving any dog alone with children especially a larger one (heck I would be wary leaving a cat alone with anyone under 6-8 ish as they can attack too sometimes)",
"I think that the pitbull was on a leash. The owner and the pitbull seem to be out jogging together. It looks like that pitbull has not been trained/socialised correctly. It sees the other dog and darts-off unexpectedly in its direction causing the owner to fall over. The owner is at fault for not having trained their dog properly. \n\nYou can see the leash hanging from the pitbull at 0:14.",
"lol OK Karen",
"There's a whole subreddit full of fanatics that can't tell the difference between any of the breeds and wants all dogs that may or may not have pitbull in them dead. Are you seriously a part of that awful, hateful subreddit? Why not just go around punching puppies, or join peta if you hate animals that much.",
"You seen a pit with lockjaw on another animal? You’d rethink your comment if you had. If a pit latched onto my CHILD let alone my dog I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot it. I am 6’4 250lbs and if I can’t get that thing away from my family peacefully it’s going to be put down. \n\nAnd I am the kind of guy to spend hours looking for a loose dogs house to get it home safely, or put spiders in cups to relocate rather than kill them. Animals are amazing. I’d still end the life of one that put my family at risk",
"You can't train out aggressive genes. Just accept that pitbulls are unpredictably aggressive because that's what was bred into them.",
"My dog is so bad about it. He's leashed most of the time and he tries his hardest to drag me around. Then there's those places I can take him off leash and he just calmly walks about 5 feet away from me.",
"Do not damn pit bulls for a simple accident. The owner lost grip of the leash and fell.",
"I'll say any big dog would do as much damage.. German shepherd, rottweiler, doberman, even a Labrador.. \n\nCuriously enough, the only breed that I consider aggressive/unstable by nature, is the Chihuahua.. those suckers are the devil incarnated.",
"This is why I ALWAYS carry a large pointed “walking” stick with me whenever I take my dog out. If you can’t control your dog - I will. \n\nI don’t go to dog parks or walk my dog at peak times because of people just like this. And they’re always the one that say “it’s ok, he’s just being friendly”.",
"I carry my pistol exactly for these situations. It will be a really shitty day if it comes to that, but fuck letting my dog or myself get hurt over gross negligence like this.",
"It is not the dogs, it is the owners. I would sue. The dog needs to be given up and put into a home that can properly train him and love him. A bad dog shouldn’t be put down because the owners did not do their job to be a good owner. Sue the owner and find another home for that dog.",
"Thanks for at least taking the time to read the linked article and educate yourself.\n\nI completely understand your issues. They look scary, certainly different, at least. When one moves into your neighborhood, you feel threatened. You've always been told that they're closely associated with violence and antisocial behavior, so obviously they are. And don't even get me started on when they're interbred with upstanding breeds, like golden retrievers. Let's just be grateful that we still have colored-only water fountains so they're not mucking up your drinking water. \n\nOh shit, sorry, I forgot which archaic, ignorant opinion we were talking about. \n\nAnd before anyone tries to claim I'm equating pitbull hate and racism, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that the same type of othering and fear mongering are the only ways you can justify the two.",
"Here in Texas the governor just signed a law forbidding that.. even a broken clock is right once in a while.",
"His techniques may create obedient dogs, but they don’t create loyal ones. The dog will only act that way around the person who trained it out of fear of punishment. Once that person is gone the dog is just a wild animal.\n\nIt’s like how if you train your dog to not pee/poop in the house by rubbing their nose in it. The dog learns to be ashamed of it, and tries to hide it. Most of the time they’ll go outside, but you’ll end up finding some turds hidden away.",
"Serious answer is to choke the aggressor dog. Most Pit Bulls or Pit Bull-type dogs will have a neck similar in size to a human. If you cut off it's air way with a tight choke, it's immediate reflex will be to open it's mouth.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LppnEfRoFIM",
"I had a great pitbull as well... Great around humans... But that thing would kill whatever came into the backyard be it cat or raccoon.",
"It was a bit of a mutt so not entirely sure but it mainly came off as a Rottweiler. I remember it being massive but I was young so I'm sure it was as big I recall.",
"Wow now you're changing things. I never mentioned anything about black people and violence.\n\n>Except, dog breeds were selectively bred for hundreds of years for particular traits that we value. Of course their genetics matter. \n\nThe above is what you originally stated and what. I'm providing proof that black people were in fact \"selectively bred for hundreds of years for particular traits that we value.\" Using your own words there. \n\nThe \"we\" in this case are slave owners who bred slaves for specific traits. An example of that trait from that wiki article, the trait to have lots of kids.",
"If youre ever in a situation where you want to pull a dog away from a fight, grab their back legs and pull them away like a wheel barrow. The dog wont be able to reach back and bite you and you wont harm the dog",
"Upvote him to the heavens so he can speak the truth.\n\n**PITBULLS ARE FOR TRASHY PEOPLE**",
"Only $200 each??!!",
">“At the moment I am unable to confirm the breed of the dog. I am able to tell you it was a large and powerful dog and obviously it was acting extremely aggressively at the scene.”\n\nCould very easily be a pitbull, could also not be one. Dick move to act as it's a fact just to bring to make a point.",
"I'd submit people that get 'fur baby's' to put in their yard to bark all day are terrible as well. If you can't be bothered to feed, care, and TRAIN your dog you shouldn't be a dog owner. Find something else to fill that checkbox in your life.",
"I don’t walk my dog without one.",
"Absolutely. The dog getting attacked could have probably handled its own against the attacker. The proceed to kick the ever living shit out of the dog that's the aggressor. Your pup will appreciate knowing that you have its back just as much as it has yours.",
"You show me the data collection criteria and methodology on a report that supports your claim and I may concede the point though if they are a pitbull mix breed than my point stands as they are part pitbull. As for the other breeds, I'm concerned about a dog that can and do often seriously harm or mortally wound. If Chihuahuas were larger than I would I be talking about them in the same manner as pitbulls but they are not so we don't.....but hey it's easier to call most pit owners pieces of shit than admit that maybe dogs are not perfect (apparently it's okay to blanket stereotype to protect a dog) Again, anecdotal stories about pit owners don't mean shit.",
"Pitbulls popular today. A couple ate a great grandma and another killed a kid in the UK.",
"So true. Dogs are only friendly because we bred the friendliness into them. Some were bred to be less friendly than others.",
"None of those subs are places you should be going for unbiased info. \n\nAlso… you think banpitbulls is a victim of brigading, but you don’t see why you can’t post pitbull attacks in the pitbull appreciation subs? My lord. Bless your heart.",
"Cops should absolutely not have shit bulls, wtf is wrong with you.",
"I have been a dog owner all my life, but it's for everyone's safety to keep dog on a leash. I was training on a track once and someone let their dog run around, when your doing sprints you can't really move sideways, your entire training is stop non forward movement. The 20 pound dog ran right under my feet I think I ended up kicking it over 10 feet, I fell down pretty hard too.",
">I can understand the emotional response of thinking pits are generally aggressive/misbehaved dogs….\n\nThe problem isn't that they're generally aggressive or misbehaved. The problem with pits is that they're overbred by morons and can be highly unpredictable. It's a crapshoot whether you'll end up with a docile bro or an overexcitable high game biter. Often their aggression doesn't manifest until adulthood, which means you can have a relatively problem-free puppy that suddenly kills another dog after its 2nd birthday. Even pitbull kennels and clubs will admit that they can't be trusted around other dogs. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nThere's a reason why these high game bull breeds aren't used for any type of real work. There are no farm pitbulls or police pitbulls or search and rescue pitbulls. It's because they're unreliable and unable to be trained to a consistent standard, and the only thing they're good at is biting and holding.",
"Ok but no one cares about your essays on pitbulls",
"Ahh yes, the classic argument of \"no bad breeds, only bad owners\"... a dog's ability to overpower their owner certainly has a lot to do with the breed and size, no? We do NOT simply breed physical characteristics... we've bred their mentality too. Hundreds of years into making herding dogs instinctively herd... making sled dogs wired to pull... and yes, making some dogs more aggressive to protect territory or possessions. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nOf course I support the fact that a super well-trained pit bull can be a friendly and lovable dog. However, take a pit bull and a golden retriever, and train them the same amount. The pit will remain the more aggressive dog. Hands down. THAT is the problem. We have to rely on people taking the crucial extra (and continuous) steps with more aggressive breeds in order for them to be safe in our communities.",
"After my limited research my logic behind this is that while Pitbulls aren't responsible for more reported dog bites even when accounting for popularity they're drastically more responsible for deaths. The reason being once they lose control they can only be stopped by force unlike other very popular breeds.",
"Good boy",
"They're dumb as a box of rocks kind of like boxers but were bred to fight.",
"IM FURIATED",
"I think because it wasn't necessary, he was able to gain control of the dog with one hand.",
"Please please please do not let them get away with this unreported. That dog will go on to bite again.",
"Bullshit. Please show me a Pomeranian who has murdered a toddler. I'll wait.",
"No, she was running along with the dog with leash in hand and when the dog saw another dog, it changed direction and that's what caused the leash holder to fall. The whole family is going for a dog walk and the leash holder wanted to run with the dog for a bit, and didn't have control of the leash enough for unexpected encounters.",
"If you want to put all the blame on the owner, then would you agree that the owner of an animal that maims/kills a human or a pet be penalized criminally and financially for every attack?",
"I knew reading comprehension was a huge area of opportunity for a lot of people, but I hadn't realized it was that bad. Would you like me to draw up some pictures so that you can understand?",
"Ahem, don't you mean when a pit *nannies* people?",
"No. Breed =/= behavior.",
"I live in Denver. \n\nAlmost every month I hear \"My dog is usually never like this!\" \n\nI don't mind dogs, had them growing up in the Hills. I gotta say, living in Denver as an adult makes me fucking hate them and their owners.\n\nMy neighbors \"Service dogs\" are a royal pain in the ass, every morning I wake up to him screaming at his dog to come in at 5AM, as it runs around the neighborhood. He takes in stores too, pulling at the leash and shit. Ridiculous.",
"Fuckin A it does.",
"I mean if it has a choke chain or any neck collar thats generally the best way to restrain them, you can cut off their air supply without seriously hurting them.",
"People underestimate the amount of force that even a smaller muscular dog can produce. Pits might not have the endurance of other breeds but in terms of very quick muscular force, they can really pull. Especially when they go into attack/fight mode.\n\nAnd if you're not expecting it, it doesn't *really* matter how strong you are. If you're not braced and don't have your feet planted in a way that will let you resist it, you'll likely be pulled over or lose grip.",
"In my town that dog would have been shot before it hit your property.",
"Infuriating to say the least, every single time it's a pitbull, almost never any other breed, now imagine the dog being attacked was a little kid or a fragile senior citizen? Ridiculous that they're not banned already.",
"Then why are so many pit bulls killing humans nowadays? Why is it that same breed of dog over and over? \n\nJust shitty owners all around? Maybe it would be better with some sort of legislation to take heat off of the dog: require the owners to get a license or something?",
"I actually learned this from Reddit... if there is a dog fight/attack, drop the leash, and grab the aggressor by the hind legs and pull like hell. Has saved me/my dog twice.",
"My boss’s old and blind dachshund was attacked a couple weeks ago by a dog. Poor Franky, didn’t even know what was coming. The owner said the same thing regarding their dog never being like that.",
"lol wasn't that dude revealed to be a fraud?",
"That next 12 year old it finds is going to want to pet the doggy and will get turned into lunch.",
"It's obviously a pitbull lol, like it's not even a question.",
"I think the fact that your brain goes towards comparing dog breeds to people says more about you than the brigading anti-pit bull crowd.",
"I’ve started carrying [dog pepper spray](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AU6J68Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2Y06SSR2FF4ME3DW616E) with me when I walk my dog. People let their dogs off leash all the time. A pitbull ( coincidence, I’m not a pit hater ) came running through the parking garage and attacked my neighbors dog while the owner was still outside. I bough the spray after that and thankfully haven’t had to use it.",
"If a dog jumps at you put your arms up like a boxer protecting their face then when the dogs legs are past your head spread them side to side it may break the dogs legs but your ass will still be safe",
"This looks like a clickbait / misleading title.\n\nThe dog is leashed and the owner is running and trips when the dog pulls to the right. There was control of the animal but that was lost when the owner tripped and instinctually attempted to break the fall by releasing the leash. It's a terrible situation but not one that can be called, \"negligence.\"",
"Police here in Texas told me to buy a handgun and just shot to kill. I have been attacked five times in two years. I carry a bat now, a go pro and bear mace. I can't bring my self to buy a gun.",
"\"if ur a little weak person with a defenseless little animal maybe dont walk the streets.\"\n\nwell that's kind of a shitty way to see the situation, how about we just don't let random people own pitbulls, and then \"little weak people\" can walk the streets\n\nmugging is a crime...we at least TRY and stop this from happening in that scenario",
"Yup. Not sure why this is phrased like a ‘gotcha.’ \n\nNo one should own a strong dog without taking full responsibility for the risks.",
"In other articles the neighbors are quoted as saying it's an \"American pitbull staffie type\" dog that has been causing problems in the neighborhood for a long time. Most likely a pitbull mix.",
"This is the problem, animal owners should be hit with animal neglect charges when their pet attacks and heavily fined. I don't care what the excuse is. They should also be required to get the dog trained professionally since they obviously failed at it themselves or lose ownership of it. If it harms a person that's assault, if it kills that's murder.",
"Probably true. But this isn’t Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.\n\nPlenty of responsible pit bull owners have been surprised when their dog attacks.\n\nThe breed itself is inherently dangerous.",
"Source?",
"Or it's genetically aggressive towards other dogs which is what pitbulls have been intentionally bred for...",
"This is how it should be in all counties. Or at the very least, mandatory muzzle laws with prison a punishment for the owners for flout the law.",
">Thats the thing you know, i kinda feard for myself too, what if he comes for me? You have to be carefull in these situations. Putting a death chocke on a crazy big wild pitbull Bas Rutten style is not your first thought haha!",
">\tor dont get a pitbull. i don't get why they're allowed anywhere.\n\nBecause they’re living beings that have to exist *somewhere?*\n\nLike maybe we can put laws in place to limit breeding, but what’s the plan for the ~18 million pit bulls in existence? Pit bulls are bred to be more aggressive, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be good, loyal dogs to owners who are responsible and respectful enough to have them. Better than the alternative of killing them all.",
"There are plenty of dumb, irresponsible, flawed logic having people that own Old English Sheepdogs.\n\nThose dogs will not attack, you’ll be lucky if they get off the couch.",
"It's usually white trash or rich people with no brains that own pitbulls.",
"TIL always call.",
"I owned a negligent dog once",
"Ya and like I honestly have no dog in the race. I think they can be really cute and based on people's experience friendly dogs. I think people automatically assume when someone says something like I did, that I'm saying euthenize or ban them. I'm not. There's other solutions to help their image and in turn the whole breed. \n\nI hope one day they will be known as a durpy fun dog like a boxer.",
"Its the breed not the owner.",
"I have to carry mace while I run since I've been bit twice by off-leash dogs on rail trails. \"He's never done this before!!\" both times. Leash your dog please",
"Over the next week, because of this post, Reddit will artificially inflate the numbers on \"look at my cute pitbull, he wouldn't hurt a fly\" posts and they'll be on the frontpage. They do this because they think its right to counter any organic realities, such as the honest and true reality that pitbulls are the most impulsive and dangerous breed. \n\nReddit refuses to allow for any natural, organic realities that grow out of actual life experience itself by actual people in society, so it must counter that to show its virtuous nature.",
"Kill that fucking dog. If I'm walking my dog and some rabid mutt comes by, I'm going to kill it.",
"I mean sit, stay, down and come are quite literally the bare bones for training any dog. It's literally the focus of the first few training sessions.\n\nA pit bull needs far more engaging and ongoing training than that. In fact, most dogs need ongoing consistent training regardless of size or aggression.",
"What are you talking about? That's ***precisely*** the purpose of breeding.",
"Yupp. Also, even if your dog is perfectly mannered on a leash and your 10 year old can control the dog without issue. Can your 10 year old control the dog if someone else is irresponsible and their dog attacks yours? You have to not only consider your dogs behavior but also everyone else's dogs behavior. If your dog is that well trained (mine all do obedience shows so they actually are) then letting the kid hold the leash is fine. But you should be right there ready to intervene in case some jackass can't control their own dog.",
"That dog wouldn't bat an eye if someone kicked it, unless it was Joe Rogan, have you ever seen his backward spin kick? That will blow your shin right off your body.",
"Wonder if it's an American Pitbull terrier as they are on the dangerous dogs acts, which cannot be owned or sold in the UK.",
"Good. Just make sure to be safe, [always follow the 4 rules of gun safety](https://www.agirlandagun.org/how-to-shoot/4-rules-of-gun-safety/) and make sure to practice at a range you feel comfortable with!",
"Watch the video and actually pay attention to the part when the leash holder falls.",
"Now I’m imagining someone trying to break up a fight by trying to pinch the pitbull’s tiny tail nub with their thumb and pointer finger.",
">the size of my fuse. \n\n\nFound Mark Zuckerberg's Reddit account!",
"Hah it's special when people try to pretend vicious dogs with vicious genetics and volumes of data to back their vicious tendencies are somehow always driven to be that way by the owners. \n\nI mean I will agree, it's their fault for not understanding their breed is vicious to begin with, and that's perpetuated by this owner-fault-only nonsense. Some dogs are just born assholes, and some also happen to be capable of latching on to your throat and not letting go. \n\nBlue heeler owner here, would never own a pit or rot.",
"These people don't get it, they think kicking a fucking tank of a dog is going to stop it. There is that one video of the horse stomping an aggressive pitbull to death, it took way longer than expected.",
"I mean someone just mentioned a springer spaniel mauling other dogs in previous comments. It's not the breed.",
"Exactly, Chihuahuas can be right fuckin psychos too but you're not going to lose an arm to one. \n\nThe bottom line is that Pitbulls are physiologically engineered to deal as much physical damage as possible within the limits of canine biology. \n\nIts a no brainer that the mere presence of one is an inherent threat even if its well raised and behaved because all it takes is one bite and you could have a dead kid.",
"Yup, that dog would be getting a bullet to the head as soon as I got home.",
"Thanks for responding. To reiterate, the more important part here is that what happened to your little guy is awful and inexcusable and my heart goes out to you both.\n\nI didn't mean to make you feel you had to justify the dog being 156 pounds. I took that as given.\n\nNow, a 156 pound dog isn't a member of any of the four \"pit bull\" breeds of dogs. That's just facts. Maybe it was a \"Bully XL\", but how am I to know.\n\nIt seems like you're holding steady on your intention to pin what happened on a \"pit bull\". But shouldn't we blame the dog who attacked instead?",
"How else is he going to look though and get respect from people?",
"Good call I do potentially see that at full frame. I stand corrected!",
"Anyone who owns a dog in a populated area is a negligent person period. If you own more than one dog in populated area you are a negligent pet owner.\nIf you own tiny dogs you are a terrible person, you literally just helped contribute to killing of a entire line of dogs, but go ahead and put a bow on dog and carry him around in purse and call him by a human name.\n\nThe USA has a pet problem that needs addressed. The pet section of my walmart has increased from 1 row 5 years ago, to the size of paper and chemicals section combined now.\n\nThey need more strict laws to deal with pets, because as it is going, pretty soon you will just have news reports of just roaming hordes of dogs around outside.\n\nI've shot and killed hundreds of dogs over the years at the farm that people just dump, to put that in perspective in the early 2000s i might of found a couple of year i would just give to neighbor families. Now i don't have time or resources to deal with that so they got to go .",
"invisible fence",
"You show me a man who doesn't fear a Border Collie, I'll show ya a man who isn't making it out o' Scotland alive!",
"invisible fence you redditor",
"> The proceed to kick the ever living shit out of the dog that's the aggressor. \n\nDepending on the dog that might not do jack shit, other than make the dog turn on you and kill you.",
"Not just kids. \n\n\nIt should be a universal rule that nobody should be given, \"control,\" over an animal that they can not control with brute force if the need arises. Brute force is the final safety balance and for some animals it is often the only means to retain control before harm comes to a person.",
"I was walking in the park with my wife and toddler and watched a pitbull pull its owner to the pavement to lunge at a poodle. I went up to help sort it out, and the dog turned and bit its own owner in the face. She sat there on the pavement bleeding out her face and probably concussed insisting that he never acts like that.\n\nThe poor poodle seemed fine, but the young girl who owned it was so shaken up. Helped her call for help and convince the pitbull owner to call an ambulance for herself, but she was out of it enough and refused. Her husband was there and went along with what she wanted...",
"You sound demented. \n\nReally, really low chance when you’re shouting KILL in all-caps on the internet that you’re on the right side of the debate. Food for thought",
"Definitely not your first thought, I agree. And it depends if the Pit has it's jaws in already. If it doesn't, they you probably can't get close enough to start the choke without getting seriously bit yourself. But if it already has it's jaws in and is clamping down, choking would be the best way to go.",
"She lives with two other dogs. One she’s good with. The other she bully’s. I understand the term bully breed now.",
"Damn I can't watch these type of videos way too heartbreaking I'd rather watch a human get mauled by a dog than a dog get mauled",
"Are you for real? That stuff doesn't exist in most of the USA. Most towns don't even have animal control lol",
"No surprise then that it’s the most common dog in America.",
"You should check out r/banpittbulls",
"ITT: PITBULLS ARE ALL EVIL!!!! WE NEED TO KILL THEM ALL!!!!\n\n&#x200B;\n\nbuncha fuckin' nazi's",
"I've met lots of dogs that hated other dogs and none of them were pitbulls. I guess pomeranians, golden retrievers, and border collies are were also bred to have genetic aggression towards other dogs.",
"Ive got a ten pound terrier mix. He's an old man. I live in a somewhat rough neighborhood where folks don't always secure their dogs. If he ever gets attacked, you best believe I'm gonna shoot the loose dog if i have a safe shot to do so. My dog is on a leash and theirs aint. I won't feel good about it but I'll kill anything that tries to come for my boy.",
"I was just asking you a question, no need to get cheeky with a response. I was curious about perspectives from people that don't seem to be acting strongly from one side or the other.",
"It's a mistake that I assume can be reversed. But I guess the upper people rather just ban them and not have to deal with it rather than look for a real solution.",
"People wanting this dog makes me so fucking mad",
"FYI they have no REAL service dog vests, putting a vest on doesn't even make a service dog a service dog, that comes from paperwork.",
"Not going to lie, Im not a fan of how he handled this situation. First thing I’m doing if I have a dog more than 40lbs that can’t just be scooped up and held away to be protected, im letting my dog loose by dropping that leash. I’m not using 1 hand to hinder my dogs ability to fight and trying to fend off a pit with 1 hand. I’m giving my dog it’s full ability to fight and using both hands to smother that pit. Grab it and get on top of it and pin it to the ground. \n\nI’m giving my dog the best chance at defending itself and giving it the advantage by tag teaming the pit. Huge animal lover and I’d never be happy about a dog getting hurt. If a dogs going to get hurt though, someone else’s aggressive dog that charged my dog is the one I prefer. Luckily my Aussie is very responsive. So if I tackled the pit and she was loose I could tell (yell) her to go inside and she’d go sit at the door as badly as she wanted to help. If you don’t have complete control over your dog to where they listen to any command on the spot without hesitation or repeating it, they should never be off the leash when outside. If your dog is aggressive at all, never off the leash outside. \n\nNot going to lie when I walk her I always carry a pocket knife. I usually have one on me at all times, but for sure when I walk her. She’s been charged by dogs off leash and their owner either is MIA or just oblivious (I’ve seen them say “oh they are just playing” when it’s a full on fight. We don’t go to the dog park anymore). As much as I’d hate it I’d kill another dog before I let it maul my kid.",
"No- he's talking about banpitbulls.\n\nNot r/pitbulls.",
"I know people with pits who are perfectly fine with other dogs. If the pits being a bully see a behaviour specialist. There aren't bad dogs. Only bad owners.",
"Looks like the dog's back/butt, with the tail hanging down.",
"Thus, an accident.",
"It was an office building. Pit Bulls should not be freely roaming places of work",
"I saw today in the news, a 70 year old woman was mauled by a pitbull. The owner is off the hook because he could not have foreseen the tragedy. You have to be extra careful today, nobody cares or accepts responsibility for others anymore. US is USSR now.",
"Obviously can't speak for the person in the video, but in my own experiences with off-leash dogs running at me and my dogs, I found it difficult to think beyond \"protect my dog, keep other dog away\" - even when it was two little poms coming after my huskys. We've had other dogs come at our mal on walks too, and there's no picking up a 140lb dog who's in that state. \n\nStrange observation is that the owners of the off-leash dogs seem to almost universally be very nonchalant in collecting their dog(s). The one situation I was more worried about my dogs causing injuries or death to the tiny poms that came running across the road at them. I wound up racing home and driving back to make sure the owner and dogs were OK. \n\nEven recounting this I get a bit of the adrenaline hit that I feel during every off-leash interaction.",
"I mean what could be more necessary? No but seriously I can't help but feel some big pain would teach that dog to think again about attacking that family.",
"My dog was attacked by an Akita. During these moments no matter how much we hit they won’t let go. \nThe vet suggested I go around and drag the attacking dog’s hind legs. It loses its balance and immediately let’s it go",
"Off topic, but I went to your profile to see if you had any pictures of your dog (adorable) and I have to say that your art is incredible.",
"It's so strange how every pitbull enthusiast has a story about how they were almost killed by a Chihuahua or a Golden Retriever. \n\nWhen the stats say pits kill and seriously injure more people and pets than all other breeds combined. \n\nIs it just one chihuahua and Golden that is hunting down pit owners? Someone should do something about those two. They are a menace.",
"Pitbull = weapon...",
"Unpredictability aggressive pitbull. Unimaginable.",
"I like animals and I like pit bulls as well. I’ve met some very nice, well-behaved pit bulls. The problem is that some pit bulls come from long lines of dogs that were selectively bred to be aggressive towards other dogs. People will easily accept that there are bred-in traits for other dog breeds, such as sheepdogs having this instinct to herd and terriers wanting to dig for rats…but apparently the influence of selective breeding for pit bulls is both irrelevant and offensive. My family fostered a pit bull. She was a very sweet dog towards us, but shockingly violent towards other animals. \n\nI will say that I was attacked and bitten by a dog as a kid. It was a golden retriever, the “family dog.” I think it is poor treatment and training that causes dogs to attack children. Humans clearly did not selectively breed animals to kill our kids. People probably need to be more aware and respectful of particular dangers associated with pit bulls, however. If nothing else they are extremely powerful dogs.",
"Pit bulls shouldn't exist.\n\n\nStop breeding them.",
"Your mom is stupid af or a fucking psychopath.",
"Let's set their behavior and it's source aside for a moment, I'm saying that the sheer fact that humans can own an animal capable of these sorts of things without a special license or something seems like it deserves a discussion. \n\nI can't raise a poodle to do as much damage as a pit could",
"If your dog gets in fights your dog is a problem. A chill dog doesn’t get in fights. Even if the other dog tries to instigate. \n\nThink I’m lying? Watch any dog try to start a fight with a service dog. They can’t. It’s chill. Won’t attack and will not be attacked. \n\nIf dogs attack your dog, you still have work to do.",
"We're sure you have.\n\nJust like how every pit owner has a story about a Golden Retriever that almost killed them.",
"brave little guy<3",
"You want to ban most of the shelter dogs in America? What do you think will happen if that happens?",
"By shooting someone’s dog that attacked you on your property? While you have a gun? Idk mate, your math doesn’t pan out.",
"I know several pits that play great with other dogs. Anecdotal evidence is pretty pointless.",
"My cat was attacked and lethally injured by a similar dog attack. I remember the dog dashing towards my cat exactly like this… I got very bad flashbacks :/\n\nIt looked like my cat was a chew toy",
"Police dog-narcotics: https://www.rover.com/blog/apollo-police-dog-pitbull/\n\nPolice dog-missing persons and narcotics: https://dogtime.com/trending/32425-rescued-pit-bull-joins-k9-unit-new-york-fights-stereotypes\n\nSearch and Rescue: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tiUdMumli34\n\nSearch and Rescue: https://www.dailypaws.com/pet-news-entertainment/hero-animals/hero-pit-bull-search-and-rescue-survivor\n\nCanine Good Citizen and Therapy dog: https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/blueberry-the-pit-bull-changes-hearts-and-minds-as-a-therapy-dog\n\nAmerican Bulldogs, one of the many breeds that’s lumped into the pitbull catch-all term, was created specifically to be a farm dog. It’s in their AKC breed history and the traits persist in their breed standard, they’re still common farm dogs in the south: https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/american-bulldog/",
"I got banned from r/aww for pointing out this shit.",
"I believe it is possible – and not even that hard – for us to engage our hearts and our brains at the same time. It doesn't have to be an either/or. In fact, there's something really strange about the idea that the only way we can show caring is by pretending facts are not facts.\n\nSuppose I see you get shot by John X. Zzyzx. And you say \"Jane Y. Xyzzy shot me!\" Which person do you feel I should be mad at, John or Jane?\n\nI think that's all this subthread is about? I feel we should hold people/animals accountable for what they do, even when it's annoying.",
"It’s not. It fucking sucks. But so does being mauled to death by a dog.",
"Lmao they aren't even in the top 5. Congrats on showing how ignorant you are. A simple google search will bring up several breeds that rank much higher than any pitbull-type.",
"From one gun owner to another always account for where the bullet travels but more so what it ricochets off of. A lady did just that shot at a dog and ended up shooting her 5 year old son. [The video was posted on reddit](https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/us_world_news/video-mom-accidentally-shoots-her-5-year-old-son-while-trying-to-target-loose-dog/article_dcfcbe82-050c-50cb-acd5-0edb486b13c1.html)",
"Certainly there are some sweet pit bulls but it amazes me how people defend them as a safe breed when they clearly can be more dangerous than most breeds.",
"Ok I misunderstood. I thought the guy I replied to said he was going to attack whoever shot his dog",
"And dog owners complain about cats...",
"I have 2 dogs & when this happens, I always drop their leashes now. Since my dogs grew up together they do their “dog pack” thing and overwhelm any single dog. The rogue dog submits / shows tum tum and then things are relatively calm when the owner arrives. When I tried to hold them during the initial rush, it is always mayhem / they get bit / confused by my stupid “NO” commands / cannot “pack up” / pincer movement / etc.",
"I am merely pointing out what you asked for, a source, whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant.\n\nIf you asked me where you want to find evidence of wafflehouse fights, I will gladly point you there.\n\nYour problem is your so quick to shoot first it that you come off as someone who resolves conflict by putting your foot down. Feelsbadman",
"You're nicer than me. When \"that\" dog came at me and my dog I punted it across the street and threatened the owner with a punting as well if he didn't get his dog a harness (dog backed out of its collar) as this obviously wasn't the first time.\n\nE: also my dog was a Dobbie would have killed that other dog if I hadn't kept her back.",
"Oh man, another pitbull hate thread. I swear to God, why can't people just let it go? My dad's friend had a pitbull and it was the sweetest thing on the planet. Great with the kids, gentle, just perfect. Right up until it jumped through a fucking plate glass window and mauled someone outside.",
"If you need to work that hard to make a dog not kill things, what does that tell us. Other breeds your work hard so that they stop jumping up or walking well on a leash. Big difference.",
"Pitbulls are the reason I carry bear mace when I walk my dog",
"The only difference being, no gun in existence has ever attacked someone in its own. A pitbull is much more dangerous than any gun.",
"Time to kill it before it eats someone's kid.",
"This video is so misleading. This isn't a pit.\n\nWhen a pit does something like this the breed is impossible to tell. Everyone knows that. \n\nThey are only pits when you put them in jammies and post them in r/pitbulls to farm karma. \n\nAlso- When one mauls a family member or kills the family cat and a shelter needs to find them a new home... That's when they become \"lab mixes\".\n\nAmazing creatures.",
"Fuck that dog, consider yourself lucky.",
"Pits cause more damage and commit more fatal dog than any other breed or set of breeds by a large fucking margin",
"I think that argument is a very slippery slope and not necessarily accurate. Why let folks own a car that goes over the speed limit? Far, far, far more people are killed each year by speeding and distracted drivers and we regulate that heavily. At what breed do you draw the line? Why not, instead, hold those responsible who have aggressive dogs, breed and harbor animal abuse and fighting, etc. The problem is not the dog, it’s the owner, very much like it is for guns, cars, or any other dangerous entity.\n\nEdit: For example. I have a dog that we rescued from an abuse situation. She is a larger dog breed. She is the sweetest most loving dog of any I’ve ever had, but she is not good with strangers and other dogs. We are exceptionally careful. We often walk her after dark, we walk clear on the other side of the road of others, have worked with an amazing behavioral trainer for six years and have made amazing progress and given her a wonderful life. We are also not blind that she could cause harm and do everything in our power to mitigate that risk. Folks just need to be responsible and make good decisions. A kid waking a dog that weighs as much as the kid is not one of those.\n\nEdit 2: I also fully understand that some dogs are just aggressive with tempers and wired that way. If they can’t be controlled and managed by someone with specialty training, then yes, they should likely be killed. But I do think the vast majority of domesticated animals are good natured and should not be banned based on how they are brought up by ill intentioned folks.",
"They don’t need to be in a secluded sub, more people feel this way than don’t. \n\nNot all pits are bad but is a risk you want to take? Most people say no.",
"It depends on level of training. My dogs do obedience shows. I swear I'm like 75% sure if I gave her a sit command she could be attacked and she wouldn't break her sit (I mean I'd want her to defend herself, but she's so well trained I do think it'd take her a good moment to break the sit). Part of the training required my dog to walk past a bunch of cut up hot dogs, a cat in a carrier, a bunch of playful dogs, a stranger calling her name and trying to throw a toy for her, and someone blowing a shrill whistle... the entire time she had to be off-lead (they had us muzzle our dogs for this just in case), glued to my side, following my every hand signal, and not even glance at a single one of the distractions (one of the steps literally included her having to lay down with her nose inches from the hotdog plate, me walking 50 feet away and calling her and her not moving an inch until she was called and moving past the food without touching it).\n\nI would have trusted a 6 year old to walk her off-lead without hesitation. But there are leash laws in my area and I'm not breaking the law to \"show off\" that she's behaved; that's just stupid. And I'd never let a kid walk her without me being right next to the kid so that in the event some jackass didn't bother to train their dog I could intervene. I sure as fuck am not gonna expect a 6 year old to be able to handle a dog attack, I barely trust myself to handle a dog attack and I'm not risking a child's safety that way. I have to be ready to grab the leash, tell the kid to get away from danger, and fend off a jackass's dog all in under 2 seconds; which means if a kid is holding the leash I have to be right there next to them, not 20 feet away.",
"If your dog tries to attack me, my dog, or anyone in my family it is probably going to end up fucking dead, and you will end up at least with your ass beat.\n\nDon't care what the breed is.",
"But.... They are saying they don't beat the dogs.",
"Pretty sure that's a woman, based on the skirt and their smaller frame.",
"I had an American Bulldog that was the sweetest dog in the world around people, but around other animals he turned into an assassin. I ended up getting bitten when I intervened during a fight with another dog. I tried to rehome him the the rescue but they knew about his issues before hand and would not take him back. \n\nWe ended up putting him down. It was a sad day but I couldn't risk him hurting or killing another animal or my child.",
"MEGA S-120 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072LP83RP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_fabc_WTQPCH7NE0EG54M3M931?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1",
"Just out of curiosity what is the dog's breed",
"Why not? I mean as police dogs of course, police should'nt have a pitbull that should stay at home.",
"No, there are some other breeds with similar dispositions.",
"I want to stop making pit bulls so there are not as many shelter dogs. And so there is not as much violence against pets and people. \n\nIt's the humane thing to do. But pit advocates aren't about doing the humane thing. There's no facebook likes in that.",
"Can confirm. Own teddy bear pit bull, have to keep him engaged because he's smart enough to get bored and find something new to entertain him without realizing it's causing harm (chewing up remotes or digging holes). \n\n\nWhen actively training or engaging him on a daily basis, you'd be hard pressed to find a better behaved dog. \n\n\nPit bulls are not inherently violent. To own a dog, you have to understand their temperaments. When treated, trained and kept correctly, they will be just as, if not better, behaved than most other dogs. This thread is filled with pit hate, and people seem to forget how common they are compared to any other species, and when you have that large of a spread you're going to have bad eggs, especially when it's a dog that doesn't know any better. Humans are the same exact way.",
"No worries.\n\nIf I can get one person in here to look up and question the methodology behind bite stats instead of falling for all the disingenuous alarmism (read: hate and thinly veiled racism) spewing out of the banpitbulls sub, it was worth my time.",
"Oh without a doubt.",
"My thought for future reference is, “If the dog never does this, then filing a report won’t matter because it will be a first and only offense. But if you’re lying that dog is going down”",
"Yep grabbing the attacker by the back legs and swing them they will let go and less chance of being bitten yourself. Never ever go for the dogs collar or neck you will get bit either by the attacker or your dog trying to defend itself. Most bull breeds are pretty impervious to pain when in attack mode they were bred that way to make them better fighters so kicking them or hitting them will just piss them off more, unless you have a decent weapon to hit them with eg golf clubs they are light enough not to be a hassle to carry and it can really do some damage when it connects",
"Not sure why you decided to needlessly be a dick about it when I didn't insult or attack you, but cool. You do you.\n\nMore importantly, you *do* understand that many pit bulls have their tails docked, in particular the ones more likely to be aggressive (thanks to their owner's training, or lack thereof), don't you?\n\nDo you get how that might be relevant?\n\nOr, since that's how we're being to one another now, or are you just too stupid to wrap your head around that idea?\n\n...\n\nNow is that really how you wanted this exchange to go? It's not what **I** was looking for. **I** wasn't looking to attack anyone, I was just chiming in with a pretty simply idea, no shots at you included.\n\nWeird that you'd prefer it to be all shitty and aggressive instead, but like I said, you do you, dude.",
"\"Paging Dr. Pibble!\"",
"Literally just this, I also don't think that cuddling with a bloodthirsty dog while it murders my family is a nice way to make it stop.",
"ESH - you both had dogs, in an area where people are obviously living, likely with children, smh",
"He's an idiot who believes that \"dominance training\" works. No one in the professional dog training community respects him. He's a television trainer who caters to people who don't actually know anything about training dogs but want to think that they do.",
"It's not because of their physical power, though. They're not even close to the most powerful bite force by breed, and there are lots of bigger dogs with more muscle mass that are just as dangerous *if aggressive*. I think the issue with pitbull genetics is the prey drive. They are relentless and they don't give a fuck if they're getting fucked up back. \n\nCouple that with the reputation for being vicious fighting dogs, the breed attracts not the best owners who don't take care of them, don't train them, don't take precautions for other people's safety, breed them in their backyards and dump them and all their puppies in a shelter, or on the street where they end up dead or in a shelter and it's a recipe for what we see today.",
"[Between 2005 and 2017, pits killed more people than every single other dog breed combined.](https://www.dogsbite.org/reports/13-years-us-dog-bite-fatalities-2005-2017-dogsbite.pdf) Is it really the case that pit bulls get bad owners more than every single other dog breed combined? Why do we not see new stories about a labradoodle mauling a toddler to death? In the report I linked, 284 people were killed between 05 and 17 by pit bulls. If we could’ve replaced those dogs with golden retrievers, do you think the number would have still been 284? And, this doesn’t account for the countless instances of pits mauling the owner who absolutely spoiled them. I’m not against pit bull. Truly. I just hate it when people refuse to acknowledge the increased risk. It’s dangerous to disregard the risk and pretend that pits are no more dangerous than a basset hound. It’s ok to like something and still acknowledge its shortcomings.",
"My husband and our dog got attacked by a loose pit bull on our street. Fortunately, it was wearing a collar so he grabbed it while the dog was biting our dog and basically choked the dog into submission. \n\nNow he always carries a telescoping baton on their walks. He's only hit one dog with it so far. Usually, they're so startled by the appearance of the baton out of nowhere that they back off. He even had to ward off a deer that was trying to stomp our dog once.",
"Bred to fight bulls and bears actually.",
"If you own a pitbull, you're a piece of shit.",
"It's actually between 70-80%. Of humans killed by dogs, 69% are confirmed pit bulls. Another 13% are unidentified, but it's likely that 2/3 of those are also pitbulls or pit mixes. Young children are overrepresented in their kills at about 40-45%.\n\nSome more pitbull facts: of people seeking medical attention for a dog bite, 1/3 will have been bitten by a pitbull. If it's a child it's 1/2. If you're bitten by a pit bull, you're 5x more likely to receive the highest level of billable care and 6x more likely to require surgery. Pitbulls are also 66% more likely than other breeds to bite in multiple locations.\n\nPit bulls were never nanny dogs. They were bred to be put into a pit with a Bull and fight to the death. As such, aggression, agility, and bite strength were selectively bred for over 500 years. Aggression is a heritable trait. It's not the mythical \"bad owner\".\n\nPitbulls are not the best tempered dogs. That's a lie based on a \"test\" that A) is not intended for comparison among breeds B) was originally created to be a test to find dogs suitable for shultzhund (bite work) and C) administered by pitbull enthusiasts with no oversight who are looking for talking points. Pay $30, and you get to tell people you have a good boi.\n\nTo round out the list of nonsense, they're not hunting dogs, theyre not ratting dogs, they're not overrepresented or 20% of the dog population (it's about 5.5%), they're not misidentifed and even if they were, they maul at such overwhelming rates that even if 1/2 we're misidentifed they'd STILL be the worst offenders, and they haven't been bred to be \"non human aggressive\".\n\nPointers point, retrievers retrieve, shepherds herd, and pit bulls kill.",
"for anyone wondering penguin is what as know as a pitnutter and spends a bit of time on pro-pitt subs",
"We have had issues with loose dogs attacking our goats and chickens to the point where we had to buy a shotgun just for pest control. It sucks to have to take their lives but it’s theirs or our livestock’s. Most of the time they’re not even stray or abandoned. Just off-leash.",
"They do need to break their dog of that attack instinct tho. By any means necessary.",
"\"Pitbull attacking for no reason\"\n\nAs if pitbulls needed a reason to attack other living beings.\n\nEuthanize them all.",
"Solid advice",
"It is not surprising that the attacker dog was a poodle but poodles should be banned. I know their owners think they are so cute and lovable but generally these type of folks crave the attention owning these killer dogs elicit.",
"Just a heads up OP has a history filled with anti-pitbull posts lol. I have no opinion on the matter, just want to point out that OP is a weird reddit dude with an agenda. Vote away",
"Friend’s fiancé had a chihuahua, it weighed about 4-5 pounds I’d say. I’d never met one before and I was disturbed. It felt incredibly delicate, its head was like an eggshell, it could not jump on or off the couch. It was pitiful and she didn’t seem bothered that she’d paid thousands of dollars for someone to breed a dog that way. That dog was a total psycho too. It would run up to bite you and she’d laugh and say “well it doesn’t hurt does it?”",
"> in this litter\n\nWhat breed?",
"I'd straight beat the shit out of that dog. Not my responsibility for what happens to your dog and the recklessness you have. Straight kick, punch and peoples elbow that shit.",
"If a dog looks like a pit bull, it acts like a pit bull. You can play semantics about \"it's not a real breed\", but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. The most aggressive dogs I've ever encountered are \"pitbulls\". Yes. Chihuahuas can be bitey, but they might draw a little blood, not rip my daughter's throat out.",
"Fake ass service dogs. Nobody is fooled. Anyone can buy the vest but buying the training is a bit harder.",
"It's genetics, not owners.",
"It's a circle fully enclosed within the other. Because no one should have a pitbull.",
"Major yikes in this comment section...\n\nYa'll are leaning pretty heavily into killing off dog breeds based on anecdotes online.",
"Police would allow them to horrifically maim and maul people just like they do now. Eg; st Louis.",
"> That's shit owner regardless of what you think they look like.\n\nhttps://www.simplypsychology.org/fundamental-attribution.html",
"I've had dogs, and been around dogs my whole life, I've never been attacked by a dog, but I've had to stop dog fights. Most of the time I've had to step in because unfortunately in these kind of situations people freeze up and aren't ever really sure what to do. It helped that I knew the dogs, but honestly I've had more issue trying to stop smaller dogs than the big ones.",
"Yeah, I love when people try and tell me about all the other dogs that are more aggressive. Ok sure, but when a weenie dog loses it's temper people don't die. It's the intersection of aggression *and capability* is what makes them so dangerous.",
"They were bred to okay their master to the death. Of course they're going to be nice to the person that owns them.",
"Pointers point, shepherds herd, retrievers retrieve and pitbulls kill.",
"You’re disturbed",
"Pitbulls have bred-for inherent traits to 1) become excited by pain and 2) respond to excitement with aggression.\n\nIt's called \"gameness.\"",
"Majority of pitbulls don't attack. And majority of attacks don't lead to death.\n\nRegardless, dogs need constant training because at the end of the day they're still an animal with an animal brain.\n\nThere are dozens of breeds who have the same capability as a pitbull for harm.",
"Realize that all breeds of dogs were bred for a specific purpose by humans, usually behavior or appearance. If you think pits were bred for their appearance, you are delusional.",
"Oh look, a violent pitbull being a violent pitbull. Imagine that.",
"> If a pit latched onto my CHILD let alone my dog I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot it.\n\nThis implies that you value your dog more than your child.\n\nEdit: Not sure why people are downvoting. \"I wouldn't give him a [thing of low value], let alone my [thing of high value]\" is how this expression works.\n\nhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/let%20alone",
"A pitbull. What a surprise. Dont let r/velvethippos see this.",
"That puntable little shit doesn’t require anything close to a pistol. Take ownership of the situation. If you step up the dog will have no choice but to back down.",
"Fist. Had a typo and autocorrect tried it’s best.",
"I mean…there is that video we just watched.",
"> but never considered that he's just an idiot \n\nThat's hanlon's razor.",
"> it’s best to drop your leash so your animal can properly defend itself\n\nMy concern with this is what if they run away too fast for me to help? I'm not saying one way or another, but this is my fear.",
"You should start just putting down the pits - they are overbred and a nuisance",
"I prefer [this statement](https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls) on the matter as it doesn't dilute that aggressive behaviors are bred and genetically passed on. While they go on to say that interbreeding has resulted in a state where dog aggression can appear in any breed, it (along with my anecdotal experience of having my child attacked by a pit) doesn't discount in my mind that pit bulls genetic breeding history makes them more dangerous than many other breeds. While I don't hold them personally responsible, they are too dangerous to \"hope\" that their owners will properly keep them trained.\n\nIf you support gun laws, then you should probably support dog safety laws (if not by breed, then at the very least for animals in excess of 30+ lbs).",
"It's an understandable reaction.",
"Should have called the ATF, they would have taken care of it",
"Before people say this is the fault of bad owners... all pitbull owners are 'bad owners' for the fact that they have a pitbull and in most cases they're plain sociopaths.\n\nThe breed is banned where I am in Ontario. Recently there was a massive online campaign led by a Toronto family trying to prove their obviously pitbull dog wasn't a pitbull but an \"American Bully\" after it was confiscated for getting loose about a month ago. However, they were refusing DNA testing which could have easily ended any arguments, but they knew they had an illegal breed so they had to drum up online support instead. In the end the Toronto animal services was pressured from ignorant online comments to release the dog on Nov. 1st and reunite the family with 'their baby'.\n\nOntario's own premier, Doug Ford reached out to the family to let them know Ontario will be changing its anti-pitbull legislation within 120 days and loosening the restrictions.\n\n[One week later (just yesterday) that same pitbull mauled a 13 year old boy.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/blu-dog-attack-ontario-pit-bull-1.6241190)",
"Statistics are not anecdotes. Pits kill and seriously injure more people than all other breeds **combined**. \n\nThey also kill an estimated 40,000 pets each year. Not making more pits is the humane thing to do.",
"There’s always always two thing to consider when it comes to owning a dog. How strong that dogs drive is, and if the potential owner can provide the needs for that drive.",
"“It’s not the breed it’s the owners” -and other jokes we like to tell ourselves",
"Looks like he was jogging and just not expecting the dog to bolt. Was definitely on a leash. Hard to say this was really neglectful just unfortunate laps in vigilance. Aggression toward other dogs is impossible to train out of some dogs. The pit could have easily fucked up that guy but avoided him so probably human friendly.",
"Dog bite laws. Usually one and done. You get one bite then you pay the price.",
"garbage dogs for garbage people.",
"For over a century for dog fighting, but before they were being raised for hundreds of years to maul cattle.\n\nEuthanize them all.",
"What breed was that dog? American pitbull terrier? Staffordshire terrier? American bulldog? American bully? Can you even tell?",
"Let it go?\n\nDo you have any idea how many people and pets are victims of pits every day?",
"Nope, it's as simple as taking the number of deaths by pibble attacks and dividing it by the number of pibble attacks to get the liklihood that, if attacked by a pibble, you die. This \"lethality\" metric is far and away higher for pibbles than any other breed.\n\nIt's absolutely still the owner's fault when they *do* attack, but they are also absolutely bred for bloodsport and are much more likely to kill in the event they do attack.",
"Exact scenario happened to me when I was walking my grandmas Pomeranian and a dog broke through the fence across the street and killed my grandma’s dog in front of me. Had major PTSD afterwards. Couldn’t even walk my own dog at home. Then the police weren’t going to make them put the dog down because “it didn’t harm a human”.",
"“you were a bad owner” -pitbull apologists",
"https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-88793-5",
"It’s a fine line to say the least. Not all pits are bad. Not all other dogs are good. Pits seem to be disproportionately aggressive, and therefore need really good responsible owners. These guys clearly weren’t.",
"In other articles they say \"American pit bull\", \"American bulldog\", and \"pitbull-Staffordshire bull terrier-type\". Going off eyewitness accounts and statistical probability, it shouldn't surprise anyone if it's a pit bull.",
"I sure didn't. My wife is black, as is my son. I pointed out that the abhorrent argument being used by the above poster is identical to a racist argument. Even uses the exact same (accurate) statistics without the necessary context to actually understand said statistics.",
"I think it would be good if owning a pitbull type dog would be treated similar to owning a tiger or lion. Just apply the same laws as owning one of these animals with pitbulls.",
"Interesting argument and point. I do support gun laws, but I support them in the fact of “common sense” gun laws. I am not in favor of outlawing, but am in favor of universal background checks and court imposed ownership restrictions. I’m also a firm believer in stand your ground or castle doctrine. I think pet/animal management laws are adequate overall and leash laws are the primary means of driving that. \n\nThe issue is that people don’t see dogs as the same level of scrutiny and danger they do firearms or other items. My neighbor lets her damn dog run rampant all over the place. Leash laws exist and her husbands a cop, but it just doesn’t apply to them apparently. \n\nIf folks followed the laws and did what they were supposed to, it would significantly reduce the number of events that occur, but so many people think it won’t happen to them or apply to them. Enforcement of pet related laws would also make a big change.\n\nFor example. Oh I left my gun out and someone got shot. Jail time for me. Oh I let my dog out and someone got hurt? $200 fine.",
"You didn't give me a source. You told me to check out an incredibly hateful and prejudiced subreddit that wants to literally kill off any dog that sort of looks like a pitbull. That subbreddit is full of people that make PETA look family friendly.",
"They kill 40,000 pets each year. They also kill and seriously injure more people than all other breeds combined.\n\nThat's a lot of slipping and lost grips.",
"People that let their dogs run free like that suck.",
"Yeah seriously, all I read from that was “we slapped the dog as part of our training regimen.”\n\nWelp, now you’ve got injured owners, a dead dog and a *surprised pikachu face*",
"Be prepared for the down voting, I said the same thing and basically got down voted in oblivion for it but its true. Dogs have breed traits, retrievers retrieve pointers point border collies will round things up all naturally they were bred for those traits and fighting dogs were bred to be aggressive to other animals.its the way it is and it takes a good owner to understand this and train them and always always watch them",
"I love dogs, but I would dash a dog's head against the pavement without hesitation if it attacked me or my pet. Dog attacks are a deathmatch IMHO. When there's a high chance you or your pet could be permanently disfigured or even killed, it's open season. Gouge its eyes out if you have to. Yeet it into power lines.",
"Cool, how about we do this the logical way and show me where your Statiscally presumptions are coming from? \n\n\nHere's an article: [https://pethelpful.com/dogs/10-Most-Aggressive-Dog-Breeds-Temperament-Ratings-and-Information](https://pethelpful.com/dogs/10-Most-Aggressive-Dog-Breeds-Temperament-Ratings-and-Information) \n\n\nThat's using the information available from: [https://atts.org/breed-statistics/](https://atts.org/breed-statistics/)",
"I am fucking irate. Dumb cunt just standing there watching it happen. Take your dog to training and learn to hold the leash.",
"Go ! Bwaaah !",
"I did, we had a conversation about it. Thankfully she's able to understand that comparing two racist arguments is not the same thing as making a racist argument. Also, she loves our pit and thinks you pit haters are pieces of shit.",
"Anyone with a brain would know that shitty people choosing large breeds that need a lot of exercise result in dog attacks. It's no surprise that the most negligent owners choose big powerful dogs. Also there are multiple breeds considered \"pitbull-type\" and so many that \"look\" like pitbulls are mixed. Where are these \"aggressive genes\" you people like to talk about so much? You think on the surface too much instead of using some extra brain cells to look into things.",
"No, he just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Legally, it's not a bite if it doesn't break the skin, and while they can try to open a dangerous dog investigation, it's significantly harder to actually make any progress on without a legally defined bite.\n\nAnd no, we can't do anything if we don't see the animal out, because the majority of the calls we take are neighbor disputes where someone is lying. We *can* act on video or camera evidence, but not \"Oh but I just said so.\"\n\nI worked animal control, and we were constantly stuck between a rock and a hard place because citizens always assume we're either out to kill dogs for fun or we're lazy and do nothing, but in reality we're constantly understaffed (on a good day we'd have 3 officers for a 500+mi² city that saw literally an average of 120 calls per day) and caught in a ton of red tape.",
"Stopped clock. Sorry. I hate that expression. A broken clock can always be wrong. A STOPPED clock is right 2 times a day. I think it fits with the governor of Texas. I am a born Texan. This is a good thing he has done. Don’t ask me about his track record, please, I’m telling’ ya’….\n\nMy God. Y’all are stupid. A clock or watch can be slow or fast and ALWAYS be wrong. But, I don’t think this audience is intelligent enough to realize that. Let the downvotes roll. Y’all are also the idiots who know someone who was electrocuted and are alive. It ain’t possible. Electrocution is the end of the life. EXECUTION is the same. Dead. I don’t expect anything but the least from here. LET IT ROLL!!",
">Black people, last I checked, were not.\n\nActually, African Americans (not black people, specifically African Americans) were. Perhaps you've heard of Slavery?",
"Name another breed as capable or as genetically inclined to cause harm\n\nI'll also won't make you find one that is so easily attainable too because anyone can adopt a pitbull for next to nothing since our animal shelters are filled with them. \n\nYou take 10 random large breeds of dogs and let them grow up with similar amounts of training, and the pit will be the most dangerous. \n\nI don't know the percentage of dogs that get constant training past sit and stay but it must be down in the very low single digits.",
"Go pee in your mouth.",
"It’s easy to place judgement when you where not is the situation. She was my neighbor, her kid was the same age as my twins, and even though the dog barked at me when I was mowing or whatever, I had never personally seen or heard of it attacking anyone. \n\nIn hindsight, you are absolutely right. I should have called animal control on the spot. 1 second could have made this a much different and more tragic story. But in the moment, under those circumstances, I made a judgment call. \n\nToday we laugh about it. My son ended up naming his scar Jerry. The reason I mentioned it is so others can learn from my mistake. If a pet attacks you or anyone else, you should absolutely report it. As others have said, if it’s a first offense it won’t matter. If it’s not, then it falls on the owner for not properly training and controlling their pet.",
"You’ve convinced me to kill my dog. Maybe you can do it for me.",
"Man I don't know if it's a good idea to put your face so close to an aggressive biting dog. Maybe if it had a collar on and you could use that to choke it out but im 1000% not putting my throat and face in that fight, that's how you die instead of your dog.",
"My neighbors two mixed Pitbulls are like this. They don't take them on walks, they just let them out in the fenced in backyard and the dogs bark aggressively for 20 - 30 minutes at everything in sight (passing cars, squirrels, planes...)\n\nHave contemplated complaining about the excessive barking to the village but don't want it coming back to me. Those dog don't seem safe if they got out of the yard since everything seems to be a \"threat\" to them and they're not socialized at all. \n\nSome people should not own dogs at all.",
"“Everything is direct” is a terrible approach.",
"TBH the fact that you thought nothing of it probably saved your ass. Dogs like that sense everything. I've had no fear around some i barely knew or never knew and they are fine whereas people's longtime friends get bit because they were scared and acting scared.",
"Hey, I had this exact experience. Fuck pitbulls.",
"Working in veterinary it is mostly little dogs and German Shepherds that are the worst. Actually you rarely see a German Shepherd without a caution on their account. Not one breed can be labeled aggressive by nature, just a number of people out there shouldn't be owning dogs.",
"Let me guess, you are one of those morons that have a pitbull. I hope you have insurance for when that monster kills a child.",
"I think the \"it's all in how you raise\" crowd fails to understand is that a dog that you need to be as vigilant about training as you would caring for a loaded firearm simply do not make good pets and shouldn't be as readily available to just anyone who wants one.\n\nYes, guns are not dangerous if you follow proper gun safety\n\nYes, skydiving is relatively risk free if you take the proper preparation and precautions\n\nand Yes, pit bulls can be good pets if you are properly educated and prepared to train and reinforce good behaviors with them, but like the other examples, not everyone (I'd argue *most* everyone) is equipped to provide that level of training and care to the animals.",
"Well if that’s how we are judging classifying dogs, we got to throw in golden retrievers onto that list too. I fostered one for about 4 months, during that period he either fully attacked my dog or tried to. Iv fostered 5 pitbulls and so far none has ever tried to attack either my dog or other dogs.\n\nWe can also add huskies to the mix, my first dog was a husky and she was super nice but when she met a dog she instantly went into murder mode and would lunge for the neck and if she got ahold of them she would either seriously injure or kill the dog.\n\nThere are bad dogs out there, but a vast majority of a dogs behavior is based on training and socialization of the dog. Iv fostered nearly 20 dogs and the “worst” dogs have been the preferred breeds. The Golden I had was able to turn things around and now lives a great life and most of his poor behaviors have been trained out of him. The only reason he was with more months was so we could work on his behavior and get him to a healthy place. But it doesn’t take much for them to fall back into those bad behaviors.\n\nThere are bad dogs out there, horrible breeding practices have led to very bad dogs. But those traits appear in so many breeds. Pitbulls are very often owned by bad owners because they are either cheap or free, they often fill the shelters and most shelters do little to no research on anyone looking to adopt a dog. They are large and well built dogs that if trained poorly and not socialized correctly they can turn into a dangerous animal. Unfortunately dogs are extremely easy to obtain and there are very few laws in place that protect the dogs or the people around them until it is to late. Yes pitbulls can be dangerous but so can any other breed, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just flat out lying.",
"Is this Keith Olberman commenting here?! Or just an ugly, overweight guy who lacks discipline?",
"They always act like this so that it doesn’t seem like there was anything they could have done. Last month I was walking my one year old doodle pup (who is super sweet but kind of a baby). We were on our neighborhood trail and we ran into a couple I have never seen before. They had two dogs: one of which was a lab who was going insane growling at us and the other was a smaller cattle dog who was silent. The lady was assuring me the crazy, aggressive lab just wanted to play, but I’m like “uhhh I’m good…” We pass and I hear something following us. It’s actually the quiet cattle dog and not the lab. I realize he’s off his leash somehow and is going for my dog, and before I can react, he lunges at my dog who starts yelping. Luckily she was not hurt in the slightest, but I had no idea at the time. I kick the dog in the face to back it up as it tries to bite my dog a second time, and the lady once again tries sticking up for it, yelling at me “he won’t hurt you!” I’m like “uh, it JUST bit my dog.”\n\nRight after that, the guy puts his hand on my back and pushes me forward. I thought he literally pushed me for kicking his dog, but it was actually because he was chasing their dog and he slid into me lol. I was so mad either way. They did not act like their dogs were problematic at all. One was clearly trying to attack us and she said he wanted to “play” and the other literally went after my dog the second it got off its leash, to which the girl tries to assure me that he won’t hurt ME.",
"Amen man. There are just some traits that are inherent in the breed. A lot of people are like oh my pit is the best, well, is it purebred? Maybe some of that mixed lab you got in there mellowed it the fuck out?",
"No it's called genetics. Why do certain hunting dogs point or some dogs herd instinctively. Sadly humans have changed bully bread genetics to be aggressive and violent. This also attracts the bad dog owners.",
"Well I’m sorry",
"And yet the dogs listen?",
"Ah yes. Typical \"pitbull\" hater who hates likes 4 different breeds and any mixes that look like a \"pitbull\" because of some magical aggressive genes that are somehow linked to its physical appearance.",
"That's actually not what pit bulls were bred for. They were bred for a trait called \"game\". As a trait it's an willingness to push through pain and not stop. \n\nNow, how much of this really makes it in to most dogs, especially today where people aren't careful about how they breed dogs at all in most cases, is up for debate. People rarely breed specifically for game or aggression as dog fighting is illegal in most parts of the world. These traits also generally are a mix of instinct (genetics) and conditioning. You can have a dog from the best hunting stock in the world - it will still only have a vague idea of what to do without any training.",
"Meh, it's too expensive these days, around here at least. The nutjobs are buying so much that prices were outrageous last I checked. Maybe someday when people stop being so scared of liberals taking their guns, or of some kind of revolution the prices will go back down to reasonable rates lol.",
"And people don't understand until some shit like this happens to them. These dogs have encoded in their DNA some tribal rage shit that could just go off regardless of how well you train them.",
"Happened to me this summer, have various scars in my hand because of the pit Bull. Couldn’t even sue just live with these ugly ass scars on my hand",
"To give you an idea of the difference between a well trained pit and a terribly trained pit from a single encounter. When my pit was just over a year old i was walking her when a neighbor's pit slipped it's collar and charged us. I immediately knew there was no way i could get my own pit high enough off the ground to avoid the attack so I got in the middle of the attack and defended my dog. She was much bigger but she was also too sweet to hurt a fly so i was scared she'd be killed or horriblly maimed before she would fight back. So i get the smaller pit in a chokehold and am squeezing down on it's windpipe trying to keep it from moving. The second i had the situation under control my dog sat beside me while their dog continued to thrash about. Thankfully it happened in front of my house so I had my family bring my girl in but had i been alone i was 100% prepared to crush that pits windpipe or guage it's eyes or anything to cause it enough pain to stop, and this is coming from someone who cried when she accidentally killed a mouse.",
"I don’t get why everyone will accept that different breeds have personalities (X breed is hard to train, Y is very sociable, Z isn’t very smart, etc) but as soon as you imply one might be prone to being violent some people go NO IT’S ALL ABOUT HOW YOU TRAIN THEM",
">\t69% are confirmed pit bulls\n\nConfirmed by who? A DNA test? A veterinarian?",
"Interesting enough after doing some googling it turns out that they are considered only average on the aggression scale towards humans and high aggression on the scale towards other dogs.",
"And again, if you knew English you would see my comment about bad owners neglecting pitbull-types? Also which of the 4 breeds have these mysterious aggressive genes exactly? All 4? What about mixed breeds? If you cross a golden retriever with a dog that \"kinda looks pitbull-ish\" is that dog aggressive? Lmao.",
"I see you have met a pit-mommy.",
"Yeah I just said the reason. Not too smart are you?",
"This is why I wanted a bigger dog that could at least hold its own if anything happens.\n\nmy GSD is 10 months old and 85-90 lbs... the vet thinks he will end up 110-120.\n\nHe's a great dog and I walk him multiple times a day.... we've had numerous unleashed unsupervised dogs run up on us.\n\nThey run off when he barks and I yell at them, but I couldn't imagine how shitty it would be to watch your dog get killed in front of you by a neglectful owner. If one ever actually attacked I think we could fight it off together.",
"> They apologized a lot and INSISTED their dog is never like this.\n\nThey always do. Did they also blame you for letting your dog get to close?",
">You attack my dog, you attack my family.\n\nRead that in Vin Diesels voice for some reason lol",
"/r/SelfAwarewolves",
"Lol Jesus Christ. Yeah, I have a pit. Let me take three guesses about you- 1)You’re white 2) you hate yourself and 3) you’re out of shape.",
"Numbers are meaningless lmao. Keep showing your stupidity though.",
"Here’s my anecdotal piece; worked in a vet clinic for 7+ years. We saw countless dogs come in due to being in a dog fight. So many owners would come screaming in about a pitbull attacking their dog. The dog in question would arrive and it was never a “pitbull”. We’d see shepherd mixes, labs, boxers, bulldogs… It made me think people don’t really know dog breeds and will just ignorantly blurt out pitbull cause they assume any large aggressive dog is a pitbull. We literally had a couple tell us a pitbull attacked their dog and it ended up being a fucking standard poodle mix. \n\nNot saying pitbulls can’t be aggressive or cause damage, they absolutely do/can, but so can ANY large breed of dog. There should be regulations for owning any breed of dog (ie ensuring they are neutered/spayed, licensed etc..)",
"So, did you call the police after the new information? Or, were you like - well, I told her I wouldn’t so I can’t.",
"But guys...PITTIES /s. It really depends on the owner of the dog. If the owner does not train the dog the dog will be a dog with natural instinct to kill.",
"Says commenter on",
"Prices have come down quite a bit actually. If you had a budget in mind I could suggest something.",
"Well my dog got attacked by 2 German Shepards. So they're a breed prone to similar issues.\n\nBelgian malinois also have the ability to inflict extreme harm. Similar to a Shepard they are police K9 dogs. \n\nMoving on, Rhodesian Ridgebacks literally hunt lions. They can inflict tons of pain.\n\nThe point is a lot of breeds have the ability to inflict pain if not properly trained.\n\nIf you think most owners don't don't some form of constant training you are misinformed. \n\nIf you personally don't constantly train your dog you are a shitty owner and should relinquish your dog to someone who cares about proper training.",
"I would highly advise grabbing the collar of any dog attacking yours and twisting. It doesn't hurt them much but it can choke them enough to prevent them biting or make them let your dog go, dogs can be amazingly resilient to being hit when they are 'in the zone'.",
"Only to those like you who just fail so damn hard at using their brains but whatever you say friend",
"Lol. I’ve owned and bred giant breeds. You have no idea what you’re talking about. My dogs are all 150lbs plus. Please stfu. You never release control of your dog unless another human is being hurt that isn’t your dog. It will compound the problem. Lol, fuck.",
"How about people don’t own murder animals. Similar reason why domesticating wild cats like tigers and leopards is never a good idea. You can think it’s trained all you want but the killing instinct never leaves the animal.",
"Not in my neck of the woods. $150 filing fee, lost time from work, etc.\n\nMy dog wasn't hurt bad and they got a good ticket. I forgot they also had to pay an impound fee with the county animal services for a couple days of boarding plus since they couldn't prove either dogs were vaccinated or licensed it cost them even more on top of that. If I had to venture a guess I'll bet the whole ordeal cost them at least $700. I'm good with that.",
"I actually feel sorry for you.",
"Pitbulls are the only large and powerful dogs? And if the dog wasn't acting aggressive when it killed a kid, that'd be odd.\n\nAgain, could easily be a pitbull but don't talk like it's a fact if it isn't.",
"What a nonsensical comment. I guess that's the best you can do considering your parents are your cousins.",
"I work in the service industry and when ever I’m at a homeowners home on a job and they tell me their dog won’t bite. I always tell them they have never bit YOU!",
"Children and stitches.",
"Wow, what a compelling anecdote. You should adapt it into a novella.",
"....easier to walk around everywhere with than a giant ass gun or many?",
">blacks are responsible for well over half the fatal attacks in the country, far beyond their proportion of the black population. Not every black is a killer but you're more likely to be killed by a black than any other race. They're also the most likely breed to cause severe injury",
"Well... Yea. Pits were literally bred to kill things in a pit. And that's all. It's in their genes the same as retrieving is for retrievers or herding is for herding dogs.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull#History\n\nTypical pit nutter who thinks pits stop being pits when they do something bad.",
"you are right it's 73% and 99% of fatalities - pit nutter",
">They apologized a lot and INSISTED their dog is never like this.\n\nI was at a rugby game when I was a kid literally 100s of people and kids around. \n\nA dog that I had never seen before broke off its lead ran thought ~50 other people and attacked me. \n\n\nLike fuck this one kid in particularly.\n\n\n20 min later it did the exact same thing again.",
"My dog was a puppy and Boston actually tore her whole face up. My point wasn't that though my point was the lasting damage that this did to my animal that she in turn unfortunately gave to other dogs. But thanks for your concern and contribution to the conversation. \n\nIf you can't use your brain I suggest your don't use your mouth (or thumbs in this case)",
"Every animal control department is a different agency with different people. Mileage will vary greatly.",
"I think the problem all boils down to we need numbers. I feel like no research has gone into finding out how much of the Pitbull's personality is nature VS nurture.\n\nSo when someone has a bad experience (with good owners) they are very much more to say they're just completely aggressive, here's the proof...\n\nWhen someone knows owners with kind dogs, they're much more likely to go \"well based on my experience they're nice. It's the owner\"\n\nIn reality it's just somewhere in the middle. It's hard to figure out how much is owner and how much is genetics. I'm gonna guess a lot is owners, but there's still a part that is genetics. But maybe we'll never know for sure.",
"i think the circle is even bigger, LESS PEOPLE DESERVE DOGS.... people do not know how to properly train or take care of them in general, they become more of a nuisance than fuckin humans that arent properly raised more often because they learn NOTHING other than the stupidity of their owners.\n\nno the yippy little chihuahua or terrier isnt gonna rip some kids throat (well... less likely) but they sure as fuck arent being trained, the amount of tiny ass dogs that have come running at me acting like im a fucking threat is retarded and these fucking \"dog people\" think its acceptable to bring them FUCKING EVERYWHERE? i hate dog people and they are ruining dogs for me",
"situation like this and I'm pretending I'm the opening kickoff for the superbowl. \n\nI'm trying to shatter ribs, not crack them.",
"My sister had taken in a Chihuahua along with her Chow. The two were best friends. Anyways, someone asked my sister to take in their Pitbull, which my sister figured, what the hell. Fast forward about two weeks, my sister heard a yelp and went outside to go check it out. The pitbull met my sister and the door and started growing, so my sister backed away and called her friend for help. The pitbull killed the chihuahua and all that was left was a leg bone by the time they got to it. The pit was an inside dog and treated very well.",
"Have you?",
"Not sure where these numbers are coming from but they definitely sound made up. \n\nHow are they \"confirming\" the breed? Are all these dogs running around with their AKC papers or something? Who is distinguishing between an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Cane Corso, Presa Canario, American Bulldog, Doberman Pinscher, Rottweiler, etc?\n\nBull dogs and terriers were mixed to start forming the dog we now call a pit bull in the late 1800s in England, so not sure where this 500 years of breeding came from. \n\nI don't doubt these numbers are rooted in truth but to talk to confidently and with such precision just sounds off.",
"*Ability* to cause harm and *proclivity* to cause harm are two very different things. You listed dogs that are capable of similar harm, but not as likely to inflict it.",
"Here’s a idea I just thought of and I’m pretty sure I’m the only one who’s thought of it…..keep your fucking dogs on a leash!",
"And yet you think all 4 \"pitbull\" breeds have been exclusively bred for their aggressive behavior up until today. Right. Tell me you don't know how genetics work without telling me you don't know how genetics work.\n\nhttps://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls",
"I know I'll probably get downvoted for this considering the narrative happening in the comments so far and the title of the post, but I wouldn't say this was completely negligent.\n\nIf you watch the video closely, you can see that the aggressive dog has a leash. It's hard to make out because of the low resolution as the two dogs are jumping around at each other but in a few shots you can see it dangling from the collar.\n\nIf you back up the video and watch prior, you can see the owner and the dog appear to be jogging together on the other side of the street and at the moment the dog bolts to cross over the owner falls over. This is typical of a dog unexpectedly overpowering their owner while leashed.\n\nIt's not to say that the dog couldn't have been better trained. From my perspective though, it was probably reacting in a protective manner as part of their \"pack\", dog and master jogging together, and its owner was just as surprised when they face planted into the sidewalk.\n\nAt the end of the day, the owner of the aggressive dog is still responsible for what happened. To say they were negligent is reaching, though. If anything, they aren't capable of owning this breed of dog and should probably have looked at getting something else.",
"This video almost matches a scene I went through two weeks ago camping in Australia where dogs were allowed. \n\nMy ex guide Dog Pup (who I raised and trained) was on a lead with me, getting back to camp and a staffy broke loose of it's lead and collar where it was tethered at another camp. \n\n\nLittle fucker was a 1/3rd of the size of my large Black Lab but came screaming in and just went for his throat and face. I've always talked about what I would do in the situation but that went out of the window very quickly. I had steel toe cap boots on and only after did I even think about how I should have booted the dog. I was just scrambling to get away from the thing. It's owner came racing down the hill and eventually managed to jump on it like it was a landmine (no collar to grab) and my boys lead was all caught up choking him in their melee plus also bringing his head close to the gnashing jaws. I got up having been body checked by him and his dog and scrambled away to safety. \n\nAnd the lunatic started bringing his dog towards us while i was checking my dog over for any injuries saying \"she's friendly. Honestly she's fine, she might be good if they just meet.\" \n\n\nTold him twice to get the fuck away from me and take his mental dog with him. I wasn't up for testing that out on the strength of what I'd just seen! \n\nThat shook me up for a few hours. My pup seemed fine 10 mins later. Thank god he wasn't hurt.",
"Reading between the lines of \"never did we slap for no reason\" signals to me \"we did slap when there was a reason\". You can read it in your own way, but that's my interpretation (and a lot of others here). \n\nPositive reinforcement always has better outcomes, whether it's in people or animals. When a dog pees on your floor, you don't rub its nose in it. Instead, you give it a treat / some love when it pees outside. You can apply that same methodology to any part of dog training, whether it is training them to stay in their crate, how they react to other animals on walks, or anything else.",
"Ah, so you're going with the \"misidentifed\" nonsense. Despite what pit nutters will tell you, we don't need DNA tests to know what a pitbull is, though in most cases it's definitive through self reporting, DNA, or professional assessment. And again, even if they were massively misidentified, which again, they are absolutely not, they'd still be the worst breed by a lot. Try again sparky.",
"It varies by state. In Minnesota your dog counts as your property, so protecting your dog is the same as protecting your ground. Learned that in firearm safety training. \n\nBut yeah it has to be while the other dog is attacking",
"A couple of week back I was taking a walk and happen to be passing next to this kid, probably 12 or 13, holding this big dog on the leash while talking to his mom at the top of a flight of stairs. I pass next to him and the dog, only now noticing me and perhaps startled, jumps towards me and bites my thigh, thankfully only catching pant but putting a pretty sizeable rip in there. I was so glad I didn't have my 4mo old dacshund with me, or she might have been seriously injured. The mother scolded the boy for not paying attention and apologized profusely... but I'm just like, woman don't let a child walk a dog with the same body weight as them lol\n\nSome people shouldn't have dogs just like some people shouldn't have kids.",
"If I own nearly any other common breed of dog and don't train them, the consequence is a jumpy, barking mess. If I don't train a Pit I end up with a dangerous weapon. Of course with training they can be wonderful dogs - but they *require* training to be safe while that's the default setting for other popular breed.",
"I feel this so intensely. I live in a big city near a dog park so pretty much wherever I take my dog out for a stroll to, we are in danger of coming across another dog. \n\nNow I’m training my dog and he’s learning! We’ve made a lot of progress in the last year but we still don’t like to pass dogs on the same sidewalk - often I’ll just cross the street to the other sidewalk and we can get on dandy. But the number of overly-friendly dog owners taking their pet to the park unleashed drives me mad. And the number of them who would like to introduce dogs without even asking first??? You’re kidding me. \n\nIt’s frustrating when people don’t realize that my dogs safety relies on them respecting our space. I’ve had off leash dogs try to scramble with my rather large and rather strong dog and I’ve been responsible for defending somebody else’s dog from mine - my biggest fear is that my dog will be punished because somebody else couldn’t be bothered to care for their own dog.",
"Yeah, visual breed identification isn’t reliable:\n\n“Four Florida shelters - Jacksonville Animal Care and Protective Services, the Jacksonville Humane Society, Marion County Animal Services, and Tallahassee Animal Services - participated in the study. Four staff members at each of the four shelters indicated what breed(s) they thought 30 dogs were, for a total of 16 observers and 120 dogs.\n\nOf those 120 dogs, 55 were identified as \"pit bulls\" by shelter staff, but only 25 were identified as pit bulls by DNA analysis.\n\nAdditionally, the staff missed identifying 20% of the dogs who were pit bulls by DNA analysis, ***while only 8% of the \"true\" pit bulls were identified by all staff members***.”\n\nhttps://www.maddiesfund.org/incorrect-breed-identification.html\n\nFull study:\n\nhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109002331500310X\n\nNow if shelter workers are that bad at it think about how much worse the average person is.",
"This is good advice I think. I saw my neighbor wailing on her dogs skull with a wooden baseball bat because he wouldn’t let go of her other older dog. Blood everywhere. He only stopped when I ran over and cut off the attacker’s air supply.",
"Sorry, pitbulls are aggressive dogs with powerful jaws. They just are, it's their nature. If they get aggressive and attack they are more likely to cause harm than a dog with a weaker jaw. Yes, they can be raised to not be as aggressive but nature plays a role and they will always be some of the most dangerous dogs. \n\nPeople like them, and that's fine, but it's absurd to irrationally make excuses for the dogs nature.",
"> Never listen to dog owners about how “aggressive” or “friendly” their dog is. They will lie to you every single time because they realize that the dog’s behavior is a reflection on them.\n\nI mean, not always. I have to stress how friendly my dog is because she weighs over 150lbs and when she wants to walk up and say hi to people, I want to assure them she's not gonna rip their face off.",
"one swift, committed kick would have ended the problem.",
"I'll look into it again then if that's the case. I already know what I'd get, I just wasn't willing to pay exorbitant prices to get it. I still would need to get a permit anyways being in Connecticut, and that's a whole ordeal from what I've heard.",
"This is from my perspective and not everyone takes their dogs to the vets regularly. I understand what you are saying as well but they are also the most abused dog breed in the U.S. and I would love to see a study done that correlates whether the abuse prompted the attack or had any factor on it.",
"> They apologized a lot and INSISTED their dog is never like this.\n> \n>\n\nevery. time.",
"Fortunately, Reddit makes it easy for me to block kids like you.\n\nGood luck with your insecurities bud.",
"So I definitely fall on the \"breeds have certain innate genetic traits\" side of the argument here, but let's not pretend that Milan is a good dog trainer. He's a joke in the professional community who's all tv persona. He believes in \"dominance\" training, which looks good for his macho man act but isn't truly effective with long-term results.",
"No no... haven't you heard, breed doesn't matter at all anymore! That's why rat terriers are good at hunting rats, and collies are good at herding, and why retrievers are good at duck hunting, all because breed isn't a thing and totally does not matter.",
"It's what I did when a local idiots out of control Husky bodied my dog when he was still a pup, it took a lot of energy out of his attack.",
"I never said that \"everything\" is direct. Just this one statistic. Telling that you would try to imply that I think \"everything is direct\" based on a single derived statistic that I've made mention of.\n\nOf course you should take a holistic view when looking at animal attacks. I mentioned as much in my comment. The *fact*, though, is that pibble attacks are more lethal than any other breed - likelihood of death isn't contingent on rates of ownership, training, or anything else. It's due to physiological traits in the breed. Weirdo pibble apologists with \"owner not breed\" in the FB PFP will always try to divert from that fact, but it's just that. It's a fact.",
"Behavior like this should result in an instant death sentence for the offending dog - no exceptions.\n\nIt is the responsibility of the owner to have control over the animal.",
"\"Pit bulls were responsible for the highest percentage of reported bites across all the studies (22.5%), followed by mixed breeds (21.2%), and German shepherds (17.8%). Mixed-breed dogs and pit bulls were found to have the highest relative risk of biting, as well as the highest average damage per bite.6 Jun 2019\"\n\nThat 'wide margin'? 1.3 percent.\n\nhttps://www.aaha.org/publications/newstat/articles/2019-06/new-study-identifies-most-damaging-dog-bites-by-breed/#:~:text=Pit%20bulls%20were%20responsible%20for,highest%20average%20damage%20per%20bite.",
"Don't bother, Reddit is kneejerk anti-pitbull. Without even reading more than the first sentence of the comment below you, I can predict that the user is droning on about pitbulls being responsible for more attacks than any other breed. Of course, he won't mention that upwards of 20% of dogs in the United States are pitbulls, or that people who've been bitten by a dog often report the attacking dog as a \"pitbull\" no matter what breed was actually involved, or that a 2008 study of dogs in the Denver area showed the most likely dog to bite humans were Labrador Retrievers. No, it's just pitbulls.",
"My only real problem is people identifying pitbulls that aren't REALLY pitbulls. These people claiming. 150lb pitbull attacked them didn't get attacked by a pit. Pits are no more than 60-65lbs. \n\nThese hulking mfers are mutts or another breed completely. \n\n\nMajority of the people in this post, including self proclaimed pitbull owners, don't own an actual purebred pitbull. \n\nPits are used in many different ways. Including as police dogs. \n\nThere is a ton of misinformation in this post.",
"You honestly seriously believe that most owners give dogs constant training? Not like telling your dog he's a bad boy for shitting the carpet every few days but actual obedience training or similar structured training. Take all the dogs in just the US. All the small dogs owned by little old ladies included. All the dogs on rural properties. All the regular old family dogs like labs and retrievers. And you think most, so at least 51% of them get constant training? \n\nI wasn't asking which breeds also attack. I'm asking which attack as often or as predisposed to attack. 6% of all dogs are pits and they are responsible for something like 70% of fatalities. The rest of the dogs including German Shepherds etc make up the other 30%. All the other big breeds lumped into that 30%.",
"I'm generally in alignment with you, but I don't think the leash laws are sufficient here. Leash laws aren't effective when the animal can overpower you and again I know this is anecdotal, but the number of pit owners that I've seen that are 100-120 pound women that rescued the dog from a shelter is enough for me to want additional scrutiny as to whom can own what breeds.",
"That fair actually. Pit bull lover and potential owner in the future here. You should always defend yourself first.",
"https://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/2016/02/17/dna-studies-reveal-that-shelter-workers-often-mislabel-dogs-as-pit-bulls/ \n\n> DNA studies reveal that shelter workers often mislabel dogs as ‘pit bulls’ \n\n> “Essentially we found that the marked lack of agreement observed among shelter staff members in categorizing the breeds of shelter dogs illustrates that reliable inclusion or exclusion of dogs as ‘pit bulls’ is not possible, even by experts,” Levy said.\n\n\nAnd that's experts trying to identify dogs... nevermind average people.",
"People like these should not be able to own a dog that they can not handle",
"https://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/2016/02/17/dna-studies-reveal-that-shelter-workers-often-mislabel-dogs-as-pit-bulls/ \n\n> DNA studies reveal that shelter workers often mislabel dogs as ‘pit bulls’ \n\n> “Essentially we found that the marked lack of agreement observed among shelter staff members in categorizing the breeds of shelter dogs illustrates that reliable inclusion or exclusion of dogs as ‘pit bulls’ is not possible, even by experts,” Levy said.\n\n\nEye witness accounts are ***totally*** accurate. Which is why those stats are so well done....",
"My sentiments exactly!",
"Well you claim it was “confirmed”, so who confirmed that 69%? It’s an easy question to answer if you’re not just making up that claim…\n\n\n>nonsense \n\n“Four Florida shelters - Jacksonville Animal Care and Protective Services, the Jacksonville Humane Society, Marion County Animal Services, and Tallahassee Animal Services - participated in the study. Four staff members at each of the four shelters indicated what breed(s) they thought 30 dogs were, for a total of 16 observers and 120 dogs.\n\nOf those 120 dogs, 55 were identified as \"pit bulls\" by shelter staff, but only 25 were identified as pit bulls by DNA analysis.\n\nAdditionally, the staff missed identifying 20% of the dogs who were pit bulls by DNA analysis, ***while only 8% of the \"true\" pit bulls were identified by all staff members***.”\n\nhttps://www.maddiesfund.org/incorrect-breed-identification.html\n\nFull study:\n\nhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109002331500310X\n\nShelter workers can’t even reliably identify them. Seems like you need to do more research, chief. \n\n\n>\tthey’d still be the worst breed by a lot.\n\nHow would you know if they’re constantly misidentified? All of the data would be wrong.",
"Exactly - there is a reason why it has been specifically banned in many countries. The video is not just a one off accident..",
"Yes. I don't know if I was supposed to have access to the whole case but I had a very good friend in Animal Services who told me everything. I believe they moved away a couple years ago. Dirtbags.",
"I wouldn't be a huge fan of putting my face that close to an aggressive dogs mouth.",
"I can’t argue with you at all, just not sure what the next logical step would be in managing it?",
"I’ll adapt it into a movie starring Joseph Gordon Levitt as the disc golfer",
"Wtf is that youtube channel",
"Work on your reading skills. When did I say any of that was untrue?",
"I hate these fuckin dogs. Get rid of them",
"Thank you!",
"Maybe you, and a lot of others just made an assumption off one sentence that the OP was a dog beater for some reason. I don't know why.",
"certain groups of people commit the most crime. must be because they are more aggressive.",
"What would be your guess?",
"So they put that dog down right?",
"Lol, Clifton and Animals 24-7 are well-known anti-pit, pro-BSL muckrackers. Their \"research\" is as crooked as most of the anti-vaxxer sites.",
"Apply your methodology to minorities and crime stats, then take a step back to see how you sound.",
"I always carry pepper spray after my dog was attacked by a pit/lab mix. Luckily my daschund turned around and bit the dogs face after being bit on the hind legs. I think this surprised the bigger dog and he left us alone. My dog had to get some stitches and the owners picked up the bill. My dog hasn’t been the same since then. No more dog parks for him.",
"The beagle/lab mix that almost killed me never had any violent tendencies either until he tried to bite my mouth off and then 2 weeks later ripped my throat apart. \n\nIt’s almost like dogs are descended from dangerous predators or something.",
"I love dogs. Seriously, I really loves dogs and in my job I've suffered injuries because I was unwilling to protect myself when I probably should have. That said, I would end up dealing with the horrible guilt of seriously injuring or killing an aggressive dog if they attacked my little girl.\n\nFuck those ignorant assholes who let this happen.",
"> \"It just barks, don't worry!\"\n\nThat's literally one of mine, If you don't stop to pet her, she barks at you. The dumbass hasn't figured out barking at people for attention doesn't work.",
"Be careful... you're replying to someone dedicated to eradicating dogs they wouldn't be able to properly identify themselves. Check their post history. They're filled with hate, misinformation, and deflection from any evidence that disagrees with them.\n\n\nFor the person below me:\n\nWeird that banning \"pitbulls\" never lowers attacks by dogs. Must be their \"aggressive DNA\" gets passed into other breeds when banned. \n\n\nhttps://www.globalanimal.org/2016/07/08/the-truth-about-pit-bulls-the-most-feared-dogs-may-also-be-the-most-misunderstood/\n\n\n\nhttps://www.avma.org/resources/pet-owners/why-breed-specific-legislation-not-answer \n\n> Breed-specific bans are a simplistic answer to a far more complex social problem, and they have the potential to divert attention and resources from more effective approaches.",
"Unless you catch them on a very sensitive spot, hitting them isn't likely to help much. My black lab ran head first into a fencepost at full speed. Stunned her for about 2 seconds before she shook it off and resumed her chase after the frisbee. Pain tolerance on some breeds is insanely high.",
"They're really sweethearts!! BLEEEEEEHHHHHCHCHHC. fuck off.",
"I'd cast steve buscemi as the bag",
"How about: raise them correctly? Is that not an option? It's straight to \"lets get rid of their entire breed\"? **YIKES.**",
"Pit bulls are terriers. They they have a prey drive for small animals built in. Like all terriers. Because that’s what the terrier group was bred for.",
"\"Pitt bull attacks for no reason\" no it attacked because it's a pitt bull and bred to do that kind of thing.",
"*Incredibly* lucky they survived that. I'm really happy for you.",
"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21475022/\n\nhttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19644273/\n\nhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165587618305950?via%3Dihub#!\n\nhttps://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm#00002439.htm\n\nThis last one is just to point out if the military is taking it seriously than something is up \n\nhttps://www.scribd.com/doc/13296614/U-S-Army-Bans-Pit-Bulls-and-Other-Breeds-from-All-RCI-Housing?ad_group=92X1590019X06229bb1c9bdedc48f1ba0b4d28b311a&campaign=SkimbitLtd&keyword=660149026&medium=affiliate&source=hp_affiliate\n\nAnyway I'll throw you a bone and grant your position....let's say shitty people are more likely to own pitbulls and either train them poorly or train them to intentionally harm. Now in the right hands perhaps they are mostly safe but in the wrong hands they are often deadly. So it's a breed that can do lots of harm and according to you are most often owned by people who will at best be ignorant of that harm and at worst encourage it. The numbers don't lie pit bulls do a lot of damage so how can we control who owns them? Maybe just maybe pitbulls should be banned like automatic weapons are because the potential to harm relative to other things like it is so high it is necessary for public safety since one bad actor can do so much damage. I love dogs but unless you can convince me of a solution that keeps pit bulls out of the hands of bad people I don't see how you can justify any position that ignores the facts. However my opinion is that pitbulls are not worth the risk because of their inherent aggressive behavior as is clearly demonstrated by mountains of evidence.",
"Now I'm a racist, lmao. Let me know when a dog gets ahold of a gun, or learns to drive a car or wield a knife. Then I'll apply that methodology to humans. That's a fucking stupid comparison to try and make.",
"The border collie is 100% capable of killing you.",
"lol nah just you",
"The tickets were for \"allowing animals to run at large\". It should have been worse because the animal control officer who first confronted the dogs unloaded his whole can when they charged him. He told me he has never been so scared on the job. I don't know who eventually got them but I had SIX cops and animal control cars on my street to get them. It became a neighborhood posse to get them.\n\nIf the dogs were never reclaimed they would eventually go through a temperament test to see if they were too aggressive to be adopted. But they were claimed, tickets paid, license and vaccination fines paid and they got them back. They moved away a couple years ago so they are someone else's problem now.",
"My dog got attacked after an elderly woman watching her daughters aggressive dog, and dropped the leash. He defended not only himself but me as well. The dog was smaller than mine, but it happened so fast I couldn't do anything. He wasnt hurt but bit the aggressive dog attacking us. So many people in my complex are incompetent and either have dogs off leash or cant control them. Animal control cleared him of any wrongdoing, but I put a muzzle on my dog just in case. I bought pepper spray incase anything like that happens again. I always carry a knife but I'd rather incapacitate the dog than have to use my knife. I avoid all areas with dogs now but I'm just trying to be safe. An example was before this happened, I was at the dog park and a drunk guy with a big german shepherd showed up being pulled along by his dog. I just left and the dog was trying to attack my dog through the fence.",
"As the former owner of a pit bull with an extremely strong prey drive who *never* let him off of his leash, I would kindly invite you to go take a long walk on a short pier.",
"Kid would literally do the take his ball and go home shit on me. I remember him once coming over and pulling that card on me within 5 mins. Said bye and went back inside lmao",
"Most people aren’t doing dna testing every time. This post has no information let alone misinformation. You can’t deny pit bulls or pit bull mutts have killed/maimed more people than any other types.",
"I have yet to see *anything* that has ever given context to the pit bull mauling and killing statistics. Most attacks are a loved family pet randomly snapping or slowly becoming more and more aggressive as they get older. What kind of context explains that?",
"Pit bulls are terriers. They were not originally bred for dog fighting. They were bred as a terrier breed for pest control.",
"https://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/2016/02/17/dna-studies-reveal-that-shelter-workers-often-mislabel-dogs-as-pit-bulls/ \n\n> DNA studies reveal that shelter workers often mislabel dogs as ‘pit bulls’ \n\n> “Essentially we found that the marked lack of agreement observed among shelter staff members in categorizing the breeds of shelter dogs illustrates that reliable inclusion or exclusion of dogs as ‘pit bulls’ is not possible, even by experts,” Levy said.\n\n\nCan't even identify dogs correctly when professionals do it. And you'd have them kill dog they can't identify... going solely on how you think they look.\n\nhttps://globalnews.ca/news/2527882/torontos-pit-bulls-are-almost-gone-so-why-are-there-more-dog-bites-than-ever/\n\nSo weird that bites happen even more when you ban them too... but you'll just pretend this doesn't exist and downvote. Go back to your echo chamber.\n\n\nEdit: echo",
"“Probably lick you to death!”",
"My point is you can't even tell the difference can you? So how can you say the pitbull breed is all aggressive if you can't even recognize what breed this is. I think it looks like an American Bully. Which is not at all a pitbull.",
"It is NOT identical unless you think black people are equivalent to dogs. Which you clearly do.",
"good way to get bitten",
"Weird how this only needs to be repeated endlessly about one breed.",
"Former friend had a drinking buddy who had an absolutely -IDIOT- girlfriend, she had one of these dogs. They'd pull up \"Better put your cat in the house.\" they'd say. And every single time, they'd let the dog out and he'd run -straight- for the cat, ready to kill. Cat would go up the tree and dog would do its best to climb after him. He was told, never bring the dog again. \"He's just playing, the cat gets away anyway.\"\n\nOne day we had a bbq, hitting the ball around in the side field, friend had their little dog with them, on a leash, here comes Idiot and Idiot 2, let their dog out who -beelines- right for the little dog, started attacking everyone who was between him and the dog. drew blood, broke one guy's arm, dog was NOT stopping.\n\nFriend comes down on the dog's head with the baseball bat he had in hand, solid hit, like you could -hear- the crack. Definitely caused -major- damage to the dog's skull. You'd think that would stop him? NOPE. Dog kept going, full on bloodlust. Took a SECOND shot to the dog right in the jaw, shattering it to slow him down. Still, jaw flapping around was still going at it, impervious to the fact it just took two fucking homerun hits to the head. I don't fucking care what anyone says, If you don't raise it right, its an absolutely -violent- breed that WILL cause shit. and holy fucking cuntbangs, if you know he's going to chase a cat when you open the door DONT BRING THE DOG..\n\nNeedless to say, that dog was put down there and then, it was going to keep going, doing dog knows what.\n\nIdiot and idot-er were told never come back. I moved a year later, never saw them again. \n\nShitty part is I heard they had idiot kids and got FOUR of that fucking dog breed right after that.\n\nYes, there was lawsuits and police shit filed. I hated that fucking idiot of a guy. He was half a brain cell from being an idiot dog himself.",
"Dude it's just not worth having a Pitbull. It cannot be worth all this consideration given the observable risk.",
"They’re ugly, dumb, and dangerous. They cause a lot of heart break and death every year, and for what? So some asshole can think they’re tough. \n\nMake a pitbull tax. $500 a year to own one of these monsters. More importantly make owners financial liable when they do attack. You should be hit with drunk driving level fines. It’s no joke, they kill kids and adults every year.",
"For a few minutes, in front of a television crew, with plenty of time for editing and cuts and no real follow-up with the owners months or years down the road. Look, this isn't a view that's hard to find. If you actually want to read about dominance training and why no one in the professional community takes it seriously, here's a few sources to get you started:\n\n[Here's the RSPCA's view on it.](https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-the-rspcas-view-on-dominance-dog-training/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20dominance%20training%20methods,the%20unwanted%20behaviour%20much%20worse.)\n\n[Oh look, an actual veterinarian, which Caesar Milan isn't.](https://www.petmd.com/blogs/purelypuppy/lradosta/2012/nov/using_the_dominance_down_on_dogs-29335)\n\n[Another article, less heavy on the science and easier to digest.](https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/behavior/debunking-the-alpha-dog-theory/)\n\n[Here's an actual dog trainer.](https://animalwellnessmagazine.com/dominance-based-dog-training/)\n\n[History heavy, but a good read.](https://dogbizsuccess.com/danger-dominance-theory/)\n\nReally, actual trainers and vets are all saying the same thing: dominance training is an outdated method based on old, flawed science that has long been disproven. It's based on our old understanding of wolf pack hierarchy, which is entirely inaccurate based on a slew of more recent studies on wolf behavior.",
"Yeah, must be a one-off. Oh, wait.",
"Lawyer lawyer lawyer lawyer lawyer.",
"Rewatching in slow motion, it looked like they were our running with the dog on leash. When the dog bolted to cross the street, the owner was knocked down and lost the leash *(you can clearly see them fall down in the video)*.",
"https://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/2016/02/17/dna-studies-reveal-that-shelter-workers-often-mislabel-dogs-as-pit-bulls/ \n\n> DNA studies reveal that shelter workers often mislabel dogs as ‘pit bulls’ \n\n> “Essentially we found that the marked lack of agreement observed among shelter staff members in categorizing the breeds of shelter dogs illustrates that reliable inclusion or exclusion of dogs as ‘pit bulls’ is not possible, even by experts,” Levy said.",
"Well that’s just untrue. Did you not just watch the video? That dog came flying across the street and it wasn’t to say hello and give a hug. The dudes dog didn’t even see it before it was aggressively charging. Some dogs just aren’t nice dogs and attack see video above. \n\nThe idea that “oh you can’t fight if the other person doesn’t fight back”. That’s ridiculous. If an aggressive dog wants to attack something it doesn’t care if it fights back. It just goes at if. It will pick up a small dog and shake it to death before the small dog has a chance to react. My chick has been a vet tech for 18 years and I’ve volunteered for about the same time at vets, shelters, rescues, and worked with many trainers. Unprovoked dog attacks happen all the time.",
"There was a long term (i think like 5 or 7 years) credible study down that examined self-reported identification, professional assessment, and DNA. But again, the numbers are SO overwhelming, even if they got it wrong half the time, they'd STILL be the worst breed. Even after, the year to year is pretty consistent. Take a look at r/banpitbulls, and the news reports will give you confidence. It's tragically sad though, to look through it. For example, a 9 year old got airlifted after a mauling in Florida a few hours ago, sounds like massive facial trauma, and it was unsurprisingly a pitbull.\n\nAs for the late 1800s date...that's just incorrect. Pitbulls originated in England in the late 1500s. The created the breed set they could bet on the outcomes of a bull or bear fighting the dog. When that was considered too barbaric, they started using them for dog fighting. Bull baiting was already well on the decline in the 1800s, and was outlawed officially in 1835 - there would be no reason to have a pit bull in the late 1800s when there were no pits with bulls in them...",
"Easier to avoid being bitten choking it by its collar than just hitting or kicking it, not many dogs can shift in their collars that freely.",
"Raise them correctly?\n\nPits from perfectly loving homes hurt people every single day.\n\nHell- even Cesar Millan's pit that he raised since birth killed queen Latifya's dog and mauled a star gymnast. \n\nYou can't train or love instincts away.",
"Nonono you don’t understand sweaty. That vicious chihuahua provoked sweet Mr. Pibbles🤧",
">\tdone by pitbulls of USA society.\n\nIt’s actually the University of Florida and Michigan State University. Why don’t you try reading it? \n\n\n>\tEveryone knows \n\nExcept for shelter workers who’s job it is to be around different breeds of dogs all day?",
"Touchè",
"Nah, you're falling for the same thinking that makes them end up as shivery little psychos: disregarding the fact that they are still dogs and treating them differently. If you met a Chi that's been treated like any other dog - given boundaries, been through basic obedience training, been held to an expectation to behave as they've been trained, and, most importantly, given very basic respect in regards to their bodily autonomy (you wouldn't just scoop a German Shepherd off the ground if you weren't sure they were okay with it), you'd find they're just as fun and normal as any other dog.",
"https://globalnews.ca/news/2527882/torontos-pit-bulls-are-almost-gone-so-why-are-there-more-dog-bites-than-ever/\n\nMan, removing \"pitbulls\" raises dog attacks... weird how often that happens.",
"That is a view based on anecdotal evidence at best. Pitbulls are not naturally more aggressive than any other breed. That is a fact that comes from studies [here](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016815911300292X?via%3Dihub) and [here](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S155878780700264X?via%3Dihub) that are insanely easy to find. Further, while pit type dogs are responsible for the most deaths per year, if you consider that they account for roughly 20% of dog population in the US, they are not the killers people seem to think they are. Actually, they are in line with the rates of attack and deaths as other dogs like German Shepherds or bulldogs and less so than Rottweilers and Akitas (in terms of attacks on other dogs). They are not nearly comparable to owning a tiger or a lion. The real problem with pits is there are a ton of them and they are overbred and under fixed in the south.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n[here](https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/may/10/are-30-50-shelter-dogs-pit-bulls/) is a link stating pitbulls may makeup 30-50% of dogs in shelters (20% was conservative I suppose)\n\n[here](https://allpetslife.com/dog-bite-statistics/) is a link with dog bite statistics.",
"https://globalnews.ca/news/2527882/torontos-pit-bulls-are-almost-gone-so-why-are-there-more-dog-bites-than-ever/",
"They shouldn’t have sent the little girl to get it",
"What's the statute of limitations on a civil suit?",
"Even those who do walk their dogs *on* leashes are fucking idiots too.\n\nToo many people leave their dogs locked up inside all day, never socialize them with other animals, never take them anywhere other than their small short walked neighborhood, and they're Pikachu face surprised when their dog is aggressive and defensive.\n\nI see if every day I walk in my complex, people literally having to brace their bodies to hold their animals to stop it from wanting to attack my dog for no reason. Should be illegal to own an animal like that, it makes me want to buy a hand gun every day I walk her.\n\nSocialize your fucking animals!",
"There was just an uproar here in Toronto because an \"American Bully\" got picked up by animal control while lost. It was held because Pitbulls are not legal to own here. People were out the front protesting and it was all over the news because it isn't technically a pitbull. The Ontario government even talked about loosening the laws around pitbull ownership. \n\nThey released it last Tuesday and on Friday that exact dog mauled a 13 year old boy in the face. \n\nhttps://toronto.ctvnews.ca/dog-at-centre-of-ontario-pit-bull-controversy-allegedly-attacked-teen-four-days-after-being-released-1.5659113",
"Me either :)\n\nI can speculate, but I'm definitely not an expert in the required fields here. I'd suppose it would start with an aggressive or large breed certification that you've taken whatever training is required to be able to handle such breeds before adoption is allowed?",
"This is so incredibly dishonest.\n\nYou know damn well that pitbull is a blanket term for four different types of bully dogs. Each of which is equally prone to problematic and violent instincts. \n\nWhen pits do something bad you desperately want a way for them to not be pits. The reality is they are not hard to identify. Their genetics are not exactly subtle.",
"I’m a trainer. Dog aggression is not usually something you can train out. It can be managed but very rarely will you be able to train it out of a dog.",
"Nah, it's both. You can't fully take the breeding out of a dog, but not abusing them, training/exercising them properly, and following common sense procedures (like not having them off leash) are also equally important.\n\nIt's dumb to put the blame on one side or the other. The best trained dog can still get triggered, but the worse owners make it even more likely.",
"The stats you are posting are just inaccurate. There is no central database tracking any of the data you posted so it's at best a guess. \"pitbull\" refers to no less than a dozen mixed breed types all lumped together and stated figures are between 6-22% of all dogs. \n\nAnd that 'good boy', 'bad boy' for doing good or bad things literally is consistent training you numbnuts. You are reinforcing behavior each time you do that.\n\nLikewise if you make your dog sit and stay for a treat, you are performing consistent training.",
"Almost every single time a dog is mean is because of its owners, they are extremely domesticated and not quite like wild animals in the traditional way. You actually have to go out of your way for your dog to be that bad and mean. I always have had Rottweilers and none of them even knew what mean was, it’s 99.9% of the time the owners and not the dog",
"When there was a dog like that living next door and we called animal control, their exact words were \"why didn't you shoot it?\"\n\nCompletely fucking useless. Virginia is a shithole.",
"It's the same thing.",
"I would be fucking livid. I'm reading through this thread and thinking about my own dog who is fast asleep next to me and I'm practically shaking with rage. I'm a very calm and rational person, but if you fuck with my dog a part of me comes out that I can't control.",
"The biggest problem here is owning a pitbull, statistics don't lie.",
"That pitbull was just a victim of systematic racism",
"I had a neighbor once that had a pitbull that I watched him train to literally jump up a tree. I'm not bullshitting when I say that dog could run at and jump off the trunk of a tree, jump 7 feet in the air and grab a traffic cone and bring it down. This dog was also always getting out. I stopped leaving the house without a pistol after I saw that shit.",
"If you watch the beginning of the video you can see the person (kid?) get dragged down by the dog and let go of the leash.",
"Filled with hate? Not at all.\n\nIt's not my side that is determined to keep shelters filled to the brim with pits and wants to continue to euthanize hundreds every single day. \n\nI want every pit alive to live a full and happy life... I just don't want to see more be made. \n\nIt's your side that is hateful. Not mine.",
"I’m personally more of a cat person? But I don’t see pit bulls as being any more risky than a large, powerful dog of a different breed, if they are trained correctly. It’s just that training is probably more work and time than a lot of people will take on. Some morons think that their snarling, aggressive, time bomb dogs are “badass.”",
"https://chicagoinjurycenter.com/common-breeds\n\n\n> However, when evaluating dog bite attacks by breed, a 2008 study compiled by The Coalition for Living Safely with Dogs looked at all dog bites occurring in the Denver, CO area during the prior year. The study concluded that dog attacks were most common with the following breeds:\n\n> ***Labrador retrievers: 13.3%***\n\n> Pit Bulls: 8.4%\n\n> German Shepherds: 7.8%\n\n> Rottweilers: 3.9%\n\n> Chows: 3.5%",
"Yep, certain breeds have traits you can never fully train out.\n\nThis is why my HOA bans pits.",
"From a pure statistical standpoint, chihuahuas are the most aggressive breed. But since they're so small, it's easy enough to fend off an attack. I believe pit bulls are the statistically the most dangerous breed, though.",
"I had a dog that was a chihuahua mix and his look and personality was 90% chihuaha, but he was 45 pounds; that dog was terrifying. He was mean as shit, afraid of nothing, and tough as nails, would not recommend.",
"Thank you for rightfully blaming the owner in the title, too often the dog gets the blame.",
"There’s also like 4 breeds (or more) that get lumped in as “pit bulls” and are one of, if not the, most common breeds in America. So if you have more of them, and you have multiple breeds all lumped together, it stands to reason that they would outnumber other dogs in raw numbers of attacks. And that’s before you account for shitty owners. Some have terrible prey drives. Some are the most docile and patient dogs I’ve ever seen.",
"Can you find a source that says pitbulls weren't bred for dogfighting? My understanding is that pitbulls were a cross between English bulldogs and terriers when dogfighting arose after bull and bear baiting was banned. \n\nEven Love-a-Bull, a pitbull advocacy organization says as much:\n\n\"Ultimately, the public turned their eyes upon dog fighting as it was more easily hidden from view and thus the law. Ratting and dogfighting both required more agility and speed on the part of the dog, so Bulldogs were crossed with Terriers “Bull and Terriers”, more commonly known as the first Pit Bull Terrier.\n\nShortly before the Civil War, immigrants from the British Isles came to the United States, but along with them came their Pit Bulls. It was during this time that the Pit Bull Terrier breed was named the “American” Pit Bull Terrier. Though these dogs had been specifically bred for fighting, they soon became a much larger and invaluable fixture in a developing nation.\"\n\nhttps://love-a-bull.org/resources/the-history-of-pit-bulls/",
"Hello /u/occasionaldrinker, \n\nThank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it is being removed due to the following reason(s): \n\n- **Rule #7** No videos of assault/battery or public freakouts\n\n\nFor a more detailed explanation about our no assault/battery rule, see the [wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_7_-_no_malicious_assaults_or_abuse_of_animals_or_public_freakouts).\n\n\n\nThank you for understanding."
] | 1,406 |
videos
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The negligent dog owner is the worst kind of dog owner
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6R_WTDdx7I
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/r/videos/comments/qqafx3/fast_fashion_is_hot_garbage_climate_town/
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[
"Found this channel and absolutely had to share!\n\nThis guy gets to the point and is funny while talking about fascinating stuff. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.",
"Oh, also check out: [Why your 'Carbon Footprint' Is A Lie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J9LOqiXdpE) thats also really good",
"I could be wrong. But I don’t like Uni Qlo being included in the shit list. \n\nI wear my Uni Glo stuff for years. I buy it because I find it to be durable and decent quality for the price.",
"Depends how you treat your wardrobe. I have uniqlo stuff which I've worn for years; debobbling the wool and handwashing for long life. There are others who will buy something, wear it twice and bin it - just cos it's cheap enough to do so.",
"Rollie is goated, love his videos",
"Well like don’t do that second part. The planet is dying. And your fashion habits are on a short list of things you can actually do to help.",
"My company manufactures a lot of apparel and the situation he described where cotton harvesting in one country is processed in another, and a tag sewn on in another etc. is one I have never seen before, and might be a worst-case-scenario. We have visibility into our full supply chain, and usually the cotton harvester and mill is in the same country as the finishing factory, that is not to say there isn't a lot of pollution from the factories, and from trucking materials long distances. But companies definitely aren't shipping multiple times on the ocean. That shit is too expensive now!",
"> There are others who will buy something, wear it twice and bin it - just cos it's cheap enough to do so.\n\nNobody who buys cheap clothes does this wtf lol\n\nIf you can afford to do that you're going to be buying nicer, more expensive clothes.",
"I know many people who’ll buy cheap clothes from boohoo.com, or somewhere else like it, just to wear it once. It’s not uncommon.",
"Who wears clothes 7 times and throws them away?",
"It's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but there's a lot of people who buy cheap clothes even though they could just buy fewer clothes and buy more expensive - specifically because they enjoy rolling over their wardrobe so rapidly. \"Fast fashion\" exists not just to offer clothes at cheap prices, but specifically to target new trends rapidly - trends that can sometimes come and go in less than a season.\n\nSo no, they're not literally throwing them in the trash, but they're relegating them to the back of the closet never to be worn again, and eventually to be either thrown out or \"donated\" (that's a whole other discussion) next time the closet gets cleaned out.\n\nI don't know a ton about Uniqlo - my impression of it has been that it's more focused on affordable basics than trend-following, so maybe for that reason it doesn't bear inclusion in this list - but it definitely happens with lots of low-priced brands, and it's not really about the fact that they wear out more quickly (although that's often also true).",
"when i was younger, i bought some things i shouldn't have that have gone to waste. at the same time, the shorts i wear 95% of the time are a pair of gym shorts i've owned for over 20 years.",
"The big trend of \"fashion hauls\" on TikTok/Instagram/Youtube have played a big part in this I feel. \"Fashion\" has always had a pretty short shelf life when it comes to what's in or trendy, and this trend of people making videos of them buying a huge amount of clothes over and over again from these type of sites that just churn out relatively cheap trendy stuff definitely encourages people to do the same.",
"Guy has a serious Joel Haver vibe. Is this just a regional US accent?",
"Me, a peasant, currently wearing a shirt I purchased over a decade ago.",
"I have t-shirts that are about 10 years old. I have a winter jacket that is almost 15 years old.",
"Same :D We peasants should be proud of ourselves ;)",
"I wore my arcteryx pants just 7 times this last week. Still look as new.",
"This is some quality content, thanks!",
"We’re fucked",
"uniqlo is good for ts/underwear/socks. the \"dress\" stuff is total garbage and inevitably shrinks 1-2 sizes as soon as i wash it meaning it does in fact wind up in a landfill or donated after only a few wears. this is the reason i just stopped buying that kind of thing there. it looks good on the rack but once you actually get up close to it you can tell the quality is shit",
"Indeed. I have not bought new clothes except socks and boxers in months. Maybe even as much as a year now.",
"A lot of people. You're thinking about it a bit too literally. It's not like people buy an article of clothing, wear it 7 times as quickly as possible, and then literally throw it in the trash can a few weeks later.\n\nIt's more about waning to continuously rotate in new pieces than anything else. It's easy to only wear something 7 times if you've already got weeks worth of clothes without having to repeat the same outfit and you keep buying new clothes and have to make room for more and more all the time. Your \"old\" items that are being cleared out to make space for new stuff might have only been worn a few times. This is what only wearing clothes 7 times actually looks like.\n\nWhen you buy \"seasonal\" items this only exacerbates the problem. If you only wear something during the fall, and you've already got enough fall outfits to barely repeat the same look more than once a month, you'll wear a given outfit 2 or 3 times annually and after a few seasons you're thinking about the piece like it's ancient despite being worn only a few times.\n\nThis isn't something I do at all, but I've seen it first hand, and it's a lot more common than you'd think.",
"fucking lost it at \"Oops! All executive Salaries!\"",
"Not me! I have t shirts from the 90s still. I wear clothes until they literally fall apart",
"As he films on technology that pollutes so much more. Even more if it was filled on \"iPhone\" unless you forget about pit mining for precious metals so you can have 4 cameras on a cell phone....Just sayin.",
"r/collapse",
"He looks so much like another youtuber I watch that does billiards videos",
"68 items a year getting worn 7 times each?\n\nSo people wear less than 2 items of clothing a day?\n\nHmmm",
"yea, this seems like a kind of lazily researched video. and the whole thing of criticizing companies because people have shitty behaviors seems misdirected.",
"Let me truncate that for you: Fashion is garbage. This just in, it's not the clothes that look good, it's the smoking-hot runway model that's wearing them, which is why you can find plenty of pictures of couture dresses made out of literal garbage bags.\n\nYou want to fix fast fashion? Start charging at the landfill. The reason we have this disposable culture is because we make it really cheap to make garbage. We *subsidize* landfills, instead of passing on those costs to the people filling them, and **BIG SURPRISE**, that encourages waste.",
"It's the same guy",
"I wear the same shirts hundreds of times across serveral years, until they fall appart.",
"How would he reach an audience without using electronics? Genuinely wondering",
"So...what? Don't film things anymore? Go back to using Nokias? Did you think about this lazy \"gotcha\" before you hit \"Reply\"?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nPretty sure he isn't saying \"don't use polyester fabric\". The argument is against disposability, not the materials outright. If you use your phone for 5+ years, it's not as bad as junking your \"iPhone\" every year for a new model. And if you buy a nice shirt and wear it for five years, it's way better than buying clothes just to wear them a couple times, forget about them, and throw them out.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n..Just sayin.",
"So I went to united by zero to see what I could purchase and they don't even have a shop. I hate sites that spend too much effort on declaring their goals and too little time actually getting stuff done.",
"I still wear shirts I’ve had since college. I’m 38.",
"There are dozens of us... DOZENS",
"yeah, seems like they're trying to develop their email database before launching the online store",
"I have shit in my closet from 20 years ago.",
"I’m pretty sure I’ve got clothes I wore in my teens I’m still wearing in my 30’s. I guess it was forward thinking of me to buy all those shirts 4x my size back then, older overweight me now has vintage clothes that fit.",
"Women",
">.\n\nHave you brought from HM, the material is so thin that shit will get destroyed after several washes.",
"Fast fashion is temporary. \nCutoff jeans are forever.",
"I relate 0% to this. I still have jeans from high school and I'm turning 37 soon.",
"I feel the same. Uniqlo is great for basics. I haven't gotten rid of a single item I have purchased from there after years.",
"> \"How we deal with fast fashion may determine if we're able to avoid some of the worst parts of the climate disaster.\"\n\nThat's a ridiculous and totally unsupported claim.",
"So on the nose I suspect satire/trolling.\n\nAlmost a million views there... Like, cmon.",
"How do people have so much time to spend on purchasing clothing.",
"I haven't bought pants in 2 years",
"I'm sceptical of some of those numbers. People wear their clothes on average *seven times*? *Who*? Who *the fuck*? Americans buy 70+ pieces of clothing annually? That just doesn't add up. It doesn't pass the smell test. \"Climate Town\"?",
"I'm waiting for someone to show up the thread here, like, \"Oh, yes, I buy over 70 pieces of clothing annually and I wear each garment only seven times before throwing it away.\" The guy's numbers don't sound nearly realistic.",
"Man, I find a style of pants I like I buy the same pair in like 5 colors and just wear them in rotation until they get holes, then I mend them and wear them til the fabric wears out around the mend. Then they get cut up into patches for the next batch of the same pants. But hell even my tux has been worn more than 7 times.",
"Rollie is the man, I just wish he made more content",
"This is why we need government issued jumpsuits, this mindset is so crazy to me.",
"Beauty is a hobby for a lot of people. It's not some mystery.",
"bruh you're in a thread full of guys wearing the same tee shirts they've had for twenty years and don't see anything wrong with it.\n\nno one here has been to an h&m.",
"I never thought 1 min into any video could make me so angry.",
"I bought a 40 dollar peacoat from Costco 10 years ago. I've resewn the seams, replaced the buttons twice, and restitched things. \n\nStill looks and feels great. I don't throw things out until it's broken!",
"Hilariously enough, he makes a shit ton of billiards content.",
"I love finding nice shirts that are just a bit too big at the thrift store for cheap then adjusting them to be a nice fitted shirt.",
"Maybe this helps to understand:\n\nPeople do not wear at least 50 % of their wardrobe.\n\n>Even though Americans’ delusion levels are not among the highest (39 \npercent), they do have the second highest percentage of unworn clothes: \n82 percent of their items never saw the light of day last year.\n\nSources:\n\n[https://fashionunited.uk/news/fashion/people-do-not-wear-at-least-50-percent-of-their-wardrobes-according-to-study/2018081638356](https://fashionunited.uk/news/fashion/people-do-not-wear-at-least-50-percent-of-their-wardrobes-according-to-study/2018081638356)\n\n[https://www.consumptionandenvironment.com/home/how-many-clothes-we-own-and-how-many-clothes-we-wear](https://www.consumptionandenvironment.com/home/how-many-clothes-we-own-and-how-many-clothes-we-wear)",
"If you think there is something wrong with wearing t-shirts for 20 years you should probably watch the video we are commenting on.",
"US has a mostly free market in this area. It is the customer who drives the innovation in one way or another. This can be seen by more and more environmental friendly clothing companies. I know a lot in Europe. Sadly there is also a trend towards fast fashion, so we move towards both extreme ends at the same time.\n\nEdit: And of course rules and legislations from the government to guide companies in the right directions. But the past has shown how much you can count on them, so....",
"Is that true though? I pretty much only buy hoodies from H&M. I'm wearing one right now that I bought two years ago, and while the color has faded quite a bit, the material is cozy and it has held up very well. I'm pretty sure I'll be wearing it for some time to come.\n\nOh, as I was typing that, I have also bought boxer briefs from H&M too and those seem to fall apart sooner than ones I've gotten elsewhere.",
"I feel you :D",
"a lot of people. Like...nearly everyone. It's an exceptionally common term",
"I worked at a competitor and we talked about that all the time. As Instagram got more popular it didn't matter, it's not like they could wear it in more than one post",
"I could be wrong, but they sound like they are from somewhere in the midwest and kept a slight accent after moving to college to me.",
"That stuff's fine. It's the women's shirts that cost a couple dollars to buy (from the supplier) don't last long",
"Statistical outliers who wear clothes once or never and throw them away, skewing the average.",
"Link?",
"Landfills already charge, and so does your local waste collection agency. This doesn't really shape consumer behavior though, and if trash collection gets too expensive people will just abandon their trash someplace else.",
"I only throw out clothes when there’s holes in them, and even still try to patch those holes first. Who the fuck can afford this shit?",
"I have a lot of stuff I purchased a decade ago. If you purchase quality stuff, they last for a long time. Learn to wash your laundry correctly, learn to rotate what you wear, learn to shine and maintain your shoes. My clothing have lasted way longer than my electronics.\n\nI think my Edward Greens can be passed down to my children lol.",
">As he films on technology that pollutes so much more. Even more if it was filled on \"iPhone\" unless you forget about pit mining for precious metals so you can have 4 cameras on a cell phone....Just sayin.\n\n[\"Yet you participate in society. Curious!\"](https://thenib.imgix.net/usq/8688038d-f99b-4224-872b-b8dd626f868c/mister-gotcha-4-9faefa.png?auto=compress,format&cs=srgb&_=9faefab75c06b49cfcf18e1394c50376)",
"I watched it when it came out. I'm a big fan of Rollie, both on Climate Town and hilariously enough, his excellent billiards content. It's also not my first introduction to the perils of fast fashion, which has been a talking point for a decade now.\n\nHowever, there's a mighty gap between buying a disposable tee shirt at H&M and wearing a threadbare tee shirt from 2001, my guy, and it's a little spurious to claim that if I don't support the latter than I absolutely support the former.\n\nI dunno, maybe you guys get more out your clothing than I do and are buying tee shirts that somehow last 20 years. Mine last about 2 or 3 before I turn them into rags or donated to a homeless shelter.",
"said no one.\n\nYou'll note the linked video is not in a theatre",
"I don't find uniqlo to be poor quality at all. Nothing I have bought from uniqlo has been bad. I in fact switched from Levi's jeans to uniqlo jeans because the Levi's would wear out with a year.",
"Why I have 20 t-shirts of the same color (grey) made by Gildan. Costs me about $3 on average. I save tons of money.",
"No clue. I've got underwear that's over a decade old.",
"This is where regulations would help. It shouldn't be so cheap to throw away. A person could choose not to throw away, but the masses are going to do what's economical.... Until it's no longer economical. A carbon tax could really help here. Make people pay what it really costs, and demand will evaporate overnight.",
"One thing I’ve noticed in recent years is the material in everything pills now, and it’s super annoying. I have shirts and pants and hoodies from 10+ years ago that are great, and the newer clothes even from “high quality” brands like Patagonia, Nike, Marmot, Columbia, etc - the material pills very easily. My guess is it’s the introduction of 2% spandex-type synthetics into everything to make it softer and stretchier, but I’m not sure",
"Are you being serious or are you trolling?",
"Depends on how many holes you find acceptable also don't use a dryer when you want your closes to last.",
"Easy, just don't wash, the dirty will strengthen the fabric",
"Every video on this channel is worth at least one watch.",
"We need the lecture too. \n\nThe company I work for uses torn up shirts as rags to clean spills. We buy from a company that buys from wherever all the thrift store rejects send them to. \n\nThe majority of the shirts that I see are either for tourist trap locations or \"fun run for cancer 2016\" type event shirts.\n\nThere are better ways to commemorate a vacation or supporting a cause than buying clothing you're going to wear once.",
">Landfills already charge, and so does your local waste collection agency.\n\nBecause they don't charge *enough*. And enforcing littering laws is also something which can drive revenue.",
"The [Patriot Act](https://youtu.be/xGF3ObOBbac) did this, too, a while ago. Very frustrating to hear these stats.",
"It doesn't make the numbers more plausible. Where are the data?",
"It has its purposes. I bought like 3 pairs of “suede” dress shoes from Primark for like $30 just to wear to bars as beaters and they were great. No use buying quality stuff if you are just going to beat them up.",
"I’ve got a few from like 2010 that are still wearable, but they’ve been on “yard work, pajama, and/or not leaving the house today” duty for the last couple years.\n\nEDIT: oh, I actually do have a hoodie from like 2001-02, but same deal there.",
"Reused for preowned.",
"I think this kind of an \"average statistic\" screams of some tainted bias. It's like how they claim that dishwashers use less water than cleaning it by hand. How did they get to this calculation? Well, they call handwashing a person turning on the tap and not turning off the water (letting it drain) until the dish is clean.",
"This guy fucks",
"I won a shirt in a computer programming contest in 1999 that I still wear to this day.",
"Who is buying 5-6 articles of clothing a month? What the fuck?",
"Right? I buy cheap clothes but still wear them for years.",
"Dishwashers actually use very little water. I was checking the other how long I would have to run the tap to equal the same amount of water a dishwasher uses and it was only about 3 minutes. yeah I'm not running the water constantly but in 30 minutes of washing dishes I probably use more than 3 minutes worth of water.",
"I didn't know this was a thing. My newest pants are 5 years old, and still wear shirts I bought 15 years ago.",
"\\*Mid 30s man looks in closet - still has a bunch of stuff from high school & college\\*\n\n\"Not me\"",
"https://www.youtube.com/user/RollieWilliams",
"Half my wardrobe is from HM. I buy like three things a year and most of it is 5+ years old at this point and I wear them weekly. It's mostly cotton/polyester like just about everything else you can buy. Your washing machine must be ruthless.",
"This was incredible!",
"Imo [Hasan Minhaj does a better take on the issue](https://youtu.be/xGF3ObOBbac) with better jokes and punchlines.",
"Exactly. The women's clothing, especially blouses that are good for the office, fell apart super quick. When I was fresh out of college I only got H&M blouses since they were cheap and vowed never to buy again once I got better pay...",
"this made me feel really weird about the fact that most of my clothes are like at least 5 years old.. if not 10.",
"Selection bias is one thing. Those people just aren't going to speak up. Another is that some people might not even realize they're doing this. See [this explanatory comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qqafx3/fast_fashion_is_hot_garbage_climate_town/hjzrmtx/) (a reply to the top comment at the moment).",
"I forgot to sub to this guy the last time I saw this video. Thanks for the repost lol.",
"Hey, I'm no expert either! But I have been designing and sourcing apparel, lots of injection molded parts and smaller-BOM hard goods for 10 years. I don't doubt that large multi-national corporations source components from many different countries simply because they have the economies of scale, and personnel working hard to get the absolutely lowest prices on each component. I also don't really know how an Apple, or Samsung functions in great detail, since that's not my industry. I am sure it's very, very complex. But I think the caveat there is, that each component of complex electronics, or Boeing passenger planes has a significantly higher dollar value than the components he's talking about for apparel assemblies. So a very rough scenario, and more so what I was getting at was, let's say a tag that goes in the neck of a t-shirt costs $0.01/ea (The total cost of the shirt may be only $0.20-0.30 depending on volume). It makes no sense to ship tags in from China if you manufacture in India, when you can get tags from India most likely for the same price or less locally, and you're not paying $20k per container. Now granted, you may be able to fit upwards of 1 million tags in a container, but you're still significantly increasing the cost of the tag - adding $0.02 in this scenario. So what I was getting at was his proposed model of sourcing all of the components of fashion from all over the world - just doesn't make sense from a cost perspective specifically for apparel. Totally makes sense for iPhones and Xboxes, but again not my industry.",
"Are you suggesting that people will only wear clothing that they've bought within the year?",
"Yeah I know plenty of people that work borderline minimum wage (as I once did) that spend pretty much all their money on clothes and rent. Don't get me wrong, they look fabulous. But they also don't have cars or degrees.",
"Their skinny jeans tear super easily too. They are super comfortable, but I've ripped like 4 pairs just from bending and squatting whereas my Levis only get weak near the pockets because of my phone.",
"My thing is, I really hope those people aren't throwing their clothes away. I donate 95% of my unwanted clothes and the other 5% is stuff that is unwearable or uniforms from past employment.",
"He addresses this in the video. The vast majority of clothes you donate get thrown away.",
"Averages are odd like that. Something like mean would probably be more meaningful here.\n\nThink of this example, how many fingers do people have on average?\n\nMost people want to answer 10 because people with extra or missing fingers are rare. But if you actually did the math, what you'd find is that the average is less than 10. Probably close to 9? Think of all the people that are missing at least one hand. But those people are not \"balanced out\" by people with extra hands or extra fingers. So to recap, it's very rare to have more than 10 fingers and lots of people (in absolute terms) have fewer than 10. So that sort of averages out to less than 10.",
"Also, I live in a place that is winter for 6 months of the year. Once a piece of clothing is out of season I put it in a box because I know I'm not going to wear it until it is warm again. I have clothes that are 10+ years old.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n My wife thinks I look homeless sometimes because I wear dated t-shirts, but I also don't mind splurging on new clothes for her because it makes her happy. Its very easy to forget clothes that are 3 years old have only been warn 5 times.",
"planet isnt dying, whats dying or expiring is the amount of time this planet can continue to sustain us.",
"While I support the dude's intentions, his sources are kind of sketchy. In the video he says 90% of what we donate ends up in the trash. I am having a hard time sourcing that. He linked [this](https://www.treehugger.com/clothes-you-donate-dont-always-end-peoples-backs-4863686) article in the description. But [treehugger.com](https://treehugger.com) is not exactly what I would call a credible source. Sure, the article itself has *some* sources, but not nearly enough to back up all of its claims.\n\nThese articles just keep linking to each other throwing around numbers like only 20% of our stuff (which is already double the amount he mentioned in the video) is being resold and most of it is being thrown out without mentioning where they are getting their information from. How many thrift stores did they survey and which ones? You can't just state a statistic without evidence just because you are a fashion or environmental magazine/website.",
"It's good to know I've been working towards saving the planet by wearing my clothes until they're so tattered that I am literally forced to get rid of them because they no longer operate as functional clothing.",
"Hang on, hang on. \n\nI'm a dude and the last time I was in a Guess was when I was a teenager like 20 years ago watching my teenaged gf look at stuff. \n\nGuess is \"low cost\" now? Comparable to the 14 dollar H&M rack? When did this happen? Weren't Guess jeans moderately expensive at one time?",
"Somehow I imagine the same people complaining about global warming are the people that wear a shirt 7 times and throw it out.",
"Certainly possible. But don't place blame or hypocrisy on the individuals. Its the corporations and society that make it the norm.",
"No hobby shaming, my guy. It's their money, they can spend it how they want.\n\nThere are also tons of successful people who made an entire career out of beauty. The Kardashians are a prime example of being famous for not much else besides being beautiful. Models make a career out of it and are responsible for knowing fashion.\n\nAnd not every hobby has to turn into a career. People can just spend money for the sheer enjoyment of it. There are plenty of unfashionable people without cars or degrees, so there's no correlation there eiter.",
">Pretty sure he isn't saying \"don't use polyester fabric\".\n\nThe presenter didn't say that, but I will. A lot of polyester fabric makes me sweat like crazy. Nylon is a little better but not great. Natural fibers don't cause issues though. \n\nIf anyone has problems with excessive sweating, try switching to 100% cotton clothing.",
"Does a pair of socks count as one or two pieces? I throw out maybe 10 socks/yr. because of holes. I think I would be a lot closer to that number than I would care to admit even though most of what I wear is quite old.",
"I have shirts in my closet that have been around for 10 years...i still wear them lol",
"i watched to make sure he wasn't throwing shade at Depeche Mode",
"I haven’t bought a new piece of clothing in like a year 🙃",
"I haven't bought clothes in four years. Am I doing it wrong?",
"Yeah, Uniqlo is one of the only quality clothing stores around, too bad they're localized to big cities since they're a Japanese company.\n\nJapan has some of the best quality clothes, but they're expensive as hell.",
">The reason we have this disposable culture is because we make it really cheap to make garbage. We subsidize landfills, instead of passing on those costs to the people filling them, and BIG SURPRISE, that encourages waste.\n\nAny scheme like this will have you living knee deep in illegally dumped waste. However many people willingly pay in proportion to the garbage they make, plenty won't, and it's one of the easiest crimes to get away with.\n\nThe magical trucks that take away everyone's garbage and bury it for a collectivized cost are the difference between the litter problems you see in the first world and the third world.\n\nAnd this is all irrelevant to the topic because new clothes are too compact compared to their cost for any trash fee to be a deterrent. Hundreds of dollars of retail clothes can fit in one trash bag.",
"Agreed. It's both entertaining and informative. As soon as I found it, I binged them all.",
">Any scheme like this will have you living knee deep in illegally dumped waste.\n\nWe spend $51 billion dollars annually trying to stop the drug trade. I think we can spend a fraction of that finding and fining people who dump litter, and still come out ahead of the game.",
"> But you won't do that, because it's EASIER for YOU to PUNCH DOWN!\n\nWho the fuck is punching down at whom in your mind?\n\n\"People who want sustainable clothing products\"? \n\n\"People who want people to understand that we're burning limited resources for our own cheap and selfish needs\"?\n\n\"People who want their grandchildren to inherit an inhabitable world\"?\n\nIt's not \"punching down\" when you point out that you can buy clothes that last for a good long time for a good price without supporting garbage unsustainable business practices that demonstrably pollute the world in exceptionally observable ways in extraordinarily short time frames.\n\nThat's just \"observing factual reality\".\n\nGo shop at a fucking thrift store and shut the ever-loving-fuck up with your whiny victim attitude.",
"I mean they feel like they fit the same, but I just assume they are made of cheaper material. I mean they are $20 for a pair instead of the usual $55 for Levi's.",
"What do you mean “pills”? I’ve genuinely never heard that before. You mean peals or disintegrates? Btw one tip for making clothes last longer is to wash on delicate and to not use a dryer.",
"Trying. We can't even stop drugs from crossing international borders, it's similarly not easy to patrol the entire country's lonely roads and empty lots from every random yokel who can chuck trash out of a car in the dark. \n\nWith massive resources and draconian penalties you might stop most of it, but people might wonder whether there could have just been, like, tax incentives against wasteful products, instead of creating a litter crisis and declaring a perpetual war on it.\n\nMunicipalities in the developed world didn't all universally arrive at the idea of generously paying for peoples' garbage for no reason. There's simply trash everywhere until they spend enough money taking it away, and nobody wants trash everywhere. It's just the way it will always inevitably turn out.",
"It's a very small minority of people participating in that kind of fast fashion. Likely Instagram/Tik Tok reasons. People follow them to see different clothes in different places. Its a hobby to find new outfits to share out.\n\nMost other people are still unethically sourcing their clothes, but there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.",
"Clothing pills. Swallow one, and your body hair grows into a T shirt!",
"It's those little fluff balls that form on some fabrics as they wear out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pill_(textile)",
"**[Pill (textile)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pill_\\(textile\\))** \n \n >A pill, colloquially known as a bobble, fuzzball, or lint ball is a small ball of fibers that forms on a piece of cloth. Pill is also a verb for the formation of such balls. Pilling is a surface defect of textiles caused by wear, and is generally considered an undesirable trait. It happens when washing and wearing of fabrics causes loose fibers to begin to push out from the surface of the cloth, and, over time, abrasion causes the fibers to develop into small spherical bundles, anchored to the surface of the fabric by protruding fibers that haven't broken.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)",
"That EPA stat refers to \"unwanted\" clothing. Not necessarily donated clothing. and earlier in the article they said only 28% of people donated used clothing. Then you have to deal with the issue of disparity between amount of clothing that those 72% who don't donate might be going through compared to the 28% that do donate.\n\nI was in no way trying to advocate for fast fashion, just wondering how many people actually donate their clothing since it seems far better than throwing it away. I then felt the need to defend the idea of donating clothing since people (including the videomaker) love to through around percentages without backing.",
"Yeah I took it at that at first, but because I was arguing on the internet I went back over it lol.\n\nI think these articles are intentionally written to be easily misinterpreted to push an agenda. Now, this agenda is arguably a better once since it advocates for more sustainable living. But that doesn't mean there isn't an agenda there.\n\nI personally find it hard to support anyone that will misconstrue their own facts, such as the man in the video claiming 90% of donated clothing goes in the trash when at most his sources claim it to be 80% (and that's a shaky claim at best).",
"English is not my native language, can somebody explain to me what's the problem with the phrase\"content\". Should i just call it \"informativ\" to not trigger random internet anons?",
"DBGT Vegeta lookin muthafucka",
"> wearing my clothes until they're so tattered \n \nYep my mom gets annoyed when she sees me in my old, wrinkled t-shirts full of holes. I love wearing them as house shirts especially if they have been washed a thousand times. \n\nI told her I'm embodying the derelict look and she actually snapped back that Zoolander (yes she also calls Mugatu as Zoolander as well lol) only makes them for men. My sass is rubbing off on her...",
"I have shirts with holes under the armpits due to wear and tear lol",
"There are dozens of us!",
"Uniqlo is not expensive",
"This guys channel is under rated....",
"This guy is stupid. \"Some peoples wear something I dont like, they must be idiots\". HE is the idiot.",
"So you want they charge more than the cost... Yeah... Its a good idea... (NOPE)",
"Ordering on the internet takes a few seconds. What time do you need?",
"A ton of people",
"Bo Burnham literally wrote a song called content. It’s such a common term than your grandstanding is actually either an obvious troll or you’ve been in a cave for 10 years.",
"Congrats on clothing yourself with the sweat and blood of slaves, adults and children alike.",
"Congrats on clothing yourself with the sweat and blood of slaves, adults and children alike.",
"At what point when in every single industry americans have to told themselves \"I'm a consumer I can make choices to solve XX bad practices/problems/environnement/human violation\" will you guys realize YOU and YOUR way of life, and YOUR capitalism is the fucking problem ?",
"Really good documentary on the behind the scenes of fast fashion: **The True Cost**\n\nIt's on youtube and it's a must watch. I quit my job at a fast fashion company not long after watching it since it was all I could think about while I was at work and it was driving me into a depression, I couldn't be part of that hellcycle anymore.",
"Your context awareness is messed up",
"where are these $3 clothing articles? shit, I can hardly buy a pack of gum for that...",
"I wear my pants more than 7 times between washes….",
"You're actually wrong on this one. Pots can be scrubbed last in a full sink after a family of 4 days worth of dishes. That's at least three loads in a dish washer and at least one on heavy duty mode which uses considerably more water. Sure there are light use cases where dish washers use less but they aren't for households that are serious about washing dishes and saving water at the same time.",
"It's clear that the guy in the video was not deriding people for trashing non-functional clothes (e.g., socks with holes).",
"And **the average** American only wears each piece of clothing seven times? Show me the data. **The average** American buys over **70** pieces of clothing annually? Show me the data.",
"This is the way. This summer I noticed couple of holes in couple of t-shirts so I cut the sleeves off and boom! Sleeveless shirts for hot summer days. I looked like a bum, but now my guns are tanned.",
"\\>poor \n\\>haven't bought clothes in over 2 years\n\n \ni'm fine with this",
"Same here lol",
"Holy shit. Why?? \n\nMy wife and I maybe buy like... 5-6 articles of clothing a year.",
"Same. Someone is seriously fucking with our average. I blame the rich.",
"Ask your mom, she was there.\n\n*Boom! Roasted you! I'm so funny.*",
"What is fast fashion exactly ? Because even if I wanted to opt out, I legitimately don't know where to buy clothes outside of massive retailer and well established brands. \nI wanted to make a custom hoodie once, but not one that prints a photo or something like that, I wanted an entirely custom hoodie, had no clue where to even start looking",
"I only wear 501/511 and they're still going strong years after years.\n\nAre you using softeners ?",
"Did you not watch the video?",
"I know right, I have underwear older than my tween children. It's also why it's hard to find mens clothing at goodwill. They typically wear it until it becomes rags!",
"This is when you tear both sleeves off, and it becomes a sleeveless shirt. This is the way.",
"Hahaha, I did. On 2 shirts already, one is a band shirt the other is just an basic one.",
"If you are filling your sink to wash dishes that's about 15-20 gallons of water ( https://housecaravan.com/how-many-gallons-does-a-laundry-sink-hold/ ) \n\nand the pots and pans or heavy duty setting on a dish washer is about 9 gallons ( https://prudentreviews.com/how-much-water-does-a-dishwasher-use/ )\n\nSo dishwasher still wins and that's ignoring rinsing the dishes with clean water while hand washing.",
"I hate all of the cloth shoes. I wish they would go away. Give me leather back. ESPECIALLY the cloth dress shoes.",
"Damn. I'm sure you typed that on a piece of tech hardware that was 100% sustainably sourced and didn't rely on any cheap foreign labor.",
"I wear my clothes until they wear noticeably or tear in a way that doesn’t look cool. 😅",
"Fast fashion is not really some specific brands. If you follow those criteria, you are probably not part of the problem:\n\n* wear your stuff till it breaks, rather than donating it to places that will most likely throw it away\n* repair rather than buy new clothing.\n* Only buy the amount of clothing you really need. Don't buy each new collection just to be “in fashion”.\n* Buy rather 1 thing in high quality that lasts for a long time, then 10 items made poorly\n* If possible, buy from companies that produce environmentally friendly, they often focus on basics. Those are for the most part easy to combine with your existing wardrobe.",
"$20-$30 for a t-shirt is a lot to me",
"The same people who use the Jurassic Park font for a supposedly important video?",
"Absolutely! Best of luck in your studies. If you end up in Supply Chain MGMT or analysis after your degree for a technology or manufacturing firm, please do an AMA, lol",
"You can have fashion and beauty be your hobby without it being fast fashion, my homie. \n\nIn fact, most truly fashionable people avoid fast fashion like the plague, especially because it’s so cheap and seen as poverty-tier shit. Couture also has a very strong secondhand market, and it’s unlikely that your Rick Owens piece is ever going to see a landfill.",
"I’m in a family of six and our dishwasher very rarely gets used more than once a day. We don’t put the massive pots in usually, but we’re also not particularly trying to use the machine less. \n\nNot sure how you’d use it three times a day unless you’re being really careless with the spacings. \n\nDo you have a really small one or something?",
"That sounds really handy actually!",
"Yeah I couldn't say, for basic stuff like t shirts I just buy them at Costco. Same with sweaters and other things.",
"Fashion didn’t always have a short shelf life.",
"I’m legitimately curious to see what this shirt looks like.",
"Funny how he doesn't do that breakdown in the video!",
"You spent $1000 on a phone. A meme you saw doesn't then make a dumb thing not dumb. Also the word Meme is dumb.",
"5 Camera Iphone 14.",
"He's only making you use technology more. How's that helping?",
"Are you suggesting that we stop consuming all digital content? I'm so confused by what your angle is here, please help",
"You right now, responding, have use Mother Earth's precious energy. Go buy the next phone and forget that dozens of pit mines allow for the combination of precious metals in you battery and chipset just so you can Instagram. Or puke a meme at me.",
"I thought you were being sarcastic, so I made a lame comment – I *won* the shirt. That shirt, and one year of tuition to the college that ran the contest, was the prize.",
"This is when I'm happy I've left you this planet. I'm off so throw some plastic into the closest body of water. For you. Special flower.",
"I love how the video you link spends 6:09 minutes explaining that \"carbon footprint\" is made up by BP, and then at the 6:10 mark explains that it actually exists. \n\n[Yes its a real thing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ljs9_yIiY0), yes Americans can do little about it other than [having less kids](https://today.oregonstate.edu/archives/2009/jul/family-planning-major-environmental-emphasis). This is the only factual thing said in this video.\n\nYes BP has a vested interest in spreading this information but BP owning the entire responsibility because we helpless Americans can do little other than make less Americans, thats a bunch of hooy. At some point the world is going to need to collectively accept the reason these companies exist, is because we buy things from them. The second that stops, thats when it will change.",
"Yea my intention was to highlight how much of a peasant I am that I've held onto a shirt for 22 years for which I didn't even pay money.",
"Who is this privileged a-hole thinking The Gap sells clothes at \"bargain basement prices.\" So gross.",
"I bet much of the donated clothing that is sent to the landfill is crap and unsellable to begin with.",
"That’s a laundry sink not a kitchen sink. Kitchen sink is about 5 gallons",
" I don't really know gallons, just what I found, but here is a quote from the link I referenced \n> \"An average kitchen sink can hold 15 to 20 gallons depending on its size. You can find out how many gallons a sink can hold by the size of the sink itself.\"",
"Yeah, I don't get this at all. I've had a 7 dollar tanktop from H&M for almost 9 years now and it's still in perfect shape and the color hasnt even faded. All fast fashion pieces I've owned I've kept for a long time or just sold on marketplace/gave away for free.\n\nIt sounds like the issue is more with some people who buy (and throw out) their clothes rather than the manufacturing process alone. They wouldn't keep pumping shit out if people didn't keep buying it. That being said, media has a huge influence and essentially brainwashes some people in to \"needing\" the latest thing.",
"Are you doing your gallon measurements by imagining how many gallons of milk you could fit in it?",
"Just posted above that I've owned a tank top from them for around 9 years now and it's still in perfect condition despite being washed and worn fairly regularly. \n\nI have a few sweaters, t-shirts and dresses from them as well that are still in fine condition. And the longest lasting pair of jeans I ever bought was from Old Navy lol I've had them for 6 years now.",
"What clothing do you buy that's so superior? I'm curious what you think are better alternatives that are also affordable. Other than thrifting (which I love), I can't think of anything.",
"I’m not a plumber, an kitchen or laundry room designer or a person who can sells sinks. I’m not even sure how they are made. I’ve never installed sinks, but I admit I could figure it out. \n\nI wouldn’t know a Trane made sink from a Koeller made sink.\n\nHowever,\n\nThe first line in the article you provided says “One of the common questions asked when purchasing a laundry sink is how many gallons does it hold”\n\nThe second line says “When searching for the ideal size and style of the sink to install in your laundry room”\n\nThe picture in the article is that of a laundry sink.\n\nThe http link you provided actually says https://housecaravan.com/how-many-gallons-does-a-laundry-sink-hold/\n\nMaybe I’m missing something and my overflow drain is plugged, but I’m pretty sure that’s a laundry sink in that link.",
"You're completely right that people believe this, but there are also bad actors on the internet that amplify and echo that bullshit.\n\nAt the end of the day, the response is the same—yours was perfect.",
"Two wongs doesn't make a right. There are no alternative regarding hardware nowadays. Contrary to clothing.",
"I am exploring ways to minimize carbon footprint while being fashionable. Please take the poll r/fashioneco"
] | 215 |
videos
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Fast Fashion Is Hot Garbage | Climate Town
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https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qqahin/deleted_by_user/
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/r/videos/comments/qqahin/deleted_by_user/
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[
"As an editor, I'd love to know what was novel about any of these editing techniques. Always looking for new tricks.",
"I don't get it",
"Yawn."
] | 3 |
videos
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[deleted by user]
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https://youtu.be/wnC43ee6_QM
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/r/videos/comments/qqat3k/horse_rollercoaster/
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[
"Poor horses",
"Wait until they can get drivers out of race cars, and use computers to drive instead. It'd be for the same reason, to eliminate human error and push the sport to the max potential of the cars, and really show what engineers are capable of.",
"Wow awesomw.",
"damn, fuck this.",
">Young horses being \"developed\"\n\nSums up, everything I need to know to be against this \"sport\".",
"That sounds fucking dope",
"They don’t look very poor they look like a bunch of fat cat capitalists",
"It's to prevent training errors but wouldn't this just mean if a horse trips or breaks stride, it will be dragged by inertia?",
"Ew.",
"I was waiting for a loop-de-loop",
"The Titanic post?",
"The ultra-wealthy are fucking weird.",
"I think the designers are smarter than that",
"I'm reminded of that one time spring breakers made a donkey go paragliding",
"Disgusting",
"They already are. Here's the MIT team: \n\n\nhttp://driverless.mit.edu/",
"As a small-town lawyer, I don't know much about the ethics of horse rollercoasters. All I do know for sure is that I would pay up to $40 for a ride on that fancy horse rollercoaster!",
"ngl, i bet the horses love it",
"I think you've misunderstood. This rollercoaster is for members of the barn, not members of the bar.",
"Well, sir, if that is indeed the case, then I do sincerely beleive we have ourselves a litigation on our hands. This injustice shall not stand as long as I am just a small-town lawyer.",
"So Fancy Marketing Translation: We hope one dude, a machine and 10 horses will reduce the cost of potential race horses (1 horse=1 trainer)? Sounds like the latest in a long line of tech going back to laser disc that we will never hear from again. :)",
"It looked like there's gates at the back that swing open if the horse slows down.",
"That’s so rad!",
"Fuck horse racing. Just roll some marbles down a hill.",
"Well that certainly doesn't sound exclusive. What would be the point then?",
"But with car racing, only some of the fun is the engineering. Some (most?) Of it is also seeing what the drivers can do. Razor close margins are not nearly as impressive when a computer calculates it",
"For sure, seeing the human potential is definitely huge, though I would love to see if a computer could push the cars more, make them go faster and be more extreme in turns and passes, basically maneuvers that would be too much of a risk for a person to do. Ultimately I want races like speed racer but that’s a huge stretch, lol",
"Looks like the lesser of two evils. If the alternative is to have a jockey whipping the horse until it breaks down and then gets sent to the knackery this looks better than the current status quo. \n\nI don't like hose racing, but this does appear to be better for the animals welfare. Even better if it's successful and then puts the existing trainers out fo business. If we can't get rid of horse racing we should at least support anything that makes it better for the animals.",
"I couldn't stop thinking that if a horse fell over when that machine is going fast, that horse is sure to die.",
"What happens when a horse falls at the max speeds?",
"Foalercoaster",
"what happens if an animal trips while in this ?!?!?",
"What, no loops?",
"I'm sure the machine has built-in captive bolt guns to avoid any discomfort for injured horses. Then it can have a rail siding to drop them into a shredder for composting. These people care so much for these animals that they wouldnt want to see them in pain....or spend money which would probably never do good for another living organism on this planet besides themselves",
"\rIt's almost like dragging your kids to a sport they hate every day to train, but no one complains about that...",
"nice, horse rollercoaster is on my apocalypse bingo card.",
"Or, you know, maybe lets consider the alternative of simply ending this “sport”.",
"They're strapped in with some kind of harness that goes around their body. \n\nWith the whole point of the machine being to reduce injuries. You'd think they'd have something in place for if a horse falls.",
"Your kid won't get killed and sent to a butcher for refusing to play the sport or doing poorly..",
"too much money is involved- never going to happen.",
"I thought it was really good CGI for a while.",
"What happened to the ones who don't make it? Glue factory?",
"Wasn’t that kind of the argument with slavery",
"Surprise appearance by Rob Brydon at 1:06",
"[I mean, it's actually very entertaining...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPU0nyTUTI8)",
"Just don't watch it?",
"Probably hit the brakes",
"[A trip to the glue factory?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4EV11JRIZA)",
"…which leads to horse injuries. Like they said it out loud explicitly. did you even watch the video you posted?",
"How about we don’t make animals do shit for our entertainment. Ban horse racing entirely imo.",
"When you're wealthy it's called eccentric.",
"Imagine writing that and thinking it’s a valid argument.",
"\"It's aim by removing jockeys is to remove human error from early training of young race horses. Mistakes can be costly.\"\n\nThey're talking about injuries. The guy the interview right after that even expands on this. \"A lot of young horses have injuries in the beginning of training because they're not ready to start the real training.\" This thing is supposed to get them ready for the \"real training\" to prevent injuries.",
"Who says anyone here wants to argue with you?",
"[ **Jump to 01:06 @** Is this the future of racehorse training?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnC43ee6_QM&t=0h1m6s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: ITV News, Video Popularity: 57.44%, Video Length: [02:16])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@01:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnC43ee6_QM&t=0h1m1s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)",
"It is eliminated from the game",
"I need the human version at my gym",
"If only there were some way to increase the...horse power, let's call it. Imagine if we could have the power of 50 or even 100 horses in a much smaller package that doesn't enslave animals. One can only imagine such technology.",
"> If the alternative is to have a jockey whipping the horse until it breaks down\n\nThe horses can cost as much as a house, and training fees can cost the same amount. They really, and I mean really don't want to hurt the horses. \n\nIt is all an investment (plus prestige), but race horses are some of the best looked after animals in the world. Yes they are worked hard, and when they break legs it is super terrible but I'd rather be a race horse than a pig or a cow stuck in a tiny pen, just to be killed and eaten.\n\nThis is not to say it's all above board, or that people can't be terrible, but the sperm can cost $50k+ on its own. Then if you don't own the mare you have to pay for that as well. Horse breeders spend TONS of money even before a horse is born.\n\nBut if you horse wins? And wins a lot? Millions and millions in profit.\n\nAmerican Pharaoh the 2014 Triple Crown winner sperm cost $200,000 per impregnation.\n\nTapit brought in $16.8 million in 2014 for its owners.\n\nAgain, I'm not saying animal abuse doesn't happen, but the horses aren't just pushed super hard and they see which ones make it and which ones die. Each and everyone is a large investment, with a lot of time and energy involved. \n\nAlso \"whipping\":\n\n>The whips used in horse racing are lightweight and made with soft foam. Jockeys strike their horses to encourage them to run, and hitting them with the whip creates a popping sound that makes a horse focus.\n\n>The modern whip is designed to create noise, not pain. Recently a reporter from the Guardian allowed a jockey to hit him with a whip as hard as the rider hits a horse and found it wasn’t painful. Click here to read his article.\n\n[source](https://horseracingsense.com/why-jockeys-hit-horses-whipping-run-faster/)",
"The sperm for the horse can cost tens of thousands of dollars. The top horses sperm cost 200K+. \n\nIf the horse have a good breeding line they just will be used for breeding and kept for that. They have extensive family lines that go back hundreds of years.\n\nThey don't just kill the horses when they aren't the fastest. They are still worth a lot of money, even if they never win a race.\n\nedit: And even if they have a crap breeding line it's still a former race horse. They can still be sold for quite a bit for people who just want a fancy horse.\n\nMost horses that are slaughtered are from regular people overbreeding their horses, not being able to take care of them, and needing to get rid of them and/or having them taken from them.\n\nIt's the same as dogs. Super expensive dogs aren't the ones being killed in shelters. It's the random ones from people who don't get their dogs neutered that causes most of the problems.",
"Why? The horses are generally treated really well, and horses like to run.\n\nI mean regulate the crap out of it, and make sure end of life care is amazing, but race horses are some of the best kept animals in the world.\n\nTop racehorses are worth in the tens of millions. Okay ones can still be worth millions. You better believe that they are well taken care of and that everything is done to make sure they stay healthy.\n\nIf a horse of a farm breaks its leg they will kill it that day. If a great racehorse breaks its leg they put it in a special multimillion dollar water tank thing so that its leg can properly heal and it won't be killed. It will never race again, but its sperm is still valuable and so the animal is helped to heal and then kept for the rest of its life.\n\nThe main issue is poor breading practices which can result in weak leg bones and heart issues. (Same exact issue as dog breading). That's what kills most horses. Again something that can be regulated.\n\nBasically I'm really surprised that people in this thread are so anti-horse racing while most are probably not anti-factory meat. Say 500 racehorses die each year from accidents. 30-40,000,000 cattle are killed every year in the US. Cows naturally live to be 18-22 years old. They are killed generally at 1-2 years old. In 2019 about 120,000,000 pigs were killed. Again way way younger than their natural life spans.\n\nSure fight to ban horse racing, but it's kinda hilarious to ban that while allowing hundreds of millions of other just as smart animals to be killed each year.\n\nAnd again most deaths are from bad breading, but there are no laws stopping dog/cat owners from buying/breading dogs/cats that suffer every minute of their lives because of bad breading. Pugs can't breath, it's not cute, it's torture. Not to mention a bunch of the messed up breads have lifespans 50-80% shorter than a healthy dog/cat.\n\nIt's just pure hypocrisy to me to bash on horse racing because it's flashy, and ignore all the other much much bigger issues with how we treat animals.",
"Remember 8 Bells! Ban that shit!",
"Horses have a limited number of races in them because they basically are bred to push themselves to the point where they do themselves some injury. \n\nThey're cared for well insofar as they get good nutrition and intense veterinary care, but from a medical perspective they get loads of drugs to protect their breathing, but the testing for steroids isn't anything like a rigorous USADA or WADA effort. Race horses often get steroid treatments to improve their race day performance, especially in the lower leagues where there is less monitoring.\n\nRace horses are not well treated overall. There's heaps of money in it and it's not there for the welfare of the horses. \n\nHeck, it's a common practice to stick an endoscope down a horses nose to look down it's upper respiratory tract after a race to see if they have a bleed going in their lungs after a race.\n\nThose things push themselves so hard that it's somewhat common for them to bleed from their lungs.",
"They're saying it's for the horses' safety but it's honestly just cutting cost of paying riders to train them individually and instead training and conditioning them on a wholesale level.\n\nMassive profits come first, the safety is just the bonus on top and is delicious PR talking points.",
"Some new inventions are weird, like why wasnt this already done 50 years ago? its not nano science, megarich are bored?",
"Well a rollercoaster with 10 horses strapped to it doesnt trample them for sure",
"Well that’s a thing I’d never think of being a thing😬",
"Yeah because if a horse trips it gets dragged to death by the murder coaster.",
"Why are the red trails on the track mommy?",
"Im sure the thing they are investing in would be designed to prevent something like that from happening, race horses are hella expensive to raise and maintain. Like I said, money comes first to these kinda people.",
"So when a horse breaks a leg they do surgery and physical therapy right?",
"No one should use animals for sport. They should get off their own fat asses and start running.",
"This was the name of my band in college…",
"TBH that phrase can be used with human athletes as well",
"Yeah, but they can articulate themselves and aren't euthanized when they are deemed unfit for the profession",
"Those were not in your comment I reacted to, tho",
"> \"It's key to the owners that the animals' wellbeing comes first.\"\n\nIf wellbeing came anywhere close to first these people wouldn't be into horse racing. They'd be funding sanctuaries and finding something else to do on the weekend.",
"Yeah.. that was only ended after the most devastating war in US history.",
"Wellbeing while still participating in our entertainment.",
"\"I'll make the best decisions for their welfare, unless it's more fun for me and my friends to make worse ones.\"",
"Whole point of the machine is not to reduce injuries but to reduce human error in training. That is to say to increase chances of rich people to get more rich. Nothing more to it.",
"That you know of...",
"yes officer this man right here",
"I'm just going to copy and paste my previous post that you missed.\n\n\"It's aim by removing jockeys is to remove human error from early training of young race horses. Mistakes can be costly.\" They're talking about injuries.\n\nThe guy the interview right after that even expands on this. \"A lot of young horses have injuries in the beginning of training because they're not ready to start the real training.\" This thing is supposed to get them ready for the \"real training\" to prevent injuries."
] | 85 |
videos
|
Horse Rollercoaster
|
https://youtu.be/oCgVB70zko8
|
/r/videos/comments/qqat5b/the_goalkeeper_came_out_of_the_box_and_caught_the/
|
[
"I don't watch soccer, help me out here, once the goalie leaves the box, he cant use his hands anymore?",
"Nope it's handball outside the box, hence the red ^^ \n\nIf it wasn't you would just have your keeper in the opposing teams box for every corner for the free volleyball goal.",
"But he was inside the box?",
"no he was outside, just barely. You can tell if you watch his \"landing\" closely, he started the jump from the other side of the line",
"He catched the ball from outside.",
"That's correct. That's the whole reason the goal box exists - to define the space in which the goalie can use his hands. Outside the box he's just another player like the others.",
"Lol so when touching the ball while airborne, its where you start the jump that matters, not where you land?",
"actually now that I read up on it, I think it's literally where hand and ball make contact, so in the air.",
"Interesting, every other sporting instance i can think of its where you land that matters. Thanks",
"so in football or whatever, when the ball is in the air outside the sideline, and someone grabs it from inside and pulls it back in, it technically never left the field? Is it the same in basketball?\n\n-e- oh and consider this: If the ball is outside the penalty box, but the keeper is inside, he can't grab it. Can't really do that when you decide by the position of the keeper instead of the ball",
"In basketball I believe if a player is out of bounds but the ball is in play, they can't be the first one to touch the ball upon returning inbounds. They are allowed to to catch the ball midair, however, to prevent a back court violation as long as they land on the correct side of half court (more like the soccer example here)",
"Yes that part i get, but when he touched the ball he was either midair, or just having landed inside the box. Apparently in soccer whats important is the touching location (even if midair), not the landing location."
] | 13 |
videos
|
The goalkeeper came out of the box and caught the ball and got a red card
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zppKxiIPiA
|
/r/videos/comments/qqb7c4/breaking_down_the_metaverse/
|
[
"So will Neal Stephenson sue for infringement?",
"who dat?",
"He coined the term 'metaverse' in his book Snow Crash, basically predicting everything FB/Zuckerberg is trying to create.\n\nIt's a great book by the way. If you like sci-fi/cyber punk reads you should check it out- it's a classic."
] | 3 |
videos
|
Breaking down the metaverse
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot_V7Q8a6yc
|
/r/videos/comments/qqbxse/bryan_cranstons_super_sweet_60/
|
[
"That was fantastic!",
"They must have had so much fun putting that together.",
"Cranston is always great but that's a long ass sketch."
] | 2 |
videos
|
Bryan Cranston's Super Sweet 60
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krtn0m_42l4
|
/r/videos/comments/qqc28z/how_to_make_a_jail_house_fifi/
|
[
"He should patent that and go on Shark Tank.",
"Mark Cuban- “Now, you mentioned it’s reusable. Am I supposed to cum inside of the glove and replace it each time, or do I cum outside and wipe it up with the sock?",
"The guy is a great teacher",
"You know, most people don't find their passion in life. They just bounce from one distraction to the next. But here's a man who found his: making ad-hoc pocket pussies from household items, and educating people on how to make their own. Lee Williams, shine on. The world is truly a better place for the light you give it.",
"Put cho little THANG in there",
"Can’t wait for part 2",
"Yo little Vienna Sauwsage myang"
] | 7 |
videos
|
How to make a jail house fiFi
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7XfKf46iZY
|
/r/videos/comments/qqc37n/jason_colacino_and_katie_boyle_honky_tonk/
|
[
"Those hips don't lie.",
"Oh they fucking",
"I just googled them, they both died in the same day.?",
"West coast swing is so diverse in the music you can dance to. Love it. \n\nOther end of the spectrum \n\nhttps://youtu.be/OyzBC7OOups",
"The guy in the back when he swung her up to his shoulder had me dying. That guy was so into this.",
"I’ve been doing country swing and west coast swing for about 5 months now, and been absolutely addicted to learning more. \n\nThis routine was wild to watch, trying to deconstruct how the did those moves",
"No. Some algorithm pulled his obit in response to a question about her. He died. She didn't.",
"He must work out.",
"This guy fucks.",
"I like how the woman is sexy and skinny while the dude's thick and got shoulders like a linebacker because he has to have the strength to pick her up and swing her around."
] | 10 |
videos
|
Jason Colacino and Katie Boyle - Honky Tonk
|
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