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train · 591k rows

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https://youtu.be/22DYWakFLXk	/r/videos/comments/rdrnav/12102021_hayti_mo_massive_wedge_tornado_close/	[ "This tornado is still ongoing and has caused major damage in multiple states. Records may be broken tonight", "What a horrific storm.", "OMG! Scary and at night too, hope people remain safe from the danger 😱 Great capture in the video though.", "Did anyone have nocturnal tornadoes on their apocalypse bingo?", " There’s currently (11:00pm)what look to be a pretty bad tornado just (if not right top) of Bremen,KY. This cell I believe is the one from the video." ]	5	videos	12-10-2021 Hayti, MO - Massive Wedge Tornado CLOSE Range - Semi Rolled on I55
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rdrz60/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rdrz60/deleted_by_user/	[ "Everything new is old.", "Hey everyone, this is the guy I was telling you about! He's that one guy on the internet that has all the answers and everyone else has no idea what they're talking about!", "What if JFK assassinated himself? Ever noticed in every footage we never see his hands when we hear the gun shots? Coincidence?", "Every country has crazy people, and while many countries lack good mental health provisions, America is unique among developed nations in its open access to lethal weapons." ]	4	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/ZGsShbksRjI	/r/videos/comments/rdsgxb/12102021_hayti_moclose_range_intercept_of_large/	[ "\"lotsa wind\"\n\nGee, really, ya think?", "That is straight up terrifying, esp ~1:20", "Is it a wedge?" ]	3	videos	12-10-2021 Hayti, MO-Close Range Intercept of Large Significant Tornado Crossing I-55
https://youtu.be/crITXzMW0do	/r/videos/comments/rdt90z/hes_just_so_damn_talented/	[ "turk turkleton", "Cant believe he stole the Fortnite dance. /s", "According to the Fake Doctors Real Friends Podcast this dance was all Donald Faison. They asked him to come up with something for the song and he already had this ready to go from his childhood. And he only needed one take.", "such a good podcast!", "It's what his mama called him, it's what I'll call him.", "I just realized that he points to an imaginary watch on right wrist while wearing a real watch on his left.", "came to say the same thing, you beat me by 3 mins", "Makes the scene so much better. Scrubs is brilliant", "This is of those cases where the /s saved your life", "Rip Ted", "I will never not find that funny.", "This is actually better than the dancing in the original bel biv devo video. Great show.", "Faison is super talented. Not only a great actor with amazing comedic timing, but he can dance, and when you listen to FDRF, he is a damn good singer too. Dude could probably crush it on broadway.", "And have you seen his son??? He looks like a shrunk down Donald with an afro", "I'm a huge Scrubs fan. Watched every episode as they came out, bought the entire box set, etc. I think this is one of my top 5 favorite scenes for the entire series.", "Time to binge Scrubs again. Such a brilliant show.", "Found my song of the day! Thanks!", "And MRS. Turkleton!", "Daammn Turkle-daaawwwgg you got brinner!? \nMy favorite line ever!", "Turk holds so many of my [favorite moments.](https://youtu.be/aulMugbS_-A)", "Man I miss this show so much, gonna do another rewatch.", "Was this supposed to be funny?", "Redditors can't pick up on sarcasm otherwise.", "RIP", "You could tell in “My Musical” he’s got some pipes. The rest of the cast kind of struggles with high notes but Donald nails them", "I used to reply with very overt sarcasm to comments that complain about people using /s(on an older acc). Not once did they pick up on it on their own. Fun times.", "This show was amazing. 8 Perfect seasons. Worthy of a true revival.", "Song: Bel Biv Davoe - Poison", ">favorite moments.\n\n\"Why are there pancakes in the silverware drawer?\"", "I was going to link that one!", "Yup. 8 seasons, a perfect finale, and nothing more.", "You’re getting downvoted but honestly a lot of the humor comes from watching the show and knowing the characters. Out of context this scene probably elicits a half-chuckle and not much more.", "Hmph!", "Top 5, it’s so hard…\n\nI can't do it, Elliot! You know, I tried! I tried but it hurts too bad. It hurts me deep right here. I can feel it in my chest. That man went to Disneyland without me! They got roller coasters that roller-coaster in the dark, okay? You don't where the turns are coming from. They've got the Finding Nemo ride where you're riding 'round with Nemo. And it's a ride! A ride with Nemo!", "If only you had a fake watch on your right wrist to help you keep time", "And if I remember correctly he was super hungover or still drunk from the night before. It’s so hilarious to me that in the early seasons Zach and Donald daily they were sweating vodka the entire time.", "Oh is that what I'm doing all day today? YouTube scrubs rabbit hole?", "Something is wrong with my brain. I read \"box set\" as \"sex bot\" and was wondering if they made a Turk sex bot.", "How good was Sam Lloyd as a straight man?! RIP", "This might be one of my favorite little things from Scrubs. Kelso was the best.", "Can't really steal a dance move. Can only copy it.", "I’ve never played Fortnite but it’s the “default dance”. Someone tried to sue Fortnite for putting their dance in the game and apparently dance moves can’t be copyrighted. I know which kids dance they stole but trying to explain it is hard. I’ll try Google “Fortnite dances” brb\n\nEdit. orange shirt kid tried to sue Epic games for taking it. https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/fortnite/2019/1/15/18183761/fortnite-dance-orange-shirt-kid-lawsuit-epic-games", "It’s Guy love between two guys", "No. No revival. \n\nThe finale was perfect.", "rips hair out of scalp", "My wife and I constantly reference it and regularly have brinner.", "#1 favorite of all time. To this day, if my wife challenges me in some competitive way, this is my response.", "Man, I've watched Scrubs 4 times. After Ted's passing away, I just don't have the heart anymore.", "His mum did*\n\nHe originally put his dance forward for a chance for it to be in the game. \n\nHe didn't win but the community wanted it in. \n\nSo, they released it later. He was happy about it." ]	50	videos	He's just so damn talented
https://youtu.be/xd6bhfgFw2Q	/r/videos/comments/rdtnlf/i_love_you_chelsea/	[ "For someone so important you might want to do a bit of spell checking on this video. There are a number of things that are not spelled correctly", "Yeah now tell him that 13 years ago before he sends it to her", "Lmfao this isn’t me", "What gave that away? The 13yr old video you posted or the lack of context?" ]	4	videos	I love you Chelsea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5TaYFi4UVA	/r/videos/comments/rdtxmz/hank_azaria_breaks_down_his_iconic_simpsons/	[ "How can they not even show the clip of him from the first movie they mention?", "Holy shit, he is right. no matter what baseball announcers say as long as they give give an update is to the game is ok. you could be talking about how you ran over your cat leaving your house on the way to the game. And there is a drive deep to left by Castellanos making it a 4-0 ballgame", "Hank just seems like an all round super cool dude.\n\nThis was an enjoyable watch.", "I LOVE Mystery men, and no one I talk to has seen it. \"thats a herkamer battle jitney! the most powerful non leathal vehicle ever CREATED!\" the sphinx, i have heard hes TERRIBLY mysterious! psycho fraculating captain amazing was fucking bonkers for my 10 year old brain. \"hey dad im going to go to my room with 3 strange men!\" so good. \"you dress in the manner of a male prostitute...\" doesnt that make you angry!?!?", "liberals relished getting rid of him", "To the Disco room!", "Oh right, he was the Blue Raja!! Never realized that...", "You are not alone. It's an amazing movie.", "He might not be one of the most famous actors but I've known him since I was 12, first time in Godzilla 1998. He's very recognizable.", "just brushed right over Apu lol", "Yeah I wonder how he's doing in that Siberian gulag", "Thom Brennaman enters the chat…", "It was almost certainly his choice. He's spoken at length about his decision not to voice the character any longer, so it's not surprising that he doesn't want to celebrate it.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7iG4nx9I74", "Apu's omission is truely very sad.", "Godzilla is a great movie!", "He chose to stop voicing that character. Stop looking for victims.", "I was hoping he'd talk about being Arnolds grandpa from Hey Arnold.", "lol. yea he totally did that on his own.", "It’s ja shoes!", "He did." ]	21	videos	Hank Azaria Breaks Down His Iconic Simpsons Voices and Movie Roles
https://vimeo.com/655591576	/r/videos/comments/rdu05u/joji_stops_his_show_to_help_fan_who_fainted/	[ "I’m not the one yelling fuck Travis Scott by the way lol", "Not taking any chances after astroworld", "I think he would have done this regardless. The awareness might be higher now, but I don't think he would ignore someone fainting either way" ]	3	videos	Joji stops his show to help fan who fainted
https://youtu.be/q6SEV-UmH4Y	/r/videos/comments/rdu19s/if_someone_made_wholegrain_fairy_bread/	[ "for those unaware (which I’m guessing is most people outside of Aus & NZ), fairy bread is just bread with butter or margarine spread and sprinkles. Commonly served at children’s birthday parties. And usually made with plain white bread.\n\nI never understood it personally, thought it looked at tasted awful.\n\nNevertheless thought this skit was crack up.", "I made it for my daughter just recently. It wasn't as good as I remember. Infact it was Sh#t", "Pretty sure it’s always been just a cheap way to make the kids think they’re getting something special.", "Totally, left over cake sprinkles on white bread", "Yeh I gotta say fairy bread sounds pretty foul. Sprinkles taste like awful waxy bullshit and white bread and butter can’t help much I imagine.", "If you gave me raw margarine and sprinkles on any type of bread I'd just go home.", "this is my favourite video that they've made" ]	7	videos	If someone made wholegrain fairy bread
https://youtu.be/6Y5dgQRISX8	/r/videos/comments/rduqej/this_is_how_single_celled_organism_dies/	[ "RIP", "Sure, but what caused it?", "That did not look natural" ]	3	videos	This is how Single celled Organism Dies
https://youtu.be/BQCbJOwA51k	/r/videos/comments/rdw97m/lördagsgodis_swedens_delicious_saturday_tradition/	[ "Candy is a big thing in all of Scandinavia + the Netherlands. In Denmark it can be either a friday or a saturday event depending on the family.", "Loved learning about the history of this tradition! Growing up in Sweden, my family always had candy on Saturday night. And maybe some leftover potato chips on Sunday morning if we were lucky!\n\nSidenote: Not cool of BBC to show that woman's debit card so clearly in the video.", "The study they refer to is in fact even less ethical even than is said. They developed a special type of sweet (Vipeholmskola) to ensure tooth dégradation. Those who were given it every day essentially had their teeth rot off. Worse yet, the patients were in the care of the government due to severe mental handicaps.", "This tradition is normal in Norway too. At least for kids. I only give my son sweets on saturdays.", "I'm swedish and sure lördagsgodis is a thing, but it's more of a way to keep kids from eating candy all week. I don't really care about lördagsgodis, it's not a big thing.\n\nWe also have lillördag which translates to \"small saturday\", which is an excuse to get drunk in the middle of the week.", "Yep, same here in Finland. Saturday is candy day - we even have candy brand called Lauantaipussi (Lördagspåse). We also call wednesday \"small saturday\", pikkulauantai!", "I'm Swedish and yes, this is how it is för all Swedish children. Candy on Saturday. No one would question or change that.\n\nHowever, as an adult I eat candy or pastries or whatever when I feel like it. One of the perks of growing up. What prevents me from being a total glutton is that I need to control my calorie intake for my weight, my dental health is not the prime concern.\n\nBut for our children, it's absolutely candy on Saturday until they're old enough to do what they want, but at that time the tradition is so strong in them that they will teach their own future children the same thing.\n\nAll in all, it's all good.", ">but it's more of a way to keep kids from eating candy all week\n\nThat's kind of what the video explains.\n\n>I don't really care about lördagsgodis, it's not a big thing.\n\nI'd say a country-wide tradition dating back to post-ww2 IS a big thing, tbh.", "Ya, I was really surprised about that when I moved here. Where I'm from, candy is mostly something that kids are into. I went on a roadtrip with my friends from Norway and on the way back we stopped in Sweden and my friends stocked up on an ungodly amount of candy (due to the sugar tax in Norway). I really don't get it personally, as an adult I have very little interest in candy anymore, it just tastes boring to me now.", "Yes, it was appalling. But it's good to keep in mind that an experiment like that could never happen today.", "I'm from Norway too, I just thought this was normal everywhere. This went candy and sodas when I was a kid. I try to be somewhat healthy, so I still reserve candy, sugary drinks, and junk food mostly to weekends, and I feel a little guilt enjoying any of these during the weekdays. One of the fun parts of growing up is you can do almost whatever you want with yourself, but not so fun part is that you hopefully know the consequences of it.", "As far as unethical experiments, I think giving candy to mental patients is on the milder end of the spectrum.", "> As far as unethical experiments, I think giving candy to mental patients is on the milder end of the spectrum.\n\nIt wasn't just \"here have some sweets\", it was the most sticky sugary candy you could make. \n\n----\n\nVipeholm, outside Lund, was the country’s largest facility for \"__uneducable retards__\" and was chosen to be the site of the largest experiment ever run on humans in Sweden at that time. Up until 1947, Vipeholm employees had also been part of the experiment, but this was stopped, since it was soon found that there was no way of monitoring their intake of sweets.\n\nWhat began in 1945 as government-sanctioned vitamin trials were converted in 1947 without the knowledge of the government. The researchers decided, in consultation with the Medical Board, to start to use sugar instead, to encourage tooth decay by using an extremely sweet and sticky diet.\n\nFrom 1947–1949, a group of patients were used as subjects in a full-scale experiment designed to bring about tooth decay. They were fed copious amounts of sweets, __some which was not available commercially but specially formulated toffee to make it stick better to teeth, which resulted in many of them having their teeth completely ruined__. Nonetheless, the researchers felt that, scientifically speaking, the experiment was a huge success.\n\n[source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipeholm_experiments)", "Now that's a very dangerous assumption right there. People are monsters, and will behave like monsters of they're not held accountable. Never forget that.", "Same here in Norway! What are the odds?", "I'm swedish. The extent of spicy Swedish food is salt and pepper on any old dish.\n\nGoing to an Indian or Thai place here and getting the spiciest option on the menu would probably kill me.", "He already forgot that. Don’t mind him let him believe that dumb shit.", "Almost all (if not actually all) debit cards in sweden can only be used togheter with a pin, or with the rfid, or online with 2FA (there is a standard called Bank Id which most use). So, while I agree, prob not an issue. 🙂", "Ah, Swedish social democrats at their worst.\n\nhttps://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Petr%C3%A9n", "Exactly.", "> essence as a people\n\nSeriously? Could you be any more racist?", "Its just a joke.\n\nTraditional Swedish foods aren't very spicy, is all.", "Are kids forced to eat up all sweets on Saturday, so they don't hide some for eating during the week? It's funny to imagine a Swedish parent yelling at their kids: \"You eat the sweats now!\"", "No, they can sparse it out however they want. It's just that a parent won't buy anything more until Saturday.", "It just goes to show how similar every nordic country is, except Denmark.", "> that SIFR thought that the literal idea of a \"people\" held any scientific merit and that it therefore could be \"cleaned\" and improved.\n\nAgain going back to the Swedish social democrat Swedish social democrat Alfred Petrén.", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Educational_Center\n\nSure thing dude", "Yeah, grown-ass Norwegian adult, and it's deeply ingraining in me that all unhealthy food & drinks are restricted to Saturday and mayyybe Friday.", "Most kids are pretty terrible at impulse control aren't they? Most of them will probably eat it all on the same day.", "Nej, jag tänker inte låta mig mobbas till att tolerera att socialdemokraternas initiativtagande del i det här raderas från historien.", "There's tonnes of little traditions around the world that are super neat when you consider them.\n\nFor Christmas I always got an orange in my stocking which was tradition because even when my parents were growing up, getting an orange was a rare and a special occasion reserved only for Christmas. You can go to the store and get an orange any time you want now, but the tradition continues.\n\nA lot of people around me are 1st or 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants who don't have that Christmas orange tradition, but have their own which are equally neat.", "Hade ingen aning om detta, super intressant. Tror inte det var något jag någonsin lärde mig i skolan..", "Checks out. They have the most dentists per capita.", "I can almost guarantee you that you are from America, where sugar is LOADED into every single piece of food you'll ever eat. Countries with healthier diets usually have low to no sugar at all in their products, and this is the case for Scandinavian countries. That's the reason sweets taste boring to you. It's because you eat them so regularly you become desensitized to it.", "Making a lot of incorrect assumptions here. I'm not even a little bit American and if my experience here is anything to go off then the diet with which I grew up is significantly healthier than the average person's diet here. You shouldn't speak on topics about which you know nothing. It's just boring to me because it's boring, there's no depth or nuance of flavour, it's literally just sugar, gelatin, fat, acid, salt etc in various combinations. Chocolate can be pretty good depending on the quality but that's about it.", "As a nutritionist I actually know a LOT on this subject lol. This is usually the case for most people who think sugar is bland. Usually the cause is a diet high in sugar", "Let's say, you go out to dinner at Wednesday, could you eat the dessert? Or no Tiramisù for you?", "Well you don't know anything about me, my upbringing, or my nationality. Anyway, I never said it was bland, I said it was boring. I could add an excessive amount of salt to my food and it wouldn't be bland but it would definitely have a very boring and unpleasant taste. Is there any evidence to suggest that people who grow up with a low sugar diet later seek candy as an adult? Because that sounds extremely dubious to me. Also, Scandinavians actually do consume a relatively high amount of sugar per capita, not as high as countries like the US but even in the West they consume significantly more than most Mediterranean countries for example.", "That's kind of what the video explains.", "Do people elsewhere really not do this? Like i get lördagsgodis is a \"thing\" with a name here. But it seems like it would be natural to have candy on the days youre free, like on the weekend.", "There are plenty of hard to buy fruit to this day", "I stopped eating candy/chocolate and anything sugary for a long time (I was living in the middle of nowhere, was basically living off of rice and fish)\n\nBut holy shit, once in a while when I'd get some candy or chocolate it was incredible. So damn good.", "Exactly. Idk why people are disagreeing? If you're entire diet is focused around sugars (MOST American diets are HIGH in sugar, people just don't READ THE LABELS) and you say sugar doesn't taste right, I guarantee you it's because you eat so much of it already that you are DESENSITIZED to it. Same thing if you're a drug addict..... You eventually need more to feel an effect and sugar is one of the most dangerous things out there. Honestly would put it higher than most opioids in terms of how many humans are killed by it every year.", "I dunno what the north american preference for peanut butter is, but I'd assume a lot of people still stock the prepared stuff that is sweetened. I was at my parents' house and ate some of that on toast and it tasted like I was eating cake icing." ]	42	videos	”Lördagsgodis: Sweden's delicious Saturday tradition that prevents decay - BBC Reel”
https://youtu.be/Pqo73abwcGI	/r/videos/comments/rdy16w/massive_tornado_strikes_missouri_december_10th/	[ "I can deal with California earthquakes, but Midwest tornados are fucking scary", "At 3:42 you can see that it damages the power grid and all lights go out.", "Amazing. Terrifying. Devastating. \n\nThis footage reminds me how small and fragile we all are. My heart breaks for those who lost loved ones and those who are in pain today.", "Earthquakes are pretty mild compared to your average tornado. Just the sound of a tornado triggers a primal fear in most people. The damage a tornado can deal is concentrated, compared to earthquakes, and is therefore more devastating. I've seen images of a tornado's path through a suburb that obliterated houses, leaving barely the slab behind, yet the neighbors' house barely has damage. It's like God himself ran a finger across the surface of our planet, destroying anything it touches. To see it in action, one thing I've managed to avoid, narrowly, in my life, would shake you to your core.", "Stop. You're scaring the children. I'm totally fine", "Those trucks at the end show the shear force of nature", "This was not too far from another tornado in [Mayfield KY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIpcNpngfac) where the death count is likely over [50](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/11/weather/severe-weather-tornadoes-saturday/index.html).\n\nEdit: I think this is the same tornado as it travelled 200 miles and through four states. Scary as fuck.", "[ Jump to 03:42 @ MASSIVE Tornado Strikes Southern Missouri - December 10, 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqo73abwcGI&t=0h3m42s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Max Olson Chasing, Video Popularity: 98.99%, Video Length: [04:08])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@03:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqo73abwcGI&t=0h3m37s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Where are the sharks?", "Just wait until you hear about Rabies", "Babies are annoying. Not so scary to me", "don't move to the Missouri Bootheel then, they have both!", "I've lived in Missouri my whole life, tornados are my #1 fear, and it's a fear I feel is completely justified.", "Saw one funnel cloud before we moved from KS.... absolutely terrifying to see the clouds spinning around that fast... F2 dropped 2 miles from our neighborhood.", "[Before/after picture of Graves County Courthouse in Mayfield, KY, after tornado last night.](https://i.imgur.com/PBP9GPg.jpg) ([Source](https://twitter.com/alawxchase/status/1469532952342241284?s=21))\n\n[Candle factory in Mayfield was destroyed, and dozens are feared dead inside.](https://twitter.com/Jeff_Piotrowski/status/1469653533351985153)\n\n[Amazon warehouse destroyed in Edwardsville, Illinois from same storms... multiple fatalities.](https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1469651862668386306)", "They're in there, just hard to see.", "I once went camping and was hit by a tornado and did not know it.\n\nI thought the storm was bad and a small camp fire flaring to six foot flames due to the forced air sure was a thing to behold but I was not all that worried. Also the tent pegs were ripped out of the ground, never seen that before or sense. \n\nA few days later I hiked back to civilization and found out it was a near miss of a tornado. In my experience a tornado is down to bad luck, just like a car crash; nothing to be too worried about.", "There's no preventing these storms, they're a fundamental part of American climate, that's why we have Tornado Alley.\n\nThe move to the EF rating system has been a disaster, though, as it makes comparing actual tornado strength difficult... now it's measured by economic* damage which is about as unscientific as it can be.\n\nEDIT:\n\n* for clarification, the economic part of argument here is more of a side effect of the damage influence being used as a tertiary proxy for tornado strength. Insofar as we can measure windspeed with radar adding another measure for tornado strength that's based on structural damage lends itself to economic costs influencing the rating.", "200 miles?! Holy shit. I'm from an area that doesn't get tornados and had no idea they could travel that far.", "Babies with rabies are pretty fucking terrifying though", "1:24 too, at the bottom of the screen in the middle.", "Generally when people say a tornado travels that distance, it's not on the ground the entire time. They tend to hop back up in the cloud and then form again and again and again.", "Are tornadoes common in December? I always thought they were seasonal usually in March-May.", "Climate change baby!", "This looks to be a record breaking quad state tornado", "All those trucks be like I gotta make my deadline or Amazon gonna fire me.", "This IS that tornado.", "No", "The Edwardsville tornado was a different storm cell.", "Can anybody tell me what that massive pile of wreckage was BEFORE it became a massive pile of wreckage? They keep showing it when I see any coverage of the KY tornado but I'm clueless.", "Definitely unusual. I can’t remember the last time there was a tornado warning in December here. There was a rapid change in temperature. We were solidly into winter temps all this week, then suddenly it spiked to 80 yesterday, which blew past the all-time record. And that’s what gets you tornadoes.", "No, not at all. I grew up in Missouri and this is very unusual.", "That’s creepy at night. It’s like a scary movie when the monster appears out of nowhere, gets darker, and light flashes and it’s closer.", "I believe it was a candle factory", "No, but as the climate warms it will be.", "I live in an area that doesn't really get tornados. We had one hit in the beginning of September and it was absolutely the most terrified I've ever been. My kids still won't sleep on their own if it's windy because of it. Less than 20 seconds of noise and pressure and it looked like a bomb went off outside. I truly hope to never live through another one.", "is he filming with a handheld phone while driving on highway in a storm?", "No, and storms like what we had in Ohio last night are also odd. Was telling folks the massive rolls of thunder we experienced were unsettling to hear in December.\n\nIt's currently 62°, and it'll swing down to just below freezing tonight. We had low 30s to high 20s this week as well.", "This one literally traveled, along the ground, for 200 miles. It broke records.", "God is angry at the QGP.", "I thought the scale was based on wind speeds and destruction of structures and vegetation, just like the Fujita scale was. The extended fujita just takes into account the quality of construction.", "Oh okay, I heard about a candle factory and also an Amazon Warehouse.. geeze it looks like these things were built out of tin foil..", "Why is there no technology for disrupting tornadoes, or at least stopping them before they start? Seems like that should be a high priority", "Yeah, that's insane.", "Covered 4 states", "I do not miss living in tornado land. Hope y’all are all well.", "Sheet metal. That's what you can expect from some of the richest companies in the world. :D", "East Coast USA here. As expensive as they may get, I’ll take predictable hurricanes any day.", "Not usually, but this is a La Niña year, so it’s going to be a wet and warm winter making things like this in the Deep South more likely.", "Yeah….uhhh, yeah. California earthquakes.\n\nDefinitely don’t come to any of the New England states where we have neither of those. The snow is super bad. And a Moose kidnapped my aunt last year. Stay away.", "I saw a pic of the candle factory prior, it was brick and cinder 😟", "Consider that we can’t even predict them, I’m not sure how you’d stop it.", "I mean hurricanes and tornadoes are two different beasts... A hurricane will generally survive as long as it can suck moisture from warm water... Tornadoes kind of need the right ingredients to be somewhat stable in a very localized area", "What does La Niña mean?", "You mean like... Nuke a hurricane technology..?", "Let go ahead and create something that stops earthquakes and volcanoes while we are at it.", "Merry Christmas, no snow just a tornado", "I worry this will cause spring plantlife to wake up and then die and I don’t know enough about plants to know if they would blame later in the year or we would just have a bunch of dead shit", "please shut the fuck up\n\n100 people died and this is all y'all can think about? No fucking wonder American society is so fucking broken. Disgusting.", "In Oklahoma we have tornados and earthquakes...\n\nHell we had a tigernado (remember tiger king? his tigers got sucked up by a tornado once)", "You should google the Tri-State tornado", "It has been really warm in the south this past week. The tornados are part of a cold front coming through that is a strong front, so huge storms when hot and cold air mix as well as super strong winds.", "And ones in the summer will be even worse", "They’re calling it the Quad State Tornado.", "I've been in the Ozarks after a tornado came through, its absolutely mesmerizing seeing a 40ft wide path of downed trees swirl up and down through the mountains.", "Man this blows.\n\nJoking aside I hope everyone is okay.", "Night tornadoes are the one of the biggest fuck you's that nature gives us.", "It's a weather pattern out in the Pacific. \n[https://www.weather.gov/iwx/la\\_nina](https://www.weather.gov/iwx/la_nina)", "We'd have to have something that can disrupt a spinning column of air that can be 50,000 ft tall, that can sometimes form in just minutes, that can develop anywhere conditions are right. Often times there can be multiple mesocyclones at the same time, reach with the chance of creating a tornado. Additionally most tornadoes are not violent. But the technology to disrupt a storm cell would likely do as much damage to the surrounding community", "I've been in a pretty big earthquake in San Diego about 10 years ago. It felt like a train was rolling through the house. It was a little freaky. I've been in a Walmart when a category 4 tornado was bearing down on it. I thought we were all going to die. Tornadoes are the scariest natural disaster because they just appear and they can be huge. Hurricanes do more destruction but at least you know they're coming.\n\n\nEdit: for justification I think the earthquake was >9 on the Richter\n\nEdit 2: It was actually a 7.2 in Baja that I felt. I do understand the size and area affected but I feel like my point is still valid", "to earnestly answer your question, its because we are dealing with non human scale amounts of energy. The sun's energy reaches the earth, and causes weather, where there's huge amounts of collected potential energy, and it will occasionally manifest itself. It would be nearly impossible to counteract the weather on a scale large enough to safely prevent a tornado.\n\nthe real solution is not to figure out how to stop the tornado, but to make structures strong enough to withstand them, and teach people who to safely act in the presence of one.", "It's the opposite of an el niño I know that much", "Big tornados generally don’t care what you use for building materials.", "Pretty sure you can hear the clicking of a dash phone mount, could also be a go pro", "(Quinn’s speech from Jaws)\n\nHoly shit.", "Getting harder and harder to deny man-made climate change, isn't it?", "No this is climate change in action. Freak and abnormal weather events that will begin to become more normal as it goes on.", "And make sure it leaves a lemony fresh scent afterwards", "Agree. Am from the Midwest, but also experienced this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE8Y6yxaNRc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE8Y6yxaNRc)\n\n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sqK5NPQO34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sqK5NPQO34)\n\nThere's at least usually some warning with a tornado, and sometimes you can even know how strong it is beforehand. Earthquakes typically come with no warning, you have no idea how strong it'll be when it starts, and if you're in a building, you just have to hope it's up to code. There is no fear like that. That said, I've never been in the middle of a tornado.", "Definitely some Lovecraftian vibes", "Ditto. One more reason not to live in a flyover state.", "Question: how can you track the tornado's trajectory at night with low visibility? Like, if you were trying to intercept, is it much more difficult at night to know what direction it's moving?", "I’ll take a nor Easter or hurricane any day.", "It should only be based on tornado size and windspeed. Destruction shouldn't play a role.", "Thank you for properly referring to me in the majestic plural.", "over 50 people are dead...", "You can hear earthquakes coming. I live in Anchorage, AK and that 7.1 earthquake was terrifying.", "Very cool!", "Your memory must be playing tricks on you we haven’t had anything above a 4.x near us in 20 years. One 7.x in Baja maybe 12 years ago but that was 130 miles away, no way you felt much from that at all. \n\nSo you felt a baby quake if anything, and then compared it to the second most severe category of Tornado. Not a fair comparison. The baby quakes are barely noticeable sometimes depending on proximity, half the time it feels like anything below a 4.5 and if you ask anyone about it, most people in the area will be like “oh we had an earthquake?”\n\nFor context, the Northridge Earthquake in 1994 was a 6.7, and people in the area who were there for it very much remember that, it did a lot of damage and took lives. https://www.lacity.org/highlights/remembering-northridge-earthquake\n\nEdit: A simple google will show San Diego doesn’t have anything above a 7.5 listed in the region for the last 70 years. Like…what? Why double down on the lie with that edit? San Diego would’ve been devastated, it would be widely remembered.\n\nhttps://earthquaketrack.com/us-ca-san-diego/biggest", "moved to Georgia and just the few we get here scare the hell out of me, ill take an earthquake anyday.", "I was in NW Arkansas for Christmas 2015 and there were tornado warnings. Then we drove to Branson during a massive rain storm and while we were there, there were floods. We had to take detours due to washed out roads. \n\nSo it’s not unheard of but I don’t know how common that is since I’m actually from Canada but I have family down there.", ">flyover state\n\nAnd Coasties wonder why Midwesterners hate them.", "There has never been a greater than 9 earthquake to hit San Diego. That would be absolutely devastating. But I think there was a 7+ about 10 years ago which would be terrifying to experience. \n\nBut you are right, tornados come out of nowhere and destroy instantly. Seeing one and hearing the sirens is one of the most terrifying weather experiences.", "Cloud seeding is the best we can do. And we do it a lot up here in Alberta. Generally it’s to minimize the impact of hail storms but since we do have occasional tornadoes it does technically help with that too. \n\nSometimes we do it the other way around as well, and stimulate snowfall in the mountains since it helps with our water supply in the spring and summer.", "For real. Seeing shots of an otherwise hidden tornado lit up by lightning freaks me the fuck out.", "It's Spanish for \"the Niña\".", "It was not a 9. I guarantee you would still have PTSD following an earthquake that was a 9 on the Richter scale. I don’t think there has been one over 7.0 in a while in California.", "A Moose bit my sister once", "And people will still deny climate change and the larger weather events that come along with it!", "Did anyone try shooting it?", "Dude esp after Joplin I freak out to but also join everyone outside to look for it hahaha. I love MO", "If it was a 9 on the richter your house wouldn’t have been there any longer. In 2010 there was a 7.2 in Baja. I’m not going to lie, I’ve never been in either, but a proper 9+ earthquake scares me more fundamentally than a tornado. Tornados are just way more likely to show up and screw up your day.\n\nTohoku was a 9.1 or 9.2 and it happened 30 miles out to sea. Japan is really ready for earthquakes so most of the damage was caused by the tsunami that came after, the most expensive natural disaster in history.", "The nukes were primed and ready but shadow-president Trump was only on the 8th hole and didn't make it back to the bar in time.", "No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: \"The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist\", \"Fillings of Passion\", \"The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink\"...", "I live in CA now though lived 6+ years in the Midwest. Another aspect is the uncertainty. If there is a thunderstorm (with a Tornado Watch) at night and you have work in the morning, you get stuck in a difficult decision. It could end up you dying in your sleep or you staying up all night without reason.", "The future is now.", "That sucks.", "I was tracking it last night. Heartbreaking and Lord be with those effected, but as a weather nut it was a rare opportunity. Tracked over 200 miles. Astonishing.", "In the heart of climate denial no less.", "Obviously.\n\nBut generally speaking, there are some building materials and methods that will make a building stand better against strong winds and tornadoes than say, toothpicks and hay..", "It was a white tornado, not a black one.", "I tried drawing it away from populated areas with a sharpie on a map.", "I grew up in Oklahoma and this is my absolute worst nightmare. Driving on a highway in a Storm and all of the sudden you just hit a tornado. Terrifying.", "Ok, a nighttime tornado might be the scariest thing on earth. You only get glimpses of it as the lightning brightens the sky. The ultimate shadowy figure bringing impending doom.", "Yep. \n\nHeard someone at work discussing the “ridiculousness” of climate change with a customer the other day. \n\nYeah, it’s totally a ridiculous hoax and made up, Francis, that’s why it’s fucking 80 degrees here in the middle of December and why Missouri had weather conducive for, that spawned, tornadoes last night. \n\nFor the folks doubting anthropomorphic climate change-ask those who died from last nights tornado if they think it’s real.", "800,000 dead from covid but that doesn't seem to concern anyone.", "BootHeel sounds like a name Kenneth would say on 30 Rock", "> Earthquakes are pretty mild compared to your average tornado.\n\nWait until San Andreas fault goes..", "Night time December tornadoes. Because Climate Change isn't real.", "I bet that our country would be so much more religious if we had natural disasters like this happening", "Probably GPS + radar", "This tornado nuke is brought to you by Febreeze with climate refreshing technology!", "For me it's tornadoes, for the sole reason that you can (sometimes) see them. They look like something out of a fresh hell. Like fury incarnate.", "Twister vibes for sure: \"It's already here\".", "[According to this](https://weather.com/science/weather-explainers/news/tornado-risk-by-month), it isn't common but it does happen. [Another source for Missouri in particular.](https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/december-tornadoes-arent-so-unusual-in-missouri/article_5d7a4b9b-89d8-54cb-825e-8729cc48e702.html)\n\nClimate change may make them more common/severe but it doesn't seem unprecedented.", "> Earthquakes are pretty mild compared to your average tornado\n\nChile says hi.", "wow, that was insane. i figured he had a good shot at first then he just kept driving closer and closer to it", "Nope. Nope. Nope.", "Snow? What snow? All the rain melted it this morning.\n\nSource: am NW Masshole", "Thanks Einstein", "Been through both. Earthquake (that big one in California a few years back) was actually confusing. It happens without warning, and I was actually driving a car at the time and suddenly couldn't steer the car for shit. I just started randomly going wherever it wanted. Didn't even realize it was an earthquake until the car stopped. Basic initial reaction was \"What the fuck was that?\"\n\nA tornado is VIOLENT. And noisy. And you KNOW it's coming towards you for at least a minute. And you know you can't outrun it. Basic initial reaction was \"HOLY SHIT JESUS H CHRIST I'D LIKE NOT TO DIE RIGHT NOW\"\n\nI'll take an earthquake any day as long as I'm not in a 100 year old brick building when it hits.\n\nEDIT: Storm chasers are nuts.\n\nEDIT II: Apparently a few years back was actually 1989", "Yeah we had a [5.8 in Northern Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Virginia_earthquake) a decade ago. It shook a few books off my shelf, one picture off the wall, a figurine off my computer desk, and apparently knocked over some plastic patio furniture in the region.\n\nIt felt like a very heavy truck was driving past. \n\nI can't imagine what a 9 would feel like if it's like 300,000x stronger.", "Lol whatever. In a bad earthquake, no place is really safe. There is no such thing as \"cover.\" There is nothing you can do, you can't get away, there's nowhere to run, you won't even be able to run. You definitely don't want to be underground. If you're by the sea you have to worry about tsunamis, if you're in the mountains, you have to worry about volcanos and mudslides. The best you can hope for is to be somewhere in the open with no power lines above you and no buildings around and hope the ground doesn't open up beneath you. \n\nTornadoes last minutes. Even the worst tornado can't do anything to you if you're underground. You can see them coming, they can't chase you, they move pretty slow, and if you see one off in the distance, you're pretty safe. And tornadoes are not very big. They can at most destroy a few neighborhoods in a midsize town. Most of the time they happen in fields and don't do any damage to anything. They last on average 5 minutes. An Earthquake affects thousands of square kilometers and the aftershocks last for days.\n\nThe most expensive natural disaster ever was the 2011 Japanese earthquake: 700 BILLION dollars in damage. By comparison, the most damage caused by tornadoes was also in 2011 in a storm that produced 360 tornadoes across the south and east of the US and barely cracked 10 billion in damage. All of the worst and most expensive disasters in history are earthquakes (followed by hurricanes, floods, and winter storms). Whether by death toll or damage total, not a single tornado producing storm even cracks the top 50, and that's looking at storms that produce HUNDREDS of tornadoes.\n\nEdit: Interesting that there are downvotes but not a single person can think of anything to say against what I said. \n\nTL;DR: By every objective measure of danger, whether you look at lives lost or property damage, earthquakes are far far worse. And the downvoters are idiots for not understanding that.", "> don't move to the Missouri Bootheel \n\nGood advice regardless of your opinion on tornadoes and earthquakes.", "> I truly hope to never live through another one.\n\nYou might want to rephrase that, lol.", "That big, lumbering beast all lit by lightning and the explosion of electrical transformers... What a hellish scene.", "Forestry major here!\n\nA lot of the surface (already grown) plant life should be fine as they're more reliant on the amount of sunlight they're getting than temperature swings. A very late season frost tends to do more damage than a mid (or early) thaw. \n\nMost of the sub surface (seeds and bulbs) stuff should be good too, as it hasn't been cold enough long enough to really set in in the sub surface. They likely \"think\" winter hasn't even come yet.", "\n>For the folks doubting anthropomorphic climate change-ask those who died from last nights tornado if they think it’s real.\n\nWhat an edgelord savant you must be to feel the need to add this unnecessary joke about people dying.", "This week in the kansas city area, we've had daily highs from the 30s to the 60s. And it's still tornado season. Welcome to global warming, folks. Soon it'll snow once and all the republicans will shout, \"so much for global warming, liberals!\" Fuck.", "Haha, didn't even notice that phrasing. I hope to never experience one again.", "That Mayfield incident, the factory that got hit runs 24/7, and had a 110 people in it. I would like to know if they have if they have a tornado shelter, and/or an alert system.\n\nWhat state and federal systems set up generally?\n\nDo any of you live in tornado prone areas? Does your workplace have anything set up in the way of an alert? Does it have a tornado shelter?", "I was actually in hayti at a Mexican restaurant when the sirens went off. Payed the bill and left only to get home about 15 mins later to find out it came through hayti.", "Lightning is lighting up the sky constantly in storms this big, the small blue flashes from the base of the tornado are it taking out light poles and transformers.", "https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/2-dead-arkansas-possible-tornadoes-heavy-weather-strike-us-rcna8451 death count is rising :(", "I would have tried an attractive female tornado to draw it away to less populous areas. Or space.", "One year at Burning Man, it was clear and barely any wind — it wasn’t a tornado but I think we had this sudden air column whip up out of nowhere about 40 ft from our campsite. I was just standing outside having a beer and I see a single tent just go flying at least 200ft into the air. Was nuts. Nature’s fucking lit. The playa is prone to intense wind and dust storms without warning, and once we had a storm roll in out of nowhere and a few people got hit by lightning (survived as far as I know). The weather out there just is nutty at times", "Our hurricanes are duds by the time they get here.\n\nWhat’s the worst that can happen in a nor’easter? You stay home and drink some Allen’s Coffee Brandy.", "A tornado is much more concentrated than a hurricane. When you hear about a tornado doing damage, it's usually to a neighborhood. When you hear about a hurricane, they talk about the damage it does to an entire state.", "While this might be contributed by climate change (which is undeniably real and human-led)- this is probably because of El Nina, making the entire Midwest unusually hit and warm (or at least, that's what my weatherlady said)", "Lots of info here for the curious https://stormtrack.org/community/\n\nalso a subreddit: r/stormchasing\n\nTLDR though: Yes...", "Only if you're capable of thought.", "they didnt evacuate or anything?", "You’re a jackass.", "Bad take. Same thing happened 100 years ago with the Tri-State tornado.", "That storm just leveled mayfield Kentucky this morning a bunch of people have been injured and died", "The Suck Zone", "Holy shit I understood that reference!", "110 people inside at the time, dozens likely dead", "I live 5 mins from that warehouse. Lived here my whole life and seen countless tornado warnings and sightings but last night crazy. Emergency alerts spamming my phone every few minutes for like an hour straight.", "The giant tornado probably made it a little easier to poop in a bag though", "must be a Mainer :)", "At one point this tornado derailed a train, and threw at least one railcar 75 yards from the tracks, up a hill. Even an empty railcar weighs a lot, and is a dense weight. You think of things like trailer homes, or even tractor trailers being flung about, but a railcar?", "It's weird, my friend and I were driving to my professors house for dinner and it was super stormy with some crazy lightning. We actually did get the tornado warning on all of our phones during dinner, but laughed it off with light-hearted jokes to lighten the mood. Really awful that people lost their lives that night. In December of all months", "that thing was huge..", "La Niña. It’s actually not as uncommon as you think given the circumstances.", "I wouldn't consider that a joke. More a rhetorical statement pointing towards the loss of life to highlight the devastation. A grim reminder that \"our\" problems have very real effects.", "at 1:46, it looked like rows of car lights following each other up into and through the air then crashing to the ground..", "No, you're the jackass.", "You're right it looks like it was a 7would say in commonality a category 4 tornado is comparable to a 7 on the Richter scale and a 9 would be comparable to a category 5 tornado. If you want to compare it to an EF-3 go for it. I was driving on the interstate when funnel clouds were being formed. I pulled off into a completely flooded low level gas station to wait it out and there was a section of downed trees almost completely blocking the interstate. That was much more terrifying than an earthquake and that was a category 2. It still would have taken my jeep for a ride or impaled me with wood shards.", "Ain’t a storm till it hits a foot of snow.", "Co-sign. Born and raised in Cape Girardeau.", "They use millimeter wave radars that are good at picking up large columns of water + debris.", "NWS sends out texts. Civil defense sirens blare.", "I eventually got it lassoed and under control. I hate that I wasn't able to do it quicker, though.", "Did that one occur in December also?", "This person has a screenshot of the same tornado in Kentucky hitting a 303 mph gate to gate shear. https://twitter.com/yeeter_/status/1469534284298002434?s=21", "The photos from Kentucky are incredible. A huge pile of twisted metal and cars that looks about three stories high.", "Doesn’t read as a joke. Reads as a serious statement", "I think people are too quick to attribute climate change to extreme events. Climate change is a very gradual but inevitable freight train. Events like these have always happened in living memory, climate change just probably makes them very slightly more likely.", "climate change is 100% real and caused by humans, but attributing a single weather event to global warming is like attributing a single sneeze to pneumonia", "I'm thinking of moving to Middle-of-Nowhere, Nevada.", "GQP", "The pacific ocean has a distinct weather pattern that occurs every some number of years called la nina. I want to say every 2 or 4 years it rotates between el nino and El nina but its been a very long time since I learned this. One is very dry and the other moist, which has a massive influence on the weather for the year. Its one of those reliable patterns since meteorology has really been studied that is dictated by a lot of factors like deep ocean currents, surface temp, wind patterns, etc. Its really cool and I implore you to Google that ish because I'm sure I mixed something up.", "Amateur hour here. Only fire kills it.", "I've lived in Iowa and Missouri for nearly every one of sixty years and I've never seen a tornado with my own eyes. I've helped clean up after them - even helped pull a car out of a tree once - but never personally affected.", "Fuck you", "You're old too?", "Curious what the protocol for stuff like this is. Are homes in the area required to have shelters? Do people just not use them?", ">\"All right I'm going to be careful here\"\n \ndrives closer to the big ass tornado", "Living in Rochester NY, a foot of snow still meant going to work. Or, someone having a case of the Mondays.", "I’ve been terrified of tornadoes my whole life, so never bothered watching vids like this before. Out of curiosity, what is the endgame of these storm chaser types? Are they trying to drive into the tornadoes or is it basically like counting coup, skirting the edges? Is there anything scientific going on here or is it just thrill-seeking?", "These are the cloud cells of my nightmares. Fascinatingly terrifying. I'm sad for the victims, and have my condolences.", "I lived pretty close to Joplin when that tornado hit, a bunch of the police, ambulance, and firefighters from my town drove down there to help. I was working at Sonic at the time and a bunch of them came through the drive thru to get food before they left (likely not many restaurants open in Joplin at that moment). Our manager just told the cooks to start cooking burgers and fries as quickly as they could and not to charge anyone in an emergency services vehicle. After the first few they weren't even ordering, we were just handing them bags of food as they drove through.\n\nBut yeah, tornados are fascinating to see, especially if you can see that it's not coming straight for you! Seeing something that powerful is awe inspiring, but seeing that it's not pointed at you is very reassuring.", "Yeah for real, the concerning part isn't a massive tornado going 200 miles. The concerning part is this is in fucking December. There was also a double tornado in Jonesboro Arkansas that took out a nursing home. Shit is absolutely insane.", "Yep. Looking at half the world on fire and the other half underwater this summer, and on our end all we had was a particularly rainy month, I decided that New England wasn't getting the worse of climate change at the moment and was pretty happy with living here for the first time in a while. Tornados? Nope. Hurricanes? Hardly. Earthquakes? Been some small ones, but I never felt them. Fires? can't think of the last one that got out of control. Flooding? In some areas, but not near me. Just some annoying snowstorms here and some unpleasantly cold weather. You got bucket of salt, a generator, and a shovel? You'll be fine.\n\nYeah, it's not so bad.", "This guy triggered the 'take shelter' alarms and automated calls in Saint Louis city.", "Max Olson chasing is getting a new subscriber. That was awesome", "Just seeing this video is enough to understand.\n\nThe intensity and frequency of lightning strikes is something I've never seen. And then the flashes show the monster that's hiding in the night and devastating everything on its path. \n\nI'm happy to live one ocean away.", "I live in Illinois and most houses have basements but it would just depend on the business. I was in Walmart once when the tornado warnings went off and they had everyone get in the coolers. But yeah there's sirens that go off, your phone will get alerts. What I don't understand about this one is it was on the ground for a long time. How did they not have plenty of warning?", "Evacuate? Where are you going to go?", "Where is that? NWS stands for national weather service? Would everybody in a given area receive those texts?", "At least you can run from a tornado or hide in a bunker. When you get that big 9.5 quake on the west coast good luck finding anywhere that's safe.", "A 9.0 earthquake is 100 times stronger than a 7.0. These aren't comparable scales", "I was across playa, like 3:00 ish, watching shit get destroyed around 8:30. Shade structures just got picked up and thrown like crazy.", "tornado shelter or drive away from the tornado", "You don’t go outside during a Tornado warning. You stay inside, get away from windows, get to the lowest level you can, etc.\n\nThere’s only so much you can do if a gigantic tornado is going to take down the entire building, but you’re not going to be better off running outside and looking for a different one. It’s not like they have a bunch of underground bunkers nearby or somewhere safer.", "a 9 isn't even possible anywhere except Cascadia . The upper limit of the San Andreas is thought to be around 8.2", "Ain’t a storm till it hits a foot. Ain’t staying home unless it hits three.", "~~Nothing you can do but shelter, Amazon is at fault for building big warehouses without a single room for their employees to take shelter in event of an emergency.~~", "I think it's more of a dig at those Christian pastor assholes who say stuff like \"God is angry at fags\" when an east coast city gets lambasted by hurricane. That said, it simply isn't necessary to post that.", "This tornado happening at night reminds me of how the Tubbs fire in 2017 in northern CA ravished so much. No one had enough warning and literal towns burned down. \n\nThe fact that this happened in the middle of the night is what makes it so much worse…\n\nEdit: spelling", "I'd say it's 50/50. We wouldn't have amazing footage to study like this if it weren't for the guys.", "We whent down to help the clean up. I hope nothing like that ever happens to people again. I love the news brain buzbi freaking out.", "I think it varies from chaser to chaser.\n\nMany are doing it for reporting purposes. Making people aware of where and when tornadoes touch down, and tracking their movement so that people are aware of the tornado's path.", "sure, but why stoop to that level?", "Man, all the shitty places in the US, and you choose for your example a really cool midwest city with one of the best zoo's I've ever visited! I get your sentiment, and wasnt excited for my trip to Omaha before I went either, but MAN was I wrong! That place is great!", "I have an ex from Malden/Sikeston area. It really makes you thankful for growing up not there.", "That's a bad sign when you are seeing transformer after transformer blowing. It means it was hitting populated areas. Kentucky was already saying 50 people are dead.", "Generally, you don't evacuate in a tornado situation. You find shelter. Given that this went through just outside of \"tornado alley\" I'd be surprised if they didn't have a tornado shelter of some kind, but who knows. The odds of getting directly hit by a tornado are low, but if it happens, yikes.\n\nhttps://www.ready.gov/tornadoes\n\nI remember in grade school they just had all the kids go into halls and put books on their heads. If this happened to a single elementary school I imagine the death counter would be in hundreds instantly.", "Thankfully Cape is “the best part” of that area, at least.", "That's what I was wondering. The track is estimated at 213 miles, Mayfield is about 1/3 of the distance along that line.", "Night time winter tornados. Damn.", "Much more likely and much more extreme when they do happen.", "I wasn’t joking.", "A place where you can find some Pepto Bismilk", "Never arm the tornado.", "According to US records, between 1991 and 2010 there have been 24 tornadoes in December. \n\n\n\nIn 2020 alone, the US recorded 27 tornadoes. \n\n\n\n\nThis is way more than just La Niña at this point.\n\n\n\n\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_tornadoes_from_October_to_December_2020", "I'm willing to bet most of the people that were in it are going to say \"it's because Jesus is coming back / we let the gays have rights / God is mad we didn't give everyone a bible and a gun\" \n\n\nEDIT: Laughing at all the non-southerners downvoting me. Try visiting a 'fly over' state then come tell me I'm wrong.", "WHY IS EVERYTHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT HERE!?", "oddly specific facts you had in your head for natural disasters, did you just write a report on them? haha", "Well, that's fucking terrifying", "We had that 5.3 in Salt Lake can't even imagine a 7.1. And your right about hearing it I heard every aftershock before it hit my house.", "Other than the people who mention it 15 times a goddamned day on Reddit.", "Hold on. Don't think we can just gloss over this moose story.", "Yeah, it's really unsettling especially how not all of the lightning bolts light it up. So you expect to see it with every flash, but it only appears at random instead.", "You can't outrun a tornado once everyone in town is also on the road and also trying to outrun the tornado. Not to mention the massive cloud of debris that gets hurled around these things. Plus you very rarely get more than a few minutes of warning. Tornados are extremely unpredictable.", "A car is one of the worst places do be. Tornados tend to pick them up and toss them everywhere. And frankly any building above ground taking a direct hit is going to be flattened. Shelters exist but they're not that common.\n\nHonestly a lot of tornado prep is praying you aren't hit head on...", "Man, I moved this year from Northeast Arkansas to Northeast Georgia. People tell me tornadoes still happen here, but during peak season it was so much less frequent than it was in Arkansas.", "They don't. This one* did. It's absolutely insane.", "There are a lot worse places to live than Cape. I like the downtown vibe there and the river.", "I don’t know, I lived in upstate New York during that crazy ice storm in the 90’s, no power for three weeks and cold af. Living there as a kid made me loathe the cold and snow. I’ll take the low risk of earthquakes, volcanos, tsunamis, and fires of Western Washington any day to avoid real winter. I mean, I lived in Iceland for a year and the winter there was less harsh than most of New England.", "Kansas city. Yes that's what it stands for. They test the sirens every Wed (as long as it's a clear day). Everyone receives texts. Also your phone will make a sound like a siren.", "It's not a bad take.\n\nThese will become more common as time goes on due to climate change.", "Did you not read your own link? October and November were way down in comparison and December there was an uptick. So if we are averaging just like your link does, it’s pretty normal.", "Fun fact: The area this tornado hit is very close to the New Madrid fault line, and had a pretty intense earthquake a couple weeks ago.\n\nThat said, SEMO is actually a pretty nice area to live in (tis where I grew up) as long as you maintain the understanding that the planet is constantly trying to murder you.", "This gives me some nightcrawler vibes lol\n\nDrone Operator; “i could have gotten more money, couldnt i?”", "lived in both CA and MO. i prefer natural disasters i can see coming towards me.", "It definitely happens sometimes, not super common, but the weather guy was saying that of the off peak months, December has the most activity on average.", "Don’t worry, everyone just goes to Colorado.", "This one may have tracked over 250 mi on the ground, which would make it the new record holder.", "Earthquakes can get absolutely insane. I'm guessing you haven't really experienced a strong one?\n\nThe 1989 San Francisco quake was \"only\" a 6.8 yet killed 60 people, hurt a thousand, and caused billions in damage. Not to mention secondary affects like tsunamis. I don't think anything has been as devastating as an earthquake.\n\n>The damage a tornado can deal is concentrated, compared to earthquakes, and is therefore more devastating.\n\nWouldn't it be the opposite? Since an earthquake affects a wider area, it has the potential to cause more damage.\n\nAll that said fuck that to either one.", "That’s a pretty small tornado honestly", "[ Jump to 01:46 @ MASSIVE Tornado Strikes Southern Missouri - December 10, 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqo73abwcGI&t=0h1m46s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Max Olson Chasing, Video Popularity: 98.67%, Video Length: [04:08])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@01:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqo73abwcGI&t=0h1m41s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "I feel like we haven't had a proper lake effect \"fuck you I'm dropping 3 feet in 12 hours\" storm in so long. I miss them a little bit. \n\nWe might hit 60s this week. Lol.", "Yeah, we're attributing all these sneezes.", "[How about a pattern of extreme weather events](https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/billions/)", "Actually it's not: this is a result of [La Nina](https://www.npr.org/2021/10/15/1046313870/la-nina-winter-weather-us-temperatures-rainfall), a weather phenomenon that occurs regularly in a normal climate cycle.\n\nNot saying climate change isn't a thing, but that's not what's happening here.\n\nMore info on El Nino and La Nina can be found here: https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ninonina.html", "in december none the less...", "Why do you think it didn't go to Texas?", "Even in the heart of tornado alley, the overwhelming majority of tornadoes are in the middle of nowhere and end up knocking over a barn at most. They still are minimal in terms of deaths and cost of damage compared to flooding, wildfires, or hurricanes.", "Holy shit. I just saw Twister again the other day, and this thing being illuminated by the lightning, just appearing out of utter darkness was even more terrifying than in the movie.", "Look up the Henry Doorly zoo. Omaha is the communications hub for the entire US. It’s dead center geographically. It’s a lot less Midwestern than anything else you’ll find within a few hundred miles.", "I've lived in the Midwest my entire life. I've seen tornados in person. What a lot of people don't realize is that you can protect yourself from them very easily. People who die to tornados die because they were SURPRISED by them. Asleep, didn't hear the siren, don't have a weather radio... this is why people die.", "Here you go:\n\nhttps://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ninonina.html", "Almost anything will look like that when it gets hit by a tornado this powerful. Very few buildings can actually withstand that level of force.", ">Tornadoes are the scariest natural disaster because they just appear and they can be huge. Hurricanes do more destruction but at least you know they're coming\n\nIdk man. I've been through both a F4 tornado ( this one https://youtu.be/Ggb_Y2tjMIE ) and Hurricane Ida just a few months ago which was technically a Cat 4 but when it hit had winds only 5 mph below what would have brought it to a Cat 5. I think I would rather roll the dice with a tornado rather than go through a huge hurricane again.\n\nA tornado is terrifying. I can not stress that enough. Horrible. But it's only bad for like a minute then, usually, it passes by you and everything is fine. Some damage but nothing that can't be repaired and the place back up and running in a day or two. Not talking about personal damage like to a residence. Obviously that's devastating to a family but the town itself is normally operational within a day or two.\n\nWith a hurricane it's completely different. I've actually been through two. Katrina I didn't get the worst of(I was living in MS) but still took a few weeks to recover. Ida though I had a front row seat for.\n\nYes, there is a warning beforehand but it's not as useful as you might think. A hurricane effects such a wide area that whole cities need to be evacuated. Which isn't possible. With Ida I heard the afternoon before it hit that it was a tropical storm, then a small hurricane. Not a big deal. By 10 o'clock we were told \"ah we were wrong. It's actually gonna be huge. Get out if you can\". Instantly, all resources are gone. All food, bought. All fuel within a 100 miles, bought. Roads clogged with stand still traffic everywhere as 1000s of people all try to leave at the same time. It quickly becomes a numbers game. \"I have resources X and Y amount of time before the storm hits. Do I have the ability to leave? With traffic the way it is, how far can I go on the fuel I have and will shelter be available when I get there?\" \n\nThen the hurricane actually hits. It was the most unreal shit I have ever seen in my life. You keep thinking \"well, it can't possibly get worse than it is now\" then it gets worse and worse. Winds, sustained, at 200mph, so strong it looks like something from a sci-fi movie when the step on to an uninhabitable planet. You are looking out the window watching the buildings around you get slowly torn apart. Listening to the house you are in creek and groan under the stress. You sit there wonder how much longer before the roof gets ripped off, leaving you without any real shelter. This goes on all day. Hour after hour. Completely relentless. The psychological effect is torture. \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppTFilfb1cc\nhttps://youtu.be/f7HfJd_IkjA\n\nThen the aftermath. You are now in a disaster area. No food except what you managed to pull together. No power. No water. No fuel. No emergency services. Everything is gone. For Ida, this lasted a month. We went two weeks with nothing before any real help arrived, this also meant no 911, no functional hospital.\n\nIt's been a few months now and we still haven't fully recovered.", "That’s German for “one Stein”", "When you say stoop it grants a false assumption of height. Hateful, tribal ignorance doesn't pick sides or colors. It just is.", "I moved to NC, so \"Fuck you! I'm dropping 1 inch of snow in 12 hours.\" is my new \"storm.\" Sometimes I reminisce snow days, then snap myself out of it.", "Yeah I guess I meant when temperatures warm up and then we have the opposite we have now, which is a jump in temperature, then we would have a drop in temperature after the plants had woken up so to speak. Then that is what you seem to say would be harmful which is a late frost. What I’m talking about though is a premature warm up, over however long a week or something maybe, followed back by a drop to cold. Whether that is viewed as a cold shock or abnormally warm for extended period is more subjective I guess", ">Earthquake (that big one in California a few years back)\n\nWhich earthquake? Unless you were in a pretty remote location like Ridgecrest/Trona I don't think there's been a truly big earthquake in California since Northridge 1994", "Isn’t it hard to determine the size and wind speed without being able to measure damage? Like tornadoes that happen out in the middle of a field and never hit any structures cannot effectively be measure for how damaging they are vs tornadoes that do hit structures. Destruction should play a role but not the entire role.", "As a Californian i can agree with tis sentiment. However, i know that if it came down to it, a massive earthquake is far deadlier than a massive tornado. With a twister you can still take shelter. In a quake, the shelter can kill you.", "It made t-shirts too over 20 years ago when I worked there. It's so weird seeing places I used to be, where my KIDS used to be, flattened. A feeling of being very glad life led us here instead of keeping us there. So heartbroken for everyone.", ">was actually driving a car at the time and suddenly couldn't steer the car for shit. I just started randomly going whenever it wanted. Didn't even realize it was an earthquake until the car stopped. Basic initial reaction was \"What the fuck was that?\"\n\n Lag!", "As a Canadian kid whose never seen a tornado in real life, the twisters movie gave me many years of nightmares lol. \n\nTornados are pretty rare here, but they also happen in the more rural areas.", "Having it be completely dark and only being able to tell where the tornado is by the backlighting of the lightening was a level of dread I didn’t know I could get on Reddit.", "All of a sudden, fellow OK friend", "Could be a coincidence, but the radio in the background cuts out at the same time. I'd assume you'd hear static though", "Most move from southwest to northeast, or west to east.\" per [noaa.gov](https://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/)", "I also went from deep in tornado alley to a more coastal region (in geological terms). Coastal states get tornadoes but nothing like what the plains produce. You almost never seen anything greater than an F0 and even those are very rare. Microbursts and heavy rain are a much bigger concern.", "Do you really think you would have enough time to drive away from a tornado?", "How do you know they didnt?", "Lots of places say hi. Earthquakes can destroy entire major cities, and have many times. Tornadoes don't do that.", "In my area (DC suburbs) the national weather service will occasionally (in emergencies, like tornadoes or flash floods) use the national alert system that auto pushes warnings to the phones of everyone in a certain region, so slightly different than texts because it makes your phone vibrate longer and forces the message to your Lock Screen. Other agencies do the same thing for missing children and stuff like that.\n\nThat being said, it’s tough to miss the sirens going off…I’ve only been in the path of one tornado where the sirens went off (they’re not very frequent in our area, like maybe once every year or two we’ll get possible warnings), and it was loud and eerie as hell.", "Yeah if you want a good go-to example of a place even heartland Americans avoid, you should use \"Sapulpa, Oklahoma\".", "Shhhh quit reminding me that I'm old and that \"a few years\" was actually in the 90's. I don't know it's name, I was just visiting relatives in San Fransisco. It was the one where an entire highway overpass collapsed\n\nEDIT: apparently it was a lot further back in time than I remembered \n\n[1989 Loma Prieta earthquake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Loma_Prieta_earthquake)\n\nTornado was in 2011 [Bridgeton MO tornado](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_St._Louis_tornado)\n\nDamn thing passed over Interstate 70 while I was driving.\n\nEDIT: Maybe I just should stop driving.....", "Oh no. Does that mean my discount Blue origin rocket dildo is getting delivered late?\n\nEdit: Too soon, I guess.", "Yeah I’ve never read or heard about a tornado running 3 hours. That means its ground speed had to be north of 70mph. To be that big AND move that fast. Fuck.", "As a New Englander that woke up to an earthquake a year ago and has lived through a tornado, we actually get both, just not as often. \n\nPeople not used to our winter storms can find them hard to handle, too. It's the wind more than the snow that messes things up", "The Trump strategy", "I'm this case, the plants that can feel the sunlight will know the days are still short, and the plants underground will think winter hasn't even come yet because soil takes longer to get cold.", "The Prometheus school of running away from things", "Truly the American way", "Oh the rain is insane sometimes. I went from summers where the sun was constantly beating the ground at 95+ with high humidity to a place that doesn't heat up too bad in the summer, but rains constantly.", "DAMN nature, you scary!", "No they aren't. Especially not ones this powerful.", "I watched it last night. Every time they showed the radar, there was a big debris ball.", ">October and November were way down in comparison\n\n\n\nAccording to my link, October 2020 saw 19 tornadoes and November saw 24.\n\n\n\nIn history from '91 - 2010 there have been 61 tornadoes during November (average 6.1 per month), and 58 during October (5.8 tornadoes each October). \n\n\n\nSo the singular month of November 2020 makes up 39% of the November tornadoes we saw for 10 years straight, and 32% for October.\n\n\n\nSo I'm not sure what point your making? Surely you're not trying to deny the affects of climate change?", "Lol, I'll post this again. Tornados in December are not uncommon, but not as common during spring/summer months.\n\nBetween 1950-2013 Texas had 184 touch downs, Mississippi 154, Louisiana 126, Alabama 124, Arkansas 116 and so on and so on.\n\nRight there that is 600 in 60 years in 5 states.\n\nhttps://www.ustornadoes.com/2014/12/10/heres-where-tornadoes-typically-form-in-december-across-the-united-states/\n\n[It is is also variable by year with no real overall trend.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/203682/number-of-tornadoes-in-the-us-since-1995/)", "Hey now, we can get Thunder Snow now...so that's a thing.", "uh yes? ive driven through Missouri and saw a tornado in the distance and kept driving. unless the tornado formed right next to them", "I live here. My house is fine but we have no power. Downtown mayfield is ripped up. Buildings gone, damage to the jail and court house. Over 100 people got trapped inside a destroyed candle factory, a lot of which have passed.", "Perhaps they should have tried shooting the tornado.\n\nFor the redditor who called me an edge lord earlier and said I was “joking” about the dead-here’s your tasteless joke.", "If the big one years back was the same one I experienced it was so bizarre. Most feel like a jolt, rumble; whatever not really sure how to explain them but the big one I felt like I was on a surf board on wavy water. I was staring right at the floor just mind blown that I was actually on a solid surface.\n\nEdit: Just seen your replies definitely wasn't the same big one. Mine would've been about 10 years ago.", "[In 5 different states between 1950-2013, there were 600 tornado touch downs between them.](https://www.ustornadoes.com/2014/12/10/heres-where-tornadoes-typically-form-in-december-across-the-united-states/)\n\nNot as common as during spring/summer months, but still not that uncommon.", "The Amazon warehouse was in Illinois. That was hit by a different tornado, I think.", "I work on a 3 million Square foot factory and we have lots of shelter areas. We call them \"block houses\" because they are made of reinforced cinderblock with reinforced roofs. Pretty much all our bathrooms, supervisor and engineering outposts and our satellite cafeterias are all blockhouses. \n\nAt my old job we would go into the tunnels under the plant when we got the severe weather warnings.", "Big business generally don't care for what they use as building materials. Damages are insured and employees are replaceable.", "A tornado can move up to 40MPH on the ground, if you aren't already in your car, do you think you would have time to gather what you need, get in the car, drive out of the parking lot, and then find a road that takes you away from the tornado every single time?", "If I remeber correctly though hurricanes have been happening more but on average been weaker the last decade or two", "Most places in Missouri have basements or shelters. My sister got married during this yesterday and the country club had a basement we had to stay in for over an HR.", "El Niño/La Niña are part of a pattern called ENSO, or El Niño-Southern Oscillation.", "Whenever I see these videos I try to imagine what the settlers and native Americans did when they first encountered these storms. They had to have been absolutely terrifying.", "If they also reference drinking fireball nips, we’ll know 100%", "The last winter one I remember was New year's day around 2008-2010 and it tore through the airport in STL.", "Not combating it at all. But attributing every weather event to climate change does nothing to progress the debate. \n\nhttps://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/enso/tornados-and-la-niña-2021-edition", "These are the type of beasts that scare me. 😫😫😫", "I live in mayfield. I can’t speak for the candle factory but my restaurant sent us home 1 hour early but that’s it", "So it would seem 😅", "Nope. Climate change.", "Sure, La Niña bas an effect, but do you maybe have any links that show earlier historical data of other La Niña years that produced as many, or as close to as many, tornadoes as I provided for the three months of 2020?", "All the sneezes, yes. A single sneeze, no. I think that at least some people who don't understand global warming basically don't understand the difference between weather and climate, so it's useful to be clear.", "I was driving home from work in mayfield ky last night at the same time the tornado was going through and I suspect I would’ve been able to see it if it were daytime", "There was 110 people inside the candle factory\n\nEdit: were* I was tired", "Reference the link? 2011 was the last La Niña year and produced record tornadoes.", "This is brilliant. I nominate you to be the president.", "Wait, it was as big as 4 states or it moved through 4 states? Both are terrifying but one is more so\n\nedit - obviously it moved through 4 states, it couldnt be as big as 4 states. Nevermind me or this comment.", "Probably because Midwesterners whine all the time and Coasties pick up the bill.", "I'm from the Midwest and live on the east coast. Stop fighting like children. Both places are cool.", "You're an idiot....", "One of them Yankee Candles", "There was a really intense dust storm one year, couldn’t see past my nose, high winds, I’m walking along and a car port just appears tumbling above me from the dust and almost crushed me. I jumped back just in time as it landed right in front of me. The camp it belonged to said it was staked down pretty tight", "Alright then, you're still a cunt for posting it. Take care of your mental health.", "A Tornado by day looks scary as hell but something about one at night, lit only by lightning is far more menacing", "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad tornado on the run", "Yeah I'll take -25° and snow in Canada any day over this.", "i can attest to this, i've been all around Cape Girardeau (and parts of Arkansas)", "I live right outside and work in Mayfield. The downtown area was completely leveled. There is almost nothing left. It’s the wildest thing I’ve ever seen.", "reminds me a bit of Cloverfield.", "I used to live in the northeast. I like my disasters being predictable. None of this tornado or electricity failing because it's mildly cold out nonsense", "Yeah, I can't recall a tornado with a kill count [in the hundreds of thousands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami) though.", "This type of shit every year and they still build their powerlines above ground. Wacky.", "[2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami) \n \n >The 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami (also known as the Boxing Day Tsunami and, by the scientific community, the Sumatra–Andaman earthquake) occurred at 07:58:53 in local time (UTC+7) on 26 December, with an epicentre off the west coast of northern Sumatra, Indonesia. It was an undersea megathrust earthquake that registered a magnitude of 9. 1–9. 3 Mw, reaching a Mercalli intensity up to IX in certain areas.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Wow", "Yeah, no. I am in Tulsa, and last month we had a tornado that formed in the city in a matter of minutes. Like, I went to pick up dinner at 6:40 and it wasn’t even raining, and the forecast for the night was some minor rain. By 7:10, a tornado formed over the city and sirens were going off. Luckily it didn’t do too much damage, but my point is, they are extremely unpredictable, hard to forecast, and come FAST.", "Same. NE Arkansas has been the worst place I've lived so far. Definitely are some beautiful areas in the state though.", "Sounded like a damned freight train derailing from Palmer to Wasilla.", "So your work sent you home before the tornado? Why didn't the factory?", "I saw one exactly like this with my mom about 25 years ago in Wisconsin. It was pouring rain so hard she had to pull over. The only thing we could see was a big funnel in the distance when the lightning struck. \n\nLike 10 years later at Thanksgiving I was telling the story and said \"I wasn't scared though because mom was so calm\"... she looked at me and said \"that was the most scared I've ever been in my life\"", "This reminds me of the ending scene in Twister when the tornado comes at night and the lightening is the only way they see it.", "Haha TIL earthquakes can cause lag IRL!", "I live in San Diego, so all we get are tremors, but the last time one went through, I had just taken a massive dab hit, and was confused if the weed had just hit me that hard, or what had happened. I realized a few seconds later what had happened", "The only way to stop a bad guy with a tornado…", "just another idiotic group of anti science morons... Because we clearly don't have enough of them in the US", "Pending NWS investigation of the damage, it could be. It's possible that it lifted briefly somewhere along the stretch, which would mean it wasn't one single tornado the whole time. Based on the radar, though, it looks entirely possible that it was on the ground from Weldon, AR to almost Louisville KY. For the record, it's likely that the Tri-State Tornado briefly lifted a few times along its path as well. It's kinda arbitrary, though, whether it was one tornado or a family of tornadoes. It's a 300 mile path of devastation either way, whether a few miles were spared here and there makes little difference overall.", "Just casually filming the literal apocalypse coming down the road towards you", "Yes, that one was different, near St. Louis. This possible quad-state tornado did not pass into Illinois (AR-MO-TN-KY)", "Ive never seen such a wide tornado before, very wide. massive really meant massive", "Good ol Chris farley", "In the olden days before everyone had a cell phone they would sell the footage to TV news channels/film makers/whatever and make money. I think they still do that because the footage they take is probably still better than amateur stuff. The footage and the instrument reading they take around the storm does have some scientific value but a lot of storm chasers chance storms because they like chancing storms.", "Is flyover state considered an insult? I honestly thought it was a just a commonly used term to describe the large patches of farmland/nature in the middle of the country.", "I grew up in Arkansas. I've seen so many and been in so many tornadoes.\n\nLiving in California now, so far I have only experienced a 3.8 earthquake.", "We actually don’t think about you at all.", "Still amazing his ego was THAT fragile that changing weather forecasts made him have to \"fix\" the map so he wouldn't be wrong.", "Not since the late 80s, we can detect wind speed quite accurately with radar. What we can't do is confirm a touchdown with radar.", "Also the torrential rain likely made it easier to sneak a piss.", "am Texan, and can confirm. We have had plenty of storms that produce tornadoes between October and December. I'll never forget the tornadic storm the day after christmas in 2015 that was close to our apartment and went and beat the shit outta Rockwall.", "Like a horror movie when a light flickers and shows a brief glimpse of the monster", "Amazon? The employees probably had to die holding in their urine", "Tell that to Tuscaloosa, Alabama.", "thats par for the course for thunderstorms in tornado ally", "The tri state tornado path length that was thought to likely never happen again happened again...", "KY governor saying worst in KY history, they believe.\n\nReminder that more frequent extreme weather is a result of climate change. Outlier disasters will become the norm if things don't change quickly. - [NASA, along with the consensus of scientists in the field.](https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/)", "God is seriously pissed about Midwest politics and morals. I hope the people there take this as a sign from the Lord their god that it is.", "How common is it for that area to get tornadoes in December, especially of that magnitude?", "The drive in scene was so well done.", "News conference said upwards of 70 and could surpass 100", "Posting this yet again...\n\nDon't spout shit about links between tornadoes and climate change when you don't know what you're talking about. Scientists are not sure whether climate change will lead to more/stronger/longer lived tornadoes. There's more that plays into a tornado than just heat. That's one component, but other components (such as wind shear) may actually weaken as the Earth warms. Studies conflict, and there is certainly not a scientific consensus on it.\n\n[Source 1](https://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/tornadoes-and-climate-change/)\n\n[Source 2](https://www.carbonbrief.org/tornadoes-and-climate-change-what-does-the-science-say-2)\n\n[Source 3](https://www.c2es.org/content/tornadoes-and-climate-change/)\n\nThis is not to mention the fact that any singular event, especially something as small (on the grand scheme of Earth's weather) as a tornado, can be directly attributed to climate change with certainty.\n\nIt's important to be smart when you're attributing things to climate change, or else you're just giving people who don't believe in it more arguments to work with. Tornadoes do not necessarily fall into the same category as droughts, wildfires, hurricanes, etc when it comes to climate change --> more natural disasters.\n\n---\n\nDecember tornadoes are not that rare in the south. They're less common than they are in spring, but far from unheard of.\n\nIt could make sense that climate change could lead to more winter tornadoes specifically. For severe storms in the winter, heat is usually the limiting factor, so adding more heat to the equation could maybe increase the chances of winter outbreaks. That's just my conjecture, though. It's certainly not scientific consensus. And again, one single weather event cannot be attributed to climate change. Climate change is about patterns, not events.", "How many times did you take the third option and just sleep in your storm shelter?", "I’m a soils engineer and I didn’t even know Utah HAD earthquakes until I started working (in California, but we have a sister branch over in Utah). I remember one day my old boss looked kind of somber and told me most of the people of Utah live within a major fault (Wasatch?) and the infrastructure is just not ready for a major quake 😔", "maybe we can use this as evidence for climat change", "These things are just going to keep getting worse and worse…", "So you don't know whether they did or didnt have a shelter room?", "See I think Tornados are scarier because you can see them. You can watch the news and they can tell you \"This is the path it's taking\" and know like.. holy shit we need to run. \n\nI've seen ONE Tornado in Massachusetts that was bad (it was actually multiple at once) and by midwest standards they were probably nothing. \n\nI thought it wasn't a big deal, told everyone to chill cause when do we get tornados? Shit was literally across the lake from my house. The aftermath just from the forest around us looked like a fucking kamehameha went through. \n\nEarthquakes are less scary to me because you just don't know where it is, don't have time to react. You just deal with it when it happens.", "Every city has whiny morons. And we are all 'picking up the bill'. Stop acting like you have a 'bible belt tax' on your fillings every year.", "La Niña ", "I'm curious why you say Lord be with them. Is not a tornado the most obvious evidence that if such a Lord existed he wanted to specifically fuck these people up?", "People literally lost their LIVES, their homes, their businesses. I understand you're just trying to be funny, but this really isn't the situation to try that crap.", "I’m from Georgia and now live in Washington. I’d still take a hurricane over the earthquake and volcanoes here. But I hate the weather down south.", "As a Missourian, earthquakes scare me more because they're less predictable. I was doing the stereotypical midwestern thing of standing on the porch watching the storms yesterday haha", "Yeah at least with an earthquake you are still in the same county when finished! Give me an earthquake any day over a tornado or hurricane!", "Right, but excluding destruction from the scale entirely, and only basing it off of size and wind speed just doesn’t make any sense.", "That was really cool. Almost like a horror movie. Could only see the tornado in the lightning strikes.", "This is like a horror movie.", "Yeah that one definitely counts as a big earthquake. 63 people died. And It's definitely more than \"a few years back\" haha. I lived right on top of the Northridge quake in 94, I was a kid and it was fucking terrifying. 57 people died in that one. Gave me a lifelong respect for their power and constantly wondering when and where the next one will be", "I’ll never understand people who think there is a god controlling all this shit.", "Is this normal for December?", "The events are roughly natural on their own and not entirely caused by climate change alone, but it does increase how much they can step out of the average as this event shows. It pushes the boundary for what we view as extreme events and makes them more common.", "I live in Anchorage, Alaska where we had a 7.1 earthquake that was terrifying. But after living in Missouri when I was younger, no natural disaster scares me as much as a tornado.", "Yes and no. NY's worst tornados all happened in the 19th century.", "One of my favorite scenes of movie alongside \"Where's my truck?\" and \"I think it's the same cow\".", "Can you explain what \"gate to gate shear\" means?", "Nah, need to tell it that it's a greedy Capitalist tornado doing the bidding of corporations.", "Was this uploaded anywhere other than Youtube to view it without as much video compression ruining the picture?", "was any of my fellow Missourians hurt", ">whether a few miles were spared here and there makes little difference overall.\n\nUnless you were in them. Imagine being directly in the line of a tornado like that and then just everything is fucked for 148 miles before your little town, and then everything is fucked for 150 miles after your little town, but somehow it just skips right over you. I'm sure it happens anecdotally all the time and all over the place in small pieces, but still a pretty crazy thing to potentially have happen to you.", "Whatever it was, the scale of damage is like a huge hurricane here in Florida.\n\nI must say I am seriously impressed with the amount of rescue people and vehicles in the above drone video. All those people raced from their homes and work, which may also have been in danger or damaged, to lend assistance. In the middle of the night while a storm still raged.\n\nJust so surreal.", "I hope pecos Hank did some spotting on it", "Arkansas is a wonderful land. The people there, oh boy...", "Wow. Max Olson had no fear. Incredible video", "Yeah, by their own logic isn't this God punishing them for... well I'd assume the state of middle American Christianity would be reason enough. If Jesus saw his follower vote for Trump he'd beat them with a belt according to the Bible itself. \nSo Lord be with them seems silly. Their lord came and he was a giant tornado that fucked them up.", "As my wife and children were cuddled-up in our bathroom and the roof was being ripped off, I screamed, “It’s okay, hun! It’s just a couple of shingles!”\n\n-May 27th, 2019. \n\nGood humor just wasted…", "Typically it’s meant to mean that there’s almost nothing worth stopping for, thus every one just flies over them.", "They really are. Including the ones hidden in rain.\n\nI’m in Washington and back in like 2018 there was an earthquake at like 1 am. It was my first one and I remember my dream started to taking on what was happening to the point I woke up and sat up in bed. Bed was shaking, I could hear things on my dresser moving and then it stopped. Scariest thing in my life so far. Any natural event at night scares the hell out of me personally\n\nEdit: it was 2019, not 2018.", "I experienced a 8.8 in Chile, 2010. 0/10 would not recommend.", "What does that mean exactly?", "Of course, people's entire lives will change based on little jumps like that. I was more referring to the scale of the entire event. It's not really much less devastating if it was a single 300 mile tornado, or 5 59-mile tornadoes with 1-mile jumps in between.", "I know those sirens are important, but they gave me PTSD. Now, every time we have a storm, I'm worried it's going to go off again.", "It literally took me a minute to process this. Like fuck they have tornadoes at night now? Damn.", "Well damn... a Candle in the Wind if you will. Burnt out long before it's time.", "As a former resident of Cape Girardeau I second this.", "Came here to ask this. Thanks. And holy shit, that’s horrifying.\n\nGood thing climate change isn’t real and anomalous weather like this isn’t going to keep getting more common, amirite? /s", "I was hearing that four tornadoes touched down. I would assume it lifted", "Yeah. I live in slc and even most people here are not aware of the potential danger. Last year's quake wasn't even the Wasatch fault. When it goes it'll be devastating. Pretty much all of downtown, including the U of U, and north enough to hit most Ogden related suburbs, all the way south to Provo which is an up and coming area for tech. \n\nThe vast majority of residents live by the east mountains, right on top of the fault. In the older parts of the valley the houses were all built 1900s-1920s. \n\n\nFun story, during last years equake the main temple's statue of Moroni had his trumpet shook loose and it fell from the temple. During the end times he's supposed to 'come alive' and sound the trumpet as warning. .. so... nice to know our earthquake warning system is officially broken.\n\nedit: more fun. You can hear the earthquake before it hits. The main shake was early in the morning so most people were dead asleep and awoken by the shaking, but you could hear the after shocks a second before it hit. It was quieter than a tornado, but a very similar feeling hit the bottom of my stomach. My lizard brain was screaming get the fuck out of this ancient brick house", "It is more expensive to build lines underground. The added cost to move all lines underground is far greater than the cost to rebuild the relative few damaged in storms.", "Nighttime tornados at that", "Destruction isn't useful in a scientific context of studying storms or climate. A half mile wide tornado with speeds of 300MPH isn't a different type of tornado based on if it goes through a field or through a wealthy neighborhood... It's still a 1/2 mile wide 300MPH tornado.", "With all of the weather events this year, anyone who says it’s not the product of climate change is a fucking idiot. Calling it a once in a century event to deny it further despite these major weather systems happening across the globe.", "I would have thought it would pay itself off by not having to be building new ones. England doesn't get tornados and all the powerlines are underground there.", "A lot of the more experienced ones are in contact with government services and they can report position and strength so that they can provide warnings to the public.", "No joke---at 3:23 I thought he was queuing up the song, \"Another One Bites the Dust.\"", "I live in Alabama, but last week when I was setting up for my work's Christmas party it was really really warm. One of the ladies said it reminded her of tornado weather and I put it off as something that just couldn't happen. I hate that she was right.", "[This website](https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-how-climate-change-affects-extreme-weather-around-the-world) might interest you.", "The train may be slow now, but it sure as hell seems to be accelerating. I fear for my kids and their kids in 50-80 years.", "We apologise for the fault in the comments. Those responsible have been sacked.", "From what I can gather, it's a measurement of the windspeed at, or close to, the point of rotation. Where the inbound and outbound winds meet makes the gate. That's about as ELI5 as I can make it.", "I’ll never forget it. Oct 89. Sitting at my apple computer at age 10. Rocks flying across the yard from our house, our dog freaking out, and my dad stuck for 10 hours on the freeway after leaving the Giants vs A’s game.", "Really rare, can't remember ever having a sighting in December.\n\nEdit: i guess December nados aren't super rare for illinois/missouri, just from my experience in my area i can't remember any. If some F0's dinged up some roofs 2 hours away four years ago I'm not going to remember.", "Aka hail", "Sorry, yeah. It sounds like my comment was meant to be contrary to yours but I 100% agree with you. \n\nI was just commenting about how crazy those little gaps can be to a town or some homes or a single person. Just never know what nature will do or how lucky/unlucky you might get. That a tornado can go 300 miles and spare random little pieces of that seemingly at random. It's wild. But yeah, the overall \"record\" of a tornado and it's scale aren't really altered by little blips in the path.", "I believe it was El Nina during 2011 as well. When hundreds of tornadoes touched down. I believe it involved Moore, OK and the major one in Alabama.", "How many times did Republicans in Kentucky vote against money for infrastructure to protect people from stuff like this? Rand Paul? McConnell all stopping infrastructure and this is what happens when these people are in charge.", "I cant wait to see the pecos hank breakdown of this tornado outbreak.", "I've spent a lot of time abroad.\n\nI have to explain over and over that we don't all jump in our cars and play hide and seek with the tornados.", "Lol flyover states poor* rofl", "Born in the midwest. \n\nGotta have that bug out bag ready for the thunderstorms. And for the love of God, put some shoes nearby. You'll make it to the shelter without shoes, but getting out and walking around after will be a treat.", "What is this in reference to, if I may ask?", "Absolutely agree!", "I suggest you look at tornadoes per year. It's not increasing outside of better reporting. That's entirely discounting that the comment I replied to insinuated the length was due to climate change.", "It's actually BoothEel", "In my 3rd floor apartment with paper thin walls. It is probably what happened to some of these people that passed away in this tragedy.", "Same line is coming thru ga today. Dont think its gonna be that severe tho", "When your governor uses god as some sort of political tool - this is what god does to you.", "Yup. Washington was hit with 100 degree weather this summer and that is NOT normal in the slightest. The coverage was downplayed by the news across the nation as they used pictures of people running through sprinklers to cool down. There were like 50-100 deaths. Climate deniers are pieces of shit at this point.", "There were also tornadoes in other places (i.e. the one that hit the Amazon warehouse in Illinois) if that's what you mean by other tornadoes that touched down.", "Game of Thrones S8E3", "Earthquakes in areas that are poor or have poor infrastructure are devastating. Think Haiti 9 years ago. Their country was decimated--thousands died and more were displaced. Sure a tornado through a densely populated area would have devastating impact but I don't think it'd be on the scale of an earthquake. \n\nEarthquakes can also cause subsequent disasters like tsunamis. Sri Lanka in 2004 was hit by a tsunami caused by an earthquake and the death toll alone was tens of thousands. The Fukushima nuclear reactor meltdown was also blamed on an earthquake. I don't know of a time when a tornado triggered similar incidents.", "I feel like this is Biden or the millennials’ fault.", "As a native Cali dude visiting Dallas, I was asked how I could live in a place that has earthquakes. \nUmm...You guys have tornado SEASON, and live in a place called TORNADO ALLEY.", "Small solace from nature to allow us a glimpse of the horror coming our way.", "Can I just ask: Is December tornado season in these places?\n\nBecause it's spring and summer where I'm from.", "Umm, sir, this is an Arby's", "“Oh you’re praying for someone? That god himself killed? Checkmate. How dare you do your best for people that are dead and you cannot affect otherwise?”\n\nfuckin Reddit atheist moment.", "For those of us that live around affected areas of these storms, they are almost always at night. I think I've been in like two or three daytime severe storms in my 33 years.", "The simulation budget was running low so they can only afford night time CGI", "Tornado alley is turning into tornado boulevard.", "A lot of people are saying no but that is just not true\n\n\nDecember tornado are not that uncommon at least in Missouri. But they are usually more out west and they are also usually but not always weaker then the the spring season.\n\nIn 2010 there were 18 tornados in a single day in Missouri on December 31\n\n\nIn 1982 there were 28 tornados in Missouri throughout the month of December. (With 15 of them in a single day)\n\nThere is an average of 2 tornados in December every year in Missouri (compared to 14 in april). Most of the time they hit nothing but every now and again it hits populated areas", "I've lived through three separate tornadoes coming within less than a half mile from us. Two of which either passed within ft or right over where we were.\n\nI HATE Thunderstorms because of this. I don't understand people that say they love storms. Like bitch, do you know what usually comes with those? Death and Destruction. No thanks. I don't want to tempt the gods with gentle storms because they can easily shift to absolutely damaging forces of nature.", "It's a new thing, basically a [thunderstorm/snowstorm combination.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0mfDZxSN8w) It happened a couple times near me last year and seems like it will be more common going forward.", "There is literally a Tornado season. There is literally a place called Tornado Alley. \nI know, technically, there are fault lines that make an area susceptible to earthquakes. There is NO earthquake season. \nEVERY. FUCKIN. YEAR. Somebodies shit gets fucked up by tornadoes.", "[ Jump to 03:23 @ MASSIVE Tornado Strikes Southern Missouri - December 10, 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqo73abwcGI&t=0h3m23s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Max Olson Chasing, Video Popularity: 98.79%, Video Length: [04:08])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@03:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqo73abwcGI&t=0h3m18s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Yep, it’s global warming", "Tornadoes can be surprisingly quiet until they are on top of you, we had one go through town earlier this year and nobody knew it was there until it had already been on the ground and torn through a couple subdivisions before sirens went off. We don't get them a lot up here compared to the U.S. (Canada) but it struck without warning. The skies were dark, but not green or frightening in appearance.", "What are you talking about! It was cold a few days ago! s/", "Not discounting how crazy this was at all but I was actually a conductor/engineer in the Midwest for 12 years. Not unheard of for a tornado or even straight line winds to derail cars. Some of the lighter cars like empty road railers and taller cars like empty auto racks are more susceptible to high winds than you'd think. Now if it was a loaded grain or tank car that wod be insane.", "Quite possibly. I was streaming CBSN and the news anchors from a Kentucky news channel said four. Power went out so I couldn’t finish it. We are having heavy windstorms in WA and it wasn’t up when the power came back on.", "In December now! Merry Climate Change!", "While a tornado is devastating, it also generally only hits a small area when talking about a state as a whole. They don't hit the same places predictably enough to also narrow in exactly which areas will need the underground lines. Also, the states that get more tornados are also not the best-funded so there are higher priority things to invest in. Additionally, there are many problems with short-term planning, especially when politics gets involved because you wouldn't want to do something that takes a long time to finish and makes the person elected after you look good when you can get small wins in the short term that make you look good.", "This is the new normal.\n\nNaw yeah just kidding. It'll get WAY WORSE than this going forward.", "There’s nothing quite as alarming as watching an afternoon storm roll in over Brooklyn, see it turn green, realize it ain’t just a regular thunderstorm. I went through 3 tornadoes when I lived there, nyc gets stop rockin thunder but when you’re hunkered down wondering if the office windows are going to blow out that’s a whole new level.", "I could really use some guidance on how to read this. I keep staring at it and it's not resolving itself into meaning.", "I live in Oklahoma, tornado capital of the world, and we had a tornado watch in December once a few years ago and I was absolutely shocked. \n\nHaving tornadoes on the ground in December, especially this big, requires significant energy that you only get from very sharp heat gradients. This is absolutely the result of changing climate.", "Which is saying something. I hate being from here but honestly, we’ve got it good in comparison.", "Right…. That’s why I said it should play a role on the scale. Not the entire role…..", "Oklahoma scoffs at this.", "There’s thunder and lightning in turners falls right now. What the fuck.", "I just moved out of Missouri. That one was far from where I used to lived, but I still noped the fuck out there. I have no desire to get close to one of those let alone have to deal with one in the middle of night.", "Cape's alright. I used to travel there work. Best grocery store donuts ever in that one place. Shnooks?", "It's clear that a pattern on increasingly extremely weather events is occurring but keep going on with your take. \n\nAfter a certain point, climate drives weather\n\nIs it 100% certain... No , is it highly likely, Fuck Yes!!", "Night sinkholes are equally fucked", "I'm not a city planner but as time goes on wouldn't it save more money? If you get hit regularly with this kind of weather the cost of rebuilding is an on-going cost, so paying more to put a stop to that recurring problem would pay for itself and save money over time, I would think.", "Schnuck’s! And wow, here I am learning that Schnuck’s is more regional than I thought.", "I’ll take a Prairie blizzard anytime. Hunker down at home, binge watch your favourite series, fill your face with snack food and wait for my neighbour with our jointly owned snowblower.", "The regional center is actually in Paducah, KY, who would be the ones issuing warnings.", "That’s fair. I like that about Cape as well. Perhaps I’m soured by having lived there for so long.", "Not Utah, but wait til you hear about the New Madrid fault!", "Live in Western Washington where we rarely get thunder. Visit Dallas often. Don't know how anyone sleeps with those half-the-night thunderstorms.", "Tornadoes usually have huge lightning, you just can't see it as well during the day hours. Big hail, too--storm chasers routinely have to replace windshields and get huge dents in their cars because the cell that creates a tornado just keeps hail up there growing for a long time.", "What does it sound like?", "> Just the sound of a tornado triggers a primal fear in most people.\n\nthe floor suddenly becoming unstable unleashes more of a primal fear\n\nan absolute constant that is always reliable - the floor being solid and then you feel it shake. It makes you realise how mortal you are, that nothing is for granted - its very surreal and fucking awful\n\nOnce you experienced one tell me if you still feel the same - it fucks you up in a way that you dont even realise", "Can someone ELI5 what is happening inside that tunnel area as we are watching? And is it not a life sentence for this guy to go this close, or is it safe outside the tunnel?", "Sooo… I guess my mom lied to me when she said tornados and lightning can’t exist in the same space…", "Thanks for posting this. \n\nI'm from Mayfield, currently living in Cincinnati. I didn't like living there, but seeing it like this is heartwrenching. Businesses of family and friends are gone. Their homes. Massive brick churches I recognize (including the one I went to as a kid) vaporized. I have a few friends missing, but thankfully my immediate family is okay.\n\n110 people were in a candle factory. They're currently being pulled out. The lucky ones were crushed, many burned, according to my friend in the fire department. It's not clear how many people made it.", "[This live stream](https://youtu.be/yJeXIX-hscU?t=19367) stated they detected debris 27,000 feet in the air on radar. Absolutely astounding.", "Some want to sell footage, others are reporters, researchers, or thrillseekers who just want to see a tornado. There's no one size fits all. But between all the different groups a lot of old time storm chasers have retired because \"you can be on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere in bumper to bumper traffic.\" It's not as fun to chase because it's so clogged up now, and it's definitely less safe if you need to make a quick getaway.", "I mean we get blizzards, smaller tornadoes and hurricanes sometimes. In general though, yeah you're right New England is one of the more mild natural disaster areas which is nice\n\nThat is if you don't classify Massachusetts driving as a natural disaster", "what it looks like usually\n\nhttps://www.google.com/maps/@36.7285249,-88.6615104,3a,75y,193.14h,74.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAKqeht0OSlmRZG7DkzYIPg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656\n\nwebsite says - temporarily closed, yeah, no shit!!!", ">western MA\n\nMy condolences friend", "https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7285249,-88.6615104,3a,75y,193.14h,74.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAKqeht0OSlmRZG7DkzYIPg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656", "I've personally been inside the factory before. There was no basement to my knowledge.", "Mysteriously, none of the news articles detailing the warehouse collapse mention a shelter. It must be the liberal media trying to slander hardworking capitalists again.", "In some newer areas they require it (some, not all). But a lot of these neighborhoods are older before anyone even thought of such a thing. Shelters, even a small one, can be kind of expensive and most builders/homeowners don't want to foot that cost unless the city makes them.\n\nThen a tornado happens and suddenly everyone wishes they had one.", "i don't understand the disagreement here... you said yourself that it's a pattern not individual weather events that proves climate change to be real", "[tRump and his sharpie.](https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2019/09/06/reality-check-sharpie-trump-avlon-vpx.cnn)", "Ah, the irony of red states being destroyed by climate change.\n\nIt's not real though, definitely not.", "I think people are missing the implied /s of this comment.", "There was one about 100 years ago called the tri state tornado. This one would be on par with it.", "I live in Tokyo. Can confirm: you are literally powerless in the face of an earthquake. An earthquake strikes with almost no warning, can last a mere 30-60 seconds and you have no idea if it's just a 'minor' quake or a once-in-a-thousand years mega-quake that's going obliterate you. I suppose it's pretty much the same with a tornado, though. :)", "And politics", "The colors are in relation to the radar site. More towards red on the spectrum is velocity away from the radar site and more towards blue is velocity towards the radar site. When you have a line like this one of opposing color shifts it indicates an area of wind shear.", "Tornadoes are also really localized events as far as natural disasters go. Sure, powerful tornadoes are scary and destructive, but stuff like earthquakes and hurricanes affect a huge area, tornadoes just hit a very narrow line comparatively. Have to get pretty darn unlucky to be caught by a tornado.", "Surprise plays a big part for sure but I wouldnt say its always the case. The nursing homes that got hit last night probably didnt have any real solid shelter from a tornado (just like the majority of homes ive seen). So when a tornado is that big or strong it'll just wreck everything it touches and, mostly, a mattress over the bathtub or a closet wont save you.", "If you have access to Disney+, there's a series called Storm Rising and they are scientists chasing storms. It's pretty interesting for finding out what they're thinking", "I was driving during the same earthquake. Same thing, I thought I somehow had four flat tires….until I saw the telephone poles whipping back and forth. Your mind slows down, and I remember clearly thinking “I had no idea that a telephone pole could bend so far without breaking”.", "Oh. Ouch...", "If you're in San Diego then you're thinking of the Easter earthquake from 2010.", "I'm way more frightened of the wind driven fires of CA than earthquakes. They even produce firenados!", "Umm, individual events make up a pattern", "Is there an instance where it was only in a field and the rating was different than it would be based on size and wind speed?", "There were historic brick and masonry building that were turned to rubble too.", "> It's like God himself ran a finger across the surface of our planet, destroying anything it touches.\n\nJust wanted to say that I really like this sentence. Thanks for writing it!", "The near strobe like effects of the lightning really set the mood. Don't think I've seen a video with that consistency other than the [Catatumbo lightning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catatumbo_lightning).", "That lightning was almost continuous in the beginning!", "Just woke up to finding out about this. My gramps is in Paducah and haven't heard a single word from him. This is wild and very unusual.", "A few years ago, a small earthquake hit central Illinois early in the morning. My bed started to shake and woke me up. Then, it happened again. I legit thought it was ghosts before an earthquake. That’s how rare they are here.", "as someone from Oklahoma, I'm mostly numb to this but holy fuck that's a big one", "At least 70 dead so far and climbing.", "It should be the ENTIRE definition. The destruction caused means nothing for the strength of the tornado, only that it hit something it could destroy.\n\nAn F1 tornado can cause $1 in damage or it can cause $1,000,000,000 in damage... you don't redefine an F1 to an F5 just because it destroyed a yacht.", "I should look up the fault line I moved over near the Ogden bench or whatever they call it last year.", "Oh, Ive lived in 49 states so far, experienced an earthquake about once a decade in IN, KY, and PA. I knew what they were though because I lived the first 5 years of my life in Corona, CA.", "Yeah I’ve lived all over the states and I rather enjoy the different cultures. Especially the southern ones. People can be so… tribal? East Coast vs the Midwest. What are we, gang members?", "Those two movements are calked S waves and P waves. \n\nP waves are slower, side to side motions, and they happen first. S waves are the more violent up and down jolts. In smaller earthquakes it’s likely you never felt the P waves, they’re easy to not notice. P waves travel faster than S waves, so the farther apart in time those two movements happen, the farther away you are from the epicenter. When they happen within a second or two of each other, the epicenter is only a few miles away.", "I wasn't quite that mellow, lol. We had just had an earthquake drill earlier in the day because it was the anniversary of a big one in 1985. I was home for lunch literally reading news about the drill when the alarm sounded. Normally the alarm gives people 10-15 seconds because the big ones come from the coast, but this one was like 75 miles away and started instantly, so I couldn't get out. It shook my building so hard, it was difficult to stand and I thought it was going to collapse. I eventually had to move because the supports were all cracked. I spent the next few days helping at building collapses. I had a little bit of PTSD after, and for months would have nightmares where I would wake up thinking the alarm was going off or that the building I was in was moving. I could've used some weed! Having spent a lot of times in the Midwest going to the basement during a tornado warning, I'd gladly take the possibility of a tornado.", "People that don't live in California overreact about earthquakes and wildfires. A majority of the population in California doesn't live in high fire severity areas. California has a massive amount of wildland and those that are rural or in the wildland urban interface are the only ones at risk. It's not like wildfires are burning down major urban areas. \n\nAnd we have been retrofitting old building for earthquakes for years. Our modern construction methods leads to very little danger from earthquakes. \n\nCalifornia isn't in as much danger from natural disaster as people not from here like to believe.", "And in California everything’s burning and waters running out. Pick your poison.", "Literally thousands of instances due to the EF scale because it is defined by the damage it causes.\n\n[https://www.weather.gov/oun/efscale](https://www.weather.gov/oun/efscale)", "The guy from truck RIP", "Where I live in Michigan the sirens go off for \"severe storms\" so now nobody even pays attention to them. Those sirens should only sound when it's time to get under the fucking ground and nothing else. They are useless now.", "I gotta go, Julia, we got COWS!", "we live in nwa, we got hit last night by the storm that produced this monster, it was pretty scary.", "Geo Gang", "Sounds like \"siren fatigue\" if there is such a thing.", "I was driving home from college and drove into the aftermath of one crossing the highway a few minutes before I got there. The scene looked very much like the end of this video with overturned and destroyed semis, cars flipped in the median. The first responders had not even arrived yet.", "The most dangerous ones are the pop up storms at night. I've been through many that didn't have warnings until it already passed through. We had one blow through Sunday night when we were just under a severe thunderstorm warning. We wouldn't have made it to the basement if I hadn't been outside with the dog and heard it.", "We had a spooky couple days up here in Oregon this week, with an off-shore fault erupting in a swarm. \n\nLuckily it was not the megathrust, but I guarantee Cascadia will be in the headlines, scare-mongering again now.", "\n>\t…tornadoes that happen out in the middle of a field and never hit any structures cannot effectively be measure for how damaging they are vs tornadoes that do hit structures. Destruction should play a role but not the entire role.\n\nClearly, you have a different opinion than I do about how tornadoes should be classified. That’s fine. The least I ask of you is to not ignore everything I’ve already said.", "Okay so I must have read the wrong thing but I thought your average tornado lasted like 15 minutes and hit speeds of 20mph.", "I remember getting caught driving at night in the country when the tornado alarm went off on my phone. There was no lightning to see where it was at. Just rain and debris going straight sideways. Terrifying.", "it's weird to listen to guys whose hobby/career is around a weather event that destroys and kills lives. You can hear their excitement in their voice as they chase this thing for content, but yet the thing they are making money off of is so awful.", "Thanks.", "Like the china town scene from Godzilla 2014.", "Still weird to make a comment about a completely unrelated topic espoused the .000001% of society.", "They would have had plenty of warning, or people who should have been getting workers to safety had plenty of warning. We knew there was a chance for horrible tornadoes more than 24 hours before the storms hit, and local news stations were covering the tornado and warning people in Mayfield for quite some time before it hit the town.\n\nEDIT: Sounds like, according to at least one worker, they did move the workers to the buildings safe area, but the building took a direct hit from a gigantic tornado and the safe zone wasn't strong enough.", "Here in the Atlanta area I'd love a schnucks. Best bakery, good prices, doesn't try to be overly fancy like all our options.", "As someone from the bootheel…stay away.", "a tornado that you can only see when lightning lights up the sky is about the most terrifying thing I can think of.", "nature u scary", "I have family that lives in Cape and Sikeston. My cousin lives in Miner.", "I love Monty python. Always makes me laugh", "Usually last less than 30 minutes but ground speeds of 50-60 mph aren’t that unusual. This one was huge, lasted a long time, AND hauled ass.", "Watching it approach a cluster of lights representing a populated area... and all of them go out. \n\nTerrifying.", "I didn't ignore what you said, you're just wrong.\n\nWe don't judge the strength of hurricanes based on how much damage they caused, why would tornadoes be any different?", "I lived in Pittsburg, KS at the time basically right across the border and Joplin was the closest “big” town. I had an appointment to get my dog groomed at pets mart in Joplin that day but I forgot the rabies shot records so they sent me away around 3pm. A couple hours after I got home the tornado hit. I still feel like I dodged a bullet a bit. I would’ve been in Joplin still but who knows if I would’ve been where it hit.", "2011 comes in second for the amount of tornadoes. 2004, a neutral year, comes in first. \n\n\n\nIm so very lost in what you think you're arguing.\n\n\n\n\nEdit: also Nov 2011 had 24 tornadoes. Oct 2011 had 46 confirmed (60 reported) and Dec 2011 had 16.", "If we were talking about hurricanes then it might make more sense, but a typical tornado, while very destructive, only impacts a pretty small area statewide. Also, a tornado would need to be hitting the exact same power lines consistently to make them worth upgrading. If a specific pole survives multiple tornados because it was a few blocks/miles away then it didn't need to be made underground. A big part of engineering isn't to build the best and strongest, but to focus on cost efficiency to maximize what we can do with limited resources, money being one of those resources.", "There's a made-for-TV movie called [Night of the Twisters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Twisters_(film\\)) that was based on real events that happened in 1980. The photo in the [Wikipedia article's summary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Grand_Island_tornado_outbreak) about 1980 tornado \"outbreak\" looks a lot like this video.", "If you live in area that is nature's equivalent of a match box ready to go.\n\nI don't know, they told it sounds like a train and I would try to listen for that if I lied down.", "Hearing stories of ground liquification from earthquakes is crazy scary. Fortunately I live within tornado alley and the New Madrid fault zone.", "Its at night. How are you going to see the sharks at night?", "After last night, I needed that laugh!", "Tornadoes are “fuck this specific place”. Hurricanes/typhoons are fuck all y’all.", "I've found there are bad and good people everywhere you go. There are definitely some backwards thinking people in Arkansas. Plenty of good folks too though.", "I felt that one sitting in my office in RI. Same thing, felt like a truck going by.", "but you can take cover in a basement for a tornado... not sure what safety measures available for earthquakes", "I've always felt the opposite. In MO we rarely have issues with forest fires, flooding, earthquakes, etc. Just a couple times a year you have a close call with a tornado or two", "Your source didn’t list an example of what you are saying. It simply explains the scale. I was asking for an instance in which, for example, an EF 3 went through a field and it was called and EF1 because of no damage. \n\nBased on your other comments you make it seem like you are arguing that the scale changes based on the value of a structure. If it hits a $100,000 home it would be considered weaker than if it hit a million dollar home. It is actually based on construction materials used and strength of vegetation. The value of an object doesn’t determine the tornado strength. It is based on damage to a structure. Ripping trees up, tearing shingles off, knocking a barn down, or tearing a house from its foundation.\n\nThe EF scale actually downgraded speeds in the categories because they used science to figure out what different structures can withstand as far as wind speeds. Engineers and meteorologists came together to determine the new scale. They use damage indicators (DI) and degree of damage (DOD) to make these determinations. To me it seems pretty obvious that wind speeds are proportional to damage done.", "You disagree with how it should be classified. That doesn’t make my statement incorrect. The current scale is based off of damage level. You are the only party here stating it should SOLELY be based off of wind speed and size. I said it should be a combination of damage AND wind speed + size. If anything, of the two of us, you are wrong. You’re taking this entirely too personally.", "Yeah I get it climate change bad….but you can’t just say this one event is absolutely the result of climate change. That’s not how it works.\n\nEdit - all I’m saying is that correlation does not equal causation. Keep downvoting me because you think I’m a climate change denier. I don’t give a fuck lol", "Those Storm Chasers aren't right in the head.", "Arkansas is true Hills Have Eyes country", "Derailment is one thing, but moving it 75 yards? Uphill? Not that we know how far uphill, but it means it didn't tumble there. I've worked in auto rack railcars, I know they're less dense than many, but they all have those steel bogies and frame rails.", "I live in North Carolina and I can deal with the Hurricanes because you have ample warning to get the fuck out of Dodge. Tornados are a whole different level. The bastards just show up, like your mother in law.", "The thing is, there’s a big difference between a tornado watch and a tornado warning. A watch means the at there is a weather system that could produce a tornado. If you live in the Midwest this happens all the time and if you ran for shelter every time it happened you’d never get anything done. It gives you a false sense of security when you get dozens or even hundreds of tornado watches over your lifetime and nothing comes of it other than maybe a small twister out in a field. By the time a warning is issued for your area, a tornado has been spotted and you have literally minutes to get to shelter. It happens very fast.", "I think that was a video cut", "I used to go out and watch too, until I came across a four foot piece of wood buried 3-and-a-half feet in the ground after one storm", "I experienced an earthquake in the middle of the night in southern Illinois about 12 years ago, and when I woke up I actually thought that it was a tornado bearing down on my house.", "It's not this one event. It's part of a pattern.", "You’re talking out of your ass. There is absolutely no way to compare these two things, and a strong earthquake in a populated area is catastrophic.\n\nLike, say this to the 300,000 people that died in Haiti in 2010.", "It’s a way to measure the wind speed.", "Sooooo, too soon?", "doing your best would be donating your money or efforts, you’re doing nothing while deluding yourself into feeling like you’re doing something as a replacement for actually doing something which is more harmful than doing nothing", "Especially dangerous at nighttime while driving in heavy rain on the highway. You can be heading straight into one without a clue. Terrifying.", "they care about money and don’t care about the employees who they have to pay", "Nope. Neither is 20F weather one week and 70F weather the next week, though.", "This event plus the new years tornado that blasted through Fenton in 2011, plus the un unseasonably warm temperatures we've been seeing all week, plus the ridiculous flooding over the past few years, plus the uptick in violent hurricanes....\n\n\nExpect more, expect worse, and nobody is going to do anything about it because \"the problem is a hoax\".\n\n\n\nIn the next 3 years I expect the st louis arch to be under water or hit by a tornado big enough to knock it down. And that's me being optimistic.", "Yeah took me a second to realize lightning in front of the tornado won't show it. Terrifying.", "Still waiting on the Big One though that's supposed to happen. Northridge in 94 and the one in 89 during the World Series were epic.", "The wind speed was 300 mph", "Are we voting? Cuz my vote of biggest nature fuck you is massive, rush hour earthquakes.", "The only thing more terrifying than a tornado is a night time tornado, bc you can't see where it is, which direction it's heading. No, thanks!", "Haha, the guy did use the word \"exactly\"\n\nI'm assuming they mean what does the gate to gate mean, which gate to what gate? Probably not from the garden gate to the dog pen gate?", "Hey hey... I resemble that remark!!!", "Yeah, agree. OKC here and while we often do know in advance the days where big events can occur and we can sort of plan to be \"weather aware\" as they say, it isn't like we ever know where they really will be and there are always the days where they pop up when the threat was supposed to be low. There was that one that hit El Reno a couple years ago that was just on the leading edge of a squall line that usually isn't a big threat for tornadoes (and even when they have them, they are usually small spin-ups) but this one came down in minutes (like the one in Tulsa you mentioned) and hit a trailer park and hotel with virtually no warning, I think they had maybe a minute or so from when the TV people were just \"monitoring\" things to being in a life or death situation.", "I am in NE Ohio currently and since when do we get tornadoes in December. It was really warm yesterday like 63 . Right now it is storming out and windy. Not a horrible storm though. About 8 years ago occurred the strangest weather ever. One night it was a snow storm,a thunderstorm and lightning at once. Occurred in December. Ohiogenerally doesn’t get real trauma weather. Drove in a really bad thunderstorm once turns out it was a mild tornado. Trees were downed all across the road.", "For a powerful tornado, like this one, your shelter doesn't really matter if you're not underground, or in a reinforced concrete structure. If you're above ground, you're probably fucked. It doesn't matter if you are in an interior room away from windows if the building you're in is blasted to its foundation.", "That's doing your best?", "It was probably the same one.", "Oh man I live in Illinois about 25 minute drive from stl and we had all the sirens and phone alerts going off in the night. Definitely wasnt expecting pyramid head to stroll by. \n\nWeirdest part of the whole thing was going outside and it was like in the 60's when every other night this week has felt like 20 degrees. Shit was ominous.", "For EF-5s you just have to get underground, or hope it doesn't hit you. If you are directly in it's path, you're done for.", "You also can't just say this is the only event that has been unusual or unprecedented.", "Is this an unusual time to have a tornado? I thought they mostly happened in the spring/summer?", "Don't try to drive away from a tornado, especially at night. You won't know it's exact location, and you're just as likely to drive right into the thing.", "You’re right he should resurrect people killed in a tornado", "Just moved out of North Georgia. The worst is the fall out from the big hurricanes. If they keep hitting the gulf there, North Georgia gets rammed.", "Thanks, didn't know what gate to gate shear meant. Got it now.", "It’s crazy you know he’s not doing any of that, and praying for someone and showing compassion is better than doing nothing. In fact I’m exactly as confident you haven’t donated as you are he hasn’t, lol. Being a dick and debate lording a guy saying “I hope the lord is with them” is so fuckin lame", "I was at work after night when this thing was 30 miles away. Crazy storm.", "As a clarification, the tigernado thing wasn't Joe Exotic's tigers. It was from Tiger Safari in Tuttle. It was pretty peak Oklahoma though.", "Not common, but also not unheard of. The last major outbreak that I recall was December of 2018.", "Ha no, I lived in Cali for a bit and we'd get earthquakes all the time. No big deal!", "This is why it's important to own a weather radio. It will wake you up and alert you if a tornado warning is issued for your area. These days though, your phone should get a loud alert when the NWS issues a warning for your area.", "Yup because for all intents and purposes that’s exactly what it is. Only other force of nature that gives me the eldritch-horror style existential fear would be being caught on a ship in a major hurricane with 60ft+ seas. At night.", "What pattern? It’s also La Niña which I’m sure you were aware of. December tornadoes are less common than other months but not all that uncommon. It’s also not been really changing year over year.", "I got the tornado warning on my phone for this one, my town's tornado sirens were going off too. It didn't even come close but a couple times lightning lit up the sky orange. Never seen that before.", "he said praying was doing his best so no he’s not donating. I also am not but at least I can acknowledge that I’m not doing anything", "So are you saying there have been multiple unusual tornadoes? To my knowledge that isn’t true. Climate experts don’t know if warming will cause more tornadoes, so I’m going to conclude that you don’t know either.", "You sure about that? Long Island and New Jersey have some of the biggest whiners I've ever had to deal with. Their accents make it ten times worse.\n\nSource: grew up in these places.\n\nShit, they can't handle most stuff outside their bubbles of convenience. I know a guy that got back from Wyoming and couldn't wrap his head around all the places that close early. Wah wah wah. Even in state, it's griping about every slight inconvenience. Cry me a river.", "What are you even supposed to do at that point if you wanted to get shelter?", "I can remember 2 instances off the top of my head in the last decade (not including this one). They are uncommon for sure, but I wouldn't say rare.", "Do you understand that you said hoping god is with those who died is worse than doing nothing, and how silly that is", "\"Why do y'all call Bill 'The Extreme'?\n\"Because Billy IS the extreme!\"", "yeah because it disincentivizes people from doing something that actually helps when you can just pray instead", "Transformers and power lines", "That man has balls", "Holy shit, glad you're safe", "Ever heard of La Niña? And you’re talking a tornado that happened 10 years ago. Flooding is worse now? Can you prove that? What about how there are way more people now than there used to be. There could be other factors that are making you think flooding is worse now than it used to be. I’m not even saying global warming is not a factor. The original comment said that this tornado is definitely caused by climate change. Use basic reasoning and know the at correlation does not equal causation also. There can still be tornadoes in December even if we don’t have climate change.", "If you think a night tornado is the biggest fuck you, I imagine a night tornado in December.\n\n\nTornado season is during spring, not winter", "Not sure what argument we're having here. Are you looking for evidence of climate change or are you looking for evidence that these events are tied to it? \n\nBecause those are two different arguments that require different approaches. I'm not about to argue about orbital mechanics with someone who thinks the earth is flat, ya know? Not that I think you are a flat earther or even necessarily a climate change denier.", "What a horrendous event for all these folks that were in harm's way. Gods! They must've been terrified with knowing there was no place to go.", "THE FINGER OF GOD", "I’m not looking for evidence of climate change. The original comment said “this is absolutely the result of climate change”. And I’m just saying you can’t conclude that.", "I’m in the NE and experienced a 3-point something quake (which is NOTHING). I thought my furnace backfired because my entire house shook and I almost lost my balance. I don’t know how the fuck y’all are out there surfin dirt waves. \n\nAt least tornadoes give you some kind of warning? \n\nI’ll stick with blizzards and living where the air hurts my face.", "Especially at night", "Lol no it doesn’t", "I'm just talking about local references, I live in the area, and yes while I'm familiar with la niña and el niño, things have steadily been getting worse. Just because it can be explained by la niña, doesn't mean it wasn't exacerbated by global warming. Just stop.", "I live in the mountains and have never ever seen a tornado. Are they common in December in that region?", "Weren’t all not instructed to leave your homes? Isnt it like a game of Russian roulette to stay in your house, given how badly some of the houses got hammered? I’m assuming few would survive if the roof got ripped off and shit is flying in your face. \n\nSorry for the ignorance…. I have never lived in tornado country before!", "Yeah, I'll just stay here in Chicago where all we get is snow. We did actually have a tornado watch during the summer which was very surprising. This makes me nervous for my sister in the western suburbs though because it is possible over there.", "Serious props to you for leaving this comment up with an edit rather than immediately deleting it in shame lmao. Honestly. Respect", "Came across KY too, leveling Mayfield Ky. EF 4-5 reported.", "Your local references are meaningless. My local area has not had more tornadoes than usual. I guesss that means global warming isn’t real.", "I don’t think California earthquakes are that bad compared to Japanese earthquakes but I don’t want to jinx it.", "I've got relatives all over Arkansas, it's where I grew up. I currently live in Central IL. The storms in AR scare me more. Maybe I just remember it wrong, but I've not seen a storm cloud look black since I left. Seems like they were much more intense there.", "I live in Tulsa and when I woke up yesterday morning I knew there were going to be some tornadoes. It was like 74 degrees in the morning. Fucking weird for December", "Lmao New England out here like ahhhh we get the snow and the weather changes super fast. I love living in New England.", "Nobody is saying that it’s not. They are saying, what all scientists will tell you, correlation doesn’t equal causation.", "Die, poor. \n\nReally though if you can’t get underground or in a storm shelter/very sturdy building, stay as close to the center of the structure as possible and hope you don’t die.", "Go into an interior room with no glass and hope for the best.", "Thank you! I'm sick of seeing people like this on Reddit claiming that the other side is so full of hate when they post bullshit like that.", "Did you get so god damned hungry you could hide behind a straw?", "Tornados are always terrifying but nighttime tornados are beyond terrifying. You can see the tornado at all even with some lightning strikes, so fucking scary.", "It’s very easy to dismiss individual events and also ignore the larger picture looking for a specific statistic to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that each event is tied to climate volatility —extreme weather events have had increased occurrences and have been more powerful in the past few years than ever before in recorded history. \n\nWhat exactly are you looking for to begin to consider this is an actual issue? Why isn’t any of this enough for you when experts in their fields of weather and climate have been sounding the alarm for years and providing clear data behind their concerns?", "They are easy to verify from a variety of sources.", "Did you experience the nisqually quake, too? That was crazy.\n\n\nOne I remember though, I still chuckle about to this day. I just got home from school, went upstairs sat down on the floor and had to fart. I was around 12 or 13. I let it rip and immediately after the whole place starts shaking. The most comically scary moment I've ever had", "Does indeed suck. Sometimes I'm running around like Rambo and other times, I'm like \"fuck it\" and I just pass back out.", "And earthquakes.", "Most of them are there for reporting, other are there for research purpose. It is very easy to know where the Tornado is going since they usually only go in a straight line.", "Dumb question. Are truckers running away or just making time?", "It isn't. We're usually done with tornadoes by end of august. Occasionally some October naders happen. \n\nThe first December tornado in my personal memory banks. I'm sure they've happened, but this is extremely rare.", "[@ 3:02 is straight out of a horror film](https://youtu.be/Pqo73abwcGI?t=182).", "Hang me oh hang me", "Except there is no actual evidence that tornadoes are increasing….\n\nhttps://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/tornadoes-and-global-warming-there-connection/", "Has that ever happened before? One single land tornado traveling that far?", "Yeah, that was my comment, and I'm saying that I can't argue with you about whether or not a given event is evidence of climate change if you believe climate change is a hoax. So could you please clarify that?\n\n\"I’m not looking for evidence of climate change\" doesn't tell me you accept climate change as fact.", "Cape Girardeau is hardly the Bootheel, though. I’d say New Madrid is the starting point.", "His windshield wipers match the beat to billy jean.", "it’s december…", "“Oh man it’s so big……oh my gawddd”\n\nThat’s what she said hehe", "Sending your prayers is literally the least you can do.", "Wow imagine being those windshield wipers just like completely unaware but going back and forth like all those times.", "Dumbass", "There is evidence that tornado alley has been shifting from a pretty otherwise long time stagnant location. \n\nThe seasonality of tornadoes seems to be changing as well. I'm noticing quite a few more late season tornadic activity than normal. \n\nAnd then extreme gaps of no tornadic activity which in my area is unheard of.", "All a matter of perspective. I grew up in the Midwest and live in California now and would take tornados over earthquakes any day.", "All he is saying is you can’t say that this event was caused by climate change. Nobody is saying climate change doesn’t exist. \n\nThe NHC also says that even though the Atlantic hurricane seasons are becoming more active, there is no evidence it’s due to climate change. Things like El Niño and La Niña can explain most of it, as well as Earths tilt on its axis.", "It can be important for meteorologist and obviously safety concerns because they see what structures are being destroyed. And can also compare what the radar and scientific info looks like in real world. Most meteorologists and newscasters have guys that stormchase so they can go back and forth between the radar and on the ground info. \n\nAnd a lot of these tornadoes can occur in rural areas so police and emergency services can be a little sparse so more information is better as far as getting help where it's most needed.", "Maybe need to explain it in their language - it's punishment for all the hating on 'the gays' or being anti-abortion. (Isn't that the kind of nonsense bullshit they come up with?)", "I’m confused now. I said I’m not looking for evidence of climate change. Because I know there is evidence of it. I’m just saying a single tornado in December does not mean “climate change caused this tornado”", "The only thing that worked against tornados, back when I lived in Florida, was my 2nd ammendment rights. No way would one mess with you or your family of you brandished a weapon pointed at its heart.", "I cannot believe I've lived 33yrs without ever considering that Night Tornadoes exist. \n\nHow bizarre is that? Granted, I'm from the UK.. but still. \n\nA new fear.", "No one is saying Tornados of any size aren’t scary as fuck, of course they are. However for some reason you keep implying that earthquakes above a certain size are not, and lying about your experiences for some reason. \n\nYou did not at any time experience what a 7.0 or higher earthquake feels like while in a major city, and if you did you’d have a hell of a lot more respect for it.\n\nHere, watch some video of strong earthquakes in cities to see the impact, it is extremely scary to be around and in some buildings. \n\nhttps://youtu.be/NT_fVQ1LdQY", "You'll most likely never experience damage from one. I've lived here 30 years and I've never personally seen a tornado. They've come nearby, through corn fields and neighboring towns, but never been close enough to see it in person.", "Wow this is one of the most intense things I’ve ever seen.", "Tornados are so much scarier when illuminated only by lightning.", "This was not your average torando.", "No. Not at all", "And yet they probably still don't think climate change exists. \n\nSuch a scary sight. I'm coastal, so I have more earthquakes than anything, but at least there's no looming dread with them.", "Very unusual.", "December is definitely a bit unusual. Here in NC we start seeing nastier storms as early as mid-late February in to the Spring months. Nothing like this of course, but we have been getting tornadoes almost like clockwork around that time of year for the past few years it feels like.", "I'll direct you again to my comment above:\n\n>Not sure what argument we're having here. Are you looking for evidence of climate change or are you looking for evidence that these events are tied to it?\n\n>Because those are two different arguments that require different approaches. I'm not about to argue about orbital mechanics with someone who thinks the earth is flat, ya know? Not that I think you are a flat earther or even necessarily a climate change denier.\n\n\n\"I’m not looking for evidence of climate change\" and \"I know there is evidence of it\" are both strangely vague, things that could be said by either a climate change denier or a person who understands it as fact. \n\nI'm looking for a definite statement that you accept human caused climate change as fact before I discuss the significance of an event within that understanding. \n\nIf you don't, then I'm not going to spend a second wasting my time trying to discuss how an event fits into climate change with a climate change denier.", "Hmm, I must be built different. I have no instinctual fear when faced with tornado. I normally just laugh and flip it off and go back to whatever I was doing.", "Same. 3:30 in the morning in Chile one night I went from sound asleep to thinking I was gonna die. Earthquake registered 8.8. Now I have trouble staying asleep.", "If you're going to at least pretend to be a \"professional,\" you might consider giving observations more useful than \"wow.\"\n\nHow about the apparent size? What direction? What towns are in its path?\n\nYou know...useful shit, not gawker shit.", "Wtf do you want me to say? I literally just said “ I know there is evidence of climate change”. How is that not enough of a statement that means I believe climate change is real? Did you assume I’m seeing the evidence and considering it to be false?", "In 2015 my town was destroyed by a tornado. I woke up to my family screaming and rushing downstairs as it sounded like a freight train was blasting through my living room 10 feet above my head. I moved out of Illinois after that. Never again. Fuck tornados the sirens give me nightmares.", "One of my duties at work is tornado spotting out in the boonies. There's nothing quite like being all alone out in the middle of nowhere trying to find a tornado against the backdrop of pitch black and lightning at 3am.", "Thats when los Angeles splits off from the continental us and becomes its own nation state of criminals and hooligans.", "Moore, OK 2013. Tornado hit 2 elementary schools, one pretty much head on, Plaza Towers. 7 students died there. Initial reports said they were in a low area, trapped by debris, and drowned. After investigation, true reports came out that they were sheltering up against a wall as trained, and the cinder block wall fell on top of them and they died of trauma and suffocation. The school wasn't built with protective areas outside of the traditional cover your head with a book hallways.\n\nIn situations like this recent tornado, evacuation and shelter don't look like they would have mattered too much. Those buildings from last night were demolished.", "Maybe its because they dont know yet either, and saying that they for sure didnt and are therefore responsible is really fucking stupid?", "\n\n\n>\"I’m not looking for evidence of climate change\" and \"I know there is evidence of it\" are both strangely vague, things that could be said by either a climate change denier or a person who understands it as fact.\n\n>I'm looking for a definite statement that you accept human caused climate change as fact before I discuss the significance of an event within that understanding.", "it's almost like the climate is changing\n\nedit: I was being snarky to the world, not the direct reply-ee", "The way it illuminates makes it look like a tornado-demogorgon", "50 is the number", "My restaurant closes at 10 and they sent us home an hour early pretty much because everyone wanted to leave and there was barely any business. Apparently the candle factory is 24/7", "Years ago a giant tornado hit Lady Lake, FL without warning at about 3 am, when everybody was asleep. It was a rural area with a lot of mobile homes, and it tore them up.\n\nCan you imagine waking up at 3 am with your home just coming apart all around you? No time to help family or pets, you can only fight for your own life. It must have felt like the world was literally coming to an end.", "I remember riding out the Northridge earthquake well. Seconds felt like minutes.", "Yeah but if a relatively small tornado can go through the mountains uprooting massive trees it goes to show how unimaginably strong the big ones are.", "How's that there climate change workin out for ya?\n\nHahah, we're so fucked.", "This was bad . My pray it with everyone.", "This map will give you an idea how far some tornadoes have gone in the past. \n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/031EYwQ.png\n\nMulti-state tornadoes happen. FL had one cut all the way across the middle of the entire state as well.", "Yeah, I know. Sometimes its just nicer to have a little back and forth with someone, maybe ask some additional question, get a conversation going. But thanks for that link, I'll read it and if I have more questions I'll try to google.\n\nBtw, I didnt mean anything bad with my previous comment, just found it funny that the other guy asked \"what is this exactly\" and you gave a very short and general answer :D", "I remember the weird roar of that earthquake, it’s actually what woke me up. The sound is terrifying. Recently moved far away from Utah, but god speed to the Wasatch front whenever “the big one” hits.", "I took a geology class at the U and you can see the fault line across the front. It’s pretty wild.", "I went to uni at SIUC. Had a buddy who lived in a pretty remote house in a town south of campus called Makanda. The house he was in was down this winding gravel road, like 5 minutes between houses cruising along at maybe 20mph, just to the west of Giant City state park, at the top of a ridge overlooking a valley and the rest of the park. A tornado had split right between him and the neighbors and few minutes up the road. We stood at the top of this ridge and saw a narrow, maybe 20 or 30 foot wide, straight line path wiped straight through the valley. Wildest thing ever, exactly as you describe: like God himself wiped his finger across the planet, trees and everything were simply leveled with an almost clean edge and both sides. Nobody injured in that one.", "Thank you. I don’t know if I did something wrong but nobody understands what I’m saying lol", "The tornados friction actually melts the steal beams holding the warehouses up.", "My coworkers and I were talking last night about what if a Joplin sized tornado hit St Louis. The deaths would be in the 9/11 range.", "I don't have the time or energy to do this right now, so I'm just going to drop it. I have a family to support and doing someone else's research doesn't feed my kids. \n\n\nEnjoy the remainder of your days.", "Pretty sure that's exactly how this works. [Source](https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-how-climate-change-affects-extreme-weather-around-the-world). Extreme weather patterns are the result of climate change, you can't run a simulation to see if this tornado would happen without climate change, our weather patterns are already directly effected by climate change. An 80 degree day in December after winter temps is without a doubt related to climate change. That's not to say it would be impossible without global warming, that's just to say in our current reality, with climate change, it is definitely related.", "is a good guy with… another… tornado?", "What were those huge lights shining on it towards the end?", "Same here", "Waiting on my grandmother to call and tell me to get the decoration boxes out of the fucking storm shelter.", "“Definitely caused by climate change” and “ may be related to climate change” are completely different things. I’m not sure how my argument is being twisted so many ways. I’m basically just saying that correlation does not equal causation.", "Damn the quad city storm (minor league hockey team) is gonna have to change their name!", "While I'm not disputing climate change, I'm not sure that winter tornadoes are a new thing. For instance, this graphic shows multiple F4's occurring in this area during Winter, going back to the 50's.\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/i2II0Rm.png\n\n[Source](https://stormhighway.com/st-louis-tornadoes-severe-storms.php)\n\nFor a more exhaustive list, you can look at these stats, and find many tornado outbreaks occurring during the Winter, going back decades.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_tornadoes_and_tornado_outbreaks#1980s", "So this anecdote is therefore reason to say “this tornado was definitely caused by global warming”? \n\nCorrelation does not equal causation.", "Terrible Tuesday vibes", "Yeah most homes near me have basements or storm cellars. Basically hang out in the basement away from windows and hope for the best.", "The weird thing is, historically, if you have a lot of unstable atmosphere (due to rising warm air from the gulf combined with arctic cold air) in the winter, and a lot of severe weather, the back half of that winter will normally be a hell of a lot more wintery. I think states like GA will see snow in Jan or feb", "The amount of lightning alone is insane.", "Terrifying.", "I was on the phone with my mom yesterday morning about how it randomly decided to be 80 degrees again in December, and how I was worried we were in for another storm like last year (Texas). Every evening I go out on my balcony and it feels like a cool breeze rushes up from the south and the gulf. I said it was going to take all the humidity the heat produced and smash it up north. This morning I wake up and it's chilly outside again and there's news of a tornado that happened like 12 hours after that conversation.", "Here were 22 in the area on the first day of December of 2018:\n\nhttps://www.ksdk.com/article/weather/wild-start-to-december-dozens-of-tornadoes-reported-in-illinois-missouri/63-619814764\n\nMajor outbreak on New Year's Eve, 2010:\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_New_Year%27s_Eve_tornado_outbreak\n\nThese were just a few quick searches I did on the area. Not saying they aren't rare, just pointing out that it isn't like a 50 year event or anything.", "Yeah, but it spawned Rush Limbaugh, so...", "Nocturnadoes", "And here i thought viruses were..you know with the pandemic and all", "Its so scary because you can only see it when the lightning flashes", "You're really out here blaming once-in-a-century tornadoes on corporations lmfao you're in a cult", "Midwesterners: Stay away coastal people. We don't like you and don't have a good reason for it.\n\nAlso midwesterners: I am mad that you have a name for how you don't come here.", "The thing is, when there's a tornado outbreak in the front of winter, there's usually a lot of snow/wintery shit in the back half. It's happened a lot in history.", "Usually it's polite to wait until after the funerals", "Here is something that will haunt just about anyone. Dude just records a tornado coming right towards him. His wife went to the basement and the house collapsed on top of her, he survived due to being on the top floor. \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szwd-0tatdo&t=3s", "And apparently they are mad about it? I really don't get why they get butthurt by that term.", "I recall driving one day, real bad storm behind me, actively spawning tornados. I pulled into a gas station, realized the place was packed with people apparently pre-sheltering against the bad storm. I paid for my gas and went to leave, and the clerk was like 'you know theres a real bad storm with tornados coming?' I replied 'Its traveling west at 45mph, I'm traveling west at 65mph'. 4-5 other cars left with me traveling west.", "I live in Michigan and we had a 4.6 earthquake back in 2015 and it was fucking scary as hell, having never experienced a quake before. I can't fathom experiencing anything more powerful or how terrifying it would be.", "It probably was. I believe it was around 2008 or so. It's probably the only earthquake that most Illinoisans have ever felt in the state.", "I mean in a roundabout way he's not wrong, once-in-a-century events like these are becoming more common due to climate change & that is mostly caused by corporations", "Maybe a nuke would work. Someone once said it would work on hurricanes, same thing.", "Uhhhh, did you see the footage from this? An entire town was destroyed. Homes wiped off the map. You don't \"manage\" that. A blizzard is manageable, you just move the snow.", "When I was a kid I was terrified when thunderstorms occurred during the night because I was certain a tornado was going to \"attack\" us. (This was before we had warning sirens.) Anyway, my Mom and Dad kept reassuring me that tornadoes never form during the night, just to get me to go to sleep.", ">Emergency alerts spamming my phone every few minutes for like an hour straight.\n\nI don't think I'd call warning people of a massive tornado spamming lol\n\nGlad you're all right though!", "Although they're terrifying, I've always wanted to see one.", "Exactly what I was thinking of!", "This was my exact thought watching this video", "Here's a good tip : if you are watching a tornado and it looks like it's not moving, that means it's coming toward you.", "Slow down, we're still working on not making them worse.", "> A majority of the population in California doesn't live in high fire severity areas\n\nIts getting bad though. The fires in Santa Barbara and Ventura are getting closer every year.", "Hurricane season is also lengthening in its period of time for activity. The strength of hurricanes has also increased over time as well causing the ginormous financial impacts to the USA and States in the “hurricane corner”.", "I don’t think you pay attention to the right sources. NatGeo is an entertainment science publication. They’re not exactly credible since Disney purchased nearly three-quarters of it.", "Terrifying.", "Upvoted because, yes, google is a thing, but lots of people clearly had the same question. Thanks for asking it for me.", "Tornado Alley exists because of the warm, moist air from the Gulf of Mexico combining with the cool air of the Rockies. The Jet Stream stirs that drink. That's why the US has 75% of all tornadoes worldwide. In the fall and winter, the air from any direction should not be warm enough for supercells to develop.\n\nThis is a direct result of warming ocean waters. Warm ocean water fuels tornadoes in the US and hurricanes all over the world. The warmer the water, the more powerful and frequent these hazards develop.", "It's up to 70 now and still climbing.", "Sure, if you're mocking the dead. I'm mocking the heartless.", "Down in Nashville things got crazy but not THAT crazy. Heartbroken for our neighbors in Kentucky.", "n'nado", "I mean I googled “does climate change cause worse tornadoes”. There are plenty of other sources. I’m done doing this.", "“I’m just gonna get a little bit of cancer, Stan. Tell mom it’s okay”", "[Here's](https://youtu.be/TmtCk37oe_g) one from one of the 2019 EF3 and 4 tornadoes in Dayton, Ohio that is not as visually stunning as the OP video, but shows some dude's dash cam while he is casually driving down the highway and a bolt of lightning illuminates a tornado in front of him scaring the shit out of him at about 0:25.", "Rain-wrapped night ‘nado", "I can’t find any actual source that says tornadoes are increasing or more intense because of global warming. They all say we don’t know. That’s all I’m saying.", "OK.... Imagine it's the middle of the night... Tornado forms, then the siren sounds. Your plan of evacuating is the thing to do, and everyone in town does it. You get a traffic jam, and you're all now just sitting ducks for the tornado. \n \nGo to the basement or an inside room without windows on the lowest floor (bathroom, closet, center hallway). If possible, avoid sheltering in a room with windows. For added protection get under something sturdy (a heavy table or workbench). Cover your body with a blanket, sleeping bag or mattress. \nAlso pray tornado goes in opposite direction.", "Not every Wednesday, every first Wednesday of the month.", "Do these kinds of work places not have bunkers to hide in?", "What parts of the US?", "Nighttime tornadoes are my worst fear", "Kansas", "The worst is when they really are hidden. Sometimes they can get wrapped in thick clouds and sheets of rain making them practically invisible unless they hit power lines. I think this is more common in the southeast than the plains but I could be wrong.", "I lived in Japan and one time I was on the 9th floor of a building. The entire building was shaking but also swaying. That was the first and only time I ever hid under the table because I was afraid of pictures and lights falling. I seriously thought the building was going to collapse.", "I live nearby and December tornadoes aren’t exactly rare, but they aren’t common.", "I guess global warming still isn't real. I guess this is just an act of God since he loves those states so much.", "[Homeowner Interview](https://youtu.be/HdSVyu2PX-U)\n\nLady says she was sucked/thrown out of her house. Her mom I think it was ended up under their car in the driveway. The emergency crews had to pull her out from underneath.\n\nLady seems like a very grounded woman as well. She was injured her leg all cut up, interviewer asked why she didn't seek help. She said that she wanted people in critical condition like her mom to get help first. She didn't want to tie up rescuers and emts just for her leg. Stand up lady right there.", "Can concur. I woke up when it happened and thought it was a train going by. When I learned it was an earthquake the next day, I remembered that there weren't any train tracks even close to my house.", "Nah, most houses have basements where people retreat to when the sirens go off. Apartment buildings are strong enough that retreating to the central parts will be safe enough.", "I've never experienced a tsunami. Why? Because I always keep my Glock 22 strapped to my hip. You're welcome Ohio", "It is typical here, kinda sad, but what can you do. Let the people with lack of common sense have imaginary internet points.", "hell yeah!", "Storm chasers have nerves of steel. They are also nuts....", "It was on the ground for 230 miles, it blows my mind. That thing traveled far enough to cross my state from corner to corner.", "Here's the path it took in KY \n\nhttps://www.wlwt.com/amp/article/tornado-tore-through-200-miles-of-kentucky-heres-its-path/38491318", "In Missouri when the sirens go off, you go outside to watch. Ha.", "Climate Change is really displaying it’s feathers this year.", "God puts on a slayer album and destroys.", "Don’t worry, the Arch protects us.", "Storm chasers are crazy.", "Yeah Kentucky got hit hard too sounded like a fucking freight train.", "I once had a job interview in western MA. I quickly understood why there was an opiate addiction problem there.", "only thought was halfway low laundry room.", "No worries.\n\nI dont understand people who say thing like \"google is a thing you know.\" Like, whats the point of having internet discussion forums then? I guess we need to shut down all the askhistory etc subs because they can just google stuff.\n\nOf course I get it that there is information available out there. But how should I know I'm reading the correct thing? If one cant be bothered to answer, they shouldnt comment anything and let someone else hopefully do it, not be snarky and send a link to let me google that for you or whatever.\n\nRant over.", "Tornados unlike some earthquakes tend to be pretty quick. It shows up and it passes over you in seconds. That's all it needs though. Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFrgSVoJi1U", "Shut up. A tornado is not political.", "Yea, fellow midwesterner that moved to the west coast. I've experienced both, and earthquakes are definitely scarier for me. Tornadoes are like a slow burning psychological thriller, but an earthquake is like an action packed short story. I'd much prefer a little bit of fear over hours to the 30s panic that comes from being woken up in the middle of the night by what feels like a serial killer having a seizure under your bed.", "Yeah not proud of the Limbaughs.", "And that fear is multiplied when stuck in any building above ground level. For majority of my life I lived on ground level, but my first earthquake in a 2nd floor apartment scared me like no other.", "As a resident of tornado alley, nighttime tornados are one of the few things in this world that frighten me.", "Rare but not that rare.\n\nhttps://www.ustornadoes.com/tag/december-tornadoes/", "Yeah I repair fork lifts there, crazy stuff, that place was basically brand new", "At least meteorologists can now tell us where tornadoes are likely to form during a big storm. This past summer when the Northeast had several tornadoes from the remnants of a hurricane, our local news was able to point out a surprisingly small area where tornadoes could form and every one that did was in one of those areas. Anyone watching the TV would have had ample time to take shelter. I know that's not always the case, but we have so much better forecasting than we did even ten years ago.", "Neither is climate change.", "One of the big reasons why I don't want to live in middle of USA", "A) it's still technically fall. B) we get a lot of them in the fall because we are in an area where the jet stream wanders north and south and mixes lots of warm gulf air with the cold arctic air there are more in the spring but fall is also common.", "It was pretty wild last night to say the least. Not in the boothill, but it did pass over us on the way and it was crazy. Looked like day time for us with all the lightning", "That was my thought too. So similar with the rain and the lighting, and the dummy-thick, sky-scraper tall, quasi-supernatural force.", "He’s a corporate kissbutt man!", "This is all absolutely true, I live in Florida, and hurricanes suck, the warnings really are unfortunately useless, especially when the situation can change fairly quickly. I have fortunately never experienced anything the likes of Ida, and Katrina, and definitely do not wish that on anyone. I've only ever experienced smaller tornadoes so can't really comment on them, but the one night time one I experienced was truly terrifying, but I would probably prefer that over a hurricane anyday.", "But the worst part is you're in Missouri.", "Neither is climate change, dumb fuck.", "Man I lived close to the fault line that the big ass earthquake on Easter in 2010 and man that shit was scary I still remember being on edge the rest of the day and night and my sister was so shaken up that the slightest movement at night made her jump up outta bed and into my moms arms", "My first year of school we had a historic snowfall, and like a solid 10+ days of snow days scattered throughout December and January. I think it was 127 inches or something that winter? Never had that glory ever again, but I thought that was normal and half expected it to happen again T_T", "Worst mutant power ever.", "tornados did not exist before cow farts!", "night flatulence is bad", "imagine! That shock is what made me post without thinking :D The sheer fear, luckily in England all we get is some strong gusts and a lot of rain.", "Glad i can entertain, stay safe", "Cheers :)", "Clearly this was God's retribution for voting for Trump and conservative politicians. Where are all the alleged preachers who point this out?", "Why were there people in the candle factory and Amazon warehouse? Shouldn’t they have shut down for a few hours when the massive storm was approaching. Correct me if I’m wrong but the warehouses are basically large sheds and not shutting down put employees in danger.", "I've said the same thing before. Sometimes it's just nice to actually discuss something rather than just look it up.", "I think tornadoes are just easier to be scared of \n\nTornadoes can happen anywhere but earthquakes are specific to areas.", "OP updated it was not this, but 2014 had a big one in South Napa. i wasn’t there for the quake but flew in a couple days later for a wedding which had to be completed changed as the hotel and wedding venue were condemned", "People that stormchase at night are insane", "Thank you! Duh, I forgot that houses have basements. I saw some footage of the Amazon warehouse and the houses that got torn to the concrete. I didn’t see any basements in those buildings, unless they are under the concrete?", "really? wow that's actually kind of funny. tbh I just kind of assumed it was tigerb king once the Netflix thing aired because he mentioned his tigers getting taken by a tornado once or something like that. \n\nthanks for the updated info though!", "You're in the same cult.", "but then you get some plywood or debris thrown at your head by the weather demon.", "I’m in NW Arkansas and I’ve always heard the Ozark mountains offer us some kind of protection. All the tornados seem to happen all around us but rarely do we catch any serious ones here. Not sure if that’s just one of those rumors/myths, but whatever it is… keep it up.", "2014 napa?", "Earth can fit inside of that tornado/hurricane", "#DEBRIS!?!?\n\nEnglish looks dumb", "There was another Bill... an evil Bill. And, I... killed him.\"", "Hah, wow, that’s awesome. I had something similar happen. I live in Indiana, and I had just took a big puff of my hemp CBD vape. I heard a huge bang and my house was shaking. Thought it was a tornado, but it was just the police blowing my door off. They took my vape and tested it. .000000000000000001 gallons of THC-D9. They brought in the police chopper and airlifted me directly to the big house.", "Huh, that's possibly the most terrifying thing in existence. \n\nNo tornado, all is fine......lightening strike....GIANT TORNADO AND IT'S LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU. \n\nI always thought they'd appear during the daytime.", "Imagine how the Native Americans must have felt before concrete and basements, fuuuuuuuuuuuck.", "As a Texan who grew up in tornado country, agreed, but that went out the window when we got evacuated for our first wildfire.", "I grew up in what's colloquially called Dixie Alley, which covers the area hit in this outbreak. It's a part of the Southeast that, while it might not get as many tornadoes as Tornado Alley in the Midwest, tends to have deadlier outcomes when they do hit. One major reason is that they tend to hit at night. Another is that they're more likely to get rain wrapped, which makes them almost invisible.\n\nI do not miss living there.", "Verified and countersigned.\n\nDid not move to the Missouri bootheel unless you are a garbage person looking for company.", "Especially if you have someone who is an expert, its so much easier and faster to learn things by asking specific questions. Wikipedia is fine and all but its possible that you have some knowledge on the thing so reading a full wiki page just to answer few questions is a bit of a waste of time.", "I promise, there are those of us with normally formed frontal lobes that understand. It's reddit...if they can't soap box and make you feel bad, their day is not complete.", "It’s pretty normal for the tornado sirens to go off once a year. Usually around tornado season.", "\"BILL'S the most out of control son of a bitch in the game!\"", "What do you mean?", "Good thing the pandemic is over in Missouri, that way they can focus their resources on rebuilding after this calamity.", "Looks like the stranger things monster", "But tornado siren?", "It doesn't mean it does, either. Your examples are poor, not backed by anything except your anecdotes. You just stop.", "Is climate change still a liberal msm antifa blm pizzagate conspiracy guys? Asking for a friend", "Global warming is causing our average temperatures to be warmer for longer which is why we’re starting to see tornadoes and hurricanes “out of season” and those seasons are starting to overlap.", "Yeah clearly this is proud climate change does t exist. Let’s keep polluting o", "Neither Missouri nor Kentucky should be eligible for Federal assistance due to their bootstraps.", "It’s not the same exact tornado. It was the same storm front but produced multiple tornadoes. The one thag hit mayfield originated in Arkansas and then moved east. Then in St. Louis the storm produced another tornado that hit the Amazon facility.", "Earth is op pls nerf It ffs god", "I was reading some news story about this \"rare\" tornado, and I'm like yeah, not for long.", "[Just going to share this source,](https://www.carbonbrief.org/tornadoes-and-climate-change-what-does-the-science-say-2?s=09) also from Carbon Brief, stating the evidence for tornados in particular is a bit more ambiguous than other weather events.", "Won't be for long sadly :(", "Welcome to global warming, where past precedent no longer matters as global weather patterns are shifting due to sweeping changes in air currents.", "The dems weather machines obviously", "Honestly not as rare as you would think. Lived in Arkansas all my life and we've had Jan/Dec tornado outbreaks as long as I can remember\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_outbreak_of_January_21%E2%80%9323,_1999\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornadoes_of_2002#December_17%E2%80%9319\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_outbreak_of_December_2000\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2008_tornado_outbreak", "Is there any actual reason that they tend to happen more often at night? Or is it just those that we all remember as freaking us out?", "Thank you for the informative post. Got to love the down votes when facts are presented. Not one statement saying that climate change isn't one part of the puzzle, but yet every goob on here has to cry out about climate deniers. \nNever change, reddit.", "Yeah, I lived in Ridgcrest for the 2019 6.4 and subsequent 7.3 quakes on July 4 and 5. All the aftershocks in the middle of the night were the worst. 7.3 was wild, we were outside and cars were bouncing around like crazy, and it took just about everything I had to stay standing.\n\nIt's crazy how much we take the ground not moving for granted.", "Sure Trump with his Space Force will overcome! 😳😳😳\n\nThis is Brutal and I feel for the ordinary people who have to start again with people they've lost!", "Has there been a blizzard tornado?", "There is no “debate” to be had. Climate change is now producing catastrophic weather. Trying to deny this, as you are, is willful ignorance. But we are past the point of no return, due to decades of indifference and passing the buck by those who held the power to do anything to change our trajectory. So, if denial is the only way you know how to cope have at it I guess. Reality is harsh, I get it. Delusion is comforting.", "46 checking in!", "polluting? You think it's a dirt tornado? Please elaborate!", "Not sure the warehouse has a basement. I would expect them to have some sort of reinforced storm shelter.", "No! We don’t negotiate with bots", "I think you mean both suck", "When the lightning flashed and I saw the outline my brain screamed \"nnnnnnnNNNOPE!\"", "My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!", "Go back to your psycho therapy", "Holy crap, that warehouse was absolutely thrashed. That’s awful, those poor people…", "I used to watch this movie all of the time Bc I had the biggest crush on Devon Sawa. Also, it made me scared shitless of tornadoes.", "i think it’s also amazing how far they can be felt and cause damage. In 2018 I was 225 miles from the epicenter of a 7.1 earthquake, and it’s hard to describe the mix of confusion and terror I felt. I’m sure it didn’t help I was 20-something floors up in Mexico City… I had just gotten there, checked in and was alone in my hotel room. I was certain I was having a stroke. I stumbled over to the window where I could see the pool and saw people running around and the pool was SLOSHING…even though I don’t think I registered what was happening but I was terrified.", "I live in Arkansas and I believe that tornado came from here. We had 8 happen in the state last night and I know one went from here to Missouri and then I think into Kentucky", "Spent a month volunteering cleanup there shortly after that event... So much raw damage and death.", "You are obviously ignorant as you completely disregarded me saying I believe in climate change. Not giving you the time of day. “Not combating it at all”. And yes it is still very much so a debate. With the way some people deny it there is still unfortunately debates to be had. Have to convince them somehow. Hence what a debate means.", "They didn't say anything about political figures. Only scientists and more scientists. If you think science and climate change are political topics you're definitely wrong.", "Straight line winds are more terrifying to me for some reason.\n\nWhen I was a kid way up the hill from our neighborhood the highway went by this lady who owned a lot of land that was cattle pasture down the hill. She was older and her husband had died so it was just her alone in a trailer on what used to be this big ranch property. Well one night a storm came through, little thin but nasty one like this one that hit last night. Next morning they found her trailer smashed into the trees a good 600 feet from its foundation. \n\nA straight line wind had gained steam across that big pasture then slammed into the trees and tore probably 40 big oak and walnut trees up and her trailer and spun them through the air like nothing and it all landed in this great heap on the other side.\n\nIt's absolutely wild to imagine literally no warning and BOOM your entire home is spinning at a hundred miles and hour through the air and you're smashed to death by flying trees. Just insane. At least you can hear the fucking tornadoes.", "Holy shit…\n\nDevastation of that magnitude plus it being at night. Surely the death toll is going to be in the hundreds.\n\nThat has to be some of the worst aftermath I’ve seen. So sad.", "Are you talking about the one back in 2019 near Everett? \n\n[https://myeverettnews.com/2019/07/12/earthquake-shakes-everett-awake/](https://myeverettnews.com/2019/07/12/earthquake-shakes-everett-awake/)\n\n \nI feel like you are over blowing it. That was my first earthquake too.... i just woke up... and was like oh shit... and then fell back asleep. It barely made the news.", "Was just talking about this today. You can have instant devastation with very very little warning and little chance to escape. Or you can have days of anxiety and that awful should we evacuate or no -but absolutely have the ability to get safe. Neither one is great, but I choose hurricanes because I have more choice.", "It also dips into profits if the warehouse is not operational for hours / a day. Think of the shareholders.", "Why do they put the date in the title when it's so recent? Seems dramatic.", "Definitely a good investment. They keep getting more aggressive.", "I mean they pretty much do basically", "AKA MO's skin tag or ball sack", "The government has sirens, and text alerts.\n\nUnless your business has a basement or something like that you go to an interior room in the house with no windows, cover yourself, and hope for the best. Do tornado shelter's exist at businesses? I am sure some have them. I have never seen one that was specifically there for that reason.\n\nUsually you end up in a bathroom.", "Please do not ever evacuate in a tornado. Get to the lowest inner room of your house and pray you don't get hit.", "Hows the lyme disease ticks? I have always wanted to go backpacking in the NE, but fuck getting lyme disease.", "I’ve been through multiple hurricanes and tropical storms. Can confirm, Hurricane Ike and Harvey were terrible. It was living at high adrenaline for days.", "Air quality is going in the gutter too. Coupling with the wildfires, much of South Central CA deals with the dust from the Salton Sea", "The talking point of weather being unrelated to climate change is a big part of the propaganda currently being spouted by climate change deniers and also those who believe it is happening but don’t think it is a big deal, or even see it as an opportunity to somehow make money from the coming crises. I do sincerely apologize if you are not amongst any of those cohorts but do be aware that the “weather isn’t climate change” argument will be taken as a dog-whistle by some.\n\nEdit:autocorrect typo", "It’s the same in East Texas. They have some of the most beautiful lakes and forests in the country. And then you drive by multiple houses with confederate and Nazi flags hanging outside…", "Nature is absolutely terrifying sometimes.\n\nAs a none American and in a place where houses are built with bricks and mortar and not wood, would a tornado like this still just completely fuck up everything like some of the pictures of the aftermath I've been seeing?", "That’s lightning. You get lightning like that from just normal thunderstorms all the time in the summer.", "Not sure I'd say very easily. Sure if you're lucky enough to have a good house or at work somewhere with a safe room. But if you don't have easy and quick access to a safe room, not much gonna help if the building you are in gets flattened.", "Gotta save those empty Gatorade bottles in case of an emergency.", "PA/NJ? I drive by neighborhoods in PA that are *still* devastated from that storm in September. Tarps on roofs, trees with no branches, destroyed possessions out by the curb, condemned homes… it’s really crazy what it did to a thin strip of properties with almost no damage on either side.\n\nIt also came super close to a diner I like to go to in NJ on my way back from the beach.", "I've been in both. Watching a tornado go across my front yard in Missouri when I was a teenager was an unmatchable fear I thought I'd never have to experience again. Years later in Southern California, I watched my front yard ripple like the ocean from an earthquake and I had that same feeling. True fear. They are both quite apocalyptic.", "You can sleep through that and sometimes it's already gone on to warn of the coming storm already.", "It's the same cow!", "Watching Godzilla: \"If this happened, who would live in Tokyo?\"\n\nMeanwhile for the 10 millionth time...", "With an earthquake, unless it's a magnitude 12, you're safe if you go outside. With a tornado, you can only hope it doesn't notice you.", "Or Joplin. Wiped off the map.", "Your comment is irrelevant to my argument. You’re too dumb to even know what I’m saying. You’re the idiot.", "Don't jinx us please.", "For real, fucking nightmare fuel right there", "Probably a straight wind, those are just as dangerous and can reach up 100 m.p.h.", "That’s where they should’ve been", "I've been in tornado producing storms before. I specifically remember one night where there were lightning flashes going off almost every second, for a good 5 minutes. It was almost as if it were daytime, it was pretty insane.", "But it is a potentially mile wide monster that you can't stop, maybe outrun and can rip up anything in its path and throw things at you at insane speeds.", "Many reasons to stormchase, but chasing at night like this is typically only for year-round YouTube channel chasers and professional spotters/reporters. \n\nI stormchase as a hobby a few weekends a year in the spring mostly for the intensity/photography/travel experience of it all. But im not trying to get close/intercept them so keep my distance, and im always ready to step in and help provide emergency support if needed and do some amateur spotting through radarscope to help out.", "That's right, my bad.", "But you don't get causation without correlation either.", "chode-nado", "Do they normally travel that far??????", "No one said it was. You’re the one making it political", "Strong Cloverfield vibes.", "Hey, I just post what Soros pays me to post", "climate change in a nutshell", "That is the most terrifyingly beautiful footage I've ever seen.", "Fartquake! Better than Shartquake, I guess.", "Was outside for my birthday party but came back home fight before it hit us. Amazon warehouse collapse next to me, rest easy to allow the workers who died", "It just doesn't seem like a place you should have a city. Like usually people have built cities around bodies of water or in valleys in a safe location protected, but yall are literally being torn apart every year. WTF MOVE", "Dude was driving down the road and I was like \"YO this is terrible footage\" the the lightning strikes and lights the WHOLE TORNADO and I'm thinking ...well...my goodness I'm wrong", "Then it rips the roof off your house with a roar, and the next day you find your car in your neighbor's tree and your child in the next county alive and unharmed.", "This reminds me of a movie I saw in VHS called Twister, I’ve seen that movie so many times", "When Hurricane Katrina moved inland across Mississippi as a category 1 hurricane, it was the equivalent of a EF1 tornado for the whole state.", "This same tornado ran through my county in Arkansas. My work place has tornado shelters and severe weather alerts. My town also has tornado sirens whenever there is a warning.", "Yeah, we give a lot of shit to older civilizations for believing in gods, but if I lived in the year 800 and saw something like this? Without the knowledge I have today?\n\nMotherfucker, I would assume that the God of Wind and 'Fuck you' was displeased with my ass.", "I went on a trip once and was driving at night in a pretty nasty storm. As it really started getting ugly I figured I should switch over to the radio and get the weather update. When I did the radio was in the middle of announcing a tornado warning for the county I was driving through. I didn’t really know what I could do other than keep plowing on and hope it was a lucky day for me. On the way home it was evident that the tornado had crossed the highway I had been driving down. There was a swath of trees about 50 yards wide all snapped in half and the median was still strewn with debris several days later. I’ll never know how far behind me it was but it was a really wild experience knowing that we had nearly crossed paths", "When you nod your head yes, but you wanna say no", "Yep pretty much. More specifically, wind velocity radars - which more or less allow you to pinpoint the exact location of the tornado.", "Are tornadoes normal in that area this time of year?", "Severe tornadoes in December- that’s normal right, guys? Guys….?", "It’s because we’re a bunch of ignorant fucking heathens in this damn cornfield", "When your shredded to mist by debris in 3 ms, I doubt if it hurts too bad", "I fucking love this movie", "A simple google search that would’ve taken 22 seconds always beat anecdotal", "Was on a road trip from NM to IL a while back and ended up driving through a storm with five tornadoes in the area. Trying to drive fast to get through the storm while trying not to kill us was real fun.", "peligroso pero buena vista", "Was this the same one that ripped through the middle of Illinois too? Or the same storm? Town over from me had a few buildings destroyed and a couple fatalities.", "The big ones aren’t funnels, their walls", "i live in Illinois but right next to stl. my town got hit by a tornado last night also. so far we have 2 dead and a bunch of people missing.", "Just to give my 2 cents along with GOOCH_BRUISER, when you get 10+ tornado events per year, especially in the spring/summer, 2 days that occurred mid winter over the course of a decade don’t stand out.\n\nNot trying to say you don’t have a point, just that over a decade those 2 days might not stand out much unless you were directly affected.", "No. Fall was really not even on the radar until global weirding", "yeah i think this is the first time we have actually had a tornado. in edwardsville its always just warnings but i dont think ive ever actually known of a tornado to hit here.", "Possibly, I’m not entirely good with dates. If this is the one, it shook my building. I’m on the top floor of the apartment so to me, it was an experience I would not like to repeat.", "Hurricanes are magnitudes bigger but you have days or sometimes weeks to prepare in advance, tornadoes just... happen.", "Joplin was so bad. We weren't living there anymore, but still have lots of family and friends there. Watching that footage while trying to find out if everyone was OK was traumatic even from a distance. Our first visit back was pretty emotional seeing the destruction. Lots of people are going to carry what happened last night for a long time.", "\nSimple concrete shelter either below or adjacent to the basement with a double egress it’s super cheap and easy. It just must be thought of an institute at the bill. Otherwise it’s ridiculously expensive and you know how people in the Midwest hour, they’re cheap bastards", "No one is talking about how we had a tornado in December", "No. Tons of different shelters will save you. You just have to be in it", "Yes! So 2019 is the correct year. I’m going to edit my comment. My kid was sleeping in the living room and was freaked out a bit.", "As a brit where the only wild weather we really take note of is when our bins gets tipped over. \n\nDo tornadoes not happen at night often?", "I was thinking the weeping angels from Doctor Who.", "That son of a bitch. I haven’t got my second quarter check yet!!!", "Who does what pretty much basically?", "I live in the same area. This was the first time in my life a tornado actually came by after we got a warning for me.", "They’re probably GOP hillbillies, wrath of God kind of thing", "It’s the Extreme!!!", "It’s also the most they can do as well, unless they invest a bringer back to life gun.", "Hell no it was the prostitutes and homosexuals……🤣", "Nope, I was still living in Georgia when it happened. But I’ve spoken with a lot of people about it and it again makes me go ‘why do people live here?!’ Hahahaha", "What's crazy is I remember them talking in the news for the past two days about this happening. Yet, they still had people at work in factories and warehouses. I'm in tx and heard about the potential for them to have terrible tornadoes\n\nSo why the fuck did the people on actual danger have to go to work during this?", "BOOM (thermo nuclear)", "I think the lord created the tornado that killed those people so yeah he’s there if he exists", "Some of my peeps are from Charleston. Lord help us", "After last night I would like to move forward with an investigation of the efficacy of the Arch Weather Deflection System. Who knows if its been getting its regular maintenance.", "I’m on the top floor of my apartments and I thought we were about to collapse. I will remember the fear I felt that night for the rest of my life.", "There will be a siren going if there's a tornado. It's very loud and hard to miss. Many places have some sort of designated shelter area. I worked in a mall in Joplin, MO, and when a small tornado was going through the area we all sheltered in a back interior hallway.", "Nobody’s gotten GMO corn down like Missouri. Little round up syrup mmmm mmmm mmmmmm\n\nI bet I could find some fresh 24D sprayed strawberries somewhere too, Sugar……..", "It’s the Gene mist", "Here in Arkansas it feels like we only get them at night. It’s always super frustrating, watching the forecast trying to figure out if you can go to bed or not.", "I vaguely remember the nisqually quake (I was like 6?). My mom shattered her foot on the washing machine trying to round us kids up. Good times.", "Well, since that’s all you got., 🤷‍♂️", "Nah it’s pretty legit. I live in NE Arkansas, every year the same 4 towns surrounding me get hit, but my town sits perfectly on the other side of Crowleys Ridge and we never get the damage everyone else does. \n\nI know it’s fucked up and I’d shit my self if it ever happened, but I really want to see a tornado up close and I summon them with all my spirit when one shows up, but they never do. \n\nMore importantly the New Madrid had a legit quake we all felt a few weeks ago. I’m excited but scared wondering if it’s our time soon.", "You should get out more", "Same here. Scary stuff.", "I live in the area. We had storms forcasted for the evening but no one knew how strong they would get until about a half hour before it hit us. It really spiked in strength.\n\nThat being said, most of these warehouses are pretty new construction in that area. From what I have seen Amazon had a shelter area but there's only so much you can do. If warehouses sent everyone home every time there was a storm it would be pretty inefficient. This was the first tornado we had in years.", "There was actually a small earthquake in southeast MO yesterday in addition to this monster of a tornado. [Just a 2.5](https://www.kfvs12.com/2021/12/10/small-earthquake-recorded-butler-co-mo/) but still.", "Two Nursing Homes as well", "I went to bed with a huge old barn and a grain bin on the west side, probably from the 20s. In the morning the grain bin was on the Esst side, all crumpled up like a popcan stepped on, the barn was unharmed…wuh?", "The ocean wins for scariest shit on Earth, but night tornados are a close second. Fuck that shit.", "A lot of things aren’t political", "Most structures in that part of the country don't have the kind of above ground shelters that can survive an EF-5. People mostly rely on basements.", "No generally you don't go outside, and you don't evacuate if you are trying to be safe. Tornados toss cars, fence posts, trees, and sheet metal. Going outside risks you being impaled, crushed, or some kind of amputation. They are also generally accompanied by bad storms that likewise do damage. Roads often become impassable for you but the tornado doesn't have to worry about roads. There is also the fact that tornados can travel really fast, and change direction.", "holy christ that thing has to be 5 miles wide.", "All the tornado had to do is comply /s", "And or malted for the next round of small town New England double IPA. Add enough hops, you can cover anything.", "But also not extremely rare either. What is rare is the size and distance that it traveled.", "I assume you know and were just being rhetorical but it occured in the middle of March.", "F4 or F5?", "There’s a pattern here that you’re actively choosing to neglect. This isn’t just “climate change bad”, this is another case in a long line of weird weather patterns this year that can be attributed to climate change. People around the country are experiencing unusually warm and dry Decembers. When it fluctuates between hot and cold so unusually, we get larger weather events. It’s not a simple disagreement anymore. Climate change is real, it’s producing large scale effects currently, and people should be able to identify those occurrences and discuss their impact and course of action. We no longer have room for people not looking at the evidence.", "But also the immediate damage to what it does damage can be much worse for a tornado. Hurricanes don't typically strip bark or level buildings.", "That’s nonsense bro you haven’t been there. The entire southern 100 miles from the Mexican border and the ocean halfway to Las Vegas is now metro. There have been terrible fires inside the Los Angeles metro area forcing thousands upon thousands out of their homes my uncle and aunt who lives up the hill right beside the suburb of Upland, going towards Lake arrowhead Mount Baldy. Lost two homes in 12 years. It’s a miracle they lift. Because you can’t drive down that hill faster than the fire is coming up. You have no idea the scale of SoCal", "How much is a real estate industry Association paying you to do that nonsense?", "Most of our tornados are night tornados unfortunately. Some are in the day but between like 9pm and 2am is the time I always remember going to the basement or hearing sirens.", "Because the takeaway should be \"these events are going to get worse and more frequent as time goes on\", saying this could have nothing to do with it is like saying lung cancer could have nothing to do with cigs. True in a pedantic kinda way. But my B if I came off as aggressive, not my intention!", "Only when it’s turned on in time!", "Scary as fuck, we only get blizzards and minor flooding where I live as far as natural disasters go and I cannot imagine wanting to ever stay in a place with those kinds of worries.", "That's basically a category 5 hurricane except it shows up unannounced with no time to prepare. Tornadoes are scary as fuck", "Do large tornadoes often happen in December? I thought they were a late summer thing", "Hey, it probably looks better that way even with a good budget.", "Ouuuuch. I was in band class in middle school. We heard a faint rumble, class fell silent and my buddy just says, \"I think there's going to be an earthquake\". As soon as he finished his sentence, the floor started rolling like waves on the ocean.\n\nAt the time, I was on crutches. You know how hard it is to hobble your ass around on crutches during an earthquake? Haha", "Missouri isn't a place. If it was let me know.", "I'll take a handful of random quakes over a life time vs annual hurricanes and tornadoes. Granted, WA gets a couple of tornadoes a year with the occasional powerful windstorm.", "Tornighto.", "That would be a story I'd keep to myself, had that happened. Haha", "Jesus Christ almighty", "That’s “Misery” for ya 😬", "Therapy time!", "Yes, a pattern of extreme weather events definitely is evidence! And this is part of it", "Few basements south of the Missouri River until the alluvial soil of the Mississippi flood plain. (Mid Arkansas.) it’s lime stone right under the turf. But there are shelters that are very expensive for all sizes and scales of buildings. That are very effective. Insurance is cheap if you ever need it. Dumb fucking hillbillies don’t understand the difference between an expense, and then investment. A microcosm of America right there\n\nMama how do you spell “fur”\n\n“ like on a dog, or Fir like the tree.”\n\n“no ma’am…,. Like two fur a dollar”\n\n\nFrom Missouri brother. And let me tell you, it’s a damn good place to be “from”", "I survived an EF3 tornado this summer and trust me the entire house was shaking. I could feel it through the concrete basement floor I was sitting on and I could see the ceiling shaking. It was so much worse than the small earthquake I experienced as a teenager. I was convinced I was going to die, most terrified I've been in my entire life.", "Hey it could also be moving away from you! So just stand around a little longer and watch it, nothing bad ever happens then /s", "There’s something creepy about the silhouette of the tornado lighting up with the Lighting flash. Scary stuff", "I got caught in a night nado once here in Texas and it was absolutely terrifying. Nowhere near that size, it was a small one, but trying to navigate I-35 in a wall of rain you're basically just using tail lights to gauge distance.\n\nI knew where I was at and was able to navigate off a service ramp to a McDonald's and found out about the tornado there.", "No clue", "Yep, absolutely wild. Never expected anything like it around here. Thanks climate change.", "I live in California and I have the exact same story. I had to work up the courage to look under my bed because I thought there was a spooky ghost under there. Then I found out that it was sa mild earthquake and I felt very relieved.", "Who’s the heartless here? Cause it kinda seems like you.", "Absolutely.", "Well we hate them back for having more voting power despite no one living there.", "I think as long as you don't point fingers then its ok to bring it up. As others have stated climate change is happening and is not political. However how to handle it can be.", "Where in lap land that one in 2020 by the speed way almost got us.", "Yes I never want that to happen to anyone for sure but you know it's true those sirens go off everyone hoes outside. Haha", "I'm going to say the quiet part out loud. But there shouldn't be homes being built in fire areas. We have massive sprawl so people started getting closer and closer to the foothills and then their homes catch on fire. I think we need to stop the delusion.", "What part was hit last nigjt I heard on the news there were some out and about but where ?", "?", "Oh my god, Washington too and I got so nervous I somehow missed that we had massive tornados! I remember that earthquake. I had just gone out of state to help family move, but it was decently big and scared a lot of my friends. Eek. Glad you made it through safely", "To this day the opening of 'Twister' is one of the scariest movie scenes I've watched.", "I don't think people realize how massive California is. Most of those wildfires are in extremely rural areas.", "Two vehicles are traveling in opposite directions, both are going 150 mph, they collide head on. Was their speed 300 mph?", "The earth is literally\nMoving and you have no control of anything.. it’s such a surreal feeling. You cant go anywhere and you don’t know if everything is coming down on you or if the ground is going to open up beneath you. Terrifying stuff. Other times minor ones you sleep through then and wake up to the news lol but even those you feel dizzy like you’re\nGonna pass out before you realize you’re in an earthquake", "Basements should be a mandatory part of the building code for areas with tornado activity. Including businesses/warehouses. All the damage from the tornado is horrible, but the loss of life is preventable and a complete failure of those in charge imo. And I feel that way everytime I see people killed by tornados.", "Tbf, it did deflect it from St. Louis, it just regrouped and hit the metro east.", "Even when some of the lightning strikes light up the area you still cant see it. Mostly the strikes that happen behind it reveal its location and actual size. I’ve never seen quite an example at night before and its scary as hell that you may not even be able to see it in those brief moments of light depending on where it’s coming from.", "On the last \"big\" one in LA during the summer (like a 4.6), I actually got a notification on my phone before it happened. It was real trippy.\n\nRead: Big enough to be sent a notification, but not big enough that it caused any damage thankfully.", "Here are some photos I took of the damage about 9 miles from my house: https://imgur.com/a/uAhNr0D", "Central Illinois and it was 55 last night when I was leaving work. Shit was weird. Windy as fuck. My work was hit by a tornado in 2017. It still haunts me.", "[3:35](https://youtu.be/Pqo73abwcGI?t=215) and Forward is Just fucking surreal", "It's a strange sound but you can absolutely hear it coming. It's only about a fraction of a second to get under your desk but it's something. Cats can \"predict\" the quake but when they do it they're not alarmed enough for you to decipher a quake is coming. It's crazy that there's no warning and your whole life can change.", "Prolly as it went through Arkansas.", "Those semis never even saw it coming.", "Not really, donating money or time to go help are both much more effective than mumbling a few words to yourself.", "NY’s worst tornadoes so far", "Cape is the dream for some of us. The ones like me that love to visit but could never afford to live there.", "[try this](https://twitter.com/controlmidwest?s=21)", "Great. I’m getting transferred there for work next month…", "I still believe the continent should never of been settled, nature really fucky there.", "Missouri is a fucking Third World shit hole poster place. Goddamn man what are you like nine? Going into fourth grade or something? Fucking criminals running the state. Even controlling the two largest cities through completely nefarious and long past dismantling committees in Jefferson City complete corporate capture and mediocrity at best higher education. Roads that look like Germany October 44. Get a grip man. Staff at the back door, light up, and look all around", "Moore, OK as well", "Or batman in the club", "Oh yeah I forgot one thing. Obviously the public primary education leaves a little to be desired….. Missed that didn’t you?", "That is fucking horrifying. At night just makes this 100x worse", "Oh okay thanks for your opinion man. Have a good day.", "Pretty amazing all those columns managed to stay up", "Just think 200 years ago before all this man made climate change, the weather was absolutely perfect everywhere.", "I was in ballet class when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit California and I remember thinking our grand jetés were going to bring the studio down. \n\n\nYours is obviously way funnier, I just think it’s funny how our brains try to make sense of an earthquake and attribute it to something we are doing or something in our environment.", "Granted tornadoes and earthquakes are really scary, but have you experienced THREE INCHES of snow in Georgia? That’s an apocalyptic level of primal fear and chaos I can’t even begin to describe.", "I more ment the people I love all of the different people here but I know there are issues. For the most part the people have always been kind and genuine. I don't really wanna engage was just happy to talk to people from here ! Have a good one.", "This was just a quarter mile from my house. Me and my mom were outside watching the storm when the wind picked up. We ran inside to get the closet and had to lock the door because It wouldn't stay shut. Closest tornado since one that took out part of the strip and the only mozzios in town.", "Not me. \n\nI was both joking about the fact that there are people who care more about their Amazon deliveries arriving late than the death and destruction and insulting those people.\n\nThe tip-off was the whole \"discount Blue Origin Rocket dildo\" part.\n\nI was posing as a heartless asshole who was more interested in getting his Amazon product delivered asap so he could fuck himself up the ass with a discount dildo shaped like a billionaire CEO's rocket (which brings in more layers and subtext to the joke, mainly dealing with the heartlessness associated with billionaires going to space) than the tragic fact that a lot of people died.\n\nLast time I checked, insulting the heartless is the exact opposite of being heartless.\n\nPretty obvious.\n\nIt's such a simple joke. I can't believe I have to explain it.", "Our guard shack has a official weather alert system and we get emails on severe weather. When it goes off they hit a button and it sets off a pa system alert. We got hit in 2017-ef3, and it took half the factory with it. We had people in a shelter directly under the tornado and they were unharmed altho some retired that day.", "That’s cool of y’all. Good stuff.", "Well maybe parts of it, lots of the americas are quite liveable", "Fall and Spring are both hot times for tornadoes because of temperature fluctuations.", "Mr. President, will the Christmas presents arrive on time, sir?", "Wildfire smoke affects far more than the local area and makes it miserable to do anything outside for days at a time.", "Its so deceptive how slow it looks too. This was traveling at like 70 miles per hour apparently.", "Earthquakes on the east coast tend to be more violent actually! Due to the plates below being \"older\", the energy tends to go out further from the epicenter, as opposed to ones on the west coast.\n\nThis [video](https://youtu.be/Kn2KFC8cX-g) is worth a watch if you have the time.", "Not really defending anything here, but once you live through 30+ tornado warnings, you start to become numb to them. You can send 500 different warning/watch alerts, but nobody actually cares until the sirens go off, and even then half the neighborhood goes outside to play Spot the Tornado.", "Your Mom instinctively protected you from that fear. Exuding calm even though she was terrified. That's a good Mom.", "Thank you for this.", "Wow. The stripped trees are spooky", "Earths crust is literal hacks.", "We only know how serious it was after the storm happened. How many times have really strong storms hit that you were out shopping, eating at a restaurant, or going to school? Sure, there may be a tornado you think, but... \n\nEverything everywhere can't/won't shut down for storms blowing through the area.", "My brother lives right on Fairway Drive over there by you. He got the whole family of 6 plus a dog and an axolotl in the basement with 10 minutes to spare. Tornado rolled right through that neighborhood. They're all okay. They have debris from the warehouse all over their yard.", "eerie I was thinking about tornadoes last night not knowing this horrific incedent was occuring rip and best regards for those involved.", "Because in 5 years the video will still be there.", "It's not a hurricane where you have notice of what's coming. In a tornado at best you have 10-15 min notice. The conditions were right for severe weather but places don't shut down for a chance of severe weather. That's almost everyday in that area of the country in the spring/summer.", "Still a better night time shot than S08E03 of Game of Thrones", "How big was it? Fujita scale wise?", "Yeah that sounds petrifying. I'm glad we were far enough away that it was just heavy rains/wind and thunder/lightning. dominos still was taking orders haha", "How big was it? Fujita scale wise?", "The huge uprooted tree gets me, along with the way that sheet metal is just casually bent around those tree trunks.", "Thanks. I have recurring tornado dreams. This will add one more. :)", "maybe i'm missing something here. i'm no expert on any of this but all the google pics of la nina showing the nw as being wetter. so, does it show up after summer? because it sure wasn't wet here then when it was 116.", "Usually they have a hardened area to go to or they tell you to move towards the middle of the building. In this case, neither worked.", "If it makes you feel better the odds of getting hit by a tornado is really small. I think the widest tornado was about a mile wide an earthquake can damage several hundred or thousands of miles around it.", "Climate change is a globalist political campaign to further grow our already massive government. Multiple countries. Let the market decide", "Had one hit my house this year just after asking my dad if he’d had ever been in one. Definitely jinxed myself. I watched twister for like 3 weeks straight after and it legit sounds like a train when it’s over you I still can’t forget that noise", "Thats absolutely an anomaly, they don't usually do that", "And it will have a date next to it on reddit, and/or could be in video description", " Basements aren't common next to the Mississippi River due to flooding issues.", "God judging Republicans... or climate change. You be the judge. Either way they asked for it", "if I ever win the lottery, I'm chasing storms.", "Mostly it's bad luck. If it's a big one like Joplin that comes through a populated area and you're just in a typical basement, if it hits you square it's a matter of somehow not getting crushed by your house. You might have warning and be sheltering and doing everything you're supposed to do and still get (un)lucky.", "Look I don't swear at people often on Reddit, but mother fucker do you know how bad it's been this year. An entire town in Canada just BURNED DOWN, this is entirely the result of global warming. \n\nThere is no reason to deny it's anything but that, because normally tornados don't appear in the middle of winter and then go across four states killing over three digits of people\n\nYou're being downvoted because you're actively spreading misinformation, whether intentional or not.", "Also shitty bigots, so...", "No. I don’t live near by at all but this is really rare.", "> I was both joking about the fact that there are people who care more about their Amazon deliveries arriving late than the death and destruction and insulting those people.\n\nWho are these hypothetical people? Because the only heartless person posting in this thread seems to be the one trying to make and then explain in minute detail some ghoulish joke.\n\n>I was posing as a heartless asshole who was more interested in getting his Amazon product delivered asap so he could fuck himself up the ass with a discount dildo shaped like a billionaire CEO's rocket (which brings in more layers and subtext to the joke, mainly dealing with the heartlessness associated with billionaires going to space)\n\nOh, you are so clever. So many layers to your joke. Bet it sounded funnier in your head, too.", "My wife and girlfriend are traveling to see her mother and stopped in bowling Green for the night. Woke up this morning to no electricity and sirens going off. The tornado just missed them. They are ok and returning home now.", "Help what? Bring the people back to life? FEMA and the state governments and insurance are going to pay for the damage. I’m an atheist too but there are a lot of people that appreciate people who vocalize that they are praying for them. Go look on Facebook if you need confirmation on that. Whether you or I believe or not if they think it helps then it helps. The absolute least you could do is have an argument online about whether sending prayers will help. You and I sir are the ones doing the absolute least amount", "Yeah, it's the lightning strikes between the camera and the tornado where there's nothing, and then one from behind the tornado that shows that monstrosity that amaze me.", "Stop this. Stop saying this like an idiot. You know better, you know youre ignoring the fact that there have been over a dozen severe weather incidents since COVID started, Greece nearly burned down! \n\nYou half googling \"are tornadoes getting worse\" isn't a form of proper research, but you shouldn't need it when there are hundreds of studies made in the last twenty years that prove things are getting worse. You're using the traditional \"hey you CANT PROVE ITS GLOBAL WARMING\" argument that conservative idiots like Ben Shapiro use. \n\nDo you really think you want to make the same argument as Ben fucking Shapiro", "Fuck both of those things. I live in New England, worst we get is a blizzard or a weaker hurricane and you’ve got a good 3-5 days notice for both of those things. How the fuck do you guys live in places that do this, with little to no warning?!?", "I was in Mexico City a week before that earthquake hit. I was staying in a room about 30 stories up. I'm so glad I wasn't there when it actually hit though", "You know, now that I think of it... I can only think of two or three shelter warnings during the day time as well. All the ones I remember growing up were at night. We had so many that the dog I had growing up would beat us to the bathroom when the sirens went off.", "To clarify, at the time I made my comment, his edit wasn't there. His comment simply said they were really rare, and that he couldn't remember any.\n\nLike I said, I was just giving some context as to what 'really rare' means. Some people might take that to mean 1 every 4-5 years, and others might think 1 every 100 years.\n\nAnd again, I didn't spend much time tracking down all the events. For example, here was an outbreak that included an F4 in that area, in Feb. of 2012.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Leap_Day_tornado_outbreak", "Welcome to Missouri. We have every natural disaster other than hurricanes available on the menu. Enjoy!", "[2012 Leap Day tornado outbreak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Leap_Day_tornado_outbreak) \n \n >The 2012 Leap Day tornado outbreak was a significant and deadly tornado outbreak on February 28 and February 29, 2012. It caused severe damage in several regions, especially the Great Plains and Ohio Valley regions. It also resulted in several tornadoes in the Central Plains, a rarity for the time of year. The most destructive and deadly tornado was a violent early-morning EF4 that hit Harrisburg, Illinois, killing 8 people.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "I read that that tornado sent debris 30k feet into the air! The idea of debris being able to hit an airplane is insane to me.", "I would add shrouded by rain.", "Yeah the undercarriage of trains is solid iron. Like I’d expect the structure to be blown off and just leave the chassis and wheels behind but to move them too? Now if it moved the locomotive with the diesel inside that would be impressive.", "Maybe more of a sit down lady for the next while.", "I actually didn’t know blue origin was the company that’s pretty funny.", "Eyyyy Scott city", "Yeah this definitely was a special one. You would not have outrun this if it came at you. Guy filming 100% risked his life in a massive way here.", "All this video needs is the nightmarish sound of a distant tornado siren.", "Maybe... \n\n...or maybe you're just one of the many people that are just looking for excuses to bully other people while turning society into one that's too thin skinned and bland to handle a poignant multi-layered joke.\n\nIf you ask me, the growing number of comedians that complain about people like you have a point.", "A lot of the area around here is nothing but fields, so it's pretty incredible to see the fields littered with debris. It's absolutely everywhere.", "We don't get earth quakes in Oklahoma very often, or at least we didn't used to. A few years ago there was a pretty shaky one with its epicenter only a few miles away from me. I was in my room and I could see the walls moving at the corners like a fucking house of cards wobbling.\n\nOur buildings just aren't built for this. I honestly think if the earth quake was a little bit stronger my apartment would've been in danger of collapsing.", "We know how to measure emissions and forecast the weather. If you think it can't be proven then I dare say you don't want it to be proven, your confirmation bias has kept you from finding out for yourself if it's real or not.", "I live in Idaho. No one really cares about Idaho and it doesn’t get a lot of love. But we don’t have tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, or alligators. I like Idaho.", "They generally don’t. This is potentially a world record tornado.", "They can't look at it with thermal cameras or something? Fully kitted out chasers just have to wait for lightning?", "Avalanche but with farts", "I've never seen any of those fires in person", "I'm in NE Ohio as well. We were directly hit with a confirmed F0 back in October. As scary as that was I can't imagine what it was like for people last night.\n\nEven an October tornado is extremely rare for NE Ohio. You might remember the January tornado a few years ago. Took place a few days after New Year. Weather is weird", "Sad thing is every news source across the entire region was warning hours in advance to make a plan and be prepared to take cover. The storm chasers were reportedly in our area just waiting for the system to develop.", "I was just sitting there watching and thinking...how the hell do they still have pow...and it's gone!", "Difference between a Tornado Watch and a Tornado Warning is someone actually seeing a funnel touching the ground and calling it in. They can see rotation and such on radar but a lot of the upgrade from watch to warning is done by chasers calling in. He probably gave enough info that made the Weather Service issue the take shelter alert as opposed to just a normal severe storm warning", "Yay!\n\nThank you for being fair and open-minded.", "Lol, so what?", "Twister has perfect scene for that", "Now look who suddenly got political with conspiracy theory bullshit.\n\nPathetic. I know your dumb games. So predictable.", "This is incredible footage. But also, is this guy fucking nuts?", "Woah, that was the first ever earthquake myself experienced! I had just moved to Seattle in May of 2019.", "Oh yes, your joke was so poignant. I especially liked the part where you took the story about people dying in a tornado and implied that they can no longer complete their work because they're dead. Ha ha! Cutting edge humor, few would understand all the layers.", "Thought they were still trying to confirm if it stayed grounded for the full length", "Same in Ontario, it was like 16 today and super windy. Tbh I can't even fathom tornados or earthquakes.", "We really need to invest more into NEXRAD", "It’s a measurement using the Doppler radar, which can measure winds speeds going away and towards the radar station (using the Doppler effect). From what I r looked up wind shear is the difference in the velocity of the winds on two sides of a particular point. \n\nA wind shear of 300 means that at a certain pixel on the map where the tornado is, the winds on top of the pixel are going 150 mph away from the station and the winds below that pixel are going 150 mph towards the station.\n\nIt doesn’t really measure the wind speed around the tornado (like circularly) but is an indication of the strength.", "All good, I appreciate the info. My comment was purely anecdotal.", "If I’m going out by tornado I at least want to see how fucking insane it looks.", "It was bad, two nursing homes got taken out. And if I remember correctly the tornado itself went 220 miles without stopping. It was a record for something, im pretty sure it was the longest lasting tornado in the US. I’m probably wrong so feel free to educate me :D", "Would people be angry if he had a windscreen on his mic?", "I was in Katrina (funny enough, I lived in Washington state at the time and just happened to be in the area) and it was so unbelievably intense. One of the things that has stuck with me was the sound — it was like a thousand demons outside howling at once. \n\nWe got lucky. We were sheltering in an empty house (someone our group director knew was selling it and offered for people to stay there during the storm — which was actually to their benefit because we could do a few things to protect the house beforehand). One part of the roof was torn off, and a glass window I was standing near exploded. I also remember watching distant objects flying in the night sky and realizing those were pieces of fencing, walls, and entire rooftops. I was 19 and was probably more excited than scared, to be honest. It was like an adventure. \n\nWhat wasn't an adventure was spending the next few days living off saltines, bottled water we bought at gouged prices, trying to drive through road choked with debris just to find food, using water collected in the bathtub to flush the toilet, etc. We passed through the eye, but we were in Kendall, north of the area that was hardest-hit (Homestead) so houses were mostly intact. I do remember hearing we needed to watch out for animals that escaped from the zoo!", "Both are bad, why do we need to say which is worse? It’s apples and oranges", "Another cow flew by.\n\nIt’s the same cow.", "It was like textbook poignant.\n\nI wasn't joking about the people being killed and not being able to do their work, genius. \n\nI was joking and insulting the fact that there are people out there that are so heartless, so selfish, and so closed-minded that they care more about a late Amazon delivery than the tragic reason behind their late amazon delivery.\n\nShaming that kind of selfishness is the whole point... a joke that shames selfishness and heartlessness can be described as a poignant joke/social commentary. At the end of the day, the hypothetical heartless asshole in the joke was going to fuck himself in the ass with a dildo shaped like the rocket that carried a heartless billionaire to the edge of space which was more interesting and important to him than using his funds to do more good for his fellow humans on earth... which is pretty heartless.\n\nNow, the fact that there may be some people downvoting the hypothetical asshole in the joke is nice and adds to the overall statement.\n\nThe people who downvote the joke, take offense to the joke, and/or complain about the joke because they feel it's tasteless... that's sad but also funny since they're completely missing the point of the joke which points to another lingering problem in society today... one that a growing number of famous comedians are complaining about.\n\nSo far, you've gotten it wrong at least TWICE.\n\nIf you get it wrong again, I might really start thinking that you're doing it on purpose.", "People who live in that country are constantly making jokes about how dangerous my country is. The fuck?", "What CA earthquake?!? the major one hasn’t hit yet", "All over (Christian) Tik Tok, I was seeing people who were claiming to prophesies a traumatic event happening on December 11th. This is too much of a coincidence.", "The Finger of God", "Jesus Christ why do you have to argue your beliefs with a random person on Reddit who happened to believe in God. Stop being an annoying Atheist", "Lmao I know, why do redditors have to be so fucking annoying", "Yes, the tornado alley of old has changed dramatically. The comparison of tornado sightings and EF ratings to yesteryear is some of the most clear evidence of global warming.", "70 now", "Do.....the waves get that big? I don't know if I want to know", "Have they said what EF it was?", "Ah yes, \"gate to gate shear\". Thanks for communicating clearly with a general audience.", "Hurricanes can become like 30 mile wide tornados tho. Look at Andrew. Complete devastation.", "So you’re satirizing some hypothetical person that doesn’t exist in this thread or probably even in real life? And then patting yourself on the back for making a joke that is “textbook poignant”?\n\nPlease invite me to your next standup gig. You’ve clearly got a knack for comedy", "The collision speed was 300mph, yes.", "> hypothetical person that doesn’t exist\n\nYes but people like that really do exist. They may not be waiting on a rocket-shaped dildo but they do exist.\n\nMany of them are prejudiced too. Some wrap themselves in excuses like \"The tornado was God's wrath against <insert group of people they hate here>\". I think I actually saw a comment like that down below.", "um, no", "How big was this tornado?", "Is it normal to get tornados this time of year?", "Everything I've read says it did. It traveled a total of 250+ miles, but was grounded for a 200 mile stretch.", "I live is san diego. I understand. What you are describing is called the wildland urban interface, which i mentioned in my original comment. Still, the majority of Californians do not live in those areas.", "Just imagining the people who lived in the area hundreds of years ago, before it was even understood what a tornado was.", "Wow, amazing to find somebody else from Pittsburg in the wild! I grew up there. I have lived in Texas my whole adult life and to this day I have yet to find a queso that can beat Cafe del Rio's.", "Flight mode kicked in. Your body was trying to give you a boost to start running", "There are many reasons that the t-rex attack in the original Jurassic Park happens in the rain and at night. Way easier to hide the cgi, and obscured threats are often (though not always) inherently scarier than clearly visible ones.", "I want you to know, from an outsiders perspective: You* are the biggest idiot I've seen this month.", "In US history, the deadliest earthquakes and deadliest tornados have been about equal. For the most part, the areas vulnerable to each disaster see them regularly and go about their day. Hurricanes in the US can be an order of magnitude deadlier.\n\nHowever, nothing really compares to what an earthquake can do except maybe volcanos. The Port-au-Prince earthquake in Haiti is estimated to have killed 300,000. The tsunami from the Box Day earthquake killed over 200,000.\n\nI'll take tornados over earthquakes any day.", "Holy shit - how many people were killed by this storm? How much notice do people get? I can't think of anything more scary than middle of the night tornadoes. Terrifying.", "Uh, a massive 9+ Earthquake literally leaves everything in shambles. Tornadoes have a tremdoundsly small footprint, even the large ones. As a former meteorologist, I can assure you, earthquakes are a far more dangerous phenomenon.", "I mean it kinda is.", "Correlation can equal causation too you stupid ass worm.\n\nDo you know what scientifically gathered anectodes are called??", "Buys corporation made products…. Damn you corporations, it’s your fault…!", "Pretty sure this would still destroy most of our regular European houses, the older ones at the very least.\n\nYou definitely wouldn't want to be in its path even in a modern house", "better get used to it, only get worse from here on out.", "Nah, you could be beak from marvel.", "Yeah tornadoes have been increasing at the end of the year the last 20 years or so directly because of warmer temps during the November/December months due to climate change. [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFrgSVoJi1U&ab_channel=MarcWells) is one from Washington, IL Nov 2013. Very unusual time of year. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5OqgeB7bvo&ab_channel=BasehuntersChasing) is another from Dec 2015 in Texas. Also very rare. There are a few other ones too", "Yeah,I have a pretty bad Astigmatism and driving at night in something like that would terrifying and almost impossible.", "My memory is shitty but was that the Mexican place in the mall across from mall deli? Because the quest there was good. I would also kill for a mall deli bagel most mornings.", "The Tri-State tornado was honestly the most disastrous and terrifying tornado I could possibly think of.\n\nDidn’t the storm cell also produce like 500 other smaller tornados", "It even hit 70+ in South KC yesterday. Woke up for work today and it was below freezing.", "the weather channel has been playing an audio clip from a lady who was trapped (with it sounds like a few other people) inside from the factory. She says something on the recording that they were inside of the shelter room.", "I can tell you from experience what truly strikes fear in you: Tornado alarms blaring in the middle of the night with your power going out. It's total silence except for those wailing sirens. Pure nightmare fuel. Your TVs and router go out, and now you can only track what's happening on your phone over cell data. Just a few seconds ago you had local news guys tracking everything on TV with radar - and even calling out specific roads where the bad stuff is happening. Then suddenly all that is gone. That shit is scary.", "So, no?", "My brother and his wife lost their home to a tornado the day after Christmas in the Dallas area a few years ago. \n\nYear-long tornado season will probably be a norm in the future.", "That's why there are going to be a host of lawsuits against both of them.", "Yeah then at 3:40 the city lights suddenly go out! Creepy!", "Hurricanes are the worst bar a Volcano but at least you know when a hurricane is coming that's all I'm saying", "Yup you can, it's simple thermodynamics. More energy trapped in a closed system equals more energetic weather. \n\nThere's now evidence that exactly matches predictions. Science...", "That it is. Most of the food there is mediocre at best, bit their queso is legit and has been for at least 20 years", "Those are the only two options? lol", "Footage like this is why midwesterners are braver than the troops", "The market is deciding in the form of sending money to Manchin to place him against the spending bills. \n\nIf you know anything about history you’d know the last 40 years has been encapsulated by small gov Reaganism and that gov spending/taxes we’re far higher prior to that when America was thriving.", "Indiana here, hey state neighbor! Over here we had tornado warnings all night up until about 6am, with it being so warm my furnace barely kicked on so all I had to listen to while laying in bed was wind. It just felt wrong, between the temperature and the sirens I was on fucking edge all night.", "Night tornadoes and midnight earthquakes are just a big fuck you by nature", "You can't shut down whole regions of the Midwest everytime there's storms with a chance of a tornado. That's why buildings have storm shelters. Otherwise they'd be closed for half of spring.", "That doesn’t mean this is directly caused by climate change. Jesus Christ lol. Yes climate change is a real thing. That does not mean this one fucking tornado is undoubtedly a direct cause of it. Nobody can prove that. That’s all I’m saying.", "Yes. And from various reports and social media that sounds like where the Amazon employees were.", "You can't compare an earthquake in a third world country like Haiti to one in the US. Infrastructure is set up to withstand earthquakes in California so an earthquake isn't that scary", "Welcome to the coming future. I suspect this is going to be more and more common. \n\nHave you had crazy shifts in temps since the start of October aswell? I ride motorcycles and it's been crazy the variance in weather throughout the week now. Last week it was in the 30's no sunlight, windy as hell, dreary weather and then we had 2 random days of 70+ degree weather like it was spring.", "Southern western ma has nice towns like Wilbraham and Longmeadow. But oh yea Wilbraham got hit by a tornado about 10yrs ago", "What infrastructure is designed to stop homes from being destroyed by a tornado?? Bad enough to politicize this event, but damn that doesn’t even make any sense.", "It kinda isn't, someone does weather tracking, saw the incoming storm, sold a story to a bunch of gullible idiots, winner winner chicken dinner. How do you think weather reports work when they give you a forecast?", "Im out of town for work while my partner is back at our homestead…. Multiple tornadoes touched down within 20 minutes of the house. She is texting me “im out trying to catch the chickens before the storm hits” and im replying GET IN THE FUCKING BASEMENT NOW \n\nLuckily we werent hit by anything", "Anthropocentric", "You wrote a wall of text because someone gave their PERSONAL preference. Nobody said it was a fact that Tornados are worse.\n\n\nYou are being downvoted cause you look like an overreacting clown… lmao", "I think people are getting defensive bc the argument of “this specific example isnt tied to the bigger picture” when repeated is a tacticused by climate change deniers to try and debate the effects of climate change. I’m not calling you a denier either but the argument you present is the exact type of argument climate deniers use", "Just want to remind people tornados still happen in the northeast. I grew up in Springfield, MA and my parents home was directly in the path of a tornado that hit about 10yrs ago. Sure it’s not as common, but it happens.", "IMO Californians’ fear of earthquakes should be minimal. I’ve lived here nearly all my life and seldom felt one. The worst one for me was the 1989 Bay Area quake, which was substantial. Buildings don’t just fall down anymore, due to building codes and kick-ass engineering.", "Name in the vid probably a giveaway no? He's a storm chaser (or at the least he's very into storms).", "Yep my parents house in New England was directly in the path of a tornado. Our neighbors house was also left in even worse condition during a bad nor’easter when a massive tree fell on it.", "That drone got good footage. It's crazy to see complete destruction everywhere, but then there will be a few random houses that don't look like they've been touches.\n\nSome of those cars were smashed like coke cans. Terrible", "It’s not uncommon here in the south, this one was more severe than normal tho.", "MA drivers are aggressive, but they aren’t nearly as bad as sooo many other states. I mean, Rhode Islanders shouldn’t even be allowed to drive in other states. Same for New Jersey and Florida", "Can you calm yourself down? What is your problem? I’m not arguing against climate change. Your reading comprehension skills are bad.", "This one hit my parents house.", "It's things like this that explains why rural people are so religious. A video is one thing but being there must be so intense, I really hope its not as bad as we're hearing", "Just be careful. Long clothing, Deet spray, etc. I’ve lived in New England my entire life and when I actually got Lyme, it was from camping in the dunes on Long Island, which technically isn’t even New England", ">You wrote a wall of text \n\nOhhh lmao, I didn't even consider the possibility it was the semi-literate crowd getting mad about reading. \n\n>someone gave their PERSONAL preference.\n\nAnd I responded with objective reality explaining why their \"PERSONAL preference\" is fucking stupid.", "The 2011 Tohoku earthquake and tsunami killed almost 20,000 in Japan. That can happen in the US, but a tornado outbreak is unlikely to be able to do that.", "This is terrifying!! I live in Clarksville Tennessee and that bad boy was just a couple miles north of me at about 12:15 am central time. I seriously feel so lucky.\n\n[here is a pic](https://www.reddit.com/r/Clarksville/comments/re0b4y/how_is_everyone_this_morning_i_hope_everyone_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I got off clarksvillenow.com (not sure why it says 1:07am unless that's eastern time for some reason. Tornado warning expired at 12:30am)", "Both.", "Worse, sharknadoes.", "It still blows my mind that we don't have snow, not too long ago it would start snowing around Thanksgiving, it would warm up enough to melt it a few times but by Christmas there would be a good covering of it on the ground.", "This", "We had to pack EVERONE at my restaurant job into the wine cellar. Customers, cooks and all. TWICE", "The 2011 tornado outbreak shifted my cousins solid brick home off of its foundation. Didn’t really damage the house, just sort of picked it up and put it back down in the wrong spot.\n\nHigh wind does some weird shit.", "They also reported a rain-wrapped funnel. Nightmare fuel for anyone. You can't see where it's at, day or night!\n\nThere was one tornado that stayed on the ground for 300 miles, a record. \n\nAnother was a EF5 single vortex, 250+ MPH winds. Shattering the Joplin multivortex.", "This is the most casual real life Horror Movie i've ever seen. Sure the guy filming was OK. But just imagine the terror those in it's path went though. No power, completely dark, and the sound.", "Burying the lines can increase their capacitance, and make it harder to propagate an electromagnetic field. \n\nhttps://youtu.be/bHIhgxav9LY", "I respect (cause not everyone can up and leave) but also wonder what makes people want to live in known tornado areas. Be safe", "Not just lightning but also exploding transformers. The big flashes on the ground at the beginning are what those are.", "Exactly my point.", "Earthquakes are interesting. My first big one was a 5.3 when I was at uni here in the uk. It was weird and no one knew what the hell was going on. My flatmates and everyone upstairs ended up in my room, scared. I assured them it was just an earthquake and they were fine. Yep, earthquake. I remember people yelling out if Windows asking what it was and I was yelling earthquake out, then you could hear people yelling further away, passing it on! It was amazing hearing it Rumble away. \n\nBiggest was a 6.1 in Japan in 2011. This was after the 9.0 earthquake. Woke me up. As the building was still shaking I dived across to the tv to find out what size it was. Someone was screaming their head off in the building. Me, I wasn't worried. The place had just gone through a 9.0, a smaller quake was nothing compared to it.\n\nI've never seen a tornado. Seen a funnel cloud once, seen mamantus clouds but nothing more.", "Buildings that can't have basements should still have some kind of cement storm shelter...or just don't build there if you can't make a structure that's safe for the area.", "The stillness in the air around these storms is the real scarry part. The pressures are super creepy.", "Thank you for your service.", "Despite the downvotes I understand your logic. But the risk in using that logic is that it allows you to always ignore every event.\n\nImagine you’re filling up a bath with water. Every minute you measure the height and say, “well the water’s higher than my last reading but we can’t take one higher reading as proof the bath is filling up.”\n\nThen you look at your tape measure in the bath and observe ripples that sometimes make the water height lower and sometimes higher. So therefore conclude one high reading isn’t proof the bath is rising when some readings are lower than the highest reading.\n\nThen a minute later you take another reading which was higher than your last highest reading but again you observe the little waves in the filling bath cause some readings to be lower than the highest reading so again point out that the highest reading can therefore be ignored as not proof the bath is rising.\n\nAnd then each reading you ignore because you’re not prepared to accept the highest reading as proof until suddenly the bath is full and you say with surprise, “Oh look the bath is full. Well heck, I didn’t see that coming.”\n\nSo when every year we get higher temperature records around the world. We get bigger and longer forest fires. We get a giant out of season tornado. Record floods. These aren’t like once every 10 years we break one record. It’s every year, year-on-year, that’s when you know the bath is filling up, not just rippling at a static height.", "Think of the shareholders!", "Biggest I've been in was a 6.1. Wasn't scary at all, just a wth because it woke me up. The only reason why I wasn't scared was because it happened in Japan in 2011, after the 9.0 earthquake. The hotel survived that fine. The buildings there are all built to survive earthquakes. Now, if I was in LA and that hit, I'd be running for my life outside.", "I was in Olympia in the library I work at. About half the books ended up on the floor, good times:)", "The tsunami is what killed people. The earthquake caused it, but I wouldn't classify them as the same", "Haha I kinda understand the need to get the chickens", "r/jesuschristreddit", "Not quite the same, but about 15 years ago a tornado dropped down right after it went over my house for about 50 yards then went back up before getting to the house behind us. \n\nWe were in the basement because it was 2am, didn't notice until the next morning when we saw the trees behind our house twisted like paper half way down.", "I recently bought a house in a midsized city in the Midwest. I haven't experienced a close call yet and I don't want to :-(", "But it's also like the one monster you're most safe from if you DO go in the basement", "Hurricanes no problem, but you can keep your EQs and twisters.", "Here's a good tip : if you are watching a tornado and it looks like it's not moving, that means it's coming toward you.", "My entire family survived one ripping through our property up north while (Michigan) we were all in campers. Sounded like a train in the middle of the woods. When we could finally go back outside one of the largest trees on our property was downed. We still use fire wood from that damn tree to this day. The tornado happened when I was in 1st grade, and I'm 30 now.", "It depends. As other people have said, the best thing is to go to your basement or cellar but there are also a lot of people who live in flimsy trailers. I can't imagine how stressful it must be to gather up your family in the middle of the night and drive through the storm to the local school or whatever the designated public shelter is.", "Just like twister…\n\n\n…RIP Bill Paxton.", "Incorrect there buddy.\n\nTornado Watch: Be Prepared! Tornadoes are possible in and near the watch area. Review and discuss your emergency plans and check supplies and your safe room. Be ready to act quickly if a warning is issued or you suspect a tornado is approaching. Acting early helps to save lives! Watches are issued by the Storm Prediction Center for counties where tornadoes may occur. The watch area is typically large, covering numerous counties or even states.\n\nTornado Warning: Take Action! A tornado has been sighted or indicated by weather radar. There is imminent danger to life and property. Move to an interior room on the lowest floor of a sturdy building. Avoid windows. If in a mobile home, a vehicle, or outdoors, move to the closest substantial shelter and protect yourself from flying debris. Warnings are issued by your local forecast office. Warnings typically encompass a much smaller area (around the size of a city or small county) that may be impacted by a tornado identified by a forecaster on radar or by a trained spotter/law enforcement who is watching the storm.\n\n[\\-National Weather Service](https://www.weather.gov/safety/tornado-ww)\n\nHere is a [tornado warning](https://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/data/raw/wf/wfus54.kmob.tor.mob.txt) that was issued earlier this morning who's source is listed as \"Radar indicated rotation.\" [Another one](https://www.mdt.mt.gov/_resources/pl/rdrpt.pl?rptname=Tornado) issued on July 6th.", "Most dangerous event is a hurricane. It slowly builds, and by the time you realize you’re in trouble its too late to leave.", "That's pretty normal during good afternoon thunderstorms in Florida. It's mainly only during the summer though.", "Were those motherboards on the road at the end?", "Yeah dude. I’m from Louisiana. Hurricanes are like that. Literally pitch black and you can hear shit being thrown around but can’t see it. I remember maybe Katrina, I was very young, maybe 10-11, but I remember my mother dragging us across the house after a tree fell on one side. The sound outside was so terrifying.", "That moment when the lights go out is so heartbreaking.", "I've lived in the Midwest my entire life, and I never remember tornados in December until til the last few years.", "Sorry, no I didn't mean that. (EDIT: and yes, you are right I do not know and am only repeating what my opinion is based on media reporting.)\n\nThere probably have not been multiple unusual tornadoes in a very short time period (this month or year), but over decades the trend has been going up.\n\nalthough extreme/unusual events happen suddenly, the pattern of their increasing strength and frequency has been gradual. (climate change is not immediate, localized, or short-term.)\n\nscientists are not debating whether it is happening. they are trying to describe why it is happening. observing this is difficult when we're talking about such long time periods. for example, they are just now figuring out how to integrate interdacadal pacific oscillation into climate models.", "I've been within a mile of two EF-5 tornadoes but never at night. This is downright terrifying.", "Hurricanes are my problem now, too!", "Nightmare fuel", "From a kinetic energy standpoint, no. Energy increases at the square of speed, so hitting a parked at 300 is much worse than hitting another car traveling at 150", "what do you even do?", "Just because he loves doing it doesn’t make it more sane :)", "I was trying across the middle of Kansas with a friend when a tornado warning came on the radio. He was driving and was focused on finding shelter as soon as possible. My job was to try and see a tornado at night…", "Hard to do when you're balls deep into pokemon blue. Haha", "Fun fact: biggest earthquake quake in US history wasNew Madrid, Missouri. It made the Mississippi River temporarily flow backwards", "Yes, you are, you're saying there's no proof this tornado that killed a hundred people was caused by global warming but \"oh it's just a random freak storm!\" because the science isn't conclusive, but thats because you don't just say \"oh its definitely this\" in a study or report, because you are leaving yourself open to the possibility of alternate causes to said problem.\n\nBut unless that alternate problem is a fucking storm god enacting his vengance upon America, there is no alternative. The root cause of these freak weather patterns has become a universal across the world and it's people like you unintentionally misunderstanding scientific method that only continues to inflate the talking point.", "I mean, one just took out a decent chunk of Kentucky....\n\nJoplin and Moore are also major modern day twisters that resulted in widespread damage and large loss of life.", "Meh.\nThe thing with tornadoes is they can rip through a neighborhood, take out a few houses, and not lift a shingle on the surrounding homes.", "So every tornado that we have now is caused by global warming? It’s not even a freak event. Tornadoes have always been possible in December. Keep bitching about it.", "Anthropogenic", "Dammit lol", "I don't understand. What was he incorrect about? His statements are in line with the definitions you listed.", "That tornado is massive, that's insane. Feel bad for you guys down there.", "No. You don’t. I’ve lived in Missouri my whole life and still haven’t seen one in person but I have seen the damage they’ve done. One similar to the one in the video ripped through a town called Joplin about an hour from where I live and I saw the damage it did. It’s not something you want to experience.", "It's fine, it's just a red state.", "This is the worst argument you can make, and one I just had to answer less then ten seconds ago. \n\nI want you to go look at every weather disaster we've had in the last five years. I want you to look at those numbers and those situations and explain to me how Texas having two severe power outages over temperature extremes (first one and then the other), the UK dealing with extreme weather, Greece burning down, a town in Canada burning down, floods hitting multiple coastal regions, extreme bouts of wind in general (I live in a city literally Called Windsor and we've had some windstorms that could send small children flying)\n\nIt's not that there was a tornado, you dingus, it's that there was a Tornado plus everything else, and then that Tornado was one of the worst we've seen in a very long time. \n\nDo you not see how saying \"oh it might not be global warming!\" is a bit of a pointless debate. Of course, you just casually moved the goalpost away from the previous argument, because you know you're wrong and can't actually argue about how you were misinterpreting the information.", "I guess you're right (150^2 * 2) < (150 * 2)^2\n\nI'm struggling to get my head around this, though. If the two cars were floating towards each other in space, then the two situations seem to be identical, just viewed from a different reference frame.", "Storm chasers are pretty good at spotting. They get used to looking for the signs.\n\nTornadoes can be be doppler indicated. Rotation and debris fields will show up. There's also a \"hook\" in storms where they like to form, so you can see signs before one touches down. I really suggest looking up tornadoes and how they're indicated on radar. It's super interesting, if nothing else.\n\nMy older sister was fascinated with tornadoes when we were kids. I was much less fascinated and more terrified, but still had to sit through god knows how many documentaries and listen to her rants. I kept to the ocean, but she moved to the midwest, where she's seen several. I've gotten quite a few rambles in the past few days from her because the signs were there for a major outbreak.", "Reminds me of the Stranger Things trailers.", "In a lot of ways it’s still better than some other places. Instead of hurricanes regularly trying to kill everyone, we just have tornadoes occasionally trying really hard to kill a few people. Though it was startling when the Joplin tornado moved a whole ass hospital on its foundation several inches.", "I’ve lived in south west Missouri my whole life and still haven’t seen one but have been under numerous tornado warnings. Tornados as big and powerful as the one in video are extremely rare. The odds of a tornado hitting your house at all isn’t really that high", "A tornado watch is issued for when there are \"weather conditions that are favorable for tornadoes and severe weather.\"\n\nA tornado warning is issued when \" a tornado has been reported by spotters or indicated by radar and there is a serious threat to life and property to those in the path of the tornado.\" -[NOAA National Severe Storms Laboratory](https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/tornadoes/)", "Hey do these people know that 99.99% of us survived this tornado? Survival rate is practically 100%! FAKE NEWS! \n\nI wonder if the bumpkins are learning yet.", "And Arkansas and Kentucky and…", "Are you honestly attempting to look and struggling to use the right key terms or are you purposefully spinning your own wheels to appear as if you are trying?\n\nLearned incompetence much?", "...repeating the definitions doesn't change the fact that it's in line with what the other person said, dude.", "Those people warp and twist the bible into meaning anything they want. It's a sickness.", "That's honestly an understatement. As usual, you need to drag along conservatices to see the reality. Remember when the Republican Senator threw a snowball on the senate floor to disprove global warming..? Remember when Trump said it was a Chinese hoax?\n\nTo this day, conservatives are less likely to believe climate change is real and exacerbated by humans... That's not political, that's just scientific ignorance.", "yes, a date exactly matching the youtube title. what a thing to bitch about", "This cannot be thumbs upped enough", "Dude… you’re taking this way too far. All I’m saying is that you cannot directly attribute a single tornado to global warming. Jesus ducking Christ. Get off your high horse or whatever the fuck you’re on. It’s not that complicated.", "What? I’m saying there are more than just the one source I linked. Do you want me to link every source for you?", "Born and raised in Springfield. I remember the Joplin tornado, drove through and saw the damage as well", "I saw this earlier today. Watching this massive tornado smash all the houses is heartbreaking...", "That means a lot to me. I really appreciate the insight.", "I'm tired of \"once in a lifetime\" weather events happening once a month and then being told climate change isn't real", "I still think the creepiest part about tornado weather is the sky turning green before everything goes black", "See, you've moved through the same path that every one of these arguments goes. You make bad points, you realize your points are bad but instead of actually admitting being wrong, you double down and decide that I must be wrong because you can't actually find a way to disprove my argument.\n\nThis exact same argument repeats an unknowable amount of times with every new disaster, and every time it's even more aggressively stupid because it's being done when you can [see that it clearly is happening and is very real](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/07/10/world/10canada-fire2/merlin_190618386_cde264d9-5e3a-47ee-8e09-9bbc196116c9-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp) and any intent to dissuade from it being true is a bad argument, because it's detracting from the problem, belittling it.\n\nAnd I'm not going to let you, even if I look like a deranged lunatic, because this is going to kill all of us.", "Good call", "Yeah it's either that or theres snow where there wasnt before. I have friends around the country and everyone has the same stories of shit changing dramatically since we were kids.", "But…. I never was against climate change being a real thing. When did I say that? You people all just want to argue for climate change because this is Reddit. I am just saying one single disaster cannot be proven to be directly caused by any single factor. It’s gotten blown way out of proportion. Stop freaking out.", "Fyi, the word you're looking for is anthropogenic.", "in all honesty fuck that place...", "Nah you’re just insufferable", "Hope it didn’t hit Tyler1’s trailer", "See, this is another shithead argument, but you can't trick me because it's the same one you people always use.\n\n\"I never said\" is just a verbal attachment for you to say the thing you think without saying you actually said it. You want to say I'm \"freaking out\" like I'm sitting here turning red and exploding with the fury of a thousand angry redditors, but all I've done is disprove your argument, and call out your bad faith strategies to give yourself a free out for being wrong.\n\nYou want to paint me as insane, driven by a lust to be right so you can dispel my argument, pretend you weren't just arguing the thing you were and move on, feeling right. \n\nYou aren't.", "Up on Chicago the winds were insane. I honestly thought my windows were going to broken. Can’t imagine how much worse it was where the tornados hit :/", "Lol Jesus dude idk what you’re talking about. But you seem angry and should get help. Hugs bro.", "even a small - when you've never experienced one before - scared the shit out of me, popped my adrenaline.\n\nWas in japan, pretty high up.\n\nIf you've ever had that anxiety panic attack where you get up from bed straight up and just have to move for some reason and am constantly thinking about ok need to breathe in now because it doesn't feel automatic anymore. The swaying of the building just made my mind think oh shit balance is bad. and i'm sure it was a tiny as fuck one i couldn't imagine a real shaker in a high rise in tokyo. scary", "Ope sorry bout that", "By far the most realistic encounter in that whole movie.", "You won't win, I'm not giving you your final message so you can feel like you owned da \\_\\_\\_\n\nI will literally waste my entire night doing this. You want to argue that Global warming isn't real, and how you totally believe in it being possibly real, but we can't prove this one was caused by it, just how it's done every single time, smugly sitting behind a bad argument so you can then immediately escape the situation with a smirk and a clever final word, as if you were a cartoon character.\n\nBut you won't win. You won't get your out, the credits only roll when you give up.", "Like the blizzard Hawaii had last week?", "Mayfield, KY is close to Missouri. Is this the same tornado?", "What I'm saying is most hurricane warnings are stay off the coast, come inland, cover windows and have medication food water. But if the hurricane is serious enough, it can literally be a massive tornado and you're just stuck in the middle of it. Thankfully Florida code is great since Andrew, but if you had older construction or a lower lying area(Louisiana) you can be in serious trouble.", "Except I never said global warming wasn’t real. You’re clearly messed up. All I said was one single event cannot be said to be definitively caused by global warming.", "Yes. The data gathered from buoys that had cat 3 and cat 4 hurricanes pass directly over them seems to indicate that a significant wave height of 50 or 60 feet is basically par for the course in hurricanes of this strength. Of course in storms of this size there are usually hundreds or even thousands of “rogue waves” occurring as well, and these will easily exceed 100ft. As far as I’m aware we don’t have an equivalent dataset from inside a cat 5 storm, so there are likely bigger waves still.", "Blizzards can be absolutely devastating. Look up the 72 Iran Blizzard. 4k plus deaths", "For the record that wasn't me", ">People that don't live in California overreact about earthquakes and wildfires.\n\nI live within a 3 hour drive of where multiple massive fires burned down millions of acres of bushland here in NSW back in 2019 and I had zero worries about my place burning down from those fires. The only issue I had was months of smoke blowing over from the fires.", "They're the result of Mother Nature saying \"surprise motherfucker!\"", "Literal nightmare. Sometimes nature reminds us we're totally at her whim.", "That's about 50 miles south of where I live", "I was at the epicenter in Guánica, Puerto Rico for the Jan 6th and 7th earthquakes in 2020, a 5.8 the first day and a 6.4 the next, both before dawn. Everything breakable broke, glass, mirrors, drawers flew out of dressers. I hugged my mother until it ended, then dragged her ass out to the street. A landslide blocked the only road to the peninsula we were on. When it was cleared and we came into town, so many buildings were destroyed. A school collapsed like an accordion. The aftershocks were traumatizing, smaller earthquakes every 30 minutes or so for days. After the 6.4 surpassed the first 5.8 everyone was stuck wondering, every 30 minutes, if this would be the big one.\n\nTwo months later, in my small Nashville apartment, I missed the EF3 tornado on March 3rd that killed 25 people by about a mile. It came so quick, there were no sirens or alerts, just my mom waking me up balling on the phone from the west coast where she'd seen the news. It was so eerie seeing the Basement East venue obliterated, small loved restaurants gone, and a sea of blue tarps and destruction. \n\nEarthquakes definitely impact more people and are more traumatizing over a greater area, but tornadoes are quickly a death sentence. 2020 was a hell of a year.", "I've seen that and it's an amazing video. That guy had serious balls, but it's also tragic because he's recording the oncoming death of his own wife, whom he wasn't with in her last moments.", "I explained this to you, but you clearly you weren't reading, let me do it in simpler words.\n\nYou are making that argument as a form of protection, not because you actually believe in it. If you say \"I'm not \\_\\_\\_ is \\_\\_\\_, but\" you are actually saying that's what you believe unless you prove that by stating your actual view.\n\nYou aren't doing that, you're just giving the impression that it might be, so if you get called out as what you are, the illusion of \"I'm not one, bro I just argue that maybe it's not real\"\n\nIf you have somehow continued to make this argument without ONCE having actually said \"I know its real\", then you don't.", "Say fucking what now?", "This is what I mean when we say you can never predict the weather in Missouri. Straight up scary stuff.", "I know. Just wanted to address that person.", "What you are saying makes less and less sense dude. Have a good one.", "Horrific", "Ah, the capitalist dilemma of efficiency vs loss of life", "Something like a foot of snow and 100 mph winds at the peaks of the mountains. Heavy rains and strong winds leaving areas of flooding on lower parts of the islands. The only other state that had accumulating snowfall was Alaska.", "I agree just providing some context for why basements aren't commonplace.", "I don't know if it is just me but IMHO tornados are one of the most scariest natural disasters that we see on earth. Earthquakes/hurricanes/cyclones can be built protectively against and the latter two usually have plenty of warning, volcanos give plenty of warning when they are about to erupt, tsunamis generally have warnings, bushfires/wildfires can be avoided but tornados just don't give a fuck and will rip through anything in their way. Human civilisation (towns/cities/etc) in the way? Nah, we'll just fuck that up with very little in the way of notice.", "Not sure if this makes any sense, but maybe that's because during daytime tornadoes are usually easier to track compared to nighttime? Or maybe tornadoes just like to fuck everyone up at night idk", "I think the worst part is that this statement is being made with full understanding of what they've said, but here they are anyway. It's easier to not think too long on things like this, because it makes them realize they feel bad and it's easier to ignore that their arguing a hundred people have died in a few hours and it was clearly Zeus upset that some women didn't let him have sex with her (mainly due to Zeus appearing as a Camel)\n\nI know someone will come down this chain, because I totally do that too when I see one of these bitch-fights. How are you doing? You enjoying yourself, excited for when this comment sparks another twenty messages? I don't even know if you'll agree with me or Mr. Monstercock over there, but I hope you enjoyed it.", "The cost of living is a little higher than the surrounding area, but still much better than almost anywhere else in the country. If you’re looking for slightly cheaper COL is a little less in Jackson/Scott City etc. You’ve probably looked into it already but if you haven’t, I’d suggest it", "This monster came 3 miles from hitting my town.", "I generally say fuck it and sleep through bad weather. If it’s gonna take me out it’s gonna take me out. Might as well go while I’m sleeping. 🙃", "With darkness preceded by an exploding transformer", "The mind flayer", "”very grounded woman”", "I'm definitely not a storm tracking expert, but maybe something to do with air pressure differences between day and night? Honestly, no clue, but I have experienced more nighttime severe weather than daytime. Though, I've only lived in Alabama and Tennessee, so there's that as well.", "im intrigued. what is it you do?", "One set of hands doing something is better than 1 million hands folded in prayer.", "A rain shrouded tornado while driving across the country and not listening to the radio is up there on weather worst case scenarios. Unless you get the emergency text (and your phone is working), how would you know?", "Scary, but know what is even more scary? When you are a kid and don't understand about Tides, and you go down to tide pools, running around looking in them, snorkel down in them, then find a area that you can swim under the rocks and find air pockets, so you just having a good ol time diving around under all these rocks...\n\nwhy is the water getting colder you think to self, kind of got murky too, better go up to see. Except air pocket is gone..frantic swim down short rock tunnel, pop up the tide pool...that turned into a ocean. Lucky for me it wasn't a bad part of ocean when tides are crazy, but i walked a good 100 feet back to shore with water up to knees. But the panic feeling when you look around and nothing but water is enough to make you scared when young.", "Assuming you can pull off and park without crashing, a car isn't the worst place to be during an earthquake. It gets really scary when you're in a building and the walls are suddenly wobbling, everything is falling off the walls and smashing, and you're pretty sure you're about to be crushed under 50 tons of rubble.", "You actually can stop them, it's just because they are so unpredictable, and it's just to costly and risky.", "Yeahhhh I saw that after I posted figured I'd leave it in.", "i was about 7 years old when the northridge earthquake hit in 94', lived in sylmar at the time. i remember having a scary fall in a dream and hitting the ground which woke me up immediately. i sat up very quickly, breathing heavy and looked over at the big TV in our room. it was off the stand, face down on the floor. my skin started crawling and before i could give it any more thought, everything started shaking violently from side to side. my fucking heart was ready to burst lol", "I’m west of STL. This hopped right over us last night. Touched down just a couple miles to the west and just to the east. It was worse on the Illinois side of the river. We were lucky.", "I think he’s saying it doesn’t have to be spotted by a person. Radar confirmation works too and the op was saying main difference between warning and watch is a person spotting it.", "That's absolutely wild.", "Lived in the middle of Kansas for a few years and they almost ALWAYS rolled through at like 2am. I am deathly afraid of tornados now.", "Such a fun movie", "One came through our area, we missed a direct hit by about 100 yards, much smaller EF2 very low EF3. It destroyed a bunch of stuff, we were hiding inside, but when we first glanced outside it didn't look too bad in the dark. Once I actually went outside it was devastating. Houses with roofs completely gone including the 2nd floor joists, roofing material all over our yard, it was a huge mess. And that was a little one compared to this.", "You are dumb. Tornados have been happening all through the midwest and south for centuries. We are just better at capturing and measuring them.", "The damage to the road at the last three seconds or so was crazy to me. We take for granted that the ground is the bottom sometimes.", "well, not like anyone saying yet she should maybe do more standing up, and the fact is she should be sitting for a while after shock and a moderate flesh wound.", "If there were more basements here in Florida I might agree with you but this land is too low.", "i had an asshole friend who wanted to rush our trip and get to our destination in tennessee. wind, rain, could barely see, was very tense. his religious ass basically, \"if the lord decides its our time, its our time.\" \n\ndude fuck you. you're not the only one in the car.", "I live in Missouri close to where the storm started. I got lucky because it was just a severe thunderstorm when it passed over my house. The lightning was actually kinda beautiful in the distance, I watched it for a while.", "They really aren't hard to forecast. And you do live in the place with the most tornado activity in the world.", "This is a pretty dumb comment. You probably don't live in an area that has frequent natural disasters like tornadoes, hurricanes, fires,etc.", "\"have a drink..\"", "Dumb tornadoes don't understand a tripping hazard when they see one", ">sacked\n\n~~New~~ Englander spotted.", "What’s dumb is saying tornadoes have been happening for mere “centuries”. Tornadoes have been occurring on earth for much longer than that. We’re talking geological timespans here.", "Watching all of this unfolding last night was truly terrifying. I could not sleep because I was waiting anxiously for when these cells crossed state lines and inevitably would hit us in the middle of the night. Luckily the storms died down a lot by the time they reached us but I woke to the news of a tornado touching down just miles from the family members house my kid is at this weekend. Night storms terrify me and tornados are so fucking scary, man.", "i agree! was just adding context.", "Who gave this clown permission to use the internet and spew his bullshit?", "If this was from the tornado in Bowling Green (basing it off the title) then it was from a separate tornado than from the one in OP's video. Still, they had an EF3 in that area and was still equally terrifying. I had already lost all service on my phone before that and didn't even know they had a tornado in BG until this morning.", "LA’s air quality has actually improved over the past few decades.", "when I was like 6yo back in Illinois. We experienced like an F1 tornado (which was super rare in that part) that downed a few trees and messed up some roofs of houses. It still haunts me to this day. hearing the wind like that. I cant even fucking imagine one like this.", "The South East, the Dixie Belt if you will. Our tornados only know to come out at night. Everytime I go to bed and it's storming really heavily, I know there is an increased chance I'm not waking up. We've had an increase in them it feels like. Luckily for where I live it was just a tornado watch, my heart goes out to Missouri.", "> If warehouses sent everyone home every time there was a storm it would be pretty inefficient.\n\nThis is not what you want to have said. The primary, #1 concern is safety, always and forever. Productivity should never be the primary concern when safety is involved.\n\n When it comes to safety of employees, the word \"efficiency\" should never come up unless it's \"how can we efficiently keep our employees safe no matter the expense?\"\n\nThe better argument is you don't want to send employees home during severe weather because all your doing is sending them out into the weather.", "I’m a tornado survivor. Luckily mine was during the day, but 11 years onward night tornadoes are my biggest fear. Day tornadoes are bad enough.", "Two tips that could save your life. Helmets and heavy blankets. Most deaths are caused by flying things hitting you in the head and bleeding out from glass injuries. If bad weather is expected out your bike helmets or motorcycle helmets in your closet with as many heavy blankets as you can. Put them on and fasten them. Cover yourself with blankets and lay as flat as possible. For smaller children hold them in your lap.\n\nAlso call someone outside of your area and tell them where you will be. This can help them find you if your home is hit.", "Why he kept driving tho lol", "😲 that's the biggest tornado 🌪️ I've ever seen. And I've seen a few when I lived in Nashville.", "Man you really are making the weather super political", "That is a living nightmare right there.", "I tell people this exact same thing! I was born and raised in SoCal, so earthquakes are something I understand and can deal with. Then I moved to Southern Minnesota, which is at the top of tornado alley. My only experience with tornadoes prior to living there was in my recurrent nightmares as a child. I had no practical experience, so the first tornado warning I experienced was terrifying (and that apparently showed).\n\nI live in an area now that has seen both tornadoes and earthquakes while I've lived here and I still vastly prefer an earthquake to a goddamn sky vacuum.", "would sure be a spectacle to be able to see it moving that fast through those large areas, live, in some drone...", "Dude I hope you get paid like all fuck", "I have lived in the heart of tornado alley for close to 50 years (a couple miles from the national severe storms lab) and the nighttime tornadoes freak me the FUCK OUT.", "Lived in KY/TN for a few years and literally every single one was at night. Ft Campbell likes to set of the sirens if it even looks like there could be a tornado, so those week long storms would be a week of no sleep as we did not have a basement so the roommate, kids, cats and myself would huddle in the laundry room.", "Exactly what I was thinking! Reminds me of the Exorcist when they flashed to the preist in demon form.", "I was in the Nashville 2020 tornado and it hit the building I was in. I was visiting from out of state and it was my first ever tornado. \n\nI remember watching the lightning in the sky that night and was absolutely fascinated. Until the sirens came on and then the lightning flashed and there was a funnel. I hid in the basement as the tornado hit. Still have a bit of PTSD from the experience, I’m not sure how everyone else was so calm about it.", "The first part reminded me of fighting Ganon in the of legend of Zelda for Nintendo.", "Coming face to face with a mile wide EF5 tornado with 300+ mph winds is about as terrifying as it gets. The damage that an EF5 is capable of is on an entirely different level.", "That will get your heart pumping", "Reminds me of Greensburg tornado, but this one looks much worse. Didn't think the Greensburg tornado would ever be topped in intensity, but this one reminds me that there will always be something worse.", "It just makes me worried what chaos we'll get. My guess would be large snowfall followed by heat causing floods", "Is it me or are massive tornadoes not usually a thing mid December in southern MO?", "these large midwestern night tornados are terrifying \nits the sound which u dont here as well in a car in this video. The steady high pitched Squeal", "IT'S A TORNADO VS. EARTHQUAKE CAGE FIGHT!!!", "So how would you conclude climate change is there, what is the evidence you want or think is needed?", "I don’t understand your question", "why are you yelling at us \nwe didnt start the fire", "This must be why Twister is trending on all the streaming services", "Alabama native here and I think the scary part is waiting on it to get to you , you just sit there with your helmet waiting for death or whatever. I remember the Tuscaloosa tornado coming straight for my area and then lifting at my area and then dropping later up the state again . Seeing stuff falling from the sky from a state away is weird", "I constantly see people claiming this can’t be climate change this can’t be it, no evidence. So my question is what evidence would convince you it’s happening or that this was part of it? Bc you can’t constantly say it’s not possible, that indicates you have some expectations on what would be able to demonstrate it. Otherwise you’re just blindingly saying any and all evidence can’t indicate climate change with no explanation other than you don’t like it.", "When I was around 13 a tornado was about 300ft behind my house and we only saw it because of the lighting. I'll never forget looking through the window and seeing that.", "I live in Arkansas and it hit two nursing homes in towns around me", "is he missing the trees for the forest", "Growing up in Oklahoma in the 80s and 90s - we never had tornados in the winter like this. This is crazy.", "Warehouses like the Amazon warehouse are fairly simple construction and pretty barebones. They use tilt up concrete panels and steel columns, which you see in the photo survive. But the tilt up panels are pretty much gone due to lack of bracing for the wind loads most likely.", "The reason you're getting such a severe reaction is because you sound like a climate denier. \nI'm Australian, our country burned so bad 2 summers ago that the smoke wrapped around the planet twice. \nOur climate-denier politicians who are in bed with coal and gas companies claimed \"There's no way to prove this one was caused by CC, it's just a fire and we have lots of those!\"\n\nSure, technically they're right, it can't be proven. But they're using that argument to shut down talks about CC so they don't have to do anything pro-environmental and they can keep taking their handouts from fossil fuel companies.\n\nThat's why people are arguing so passionately against you. We were warned that CC may cause an increase in hurricane/cyclone, tornado, flooding and bushfire activities, but anti-CC's will try to claim that every single incident is \"just a freak one off, this is not proof of a greater trend!\" until it's too late to do anything.\n\nThe same arguments were made by the tobacco lobby, claiming \"Just because that man got lung cancer doesn't mean it has anything to do with him being a lifelong smoker!\"\n\nYou can't prove what caused Imaginary Man's cancer, you can only look at overall trends and try to find proof that smokers have a higher overall risk of cancer. \nAnd it's too early to measure the frequency of tornados, we're barely scratching the surface of what CC might bring.\n\nUnfortunately for you, your seemingly innocent statement of \"correlation ≠ causation\" comes with a lot of baggage.", "I thought I saw a video of a chaser saying they almost always move the same direction", "I'm in Europe so this might sound like a stupid question to people who live in areas where these happen. Do all houses hav storm shelters? Is it a communal thing? Are there warnings?", "I think the worst part is how vulnerable you are while you’re asleep. You may have no idea until it’s too late", "Typically anywhere underground is considered safe so anything resembling a basement or cellar are where you head to. On news forecasts you have warnings and watches, where warnings indicate that a tornado has actually been spotted. In most cases where there is danger nearby you’ll get a text with an alarm letting you know you’re in a bad area and need to take shelter immediately.", "Legit, it’s like i thought they just didn’t “work” at night haha. Like what in the actual fuck, that makes zero sense but i still thought it like a dumbarse lol.\n\nTbf i’m in Australia so it’s not something i ever have to think about but still…such a stupid fucking thought lol", "Severe weather radar data should be tied to gps data and sent out to phones (either by using the phone's location data or by cell tower pings) with a loud warning.", "The tornados are working with the Boogie Men! It's an elaborate scheme!", "What would that be classified as size wise?", "I was flying in this in Bf2042", "It's like the sneaky bastards wait until dark. Night tornadoes are terrifying.", "An earthquake made me realise the earth as in core and tectonic plates are real that we stand on a living moving earth .\n\n I had just entered a supermarket about to get a basket when we heard a thunderous crack and immediately the ground fell under my feet . I ran out so fast heart pounding had to sit because my legs were jello. The rest of the day I walked real slow making sure the ground was solid.. \n\nOther times I've been home on the 3rd floor and you would hear a rumbling like a truck passing only the noise grows and becomes defeaning as the walls start trembling somehow was less scary", "Lol or he was just misleading", "The tornado was god’s punishment for voting republican", "It's because they're sinners and God hates them. /s", "\"The clouds will part and the sky cracks open\n\nAnd god himself will reach his fucking arm through\n\nJust to push you down\n\nJust to hold you down, down\"\n\nThe Wretched, Nine Inch Nails. It's not about a tornado, but that line certainly could be.", "Wow, that looks like it will take years to clean up. I wonder if the community will ever get back to what it was", "Yep. Every time, I cringed.", "Terrifying", "Just such a crazy night. The wind was so loud it was all I could hear. We didn't get much where I am maybe 20-30 minutes of just straight crazy weather. I can only imagine what it was like for these people. The fear, the noise, sirens then suddenly you're picked up and thrown out of your house along with your mother.\n\nIn the youtube comments they said the interviewer had broke down on TV while talking with other families who had much worse outcomes.", "Japan <- Signature look of superiority.", "So... an earthquake during a tornado? (Sounds like a Syfy channel movie of the week...)", "Any chance you can share the video? Sounds scary af. Glad you’re safe", "The stuff of nightmares.", "As scary and chaotic as it is, it sometimes can be better in terms of lives lost. There won’t be hundreds of people together in spots where it can hit -schools, offices, backed up highways, etc.", "From the perspective of a midwesterner, with regards to California I’m not sure if I should be more afraid of the forest fires or the earthquakes at this point.", "I wonder if the toll would have been less if it was during the day. Not sure what time this happened but I’m sure a lot of people were asleep", "It just hit central NC today. I got off work and had to drive home in it. The water splashing off of tires ahead of me was blowing to the right so I wasn’t getting sprayed. It was crazy", "Isn’t this the tornado that killed 50-100 Amazon workers? Correct me if I’m wrong", "I was in my storm shelter for this", "It’s climate change.", "This is funny. I live in memphis and we say the same thing about our giant pyramid (that may or may not contain a crystal skull that may or may not be a monkey crystal skull).", "\"Only so much you can do\" isn't really accurate. If you're building a new warehouse or factory in or around Tornado Alley, you build an underground shelter. \n\nThat's not an unrealistic or unreasonable thing to require for big companies building new buildings in that area. \n\nAn emergency shelter doesn't have a ton of costly requirements like other types of construction. It literally just needs to be a hole in the ground, preferably with more than one point of egress in case a door gets blocked.", "What Fuji class was it?", "I see cows", "tornados in the East \nEarthquakes in California \nPeople seem to think Utah, Wyoming, Idaho etc are states that aren’t affected. \n\nBut we’re sitting on top of a super volcano so there’s that.", "I was so relieved to move from Chicago to California when I was 12 for this reason. I was always so genuinely scared of tornadoes every thunderstorm. They are unpredictable and terrifying.", "I was part of a team of rescue and recovery sent from Ft Leonard wood after the one in 2011. It was absolutely insane when we rolled in because up until then I hadn’t seen tornado damage other than like in movies or news. Best part of it all was seeing the people in Joplin who’ve just had their lives torn apart are coming up to us and making sure we are hydrated and making sure we have food or batteries or anything we needed to keep us going. Haven’t been back since then but next time I’m in Missouri I’m gonna have to check it all out. I still think about what ended up happening to [this dog ](https://i.imgur.com/jtGwpmr.jpg) we rescued and it would tag along with us until we were able to get some animal group that was in the area to take care of it.", "The amount of clips of people going back for their phones or something that was on their desk is crazy.", "They do, at least in Northeast they blast the phones until shit hit the fan. Immediate life threatening flooding is the message I received on all 3 of my cellphones when I was traveling in NYC this summer. They weren't kidding, everything was underwater even though those areas have never gotten flooded ever.\n\nUSA needs to update their construction code. Houses made out of papers stand no chance", "Oh Lawd, He Comin!", "All my Flordia peeps can chime in here. I lived in South Fl. for a couple of years and dealt with a few hurricanes that came through overnight. Scary, and loud yes, but those you had a well known track and warning of before it came in, These are totally insane and very unpredictable. IMO these are 100X scarier. This video clearly illustrates that.", "Me in Ohio: man, tornadoes are scary. \n\nMy dude from OK: yeah, we'd stop at the mall for smoothies and go find tornadoes to chase on a Tuesday.", ">very gradual but inevitable freight train\n\nI hate this description of climate change. It couldn't be further from the truth. Climate change is here. Climate change is introducing higher variability in atmospheric conditions, and you get wild extreme events happening more often and getting more dangerous. \n\n\nIt's not a freight train. It's an extradimensional daemonic Godzilla that's terrorizing the planet and feeding off our greenhouse gases.", "It has always scared me in these captures, how these massive goliaths of destruction seem to move ever so slowly, being so far away.\n\nBut when you're there, in the path, it's absolute sheer chaos and destruction. Just a behemoth of noise, and wind, and just fucking power.\n\nIt's so god damned eerie to watch these videos. It's like in AZ, when you would see the glow of the wild fires lighting up the peaks of the hills. Just sitting there, in a faint red light. From so far away it seems like it just won't ever touch you, but it will. Fast, and hard, and it will leave you dazed, and wondering how it got here so fast.\n\nFuck dude. Nature is fucking terrifying. Fuck.", "I live in LA. Will never forget my first jolt. Seems like they always come at like 1am just to fuck with you.", "Where I live, they sometimes send the same signal as the Amber Alert and other times they've sent me an email (that I get hours after the event).", "Yeah dude, I’m from buffalo and I moved to Nashville because I mentally couldn’t handle the 6 months of grey skies and constant snowfall.\n\nI’ll take the low risk of tornadoes any day", "People go in bathtubs not just because some of them are metal but also they are connected to the plumbing and harder to rip out of the ground than the rest of the house. My friend in Louisville hid in her claw foot bathtub last year with her child. There were sirens but tornado never went into the city.", "We went and saw Twister AT a drive-in and when that scene happened, a thunderstorm legit rolled through right at that moment. It was the most interactive movie I ever saw. The whole movie you could see that lightning in the distance getting closer, it couldn't have been timed better.", "For real. That's a fucking supervillain or something. It is a mountain sized \"fuck you\". Nope, nope, fucking nope.", "Nah dude, you’re the one that sounds like an idiot.", "It’s like a powerful spell cast by an evil wizard.", "I think a tornado is similar. I live in tornado alley, but I was caught in multiple earthquakes when visiting Oklahoma. \n\nWith a tornado, especially in a state where no one has basements because the ground in our area makes having one impossible, the only thing you can do is put yourself in an interior room without glass and hope god doesn’t feel like erasing you that day. \n\nMost of my family doesn’t even bother sheltering when the sirens go off now, their point of view is “if it hits, I’m dead, so why stress myself out over it?”. \n\nI’m the only one who still shelters lol. Though 3 decades of yearly scares does make you fatalistic about it… \n\nlast year I was living in a ground floor apartment and a big tornado was heading towards us. It was nighttime. \n\nI went out onto my back porch and looked up at the sky. I could see lightning and whipping wind but there was no sound. \n\nThen there was a distant noise like a train, but far louder. \n\nI grew up next to train tracks, and this building was actually right next to a train track, and this sound was definitely not a train on those tracks.\n\nThe best way I can describe it is that it felt like something in my hindbrain, my instincts recognized the noise and panicked. Pure horror filled me and I realized I needed to get into my closet instead of staring at the creepy sky like a dumbass. I basically accepted the fact that I might die that night. There wasn’t anything I could do about it. \n\nLuckily the event went around most of my city, but I’ll never forget how freaked I was the next day when a coworker asked me if I’d heard the loud “train-like” roaring noise that night as well. He lived 15 miles from me…\n\nBig natural disasters that you can’t physically escape like this and just have to hunker down and endure are all equally scary, I think. Earthquakes and Tornadoes.", "No shit", "To add on to this, most places where tornados are exceptionally common (possibly everywhere but that's where I live) have very loud sirens that signal tornados among similar weather events. They range from \"very loud high pitch drone\" to \"[Chicago](https://youtu.be/LnkMSmLc6mM)\".", "That takes guts to follow a mass as such. God help the folks that were in its path.", "With all the tornado warnings I’m surprised the candle factory didn’t put their workers in safe place.", "Nope", "The region always has strong storms. The only time I would ever rule out is winter. Maybe. Also according to the weather channel Saturday night was tornado night.", "Did you see it in upstate NY by chance? I vividly remember exactly what you described when I saw it at my nearby drive-in. Interactive is definitely an apt description.", "That is INCREDIBLE footage. The combo of nighttime, power flashes, and lightning then illuminating that giant monster is bone chilling. Amazing work: I pray for everyone in the path of this and every tornado this evening.", "Spring/fall usually. Any time you have cold dry air mixing with warm wet air. December is unusual but might become more usual now.", "🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡", "Night time tornados are the Poltergeist Clown of Natural Disasters.", "Sunlight heats the earth, warming air near the surface, which starts to rise. Uplifts of air provide the energy on which localized storms can build. The energy of storms can peak hours after sunset due to the earth continuing to shed the day's absorbed heat.", "Minneapolis, glad you got to experience it too though.", "Happens every so often.", "Professional anime and lightning watcher", "A few years ago we were hit with 6 tornadoes at night. My husband, being the typical Midwest husband, went outside to get a look. We were lucky. The tornadoes missed us by about half a mile.", "It still amazes me that the Europeans didn't just get back on their boats and pretend they never found this place.", "That makes sense. It was in the 70s for the past couple of days here. The excess warmth paired with an already large front made the conditions just right. Thanks for the explanation!", "So we didn’t get any tornadoes or anything up here in PA, but we did get the tail end of that same storm system - that’s how huge it was. It was in the 60s and humid today. Rainy and extremely windy.", "You can see fire blazing along the big power lines too.", "Like being lost at sea at night and flashes of lightning illuminating huge dark masses all around you 😬", "https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/11/us/tornado-maps-damage.html \n\nAbsolutely insane", "Fuck this", "70s yesterday to lows in the 20s today, here in Springfield Missouri.", "I think he's missing the cells for the brain.", "It’s unusual but there’s an average of 20-30 tornados per year in December. Of those, they tend to be stronger (30%+ EF2+) when they do occur. \n\nhttps://www.ustornadoes.com/2012/12/01/u-s-tornadoes-the-month-of-december-by-the-numbers/", "Who else expects the mind flayer from stranger things to pop out", "Well 1 factory in Mayfield was leveled to rubble and had 110 people in it. Death toll there alone is at 70. \n\nAn Amazon warehouse was also leveled. No idea who was in that. \n\nThat's just 2 buildings", "40s-80s-50s this week here", "https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/11/us/tornado-maps-damage.html", "Please do an AMA. This sounds really interesting.", "Still, the Amazon warehouse had 11” thick concrete walls. A storm that can bust through that is a yikes.", "That would scare me", "The 1991 Andover, KS tornado passed about a 500 yards from my house. I was young but vividly remember that awful sound. Primal fear is the only way to describe it. You can hear the terrible power and when it crescendoed I thought for sure we were all dead. I'll never forget that.", "I clicked your link and, holy mother of god, that is a sound from the bowels of hell. Like, the accompaniment to end times. If I heard that IRL, I’d pray to be raptured. The weirdest thing is that it’s both utterly terrifying and hysterically funny.", "I live in northwest tennessee and the towns around me got hit hard. i’ve never seen anything quite as devastating as my friends houses being torn off their foundations and gas stations i’ve been a regular at be leveled", "Yep, in Austin it was 88 yesterday and going to hit 32 tonight. Luckily this system didn't dip down far enough to clip us, but those massive cold fronts pushing up against really warm gulf air is a recipe for disaster.", "There were two or three smaller ones that ripped through the Branson, MO area. One tracked and ended just feet from my friend's apartment. We got lucky here. No one was hurt. I pray for the people in this tornado's record breaking line of destruction.", "One of the scariest things is when you are watching weather tracking one on tv, you know it’s close, and then the power goes out.", "I was going to say it was the monster in the dark", "I cried earlier over a comment of a guy on cnn crying for his wife who was in the candle factory. I'm not a very emotional person, but this just wrecks my heart. WPSD-TV and other news stations very well possibly saved many lives last night. 2 people I know personally I kept updated once they lost media service (they were in a direct path). We had straight line winds that did damage and it was absolutely terrifying on it's own without rotation/mile wide tornado attached to it.", "I live in missouri, This was pretty tragic, all those people lost there lives just before christmas, I cant imagine how those familys must feel", "Yeah it seems like hurricanes always come in at night. I’ve been through a few and even at a cat 1 it’s kinda trippy.", "What forest fire? \n\n-99.999% of Californians", "Moved to Texas for 3 years and I couldn’t wait to come home to earthquake country. There are few things less terrifying than being woken up by tornado sirens and warnings in the middle of the night. And in Texas, you have nowhere to go except your bathtub, closet under the stairs, or a room without windows. The homes don’t have basements, at least not in North Texas, due to the soil.", "I am so happy to know you are alive & safe.", "Used to work security for oil rigs in south Texas all the way in the boonies and those nighttime yellow brown lightning way in the distance are some of the scariest things I’ve seen. Then it gets windy then it stops silent. Just can’t imagine suddenly seeing the dark silhouette of a massive funnel cloud.", "That was one of the major reasons we moved back to California after living in Dallas for 3 years. Fuck those damn tornado sirens in the middle of the night. Tornadoes happen often and there’s not much you can do if you’re in the path. My current home in LA county withstood the massive Northridge quake in the 90s. Earthquakes are scary, but infrequent, and usually don’t involve mass casualties here (knocking on wood many times.)", "They don’t give a damn. And honestly I’m not sure what exactly a safe place would be", "I actually live in the heart of tornado alley. I stand by my comment. :-)", "Hello fellow green countrian! I had the same feeling. Myself and a couple of friends had bad headaches yesterday -a sure sign of pressure changes meaning tornados are imminent.", "Obviously I could have worded it better. These warehouses do not have people working during tornado warnings. I worked at the home depot in the area, and was at the nearby target in a separate instance where there was a tornado warning. In both cases, everyone in the building was ordered to go to the designated shelter area.", "It’s quite a welcome hahaha \nI hope we don’t get another one anytime soon", "Merry Christmas motherfuckers", "I thought the people in twister figured this whole tornado thing out with those balls.", "Bend over, reach down, grab your ankles, and kiss your ass goodbye?", "This last week has been some big wind storm events where I’m at in WA! I know that there have been a very few amount of tornadoes that touch down here, at least since I have been living here. \n\nHurricanes are no joke but we had evacuation routes all along the highway in Georgia. Plus I feel that the early warning and monitoring of the storm puts a slightly greater advantage in terms of planning and survival. Natural disasters of any sort always has me nervous when indicators are pointing to a potentially devastating event.", "Please explain, this sounds interesting", "Their prob Republican more so because of these tornados.", "\"Hopefully theres no one on the highway down here\"\n\n<drives on the highway down here>", "I could see the reasoning on that. After seeing how some houses are plumbed up close though, I'm not sure it would give me any more confidence.", "Nuke them from orbit.", "As someone who grew up in that area and still has family there. Yea. This. Also, theres a fun joke about the Bootheel. If you cut it off and made it part of Arkansas you’d raise the total IQ of both states.", "Plains tribes must have some fucked up stories.", "Mindflayer", "I was driving home from a friends house on a stretch of highway I’m very familiar with. I had noticed some wall clouds and was trying to watch the road, and watch for tornadoes. It was daytime. There was a cop a half a mile up the road blocking traffic. Once the cop moved, almost immediately there was debris on the highway and overturned vehicles. There was a huge tornado that passed right by me and I never really saw it because it was so rain wrapped. \n\nI’ve been raised in tornado alley all my life. We’re the ones who stand outside and watch the sky…even still, that was a very terrifying moment for me. Had that cop not been there, more people would have gotten hurt.", "That is crazy!!! So scary. It is like a horror movie that when the lights come up it is closer. Prayers to all those impacted.", "So is everyone in Missouri dead?", "That’s ominous as fuck.", "Looks like damn Godzilla intro fuck that’s scary", "Having lived through the 6.4 and 7.1 in California in 2019, you’re so ridiculously wrong. You clearly have NO idea what an earthquake can be like.", "Nah, sell the movie rights. Dante's Cheeks or something.", "Seems to be a 4", "There is warning but people brush it off because 9/10 times nothing happens. Like the super cell doesn't just materialize out of thin air, there will be tornado watches in effect in advance but no one really does anything unless the sirens are going off and even then I know people that don't go down to the basement either.", "Not our first or our biggest", "Now I know where Stranger Things got its inspiration for the Mind Flayer", "Another fuck you is dropping flash lightning every few seconds like a horror film, so you can see how big the mf is", "Where the hell do you work? Jupiter?", "How often does the US get tornadoes in the winter?", "Tornadoes are, I would say, hands down the \"safest\" natural disasters. They are kind of small and generally short lived. The chances of you ever experiencing one in person are low. A hurricane in florida though? Or an earthquake near an active fault line? Most natural disasters are a lot more dangerous over a large area.", "I wish! 😁\n\nFriend of my wife lived in London for a bit and she loved it. Thinking maybe I should also do the same but my mum would probably flip.", "It’s the pipes. They’re anchored no matter what. I feel like clawfoot dense tubs are common around here too. Even in tiny row houses. A bathtub is of course last resort. \n\n[this article mentions both](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/01/24/a-woman-flew-through-a-tornado-in-a-bathtub-and-survived/)", "Hey I am in the Burbank- Glendale area and agree 100% about the difference.", "You got me fucked up.", "Yeah the tornado made me think of Godzilla. \n\nAnd ancient myths. \n\nImagine the terror of _not knowing_ what it is. Or why it's coming.", "My cousin was trying to convince me he would rather deal with a place with constant tornadoes over hurricanes. I understood him from a total destruction standpoint, but a hurricane will never just surprisingly kill you in your sleep.", "Then the fan blades slowly come to a halt...", "Ah fuck, I'd forgotten about the ice storm of 98.\nWe didn't have school for like 2 months after that shit.\nI was living in central Maine when it hit. 2.5 inches on every exposed surface. Even the individual blades of grass were covered in ice.\n\nIt was so eerie to have the whole ass city be pitch black except for the occasional copper green glow on the horizon as substations and transformers blew.", "Born in the midwest and my wife and I agree we don't like earthquakes because there's no where to take shelter. The ground is shaking. Nado's we go to the basement after looking at it for a while with our slippers and robe on while your wife calls you back downstairs.", "That is the worst natural disaster I’d ever want to experience. The fact that Mother Nature could just randomly obligate anything in its path with no stopping power. Not even fair", "3:27 I thought a smooth back track was fading in", "They're not super frequent but do occur. https://www.spc.noaa.gov/wcm/permonth\\_by\\_state/", "imagin chasing night tornadoes…", "But make sure it is waterproof because if there is a lot of rain it might flood your shelter and you drown.", "I would love to live in the North around that area, but I can’t deal with tornados. That’s why I live in Houston, we have a shit ton of tornados, but they’re all F0s & F1s that barely make landfall. Hell, I saw my first storm shelter a few weeks ago up in Amarillo.", "Time of day is irrelevant. A tornado already is one of the biggest fuck you events.", "My favorite fact of that city is it pops up if you google most boring city in Missouri.", "Yeah some are mild but some will literally knock you off your feet and make it impossible to walk. My sister and I shared a room as kids in the attic. I woke up to an earthquake and she couldn’t get out of bed because the tremor kept repining her leg between the mattress and the wall. I stumble ran across the room and grabbed her by the arm and was luckily able to help her get up. We tried to walk down the stairs carefully but it was impossible do we both ended up tumbling down the stairs to get to the bathroom that our parents had established as the emergency safe room. Also earthquakes are loud as fuck. Even the mild ones can be extremely noisy. Every piece of furniture, dish ware, and decor in your house shakes and rattles at once.", "Lmao yeah I suppose", "Oh hey, funny wandering across a post of yours outside of /r/nfl or /r/KansasCityChiefs, haha", "It’s the only way to be sure.", "I think which is more terrifying depends on a lot of factors. A 3.5 earthquake in a brick or concrete building on the east coast would be more terrifying to me than a 7.0 earthquake in a sky scraper in Japan because those brick buildings on the east coast weren't built to withstand even a small Earthquake while that sky scraper in Japan was built to withstand a big one.\n\nA small, garden variety tornado in a house with no shelter or basement? No thanks. A large tornado when I'm on the lower level of an underground parking structure? Ok.\n\nBut I will tell you one thing. Tornadoes can come towards you and I think that anticipatory period and the feeling of being chased, or knowing that a tornado might be there but not being able to see it can be more frightening than an Earthquake in say California, in some circumstances because in the Earthquakes just come up suddenly and then are over after usually a few seconds.", "How unusual is a tornado at night? \n\nWouldn’t have thought there would be enough thermos activity without the sun", "I hate to be the one, but they are made in a central location and then shipped frozen to each store. It hasn't always been that way, but it's the old story of when the founders pass away and the kids take over, bottom line becomes the only line.", "Nice to know that tornado season is now year round!", "Awesome lady. Quite an obnoxious interviewer though. Is that a standard way for reporters to act in that region?", "I assume they must have had one or the casualty count would be much higher. But I wonder if everyone was able to make it into the shelter.", "lol that's so cool", "Same dude. Over by the Library myself.", "Sounds like they had a shelter", "Wow!", "Yeah it's.... Rough", "I've lived in Florida my whole life so the most of a storm I've seen is a hurricane that causes intense rain and breaks a few branches for a few hours, what's it like living somewhere with tornados? Do you just kinda get use to it? Tornados are the only storm that really fascinate me, despite how scared shitless of them I am", "I currently live in Utah and we just got our first snow in the valley yesterday. It was the same last year too. When I was a kid, it almost always snowed at least once before Halloween, snow season lasting until at least March, but there's usually at least one last \"ha ha fuck you, winter's still here\" storm in April. It felt like it snowed all the time as a kid. Now we get sporadic snow and it's usually not bad in the valleys. Except for these errant snowstorms that have been hitting in June. Which has been absolutely bizarre.\n\nOn the flip side, our once super dry summers are having these weird monsoon-like bursts, with non-stop rainstorms lasting 2-3 days. With our dry ground, of course this causes flooding. It's crazy to watch our local climate change before our eyes and have people still deny climate change is happening. Like they'll comment on \"wow, this winter is really dry again, weird!\" and \"I don't think I ever remember having rain last so long here before!\" But also, \"climate change isn't real, we're fine!\" as our water reserves hit an all time low and 93% of our state is categorized as being in \"severe drought\".", "They can happen at any time, day or night, though per this website https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/tornadoes/ they are most common between 4 and 9 pm.\n\nAnd night tornadoes are more than twice as likely to kill people and occur more often in certain states. https://www.livescience.com/18707-winter-deadly-nighttime-tornadoes.html", "I've been looking at Wisconsin as a place to move, but didn't realize y'all got tornados. Is that common?", "I just feel so disconnected\n\nLast night I was laughing and playing minecraft with my friends, watching youtube, just enjoying my life\n\nI can't comprehend that while I'm relaxing every day, people die. I guess it's not good to think like that but it's just.. crazy\n\nI dunno", "The tornado that hit the warehouse went right over my house before it touched down. The news report showed the rotation passing over my neighborhood, and for a moment it sounded like the wind was going to blow the doors off my house. A few minutes later, the weatherman said they detected debris in the air from that rotation, and it turned out to be the warehouse getting hit.", "Yeah you get used it. Typically you just have it in the back of your mind what you’ll do when you hear the sirens and need to shelter in place. I live in a 100+ year old home so I’m pretty confident I’d be safe, and Im ready to get my cats in their carriers so we can hunker down in the hallway if need be.", "If you’re looking East, you’re probably fine. I’d you’re looking west, it’s time to leave", "Is it just me or does it seem weird? Like I know it happened but that amount of concentrated force for even a few seconds seems unreasonable. Doesn't make sense but damn that is crazy.", "Somewhere there was a couple tied to an underground water pipe hanging upside down just under the eye of the storm.", "Yeah that makes sense, you really only hear about the big tornados so I forget that the huge ones are very few and far between. Hurricanes have happened a few times in my life and I just am kinda like \"oh ok guess I can't go outside for an hour or two\".", "Uncommon, but nothing crazy. Most tornados don’t hit highly populated areas, so usually there isn’t much in terms of devastation. It’s just a horrible combination of severity and location.", "Earthquakes and their effects have literally ended civilizations. It is stupid to compare them to tornadoes. \n\n>A small, garden variety tornado in a house with no shelter or basement? No thanks.\n\nI don't know what you mean by small, but if you mean an F1 or F2 tornado, you would likely be fine. That's enough to break windows and damage your roof and siding, but not enough to destroy your house unless it's a mobile home. In an F2 you could lose your roof, but if you've followed all precautions (even without a basement or shelter), you should be physically fine.\n\nAnd that's not taking into account how unlikely it is to actually hit you in the first place. \n\n>Tornadoes can come towards you and I think that anticipatory period and the feeling of being chased, or knowing that a tornado might be there but not being able to see it\n\nI don't understand this. You're talking about it like it's a monster in a film. You hear siren, you get in hole. That's it, you're safe no matter what. \n\n> in some circumstances because in the Earthquakes just come up suddenly and then are over after usually a few seconds.\n\nYes, they come up suddenly with no warning. You don't have many days of notice like with tornado producing storms. But even the smallest earthquake can affect a whole region. Whereas MOST small tornadoes don't affect anyone or anything and may not even be detected at all. \n\nAnd when an earthquake starts, you have no way of knowing if this could be \"the big one\" or the start of it until it's too late.", "This blew me away...seeing the tornado only when the lightning flashed, fucking terrifying. \nI live in southeast Missouri and we thought this is what we were getting.", "The \"Big One™\" could hit as soon as tomorrow, or as far away as a hundred years from now. It's bleak that our own state is like, \"so yeah, 2-3 thousand will die, 8,000 or so will be injured, about 84,000 people won't have homes to stay in, anything brick is gonna collapse, and all the old buildings likely won't make it. Also, the hospitals that remain standing will be overrun and it will take about 3 months for those with houses still standing to get potable water again. But don't count on buying water because a lot of overpasses will collapse and shipments will be difficult. Plus, well......80% of the states population will be affected and also our insurance covers about $500 million for damages but any quake 7 or over would cause about $30 billion worth of damage. Sooooo yeah. Get under a table and be sure to have at least a month of supplies saved up! Oh, and pay your taxes because the legislature needs raises again.\" It all seems insane, like they're thinking, oh it won't happen soon, that's a problem for other people!", "Born and raised in STL and Farmington (bootheel-ish) and yeah it sucks.", "We are talking about fear, and to many people, a tornado is a monster coming towards them.\n\nAs most tornadoes are small and cause little to no damage, the same can be said of Earthquakes. Most Earthquakes are small, over within seconds and cause little to no damage.\n\nA big Earthquake, like a big tornado, can cause a lot of damage or a little depending on many variables.\n\nLet's say they are bad guys trying to kill you and you feel equally defenseless against both. What is more terrifying? Being chased down and attacked or being surprised and attacked?\n\nThat comes down to the individual.", "Brick and mortar would absolutely be (and was) pummeled to pieces by the high-end tornadoes like what happened last night, it'd only have a chance against the weak end of the tornado scale. I think this site has a good verbal illustration https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/03/22/what-would-it-take-to-build-a-completely-tornado-proof-house/?sh=7bbd3df727ca\n\n\"Thus, to make a structure totally tornado-proof requires that the structure be designed to withstand both the impact of a one-ton boulder being hurled at it at 100-150 miles per hour as well as wind loads of 300 mph or more. This means you need a structure made out of either foot-thick reinforced concrete or two to three inch thick solid steel armor plate. Doors must be solid steel with reinforced frames and extra strong locking mechanisms (otherwise the storm will just suck the door open). No windows.\"\n\nThe higher level of tornado is basically like the fist of an angry god. Whatever it feels like smiting, that thing is gone. Really bad stuff.", "Yeah you basically have to be in a windowless reinforced concrete bunker to hold up against the highest level of monsters like what we had last night. Anything less gets mangled or completely turned into paste wherever the tornado randomly feels like it.\n\nBrick can do okay against hits from the weak ones though.", "tornado hit the historic buildings downtown. Which most of these big brick building by court square were being demolished one by one over the years. I would be amazed if a single one of these buildings are repaired. Probably everything will be paved over and forgotten about. Residents move to other parts of KY etc. Mayfield was struggling already. This most likely is the nail in the coffin, another town with only notable thing being a Wal-Mart, which wasn't touched 5 minutes down the road.", "Ah I don’t think so. This isn’t one of the tornados that touched down around St Louis.", "Yeah he’s right, he’s just being kind of a douche about it. In fact most tornado warnings these days are radar indicated and not generated by an actually sighting of a funnel cloud/tornado.", "They can happen at night (and are more than twice as likely to kill people when they do), but that happens more often in certain areas. They're apparently most common in general between 4-9 pm.", "I couldn't sleep after I thought I heard a train. Fortunately there where no tornados as far as I know. Just strong storms.", ">We are talking about fear, and to many people, a tornado is a monster coming towards them.\n\nAnd I'm saying that fear isnt based in reality. \n\n>As most tornadoes are small and cause little to no damage, the same can be said of Earthquakes.\n\nLook, comparing the smallest ones is actually stupid. \n\n>Most Earthquakes are small, over within seconds and cause little to no damage.\n\nYes, and thousands or millions of people will feel it. Most small tornadoes go pretty much entirely unnoticed. \n\n>A big Earthquake, like a big tornado, can cause a lot of damage or a little depending on many variables.\n\nComparing a big earthquake to a big tornado is like comparing a nuclear bomb to a pistol. The highest death toll from a tornado is in the hundreds and that's really a combination of hundreds of tornadoes in one storm, not a single tornado. Most of the top 10 deadliest tornado outbreaks have a death toll below 200. All of the top 10 earthquakes have death tolls in the hundreds of thousands. \n\n>What is more terrifying? Being chased down and attacked or being surprised and attacked?\n\nLmao, you can't be serious...?! \n\n>That comes down to the individual\n\nUnderstanding danger should not be a \"down to the individual\" kind of thing.", "Another horrifying side is if you're watching on the news and the weatherman is showing you the path its on. While he's reporting it you're watching what some ppl are experiencing first hand. Where I drive to work a huge tornado came thru recently with entire wooded areas now gone & homes flattened. With 2-3 houses spread apart, untouched.", "Totally. That's exactly what I thought. \"I'm right in the damage path now.\" Really? That thing is looking like you are fast food delivery for another universe.", "Like a monster moving in the darkness.", "Tornado is definitely scarier than a monster", "It puts us in our place. Quickly.", "Utahs governing body is like that for everything. \n\nAh, air pollution getting you down? Some of the worst air quality in the world? How about we solve that with an inland port. That'll do the trick. Line their pockets nice and fat, so in a decade they can all afford multimillion dollar mansions up the canyons and away from us poor folk.", "Do other countries have tornadoes or is it just an American thing?", "Thanks for being civil and also providing a source! :)", "SE Missouri from my understanding.", "I actually could not be bothered to look it up, though I assumed the answer was no. So thank you.", "This thread isn't about objective danger, it's about subjective experience...what people find more scary.", "Tornightos?", "Driving through a rainswept tornado with my pregnant wife and young children in the minivan was terrifying. Everything was fine until it wasn’t. Went from a slightly above average intensity thunderstorm to my wife telling the kids we love them as visibility drops to 0 and a wall of wind and rain hits us with debris flying everywhere. I tried to slowly pull forward into a parking lot looking for anyplace that might have shelter or a basement and I end up pulling into a mobile home park (not ideal). Immediately backed out and tried to go as fast as I could along the road hoping for a better option until I can make out the glow of a neon sign that ended up being a local home improvement store. Parked in front of the building and hurried all of the kids into the store where the employees were huddled in the break room. I couldn’t even talk or open the soda that was handed to me bc of the adrenaline. Luckily about 15 mins later the worst had passed and we could continue on our way. I always thought I would have time to just drive away from one but really if you’re in the path of a tornado there’s not much you can do to drive away from it, especially rain-swept since you can’t see where the funnel is.", "> small solace from nature\n\nSmall solace my foot that’s like seeing flares from an American bomber before they drop a bomb on you.", "Is that why he cried out in frustration?", "Is this kind of like amperage in an electricity analogy?\nLike a wind speed is voltage and gate to gate sheer is amperage i.e. the overall power of a storm", "This is horrifying.", "I grew up in Tulsa and live in NV now, can attest to the midwest spidey sense", "Yes, they can actually form almost anywhere in the world provided the weather conditions are correct.", "holy shit you are stupid", "I'm just gonna stick my thumb up his ass", "Evolution possible?", "Damn, even concrete and brick buildings demolished. 110% going in the basement during a tornado warning", "Crazy stories come from somewhere, and are sometimes true; I've got a few. (Should be a song lyric)", "Holy crap... I live in a country where this doesn't happen as a rule. This is TERRIFYING.", "Along with hurricanes at night. Because they can give tornadoes or just do the damage directly. Either way you can’t see, just hear the chaos around you. Waiting for your moment to go.", "Fuuuuuuuuuuck! Lmao", "Kansas resident, warning on tornados is split into two levels a watch or a warning. a A tornado watch indicates conditions are right for tornados to form, and a warning meaning there is a tornado actively. Weather channels track wall/funnel clouds that commonly produce the tornados. Anecdotally, more severe storms that produce hail (associated with a green cloud hue) are much more likely to produce tornados. People are generally aware within an hours notice that something is possible via weather channels, phone alerts, loud sirens outside or NWS broadcasts. If you’re asleep and miss it you may just be doomed.\n\nThe paths of tornados change wildly and somewhat unpredictably so you may have as little as a few minutes notice that you’re truly fucked, which is why preparation is somewhat necessary during any event (shelter in an interior, lower level, stay away from entrances/windows and keep emergency supplies like a radio for updates, first aid kits and water or food.", "So were the winds of the tornado 303mph or half that? I see the measurement is 150mph towards and 150mph away from the radar station.", "So fuckin scary. At least during the day you can see the funnel but at night..", "The NWS classified this one as an EF3", ">Give Awar\n\nhe's prrobably fire/ems or leo of some sort. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nit's common, spotters for counties exist everywhere. they look for thte crossroads where you can get the least obstructions looking towards the storm front.", "Thank you for that.", "We are almost like the Australia of weather and natural disasters 😂 instead of it being all the bugs and wildlife that will kill you, it’s earthquakes, fires, twisters, and hurricanes. \nBut for real I’ll take an earthquake any day over a twister. You can’t see earthquakes coming like these monsters. For me the fear of seeing something like that is paralyzing.", "In relation to \"hearing\" them before they hit. [There's an XKCD for that!](https://xkcd.com/723/)", "immediate flashback to “28 days later” and the infected soldier outside the window\n\n🤭", "Check out [this image](https://www.e-education.psu.edu/meteo3/sites/www.e-education.psu.edu.meteo3/files/images/lesson9/cp14g_ed3.jpg) to see why this sometimes happens. \n\n“It's true that damage in a tornado's path can be somewhat irregular, so this myth can appear to be true. But, it's not because a tornado skips or hops over one house only to demolish the next. This myth stems from the fact that some tornadoes actually have tiny \"suction vortices\" that rotate around the main tornado. Such tornadoes are called \"multi-vortex\" tornadoes and the suction vortices can cause damage in a cycloid pattern (check out the photo on the right) as the tornado moves along. Damage from suction vortices can be tremendous, and given their looping path, it's easy to see how one house might get missed by a tornado, while another takes a direct hit.”\n\nFrom [this site](https://www.e-education.psu.edu/meteo3/l9_p8.html)\n\n\nI dunno if that’s what happened in this particular tornado though.", "What was scary (and interesting) tag the beginning of this video when the lightning hit was between the tornado and the video operator the tornado was hidden in the cloud cover. It was only when the lighting was on the other side of the tornado did it appear. So it was there for a second. Then gone. That was horrific.", "arizona here\n no natural disasters to fear except maybe flash floods. in the desert. easy to avoid.", "Ill take a Nor'Easter Blizzard with 24\" of snow everytime", "Nooo since when? Last time I had them was probably about 5 years ago", "It depends on where you move! I'm 26 and have lived in Central and southeastern Wisconsin all my life and I only ever remember two or three tornadoes touching down in the two counties I've lived in. And even then, you go to the basement for 20 minutes and it's gone. They're usually not very destructive. \n\nMost people I know won't even bother going in the basement anymore because they've never experienced any damage or loss from a tornado. They don't understand the potential severity.", "You know why. \n\nTo make money for the wealthy living billionaires living on the tropical coasts, far away from the danger. \n\n\nThey probably saw news of the tornadoes from their Alaskan King size beds and went \"Aw man, I'm going to have to wake up early to deal with that tomorrow.\"\n\nThe thought of the workers didn't even cross their mind.", "this happened to me in SF in 2017. no shakes though- so close to the epicenter it felt like being thrown forward and back and then the night was just dead silent- which for a big city like SF is fucking terrifying after an earth quake. \n\ni sat up in bed terrified, my husband slept through it and did a \"that's nice dear\" when i tried to wake him. \n\nit was then i realized in the middle of the night i would have to be the sensible one. Not sure if it's a mom thing but the faintest sound wakes me- him, not so much.", "Missouri to Brooklyn transplant here.\n\nNYC thunderstorms are a joke compared to the shit that hits the midwest. We had two 'tornados' touch down in Brooklyn since I moved here. I don't think either of them so much as blew over a trash can.", "that's so funny, my first earth quake i thought it was a ghost too!", "In the video: Oh yup, there it is!\n\n-PROCEEDS TO DRIVE EVEN CLOSER-", "Fuck both of you. A tornado doesn’t care about a politician. It destroyed a community that will never be the same again. Only stand in solidarity to those who died. I’m a leftist and it’s people like you that make me embarrassed.", "Fuck off. Nobody deserves a tornado through their neighbourhood. Your comments are doing more harm then they are good.", "Fuck you. Nobody deserves a weather disaster just for voting for a party you disagree with. I’m a hard leftist and it’s people like you who make me sick", "i did disaster relief after joplin- but was stationed in Alabama. \n\n\nIF YOU ARE IN A DISASTER AREA PLEASE READ THIS.\n\nThe devestation after these things is insanity. What really scares me is just how bad FEMA was after joplin and how bad it'll likely be now. The resources to help people after a disaster like this just aren't there. Church groups are everyone's best bet. I was hired by FEMA and FEMA was so disorganized we dead ass found a church group that consisted of guys who were used to traveling to tornado disaster areas and helping people and stuck with them. FEMAS primary objective for us was to have us inform people in rural areas who just lost their house and family and had no internet or phone that they \"waited too long to make an insurance claim and they'd have no money coming to them\" \n\nwe refused to be notice, because then they could argue that there was no notice and hopefully win whatever case against insurance and instead went with the church group, cleaned debris, got food to people and started rebuilding homes. \n\nYeah after that experience I have absolutely no faith in the government and have all my faith in people- no matter what religion- coming together and helping each other.", "Going to be more and more common now that climate change has kinda hit a runaway tipping point", "I know tornadoes can be destructive...\n\nI'm just saying, calling earthquakes mild compared to tornadoes is pretty ridiculous. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_by_death_toll?wprov=sfti1", "Unadilla", "Actually there is a part of upstate NY that is susceptible to earthquakes, they’re just a lot more uncommon than they are in the pacific.\n\n[This video gave me the willies](https://youtu.be/Kn2KFC8cX-g), they mostly talk about the New Madrid earthquake (also in Missouri, coincidentally) but if you look at the map they show, there is an earthquake region upstate and in NE. \n\nLooks to be in the Adirondack’s mostly but still pretty freaky.", "lmaooo from the boot this is hilarious & true", "Thanks for the link", "It’s crazy to see the radar technology tracking this stuff. Growing up no one knew where they were until someone spotted them. I watched these move across the map and the weatherman calling out streets. Sure it may not have been always on the ground but that was wild. They switched to the STL airport wind shear radar to get a better look.", "Normally they don’t. They don’t alway travel the whole distance touching the ground. They will retract for a bit. Not sure about this one.", "More dangerous to let people go. You are more vulnerable in a car.", "Radar is very good these days. I watched these cross the map and knew what streets it crossed… now radar can’t tell you 100% if it is on the ground at that time BUT rada can pick up debris being kicked up in the air.", "74 in SLT later this week.", "You are so fucking pathetic, holy shit lmao", "This is insane🔥💯", "I live in California and would rather deal with earthquakes than tornadoes, 100%. I would like to see a tornado one day tho", "but how do those 2 tornados in December compare to the amount of tornados during March?", "I’m a believer in some level of climate change but unfortunately this goes against it. In climate science the Arctic is warming at a much more rapid rate than the equator. In fact, the equator has barely changed, whereas the Arctic has warmed triple or quadruple. What makes tornadoes is the clashing of extreme temperatures, cold and warm. If the Arctic Is getting warmer, this should reduce the amount of tornadoes or at the very least, bring them closer to the lake states.\n\nWhat going to get people to become more skeptical of climate change is blaming literally every weather event on it, regardless if it follows their models or not", "Meaning the bathrooms, or something more? The most detail I could find was from https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rdz9tm/amazon_warehouse_collapse_last_night/ho5izdn but would appreciate any further info", "Do you like it there? Looking at it, it's sooooo beautiful there.", "Ugh right?! That inland port is so infuriating. It's not even safe to breath our air most of the winter, but no, that'll help. We're looking for greener pastures at this point.", "Sun setting.", "That size, that time of year, that time of day… extreamly rare", "At my store (about 30 miles outside of their base in St Louis) it's been longer than that - at least 10-15 years. They still have ovens, but they are only used for the premade donuts and other premixed baked goods. The days of scratch baking are sadly gone along with needing to pay for the skills of a great baker.", "Most Midwesterners will have shelter and emergency supply ready on standby for a tornado, but in my experience we all pretty much just watch TV to see if the tornado is close/headed for us, and if not, just relax with the TV on.", "Are they still absurdly large and delicious at least?", "Huh. When I lived out in Southwest Michigan they were almost always in the middle of the day. Touchdowns there are much rarer than further south, but we would get probably 20-30 sirens over the course of a summer.", "Yes, but I think it's because most of the time, when an earthquake alarm goes off, there's generally a little bit of time, and no one really thinks it's going to be a big one until it is. But really, seconds matter. In the 2nd link at about the 19-minute mark is what always scared me the most- where suddenly the building is falling apart all around you.", "Scary factor Tonightoes>Tordaydoes", "“72 degrees in December eh? There are going to be some consequences.”", "Mother Nature Is Scary when provoked… we NEED to take care of Earth asap", "We probably rely too much on the comfort of always having electricity and wifi… without it we’re all fucked", "https://youtu.be/FSt1ptsOjL0", "I mean seriously. It’s just a red state. They don’t need any goddamn socialist money from no big damn government!!!!!!", "/S \n\nDickhead", "\"Naked...\"\n\"Butt Naked\"\n\n\"Not naked\"\n\nLol", "We deal with Hurricanes in my state, and the very occasional small tornado. Those are scary enough, I can't even begin to imagine living through something like this.", "I didnt say they werent accurate, I was making a comment about how you just new that info and commented. Or maybe you googled before commenting.", "I googled the tornado deaths and damage, but knew the totals for the 2011 Japanese earthquake and several others. I wasn't offended at all by your question. I would've cited but I always mess it up on mobile.", "Yep. Seattle is where it's at. Just live high enough that you won't get affected by the rising sea levels, and you're good to go. We can have earthquakes, but they're way rarer and more localized than a lot of the disasters in the rest of the country.", "Bro I dont live anywhere near where these things have happened and if you don't either I doubt you've done anything more to help them through this other then sending your well wishes, get off your virtue horse and maybe think about my comment instead of lashing out. I thought the above comment was also distasteful so I tried bringing some light to it. Seems you just wanted to feel like a better person from yours, selfishly. You embarrass me for escalating something that best be calmed down.", "Picturing this thing casually crossing the Mississippi river where it's a mile wide and gaining momentum", "They’re less common in pretty much every other country by a lot, and violent tornadoes? They’re pretty much an exclusively American phenomenon", "That’s the south. I mean, the dividing line between the north and the southeast region", "The US is a big place. The south gets tornadoes in the winter.", "Fuck off. Seriously, projecting selfishness after politicizing a fucking tornado", "Not only are you not fucking from here, but you’re lecturing us on what our houses need to be made of? An F5 tornado scours pavement from the ground and shoots straw into planks of wood. \n\nA wooden house insulates better, is more durable than crumbling brick, and isn’t going to bash you in the head like a brick will while flying around a tornado. \n\nFor the last time, Europeans: you are the dumbest, most bigoted and arrogant continent of people in the earth. Your vain attempts to belittle the US out of your own inferiority complex is are disgusting. Stop fucking talking about that which you have no clue. You’re from a bunch of poor, shithole countries being propped up by the US military.", "Yea, you have problems. Go seek professional assistance.", "Fuck yourself", "Ding ding.", "My bad I didn't realize there were multiple.", "Thanks so much for the reply. If I heard that it would scare the absolute shite out of me", "We have earthquake warnings now! In nz and Japan, our phones have an earthquake alert That will go off anywhere between 1-30 seconds before an earthquake. The longer times are lifesaving.", "Only urban LA and SF. About 20% of the state. The desert dwellers obviously. 10% more…..70%? Pffft", "Very recent stats. Pre climate crisis, I bet they were super rare.", "All post climate crisis", "25% of Californians are considered to live in the WUI, while under 1million are considered rural. So, like I stated, a majority of Californians do not live in areas of high wildfire severity.", "The tornado being discussed was an F3. Here's data showing multiple winter F4's in that local area, going back to the 50's.\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/i2II0Rm.png\n\nWinter tornadoes have pretty much been a yearly event throughout all of recorded history.", "Source for such a claim?", "All of the F4 tornadoes in the previous graphic can be sourced here, along with all notable tornado events that we have records for. Browsing the list shows winter tornadoes happening consistently throughout the decades. For instance, in January of 1890 there was an outbreak in the St. Louis / Kentucky region that killed 16.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_tornadoes_and_tornado_outbreaks#1980s\n\nEven climate scientists will say that there is scant evidence showing a link between global warming and tornado activity.\n\n>Will global warming cause more tornadoes? If so, that has not happened yet. Brooks et al. compiled data on the occurrence of tornadoes in the United States between 1954 and 2013 to determine if and how tornado numbers have changed. Although the authors saw no clear trend in the annual number of tornadoes, they did see more clusters of tornadoes since the 1970s. In other words, there has been a decrease in the number of days per year with tornadoes but an increase in the number of days with multiple tornadoes. Why this clustering effect has occurred is not clear.\n\nhttps://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1257460\n\nHere's some data showing overall activity from the 50's to 2014, with no significant trend.\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/TqerRQh.png\n\n\n\nFor the year, 2021 has been well below average in terms of tornado activity.\n\n>There have been 1,192 preliminary filtered reports of tornadoes in the United States in 2021,[1] of which at least 1,079 have been confirmed. The year started well below average with the lowest amount of tornado reports through the first two months in the past 16 years. Despite several outbreaks in March and another large outbreak at the beginning of May, the year remains below-average due to inactivity during April, June, September, and November.[2][3] In mid December, an unusually intense and deadly late-season outbreak occurred, affecting the Central, Southern and Midwestern United States. \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornadoes_of_2021", "Tornadoes are the result of the intensity of the storm cell. Therefore, by definition, tornadoes are related to climate crisis. Just stop", "You're moving the goalposts. You said 'prior to the climate crisis I bet they were very rare'. I said winter tornadoes have consistently happened throughout recorded history, and you asked for sources, which I provided.", "Can you provided incidence of December storms. In no way does that represent the norm, or a variant from it.", "I provided data showing that intense winter tornadoes have been consistently happening since record keeping started, over 150 years ago.\n\nIn 1967, three significant and unrelated tornado outbreaks happened during the month of December alone, and two of those outbreaks produced an F4. The winter before that, a tornado outbreak occurred in Southern California, with two F2's hitting Los Angeles.\n\nWhat exactly are you disputing here?", "I’m disputing nothing. I’m just saying that’s purely anecdotal. Without researching the severity and frequency of said storms, there’s no context.", "Data is not anecdotal.\n\n>Without researching the severity and frequency of said storms, there’s no context.\n\nI dont see how that sentence relates to this discussion.\n\nYou said that you bet tornado activity like this was \"super rare\" prior to modern climate impacts. I provided data showing it wasn't.", "Three incidences over the last 170 years is not exactly common. Can you consider Z size as well as the strength of the storms? My point is, all sorts of extreme weather events are going to become common place. Our infrastructure won’t be able to keep up.", ">Three incidences over the last 170 years is not exactly common.\n\nI provided dozens, if not hundreds, of datapoints, including multiple St. Louis winter F4's during the 50's/60's, so I have no idea why you're acting as if I only presented three incidents.\n\n\"Super rare\" is a subjective description. If you want to describe the historical rate of winter tornado activity as super rare, then that means the 2021 outbreak was super rare as well.\n\nThe point is that tornadic activity like this is not a new development... it's been happening regularly for as long as records have been kept, and at times more regularly than we are currently experiencing.", "\nAre you still here? Fuck off already", "Lol at that simpleton comment. Now I understand why you were so confused.\n\nCheers!", "Holy Fuck! I live in Kirkwood, a little southwest of Saint Louis. I only realized the gravity of the situation a couple days after this happened watching the news about how it may have been the worst tornado in Kentucky's history. Never realized i was so close to being hit by an EF3.", "Hope things are going well for you", "All good here, friend." ]	1,778	videos	Massive tornado strikes Missouri December 10th 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92kCIrkClno	/r/videos/comments/rdzcuf/the_characters_that_inspired_the_creation_of/	[ "Also, Lo Pan was the inspiration for Shang Tsung", "Its Chinese black magic, the darkest magic.", "Main Character was Johnny Cage, sidekick was Liu Kang. \n \nAlthough when you watch the movie again you realize that the main character was secretly the sidekick all along, and vice versa.", "You’ve been temporarily blinded! Quick here is some pink eye!", "Hahahaha. I guess none of you have seen lone Wolf and cub? Where do you think that Big trouble in Little China got them from?", "Me and my brothers watched this almost every day as kids. Brings back so many memories. THANK YOU.\n\n[This Scene is great!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A65Jq6NKdeI&ab_channel=Movieclips)\n\nLove James Hong and 80's Kurt", "Pretty sure they're based on actual Chinese mythology", "Shang Tsung in the original MK movie is so great hahah, with his fancy jackets and sleezy grin. I like how he just consumes all those souls from the fallen warriors and the tournament is like yeah, that's fine, lol.", "It’s all in the reflexes", "Someone aired this on Reddit live and it was actually great to watch again and surprisingly fun to watch online with comments.", "The whole alley fight is amazing. Good guys got blunt bone breaking weapons, bad guys have blades. And everyone’s got guns.", " I’m a reasonable guy. but I’ve just experienced some very unreasonable things", "It’s the black blood of the earth.", "Kim Cattrall needs to do a Big Trouble in Little China reboot... just to put a final nail in the coffin about what she thinks about Sex and The City...", "Fucking love this movie!!!", "Me too." ]	16	videos	The characters that inspired the creation of Raiden from Mortal Kombat \| Big Trouble In Little China (1986)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0vExnq65dw	/r/videos/comments/rdzhg2/survivalist_ray_mears_breaks_down_survival_movies/	[ "I'm unsure whether Ray Mears is really known outside of Britain but I hadn't seen him in ages and this came up in recommended. He's got such a beautiful view of the world.", "Any non-brits looking for relaxing and interesting viewing - just search for Ray Mears. He’s an amazing bushcraft and survival expert and is a complete departure from the gung ho bravado that often plague those kind of shows (at least ones on TV (I’m looking at you Bear Grylls))", "Would much rather be stranded with Mears rather than Grylls. He'd have camp set up, and we'd be sipping pine needle tea in no time, rather than what ever chaos Grylls thinks is surviving.\n\nWe used to say \"cheers Ray Mears\" every day at school. We'd sneak off for cigs at lunch, and use his technique to light matches in the wind ha.", "I trust a guy that has Ray's physique despite spending extended times surviving off the land. His respectful and calm way of exploring how different cultures survive in the landscapes they grew from is also fantastic.", "I'm not British and he's my favourite bushcraft and survival presenter. Loved to see him cook fish." ]	6	videos	Survivalist Ray Mears Breaks Down Survival Movies & TV Shows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3UGUD0qCTc	/r/videos/comments/rdzwph/deadlift/	[ "That is horrifying.", "he ded? maybe tag up.", "Holy shit! Is this real?", "Fiuuuck", "This man just became the definition of spaghetti legs", "Fake.", "Lmfao", "ITT: gullible people" ]	8	videos	Deadlift
https://youtu.be/12d2N6h8MZ0	/r/videos/comments/re0qib/how_to_escape_being_dragged_womens_selfdefense_bjj/	[ "Sounds good, but in practice doesn't work.", "Usually my victims are unconscious or tied when I drag them, but cute vid non the less", "Which end of this scenario were you on, when you gained your experience? Doing the dragging or getting dragged?" ]	3	videos	How to Escape Being Dragged (Women’s Self-Defense BJJ)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UiVWItLdvAE	/r/videos/comments/re118d/tornado_in_hempfield_december_10_2021/	[ "Poor guy. What State?", "This video is 4 years old. Stop trying to get karma on others misery. Pennsylvania.", "Gotta love the sound of the dude hurling in the background", "I think it’s ten years old, not four." ]	4	videos	Tornado in Hempfield - December 10, 2021
https://youtu.be/Frf_YrEEgvQ	/r/videos/comments/re12ja/parrot_taking_nectar_natural_bird_sound_nothing/	[ "Comment.", "I have a comment.", ">\"Nothing Special\"\n\nWatermarks video", "No comment." ]	4	videos	Parrot taking Nectar \| Natural Bird Sound \| Nothing Special but taken from my balcony 3 different days!!! Please do comment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEbUhcX4ATs	/r/videos/comments/re13gu/mayfield_ky_catastrophic_tornado_damage/	[ "Nashville has had two tornadoes in my lifetime go pretty much through the downtown area. They fortunately did not do any significant damage to the large buildings and skyscrapers, but came pretty damn close.\n\nhttps://twitter.com/htmldon/status/1234756043483361280?t=PMqx-BuVd9Rq0DDrmeH_DQ&s=19", "My parents grew up here and my grandma used to live about a mile from downtown. Been there many times. It’s wild to see it pretty much completely wiped out.", "While the devastation is enormous I’m impressed with how quickly many of the roads have been cleared. I had to remind myself that, immediately after the tornado, the streets would have been as strewn with debris as the rest of the scene. \nMy thoughts are with those who’ve lost loved ones.", "Don't tornados usually show up during the summer months?", "This is awful, a lot of cars seem ok - is that the best thing to do.. get in your car?", "Climate change in action.", "Need to go check on parents or grandparents? I don’t think it’s rubberneckers.", "I think they mean the cars survived, and asking if a car is a safe place to wait out a storm", "Climate change seems to be rather expensive 🤔.", "[The Lubbock Tornado](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubbock_tornado) was an F5 tornado that hit the central business district, that's probably the closest one to what you are talking about.", "Definitely not. Basement or underground shelter is best, interior room with no windows is next (bathroom is especially good because the pipes can help block debris). If you are caught outside, lying in a ditch or depression is about all you can do.", "So what happens following this kind of destruction? Is levelling out and rebuilding from scratch cheaper than trying to salvage all these buildings?", "Ive read it has to do with la nina pattern.. it seems to produce more tornadoes", "🔥this is fine🔥", "Having lived through an F4, my heart goes out to these people. I was just a baby, but I've seen enough pictures, and looked at the faces of my family when they talk about it, and what all they saw.\n\nThere's just no way to imagine walking out to that, after the sirens clear.", "We've had an incredibly warm fall so conditions are right for strong storms much later in the year. This storm front dropped a few tornadoes in my area of MO last night too. Not as bad as Kentucky but still a few deaths. Scary stuff.", "Lots of insurance claims and rebuilding. Most of the badly damaged buildings will probably be demolished and new buildings put in place. I'm guessing many will likely do a cost analysis on the claims to decide if it's cheaper to repair or start from scratch.", "I have many questions,\n\nwhat happens to all this broken stuff. \n\ndoes it just end up in a landfill ontop of last years tornado? \n\nWho cleans it all up?", "In some cases could be worse, but in some cases less bad perhaps. A lot of the big skyscrapers and such are going to be built to withstand a whole lot more than your average house. \n\nNot sure on tornadoes, but major hurricanes have hit big cities and usually the wind damage to big buildings is minimal compared to what it does to houses.", "There was an F3 tornado that hit [downtown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Kalamazoo_tornado?wprov=sfla1) [Kalamazoo](https://youtu.be/Pij_D5Pocf4) in 1980. \n\nI wouldn't classify it as a major metro. But the city of Kalamazoo is fairly large, like 75k people, and that's not including the metro area which is probably around 250k people.", "I am not an expert. but these [Tornado Safety\n guidelines](https://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/safety.html) specifically say \"Vehicles are extremely risky in a tornado\". If you are at home, go to the basement or a central room in the house..", "Damn. I used to live in Paducah just a few minutes away. I remember tornadoes being such a terrifying prospect.", "Classic worthless modern architecture: all the new buildings, gone. The one 100 year building left in town? Basically untouched.", "also technically a form of (short term) climate change", "The altar was virtually untouched. It's a miracle!", "Not sure if this is the same tornado, but I have a work colleague whose house was destroyed last night by a tornado in the Bowling Green area.\n\nEdit: I've heard reports that the tornado was on the ground for 200 miles.", "There seems to have been multiple tornadoes from one single storm.. One of them went through 5 states.. It must be devastating for people living there", "I thought elnino is irrelevant to climate change?", "tornado damage is random", "My wife was born there and spent much of her childhood there. We are in shock at how hard they were hit. Devastating footage. 😢", "On a timescale beyond 10 or so years, absolutely. It's a short term cycle of climate change, like I said", "My Dad was in that tornado and survived!", "Landfills become full very fast. All natural disasters fill up existing dumps. Super storm sandy made new landfills.", "Wow! I bet he has some stories to tell.", "I live a few hours from Mayfield. It's still angry outside in KY today.", "Yeah, long story short, he was coming back home from an out of town meeting. When the winds picked up he pulled into a Ramada Inn under the carport. The storm blew out the windows in the car, and the first thing that blew into the car was a 4inch thick piece of foam, so he grabbed it, put it over his head and hit the floorboards. The Ramada Inn was leveled.\n\nAfter the storm a state trooper gave him a ride home. When we got the car the next day we couldn't believe that he survived with only some small cuts on his hands!", "That was the first thing I noticed, too. I wonder if a snow plow just blew through everything to clear a path. I can't imagine how else they could clear all of that so quickly.", "I currently live in Paducah and yeah it's definitely the biggest weather risk around here. I thought for sure it was going to keep going NE into Paducah, but it didn't. I have friends in Mayfield and it really is a terrible situation.", "I think we're only seeing the ones which havent been turned into rubble. There's probably a lot more of those that were basically disintegrated. Once they get a little lift off the ground - it's probably swept and mangled into something that doesn't resemble anything near a car.", "35+ tornadoes in a single storm, one tornado traveled 227 miles", "This. Also wearing a helmet would be a very good idea due to head and neck injuries being a major cause of tornado related deaths.\n\nhttps://www.uab.edu/news/research/item/1960-uab-researchers-say-add-a-helmet-to-your-tornado-preparation-kit", "Probably not a lot of snow plows rolling around in Kentucky.", "Wow. All of the life that goes on here - completely halted over night", "Seems like they got lucky it went through the industrial district. That would have absolutely wiped a residential district.", "It's all gonna get payed for with socialized money.", "I have a feeling places build in tornado wrecked areas would never get much opportunity to grow to become a major city before one hits them.\n\nTo become a major city a certain degree of weather stability is required.", "Times like these I wish that many areas would update their building codes. \n\nIf they are in a high risk area for substantial winds the structure should be made out of steel reenforced concrete. Flood zone - on stilts etc. \n\nIt is emotionally exhausting to see stick built homes year after year demolished by Hurricanes and tornadoes while the parking garages in downtown areas are completely unaltered.\n\nIf we could finally understand as a nation to build sustainable structures specialized for the best and the worse regions can deal - some of our National budget for FEMA could be diverted to public works and updating these aforementioned issues.", "Nah, the court house he is talking about is a brick mansion building, with a wooden roof over the rotunda. \n\nI 100% support mandating charges to the building codes in areas likely to get a tornado or hurricane. \n\nWe could change the building codes to mandate all new construction of homes and buildings must be made out of a substantial amount of steel reinforced concrete, coupled with steel shutters.", "Kentucky has plenty snow plows", "They destroyed, a game cafe of a really cool writer/voice actor. They guy who made the final space cartoon.", "A very small tornado hit NYC several years ago", "Honestly some towns never recover. People just move away.", "I do not believe that is correct, while la nina is a climate pattern it is not related to climate change in an of itself, it is part of the regular oscillation of the jet stream in the Pacific that was first noticed in the 1600s.", "Oh okay. Gotcha.", "You obviously haven’t been to Kentucky in the winter.", "I’d imagine that kind of work needs to start happening immediately. Probably before it’s even safe to do so. Nothing can be done, including respond to emergencies, until roads are clear.", "Helmet actually makes a lot of sense. You’re probably more likely to get hit in the head by debris than get sucked into a vortex like Helen Hunt’s dad.", "> Since 1950, there have only been 19 F/EF4 tornadoes in the U.S. during the last month of the year and only 2 F/EF5 tornadoes.\n\n> The last EF4 tornado to strike the U.S. during the month of December was during the Christmas Outbreak of December 2015.\n\n> The last EF5 tornado to strike the U.S. during the month of December was in 1957.\n\n> An EF5 tornado is the strongest designation a tornado can receive. Exceptionally rare, these tornadoes can produce wind speeds higher than 200 mph. The last EF5 tornado to strike the U.S. was Moore, Oklahoma, in May of 2013. That was 3,125 days ago and the longest streak on record. \n\n> This event was caused by a volatile atmospheric set up that was primed to produce violent and long-track tornadoes. Friday featured unseasonably warm and record-setting temperatures that felt more like Spring than mid-December. This warmth, combined with high humidity, provided ample fuel for the storms. \n\nhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/quad-state-tornado-crossed-four-states-in-four-hours-a-rare-december-tornado/ar-AARIqC4?ocid=BingNewsSearch", "Mayfield KY new motto: \"little more than a memory now\" \n\nFor real though, this is tragic. Stay safe out there.", "The problem is that it's incredibly more expensive to use those building materials. Making housing more expensive is not going to be a popular sell.", "Roof and apparently steeple of a church gone, but there’s still glass in the windows. Tornadoes so selective.", "You'll probably have a hard time telling where the tornado is if there are trees around you. Where I live you only have long distance views at the tops of hills, when we have tornado warnings it makes it extra scary not being able see much at a distance, can't see anything coming until it's there.", "The most insane thing about this is the fact that we are getting tornados in December.", "Gee whiz I wonder what the Kentucky senators and representatives think about climate change or big guv'mint building regulations.\n\nSpin to win Kentucky!", "Imagine a diving board. Every time there is a El Nino or a la Nina, it jumps up yay high. Climate change is raising the height at which El Nino and la Nina are jumping off from. So yes, climate change has some affect on these unseasonably strong storms.", "Yes climate change affects la nina and el nino but they are not caused by climate change. I believe that is what they were trying to say.", "Oh, well in that case they are not correct.", "Huh? La Nina and El Nino are not caused by \"climate change\". They were first recognized in the 1600s and existed well before then of course.", "I'm not saying that. It's raising the total cumulative effect of southern oscillations events. I think the original poster of this chain might have been claiming that though.", "The severity is what climate change increases.", "Yes, thank god prioritized that altar over the 100+ lives lost.", "Yeah, it's hard to see how they'd come back from this", "Says the person who has never been to Kentucky.", "Cost of housing is pretty much divorced from the actual cost to build.", "Spring and early summer are usually when the most tornadoes occur. But it seems like late fall and early winter tornado outbreaks have been becoming more common during the past 10 years.", "I imagine a small percentage of the remaining structures don't have to be torn down. Basically a reset button was just pushed on that entire town. I'd gather up any belongings I could recover from my house and hit the road.", "Genuinely looks like something from The War of the Worlds.", "Tornados happen in December every year! It’s the strength that is something to note though.", "It’s not Florida", "Never. You’re safer in a ditch than in your car.", "I’m sure that won’t price anyone out of the home ownership market given how reasonable home prices are at the moment.", "I belive that's the town hall.", "There is nothing you can build that can withstand this.", "Isn't EF/F5 well above 200, more like 250-300+MPH winds? High class tornadoes have considerably more violent wind and windspeeds than a hurricane.", "que lamentable", "Wow, one day you’re worried about daily life minutiae and the next you’re dead because of differences in air temperatures. It’s not fair.", "What a stupid and insensitive thing to say.", "i am surprised no fires. From busted gas mains and such.", "The [Fujita Scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Fujita_scale#Parameters) is based on damage, not wind speed.", "Helmets are a good idea but it doesn’t stop us tornado alley folks from laughing at the tv meteorologists who wear a bike helmet on tv. If you’re from Kansas you know what I mean. \n\nI moved to Montana years ago and I actually miss the severe weather a lot.", "Enhanced\n\nI miss the old one, I understand why they made the change but I still prefer the original.", "You're a dick. Mayfield/Murray area is pretty liberal, what with the college there. They have anime clubs, and pretty big lgbt community. But all that aside, You're just a dick for having no empathy for the loss of life because they didn't below to your own political party. Be a better human.", "Fuck you liar. Its as conservative as conservative gets and this is not about political parties anymore. Conseratives want to murder me and people like me. These people are trying to destroy our democracy and cowards like you are allowing it to happen by sympathizing for hateful scum that would NEVER sympathize for liberals digging out of an SF earthquake. Call Rand and Mitch and cry to them, see how little they care. Be a smarter human you dumbshit.", "I live in the area. omgcon was held annually in Paducah til very recently. I actually have lgbt friends. You're a moron. I literally am a liberal and vote dem... moron. \n\n\nEdit: You embody everything you hate about conservatives. Seriously, be a better person.", "Why?", "Wow! A con and 3 lgbt people make it soooo liberal!\n\nSeriously, be a smarter person and know your enemy.", "Very surreal to see what is essentially your hometown destroyed.", "Over a hundred people are dead. People are looking for opportunities to dunk on people over a literal tragedy. It’s disgusting.", "I’ll never financially recover from this.", "50 people dead and this is the type of shit you comment with, this is the reason no one comes together anymore and hate rules you dick bag", "Over 100 people are dead and before the millennium is out we're looking at hundreds of millions of casualties of climate change.\n\nEither we wake the fuck up and do something about this or we get our just dues.\n\nEither way expect this kind of shit to happen a helluva lot more.", "Take a look at Greensburg, Kansas. Something like 95% of the city was practically erased. \n\nThose that had the money to rebuild everything, including their house and business did. But those couldn't simply vanished into history.", "They had to. Reports last night were they couldn't even get into the city. Kentucky had the national guard out clearing roads, as well as local volunteers. Aid started coming within an hour of the storm passing, mostly focusing on clearing roads in the short term. Really, credit to Gov Beshear for how quickly he acted. I recommend watching his briefings. He doesn't sugar coat anything, but remains calm and focused last night on making sure people knew the danger for severe weather wasn't over. One of the best quick responses I've seen to such a disaster", "No one is \"dunking\" on anyone.\n\nTo Acknowledge the root cause of a tragedy doesn't lesson the value or the impact of the lives lost.", "Dress for the slide and slide and slide....", "Some of their blood is on Mitch and Rand's hands.", "listen man it doesnt matter, i vote fucking dem every year and ky goes the same like every other state goes. My problem is its like 50 people died and you meme on reddit to sleep better at night fuck off not as in i hate you fuck off but fuck off and get a life man this shit is sad", "Certain construction types are particularly susceptible to collapse. Tilt up buildings hold up their concrete walls with their roofs. The Amazon warehouse collapse was of this type of construction as was probably the candle factory. Contrast with the courthouse in the video. It lost its tower, but didn’t pancake.", "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Oak_Lawn_tornado_outbreak#Oak_Lawn%E2%80%93Evergreen_Park%E2%80%93Chicago_South_Side,_Illinois\n\nOne touched down in Rogers Park in August 2020 - not exactly downtown, but within Chicago city limits.", "Thanks for sharing, I've hung out in Kalamazoo before and had no idea.", "Chicago gets tornados within city limits. The downtown area is just too dense with skyscrapers to really be threatened anymore - a tornado couldn't hit that and keep going.", "I guarantee it's better than the dump you're living in right now.", "This is an F5 the courthouse survived through luck.", "We need to do something to prevent the climate change it's so alarming.", "This is blatantly false.\n\nThe 2011 super outbreak alone had 4 EF-5 tornadoes and 11 EF-4 tornadoes\n\n[source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Super_Outbreak)\n\nI lived through that storm.\n\nIt looks like until this one now the last EF-5 was in 2013. Which was a record lack of EF-5 tornadoes.\n\nThere is usually 1 a year or 1 every other year.\n\n[source ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/05/22/ef5-tornado-drought-record/)\n\nTornadoes are uncommon, but they are not rare. \n\nNote also that the EF scale relies on analyzing damage. There can be EF-5 equivalent tornadoes but they happen in a field and we cannot tell they are rated that high.", "Tornadoes have the fastest winds on earth. Much MUCH faster than hurricanes.\n\nThe fastest wind gust ever reliably measured was in Oklahoma a few years ago inside a tornado.\n\nThey measured a gust of 308mph\n\nAn EF-5 tornado can be 2-3 miles wide.", "Yes, I'm aware, I just hate that an \"EF5\" is classed with anything over 200. If you're hitting F5 status you were a lot closer to 300 before.", "This is utterly horrific. The darker side of nature can be truly merciless. My thoughts are with all those affected. Love from Hampshire UK.", "They could have done Modified Fujita, but then you'd have people talking about those MF tornadoes.", "That was in 1970. Our neighbors took care of their relative's kids from Lubbock for a while until the family could rebuild.", "I remember a little bit about the Oak Lawn tornado. My grandparents lived there, while we lived in Chicago. I was a kid. My mom told me what had happened. There was a skating rink that was hit, killing mostly children. Horrible tragedy.", "We super can it's just way too expensive for pretty much everyone.", "its not called America's sauna for nothing", "That is fucked.", "I could design a building that would sustain +F5 from any direction. Will back up with mechanical analysis data. MFA in design. But would rather see robust Changes to the building code.", "To be fair, it looked like that before the tornado.", "and Hawaii recently had a blizzard. Weather be like \"fuck it\"", "F'ckin Carol Baskin!", "I like you.", "How do we know what storms are from climage change and storms that are just natural?", "Well technically every storm is \"natural\". And even in a world without humans stuff like this would occur. Really what you'll see is \"storms of the century\" occurring moreso every decade.\n\nAnd then every year.\n\nUntil these events are just now a normal part of the weather cycle.\n\nYou can already see the rise of major hurricanes(cat 4-5) just in the last decade. Where once a cat 5 hurricane was a rare destructive occurrence pretty soon it'll become part of each season.", "Tell it to NBC, dude 😂", "100%, apt comparison imo", "Did I really need to include /s? Guess so.", "Unfortunately people don't realize that mother nature doesn't give a f\\ about your politics. Keeping on voting for turtle and the same will happen again and again because he's a man who doesn't care about you as he already got his. It's mind boggling how many people vote against their self interests.", "Would they rebuild again in brick? If so, why? If a town has tornadoes or earthquakes, buildings need reinforcing.", "You're just not correct. They happen but they are pretty unusual, let alone of this magnitude. \"Normal\" tornado season is from March to June. Not only that, one tornado from this storm cell went through 4 states and over 250 miles. Nothing about any of this is \"normal\".", "How did you twist those words in your head to interpret them as someone 'dunking' on someone else?", "completely untrue in towns of this size.", "😆", "I doubt it. Most homes in the US are not built with brick. It comes down to cost of construction. Even homes that look like brick are really just brick facades, not actually structural brick. The building codes have standards for wind resistance but obviously that only does so much.", "I was always kind of astonished that Paducah somehow always seemed to get skipped by the tornados. Is it something about the topography? (Or the river?)", "Let's hope they get more than an emergency deployment of \"thoughts and prayers\" from their conservative legislature :/", "According to the Kentucky.gov transportation site, the state has 70 plow trucks in district 3. I’ll be the first to admit I know next to nothing about the state, and district 3 is the smallest district in KY. \nBut just for reference, the city of Nashua in New Hampshire says they put as many as 20 trucks on a single plow route at one time. \nSo relatively, there aren’t as many plow trucks in Kentucky as there are in other states that experience heavy snowfall. \nFor that reason I think a state like New Hampshire would be better equipped to clear heavy snow (or tornado debris, if that were a realistic idea) from the roads.", "god punishing the racist red states.", "Is it because of airspace limitations that these drones can't get like, large aerial views of the damage? I love that drones are so prevalent, but I'd love to see the totality vs just up close views of destruction. That's shit that insurance companies will care about.", "Well, to be fair, you wouldn't be worried about anything if it wasn't there. Hurtling through space on starship Earth!", "You missed the 'during the last month of the year' qualifier. All of the stats shared here are for December tornadoes only." ]	149	videos	Mayfield, Ky Catastrophic Tornado damage
https://youtu.be/vEbUhcX4ATs	/r/videos/comments/re17n6/mayfield_ky_catastrophic_tornado_damage_first/	[ "Ah, disaster porn. Classy.", "Thank you for posting this. It's a great view of everything. \n\nSadly lots of people have probably died :( there was a factory that had over 100 people in it that collapsed, 50-100 presumed dead inside. Hope I don't know anyone.", "Death tolls have a numbing quality to them. It’s one thing to here 100 people died, it’s another to see the devastation.", "Exposure like this will likely help get more donations and ngo help into the area, which is a good thing. You’ll live a happier life if you stop looking for things to be outraged about.", "Climate change seems to be rather expensive 🤔.", "Mayfield looks like it was a beautiful old town. What a tragedy for the people of Kentucky." ]	7	videos	Mayfield, Ky Catastrophic Tornado damage- First light drone
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re195w/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/re195w/deleted_by_user/	[ "I know his staff members like diddling little boys", "Oooh. Someone should do this for Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Dune. They're all great fiction books, after all, just like the Bible.", "Edgy", "Hi I've just changed my channel to do quizzes and this is my first quiz I will be covering variety of topics it just happens that the bible was my first quiz.", "Can I answer without watching? ('Cause no way am I gonna watch)\n\nA. He has many, many nutbar followers who know nothing about Jesus, but \"believe\" they do.", "lol" ]	6	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1htuNZp82Ck	/r/videos/comments/re1eve/a_tv_series_based_entirely_on_the_artwork_of/	[ "So awesome!", "Yes, I saw it. It's pretty good.", "Amazing series. Beautifully done." ]	3	videos	A TV series based entirely on the artwork of Simon Stålenhag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXeV5cqb_3Y	/r/videos/comments/re2bri/kramer_beat_joe_rogan_to_it/	[ "Unfortunately Joe Rogan is beyond treatment and for sake of his suffering must be put down.", "At least he's going by the logic of having the same symptoms. Taking horse dewormer for Covid is like taking my dog's flea and tick medication because you broke your arm.\n\nEdit: forgot how personal the Spread Necks take their deworming medication... it's cured how much Covid?", "Ivermectin\n\nCommon brands: Soolantra, Sklice, \n\nDescription\n\nAnti-parasite\n\nIt can treat infections caused by roundworms, threadworms, and other parasites.\n\nSo yes, technically you are right. Its not a horse dewormer, its for cattle, pigs, horses, sheep to.", "Lol, you Spread Necks are amazing, and always the same... really unsure what this has to do with Walmart or Juicy. \n\nKeep spreading those lies, and keep killing people.", "That was funny", "THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF IVERMECTIN AS A TREATMENT FOR COVID. IT IS NOT FDA APPROVED FOR THIS.\n\nIvermectin is not “horse dewormer.” It’s a drug that is used both for animals and for humans. Doesn’t matter where you stand politically or how you feel about Rogan. The simple facts are that Rogan took the version made for humans, and that CNN and MSNBC (and others, I’m sure) flat-out lied when they claimed that he was taking “horse dewormer.” They could have fairly and honestly criticized him for taking alternative COVID treatments that weren’t FDA approved, but that’s not good enough for ratings, so they just lied instead.\n\n\nThere’s a lot more info on it than this, but here’s a snippet explaining that from the National Institute of Health:\n\n\n> There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people. Several extensive reports, including reviews authored by us, have been published detailing the events behind the discovery, development and commercialization of the avermectins and ivermectin (22,23-dihydroavermectin B), as well as the donation of ivermectin and its use in combating Onchocerciasis and lymphatic filariasis.1–6)\n\nhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/\n\nEdit: Just to clarify, the point of this snippet wasn’t about how effective it is or isn’t at treating anything. It’s just proof that that there’s a version of the drug intended for humans; not that it’s meant for treating COVID.", "Everything's a conspiracy mannnn. The leftists have sided with the pharma industry and big corporations to prevent you from eating horse deworner. And no one actually disagrees with you, theyre all paid to do it! Ahhh!!!", "So are you advocating to consult with a doctor to get the correct dosage or are you insinuating that all forms of the drug are safe and therefore it's fine to pick it up from my tractor farm supply?", "Why do people act like anybody actually thought it was a good idea to take unprescribed medication. Joe Rogan got his ivermectin prescribed. Stop being intentionally dense.", "The article may say wonder drug at the top, but it only goes to detail how the wonders are related to the specific purpose of parasites it's intended for. Just like you shouldn't take the listed penicillin for reasons other than its intended ones.", "You’re right to make this distinction, but it’s important to a lot of people to dig their heels in on this. I have no fucking idea why. Isn’t truth more important?", "Just curious what Juicy and Walmart have to do with horse dewormer. It's almost like you know it's BS and wanna bring up something completely unrelated to defend it. You Spread Necks are all the same.", "Not only did they lie, they doubled down on the lie when others pointed this out. Absolutely disgusting. Doesn't make it better that most of this site feels the same way as CNN.", "Been drinking from the toilet?", ">But instead of doctors, we should all listen to some wacko American on reddit.\n\n\"The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for use in preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans or animals.\" -[FDA](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19)\n\n\"EMA advises against use of ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 outside randomised clinical trials\" [\\-European Medicines Agency](https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-advises-against-use-ivermectin-prevention-treatment-covid-19-outside-randomised-clinical-trials)\n\n\"No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies\" and \"No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease\" [\\-Merk, maker of Ivermectin](https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/)\n\n\"I’m not a doctor, I’m a fucking moron\" [\\-Joe Rogan](https://www.axios.com/joe-rogan-walks-back-anti-vaccination-spotify-4ab56dcf-b60e-41c6-9c49-fe7f22be7d04.html)\n\n\"Florida Poison Control sees spike in calls from people taking livestock deworming drug ivermectin\" [\\-FOX59](https://fox59.com/news/national-world/florida-poison-control-sees-spike-in-calls-from-people-taking-livestock-deworming-drug-ivermectin/)\n\n\"A police captain who refused the vaccine and took the anti-parasitic ivermectin to combat COVID-19 dies from the virus\" [\\-Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/georgia-anti-vaxx-cop-took-ivermectin-dies-of-covid-19-2021-8)\n\nSo to recap, Joe hires a quack to prescribe him something that has no proof to work on COVID, then touted it as a miracle cure, and since no legitimate doctors were prescribing it, people took the animal version, some of those people were hospitalized or even died. News outlets picked up on the story about Joe Rogan taking Ivermectin around the same time other people were taking the animal version, so he gets lumped in with them.\n\nFor some reason, a few news outlets missing that distinction upsets you to the point where you're blaming \"leftists\" and not the meathead, snake-oil salesman with a podcast or the guy who called COVID-19 a liberal hoax, told officials to \"Slow the testing down\" during the initial outbreak, told us over a year ago \"It’s going to disappear. It is disappearing.\", mocked mask wearing, refused to wear a mask, covered up his own COVID diagnosis for days, suggested injecting disinfectant, pitched Hydroxychloroquine as a miracle cure, despite no medical evidence, and attempted to discredit our nation's top disease expert during the worst pandemic of our lives.\n\nSo now, conservatives are doing mental gymnastics to make sense of a hoax virus, that's also no worse than the flu, which the previous president gets credit for creating a vaccine for, but conservatives aren't going to take the vaccine because it's filled with dangerous chemicals. Best of all, the response to being asked to take the vaccine? \"My body, my choice.\"", "Look, even the makers of Ivermectin say that you shouldn't take it for COVID. Calling it horse dewormer is a bit of hyperbole to show how stupid it is to take an anti-parasite medication for a viral infection. To argue otherwise is just being willfully obtuse", "> Also, it's prescribed for its antiviral properties for covid, not as a dewormer.\n\n>astounding how braindead you have to be to actually swallow this bullshit\n\nYou can not be real 💀", "Fuck yall let joe do joe u do you", "It was a doctor described drug still, wasn't it? \"Is a bit of hyperbole\" is an understatement", "Russell Brand on CNN lying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTtzGhYd0Po", "Hence the big, bold, all-caps disclaimer at the top of my comment. \n\nOf course it’s not approved for COVID. That’s why this whole thing is stupid because they could have just said “Rogan is taking non-approved COVID treatments and talking about how well that works, which is irresponsible and even potentially dangerous given the size of his audience.”\n\nBut CNN and MSNBC decided to remind people why cable news can’t be trusted for shit by outright lying and saying Rogan was taking something not even meant for humans at all.", "There are a lot of quack doctors out there.\n\n- The CDC doesn't recommend it\n\n- The society of infectious disease physicians does not recommend it.\n\n- The FDA has not approved it for covid treatment. \n\n- Nobody on the covid response task force recommend it...\n\nAll recommend getting the vaccines though; for both prevention and symptomatic treatment, IT IS THE BEST.\n\nIf you're arguing for ivermectin and believe in the fringe studies for treating covid, you've already missed the point and should've been getting the vaccine all along.", "That’s not hyperbole. It’s a lie. There are (broadly speaking) two versions of Ivermectin. One is for humans. Rogan took this one. The other is for animals. Rogan did not take this one.\n\nThey literally said he took something that he did not. On top of this, it becomes more clearly dishonest when you consider the fact that some people really were taking the animal version because it’s more easily accessible and affordable, and they’re too dumb to realize it’s a bad idea. Rogan is a multimillionaire with a private doctor that prescribed the human version to him.\n\nTo pretend this isn’t a completely false statement meant to dunk on their ideological enemy and excite their audience is to be willfully obtuse.", "If you are rich, like Joe Rogan is, it's not hard to find doctors willing to write prescriptions that don't make sense. The manufacturer of Ivermectin says not to use it, if this did anything for COVID, wouldn't it be in their financial interest to prove it and get it accepted as a treatment ASAP? What pharmaceutical company is not going to take advantage of a new profit stream? \n\nThe medication is an anti-parasite treatment, is as much a human dewormer as it is a horse dewormer, but it is not an effective treatment for COVID and it is not without side effects. I'd seriously question the ethics of any doctor prescribing this for COVID, just like I question the ethics of doctors that prescribe antibiotics for viral infections or those that over-prescribe addictive pain meds.", "Because the discussion around COVID and its treatment and prevention measures has become highly politicized, so it just so happens that (largely speaking) it’s the Right pushing Ivermectin. On top of that, these people hate Rogan with a passion, and this story - which they were all too willing to believe - seemed like the perfect opportunity to dunk on him and, in a way, the whole Right, by extension.\n\nSo, in short: the truth is not more important to them than dunking on their political and ideological opponents.", "I'm not arguing for the drug and I'm not arguing against vaccines. The discussion is whether it's fair of CNN to outright lie to its viewers, and it's not. If you don't think there is anything alarming about the way they presented this news story then I find that very concerning.", "> I'd seriously question the ethics of any doctor prescribing this for COVID\n\nAnd I'd question the ethics of any news organization that presents a story of Joe Rogan taking horse dewormer", "If its use in a majority of cases (as indicative by idiots buying it from pet stores) is for horse deworming, I'm going to call it that. Especially since ivermectin shouldn't even be mentioned in any discussion regarding the serious prevention and treatment of coronavirus. Anything past that is a non-starter already.\n\nIf someone is daft enough to use a medication that has not been thoroughly tested or approved for treating covid-19 but then cries they're scared of precision vaccines with loads of data, I'm just calling them stupid.\n\nWhat I find alarming is that the big thing you're concerned about is how they call an unapproved medication for treating covid-19 versus what morons actually believe it will do. Let's focus on the substance, shall we? Get vaccinated. Wear a mask.", "It is amazing that Americans have literally no qualms about biased news, it's just a part of their society at this point. Have some standards, even if you don't like the person the news story is about.", "Ivermectin is an anti-parasite, worms are a type of parasite it is prescribed to treat. He got a prescription for a human dewormer, and his listeners out there are taking the same dewormer packaged for livestock because no ethical doctor should be prescribing this for COVID. \n\nThe motivations for taking the Ivermectin are the same misinformation, so it's more than fair to mock Rogan for being suckered into taking a deworm medication for a VIRAL infection. If he didn't have wealth and connections, he'd have to resort to the same \"horse-dewormer\" as the idiots taking this stuff, hence the hyperbole. He's being mocked for his anti-science stance, as he rightfully should be.", "It's amazing how humans in defending their biased beliefs point to minor irrelevant details to deflect the substantive point. This is called, \"reaching for low-hanging fruit.\"\n\nSuch is the case when one makes an equivocal argument around the labeling of an unapproved medication but paying no effort to combating the actual dangerous misinformation of its unapproved use in the first place (thanks, Joe Brogan).\n\nRhetorically, these arguments are pathetically weak and a clear deflection from those of partisan, politically-motivated viewpoints forged on a flimsy house of cards.\n\nFox News and right-wing media lies about more impactful things every day, but proportionality evidently escapes the feeble-minded.", "Yall are idiots. Ivermectin is used far more often for humans than horses. Joe Rogan literally had a prescription from a doctor for it", "What is my bias exactly? I got the vaccine at first opportunity, have never encouraged anyone to take non-approved drugs, don't like Fox News AND I don't even like Joe Rogan. I just find it pathetic that redditors who get their news from CNN, MSNBC, twitter and reddit think they are getting their news from reliable sources and feel superior to those who consume Fox News. This is purely a matter of being embarrassed on behalf of CNN and all of its defenders.", ">And I'd question the ethics of any news organization that presents a story of Joe Rogan taking horse dewormer\n\n\n\nWhy? Isn't it important to combat dangerous misinformation? Are you actually suggesting that media should ignore OTHER media like Joe Rogan who has a large cult-like form of followers who idolize him and listen to his every word...?\n\nUltimately, who did more damage... Joe who legitimized an unproven, untested, unapproved treatment instead of doing what he should've done and got the vaccine... Or calling something that for its majority of times used, treats parasites in horses...? Hmmm....", "It's akin to trying to demonize someone by saying they drink a liquid used to wash cars and referring to water", "Then why do people feel the need to go as far as calling it horse dewormer?", "Nope, it's being annoyed at how much effort you put into something as petty as this without actually being concerned about Rogan legitimizing bullshit medicine and the repercussions from that.\n\nShow me in your comment history lambasting right-wing media for such dangerous misinformation, oh enlightened centrist. Please.\n\nShow me where there are studies indicating CNN is as bad as fox news with misinformation (good luck, for you'll find fox news is worse).", "Because why not? Take unapproved medication overwhelmingly used for deworming horses and parasites, get laughed at and mocked. Seems reasonable.\n\nAnyway, this is the wrong question.\n\nThe right question is, why take an unapproved and understudied medication you heard by word of mouth, but not take the clinically approved precision vaccine proven to work and accepted by the vast consensus of experts?\n\nIn the words of the doctor from I, Robot: \"that, detective, is the right question.\"", "Well-said. Users here seem like trolls. Apparently they'd blindly take a nutob like Dr. Oz's advice without consulting more credible experts.", "So you really don't see any problem with Joe Rogan being prescribed a drug for humans by a doctor and then CNN making a story about him taking horse dewormer? That is acceptable journalism to you?", "What CNN discussed was a net-positive and got less people killed (arguably saved lives) than Joe Rogan's rhetoric.\n\nI would rather focus on the big fish than reach for low-hanging fruit. Now, again:\n\n- Show me in your comment history lambasting right-wing media for such dangerous misinformation, oh enlightened centrist. Please.\n\n- Show me where there are studies indicating CNN is as bad as fox news with misinformation (good luck, for you'll find fox news is worse).", "1. I only said you have no reason to feel superior because you are not concerned with accurate and reliable news, same as any fox news viewer.\n\n2. I have no interest in proving that I'm left-wing enough for you.\n\nI'm glad that you've spun it into being about saving lives, grossly lying about Rogan's character was just a byproduct of them being heroes. I see now. Your country and your tribalism is a joke", "Look at you, more concerned about CNN calling an unapproved medication horse dewormer despite it being used mostly for that... Instead of the guy who gave false medical advice, had to backpedal, didn't get the vaccine, and then took bad medication...\n\nThat's definitely not good media for his listeners. Your priorities are pathetically out of whack. Can't even be honest with your beliefs; have to hide behind anonymity and concern-troll. Disgusting coward.", "It's not overwhelmingly used for deworming horses. That's just one of the many applications. That's like calling water a \"chemical used to wash cars\" \n\nIt's literally been used to \"improve the lives of billions of people throughout the world\". It is also \"astonishingly safe for human use\".\n\n If you want to discuss the efficacy against covid that's another conversation. I'm not arguing for ivermectin being used to treat covid, I'm arguing against the argument of calling it just a horse dewormer because that is a malicious and unnecessary lie that makes you lose credibility \n\n\n\nhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/", "You’re dodging the point. \n\nThere is Ivermectin for humans.\n\nThere is Ivermectin for animals.\n\nRogan took the version for humans.\n\nCNN, MSNBC and others said he took the version for animals.\n\nThat’s it.\n\nAs I already stated, they could have rightfully criticized him for taking a treatment not approved by the FDA, that was intended for something else entirely. Instead, they lied and said he took horse dewormer. He did not.", "Honestly I wouldn't give a fuck if I myself used it for its clinical application in humans that is treatment of parasites and lice. If someone called it horse dewormer, go for it. It really doesn't concern me.\n\nFor the mere fact morons actually went to pet stores and purchased it... And those pet stores had to subsequently put signs up saying it's not to be used for treatment of covid... I'm calling it that just to mock those stupid people.\n\nThere is no \"other discussion\" for ivermectin and covid-19. It's not approved. Period. The vaccine is overwhelmingly more effective. Period.\n\nJoe Rogan's misinformation possibly got listeners killed. CNN possibly saved lives.", "Russel Brand is super hypocritical here - he calls out the media for having some coordinated conspiracy where they push an agenda without reasonable allowing opposing viewpoints in - yet he does the same evaluating them. He makes a lot of unfounded claims and states them as fact - they are a lot of opinions I agree with actually - but I find it frustrating that he has as much as a bias and viewpoint as the CNN panel. \n\nAlso the whole treating the media as one monolithic entity whose motives can be neatly parsed really undermines his own credibility and exposes his own biases. \n\nShame because he could be a much needed voice of reason - but he seems to be following rogans playbook here \n\nHe doesn't remotely hold Rogan to the same level of scrutiny - we all make subtle editorial choices of how we present information - Joe Rogan for example tries to minimize his own responsibility by claiming a news network is lying about a \"comedian\" - a moniker that he has long outgrown but that he uses to shrrk accountability for the fact that he has substantial influence as a source of information and the responsibility that comes with that", "Things are worse than I thought. I thought there would always be a threshold where logic would prevail, but this definitely crosses where I thought it would be.", "You do realize that you are comparing Joe Rogan to CNN, right? I hold CNN to a much higher standard than Joe Rogan but you don't apparently.", "Saying Joe Rogan took horse dewormer is a lie. Period.", "Really focusing on the big fish, are ya buddy? lol\n\nI'm going to keep calling it horse dewormer until morons stop taking it for its unapproved purpose... You do you.", ">You do realize that you are comparing Joe Rogan to CNN, right? \n\nYes. \n\n>I hold CNN to a much higher standard than Joe Rogan but you don't apparently.\n\nr/SelfAwareWolves\n\nAnd therein lies the problem:\n\n- (a) that you don't hold them to equal standard at minimum, and, \n- (b) your admitted double-standards doesn't account for the severity of the misinformation presented (misnaming versus medically dangerous advice), and \n- (c) that many in fact listen and trust a nutjob like Rogan more than CNN in the first place, all the while holding him to a lower standard.\n\nAnyway, I'm content with the integrity of my argument at this juncture. I've better things to do. Take care.", "Clearly spreading your lies about horse dewormers doesn't only not work, it's counter productive. It makes cnn and people like you look like dishonest assholes and lose credibility about the things you are actually correct about, like ivermectin shouldn't be used to treat covid. You are part of the problem", "I am aware he took the human version due to his wealth and influence, and I would still mock him by saying he took \"horse-dewormer\" because he had the same faulty reasoning as those getting the drug from farm stores, just I would mock anyone else taking Ivermectin, regardless of where they procured it. It's an idiotic choice, and I have no problem with lumping him with the idiots taking horse paste, because the only difference between them and him is his access to a quack doctor. I am choosing to exaggerate to make a point, because no matter how you look at it, this idiot took dewormer to treat a virus, and that deserves ridicule.", "You’re choosing to lie. He didn’t take horse dewormer. That’s a different version of the drug. Again, it’s especially misleading because there really are people who took the animal version.\n\nThat’s not hyperbole. It’s a false statement. Period.", "Might I advise putting more time in actually combating bullshit anti-vaxx / anti-mask propaganda and less in nitpicking the mockery of an unapproved use for medication when more effective treatments are out there?\n\nThat, of course, is under the assumption you actually give a shit, admittedly.", "It's not nitpicking. It's a blatant lie that is easily disproved. Why would anyone listen to anything you have to say when it's obvious you are a liar? \n\nShit like this is the exact reason why this has become so polarized and the other side has become so difficult to reason with", "Still focused on the little fish when lies from the right side are killing people, I see. How strange.\n\n(hint: it wasn't liberal media that told the poor morons to take an unapproved medication used for parasites for a virus, lmao)", "> Joe Rogan for example tries to minimize his own responsibility by claiming a news network is lying about a \"comedian\" - a moniker that he has long outgrown but that he uses to shrrk accountability for the fact that he has substantial influence as a source of information and the responsibility that comes with that\n\nThis is a nonsense take. Joe Rogan never claims to be an authority on information and news, which is the opposite of many of the media outlets Brand is referring to. He is very upfront about who he is and who he isn't.\n\nHe's not a news organization. \nHe's not a politician. \nHe's not a scientist. \nHe's not a doctor. \nEt cetera. \n\nRogan isn't getting the kid gloves because he's not making the kind of claims to trustworthiness and authority in question. If he was, he'd be blasted as well. Instead, he brings those figures onto his show and has discussions with them.\n\nAnyone who doesn't understand that Joe Rogan is a comedian and NOT a news organization isn't a reasonable person and shouldn't have their opinions seriously considered on account of their total lack of discernment.", "Can you specify what you’re talking about", "Prett insane how you can write off a blatant lie as a \"little fish\". The cognitive dissonance is strong with you", "You do realize, you're the one who's losing his shit over \"the media\" on a post using a Seinfeld clip to make a joke, right? If you don't realize that exaggerating is a part of comedy, you must be a real treat at parties. It's honestly hilarious to see someone completely miss a joke as thoroughly as you do.\n\nTo further demonstrate how your personal narrative and bias is what's driving you, I want you to go look back through this exchange. Where in this thread did I say anything about media? I don't watch CNN or MSNBC, I honestly don't know which articles you've been talking about, I've been defending the OP and other people making jokes about horse-dewormer this entire time.\n\nIf you want to call me a liar for mocking people taking Ivermectin(regardless of source) as taking \"horse-dewormer\", go right ahead, I'm okay with that. And in return, I'll call you obtuse for so ardently trying to debunk a joke.", "It impacts nothing.\n\nRogan's bullshit does.\n\nFunny how you deflect this.\n\nYOU: \"wahh they called it horse dewormer even though it's still not being medically approved for treating covid! Lieeeee!\"\n\nROGAN: \"I didn't get the vaccine; I took an unapproved treatment though. If you're young you'll be fine. \"\n\nYOU: \"A-okay! The first is totally worse\"\n\nI say again: (hint: it wasn't liberal media that told the poor morons to take an unapproved medication used for parasites for a virus, lmao)", "Oh wow…dude… no one is talking about the Seinfeld clip here. \n\nGet a clue.", "> here’s a snippet explaining that from the National Institute of Health\n\nJust to be clear, that quote's not from the National Institutes of Health. The NIH website hosts [PubMed Central](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/about/intro/), a free repository of millions of open-access articles. That quote's from an article in the Proceedings of the Japan Academy by one of the discoverers of ivermectin.", "what's really funny is Joe Rogan has been one of the most 'you can't take a joke snowflake' guy for the last decade and now is constantly complaining about the horse jokes directed to him.", "You are the one who keeps bringing it back to media. Seriously, look through this thread. Kramer is 100% more justified in this clip than Rogan is in taking his dewormer. That was the the first post in this chain. You're the one who went all keyboard warrior, introducing the media lying about Rogan, as a response to a joke about taking pet meds. You hear that whooshing sound?", "Penecilin is horse medication.", "Where’s the lie?", "Russel Brand is \"both sides\"-ing the faith in media situation. The truth is that both sides editorialize their news but they aren't doing it to the same degree. And bad actors will take this and muddle the details. Turn it into \"See all mass media is bad, subscribe to MY podcast for the honest truth, nobody is paying me to say stuff\".\n\nBrand makes some cracks that Joe Rogan doesn't know what he is talking about either. He is smart. He isn't going to chug ivermectin because Joe mentioned it. But plenty of people will. Ask any doctor, they get people daily that ask for pills they saw on TV or heard on a podcast. And you bet your ass Joe specifically asked for ivermectin. That's why CNN calls it a horse dewormer and why Joe shouldn't be giving it his stamp of approval.\n\nSo, no russel. We don't need to weigh the opinion of Joe against the opinion of CNN on covid vaccinations. This is entirely up to your doctor. And no doctor is going to give you ivermectin, or hydroxicloroquin without being asked for it specifically.", "I didn't say the first was worse dumbass. You completely made that up. All I said was that it is counter productive. Can't say Im surprised though since you clearly have no issue arguing in bad faith.\n\nAlso it makes a huge impact. Lying makes you a liar. When people know you are a liar, you lose all credibility", "All of the jokes rogan makes are based on some sort of truth as opposed to “rogan takes horse pills” which is blatantly unequivocally false (and malicious).", "If you want to be that pedantic, lying necessitates proof of intent to deceive. You do not have that. So sit down and if you genuinely care, you'd be better off going to the source of the bigger lies... Like the lies getting people actually killed. Lies about what's medically effective treatment to stop this pandemic. Go to Joe Rogan sub and slam the bigger fish of lies.\n\nI say again: (hint: it wasn't liberal media that told the poor morons to take an unapproved medication used for parasites for a virus, lmao)", "Viagra is a high blood pressure wonder drug. It started out as a high blood pressure treatment so that’s what it will always be.", "These are some gold medal level mental gymnastics \n\nYou know Joe Rogan didn't take horse dewormer and yet you propagate the misinformation that he did. You're a liar and your lies are part of the reason people won't listen to our side and are getting killed.", "He's not though? He's laughed at the joke a bunch but he also mocks the joke so the people who joke about him now can't take a joke either", ">You know Joe Rogan didn't take horse dewormer and yet you propagate the misinformation that he did.\n\n\n[Yes he did. Can you please be quiet now, liar?](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/01/1033485152/joe-Rogan-covid-ivermectin)", ">im not triggered you are!\n\ni see", "You don't even care that you're lying and spreading disinformation. You really are a piece of shit\n\nEven Dr Sanjay Gupta admitted that cnn shouldn't have said Joe Rogan took horse dewormer\n\nhttps://youtu.be/C7uKZikTus0", "Oh, did people not find out yet that Rogan took a medication designed for humans prescribed by a doctor that also has another version adapted for horses? Vaccines and antibiotics work on horses too, are those dumb for humans to take too?", "It's not that it's a joke it's a lie. CNN said he took horse paste because it happened to have the same medication in it that he was prescribed by a doctor. Whether ivermectin works against covid is another matter but calling it horse paste and the reports of people taking horse paste apparently were entirely made up to make a news cycle big. \n\nThat's anti science rhetoric, like when antivaxxers say vaccines have mercury in them, ignoring that the preservative they're referring to is not _that_ kind of mercury from what I have read.", "All three groups are and it's great", "> the truth is not more important to them than dunking on their political and ideological opponents.\n\nI don't know why they're downvoting this.\n\nDuring the 2020 riots, we were told simultaneously that COVID was super deadly and black Americans were at greatest risk, and also that it was super important for them to gather en-masse to protest because COVID wasn't as serious as political issues.\n\nIf people took the truth more seriously, they would've seen that trusting A meant avoiding B because it would've been literally genocide.", "Or taking antibiotics when you have an infection. You know that's what they give to animals?", "> Ivermectin is an anti-parasite, worms are a type of parasite it is prescribed to treat. He got a prescription for a human dewormer\n\nIt's also useful as an anti-viral, so there goes your whole statement. Go home, Brian Stelter.", "It's a common dewormer, it's used for dogs, cats, horses, humans, whatever. What it doesn't do is treat viruses.\n\nThe joke isn't a lie it's a jab at an ego, and it worked. Yes, he took the human pill for ivermectin, the dewormer.\n\nIn other cases, yes, people are literally taking apple flavored horse medicine from a tube bought at a feed store because either they can't find a doctor to prescribe them ivermectin (probably because there's no actual studies a doctor could use to justify giving a medicine to a human that if abused can cause extreme bleeding from their patient's anus), or they don't have insurance, or whatever.\n\nEither way, taking ivermectin for COVID-19 is stupid.", "He took something used for horse deworming, that's for sure. \n\nI mean we know it's not approved for what he took it for....Right?\n\nI say again: (hint: it wasn't liberal media that told the poor morons to take an unapproved medication used for parasites for a virus, lmao)", "Going to need a citation for that one. Which viruses has it been approved to treat? Why does the manufacturer only market it as an anti-parasite?", "The lie is that he took horse dewormer, which he didn't. It wasn't a joke it was a lie followed by a \"Look how stupid he is!\" laugh. CNN, at least in theory, is supposed to be a news organization and spreading overt lies is a no no.\n\nAlso, if some doctors want to prescribe something because they think it might help and the risks are minimal we all need to stop with the armchair medical science routine. That's the same crap that prevented doctors prescribing weed to cancer patients because it _couldn't_ and _shouldn't_ help. \n\nLet the experts do their job and let's not let the news and politicians appoint themselves the arbiters of what doctors should and should not due outside the realm of actual malpractice.\n\nHey, you know what definitely shouldn't have helped ulcers but ended up doing exactly that? Antibiotics. Biology is weird sometimes .", "I think Joe Rogan is probably a human being. I did not watch the video, but I don't think Russell Brand and CNN were on Seinfeld teasing Joe about his medical history, so I'm pretty sure these comments are off the rails. I'm not a doctor, comedian, or journalist, so I think I'm allowed to be wrong here.", "You're lying or wrong. You're massively oversimplifying/distorting what's going on. Here's what [he said he took](https://www.instagram.com/p/CTSsA8wAR2-/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f5197a56-c1a1-41ce-bf10-c65fc350c1c2).\n\n> I threw the kitchen sink at it, so many meds. \n\n> * [Monoclonal Antibodies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclonal_antibody)\n\n> * Ivermectin (the drug being mocked here)\n\n> * [Z-Pack](https://www.healthcare-online.org/What-Is-A-Z-Pack.html)\n\n> * [Pregazone](https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pregnazone)\n\n> * NAD Drip\n\n> * Vitamin Drip\n\nHe took a lot of drugs, also he's not exactly \"at-risk\". He got better. There is no reason to expect Ivermectin was good or bad for him in any way.", "He said he took a lot of different meds. Here's what [he said he took](https://www.instagram.com/p/CTSsA8wAR2-/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f5197a56-c1a1-41ce-bf10-c65fc350c1c2).\n\n> \"I threw the kitchen sink at it, so many meds. \n\n> * [Monoclonal Antibodies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclonal_antibody)\n\n> * [Ivermectin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin) (the drug being mocked here)\n\n> * [Z-Pack](https://www.healthcare-online.org/What-Is-A-Z-Pack.html)\n\n> * [Pregazone](https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pregnazone)\n\n> * NAD Drip\n\n> * Vitamin Drip\n\nHe took a lot of drugs. Don't act like this is a \"gotcha\".", "Maybe you were asleep, but the entire Rogan horse dewormer thing started with MSNBC and CNN falsely reporting it as such, hence this entire post and thread. \n\nI didn’t “keep bringing it back” to the media. That’s what the whole conversation has been about this entire time.\n\nAnd you’re lying again. He was not taking horse dewormer. \n\nCope harder. It’s fucking pathetic.", "So he took a lot of drugs prescribed by doctors for a new illness that caused a pandemic, color me shocked!\n\nYeah, he did. He's a rich guy and can get as many doctors visits as he wants, I am not sure what is surprising about that. Where is the gotcha?", "Are people going to feed stores to buy the horse version of penicillin to the point where they have to put up signs telling people not to?", "Right, it's a legitimate medicine that is prescribed to get rid of parasites, which is notably not what he is using it for.\n\nChloride dioxide has legitimate uses as well, but there are people similarly using it as a pseudo-medicine, to \"treat\" things such as autism - do you not think they should be ridiculed either?", "nope, CNN only mentioned that it's also used by horses and Joe Rogan lied to make it seem like they were saying it's only for horses. \n\nAnd Joe rogan isn't just complaining about CNN, he's complaining about all the jokes too.", "Shhhh let these walking co-morbidities continue to take ineffective treatments.", "Yes. The version given to horses is a dewormer, which has nothing to do with COVID. Wild how chemicals can have different reactions to different species, huh? I mean, who could have seen foreseen this other than folks who have gone through real actual medical science education?", "You're honestly just proving my point that his \"comedian\" label is a way to shield himself from critique. \n\nHe and you can claim all you want that he's not a pundit or source of information for a lot of dumb brosephs and gwenyth Palbros out there but he is and he knows that's where his power and reach come from. \n\nI agree anyone dumb enough to listen Joe Rogan as a source of anything but intellectually dishonest commentary masquerading as some even handed exploration is an idiot BUT that fact is his show is NOT a comedy show - so his whole I'm just a comedian shtick is not accurate . In no way does he exist as a household name as a comedian. I rolled my eyes when John Stewart deflected this way and I'm rolling my eyes now", "Perhaps, but lots of fools in mocking people wanting a medication because it's not supposed to work fell for the same trap as those people when they suddenly decided that it couldn't possibly have not effect. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and the fact that some doctors decided to try it out is something I think we should let them do. I don't want doctors adapting their approaches to care by what CNN reports.\n\nDo you not know that medications have all sorts of unexpected effects? If some doctor somewhere had an idea based on his knowledge and wasn't causing harm I want them to try it. Almost all great drugs are found by accident or by weird experimentation. You know what viagra wasn't designed for in the slightest and no one thought a drug could do? Give you a hard on.\n\nThe mentality that \"I know this is not possible so experts are forbidden to test it\" is about as anti science as it gets.", "https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32533071/\n\n> Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra, Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest, Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome, Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2. Furthermore, there are some studies showing antiviral effects of ivermectin against DNA viruses such as Equine herpes type 1, BK polyomavirus, pseudorabies, porcine circovirus 2, and bovine herpesvirus 1. Ivermectin plays a role in several biological mechanisms, therefore it could serve as a potential candidate in the treatment of a wide range of viruses including COVID-19 as well as other types of positive-sense single-stranded RNA viruses. In vivo studies of animal models revealed a broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical setting.", "> You're honestly just proving my point that his \"comedian\" label is a way to shield himself from critique.\n> \n> \n\nBullshit.\n\n\"I'm a comedian and not a doctor, so don't take anything I say as gospel. Ask your doctor instead.\"\n\nThat's not a shield, that's necessary and reasonable disclosure.\n\n> you can claim all you want that he's not a pundit or source of information \n\nLiterally not what I said.\n\n> anyone dumb enough to listen Joe Rogan as a source of anything but intellectually dishonest commentary\n\nJust admit you don't like Joe Rogan and want an excuse to shit on him. Your entire argument is full of holes.\n\n\n> In no way does he exist as a household name as a comedian.\n\nSeriously? The comedian, host of Fear Factor, MMA commentator, and podcast host Joe Rogan?\n\nMaybe you were born too young.", "I think you're talking about Don Lemon's rebuttal to Joe Rogan, IIRC the original quote by Lemon was \"Joe Rogan is taking horse dewormer ivermectin\". They literally called it that.\n\nAlso it's not exactly a joke, it's more like \"It's just a joke, bro\" after people say insults.", "How is this being downvoted and hidden? I’m noticing I’m taking Reddit breaks way more often than I have in the past as of late. 🤦🏾‍♂️", "Science doesn't forbid testing of things, ethics does... and bro... The idea that a medicine could have a secondary effect/benefit and because of that, we should just allow people to try them out (and tell others to do so) without testing is insane or brain dead... maybe both.", "You're making up an argument for something I never even said. Of course medication should be tested, that's why clinical trials exist, but giving medicine to someone because they read about it on the internet from strangers claiming it will help, does not a clinical trial make, and is absolutely absurd.\n\n> I don't want doctors adapting their approaches to care by what CNN reports.\n\nWhat do you even mean by this, are you saying the FDA, NIH, and other health organizations recommendations and guidelines should be ignored just because CNN reported on them?", "I know im taking the bait here, but i hope all these “horse dewormer” fans are also making fun of all the people fighting malaria in 3rd world countries for taking chlamydia medicine. \n\nBecause drugs have multiple uses, what a crazy concept that seems to be overlooked.", "Even Sanjy Gupta admitted CNN was wrong for saying he took horse dewormer. They fucked up this time. It's CNN so it's not a huge shock they lied.", "LOL, thanks for not cropping out the part that proves my point.\n>In vivo studies of animal models revealed a broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical setting.\n\nThere's a big difference between a study and actual approval, this doesn't even have clinical trials. That means that the only approved use for this medication is as an anti-parasite. They can't market it or sell it as an anti-viral because there are no clinical trials proving its efficacy. This is also why doctors shouldn't be prescribing it as such. Thanks for proving my point.\n\nIf this had any effect on COVID, do you really think Merck would sit on it and advise people not to use it for off-label purposes? Big Pharma never passes up on an opportunity for profit, if anything, they'd hike up the price and send out reps to convince doctors to start prescribing it.", "Perhaps you misread what I wrote, not all people, doctors. Also you seemed to have added telling people to try things to the argument. I suppose you may not have experience with the medical profession but doctors don't randomly prescribe things to see what they do. They start with a thesis that involves what harm could be done as well and weigh things as options based on their expertise. That's a good thing. The thesis could turn out to be wrong too, that's normal.", "> If this had any effect on COVID, do you really think Merck would sit on it and advise people not to use it for off-label purposes? Big Pharma never passes up on an opportunity for profit, if anything, they'd hike up the price and send out reps to convince doctors to start prescribing it.\n\nDo you use your head before posting?\n\nMerck literally started making their own drug, as did Pfizer. They can't hike the price up on Ivermectin because it's dirt cheap globally already. It's a patented drug and they don't own it.\n\n> the only approved \n\nGoalposts shifted, yep. Never mind what the drug actually does, never mind the actual practice of medicine regarding off-label use.", "I had a headache last night. I took some ibuprofin, ate some pizza, and drank a soda. When I woke up this morning, my headache was gone. Therefore, pizza is an effective treatment for headaches.", "No, I am saying I don't want CNN telling doctors what to do based on their non-medical expertise or based on one doctor they pay to talk on air.\n\nAlso I am arguing against your logic about how it's _not_ what it's supposed to be used for, using examples of how that prevents good treatments due to politics (e.g. weed for cancer) and how something that's not supposed to work sometimes does (antibiotics for stomach ulcers). Biology and pharmacology is not a comprehensively solved science. We have doctors that do their best given their training and experience trying to make these decisions. \n\nI would like it if most people stopped with becoming an armchair expert and decoding we all get to tell doctors what they can't do unless there's a legit malpractice case. I don't know why some doctors have felt it was worth prescribing, do you?", "And you drink liquid used for cleaning cars, that's for sure.\n\nSee how stupid that argument is?", "The goalpost was never shifted (not by me at least), you just lacking the reading comprehension to see it. The post you responded to:\n\n>Going to need a citation for that one. Which viruses has it been approved to treat? Why does the manufacturer only market it as an anti-parasite?\n\nI added the bold for emphasis, but the original post is unedited. \n\nAs for the patent, do you really think that matters? Just look at what's been happening to the price of insulin.", "Well it worked for Joe so there's one point against your case. Never got put a ventilator and tested negative for COVID five days after. Don't you want people to be healthy and free from COVID? Or do you only feel that way about medicine that you've been told to feel that way about?", "False equivalence; ivermectin for covid treatment is not recommended or approved by medical experts for treating covid-19.", "> Also I am arguing against your logic about how it's not what it's supposed to be used for, using examples of how that prevents good treatments due to politics\n\nI was pointing out how your original claim was misleading, you're the one who extrapolated that with a different meaning.\n\n> I would like it if most people stopped with becoming an armchair expert and decoding we all get to tell doctors what they can't do unless there's a legit malpractice case. \n\nIf you actually believe that then surely you agree that medicine should be prescribed based on evidence, and not the patient's own personal beliefs.\n\nScience adjusts its views based on observations, not about ignoring observations in-favor of existing beliefs (that is anti-science).\n\n> I don't know why some doctors have felt it was worth prescribing, do you?\n\nThe same reason doctors have advocated for alternative medicine and snake oil in the past, perhaps?", "Ivermectin has been around for 50 years. The testing is done. mRNA vaccines on the other hand have yet to finish clinical trials. We are only using it because of the EUA which would be nullified if Ivermectin was found to treat COVID.", "So you seem to be under some impression that I am advocating for patients deciding their treatment. Perhaps reread my comments and you'll see how I am only advocating for _doctors_ to do so. I am pretty sure I made that clear. Perhaps you need to find the person arguing the point you keep claiming I have instead.", "\"it worked for Joe\" bro Joe Rogan is extremely healthy. He was going to be fine either way if he wasn't ransacked by co-morbidities before getting covid. You're literally drinking Kool aid and denying medicinal science. Shut the fuck up.", "Show me one person that said he took horse dewormer and wasn't saying that as a joke.\n\nI was an EMT man, I trust doctors with science that backs their medical practice with data over hacks.", "Your right! Ivermectin has been tested. And has been proven repeatedly to be ineffective against viruses. There's one non-peer reviewed study that has been repeatedly proven to be bad science that says maybe it might help. and that's it. Literally everything else says it's useless against viruses. 50 years of research. Glad we agree it's dumb to take for covid-19.", "Irrelevant", "[Here](https://youtu.be/3UhZ4at2DIs) is a video from CNN in which the chyron reads: \"[Joe Rogan] praises horse dewormer ivermectin\" in which they show him saying he is taking it. \n\nThat was pretty direct wasn't it? None of it was written or said in jest.", "lol", "Are you SURE that it wasn't just one or two stores that put up signs out of tens of thousands? And that those weren't just blown out of proportion by the media despite being a complete non-factor? Just curious.", "Didn't know Joe Rogan was such a controversial figure.", "tbf, Joe Rogan got better in 5 days - and I don't think he even lost any fur or experienced panting.", "It's a dewormer in humans, too. It might have some mechanism that kills sars-cov-2 in vitro (in a test tube) but at lethal concentrations in vivo (in the body). So does a bunch of other stuff. Like bleach and sunlight. (Somebody probably told Trump this when the President of the USA was 'riffing' about cures for Covid.)", "Hilarious you’re defending joe rogans fragile ego", "Oh no way, a news company took something out of context for a narrative? Completely unheard of.\n\nDid you just try to gotcha me with a fucking news corporation that literally has to specify the truth later on in their rhetoric explaining their bullshit spin if not right away but later on after every offended American blows up their website with complaints!? Do you think there's even one media news outlet that doesn't do this stupid shit? \n\nI'm talking about people. Not corporations, and you knew that.", "Are you trolling or being willfully ignorant here? At first you are saying American Leftists are liars, then when presented with evidence from the US Government itself stating not to use Ivermectin as a treatment for Covid you claim all americans are liars. \n\nWould you like a [european source](https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-advises-against-use-ivermectin-prevention-treatment-covid-19-outside-randomised-clinical-trials) stating the same?\nOr how about a [European trial](https://www.eunethta.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/EUnetHTA-COVID-19-RollingCR22-v6.0.pdf) finding no evidence to support the efficacy of treating Covid with Ivermectin?\n\nWhat about the [World Health Organization](https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-advises-that-ivermectin-only-be-used-to-treat-covid-19-within-clinical-trials) stating that individuals should not treat covid with ivermectin?", "Why are you defending CNN awful journalism. Jesus Christ.\n\nEdit: go back to r/selfawarewolves if you wanna circle jerk", "I need to do the same. My father was prescribed ivermectin after suffering from long haul symptoms for months. He actually got better shortly thereafter. It could very well be or not be the reason he recovered. he doesn’t like recommending it to others or talking about his experience because of nutjobs like the commenters on this thread screeching about evil anti science Joe.", "You asked for an example and you got one, don't get butthurt.", "I don't think he has a fragile ego, and I I don't have to like the person being lied about to disapprove of the lie. Personally I am not a fan of lying.", "So with that example you've now retreated to whether or not it's bad of them to say it? Take the loss with some dignity, these same guys propped up the Cuomo brothers so I don't think they're really operating in good faith.", "> So you seem to be under some impression that I am advocating for patients deciding their treatment. Perhaps reread my comments and you'll see how I am only advocating for doctors to do so.\n\nThis is being deliberately obtuse about what I'm saying; doctors are always the ones \"deciding\" the treatment, but in the case of something like this they aren't doing it based on the evidence, but basing it on what the patient themselves want.\n\nWe are talking about doctors who are ignoring the different health organizations, the various studies, and even the drug developer themselves who all say the drug doesn't work as a treatment.\n\nDoctors who despite that evidence still decide to prescribe it to their patients anyways, because the patient (in the case of someone like Joe Rogan, among others) doesn't trust \"big pharma\" and is going out of their way to find a doctor that is willing to give it as treatment because they believe it works.\n\nWith all that in mind it's hard to take this whole situation as if they are doing it under good faith and following the evidence of what actually works, and not because they are like some sort of drug dealer only doing so because it's what their patients demand.", "Did you just gloss over me pointing out that you were claiming I was advocating for patients to pick drugs when you just fabricated the whole thing? I'd respond to your points but are you going to invent more things about my position that I didn't say to try and make a point?", "confirmed troll", "Where the FUCK did I DEFEND CNN?\n\nALL major news outlets use SPIN and omissions to portray their agendas. Fucking nimrod.", "You used fucking CNN and can't provide a real person that isn't a spin doctor.", "I'm not at all defending CNN, reread my comment.\n\nFuck major news outlets, they don't care about common good, they are clickbait veterans.", "I'm truly sorry I offended you", "Gonna delete this one again?", "dipshit redditors \"antivaxxers need to shut up and trust doctors, reeee\" \n\n\nalso dipshit redditors \"ivermectin is for horses even though its doctor prescribed for people, reeeee\"", "I'm not surprised that followers of someone with a fragile ego also have a fragile ego", "You sound like a guy who never got to visit r/ivermectin and their threads of buying out all supplies.", "man you mustve really drank the koolaid or should i say, taken the joe rogan ~brane vitaminz~", "Nope, Sanjy Gupta went on the podcast to talk about covid misinformation and Joe Rogan did a 1 hour detail about a segment that Sanjy didn't even see. \n\nSanjy tried to be diplomatic with 'if that happened' but Joe Rogan wasn't having any of it. Sanjy eventually apologized to move on. \n\nTo top it all off, the clip only mentioned that it was used for animals, while over segments clarified it's used in humans too. \n\nJoe Rogan spent an hour on his fragile ego than helping talk about some of the covid misinformation that he spread and that his followers believe in. \n\nLook at this person further up in the comments\n\nhttps://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re2bri/kramer_beat_joe_rogan_to_it/ho6mbrv/\n\nHe STILL believes that ivermectin cures covid. \n\nJoe Rogan isn't being open minded about these alternative covid theories. It's about defending his fragile ego.", "Nope, Don Lemmon mentioned it was used as a horse dewormer. In that segment he didn't mention it was used in humans, but subsequent clips showed that he did make the clarification.", "You are unhinged lol", "ivermection as a cure for covid: one of the biggest hills these conspiracy people are dying for. Peak fragile ego.", "Better not take penicillin. It's prescribed for animals all the time.", "thank you for agreeing with me about CNN lying.", "It's just as moronic to call it horse paste and escalate this thing from nothing to a national news story. Meanwhile those of us sane people are thinking: \"It may or may not work but it's up to the doctor to decide what you take, calling it horse paste though when its the human version being described is a dumb and immature way to respond. I guess I just need to follow my own judgement since most everyone with a platform is insane.\".", "Yeah, it was the chyron that called it horse dewormer that Joe Rogan was talking about, so not Lemon unless he wrote it.", "Actually no, I don't listen to him. You've sure drunk the kool-aid that thinking it was wrong for CNN to claim he took horse dewormer is only because one is a fan of Rogan. \n\nI don't have to like someone to disapprove of petty ego battles that cause actual news networks to make things up.", "So do you just try this insecurity based attack when you've got nothing left to stand on?", "Looks like another step backwards. Now it's the who cares about any of this? You did a moment ago.", "It’s great to hear that he’s recovered and feeling better! He should be able to at least share his experience freely cause it is absolutely a celebratory occasion that everything is better with him! But as you said, the nut jobs will roll in and ruin it. Either I’m very happy for your father and your family!", "My tractor supply store literally just put up a sign. Idiots are still fiending for their horse paste..", "right, you dont specifically listen to joe rogans 4 hour podcasts. but you also have some chip on your shoulder about cnn because youre likely some conspirutard trumpster type. man, you really showed me", "ITT reddit users who are totally full functioning adults masturbate over Joe Rogans omnipotence.", "Dude I had a cold and I drank one shooter of gasoline everyday for 7 days. It cured it! No more cold!", "You're probably in favor of one major news outlet and think they always tell the truth.", "Nothing like reddit to remind you that you have to share this failing planet with regressive shitbag neck beards too stupid to read.", "I called them out on something they actually do, they tell a misleading story, then they backpedal and pretend that's good enough. It's not. It's also, in my opinion, pretty dumb to use something like CNN to showcase an example of a person claiming that Joe Rogan took \"horse dewormer\" as if that's a fact and not a joke. This dude didn't, he used fucking CNN of all things.", "I might be joe rogan. Dude has the sort of issuers that lead to online troll fights.", "it's entirely possible", "Dude, you lost the argument. Stop sinking deeper into defeat.", "Hey, just a quick bit of info, you sound like a fucking idiot.", "Sure maga kid. Sure.", "You're kidding, right? The guy refuses the vaccine, unsurprisingly gets covid, then takes half a pharmacy, and you're wondering where the gotcha is?", "Oh, so you're like that other guy that needs to refer to the script:\n\n\"Let's see, they don't like CNN and might like Rogan. Says here accuse them of liking Trump then throw in conspiracy and mix in calling them a retard even though we're not supposed to use that word.\"\n\nI think you forgot the usual accusation of watching Fox news though. You guys need some new material.", "So is your theory now that the chyron was somehow auto-generated and not written by someone by CNN, or that because it was written it doesn't count as spoken?", "Yeah, that's usually how it goes. Where is the gotcha?", "You keep talking about fragile ego and you're the one who sounds the most bruised in this thread.", "noooooo someone called me an idiot noooo take it back right now mister!", ">we're \n\nwhos we? and new material? like the righties 1 joke about transgendered people? lol you are exhausting", "Dude you asking him for one example that wasn't a joke and he posted a video from CNN. That's also the number one source of this conflict and rogan's pushback. He had a whole thing over it with Dr Sanjay Gupta of CNN.\n\nDon't ask for an example and then when you get a solid one try to pretend it doesn't count.", "This is unfortunately a very common tactic nowadays. Especially in \"politically charged\" arguments.\n\nAnd yes it is fucking stupid", "If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck... You brought up me liking Trump as a response when it wasn't related so the odds were in my favor.\n\nWhat's the joke about trans people? I must not have heard it.", "He has become one recently. Mostly over the pandemic/vaccine.\n\nI don't know what to make of it fully, he's had some dumb takes for sure. But i think the narrative against him is a bit too aggressive right now. It'll probably blow over.", "False - I'm saying that you & others are citing a very insignificant percentage of the populous & are suggesting that they pursued horse paste in droves. The truth is that it was a handful of idiots, and the story was exaggerated in the media.\n\nSuggesting that the public was at risk because droves of podcast fans flooded the hospitals after consuming horse paste is equivalent to saying that white nationalists were rampaging through the streets of Chicago because one actor on Empire said his friends attacked him.\n\nClickbait.\n\nhorse paste was being purchased in droves over podcaster advice is equivalent to saying that white", "Bro what did I ask for? CNN is a spin, sensationalist, news outlet, quit acting like they represent real perspectives of people.", "He took a medicine that de worms horses. The form in which it was prescribed to him wasn't for de worming horses but if you gave it to a horse it would de worm the horse. Pedantry is pedantry. Twist as much as you want Rogan is dumb.", "No, my point is that news outlets on the level of CNN, MSNBC, FOX, NBC, BBC, etcetera aren't reliable sources of human interaction and perspectives, they love to mislead people with flashy, scary, controversial, bullshit like stupid text banners on the screen to get boomers to not change the channel.", "So then you'd find antibiotics dumb to take too? Just like ivermectin it was developed for humans, then found it worked in animals too.", "If taking antibiotics to treat a virus then yes that would be dumb. Just as taking an anti parasite medication to kill a virus is dumb.", "Oh I see… You’re a moron.", "Hold up, did you just drop the horse part because now it sounds dumb?", "It only became a joke after CNN looked bad for saying it, like \"It's just a joke bro\". Rogan may be an idiot, no argument there, but he just said what his doctors prescribed him. It wasn't stuff he picked.", "If taking horse antibiotics to treat a virus then yes that would be dumb. Just as taking a horse anti parasite medication to kill a virus is dumb.", "Hahaha. Kramer taking that good ole noble peace prize winning drug that is on the WHO’s essential drug list.", "So now you've put back the horse part but modified it to say that the antibiotics have to be the horse version? You're really dancing around to try to make this point.", "Okay, talking broken bones, why doesn't flea and tick medication help?", "Well it wouldn't, but I don't see how that relates.\n\nBetter to ask, should antibiotics, that also get prescribed to dogs and horses, be taken to treat stomach ulcers, which shouldn't have worked up until someone discovered they do? I would say yes.", "Shouldn't horse dewormer work with Covid? Funny how many Herman Cane awards happen.\n\nAnyway, why don't people use more flea and tick medicine for broken bones? It's what the main stream media is against", "Go to bed wacko", "Oh sweetheart I'm one of the few people who actually likes him from Newsradio - I'm aware that he was once a comedian - that's not what he's famous for - and fear factor can hardly be called him working as a comedian. \n\nI don't need to admit that I don't like Joe Rogan - it's very apparent that I don't like him or his dumb bro fans - but that doesn't really negate any of my criticism of him. \n\nPeople wrongly or rightly take cues from him - that comes with responsibility and intellectual honesy which I don't think he generally displays", "You literally can't deny that ivermectin cured Joe Rogan. You're in denial is in denial.", "Maga kid LOL\n\nI guess that's cool when you got nothing left in the argument. Take the L and move on.", "Says the Trump fan.", "not surprising reading comprehension from the joe rogan crowd lmao", "lmao", "> I'm saying that you & others are citing a very insignificant percentage\n\nFinancial data of drug makers producing ivermectin say otherwise unless you can source for me that last year also corresponded with a sudden outbreak of livestock illness.\n\nFor example, Vitamedic Industria Farmaceutica, a Brazilian pharma that produces generic Ivermectin went from selling 2.8m USD worth of it in 2019 to 83m worth of it in 2020. The same from India pharma companies which went from shipping 17m to 51m worth of Ivermectin.\n\nSo you're saying a \"handful\" of people bought over 120m dollars worth of Ivermectin?\n\nSorry but you're retarded.", "But not for covid though. It's an antiparasitic", "even as a fan of Joe I can say he has been directly responsible for a lot of covid misinformation and is extremely conspiratorial about all things COVID19 and is basically anti-vax. He gives a platform for tons of idiots who spew misinformation but then at the same time argues with tons of fallacies with Dr. Sanjay Gupta when he's his guest.\n\nI almost can't listen to the podcast anymore because he constantly brings up covid conspiracy shit in almost every episode, and his guests are afraid to challenge him now because he's such a massive audience and it benefits his guests so much to be on his show", "Clinicians should not be experimenting on their patients. I can’t believe this needs to be said.", "ewww you take medicine made from fungus, gross! Keep taking fungus medicine! (penicillin)", "i take my alpha brain", ">NewsRadio\n\nThe TV sitcom. Yep. Joe Rogan the actor.\n\nNowhere in that list is he Joe Rogan the:\n\nDoctor \nScientist \nPolitician \nNews Anchor \n\nYou're proving my point.", "Whats the stats on the number of ivermectin deaths?", "See, shit like this is why I can't stand the discourse on Reddit anymore.\n\nYou asserted your claim, you've backed up what you believed with examples and evidence, but because it goes against the Reddit hivemind they of course will downvote you.\n\nThat's fine, that's expected at this point. The part that I can't stand is that instead of arguing about the topic at hand, they instead have to come in and insult you. And they actually get upvoted for insulting you. It's gross.\n\nYou would think if you were so incorrect that they try to bury your comments, that they'd at least be able to come up with one argument against you.\n\nAnd before I get a reply about it - I don't even hardly know who Joe Rogan is, he's not a celebrity in my country.", "Quick question, are you \"fully\" vaccinated? Oops, sorry, that's misinformation--there is no \"fully\" vaccinated state as it turns out. Who started that bit of misinformation? \n\nMy point here is that the situation is fluid, information will continue to pour in, opinions will continue to be updated. Both Rogan and Fauci have made incorrect statements and thus, both are responsible for covid misinformation. \n\n The big difference is that FAR more people listened to Fauci's misinformation and he's responsible for far more damage. Fauci is the one we are supposed to be able to trust, not Rogan. Talking about what some podcaster says is a distraction from the bigger issue, which is the atrocious messaging coming from the CDC and Fauci. \n\n[Fauci has directly lied to the public, he is responsible for a tremendous amount of damage--his words re-fueled the anti-mask nonsense. But him didn't mean it. Him sorry. Him was secretly jus be'n a hero for healthcare workers cus him was worried](https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8735-4022-a1f5-1580bc732c45) He fucking lied. He's a fucking liar. \n\nThe most dangerous imbecile wagging lip, in this entire debacle, is Fauci. He has blood on his hands. He's a health pro that broke the trust of 10's of millions in the U.S. alone. Rogan is a podcast guy who thinks BigFoot might be out there. \n\nNow excuse me, I have to sign up for booster number 4 so I can be \"fully\" vaccinated.", "So he is healthy so he is not at risk, and one of the drugs listed may have been a contributing factor to his faster than normal recovery?", "Oh, the topic was Joe Rogan though, don't know why you brought up Fauci.", "I don’t understand what that guy means either. I think he thinks you’re trying to say this proves ivermectin works?", "You sould just admit you were wrong.", ">He doesn't remotely hold Rogan to the same level of scrutiny \n\nHe doesn't hold Joe Rogan to the same level of scrutiny to a one of the largest news corporations in the world with thousands of employees? ... weird", "Johnny have you taken that horse paste again?", "Moving the goal posts much? If they pointed to some rando on twitter you would be all \"omg just because some random person on twitter has said it doesn't mean anything, show me something mainstream\".\n\nIt is 1000 times easier to find people saying something, because amongst humanity people have taken every stance on every topic. Pointing to a mainstream outlet for news saying it is much higher of a hurdle and proves you are in fact wrong.", "Yes, and a pretty incredible protease inhibitor which shows amazing promise with viral replication. Does it work with Covid, time will tell. Is it mainly animal medication , no.", "If you're a public figure stoking the conspiracy flames, I'm okay with the aggression. You have to remember the conservative sheep that are still grasping for any reason not to get vaccinated.", "Thanks, I appreciate that.", ">Quick question, are you \"fully\" vaccinated? Oops, sorry, that's misinformation--there is no \"fully\" vaccinated state as it turns out. Who started that bit of misinformation?\n\nNot sure where you live, but in the U.S. fully vaccinated means 2 weeks after completion of a two-dose mRNA series or one dose of Janssen vaccine. \n\n[https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/reporting-vaccinations.html](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/reporting-vaccinations.html)\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Both Rogan and Fauci have made incorrect statements and thus, both are responsible for covid misinformation.\n\nWhile Fauci and Rogan did make incorrect statements, Fauci's statement about not needing mask was to prevent a supply chain shortage of the masks. \n\n\n>The big difference is that FAR more people listened to Fauci's misinformation and he's responsible for far more damage. \n\nNo shit. More people listened to an Immunologist who was basing his recommendations on the SCIENTIFIC data that was available. \n\n\n>Talking about what some podcaster says is a distraction from the bigger issue, which is the atrocious messaging coming from the CDC and Fauci. \n\nBlaming Fauci for saying masks weren't required up front was a distraction from Trumps entire mishandling of the pandemic, including casting doubt on the entire scientific community, while also recommending disinfectant injections. \n\n\n>Now excuse me, I have to sign up for booster number 4 so I can be \"fully\" vaccinated.\n\nBased on the rest of your post don't forget to get the first and second round before you get your booster.", "Using Ivermectin for Covid has shown some improvements on health outcomes in areas where the general population has parasites, ie. third world countries. \n\nMost of the \"research\" early on appeared to be completely botched however. \n\nThis is an interesting read. \n[https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted](https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted) \n\n\nI know a few people taking Ivermectin from a feed store because unsurprisingly, none of the doctors in the area will prescribe it to them. \n\nThey said they don't want to be \"guinea pigs\", I asked them if they wanted to be a horse instead. :)", "I suppose so, which is not what I am saying. I find it curious how people find it shocking that a person they don't like did most likely exactly what they would do if they were in their position.", "Thanks. Yeah it’s interesting he still has lingering effects but now the main biggest symptoms he had have subsided", "Of course, because since people bought what CNN said regarding ivermectin only being used in horses, doctors know if they prescribe it CNN can mention them and now they'll have mobs of people to deal with who all now think they're on the side of the righteous. Don't you know that's how it works? \n\nA great example of that is the massive amount of pressure on doctors and therapists to prescribe \"gender affirming\" treatment to stop puberty in kids and then give cross sex hormones that will sterilize them among other lifelong consequences. If a doctor legitimately believes that a child is suffering from some other ailment and the trans path is incorrect and recommends that path for their child patient, they can get fired for that and have their career ruined from the public backlash, even if they're right.\n\nI agree most doctors aren't going to choose random treatments, that's why when they decide on ones I think they should have the option to do so and random people without medical degrees shouldn't band together and decide they know better.", "Chill out, it's funny, it's a joke, you would think that fans of a comedian would have a sense of humor about it", "It's just a joke bro! Like that time I told people you said a racist thing but you didn't, that was hilarious!", "I'm sorry, here I was thinking that sharing a clip from a sitcom where a man finds a dog with the same ailment as his, buys dog medicine and then simulates being a dog while his friend shoves the pill down his mouth, could be a joke, I guess is a matter of very very serious nature\n\nFucking hell", "Probably because it wouldn't make sense. For some reason there are doctors that decided to try ivermectin to treat covid, among other things. I don't know what their thesis was, do you? Seems like everyone assumed they just picked it randomly, I don't think doctors do that. \n\nAs a non-doctor I would think that it wouldn't make sense to prescribe an antiparasitic medication for covid, but given there are doctors that did I then wonder why they decided to do so. I don't just assume I am the expert and without asking the doctor conclude I know better. That would seem very ignorant to do IMO.", "Yeah, it's almost as if the title of the video made a reference to CNN lying about Joe Rogan.", "I hear you but I’m okay with it. The point is he would rather take something that doesn’t work than get vaxxed. If he just said I’m okay with the vax, he wouldn’t get made fun of, even if he ALSO took anti-parasite meds.\n\nSo until he gets vaxxed, it’s a joke. Rogan fans take horse dewormer. It’s true enough. They do take a horse anti parasitic for a virus.\n\nIt’s funny. Laugh.", "No, you somewhat missed the point of what I said. You tried to claim that doctors can not and are not pressured by CNN, that most certainly isn't true. My example of the push for doctors to follow trans treatments if their patients want it and not to deviate from that if they believe they should was an example of how that is done.\n\nWell, I don't know why to your question because like I said I don't assume the role of doctor like many people do; but that is also assuming that no other doctor in any other country is doing so. I find that fairly hard to believe. How do you substantiate that? \n\nAre you not aware of medical history that has many examples of the collective of most medical authorities being completely wrong? Not saying that is the case here, but if you want to say that if most doctors agree it must be right that doesn't fit with history. Most doctors once thought that lobotomies were good treatments or that homosexuality was a psychiatric disorder.", "That's exactly what I said about flea and tick medication for broken bones!\n\nDoctors didn't prescribe ivermectin for Covid, in fact they did the opposite, but that didn't stop idiots from taking it.", "Yes, he also took things prescribed by his doctor. I agree that it seems foolish to me to not be vaxxed, but I make it a point to not join groups of people who have decided that they know better than everyone else and we must mock and scorn those that disagree. If someone doesn't want to get the covid vaccination, I'll ask why, listen to them, and do my best to try and justify why I think it's a good idea. \n\nGod knows that the media and politicians screwed up in almost every way to help vaccination hesitation so I am sympathetic. Someone that already was nervous about new drugs that saw our current president and vice president tell people before they were elected not to trust the vaccine, then flip and say there's nothing to fear after being elected would certainly be more nervous not less from that. Or listening to the conflicting reports from Fauci that the vaccine is incredibly wonderful, safe, and effective; but also you're not safe even if you get it depending on what question he's being asked doesn't foster confidence.", "The \"Gotcha\" is how you phrased this. You make it sound like since it is a crossover between horse meds and human meds (and yes, there are lots of drugs that work on humans and animals), people making the \"Ivermectin isn't a good COVID-19 drug\" argument are uninformed. That they're the wrong ones. Like \"oh, Ivermectin is prescribed for both humans and horses? GOTCHA, you don't know what you're talking about!\" When you're sitting here uninformed, yourself.\n\nIt's funny, I came at you strong because your sort of comment is the type of thing I see on vaccine denial people. I didn't think you were necessarily one, but their ideas spread too much. And then I look and see you've got like 20 comments arguing stupid uninformed shit all over this thread.", "Exactly, Rogan used to call his listeners silly bitches, what happened to y'all?, where's the silliness we loved?, I guess everything can be funny, except when talking about Rogan? Jesus Christ", "I'm telling all the armchair medical scientists with their gotcha statements about how a medication being effective in horses as well as humans is a 0 when it comes to evidence and is also subterfuge. I didn't say it worked for covid. Lots of people are trying to claim I am saying so though. \n\nAlso swing and a miss regarding vaccine denial, I am vaccinated and encourage others to do so. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge.", "Are pharmacy chains refusing to fill penicillin prescriptions written by doctors?", "How am I a Trump fan? Because I think you're a moron? I gotta tell you, bud...you're gonna meet a lot of 'Trump fans' here if that's how you think. Or let's break it down even more, is it all people who listen to Joe Rogan who are Trump fans? The man who endorsed Bernie Sanders?\n\nKeep talking, you make yourself sound dumber by the post. Also, a quick search history would show you how stupid you sound claiming I'm a Trump fan, but I don't expect any critical thinking out of you anyways.", "The people who are vaxxed don’t think they themselves are smarter. What they did was evaluate the arguments and sources of smarter people. On one side was 95% of scientists, epidemiologists, and doctors. \n\nOn the other side was Alex Jones, a handful of celebrity doctors, and a large percentage of the people who thought Obama was born in Kenya. \n\nThen they chose. And by golly, would you believe it looks they chose correctly.\n\nI’ll put this in a what that might resonate. Remember how we went through that phase where we hated participation trophies? Because handing those out for any old thing might foster and encourage people to settle for being also rans?\n\nIt’s the same thing with idiots. If you don’t call people who are being idiots idiots, they won’t know they are being idiots.\n\nI have a wide tolerance for a lot of horseshit, but if you believe the vaccine works, don’t waste your time being an apologist for the idiots. You are not helping anyone.\n\nAnd your Biden’s fault argument is not convincing.", "you know who else wore shoes and ate food? HITLER.\n\n/s", "But people really are (or were?) taking the animal version. You had stores that sell farm goods saying they were running all out of the cattle dewormer meds. They were telling people that it’s not for humans, but people were still buying it all up anyways.", "Username guess, seems to have caused a response.", "I didn't move a goalpost at all. This was my stance the entire time. I don't contend Joe Rogan took horse medicine.", "He is now Joe Rogan the media influencer and shaper of public opinion to a lot of dumb impressionable people - that for me comes with the same responsibility to be intellectually honest as any of things you listed. \n\nThat's my point - with the level of influence he has achieved as a pundit (that's correct he is no longer a comedian when we talk JRE and pretending he's just a comedian is assinine) he should be scrutinized just like all the other categories. \n\nI can also make the argument that its the consumers job to vet their news sources correctly and only idiots watch Fox News or CNN and don't see the holes and biases in the coverage. I think those organizations do have some responsibility to be better as ethical organizations but what Russel Brand won't admit is that he, Joe Rogan and CNN are all playing the same game - self obsessed punditry in a capatalist system more interesting in creating sensational engagement than actual intellectual honest discussion.", "Yeah, and satire is a concept that probably flies right over your little pea-sized brain as well, right? The only response you caused was me trying to help you realize how dumb you come off.", "Seem mad to me. Stay sucking Joe Rogan off.", "https://youtu.be/2xxxrC0Dk80", "A redirection. That’s not what I asked and you know it.\n\nI’m just sick of people making a mountain of a molehill. If vaccinated people want to pursue additional safety measures for their personal health, then let them. I don’t hear anyone complaining about folks taking aspirin for Covid.\n\nFor the record, vaccines are proven safe and effective. So get out of here with your anti-vaccines bullshit. Nobody is dying from the vaccines.", "Gotta be honest, not really interested in your homoerotic fantasies about Joe Rogan getting blown. That L you took is really unpacking some deep-rooted feelings inside of you. Keep going.", "I don't give a shit if you THINK I lost, that's not how I see it, what I see is a group of fanboys that can't see their idols as human, or their talking points as less than accurate. Have a bad day kid.", ">but calling it horse paste and the reports of people taking horse paste apparently were entirely made up to make a news cycle big\n\nThey weren't since people were doing this.", "It's funny and pretty transparent when people choose to pick their battles like this.\n\nSure, it wasn't the truth, but fighting to point out that \"Joe didn't actually take horse dewormer guys!!\" Whilst completely keeping quiet on the entire context on why he took it is pretty hilarious.\n\nJoe Rogan is a paranoid, conspiracy peddling, fragile anti vax moron. He took a useless (in the case of covid) treatment and peddled it to his viewers.\n\nvs.\n\nCNN uses the wrong word.", ">But instead of doctors, we should all listen to some wacko American on reddit. \n\nDoctors?\n\nLike the ones saying ivermectin does nothing for covid?\n\nYet.. Uncle Joe!!", "So...what were you kvetching about people listening to professionals?\n\nLmao", ">He actually got better shortly thereafter.\n\nOnce I broke my arm and I drank some gatorade, my broken arm was fixed a whole after. Thanks gatorade for fixing my broken arm.\n\n>thread screeching about evil anti science Joe.\n\nYou mean like how every scientific institution highly recommends against ivermectin for covid?\n\n\"doing your own research\" isn't science.", "Is it prescribed for something entirely unrelated to the affliction at hand?", "It's pleasant to read a rational opinion. Hard to tell who is being serious and just lacks that much critical-thinking, versus those operatives intentionally trying to gaslight.", ">That's anti science rhetoric\n\n\nanti-science like every scientific body saying that ivermectin is ineffective in treating covid?", "Finding that it also has usage in horses and then calling it horse paste, despite the fact that it was developed for humans first and that's what's being described, yes that's anti scientific.\n\nAlso top down authority declaring scientific conclusions is also somewhat anti-science. Science isn't a religion with high priests designating what is and is not correct. Yes, it does often work that way because of cooperation, transparency, and consolidation; but a person or institution being declared \"science\" and opposing work being heretical is indeed anti-science.", ">That's not what \"the doctors\" say. Have you heard of India? Africa? \n\nYep.\n\nThe \"doctors\" says ivermectin does nothing for covid.\n\nThe \"doctors\" have said that widespread applications of ivermectin in areas with poor sanitation, hygiene and access to standard medical care may have positive benefits in regards to quality of life and human health.\n\nTurns out that Joe Rogan isn't really worrying about potable water or getting enough calories in a day.", ">Finding that it also has usage in horses \n\nUsage for covid?\n\n>despite the fact that it was developed for humans first\n\nIt being \"developed\" for something is meaningless. Viagra was initially developed to treat symptoms of heart disease.\n\n\n>Also top down authority declaring scientific conclusions is also somewhat anti-science.\n\nTop-down?\n\nYou mean basic scientific consensus?\n\n> Yes, it does often work that way because of cooperation, transparency, and consolidation; but a person or institution being declared \"science\" and opposing work being heretical is indeed anti-science.\n\nSo every-scientific body agreeing that ivermectin is ineffective at treating covid is... anti-science. Gotcha.", ">You don't listen to professionals\n\nWhich professionals? The one saying ivermectin is not an effective covid treatment?\n\nOr the professional with a podcast who said HURR DURR I TOOK IVERMECITNG AN NOW IM HEALTHY HAHA\n\n>You listen to people like Don Lemon.\n\n\nwho?\n\n>Anything your mainstream media churns out, the American consumer laps up. It literally wouldn't exist if you weren't the product.\n\nMUH MSM!!!\n\n>You just can't see it on account of of all the white supremacy and all that. Whitey keeping you down again. Don't forget about the patriarchy!\n\nlol found another snowflake. funny how they seem to all flock together.", "The thing that you're missing is that no reasonable person would ever be in that position. Refusing far and away the best thing medicine has to deal with covid (the vaccine) and then YOLOing a bunch of other treatments which are both less effective and less safe is absolutely worth mocking.\n\nAnd no, I would not take ivermectin for covid, for the same reason I wouldn't take an antibiotic for a headache. It's an antiparasitic with absolutely no proven antiviral effect against covid in vivo.", "Well in a sense yes, when science is decided by an exclusive body then yes, that consensus can be anti-scientific.\n\nLet me tell you a story.. Long ago a guy named Dr. Semoweiss had this insane idea that surgeons should wash their hands with soap. He happened to notice that mortality rates in women giving birth went way up if the doctor had just given an autopsy. All the top medical institutions declared him wrong and in fact insane, he thought there was this invisible stuff on our hands that was killing people! He was right of course, but all the institutions declared him wrong and had him institutionalized despite data showing he was right. That was \"top down\" science. Does that sound like science to you?", "Ok Mr. Expert in everything. So when you go to the doctor you're telling him what to do? Do you do that at the mechanic as well? Are you a millennial by chance?", "Lotta whining and projecting.", "> doctors don't randomly prescribe things to see what they do\n\nThe doctors prescribing Ivermectin for Covid do, while actively ignoring the existing research.", ">Well in a sense yes, when science is decided by an exclusive body then yes, that consensus can be anti-scientific.\n\nAn exclusive body? You mean consensus? Lmao.\n\nWe get it, you think facebook \"research\" is science.\n\n> All the top medical institutions declared him wrong \n\nAnd you can stop right there.\n\nPerhaps, in addition to your scientific research, you should also get your historical researches from places other than facebook copypasta.\n\nDoctors and medical professionals all washed their hands (with soap). Modern humans have always understood how important this is.\n\nSemelweis' work was initially rejected because it was poorly synthesized, amateur and frankly, he was kind of a dick about it. He also wasn't universally rejected, as he was received relatively favourably in England.\n\nHowever, he failed to support his claims because his work was sloppy and unclear.\n\nConversely, ivermectin has been tested many, many, many times by various labs, research groups and academics and continually demonstrated diddly squat.\n >He was right of course\n\n\nand it took data to show that.\n\n>but all the institutions declared him wrong and had him institutionalized \n\nSemmelweis' later life issues, and his colleagues committing him to a mental institution are unrelated to his earlier work.\n\n> Does that sound like science to you?\n\nUpdating information as new evidence is produced is science yes.", ">The doctors prescribing it. \n\nDoctors do not prescribe it as a treatment for covid.", "It very well could have had no effect. \nPlenty of scientific institutions are doing studies regarding ivermecton effectiveness for a multitude of diseases/infections/etc.\n\nScience is constantly finding new things out and it takes a while before institutions like the WHO or FDA will \"approve\" a treatment. \n\nIt sounds like you might be arguing against some boogeyman. Try calming down and rereading.", ">It very well could have had no effect.\n\nIt has never been shown to.\n\n>Plenty of scientific institutions are doing studies regarding ivermecton effectiveness for a multitude of diseases/infections/etc.\n\nAnd none of them have demonstrated real effect on covid.\n\n>Science is constantly finding new things out and it takes a while before institutions like the WHO or FDA will \"approve\" a treatment. \n\nAnd we are constantly finding out that ivermectin is not effective in treating covid.\n\n>It sounds like you might be arguing against some boogeyman. Try calming down and rereading.\n\nRereading what? The large body of research that shows ivermectin is not an effective covid treatment?", "Dont worry friend nobody is making you take \"HorSe DeWormeR\"I think you need a reddit break. Go get some fresh air and read up.", "> Go get some fresh air and read up.\n\nRead up on what? The large body of research that shows ivermectin is not an effective covid treatment?", "Ok you win. Sorry for sharing an anecdotal experience.", "If my doctor said \"don't get the vaccine, take ivermectin\" I would of course find another doctor. I can't believe I have to say that out loud.\n\nWhy would I or anyone else possibly listen to the single-digit percentage of doctors who are blatantly ignoring the absolutely massive amount of research into covid?", "Who is we? And also no, he was institutionalized because of his obsession with fighting for his ideas of antiseptic procedures not being adopted and it led to his breakdown mentally. I imagine it was due to talking to unpleasant people like you who are openly hostile to discussion. Also no, Facebook is not where discoveries generally get posted, if you have trouble with your step parents doing that don't project it on the rest of us.", "Oh really, you've talked to doctors prescribing them and they've told you it was done randomly?", ">And also no, he was institutionalized because of his obsession with fighting for his ideas of antiseptic procedures not being adopted and it led to his breakdown mentally. \n\nNo, he was institutionalized because he was going bonkers. Most of his work was done two decades prior.\n\n> Also no, Facebook is not where discoveries generally get posted, if you have trouble with your step parents doing that don't project it on the rest of us.\n\nThen perhaps you should stop repeating Facebook copypastas.", "This guy likes to project and quote. But I think he means well Even though he comes off as an extremely pretentious person unwelcoming to ideas that are against those he has attached to his ego.", "Ah yes all the times things happen that you disagree with that line up with medical research automatically means that the corporations are at play, and the individuals you're engaging with are corporate pawns out to convince you that their fake voodoo science is real.\n\nYou got it all figured out!", "[It is ineffective against covid-19.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34318930/)\n> Ivermectin may have little or no effect compared to placebo or standard of care on clinical improvement up to 28 days\n\nJust to further clarify this statement, because I've found people who believe this shit are pretty soft-brained, \"placebo\" means they tell you they're giving you medicine, but give you fake pills or a liquid that has no medicine. and \"standard of care\" is basically observed bedrest and liquids.\n\nIt is basically saying that none of the studies that have been conducted have proved that it's more effective than doing nothing at all.\n\n> Even people who have been vaccinated many times can get sick.\n\nYeah, but they aren't dying and going to the hospital, like the people who haven't been vaccinated are. And the reason new variants that the vaccine is less effective against keep popping up, is because it keeps mutating in large populations of unvaccinated individuals.\n\nI have no idea what you're trying to say at the end there, why don't populations that don't have access to the vaccine have access to antivirals? well Ivermectin isn't an antiviral, its dewormer. And yes, Pfizer is working on an antiviral, but the areas that don't have access to the vaccine aren't going to have access to the antiviral unless they preordered it?\n\nIf your so enthused about alternative covid treatments from countries that don't have access to the vaccine, you should check out Bolivia, [where they're just drinking bleach and dying.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q955KCnHWBk)", "Receipts. Where are they. [Everything says that the chances of dying from covid-19 are insanely higher for the unvaccinated](https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination). I dare you to give me ANYTHING credible that says otherwise.", "Thirty seconds of searching would save you tons of time waiting on people you're never going to trust to provide you sources you arent going to trust because of the pervasive nature of confirmation bias, but here you go. : \n\nhttps://rethinkingclinicaltrials.org/news/august-6-2021-early-treatment-of-covid-19-with-repurposed-therapies-the-together-adaptive-platform-trial-edward-mills-phd-frcp/", "This is so silly. The stupid part about taking ivermectin isn't if it's for horses or not, it's the fact that worms and viruses aren't the same and it doesn't actually help with covid.", "You complained that he didn't include the word \"horse\" so he did it to prove it doesn't change much", "> \"It may or may not work \n\nIt doesn't \n\n\n>but it's up to the doctor to decide what you take, \n\nHe won't prescribe it to you\n\nWho cares if it's called horse paste or angel vomit. The shit doesn't work lol", "So there's been long term studies on its effects on covid, or are you just moving the (probably true) hypothetical to conclusion without the required experimentation step? You know, counter to science.", "It doesn't change much? Oh if that were the case why did the horse paste thing spread so much, or inspire this thread? That's just gaslighting.", "Gaslighting happens to victims of abuse not wimps who are mad their favorite podcaster got made fun of", "Start getting your science news from places other than social media", "You think a .org website..... is a blog?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nEven an uneducated Mississipian that loves confederate symbology would make you look dumb. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nHoly shit.", "Lol, did you never take part in a science fair? You can't just go from hypothesis to conclusion without experimentation. That's high school level science. Didn't you know that?", "Oh, so you aren't fully familiar with what gaslighting is too? Gaslighting often is a tool of abuse, but fundamentally it's a form of manipulation where you claim falsely something either did or did not happen in the past. If you want to say that \"horse paste\" didn't become a popular thing with Rogan that would be gaslighting.", "\"Oh really, thing I did not say?\" ...Okay?", "The question was in other words, do you know doctors prescribed it randomly or did you just assume? It was getting at how you formulated that conclusion. How did you get to it?", "The reason you think I'm not saying anything is that it seems what I'm saying is over your head - which is sad because I'm not saying anything sophisticated. \n\nA simple example - my point with the media thing isn't \"not all of them\" but rather Brands view is reductive and fails to realize that the media is a vast collection of individuals with the different interests agendas and biases. Making it out like the medias whole modus operandi is intentionally to maintain the staus quo that they benefit from is absurd on so many levels - it's conjecture and totally unprovable. It's the symptom of a simple minded person trying to create reason or some sort of motive because the idea of chaos makes them uncomfortable. It's how much conspiratorial conjecture starts", "I formulated it based on the same level of intellectual scrutiny used by doctors who prescribe Ivermectin, an anti-parasitic for treating extracellular parasites, as a treatment Covid, a virus/obligate intracellular parasite. Anyone that understands cellular biology can see why it would be ineffective but, like everyone, doctors are not immune to brainwashing via social media, hence some of them 'randomly' prescribe ivermectin despite a lack of efficacy.", "So without knowing why some doctors have prescribed it, you assumed that it couldn't be for any reason that you would not think of? Or in other words, it's not possible that it could be for any reason that you have not considered?\n\nThis is where I take issue. Something like this where someone says: \n\n\"I have formulated all ways in which ivermectin could affect a person with covid and concluded there could be no possible reason why a doctor would do so.\"\n\n\"Well these few doctors did, did you ask them why they did?\"\n\n\"No, why would I do that?\"\n\nis missing the exceptionally simple solution and instead replacing it with an unnecessarily complex one.\n\nKind of like if someone asks you what the weight is for a 747 and you derive all these fancy mathematical ways to do so, but miss that you could just call Boeing and ask them.", "lmao lrn2read I'm not the one who posted cnn. You should have prefaced your statement with \"except major news sources. I'll be a major cunt if you use a major news source\" xD\n\nedit: don't say \"you knew that\" when there was 100% no fucking way possible the person would know the idiosyncrasies of what sources you deem acceptable.", "One more comment for you, your original post says \"Show me one person that said he took horse dewormer and wasn't saying that as a joke.\" Someone proceeded to show you a person, and you discredited the source. That's an [ad hominem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). You're literally changing the rules after the engagement like a child.", "Incorrect. He showed me a biased news source that already backpedaled on their coverage, whom admitted to saying it in a disingenuous light in a 1v1 via Sanjay on Joe Rogan's podcast. So no, that's not at all a person, that's a news corporation with full teams of content writers with an agenda to cause sensationalism to get people like you mad.", "I'm sorry if you think a fucking news channel that is trying to sensationalize the conversation is a singular person. Not my fault you lack reading comprehension.", "I was clear in why I brought it up, jesus christ, read the bold part. I made it simple for average redditors.", "Will that make me fully vaccinated?", ">Based on the rest of your post don't forget to get the first and second round before you get your booster.\n\nPfizer, early vaccination, as soon as it came out, shamelessly used my ties to the medical community to get it, but nice distraction. Additionally, I happen to study chemistry, am the brother of someone who already holds a Ph.D in chemical engineering, believe in peer review over random gods decrees, don't believe in ghosts, big foot, vaccine conspiracies or any other ridiculous notion--that's why you haven't read any such statement from me. But please, feel free to bury your head in the sand. \n\nBut know that I know, the reason you offer hyperbole is because you can't actually refute my claim that Fauci and the CDC have failed when it comes to messaging. Another failure--Fauci allowed this to become political. Your hyperbole and referencing of that orange turd Trump proves my point.\n\n>Blaming Fauci for saying masks weren't required up front was a distraction from Trumps entire mishandling of the pandemic, including casting doubt on the entire scientific community, while also recommending disinfectant injections. \n\nBlaming Fauci for his errors is exactly that, blaming Fauci for his errors. You've been taught to politicize a vaccine, so let's correct that issue. Vaccines are neither left or right, they have no political orientation. Unfortunately, due to poor messaging, [the biggest (in the US) predictor of whether or not someone will accept the vaccine, is political orientation. ](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2021/10/01/for-covid-19-vaccinations-party-affiliation-matters-more-than-race-and-ethnicity/) \n\nFauci should have actively fought against the politicization of the vaccine. As the Gallup poll above shows, 58% of Republicans are vaccinated. This means Fauci had a simple majority supporting vaccination, coming from the right. He failed to take advantage of it. His messaging is abysmal. \n\n>No shit. More people listened to an Immunologist who was basing his recommendations on the SCIENTIFIC data that was available. \n\nGlad you agree on this one partially. Bigger audience, highly credentialed speaker=more responsibility. But please, point me to the SCIENTIFIC data that Fauci used when the said masks don't work. \n\n>Fauci's statement about not needing mask was to prevent a supply chain shortage of the masks. \n\nWhat a grotesque error in judgment. Even a simple cloth covering has a level of efficacy better than no mask at all. Fauci could have been...hmmm...honest? He could have said look, cover your faces with bandanas and gators for now while we get supply chain issues addressed. He could have immediately talked about mask efficacy, the data was already there. He had a choice to be honest, instead, he added fuel to the ridiculous anti-mask, q anon level bullshit. Fauci ALONE is responsible his egregious messaging.", "People can discuss more than one thing.", "> Kind of like if someone asks you what the weight is for a 747 and you derive all these fancy mathematical ways to do so, but miss that you could just call Boeing and ask them.\n\n...like looking up existing research about ivermectin? Those 'few doctors' you speak of are actively ignoring research and using humans as test subjects. Does ethics mean anything to you? Ivermectin has been tested, and has been shown to be INEFFECTIVE.... how hard is that to get? \n\nAny doctor saying otherwise is lying or worse, ignorant within their own profession, and worst of all, unethical.", "Exactly where has ivermectin been tested and shown to be ineffective? Lots of people seem to keep claiming this when I am fairly sure there has not been a study of it that shows it does not. You can't just invent studies to claim something. \n\nAlso, you completely missed the point of everything I said. Your answer to why not ask the doctor is to not ask them and claim anything they said that isn't what you claim is a lie? Where is your medical degree from, the University of reddit?", "You're still lowkey saying that ivermectin either hasn't been tested, or it has been shown effective... it hasn't. Does it have a concentration, that if achieved in the body, will inhibit covid? Yes. So does bleach. Don't drink bleach.\n\nAnd I'm ignoring the disingenuous 'point' of everything you're saying because you're still suggesting ivermectin is a miracle treatment they don't want you to know about... when it's really just an anti-parasitic that has properties that can be used to treat some viruses, but is ineffective against covid at the levels deemed safe. \n\nThis has been tested, if you haven't already read the studies then why the hell are you acting like you have?\n\nHere, [this](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011?via%3Dihub) is the study most people like to reference as 'proof' to claim ivermectin was shown effective.\n\nNow, notice that study takes place in CELL CULTURES, at very high concentrations. When this has been appiled to human bodies as a system, the levels are difficult to obtain without toxicity. \n\n[Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/) is the paper I've seen the most, with some quite radical claims with limited evidence that the author deems moderate certainty... with no field contributors besides the primary, and most importantly, it is a PREPRINT, meaning it has not passed peer-review and still hasn't/likely won't because of multiple strong challenges.", "Sounds like an increased number of distributors and pharmacies are ordering the drugs, and lots of doctor-prescribed patients are taking it safely and NOT ending up in the hospital.\n\nI stand by my original point, as mentally handicapped as it may seem. There are not droves of people ending up in hospitals from ivermectin overdoses. \n\nWhat point are you trying to make? That ivermectin is proving to be safe for humans? The species it was invented for?", "I have never once suggested that ivermectin is a miracle treatment, go ahead and find something to prove I'm wrong if that's not the case. In fact if anything I have said that it likely does not help. But just like it's idiocy to believe something is a miracle cure because people say not to do it, it's just as idiotic to then take the same idiotic stance in the reverse with a lack of data.\n\nLook at the two references that you just posted. Do they show that ivermectin does _not_ work? Or are they spurious claims that it does work? Removing a positive doesn't get you a negative, it gets you zero. You concluding that it's not zero, it's in fact negative without evidence. That is the anti science part, you're fabricating conclusions based off of what I would presume to be social and/or political reasons.\n\nOk, now that I've addressed all that; I have a serious question for you. Why do you need me to believe that ivermectin is a miracle cure? I don't, but you're insisting I do. Do you need me to believe that, in order to justify something for you so you can feel great about being a random guy who is \"doing the right thing\"? Do you want people to believe it's a miracle cure or not? Seems like you're unsatisfied in me not believing that. Like until I do, there's something you need to keep poking at.", "Not my fault you keep moving the goal posts just to appear \"right\"", "I never once moved a goal post, you lack reading comprehension and a real human example of what I asked for. You could just say, \"good point\" but you're not mature enough to do so." ]	375	videos	Kramer beat Joe Rogan to it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjToVdbPxbw	/r/videos/comments/re2g0l/snowball_fight_in_lyon_france_1896_old_footage/	[ "Imagine what people back then would think of people today", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_neige", "The guy on the bike thought he’d be able to just roll through a war zone unharmed?", "Depends on who you ask.", "He ended up losing a hat and almost getting his bike stolen for his hubris.", "They'd probably hate the crappy royalty-free music even more than I did" ]	6	videos	Snowball Fight in Lyon, France 1896 - Old footage restoration with AI
https://youtu.be/9-96YTHPlgU	/r/videos/comments/re2iai/the_true_meaning_of_the_season/	[ "Why is this downvoted?", "Some people hate Christmas", "But how can you hate bull sacrifices?" ]	3	videos	The True Meaning of The Season
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re3e25/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/re3e25/deleted_by_user/	[ "This is horrifying and I can only imagine what it feels like to be a resident of this town.\n\nI couldn’t help notice one house that looked like it had been in the middle of a renovation and had a dumpster on the property, which sadly they will really need now, so at least they’ve got that going for them. It reminds me of a forest fire I witnessed; there were fire planes dropping water but it was like a drop compared to the size of the fire. They’re going to need a few more dumpsters.", "In a lot of those shots there's nothing left but a pad or foundation. There's just no surviving that without a storm shelter, right? Kinda reminds me of the footage from Joplin, MO all those years ago.", "At 4:00 you can see they have a hearse and are recovering bodies in the rubble.", "[ Jump to 04:00 @ Referenced Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97b_FKG660o&t=0h4m0s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Live Storms Media, Video Popularity: 97.90%, Video Length: [04:36])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@03:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97b_FKG660o&t=0h3m55s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "So is that town just gone now. or do they somehow rebuild?", "It's possible to survive that without a storm shelter, you just have to be very lucky. People have been found alive under collapsed buildings all the time whether it be from bombs, earthquakes or tornadoes.", "Reminds me a bit of Paradise, CA after the fires. In short, it’s up to the people but unlikely. Many will leave because they need to live somewhere and construction costs and delays will be monumental. \n\nSmall towns like these don’t have the infrastructure to shelter 1,000s of suddenly homeless people and if they do want to rebuild their home, it may be years before they can get a contractor out.\n\nIt’s sad, many people will lose their “home”, not in the sense of shelter, but community." ]	7	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/-6s6ytN3Awo	/r/videos/comments/re3jwn/this_is_like_if_jack_black_made_a_fishingcooking/	[ "This is awesome", "this rules and he deserves way more subscribers", "This dude is great!" ]	3	videos	This is like if Jack Black made a fishing/cooking show and I love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48G4qr37Bnc	/r/videos/comments/re3l21/your_local_radio_djs_fake_celeb_chat_scam_the/	[ "Tech moan is so good", "Techmoan is one of maybe... three? Youtube channels I follow where every single video is just so damn good. Up there with Captain Disillusion and LGR and maybe Technology Connections.", "Cathode Ray Dude", "I think I figured this out really early in my teenage years and every radio interview after that was pretty much ruined for me.", "Local entertainment news reporters do this too, but with prerecorded video segments. In those \"interviews,\" the interviewer and the star are never seen in the same shot, or if they are, it's some green screen trickery.", "Cathode Ray Dude fucking rules", "Never even heard of it! Will check it out. Thanks." ]	7	videos	Your local Radio DJ's fake celeb chat scam - The open-ended interview
https://youtu.be/oN2ZxDOoLjU	/r/videos/comments/re43ms/i_just_want_to_play_slayer_in_halo_infinite/	[ "I still can't believe the stupid fucking dev team manager is giving so few fucks about putting in the most basic of game modes, it's like they don't actually want their game to succeed or something", "Lol, damn this made me laugh so much. Well done OP!!", "They’re dropping the mode selection in May I think. I’d rather have the features when they work well than have them put it out broken.", "Holy shit it’s gonna take 6 fucking months to simply allow you to chose your preferred game mod?\n\nThere is no way they aren’t holding it back.\n\nGame will be dead by then. They killed their own momentum.", "I'll give the other side here.\n\nFuck this guy, just play the game you'll get plenty of slayer matches. Stop leaving and ruining it for your team. I hope karma continues to fuck you over and you need to keep searching and always get Stronghold.", "You say that like this is a job that takes 5 months plan and execute. As if this thing has never been done before by any team, especially 343 themselves.", "It's pretty much RNG whether you get slayer or not. You can flip a coin 100 times and get heads every time, not an even 50/50 split.", "I’m just glad what we got so far is good. The game lost 2 lead devs, there was obviously problems to deal with. If you’ve ever worked in production that can really cripple a project.", "So, play a game I don't want to play, because I might later be allowed to play the game I want to play now?", "Maybe you should get to choose to play only attack on capture the flag too. Defence is too boring.\n\nHow about only joining games half-way through and tight to get more good games in? \n\nMaybe search for games only in maps that spawns a Warthog in it.\n\nIts just a mix of things you might not like as much, that's okay and I'm sure you'll get plenty of slayer matches in. Don't be a dick and leave and ruin it for 7 other players. Don't play at all to send a message to Microsoft. I don't care, just don't be selfish.", "Full disclosure. I haven't even played the game. I put the blame on the developer though. If I've always been able to play Slayer all day, and now I have to play a game that I don't find fun, having already bought the game, I'm going to make sure I play the game I want. I understand where you're coming from in terms of being selfish though. But what if you bought Wii Sports 2 because you liked bowling, but, you had to do archery 5/10 times instead? Sure that's the game, and sure I could just not play, but, I'd still blame the developer for providing a shitty experience, rather than blame the consumer for trying to maximize their value.", "One of Halo's strengths was always playlists. They threw it away for what?", "Slayer playlist is dropping next week. No chance this game will be dead by May unless they do something crazy to fuck it up." ]	13	videos	I just want to play slayer in halo infinite
https://youtu.be/-imwmeNelQI	/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/	[ "this really threw me for a loop, I thought it was more rural and over crowded.", "Some solid anti Russian propaganda.", "Really interesting, thanks for sharing", "I loved the tour, but it had my arachnophobia screaming.", "If it was anti-Russian, wouldn’t the OP have called it “Ukraine” instead of “the Ukraine”?\n\nETA: Yes, I know you were speaking tongue in cheek.", "Warms my heart grandmas look the same anywhere in the world", "FFS, it's not the Ukraine. It's just Ukraine.", "Just watched a few of this guys videos, they are pretty informative and wholesome if you are at all interested in seeing what living in Ukraine is like (seemingly on a small/frugal budget).", "….for now, comrade.", "So, Ukraine is essentially rural Oklahoma", "Seriously. Do you automatically receive this apron when you're a woman in a Slavic country and turn 60?", "Ukraine ladies are hot !", "So it's not the Netherlands or the United States?", "Ladies everywhere are hot", "Very large country with lots of different styles of living.", "Why not the Ukraine", "It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'\n\n[[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] [[Reuters Styleguide](https://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=U#Ukraine)]\n\n^(Beep boop I’m a bot)", "Video never turned to the smoker walking along , sad", "[from wikipedia:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine)\n>The use of \"the Ukraine\", is officially deprecated by the Ukrainian government and many English language media publications.\n\n>Ukraine (Україна) is the official full name of the country, as stated in the Ukrainian Declaration of Independence and Constitution; there is no official alternative long name.", "Especially babushka", "They just appear.", "Why \"France\" and not \"The France\"?", "The Ukraine, it is not.", "It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'\n\n[[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] [[Reuters Styleguide](https://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=U#Ukraine)]\n\n^(Beep boop I’m a bot)", "Man that chick is so hot. There's some nice side boob action at 2:48", "Ukraine means \"on the edge/border\" so in the soviet times it was referred to as the Ukraine as the edge of the Soviet Union. Presently, some Russians still say The Ukraine as a pejorative, but Ukrainians prefer it to be just Ukraine.", "Well, it's not the England, or the France.", "But it is the Gambia or the Philippines", "This warms my heart to watch. I moved to Canada when I was 7, but this is exactly how I remember the little house my grandmother lived in.", "[ Jump to 02:48 @ VILLAGE IN UKRAINE, how people live 4K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-imwmeNelQI&t=0h2m48s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: pavlo from ukraine, Video Popularity: 96.45%, Video Length: [05:29])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@02:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-imwmeNelQI&t=0h2m43s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "That's udderly inappropriate!", "It's almost like different places have different naming schemes.", "Ukraine not “the Ukraine.” It’s not the name of the country, there’s no definite article in Ukrainian or Russian, and it has a pro-Soviet/Russian political connotation. \n\nSource: part Ukrainian and lived in Kyiv for 2 years.\n\nAlso live* and like", "I suppose it is largely based on the desire of the country. Each place has its own history and reason. It isn't The England but there is The United Kingdom. It seems like those in Ukraine find it insulting to be called The Ukraine. Why not call El Salvador, The Savior? Why not call Germany, Deutschland?", "Jesus so poor that's nuts to not have running water", "> Presently, some Russians still say The Ukraine as a pejorative\n\nNo, just no. Please don't spread this myth. Most Russians can't speak English at all, and most of those who happen to speak English don't understand how the definite article works because articles don't exist in Russian just like they don't exist in Ukrainian. What Russians do say is \"na Ukraine\", but even that has nothing to do with their political views. It's just the preposition used in most Russian dialects. If you hear a Russian say \"the Ukraine\" it's either because they don't know when to insert a definite article or because they were taught (incorrectly) to speak that way. Also, Ukraine is Ukraine in Russian. Nobody thinks of the etymology of the word. It's like when you say \"spasibo\" in Russian it means just \"thank you\" even though the expression is literally \"God save\".\n\nI want to leave you with one thought. Despite what you may think, not everyone in Russia is a putin-loving nationalist. Not everyone is ok with what's been going on for the past 7 years. Unfortunately, everyone who tries to do something about it in Russia ends up in jail or worse sooner or later.", "Exactly and in some places they say the Ukraine", "That's true. Lots of places do call it Deutschland though", "No, the nation itself decides what it's called, both internally and internationally. Just like there are no places that call England the* England.", "Ukraine, Russia, Belarus. I bet a lot of post soviet villages look quiet similar", "Very cool, seems like a nice place, how bad are the winters there?", "Bullshit \n\n\nEdit: the thing, that our country name means \"on border\" - is a part of soviet and current russian propaganda", "The quality of life naturally rises in bigger cities. In villages there can be 500 people living. Mostly old people", "There are no dangerous species of spiders in Ukraine as I know", "If the Russians do something to affect water infrastructure, or there's a food supply issue...these people will be doing better than most. \n\nI have a book written by a US immigrant from Ukraine that talks about living off what you have around you when shit hits the fan. I guess a lot of Ukrainians were doing great until world wars and Russian occupation led to famine and poverty. He talks of how they got by and gives survivalist instruction for food storage, foraging, making medicine, etc.\n\nI wonder if many of these older people choose to live this way because they remember what happened to those who relied too much on modern society? In a place this tumultuous, and a world this uncertain...they might be able to teach everyone a little something. As they say - poor in some ways, but rich in others.", "Depends from year and place of the country. Average temperatures I would say +3C .... -10C. But couple of years ago there was -25C.", "Thats not true. Maybe villages in Belarus quite similar, but definitely not in Russia. You see, villages in Russia itself not similar one to another", "what was the name of the book? it sounds interesting", "You wrong for that 😂😂", "Pretty sure the word Ukraine means borderland.\n\nPrior to being Ukraine the area was Kyivan Rus, then absorbed into Lithuania and Polish-Lithuania then became the Cossack Hetmanate, then absorbed into czarist Russia and was referred to as a borderland and then became a republic of the soviet union when it was still referred to as, and treated as, a borderland.\n\nReferring to Ukraine as \"the Ukraine\" reinforces that history of being a borderland whereas being called just \"Ukraine\" helps establish agency.", "There is no \"The\" in Ukraine. That is an antiquated, Russian Empire term to refer to the border zone.", "The center of Kyiv Rus' cannot be the border of itself. This name is mentioned in Primary Chronicle not once, and cannot mention territory of Kyiv Rus as border. Your propaganda is created in 19 century by russian academics to support russian cultural influence in Ukraine.", "That really depends where in the country you are. If you're in Odessa or the coast, it tends to be mild. The mountains in the west are often pretty snowy, but beautiful. Frankivsk and Mukachevo are beautiful small cities in the winter, and both serve as good stopping off points to take marshrutka to get deeper into the mountains. Kyiv and central Ukraine often get a good bit of snow. I'd compare the region to the US midwest. Lviv is about the same out in the west, and I would also highly recommend here if you're a tourist.", "So amazing like Denmark in the 1950ies countryside. Like a window 70 years back in time. I swear my grandmother had an apron exactly like that.\nSo cool, thanks for sharing.", "If the national state of Ukraine wants to call itself Kyiv Rus I will happily do the same, but so long as the term is Ukraine I will try to abstain from referring to it as \"the Ukraine\" and instead call it \"Ukraine\" as most Ukrainians prefer.", "\"The office\" where you pee and pop. That caught me off guard", ">I will try to abstain from referring to it as \"the Ukraine\" and instead call it \"Ukraine\" as most Ukrainians prefer\n\nSo do I. Because I am Ukrainian. But I oppose to the false accusations, that name of my country relates to the meaning of \"border\"", "Agreed, currently I don't think that is the meaning of the word. The origin of the word does mean border which was the point of my post. Russians referred to the territory/republic and now nation as a borderland. \n\n\nWhile current Ukrainians don't see it that way, obviously, some Russians do. Which is one of the reasons they say \"the Ukraine\" instead of just \"Ukraine\"", "Pretty sure he was joking", "My no! It looks like there's deteriorated corrugated asbestos cement all over the property. The fences, the roofs, the well cover...", "Like strawberry and butterscotch candy here in the states?", "Tell that to Dedushka, he'll 👊 you so hard your head'll be like DEDUSHK when it hits the floor.", "No, not Carnation! We're talking about babushka obviously", "more magical than baby delivery cranes", ">some Russians do\n\nWell obviously they would, the govermental propaganda incepts that and I dont want it to spread", "Drop the \"The.\" Just \"Ukraine.\" It's cleaner", "Damn, 24 liters of milk per day", "Who is lile?", "Not much love making in that.", "-25 makes for hard living. I guess it won't stay that low for long.", "The babushka uniform appears on all russian women when they become grandmothers.", "seems very sustainable. I liked the part where he described an action as peep and pop haha.", "This deserves more updoots.", "Not in America.", "Because it's not Ohio State", "Go to 4:36", "Just to clarify this is also rural Ukraine, most people don't live like this.", "I realize that…", "When you get to three grammatical errors in the title you should just delete the post and start over", "Yes! Exactly! No one knows when or how. It just happens.", "Babushka eating healthy. Not freakin out over weeds and using deadly poison to kill weeds.", "His channel has very wholesome content.", "Okay", "lile and love", "Nor men", "and \\like not 'lile'\n\nI think that just about covers all the errors in the title", "you’re", "Also his girlfriend", "Yeah this title is just a trainwreck...", "[ Jump to 04:36 @ VILLAGE IN UKRAINE, how people live 4K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-imwmeNelQI&t=0h4m36s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: pavlo from ukraine, Video Popularity: 96.46%, Video Length: [05:29])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@04:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-imwmeNelQI&t=0h4m31s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "It would be cool if these guys learned to build a rocket mass heater for their house. They could use much less wood to heat it in winter.", "How does the fridge well work? Does the ground keep water cool, which cools the container?", "It’s like you went back 200 years in time. No running water, no plumbing. I assume they must have electricity but maybe not central heat. \n\nI also thought that would get a good place if I was in the walking dead.", "Welcome to the Reddit", "Do cow’s generally make ~24 liters of milk/day?! That’s a shit ton of milk!", "A Ukrainian American told me that adding \"the\" makes it seem like it's a territory or region as opposed to its own country.", "\\> what the Ukraine is like\n\nwhat a village in Ukraine is like", "Ahh that makes sense. Definitely won't be calling it the Ukraine anymore", "and its Ukraine, not The Ukraine", "Oh hell yeah! That’s a big onion!", "\"Like\" but with a typo.", "Beautiful. Thank you!", "Babusha has a lot of property. Otherwise, it's very typical from what you'd see in most post-Soviet extreme rural areas, Baltic grandmas places will look very similar.", "The Ukraine girls really knock me out", "Idk, but he loves there.", "Where you do \"business\"", "Where babushka peep and pop.", "Ok!", "He seems nice.", "The Lost Ways. My uncle gifted me the book. Seems like a scam on the scared doomsday prepper crowd, especially by the websites that offer it. I have ordered the book since, and you need to be careful. All the websites that carry it won't leave you alone. \n\nBut I have a yard and garden and can forage for some of these things. And I actually want to learn more. Keep it on the shelf if you need it kind of thing. \n\nAfter looking it up...Writers grandparents were from Ukraine. Still, knowledge he got. But it also takes a lot of native American stuff and shows north American plants and tricks you can use to your advantage. Pretty interesting. I just hate that the book comes from such a crap seller.", "The United States, The United Kingdom, The United Arab Emirates, The USSR, The Netherlands, The Congo, The Bahamas, The Philippines etc. \n\nPeople can get off of this high horse on the name of this country. Most \"U\" countries experienced by English are lead by \"The\". It's a mistake. Not one to be lambasted as it is by everyone on a band wagon thinking they are superior for pointing it out in internet forums.\n\nEdit: all the counties not lead by U that I sampled are completely incorrect also. Did you know that? No.", "In Slavic Country apron wears you.", "The thing these have in common is that they are plural, not what letter they start with. The U in every one stands for the same thing... Union. A plurality of states.", "Boink", "May good protect this place from conflict.", "у краина. at the border/edge from when rus was an empire. the ukraine's favorite national hero gogol considered himself a devout russian, even if a western one.\n\nperhaps it's this anger of historical and linguistic reality that causes the region to promote Stepan Bandera as their great liberator, or have azovkis fly swastikas.", "Hi, native speaker here - it is a Russian thing. Russian doesn't have articles like English, so native speakers who learn English will often (but not always) incorrectly use \"the\". I've heard it a million times from tons of immigrants.", "This also applies to a lot of Eastern Europe.", "There was a pump in a well of some sort. Maybe for the animals, but I would think it was for the house?", "Guess again.", "Ого! Хорошее хозяйство 👍🏻", "I've heard native speakers (of Russian, since you couldn't connect that dot...) make this mistake without any type of formal schooling. You're grasping at straws.", "Yeah, the people I met were faking it? Typical reddit. Random guy makes crap up, tries to die on troll hill.", "You said: \n\n> It's kind of hilarious how yanks think that \"the Ukraine\" is a Russian thing.\n\nAnd I explained to you that ENGLISH-SPEAKING Russian natives will make this mistake and say things like \"the Ukraine\", which can make it hard for others to tell what the appropriate phrase is. It's not some weird \"the media did it wrong\" trend, it's confusion perpetrated unwittingly by people as a result of the language. You clearly don't know much about the language, so why are you even replying?\n\nIf it still doesn't make sense, you should stop commenting (but we know you won't).", "Called it.", "You did your best, that's all that matters. Keep it up, champ :)", "As a European, they seem very similar to me.", "It's sad to imagine what the semi hot chick is gonna turn into in 10 yrs :(", "Babusha has a lot of property. Otherwise, it's very typical from what you'd see in most post-Soviet extreme rural areas, Baltic grandmas places will look very similar.", "It's a good effort for an old cow, but yeah 20 litres ish would be normal.\n\nSmall farms usually make lots of butter for storage.", "Timestamp for the dimepiece in the thumbnail ?", "What a coincidence that nice videos about Ukraine and its army are on the frontpage suddenly!", "Well, if you will be looking closely, you will notice differences in ornaments, traditional building structures etc.", ">у краина. at the border/edge from when rus was an empire\n\nAgain, that's not true. The name of Ukraine, adverted in the meaning of territory and country, can be found in Primary Chronicle of Kyiv Rus'. \nMeanwhile Gogol was born in Ukraine, he isn't our hero, thought he written a lot about Ukraine. \nStepan Bandera refused to cooperate with nazi and spent WW2 in concentration camp. Being one of fighters for independence of Ukraine he can be considered as hero of Ukrainian people. \n\n\nAnd you, not my friend, narrating russian propaganda", "> it's not the Ukraine. It's just Ukraine.\n\nIs it run by the Gary?", "Source in primary chronicle?", "[https://books.google.com.ua/books?hl=ru&id=qvXTAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=україна](https://books.google.com.ua/books?hl=ru&id=qvXTAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=україна) \n\n\nEdit: here you can download translation in pdf: [http://resource.history.org.ua/item/0006367](http://resource.history.org.ua/item/0006367) \n\n\nMentions should be on pages: 573, 426, 375, 432, 434, 347, 343", "A GG reference??", "this is Timothy Snyder/ Masha Gessen style Anti-Putinist propaganda", "Got 'em!", "https://youtu.be/PEgk2v6KntY", "Oh no not anti-Putin!", "one must NEVER be anti-putin", ">and how people love there\n\nAnd how the people in the village cuddle", "Because \"the the borderlands\" is redundant.", "Thank you for your reply, I hope you have a great Christmas :)", "The above comment was stolen from [this one](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/ho7ivdg/) elsewhere in this comment section.\n\nIt is probably not a coincidence; here is some more evidence against this user:\n\nPlagiarized \| Original\n-------- \| -----------\n[> I remember running into...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/ho8ijzi/) \| [I remember running into t...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/ho76o3m/)\n[> I clicked on this post...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho8iqa7/) \| [I clicked on this post be...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho85ww2/)\n[> Some people carry staph...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho8ipjx/) \| [Some people carry staph o...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho7e51k/)\n[As a lifelong Ducks fan,...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/ho8imst/) \| [As a lifelong Ducks fan,...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/ho87a5f/)\n[Hey if it doesn't turn he...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/ho8ilrt/) \| [Hey if it doesn't turn he...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/ho8h8qu/)\n\nbeep boop, I'm a bot -\|:] It is this bot's opinion that [/u/NoTaxfg](https://np.reddit.com/u/NoTaxfg/) should be banned for karma manipulation. Don't feel bad, they are probably a bot too.\n\nConfused? Read the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/reply-guy-bot/comments/n9fpva/faq/?plagiarist=NoTaxfg) for info on how I work and why I exist.", "lol, he said peep and pop, which actually sounds better I think!", "I was gonna say, I've not been to the US, but this looks very much like some of the more oldschool farmhouses I've seen in the UK. \n\nThe ramshackle nature of the fences and stuff could be right out of an allotment in any UK city.\n\nIts both surprising and NOT surprising how similar a lot of the world actually is. \n\nSimilarly its striking how just minor things like the architecture of the house, can tip you off that you're \"not in Kansas anymore\"." ]	152	videos	This guy shows us what the Ukraine is lile and how people love there
https://youtu.be/VWLFiDmyj5E	/r/videos/comments/re495b/bad_drivers_getting_instant_karma/	[ "Bad drivers often lack situational awareness that results in them driving poorly and not seeing law enforcement nearby.", "I enjoy these videos. It's almost like watching stand up", "First driver sounded drunk af in that phone call", "what if I dont want to support the delivery guy and the company that both make such a reality where its more important to continue delivering than to properly address the car accident?", "this is like a form of therapy for me" ]	5	videos	Bad Drivers Getting Instant Karma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVyXlEGx6rw	/r/videos/comments/re6jhx/heres_a_video_of_quantum_jungle_my_brandnew/	[ "Quantum Jungle is my newest and largest installation by far, it was quite a crunch to get everything finished for that exhibition!\n\nI designed, built, and soldered it all together by myself. Perhaps you've seen my previous installations - [Quantum Garden](https://www.reddit.com/r/arduino/comments/9z5rdw/ive_just_finished_this_interactive_installation/) is pretty much the predecessor to this. It's been commissioned by several universities (Aalto, Helsinki, and Pisa), who provided the quantum algorithm and found the venue in Pisa.\n\nIt's built with a bunch of arduinos controlled by a PC through a network connection. If you want more details, I posted them over in /r/arduino [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arduino/comments/rdd1qv/heres_a_video_of_quantum_jungle_my_brandnew/).", "Very neat! What sort of evolution is being modeled? A 2D discrete quantum walk adapted for a hex grid?", "Yes, I think that's exactly it! Mind you, I'm not a quantum physicist, so I just use the code that the scientists give me, and make the output pretty.", "Always cool to see quantum physics being introduced to wider audiences.", "Super cool man! I read in the r/arduino post that a PC is rendering the visuals in real time. Is that your own graphics generator tool you are using, or maybe using a library, or is it one of the existing visuals softwares? Super nice animations man, well done!\n\nOh and how many nodes do you have on your sensor ESP-NOW network? Looks like you have quite a few springs/sensors, but isn't the network limit 20 nodes?", "It's just over 20 nodes actually, but it's not a problem since the 21 ESPs that handle 48 springs each (4x mpr121) are only taking to one primary esp, and the primary esp only sends occasional control commands via broadcast, so no esp has actually a client list of more than one client! \n\nI wrote the graphics generator from scratch! It looks quite neat, but the effects are quite simple - it's pretty much just expanding circles, little particles that follow the led rings, or the visualised data from the physics code.", "Well, fantastic work! Hope this opens new doors for you! :)" ]	8	videos	Here's a video of Quantum Jungle, my brand-new playful art installation that simulates quantum particle movement using Schrödinger's Equation when you wobble any of its 1008 springs!
https://youtu.be/YanygqCkOMk	/r/videos/comments/re6xr4/jar_jar_totally_not_being_a_sith_lord_for_704/	[ "r/DarthJarJar", "No matter how many times I see this theory, I always at least half believe it. He's either a VERY powerful Sith, or has some sort of Force Luck Shield on him.", "Didn't George Lucas admit to it?", "I've wondered if he was controlling any of the fish in the [Phantom Menace as well](https://youtu.be/GIAXWFCz-Rg). In the first encounter his hands seem to mimic the directions of the approaching Goober fish. In the second encounter he passes out right before the giant monster attacks the fish they are being pursued by again, and you can see his mouth making chewing motions right as he wakes up.", "Yeah but he chickened out of keeping that storyline after how poor Jar Jar was received in Ep 1", "No. Everyone always cites the line where he's like \"Jar Jar is the key to everything\" but he wasn't talking about being a Sith Lord he was talking about making kids engaged in the movies so they would buy more action figures and shit.", "I mean, in reality he's the target of a powerful George Lucas Plot Device.", "Not that great of a Sith Lord considering f he ends up as a street performer on Naboo" ]	8	videos	Jar Jar totally not being a Sith Lord for 7:04
https://youtu.be/kSFIGHdtd_g	/r/videos/comments/re7fez/thanks_for_the_support_totally_not_mark_final/	[ "Taking a stand for a good cause, riling up millions of people supporting you, then immediately backing out. I understand the pressure but come on", "In the YouTuber Vs Toei batte, mental illness wins? Bummer\n\nGuess that’s the downside of being one guy vs a company. Cant imagine a company making a decision like this for anxiety reasons", "Because it more than likely wasn't the pressure and as he said at the start something came up becoming a problem that he didn't think would.\n\nI'd imagine a proper legal threat or a stern email from YouTube (something along those lines) was involved and he doesn't want to say what and add fuel to the fire, so backing down and saying let's move on is the best option for him.", "doubt, from what ive gathered from scouring comments there seems to be major pushback from the japanese audience against his actions which they see as blackmail, upon seeing this he probably backed down", "how could this possibly be blackmail and why would he give a shit if the japanese audience don't like it?", "[He's had all this coming for a while.](https://www.designbyhumans.com/shop/t-shirt/men/totally-not-merch/1427279/)", "> well they say that he's implying that he'll encourage people to blackmail toei if they don't bend to his will. And that that's blackmail.\n\n>Why would he give a shit about what the Japanese audience thinks? Probs because he cares about Japanese culture and whether they are right or not what they say has an effect on him", "by definition, threat of a boycott isn't blackmail. he wasnt threatening to release incriminating or damaging information, he was retaliating against them for abusing youtube's automated dmca process.", "And why are you arguing this with me and expecting me to respond?", "i'm not arguing with you, i'm just saying it doesn't make sense.", "It's about time someone took a strong stance against people selling fan art!\n\nSaid no one ever.", "And what if it was the reverse. What if Toei took something mark made and sold it. Would you be cool with it then?", "Setting aside the differences in intent, power dynamics, profitability, the fact that one is a corporation and one is an individual artist which changes how harm and risk work, and the fact that Toei doesn't have a YouTube channel dedicated to raising awareness of Totally Not Mark's various products, no.\n\nI would not care if Toei paid an artist to do a fan drawing of one of Totally Not Mark's OCs and sold a T-shirt with it on it, and regardless of whether or not he had a problem with it, it would not harm his ability to make money as someone who makes YouTube videos.\n\nNot really the gotcha question you thought that was.", "So do you go into conventions and turn over the tables of t-shirts and prints of fanart, like Jesus turning tables over in the temple?\n\nBecause that's the exact same shit as what you're trying to call out here, and no, those people are not IP holders and do not have the rights to sell their fanart. The IP holders look the other way because a) advertising benefits them b) they aren't competing against fanart and c) crushing small artists is a bad look. \n\nBut no, you're right. He's a thief.", "I'm not trying to gotcha you I'm just trying to talk. You don't have to be so extra.", "You don't have to be so smarmy, but here we are." ]	16	videos	Thanks for the support. (Totally Not Mark final Toei Videos Delisting Update)
https://youtu.be/ybkkiGtJmkM	/r/videos/comments/re7hw8/how_did_the_enigma_machine_work_jared_owen/	[ "Enigma balls lmaooo", "que interesante", "Awesome video! What a cool machine.\n\nI watched the first 80% of the video shocked that it was a simple substitution cypher, until he finally mentioned that the encoding wheels rotate on every keypress. Devilish. Probably should have mentioned that earlier, at around 8:30.\n\nI wish the video discussed decryption at all. I get how the path from a key to a bulb is hardcoded by the machine configuration, but I don't get how, for example, if `E` is connected to `X` that this makes `X` connected to `E` for decryption.", "The path is symmetrical in the system. (battery) Key, peg, wheel (reflector) wheel, peg, key (light). The light circuit goes through the key, so the circuit begins and ends with the same 2 keys if you press the input or output key. Only the path, upper or lower, through the key switch changes, lighting up the output light, or the input light.", "[ Jump to 08:30 @ How did the Enigma Machine work?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybkkiGtJmkM&t=0h8m30s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Jared Owen, Video Popularity: 99.18%, Video Length: [19:26])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybkkiGtJmkM&t=0h8m25s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "Since everyone got their settings sheet once a month the one decrypting would get the same result by setting the machine according to what is prescribed for that day.", "Seems that you'd only be able to communicate between 2 machines reliably. As soon as you try to communicate with anyone else your wheels would be all amuck.", "at the beginning on the message the wheels are reset, whenever a new message is made it has to be reset. that way as long as you know when the message was sent you will be able decode it.", "If you enjoyed this video you should watch The Imitation Game movie.", "Part of its weakness is the reflector wheel and the rotation. Because of its design it meant letter can never be encrypted to itself, it was always something else.\n\nAs far as decryption goes, the process is the same as encryption. One would reset wheel positions to specific numbers for that day, then enter the message again. Electricity would just flow the other way around.", "I actually got to see and touch a real Enigma machine after a presentation by Numberphile at my local university. \n\nThis video explained it better than Numberphile guy (Dr James Grime) did, and that's high praise indeed. But I'm a lot better at understanding things when explained visually so I guess there's that." ]	11	videos	How did the Enigma Machine work? - Jared Owen Animations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SumH4BzVl64	/r/videos/comments/re7n19/john_cena_if_you_call_taiwan_a_country/	[ "Not funny.", "Fucking just took me to some YT ad about …i don’t even know what it was about", "I don't get it", "mostly [this](https://youtu.be/XI2IkPNteO4), John Cena declaring his love to the CCP", "Damn, hadn't heard of this. \n\nPretty messed up", "I bet the sinophobes over at r/worldnews would think this is peak comedy", "the first 30 seconds are real, he really called Taiwan a country and then released a video where he apologized for legitimizing a free democratic nation.", "BING CHILLING!", "taiwan numba one", "I'd rather hear from the Taiwanese.", "Oh right, if anyone doesn't repeat the CIA line then they're a bot.", "OK, let me know if they think this lame skit is funny.", "How do you know which ones are bots?", "china numba four", "Lol if you think the CIA had anything to do with China/Taiwan", "Never mess with Jong Xina", "japan numba 2", "Do people think that thai restaurants serve food from taiwan? If that's part of the joke, then okay, I'm just checking.", "You like Jordan Peterson lololol", "The joke is that \"Thai one\" sounds a bit like \"Taiwan\", and maybe John Cena's hearing isn't so good, i don't know.", "-500 social credit score.", "https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/taiwan-us-military-trainers-china", "LAO GAN MA!", "Weird…no one’s made any snarky, baseless accusations of you being a CCP troll/shill, yet. \n\nREDDIT, ARE YOU OKAY?? BLINK TWICE IF YOU NEED HELP!", "mambo numba 5", "A wild Wub Cub", "So can you highlight the part where the CIA was involved in the Chinese Civil War? Or how the CIA made Taiwan a democratic state? Or How the CIA made Xi Jinping insist on reunification?\n\nBecause all I seem to see in there is the CIA providing negligible military assistance long after the current situation was already established.", "Im a bit out of the loop here. Is John Cena a Chinese shill now? Wasn't it that long ago that the Houston Rocket apologized to China over something as well? I know it's not the first time people, companies or other entities do it. In a way I kinda get it. China is a HUGE market. They def wanna be in their favor. But it's also kinda sad when someone you respect does something like that :/", "or how the CIA made the communist pussies sit back and watch the Kuomintang take all the casualties then swoop in afterwards. Oh wait no, that was just commies being pussy commies.", "Your Stool Bus post isn't funny.", "Yes that's the joke", "Yup. He's a massive shill now.", "You respect a a steroid/PED freak?", "The \"Thai one\" sounds like Taiwan dumdum", "The point was saying \"Thai one\" sounds like \"Taiwan\" my dude", "This can't be real.", "Wake up - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/world/asia/john-cena-taiwan-apology.html", "Everything he said in that video is real.", "I don't understand the purpose of this link. Are you suggesting that because the US military currently has an alliance with Taiwan that means the CIA is the reason for the division between Taiwan/China?", "Damn, forgot countries didn't exist back before the UN could tell them so.", "YOU CANT SEE ME MY TIME IS NOW", "Well yeah. After granted over 650 wishes to terminally ill children, I gotta respect that.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z88zeQ25pjQ\n\nIt's insanely surreal and disturbing. Some That Funny Feeling shit. Apparently he's fluent though which is really impressive.", "Because nobody that uses steroids is worthy of respect", "If she wearing a Con Bro Chill hoodie?\n\nVery cool!", "Bing Chilling.", "Gtfo CCP boii", "He bent his ass over to get fucked by the imperialistic/genocidal CCP party for money. Kind of like supporting Nazi Germany because their economy sells your movies so well.\n\n“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”\n\nHistory repeats itself.", "Tf r u still here 共匪", "The. Chili. Sauce.", "> kinda sad when someone you respect does something like that\n\nYou either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain….", "Wow, that was even more pathetic than I imagined. What a bitch.", "There are a fuckton of people who don't realize they are different places.", "Xue hua piao piao🥚", "they usually come in all angry accusing people of being CIA", ">Kind of like supporting Nazi Germany because their economy sells your movies so well.\n\nthis actually happened right? im not just imagining it? like a lot of celebrities in the 30s and 40s were casual anti-semites and then the nazis spring up and theyre like hey, perfect\n\nthank god there was no cAnCeL cUlTuRe back then, those poor anti-semetic actors would have been fired and their livelihoods destroyed ;( /s", "Before all this, I knew that he held the record for more make-a-wish wishes granted, which I thought was pretty cool. Now, I think he's a guy that did a cool thing and now did a really shitty one.", "the acting is so good it looks like porn", "Fuck the CCP", "More like John Cena being this thin skinned and anything that has the conotation of Taiwan gets him riled up. At least thats what I got from the joke in the video.", "Cerspence is the goat", "Taiwan is a country.\n\nTaiwan is a country.\n\nTaiwan is a country.\n\nTaiwan is a country.\n\nTaiwan is a country.\n\nTaiwan is a country.\n\nEdit: The CCP showed up at my door and now I’m going to a reeducation camp. Bye.\n\nEdit2: Went to sleep after posting this, figured CCP trolls would have downvoted it out of sight. Thank you all, spread the word!", "John Cena, Terry Crews and LeBron James. All CCP ass kissers.", "I mean, a huge plurality of Americans (if not an outright majority) were pretty pro-nazi early on. The nazis were toying with popular concepts at the time, stuff a lot of people like to memory-hole because it's embarrassing now. Theories on eugenics, for example, were very popular in the western world before the nazis actually tried to put them into practice.\n\nIt was really only when the holocaust was confirmed that Americans definitively turned on the nazis. Anyone who likes to pretend otherwise is usually just a 'murrica rah-rah type.", "I'm gonna be the one who says it. But when referring to something as \"Thai\", you're referring to Thailand, not Taiwan. So, conceivably, John Cena shouldn't have had a problem.", "Now I can’t get a social credit card", "That's strange that the apology is posted above with the exact same audio but different subtitles. Are you passing off a modified late night comedy show joke footage as the actual apology?\n\nBecause that's pretty nefarious. In fact, officially it looked like he never mentioned Taiwan or Tibet at all. But now I imagine hundreds of people will see your post and assume even worse things happened than did. \n\nHe offered a shallow, hollow apology to appeal to China. But it did not contain the allegations of your video.\n\nhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/actor-john-cena-apologizes-after-taiwan-comment-n1268526\n\n>He did not elaborate on what exactly he was apologizing for and did not directly mention Taiwan.", "You can't see me. (because the labor camp im in isn't on any maps.)", "Same goes for Mussolini, we loved us some Il Duce over here.", "Better be careful or all his defenders will rush in here saying a man with an estimated net worth of $50 million dollars HAD to do this to protect his acting career and future. If he didn't he might starve or not be able to act in another pointless big budget Hollywood picture.", "> CCP party\n\nChinese Communist Party Party\n\nheh", "His Mandarin is pretty broken, but better than most foreigners.", "That's not the point of that joke. She says \"The Thai one?\" As in \"Taiwan\"", "Cherdleys?", "Hitler really fucked up the idea of eugenics. It makes perfect sense to selectively breed ourselves: by choice. Hell, we already do that with sperm donation and sexual selection presently. Eugenics can be done well: through education, and family planning. As long as you don't force it on people it remains perfectly ethical. Just give people the ability to make those choices for themselves and they by and large will.", "Always good to see Ryan the leader on my front page", "I wouldn’t trust humans to selectively breed ourselves beyond how we already do.\n\nEuropean Royal families did it and ended up with genetic diseases.\n\nEver seen a pug? We’ll all end up like pugs.", "I'm fully aware, dingus. It's Taiwanese, not Thai. The subtitles say Thai.", "Those are all examples of inbreeding. Eugenics would kind of be the opposite of that, you're selectively breeding to get rid of unwanted traits (things like genetic disease, mental handicaps, etc). Not saying it's a great idea, but what you mentioned isn't really what's being talked about.", "The CIA has been fucking around in China for decades, but of course the real division was when Mao kicked the right-wings asses and forced them to flee there.", "Yeah, those pussies for winning a civil war. Which commies were the biggest pussies, the ones in China or the ones in Vietnam who kicked the USA's ass after beating Japan and France?", "Dudes a simp", "I don't think you understand what a bot is", "You can look up CIA operations in China like Operation Yellowbird and NED funding of organizations there", "Fuck this anti American communist", "Again, not really relevant in regards to Chinese/Taiwanese relations…", "Definitely the ones in China who were kicked out by the Vietnamese in 3 weeks the last time they tried to defend their genocidal puppets in the region.", "Looking at the casualties would not give the indication that the Viet Cong kicked anyone’s ass, rather just hid in holes until people were tired of dealing with them.", "In the original response as to the CIA line I was referring to the narrative anti-China narrative that's being pushed. Take this piece published in The Hill written by a CIA operative gearing us up for war, https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/582767-america-must-prepare-for-war-with-china-over-taiwan", "Someone's a sore loser.", "The subtitles say Thai because that's what she was referring to. A Thai restaurant. It's not a \"Tai restaurant,\" you dingus.", "Wusheng", "Bu yao shuo huang!", "According to both your country and mine, Taiwan is a region of China.\n\nBut posting edgy nonsense on Rddit is super brave, so good work.", "Lmao, you don't get it. Saying the \"Thai one\" sounds like Taiwan.", "Why don't people understand me? \"Tai\" doesn't exist, its \"Taiwanese\". She said \"Thai restaurant\". Why would Cena have an issue with that?", "What is a Taiwan?", "Taiwan, officially the Republic of China (ROC), is a country in East Asia. It shares maritime borders with the People's Republic of China (PRC) to the northwest, Japan to the northeast, and the Philippines to the south.\n\nMore details here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan> \n\n\n\nThis comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!\n\n[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(\|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(\|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(\|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)", "You're allowed to have independent thoughts and opinions.\n\nUnless you're Chinese, I guess.", "It's not super surprising when you look at the fact that [WWE did a $450+ million deal with the Saudi government literally at the same time that the Khashoggi murder happened](https://www.givemesport.com/1362981-details-of-wwes-10year-deal-with-saudi-arabia-revealed), and they yearly do a show for the Saudi government for something like $50 million per show.\n\nCena was the WWE golden child, of course he has the same shill mentality as them.", "Terry Crews now too? Well shit that’s unfortunate.", "When every important country in the world and every important Government body in the world all agree that Taiwan is a Chinese island, then going online and saying \"No! It's a real country!\" looks kind'a stupid.\n\nLike, lul, what? According to who? Literally nobody thinks that.", "It's \"Thai\".", "That's their New Year gala", "Nah, cuz the bot users type their pro Chinese shit and upvote themselves with like 20 bots per second.", "Do you like fish sticks?", "A little bit of Monica in my life", "ok bro", "We like try crews, so delet that", "Ah. Thank you", "From this video I gather he said something that had a meaning which was hurtful to Chinese people, and he regrets saying something that could hurt a people he clearly cares about (learned the language).", "For those who might not be convinced about this claim... \n\n[This was 1939 New York. A \"Pro America\" Rally, which was, as you can clearly see, a mega fascist Nazi rally.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9yst4W-6c)", "So anyways back to the original point: the CIA had nothing to do with the division between Taiwan and China.", ">Why don't people understand me?\n\nBecause you are aggressively not understanding a simple pun.", "He said Taiwan was a country. China got mad and threatened to pull the new Fast movie. He apologized because I’m sure one of his bosses told him to. As well as the fact that he learned the language to prepare to promote WWE in China and get shows over there.\n\nDudes a shill sure, but I still feel like people are overreacting. So many other people and businesses are in bed with China, the world would shut down if they stopped working with the US. It’s easy to be self righteous from behind a computer screen.", "Fans want John Cena to put his career on the line for Taiwan, but they won't stop seeing suck-ass superhero movies that are exactly the same as all the other suck-ass superhero movies to hold [Hollywood](https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a36542951/john-cena-apology-china-taiwan-explained/) accountable for making him apologize.\n\nReddit destroyed hedge funds for allegedly breaking SEC short-selling rules or some shit. How about turning that rage on something that can actually improve human rights.", "i dont get it. dumm", "The problem with the many kinds of things eugenics promises to fix, they're in reality incredibly complicated things which most eugenicists don't understand. It's not as simple as breeding dogs for speed or size. And different people have different ideas on how to go about this. Inevitably, people will get to that discussion of enforcing it \"for the general wellbeing of the people.\"\n\nAnd frankly, I don't trust the kind of assholes who will end up in positions of power to not make horrifyingly bad decisions regarding this.", "The exact thing he said was: \"Taiwan is the first country that gets to watch Fast & Furious 9\" in an interview with Taiwanese news, because the premiere timing in Taiwan put it ahead of every other market.", "+100 FICO credit score! Soon you will be able to mortgage a house!", "John Cena is based", ">Like, lul, what? According to who? Literally nobody thinks that.\n\nThe taiwan government and its people do think that, for one. I'm pretty sure that counts for something.", "> So many other people and businesses are in bed with China, the world would shut down if they stopped working with the US.\n\nBut that's THE reason TO give him shit for it; \n\nYou're promoting despondence.", "Can I get mine but how man!", "What's a pun? Is it Thai?", "The pun, also known as paronomasia, is a form of word play that exploits multiple meanings of a term, or of similar-sounding words, for an intended humorous or rhetorical effect. These ambiguities can arise from the intentional use of homophonic, homographic, metonymic, or figurative language.\n\nMore details here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun> \n\n\n\nThis comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!\n\n[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(\|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(\|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(\|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)", "Literally the only thing that happens if Cena doesn’t apologize is the film doesn’t get played in China and Cena maybe gets black listed. Maybe he doesn’t. Maybe Cena is edited out and they reshoot his scenes with another actor and edit that guy in.\n\nRegardless, only one person loses and that’s Cena. Nothing else changes. \n\nI don’t know what people expect him to do. Possibly give up his career to make a statement that no one will care about in a week?\n\nIt’s easy to say you would do it, but would you actually be willing to do it? I highly doubt a lot of people would.\n\nPeople can hate on him all they want or make fun or him, but he’s not a bad person. He broke the record for most make a wishes ever granted. He busted his ass for years doing charity work or making appearances. \n\nHe choose his career over making a statement and many would do the same, regardless of the money.", "Found the American!", "I appreciate that the Mandarin was accurate.", "Nice try Winnie-the-Pooh. Totally the same kind of score.", "LMAOOOO", "Upvote for Rosarita beans. Love them", "> So many other people and businesses are in bed with China\n\nBasically all American industry. As worker rights progress, the owner class have to find another class of labour to fill the hole of exploitation for max growth. Corporate America sold us out decades ago. \n\nSeems to me John Cena is a lightning rod protecting this open truth from outrage.", "Probably the movie studio that forced him to do it.", "John Cena, the actor wannabe, mentioned Taiwan is a country and soon after China was pissed. He went on to give an apology to China, in laughable Mandarin. The years of wrestling basically destroyed his backbone/spine.\n\nSo the joke here is, if you called Taiwan is a country, John Cena will personally come to get you, even the mention of Taiwan or the sound of it as in \"Thai one.\"", "Bruh how the fuck do you not know what a play on words is", "Like the Basques and their Government who consider themselves separate from Spain? Lul, nobody else does.\n\nYou gonna start spamming “NO, IT’S SOUTH BASQUE!” anytime someone mentions Spain?", "You move the goalpost with every single response. It’s not even worth talking to you", "Just like a communist to consider throwing bodies at something “winning”…", "John Cena is fucking CCP boot licking sell-out.", "50 dkp minus", "Fuck Jong Xina", "> Possibly give up his career to make a statement that no one will care about in a week?\n\nYet we are still talking about it half a year later...", "What did Terry say?", "What a disappointment. I wasn’t a big fan or anything before, but I can’t respect someone who caves in on an issue like this just so they can make even more of a fortune by being a shill.", "According to your country, your not supposed to be on Reddit. -1000 social credit score.", "Damn, how else will you be able to buy respect?", "You’re comparing apples to motor vehicles. Taiwan is a self sufficient democracy. If you want to compare Basques you should use that on Tibet.", "Oh my god the fucking refried beans with a straw, I'm dying LOL", "Do you think if someone asked a random person if Taiwan and Thailand were the same place, a “fuckton” of people would agree it was the same place?", "The us military kept creating enemies by mislabeling potential allies out of fear and expediency, it's not about being a pussy. The more they killed the more they were outnumbered. It's like the hammer only sees nails. It's the same problem with china's government. Theyre hamfisted.", "That’s not an apt comparison. You’re being purposefully dishonest or accidentally ignorant.\n\nThe Basques are more similar to Texas wanting to be it’s own country as opposed to Taiwan. Texas operates while being fully dependent on the governmental systems of the USA, its resources, its laws, etc. \n\nTaiwan is a completely self sustaining democracy wholly divorced from any involvement of china’s, governmental, industrial, culturally, etc. It isn’t the same situation at all.", "I too read the title", ">When every important country in the world and every important Government body in the world all agree that Taiwan is a Chinese island\n\n?? Is the United States, Japan, UK, France, Canada, etc. not considered important countries to you? Most developed countries do not recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC.", "> ?? Is the United States, Japan, UK, France, Canada, etc. not considered important countries to you? Most developed countries do not recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC.\n\nNot a single one of those countries recognises Taiwan as an independent nation.", "She didn't say Thai restaurant, she said \"Thai one\" which is the pun. \"Thai one\" \"Taiwan\". They're the same phonetically", "It's a perfect analogy, a region that considers itself autonomous and seperate that isn't actually and that nobody else thinks.\n\nWestern media has been stirring the pot with propoganda the last few years, that's the only difference and the only reason you care about Taiwan but couldn't give less of a shit about Basque.", "Not an argument.", "It's an entirely apt comparison. a region that considers itself autonomous and seperate that isn't actually and that nobody else thinks.\n\nWestern media has been stirring the pot with propoganda the last few years, that's the only difference and the only reason you care about Taiwan but couldn't give less of a shit about Basque.", "China does their own publicly by forcing bad faith on everyone working with taiwan. And also hong Cong and ulghars, loan sharking, organ harvesting, tiennamen square, isolationism, thought control. Right now you're operating in bad faith. And that's soul crushing. If that were my job I would be really depressed.", "Might want to tell the US government to delete their country factbook page for Taiwan and stop talking about defending the country in the event of a Chinese invasion when they already consider it part of China then?\n\nhttps://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/taiwan/", "What keeps us safe is not online anonymity, but our lack of importance. Fortunes can change over time. You may find yourself called up to answer for an \"anonymous\" comment made years ago on sites run by companies with Chinese ownership or investment.", "I mean, there's a lot of \"pro-American\" rallies held by dudes in red caps that are clearly mega fascist Nazi rallies in the present day.", "[The Skyrim version of this apology is absolute gold.](https://youtu.be/xJ0GGzVY6uU)", "Former marine bowing to a foreign power", "TLDR: It won't change the course of history, but it still isn't good. The more normal and accepted it becomes for westerners to toe to the party line of the CCP, the more brazen the CCP will be in its misdeeds.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIt's a bit more complicated than that. And to be clear, Cena benefits tremendously from his Make-A-Wish visits. He volunteers a bit of his time to make kids smile, his public perception soars, and people see his movies. Cena is not a great actor; people see his movies because he is recognizable and likable.\n\nChina engages in what some call [economic imperialism.](https://www.cato.org/commentary/america-should-oppose-chinas-economic-imperialism) The way this manifests for most western countries is that, in order to participate in the Chinese market, foreign parties are required to adopt rhetoric favorable to the CCP's political agenda. In Australia and the rest of Asia, the effects of China's economic imperialism are more impactful, but that's a story for another time.\n\nChina is clearly positioning itself to take over Taiwan, which would have devastating consequences for the Taiwanese. Doing so would also have undesirable repercussions for mainland China, mainly in diplomatic blowback/economic sanctions for other countries. The further the CCP can cast doubt on the legitimacy of Taiwan as a country, the less blowback there will be when they do eventually take over. So the CCP bully every foreign interest they interact with into erasing \"Taiwan\" from their vocabulary - perhaps a small price for companies to pay for access to such a massive market. \n\nI assume that most people here knew all of this already, at least to some degree. Unless you're a tankie or a CCP troll, you hopefully agree that what the CCP is doing here is bad and that the CCP taking over Taiwan is a bad thing.\n\nBut whose responsibility is it to stand up for Taiwan? It's true, an individual company standing up to China's economic imperialism would be shooting itself in the foot. Companies are inherently driven be profit, and have no reason to engage in selfless acts. They are abstract, amoral collections of people and assets that either maximize profit or cease to exist. Nobody would expects Universal or WWE or any other company to volunteer to handicap themselves in defiance of the CCP.\n\nBut individuals are not companies. John Cena is wealthier than you or I will ever dream to be, and he would continue to be so until the day he dies even if he didn't post the video and the CCP pulled his stupid movie. Whatever moral compass or code of ethics he might possess as a human being did not prevent him from making this decision. He instead groveled to the CCP, and apologized for implying the existence of Taiwan as a country. His decision isn't going to change the outcome of history, but each tacit acknowledgment of the CCP's authority over Taiwan erodes the diplomatic and economic barriers to the former's takeover of the latter. It would be a selfless sacrifice on Cena's part to jeopardize his opportunities in China by refusing to retract his comment, but it would ultimately be a good, if symbolic, act. I don't resent him for doing what he did, but I certainly don't have any respect for it. \n\nStill, it's unsettling and gross to grovel to a foreign authoritarian regime. The apology video is fucking weird. That's why we have the parody video here. Cena's reputation in the US will suffer slightly, but I don't think his fanbase here cares too much about the CCP or Taiwan.\n\nIn the big picture, real change will only come from governments working together to thwart the CCP's economic imperialism. If the blowback against Cena brings attention to the issue and helps motivate governments to take necessary measures, I'm 110% for it. The CCP's status as \"too big to defy\" in terms of global trade is extremely dangerous.", "Bīngqílín", "Similar in many ways. US movie studios wanted access to the German market and self censored to appease Nazis. Charlie Chaplin went bankrupt self funding The Dictator (a Hitler parody) becuase Hollywood wouldn't touch it.", "ok tankie \n\n\nYour comment just left me with a worse view of china than before. China -5 points.", "This is very funny. YOU HAVE HAD 2,000 SOCIAL CREDITS DEDUCTED FROM YOUR SOCIAL SCORE, YOU ARE BANISHED FROM CHINA!", "You should look up the definition of nefarious before you call people it.", "He’s a shill for $$$ but he’s already projected at a net worth of $60 Million. Why does he need MORE money, especially from a country that is anti-feminism in men, anti-LGBTQ+, and actively committing genocide?\n\nFuck John Cena.", "Yeah why would you need a backbone when you can have lots of m o n e y right?", "Taiwan is a country, fuckers.", "Tankies tanking. You think people don’t see you for who you are?", "Winnie the Pooh and his regime can suck a giant dick.", "Do you get paid per comment tankie?", "Puerto Rico? Haiti?", "“Whelps left side!!!!!”", "Wow that is super weird, like really weird, how is the word “information” the same in English and Chinese? That’s so odd", "He was pushing some kind of workout supplements in China and posted something like \"POWER TO THE PEOPLES\" while standing in front of a Chinese flag. \n\nIt probably was Terry Crews being his usual hyped up and ultra positive Terry Crews but it didnt look good as news about the Chinese \"vocational training centers\" had broken a year before.", "tiananmen square", "Uhh... Thai food isn't from Taiwan (the country), it's from a different country (that is also a country, just like the country called Taiwan) called Thailand.", "I bet 99 percent of Redditors would make the same decision", "John Cena is an idiot, but anyone who keeps calling “Taiwan” as the official name of the nation, is not doing better than him. In fact, Taiwan is the name of the island, but not the official name of the country. The official name of the country is The Republic of China, or 中華民國，or you can call it ROC, and it is an independent nation with legitimate government worked independently from PRC. Western world used to think ROC is the better version of China, compared to Soviet’s love child PRC’s communist China. No matter how much PRC claims “Taiwan” as part of them, it is not! In fact, PRC stole the mainland China from ROC back in 1949 and declared the independence from ROC, so PRC has been lying that Taiwan belongs to them, or claim ROC does not exist anymore! \n\nIt is the most idiotic logic if you think about it. If a bully bullying you in school, and threaten anyone who wish to be friends with you, they took your lunch money and took your place in the school club that you founded (in this case it’s the United Nation), and told everyone you seize to exist as a human, should you believe you actually not human anymore? That is the lie PRC spread about ROC for the last 70+years, and many people actually believe it, including some Taiwanese themselves! PRC told the world that ROC does not exist as the legitimate nation, but the irony is, ROC was one of the 4 founding members of UN before PRC even exist.\n\nI am from Taiwan, so if you call my mother country “Taiwan”, I thank for your enthusiasm but I wish you didn’t do that. Taiwanese people don’t care if you call their country Taiwan or ROC, as long as you don’t consider their nation belongs to PRC, you’re good to go.\n\nXi and PRC is absolutely evil and acted like big bully, so it is no reason to apologize to them! I also think Hollywood celebrities should stop apologizing to PRC, Taiwanese people don’t mind if you make a mistake calling “Taiwan” as their nation, but they will absolutely hate you if you turned around and feel sorry that you offended PRC!", "By 1939 most Americans supported backing England, Poland and France with supplies but wanted peace. By 1940 that changed, most Americans rejected the idea of trading Czechoslovakia and Poland territory to Germany in exchange for peace. \n\nhttps://news.gallup.com/vault/265865/gallup-vault-opinion-start-world-war.aspx", "Bringing up whataboutisms about America to deflect from the original criticism of China is voluntary participation in the Chinese social credit system. Which is a weird thing to do if you don't even live in China and the Chinese government have zero authority on your liberties. Why are you volunteering to be a useful idiot for their anti-human right propaganda?\n\nBTW let's not forget the fact that Taiwan is a sovereign country.", "> He offered a shallow, hollow apology to appeal to China.\n\nSo what was he apologising for?", "> official\n\nAccording to the people in* Taiwan?", "CCP all over this thread, Iranian intelligence [all over another thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/realoo/woman_by_her_birthday_cake_in_tehran_iran_2021_42/), Ruskies all over any western politics thread.\n\nReddit - The one stop shop for foreign intelligence propaganda.\n\nEdit: Have a poke around a few of the profiles from the 'Controversial' comments and see exactly what I mean. I'll be over here polishing my hat.", "with that logic, Puerto Rico is a sovereign country too.\n\nunfortunately (for the west) we can´t change history.", "TWO NUMBA 9's", "Zhan Xina\n\n(zh is a 'j' sound in Chinese)", "(The joke is \"the THAI ONE\" sounds like \"the TAIWAN.\" It's funnier because the woman didn't even mean to say or reference Taiwan, but it still triggered the event just because it sounded similar.)", "CAN'T FUCK WHAT YOU CAN'T SEE!", "Always got mad respect for Jack Kirby. https://kirbywithoutwords.tumblr.com/post/156186711797/another-time-jack-took-a-call-a-voice-on-the\n\n\n“Another time, Jack took a call. A voice on the other end said, ‘There are three of us down here in the lobby. We want to see the guy who does this disgusting comic book and show him what real Nazis would do to his Captain America.’\n\nTo the horror of others in the office, Kirby rolled up his sleeves and headed downstairs. The callers, however, were gone by the time he arrived.\n\nYears later, he told an interviewer, 'I once got a letter from a Nazi who told me to pick out any lamppost I wanted on Times Square, because when Hitler arrived, they’d hang me from it. It was typical of a genre of fans who have long since died out.’”\n\n\n— Kirby: King Of Comics by Mark Evanier (pages 55-56)", "It's not that the word is \"the same\" in both languages. It's just that languages often borrow words from each other. They're called loan words. For example English uses tons of loan words from Greek, Arabic, Hindi, and other languages, but we don't really notice day to day.", "oh hey i already had you tagged as a chinese shill, nice to see the tag system working.", "Found the racist!", "Since when is American a race?", "The one video where subs are needed. Fix the audio.", "Nah zh is different from j slightly.\n\nJiang Cena works better.", "The joke is \"Thai one?\" sounds like Taiwan.", "Why you asking me? I'm pointing out he didn't outright say Taiwan isn't a country and say Tibet isn't even a real place. \n\nOutside those facts my own stake in this is over.", "You're calling me a racist, but not the dude that said \"Chong bing bong\"?\n\nInteresting...", "Not a lot gets me anymore but that is some unsettling shit. I never realized how close* Hitler came to like world domination (within reason of course). Never new that video existed nor that event occurring. \n \nIt's funny, \"pro america\" yet the initial speaker has a thick German accent\n \nClearly did not learn from history, so here we are basically repeating it", "Please don’t associate us with this person.", "Exactly. Rich enough to live the rest of his life in luxury but still wants to bend over for more $$$", "\"America First\" was literally an American Nazi slogan, originally. The more things change, etc., etc.", "天安门大屠杀\n\nDoesn't your government have a massacre that happened on June 3 1989 to cover up?", "Fuck west Taiwan and fuck Xinnie the Pooh!", "Zhong Xina sees and hears all.", "Whats the exchange rate on Yuan currently?", "Take this opportunity to realize your spouting complete nonsense in an attempt to spread hate. I don't give a shit about John or China. I take umbrage with people using lies. You would see someone pointing out that the subtitles are being manipulated and suggest that they are the ones being manipulated. \n\nBuddy, you're a tool. You're being used.", "\"Duuuur defend this thing I hate\"\n\nNo\n\n\"COMMUNIST!\"\n\nSuch a dipshit comment dude.", "> spouting complete nonsense\n\nWhere?\n\n\n> in an attempt to spread hate\n\nHow?\n\n\n> You would see someone pointing out that the subtitles are being manipulated and suggest that they are the ones being manipulated.\n\nWhere did I say/do that exactly, buddy?\n\nFor someone that appears to know me and my motivations so well, you missed the part where I didn't suggest otherwise. I asked you if you knew what he was apologising for. You had no asnwer.\n\n\n> Buddy, you're a tool.\n\nOooh, what brand? Can I be Black and Decker?\n\n\n> You're being used.\n\nNice, what for? Home rennovation? General DIY? A hobby activity?", "> \"Duuuur defend this thing I hate\"\n\nWhere did I say that?\n\n\n> \"COMMUNIST!\"\n\nOr that?\n\n\n> Such a dipshit comment dude.\n\nYou do have a knack for posting that kind of comment, yeah.", "What's your angle? To defend the manipulated subtitles where it suggest John said Taiwan and Tibet didn't exist? Because there is an issue here - John's association with China and whatever that means. Maybe that should be discussed. Maybe that has merit. You know what doesn't? The above video. One full of lies. So you are a hate peddler. You would even suggest someone attempting to get the honest truth is employed by the CCP. So you're dishonest too.\n\nThe issue with fake social justice warriors such as yourself is your tendency to create enemies and opposition where none exist. You take legitimate issues, and corrupt them with lies to become absolutely no better than the issues you attempt to rectify.\n\nSo, stop being evil. It's a pretty basic thing to do.", "“Speak Chinese like a servant dog “\n🐕", "You woke up today and decided to just spread evil eh?", "> What's your angle?\n\nWondered if you had any information on what he was apologising for, maybe a source.\n\n\n> To defend the manipulated subtitles where it suggest John said Taiwan and Tibet didn't exist?\n\nDon't remember doing that at all - can you point out how or where?\n\n> Because there is an issue here - John's association with China and whatever that means. Maybe that should be discussed. Maybe that has merit.\n\nCompletely agree. Hence why I asked if you knew what he was apologising for.\n\n\n> You know what doesn't? The above video. One full of lies. So you are a hate peddler.\n\nDo you think you are replying to the OP who posted that video? Because if so, you've made a whoopsie - it isn't me. I just asked you a question you're avoiding answering.\n\n> You would even suggest someone attempting to get the honest truth is employed by the CCP. So you're dishonest too.\n\nThat was a bit of fun because you're being obnoxious.\n\n\n> The issue with fake social justice warriors such as yourself\n\nThere we are with the accusations again.\n\n\n> your tendency to create enemies and opposition where none exist.\n\nWhere did I do that?\n\n> You take legitimate issues, and corrupt them with lies to become absolutely no better than the issues you attempt to rectify.\n\nOr that?\n\n> So, stop being evil. It's a pretty basic thing to do.\n\nWhere am I being evil, exactly?\n\n\nSo far, beyond poking fun at you with the 'yuan' comment, the only one of us who has made up anything at all is you.\n\n\nBut carry on manufacturing nonesense based on the fact I asked you a question you're still contiuing to avoid answering - I've not done or said a single thing you've accused me of and you're only making yourself look a berk.", "> You woke up today\n\nCorrect. I did in fact wake up today.\n\n> decided to just spread evil eh?\n\nWhere, how or when did that happen? I must have missed it.\n\nAnother question you won't answer: Do you think I posted that video?\n\nYou might want to compare usernames between the poster of that video and mine...", ">So far, beyond poking fun at you with the 'yuan' comment, the only one of us who has made up anything at all is you.\n\nYou suggest somebody is employed by the CCP because they wouldn't directly engross themselves personally in this debate? You are more than dishonest. That issue you so easily deflect from is the entire point. You already know this, so get over it dude. You're completely out of line and don't have a position to take that alleviates you from that. Stop being a dishonest person in conversation and you won't have issues going forward.", "It WaS JuSt a JoKe.\n\nYou are not a good person. You don't add to debates. You directly interject lies and than try to act like you did not in the idea it \"was just having fun\". \n\nSure dude. You're lies are so much fun. You're such a fun liar.", "> You suggest somebody is employed by the CCP because they wouldn't directly engross themselves personally in this debate?\n\nHold the phone, did you not reply to the video comment with [this reply](https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re7n19/john_cena_if_you_call_taiwan_a_country/ho7aou4/) - getting yourself personally involved?\n\nI just asked you if you happened to know what he was apologising for since you appeared to know what he wasn't apologising for.\n\n> That issue you so easily deflect from is the entire point.\n\nProjecting. I asked you a question you've spent several replies avoiding.\n\n> You already know this, so get over it dude.\n\nYou keep replying, so I keep pointing out that I've not done a single thing you've accused me of and that you've not answered a very simple question that could have the answer \"I have no idea.\".\n\n> You're completely out of line and don't have a position to take that alleviates you from that.\n\nShould I bother to ask for evidence of that, or are you going to dodge that question as well?\n\n> Stop being a dishonest person in conversation and you won't have issues going forward.\n\nBeyond the 'Yaun' comment, you've repeatedly accused me of being dishonest without a single shred of proof.\n\n\nKeep whittering on though. It's an interesting insight in to the world you're building in your head - I'd love to know about all of the other things I never did there!", "Oh, I'm sorry did I not expressly tell you exactly how invested I was in this conflict? That I took umbrage with posting joke subtitles as the honest to god truth?\n\nAnd than you like a jerk suggested I worked for the CCP? Yeah, you might be projecting there. You're great at derailing debates and maybe false accusations. Maybe you know the rate.", "> It WaS JuSt a JoKe.\n\nSuggesting you know the exchange rate for Yuan was, yeah.\n\nAsking you if you knew what the apology was actually about I was very serious about and would still love to know if you do in fact know what he was apologising for.\n\nI'll even remind you that you have an 'out' - you're answer can simply be 'I have no idea'. I would accept that quite happily.\n\n> You are not a good person. You don't add to debates.\n\nI asked you a question based on the topic you've responded to - how does that detract from the debate?\n\n> You directly interject lies and than try to act like you did not in the idea it \"was just having fun\". \n\nWhere?\n\n> Sure dude. You're lies are so much fun. You're such a fun liar.\n\nAgain, where?\n\n\n\nYou've made accusations that I'm a liar and that I'm not a good person based solely of the following reply:\n\n>So what was he apologising for?\n\nPlease point out in what way, shape or form that either proves or leads you to believe a single thing you've accused me of?\n\n\nAccusing someone else of lying without proof makes someone a 'bad person'. Accusing someone else of being a 'bad person' based off an accusation you have no proof of makes someone a 'bad person'.\n\n\nI suppose, despite your references to 'debate', you'll just keep slinging baseless accusations and dodging any form of question.", ">slinging baseless accusations and dodging any form of question.\n\nNah bro it's just a joke. All those sentences directly about the subject matter clearly are dodging.", "> Oh, I'm sorry did I not expressly tell you exactly how invested I was in this conflict?\n\nInvested enough to reply.\n\nI have something to tell you about Reddit - its public and* open. If you reply, you open your reply up to further replies from other users. Users like me who ask you an on-topic question based off your reply.\n\n> That I took umbrage with posting joke subtitles as the honest to god truth?\n\nI asked you a question. You appeared to have knowledge on the subject because you wrote a reply that wasn't a ten word shit-post. Asking questions from people who appear to know more about a situation is a way of learning more about that very same situation.\n\n> And than you like a jerk suggested I worked for the CCP?\n\nBecause you were being a 'jerk'.\n\n> Yeah, you might be projecting there\n\nHow?\n\n> You're great at derailing debates\n\nYou ever* going to get around to explaining that one?\n\n> Maybe you know the rate.\n\nWhat currency are you talking about converting it to? Google usually has the answer, but I can go to XEcurrency converter to get* a more accurate answer if you wish?\n\nOoh, and that* would give you the opportunity to learn two things as well:\n\n* What the exchange rate to your chosen currency currently is\n\n* How to answer a question", "So when you go around and publicly accuse people of working for the CCP in a thread thats actively spreading lies and disinformation, that's just cool for you to do?\n\nThat's something you just find acceptable?", "> Nah bro it's just a joke.\n\nThat would be surprising, since your posts suggest you are especially wound up about another Reddit user daring to ask you a question.\n\n> All those sentences directly about the subject matter clearly are dodging.\n\nThe dodging part is where I ask you questions and you don't answer.\n\n\nThe lack of answers probably has to do with much of what you've said being false and you not actually answering if you know what the apology was actually about.", "Because it's not a what I would consider a joke, none of it is funny, and I use that sentence to show you how ridiculous it is to hide behind saying such a thing.\n\nIf you think it's funny to go around and publicly accuse people of working for a communist propaganda machine, that's on you. You get to deal with how people will react to that accusation.", "> So when you go around and publicly accuse people of working for the CCP in a thread thats actively spreading lies and disinformation, that's just cool for you to do?\n\nSo when someone replies to your post asking if you have more information and you are immediately obnoxious, make accusations and evade answering the question, that's just cool for you to do?\n\nThat's something you just find acceptable?\n\n\nSee how that works? You're spouting a good deal of accusations that you've refused to provide any basis for and you've not answered a single question you've been asked despite decrying my lacking ability to debate.", "There was an article posted with my explanation. I posted everything you need to make your own decisions. Yeah, I do find that acceptable. What I don't find acceptable is demanding more information from a random who already provided everything I needed and than to accuse them of being a shill for telling them that there issue with the conflict pretty much ends at the arguing of a late night comedy show as if it was the actual translation.\n\nLiterally had an article in the statement. Go ahead accusing people of being shills for providing more information than you more.", "> Because it's not a what I would consider a joke, none of it is funny, and I use that sentence to show you how ridiculous it is to hide behind saying such a thing.\n\nI wasn't hiding behind anything. I found your reply was obnoxious and you completely avoided answering the question, so I poked fun at you.\n\n> If you think it's funny to go around and publicly accuse people of working for a communist propaganda machine, that's on you.\n\nI do write my own jokes, thank you!\n\n> You get to deal with how people will react to that accusation.\n\nAnd so do you, hence me continuing to respond by asking you where I've done any of what you've accused me of or if you actually know what the apology was about.\n\nI have the answer to the latter question though, it appears the answer is: You have no idea.\n\n\nThe former question still deserves an answer though - where did I lie about any of the things you've accused me of lying about?\n\n\nI'll give my crystal ball a quick rub and see what it says about your next reply: More accusations, no answers, absolutely no sign of the debate you keep talking about.\n\n\nLets see how the crystal ball does.\n\n\nEdit: Crystal ball was on the money. Next - the lottery numbers!", "Jungle, tycoon, alcohol, breeze, are all loaned words from other languages. Although they most likely have heavy modification. Like alcohol is \"al-kuhl\" in its original Arabic. I actually just learned that one thanks in part to Disco Elysium.", "Taiwan is not a country. What is the big deal here? Even the US government hold that stance. If they want to be one they need the ability to defense themselves. China will take over that island in a week. Taiwan had a joke of an army and the US will not support them because we are afraid to get into a war with China.", "Thats because you derailed the argument. Thats what derailing is you tool. You don't understand any of that like you don't understand you're not funny. You have shown a fundemental lack of understanding of anything from the conversation about John Cena to how you being a tool, debasing an argument to how the argument itself is being conducted, has successfully derailed the conversation from anything of merit.\n\nYou have actively detracted from the possible merits of this conversation. Congratulations. Thats not an accusation. Thats a fact. The proof of which is the fact we are on this very subject.", "This is what brainrot looks like.", "> There was an article posted with my explanation.\n\nWhich didn't answer the question that came to mind after reading your comment about how there was only circumstantial evidence that the apology was about Taiwan. Hence asking a follow up question to your post. A question you could have completely ignored because you were under no obligation to answer it.\n\n\nI continue to point to the question I asked you though because you have repeatedly accused me of things I simply haven't done so I'm pointing to the thing I actually did - ask you a question.\n\n\n> What I don't find acceptable is demanding more information from a random\n\nI didn't demand. I asked a question you could have completely ignored. I did not phrase the question with any words that would even remotely suggest a demand. I did nothing but ask you a question. Comment replies can be left both unread and unanswered.\n\n> to accuse them of being a shill\n\nWait, I'll use your reply here: It WaS JuSt a JoKe.\n\n> for telling them that there issue with the conflict pretty much ends at the arguing of a late night comedy show as if it was the actual translation.\n\nSomething I took no issue with because I'd - immediately before seeing the post and your reply - watched the actual* video with the correct subtitles posted further up in these comments. I asked you if you had any further information and you got upset about being asked a question.\n\n\nGetting this upset over being asked a six word question might be something you want to think about.", "Please, you're clearly as invested in this issue of conflict as I am at this point. You think i'm a dick for not being in a perfect state of mind to providing even more information than I have in an issue i'm not personally invested in. I think you're a dick for accusing me of being a shill for not providing more information in an issue i'm not personally invested in. Thats pretty much it. There's not much to think about.", "There have been a few actors/actresses who couldn't get a job in acting after the war was over for participating in nazi movies.\n\nCant name any out of my head.", "> Thats because you derailed the argument.\n\nAt the risk of repeating myself getting on for a dozen times now: How/where?\n\n> Thats what derailing is you tool.\n\nWhat is?\n\n> You don't understand any of that like you don't understand you're not funny.\n\nI'll take the note and work on my material, thank you.\n\n\n> debasing an argument to how the argument itself is being conducted, has successfully derailed the conversation from anything of merit.\n\nYou went from being obnoxious to making baseless accusations. I've continued to ask you for any form of proof that I did anything you've accused me of because you continue to accuse me falsely.\n\nThat is you not debating the issue and is* derailling.\n\nI've also continued to point back to my original question which you've repeatedly not answered, complained about how I demanded you answer it (which I didn't) and then accused me of detracting from a debate for which the question was intended.\n\nThat is also you not debating the issue but is derailling.\n\n> You have actively detracted from the possible merits of this conversation\n\nI asked you a question about the topic, a request for further information about the topic. That sounds pretty 'on topic' to me.\n\n> Congratulations. Thats not an accusation. Thats a fact.\n\nA fact requires proof. You've provided none, which means that it is not a fact.\n\n> The proof of which is the fact we are on this very subject.\n\nA subject you swerved the conversation to by not answering the original six word question while lying.\n\n\nThat makes you the liar.", "I don't get it", "Asked a question, got an answer as to my level of involvement, and made an accusation. \n\nYou have proof in the article. You have proof by literally finding anything that isn't a cut up video from a late night talk show. You have the link I provided. But see what you're doing here? Making an accusation toward being a \"liar\". You never made a joke about being a shill. You're directly trying to tie the statement of pointing out John Cena did not say there was no Taiwan or Tibet as the \"lie\".\n\nSo now that we've established that you were lying you even made a joke, where would you like to go from here?", "You take on three empires and see how you do", "I feel pretty good knowing most of what you listed are just right wing conspiracy theories", "How does that ccp boot taste like?", "Unless you're some government employee when incredibly high clearance, you don't know that. We have evidence it was engineered but we don't have any for it specifically being a weapon. Only research.", "Do you think for yourself liberal?", "Its not racism to absolutely detest and hate everything tankies are doing and saying, hun.", "More dots", "Thaiwan for the people in the countryside.", "> Please, you're clearly as invested in this issue of conflict as I am at this point.\n\nI am. I am quite partial to John Cena's persona even if it is superficial and a meme, so understanding if this apology is about what is being implied is important because it would change how I felt about him.\n\n> You think i'm a dick for not being in a perfect state of mind to providing even more information than I have in an issue i'm not personally invested in.\n\nNope. I thought your* reply was obnoxious. I would have been and still would be perfectly accepting of an answer along the lines of \"I don't know\". No face would be lost, it wouldn't detract from the point you made in the post I originally replied to - I just wanted to know if someone who seemed to be more informed than* many posters in the thread had any more information to satisfy my curiosity.\n\n> I think you're a dick for accusing me of being a shill\n\nPerfectly acceptable. True in fact. I was a dick...in response to what I felt was an obnoxious reply.\n\n> for not providing more information in an issue i'm not personally invested in.\n\nYou demonstrated knowledge of the subject. I wanted to know more. So I asked. You demonstrated at least some level of personal interest in the topic and I responded in the hope of finding out more if you knew more.\n\n\n> Thats pretty much it. There's not much to think about.\n\nI've only continued to repond because you've made some pretty hefty accusations about me based solely on two responses: One asking you a question and the other poking fun at you.\n\nYou were never obligated to reply. Most of the questions asked on Reddit go unanswered. Mine could happily have sat there unanswered but you took umbridge with me daring to ask you a follow up, attributing me asking you to some hidden motivations I simply don't have.\n\n\n\nI think I'll leave it here since you've very obviously gotten the wrong end of the stick, reacted poorly to a very low quality jibe and it is getting neither of us anywhere.", "Understandable, have a nice day.", "Daredevil: Bet", "And what is that? The made up genocide? Liberating Tibet from slave masters? Challenging US hegemony?", "My personal interest extends so far as to clicking the topic of this post, seeing 3 videos posted of the exact same content, and noticing the subtitles were altered from 1 video was different from 2 other videos. The 1 video that was different had the late night show logo plastered on it, and had far more insulting subtitles applied. I looked up a single article about the issue, noticed the dozens of others on the same topic, and noticed they were all a generic baseless reply to a situation that was likely a PR move to allow his movies to be shown to a larger audience.", "While I get it's not good, could it possibly be that he isn't only doing this for himself? I mean there's so many people who work on films, especially of that caliber. If their budget was based on expected profit and included China, they'd be short by a long shot. I'm not saying a movie studio can't take a hit, which they should be the ones to do it for a good cause, but they probably would opt for cutting pay or something instead of cutting ties. Maybe Cena did it for other reasons too. Kinda like Tom cruise spazzing out on the crew because of covid and their livelihoods.", "Ima be real with you tankie, im a left leaning person but i wont side with China just because its red.\n\nDont simp for the aesthetics and call everything CIA propaganda.", "I'll respond to these since you responded while I was writing [my other reply](https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re7n19/john_cena_if_you_call_taiwan_a_country/ho8ykd8/).\n\n> Asked a question\n\nI absolutely, positively, 100% did that.\n\n> got an answer as to my level of involvement\n\nWhich came off - regardless of your actual intention - as obnoxious, hence:\n\n> made an accusation.\n\nWhich I didn't even do. It was a jibe intended to imply a connection between you and the CCP because I felt your response to my question was obnoxious.\n\n\n> You have proof in the article.\n\nI didn't ever ask for proof that your original post was legitimate because I didn't need any - I'd already seen the original video further up in the comments.\n\n> But see what you're doing here? Making an accusation toward being a \"liar\"\n\nAfter wanting to know more if you had more to share.\n\n> You never made a joke about being a shill.\n\nI did. You took it as an accusation. I'll come half way and call it a jibe.\n\n> You're directly trying to tie the statement of pointing out John Cena did not say there was no Taiwan or Tibet as the \"lie\".\n\nThat sounds mighty* paranoid, friend. I asked you a question. I felt your reply was obnoxious and I responded in a way designed to either kill the conversation or rile you up. I got the latter result.\n\n> So now that we've established that you were lying you even made a joke\n\nWe've established that you've reacted poorly and taken the jibe personally. What I did was make an implication. I did not at any point state out-right that you are a CCP shill. I implied it to have a dig at you. You took the implication and got very upset about it* so have made this all about that.\n\nThat doesn't make my motivations what you say they are.\n\n\n> where would you like to go from here?\n\nWell, question unanswered, jibe having had one of the two outcomes I expected, repeated lies told about me and my motivations, this back and forth going nowhere - that'll probably be about it.", "I mean you're replying to a lot of separate points to try to make a single point that I was snarky and rude to not provide extra context. \n\nThat, points clear dude. I get that. You see how you're defensive about \n\n>repeated lies told about me and my motivations\n\nI was defensive too. Thats what happens when you make accusations that arnt funny, and in some ways, you shown you weren't joking at all. That is offensive. This isn't going nowhere. We've established exactly where this issue fell off.", "There is apologizing because you have to, and then there is what Cena did, which was more akin to groveling for forgiveness.\n\nIt's not hard to make an insincere apology. China does it all the time.", "\"Left leaning\" lol - the only people who use the term tankie are MLs joking and people who don't know anything about socialism, I'm thinking you're the latter", "Thai one, sounds like THAIWAN.", "He's XI's and hears you.", "You're expecting redditors to know basic facts about the world", "Most American have no idea what is going on outside their county. There is no world news section anywhere on their local TV coverages.", "ATTENTION CITIZEN! 市民请注意!\n\n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢁⠈⢻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⡀⠭⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠄⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣿⣷⣶⣶⡆⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⣼⣿⣿⠿⠶⠙⣿⡟⠡⣴⣿⣽⣿⣧⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣟⣭⣾⣿⣷⣶⣶⣴⣶⣿⣿⢄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⣩⣿⣿⣿⡏⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣹⡋⠘⠷⣦⣀⣠⡶⠁⠈⠁⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣍⠃⣴⣶⡔⠒⠄⣠⢀⠄⠄⠄⡨⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⡘⠿⣷⣿⠿⠟⠃⠄⠄⣠⡇⠈⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿ \n ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠋⢁⣷⣠⠄⠄⠄⠄⣀⣠⣾⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⠙⠻ \n ⡿⠟⠋⠁⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⡯⢓⣴⣾⣿⣿⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ \n ⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⡟⣷⠄⠹⣿⣿⣿⡿⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄\n\nATTENTION CITIZEN! 市民请注意!\n\nThis is the Central Intelligentsia of the Chinese Communist Party. 您的 Internet 浏览器历史记录和活动引起了我们的注意 YOUR INTERNET ACTIVITY HAS ATTRACTED OUR ATTENTION. 志們注意了 you have been found protesting in the subreddit!!!!! 這是通知你，你必須我們將接管台灣 serious crime 以及世界其他地方 100 social credits have been deducted from your account 這對我們所有未來的下屬來說都是一個重要的機會 stop the protest immediately 立即加入我們的宣傳活動，提前獲得 do not do this again! 不要再这样做! if you do not hesitate, more social credits ( -11115 social credits )will be subtracted from your profile, resulting in the subtraction of ration supplies. (由人民供应部重新分配 ccp) you'll also be sent into a re-education camp in the xinjiang uyghur autonomous zone. \n\n为党争光! Glory to the CCP!", "Taiwan number 1, China number 4", "I really enjoyed Disco Elysium and I hope you did too!", "I been to Taiwan many times. It’s very nice but it certainly is not a county. Even most Taiwan people know their only future is with China. America just want to use Taiwan to keep China in check. In reality no one cares about Taiwan and the people living there. Taiwan does the most business by far with China. Why would they want to throw their future away?", ">\tWhen every important country in the world and every important Government body in the world all agree that Taiwan is a Chinese island\n\nNo they don’t. Chinese people need visas to go most anywhere (except for places like Tongo and Uzbekistan). Taiwanese people can go to nearly 80 countries (and all first world nations) without a visa. Countries can’t discriminate between regions of a single country in giving visas, so clearly they treat Taiwan as a different country.", "You mad cuz it accurately describes your ideology.\n\n1956 (Hungary) and 1989 (Tiananmen square) both shows how you guys would rather use tanks and bulldoze over not just a different country but also your very own people for being more democratic.", "You completely ignore the point of the skit just to reiterate \"Taiwan is not a country.\" I knew it wouldn't take long to dredge up the shills lmao", "Toph Beifong: Bet", "USA numba 8 okay?", "You can't see me. (because the neighbourhood where I grew up was demolished)", "Back in the spring, Cena was giving an interview to a Taiwanese broadcaster and made the mortal sin of accidentally referring to it as a country (\"Taiwan is the first country to watch Fast and Furious 9.\")\n\nDays later he posted video on Weibo speaking totally in Mandarin and looking like a god damn hostage, where he said he was \"very, very, very, very, very\" sorry about his mistake and loves and respects China. Sorry! Sorry! Sorry!\n\nIt was bizarre and concerning.", "😝", "Yes, whether the whole world like to ignore the official name or not, nor if PRC wished that ROC does not exist anymore, and keeps calling it “Taiwan”, the reality is, the official name of the nation still not called “Taiwan” but the Republic of China. It is official on every government institution, official documents, printed on money bill and coins, that used in Taiwan and other islands under ROC’s territory! The current president Tsai is the president win the election under the law and constitution of The Republic of China, not “Taiwan”, whether she wants to admit or not, it is the reality! Just because her political party hates the name ROC, nor some young Taiwanese people does not like to call their country ROC but “Taiwan”, it does not make it non-exist nor their country name into “Taiwan”.", "You've entirely missed the point.", "People’s republic of Cena", "His slightly different than normal appearance is so uncanny valley. Him talking in Chinese makes it even stranger.", "It turns out the way to defeat the capitalist pigs was to be \"pretend\" to be capitalist pigs so much that they want to do business with you. Then they are willing to ignore all their other cultural values to kowtow to you. Then they become communists. Then you stop pretending to be capitalist. You win, world is communist utopia.", "Always has been, fucker", "Because John Cena saying \"I think Taiwan is a country\" isn't going to do anything to solve anything. Especially while the whole country buys all their shit from China anyway.", "Yeah I'm gonna be honest, I just checked the tweet, and honestly that's... Pretty mild? Like, it's a pretty nonsensical, non-committal line either which way, and just because you're standing in front of a flag of a country and have a picture taken/posted, doesn't mean you're a \"CCP ass kisser\". He's probably just trying to appeal to the average Chinese person in an attempt to sell his shit, and I mean, fair play, no?", "Don't worry, I do not! I know that most of you are awesome and I love your culture. But there's a special breed that only comes from the US.", "John Cena is big enough and rich enough that if he had wanted to, he could've just said no and faced minimal consequences. He had a choice and he chose to openly support the CCP.\n\nMan can get fucked for all I care.", "Well, no? I mean it was kinda happily part of China under KMT rule then the whole civil war thing happened.", "r/cringe lol", "\"Now they can't see you\"", "You guys do realize that the US governments official stance on Taiwan aligns with the \"one China\" policy of the CCP.\n\nSo if you want to direct your ire at anyone, direct it to your reps and senators.", "But what about the people in Taiwan?\n\nWould you/do you feel the same way about the countries who sought independence from the British Empire? Or any other now long-deflated or deceased empire?", "r/SINO is spreading like Mordor.", "Ayy it's the boys!", "The Republic of China already did take over the island.\n\nOh wait, you mean fake China on the mainland? Haha, ok.", "Fake China about to rule the world! Republic of China is fake China’s bitch! Why do I say that? Because republic of China is so afraid they can’t even declare their independence. They know well if they did fake China would go and take it over and it would be GGWP!", "And a partridge in a pear tree", "The Officer keeps retiring at strange parts. I've failed 5 times in the first day. Not even on skill check failures either, I can't figure out why it keeps happening. The last time I failed it was because I put my hands on the controls of Kitsuragi's car. Nothing indicated I'd take mental damage but it ended up causing me to black out and retire. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? My brother completed the game without ever having failed, meanwhile every step I take I end up failing.", "His Fast 9 movie was coming out at this time, and HUGE China market, so he folded like a lawn chair.\n\nApology May 25\n\nRelease June 25", "CatJam sup lads", "Phones? What's this got to do with phones? You people really are stupid.", "bro when he did the you cant see me while running in the ally i fucking died lol", "And when I mean slow \n\nI mean FUCKING slow", "Cena has been doing Make a wish since he was in WWE. Even if it was for a selfish reason, he has done 650 visits. That’s a record. He didn’t have to do that many. He could have done like 100 and still gotten that publicity. He’s done far more good in this world than most people. \n\nSecondary, no one important cares about this. No government is going “oh god the internet hates John Cena now, maybe we should stop working with China!” \n\nThe only thing, and I mean the only thing, that changes anything is if the money and supplies coming in from China stops.", "No one important is.", "I guess you do get paid per comment.", "Wubby7", "US has, and won every time. Without geocoding the opposing side, crazy right?! Also the US never opened Nazi-esque extermination and reeducation camps like China does on a daily basis. \n\n\nStay on the CCPNet because outside of your safe space nobody buys into your shitty, archaic, totalitarian ideology.", "Pussies who stood by and let their \"allies at the time\" take all the casualties, then swooped in against a ragged enemy who defended them and takes full control. Then killed millions of their own people with horrible governance and famine, along with decades of genocide. Then invaded and took control of surrounding countries claiming they were \"historically chinese\" then ethnically cleansed those populations and replaced them with Han Chinese. Then opened up concentration camps the likes the world have not seen since Nazi Germany. \n\n\nYou call throwing wave after wave of your troops to their deaths without any actual territorial gains a victory? The Chinese Military High Command are basically Zap Brannigan at this point, how can you ever be proud to be Chinese? lol \n\n\nMan you Xi-tards need a reality check. We see your shitty ideology for what it is. Garbage.", "Japanese is interesting for this, because they use a different alphabet for borrowed words, even though there is 1:1 relationship in the characters/sounds between the two alphabets. Hiragana is more round/curly and, in conjunction with Kanji, represents traditional Japanese language. Katakana is more angular and is used for borrowed words like coffee (Ko-hi), McDonalds (Ma-ku-do-na-ru-do), or for proper nouns, company names, emphasis, onomatopoeia, if you want to signify someone is speaking like a robot or a foreign accent, etc.\n\nI was never very good with Kanji, but it's surprisingly not too bad to read Japanese using both Hiragana and Katakana. It would be like reading a letter in English where someone mixed cursive and block letters. They all make the same sounds.", "Yeah I'm convinced if that Hitler waited another 5 years we would have joined him.", "That is why you cannot have forced eugenics. Giving people the knowledge and means to self select is probably the only ethical option. People will self select for children with traits they feel are beneficial. This also means different people will select for different traits (which is good). Some countries already do this to a degree: [Iceland](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/down-syndrome-iceland/) has almost completely eliminated down-syndrom. They didn't need to exterminate people or even force them to do anything. They simply give people the ability to make the choice for themselves.", "Hmmm that is odd. I grabbed it on steam when it first came out and haven't played it in a while. I never experienced anything like you mentioned. Does the primordial brain speak to you when you black out? Could be one of the dialog options. Have you tried save-scumming?", "He wanted Xi Jin's Ping", "I love hedphelym by apex twin!", "Unpopular opinion: But didn't Taiwan kinda bring it on themselves by calling their country \"Republic of China\". How about just dropping that name and concept.", "Put those tiny hands up.", "I don't know the context behind this whole john cena thing, but this skit is funny as fuck. When he looks out the window and the dude is running down the alleyway.... lol!", "Yeah, you're right. The social credit score in China is focused on businesses. In America it can leave you without a house.", "Look up America's rate of incarceration.", "America doesn't recognize it either.", "America doesn't think so.", "And they're wrong.", "I mean, I can't imagine many Americans feeling this way if America had it's own Taiwan. Some kind of confederate holdout state.", "A NUMBA 9 LARGE", "Yeah when I black out I get a few dialogue options but all of them are some form of \"fuck it I give up.\" Pretty annoying, I have no idea what's going on. I'm probably going to save right before interacting with Kitsuragi's car and try every option to figure out what is happening in that particular scene. The other times were with Cuno, I just assume I don't have the empathy skills to deal with that little shit.", "> holy shit american's are brainwashed\n\nNot American, try again buddo!\n\nEdit: hehe deleted the comment after dropping a clanger.", "Wow, comparing Taiwan to the confederate states. You're all kinds of asshole, aren't you?", "What? Who is doing more to support Taiwan than the US?", "What makes you believe this is an unfair comparison? You a big fan of the Republic of China or something?", "Again. The US does not recognize them as their own country. And why would they? Would we, if the situation was applied here? Hell no.", "Taiwan isn't fighting a civil war over the right to own slaves? wtf is wrong with you?", "It is obvious in context and to act otherwise is to be intentionally obtuse.", "Oh alright, it just seemed to single out the US when we are their biggest ally and in the (distant) past have said we would defend them against China", "A little bit of Monica by my side", "Yeah no i'm not going to equate the phrases \"Taiwan is not a country\" \"Taiwan is not even a real place\" to actually having said those things. I don't really care if John Cena is sucking Mao's dick for cash. You hold him accountable for what he's actually done instead of just making shit up. More than likely, Cena was demanded by his Mickey Mouse handler to put out a statement. You guys don't need to straight up lie about shit to be critical of it.", "I had a special hate for Cuno, it might just be you aren't supposed to be doing those things yet. Try talking with Kit and seeing if he has suggestions on your next actions", "Not that part. The part where they lost a civil war. Imagine if the confederate government just fled to Hawaii or something and claimed it as their own.", "Oh look, there's the whataboutism. Can't even meme now without the shilling.", "The Taiwanese position is a little more nuanced than that. The Republic of China lays claim to the entirety of China, not just the island of Taiwan. The Taiwanese themselves don’t refer to themselves as independent for a multitude of reasons, but the two biggest are 1) it would negate their claim as the legitimate government of China, and 2) it would almost assuredly start a war with PRC. \n\nMy point is that it’s weird seeing westerners chant “Taiwan is an independent country” in an act of solidarity when the Taiwanese have a very different view of the situation.", "Americans are using this kind of double-standard nonsense to justify aggression against China. Up to and including possible conflict over Taiwan. It's definitely worth pointing out that China is neither the world's biggest, nor is it the most unique evil in the world.", "But the thing is, your typical Chinese citizen is required to beat CCP ideals into people in the interment camps for at least 4 hours per week. Much like how when the American government tortures people of interest, destabilizes governments and countries for our own economic favor, stuff like that, the average American citizen is required to have proper waterboarding training and knowledge of international affairs to be able to help with those things.\n\nAnd jokes aside, no, I'm not actually comparing america to china. The average Chinese citizen is either brainwashed, hardened, forced to fall in line, and/or actively ignore to be able live an ordinary life under their government. But much like anywhere else in the world, it's the many rich that benefit under this corruption that want to keep their status (and in china's case, possibly lives in certain situations) and help push the facade. And they're the ones with the resources to do so. The average citizen doesn't have much to do with anything, other than choosing not to go to war with their government. And not many people want to do that.", "Kinda depends on how you look at it. China's huge and likes to throw fits over this sort of thing. Thailand and friends doesn't seem to care outside of anything that threatens to actually do something politically / functionally. \nIf you're a T.V face trying to sell your face to as many people as possible AND some of those people don't care if T.V faces apologize to save face then you'll do it to sell more face.", "Excuse me, but who asked?", "We all should be. The government and media have been ramping up the Chinese fearmongering and we should be aware of it. Because we've seen what this can do.\n\nAlso I can't really say that I give too much of a shit about the \"whataboutism\" argument. If China is doing bad stuff and we're doing it as bad or worse then we should focus on changing that. Or at the very least recognize when we're being propagandized.", "God forbid people post satire videos from well known satire sites. You must get triggered every time you see The Onion", "[Jesus, it's like something straight out of Man in the High Castle.](https://i.imgur.com/yxyWVQ0.png)", "Chinese are the only ones that still think those douchey cars look cool", "But no-one did.", "When people like you try to pass off the onion as the truth than yeah, I'd get just as triggered.", "Welcome to every single cer spence video.", "Having lived in both countries- yes, absolutely.", "> we're doing it as bad or worse\n\nobviously the american prison system needs a massive overhaul, but to compare that to concentration camps that the state won't even admit exist is insanely biased. Just because genocide involves instituational racism, doesn't mean that every form of institutional racism is akin to genocide", ">but to compare that to concentration camps that the state won't even admit exist is insanely biased.\n\nThe US government doesn't even have proof this is happening. Yes, obviously religious minorities are treated poorly. But do you understand the degree to which people are actively misinformed about what is going on with their geopolitical enemies? This is Iraq all over again. Where even the lack of proof of something is somehow still proof.", "lol no proof, there's a fucking plethora of evidence, as you would expect from an event this big. And you don't have to trust the US government at face value (you shouldn't anyway) it's not like they're the only ones saying it.\n\nLook if you want to say \"we should take care of our problems first, even if they're objectively not as bad as in other countries\" I get it, just say that. It's a legitimate opinion but don't twist facts", "https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/\n\nThen where is it and why is the US government struggling so hard? And who are the other people saying it? What do they know that the government doesn't know? And how do they know it?", "You do realize your article literally opens with \"The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity\" right?\n\nThey're just saying they're not death camps.", "Right, and the definition is of course quite broad. The purpose is to cynically demonize a geopolitical enemy, no matter the consequences. Look at what it's doing to people.", "Damn, I got whooshed on that one. I watched it without audio, so that might’ve been part of why I missed it, haha.", "god the weaseling, disgusting. \n\n\"what the US is doing is just as bad\" \"OK it's not as bad, but there's no proof\" \"OK there's proof, but let's be honest \"crimes against humanity\" is so broad\" like do you ever listen to yourself?\n\n\nSeriously, I want you to consider that today you argued in favor of ignoring concentration camps by saying that crimes against humanity is a really broad term. Just sit with that for a minute.", "A region of china... with independent currency, military, president, education system, diplomatic relations, border control, legal system, governance system, different flag, different anthem, different alphabet, different passport, different visa rules for travelling in EU (no tourist visa needed)... and so on.\n\nSounds kinda like an independent country to me.", ">\"OK there's proof, but let's be honest \"crimes against humanity\" is so broad\" like do you ever listen to yourself?\n\nI haven't changed my original position here. The US is also doing crimes against humanity on a large scale. And I think it's inarguably larger. So why would we ever want to buy into their narratives for THEIR purposes?\n\n>you argued in favor of ignoring concentration camps \n\nThis is your programming, not a thing that I said.", ">The average Chinese citizen is either brainwashed, hardened, forced to fall in line, and/or actively ignore to be able live an ordinary life under their government.\n\nWhy is there never a presumption that people would prefer a higher standard of living at the expense of some freedoms? I mean who's wanting to take the trade-off of \"Yeah, your standard of living will go down. But you get facebook!\"?", "Even worse than potentially being a paid shill, can you imagine if they shilled for a genocidal country for free? That would be super embarrassing.", "Is it lame? Yep. It's based on a lame act of economic and political cowardice and true parody must contain enough of the original substance to carry the message. \n\nFunny? Also yep.", "BING CHILLING NI HAO", "I remember the 2016 election. These people you speak of are a voting bloc.", "> who's wanting to take the trade-off of \"Yeah, your standard of living will go down. But you get facebook!\"?\n\n...The entire right wing of American politics.", "It's not your position dude, it's your arguments and your logic. Like I said, I think \"we should care about our own problems first, even if they're smaller\" is a fine opinion to have, I'd even agree to a large extent. But that's not what you're saying\n\n> The US is also doing crimes against humanity on a large scale. And I think it's inarguably larger.\n\nbut I thought it 's such a broad definition? Surely some forms of it, say putting everybody with a certain religion into forced labour camps, are worse than others, right? Also do you seriously think there's nothing like that in China? Do you actually think US has all this racism, and China has just these camps?\n\nbut even assuming all that is just like you say. How does your position even follow? \n\n>So why would we ever want to buy into their narratives for THEIR purposes?\n\nWhat is this arbitrary us vs them, you're talking about your government dude. It's not as simple as \"oh they lied to us, so they're the bad guys, and we should always do the exact opposite\"\n\nIt's not even like that on an individual level, I've known compulsive liars, and you can't just assume everything they say is false, and always do the opposite lol", "Eh, it's a pretty good apology. At no point did he deny Taiwan's existence or say there is one China. \n\nJust said \"I made a mistake, I'm sorry. I love China and Chinese people\".\n\nYou could say \"mistake\" infers it, but it's still not an explicit and direct utterance of China's stance.", "You like to ignore that the \"peaceful\" protestors in Hungary were hanging people in the street and next to Tiananment Square were burning people alive in vehicles before any tanks came in.", "I hope so, I'm still waiting for my check. It's probably in the mail along with yours from George Soros.", "Nazi death marches were inspired by the Trail of Tears, the first concentration camps were of indigenous peoples in the Americas, the Nazi gas chambers were inspired by the gasoline baths on the US-Mexico border, anti-Semitic laws in Nazi Germany were based on US Jim Crow laws, and the uranium that the US used to incinerate innocent civilians in Japan came from concentration camps in the Congo. Meanwhile the extermination camps in China are a creation of right-wing neocon think tanks in the US and evangelicals in Germany.", ">the Japanese were in control until 1952 after the civil war was done.\n\nWhere are you getting 1952 from? The Japanese gave up Taiwan in 1945 when they lost WW2. KMT didn't get kicked out of mainland china until 1949. So I guess it was only about 4 years. \n\n\nEdit: Oh I see, \"the Allies considered Taiwan and the Penghu Islands to be under military occupation and still under Japanese sovereignty until 1952, when the Treaty of San Francisco took effect.\"", "lol I'm not even asian but Chinese people have plenty to be proud of you racist", ">but I thought it 's such a broad definition?\n\nWe don't even have to look at our insane rate of incarceration. Look at the weapons we give and who we give them to. Look at our foreign interventions. Where are China's foreign interventions and forever wars? Who looks like the greater force for instability, the one bombing the middle east or the one investing in Africa?\n\n>What is this arbitrary us vs them, you're talking about your government dude. \n\nAgain. Consider what the purpose of this campaign of propaganda is. To foster hate towards China. Why give into that?", "China is a totalitarian state, Taiwan is a democracy.", "Okay. By most reasonable definitions Taiwan would still be part of Chinese territory. Or at the very least not Taiwan's territory.", ">We don't even have to look at our insane rate of incarceration. Look at the weapons we give and who we give them to. Look at our foreign interventions. Where are China's foreign interventions and forever wars? Who looks like the greater force for instability, the one bombing the middle east or the one investing in Africa?\n\nit's not a competition... You can criticize both China and the US. I do it all the time, I did it just two comments ago. \n\n>Again. Consider what the purpose of this campaign of propaganda is. To foster hate towards China. Why give into that?\n\nwell my government doesn't foster hate as much as yours, so I guess that means I'm ok in that department, by your logic at least\n\nI mean seriously... If someone told me, the dude next door tortures children in his basement, and it turns out that while he does torture children, the other guy didn't really care about the children, he just hated the guy... that doesn't really change my opinion on the first one now does it", ">it's not a competition... You can criticize both China and the US. I do it all the time, I did it just two comments ago.\n\nDo you feel like there is even a competition to how critical Americans are of America versus China? There are people who literally want to threaten war against China over Taiwan. How many people would these people get killed over that shit?\n\n>well my government doesn't foster hate as much as yours, so I guess that means I'm ok in that department, by your logic at least\n\nYeah I'll keep that in mind how un-hateful our government is when I see someone implying Chinese people are like insects.", "doesn't explain why he needs to bend over and make an apology video...\n\nif it was CCP support through inaction that would be one thing", "> Yeah I'll keep that in mind how un-hateful our government is when I see someone implying Chinese people are like insects.\n\nlol dude, I didn't realize I'd have to make it ultra clear for you, I've said it two times now: I'M NOT FROM THE US \n\nanyway this discussion is over, it's kinda frustrating trying to use logic with you, bye\n\n-e- honestly really funny how you keep going on about propaganda, but you don't address any arguments directly, all you do is appeal to emotions, precisely what propaganda does. You get accused of being a shill a lot, I bet, quick look at your history seems to confirm that. Maybe think about why that is.", "I can never tell if communist sympathizers are brainwashed or off their meds. That last sentence may be the most fanciful thing I’ve ever seen uttered as if it were self-evident.", "It makes sense too. At first I was confused and slightly frustrated when learning Japanese because I was thinking \"why the hell does katakana even exist, why do I need to learn TWO alphabets for the exact same syllables?\". But it actually makes for an easy switch in your mind when a loan or onomatopoeic word comes up, it's like a sudden \"stop translating and start sounding it out\". \n\nAt least for the most part.\n\nThen I also remembered that English has two main alphabets as well, CAPITAL and lower case, with a lot of the letters looking completely different from each other.", "That is actually a really good comeback..", "I not only agree, but would add the CCP are far, far worse than terrorists.", "The only thing I hate more than CCP sympathisers, is the CCP itself. Free Hong Hong, and good luck to Taiwan, no one likes China.", "Find some sources that don't trace back to the Henry Kissinger Institute or Adrian Zenz, who says his goal is to bring Christianity to China.", "You got me. The only source i have that you’re off your meds is from Kissinger himself. Should have seen through the deception.", "Hey it's up to you if you want to believe the same people that lied us into war with Iraq.", "Lol, pick a lane, buddy" ]	395	videos	John Cena if you call Taiwan a country
https://youtu.be/LjdHL8komgI	/r/videos/comments/re7q5t/footage_of_a_very_young_norm_macdonald_talking/	[ "And by young I mean 26.", "Right? Kinda spooky.", "Time really do be like that" ]	3	videos	Footage of a very young Norm Macdonald talking about Live Aid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESqAvQee8DE&t=281s	/r/videos/comments/re7uho/a_great_dissection_of_why_the_wheel_of_time_feels/	[ "Good critique but the show has far more positives than negatives and is legitimately great.", "Her comparison to the Witcher is spot on. Witcher is thin weak source material done right. The Wheel of Time is thick rich source material done wrong.", "I'm tired of how dark so many modern shows are. I appreciate the extra light so I can actually see the people and the sets.", "What was Witcher's source material like? Half of Cavill's dialogue is either grunting or the word fuck used as a complete sentence (i.e. his finest acting work to date).", "This problem just gets worse the more I age. I just want to be able to see whats happening comfortably damn it" ]	5	videos	A great dissection of why The Wheel of Time feels so off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ibmzcmmPtM	/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/	[ "Sports, eh? How interesting. Not.", "Do you invalidate the subjective values and hobbies of your clients too? You know, since you're a counselor and all.", "Yet here you are? 🤔", "That's interesting. I was always under the impression that the way this works is that you slide the puck onto the blade that you push down on the ice and not putting pressure on the puck to lift it that way.", "Maybe I'm in the minority here but I HATE bitch ass goals like this. It's not special or difficult. It's just cheap.", "How can you hate a goal that has never happened in the NHL before?", "It has been done before.", "when", "https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/a-brief-history-of-the-zorro-goal-aka-the-lacrosse-goal-aka-the-michigan-3473057 with variations", "Yeah, Ima need proof on that claim, friend.", "https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/a-brief-history-of-the-zorro-goal-aka-the-lacrosse-goal-aka-the-michigan-3473057", "Nothing is worth sitting thru a 15 sec commercial", "Title is clickbait, I wanted to see actual ducks doing trick shots", "The Michigan is a completely different type of goal. Zegras does the build up but the actual goal is scored by Milano batting his pass out of mid air.", "With a high stick...", "show us yourself lifting the puck like that and putting it where you need to be. Easily. like an every day thing (i.e. not special).\n\nshow us your moves, _twerpl_", "The language of the article still makes it seem pretty special, so that other guy is still bein a jerk about it IMO.", "nah, it's more like how you jump with a skateboard.", "At this rate I'm expecting them to pull off the flying V, the triple deke, and a knuckle puck by the end of the season", "It was reviewed bud.", "Still was high.", "You should probably read the article you linked and watch the videos. It's a similar concept but not the same thing. The zorro is carried into the net by one person. The OP is passed over the net and batted in by another person. Thats a pretty big difference.", "Love Jomboy Media!", "Its okay to not like sports and its okay to like sports", "Not high enough, apparently", "Did you just pull off a mid-90s \"NOT!\" fake out? How contemporary.", "This isnt as cute and adorable as i first thought, but still kinda cool", "Columbus giving up on Milano sucked. Kids got talent. But the former coach just didn’t trust his abilities.", "Gordon Bombay would be proud", "its knuckle puck time.", "As a lifelong Ducks fan, seeing the attention Z is getting us, up to a fucking Jomboy Breakdown, makes me sooo happy", "Only a sith deals in absolutes.", "That's Coach Bombay to you!", "I have a question, if you don't mind. \n\nI'm Irish and know nothing about Hockey except for the Mighty Ducks movies and Wayne Gretzky. Is the Ducks logo IRL different to the movie one? I'm not a fan of the one I'm seeing in the clip.", "The team was founded by Disney in 1993, and they also produced the movies and a TV show with the Mighty Ducks IP! They sold the team to the Samuelis in the early 2000’s and the logo was changed to the webbed-foot D you see here, but the OG Mighty Ducks logo is still used in some capacities, like in our shoulder patches on this jersey or as the main logo on our Alternate (third) jerseys.\n\nFans and players alike all agree that we should just go back to the classic Mighty Ducks logo full time though.", "Wow, ok. \n\nIt's amazing what some head honchos in this world seem to think are good ideas. \n\n\"We need a new logo of the Ducks. I dunno, something duck-like like their webbed feet or something.\"\n\n\"Webbed feet it is. Time for lunch?\"", "You mean you CAN'T do that? You must suck at hockey, How embarrassing for you.", "Because it's stupid, that's why.", "Here ya go bud, a video of a 10 year old explaining how to do it:\n\n \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5S8XXuMKRQ", "As a lifelong Ducks fan, seeing the attention Z is getting us, up to a fucking Jomboy Breakdown, makes me sooo happy", "The Mighty Duck man himself", "No, you can see in the video it's too high. But they got the call wrong. It's not shoulder height when it's a goal/shot. It's cross bar. It barely crossed over but I think they liked how cool it was and just said fuck it lol.", "They're also the Anaheim Ducks since 2006 instead of mighty ducks of Anaheim.", "this comment is good. NAWT!", "Pure skill niiiiice🔥💯", "still ain't you.\n\nAlso, It was pretty clear that you're supposed to do the lift, next to the goal, so you don't bang against the goal and mess it up, and put it up where somebody can bat it in.\n\nif you wanted to complete the homework assignment with full credit, I suggest reading the rubric.", "Lmao exactly what it felt like. At least the colors/jerseys/branding/marketing have been LEAGUES better this season. We seem to be becoming less lame and more in tune with the league standard", "9/10 times this is high stick", "Absolutely", "On the first viewing, I thought he bounced it off the back/head of the goalie. So, it leads me to the question, could you do that ?", "The above comment was stolen from [this one](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/ho87a5f/) elsewhere in this comment section.\n\nIt is probably not a coincidence; here is some more evidence against this user:\n\nPlagiarized \| Original\n-------- \| -----------\n[> I remember running into...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/ho8ijzi/) \| [I remember running into t...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/ho76o3m/)\n[> I clicked on this post...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho8iqa7/) \| [I clicked on this post be...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho85ww2/)\n[> Some people carry staph...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho8ipjx/) \| [Some people carry staph o...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho7e51k/)\n[Hey if it doesn't turn he...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/ho8ilrt/) \| [Hey if it doesn't turn he...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/ho8h8qu/)\n[Babusha has a lot of prop...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/ho8il2v/) \| [Babusha has a lot of prop...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/ho7ivdg/)\n\nbeep boop, I'm a bot -\|:] It is this bot's opinion that [/u/NoTaxfg](https://np.reddit.com/u/NoTaxfg/) should be banned for karma manipulation. Don't feel bad, they are probably a bot too.\n\nConfused? Read the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/reply-guy-bot/comments/n9fpva/faq/?plagiarist=NoTaxfg) for info on how I work and why I exist.", "It was a stupid trick goal that you'll see replicated all over the beer leagues this winter. We learned to lift the puck like that without touching pipe, boards, or tuuks back in the 80s when Gretz first scored one from behind the goal. The fact that it was lobbed over and batted in means shit compared to an accurate celly tip of a slapper. You sure are easily impressed, aren't you. Wait. You probably don't even play, do you? You one of those lard-o's who thinks EA sports is the same as actual shifts? Pshaw." ]	52	videos	Ducks pull off a trick shot for insane goal, a breakdown (Jomboy)
https://youtu.be/HFrgSVoJi1U	/r/videos/comments/re9tqy/a_tornado_that_hit_washington_il_to_on_11172013/	[ "That's crazy! Glad yall are ok.", "I heard on NPR that one of the tornadoes traveled over 220 miles during this storm.", "Why post a video from 2013? Looking for that sweet sweet karma because of the tornados from this morning/last night?", "maybe it helps people understand the gravity of what tornadoes actually are instead of just providing the awe inducing footage? who gives a fuck about reddit karma" ]	4	videos	A tornado that hit Washington, IL to on 11-17-2013
https://youtu.be/kaDvqoTtLL4	/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/	[ "DO'H!!", "I really like how short and succinct this video is.", "Why is the \"country\" shown here the fictional lands of Essos?", "The doom of Valyria", "Was expecting references to a Simpson's episode. Was disappointed.", "Aye caramba!", "This is really interesting and good to know. I can’t help but think though that it’s not even a tricky paradox like this with Covid, yet so many people still don’t get vaccinated.", "So, this is the baby boomer/fat people virus?\n\nIt makes sense since all of the countries with younger/skinnier populations aren't as effected.\n\n???", "is this satire? are you really this stupid?", "Is THIS satire? Have you looked at the mortality data? The biggest risk with covid is being either especially old or especially fat.", "Short, sweet, and to the point! It's rare to see that nowadays.", "I'm gonna be an idiot and ask, how is the portion of unvaxxed deaths higher in all separate categories, but percentage of vaxxed deaths higher in the aggregate data? I'm not getting it.\n \nEdit: My brain still hurts a little, but I think I mostly get it. Pretty much, make sure you're considering all factors when analyzing data.", "Sure, but calling it a \"baby boomer/fat people virus\" as /u/brelincovers did is a reckless and insensitive oversimplification. It makes it sound like the lives of the old and overweight can be dismissed, and ignores the deaths and suffering of countless thousands of younger/lower-weight people.", "Age is overwhelmingly the deciding factor in whether or not this virus is dangerous for any given patient, according to the data over the past 2 years. Old people know this and get vaccinated. The vaccines don't work well enough to prevent death so old people are still by far the most at-risk group and they still die at the highest rates.\n\nIf you don't read too far into it, it looks like vaccinated people are dying at a higher rate than unvaccinated people, and that you should be afraid of the vaccine. What's really going on is that the people who are most at risk of death and the people who are getting vaccinated at the highest rates are the same people. The vaccine doesn't work well enough to prevent death, but it's not killing people outright and you shouldn't be afraid of it.\n\nThat's what the video is saying.\n\nBut to your point yes - old people and fat people and a few others with chronic conditions, particularly of the lungs, are the only ones at risk from this. Again, according to the data over the past 2 years. Something like 90% of all COVID deaths were over the age of 50 and to this day the average age of all COVID victims is 78 (life expectancy in the US). Virtually zero victims have been without comorbidities. The best defense against it is simply overall health.", "Since COVID is more dangerous for older folks, there's been a big push to get older people vaccinated. Therefore, on average, vaccinated people are older than unvaccinated people, because most old people are vaccinated. That makes comparing \"all vaccinated people\" to \"all unvaccinated people\" apples-to-oranges. You're really comparing \"being old, but vaccinated\" to \"being young, but unvaccinated\". You're not isolating the effects of the vaccine alone.\n\nThat's why, when you get rid of age as a factor and compare apples-to-apples vaccinated vs unvaccinated, the benefit of the vaccine shows up hugely, as expected.", "I was prepared for a 30 min video after the first sentence. Quite the surprise.", "This is a great explanation, and actually the video would've benefitted from another bar graph showing the large discrepancy in the total numbers of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people in the population.\n\nEdit: I was wrong. This is describing a different phenomenon than Simpson's Paradox.", "I feel the same way about your comment.", "This video found the most complicated and confusing way to explain what happened in this fictional scenario. Basically, many more people were vaccinated than weren't, let's say 75% were vaccinated for example. If the vaccine didn't help, then 75% of the deaths would be of vaccinated people, but since it was less, we can see that the vaccine helped.", "Honestly the video found the worst possible way to explain the paradox.", "Great summary and an excellent example of how the average person can get manipulated by statistics. When a source presents only one type of data it is easy to mislead. Thanks for putting this together.", "Either he is leaving some data out or what he just showed isn’t possible. It’s no surprise there are no actual numbers in this video when trying to prove some point.\nEdit: I got it now", "No that’s not true for this fictional scenario. Half the entire population was vaccinated. It’s just that a lot of the population is kids and teenagers.", "From the description:\n\n> The country and virus mentioned in this example are hypothetical only, however they are based on plausible, internally-consistent data and analysis.", "You missed the entire point of the video.", "I remember running into this in my career during my 20s and having my mind blown.\n\nI don't remember specifics, but I added some positive data to my report and the overall average number went down. Could not figure it out until I read about this and realized my error. \n\nAgain, Simpson's paradox isn't an actual paradox it's just you're missing a factor.", "I've found images like this helpful in explaining: https://i.stack.imgur.com/aCzDa.png\n\nYou can see that within each group, the linear relationship between X and Y is clearly negative. But because group membership itself has a measurable relationship with X and Y, it results in the overall population showing a positive relationship between X and Y. Not because X and Y have a positive relationship in and of themselves, but because they both have a relationship with group membership.", "You’re describing a separate issue, not Simpson’s paradox. Controlling for age doesn’t fix your issue. The issue in your example is confusing probability. The probability of dying is lower with the vaccine in your example. In the video above, without age data you would have no evidence the probability of dying was lower with the vaccine.", "How is it reckless and insensitive? The data doesn’t lie; the overweight, ill and elderly are virtually the only people at risk of death. There’s a 99.995% survival rate for people under 65…", "Another thing to remember too is most elderly are vaccinated and they still have a higher than average chance of dying to covid. Removing them from the unvaxxed pool and adding them to the vaxxed pool skews the stats.", "\"Well, you're just playing with the data to get the result you want!\" -Anti-vaxers probably", "It violates that rule of youtube that the first and last 10% of every video is useless.", "You're describing a completely different issue than what's in this video. The video was showing that you can falsely make it seem like the vaccine is ineffective by \"balancing\" the deaths from vaccinated old people on one side with unvaccinated young people on the other. The old people were always at a higher risk than young people so to isolate the vaccine effectiveness from other underlying factors such as age, you must compare within their age groups.", "Everybody's giving really complex examples, let me try to simplify.\n\nLet's say you've got two randomly-selected people: one of them is taking malaria pills and one is not. Then, the one taking malaria pills dies of malaria. Oh no! It seems like the malaria pills actually made him more likely to die of malaria!\n\nBut wait: doing some more investigation, it turns out that the one who wasn't taking malaria pills didn't actually live in a region where malaria is common, while the one who did (and died) lived in a malaria-infested region. It wasn't the pills after all, it was the difference in their locations that affected whether they died of malaria.\n\nWhen you're doing statistics--even as simple as counting two people--you have to be careful not only that you're being fair in the thing you're measuring, but also in everything you're not measuring. In my example, it was location. In the video, it was age: people who were older were more likely both to get vaccinated and to die anyway, so by looking at the total you get the mistaken impression that being vaccinated is causing deaths, when actually it's age causing both those things. When you account for age by grouping people into similar age groups, you see the true picture that being vaccinated reduces deaths.\n\nYour intuitive notion that the ratios of outcomes should be the same in the aggregate data as in all the sub-groups is only valid when the factor that you're grouping on isn't itself influencing the outcomes.", "The only way It can fit is if it's instigated and that means it's not a paradox.", "It's a terrible explanation, and it has nothing to do with video. In the video, 53% of the population is vaccinated, not 99,99%. It's a completely different issue.", "Because the people who are most vulnerable and likely to die either way are also more likely to get vaccinated. And the people who are less vulnerable are less likely to vaccinate.\n\nThe vulnerable people end up dying at high rates whether or not they're vaccinated. Meanwhile the less vulnerable are protected by factors unrelated to vaccination.\n\nIn the aggregate this creates the appearance that vaccinating is bad. Because you don't see that invisible factor of vulnerability due to age in the aggregate.", "It's insane how many people completely missed the point of the video, yet they are so confident they understand it, they took it upon themselves to explain it to others. I guess it's that easy for misinformation to spread...", "The simpson's paradox is a well known phenomenon that absolutely does happen. He didn't make it up for this video. You not understanding it and having a gut feeling that it doesn't make sense doesn't make it impossible.", "It's absolutely possible for the data to be right and for what the video showed to be possible. I'll try to explain a little more thoroughly than the video did.\n\nAssume a disease kills elderly people 100% of the time, unless they get the vaccine, in which case elderly people only die 10% of the time. Also, assume the disease very rarely kills young people, less than 1% of the time if they are unvaxxed, and 0% of the time if they are vaxxed.\n\nAlso assume that the population is 50% elderly people, and 50% young people. Also, the elderly are 90% vaccinated and young people are 10% vaccinated.\n\nThe above hypothetical disease will end up with a certain number of deaths. It will appear that the rate of death among vaccinated people is very close to the same as the rate of death among unvaccinated people at about 5% regardless of vaccination status (and coincidentally, that conclusion would actually be technically true). If you just stopped right there and didn't look any further, it would appear at first glance like the vaccine doesn't help, because it doesn't appear to reduce the death rate. After all, the vaxxed and unvaxxed have an absolute death rate of around 5%. But of course that conclusion is misleading, simply because the people most likely to get vaccinated are also the people most likely to die from the disease. The vaccine in this hypothetical is miraculously, fantastically effective, even though the absolute death rate is essentially the same between vaxxed and unvaxxed folks.\n\nThe reason this is described as a \"paradox\" is precisely because of your reaction to it (which, by the way, is totally normal). It seems IMPOSSIBLE that all subsets of data can point in one direction, while the overall trend points in a different direction. This is part of the reason why it's so easy to mislead people by using statistics that are technically true.\n\nedit: fixed a typo in a number", "Old people are far more likely to get vaccinated and they're more likely to die. These are independent variables, but it increases the number of vaccinated people who die.", "The 53% figure in the video is referring to the proportion of the deceased who had been vaccinated. The video never states the number/proportion of the population that was vaccinated, nor the fraction of vaccinated (or unvaccinated) individuals who died. The reason the rates of vaccinated versus unvaccinated deaths appear to be similar ultimately boils down to \"a small percentage of a big population is similar to a big percentage of a small population\". The poster I originally replied to did a much better job of conveying this concept than the video. \n\nOr maybe I'm completely missing the point, and what I'm describing has nothing to do with Simpson's Paradox.", "Having problems watching this video? Maybe it's banned in your country. You may need our sponsor, NordVPN.", "This is irreverent and stupid. You can make any statistic look like anything using this method. All you have to do is change where you measure the groups. This is called manipulating statistics. The only number that matters is the whole group when talking about covid.", "Simpsons did it!!", "13 seconds into the video you can see the percentages of vaccinated and vaccinated people, and then it switches to percentage of death in each of those two groups.\n\nIt has nothing to do with \"a small percentage of a big population is similar to a big percentage of a small population\", Simpson's paradox is that statistic breakdown present similar stats, and yet when controlling for a variable (in this case age), the stats won't be similar in any of the groups. I think it's presented very clearly in the video, and at no point do they mention that the majority of the people are vaccinated.", "because that was a portion of those categories, but those categories themselves are different size populations.", "Ah, okay. Thanks for your comment. I'll admit, I was biased by a preconception that the explanation was \"a small percentage of a big population is similar to a big percentage of a small population\" and didn't watch the video as critically as I should have.\n\nWatching it again I see your point and agree that the video explains Simpson's Paradox well - at least, I have a better understanding of it after watching the video again.\n\nBut isn't it true that Simpson's Paradox and the idea that \"a small percentage of a big population is similar to a big percentage of a small population\" are not mutually exclusive in this case? Since the number of deaths is really driven by the 60+ age group, we can neglect the other two age groups, and at that point the reason the rates of vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths appear similar is \"'a small percentage of a big population is similar to a big percentage of a small population\". Simpson's Paradox is more that, in this case, the trend for the overall, grouped data is driven by only a subset of the data, and the interpretation of the data's implications about the efficacy of vaccines changes if you consider the grouped data or its subsets. Is that fair to say?", "Thank you, I think I'm still missing something from the first percentages the video shows. It's saying that, of the people in this scenario who died, over half of them are unvaxxed, correct? Is that what we are looking at, only the population that died?", "Wow!", "It's more like this:\n\nThe first graph was a report I made about the number of people I killed with poisoned candy, more of them were vaccinated than were unvaccinated. \n\nWhat that graph doesn't tell you, but the second & third graph do is that I handed out several orders of magnitude more poisonous candy to the vaccinated than the unvaccinated, and when we account for that, we see that the vaccinated had a much higher survival rate.", "Great explanation.", "In the video's example, every age subset of the data shows an opposite trend as the overall pooled data. This is one distinction from the sample-size effects or single-subset-weighting in your examples.\n\nEdit: \"In\" not I'm\"", "https://youtu.be/ebEkn-BiW5k\n\nMinute physics has a great explanation of the paradox.", "What's a better way to explain it?", "I think this is one key point the video is making.", "You don't seem to have effectively responded to the \"oversimplification\" concern raised.", "Nope, I didn’t respond to it all", "Ah that's right - thanks for pointing that out. That helps to clarify things.", "You cannot make any statistic look like anything using this method, but it is true that statistics can be manipulated. This video seeks to explain a counterintuitive conclusion that can fool even the data-savvy.\n\nIf the only number that mattered is the whole group, then there would be nothing to explain here. Since we know the vaccines have (vastly) better than 0% effectiveness against death, it is surprising that there could be an apparently larger % of deaths in the vaccinated total population.\n\nThe paradox is that drawing conclusions from only the whole group statistic will lead to the wrong conclusion.", "https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/_/ho7ff59", "Now lets explain the YouLube paradox", "And this is why we need to leave the statistical analyses up to the experts and stop listening to \"social media scientists\". Epidemiologists are basically superheroes. Not only do they understand medicine, but they are also mathematicians.\n\nAnd then we have my aunt Karen on Facebook who looks at some random Covid figures from Sweden and concludes that the experts must be all lying because the numbers don't add up.", "Here's an example:\n\nOut of 100 people, 19 people died from COVID: 10 were vaccinated and 9 were unvaccinated.\n\nOut of the 100 people, 10 were unvaccinated and 9 of them died; 90 were vaccinated and 10 of them died.", "Your example is a much better explanation than this video that never talks about proportionality among the population of vaccinated versus unvaccinated", "I’m seeing in the video now a graph that I missed before that Caused the initial reaction. I still had to watch this a handful of times because it’s tough to capture. I think the other confusing part is using a general death rate instead of deaths from Covid… which who knows how accurate of a number you could truly come up with, hence probably the reason of going with overall death rate.", "I believe it's a variation of \"a small percentage of a big population is similar to a big percentage of a small population\" issue, but it's a bit more complex, since you need variations in both the group size, and the choices made in each group. In this case, it's not enough that the subset of age 60> is driving the total death rate, if all age groups were vaccinated at the same rate, the Simpson's Paradox still wouldn't be present. It's the combination of that and the fact that significantly lower percentage of younger population is vaccinated that makes the paradox apparent. \n\nAlthough, I'm not a statistician, so maybe someone with more clear knowledge of the field can help us both out...", "I feel like the problem with the video is that it tried to tackle too much too concisely.\n\nThe scenario in the video is more accurate to reality: the underlying variable is age, which drives both vaccination rate and chance of death.\n\nBut that is a lot more difficult to explain intuitively, especially in such a short time period.\n\nThe example I gave only explains how aggregation can confound hidden variables in general. I argue that that is a better starting point to help people understand how numbers can be presented from different perspectives to highlight different conclusions, at the cost of being further disconnected from the actual scenario, but I understand where the author was coming from.", "Here are some numbers of a similar, albeit smaller, example.\n\nYou have Group A:\n\n * 80 people vaccinated - 20 dead (25% death rate)\n * 20 people unvaccinated - 10 dead (50% death rate)\n\nAnd Group B:\n\n * 20 people vaccinated - 1 dead (5% death rate)\n * 80 people unvaccinated - 8 dead (10% death rate)\n\nTotal:\n\n * 100 people vaccinated - 21 dead (21% death rate)\n * 100 people unvaccinated - 18 dead (18% death rate)\n\nIn both groups, the vaccine decreased the death rate by half, however group A has a significantly higher risk of death as well as a higher vaccination percentage. As a result more vaccinated people died than unvaccinated, despite the vaccine being effective.", "I'm going to answer your question directly. You are asking how the three red bars are all taller than each of the three blue bars, and yet the combined red bar is shorter than the blue bar.\n\nNow if you added up those three red percentages and divided by three, and did the same with the blue percentages, you would get the result that you are expecting. That is, the straight average would make the red bar taller!\n\nBut you can't just add and divide by three. Let's say the leftmost red bar represents 25% of the unvaxxed people, the middle red bar has 60% of the unvax people, and the rightmost red bar has 15% of the unvax people, then the equation for taking the average of the red bars is:\n\n> 0.25\\<leftmost> + 0.60\\<middle> + 0.15\\<rightmost>\n\nWhich is different than:\n\n> 0.33\\<leftmost> + 0.33\\<middle> + 0.33\\<rightmost>\n\nBecause you can't just add each bar and divide by three, it's possible for the three red bars to all be taller and yet the weighted average to be shorter! In the OP video, the high elderly death rate among unvaxxed is offset by the fact that there are very few unvaxxed old people (something like ~5% of the 65+ population). So even if that rightmost red bar is really tall, its impact on the weighted average is small.", "this video is bad and misses the most important piece of information that is relevant for the paradox. At the beginning when you are shown the 50/50 vax’d unvax’d illustration, it should be made clear that there are mostly elderly people in the vaccinated group whereas there are mostly younger people in the unvaccinated group.", "This video attempts to answer The COVID Vaccine paradox. If the vaccine is working why is the vaccine not working?", ">It makes sense since all of the countries with younger/skinnier populations aren't as effected. \n\n\nThis is patently false. And yes, you very clearly did indeed do so.", "Wow, that's a surprisingly simple and effective visualization.", "Here in Gibraltar we hsve 99% of vaccinated people among residents. The ratio is the same. How do you explain this?\n\nEDIT: I see my question being downvoted, means that isn't allowed to make question about Simpson paradox?", "The explanation given is that \"old people are more likely to be vaccinated AND are more likely to die from the disease.\" OK, true, but that doesn't explain why the aggregates would be about the same in number, given that the vaccinated death rate is lower among all groups. I'm not arguing that the vaccine isn't effective - the proper explanation here is that the vaccine is effective at lowering the overall death rate, but the fact that many who die are in the older group and ARE vaccinated means that many who die are indeed vaccinated. If everyone were vaccinated, we would expect every death to be from those who are vaccinated, that doesn't mean it isn't effective.\n\nSimpson's isn't relevant here, because it requires that the groupings show inverse proportions among groups that cancel out in aggregate, which isn't the case in the example given.", "Watching videos like this just depresses me, because... the kind of person who points to the original data isn't trying to gain knowledge or figure things out. They're looking for an excuse to justify their own beliefs, and even if you can get someone like that to agree with this video (good luck), they'll just move on to the next thing to justify their decision not to get vaccinated.", "You definitely can’t dismiss the overwhelming death rate of vaccinated people being either old or over weight…", "What ratio are you referring to?", "If you actually believe this, then I have a bridge to sell you.", "That's not he scenario the video is describing (Simpson's paradox). Your example would show up in the death rate that was also presented. In this case, however, the death rate was similar (even worse for vaccinated), but because of different demographic factors.", "Because it's a completely different scenario. That's looking at absolute numbers, while the video is dealing entirely in rates.", "Wanted to say that this is bullshit, but the guys in the comments explained it. Now I get it.", "The bar colors being inverted between the two graphs is really confusing.", "Even without splitting it up into age groups, the statistic was wrong because it was not normalised to population size: even if half the people who died of the disease were vaccinated, but the percentage of vaccinated people in the whole population is very high, then still the chance of dying of the disease would be far lower for vaccinated people than for unvaccinated ones.", "Because the categories themselves are not equal. Over 60s are highly vaccinated, and much more likely to die of covid. Therefore, since most deaths are over 60s, most deaths are vaccinated. However, within this category, most deaths are unvaccinated.", "The video was about Simpson's paradox. This explanation is also clear, but not the focus of the video.", "\"being old and vaccinated\" and \"being young and unvaccinated\" don't apply here:\nWe are all fully vaccinated against COVID19 from 5 years old, even people who work here from abroad took the jab.\nBut COVID is spreading again, infected and dead people among vaccinated are rising\nWe now are taking third booster and already there are speaking about a fourth booster in spring", "Bad video. No drive to like and subscribe and ring the bell, no 30 second poorly rendered intro, no jumpcuts, no in the middle adbreak for Raid Shadow legends. Not even a call to support him on Patreon. Nor and here it comes that really took me out of it...a subscriber challenge.\n\nMake no mistake, this is a Bad Youtube video by any standards", "I'm confused couldn't this be seen as old people dying from the vax?\n\nIsn't it quite hard to differentiate between blood clot causality?", "> it requires that the groupings show inverse proportions among groups that cancel out in aggregate, which isn't the case in the example given.\n\nBut... it is? 5.4% deaths in vaccinated vs 4.8% deaths in unvaccinated, seems getting vaccinated makes you more likely to die. Grouping by age groups shows the inverse is true. This is Simpson's paradox: grouping shows the opposite trend of the combined trend.", "People have preconceived notions of countries what what they expect the data to be/say\n\nIf you remove the country it's less likely that basis is included when you are viewing it", "\"ratio is the same\" means that nearly as many vaccinated people as unvaccinated people die from covid?", "The real problem with the confusion caused by the data in this example is that the cause of death isn't being considered.\n\nThere were roughly 3.4 million deaths in the US in 2020. The CDC estimates that 345 thousand of those were caused by covid. When vaccination only impacts 10% of your sample, that other 90% is going to make your statistics do things like what is shown here.", "i don't get it either\n\nthe graphic, that shows the percentage of deaths in age groups clearly states, that the mayority is unvaccinated in EVERY group. if you add them together you would get more unvaccinated dead people unlike shown in the video\n\ni.e. it's about 2% unvaccinated (UV) deads in group 0-30 vs. 1% vaccinated (V), 6% UV vs. 3% V in group of 30-60 year olds and 24% UV vs. 9% V in 60+; this adds up to 32% UV vs. 13% V and this covers ALL ages\n\nnot only is the percentage of deaths for unvaccinated people clearly higher, but there is also about 50% of deaths from covid that is unaccounted for\n\n\nedit: copy-pasta", "Look at the chart at 0:49. While about 10m are unvaccinated, it looks like around 6.5m are in the 0-30 bracket which are unlikely to die from the virus. Of the approximate 10m vaccinated, it looks like around 5.5m are in the over 60 category so their risk is still higher. \n\nThat's why it's not a fair comparison. The two groups are not the same. If you took a two sample groups, one vaccinated and one unvaccinated and made sure each group had a representative age sample to the whole population it would show that the survival rate is higher in the vaccinated group", "> I remember running into this in my career during my 20s and having my mind blown.\n> \n> I don't remember specifics, but I added some positive data to my report and the overall average number went down. Could not figure it out until I read about this and realized my error.\n> \n> Again, Simpson's paradox isn't an actual paradox it's just you're missing a factor.", "I don't think it's an example of Simpson's Paradox exactly, but it is related to failure to control confounding variables: right-wing and antivax propagandists' focus on the proportion of COVID deaths that were vaccinated. Just last week I saw a clip from Tucker Carlson's show that emphasized the percentage of vaccinated among the recent COVID deaths in Maryland. As you note, the proportion of vaccinated vs unvaccinated among the dead is irrelevant, or, if not irrelevant, not the most relevant figure and potentially misleading). As more more people become fully vaccinated, the ratio of vaccinated-to-unvaccinated will continue to rise, proving more and more evidence that \"vaccines don't work.\" Of course, the more relevant figure is percentage of the vaccinated that have died, which remains significantly lower than the percentage of unvaccinated who have died.", "WE ARE ALL FULLY VACCINATED, MANY OF US TOOK THE 3d JAB \nSo virus is spreading among US and people go hospital and die too....", "Good video", "Ahh yes the Wadsworth Constant.", "Another thing is asking yourself when this can even appear so you can easily spot misleading statistics like that vaccine mortality chart on twitter. It requires large bracket(s) over nonhomogeneous groups. In that case lumping people aged 10-60 together and comparing mortality between unvaccinated (overrepresented in older ppl) and vaccinated (overrepresented in younger ppl) makes it nonhomogeneous.", "If everyone is vaccinated, then what are you even comparing to?", "Assuming you're not a 2 day old obvious troll account - small islands are all at the top of the per capita case count. When you're population is 30,000 it spreads pretty quick. There have only been 6 deaths on the island since March 2020, when most people had gotten vaccines. The other 94 of their deaths came during the winter spike where they didn't have vaccines. \n\nIf you were actually from Gibraltor, I think you would have already known all of this though ;)", "If by \"ratio is the same\", you mean that it is roughly 50% vaccinated and 50% unvaccinated in the ICU?\n\nYou need to look at the percentage of the whole population.\n\nSay your population is 1000 people and you have a 99% vaxx rate, which means you have 990 people vaccinated and 10 people unvaccinated.\n\nYou have 30 people in the ICU, 20 are vaccinated and 10 are unvaccinated. Hey, there are more vaccinated people in the ICU than unvaccinated, it must mean the vaccine doesnt work.\n\nBut when you compare the numbers to the whole population...\n\nof the 10 unvaccinated in the country, all of them are in the ICU, so 100%.\n\nof the 990 vaccinated in the country 20 are in the ICU. That is 2% of the vaccinated population.\n\nDoes that make sense?\n\nBasically, if your vaccination rate was lower you would be in a far worse state.", "Which country would you use?", "Look at this slide from the video - https://i.imgur.com/lWg4LVm.png\n\n4.9% of unvaccinated people died in the sample\n\nBUT 5.2% of vaccinated people died in the sample\n\nNow think about who got vaccinated most rapidly in most countries: elderly \nthe vaccine protects them greatly - however they are still more likely to die than a younger person who is unvaccinated (which did happen too) \nthe older demographic (who is vaccinated) had a higher death rate than younger demographic who is unvaccinated. \n\nif you somehow took an alternate reality and didn't vaccinate elderly people (or maybe didnt prioritise them) - you wouldnt see this phenomenon \nIts only when you bucket them that you realise that unvaccinated elderly had it much worse off...\n\ntook me a while to work it out\n\nI hope this is Simpsons paradox... I dont know much about it", "This can be further compressed into a single question. How many people who didn't die were vaccinated?", "No, because old vaccinated people die a lot, lot less than old unvaccinated people. \n\nThe safety studies track every little thing that happens to all participants. Pfizer was required to report that one of their study participants got hit by lightning. If the vaccines were causing blood clots, or any other serious side effects, we'd know. That's what happened with the AstraZeneca vaccine - although even then, the side effects were so, so rare that it's still recommended for most people if they can't get any other vaccine.", "A good example was Israel. They had like 90% of their deaths in the most recent wave be vaccinated. Anti vaxxers kept using this fact against me as proof they didn't work. Israel was like 99% vaxxed. With this fact there just isnt the number of unvaxxed to get sick and die. Their percentage of ill and deaths per populace was actually very low. In the end the little deaths they had were overwhelmingly vaxxed because thats really all the people they had available to get sick and die.", "The Grey death Epidemic of Pentos was no joke it almost spread to Westeros.", "To divide it into age groups makes a lot of sense because death rate and age are strongly related. Your comment would be correct if people were divided based on something irrelevant like eye colour because obviously you'll be able to find an arbitrary partition where the stats say what you want them to say. \"correlation != causation\"\n\nDeaths to Covid is complicated because there are a lot of underlying health conditions that increase your chance of dying. If you only look at whole groups you're not accounting for information that's actually vital. Isn't the explanation for his partition very reasonable?", "The vaccine isn't working? If they have a >90% efficacy rate I consider that working just fine.", "What's wrong with it?", "Thanks! That was the name I was looking for. It says 30% which I think is too high now that average lengths of videos are longer, but the idea is spot on.", "Wait, so in that slide, the number of people on each side (color) is different? I thought it was showing percentages out of all who died.", "Irreverent huh, interesting.", "It is hard to see. I think the answer is that in the example, only old people are vaccinated.\n\nThis is why it looks like vaccination has no effect. As everyone in the vaccination group, are also the highest risk group.", "This works if vaccinated old people are more vulnerable to the disease than young unvaccinated. This leads to many vaccinated old people dying from the disease (albeit at a lower rate than unvaccinated old people) which counts against vaccination in the aggregate statistic. However, if you compared people of the same age group, you’d see that the vaccine helps.", "Several people have shown it's mathematically sound just in this thread alone. Also if you actually googled the term \"Simpson's Paradox\" instead of remaining willfully ignorant you might learn something. \n\nI hope you'll try to learn here instead of just get angry. Here I'll help you:\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox\n\nhttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/paradox-simpson/\n\nhttps://www.britannica.com/topic/Simpsons-paradox", "Dishonest people seem to love to switch between weighted and unweighted statistics at a whim...", "I don't see how this makes it a \"paradox\". It's just a case of looking at the wrong data.\\`\\`\\`\\`", "Do’h", "I wrote basically this exact comment too. You are spot on. This video does a reall bad job of presenting the data.", "The data is hypothetical and for all his statements to be true, the vaccine would need to cause you to be significantly MORE likely to have covid in the youngest age grouo (no evidence for this that I'm aware of in real life) AND the toughest age group would have WAY more people in it than the other groups combined.", "I think he touched on this quickly in the beginning N di missed it at first too. His data set assumed 53% vax 47% unvax. Mostly his data set assumed that young people with the vax had way worse covid outcomes than the unvax population. \n\nIts a fictional data set so he can say whatever he wants, but thT has bo reflection on reality.", "Simpsons is fundamentally about two variables being plotted missing a big piece of the picture:a third variable. This guys is jumping around between like 5 or 6 variables and confusing them all.\n\nAdditionally his hypothetical data set does not model covid response well. In particular his data set sows young vax people doing significantly worse than young unvax people. There's no strong evidence at all for this (actually evidence to the opposite), but it's required for him to demonstrate Simpsons. \n\nAlso, he could just plot age as. Third variable on. 3d surface which would be way more clear than his bar chart.", "This question still misses a ton of the most important variables. \n\nBesides that there's no new data to be gleaned from your question anyway. The video discusses people thT did die that were vaccinated. Your question is just the inverse.", "It's lovely, but if someone doesn't tell me what country that is supposed to be in the background, I'm going to lose my mind.", "I really don’t understand how [this](https://i.imgur.com/bJEWBpe.jpg) makes [sense](https://i.imgur.com/85DIywp.jpg). \n\nJust single out the Over 60 statistic by itself. In the first slide, unvaccinated it far higher as a percentage of deaths. Then in the next slide vaccinated makes up a majority of deaths.\n\nEdit: I understand now. What the video is entirely missing is that there’s far less people over 60 that are unvaccinated. Their percentage is high because when an unvaccinated person over 60 catches COVID it far more often results in death, but since their population is low, so is their amount of deaths.", "Contrary to the colloquial pop culture definition of a paradox, where it's a situation that cannot be, in science and mathematics, a paradox is a seemingly contradictory statement that remains true.\n\nThe reason this is a paradox is that at first glance, the relationship between vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths in the total population seems to contradict the relationships when the groups are separated, but by analyzing another variable, one can find how that can be.", "The point of my question was that it brings up that the initial data of unvaccinated deaths vs vaccinated deaths doesn't take into account those who didn't die because they were vaccinated.", "N... no. That's not what the Simpson paradox is.", "The video sucks. The amount of people unvaccinated is really low, so the amount of unvaccinated deaths will also be low. The percentage of deaths statistic is measuring how often a COVID case results in death.\n\nThe reason you get confused is because the very beginning they display a group of little blue men opposite a group of little red men, but both groups are the same size, which a complete distortion of reality.", "The reason this video is confusing is because of [this](https://i.imgur.com/PhN0LGr.jpg) graph, which depicts unvaccinated and vaccinated as being of fairly equal proportion.", "What do you need an explanation on then? I don’t get it.\n\nYou claimed “the ratio is the same”. I asked what ratio you are referring to. You answered with [the ratio between] old+vaccinated vs young+unvaccinated does not apply in Gibraltar. So I really don’t get what you are confused by or even stating.", "This video is incorrect. It is missing a step to normalize the data. Put simply- the red and blue areas that make up each of the age group bars need to add up to some measure of the total for each vaxed vs invaxed group.", "> Pfizer was required to report that one of their study participants got hit by lightning\n\n\"So getting the Pfizer vaccine makes you more likely to be hit by lightning!\"", "Yes, this is what confused me so much!", "D'oh!", "Whatever is west of Westeros", "Perfectly illustrates why data without context can be misleading.", "My mind is thoroughly blown", "Not really since this side-effect occurs relatively shortly after vaccination and most COVID deaths probably aren't immediately after vaccination. And we know from other data that it is a very rare side-effect so there is no reason to believe it would be measurable in COVID-mortality.", "What you’re missing is due to the fact that those percentages are not well defined in the video. The first percentages show that among the deaths, roughly half were vaccinated (which is independent from the rest of the population). The percentages divided by group take into account the rest of the population (per age group).", "Is that the one where you use lube because she isn’t wet enough without it, but then after using lube she starts getting wet and now there’s too much?", "> Let's say the leftmost red bar represents 25% of the unvaxxed people, the middle red bar has 60% of the unvax people, and the rightmost red bar has 15% of the unvax people\n\nTo clarify, you might want to also say that the leftmost blue bar does not necessarily represent 25% of the vaxxed people, nor does the middle blue bar necessarily represent 60% of the vaxxed people, nor does the rightmost blue bar necessarily represent 15% of the vaxxed people. (If they did, your argument about different weighting wouldn't matter, and the only thing that would matter is the total number of vaxxed vs unvaxxed people.)", "Simpsons paradox is fascinating to me", "In the video, they say being old increases the likelihood of death and being vaccinated. Being young thus unvaccinated is implied from his statement. It seems like they hit it on the mark.", "oh I have no sound, just visuals.", "Title: An analysis of vaccination data.\n\nVideo: WHAT'S UP, you guys! It's ya boy, Tucker, comin' atchu don't forget to smash that like button, and then slam the subscribe button, and then write a comment and crush the post comment button, it really helps me out! We out here keepin' it one hundred ay-eff y'all, et cetera.", "This is why context is important - I don't know the numbers\n\nBut it's likely that both the percentage of people who died vaccinated was greater AND the death rate of vaccinated was higher\n\n(That's what the data suggests)\n\nHowever I haven't spent any time looking into it. \n\nThe overall demographic of vaccinated people were older, and hence why it's misleading in looking like the vaccine wasn't helping\n \nBut when you dig into the data, There are huge numbers of younger members who - if they had access to the vaccine - would have GREATLY reduced the statistical death rate of the vaccinated figures. They dont die either way - so instead they bolstered the success rate of the unvaccinated.\n\nIf you dropped the youngest coohort from the data you would have gotten a different result", "But the video doesnt say how many people were vaccinated. If it was 10% result might as well be skewd other directuon. So it not any paradox it just that not full information is given.", "The video says 53% of the population are vaccinated. The issue is that of that 53% most of them are elderly, which have a higher risk of dying than the unvaccinated youth. But a vaccinated elderly person has a reduced risk of dying than an unvaccinated elderly person.\n\nThis is representative of when countries first distributed the vaccine. It was to old people first.", "Ah yes, they do say it at the beggining, I had to rewatch it. Sure, in extreame case: if 99% of >60yo is vaccinated and >60yo make 99% of deaths, then death rate of vaccinated for totlal population will be high no matter what (even if all of unvaccinated 60yo died).\n\nBut then again it's only because we know the age plays a role, if considering we know nothing about the data (and also doesn't they always say correlation does not mean causation?), shouldn't we then show it grouped in other controll factors than age: gender, status, education, income, region, race etc? Otherwise information will be always incomplete.", "Except even comparing the same age group you still have an apples to oranges comparison.\n\nIf you got vaccinated, you are more likely to worry about catching the disease and take other additional measures to prevent getting sick. \n\nAn apples to apples can only be done in an unethical setting where you take random people without their knowledge and inject them. That way you do not influence their behavior.", "The problem is that they key graph that visualizes the demographic angle only pops up for 0,5 seconds at 45 seconds in.", "> But a vaccinated elderly person has a reduced risk of dying than an unvaccinated elderly person.\n\nAnd also still higher than an unvacced youth, leading to the false conclusion of it not helping.", "Imagine if no one was vaxxed. How many people would die?\n\nImagine if all were vaxxed. How many people would die?\n\nNot all people are vaxxed, and the average age of the vaxxed is way higher than those unvaxxed.\n\nThere is not only one group. There are two big groups, that are entirely different.\n\nignoring this cannot give you a better insight into the facts.", "Doh", "It can be done ethically. It's called a randomized control trial, and it's how the vaccines were originally tested. The people in the trial are likely more cautious than the general population - but the control group and the treatment group are the same, so the massive difference between them is down to the vaccine alone.", "no you!", "The above comment was stolen from [this one](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/ho76o3m/) elsewhere in this comment section.\n\nIt is probably not a coincidence; here is some more evidence against this user:\n\nPlagiarized \| Original\n-------- \| -----------\n[> I clicked on this post...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho8iqa7/) \| [I clicked on this post be...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho85ww2/)\n[> Some people carry staph...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho8ipjx/) \| [Some people carry staph o...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho7e51k/)\n[As a lifelong Ducks fan,...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/ho8imst/) \| [As a lifelong Ducks fan,...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/ho87a5f/)\n[Hey if it doesn't turn he...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/ho8ilrt/) \| [Hey if it doesn't turn he...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/ho8h8qu/)\n[Babusha has a lot of prop...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/ho8il2v/) \| [Babusha has a lot of prop...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/ho7ivdg/)\n\nbeep boop, I'm a bot -\|:] It is this bot's opinion that [/u/NoTaxfg](https://np.reddit.com/u/NoTaxfg/) should be banned for karma manipulation. Don't feel bad, they are probably a bot too.\n\nConfused? Read the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/reply-guy-bot/comments/n9fpva/faq/?plagiarist=NoTaxfg) for info on how I work and why I exist.", "That was the interesting thing about the Pfizer RCT, while the vaccinated died less from covid the all cause deaths was not less than the unvaccinated.\n\nBoth groups died at the same rate just from different causes so the vaccine didn't improve life expectancy.", "The implication you're making is highly misleading. This article covers your claim pretty well: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-964291665925", "Not at all. Even the AP article points it out. Both groups died from different causes, the vaccinated group didn't die from covid. However, both groups had similar number of deaths. This has never been in question and is part of the facts. The AP article is the misleading one since it conflates the difference between covid deaths and all cause deaths.\n\nIts really too bad we didn't get multiyear studies out of it because right now all we have is these very small very short studies that have a lot of noise in them.", "Evenwesteros?", "In your example, 90% of the population is vaccinated and only ~50% of the deaths are vaccinated, which shows exactly what we'd expect (vaccination reduces chances of death), and doesn't present any apparent paradox.", "You’re not even quoting the right person, smoothbrain", "that's weird. i only heard of 2 'studies' - one from pfizer and one made in israel. both claim the vaccines help against the new omnicron variant\n\nor have those deaths been at a time when the second jab was many months ago and the booster was missing?", "Westereros", "Thanks!" ]	179	videos	Simpson’s Paradox in Vaccination data
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBm5pAB-WHc	/r/videos/comments/reapy0/south_park_the_catholic_boat/	[ "Forget about the Gelgameks???", "Randy is the best character, reminds me of Hal from Malcolm In The Middle. The hypochondriac is a perfect framing device for episodes.", "South Park is the only low budget looking cartoon that made it", "The cheesy singing by Trey is great. The Caaaaatholic Booooat....", "Which is odd because it is just not funny. Feels like the last time SP was funny was season two or three. Once the show found its \"voice\" (e.g., being Trey and Matt's cool libertarian blog), it lost all of its anarchic charm.", "yes I'm sure people stuck around for the animation", "People stuck around because they're stupid and don't easily recognize propaganda. Fart jokes are usually enough for dummies, droolers, and dipshits. The rest of the show is a desperate entreat to just be cool and let moneyed interests own all of our fates.\n\nShit, Family Guy is still around, and it's not remotely funny or insightful or witty or well-written. Even the voice actors are bored with it, you can hear it. We'll produce literally any old shit in this day and age.", "Which is why I can't stand the Tegridy Farms arc that Randy has been saddled with for the past few seasons. It's so long and drawn out and there never seems to be a payoff and its biggest crime for me is that it takes away from Randy being in any other meaningful storyline.", "I agree, I feel like they should give up on that arc all together, seems like the writers are stuck in a sunk costs fallacy for all the effort they've already put into it." ]	9	videos	South Park - The Catholic Boat
https://youtu.be/rag_tPxv858	/r/videos/comments/rebunl/a_very_happy_dude_supercharges_his_muscle_car_and/	[ "Tuff", "Them Duke boys are at it again", "In Australia the cops would've arrested him immediately.. Damn", "I wish I had 1/100th of the serotonin flowing through that mans body.", "Not registered or warranted. No license. Doing burnouts in a carpark.\n\nArrested, impounded, $5-10k in fines.", "This thing looks like it can go head to head with Max's Interceptor.", "Damm I wish I had a barn find like that.", "No small town cop in America is going to fuck over a guy/gal driving their project car to the automotive part store haha.\n\nEspecially not when it's a supercharged 1968 Dodge.\n\nAlso i'm pretty sure she wasn't called in. She was just driving around and figured she'd see whats up. Have a laugh with the owner and tell em the funs over before some other person makes it a problem. They probably even know each other.", "Seems like he was joking about not having a license. Of all the things you listed that's probably the one that would have gotten him in trouble if he actually didn't have one.", "Or brock sampsons adrienne", "Love it !! Looks great with that supercharger protruding. Honestly how that generation of Charger looks best..", "This guy is well known for his \"Cumstang\" (Mustang with a Cummins diesel swap), he 100% has his license lmao.", "Due to mishearing the first time he said it, I will now call spark-plug wires “sparkle-bars.”", "It was on private property and the building manager said it was cool. It was never documented to be off the property. But yeah in the country that stuff is common and they won’t do much.", "Uncle Jesse: the Early Years.", "I think he forgot to put the gaskets (>_ლ)", "You know, minus the obvious YouTube reactions to whatever is going on, I actually like the parts where they're just figuring shit out.", "Engine knocks, knock goes away. Employee shows up, allows him to do burn outs. Cop shows up after clouding up a city block, not mad at him. Manager shows up, lets him do burnouts. That man should buy a lotto ticket or 2.", "They are talking about in Australia and they are pretty spot on. We have \"anti-hooning\" laws which are pretty extreme. They will always find something to get you on.", "This was wholesome AF.", "This dude has gotta be awesome to hang out with. Heck yeah brother rock on! The will to just do stuff even if its wrong 90% of the time is admirable, it's like coding but in the real world & also having a blast while doing it.", "How the fuck they do that whole video without a Dukes of Hazzard reference?", "And that's a problem how?\n\nHe's making the road unsafe by leaving rubber on it from the burnout. You know how slick that shit is?\n\nHe's also not in control of a non road worthy vehicle.", "that is the most obnoxious thing I've ever seen. I love it.", "What a fun view! Subscribed.", "Nice straw man. But if you needed to get it out then I'm glad I could provide that impetus.", "It's like Cooter and Uncle Jesse had their own boy. And he is perfect.", "The kind that puts an 871 on a stock big block", "His YouTube channel is fun to watch and good on him for having fun. Good ole Kansas ‘Don’t give a shit ingenuity.”", "kids today", "Pretty sure the 68’ is accepted as the best year", "Yea do Rod knocks just sort themselves out sometimes? Isn’t the piston bent?", "Right I’m just saying for the US it doesn’t matter what the cop thinks, there’s no legal ground to stand on. If you have a car on private property, then things like licensing and insurance are irrelevant. Although I am surprised to hear that in Australia you can’t drive a car on private property without the cops pressing charges.", "Whoooaaa that is sick haha 😂🔥💯", "I like 68-70 entirely but I do like the 69 myself with the split grille.", "Nice!", "Must be the Dr pepper!", "> but I do like the 69 myself\n\nMy Man", "That was awesome, one of those things you'd like to own, but financially doesn't make any sense, but man, that shiny", "Perfect in every way!", "> Heck yeah brother rock on! \n\nKnock on*", "The Dukes of Hazzard is a reference to them", "It's the 23 flavors", "Except the thumbnail doesn't make me want to punch him in the dick.", "Winnipeg for less than even that\n1. Item\n2. Item", "I love this. He’s genuinely happy and it makes me actually care about what he’s doing and what I’m watching. He’s super happy. Wish we all could be. Car hobbyists have a lot of fun and it seems like it doesn’t even need to be that expensive of a hobby to be fun. I always wondered if I would ever get the opportunity to learn", "They would do you in for the fact the car is not registered and not insured.\n\nDespite it being private property, if they were to lose control and hurt someone they would be in world of hurt.", "I'm quite concerned about this shop not having a fire extinguisher.", "There are some complicated laws with private property used for commercial purposes but ultimately they would probably go for a different angle. Attempt to prove he drove it there, wait around the corner for him to leave or just public nuisance charges. I think it's not much of a law difference and more of a culture difference.", "That makes sense, sounds like a city cop here.", "So much dirt being pulled into the engine at the end.", "Wes's channel blew up over the past year or so, given he lives in a super small town I imagine most everyone already knows him there.", "Hahahah, golden comment", "This whole video was edited like a 20second preview. Kinda annoying after a while." ]	56	videos	A very happy dude supercharges his muscle car and does burnouts.
https://youtu.be/rBIe-bdsChI?t=584	/r/videos/comments/rec1vh/60_of_icelands_2016_recycled_plastic_was_recently/	[ "I never trusted those swedes to begin with. Now they're hoarding all the plastic.", "Most of all plastic can't be recycled even if it has the \"recycle logo\" on it. The three arrows on plastic packaging is an actual scam that was made to make people still want to buy plastics thinking you can just recycle it and reduce waste. \n \nOnly if the three arrows have a number \"1\" or \"2\" on the middle of it, it can just barely be recycled to something else...if it ever makes it into an actual plastic recycler facility.", "Their fish are delicious, though.", "The recycle-able logo and the icon that defines what type of plastic is used are very similar. It is intentional.\n\n\nThis is the trick to consumers you are trying to describe.", "Is that Swedish or Icelandic they speak? Interesting how they code switch between English and it because they expect their audience to know both.", "It's Icelandic", "Single use plastics must be stopped.", "The best solution I have come up with is to move it into orbit via a space elevator / future laser energy transport system, then give it a shove off into the path of the sun. That should do the trick.", "Most people in Scandinavia speak English fluently and at least another language too (German, french and Spanish the most common) many of us know even more since we travel a lot", "yep, we need to quit trying to make recyclable plastic, and try to develop compostable plastics and revert what we can't create compostable back to glass and other recyclable materials. Of course even plastics that claim to be compostable (lookin at you PLA) aren't actually compostable, because they take hundreds and hundreds of years to break down, even longer if they're a deviation of PLA, so there also probably needs to be better definitions for what is considered compostable. (i'd say if it won't break down into environmentally friendly material in any lived-in climate in the world in a garden compost container with no added chemicals in one year, it's not compostable.)", "Historians with Dutch, Icelandic and American professors found out that The people that stole about 400 people, mostly Icelandic but some Danish and English from Iceland in the 16 century were commanded by the Dutch with Libyan and Moroccan peeps. We thought it was the Turks and it was legal to kill them for 400 years. The Dutch professor said he was sorry for the Dutch people. We thought was a nice gesture. I like to say sorry to the Turks behalf of us.", "> and at least another language too (German, french and Spanish the most common\n\nUsually only what little they've retained from high school. Most people would never be able to hold an actual conversation in those languages.", "Perhaps they are holding onto this plastostash while they wait for cheaper, easier, more efficient recycling methods to be invented. \n\nThis isn’t necessarily a bad thing.", "Is this a futurama joke or do you really think this is feasible?", "The meatballs <3", "Is this some copypasta I am unfamiliar with or did you have a stroke?", "It’s not just that, sorting of plastics is extremely inefficient to the point it’s just not worth it.\n\nThe best way forward (other than reduce, and reuse) is looking like pyrolysis; that is converting these waste plastics back into oil. This oil can be easily blended with diesel, and used in ICE’s.\n\nWhilst not ideal, at least modern ICE’s are fairly low emission, pyrolysis is fairly low cost, and it would reduce the amount of diesel otherwise needed. So there are some obvious positives there.", "nope if you actually watch the video its a story of corruption and fraud, basically a company was hired that claimed to be doing crazy high levels of reclying above industry standard and under cut its competitors on price.\n\nInstead of actually reclying it they just stored them in warehouses or burned it.\n\nThen they sold this warehouse to an immigrant family (who were refugees), the immigrant family wanted to open a car scrap yard and bought the warehouse based on the promise that the plastic would be removed. \n\nBut that was another lie.\n\nNow this family either has to pay a massive fine for the plastic or pay to destroy it so they have started paying for it to be burned.", "This is some Disney level optimism.", "How does an immigrant family have enough money to buy a warehouse??", "There are some poor immigrants and some not poor immigrants.", "Apparently, the Soviets either did this or planned on doing it with nuclear waste. They were going to launch missiles full of nuke waste from planes at extremely high elevations and direct it into the Sun.", "You know an immigrant is just someone who came to live in one country from a different one, right? You can be of any financial standing and be an immigrant. If Jeff bezos moves to Japan he would be an immigrant.", "TIL the emoji for meatballs.", "that is so fanciful it borders on delusional.", "just about all plastic is single use if nobody recycles it for real.", "They have great closed captions on the video", "This is way WAY harder than you think. You need just about as much thrust to launch something into the sun as you would need to LIFT OFF the sun.\n\nI'm talking a rocket of unprecedented size and power, the likes of which we are straight up not capable of building.", "Mandatory [Climate Town](https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g)", "Your prejudice is showing.", "I recently watched a video on this, one used to be able to make a small amount of money exporting the stuff to China, and China recently stopped accepting medium density polyethylene, so anybody with a warehouse of this stuff expected to make a few dollars a bale is stuck now and it would cost money for them to dispose of it.\n\nEdit: here it is: https://youtu.be/KXRtNwUju5g", "What plastics are worth cleaning and putting in the recycling bin and which ones are better off in the garbage?", "just had to share somewhere", "Plastics other than 1 or 2 are often recyclable, it's just that they need to be processed differently and your local recycling collection probably doesn't do that, so they throw them in the trash instead. There are some services that take other types, but you have to sort them and take or ship them yourself, and if I can't even be bothered to sort my glass and metal then there's no way in fuck I'm doing that.", "Interesting \n\n“\n\nNASA’s Parker Solar Probe is the first-ever mission to \"touch\" the Sun. The spacecraft, about the size of a small car, travels directly through the Sun's atmosphere --ultimately to a distance of bout 4 million miles from the surface. Parker Solar Probe launched aboard a Delta IV-Heavy rocket from Cape Canaveral, Aug. 12, 2018 at 3:31 a.m. EDT.”\n\nhttps://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/parker-solar-probe/\n\n“With the planet’s motion essentially canceled out, the spacecraft can surrender to the sun’s gravity and begin to fall toward it. But this is almost impossible with current rocket technology, so spacecraft have to get some help, in the form of slingshot maneuvers off other planets, called gravity assists.”\n\nhttps://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/08/parker-solar-probe-launch-nasa/567197/", "Reminds me of my area where they have recycle bins, yet the same truck picks it up on a different day, and it still goes to the landfill. They aren’t even trying to hide it.", "I don't care if they're recycling it, or storing it. As long as it's not ending up in the ocean. We can figure out how to recycle plastic later. For the time being, storing it responsibly is a lot better than most of us are doing.", "Kinda reminds me of San Francisco bragging about hitting 100% recycling, then finding out Republic Waste was shipping it all to Nevada and burying it in one of their landfills.", "That's sad. \n\nThroughout the First World countries, we all put our Plastics out for recycling every week, and we delude ourselves into thinking they're getting recycled. \n\nWe feel virtuous. \n\nWe read articles like this, a couple times a year, and deep down inside we know they're not getting recycled.\n\n But we ignore the reality, and continue to Pat ourselves on the back.", "When I was working at a aluminum can factory, we had recycling in the breakroom for cans, plastics, and paper. I know for a fact that all of it just went into the trash. Even the aluminum cans", "At least it's not in the ocean?", "Pretty sure the pacific garbage patch is, in part, Chinese companies “recycling” American plastic.", "Why do so many of you travel so often? Is it largely proximity, work, etc.", "I hear they're using swedshop labour", "This is why I can't stand government programs. If it's paid for with public funds, THEY SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO RELEASE THE FULL DETAILS OF THE CONTRACTS.\n\nTransparency is the solution, but so many politicians are corrupt, any transparency would ruin their careers.", "As an Icelander I feel embarrassed despite the fact I haven't lived there since 2013. I love my country and miss it very much but god damn behind all the progressiveness and natural beauty we flaunt to the world there's so much corrupt shit in the background.", "From experience, they can hold an actual conversation in english after a couple of drinks.", "But Coca Cola insists people prefer plastic to glass /s\n\nhttps://www.bbc.com/news/business-51197463", "I had a big plastic storage container with the 2 on it. Wouldn't have been able to close the lid if I put it in the bin, and they won't take it if something nonrecyclable is apparent. By chance, the pickup was driving by on the other side of the street, so I asked the worker and she told me they won't take it, it's for trash pickup. So definitely check local rules, the internet had me wrong on that one. We've got separate dumpsters throughout the city for paper now, too. And I think even after all that, most of it gets sold off to China.", "Glass isn't better either. We're running out of sand.", "I’ve stopped ignoring reality, I stopped recycling altogether. It was really weird at first, because sorting my trash into separate bins is something I literally grew up doing. It’s a hard habit to let go of after decades.", "I'm still recycling, because I think that the aluminum and the glass gets recycled.\n\n I drink a lot out of aluminum cans, and thise are worth Cash Money where I live. I'm hoping somebody is able to \npull those cans out of there... I think they are worth five or ten cents each.\n\nPlastics and paper.... I think those end up going to a landfill somewhere.", "If only the problem could be solved by incredibly simple regulation.", "I understand the argument for being out of sand in regards to concrete, but for clear glass bottles, where is it all going? I guess at some point we'll have to mine garbage dumps before a certain timeframe for materials.", "Most of this stuff isn't single use. Focusing on single use plastics is a diversion preventing us from dealing with the problem.", "They for sure do. I wouldn't want to carry a glass bottle around. Too fragile, too heavy, too expensive. Plastic is amazing. It's just unfortunately horrendous for the environment.", "We are not running out of sand. We are running out of high quality, naturally occurring, freely accessible sand. It’s possible to manufacture sand as a replacement for the mined sand used in concrete but that obviously costs more than just digging it up.", "[Wendover Productions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXRtNwUju5g) \n\n[Last Week Tonight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiu9GSOmt8E) \n\nI thought Johnny Harris did a video on it as well, but I tried one search and gave up.", "The chef.", "papers not bad though. Water alone breaks it down pretty quickly. And then it can biodegrade quickly as well, returning to earth. I remember at one time, some grass seed patch stuff using paper scraps as part of the fertilizer/seed cover.", "Yes, paper is probably one of the better things to put into a landfill. After all it's 90% sawdust and wood pulp. \n\nIt's the Plastics that are the problem. Most of those don't biodegrade, and there are so many of them nowadays.", "I 100% agree. Honestly, if drinks were easily available in glass, I'd buy them more. Hell, not even for the recycling purposes, but they just taste better.", "\"For every one tonne of recycled glass we use in the process, it replaces 1.2 tonnes of the virgin material (sand, soda ash) that is used to make glass.\"\n\nhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-22/can-all-glass-really-be-recycled-war-on-waste/8541048", "It was recycled… into blocks of garbage.", "This", "What do you think those are made out of?\n\nYou need to eat more to work through this backlog of plastic.", "Concrete is the main culprit; glass is a drop in the bucket comparatively. \n\nIt's also recyclable and reusable, coffee-shops often ship the used beer bottles back to the manufacturer because they get a discount. \n\nCoca-cola used to do this and abandoned it in favor of aluminium cans, but they can't be re-used so the price went up quite a bit when that switch was made. Not sure why tbh, I think glass is better for drinks, it keeps the flavor better.", "They said it was recyling. They just didn't say WHEN they would be recycled.", "The industry lobbied for policies that literally prevent policies from being implemented to regulate it. Climate Town channel on YouTube did a pretty good rundown on it, it’s pretty fucked.", "There are a lot of lobbyists who make a lot of money selling liquids who will pay good money to see that continue to not happen.", "Yes and no. Most plastic is made from naphtha, which is normally a product produced from an oil refinery.\n\nPyrolysis oil would require additional refining to create naphtha. Shell has a big project in the Netherlands aiming to do just that, and greenwashing by slapping the ‘bio’ tag onto it.\n\nhttps://www.agro-chemistry.com/articles/chemical-recycling-the-holy-grail-of-the-circular-economy/\n\nThe problem is all this refining and pyrolysis isn’t completely free from emissions, but if those can be managed then a high-quality closed loop plastic recycling industry could be possible.", "Respect to this dude for uncovering this, but why is he insulting?\n\nYou're not good at math.\n\nSounds like a noise my toilet would make.\n\netc", "Recycling only works if it is funded. It will literally never truly be “profitable”. We should bill manufacturers the cost of recycling their plastic products up front under the assumption that 100% of it will be recycled no matter how expensive it is to recycle the given type of plastic. If this makes certain containers stop being economical to produce then they should stop making them.\n\nMove the burden on to the manufacturers and you wont have any additional plastic to worry about. They’ll find something better or only use the plastic with the lowest cost to recycle.", "I think its just friendly banter, these guys do videos together quite often on the rest of the channel and its a combination of a serious subject but with some jokes.", "Plastic recycling is essentially a scam. It's 'recyclable' but isn't actually all that recycled in practice. Here's a pretty good [Climate Town video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g) about it.", "I worked with a guy who found a way to easily recycle poystyrene (styrofoam) but no one wanted to use it because the cost of transporting the foam wasn't worth it even though it was a huge win for the environment.\n\nIt always comes down to the almighty dollar.", "Plastic bottles are actually the highest payout at recycling centers. Its really disappointing to see everyone claiming recycling doesnt work. Why would they pay you for plastic then? It is unfortunate that they dont take certain types of plastic but I just buy only the ones they take now. I tried switching to aluminum cans of water because it is probably healthier for you than plastic, but stores only sell seltzer water and I prefer flat water.", "Glass is very heavy and you need to burn extra fuel to transport product in it to market and even more to take it to some location for reprocessing. I've been to a few rural areas where glass is not recycled at all because of this", "Ohhh gotcha! That makes much more sense", "Keep in mind, Europe is comparable in size to just the United States. Interstate travel is pretty common, especially in the Northeast", "People use this fact as a reason why recycling is pointless, and they don't bother. \n\nIt's \"reduce, reuse, recycle.\" The best way to mitigate plastic waste is to reduce consumption because that lowers demand. Choose paper, metal, or glass over single use plastics with resin indintifiers 3 and up when possible. If plastic must be chosen, try choosing those with resin identifiers 1 and 2. \n\nThe next best way is to reuse what you have or choose plastics that can be used multiple times (food storage containers, refillable water bottles, ect.) Then the third most effective way is to recycle plastics with resin identifiers 1 and 2. \n\nAbove all, we need to realize that putting the responsibility of minimizing plastic waste on consumers is generally ineffective. Single use plastics are cheap to produce, thus lowering the cost of goods that have them. Lower costs make consumers choose those products, which creates demand. Then demand causes a loop where more goods with single use plastics are produced, and now we're in a cycle. \n\nIt's up to major companies to make the biggest impact, not consumers.", "To be fair, if the universe is infinite empty (and nonliving) space what’s the fundamental issue with disposal outside the atmosphere? “Space rights?” Lmao. Mathematically speaking, earth’s mountains of waste are like a trillionth the size of a speck of dust (if not a trillionth the size of an individual atom or quark— infinitely smaller) with regards to the universe.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n Although with today’s technology it would be way too expensive to dispose it as the quantity is literally the size of mountains = hundreds of cargo ships. Lifting that to space, not gonna happen within the next century", "Go home dad, you're drunk", "they might have planned to do that, but actually getting something into the sun is rather hard, and nuclear launches have been feared as a source of potential nuclear contamination for some time.", "It’s just not very efficient for the plastics. My parents were avid recyclers (rural town) but when they found out the company was exposed as sending it all to the landfill they stopped. Sad.", "I think for that to happen, society needs to stop buying into the “convenient” food market. K-cups are the most wasteful thing ever, yet so many people use them.", "The real best way forward is converting waste plastics into ice for Margheritas.", "Yes. Plastics are too important and functionally unique (in most cases) to replace entirely, but we do need to find a way to use them that is more sustainable. This should include massive investment in recycling infrastructure, and investment into more biodegradable forms of plastic. I mean we all focus on the shit like straws and bags while typing on a plastic keyboard, using a plastic mouse, on a plastic desk mat, with a computer that is made with a ton of plastic, cars and appliances that have a ton of plastic, etc. We don't see those floating in the rivers because most of the visual waste is from rivers in poor communities without good trash collection systems.", "Yeah, I honestly can't remember all the details or even what my source was. I was taught this in high school as a junior as part of a Russia/ China social studies class. That was almost 30 years ago so the details are a little hazy but I do remember learning about it.", "He is talking about the others though. There is a third mandatory language to learn in school, but no one remembers it after school.", "My mom regularity drives to other countries to attend whatever hobbies she’s into.", "Recycling is a lie. \n\nhttps://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5735618", "Yes, won’t someone think of the pizzas!", "Honestly, storing it in a warehouse or buried somewhere is way better than sending it to China and having it burnt or get dumped into the ocean.\n\nNot that we have much control over what happens to the recycling...\n\nBut at least if it's inert, sitting somewhere, it's not adding to the air or water waste stream that's choking everything, or creating microplastics pollution everywhere.\n\nAdditionally, in theory, it could at a future date be processed and recycled appropriately - by future AI bots that can economically and efficiently sort through complex plastic waste materials.", "Now now, you gave us two links and one of them was a John Oliver one. And that's as much as anyone can be expected to do.\n\nYou done good, Docteh.", "The Green New Deal", "Rhett and Link have assured me canned beverages are the best", "Bottles aren't even the worst offender. Everything in every store is packaged in it with few exceptions.", "In Sweden 49 % of the plastics that are collected are recycled. Not great but not terrible either. The remaining 51 % is burned for \"energy recycling\" (the use of the word \"recycling\" here is debated), to heat homes using a closed circuit hot water pipe system.", "So... will be 'eventually' recycled?", "Lots of plastic can be recycled, it's just not necessarily cost effective to do so, depending on the plastic. We used to do more, when the government was subsidizing it.", "Yeah, the recycling of plastic was a huge light pushed by the oil companies. You can recycle some plastics but it costs more to do that than to just bury it. Many places in the U.S. just burn it which puts out a lot of carbon into the atmosphere. Not to mention releasing all kinds of pollutants.", "Drinks in glass cause a larger climate impact, because of their transportation cost. If we switched and drank the same amount, we would put out more CO2.", "> Throwing them into interstellar space, never to return to the solar system is like 4x as hard.\n\nIt takes 50% less delta-v to reach interstellar escape velocity than it does to fly into the sun. It going to require a long trip.\n\n[Delta-v of Solar System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budget#:~:text=The%20New%20Horizons,into%20the%20sun.)", "_I'm drunk at home_", "_hördeför_", "Personally I prefer cans to both, and aluminum is one of the best materials for recycling.", "_remember to put this bottle in the recycling bin after you drink it, or you're the bad guy_\n\nC O C A \nC O L A \nL I F E", "+1", "The important thing about \"compostable\" plastics isn't the slow decomposition of bulky objects, but the fact that they're bioactive at all.\n\nIf you end up with a tiny piece of PLA in your lungs, your body can likely hydrolyze it. PTFE not so much, and if it can't be expelled you'll have it forever.\n\nIf organisms can digest it at all then it does away with the main microplastic concern of accumulation. After all we don't worry about wood chips contaminating the environment, even though they can take decades to break down as well.", "the big issue i think is the centralization of our drinks and various products that platic is used in. so those shipping costs are like that, and all of our smaller producers local companies got run out of business. \n\nthis isnt a perfect solution of course but this is obviously not working.", "Has everyone forgotten about TDP?", "One of the best comments in the thread. Just keep this shit out of the ocean.", "And that reminds of me of the Simpsons episode where Homer becomes sanitation commissioner and does a similar thing", "But it's not Just being stored. The Swedish authorities demand it's gotten rid of, so it's getting burned. In the ocean or in the air, take your pick.", "There was a switch like 20 years ago where some ads in Sweden started being in English without subs but pretty much everything in actual programs is still subbed today.", "I doubt the paper is sent overseas, that's why they separate it. I know Canada recycles a lot of its paper and cardboard locally, it actually has significant value compared to plastic. I'd assume the US is similar, and just about every cardboard box I've seen here is marked something like 60-80% recycled, made in Canada.", "And that's just the weak, cheap, tasteless plastics. We save the good \nquality plastics for [Juleskum](https://www.cloetta.se/varumarken-och-produkter/juleskum/).", "The use their bootstraps and start businesses. Watch the video and all your stupid questions will be answered.", "Can't somebody else do it?", "I'll take a relatively dirty process that turns all that plastic back into something useful over just tossing it into a landfill, and if they can turn a profit doing it more power to them.", "They ARE burning it. It tells you so right there in the video.", "That and the fact that the mass transportation required to do it would more than offset any good recycling the product would achieve.", "Wendover is a solid channel which deserves to be recognized as quality here too. Both videos are great.", "> I'm hoping somebody is able to \npull those cans out of there\n\nWhat, you don't save them in a cardboard box in the shed? Man every single person I know in Canada has a box or bag of cans to take back, even multi-millionaires. Nobody just throws them in the recycling bin, it's unheard of! Those things are worth money!", "A researcher at MIT claims if you want to save the planet, throw recycling in the landfill. The landfill is set up to deal with waste management to the highest level of precaution possible. \n\nIslands of plastics in the ocean are made from mistreatment of waste from recycling plants. Only like 7% (arbitrary number I don’t remember the exact percentage) of plastics that make it to a recycling plant get recycled\n\nLink: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/mit-research-andrew-mcafee-says-recycling-is-useless-2019-10%3famp", "That's just scarcity. If I have a thousand dollars it makes more sense to recycle 10 tons of plastic A than 5 tons of plastic B.", "Well that sucks ass :P\n\nWhich part of the video btw. It's a pretty long vid.", "Perception is everything. They're more concerned the public relations happening in the moment than the over all issue. They lied to millions of people to keep up a facade", "Or, we could regulate this shit instead of pushing the responsibility off onto the uneducated easily manipulable unknowing consumer. Just saying. I cant reduce because 99% of everything contains plastic, nothing is actually reusable if I'm buying prepackaged, and recycling is apparently mostly a sham.\n\nEveryone needs to stop blaming the consumer and start blaming the producer. It should 100% be the responsibility of every company that produces plastic to recycle an equal amount through some means, or pay a fee of the difference of what they're able to do that goes back into recycling their fucking garbage. This rock is fucked in 50 years otherwise.", "That's the amount collected for recycling. The amount then actually recycled vs just tossed in landfill or sent overseas to be tossed in someone else's landfill is a completely different ball game.", "Recycling and reusing are not the same thing.", "At this point, people are too reliant on a certain way of living to change things so drastically as to completely overhaul the use of plastics. If plastic suddenly stopped being used as much, there would be a massive dent put into production resources. Plastic is so cheap to make, use and buy that suddenly reducing its production would result in price increases of everything, because plastic is used in virtually everything, and mass production with other materials is more costly, as well as product shortages because higher grade materials are in shorter supply. The only real answer at this point is in discovering an effective way of breaking down plastic. There are just too many humans in the world to not have something as dependable as plastic.\n\nOr alternatives to plastic, which are unlikely to either be as stable, resilient, light, abundant, or cheap as plastic. It's possible, but I fear plastic is probably as good as it's going to get in regards to materials.", "It doesn't matter which government we're talking about, if you're trying to rely on them to do something because the public thinks it's a moral good, even though it's unprofitable, you're going to have a bad time. If you want something moral but unprofitable done for your community, and done reliably, you'll have to form a group of like minded people to do the work yourself. You can't outsource to government without tempting corruption.", "It can theoretically be burned cleanly to produce energy, occasionally even practically! It also produces greenhouses games, but it's that or the ocean inevitably, right?\n\nOr we could bury it, and let the next iteration of dino-sapiens discover fossil fuels?", "Good：）", "Why would you stop if it's a hard habit to let go and also results in even less stuff getting recycled?", "Of that 49% the amount actually recycled is ~~10-15%~~ a small number. The initial number is just the amount collected.\n\n> the demand for recycled plastics is growing rapidly, though in 2018 it accounted for only 6% of plastics demand in Europe.\n\nhttps://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20181212STO21610/plastic-waste-and-recycling-in-the-eu-facts-and-figures", "Landfills have been outlawed for decades I Sweden and ~~we don't send plastics overseas~~ edit: apparently we do. We actually import ~~1~~ 3 million+ metric tonnes of trash every year. \n\nAbout half of plastic packaging that is sold in Sweden is collected, and about half of that is actually recycled. In total we end up w ith 20-30 % of plastic packaging recycled. Since many numbers are based on estimates there is some variation depending on who made the calculation, but most seem to end up in that range.", "They agree with you. They also said that it's on corporations not consumers.", "That's how it is done over here.", "Isn't that most of the \"recycled\" plastic worldwide?", "Plastic just needs to die. All containers should just be made of aluminum, it's endlessly recyclable. Let me buy my 2 Liter coke in a massive aluminum can.", "The reporter, when speaking to camera, is speaking Icelandic. The interviewee speaks Swedish, but the common language they use to speak to each other is (obviously) english.", "I get the impression very few people watched the video", "Yup, news stories like this have been circulating for years, and it's been proven to be widespread AFAIK.", "[Relevant video ](https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g)", "I know I was reiterating.", "Climate Town made a great (and absolutely hilarious) video on this. Highly recommend their channel\n\n[Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g)", "Very cool", "This. Everything should come in aluminum cans. Tub of salsa? Aluminum can. Deli Sandwich? Aluminum can. Bottled water should be canned water.", "You can't use the numbers for EU to draw conclusions about Sweden since many countries have basically zero actual recycling which reduces the averages. If you look at Sweden specifically about half of collected* plastics is recycled, which is what I wrote in the post above.", "Actually, it's the opposite. Sweden has invested in a bunch of garbage burning energy plants that burn the trash for energy. It produces less greenhouse gases than the trash would produce just sitting there, then the energy is used to heat, instead of using oil or coal.", "This is messed up.", "> Climate Town\n\n[Video you are referencing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g)", "The program was government funded, the problem was they hired a company that was corrupt and then the government agency chose to look the other way. For example all press requests now go to a man that’s been in charge of the program for three weeks and the previous person in charge left the post early (the position is held for a set number of years and no one has left it early before)", "I was briefly hooked onto Johnny Harris. Then one day while fast forwarding, I realized how much fluff he inserts into his videos. Since the videos are slickly produced, its difficult to tell the actual content apart from the fluff. Now I cannot unsee the fluff in his videos and have stopped watching him. Wendover, RealLifeLore, CNBC/Vox/Bloomberg are generally good. John Oliver is very formulaic. Say a couple of very serious, deep lines. Follow up with a silly impression. Rinse, repeat. Very rarely do you find a serious 4-5 minute stretch. Sure - the argument would be its supposed to be in a late night comedy slot. In any case, turns me off. \n\nBut fluff is a general problem with many content creators, which is understandable since they need to churn out catchy and engaging videos every week to satisfy the mighty monetizing Algorithm. CinemaSins went from summarizing a movie's sins in 5 minutes to 10 minutes and now >20 minutes. Its now reduced to comments like \"Who drinks orange juice after dinner?\" +1 sin.", "Second this must watch.", "Greta's gonna start crying", "It was the Wendover one. I also added a link to my comment.", "Problem is that some landfills actually are the source of that plastic that ends up in the ocean.", "As it is everywhere unfortunately. No place is safe from shitty people/practices.", "I agree and think that it's funny that where I live there's a deposit and environmental fee on all drink containers and the fees on aluminum are far higher than they are on plastic. A little backwards, yeah?", "That's exactly what the plastics companies won't allow to happen. They spent millions over the years to keep the burden on the consumer. Thanks capitalism and Citizens United!", "That is true. I was more interested in getting a gauge on what \"a lot\" means. Interstate travel is common, yes, but varies widely based on area, occupation, etc.\n\nThat is a good point that I will sometimes forget though - going to another country can be equivalent to hopping in my vehicle and driving 3 hours over to a neighboring state.", "We should do that and go back to glass bottles/containers for everything.\n\nEdit: and stop packaging stuff in plastic. Go back to cardboard/ paper boxes", "As long as it's not being stored and not shipped its cool", "That's monstrous.\n\nWe all know the flavor quality goes glass>bottle>can.", "Aluminum is a magical thing.", "Multiple investigations have found that Sweden is actually dumping and shipping out their different types of recycling overseas (to Asia and Africa specifically). \n\nThe Swedish government simply withdrew it's police, enforcement and auditing funding from authorities, so that shipping containers and freight heading out of the country aren't being checked for recycling materials being exported any more. \n\nIt's the old \"we can claim it's not happening because technically no one is checking if it's happening\" routine. \n\nhttps://swedwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/swedwatch_make_it_fair_-_out_of_control.pdf - Just one of the examples", "> back to glass and other recyclable materials\n\nI've read even glass isn't usually worth recycling because it's so heavy and is basically just formed rocks.", "What the hell does \"100% recycling\" mean? Where do people put their diapers?", "Oh. That's kinda clever. But... how exactly does trash sitting there produce more green house gases then aerosolizing its entire mass?", "Climate town has the most entertaining fluff\nhttps://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g", "On some other kid.", "\"The burning of plastics releases toxic gases like dioxins, furans, mercury and polychlorinated biphenyls (better known as PCBs) into the atmosphere, and poses a threat to vegetation, and human and animal health.\"", "^(Surströmming ...mmmmm!)", "Got a source? Would love to read/watch about this.", "Cinemasins had been unwatchable for years.", "Trash sitting there produces methane which is much worse than carbon dioxide for the green house effect.", "I need my sandwich canned lol", "Right out of high school I worked for my county’s public works departments doing road construction and surveying. The shop I was based out of was across the road from one our county’s transfer stations (read: dump). They also offered recycling at the time for scrap steel, tin cans, cardboard, aluminum cans, newspaper and glass bottles. Come to find out the public works department and transfer staton had been digging giant pits behind the property for years and dumping/crushing up all the glass then covering it up with a layer of dirt.", "That report is from 2009 but if it has not improved since then it's terrible! I made an edit to my previous post.", "Correct. It's all in the past. They stopped accepting it and dumping for the most part I believe. Now we just dump it into landfills.", "So, all of Iceland’s recycled plastic can fit in less than two warehouses? Crazy.", "Yes but plastics stick around forever.", "Glass recycling usually reuses the container rather than breaks it down.", "It's a bit disingenuous to provide a link about electronic waste in a conversation primarily focused on plastic.", "In the washing machine.", "I don't feel virtuous, but I'm required to do it anyway or they won't pick up my garbage.", "It's not just Iceland it's most of rich countries dumping it to poorer ones and calling it \"recycled\".\n\nHere's an investigation from the biggest independent media in Poland 2019\n[Poland: Europe's garbage dump (UWAGA! TVN)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfzHQaKbHE)\n\nIt's mostly about Germans and German companies dumping illegaly their trash in Poland and then counting it as recycled back home.\n\nSame thing is happening in other countries in Europe.", "Pour the can into a cup.", "problem caused by government -> we'll get the government to fix it!", "Sorry I'm late everyone. \"Somebody\" tampered with my brakes!", "Glass is infinitely recyclable.", "since plastic doesn't decompose, why not burn it all? it's just carbon", "How exactly?", "100% of what they considered recyclable. They took everything to sorting facilities in the City and separated what was and wasn’t recyclable. San Francisco paid them to separate everything, but it was cheaper to truck it to Nevada and bury it than to ship it to the actual facilities that did the recycling. they got busted", "I mean, that's still thousand times better than finding it floating in Pacific ocean.", "There’s also that pesky “this method causes emissions”, meaning it pollutes more than it helps. Gotta get the tech up.", "Oh you mean no air travel in like 10 years?!?", "Well then you should have gotten here earlier.", "Ha, capitalism, you funny.", "[You can get special compostable diapers for your little demon](http://tinytots.com/)", "Admittedly, the kind of landfill that most of Nevada uses is the safest disposal you can get. It’s not recycling but it at least isn’t going to end up in the ocean or poison any waterways.", "Feedstock is feedstock...", "Climate town is amazing", "Do you get paid for your plastic in a place where you pay a deposit when you purchase it? Because they aren't really paying you for it, they are just returning your deposit. They do this to prevent litter, not because it's profitable.", "There wouldn't be a problem with this method, so long as you could guarantee the plastic would never escape into the environment.\n\nThere are 6.3 billion tonnes of waste plastic on earth, you'd need 630x storage facilities to contain it, each one being 1km^2 and 10 metres high. \n\nYou could dig enclosed tunnels and put it under large factories for example. Or in the area underneath large solar panel installations - that would probably be the best idea ever if plastic didn't deform and melt in the sun. Also I am picturing a tornado launching millions of flying 1 m plastic cubes into the air, that would be pretty cool.\n\nUnfortunately launching it into space is not an option at this point.", "This whole comment is why we deserve extinction as a species.", "Oh ok. I guess not all of it off-gases methane, but enough of it does where it makes more sense to just burn it all.\n\nBut does plastics off-gas methane? Wouldn't think so based on the inherent non-biodegradability of the stuff... which means burning recycled plastics itself seems like a net carbon negative.", "100% this has been happening all over the world. Australia was selling ours to China and other Asian nations until they suddenly said ‘No more!’ A few years ago. \n\nA big exposè was done to find it when some people put GPS trackers hidden in trash and recycled items to see where they end up. It was mind blowing. \n\nI think the global average is that 85% of all recycled materials end up in land fill anyway. So why bother separating your trash and going to all this effort, ey?\n\nYour governments are lying to you. Surprise.", "The report states it's all forms of recycling being sent overseas, not just electronic waste. Plastics also make up over a quarter of the waste in all electronic waste.", "Ya, why can’t they just dump it in the ocean like the rest of us!\nIs the ocean too good for them?", "Try the sponsorblock extension.", "That’s not really the point. Half the cleaning products on supermarket shelves don’t need to be throwaway plastic dispensers. You could save a shit ton of plastics and energy by just selling refills. But the companies selling them aren’t incentivised to do so. There’s literally no effort put in to it by these billion $ organisations who could easily sink tens of millions in to research and not be effected.\n\nI worked at Unilever for a year, they harped on about containers that broke down naturally in salt water (because 10s of millions of tons of it end up in the sea every year). When I asked when it was launching someone laughed and said “every year for the last 5, its a PR stunt”. In the last 5 years I’ve seen companies like Apple and Nike genuinely reduce packaging and respond at least somewhat to frivolous environmental waste and use greener sources. Unilever’s done close to fuck all other than green wash their PR.\n\nThere are definitely bad actors out there that need holding to account.", "Escape into the environment? It's buried in the environment. \"escape\" is just moving from that part of the environment to another.", "No you don’t understand it’s outside the environment", "I don't know if plastic gives off methane, it's just \"trash\" in general.", "Well at least in Germany our household trash is recycled to 100%. But only because it also counts as recycled if the stuff gets burned in an incinerating plant. To be fair, they make use of the energy to produce electricity and district heating, it's not just burned to get rid off. It's called thermal recycling.", "I don't disagree with your statements, there are definitely companies that do sketchy bullshit without regards to the environment. But what do you think refills would come in? Because in my experience with refillable bottles, the refills always just come in more plastic.", "... to another environment?", "Can you elaborate? How does stuff buried in a land fill suddenly end up in the ocean?", "Well it IS 30 minutes long", "What are these \"greenhouse games\" you speak of? I'm always up for hide and seek!", "Like I said, launching it into space is not an option. Each starship can carry 100 tonnes so you'd need 63 billion starship launches.", "So is it pointless for my American family and I to sort the plastic from the garbage? Is it all going into a landfill anyways? Because I'll stop doing that immediately if its pointless", "> Landfills have been outlawed for decades I Sweden\n\nThey're not landfilling it in Sweden. Pay to ship it overseas then it's someone else's problem and your conscience is clear.", "I really hope this is sarcasm.", "Or if it could be retrieved later!", "Okay. Let me know when you do it.", "Yeah, it'd be anything that can decompose organically and have the right sort of molecular structure to form CH4 (methane) when reacting with itself (decomposing) or other materials in the tip off gassing.\n\ni.e. not plastic.", "Wtf? Why not burn it and release all those toxic chemicals into the atmosphere, rather than bury it underground forever? Hmm.", "PCBs", "I thought plastic didn't have any toxic chemicals, it's just carbon + hydrogen", "Aluminum is recyclable (infinitely, I think).", "Swede here: speaking in broad strokes, one of the reasons is probably no matter what we work with we can afford travel if we want to and have atleast 5 weeks of vacation plus national holiday days.", "And people say individual action can change shit when stuff like this happens", "At least it's not in the ocean.", "Plastic recycling is a lie designed to ease the customers conscience while the problem itself is only barely adressed. Only a fraction of plastic waste actually gets recycled, the rest is still ends up in landfills or in incinerators.", "Most countries “recycled” shit is just shipped somewhere…use to be China but SE Asia is the new place for unethical business practices", "Wouldn't that be Swedens shame?", "Half true. Plastic with 1 on it, PET, can easily be recycled and reused multiple times. Other plastics however are more difficult. Plastic industry needs to simplify to a few components if you ask me as someone in the industry.", "Not that CO2 in itself isn't bad enough already, but there are all kinds of other toxins. It depends on the type of plastic.", "Well this is a story of corruption, fraud and the government trying to cover it up.\n\nBasically the Icelandic government hired a company that was promising really high recycling rates but also undercut the competitors. \n\nThey made up all of their data which they gave back to the government and instead of actually recycling it they just stores it in a warehouse for 5 years.\n\nSo I wouldn’t use this as a justification to stop recycling. You need to do your own research into what’s happening in your area", "\"Bio\" fucking Shell.", "What about the plants that burn them for electricity? The waste to power plants say they filter the emissions as not to add to pollution but obviously they do produce CO2.", "With good filters, waste to energy might be the best option.", "My god is this guy slow to get to the point.", "some old dude I know said the glass they put the bottles in back in the day was not fragile at all. That you could drop a bottle from like waist height and it would bounce, but he might have been full of shit", "And another problem with recycling is that most of the time, recycling is downcycling - meaning each time you recycle a material, what you get out of it is less valuable or usable than before. So after a few rotations through the recycling process it will still end up as unrecyclable waste.", "We had a similar story in the UK a while back that didn’t gain much traction. It was reported that piles of our recycling were being burned in (I think) India (edit: actually Turkey). So essentially the government was just paying poorer countries to deal with it and passing the figures off as part of their recycling targets. \n\nI imagine a lot of countries are doing things like this and it’s quite disheartening.", "At the very least it's already in one place.", "I'm in the north where I'm constantly freezing and I won't see the sun for a solid month, so last three winters Ive said fuck it and gone on vacation to live in Kenya for a month or two.", "While I think there is some altruism to Apple’s intensions, I think they are more linked to increasing shipping volume than anything else. Apple ships most of its major products by air. By reducing the size of the box and not selling it with a charger, Apple can probably ship three iPhones in the same space it used to ship one. This has the added benefit of reducing both waste and carbon emissions by added air travel, but it’s mostly about saving money.", "The three arrow logo to indicate the type is not on EU packaging. \n\nAt least not that I am aware of", "There’s a few other places like vietnam etc where europe’s plastics ended up. At least until pre-covid.", "Sweden gets paid to take trash from other countries to incinerate it for heating. We import 3M tonnes (not 1M as I previously wrote) of trash per year, about 10 times more than we export.\n\nSource (in Swedish unfortunately, but the tables should be readable): https://www.naturvardsverket.se/data-och-statistik/avfall/avfall-import-export/", "False \n\nActually, all plastic can be recycled. In north America, only olastics marked 1 and 2 are recycled, because they are the most profitable/easiest tyoes of plastics to recycle. Ither countries also recycle \"3\" and many european countries now recycle thin packaging plastics as well.\n\nHeck, styrofoam is recyclable, too, but since its cheaper to make new styrofoam than recycle it, nobody does so.", "I'm just wondering if you realized that they did agree with you, and stated that the fault should solely lie with corporations instead of consumers?", "Yeah, people think they're doing the right thing recycling, but the game is rigged to fail. Really tragic how our society is set up right now. The bottom is falling out and lots of people haven't realized yet, or they feel powerless to stop it.", "Apparently these are filtered out. Except CO2 and NOx\n\nhttps://cen.acs.org/environment/sustainability/Should-plastics-source-energy/96/i38", "Iceland is in the north Atlantic and its capital city is Reykjavik. r/craigferguson", "As long as the front doesn’t fall off we’re fine.", "Well all their recycling fits into a warehouse so there's that", "Damn I love me some Climate Town", "I know it sound crazy but hear me out.\n\nShoot it into space.\n\nNo no. Wait. Use that new sling launcher thing being built. Use centrifugal force to launch a canister into space. Much cheaper than a rocket. With only a small booster for added velocity you could shoot loads weighing in the hundreds of kilos into space all day.\n\nJust a nutty idea.\n\nAt this point with all this crap accumulating anyways it may not be that based an idea.", "Glass can be endlessly recycled too.", "Recycling for the most part is a scam", "It's all the rage.", "Where does it state that? I skimmed but couldn't find. Of course electronics contain some plastics, its just not what the other person was talking about.", "Fan va gött på en slafsig potatisknäckebösmörgås", "No, it isn’t simply buried in the environment. Modern landfills (80s+) have multiple liners that do not leak or leech. This is a perfect solution for plastics. The problem is making sure the plastic gets to the landfill.\n\nI recycle including my plastics in the hopes that some of it gets recycled. If it ends up in the landfill that is okay.", "Those cant be re-sealed. So you cant just take a sip and put it back into your bag.", "Our local city released news that they were going to discontinue recycling pickup because for years they'd yet to implement a recycling plant and \"for the meantime\" had been dumping it into landfills. I was crushed to learn my very anal attempts at perfect recycling including cleaning containers, removing lids, noting plastic identification numbers etc was for not. Now my recycling container is \"things that won't stink\" and things that will go in the garbage knowing they end up in the same place. It's a damn shame that recycling won't happen because it isn't profitable. It turns out in my city the current recycling pickup costs every citizen $0.60 a year. And they're cutting it to save costs...I'd gladly pay way more to properly recycle and make up for the fact that it isn't a profitable endeavor", "Look, I don't think that the first half of his comment is useful in the slightest. We've had decades and dozens of recycling campaigns to try to solidify in people's minds that this all needs to be done, while at the same time letting things like 100% reusable glass bottles be pushed out by plastic because of corporate lobbyists and greed, and shipping our recyclables overseas only to end up in dumps and the oceans, until even they wouldn't even take it any more because so much of what we've been sold as \"recyclable\" literally isn't. Literally, \"according to National Geographic, an astonishing 91 percent of plastic doesn't actually get recycled. This means that only around 9 percent is being recycled.\" NINE fucking percent. That 9 percent also has HUGE infrastructure and shipping and fossil fuel costs, which just about negates it.\n\nThe 3R thing was never a government plan to begin with, it was just a logo created by 70's environmentalists to try to encourage people to be better. Its not really applicable anymore, as plastic is so much more prevalent, in so many more types, that reduction and reuse are near impossible, and recycling is almost pointless. It hasn't worked, and him reiterating it suggests that we're partially to blame as consumers because we didn't \"follow the guide.\" The only real way to fix this problem is to 100% stop using all plastics in cases where something else can be used, and to penalize companies for using ones that cant be 100% recycled.", "As a Swede, Icelandic is beautiful, and I love their name for Sweden - \"Svíþjóð\" looks like l337 speak.", "Ya we found out after many years that our recycling bins were ending up in the same place as the trash and they were cutting recycling pickup because it was too expensive and not turning a profit and they'd never been able to actually get it recycled. It currently costs $0.60 per year per person just for pickup and to them, that's too expensive. I'd love to pay more just to actually have real recycling", "I'm gonna give you a brief little check up on that one not to be pretentious but in 2017 to 2018 that was a really big problem after 2019 it's not as profitable for recycling but you still make some profit off of large recycling I know the video you're talking about and it was valid and it still is and stuff like that can still happen but at the current moment in time it is profitable to recycle", "Hmm thats intresting, I must be getting my deposit back. Thanks for the info.", "It never will be. Think about hospitals for example. Lots and LOTS of single use plastics. Syringes, masks, bags, etc. \n\nNo one ever touches on hospitals in these debates because then you're meddling with the sick and weak.", "aluminum soda cans have a plastic liner inside. Better than a full bottle though I suppose.", "How do you refill something without putting the refill in a container?", "Well there's no environment out there! It's just birds and fish and sea...", "that aluminum can still require plastic lining, or it'll taint the liquid.", "Yeah i don't know why I never thought of this. If we just worked to keep it out of the ocean, food supply, etc for.now that buys time to learn how to recycle it later.", "Wall-E was right", "Glass is actually super recyclable. The argument against using glass is that it's heavier to transport than plastic, thereby increasing fuel costs. From a recycling perspective it is great.", "Those landfills are not in the middle of nowhere, away from waterways. Some of those landfills will collapse and shed debris that'll be carried into waterways.\n\nLook at it this way. Those recycling companies says they are recycling your trash, but they don't. What are the chances that they'll construct an impregnable landfill. Odds are, and we have seen this, they'll outsource it to the cheapest locale they could find. And it's no longer their problem.", "...and 20,000 tons of plastic...and a fire.", "They look so swede though", "Or, worse yet, they know their power, but can't share it because social media sites have explicitly banned any words/ideas being shared that call for any particular direct action against the systems that are perpetuating all of this suffering.\n\nIt's totally fine for me to say we need to stop the profit motive from running our economy. \n\nBut if I were to tell you what things must be done to undermine society's belief that the profit motive is guiding us anywhere but destruction (like schmurn schmown the schmor schmofit schmanks and replacing them with co-ops using local, negative interest currencies) I'm likely to get banned and added to a 3-letter agency's watchlist.", "There are several studies indicating that exposure to aluminium increases neurological diseases though.", "I am very dubious of this. Landfills that do not leak or leech sounds very optimistic to me, and over what timeframe are we talking? Surely it can't be indefinitely? \n\nAlso, even if this is true in the USA, the UK for ages was shipping all its plastic to be dumped or burnt in places like Malaysia, Indonesia. I would be incredibly surprised if they met the same standards for landfills.", "Heads should roll. A new category of crime: \"crimes against our future\".", "bro what the fuck are you talking about???", "schm= b \nschm= d \nschm= f \nschm= p \nschm= ?\n\n&#x200B;\n\nsomething about social upheaval.", "They fool us by transferring responsibility from companies who produce, promote, and earn money from this to people who just have to use it. \n\nBan is the only solution", "Aluminium can be endlessly just melted down and reformed into something else without loss of anything in return like structural integrity. Aluminium is also profitable to recycle as it takes immense amounts of energy to create to begin with. That's why Iceland which thanks to geothermal power have very cheap energy has an aluminium industry.", "Oh, I know. I was just reiterating what they said.", "And the part of the ship the front fell off.", "got it thanks sexy tadpole", "Påryd is more like a village than a town, just 651 people live there, big enough to have a library though. :p", "Sweden incinerating(not the same as burning) plastics (and trash in general) is not some big conspiracy. Waste-to-energy (which is a recycling process, albeit dirty) has been a long established part of the Swedish energy infrastructure for many decades. The only people who act like it's a scam are those who never bother to educate themselves.", "This is bad, and really widespread, but please don't let it stop you recycling altogether. I pretty much don't care any more about putting plastic in the recycling, but:\n\n* Aluminium cans will be recycled, they are just about the only thing that are really efficient to recycle.\n* Garden waste and food waste is still disposed of responsibly in most areas where they separate it out.\n* Cardboard and paper may or may not be recycled, but even if it isn't, it's very much bio-degradeable and it makes sense to have its environmental impact managed until it does.\n* With glass I understand it also isn't recycled as often as we like to think, but it's not on quite as bad a scale as plastic. Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not so sure about this one.", "Well there is always the option to not comment if one doesn't have the time to watch what am I talking about this is reddit", "The \"burned cleanly\" might be ambigous, he means that stuff can be filtered out, respectively burned until only raw elements or their oxides are left", "\"Oh great, I'm surrounded by reiteraters!\"", "I still get so pissed off when my neighbours go off at me for putting everything in one bin.\n\nLike, I'm sorry but fuck this, I don't have the fucking energy for the entire fucking scam to make us feel better about the environment, I'm gonna go make an actual difference by donating vast amounts to seagrass and reef preservation projects in my country and do more than your fucking boomer lies ever actually achieved. Those bins should all be the same fucking color because it all means the same goddamn thing anyway. \n\nI said it better [here](https://twitter.com/KrisLorischild/status/1388682095061463040) of course, but my comment got removed, but apparently exists as some big deal on twitter.", "I do think landfill is an underrated option due to the poor ways in has been implemented in the past. Fundamentally the oil that plastic is made from came out of the ground, it should really just go back.\n\n It's probably quite expensive to do it right though, like most things. Easier just to have a big heap of garbage a few miles outside of town in a politically unloved region", "Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb can be extremely depressing due to all the darkness, so many Swedes take a holiday to go get some sun. Swedes have 5 weeks of vacation so it's common practice to save a few vacation weeks for the winter to go and recharge on a sunny beach in some southern country.", "But without effective carbon capture it is not really a great solution. And there is not much of that in Germany though they do try now and then.", "It's not supposed to fall off. There are strict regulations for these sort of warehouses.", "Always good to be dubious. Most liners are made from HDPE and have a half life of 500 years. Most landfills are also required to be double lined and have a thick clay layer as well as insulation for the liners. So they will last a long time. Also plastics are far from the biggest problem in landfills. There’s a bunch of other chemicals that get dumped that are bigger issues if the liners fail. \n\nI was dubious of sending plastics overseas except for when the cargo ships were empty anyway (other wise very wasteful) and it was being reused or downgraded. For the most part, I think we should sit on the plastics in the US except for what can be reused. I think landfills are a great solution for plastics as they offer a long term storage, and we can reclaim the plastic later when it becomes economical to use it.", "With the micro plastic pollution, I'd rather have my non recyclable rubbish incinerated than put into landfill.", "For those wondering about the reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM", "Thank you for the follow up on this.", "Climate town is the shit", "https://youtu.be/ooB5iIqZnB0", "Incinerating, not burning. The process is different. You don't get soot and small particulates by incarnation due to higher temperatures and pressure as it also combust the fumes. The gases are scrubbed for heavier gases like dioxins but the co2 remains and is released into the atmosphere, that's the main drawback to incineration.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste-to-energy", "Reducing demand only gets you so far. And I think you are right about the onus being on the big companies. Should be obvious to them by now we need full life cycle solutions for plastics that have effectively zero net impact on the environment.\n\nIt's just a lot cheaper and far easier to buy the politicians.", "I can’t do shit- I don’t produce products. Manufacturers should do it- large corporations should push it. We as individuals have virtually zero power to change shit like that. People have been screaming about recycling and landfills for 30 years now and what good has it done? Nothing. \n\nAs sad as it is, we’re fucked unless CEOs pay off politicians to push change.", "Why is it cheaper to bury? Can't they just burn it up in some way?", "Even when you don't recycle glass, nothing happens as long as it isn't mixed with other pollutants (lead in old glass).\n\nGlass literally just breaks down over time into pretty rocks. Plastic exists basically forever and breaks down into tiny particles that aren't good for us, wildlife or plantlife.\n\nGlass is made from three abundant and natural ingredients: sand, limestone and soda ash. When glass breaks down, it remains safe and stable, and releases no harmful chemicals into the soil. So even when glass isn’t recycled, it does minimal harm to the environment.", "[Dioxins aren't flammable and are toxic](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/339479/Dioxins_General_Information_phe_v1.pdf)\n\nMercury is toxic and is a base element.\n\n\"PCBs are non-flammable, chemically stable, and have high boiling points. Due to their high level of stability, PCBs have been used in hundreds of industrial and \ncommercial applications and products. PCBs are regulated under the Toxic Substances Control Act\"\n\n&#x200B;\n\nEvery byproduct, even if filtered, will still have to be safely disposed of. That just moves the problem. \n\nDon't burn plastic.\n\nSource: Physics major with chemistry minor.", "Don't most plastics aside from pvc not have a lot of chlorine in them?", " In the nordics waste-to-energy is defined as a recycling process. It will eventually go through the waste-to-energy system, so recycled into heating by incineration but not recycled into new plastics.", "https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g\nHere is a video describing it, dude is hilarious.. Definitely worth a watch, same for the rest of his videos", "That's why aluminum cans are coated on the inside to stop the contents coming in contact with the metal.", "Aluminum is a lot heavier than plastic. If you ship a container made of aluminum across the world its way worse co2-wise than plastic. Aluminum also require ridiculous amounts of electricity to process, which again is absolutely terrible for the climate.\n\nPlastics are bad for the environment but because of the low weight and efficiency of production, most things are worse for the climate. Paper bags have a much higher co2 footprint that plastic bags for instance.", "Don't be a \"useful idiot.\" I'm making using it ironically because this is how corrupt government officials enrich themselves through \"green\" policies.", "Nitrous oxides are still a harmful pollutant even if those problems were magically solved. They're the exact thing that cut a hole in the ozone layer because people kept spraying them in hairspray.\n\nAlso, let's say you can engineer a magical filter for the toxic materials. What do you do with the filtered material? Landfill? Ocean dump it?\n\nIf you want to further break it down that's an intensive process and completely mitigates any energy you'd get from burning plastic in the first place. \n\nAt best it's a process that requires huge investment and chemical processing to consume energy just to get rid of plastic waste and it still punches a hole in the ozone.\n\nSource: Physics student with chemistry minor.", "This is reddit. We base our opinions solely on the headline you provide", "This \"traveling\" can also be somewhat misleading. As an Estonian we don't consider e.g. going to Helsinki (Finland) or Latvia a travel. Sometimes we just go there for a day to have a small break or try some other flavor of ice cream etc. Just hop into a car/ferry and go. But statistics count this as international travel.", "I only know half the time", "Negative on the glass bottles - heavy, expensive to manufacture, and inefficient to recycle (not saying you can't do it, it's just not a great process, takes a lot of energy). \n\nAluminum (or aluminium depending on where you're located relative to the Atlantic) is where it's at. 100% recyclable, really cheap once it's in it's pure form (ie, once it's recycled) and easy to stamp into a variety of shapes. \n\nPretty soon we're going to hit the tipping point where most aluminum in use has been recycled once already, which I think is really neat.", "Land is super cheap in Nevada. Half the state is basically uninhabited. And burying is better for the environment, both hypothetically and in practice. Incinerators are occasionally very harmful in practice, making them less ideal (plus you still need to deal with the ashes, which are often buried in landfills).", "Yeah, I have a ton of plastics that aren't single-use in sight right now. A watering can, a litter box, various remotes, etc.\n\nNone of those is really going to kill the world by virtue of being plastic. They are going to be in use for 5+ years each at the very least, some a great deal longer.", "I never could put my finger on this development! I really dislike the fluff as well.", "Sure, in places without air quality laws. But think about it. You want live, or even work at, a plant that burns waste materials? Even the best filters wont get all the garbage out of the air. Nasty business that. Unless you're like Norway (iirc) who burns garbage for energy. But they've got specialized centers, and it's heavily subsidized, so not exactly throwing it in a pit and burning it.", "If you read a little further into the wikipedia page...\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated_biphenyl#Methods_of_destruction\n\nPCBs are technically attractive because of their inertness, which includes their resistance to combustion. Nonetheless, they can be effectively destroyed by incineration at 1000 °C. When combusted at lower temperatures, they convert in part to more hazardous materials, including dibenzofurans and dibenzodioxins. When conducted properly, the combustion products are water, carbon dioxide, and hydrogen chloride. In some cases, the PCBs are combusted as a solution in kerosene. PCBs have also been destroyed by pyrolysis in the presence of alkali metal carbonates.[2]\n\n> Mercury is toxic and is a base element.\n\n...and it can be filtered out. Also, what plactics contain mercury, except in trace amounts?\n\nBut thanks for the downvote, Mister very smart physics major lol", "aren’t aluminium cans lined with plastic?", "> “in a politically unloved region”\n\nAh, Staten Island", "Incineration leads to significantly less greenhouse gases than putting it into landfills.", "It’s a difficult choice. Often alternatives to plastic end up being more CO2 intensive or poisons the world in different ways.", "The numbers are more for the recycling processor, not the consumer, and the other numbers can be recycled in their own ways (for the most part), along with plastics that aren't even numbered", "No, New Jersey.", "I had no ikea that the Swedish liked large warehouses...\n\nOR DID I.", "We're finding all sorts of new things to do with waste plastics, they're even building flooring out of them now", "The only guaranteed way to change nothing is to do nothing. Some places do recycle - particularly highly reusable stuff like glass and aluminium. You can also vote for parties with greener policies. That’s progressive democrats and republicans in USA. Green Party in most other western democracies.", "It's the most recycleable so the biggest deposit because it's the most important to get back.", "You can still make a personal impact by avoiding unnecessary plastic altogether or at least reducing consumption.\n\nThat's why \"recycle\" is the last option in \"reduce, reuse, recycle\".", "Republicans?", "Was this happening here, in OP's video?\n\nI mean was the intention to ship all this plastic to China or somewhere to actually recycle it but didn't end up there because China stopped importing it?\n\nOr they didn't even bother to recycle these in the first place?", "Nope! It's \"a food grade lacquer\" that gets sprayed on and baked, and burns away when the can is melted down. \n\nSteel and tin cans (like for green beans) are still lined with some sort of polymer, it's not plastic like we think of it.", "90% of \"recycled\" plastic is either burned, tossed into the ocean, or put into landfills. Recycling plastic is a meme created by plastic lobbyists to make people content with using so much garbage and not demanding actual reform which would hurt the bottom line of plastic makers. \n\nThe only goal of capitalism is to turn capital into more capital. It requires lying, cheating, stealing, exploitation, slavery, and maximizing negative externalities to make the most profit. If company A wont do it, company B will and outcompete company A. \n\nThe whole system is incompatible with humanities goals and must be dismantled.", "No. Most plastic recycling consists on shipping it to a third world country, like Malaysia, where it gets fucking burned.", "Of course it can. Stop buying plastic made stuff and plastic wrapped stuff. If 90% of the US decided to boycott plastic, what do you think would happen?\n\n\"Individuals can't change shit\" is a perfect way to shift away blame and responsibility. And large corporations love it.", "The presence of the gps trackers deemed the loads to be contaminated so the loads became unrecoverable", "The last one is also a \"b\"", "So everybody who was stocking these bales would be looking for a quiet way to dispose of them.", "I know glas bottles are not recycled due to the fact that you can't be sure that they will shatter, and there is no such thing as \"remelting\" the glas or similar. They are usually crushed and mixed into other stuff like concrete or asphalt as fillers.", "Then aluminum!! Haha, whatever it takes we just gotta stop using so much plastic if it’s unable to be recycled.", "hes a stupid fucking keyboard larper saying we should kill every rich person and/or anyone who commits wrongthink", "Yes, Republicans. They're not the baby eating ogres the media made you believe. Some care about the planet.", "BBC reported it. [It's in Turkey.](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-53181948)", "Sure but that's plastic I guess though far less than a full plastic package", "That was the one!", ">Also, let's say you can engineer a magical filter for the toxic materials. What do you do with the filtered material? Landfill? Ocean dump it?\n\nYou keep them savely stored. I don't think you understand the dimensions. Here in switzerland we incinerate millions of tons of garbage, and we are left with a few m^3 of heavy metals per year.\n\n>If you want to further break it down that's an intensive process and completely mitigates any energy you'd get from burning plastic in the first place. \n\nIf that was the case, modern incineration plants wouldn't produce any energy lol. You make absolutely no sense\n\nOh, but you got a major in physics and a minor in chemistry, i forgot! That makes you right ofc, sorry! \n\nMaybe read a little before you talk out of your ass...\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration", "You only listed food and drinks.\n\nCanned soap, shampoo, toothpaste, bleach.", "A similar thing actually happened in Sweden. A government agency/program won an award for their superb work in collecting, handling and recycling of old batteries. Then it turned out that no one actually knew what had happened to the batteries that were sent to \"recycling\". When journalists started looking around they finally found that all those hundreds of tons of batteries had been given to a private company that had been contracted to take care of them. \n\nThey instead sold them to a really poor African country which was extracting the mercury within the batteries through a process that was super damaging to the environment, peoples health and so on. I think it was through burning. \n\nThen there was also that time that a company hired by a municipality to take care of trash and recycling just dug a hole out in the forrest and dumped it all in there.", "[Incineration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration) \n \n >Incineration is a waste treatment process that involves the combustion of substances contained in waste materials. Industrial plants for waste incineration are commonly referred to as waste-to-energy facilities. Incineration and other high-temperature waste treatment systems are described as \"thermal treatment\". Incineration of waste materials converts the waste into ash, flue gas and heat.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Wasnt this a simpsons episode lol", "Not \"w\"? Whoops! quietly pulls up pants", "Yes climate town is what you want", "Councils outsource the recycling then those companies use labour hire, it's a high turnover job that pays crap and your treated crap like pallet repair. \n\nI doubt they care about items snuck in.", "You realize the video this whole thread is based on is about a Swedish company that is completely making up its numbers and has been doing so for decades? Numbers used in national statistics.", "Water flows downwards", ">Fundamentally the oil that plastic is made from came out of the ground, it should really just go back.\n\nThat's a huge misrepresentation of how things are. Oil comes from very deep, from within the rock, way beneath land and water. Landfills are basically trash dumped on top of the land, then covered with a bit of sand so it doesn't smell. Landfills contaminate both the soil and the water. All those chemicals, microplastics, endocrine disruptors, etc get washed down to, and integrated into, aquifers. We're basically [eating](https://news.mongabay.com/2020/07/our-life-is-plasticized-new-research-shows-microplastics-in-our-food-water-air/) and [drinking](https://www.surfrider.org/coastal-blog/entry/microplastics-found-in-bottled-and-tap-drinking-water%20/) plastic every day, it's [everywhere](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/22/microplastics-revealed-in-placentas-unborn-babies), and it's going to [kill us](https://www.zmescience.com/science/microplastics-human-health-09122021/).", "My first thought was the same, but then I realised that I carry a reusable glass water bottle with my every day in my backpack without issues. It definitely is heavier though!\n\nMy main issue with glass soda bottles (and cans) is that they usually don't have a cap you can screw on, so you have to drink the whole thing at once. That being said, I do prefer cans in general, but will get plastic bottles if I'm on the move, because of the cap.", "It is but plastics provide a huge amount of thermal energy that when burnt replaces coal & natural gas as a source of power. They put the filters in landfill but they are much smaller than the mass of plastics.\n\nAlso, as plastics don't really break down at least incineration doesn't increase the amount of micro plastics in our environment.", "Yet. Soon in central/eastern Europe until this plastic will be utilized by sudden combustion.", "It's simple. The whole plastic issue, even that in the ocean is solvable, but no one wants to pay for it. First stop export of waste beyond your possibilities of control. Recycling must be checked constantly, there is high criminal energy in this sector. This means more expensive recycling and burning of non recycable materials. Regarding plastic, most of it can't be recycled economically. Second, if companies can setup production facilities in development countries why not waste burning facilities? Set them up and PAY for running them. Yes, we need to pay for their waste otherwise they will dump it into the ocean. Don't like it? That's why things don't change. And go away with your idiotic futile ocean waste collecting crap. It's like removing the top of an iceberg and removing water from a flooded home while the broken pipe is not yet closed. Yeah, you can sooth your conscience that you \"have done something\". Good for you, Sisyphus.", "I work at a university. In my office are two bins, one for trash and the other for recycling. Our university makes a huge deal about recycling and making sure that we understand what can and can't go in the \"single-stream\" recycling bins in our offices. \n\nA facilities worker comes by to empty my bins around 6pm every day, so on the rare occasions that I'm there working late, I grab my bins and hand them to them because they're behind my desk. Every single time, no matter which facilities employee it is, they just dump both bins into one big trash can.", "1 is PET and I work in that Industry. Some of the products we make are 100% recycled material. We don't like doing 100% because it is more brittle than having a bit of virgin in it but it can be done.", "A small, rich, island nation like Iceland could actually make a zero residue recycling system work though.", "Damn, I miss Clarke and Dawe.", "Mmmm.. lacquer", "it produces less co2 per energy than coal and is only a bit worse then oil, so as long as we still burn fossil fuels for energy it makes sense to first make useful plastics from it before burning it.", "Interesting and then some of Sweden recycled plastic ended up in Latvia in 2018 and got caught up in fire.....", "Doubtful", "Most of Europes recycled garbage is somewhere in Asia.", "Agreed, I think pretty much everyone in Sweden knows this.", "Us in sweden too. The sorting beforehand is on the extreme end to make sure recycleables and batteries and whatever are taken care of separately, filtration is also extreme with just CO2, nitrogen and water coming out of the smokestacks. Definitely more expensive in the short term than just burying the stuff, but the energy is used to directly heat housing (much more efficient than converting to electricity) and we are a net-importer of garbage and have no landfills.", "Which ones?", "Lacquer is liquid plastic, and they use the term very vaguely for canning. \n\n\n \nIt's not normal nitro lacquer... mostly epoxies and phenol resins, I think.", "In our area they introduced small bins for food waste.\nThe bin men just empty them into the blue recycling bins and then empty the blue ones as normal.", "Worse than oil and you call that a good compromise lol?", "I remember in California that something similar happened. We were obligated to do all the separation and paid for recycling...it all got shipped to China and dumped. \n\nIt's been such a scam.", "Recycling as an idea itself is a good example of how a good idea (recycling glass and metal) was hijacked by a powerful lobby (plastics) and turned to shit. Now recycling bins are full of cheap plastics that are not far from being industrial waste, which of course can never be recycled, and only make it difficult to pick out recyclable materials.", "Fucking none of them, those people are loonies.", "The bottom line is that unless it's thermoplastic, you ain't easily recycling it, if at all. Best case it winds up shredded and filler for some other product. Worst case, landfill.", "Plus carbon locked up in plastics isn't going into the atmosphere. \n\nAs long as you have a decently run landfill (as the nordic countries would have) that CO2 is sequestered. \n\nWell, they burn plastic for some insane reason, but that is easy enough to stop.", "Must be the ones that immediately gut the EPA budget every time they get an ounce of power.\n\nThey're was a time when conservation was a real tenet of the Conservative movement, however that time has long since passed.", "When will launching it into space become an option? I am curious as to this one.", "So your solution is to take a relatively stable and nontoxic set of compounds, burn off a lot of the mass, manufacture filters on large scales, and then fill those filters with concentrated level of toxins and put those in landfills instead of the stable plastics? All the while pumping large amounts of nitrous oxides into the atmosphere and harming the ozone layer?", "It's definitely the best option. Clean air acts ensure low air pollution and we need the energy.", "This reminds me of the story of Starbucks having side-by-side trash and recycling bins, which both end up in the same dumpster out the back. \n\nAny employees care to confirm or deny this rumor?", "Which ones? I'm genuinely asking. Have any of them been elected to office?", "I grew up when the lesson was \"recycle, reduce, reuse, and close the loop\". There is a whole generation of folks out there who may not know or be aware of this change (and why it is so important). I'm learning a lot about what has happened with plastic recycling here -- and it is heartbreaking.", "Corruption and incompetence. Our main traits.", "'splain", "Manufacturers shifting the responsibility to the consumer, by not effectively reducing unnecessary packaging. Like you say, another part of the lie that individual \"efforts\" like that from you and me are gonna save the planet, and not that Elon or Bezos stop traveling to space for fun and reduce their megayacht usage by a decent percentage", "Which is why I said doing it right is expensive. I suppose the problem is the word \"landfill\". No reason why we couldn't bury plastic deeply.... except cost.", "The new green deal", "What is the point?", "Doesn't make it any more transparent most of what you \"recycle\" isn't even attempted to actually be recycled.", "My question was legit as I'm not American and have only come across Democrats and third party candidates / elected officials who ever cared about the environment.\n\nThe media made me believe he says. Get the fuck outta here with your presumptions.", "What about reusable glass? In many countries you pay a deposit per bottle which you get back when you bring the bottle back. The bottle then gets cleaned and reused. Surely that's better than recycling ally?", "This works to a point, but for a lot of folks they'll find it's all but impossible to go below a point because just about everything is wrapped in plastic.", "I'm pretty sure that separating waste does absolutely nothing. We better chop Amazon's guy head off if we want a less poluted air.", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration\n\nThis literally answers all your questions. But it makes you look stupid, and that can't be of course, since you're a physics major! \n\nSo let's just keep ignoring it!", "That's what I was thinking of! You've also got to think as those shit hole corporations do, do I wanna spend 100m (wild estimate) to do the right thing, or do I wanna just dig a hole and dump it for 50k.", "There's a reason why plastic bottles etc have been general waste at my local tip for years...\n\nUsed to be that you'd put it in the recycling bin then the govt / council discovered that this means nothing and it still gets landfilled so now it's general waste.", "That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point.", "That's retarded. I just picture Ralph Wiggum setting a landfil ablaze: \"I'm recycling!\"", "Single use law never even includes unnecessary packaging. All you're banning is grocery bags and straws.", "It's being burned by the family who got duped into owning it. They are just burning it, not for energy.", "They shouldn't come in anything. They should be dispensed from a reusable bulk container into the reusable bottle you bring to the store with you.", "Oh right you live in a country that burns trash and read a wikipedia article so you know more. My bad. \n\nI'll just ignore that [800,000 tonnes of ash are still produced every year.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956053X20305110) [Taking the density of the ash into consideration](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/infrastructure/pavements/97148/033.cfm), \\~1350 kg/m\\^3, and converting tonnes to kg, 800000000kg. Divide the kilograms by density and you get volume. We'll round 600000 for ease of math. 600000 cubic meters of material. Yeah that's just a few. \n\nThat's a 84 meter cube of material every year. \n\nThe alternative? 4 million tonnes of material before burning. Roughly a 7:1 Ratio.\n\nSo you concentrate your waste in a \\~7:1 ratio, chemically alter it all, and capture most of the combusted gases (except for the ozone depleting nitrous oxides, they're fine though right just wear sunscreen) and then fill filter bags or grates with those toxic as hell compounds and dump those instead. Safely stored means a landfill.\n\nCongratulations you've compacted your trash by 7:1 and harmed the atmosphere and created a whole new industry of manufacturing filters which I'm sure is done 100% ecofriendly and doesn't contribute anything with it's logistical fossil fuel cost.\n\nMaybe think and read a little before you talk out of your ass.", "Many years ago (the last time I saw one was in the late 80s), you could go to a bulk discount shop where you could fill your own containers and pay by weight.\n\nHad things like shampoo, flour, nuts, drink concentrate etc.\n\nI guess there just wasn't enough profit in it since plastic became really cheap and people couldn't be bothered to reuse.", "Don't worry, for some years many EU countries send their plastic to Romania where it gets incinerated. Actually I'm lying, \"incinerated\" implies some fancy techniques or machinery. No, it just gets burnt out in the open, and the air in Bucharest becomes unbreatheable in the nights when they do it.", "Recycling is missing the point. Glass containers are good because they can be reused.", "Compelling argument.", "Rather interesting, didn't know that. At the same time feels contradictory to use the term 'recycled' with that, especially since the idea of burning plastic creates a problem that 'recycling' is supposed to avoid (pollutants etc).", "\"Burn down the for profit banks\"\n\nI feel like im in a Cohen brothers movie", "I got a plastic container of food the other day. Embedded into the plastic was a message saying \"Please recycle me\". The label on top said \"Do not recycle\". Well, which is it young fella?\n\nIt doesn't help that there seems to be an infinite variety of recycling looking logos, all of which mean precisely bugger all about how recyclable it is.", "recycled as warehouse insulation material ftw!", "Sweden is doing something similar. They say 99% of all plastic is being recycled. 70% of that plastic is being \"recycled\" in to heat and electricity by burning it.", "Neither are. No material has 100% recycling efficiency, they all require at least some new material mixed to create a new working batch. Not to mention that recycling isn't free from an energy standpoint, and glass itself requires an extremely heat intensive process to be formed/molded.\n\nBonus points, glass decays slower than many plastics in nature. And it's heavier, thus costing more energy to transport. And it can break, increasing waste.\n\nGlass is terrible if you want to be eco-friendly.", ">meanwhile coca cola sends death squads into underdeveloped nations", "Too expensive.", "If it’s that easy to disrupt, it’s a pretty shit system, which isn’t better", "What are you going to do when every single piece of clothing you could buy has been wrapped in two plastic bags before it even got on the shelves?", "Well, it's a partial truth that is is recycled even though it's still there, speaking from Iceland's POV\n\n* Iceland sells their plastic for recycling \n* Swerec buys it\n* Swerec sells some of it to Other Company \n* Other Company goes bankrupt\n* The plastic owned by Other Company ends up in limbo\n\nIceland sold to a reputable company (Swerec's been around for like 20 years), so is it Iceland's fault the trash ended up in a warehouse in Sweden?\n\nIf I sell a car to a dealership and the dealership sells the car to a man who uses it when he robs a bank, am I to blame for supplying the getaway vehicle?", "A refill comes in a thin plastic bag. Which might be 10% of the plastic in a bottle.\n\nReuse, Reduce, Recycle", "America and anti-consumerism, name a more classic duo.", "I stopped caring about putting plastic in recycle long ago. I still do but not as religiously. At least in general wastw it won't be shipped to poorer countries where it would find its way to wildlife.", "Well, dont forget to blame the other half who is responsible for this.\n\nOil companies, or just gigantic corporations in general. They corrupted the gov officials and campaigned misinfo to the public.", "Why did COVID change things?", "I already replied to you. Keep ignoring that.", "The great victoria desert is 350,000km^2 and has absolutely nothing ever happen to it, they did nuclear testing there and nobody actually noticed\n\nSet off a bunch more nukes underground to make some big holes and slap that shit in there, she'll be right", "Why's that a big deal? I mean it's in a warehouse and not in the ocean.", "I prefer to not have children. It means a whole bunch of descendents that won't be on Earth polluting it.", "Uhm. No. \n\nThe things we burn don't turn into Co2 and whatnot. The elements are still there and are just as toxic. The \"smoke\" is pretty clean, very clean all things considered but the ashes aren't. And they do make landfills out of it. \n\nSweden, for instance. Takes in garbage from Norway, burn it and send the ashes back to Norway where it's being dumped in holes/ old mines. In some cases. In other cases we take trash from Ireland, burn and sent to Norway. Or just make a landfill. A new one was just approved last week.", "Wanting better recycling is communism etc etc. \n\nFunny how capitalism resists anything that makes society better (recycling instead of dumping), moves in to take it over, then, makes the problem worse but drives it out if the public consciousness.... while its own failures serve as an argument against doing anything to make society better (\"don't recycle, mate, it's a scam... ends up in landfill...\").", "IKEA pisses me off. \"Oh, we care about the environment so much! By the way, we've made another collection of useless plastic shit here, buy it!\"", "About 15% of plastic can be recycled. And recycled plastic is much weaker due to unavoidable contamination so it cant be recycled forever.\n\nRecycling is a scam.", "I have never heard anyone refer to an American Republican as a baby eating ogre. On that same token, I have also never heard the any phrase in my life that describes a Republican giving a copper plated shit about the environment. I mean half of them deny climate change, you expect me to fucking believe that the same party that thinks coal and fossil fuels are cleaner than Sun and Hydro is also a champion of the environment? lol \n\nName a fucking Republican (from this decade) who champions the Environment. \n\nDid you just wake up from a coma? Like a 35 year coma?", "Look into Quantafuel. They are allready at it, and sends “new” plastic to BASF.", "if that's 60% it's not a lot overall though. is island sooooo tiny :) ?\n\nso lucky it was -8c for the smell :)\n\nedit: I see, only 60% of exported plastic (for exported for recycling...)", "It usually gets poured into one trash collector anyway so yeah why bother.", "Send it to the sun or the blackhole. Include nuclear waste as well!", "I mean, this is a rambling load of nonsense. But I don’t know if you realised you just posted the thing you said you couldn’t to social media..", "They've got two near me, but my city has been burning it. It's actually actively better if you DON'T recycle here because then it at least goes into landfill rather than the atmosphere. \n\nRecycling in my city actually causes more environmental damage.", "But its only their fault for voting wrong with limited choices but still so very wrong much of the time. Its the fault of the government and the corporations. Not the peoples fault for being forced into corrupt processes except for their votes and where they spend their money.\n...\n....\n\n\nBTW boycott Kelloggs and all associated companies that work for or with Kellogg!", "it will eventually recycle itself… just takes a few million years in the swedish warehouse", "I lost faith in the system when I saw my regular garbage and recycling being dumped into the same truck. \n\nThere are real recycling systems in places like Germany, but they're complex, expensive, and need to be run by proper adults who aren't grifters.", "I'm all for properly incinerating trash for energy, but let's not start claiming that \"incinerate\" and \"burn\" are not synonyms. \"Incinerate\" is not some reserved word that automatically means it's used for energy production.", "It's too short-sighted to only consider greenhouse gasses as the only form of pollution. \nWhile it sucks that the transport and the recycling won't be \"carbon neutral\", (irrepairable) damage to ecosystems is way harder to fix.", "He wasn’t. You can make tougher bottles, but the weight goes. The transport cost goes up. The profit goes down.", "Dunno, just extrapolated based on recent events.", "I don’t think the point is to never buy anything that has any plastic wrapping whatsoever ever again, but rather reducing consumption wherever possible.", "Our local recycling doesn't even take most types of recycling", "Liquid Death is a brand of canned water.", "Not if it costs more to dispose of them than it does to just hold on to them until maybe the market would change, and someone else in this thread has said that new markets for this stuff has opened up.", "i think this was also back in the day when you'd return the bottles back to the store, so they could recoup some of the cost by reusing them. But you'd still have higher transport costs due to the weight.", "For every product? And every brand? Shampoo, detergent, floor cleaner, bleach, perfumes, dental care, dish soap, etc. There would need to be entire installments across every store with chemicals freely pumping out of them. If you've ever been to a McDonald's and seen a drink or ketchup dispenser left on or used to make a mess, you'll know that people are by and large awful and will look for every opportunity to be shitty. Ignoring that, people will also make mistakes that no one can foresee. So you have gallons of chemical pumped into the floor of an area where people will be passing through. And this will happen on average of once a month at every store.\n\nThere's no way to maintain something like that on the scale you're talking about. I'm sure somewhere in a city of a country that's beautiful, you'll find what you described. But globally, it's not going to work. Believe me, I want to be able to regulate the use of plastics or see them gone entirely. But idealistic solutions won't get us anywhere without realistic perceptions.", "Until recycling is more profitable than landfilling this will never stop", "https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g this video has always been enlightening", "Jesus Christ how can you not see them as the man with the plan!?!?!?", "Schmwat?", "They lied to all of us. And now we're gonna suffocate in plastic.", "Does recycled just mean it's not in the landfill then now?", "Animals are crapping in our houses, and we're picking it up. Did we lose a war? That's not America. That's not even Mexico!", "wtf really?", "1 ton of MSW is typically reduced by 65-70% after it’s burned into bottom ash, recoverable, and heavy metals. That alone is HUGE. 4 million tons of waste? Yawn. Thats the amount of MSW burned through November at a smaller waste to energy company. That doesn’t account for the construction and demolition waste that can’t be burned that’s being buried as we speak. The amount of space waste consumes is a pretty big part of the overall trash issue we have a society. It’s an extremely complex issue that is still being solved. One of the mitigation efforts should be to consume less, but society clearly won’t do that. Reducing the amount of space it takes up in the mean time is what we can do.", "This is kinda why I hate the idea of biodegradable plastics. A few plastics are legit biodegradable but mostly they break down in the presence of oxygen and uv light into microplastics that end up in the food chain, atmosphere or ocean. \n\nYou can burn it but then it's adding carbon in an age where we need to be going the other way. \n\nFrankly the best thing we can do is use long lived plastics that don't break down, shed/compact them and sequester them underground. The oil that made them came from the ground so we're basically just moving things around after crosslinking them. On some levels, making bioplastics out of corn or other plants and then burying it is the most successful kind of carbon capture. There's not really a better way to store carbon permanently than as a long chain of cross linked polymers.", "Do you really want to blast unrenewable natural resources into space, at least on earth we can dig them up and recycle later, if it really came down to it.", "That's the thing: 'clean, relatively speaking' isn't the same as 'clean'. You can pick from any of the filtration systems in the world (as of today) and you're still going to be stuck with tons of mercury, dioxin, sulfur, etc. emissions into the atmosphere. Plus, you're stuck with ashes with a way higher concentration of nastiness that you now have to deal with. Garbage gasification plants emit many times more pollution per ton than coal, because we use mercury, sulfur, lead, etc. compounds in common materials like ink on packaging and other consumer goods like that.\n\nGasification might work eventually, when all the source materials to be burned are cleaner, or if/when filtration improves. But we're not there yet. I'd be far less concerned about a ton of bulk waste escaping containment than I would be a ton of fly ash.", "Yes, but the Democrats won and still control San Francisco.\n\nSo ... greater good.\n\nThey needed to scam you and it worked. But you're happy they did, right?", "https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/jul/24/marketingandpr.colombia\n\nWell i misremembered a bit, its not privately owned but they paid for them anyway.", "That's fair. What's your favorite flavor of ice cream?", "Whereabouts in the north? And that is awesome, what made you choose Kenya?", "Imagine the kids running down the isles, draining all the dispensers as they go...", "Well for that specific scenario, reuse existing clothes to reduce purchases of new ones.", "Yes, that's the IBA you clown. It is further reduced by fractioning out the metals. Nice try though. Here a graphic from the study you linked (Did you even read it?):\n\nhttps://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0956053X20305110-gr1.jpg\n\nAlso those 4 million tons of trash take up way more space since they have a lower density than the ash. So all your math is pointless anyway. If you find the actual number of what's left after treatment of the IBA you can try again.", "What exactly are you embarrassed about? A Swedish company that was hired to partly recycle the waste lied about doing so.", "We called that time of year \"the Dark Ages\" where I grew up; I imagine it is even darker for you. Also, you guys definitely have a better work/life balance figured out with regards to vacation. Do you have plans for this winter?", "The Reykjavík Grapevine did some wonderful reporting on the volcano, i have nothing but respect for them as an organization.", "Recycling plastics is a scam. Penn and Teller told us all this a decade ago.", "I keep bringing this up with people who say it's a personal choice.\n\nGo to the supermarket or greengrocers.\nNow try buying blueberries, cucumbers, tomatoes, meat, or cheese with no plastic...\n\nI don't know any option for even buying most of those things any other way, and good luck if you are in a food desert or poor.", "To be honest, microplastic is gonna be such a huge problem, better to burn it away than continue to let plastic degrade and destroy the environment. \n\n[Microplast shown to infiltrate blood brain barrier](https://newatlas.com/environment/microplastics-blood-brain-barrier/)\n\n[First evidence of microplastics in human placenta](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412020322297)\n\n[Microplastics are everywhere - but are they harmful?](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01143-3)\n\nWe need to stop using plastic NOW", "I’m just wondering if it is technically feasible in any way to send all this junk far enough down into the earth that it directly goes into the magma, or placing it sufficiently close to a subduction zone that it ends up under the crust, or what’re the technical/cost obstacles towards doing so.", "Wall-E is one half of a two part documentary made by time travellers.\n\nThe first half is called Idiocracy.", "Better than what's done in Nunavut. At least it's in a warehouse and not floating in the ocean.\n\nNOTE: The garbage isn't dumped in the ocean, but the dumps are usually nearby the ocean and ravens tear open the bags, then the intense winds of the arctic blow the garbage out to sea.\n\nIt's a depressing site, mid march seeing a lot of garbage on the sea ice, frozen into the strata of the snow.", "It's usually significantly cheaper to manufacture new plastic than it is to recycle it. When they're no customers willing to pay for the recycled product they aren't going to go through the process.", "I'm from PEI, Canada and up until 2007 our province had a ban on carbonated beverages in both plastic or aluminum containers. All beer, pop, etc was in a glass bottle. Until the early 2000s, we had a locally owned beverage manufacturer who also had the contract for distribution of Pepsi products, and their operations were fully set up to use 355ml, 750ml and 1.5L glass bottles. \n\nWe had among the highest recycling rates in north America. Then Pepsi finally bought out the local guys, moved their production to a different location, and there was no incentive to help the local manufacturer and the jobs that they provided. The 'can ban' was lifted and cans and plastic bottles came roaring in. It opened up the market to off-brand colas and products like red bull that we previously couldn't buy, but there's just something missing about the taste from the glass bottles. Cans I think are fine but the taste from plastic bottles is just fair. \n\nWe do still have a very high recycling rates here though. About 80% of all beverage containers make their way back to recycling depot's and our government has contracts with raw materials buyers to purchase the used containers by weight. We pay 10 cents deposit per container at retail then get 5 cents back from the recycling depot. The other 5 cents go to the depots, transportation, and processing facilities and the only way they break even is on the raw materials sales.", "I stopped watching him after his video on [\"How China Became So Powerful\"](https://youtu.be/qw-FLc7Z01Q). I had become somewhat irritated with his style because of all the fluff, but this video is just unbearable. Spending 15 minutes rambling about China's history and some somewhat related graphs to ultimately come to the conclusion \"because capitalism\" gave me a really off feeling. It honestly felt like he was reading a script he didn't write himself. Then finding out it was sponsored content for the World Economic Forum really destroyed any credibility he had left in my eyes. Here's a good video outlining the problems with this type of sponsorship. https://youtu.be/Dum0bqWfiGw\n\nEdit: Spelling", "It is in the UK.", "Between your comment and the few other replies, that makes sense. Proximity, time to travel, and harsher winters certainly can incentivize vacationing.\n\nSpeaking of winters, what are some of your favorite snowy activities /u/TheWinterLord?", "Maybe we'd all drink less of it if it was in glass. \n\nTastes way better in glass that's for sure.", "Even plastic bottles aren't fully recyclable. They must still be mixed with x% of virgin plastic to be used to make new bottles, you can never make new bottles entirely out of recycled ones. \n\nNot only that, but there can't be any food remnants, mixed plastic types or labels on it, all these things degrade the quality of the plastic and make it harder to be recycled.", "> Bottled water should be canned water.\n\nHonestly bottled water is one of the DUMBEST things humanity has ever done to itself. Many countries are lucky as hell that we have legally mandated drinking water everywhere, and what do we do? \n\nWe bend over backwards to buy it in the WORST possible container from massive corps that they buy up the rights to re-bottle the same damn water coming from the tap.\n\nSingle use bottled water should really not exist. In a can or otherwise.", "They turn it in to compost in our area. Its mixed with wood and produces a really high quality compost better than what i was getting from the diy stores.\n\nHowever i suspect there is issues with costs in producing it.", "Jesus christ when the fuck did you move the goalposts so far. The literal first thing I said was to not burn plastic because of the pollutants and your argument is now that trash density makes it fine because of rare metals you can get from non plastics? You can separate metals from plastics just as well, that's literally what recycling plants do.", "I agree, but climate change is also causing irreparable damage to ecosystems.", "Today I learned that I produce 60% of Icelands plastic (2016), in about a month", "Exactly. Monitoring something like that would be next to impossible. It would be chaos.", "That's stupid.\n\nIt should be single use. Like used once", "Cool! Then burn the organics! But how does any of that justify burning plastics??? You can macerate them and compact them easily. When in this argument did you think I was against burning biomass like waste timber, food products, etc. I literally started this comment section talking about the harms of burning plastic. Now you're arguing that recovering metals from non plastics justifies burning plastics. Separate your fucking trash and burn the organics but leave plastic alone since it literally just pours even more CO2 into the atmospheric with a litany of other harmful compounds.", "Don't really have one. I like to try out anything new or exotic and that goes for everything. From everything living in the sea, flying in the air or growing on land, which also made me try surströmming, that I wouldn't recommend even for my worst enemies 🙂", "People shouldn't be caught by surprise from that. Time to wake up and realize what plastic is. Even that team ocean plastic clean-up team didn't tell in their videos where they gonna put it but take your money and then plastic back in the ocean.", "Be like philly, we only recycle. \n\n&#x200B;\n\n&#x200B;\n\nWe also support an ecosystem by delivering our garbage to Jersey to continue and perpetuate the dirty jersey nickname and our superiority complex. Most of our recycling gets rejected and goes along for the trip with the trash. Then we have these “trash fires” that are more specifically recycling fires since no trash processing goes on out here.", "You would get along very well with my family if you will go on a small trip to just to get out and try a flavor of ice cream. Also, I like to think I have an adventurous palate, but from what I've heard about surstromming, I think I would be hard-pressed to do more than a spoonful.", "They're playing the long game. In Trillions of years they will have all the oil. Is this how stonks works?", "If able bring your own bags or shop at farmer's markets, and if you get your meat from the butcher they'll wrap it in paper. I haven't used those little plastic bags to individually weigh every vegetable I buy in over a decade.\n\nI don't have a solution for blueberries, even with a cardboard carton they'll be cling wrapped, but everything else is pretty easy. Some butcher's use a plastic lined butcher paper, some still use wax, I feel like either is an improvement over the plastic bin and wrap off the shelve, or just don't eat meat (a step I'm not prepared to make lol).", "We just don't put them into plastic. In the US a lot of produce isn't prewrapped, such as tomatoes.", "Stop buying new clothes every year?\n\nI think too many people replace clothes before they have to.", "Yea because recycling is bullshit unless a large corporation finds a way to make money off of it. I read that a majority of recycled refuse just goes to the landfill anyway", "Duhh", "What? That's not true at all, glass drinking bottles are completely recyclable.", "Well, plastic [Recycling is a scam](https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g) so not at all surprised.", "Serious question, why don't we just dump it into a volcano? 🌋", "\"in\"", "https://www.npr.org/2019/07/12/741283641/episode-926-so-should-we-recycle\n\nStop recycling lol", "People always forget the (more important) first two aspects if the environmental triangle. \n\n1. REDUCE \n2. REUSE \n3. Recycle \n\nYou cant just recycle and be good. If people went out of the way for the first two manufacturers would take notice and play to it. Instead we have individually wrapped Ramen noodles shipped to us via Amazon...", ">I feel like\n\nThat right there is the problem. There's no solid data on which is better in total or what the tradeoffs are. Decades ago we switched from paper to plastic, now we're switching back. And that plastic waste is just a drop in the bucket. Most stuff that's being done likely only serves as a feel good distraction.", "Serious question, why don't we just dump our trash into a volcano? Wouldn't that be like the best way to recycle back to the earth.", "Better than the bottom of the ocean. Just saying.", "Regulation cannot change material properties", "This is what everyone does. Stricter environmental regulations in our country? Just send make it in India or China and boom clean company.", "Some people want to watch the world burn just so they can get a little bit of warmth.", "Where do you shop that clothing has been wrapped in two layers of plastic?", "Its not perfect solution but try to name a better one.", "Literally anywhere. It gets unpacked before you get to see it", ">Citizens United\n\nYou have no clue what Citizens United was about, do you?", "\\cue the more you know rainbow", "Only about 10% of plastic is recycled or can be recycled, and really that only means once through recycling. There is still a lifecycle cost of recycled plastic. Recycling does help reduce plastic use, but it is not the answer. We need to drastically cut or even eliminate plastic use.\n\nThere are schemes to turn plastic waste into bricks or shoes or whatever. That is the wrong move. The plastic particles are still in the environment and will eventually break down and enter the food chain of other organisms. Burying it in a geologically stable area is preferred to this.", "Fun fact- Sweden imports Norway’s waste because Sweden is so much better at recycling", "Have to reuse it longer that it is reasonable for it last in order to be on par with a similar plastic and even aluminum container. \n\nGlass is very energy intensive to produce and transport. Its also a finite resource.", "Reduce, reuse, recycle. Reduce and reuse come first for a reason, they are far more effective.", "Just the opposite. Large corporations love foisting it back on individuals. That's why they push ads like the crying 'indian.' \nhttps://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-indian-crying-environment-ads-pollution-1123-20171113-story.html\n\n>In the time leading up to the first Earth Day in 1970, environmental demonstrations across the United States focused on the issue of throwaway containers. All these protests held industry — not consumers — responsible for the proliferation of disposable items that depleted natural resources and created a solid waste crisis. Enter the Crying Indian, \n\nWhat they hate and fear, and what actually works, is regulation. You can sit around and wait for 90% of Americans to agree to basically anything until you die, or you can legislate change and eliminate the problem with a stroke of a pen. Regulation is what got the US safe work standards, environmental standards and basically everything else which places human wellbeing over corporate profit.", "The average person has hundreds to thousands of pounds of plastic furniture, carpets, fabrics, mattresses, etc that have a single digit lifespan before they get tossed.\n\nSome drinking straws and soda bottles are nothing compared to that.", "Because burning trash in an uncontrolled way produces lots of toxic chemicals. In specialized facilities we can instead control the combustion process and strip the worst chemicals that are produced.", "There are alternative lining materials that are more expensive. we just use plastic because its so much cheaper.", "But the volcano already produces toxic chemical and lava is so hot it melts anything. Wouldn't it just go into the lava and then go into the earth?\n\nAlso you could just build a big conveyer belt from the bottom to the top. It would be cheaper than building long term storage facilities.", "yeah the Rule is Reduce, Reuse and recycle in that order. \n\nBut in a consumption based economic system the first two are virtually suicide.", ">It's just unfortunately horrendous for the environment.\n\nHow, specifically, is a plastic bottle that gets disposed of in a landfill more horrendous for the environment than a glass bottle?", "Marge, ixnay on the ashholetray.", "Tetrapak. Its like 70% paperboard and can be recycled to a bunch of things. Unfortunately not everywhere can recycle it, but it we should expand that.", "If there’s no profit there’s no recycling.", "Thrift shop/secondhand shop, perhaps?", "100% agree. My wife and I try to reduce our plastic waste everyday. The problem I run into now is visiting family members and my God the use of plastic bottles, styrofoam plates and plastic ware drive me nuts.\n\nI don’t want to be that person that tries to convert them because I feel that could backfire and turn them off. Instead I will opt to use a regular plate and silverware. If they ask I’ll tell them why. I also wash my dish when I’m done.\n\nIt’s just so easy and convenient to just throw things away and not having to clean anything. Sucks.", "The sooner we work towards a few universal types of plastics for the bulk of our use the better and easier it'll be to recycle", "What percentage of plastic waste in the environment is due to landfill failures?", "Buy less clothing, use it for longer, buy longer lasting clothing, if you can.\n\nReduce, not eliminate.\n\nBut yes, personally you can't so much. Regulation is needed. I think it's worth trying though.", "Co2 wise absolutely. pollution is more debatable\n\nPlastics are so incredibly easy to produce that any process of collection will override its production costs.", "Það voru ekki íslendingar sem gerðu þetta heldur Svíar. Við borguðum milljónir til að láta endurvinna en þeir lugu pg settu það í geymslu.", "So you want to add even more toxic chemicals? Lava is molten rock, do you think that it's better at burning plastic than gas burners inside specialised huge ovens where everything is controlled and optimised? \"Melting\" has nothing to do with it, if the combustion creates toxic gases they will end up in the atmosphere and increase the pollution.", "Let the local student environmental activist know.", "Petro-plastics are the tobacco of the next 50 years imo if we don't die in an inferno of raw fuel burning before hand. Catch 22 situation as I still think plastics and petroleum are critical to a modern functioning society", "A better solution is to not lie or mislead people.", "I don't think it's that much effort. That's why I do it and will continue to. If even 1% were truly recycled I'd still do it. I have 2 garbage cans. Plastic goes in one, garbage in the other. To say it's minimal effort on my part is an overstatement. It takes next to no effort to do that. And if not a damn thing is actually getting recycled I've not really wasted my time. At least I'm trying.", "If we were really worried and concerned about releasing toxins into the air we would take vastly different approaches to manufacturing all the goods that become trash in the first place. China makes most of the stuff we throw out, they aught to take the lead on cleaning up.\n\nAlso those specialized burning facilities are very expensive to build and maintain. Volcanos are free and self-maintain. We could also put the trash in containers made from lava, so it would burn up under the lava, preventing gas from coming out.", "That’s big biz propaganda", "TIL. \n\nSimple then. You could shop at consignment stores. \n\nYou could source out companies that are quality so you don't need to buy a lot. You can learn to sew so you can fix holes and buttons. You can learn to knit an make your own sweaters, gloves and hats. \n\nThere's a lot of things you can do to reduce or reuse clothing - and then you can recycle is.", "Problem caused by humans, we'll get humans to fix it", "you can't store trash forever, where do you think the trash will end up after the warehouse?", "Huh, so by shoving rubbish into a place where no one sees it counts as recycling?", "Building snowmen and skiing! :D it's mostly whatever makes my kid happy!", "I didn't read your comment - I am just going to assume you told me I am doing a great job, and to continue with what I am doing. /s", "The entire fucking economy was destroyed when everyone reduced their consumption.", "Getting so tired of how we treat our planet. I found out my SOs city just mixes the recycling with the garbage", "it's all about money, you can't make ecological change unless money is involved unfortunately", "I was actually on the sustainability committee and raised this exact issue multiple times. Most people on the committee had observed the same thing. We included it in our report to the president and board of trustees. Nothing changed. I eventually left the committee because it was clear that it only existed so that the university could say that it had a sustainability committee. It doesn't exist anymore because everyone got fed up like I did and word got around that serving on that committee was a waste of time.", "Are you serious? Where did i say you shouldn't recycle metals? It just so happens that trash isn't exclusively plastic. You are the one who brought up the study and made up the 7:1 ratio\n\nMy argument is that it's better to burn plastic and generate some additional greenhouse gases instead of filling our land with it. I think it's the lesser evil. And plastics are not stable like you claimed in another comment. They are macro molecules made out of mostly C and H chains. They decompose, even if slowly, into tiny pieces, and eventually get into the food chain.", "Läs vad jag skrev igen\n\n> coming out of the smokestacks\n\nI never said the other stuff disappears, because its obvious. Its incineration, not antimatter annihilation. \n\nOther posters were fearmongering about atmospheric pollutants, which is not a concern with the nordics trash incineration plants. The ash and filtered out compounds is awful yes, its still magnitudes better doing that whole process and being able to dispose of the ash securely in out of use mineshafts than trash rotting away in landfills and winding up in waterways.", "My reason to keep separating our plastics waste is on the off chance it does it get recycled. A slim chance of being recycled is better than the zero chance if I don’t even try. There are some ethical considerations about giving all of our garbage to poorer countries to deal with. Maybe it doesn’t balance out at all because of emissions created for shipping our recycling overseas. The reality is that I need to stop buying plastic as much as possible.", "Yeah they should be more straight up about recycling and just say that burning it is the optimal solution to an economically impossible problem.", "Unlimited funding by corporatations and dark money influencing our elections?", "People get pissed when they find out the whole recycle thing is a giant bs scam", "Still happens in places around the world. I used to have a wall of coke bottles when I was student, which until I had enough to take back to swap for another coke.\n\nedit: I just realised I'm old enough to count as \"some old dude\" to a significant part of reddit. Nevermind.", "He's one of the best content creators on YouTube..", "At least it’s not in the ocean. And eventually they’ll figure out something to do with it", "What in the fuck is taking so long to start banning plastics?", "Reduce, reuse, recycle. There’s a reason recycle is last on this list.", "Ottawa, the capital of Canada. The city mandated us to use green bins and has inspectors that check our trash bags to make sure we sort it right ...\n\nWe have 2 dumps and it's been a huge issue because we are filling them and need a new one. \n\nAnd we also have dozens of semi trucks a day that bring trash from upstate New York to dump is our landfills.", "I doubt it. No one monitors the bulk food section at my grocery store and it’s always clean. They even stock the candy at kid height without issue.", "Actually, even better, reduce is step one not two.", "Why can't we \"reuse\" plastic in the same way glass was reused? What if we standardized plastic bottles to like 10 different sizes, and tax anything non-standard?", "Every election in the US allows write-in votes. Your choices are not as limited as you think", "Capitalism has evolved past the need for censorship of revolutionary ideas. It instead absorbs the movement, co-opts the message, and destroys it from within through commercialisation.", "It might seem ridiculous but when you see how state and commercial run recycling works I think individual action is the only way to go.\n\nFor example, my art studio has been collecting and wash all the HDPE Plastics we can find. We then shred them and store them. We're currently work on plans for a heated press to make mixing buckets and pallet knives. \nUsing open source plans from here:\nhttps://preciousplastic.com/\n\nI know it seems like a drop in the bucket but what if I could learn to at least deal with a good chunk of my own waste and recycling. What if instead of the government paying waste management companies to deal with recycling they created incentives for organizations to deal with recycling internally.\n\nI know in a dreamer and most people wouldn't be on board with this but I still want to make it a reality for myself.", "WTF does this have to do with Kelloggs?", "This is just a first world country thing to do though. Canada was caught sending most of our shit to Malaysia and the Philippines I think", "Isn't there aluminium bottle?", "I don't think it will ever be an option unless they figure out a way to launch without burning fuel", "Pretty much in a similar place as this. Landfill.", "That said Sweden has a very interesting burn your garbage for energy model.", "BTW Support ALL LABOR fights from Kellogg's workers to Nurses in Massachusetts to Starbucks. Everytime the lowest run gets a pay increase, everyone else will too! You want more money from your job, get involved in Labor Strikes NOW!!\n\nhttps://aflcio.org/strike-map", "Polyethylene is just a long chain of carbon with hydrogen bonded on each side. The alkanes that make up natural gas are just short chains of carbon with hydrogen bonded on each side. If the alternative is burning natural gas then this is actually a good exchange from an environmental standpoint. \n\nWe could do far worse than burning plastic to produce energy, for instance it's worse to dump it into the ocean which is where most of it ends up.", "You indeed can say that eating surströmming is adventurous. It seemed that every fly in town flew into our back yard when the can was opened 🙂 But then again our dog seemed to quite enjoy it.", ">there's so much corrupt shit in the background.\n\nAs an American, at least we're honest and upfront about our corruption", "There go my plans to buy a new outfit every day.", "🎶 the garbage man can", "So I guess soylent green is the part in between?", "It might not necessarily be a bad thing either. At least we know where it is. Shipping shit loads of plastic to China is likely a major contributor to oceanic pollution.", "Or biodegradable stuff. Like, when I buy apples, and they are in a plastic bag, I look at the mandarin oranges in cardboard and think \"hey apples. Give that cardboard box a try.\"I saw packaging made of woven leaves once for fruit. I would be fine paying more then so I didn't have to pay for the plastic disposal later.", "This is a basic reality of recycling. It often costs WAY more, in both money and environmental impact, to recycle certain things than it does to just manufacture new stuff. But as long as it makes you feel good about yourself...", "My university had 4 bins in the trash areas, with the fourth being compost. Always seemed weird to have just one recycle bin where both aluminum cans, plastic, and paper would go into together, who's going to do all that work to separate them.", "I'm subscribed to him, watch his videos. I agree, he can sometimes ramble", "Kellogg's is in a labor dispute right now and trying to hire replacements for striking Union workers. So that part is probably more referencing the things individuals can do rather than the recycling part", "I dunno why, I suddenly thought about the people who bought toilet paper during the pandemic in enormous amount, trying to sell it to others at enormous prices when we the shelves were empty for like, 2 days.", "I'm really curious about this...couldn't the stuff just be heated up to the point of flowing and molded into bricks?", "I feel like this is a canary in a coal mine, something is going to come ahead.", "> I eventually left the committee because it was clear that it only existed so that the university could say that it had a sustainability committee.\n\nThe sad reality.\n\nI've run into this with a local development which is trying to build on a nature reserve. All they need to do is say the special magic word \"mitigation\" and it doesn't matter how many mature oaks they chop down and doormice they blend with hedge strimmers.\n\nThe \"ecologist\" they promised would be present before works started took one look under a single hedge, said \"no doormice here, good to go\", fucked off home and gave them the green light to clear the entire meadow.", "> But what do you think refills would come in? \n\nGiant drums and other reusable vessels. The system they're advocating for is one where you'd go into the shop and dispense it yourself into your own containers. There are a couple near me.\n\nThink of it like draft beer. You just roll in a new barrel and hook it up to the tap to dispense.", "It's pathetic. I have no control over the 90% of the population that will completely REFUSE* to do this no matter how much you talk to them about it. Regulation is 100% required if you want change in this area.", "Hehehh... \"but fluff\"", "Wrong. Write ins in the general election don’t do anything\n\nhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo", "Wind, Solar, and Recycling are the \"never meet your heroes\" of the millennial generation.", "Products that I happily bought for years recently started coming wrapped in plastic. It didn't need it. I didn't ask for it. But I'm stuck with it. \n\nIndividuals can only do so much when every company is working against them and their efforts.", "Would be the same as burning it", "But the lava in the volcano goes to the center of the earth. If we put the trash in it, it will be absorbed by the lava and recycled to the earth.", "Good question... Maybe you can store it deep enough so that it doesn't affect anything, I don't know.", "Why bother leaving the house if you're going to burn your vote on a write in? That's like trying to outsell McDonald's by cooking burgers in your microwave.", "From watching the video as I understood there was also an Icelandic company that had a hand in this and who the reporter tried talking to to figure this out but got turned away. So it's both. I have no involvement with this in even the smallest way since I wasn't there in 2016 but to see how our waste gets piled up like this and the poor warehouse owner who was swindled because some corporate fucks couldn't be asked to do their jobs, it's just horrifying and makes me feel awful.", "Thanks I couldn’t post a link at the time.", "Grocery stores can afford to have dry food spill onto the floor. It's easy cleanup and no one's getting hurt. But someone leaving a pump of bleach on or spilling soap into the middle of an aisle is way too big a risk, no matter how infrequently it happens. Chemicals should not be dispensable in public. It's just a terrible idea.", "If it’s 1% that’s a lot waste from the recycling trucks driving around.", "Elon has never gone to space. \nHe also has no yacht.", "I fail to see how this refutes my point?", "The packaging on meat and cheese is literally the least of the problems. E.g.: https://interactive.carbonbrief.org/what-is-the-climate-impact-of-eating-meat-and-dairy/", "> used in ICE’s.\n\ncan you explain what this is? this is a pretty generic sounding acronym", "They already deal with those spills. It’s a non issue.", "Buy pre-ratty clothing that lasts half as long, and can’t be repaired cause it’s all fast fashion. And then spend precious time after your 8 hour shift, after preparing your own meal and cleaning it up, and cleaning the rests of your living space, and excising for an hour, and then studying to improve yourself and whoops it’s time for bed you get your 8 hours and then I starts again.\n\nAll to avoid a small amount of government regulation.", "As I said, not in the EU.\n\nSorry :(", "It's that time of year when children start questioning things like flying reindeer, Santa, the tooth fairy and recycling. Grown ups know these things are all myths to make us feel better. Invest in high efficiency incineration and place steep taxation on plastic usage at the industry level or perish.", "The funny thing is putting this shit in a warehouse is probably less environmentally damaging than 'recycling' it.", "wow... even if you do the right thing at home and try your best to recycle your waste, someone further down the recycling chain is scamming the whole thing and fucking over the planet anyway...\n\nI guess the only thing that we can do is actually stop using stuff that isn't recyclable in the first place until we find an actual way to break down plastics", "It’s literally called the spoiler effect.", "Check it for yourself! Super curious what you think. I don’t have a real opinion on the matter yet. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/mit-research-andrew-mcafee-says-recycling-is-useless-2019-10%3famp", "Bring back bottle deposits!!! Recycling plastic is bull shit. Stop producing plastic everything.", "There is no way to recycle this stuff. China was just burning it in exchange for cash until environmental regulations became too strict.", "Yep it's sad. I don't buy coffee from fast food joints and just use my contigo mug. Haven't had a bottled water in possibly 7 years. At work the other day I had to toss out 7 action coolers full of bottled water that they bought in the summer for a 2 day shutdown of like 50 people. Even though our water station was in working order. Felt like what's the point anymore.", "Damn. If even the Nordic countries haven’t figured out recycling, then it has all been a scam from day one.", "Recycling was a brilliant scam from the plastics industry", "I'm a big believer in landfills as a resource for future generations. Let's say we come up with a good (energetically) way to turn HDPE into methane, which ends up being a medium for hydrogen transport. What better place to let a robot mine it than a mountain on the edge of town instead of drilling for more methane.", "One of those dudes is not like the other.", "What if I told you that almost all aluminum and most glass gets recycled and therefore there is some nuance to this?", "That would be crazzzyyyyy", "As long as you've got relatively cheap electricity, all metals are recyclable.", "Johnny also repeats himself a lot. Videos could easily be half the length. He needs the Vox editors again.", "They grab the absolutely profitable stuff aluminum and cardboard and then just about everything else is just trash. My city stopped lying and just basically says don't put any plastics they aren't recyclable any longer its only for clean cardboard, glass and aluminum cans.", "Read the caps.\n\nRead the rest\n\nTransparency is needed.", "Does all lava from a volcano go directly to the earth? Anyway I'm pretty sure plastic is going to melt on contact..", "Those two points are not mutually exclusive. I'd argue that in most cases, it's one and the same. YouTube rewards lengthy video creators.", "Aluminum bottles can", "I just throw most of mine in the trash. It ends up there anyway so why add steps? I'm very environmentally minded but recycling is a complete scam.", "If you put it into a landfill it will start to decompose and create methane but as long as it is inside a dry warehouse I doubt there is a lot of decomposing going on.", "Yes, we guess it takes a long time to move that much even in small areas.", "Food scraps? Do they compost them or what?", "I stopped watching Johnny as much after I watched this video https://youtu.be/Dum0bqWfiGw", "But you can repurpose this stuff into bricks, when people say they \"can't recycle\" it just means they arn't paying for the right methood.", "Saw a video of a lady who coordinated recycling in a city, she knew that there was no real solution, just minor actual recycling. She had a big poster on her office wall that read 'Refuse, reduce, reuse' . It stuck with me.", "We're capable of using heat and pressure to turn plastic into an oil analog, it's just power hungry. \n\nIf people / governments really wanted to solve this problem an investment in solar or fusion when the time comes could make it go away", "Let elon use it as a test pay load and yeet it into the sun.", "Those contracts were bid on, and the contracting company failed to evaluate the costs.\n\nThis happens in way more contracts than people realize. Contracts should be cost/performance, not lowest bidder.\n\nI've seen: \n\n* Spacesuit Contract get underbid, then the firm realize they couldn't make a spacesuit...\n* Equipment moving contract get underbid, then someone almost die because the moving company didn't know how to move heavy equipment safely\n* Wiring harness contract get underbid and then require the customer to rebuild the harnesses upon delivery\n* Training get severely underbid, then the contractor freaked when they suddenly realized the training facility was owned by the previous contractor\n\nAll of this could have been solved by someone evaluating PERFORMANCE and capability to meet requirements. But noooooo, \"LOWEST BIDDER, VETERAN-WOMAN-MINORITY--OWNED (on paper only), etc\".\n\nIt's rampant everywhere, big companies, little companies, and especially governments.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nAnd it's people like me they hire to resolve these things. Then they freak when I tell them I can't just make a paperwork fix or simply sign-off on equipment or services that do not meet the contract requirements.", "Actually the 1 or 2 are the (usually) non-recyclable ones. They copied the triangle to confuse people. The triangle with the arrows and no number means recyclable.", "We have the same viewing habits. I really like Johnny and I think for the most part he researches well. But he has a lot of fluff that is not researched at all and completely wrong, which than makes you question everything. I think that’s the new challenge of these half creator/journalists because they play both sides.", "Divide in to 2 batches, send it to Cocacola and Nestlé headquarters as a Christmas gift \n\nThey will definitely go to court on this but the whole mess would make a beautiful recycling truths awareness news story as well as a popcorn eating opportunity", "I recently stopped watching him as well, mainly because of his Afghanistan video.\n\nI think that without the Vox Team he ends up in rabbit holes where he extrapolates his conversations and experiences over too wide of a scope. His Afghanistan video was he talking to a single Afghan he knew and using what he said to make country wide assumptions, which is honestly really poor journalism/content creation. \n\nYou could say the same about the world economic forum content, where he takes a narrative from one source and then doesn't fully look into it and extrapolates that viewpoint again on the entire country.", "Recycling has become a scam.", "irl minecraft?", "Another story came out a few days ago about how [we're also illegally sending waste to Romania to be dumped.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-59557493)", "I've been able to reduce meat and fruit plastic by shopping at farmers markets and butchers. But not everyone has access to those resources so it'd be nice if grocery stores started too.", "Depends entirely on how bad the sorting was done before it became a bale. Looking at that I'd say that any semi modern plastic recycler could sort that and turn it into a profit \n\nIf it's even remotely clean in regards to material streams, then it's super easy to recycle. There's few materials that are as easy to recycle as plastic, as long as it wasn't used in some of the retarded ways product designers come up with, or made unrecycleable by the consumer trying to be helpful", "Those policies can be overturned", "Imagine blaming the consumer for \"recylcing wrong\" instead of focusing on corporations. Actually got baited by propaganda.", "Recycling is a joke. Its the WORST form of conservation. It creates it's own waste and uses huge amounts of energy and resources.\n\nRecycling is one step above throwing it on the ground.\n\nRe-using the same material is much, much more conservative than recycling.\n\nBut not creating that plastic in the first place is magnitudes greater than having to deal with the waste at all.\n\nReduce. Reuse. Recycle.\n\nIn that order", "the problem is not the voting, the problem is the rampant capitalism making unethical decisions seem like a \"WIN WIN\" situation\n\nif you let your workers piss into bottles instead of letting them go to a toilett and that makes you the second richest human on the planet, somehting is gone veeeeery wrong\n\nif you can get ahead in a nation by nation competition for doing good for the enviroment and you bury your plastic in the ground or let your oil spill into the ocean, and you win by doing that, something is gone very wrong\n\nMONKEY SEE MONEY? MONKEY TAKE MONEY AND BE HAPPY", "Elon has a LOT of faults. But, his companies are all eco focused and he has not been to space yet.", "Fuck Iceland and their superiority complex. They’re no better than any country", "Pretty much anything that isnt metal gets handled this way", "Turns out that plastic isn't very easy to recycle. Not only is there a whole plethora of different kinds of plastics that can't necessarily be intermixed with each other, but the results are often just not as good as simply using freshly made plastic. For this reason a lot of \"recycled\" plastic ends up in landfill or burned in power/heating plants. Especially if it's just general unsorted plastic trash. Few are willing to spend hours sifting through a sea of plastic trash to sort the usable stuff from the garbage.", "we even pay for it.\n\n&#x200B;\n\na lot of i is energy recycling though which mostly just mean that we burn it for heat", "This is part of the hopelessness I feel towards the system. If I boycotted every company that has done or is doing something evil, I would have no possessions and I would starve to death. I try to avoid the biggest, evilest ones I can remember, but I'm kidding myself if I think I'm not funding evil just to get by.", "Is some of this in English or do I secretly kinda understand Swedish?", "I don’t think they’re talking about just recycling but also simply _re-using_. You can re-use a glass bottle for thousands of years if you’re careful.", "To be fair if they can fit it into one warehouse they're still doing ok.", "Nowadays with modern recycling methods the main reason for downcycling is retarded work by product designers. And often times downgraded means burned.\n\nWhen you mix plastic and non plastic in one product/packaging it will be downgraded (burned). If you mix several plastics together it will be downgraded.\n\nA company switched from a full plastic packaging to a paper package with a tiny plastic window to show the product? Congratulations, the packaging just turned into something that won't be recycled.\n\nA designer decided that a glass drinks bottle needs a pink plastic sleeve to be trendy? That entire bottle just fell out of the recycling system.", "So then everywhere it's a scam and a hashtag trend ?", "So… Tupperware.", "You should definitely do this if it makes you feel better, because that's about all it accomplishes. It's going to take massive, top-down changes to solve or even mitigate plastic pollution. A 1% reduction doesn't really help anything.", "So. The modern American landfill is an environmentally friendly operation. They have numerous safety measures that keep them from contaminating the ground and surrounding areas, and then they're filled up they vacuum seal them, pave over them, and build parks on top of them.\n\nIt's when it gets shipped of to places like China (that just throw it in the ocean) that things get bad.", "Yeah fuck unions. Legit scum of the earth.", "LOL you should see realLifeLore by the same guy. even SLOWER paced than wendover Porductions. unwatchable", "In the movie you see windmills built on piles of trash implying that humanity waited too long to try and do anything to save the planet.", "That's not true.\n\nWhen idiots decide to mix seven different plastics into a single cling wrap, then yes, there's no way outside of chemical recycling or burning to do anything productive with it, but as long as the material remains pure, and the material stream remains somewhat pure, recycling plastics is ridiculously easy, and in the case of some plastics (PET, HDPE etc) insanely profitable and a massively growing market.\n\nAnd I don't mean after it was shipped to a foreign land. No PET from Europe even leaves the continent anymore, nowadays it gets imported into Europe.\n\nFailure to recycle is a failure by the state to give the consumer a way to recycle and the recycling industry a reason to exist and thrive.", "Plastic sheds, basically, and the fibers degrade over long term exposure to sunlight.", "No one actually says that. The truth behind that statement was years of research to pass the blame onto the consumer. You will never change things, and expecting individuals to do anything when laws are written to the opposite is a fallacy. What you believe is propaganda created by the oil lobby in the 60’s. Just learn about leaded gasoline. Profits over people is at Giant heart of capitalism.", "I actually don't want to harm any person.\n\nBuildings aren't people. Banks, pipelines, police precincts. Not one of those things is sentient and can feel, they are all symbols of a broken system that is destroying our earth and taking away personal freedoms in the process.", "Be nice to credit unions", "The world is already burning, out of control. You want it to stop, yes? Maybe a controlled burn of the dead brush is necessary so we can start anew?", "\n>CinemaSins went from summarizing a movie's sins in 5 minutes to 10 minutes and now >20 minutes. Its now reduced to comments like \"Who drinks orange juice after dinner?\" +1 sin.\n\nThe thing that infuriates me about them is a lot of their sins are explained elsewhere in the movie! And then they just sin the explanation for no real reason or they just ignore it. I had to stop watching them.\n\nCinemaWins, on the other hand, is pretty cool from what I've seen of them. (I'm not an avid watcher, but I do go looking for their stuff from time to time.)", "Yeah, I saw this happen in real time at one of my jobs. One day we were getting paid for our bales and literally one day suddenly we have to pay to have them removed because China said they are done taking it.", "Want to replace the letters, remove all context, and see how long your comment lasts? I very intentionally avoid calling for things myself, instead saying that I can't call for certain things myself, to try to skirt the rules of most subs.", "What impact do you expect to make other than you feel better about your choices?", "aluminium cans uses plastic linings", "As long as you're not at 100% low co2 energy production you might as well burn plastic waste instead of coal or gas.", "Schmothing", "You think you have choice but it’s an illusion. You’re still choosing between products.", "energy recycling its called its used to heat homes in many cities.\n\nmainly used on non recyclable plastics and other burnable trash and also used with good filthers to keep containmants form escaping into the air", "Well, see, there's Greenland, right. And they have houses, right? And the houses in Greenland have gases that come from them. Mostly the smoke from the chimney in the cold parts of the year.", "Omg that is depressing", "4 years of french and i cant even ask where the bathroom is", "I think it's pretty safe to say consuming less plastic is good, my wording is casual because we're just talking on the internet haha. I can prove that meat packaged at the butcher uses less plastic than meat packaged for the grocery shelf but I didn't think I would have to.\n\nedit: I don't think we're switching to paper so much as incentivizing reusing bags, a lot of stores charge for bags now.", "Hypocrites shame on u Iceland", "It's really not all China's fault. It has more to do with large corporations. Here's a breakdown of Americas plastics recycling scam: \n\n[Corporate America Lied To You About Plastics Recycling](https://youtu.be/lsybsBhenOo)", "Heads up bucko, all powerplants that burn gas coal or whatever emit nox. So whether you're burning plastic or gas or coal it's all the same in the end, at least by burning plastic you're getting rid of the plastic.", "agreed. I have a big problem with these kinds of stories because they're rarely from a balanced or enlightened perspective. Anyone paying attention has always known that recycling (mostly referring to plastics) is not an efficient process, but it doesn't mean that it's all a waste of time and money. And there are an endless stream of redditors ready to pile on with their half baked opinions.", "Cost and quantity of fossil fuel / other energy needed for transport, storing, transformation, employee transit, etc. I never found any study about the total environmental cost of recycling / composting in my area, the government/private workers making big bucks probably don't want us to know...", "Ouch. \n\nIs the UK the US of Europe or is the US the UK of the Americas?", "You're just giving carte blanche for people to consume all they want guilt free", "Yup, China realised the short term profits aren't worth the long term losses due to enviromental and health complications. \n\n\nGood for them tbh", "It’s getting hard to do that. Recently I wanted some Iced Tea so I ordered Snapple because it used to come in a glass bottle. \n\nIt’s in plastic now. Thick plastic to imitate glass too.", "Dioxins. Cancer. Birth defects.\n\nThe unscrupulous ship and burn it in southeast Asia", "Fuckin what?? Lmao you have what rights you have thanks to unions.", "Yes holy shit I thought I was high or something but yeah, I just can't watch his videos", "Enespa.com", "Aluminum actually gets recycled because it's profitable. Glass is hit or miss. Plastic is almost never actually recycled.", "On the contrary, I'm telling people that not only can they not consume all they want, they can't consume slightly less than that and get away with it either. People need to push for massive, restrictive legislation on plastics in every way they can. Climate and pollution action need to be your primary issues in every election.\n\nBut I'm also saying that by all means, you can also boycott straws if it makes you feel better.", "Wow it's like the goal should be to not burn any of those.", "No you fool, soylent green is people!!", "Yup! I worked a job that did the exact same thing, made a huge deal about separating garbage from recycling and what to do with bottles and such. They even asked people to rinse out the bottles!\n\nIt all went into the trash compactor out back. There was no separate recycling, it all went right into the compactor.", "I also can't stand government programs. My local taxes were raised for an infrastructure project, but was cancelled without a tax reduction.\n\nI only found out much later by investigating myself (the local government never explained why the project was cancelled) that every bank backed out of the deal specifically because everyone running the project was related, and one of them did some fraud in the past. \n\nFunny thing is the largest infrastructure contractor (within 200 miles) is based right outside the city, but the city had chosen to do it all themselves (no-bid) with help from some random no-named company owned by, you guessed it, some government official's brother.", "No .... a lot of our trash gets shipped abroad.\n\nThere are like dozens of videos where you can see landfills in asia with german plastic trash", "You went on a tangent about ash production, when it’s literally a by product of burning trash. All kinds of trash, so it’s really irrelevant in your argument regarding burning plastic as all trash burned generates ash. \n\nYou dont seem to understand how a waste to energy plant operates. If you’d like to know I’d be happy to try to answer your questions as I work in the industry.", "Pardon me, I just selected some well-known kajillionaires that most people (including myself) would know about\n\nEdit: The Elon apologist below only posts in Tesla and Elon circlejerks lmfao", "Where did I say you said you shouldn't recycle metals? My whole point now is that you saying we should recycle metals has no bearing on whether burning plastic is a good thing.\n\nSlow decomposition of the materials is preferable to high concentrations of toxins just sitting there and waiting to spill. Space for landfills is not as big a problem as releasing even more CO2 while we're in a climate disaster.", "\"you're just\" \n\n\nNope, I mean, that may be a side effect for some people but what he's doing is saying yes reducing is a good idea but it's a drop in the ocean compared to the actual problems. \n\n\nI work in manufacturing with polyester/epoxy resins and fiberglass and you'd be shocked at the amount of waste our relatively small factory produces. They make more waste in a week than I do in a year and that's one single factory not even running at full capacity, more like 50% most of the time.", "I always knew that recycling is bullshit. I'm glad I never bothered with it.", "Glass>Can>Fountain>Plastic bottle", "China may not be a problem in this particular case - Sweden has been, and presented itself as, the model for plastic recycling. \n\nIts domestic recycling industry is purported to do so well that it ran out of domestic waste and now has to import it - and even now new recycling plants are coming online. One of these clients was obviously Iceland. \n\nSo the question is actually bigger than 'we can't afford to send it to Chine anymore'.", "Wow it's like you're living in a utopia and not the real world.", "Also, not everyone can afford to do that. Unless it's a producers-only or heavily skewed towards producers, lots of farmers markets I've been to are basically shit like overpriced, \"artisanal\" honey or some shit.", "I like the ad fluff from Ryan George as well", "Not long ago Philippines gov forced either Canadian or British Columbia gov to pick up a huge load of shipping containers full of recycling. I don't know how that ended.", "Soylent green is what’s served on the spaceship that Wall-e works on.", "The idea is that the oil that made the plastic started out buried under the earth, so we should put the plastic back under the earth because as long as it doesn't leak out into the rest of the environment, it's basically a form of carbon capture.\n\nPlastic is oil we didn't burn, so instead of putting all that carbon in the air by burning it, we could just store the carbon as plastic in the ground.\n\nIt's not perfect, but right now our main problem is carbon in the air, microplastics in the water sucks, but it won't destroy ecosystems the way climate change will.", "Exactly. I stopped watching him after his video on how most of Canada lives close to the US- Canada border. The main message was just under a minute long, but he wasted several more minutes talking about his trip to Canada to meet his friends, how lockdown affected his trip, random shots of him jumping on logs, his wife and friends eating lunch etc. Intermittently, he kept on talking about the border to keep people engaged. Dude, it's cool you did that, but don't waste my time and bait me into watching your videos. We are not idiots to not know what you are doing...", "I love how everyone's solution is always \"trust the government\" then they realize the government isn't trustworthy.", "If all disposable plastic had to be hdpe we absolutely could do that. I dont know if it would be good in the long run though.", "onto the... chinese manufacturers.... lol?", "I just watch pitch meetings and hishe and honest trailers now.", "Remember when Reddit put Iceland on a pedestal of being this idealistic country that solves every problem with ease and is all green and environmentally friendly? Turns out they're just like all the others, they just advertise themselves as 'progressive'.", "In the long run the solution is the considerable reduction of single use non-biodegradable polymer products, but we still need to sort out something to do with what's here.", "> pollutes more than it helps\n\nIt's important to be clear here.\n\nIt pollutes differently. More CO² is obviously not great, but more landfill is also not great. If all things were equal, CO² has a shorter natural half-life than plastic in a landfill.", "Ship them back to who manufacture the drinks.", "Yes.", "Can't recommend Climate Town enough", "I stopped recycling. \n\nI put everything in one bag of trash and send it away.", "There is a whole movie about it!", "Yeah and we owe space travel to fucking Russia. God reddit is a shit hole of incompetence.", "We really shouldn't be trying to recycle plastic.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/\\_riGg2BW8Jw", "Tell me you only read the headline without actually telling me you only read the headline.", "Idiocracy is my favourite film and has been for years. Very well made film.", "So are blanket statements like yours.", "There's a pretty big difference between just uncontrollably burning something in open air and incinerating it in a controlled way and making sure you're not releasing any toxic gases. I feel like \"incinerate\" implies more controlled circumstances. But obviously you get CO2 emissions either way.", "> when possible\n\nWhen is this actually possible?", "Yea let's start hauling around tractor trailers full of 105 pounds of styrofoam.", "That would be reuse, different R", "But it can change the use of logos intended to mislead the consumer. Not a difficult concept in the least, even if some of us are having trouble.", "Plastic has a tendency to break down into microscopic pieces that get into literally everything. Water, soil, plants, animals. Basically the entire feeding chain gets affected. And unlike glass (i.e. silicon, i.e. sand) pieces, which is harmless, plastic fucks up things along the way, like being a source of cancers for instance.", "And Nevada is mostly empty so it'll only be a problem in a couple decades when the land wars for people to live inland because the costal cities with either be destroyed or claimed by the opposing nation.", "Thats why I said something. People like to say stuff about people they think they know about but clearly they don't. Elon might be super rich, sure. But he also revolutionized the space and transportation industry and for the better. He has dedicated his life to making humanity better. Insane wealth just happened to be a by product.", "Sure, change it to something less misleading. Then people won't even even recycle at all.\n\nReddit is usually so quick to rally against these \"causes\" but lose sight of the big picture. I'd rather people see plastic 6 or 4 and think it's recyclable than just not recycle anything, even 1 or 2", "In his first video after leaving vox, Johnny talked about how joss helped him to cut down his videos when he was there. It’s become abundantly clear that he never picked up on that skill set, because his videos are twice as long as they need to be.", "Buy tailor made, buy used clothes, don't buy as much clothes.\nLearn to sew so you can repair clothes.\n\nBuy from countries that produce ethically clothing\n\nJust a few basic things", "Yay....5 year old news on the front page... go go Reddit", "Crush that shit into big Lego blocks and build houses.", "Some plastic is recyclable, we don't want excess microplastics, so not many methods work.\nThe variety of plastics and the ability to recognize the types is lost on the commercial- and the consumer front.", "Recyling price should be included In the purchase price so ppl stopped whining its uneconomical to recycle.", "We are powerless to stop it IMO", "Nobody ever said that the cycle is moving very fast.", "It’s called a tariff. They’re not anything new. Mostly it’s coke, Pepsi, and nestle.", "So where are all the plastic pallets, lumber, cabinets?", "The information is good but the way he talks. Is. Really annoying.\n\nSingle-word sentences suck.", "Buy one of the hundreds of options for clothes that don’t produce waste? Like going to an actual store and taking it off the rack?", "sadly burning plastic is the best thing we can currently do with it most of the time. that is why reduce and reuse comes first.", "He does this on purpose, I’ve heard. To have people start arguments in the comments section and drive up engagement.", "Try Notjustbikes. More of an urbanistic approach and how cities are built, but there's almost 0 fluff apart from a few select jokes here and there. Very good content, and opens your eyes on how cities are designed.", "Yeah, waste to energy is much better than dumping it in the oceans. In that vein, even landfills are not as terrible as most people seem to think they are. If it's built in a geologically appropriate location, and used/maintained properly, the contents stay locked up for perhaps millions of years, much the same way that oil and coal currently sits in the ground.", "this is why i dont recycle", "I bought a new jacket yesterday. It wasn't wrapped at all.", "Who are \"they\"?\n\nThe Swedish municipalizes recycling association is very open with how the waste is handled and that half of all household waste is used for energy recovery.", "You'd rather the entire system were full of products that people have purchased because they believe they're recyclable when they're not, AND that what limited waste management resources that exist are spent separating pure trash from actually recyclable materials?\n\nBig picture?! I don't think you're even up to stamp collecting here...", "In this case, the story is that it's not \"stored\". The Swedish \"recycling\" company filled the warehouse with the plastic bales, sold the warehouse cheap to some dude with a promise of \"we'll empty it later\" and then ghosted them. More importantly, the company was being paid \"to recycle\" not to store the plastic. This is just about as far is it can get from \"storing responsibly\". This is both corporate fraud of Icelandic taxpayer money and a scam to the people who bought the warehouse.", "If you saw the “recycling bin” at my apartment complex you’d understand why.", "isn't recycling plastic a scam? it will never make economic sense.", "ready to be recycled", "oh dude i like Johnny but i know exactly what you're talking about. as soon as i notice something like that on a youtube channel i just can't watch anymore because it bothers me\n\nthat car/motorsports channel donut media is the worst offender of all. great content, interesting videos and informed people talking, but too much silly bullshit injected into the video literally every 5 seconds. like you said i get why they have to do it, but i just can't take it.", "Wouldn't stop me to do the right thing.", "Dude what are you trying to defend? Corporations would hire 8 year olds for their factory lines and work you 16 hours a day, 7 days a week if they could.", "companies are out to make money, and placate the masses with lies about recycling...recycling costs money, not good for the bottom line.", ">Move the burden on to the manufacturers\n\nNo, this burden will be moved to the people buying the plastic shit in the store.", "Which volcano are we going to ship all of the plastic to? Does NYC ship 100k tons of plastic by train? Bus? Truck? Ship? How do we get it up the volcano? Who is the person who is going to drop it into said volcano? How do we make a machine to drop it into said volcano if lava melts everything?", "Absolutely it will. And once that burden becomes too much to bear then people will stop buying the plastic products. When that occurs the manufacturers will stop making them and shift to products their consumers will still buy.", "Common knowledge. What is still widely debated is the order of events", "I mean, sounds like Carbon Sequestration to me. I'm no expert though.", "Recycling isn't flawed, but plastic isn't profitably recyclable.", "Forced metrics are hilariously false when the truth comes out. Always backfires.", "Not a joke. We currently don't have a functional space elevator. Once we have those technologies to move heavy materials into orbit relatively cheaply, it may be an option for some of our solid waste issues that we just can't seem to figure out PlanetSide", "Wow its like were living in a climate catastrophe and should be trying to avoid any and all CO2 emissions possible.", "Wall-e didnt work on a space ship. Your other point could be correct though", ">John Oliver is very formulaic. Say a couple of very serious, deep lines. Follow up with a silly impression. Rinse, repeat.\n\nDon't forget the \"shocking\" vulgar comment with little to no connection to the current topic. \"I'd fuck that pig!\"", "This is why I was always good at essay questions in school. Everyone else would groan, but I was happy. You didn't need to be right on the money with the answer, you just needed to work your way around the general idea, and the teacher would always figure you understood it and give you an A.\n\nI'd probably be a good YouTube content creator. I could be a inflooncer.", "I'm not sure if you have seen a volcano before, but lava doesn't cover the entire thing. It's like a upside down ice cream cone that is partially filled with chocolate. The chocolate is the lava in my analogy. You only need to get it to the rim of the cone, then give it a push. 🍦. \n\nYou would make a large conveyer belt to get it to the top. It would be powered by geo-thermal steam engines (zero carbon footprint). \n\nEach city would ship their garbage to their regional volcano. If there is none nearby, the city would need to relocate. I mean there is obviously some logistics that would need to be ironed out.", "Ok let me spell it out for you, we're going to burn shit to make energy:\n\nDo we:\n\nA. Burn trash so that it can't pollute anything else\n\nB. Burn coal because...", "nope, not at all. This is a story of fraud and corruption. The Icelandic government hired a company who faked their numbers, pretended to recycle and just left it in a warehouse then sold it to a small business (telling them they'd remove the plastic and the family would use the warehouse as a car scrap yard, except they never removed it).", "My municipality recycles my plastic properly because they say they do and they'd never lie", "Well the whole recycling model got turned upside down when china stopped being the world's recycling center. The ripples of that market change aren't even close to being dealt with", "Came across [this encouraging article](https://cen.acs.org/environment/recycling/years-dabbling-Japan-serious-plastics/99/i38) on new plastic recycling techniques being trialed in Japan. They like everyone else used to ship them to China, but since that was cut off, perhaps the economics will work out better for the methods that were seen before as too expensive.", "Its not 5 year old news, maybe I worded the title badly. I was trying to say the waste stored in that warehouse is from the 2016 year. Its only recently been found/bought to peoples attention.", "Good. Thats what we need!", "We used a diaper composting service as far back as 2008 for our first kids diapers in the bay area. They did drop off and pick up once a week.", "Hurrr I'll go on strike and then act surprised when my company replaces me.\n\nshocked pikachu face", "Until a few elections ago, I never realized that to be counted as a write-in candidate, you still have to register to get put on the list for accepted write-in candidates. Also, if you ever want to laugh during an election, go online and see what the write-in options are 😂", "I wish it was easier to check on a youtuber's credentials to be commenting on any given topic, writing credits, sponsorship, etc. It's great that anyone can youtube but I really don't like being taught about serious matters by an invisible teacher.", "To add to this.. any grocery with a butcher/fish/meat counter will wrap your meat in sheets of paper if you want them to. That's how meat had been packaged for a looong time before plastic, and it works great. So, if you don't want the Styrofoam tray wrapped in cello just ask them to cut/grind something for you at the counter!", "There are way more ways to manufacture aluminum cleanly. Since it needs electricity we have all electricity methods at our disposal. Oddly Iceland is the world leader here as they produce lots of the worlds aluminum using geothermal electricity.", "Legislation still won't do shit when countries literally bury the evidence", "I think this is a great choice for people who don’t want children. People who don’t want children probably shouldn’t have children, so good on you.", "It can, it's just that our personal impact alone won't solve the climate crisis.", "alot of the plastic in the UK is shipped and dumped in Africa rather than being recycled. There was a report in panorama about it. The reporter followed the trash all the way there.", "Cool man. Im really glad im talking to someone who doesn't understand that you can incrementally scale down things and that saying we shouldn't be doing something doesn't imply that I think we can magically turn it all off. \n\nSo. Let me spell it out for you since you think you're the smartest person in the room.\n\nThe fact that we are burning the material right now does not mean that a system where less is burned is impossible and that we shouldn't be taking steps to go there. We can reduce plastic production. We can invest in stopgap energy sources while we transition to clean energy. We can separate our trash like other countries do to lessen impacts of waste. We can do a million things and your inability to view the entire process when having a discussion is something I should've realized earlier.", "Don’t we (as humans) rock at recycling metals, and pretty much everything else is somewhere between wishful thinking and an outright fraud?", "Just a dumbass troll. Or a republican. Same thing", "A dirty little secret is that 80% of all recycling doesn't get recycled it end up in the trash. But at least you feel good doing it.", "You mean to tell me this mythical recycling has been a scam all this time", "It's not just Iceland, recycling programs around the entire developed world are horribly inefficient and barely recycle any of the plastics they get.", "I think the problem is that only certain types of plastic can be recycled at present, and only so much of these. A lot was sent to China without really considering what would happen to it afterwards, and instead of being recycled, much of it just got dumped into landfills, burned, or chucked somewhere. \n\nElectronic components are a similar issue, with many old circuit boards melted down to get at the precious metals, causing pollution from all kinds of horrible compounds.\n\nEven if we cannot actually reuse/repurpose many kinds of plastic right now, recycling is not a bad thing - while it's better to try and reduce use of things like packaging, for the stuff we do use it's preferable to at least have it in once place so as we do figure out what to do with it, and recycling/decomposition technology develops, it's easier to deal with.", "I mean, If you have that attitude any amount of effort will make you unwilling. \n\nSo for you, step one is a serious self reflection about you, your choices and the impact they have on yhe environment. \n\nNo one will just do this for you. If the environment is important to you, then yes - those are the things you need to do. \n\nIve found many nice things at consignment, many with the tags still on. Go to a nice town and shop to find higher name brands. Learning to sew is bettering yourself. Knitting is relaxing and could help you cope with some of the anxiety you have.\n\nBeing a responsible consumer is not easy. If it were, the market would already be established that way. \n\nAs it is, its literally designed to cater to people like yourself unwilling to sacrifice convenience for a environmentally sound future.", "Maybe he’s talking about police unions", "... would you want IV tubing that has been used on other sick people before?", "Recycling is a massive con", "Plastic isn’t worth it, yet. However collecting it and storing it safely is worth it. Think of it as stock piling it for when the value becomes worth it. \n\nWe’re not going to be pulling oil from the ground forever to make virgin plastic. So even dropping it in a landfill for retrieval later is worth it.", "This is why all my plastic goes in the garbage. Better to just put it back in the ground where it came from.", "Elements can be recycled. Hydrocarbons, not so much.", "They tried to stop \"single use\" plastic bags here by banning them but all that did was cause manufacturers to make the bags thicker with even more plastic and shops to start charging 10 cents for them. Now they are producing more waste because they make thicker bags that get no more use than the \"single use\" bags.", "Ours doesn’t accept glass…..GLASS!!", "Johnny Harris also sold his journalistic integrity:\n[video.](https://youtu.be/Dum0bqWfiGw)", "And then after that they’ll sit in a landfill for a couple hundred years", "Most microplastics from tire wear and laundry lint.", "I like how Oliver's segments end, usually, and some of the jokes are good, but yeah often the jokes are annoying.\n\nSurprised somebody hasn't made edits of his segments to be serious pieces, because they ARE educational and thorough.", "If it could be solved in a more environmental friendly way, even if it means a slightly less chase of survival, then yes", "Glass is not more environmentally friendly. It uses considerably more fuel to produce and transport and recycle or reuse commercially.", "Better than oxides and botulism.", "Yeah those k-cups are pretty bad but other convenient food packaging is only wasteful because places won't let you reuse it. Like I can't take the plastic container my potato salad came in back to the deli and have them put my second purchase in it because of health and safety codes.", "Yeah... Post-consumer plastic is generally not recyclable, and never had been.", "\nYou are carrying water for the people destroying the environment by hoisting the responsibility on the individual.", "Gavin Newsom was the Mayor, so a little egg but no damage, Republic is still handling the garbage. So business as usual.", "It will still release all the carbon dioxide into the air. Plus the expense of shipping it all there.", "Plastic generally cannot be recycled. When you heat it, it’s ruined.\nSo many people recycle plastics when they literally just go to the landfill.\nSucks", "You can't store acidic foods in aluminum without a liner. Most liners contain PCBs which can pose environmental and health issues.", "Would love to see more stories from that universe, it'd be interesting to explore the concept a bit more.", "False.* (In the context of western developed nations.)\n\n> It is estimated that 81% of ocean plastics come from Asian rivers. The Philippines alone contribute around one-third of the global total.\n\nhttps://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics", "Including Keebler and Kashi. Maybe just all the Ks?", "Icelandic person here. I've never been told that our recycling bin actually go to recycling. We know that we just send to to Sweden or Norway so they can burn it for energy. It's just as harmful as burning oil but it's less harmful than letting it end up in the ocean or leeching into a landfill. Having it end up in a warehouse is rather expected.", "Thank you for clarifying even more! It is important to know.", "I think wendover productions videos are longer on average by like 5 minutes so Idk if that's quite true.", "People generally shorten \"practical options\" to \"options\" which confuses people like you.", "Yard-a-pult!", "Most of mine gets recycled because it's water bottles, which are easy to recycle and are in high demand here.", "I'm hearing lately that plastic is largely not worth recycling, that such programs are just corporate PR, design to put off the day when plastic waste will have to be dealt with. Methinks that day is near.", "So no PCs, No cars, no houses, ect...", "They're not just recycling it they're burning it for energy, so not as good as it sounds", "Plastic recycling is one of the biggest scams on earth. Almost no plastic is actually recycled. Only a few kinds even can be and we don't even really recycle THAT. It could be used eternally but instead we use it once and then turn it into carpet which gets thrown in an landfill. Plastic recycling was invented by the plastics industry to SELL MORE PLASTIC. Glass was already 100% recycled. We never needed plastic bottles and packaging but the plastic industry green washed it making people think it was okay because it was \"recycled\". The BEST of the recycling was fleece. But now we know that washing fleece is how you flood our oceans with microplastics and poisons our food supply. \n\nIt is all a scam.", "It is completely pointless. Here's the thing: paper and plastic are not infinitely recycleable. They can be resused once, maybe twice at best under ideal conditions. So even if you recycled 100% of it once, and you are still throwing the same amount away, the exact same amount of new raw materials is being consumed in the end.", "Get ready to be angry.", "it's revolting yet good to see somebody in the world is still doing good old journalism.", "My state has bottle deposits for plastic bottles but I don't see how you think that is a solution to recycling not being recycled by recyclers.", "Uh huh, did you read the article or did you just knee jerk react first?", "Cost is the entire causative agent.", "The best way to fight Kellogg is to never eat that morning trash and masterbate until the end of your life .", "Yeah I think only about 10% is actually recycled.", "And the whole recycling thing is expensive because manufacturers have shirked the responsibility onto the consumer instead of dealing with it at the manufacturing stage.\n\nAlso, a company I worked at about 10 years ago had a dumpster for garbage, and a dumpster for recycling. One truck always came and picked up both, once a week.", "People only say that because the plastics industry spent so much money lying about it to make people believe it was true: https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g?t=176", "Haven't you seen the last IPCC report? The front is projected to fall off by 2050.", "The government contracting a shitty company to do it sounds more like the work of a \"private enterprise\" supporting faction.", "Putting it in magma is just burning it with lots of extra steps for no practical gain.\n\nUnless you can somehow dump it really deep, which I highly doubt plastics have the density to sink in magma.", "Promoting the recycling of plastic has done more harm than good. It has lead to a complacency which allows us to ignore a very serious problem that won't disappear without effort. Biodegradable plastics could have been common by now, but because we \"recycle\" plastic bottles, the problem is masked.", "Sorry, but the US Green Party has always been nothing but a way to shift votes away from the Democratic Party.", "> It's \"reduce, reuse, recycle.\" The best way to mitigate plastic waste is to reduce consumption because that lowers demand. Choose paper, metal, or glass over single use plastics with resin indintifiers 3 and up when possible.\n\nYou already \"reduce\" when you choose plastic because you need more paper, glass or metal for the same purpose.", "What if you encased it in boxes made from lava and added something to make it more dense, so it sank to the center of the earth?", "I'm glad I'm talking to someone who doesn't understand that we live in the world we live in and not some utopia where all energy produced generates no CO2.", "Its cheaper to make new with our dwindling resource supply then to recycle it as depressing as that is", "For decades these fucking idiots harassed regular people about recycling, wasting our time & taking any opportunity to insult us. WELL IT WAS ALL A SCAM. I WANT AN APOLOGY.", "They do here, bit it's a different bin. We have 4. One for some recycling, one for glass bottles, one for compost, and one for everything else", "The logistics of this is covered in responses elsewhere in this thread.", "That would be unacceptable to society as a whole, and patients would rightfully sue when they contracted HIV, or similar avoidable outcome, from used plastics.", "This is why nobody has gone to the good place in like 1000 years man", "They're burning stuff that would end up in a landfill and create more greenhouse gases, so garbage incineration definitely helps out short and long term energy needs when done properly", "Aluminum can be 100% recycled to. 1 can makes 1 can", "Understandable", "Waste to energy is amazing compared to waste to ocean", "Jail, recycling and garbage shouldn't even have the word \"profitable\" in it. Make them all public works like fuck", "My area has different trucks but I question how much gets recycled because to recycle things they have to be clean and those big recycling bins usually have garbage mixed in with them.", "I don’t disagree. I helped put in a pilot methane recovery system in Atlanta back in the early 80’s. The difference between how they were run then and now is amazing.", "Contracting a company to do something that isn't meant to be profitable is a questionable plan from the start.", "It likely doesn’t.", "Bottles are the most recyclable.", "It's not always pointless. It depends on you local recycling program.", "slaps roof of desert this baby can hold so much trash even your mom", "All the more reason to stop watching. That's scummy as hell.", "I don't know. If they decide your recyling bin has too much garbage in it they won't take it, or they will lock the bin temporarily as punishment.", "Even better - stop cooking at home and eat at the cafe which buys in bulk, much less packaging", "So I'm confused as to what our local trash company gains by having a whole fleet of strictly \"recycle\" collection trucks that operate separately than the garbage trucks. Same with the green bin (yard clippings) collection trucks. On trash day we have three bins out and three different trucks from the same company come and pick them up. Makes no sense if two of those trucks are taking the garbage/recycle to the same dump. Payroll, cost of vehicles, cost of maintenance, etc, seem to make that pretty pointless.", "Plastic can not be recycled.", "As someone who likes SSBBW, count me in.", "It's just unfortunate that landfills are so vilified.", "It explodes violently.. we tried this", "Well it's good to know the truth now. And at least it's all in one place. Soon maybe there will be a better way to recycle it.", "moderately unrelated note, my parents actually talked with the dude from Reykjavik grapevine when they went to see the volcano earlier this year. really cool guy. they met him by complete accident at a staging area to a trail that led up the mountain", "Could they call it \"incinerable waste\" or something?", "Lava just becomes some type of stone, depending on what the constituent material is.\n\nCore dumping is still well into scifi territory. It might be possible in the future with more material science, but for now there's no way for us to get the plastics deep into magma rather than just having it burn off on the surface.\n\nA thought just occurred to me, one possible way would be to dig below a magma flow, fill the area with plastic, and then break whatever barrier remains to have the magma envelope the plastic. But this would still require insane feats of engineering to achieve. The cost would be astronomical.", "That's only a line fed by the ruling class to keep the stupid working poor from realizing who is really killing everyone", "The more you know about the situation, the more powerless you realize we are.", "Ah yes, the worlds beaches are running out of suitable sand for glass and concrete. So obviously fuck recycling it.", "Which is like… a thousandth of a regular bottle or something when it comes to plastic use.", "Companies are shit man. Ironically while we outnumber them we have our hands tied. So reuse where you can reduce where possible and hope some of your recycling isn't landfilled", "Did these guys every do anything else that's this big a cult classic?", ">It's up to major companies to make the biggest impact, not consumers. \n\nThat's the real \"scam\" everyone seems to keep missing when they mention how recycling is a scam in America. One of the biggest point of what those plastic companies were trying to do was shift the blame away from themselves and onto consumers. Recycling is still possible and does happen in the US. It just hasn't been the most efficient process, and a lot of it has still gone to the trash heap in recent years when China stopped taking it anymore.", "It would be cheaper than the current alternative, launching it into the sun.", "Lol same here! I wish we’d bring back getting “paid” to return our coke/soda bottles. That’s how I got my extra money to buy my candy cigarettes as a wholesome child.", "STOP BUYING PLASTIC IF YOU CAN! Reduce reuse, remake!", "Still a huge step forward from ending up in the ocean.", "hahahah what a pathetic false equivalency", "It was when it was shipped to the store. They unwrapped it before they put it on display", "They have choice during the primaries. You get what you vote for", "Our local NHL Arena brags about providing 100% recyclable concessions, but lost the recycling contract before the arena opened so now they just ship it off to a landfill. Apparently they’re looking for alternatives but as of now, the stadium ops staff just combines the landfill and recycling bins into one. Kinda pisses me off.", "We're literally still building powerplants that burn coal and gas lmao. Might as well build ones that burn trash, keep living in your utopic world.", "Have you considered just watching the news like an adult?", "> I have 2 garbage cans. Plastic goes in one, garbage in the other.\n\nWhat about metal, plastics, paper, food waste etc? All in garbage too?", "schizophrenia", "This is just a small part of the fact that the vast majority of the plastic recycling industry is not profitable without government subsidy or even environmentally friendly. The whole reason the plastic recycling industry exists is to make people feel less guilty about using plastic.", "Well, reusing is a whole different conversation.", "^ What corporate propaganda does to a mf", "got an article for that?", "Good point.", "It didn't account for wealthy/controlling daddies who hoard and teach their progeny the tips of the trade about how to milk society for all it's worth.\n\nThey're not going anywhere, and it'd be fascinating sequel to have Luke Wilson's character be given the tap on his shoulder and be introduced to the \"Ill-ol-men-in-Audis\" who've overseen the decline of society but ultimately kept it running.\n\nAfter all, who's making the software and hardware that everybody uses?\n\nWe were introduced to the unwashed masses, but where are the 'proles? And those above them?", "It isn't worth recycling them. IE, you lose money doing it, so in our money makes the world go around society it can't be done. \n\nPlastic 3 and up is shipped to Malaysia because the USA, Europe, and China all have wages too high to cover the cost of employees sorting it. In Malaysia some of it is recycled, and most in thrown into the dump or ocean.", "Here in Toronto, they studied the garbage and recycling stream and at the end of it, only 12% of recycling ends up at a recycling depot. The other 88% did an extra long trip just to end up at the landfill with all the other garbage, so in effect, the recycling stream uses even more resources and it all ends up in the landfill anyway.\n\nTbh, the only reason I separate the \"recyclables\" from the garbage is because my garbage can is comically small and would fill in a day", "That is the unfortunate reality of most recycling programs.", "Lol, sure buddy. \n\nIt's always someone else's fault and you can do no wrong. I bet you want to pass a law to make everyone who owns a business do it for you so your lazy ass can go into a mall and not feel bad. \n\nGet over yourself, take some responsibility, and come up with an response that isn't some propaganda bullshit meant to make you seem helpless.", "Serious question, why can't we just put all the trash into deep space", "That's 'the way it's actually played' on the internet, anymore. \n\nI'd say, 'it's the meta', but fuck Zuck.", "The recycled HDPE market is really hot right now they just need to sell it. Good bales are going for a dollar a pound. No excuse not to sell this stuff. There are perfectly acceptable formats for plastic to end up in that benefit the world. Thick Drainage pipes is a great outlook for recycled plastics that prevent flooding while lasting 100s of years being useful.", "They may have to occasionally divert biowaste back to the normal waste stream to deal with excess volume that's beyond the capacity of the biowaste recycling system. It may be there's going to be more capacity later or there are other inefficiencies at play.\n\nIt's simpler for operations to have all consumers always separate biowaste out and instruct collectors to process it according to the current situation at the plant, even on a daily basis.", "The dude went full hack. He literally will just say anything is a sin, it is a meaningless word in his dictionary. Yet he somehow still gets millions of views to describe something in a movie scene and call it a sin.", "I mean. I guess this is better than it being in the ocean, though?", "Oh, are we shitting on Oliver now? Is that what we're doing? \n\nGod we self-sabotage so much as lefties.", "the silly thing is, if it had went to china and was unusable or something. They would have just thrown it into landfills. But they will still see it as \"recycled\". If anything, its probably better that it was sitting in a warehouse. There will be some future advancement that could help us with plastic problems and maybe actually recycle it.", "https://soylent.com/\n\nಠ_ಠ", "Practical engineering, New York Times, Oversimplified, chubbyemu, pbs space time, kaptainkristian, and notjustbikes are other educational YouTube’s I like.", "Apparently you have never experienced bad air pollution", "Hefty has started a partnership with energy companies to accept most plastics that municipalities don't recycle. They turn some of it into diesel fuel and burn the rest as fuel for power plants. https://www.hefty.com/products/hefty-energybag", "It did, it stopped right there in that warehouse.", "Smash the garbage down and do the twisty thingie tooo", "It's almost like everything in the world is a giant fucking scam.", "Which is fine. We can sustain some pollution, particularly since if we dramatically reduce the volume of refuse created by getting rid of all the needless bottles and utensils and shit like that we'll be much better able to ensure that most of the waste ends up in the proper places rather than in the ocean or the like. We're not talking about a small amount here, either--single-use plastics are estimated to account for upwards of half the plastics produced, and beyond that are far more likely to be discarded haphazardly leading to the primary type of damage caused by plastic pollution.\n\nAbandoning plastics entirely would likely kill a great number of people through everything from a lack of availability of healthcare devices to major disruptions in the economies and daily lives of those in countries that can't sustain the increase in costs. There is always a balance--otherwise the best solution to end pollution is [human extinction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement)", "The last town I was in made us have 3 trash cans. One for plastic/glass, one for cardboard, and one for everything else. Then the garbage truck would come every week and throw them all in the back. What a waste of time.", "…please re-read my comment. I said progressive dems and republicans in the US, Green Party in most other western democracies.", "This world is so fcked up!", "Highly recommend this well researched video showing how plastic recycling is actually a scam propagated by the plastics conglomerates: https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g\n\nFor example, did you know that the recycling symbol on plastic containers isn’t even the recycling symbol? It’s a actually a “resin identifier code” made to look like a recycle symbol.", "What", "https://soylent.com/products/soylent-drink-mint-chocolate-1\n\nIt's kinda green ....", "Internal Combustion Engine", "It's a worker safety thing. Commingled recycling still requires a lot of hand sorting.", "In the far north it's months of darkness, sun won't even go over the horizon. I don't live that far north though so I still get to see the sun for a couple of hours in the middle of the day. \n\n> Do you have plans for this winter?\n\nWon't really go anywhere due to the current world condition, will probably just relax beside the light therapy lamp. If it feels really depressing maybe bringing in a couple of buckets of sand and spread out on the floor, play some seagull and wave sounds and pretend I'm on a beach in a nice tropical country.", "THEREFORE....", "It's is different, they're not synonyms. Both the technical meaning and the actual process. Incineration uses much higher temperatures and is pressurized (in the range of 500 psi). You can't incinerate something in the open, it has to be enclosed, burn you can do under open air.", "I love John Oliver, he's making the world a better place. But he does have a formula that gets a little exhausting. \n\nThe moral power of the left is that no one is above criticism. Unfortunately it's also a political weakness.", "Some want to use it in pavement and increase microplastics. That's \"recycling\".", "Yeah, I came at you harsh I realize. And you're right--always one hand tied behind our back.", "Corporations need to be forced to sort and recycle their own products. If they create the plastic, they are in charge of the cleanup. See how fast their milk jugs go from plastic to cardboard. It will happen instantly with like 20% of the products we got out there.", "Y’all Icelandic folk age well.\n\nIt’s strange how a country that is so environmentally conscious could have this happen - but at the same time, I am glad it was not dumped into the environment. If the stopgap for the time being is sequestering in a warehouse, at least that means we can still do something to actually recycle it.", "Recycling isn't exactly a capitalism fuck up. If the economy were purely capitalist, the obvious problem with recycling would make it a non-starter: it takes far too much energy to recycle plastic to make it worth doing, so without outside subsidies it will lose money. The problem is that we were duped by the plastics companies themselves, who lobbied heavily to get the government to fund & mandate recycling programs to make everyone feel like there was a solution to plastic waste and that they were part of that solution.", "It’s all about the money. Again", "Well, you are supposed to REDUCE and REUSE first, recycling is a last resort", "What killed me recently was aluminum beer cans not being able to be recycled. I was dumbfounded, it turns out they are using a process to label the cans that means recyclers can't do anything with them. Aluminum, the most recyclable material on the planet -- until recently 80-90% of what was in use was recycled.\n\nBut now we are mining the ore, refining it into aluminum, shaping it into a can, printing on it with weird sleeves and plastics, filling it with beer, shipping it to you to drink and then it goes into a landfill unusable by anyone.\n\nIt isn't something that's made it into public consciousness yet, but it's starting to.", "The almighty dollar is just an abstraction for how much effort it takes to do something. If you have to have human beings drive huge trucks full of syrofoam across long distances, after sorting out the styrofoam from everything else, then do the actual process of recycling, all of that takes time and it takes effort. All that time and effort gets abstracted into dollar costs and summed up, and it sometimes turns out to just not be worth it.\n\nThe problem is that the pre-consumer and post-consumet summations are separate. It is easy to produce styrofoam, and hard to recycle it, but since the two things don't have to be linked and the two prices are paid by different parties, styrofoam still gets made and used.", "Energy intensive though, we need a lot more clean, cheap electricity.\n\nNot that plastic production isn't energy intensive though.", "Pepsi Co and Coca-Cola Co have to return to using glass bottles. Boom, there you go, I’ve just removed one of the largest sources of single use plastics.\n\nWolf in sheep’s clothing over here says that lowering your quality of life is favorable to industrial regulations", "You can't trust the government for everything, just like you can't trust the free market for everything. The invisible hand will NEVER take externalities like pollution into account, which makes a totally laissez-faire economy unsustainable in the long run. You need some third party to somehow force externalities into the equation, and the government is a natural fit for that role.\n\nDoesn't mean it's always done well or right, but there is no sustainable large scale economic activity without powerful government to force externalities to be accounted for.", "Yes, exactly, and the market will adjust. Maybe you shouldn't be able to buy a plastic Nerf gun for $20 if it's made of plastic that cannot be recycled. The price is artificially low now, because the true cost to the environment is not part of the price tag the consumer pays. You put that cost into the price tag, and the consumer adjusts their spending.", "The stuff they can't get rid of is MDP and LDPE, e.g., bottle caps, packaging, etc.", "REDUCE like during the pandemic lockdown, and then the lessened consumer consumption destroyed the economy. And what wasn’t consumed was thrown into the garbage before it was sold\n\nREUSE things that are designed to not be repaired, and are designed to break after a set amount of time. In some cases it’s illegal to reuse or repair.\n\nAnd recycle is a scam as well.\n\nSo how about ya face reality", "Recycling doesn't just mean taking one product and make the same product of it again, again and again endlessly. That idea seem to have become really popular in North America as I mainly see Americans running with that idea. I don't know if it stems from media or political misinformation, lack of education or what, but it's wrong. Nothing can be recycled in that way, everything degrades sooner or later. You can get around 10 re-uses out of Polyethylene before the molecular bonds are too weak and you have to properly trash it because it can't be melted and extruded into new pellets. Glass is probably best material as it weakens incredibly slowly(1000's of years), but it's also very energy-intensive to recycle which is the big drawback, the energy infrastructure is going have a big challenge as it is transiting away from fossil fuels. \n\nRecycling just means getting another use of an item before it is \"spent\". That's all it is, and there are many ways recycling can be done, including DIY repurposing in imaginative ways. It's not going to save anything in the long run, it's in most cases only marginally better than making the same thing brand new. But as long as humans are alive we generate trash that we have to get rid of in some way, and incineration is the best alternative to landfills. Looking past the co2 emissions and the heavy metal and dioxin contaminated air-scrubbers (which we right now just pile up and bury in bedrock tunnels) it's as good as we can get currently. Maybe we can capture the emitted co2 in the future, but that's a fantasy right now. \n\n> especially since the idea of burning plastic creates a problem that 'recycling' is supposed to avoid (pollutants etc).\n\nHeat trapping gases like co2 and methane are classified differently than air pollution in the industry. Both are absolutely big problems, and climate changing gases affect the amount of pollution in the atmosphere indirectly (wild fires, soot, smog as a by-product of manufacturing, trapping weather patterns). By air-pollution you typically mean fine particulates or not naturally occuring gases.", "thank you!!", "Good chance that’s a relic from when they could be shipped out to China. They probably keep it up, hoping there will eventually be a market or something they started hoping to find a market, depending on when the program was begun. \n\nWe have trash, recycling and green waste (grass clippings, leaves, small limbs etc. ) cans. \n\nI pull my cans and bottles and take them to the local private recycling center. I get $30-$40 every few months that I put towards a bottle of Jack.", "This used to be called Youtube voice.", "First toilat paper, then wood n materials now plastic?\n\nWhat are they building??", "Someone should do something!!", "Thanks for the link. I’ve seen a lot of those statistics before and unfortunately that article didn’t convince me very strongly of the headline. It did reiterate a lot of important info like oil and gas companies being the ones pushing bans on minor consumer plastics to distract people from the real issues of 70% of pollution being created by large corporations.\n\nPlastic recycling is not very good, but I remain unconvinced that it is actively bad. The solution is still legislation though.", "Well it is bad because there was a clear regulation what to do with it.\n\nThis is propf that the garbage left the regulation and something isnt working.\nSo by pure luck it was stored and also by pure luck it was found.\n\nThink of it this way: if you find a cockroach in your drawer you dont think „good this this one cockroach wasnt in my food!“\n\nFinding one is proof that something is out of control.\nThats the problem here", "Or you could stop drinking soda, save your health and get a reusable bottle for water. \n\nBut you know, pass your laws and call me names.", "Ahhh I feel you there. I live in NJ and they’re banning plastic/paper bags from grocery stores. I’m sure I’ll get used to it, but it’s such a quality of life change cause I also use those bags as trash bags lol. But hey.. we still have cruise ships", "It will if you factor in all the externalized costs of just letting it go to waste. Beverage bottles made of plastic are readily recyclable. \n\n- 1 is polyester (specifically, polyethylene terephthalate or PETE). Can be recycled into all kinds of things. \n- 2 is high-density polyethylene (HDPE). Very recyclable. \n- 3 is vinyls (including PVC). \n- 4 is low-density polyethylene (LDPE). Usually used in films and bags - very recyclable but has to be manually sorted because automated equipment shreds it. \n- 5 is polypropylene - often used interchangeably with HDPE for plastic food packaging. Very durable, very reusable, very recyclable.\n- 6 is polystyrene, most commonly used in foam form in insulation and clamshell to-go packages. Recyclable, but the foam tends to shred and get everywhere in the environment when processed on automatic sorting. High density PS is used commonly for fast food drink lids and sometimes cups which is more recyclable than the foam kind. Even Lego is a form of polystyrene (ABS), which is very tough. \n- 7 is basically “other” or recycled blends of the other types. Sometimes recyclable.", "Sure, but I still believe my point about him and other super rich spending the majority of our \"CO2 budget\", by an order of magnitudes, still stands.", "thank you!", "You're right, unless we're taking environmental science (or waste management) in college, we basically have an oversimplified explanation of what recycling is exactly. \"Burning trash\" regardless of the context is often used even as media images highlighting things like environmental criseses etc. What you explained isn't even mentioned dumbed down on any recycling literature for city recycling programs (at best we might have a little map telling us what kind of waste for recycle goes to which state/location for processing).", "Haha legit. I loved that bit, so true.", "Rent free.", "Exactly! Someone is running the show somewhere, benefiting from the mass consumerism.", "It's not just the deposit that gets me though, it's the environmental fee, which is in place to offset the environmental impact of said item and is non-refundable unlike the deposit.", "I haven't had a power bill in 7 years and use a peak of 100kWh's in 24 hours.", "I don't know about that. Launching stuff is a known cost, and all the tech already exists. Working underground is stupid expensive, even more so if we're going deep enough to be below the flows and tolerant of the heat and pressure. \n\nIn fact, I'm not even sure we have the technology to be able to do that.", "To my knowledge, Japan for examples separates their trash into 5 different catagories. Organic, Plastic, Paper, Burnable and Waste. with Paper and Plastic being exclusively stuff like clean cardboard and PET, easily recyclable materials, with Burnable being \"Incinerable waste\". \n\nI might very likely be wrong, just going off of what i've heard in podcasts off of non-natives expressing their frustrations over those catagories.", "That spin launch is bullshit.\nThey'd end up slinging trash all over the launch site at mach 5.", "At the time, McDonalds still used styrofoam. The idea was to collect it on site, compress it, send it to nearby rinsing facilities where it would be rinsed of food waste, then melted into monomer. The tech to recycle it was insanely easy. The inventor came up with it in his back yard, literally. No massive factories or long-hauling required. And best of all, the polystyrene was returned to a styrene monomer, ready for use all over again. The waste product (a small fraction of the overall amount) was a styrene oil that had an insanely high heat tolerance and had some really cool applications.", "They’re saving it until we figure out how to recycle it better instead of throwing it into a hole and hoping it goes away.", "Gonna burst your bubble, most aluminum doesn't get recycled. It's cheaper to buy new virgin billets from China and use fresh aluminum than it is to recycle it and turn it into something useful. All that aluminum you send in for recycling pretty much sits in a warehouse.\n\nGlass is even worse as most manufacturers want clear and once the elements necessary to make clear glass are added to make it brown or green then it's too contaminated to ever get recycled so it gets down-cycled and becomes something like pavers or ground glass. It'll never see another bottle again.", "Whoa! I did not know this. As someone who works at a bar that sends a lot of aluminum beer cans to be recycled, I’d love to know more if you have any links. Also gonna be googling this myself", "Guess you’re a better person", "Don’t waste your time, his replies are disingenuous. \n\nA 1% reduction would make exactly a 1% difference. Whether that meets his threshold for being worth doing or not, saying that it’s nothing when he literally quantified it earlier in his sentence is absurdity. \n\nAlso nobody said anything about boycotting straws, that’s a disingenuous characterization of the comment that suggested reduced consumption. They didn’t say to stop using straws and calling it a day, nor make the implication that a small action would have massive effects.", "I think the whole \"recycling\" scam was made up by the petrochemical industry so that they could keep pumping out plastics.", "Plastic that's released into the environment has that tendency, yes. It will break down mechanically as well as from UV damage and form microplastics. \n\nI'm talking about plastic that is interred underground. How, specifically, is a plastic bottle that gets disposed of in a landfill more horrendous for the environment than a glass bottle?", "Corporations can already fund anything they want as far as PR goes. \n\nCitizens United was about whether people lost their freedom of speech just because they pooled their money together.", "I don't doubt that, but over the past 8 years I've been involved in buying hundreds of items from Apple for various businesses and the amount of packaging has significantly come down. They really have reduced the amount of internal packaging and when we've order 20 of something they've turned up in smaller and smaller boxes.\n\nI really can't the same for Dell. Some of the laptops we've ordered come in big garish boxes with tons of internal plastic.", "You put it in the original dispenser. The Cif Power & Shine Kitchen Cleaning Spray Refill uses 80% less plastic and is just 10x concentrated liquid you mix with water.", "That’s capitalism for you boys and girls. Recycling is not profitable.", "And you can can do all of that without energy production. My point was incineration does not imply energy production. It only implies more proper disposal.", "Fuck Iceland", "That's why proper incinerators have particulate filters. I am against burning plastics in regular boilers, bonfires or anywhere else where the temperature is not enough to break down polymers.", "So given the option between legislating glass bottles and getting rid of soda all soda, you chose getting rid of all soda.\n\nDo you hear yourself? Do you not understand how insane that sounds? A simple solution that allows us to keep the luxury vs getting rid of the luxury all together.", "Interesting. I have not heard of them. Are they effective at removing particulate?", "The the New York method just flush it to the next state", "Sure, he did. He was built by Darth Vader and carried Dr. Theopolis around on his chest.", "Want to buy an aluminum can? Aluminum canned.\n\nDon't ask what aluminum cans do for you, ask what you can do for aliminum cans.", "> John Oliver is very formulaic. Say a couple of very serious, deep lines. Follow up with a silly impression. Rinse, repeat. Very rarely do you find a serious 4-5 minute stretch. Sure - the argument would be its supposed to be in a late night comedy slot. In any case, turns me off.\n\nI couldn't agree more and I couldn't express it better. To me it's neither funny nor particularly informative", "Or a decent education", "A [quick google will get you there](https://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/packaging-distribution/labeling-affects-recyclability-of-your-aluminum-beer-cans/):\n\n>With the increased popularity of craft beverages comes an increased need to stand out to the consumer, leaving many smaller artisan producers looking for affordable short run decoration methods. This, more often than not, results in aluminum cans being labeled or sleeved using plastic materials and adhesives. Plastic must be used as it will survive the can filling and washing process, but it has a detrimental effect on the recyclability of the can. PVC is still the most popular material for labels and shrink sleeves: its use creates additional steps in the recycling process and increases the number of cans which are rejected at the recycling center and end up in landfill.\n\nIt astonished me as I'm a beer nerd, and it's not something beer nerds really know how to talk about right now. And that's before you even [get to the plastic top holders](https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/10/26/craft-beer-plastic-toppers-recycling)(the tops of the packs they come in) which are also [entirely non-recyclable](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/16/business/seeing-environmental-issue-brewers-their-allies-craft-way-recycle-plastic-beer-can-carriers/). And that's before you get to the issues with how many aren't interested in using recycled can aluminum vs other sources after they go through the whole process -- so the beverage makers end up [having virgin aluminum brought in from overseas](https://www.treehugger.com/beer-and-pop-cans-are-not-being-recycled-because-car-makers-dont-recycled-aluminum-4858076). It's asinine. [A writup here](https://thetakeout.com/are-shrink-wrapped-beer-cans-recyclable-1832063063) talks about some of the issues with the sleeves, but is very off about how bad it's gotten .\n\nThe shift to aluminum from bottles helped them so you could take your beers to the beach, but it's not worth this.", "r/simpsonsdidit", "Once capitalists make money out of it, they're on.\n\nHere in Australia Coca Cola, after spending years fighting container depisit schemes in the courts, now take recycling contracts. Partly (mostly) for the reasons you outline, partly for the contract money.", "Perhaps we are talking about a different wall-e", "https://youtu.be/Z4gU5tasaOU", "That's definitely not the meta everywhere. It's an underhanded tactic to try and game the statistics at the cost of your voice as a content creator being trusted as intelligent.\n\nGranted most people don't care about the reliability of the voice and only how well produced and how in agreement with them it is, so that's why it works. It's lowest common denominator entertainment.", "Why are you only interested in plastic bottles which get interred underground? Many don't.\n\nAlso even those that do, can still find their way into the food chain through movement of groundwater, earth and animals.", "Wow, that is fucked up. Thanks for the links! Definitely gonna be doing some more reading", "I spent $30 on 6 cucumbers at my local farmers market 5 years ago. Never again.", "If Im \"insane\" because I choose things for myself instead of making regulations to do them for everyone else then yea.\n\nI'm fucking crazy.", "I’m glad we agree then.", "Lol - funny. \n\nI know you are but what am I?\n\nIf you think regulations on everyone are your key to a just and fair society, a clean regulated environment, and a world you want for your kids... \n\nI got news for you. \n\nPeople like you - who just barly passed high school it seems.... the guy you know you hate, the woman with 3 marriages and 4 kids... total idiots, the lot of us. \n\nThat who makes and ENFORCES your \"regulations\" \n\nCorruption, green, nepotism, you name it. \n\nThat's your regulation. \n\nGlASS? Who gives a fuck about GLASS?", ">bur", "Individual action does very little unfortunately. It's like people saying \"bike to work\" and then work at a tech company, who's computer is made from parts outsourced globally manufactured internationally then sold where they are. Driving isnt making much of an impact. It is, but not much. Get entirely rid of cars today, and we've still got a massive pollution problem. \n\nBoats and ships are not clean. The industrial park where they smelt the aluminum that goes into the smelter that smelts an alloy that makes up the frame of your bike, the parts of which of which were made in the same way in 6 different countries and eventually to your local manufacture and eventually to your local store, all of that creates harmful waste. Yeah, keep bragging about how you're saving the planet by cutting down on transportation emissions lol (that's the ambiguous you're, not the you personally your)", "Whereas, in the scouts, you wanted #7 in your nalgene because, as we proved at one point, you can fucking shoot it with a bullet, throw some duct tape over it, and it will be fine. It never degrades. Story is one dude chucked his off a mountain, found it 3 hours later while hiking back to camp, and it was fine. Cant speak to the latter but I was there for the former. Shits indestructible.", "Most places dont. I saw it at my own college, saw it at multiple public places I worked. Theres two slots in the top, they lead to the same fucking bin lol", "Yikes! Some things can be so pricey (baked goods, meat), and others can be the same or less than stores, depending on who the supplier is. At least in my area, where we have multiple produce suppliers in one market. I can get fresh herbs and most produce cheaper at the farmers market but one time I bought a decorative pumpkin without looking at the tag and paid 70$ 😬", "Two unskipable ads? I guess I'm not watching that video on mobile. Maybe I'll remember when I get back to my laptop with adblocker.", "As the other replies have said, it is typically reused. And also, higher shipping costs isn't necessarily a negative, it just means companies would have to open more local bottling (and therefore recycling) plants, which just increases the amount of jobs everywhere. It only hurts the billionaire investors wallets, which we really should be finding more ways to hurt, because they aren't re-investing evenly they're just hoarding.", "Doesn't stop the CO2 from entering the atmosphere though.", "It's all about appearances.", ">Why are you only interested in plastic bottles which get interred underground? Many don't.\n\nBecause I want you to tell me why the ones that do are a problem. People keep saying they are a problem like its an established fact. How, specifically, does plastic in a landfill make it out into the food chain, and how is that worse for the environment than the impact of glass bottles.", "Hahahahah you really can't comprehend the distinction between reduction and complete stoppage. What a fuckin world you must live it", "Boo fucking hoo. Tell your mom on me. She'll take care of it for you since you can't be bothered to do anything for yourself.", "What a mad lad, you truly are a reddit guy.", "I didn't specify landfill. You did. But then to help you out, I did explain why plastic in landfill is also damaging. If you're accepting that plastic is more dangerous when it ends up anywhere other than landfill, then that's still sufficient.", "You do realize it takes energy to move in space. We can't just drop it into the sun. It takes 9.4 km/s of delta V to get to low earth orbit. It takes 18.9km/s to go from earth orbit to close solar. So your solution only solves for less that 1/3 of the total energy required.", "https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g", "What about products that are essential and can only be found in single use plastic containers? Shampoo, conditioner, deodorant, mouthwash, hand soap, detergent, an endless list of food products, etc.\n\nThen the consumer is saddled with the extra cost and no alternative choices (as the minimal niche products available with better packaging charge a premium for the luxury) and the cost of living increases further, while the manufacturer can misrepresent the increased income and watch their stock price inflate and the government collects the extra cash for doing absolutely nothing, at whatever rate they choose.\n\nLaid out like that, suddenly it sounds like exactly what's going to happen when enough people wake up and start making noise about the issue...", "Unfortunately so but hopefully that lining could be a fraction of the plastic required for a container made entirely of plastic.\n\nIt's more complicated though as the increased weight adds to the environmental impact of transportation, plus increased cost of both transportation and manufacturing which will likely be passed on to the consumer only increases the cost of living in a society where most wages do not cover that cost already...\n\nClearly a complex issue that requires much deliberation by people more qualified than the average Reddit comments section", "Ofc they are, but that doesn't mean that they are actually recycled into new bottles.", "But the microplastics it will generate are not sequestered and afaik removing CO2 is far more feasible than microplastics.\n\nFurthermore, CO2 emissions are intrinsic to our society to a certain extent and must be carefully managed and combined with large carbon capture operations.\n\nAll plastic but single use especially is far less intrinsic and 90% of plastic use can be eliminated completely, exchanged for other options with far more manageable environmental consequences.\n\nYou neglect to mention that the colossal amount of plastic generated is dependent on fossil fuels which are not a renewable resource whatsoever, the extraction of which has significant environmental impacts not to mention the damage caused by constant oil spills. Paper is both renewable and biodegradable. Aluminum is finite but extensive and reusable endlessly. Plastics are accumulating in every single part of the environment at an exorbitant rate where they will stay for ten thousand years.", "👍🏻", "No, it won’t. Nevada is only behind Alaska and Montana for population density outside of Las Vegas. The entirely of the Great Basin is essentially empty (what isn’t cattle grazing land or national preserve/reserve is both). I can see the dump for 2 million people in Clark County from my front door, it’s in the mountains and 2 decades old (with another decade of expected operation). One dump, 3/4 the state’s population.\n\nYou severely underestimate the size of the West. And even if you actually believe that, Nevada is only this habitable thanks to the Colorado River Basin. It will dry up and turn into a lawless desert hole long before the coastal cities will think to move here. (Hint: when Vegas runs out of water, so does large parts of LA, and most of the surrounding farm land will have already been lost).", "I love the idea of every city in the world relocating to active volcanos just to recycle plastic and burn their trash. Entire cities built up along the sides, skyscrapers towering over the rim, everyone living at high elevation. People paying high prices to live on the edge so they can just yeet trash from their 100th story windows directly into the lava.", "I was just in Vegas and thinking about it's eventual demise. Where exactly is Vegas getting there water? Wasn't it from Lake Mead? Isn't that about gone? What happens after that? I do know how big the west is though. That drive from Reno to Vegas, yikes.", "The Lake. They’ll get it last, even supposedly when the water no longer flows beyond the dam (no water for LA or Phoenix, no dam power either). But if we hit that stage, known as “dead pool”, we will be 1000% fucked since the water level will keep dropping, the big more powerful states will want every drop they can get, and the flow from upstream will be gone too (meaning the water quality will be fucked too).\n\nIf not for the pandemic, the emergency water crisis going on right now would be the doom and gloom on the news. The whole SW is doomed. I’m moving, I already sold my house, I don’t recommend putting down roots at the very least.", "AKA China finally got caught dumping all that plastic into the ocean and stopped accepting more", "Yeah I was thinking all this was eventually going to happen but the attitude seems to be, \"fuck it, let's sink this ship as fast as possible and pretend like water is an endless resource!\"", "Nevada residents actually use the least amount of water per capital in the US. Of course that means nothing with the casinos and golf courses and agriculture. Same story with recycling and carbon footprint. It’s all theater.\n\nWe have plenty of water. We don’t have plenty of water for people and a bunch of cows and alfalfa and tourist play grounds. But this is the logical progression of unchecked capitalism, and, by definition, the people have too little power to stop it without overthrowing capitalism altogether.\n\nEven then, it’s going to be a really rough couple of centuries at minimum.", "\"easily filtered\" i.e. a bunch still ends up in the environment. This is horse shit, and if you actually know anything about the subject, then you're arguing in bad faith.\n\nhttps://www.ec.gc.ca/toxiques-toxics/Default.asp?lang=En&n=0D129B0A-1&wbdisable=true", ">microplastics it will generate are not sequestered\n\nWhat microplastics? \n\nWe are talking about plastic going into a properly managed landfill. \n\nPlastics in the ocean come from improper waste management in a few countries in Asia and Africa.\n\nWe have lots of oil for the time being, and technology will develop to process the plastics locked up in landfills if required. \n\nI think you are failing to understand how little plastic waste we have compared to the amount of landfill options available, particularly given this does not put CO2 into the atmosphere like burning it does.", ">cucumbers, tomatoes\n\nwithout plastic are easy. Now the others I agree with.", "Closing of borders etc. Also EU auditors were not able to audit the sites anymore as they would not be able to enter the country.\n\nIn general there are quite a few traders that buy and resell. Some of them for example do some additional sorting on the less homogenic bales to sell it for more. The rest they’ll ship to china (not anymore ofc), vietnam, malaysia,…\n\nIt’s a real pain to be able to ensure traceability from inside EU and i think we’ll more and more start recylcing here in EU or Turkey. You can see it already where things like recycled content are emerging.", "I know you but what am I.", "Sounds like iceland should just skip the middleman and build a modern incineration facility.", ">e a small amount of money exporting the stuff to China, and China recently stopped accepting medium density polyethylene, so anybody with a warehouse of this stuff expected to make a few dollars a bale is stuck now and it would cost money for them to dispose of", "Well I would argue that putting almost 10m EV cars on the road easily makes up for it? Sure you can argue semantics about the production of the batteries and blah blah but still. He himself has made the world a better place. Now all the major car companies are trying to play catch up.", "No you fail to understand what microplastics are and how they are produced. It does not involve the ocean by necessity. As plastics do not break down, they only break apart into smaller and smaller pieces over time, whether in the ocean or in a landfill or on the side of the road. \n\nTherefore, any plastic in the environment, be it landfill or whatever, will slowly break apart and form microplastics which leach into the environment and permeate all levels of the ecosystem much easier than a large singular piece of plastic, as they can be carried away by rain water/melt water and wind, or are ingested by organisms accidentally and dispersed thorough the environment and food chain that way (eg earthworms in a landfill which is eaten by a bird who poops the microplastic out into a lake which is eaten by bottom feeders who are eaten by their predators, etc).\n\nConsider the process of now removing those microplastics from every contaminated environment of top of every organism that ingested some and now has a small amount trapped in their stomachs, growing larger, that they disperse throughout their habitat until they die and release it all.\n\nThere is no practical solution or technology for removing these microplastics which by the way will only continue to break into smaller pieces becoming easier to spread to all corners of the environment and even harder to remove. Relative to carbon emissions which 1. Are already sequestered by natural processes and 2. Have some methods of capture currently feasible and able to be improved upon.", "That said, I do agree proper management of plastic waste is critical and invaluable and as far as I know, landfills can be an effective method for plastic disposal with minimal environmental impacts when managed properly.\n\nThat is not a reason to support widespread use of plastic in all scenarios. The amount of plastic used should be restricted heavily to mostly situations that require it, rather than those which save the manufacturer some money which is funneled into executives pockets instead with no benefit to the consumer \n\nFurthermore, while first world countries demonstrate some proper plastic waste management, improper plastic waste management is widespread in non-first world countries, the same countries to which all those first world countries export their garbage at exorbitant rates. \n\nSince it's somewhat impractical to expect struggling countries to effectively implement changes demanded by better-off nations, restricting the amount of plastic waste generated instead is the most feasible and rapid method of drastically reducing the impacts of plastic waste.", "You are attributing that achievement solely to one man, that is some cult-of-personality level stuff. This \"conversation\" no longer has an any use or value", "Keep living in your non existent utopia, I can tell it's working out well for you.", "Lol what is your point anymore. All youre doing is parroting utopia bad over and over hahah.", "My point is you're not living in the real world, your opinion doesn't reflect the world we live in but some place you made up in your head.\n\nTouch grass.", "What fucking opinion of mine doesn't reflect reality lmao. That plastic burning should slowly be phased out with every other form of non renewable energy because there's only a finite amount of fossil fuels on the planet and it won't last forever? That they produce harmful toxins and damage the environment? Youre a fucking moron who dropped you as a child hahah.\n\n Like you think we love in some magical fairy world where we can just burn fossil fuels and petroleum derivatives forever because it grows on trees and is made of sunshine and Ronald raegans ejaculate", "Sounds about right.\n\n\nI don't know what it's like in Europe, but in the US we have these useless \"Recyclable\" symbols printed on all plastic. The problems?\n\n\nWell, for one, it's not actually recyclable. It can only be downcycled. This is not like glass containers which can readily be cleaned and reused, or broken down, melted and re-cast. It's plastic. So it gets shredded down and used as filling for something else. \n\n\nFor another? Only two varieties of plastics are even readily recycled; type 1 and type 2 plastics. Everything else may have the recyclable logo on it, but because there's no known use for them, and no market demand, it's functionally trash. \n\n\nAnd that ignores the chemicals that go into plastic- just because something is labeled \"BPA Free\" doesn't immediately mean it's safe, and many replacements for BPA are at least as bad as it- have serious health consequences. \n\n\nLong story short, don't use plastic if you don't need to. If you don't have a choice, only recycle stuff that's recyclable. You're ironically making things worse by not properly sorting it all.", "> form microplastics which leach into the environment and permeate all levels of the ecosystem much easier than a large singular piece of plastic\n\nClearly you don't understand how a landfill works", "Actually you don't have a clue what you taking about.\n\nhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004313541930377X?casa_token=-n0lGZB5fZsAAAAA:r_wuXi_W-EjQr-VUz-zWJ5L9HIBE8UgJhaOipoxUvg7pQiDyAN-qJEQts72kFL_ng--pmlnsLhQ", "This isn't the gotcha you think it is. \n\nSure, a small amount of plastic can get out of an improperly managed landfill, but this is still far better than putting tens of thousands of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere", "Thats mainly for plastics that cant be recycled anymore (think single use plastics line straws, thin plastic foil, ... Imo better than ending up in landfill or ocean.", "modern incineration plants seem to be very clean. in the end of the day its just a powerplant that is fed with trash instead of coal/oil/gas. they all have the possibility to add additional oil/gas to keep the fire hot enough to prevent toxin formation. \n\n\nbtw, particulate matter is one of the easiest things to remove: \nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic\\_precipitator \n\n\n \nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration#Pollution \n\n\n>In a study from 1997, Delaware Solid Waste Authority found that, for same amount of produced energy, incineration plants emitted fewer particles, hydrocarbons and less SO2, HCl, CO and NOx than coal-fired power plants, but more than natural gas–fired power plants.\\[15\\] According to Germany's Ministry of the Environment, waste incinerators reduce the amount of some atmospheric pollutants by substituting power produced by coal-fired plants with power from waste-fired plants.\\[16\\]", "Incineration \n \n [Pollution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration#Pollution) \n \n >Incineration has a number of outputs such as the ash and the emission to the atmosphere of flue gas. Before the flue gas cleaning system, if installed, the flue gases may contain particulate matter, heavy metals, dioxins, furans, sulfur dioxide, and hydrochloric acid. If plants have inadequate flue gas cleaning, these outputs may add a significant pollution component to stack emissions. In a study from 1997, Delaware Solid Waste Authority found that, for same amount of produced energy, incineration plants emitted fewer particles, hydrocarbons and less SO2, HCl, CO and NOx than coal-fired power plants, but more than natural gas–fired power plants.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "My place of work has recycle bins in the break room. But recently it was discovered we don't recycle anything because we don't have a recycling pick up at the company. So it's all trash in different colors.", "I actually had to look the slogan up. I realized after reading through this thread how uncommon it is. I remember watching it in school (teacher must have brought in a VHS or something). It looks like it was a Disney thing, though. I definitely didn't have the Disney channel growing up, so this makes it even weirder to learn about. Here's the wiki on it in case anyone is still interested: \n\nhttps://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Close_the_Loop", "According to the people you've replied to it must be a natural wonder of the world that gas stations aren't rampant with nozzles on the ground pumping gas into the streets. (All without eye wash stations at that. Doubt that'd fly at my place of work.) \n\nNow if only we had some magical method to prevent valves from staying open by accident, or overflowing, and ways to incentivize proper usage.", "Right? It’s like they’ve never been to a store before. Even at grocery stores they have those self serve water jug filler stations. It’s automated and you just put your container in and hit go. Never any real issues with them ever. I think they’re picturing a 55 gallon drum of bleach and soap with a simple on off valve, like a water hose bibb.\n\nHow do they think the small consumer containers are filled at the factory? It's automated and very safe. Those could pretty easily scaled and modified for a store.", "> What fucking opinion of mine doesn't reflect reality lmao. That plastic burning should slowly be phased out with every other form of non renewable energy because there's only a finite amount of fossil fuels on the planet and it won't last forever? That they produce harmful toxins and damage the environment? Youre a fucking moron who dropped you as a child hahah.\n\nNo your opinion is that we shouldn't burn plastic full stop, instead we'll just burn coal or gas. We're nowhere close to 100% renewable so you can choose what you're going to burn till you get there.", "\|No your opinion is that we shouldn't burn plastic full stop\n\nWow I'm so glad you know what my opinion is better than I do. \n\nI'm saying we shouldn't be burning anything, and that in order to get there we should be moving towards renewables with direct investments right now and while it happens pivot to natural gas since it's CO2 emission per KWh are less than plastic and coal. \n\nMy entire point at the beginning was that burning plastic is bad, which you seem to acknowledge but have a \"well, what're you gonna do\" attitude to. That seems to point to you knowing it's fuckin bad so what in the literal fuck are you arguing with me about? \n\nDo you want to argue about the details of how we slowly turn the economic behemoth towards a renewable energy sector? Like what even the fuck is your argument? Are you saying we don't need to turn at all? You're borderline fucking schizo is your incoherence man jesus", "true still getting ehat out of it and using that heat is a bit better than letting things slowly rot and have them release the CO2 that way", "Burning plastic is good because the alternative is worse, and it makes energy which is a nice bonus.\n\n\"recycling\" plastic on a molecular level is so energy and cost intensive it's worse than burning it.", "Yeah it's better than coal but we need to stop burning everything. It's not an effective stopgap since we need to move away from petroleum and petroleum derivatives in general man. \n\nWe need to stop making so much plastic in the first place and increasing the burn capacity for plastics only encourages plastic production which is directly tied to high CO2 emissions. We have plants already and we should be scaling down plastic production gradually and let the plants we already have destroy the plastic that's there over time. \n\nThe opportunity cost between building more trash power plants and natural gas or renewables includes the externality of incentivizing plastic production on top of all of the other ones.\n\nAlso, this is very similar to the highway problem in cities. If you create more highways in cities to relieve congestion it just makes more traffic since more people will use the roads. If you create more capacity to burn trash then people will feel justified in making more trash when the goal needs to be to reduce waste.", "Plastic is not as recyclable as people think. There are countless formulations, so you can’t just melt it all down together and make new things. We’d be best off moving away from disposable or “recyclable” plastics.", "I have watched the video. My point was that bailing it and keeping it in a location is as good as recycling as \"recycling plastic\" is also largely a scam. What the average person imagines happening once they throw a coke bottle into a blue bin is almost completely wrong. Pressing clean plastic into dense cubes and piling them up like we do with tires is just about as good a solution as anything else we have. But you're right there are other reasons why in this case it's not as simple a that.", "plastic helps reduce co2 emissions, less foodwaste, low weight. Low CO2 to produce.", "[https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2019/08/how-plastics-contribute-to-climate-change/](https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2019/08/how-plastics-contribute-to-climate-change/)\n\nUS total GHG emissions for 2015 were about 1800 million metric tonnes. Yale says there were 15 million metric tonnes contributed in the US from waste burning. That's .83% of the entire US GHG emission total from just incineration. That's not counting refinement, extraction, transportation, or anything else involved in plastic production.", "Wendover also does Half as Interesting. RealLifeLore is someone else", "Do they take Unbreakable or Split?", "You realize there's more waste than just plastic right?", "Where i work in sweden we make polyethene, they plan on building a new factory that Will transform used plastic back into a oil that we crack into new gas..to make new plastic. \n\nMaybe If they keep the plastic this is where it Will go." ]	1,140	videos	60% of Iceland's (2016) 'recycled' plastic was recently found stored in a warehouse in Sweden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI81jH7Phww	/r/videos/comments/redtvo/daphne_savagely_shuts_down_some_nerd/	[ "Savage", "Triple kill.", "If you think Velma is the best looking between the two, upvote right now🤔", "I enjoy this in light of be cool scooby doo where Daphne is just a straight up agent of chaos and would have been the one doing this." ]	4	videos	daphne savagely shuts down some nerd
https://youtu.be/S5-AXUs36QI	/r/videos/comments/reff17/only_in_vegas/	[ "Well have to give him the limo trick He pulled of! It's a though one", "Why so serious?", "I guess they didn't medically hold him long enough.", "got impatient waiting for GTA 6", "That dude sounds like a lot of fun to me LOL", "Trying to donuts in a limo makes me like him a lot more.", "Not what I expected to read today😳", "Crime aside, the reverse 180 stunt driving maneuver in a limo on the Las Vegas strip is really kind of badass.", "Let’s get down to brass tacks - that man doing that donut in a limo was impressive as hell. I’ve never seen anybody drive a limo that fast in reverse." ]	9	videos	Only in Vegas….
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/regfi0/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/regfi0/deleted_by_user/	[ "Next up\n\nme unboxing my pocket sized EMP", "where can i buy one", "One day the last of us, the most clever of us, the fastest, most capable, the ones you always hoped would make it will be cowering among the crumbling rubble while the whirls and clicks get ever closer. The BD Dogs are hunting them down." ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ncdjSgNNsA	/r/videos/comments/reh4xi/mayfield_ky_tornado_damage_at_candle_factory/	[ "That is just tragic. My heart goes out to the families.", "Not quite sure why a candle factory needs to continue operating during a tornado.", "I think the people were taking shelter there.", "Ah, thanks. That makes more sense." ]	4	videos	Mayfield, Ky. tornado damage at candle factory where dozens feared dead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dny3DNjn_F4	/r/videos/comments/reh60l/peter_gabriel_secret_world_live_1993/	[ "Paula Cole killed it picking up the female lead vocals.\n\nI know that opinions differ but I liked her sound on \"Don't Give Up\" more than the original, studio version (with Kate Bush).", "I can't see that guy's face and not think of the Sledge Hammer video.", "I don't blame you. I was born in 1989 and grew up to this kind of music as it was popular in my parent's generation. But as I got older I found myself coming back to the music my parents played and I appreciate it a lot more. You should listen to some of what Peter Gabriel has to offer!" ]	3	videos	Peter Gabriel - Secret World - Live 1993
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rehegl/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rehegl/deleted_by_user/	[ "Yup not many Americans these days appreciate how well off they are. I hope more people see this and start being grateful for what they have and where they are.", "I had the same experience when we had a cuban visitor come up to Canada in the early 90s when Cuba was really in trouble. As bad as it is today, it was worse back then. Anyhow we took him to a Canadian Tire and he practically cried. He wasn't allowed to accept gifts but he did ask us to buy him a replacement element for his electric stove back home. I would have bought him anything in the store if wanted but that was the thing he needed most and he could successfully sneak back home.", "time to appreciate what i have", "Fuck Kellogg’s bullshit. Pay them.", "salty commies seem to be downvoting this", "Oh, now show him get an American medical bill." ]	6	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rehovp/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rehovp/deleted_by_user/	[ "I like how Baby Keem’s verse starts the song off like a generic trap song and then he just fucking unloads once he gets comfortable, I love his little punching dance. And Kendrick sounds like 4 separate people at once on his verse. I really want these guys to become an official duo", "Video been out for a minute but yes. Baby Keems entire body of work is pretty solid but he really came into his own on this recent album. Something I can really appreciate is that he hasn't used his relationship to the goat until he could really stand on his own. That was either Keem's decision or Kendrick's. But it was definitely the right decision because even though Kendrick is on two of his tracks on the album, it truly feels like Kendrick is the feature. Usually other artist disappear when Kendrick's verse starts. That did not happen at all on Baby Keem's album.", "Yeah I really respect him for not coming out and saying he was in Kendrick’s immediate family, that could’ve easily made him blow up fast but he stuck to it and hid his identity. He grinded out his career. I think he’s just gonna keep getting better in the future. He’s extremely likable", "Dude you late late", "Not sure why you got downvoted. I think he's going to continue making good music because he views Kendrick as bar to pass rather than a hand to pull him up. Like of course Kendrick has probably hooked him up with all sorts of advice and connections. But that doesn't get you and allow you to keep the public eye." ]	5	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a2rMyCbL6g	/r/videos/comments/rehwdy/20_years_of_harry_potter_and_the_opening_scenes/	[ "I never watched any of the films past the second or third because I hated the unforced liberties they took with the books. But this sort of makes me want to.", "3rd, 4th and 5th are must watch.", "this is the one where he times travel ? i never liked this one ... but, the intro music of all of them remind me of Christmas so they are a MUST MARATHON WATCH ON CHRISM'S WEEKEND....", "Lmao sure if you're somehow still 12", "Nowhere near enough characters sttretching their legs in the films", "This is very underwhelming? This was pretty cool when I was 11 and super into the books, but it's not even close to top 100 movie openings now." ]	6	videos	20 Years of Harry Potter and the opening scenes still gives me Goosebumps
https://youtu.be/jea3-FE2X-s	/r/videos/comments/rei5o9/lsd_being_tested_on_british_troops/	[ "I’m guessing the weapons weren’t loaded? Lol", "I bet they had such a good time.", "They should feed it to which ever idiotic leader who likes to declare war on other countries.", "I hope not. The fucking rocket launcher haha.", "\"..with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds\"", "How else would you want to go out if not by friendly fire from your fellow trippers", "This make me want to watch Tropic Thunder.", "Wondering if the US would do somthing similar :\|\n\nRegardless, I love this video", "Don't know if your comment is tounge in cheek but US did its own share of experiments, most infamous of which might be MKUltra.", "Try watching Jacobs Ladder instead." ]	9	videos	LSD being tested on British troops
https://youtu.be/o25I2fzFGoY	/r/videos/comments/reinja/george_carlin_on_soft_language/	[ "GOAT", "Shit hot.\n\nOne of the best professional entertainers who used a physical or verbal means to be amusing.", "There will never be another George Carlin", "I wonder if people watch this or just upvote George Carlin because hardly any of this applies anymore. Like I've never heard it called anything but toilet paper.", "Wrong. In the US alone, there are currently 67 people with that name. [Source](http://howmanyofme.com/search/?given=George&sur=Carlin)", "🤣 now that is funny! Haha thank you!", "Yeah, I got a few minutes in and I was like half of these I've only ever heard the first one he says. Also, I feel like post-traumatic stress disorder sounds a lot more daunting than shell shock. After so many misses I got kind of bored of it and closed out.", "There is a reason why those word were changed. For example the very first one \"shell shock\", people don't get nervous breakdown in war just from being bombarded with shells, and that is what subsequent changes tried to achieve - to find a words that better described what actually happened." ]	8	videos	George Carlin on soft language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDuIqAYXMGw	/r/videos/comments/reixqp/jon_anderson_sounded_like_autotune_in_1983_before/	[ "That's just talkbox backing vocals", "Autotune is essentially a high-tech brand of [vocoder ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocoder), which was invented for non-music recording purposes in the 1930s but became a popular sound in the 1970s. This could easily have tuned using 1980s tech.", "Auto tune came a long way" ]	3	videos	Jon Anderson sounded like autotune in 1983 before autotune existed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZD3sGMu-_U	/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/	[ "Headbanger's Ball and 120 Minutes were my after hours jams back in the day.", "Yo MTV Raps, was just around there corner.", "The beginning of the end", "lol didnt mtv last like a month before it was bastardized?", "We're listening to the opinion of these actors we've hired to say our opinions: no more loud, obnoxious blue collar entertainment, no matter how popular.", "The beginning of the end was MTV Cribs and The Osbournes.", "I would go farther and say The Real World", "This. It really was a preview of all the \"reality TV\" programming that then became a flood after Survivor and Big Brother.", "That was the beginning of the end of television as a whole.", "MTV was a major cultural icon for two decades. Now I think they're some kind of reality TV show mill, but there's no denying the huge influence they had", "The Real World aired in 1992. That was the beginning of the end.\n\nThis was just a response to the popular shift from hair metal and power ballads to hip hop.", "Hey if it doesn't turn her on then theres no reason to play it!", "It isn't really though, its just the lowest common denominator at that price point. Why make a well written and produced reenactment of the Battle of the Somme that people would be interested in watching when a couple interviews with wackjobs when a few home videos and a slideshow will make people go \"yeah I guess ill watch this\" for a fraction of the price?", "Hey if it doesn't turn her on then theres no reason to play it!", "and then \"...and Justice for all\" came out and \"Rust in Peace\" 3 years later", "Purview or preview", "I dunno I feel like that was the end of the end for me.", "My dude, MTV was essentially THE defacto media empire that was responsible for much of musical culture of American youth for almost 15 years.", "farther. remote control \n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Control_(game_show)", "[Remote Control (game show)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Control_\$game_show\$) \n \n >Remote Control is a TV game show that ran on MTV for four seasons from 1987 until 1990. It was MTV's first original non-musical program and first game show. A concurrent syndicated version of the series ran during the 1989-90 season and was distributed by Viacom. Three contestants answered trivia questions on movies, music, and television, many of which were presented in skit format.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "I feel attacked.", "Colin Quinn, Dennis Leary, Adam Sandler?? Holy shit lol had some great writing.", "Do I even want to know why the african-american woman in business attire was squatting in front of an open hydrant?", "Of hair metal. This is one of my favorite documentaries, made at the zenith of the hair metal scene, when it looked like it would stay forever, but you can see from the documentary how the end was near:\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DZu6T8aDCA", "This was fine. They were ramping up quality music focused shows like Headbangers Ball, Yo MTV Raps, and 120 Minutes. That was some peak MTV. It was the non music reality shows that were the beginning of the end. And even after the Real World (and later Road Rules) started there was still a lot of music, but those shows were clearly the beginning of the downward trajectory.", "Those were the death nail. Real World and Road Rules were the start down that path to the grave.", "Just an FYI: today - 30 years = 1991", "Damn feels like a knife right in the back this was the start of the end\n\nMuch music was far better", "That was the switch to R&B and Rap only. After that, the switch to reality shows. Then, soon enough, no music at all. Not even in the middle of the night.\n\nAnd seriously, MTV never played any heavy metal. They plaid Poison and Warrant at best. Metal, yes, but you'd really call it arena rock or hair bands. Certainly not heavy metal.", "That was midway through the end.", "And we're not gonna take it!", "Boo! Boo, I say!", "/r/agedlikemilk", "Ive never heard heavy metal referred to as \"blue collar\". \n\nI could see that for some forms of country, espeically before pop-country. \n\nBut heavy metal, idk, I dont feel it has any particular connection to a socio-economic class.", "No matter, MTV played themselves.", "No! We ain't gonna take it!", "We're not gonna take it....anymore!", "Agreed, it was at first The Real World, then Road Rules.", "Keep in mind that it was the WGA writer's strike that happened around that time where studios used \"reality tv\" as a way round not having to use writers for their programs.", ">But heavy metal, idk, I dont feel it has any particular connection to a socio-economic class.\n\nListen to Black Sabbath, the inventors of heavy metal. They all grew up in poverty and were high school dropouts. A huge part of why they had the sound they did was because Iommi downtuned his guitar...because he cut his fingers off in a factory accident. Go read the lyrics for \"War Pigs\" or \"Hand of Doom\". \n\nGeezer Butler, who wrote most of their lyrics, had this to say:\n\n>I was fed up listening to every band and singer singing about falling in love or breaking up. I wanted a more meaningful, realistic, working-class point of view in my lyrics.\n\nAside from that, there are countless other examples. Read the lyrics for Judas Priest's \"Breaking the Law\":\n\n>There I was completely wasting, out of work and down\n\n>All inside it's so frustrating as I drift from town to town\n\n>Feel as though nobody cares if I live or die\n\n\nOr Motorhead's \"Eat the Rich\". Here's an excerpt from Motorhead's \"All the Aces\":\n\n>The only thing I know, is playing rock 'n' roll\nI'm not a business man, I'm just in a good time band,\nYou don't let no-one know, just where the money goes,\nBecause of parasites, I ain't got no rights,\nAll The Aces, I don't like people who ain't got no faces\nYou know I don't know why, you have to be so sly,\nOne thing I learned, I don't get what I earn,\nBut you get your share, though you ain't nowhere\n\nThere are probably tons of other examples. Fear Factory is a good one. Pretty much the entire Napalm Death discography (check out the album cover for \"Scum\" which is just a bunch of rich people and war criminals).\n\nAlso, this line from \"...and Justice for All\":\n\n>Halls of justice painted green\n\n>Money talking\n\n>Power wolves beset your door\n\n>Hear them stalking\n\nEdit: Found another good one, Pantera's \"Strength Beyond Strength\".\n\n>There is nothing.\nNo education.\nNo family life to open my arms to.\nYou'd say that my job is today, yet gone tomorrow.\nI'll be broke in a gutter.\n\n>I know the opinion.\nA broken record.\nFuck you and your college dream.\nFact is we're stronger than all.\n\n>You're working for perfect bodies,\nperfect minds and perfect neighbors.\nBut I'm helping to legalize dope on your pristine streets\nand I'm making a fortune.\n\nEdit 2: Slayer's \"Cast Down\"\n\n>Cast down and thrown away\nYou are the living dead\nThe needle numbs the pain\nOf all your suffering\nThis is where the world of money changes nothing\n\n>Just a statistic in the shadows of the real world\nThe system's failing you just the way it failed me\nHell is home on the concrete where the city bleeds\nAmerica - home of the free - land of fucking\ndisenchantment\n\n...\n\n>You're left here just to waste away\nIn your cardboard prison, asphalt wasteland\n\nEdit 3: Another great band that specifically deals with this stuff is Beneath the Massacre. The album \"The Mechanics of Dysfunction\" has tons of lines like this, and it came out in 2007, before Bernie was nationally popular and before the 2008 collapse:\n\n> Profit has no limits. The invisible hand, the icon, we now can put a face on it.\nOne day you’ll feel the pain you perpetuated all your life.\nBusiness based on sufferance.", "Here in the UK I'd say it was very much working class. I can't ever remember having met a metalhead or rocker who wasn't working class, and I've met a few. You'd be surprised at some of the music UK toffs are into actually. The posh kids at my uni. seemed to really like reggae and ska.", "The master of puppets is pulling their strings!", "I don’t disagree with your examples, but at the time this was aired hair metal was huge, which was definitely not blue collar. Their music and videos tended to flaunt a life of excess and machismo (riding around on Harleys, decked out in outlandish and expensive clothing and jewelry and hairdos, partying night and day without a care in the world) that was a commercialized caricature of the rebellious lifestyle that made metal popular in the first place. But in fact they were so out of touch with the reality of the average fan that when Nirvana—a real blue collar band—became popular, everyone suddenly seemed to realize how cartoonish and silly most of these bands were.", "Stop keeping track of time! The rest of us are perfectly happy thinking that people born in 2000 are still toddlers.", "You are both right, and I am here for it", "Turns out it was just doublespeak for “we’re playing less music, suckas.”", "Does electro-banjo country-metal exist?", "Even in the realm of hair metal there are tons of examples.\n\nSkid Row's \"18 and Life\":\n\n>Ricky was a young boy\n>He had a heart of stone\n>Lived 9 to 5 and he worked\n>His fingers to the bone\n>Just barely out of school\n>He came from the edge of town\n>Fought like a switchblade\n>So no one could take him down, oh no\n>He had no money\n>No, no good at home\n\nBon Jovi's \"Living on a Prayer\":\n\n>Tommy used to work on the docks, union's been on strike\n>He's down on his luck, it's tough, so tough\n>Gina works the diner all day working for her man\n>She brings home her pay, for love, for love\n\nAlso \"Welcome to the Jungle\". And remember that at the time hair metal was popular, heavy metal had been a thing for 20+ years. And even while hair metal was at it's height of popularity you have to realize that they represented only a small portion of the bands who were around at the same time. Exodus, Testament, Death, the Possessed, Anthrax, Celtic Frost, Morbid Angel, Sepultura, Obituary and lots of other great acts were around then. They were just ignored by the mainstream, because hair metal was a fad and basically just pop music. Nirvana was also basically pop music (not that it's a bad thing, who doesn't love Nirvana). All of the other bands and extreme metal acts that talked about class struggle were still pumping out albums year after year.", "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon_(band)", "Desktop version of /u/kvlt_ov_personality's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon_(band)>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)", "Your mostly right here. I would say Heavy Metal wasn't \"invented\" so much as it evolved organically out of a lot of different artists, but that's a different conversation. \n \nI think the part you are leaving out here though is that by 1987 (the time this ad is from) Heavy Metal was sadly dominated by Led Zeppelin inspired cock-rock rather than Sabbath influenced political stuff. The most mainstream and popular metal, the stuff that would've been played on MTV, was all about hair, girls, and being a larger than life personality. While there are some example of more political/working class Hair Metal, it was mostly cock rock.", "Popularity compared to other genres correct", "He used the right word", "First off, I'm worried that I'm coming off as hostile or argumentative - but want to say that I really enjoy the conversation with you and /u/ataraxic89.\n\n>I think the part you are leaving out here though is that by 1987 (the time this ad is from) Heavy Metal was sadly dominated by Led Zeppelin inspired cock-rock rather than Sabbath influenced political stuff. The most mainstream and popular metal, the stuff that would've been played on MTV, was all about hair, girls, and being a larger than life personality. While there are some example of more political/working class Hair Metal, it was mostly cock rock.\n\nThis is true, but my counter argument would be that nobody who would describe themselves as a metalhead would listen to stuff like Ratt or Poison (at least, not at this time). Also, in the commercial they interview a guy in a Destruction shirt (and there's another guy in an Exodus shirt in the background) and he's talking about how he loves fast music. They definitely didn't like hair metal. And then there's the woman before that who's like \"I just can't understand what they're saying\", she's definitely not talking about Cinderella. \n\nExodus had shirts saying \"Kill the Posers\" and it was a very common sentiment. It wasn't just MTV viewers who hated hair metal, heavy metal fans also hated hair metal. \n\nAlso, MTV was absolutely playing heavier stuff like Slayer and Morbid Angel back in the day. This commercial was basically \"Metal isn't that popular, we're gonna cram it all into one program\".", "An era of music that aged very poorly. But Twisted Sister is legit as fuck", "2017 is considered a classic music era by kids now. The rate of change is accelerating so quickly thanks to the internet, just a few months is a decades worth of new content being made", "That sounds a lot like most rap.", "When you're over 40, 2017 was like yesterday afternoon.", "I agree. Rat and Poison was called Glam Rock. They were wantabe posers.\n\nLead Zeppelin was considered hard rock or just rock.\n\nHeavy Metal was its own thing.", "I don't know about today, but in the 1980s Heavy Metal was very much a white urban Working Class affair. If your parent worked a factory or mill, if you were brought up in an environment where money was tight, if you had more than a passing encounter with the law during the course of trying to get by, if you'd been to the school of Hard Knocks, probably you listened to Heavy Metal.\n\nPrivileged white-collar kids on the track to college didn't listen to HM. The sound of rage and rebellion didn't have much appeal. They listened to pop, or New Wave, or some mild punk, light Rap or R&B, or New Romantics, etc.", "I remember every time when headbangers ball came on I was disappointed because I wouldn't be able to watch MTV for the rest of the night.", ">Their music and videos tended to flaunt a life of excess and machismo (riding around on Harleys, decked out in outlandish and expensive clothing and jewelry and hairdos, partying night and day without a care in the world) that was a commercialized caricature of the rebellious lifestyle that made metal popular in the first place.\n\nKeep in mind here that all this describes a blue-collar fantasy of the period. If you asked any 1980s-era young blue-collar rebel kid what he'd do with a briefcase full of money, and there's a good chance he'd tell you his first stop would be at the Harley dealership to get a bike and an outfit of leather and tight Harley merch, and then he'd be off to the strip club to party the remainder away. The blue-collar ethic; work hard, play hard.\n\nMetal was full of these kinds of Working Class value markers, both in the themes of nihilism, and also in their hard-partying success fantasies.", "I'm 32 and 2019 feels like decades ago. Been waiting for time to speed up but it's just not doing it. Maybe I've got too much change going on to get settled into to any routine that would allow that", "This separates the METAL from the IDIOTS, more of this! I wanna be left alone with My Metal Crew!!!!", "In the 90s I mostly avoided MTV except for the evenings when they played interesting metal and electronic music, then MTV2 launched which focused more on those in the UK.", "Fuck MTV", "Right, but that fantasy was largely manufactured and served corporate interests more so than the kids themselves: blow all your hard-earned money on status symbols, booze, cigarettes, etc. to show everyone how rebellious you are. Maybe a few of these kids would grow up to become rock stars themselves, but that wasn't the most likely scenario.\n\nI think rather than working to perpetuate this destructive ideal, bands who actually spoke to the plight of the working class and either aided in forming a sense of community among them (like the various underground scenes), presented an ideal of genuineness and individuality, or at least offered a means of catharsis were more helpful.", ">Right, but that fantasy was largely manufactured and served corporate interests more so than the kids themselves: blow all your hard-earned money on status symbols, booze, cigarettes, etc. to show everyone how rebellious you are.\n\nIf it sold, it did so because it appealed to that demographic. It was an image that this class could connect with. The music industry didn't create the demand for themes of this sort of fantasy lifestyle, they filled one that already existed.\n\nI grew up in this subculture at the time, I know what I'm talking about. I was there. When young Working Class folks, particularly males, got together with some free time and money, they liked to play rough and get wild, with loud and aggressive music to keep the mood going. It was very much outlaw biker culture-influenced. Sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, and maybe some violence thrown in to boot, was how you spent a Saturday night. Heavy Metal didn't invent this, it just filled the niche. This kind of happening with that subculture was visible since at least the 1970s, before a such thing as \"Heavy Metal\" even existed as a genre. In those early days, Black Sabbath and Alice Cooper just met the demand for an aggressive soundtrack for a subculture that was already taking shape.\n\n>I think rather than working to perpetuate this destructive ideal, bands who actually spoke to the plight of the working class and either aided in forming a sense of community among them (like the various underground scenes), presented an ideal of genuineness and individuality, or at least offered a means of catharsis were more helpful.\n\nI think you have way too idealistic a view of this socio-economic bracket of the era, and the values they lived by. For the most part they really didn't think like this. In fact, this would have really sound like some white-collar, overeducated bullshit to them.", ">If it sold, it did so because it appealed to that demographic. It was an image that this class could connect with.\n\nI wouldn't argue with this.\n\n> Sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, and maybe some violence thrown in to boot, was how you spent a Saturday night. Heavy Metal didn't invent this, it just filled the niche.\n\nSure the niche already existed, but had been shaped by prior cultural trends and music that came before heavy metal. Mass media has always had this relationship with culture, and has always worked to gain the upper hand and exploit it. Once a scene or trend emerges, corporate interests are quick to distort its image into a certain fashion or lifestyle that ensures money is going into their pockets. And they prop up the right bands to perpetuate this, until eventually you get a caricature of the original scene. Hair metal was a perfect example of this.\n\n>I think you have way too idealistic a view of this socio-economic bracket of the era, and the values they lived by. For the most part they really didn't think like this. In fact, this would really sound like some white-collar, overeducated bullshit to them.\n\nI'm not sure what era or values you're referring to exactly, but I'm pretty sure the desire for community and catharsis is universal. In the shithole town where I grew up, kids rallied around local bands who spoke their language and understood their shitty situations. This isn't some fantasy that I've made up in my head, this is how it really worked.", ">I'm not sure what era or values you're referring to exactly, but I'm pretty sure the desire for community and catharsis is universal. In the shithole town where I grew up, kids rallied around local bands who spoke their language and understood their shitty situations. This isn't some fantasy that I've made up in my head, this is how it really worked.\n\nIt may not be a fantasy for you in your situation, wherever and whenever you're from. But among Metalheads of the 1980s, the description of community ideals you give, if communicated as you describe, would have seemed alien, maybe even suspicious. But in a broader sense, yes, kids did rally around local bands who \"spoke their language\", and for the 1980s Working Class, that language was Heavy Metal.\n\nI was one of these kids/young adults in this specific time period. I went to 5 different High Schools in 3 states, and was a part of the Metal scene in each of them, then continued in that subculture for a couple of years afterward. During that time, I never met anyone who was either in a university, or on track to go to one. Anyone who declared a desire or an ability to do so, it would have been as if someone had said they wanted to be an astronaut. Nobody was employed in anything other than manual labor jobs, and other than one exception, nobody's family came from a white-collar background. The one guy I know who did come from some upper-middle class money (his dad was a banker I think) had learned to keep his mouth shut about it. Nobody wanted to hear that he had an orthodontist appointment, or that his family was taking him to Vail for a ski trip, when other people were busting ass at the mill, or risking a prison sentence, to pay rent. There was already a sense he was \"slumming\" and he was resented for it; to have reminded anyone of his background would have led to his being fully ostracized.\n\nIn the early 1990s (HM had lost popularity by then, but was not gone) when I managed to get into University myself, I received some pushback from my old peers for \"selling out\". In school, there was nobody who was into this kind of music. There was no Metal scene at the University to speak of, outside of the grudging acceptance of adjacent grunge and funk-Metal like Soundgarden and Red Hot Chili Peppers. By then the subculture and music had very much changed.\n\nIn the 1980s, it was like this with the Metal scene wherever you went, because it was a solidly white, blue collar phenomenon. Maybe some middle class suburban kids might have gotten into it for a time at the peak of its popularity, but in this period they didn't set the values or the themes.", "> Headbangers Ball was one of the most popular music shows ever to air on MTV, on the air for nearly 8 years, and for a time, it was one of the network's flagship shows. For some time in 1988 and 1989, the show was increased to 3 hours.[2] One hour added, plus Hard 60, a daily version of the ball that aired for an hour every weekday afternoon.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headbangers_Ball", "[Headbangers Ball](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headbangers_Ball) \n \n >Headbangers Ball was a music television program that consisted of heavy metal music videos airing on MTV and its global affiliates The show began on MTV on April 18, 1987, playing heavy metal music videos from both well-known and more obscure artists. The show offered (and became famous because of) a stark contrast to Top 40 music videos shown during the day. However, with the mainstream rise of alternative rock, grunge, pop punk and rap music in the 1990s, the relevance of Headbangers Ball came into question, and the show was ultimately canceled in 1995.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "Now we're just bombarded with r&b everywhere.", "The above comment was stolen from [this one](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rej0fe/mtv_1987_ad_no_more_heavy_metal_popular_demand/ho8h8qu/) elsewhere in this comment section.\n\nIt is probably not a coincidence; here is some more evidence against this user:\n\nPlagiarized \| Original\n-------- \| -----------\n[> I remember running into...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/ho8ijzi/) \| [I remember running into t...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/realx7/simpsons_paradox_in_vaccination_data/ho76o3m/)\n[> I clicked on this post...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho8iqa7/) \| [I clicked on this post be...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/rek4ty/tifu_asking_a_kid_to_look_for_a_chocolate_bar_in/ho85ww2/)\n[> Some people carry staph...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho8ipjx/) \| [Some people carry staph o...](http://np.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/refygh/tifu_by_almost_getting_killed_because_of_my_brand/ho7e51k/)\n[As a lifelong Ducks fan,...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/ho8imst/) \| [As a lifelong Ducks fan,...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re9mzw/ducks_pull_off_a_trick_shot_for_insane_goal_a/ho87a5f/)\n[Babusha has a lot of prop...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/ho8il2v/) \| [Babusha has a lot of prop...](http://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/re45vn/this_guy_shows_us_what_the_ukraine_is_lile_and/ho7ivdg/)\n\nbeep boop, I'm a bot -\|:] It is this bot's opinion that [/u/NoTaxfg](https://np.reddit.com/u/NoTaxfg/) should be banned for karma manipulation. Don't feel bad, they are probably a bot too.\n\nConfused? Read the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/reply-guy-bot/comments/n9fpva/faq/?plagiarist=NoTaxfg) for info on how I work and why I exist.", "But you people who have sadistic thinkings is every metal's not about that it talks about evil people like you trying to shut everything down you're evil your evil", "Did some of these other idiots that think they are high school dropouts Rob zombie's almost a f****** billionaire assholes okay and how many other ones are almost me and millionaires getting close to being a billionaire you guys can't even get out of freaking college without not knowing how to do anything screw you in your high school dropout I'm wanting I'm a multi-millionaire", "Good heavy metal sells itself, MTV had no choice but to play it to some extent and when the supply of heavy metal dried up MTV gave it the middle finger. Until a few little bands like GnR, Metallica and the grunge movement happened and they, again sucked on the teat of metal but called it something else, finally exposing themselves as the lowest common denominator whores they always were by airing the worst of the worst reality shows around.", "I really wish I could find some old VHS or DVD copies of this show :(", "Exactly! Bullshit reality shows took over and now look at us. Nothing shocks us anymore." ]	78	videos	MTV 1987 ad "No more heavy metal!" popular demand
https://youtu.be/F9TUlBz19kU	/r/videos/comments/rekb7s/darth_vader_vs_space_marine_animation_looks_great/	[ "This is so well done! Thank you very much for this it was absolutely entertaining.", "I know nothing about Warhammer. Is this video accurate?", "no, darth vader has never fought any space marines in warhammer", "hope on over to /r/grimdank if you want to discuss power levels of various franchises with people who take it WAY too seriously and prefer to ruin the fun for everyone than just enjoy a small video like this.", "Its certainly an animation.", "A lot of people like to compare power levels and have discussions over it. How is it ruining the fun for everyone. It's only ruining fun for some people.\n\nThis video can be very much enjoyed as it is. And it can spark the power level comparison. Providing fun for everyone.", "I fully agree, its when people take their respective hobby/favorite franchise too serious and become belligerent over it. Have seen it happen quite a few times on grimdank.\n\nExcept for Pokemon, everyone agrees they are OP", "I wish animators would study true lens effects a little more. This video is full of weird and unnatural bokeh.", "Imo no. A space marine would stomp vader without much problem. Space marines are seriously OP. The lore around them is pretty cool to dig into if u like scifi.\n\nVader is sweet. But warhammer stuff is just over the top in nearly every way; vader is just from the wrong universe to stand a chance.", "Random Blueberry Librarian would have taken the win about 9/10 times against Vader. As strong as Force users tend to be portrayed, they're small change compared to high-level psykers.", "I would say mostly. There are many factors to consider.\n\nAstartes (Space Marine) armor is made of Ceramite, Adamantium and Plasteel, and I think it could easily hold a lightsaber blow unless it was a direct and very strong thrust (like what we see in the video).\n\nSpace Marines have a bunch of extra organs, including 2 hearts. For that reason they can often shrug off what to us would be ridiculously deadly wounds. I don't think it would be even unrealistic for him to keep on fighting normally after getting that stab through the chest. Having said that, its also entirely possible the lightsaber did far too extensive damage and it crossed some biological threshold.\n\nThe Ultramarine (the specific chapter of Space Marines) in question is a Librarian, meaning he's a sanctioned Psyker (can tap into the Warp to get magic powers. The Warp is like Hyperspace if Hyperspace was also hell). In a situation of incredible physical stress like dying he could end up overdoing in the warp power and end up blowing up, or worse, getting possessed. Librarians go through incredible mental training to prevent this from happening, but tapping into Vader's memories and connection to the Force could maybe affect him negatively.\n\nOverall Warhammer 40k is a universe where everything is over the top, in the sense that a regular Space Marine is already a world ending threat to most franchises. A Space Marine Librarian is worthy of a goddamn nuke to the head. Were it any Force wielder I would give the fight to the Ultramarine, but considering this is Darth Vader...\n\n*Inquisition seal of approval.*", "I like this alot", "Technically capable, but bland and generic.", "I love this comment! It makes me want to read more on the WH40K lore, but I wouldn't know where to start. Any suggestions?\n\nI've played some of the videogames, and I really love the WH aesthetics. The Space Marines look awesome!", "I have had a few people suggest Eisenhorn books to me when I asked about starting 40k stuff.", "I would start with some youtube videos, there's a lot of good lore vids. https://youtu.be/KyPjE1Sn-Ts", "Keep in mind, that was just one space marine. I think warhammer might be a bit more metal than star wars can handle.", "eisenhorn hooks or the horus heresy. HH warning if you start - bunch of techno bable in the first 30m so it throws off readers alot. but after that it gets extremely easy to read as any other book.", "really depends on if its book vader or movie vader because book vader can pull down starships from orbit with ease so 1 could argue hes got some promise", "Considering space marines already fight people in their universe with force like powers I'd say they would be well equipped to take on vader.", "What I love about 40K is not just the coolness of it, but how big time fans talk about it. The sheer \"crank the knob to OH SHIT!!\" that they talk about Space Marines and The Warp.", "Wrong fighting style for Vader , like really really wrong", "There is nothing fun about arguing about imaginary power levels of imaginary characters \n\nI’m guessing you’re not aware of the dragon ball z fandom", "I was wondering about book vs movie vader as i have not read the books.", "As others have commented, Eisenhorn or HH.\n\nSpend a little while either at lore videos or the wikia to get a sense of the world. Then dive in.\n\nHorus Heresy is about the big civil war in 30k which basically left the galaxy the way it is. Don't be intimidated by the massive number of Horus Heresy books. The first 5 make up a nice series (or first 3 if you really want to condense it). You can chose and pick books from that series since they cover different aspects from the war.\n\nEisenhorn is about an inquisitor, and gives you a good look at the galaxy from a regular human perspective.", "My money would have been on the marine. They aren't just slopped into that suit. Vader's had it on for a few years. Our librarian friend has had it on for centuries.", "better than any fight in the sequels", "Yeah I mean, does star wars have a planet that is burning millions of souls a minute so they can communicate across planets? Does it have a gigantic planet that's just a big fat guy? don't think so.", "Bro. Whenever I run into Warhammer 40k comments like this I just geek the fuck out. So much lore.", "The true way to view the star wars universe is not to think of the books and all the other stuff as non-cannon because of the disney sequels, but to look at the disney sequels as non-cannon", "It's only ruining the fun if we're playing D&D and you want to turn a 30 second combat into a 12 hour debate on some esoteric rule that ultimately the DM has the final say over anyway, so shut the fuck up Berry let's just play some god damn D&D you fuckhead.", "Depends on how complex the imaginary world is. Power Rangers? Yeah not so fun. Warhammer 40k? Well that's like 40 years of detailed lore over hundreds of books, video games, tabletop editions, and even a movie or two", "Yeah but how much of that 40k lore is canon and accepted by everyone. I’ve watched videos of 40k lore and it seems half the stuff they talked about are just educated guesses", "If the Emperor had a Text to Speech Device\n\nLorehammer or Yorehammer", "The messiness of the past in the 'historical documents' is kind of the point. https://youtu.be/KyPjE1Sn-Ts?t=464", "That’s pretty lame", "no u", "BatChest", "The fights in the original trilogy were so much better. I could watch the [first Luke and Vader confrontation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRcUdD5nthc) over and over.", "This dude is going to get sued by everyone. Disney and GW both have some long divk legal teams.", "That’s how I got my friends into it. That said using those books to introduce someone to Warhammer is like using a strong sea to teach someone to swim.", "Don't let Mr Workshop find out about this.", "And yet somehow no match for some green boyz and a boom-boom dipped in the right colour paint.", "Not even close.\n\nIf for no other reason than even the smallest marine would be head and shoulders above Vader in armor. And they can move at superhuman levels a Jedi might struggle with.", "A) Isn't he a little short for a Space Marine?\n\nB) I get it. A force weapon fighting against a Force Weapon. Ha ha.", "Who actually cares?", "Nerds.", "Be jealous lesser nerd." ]	49	videos	Darth Vader vs. Space Marine Animation looks great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d_KzGfo2lU	/r/videos/comments/relayv/jackie_chan_why_the_action_star_is_hated_in_hong/	[ "The best comment I saw from the Youtube comments \n\nMad John: \n\nWorked on Rumble with Jackie in the 90s when he was actively trying to find a way out of HK before the handover. He spent a number of years shooting extremely extended film productions in Canada and Australia as a way of seeking immigration status in those countries if he was forced to flee. \n\nThe thing to remember is that HK cinema actors were almost universally always in a state of continual careful hostage negotiations with those who saw them as product to be exploited. \nBefore the communist party took back control this was primarily by the triads and led to an environment where kidnapping of family members was a common method of contract negotiations. As a result many major HK established stars can be seen in cheap exploitation flicks, invariably featuring lurid rape scenes, in the mid to late 90s precisely as a tactic to gt a third cousin or nephew released from a cellar somewhere.\n\nJackie was largely protected from this by his connection with the ‘man with the hat’ who ran golden harvest \nIn fact I was on set with Jackie the day Canada was ruled out as a viable escape route after the ‘man with the hat’ was held by Canadian customs at the airport and denied entry, because Canadian customs stupidly decided people from asia didn’t shoot films here ( even though we were 3 months into an 6 month production schedule). \n\nBasically my best guess is that Jackie got trapped, he lingered too long because of the money he was making and failed to secure a way to get his investments out, and make no mistake Jackie knows this .. fame, public image, everything, is about money .. that’s all. \nThe point this became obvious to me was when he came out against his own son in relation to pot use. I never got stoned with Jackie but I did get drunk, and we were in Vancouver so getting stoned was a very common thing amongst both local and HK crew and it was discussed.. Jackie was not anti-pot in any meaningful way .. but Jackie has a deep fear of being broke and destitute .. and its not an unreasonable fear, .. so Jackie will do what ever is possible to prevent that. \n\nSo .. has Jackie sold out the ‘ideals’ of pre handover HK .. ?\n\nno …. Jackie is the embodiment of those ideals .. lets have no illusions pre handover HK was an exploitative society \n\nSo if that means if he has to spew disingenuous crap and sell out the pro democracy movement to keep his financial status he’s do it .. … he did the same to his own son.", "whatever happened to Panama papers that he was in?", "My first thought watching this was that the Chinese government would have no issue threatening him in exchange for projected support.", "That is a very fascinating comment that I'm really inclined to believe. Setting aside if that person was actually a crew member that worked with Jackie, Hong Kong in the 80s and 90s was NOT a good place to be in at all. It was one of the biggest tax havens, drug trafficking gateways, and human trafficking hubs of Asia. A lot of money got laundered in Hong Kong, and it was at one point one of the biggest gambling destinations of the world. The government now effectively operates a monopoly on gambling establishments, deeming anything not government owned illegal. \n\nThe movie stars acting in sleazy cheap ripoff films is absolutely true. Even Jackie has starred in a few exceptionally low budget films in the late 80s way below his pay grade (that you won't find on any mainstream websites). I don't think he swallows the mainland bullshit. He's just old and tired and will toe the line to stay the fuck away from problems. His international movie productions really did ramp WAY up when the negotiations of Hong Kong's handover to China were finalized, unsurprisingly. He spent a few years afterwards extensively filming around the world for a prolonged period of time before just dropping off the face of the Earth and returning to filming in Hong Kong, and now mainland China.", "Lol this is entirely made up - I am very familiar with Hong Kong and it's history. It sounded ridiculous, so I looked it up and I couldn't find any such claims on Google. In the 90s Hong Kong was a British colony with an extremely well established legal system and very rich. You can't just kidnap people and get away with it and certainly not in exchange for getting actors into movies lmao", "Little Chun sold his soulless body to the party, and turned out to be just another communist who likes money.", "All those actors that come out in support of the CCP are just disgusting. They already have all the money, fame and influence someone could dream of and all they can think to do with it is to support the worst dictatorship in history. Fuck you, Jackie Chan.", "Hahahahaha reading your post after his is like listening to some garage veteran yelling at me \"look it up!\"\n\nThanks for debunking this guy, your sources are killer and your explanations even more indepth!", "Sorry but it's just a bunch of non-sense. I lived in Hong Kong for almost a year. I have never heard of crime like this happening there. It's one of the safest places in the world (literally - look up the rankings). This guy in the YouTube comments has just a completely vivid imagination and bamboozled you. Just think for yourself if anyone would commit a kidnapping to get an actor into a movie - lmao.\n\nAlso claiming Jacky Chan couldn't get his investments out - haha. I have a bank account in Hong Kong and you can just move money around freely to this day. There are no restrictions whatsoever and there never have been. Every single claim shows this guy has no clue about Hong Kong and has definitely not worked with Jacky Chan in the 90s on a movie set. I have no idea who these people are who make up such a long comment from scratch but its pretty funny to me and I dont really care if you believe me that its totally fake", "Jackie Chan says he wants to join the CCP in an official capacity, fuck Jackie Chan", "nice", "Rich people hid money so they didn't have to pay taxes. A reporter was executed for exposing their offshore accounts.\n\nThe various governments of the world ignored it, because rich people.", "Yeah, say \"fuck you\" to a government that will literally disappear you or your family, easy to say when you and your family don't live there.", "let's not be hyperbolic, north korea is the worst dictatorship in history, not china", "No, just typical \"i got mine\" attitude from JC. He's made millions and lives in a country that made him rich, but he thinks the poor rubes that watch his movies should pay taxes instead of him.\n\nJust typical asshole celebrity shit.", "For starters, you could stop actively supporting them very vocally and stop publicly condemning the people fighting for justice and freedom. I have lived in both Hong Kong and China by the way.", "Yeah wild how Chinese people support the Chinese government that's done so much for them.", "Just tax avoidance like most mega-rich celebrities and heads of state named in the Panama Papers. He wasn’t up to anything shadier or more nefarious than that. Not to diminish the rich not paying their fair share, just pointing out he wasn’t implicated in a racketeering scheme or anything like that.", "It is wild to me how condescending Redditors are to Chinese people who support their government.", "Oh my fuck.. the narrative that people won't let go of. Daphne Caruana Galizia was ONE reporter out of hundreds working to expose tax evasion. She was specifically concerned with corruption within Malta as she was highly critical of corruption there, hence being murdered but she was not working alone. The ICIJ continues to work on exposing corruption worldwide. You can see [here](https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/what-happened-after-the-panama-papers/) some of the impact from the Panama papers.\n\nStop spreading this BS narrative that the lone hero was silenced and all work on bringing down the evil doers was stopped in it's tracks. It's simply not true. It sure does indulge a need to feel down trodden and helpless as a badge of honor but it doesn't do anyone any good and it's an insult to the people who are still dedicated and making personal sacrifices for the cause.", "That's so absurd - CCP has done nothing for Jackie Chan. He has built his career in Hong Kong under British rule, and then Hollywood in the US. He owes everything he has to the freedoms provided that he now wants to deny regular HK citizens. You're an uninformed idiot.", "> It is ongoing and nothing is being done about it.\n\nThat! That is not true! What more needs to be said?! I didn't misconstrue anything.", "Spoken like a true kiss-ass of r/sino.", "It's not condescending if someone can objectively see what the said government is doing.", "If you needed any proof that Capitalism is inherently authoritarian, and that it can and will destroy democracy this is it. China is not communist and American propaganda (yes movies are propaganda, they're literally the main reason many in foreign countries have high opinions of the US) is now being bent to a foreign country's whims based purely on ticket sales.\n\nThrow Jackie on the pile with Cena. We should start calling these people Piglets because they have unwavering support for Pooh\n\nEdit - enjoy the China pandering racism of these [Star Wars posters](https://variety.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/star-wars-china-poster-controversy.jpg). This is a movie produced by Disney. The same Disney that has managed to change US copyright law into virtual immortality. Corporations have a significant power over the government. When those corporations start seeing another country as their primary target expect more of this. \nI'll also point towards the movement towards subscription service where you never actually own anything but have to pay constantly for access to anything.", "You mean to say all those people and heads of state suddenly stopped avoiding taxes? Nah, they're still at it bro.", "This is the worst explanation that sums up reading the title and a couple emotionally charged top comments on reddit.", "It's also the fact that he justifies their actions and disowned his gay child but go off king.", "Neither socialism nor capitalism are \"inherently authoritarian\" but all societal systems are vulnerable to authoritarianism. \n\nBoth have the capacity to be made into authoritarian regimes. As do, as far as I can tell, all other societal systems. Even anarchy.\n\nEdit: Now, I suppose we could say different systems are more or less vulnerable, sure. But imo it would be very hard to make any kind of objective assessment of this. How vulnerable, exactly? In some quantifiable way? \n\nLacking that, all we have is our subjective intuitions on it. Which are, for lack of a better word, fucking worthless. Humans are really bad at estimating this kind of thing accurately. Or so history seems to imply.", "/r/sino is leaking", "So basically Jackie Chan is an avid supporter of China's communist party and hes anti democratic, yet still enjoys the lavish lifestyle democracy has allowed him in the west. \n\nA hypocrite and a PoS. Got it.", "Do you support America despite our country sometimes doing awful things?", "This would also be true of America.", "This is no different from some deranged Hillary Clinton fan calling anyone who dislikes her a \"Russian bot.\"", "Heart touching documentary on how Anarchy can envelope into all out capitalism.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Aqfp5iMnw", "He didn't say that, he just said that it's not true that nothing was being done (per his link). Obviously the overall issue has not abated dramatically, but I think its unfair to paint acepukas as saying something that he did not.", "I think its more the government can take it all away at the drop of a hat, don't get me wrong im sure there is some genuine shilling but living in a place the government can sieze all your assets and make you disapear for months I think does have an effect on how you present yourself.", "I would bet Nazi Germany. But apples to oranges.", "Ok so what you're saying is that yet another actor isn't what people want them to be?", "Idk, its pretty different. \n\nIn the bot one, that is accusing the person of not being a \"real person\". That their opinion is just the product of a psi-op by a foreign nation. \n\nSaying you are from /r/sino or its sister subs is more me saying that it would fit in there. Not that you arent a real person who really thinks this. \n\nI mean, of course, I think the pro CCP views of people on /r/sino are fucking nuts, but I dont think they are \"fake\" either.", "Take an upvote. Sure let him kiss ass, get his son to safety, but it shows he has no spine and will forever be known as a fucking coward. What a way to waste a lifetime of goodwill and success. \n\nJon Cena takes it to a whole other level though.", "> If you needed any proof that Capitalism is inherently authoritarian,\n\nIf you ever needed confirmation that a person doesn't know what they are talking about, they say things like this.\n\nThe fact that you are blaming capitalism is proof enough you're clueless and parroting things you have no idea about. Stop doing that, it's a bad look and everyone sees it.", "Comparing US to China is pretty ignorant.", "Fucking POS. Utter scum Jackie. Can’t get any lower than betraying your own people.", "Why?", "Because he's a sellout.", "That's just all governments. All governments can do that.", "Dont forget he's homophobic.", "Wait, so he's not a sell out because he was against his own and freeing his people because... Money? Is that not the definition of a sell out?", "> The various governments of the world ignored it, because rich people.\n\nSure, if by ignore you mean started [collectively passing legislation to close many of those tax havens.](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/business/ireland-minimum-corporate-tax.html) \n\nNow this is the part where redditors pile on to say that since it doesn't completely eliminate the problem overnight it doesn't count.", "https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/business/ireland-minimum-corporate-tax.html", "That sounds to me like Jackie Chan didn't sell out his ideals because... he never held any ideals to begin with (aside from make money)\n\nWhich may be different, but still bad", "It seems pretty common for celebrities or people of influence to speak out against drug use. They’re never in full support except for legalization.\n\nIn the least they’ll make comments like if that person needed help instead of turning to substance abuse I wish they would come to me first. \n\nBut using drugs and speaking out against the use of drugs aren’t directly opposed ideaologies.", "I feel like jackie is just threatened… his views are probably much more different lmao", "You're also a nobody. \n\nWhile Chan is a public figure, that was beloved by millions. People like that don't have the liberty to say that out loud for millions to see", "I find it funny all these posters lamenting him for not taking a stand. As if they’d be so brave when the government can and has literally disappeared their ass and also prevent them from leaving.", "Except it wasn't one country doing something. It was multiple countries enacting policy that targeted one country. Did you actually read it? This also isn't the only effort underway. Global leaders aren't just doing nothing, as previously stated.", "Because the US doesnt disappear people for saying they dont like the government", "I mean it is absolutely more complicated than that. Yeah, China doesn't have the free speech absolutism that America has. But look at Assange. If you are inconvenient enough you absolutely will be dealt with. Being able to scream into the online void doesn't change this. It's a security blanket.", "> I lived in Hong Kong for almost a year. I have never heard of crime like this happening there.\n\nHoly cow, you are a moron.", "People take for granted their freedoms in the US. Yes we have a lot of our own political bullshit and half the country is constantly at arms with the other half. But amongst all that, we can say what we want, do what we want, have a voice in who leads us, have a say in the direction of our policy, have a choice to travel freely and explore and go almost anywhere we please. Yes, minimum wage sucks but it could also be a lot worse. As could working conditions, and air quality, and environmental regulations, and all kinds of things. \n\nBut if you look at china, where people can hardly see through the smog, on their way to a job they likely hate, where they will be payed pennies on the dollar, and not to mention that YOUR CHILDREN, some not even age 10, will be right there next to you, slaving away so you can afford to put a modicum of food on your table. Dont like this life? That sucks, because you have no say in changing it, and complaining publicly gets you beaten at best. Life in the US and China are not even close, youd have to be extremely ignorant or intentionally trying to stir up bullshit to think so.", "Lol adorable that you edited your comment after trying to be condescending when you now admit you didn’t even read the article. Thank you for demonstrating you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.", "He enjoys the lavish lifestyle over there too.", "You have no idea how organized crime works and you just doubled down on being a dumb fool. There is a lot of things happening in the shadows that you will NEVER know about. Especially if you’re not a local.", "This is lacking perspective. Yes, there is lots of poverty in China. They've also taken great steps to address this, for which people are grateful. And that smog? That's us. They produce what we want and they eat the pollution. Because we don't want that here. That's just reality.\n\nAnd don't get it twisted around. Just because you can complain online doesn't mean you have much of a say in what's going on. The rich elites will continue to do what they want. And they really have no loyalty to their country.", "So your counter argument to me is \"we cause polution by ordering things\" which, lol, no it isnt. Many countries have mass industry with no where near chinas polution, its lack of regulation that is to blame. \n\nWhen I say have a say, what I mean is elections, something china \"has\" but not really", "China doesn't have a Guantanamo Bay as far as I know. Most of the people there never even set foot in our country. Never see any protests about it either so people must be ok with it.", "Bro, I lived in Shanghai for a week. If you want to be educated on China just ask.", "The whole country is guantanamo bay", "Not seeing any similarities between the two largest world powers is also kind of ignorant.", "It's just a fact. They produce stuff on the cheap that we don't want produced here. That creates pollution.\n\n>Many countries have mass industry with no where near chinas polution, its lack of regulation that is to blame.\n\nChina is a HUGE economy and lots of people. Look at this chart and take into context how many people live in these countries.\n\nhttps://climatetrade.com/which-countries-are-the-worlds-biggest-carbon-polluters/\n\n>When I say have a say, what I mean is elections, something china \"has\" but not really\n\nCould you not say the same of America? Are Redditors not constantly freaking out about their democracy being under attack?", "What you are describing is not reality. People in China can choose careers, go to school, and all the same things people do in America. I'm sure there are children who work but that is not the norm at all. I wouldn't want to live there because freedom of speech is important to me but you seem to have fallen for propaganda. Average income in China has more than tripled over the last 10 years, the lives of average citizens has never been better. \n\nThis is like people who think Africa is all mud huts.", "I'm biased with him. The first film I remember as a kid was a Jackie chan one (hk era ones) so I've just had this like of him that biases me to his things he does in China", "Redditors freaking out aboit their democracy being under attack have no concept of what democracy being under attack means. \n\nThe number of people who live there is irrelevant if theres no regulation in the first place, with up to 70% of companies just not giving a shit, and there being 0 enforcement due to the scale of not-give-a-fuckness", "Very interesting. I wonder if he sold out back then and believes it now or just perpetually scared", "Chinese government probably has him on leash. He either complies or loses everything", "When will rich chinese people learn to invest outside of china and then move out of china. Think about how funny it would be to have half their rich people leave at all at the same time.", "Jackie", "\"The life of the average citizen has never been better\" isnt much of a bar looking at chinas history.\n\nChina has 42 results on [this page ](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print) alone, and [studies](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print)from as recent as 2019 show that atleast 8% of children 10+ are forced to endure this labour (about 7 million children, 7 million too many)\n\nSo no, this isnt history. This isnt happening today, right now.", "Jackie Chan aside, I'm so sick of all of these American actors simping for China. That's like going into Nazi Germany in the 30s in my eyes. Hypocrites and traitors. Fuck China.", "No, OP is saying he was always a sell out, and nothing changed.", "Reddit stopped caring once they found out one of the celebrities implicated for financial fraud was Emma Watson.\n\nThen suddenly is was “don’t blame the celebrities, blame the banks that ummm… banks are bad! We love you Emma `（ꏿ ω ꏿ)`!”", "Ahh okay, gotcha.", "How has 'democracy' allowed him a lifestyle? That doesn't make any sense.\n\nHis lifestyle comes from him being paid for movies. There are plenty of wealthy people in China.", "He's a CCP shill that threw his son out on the streets. Fuck him.", "Literally just Google \"effects of Panama papers\" instead of spouting this shit, a ton of things happened as a direct result of the leaks and is continuing to happen, plus she wasn't killed for exposing it, she was reporting of the leak the other people had found.", "Not clear on why governments would ignore it. It's their money being hidden away", "And Chris Tucker was in the Epstein flight logs. More like Rough Hour.", "Oh, they're investing outside of China, alright. Just not moving out. Vancouver BC real-estate is like 95% owned by Chinese oligarchs at this point. And so many US utilities. SO MANY UTILITIES!!!", "Don't forget these people: she probably didn't even know. Her financial people did it without even telling her.\n\nSure they did.", "I thought Vancouver passed a law preventing the sale of real-estate to foreign investors fairly recently.", "Because they were the ones doing it. So youre right, its their money being hidden away", "too little too late imo, at least in the context of my lifespan", "There's a difference between not taking a stand and being a mouthpiece tho", "> His lifestyle comes from him being paid for movies\n\nYeah so, movies made in Hollywood....within a democracy? Hmmm.", "\"He's not what I would be, if I had that levle of success\" /s", "But Jackie Chan? He obviously knew about it; what a cheat!\n\nThe mental gymnastics are astounding.", "Damn that is really sad he feels that way. But I would probably say the same shit, if not nothing at all. They just make you disappear over there for saying bad shit about the government.", "When they demand you be a mouthpiece it becomes harder to say that.", ">Yeah so uh, movies made in Hollywood....within a democracy?\n\nYou do realize movies can be made in any country without regards to the type of government they have? This is truly an invalid point", "Sad thing is this showcases that he has no confidence in being even a marginally less successful person, so he makes himself vulnerable to \"drinking the koolaid\".\n\nSo I will downvote and boycot any entertainer that supports CCP / the treatment of HK. Doesn't matter if \"well, they're naturally selfish, don't take it personally\".", "Yes I am aware thank you. You do realize that it was in Hollywood that Chan rose to prominence, so I fail to see what point you are trying to make. You truly are making zero sense.", "The Panama Papers - whatever happened there.", "This is where you're wrong mate. Jackie was already famous and made his breakthrough in Hong Kong.", "these are the type of political videos that r/videos allow?", "murdered.\n\n“Execution” implies overt* state sponsorship….", "Famous in Hong Kong =/= World Famous. He Has made most of his money within a democracy, therefore he has enjoyed its benefits, while at the same time denouncing democracy. The point that you are trying to make is that he makes his money outside of a democracy as if to wash him of his hypocrisy, that is completely false. So what is it exactly that you are trying to say? Are you saying that he didn't make any money in america? Or are you being disingenuous on purpose? I think the latter.", "tl;dw: He's a CCP shill", "She is weak woman you see, she cannot understand money you see?", "But the result is the same. They will snatch your ass if you don't do as they say. Best to try and just stay under the radar, but when you reach a certain amount of fame, it's impossible.", "Fuck sake /r/Sino is leaking in here", "He was already famous worldwide except for North America. \n\n[Up until January 1995, his films grossed over HK$500 million (US$70 million) in Hong Kong,[53] ¥39 billion (US$489 million) in Japan,[43] 11.5 million box office admissions in France,[54] and 9.9 million box office admissions in Germany.[55] Despite his success in Asia and Europe, he was not very successful in North America, where he had only two wide releases as a leading actor, The Big Brawl and The Protector, grossing US$9.51 million (US$32 million adjusted for inflation).](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan#1980%E2%80%931987:_Commercial_success_in_the_action_comedy_genre)\n\nThe point is that the type of government has no bearing on his lavish lifestyle. He would've made money in China or the US.", "Jackie Chan \n \n [1980–1987: Commercial success in the action comedy genre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan#1980–1987:_Commercial_success_in_the_action_comedy_genre) \n \n >Willie Chan became Jackie's personal manager and firm friend, and remained so for over 30 years. He was instrumental in launching Chan's international career, beginning with his first forays into the American film industry in the 1980s. His first Hollywood film was The Big Brawl in 1980. Chan then played a minor role in the 1981 film The Cannonball Run, which grossed over US$100 million worldwide.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", ">invest outside of china and then move out of china\n\nAre they also taking their parents, children, grand kids, cousins, family friends, friends ect ect?\n\nIts all fine and good to say they should leave but it's way more complicated than that.", "He's a guy that has manic fear of losing his status and money. He only fears the CCP as normal people are bound by morals. He chose that it is not his fight to fight. His son didn't understand this stance and he feared that he may not be able to inherit his wealth if he continues his path pro freedom so he threw him out and hoped that he learns to make his own money if the CCP takes everything from him. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nIs the explanation that let's him shine in the best light. But even that is not very good. Fuck him.", "Most figures in the entertainment industry who were named in the Panama Papers got a pass. Bono and Bob Geldoff caught more flak than others because of their philanthropic reputations contrasted with the hypocrisy of off-shore banking. It was mostly just snark though. Jackie got more heat than most because it added to the erosion of his once sterling reputation (at least with Western audiences) that had already started years prior when he declared he cut his son out of his will after he got hit with a pot charge. Then the Panama Papers. Then his continued support of the CCP throughout the Uyghur concentration camp stuff and the Hong Kong protests, etc. Tax avoidance is not sexy enough to get the masses frothing. It’s a massive problem but to conceptualize the harm it does requires boring math. The people want pee-tapes, prostitutes, and pedos.", "Typical Straw-man argument then. You are completely ignoring the fact that he made BILLIONS (adjusting for inflation) in the western world. So are you going to sit there and deny that he has enjoyed the benefits of a democracy. What you smoking?", "> The various governments of the world ignored it, because rich people.\n\nIt's so tiring seeing people just make up cynical nonsense on Reddit. With zero sources. It's low effort, and entirely untrue.\n\nA lot of stuff happened as a result of the Panama Papers. Did you follow the outcomes? I doubt it.", "Bullshit.", "Exactly. Political issues breakdown when you get to the personal level.\n\nYou can't blame the individual for doing anything it takes to keep them and theirs safe.\n\nI think about this with the US - Mexico border. Yes, border security is vitally important. Human trafficking, drugs, guns, cartel movement, all things that need to be shut down at the border.\n\nBut I will never blame a family trying to flee that situation in Mexico to come to America. Because I'd break every law and cross any border to keep my family safe.\n\nSame for this and other people in China. Fuck the Chinese government, the internment camps, the social credit system designed to suppress and disappear undesirables. But I'll never blame the individual being a mouthpiece in support of it, because the unseen gun at their back and at the heads of their loved ones is very real.\n\nThe world isn't black and white. There's oceans of grey on the world political stage.", "Plenty of actors just as famous as him from China haven’t said shit.\n\nIt would be very odd that they would force just him to make these statements.", "Pro slavery China puppet", "He could just say nothing.", "Agree. But those wealthy people in China own nothing. Unlike a democracy, everything they have belongs to the PRC and, in a moment's notice, the PRC can and often does, take it all away.", "haven't watched it yet, but i'm going to say because he's a big supporter of the CCP.", "Lol his total wealth is at most $400 million, what are you smoking?\n\nYou seem to have trouble understanding very simply points, so lets go about it a different way. What aspects of democracy allowed Jackie to live a lavish livestyle that is not found in other types of government?", "they can't invest outside of china without the ccp's consent. there are limits to how much money you can move out of china every year. i don't know the current limit is now, but back in the early 2000's it was only like 10 000 usd per year. there was a time when there was a loophole that allowed chinese people to buy property outside of china without running afoul of that limit, but that's since been adjusted. they can buy property outside of china but they have to pay the ccp a large tax or something or other. basically only the really well connected or very rich will be allowed to purchase property outside of china. as for investments that's still limited by the cap on how much money you can take out of china each year.", "fuck chna", "Jackie’s son lives in China, they made Jackie personally apologise for his son getting caught with weed, it kept his son from doing 20 years in prison. I don’t think Jackie chan will take a stand against China due to the backlash it would have on him.", "Jackie’s son lives in China, they made Jackie personally apologise for his son getting caught with weed, it kept his son from doing 20 years in prison. I don’t think Jackie chan will take a stand against China due to the backlash it would have on him. \n\n\nlife is not some bullshit game half of reddit thinks it is.", ">I couldn't find any such claims on Google.\n\n^(Well, that settles it, then. I mean, it's not like info on Google is biased or anything... /s)", "Im bored of this mate youre still not seeing the point. He cannot denounce democracy if its made him a fortune. Hes a hypocrite either way you look at it. I cant see how you can spin this otherwise unless you are actually shilling for the CCP.", "To be fair I’ve read more than a few stories about managers, family, money people, whoever, stealing millions from celebrities without them knowing. Many rich people trust others with their money. Who they trust is still their responsibility, but it is possible that they have no idea where their money is or what their money is doing.", "I'm not defending her as an adult. But as a child actor, I'm highly doubtful she had much say in that, definitely would not have understood it. Probably her parents controlling that.", ">He cannot denounce democracy if its made him a fortune.\n\nBecause it didn't. What aspects of democracy made him a fortune that other types of government couldn't?", "Black sites say hello.", "He made dozens of Hong Kong and Chinese movies dude. Significantly more than he ever made in the USA. He's been acting since the 1960s, he didn't get into an English language film until the 1990s.\n\nHe is first and foremost an HK/Chinese actor. His fame in the West is secondary.\n\nIt isn't just America that makes successful movies, and it isn't just Americans who watch movies either.", "Yeah, I lost it with that guy. I used to be a big fan.", "That's is a complete lie. I have no idea why you would think that.\n\nEven if China were an actual functioning communist state, personal property still exists in communism.\n\nIf you are talking about the Chinese governments ability to seize assets (which is something they absolutely do, no doubt), this is in no way unique to them and a pretty common practice in the USA.", "Just a coincidence", "They arent so obvious about disappearing their own citizens then", "no one is as famous as him, dude is easily the most recognizable global movie star. You think anyone has heard of di caprio in a poor household in India?? but ppl have heard and watched jackie. The fame is not even comparable.", "Uh, he was mad wealthy long before he was famous in \"the west\", and he lives a lavish life in China that's better than what 99.999% of people in democratic countries will ever experience. In fact, I'm 100% certain that the average American would gladly accept being rich in China over being in their current position in the US. \n\nAlso, it's easy for you to make it out that he's an \"avid supporter of China's communist party\" when you have nothing at risk. Go live there and come out against it and see how quickly you and your family disappears. Remember when Jack Ma (way more famous, way richer, way more connected than Chan) disappeared for a while? \n\nSuch is life in China.", "They have millions of dollars. If they care for their family they will make it happen no matter what. Also they are leaving China not the \nNorth Korea.", "He is hated because he supported Chinese government during Hong Kong's Pro democracy protest.", "I love his acting and stunts, however the amount of people in the YT comments defending him for openly supporting the CCP is nuts.", "Housing market prices have skyrocketed in the last 10 years thanks to foreign investors.", "Don’t you dare blame my childhood crush !! Lol", "Jackie is a B list celebrity in mainland China.", "Okay I love you", "He never had principles to begin with.\n\n\nFrom 2009.\n\n> \"I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not,\" Chan said. \"I'm really confused now. If you're too free, you're like the way Hong Kong is now. It's very chaotic. Taiwan is also chaotic....I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want.\"\n\n\n~https://6abc.com/archive/6768548/", "He isn't that big in China.", "He is not hated in Hong Kong. His point of view easily has as many supporters as detractors. \n\nAnd for those who say he has no choice in the matter, this simply isn't true. You can find his support for the chinese government all the way back to the early 90s when he had little stake financially or politically. These days he didn't need to say anything he doesn't want to. Most chinese movie stars stay well away politically aside from the occasional support for the government/country on their version of twitter. \n\nMany people see this kind of my country right or wrong as a natural form of patriotism. People shouldn't pretend to be abhor by that. It is as common here as anywhere else.", "I'm curious, what is \"their fair share\"?", "What would y'all do if they have watch on your families and can make them disappear at any time? Do you really think everything is so simple? So easy to make judgments off a 12min video.", "It’s also important to note Galizia was specifically working on corruption between the Maltese government with the Maltese Mafia* something she had been doing for almost 20 years by that point. With numerous previous threats, assaults and incidents against her. Which is obviously bad but nobody alleged a shadowy grand multinational conspiracies when Don Bolles was murdered.", ">They have millions of dollars\n\n\nIn Chinese banks controlled by the CCP who can claim their assets at any time...\n\n\n>Also they are leaving China not the North Korea\n\nSo have you seen Peng Shuai's lately?\n\nYou seem entirely deluded when it comes to the freedoms of individuals in China.", "That's what's so frustrating about Galizia's death. Because she was involved with the Panama papers not long before her murder, everyone assumes that that's why she was murdered. This idea makes the Panama papers seem like some kind of scary bedtime story you tell the kids to scare the shit out of them. People just love to trot out the narrative that if you dig into tax evasion, the rich will car bomb you and put the kibosh on any further investigation. It's not just this one dude earlier in the thread. I see it over and over again. It's annoying.\n\nThere was a thread not more than a week ago where the same shit was going on. People expect some grand sweeping heroic take down of the powers that be that sets the world right. In reality it could take decades to have a truly significant impact, but in the mean time, people are investigating and trying to expose corruption however they can. If people are so upset that things move so slowly or that it seems like nothing is happening at all, then they should take up the cause. I mean, they can't car bomb everybody, right? Right!?", "Probably making some really hard life choices rn.", "Lol that’s not true at all.", "Sounds like he had ideals that have nothing to do with, for example, going to prison for decades", "Half of the real estate in Toronto, San Francisco, and LA are owned by Chinese investors. So much so that the price of real estate is skyrocketing. They learned awhile ago.", "The number of American redditors critical of the American government outnumber those who aren't by orders of magnitude.", "I think not even close. Nazi Germany was awful, don't get me wrong. But if you were German and not actively opposed to the Nazi party, you were fine and didn't live in fear for your life or your family. In NKorea, everyone is treated like the jews during the holocaust, and anyone and their whole family could be reeducated just because. Nazis came to power with the promise of making life better for Germans and they largely delivered (before being bombed into the stone age by the allies). Kim Jong un is revered as a living God, or else it's the work camps for you, life literally sucks for EVERYONE, except military, and then it only sucks slightly less bad.\n\nLet's not let the Nazis become the \"worst possible\" regime when we have regimes since that are easily worse.", "I think that's true in some respects. I also think that Americans love to hate on America's enemies and can easily be lead astray.", "It’s ok I’m somewhat of an expert myself", "You would think there is at least a single news story about it if Jackie Chan worked movies in exchange for kidnapping ;) just not how the world works but ok believe your verifiably false YouTube comment", "Say what out loud? He is not saying nothing but actively out promoting the ccp propaganda minister. That is the opposite of saying nothing", "🥱", "Naw, I knew this would attract the PRC bots like stink on shit but there is no comparison to what the PRC does to their people- extortion that happens in democratic establishments usually catches up to the preps and has no comparison to what you see in the PRC. Look what happened to that poor tennis woman or Jackie Chan who just had a post today." ]	173	videos	Jackie Chan: Why the Action Star is Hated in Hong Kong
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qljs6phMy8o&feature=youtu.be	/r/videos/comments/remehi/the_professor_brothers_prisoner_christmas/	[ "I haven't seen or thought about China IL in a long while.", "This is art", "This has no right being this good.", "Also great from Brad Neely:\n\n(History Lesson) JFK and George Washington.", "Six foot one made of radiation!", "And the GOAT, IMO:\n\n[Fliff](https://youtu.be/Sp3wTXYoCCg)\n[Night](https://youtu.be/AUhE5KsJ5hk)\n\nI still use Tokyo Drift as a verb twelve years later because of this magnum opus.", "Don't forget [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsrSOZn3M1M) where he predicts the average trump supporter 7 years before they existed", "\"THIS IS CHRISTMAS MUSIC!\"", "These guys are amazing. They posted [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsrSOZn3M1M) in 2009, years before Donald Trump was even on the radar. Fucking prophets. Well, maybe not prophets but they demonstrated a profound understanding of where American politics and culture was heading years before such nonsense became the norm.", "\"These guys\" was just one dude, Brad Neely. Did all the animation, voices, and music himself. Total creative powerhouse.", "That. Is. Why. You. Don't. Fuck. Students. Right there.", "He's not predicting anything. He's describing Bush-era neocons. The fact that the issues haven't changed at all should lead to the conclusion that Trump is nothing new. Instead it somehow reinforces the idea that history began with him and all events that happened before merely serve to herald his coming?\n\n\"Build a wall\" is a triggering phrase now, but immigration and the border (including improving/expanding the border fence) were huge issues during Bush's presidency and the right's position on them was even more popular than it is today. The Governor of California praised the Minuteman Project.", "Lol way to bury the lede. The governor of California you are referring to was a fellow Republican. Arnold Schwarzenegger.", "2055:\n\nSon, play that banger from when I was alive and the world was young.", "I love the crying solo.", "LOL, Freddie...", "These are old problems. Can't prophetize the past.", "Getoffame!", "[George Washington](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iVsdRbhnc)", "What does that have to do with the fact that the issues predate Trump?" ]	19	videos	The Professor Brothers - Prisoner Christmas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JXp1rTLa0c	/r/videos/comments/remktr/will_it_run_after_93_years_1917_cadillac_v8/	[ "93? Is the video 11 years old?", "Maybe someone owned the car for 11 years before it was abandoned", "1917 is the year the car was manufactured, not the year it was abandoned.", "Save your time. He doesn't get it to run.", "I bet they thought they were so intelligent too when they found out that 1917 was not 93 years ago" ]	6	videos	Will it run after 93 years? 1917 Cadillac v8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN3tCHUQsz8	/r/videos/comments/remtnf/german_comedians_facebook_requiem_socialize_the/	[ "I don't use facebook, so I am not aware of all problems of this social network.\n\nBut if it is the spread of missinformation and radicalization, I don't know whether affected users will not just use a different social network instead. For example, after the_donald was closed, wasn't there a website created that essentially acted as a substutite for the removed subreddit?\n\nI don't want to oppose the idea of the video, but I'm curious if someone knows what problem is to be adressed and how effective the suggested solution is.", "They want state controlled facebook? What could go wrong?", "Is this a JoJo reference?", "I mean, can't be worse than current facebook", "Never listen to anything a german media puppet says.", "Jan Böhmermann is a talented guy, he has done some great songs, a favourite of mine:\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZc8tBtIDhI\n\nedit: for those slow on the uptake about the facebook vid, this is called satire.", "So its okay to call people you don't agree with racial slurs?", "So its okay to call people you don't agree with racial slurs?", "It was satire, and an attempt to explore the limits of the ridiculous law about insulting foreign leaders, which has since been rescinded, I believe. Also, it was an attempt to push erdogans buttons. Any slightly intelligent dictator would just ignore it, but erdogan, being the corrupt imbecile that he is, reacted hysterically, as usual.", ">wasn't there a website created that essentially acted as a substutite for the removed subreddit?\n\nThe fact that you are struggling to remember what that deserted website is proves deplatforming works.", "If the U.S. government took control of Facebook then all the 1st Amendment arguments about banning and deplatforming will become legitimate.", "Most people being the loudest about their displeasure of social media have horrible ideas on how to fix it. And that’s because fixing it is really, really hard. If you asked people 10 years ago if it would be good to connect everyone in the world you’d probably get most saying “yes”. Now most people want to cut off that connection. \n\nIt’s also interesting how the discussion has pretty much shifted only to Facebook. Twitter has its own problems but the media and politicians like it more. A few years ago there were tons of posts showing Reddit outcomes could be manipulated through buying upvotes or using bots. Now I see no one complaining about that.", "I hate facebook too but letting the state run it is a terrible idea", "Most people had a naive vision of social media 20 years ago, imagining the chaos that was the world wide web would color the social networks to come. Instead, the tribalism and exclusivity of society was brought into social networks, and we have the worst of both worlds; one which exaggerates the loudest voices and encourages people to find echo chambers. It's pretty obvious in retrospect, that people will bring the baggage of their world into the new places they go. There is no blank slate for humankind it seems.", "While that one is also good, my personal favourite will forever be [V for Varoufakis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afl9WFGJE0M).", ">I don't use facebook, so I am not aware of all problems of this social network.\n\nSo you clearly don't pay attention whatsoever to the world? As someone who quit FB years ago myself only having used it for a few years, I know fully well why FB (and social media in general) is bad for us and society as a whole.\n\nYou got to be living under a rock to not have read any news or headlines about it for the last 10 years.", "Found the turkish shill.", "ITT: people taking satire too seriously despite the title mentioning that it's satire", "I think we can go after them when we've done likewise to the megacorporations that control our food and pollute our water and air.", "Then eat the rich zucck", "Just saying \"it's satire\" doesn't say much.\n\nI see the satire as them making fun of how much they use facebook (the beginning is them all using the platform to spread their message of not liking facebook). It being satire doesn't necessarily mean they are ridiculing or thinking it's a bad idea making it hyper regulated or to break it up.\n\nJon Stewart's Daily Show was satire but it didn't mean that lots of what he discussed or said wasn't things he truly believed in. It just meant he used humor to tease out points he wanted to make. Obviously different than the Colbert Report which used satire to purely ridicule the views of certain people and never proposed what the comedian ever thought.\n\nThis guy got a pretty long interview with the FB whistleblower. He isn't just some random person being completely silly.", "I prefer his poetry.", "Saying goat fucker is a racial slur implies that you associate goat fucking with a certain race instead of the proper association: People who fuck goats." ]	39	videos	German Comedian's "Facebook Requiem - Socialize The Network"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLjaqRuCyr0	/r/videos/comments/remw4z/a_murder_mystery_only_150_iq_people_can_solve/	[ "I doubt my IQ is that high tbh", "Same here.", "Any one els here with a 75 IQ that wants to partner up? Togather we can suceed.", "Ed", "Exactly 150? This is like those Facebook posts\n\n“99% of people can’t solve this!!!”\n\nWhich 99.9% can solve, and the numbers are just clickbait", "It's the viewer. A murderer is You!" ]	7	videos	A MURDER MYSTERY ONLY 150 IQ PEOPLE CAN SOLVE
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rent81/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rent81/deleted_by_user/	[ "It's pud season", "Too much pud.", "Pretty tame for the Auntie Donna cree" ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGtbr-ZvdT0	/r/videos/comments/reoswq/the_ultimate_showdown_of_ultimate_destiny_15th/	[ "Loved the cameo from Nic Cage superman.", "Sir, I hate to tell you this. \n\nThe original crew made this newer updated version of the song back in 2009.\n\n[Link!](https://youtu.be/sJh2bLmVPx4)", "I thought it was great tribute. Extra action, HD, and different animations. Very cool!", "This was great. Fun to see new characters!", "RIP Lemony Fresh", "Having seen them both, I agree with eydryan.", "*hearing", "Loved the Ja'am appearance", "The new version of the song is of much better quality, but I do prefer the original just because its a little more punk rock and gives off more energy." ]	9	videos	The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny 15th Anniversary Redux Collab
https://youtu.be/knnB4M0qur4	/r/videos/comments/reow1g/final_fantasy_x_to_zanarkand_piano_cover_by/	[ "Excellent ! Always loved this song.", "He played this beautifully.", "I could do that. I just dont wanna.\n\nSeriously though, incredible!", "The feels. Man i pumped so many hours into ffx.", "This takes me back to Titus and the crew sitting around the fire. This song is one of my favorite to try to play on [virtual piano](https://virtualpiano.net/music-sheet/to-zanarkand-final-fantasy-alternative/).", "It's fascinating and a dizzying how easy most music is in theory when you break it down, but also how hard it still is in spite of that", "I've been playing this a lot lately, I'm really glad to see not just the song on /r/videos but such a good rendition of it. Incredible.\n\nI also love the dad joke haha", "this video is big part of my decision to replay the game! can’t wait to get started", "My wife was learning a few songs for our wedding I would like - her parents talked her out of To Zanarkand/Aerith's Theme and Game Of Thrones (we're talking 5 years ago now)... she just played some typical piano that I hadn't heard before.\n\n\nGreat job u/BearKilgore x", "Nobuo Uematsu is truly one of the greatest musical minds of all time, and this is a beautiful cover.", "play the songs you want, it’s not their wedding", "Yeah really watching him absolutely nail it is great.", "> The feels\n\nInstant nostalgia hit.", "Thanks for the great post, OP. \n\nJust subbed to /u/BearKilgore ; man is talented and clearly passionate about music.", "that he is", "simply put, he’s scored some of my fondest memories", "As much as I detest the linearity X began you can't fault it for having a great story and a banging soundtrack.", "I grew to love the linearity as part of its charm, at least the story made up for it and did a decent job explaining it. Could be the game would have been better if it was more open, might have called for 2 discs instead one though.", "FFX has one of the best scores, this especially hits home. Damn, these times were golden memories", "I always loved the [string quartet version](https://iterations.org/files/music/remixes/Final_Fantasy_10_Zanarkand_String_Quartet_OC_ReMix.mp3) of this song.", "Something about the music of FF7-10 that really evokes something in me, especially 8. Nobuo Uematsu is a master.", "This song depresses me. When I had my dog cremated, this song was playing on a loop at the little wake the funeral parlor provided.", "👍🏻", "Sad but beautiful. I'm sure your buddy is looking down on you and will be with you forever.\n\n\"The People And The Friends That We Have Lost, Or The Dreams That Have Faded...Never Forget Them.\" - Yuna", "You'll cry. You're gonna cry. You always cry. See? You're crying.", "that part always makes me cry", "Listen to my story... This may be our last chance" ]	29	videos	Final Fantasy X - To Zanarkand Piano cover by u/BearKilgore
https://youtu.be/BbeEDw_7EGI	/r/videos/comments/repcui/woman_spots_tornado_outside_her_home_at_night_and/	[ "Jesus, freak out much? Way to calmly organize the family and not traumatize them.", "Exactly, the adults in the house should be calm to keep the kids calm, in return they are thinking straight and can get everyone (hopefully) safely in the basement.", "Ladies, if a guy's first reaction to an emergency is to call us crazy, leave him.", "Stop being crazy.", "Yeah, you should always divorce and split up a family because of skepticism.\n\nLadies, don't take relationship advice from 12 yr olds on reddit", "Staying married to a man who lacks even a shred of respect for you is a great example to show the kids", "Damn this is one annoying video!!! Clickbait thumbnail. Can’t see anything. Ranting person. \n\nNo.", "Is their house still standing?", "Grow up.", "Men, if a woman’s first reaction is freaking out instead of remaining calm for her children, leave her\n\nDo you see how stupid you sound yet?", "I unfortunately watched the entire video, I'm not really convinced either.", "You can see the tornado and the husband not believing her. 🤷", "Nothing to see here. Move along", "This would be me. But then again, my wife loves making mountains out of mole hills.\n\nStill, I'd simply verify.", "Seriously, the husband's reply is mostly \"You're scaring the kids.\" and her reply is full blown panic attack.", "It's annoying but you do see the tornado at the very beginning of the video but it's only on screen for probably just under a second. Pause the vid and drag the time line all the way to the left and you'll see it. Other than that, yep, quite an annoying video.", "Here, Alex's Apology video. https://www.tiktok.com/@sashastiktok13/video/7040635126597848325?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1", "that actually crazy, wht if they where all asleep\n\nis there lika a tornadoapp that gives alert when there is one nearby?", "I can sort of understand frustration that would lead to her freaking out. Her whole family’s lives are in danger, her partner doesn’t believe her, so she’s frantically trying to get the kids to safety while he’s being no help. I can see how a person would be trying to instill a little urgency in those around them.", "THis lady is clearly not from the midwest...\n\n\n\n\nWell, I'm joking really....but anyone from the midwest who sees a tornado that isn't right on them will stay there and record it or wake the husband to have him watch it too.", "Usually there’s sirens going off when there’s a tornado warning. If those bad boys where going off at the same time she was freaking out, that would of at least lit a fire under me.", "i mean she was right and he couldnt be bothered to get out of bed", "In the half second where you can see the tornado, you can see that it's distinctly moving from left to right. That means it isn't heading toward the camerawoman. Still incredibly scary, but that bit of knowledge could have saved everyone the freakout.", "Maybe if she didn’t act like such a hysterical woman\n\n(Here come the down votes 😀)", "You can’t see shit in half a second", "You know there was a tornado, right? That has caused lots of damage? She was right,", "Speak for yourself.", "For real, stop scaring the kids. Remain calm, get into the basement." ]	30	videos	Woman Spots Tornado Outside Her Home At Night And Husband Refuses To Believe Her
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnlTCTwwWmc	/r/videos/comments/repwsu/why_credit_scores_are_a_scam_the_gravel_institute/	[ "100% accurate.\n\nSource ... Me. It has happened to me, just as he said.", "Woah! Did not know it was that bad. My loan process (here in Finland) was different. The bank wanted to know salaries (and stability of work), prior loans and the loan period. Then they calculated how much of a monthly dent the payments make, just to determine if we can afford to live on top of that. When that was all okayed, we got a loan. Seems reasonable. Super super low interest.", "You should watch the video.", "Yeah the video doesn't change anything about that. Nothing about it is a scam, you just don't like the way it works.", "So how do you improve it if it's so bad? Just give loans to anyone? My credit score is outstanding so I have no issues. But then again I pay my bills.", "An exercise anyone can do is contact any one of these companies and try to find out how your credit score was calculated. calling it \"impartial\" and \"fair\" is silly.\n\nI recently had 3 agencies give my score, and frankly, the credit report is bizarre. It gives you a number, but nothing where you can determine if any given ranking is even accurate. \n\nFor example, all 3 of the reports said I had \"Delinquent accounts\", except to my knowledge, my bills were paid, my debts were in good standing, and all for over 20 years. So I tried to find out what delinquent accounts these were referring to...\n\nThey literally would not tell me. I called them, they would not tell me. I did the \"write a letter\" thing the websites ask, again, they wouldn't tell me. \n\nOne \"helpful\" customer service rep asked me what part of the credit report I wanted to contest, but as literally none of it cited anything specific... there was nothing I could contest. I said the \"Delinquent accounts\", which they said they would evaluate... then I got a letter saying it was judged nothing was inaccurate in my credit rating.... again, without saying what the delinquent accounts were... I had nothing. \n\nKeeping files on people where they have no ability to even determine if the file is even accurate is not \"fair\" by any stretch of the imagination.", "A strange number of people defending something that is strange to defend.", "Many Americans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.", "What did they say that was a lie? \n\nWhere did they say FICO scores incorporate income? They specifically said the opposite of that.", "Just get your credit report. It literally shows you what debt accounts are open and which ones are delinquent. If you don’t pay your bills, it will become more expensive to acquire debt. If you are still having trouble understanding what the report is telling you, have a trusted friend who is somewhat financially knowledgeable explain it. They are designed so that people with a high school education can quickly grasp it. Credit scores are a great way to quantitatively determine how lenders assess you as a risk and how to improve if you want. Its important to have a non subjective method of determining lender risk so it is harder for lenders to discriminate based on race and gender. This video is mostly biased misinformation.", "In the video it says Wells Fargo specifically targetted 'mud people' with worse loan terms that kept them in debt longer at a higher price. That's a scam, my dude.", "I think this is the next step. First we acknowledge that the current system is garbage. Next we have a serious discussion about better options.", "I review credit reports as a part of my job, I work in mortgage lending. I don't know how many I have reviewed but I would say its around 15,000 at this point in my career. I am no expert but have a pretty good idea what it take to have a good credit score (700+) and it does not require massive amounts of debt. How credit scores work should really be taught in high school. Home economics class being phased out of high school is a tragedy. \n\nI have seen plenty of people in their mid 20s who have only ever had 1-2 credit cards and a car loan with 800 scores. I have also seen people in their 30s and 40s who have no credit and never have had credit. \n\nThey can be a little arbitrary and prone to errors. The errors though are typically the fault of reporting agencies not Experian, Transunion or Equifax. The issue with the credit bureaus is more that they are difficult to deal with and painfully slow. But its not a scam. How much debt you have does not really effect the credit agencies bottom line. \n\nPeople get frustrated often by credit scores because of the wide range that you see. Whatever score your bank or credit cards gives you on an app is different score than what the car dealer will see, the landlord will see or the mortgage lender will see.", "So you have no real idea then? We should just give out loans to anyone and cause another Housing Crash of 2008 right? You know where they gave loans to anyone without actually checking that they could afford it? \n\nPeople that hate the credit system are those that have poor credit due to poor life choices.", "> If you pay off your credit and your credit score goes down, it might have been because you've actually moved UP in the credit score system, because you're in a new higher-level \"bucket\" with people have, on average, better scores than you.\n\nSo it is possible? You said that was a lie.\n\nListen, I get that you're upset that this piece wasn't perfectly in line with what you see as true, but the major thrust of it is true. \n\nBanks use the FICO Score that most people have no fucking clue how it works combined with other metrics to maximize profits in ways that hurt society at large.\n\nIs the FICO score itself a \"scam\"? ... that's debatable I'd say. It certainly helps banks exploit customers ripe for exploitation.", "Google \"alternatives to credit scores\". We aren't suffering from lack of alternatives.", "Is that policy a scam or is credit scores are being used as a part of a scam a scam? Tools are not scams. Bad people can use tools for all types of bad policy.", "> \"alternatives to credit scores\"\n\nLol, top result:\n\"Examples include facial recognition, and psychometric testing which uses AI to measure truth, fear, sadness, and previous user data, to predict your likelihood of overall repayment. But this remains in testing mode and it’s not available in South Africa,” he explains. \"\n\n\nSo scan people to see if theyre good people? Or you know stick with the current system where they have a history of everything past transactions to see if you pay your bills or not.", "You stopped at the top search result?", "It should be noted that the Gravel Institute is an openly and distinctly ~~liberal~~ left leaning entity created specifically to \"counterbalance\" PragerU. \n\nI am NOT saying that makes anything in this video wrong (or right). Just that its important, imo, that people know that their information is being presented by people with a clear defined political agenda.", "Right! The one thing people need to do is change their framing around what a credit score is. It's not, \"How likely am I to pay all my debts\". The real question a credit scores answers is, \"How likely is a lender to make money off of me and what risk do I carry?\". Generally speaking, people that make financially responsible decisions and minimize their debt obligations STILL have higher credit scores than those that carry 10-15% of their gross income in debt because the risk portion of that calculation is heavily weighted. Debt that isn't paid back and then incurs more cost to collect is much less profitable than someone who always pays their credit cards off in the grace period and is still valuable as a spending data point to be sold as market research. \n\n&nbsp;\n\nOnce you approach it from that frame of reference, there are no idiosyncrasies. Maintaining multiple lines of credit and keeping them in check, makes sense to increase the score, paying off loans before interest accrues, makes sense to lower the score. It's really not difficult. This is also why mortgage originators and their underwriters pull your whole credit history. The interest and therefore profit of the loan is more-or-less baked in up front on a fixed-rate conforming mortgage so they care more about your ability to carry the loan long-term.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nThis isn't some nefarious, hidden secret. It's literally how I was originally taught credit scores worked back in Pre-Bush high school econ.", "they arent liberal, they are socialist.", "Yep. No reason to fix something that's not broke. Especially when the top result is something out of Black Mirror.", "And just to add to that point, capitalist media corporations that sell ad time to financial institutions and large multinationals should also be understood to have their own political agenda. They filter out topics that they'd prefer not be part of the public discourse.", "Yes.", "~~\"thats not a dog, thats a german shepard\"~~\n\nMy mistake. Its early okay.", "socialist are anti-liberalism. they are not the same thing.", "Why are you defending credit scores? lol this is so weird. Credit scores are useless. A bank can just look at my income vs my current debt and determine if I can afford to take on another loan (this is how most countries do it). The credit score is literally designed to pray on poor people to have an excuse to give them a higher interest rate. I don't need this guy to tell that to me, its blatantly obvious.", "they may end up voting for liberals but thats usually because they just hate republicans more. but in the world of political theory, even conservatives are considered a liberal party. socialists are against all types of liberals", "Nope.\n\nLiberals are very much still Capitalists. They also usually believe in 'the system', even if they do want it reformed to some degree.\n\nThey are not leftists, and they're certainly not socialists.", "... Socialism and liberalism are mutually exclusive ideologies you absolute buffoon.", "ok at least you realized, just a tip. (at least online) when you hear someone says \"leftist\" its usually socialist/communist rather than how its used normally in the US", "and that there's a decent bit of competition to come up with alternatives for lending. they've had a tough go of it.", "mhmm\n\nAnd how does that make you feel?", "> . You can easily pull all 3 reports, for free,\n\nAs I said... the reports simply say \"Delinquent accounts\", do not say what the accounts are, when they occurred, nor will any of the credit agencies reveal this information to me...\n\nCredit reports do not tell you what the accounts are, they only say whether the company says they exist or not.", "It's like you saw \"Gravel Institute\" and then decided to not watch the video.", "If your truly against something then you should not attempt to straw-man your argument.", "> It literally shows you what debt accounts are open and which ones are delinquent.\n\nYou'd think they would show that... they don't. \n\nThey only say whether the credit agency thinks they exist.\n\nI've got three credit reports and a dreadful amount of time on the phone and requesting information to testify to this.\n\nSeriously, get yours and find out.", "This makes it sound like you get a high credit score from taking on large sums of debt. Which doesn’t make sense because I had an 800+ credit score when my only debt obligations were a $60 cell phone bill and a credit card with a $1000 limit.\n\nIt was fairly simple. I didn’t spend what I couldn’t afford, and I used my credit card whenever possible as my primary payment method. Pay it off every month and live debt-free. Your credit score mostly reflect your frequency of credit use along with your track record for paying it down.", "That's exactly how it works here. They calculate your DTI (debt-to-income ratio) from records you provide and generally try to keep you below 36% of your income in monthly debt obligations. They ask you for financial statements dating back 2 years on your income and 90-120 days on your bank accounts.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nThis video seems to be trying to sell you on the idea that FICO is the sole basis of mortgage approvals and other large loans therefore you must be a profitable debt slave to qualify for a home loan, that's just not correct.", "> socialist are anti-liberalism.\n\nIm still not sure this is true. \n\nBut tbh I think these words have become almost uselessly nebulous and confused. \n\nI tried to find a clear defintion of these words after your comment and while I found plenty of defintions, many were conflicting. \n\nSome say they are orthogonal, some say they are the same, some say they are opposite. I seem to be able to find a definition of these terms which covers all possible relations to each other. Meaning I cant say what they really mean.", "Your credit score is a measure how profitable you are to a lender. It's not a measure of your worth as a person.\n\n Just because you have fantastic credit doesn't mean you can walk into a bank and get whatever you want.\n\n As a commercial borrower and guarantor, I've gone through the lending process securing financing of over a million dollars on 4 separate occasions in my career. Only half the time they even bothered to pull my credit. The bank's energies and efforts were focused on investigating collateral and cash flow. Then checking the UCC filings to make sure anybody else out there would subordinate.", "That doesn't mean that credit scores or loans are scam, just that predatory loaning exists.", "I mean the title is factually wrong.", "the reason is that liberalism is focused on personal freedoms and individualism, while socialism is an inherently collectivist ideology", "It took you how long to figure this out?\n\nThe FICO scam started in 1956.", "I had an 800+ credit score with just a $60 phone bill and a credit card with $1000 limit. Didn’t even have a car yet. It’s fairly easy to get to if you use credit for daily purchases you can afford, and pay it off every month. Doesn’t matter how small the purchases are; you can put a candy bar on credit card and pay it off immediately.", "That is not how most countries do it.\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/select/is-the-us-the-only-country-with-credit-scores/\n\nEveryone is going to consider your history of paying back debts. If a bank loans you money to buy a house, they aren’t going to say “hey they make $100k and have $0 in debt let’s loan them $500k.” They are going to make sure you didn’t go through bk and they want to make sure you don’t have a history of borrowing more later and then getting into trouble.\n\nEdit: even in poor countries, there is an attempt by groups to create credit scores because without them it is harder to get a loan. US academics have tried to help them make scores based on say cell phone usage to predict their credit worthiness. This then makes institutions more comfortable lending to people at lower rates.", "It’s really strange to criticize people for defending something that you appear to want to criticize.", "Great point because as we all know banks did not do any consumer lending until FICO invented the credit score 32 years ago!", "Dont make the mistake of thinking reddit isnt full of paid shills and trolls. \n\nIts packed full of full time political and corporate astroturf shills. \n\nThey are creating posts and responding to them specifically on certain topics on their list of things to focus on. \n\nWhen you see them in this thread everywhere its because the topic is on their focus list. Look at the words they use and what they are defending. \n\nIf you see someone say hey man I thin that fox outside the henhouse is eyeballing us and a bunch of posts saying only leftist anarchists would suggest such a thing then you know they are both team fox and trying to change your thoughts to make you believe that everyone is team fox and you are out of the loop for not wanting to be eaten. \n\nThis thread is particularly packed full of these. \n\nCheck out my account Ive been around since almost the beginning of Reddit. And this isnt my oldest account. These trolls appeared right before the us presidential elections in a huge way during the obama administration and now they crank up when the troll money spend faucet opens.", "You’re right. Scam is the wrong word. It is a social construct invented in the 1980s that provides those in power with more tools to disenfranchise the poor.", "> A bank can just look at my income vs my current debt\n\nA credit score takes into account previous failures of repayment because some people serial default. Differentiating people who default as a business strategy(and shouldn't be loaned to) from people who repay their debts is the entire point of a score. This is like looking at donald trump and warren buffet's reported income and concluding they're both riskless when in reality one is a financial predator and the other not.\n\nIf you don't have a mechanism of diffentiating between high risk and low risk borrowers honest people end up paying much higher rates and loans become harder to get.\n\nYour proposal soley factors in income not history which would disproportionately single out the poor for higher rates of non lending.\n\n> this is how most countries do it\n\nBut does it lead to better results? Lower rates, honest people getting loans when they need them, dishonest people not getting loans or at their appropriately higher rates?\n\n\nedit: Just to illustrate how nonsensical this idea is.\n\nA theoretical dishwasher making 15 dollars an hour of income, with no debt and 0 expenses is evaluted as worse than a business owner with 1000 dollars an hour of income, no debt and 2000 dollars of expenses an hour under a strict \"income to debt\" based risk evaluation.", "> Im still not sure this is true. \n\nNo, it is 100% true. Liberalism and social democracy have long been critiqued from a socialist/communist POV.", "Yeah can't wait to go back to the old days where you would walk into a bank and if they liked you enough, looked the way they wanted you to look, and your dad knew someone in management, only then would they give you a fair loan. \n\nTurns our using actual data and models to assess the likelyhood of someone paying you back without taking into account discriminatory things like race, appearance, or if your family knows the bank managers family makes for a better system. And we now have regulators searching out for banks who do bad things things like redlining. So, I will gladly take the system we have now versus the old racist system. \n\nThis is just a bizarre video, over half of it isn't even about credit scores, but about lowering middle and lower class income, which while we all agree is bad doesn't make credit scores a scam.", "People will talk about how China's social credit system is dystopian and terrifying, and then come into Reddit threads to defend US credit scores that govern where you can live and your ability to buy a car, despite not being based on your ability to repay loans at all.", "FWIW, UK renters can use their rent payments to improve their credit ratings - https://www.creditladder.co.uk/ (Not affiliated)\n\nWhen I got my mortgage it was not really based on my CR but rather the 'affordability test'. Amazingly, I was able to borrow the £18K I needed, even on a 4-figure income, as I had the other £18K saved, and the mortgage payments were going to be like £80pcm or so.", "Credit scores aren’t a scam, it’s just that people don’t understand that credit scores and reports are financial instruments used by lenders to determine risk. \n\nThe 2 issues are with companies and employers/landlords using them to insinuate correlations such as “high credit = more responsible = better employee/tenant”\n\nAnd the other issue is people obsessing over their own credit score and going bananas when certain things occur that result in a temporary reduction in the score. \n\nFor example: “I applied for a card, had my credit pulled and my score went down! I didn’t even get the card, iTs A sCAm!” It’s not a scam, there was a temporary small reduction in score because there is a temporary small increase in risk. Your credit pull may have been because you have opened a new line of credit that hasn’t shown up yet. If you just opened a new line of credit that may obviously impact your ability to repay ANOTHER loan. So your score is lowered to reflect that possible risk. \n\nThe score is for lenders, it’s not really for you. Just pay your bills on time and don’t obsess over min/maxing the number and you’ll be fine.", "It is a strange number of people defending something that is strange to defend.\n\nI mean you'd think, for instance, that there would be a sizable number of commenters who would just reflexively post negative comments against these financial institutions without even looking into it properly based purely on hatred of these things that fuck up lives and the Earth.\n\nBut no, it seems to be mostly loquacious and precise sounding accounts of what's supposedly wrong with the vid.\n\nOdd.", "I wouldn't say the video is trying ti sell that. The video is trying to tell you the score cares more about what interest rate you can be charge and if you can be kept in debt rather then paying It off.\n\nIt made a comment that debt in the past was used for big ticket items in the past mortgages, car loans, etc. Now your FICO score can affect rent, car loans, mortgages but it more affects the % you can be charged, how much money a bank can make off of you not so much your risk of debt.\n\nBig ticket items (cars, houses ect) come with a lot of risk to the bank, if you don't pay it off they could be stuck with the property they can't sell. So they need to look at more then the FICO score to make sure you won't default. \n\nWhen we look at smaller loans, lines of credit, cash advances, and such. That is where they care more about keeping a person in debt then actually helping them out. Credit was sold as a tool to help people get ahead, but it is really has become a tool to extract profit from the poor and working class.", "So here's something crazy that I'm running in to. I also have a high-ish credit score - 750. My only debt is a mortgage. \n\nHowever, I'm finding that I can't get big loans like car or home improvement loans... because I don't have enough credit lines. It's a shitty catch-22. According to experian or one of them, they tell me I should have 5 lines of credit!", "My credit score bombed when I paid off loans and I quickly realized it isn't a measurement of your ability to pay back loans and be responsible with money, it's your reliability to hold debt and pay interest so someone, somewhere can profit.", "You are obviously not looking at your actual credit report direct from Experian, TransUnion, or Equifax. They all clearly show a breakdown of each individual account, and a month-by-month payment history.\n\nI'm looking at mine right now on Experian's website.", "You'll notice that the Gravel Institute provides citations for all the arguments they make. PragerU does not, because it can't. PragerU is fairly blatant propaganda at this point, with almost all of its content being easily debunkable.\n\nYou are right though, it is explicitly a counterbalance. It counterbalances the lies of PragerU with verifiable facts.", "Liberals and socialists are absolutely not the same thing.", "It's important to be factually accurate. One of the biggest problems I have with a pure materialist view of the world is that the ends always justify the means.\n\n\"Yeah, the claims I am making are not accurate, but credit scores are bad so it doesn't matter, as long as people understand they are bad we don't have to be right!\"", "God forbid people wanting to only loan money to those who can pay it back oh no /s", "In my area they use credit scores to determine if you're allowed a rental for your primary home\n\nAlso my country is dealing with a massive amount of homeless people anyone want to guess why?", "They aren't nebulous or confusing. Americans just use the word 'liberal' to mean left wing, pretty much the opposite of everywhere else on earth.", "Does the rest of the world use a credit score system like the US? How did the US lend money before credit scores?", "I get my credit report 3x a year from www.annualcreditreport.com (I space out the 3 different bureaus). It absolutely shows you what delinquent accounts are on it. I've never missed a payment and recently one of my banks made an error and applied my payment to the wrong account (long story). My credit reports reflected this. I was able to dispute it through their websites and it was removed about a week later.", "You are correct the Gravel institute is a left leaning organization, they fully and openly admit that. They were designed to be a counter to the plathora of right wing propaganda, and they openly state that.\n\nThey don't lie about who they are, what thier goals are, why they make videos, and I haven't found any lies in there videos. Like this one, there wasn't any actual lies or miss information everything they said was true.\n\nThe point they even say at the end, is yes the score is useful for helping determine risk but a better system could be built that is actually about people's risk and not about the ability to profit off of thier debt.", "while i am a detractor of credit score worship, and agree with alot of things this guy said about the policy history of the 70s and 80s. this guy is lying. saying that people could no longer rely on just their incomes alone to support themselves and then turned to debt to supplement their incomes ignores a key part of borrowing, you gotta pay it back and the only thing with which you can ultimately pay it back is your income.\n\nyea the bankers pushed borrowing but in the long run it's just another expense, not another stream of funds for the borrower.", "wow", "Yep, that's because your average credit age went down. It's quite a stupid system.", "That was me until 4 years ago. Then I got a good job and started actually making money. I tried to buy a new car. Nope. Had to have my dad cosign b/c while I had maintained at 790 credit score for 12 years I never had a single large payment. They okayed it with the cosign, but they gouged me on interest. \n\nThen 2 years ago I wanted to buy the house I had been renting. Nope. Car purchase wasn't long enough to establish credit. Add in that my business is mostly cash and when I turned in my Financials they couldnt determine where my income came from. Despite me telling them and showing them I work as a contractor selling and delivery bread on a route that my business owns. Nope. I make commission on my sales and I have more cash stops than credit which means I end up paying the bread company for the bread I purchased. The remaining cash goes into my business account and from there I pay myself. Nope. Had to get my dad and mother to cosign b/c he has a \"solid\" job that shows payments to his account from a \"real\" company. \n\nAll of this while maintaining a 790+ credit score. It was 800 when I tried to buy the house. Best part for me was when I was arguing about my high credit being enough to the mortgage lender lady. I said, \"shouldn't a high credit score from someone without big purchase show you that for my entire 20's and early 30's I never lived outside my means? That should be enough to show proof that im not acting in bad faith. I can afford this house\" Nope. I understand why she couldn't do it. But the absence large purchases shouldn't necessarily be a negative against the borrower.", "Person A acquires debt.\n\nPerson A doesn't pay back their debts.\n\nPerson A gets a low credit score.\n\nPerson A cant get more loans because lenders find them high risk.\n\nPerson A surprise picachu face", "Did you think packing a sentence would buzzwords would make it true or make any sense at all?", "There are, however, major issues with FICO scores. The main issue is that the credit scores severely punish consumers for not paying off any debt, even fairly small debts, regardless of whether there was a valid reason or not. It is trivial for a big corporation to submit a failure to pay debt notice to the credit agencies but nearly impossible for a consumer to prove that they refused to pay for a service because the service was not provided, not requested, not performed as agreed, etc.\n\nI've been hit by this nonsense twice, once for a lawn service that didn't show up to mow my lawn for several weeks but then reported me to a credit bureau when I refused to pay. Another time I paid for pest service and paid for it, then next year they came and provided service again even though I never agreed to a yearly service. Again same issue, they submit the debt to credit bureau and I was unable to get it removed because the debt is 'legitimate' and the only way I could get it removed was to go to court.\n\nI definitely have a beef with them and I do understand it is all statistics, correlations, etc but the credit scores are designed to punish consumers for even small transgressions and thus force people to pay any debt even in very unfair situations. Medical debt used to be the worst but at least people can't be beat over the head with that anymore.", "I’ve never heard someone defend the US’ credit system. At best, it’s tolerated. I’ve always believed it was nothing more than an excuse to squeeze extra money out of the people who can afford it the least (aka the ones who don’t make the rules).", "That you are an idiot?", "I’m curious how many banks/financial institutions you applied for a loan from? From what you’re saying, between your credit score and the debt to income ratio, you should have been able to get an approval.", "Person B never takes out debt or applies for credit. \n\n\nPerson B can’t get approved for a large loan because there is no track history in on time payments. \n\n\nPerson B surprise picachu face.", "Person B graduates high school\n\nPerson B is on their own after high school\n\nPerson B wants to rent an apartment\n\nPerson B needs a good credit score to rent apartment\n\nPerson B was denied loans and credit cards because they have no credit history\n\nPerson B is now homeless\n\nPerson B surprise pikachu face", "People are waking up to the extreme amount of bias they're constantly being bombarded with. Nearly all of the subreddits I'm subscribed to have devolved into this extreme leftist propaganda over the past few years. The biggest one I've noticed recently is /r/technology which seems like it's being specifically targeted right now.", "I became disabled a few years ago and am planning on having the rest of my student loans - a pretty significant amount - wiped out in 2022. \n\nMy score is around 780 right now, hasn’t been below 760 in the 10 years I’ve been watching it. Really curious to see how far it drops. Doesn’t really matter either way, my social security payments don’t qualify me for any kind of loan or credit anyways.", "The thing that makes me want to shove credit scores up a donkeys ass is the fact that I paid off my 20k in student loans within my first year of graduating (I sold a lot of mushrooms in college lol) and it didn't affect my credit score by one fucking point. FUCK YOU", "Downvoting you because paying off student loans doesn't affect credit score.", "lmao this guy contradicting himself within a single paragraph.\n\nI have you tagged as \"predatory banking shill\" now in beautiful diarrhea colour.\n\nEdit: Would you look at that? The shills and alternate accounts have come in en-masse and upvoted all your massively downvoted comments and downvoted anyone who disagrees! Took you a whole day. You must be very proud. :) And where did my tag of you go?", "This is something you can use to your advantage. \n\nI’m a firm believer that people should pay for everything they possibly can with a credit card with two major caveats, don’t use credit if you’re being assessed the merchant fee & pay your balance off in full each month. \n\nIf you follow these two steps you’ll benefit (through rewards), have a higher score & also be insulated from fraudulent charges.", "Except you know EVERYONE at one point got their first credit card. Tons of credit cards exist for people with no credit history. They have higher interest rates and otherwise less favorable terms, but as long as you pay them off in full every month it doesn't matter.", "> This is disingenious. FICO 8 works in a way that consumers are placed in \"buckets\". These are ways to segment users and it's not based off how much you pay off your debt, it's based on how long your credit lines have been open. If you pay off your credit and your credit score goes down, it might have been because you've actually moved UP in the credit score system, because you're in a new higher-level \"bucket\" with people have, on average, better scores than you.\n> \n> \n\nSo if it's based off of how long a credit line has been opened: I had my car loan for 5 years, I paid it off and my credit immediately dipped. How long my credit line had been open had not changed, it was still at 5 years. The only thing that changed was the projected length of my debt. So apparently credit scores don't just take into account your credit history, they take into account your expected future? And if shortening how long I actually was in debt bumped me up to the next bucket it implies having shorter credit lines is better. But everything I've seen says otherwise. Every guide to credit says that having a longer history of on time payments gives you a better credit score. \n\n\nAlso if there are \"buckets\" that needs to be disclosed alongside the credit score. Because the people on the backend might be able to see that a 675 in one bucket is actually better than a 700 in another bucket, but a bunch of people that use credit scores (employers/landlords) won't be able to see that. So it should look like 675A and 700B. But also I think credit scores in general are an over simplification and anything competent at assessing debt would consider more than just the credit score so the whole thing should probably just be done away with.", "Sounds like Person B is a dummy.", "This is a problem right here. I’m in my 30s. Until recently, I never had a credit card. I paid for my car in cash. I don’t have student loans. We put our appartment in my husband’s name. We put all the bills under mine. I have a job that pays “ok” money. Nothing to brag about but much higher than minimum wage. \n\nUntil we applied for a home loan, I didn’t realize I had made a mistake. Apparently I’m unworthy to lend to because I’ve never had debt in my name. It’s always been in my husband’s. We have never missed a utility bill or a car insurance bill, but apparently this doesn’t count. My income helps pay our rent and his car loan, though. And the utility companies sure as shit would have reported me to the credit agency if I owed them money.\n\nSo because I had never participated in the credit industry, I couldn’t be on the loan for our first home. We still qualified without my income for a loan, but it’s still really stupid, and we would have been screwed if my husband also had bad credit.", "Now take this system and make it a social credit system which tracks all of your spending, location data, vaccination status and so much more. This id the nightmare we are now willingly stepping into.", "This is how it is in America to. It’s called underwriting. An underwriter will take a loan application from a loan officer (essentially a loan salesperson), and weigh many variables such as job and job time, salary, housing status, LTV (loan to value), DTI (debt to income), PTI (payment to income), prior credit experience (including number of trade lines, length of established credit lines, delinquencies, etc.), discretionary income, and credit score. This “financial character” judgment is decided on in just a few minutes. \n\nNevertheless, a credit score is very very very….. very subjective, for the most part. I put it at the end of the list up there because it’s typically not a deciding factor in whether or not a loan applicant is going to get an approval. Anyone can be a 720 with one trade line. Does that mean you’ll get that $80k car just because? Probably not. \n\nMoral of this story is that there’s more to getting approved for larger loans (home, autos, RVs, etc) than just having a decent credit score. \n\nSource: I’m an underwriter for a decent sized credit union.", "Yes it can, it can reduce your average credit age. Once you close the account for student loans it no longer counts toward your credit age. Lenders like to see longer credit ages. When I refinanced my student loans it reduced mine and my credit score went down by \\~40", "Wait until you find out they sell all that data and information to anyone who will pay for it. Without your consent.", "This is incorrect though. By paying off your loan you now have one less area where your credit score can be calculated, so of course your score will go down. Its like if you cancelled a credit card, banks etc now no longer have that as a way of measuring your score thus increasing uncertainty and decreasing your score. \n\nJust a life pro tip: never cancel a credit card as it negatively impacts your score. (Assuming the card has no fees)", "Income vs. debt isn’t the whole story, though. Someone can be high earning and have poor spending habits & be a high-risk borrower. \n\nConversely, someone can have a much lower income but be an ideal borrower. \n\nAlso, is your proposal a flat interest rate for all borrowers? \n\nI don’t view that a fair system either. \n\nlow-risk borrowers would be paying more to subsidize the high-risk borrowers.", "Fuck banks. They only give you money if you can prove you don't need it. The more proof, the more they'll give you. Absolutely backwards bullshit.", "Credit scores are good though. It's important for banks to determine whether loans are likely to be paid back along with what interest rates to charge. Why is that a bad idea?", "> I work as a contractor selling and delivery bread on a route that my business owns\n\nThey are self employed, if they have large write offs on their taxes that will effect their qualifying income. That or history of that self employment, generally need 2+ years. Having w2 income generally makes it easier to get approved. Even exceptional credit cant make up for qualifying income issues.", "Most of this video is just wrong though. You don't need to pay tons of interest or be profitable at all to banks to have a high credit score. I have a super prime credit, and beyond my student loans I haven't paid a dime in interest. You can choose to use debt well or poorly. Credit scores aren't perfect, but they are still better than black people just outright getting denied loans for example in the old system. You don't even have to speak with someone to get a loan in most situations now\n\n\nEdit: added in italicized portion", "yo is that a wild ostonox i see", "The car thing I definitely didn't shop around for. I needed the truck fast to start my business but I didn't get much more than a week between signing the contracting work and starting the route. I didn't wanna buy a truck and not get the contract then be stuck with a truck I couldn't afford. \n\nWith the house I went with the only place that would let me in the door after they saw my financials. I tried 3 places before it and despite explaining my situation they were all too afraid of where my cash was coming from. I just laughed b/c I caught one lady telling her boss (while I was coming back from the bathroom) that she thinks my income was coming from illicit, drugs, transactions. Despite showing her the contract between me and a multinational bakery company. The one that still wanted to work with me after the financials demanded I get a cosigner or they would shut the door too. Once they saw my dad's financials it was a breeze.", "Hi. I replied below to another comment. I never got that “first card” until I was in my 30s. Younger me saw the interest rate, and how my parents were struggling under credit card debt, and never applied for what I determined was a “scam”. I was in my 30s with no credit history. I consider myself incredibly lucky to be healthy and have a comfortable living. But I couldn’t be on the paperwork for our home loan last year because I have no credit.\n\nSo, you’re right they’ll give anyone with a heartbeat a shitty card, but rarely much else.", "This is the comment I was looking for! Videos like this will be looked back on like the anti vaxxer movement from a few years ago. \n\n\n Slowly subvert the population into accepting a social credit system or just shove it down their throat.. either works.", ">Add in that my business is mostly cash and when I turned in my Financials they couldnt determine where my income came from.\n\nYeah that's a huge fucking risk. You could be doing your contract job, or drug muling. You should have receipts and invoices for everything you do right?", "Your credit score is directly tied to your interest rate afaik\n\n\nDTI=Loan Amount\n\nCredit Score= Interest", "Sounds like a good problem to have. Pay cash for your car. Nothing better than not having a car payment", "Only dumbasses who cant take care of their finances properly wish there was no credit score so they can be irresponsible about money and face no consequences. Bitches, its not difficult to get a high credit score. Get a credit card, pay your bills on time. Its not rocket science. If you are just starting out, get one of those low limit cards from Macy's or whatever and build from there.", "There are reasons - in Denmark at least - for not working with credit scores.\n\nFirst, if you go personally bankrupt here you can't escape your debt. You can own next to nothing after the fact and your creditors can come after you if you rebound. Not that they will but they can and for ever, really.\n\nSecond, we're identified through out social security numbers and we have a registry for defaulted debt where credit institutions can easily check.\n\nThird, a simple check is to see if people have a \"Dankort\". It's a debit card assigned to almost all bank accounts in Denmark. If you don't have one it's a big red flag. \n\nSo to get approved for anything loan related your credit check has to survive the above look ups before even looking at income, assets etc.", "The video is this law professor getting to dress and role play Scarface.", "Unfortunately I learned the hard way this just isn't true, when my credit score recently dropped 47 points in one day due to \"high usage\" even though I didn't exceed my limit, and I paid it off entirely before it was due. Credit is an arbitrary fucking scam.\n\nEdit: Enough people are telling me the point I was making, like it wasn't the point I was making. You all need to tell this to the person I replied to, who suggested to pay for everything you possibly can with a credit card.", "The video never said you need to pay tons of interest to have a high credit score.\n\nThe video was explaining the point of a credit score was so banks and lenders can better target people for high interest. \n\nA while back a software developer explained how he was hired by a large car dealership to build a algorithm off FCIO and other data so they could sell a used car to people at a interest rate where the person would default in 6 to 8 months (allowing them to reposses then sell the car) it was tracked that over 10 years 1 car was sold over 8 times (about a 12K car) ended up making the company near 100k in profit, because they knew who to sell too to get the most money not to make sure the person could have a car.\n\nI am glad the system works for you, and it works for me but it doesn't work for a much larger group of people and is designed in a bad way. So why not talk about why it doesn't work so we can then talk about how to fix it so it works for everyone?", "I think the disingenuous part of the video is calling them a scam rather than a tool.\n\nTo massively over simplify, they are looking at lending history and payment history. If you have a history of taking on credit and paying on time, you will be fine. \n\nIf you have no lending history or don’t make payments on time you will have a lower score. \n\nBanks do with this data what the wish, some in nefarious ways.\n\nBut someone who pays their debts on time won’t see a negative score.", "I got to ask, how much risk aversion/tolerance differs from creditors? The subjective voodoo fascinates me.", "I just hate the feast or famine nature of credit scores. I hit a rough patch in my life and wasnt able to cover 1 month of bills and my score which hovered high 700s PLUMMETED TO 620~. Its been 2 years of on time payments since and I am still sitting under 650. \n\nIve used credit for 12 years and 1 month of issues fucked. Almost 12 years of flawless payments should count for something", ">The video never said you need to pay tons of interest to have a high credit score.\n\nIt said it's used to determine how profitable a loan consumer would be. Considering that profitability would come from interest, that's exactly what it means.\n\n\nIt's not perfect, but generally as long as you have a couple credit cards and pay on time you won't have any issues", "Maybe, or he may miss understand the video. Or he may just be a plant trying to say the video is a lie and get people to belive it.\n\nSo I am making sure there is a post to counter him if others read it to know he is not arguing in good faith, and hopefully drive further discussion on this topic.", "I really wish they taught financial literacy in high school, but I feel like the topics taught there would be attacked by the far left the same way the right attacks what they view to be CRT.\n\nIt's super easy to build a credit history, and people like you who dont need a line of credit are exactly the ones who are in the best position to do so. \n\nAll it takes is time and self discipline.", ">Credit reports do not tell you what the accounts are, they only say whether the company says they exist or not.\n\nI'm really curious about this. Are you seeing the list of accounts that aren't delinquent or are you seeing no accounts listed at all?", "Will always downvote PragerU or Gravel Institute. They're only interested in telling you how to think, not laying out all the facts on both sides and letting you decide for yourself.", "I’ve received a copy of my credit report a few times in my life. It’s quite extensive and lists each account, balance, and any reported delinquencies. \n\nAre you sure you’re looking at the actual credit report? Mine have always had all of this information and plainly listed.", "Says \"multiple delinquent accounts\"..\n\nDoes not provide any list.", "Depends on the lender and loan type (conventional vs FHA vs VA) actually but yes there are general guidelines for what interest rates lenders are willing to provide based on credit score. Which makes sense when you think about it as mortgage interest is front loaded in the amortization schedule. Your monthly payment may be the same month-to-month but early on most of your payment (roughly 2:1) is applied to interest on the loan so less \"credit worthy\" buyers are paying out the lender's profit more quickly and will want to refinance the remaining principal later when they qualify for a better rate.", "This is so true. I have paid off all my debt including my mortgage and my credit score is mediocre at best. I have plenty in emergency savings and live way below my means but the banks think I’m a horrible person.", "\"Everyone that doesn't reject something that is almost universally accepted by society must be a paid shill.\"", "Bias reporting… ignorant redditors talking about stuff they have no knowledge of other than said reporting…\n\nName me a more iconic duo", "Yes and I showed them the contract between me and the multinational bakery company. As far as receipts they are checks from the individual stores I deliver to. The bakery company has the receipts for the credit stores. So 4 times a month I deposit about 20 checks into my business from the same 20 places. I showed them 2 months worth of those check stubs b/c I ask for a printed out receipt for my records. \n\nAfter looking at all that I was still turned down 3 times. They even felt uneasy when the looked at my business and personal accounts side by side to see the money coming from my business to my personal...on the same day and same amount. There's no other money that goes into my personal account and I showed them a years worth of those. \n\nI get their fear, they can get into a lot of trouble, but I had an answer and proof for each and every one of their fears. Oh, I even had to show them a bill of sale where I sold a trailer from me to another guy b/c they wanted to know where a large sum came from on my personal. Just another fear and answer. It was frustrating as hell.", "You just described every loan experience I’ve had here in the US. Including my mortgage.", "It’s never treated me wrong. Are you maxing out your balance each month? Percent of debt is a factor. If your CC limit is $2,000 & you’re putting $2,000 on the card each month you’ll see a hit.\n\nIf your limit is $24,000 and you’re putting $2,000 on each month your score skyrockets.", ">How credit scores work should really be taught in high school. Home economics class being phased out of high school is a tragedy.\n\nYes, people need to be taught how to be good debt slaves. Debt is your duty as a citizen after all.", "Not all people just have that kind of cash sitting around.", "Banks are profit-seeking entities whose interests are not necessarily aligned with consumers.", "Yeah that sucks, has nothing to do with credit scores though. They look at different things to determine how risky a business vs personal. They want steady income over multiple years and diversified income streams (one big contract is riskier because if it ends you might be shit out of luck). Most banks just don't want to deal with the risk", "People are so scared to admit they're not free they'll actually pretend they agree with having private companies decide their financial future in secret.", "Sounds about freedom!", "What's the problem? You don't like freedom?", "You're infering that banks created the credit score to target high credit scores. \n\nNot profitable = people who default (low credit score)\n\nBarely profitable = people who never default (high credit score)\n\nProfitable = most everyone else in the middle", "Daily reminder a huge about of our economy isn't some solid bed rock thing thats been around for millions of years. \n\nThese are untested concepts that were introduced by some coke addicted criminals in the 80s and we are just living though the results of it all. \n\nLove it.", "How are they a scam? I pay my bill on time for 12 years and never pay any interest. I have 835 credit score now at the age of 30", "So, a measure of risk, ie who pays off their loans", "May be stupid for you, certainly not for the people using it to squeeze money out of you.", "Can confirm, I worked in banking in the 1970s and 1980s, everything he said was true. There were usury laws limiting the amount of interest banks could charge. But also back then a simple ordinary savings account paid 5.5% interest. Try finding an interest return like that on a demand deposit anywhere today.\n\nBack then home equity loans were the new popular product. I remember feeling really uncomfortable when our bank was advertising you could use your home equity loan to, among other things, take a vacation! Really, spend one week at a tropical paradise and pay for it for the next several years!? I recall back then thinking how irresponsible this seemed to me at the time.\n\nReagan got elected and deregulation took hold, banks could now get into markets they were prohibited from before. Other products went by the wayside. For example, car loans; usually banks required the purchaser to put down 20% of the cost of a new vehicle and the bank financed the balance. Fast forward to today, the car manufactures are in the lending business now; 0% down, 0% interest, payments over 72 months. And the small loans people used to walk in to the bank to get, they started being handed credit card applications instead.\n\nMortgages that our bank used to hold at very low interest rates, but those old mortgage loans were too expensive to keep on the books. Borrowers were offered discounts if they paid off those old mortgages. The new mortgages the bank made were sold off to institutional investors for cash which the bank would turn around a loan out for shorter term higher interest loans. This is the \"secondary market\" people have heard of.\n\nThen there was the Savings and Loan crisis which is now a distant memory, a forerunner of the 2008 financial meltdown caused by relaxed regulatory enforcement and speculation. The result being \"new\" lending rules had to be put in place. When I get together with my fellow retired banker friends we sort of laugh about how the \"new rules\" were just reimposing many of the rules that already existed back in 1980s.\n\nThe credit scoring is an enigma to me, though. I use my credit card to pay EVERYTHING, bills, utilities, groceries, copays... then pay the balance off each month. For this I am awarded \"points\" every month which I've used to pay for other things. I can pay it off because that was money I was going to spend on all those normal monthly needs I now instead still buy but through a single payment to my credit card. In the entire time I've held that card I've never paid a single penny in interest. Yet my credit score drifts up and down along with that balance each month. The credit bureau doesn't take into account that I pay that off every month, that I have savings and that I have appreciating real estate assets. It is a screwy system. Yet my income would not be enough to pay for what my house would rent for if I didn't own it already outright.\n\nAnd yet all these ancillary things revolve around credit scores; rental availability, job offers, insurance rates, etc. This is totally crazy.", "Okay? And words are just defined by their use. \n\nSo if millions use it one way and millions of another way that's confusing. Neither is more correct than the other. \n\nIt's just a matter of being clear about which definition you are using.", ">On one hand, how else do you determine whether someone is credit worthy unless they establish a credit history?\n\nHow does every other developer country does it? \n\n&#x200B;\n\n>On the other hand, a lot of financially responsible people I know don't use credit and pay off things in their entirety. That is, they don't have and keep debt around.\n\nYes, for the insignificantly tiny percentage of the population that can pay everything they want/need out of pocket.", "Overall, I don't believe him. Individual sentences are true, but the gist of what he says isn't. Banks want profitable customers, but what does that have to do with credit scores? At one point, I heard 1989 in the video. That was about when the internet was becoming popular which would make it easier for banks to share information.", "They exist and are a realty in the US, you should understand how they work if you live in the US. \n\nIf you want to be lent money or an asset you have to show a proven history of paying them back, seems reasonable to me. \n\nPlenty of people live their whole lives without credit scores, just pay for things with your own money, pretty simple.\n\n Just don't expect to be able to borrow money if you don't have established credit scores.", "It's just easier to say contractor than explain what it is I do. I own the route that my business operates on. For me to lose the route the bread company has to show negligible actions by me, malice, or theft. Which means my contract doesn't have an end date.", "The issue with credit scores is not so much that a score exists, for which I would tend to agree it is better as a whole for lenders to be able to assign a risk factor to borrowers, but rather the mechanics in how the score moves. Credit scores have a lot of inertial forces that can bring it down, and not enough to bring it up.\n\nCredit scores have several inflection point in their behavior, with the first range of values (300-700ish) being traced along the on time payment metric. Once you hit 100% on time payments, and maintain that behavior, your credit score will increase less and less as time goes on, ultimately reaching a plateau where your score won't change at all. This will be somewhere around the ballpark of 700-750.\n\nAt a certain point, to push it past 750, you have to start taking out larger and more lines of credit, like a home or car loan, or business starter loan. This makes sense in practice, but it takes far too long to climb the ladder in the current system.\n\nIf your credit score is in the low 600s or even lower, and you land a solid job, start making a decent living, and are making 100% on time payments, it will take you literally years to get afloat to the scores that are basic requirements of a loan for a home or car. With a shaky history that was course corrected, your score might even plateau before the minimum requirements for loans, making it nearly impossible to move up the economic ladder. Make one mistake though, and you aren't worthy of lending to any more, and you have to fight uphill to get back your reputation. With people living paycheck to paycheck, this is basically a revolving trap.\n\nMore so, simple things like paying off loans early, or consolidating debt into one place (reducing lines of credits) start to have detrimental effects to your score, which is completely contrary to risk analysis of credit worthiness.\n\nIf you can pay back a loan early, this means you are a better borrower. Full stop. A personal loan to a friend who needs help works this way, why should loans from banks be treated any differently. Oh wait, I think I know why...\n\n\\--\n\nAs a personal anecdote, I recently decided to pay off my car loan to make budgetary room for monthly savings on a down payment for a house. My credit score dropped from 827, to 734. It took me 3 years to go from 750 to breaking 800. 100% on time payments for 10 years, always pay in full every month, 4 credit cards, no student loans (previously paid off in full). If the system was built to reward good borrowers, my score would not have changed by such a significant amount.\n\nInstead, it's completely obvious what the motives are and I refuse to play the game. I have virtually zero debt beyond the 1-5% monthly credit card usage for groceries and stuff. I'm done with credit going forwards.", "> Neither is more correct than the other.\n \nThat is verifiably wrong. We're not talking about the definition of the word \"literally\" here, there's hundreds of years' worth of academia defining these concepts very clearly. Just because people in the US can't be arsed to use language intelligently doesn't all of a sudden invalidate Karl Marx.", "hAhA PoOr pEoPlE ArE DuMb!!1", "I get where you're coming from, but that still screams high risk from a financial standpoint. Credit score wise you're fine, but when it comes to the income portion it's just too high risk for most banks to want to deal with.", "I don’t understand why I need to get a product I don’t want (credit card) in order to get a loan for something I need (house, because houses are so expensive, partially thanks to banks). I already pay my bills like an adult. I don’t need “discipline” - I don’t buy things I don’t need and I meet my obligations. I’m not sure why you are justifying this system and equivocating it with the right’s zealous overreaction on “crt”.", "I was already alive when one of the biggest banks in america, the bank my mother was then using, referred to black people as \"mud people.\" I mean...", "Take a scroll through this comment section you'll find plenty of people talking about being in debt like it's the greatest thing in the world.", "A lot. We are fairly aggressive in terms on how deep we’ll buy in the sub prime range (typically 640 and below), but there are others that will buy a lot deeper with fewer guidelines/stipulations. We do like somewhere lower scores just because you can get a little more rate, but we don’t hunt down people with prior delinquencies, charge-offs, bankruptcies, garnishments and repos just so we can get 25% APR off them. Some of the highest rates we buy paper at is in the 18% range. That’s for scores down to a 560.", "However you feel about this video, I just want to know how is Wells Fargo still in business? They are just the worst.", "it's not whether the loan gets funded it is the billions of dollars in higher interest rates [not to mention insurance premiums etc] folks pay because \"credit reporting\" has zero incentive to be accurate", "I get that and my comments kinda got further away from what the initial problem was. At each place I went to I had to talk them into seeing my financials after they ran my credit, b/c based on my credit I didn't have the history of big purchases despite holding a good credit score for over a decade.", "Ability to accumulate debt became a new way in which those who have can get more.\n\nWhile in capitalism you could theoretically make money, gather capital and profit of that capital, now you can't even do that (as a regular person).\n\nBanks decide who gets a morthage of 1000$/month instead of paying rent of 1400$/month.\n\nIf you're proper person, who belongs, you get mortgage and get ahead. If you're denied, you became a fodder for the system", "I never understood the opinion that China's social credit system is equivalent to the US credit score. If I had to guess, it's disinformation being spouted by the Chinese government so they can continue to surveil and punish any citizen dissent.\n\nIn the US, the goal of a credit score is solely to judge whether or not you will make good on a loan based off of things like your previous record of paying back loans. In China the social credit score is used to regulate bad behavior (as deemed by the government). There are a few very important differences in the US model that prevents similar abuse:\n\n* The credit scores are not controlled by the government. The people in government can't control the populations with threats of modifying them. This is a good thing because otherwise they could practically keep themselves in power.\n* There are multiple competing credit scores offered by different corporations. Even if all of the existing credit score providers started threatening people that they would lower their score based on some desired outcome - e.g. vote democrats or else we lower your credit score - a different credit score would emerge and quickly become standard if for no other reason than the new score would more accurately reflect an individuals actual ability to repay a loan - which means anyone who loaned money would care much more about the new score if they wanted to maximize their profits.\n\nIs the US credit score perfect? Absolutely not. Does it disproportionately hurt minorities and the poor? Absolutely. However, the fact that we can all openly discuss this without fear of reprisal from the people who control the credit scores means that we can work towards a better system.", "I had a very high credit score for a long time, around 800 or so, then I paid off a car that I had financed and my credit score went down. I thought it would work the other way because I now had less debt, no, it seems the more debt you have as long as you’re keeping up with your payments, the higher your credit score.", "\"Didn't buy into the system? Well, you just should have! Problem solved!\"", "Totally disagree with this video.\n\nI have an 800+ credit score and all I do it pay off my credit each month before they are due. I manage my debt appropriately and don't over leverage myself. In the video they talk about how paying off debt decreases your credit score and that was something that primarily happened with vantage score. Lenders noticed that (realized it wasn't completely relevant) and stopped using vantage score and instead use FICO 8, FICO 9, or FICO 10. Those scoring metrics typically have your score go up when you pay off your debt.\n\nIt isn't difficult to increase your credit score just pay your bills on time and have a history of 3+ years. You'll end up probably 730+ which is enough to get the majority of things you need.", "Think of it this way.\n\n\nAll credit scores do is summarize what is in your credit report in a pretty little number.\n\n\nA house is the largest purchase most people will make. Banks run credit to get some basic info, but will then actually look at the credit report directly themselves and work out your creditworthiness by hand. That's often done by an underwriter. If that underwriter doesn't feel confident enough to assume that risk themselves if things go south, they won't approve. Credit scores really shine for other forms of credit, but for mortgages its a relatively small part of the puzzle. Credit score is just a first step before the big stuff gets put together", "You don’t even have to be a “profitable debt slave” to have good credit. Pay your credit card balance off every month and you’ll have a great credit score and not be very profitable for the credit card company. Credit cards get money in 2 ways: fees for swiping the card from the merchant, and fees / interest from people that carry a balance.\n\nYou can eliminate the latter by just paying your balance every month.", "Enter the 1980s \"People could no longer survive just on their incomes.\"", ">my credit score recently dropped 47 points in one day due to \"high usage\" even though I didn't exceed my limit \n\nThat will be entirely a temporary hit. The \"high usage\" factor they use is % of credit limit. Using less than 30% of your credit limit is good, using over that will hurt. If you can get under 10%, your score will go way up. \n\nWay you can easily solve this is a couple days before your credit card statement comes out, pay off the balance in full. Then, when your statement comes out, your credit usage is going to be less than 5%. Your credit score will absolutely shoot up a ton overnight. \n\nAnother solution is to open more credit cards to increase your limits. I spend maybe $2K a month using credit cards, but have enough cards where my combined limit is about $125K, so I'm staying under 2% usage every month even without doing the trick I just mentioned.", "Millions use the word the wrong way. If I called you a giraffe, then it doesn’t make you a giraffe.", "Yeah the comparison is based on name alone. The two systems have almost nothing in common besides assigning you a score.", "Yeah but not having open credit accounts is a detriment to your score. I've never had a credit card in my life, never took out loans, always made my payments on time, and my score is still 630 because I refuse to go into debt to make it go up. I shouldn't have to use credit to prove I can handle debt when my history proves I don't bite more than I can chew. It's ass backwards if you ask me.", "If you qualify for membership at a credit union do not even go near a bank. Unfortunately a credit union is not an option for everyone. If it is for you then ditch your bank!", "It’s absolutely a scam.", "Same shit happened to me and I don’t even work with cash. Have always had a 750+ score and any loan that is reasonable with my income now I always have a hassle or co-sign with because of lack of history. Have always been on top of bills, car payments, student loans, all the basics. Still had to co-sign my most previous car and would have to co-sign anything house related…", "Would love to know the kind of place you got for £36k, when, and where!", "They use similar metrics, usually based on financial history they can determine, how long you've been employed, salary, etc. Some countries, like the UK, do use a credit system similar to the US\n\nhttps://www.businessinsider.com/credit-score-around-the-world-2018-8", "Do you not understand the concept of risk...?", "Hoooo boy is this comment out of touch.", ">PragerU does not, because it can't.\n\nOr they provide citations but leave out half of the info, or the fact that the sources cited are also biased.", "My brother ran into a problem with this when he went to get his first loan. He had never used a credit card or taken out a loan up to that point. Feeling financially responsible, he decided to pay for everything with cash or a debit card so he would never spend money he didn't have. But that sort of behavior paradoxically gives you a bad credit score.\n\nAfter that my parents gave me a credit card under my name that they paid off for me in order to give me some good credit and avoid this problem happening again.", "Lol the fucking Gravel Institute with another zinger", "Usage means that you closed the month with a high percentage of your CC balances in use. \n\nThat being said, usage has no memory. If you get your balances down under 30% by the next month, those points will all come back.\n\nThere is no reason to be obsessed with your month over month score unless you are about to purchase something (other then for security of course).\n\nIf you are concerned, pay off your balance before your CC company assesses your bill that month and it will be reported as 0.\n\nIt’s not a scam, it’s just got some rules you can easily follow if you are aware of. They’re just somewhat arcane and take more work the. They should to understand.", "That's precisely my point. You said to pay for everything you possibly can with credit cards but not if they puts you above the arbitrary 30% line that makes completely no sense considering they're not the ones you have the credit agreement with.", "Even if you had done car through credit it may not have been enough, I’ve run into the same problems. There is no laid out path for how to build your credit history if you’re working from the bottom up.", "I'm in the same situation. I have student loans so I've been \"building credit\" for the last 5 years but I also had to get a credit card, that I use to pay utilities and then pay that off each month, with what I would have paid directly to the companies. That was the only way I could get my score to budge and now I have another open account. Though my credit advisor says you should have at least 5 open accounts that you owe debt and are making regular payments. It's shitty. You have to go into debt, to prove you can pay a debt, when you weren't living above your means in the first place to need debt. It's stupid.", "I know you read the sentence literally just before that, so what point do you think you're making?", "Oh I know. I'm in the 810+ club with just 3 lines of credit and paying my shit off monthly. That's why I find this video so ridiculous. You can totally have excellent credit by just practicing basic financial common sense.", "I'm self employed and needed a longer history of income when getting approved for mortgage. Especially if you have a relatively higher income they want to make sure your last year wasn't a fluke and it's a consistent income. Even with a credit score just under 800 there was a lot of back and forth with the mortgage company about my self employment income.", "Right and I understand that, but after they ran my credit the score or summary it wasn't enough to even send it to the underwriter to assess my financials more thoroughly. Despite an 800 score. \n\nI understand everything that happened after, but the initial problem was that my high credit I had to plead to get my foot in the door. That's a shit system", "I've heard them described as conservatives who like weed.", "Using a large percentage of your available credit dings your credit report. This is no big deal unless you are apply for credit at that moment. As you pay off those items your credit will drop again.\n\nIf you are close to maxed out, it makes you a risk if you seek new lines of credit.\n\nDespite what reddit pretends, credit scores are super easy.\n\n* Pay existing debts in a timely and consistent manner. This can be by paying them off or paying the interest.\n* What is your longest active line of credit, a credit card is good here.\n* What is your total credit?\n* What percentage of that credit is currently in use?\n* What recent credit inquiries have you made?\n* Do you have a lot of new accounts?\n\nYou can literally get good credit by using a credit card for purchases and paying it off. It shortcuts the issue of paying off your car loan or home loan. It is also pretty obvious what some of these can be a problem. A bunch of new accounts can indicate you are starting to get in trouble and loading up on debt you won't be able to pay back.\n\nYes, part of the score is meant to help find those whales who will forever be floating credit card debt. However, it also greatly expanded credit availability. They try and present credit scores as racist, but before credit scores they just wouldn't give the loan to minorities. With the credit score everyone is playing the same fairly transparent game.", "> but I feel like the topics taught there would be attacked by the far left the same way the right attacks what they view to be CRT\n\nThat’s a pretty bold statement. Is there any precedent to suggest that would be the case?", "Yeah, you lose your proof of an ongoing relationship. It's not ideal, but rather an artifact of cobbling a score from individual relationships.\n\nIt shouldn't have been a huge hit though. Open a no-fee credit card and pay it off every month and you'll have a history that quickly builds back up.", "They're all functionally equivalent, only differing in specifics. It's just a calculation of how risky someone is to lend to. No where in the world are people given non-charitable loans without taking that into account.", "On paper you are unproven. Its like having a blank resume and getting frustrated the company doesn't understand your potential. I'd recommend having a credit card with even $500-1k low limit and paying it off. That plus employment you will be approved for any loan in your price range.", "I learned the TSA (Airport security) runs credit checks because you're more likely to take bribes or other illegal favors if your have a poor credit score. So that's one job I know that will deny you.\n\nIn fact, I think most government/security jobs will deny you.", "That's what they said though. The system rewards taking on the largest sum of debt possible that you can pay off. Or putting it the way you said it, more credit use with a record of paying it off.", "How are brokerage investments & retirement assets factored in? Do they count at all, if not assigning for collateral? I'm not showing income from them so they wouldn't show up on tax returns.", "You say that, but I know quite a few people who will refuse to watch news clips just because they see Fox News in the corner. Bias can be a real big turn off, even if the report itself is factual.", "I mean the bank just takes the house back at that point. And I don’t see how this addresses that people do need a place to live… \n\nThe hoops to jump through are not laid out for the layman, and most people only find this out once they start applying in their mid adult life and by that point it’s too late. Doesn’t seem like a fair system to me.", "Hahahaha, in first world countries, majority of the time yes.", "Nothing changed in my lending history except paying off one of my student loan groups and my score dropped by 30 points for 6 months. It recovered higher than it was, but ending a line of credit reduces the average age of your accounts and the amount of accounts in good order you have, which are both factors in your score.", "My balance wasn't even due yet, and I paid it off before it was. The point is you shouldn't pay everything you possibly can on the credit card, because even that can hurt you. It's all arbitrary, meaningless bullshit, meant to hurt the consumer. The more rules to follow, the more buckets of money you need to shuffle your digital bits around (seriously, what's the point in having a bucket of money [your checking account], paying for something with your banks bucket of money, then transferring money from your bucket to your banks bucket, when you could simply pay with the money from your bucket up front?), the easier it is to screw up and lower your score.", "The right calls everyone left of them a socialist. The word is losing its meaning.", "Start your credit early, pay it off every month, and keep that account open for the rest of your life. The easiest way to a good history. Your large balances with revolving debt will come naturally through financing. No real need to keep balances on revolving accounts just to prove you can.", "What really gets my goat is when my credit card total goes up, say around Christmastime, and my credit score goes down week by week, but when I pay it off the next month, that score definitely does NOT bounce back up until a couple of months later", "Yeah that's not unusual. Since maybe back in april/may of 2020, self employment guidelines have become more document intensive and less self employed clients are getting approved.\n\n I don't think this is correct but there is not much I can do about it. In my opinion if your business did well in 2020 and 2021 then risk is little to no different than a w2 borrower.", "Yep. Do credit card companies take advantage of financially illiterate people? Sure. Is it the Credit Card company's fault? Maybe. I'd argue the benefits of cheap credit far outweigh the costs, and you can't structure a society around protecting the stupid from themselves.", "Small time landlord here, i don't charge extra for someone based on credit score, and in fact, my lawyer would probably yell at me if i even suggested the idea. Its just a factor in my approval process to help me assess the risk of a tenant, because there is a BIG risk to me with every tenant i take on. I don't have a magic number i look for, but may ask some extra questions if its a crazy low score. If its a crazy high score, maybe I don't bother with a security deposit (its extra bookkeeping for me).\n\nThe number is a general guide, but for stuff beyond a store credit card or whatever, they are looking into specific factors, primarily debt to income and payment history to figure out where you fall on their risk profile and what rate you will pay.", "I actually feel like nobody on Reddit has bothered to read up on China's social credit score. How many people here even know that it primarily focuses on businesses? Yeah, a government wants it's businesses to behave a certain way. That's hardly dystopian.", "I wouldn't dismiss a Fox News clip just because it's Fox News. I'd also give them credit if they said something I agree with. That's almost never the case though.", "credit scores are total shit.\n\nI was trying to buy a new car and my score isnt great. tried to get approved but costs were just too high. My dad agreed to co-sign.\n\nby my dad being involved, with a much better credit score, got the whole value of the car dropped by like $5k\n\nhow the fuck is that ok? Why does having a better credit score lower the value of the product? thats bs.", "This is not an example of that. Liberalism is the name for a specific ideology, it is just that American political discourse is so slanted to the right that left- wing Americans are required to support a Liberal party. It is either that of a far-right party.\n\nThe Democrats in the USA may be the relatively 'left wing' party, but they are centre right. This is why the right wing party in Australia is the Liberals, and why the centre right party in the UK is the Liberal Democrats.\n\nSaying liberal=left us a mistake Americans make because they only pay attention to their own system, and that system is massively skewed.", "It's the way negativity affects our brains - using the \"fight or flight\" response of the amygdala to quickly form emotional reactions. It gets views, discussions, and ultimately ad views. And if the misleading information gets you annoyed because you know better, the net result is still the exact same. \n\nPeople should be informed on how credit scores work. It's good to understand them and manage your finances. But a neutrally fact-based post will never get the kind of reaction possible with \"It's a scam! They're out to get you!\"", "Anyone who explains how the system works in this thread is attacked. You yourself are attacking me as \"justifying the system.\" I bet my bottom dollar teaching these concepts in school would be branded as indoctrination.", "I have to say, growing up in the 70s I don't remember seeing credit cards used at all, by my parents or my friends parents. Everything was cash or check. By the time I was in my early 20s in the 90s they were starting to be handed out like candy.", "Of course credit is a scam. The only people who believe otherwise are the people that have always had good credit and don't understand the myriad layers of nuance to it and how hard it is to achieve a good credit score if you've ever made a mistake. \n\nThose people also don't understand how much they benefit from it in ways that most people never will.\n\nIt's a joke of a system, especially because employers are allowed to use it against you. As are insurance companies.\n\nCredit could have been a fine concept, if it didn't get ruined by greed like everything else.\n\nAnd even as people in general start to understand it better and develop better credit habits, the system just constantly finds new ways to make it difficult for people to succeed.\n\nIt's a scam in every sense.", "AKA Capitalism.", "Did you watch a different video? Or maybe stop halfway through?\n\nI thought he was talking very plainly, but apparently the message went over a lot of people's heads.", "> Pay cash for your car\n\nNo thanks. Paying cash with such low interest rates would be asinine. You're borrowing money for free, especially with inflation as high as it is.", "It's not that Experian, TransUnion, or Equifax is a scam that weirds me out. It's that they are these private companies that track my shit, and my ability to get certain things depends on their work. Since they've proven themselves to be faulty in many ways, it's just a bit weird that they are allowed to be in such positions of power..", "Sure there is. Get a credit card and use it for small everyday things.\n\nIf you can't get a credit card, get a secured card. It basically works like a debit card but it affects your credit history.", "When your payment is due has nothing to do with usage, only with whether or not your payment is late.\n\nLook I can understand it’s frustrating, but your problems with the credit system aren’t because it’s arbitrary, it’s because you haven’t taken the time to learn how the system works. The fact that you don’t understand usage, one of the most basic things about the system and how usage affects your score is a very telling indicator of that.\n\nBefore calling the system arbitrary or bullshit, you should take the time to understand how it works.", "It doesn't reward the largest sum of debt, it rewards patterns of being \"in debt\" month after month.\n\nIt counts if you put a $1 charge on your card, then pay it off after the statement cuts but before you're charged interest. Do that every month, you're seen as \"in debt\" every month even though you're still in the grace period where you don't owe any interest, and you're seen as a \"responsible\" creditor because you're making all your \"payments.\"", "You don't have to go into any debt whatsoever to establish a good credit score. You don't need to be in debt just because you have a credit card. Use the card and pay it off the entire balance by the due date. No debt and not a penny paid in interest.", "Risk? Bitch please. Do you know how a bank works? They take the money that isn't even theirs to invest and borrow to others while charging massive amounts of interest and give you, the real one person taking the risk a whopping 2% or even charging you a monthly fee. How many citizens got fucked by putting their money into banks for them to lose it? Millions. How many CEO or chairpeople were ever held responsible for the global catastrophes caused by their greed? fucking zero.\n\nBut yeah, I only developed banking software and work financial markets for a living. wtf do i know.", "The Gravel Institute is a fucking stupid organization that was funny at first but then literally just became left wing prager u", "The rules all being written down and understood don't make it less of a scam. I understand from the credit companies' perspective why having multiple lines of credit is helpful to them. At the same time though, having multiple lines of credit open is not helpful to me except for the fact that people judge me by it. It has a bad outcome for the average person because it represents what companies' care most about in profit.\n\nPayday loan companies are something where the rules are (more or less) in the open. You get quick money now for exorbitant interest rates. Anyone will tell you these are a scam because the amount of money you have to pay them back is ridiculous for a quick loan. You could say that that's how they need to make money because these people are irreputable borrowers and yes, that's true, but the point is that its creating bad outcomes for the average person who uses it.", "> Make one mistake though, and you aren't worthy of lending to any more, and you have to fight uphill to get back your reputation.\n\nAnecdotally, it's not as dramatic. I've accidentally missed a line of credit payment. I thought my score was farked after that. Nope, nothing significant happened. I've missed cc min payments a couple of times too, and that didn't hurt either. I think inertia goes both ways.", "If you max out your card then pay it off before the statement, it won’t report you showing any usage at all. If you want to use more credit, get more cards or pay it off before the statement comes.", "Love seeing the Gravel Institute here. Wasn't going to expect it on reddit", "Are you showing large losses on your taxes for your business? If you are, that's why you're not getting approved. Showing losses for tax purposes but not showing them when you want loans is called fraud.", "Sure. A 2-bed [cottage flat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage_flat) with garden, in [North Ayrshire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ayrshire), late 2020.\n\nhttps://imgur.com/a/TsjlZHx\n\nhttps://imgur.com/a/fFsi0Er", "Credit scores also appear to be meaningless when it comes to determining the actual cost of a loan. For example, some bank advertises loans at x% - y% interest. They're going to determine that y% is appropriate for you, whether your credit score is 600 or 830. \n\nI have yet to discover any real benefit to a high credit score.", "My credit score fluctuates from month to month but I take on no new credit at all and always pay everything on time.\n\nScam.", "> if you live in the US\n\nThankfully I don't.", "How long did you miss the payment for? Most missed payments don't actually get reported for 60 days, but they definitely have a largely detrimental effect when that happens.", "It is a scam, but it's a scam you're forced to take part in.", "Like when a bunch of militant liberals decided for everyone that it was a good idea to replace the word egalitarian with feminism.\n\nGuess I struck a nerve with that one.", ">You all need to tell this to the person I replied to, who suggested to pay for everything you possibly can with a credit card. \n\nI explained two ways in my comment where you can still use a credit card for everything and keep your usage low. Both would absolutely solve the point your trying to make.", "> and it does not require massive amounts of debt. \n\nIt doesn't require immediate debt, but it does require tying up your finances in instruments that can make your money less accessible, thereby potentially adding to scenarios where you suddenly end up in debt.\n\nPersonally, I don't have a credit card, I only pay a mortgage and I finished paying off my car years ago. I have plenty of money in a checking account and almost as much invested in stock, almost 6 figures worth, and my yearly salary is at 6 figures as well. My credit score is not as stellar as you'd expect. I'm at 678, even though I never missed any payment anywhere in years.", "That might be it. I think it was 20 days max for me.", "Ah yes, just open a credit card and you immediately get approved for a house loan. Credit line histories are nowhere near that simple. As somebody that has been in the house buying process for 2-years I don’t think you’ve actually had to go through these negotiations with a co-signer.", "Everyone in this thread who is trying to explain how the system works is being attacked as justifying the system. You dont see how teaching concepts like building credit would be viewed as indoctrination by these same people?", "If you have no debt, a paid off house, and plenty of savings, do you really care what your credit score is?\n\nIt's not hard to build it up. Keep a no-fee card or line of credit open and paid off. They want to see that you're reliable with credit - and having no ongoing proof is not as good as having a responsible history. It's just sensible, not a \"scam\". But if you aren't in a position to care that's OK too.", "Nope, taxes are in order and do not show a loss.", "I mean plenty of liberals complain about capitalism and US economic systems, but you don’t see leftists attacking those courses. So no, I don’t see how the left would attack those in the same way. Home Econ classes come from a place of trying to understand a system we all participate in, attacks on CRT come from denying certain aspects of US history.", "I watched one of their other videos and I have to agree. Even though their message generally meshes with my political leaning, this channel is very light on facts and heavy on rhetoric.", "> I'd also give them credit if they said something I agree with.\n\nGive them credit if they say something truthful. What's the point of news if it tells you something you already know, or credit to something you already give credence to? \n\nBut I wasn't accusing you personally of that. I was saying it's not uncommon, and I don't know why they seem so hated for it when I could place solid bet that many of the downvoters do the same thing.", "Utility companies don't report missed payments to the credit bureaus.", "> My balance wasn't even due yet, and I paid it off before it was.\n\nIf you want to keep it off of usage, you pay it before your statement comes out, not before your balance is due.", "The issue here isn't necessarily risk. Because it is about profits not risk.\n\nOne main issue the video touches is getting people into sub prime loans even when the qualifies for prime Because it keeps them in that middle ground.\n\nThe video is not saying that a credit score is bad, it is saying our current credit score is bad. Not because it cares about risk because it cares about trapping people in a need for befit to generate profit.\n\nYou even yourself has said it is not perfect, so why defend something that is not perfect, why not improve on it? We know that these scores are used to determine who will likely stay in debt and continue to pay interest over those who pay it off, so why not change how the score is calculated, be open and honest about it with people, and make it so it isn't predatory to the poor?", "> Yeah, a government wants it's businesses to behave a certain way. That's hardly dystopian. \n\nThere's a difference between a system of government with codified laws and corresponding punishments for violations and having a government that arbitrarily punishes companies or disappears CEOs for doing something they don't like today.", "If you're \"done with credit\", why care about your score at all? Was there something you wanted to do at 734 score that made you wish you were 827 again? Or is it just in your head because this is theoretical?\n\nYour ultimate point is good: don't take debt you don't need just for a game. Having too much can easily trap you. But there's no need for this information to be cloaked in negativity. Everyone should know how scores work and manage accordingly.", "The arguments in this video fail on a fundamental level. They argue that credit card companies want to create these \"debt-prone consumers\" that hold a lot of debt and pay a lot of interest. These customers are the profitable ones whereas the responsible credit card users that pay off their balance every month are not. \n\nIf that is the case, then why are companies more likely to loan money in higher amounts to people with good credit scores? Why would they be loaning more money to people who will generate them less profits? \n\nAnother dumb statement: \"Your credit score rewards you not for making decisions that actually help you financially but for taking on the maximum amount of debt that you can possibly repay\".\nYou can and will have a great credit score if you pay off your credit card balance every month, paying zero interest at all. Taking on the maximum amount of debt possible will not raise your credit score, paying off your debt on time will.", "just because you provide a citation doesn't mean you're telling the truth or facts.", "Yeah but redditors get to feel like they are epiclly owning le Pooh Bear China and saving the world through posting if they make fun of China's credit scores.", "Then maybe we should design a system where your score doesn't drop when you pay back your loans??", "\"I shouldn't have to prove I can drive just to get a license.\"", "I paid a credit card, student loan, and my car off last year and was so stoked because I thought my credit score would shoot to the moon as that was my only debt aside from my mortgage. Unexpectedly, it went down because my account with my car loan, and my student loan were closed due to being fulfilled. The explanation that I got was that 'you need x amount of active accounts to favorably impact your credit score.'\n\nSo I'm more or less getting penalized on my credit score because I don't have enough lines of credit anymore. Borrow more, got it. How dare you pay off your debts.", "> How does every other developer country does it?\n\nCredit scores, but either by a different name or handled slightly differently. I know a lot of European countries for example have a system where you don't get any feedback unless you specifically do something that detracts from your score. In principle, however, all these systems work exactly the same.", "I understand it. And yet, it is arbitrary and bullshit.", "It really sounds like you've never seen your actual credit report. They're extremely detailed and run around 30 pages depending on your history.\n\nwww.annualcreditreport.com is the website required by federal law where all the reporting bureaus must make their credit reports available for free. If you didn't get it from that website chances are you've never actually seen your credit report before.", "Thanks for no information on what to do but hints that it's possible. What a crock a crap", "Depends on your mindset. If you can pay for a car up front, then you own your car outright and won't have to pay for it.\n\nIt could be nicer to pay it off over time with no interest, certainly, but a lot can change in 5 years. A job loss could happen, then you're stuck having to come up with money for it.", "He didn't defend credit scores. He defended making factual arguments.\n\nWhy are you defending lying?", "you sound like a conspiracy theorist.", "Well yeah, that to. I give them credit when they say something truthful.", "I'm so glad we don't have a credit score. Not only is a credit score a scam, it has some equivalence to the social credit score. Rating your credit on \"being poor and therefore could not make payments\" is inherently wrong.", "Deregulation was the problem??? Ya right. Getting off the gold standard, huge amounts of fed involvement in loans.", "> The word is losing its meaning.\n\nSame with \"racist.\"", "So I've read over these comments.\n\nPeople: So what do we do? \nOP: We discuss it. \nPeople: We're discussing it now. What do we do? \nOP: Why don't you go Google what to do? \nPeople: I Googled what to do. Do you want to discuss what came up? \nOP: You didn't Google enough. Google more.\n\nIf you say \"Have a serious discussion\" and then walk away from that very discussion, you are not only part of the problem - you are THE problem. You're not trying to fix shit. You're not here to discuss shit. You just like to stir shit.", "I hope you've read these well-informed responses and learned something about getting your info unchecked from a video posted to reddit.", "That's a dumb comparison. I shouldn't have to take out debt to prove I pay my bills on time, hence no collections, judgements or garnishments. If not paying my electric can be reported as unpaid debt, then it stands to reason that same account should be reporting on time payments. So what does that mean? Even if you have accounts (if they aren't credit) they count against you but not for you. Again it's backwards. \n\n\nI missed the part where you have to take a test every time you get behind the wheel.", "People with lower access to education are not as smart, crazy.", "no, that's libertarians\n\nliberals are happy to imprison people for posession", "Was it your first house you tried to buy? As a first time home buyer it should've been easy to get a government backed loan.", "k", "I'm honestly surprised people in this thread didn't already know this basic information.\n\nI'm also annoyed that it took so long to say essentially two sentences worth of actual information", "Seems that most of the people who have issues with credit scores usually have bad ones. When you are 180 days late on your car/cc/whatever payment, the effects are generally negative. No one to blame but themselves.", "You need to find a company that does “manual underwriting” which they don’t use the credit score, but actually look at your income, debt, and such. \n\nLike how things worked before credit score existed as it does now", "Have you checked CreditKarma type sites or r/personalfinance or r/CRedit ? I assume you have at least a little since you know what your score was, but they tend to have tips about what you can improve.", ">besides assigning you a score. \n\nThe issue is how the system works. The US credit score is inherently dysfunctional.", "Is everything okay? reddit comments should not be how you get all your information, Nor am I going to type out an essay on how to establish and maintain credit. \n\n[Try looking around on Nerd Wallet, plenty of good info there](https://www.nerdwallet.com/hub/category/credit-score?trk=nw_gn_5.0)", "It sounds like you don't since the thing you complained about you can very easily solve without changing your spending at all if you understand how it works.", "Mate, you most obviously do not understand the system.\n\nLike, why would you possibly think that putting all the spending you could in credit would help your credit score? That doesn’t even make sense? How would someone putting all their spending on credit be viewed as a good thing by a creditor? Lol even if you pay it off every month that would still be viewed as a bad thing from a creditors POV. \n\nYou don’t understand the difference between your balance due date and billing cycle close date or how that difference and when you pay impacts your credit score.\n\nBut by all means, keep claiming the you understand the system. It’s obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of it that you do not.", ">You even yourself has said it is not perfect, so why defend something that is not perfect, why not improve on it?\n\nI never said we couldn't improve it lol. All I said was the video wasn't accurate\n\n\n>We know that these scores are used to determine who will likely stay in debt and continue to pay interest over those who pay it off,\n\n\nThey give loans to as risky borrowers as they can. They target people that can pay back their loans. That includes people that don't generate profit from the bank (no interest or fees paid by the consumer) down to as low as they can go.", "> The rules all being written down and understood don't make it less of a scam. \n\nA scam literally requires some form of deception for it to be a scam.\n>having multiple lines of credit open is not helpful to me except for the fact that people judge me by it\n\n\"It's not helpful except when helpful\". Ok then. Showing that you are worthy of being given credit is literally the point.\n>It has a bad outcome for the average person \n\nNot really. If we didn't have something like this then lenders would revert to less specific loan conditions meaning you can't take advantage of being financially responive (or less so). They'd probably raise average interest to cope with the now increased default rate due to less precise pre-selection.\n>the point is that its creating bad outcomes for the average person who uses it\n\nThat's not the definition of a scam though. You're aren't being scammed, you are just being financially irresponsible.", "How does that hurt the consumer? You’re acting like you have a right to borrow money from others. If banks want to follow some arbitrary formula for them to feel comfortable giving out quarter+ million dollar loans so some no name for a mortgage, then bless em. You’re focusing so much on critiquing small minute details that you’re forgetting what it’s even about. Okay, so you think this way of evaluating is dumb, how else would you construct a credit system? I bet that whatever you’re thinking, the founders of these credit companies thought the exact same way a hundred years ago. The only difference is, the more money they started to handle, the more accurate the credit system needs to be in determining who is and isn’t going to default on their loans. All the big, easy factors such as going bankrupt and making on time payments have already been figured out. The reason why they want you to have multiple credit lines, the reason why they don’t want you maxing out your cards every month, is because the data is going to show that people that take the time and effort to juggle around and manage their money (regardless of how ‘relevant’ you think this exercise is) in accordance to these metrics are going to be the ones that are thinking ahead and less likely going to default. It sucks to not be approved for a car loan or mortgage, but keep in mind there’s a million other people just like you but not quite, and unfortunately they have to choose a cut-off somewhere.", "I don't disagree, Equifax in particular is pretty bad in terms of security and business practices.\n\nBut if you want to play the game you have to dance according to the music. I am not saying is right, just the way it is.", "Understanding how something works doesn't suddenly make it not arbitrary? In fact, the more I learn about it, the more arbitrary it gets.", "> as long as people understand they are bad we don't have to be right\n\nsums up most of GravelInstitute's content.\n\nThey openly brand themselves as the PragerU of the left.", "> The video was explaining the point of a credit score was so banks and lenders can better target people for high interest.\n\nThis frames it in a nefarious light, but at the end of the day, if you don't charge people more likely to default more interest, you'll lose all your money. Even if you repossess the car, you'll lose money if it's totaled or not maintained properly. It sounds like that car dealership was just scamming people who were bad at math, which has nothing to do with FICO scores.", "23 and still can't grasp why this fake number has to go down if it's checked", "I'm saying you don't understand how it works. I made no statement on if credit scores are arbitrary. \n\nBut, if you know how they're calculated, you can very easily maintain a high credit score with minimal effort as the factors in a credit score are pretty easy to adjust.", "Maybe you should see my edit to my original comment in this thread. I was replying to someone who said to do all your spending on credit cards, and I replied with a tale of what happened recently when I let a significant amount of spending go on my credit card.", "I just had it mine drop 13 points last week because I put a car repair on one of my cards and the autopayment (in full) isn't due yet. You know what I did? I got pissed in exactly the way that a political shitpost on reddit wants me to and decried it all as a scam.\n\nNo, wait that would be silly.\n\nWhat I actually did was realize it doesn't matter, and will self-correct once it pays off. Which will be well before I need any new credit anyway. Because it makes sense. If I came to you for a loan, wouldn't you be at least slightly more wary if you realized I had just borrowed a bunch of money from other people too?", "Then they should be able to live within their means outside the system. Why is person B entitled to a loan from anybody? Imagine yourself from the perspective of the lender. Why in the world would you lend someone with a blank slate a quarter+ million for a mortgage?", "Well duh? Am I talking to capt obvious here?", "That’s not neoliberalism?", "It has problems sure, but it is generally useful for determining someone's reliability to pay a loan.", "What makes you think that anyone believes that borrowing is free money?", "Which facts were you missing here?", "You sound like you don't know how banks work", "You’re thinking of libertarians. Capitalism ≠ conservative, for example socdems.", "> but your problems with the credit system aren’t because it’s arbitrary\n\nYes of course, if you know how the scored are arbitrarily calculated, you can easily maintain a high credit score. As in my original point, that you can't just simply pay for everything on your credit score. You need to know how to play the game.", "it isn't that bad\n\n\npeople on reddit are clickbaiting\n\n\nyou can still take out loans at either the best rates or close to the best rates even if you aren't 800+\n\n\ndon't believe everything you read on reddit please", "Were you looking at your score directly from the credit bureaus or through a third party like Credit Karma? Credit card companies typically don't report single day usage like that. All reporting is done on your billing cycle date.", "A lot of liberals on this site call any kind of government spending socialism, too.", "Gravel institute, facts? Lol.", "They're not deciding my future. They're deciding their future. If you don't want to be part of their future then the worst they can do to you is want the exact same thing.", "Because you are still wrong lol. You can absolutely put 100% of your spending on your card and have it be good for your credit. You just need to have high limits relative to what you spend. Or low expenses. For some people putting all their spending on their card benefits their score because it gives them sufficient usage.\n\nNot to mention that’s how you work the rewards system.\n\nRegardless of all that, even if your high level point had been correct it was still filled with inaccuracies that deserved correction.\n\nAlso, OP you are referring to didn’t say when to pay the balances. Folks watching their utilization will often pay the balance off before it’s assessed, which is the correct way to do it. \n\nAnd again. Utilization has no memory. It does not matter unless you are about to apply for credit and if so, lower your utilization for the month.", "The thing I like about this comment is, it was replied to me after I made my edit, where I was clarifying that I'm literally suggesting that it isn't a good idea to run up your card.", "You quoted someone else's comments, not mine. I never made any statements about credit systems being arbitrary. \n\nYou can absolutely pay for everything on your credit cards if you know how it works... and it absolutely isn't hard at all to do.", "> a bank has nothing to determine their risk in giving you a loan.\n\nHow about a steady work history and being able to live a stable financial life? Borrowing just to prove you can return what you borrowed is absurd.\n\nEspecially the credit card system is astoundingly predatory and I can't see any actual benefits to it. I am glad I live in a country where they are almost nonexistent and where this kind of credit score system does not exist. \n\nThere are complaints about politics in this thread, but it should be exactly things like this that a government should protect people from. Can't perfectly micromanage people's finances to squeeze out every last bit of profit, plus create weak points that are harmful to those struggling with poverty? Tough titties. \n\nThere is a lot to discuss around things like this ut I can tell you one thing with absolute 100% certainty - if banks had a harder time with profiting from loans, bankers would not be eating plain rice and the world will not have an economic collapse. They do not deserve a world where it's their interests that are prioritized.", "Indeed, why would a credit card company dislike you being 20-50 days late? You activated the penalty rates, but you still paid them back, now with extra!", "I have near 0 utilization, no delinquency, nothing in collections. And it’s been stuck at 700 for a year because of some student loan late payments 3 years ago even though my pay on time is 99%. You are wrong man. There’s nothing else I can do to raise it", "> You can absolutely put 100% of your spending on your card and have it be good for your credit.\n\n...\n\n>You just need to have high limits relative to what you spend.\n\nOh ok. Your financial status and spending needs just have to magically coordinate with each other, in order to use your credit card for 100% of your purchases. Good luck finding someone who can live on $300 a month. So yes, if all your financial needs fit within 30% of your credit limit, sure by all means, only use your credit card. For everyone else that isn't so lucky, you need to put some thought into it.", "Well when you mock people for things outside their control it sounds like you thought it's their fault, my bad.", ">Credit was sold as a tool to help people get ahead, but it is really has become a tool to extract profit from the poor and working class.\n\n\nthis is just blatantly misleading\n\n\nall this hyperbole just makes people want to call BS on the claims", "The video is factually incorrect on many points. If a good FICO score = people that the industry could easily milk, then people that have high credit utilization would have higher scores. That isn't based in fact.", "Will second this. Many Americans including myself aren't say \n\n>\"China's social credit system is dystopian and terrifying! SO EVIL! Unlike our FREEDOM™ demo-credit system.\" \n\n>*\"P.S. GOD BLESS AMERICA! USA!USA!USA!USA!USA!\"\n\nAmericans are looking at it from our side and going.\n\n>\"Holy fuck. Our credit system is cancerous af already. The CCP adopting this with their strict control regime, data collection, and disregard for human rights is a very slippery slope to bad things for the Chinese citizenry. It will be like adding radioactive steroids to the cancer that is our credit score system. No one deserves this scoring b.s. pushed on them. God bless them.\"", "people in the US love to talk about how Denmark is so great, but if you actually enforced Danish laws on Americans they would cry racism", "...you do have a right to borrow money, when you signed a mutual contract with a lender who agreed to lend you money. And my credit system would look to see if you paid your lender on time, and how much of your debt you paid off on that due date.", "You don't need a high limit. If you pay off your balance before your statement comes out, you can use credit cards for everything and not hurt your credit score, even with low credit limits. \n\nYour credit limit could be $1000, but you could spend over $5000 a month on that card and still keep your usage low.", "No I dont mock them. Just stating how simple it is to get a good credit score and you are the one who talked about poor people. IDK why.", "preach on brother\n\n\nyou can tell who is a teenager on this sub \n\n\nits actually freaking ridiculous", "My apologies. \n\n>You can absolutely pay for everything on your credit cards if you know how it works\n\nNo, listen. I was on a call with TransUnion over that, you need to keep it to at least under 30% of your credit limit.", "I was reading the whole page. I didn't refresh right before typing the reply to you on the chance that you edited.\n\nIf we agree, that's great. I also wouldn't advise putting everything on a card without regard to utilization. But I do think \"arbitrary fucking scam\" is absolutely the wrong message.", "Right. You need to put some thought into it. \n\nOr you can just not put all your expenses on credit.\n\nOr you could learn how the system works and put expenses on there up to 30% of your limit.\n\nOr you could realize that utilization has no memory and doesn’t matter if you aren’t applying for shit right that second.\n\nIt only looks like magic if you don’t understand how it works", "Absolutely. There is a list of references in the videos comments.", ">I was reading the whole page. I didn't refresh right before typing the reply to you on the chance that you edited.\n\nFair enough, and we agree on everything except it being a total arbitrary scam.", "Yes, but that is only calculated based what is on your statement. \n\nIf your statement comes out on the 30th of the month, you can go in, pay your balance on the 29th, and when your statement posts it will show your spending at 0% of your credit limit. The credit companies only see what's on your statement. \n\nIt's a problem that's extremely easy to solve and instead of taking this advice and going \"oh, OK, I'll do that\" you're trying to argue that it is still impossible to spend everything on credit.", "There's a colloquial scam and a definitional scam. If someone asked me \"Hey would you use a payday loan service?\" I would probably say \"No, its a scam\". Because even if all of the terms are available to you, you shouldn't do it because it has bad expected value (and they advertise like that isn't the case).\n\nLanguage can be used in multiple ways and if your argument is to go to dictionary.com and read what is says and you think that's your best argument you've already lost.\n\n>\"It's not helpful except when helpful\". Ok then. Showing that you are worthy of being given credit is literally the point.\n\nYou are so fucking dense.\n\nAnyways it just seems like your main gripe with the video is that they said \"scam\" instead of \"don't work the way you think\" or some shit. Which, guess what, literally every YouTube video has a clickbait title and you're over here getting all worked up about this one for some reason.", "You're playing a dangerous game if you do that. Odds are pretty easy they catch you in a moment a payment hasn't gone through. If you have the funds to pay off 5k in spending and only have a 1k limit, just spend 300 on the credit card, and 4700 on your debit card.", "i think the real takeaway from this thread that people need to learn is that your credit score isn't the only factor lending institutions look at when giving out loans\n\n\nthere are a lot of other factors that can make you a large risk even if your credit score is good", ">Or you can just not put all your expenses on credit.\n\n>Or you could learn how the system works and put expenses on there up to 30% of your limit.\n\nPrecisely my original point, that my original tale was about.", "No, it is not miss leading and the marketing is still done today. Hell the video even shows documents from wellfargo internally talking about how to target low income people who can be high turn over.\n\nIt is a very well document practice on how different groups get very different targeted advertisment for credit cards and loans.\n\nhttps://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-credit-card-marketing-20151019-story.html", "I'm saying what you could do. I wouldn't advise trying to spend over 5x your limit each month. I pay off my balances about 5 days before the statements come out for some wiggle room and have never had usage over 2% in the last 4 years. I went from having no credit history and a 600 credit score to over 810 in just 3 years by getting a new credit card every 6 months and using credit for everything. \n\nHowever, with credit card rewards, spending 4700 on debit and 300 credit means you'll miss out on $50-250 in cash back a month. \n\nAlso, if you're spending $5000 a month, you absolutely should have more than a $1000 credit limit. Get some more cards!", ">Anyone who explains how the system works in this thread is attacked. You yourself are attacking me as \"justifying the system.\"\n\nI have not read every comment in this thread, but I have not seen any that just explains how the system works and gets attacked.\n\nPeople get attacked because they follow it up with a why - and both don't understand how a lot of the why is predatory (and more often enforce poverty than identify risk of loaning), but also for some reason think that people should even remotely care about the feelings of banks. They are going to be perfectly fine either way and are not owed the world to be structured so they can continuously micromanage people more and more.", "lol this is just rich\n\n\nso all the homeless people out there are people who make 60k/year, but don't have good enough credit to rent an apartment?\n\n\npeak reddit", "It has everything to do with FCIO scores because they were designed for this exact purpose. That is why paying off your credit card doesn't increase your score but paying off interest does. It is about how they creat profit more then risk, though risk has a part it in.\n\nAgain the video is explain that the system is broken. It never said the system did serve a purpose. They are asking for it to be improved and work for everyone and not just be a large profit driver for banks.", "> The video is factually incorrect on many points. If a good FICO score = people that the industry could easily milk\n\nThe video doesn't say that. The video (and many others in this thread in the industry) specifically talks about lenders targeting people in the 600 range.\n\n\"The riskier the borrowers are, the more interest they could be charged.\"\n\nNo where in that video does it say that someone with an 850 credit score is profitable.", "I use CreditKarma. I still have high credit card usage but when I was making my payments everything was honky dory. So I guess to be fair to credit I now have high usage+missed payments.", "The credit score is a model and the quality of the score depends on how much information it has. Your issue is that your credit score is based on \"thin credit\". \n\nYour lender has to decide if you can handle (more) debt. In your case, you're ONLY making a mortgage payment. BUT practically everyone has to make a rent or mortgage payment. It's not evidence that you're good with personal finances beyond the bare minimum.\n\nThat said, it also sounds like you have a really basic underwriter. One concept in underwriting is to use the 5 C's of credit. They should be able to make exceptions if they have access to more information about you (your income, liquid assets, revised home value after home improvements).", "That doesn’t make the system arbitrary lol. That’s where you are incorrect. Or at least nothing you have said has proven it arbitrary, just that you don’t understand it.", "The hard reality is that the vast majority of people will end up behind on their balance. Maybe that's due to their own financial illiteracy, sure. Maybe it's due to factors outside of their control like medical debt, or maybe they feel forced into paying more rent than they're comfortable with because they want to send their kids to a better school district, or they feel social pressure to keep up with everyone else in their community who is also getting by with debt spending.\n\nEither way, U.S. consumer debt is $15.24 trillion, which is about $72,000 per U.S. adult. Median individual income is only $35,800. We're up to our eyeballs in debt. It's easy to call out people for their personal failures, but clearly what we're doing right now is not working and is not sustainable on a national scale.\n\nThe FICO score is a tool invented by lending companies to normalize debt spending and hook people into a cycle of debt they can't get out of. Whether you personally have good credit or not, we can't expect the country to remain strong if we let this behavior continue unchecked.", "Paying off your credit card increases your credit score by reducing credit utilization", "That's the point. Just make it become a slur and no one will want to be associated with it. Even those who would benefit from it.", "Expect no,\n\nLet's take risk out of it. What this system does is look at what someone can afford. People like you and me get perks, bonus miles, cash back etc. Lower income people or people with a middle score get better introductory rates.\n\nThis is to encourage people to get the 2% interest for 6 months because the card companies know it is highly likely it won't be paid off and they can jump the interest rate to 30%. They know that it will be paid off there is no risk, but was they get them to spend that 10k the 10k will alwasy be there getting interest the people will never pay it down because there will alwasy be an emerging or something else.\n\nThe cards are marked as a way to save money, her is a low interest rate, your furnace just blew out buy it at 6% on your credit card over the 16% from the finance company. O you didn't pay it off fast enough to bad we are jacking up your rate.\n\nIt is extremely dishonest. And while this practice isn't about the score itself the score was built are metrics to feed into it. We need to change how the score is created and what it is actually used for so bad practice like this go away.", "I'm going to show this video when I go for a home loan. Don't let me down, Reddit.", "> instead of \"don't work the way you think\" \n\nThey work exactly like I though.\n\nThe problem is that they frame it like credit scores are designed to find people that are profitable while in reality they are simply a tool to assess credit-worthiness.", "Stupid video. Boo hoo, credit scores are bad because it identifies people who are likely to miss a payment or default. You need to look at what lending is like in places that aren't able to track debtors. Debtors jails, seizing passports, corporate loans being attached to individuals, deportation and worse. I know people who have had the misfortune of missing a loan payment in these countries, and it is a horror story of how the banks and police hunt you down, and toss you in a cell until your family liquidates assets to pay up. That's how banks have to manage risk when they aren't able to easily ascertain someone's credit worthiness.", "Sure. So don't see how doing that adds some serious mental overhead to what should be a pretty basic system? Or how to the average, working class person, on top of literally everything else that weighs on our minds, needs to remember which freaking piece of plastic they should be using for this purchase, and which credit statement date it's due, not payment due date, on top of all other general life obligations we have?\n\nIt's already a scam that financially secure people need to even use a credit card to begin with, when simply looking to our income vs spending habits that our bank records provide should suffice. But the system could be mitigated even easier if the credit bureau looked to our lenders records and reviewed if we paid them on time, in full, minimum payment, in between those or under, instead of checking when they* decide to check and dock us or reward us if that number is within a percentage range that they decide is acceptable.", "Sudden increase in credit use IS a risk sign. You're being classified with people who've run into cashflow trouble (e.g. lost a job).\n\nIf you paid if off entirely before it was due I bet that in the subsequent month or two your score recovered.", "Not alwasy.\n\nIf you buy $500 on credit and pay it off each month it likely will do nothing to your score, but if you carry a balance just a little bit each month it will improve your score far more. \n\nThis has been tested and proven. The exact way a credit score is determined (depending on which company they pull from) is kept as a trade secret.", "Again, you don't have to pay a single penny of interest to have a good credit score. Credit score doesn't measure profitability, it measures risk of default. Banks use the calculation to make sure they are profitable because people that don't pay back debts are riskier, but that's not what the score measues", ">So don't see how doing that adds some serious mental overhead to what should be a pretty basic system? \n\nMoving your \"pay my bills\" day up a little bit and doing it on a monthly schedule isn't something I'd consider serious mental overhead. If it is something that is difficult to keep track of, then that would be an indicator that someone is not great at keeping a schedule to pay bills on time. Meaning, lowering credit score for that reason somewhat makes sense. \n\nI mean, if a credit score is trying to assess how reliable someone is at making payments, having a hurdle that is related to making timely payments makes tons of sense.", "My wife and I had always thought credit scores were important and it's when we bought a house we realized how laughably unimportant they are. We need a great credit score to get a great mortgage interest rate.\n\nAnd for the first five years we made every single mortgage payment... we even asked to increase our payments. And our credit score went down.\n\nSo the first time we did a mortgage renewal our mortgage interest rate went down. Like how does that make any sense? Our credit score went down, our interest rate went down. Should be the opposite.", "sure you did", "Holy fuck you have no idea what you are talking about. Your score will go down if you leave a balance, it only goes back up because you lowered your utilization again.\n\n\n>This has been tested and proven.\n\nLink me a peer reviewed study", "> They're going to determine that y% is appropriate for you, whether your credit score is 600 or 830.\n\nNot true at all. My 830 got me 0.9% on a car loan. I'm not arguing credit scores are good but they are very profitable if you have a high one.", "No, that doesn't make the system arbitrary. It being arbitrary was a congruent point I was making. The arbitrary part comes in the fact that you can be a completely financially secure person, without a credit card, and you don't get the points. Even though your bank records indicate income vs spending. And it's even more arbitrary when you can be docked points for using a credit card within the confines of the contract that you and your lender agreed to, just because it is in a way that the credit bureau doesn't like. Like you can owe the lender nothing, and get docked points just like what happened to me. Considering all of that arbitrary doesn't mean I don't understand it.", "I had mine dropping after someone tried to apply for online loans using an old expired id of mine as proof of identity. I submitted a police report but three months later those failed attempts still fucking show on my report. My wife had her bag stolen a few years ago with our ids. This system is broken on the least.", "> Credit could have been a fine concept, if it didn't get ruined by greed like everything else.\n\nCredit is pure greed. It's literally I have more than you so I deserve some of yours.", "FICO scores were designed to represent how well an individual manages regular payments. No more. No less.", "It literally isn't about being reliable at making payments. That's the point. You can be reliable at making payments, and taking hits to your score. I've had 0 late payments, and paid literally every dollar I spend on my credit card since I've had it before my balance was due, and still took a 47 point hit. My hit was because I wasn't reliable in the way they deemed reliable, which is the definition of arbitrary.\n\nEdit: And no,\n\n>Moving your \"pay my bills\" day up a little bit and doing it on a monthly schedule isn't something I'd consider serious mental overhead\n\nThat alone isn't serious mental overhead. It's how that fits into all the other facets of our lives of random shit we need to remember.", "> how the fuck is that ok? \n\nOur society worships the hoarding of wealth.\n\n>Why does having a better credit score lower the value of the product? thats bs.\n\nA repossession hurts profits. This is simply a car dealer calculating risk into price. When trying to understand capitalism never assume what is right or moral is part of the calculations. It's solely about taking what others have and depriving them of as much as possible.", "Dude - how many people need to tell you before you get it. I don’t know what you are looking at but it’s not a credit report. We get ours every year and it’s detailed and easy to follow. Ask a friend you trust who has some financial background and they will be able to set you straight. Otherwise, go to a government assisted financial advisor who helps with those under financial strain - they will hold your hand to ensure you get the right report, spell out what it is saying, and help you get a plan on place to fix you with your financial situation. It’s a great service for those who are not financially literate.", "Think of it from a lenders perspective. Who would you rather loan money to? The person who investigates how credit systems work, understands how to use them to their advantage, and sticks to a schedule to maintain a higher score, or the person who has no knowledge of how credit systems works and won't put in the effort to try to understand them?", ">And yet all these ancillary things revolve around credit scores; rental availability, job offers, insurance rates, etc. This is totally crazy.\n\nA credit score is a shortcut to figuring out who is likely to pay on time and where more caution is needed. A lot of the ancillary things also benefit from this check:\n\n- Rent: Landlord wants proof that renter will pay. This is similar to asking for pay stubs.\n- Job offers: Some jobs give employees access to cash/valuable equipment. This is part of a risk assessment for theft.\n- Insurance: Indebted people are more likely to commit insurance fraud.\n\nThat said, I agree low credit scores should not shut people out from society. Even in lending, low scores are a prompt for underwriters to investigate and add conditions/ask for collateral. However the risk/hassle of dealing with someone with a low credit score is usually not worth it (financially and emotionally).", "No, what shows you don’t understand it is the other statements you made about the reasons your score dropped.\n\nThe system isn’t about your overall financial stability, it’s about your credit worthiness. If you have no credit why would you expect to have a good credit score? Your ability to ferret away money has nothing to do with your trustworthiness in paying anything back.\n\nAs evidenced above, you have no idea how this system works. You literally don’t even understand the intent of the system.\n\nYou and a lender agree to terms when you get your loan or card. If you do not live by those terms then it gets reported and you get docked. If you are docked incorrectly, you can have that data corrected and it’s not very difficult.\n\nYou do not understand the system, which is what makes you think it’s arbitrary.", "The Chinese social credit system is far more invasive. The government can ding your credit. Imagine Biden dropping your credit score by 300 points because you didn't get vaccinated or Trump doing the same because you're Muslim.", "Think of what from a lenders perspective? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make now.", "I would argue that anyone in this thread who says that they don't have credit cards because they don't use or need them is attacked. It seems that we've setup our society to require us to owe money to be tracked so that we can be deemed qualified to owe more money. Here's the problem with that process. Every functional adult owes money. \n\nI pay:\n\n- $100-$400/mo in Electricity\n- $20-$100/mo in water and gas\n- $50/mo to Sewer and Trash\n- $150/mo in internet and various streaming and online services\n- $2000/mo in rent\n- Medical bills - of which I have a lot\n- $400/mo in groceries\n- I bought and own my car outright with cash\n- I've made all major home and electronic purchases in cash\n Computers, TVs, Furniture - adding up to thousands of dollars\n\nEvery one of these purchases and payments show that I manage my money within my means. So when I go to a bank and ask for a loan, why do they complain that I literally have no credit score. I haven't missed a rent payment in almost 20 years and I've already shown I can pay $2000/mo in rent and still afford to live within my means. Why do I need to specifically have an account with a credit card to show that I'm worthy of a loan? But you know what, that's the game and it's clearly rigged. \n\nSo is it indoctrination to believe that you have to have a piece of plastic in your wallet (issued by the same institutions that provide you home loans) to prove that you're worthy to own a house? You tell me?\n\n[edit] corrected a formatting error", "> That is why paying off your credit card doesn't increase your score but paying off interest does.\n\nThis doesn't match my personal experience with my credit, but even if this were true, this would contradict your anecdote. If the car dealership wants to sell to people who get their cars repossessed after 8 months, then they're targeting people with lower credit scores. However, now you're saying creditors want to reward people who they profit from with a higher credit score. Which one is it?", "A credit score isn't a measure of how trustworthy or reliable you are, it's how profitable you are. My credit score was pegged until I paid off a car loan, then it dropped a few dozen points.\n\nAs humans we tend to assume the world is created for our benefit, like Miranda rights, we think those are to protect us when in reality their sole reason is to protect evidence against you from being dismissed.", "Think of who you would rather loan money to from a lender's perspective (in other words... the bank's perspective). The whole point of a credit score is to indicate to them how good you are with credit. \n\nIf you're constantly saying how difficult and mentally taxing it is to keep to these rules, and I'm saying \"no, it's pretty easy\"... which one of us do you think the bank is going to want to lend money to? The person who can't manage to do that or the person who can?", "It's \"just business.\" Maybe the government of 50 years ago might have been interested in doing the right thing, but not any more. Especially now that corporations are \"people\" for purposes of ~~buying~~ supporting politicians.", "Why do we need a credit score, when we have records indicating our income vs spending, already? Why do you think that because I do not agree with a system, that that means I don't understand it?\n\nEdit:\n\n> You and a lender agree to terms when you get your loan or card. If you do not live by those terms then it gets reported and you get docked.\n\nYou can also get docked while living by those terms.", "Your last sentence threw me - what do they see?", "Do you think most Americans intuitively understand how credit works?\n\nAlso idk why you think profit and credit-worthiness are separate metrics they are completely entwined, right? GI is just saying that they are putting profit first in determining their score and credit worthiness is taking a backseat to that.", "You’re right, the poors should simply pay back their debt so they can rent an apartment rather than live on the street :)", "It’s not your disagreement with the system that makes me think you don’t understand it. It’s the fact you keep making factually inaccurate statements over and over again that make me think that.\n\nIncome back spending has nothing to do with your trustworthiness when it comes to a loan. It will do nothing to stop someone with a good income from constantly defaulting on loans and not being punished for it.\n\nRegarding your edit: and you can 100% appeal that and have it overturned. I know, I have done it and it was relatively painless. It was 100% done online. That’s the point of the FCRA.\n\nAgain you prove that you don’t understand the system lol.", "I don't know why you're asking me to think of that, though. I understand the stated reason for having a credit score. My issue is with it's implementation of it. I also don't think we need a credit score, considering we have banking records indicating our financial stability already.", "When you apply for a different type of debt the credit scores will be a different score. Your credit score pulled for a car loan would be different than what it would be for a mortgage.", "And that's exactly it. I have had good credit my whole life and despite everyone telling me growing up it would open doors, it didn't. It's why the title of this thread is \"Why credit scores are a scam.\"", "I still remember trying to apply for a new credit card. I always paid my old one off in time so my credit score was fine so I thought it would be easy. One month later I hadn't heard back from them so I called them. They basically told me that I had been rejected since they looked at a bank account I had which had seen no usage in years (it was a collage account at a local branch and untouched after I had graduated) and from this they had denied me (without telling me of course). After convincing them to give me a second chance I joked with the representative that I had thought they would be handing them out to me thanks to my good credit score. Her exact response to me? \"Oh we don't even look at your credit score.\" That surprised me since everyone had always talked about how important your credit score was for these things.", "I didn't have any credit when I graduated college as I didn't have student loans, didn't have credit cards, and bought a used car outright. While I had a 6 year bank account that had never been over drawn, paid for books etc outright, and medical bills outright I didn't actually appear in the credit system. I was essentially a ghost in the system as I had never had debt, but also never had late or bad payment history. So my first apartment I had to cosign with my Mom. Had I not had my Mom and Dad to help, or if they had bad credit, I would've been screwed. In a way it sucks that you have to have debt to gain credit, but there needs to be something said for people like myself that had a bachelor's with out debt.", "If good income doesn't stop you from defaulting on loans, I don't understand why you think good a good credit score would.", "Credit cards are the easiest way. Went from no history to an 800 credit score in about 3 years. \n\nI got a secured credit card at 18. After a year, I got a regular credit card. After another year i got another card. Had a 800 score by this point. Never paid a cent in interest.", "That's right, my mistake.", "Someone or something just used the made-up word inerrancies.", "but they aren't a scam you are just ignorant", "Lol dude, ok whatever you gotta tell yourself.", "The more you use credit, the more they give you. I started with a 500 dollar limit and now I have like 100k in available credit and I don't even earn that much a year. My credit utilization is never above 5%", ">Regarding your edit: and you can 100% appeal that and have it overturned. \n\nWell cool, in your case, you could. Not mine. I tried. I don't know what you think I don't understand, when you haven't even told me any new information to me. Our only disagreement is whether or not these rules are arbitrary.", "Yea, but you need to get there first.", "What i hate is the fact that just recently paying off my car loan dropped my credit score from 785 down to 692. what the hell is that about.", "Took me about 3 years to go from no history to about 800 credit score. I started requesting increases on my cards every 6 months and it took about 2 years to go from 30k to 100k in credit. Amex was especially generous with their increases. Discover was a waste. Mind you, I don't make anywhere near 100k", "Big difference between the government having such a system vs private banks having a system people find arbitrary.\n\nMost people get the loan, it's just not the absolute bottom interest rate they wanted to pay.", "I think what he’s arguing, and others in the thread, is that FICO scores in general are not a scam, but rather a risk assessment. Lenders can use this information for shady tactics. \n\nSo, to put another way, if FICO goes away tomorrow, lenders will still want to assess risk value. Lenders will then try to squeeze out profit based on this new assessment too.", "But I bet you're not spending more than 30% of your limit.", "I am in no way saying to not open a cc… my point is that you need to show a strong credit history, and that goes much further than simply a high score. And if this about having usable credit than one line is going to next to nothing for you. You can have a high a credit score as possible but without an actual history in a variety of lines you won’t be getting any reasonable rate if anything at all.\n\nHave you ever gone through the mortgage process?? It’s outside reality to think anybody could think having one open credit card line would be sufficient for a home loan…", "It's more of a mindset check. At the beginning, I was obsessed with raising the score like it was a game. The more I've grown, the less energy I've put to caring to check the status every week, because the game is inherently rigged against good borrowers. Pay your bills on time (where possible) and you're good. A lot of places will include credit score as only a portion of the financial picture, so it's not the end of the world (and why I'm not worried it dropped 100 points over the weekend).", "A lot of people who call themselves socialists just think healthcare should be free. Rightly, in my opinion. But that isn't socialism. \n\nThe problem is that it is far too broad. To some it means nationalising some industries, or starting more worker co-ops. To others it means enslaving all the Uyghurs and killing anyone who wears glasses.\n\nIt isn't really a useful term and we should probably stop using it at this point.", "Yep, before FICO lending was very inclusive as long as you had a long history with a small, local bank, probably knew the banker personally, and were not a minority.", "That's a risky game to play, though. You could do that, sure. But better hope the payment goes through before the statement comes in. Or just use your debit card for anything >30%", "By all means that’s great and should absolutely be the base all most all people should strive for! But even so, I’ve been denied time and time again despite having many credit cards and perfect payment history. Until you have a sizable history with diverse lines of credit, a cc balance isn’t going to mean nearly as much as you think for getting good rates on large loans.", "What is the solution here?\n\nBecause while I agree that some of these metrics seem arbitrary, I get the impression there's a lot of people that just want everyone to have a perfect credit score and lenders are mandated to give a loan to everyone at the same rate. Everyone thinks their black marks shouldn't count and have extenuating circumstances.\n\nPersonally, I stopped playing the game. Froze and locked my credit and pay cash. Screw the banks.", "Oh, interesting! Could you have terrible credit for e.g. a car while having good credit for e.g. a house?", "It doesn’t though? I literally just finished paying off a car loan this past summer and as long as I was paying my monthly charge on time each month it only got better; I think the only ding was when the loan started which I imagine is to stop people from just taking out like 10 at once", "> Well cool, in your case, you could. Not mine. I tried\n\nThen in that case, you should sue. And to be 100% honest, I don't believe you. You don't understand even one of the most basic parts of the system (utilization), so I don't believe you actually took proper action to correct your situation, if one even existed. If you're right and are being incorrectly penalized, suing should be easy. You have a copy of the terms of your agreement, you have bank accounts indicating payments and when they were made. You have legal recourse - if it's even true.\n\n> Our only disagreement is whether or not these rules are arbitrary.\n\nNo, our disagreement is that you aren't educated enough on the rules or the system to call them arbitrary. You didn't know how utilization worked and your very first post was you calling the rules arbitrary because of that. You didn't understand that the point of the system was to judge credit worthiness, not financial security or stability. You don't understand why the system just can't work on income and expenses, despite us already having a system that does just that - with an exceptionally high default rate (Payday loans) - a strong indicator that it isn't as good at judging creditworthiness. \n\nYou don't know what I think you don't understand? Dude, you don't understand any of it. Like it's apparent you haven't even done the barest research on how your FICO score is calculated.", "In the beginning I was maxing out my 500 limit card every month, but always paid it off. Then I took out a new card for maybe 3k. Was definitely over 30% on that card. Took out another card for around 5k limit and was around 20%. \n\nThe cards offered me increases randomly and I made it to 30k total credit. Then I started requesting increases and got to around 100k. It would be quite problematic if I was using 30% of my limits these days.", "I can't speak for mortgages, but having only credit cards, I got a 4% rate on my first car loan of about 20k. That was a few years ago and my mortgage rates now are very low but I've only ever had credit cards and 2 cars both 20k.", "Use the system to your advantage. Had you used a credit card through college for all those purchases you could already have $1,000+ in perks or airline miles. By using cash or debit cards you gain nothing & carry a risk of losing that by losing your wallet, having your debit card skimmed, etc.\n\nAll you had to do was pay off you balance which you did during college anyway. \n\nCredit cards are not evil and can work in your favor if you’re smart about it.", "I can't sue, because it's like enshrined in law not to use more than 30% of your credit. The irony here is that the only factually incorrect thing was actually said by you, for saying I have a case fore suing the government over my credit getting docked.", "These dates don’t randomly appear, it’s the same close date each month.", "You're completely mixing up appealing a negative mark against your credit (which will fuck up your credit for 5+ years) versus appealing your credit usage (which resets in 30 days and makes no sense to appeal or sue when you can completely erase it next credit billing statement). \n\nThat's a prime example of how you don't really understand how the credit system works.", "Yea and that's simple enough until one day you have a stressful or busy day and forget to pay it off, or can't because you're tied up. I'm not saying your game can't be done, just that it's risky.", "The mods should really remove all PragerU and Gravel Institute videos as this violates rule 1 (r/PoliticalVideo exists for a reason). People on reddit are blinded by their political bias; while they can clearly see PragerU is full of shit they eat up Gravel Institute propaganda as if it were any better.", "If you're forgetting to pay things off, then it absolutely is a risk to lend you money.", "Until you lose your job because a pandemic comes around and then it gets repossessed. Paid off cars don't get repossessed", "Why do you think I'm mixing those up?", "I didn't say this is for everyone. In the case of this guy, all he has is a mortgage so he can probably save up pretty quickly", "Because when the other person is talking about appealing a credit ding and suing if it doesn't come off, you immediately bring up that you can't sue in that instance because it was credit utilization. \n\nThe other person isn't talking about credit utilization when they said appeal/sue. They're talking about actual negative marks on your credit for missing payments. You saying them being factually incorrect is a prime example of how you don't understand the system.", "The day your balance is checked isn't the same day it's due. Honestly, that's the main issue I have with this. If they checked based on balance due date, that'd be a lot simpler.", "They said as long as you abide by the terms you agreed to with your lender, you wouldn't be docked. I was highlighting that isn't true. I didn't miss any payment, and yet my score got knocked down.", "But that's not why they're checking that specific thing. Paying on time is a completely different credit factor than credit utilization and they absolutely do incorporate on time payments into credit score.", "You’re doing a whole lot of arguing against my initial statement despite many people providing you helpful advice. Heck, if your overall credit limit is low, pay off your entire balance every few days if you want. That solves your problem too. \n\nThat doesn’t change my point that putting everything on CC is safer and actually gives you perks, which cash or your bank account won’t.", "I never said they didn't. Again, I understand all this. I just consider it arbitrary and bullshit. You're not telling me anything new here.", "Yeah, I've been there. Had to claw back up from defaults and near-foreclosure a decade ago. \n\nI think your score will come up reasonably well when you're in a position for it to do so. At the moment I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that you don't need more credit lines. But I do hope you're not paying a high interest rate. \n\nIf you are, go to r/personalfinance and see what they suggest about balance transfers at 0% APR. That would be worth trying, would help your utilization, and most importantly would get you paid down quicker. Still possible at 650, but a lower limit than you'd have gotten at 750.", "Amen. What you said is what people need to see. Not the hopelessness OP is shilling.", "People are providing general advice that is helpful for those that don't already understand that advice. It's a risky game to go above 30%, as I saw and tried to share with my tale. If you want to play that game, sure. But you'll see a hit if they happen to check on a day your payment didn't go through yet. It's safest to stay under 30%", "> I can't sue, because it's like enshrined in law not to use more than 30% of your credit. \n\nYou can't sue because your score wasn't docked for inaccuracies. I see now what you're saying and I misunderstood your statement about being docked while living within those terms, I was speaking to lawsuits for credit reporting inaccuracies, which is what I thought you were referring to (i.e.: you made a payment on time that got reported as late). \n\nThis has zero affect on the rest of my point regarding any of this being an arbitrary system. The rules are there and easy to find and understand. You, quite obviously, do not understand them and haven't taken the time to bother, hence calling the system arbitrary. Things like this are exactly why utilization has no memory.\n\nIf you don't like the system, don't participate. If you want to hide your creditworthiness from lenders, that's your option and you're free to do so. They're also free not to lend you anything as you aren't willing to demonstrate to them that you're credit worthy.\n\nOver and over in this thread I've pointed out where you misunderstand things - the rules themselves and the intent of the system. You choose over and over again to ignore each of those in turn and selectively respond. So on a note calling myself out for the one time I misconstrued what you said, I'll bow out. \n\nEnjoy your evening.", "Surprisingly good for the price - well played!", "You mean me giving money to Experian to boost my score is a scam? shocked pikachu face", ">You can't sue because your score wasn't docked for inaccuracies. I see now what you're saying and I misunderstood your statement about being docked while living within those terms\n\n...\n\n>This has zero affect on the rest of my point regarding any of this being an arbitrary system. The rules are there and easy to find and understand. \n\nMaybe we have a different understanding of the word arbitrary. I mean random, as in like, rules based on factors some random people deem trustworthy. The fact that you can be docked on your score when you haven't even breached the terms of your lending agreement, to me, is arbitrary. Arbitrariness has nothing to do with an ability to understand.", "As I said earlier, I misconstrued what you said. I thought your remark was about errors within the terms of those agreements.\n\nThough if your entire argument at this point hinges on me misunderstanding a single point of yours 15 posts down a thread, you got a weak argument.\n\nYou wouldn't need to sue to overturn a utilization dock - its literally calculated raw every month. It's 100% transient and is a easy calculation. It has no memory. That's why I and others misunderstood what you were talking about.\n\nI'm not sure how else to explain this, utilization as a portion of your score cannot be docked because is it recalculated every month and you are given a value. It isn't \"You had 100 points this month, but spent more, so BOOM! -30\".", "So what if that happens? Your score might take a dip until the next month when your score reflects that you paid off the card. Unless you're looking to take out a loan right then, it means nothing.", "Well, I'm definitely getting lost in this thread bouncing, but I made the above reply before I had a chance to see you mention your misunderstanding. But no, my argument doesn't hinge on one misunderstanding of a single point of mine 15 posts down a thread.", "The issue is that you think the credit score is for you, it isn't. It's for banks. They use it to identify how profitable you will be. Your score is low because they never make money off you, which is good for you. I agree it's dumb and doesn't make sense.", "Unless you paid it off, then used more credit. And it doesn't mean nothing. Credit builds slowly, but drops extremely quickly. It's not meaningless.", ">in what world does losing $30k up front instead of reinvesting it make you more financially secure down the line? \n\nThe problem is typically when some people are spending 30k on a vehicle in the first place. Buying a current year brand new vehicle makes no sense when you could buy a vehicle a few years old and save a ton of money. Heck, I'd guess that used cars will save you money as well if your are careful.\n\nThat 30k, whether you loan it or pay in cash, is being thrown into a dumpster at the end of the car's life.", "This has been explained to you over and over again. Why are you continuing to double down? \n\nIf your balance is paid off, in full, before your bill cycles, you are set. Period. End of story. \n\nGo make a payment every day for the previous day’s spending if you want, or set up an auto-draft on your card to pay the balance in full before the statement cycle date each month so you don’t even need to remember. \n\nWe are all giving you suggestions. Why are you trying to find a problem to every solution?", "Thanks! I have had some issues with the neighbours but the council and police have been very supportive so that has helped me 'stake my claim' here, so to speak. I feel like this area is a tad rough but most people are OK. I'm hoping to upgrade to an end-terrace or semi-detached next, fingers crossed. I should make a good profit compared to what I've paid, since I have done so much work while I've been living here.", "Stop, just stop with this 30% talk. Pay off your balance, in full, before your bill cycles and it’s all irrelevant. End of story.", "You are clearly overvaluing the credit score. And people are trying to tell you that you are over-valuing the credit score, and you're just arguing with them.", "Re: Your edit. I don't know what your end game was. Was it to try and get my to like credit systems? We weren't able to have a constructive dialog because you insisted my disagreement with a system means I don't understand it. This is a classic argumentative technique. The whole \"You don't like it? You just don't understand it.\" and now you're boiling this whole thing down to being over one misunderstanding.", "Please, call up TransUnion about it and tell them they are wrong, then.", "Quite possible. But seeing as I barely got my foot in the door showing them my good credit, it seemed like they were overvaluing a smaller portion of the same credit score without first looking into my financials. Which turned out to be a nightmare on it's own.", "> because \"credit reporting\" has zero incentive to be accurate\n\nThis is not completely true. However, yes, the sentiment of the video is accurate for the most part. Interest is how a financial institution makes money. Don’t forget that said financial institution also has to pay for the money that they lend out, i.e. CDs, deposits, savings, loans from the fed and/or other financial institutions, etc…because all accrue interest. \n\nNevertheless, what I was going to say about the quote is that credit reporting agencies have plenty incentive to be accurate. We (any financial institution) pay reporting agencies for every single time someones credit os pulled. Compile the thousands we pull every month, times X amount per pull, and it adds up. Now, each reporting agency (Equifax,Trans Union, and Experian) are competitors. They get their data from lenders, and factor in a plethora of other variables to acquire a score. Each bureau has their own scoring algorithm. Scores among the 3 are typically never the same, but they should be somewhat similar to one another because they are using the same information to base it off of. As I said earlier, a score is subjective. What we as lenders look at is one’s credit history. I want properly reported bureaus, and i will pay for them. That’s their incentive to be accurate. My decision to loan an applicant money is based on that. It’s not a broken system.", "You're assuming that 25k will be there when you need it. Either your leaving it in a checking account and making nothing on it which in that case you might as well just pay off the car, or your investing which in that case when the pandemic comes around you have to withdraw it to pay your bills and you lose a lot on that because the market has tanked. A car won't pay your rent but it's a lot harder to pay rent when you are also paying for a car. All this ignores the 100 other ways people could lose that 25k while they had a car payment", ">or set up an auto-draft on your card to pay the balance in full before the statement cycle date each month so you don’t even need to remember.\n\nI actually asked my bank about this and they said no. I would like to check back on that. But I don't see why you think I don't understand that. Both my lender and TransUnion, and my own research after yelling at TransUnion, suggested being under 30%. But I guess I should trust 3 random redditors who'd rather tell me I don't understand it, just because I consider it all arbitrary.", "\"That can't be true. The bank commercial clearly states that they are my friends and care about my family's financial situation and our future. You can't show something on TV if it isnt true, dumb dumb!!!\" /s", "> We weren't able to have a constructive dialog because you insisted my disagreement with a system means I don't understand it. \n\nYou keep saying this. I keep telling you it's not your disagreement, it's the multiple times you made inaccurate statements throughout this thread. You've been corrected by multiple people, not just me. \n\nI didn't just say \"You don't undertstand it bro\", I told you when each of your assumptions were incorrect and why. You choose over and over again not to respond to them except this one, leading to it looking like you've got one pathetic argument. Well it looks like that because you do. \n\nYou literally didn't even know that paying your bill by the bill due date has no bearing on your utilization. Not knowing that - one of the most basic rules of the crediting system, indicates you don't know the system well enough to bitch about it or call it arbitrary with any weight.\n\nYou didn't know that the system was about reporting credit worthiness, not financial health or stability. \n\nAnd those two are just the ones that stand out without me bothering to go back and actually look.\n\nI'm not just telling you you don't understand. You're telling everyone you don't understand and we're just pointing out where you're doing it.", "Are you openly choosing to ignore the facts presented before you? That 30% is only calculated on the cycle date. Be below 30% of your total balance before your statement cycles each month.", "I mean, that's a shitty situation, but I don't see why that means we shouldn't still demand better systems in the US?", ">You literally didn't even know that paying your bill by the bill due date has no bearing on your utilization.\n\nWhy would you think I didn't know that, when my complaint was literally that it has no bearing, and should? That fact alone should tell you I understand it, and I'm just complaining about it.\n\n>You didn't know that the system was about reporting credit worthiness, not financial health or stability.\n\nWhy would you think I didn't know that, when my complaint was literally that credit worthiness isn't tied to financial health/stability? That fact alone should tell you I understand it, and I'm just complaining about it.", "The score for utilization doesn't build slowly. It's based on how much credit you have access to vs. how much you're currently utilizing. Pay the balance down and your score will jump up immediately with the next reporting. It's really not a big deal in the slightest unless you're applying for a loan in the next couple of weeks.\n\nAnd you can avoid the issue altogether if you just pay off a big purchase right after you make it.", "If i understand the question correctly, unless you owe on an investment/asset, they aren’t being reported to a credit bureau. The only income i know about, is what you tell me you make. If you’d like to disclose that you make $X off a rental properties, pension, stocks, etc. then I’ll take that into consideration. If the collateral you are wanting to purchase is substantial enough, and your debt ratios are tight, i might want to see proof of the stated income. If you aren’t paying taxes on them, then you basically can’t prove that you are making that money (if you’re self employed, we need W2s). So you better just leave that income out of the equation. Factor in what you do report, and go from there. I hope that helps.", "I understand that. If you're the person I originally replied to, then yea I misunderstood what you meant by \"pay for everything you possibly can on a card.\" Because that statement needs the clarification of paying it off before it's due. My tale was about how despite me not having a late payment, I still was docked on my credit for it. I understand why, but I can still find the explanation arbitrary, which I do.", "It's taken me like a year to go from 650-730. I don't use it much (except the one month I originally mentioned), and I pay it off well in advance each month. Sometimes I pay it every few days.", "Why? They stated they don't have any debt other than a mortgage, so it's not unreasonable to think they could save up 20k for a car", "The left calls everyone right of them fascist. \n\nPeople can't just calmly disagree anymore.", "Bro, if any of that bullshit was actually true, that you did understand the rules and intent behind the credit reporting system, then you wouldn’t have opened by calling a drop in your score after a reported utilization increase “arbitrary” as utilization scoring is a clearly understood rule in application and intent. \n\nYou may think the reasoning is unsound, but that’s a far cry from arbitrary.\n\nSo I’m calling bullshit. No, you didn’t understand at the start and I doubt you do at this point either.", "High utilization for one month a year ago won't impact your score today. History of utilization isn't a factor in your credit score.", "apparently you have never tried to get a nonsense hit off your credit report\n\nwhile bankers are paying for the service, there is zero motivation for credit reports to be accurate and lots of motivation for credit scores to be artificially low [we can only get you prime + 3,sorry]", "This whole argument could have been a discussion if instead of trying to parrot the rules I claimed were arbitrary like I didn't understand them, you addressed why you think they aren't arbitrary.", "A 'better' system would end up costing everyone more interest because the default rate would go up.\n\nBanks want to loan you money, that's how they make money. They're not excluding people for the lulz, they're doing so because they believe they are poor risks.", "Sure. But the definition of high usage isn't based on the actual agreement you make with your lender. I consider that arbitrary.", "Wait... you yelled at an employee at TransUnion? Why?", "Hyperbole, bud.", "Of course it isn't based on that. Utilization is calculated across all your accounts from potentially tons of different lenders. I'm not sure what the significance of that is though.", "I don't understand why you would use hyperbole there as it clearly goes against your argument that you understand credit scores to say you were yelling at someone for something that they don't control.", "The example given in the video is the person who spends and pays of the max credit limit each month. He never misses a payment, so why should he have a bad score and higher interest rate? The answer is that if he were to be fired, or hurt, he still has to spend, with no ability to pay. It's easy to get laid off, and if you have savings, your bills will get paid. But people with a high debt to income ratio and no rainy day fund will have a problem. To offset that risk, banks charge that customer more so that when he inevitably misses a payment, they don't left holding the bag.", "Stop trying to pretend like you understand the system. You do not. As evidenced by what I just posted and you couldn’t manage to dispute.\n\nI explained earlier exactly why I didn’t think it was arbitrary and was in fact amazed that I had to. As I said earlier it’s one of the clearest things in the credit reporting system, by rule and intent. The fact that you think utilization scoring is arbitrary is the best indicator you don’t know what you are talking about. \n\nThis thing could have been a discussion instead of an argument if you had just admitted your ignorance instead of trying to be an anti-establishment teenager rebelling against a system you clearly don’t understand.", "I didn't understand the usage thing at the time? Like holy hell, I provided a tale of a time I made a mistake. The fact that it's been highlighted as a mistake should indicate to you that \n\n1. I once didn't understand\n\n2. I now understand.", "OK... what would your credit utilization be if you had a 1,000 credit limit, 500 spent on the card this month, and paid off the 500 two days before your statement comes out?", "I didn't convey well in my comment regarding my frustration in how the credit score is actually computed. Yes they do go by past payment history but there is no allowance for the individual's net worth, for example. In my case I have money in savings, I have real estate which appreciates. Instead it looks at my credit card balance as if I'm carrying a balance and paying interest which is incorrect, there is no accounting for my paying off that balance each month. To come up with a truly accurate credit score more factors than payment history should be part of that calculation, I feel.", "Oh I'm 35 now with a bad ass credit score. We just refinanced our house at 2.5 for 20 years. Dropped a decade and $55 a month off.", "A cell phone bill is not reflected on a credit score so idk why you spammed that in this thread.\n\nAlso, you would likely not have an 800 score and certainly not be able to take out a major loan (car/mortgage) with such a thin credit history as one beginner card, even with flawless payment history.", "My ignorance was highlighted in my original comment that self-indicated I understood what the ignorance was. I just complained about it, you just kept doubling down with \"you just don't understand.\" You haven't actually made any actual explanations of something I don't already know.", "It depends on if that payment went through. Usually it takes 3 days for a payment to process, so I'm inclined to answer with 50%. If it went through, then 0%. But you asking me that clearly indicates that you don't understand that my issue is with it not being related to whether or not you pay it off on time, or in advance.", ">simple things like paying off loans early, or consolidating debt into one place (reducing lines of credits) start to have detrimental effects to your score\n\nAs with your anecdote about your car loan, I'm in the same situation regarding considering paying off the last amount of my student loans. But the more I consider even the credit score drop, I realize the better off I will be just paying them off for peace of mind and not trying to just have a pissing contest for having a high score. Having gone from 500ish score to 740 now I can say it just doesn't matter, it only affects specific scenarios, its not a metric for how 'good' a life you can have or even limiting much, and you can always find a new car/house/job/etc. with bad credit, you just might have a higher interest rate or lower credit limit. \n\nIf you want real security start saving money, then you can pay for that car in cash or put a larger down payment on a house, and be less reliant on taking out a loan and perpetually owing a bank.", "Would you happen to know why my score can randomly drop 30 points one month, only to recover the next? Would that be caused by errors like you said in your post?", "From a lenders perspective one always paid his bills on time and the other I don’t know anything about. It’s that simple. Just because you’re a high earner doesn’t mean you’ll pay your bills on time.", "> Usually it takes 3 days for a payment to process, so I'm inclined to answer with 50%.\n\nWells Fargo, USAA, PNC, Barklays, Chase, Citibank, Synchrony, and Discover all show payments effective the date they're scheduled for, even if it takes a day or two to process (I know for these ones specifically because I have cards with them).", "But no one is so deaf as he who will not hear.", "You are correct, I have been fortunate enough to keep my credit in good standing. However, I see consumer statements on bureaus every day. They allow people to insert a reason as to why a derogatory trade line is the way it is. For example… If a husband and wife split, and she gets the car only to stop making the payments, it will negatively affect both parties score. However, the husband can “plead his case” with a consumer statement to each bureau. I’ll take them into consideration and make my decision based off what the remainder of his application/credit report looks like. Granted, the statement doesn’t make his score higher, but it helps me understand the situation better. The only way to keep a derog from showing on your file is to A. Pay your bills on time and B. Never co-sign with anyone.", "In countries that don't, you need to go through a Kafkaesque process at the bank and do reams of paperwork just to get approved for a basic loan. I'll take the credit score, thanks...", "Cool.", "Groovy.", "c] happen to share a first/last name with someone who is a poor risk", "I especially love the ones trying to downplay the Chinese social credit shit by conflating it with US credit scores. Absolutely wild levels of propaganda going on.", "Credit scores aren't a scam, they're an adequate measurement of lending risk, and FICO doesn't profit off of any lending, so the entire theory that it was designed to be predatory is horseshit. Some credit card companies certainly are predatory, but it's not because credit scores exist.", "This is not always true, and it's why I stopped donating to them. They do, in fact, make statements and claims without citation. Often enough that it's not a mistake.", "My one delinquent account shows up very clearly and plainly on my credit report, exactly the company, amount owed, and status of it.", "I love that you were getting downvoted. But this is reddit.", "Yeah lots people must be mad about theirs. I get it. My dad had a bunch of credit card debt growing up, despite being a doctor. So I learned what not to do.\n\nInstead of financing a new car I drive a 1990 and fix it myself. Many of my clothes are from thrifting. I cook most of my meals and lived with 5 roommates until I was 27 to save money until I got a place with my GF.", "There isn't a public ledger that credit companies skim loan data from. The lender or landowner you're renting from reports data back to them on their own to keep you accountable.", "Ahhh, now you are admitting ignorance.\n\nGood, I will revise my opinion of you from ignorant to something worse. As only someone pretty stupid would call rules and reasons they are ignorant of arbitrary.\n\nYou haven’t listed one rule that hasn’t had its intent and/or the rule itself explained to you in this thread. The only actual credit reporting score impact you have listed or talked about so far is utilization, which is one of the least arbitrary actions that has a scoring impact.", "That doesn't negate the fact that you do have a right to borrow money since you signed an agreement with a lender, or that my credit system would work by looking to see if you paid your lender on time, and how much of it you paid off on that due date.", "Just because you don't have debt doesn't mean that you live within your means. A person with a $5k debt is a person that can be trusted to pay off a $5k debt. There are plenty of people that, once they get a taste of debt, will turn into highly irresponsible spenders. Not that any of these arguments even matter, because they already have the data that people with a credit history aren't going to default on their loans as much as people that don't.", "Do you just not get how it's possible to disagree with something while understanding how it works as a concept? Like, do you think if I understand how credit works, I'd suddenly agree with the credit system? Because explaining why a rule is the way it is, doesn't address the issue I have with it. This whole argument now is basically:\n\nMe: I hate the way this system works, and it's arbitrary.\n\nYou: Dude these rules are because of XYZ\n\nMe: I understand XYZ, and it's one of the things I disagree with\n\nYou: I already told you it's because XYZ.\n\nDude, just give up. All you're doing is arguing at me, not even with me.", "ITT: “ Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporation-y... and they make money.”\n\nJust pay your damn bills and don’t overspend. \n\nAnd before anyone tries to claim that I’m rich and have always been rich, or that I’m “lucky”...no. I grew up poor, working class at best. First generation college student. I had student loans that I defaulted on and had my wages garnished as a result (that was fun explaining to my boss). I got so overwhelmed by my credit card debt that at one point I stopped checking my mail or answering my phone (I’m sure that hits close to the mark for some of you). I was even denied a cell phone once because my credit was so bad. You know what I did? I decided I had enough of making excuses. It took a long ass time but I worked hard, stopped over spending (please, quit trying to convince yourself that you have to have that new ________), and was disciplined. And yes, after about 7 or 8 years I paid off my student loans and got rid of all my consumer debt. It can be done. Just play by the rules.\n\nBring on the bitter downvotes.", "Go look at his comment history", "You've yet to address the argument. Why are you defending lying?", "Those with an already high to debt income are viewed as high risk. No need for a credit score, can just look at how much of a risk you are based on those factors.", "How is my comment a straw man? Do you even know what that means lol", "The fuck are you talking about. The guy is defending credit scores like his life depends on it, can you not read???", "His comment:\n\n>Ah yes, gaslighting people who call out the inerrancies of this video as \"strange\" just because no talking points in the video holds up under scrutiny.\n\n>My question is how much did the Gravel Institute think tank pay the person who made this to create such a low-quality, uneducated video?\n\n\nYou've yet to address why you think lying is okay.", "Credit score is one piece of the pie, DTI is another. Neither is the whole story. \n\nHigh DTI is risky & doesn’t leave much wiggle room, but doesn’t mean someone will be an untrustworthy borrower. \n\nMultiple missed or ignored payments, however…", "Yeah except that’s a straw man.\n\nI explicitly told you why this rule in particular makes sense. Pretty early on in the thread. You keep building this straw man that no one is supplying you reasoning when they are.\n\nHere it is again, in more detail. From a creditors point of view, someone needing to put all of their expenses on a credit card to the point it takes up a majority of their available credit is a bad thing. Why can’t this person afford to pay their bills out of pocket? Why is this person utilizing so much of their credit on living expenses? Someone that needs their credit cards to survive the month isn’t very credit-secure.\n\nThat’s how the system views and it and I’ve yet to hear from you a problem with that reasoning. You already get credit for paying it every month (that’s your payment history and your balance shows on your CR). On the other hand creditors realize this can be a temporary or by choice thing, which is why utilization has no memory. If you are credit worthy and don’t need to put all your expenses on a CC then just don’t do it next month and your score will reflect that.\n\nWhat you have yet to supply is zero reasoning, evidence or a thought process as to why you think utilization is a arbitrary rule. You just say it and then you’ve been straw manning ever since. You haven't addressed anything I've said above despite me saying it earlier in the thread. You just keep repeating that the rules are arbitrary and suggesting other half-baked ideas (credit worthiness based on income and expense alone!) - I am starting to think you don't even know what the term \"arbitrary\" means and that's the source of the problem. \n\nI have no problems with you disagreeing with the rules or the reasoning, however calling them arbitrary from a point of ignorance is stupid and you are rightfully getting called out for it.\n\nSay it with me now. Just because you disagree with a rule doesn't mean it's arbitrary. \n\nAs soon as reasoning was supplied if you would have simply said \"Ok, I understand it now and though it may not be arbitrary, I disagree because of X, Y, or Z\" we could have had a discussion. Except you choose to die on this arbitrary hill. \n\nLiterally the entire thing I have been arguing with you about is that the rules aren't arbitrary. I'm not necessarily saying they're fair or just or anything else. But arbitrary they are not.", "My cell bill is listed on my credit karma report. It’s the only thing listed on that report.\n\n2 comments is not spam. The other one was a reply, which was very similar but was obviously in the context of their top level comment.", "https://www.thebalance.com/does-my-cell-phone-payment-affect-my-credit-score-960537\n\nhttps://www.fool.com/the-ascent/credit-cards/articles/does-your-cell-phone-bill-impact-your-credit-score/\n\na cell phone payment is a utility bill not a loan or debt", "Mind telling me why it’s on my credit report then?", "credit karma is not a real credit report.\n\npull one of your actual credit reports (can be done for free).", "> I explicitly told you why this rule in particular makes sense.\n\nRight and I disagree with it making sense. But just because I disagree with it, doesn't mean I don't understand it. You going into a detailed explanation on the general point of credit again shows you're still not listening to me. \n\nThe arbitrary things I find about utilization are:\n\n-You can completely pay off your bill on time with your lender, but still take a hit to your credit. Even if it's temporary, you could do the same thing next month. \n\n-30% being the number that is considered high usage (why not 40? 20?70?), when my lender agreed on a higher number\n\n-Having multiple credit lines help, even though your spending habits may not be changing\n\n-Literally just needing a credit card, and paying that off instead of just paying with the damn money you actually have in the first place. Borrowing money just to show you can pay it off immediately, when you can just pay it off immediately, is fucking stupid. \n\nI understand why those all work that way, I just think it's all fucking stupid.", "I think we just talking past each other or something. You keep reflecting instead of actually responding to what I’ve said lol.", "I have no idea why credit karma includes it, but it doesn't matter because credit karma is not a real credit report. \n\nRegardless, it is not a credit score factor unless it was delinquent and went to collections.\n\nPull a real credit report and you will see.", "FICO profits off the people who lend, so they do, just indirectly.\n\nCredit scores as a formula categorically can't be a scam, so clearly they're talking about credit scores as a social construct. Which is a scam.", "> 30% being the number that is considered high usage (why not 40? 20?70?), when my lender agreed on a higher number\n\nWhat you talking about here? You don't agree to a \"high utilization\" number with your lender. The CRA's determine what's considered high utilization and it's on a sliding scale. The Credit companies use the CRAs, not run them. Your lender has no input on how utilization is scored by Fair Issac. If your lender doesn't care about utilization, then they don't need to pay attention to that metric. They don't only go by FICO Score, your whole credit report is taken into account.\n\n> I understand why those all work that way, I just think it's all fucking stupid.\n\nSo I got to this part after responding to the other bulleted items and erased what I wrote except for the one above, as that one is actually factually inaccurate, not just something you feel is wrong (and in some cases, justifiably so).\n\nThis is the crux of our specific disagreement. You don't seem to think the rules are arbitrary, you just disagree with them. That's all well and good and I don't much have a problem with that as I disagree with some of the rules also.\n\nMy whole purpose for jumping in this thread is because I disagree with your statement that the rules and reasoning are arbitrary. They are not, you yourself say you can understand why they are there and work that way. With that being the case, I'm more then happy to commiserate with you on how some of the rules need to be changed.\n\nFor instance: \n\nAverage age of account should work on a sliding scale, not an on off switch once you close out an account. That account age is still relevant. \n\nUtilization should give some small weight to the clearing of balances monthly.", "The rules are artificial and arbitrary. Why settle for such an oppressive set of undemocratically governed rules?", "No I don’t really care what it is. I’m just disappointed I don’t get my self together until I’m almost 50. Thanks for the information.", "What I mean by the line you quoted me is that my lender agrees to lend me up to $1000 a month, but the credit bureau docks me if I use more than 30%. Whatever sliding scale you're talking about, that's news to me but not what TransUnion specifically said to me on the phone. They said keep it to under 30% usage. And a few google hits suggest that's the case as well. I find the number 30% an arbitrary number to be considered high.\n\n>My whole purpose for jumping in this thread is because I disagree with your statement that the rules and reasoning are arbitrary. \n\nYou could have said that from the start, instead of just insisting I do not understand it. And I'm sure you know more than I do. It's a complex system, but demoting peoples gripes to \"misunderstandings\" is insanely condescending. And hearing your example of a rule that you disagree with, and you not finding it arbitrary, shows to me the issue here between us is having a different understanding of the word arbitrary. What age is considered a \"good\" amount of time?1 year? 2 years? 3? 5? 10? Don't answer that, because it was rhetorical. Whatever the answer is, is still a determination the credit bureau themselves came up with.", "Yes, less of a scam and more of an extortion racket.", "> You could have said that from the start\n\nI did say that from the start. Repeatedly. Each and every time I disagreed with you it was either on or stemmed on your insistence the rules were arbitrary. You're free to scroll back up and see it yourself. Literally look at each of my posts and you'll see where I did.\n\n> And hearing your example of a rule that you disagree with, and you not finding it arbitrary, shows to me the issue here between us is having a different understanding of the word arbitrary\n\nBecause arbitrary in this context means randomly applied or applied on a whim or without thought or meaning. You find a different version of arbitrary that applies here. And these rules are most decidedly none of that. \n\nCredit is just risk assessment and mitigation, just like insurance. After years of research and analytics (which obviously are still ongoing) they have arrived at the conclusions they have based on that data. They literally make their money by accurately predicting how likely people are to pay things back and selling that information to creditors. That's their whole business model. If they were constantly wrong in either being too generous (and increasing the amount of defaults) or scoring too strictly (leading to lenders leaving money on the table they could have otherwise made) then the Creditors would switch to other systems, methods or means. \n\nIt is anything but arbitrary. \n\n> It's a complex system, but demoting peoples gripes to \"misunderstandings\" is insanely condescending. \n\nIs it? Is it better or worse then jumping in and making people think credit reporting rules are random (meaning that it doesn't really matter what they do, since the scoring is basically random and you have no idea how you're going to be impacted) in their application or implementation? Because I feel that does a much greater disservice to everyone then being condescending to you - especially since that condescension appears to be caused by your own arbitrary application of the word \"arbitrary\". \n\nNot only that I was perfectly polite in my initial response and the followup.", "In doing so you probably also lowered the average age of your account, which hurts your score.", "wow great point dude", "which gravel institute videos are \"light on facts\"?", ">But to say it should be \"done away with\" will never happen.\n\nI mean I believe that we might not be able to, but just because we can't get rid of it doesn't mean it's good for society.\n\n>The only people that \"don't like it\" are the people that have created a history of non-repayment.\n\nI have great credit for my age and I hate the credit system lol. I'm not a big fan of the black mirroresque number that can prevent you from getting housing just because it's not high enough for the landlord lol.\n\nI'm not saying there is no place for a credit score, banks gonna aggregate data, but they credit score system I think should go.\n\n>FICO 8 which is used to assess credit risk for banks to give out CREDIT CARDS not AUTO LOANS doesn't take into account your \"expected future\" or income.\n\nMy credit score monitoring one of my credit cards gives me alerted me to the hit to my credit when I paid off my car loan. I literally got messages back to back from them saying \"Congrats you've paid off your car loan!\" \"You're credit score dropped 29 points!\" So IDK much about individual FICO numbers but it sounds to me like my credit card lender was watching my auto loan situation.", "Yea, it's based on them trying to make money lol. Not on determining if you're actually a good lending recipient. Why does the credit bureau need money? The whole point of credit is to prove to actual loaners when you need it, that you're reliable, so why would the credit bureau care about literally anything other than whether you pay your credit card on time (factoring age of account isn't arbitrary[since a longer history shows you're more reliable], but factoring number of accounts is[what's it matter if you pay your credit over 1 vs 6 accounts?])? Hell, it's arbitrary that you even need to pay on your credit card when you have the cash in your checking account to begin with. The whole system starts off as arbitrary. What do you think happened before the 90s?", "Wow, good catch. Thank you. Definitely astroturfing. I was taken in because honestly this is my experience but with a much higher credit limit and 3 cards. Also rent, utilities, and other bills. I've never had a loan or many cards at once.", "> It sounds like that car dealership was just scamming people who were bad at math, which has nothing to do with FICO scores.\n\nThe point is literally that they're using FICO scores to do it reliably. And they are certainly not alone. This is like saying \"It sounds like China is just rounding up political dissidents, which has nothing to do with facial recognition software\" on a video about the dangers of facial recognition software.", "> Yea, it's based on them trying to make money lol. Not on determining if you're actually a good lending recipient. \n\nYeah, that's how capitalism works. The CRA's make money by evaluating people on their ability and willingness to repay debt. The lenders make money lending to those people. CRA's literally make money by doing exactly what you said they don't do; determining if you're a good lending recipient. \n\n> Why does the credit bureau need money?\n\n? Because they're businesses with employees to pay? What does this even mean? Why does Google need money? Or Capital One? Or Mom's Flower business down the street?\n\n> The whole point of credit is to prove to actual loaners when you need it, that you're reliable\n\n...And to predict your future reliability and ability to pay more debt.\n\nAgain this is why I say you misunderstand the intent of the system. Because there is more to your ability and willingness to repay a debt then just having the means to do so. Do you have an example of a successful nationwide credit evaluation or lending system that's worked in practice with a lower default rate but an equivalent or higher approval rate then our existing system? \n\nFrom an interesting [Time](https://time.com/3961676/history-credit-scores/) article on the History of Credit Scores:\n\n> Though cloaked in algorithmic objectivity, the raison d’être of the modern credit score is the same as the scrawled reports in Tappan’s massive ledgers: to determine not just who can repay their debts, but who will choose to do so.\n \nNow.. \n\n> What do you think happened before the 90s?\n\nBefore the 90's? You mean before FICO scoring? The same thing that happened in most industries where there's a lack of standardization. Banks and lending institutions used their own criteria, which was even more opaque to the customer and prone to even more arbitrary decision making as lending decisions often rested in the hands of a single individual at a bank. Banks A, B and C all had different criteria for what they considered \"credit worthy\", leading to customers not knowing when they would be approved or at what rates, and then not being able to compare those rates directly against other banks due to lack of a standard scoring method. Not to mention each different lending institution would report data differently, making it harder to get an aggregate picture of where you were regardless.", "Do you really want the credit bureaus having your net worth information? These guys sell you data (not just the score but trade level details) - that's their whole business.\n\n> there is no accounting for my paying off that balance each month.\n\n False - the bureaus have your payment info. It's a BIG factor in the credit score", "> The point is literally that they're using FICO scores to do it reliably.\n\nIn that case you might as well call bank statements and sharing proof of income a scam because those are probably even more predictive on whether they can repossess a car.\n\nThere are a million things more dangerous than facial recognition software, so yes the problem is also how its used. China has had a long history of rounding up political dissidents without facial recognition. Meanwhile, America also has facial recognition software, yet we aren't using it to round up dissidents.", "You have lost 50 credit score for this post.", "I agree with you that it matters what people mean when they try to express themselves. I know for a fact much of my parents' (liberal) social circle think liberal means left. So that's how I take it when they say it. If that's how you meant it, then you were wrong to say liberal in the most boring way it is possible to be wrong. You picked that word in a context where it is important and useful to refer to concepts of political philosophy in the formal way. Once you explain what you mean by liberal, that should be sufficient to understand what you said. I think the context of this thread the wikipedia definition of liberal is more correct, but it's just really not a big deal.", "No they don't???\n\nIn my country credit score is used as an initial weed-out process but if you can prove you have a salary that can cover the loan, you can get a loan without prior credit history. That's just by submitting salary slips and verifying your company email or address. It's not that hard\n\nTransferring a loan to another bank was a different pain in the neck but that's a different matter entirely", "> There are a million things more dangerous than facial recognition software, so yes the problem is also how its used. \n\nRight just like this video is really about how people use credit scores. Not about the literal information and math equation used to come up with the numerical score. This pedantry is absurd when it's clear you understand the actual argument being made.\n\nNo one advocates banning facial recognition software because the code is inherently evil.", "I could hug you for being the first normal human reaction Ive had in this whole thread. Thank you.", "So glad I'm not American. This shit reminds me of that Overwatch game. You win 10 games and gain minimal points. Lose once and your score plummets", "Why don't you go credit score some bitches, ostonox?", "> it is the billions of dollars in higher interest rates [not to mention insurance premiums etc] folks pay because \"credit reporting\" has zero incentive to be accurate\n\nthat makes zero sense. if they really have \"zero incentive to be accurate\", why even bother with credit scores? why not just charge everybody the high interest rate? are banks just giving low interest rates to high credit score people because they're so altruistic?", "> The video was explaining the point of a credit score was so banks and lenders can better target people for high interest. \n\n...yeah, high risk people.", "Request your LexisNexis report if you want to see a history far far more extensive than the Big 3 credit bureaus. And of course LexisNexis will sell that report to businesses you interact with.", "That first part is entirely false. I have nothing to say, in regards to the other two statements.", "any different than seeing \"turning point USA\" and deciding not watch the video?", "It's not a big difference when the business is massive enough.", "Mike Gravel, who it is named after, was a former senator from Alaska who spent his later life repossessing land from Alaskan native tribes on behalf of Merrill Lynch, as well as becoming a 9/11 truther and libertarian", "Does it matter if Charlie Kirk is a grifting, disingenuous piece of garbage?", "> Fuck banks\n\nfun fact, the guy the gravel institute is named after spent part of his life after losing a Senate race taking land from bankrupt alaskan native tribes on behalf of merril lynch", "Nope, watched the whole thing and it was painfully, factually incorrect. \n\n&nbsp;\n\nLiteral quote from the video....\n\n>So in 1975 the first FICO score was developed but the banks weren't so interested in trust worthy or credit worthy lenders. No, they wanted those revolvers, the people who would make them as much money as possible\n\n\n&nbsp;\n\nAnd pretty much the thesis of the video comes around 9:15....\n\n> The credit score become a crucial part of this [predatory lending]. It's a tool to of discipline that makes you into the ideal customer for the banks. That's why credit scores don't reflect actual financial health\n\n\n\n\nThe entire premise of the video is that credit scores are designed to encourage debt slavery because they incentivize poor financial habits.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nWhat I'm saying is that credit scores are in no way a tool to incentivize poor financial habits as the video claims and its perfectly possible to have stellar credit while maintaining few lines of credit, never allowing interest to accrue where possible, and paying all debt obligations on-time and without incurring fees.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nThat credit scores CAN be used to target borrowers will poor financial literacy has nothing to do with the credit score itself being inaccurate or a scam.", "Yeah, because they have different models for different purposes. eg. one that predicts credit card default while another predicts whether you'll be late on your rent payment. Their models might think you have a high risk of defaulting on your credit card debt because you have a lot of credit card debt right now and have a history of being late paying them, but only a low chance of being late on rent payments because you've consistently paid your rent.", "To be fair, that wasn't internal documents. That was a New York times reporter describing a court affidavit filed by a former employee detailing hearsay. So that was, \"I'm telling you that this former employee promised the court he heard people say these things\". You're free to check the source yourself. It's a NY times article.\n\n&nbsp;\n\nIt's hard to tell because ya know... The Gravel Institute is explicitly trying to misrepresent their sources and give you that impression.", ">Either your leaving it in a checking account and making nothing on it which in that case you might as well just pay off the car\n\nor maybe a savings account? also realistically you don't need the whole balance. A year or two of payments should be more than enough to survive most economic calamities.", "> They use it to identify how profitable you will be. \n\nbut I (and many others in this thread) have a high credit score and never paid a cent of interest?", ">Once you hit 100% on time payments, and maintain that behavior, your credit score will increase less and less as time goes on, ultimately reaching a plateau where your score won't change at all. This will be somewhere around the ballpark of 700-750.\n\nThat doesn't seem correct. Mine continued to grow even with 100% on-time payments based on length of credit history and a track record of utilizing 10-30% of my credit limit, then paying off my credit cards in full. Some months, just paid them off before the statement because I was paying other bills as well.\n\n&nbsp;\n\n>As a personal anecdote, I recently decided to pay off my car loan to make budgetary room for monthly savings on a down payment for a house. My credit score dropped from 827, to 734.\n\nI don't believe you. Just straight up. Sorry but unless that car was financed for 20 years and was your longest standing line of credit by far, that's an impossible drop for a single credit line close event.\n\n&nbsp;\n\n>I have virtually zero debt beyond the 1-5% monthly credit card usage for groceries and stuff. I'm done with credit going forwards.\n\nYou can build credit without building debt. They're not the same thing intrinsically. When you pay with a debit card, that payment isn't settled immediately. You're effectively buying it on very-short term credit until the transaction clears your bank backed only by a digital promise that the funds actually exist. Otherwise over drafting wouldn't be possible. A credit card is effectively the same thing with a 1 month settlement date beyond which you owe interest on the remaining obligation.", ">my lender agrees to lend me up to $1000 a month, but the credit bureau docks me if I use more than 30%\n\nYour lender doesn't agree to lend you up to $1000/month, they agree to lend you up to $1000 at any one time. That could be $10,000 in a month or $800 you pay on for three years.\n\nYour credit report is for opening future accounts, so they're going to calculate risk based on how you behaved with that $1000 line. If it looks like you're carrying a high balance, that makes you look riskier than if you only rely on a small portion of the credit you have access to, so that it looks like you'll be less at risk of getting in over your head if they give you access to even more credit.\n\nThis makes perfectly good sense when you consider that you're borrowing across multiple lenders. My wife and I have six cards all with $20k-$30k limits. We'd be in a world of hurt if we maxed all of them out, but because we don't max any of them out, other lenders see us as less risky and are more willing to entice us to do business with them by extending us new credit lines.", "It's probably more to due with the average age of your credit history. That has a huge impact on your score. Those auto generated messages from FICO estimators are fairly crude.", "I had a credit card from college and never updated my income since I never needed a higher limit. Paid it off every month with ease. Looked at my score randomly and it was down a good amount after 5 years of always paying it off each month. It said I got too close to my credit limit every month. It’s so stupid. Updated my income and now I have a massive limit and it’s slowly going up since I don’t come close to it. You think paying off the balance monthly would be a good thing. The deciding thing", "Yeah, the gravel institute is the left-wing version of pragerU. Both are dishonest and full of bias.", "You've lost -500 FICO points for posting this video", "Yeah, sometimes you need to cosign. So it better be with someone you trust, and who trusts you.\n\nBut I can say it's entirely possible to build your credit up from nothing. My wife moved here from France and started with literally no credit. She got a secured debit card from her bank, used that until they allowed her to get a normal debit card, and then in a bit more time of paying her bills on time, she started getting offers for credit cards. She took one that had any sort of cashback, and paid all her credit bills on time, so the higher interest rate of a first-time credit card didn't matter.\n\nAnd she's currently in the high 700s after 6 years.", "good.", "There are very few ways to pay 0% interest on anything. 1) credit card and paying it off immediately. Which in this case the bank still makes money off you with swipe fees. 2) new cars, which in this case is being offered by the same people selling you the car. They're only offering you 0% because they're making enough off the new car. Outside of that, there aren't many other ways to pay 0%. So even when there is no interest, they're making money off you. \n\nHave you heard the old adage, if you aren't paying for the product, you are the product? That's what credit scores are.", "Savings account pay almost as little as checking accounts. A pandemic is just one extreme example of what can happen. Divorce, accidents, health crisis. Your car is safe from repossession in these cases because there's no one that can repossesses it. The point is when people say they can invest and earn more, mathematically that's true if we live in a perfect world and everyone is logical. Payday loans, the lottery, time shares and pawn shops prove that's not the case. We live in the real world where bad things happen and people who claim they can invest instead aren't pricing in risk into the equation.", "Did you watch the video? Hell, did you even read the title? It's literally why credit scores are a scam. It's not just a clickbait title either. It's something that they repeat in the video. They don't actually explain why though. They just say credit scores are bad, and their explanation is some cherry picked quotes and an example of a credit agency targeting black people for subprime mortgages, as if they're using your credit score to determine your race. He then proclaims that credit score is used to determine profitability rather than creditworthiness, which is blatantly untrue. There are plenty of people with good credit who are profitable, and people with shitty credit who are unprofitable.", "> 1) credit card and paying it off immediately. Which in this case the bank still makes money off you with swipe fees. \n\nright, but that's only vaguely correlated with profit? it doesn't factor in annual spend at all, and if anything disincentivizes it (higher utilization = lower score). I suppose if you go deep enough you could say that \"it identifies you as profitable because defaults are bad for profits\", then that'll be true by definition, because that's what credit scores are designed to do. But then again that isn't some sort of deep secret or something.\n\n>2) new cars, which in this case is being offered by the same people selling you the car. They're only offering you 0% because they're making enough off the new car. \n\nAFAIK dealers get kickbacks from the financing companies for offering loans. They're not paying financing companies or otherwise subsidizing the loan.", "You are so uneducated. 😂", "My god you're an idiot", "If you use a lot of your available credit. Your credit utilization will be high. So if you only have say a $500 credit limit. And you are close to that monthly then you will have a high credit utilization. So if you can get a higher limit and still stay under the 500 and pay it off monthly your score will increase quickly. But I'm surprised your CC company didn't just increase your limit after you have been making large on time payments.", "\n>right, but that's only vaguely correlated with profit? \n\nNo it's almost entirely pure profit. An additional swipe costs them virtually nothing but they make 1-2%. They aren't as profitable as a revolver though but it's still free money to them. I promise you they aren't doing these things because they think you're a nice guy. If you aren't using credit they aren't making money off you so your score goes down and then disappears. \n\n>AFAIK dealers get kickbacks from the financing companies for offering loans. They're not paying financing companies or otherwise subsidizing the loan.\n\nYou only get 0% through the captive financing companies on new cars and they're making money off dealers buying their cars. Nobody offers 0% unless they're getting something out of it", "A score that can be used differently for different races isn't a valid score. Both the lender and borrowers should get the same results when the score is the same.\n\nEdit-I guess Reddit believes black people should be treated differently than white people based on the -1 score.", "Yes, it did impact things, but what are you supposed to do about accounts like those? They get closed because they’re paid off.", "That's because gravel institute is the prageru of democratic socialism", "I've kept my old crappy credit card open for 20 years. I only use it for Netflix. That keeps it open. It's on autopay. Creates a longer average.", "OK but these guys actually are", "Yeah, the solution is pretty easy, get a high credit limit. I have a credit limit of about $50k. I only spend a few hundred a month. I'm almost always under 1%. You can get a higher total credit limit by just getting multiple cards. This will also help stabilize your average age of credit, so that paying off a loan won't hit you that hard.", "I hear ya, pretty dumb. Mine took a big hit after paying off my student loans. At the time they were my oldest accounts and my average age dropped to two years. Thankfully it did bounce back fairly quickly.", "This video fails to mention the most basic information that you will find online about credit scores, and that is its composition. Once you start understanding the composition of your credit score, a lot of what is said in this video crumbles. So lets take a look:\n\nhttps://www.myfico.com/credit-education/whats-in-your-credit-score\n\nhttps://imgur.com/gallery/b2l2T0e\n\nThis is a picture of roughly what goes into your score, go ahead and look up \"credit score composition\" to see images like it.\n\nThe biggest element to your credit score is your Payment History, there are varying degrees of missing a payment, but it will stay on your score from months to years if you forget to make a payment or have an account make it to collections. Only thing you have to do here is set up an auto pay to do at least the minimum every month, this way you will never miss a payment. I'd recommend paying more than the minimum but that's just so you don't get killed by interest. You can read more about how many days is delinquent and more specifics at the resources I put at the bottom.\n\nThe next biggest item is your Credit Utilization, which is a simple ratio of how much you have on balance vs how much you are allowed to borrow. Owe $5,000 and have a limit of $10,000? Your utilization would be 50%. However, this is a finicky one, because unlike other elements to your score, it doesn't have a \"memory\". What that means is that, say one month you are totally balls to the wall on all your cards, 99% utilization on all of them, totally maxed out. If you were to do a credit check that month, it will tank your score, because your utilization is super high, however, if next month, you come into some money and pay it all off, so you are now at 0%, do another credit check and it will boost it way up. It doesn't take into consideration your history of credit usage, it's just in the moment.\n\nThe general rule of thumb is to keep it below 30%, but 0% is best, there is no need to carry a balance on any card.\n\nThe smaller categories are as follows, New Credit, Length of History, and Credit Mix. The rules for these are simple:\n\n* Don't apply/open up a bunch of credit cards or loans in tight succession. Every time you apply for a card or loan, you get whats called a \"hard check\" on your score, this will ding it by a few points, get a bunch of those in a short time span and it will ding it by more. But if you do get dinged, its fine, it will go away in a few months.\n* Don't close your oldest account. If you close your oldest account it will shorten the average age of your credit. This is a passive category, best thing you can do is open an account at 18 and never close that first account, just have like a $5 subscription on it and have it on auto pay so it never misses a payment, check in on it every month and you'll be fine.\n* And finally, try to have some variation. Credit lenders like to see that you are not only capable of handling credit card debt but also other various instruments of lending, you'll collect these as you go through life, things like car loans, mortgages, etc. But its a tiny category and won't make that big a difference overall.\n\nAn important thing to acknowledge, we don't know the actual formula behind the score, but FICO is nice enough to provide us with rough boundaries. And based on countless individual experiences, we have managed to over time compile a pretty definitive guideline on how to get a good score. A good start to this guideline is in the resources I put at the bottom.\n\nSo by looking at these components of your score, you'll see that several things that the dude says in the video can't possibly be true. Things like\n\n> Your credit score rewards you NOT for making decisions that actually help you financially, but for taking on the maximum amount of debt that you can possibly repay.\n\nIt will not, in fact, reward you for taking on all of your debt, that would increase your utilization ratio, and would tank your score. \n\nThis video paints a very bleak and cynical picture of credit and lending, and while parts of it aren't entirely off the mark, especially bits about the 70's and 80's. Overall, and especially in its closing notes, it goes to great lengths to paint a dramatic and dystopian picture of credit, which is not entirely deserved.\n\nIt's an easy thing to criticize, and a dangerous one to defend, because many people have been scorned by their score in one way or another for no other reason than they didn't know how it actually worked. So they made one or two stupid mistakes that then fucked them over for some time. \n\nIf I could extract one useful nugget of information from this video it would be that, yes, your credit score is not the end all be all number of your financial life. It's an aspect of it, one way of measuring something very specific which is how trustworthy of a person you are to lend to. Don't stress too much about it, after all it only matters when you are actually going to take out a loan for something (like a house or car), so if you have to max out your cards for a bit because you're in a tight spot, that's fine, just remember to pay it all off and make it look as pretty as possible a few months before the big purchase.\n\n\nThere is a massive lack of education in personal finance matters in today's society (well its actually always been this way, just now its more complex), evidence for this statement can be easily found in this thread. \n\nHOWEVER\n\n \nIt doesn't have to be this way, there are many tools out there now that provide lots of resources to people wanting to learn about credit. First on this list, there is an absolutely fantastic community that I couldn't recommend enough called /r/personalfinance that will get you more than up and running on every aspect of your, well, personal finance. You should read their top 500 posts and their entire wiki, its that much of a treasure trove of information. More specifically /r/CreditCards has a lot of information about credit cards and is worth looking at their top 100 as well. [Credit Karma](https://www.creditkarma.com) is another fantastic resource that will help you get a free daily estimate on your credit score along with other helpful tools. There is plenty more out there that I haven't mentioned because I have to cut myself off at some point. Please do yourself a favor, however, and treat yourself to an education in personal finance, it really will help you achieve your goals in life and will eliminate much stress out of your life.", "To add to this, credit scores are actually less important overall than people think they are. If you have even a slightly below average credit score you will get approved for almost anything. The only difference is when say a car dealership does one of those 0% apr promos they want to see a pretty decent credit score. But the most important thing will always be your credit history and debt to income ratio anyways. The only time your credit score is gonna matter is if it is absolutely terrible and you are trying to get that best buy card or something.", "You can get a home loan or a car loan with a low 600s credit score no problem. The only thing you WONT get is the best possible loan available. Once you hit 700-750 there is literally no benefit to being higher than that. Someone with a 725 credit score will get approved for the same stuff with the same terms as anyone with an 850. The only difference that would be made then is debt to income ratio and total income in general.", "I'm at 837. When shopping for student loans for my kid, when advertised at a e.g. a 7%-13% interest, they always ended up wanting me to take them out at 12%+. I basically had to shop around for whoever had the lowest maximum rate, because that was the only rate that ever mattered.\n\nMy auto loans have all been low, for sure, but that's largely because I don't finance through dealerships (or Wells Fargo auto loans, who attempted to get me to sign up for one at 9.99% at 800+ FICO) and my credit score isn't complete garbage (which is why I didn't say, for example, \"400 or 830\" in my original post).\n\nWhen it comes to home loans and auto loans, the amount of the loan vs the value of what's being purchased has always counted for a lot more, in my experience. Credit unions I deal with generally base interest on car loans on the car's model year, and occasionally mileage along with that. If you qualify for a loan at all, those are the only things that matter, to them.\n\n\nNo credit card has ever offered me a lower interest rate based on FICO. I have five.", "👍🏻", ">\twho spent his later life repossessing land from Alaskan native tribes on behalf of Merrill Lynch.\n\nI would love to see a reference to this. The only account I could find of Mike Gravel and Merrill Lynch together was from a [1986 Washington Post article about how separately both Gravel & Lynch were both attempting to find buyers for big losses from Native Alaskan Corporations, they were not attempting to buy these losses just look for buyer for them. The buyers included Marriot, GE, Sara Lee and others](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1986/10/21/aleut-alert-firms-eye-tax-loopholes-in-alaskan-concerns/cd9f9b9a-b2aa-464a-aad4-8b9d3fdcf57e/)\n\nI could see it’s confusing as the top of the article states that there was a mistake in the previous days article that Gravel and Merrill Lynch were trying to buy them and you probably just read the October 20, 1986 article but not the next days for a correction, understandable.\n\n\nThe Gavel Institute is not run by Mike Gravel so I’m not sure what his personal (not political) beliefs have to do with the articles let alone how 20 years ago wanting an investigation into 9/11 ties into a YouTube video about credit scores.", "The Gravel Institute, AKA the Communist Channel", "Oh, that was actually my point: It works just like a credit score, just without a number, more like barriers to entry into the loan market. Sorry if that was unclear.", "Love seeing the Gravel Institute!!!", "Buy here pay here runs on a very different model to everyone else.", "Exactly…", "If you know you can't make a month's payment it's way better to be proactive and contact the company and ask for a payment arrangement.\n\nAlmost every company will let you defer a couple payments or pay some small amount while keeping your account current.", "This has nothing to do with your credit score and everything to do with your inability to prove self employment income through your tax returns. Conventional mortgages have strict underwriting regulations issued by fannie/Freddy.\n\nSomeone straight out of college with a new job can get a mortgage fairly easily. Self employment income is just subject to a much stricter scrutiny after 2008.", "Fannie/Freddy do not accepts receipts as proof of self employment income, this is literally government regulation. They require 2 years of tax returns.\n\nThere are non-conventional products for people like you.", "You can definitely get a car loan, there are lenders who will make car loans to a warm corpse.\n\nYou won't be able to get a personal loan(home improvement loan) because those companies have a much stricter lending criteria.", "The report credit karma gives you is a fake credit report, not a real one. It's their own simulation of a credit report which no lender uses.", "Their citations are frequently misleading or outright lying. Like when they cited \"internal documents\" from WF about targeting of low credit score borrowers and it turns out to be unverified heresay from one person.", "No they don't. Stop assuming every other country is as fucked as the US.", ">This “financial character” judgment is decided on in just a few minutes\n\nMaybe for an overdraft line of credit. As a mortgage underwriter there is nothing about analyzing an applicant's financial/employment health that takes \"a few minutes\" 💀", "I guess you can tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.", "Right, it just provides a source for the information you’re conveying instead it just being sourced from your ass.", "[Yes they do](https://www.settle-in-berlin.com/what-is-schufa/). Hell, in some countries its even worse by your standards - I'm given to understand for example that in Japan your credit rating isn't regulated nationally, but individually by bank. At least in the US you can build up decent credit with a small cap bank card, and that stays with you even if you move to a different bank.", "You say that like its a bad thing.", "No, they’re mostly people who lost their jobs and with it their insurance, or they can’t even afford to rent an apartment because cost of living is so fucked it’s impossible to, or they’re veterans who get fucked by the government or many other things. But yeah there’s people in many cities who probably make what you would think is “good” money, but can’t afford to live anywhere because prices are insane.", "Kinda crazy you’d say the video doesn’t hold up under scrutiny but then provide absolutely none in your comment almost as though you have nothing good to add that would hold up.", "And yet the banks are doing just fine in Finland and there is no credit score here. The banks only have access to the information you provide + distraint history (needs to go through the courts so being late/forgetting to pay your bills a few times will not show up as it has a lot of costs).\n\nSo basically the banks make their credit decision based on how much income, assets and debt you have and have you been paying your bills on time. What else could they possibly need? In reality this comes down to the bank not wanting you to use more than ~1/3 of your income for loan payments and you actually having paid your bills on time for the last couple years. Like I got loan for my apartment without ever having had any loans before or owned a credit card (still don't)", "it is because what that number really is is your probably of repaying a loan/credit card. You went from someone who was very likely to repay a loan to someone who misses payments. When you drop below 600 you are someone who they think wont repay a loan at all. That is all that number is. \n\nThey dont just make these numbers up you are just a statistic and the statistics shows that someone who misses a payment once within 7 years is much more likely to miss another payment than someone who has never missed a payment.\n\nYour insurance company does the same thing. If you get a speeding ticket or get into an accident they raise your rates because they calculate the statistics that you are now in a group of people who are more likely to get into accidents. The banks just calculate a number and let you see it, the insurance companies are calculating a similar number to see what they charge you but they dont let you see it", "in this case it is not hyperbole the gravel institute promotes the ideologies of democratic socialism and is anti capitalist. It is right on their about us page\n\n> We live under capitalism, an economic system which engages in the exploitation of billions of people around the world. The Institute advocates creating a more equal and just economy by democratizing ownership and redistributing wealth in America and around the world. https://www.gravelinstitute.org/about", "China's social credit score tracks who you hang out with and what you post online and is run by government backed entities. The US credit score system track whether or not you pay back your loans on time. You can have an 850 credit score but if you have no job and no money you still cant rent an apartment or get a car loan because they still check your ability to pay", "That's actually illegal in the EU thankfully.", "Gravel is the pragerU of the left", "It's probably something along the lines of \"people normally check it when they're worried about something lowering it, therefore there's a reason to lower it\".\n\nIt doesn't make sense though. I'm in the UK and checking your credit rating has no impact on it, so I don't see why it should in the US.\n\nEDIT: For anyone in the UK reading this, if you sign up with MoneySavingExpert Credit Club you'll be sent a free report every month.", "> Instead, it's completely obvious what the motives are and I refuse to play the game.\n\nthe worst part is you get fucked over by not playing the game not just since of credit score but just how governments are dealing with it. when you earn more money loaning money to buy a property than the cost of interest something is wrong.\n\n\nbut if you raise interest costs by 1-2% suddenly people aren't going to be able to afford there homes, so the government buckles to not cause a massive crisis and default on home loans.", "Also the score is just a tool used by the banks, the score isn't the problem, it's the philosophy of the financial institution doing predatory lending.", "What I'm saying is, it's not \"getting yourself together\". Your credit score isn't a judgement on you as a person and you seem pretty together to me. You've done well and should be proud of yourself and not turn the score into something it isn't. So they're not knocking down your door to give you a $100 AmEx black card. That's perfect - you didn't want one anyway!", "Wow did this video have your number. It's so intent on making people miserable when they don't have to be and you are like the poster child.\n\nThe person I was talking to has a good life and should be proud. Nobody - except this video and you apparently - says they should be sad over their credit score. It doesn't matter. They agree it doesn't matter. But you, with no explanation of why they should care, offered up the eloquent argument \"that's the fucking problem\".\n\nIf you're intent on finding fights you'll find life an infinite source of them. Most unnecessary, but there to make you angry if you want. And lots of people to benefit from your unhappiness, via views or votes or selling an \"alternative\". I don't think it's a good life though. His score means nothing to him and he shouldn't worry about something with no effect. My conversation with him means nothing to you and you benefit nothing from getting indignant except a stimulating of your amygdala. But it's your choice if that's how you want to live.", "american here. we’ve been working hard on getting debt under control for the last few years. paid off way more cc debt than i care to admit. paid off a heloc. score started in the low/mid 7s. per experian it got up to low/mid 8s. that is until we went to refinance our home and found out it was only mid 7s. why? because a serious delinquency was showing up on my report. we’ve never been delinquent on anything. i called every bureau and they confirmed no delinquencies on their files. my banker couldn’t answer what specifically was causing the code. i was told sometimes when a credit score is so good, a random serious delinquency will show up when it doesn’t actually exist in reality. lol wut", "Yeah. That’s what I didn’t get. It’s through my bank and I was paying it off every month and my salary tripled from when I first got approved for the card", "And you can tell yourself the opposite if it makes you feel worse.\n\nSomeday I hope you ask yourself why you want to feel worse. Life will offer up infinite opportunities to feel bad if you take them. Your fight-or-flight instinct will even reassure you that it's prudent. And people will benefit themselves off your unhappiness, like with ad-driven media to keep it fed. But it doesn't strike me as a good way to live.\n\nI prefer to be objective and selective and only pick the battles that matter.", "This reminds me of a story my Dad told me. He wondered why his credit score wasn't the highest possible despite paying all his bills on time and in full for decades. He asked an accountant he knew and the response was, \"You don't have enough debt.\" I knew that point that it was a scam and have been actively avoiding as much debt as I can.\n\nIronic sidenote: I got a debt repair ad at the beginning of the video...", "!RemindMe 5 hours", "> Open a no-fee credit card and pay it off every month and you'll have a history that quickly builds back up.\n\nThis \"tip\" that I see repeated over and over is the whole point of the claimed scam. Incentivise everyone to be continuously in debt so if they stumble in life they immediately fall into a high interest hole. Even if the card is just kept open with minimal transactions it's still a much much lower barrier of entry. \n\nI'm quite surprised at how poorly the video conveys this.", "Oh yeah it's far better that this invisible score that controls my and your life is handled by private corporations than by government officials we elect.\n\nNeither system is good, ours is worse.", "/r/enlightenedcentrist", "I can see mortgages taking a lot longer. I do indirect underwriting and decision auto/RV/boat/power sport apps in just a few minutes. There are times i have questions for the dealer about an app. They doing take long to resolve tough.", "Exactly. I’ll approve a 640 In a prime structure at 4.99% for 72 months on $40k amount financed, just as I’ll approve a 640 at 12.99% for the same term and amount financed. Their history determines their rate, more so than their score.", "in your imaginary world there are no market forces? THAT makes zero sense compared to a [real, IMO] world where market forces exist but are mitigated by sellers at every opportunity", "Not necessarily.\n\nJust because a source exists doesn't mean it's credible. Just because you cite a source doesn't mean you're actually conveying what it actually says.\n\nYes, it's better than note citing, because it allows people to more easily tell the magnitude of how full of shit your argument is, but simply having them is not an indicator of truthfulness.", "CCP:\"might I recommend a...social credit score?\"", ">If that is the case, then why are companies more likely to loan money in higher amounts to people with good credit scores? Why would they be loaning more money to people who will generate them less profits? \n\nYou seem confused, that's exactly what they're doing. They're loaning more money to the people that make them the most profits (not the least) - the people that hold a lot of debt and pay a lot of interest, those are the people with good credit scores.\n\n>You can and will have a great credit score if you pay off your credit card balance every month, paying zero interest at all.\n\nOh... That is definitely not the case. I know from experience. For a long time we put purchases on our card and we payed the balance in full and on time every month. The result was, our credit tanked, our score only dropped further and further. Our credit limit was so low that we'd have to pay off our card twice a month, just for the luxury of continuing to use it. In the end we had to stop using our card for groceries. It wouldn't have been a problem if it credit limit was higher, but because our credit rating was so low, the bank wouldn't increase our credit limit; we were totally stuck. The only way to improve our credit that we've found was to start using our debt card for almost all purchases, and ensure we never used more than 30% of our stupid low credit limit. Paying off our credit card is still necessary, but it was far from sufficient to improve our credit. \n\nIf one thing rings true about this video, it's that your credit score has nothing to do with your ability to pay back debt, it was never supposed to.", "Humans shouldn't be reduced to algorithmically generated scores.", "democratic socialism is a different thing", "I was denied twice because I had no credit history and needed a cosigner both times. Still had to pay a 2x security deposit despite having a cosigner. I had never missed a rent payment in my life and they still didn't want to rent to me.", "Nope", "The account might stay with your report, but isn't factored into your average age since the account is no longer active.", "Have you been everywhere?", "Learned this the hard way - have a 800+ credit score and was co-signing a car loan with my Fiance and was rejected because while my credit score was high, I only had one credit card to my name and that was \"not enough credit.\" We both make more than enough money, always pay bills on time.\n\nBoggles my mind.", "The Gravel Institute self-identify as socialist.", "So you admit they DO have incentive to be accurate, contrary to your prior comment?", "So have I but it still doesn't make it right. Imagine being so far up your own ass you can't tell right from wrong.", "It does mention, \"Score considers the age of both open and closed accounts.\" but that might just be for CC accounts? Mine absolutely dropped after paying off student loans, and that had nothing to do with utilization.", "wut?\n\nCredit reporting is used by sellers to rent seek, full stop.", "Paying it off every month is not in any practical sense \"being in debt\". I understand what you're saying technically, but I don't think it matters in any way.\n\nIf I used a debit card for payments, the money comes from my bank. No borrowing, but also no credit rating. Instead I use a credit card, and set up my bank to pay the credit card in full. It's exactly the same to me except for which card I pull out of my wallet. (And also I get a cash back bonus, but that's irrelevant here.)\n\nIf I \"stumble\" - and I have had financial problems in life - it's still the same issue of \"Does my bank account have money for this?\". Only the cashier won't be the one to tell me. Which I would argue is good. You should know what you can afford before you try to buy it.\n\nThe only added risk is the temptation to do badly. If you have a credit card you could overspend. If you don't, you can't. But I don't think that's in conflict with what I said. I'm talking about responsible behavior. A short-term problem is not going to change that. If anything, it gives the person more flexibility so they can always pay for transportation or what they need at the moment to ensure the bank has the money to pay for it in a few weeks. \n\nIf you're the kind of person who knows that they're too impulsive with a credit line, then yeah don't get one. And be sure not to overdraft your bank account, either. But that person also shouldn't want a high credit score for the very same reason.", ">Credit reporting is used by sellers to rent seek, full stop.\n\nDid I claim otherwise? Seems like moving the goalposts to me.", "it is the rent seeking that explains the lack of motivation to be accurate", "Is is kinda amusing that I constantly get offers for like 250 to 2000 dollar credit card’s. You know the entryway cards. Like I’m going to care about 2000 dollars of credit with 10k in emergency savings. I know it’s just their metrics but it’s funny", "When you finish paying a long-term loan, it drops off your credit report. This drops the average age of loans/credit on your account which in turn lowers your credit score.", "I want to build that dishwasher a home on the corpse of a bankster's real estate holdings, and let him live his life without debt.", "Recommend reading The Creatures of Jekyll Island by Edward Griffin. It’s eye opening.", "Your argument that DTI is all that is required for lending is wrong, your argument that credit scores prey on poor people is also wrong.\n\nA lender needs to know credit worthiness of a borrower. Someone can be a high earner with low debt and still not pay their debts. We had a former President here in the US that is quite notorious for that. \n\nAlso, a credit score is effectively blind to income, race & class. No matter your background, if you have an extensive credit history, low balance usage and on-time payments, you will have a good score. \n\nThis is significantly better than the system before where a banker could decide whether he wanted to lend you money or not based on his own whim.", "Became? I thought that was basically why it was created.", "Sortof, it was created to be a somewhat equivalent. But now it's literally a mirror reflection of PragerU, misinformation and all", "It is the case, you’re just misunderstanding that you had a different problem, most likely. In your response, you stated that your credit score kept dropping as you used your card and that your limit was so low at one point that you had to pay it in full multiple times per month in order to keep using it. This almost certainly means that at statement time, you had 100% credit utilization, which is one of the biggest red flags that exists in the scoring system. \n\nAs far as the credit reporting bureaus knew, every month your cards were maxed, which is why your score dropped. \n\nPeople that hold a lot of debt will have lower scores than people with the exact same credit and significantly lower debt. If you and I had the exact same credit history and limits but you had 30% utilization and I had 5%, my score will be higher.", "Delete this comment my dude, your credit score did not tank because you paid your card off every month. Me, my siblings, my parents all do this and nobody's score tanked. In fact, mine has hovered right around the same ~780 for a few years.", "> Whatever score your bank or credit cards gives you on an app is different score than what the car dealer will see, the landlord will see or the mortgage lender will see.\n\nWhat the hell? Then how do I know if I have good credit?", "> you can put a candy bar on credit card and pay it off immediately.\n\nPay off immediately? What do you mean? Like the day of? I have mine on auto-pay each month", ">your credit score did not tank because you paid your card off every month. \n\nNo, it did not tank because I paid off my card every month, but it did tank despite paying my card off every month. \n\nThe point I was trying to get across was that paying off your card in full is not enough to improve your credit score.", ">This almost certainly means that at statement time, you had 100% credit utilization, which is one of the biggest red flags that exists in the scoring system. \n\nI think that's exactly what was going on. I just didn't think it was a problem initially, because why should it be? I mean clearly, my track record showed that I can pay off all of that debt in full every month, so it's not outside of my means. And if I am using that much credit, and sustaining reliable repayment of that debt, should that suggest that my credit limit should be increased? Shouldn't reliably paying all of one's debts be seen as a sign of credit worthiness? \n\nI guess the credit bureaus just aren't tracking all the data that matters. Knowing only a person's credit utilization, really doesn't provide any context...", "I think they’re tracking enough data, it’s just that your behavior looks identical to someone on the literal edge of defaulting. As I’m sure you’re aware, the “simple” solution is to increase your credit and continue to manage your spending which will boost your credit rating significantly as your utilization drops. Unfortunately, unless you really research why goes into the rating, it’s rather opaque from the outside.", "Do your balances change from month to month? Changes in utilization seem to be what cause my scores to fluctuate the most.", "Dang, so no luck disputing it with the credit bureaus even with a police report?", ">And you can tell yourself the opposite if it makes you feel worse.\n\nI don't live in a country that uses credit scores. I have nothing to feel \"worse\" about.", ">>As a personal anecdote, I recently decided to pay off my car loan to make budgetary room for monthly savings on a down payment for a house. My credit score dropped from 827, to 734.\n\n>I don't believe you. Just straight up. Sorry but unless that car was financed for 20 years and was your longest standing line of credit by far, that's an impossible drop for a single credit line close event.\n\nSame. He must of compounded this with either a new credit line or even a late payment on something else. There's no way your score can drop almost 100 points from closing one account unless it's like you said, a 20 year account with no additional forms of credit that match that length", "You are so off the mark it hurts. Credit score doesn't score your achievements in financial responsibility. It scores how risky you are to be lent credit and how you handle paying that debt back. If you have no use for using credit, then you should completely ignore your credit score.\n\nA multi millionaire kid with a trust fund with zero forms of credit is going to have no credit score. He could have so much money that he could buy everything in cash that he never needs to open a credit account.\n\nBut lets say he opens a credit card for the fuck of it, maxes it out and never pays it back. His credit score is going to tank, but the dude still has millions of dollars. He can buy whatever he wants and never needs to utilize lenders to purchase any big dollar items. But from a credit lender perspective, this person has no valuable history in paying back debt so, he's risky.\n\nLikewise, a person who saves up all their money to purchase their big items in full - like a house or a car - didn't utilize credit. They have no history of using credit a therefore won't have a high credt score. There is no scam in this. No one without a good history of credit should be just given a high credit score. That would literally defeat the entire point of a credit score. You seem to just have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a credit score is actually suppose to represent.", "It's okay, enjoy living in your delusional child like world", "Credit card usage. If you're usage goes up and down you will see a swing. I pay everything with points cards and don't maintain a balance, but I can run from 1 to 20% utilization and see swings on my end", "their system is a system that punishes companies and CEOs using codified laws and corresponding punishments for violations. don’t just create a fallacy so you can disagree/critique it and stop simping for the american credit score system.", "i love how you’re being downvoted for saying it, too.", "give me a source right now that actually has evidence of the chinese social credit system working in exactly the way you just described. oh wait, you can’t because it literally doesn’t work that way at all.", "Western credit scores/ratings only take into account 'financial trustworthiness' and 'commercial trustworthiness'. \n\nChina's system is unique in that it ALSO includes Judicial enforcement (gongsi gongxin), Societal trustworthiness (shehui chengxin) & Government integrity (zhengwu chengxin). The government makes and enforces the laws.\n\n https://nhglobalpartners.com/china-social-credit-system-explained/", "> In 2015, the government set about addressing this by allowing eight companies—including Sesame parent Ant Financial—to run trial commercial credit scores. The official guidance called for a nationwide system that would “allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven, while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step,” to be in place by 2020.\n\n> In certain areas of China, call a blacklisted person on the phone and you will hear a siren and recorded message saying: “Warning, this person is on the blacklist. Be careful and urge them to repay their debts.” When a blacklisted person crosses certain intersections in Beijing, facial-recognition technology projects their face and ID number on massive electronic billboards. Beijing-based lawyer Li Xiaolin was blacklisted after a court apology he gave was deemed “insincere.” https://time.com/collection/davos-2019/5502592/china-social-credit-score/\n\nhere is an interview talking about it https://www.npr.org/2018/10/31/662436265/china-tests-a-social-credit-score\n\n> The way people are scored, it's not simply whether they miss a bill. It could be what they buy online. I mean, I think the example that the head of Sesame Credit publicly gave the press was, you know, if you buy nappies, you're responsible. So your score will go up. But if you're buying video games, you're lazy, so your school will go down.\n\nhttps://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4?op=1\n> Other potential punishable offenses include spending too long playing video games, wasting money on frivolous purchases, and posting on social media.\n\n > And in July of 2018, a Chinese university denied an incoming student his spot because the student's father had a bad social credit score for failing to repay a loan.", "thank you for providing that link because it pretty clearly invalidates your misinformation. \n\n>\tImagine Biden dropping your credit score by 300 points because you didn't get vaccinated or Trump doing the same because you're Muslim.\n\nthis is what you said. \n\n“The goal of the social credit system is to make it easier for people and businesses to make fully-informed business decisions. A high social credit score will be an indicator that a party can be trusted in a business context.”\n\nthis is what the article said. \n\nsee what you’re doing here?", "that is exactly what i wrote", "Basedonox", "since you dont believe sources in english here the actual list from Rongcheng city government's website http://www.rongcheng.gov.cn/module/download/downfile.jsp?classid=-1&filename=1902151651185292977.pdf\n\n> 出售封建迷信用品的－10 \n\nYou lose 10 points for selling traditional chinese religious supplies like [Joss paper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_paper) or other items that are burned for the dead\n\n>搞封建迷信及其他不文明行为的－10\n\nLose 10 point for participating in these burning ceremonies\n\n> 祭祀扫墓有烧香烧纸、燃放鞭炮等行为的－20\n\nlose 20 points for setting off firecrackers or burning incense during tomb sweeping\n\nThe list of things you can lose points for is ridiculously long. Many of these things are traditional religious practices of the han majority. This is from a city with virtually no muslim or tibetan population, I can only imagine how bad the rules are in those cities in the western provinces \n\n> 利用微信、论坛、博客等互联网技术发布、\n传播不良信息的 -50\n\nYou lose 50 points for posting \"false\" information online. The government decides what is false.\n\n> 散布有损国家声誉的言论，组织或者参加非法集会、游行、示威、罢工等活动的；\n\norganizing a strike or protest is automatic downgrade to B tier or lower no matter you original score\n\n> 未经公安机关批准，在公共场所集会和游行示威的\n\ngather in public without permission automatic downgrade to B tier\n\n> 受到开除党籍处分的\n\ngetting kicked out of the communist party is automatic downgrade to C tier\n\n> 拒绝、拖延民用资源征用或者阻碍对被征用的民用资源\n\nrefusing to give up your land or property to the government when expropriated in automatic downgrade to C tier\n\n> 参加法轮功等邪教组织\n\nbeing a member of falun gong is automatic downgrade to C tier\n\n> 在北京敏感地区等严禁上访场所上访的\n\nprotesting or trying to submit petition in beijing or other restricted location is automatic downgrade to D tier\n\n> 恶意制造事端，被网络及外国媒体利用的；\n\nIf you post something negative online that is picked up by foreign media that is automatic downgrade to D tier\n\n> 在信访接待场所或国家机关、医院、学校、商场、广场等公共场所摆放花圈、骨灰盒、遗像、祭品，焚烧冥币或者停放尸体的；\n\nHolding any kind of funeral ceremony in protest in public is automatic downgrade to D tier. This is how the 1989 protests started which is why it is strictly forbidden\n\nIf you get directly downgraded to B tier it last 2 years, C tier lasts 3 years and D tier 5 years", "Thank you for being more helpful than my parents and school lmao", "You've conveniently ignored the part of the article I referenced. I still stand by my statement that the Chinese government can use new and existing to ding your social credit score. I just used a hyperbolic example to explain it to the Americans.\n\nHere is an example (https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1156908.shtml) of how a Chinese city experimented with using credit score downgrades for JAYWALKING. I jaywalk but it doesn't mean that I will stop paying my credit card bill. This use of the credit score has nothing to do with trust in a business context and more about controlling/\"guiding\" the populace.", "no offense but thats a terrible source. it literally looks and reads like clickbait and global times is always spouting bullshit about china…you can do better.", "https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-system-authoritarian/", "Okay fair enough but I'm doing this research pro-bono lol. \n\nRegardless I've read about jaywalking, traffic violations and other minor demeanours being used as factors in the social credit score. And don't get me wrong, it's not all bad. It's helping Chinese society mature in some ways. But my original point still stands that the social credit score is more - lets say - comprehensive than the west and can be used to advance the central and municipal government's agenda.\n\nHeck I guess kudos for giving me a source yourself... https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-system-authoritarian/\n\n> Rongcheng takes the prize for the most brow-furrowing experiment: Volunteers snoop on neighbors, who lose points for failing to clear snow from their porches, quarreling with neighbors, and so on. (The central government has since said scoring should not be used to punish citizens.) \n\nSnow shovelling? That's like neighbourhood Housing Association level stuff lol.\n\n> In a county in Inner Mongolia, parents were threatened with blacklisting for protesting against the enforcement of Mandarin-language curricula at local schools. \n\nI mean are you convinced now?", "convinced of what? you still haven’t shown me anything that suggests that it works to the degree that you first claimed it did. i never said i support the social credit system or that it didn’t exist, but i think at this point we can agree it is a far more nuanced system than you originally made it out to be. also, i think it is within the party’s best interest to use it to advance their agenda if they’d like to reach full communism by 2050 like they claim to. although, that doesn’t look too likely so far but i don’t know why anyone would expect it to operate completely outside the government’s interest. i have also read about jaywalking, traffic violations, and heard about a hundred other random things via word of mouth and i am just very wary of believing just about anything western media says about china. my entire life as a westerner i’ve never heard a good thing about china and i think there is a reason and agenda behind that. going to china myself changed my perspective on a lot of things i previously felt negatively about regarding them and the CPC.\n\nedit: typos", ">\tRongcheng takes the prize for the most brow-furrowing experiment: Volunteers snoop on neighbors, who lose points for failing to clear snow from their porches, quarreling with neighbors, and so on. (The central government has since said scoring should not be used to punish citizens.)\n\nlol why are you acting like this is proof of a dystopian 1984 state? the last sentence literally says that the government has since written that off and doesn’t want to use it to punish citizens in that way. sounds like they had an experiment and didn’t like it.", ">\tIn a county in Inner Mongolia, parents were threatened with blacklisting for protesting against the enforcement of Mandarin-language curricula at local schools.\n\nthis also makes perfect sense to me, china is making an effort to literate their entire population and you need one national language to make that happen as efficiently as possible. why would it be anything but mandarin, by far the most widely spoken lamguage in the region? no one said they’re stripping them of the mongolian language and the people who protest against learning how to read and write honestly sound like they are hindering important progress for a feudalistic country and i don’t think its irrational to punish that.\n\nedit: typos", "I'm not saying that the Chinese government is right/wrong (or the Inner Mongolians are right/wrong). That's besides the point.\n\nMy point is that the Chinese social score is a means of enacting government agenda and that's not the case in the West.\n\nYou may think it's working for now but governments change and corruption is a real problem. Abuse of this new tool is something the Chinese will have remain vigilant about and something we in the West do not have to worry about.", "> lol why are you acting like this is proof of a dystopian 1984 state?\n\nlol why are you putting words in my mouth?\n\nRongcheng is the worst example. It was by no means the only example. Regardless it's a good thing that the central government has declared they won't punish citizens this way. But the social credit score \"rewards\" and threat of social credit score blacklists still exists.", "Dude you had one trip to China and now you think you need to share your wonderful life-changing experience with strangers on the internet.\n\nI grew up there. It's awesome, lots of great people and amazing things have happened in the past two decades. But lets not be dumb about it and assume that everything is perfect and that the government can't make mistakes.", "dude what haha i never said the government can’t make mistakes. i never had any life changing experience that i’ve felt the need to share with the world, i’m just talking to you. i’m not dogmatically supporting anything and i still stand by my statement that it is a more nuanced situation than you made it out to be. but yeah, go off i guess lmao", "i never put any words in your mouth, you acted the way you did about it and i’m calling it out, sorry if that upsets you.", "> Do you really think Suomen romanit, Somalis, or Muslims can just walk into a bank and will obtain the same kind of loan a native can with obvious income disparity? \n\nDid you even read what I said? Banks here make loan decisions based on risk and to them that is literally just income+assets, any existing debt and do you have any maksuhäiriömerkintä (have you paid your bills on time).\n\nI got plenty immigrant colleagues who have gotten loans for apartment/house/car/etc just fine so ethnicity is not a problem. It all comes down to income/wealth. \n\nAnd just due to demographics there is way more poor native finns then poor immigrants in Finland and both groups have the same problem (not enough income/wealth to access easy credit). Here in Finland the capitalistic economy does not care what color your skin is or where you are from (well at least the banks don't. some small employer could be racist as fuck though)", "It blows my mind how blatantly these institutions fuck us in the ass and we keep letting them ride us as hard as they can and do nothing. How our own hard earned money is taken from us. What isn’t a scam? Banking, rents, health insurance, car insurance, mortgage industry, credit card etc. we really are slaves of people we don’t even know. Posting a nice picture on Instagram is somehow way more important. Why can’t we do anything about this?", "> Why can’t we do anything about this?\n\nThat is the correct question. Ok, so part of the current status quo agenda (neoliberalism) was to actually convince people that either 1) don't worry, the smart people will take care of things on our behalf, or 2) the government is your enemy, water down its legitimacy, etc.\n\nThat we all feel basically helpless was / is an intentional goal of the ruling class since the 70s. Take a listen to this talk, he is specifically discussing this motivation and goals that have been underway ever since:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/_-CRMfZ3Y50?t=206", "Bro what are you going on about? If you signed a loan, then you have your loan. They have the right to choose what kind of loan they want to offer you. If you don’t want them reporting your mispayments, good luck finding a lender that won’t put down credit reporting in the loan contract.", "Bud honestly this conversation is old enough I don't think I can continue it. I don't know what missed payments you're referring to.", "My wife worked as a teller at a bank a couple of years ago, she was told to specifically market and offer credit cards to vulnerable poor people.", "What a weird fatalist determinism that the world cannot be changed from what it just turned into literally 50 years ago, a blink of an eye. Of course we can decide to change. The only reason it doesn’t happen is that people think change is not possible.", "From the video it seems like a credit score doesn’t help you to see if a tenant is earning enough to support rent, or if a tenant has a stable financial situation - rather, it looks like what it indicates is whether a tenant takes on huge amounts of debt and directs a significant portion of their income to paying off that debt.\n\nGood that you only use the score as a general guide, but it’s possible that it’s not even useful for that.", "It’s fine to be under the tyranny of money capitalists as long as it’s not the government! /s\n\nAlso companies do not compete to create credit scores that best suit those taking on the scores - they compete for the favour of people who review and offer goods or services to people depending on their scores.\n\nPeople who take on credit scores are just fucked around under the heel of the system.", "Oh, it's changing. Just that change seems unlikely to come from the current political environment. End stage capitalism will self-destruct, if it's not deliberately restructured. My impression, however, is that we're past the point where a 'graceful' restructure could be engineered by the existing political system.", "Well that’s not good news for anyone, particularly those wanting to create a better world. Sounds like we’re all going to be put up against a wall and shot. Great!", "Its more of \"This person is likely to have problems\". Their car gets repo'd and they can't make it to work or they lose their job and don't have a buffer, that is now my problem. \n\nYou can have a ton of debt but still a respectable credit score if you stay on top of it. Likewise you can have little debt and a crap score if you are missing payments. \n\nIts basically a sniff test. Not the be all end all, but may lead me to ask additional questions or favor someone with a better score over them, all other things being equal. \n\nAs a landlord there are less and less things you can consider when screening tenants, and if someone wants to make problems for you, its very easy to, even if you were on the up and up. Not renting to someone is sort of like firing them, and you need to basically be an HR department that is able to potentially show a case as to why you didn't chose them, so the person who clearly couldn't afford it and was unprofessional in your interaction can't say you didn't rent because of their race, or they were a woman, or they had a hook for a hand or something, even though the reason you didn't rent to them was they stepped on your gardening on the way in, spit on the patio, and said they don't smoke yet reeked of it.", "Worked out a little differently for the royals during the French revolution. \n\nFWIW, I'd love to be wrong.", "Mate do you know what happened to the progressives and leftists during the French Revolution? Look up the coup of thermidor and the white terror, and consider that the French Revolution ended up with an enlightened despot who was himself betrayed by his foreign minister for not being conservative enough.", "different social credit programs have been rolled out in a few dozen districts as experiments like this. china is really decentralized, and a program in guangdong is wildly different than one in (this case) shandong. currently it seems it has only targeted 34 groups that are employed by the central government such as medical staff, teachers and administrators." ]	710	videos	Why Credit Scores Are a Scam - The Gravel Institute
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/repzjn/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/repzjn/deleted_by_user/	[ "This was unwatchable.", "Cool", "Well", "Okay", "I agree, the only limit they're pushing is maybe some suppressed \"spicy tension\" between the two of 'em.", "Please remove yourself from the internet", "Cool", "Stupid shit doesn't get any less stupid when you strap a phone to your face.", "As a VRChat player this was actually really impressive. Also are you okay after that treadmill jump that looked REALLY bad.", "This guy is constantly pushing the limits of what ~~can~~ should be done in Virtual Reality. ftfy" ]	10	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/zGqpkivT-2U	/r/videos/comments/reqofy/knockin_on_heavens_door_scene_from_pat_garrett/	[ "Disclaimer: I did upload this video to youtube but I'm not posting this here to promote my channel or anything like that, this is one of the most beautiful scenes I've seen on film and I just wanted to share it in higher quality cause everyting else I found on youtube was 240p. Enjoy.", "That movie was ok. Glad Dylan stuck with music instead of acting :)", "Dylan is definitely a better musician than an actor but I like him in this and I think the film is great in general. Soundtrack is perfect, casting is great, beautiful cinematography and even though the film is very brutal and cynical it stops and takes it's time to deliver this beautiful death scene. Definitely in my top 10." ]	5	videos	Knockin' on Heaven's Door scene from Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid (1973)
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/rer210/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/rer210/deleted_by_user/	[ "k, that was pretty amazing. Good job!", "That was awesome!", "I'm here along for the ride, because this one's going to the top. Very nice work.", "Hope so 🙏", "Well done!\nA new Christmas classic.", "I am now in the holiday spirit. Thank you.", "Badass", "This falls under the \"die hard is a Christmas movie\" category. Thanks for the ammo against my wife for holiday music!", "Fuck Yeah", "Another for the list- [The Night Santa Went Crazy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FJU4GrXztE)", "That was pretty dope", "This is amazing. Super well done.", "wild christmas song haha", "Oh lord YES!", "Dayum! Well done!", "As classic and amazing as this is, my favorite will always be the Tool/Mariah Carry mashup, mostly because I just love Sober so much and those two songs mash so weirdly perfectly together. Great work!" ]	16	videos	[deleted by user]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VmCvChcGzU&feature=youtu.be	/r/videos/comments/rerbla/being_rudely_awoken_by_a_north_korean_missile/	[ "Sounds like I should take a trip to North Korea.", "Problem with this is, one day NK is gonna launch one that actually lands on a japanese fishing boat or some shit and thats game over for NK.", "Interesting that the tv turns itself on the the emergenvy signal, I wonder if all tv's have this remote function?", "Let's be honest, they're way more likely to hit an illegal Chinese fishing boat.", "They've gotten away with a lot worse than that and nothing ever happened.", "[North Korea missile: How long has Japan got to defend itself?](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41087874)\n\n>In other words, if the missile had been launched at a Japanese target, there could have been as little as four minutes between receiving the alert and impact - very little time to get to safety. And that's assuming people see the messages as soon as they're sent.\n\nAlert: \"A North Korean missile has been detected. Take cover in a reinforced building.\" \nThis guy: \"How annoying! This will make a great three minute YouTube video.\"", "They literally have fired artillery at South Korean islands. No one is doing anything.", "Do it. Take lots of pictures", "Japan glares at North Korea....\n\nCould you fucking NOT? Its 6am!", "\"Yeah I could have gotten to safety, but what about my brand?\"", "They literally sank a S Korean naval vessel, killing 46. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking", "[ROKS Cheonan sinking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking) \n \n >The ROKS Cheonan sinking occurred on 26 March 2010, when Cheonan, a Pohang-class corvette of the Republic of Korea Navy, carrying 104 personnel, sank off the country's west coast near Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea, killing 46 seamen. The cause of the sinking remains in dispute, although evidence points to North Korea. A South Korean-led official investigation carried out by a team of international experts from South Korea, the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and Sweden presented a summary of its investigation on 20 May 2010, concluding that the warship had been sunk by a North Korean torpedo fired by a midget submarine.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "I've been told by many redditors and people from twitter that North Korea is unironically an amazing country where nothing bad happens except for when America does it. If you believe otherwise you're falling for Nazi CIA propoganda. \n\nSocial media was a mistake.", "\"Oh hey, its a tornado siren because something was spotted on radar 20 miles to the east. Going back to bed now.\"", "This was 4 years ago.", "I have no idea what point you're trying to make.", "Abroad in Japan. What a gem of a channel it is. Recently found it and it's absolutely amazing.", "If you live in the Midwest or in Tornado Alley, you recognize this guy's reaction. Its no different than what we do when our smartphones begin going off, screaming about a tornado that will have zero effect on you.", "I heard that's what they do once in a while, to bully Japan into giving them food when NK is on the verge of a famine.", "A lot of \"smart\" TVs do.", "They literally killed US servicemen with axes, bombed South Korean islands, and sunk South Korean naval ships with hundreds dead.\n\nNobody is going do anything, much less Japan.", "They can hit Japan itself and nobody is going to do anything.", "Ironic the hard-on reddit has for NK. If it was any non-nuke nation, it would have been invaded by now by US.", "How many times has the world predicted North Korea will collapse due to famine... I lost count.", "If NK wasnt an authoritarian hellscape it could give good lives to its citizens.", "I guess i was just dreaming out loud.", "This reminds me that I really must book a visit to North Korea.", "Finally someone is talking about how fucked up it is to \"go on a vacation\" to north korea.", "Japan likely can't because they are still banned since WW2 from having a full scale military other than to protect from an invasion and the USA has to protect them in case anything else happens.", "The real reason is that NK has protocols in place so that if SK declares war or anyone tries to invade NK, they will fire off 1000s of hidden artillery directly at Seoul. Experts have calculated that this would immediately devestate the SK population and there is no effective plan to neuter this strategy beforehand. Also, China is allies with NK and they would likely defend them which is how we would start WW fucking 3.", "And grab a poster as a souvenir!", "Aren't they technically still \"at war\" with the South, so kinda fair game?", "Always nice to see Abroad in Japan hit the front page", "You're probably right, esp since it would effectively be the equivilent to a V2? Cuz they won't put a nuclear warhead on one, they don't want to lose their fiefdom.", "His new studio is amazing, and after watching his channel for last few years, Im stoked for him to finally have his dream studio.", "Well they're being propped up by China so they'll be alright", "He won an award for this video, he documents it in a subsequent followup. This channel is worth subscribing to, he has a typically British way of presenting his material but it's very interesting to see the impact Japan has had on his personality over the years.", "Abroad in Japan is a great channel for any interested in Japan. Always has funny, informative, and high quality videos.", "As I understand it, in that they never signed a peace treaty, and are technically just in a very long cease-fire, yes legally there is still a state of war between the two Koreas.\n\nSo you can say \"kinda fair game\", but it's a fairly substantial violation of the cease-fire. The S Koreans have for the most part massively restrained themselves, possibly in part due to US urging. But legally there's nothing stopping the South Koreans from just shooting NK in the head (metaphorically... I think.).", "Idk, it's on my bucket list since it would be such a vastly different and interesting experience.", "👍🏻", "Lmao right? Like why...", "Three years ago Hawaii got its \"Incoming Ballistic Missile, this is not a drill\" alert.\n\nThe Hawaii message didn't even bother to tell people what to do: https://snapjudgment.org/episode/this-is-not-a-drill-snap-classic/\n\nA Hiroshima atomic bomb survivor heard the alert and decided to go back to bed. She really didn't want to deal with that again.", "China would say otherwise. They’re not keen to have Americans so close to their borders. NK is a useful buffer zone to them.", "There has been a lot of momentum to amending that part of their constitution, currently they just use loopholes.", "This video is oooold", "The conspiracy that it really was Chinese nuke launched by a rogue submarine crew is one of the most believable out there.\n\nThey shot down the missile, the Chinese destroyed their own sub and both the US and China decided to put a lid on it.", "That's not very believable at all, but I guess it could be the MOST believable still, if others are like \"Aliens shot a missile but they didn't know we had atmosphere so it burned up before destroying Hawaii\".", "I have never heard of this youtuber before, but last night I couldn't find anything to watch so put on this random documentary on Prime called Cat Nation. It was made by this guy! And it was one of the most boring and stupid things I ever tried to watch. Got about 40 mins in and couldn't take it anymore. \n\nThe guy was funny but the way the doc was put together was just so uninteresting.", "Funny thing.\n\nHe recently just a week back made a video on this 😂😂\n\nCheck this video out https://youtu.be/IPGLhCq2RNk \n\nHis content is great, i personally dig it.", "The problem is that the regime is funding their cruelty to their people with the money tourists give them. It's all fake. It is all a show. North Korean citizens are being starved, silenced and threatened with death to themselves and their families. Go watch a few interviews with NK defectors. The amount of pain these poor people went through just to escape is so... awful. \n\nThink about what it would take for you to pack a small bag, get up in the middle of the night, and leave the only home you've known. You know the military is out looking for people like you and they will shoot on sight because they know that if they don't, they will be punished as well. They don't hold you accountable. It is you AND your family. Generations of pain. Just for you to have the chance of escaping to a country you know nothing about. You've only seen glimpses of it through media that has been smuggled in. You will not be accepted into South Korea due to neutrality agreements. So you do not speak the language. You have heard whispers of people that would help smuggle you across borders if you even live to see them, but those people are also strangers. The number of North Koreans sold into slavery after defecting is... so so big. Sex slavery, men being forced to do physical labor in places like China. You finally get past the border and swim across to shore just to be in similar conditions you were in before. Nobody is looking for you. If the police find you at any point unless you are able to reach a country that would actually help you, you're gone. Back to North Korea you go. Then you get to be beaten and forced to do manual labor. If you're \"lucky\" enough to have no family left there, your only solace is knowing your family won't pay for your actions. You're stuck in a labor camp doing backbreaking labor. \n\nThis is the reality. Your money is not helping those people. It is helping the regime bully other nations with their nukes. It's all a show. None of what you see is the reality for anyone in North Korea that is actually suffering. Sure you'll see people on bikes, walking, maybe some people in cars, workers on the train. But that is not what is happening beyond where your tour is. These are higher ups. People that have done enough for the state in order to be recognized, to have a salary that allows them to feed their families. Model citizens don't make waves and they won't because that would be risking their family's wellbeing. There is a reason that satelite photos of NK are only lit up in Pyongyang. The north doesn't have the electricity to run at night. These people are hungry. Constantly. The regime does not care about them and they are paralyzed with fear. \n\nThey even watch the teachers that come from outside of NK like a hawk. They don't want external influence anywhere, especially not the next generation. It's so sad to hear a teacher say that when they asked the kids what they wanted to be when they grew up, what are their thoughts on a topic- the kids didn't know how to answer. They didn't know how to think for themselves. And that is just the children that are able to go to school.\n\nYou got a video from a local smuggler. It has movies on it. You're a child. You and your little brother shut the blinds. You sit inches away from the screen to keep the volume as low as possible. It is encouraged to call authorities on suspicious activity. You've heard the stories of punishment from watching media not created by the state, but you are a child. You pop in the video and you see South Korean kids going to school, their mother's packing them lunches, they study and then go out to the city with their friends to relax after a long day of classes. It's like a fairytale to you. That is not what your life looks like. This is so different than the movies made in North Korea. Very, very different. You imagine yourself in the world this movie is showing. It's just a daydream. This is not your reality. Things couldn't be THAT good elsewhere, right? You have been brought up listening to state media talking about how horrible life outside of North Korea is. We are the lucky ones, aren't we? Your stomach rumbles. You hear a noise outside and shut the TV off, hoping it isn't the police.\n\nYou are given your family allotment of food. Rice. Never enough. Your family eats lizards, bugs, and other small animals they can catch to fulfill some amount of caloric intake needed to be a farmer for the state. Your little brother has been unwell for months. He is stick thin. You are too, but you give him your rice hoping that he fills out, that you no longer see his ribs poking through his skin, that the distention in his belly caused by malnutrition and starvation may one day disappear.\n\nYour father, the man that brought you into this world, is sick and refuses to eat. Your mother passed years ago from illness that could have been easily treated in other places in the world, but you don't know that. Your father no longer wishes to take food away from his family because he knows that he is going to pass anyway. He portions his rice. 3/4 of it is for you and your brother, he takes the rest and eats slowly as if it would make him fuller. He tells you not to alert authorities of his incoming death because that would mean one person less in the household, one less bag of rice. He tells you he loves you and to take care of your brother. You cry. You're still young, yourself. You cannot help your father. You cannot help your brother. You do as your father did and give most of your rice to your little brother. He doesn't understand why.\n\nYou leave with your brother in the middle of the night. Your father is dead on his bed mat. He's been gone for a few weeks now. You whisper that you love him and tell your brother to stay silent. There is a smuggler you've heard about. They do not come to you. You must escape and go to them. The anxiety is causing you to shake. The uncertainty is killing you inside. You're malnourished, yourself. It's cold. You reach the river you've been told about and hide behind some brush. Peeking over the bushes, you watch for soldiers, cars. All you hear is silence. Crickets and other small animals making noises louder than you would feel comfortable making. Any wrong move and you send yourself and your brother to the labor camp or worse. He can die because of you. You are still a child. Your little brother trusts you, but he is young. He fidgets on your back and you shush him. The coast is clear and you make your way to the river. It's cold. Your brother weighs you down, but you manage to get to the other side and duck before a soldier patrols the other side, looking for people just like you. You made it, you think. The journey isn't over. Not even close.\n\nYour brother says he is hungry. You packed some rice balls, but you have to ration them. You don't have any more food than what you've brought. You tell him to wait, kiss him on the forehead, and continue your trek. You cannot risk being that close to the border. You were already lucky enough not to be shot dead in the water. You have to keep going.\n\nYou're walking through areas that have no paths. You have a crude map to your destination, but you don't know the area. You know very little about this smuggler. All you know is that he is a man, maybe the age of your father, and that he is in a house with a light in the window. You see a street, but you cannot take it. Any sign of you in the open would risk alerting local police who would send you back to North Korea. It's a death sentence. You see people, but cannot flag them down. Any of them could find out you're North Korean. You do not know the language. You do not have family in this area. Your aunt tried to escape, made it to China, and was sold into sex slavery by the very people she saved up to get her out. Nobody knows if she is alive. You only heard rumors from others that escaped. Murmurs that may or may not be true, but you know these things happen. Often. You duck behind trees and navigate with the stars.\n\nYou've made it. You knock on the door and a man answers the door. You do not know if this man is the one you are looking for. He quickly looks out the door and hurries you both inside. He knows very little of your language but he tries. He is the only one you can trust, but from the stories of labor and sex slaves, people turning in others to the police and being sent back, you are wary. You tuck your brother in and tell him to be quiet. You grab a piece of the rice ball and give it to him, eating a small amount.\n\nYou learn about the punishment this man would face if he is found to be smuggling North Koreans across the border. He is risking a lot, but you still cannot get yourself to trust him. You are on edge. Permanently. One wrong move, one word in Korean, and everyone will know. People are scared of you. They want nothing to do with you. You are a pest to them. They speak badly upon North Koreans. You cannot defend yourself. You stay silent and do your best to keep to yourself on your ride over the boarder to a place that wouldn't send you back. It is a long journey. You and your little brother lay in the back seat under hay, maybe cloth, maybe trash. Whatever will hide you. This man is driving alone. He is the only one in this car. If he is found to be harboring North Koreans, you are all goners.\n\nA police officer pulls over the driver. Your heart skips a beat. You put your hand over your brother's mouth. You want to hold him, tell him to be quiet, but all you can do is look him in the eyes and try to communicate the gravity of the situation. You have tears in your eyes. Your body is shaking. You cannot understand the police officer or the driver. The officer leaves. The driver starts the car again and murmurs something in broken Korean that you're safe. You let out a sigh of relief. You get a new name, a new life, a job. You are a child.", "The USA dropped a nuke on japan and was the only country on the planet to do so.\n\nWhy do yanks project the war crimes they have done themselves on to others?\n\nI guess that's why Americans worry so much about nukes. They assume other nations are as flippant about their use of these weapons as they themselves are.\n\nNorth Korea lost 15% of its population due to US bombardment. I think the north Koreans have a lot more right to worry about being killed than anybody else. \n\nGotta love everybody here talking about politics with virtually zero context. I guess opining on things based on actual information and history is too much to expect from yanks. ", "Are you siding with N. Korea on this?", "I never said I thought my money was helping the people. Imo it's akin to visiting China or, 40 years ago, the Soviet Union. Those places are also doing absolutely abysmal things, but it's a very interesting place to visit from a historical and cultural perspective.", "I just wanted to mention this: every single thing I mentioned in my other comment was pieces of stories from actual defectors. I may have messed up small details like the amount of food per person, but I promise you that these people are not okay. These are real things that happened to real people.\n\nThere is a quote that I cannot find and I will probably butcher it. It was a quote I found in an article about immigrants fleeing to the United States a few years ago. It talked about how people will only flee their homeland if their home is the mouth of a beast. People are traumatized and they want better lives for themselves and their families. We want a roof over our heads, a future for our children, a stable job that puts enough food on the table, clean water, a safe place to sleep without fearing the people in your area. By going to a place like North Korea, you are helping to fund the horrors put onto their people. I know that is not your intention and I do understand why people want to go, trust me. But your money is not helping the people that need it the most and you are only adding to this narrative of \"all of these foreigners come visit North Korea because of how jealous they are of what we have\" that the state puts out. They are using you and they are hoping you see what you are shown on these tours- the empty hotels, the streets with barely any cars- and you believe that it is a reality for the people of North Korea. The tours are controlled. You cannot take photos of certain things. You cannot take a photo of any depiction of the leaders if they are not fully in frame- giant statues must be in frame from food to head. Tour guides will ask you to show your photos and delete things they do not want to be shown. You don't have a choice. They're playing make believe. The people you meet are so kind, especially in the neutral zone. You play ping pong with them, they know English. They laugh and smile. You see shows put on by kindergarteners that are so immensely talented for their age. It's all a show. They have been chosen specifically to show off to foreigner's. What other country does this? \n\nReally think about this. Please do not go to North Korea. You would be unintentionally supporting and approving of a regime for what? A holiday? There are so many other places you could go. No place is without controversy, but North Korea is not a place that is appropriate. I understand the draw that people have, but please think critically about that decision and think about what your visit means to North Korea. You are a pawn. They want you to come back and tell your friends that it wasn't as bad as you thought it was and they get to use you as a piggy bank to fatten up its leaders and continue their awful power play.\n\nSouth Korea is beautiful. Go there. Play tourist, go to all those areas. But then spend a few days in cultural areas, then go to a few cities! This is what North Korea could and should be. The difference is shocking and the people don't deserve it. All they did was be born in that area. They deserve so much more. Gawking at how North Koreans live on that tour is exploitative. Again, I know you do not have that intention. I am not trying to be judgemental at all. I just really want you to reconsider.", "It's like you're replying to a comment you didn't even read.", "Yeah in Japan they have had this function for a long time. If you look at the tsunami warning videos on YouTube there is a moment where the \"wake all TVs up\" signal comes through as a loud bleeping noise.", "That sounds vaguely like the plot of Hunt the Red October.", "Wow how weird! I watched the video and agree on some parts. But I did actually enjoy his humour in the doc. What irked me was the editing / lack of content. He starts in a cat cafe. Goes to a cat island, cat pub, then back to a cat cafe?! So much repetition. I think he actually goes to two cat islands? It just felt like the same over and over \n\nI’ll give his regular YT a go.", "Ya everyone (and i mean foreigners in japan and even youngsters nowadays in japan hate the japanese TV. Its very bad tbh)\n\nAnd i was watching Chris Abroad live stream on his second channel, just two days back. It was a 4 hour livestream, which i shamelessly watched. \n\nIn that he goes into detail even more about the aforementioned documentary. Also he has a video too on it form few years back. \n\nHis channel is quite nice to watch, the info on japanese things seems pretty spot on." ]	59	videos	Being Rudely Awoken by a North Korean Missile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35DSdw7dHjs#t=30s	/r/videos/comments/rerc8u/ned_beattys_monologue_in_network_1976_a_great/	[ "Powerful performance!", "The whole movie is well worth a watch, though this scene has always stood out for me", "Its a gorgeous scene!", "Ned Beatty is an awesome actor.", "I'm mad as hell and im not gonna take it anymore!", "Key Element -- \"And now they must put it back!\"\n\nWelcome to Economics!", "Peter Finch’s delivery of “I have seen the face of God” gets me every time.", "Try this one\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1MBRElQrFE", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1MBRElQrFE", "Keepin it going \n\nhttps://youtu.be/aKAFlHQRcj0", "How have I never heard this before?", "Wow, I loved that. Thanks for sharing it!", "Ooh thanks for that, I really dug it", "Any recommendations for a start to listening to more of his work?" ]	15	videos	Ned Beatty's monologue in Network (1976). A great monologue that still matters today in the world of business and media interests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msSgxkHA04M&feature=youtu.be	/r/videos/comments/rerkcx/japan_in_the_2000s_the_lost_decade/	[ "Let me have a crack at the films:\n\nNobody Knows.\n\nShiki-Jitsu (Ritual).\n\nKakera: A Piece of Our Life.\n\nA Takeshi movie with Susumu Terajima. \n\nPerhaps Swing Girls? \n\nNot sure if one shot is from Love Exposure. \n\nPlease comment if you spot more. All of these movies are seriously worthwhile checking out.", "Wow thanks for the comment! I was looking to watch them, but didnt know the names. \n\nThank you very much for commenting the names.", "Please reach out if you have any questions or if you end up seeing any of them and have any thoughts. I could write so much about each of these movies." ]	3	videos	Japan in the 2000s \| The lost decade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QKPQ6JYVhU	/r/videos/comments/rero25/can_autotune_make_me_a_good_singer_tom_scott_plus/	[ "I’ve been watching Beth for a few years, but I missed this one.", "The short answer is no.", "Can auto-tune make Tom stop interrupting the producer every 5 seconds?", "That did not need to be almost half an hour long.", "Auto-tune doesn't make bad singers sound good.\n\nIt makes good singers sound bad.", "The music teacher I love watching is Ken tamplin may have to follow beth too now", "the long answer is yes. I mean I heard people taking random dialogue and auto tune into pretty dam good song", "And if you put a microphone in the hands of those people doing the dialogue and ask them to sing they would be only as good as they are without autotune.", "I think it's quite possible Tom was very uncomfortable hearing his own voice and it affected how he normally interacts with people.", "Definitely. It always disturbs me when people aren't able to perceive something so obvious.", "I found the vocal coaching session quite interesting. Didn't see any major segment that had no value.", "That's just a pedantic misconstruction of the title.", "Tom actually has a lot of potential - it really just boils down to his lack of confidence.", "What did I misconstrue or leave open to misinterpretation? Taking dialogue and turning it into a quality piece of music is a testament to the skill of the sound engineer, not the singer.", "I should be pretty obvious to anyone who has heard of auto-tune that the title refers to whether auto-tune can make a recording of Scott sound like he's a good singer. Just like if the title was \"can photoshop make me look good?\", no one would assume that the software will be used to alter someone's physical appearance.", "Obvious to everyone except the person who posted the question? \n\nWow. And you call me a pedant!", "No doubt. As a singer myself, I understand how incredibly awkward it is to expose yourself like that to others. It would be like getting naked in front of a lot of people.", "I will aspire to be as perceptive and insightful as you.", "Don't limit yourself.", "Autotune is like laying a 1 inch coat of gloss over a relief painting after filling in all the dips and divots.", "I find it disheartening that people can become annoyed from just watching a pleasant guy feel a little vulnerable.", "Lol FWIW, I completely agree. It absolutely crushes the nuance and 'soul' of any decent vocal recording.", "Beth ROARS is a damn good name for someone with a career in singing or vocal coaching.", "actually it could have been a bit longer with more time spent breaking down the autotune process with more examples. The vocal coach stuff was great and not something you usually see and worked great for setting a base context for what the autotune had to start with, it was just the autotune section that was lacking a good payoff, even when I thought most of that sections content was also insightful.", "Can't remember the guys name, but a former professional music producer who now does youtube stuff did a short talk about what he thinks autotune is useful for. To sum up his answer: It can't hide bad singing without the artificial \"twang\" (what people recognize as the autotune sound you hear in those dialogue videos you mention), instead what it does is help inconsistant singers achieve \"perfection\" by cutting up multiple recordings and combining all the best bits together in one super recording and then touching up any loose pitches or unwanted artifacts/sounds (breath breaks, odd background noise, minor cracks). The songs comes out super clean, but in his opinion can be too clean sometimes and lose some of the \"character\" that a more natural recording would retain.", "Auotune, when used that way, does not sound like a \"good singer\". It sounds like something else entirely.", "It's a damn good aptronym!", "Ok man, we get it. It's awkward to sing in front of people. She's a vocal coach, her job is to teach you how do it better. Telling her how bad you feel about your singing over and over again is only eating in your training time and disrupting her lesson flow. \n\nBeing a good student is about trusting the person teaching you, forget about judging yourself, and let them train and instruct you. After all, they're the experts. This happens all the time in math and science instruction. Students expend so much energy explaining how bad they are at it, wanting to shield themselves from criticism. But all it does is reinforce their own expectations of failure and prevents real improvement. This wasn't cringey because he was a bad singer, it was cingey because he kept overriding the instructors, he was not a receptive student.", "In my opinion, auto-tune only make people sound worse. But what do I know? :)", "Rick Beato?" ]	30	videos	Can auto-tune make me a good singer? - Tom Scott plus Beth Roars and Adam Neely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pbJfQsjOQU	/r/videos/comments/rerpd0/for_some_reason_i_feel_this_could_be_the_next/	[ "You will not achieve internet fame today.", "I'm not Mitch McConnell, duh.", "Why does he always look like he’s snickering to himself about some perverted thing he got away with?" ]	3	videos	For some reason I feel this could be the next "super meme". Random find on the ole web today.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=u2R4CW57bB0&feature=share	/r/videos/comments/rersr1/macross_plus_movie_edition_10_min_preview_eng_sub/	[ "That really is one of the all time great anime films.", "I remember way back when at Foothill Anime club Manga Entertainment previewed the dub of this anime to us to see what we thought of it. Overall we were impressed with how good it was. Back then this was one of the few good dubs of anime.", "I wish I had known about this sooner.\n\nThis is easily my all-time favorite anime.", "YF-19 vs YF-21\n\ngo!", "Until episode 4.", "how does this connect to the Rick Hunter / Lisa one of my childhood?", "It's the right continuity instead of sewing two other unrelated anime together.", "thanks. so its a sequel?", "Not a direct one Macross Plus was created in celebration of the 15th anniversary of Super Dimensional Fortress Macross or that witch you know as Robotech the Macross Saga.", "got it. thank you!", "If you want to learn more [Toy Galaxy](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCYSDJQezavKQNm6zCRKJ6Lur9cE-sfCY) on Youtube has a pretty comprehensive series on the confusing history of Robotech and by extension Macross.", "Are these just a sampling of clips or is this actually the first 10 minutes of the movie edition? If it's the first 10 minutes I can't say I like the recut. The opening montage with them as young friends is gone. The initial battle before Isamu transfers to Eden to become a test pilot is gone.", "I want to say it was cut but it's been a hot minute since I last watched it.", "It's later in the timeline, but not a direct sequel. It's set about 30 years after the events of the original SDF Macross (or more or less the first season of Robotech) and deals with two test pilots vying for thier experimental jets to be the next generation of Valkyrie (Veritech to you). \n\nMeanwhile, a crazy AI does weird stuff. And the music is killer." ]	13	videos	MACROSS PLUS MOVIE EDITION 10 Min Preview (ENG Sub) Fathom Events 12/14 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzf72YcftdU	/r/videos/comments/rervg7/americas_unwanted_children_trade_children/	[ "Nope, couldn't get past 50 seconds. Jesus Christ what is wrong with America - how can anyone sit in that room and think that's okay. Nope, nope, nope.", "That’s what blew my mind. Especially the man that said “nothing list nothing gained” if he didn’t want to adopt a child.", "WHAT THE FUCK", "The biggest issue with America, which is the root cause of all the issues you listed, is collective consciousness. \n\nFor some reason, American self-awareness is less than nearly all western countries. Here in Europe everyone views America to be an interesting place, with beautiful scenery, but we all see that the people there are generally, whilst often pleasant enough, are just not as aware. \n\nInsincerity and lack of common sense is just so much more normalised, likely due to the cultural pressure towards over-confidence.\n\nEdit: This isn't of course an absolute thing, just a trend. But a trend we all hope loses its popularity.", "US is actually a collection of states which have their own laws. This is a criminal offense in California. Pretty disgusting that any state would turn a blind eye to this.", "Yeah I'm in the same boat. Felt sick to my stomach.", ">the entire world is similar, or worse.\n\nThat mindset is part of the problem. America has significant, measurable, problems that don't exist in plenty of other places.\n\n>I'm sure Europe is 100% doing everything on the up and up\n\nIt doesn't have to be perfect to be better.", "Whoever thought up that catwalk idea is a sociopath.", "The irony of the comment is glaring.", ">and general poverty\n\nOK, just taking this one as an example: the US poverty rate is [amongst the worst](https://data.oecd.org/inequality/poverty-rate.htm) in OECD countries.\n\nNot all of this stuff is easy to measure or compare. But saying \"everywhere is equally bad because of my anecdotal experience\" basically dismisses any actual evidence. The idea that America is so great already -- or at least that everywhere else must suck too -- mostly seems to hinder people from actually improving it.", "I'm crying my eyes out. What the fuck. GODDAMMIT, what is wrong with us? I could not be more ashamed at what we allow. I've seen dogs treated better. I love dogs, but these are fucking CHILDREN.", "There is something seriously wrong here. It's like we're trying to be the example for the world of what NOT to do.", "It is so EVIL and the tragedy is this is the best our infrastructure seems to offer.", "The guy in the video, Tom took Frank in for 6 months and then said it wasn't working out and put him back up for rehoming - what the fuck. Literally the actual devil, Satan himself, would be appalled by this practice. He'd take one look at this and be like \"nah, man, I don't want anybody this evil in my domain.\"", "No, worse. This is... inhuman. It's child abuse.", "I'm not going to lie, at first I genuinely thought that this was going to be a bit for like the SPCA advertising how cruel it is to rehome puppies a few months after Christmas or something. But then it just kept going and it turns out this is fucking real, what the flying fuck, man.", "The hypocrisy of how we treat children and the abortion laws drive me insane. This is the kind of shit that hypocrisy leads to. The idea that ACTUAL children can be treated like disposable objects is 1,000x more of an issue. \n\nThat fucking runway was MADDENING. Children trying to sell themselves like meat in hopes that they can just be loved. They just want a chance in life. I understand a couple wanting a baby. I can't blame the adopters, but these children need good homes too. \n\nIn the end I just can't understand people who have adopted saying, \"Meh, I don't want this kid anymore...\" They're no longer fun? They just wanted dress up doll for awhile? I have this idea in my mind of what these people are like and it disgusts me. It's almost cliche now, but I can't think of the mother being a \"Karen\" type. It's this type of American woman who is self-centered, fake, and cruel. Someone who doesn't even know what is wrong with this abhorrent behavior.", "> Like there’s so many families that want to adopt.\n\nBaby adoption is extremely easy and lucrative. Many parents want fresh babies, after that the price parents are willing to pay goes down dramatically until you hit the point where people are paid to take the children.", "Of course it's held in a church", "And all this in the richest country in the history of the world.", "You prefer somebody who isn't good at raising kids keep raising him?", "I think what this person takes issue with is the flippancy of it all. \n\nThese people have normalized treating children like products for purchase. It is a very selfish or unfortunate mind that can say “it just wasn’t working out” about a human child they decided to take responsibility for. He hardly seems to have tried - six months isn’t near long enough to work through the initial trauma or settling period of an adoption. \n\nThe same flippancy can be seen in the comment “nothing gained nothing lost.”\n\nThese people see children as something to collect, purchase, and give away if it doesn’t “work out”.", "It seems so, so risky in that respect: a genuine catalogue of unwanted and vulnerable children.", "Agreed. Evil sociopath.", "Sometimes we have to stop comparing ourselves and call out the failings of our morality. We have to decide to be better ourselves because we want to be better, not because we are in competition with others.\n\nPointing at another country and saying “look, they do it too!” is cowardice and willful ignorance. \n\nLet’s hold ourselves to a higher standard.", "You may have experiences that say so, but data doesn’t lie. \n\nWe are one of the greatest under-performers of the “developed world”.", "Do you …. Do you really tell adults who don’t agree with you “you’re not my mom”?\n\nI recommend working on that. That is a very strange and immature quality.", "This is unbelievably horrific.", "And they're putting make-up on the kids!", "There should be no money involved in adoption ever anywhere.", "Largest economy. It's not the richest country per person, it just has a much larger population than any other richer country.", "This is what your Republican libertarianism gets you! No laws, no regulations, freedom to exploit, freedom to turn a blind eye, freedom to be crueler than anyone could imagine.", "Yes, this is what I was aiming at and I guess that didn't come across with what I said. \"It's not working out\" is something you say about a pair of shoes or a salad, not a child you've adopted out of a group home.\n\nThere are more humane ways to provide a temporary home to a child who doesn't have a family - you foster them. If a bond forms, you adopt them. If not, they return to their previous home or get fostered by another family or adopted by another family. At least then it's clear than this is a temporary, transitory arrangement. It's far less cruel. And usually doesn't happen with a pageant where kids try to advertise themselves. They were even putting makeup on Frank, for fuck's sake.", "Well said.\n\nI was so disgusted by the make-up bit. There were \\~30 seconds to \"shine\". It was a pageant at best, human auction at worse. You could tell some children were on the verge of understanding this, while others were playing along in likely desperation to be seen and loved.\n\nWhoever thought of this should burn in hell.", "It saddened me in a way I didn't know I could feel.\n\nI feel lost after seeing this.", "The reality is that these kids and the state don't have a ton of options. I personally don't know why the US allows for foreign adoption of kids you aren't related to. Want to give a kid a better life? We got tons of them here.", "And the agencies will shop those states and make sure the adoption takes place in the ones where cash for kids is still OK.", "I mean you were kind of baited into thinking something is wrong with America in the first 10 seconds. It’s a big country with hundreds of millions of people, some things are going to be fucked up.", "It is true that the options are limited, a failure to be certain.\n\nIt hurts me to say this, but sometimes I think foreign adoption is reflective of one of two things, possibly three: a) lineage in another country and the desire to adopt a child of your ethnic lineage/background, b) taking advantage of a system that is easier to navigate/avoiding the challenges of the American adoption system/failing the adoption process in America, and c) an interest in having a child that is perceived as exotic.\n\nI know a couple that adopted due to b - they could not afford an American adoption - and another person who has expressed interest in adopting a \"little black baby from Africa\" reflecting 'c'. Many don't even understand that this is so horrifically racist and the mentality of colonisation.\n\nAnyway, yes, we have so many children in need in this country.", "And now SCOTUS is poised to overturn Roe v. Wade and exacerbate the problem. Barret even suggested safe haven laws that allow woman to give up a child freely would alleviate the concerns of mothers who would be forced to give birth. I am not making this up. \n\n> [\"Regarding \"safe haven\" laws in states that let women hand over unwanted babies to healthcare facilities without penalty: \"Both Roe and Casey emphasize the burdens of parenting. And insofar as you ... focus on the ways in which forced parenting, forced motherhood, would hinder women's access to the workplace and to equal opportunities, it's also focused on the consequences of parenting and the obligations of motherhood that flow from pregnancy. Why don't the safe haven laws take care of that problem?\"](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/so-fundamental-quotes-us-supreme-court-abortion-case-2021-12-01/)", "It is unbelievable. We are falling behind modern society in every way. We are slipping and we can't afford it.\n\nThank you for sharing this excerpt.", "Something is wrong with America.", "Move out of Louisiana. It’s a shit hole.", "I did three days ago, in fact.", "Thank God! Good luck, hope you moved somewhere that isn’t as big of a cesspool.", "Thank you for the well wishing.\n\nI've lived so many places - New Orleans, Manhattan, Boston, Southern California, Vermont, New Jersey ... Tokyo, France, Iceland, Tanzania ... can't run from the problems that upset me, but some places truly are a bit too much.", "Travel nurse?", "Girl, you know it.", "I can’t find the word to accurately describe how I feel about this.\n\nRepugnant, horrendous, amoral, sad, disgusting, depressing, add them up into one word and you get close.\n\nI’m going to look into this more deeply and see if there is anything I can do to help put a stop to it. Money (no problem, I have plenty). Time (no problem, retiring soon).", "\"6 months later they're not compatible.\"\nYou don't get to choose if a child is compatible! That's the whole thing with taking on the responsibility of having a kid. YOU MAKE IT WORK!", "Six. Freaking. Months.\n\nI can't believe anyone is really trying anything if they only put in six months of work. I couldn't believe that Kevin - a seemingly wonderful child - was given up after two years. \n\nThe evil of this system breaks my heart.", "How wonderful of you. This comment brought me genuine joy.", "What exactly is the correct process for adopting kids anyways? Do they usually just walk around the homes and look at which kid they want or something? Make videos to advertise themselves? Or is supposed to be a blind adoption? \n\nLooks bad but to me seems like every method looks horrible. Least these kids get to be in the spot light for the moment and talked about instead of someone passing them over for a split second look.", "This is actually the worst way it could happen.\n\nThey don't have a spotlight. They may be children and think that is what is happening, but this is an auction. This is dressing up and being paraded in front of apathetic buyers who think children are for sale and trade. This is NOT a spotlight.\n\nThe real system doesn't work as it used to. You don't show up to an orphanage swarming with kids and choose one. The process is usually done with a counsellor and agent, one involved with an adoption agency, and you have extensive meetings that leads you towards a child. You may meet one or two, but you do a lot of homework and \"therapy\" before you seriously engage with the child. They try to \"match\" you rather than making it a weird roulette of selection. After that there are more meetings, background investigations, etc., [Here](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/parenting/guides/adopting-a-child.html) is more on the process if you want to know.\n\nThe video is describing a very unregulated horrific process for kids who have already been placed and are essentially being \"returned\" by their adopted parents. Though, returned isn't right because they are not going back to an agency. [They are soliciting parents via FaceBook, Craiglist, etc. to \"sell\" the child or \"relieve\" themselves of the child.](https://www.wired.com/story/adoption-moved-to-facebook-and-a-war-began/) This article is a must. It is akin to adopting a cat, deciding you don't want it, but instead of working with an agency to go through the appropriate routes, going to Craigslist and finding a new owner. ONLY WITH CHILDREN.\n\nThis is the worst way it could happen.", "It is so foul. These people deserve prison time.", "Still sounds horrible being that obviously the new method leaves a ton of children going unadopted. No surprise I constantly see kids calling up news agencies wanting to get adopted before they age out. \n\nBut I agree it should be much stricter though.", "Because there is a shortage of YOUNG children for adoption. Plenty of families are willing to adopt a child they get to raise as their own. They're not willing to adopt a kid with possible behavioral issues from a broken home.", "For anyone wanting to help children like these, please consider Foster Care. If foster care is not an option for you, consider CASA. You can help mentor these children in Foster Care by going on weekly outings to coffee, lunch, the mall etc. Then you make an official recommendation to the court about the long term plan for your CASA child. You will make a difference in the life of the child you mentor and it only takes an hour a week.", "Well this is the most fucked up thing I have seen in weeks and I watch /r/combatfootage regularly......", "Have you watched A Handmaid's Tale?", "Obviously not all, but there's a certain type of person who adopts/fosters for no reason other than narcissism. There are people who are just naive/optimistic, they think that they will take in children who might have deep trauma and just fix it with love, those people are wrong but they aren't narcissists or bad people. The narcissists think they will fix everything because they are so amazing and when they \"fix\" the child that will prove it.\n\nWhen that inevitably doesn't happen easily they tell themselves that it's because child cannot be helped, or doesn't want to be helped. Then then try to get rid of them, and often get really angry at the child because by not magically getting over the trauma they are shattering the narcissistic delusion. I remember when I was 11 I had a placement with one of those, I had been with her for like two months and she caught me crying alone. She completely freaked out at me for being ungrateful and all that trash, and sent me back.", "This is just what adoption looks like under unfettered capitalism. No insight. No control. Just a free market.\n\nIf anything, this should be a wake up call for us to start questioning our current economic system.", "It isn't about \"being good\" at raising kids. \n\nIt's about a system that allows people to adopt children, and then just change their mind a little later and actually almost auction them off.\n\nIf someone is looking to adopt, they should be confident in themselves, ready to love that child unconditionally and raise it until it moves out nomatter how the child is or does. \n\nThe fact the US allows such a thing to exist just goes to show how utterly fucked up that country is, but americans will keep waving their flag thinking it's such a great country. \n\nPerhaps the ideals that founded the country is, but it hasn't been a great country for fucking ages. And inb4 \"But look at other countries, they be much worse\" I have only one thing to say:\n\nJust because someone else is fatter than you, doesn't make your pants fit any better, ok? (Courtesy of Doug Stanhope)", "not even 1 fucking minute in and I am already questioning the reality", "This made me really angry. I couldn’t watch more than 5 minutes.", "Disgusting - humans as goods. Thougth this times were gone.", "Indeed I have. It definitely had that vibe.", "I feel similar. I’ve seen messed up shit but this hit different.", "That’s a terrible story and makes me so sad.\n\nYeah I think we all agree that unfit parents are unfit. I don’t endorse parents being flippant but I also don’t endorse keeping them with bad people. The system is just really shitty.", "I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.", "Stay, because otherwise its these bastards.", "Nope, they are alive and well.\n\nThe Super Bowl is actually one of the most lucrative and utilised events for child trafficking (not related to this video). We are far from done with the trade of human flesh, whether it be for labor, nefarious acts, or commodity.", "That is the biggest thing stopping my wife and I. As compassionate as we are, my kids always come first.", "Using the theme from the Leftovers as music, jesus.", "A family member of mine went to a family court here in the US. A judge would call families up and watch as a parent releasing custody of their child to the state while saying yes to such horrible questions from the judge such as “...and by putting your child in the care of the state voluntarily, you understand that you will never have the opportunity to legally care for them ever again?” while a 5 year old child just stands there in the room and fucking sobs. \n\nThere were many of these types of situations in that same courtroom that day.", "Let us know if you get the ball rolling on anything \n\nI’d definitely contribute", "Will do", "NEVER FORGET! REPUBLICANS ARE '\"pro-birth\" NOT pro-life or pro-children!", "You're not smart enough to understand what he meant or did you just want to argue with strangers on the internet?", "It came across, but some people have pasta for brains", "GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! MAGA /s", "Hence why many of us choose not to live in SHIT HOLE red states, they are like 3rd world countries but in the US", "Republicans and Libertarians don't want any laws because so many of them are pedophiles. Look at Matt Gaetz. It's much harder to fuck children if there are laws", "GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! \"EXPORT\" DEMOCRACY! /s MAGA! /s", "It's too big! The Republican states fuck up their states, they turn them in to welfare states, they such the money out of education to keep their state stupid. And when someone gets made the Republicans say, \"iTs nOt uS! iTs tHe eViL FeDeRaL gOvErNmEnt!\"", "MAGA /s", "UP VOTE THIS!!!! \\^\\^\\^\\^", "Where else would you fuck children with no consequences?", "\"SCOTUS\" REPUBLICANS!!!!!!!!! stop pretending you're too stupid to understand what is at the root of the evil.", "Stay, go make a difference, even if it's in just 1 kid's life", "It is common for CPS to remove kids from bad homes and put them in WORSE homes and then not do anything about it. That's common", "I can also understand how these \"markets\" evolved when you look at the normal adoption process. It's long, it's heart wrenching, it can be extremely disappointing, and it's horribly horribly expensive. We need an overhaul of the entire adoption system.", "Agreed. Unregulated processes always will develop and many of them will transform into these horrifying expressions." ]	94	videos	America's Unwanted Children Trade - children "advertised" via catwalk parade in bid for adoption
https://youtu.be/lsybsBhenOo	/r/videos/comments/res6i1/plastics_recycling_in_america_was_never_designed/	[ "My brother spent a lot of time investigating this issue and I'm really proud of him for committing to this format. Figured I'd share it here as it's full of good information!", "had an argument recently with people who thought that videos like this implied that nothing is recycled. \n\naluminum is absolutely recycled, and you shouldn't feel bad about recycling aluminum cans.\n\nthat said, plastic packaging is awful and we really need a better alternative. i think we should eschew some of the logic that food packaging needs to be non-biodegradable. if my frozen burritos came in paper pouches instead of plastic, it would be just fine.", "I recall attending a seminar about sustainability and a speaker from an aluminum recycling facility gave a 20 minute long impassioned speech about how folks don't realize how easily recyclable cans are or that they can get paid for all that scrap. I try to buy things that are not in plastic but some of it is currently unavoidable. I bought some noodles from a reputable company this week and part of that decision was influenced but the paper packaging that they came in. I opened them yesterday and BAM! totally coated in plastic on the inside. Shit sucks.", "Green-washing, a warm blanket to comfort the consumer mind.", "I never realized how prevalent this is until a few years ago when researching sustainable packaging options in the cannabis industry.", "Plastic is particularly excellent at not being permeable, which prevents food spoilage. I'm not really sure what you could replace it with that wouldn't be even more disastrous for the environment. Paper would not hold up very long in a freezer.", "As someone who worked in waste management: no one who works in the recycling industry has any illusions it's not just a more expensive version of a garbage can", "> we really need a better alternative. \n\nWe have the technology. For thousands of years we used hemp products.", "Do people not know metal melts?", "Fun fact: green ink is the most environmentally unfriendly of all the inks.", "My college had a huge marketing campaign about how efficient it's new plumbing system was with low flow everything. On the surface it did look good. But if you broke into the subbasement and weaseled your way into the steam tunnels, you would see that hundreds of gallons of water are being wasted every hour due to leaky old pipes. Newsflash: putting low flow toilets on a leaky sub system does not save water.", "My hope is that lots of “recycled” plastic is in the same place. And we’ll be able to recycle that plastic in the future.", "Make companies who sell products which are plastic or packaged in plastic recycle the amount of plastic equal to what they produce. This will result in more recycling and or promote companies to find sustainable alternatives.", "Yeah I’m pissed, my city charges residents and gives us a zero sort recycling bin, but if there is more than 10% non-recyclables in the mix the entire load goes to landfill. Apparently my city hasn’t recycled anything for the past 10 years….", "Right? Apparently people are pretty dumb", "What’s silly is it doesn’t seem incredibly hard to do. Make filling stations for home supplies like soaps, etc, have the meat dept wrap your meat requested in paper, use some of the millions of biodegradable packaging we hear about for packaged goods, use glass for bottles, create a system where restaurant customers can bring in a reusable to go tray and deposit it in a cleaning apparatus and take home a freshly cleaned one with their food. \n\nIt’s honestly quite simple to make a lot of this happen but corporations want you to think it’s hard or overly expensive for them so that they don’t miss their quarterly profits. In reality, our world is being destroyed and there’s no cost on how fucked up that is.", "The problem with metals is, that they react to anything (except maybe gold but it’s too expensive). That’s why coke cans have a plastic coating inside. Otherwise they would just dissolve. \n\nIf that’s not enough for downsides: aluminum production and recycling is very energy hungry.", "In Switzerland only PET plastic (drink containers only) is collected and actually recycled. All other plastics go in the regular trash and are burned cleanly in incinerators that generate heat and electricity. There are some tests markets testing to see if it is viable to recycled other plastics but until now only glass/paper and metals are recycled across the whole country.", "Plastic also melts, but it is extremely difficult to recycle.", "Wax paper can hold up pretty well for a couple of months in the freezer. Freezer paper will last months, but it’s coated in plastic, dammit to hell.", "It really isn't. No need to melt it before reusing it, it just needs to be ground down. If it is separated into individual types of plastic it can be reused along side the same type in further processing.", "I got some burritos from Costco that had paper packaging. Not sure if it was biodegradable or whatnot but it was paper", "Is that the case? I think I heard that one of the problems with recycling plastics is not all the types can be recycled indefinitely, and after being recycled a couple times it can just burn instead of melting. Still, the point is moot since it costs more to recycle plastic than make new plastic.", "Even if I probably agree with the point, I'm starting to hate these random \"youtube documentaries.\" Not only are they full of know-it-all conspiracy jargon (\"just another arm of the propaganda machine,\" \"just another colony of the Jeffery Bezosian empire\") but they're always made by someone who sounds very young with no stated credentials or experience in anything. Why should I spend my time listening to this?\n\nThey're also full of confirmation bias because they're usually just trying to convince you of something, not do a full accounting of the facts like real journalism. As evidence, this is literally the only video on the channel, which is self-described as \"anti-capitalist video essays and bad jokes.\" Definitely sounds like a trustworthy source of information.\n\nThere's a lot of good investigative journalism out there (especially on this topic). This is not it.", "Yea, I've actually experimented with wax paper to store stuff in the freezer, but it's not airtight so I ended up having to put it all in a ziplock to prevent freezer burn. Kinda defeats the purpose, though I do reuse my freezer ziplocks. Just doing what I can but it's hard to completely avoid plastics in a lot of cases :(", ">... All other plastics go in the regular trash and are burned cleanly in incinerators that generate heat and electricity. \n\nLOL, dat green-washing....", "This can only be done twice with PET and HDPE.\n\naluminum can be melted down an infinite number of times.", "It can't be that simple considering how little recyclable plastic we actually recycle, sadly. :(", "There is a lot of complex filtering but yes, not all is captured however when it comes to plastic all of those harmful chemicals are captured.", "> if my frozen burritos came in paper pouches instead of plastic, it would be just fine.\n\nIt wouldn't. That's the problem.\n\nEven the \"paper\" wrapping you might be thinking of for more \"natural\" packaging tends to be petro-chemical coated. Biodegradable plastics are used in some cases to appeal to that market segment, but \"biodegradable\" plastic usually just means that it very rapidly breaks down into microplastics and not that it just turns to soil naturally.\n\nIf your burrito were actually wrapped in paper pouches, it would freezerburn almost immediately. Our entire overly processed way of life depends on plastics to control moisture content in foods. Your burrito, if wrapped in paper, would suck. A lot. Many of the things you bought online would be damaged if not for those impenetrable clamshells or even just shrink wrap. \n\nThe only plausible solution here is less packaging, which means a very different approach to food and consumer goods. Our material culture is astonishingly disposable. That is the problem, and the only problem. Trying to make those disposable products nominally environmentally friendly is if anything doing more harm than good by convincing the people who are willing to help that they're helping. There's this general sense out there right now that the solution is just more and better technology - that somehow we can consume our way out of this problem of overconsumption as long as we just consume the right things. Bullshit.", "For frozen burritos? I hope you like food so freezerburned it's nearly inedible and tastes like the warehouse it was stored in.\n\nThe problem is the lifestyle, not the trappings of it.", "Any paper that actually works well in the freezer is plastic coated. Wax paper is better than nothing (though still not good enough to store warehoused frozen processed foods), but even most wax paper is petro-chemical based and not exactly much better for the environment.\n\nPeople will look for any solution to an environmental issue... as long as it doesn't force them to change their lifestyle.", "It isn't necessarily. Burning trash for power can be done very cleanly (at massive upfront cost) and is one of the better solutions to our trash problem.\n\nIt's a better solution because the only other real solution is \"throw it in the ocean\", of course. The basic issue is that we're generating an unfathomable amount of waste, far beyond our ability to deal with it regardless of what the waste is or how we attempt to deal with it.", "Both of those can be recycled more than twice. But yes, aluminum can be recycled more for sure.", "Separate them into their individual types. HDPE,PET,PVC, etc. Then they get ground/chipped up. Mixed in with \"clean plastic\" and processed again.", "You are correct. Plastics can be reused far more times than people seem to understand. It isn't an infinite process but it is recyclable.", "I don't believe that for a second. Tamales last a long time in the freezer and they're just wrapped in corn husks. \"plastic is the only option for preserving things in the freezer\" sounds like a convenient lie from the petrochemical industry. Plastic is just so cheap that there's no incentive to find environmentally friendly (I mean biodegradable) substitutes, for fear that they wouod cost 20 times as much.", "Depends on the type of plastic. The plastic you're talking about is in the vast minority.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LELvVUIz5pY", "Best is banning. The whole trick since the 50s has been, not letting those companies go bankrupt at a stop. You know what, fuck them. But unfortunately, lobby exist and they paid to stay relevant. now they are full and can slowly pull back. The petroleum corp has pulled enough revenue so they dont care if oil gets banned.\n\nSterilization from plastics is real and will decrease population. Hey conspiracy nuts, attack the plastic industry instead of vaccine and 5G.", "It better then micro plastics.", "This is the mindset of today’s best and brightest.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nIf so, we’re fucked as a civilization.", "And the filters that catch these 'better than micro plastic' particles?", ">It isn't necessarily. Burning trash for power can be done very cleanly (at massive upfront cost) and is one of the better solutions to our trash problem.\n>\n>It's a better solution because the only other real solution is \"throw it in the ocean\", of course. The basic issue is that we're generating an unfathomable amount of waste, far beyond our ability to deal with it regardless of what the waste is or how we attempt to deal with it.\n\nMassive upfront costs, you say? Does the count of 'cleanly' scale with cost?", "Another thing that gets left out of the discussion is the impact the alternatives have on the environment. \n\nPaper packaging might lead to waste thats biodegradable, but we need to take into account how it's made. Most (if not all) plastic alternatives have a much higher CO2 footprint than plastic packaging. They also often require a large amount of land to grow/produce the source material.\n\nPersonally, I'm on team incinerator. Instead of attempting to reuse/recycle the plastic we use (we're never going to stop using it entirely), let's burn it. Burn it efficiently enough that there's no airborne waste and generate electricity in the process.", "This is true of EVs too... People speak of electric vehicles like they're going to transform our carbon emissions. But the reality is depending where you are, there's a good chance most of your fuel is carbon based anyway... )Electricity created for the burning of fossil fuels).\n\nPlus mining raw materials for EV batteries is a very carbon intensive process. \n\nThe solution is to make our cars more carbon neutral, and environmentally friendly, the solution is to take less trips in your car. Or live in a community designed such that you don't need to own a car.", "> the reality is depending where you are, there's a good chance most of your fuel is carbon based anyway... )Electricity created for the burning of fossil fuels)\n\nEven if you account for the contribution of fossil fuels to the energy an EV uses, electric cars [still have significantly lower carbon emissions than gas cars](https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf).\n\n>Plus mining raw materials for EV batteries is a very carbon intensive process\n\nAs the above lifecycle analysis shows, even if you account for the carbon footprint of battery production, EVs still have a significantly lower carbon footprint than gas cars.\n\n>The solution is to make our cars more carbon neutral\n\nWhich is what EV are doing, by halving vehicle lifecycle carbon footprint compared to gas cars.", "Get out of here with facts that dont fit his narrative", "Not recyclable, biodegradable", "Micro plastics cause cell damage and are currently in your blood stream. I don't think recycling is the way out.", "Great idea", "It's a wash with aluminum cans, removing the plastic and cleaning make just mining bauxite and smelting aluminum same energy.", "[Transportation is the largest contributor of greenhouse gasses](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions). I get that it seems silly that EV production is carbon-intensive and you end up plugging them into fossil fuel generated electricity anyway. But if transportation is the biggest culprit when it comes to emissions, maybe it makes sense to focus on that rather than the industry or energy production behind it.", "👍🏻", "You can't recycle micro plastics but active coal is possible.", "Its everywhere. They hide pollution under the guise of \"green\". Solarpanels are another one. Just search \"solar panel recycling\" on Youtube. There are literally zero recycling plants for those things, but we produce millions every year in China. \n\nMade with costly build materials like metals, and kobalt mined with childlabour in Africa. \n\nOnce you start looking deeper into a lot of the green options you realize its just a way for rich people to make even more money. \n\nIts quite saddening because all the propaganda surrounding it will make l\nyou sound like a nutjob if you speak out. \n\nSaying things like \"recycling plastic is not worth it\" or \"solarpanels will create more pollution\" just sound very weird even if you are 100% factually correct.\n\n\nPeople forgot about reduse, reuse and recycle being the slogan. And instead use recycle as catch all.", "This isn't a professional journalist, it's some guy doing a video essay and I didn't find anything wrong with the information or delivery.\n\n> They're also full of confirmation bias because they're usually just trying to convince you of something, not do a full accounting of the facts like real journalism. \n\nLol journalism is a dead industry that hasn't been decent in decades.\n\n> There's a lot of good investigative journalism out there (especially on this topic). This is not it.\n\nLike what?", "Recycling as a whole is a corporate scam.", "This is not applicable to the concept of recycling, other countries have done it well.", "On biodegradable packing - Just wanted to let people know that if you throw biodegradable items in the trash its literally no different. You have to bury or compost biodegradable items for them to make a difference.", "If the only output is CO2, it's pretty clean. If the plastic could biodegrade, then it would turn out similarly.", ">If the only output is CO2, it's pretty clean. If the plastic could biodegrade, then it would turn out similarly.\n\nIf only, but filters needed to be addressed and consumables must be dealt with and stored.", "But you cant make a paper package air tight, thats the whole point of using plastic packages.", "For tousands of years we struggle with preservation, Glass, Aluminium and plastic are the best Methods to seal food to have it preserved longer than a Day :D", ">You can't recycle micro plastics but active coal is possible.\n\nCorrect; we're conversing about the combusted detritus of poly materials getting filtered out of the 'simple co^2' output of incinerating trash.\n\nSince filters are not infinite and eventually saturate, then what? Is the filter full of active coal? What is done with the coal now saturated with hazardous waste?", ">There is a lot of complex filtering but yes, not all is captured however when it comes to plastic all of those harmful chemicals are captured.\n\nYou've caught the bumper; it's no longer attached to the car. Now what?\n\nWhere are your capture filters of hazardous materials taken once saturated?", "The remainder from the burning is called \"schlacke\" and it sent to facilities that try to recover things from it [1]. Per law the schlacke can not containe more than 1% metal before it is buried. \n\nThe stuff filtered from the dirty air is also in solid form and mostly buried.\n\n[1] https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/-/video/-?urn=urn:srf:video:d8f14e5f-c921-446a-89c8-8b73d5642260", "full ban of plastic and letting the petroleum and chemical industry go bankrupt. the limited filters can be used for already buried plastics in sea and soil.", ">The remainder from the burning is called \"schlacke\" and it sent to facilities that try to recover things from it [1]. Per law the schlacke can not containe more than 1% metal before it is buried. \n>\n>The stuff filtered from the dirty air is also in solid form and mostly buried.\n>\n>[1] https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/-/video/-?urn=urn:srf:video:d8f14e5f-c921-446a-89c8-8b73d5642260\n\nJust like the nuclear solution but with the benefit of more co^2 in the air; how novel and green this clean incineration.", "The nuclear waste issue is a joke. At least for Switzerland with it's 5 reactors. The total waste of all of those produced in the last 60+ years fits into a small warehouse, that is it.", ">The nuclear waste issue is a joke. At least for Switzerland with it's 5 reactors. The total waste of all of those produced in the last 60+ years fits into a small warehouse, that is it.\n\nStorage of hazardous materials is no joke; until ignition is worked out fission is still the game. Thorium or any of the other salts still have a waste/recycle system to determine/invent. But that's a straw man to our thread.\n\nWe're talking about 'clean incineration'; I referenced nuclear because storage of waste materials is a serious issue for any energy system. \n\nAnother diversion on this is to ponder the spent turbine blades from wind generation. Clean, efficient landfilling!" ]	70	videos	Plastics Recycling in America was Never Designed to Work
https://youtu.be/x_jGPf764d0	/r/videos/comments/ret7dn/how_britain_stole_45_trillion_from_india/	[ "We have a new way now. It’s called capitalism. They do sweetheart deals that benefit the fewest number of people and keep most impoverished. The exact same result.", "This entire video comes off as really pretentious, which is expected because it's Vice. It is also something that is very difficult to explain in 5 minutes, and something I wouldn't trust learning about entirely from Vice.", "The British Raj is inexcusable, there is no nuance needed here. Not anymore than you need nuance to denounce the Holocaust or the Holodomor. It's not that hard to explain, people just overlook the atrocities of the British empire for some reason and then when the subject comes up they act all surprised and suspicious.", "Found the Brit", "Found the false assumption.", "Wow, what a fucking moron.", "Can't tell if u are sarcastic or serious", "Stole? You mean took, by conquest. \n\nWeaker or more peaceful societies generally end up getting their stuff taken by stronger societies. Just the way of the universe.", "Looted*\n\n\nHere u go", "What's your address? I'll send over a few big guys with guns, and they can help themselves to \"conquering\" all your stuff. And maybe your body if they feel like it. \n\nDon't complain. It's the way of the universe.", "If some adult came and killed your pet and looted your house u should not complain as it's rule of natural and he took by conquest as u were weaker as u were not able to defend yourself.", "This is just a small slice of what people who defend capitalism's history dismiss. Every single day you will hear things like \"communism accounted for millions of deaths in Russia, China and their satellite states\". It's true that the ideology can be at least partly attributed to the incentives that lead to unnecessary deaths. \n\nAlmost never do you hear that capitalism in its early and modern forms had a 400-500 year head start for unleashing incentivized horrors on humans across the globe.", "I’m not saying it’s fair or right. It still sucks.\n\nI also keep a 27 glock in my dresser JIC.", "Imperialism isn't capitalism.", "Dutch and English East India companies were the ones who gained footholds in this region’s areas. They weren’t 100% governmental organizations.", "Just because they were companies didn't mean the methods they used were capitalist. They were mercantilist, which is the economic system capitalism replaced. The East India companies didn't have any competition, for example, because the British weren't chartering competing companies and they were able to drive out other nations' attempts. Competitive markets is the hallmark of capitalism.", "China killed more of its population than WWII yet they're great people who don't enslave others. Right? But because the UK is white and had slavery hundreds of years ago, let's ignore China because they're Asian and let's bash white people for no reason! You're an idiot.", ">they're great people who don't enslave others\n\n>let's ignore China \n\n>let's bash white people for no reason\n\nYour words. Your stupid, ignorant words.\n\nThe fact that the CCP is evil today is not a reason to forget that Britain was evil less than a century ago. And is still materially enriched by that evil. \n\nYou fucking moron.", "Every country had a bad past. Every one of them. Don't cherry pick and blame people who don't look like you, because it's convenient. You're closed minded about the past, and you are infact, the bigger, fatter fucking moron, Bill.", "Who's cherry-picking, guy who brought up China in a thread about India and Britain? Who's closed-minded, guy demanding that I forget about an empire's crimes? \n\nThis is a video about history. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it go away, you knuckle-dragging sack of pig shit.", "Biased propaganda video that suits the interest of the CCP who donate money to Reddit. India has caste systems. One of the most racist countries in the world. Wtf is an \"untouchable\" and why are there millions upon millions of them? But no. It's racist England that still dictates Indian policy right? Stupid panty sniffer, grow up Bill.", "They've got a point though. \n\nYou can't take a very complicated situation, as Britain ruling India for 200 years and create a full objective piece on it, especially one that's only 5 minutes.", "Yeah. Pretty much every colonial power was/is subjugating, and imprisoning other nations people into concentration camps. Which is extremely gross. \n\nGermany was just the first to do it within modern times against other Europeans, in a large scale.\n\nIt seems like throughout history, as long as the middle class of developed nations are complacent, the extreme upper classes of those nations were allowed to create mass-tragedy on a global scale. \n\nWe're doing it right now, 95% of people posting on Reddit are buying and trading goods that are built by people who are treated horribly, and like slaves, but we would need to give up our comforts in order to do anything about it. \n\nIt seems to me like it's just easier to judge people from before we were born, for doing the wrong thing, when a vast majority, myself included, are pretty much repeating that same shitty history, just in a new wrapper." ]	23	videos	How Britain stole 45 trillion from india
https://youtu.be/_xoDcj-GFn4	/r/videos/comments/retfsp/hertz_customers_have_been_wrongfully_arrested_for/	[ "40 days in jail over a rented car. Even if I didn't have a dollar to my name, i'd try to sue the shit out of them for the rest of my life. NOOOOOO FUCKING WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.", "\"Not until ur arrested.\" Lol, that got me at the end. They have rented millions of cars since 2008, and that database only has 300+ incidents of stolen vehicles? If it was such a problem, wouldn't the issue be more widespread than (300+)/(millions of rentals)?", "I’d sue and demand a jury trial. This type of things need to be aired out in public.", "What's the right number of people who should be arrested for crimes they didn't commit?", "I don't understand the point you're trying to make.", "and the right number of vehicles that should be purchased and maintained without proper vetting at any level? Every time I even think about going to my mechanics they record my VIN number", "Didn’t it occur at some point to that woman that she should hire a lawyer? People are so submissive to police that they tell them they’re going to sit in jail for something they didn’t do and they’re just like ok.", "No, that was not a database of stolen vehicles or reports of stolen vehicles. It was a database of lawsuits for false arrest or similar claims. So it does not include cases where a vehicle was reported stolen but the matter was resolved in some other way—the victim may have been stopped by police but released without being arrested if police figured out on the scene that Hertz screwed up, or the victim may have been arrested but did not have the wherewithal to sue, or Hertz offered the person compensation to settle the matter before the person filed a suit, and so on.", "Nice post Enterprise.", "Is it ok if I help 1 million people but murder 1. It's only 1 in a million.", "How is there no criminal accountability for wrongfully accusing someone of theft?\n\nAren't Hertz filing false police reports?\n\nIs it another case of \"if a company does it no individual is responsible\"?", "Whenever returning something rented, always get proof. Just park and leave the keys in the car? Just click a button on an app and you’re all set? Fuck that. I’m not trusting my life on a minimum wage worker following through on their end. Take the few extra minutes to talk to someone and get paperwork.", "40 fucking days? I was shocked by this video but my jaw actually dropped in real life when they said that. In 35 years of being alive that was the first time my jaw literally dropped. I would use my 1 phone call to tell someone I know to go dig up the reciepts, god damn, any lawyer on earth would take that case. The judge would dismiss that immediately right? Worst case first thing monday morning? But 40 days? Any remnants of faith in the justice system I had left just wisped away into the void leaving nothing but mute darkness and harrowing silence.", "I'd spend all night reading law books so I could do it for free. Fuck them", "So you argue that it is statistically insignificant for hundreds of people to be charged with felony grand theft auto? No big deal at all. That one lady spent 40 days in jail, that is a life altering event that can ruin you forever", "Some people think lawyers always need to be paid upfront. \n\nLike Lionel Hutz.", "You'd be shocked at how obedient police are for companies. Tow companies, rental cars, shop lifting, countless more companies that request police service as a \"Company\" rather than an \"Individual\" requesting servies get quick and mindless subservience. Id imagine the reason this isnt getting felony false police report is because its considered a company rather than them just looking at who signed the request from hertz. Seems that would be a good first step is making who ever signed the request to be held liable, would quickly create changes up stream to make sure they have it right.", "I'd keep that proof for a couple weeks but sounds like I need to keep everything indefinitely", "Laughs nervously from a Hertz car...", "Thats true, wonder how many more cases where the cops showed up looked at receipts and just let the people go.", "Lawyer can’t do much if you don’t get a court date. Covid delayed a ton of court dates in 2020.", "No, money down!", "I wish the news story would have shown receipts indicating when the rental started and when it ended proving the car was not overdue or was returned on time. This would prove without a doubt that Hertz was messing up. But they did not even touch on any proof for the story. I don't doubt that Hertz has messed up and reported cars stolen that were not, but how many times was the renters at fault?", "Never renting from Hertz ever!", "Works on contingency?", "Rightfully so. This is a constitutional violation. The constitution says we have the right to a fair and sorest trial. 50 days is far from that.", "No, I am saying that by their claim of millions of rentals over the past 13-14 years, the number of mis-reported stolen vehicles is only 300. That seems pretty low to me to be considered a widespread problem.", "In the United States anyway lawyers are not allowed to work on contingency in criminal cases. But there are many ways to get a lawyer in a criminal case even if you are strapped for cash, not least through court appointment.\n\nEdit to add citation: ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 1.5(d)(2) [https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional\\_responsibility/publications/model\\_rules\\_of\\_professional\\_conduct/rule\\_1\\_5\\_fees/](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_1_5_fees/)\n\nMost states adopt these rules with some modifications.", "At one point in the video they do show some receipts. I paused the video and it shows late return fees and extra days in the rental charges, but it does confirm the car was returned in April. They came to arrest her for a stolen car in August after that. That doesn't really make sense, no? Also, they did show on screen the documents of the cases dismissed. I'm unsure why they were dismissed or not charged though. Some of the other examples they had were a bit more questionable like the banker and the guy who supposedly never rented a Hertz car.", "You are an individual, not tens of thousands of rental locations employed by tens of thousands of different individuals spread out across the entire nation. Going off of what you said, a proper analogy would be, \"Is it ok if I feed 1 million people but call the cops on 1 for stealing food from me? It's only 1 in a million\"", "Well one receipt was shown, returned in April but reported stolen in August. Another person indicating they never even rented from Hertz, so how would they even have a receipt.\n\nStuff like this happens way too much and consumers just seem to be a statistic with almost no recourse. One year, my insurance company reported my coverage canceled and in turn, my license was suspended. I didn’t discover this until 4 months later, after getting pulled over and told by the officer. Luckily the officer was understanding and the insurance company admitted their mistake and had my DL reinstated, but things certainly could’ve gone down much differently.", "Always get receipts for everything. Fuck Hertz.", "Keeping better records is never a bad idea. Especially if you have a physical copy", "Yes and no \n\n\nA judge would absolutely rule for the charges to be dismissed immediately - but it might not be 'immediate' when the matter is brought to their attention (because at any given time there are a ton of pending cases to be sorted out). \n\n\nHonestly, the best thing to do first in this scenario would be to \n1) Have a family member bring a print out of your rental agreement (+ electronic copy on the phone) and go directly to the station in question to try and explain. Failing that, go directly to Herz and force them to rescind the stolen claim under threat of a lawsuit. (I'd be suing either way - but at least make clear that any additional damages will exacerbate the suit) \n\n\n2) In most cases, step 1 is going to solve the situation within a day or two at most. But failing that hire a lawyer. They will almost certainly get you out quick. \n\n\nI don't at all want to sound like I'm blaming the victims here for not doing that - but if you're spending 40 days in jail you probably didn't have a good plan of action for getting out (not that that's their fault) - OR everyone in question that should be able to help you sucked.", "Hey, dont type and drive!", "Yes is that still ok? I don't think it is.", "You don’t just get one phone call btw. Depending on where you are it might be 10+ calls", "I mean part of the reason here is reputation and makes some degree of sense. \n\n\nIf someone you don't know offers you a good deal on a loan - you probably won't trust them. If you know they work for Bank of America or something - you'll atleast believe its real. \n\n\nMore to that - with companies you're tied to assets that can be seized if you're sued - so the element of trust benefits from having a direct stake you will lose if you submit a fraudulent report. \n\n\nWhatever is going on here is certainly not a top-down conspiracy from Herz because whatever profits they'd make are certainly a drop in the bucket compared to the losses from negative PR and potential lawsuits. \n\n\n Its possible it was some regional level idiot with a harebrained scheme to embezzle money somehow - or (more likely imo) a catastrophic failure in their reporting system. Then again, I genuinely can't understand how this big of a fuckup would happen in a system like that so i don't want to claim anything with certainty.", "I mean if those people are lying and were not in legal possession of the car they are opening themselves up to MASSIVE libel lawsuits from Herz (a major news story about a major brand imprisoning customers? Major loss in damages you're now liable for) \n\n\nIf that is the case, I'm sure we would find that out - but it seems highly unlikely. I have no issue trusting their word unless Herz issues a statement disputing the claims (in which case I'd just want to see proof)", "Corporations are white people my friend", "Imagine getting guns drawn on you for a company error... these people could've been killed.", "Fuck Enterprise, too. They stranded me with their broken down vehicle for 3 straight days because corporate couldn't keep a single person on the clock to answer their phone over a weekend.", "It was a joke. I only used Turo these days. The Uber of car rental.\n\nFixed auto correct", "How would a jury trial be different from a regular trial? Would a jury make Hertz/police payout a bigger settlement?", "This is one of the most tone deaf comments I have ever read in my life ... lmao\n\nEdit: Sorry. This was not the comment I thought I was replying too. Lol", ">Turbo\n\n\\Turo", "40 days when your child is only 2 months old? That child had to switch to formula and the mother stopped producing milk(unless she manually expressed multiple times a day the entire time).", "Do you want to offer an actual critique?", "I guess you mean a bench trial vs a jury trial. Well if it was a bench trial then you may get a judge that is sympathetic to hertz. Less likely to have a whole jury that way.", "You don’t read much.", "That really Hertz.", "The last few times I've dropped a car off at the airport (usually between 5 or 6am) there was no one there to talk to. no one hands out reciepts anymore. it just goes right to your email.", "This was not the comment I thought I was replying too. Lmao. My bad.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db4AoNVplAQ", "This is the worst thing I've ever seen", "Happened to my brother. They literally forgot to check the car in (the computer was \"down\" when he dropped it off) then proceeded to \"lose it\" in their own lot and reported it stolen. Even after they found it was their own mistake they charged my brother the max amount in the rental agreement ($2500?) and banned him. The police questioned him but did not arrest him.", "You’re obviously unaware of the utter lack of resources you actually have in jail", "I used to keep seven years. Now I do fifteen. Just cardboard bankers boxes with date ranges.", "Lol its all good", "Holy crap this happened to a good friend in 1987 or so with Enterprise. That’s some sticky corporate policy.", "Yeah the one phone call thing is a myth. You have a constitutional right to talk to a lawyer or even have one present, so as many phone calls as it takes, you have a right to. It’s not like you get one call and they don’t answer and you’re constitutional rights are stripped and you spend the rest of your life in jail. Too bad they were at lunch.", "It also might be no call at all.", "What?", "I sat in jail for 4 months awaiting trial for a fuckin misdemeanor, the right to a speedy trial is dead", "You gotta be kidding", "Lawyers do a lot of work and communication with the court outside of actually being in court.", "Remember, only twats use Twitter.", "There is. I work for a large rental car company and wrongful arrest falls under our “unlimited liability” clause.", "Bro I thought that Hertz was buying stolen cars and renting them to people. But Hertz is the one saying their cars were stolen when they were out on a rental contract? How did the people even get arrested? The contract is in the glove box. \n\nCops are so fucking dumb man.", "Often negligence is enough.", "Steve Lehto talked about that the other day. The problem is how they handle 'stolen' vehicles.\n\nIf you rent a car and don't bring it back on time as expected, they will call you. If you then don't answer for whatever reasons they may declare the car stolen right away. But this is not what happened, so continue reading! Now you bring the car back, pay and everything is fine, right? Right! But no. Months later, I rent the same car, pass in front of a police officer, which check the plate and... \"STOLEN\". And I get arrested.\n\nHertz do not remove the stolen vehicle declaration, claiming it is the police job to close it, which they can't because they never was told that it was found back. And hertz refuse to do so, because hey it may still be stolen! even if it has been rented many more times so obiviously not stolen! . . .", "Mirror?", "Welcome to the criminal justice system. Unless you're well versed in it, you're screwed. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nThink the police are your friends? You're screwed. In altercations where victims refuse to press charges, others can and will find ways to get the victims charged in some way. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nPlace a \"bone\" in front of a detective and they'll bite at it.", "I would be curious to know the details of these arrests and if there is a commonality? Did none of them have paperwork proving their rental, was it all in the same state, did they all fail to answer Hertz's calls/ emails, did they all have the vehicles for more than a month, did all of them have an insurance company rent on their behalf, etc.", "From [this](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hertz-customers-allege-false-arrests-lawsuit/) article:\n\nAs to pulling back police reports once payment is made or the vehicle is returned, Hertz told The Philadelphia Inquirer last year that the reports were valid when they were filed and that \"it's up to law enforcement to decide what to do with the case.\"\n\nHertz's position is that they file a report for a stolen car and the police are supposed to somehow know if the car was returned because Hertz doesn't tell them if it is returned.\n\nIf someone gets arrested because of this, whatever, that's on the police who were never told the vehicle was returned.", "You have a right to a reasonable number of phone calls - and have grounds to sue if you are not able to excercise this right within 3 hours of booking.", "Because the bar for a criminal conviction is pretty high and the process is slow. Note that these people were wrongfully arrested, not wrongfully convicted. High bar. But they sat around a horrible amount of time before being released. Slow process.\n\nCivil cases are how a bureaucratic problem like this gets addressed and punished. In so doing if evidence of malice or criminal neglect comes up then a criminal case can be pursued, but if that was the main recourse then victims of these wrongful arrests would be worse off.", "Oh they definitely will be sued. And depending on how many people it could end up class action.", "police dont do any investigating, caproate just points them to a name and they arrest and let the justice system slowly process them, ruining their lives, cops dont give a damn because theyre not paid to", "I don't have to click the video to guess it's US", "Is anyone going to mention the cops coming out with guns drawn, aimed and fingers on the trigger during a circumstance where absolutely no threat whatsoever had been established? \n\nThose cops should have lost their jobs, and been charged with assault.\n\nEdit: Seriously, should I report my neighbor's kid stealing my car for a joyride if I knew the local constabulary will immediately treat it as an excuse to use Deadly Force? Who do you call when you want somebody arrested, but not necessarily executed on the spot? Is that a private service we can pay for? If we paid extra as citizens, can we get non-cowards willing to investigate non-violent crimes without threatening deadly force?", "The onus is on Hertz for destroying their customers. As a car renter this is a dangerous situation because police will perform armed arrest.", "No, money down!", "Given my experience working with a couple big corps, this could very easily come down to a bad staffing decision. I doubt anyone who works in the department that declares those vehicles as stolen actually properly assess every single case and unfortunately over time this can lead to decisions that have very negative consequences for individuals who should not be negatively impacted. Not at all to excuse this type of shit. But just something to keep in mind.", "I've done that too and I hate it because they always add a gas charge even though the tank is full.", "Not available in Canada.", "Let's try this as a Fermi problem. That means I'm making up numbers but just trying to be around the right order of magnitude so we can form a rough estimated conclusion.\n\nHertz has 100,000 cars rented out at a given time. \nAverage rental period of 1 week = 50 rentals per car per year. \nOver an 8 year period that's 40 million returns processed. \nThis video says over the same period there were 300 lawsuits. Let's say 1000 people were falsely accused.\n\nThat means 1-in-40,000 returns get fucked up. That feels high for a false arrest, but at the same time it's not the kind of odds that would dissuade me from renting. Odds of dying in a car crash are 1-in-10,000 per year, and I'm obviously risking that.\n\nAnother angle is considering how many of their cars actually are stolen. (I cheated and looked up the National Insurance Crime Bureau who says 30,000 rental cars stolen per year. Which is not shocking considering you can do that by simply not returning it.) \n\n8 years, 240,000 cars in the industry stolen. Let's say Hertz is 50,000 of that.\n\nSo if 1-in-50 of their stolen vehicle reports are wrong, that's unacceptably high. But at the same time I understand why an employee who sees in the database that the car wasn't returned doesn't immediately think \"Must be our fault.\"", "Spoilers : it's worse than you think.", "And that's where your mind went thinking about 40 days in jail...", ">Another person indicating they never even rented from Hertz, so how would they even have a receipt\n\nBetter question: How would Hertz have had their name to report?\n\nMy guess - and nothing more than that - would be that the car actually was stolen, by means of identity theft.", "Identity theft is not a joke, Jim! Millions of families suffer every year!", "In this hypothetical, could you sue for court costs as well? It seems crazy to me that someone can falsely accuse you of theft and cost you tens of thousands in lawyer fees only to prove your innocence and hopefully cover your damages.", "I think they deserved to be sued and they are a terrible company. I think this needs to be seen and heard by everyone. They are also should be fined for filing false reports and someone should face criminal charges. What an injustice.", "Then as an ex convict, please enlighten the rest of us with your experience.", "It’s not shocking at all. Police exist to protect capital", "No Hertz for me.", "If a jury heard this case it would be an absolute slam dunk. Who knows what kind of judge you could get.", "Whaaaat the fuck? I’ve never dealt with that rented a dozen cars this year. Hope you got at their ass for that.", "Just hope someone with your name doesn't forget to return a car a day late or something", "I think you're misinformed on what constitutes a speedy trial.", "Lol I’ve rented a ton of cars but I never knew the contract was in there", "Hard to do if there is no one there and you have to make a flight. This is the nightmare scenario of every traveller.", "So ~300 over 8 years = ~38 per year…\n\nHertz has ~425,000 cars…\n\naverage rate of rental car getting stolen or “theft by conversion” (not paying, not returned) at 1/60 for US.\n\nSo if hertz has 425,000 cars getting stolen at 1/60…that means they have ~7,000 cars a year getting “stolen” with 40 of those per year being an “error”… or .5% error rate…", "...and?\n\nBeing forced to give up breastfeeding is a huge deal for both mom and child and it's something that can not be fixed after the fact.", "I mean, they give you a contract but that's where I usually put it.", "Fuck Hertz.", "I can't believe there wasn't any mention of Hertz getting the pants sued off them. I mean, wtf. I would fucking OWN Hertz if this happened to me - or does that kind of justice just not happen anymore? I even think they used to call them \"Jackpot Juries\" because people would always rule against a big company.", "I mean, that's pretty legit. There is a lot passed over in a mother's breastmilk, including antibodies. Even the separation has consequences. \n\nBeyond that, I can't imagine 40 days in jail. Being \"innocent\"? I would lose my goddamn mind.", "Always get the rental agreement on paper. “We emailed it” isn’t good enough. Sometimes I don’t get the emails.\n\nTake a photo when you pick up and drop off of Exterior, and odometer and gas.", "The other myth is apparently the right to a speedy trial.", "That there is unlimited liability.", "How many times with corporate rentals do I have to go to the rental counter and demand the contract renewal, and how many times do they refuse and say “come back next week.”\n\nAlways get a contract on paper, and never let it lapse.\n\nThese instances on the video were NOT ones where the cars were overdue. The company fucked the duck and is trying to diffuse blame.", "No excuse.", "Hertz: \"Deploying agents to your location now.\"", "Those morons should have just asked for a rental contract and left when one was provided. That doesn’t excuse the moron rental companies from using cops to make up for their lack of diligence in tracking the whereabouts of these vehicles.", "I'm not sure we're making the same point. I want to live in a society where suspicion of non-violent property crimes in no way justifies a threat of immediate execution. This wasn't a homocide simply because the innocent, non-threatening, non-criminal citizen was more professional and courageous than the cops, and unlike the cops, he didn't panic. Had he moved his hands wrong, this would have been an execution. \n\nAnd there was no reason for that whatsoever. There was no threat. There was a report of a suspected non-violent property crime. This is not acceptable behavior in any way. He should sue.", "Or a fair trial", "True story. When I was fifteen police knocked on my parents’ door. To arrest me. For bouncing checks for medical care in a county I’d even stepped foot in. (Plus I was 15. My mom paid for that). \n\nThat’s a night where privilege played in my favor. Turns out the person swearing out the warrant just basically looked for anyone named Harriet Jones.", "Never do business with Hertz. The are awful for multiple reasons. Heard lots of horror stories.", "Once a convict, always a convict.", "Simmer down lol, no need to get upset - we can have a friendly exchange. \n\n\n1) Nope, I've never been arrested - but I have worked directly on judicial policy reform and have a solid understanding of the issues within the justice system. \n\n\nThe thing is - getting arrested doesn't tell you much about the judicial system as a whole. It tells you about how things work in a specific precinct at a specific time. Its anecdotal evidence - which while not entirely useless, simply isn't a good basis for evaluating a broad and complex institution. \n\n\n2) If you were arrested and not provided with the opportunity to make a phone call (hell, even if you were restricted to one) - your rights were violated. Does that happen? Of course. Whether you realized it at the time, that does give you grounds to sue whatever agency violated those rights. \n\n\n3) Whether its the station, Herz, or a small business - dealing with people means you might encounter anything on the spectrum of human behavior. Its possible that the cops and the people at Herz won't give a shit - as I alluded to in my earlier comment. \n\n\nHowever, there are 2 powerful motivations here - the altruistic motivation of not wanting to put a clearly innocent person in jail, and the selfish motivation of not wanting to face personal consequences for doing so. If Herz calls the precinct and explains that a vehicle was improperly reported stolen - they are almost certainly going to release said person - for either reason. Same is likely going to happen if you show up to the precinct with proof that the car was legally rented. \nIts not guaranteed, but its the most likely outcome", "Yes you could absolutely sue for court costs (its never a guarantee that they would be awarded, but its likely given the situation). \n\n\nIn a case like this though, you could almost certainly find a lawyer to take the case for a percentage of the awarded amount and a large corporation like Herz is probably going to want to settle anyways (given the PR nightmare that would come with fighting the case)", "For real. I have only been arrested a single time with my case dropped about three months later. \n\nI’m a middle class white dude that had to spend 22 hours in jail after paying my cash bail immediately at booking. They gave me some BS about running my prints in a national database and they couldn’t release me until that cleared. \n\nI almost lost my job because I had apparently slept through my first opportunity to make a call and it was the weekend. \n\nThey literally take all of your resources.\n\nWhat could be as simple of a solution as a thirty second google search and follow up call can take days or weeks or months to make happen when you can’t reach the outside. \n\nThere are literally thousands of people incarcerated right now in our country under just as dubious of circumstances and they’re all neutered in the system unable to do anything about it.", ">And that's where your mind went thinking about 40 days in jail...\n\nLOL @ you implying that breastfeeding is something sexual or perverse.", "Did your brother have to pay that $2500?", "wow. I've never gotten a gas charge. I always overfill just a bit at whatever gas station is close to the airport.", "You have the right, but you can also wave it just like you have a right to an attorney and the right to remain silent. You have to actively enact your right. If you just sit around not doing anything about it then no one is denying you your right.", "Happened twice in Omaha. Both times I had to return the car unattended because I dropped it off at 5 AM.", "In a lot of States the hearings were postponed if they weren’t regarding matters that were urgent (do not contact orders, child protection matters, ect). So if she were jailed spring/ early summer of 2020, then no her attorney may not have been able to do anything. The Judge does not schedule hearings. Court administrators do. For example, in Minnesota, the State Judicial Branch had orders on what could be reviewed. So if you filed anything with the court that wasn’t demonstrating a danger to someone, it wasn’t going to be heard. No matter how unfair that seemed.", "Can I ask where you live that an insurance company has the right to suspend or reinstate your license to drive?", "Why are they drawing guns in this situation anyway?", "I found the ERAC person haha", "Shhhh. Only one type of person uses ERAC, an ERAC person.", "Well, sure as shit don’t reach in the glove box for your rental paperwork. Then they might sue you for bullet hole damage and late fees once you get out of the hospital and jail.", "I hear on the local police scanner once, they run the plate on a rental car and it was reported stolen. But local police see the rental papers, they called the rental company and they determined to be a clerical error and let them go like they know it happens before.", "Always upvote the folks who put in the work to crunch the numbers. Thank you!", "This reply is baffling. Like you don't realize the most important thing in that case WAS that the mother was taken from her newborn, and that a private company did it.", "[\"This is a constitutional violation.\"](https://c.tenor.com/wIxFiobxxbIAAAAd/john-jonah-jameson-lol.gif)", "I would never rest till I had revenge..", "I hear on the local scanner once, they pulled over a rental car and came back stolen, The person has all the paperwork and email that the car is rented. Dispatch called the rental company and confirmed the person by that name rented that car that day. Determined it was a clerical error and let the people go. \n\nThe car gets lost in the inventory system, probably gets reported stolen by their insurance department. Car is found, just added back to inventory and insurance department never hears about the car they reported stolen has been found.", "Never using Hertz. All I heard are terrible things.", "And of course the Blackman is getting charged with a felony", "TIL to be in a car, you must be the driver and it just be in motion.", "“Let’s go!”", "I think I’d have to dedicate the rest of my life making sure none of those cops ever worked again. Period.they’re obviously not responsible enough to be left on their own for any reason. Never mind getting paid to fuck up someone’s business.", "I had an odd situation a few years back with Hertz. I travel for work a lot and had rented an SUV one week. No problems, returned it as usual, went home, all good.\n\nThe next week I was in town I went to rent a car and the guys told me I couldn't have one because the police needed to question me about a string of B&Es that we're done using that car on the weekend. I was very confused since I hadn't had the car on the weekend, but fine. So the cops call me later that day and are questioning me hard, not even hearing my side of things but just plainly assuming I did it and telling me to come to the local precinct. \n\nI explained countless times I wouldn't be coming down and that I could send them the receipts and rental agreements and tons of other proof that not only did I return the car on the Thursday, but I had flown home that same night and flew in again this morning. It took me way too long to have them basically hang up on me like assholes. Never heard about it again.\n\nI confronted the people at Hertz about it too. Why didn't they provide the evidence that I had returned the car? Who checked it out after me? Why weren't they being questioned? Why didn't they do any of that but we're more than willing to give the police my license details and other personal information? They didn't even give me an apology, just basically said \"oh well\" and then tried to upsell me to a sports car. \n\nNever went back, and I never will.", "Stealing a vehicle is a felony, Police SOP usually calls for lethal coverage during any felony stop.", "It is USA logic won't aply.", "Amen to that. I got scammed by their staff. Never again.", "Police like to shoot things.", "Sounds like insurance fraud.", "He disputed it on his credit card successfully from what I recall.", "You'd think the local police would be telling Hertz to go fuck themselves, and that they wouldn't be expending resources looking for their \"stolen\" cars if they didn't update them on the status of their cars.", "LOL look at those incompetent pigs pointing guns at innocent, non threatening people.", "I read \"Uber\" as \"Tesla\" and was trying to figure out what the fuck that even meant.", "You're getting downvoted but it's the reality. America is the most armed country in the world. Most carjackers have guns. I don't know if I can really blame the police for doing it, even as a staunch critic. \n\nI'd put the blame on hertz for so being so willingly negligent.", "I don't know why people are downvoting you. It's totally true. The police do not have a constitutional obligation to protect you. So, if their purpose is not to protect citizens from harm what is it then?", "Yup! Always take videos when picking up and returning! Sixt tried to blame me for “damage” and fill out an accident form. Showed them all proof and they conveniently backed off. I can only imagine how many people get fucked without proof and just pay up…fuck them for trying to pin things on customers", "Circular logic is circular. A felon wouldn't be a felon until they're convicted.", "People have been focusing so much on the first and second amendments that people don't realize that amendments like the sixth have been dead for over 20 years now. There's so much bloat in the judicial system that no lawyer is going to spend time going through the appeals process all the way up to the supreme court without a seriously prohibitive amount of money, or so much media coverage that it ends up worth it for them in the long run.", "> Is it another case of \"if a company does it no individual is responsible\"?\n\nYes.", "But hey, they got Tom Brady to do commercials for them.", "I'd call Hertz, ask who filed the report, then call the police and file a report about that person filing a false police report. If they wouldn't tell me I'd list whatever manager was at the branch.", "Hertz needs to hurt for this.", "fixed it?", "I’m not an ex-con, but I have been arrested, so allow me to tell you my experience. On being booked into county jail, I was given a code, I think it was a six digit number, but it could have been four—this was in 2002. That number had to be entered into the phone to make your call. I tried mine, it didn’t work. I was told sometimes it can take a few hours before the code is activated. So then we all got locked in our cells, and for the next several hours, I had no access to a phone. The next day, when they let us out of our cells for awhile into the common area, I tried again. Still didn’t work. On day 3, another prisoner let me use their code, and gave me the number to his bail bondsman. So I called him. Turned out in Oklahoma, you can’t bond yourself out, so I had to call someone I knew who could then call the bail bondsman. I didn’t know anyone’s number by memory, because hey everyone had a cell phone by then. Finally, in desperation, I call my boss at work. He called the bondsman and made the arrangements. Thankfully, I had the best boss in history, or I would have been S.O.L. And in jail for a lot longer than 4 days. I met people who had been in there for weeks. This was county jail, and all of these people were awaiting trial, not serving sentences. It’s way harder to get out of jail than it should be, unless you have money.", "Take pictures, or even video. Take contemporaneous notes (e.g. email to yourself or someone else).\n\nIt may not be perfect, but it's better than having nothing at all.", ">\tId imagine the reason this isnt getting felony false police report is because its considered a company rather than them just looking at who signed the request from hertz.\n\nYou’re just making stuff up when you clearly have little to no understanding of the law. \n\nFiling a false police report, in a criminal law context, means reporting something to the police that you know to be false. No one is accusing Hertz employees of doing this. These are mistakes. \n\nI’m not saying Hertz won’t or shouldn’t face any legal culpability for these issues, but it won’t and shouldn’t be in the form of criminal exposure to charges of filing a false report.\n\n/u/CILISI_SMITH, tagging you just so you have an explanation to your question.", "Maybe their staff had COVID, or something else. Things could happen.\n\nBut they should do two things from that:\n\n1. Learn from it. Add redundancy so they can't have that same failure again.\n1. Make amends to you. An apology. Money (even if it's credits for future rentals). And explain how're they're going to improve things.\n\nYou may still decide to never use them again, and you'd be justified in doing so. But they need to step up their customer service response to you regardless.", "because this is america and theyre poorly trained hammers and everything is a nail.", "Cops have tiny dicks.", "not everyone can function logically, we got people out there riding planes...", "Some car thieves are dangerous felons. Cops don't know this was because Hertz is a lazy and stupid company.", "> I would fucking OWN Hertz if this happened to me\n\nA lot of people believe this, but the law almost always only allows for you to collect on actual damages. In the case of something like getting put in jail for 40 days, you could probably sue for lost wages, or perhaps some kind of actual damages if you lost your job as the result of said 'clerical error,' but it isn't likely that Hertz would be given any punitive damages even if a class action were won against them. Or at least, it isn't likely that said punitive damages would be enough to cause any real damage to them.\n\nThey know this. And I'm sure it's factored into the cost of doing business.", "They always do that to me. I get charged $18 every time. I take pics of my refilling receipt and gas gauge and I send it to them and they waive it. Every Single Time. \n\nI guess the game they play is most people won't call.", "Lol. Not a single word of this is true in the US. I am a lawyer.", "I’ll bet 1 paycheck there’s an inside scheme among hertz employees to disappear cars and have it blame on the renter.", "And if you exercise it, the judge has the right to take your public defender into the hall and kick his ass.\n\nOr maybe not, I think charges are pending.", "You absolutely have no right to a phone call at all.", "\"Speedy\" is relative. If you are incarcerated in my state, the prosecution has 9 months to get you to trial. It's 12 months if you are out on bond. My state is pretty typical on this issue, BTW.\n\nThe 35 days was likely the delay to find time on a judge's docket to hear about the rental, and then dismiss it.", "Nope. There's no \"you get a phone call\" right in many states, and no Federal law granting that right.\n\nThe movie and TV bit where everyone must be given a phone call is fantasy.\n\nThere should be a right to phone calls, but in many places, you don't.", "The justice system is slow as shit. Had a Stepdad spend about the same amount of time in jail for, \"Stealing a generator\". He was lives 2 hours away from where this crime took place, and it was finally thrown out when they actually looked at him and realized he could barely walk with a cane let alone pick up a 80 pound generator and take off running with it as the witness described. Turns out the guy that did it had his truck he sold years ago. That and that the witness said he had long hair.", "I mean, I didn't mean it literally, but I would think you could take them deep enough they would settle and for a large amount under the guise of \"pain and suffering,\" which is difficult to put a number on, but seems to have pretty big payouts.", "> I would think you could take them deep enough they would settle and for a large amount\n\nI'd like to believe this too, but cynicism and experience tells me that while it might have a personal impact on your life, no number of these kinds of lawsuits would prevent companies from just writing these things off as rounding errors.\n\nSo yes, while a person whose rights have been violated could be \"made whole\" insofar as the law could actually do so, it still wouldn't have any effect on actually preventing shit like this from happening in the future.", "Like the top comment on this thread chain.", "A few years back I had a loaner from Enterprise Rentals. I got pulled over because the plate was not registered to anyone. The VIN was listed under an insurance company several states away and my rental agreement from Enterprise had no actual specifics as to the vehicle I was given. Thankfully the cops figured I had enough evidence on my side to let it slide until I could get ahold of Enterprise. I definitely thought I was going to jail for legally driving a car given to me by a well known company.", "This company makes my head hertz", "Not that I agree with their actions, but there's often a strong connection between vehicle theft and violent crime.", "Quota fab for media outletage.", "Do these even qualify as stolen? Shouldn't this be a civil matter and Hertz should repossess the cars and sue?", "Not Turo.", "VIN number as well.", "There are people in Seattle that actually steal cars and don’t see a single day in jail. This is fucking infuriating. \n\nNot just hertz fucking up, but why didn’t a simple “it must be a mistake, here’s my rental agreement, verify it with hertz” work with the police and prosecutors?? \n\nWTF", "I think people are getting a lot from movies confused because if you are in a holding cell there is usually a phone on the wall, and once you are in the blocks you can pay to use a phone. If you are being interrogated for something then you sit in an office room and are at the mercy of the police/guards to let you call someone. \n\nI only stayed in a county jail one time for a night and there was a phone in our holding cell.", "> Turns out the person swearing out the warrant just basically looked for anyone named Harriet Jones.\n\nThis is why she always holds her ID up for people to see, even when she was Prime Minister.", "> The judge would dismiss that immediately right? Worst case first thing monday morning?\n\nNope. You would have to wait, in jail, till your hearing date. Whenever that is.", "Taking evidence to the police station does you no good. They received a warrant and executed an arrest. The police are not a judge. You will have to wait till you can present evidence to a judge to get cleared.", "This was in Florida. You can’t have a registered license plate without insurance coverage or the state will suspend your license. The insurance company simply reports to the state when coverage lapses.", "The cars are presumed stolen. The type of scum who steals a car is likely to be armed and have poor judgment.", "The probability of experiencing a random violent attacks is so low, it’s not even a thought for most civilians. \n\nPolicy is in place for officer protection from a significantly higher chance of a violent encounter, specifically a suspected carjacker. \n\nThe real injustice here is how long it took to be cleared.", "Hertz is run by morons. We rented a car from them not too long ago and remarked when we got in the car that someone must have smoked weed in the car not too long ago as it smelt. Come to find out after about a week of driving the vehicle there was a fuckin fat gram of bud under the passenger seat. \n\nWe sent them a strongly worded email and never even got a response. I hate to imagine what all would have gone down if we got pulled over in the state we were in with that in the car. This of course is all while the pandemic is going on and the car was \"sealed\" after it had been \"thoroughly cleaned\".", "These people aren't getting arrested after being pulled over and being obnoxious. They are getting pulled over because the car is reported stolen. This is not an isolated incident and is not a new issue. Hertz has been doing this for [years](https://viewfromthewing.com/hertz-glitch-is-falsely-reporting-cars-stolen-landing-renters-in-jail/)", "So you can't have a license without owning a car? I live in Texas where that seems strange to me.", "Pulling a gun on someone over a company claim on a thing = capitalism run amok.", "Studies generally show that breast feeding is better for children than formula. It improves health outcomes, immunity, IQ, etc. It is absolutely a huge deal, it's not about having a breast fixation, it's the realization that Hertz impacted the entire future of a 2 month old baby.", "Yes, but only because Turo renters only have a few cars usually and aren’t going to have the big bureaucratic mess that allows this to happen with other rental companies. The biggest issue with these situations is the police response. If they would just talk instead of drawing their guns they could figure out the situation every time.", "Fuck Hertz. I hope they go bankrupt over this. How dare they do this to customers. They have way too much time on their hands and need to lose billions in lawsuits.", "OJ Simpson used to do their commercials too.", "Only on reddit do you get spam downvoted for stating the ACTUAL policy. Stolen vehicles are high risk stops and 99% of departments require multiple officers and guns drawn. Countless stolen vehicle stops lead to shootings and car chases, hence the policy.", "Once a car is sufficiently overdue on return Hertz assumes it's not coming back and reports it stolen.\n\nThe problem is that sometimes those cars do come back. Adding to the issue is that (allegedly) if cars aren't properly managed in their system, for example a franchisee not properly logging the rent/return in the computer, cars can get flagged as missing and reported accidentally.\n\nThen the next person to rent it is out driving in a car which is still, technically, reported as stolen.\n\nHertz's stance is that these issues come up very rarely and law enforcement should check the status of the rental before taking action. Law enforcement's stance is that cars don't usually get un-stolen, so they're going to continue to arrest first and ask questions eventually.", "A woman was in jail for over a month over this. The contract is right there. She rented the car. What are you smoking??", "That's why it's always a good idea to keep the rental agreement in the vehicle with you or on your person. Instant proof you're contractually allowed to be driving it because you have paid to rent it. Hell, even when I get a loaner from a dealership when my vehicle is in the shop, I keep it on the passenger seat for quick access to be prepared for anything", "Yes you can have a license… you can’t have a registered license plate, without insurance on the registered vehicle.", "Careful now, that kind of sensibility isn’t welcome here apparently.", "Yet, I’ve read many times that a person let their ex use their car, they refuse to return it.\n\nCops say “iT’s A cIvIL mAtTeR.”", "Came here to say exactly that", "Normal during felony arrests.", "Nah this was enterprise truck rental, and this was a nationwide policy to have no offices staffed or any corporate contact available between 5pm Friday and 8am Monday. I was stuck with my material in the back of their broken down truck (transmission failure) until they could open and get a replacement to me Monday at 3pm. \n\nThey did pay for my 3-night hotel stay, meal receipts and Lyft rides for the time I was stranded (couldn't abandon the material I was hauling or even move it by hand) and didn't charge me for the rental, so yeah, they knew they fucked up.\n\nJust had to be a top-down cost cutting measure to have every one of their probably hundreds of offices nationwide (Atlanta alone has 7 locations) closed outside of banker's hours.", "So what I'm wondering is, without a phone call, how do they expect to honor the right you DO have to get a fucking lawyer? Are you supposed to communicate telepathically with one?\n\nI would have assumed a right to a phone call would be 100% necessary as an extension of having a right to a lawyer.", "Uh-oh. I see how this is going to end. I hope Gisele doesn't have any friends that work in the restaurant industry....", "Yes i know, Reddit is overrun with users who lack critical thinking.", "What are you trying to say here?", "You do have the right to a lawyer and should exercise this right. “I’m not saying anything until I consult a lawyer”.", "Yup. Hertz is trash", "They’re being sued.\n\nhttps://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/rental-car-nightmare-customers-suing-hertz-after-false-report/amp/", "Criminal defense lawyer here. /u/DeltaSandwich is correct. It's labeled a high-risk \"felony stop\" when a vehicle comes back stolen. Police in most states will pull over the vehicle by coming in behind the reportedly stolen car, turning on their lights, flashing a spotlight on the driver, and drawing their guns. The cops will each emerge from their squad cars with guns and flashlights in hand, and they will stand behind their doors. They then use a loudspeaker and order the driver to toss the keys out of the driver's window. They then have the driver open the driver door, stand out of the car, and walk backwards towards the cops with their hands on their head before laying prostrate on the ground, where they will then be handcuffed and taken away. They will do this to every single occupant in the car, one at a time, until it is empty.\n\nIt's absolutely terrifying, especially if you're innocent. But /u/Dark1000 asked what's going on, and that's the answer. The US Supreme Court has authorized this practice because of the purported blanket risk that car thieves may have weapons.", "I remember giving them an earful when I got ticketed for expired tabs. I’d lawyer up on this for sure.", "there’s a class action now and thanks to these reports by CBS the number is growing.", "It's standard procedure for a felony stop. A criminal committing a felony knows getting caught means serious consequences, unlike a misdemeanor, so he has more motivation to prevent his arrest by violent means. Unfortunately, these people are innocent but cops can't know that.", "So this happened to us and it was truly terrifying. It’s happening to people regardless of race, gender, socio economic status. Simply renting from Hertz puts you at risk. our story [CBS Hertz Investigation part 1 ](https://twitter.com/cbsmornings/status/1456258931190222853?s=21) \n\nif you think this is outrageous, please sign and share the petition to hold Hertz accountable! [Hertz False Arrests Petition ](https://www.change.org/p/hertz-rent-a-car-hold-hertz-responsible-for-throwing-paying-customers-in-jail)", "But when you lose your job, your house, and your ability to secure adequate future occupations, there’s a lot of money that a company will hand out to settle out of court.", "This happened to another person who was in jail for 3 months. Check out other victims on the [Truth Hertz](www.truthhertz.net) website. www.truthhertz.net", "I used to work for Hertz. It was a company run by buffoons who hired buffoons.", "I'm not disputing any of that. Well... it's a lot to YOU. But it's not a lot to the company.\n\nMy whole point is that this fantasy of \"making that evil company PAY\" is just that, a fantasy. We all wish we could bring down BigEvilCorp and make them hurt, but it's just a depressing fact of our world that not only do they get away with stuff like this because they know they can and nobody will truly be able to make it painful to them, they literally write this into their budgets as the cost of doing business.\n\nIf your point is to get a payday, then sure, milk 'em for all you can. But if your intention is to hit them where it hurts, it just isn't going to happen.", "He should contact the legal team at truthhertz.net!", "Without question jury trials result in larger awards for things like this compared to judicial decisions.", "This happened to us and that’s what we are hoping for. I’d imagine everyone on a jury had rented a car or knows someone who’s rented a car at least once in their lives. Any one of those people could imagine how terrifying it would be to be arrested at gunpoint for an egregious error on due to poor inventory management systems and corporate policies. 🤞🏾", "the second situation is what happened to us. we were rented a car that Hertz had reported stolen in September. Our rental agreement started in October….", "Did she have a lawyer? Because what kind of shitty lawyer can't get this immediately dismissed.", "some local police departments have stopped taking stolen car reports from them because of this. Here in Houston our Harris County attorney is considering legal action against Hertz (assumption) for misuse of city resources and fraudulent reports.", "but there are at least 300 cases of this happening with Hertz going back to 2008. And this puts people’s lives in danger.", "They assume GTA suspects are armed and dangerous. That’s what they told my boyfriend when this happened to him.", "\"Clearly you have no understanding of the law\". Someone is signing the go ahead for these arrest warrants for stolen property, theyre protected under the guise of a company name. If they did their job and had proper record keeping these \"mistakes\" that are costing innocent people money, time in jail, and possible job loss wouldnt occur. Or if police actually required proper evidence of a stolen property. Ignorance doesnt excuse negligence, there are many case studies that back that.", "I’m not debating whether or not Hertz is culpable. I’m just explaining why they’re not committing a specific crime.", "This is what I do for every rental company I use out there.\n\nI record and or snap the image of the clerk while their filing and checking me in. Just 30 seconds and or a image of the office and name. \n\nOnce that is done, they take me to my vehicle, I start recording, dents recorded, fuel I was sent out with, noted record, mileage from when I started, recorded or taken a picture of. \n\nWhen I’m done with the car and returning it. I park it and record it and snap more pictures of the fuel and mileage and do. A walk around with car and area of drop off. I even record myself dropping off the keys even if it’s late night drop off. \n\nI learned from one mistake and let them take my money. Never again!!", "And im clearly stating that they should and \"could\" be in direct retaliation of the law if they looked past the company name and looked towards the person that said \"ok this person deserves punishment\". Anything less is complete dereliction of the law.\n\nThere is a singular person at hertz at some level, or any company dealing in the same spectrum that officially \"OKs\" these reports to police, if its automated that alone is the problem in both that police recognize it, and that a company can issue it.\n\nIf that person was held culpable to their crimes then it would single handedly solve this problem.", "Happy arrest on your cake day!", "r/latestagecapitalism", "Thanks from the back of a cop car 😊", "I guess emotional harm isn’t considered actual damages.", "Overrun with people with Asperger's. And a very common defining feature of aspergers is a difficulty seeing a situation from the perspective of someone with different context from yourself. While most people have a perfectly valid reason to hate American police, putting themselves into the mental situation of \"I just pulled over a car that was reported stolen, with unknown occupants, statistically violent criminals\" is just too hard by the looks of the votes around here.", "So wait ... why do police need to point guns at people for theft?", "The problem isn't Hertz. The problem is the police and the prosecutors office so willing to arrest people. The presumption should be one of innocence. \n\nIt should not be this insanely easy to arrest people. It is a massive waste or taxpayers money and police time and effort. \n\nThere is a minimum level of evidence that a crime has been committed. Simply reporting a crime is not evidence of a crime. \n\nA 5 minute brain storm by the arresting officers should have been enough to figure out that something was wrong with these reports.", "There are people who have spent years at Riker’s Island awaiting trial", "I worked at Hertz for a few years out of college. It wasn't common but we did have to report a few cars stolen while I was there. \n\nEvery case we had tried to call the person and emailed them several times over the course of several week to months. I'm sure not all Hertz tried as hard as we did but I'm pretty suspicious of this post. It never claims the rentals were returned properly. \n\nIf you take a rental car, ghost the company, and never return it the car is going to be reported stolen...\n\nThat being said Hertz is an absolute garbage company that no one should ever use. \n\n\nBut then again people don't rent a car because they want too :/ all rental companies are shit", "Holy shit this actually happened to my dad's friend", "You go to your arraignment and apply for a court appointed attorney. That or you hope that someone who knows you were arrested manages to relay a message to your family or someone else who cares. Otherwise, there you sit for who knows how long.", "Ianal at all even remotely but it's likely they'll have that arrest for grand theft on record for upcoming background checks. Idunno if you could argue that but seriously that could fuck you out of future house and job ez.\n\nBut yeah its not like they'd ever even make a solid dent, let alone OWN the company.", "We don't know that anyone hasn't been killed because of it. Let that one marinate.", "I've rented from Hertz before and I'm not at all surprised by this. They are just awful. \n\nEnterprise is expensive, but they sure seem less likely to do you dirty. Never had an issue with them.", "Maybe they are in violation of some law. Just not this specific law. I’m not stating an opinion, here.", "Have the receipt emailed, and agreement, then if you can print out. If anything, you should be able to access your email from your phone and show you legitimately rented the vehicle.", "I think the employees causing the errors should be charged too.", "You sir need a better personal injury attorney. I know of several that I could refer you to should you wind up in a similar situation.", "the summary is that this is an updated story from a month ago, about Hertz reporting their cars stolen, when they're still being leased or rented. sometimes long after the car was returned, and 1 case when the person accused didn't even rent a car from them. some people are arrested, 1 spent as long as 40 days in jail. some cases seemed to be clerical errors, like data entry at pickup, or actual stolen cars that were returned, but the status was not updated.\n\none lawyer who sued Hertz in 2019 for the same problem asked Hertz if they had a list of similar lawsuits. he said Hertz sent him a list of 300 of them over a period of 8 years, 2008-2016. Hertz previously released a statement saying the number of stolen vehicle claims sent to the police is very small compared to the millions of rentals they process each year. and that nearly all of the stolen vehicle claims are valid.", "i wonder if other car rental companies have this problem as well?", "Similar thing happened to me with a one-way overnight car. Their instructions were to park the car in front of the drop off office (tiny satellite location) and put the keys in the door tray. A week later I notice an enormous charge on my card, like $3000. I call them and they said that since I never returned it they just kept charging me daily. I explained that it was literally sitting right outside their front door...in the car return spot...bright red crossover they'd been walking around for a week.\n\nTook several hours of phone calls with corporate to get that charge removed. Luckily no police were involved or anything.", "Well… I’ll never rent a Hertz for the rest of my life.", "Yes, but also they take longer and can generate more news coverage.", "I'd wager most people don't \"have a lawyer\". If I got arrested right this minute I'd have no idea who to call.", "Hey, don’t type and drive!", "You get assigned a lawyer if you don't have one. Stereotypically not a good one...", "Don't worry, they already beat me for it.", "It is wild nobody will face any repercussions for this", "So what happened? Very confused police officer? or in jail you went?", "Not a lawyer, but I'm guessing unless you can prove malice or a pattern of negligence you're not going to get much. Sounds like these lawyers are looking at the pattern.", "\"Corporations are people!\"\n\n\"But not like that!\"", "Pretty much. I do this stuff for a living and yeah 999/1000 Reddit comments having to do with “sUe” or “LaWyER” have no basis in reality. People think they know how things work cause they’ve watched a movie. \n\nLiterally my response in my head to most Reddit comments having to do with words such as legal, sue, attorney, insurance etc, is “yeah that’s not how that works.”\n\nIt’s mansplaining basically. Everyone thinks they’re a sudden expert on everything cause they’ve seen a movie or commercial or read a few Reddit posts.", "A couple of the people in the video didn't have a choice. Their company and insurance rented it.", "What could hurt them (and who knows if it will happen) would be news like this spreading enough where they lose customers. One was a woman that had it rented by an insurance company. If that insurance company switches rental companies, that's a big deal for Hertz. Now this is probably rare enough and won't generate enough buzz that enough switching happens but there is potential.", "They have an interesting interpretation of what \"valid\" means. Falsely reporting a crime, is a crime, and Hertz should be held liable for damages and public resources.", "What the fuck is wrong with you? Being prevented from feeding your child to the point where you are no longer able to provide milk for them in the future is very serious. I think you're the one with your mind in the gutter.", "They're right. The police should arrest whoever responsible for a false report. Police protecting businesses, as usual.", "> Once a car is sufficiently overdue on return Hertz assumes it's not coming back and reports it stolen.\n\nThat is so fucked up, given how police have to respond to stolen car calls. They should have repo sent instead of cops but I guess that's too complicated for a billion dollar company...", "Saw that video yesterday, classic.", "Hertz gave me a car for over 90 days one time. I just recently found out this was illegal.", "Apart from the car theft thing, it's once again baffling to me that compliant, non-violent suspects are being arrested at gunpoint in the US.", "yeah i’ve seen so many episodes of law and order! i object your honor!", "Are the drawn weapons really needed? No, no they are not. Got to love the police in our land of the free.", "\"It Hertz people\"\n\nIs the new slogan. Spread it https://imgur.com/a/Xj8n8MB\n\nAs the guy said in the video", "I figured that's the case. But it's a pretty dangerous and unnecessary practice.", "They should always be approached as if they are innocent.", "What? lol. I don't think you're a lawyer. \nYou have an enumerated right to make a phone call in the vast majority of US states (38/50). \n\n\nIn the states that don't have an enumerated state code - it is generally taken care of on the municipal level. \n\n\nAt the very least - if you are denied the ability to make a reasonable number of calls to the counsel of your choice you have clear grounds that your 14th amendment rights have been violated.", "Almost all states have an enumerated right to a phone call (38/50). \nIn those states where its not explicitly codified in state law, its usually codified under municipal laws. \n\n\nFor exactly the reason you said - if you aren't allowed access to a phone call (even in an area where it isn't directly codified into law - you have a valid case that you're 14th amendment rights have been violated - because you do have the right to seek out counsel and cannot do so without access to a phone).", "\"I'm in danger\"", "Might wanna record yourself drippi g the car back and getting confirmation in writing it has been returned.", "Adding onto that. A mother locked away for 40 days from her 2 month old baby, and kids.", "Thank God Hertz is dying. They are scum, plus Turo has better cars anyway", "Push", "Sounds like people have a good chance at a class action.", "Your justice system is a mess America. And your Police seem to pull their guns quite readily", "Isn't this you assuming that it was incompetence rather than malice though? How are you so certain?", "My man Steven didn't even rent a car and got a charge pending.", "Yeah, really the only way to get revenge would be to go after the CEO. They find their bodies in ditches you can bet they will care about inflicting pain on their customers.", "Yup. Wait a few months and fuck up their world permanently.", "I think everyone can agree it does t take over a month", "Long story short, because Hertz rented us a truck with stolen plates my boyfriend (on the contract as an authorized driver) was stopped by police. He was pulled over at gunpoint (3 officers with chambered guns). He was cuffed and put in the back of the car before they even told him why he was stopped. When they told him, he was like this vehicle isn’t stolen it’s a rental. They ignored his claims originally. It wasn’t until they hit him to the station that they decided to check out his story so they checked the contract in the glove box and realized he still had a valid contract. \n\nThey called Hertz to confirm and Hertz told the officers to keep the truck! Thankfully, the officers said no and they put “a bubble” around the truck so he could make it home without being stopped again \n\nWe were fortunate the officers listened. It was two days before xmas. He would have spent the holidays in jail because there would have been no bond hearings between that night and xmas. He did miss being able to pick up his son for xmas (that’s where he was going when he was stopped). \n\n[our story aired on CBS Mornings ](https://twitter.com/cbsmornings/status/1456258931190222853?s=21) a month ago (the part 1 to this story).", "I agree but unfortunately that would not have helped at all in this situation. That piece of paper would not get looked at until you get in front of a judge. You’d still spend that intervening time in jail.", "Hertz is fucking awful. They overcharged me on my rental car my last vacation in Maui by like $400, and I had no way of contacting them to get it back.\n\nHertz's customer support line for some reason everytime after holding for 10 minutes said \"sorry, we're really busy. Please call back... Another week.\"\n\nCalled the rental place at the airport several times, never picked up. Sent an e-mail to their support woth my receipts and explaining the overcharge, a week later get an e-mail back saying that they did nothing wrong, no explanation.\n\nI kept trying their number for weeks, but it always gave the bullshit \"we're at full call volume capacity\" fucking bullshit and hangup.\n\nHertz is a scam.", "Avis is doing the same thing. I rented from them and the lot attendant asked me if I wanted a new challenger instead, which I said no to. He asked if I wanted any car, pick one, and he can get it for a great price. These car rental companies definitely are turning a blind eye somewhere or are complicit to some shady shit.", "Holy fuck what a stupid fucking take.", "Personally, I will never use Hertz ever again after learning about this.", "Previous rental car manager here and I can tell you exactly what likely happened. \n\n1. We rent a car to said customer. However the car we rented to them may not be on the contract correctly (happens WAY more often than you think). This could be due to numerous reasons. For example: key tag numbers don’t match the vehicle. Or wrong keys given at the time of checkout. \n\n2. Rental company does monthly inventory checks. Meaning some schmuck has to go around and scan EVERY CAR ON THE LOT. For bigger locations this is HELL. \n\n3. Once cars are done being scanned we filter through the list and compare to the on rent list. If the car does not appear on the lot then we “research it” most of the time the missing car is at a body shop/dealership getting repaired or something. Every now and then that’s not the case though. \n\n4. So, if we have exhausted all outlets looking for this car we then begin the “conversion” process. We have to fill out a pretty decent sized package with steps to take like contacting last person having possession of the car, etc. All of this does conclude to filing a police report. This is the purpose of the packet. Basically evidence for the police. \n\n5. After that we wait. To see if the car shows up (like the example of not being on the correct contract) or the police find it. \n\nSo under the right conditions this could happen to you. Always verify the vin to the one on the contract as well as the numbers on the key fob to the stickers on the car. Also always check the license plate. Criminals will switch them and we don’t always catch it. \n\nAll this is based off a smaller airport location. I’m sure at bigger locations this can vary but all the circumstances can still happen at ANY rental car place.", "It's definitely not. There is a tort called [Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_infliction_of_emotional_distress), but most people completely misunderstand what it is and it almost never applies. (I'm not a lawyer, by the way; this is all secondhand information I've been told from lawyers.) To my understanding, emotional trauma can be calculated as part of punitive damages but is not considered an actual damage. Because if you think about it, how does one quantify the amount of trauma and what it's worth? Actual damages are, y'know, actual. \"My car worth fifteen thousand dollars was totaled by the defendant.\" You have a number there that can be proven.", "As I stated in other replies, no matter how big the payday is for you, it doesn't hurt them at all. See my other replies for further elaboration, if you wish.", "You just summed up defund the police", "Yup imagine if the customer is BIPOC and ended up like George Floyd...", "> Who checked it out after me? \n\nProbably a Hertz employee took it on the sly. Like who the hell would go around doing shady shit in a car that required their drivers licence to rent in the first place??", "What does that make you?", "Yeah, last time I did this it was just a case of dump the keys in a mailbox thing and that was it.", "As someone who works in lockup for the Chicago PD as a non-sworn employee, this is absolutely correct. Phone calls, at least in Chicago, are almost entirely at our discretion", "Many people wave the right to a speedy trial because it theoretically allows you to get your defense together easier. Then the overcrowded court system from all the horrible people selling weed or renting cars clogs the system.", "Well, we can't use OJ as a spokesman any more, get Bill Cosby on the line...", "Seriously, this also happened to me, wasn't arrested though, call asset control in Oklahoma, then call the head office in florida.\n\nWill never deal with them again.", "Probably not necessary but Police always draw their firearms when making a felony arrest stop.", "> Or wrong keys given at the time of checkout.\n\nHow does this not present itself in the first 10 minutes, when the customer couldn't unlock/start the car.", "Happened to me while I had a rental car after an accident. Insurance was supposed to extend it while work was still being done. Paperwork wasn’t completed and I got threatened with it being reported as stolen. They went so far as calling everyone with my last name (not that common) in the phone book looking for me, all because of an insurance error.", "\"Carmen Bosko rented a car from a Florida Hertz location in January and said she returned it in April. But in August, officers in Georgia arrested her for car theft. Bosko spent 40 days in jail and was separated from her three children including her two-month-old baby. \"\n\nHoly sh1t! r/wtf", "If there's no one around and you have to make a flight you should be taking photos with metadata on showing where it was left, that there is no damage and the tank is full anyway. Always CYA when dealing with faceless corporations.", "Probs and stats are not redditer's strong points. Only emotion and virtue.", "Can we ask why guns are being pulled on someone because they are sitting in a car that is ALLEGEDLY stolen? Police wonder why violence happens with the police all the time.... But they escalate for no reason.", "Some. How many get aggressive only because the cops have guns drawn?", "Especially when literally anyone can call in a car stolen", "Except literally anyone can call in a car stolen. Fuck I could call my friends car in stolen since I know his vin and plate.", "In my country those cops would get fired as well. Pointing a gun at a suspected car thief as default, omfg.", "A desperate kid right out of college.", "\"Them\" being the police, right? Because Hertz can't be held responsible for how one is being processed in the system.", "None. Those that respond violently are dangerous felons who don't want to go back to prison.", "Imagine spending well over a month in jail or getting guns pulled on you for that.", "..... as they should.\n\nNot ONLY to protect capital but on a day to day basis, that is naturally the thing under greatest threat.", "Thank you!! It’s not like they are missing a stole t-shirt. It’s a $50,000 car! Sure there are employees who make mistakes at every job. Medical error is the third leading cause of death, and those are highly trained professionals. When someone explained themselves the cops need to look into it before arresting.", "Yikes", "I mean, this could easily be seen as a $2,000,000 lawsuit if you played your cards right. Lost wages, lead to mortgage going under, lead to losing house, lead to losing job. 40 days in jail wrongfully lead to various disorders, now you claim to have PTSD when it comes to police who because they drew guns on you, claim you've developed panic attacks regularly which no longer make you employable. You could make a whole media fiasco about all of this and get a large settlement from hertz as well.", "That's probably part of the reason there are so few police shootings.", "They are shit. I once got an $8 parking ticket and didn't realize in a Hertz car, no on notified me. 2 years later they came after me for $2500, the original $8 parking ticket and \"late fees\" for not paying Hertz in a timely manner. Even though they never got in contact with me for those 2 years.", ">\tyou could probably sue for lost wages, or perhaps some kind of actual damages if you lost your job as the result of said 'clerical error,' \n\nThe lady that lost her real estate license is the one that stands to make the most. A whole year lost when homes were shooting up in value.", "Hertz recently did a $2 billion stock buyback. https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/07/business/elizabeth-warren-hertz-buybacks/index.html", "The pandemic has been hard on my family.\n\nI should rent a car from Hertz and hope for a payday.\n\n40 days in jail should be enough to retire on.", "\"Everyone's so judgmental. Everybody Hertz but I don't judge rentals.\" - YE", "Imagine that happening while being a minority or otherwise part of a commonly targeted group. With a bit of luck the rental company claims to have cleaned the car and there being no other option that it being yours.", "Why not? Can’t win the lottery if you don’t play!", "Sorry to hear that. I hope things start looking up for you and your family without a false arrest.", "Well, they may just hit the honk button and find the car that way then drive off in the wrong car (which should be caught at the gate)", "The whole thing smells like insurance fraud or some similar scam. Hertz was [bankrupt up until June this year](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/01/business/hertz-bankruptcy-car-rental-rebound/index.html) so they need cash. I wonder if they have insurance for loss of earnings if a car is stolen but then later recovered?\n\nSeems like something Hertz's insurance brokers should investigate...", "Double yikes", "I doubt there’s a conspiracy within Hertz to occasionally file false reports against people, and no information released so far indicates there is.", "I would meal team six the shit out of the ceo of hertz if they did that to me.", "Why no punitive $$$? Pain and suffering of being at gunpoint ain’t nuttin’.", "Lol ok. Clearly you have no clue what it like to be at gunpoint.", "There were 2 lawyers in the video they interviewed. Both of them using language that is all but threatening a class action lawsuit they are foaming at the mouth to start up.", "r/wallstreetbets", "This happened to me this summer. I wasn’t arrested luckily but I got a call from an Atlanta PD detective telling me I was under investigation. I’m still fighting a $2000+ charge in late fees even though I actually turned the car in early.", "“Hertz really Hurts people”\n\nThat was very clever", "I mean, she is going to get a good payday. At least $1000 a day in jail if not more.", "How many vehicles are actually stolen? At a mega lot are we taking about 2 vehicles? 10 vehicles?\n\nI am sure it is a good place to steal cars because they are not reported for weeks, I just wonder how many", "Who said anything about a conspiracy?\n\nI think overzealous employees with the desire to show their superiors that they are doing everything in their power to get the \"stolen vehicles\" back is a distinct possibility.", "I don't, but it's just so typical.", "And don’t forget the criminal record, will it get cleared?", "How’s the Supreme Court in your state appointed? What are the damage caps in your state?", "> In Kentucky, there is no cap on punitive damages that a court can award to a victim. It is up to the courts and jury to determine the suitable dollar amount that serves as a deterrent from future behavior. Unlike some other states, there are no limits on punitive damages in Kentucky.", "Well, there you go.", "Based on?", "Lets say your correct and you lost all of that you said how are you going to secure a Lawyer to work the case? \n\n\nYou going to ask them to do it Pro bono\r? \n\n\nAs the case is in the court system taking years to resolve ( 5 - 10 years) your already homeless and jobless what do you do? \n\n\nSo unless you have some kind of support network to support you in the interim years of your case your fantasy falls apart. \n\n\nAlso when your trying to deal with all of this your also have an arrest for grand theft on your record making it hard to find employment. \n\n\nI have personal experience with dealing with corporations even when they are in the wrong. AkA, my family member was in a car crash with video that shows a semi truck from a big name brand crashing into his car due to them driving 20 miles over the speed limit. \n\n\nIt took the family member 7 years of battling to get a settlement offer for more then 75k even through they have millions in medical debt and on going medical treatment for those who where hurt. \n\n\nThis was a clear cut case anyone who watch the video know who is at fault and the truck had a multimillion dollar insurance policy that would make the payout yet they wanted to fight over just how much they are willing to pay out. \n\n\nAt the end of the day the settled for 750k and compressive health care coverage for life for those with long term care issues.", "Umm, if anybody owns hertz its tom brady...he has his own massage chair plug-in next to the teslas lol", "Not to mention the life of paranoia and PTSD from having guns pulled on you for a felony stop...", "Hello guys this happened to me while I was working there, got pulled over and arrested at gun point.", "That's why Hertz won't dismiss the police reports they file.. That could open them up to the liability of filing false police reports. Leave all the reports open and maintain they're 'valid' so that you don't run the risk of being investigated for false police reports. \nThey are basically playing the 5th amendment.. They don't want to incriminate themselves.", "Why the fuck is anyone having a gun pulled on them for car theft? Like, it's a fucking rental car, if they don't return it, make them pay for it, why are the police threatening people's lives over a civil dispute between a company and customers?", "I wonder what the statistics are on felony stops resulting in death (either cop or alleged felon)", "One of us sure doesn't if you think people shoot at cops when pulled over because the cops have guns drawn.", "Curiouser and curiouser", "In the sense it’s used above, “capital” refers to the rich and public corporations. Is that what you intended to endorse?", "> They know this. And I'm sure it's factored into the cost of doing business.\n\nRegardless, the actual money paid out in lawsuits is nothing compared to the reputational damage this will do to Hertz if this becomes widely known.", "Hertz: We'll get you arrested. \n\nNot quite as catchy as \"We'll pick you up.\"\n\nIsn't this also half the fault of the cops? These people have rental agreements, don't they? Isn't that why you keep the rental agreement in your glove box or at least your email?", "The one dude never even rented a car from Hertz, lolwhat.", "So what's the \"actual damage\" when killing the CEO of a car rental company? \n🤔", "Well, them losing a court case can be backed by a public media campaign tell everyone to not use them because they might put you in jail", "You're literally correct, and simultaneously showing why it's circular logic and a systemic problem. The police response is to treat the suspects as if they are already guilty, presupposing danger and risking lives based entirely on a third party's false reporting.", ">simultaneously showing why it's circular logic and a systemic problem\n\nYes. I don't think either me or Delta are defending the practice. We're just answering the question of the legal mechanism for it.", "Understood, and agreed - I didn't read any of these statements as defending the practice. I'm just intending to illustrate that the law and practice are flawed to the point of being lethally broken. Much like \"Swatting.\"", "Someone who already has a long list of warrants attached to that drivers license?\n\nSomeone who tricks someone else to put the rental on the license because they forgot theirs?\n\nI could probably come up with a dozen more plausible scenarios than an employee.", "Does Fritz Jekel type with one finger?", "i've rented like 5 cars, thankfully. i will now be stupidly more careful when i do. fuck.", "Breonna Taylor and Kenneth Walker might disagree that its not always clear who is a cop.", "Who said it was always clear who is a cop? I certainly didn't say that.\n\nLets not pretend that those shootings have anything to do with why police are twitchy during stolen car stops.", "Your missing the point. Since cops are bad at making it clear who is a cop we should avoid training them to immediately escalate a situation. Other countries dont treat stolen cars that way and they dont have nearly as many issues with people attacking cops from stolen cars.", "What shithole country jails people right away over a fucking car?", "A big location in Alabama had over 60 cars “missing” at one point if I recall correctly. You’re talking fleet sizes 10k plus though when you look at major cities. So just by that sheer number you get a bigger ratio of cars being stolen. \n\nAlso it’s incredibly easy to steal a car at the right lots if you’re a risky person like that. I don’t know how many times idiotic customers would leave the keys in the car and we wouldn’t find it until mid day the next day. This was in a public unsecure lot too. \n\nSo imagine if we did inventory and right after a customer left a key in the car. Someone could have found said car and stolen it. We would be none the wiser until a customer questions why their contract was still open. With our system it just automatically charges more so we can keep the $200 deposit plus rental charges going. So cars can be easily stolen on certain lots.", "Precisely. And not all lots have gates. If we hand you keys at the checkout you walk out to your car and drive off the lot. Most people don’t question if car is parked in a different spot. They got a key and will just drive away.", "[Police have no legal liability to protect individuals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAfUI_hETy0). As far as I know there's nothing in most of their codes saying they have any such goal either, at least nothing binding. While I don't think there's anything binding them to protect companies they're definitely much more incentivized to since thefts and other corporate targeted crime will hurt their reputation and political standing.\n\nJust look at the the response in SF to the surge in mass robberies of high end boutiques downtown: huge commitments in increased police presence for fear of losing business, tax revenue, and political power. That's great and all but where's that kind of action with the rampant car break-ins happening throughout the city to individuals? Nowhere to be seen outside of some empty words.", "You are assuming, with no facts to back it up, that people stopped in cars that have been reported as stolen are unaware that the guys with the flashing lights are cops.\nPeople rarely impersonate the police. It does happen, but not often enough for your premise to be valid.", "You just have to make sure you get a receipt, like anything else you spend money on and have liability for. I was in a rental or two every week for a few years at my last couple of jobs and rarely had any issues.", "at least some of the cases mentioned though was hertz claiming people never returned the vehicle. a recipt wouldn't save you then. i'm thinking, at least me taking a picture of the vehicle i left it in should at least have a date/time associated with it. it's better than nothing, but that wouldn't save the cops having pulling the guns on me.", "A state statute is not generally what anyone refers to as a \"right\" - normally that is state or federal constitutional rights - those that can't be denied by the legislature if they choose to. If they change a statute then it the doesn't exist; if the state denies it, there is no remedy except that which the legislature says you get. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nYou say it is enumerated, then give a citation to caselaw analyzing the US constitution and holding that there is a constitutional right to a phone call. I'm waiting.", "You have a constitutional right to due process of the law when the state is depriving you of liberty. \n\n\nHere's an example from Californias penal code. \n\n\n851.5 (a) (1) Immediately \n upon being booked and, except where physically impossible, no later \nthan three hours after arrest, an arrested person has the right to make \nat least three completed telephone calls, as described in subdivision \n\n\nAs I said - it is an enumerated as a right by the majority of states. Can those states' legislatures remove that from the books? sure. But until they do, you absolutely have the right to a phone call in those states", "You don't seem to understand. A right is something that the state cannot take away, laid out in the constitution explicitly or interpreted by appellate courts. A statute can be removed at any time, for any or no reason.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nThe state can absolutely alter this example statute and remove the procedure providing the phone call. This is not a right to a phone call, this is more a \"the law says you're supposed to get a call\". If the state violated this statute\\, there are remedies only that are allowed by the statute; the state can and does routinely say something is supposed to occur in a particular way, but there is nothing you can do if it doesn't happen in that way.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nI'm still waiting for the caselaw holding that there is a constitutional right to a phone call. That's because it doesn't exist. And you probably don't even understand what that means and I'm wasting my time here.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n\\\"a right\" ---> \"this statute\"", "No kidding.", "After your day in court.", ">This is not a right to a phone call, this is more a \"the law says you're supposed to get a call \n\n\n1) The law explicitly says an arrested person HAS A RIGHT to a phone call. \n\n\n2) You seem to be under the impression that the only \"rights\" people are entitled to under the law are constitutional rights. That's just.... obviously wrong. \n\n\n\"Legal rights are claims recognizable and enforceable under systems of law\"\n\n[https://definitions.uslegal.com/l/legal-right/](https://definitions.uslegal.com/l/legal-right/) \n\n\nI'm well aware of what caselaw is - that doesn't make your request relevant lol. This is like me claiming that Messi is a professional soccer player and you asking me show you a Premier league team with him on the roster.", "> you could probably sue for lost wages\n\nHow about the fact that I'm someone that is known in the community and my name and good standing were irrevocably besmirched?", "Good to know that Hertz is the company I don't want to rent from.", "That's not an actual damage. If it came to it, I imagine you MIGHT be able to file a defamation suit, but I think you'd have to prove that they knowingly and falsely filed the police report. And my bet is that these cases have everything to do with incompetence and not malice.\n\nEDIT: To make myself clear, an actual damage is one that can be quantified. So you could say \"Because I was arrested, the contract I had signed with my client for $500,000 was cancelled and I lost out on that income,\" or \"I lost three weeks' worth of wages as the result of being in jail,\" or even \"I lost my job and now nobody will hire me, so I have had no income for the last four months as a result of this, which totals to $X.XX.\" Losing face in the community and \"pain and suffering\" cannot be quantified and thus cannot be considered actual. Again, I am not a lawyer and this is just MY understanding of these things, and I welcome corrections if I'm misstating something.", "Welp, Herz will never get my business. Or anyone at my office.\n\nGG Fuckers, boycott Herz, Punish those douchebags.\n\nIts up to all of us to make sure they feel it. Do not Rent from Herz.\n\nI never will.", "My request is relevant if we're talking about the same thing. You think an online dictionary is a legal reference and that a right is something provided in unenforceable statutes in a majority of states. It's not and that's not a meaningful definition of \"right\" when talking about the entire country, which is why I was asking for something that would actually apply to the entire country.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nI don't do soccer, so I'm assuming your analogy means you concede there is no constitutional right to a phone call despite you referencing due process language as if it was a constitutional right.", "Sounds like the documented process of reporting stolen vehicles is broken.", "Based on the way people have behaved in the past. Yet it is mere speculation not unlike your assumption of incompetence.\n\nIncompetence is as ever a more likely reason, but I do believe my proposed scenario to be worthy of consideration as well.", "Don't forget your silence can still be used against you unless you explicitly state and practically put in writing your exercising that right - less it's still not invoked and you end up like many poor sobs over the years\n\nfuck my ass", "> no number of these kinds of lawsuits would prevent companies from just writing these things off as rounding errors\n\nThe courts are aware of this, and that's why punitive damages/exemplary damages are a thing.\n\nThe oft-cited McDonald's hot coffee case is an example that gets widely misrepresented in the media and word of mouth. In that case, (a) the woman's actual medical expenses were far greater than would otherwise be expected by spilled hot coffee—because it wasn't just burns from a cup of ordinary hot coffee—and (b) courts had already told McDonald's several times to quit fucking around and their response had been to do exactly what you posit—nothing. So they were hit with her ginormous medical bills, plus punitive damages that would actually stand a chance at deterring further future fuckery because continuing to maim people would have otherwise been considered to be cheap enough to deal with.\n\nThe Ford Pinto case is another example that is taught in the ethics curriculum in what I would guess is every engineering school in the US.", "It's the end of 2021 and courts are still dealing with delays.", "Her medical bills totaled $10,000; McDonald's appealed the $2m judgment; and last I had heard, they settled for an undisclosed amount that was less than $600,000. And just so we're clear—the $2m figure that was awarded by the jury was two days' worth of coffee sales.\n\nThe REASON McDonald's was held responsible was because they knew they were keeping their coffee hotter than the health department allowed and did it anyway, despite having been caught many times.\n\nThe situation here is not the same. If Hertz is acting in good faith when it files these police reports, then there's very little that can be done, punitively, to them, at least as I understand it.\n\nBut if you believe two days' worth of sales of a single product is considered truly punitive, I don't know what to tell you. It's a drop in the bucket. A rounding error. And what's more, McDonald's were able to spin the story into their own favor by painting Stella Liebeck as a crazy old woman who wanted to rob them blind.", "I see that you aren’t a lawyer, your statements say it all. Emotional harm is a very real factor now.", "\"the rich and public corporations\" are people. People with property and wealth that may be damaged or stolen. Yes, the police exists to protect all of those things.\n\nIs it your intention to endorse open season on anyone you deem to be too rich? What exactly is your position.\n\nOn a day to day basis more crimes are committed against businesses than induvial people. Thus, that is what the police spend the most time on. I don't see how it could ever be any different. This is the \\minimum\\ necessary for a safe society.\n\nYou seem to believe that some citizens don't deserve their protection?", "Are you suggesting it should be open season on businesses? Are you happy to see smash mobs, for example? Did anything I say suggest anything other than \"the police exist to protect society\"? All I did was point out what part of society the most crime is perpetrated against on a day to day basis. Businesses.", "This is a symptom of a larger problem. Property owners use our armed officers of the law to enforce what they believe is their right. They can use officers in evictions, and in cases like this, rental property. We are requiring armed officers to seize property for what may be flimsy reasons. \n\nPolice are armed in case they have to work confronting violent individuals with weapons. But somehow this is morphed into individuals being you able to call upon a public resource when they need to act as the leader of a mob, or gang.", "Yeah same in my county jail, but they take your money before they put you in the cell lmfao \n\nYou can use your inmate Id as a code to call out though but you only get one shot so pray they answer or their voicemail isn’t full! \n\nI learned that the smartest thing you can do is get on good terms with a bail bondsman and call them, you can even leave a card on file with them if you have the forethought", "Yes. In fact every time someone smashes up a store they should get a medal", "I guess you're being sarcastic. I have no response.", "Are you a lawyer? If so, I would love to be corrected. I'm assuming you're not or you would have, y'know, given me reasons why I'm wrong. As far as I understand it, you can request punitive damages for emotional harm but it is not an actual damage in the sense that you can't quantify it.\n\nIn short, I think you're full of shit until you can back up what you said with proof. I've at least had actual lawyers tell me what I repeated in my previous comment.", "Definitely they’re people (well, the people are) and have rights to the protection of the state, just not exclusively. Historically, police organizations have protected their interests above those of the less-wealthy citizens, which is why I wondered if you meant that.", "> Her medical bills totaled $10,000\n\nThat appears to be incorrect.\n\n> The situation here is not the same[...] Hertz is acting in good faith\n\nThey've been made aware of the problem, same as McDonald's was. With that being the case, \"acting in good faith\" would not be an accurate descriptor for their actions (assuming we are taking the relevant claims at face value as being true, which it seems like we are—and which we have to do for this exchange to be meaningful/productive).\n\n> if you believe two days' worth of sales of a single product is considered truly punitive\n\nYou acknowledge that they spent time litigating the judgment because it was a high figure, and they desired a different outcome, right? And it deterred them from continuing their previous MO by motivating them to change, yes? So punitive action worked. Or no? What's your actual position here, because it's not clear what, if anything, you actually stand for—or whether you're arguing just to argue. You originally said judgment is limited to actual damages. Do you acknowledge now that that isn't true? If \"no\", I have a hard time understanding, regardless of anything else, how this most recent comment could have been written.", "> You originally said judgment is limited to actual damages\n\nThat's not at all what I said. What I SAID was that actual damages are what you can BRING SUIT FOR. You can't just sue because your feelings were hurt—meaning that unless you can prove a quantifiable amount of money that the company's actions cost you, there isn't even a chance that they'll get punitive damages, because those are only calculated after the actual damages. And my further point was that any punitive damages will have very little effect on actually hurting the company because it's already factored into the cost of doing business.\n\n> They've been made aware of the problem, same as McDonald's was. With that being the case, \"acting in good faith\" would not be an accurate descriptor for their actions.\n\nIt doesn't work like that. Hertz may—MAY—mitigate the PR issues by saying \"we've put things in place to prevent us from mistakenly sending police after our cars,\" but as long as they can say these things to the cops—\n\n1. \"We looked everywhere we can think of and still can't find the car\"\n2. \"Our records indicate that this person was last in possession of it and they don't indicate that the person has returned the car\"\n3. \"Their contract ended on this day but we don't have a record of them returning it\"\n\n—they will legally be within their rights to call the cops. Short of that, you'd have to prove either malice or negligence in their procedures of validating that the car has been returned. As long as they say their policies have been followed, they are legally in the clear, unless somebody can prove that they deliberately didn't follow their own policy.\n\nBut again, the point I was making in my original comment, and the point I've been trying to make ever since, is that \"I will OWN that company\" is a fantasy and will never happen no matter how bad the company's action is. Laws don't work like that, corporations don't work like that, and courts don't work like that. It is essentially impossible to hit a company with a big enough fine that it will actually hurt them.", "> That's not at all what I said. What I SAID was that actual damages are what you can BRING SUIT FOR.\n\nYou know it's possible to look back at what you wrote and see whether that's true or not, so I don't get what you're doing. I suspected before—and was allowing for confusion/misunderstanding on my end—but it seems like you are just being mercurial. So I'm gone from this discussion.", "Y'know what, looking back at this specific thread, I guess(?) I can see why you're confused. It's probably egotistical of me to assume that people read my other comments in the same thread, and I guess I kind of combined those in my head, because looking at the very specific things I wrote, I guess it could be interpreted that I was saying that it's not possible to collect punitive damages—although I would argue that in my opinion I did qualify my comments there enough that it was clear I was including them.\n\nHowever. Yes, in my original post I did say, and I quote:\n>the law almost always only allows for you to collect on actual damages.\n\nand that is not true, not as written. What I meant to say after that and just apparently bungled was that you can't collect punitive damages until you have actual damages. That is to say, the courts can't assign punitive damages to a party without also assigning actual damages. You also can't bring suit without actual damages, i.e. you can't sue somebody just for pain and suffering.\n\nThe rest of what I said holds true, in reference to punitive damages not really hurting the company at all.\n\nI do think you're being intentionally obtuse here, though—I used the word punitive in every single comment in this thread, so it's not like I was stating or even implying that punitive damages don't exist. I also made it clear in my other posts outside of this specific thread, but like I said, I guess I can't have expected that you'd have actually read those.", "Cops are trained that their guns are the way to communicate with anyone that could be called a \"suspect\". They are literally trained to be afraid for their lives at all times.\n\nDuring training. If they use the logic of \"I'm willing to risk my life. That's the job\". They are told \"don't risk your partners life. If you die they might die because of you\". They literally try to guilt people into using their gun as a first measure in all suituations that might be dangerous.\n\nAmerica is insane. This video is more about how awful the police state is and how much police blindly follow corporations wishes. Even when its all just a corporation making the mistake. The cops listen to them. The STATE get's sued for taking excessive measures. And WE the tax payer pay for it.\n\nWe are the citizens pay for a police force that works for corporations and the wealthy. While the later just avoids paying any taxes. And the taxes they do pay pay for a military overseas to benefit them and a military on our citizens to benefit them. These are the reasons we see the fear mongering over theft and crime lately. They are feeling threatened by certain movements of workers and want to fund their defenses more. So, they create a false narrative that \"things are dangerous\" even though crime is at an all time low in most places. The use the media to fund their protection. Amazon workers die in a warehouse because prime delivery is more important than lives.\n\nHertz will get off with a \"logistics error\" and pay minimal restitution to the clients. The only people getting money are the ones that felt threatened for their life and served jail time. They will get money from us the tax payer. We subsidize the mistakes of corporations and they are made worse by the police state that is the US. Fuck this country!\n\nEDIT: I replied to the wrong comment lol", "if this is the case with hertz then the lawyers will have a field day in discovery. calling the cops due to poor internal controls", "So that's your best effort at reasoning? Literally anyone can do literally anything? So what? How about your hypothetical doesn't even closely map onto reality? How about the percentage of felony stops for auto theft that officers engage in, that are the result of some convoluted ruse (or corporate ineptitude in Hertz's case) is exceedingly low?\n\nYou know, literally anyone could lie about STDs so no one should wear condoms. Ever think about that?", "Somehow I don't think that's the dumbest thing you've ever said. I mean\n...like...how in the fuck do you think the world even works? If your sister said so-and-so raped her, on their date, in the backseat of his car, your initial response would be well... let's presume he's innocent...and since innocent people are innocent they shouldn't be questioned...because that's unbecoming. Holy fuck you're an idiot.", "You can presume whatever you want on a personal level. But you are not the government. The state has a responsibility to presume innocence, and that extends to the police. If your sister accuses someone of rape, the police have to assume that person's innocence until a court of law determines otherwise. Presuming guilt and drawing guns at the drop of a hat just encourage more police shootings.", "Okay, professor. So....do you think the US Supreme Court has weighed in on the issue of officers drawing guns in this type of situation for a felony stop (even when the person was factually innocent)? If not, why do you think someone as smart as yourself has seen a constitutional violation that somehow...magically....no other lawyer has. And if you are aware of precedence on the matter, again, to what would you explain an apparent daily nationwide disregard for these constitutional rulings? Or...if the precedence supports officers' felony stop procedures, what in your esteemed legal opinion is the reason the Supreme Court got their ruling wrong?", "Did I say this stop, or others, violated the Constitution? No, I didn't. I don't know if they have or not, and I don't care. What I care about is minimizing harm caused by routine police stops, and protecting the lives and wellbeing of ordinary people whose guilt has not been proven.\n\nThese kinds of antagonistic arrests only lead to unnecessarily violent and sometimes deadly confrontations absent from most other wealthy societies. There's no reason Americans should allow themselves to be subjected to such risks.", "You said that people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. That's literally a legal concept enshrined by the SC's interpretation of the 5th, 6th, and 14th Amendments. You weren't merely criticizing police procedure, YOU WERE ATTEMPTING TO CITE LAW....lol why can't you simply own up to your ill conceived ideas when presented with sound reasoning? What you are failing to understand is the law is not some ephemeral construct that doesn't squarely sit in reality. The law looks at facts, it takes into account public policy, it considers reasonableness. I honestly don't know if you're stupid or just being intellectually dishonest, but when you say things like \"these kind of antagonistic arrests only lead to unnecessarily violent and sometimes deadly confrontations....\" it indicates that you've made up your mind and will refuse to be convinced even on a rhetorical level. You say you're concerned about innocent people getting killed when police effect a felony stop (i.e. guns drawn). And, obviously no one wants that but you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. The overwhelming number of stops for a reported stolen car are because the car is IN FACT STOLEN. So, you're saying that because some few unfortunate people are mistakenly (even perhaps negligently in Hertz's case) subjected to a felony stop, that we should, as a matter of policy, put officers in more danger by diminishing their tactical best practices (i.e. unholstered, low ready) and putting them behind the power curve in the NOT UNCOMMON EVENT that the suspect is armed and willing to use deadly force against them. Now, as for your final retreat into guns bad, Murica have too many guns, argument. Well, if one could wave a magic wand and delete the 2nd Amendment, and make all firearms disappear. Well....yeah, that would solve a lot of problems. But it would also open the door to large problems....Larger problems that the founding fathers were concerned enough about to make the 2nd Amendment, THE SECOND of all the Amendments. But, moreover, because we have the 2nd Amendment, that other countries don't have, we are the heavily armed country that we are and it is complete and utter fantasy to think you can disarm the nation a la Australia circa 1996. They confiscated 650,000 firearms in a country with ZERO borders, at a time when GHOST GUNS WEREN'T A THING. Complete and utter denial of reality...." ]	448	videos	Hertz Customers Have Been Wrongfully Arrested For "Stolen" Vehicles They Actually Rented
https://youtu.be/ATORgYnGcKk	/r/videos/comments/rethok/where_the_heck_does_all_the_soil_go_every_year/	[ "Good explanation. Yeah, that bothered me the moment he said it", " #2 is definitely a common misconception. Plants are essentially solidified air and liquid water.", "the soil go in my ass", "What do you do with cover crop when ur ready to replant in spring?", "I came for the knowledge, I stayed for the slow blink.", "You harvest right after the jointing stage right before seeding. That way the crop (if its a rye/grass) doesn't seed everywhere and its spent all its energy so it won't regrow and become a weed itself.\n\nAll explained here: https://youtu.be/O9rGyKnRusA" ]	6	videos	Where the heck does all the soil go every year?
https://youtu.be/7MBRgLEXLEE	/r/videos/comments/retibr/man_searching_landfill_for_discarded_hard_drive/	[ "If that aint some kinda metaphor for late stage capitalism....", "Such a torment to be trapped in, that, one may never outlive it. The curse of an opportunity lost but not completely, and so the search continues. \n\nNonetheless, I am a firm believer in if you really want something you can accomplish it. (sometimes in our current society) If he hones all of his energies on this it may come through unless it never ended up in that landfill.", "Man not searching landfill. Man not have permission.", "There is no way that hard drive is read-able", "For $350 million it's worth checking.", "I'm of the opinion that he should let it go. The guy said it's soul destroying, and that he spends every second of the day thinking about what could have been. No amount of money is worth ruining your mental health. If he searches, he'll probably lose more money to excavation, find nothing, and forever wonder if it's just a little bit further.", "Even if it's fucked the actual key to his bitcoins is really tiny and being able to pull some data from it might be possible. At least [that's what he's hoping](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump).", "Feel the sorrow of Hope's demise.", "As someone who has hard drives in that landfill I'm now wondering what I left on them.\n\nHopefully they're not the same make and model as his one.", "I can’t wait for the headline that reads “Man Finally Finds Hard Drive Containing 7500 Bitcoin In Landfill!” to be placed beneath the front page headline reading “Bitcoin and Crypto Crash afterFederal Crackdown!”", "Imagine trying to explain to ancient people the hell we make for ourselves in modernity.", "How about if it was beneath the headline of “Inflation climbs 6.8 percent in November, highest level in 40 years”.\n\nOh, never mind. That was yesterday’s headline.", "I think it would be worse to find it destroyed and unusable after the effort. I didn't throw any bitcoin away in the trash but I did spend bitcoin when it was super cheap and thinking about all the hundreds of thousands that I spent on food is just something I have to chalk up to experience.", "Isn’t this what blockchain is for?", "I don't know when he disposed of it but he definitely did it when it wasn't worth a ton. Chances are he would have sold out WAAAAY sooner than today and probably only made tens of thousands if he had it. It existing in the dump for this time is the only reason why it's worth what it's worth because it was inaccessible.", "That's an interesting point. There are probably many in there and having to pay to recover the data on all of those sounds very costly.", "there's a key used to access a bitcoin wallet and it sounds like this guy didn't back up his keys", "so if he doesn't find it will it just like float in the ether unusable and basically just gone like a fart in the wind?", "This sounds like the plot of a Terry Gilliam or David Fincher movie in the near future.", "Running water, electricity, internet and antibiotics is probably worth it.", "I lost an earbud in the dark last night, so I know what this guy is going through.", "Yep, in fact 20% of all bitcoins are inaccessible due to lost keys.", "Future generations are going to find your hard drive and question your mental state when they find the porn.", "that's fuckin wild man", "Yep, ten years ago, the total amount of dollars in the US money supply was. 9.568 Trillion USD. Today, it is 21.187 Trillion USD. Nothing to see here folks! Source (official Federal Reserve chart: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL)", "We can have these things without inventing currencies that do nothing but drive up inflation and make things worse for the environment and poor people", "Its easy to say that when youre not in his shoes, not saying theres a high chance hes going to get that hard drive, especially under tons of dirt it might have been crushed to pieces, but the 0.001% chance that its there is enough for someone to chase after that much bitcoin", "Put a flashlight on the floor and shine it sideways to make fallen objects cast a more noticeable shadow so you can find them.", "No chance. He's wasting everyone's money on this.", "No way he finds that. Poor guy seems to have gone nuts.", "Please explain", "Well you were under the mistaken belief that it was a currency (mostly because everyone said it was, and some still do) despite it actually being an unregulated investment fund for the wealthy. So, don't really blame yourself.", "Thanks, found my lost bitcoins again", "It ought to be more concerning that we arent recycling this stuff, and just tossing it in a landfill.", "How much energy went into creating this artificial value?", "I bought an ounce of shrooms for 1.5 bitcoin... Also had like .3 in a mtgox account that would be nice to have now lol.", "I'll help him for 0.5%", "Oh the joys of being your own bank.", "Depends 100% on when he (I assume) mined/acquired it. If it was during the earlier years, not much at all compared to now.", "Let's say he found it tomorrow. Would he be able to withdraw it all? Or how much would he be able to?", "You’re able to sit comfortably at home, read this news from thousands of miles away immediately, and comment to millions of strangers on an information highway. I think ancient people would be more amazed at that then this news.", "[Mike Judge needs to stop willing stupid reality into existence.\n](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEjaZw95kI)", "It's all hindsight. I remember when they weren't worth anything and people would just give away hundreds of them. :/", "This happened in my home town so its been on the local news for years back when the value was just a million or so.\n\nA friend who works for the council said there have been loads of break ins by Irish traveller types randomly digging round looking for the HDD but without any idea where to start it's like an atom in a haystack.", "Maybe, but I’m not entirely convinced the internet as people currently engage with it is a net positive in the equation.", "Not really no.", "Silicon Valley had a similar plot line: \n\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygZ10y\\_R1qQ", "Well, at least he doesn't live in Switzerland where it is likely that your drive was burned so no chance of getting anything back.", "Not heard the inflation thing before. How does crypto affect that?", "That's how I feel about NFTs.", "I'd laugh if he found it right after Bitcoin crashes and the drive is worth 10 bucks.", "[Heaven]\n\nMe: I once spent three weeks digging through garbage to recover a fortune in bitcoin.\n\nGuy from 1366 AD: My wife developed an infection from a scratch on her leg and made it about a month before she died. My daughters had to pick up the slack to harvest enough onions to keep the local lord from kicking us out; one died from dehydration, the other from malnutrition. My neighbors would say that I died of a broken heart, but it was really an abscessed tooth that I had ignored for too long. You live like we did and you get good at hiding pain.\n\nMe: Ok, but I feel like you're not understanding how much Bitcoin this was.", "If he finds it and the key is intact, he will be able to sell it most likely. I doubt however that the data is recoverable at this point even if he finds it.", "How does Bitcoin help that? Things are still expensive to buy. Bitcoin isn't stopping inflation.", "I think you’re reading more pessimism about modernity than is actually present in my comment. I have a lot of gratitude for modern life too, but it’s certainly absurd sometimes.", "I thought for sure this was the inspiration for the scene from Silicon Valley where Russ loses a thumb drive with millions of dollars of Crypto on it.", "I got 5 btc by clicking on a tap on some site. It was worth noting at a time and i needed space on my 80 gig hard drive, so i deleted it. If only i knew the difference at a time, i would have deleted blockchain folder and kept my wallet.\n\nI still have that drive as a reminder. Its working, but it was formatted and reformatted so many times, it is impossible to recover that wallet.", "The same way that printing money and giving it out drives up inflation. When crypto prices go up, no value is actually being generated.", "Why are the choices internet or human sacrifice?", "You spent it? Wow. I'll have to mark this down as the first person I've seen who \\_spent\\_ Bitcoin.\n\nFYI, it's not meant to be spent, it's meant to hold onto until it's worth...well more.", "were the food good tho", "An IT worker not only trashed instead of recycled equipment, but also didn't scrub the drive? This persons an idiot all around.", "This I’d how I would behave if I were him. It would most likely drive me to madness.\n\nIt could be in that next shovelful.\n\nSo sad, but it will most like run his life. It doesn’t have to, but it most likely will. I think it would take a good bit of counseling to move past, even then…….", "You'd be surprised what can be recovered from a damaged hard drive.", "Why would he withdraw it? In ten year it'll be worth so much more.", "It could very well be readable. Data recovery people are able to read really beat up hard drivers.", "Newport represent!!", "Don’t you know that’s what we were doing in the 70s? Memaw got her heart ripped out by the town mayor so Old Man Johnson’s tomatoes could grow.", "HODL", "I'd say the chances of finding the lost HDD is about 1 in 350m.", "Only the FED and its policies and help limit inflation, up to a certain point.\n\nUnfortunately so much USD has been printed in the last 2 years that it's runaway inflation at this point. Cryptos, just like precious metals, are a safe haven from this inflation. They give people highly liquid options (cryptos are easy and quick to sell for fiat, unlike real estate).\n\nThe worst thing you can do is to hold on to your Dollars long term, as your money just devalues while you sleep.\n\nThe sad part is that the more popular cryptos grow as a safe haven for fiat, the worse inflation will get (as the market gets flooded with USD in exchange for digital assets). But at this point I don't think that this process can be stopped anymore, which is why I predict exponential inflation paired with exponential increases in the values of cryptos. You can thank the FED for that.\n\nYoung people of today, who have grown up in some of the safest times in history, need to realize that we're not immune to a currency collapse (or, at the very least, extreme currency devaluation). It happened in relative modern history, and can certainly happen today.", "I would simply just buy land instead of Bitcoin", "It was okay. Mostly burritos.", "His mental health must be devastated by this perpetual torture he's putting himself through.", "They have found accidentally thrown out jewelry so a hard drive why not.", "So it’s an asset and not a currency? Legit question, I don’t know enough about crypto to know the answer. I own a few eth tokens but no coin", "Why? There are companies that recover data from smashed and burned disks all the time. In fact you’re straight up wrong. It’s most likely recoverable.", "No I'm pretty sure it's readable, it's sort of my job at work to help people with this and more often than not I can get them what they want.\n\nBut he's definitely not finding that hdd.", "Honestly as long as the outer case hasn’t been breached and and drive hasn’t been bombarded with magnetic fields the platters undoubtedly still have the data written to the,. They can be removed and read, don’t discount forensic data recovery tactics.", "And once they find it, how would they access it without knowing the keys?", "He's offering to pay the city tens of millions. Does he already have the money? He's delusional if he thinks the city is going to front the expense on the hope that the drive is found, is readable, and contains his key.", "Those two headlines are not mutually exclusive", "Sure it is theoretically possible, but every single bit of the key needs to be intact. \n \nWhen you recover images, videos and normal documents you can lose a letter or a pixel here and there and it won't affect the recovery much...but with a hash keys it needs to be perfectly 100%.", "I lost an airpod in the snow the other day getting out of my vehicle \n\n\nLuckily it was paired.. Turned on some music really loud and stuck my head on the ground listening for it. Managed to find it after a few minutes...", "I recently had to drop some stuff off at the dump. The run over everything with massive compactors that have huge teeth on them to grind everything to a pulp. That's after it's been compacted in the truck. Only thing he has going for him is each load is assigned a specific grid and elevation but I doubt there will be anything left to it.", "Ya know there was a time when bitcoin wasnt worth much at all and there wasnt any expectation for it to become what it is today. Thats when the bitcoin was spent and he isnt the only early bitcoin user who has done it. It wasnt REALLY considered some smart, full proof investment back then.\n\nBut yeah, obviously hindsight is 20/20.", "We live in a meritocracy btw", "I agree but now if it is in that dump, dig away my friend, that is a new gold mine. Not sure if I would even notify people but I guess word got around and he wants law to protect his property.", "[This](https://m.imgur.com/2WrZb0a) always gets me.", "I don't know, I think Wikipedia is good for humanity.", "Man, I am not sure how landfills work over there. But if he knew the exact month it was dumped, it would not be that hard to go back and find it here in America in modern dumps. You would know it would be exactly between this xxx' elevation and this elevation yyy' and could probably even know what grid was being filled at that time.", "CAKE OR DEATH?", "Yeah. It's functionally a really volatile stock. People just act like it's a currency because it's easy to claim and it gives it an air of legitimacy.", "hah!\n\nget boned guy who contributed to the environmental catastrophe that is bitcoin.", "I almost find some similarity to those with loved ones gone missing.", "Splended", "LOL - pirate treasure!", "You own several Ethereum but you don't know anything at all about crypto? o.O", "Paying someone to excavate a landfill may not be worth the reward, given the small likelihood of claiming it. Kind of like playing the lottery, but with a much bigger buy in. Plus he's putting himself through unnecessary anguish. If he could do it cheaply, and with the ability to walk away from a failed attempt knowing he tried his best, I'd say go for it. But I doubt that will happen.", "Still?", "What do mean most likely? What’s up with all these dumb comments? If he finds the disk and it’s damaged but in one piece the odds are over 90 percent that the data can be recovered. Second, there’s no “most likely” if he can sell them if recovered. That’s a certainty.", "Does your worksite have a clean room for removing the platters? The cost for data recovery can be high, and it's because of that i've just decided it wasn't worth it to me to spend the money. That said I never had to recover a private key to a wallet worth millions..", "LOL, in the same boat here, used many bitcoins for dark transactions back in the day. Whish I kept a few of the coins but such as life.", "Not if you have to spend 10 million to find it. Who's gonna pay for it all? He hasn't got a penny. He's offering a cut of the find.", "This. 100%", "This is perhaps the saddest thing imaginable.", "If you're using it like a currency you're idiotic, it's just a convenient place to put money for a while if you have a lot of it and a consistent income.", "Don't they use scrapyard magnets to move debris in landfills all the time?", "I think at 350 million, you cash out and gtfo", "This poor guy needs to learn to let it go.", ">It benefits the unbanked as evident from El Salvador.", "\"missed out on what could have been\" \n\ni'll tell you what WOULD have been. Bitcoin would have hit 700 bucks and he would have sold ages ago thinking he hit the top like everyone else. The only people that hodl'd this long are people who are never selling and people who lost access to their coins forcing them to hold.\n\nedit: I did not expect this comment to get the attention it did. For everyone that has been personally wronged or affected by this comment because you know plenty of people who didn't sell all of their coins. I have this to say:\n\nAlright.", "No matter how hard Bitcoin crashes, it will still be worth it. There is no way it will crash under a few grand.", ">and there won’t be able Bitcoin so there isn’t inflation\n\nAh yes this makes perfect sense thank you", "It's still not a smart fool proof investment now despite what the most annoying perpetually late to the game crypto bros try to convince you of.", "This was before you had wallets. You had to store your keys in files on your HDD.", "I really hate MM being used as an abbreviation for million.\n\nI know that it is used, but i really hate it.", "He was one of the first ten people to mine bitcoin. He then forgot about it until 2013, when he saw an article about the soaring price. At that point, his bitcoin would still have been worth 2-8 million, depending on his timing. Even at the very lowest price they went to after that crash, they'd still have been worth over a million.\n\nIf he was sensible, and had kept even 10-20% for the long run, not only would he have had millions to spend since 2013, he'd have 30-60 million in bitcoin today.", "I think the smart play would be to withdraw some to retire on, and diversify the rest between crypto and various grandpa stocks.", "After reading the article this is 100% not real", "TIL $350 million isn't worth $10 million.", "You fundamentally misunderstand. Bitcoin supply is capped at 21 million. Therefore no one can \"print\" more bitcoin. The fact that no more bitcoin can be created is what makes it inflation proof, although people say that its not an inflation hedge due to its price volatility. IMHO, price volatility comes from the fact that the market is immature, though.\n\nIt really surprises me that people hop on here and run their fingers with 0 idea of what they are talking about. Sad because someone in passing might read your comment and think it is true", "It's just like playing Minecraft", "Money not being tied to any real world value is exactly late stage capitalism. The game is folding in on itself. It's replicating itself and losing a little bit of what made it work every time, like a jpeg that's been copied and saved a million times.", "Magnetic fields don't destroy data on hardrives!\nOnly works if if there is a really strong field near the writing head, while it's writing.", "This is the kind of question we’re going to be asking in the 22nd century lol", "Videos from phones that were immerged in the ocean for years were successfully recovered : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking\\_of\\_MV\\_Sewol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol)\n\nSo I think anything is possible.", "Influx of comments from people with a vested interest in crypto and a tenuous grasp on finance and economics", "Bitcoin is worth 28% less today than it was a month ago.", "Many years ago, when bitcoin was just fresh, I installed a bitcoin mining software and looked at it, got overwhelmed and didnt want to bother learning how to start it up and closed/uninstalled it. This was when mining would yield whole bitcoins in no time on a personal PC.\nWhen I remembered that years later, it was a tough pill to swallow. I cant even imagine actually having owned the thousands of bitcoins and lost them. Its not easy to move on from that, maybe impossible.", "A modern \"lost treasure\".", "the future of money", "So that 21 million Bitcoin has always existed as a natural resource waiting to be mined? And those 21 million Bitcoin are the only cryptocurrency that will ever be created ever again? If you’re unable to see how creating a new cryptocoin every day + extreme market volatility can lead to inflation of normal currency, then you’re the confused one.", "Originally it was meant to be spent as a currency. An alternative way to pay for your goods and services that wasn't beholden to a bank or country.\n\nOf course it's practicality as a commodity to trade with an unrestricted value in \"real money\" made it an obvious investment opportunity, if extremely risky.", "It's a bet. Made with somebody else's money. \n\nNo it's not worth it.", "It isn't if the chance of saving it is less than 2.857%", "I think the point is that the city will expect that $10mm if the HDD is found, whether or not the BTC is recoverable. They already did their part.", "They'd probably contact the owner to get a reward?", "Ah yes, the eternal dichotomy...", "There's an 80,000 Bitcoin Wallet worth 5Billion. People assume it's Satoshis. If he tried to liquidate it most assume Bitcoin would have a huge recession.\n\nAnd it's not like you can just go to an exchange and cash it all out at once, so even if you tried to cash out 1 million of it, people would notice and realize this liquidation is happening.", "I lost one of my white pixel buds in an attic full of white blown in fiberglass insulation before. I spent 30 minutes digging through the crap until I finally found it. The customer even felt really bad for me. \n\nThat was the last time I put the slick round case in my shirt pocket where it could just slip right out, because it was also the third time I lost either an earbud or the whole case in that way in a crawlspace or attic.", "Funny, a fart in the wind is how I describe NFTs.", "Magnets don't damage hard drives. That's floppy disks and tape drives people always mix that up with. While HDDs do technically use magnetism as a storage mechanic, it's on a different order of magnitude from magnetic film. For instance, HDDs use powerful neodymium magnets inside the shielded case to support the read/write heads right next to the platters. A little magnetism outside that shielded case has nothing on those.", "I'd sell 90% or something, see if the remaining 35 million becomes more? Not like 315 million won't already set him for life", "Dude same. My lil Shih Tzu cheeked it in the dark. I was searching with my phone light for like 20 minutes in the grass and dirt. Gave up, got home and he spit it out on the floor to eat his biscuit.", "Plot twist: someone already found it, formatted it, and is using it as a porn drive.", "This is false. We don't know the state of the drive.\n\nYou would be surprised what professionals can pull. Data can almost certainly be salvaged.", "Ah, gotcha, so no more crypto coins will ever be produced, and Bitcoin is the only crypto coin on the market. Plus, Bitcoin has always existed as a natural resource. Those 21 million bitcoins weren’t originally fabricated at all.", "“Food”", "Which is like half a trillion USD based on bitcoin’s current market cap.", "Some tech bro venture capitalist will do it. Tweet at Elon or something lol.", "When the main point the other person is making is entirely incoherent, the only response that can be made is pointing out their incoherency.\n\nEdit: if I was nitpicking grammar, I would have included the sentence preceding the one I quoted. But the preceding sentence can obviously be understood as “inflation protected”.", "Well here’s how I’d look at it. Let’s say he’s offering a 50/50 split, the upside is 175m, if I were to guess there was a 1% chance to find it (which seems optimistic) then the EV is 1.75m. For a risky 1% investment I’d want at least 40% risk premium, which means I’d only be willing to spend $1m to search for it.\n\n$1M can fund a crew for a long time though… and I can potentially negotiate a bigger cut", "Yes they do, infact that's one of the approved ways to dispose of a drive. A degausser. \n\nWhich is a giant, fuck off, electromagnet.", "Random side question: how do I go about recovering 2 HDD that won't spin up? Took them to a local data recovery/pc repair shop and the guy said he couldn't do anything.\n\n1 is a 2tb secondary drive (had 3 going, one windows 7 hdd, and two data storage) that stopped spinning up about a year ago, bios would detect it's sata connect but on start up the PC couldn't communicate with it.\n\n2 is (or was) my main 1tb window 7 hdd. Shut the computer off one night, and turned back on the next day to get a blue error screen immediately on start up...I forget what it was exactly but some kind of critical window installation error.\n\nThe recovery guy said neither platter would spin up to attempt recover and their was nothing he could do.\n\nFriend of mine suggested getting the same exact model HDDs (they're both western digital, just different storage size) and try switching internals.", "Keys to what? Nobody said the hard drive is encrypted.\n\nEdit: Not sure why the downvotes. You don't need keys to find whatever info he's looking for (e.g., Bitcoin private keys, wallet passwords, etc.) unless the disk is itself encrypted.", "Do people not do backups for important data these days?\n\nOur companies used to back up important files and send them to another site, in case our main building burned down. Several times we had to retrieve that data when something horrible happened to our main computer.", "Of course he's doing that. Who wouldn't go searching through a landfill if it contained a hard drive that's more than 8 times as valuable as the estimated value of all the money in the world?", "\"but it was really an abscessed tooth that I had ignored for too long\", more like \"my tooth hurt like I was dying and there was nothing I could do about it either way so I just died.\"", "Just try explaining it to your parents. Basically the same thing", "Many ancient people would have gone to these lengths just to get their next meal. I'm sure they'd see no problem with doing it to become, essentially, a king overnight.", "After a decade of searching and burning through all his resources, the man finds his hard drive, in nearly perfect condition, preserved by the layers of sludge and filth that had encased it. In a spell of pure ecstasy, he phones his friends and family to meet him at his lordly estate, his grime-covered hands nervously fidget with the key in the ignition. The filth of a hundred years now polishes the fine leather of his Bentley as he races towards home like a man possessed. \n\nHe hurries toward the front door of his home with a tightly clenched fist wrapped around an old hard drive, raised in victory, triumph, and glory. The man is welcomed by family and friends as he deliberately makes his way to the living room table and lays the drive down with a stately 'thud.' He pops the cork on his finest bottle of champagne, and with the greatest sense of relief he had ever known, sits down to take a well-deserved rest. He raises his glass and proposes a toast. \"To hard work and never giving up!\"\n\nHe turns on the news in an attempt to re-align himself with reality and is shocked by the headline that greets him: \"Crypto crashes! Gamers rejoice!\"\n\nThe man's fortune is now worth about whatever this old, sludge-covered drive is worth. In an attempt to find closure, he takes the drive in hand and heads back to the landfill. \"Time to lay this memory to rest...\" He says and throws the drive as far as he can. It lands with a loud \"clank!\"\n\nThis sounds much different than the pillowy sludge he had sifted through for the past several months. What could this be? The man looks and beholds that the landfill has now doubled in size and the exposed waste now consists of nothing but graphics cards.", "Yes but the magnets pulling the platters together while they’re spinning is what ruins them", "People said the same thing in 2014", "bitcoin is inflation protection? lmao", "He hasn't got $1M. He's broke", "I lost mine last week at a hostel.", "Depends on the county/area. Mine doesn't. It's all bulldozers and dumptrucks.", "Well they did succeed in finding those Atari ET games in a landfill after much more time had passed, so maybe there's hope here!", "Okay well maybe you will be able to explain what “It benefits the unbanked as evident from El Salvador” means?", "And it's up 163% compared to this day last year.", "You can use it as a hedge against USD inflation. Same way you can use gold", "A bitcoin private key is 256 bits. A standard smartphone picture is about 16 million bits. The likelihood of recovering the hard drive, successfully reading the data, and identifying the key only to find at that point that a bit is missing is super low.", "Russ Hanneman ?", "Well, they are all unique.", "I bet it is. HDDs are surprisingly durable.", "Yeah but Bitcoins are as valuable as the market trusts them. If everyone starts selling them it'll be an unregulated black Tuesday.\nSomeone will be holding the buck at the end of the day. The idea they were ever going to be a common currency is long gone. \n\nYou might as well try to buy with Gold. Gold at least has value in circuitry, jewelry and chemistry. Bitcoins are just meaningless numbers.", "And the poor devil is working his fingers to the bone sifting through the literal detritis of consumerism in a landfill in the hopes he can find this intangible wealth and never have to work again. Late. Stage. Capitalism.", "I'm not a crypto fanboy, but that's never happening. It's already a religion for some people. It's never ever gonna lose that much value.", "I think this is a symptom of American capitalism and worship of money. Money should be a tool to live our lives, nothing more. But instead it governs every aspect of our lives and eats away at our happiness. How much would $350m actually improve the average person's life? Maybe it would even make it worse. Like those people that win the lottery and end up bankrupt with no friends.", "How about vs. this time last year?", "10 million spent on maybe recovering 350 million. \n\nIf they find the drive, but it cannot be read, then that 10 million was sunk for nothing.", "Well first it is a currency, and thats what it was designed to be. Now its more like gold, than a currency. but in the crypto world the currencys are gonna be the only ones to survive", "anything involving money and loss is late-stage capitalism on reddit", "There are literally fairly strong permanent magnets right inside hard drives, but depending on the type of HDD (usually 2.5\" drives), the platters can shatter, like glass.", "Yeah that’s why I said “If he offered a 50/50 split”", "“Every single coin is affected by Bitcoin”. This is simply not true. It may be one of the biggest, but it certainly doesn’t affect the entire market. And even if every new serious crypto has a market cap, you’re still creating new currencies with no real value. You have to be completely delusional to believe that Cryptocurrency as a whole has absolutely no effect on inflation.", "Homie you can trade it for goods and services and is legal tender on el Salvador, its by definition a currency", "Re-read that comment.", "Yeah, what a waste, what if it's only worth 35 million instead of 350? Might as well just throw it back in the landfill.", "Shit, I don't even throw away old hard drives, and believe me, mine are all worthless.", "Citation required for that one. There's no way we can reliably know if keys were lost or the coins just aren't being used.", "Maybe he always wanted to be a treasure hunter and this was his best chance?", "Ok, have fun homie.", "And it's down 25% from half a year ago.\n\nDoesn't seem like a very stable currency.", ">every serious coin has a cap\n\nEthereum has an elastic supply based on monetary theory which is much more serious than a 21m arbitrary cap", "It's gibberish. You re-read it.", "Or vs April last year?", "/r/datarecovery\n\nA lot of the shops you see that do data recovery just hook your shit up with an adapter and run recovery software. They aren't doing any actual data recovery, just troubleshooting. So when they encounter a disk that won't spin or has clear physical damage, they'll just send you on your way because they can't do any more than you could.\n\nActual high level data recovery, the kind that takes professional know-how, is going to be expensive and probably involve shipping your disk to them. Sometime you're talking forensic level shit like they use to bust some creep who tried to destroy his hard drives with kid stuff on them.", "The platters on a spinning disk drive are quite safe and easily placed on a new spindle (if you’ve have the equipment). \n\nAs one of the more dense objects in the trash everything else is generally going to be compacted around it.", "If they can find the lost copies of E.T., they can find a hard drive", "That's not how I imagined Bitcoin mining.", "I believe you can claim something from the MtGox thing, Google it, there's a court hearing or something", "Ladies and Gentleman... the currency of the future.", "Who is gonna pay for the work NOW?\n\nWhere's the money? Who?", "This scenario is playing out from the investor's perspective", "> creating a new cryptocoin every day\n\nNobody really gives a damn about 99.9% of those, there is reason why the team \"shitcoins\" exists.", "I remember reading this story a few years ago when the drive was worth something like £80k. I feel for him. I very nearly bought about 100BTC when they where a few dollars, but don't regret it at all. I know for a fact I would have lost the drive, forgotten the password, had my wallet stolen, or some combination of the above.", "Well yeah, but you came away from it thinking dude was investing in himself…", "If everyone like you hadn't spent the coins like currency this way, they would have 0 value and no one would care. So depending on your opinion of crypto in general, people have you to thank or to blame for the success of Bitcoin.", "What investor? There isn't one. Nobodys interested . It's shit.", "Meanwhile any number of reputable financial institutions are willing to write a 30-year note at 2.6% fixed, the price of gold is back up to around its record high set nine years ago, and I can buy a contract for a barrel of oil in 2030 for about $60.\n\nWhat happens to they crypto market as miners continue to saturate the market with more and more instruments? Are you at all concerned that they're being pushed on us commoners like mortgage refis were back before the 2008 crash? I mean, the same guy who narrated Inside Job now appears in commercials inferring that you're a youthful feline if you don't have any crypto in your portfolio.", "there's a person i used to work with who had a hardware wallet (early stage trezor type of thing) that locked out the user after like 10 failed attempts. there was approx 1,300 BTC on this and he forgot his password. they deconstructed the wallet and flew in a team of the actual engineers who built the hardware wallet and they could not bypass it. he let it go emotionally and was very successful independently of that.", "The opposite of approve is reject, not disprove.", "I dropped an airpod on an active train line, had to get a pickup stick from a guard to collect it, so trust me, I can fully empathise.", "I also threw away a harddrive that had 8 BTC on it. \n\nStill pissed about it to this day.", "Who's the investor?! It's a stupid idea. What idiot would fund this?\n\nWho would be stupid enough?", "What does El Salvador have to do with anything? Just because the sentence can be understood doesn’t mean it makes sense. What did El Salvador prove? What does not having access to banks have to do with crypto driving inflation? Without further elaboration, it’s still incomprehensible.", "This is why I’m never selling my beanie babies. So long as I never sell them, they’re worth millions.", "Also even if it’s a couple of bits off it would be to easy to fix or guess (by computer of course).", "I'm not the least bit savvy about this new fangled lucre, but I am pretty sure you need \"keys\" to access any bitcoin. Like maybe you can see that it is there and how much there is, but without the passcode you can't access any of it.", ">This is no different than diamonds, gold or any other commodity or even service\n\nCompletely wrong - gold and diamonds have industrial and ornamental value to us. Separated from a store of value, they have intrinsic value themselves which makes them valuable. Same as services.\n\nBitcoin, separated from being a store of value, has no intrinsic value itself. There is no reason to \"have\" it, as a bitcoin itself is intangible.", "How many times am I going to see this post? Asking for a friend.", "Don't worry- seeing there's a finite amount of bitcoin anyway, it was always going to be deflationary in nature.", "This story is at least five years old and the local council have already told him they will not allow him access to the site as it hazardous to the environment to disturb the landfill.", "That's a good tip, but it wasn't likely to help last night. I lost it among a good amount of fallen leaves. I decided to wait until morning to find it after searching with a flashlight. I did find it after about 20 minutes of searching this morning.", "not if you're absolutely sure to spend $10, but still have for example only 0.01% chance to find the $350", "> easily placed on a new spindle (if you’ve have the equipment). \n\nYou're a fool.\n\nThe equipment costs a lot of money.", "What a dumb statement.", "the most upsetting thing about this story is the fact he lives in Newport", "I hope he finds it.", "Hey, so I just calculated this really big number that was really hard to figure out and it depended on the results of a bunch of other really hard calculations that other people did to find other big numbers. \n\nAnd so since you can trace the calculations all the way back, I am going to say that I own that number now. If you want it from me, you’ll have to pay me a lot of money. And only then will you get a chance to look at the number and see if I told you the truth about calculating it.", "I assumed it was 99%.", "I mean gold has other uses, unlike bitcoin that does nothing besides waste energy and making a bunch of gullible poor people give all their money to people that had more resources to grift said gullible people out of money. \n\n&#x200B;\n\n>It is valuable because no one can take it from you if you own the keys, and no one can lock you out of your own account.\n\nThen how did the FBI get 2.3 million back for the [Colonial pipeline ransom](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/07/us-recovers-some-of-the-money-paid-in-the-colonial-pipeline-ransom-officials-say.html)?", "If you have most of the bits it wouldnt take long. If you're missing 64 bits it can be done in days or a few years depending how much compute time you want to pay for.", "I'm convinced there is no many alive that can help my dumb brain understand how Bitcoin works and just how in the fuck it's worth something.", "Sometimes. Depends on a lot of factors. Source: used to do forensics and IR and have recovered a lot of hard drives.", "Well a few years ago I spent a week trying to recover some bitcoins from my old and broken hd, which I eventually managed to recover.", "I can somewhat agree there, which is why I don't own any Bitcoin. There are other digital assets that actually serve a purpose in decentralized, blockchain-based ecosystems. \n\nThat said, there is value in BTC in that it's a highly decentralized and secure digital asset, with fixed and predictable tokenomics. Its decentralized nature makes it so that it's impossible to shut.\n\nThat in itself gives BTC value. It exists, and will continue to exist. The only thing that can stop that is the destruction of every computer on earth.", "> I think it would be worse to find it destroyed and unusable after the effort. \n\nYou think this would be worse than not to find it at all???", "Google “hypothetical”.\n\nAnd stop taking Reddit so painfully literally you silly asshole.", "Well if all locals at current location would cash out their dollar/euro’s etc. there wouldn’t be enough cash for 5% of them….in fact it would be the same with any asset on the regular financial system", "Is this the same guy who has financial backing from a major investment firm (i.e they're funding his search for a % if the drive is found) AND he's pinpointed the (supposed) exact place the drive should be based on the time it was discarded? If so, the guy's determined. Last I heard the local authority were flat out refusing his request (Despite him offering them £££ if he found it). Sorry, that was a lot of brackets.", "Shes so shocked they won't let him dig through 8 years worth of layered trash to find a indiscriminate trash bag that may have a hard-drive. At least with the ET NES Cartridges they knew the approximate location and it was 700,000 cartridges not just one. And that was still a big challenge.", "There were like 3.5 million of them though, compared to 1 hard drive.", "I do that at work when I lose small nuts and bolts", "LOL, why are you so angry? You've responded angrily at other people saying you can recover data from damaged hardrives. What's going on? Who hurt you?", "No RUSS HANNEMAN reference? Really? \nI guess that dude just got kicked out if the Three Commas Club.", "Or sold those 100 btc@2/3 dollars for 6 dollars and been delighted for doubling your money.\n\nAnd then seeing the price nowadays. Thats worse than not having owned it at all i think", "This isn't hypothetical. It's not even close to hypothetical. It's absurd. You fucking tool.", "After losing two pairs of Airpods and a pair of Galaxy Buds, i've decided that i'm content with bulky headphones.", "... the private keys are on the hard drive.", "The keys or seed phrase will be what's on the HDD, the wallet is stored on the blockchain. If you have that info you can access your wallet from anywhere. \n\nFor example, I keep crypto on a ledger nano s which is a hardware wallet. I could l lose my wallet in, say, a boating accident but I'll still be able to access my crypto as I have my seed phrase backed up.", "The keys are what are on the drive", "yeah but rent's due.", "Well if they are anything like me during the early days of bitcoin they are in a folder on the same hard drive titled \"Dont throw this away you idiot\"", "How do you cash out....cash?", "lol inflation is out of control. Dear lord. Tell me you didn't live thru the 70s without telling me.", "Ever heard of ATM s or registers in a bank office?", "I'm not with it and don't understand bitcoin. So it's literal media or something like a picture if you don't have it \"backed up\" it's just gone? I guess I always assumed it's like your PayPal account except instead of USD it'd be bitcoin...", "So, do you just off yourself after this search is over?\n\nI'm joking (kinda)", "Tech tip: with a still paired AirPod, you can go to your Find My app and force it to play a loud alarm, even if it’s in standby (doesn’t recognize being inside an ear).", "For 300 million dollars, I'm sure he could figure something out", "They've got a massive team involved using some pretty high tech stuff and they've been able to narrow down its location to particular plot since dumps have to track where trash from a certain date is located.", "I know this guy, he lives in my city. Unfortunately in our social circle it's well understood that this has caused him some major mental health issues. Poor guy.", "This! The odds of finding it are well below 2.857%, and then it still be readable. It's not worth the time, cost, impacts to gamble.", "Mom?", "How much can ya get for some Dutch tulips now? How about a beanie Baby?", "Lol, that's what we call Q-tips here. I couldn't understand why you would be upset about this until I read a few responses and it clicked for me.", "I'd say that's being super optimistic.", "This is the actual footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygZ10y\\_R1qQ", "I didn’t live through the 70s.", "Literally mining to unearth the fruits of virtual mining. It's almost r/aboringdystopia but it's too hilarious.", "In Heaven you get a printout of your life stats including exactly how you died. It's in the welcome basket next to the honeydew.", "He must have given up by now this story is a few years old.", "Meanwhile the maid pulled it from the trash and gave it to her son.... who formatted it to play Minecraft and Roblox", "I had about $5 of bitcoin a few years ago, lost my private key. worth about $2-5K now.", "Yeah because it’s not like US dollars have ever been buried and forgotten about before.", "I work in the business, landfills are heavily regulated and built in parcels of a bigger whole over time. Randomly digging around a site can open a world of hurt regulatory wise to the owner of that landfill.", "With treasures you at least get a map with a big red x on it.", "No joke. Not sure I could survive a mistake like this. It would literally make me insane.", "What if they only wanted 1 copy of ET though", "Never tell me the odds", "This is the most Onion-News looking report that's not actually Onion News.", "The private keys are what's on the hard drive. Looking at a wallet can be done with the public key, which is revealed to anyone who looks after you send your first transaction from an account.\n\nAccounts aren't necessarily people though, which is how anonimity is kept.", "He's probably that guy you get on the phone when you call for tech support and actually know what you're doing.", "What's fucked is using bitcoins for transactions is the very reason they were created. Not holding onto them for investment purposes, like everyone seems to be doing now.\n\nIf no one is using bitcoins, it's madenning that they even have value.", "there's now a variety of storage options, what you're describing is now an option. in the early days of bitcoin I believe it was all offline storage that you put in your own storage. \n\nprobably early days since he has a bunch of coins and didn't think it was worth much so he tossed it.\n\nnot an expert but that's my general understanding", "Right but the one copy is worth 350 million so it should be easier to find.", "Great; more resources being used up to find something that has no intrinsic value.", "Oof, I wonder if that data is recoverable even if he finds it", ">\"What happens to they crypto market as miners continue to saturate the market with more and more instruments\"\n\nWhat do you mean by this?\n\n>\"Are you at all concerned that they're being pushed on us commoners like mortgage refis were back before the 2008 crash?\"\n\nNot really, because owning digital assets is not the same as owning a loan... There's nothing to pay back. Plus, no one is \"pushing it on you\", if anything, it's the opposite. Mainstream opinions are generally negative to plain unaware of their existence and banks and other financial institutions are warning people against digital assets (in part because they're in direct competition with their centuries old business model).\n\nYour perspective is the mainstream one. Your mindset is exactly what traditional financial institutions and most politicians are pushing for. I'd say that it's wiser to do the opposite of what they want you to do.", "Same. I used to buy computer parts and drugs with Bitcoin back in the day. I would be a multimillionaire if I had saved them. I hate it all though.", "I did. I never once made a remark regarding the grammar of the original comment. I highlighted the part that made no sense as an invitation to further elaboration. And if you look at all the rest of my comments, none of them have to do with grammar either. The only person that ever even mentioned grammar was you.", "fucking honeydew. of course.", "For the United States there isn’t enough cash in existence to actually cover all of the deposits accounts. In fact this is the entire reason the FDIC insurance exists for accounts.", "You're talking about a bank run then? Those have happened in the past, banks don't have enough cash on hand for that but it's not a problem to get it delivered from the federal reserve.\nThe thing is money in your bank account is already \"cash\". There's no need to \"cash it out\" to paper currency to use, you can just spend it as is with a debit card or check. Bitcoin is different though, it's not a currency, you can't spend it as it is, you have to sell it for currency which you can then use to buy stuff. If there is a crash and people start running for the exits it could get ugly.", "Sure but how much has shifted and settled since then?", "So folks know the wallet exists and what is in it, but can't access because no keys? I get it I think. Thanks.", "its probably fked anyway by now because of the rain and garbage juice.", "> ... Howards offered his local town tens of millions of dollars.\n\nI was all onboard until I realized this was a millionaire trying to dig up his lost millions. So this guy is already filthy fucking rich, why can't he be just be happy with the literal fortune he's got?\n\nEdit: [Context I was missing.](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/retibr/man_searching_landfill_for_discarded_hard_drive/hoa9ys6/)", "FFFUUUUUUUUUCCCKK!!!!!\n\n-This guy's internal dialog 24/7", "Yeah and you said \"1m can fund a crew\" which isn't happening since that 1m doesn't exist. No crew is working all day digging trash for $0.\nSource: real life where no one is helping him", "That, or no one wanting or accepting crypto anymore.. Like Ron White's bit about trying to buy a burrito with $50 worth of beer coopins.", "is this the same guy i grew up hearing about or is this a different guy? if it’s the same guy, actually crazy he’s spent this long looking for it", "and yet, so much fuss over a silly currency that can’t even play an mp3.", "This is the most American shit\n\n\"Man wastes human labor resources on a scavenger hunt in a literal garbage mountain for a (likely broken) hard drive containing millions of dollars worth of digital money\"\n\nBurn it all down", "Who is going to pay for the work to find it? The enormous amount of work?\n\nJust random people digging around a live working landfill site?", "Think about it like this. If buying a lottery ticket gave you a 1 in 10 chance of winning $10, then if you bought 10, you’d (likely) win once and get $10 back.\n\nSo 10 tickets == $10, which means the real value of each ticket is $1.\n\nSo what’s the chance of 1) finding the drive and 2) it still being readable and 3) actually containing the bitcoin he thinks, etc?", "> Who's gonna pay for it all?\n\nHe should get with whoever is financing the Oak Island exploration.", "You forgot that unmentioned those „any other assets“, bitcoin shouldn’t be seen as currency more like an asset or for some even a resource, if everyone would want their gold/silver or else what ever it is that a bank or company gives you a certificate for that you own this and that….it would have that effect", "This is amazing. Good work", "New York City real estate speculators have entered the chat.", "Garbage juice :\|", "Not very much at all and it is all calculated. It is all very carefully measured. Some of the most accurate topo's I have been asked to do were for landfills.", "Lol you don’t even know what hypothetical means 😂", "What an idiot. Even at 1$ a bitcoin that's throwing away a 7500 dollar hard drive.", "I once searched a compacted rubbish container full of trash for 64Mb of SGI RAM that I had put in there by mistake. \n\nThis was in 1996 or so, and our CAD/CAM guys were having issues with one of their SGI Irix workstations. So the service provider sent us new RAM to test, and the Service Engineer turned up to fit the RAM. Now the delivery was 4 DIMMs, each in a foam padded box, in a larger box. The SE fitted the ram, ran a test, the CAD guys spun up Autocad/SolidWorks, and boom - crash. So not the RAM. Swap back in the old RAM, and I thought the SE put the supplied RAM sticks into his briefcase. On my way back to my office, I tossed the empty packaging into the trash compactor.\n\nA few days later, I get the support agent back on the line, and he wants his RAM back, and I have a terrible realization. I contact out maintenance manager, find out that the compactor has not been emptied since I tossed the RAM, and I get to take a ride out to the tip site in the trash truck, and start working my way through the trash from one end to the other.\n\nThe good news is I eventually found the box, the RAM was unharmed, and after a quick test in a Compaq workstation, I sent the RAM off no worse for wear.", "Says you", "You can do that with the stock market too...", "Cryptocurrencies solve certain challenges and bring utility. As they're more fleshed out and more known, more people bring their money into the crypto pool. That isn't inflation, that is a growing industry with increased adoption. The inflation that does occur, happens because fed prints dollars and these dollars flow into the stock market/crypto world.\n\nThe shitcoins with no use pumping and then crashing are some of the crypto scams, but they're a smaller part of the whole ecosystem and reducing the whole thing to it, is incredibly disingenuous and false.", "If you can prove to me “hey, I have some buried treasure here, that I will split with you 50/50 if you fund finding it” and I through my own analysis determined you’re not full of shit and that it’s in fact feasible to recover, I will fund it for a million bucks. \n\nThat is the content of what I’m saying. Salvage crews do it all the time, for projects costing far more money.\n\nReading comprehension :)", "The sludge that is created and flows through the landfill material will destroy the hard drive.", "Bahahahahaha", "I could Google and read of course but thought an ELI5 would be good. Thanks!", "So a bunch of random people? Who?", "MAN I did this so many times. EVERYTIME it happens it feels like Im losing control of my life and then worry about how my life is spiraling downhi-\n\noh theres my airpod.\n\nfuck these thingsssssss.. mmANNNN.\n\nIm going back to the wired ones.", "Right because the story is probably bullshit. If it wasn’t, I can’t imagine salvage crews not being interested in this.", "Maybe the guy who lost his bitcoins can just listen real hard for the hype and memes coming from somewhere in the trash dump.\n\nI got a pair of airpods as a gift, I know if they leave the house, Im gonna lose one or both. But they are pretty sweet, the noise cancellation is like black magic.", "You're not listening, that money is already cash. There is no need to convert it to paper currency to use it. That said, if for whatever reason people did start holding more paper currency it would not be a problem for the US Treasury to produce it. They supply paper currency as banks demand it. Converting all the electronic money in people's bank accounts into paper currency would not crash the banking system or lead to runaway inflation or something, in fact electronic money is a relatively recent invention. For millennia money was metal or paper only. On the other hand people cashing out all their bitcoin would crash the market.", "🤦🏻‍♂️", "Just so happens the big red X is over a landfill instead of a whole island", "They found all the copies of ET for Atari which people said there was a landfill of it, and was a rumor for like 45 years and they just found it like a year or two ago.", "Damn damn damnit 😞😞", "It’s not. The New Yorker just released an article on it. Feel bad for the guy, it’s prob eating up his existence", "Cryptoassets", "Left 2 high end Sony earpods on top of my car at a gas station once driving taxi.\n\nLike $150, or 10 days driving the taxi.", "Heh, not really. Price is a function of supply and demand. The finite amount deals with the supply side of the equation but there isn't anything that ensures an increase of demand for Bitcoin", "Same guy lol 😬", "Thats adorable, kiddo. Print it onto your school lunchbox.", "I know there are services that take satllite photos of every inch of earth every day. It used to be 10k a month but you could see which part of the land fill they were using back then. This was in 2015ish I was looking into it for work so he could do that but there are clearly other factors at play here.", "Lookup on youtube \"movie trailer The wallet\"", "Not much. The guy lost the hard drive in 2013 but the bitcoin was mined much earlier, pretty much when Bitcoin went online and even a crappy laptop processor could mine it by the truckloads.", "He'll never find it and he should just forget about it. If I see a hard drive in the trash I grab it...if nothing else it's a pound of metal (worth about thirty cents today). Would you bend over and pick up a quarter? That drive is gone. After 10 years in a landfill it's not recoverable even if he finds it...and I doubt it's there. It's already scrapped.\n\nI hate to shit on someone's dream but being willing to dedicate your life to digging through trash on the off change that you might get rich suggests you're not going to do anything good with the money anyway.", "There is intrinsic value - having resources to operate on the blockchain.", "Not really, it depends what stock but inflation hurts the general market because it uses USD. Bitcoin/others and commodities like gold isn't underpinned by it.", "It's a real thing called leachate.", "The files are IN the computer??", "You're mixing up inflation and deflation. If the money's worth more, that's deflation.", "I like to view Bitcoin like a gigantic table where people keep putting stacks of money. And as long as people keep putting more money onto the table, it looks like everybody is getting rich. And the game is to take your money off the table just before everybody else does. \n\nIn the end, someone always loses. Just gotta not be that person.", "Yes, if people decided to cash out all their gold it would crash the gold market. What you said is if people \"cash out their dollars/euros\" which makes no sense as those are already cash.", "Imagine he finds it and the thing is just crushed and unrecoverable.", "I like the wireless headbuds that go around your neck. Makes it easy to pop out really quick and just let it dangle. You also don't have to worry about losing one.", "i believe Russ Hanneman would be the man to call with his experience of this exact same issue.", "He bought a patch of garbage almost a decade ago. His paper is mud.", "Assuming it survived being compacted, hdds are hermetically sealed so take it to a clean room, swap the platters into a new drive and it should be good.", "Sounds less cool but it’s basically the same, like when you own stocks you own part of the company, and if you hold any token you own a part of the network (but better cuz no one can take it from you if you re not a complete moron…not even the gov.)", "Eventually there will only be one bitcoin left.", "Kroll rescued [99% data from the drive that was in the Columbia disaster](https://www.ontrack.com/en-us/blog/kroll-ontrack-space-shuttle-columbia). It flung from fucking space at ridiculous speeds down to a dried lake and sat there for six months before they got hold of it.\n\nNever underestimate data recovery pros.", "“So my choices are ‘or death’?”", "The drive will likely be unusable, however you'd be amazed what can be recovered from a hard drive.\n\nA specialist would likely remove the platters from the damaged drive and rebuild them in a working drive.\n\nI'm not an expert and there's more to it than that but... a lot more than what you'd expect can be recoverable.", "definitely nuts, throwing out an investment out like that no matter how small", "Pretty much this. Due to the volatility of Bitcoin, and how the majority of investors considered crypto over the last decade, the chances that he would have held this long are incredibly slim, unless he was already on incredibly wealthy.\n\nStill would have made a lot of money though, assuming he made it past the few thousand dollar range.", "Grab a shovel then and start digging. See you in 5 years.\n\nHave you even ever dug a hole?", "You are too dumb. Please keep this going.", "Even if he found it, what likelihood is there of getting the data back off of it? I'd at least think it would take data forensics after being through a dump and just left out like that, especially for so many years. The data can't be interpolated or anything--it has to all be there. And it likely wasn't duplicated all over the drive, so no redundant copies. \n\nWhat if he finds it, but can only get one Bitcoin off of it?", "The bitcoins are in the blockchain. The keys are on the lost HDD.", "Sound logic there! 😂", "Right back atcha Einstein", ">Well you were under the mistaken belief that it was a currency\n\nIt was an e-cash system intended for casual, low-value transactions.\n\nhttps://bitcoin.com/bitcoin.pdf", "No offense but stop nitpicking on the word cash it’s obvious what is ment by that, and I wrote „dollars/euros etc“", "Bitcoin is mostly a speculatory grift. By the time Bitcoin is deemed \"done\", Thiel and his pseudo libertarian gang will readily move on to pumping the next Bitcoin (in which they will have coincidentally invested long before).\n\nSo much for decentralisation, now it's centralised around billionaire whales.", "Nah, that scene is directly referencing this story. A lot of Silicon Valley is based on real events/ people.", "> Bitcoin would have hit 700 bucks and he would have sold ages ago \n\nThat would still have earned him over five million dollars, not exactly some chump change.", "This is the story of Uncharted 5.", "(1999) An investigation of the World War II records of Swiss banks (...) found 54,000 unclaimed accounts that may have belonged to Holocaust victims.\n\nhttps://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/investigators-find-thousands-of-unclaimed-swiss-bank-accounts", "Ooh sick burn bro you come up with that yourself?", "That is a really good point.\n\nWhat sort of dumbass dumps a working HDD *with data on it!?", "He is not allowed to search the landfill right?", "No your mom whispered it in my ear last night", "Can you not set aside a key? Like add it to another device? Gotta always back up your back ups", "Imagine if he took all the money he's invested digging for this and bought some more Bitcoin when he started searching for it...", "fair point", "...that would be a good thing. Rather than having the money in dollars that inflate, it would be in Bitcoin. Would you not want to find gold because of inflation, or be happy it was worth more dollars than before?", "Put a nail through all of the platters, and then microwave it", "Then it'll be 3.5 million times easier to find!", "Idk how it works but wouldn't the wallet be password protected?", "But most assets have a tangible worth. If I buy a car, pretty much regardless of the economy that car has some tangible worth.\n\nFrankly the speculative nature of stocks, investments and digital startups has really screwed up how people think about money imo. \n\nSo many companies that, for all intents and purposes, have no product, or rather, it has no tangible monetization. Like twitter, or youtube, or... reddit. Sure there's ads, but the money in that is cartoonishly low considering how gynormous these companies' worth are.\n\nMind you, I'm saying this as a frontend webdeveloper. I'm well aware how this works on a certain level. But it sure seems like we're dancing with ponzi schemes often.", "Nah man, retirement money. They’ll all sell someday…..", "Oh right. You're volunteering OTHER people.\n\n?\n\nWho?", "He probably knows the model and roughly what box he tossed it in.", "Lmao", "Kid stuff? ... You mean like, pictures of G.I Joes and Bouncy castles and stuff?!\n\nI'm glad they take the time to root out such evil!", "Those apps just convert Bitcoin to cash and then complete the transaction. LN and Chivo are 2nd layer solutions, you're not really spending Bitcoin.", "Wow, somehow even less original than your first milquetoast effort.", "Meanwhile, I found this metal thingydo on the streets and when I plug it in it asks for a key to open it", "Melt it! \n \nI've also heard that some of the assumptions about being able to recover substantial data after it has been overwritten is pretty bogus so I assume just writing zeros and/or one of the data wipe tools would be fine.", "Look in the mirror Einstein", "Thanks pantywaist. Kiss your mom for me.", "Going up in value is \"a bad thing\". That means you're incentivized to hold, instead of spending. You know what increases job numbers, wages, business revenue and investments (whether speculative or R&D)? Money being spent.\n\nIf people don't want to buy something today because it may \"cost less\" (relative to the value of their money) tomorrow, then that's bad.\n\nGovernments deliberately make their money slightly inflationary (ie worth less) every year to incentivize spending in growth, research, building the business. Cause stuffing money in your mattress will make it less valuable, not more, so better spend it. Thus stimulating the economy and making \"stuff\" happen.", "Well the US stock market uses USD but there are several other markets that don't. Also the US market can hedge from USD as you are invested in an asset that will rise with the tide, it would not protect you from a deflationary currency though. \n \nYou are not wrong that gold is good for it but both commodities and the market are listed within [Investopedia's article on this.](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/081315/9-top-assets-protection-against-inflation.asp)", "I would turn into Sméagol from Lord of The Rings going crazy trying to find it.", "Which is a delicacy in some parts of the world.", ">but there isn't anything that ensures an increase of demand for Bitcoin \n\nCapitalism??\n\nSorry, I'm only talking about bitcoin as though it were to replace money.", "Imagine someone found it, found it functional so he wiped it, and now uses it every day unknowing, Sheesh,", "> like a ~~fart~~ turd... in the wind.", "Aren't BTC encrypted as a result of being created? They would need some type of key. Feel free to correct me, anyone.", "Doesnt work for android unfortunately.. (The only apply product i like is their headphones.).", "Mentally he would probably be better off. The unknown is often more painful than the definitive", "Someone gave me 2/3 of a bitcoin a while back but I lost it. I think one bitcoin is now $58,000. Oh well.", "It ended up in a recycling center and it was melted down for new metal", "I have ~$500 in bitcoin on an old computer, I found the password for my wallet a couple of weeks ago. I hope the computer starts, it's was last turned on in 2016. It was originally ~$10 on bitcoin somone gave me on reddit for a comment I made in August 2014, half went on a phone app, so $5 was left on the computer, what's that in 2021 prices is now?", "It's not clear at all what you meant. Your comment as written makes no sense and shows a lack of understanding of the difference between cash and assets, which shouldn't be surprising coming from a crypto proponent.\n\nBitcoin is not cash and a run on Bitcoin would crash the market. Money in your bank account is cash, and a bank run will not crash the market. All you're doing is converting existing cash from electronic currency to physical currency. No transaction has taken place that would affect markets.", "Louis Rossman could do it.", "The wallet is encrypted and that's where the token is stored.", "Ha ha fukkin ha", "Just so you know, it’s really obvious - I mean from the first comment I replied to, but more and more as you’re replying - that you’re a young, naive kid. So naturally I don’t give a shit what you think or say, but neither will anyone else you try to interact with on here. \n\nWind your fucking neck in, observe how real people interact, and maybe you’ll get more than just shit out of this site.", "That was a single pit full of nothing but copies of ET.\n\nThis would be more akin to if each copy of ET had a unique serial number, and he was trying to specifically find serial number 2781542.", "Thanks for using 500 words to explain how little you care", "If it's a normal HD the platters could be saved and transplanted into another drive of the same make/model. It's why some government agencies have to grind them down to dust.", "What is an Irish traveler type ?", "Are there really people out there that just toss hard drives in the trash?", "They did this on silicon valley too, was funny.", "It's dumb to even ponder. In 2012 I was begging my parents for about $3k to spend on BTC and they turned me down. If I had held on to those until now I would have been a made man. But in reality my 18 year old dumbass would have probably panic sold at $200 and regretted that EVEN more than never having had any in the first place lol.", "I would be upset", "In the case of the data being worth ~$350000000 they'll definitely be doing this, man imagine screwing it up though", ">\tThere is no way that hard drive is read-able\n\nHard drives are weird, and I’ve managed to recover unrecoverable data when I’ve devoted literal weeks to doing so.", "They're not though. They need a vent so that when they heat up, the gasses inside can expand and exit the enclosure.", "I had the option to buy 100 dollars worth of Bitcoin in 2010.\n\n\nI am sad about it every damn day.", "Really there isnt that much more to it. Take out the platters, clean them, put them in a similar model HDD and then run some recovery software.", "That's similar to an analysis I read about on some stock platform. The people who had the highest gains over a long period of time were either dead or lost their account info.", "You say “cheeked it” and I was like oh wow, the dog put the earbud in his asshole?", "Things cost more because money is worth less.you got there.", "The Philippines, probably", "> several other markets that don't \n\nSame theory applies to any fiat that's not USD. A lot of them are pegged on USD, and if they're not the USD still affects the global economy. \n\nThere are many things to use as a hedge other than cryptocurrencies, but that commenter asked about Bitcoin so I gave an easy answer", "He's also becoming a victim of the time-sunk cost fallacy. The more time he spends on this the more he needs to commit. He'd probably kill himself if he just gave up. The dreams of being 1/3rd of a billionaire would just torment his middle class self for an eternity.", "🎶Diggin' through the trash, for my lost hopes\n\n\nSippin' on garbage juice, can't slack\n\n\nWith my mind on my money\nand my money in the trash🎶", "It’s a better chance of a payoff than those guys treasure hunting oak island.", "it's 100% readable", "> \"the crypto inside that drive\"\n\nNo. Cryptocurrency doesn't live inside a hard drive. Now if the writer meant \"crypto\" as an abbreviation of \"cryptographic key\", then perfect.", "i mean it was literally created to be spent. just because we collectively perverted that intention years later doesn’t mean it was wrong to spend it. if no one had ever spent it no one would even care about it now.", "“I have got an international hedge fund who are willing to put up anywhere between £2.5m to £3.5m to do a professional search operation of the landfill,” Mr Howells told Wales Online.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n[https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/bitcoin-landfill-newport-james-howells-19622781](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bitcoin-hard-drive-landfill-newport-council-wales-james-howells-b1787863.html)", "He’s looking for the key to his wallet so it’s a very small part of the disk drive. Apparently he’d gotten assurance that it would be feasibly accessible from one of the premier data recovery companies that worked on crashed space shuttle hardware.", "If the disks aren't just completely crushed, yeah they'd probably be able to recover at least a decent amount of the bits required for the information, which is pretty freaking dope. That's why if you ever throw out a hard drive with any type of personal info on it, you definitely need to use a hard drive wiper once or twice to clear the info. Otherwise if you just \"delete\" the stuff, the bits are still there, just the sectors are marked as \"free\" which actually makes it easier for people to find your info as they can just check for free sectors and see if the bits display actual information. A wiper randomizes the bits so the data is unreadable usually.", "I'd suggest the chance of payoff is around zero.", "It would also be pretty easy for the company (or an employee) doing the recovery to just steal the bitcoin.\n\n\"Sorry bro, we couldn't recover your data\".", "The BTC are not on that hard drive, they are in the block chain. The key is precisely what he lost, and is on that hard drive. If someone else finds it and knows what they're doing, they will get the BTC.", "Same, but I'm sure I would have sold it when it hit $200, or $500 or $1000 or $2000. 0% chance I'd have even a single coin left anywhere near $10k let alone $60k.", "Math checks out.", "Exactly, how do they think sunken ships etc get found and recovered? Very basic risk analysis to figure out if its even viable, and with the sheet amount of money on the hard drive it probably is. I wouldn't invest more than a million into it assuming a 50/50 split if found though.", "You probably would have sold it a long time ago thinking you made a great profit, and then still be kicking yourself because you sold it.", "What would that be today? Regret.", "Its an IRL One Piece", "Thats nowhere near enough.", "Even if it WAS readable, it's not his drive any more. He threw it away. It's the dumps now. It does surprise me though that the dump isn't searching on its own for $350m.", "Technically you could have bought stocks in google, apple, facebook or the tons upon tons of companys that went under, its a gamble you could have never expected it to payoff.", "That is a logical fallacy though. Even if you had bought it, you likely would have also sold it long ago.", "You can be sad about it, but keep in mind that 99% of people would have sold it when the value hit $500, or $1000.", "Last time I heard that it was at the sperm donors office 🙅", "Diamond Hands!!!!\n\nThat is working awesome for GME especially for those that bought at 300!!!!", "[Apparently magnets don't work anymore.](https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=hard-drive-destruction) (They don't wipe the drive, you still shouldn't put a magnet near a running hard drive)\nBasically you need to physically destroy it by shredding/using a drill press/smashing into very fine pieces", "A friend of mine likes to tell this story of how he was paid in Bitcoin for some freelance work he did back in the day. I believe he was paid 40ish BTC (was worth around $500 at the time), which he then used to buy an Xbox 360 and a Japanese copy of Halo 3. Today it would be worth like $200k or something", "The drive is likely password protected too, so it’s not that simple.", "The only lack of understand is coming right from you, and being pro crypto doesn’t mean I believe in it only, I’m well aware of how our financial system works what the difference is between several financial services and different assets and how they work. My point with you is just that you are now assuming shit by my point of view smearing me with „crypto proponent“ like it’s the most evil shit ever.\nMy comments was clear, didn’t want to write an essay mention all form of MONEY and just held it short by using 2 forms of currency and putting an ETC. behind it.", "Haha more comments should be like this", "The password (private key) is what they're looking for. If someone found the hard drive and kept it, they could cash it in. However, if the guy knows the address (public key), he'd be able to see that the Bitcoin was moved and would have a lot of questions for everyone working on finding the drive.", "Garbage juice has only emboldened the hard drive effectively doubling the bitcoins value. Checkmate liberals!", "At 350 million, he can put them into Defi yield farms, earn at least 10%+ APY and retire comfortably while letting the initial capital grow for the next generation.", "This same dude has been looking for this thing for years. He’ll never find it.", "modern day buried treasure. hes gonna be the crazy pirate telling stories at the pub when he is too old and tired of digging.", "Someone tipped me 0.009 Bitcoin in September of 2018. I didn't feel like creating a wallet just to claim $5 worth of difficult-to-spend money, so I let the tip lapse and it returned to the sender.\n\nThat's worth $500 now. I think that user is still active on reddit. I sometimes wonder about asking them if whatever helpful comment I posted was really worth $500.\n\nEdit: On closer inspection, it was 0.009 Bitcoin Cash, which is worth $4 now. Oopsie.", "It pretty much did drive him insane. He lost his security clearance after his story started getting broadcast on the news, which caused him to lose his job. Then he lost his wife, who took his kid.\n\nSource: he used to work for the same company I worked for. I never knew him, but knew a lot of people who had worked with him.", "Nothing better than leachate-marinated balut", "40 bitcoin is worth about 2.4 million right now", "Switching internals is what data recovery places do to fix hardware issues (or did, when I briefly did this 10 years ago).\n\nHD manufacturers change their shit all the time though; the same model of drive can have very different internals so you need just the right donor drive and the info on exactly what works with what may not be easy to come by. There is a whole market for very specific iterations of drives. Sometimes there's firmware you need to copy over too, maybe by moving a chip.\n\nIf it's the platter motor that's fucked that's super hard, because you need special tools to keep the platters aligned while you transfer them to a new motor. Swapping heads can* be done without specialist tools, but you will fuck it up the first few times. You still really should have a clean room if you're opening a drive. Swapping the board is fairly straightforward, if you have exactly the right one and know which flash chip to swap over.\n\nI can't think of many instances where it's worth the time and money and risk to try and fix yourself, but not worth what a data recovery place would charge.", "> Who's gonna pay for it all? He hasn't got a penny. He's offering a cut of the find.\n\nBut that's the whole point, right?\n\nSuppose he's offering a £100 million payment if the bitcoins are retrieved. And suppose you predict a 20% chance of the search operation being successful. Then logically, a £10 million investment in searching for it is a good bet. So long as you're rich enough to invest that much in a high-risk, high-reward gamble.", "> A wiper randomizes the bits so the data is unreadable usually.\n\nI thought they just wrote all 0's to every bit?", "> On 22 May 2010, Laszlo Hanyecz made the first real-world transaction by buying two pizzas in Jacksonville, Florida, for 10,000 BTC, an amount that would surpass $600 million if held in April 2021.\n\nSo, somewhere in the vicinity of $6 billion? Good luck trying to cash that out, though.", "I imagine a future where people deliberately lock Bitcoin away in smart contracts to make people work more productively. Look at what lengths this guy is going to find his lost Bitcoin. Imagine if people deliberately locked Bitcoin away to pay them out to people who build mega constructs that take decades to build.", "It's just money though. You can always make more money. It's not like losing a loved one where you can't get them back.", "Me, extremely happy with $4,000 in my bank account and a mortgage:", "I’ve easily spent over 5 bitcoin buying uhhh stuff on the internet. Stuff whose value definitely is nowhere close to equal to $300,000. But I never would’ve bought that much bitcoin if I wasn’t using it so I technically would’ve lost out anyway I guess?", "Call in the guys from \"Oak Island\" they could get 30 seasons out of this story.", "Yeah a data recovery company could salvage data from even fire damaged burned drives LTT did some videos about it.\n\n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUsoangGFs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUsoangGFs)", "the massive cost to recover the data on the drive. there is a leachate in the dump to break stuff down that's why they generate natural gas after they cap the land fill.\n\nthere could be a chance it's sealed and layered up enough but, they also smash everything down too.\n\na hard core drive recovery in the past has costed a few to several grand.", "When I first saw it, bitcoin was worth about $3 and the only people using it were people using it on the dark web for sektchy transactions. I still have this old screenshot of the silk road that just looks would look insane today to people who never knew about that stuff.", "I'll just take the gutter oil, I'm a simple man", "that's not cash though (save for El Salvador if they implement)\n\nIt is an equity that needs to be converted into cash first. No different than having a stock or bond. I can't trade a share of Apple for a bag of groceries . \n\nI first need to convert the stock to cash using an intermediary, pay the associated costs and then use the cash\n\nEven if you are at a Bitcoin ATM the above transaction happens", "I sold 4 bitcoin to buy a laptop like 5ish years ago. Laptop doesn’t work anymore.", "I had a group of friends who had 10’s of BTC when it was in the low hundreds. They all sold it when it was in the mid hundreds.", "Could he do anything legally though?", "Industrial shredder.", "Not interested in even getting flagged for saying certain words.", "Who throws out hard drives? I got hard drives that go back to 2001!", "That is rough 😕", "Such a shih move!", "Bitcoin price in 2014 was $500, now it's $50,000 so your $10 would be worth $1000 now", "Yes, that's just one of the reasons why Newport City turn him down every time. When bitcoin's value rockets this guy pops up somewhere in the news around here, I think the Welsh news channels take turns with him.", "Nobody is idiotic enough to give him 10 million dollars. Anyone that idiotic has already lost that money in some other get rich quick scheme.", "He wouldn't be able to get just 1 bitcoin. It would be all or nothing because he would have to retrieve the wallet keys to access any of it", "Cut it in half, feed the halves to two different dogs, burn their poop.", "Same goes if everyone was going to cash out their holdings on stocks or other financial services like insurance’s, nothing is safe if all people liquidate on something, can’t use this argument against something that is working on same simple Market mechanisms", "Your comment shows a lack of awareness. You conflate the terms \"cash\" and \"assets\", and seem to suggest a bank run would have the same effect as a run on Bitcoin. It would not, as one is cash and one is a highly speculative and illiquid asset.", "Let’s say the encryption issue isn’t a problem here, maybe on the same hard drive is a .txt file with the password or something. \n\nChances are there are protections in the contract. In a lot of industries where you are using trade secrets there are nondisclosure agreements and non-compete clauses. I can’t imagine lawyers wouldn’t be able to put a “if you steal the hard drive your employed to find then we will sue you for the entire amount you can possibly obtain from the hard drive and signing this contract means you agree to be sued for $350m if you steal it” but with lawyer words not some dumbfuck on Reddit words.", "Oh, only 2.4? I’d just take the Xbox then and play halo", "Carried it all the way home?!", "[I found this guy's future](https://youtu.be/SJcYPk-1oXI)", "Going by /r/pics that would be on US Navy ships.", "Wouldn't matter even if he did\n\nThere's zero chance that HDD could recover the data considering the landfill is both full of garbage and exposed to the elements\n\nNeed it to be able to spin up to enter the password and get to the private key", "It's not even trying to replace money, it disincentivizes being used as a currency. Only reason people buy it is as an \"Investment\". Only reason it goes up in price is because people keep buying it as an investment assuming it will go up. a currency is no good if it is unstable as hell and people only want to hoard it. That's why I hate shitcoin, it is just a giant pyramid scheme for greedy people.", "No, but because Bitcoin is inherently deflationary, fiat inflation is likely to result in a heigher price for Bitcoin (assuming demand is held constant).", "You're right, but I'm guessing if he doesn't know his private key, he probably doesn't know his public key. Unless he made a transaction he can find.", "The disk could be encrypted, so the password itself might be password protected.", "Probably not. I don't know anything about the law but maybe if there was a contract signed between him and anyone searching he might be able to do something. It would be hard to even prove who found it though, and the smart play would be to wait a few years to sell so it's harder to travel back to the list of people on the crew.", "May the spirit of L Ron travel with him.", "Ha, same thing happened to me but i don't remember the username of the person who tipped me. I didnt realize the tip lapsed, although I suppose I've never actually thought about it.", "[HERE THEY ARE](https://i.redd.it/9by8hyean2oy.jpg)", "You re still pointing out the obvious…..but it seems like you re doing it on purpose, and yes it will have the same effect, can’t argue against that\n\nEdit: the dollar could be considered, if you apply the rules of the global market, as highly speculative too since the financial crisis….", "Go into a gas station that has a microwave.", "Just hold it to ransom. You don't need to cash it in. Give me the money or it's going in the toaster", "This is basically the physical version of mining bitcoin.", "Nobody wants a copy of ET", "Private key files are often stored protected with a passphrase. Wallet softwares ask for the password when you open the wallet.", "They know roughly where it is because dumps are organized in zones based on type of trash, and zones for the same type are filled in a particular order. Given that the drive was in the guy's regular household trash, and given they know when it was thrown out, they can narrow it down to a much smaller area than just \"it's in the landfill\".", "I'm saying the cash in my bank account is already cash, there is nothing to \"cash out\", and I'm not sure what credit has to do with any of it.", "Is his name Russ Hanenman?", "My wallet's private key won't work for spending unless I also enter a password.", "What in the hell are you talking about? It's up 500% from a year and a half ago.", "It's not a currency, it's a speculative asset. Whether that's what it was meant to be or not, that's what it is now. Yes, it has very high volatility, but it's also shown amazing growth during its existence and is inherently deflationary. Very few people still believe that Bitcoin is going to be used as a common currency; that doesn't mean that it won't have significant value as a digital commodity.", "If I remember right his wife chucked it out.\n\nIm sure hes not resentful towards her or anything.", "Not to the same scale, but years ago I was teaching a friend of mine how to play poker online. I've been playing for a living for 18 years but this was probably 13-14 years ago. Anyway one day he was over and another friend of mine came over to play some Tekken. We go to another room and I tell my friend to play on the play money tables for a bit. Long story short I came back and he thought he was on the play money tables but he was on the real money ones and lost nearly all I had in the account 98k. Shit crippled me emotionally for a long time.", "We weren't talking about stocks, you specifically said \"dollars/euros\" which is currency.", "Regardless I'm sure lawyers would line up to try for a cut of the $350 million.", "Hiding $350 Million is gonna be a trick, no matter how many intermediaries are used.", "My mistake, I meant half a year ago.", "This deserves a movie, even if he doesn’t find it", "The life of a treasure hunter.", "Anchor: \"I'd like to see a global diplomatic effort...\"\n\nfor real? that seems like a lot", "Bank runs have happened many times in the past, it doesn't crash the banking system or anything. We will have to agree to disagree, have a good one.", "And that password is on an another disk in the Mariana trench", "I remember wanting to buy Bitcoin way back in the beginning at $20 and then said nah when it crashed to $10. 6000x returns. $100 could have bought me a nice house and $1000 would have been enough to retire. Oh well", "I mean, him paying for himself is dumb. But if he said, hey whoever finds this gets 175 million dollars, I have a feeling there's more than enough people that would try (for free).", "This one does maths.", "Louis Rossmann has ragequit the chat.", "You know, there's a story there. I bet this guy could have his own reality TV show and actually make those millions anyway.", "I can't help but think of a g version of Elrond from LotR when you say L Ron", "Then its worth it if it is 2.8% probability of finding it or higher.", "Ugh. One annoying show", "Man I lost a thumb drive with 12 BTC on it and I kick myself all the time, can't imagine what this guy feels.", "Didn’t he offer like 25% of the value to the city for permission to search? Why do they keep denying his request to excavate? Seems like there’s minimal downside if he’s funding it.", "But I'm sure there are loads of hard drives out there in the dump. Is he meticulously restoring each one he finds to see if it was his? I doubt it had some golden large letters with his name or something. Also, how do you advertise for help? Send me every hard drive you find?", "Why would he need the hard drive, he only needs the private keys.... Unless the private keys are on the hard drive", "So I’m not sure about British law, but in the US there are 4 types of “found” property (a very loose summary):\n\nLost- The owner unintentionally put something somewhere and forgot about it\n\n-\tThe original owner has rights to it until X period of time has past and they’ve made no effort to recover it\n\nMislaid- The owner intentionally put something somewhere but forgot about it\n\n-\tthe location where it was found has rights to it to hold onto until the original owner reclaims it\n\nAbandoned- the owner intentionally gave up all rights to something and explicitly doesn’t want it anymore\n\n-\tthe finder now owns it\n\n\nTreasure Trove- coins or currency which have been concealed for so long that the original owner is dead/undiscoverable\n\n-\tthe finder has rights to it except if the original owner is found\n\nIn this case I think it’d be lost property, but he threw it out at first which could also make it abandoned. If it is lost, it would still belong to the original owner and any worker who tried to run off with it would be in a bunch of trouble.\n\nSource: Benjamin v. Linder Aviation, Inc.", "They cheek things?? Like hamsters?!", "That company would never get any clients ever again once the blockchain shows they stole it.", "He has been trying to convince the government to let him look for it. I don’t think he was ever able to actually try before.", "Sure, it's better to store your money in something with growth, but Bitcoin is not especially unique in that respect and, given its volatility, it's not a great place to park your money.", "The council wont allow it. It's gone man.", "Eh, it's about tree fiddy", "But the software wallet itself is likely password protected too. Nobody just saves their private keys in cleartext, though this was in the early days of Bitcoin so who knows.", "I had a friend in college in 2013 tell me I should use my gaming PC to mine for imaginary coins while I was away. I thought it was some kind of scam like the kids selling knives and energy drinks. Now he's retired and I'm mining for karma through fake internet tears.", "The problem is, you can't hide a gold bar on a tiny piece of paper hidden up your ass. The portability and ethereal nature of cryptocurrencies give them some advantages over physical commodities, though they certianly don't have the inherently \"useful\" physical properties that things like gold do.", "Yeah, what I’m saying is that lawyers probably put stuff in the contract to make this shit illegal. \n\nIt goes in the toaster? Sick, you still owe $350 million. Have fun living at the poverty line the rest of your life with the rest of your wages garnished.", "I once lost 2000 guilders. They were in my jeans pocket.", "People used to spend it all the time once in a time. I remember reading about a guy who bought a pizza for a couple of bitcoins before they had any value. Also drugs, so many people used to buy drugs online with it. Which I'm pretty sure was the original intent for it, being a crypto-currency and all. It was money that could be spent completely anonymously.", "I lost mine in the field walking the dog, gave up and came back the next day found it within 2 minutes, keep the faith brother!", "Maybe by then future generations will be more accepting of blood play", "Why would you just throw that out? You obviously have to drill a hole in it first!", "It's possible that someone snagged it from the trash right after he dumped it. Lots of dumpster divers out there love technology. They would have reformatted it probably or who knows maybe someone got the BTC and they are never telling.", "UK doesn't have that", "I guess that depends on whether you believe that people will continue to demand it or not. Given the institutional support it now has, it's hard for me to imagine that it will just collapse entirely (barring some very unlikely unforseen global regulatory intervention).", "Haha oh god am I behind on lingo. Mouth not ass lol", "Yes, they very very much do. You just need VERY strong magnets.", "Every single monetary use case you can think of, bitcoin is used for. \n\nA country adopted bitcoin as legal tender in 2021 and it is used (near zero fees and instant settlement) to buy Starbucks, pay electricity bills as well as any other economic activity you can think of. \n\nIt also allows those same people to avoid hundreds of millions of dollars in remittance fees. Increasing the quality life and wealth retention for millions of disadvantaged people. \n\nPeople should reserve their judgements of bitcoin unless they actually understand the massive global reach and utility the currency and network has daily.", "Monoprice. $12.99 a pair. Sound great.", "I gagged", "I lost one to the brown abyss while leaning over my clogged toilet & actively plunging.", "Imagine this if you will. He finally finds it, but now the value is ten bucks 🤪", "He’s awful like that. He had to take some medication that he hated for a while. Thought I was totally getting him to eat them. Nope. He was squirreling them under the pad in his crate. He’d wait for us to leave before spitting it out.", "Bose NC700 for the win", "I have a friend who found it very early and mined it when it was still mineable without dedicated hardware. He easily had over 1000 BTC and lost it from hard drive failure.", "So this wasn’t just a scene from Silicon Valley?", "[Someone has to post it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKXqZh43OH8)", "How much is he spending to search for the drive, and what is the likelihood that the data could even be recovered after so many years. It’s like spending your fortune on witch doctors that say they can bring the family dog you accidentally ran over back to life.", "It's kinda hilarious since every crypto guide tells you not to store your key electronically...", "Well, if he works in IT he probably remembers what brand and size it was and maybe even the model. Also, he probably remembers if it was trashed while still in a case, not in a case or in a box with a bunch of others. I highly doubt he is coming across dozens of HDD's that would fit the bill.\n\nBut that was not really my point. My point was that he \"should\" not have to excavate the entire dump to find it. It should really be down to a much smaller x, y, z area.", "Crypto Currency is so fucking stupid", "I'd forgotten the whole thing, but I saw it while combing through old PMs. If they tipped you using Chaintip, it would have expired. Don't know about any other services they could have used.", "Maybe 2.6% fixed loans keep getting written because of the assumption that there is always a greater fool who will take it off your hands. Gold at an all-time high correlates with rising bitcoin prices, and is the opposite of what you seem to be trying to say with your low interest rate mortgage argument.", "Leachate kinda looks like the Ganges. https://imgur.com/fYzn1UD.jpg", "If the drive still works, you should first do a full wipe and send an ATA Security Erase command to the drive, which will wipe it even harder than just overwriting zeros. After that, you can degauss it, which basically means exposing it to a very strong oscillating magnetic field that scrambles the magnetic data and probably breaks some of the more sensitive components. Now the fun part: use thermite until the drive is a shiny puddle. If you get metal hot enough, it stops having magnetic properties. This 110% kills the data. At this point, forensic experts would learn more from the can you drank while doing this than your puddle could give them.", "You would have sold it when it was worth $500. \n\n\"Wow, 4x profit. No way it'll get much higher. Better cash in fast.\"", "It doesn’t matter. The drive is trashed. You know what they do in landfills? They rip apart and thoroughly destroy everything with excavators and bulldozers so it can decay. Even if the drive itself is intact it is buried in wet highly acidic material.\n\nEdit: I feel like people don't know what happens at a landfill. https://youtu.be/RmLhY7f8WxQ?t=244\nWaste is dumped, compacted repeatedly with machines that have giant metal wheels with hard drive destroying spikes on them, and is covered with dirt and sprayed with water.", "But how would that even be possible?\n\nIt's all untraceable right?", "$350 million million = $3.5E14.\n\nThat's a lot of money.", "These sorts of statements make me happy. Tells me we are still VERY early if you think Bitcoin is equivalent to tulips or Beanie Babies.", "I felt like an idiot for leaving Dalvin Cook on my bench this week but at least I didn't throw out $350 million", "…no.", "Honestly? The fact that it will never work even if they do find it\n\nThe dude threw it out in fucking 2013. There is absolutely no chance that a hard drive that's been sitting in a pile of garbage getting repeatedly soaked, rained on, had corrosive liquids poured onto it etc is going to be recoverable.", "That's widespread advice now partly because of cases like these!", "On diamond mines the workers are cavity searched before they're allowed to leave the site.", "If you bought a lottery ticket, lost it, and it ended up winning a $350m jackpot... you wouldn't turn your house upside down looking for it?", "How do you just throw out a hard drive 😂", "Today we’re lucky to complain about such comparatively minor inconveniences. Obviously we shouldn’t just accept the worst society had to offer, we should try to improve it… but hundreds of years ago it was normal to have a sizeable chunk of the population die from a bacterial infection, or have to go through insane pain in the off chance you can actually afford the dentist. Surgery had no anesthesia, and doctors didn’t even know they should wash their hands lol. If you’re unlucky, your lord got his shit rocked by whatever new emperor is sweeping across the continent and your family is either enslaved or buried despite your only crime being farming potatoes for the wrong lord. \n\nShit isn’t great, but i would still choose to face todays problems over the problems of my ancestors.", "I mean it's been in a dump, it's absolutely been rained on and had chemicals poured over it and all manner of things. Theres no way it would work", "According to the recent article, it totally consumed him and he went crazy. If I remember right, he lost his job (IT) and his wife left him and took the kids.\n\nIt sounds like he was a happy family man before this. Guy ruined his life and IMO it's not worth it.", "I use the OG Bitcoin Core full node client.", "Why are you banning people for harmless comments?", "10 years later guy finds it - bitcoin value dropped under 1ct.", "Cryptocurrency is pretty transparently a money-laundering tool and series of scams. If you're not using it for the former then you're involved in either a Ponzi scheme or some sort of pump and dump. Given how obvious the racket is I doubt there's any real \"innocent bystanders\" involved in crypto (and NFTs by extension) so I won't pretend to care too much if scammers get scammed while scamming. The absurd environmental damage and energy expenditure associated with their use make cryptocurrencies immoral. I have about as much sympathy for their owners as I would for someone who's Rhodesian bank bonds went tits up.", "If the FBI was game they could probably reconstruct and read the disc as long as it wasn't powder and was all together.", "Sounds like he never made a copy of the keys", "That's why I said, \"it's on a different order of magnitude from magnetic film.\" Laymen need oversimplifications like \"magnets don't damage HDDs\" otherwise we get misunderstandings perpetuated like we have here.", "No electricity, no bitcoin", "Yes,. But apparently they didn't.", "That's fucking wildly inefficient man, ftfy.\n\nBut who's to say it's worse than printing your way out of a corner 🤷‍♂️", "If your friend still has that drive the data might be recoverable.", "It's 64000 as of right now.", " If i were to find the HDD why would i care about the reward, instead of claiming the 350M myself?", "The search has an expected value equal to the probability of him finding and restoring the disk times the value of the disk minus the cost to perform the search.\n\nI personally think that the percentage is too low to get a positive expected value. However I understand how such idiotically large sum can drive one crazy enough to go through the landfill.", "\"I\" didn't ban anyone, and harassing individual mods like is how you get your account banned... https://i.imgur.com/mKZzhUT.png", "nah, he isn't investing any of his money to find it, he is trying to get the town/city to look for it and give them a bounty, \nIn the news article i read a week ago the city basically told him to sod off and said he was the definition of a loser. LOL", "Bitcoin is anonymous (no names, just wallet IDs) but definitely traceable. Anyone can check if a given person has and is able to spend a certain amount of Bitcoin, using the wallet's public info. That's why Bitcoin works without any central authority, everyone's checking everyone else all the time to ensure there's no cheating.\n\nIt's sort of like cash: you can use it anonymously, but every bill has a serial number and could be traced.\n\nThere are some services that take your Bitcoin and mix it up with other people's, which makes tracing it much harder, but it's still possible.\n\nThere are stolen Bitcoins out there but the thief can't use them because they're being watched by security researchers and governments. The minute they're exchanged for cash or something the thief will be caught.\n\nSome other cryptocurrencies like Monero and Dash have extra privacy features to make tracing harder.", "This is most likely the end result of all cryptocurrencies, unfortunately. Once the speculation vultures get their hands on anything, it becomes an investment directly tied to their purse strings.", "No way to know for sure, but the wallets with 100's of bitcoins that have been dormant since 2013 are very likely to be unreachable. I see no reason why anyone wouldn't have cashed out at least a small portion of it and immediately retire in luxury.", "Today: 12/12/2021 - $50,286\n\nHalf a year ago: 6/12/2021 - $35,517\n\nGain: (50,286-35,517)/35,517 = 41.6%", "There are ways to read shattered platters. They are expensive though.", "> Not if you have to spend 10 million to find it. Who's gonna pay for it all?\n\n/r/wallstreetbets ?", "1,000,000,000 is 1 billion. You are talking about 600,000,000 which is 600 million. Not 6 billion.", "There is an island, in the east Atlantic...", "This. The number of people who bought BTC at >$100, didn't lose access and hung onto it this whole time untouched has to be almost 0.", "> Sure it is theoretically possible, but every single bit of the key needs to be intact.\n\nNot really. If only a few bits were wrong, you could use a brute force search to test all of the the combinations of the wrong bits until you found the right one. Say this was the key you had, with the marked error:\n\n 01101010 01110100 01100011 \n \nYou could start by flipping each bit until you find it:\n\n 11100010 01110100 01100011 \n 00100010 01110100 01100011 \n 01000010 01110100 01100011 \n 01110010 01110100 01100011 \n 01101010 01110100 01100011 <-- Correct one\n\nThis works up to a few bits, but because the search space is exponentially large dependent on the number of bit errors, the more of them there are, there is a vastly lower chance of finding the errors.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_search", "Hope there aren't powerful magnets involved in the search or retrieval.", "370 million give or take. Definitely worth looking for", "04/15/2021 - $63,255\n\nLoss: ($50,286-63,255)/50,286 = 25.8% loss", "Besides, if one bit is wrong, it is at most 265 tries to find the correct one.", "dang", "Everybody had that option. Just like everybody has the option to buy $100 worth of whatever coin is going to be worth 50k ten years from now.", "I think this is old news . . .", "That's just smart investing practice.", "well you see, the Oak Island guys actually found the treasure..... \nthe treasure was the history channel paying them to make shows for years about finding nothing", "This is why people think reddit is toxic. People banning individuals for no real reason other than they can.", "If I gave you 350 MUSD, would you invest 35 MUSD in bitcoin?", "If it were untraceable, the [US Government wouldn’t have been able to recover $2.3m from the Colonial Pipeline hackers after they payed the ransom.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/07/us-recovers-some-of-the-money-paid-in-the-colonial-pipeline-ransom-officials-say.html)\n\nAnd the FBI isn’t saying how they tracked it or accessed the wallet. So yeah… safe and untraceable I guess.", "Dude is literally mining Bitcoin right now.\n\nNow I picture some future where people are chasing digital gold, trawling through garbage dumps around the world following old clues and urban legends from the internet.", "Straight out an episode of Silicon Valley.", "dont believe everything you read on the internet my guy", "Toxic? You told someone to kill themselves lmao", "The term used would be 'gypsy' but this term is now considered politically incorrect.", "I was going to ask how you lose a single earbud, until I remembered everyone else uses wireless ones", "Seems like an oversight in the blockchain to not register owners. Or is thst the whole point, to stay anon, seems like it just opens it up to money-laundering/fraud etc.", "Like I say, it’s all about the expected return. Maybe it wouldn’t be one person, but instead, a crowdfunded search effort.\n\nIt’s obviously a gamble, but you might predict the odds are in your favour.", "All is takes is one big fat whale to leave the table and the whole deck of cards comes crashing down.", "Not in general waste handling from what I've seen (but I'm a programmer not a sanitation worker), only in metal scrap yards which I don't think this is....", "Yeah it’s about 1 in 375 million now", "The City doesn't need to take the gamble. Someone else could, for a share of the lost BTC, which he could use to pay the city.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSD11dnphg0", "Someone tipped me 0.25 in 2012 or roundabouts using tipbtc-bot and I never claimed it. Keeps me up at night. One of my many mistakes", "That would be some intense negotiations! You could easily argue for half the amount unless there is a law that you would have to just hand the hard drive over to the original owner.", "I'm near 100% sure I had a Bitcoin.\n\nIt was like one of those online wallets like Mt. Gox, but not Mt. Gox, back when Bitcoin was so cheap they'd give you one for free for signing up.\n\nI've searched through my email for every email containing \"Bitcoin\", \"BTC\", \"crypto\", \"bit coin\", and \"wallet\" and couldn't find it.\n\nI'm not to upset about it. Chances are whatever site it was doesn't exist anymore and at most it was like 1 or a fraction, so not $350 million dollars.", "lol", "I thought I bought a bunch of nano coin a year ago. Turns out I didn’t end up buying a single god damn coin. Hope that’s not the case with him, I hope he finds it though.", "Big time!!", "Why would any store do that when a system is already in place to handle it? Thanks \n\nIt’s possible now to handle multi currency transactions but there is always a bit of a loss due to currency fluctuations\n\nNo one in their fucking right mind would try to base their physical inventory values on BitCoin. It fluctuates way too much from second to second this makes it useless as a currency but a great speculation vehicle\n\nCurrencies are supposed to be stable in order to trade. Massive fluctuations lead to the issue Turkey just had and Argentina and countless of other countries including the US\n\nBitcoin is completely useless as a currency", "Yep. Only a block or so. He’ll carry anything, though. I should have known he’d grab it.", "but technically he threw it out so he is no longer the owner.\n\nI still agree it would probably go the the owner, but I also think you could find a lawyer willing to argue your case if a worker found it", "You would have long ago sold. Made tidy profit then regretted selling for the remainder of your life.", "I remember I had a bitcoin wallet that I made when bitcoin was worth less than 1000$. \n\nI got it back, there was nothing on it because I never mined.", "It isn't in America, dumb fuck.", ">despite it actually being an unregulated investment fund for the wealthy\n\nThere is nothing stopping you or anyone from purchasing 5 dollars of bitcoin for the last 10 years.", "It's great knowing if I lose this punched steel plate I'm fucked", "but is a bird in the hand worth 35 in the bush?", "Hmm its might be literally worthwhile to actually hop on reddit proper and comb through old inbox replies. Cheers", "And physically shred them for good measure.", "plus, imagine liquidating 350 million of any currency. let alone affecting the price, think about doing that anonymously.", "I was under the impression you could literally store the code for each bitcoin locally, rather than just a wallet code.", "I had no idea Mike Judge was involved with Silicon Valley!", "That's why the word intentionally is there.", "You can buy wireless earbuds for $25-30 now that actually sound great. The brand I have is Tozo but they're are plenty other options. Then you don't have to feel as horrible if you lose them.", "Oh! That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarify :)", "You sure? I remember some case law related to 4th Amendment that anything placed in the trash was automatically Abandoned.", "I heard it was 50% but yes seems a no brainer for the council to allow it to happen if it was being funded externally and done professionally.\n\nI guess they don't want to be seen to permit this as they could be inundated with others trying their luck in a less regulated manner.", "TRES COMMAS", "It's like if you were responsible for all of you're own cash before banks existed. To comparison to banks is a very loose one because we still are our own banks with this but at least now I can access the funds with a password", "Lol all of modern civilization is an environmental catastrophe but I guess your hands are 'clean' of this one.", "yeah my first thought.", "When BTC was topping $20k the first time I started getting more into crypto again and started messing with GRLC. I remembered, after looking at BTC mining pools, that one looked familiar. I recovered my password and sitting in my wallet was $600+. I immediately sold them. This was at around $18k so I got near the first top before the large dip. Really wish I'd held longer but though the crash would come and stay down.", "UK has “theft by finding” laws taht I’m pretty sure would apply in this case", "Just wait until the house of cards that is Tether implodes. That's going to be a fun time.", "The platters themselves could theoretically still be good.", "Alright that makes more sense... Thanks!", "yes but it can be really tricky to prove intent. and for the prospect of 350 mil USD i would hire a lawyer and argue for my right to at least some of the findings", "This IT worker also did not create (or preserve) any* backups of the data on the drive.", "You do know that you can fins it with the phone , right??", "Is a hard drive wiper any better or easier than a hammer?", "No why?", "The drive, or his spirit?", "But there's a possibility of chemical damage to the entire platter itself if the liquid garbage slurry worked its way inside, right?", "Awkward", "For that much money it seems you could develop a \"3 pronged\" metal detector with software that can \"sense\" when a certain strength of feedback in an area the size of a HDD is detected. \n\nI imagine someone could develop that for well under a million dollars....well, offer the developer 2% of the recovered money.\n\nPay like 100 people to sweep the areas in question and you are still only bleeding less than a few million.", "All that wasted computing power destroying the environment and now he's dumpster diving.\n\nUltimately, this is karma the rich will receive for hoarding. Eye for an eye.", "Pro-tip: join your airpods with a string, yarn, lanyard, etc. so they're always in a pair. Even better, connect the airpods to your phone so they're always together! SMH someone should invent something like this. \n \nI lost an airpod too so I feel your pain.", "No, it's real. He's been trying to get permission to do it for years, I can't believe they've finally given in.", "The actual bits that are stored in the magnetization fields of a hard drive can easily survive a thrashing, as long as it doesn't make contact to strong nearby magnets or get heat up to melting point, it is technically recoverable. You do need special tools to read a broken hard drive though, and the more smashed it is, the harder it becomes.", "The magnetic platters inside the drive have a good chance of being intact. If so, it's just a matter of paying an expert to swap them into an new identical chassis in a lab somewhere.\n\nIt'd be expensive for vacation photos, but chump change compared to 350 million.\n\nedit: removed glass from \"magnetic platters\" cause it doesn't matter", "Forever HODL", "💪🏻🦍🚀🚀🚀🌚", "Look up guy who bought pizza with his bitcoin 😏", "Imagine being the tech working on this? You know there are going to be several people standing around watching you. No pressure.", "I'd have sold at 100 dollars tops. I'm just too poor to have couple grand just sit there and hope for a miraculous rise in value...", "This is actually not true for the default bitcoin client. Unless you explicitly tell it to, it will not encrypt your wallet.", "Misleading. He hasn’t been searching for it as the local council won’t even let him into the site. He’s offered a massive potential reward to the council but they haven’t accepted.", "How are they “stored in the hard drive”, what do they mean by this? Can’t he just use his key phrase to create a new wallet?", "Dunno, maybe? I'd still have plenty else to invest in. 350000000 is a lot of dollars.", "Spanish doubloons", "Likely not. HDDs have breather holes. They're meant for pressure equalization, but it allows for easy entry of liquids.", "The platters will likely be intact, yes. The magnetic coating on them almost certainly will not be. \n\nAlso, desktop drives generally use aluminum platters.", "\"Sod\" off... I see what you did there ;-)\n\nGood for the city - not their circus, not their monkey.", "Pixel buds have a feature where you can make them play a sound the gets progressively louder up until full volume, so that you can hear where they are.", "He should use a crane with a hanging industrial magnet. That would catch the hard drive no problem 👌👌", "So you're saying the Ganges is not supposed to be leachate?", "That's what I'm asking. I responded to someone talking about \"cashing out dollars/euros\" which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.", "My luck I'd find it in working condition 7-8 years later just to find out my wallet was hacked.", "Me too. especially the left earbud...", "... trying to make your way in the universe?", "It's extremely unlikely. But for 350MM? It's at least worth looking for 🤷", "It’s a weird situation. They clearly intended to abandon the property, but now they want it back. Does that make it un-abandoned? As a simple 1L and not a full-fledged legal person this is a bit above my ability.", "I did too over 100 bitcoins but I don’t like to talk about it", "I had to buy a new earbud set (don't mind the upgrade) because the earbuds worked where the right earbud was the master and the left a slave, so you literally can't use the left earbud if the right earbud isn't on and in proper proximity to your ear.\n\nI still have absolutely no idea where my right earbud disappeared too and it's been over 2 months.", "I wonder if the UK government will decide to follow american law on this one", "Does that affect its value since there may not be a return?", "I really hope I never have to explain those to my grandkids.", "Both strategies are best.\n\nRewrite the drive a million times. AND destroy the platters. And best to discard the platters in phases, for best chance against somebody reconstructing the pieces out of the garbage.\n\nAlone, either strategy can be circumvented.", "A hard drive is pretty small compared to the teeth of an excavator or treads of a bulldozer, it's not too far fetched to think it could still be intact.", "I know what a bank run is, it isn't the same thing as a run on Bitcoin.", "I feel like you can skip the first steps and just shinypuddle it", "I dropped the charging case for my earbuds on a long walk around my neighborhood, and had to do the whole walk again to find it.", "Also Bwahahaha!", "And without people like them proving bitcoin was a traceable asset it wouldn’t have increased in value. So no need to kick yourself, early adopters had to make that sacrifice", "we used to tip btc on reddit. I gave away well over 100 when it wasnt really worth anything.\n\nthough i expect r/girlsgonebitcoin are all billionaires now.\n\nand hindsight is about as useful in investments as it is in selecting lotto numbers. Sure if we all could go back we would select the numbers they drew. Of course splitting up powerball some 200 million ways would kinda suck.", "It's a shame, but I can't imagine it wouldn't have that effect on anyone. That amount of money, just barely dangling above your head would drive just about anyone insane.\n\nIf I couldn't find it, I'd definitely be searching for a cheap noose.", "Why not start with the thermite?", "DoD 5220.22-M standard had required a 3 pass method for sanitizing data on a drive: \n\n1. Overwrite all locations with 0's \n1. Overwrite all locations with 1's\n1. Overwrite all locations with random bit patterns\n\n\nThis is an outdated standard and was primarily used before the widespread usage of solid-state drives. It has become superseded by NIST 800-88. \n\nThe NIST 800-88 standard now only requires a single pass for sanitization via Clearing, due in large part to changes in software and hardware. They have determined that additional passes are not necessary and do not provide any real benefit when using proper software that meets NIST Clear & Purge requirements.", "It seems the last step makes the others kinda irrelevant lol", "Nah, that still seems like a waste of money, especially for someone who has a propensity to lose wireless earbuds. More cost effective to stick with the things you know you can't lose easily, ya know?", "That’s me every time I misplace my wedding ring", "That makes more sense to me as soon as I heard about it, I figured the guy was lying and wanted attention. No one would have that much wealth locked behind a single hard drive. Despite losing the physical hd. They are way to prone to failure for me to trust a single one with that much wealth.", "Unless it's an operating system I'm not aware of, user passwords offer a trivial level of protection. It's like lockng your front door. A good deterrent but a skilled intruder could pick the door open and even a less skilled one could just smash a window to get in.", "Yeah everyone is saying this dude is crazy, but from a financial standpoint if it’s worth $350 million, it’s probably not a bad investment to keep a dig team on retainer 24/7 looking for it", "You can set up an iCloud account just for your AirPods or add your AirPods to an existing account, then use the Find My service by logging into iCloud.com", "Bravo", "This is why I really don't beat myself up about not getting into bitcoin earlier. I know, without a shadow of a doubt, I would have lost the key and would be making everyone's life around me just as miserable. I hope he finds it!", "Normally I think it would be the property of the dump. I don't know what provision there is for accidentally giving something to someone, or in this case it's more tenuous that he probably intentionally gave it away, but then its value increased.", "I hope he finds it", "Buy a used microwave. They can be had for nearly free.", "Most of the UK separates out food waste from the general garbage, so the waste isn't wet, it is mostly cellophane and other types of plastic wrapping.", "You think he'll spot his hard drive from a freaking satellite? You're quite the optimist, haha.", "Russ Hanneman, is that you?", "Smarter would have been to sell just enough to get back your original investment and leave the rest in there worry free.", "I just like the narrator's voice, he's the same dude that narrates Ancient Aliens. \n\nBoth shows are loads of bupkis, but that dude's voice is soothing and will help me fall asleep. I usually have to sleep with earplugs in, but if I'm feeling unwell or super anxious, I put on one of those and curl up on the couch and I'm out like a light.", "the breather hole should have a rubber membrane though", "Yeah at $350M, I’d offer the company extra and literally stand next to the tech the entire time and insist on a dual key lockbox for whenever you both aren’t there", "350 mega million???", "There's been burnt warped platters of hard drives damaged in IED explosions that have had data recovered from them.\n\nFor 350 million, you could probably finance the recovery if the hard drive was found.", "I can't imagine you can legally unabandon property.", "He lost the hard drive when Bitcoin was worth way less.", "Put rubber bands around the case, it'll make it grippier.", "Even if he did, what are the odds that hard drive is still salvageable after nearly a decade in a landfill?", "$350 MM in greater fool value", "This didn't even happen is America and Bitcoin is an absolutely borderless/countryless concept.", "he has that, but the X is just really fkn big", "This is what everyone forgets. I remember when bitcoin hit a dollar and folks were rushing to sell.", "I'm sure liquidating even a tiny amount of that bitcoin would be enough for them to relocate and set up anew. This entire venture is fucked from the start, dude digging in the trash stands no chance at getting any money.", "Monopoly Money", "5 billion would cause a recession in an asset with 1 trillion in market capitalization?\n\nIt might drop a percent or a few in a day due to the news/volume sold. Then bounce up in a week, tops.", "What makes you say that? I’ve seen all kinds of crazy hard drive recovery stories.", "A white one fell out of my ear into the snow somewhere on the river path I was walking last year (I use a tether now)", "Part of me thinks these “lost bitcoins” is just a way to skirt whatever taxes there may be in said country.", "I had a friend offer to buy a bubble jet printer I was selling for 40 bitcoin (they were worth around 1$ at the time)(my friend worked at a pizza place and would sell underthecounter pizza for bitcoin from people who were mining (the early days of bitcoin)) I told him to fuck off and just give me 40 real dollars. I am an Idiot. He has done very well with the magic internet money.", "If this happened to me the last thing I would do is mention it on the news", "Data storage expert here - the idea goes that if you just write zeros, there exists methods and devices to physically scan the drive and determine the previous data, so best practice is at least three overwrites with random data, ideally 7. Which is why businesses generally just crush old hard drives. \n\nFor personal hard drives, unless you have well resourced adversaries, zeroing is generally enough.", "The truck driver probably spotted it, formatted it, and now it's full of porn", "Excuse the ignorance but, aren't coins stored online in a wallet? How are they \"on\" the HDD? Can he just login anywhere to access the wallet?", "Hahahahahaha what you idiot? This isn't a missing cat you tool. It's a box the size of your palm buried under thousands of tonnes of shit and soil.\n\nHahaha you clown\n\nIt's literally MONTHS of laborious work.", "if it has so much money on it he can probably afford ultra high tech data recovery which doesnt even require the platter to be intact", "A $5 billion payout is going to make that concern rather trivial.", "Possibly, but hd's are sealed as just dust can cause issues with a running hd. They are also pretty strong so unless they were specifically targeted at being crushed, I doubt it would have been.", "This is becoming reality then: https://youtu.be/aKXqZh43OH8", "I kept losing earbuds. Finally I got my JBL reflect earbuds that have a locating feature - they beep extremely loudly, louder than the can play music. I tested them by burying them in my couch cushions - could hear them clearly as I walked back into the room. All earbuds need that feature.", "Yeah, that’s how I try to rationalize my loss. My friend was telling me about Bitcoin when it was like $1 = 1BTC. Explaining how everything worked, it seemed dumb and wasteful (still does) so I was like no thanks. Even $100 would be crazy now, but I probably would have cashed out long ago.", "Why are you applying 2.857%? The reward to total ratio has nothing to do with the relative value of attempting to find it for $10 million.", "Pspspspspspsps!!!\n\nHahahaha", "Well then it would be a lot less fun", "/r/theydidthemath", "I think most people, in the moment, would turn it in. I just think most people are good people.", "But you’re not investing anywhere near that amount.", "Probably not. Back then a lot of people just kept their keys in plaintext. Why not? It was worthless.", "Laughing in your face. Your stupid face.", "Bitcoin is kept on a hard drive and not on an account somewhere?", "Wasn't this an episode of the office?", "You can see every single wallet with funds being stored or moved on the blockchain. Every single coin is accounted for and every address where bitcoin is stored has a private key. Only those with the key can access these funds on the blockchain. Once funds are moved they are on a different address with a different key.\n\nAnd there are two types of \"pass codes\" a private key and seed phrases. A private key can be imported into wallets and will give you access to that specific coin.\n\nWhile a seed phrase which consists of a string of words is used to restore the whole wallet with multiple coins, which in turn gives you access to the private keys. Generally people use this method to backup their wallets.", "Why would it cost $10 million to dig through landfill. That’s just the arbitrary reward he is offering.", "Gone like a fart in the wind? I thought that’s how stars are formed", "Of it has a password", "And grab a shovel and start digging catboy\n\nHeehee brilliant.", "There's no guarantee the $10 mil investment will result in a return of $350 mil though", "It looks like a royal blue peanut beanie baby is still worth $1000+", "The search for the one piece continues", "You can move them to a physical wallet.", "A better question is what would it cost to look for it vs the chance of finding it? If it costs $10,000 for a 1/500 chance of finding it with a payout of $10,000,000 it would very well be worth it.", "Or you know, I've sold a bunch, slowly, over the past decade?\n\nI love how every financial dumbass here is only capable of dreaming up other completely retarded moves and assuming those are the only options.\n\nIf you bought 3 dozen at $12, you don't feel guilty for selling 25% at $700. And you don't feel guilty for only holding a few still.\n\nJust clueless kids not even smart enough to dream about how to have money properly.", "Might I suggest using an industrial magnet. 😏", "The comment states its about US Law and that's what I am responding to.", "Man, I remember when that guy was tipping everyone. I got it a few times, totally forgot about that.", "Imagine he finds it just after the crypto bubble bursts and it ends up worthless.", "Hate it when this happens", "Thanks", "Not in the real world. If you have $10 million you can afford to lose, then sure. But putting yourself $10 million in debt is a good way to ruin the remainder of your life if the search doesn't turn up anything.", "$10 bucks says the kid actually kept it.", "Because you’d need passwords and whatnot to get the Bitcoin", "Hopefully they use a giant magnet to find it!", "I lost one in snow almost 2 years ago now… still have an air pod case with 1 AirPod in it.", "Yes I understand that, I was simply pointing out their comment as written doesn't make a lot of sense.", "You can also make them beep through find my iPhone app", "I mean, if you lost $350 million in that landfill, you'd go and look for it, right?", "Isnt this old news?", "Even if it goes to 3.5 billion in 10 years who tf cares at that point. Anything over 100 million is enough to have you set for life and your children and your grandchildren too. Put it into some globally diversified index funds and never lift another finger for the rest of your life.", "A modern day Sisyphus", "Putting a whole lot of stock in no one at the dump ever making a logistics errror", "Last I heard he had been told that he wasn’t going to be allowed to dig up the waste from that period but he’d offered a substantial reward to the council to allow him to do it to which they said: no sorry, chances of finding it and it still being in working order are too slim. Anyone know what changed?", "financial institutions have invested more into Bitcoin than 5 billion. that much liquidation alone wouldn't send anything into a recession lmao", "It’s not the OS password that’s the problem, but the disk is likely encrypted with a password if he was smart. That’s much harder to crack. \n\nhttps://security.stackexchange.com/questions/243668/is-it-possible-to-crack-a-laptops-encrypted-hard-disk", "This guy gets it", "He said it was an accident to be fair. Might have just fallen in the wrong box, waiting to be dumped.", "I have a online wallet I forgot the login to and don't have access to the email for it. It's only got 1 bitcoin in it so not quite 350 m but I sure could use the 50 thousand.", "Poor guy, haunted by lost treasure that will forever weight on his mind.", "Wait.\n\nDid he look in one of the trash cans in his office first?", "This is why, for some of my holdings, I have predefined moments where I sell off calculated portions. Sure, I might regret it later, but I'd rather have SOME value.", "Have you? Ok.", "Better than 0%", "Can you Einstein?\n\nChrist you're stupid.", "Nah, if he can prove he bought the Bitcoins on am exchange and show the wallet sent out. You could get a court order to move the funds into a wallet you control. Bitcoin was created to be public, transparent and within the law. If it's worth a lot he should get legal counsel. This can be done by subpoena to miners. But he has to prove ownership. Just because you lost the keys to your house doesn't mean you don't own the house, Bitcoin isn't any different.", "Oh in Trudeau bucks i should say not sure whaf the freedom dollars conversion is.", "Nature's filing cabinet", "When the comically absurd, tragic, and horrific all collide in a stranger-than-science-fiction reality...", "The private key can and should still be password protected, so the drive would be useless without the password. Whether he has done that, nobody knows.", "See? THAT'S why I suggested he check the rubbish bins around his office first.", "Back in college I accumulated just shy of 1 BTC just for fun. Threw away* my laptop when I graduated in 2012 without giving a second thought to BTC (it was only worth a couple dollars at that point IIRC). siiiiiiggggghhhhh\n\n\\* Our campus had one of those fancy magnetic memory wiper machines sitting in the IT office. I had always wanted to see the thing work its magic, so when I was graduating I took it to the office to watch the machine go Brrrrrrrr.", "I apologize for lumping you into an unintelligent crowed. I did not mean to offend anyone.", "Well how does it work? That's what I always thought it was", "I lost my wallet in El Segundo!", "Even if it’s wet I imagine the platter is still readable with some forensics. CDs can get wet and they’re fine.", "Word salad", "This is why a central banking system is superior.", "If the guy is smart, he has the team sign a contract saying if the drive is found it must be turned over.", "Drill through it multiple times until it shatters if it's a cheap one. The ones with metal platters are a bastard to pull apart and destroy", "no... you can see what area of the landfiill was being filled. I presume he already knows this info though.", "Get your own jokes", "Sounds great and functional for currency.", "Word salad", "Yup. I had buddies do it. They described it to me and I told them that sounded like the stupidest thing in the whole world. \n\nThey cashed out when it was like 20 bucks and bragged about making a grand. \n\nC'est la vie. Honestly its no different than looking back after a lottery and wishing you would have picked those numbers.", "No bro why bro", "Word salad", "To get at it he'll need heavy equipment raking through it unearthing trash and then moving it. But the second the heavy equipment finds it.... it will get destroyed.", "Not mad bro. You comprehension issues bro?", "Why not - drives are usually almost airtight except for a pressure release seal/valve. The outer electronics may be gone, but the platters should be pretty stable.", "Exactly! Why is no one else commenting this?", "Can't you read then?", "Imagine he finds it and that same day Bitcoin drops to $1", "Im barely paying attention", ":D", "At least he would get SOME of the money. That's how that works.", "Reminds me of the guy that uploaded a video 10 years ago on how to buy a pizza using bitcoins.", "100 corporations are responsible for 70% of all emissions. Crypto as a whole probably contributes less than 0.01% to global emissions. You have been brainwashed.", "It's like looking for 350M worth of Monopoly money.", "No mad here bro. You comprehension issues bro?", "Yeah, at the end of the day they sold it at a price they were happy with and should leave it at that", "Mad how", "No tears only dreams", "People keep saying the drive would be unreadable. I'm not so sure about that. Hard drives are pretty durable in my experience. As far as how liquid proof they are is a different story. On top of that, as long as you know what date it was picked up and brought to the landfill. They may have a good idea of what area to search for it.\n\nIf you've got the time to not work and go look. I would.\n\nAnd as someone who lost 6.66 BTC to Mt Gox, I spent months trying to get it back and there's still only a small glimmer of hope for those that lost their BTC to Gox. I relatively understand this person's drive to find it.", "if it makes you feel any better my friend purchased a slice of pizza around then for 3 bitcoin.", "Check it out MUGATU", "Im chilled bro. Ice cold. Try some.", "Yeah. Definitely extremely unlucky for a USB drive to get crushed... being they are half an inch thick and at most 3 inches long. \n\nIt didn't get crushed.", "350 million is a lot of incentive to act stupid, but this is really sad. He'll never find it. He needs to let go.", "Imagine a man stupid enough to throw out a working harddrive with data still on it. Then you've pictured the idiot also stupid enough to store his passphrase only on the computer.", "That's the start of them all as well, it's not like coin makers aren't all racing to place themselves at the top of a pyramid.", "Get your own jokes", "Could it be? A discarded hard drive? In the middle of a landfill??? But why? And if so, who put it there? And for what purpose? Find out tonight on the curse of Pinellas county municipal landfill", "Why. u sad?", "Show me", "There are whole shows on TV where people are destroying vast tracts of land searching for way less $$$ in gold. Someone needs to get discovery / history channel involved. They’ll find the hard drive, but they will milk it for 10 years and call it “Curse of the dumped bitcoin” or some shit.", "It sure seems like it. Found another interview with him:\n\n\n\nhttps://youtu.be/GrEjaZw95kI", "Yeah u said", "Greed is a hell of a drug", "Is there an echo in here", "Oof, maybe it was 4 then, I don't remember the exact amount, but I remember the number 4 being involved and it being worth enough to buy a 360 at the time.", "I feel like the thermite would be the fun part", "Qué?", "I pulled that number from the data recovery company that the guy that lost the disk contacted, dumbass. Second, you can check with any data recovery company about their success rate and why they can’t recover data from a disk to make a general prediction regardless.", "It seems to be more of a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation. If he didn’t go for it he’d go nuts from losing all the coin. If he does go for it, he’ll go nuts but at least there’s a chance he’ll find it, albeit very very slim. I feel bad for him because he’s suffering either way.", "Found my wife!", "I thought part of the appeal of bitcoin was a decentralized cloud-based currency? Obviously, I don't understand it very well, if at all. It's just really funny that to me that you can accidentally throw put millions of dollars, like an old mattress stuffed with drug money.", "Digging through the worthless to find something of value that you once deemed worthless, that’s a tough irony", ":D laughing in your stupid face. Happy to.", "Imagine in 150 years when bitcoin is worth a trillion per coin and a whole army descends on this location.\nAlso imagine in 150 years when bitcoin is worthless and this landfill is closed because it’s filled with shit and nobody cares.\n\nEdit: years ago I owned 30 BTC, I used it to buy postage for an accessible keyboard. Kills me everytime I think about.", "Yes 20% of all US currency is buried.", "Can't what I'm barely paying attention", ":D", "CD's don't easily corrode when they get wet since the reflective data layer is basically encased in plastic. The bottom is a thick plastic sheet (this makes up almost all of the thickness of a CD), then follows the reflective surface that holds the data, then a lacquer to protect the layer from the top side, then finally the label.", "Somebody on here gave me some bitcoin many years ago on here. I don't even recall how much as it was still basically \"worthless\". I don't even know how any of that works but it would be fun to figure out if I had even a few bucks worth from that.", "What’s Gox?", "My man would deff have sold before it got to these levels", "Yes.\n\nMost Bitcoin wallets are seed phrases, if it is a couple of bits off it will likely result in a misspelling of a word which is very easy to fix.", "He could sell it all, however not all at once without tanking the market (supply vs demand). He'd have to sell it in chunks gradually over time. Financial institutions usually have to do the same thing with large stock holdings, for example.\n\nEdit: He might not \"tank\" the market as others pointed out, it may or may not cause a dip in the price though. The main point is, it's smarter to sell in chunks to avoid potential risks.", "Have you fallen asleep", "Where u go bro", "The ones I've taken apart so far do not. What they do contain is something that looks a bit like a pillow for ants that filters any particle matter that may enter the drive.", "My Galaxy buds have a find feature. Click a button and the buds put out an ungodly loud alarm.", "Awe. Cheeky little dog.", "Mmmmm salad", "I got one of those once. I dug it up a few years ago and managed to cash it in apparently 3 weeks before the bot was fully taken offline and unclaimed tips were abandoned or reclaimed or something. I think it's worth $350 right now, it was a fraction of a cent when I got it.", "Some sources state that it is not possible to access every 1 out of 5 Bitcoins due to lost keys.", "Yes. The wallet is all or none.", "Wassat", "I put half of in a bitcoin wallet on my phone and lost it.", "I have an engineering degree. What's your evidence?", "Hindsight’s a bitch! I first bought some Bitcoin back in 2013 when it was around $16 a coin (if I’m remembering correctly). If only I had kept it stashed away instead of immediately buying drugs online, then I’d be in a whole different kind of place right about now, haha.", "Perfect, I heard it in his voice! If Robert Clotworthy narrates, I'll tune in for every episode.", "This is good for bitcoin.", "I think this all the time when I sold my copy of Chibi Robo 10 years ago for £50. It's worth £300 now. Even if I hadn't have sold it when I did I still would have sold it before it's value shot up", "The harddrive does not contain the bitcoin. It contains private keys that would let one access the bitcoin. Drives me crazy that people don't seem to understand this.", "Maybe the British guy can try this. jk", "IBM claims if you smash a hard drive with a hammer they can still recover most of the data, but it costs over a million dollars.", "That's just a poetic way of describing a pump and dump scheme lmao", "Mmmm salad", "Me, selling my Ethereum for 250ish a few years ago. \n\n/shrug \n\nNo sense beating myself up over it. \n\nI sometimes kick myself for dismissing Bitcoin when it was literally cents because for how worthless it was the effort into figuring out how to keep it and use it was too much. But I’d probably have sold it for thousands of percent gains when it was worth a few hundred anyway.", "Mmmmmmm", ":D", "Exactly, I for example had 0.5BTC and sold it and made 20x back, but if I had waited could've made like 100x back. And who knows it might be worth 10x more in a few years, or 10x less. Hindsight is always 20/20 but with crypto, it's basically just gambling.", "Jfk", "I had to go way too deep to find your comment. I thought OP was a joke/reference to Silicon Valley first too lol", "No Canadian dollars.", "Getting lazy?", "WAKE UP", "He said a couple, not all. If it was only 2 corrupted, and you knew which, then you can guess it.", ":D", "LOL crypto bros", ":D", "Not if you know which bits", "UK doesn’t have contract law? Lmao ok", "He should be thankful he's not this poor guy: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.5875363/this-man-owns-321m-in-bitcoin-but-he-can-t-access-it-because-he-lost-his-password-1.5875366\n\n2 guesses left before the key that holds his untold wealth \"self-destructs\". He can physically hold the object containing the data he needs, but it may as well be under landfill, on Mars because he doesn't remember the password :(\n\nI think at this point I would offer to split winnings from someone I feel is trained enough to attempt an extraction of the data so I could at least then have a clone and then presumably try some brute forcing on it.", ":D", "Russ hannerman?", ":D", "No 20% of all US currency was printed last year muuuuuuuch better.", "You need the entire secret to access the funds.", "Now who's a good boy?", "Why is he only starting now? He'd have had tens or hundreds of millions on there for years now.", "Millions yes, but out of 8 billion? It's a HELL of an improvement over what percentage had access to the meagre medical aid that was available then.\n\nThe existence and proliferation of simple antibiotics all on its own is like two different realities of existence.", "Yeah don’t think that drive would mount in the state it’s in…. But DEFINITELY worth the most expensive data recovery possible…", "You are the one true earbud listener.", "Doesn't have wage garnishing lmao ok", "Years ago my cell phone slid out of my pocket and into leaves at my mother's house. I was frantic. I searched everywhere even in the garbage. Had to go out to the curb, bring the bin back to the yard and dig through nasty trash. No phone. I used my mom's landline to call my now ex and had him call my phone. Nothing worked. I don't know why I was so panicked over the phone but I was under a lot of stress at the time. Finally the next morning I went outside and rummaged around in the leaves near the place where I had been sitting and found the phone. The phone was black and basically camouflaged itself on the ground.", "It's not a recent video, he's been searching for years now.", "Would've should've could've are the bane of any trader.", ":D", "I hope he finds it.", ":D", "I'm so glad people like you exist, with out you people like me would need to work real jobs 😎\n\nYou misunderstood multiple things with an arrogant sign off. We'll done!", "Ok, maybe I should have left out America, and just said it's a symptom of unchecked capitalism and the worship of money. America happens to be a particularly egregious example of this problem, but it's present everywhere to some extent. My point was that lost money driving one to madness is an unhealthy response that is symptomatic of a greater problem.", "I found my mail key in between my couch cushions 5 months after losing it, so I know what this guy is going through", "Isn't is likely crushed and/or downed in garbage juice?", ":D", "There is a 'key' that is needed to get into the file plus some other security measures.", ":D", "I bought a gaming pc for 10 btc.", "Not quite. There's a difference between crypto creators/miners and speculation vultures. \n\nMainly being, speculation vultures don't create anything. They come in afterwards and try to make money off of other people's work. They don't actually do anything. \n\nMuch like corporate raiders back in the day, they're just after profit. They don't care what succeeds or fails as long as they make money this quarter.", ">It’s not the OS password that’s the problem, but the disk is likely encrypted with a password if he was smart.\n\nDepends on the type of drive.\n\nLaptop drives are encrypted often, because of the risk of theft.\n\nDesktop drives are not encrypted as often.", "Why do Americans think the world just sues each other to get what they want?\n\nGet out more man. Get a passport.", "How many Gigabytes does 7,500 bitcoin take? \n\nCan you back up your bitcoin investments on another medium, dvd, usb, SSD, Digtial tape?", "headphone makers love this one trick", "go down that rabbit hole. it was a magic the gathering card game trading platform that turned into a way to buy illegal drugs using Bitcoin. tons of Bitcoin were being held there and then it was taken down and lots of people lost lots of Bitcoin.\n\nthis is a really bad description of it, but probably mostly correct.", "I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, hard drivers are nowhere even close to airtight. Where did you get that idea? And there is no \"pressure release seal/valve\", there is a hole a couple mm across that helps control air pressure in the drive.", "They're both based on English common law, so it isn't a terrible comparison. Look at the case that the OP references. While they're debating a more recent statute, there is discussion of how it interacts with distinctions in lost property in England.", "Except for that wallet, it's not just about the monetary value. It's also about the implications of that wallet becoming 'live' again. If it's satoshi, suddenly he's alive and cashing in his wealth when everyone is like 99% sure he's dead. If he's alive and it stays, it proves the creator believes more in his creation than he values wealth. \nIf even 1 btc moved, there would be a mass sell off based on uncertainty.", "Right? It's so dumb he kinda deserves his fortune (or lack thereof)", "RIP", "Thx I’ll take a look.", "Solid state memory is pretty different from mechanical drives. I don't think you're wrong though, it's certainly possible if he ever finds it.", "Trade offs but you probably wouldn’t understand", "We call it white trash in the states. Although that term is problematic for several reasons.", "And a lot of people just type 1234.", "House yes. Landfill from 8 years ago no", "You're saying your credence of bitcoin being a good investment is dependent on you making money on bitcoin? Unless you were trading (timing/jumping in and out of) bitcoins, you having invested in it isn't a skill based endeavor, and you shouldn't assume it is a safer bet if you were long from the start or not.", "Would the drive even be readable if he threw it out in 2013 and it's been in a landfill outdoors in the elements ever since? I would imagine the drive is ruined.", "Lol this is how future pirate treasure legends are made", "All these crypto bros aren't creating anything either. It's just wasting computing components and electricity for literally nothing.", "How often do you spend a million trying to win 100M on the lottery?", "Well the part that's confusing, the story claims he threw it away in 2013, but even at the lowest, it was still ~100$, so he still had nearly a million in BTC. It's weird how little protection he'd have around such wealth if he'd just accidentally throw away a hard drive. You'd probably want to backup your million dollar with more than just a single hard drive.", "Fit your hard drive with a tracker. Just in case", "Mentioning and blaming capitalism in this context is simply retarded.", "yes they are gone", "So hypothetically if you had 5b in Bitcoin and wanted to cash out, how would you do it?", "Because those first bitcoins were trivial to mine. It was the right thing to do IMO.", "He wouldnt tank the market with only 350MM. BTC is worth 600B.", "Unless it's messages deleted from the Danish primes ministers phone.", "Absolutely. Take the L, bro.", "I like to stand upwind and NFT all over a crowd of unsuspecting people. But then again, I've had some that could be described as very funged.", " Buried in offshore accounts lol", "For the wealthy? Maybe you should talk to the people using it in African and Latin American countries to protect the little money they do have.", "I kinda like mine…", "Who puts a hard drive into the landfill anyway? Come on...", "They finally gave him permission? It’s been what, five years since the drive was thrown out? I’d be surprised if it’s still functioning.", "Hope the man finds it. That just sucks.", "Totally! Why is no one else agreeing with you?", "Sometimes easier said than done.", "Sup", "My Gox was an old exchange for Bitcoin. My old coworker told me about bitcoin, after he wouldn't shut up about it, he told me how to get started. Had a Mt Gox account for a year with a little less than 6.66btc (I forgot how much the fee was) and then in 2014 or so Mt Gox was shut down due to several reasons. \n\nSince then there's an estimated for 800k BTC or so that has \"vanished\" or stolen or seized during Mt Gox's bankruptcy and legal issues.\n\nWikipedia gives a good insight into it and I'm sure there are plenty of redditors that can give you much more information.", "Bitcoins market cap, is over 600billion rn, you would see it on the charts, but it definitely wouldn't tank the market\n Correction BTC market cap is 916 billion", "seeing how i've never touched a crypto, yes they are", "I saw a video about a year ago where he was trying to get permission to look. They said the site has a pretty good idea of where the location would be given the date he threw it out. So it's not a total stab on the dark. \nAt least if he doesn't find it he should have a bit of closure.", "There he is", "Trivial for 350MM", "whataboutism isn't a good defense of a bad act", "Lol you can't just make $350 million dollars back.", "🤦‍♂️ \n\n34xp4vRoCGJym3xR7yCVPFHoCNxv4Twseo This wallet alone disproves what you thought, this wallet (binance cold storage) has already more than 1% just by itself. This is just one exchange... There is a whole lot more coins in circulation that you think", "Watch him find it only to discover he had forgotten that he emptied the wallet ages ago.", "Never put a hard drive that contains monetary value of any amount anywhere near a trash can. Keep that shit in a place far from damage from things like floods and fires.\n\nIf he lost this in 2013, those bitcoins would have been worth tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars at the very minimum just owing to the quantity of Bitcoins he had. I hate to shame the guy, but why was he screwing around with a hard drive that had that much value?", ":D", "What in the world makes you think that...", "I lost $20 once and was pissed.", "The sad part is, my intentions were to buy drugs with it and never did. I found a good connect locally for Acid and Molly and just let my btc sit. Should have moved to kraken like several people on reddit told me to.", "Why speak like this", "I remember hearing this story when BTC was around 10k. \n\nHis hard drive was worth about 75mill then.", "You’d need to become a monk after that", "The system is such that you have your wallet which grants you access to your coins, but there is no backup like a bank, you lose the wallet or access to it and your coins are unaccessible. That is the trade off for a decentralised, anonymous monetary system.\n\nThe other issue is you sending coins to the wrong address, depending on the type of coin they can get \"lost\" and otherwise the transaction is non-refundable unlike banks which would some provisions in place to pull the money back if it was done in error (not always though).", "Maybe they should add some sort of chord to the air pods. That can connect to your phone..", "> For 64 bit encryption, the brute force attack require to guess 2^64 key combinations. The fastest super computer till date is Tianhe-2, a supercomputer developed by China's National University of Defense Technology, with a performance of 33.86 petaflops (quadrillions of calculations per second) on the Linpack benchmark.\n\n> Petaflop is about 10^15 or 2^50 floating point operations per second. Thus this super computer can compute 33.86×250 operations per second, So, it will be cracked in 2^14/33.86=483.87sec that is 8 mins", "I'd say giving him roughly 3% chance of success is being insanely generous.", "The drive will almost certainly be in bits. The platters shattered, the whole thing fucked.", "People who never sell are also the ones saying \"just watch when it hits 10 million a coin , just watch\". Meanwhile most sane people sold and are enjoying that money.", "And yet, researchers found perfectly preserved 50 year old hotdogs and newspapers when they dug through a landfill.", "Thx much appreciated!\n\nSo much I don’t know", "I don't see anything unreasonable about blaming unchecked capitalism for an unhealthy relationship with money, but I think I'll leave it at that if we've devolved to calling each other's opinions \"retarded.\"", "I hope he finds it lol", "Lol you can’t make your wife love you again", "Russ?", "Yea I was thinking the same thing", "You mean cracking that?", "Sup", "His partner threw it out and hindsight is great but it’s not like he knew it was that valuable. Nothing to suggest he isn’t smart but unfortunate.", "\"Irish traveller type\" is a lot worse", "Same, but $50 in early 2011. Was all ready to go and decided it was a stupid use of money.", "Right? Unless Western Digital has some T-2000 shit going on in their drives I think we can skip the 10-hours of erasing.", "35 million birds\n\nEdit: it was a joke….", "In fairness, crypto is pretty worthless. It will soon be just as valuable as my father's basement full of Beanie Babies that should have paid for my college education.", "We're talking about a guy who was mining crypto long before it got mainstream. He knows about bitlocker etc.", "yeah I remember hearing of this like 5 years ago. Pretty sure he has been looking since 2013. \nhopefully for his own sake he can come to terms with it sooner or later because there is no way in hell he is getting it back lol", "Still not found it was fuckin ages ago. He tried to get help from council and they would keep half if they find it.", "He wouldn't have to lawyer up for some of the findings. Whoever finds that thing is going to be a multi millionaire, without a doubt.\n\nThe dude will be paying a finders fee.", "He is still looking for that? Wow! By now it's so degraded, smashed he wouldn't get anything but a chunk of plastic and rusted metal.", "https://youtu.be/GpMP6Nh3FvU\n\nA great video about one of the people who were the driving force behind crypto being used for buying illegal substances. Not much about Gox but its a great story and shows how the market was going. (man running online drug market thinks he's a kingpin and was ordering anonymous people to murder those who he believed were \"in the way\" of his operation)", "You could say the same thing about cash", "I lost my favorite hoodie one time, I get how he must feel.", "Ban crypto. This is goofy bullshit.", "There's diminishing returns on money. If I had 10k in my back account would I bet it all on a 50/50 chance at 25k? The EV says yes but that first 10k is much more important than the next 10k, and so on", "He is from Wales …", "I don't know the details on this case, but I'm assuming that he could purchase the pile of garbage he's assumed the hard drive is in from the dump. That would \"unabandon\" it if it's in there.", "Pyramid scheme", "yeah he is definitely not lying. It would have been trivial to have thousands of bitcoin back then just from mining a bit, they were \"worth\" almost nothing. \neven I remember when they were $10 each, but I am pretty sure when this guy mined they were pennies or under a penny each", "My local landfill is surrounded in a 10 foot fence and barbed wire.\n\nIdk what they're trying to keep out, or in.", "I've used that trick so many times, it works great usually.\nYesterday, I had to look for a brake pad spring wire that sprung while putting new brake pads on. The flashlight trick didn't help, I think its time to head to the auto parts store.", "IANAL but if he begins actively searching for the hard drive before someone else claims it as theirs, would it not be abandoned? But if someone found it before he attempted to locate it himself, then it would be abandoned and they could keep it?\n\nThis is just conjecture, idk what i am talking about", "Read it as Briti-shit. Still kinda applies lol", "Is this the same guy who forgot his password to access it?", "[Seriously? Not a single Russ Hanneman reference in the comments???? ](https://youtu.be/GrEjaZw95kI)", "Where is this landfill? Finders keepers…", "Not btc, but I bought gamestop stock when it was at around 10$ a year ago. Had 500 shares. Sold when it was 25$. Still good profit, so i don't look back.", "Honestly, I never thought I'd find something less likely to happen than me getting my 8.3 BTC back from MtGox.", "What does the “traveler” thing denote? Is it like some wandering homeless Irish guy?", "Honestly I would hope the recovery techs are not aware of what’s on it when doing the repair", "And that bit was referencing the guy in the story, just to show how long he has been at this", "In finance, they don't use K for thousands, they use M. MM literally means thousand thousand.", "\nFull Definition of hypocrisy\n\n1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel His hypocrisy was finally revealed with the publication of his private letters. especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion our conventional morality often serves as a cover for hypocrisy and selfishness\n\nGet off the internet and live in a log cabin while farming the land, then come complain to others about the energy/technology they choose to use. Your use of Reddit is killing the corals you absolute monster.", "Can tzu believe the nerve of that doggo?", "i did not know that. something something full circle.", "Unless you want one specific copy of ET", "This was always my problem with wireless buds, none of them stayed in your ear snugly. I took a chance on the Nothing Ear 1 buds, and I absolutely love them. I couldn't get them to fall out of my ears if I tried (and I did try).", "Thanks KG", "Giggity", "No, the Fed already said that's not going to happen. I can see it being more regulated, buts its here to stay.", "Café con leachate", "Twilight zone plot: he spends $200m to finally find it, and when he goes to sell, bitcoin tanks and he is left with a $200M bill for the dig.", "Yeah exactly. People love to criticize the guy who sold a few thousand BTC for a pizza back when it was worth nothing. But if everyone holds and no one buys, it's worth nothing.", "Man’s best friend. Always watching your back.", "Good idea", "And what condition does he think that hard drive will be in if he finds it?!", "Na u dont", "How would you do the other steps after turning the drive into a shiny puddle? :)", "Leachate de leche.", "EIGHT YEARS?", "Sanest crypto bro.", "Precisely! Unless he stored the key phrase on that hard drive which would make this whole story make sense", "Even if they dump 50x it's still 7,5 million.", "He's been searching for a while now. Sad to say it's probably long gone.", "Nice try, Satoshi!", "not sure anyone’s died that way actually", "The drive or file could also have been password encrypted separately.", "Wasn't this a storyline on silicon valley?", "To think of the life he could have had; the experiences he could have enjoyed. If only he had gone to therapy and learned to let go.", "Never seen the office huh?", "I got Bitcoin in 2010 from a faucet and some cpu mining. Didn't really know how it worked at the time. Just knew private and public key, so I stored them both in a .txt file on my desktop. \n\nSadly my hard drive went bad a year later and I sent it in for an rma.\n\nI believe stories like that are super common. Vast majority of early users were either curious nerds or nerds with a drug habit.", "Good thing you're not [this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Wayne). Sold his 10% stake in Apple for $800. Apple is currently worth close to $3 trillion.", "My Shih Tzu is the same. He'll eat anything and it annoys me. Im thinking of breeding him with a bulldog and calling my mix bullshit", "Those LG ones with the neck thing might not be a bad idea for someone like you. Mostly wireless, but hard to lose.", "Who in their right mind says “350 thousand thousand”?", "the chance of it being readable is extremely low. \n\nFirst of all when in the trash did it go close to a magnet? in wich case readability is almost null. \nSecond of all, good luck with the disk condition, it's in a dumpster under ground so ground got on it other stuff got on it and rain got on it as it filter in the ground. \n\nI see almost a 0 chance of it being findable", "How long does it take to check if a private key matches? I'm guessing you can try thousands per second. When 350 million are on the line, I'm sure he'll get some decent hardware. It would be ironic if the key recovery ends up taking 100 years or something, unlocking a vast treasure but only after this death.\n\nBut he'd actually not know how many bits are off, right? Is the key typically stored with some kind of redundancy or checksumming to protect against bit rot?", "We could multiply the amount of emissions crypto causes by a hundred then wipe them off the face of the earth and it still wouldn't make any meaningful impact.\n\nNot to mention the majority of bitcoin is farmed in China which has the highest source of renewable energy in the world, so a large amount of bitcoin essentially contributes nothing to emissions.\n\nIt's not \"whataboutism\", it's \"you've been tricked by the very people annihilating our planet into fighting petty battles over bullshit that doesn't matter so you don't realize they're annihilating the planet right in front of your eyes\".\n\nI'll join you in your battle against the \"environmental catastrophe that is bitcoin\" when daily commutes stop contributing like 500,000,000x more to emissions than crypto does. Until then, crypto essentially has zero impact on the environment and you're wasting your time thinking otherwise.", "irrelevant definition. you said my hands were clean of this one, and since i haven't used bitcoin, they are.", "I always knew he was a bird", "I hope when he finds it the bitcoin market finally crashes completely and he realizes he spent his life digging through trash to find something completely worthless.", "Are you joking?", "Lol he finds it only to realize he used up the dough to pay for pizza when he thought it was just a fad...not that I would have experience with that", "So...correct me if I am wrong.\n\n1 of 2 things is true. 1) He doesn't know the password, in which case finding the drive won't help, or 2) He does know the password, in which case you don't actually need the drive. The ledgers are public, you can recompile your wallet at any time with the password. No?\n\nIs it that the password is on the drive? Bitcoins themselves aren't actually purely stored on a single drive. \n\nor am I missing something?", "Yeah it really depends if you know which bits are missing/wrong, otherwise it's the age of the universe many times over.", "If you're anyone who cares about sound even a little bit, $30 headphones is a really quick way to just throw $30 in the trash can.", "Lol good point", "I had 0.21 Bitcoin on a crashed hard drive. When the prices rocketed, around 2016 I think it was, I spent a long time trying to recover the wallet file. Eventually I got it out through a combination of installing Linux on another hard drive and doing a lot of commands I didn’t understand but the internet told me to do. Got it out, sold them. Today they would have given me 10x more than then. But if they hadn’t been on a crashed drive, I’d probably have sold them long ago.", "Wasn’t there some weird phenomenon where people who were in prison were a significant proportion of people who were making millions off of it because they were forced to hold the bag? I read that somewhere. Imagine going to prison, having that be the shittiest thing in your life, but by doing so you become a multimillionaire.", "The password to his wallet and the recovery seed phrase are two different things.", "Sure, but you have to be sure to shinypuddle it completely, because if the thermite burns straight through it, the un-burned parts might still contain readable data. Of course, reading that data would be a pain in the ass, if even possible.", "Ah that’s true, good point it’s not really comparable. But still they can do amazing things with disk forensics.", "Why say lot word when few do job?", "What really? That's crazy.", "Yeah I’d be searching that too", "\"I said, thumb drive! That's an actual thumb.\"", "Is that guy still on that? Oh boy, how much good money he must've already thrown at this.", "Just like salmon eggs", "Anybody know what the public key is for this? That way we could all track if it moves.", "But pixel buds have an option on the app to make them play a chime in case you lose it. It'll apparently cause ear damage if you're still wearing it while it does this so if you play with it don't do it while wearing them.", "This is LITERALLY a scene in Silicon Valley lol", "And less shit filled diapers.", "Russ Hanamon at it again it seems", "Is it effective to put a drill through the drive? Because that’s typically how I dispose mine.", "And that’s why I put a purple sticker wrap on mine", "The private key isn't the password. The password protects the private key.", "> Some insight into this mysterious process was provided in 1992, when the archaeologist, William J. Rathje, published his book Rubbish! The Archaeology of Garbage. The now deceased Rathje was a professor at the University of Arizona in Tucson, where he founded the Garbage Project in 1972. For over 20 years, he and his teams of student volunteers excavated more than 21 active landfills, approaching these modern-day refuse piles almost in the same approach that archaeologists have always investigated ancient trash heaps—like giant mounds of evidence of human culture and their habits, both good and bad. But the data that the garbage project amassed didn't just further understanding of humans' garbage habits; it also shed light on some of the science behind trash. Namely, that organic matter cached in landfills doesn't really decompose. It mummifies. In a 1992 interview with the New York Times, Rathje recalled an order of guacamole he recently unearthed. \"Almost as good as new, it sat next to a newspaper apparently thrown out the same day. The date was 1967.\"", "Yeah seriously this is right where the story has been to the last couple years. The city won’t let him go dump diving, he really has no other options here.", "If I were him I would just sell the rights to the hard drive away to someone else for like a million dollars. Per year", "Expected reward is Total reward \\ probability of reward.\n\nIn economic settings, you wouldn't consider an investment if the expected reward was less than the cost. So your minimum probability of reward is going to be cost/total reward, which is 2.857%.\n\nAnything lower than that chance would be a disadvantaged bet.", "More than you’ll ever know. And I didn’t have to dig up a garbage dump.", "That's not true at all and any such guide would be wrong and stupid.", "Lol", "This is why I hate that ear buds have become standard. I have very small ears and long hair, and especially during these crazy masked times there are just so many opportunities to lose it. Whenever I drop one I have to stop what I'm doing until I find it", "Allegedly.", "Expert at the end says you can’t trace Bitcoin. \n\nBitcoin is an open ledger that you can see and trace all transactions on.", "If you lost it getting out of your car shouldn't it be... beside your car?", "An expert on hope... Christ... I think it's funny.", "I thought it was called kombucha", "Bean counters, that's who.", "Was it a flash drive or a hard disc drive? HDDs are common in desktops and much larger than a flash drive.", "I will give you one pizza for them.", "That’s 2,500 USD, must be nice to call that soda money.", "Need that drive to ensure tres commas.", "Pretty sure Satoshis wallet is much bigger than that one. Could be another early adopter though that lost keys or passed away.", "Lol no you couldn't, not honestly anyway. Crypto-bros gonna crypto-bro but I just wish they'd gamble over penny-stocks instead of something even more pointless, that is using more energy than all of New Zealand.", "I got a coupon sort of thing when I bought a video card while building a new PC from Newegg (or maybe it was one of the other sites at the time) in...I dunno late 2010/early 2011 iirc. Sometimes you'd get a MIR on stuff like $25 or a free game from Steam...for this it was 100 BTC. At the time they were about 25cents each...I kept it around with the intent to turn them in but just never got around to it and was thrown out soon after.", "40 years from now he'll still be digging. This would make a good short story or something. Idk maybe not. Pretty sad and boring.", "“Man spends 7.4 Million Dollars and 10 Years to Retrieve 7,200 bitcoin now valued at 7.5 Million.", "Because the data would still be easily readable while the thermite was still on its way in the mail.", "Sell it slowly across multiple major exchanges, or contact someone like Michael Saylor and form a contract to sell him some.", "That’s legit why I am glad I didn’t buy BTC when I first heard about it at the very beginning. I’d have sold a long time ago and would be kicking myself.", "What, is this done magical court? If you don't have the keys you cannot move the coins. Court order or not.", "It feels a lot longer to him.", "Which with electronics you DONT DO THAT ANYWAY! Toxic metal in the land and all, DUH?", "'Slightly' more than $30 and not wireless, but Tin T2 are surprisingly not shit. There are some gems hidden in the flood of crap coming out of China.", "I once bought some weed for 17 bitcoin lol", "\"i bought this lambo at a flea market, i swear!\"", "I think it’s what we would call a “gypsy” in the states. But that term is derogatory especially in the UK.. so I think op was trying to use a less offensive term", "No, it is C(256, n) where n is the number flipped bits. For C(256, 1) it is 256, for C(256, 2) it is 32640, for C(256, 3) it is 2763520, then 174792640, etc.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination\n\nTo illustrate, say, you have the data `0000` with one bit error then you need to check C(4, 1)=4 combinations:\n\n 0001\n 0010\n 0100\n 1000\n\nIf you have two bit errors you need to check C(4, 2)=6 combinations:\n\n 0011\n 1100\n 0101\n 1010\n 1001\n 0110\n\nAlso, your forth iteration (n=4) using (256+1-n)^256 the number of tries would be 4 billion, not 4 trillion.", "I'm curious as to whether or not he even has his keys, if he finds the drive. Imagine he does eventually locate it and doesn't, lol.", "Especially in Grouchland.", "Maybe he should try using a big magnet to find it?", "Well, he's at 3.5 now so he can continue for another decade or so.", "Yup i understand this. I lost a hardrive with 50 bitcoins. My brother took my old computer parts to the e waste center. When I showed up i saw them drilling holes into the hardrives and knew I would never get it back.", "Slipped in the driveway 2 winters ago and throw my car keys going down. Looked for probably 30 minutes in the snow. Then checked everytime the snow melted just a bit. Had to wait until spring to find them. And they were right were I thought they had landed. Crazy I didn't see them months ago.", "i could survive losing maybe up to a mil worth of btc but this much? yeah i'd be out there with a shovel", "If you believe that GME has a good, achievable plan that they can implement over the next 5-10 years keep it\n\nIf you were just in it for the memes I would take the loss ASAP and learn that lesson for the next time", "Holy shit, dude, that's fuckin rough. I played razz to make the majority of my income for about 14 months and got locked out of a month's earnings on Black Friday that I was never able to recover. I would have lost my damn mind if I lost 98k... goddayum.", "While I don’t think they’re creating anything of value, they are creating something. \n\nI’m not a fan either way - but that’s still quite different from speculation vultures, who are just hedge funds and rich people who come in to steal other people’s work, regardless of what it is.", "It sounded to me that he was going to give people $10M if someone else found it for him. So the cost to him would basically be nothing regardless of outcome.", "No, everybody knows this.", "Yep Sony has a Bluetooth pair that was on sale for like $15-20 work great and have a microphone and I'm not worried about damaging them doing construction since they're so cheap", "Not really, you would just need to line up a couple of big OTC trades (which you could easily do for hundreds of millions of dollars) that would need to happen at the same time. What would actually make the price drop is people finding out the bitcoins came from the \"Satoshi wallet\". But even then you should have enough time to execute the OTC trades.", "No it's supposed to shut you the fuck up because your comment is moronic", ">if he was smart\n\nhe threw away 350M in bitcoin, so that's not a given", "I was using bitcoin in 2009 and it asked you for a passphrase... Software encryption has been a thing since the 80s lol", "Reference get", "He wants other people to fund an open-ended treasure hunt yes", "I'm not laundering money, scamming, involved in a pump n dump or Ponzi scheme, etc and I have cryptocurrency. \nBut thanks for your assessment.", "[great documentary on satoshi for anyone interested](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kav2K1DVWo)\n\ni don't really care about or follow crypto but it's a really cool story and a quality youtube doc.", "Watch him end up finding it somewhere in his house", "God I hate \"news voice\"", "Oh I saw this show. While watching 5 mins of the first episode I thought... hey, can't I just skip to the last episode and see the result. So I loaded the last 5 mins of the last episode. That was disappointing. And I only spent 10 minutes on it.", " Crypto ignorant here…\nBut can someone explain how something like this can happen. I don’t get how something so valuable could be so easily lost. Is there not a system in place for crypto to be in a secured bank-like location to prevent something like this? how does one “lose” digital money? \n\nWhy would someone invest so much of their livelihoods into a currency that can be so easily erased from existence. Crypto seems like a dumb ass move to use real money to buy.", "Just here for all the original \"real bitcoin mining\" jokes", "He's also lost 8 years of his life looking for the thing.", "You mean the seed phrase?", "I dropped my beyblade in the snow when I was in primary school. I had just done some work on it and it was awesome. And then just like that it was gone. I walked by the bush where I thought i lost it every day for months. Never did find it. I hope this guy has more luck.", "you would use the offshore accounts, and keep it quiet. at least that's what gordon gekko would do", "Mmmmm Dolce de leachate", "I know there's a massive mark up on headphones but anything under like...$100 MSRP is gonna be pretty rough.", "Bah humbug. You could get a lot more out by arranging for many many private contracts, all with the same delivery date for when you transfer it out. Yes it'll drop hugely, but you have contracts from X Y and Z to pay you X price.\n\nBut wtf do I know 🤷‍♂️", "This is the way.", "Because you're on the clock while the secure delete runs.", "I really like the Powerbeats Pros. They have a similar tip to airpods pros but they wrap around the ear in a way that is impossible for me to knock them out or for them to slip off.", "I fall in to this category unfortunately. I bought 3 bitcoins from back in 2011 for like $20 ea? I bought it more as a gag / joke after hearing about someone buying a pizza with them. \n\nLong story short, hard drive took a crap on me, ended up corrupted somehow. I still have the drive but I can’t recover the keys. Any ideas on how to recover them, I’m all ears 😂", "oh you know what this reminds me of, the deal with the movie fargo and the suitcase full of money. people going out trying to find it, thinking it was real.", "Dude it's literally in the setup for Metamask...", "$350 million dollars won't make you much happier than about $1 million dollars, which is attainable.\n\nMoney is necessary but not sufficient for happiness.", "> Nobody just saves their private keys in cleartext\n\nDuring the timeframe that these types of keys tends to be from in stories like these, there's a solid chance it's cleartext files.", "Oh boy would you have been fun during any number of the previous fads.", "there are some people advocating for a better way to recover bitcoin... fuck the general population is still retarted on how crypto works. thats like saying there are some people advocating for better ways to recover your lost cash that falls out of your wallet when you lean over the railing of a bridge.. The point is youre responsible. No bank. No daddy. Its yours. Thats why it will go up so much in value. Because no bank daddy is coming in to make sure you think its safe while they invest in the market to make profit on your inability to avoid inflation", "Yep. I used to order shit during the old Silk Road days back in 2011/2012 when I was in college. I was fucked up on a lot of stuff back in the day. Lost my key that had like a hundred Bitcoin on it. I didn’t care because it was only worth like 50 bucks at the time. Also got fucked by mtgox a few years later. Makes me sick to think what it would be worth today. But there is no way I would have held onto it that long so it’s whatever.", "Ditto", "Imagine market selling 5 billion of any asset. Just no.", "Wow I remember hearing about this guy like at least 5 years ago. Sounds impossible, but I'm rooting for him.", "I stop watching after 51 secs", "Oh well? OH WELL?!", "This is my favorite comment!", "It’s funny money. $350M of funny money isn’t work $10M of actual.", "Ah he's looking for the brit he shit", "Irish Traveller types? So, you mean Irish Travellers?", "That's not how it would work - it would still be a lot of money but not close to five million", "Dude will find it under his refrigerator when he moves out of his apartment", "Lmao comedic timing from the dog", "All depends on the intent of the investment. Long term holds don't tend to pay out near as well as people think they do with big names like this existing.", "I've had the rubber part of my earbuds fall out on my wired set. Things can happen either way.", "Sooo how's he gunna pay for the huge search effort if they don't find it?", "Like what? What other thing has had a $2.3 trillion market value and then disappeared like a fart into the air?", "The drive is probably encrypted though, no? You’d need a password to unencrypt the drive first.", "I remember the really really early bitcoin days when there were public bitcoin FOUNTAINS that would give away free bits of bitcoin. I think I had 0.00002-ish bitcoin wayyy back then.", "1 mil won't let you live the rest of your life care free. 350 would.", "This is me exactly. When Bitcoin first became a thing, there was a faucet that gave you one free Bitcoin a day. Worthless back then. \n\nWhen it hit $1,000 I desperately searched every hard drive I had and would have for sure sold it.\n\nI never found it, but would have been way more frustrated if I sold it than I am having lost it.", "Lol. I had 2 bitcoin when it was around 700 dollars. Think it was around 2012. Even got into a bit of mining. Bought one of these asics: \n\nhttps://imgur.com/a/IivPZZl\n\nAlthough I never ended up using it. I spent the bitcoin on online purchases.\n\nIdk if it's still going on but back then you didn't just trade crypto coin, you could trade virtual hardware used to mine.", "It's a hard drive (HDD).", "No one's pointing out that \"mm\" means millimeters? \n\nWhy the fuck is MM in the title?", "Funny how the first front page story for “the news with Shepard Smith” doesn’t have Shepard Smith hosting. I forgot the dude existed. I kinda liked him too.", "Crazy idea. What if they put a wire on the ear buds. This way if one falls it can hang around your neck?", "Is there proof he lost it?\n\nBecause this would make a great investment scheme. Invest X dollars with the hopes to make 10X dollars. There's no guarantee he'll find the hard drive or that it will be working. Meanwhile he pays himself to supervise from the seed money or makes interest off it. So maybe the hard drive has no value, people just think it does.", "Honestly who throws away a hard drive? But really, they don’t take up nearly any space, have essentially all your information on them, and worth next to nothing on the second hand market. Like if you’re going to hoard anything, let it be hard drives.", "So you are telling me you could easily manipulate the market? Sell $10,000,000 worth of bitcoin. Watch it crash, then buy it back at a discount? Rinse/repeat every few months?", "Gota get dem 3 commas", "> harddrive-destroying-as-a-service\n\nlol it exists it's called go to home depot and buy a drill", "Reminds me of that Silicon Valley [episode](https://youtu.be/GrEjaZw95kI) where Russ is combing the landfill for his USB drive.", "F", "He has also been banned from searching for it citing environmental concerns of excavating the landfill.", "Oh so we're just making up bullshit now? lol.", "Because this is a \"now\" with how it works. Old keys were literally stored in cleartext in .txt files 10 years ago. \n\nYou can't at all recover them without physical access, there was no recovery systems at all.", "Many things false in this report\n\nThe council which owns and operates the landfill has not allowed any search for the drive", "\"It's just a little chemical erosion... it's still good, it's still good!\"", "my \\~10 bitcoin that I mined waaaay back on a cpu in a day are part of that. \n\n\nMined it one day bc I wanted to try out the tech, forgot it for a few years bc what I had was worth a fraction of a cent back then and somewhere along the way deleted the key file.", "I said the same thing about this couple...\n\n https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-lose-182m-euromillions-jackpot-23589563", "It's like the modern equivalent of that image of a couple splitting their beanie babies in court.", "It is though. It's been 7 years. He hasn't given up, but this story has been going on for a while. He hasn't been allowed to dig through the tip until now, however.", "And this is the currency people think will compete with the US Dollar?", "Even if they were to find the hard drive, why do you assume it would be in good shape ebough to use and get the bitcoin off. It was likely crushed, torn, shredded, scratched. The chances of a flimsy hard drive getting from your home to birdied under landfill whilst still being useable are basically 0.", "Ouch my friends where talking about Bitcoin. When it was $500 I had a chance to buy in an instead I ignored myself and now live with regret but hey it’s all good", "The ideal scenario is buying them as a joke and forgetting about them until today... Where you suddenly remember you had a few btc.", "Actually you can. There is plenty of liquidity for 5B. I believe you're talking about the alleged 1 million coins that Satashi is supposed to have which would be very difficult to sell off but there is actually very little evidence this is even true as well.", "What are you even talking about? Over 400,000 BTC are traded daily. Yes, you couldn't just go to an exchange and market sell 100,000 BTC without flash crashing that exchange, but you wouldn't drop the price in half by selling 10,000 BTC over a week or two. This is the dumbest shit I have read in a very long time.", "Which is why we have progressive taxation.", "Reminder that crypto=ponzi, the \"gains\" people \"make\" only come from more people buying in and not from any actual value generated by the asset, and the value would evaporate if the amount of new buying tapered off below the selling\n\nThis comment courtesy of /r/Buttcoin", "Options are 1. slowly over a few months to not crash the price 2. Sign a contract with someone and transfer it at market value to someone, not through an exchange. 3. You don’t and take out loans against it and live life however you want.", "Indeed. But if it was 3%, then it would be \"worth it\". lol.", "If he comes across the leads though, Michael and Dwight would greatly appreciate it.", "I'm one of those. I'd be a multimillionaire but somewhere along the way I lost my usb key with my bitcoin. What are you gonna do? Gotta live your life, right?", "If you've got time it would be better to sell it chunks. Here's a site that shows some order books for some of the major exchanges which handle bitcoin: http://bitcoinity.org/markets You can sell roughly ~30 million and drop the price by $1000. In other investments that might trigger a downtrend in the price but Bitcoin tends to pop back within days.\n\nIt wouldn't be a very practical way to do it if you wanted to sell all 80,000. But the U.S. government has auctioned off over twice that much Bitcoin since 2014. See: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/us-seized-record-1-billion-bitcoin-year-ago-value-tripled-rcna7574", "Beanie babies.", "This seems a bit exaggerated. Binance alone, has a daily trade volume in the tens of thousands of BTC ($500M), sometimes more. Sure, if you put in a single market sell order for thousands of BTC, you'll crash the price on that specific exchange - that actually happened on Binance.us earlier this year (the price recovered in literally minutes).\n\nBut if you split it up between multiple exchanges and slowly sell off the coins maybe 10-100 at a time throughout the day, you could probably offload at least a few thousand coins per day without significantly affecting the price, which would get you your $5B out over the course of maybe a few months to a year.\n\nThat said, there are only a few (like, 3) BTC wallets with that level of funds, and they are all closely monitored. So while the actual trade volume itself wouldn't necessarily crash the market, the news that one of those massive wallets was liquidating could well cause other people to panic sell, which definitely could crash the market.", "Likely never gonna happen. Satoshi is likely dead. Even if we was alive, and wouldn’t dump it all in one go, if they were even possible. He’d have to sell small bits over a long time which would just get absorbed by the market and wouldn’t even affect price.", "Or people who bought on highs and are speculating for future gains.", "> You literally just ... can't.\n\nEh that's not true. The U.S. government has sold more than that:\n\nhttps://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/us-seized-record-1-billion-bitcoin-year-ago-value-tripled-rcna7574", "You can spend it in exchange for goods and services. It is a currency.", "I've heard both tbh. Lol. I'd imagine a flash drive.", "Wire headphones have better sound quality anyway. We were scammed with wireless headphones. The quality of sound did not carry over", "The date to register in the claim is long past.", "Metamask is literally an electronic store of your private keys (aka a wallet). What are you talking about?", "Ahh\nThe plot thickens...", "Wouldn't this still require there being people willing to trade billions of dollars for bitcoin. I struggle to believe the demand exists.", "Sort of like stocks? Bezos can't cash all his stocks without major repercussions. I'm pretty sure there are actually rules that he has to announce when he's selling and how much, or over a certain amount, anyway. So he has billions, but it's not like he can liquidate all of it on a whim.", "Awww.. Ant pillows.", "How dumb are you", "It’s ok. I can understand why you’d think that. You dumb as hell", "aka most crypto coins.", "If that hard drive has bitlocker (windows) or some other protection good luck trying to access it", "You would sell most of them in OTC trades hundreds at a time to major players. Some you would sell by just setting tiered selloffs on every major exchange. \n\nIt might take a few months to sell it all, but you would be able to extract all the value. $5 billion is a ton of money, but it is only half a percent of the BTC marketcap. As long as you weren't dumb you could sell it without crashing BTC for sure.", "Bill gates: \n> [I can understand wanting to have millions of dollars, there's a certain meaningful freedom that comes with that, but once you get much beyond that, I have to tell you it's the same hamburger.](https://youtu.be/rZWql53Fsys?t=76)\n\nPlenty of studies have found that the happiness that comes from money heavily drops off above the $70k per year mark. After that, good relationships with friends and family, and having some sort of purpose in your life and career, are much stronger predictors of happiness.", "Oh no! \n\n\n... anyways", "Garbage melon", "Oh yeah. Because different sites have reported different things I'm dumb. \n\nHow many computers have you built? Unless it's over a couple hundred (I work IT) let's reevaluate who knows more about computers.\n\nEdit: damn yall twisted. Lol. Ffs", "It’s honestly the hilarious part of this, if he hadn’t lost it he would have certainly sold some/most of it way before it got this high.", "You should be happy you weren’t part of a massive scheme", "All lost Bitcoin's value is essentially distributed to the rest of the accessible Bitcoin.\n\nIt's basically a donation to everyone else that holds some.", "$350 million will buy you a lot of goons", "Galaxy buds do this", "Best response easily", "You just subpoena the miners. This isn't anything magical it was built into Bitcoin. Satoshi already mentioned this.", "That’s exactly why I got them. Everyone always complains about how “BuT wHaT iF yOu LoSe ThEm!?” Then if you’re not comfortable with your ability to not lose something you spent a lot of money on, don’t buy it. It’s as simple as that. Find a version you won’t lose.", "Dude isn’t this The same story from 2016?", "Schrodinges Bitcoin", "Thanks news for blowing up this guys spot", "Yeah bud, you're one of the rubes. You're the guy who buys into the hype and is going to be left holding the bag when the people who got in ahead of you sell their shares in your coin of choice, leaving it worthless. Are you familiar with the concept of a bank run? Basically that's what's going to happen to you, but it'll be intentional. EDIT: Actually the south-sea bubble might be a more accurate example, but you get the point.\n\nThe best way for you to make money is being lucky enough to sell at a higher value than you bought in, before the run starts. That's what makes it gambling, you're basically just trying to time a uniquely volatile, corrupt market. If you do make money it'll be due to luck. But degenerate gamblers don't believe in luck so most crypto-rubes will eventually go bankrupt just like anyone does at the slots. Or you're on the inside of a grift, in which case you're a piece of shit but at least you understand what's going on.\n\nAnd again, you aren't gambling with off-track betting or numbers games; your \"investments\" (lol) are tremendously wasteful and damaging to the environment. A moral gambler would divest and just roll bones, play cards or pick penny-stocks. But you aren't so yeah m8 I honestly don't really have much sympathy for those like you who have already gotten hosed.", "Holy shit you just reminded me someone offered me the same years ago, I’m pretty sure I told him not to bother because I didn’t feel like setting shit up. Whoops.", "There is a difference between a couple hundered milllion and multiple billion, but yes, it does happen. Probably the most publicly known example as of late is Michael Saylor: [buying 5050 BTC](https://www.cityam.com/michael-saylor-buys-up-another-5050-bitcoin-for-microstrategy/) and [7002 BTC](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/michael-saylor-microstrategy-crypto-bitcoin-buy-holdings-sell-stock-2021-11) in the span of a couple of months.", "I drop and try to find my contact sometimes when I put it in. I feel the pain.", "Galaxy buds at least have a find feature if they're connected to your phone.", "And I can tell you that my happiness increased significantly as I exceeded $70k. Guess that disproves Gates then.\n\n>Plenty of studies have found that the happiness that comes from money heavily drops off above the $70k per year mark.\n\n[Plenty of studies have also disproven that.](https://www.verywellmind.com/happiness-doesn-t-top-out-at-usd75-000-study-says-5097098)\n\nhttps://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2016976118", "Thank you 🙏 I respect that very much", "Somehow he has better chances of this than winning the lottery", "IT guy just chucks HD in the trash?... Hmmm", "Guy is a fucking retard to be honest then he quotes someone who was the richest man in the world like that means something", "Imagine finding it, only to discover its corroded to the point of being nearly unsalvageable, and then using a data-recovery service, only to have them cash in on the bitcoin and flee to a non-extradition country.", "Trading volume for BTC in the last 24 hours was $22,233,596,658.14.\n\nHe could drip sell it easily enough, the issue would be people noticing that the Patoshi Pattern coins moved at all. Might crater confidence in BTC.", "The Curse of Trash Island. I see 10 speculative seasons in their future.", "They're not in their right mind tho", "Same way you’d sell billions of $ worth of stock. Slowly over a long period of time.", "Depends, if you came across it randomly then sure, if the guy hired you to help look then that would be under the scope of your employment and you would just be entitled to whatever he's paying you.", "Currency of da future", "Assuming that's your account any activity on it would create fear and uncertainty which would crash the price (maybe even forever). I assume it's the most monitored bitcoin wallet. Doing anything with it would cause it to be worth much much less", "I had a friend recommend I invest when it was $500", "The only person using the word impressive is you Einstein. Twice now.", "Been there, done that. Recovered data on all my drives. I used to mine it on my cpu then eventually my GPU. I have about 150btc in the air.\n\nWallet is lost, not to mention the password. I did full on data recovery on drives I put through a 7 pass dban. It didn't work.", "A million dollars doesn't let me quit my job. 350mil does.\n\n70k is an \"ok\" life if you're single or married and your wife works without kids.", "This post gave me my first spit-take lol.", "I know the pain. I have my hard drive. Wallet was deleted years ago, and even if I could get the wallet back, no clue on the password. I'm not sure how many coins I had, how much did ~50 bucks buy shortly before pizza day?", "No, but I'd definitely buy a few.", "Galaxy buds have a find my earbud if you drop them. I dropped the entire case and my earbuds went scattering in the warehouse I work in. I went under the app and saw they had a find my earbuds. The earbuds chirp like baby birds till you locate them. They had gone under a couple of pallets. I would never have found them on my own.", "Last I heard he had been denied permission to search the landfill. I guess he must have finally gotten it. Good luck to him.", "> The best way for you to make money is being lucky enough to sell at a higher value than you bought in, before the run starts\n\nYou just described all investments, as well as betting. Astute.\n\n\nYou sound like you're having a bad day. Take care.", "Dig It up up on diggity", "Thought this was just a skit on Silicone Valley. Didn't realize that fantasy was following reality so closely.", "This is the current state of money, just in a purely digital form.\n\nOnly reason crypto, and only reason that dollar bill in your hand, are worth anything, is because we all agree it's worth something.", "Tell us about the drugs", "What do you think the hard in hard drive refers to? I couldn’t find any articles that referenced it as a usb, thumb, or flash drive.", "The company that operated my wallet took my money and didn't give me any BTC. It was only a couple hundred bucks, but it pissed me off.", "Everything else aside, the hardrive is probably damaged, and will require some advanced data recovery to even get it off.", "Mine come with sound tracking through an app! Highly recommend the galaxy buds plus if you ever need a new pair.", "Honestly, there's so much factors in what may or may not have happened to this HDD that it's barely worth theorising about. Disk repair is pretty advanced and these keys are incredibly small, so there's a good chance even if it's fucked, they'll be able to recover that. But if the right plate got damaged in the right spot, those chances can quickly drop to zero.", "What would happen if you tried to sell 7,500 bitcoins right now? But they're actually beat buyers? Could you actually liquidate that entire amount right away?", "You start by assuming 1 bit is wrong.\n\nTest every bit with its opposite. 256 possibilites done in nanoseconds\n\nIf that doesn't work, assume 2 bits are wrong. 256^2 possibilities. Easy for computer.\n\nAnd so on. Obviously you'll hit a wall very quickly, but as long as the thing is mostly intact, it's recoverable. You don't have to brute force the entire 2^256.\n\nOf course once you get to 6-7 bits it becomes totally intractable. But for a wallet \"worth\" $350 million (not really, since you can't liquidate it that quickly) they'll throw a lot of computing power at it.", "Hang on. Landfill means who knows what state the HD would be in if they even found it. Would it not be fucked?", "Yep I bought in when it was $450 a BTC. I sold when it was $1800 and kept some to buy drugs with. When it skyrocketed from $1800 to $6k I bought some really nice MDMA and still had enough left over that when it went from $6k to $14k I bought more.\n\nQuestion is did I profit or did I lose out?", "This is not quite as “narrow” as you’d imagine. Also, trucks frequently do not dump in the same areas if another is open at the same time but physically closer to the entrance. \nSource: I once researched how landfills work to understand how it works when police look for bodies & crime evidence.", "So when you create a wallet the computer spits out a \"key\" which is really just a set of random words. If he had written down these words on a piece of paper for example he wouldn't even need the hard drive. He could restore the Bitcoin wallet from any computer.", "it's exactly like billionaires with stocks and companies. They can't just cash out the billions in assets they have unless they want to crash a huge part of the value. also, no one would care if they cashed out on 1 million of it. that's only 1/5000th the value of the wallet.\n\nfinally, they can just spend it directly if Bitcoin every catches on to be used everywhere, and pass it on to his kids when he dies.", "You would be surprised \n\nhttps://drivesaversdatarecovery.com/company/museum-of-bizarre-disk-asters/", "This story inspires so many questions about the nature of happiness and what's important in life.", "Wow. That really is like a modern day treasure hunt. Hunting for The Satoshi’s Legacy", "Do you think most people especially the age that watch local news know the difference between hard drive and flash drive? Which do you think a local station would say to get people watching? \n\nAnd maybe they've been updated. But I saw this story previously stating flash drive/USB. Hence my statement.", "Using my remote viewing its next to a fridge in the dump.", ">The password (private key) is what they're looking for. If someone found the hard drive and kept it, they could cash it in.\n\nNah, not necessarily, it really depends what they mean when they say hard drive - if it is something like a ledger it still is protected by a PIN. If it's an actual hard drive I'd be surprised that it still works lol", "No one says that. They write MM. Writing and speaking are different activities. \n\nIf you trace the chain of cause and effect back far enough, it's because the Roman numeral for \"thousand\" is M. Most Romance languages still have a word for 1000 that starts with an m.", "I threw away my old HDD circa 2013 that has ~110BTC on it that I had mined up till that point. It's pretty sad to think about, but life is full of missed opportunities...", "How long would it take to brute force a key", "I've got these little old Rowkin earbuds. They're like 7 years old now or something, but they still work great. The only problem was that they would fall out of my ear, so I did have to rebuy one pair. Since then, I've started jamming them in one ear so much to make sure that they don't fall out that I noticed recently thatr the size of my ear hole in my right ear is bigger. I rarely put the one in my left, but when I do, it doesn't go nearly as deep and still falls out sometimes. The right one never falls out anymore.", "Is this a situation where if those coins weren't lost the price of bitcoin would be lower? I don't really know how that works.", "What is this!?!? A breather hole for ANTS!?!!", "Junkyard magnets can be 1T it looks like. Pretty strong. Though idk if a regular dump would use junkyard magnets.", "My 60 year old dad does, and he’s terrible with computers, so yeah I do. How long have you worked in IT?", "Congratulations, you are clean of 1% of the world's electricity use. 99% dirty is a really nice place to look down from eh.\n\nEdit: BTW stop replying, you are killing endangered species with that energy.", "Err, I would be more concerned by how jostled it would have gotten. I would assume it’s gotten fucked up physically and the platters would be destroyed. Then with all the liquids it’s been exposed to…\n\nIt isn’t worth the effort.", "And? It's the internet. People say kys all the time. It's not something to ban over", "I never said it completely stops, I said it \"heavily drops off\".\n\nYour article is misrepresenting the study, which says\n\n> Here, over one million real-time reports of experienced well-being from a large US sample show evidence that experienced well-being rises linearly with log income, with an equally steep slope above $80,000 as below it.\n\nI.e. there is an exponential drop off in happiness for each additional dollar of income. Maybe the person who wrote the article doesn't know what a log is?\n\nThe article also seems to contradict itself, here are some direct quotes:\n\n> Mental health experts say happiness is a multifaceted experience that's achieved through mindset—not money\n\n-\n\n> So does that mean money can buy happiness after all? Not necessarily.\n\n-\n\n> achieving high levels of wealth doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be any happier, says Dr. Ditzell\n\n-\n\n> Happiness and emotional wellbeing are multifaceted experiences. That means there are many ways people can find greater satisfaction with their lives—regardless of the size of their paycheck. \n\n-\n\n> It comes down to having a deep understanding of what you want to achieve in life and going after it with a sense of purpose. \n\nSeems like this all agrees with what I said? Money makes you happier, but there's an exponential drop off and after a certain point it's better to spend your energy looking for purpose in your life.", "Any day now.....", "$200 billion is inaccessible? Well hope it helps reduce inflation at least", "Any particular…reason you did this research? (Pleasedon’tkillanddismemberme)", "I have one share I bought at $310. I'm holding it forever so that I don't forget the lesson", "Jose!! You found it? Wait! I said a thumbDRIVE. That’s an actual thumb.", "I'd be happy if i could find my tv remote", "Not just worthless, but terrible.", "this is perfect", "/u/slimburrito", "Eh, I'm in IT, I'm not sure I would. I mean, it depends on the drive. If it's like my C drive with all the personal data shit on it I'd format it, at the very least, but if at some point I want to replace the old storage drive I save TV and movies on? Fairly sure I'd just bin it.", "I’d either A) keep searching B) kill myself", "Are you allergic to punctuation?", "Cold storage, that was the typical way to do it early on.", "It sounds like it's an actual hard drive. Ledger wasn't released until a year after this guy threw his drive away. Hard drives are surprisingly resilient! I'd be more surprised if he found it at all than if the data could be recovered.", "I’m definitely not one to put crypto on a pedestal. It’s just a tiny bit tough to realize that had I made a different choice I would not be a wage slave for the rest of my life. It’s be one thing if I was ignorant to the existence of Bitcoin before it blew up, but it’s another thing entirely when I just incorrectly dismissed it because i was lazy. \n\nThat said - it’s not worth dwelling on so I’m genuinely over it. As if I had any real way to know.", "He has to be fairly disappointed with his trajectory since then to be this desperate to re-write history.", "Ii definitely would", "this is literally a joke from Silicon Valley hahahaha", "He does work in IT. You bet your ass that drive was encrypted", "In regards to the coins don't most of the coins still have claims against them from European insurers (many of which are still around today)?", "The guy you originally responded to was asking how you could cash out, which you said was nearly impossible (only tens of millions), this is wrong.", "I heard about this.... I seem to remember reading he was banned by the council from sifting through the rubbish.... probably because they wanted it, not understanding it needs his credentials goals to access the fortune.", "Paper money is the same way too. You lose it, there's very little chance of recovering it.", "They have it narrowed down to a specific part of the dump", "And your father is an exception. Because most people that age up don't know the difference so media is going to use the terms people know the most. \n\n8 years. Started at a call center now work for one of the largest medical insurance companies.", "Hoarders everywhere breathing a collective sigh of vindication", "What happens when he finally finds it and the drive is so corrupted it can’t be read at all", "oof those are some heavy bags. Sorry", "They should be fined for improper ewaste disposal", "https://tenor.com/view/let-it-go-indiana-jones-sean-connery-gif-14497359", "/r/theydidthemath", "> I.e. there is an exponential drop off in happiness for each additional dollar of income. Maybe the person who wrote the article doesn't know what a log is?\n\nNo, you're the only one who doesn't understand what you're talking about lol. It's literally saying the exact opposite of what you're implying.\n\nIt literally directly states that there continues to be a linear rise in happiness, how are you possibly interpreting that to mean there is an exponential drop?\n\nHere's a page where you can learn about basic statistical modeling: https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/cwinship/files/asr_1984.pdf", "That didn't actually happen. [There was a woman who died](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi), but the idea that she was looking for the Fargo suitcase was made up by the media. It's a very sad story, and had nothing to do with the movie.", "So you’ve been working IT for that long and still need to ask for people’s help when building a $300 pc? Yikes", "I feel so bad for him. Not for losing money, but the mental anguish.", "But maybe that's how it should be. We can make a new cryptocurrency. The work involved would be to find the drives containing the cryptocurrency in garbage dumps, sewage lagoons, and any other place we can think of where only the hardiest of souls dare tread", "That's some rudimentary proof of work. But seriously how many people have moved to china and built factories or harnessed the excess gas to use as energy for mining operations. This guys digging through trash down the road for x100 amount you'd get from building any of those.", "This is not going to be seen but this is the plot of \"Holes\".", "The video is complete nonsense - the council have never let this Welshman look, he's never lifted a shovel in that landfill and probably wont!\n\nhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55658942", "You'd need more than $1mil to move the BTC price now. The recent dip saw a 1 hour volume spike to 31,600 BTC at around 50-42K each. So maybe $1.4 bil traded in an hour for a 5.4% dip. And that was just on Binance. \n\nIf someone dumped 80,000 in one order slippage would mean they would buy up the order book down to who knows what price (there probably is 5bil in orders on the books but if there wasn't it wouldn't really matter because it would just be one exchange so people would see other exchanges still holding value) at which point traders would enter in and a feeding frenzy would occur as they all scooped up discount BTC. Wouldn't cause a recession at all. Would cause one crazy looking 60 minute candle though", "How does one receive tips of crypto on Reddit?", "This is like a modern day treasure hunt.", "This, I have been successful in reading platters installed in another drive.", "This exactly. “No” or “yes” is infinitely better than “maybe”.", ">Furthermore, [CITATION NEEDED] that an OTC buyer for billions even exists.\n\nFor all his bluster Musk is the only one who might do it, and I can't honestly see him putting his money where his mouth is to the tune of several billion.", "This is basically the plot of Holes isn't it?", "I think it's very possible to recover the data from it. all you need is to make sure the platters with the data on it are intact which isn't that unlikely. The rest of the drive is expendable.\n\nAlso, the odds of finding it are going to be much higher with a larger search party. He needs to raise the rewards because $10 million is a paltry sum considering he's going to get $340 million.", "the tech behind them is the future tho", "That's a lot more work than just putting it on the drill press. Nothing short of the nsa is getting usable data from a drive full of holes. Even the nsa might only recover small fragments of random data", "He’s down bad", "He’s an idiot as you stated earlier. 17 years in I.T. on my end and a quick look through his post history confirms he’s asking for help when he couldn’t get his PC to boot…couldn’t even check his RAM.\n\nNonetheless, you are correct. It’s been stated multiple times it’s an HDD. At this point that drive and any data will be unrecoverable.\n\nIF it had been a USB drive it would have been rendered useless the moment anyone looked at it lol. Flash memory is notorious for bricking itself under almost any impact. I’m exaggerating a bit here lol.\n\nOh and I’ve built/fix thousands of computers in my experience, still doing it now for the company. 5 units every 2 weeks for new-hires :)", "I think the dude is being way too greedy. $10 million? LMAO. He should give the majority to whichever team finds it.\n\n \nThink about it: The difference for the life he's going to have- between what he's making now vs $50 million- is much more than the difference between $50 million and $340 million. \nFinding that drive should be his top priority, not trying to maximize how much money he's getting from it.", "It's a 50/50 shot. They either will, or won't find it.", "Hopefully it’s not on a seagate! No way it’s still working, they used to die in your computer after a year", "And that saved me honestly in one case, but not the attic one I mentioned. There is a thing (bug maybe) where if you take both out, and for example put left back in the case, then take the left back out, the phone won't connect to right to be able to play that tone. I tried over and over and couldn't make it happen after that. I just had to move the insulation all back and forth until I heard it rubbing on the sheetrock.", "I lost access to my wallet as I can't get into the Gmail address I set things up under. Google won't let me reset the password to I as I set it up on a laptop I used to have back in college. \n\nHad like £50k worth on that since I bought bitcoin super early but I've come to terms with the fact I'll probably never be able to recover that Gmail.", "A log is the inverse exponential function. If you increase linearly with the log of a variable, then you're talking about an exponential drop-off.\n\nI could be rude too, but I'll treat this as a [lucky 10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/) moment.", "Can you save me 10 minutes and let me know if they found anything?", "Cmos isn't common in the pcs we use. They never get moved. And if they don't boot we replace being we don't want to risk it being infected with malware. So yes an issue I never deal with I need help. \n\nAlso lol. 300? That's not buying my cpu. Let alone ram and gpu.", "So, if I had a drive I've formatted a few times since I've had a wallet, is it possible I could recover it?", "I want to read more on how you reached this figure (2.857%), can you please guide me to what should I look up? \n\nI tried googling “expected reward” but not sure I found the right results.", "Yes if that was the only sentence I wrote then I can see why you'd claim I described \"all investments\"... but I didn't. I clearly explained why you're a rube. \n\nLet me ask you something, how do you justify to yourself the ridiculous environmental cost to produce... nothing? Are you just incredibly desperate? Healthcare bills? Low paying job? Student debt? Housing precarity? I could sympathize with your desperation but crypto is a scam; it won't give you what you need.", "Yes, I'm aware that there are pros and cons to wireless earbuds. The pros far outweigh the cons in this case, and most issues with them being wireless are taken care of through simple mindfulness.", "I was buying drugs with BTC when it was £400 per coin, went through quite a few coins, did not have £1M worth of fun.", "Imagine going back in time and explaining this to the Romans", "You likely would have sold when Bitcoin hit $100 anyway", "Lol I have a great story around crypto similar to this. I mean I was in college from 2008-2012 and bitcoin was kind of whispered about at some point on some online pages back then. At some point in time I got into mining it doing research for my future phd studying an electronic form of currency as a potential future. Phd would have been in Econ and I would have started right after undergrad and it wasn’t uncommon to do prolonged research. Since it was budding and I was dual majoring in MIS I figured perfect get and I mean the currency is useless but the data was worth it. So I started out I was earning like .30 a day mining or maybe it was as low as .15ish. But basically that amounted to around one bitcoin. I remember it started slipping like down to .5 bitcoins and then eventually .3 or .1 bitcoins a day but the dollar value each day remained the same. I must have followed it for a few months and then I met with my advisor who said it was a stupid fucking idea and a digital currency would never work blah blah. So I mean I finished out maybe another week or so of research and was kind of starting to believe her and then I basically gave up, unplugged that flash drive and went on to divide my focus into three separate undergrad degrees and then basically an 11/10 job right out of school to go make a fuck ton of money in Seattle. \n\nSo anyways fast forward like 6-8 months into my new life in Seattle the year is like 2013 or maybe early 2014 by that point. I am living with my room mate and we are getting stoned and chatting about bullshit and he mentions something about the bitcoin price skyrocketing or something along those lines. I just let that sit with me for a while and was like oh yeah bitcoin I remember that shit. Anyways next day we are sober and I dump out the shoe box I had of like 100 old flash drives and said somewhere on here is some bitcoin lol. It took us like a week but we found them and long story short I paid off his student debt, my student debt, and my long time girlfriend at the time her undergrad debt. Held on to a bunch of coins too and a few years later sold them to put a little shy of a full 1.2 million in my pocket. Could have been worth more now in the longer term but was totally worth it because from that moment on I have been financially set and agile and have been able to not only drive my career further than my peers burdened by debt it take advantage of things like GameStop in ways they couldn’t. \n\nI understand the dream this guy is chasing and I wish him luck it really is super great on the other side.", "I bought a pizza from a delivery driver back in the day for a bunch of bitcoins that were just given to me over irc for nothing. I try to remember but it was at least 15. It was a papa John's large pizza. I like day trading so I learned not to think about what if situations but I have never again ordered from pap John's.", "or, since it's also bad, it should also be stopped, along with a lot of others things we do.", "Sweet reference bro", "I had an silicone case that my old JBL headphones came with, and the case fits very well in there. That has solved their slippery nature, and since I'm usually working in dirty environments it keeps stuff from getting in the charge port.", "Yup, there are companies that specialize in this, too.", "ROFL", "99% dirty is still better than 100%.", "Any updates?", "The mistakes I've made don't seem so bad now.", "As I wrote, they are generally airtight EXCEPT for a small hole which usually has a very fine filter on it and whose purpose is to allow air in and out if the ambient pressure changes. I shouldn't have called it a seal/valve, correct. I still think that if that hole is pointing down and your drive isn't completely submerged in water there is very little chance that a substantial amount of water gets inside.\n\nThere are helium-filled drives by the way.\n\nAlso, why do you think the magnetic coating will break?", "The data layer of a CD is not encased in plastic. Label-side damage has always been a huge issue when you leave CDs in your car.", "just another sick landfill addict", "2.857% was just 10M divided by 350M. The percentage will change on a case by case basis. If you had something worth $10 that was lost and the odds of you finding it are 25% then your expected value is $2.50. So you should only search for that item if the search will cost you less than $2.50 in expenses.", "Correct, Bitcoin core wallets at the time was typically in an unencrypted wallet.dat file. Really easy to find and not protected in any way.", "I thought I lost 5K a little while ago and couldn't sleep well for a couple of weeks. I could imagine what 350 million would do.", "IIRC theres like 2 or 3 companies in the world who recover damaged HDDs", "It’s your post history, not mine fam", "Peak still 😂", "Thank you for your sacrifice", "I didn't really need an analogy lol. Like it's bitcoin. And turning your house upside down is different than living in anguish for almost a decade.", "HFSP!", "The likelihood of that drive being found is extremely low. The likelihood of the drive being salvageable if it is found though is very high.", "Isn’t this literally a plot point in one of the seasons of Silicon Valley?", "Bit thrown. That inflates the price of the USD how?", "Mwahahaha-mwahahahahaa\n\nBwahahahahahaaaaaa!\n\n^(I just wanted to do an evil laugh & feel included)", ">Nobody just saves their private keys in cleartext. \n\n\n\nI can assure you that there are multiple $100 million+ security companies in business because of exactly this.", "Just like the stock market you would need liquidity and it would depend on the order books. He definitely would be able to cash it all out if he wanted to but that would be stupid.", "His wife, kids, and employer learned how too though.", "Could you imagine throwing over 300 million in a garbage can? I'd go nuts, too", "Bitcoin has gone up 10x since 2018, not 100x. Either your btc was worth $50 back then, or it's actually a .0009 bitcoin tip and it's worth $50 now.", "I was under the impression a lot of trash is mulched and like shredded before put into the actual landfill", "And I'm not worried about it. Lol. You tried to point it out and I explained why. 🤷‍♂️", "Man must be looking just like Gollum by now.", "If that landfill was narrowed down to a specific plot, fuckin a, baby. I'd be single cause I'd smell like trash everyday.", "I just read about this guy the other day, he had like 8k bitcoin and at the time of the article it was worth half a billion dollars. The local legislature wouldn't let him dig even if he gave the community a percentage.\n\nHe even employed the help of the head superintendent of waste management (at the time) after he retired. The waste management dude basically said he knows approximately where it would be. I also learned that dumps aren't a disorganized mess. While yes large swaths can be cluttered mess they do keep a log of what went where, etc.", "Those are usually cheap to replace though.", "Yeah. It really did a number on me for a while. Back then I didn't cash out too much and kept most of my money online. I'd just cash out what I needed through Netteller and Firepay. I learned my lesson though and cash out often and just keep what I need online. Thankfully I was able to build back playing SNG's and 5 card draw on Stars. 5 Card Draw on Stars was the easiest games I've seen. Even when I was really down mentally and recovering from what happened, that kept me going both financially and mentally.", "Stock market.", "I think I heard about this on the radio some time ago. Dude was with his mum and I think she threw it out and at the time he didn’t really mind until Bit Coin exploded. He asked the British government to help him out finding it and if they did he’d donate some of the money to them. They refused because they don’t know if he’s falsely claiming it or if the computer even survived being in the landfill. This was the beginning of this year so if it’s just happening now I think the man is shit out of luck…", "I remember a story from about 5 years ago. Guy bought bitcoin as a novelty, threw away HD a few years later. \n\nAmount he had was worth $8m, and dude was spending every spare moment combing his landfill.", "DCA applies to everything. Sell a little bit over time. If you have that many though, and you want to sell immediately, you can probably go into an off-exchange contract to move the bitcoin to someone for like 80-90 cents on the dollar. That would be their risk premium for liquidating the coins for you.", "[https://twitter.com/raydalio/status/1380881662574272513](https://twitter.com/raydalio/status/1380881662574272513)\n\nThis guy explains it well in two tweets.\n\n>Think of every decision as a bet with a probability and a reward for being right and a probability and a penalty for being wrong.\n\n&#x200B;\n\n>Normally a winning decision is one with a positive expected value, meaning that the reward times its probability of occurring is greater than the penalty times its probability of occurring, with the best decision being the one with the highest expected value.\n\nOr in another example, if I propose a bet to you, you roll a dice and if you get a 6 I give you 2 bucks. If you get anything else you give me 1 buck.\n\nYou may think that because 2 bucks is more than 1 buck, you should take the bet. But when you account for the odds your expected reward is 2\\(1/6) or 33 cents. Your expected penalty is 1\\(5/6) or 84 cents.\n\nBecause the expected penalty is greater than the expected reward, you'd be taking an unfavourable bet.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nAs for how to reach 2.857%, that's the probability of finding the hard drive that would make it a breakeven decision (the expected reward equals the cost, assumed to be 10M). Or simply 10M/350M.", "He employed the guy who used to run the dump after he retired and according to article I read the ex-waste management dude knows approximately where it is. Local legislature is what is holding him up not the logistics of the dig.", "Short answer. In bits. \n\nYou'd take the largest lump sum you could, possibly in another cryptocurrency.\n\nThen accept the loss on the remainder and wait for a rebound.\n\nThen repeat after the rebound.\n\nThis has the added bonus possibility of giving the new cryptocurrency you move it to a massive boost. The lump sum you manage to get out could get bonus growth on top.\n\nUnlike stocks where an owner just schedules well ahead of time they're going to sell and why so the market doesn't see it as a reaction to circumstances there would be no way to do it with cryptocurrency while staying anonymous.\n\nThere's also no benefit in taking out a small chunk, as it's the revelation that the wallet is accessible and more of the currency is liquid than previously thought that crashes the value,.\n\nUltimately though, in theory if it's 20% of total bitcoin unavailable the supply of bitcoin can only shoot up by 20%. The rational market drop would be 25% of current price sold of in small enough pieces.\n\nSo the incentive to keep it there for market isn't really there. More about staying anonymous is my guess.", "Or maybe it's propping up the corner of the couch by now.", "> To help this poor guy recover his millions", "$350 Million today, $29.34 tomorrow. \n\n&#x200B;\n\nReal Money, kids. Don't fuck around with Bitcoin.", "The hard drive is full of 4K gay porn", "The problem with this is that you probably wouldn't have waited until Bitcoin hit 50-60k to sell. I lost some but don't lose sleep over it because I'm sure i would have sold it really fast once it was worth something.", "The gollum of crypto 🤡", "This is one of the reasons I exclusively wear the kinds with the little hook that goes around your ear.", "Anyone in IT would know that a physical drive thrown out into a dump like that is probably as good as dead. Not only good luck finding it, but getting it back to spin and even have the data there not corrupted. Data recovery on drives is typically at least $1-2k on something as simple as a 1TB HDD, so imagine people spending thousands per drive they find when it may not even be the right drive.", "I owned 72 Bitcoin back in 2011. I sold when it hit $5.", "And who pays for all this work if it's not recoverable? That's the real problem.", "It works for pixel buds. So, yes it works for Android.", "This person in the thread https://reddit.com/r/videos/comments/retibr/_/hoa2mi5/?context=1 is arguing these aren't resources so you can't argue that they are.", "Found my flashlight!", "Nope….\n\nhttps://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55645408", "Ancient people who died of cold, heat, saber tooth tiger attack, minor infection, intestinal worms, didn't have dental care, and had to work 14 hours a day to sustain themselves? \n\n\nAttempting to dig through garbage for a massive fortune sounds like a luxury to me.", "Triple comma club", "Every time I start to fret about not buying $500 in Bitcoin in 2011 when I read my first article on what a thing it was supposed to be I think about stuff like this and about how I lose everything all the f****** time.", "I’d just buy my own country at that point and write the law to benefit myself... or more likely just cut a deal with a beach heavy country with no extradition or any other agreements with the US, UK, or any other place with an interest in putting claim over me or my newfound wealth...", "Math. Math says it like that. It’s how math works. Since the entire world runs on math, I would argue we all do.", "I’m kinda glad I didn’t buy Bitcoin 10 years ago as there is absolutely zero chance I would’ve had the forethought to properly store all the bloody passwords you need and I too would be a multi millionaire without any access to my multi millions.", "A little bit, but there's no fundamentals behind cryptocoins besides people's faith in their value.Meanwhile Starbucks stock may be based on people's faith in their earnings, but there are real hard assets which could be sold, meaning Starbucks stock should have some hard minimum value.", "Guy has already enlisted or otherwise secured a team to attempt a recovery if/when he finds it. Apparently that team says that so long as the disk isn't completely shattered they gave like 75-80% chance they can reconstruct it and retrieve the data. Since the file is so incredibly small the actual disk written partition would likewise be a tiny sliver so there for chances would be high that, at least that one part, being recoverable.", ">Trade volume is back and forth, not in one direction.\n\nThat isn't exactly how it works - every trade is in both directions. One party is buying and the other party is selling.\n\n>that actually happened on Binance.us earlier this year (the price recovered in literally minutes)\n\nThe event I was referring to here was on Binance.us on October 21st. Someone put in a market sell order for ~400 BTC, which crashed the price from $60k to $8k on that specific exchange (others were pretty much unaffected). The entire crash and recovery fits into a single 15 minute candle, which is the smallest tradingview will show me going back that far.\n\nAs for the December 3/4 crash, idk where you're getting your data, but I'm seeing a trade volume of about 10k BTC across those two days on Binance, with more on other exchanges, of course.", "[lmfao ok sure](https://www.gov.uk/debt-payments-from-your-wages)", "Guy has already enlisted or otherwise secured a team to attempt a recovery if/when he finds it. Apparently that team says that so long as the disk isn't completely shattered they gave like 75-80% chance they can reconstruct it and retrieve the data. Since the file is so incredibly small the actual disk written partition would likewise be a tiny sliver so there for chances would be high that, at least that one part, being recoverable.", "If it wasn't anonymous, yes", "Only people buying into it that aren’t controlling it are dumbasses", "it is regulated and gains from the sale of it are taxed in most places.. and the majority of people who were first interested in Bitcoin weren’t wealthy.. obviously now people who have the means to do so are able to buy more but this wasn’t a tool invented by and for the wealthy.", "This Bitcoin is one of the most ignorant things humans have ever done. I have no idea how something this damn stupid got popular.", "I lost my gloves this morning and was looking for them for over an hour until I gave up and said fuck it. I got new ones. I get home and as I get out of my car, I see them, right there, laughing at me, on top of my lawn tractor. \n\nI feel this guys pain, but wait till he finds it...it's gonna be a moment of bliss.", "I bought 4 shares of TSLA a few years ago when it was just $200 a share, before the split. My philosophy, when things seemed really good, was to sell half. \n\nI sold half, then sold half again, so I only had 1 left when they announced the split. So I bought 5 more instantly and the prices jumped in the following days. Then they split. And I sold half of the 30 or whatever shares I ended up with back when they got to 500 again, and I sold half again when cracked 1,200. \n\nThey are safe bets, so even if you lost all of the rest of the shares, you would still have a little profit. But you can always hold out for more and selling the little bit you have left as things keep going up up up.\n\nI didn't believe in Bitcoin when it came out, and after all this time I have to say I still don't believe in it. I don't like the basic idea, and it isn't a real currency, and it is a currency designed to help illegal activities, though you can still find legal uses for it too.\n\nIf I had a time machine, I would not have gone back and bought in.", "I sold mine a while back for like $7k. I don’t regret it. I got them for around $40 when I was in China bc my friends dad used to mine them. I’m surprised I held out that long. I think about it sometimes but there’s a lot of ‘what if’s’ in every aspect of life. And like you said, it’s all part of the chain to get things pumping.", "Pogs, baseball cards and other cards as a whole, comics as a whole.", "I'm brewing up a future NFT right now, I had quesadillas for lunch.", "What happened between you and your friend?", "Yeah, why I recovered my own digital pictures. 20years ago they wanted 3k.", "Last I heard he offered them a huge proportion of the value and they still said no. Can't remember the number but I think it was more than half.", "You can do it OTC (over the counter) trading. This way the coins can trade hands without hitting the market and causing a crash in the price. The other way to do it would be to sell a little at a time over a long time period", "Yes, but if you don't even have the bird in the hand, you can't afford to hunt for a missing 35-bird bush.", "Found my dignity.", "This is old", "so he's literally mining for BTC.", "Well the drive wouldn't work but you could open it up and scan the platters in a clean room for the data needed.", "Ask away. You could definitely get away with stealing the money if you are not too dumb about it.", "Thank you so much for explaining", "I did this too, but instead of the dump, it was the trash and instead of 350m dollars of bitcoin, it was how to finish lunch.", "It's his wallet and property. It someone accessed it they'd be guilty of theft, probably wire fraud and a handful of other things.", ">everyday thinking about what could have been\n\nLike when I talked myself out of buying $10k worth of Bitcoin when it was worth $2 because I thought “well, BTC looks like it could rise a couple bucks and I could double my investment, but the way my luck usually goes, it’ll become worthless the day I buy it so nah”", "There are absolutely some sort of fundamentals and entire ecosystems surrounding many cryptocoins. Of course there are far more that actually don't do anything but it's not fair to lump them all on the same boat. There are stocks on the stockmarket that go their entire lifespan without turning a profit and still have value.", "And if they found it in a landfill, they’d find it in one of the teams pockets", "I was one of those that after it dropped from 350 down to 180, kept saying it'll go back up, there's still value. \n\nI was wrong, but since I originally bought at $43 I was still pretty happy.", "Sell it over the counter.", "lost some keys in the snow 2.5 hours away from home. thankfully had a back up too go home with. went back the next day somebody found them for me and was on the trail i was walking down. LPT let others do the hard work.", "Didn't buy it didn't become worthless", "Next week on “Bloke Island”….", "Well i spent several bitcoins on drugs back around 2014. Dont think much about it tbh, i bought more in 2017 that ive just held. Been sober since then too", "ooooof", "Back in 2011, I spent 26 Bitcoin to buy two carton cigarette from a guy in Russia, and he scammed me, only sent me one carton.\n\nYeah I spent $1.5 million on a carton of cigarette.", "You grew up hearing about something that is 8 years old? How old are you?", "If you watch the video it says he's reached out to experts who say there's a good chance it could be read if found.", "He's actually already a millionaire and is Squid Gaming this shit for his own amusement.", "Lol nah, you’re full of shit if you are telling me you don’t say “million” and instead say “thousand thousand”", "That's amazingly possible. Can you imagine sinking 10M to find all that Bitcoin, thinking it was gonna be worth 350M, but ends up being worth like $250,000.", "But he’s only paying that if they find it. He isn’t out anything of they don’t.", "He won’t find it at this point.", "Found the law student!", "Lol wot", "It would make it to news. There could also be a load of people wanting to buy more or new people wanting in, which would stabilise the price or make it increase. Nobody can predict that ratio from where we are standing now, therefore nobody can say what direction it would go.", "Now THIS is Bitcoin mining!!", "i lost my mind, so if you happen to see it in your searches.....", "Just because there are examples of people securing their wallets with then lost passwords, it doesn't mean everyone was securing their wallets with passwords.\n\nThere are still people who keep their passwords for all their online accounts in a text file. My wife's grandpa is one of them...", "Even if he does find it, no way it's still functional. I'm not sure how their dump works but I know around here they compress the trash by driving over it. And then if you have rain and water filtering through the trash which doesn't mix well with metal and electronic components.", "LMAOOOOO", "I saved my passphrase in an email to myself. I bought half a Bitcoin when it hit $100 bucks. Then I lost access to that email when my internet provider cancelled my service for pirating a movie.", "it was most definitely recycled", "You are talking about using enough hashing power to reverse the transaction via a fork? Lol. Never gonna happen.", "One of the assholes who lost access to my coins way back in the day. I think I had 10 or 15 maybe. Is there any way to recover that at all other than finding the hard drive?", "Procrastinating in finals season like the rest of us.", "I would imagine if they have a team working on this, they are all under contracts that stipulate if they find it it is the property of the original owner, or something along those lines.", "Big if true", "I read that as Britsh I.T", "This thread is making me feel like I have a few bitcoins stored away from like 8 years ago lol", "If the platters are not damaged there is very high probably it is fine and very readable by a data recovery company. I’d be more concerned it was recycled or taken by someone if it had been processed through a plant. Then it means it was erased by someone who didn’t know or destroyed by a grinder for the raw materials.", "That is nowhere close to a guarantee of encrypting a drive.", "Nice false equivalence. Throwing something away is abandoning it. Throwing something in the trash and setting it out to be collected is not in the same realm of reality as intentionally hiding something inside of a plane.", "How is a Bitcoin stored in a hard drive?", "Is white trash considered offensive ?", "A friend of mine sent me some Bitcoin many years ago. It was the very early days, it was obscure and worthless. I installed the software, accepted them and saw I couldn’t really do anything with them. Just forgot about it. I sold that laptop, but I did back everything up beforehand. I still have the hard drive but it is dead. I’m not even sure it would matter or if it would be worth anything to try and get the drive working again.", "Dude just get a job", "Good luck. I struggle to find my disc when I throw it down the middle of the fairway about 50% of the time playing disc golf. Humans are not great at finding lost things.", "That might set up some interesting problems with other people’s abandoned personal data etc (papers abandoned because they are assumed to be buried in landfill or incinerated would be problematic if they were sold retrieved by a third party). I suspect the landfill isn’t allowed to sell off the contents.", "there are multiple references in the comments what the fuck are you talking about", "I hope this man finds his wallet", ">The ones with metal platters are a bastard to pull apart and destroy \n\nNot with an impact driver and the right torx bit. About 10 seconds to open it up, plus you get free neodymium magnets!", "The total reward is $10,000,000. 2.857% is $10m/$375m, not the ratio of cost to reward. The ratio of cost to reward would be whatever it costs to search (X) to $10,000,000. So if it costs $100,000 to search, but the chance of success is less than 1%, the cost/reward would be out of balance. 2.857% is not meaningful here.", "Thank you, 2.857% is the wrong number to be working with here.", "My friend was showing me receipts for $200 BTC he was buying to spend on decentralised goods…", "Welcome to cryptocurrency, it's all fake and holds no actual value except to a very few select number of people.", "Is this what geocaching is?", "Vegas should have odds on this so people can place bets whether he gets it or not.", "i’m 22. just heard it awhile back (i don’t really remember the exact age)and it was referenced quite a bit over the years as i grew up, just crazy to think he’s been looking for so long", "Found my ~~flashlight~~ fleshlight!", "Except for their logic at arriving at 2.857% is flawed. See my comment above as to why. In short, he’s looking at the reward/total ratio. We should be working with (cost of search)/reward ratio vs the probability of success.", "Its like some Fargo treasure hunt.", "If you had the HDD, it'd be worth buying a gaming computer to slam 2m guesses/sec for the password, even if it was protected by something that couldn't be easily bypassed.", "Omg", "This is one of the perks of running encryption on all your hard drives. If you sell them or they've served their purpose you don't have to do anything, not so much as even a format if you're throwing it away. Without the key that data isn't going to be read.", "What would be incredible is if he woke up and forgot all about the past and moved on with his life.", "Yes, the helium filled drives ARE hermetically sealed. Normal drives aren't, especially when the plastic it's screwed into is deteriorating and cracking due to temperature changes.\n\nAnd the magnetic coating would get damaged by corrosion during the repeated wetting and drying of the disc. In addition, an unpowered drive will degrade over time naturally, as the magnetism will not stay active without electricity to keep it going. It's the same reason that you have to get a new credit/debit card every 6 or 7 years. \n\nHell, on that note, here's how badly my credit card that I've had for two years has corroded, I do not use the strip at all and it's in an RFID blocking wallet\n\nhttps://imgur.com/a/EgVmnvS\n\nAnd no, it isn't from rubbing against the wallet, here's a Postmates card that I've had in there for 5 years and only used for about 3 months\n\nhttps://imgur.com/a/2FbKRl0\n\nGenerally, even under optimal conditions, any magnet loses about 1% of its strength per year, and that decay increases anytime it is out of the range of 50-90 degrees. So even in the best case scenario, at least 10% of the data on this drive would be corrupted.", "I remember losing a hundred dollar bill when I was 16, with inflation its similar I bet", "Left my iPod on my connecting flight in Amsterdam. I'd like to think whoever found it is enjoying the treasure of music on there vs them just wiping it...", "This was years ago.", "I think if I was to find it, I’d bank on him giving me a hefty reward over keeping it and potentially getting a beat down", "buy $1 attachment so that your airpod can be dangling", "This is why you keep backups.", "Possibly the actual drive itself is fucked, but the plates in the drive might be ok. They can be put into a different drive by a technically-skilled person.", "The miners are in pools, which are pretty centralised. They are all within countries you can subpoena. This seriously isn't anything crazy but hey, maybe your imagination can't deal with something so craaaaaazy. \nWatch it happen. Its a public transparent ledger, no one is being cheated. If you can prove ownership, you can get ownership, just because you think its on blockchain doesn't change anything.", "This. Oh, mine also have 16 hours play time (yeah, playtime) and cost less than $50. Better form, better function, but they won't impress people at the coffee shop...", "The worst part, as BTC continues to climb, the value of that lost hard drive increases. It's like the ultimate painful sunk cost fallacy. The longer it takes you to find it, the more it's worth spending to try to find it.", "Yup, just took my Property final on Friday. In the library now \"studying\" for Civ Pro tomorrow.", "So my mom lost a contact lens in the snow in the dark while walking in from her car. It was a hard lens (Vs the tiny soft lens). Her mom then went outside with a flashlight. Found the tiny hole the lens melted in the snow and walked back in with it. What a hero- miss you mommom.", "The odds of him having kept that much of his holdings is so slim. He’d have sold way sooner than the past two years.\n\nSucks to be him and all, but let’s be real.", "yea.. somewhere beside my car in a 6 inch snow drift. (they fell out taking off my hat, so they didnt fall straight down).", "People obviously understand the potential utility of blockchain based currencies. \n\nBut when the value store of the coin fluctuates wildly from week to week, the process of checksums is time and energy consuming and the bar for safely storing and using your Bitcoin is a higher understanding of cyber safety than the general public possess: it is easy to see why people don't consider it a currency.", "People who work first line support tell me they work in IT...nope you answer the telephone. IT is a broad area and there are some real dopes working in it.", "Huh, that's really annoying. Did you try turning blue tooth on and off?", "That’s over $100Bn lost in space \nWhich is still 1/7th of the USA’s annual military budget", "Can't blame him a bit", "You're not an idiot. You made a reasonable, logical decision given the information available at the time. \n\nYou're just a really unlucky fucker.", "I know a guy that works in QA that stores his passwords on a notes app in his phone lol", "stupid fuck", "What exactly is Bitcoin, and how can you really tell if there are 7500 real Bitcoin or just 3 folders labelled Bitcoin on a floppy disk", "Well a couple coins is $100k… I’d be happy to do the work for 50%", "For 350 million it's worth it! Ma from 2013 to the present? Dude, you're screwed!", "It’s not dumb. Several years ago, a massive tornado hit a town near us, damaging thousands of computers and hard drives. A nearby college that trains people in digital forensics was able to recover almost all of the data from the hard drives and return them to people. Granted, a landfill and a tornado are far from the same thing, but it’s not beyond the realm of possibility.", "I bet $350,000,000 he never finds that hard drive.", "Do loans even accept Bitcoin as collateral? It's way more volatile than regular stock market.", "i’d be lost without my gmail account. so many times i’ve found an old lost file thanks to a random email attachment. years ago my hotmail account and all the email in it was deleted after just 30 days of not using it", "I think someone is gonna find the thing in the year 2320, use some kind of atomizer to recover the contents and be worth over 17 intergalactic gigglenuts", "I haven't talked to him since that day. After that day I didn't talk to anyone except my mom and dad and my sister for about a year or so and even then, I didn't tell them what happened until a few years later.", "Yes, and the more that get lost make the rest more valuable.\n\nIt is also compounded by the fact that it takes exponentially longer to mine new bitcoins, so lost caches of just fractions of a coin can quickly become worth a fortune.", "But with stock, people don't normally havr to sell it to get money. They instead take out loan and use the stock as collateral. This is also how they can avoid paying any taxes since there is no gain here (no stocks were sold, and you don't tax debt).", "Its a bold strategy cotton, lets see if it pays off!", "Same problem though isn't it?", "Wasn’t this a Silicon Valley episode?", "Got it back though. Mine is somewhere lost in a Costco….", "I'm gonna be honest, pillow for ants is a damn apt description", "you’re also holding on juuuuuuust in case, right?", "80000 bitcoin is not that much if you didn't sell it all at once. The daily trading volume for bitcoin globally is 20 billion usd. A bigger impact would be the fact that Satoshi has access to his bitcoin and its believed he would have mined over a million bitcoin in the early days, but nobody can know for sure what wallets belong to satoshi", "this man will never stop hahaha i heard about this a year ago", "Also the past, its just databases", "It’s not a question. Every party involved would have to volunteer their time and resources. No one would get paid unless it’s recovered. The guy himself may try to fund whatever costs he can, but the government (rightfully) will not extend any superfluous funds or resources.", "I promise you, plenty of people have a notepad document titled \"Passwords.txt\" on their desktop. There are plenty of highly successful corporate security awareness training companies that make millions off of teaching phishing and password best practices.", "over the counter trading. Unloading that much on an exchange would take a very long time and probably impact the price", "its not dead. i spend the money to recover the data. unless it melted. data can be recover", "Oh trust me, the demand for bitcoin will only increase exponentially with time. Seeing that were over a trillion market cap when it's barely starting to get adopted by institutions is only the beginning", "If I were him and I found it I would keep pretending to look to avoid people coming for my money", "Which brings up another point: why is he looking for the hard drive? Didn’t he save the keys? If he didn’t write down his keys somewhere, and then tossed the hard drive, then he doesn’t deserve it. He’s too dumb to be rich.", "There's a flash drive in a Staten Island dump with 22 Bitcoin on it. I threw it out in 2010.", "Doesn't the pass code have limited attempts though? I swear there was a news article about this somewhere where a guy only had one attempt left on a multi million dollar wallet.", "If I were this guys i’d get 200 people out there and offer them all 1 million if the hard drive is found in operable position. Better then a lottery ticket.", "Russ Hanneman feels their pain{\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKXqZh43OH8", "The story said he threw it out in 2013 right? Bitcoin hit $10 over a year before that, so there's no way he didn't know it was at least somewhat valuable.", "Are you aware that people affected by Mt gox are getting paid, there was a lawsuit and some funds were recovered and are to be paid back to the affected customers", "> The U.S. Marshals Service says it has sold off 187,381 bitcoins in nine auctions since 2014.", "I still have an LUKS encrypted HDD from 2012 where I can't remember the password, good chance there is a wallet from mining on there. Unfortunatly the password is about 30 characters, haven't been able to crack it yet, last time i tried was 5 years ago, maybe in 10-20 years my GPU will be strong enough.", "after years in a dump that drive is not going to be in operable condition. Even a great datarec company wouldn't stand a good chance of recovering the data off it.", "I’m surprised Superstonk isn’t downvoting you into oblivion for even questioning their ways lll", "why cant i find that story about the lady who threw away the winning snickers bar wrapper... am i dreaming... someone remembers that nfl snickers wrapper story. gd help me!", "Why would you, though? It’d be so much easier and safer to just pull it out as you need it. Even if you were pulling out $100k here, $1M there, it’d be no big deal.", "He threw the HDD away when they were worth basically nothing though. \n\nOdds are, had he kept access to the HDD, he'd have sold them all at $100 each or something.", "3-2-1- back up people", "There are places like Celsius that do. They also pay you in BTC for holding there so they can loan BTC out too. It’s like 3% APY", ">like a fart in the wind? \n\nROLLING DOWN THE STREET!", "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck", "Poor man lost his job, then Wife, then kid. Now he's lost his sanity.", "That was a great episode of popular mechanics for kids!", "Well now we’re talking about something else. Wouldn’t be surprised if you can secure credit against your BTC either.", "Yea, they could yank teeth out back in the day.", "Whoever is contracted to do it is probably doing it pro bono on the condition if the recovery is successful they get a % of the goods.", "Welsh rare Bitcoin", "How does one liquidate any Bitcoin, it's not like it's backed by anything?, I'm seriously asking, cause I never bought into Bitcoin even when I heard about it in the early days, cause digital currency backed by nothing, just seemed like a scam to me.", "A hardware wallet could do something like that. A wallet file has no way of enforcing an attempt limit.", "This otc buyer would be thousands of buyers who happen to have purchase orders at your selling price.", "My coworker has all his user names and passwords taped to the side of his monitor. To make it even worse, you can see he uses the same password for most of the sites.", "If I was him, I'd just think about the fact that I'd have definetly sold those bitcoins after they went 300% up, probably even earlier. There is no way I'd have held them until they're worth $350MM.", "So I did read the article?", "tens of thousands easily. If you honestly think 400,000 BTC are wash traded daily you are insane.", "Yeah, the controller is shot. The rest of it is still intact. I don’t want to waste anyones time if it’s not there. I only know that I had it, I’m pretty good about backups but I did not consciously go and back it up. I’ve mostly ignored bitcoin news because I’ve been salty about it for a while. I keep all hard drives from all systems now, but I was in a rush to get rid of that laptop for whatever reason.", "Shroedingers beanie babies", "Oh it’s going to $1000 one of these days. No doubt, no doubt in my mind.", "He is still at it? The logic board is most likely corroded to bits and those drives aren't water tight either...", "Just like a blade of grass", "I'm still angry over my Hotmail account being deleted. I had a bunch of my writing, a ton of poetry and several chapters of an unfinished story, saved in my Hotmail and nowhere else.", "Never tell me the odds!", "[Motherfucker, that's a job.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgYYOUC10aM)", "Isn’t this old? I thought he ended up finding it a while back.", "I've never lost a pair of over the ear headphones. They're great.", "Yes but probably not either let the man suffer in peace", "No one says that, the abbreviation says that. It’s a finance thing, a single M is one comma (,000) and MM is two commas (,000,000)", "Magnets strong enough to overwrite the VERY tiny magnetic domains on the platters which constitute the 1's and 0's.", "You better believe they would be taking contingency on $350M.", "I like the part where the news still doesn’t understand how the blockchain works", "given that Bitcoin is limited to 21 million total bitcoins, it's a given that most of them will eventually be lost.. people dying, without writing down wallet info etc... it will go extinct", "I always say this. I had well over 1000 btc at $2 a coin and sold at $6 shortly after and was ecstatic. If I was ballsy enough to hold longer, I couldn't imagine holding much beyond $100. Anybody buying btc back then never imagined it reaching this value", "Radio & TV engineer here. If you're listening to streaming mp3's on Bluetooth earbuds and claim you \"care about sound even a little bit\", you're kidding yourself", "350 millimeter dollars?", "Too bad tech trash is valuable and gets scavenged quickly to be shredded and melted down for precious metals.", "So you're saying there's a chance?", "Use this song and turn up the volume to max. You'll find your earbud immediately. You can thank me later. https://youtu.be/sHbvLOtwaOs", "In 2013 it was anywhere from $13 on January 1st to $946 on December 1st. So that's actually quite a huge variance, but it was still worth at least ~$90,000 at the lowest. There's no way he didn't know it was valuable.", "Travelers are an ethnic group here in Ireland- traditionally they would have travelled around in wagons. They're often- fairly or not- characterised as being miscreants, violent, etc", "Depends purely on the software. Later software often has anti-brute-force methods of various types.\n\n\"One attempt left and you're out\" sounds like an online wallet with unusually strict settings. Usually it's \"guess wrong and you have X amount of time before you can try again\" sort of thing. That's to stop naughty attackers firing up several AWS instances to slam the account with password guesses until it gives in. Most login stuff on the net today just has a time delay.", "I seriously considered spending a chunk of my tax return on it when I saw it was worth $4 (last I heard it was only a few cents).", "I believe it was Changetip, not Chaintip right? I used to participate in subreddits with that a lot back in the day (on a different account) and accumulated about half a Bitcoin overtime. I ended up selling it when it was at $9,000/coin.", "How much are 350,000,000 birds in the bush worth?", "Would it even work though?", "He's the bestest boy.", "I remember reading about him a few years ago. The fact that he can't give up the ghost is something else.", "Yeah….so? It’s the owner who’s looking for it he knows his password lol", "Plot for a terribly unsatisfying indie movie.", "Same. I hate to be depressing but I think I would actually kill myself or at least end up getting sectioned or something", "Honestly I couldn’t imagine the bitterness you’d have to overcome if you never found something like this.", "You will just be an armless, legless THING, won't you?", "Sell the rights to the shitty reality tv show. Get contestants to compete digging in trash for days on end. Or a Netflix documentary series. I really don't even know what's worse these days.", "“Mr. Hanneman! I found it!”\n“Nope, I said a thumb drive, that’s an actual thumb.”", "That would be keistering.", "Whoopsie", "The key \n\n(Password)", "Kim, theres people that are dying", "European here. WTF is 350 MM? Million Millions? Mimilions?", "Nice try, Satoshi.", "See, these are the stories that you never see. My friend tried to get me in around $70 because of how foolproof it was. And don't get me wrong - he made out like a bandit, and I would have too if I bought at $70.\n\nBut people act as though everyone involved made bank just because some people cashed in big. It wasn't worth the risk for me to make a few hundred bucks when I could have easily lost it instead.", ">If someone found the hard drive and kept it, they could cash it in.\n\nNo, you still need to know the password, most wallet software stored them encrypted.", "If he finds it, this becomes a movie, for sure.", "Wow, good job finding it.", "Dumb", "This takes buy high sell low to a whole new level", "Man I hate how this movie ended, Bill Paxton spent 3 years excavating for it and after he gave up that old bitch just tossed the hard drive back in the landfill.", "HAHAHAHAH", "Jeez! I mean good on you for good security practices, but real bummer. For now you could at least try a dictionary attack and hope for the best. Assuming it wasn't a bunch of random chars you used.", "This guy fucks.\n\nI'm looking at a lot of comments in this thread and this is the redditor doing all the fuckin'", "I don't know how you can not search for it, even casually.", "But not the random other people breaking into the landfill to look for it.", "This guy's gonna have quite the story to tell his grandkids if he doesn't find that shit", "This guy is gonna kill himself.", "Sure, you can launder that money.\n\n1. Exchange them via anonymous / shady exchanges into other cryptocurrencies, especially privacy coins like Monero / Zcash.\n2. Create an online store that accepts crypto - sell some digital goods or NFTs.\n3. Buy the stuff from yourself with the coins in step #1. Do it slowly at first, but then accelerate.\n4. Now you have both legal coins and some expensive NFTs. Just pay taxes, and you're good.", "I lost a pair of Ray Bans today so this is kind of comforting in a twisted selfish way.", "Right, but without any actual knowledge as to whether or not they are travelers.", "How much was it worth at the time?", "Might find it easier if he dragged a giant magnet through the landfill.", "hmm who should I trust, the guy who enlisted experts and has spent 10 years trying to determine if this is feasible, or the random person on reddit who says it’s impossible", "Gravy", "The same kind that spends hundreds of thousands trying to dig up a lotto ticket he threw out years ago.", "What was the song that helped you find it?", "I would at least hope that it's common practice to additionally encrypt your wallet so that unlocking it requires a passphrase.", "radio and audio producer, pretty much yes. It's not my preferred way of doing things but with that being said somethings help better than others. Bothers me that in order to have even remotely decent sound quality I gotta go in the $200 range minimum.", "Guy in the video is about to have some competition.", "Magic internet money is a better term that crypto currency haha.", "They found copies of the ET video game buried in a trash dump 25 years ago, using the exact same methods, in nearly perfect condition, so that not true.", "Ya, the government won't sign off on that.", "That's because he used iron key. It's like an encrypted hdd.", "That's not what happens in modern landfills in the US. Some facilities will separate out recyclables from the garbage (and that's done largely by hand) but most stuff is left entirely as-is and literally dumped into a pit, then covered.", "Knew exactly what it was", "If they could find where the ET video games were dumped, this guy probably can find a hard drive", "I'm pretty sure I lost a couple of wallets. Back when it was new I was mining it a bit. Then I lost interest and whatever was in the wallets wasn't worth the fees.... Now it's probably worth it and then some. Sad I can't even remember any of the details.", "This is all in response to u/Appropriate-Proof-49's hypothetical of having to spend a large sum of money upfront to get this search underway. I don't suspect too many people/organizations would be very keen on participating in a needle-in-a-haystack search without pay in the meantime even if the potential reward is astronomical.", "Ten whole dollars bucks?", "They don't know how it works. Bitcoin you own is not stored on your computer or phone. What you are likely to store on your computer or on a piece of paper in your safe, are the private keys to the wallet, which is just a bit of information stored in the public Blockchain online. Without the keys you can't access the coins.\nThink of it as one of those boxes you can get at a bank to store your valuables. Imagine it has a combination that only you know, not even the bank knows it. You saved those numbers on a txt file on your hd but you threw it away.", "If they can find the E.T Atari carts then he could probably find a hard disk.", "Good write-up about this guy’s search in the New Yorker. “Half a Billion in Bitcoin, Lost in the Dump.”\n\nhttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump?source=search_google_dsa_paid&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NaNBhDvARIsAEw55hjBi9RlKwNOHQ5pjPbY3UQJDuoxfvdq_4tGOlMqVsqvv6nP1TkTNMoaAjrKEALw_wcB", "This feels like karma for throwing electronic waste in a landfill.", "We're comparing 99 to 1 not 100 lmao 🤡", "Different wallets have different functions, the wallets I've had in the past were password protected with unlimited tries, another said I had x attempts remaining, there was 1 time with an old wallet of mine that I used up 5 out of the 6 attempts, I closed the app and reopened it and the count reset, so I think it may have been an experimental feature on that particular app, although I never seen a need to test if it worked or not.", "My dad was paid partially in shares of apple when he was working there in the 90's He's still upset because he sold them at 15 times their initial value whereas if he had them now he'd be worth tens or hundreds of millions.\n\nI'm just like come on, you made the sale every investor has wet dreams about.", "Can you send pic of shih tzu please", "No electricity? How's your bottle cap collection looking?", "Is it not common practice to encrypt your buttcoin wallet with a passphrase? I know very little about bitcoin in particular, but with cryptographic private keys in general, e.g. for SSH or PGP, good practice is to encrypt them with a passphrase so that a recovered key file still needs to be unlocked with information that exists in your head to be of any use.", "Back in the days when someone would throw away 7500 bitcoin was back before seed keys and wallet passphases were common.", "When the Silk Road came out I was buying ounces of weed for 100s of bitcoins. History is still in my wallets. Pains me to this day.", "The memory would have been probably NZ$10000 or more. DRAM got really pricey at about that time, and this was 16Mb modules with ECC error correction from a reseller with a whopping markup ...", "> This is the dumbest shit I have read in a long time.\n\n\nI don't see why you voiced your negative thoughts about your own comment then posted it.", "As someone who has swapped hard drive platters on a full-sized HDD and successfully recovered my own data, I would have bet you're mistaken. However, in another interview, he states it's a laptop hard drive. Now knowing that I'll leave you with my favorite Jack Handy quote...\n\nIF YOU ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let 'em go, because man, they're gone", "Also known as l'shit in French", "I was just being an ass. I know the pros out way the cons.", "I believe this is why you keep your seed words in a safe place. Unless I misunderstand the process, you can recreate your wallet and regain access to your Bitcoin. Sure saves you from having to dig up a land fill.", "Is that really how this works? So if your hard drive gets some virus from pornhub you can just lose all your bitcoin? You can backup in someway right? I always assumed it was saved into the block chain, or some kinda cloud.", "Of course he says that, because he wants the town to let him dig. Have you noticed though that there are no actual experts named, and none of them are quoted? \n\nIt's been buried for 8 years in a land fill.", "He'll lose more than just his hard drive if a magnet is used.", "Take a REALLY big magnet", "I just keep mine under my keyboard!", "Sick reference bro.\n\nEveryone knows youve got like, the best references.", "Think I recently saw a news article about Jp morgan accepting bitcoin as collateral", "Yes, especially if the bush is a million tons of rotting garbage", "If you can find the exact model, just switch the external circuit board, don't try and get to the platters! \n\nIf you are lucky, it may spin up. I've had success with this method in the past.", "You'd be SHOCKED at the condition hard drives are restorable at. You can snap the disk in half and be missing shards of it and still get your data back.", "How much would the price drop if he found it and sold it all?", "It's not a loss until it's a realized loss.", "This is the LockPickingLawyer, and today we have a dual key lockbox holding a hard drive with $350 million in Bitcoin. Using the tool that myself and BosnianBill developed, this should be an easy feat. Click out of one, two is binding, nothing on three, four is binding, five is set. Counter turn on one... Two is set, annnnnd we're in.\"", "First learned this tip on Adam Savage's Tested youtube channel. He also had an additional tip—sending a search party— where you drop another of the same thing in a similar manner and watch how it falls, lands, and bounces to get an idea of the radius it's likely to be found in.", "I can understand. I didn’t check my fantasy before the games today and my tight end didn’t play. My tight end in the bench got 19 points. \n\nThis would have put me in the playoffs. This was for only 300 to first place and I’m already starting to have panic attacks over it lol.", "'food'", "So a hard drive sitting out in the elements, no chance those platters still have anything recoverable, if it was an SSD maybe", "Tbf, eventually all currencies will get down to 1 left. \n \nSo, this is technically true.", "yes if you accidentally throw away a hard drive you deserve to lose hundreds of millions", "How is the Bitcoin on the hard drive only and not a wallet?", "Join r/cryptocurrency and activate the vault.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/community-points/#vault\n\nGet crypto if you get upvoted. You can see how that improves the sub. ^/s\n\nOr r/banano.", "BOHAHAHA!!", "Awesome story, thanks.", "the HD probably went into a garbage compactor the instant it got picked up and there's a high chance it's smashed to pieces", "They know what area it's in but cant get a permit to dig it up.", "Back in the day you could convert Reddit Karma to BTC and gift it to someone. People were throwing around .1-.5BTC like it was nothing. It was a joke/gimmick to everyone and people would ask for donations and people would give it to them like it was nothing. Because it was basically only $1/10k comment karma. \n\nI sent myself the tip on another account and eventually lost the password. I can still see the wallet and it started at like $1.5 and now it’s around $800. \n\nYou can’t convert karma into BTC anymore.", "The private key is potentially password protected, also.", "If I showed up and found it first could I claim finders keepers?", "Yeah but rain and dirt and machines have abused that for how long?", "Wouldn't a sledgehammer make short work of any pieces left?", "I work in regulation. I don't regulate landfills, but I've been trained in them and am good friends with a colleague who does. He will never find that hard drive.\n\nModern landfills aren't like what people picture (at least in the US, and I imagine other modern countries are similar). They aren't these big open mountains of garbage. Landfills are constantly covered. Each day, the active section of a landfill must be covered with 6+ inches of soil or other approved cover. Every day. That's on top of whatever amount of garbage is added.\n\nEven if he could pinpoint the general area (and I think they have), that's a lot of volume to cover. A large landfill will have 1-5 acres of area that's active in a day. Once it's covered they add on top of it. There could easily be 50+ layers of garbage and cover on top of the area his HD is at\n\nThen you have to keep in mind that this is an anaerobic area creating the most foul leachate. Methane is created here (and often capture to fuel the trucks that carry garbage). Then there is settling that occurs so it could have moved from it's original location; not by much, but if near an edge originally it may not be in the area they'd even look.\n\nIt's gone.", "Bitcoin cant just be deleted unless you're talking about a universe heat death, which i guess you're still incorect as there'd need to be One whole coin left before this happens.", "If I lived there and had enough f’s to give, would definitely implant a hard drive with “fake” data just to prank this dude", " Can we stop saying.. This.\n\nIt adds nothing to the thread. Just like my comment", "Haha, righteous!", "You're describing how money has worked for the last 3,000 years.", "That implies that legally, the court would hand me rights to any item I could fit in the owner's trash bin, unless that owner can prove they did not place it there. They'd have to have an alibi or an affidavit right?", "Now I'm sure you're just randomly making stuff up. If you had ever opened a drive you'd know that there is barely any plastic, the main body is cast metal. There couldn't be much wetting and drying through that tiny filter. In order for water to get in, air would also have to get out and vice versa, which doesn't happen easily unless there is a substantial pressure difference. Comparing the credit card strip to a hard drive platter?? Hard drives are absolutely 100% high tech in terms of materials. Credit cards store 210 bits per inch, hard drives about 100 milion. They are completely different materials. Hard drives also have built in error correction, so even if 10% were corrupted it might still read fine. And even if it didn't, the keys are tiny and probably stored in multiple places on the disk, so there's a pretty good chance of finding a working copy.", "You're right. I'll refrain from now on. Thanks.", "You didn’t try the tracker that’s built in?", "Proof of stink", "There could be many ends to Bitcoin, but yes, I was meaning human demise of some kind and electricity ending or the sun swallowing everything. But, it could be something like a more efficient crypto is create and all Bitcoin eventually gets transferred into that new thing with remaining random HDs with ledgers being destroyed.", "US Army has a protocol for eliminating paper documents where they bleach, shred, powderize, break the cellulose down with acids, incinerate the remainder and diffuse it into the ocean. \n\nGood luck turning back time on all that entropy.", "> They instead take out loan and use the stock as collateral.\n\nYou can do the same with bitcoin too. Look into nexo and similar platforms.\n\n> This is also how they can avoid paying any taxes since there is no gain here\n\neeeh... that's really not how it works", "Sorry for ruining your day, /u/EmperorPeriwinkle", "I'll trust real experts over armchair experts who don't even bother watching the video...", "A pneumatic nail gun is quicker and more fun.", "Back then when he mined it or bought it? Not that much.", "If this was a movie I would watch the shit out of it", "Me fucking too!!!", "Indeed!", "What's the point of a distributed ledger if one person can just accidentally throw away the key to an entry?", "> but most stuff is left entirely as-is\n\nNo it's not. They put down layers of plastic and rubber and fill in the waste on top, but let me tell you, it's not placed there gently. It is absolutely fucked up and destroyed while doing so. They need to compact the shit out of so as to not waste space. That hard drive is fucked.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/RmLhY7f8WxQ?t=244\n\nhttps://previews.123rf.com/images/andrewnewark/andrewnewark1712/andrewnewark171200002/91696032-landfill-bulldozer-on-horizon-mobbed-by-birds.jpg", "350 millimeter dollars?", "Sounds a bit like a pyramid scheme", "I feel like anyone with bitcoin back then was dealing drugs online.", "Sure. But you couldn't access the bitcoin. You would need him to do that.", "Seriously, found an recent pic of the guy... https://i.imgur.com/DtuO9uZ.png", "No, bruteforcing the password of the private key\n\nYour reading comprehension is off", "Lol straight out of Silicon Valley", "I remember in 2010 thinking it would be funny to buy a few hundred for 5 bucks.\n\nI even tried but couldn't figure out how to buy them.", "What would be incredible is if he left it in his other pants pocket", "Looking good. I’ve been diversifying over as many brands of beer as possible in order to try and make sure I have the valuable ones.", "It would be a reason to push forward digital forensic tech. Just imagine the bounty to read the file if the thing is found.", "The New Yorker did an article on this just this week. The guy says he was planning on pulling the drive out of the trash before taking it to the dump. His wife did him a favor and took the trash to the dump on her way to work in the morning before he woke up. Sounds unlikely, but that’s his story. Bitcoin wasn’t worth anything at the time, so he wasn’t too concerned about the key.", "I have a mug that says this guy fucks!", ">100 corporations are responsible for 70% of all emissions. \n\nThis following isn't against crypto but against this talking point which is BS\n\nThe study considered only fossil fuels, and considered any group that provided fossil fuels to be a \"corporation\" including the governments of sadui Arabia, Russia, and China\n\nDo you think the Chinese government or ExxonMobil burn fossil fuels just for fun? No, they give it to regular people who eventually burn it to get things done.\n\nWhat would happen if all of the world's oil producers stopped producing oil? Do you think we would have environmental utopia?\n\nNo we'd have a mad max style hell hole where no one could drive or produce shit in factories. That is until the next big company or government starts producing more oil.\n\nLook at how much people flip out if gas prices go up 10 cents lol. Do you think if all of the world's oil production suddenly stopped it would be good? Obviously not.\n\nAgain these companies and governments produce the oil because people want to use it for shit. The average consumer needs and wants gas to drive their car. And so on.", "Thank you. One of my main jobs was degaussing drives years back. I just used a big ass magnet with a handle.", "After investing all that time and money he might be able to buy a sub at one subway in Washington. Fuck yeah bud, you're nailing it!", "Uhhh, they could literally peace out and never have to work again...", "Bitcoins have never been cheap enough that a reasonable person would toss 6500 of them on purpose.", "I lost my hearing aid in a nightclub everyone was dancing pushing me around while I walked around with my cellphone's light searching through the floors.", "Someone dug up an old landfill to find original cartridges of the worst video game flop of all time. And they found it. Buried back in the 80s. I’m sure that’s worth somewhere under 350mm", "It’s theoretically possible with sophisticated enough tools.", "Don’t dumps use crazy magnets? Wouldn’t the Hard Drive data be erased by that?", "I’ve watched the video thanks. It’s nothing but this guy claiming he’s got experts who say it’s recoverable. Lol.", "A lot of these things are based on the [greater fool theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory). And of course it's in their interests to hype up the investment once they've bought in.", "Worth it. Spend $50m trying to find it and it’s still worth it.", "Just pull on the wire bro", "I work in regulation. I've been to open landfills as they were dumping. I didn't say it was placed gently, but it's not shredded or anything. It's literally dumped then moved around with pushers barely larger than a bobcat, on tracks. \n\nJust about any household trash bag will provide enough cushion to prevent it from being physically destroyed while covering. It's the leachate that's to worry about...well not even that because it simply won't be found.", "The guys sitting on a pile of 350M dollars: \"Ask me questions all you want\"", "If you knew there was $350 million buried in a particular plot of land, that nobody else was digging for it, and that you were best equipped to identify it; wouldn't you dig?", "This", "> I was meaning human demise of some kind and electricity ending or the sun swallowing everything.\n\nIn the case of human demise, wallets keys still exist should some alien lifeform discover our languages and booting up their own bitcoin nodes on their own \"internet\" using their own electricity, it is possible though not likely. However, the fundamentals remain the same, bitcoin cannot be *deleted, it cannot just vanish unless literally everything vanishes. \n\n> But, it could be something like a more efficient crypto is create and all Bitcoin eventually gets transferred into that new thing with remaining random HDs with ledgers being destroyed.\n\nBitcoin being transferred into a new coin is not a thing, bitcoin will always exist. You can exchange your coins for cash and use said cash for this new coin... but the bitcoins still remain to the person you exchanged with, its not like they just got deleted. \n\nDestroying your ledger does not result in the deletion of your coins, you cannot delete bitcoins. A ledger is just a way of storing them using the key, the key grants you access to this wallet.. keys cannot be deleted either, even if you lose your keys and destroy your ledger and have no access to your coin, they still exist. The wallet key can be randomly guessed (though very unlikely) But technically possible.", "Maybe you would have sold some* of it. That what most do. Keep most or some of it, because tuck, it’s bitcoin.", "He’ll find it and open it up only to realize he traded it all for some shitcoin that doesn’t exist anymore", "Option 1) Actually watch the three minute long video to find out that he's been looking for years and this is just a recent video discussing it\n\nOption 2) Don't watch the video and then don't comment, having not watched the video", "There is a lot of unaccounted BTC still. A lot of paper wallets 00", "I literally work IT. I have handled hard drives daily for the past 6 years. Don't sit here and talk about shit you clearly know nothing about. It's not as simple as \"swap the platters into another drive and it'll work\". Drive recovery even in normal circumstances if it got wet is a 60/40 shot or so. \n\nIf you think the main body of a HD is cast metal then YOU have never opened a hard drive. Here's a teardown:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/07fpE2q1eUI\n\nAnd another\n\nhttps://youtu.be/Wiy_eHdj8kg\n\nAnd another\n\nhttps://youtu.be/jiMFQhSpms8\n\nAnd another\n\nhttps://youtu.be/CqJPBlUwJsE\n\nAnd another.\n\nhttps://youtu.be/p-JJp-oLx58\n\nHere's one that's like 14-15 years old that actually has metal, so maybe you just learned your stuff in 2005:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/oGygwiprEbA\n\nAnd how high tech it is doesn't matter. There's a reason that long term storage is done on tapes and not hard drives, and those tapes are switched every 10-15 years in controlled conditions in temp and humidity controlled environments.\n\nPlease learn at least a little about the subject you're talking about before you try to start puffing your chest up.", "There was a post here months ago about a guy with a room full of old hard drives, and he picks through them looking for old wallets which used to contain “dust” but are now worth thousands of dollars.", "I’m confused. If Bitcoins are a virtual currency, why isn’t there a digital footprint on another hard drive somewhere? For goodness sake, if the government or a police agency can take a destroyed cellphone and extract digital evidence, why can’t they somehow verify the legitimacy of this mans claim?", "their inherent cuteness is reason enough", "Oof. \n\nHopefully things are better for you now.", "He will spend the rest of his day forever searching. . .\nNever to appear before thy master.", "I think the act of finding the hard drive, even if completely rendered unusable, would bring him closure. Idk what he has been feeling internally but I think he probably has come to terms to the fact that he may not be actually able to recover it. He is just holding on to the hope that it's still out there. I found the whole thing funny at first, but I sort of sympathize with his plight. I wish him well and that he may be able to find peace over time.", "I'm way out of the loop on this. Isn't bitcoin fake made up digital money? How is fake made up digital worth anything? At least you can burn monopoly money. Or am I missing something major that apparently everyone knows about but me?", "This guy fucks!", "They could call me the trash man who lives in a tent on my trash mountain.", "This guy also fucks", "The only people that held are ones that were diehards or those that forgot about it and years later found the HD or key or whatever it was on, intact.", "My brother once put his retainer in a napkin and it ended up in the trash at McDonald's.\n\nYes, we were forced to dig through the trash in the dumpster. I know how this guy feels.", "Lol. Found the windows user.", "With enough professional people, equipment and incentive, literally any drive is recoverable", "Sure thing! This is Cooper:\n\nhttps://imgur.com/a/HOJ14A3\n\nCooper needs a bath but is refusing at the moment. Hence the extra puppy eyes.", "Uhhhh. Those are bad sectors dumbass.", "I'm guessing hes given up", "Imagine Bitcoin at 1m someday? The gov may not want to help him find it now but you bet your ass someday they will", "Thanks for the laugh!", "Yes because it costs time and money to do those things. I'm suggesting it is worse to spend time and money TRYING to find it and then reclaiming a useless drive instead of not looking at all and just giving up the effort.", "lmao", "I appreciate that, thanks. I was able to overcome it and build back up and been going strong. I don't play as much as I used to, but mostly because I have investments and stuff going so I don't have to. I used to play probably 10-12 hours a day most days but probably playing somewhere around 30-40 hours a week now.", "Hang in there buddy. You made the right call, no one could have known the fuckery they would pull that day. In time it will be back there and beyond.", "It has the word trash in it, so...yes.", "I imagine negotiating like that over lost property is a nice way to get charged with extortion", "Current HDs don't have infinite lifespans. They're actually relatively short. But, yeah, I like the idea of aliens swooping in a few years after our immediate end -- like they were just watching the whole time, and then Earth becomes some tourist destination for them. Lol. \n \nI meant people selling Bitcoin to put their money in another thing until Bitcoin is worthless, and eventually no one cares about it. If it's entirely worthless, no one is going to bother mining it, and no one is going to store it on their machines. That eventually erases its existence. Bitcoin needs wallets and ledger's to exist. Eventually, people could wipe all trace of everything that had anything to do with Bitcoin....save one remaining Bitcoin on the hard drive being wiped last.", "I lost 26 bitcoin. But I would’ve never held past $100, so it’s more like I lost $2600 or even just $1300.", "Wouldn't it just be wet also.", "As many have pointed out OTC. Several services exist from companies like Kraken and Coinbase and dozens of others. There are people looking to buy that much and they'll happily pay for the discount you would offer to unload them at close to market price. Hence it won't cause any major disturbances on the price. Even if Satoshi moves coins now, that is all priced in. Though no doubt the MM will take that news to move price around, make a little money and fill their longs at the lowest possible price so they can sell it back to retail for a nice profit.", "I was thinking “they’re still looking?”\n\nThen I saw it was an old article.", "I was at the dump once and saw this man sitting on his tailgate crying like a baby. I mentioned it to the girl at the scale. She told me while he was at work his wife and daughter got him a new recliner. What they didn't know was his entire life savings was stashed in his old chair and they couldn't find it after it had been initially dumped hours ahead of time.", "Exactly, I remember when bitcoin first started I thought it was the stupidest concept ever and was never going to accomplish anything. History has shown that I was absolutely correct in that assessment. But dude, what if...", "> You don’t and take out loans against it and live life however you want.\n\nYeah, until the crypto market crashes and you are left paying those loans.", "My point is it's way too tempting to sell at 5k, 10k 100k, 200k, 300k, 400k - Not many held on long because they had simply had access to it to sell at any time during the price bump.", "That amount is worth actually mining the landfill in hopes of recovery.", "This is straight from an episode of Silicon Valley with Russ Hanneman searching a landfill for his thumb drive haha", "He apparently threw it away 8 years ago. Pretty sure it's gone forever.", "I have a key I forget. Had half a coin back in 2016. Thought nothing of it then as it wasn’t a huge amount of money. \n\nI’m kicking myself over that and the fact I could have made so much money if I invested more into it", "The email was actually a free account then the company was bought by a cable/internet provider. It was an @sbcglobal.net account which was a yahoo domain I think at the time.", "Most people who invest aren't completely dumb. Sure, he would have sold some, maybe took out 10k or even 100k, but I can promise you when it rose that much, he would have held some. Nobody who had this many bitcoin would have just closed the whole thing. They would have rode it a lot of it through.", "I doubt he's be telling the world about it if it was just a blank check for $350m. The story suggests that he's okay with someone else finding it for him.", "Cracking any password protections on the HDD would be trivial.", "You're misunderstanding one of the fundamentals of bitcoin, you cannot delete it... You can wipe the data from your device but that doesnt mean it gets erased from the bitcoin network, it will *Always exist, even if every single device is wiped simultaneously, nothing changes. \n\n> Bitcoin needs wallets and ledger's to exist. \n\nIt has wallets already from history, those wallets are permanent and there is no way of deleting them no matter how hard you try, therefore since wallets exist already, and since these are permanent, therefore, bitcoin is permanent. \n\nPeople can stop mining, it can be worthless, many a thing can happen, but one thing is for sure, its not getting deleted like you describe. It. isnt. Possible.", "The first video you linked literally shows the black metal body. Just because it's black doesn't mean it's not metal. Do you think all the manufacturers put a metal lid on a plastic body just because? That would make zero sense.", "Dam", "Lol, modern day treasure hunt", "Reading comprehension. You have a HDD. Probably with windows; and probably with password protection. You have to get at the file first.\n\nThen, once you have, you only need the -->password<-- to unlock it. That's the bit that you bruteforce.", "compared to before where the best option for most people was well-water of questionable potability, germ theory was not understood, and most people elected instead to drink wine and beer? For gods sake it wasn't even two hundred years ago that we didn't understand open sewage systems near water sources was a recipe for disaster.\n\nYou're burying your head in the sand if you think we've not come a long, long way in comfort and safety for the average person. Consider the inverse of your argument 2 in 3 people, 5.3 billion people, have reliable access to clean water. Most from personal in-home piping systems as well. That's beyond the majority and not the negible portion implied in 'for a certain percentage of the population'.", "If anyone cares my ex threw away a computer I used to buy... things on. I broke up with my girlfriend and she threw my computer away. HDD had 19 bitcoin on it. I didn't care too much back then cause it wasn't a ton of money.\n\nIts somewhere in Southern Colorado. I'm not gonna go search the dump.", "Tres Comas guy did same thing in Silicon Valley", "A wallet this old, bitcoin wasnt worth much at the time and wouldnt have needed protection.", "Offer half to whoever finds it... You'd have people from around the world helping.", "“Worth”", "HOLY SHIT IS THAT THE HARDDRIVE. I remember the rooster teeth podcast (I'm pretty sure it was them, might be another podcast) talked about this exact scenario almost to a T a long time ago.", "Easy stuff, fellas. Just get a giant magnet to fish it out!", "He'd sold that shit right when it shot up if he had it with the intention of profiting. No way he would sit on those coins until today. He needs to grow up and move on.", "Isn't this the plot to a silicon valley episode?", "It depends, some (modern) OS’s use full disk encryption by default but this may not have been it. \n\nI’m actually more concerned if the storage media is intact.", "I was driving in the dark on the interstate, and I passed someone's still-blinking Bluetooth earpiece on the shoulder of the road... I imagined some dude throwing it out the window in the middle of an argument with his wife, and she just kept yelling as if he was still listening, lol...", "What is he gonna do if he finds it and it’s not working? Restore the Bitcoin data?", "if he's smart he had that one as basically the obvious bait, and had several smaller but still significant wallets that he dumped over the years as the price went up and made enough money to at least be comfy.", "Bought 100$ worth when Bitcoin was selling for 800$ USD per coin. Promptly lost my key a few months later and never put much thought into it until I heard it hit 40k.\n\nOh well ¯\\\\\\_(ツ)\\_/¯", "I'm not misunderstanding anything. The Bitcoin network is a series of decentralized ledgers and wallets. Eventually, that network will be wiped down to it's last node, and eventually erasing that last node will erase the last Bitcoin. \n \nThe wallets that you're talking about only exist on ledgers on nodes. Those can and will eventually be gone -- all of them. The entire Bitcoin network will cease to exist. Bitcoin requires human maintenance to exist. That maintenance is temporary. Therefore, Bitcoin is finite just like everything else. It. Is. Not. Permanent. ...since we're apparently doing sentences in single words now.", "How long have we been hearing this one? It's come a long way - Enough to be classified as property, store of value, investment, etc. Idk tho, check your cocktails", "I once threw away (99.9% sure) a boardwalk monopoly piece from McDonald’s into the trash. In at work. We take the trash out nightly and the next day I went to the dumpster behind the building and sifted through trash for like 45 min. I didn’t find it, I’m sure I missed out on a million.", "Honestly, sounds like something I would dedicate my life to. 350 million? Hell, if he spends 12 hours a day every day looking for that hard drive and finds it 10 years from now, he’s working an 8000 dollar an hour job", "Could the guy even do anything if he knew somebody else got their hands on it? isn't the appeal of crypto that its not tied to anything?", "If it's an offline software wallet there's no way that could be enforced", "Right. Good point.", "the samsung ones are nice cheap and relatively good quality. i think last i checked i got a few pairs for 30$ samsung uflex. They have magnets at the earbuds to keep them together when off", "Considering the dude was careless enough to throw it out, he would have sold long before $700. It was worth $13 at that time. He would have sold for $100 or less.", "I lost an earbud in an airplane seat. I just accepted the loss without looking.", "Have you ever lost spare change or even $20? Left it in your pocket and forgot about it? He mined these in 2009. Bitcoin was literally worth pennies.", "In what scenario do hdds randomly fall into boxes?", "Knowing there's $350 million waiting to be found would drive anyone nuts. People have done a lot more for a lot less. I'd be just like this guy. Otherwise, what's the alternative? Sitting at home knowing there's $350 mill in that landfill and I'm not doing anything about it? \n\nI'd just keep telling myself that it could be in the next shovelful. Or the next one. Well, the next one. One more...", "Could've been cheap and bet $0.10 cents 👀", "Upvote for NZD", "Indeed. I am just going to plant a dozen bitcoins in my garden and see how many I have next year. lol.", "My son lost his Shure headphones a little over a year ago. He was devastated. He loved them. We replaced them last Christmas. \n\nEarly last spring, as he was leaving his house, he finds them encased in ice on the front sidewalk. He carefully chipped them out and thawed them. They work perfectly. He now has 2 sets.", "🤮", "This is why im always skeptical of the “use a hardware wallet its better/safer” claims. \n\nBrokerages are probably going to be fairly secure as is as long as you do even an inkling of research into who you do business with, passwords can be reset, and there’s a zero percent chance you literally throw your investment away.", "Threw a bunch of bitcoin away when they were not worth much? That could make you insane. \n\nDidn't invest in AMZN, AAPL, MSFT, 5000 other stocks before they skyrocketed? That could make you insane.\n\nSold low and missed a rally? That could make you insane.\n\nDwelling on past decisions in hindsight now that more information is known? Good way to miss the future opportunities that you should be focused on instead. Life's a journey, learn a lesson and move on.", "Yes", "Is there any legal or technical precedent for this at all?", "This. 100%", ">good way to ruin the remainder of your life\n\nSounds like this dude reached that point a few years ago. A sane person would just accept their fate.", "The impossible to defeat passcode", "Found the parent.", "Damn", "Real life Russ Hanneman\n\nhttps://youtu.be/ygZ10y_R1qQ", "Reminds me of the wallet of SHIB that was bought for $8500 a year and a half ago. It’s worth something like $3b still, but would be hard to liquidate without crashing the price.", "in 2013?", "Not really different than accidentally throwing out a $5 bill that was stuck to a receipt. That $5 is simply gone, and theoretically every other dollar is worth marginally more, reversing inflation.\n\n(Except that this was a whole lot more than $5 of course)", "Russ on Silicon Valley?", "Cute, thank you for sharing", "To destroy a mechanical hard drive, wipe it by writing all 0s to it. Then once that is done destroy the platters. If it’s extremely sensitive data a metal shredder. \n\nYou can also just shoot it, put some bullet holes in the platters and you are pretty much good to go.", "And probably end up with an infection giving you an equivalent prognosis.", "Tres comas", "Does nobody see 2013 in the top left corner?", "He certainly hasn't relinquished ownership of it. He didn't really abandon it, more like mislaid it. Considering he has gone through all that trouble and expense to find it, I doubt that a judge would find for a disloyal worker who got paid to find it, and then kept it for himself.", "I think it’s intentionally offensive", "The sad thing if it is mechanical waste. It's probably in a country where they take apart mechanical waste. it's not even in that landfill and he's just wasting his time.", "£50 says his ex wife has it in the boot of her car.", "Actually, the thermite happens after you use it for target practice with a rifle (or rpg)", "Brewhaha!", "I remember a story 8 years or so back when an investigation led to the determination that a victim a couple years prior had been cut up and put in trash bags and thrown away. The trash company was able to pin point a fairly precise area and depth that the trash would have been dumped and they started excavating. They found the body.", "Wasn't that large wallet the fbi from confiscated bitcoin on silk road?", "Wow I literally told you what was meant but you went ahead and misunderstood it anyway.\n\nPrivate keys can have passwords, and very often do. Do you even know how private keys work? Letme guess, you never ran `ssh-keygen` in your life?", "It’s okay, it’s just hindsight. Any “investor” would have sold a long time ago. The people that still hold from the early days likely forgot about even having it lo", "I mean at this point then isnt the thing likely rusted the hell out/crushed/completely inoperable? \n\nIf not just picked up by some random trash digger who reformated it to his needs?", "Huh? I'm almost positive this isn't how this works man. Which miner are you going to subpoena. Literally anyone with a computer can mine for bitcoin? There are miners in every single country with with wildly varing scale. If you where able to move coins around without password wouldn't counties or groups with nefarious intentions have stolen all of it by now?", "You sir have 0 reading comprehension and no idea what we talking about.", "That’s a #lifeprotip. Don’t look back and always move forward.", "That's a long way for searching. It's like dropping your coin in the dark room and try to find it.", "you're saying this massive team has been able to.... checking notes..... access the dump's database.", "Clean water alone.......... Except in Flint", "That’s a good point", "This put me in a rabbit hole watching congress try to learn about crypto and blockchain. These old fucks shouldn't be in charge and making rules about the modern world that they have no idea about. It's truly kinda scary", "Ozzy Osborne is always how I find mine", "Am I understanding this right. he is looking for a hard drive which includes the wallet but not his private key. So he would need to use the hard drive on his PC, open the wallet and then guess the password?", "Finds hard drive... realizes its been corrupted...", "Id disagree there depending on the coin. \n\nLoads of use cases and institutionally backed cryptos that are now being backed by major companies to provide services for customers(thus innately giving them value). I really don’t see crypto going away anymore with the degree of institutional backing it’s been getting.\n\nI liken comments like these to the same people saying that there was no way to make money on the internet in the 90s.", "You just have to get the big pools. Can easily get over 50% hash, the rest will follow or fork, becoming a non legal complicent fork. Government can take control, that's why so many exchanges delisted private coins as they can't KYC. Aka stay within law.", "These \"I spent 100 btc on ___ in 2013\" type of stories are always so dumb. If you spent a ton of BTC on a pizza in 2013 you also could have bought those BTC back the same day for the same cost. This guy could have just bought the BTC back at plenty of points after he tossed it for roughly the same or less. Fact is he had no faith in it so if he hasn't tossed them out he would have just sold them and never bought them back. At the time they were worth barely anything and that's how he treated them. It happens, it's not like he bought these and had serious faith they'd be worth millions and tragically lost them, he just dumped them himself.", "Im assuming you havent done the math on that one yet....", "Completely wrong", "Well, they DID find the treasure trove of E.T. Atari cassettes after decades.\n\nEdit: [Found the Article. ](https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/atari-e-t-game-cartridges-unearthed-in-new-mexico-desert)", "Holy shit are you dumb.\n\nThe point is to get to the password so they can use the private key.\n\nYou are literally talking out of your ass. Like \"private keys dont have passwords\". They would have the private key, they would just need the password to use it if there's one. Thats what is being talked about here.", "This is more environmentally friendly than real bitcoin mining.\n\nBy an order of magnitude considering block size.", "> A private key is readily encodable as a sequence of bytes, and can be copied, encrypted and decrypted just like any file. Still not getting the BTC\n\nOf course you would get the BTC. Once you've cracked the wallet password, you have access to the plaintext private key which is associated with the bitcoin. You could then create valid transactions on the blockchain, as anyone with this info can.\n\nThis is why good, long passwords are important when storing your keys.", "Presumably he threw it out, so is it actually lost?", "Audiophiles are one of the most pretentious crowds. Honestly.", "i get it i lost my wallet from 2012 which had around 10 bitcoins. that was just a leftover change back then", "So you're saying to throw a brick through his hard drive. Got it.", "I thought you just needed the key (or ten words, or something) and you'll always be able to get your coins back.", "Single chains are (usually) deflationary, but there's an unlimited amount of chains. So crypto in general is inflationary.", "A couple of years ago, my Uber driver told me he was teaching a course on bitcoin mining, and he could help me get into it. For a piece of my action, no doubt. He claimed he was getting rich off it, but he was driving for Uber, so you figure it out.", "Sure, everybody has a 261-chr password.", "Is his name Russ Hanneman?", "So do AirPods…:", "I just buy whatever Best Buy has on sale for @ $30 bucks, inevitably lose the left one first, and continue to listen to my podcasts in my right ear until I do it all over again.", "Hindsight for financial regrets is just a dark path that we should not go down, my friend. It only leads to depression.\n\nWhen I got hired at Apple Computer, Inc. in the early 2000’s, they were still giving stock options to new hires. I exercised most of them when the stock hit $40/share to buy a new car, but if I’d kept them to the ten-year limit instead, they would’ve been worth a cool million.", "It belongs to the Seagulls now, good look getting it back from those bastards!", "Holy forking shirtballs, sounds like the bad place", "He didn’t put it on multiple hardware wallets? Just kept it on a primitive hard drive? Not very smart.", "I don’t think it will matter.\n\nGarbage juice makes its way into every nook and cranny of anything you throw away already.\n\nEven if he finds that hard drive, the chances of ever mounting it are… insurmountable.", "Nice about these coins being lost they will remain support indefinitely.", "F\\ck, why couldn't I have found it before? Oh yeah, I'm not in the UK. God forbid it got crushed by the trucks and dozers going over it at the time.", "You get all smug about how you know computers better than everyone else, also state that calling it a hard drive doesn’t actually mean it’s a hard drive lmao \n\nKid just take the L and move on, no need to lie.", "The wallet is a set of private keys. \n\nIf the wallet itself is encrypted then you may need a password to access it. That could be brute forced. Brute forcing to guess a wallets private key however is essentially impossible.", "Sounds like Russ Hanneman is still trying to get into the 3 comma club.", "As are any groups that pick an arbitrary dollar value to the minimum needed for quality lol", "No one should really feel guilty for spending bitcoin for what it was worth at the time. That's what it was for. Hindsight is 20/20.", "The outside probably yes. But what matters is the sealed interior where the metal platters (metal discs) are located. That's where the info is stored. As long as those are even partially okay, there is a small chance.", "This is fucked.", "what about something like metamask? It has a private key and can hold many different assets. I guess the private key for metamask only works for metamask then? Maybe it's the same for other wallets? The backup seed can only be used for that specific wallet and no other one?", "CDs are physically etched with the data with a laser. Hard disk drives use magneticism, which is more easily disrupted. That's why they are protected with a great metal cage around them.", "I’ve heard this story more than once", "Because I know how media is. Lol. Technical terms get avoided if they feel the projected audience won't know wtf it means. \n\nI know what a hard drive is. Have 4 in my plex server. A m.2 a 4tb Ssd and a 4tb hdd all in my home pc. \n\nIt's no L being taken. Your trying to get a victory on something that doesn't even matter. Lmfao sad.\n\nAlso smug? Says the person who first called the other dumb. Lol. Wtf. Dumbass", "Way back in the day, you just had a file called wallet.dat people didn't take security seriously because it was just a random file for this funny project.", "Oh I see so what someone says Irish traveler they are not referring to an ethnic Irish person.", "What were they making the newspaper out of back then?", "Good luck, you got this.", "Well that’s too damn bad!", "Lifehack: Attach airpods to HDD containing crypto in case it's lost.", "This. This right here. 110%. \n\n👏", "I bought BTC at $8. When it hit $1000 I sold the last of them. Felt like winning the lottery. But I didn't buy a lot at $8 because it was a stupid little science project. I had no idea how big it woud get. Just glad I took them out of Mt Gox before that collapsed.", "This is the saddest thing ever", "Hypothetically.. if someone else found it by chance and the new owner was able to access the bitcoins\n\nCan the OP sue him in court or try to claim the drive is his? Or does he have no claim?", "As someone who works at a landfill… I’d say the chances are basically none. Unless the hard drive doesn’t need to be fully intact? Every operating hour of every day we compact the surface area of the fill with two separate 62+ ton compactors. I’ve had to tell at least a dozen people that they can come to look, but their stuff they might have thrown away is likely smashed beyond recognition; along with the ~about 400 or so other loads we saw that day. (I can’t remember the weight average.) if that thing needs to be fully operational then I can’t imagine it is any longer. \n\nOh! I work for a relatively small county, but the higher volume places of the world (I’ve watch a video on A landfill in Orange County) do tons /day at a rate that would really astound most. I definitely recommend heading down the landfill rabbit hole if you have time. It’s fairly interesting… but I’m biased 😅", "It’s 2021 lmao if anything you’d have better luck calling it a usb stick, the elderly people I’ve done computer work with have no idea what a hard drive is but very much know what a usb stick/drive is\n\n>\tYour trying to get a victory on something that doesn’t even matter. Lmfao sad.\n\nYou say that yet you are crying and making up reasons why you are right all over this thread 😂 “lmfao sad” it’s exactly right champ.\n\n>\tAlso smug? Says the person who first called the other dumb. Lol. Wtf. Dumbass\n\nAre you high? I didn’t call you dumb at all. “Dumbass” is right you really like projecting huh?", "Took my kid to the trampoline park and lost my phone in the foam pit, #canrelate", "For 350Mil?\n\nEven if the odds are that that shit is toast im fucking tearing that shit appart to give it a try.\n\nWe’re talking 350 million* here. You can conservatively live on 8.7 million dollars a year for the rest of your life and not only never run out of money but likely end your life with more money than you started with after inflation is calculated.\n\nYou bet your damn ass im trying.", "The lengths people go to for their Ponzi schemes…", "😳💰😳", "This comment is so wrong it isn't even funny. There are many of us who have been holders of bitcoin since before 2013 and haven't sold it all.", "I'd totally snag it and destroy it. \n\n\nEasy come; easy go!", "I'm on the same boat... prollu just a few handful of btc on a had I had back in 2011... oh well I guess... after the house fire few years ago I gave up on it...", "I feel bad for this fella. Seems like he's spiraled into complete mania :(. Hopefully he's getting some form of mental help 😬", "I'm not crying or making up reasons lol. All I said is I saw it addressed as flash stick on other news sites. \n\nYou have a stick up your ass being I was wrong and keep thinking it makes you better. \n\nIt doesn't. It makes you a piece of shit.", "The quest to rebillionize", "https://youtu.be/Db0rKKe8XN8\n\nRandy Bachman’s got a good handle on it…", "Hasn’t this guy been looking for like 6 years?", "You really are upset you were wrong huh? \n\nIt’s funny watching you constantly throw a tantrum like a 14 year old lmao", "You can't buy time with money.\n\nI'd rather spend those 8 years being happy with my wife, daughter, grandmother, and friends.", "that's a really smart solution", "Koss Porta Pro enters the chat.", "Not all chains are going to make it, but crypto in some form is here to stay. If you've ever played around with defi, you're realize how amazing it is. Smart contracts are a very powerful concept. I don't think all transactions will become crypto (though they might be processed on a private blockchain somewhere). But online transactions are far easier on the blockchain (for some networks, AVAX is great... ETH and BTC kind of suck).\n\nLong term, I think what crypto will facilitate some online person-to-person transactions. But the majority will be on the AI-to-AI economy. DAO's give AI access to real world resources. We're at the point now, where so many of our technologies are turning code into the real world and the real world into code. Combine that with AI, and AI with Decentralized Autonomous Organizations (DAO's) doing busines with other DAO's in an autonomous fashion.... the world is going to evolve at an unprecedented pace.", "I bought a very strong green laser pointer back when silkroad was still a thing. It was 40BTC and although i know i would never be able to hold onto it for so long i still think about it.", "No. Im not lol. I'm upset with the fact you're a twat. I'm directly addressing the issue. You're misdirecting. You're sumg because I misspoke about earlier articles stating flash drive/USB. \n\nYou think your being funny and all this is doing is showing how sad your life truly is. \n\nMeanwhile I'm sitting here smoking a joint watching elf. Idgaf about being wrong. \n\nI WAS WRONG AND MISSPOKE ABOUT IT BEING A FLASH DRIVE BECAUSE SOME ARTICLES STATED IT. WHO CARES. lol", "I mean, does he know the passphrase?", "You can't buy back time with money. \n\nThis story is 8 years old. \n\nI'd rather spend those 8 years being happy with my wife, daughter, \ngrandmother, and friends.", "I hope he finds it.", "Is this the same guy who offered 25% of whatever was on his hard drive to his home town if they helped him find it last summer?\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/uk-man-makes-last-ditch-effort-to-recover-lost-bitcoin-hard-drive.html", "Or he finds it and the next day he gets hit by a car and dies.", "I can see that, a non-trivial amount of the early transactions for bitcoin were on the silk road. I bet a lot of the people involved in that went to jail for extended periods of time.", "It's a weird paradox, if he had not lost it, he surely would have cashed out long ago with a sizable but insignificant profit. If it's found, losing the hard drive would be the biggest break of his life.", "I have found atleast 3 different single ear buds in parking lots…", "This would make a great Nigerian Prince scam", "It’s possible. When I was a kid my family went to a volcanic hot springs in Costa Rica. I lost my watch in the water. A few hours after I realized it was gone, while I was drifting in a pool, my hand brushed against it where it was pulled against a rock by a mini waterfall", "This is why I don't lose my mind over it. \n\n\nAlso, one of my douchiest coworkers RMA'd his hard drive with the only copy of his bitcoin wallet back in 2011 or 2012 just so he could save $50 on a new WD Black platter drive, so when I think about the amount of money he lost, I'm buoyed by schadenfreude.", "Always wondered if that would work after seeing it in Mr Robot", "I mean if we're being real here, the entire stock market is a pyramid scheme. The stock market is always expected to keep going up, but we live on a planet with finite resources. It's impossible, unless we can successfully expand into space and beyond, for it to keep going up forever. Even if we do, at some point the stock market will peak, and we as a capitalist society will be fucked", "Ouch. That hurts.", "My wife got a bitcoin tip worth about $100 in 2015. In just found the wallet passcode thia year. She was very excited to see howuch its worth.", "Straight up Ponzi scheme at its heart. There is literally nothing backing Bitcoin. Not like a stock where if you bought enough you'd have a controlling interest in a company. Not a fiat currency. Literally just speculating on nothing.", "Seriously, classic Holes syndrome. That lady went nuts too.", "Reminds me of Holes.........", "You would be surprised even today. There’s some pretty well-known cases recently of crypto influencers getting “hacked“ by leaving their passwords on simple text files on their computer.\n\nhttps://thenextweb.com/news/crypto-youtuber-hacked-out-of-2-million-during-a-livestream", "That shit long gone lol", "A bitcoin private key is not a password. If someone found an encrypted wallet file they could not cash it in unless they had a password.", "Sorry to hear that. Sucks.", "Not quite as crazy, but I invested in ethereum in 2017, was buying it at $17. Decided to sell the many I had because I needed the money. If only I had held. When it started rapidly rising I told my father to invest $10,000 into it. It was still under $100 each when I told him. He regrets he never did it.", "I blacked out after “my shih tzu cheeked it” so I missed the rest of your comment but once I figure out how to give you an award I will.", "This story of James Howells, is not so much about James Howells as it is about the lost valuables of civilization. How many hundreds of millions of dollars in gold and jewels sit at the bottom of the sea encased in pirate ships, government ships and private ships that have sunk? There are many private excavators searching for and occasionally recovering those treasures. A hard drive in a landfill is really the modern equivalent! A century or two from now, when the the landfills have been covered by verdant parks and forests, or perhaps even lakes and oceans, people will explore them for this treasure. Unfortunately, I fear, at the bottom of a body of water, gold and diamonds last better than bits and bytes.", "What happens to “lost” bitcoin ?", "You're not brute forcing the private key itself, you're brute forcing a likely much shorter password used to encrypt the private key.", "Exactly, like we all haven't seen Blood Diamond...", "At least you need physical access to get the password list.\n\nShared passwords is a big nono though", "I was watching a doc on hookers she was on crack and found 20$ on a rocky road ever since that night she would pick up random rocks looking for cash. I think that guy is high as fuck.", "Surprised this wasn't in the top comments, but this is a real life version of the episode in Silicon Valley where Russ is in the trash dump looking for a thumbdrive with BTC on it.", "This entire thread is why, when I first heard of earbuds, I mocked them and swore I'd never get them. They're too stupidly expensive and too easy to loose. I have wired ones sitting around and they work just fine, never need a charge, never split up and get lost on the ground if they fall out of my ear, and if I need new ones they're like $2.", "Dude I had a redditor tip me about the same a few years back and I don’t even know how to go about recovering it", "It makes plenty of sense, it's cheap and easy. I literally put an 8TB Barracuda into my system not even 6 months ago, I can confirm it is plastic.", "Make no sense. It belongs to him. If he kept it, why the hell dig through trash looking for something you already have? Especially since he would be a multi millionaire.", "It's only worth that till you try to sell it. Regardless, I'll keep laughing until he finds it.", "The asshole in me kinda wishes that happens to him lol", "The thing people may be inclined to forget is that early bitcoin enthusiasts were collectively the biggest bunch of desperate, pathetic losers I've ever met: like if you were offering a timeshare to sell herbalife through your poker website affiliate link at a Friday Night Magic tournament. I may feel bad for not getting in on bitcoin now, but back then, the biggest marketing problem Bitcoin had were bitcoin enthusiasts (still are tbh).", "r/nottheonion", "They couldn't get into it. There is a seed phrase that is impossible to guess.", "Imagine if you could lose all the money in your account if you forgot your password 🤣 \n\nI guess I'm just dumb but I can't wrap my brain around how Bitcoin isn't one big Ponzi scheme.", ">There's an 80,000 Bitcoin Wallet worth 5Billion.\n\nThere's not.\n\nCan you link to one on a blockchain explorer? No, because it doesn't exist.\n\nHe sent his bitcoin from his early mining to many different addresses.", "Even if he finds the drive, what are the odds it'll still work?", "Data recovery has come a very long way, even shattered/scratched platters can still have some data recovered from them if the circumstances are right. Many companies focus solely on data recovery and the tech they have is pretty wild.", "Average dump is about a square mile (Google estimates 600 acres, but close enough). So 4,014,489,600 square inches. Let's assume you dig down 10' deep on average, so 481,738,752,000 cubic inches.\n\nThe average hard drive is what, 6\" x 4\" x 1\"? So we're looking for a 24 cubic inch object.\n\nOdds are 1 in 20,072,448,000 if you basically searched every cubic foot bit by bit. Since they apparently know roughly where to look, it's a bit better than that.\n\nStill terrible odds though.", "There's also the guy that forgot the password to his 7000 bitcoins...\n\nhttps://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/technology/bitcoin-passwords-wallets-fortunes.html", "I cannot wait for this to be somehow turned into an Oscar bait drama starring Tom Hanks", "How would this thing me functional after being in a dump since like 2013? All the rain and shit would destroy it right?", "Why is Bitcoin saved locally and not in the cloud (or on blockchain)?", "Why is Bitcoin saved locally and not in the cloud (or on blockchain)?", "The wallet size is way more than 80k it’s actually 1.1 million BTC worth about 55 billion today", "Don't you need any access let out something? Am I missing something?", "People from 3rd world countries would eat your lunch.", "Why is Bitcoin saved locally and not in the cloud (or on blockchain)?", "The thought of what could have been is an alluring poison for the soul...", "Trust him guys", "I recovered a lost wallet recently that I put maybe $5 in it when bitcoin was around $800-1k each, maybe a bit more. Turns out that $5ish was now worth about $850, over $1200 when BTC hit it's peak. Super nice surprise after logging in and noticing my account balance was that high", "Kind of like buying a house which contains a locked safe.", "This probably isn’t an SSD, was a bit to early for that. It was already a worthless drive in 2013. \n\nOn top of that even when stored in optimal condition the data on an SSD will decay. Ot takes about 10? Years for the charge that stores the data to get so weak faults start to happen.", "wow, no warning? what movie was it?", "Well, get back to me every 10 years and we'll see. :) I'm fine to be wrong, but I could also be right.", "Lol this is old news", "Someone’s chillin with 350mil rn in that town", "that was 10,000 bitcoins, current value just shy of $600 Million.", "\"...... and I don't want \"those\" kind of women impressed with me anyway\" ...... Chapter 4 verse 3, \"Sad Song of the Incel\"", "A lot of questions, but is it illegal?", "It'll be in the last place he looks.", "Your neighbor says he can find her in the dark by smell.", "At least he will have closure, haha.", "If I get access to your Bitcoin without permission and take it, it's illegal (but almost impossible to trace and prove). I'm not sure if things would be different because this guy threw his hard drive out almost 10 years ago and they're looking for it in a dump.", "Date better equipped men.", "Turns out one of the dudes who’s looking for it runs it over without realising 😩", "I'm a bit visually impaired. I've been using this trick for years. Works every time.", "If only he checked the bubble gum machine before he created this mess 😳", "Likely inaccessible.\n\nYou can never truly prove that the owner isn't just biding their time... for anonymity or tax reasons or whatever.", "Poor guy", "I lost my Apple Watch and feel the same way", "Uhhh idk about Irish but if you said a traveler I would say they are a moving community that will, the bad ones at least, break onto private property, maybe public properly occasionally and set up an impromptu trailer park. \n\nA regular way to make money for these bad types of traveler is to sell scrap metal or fence whatever they can easily get.\n\nWe've had 3/4 pretty large groups of em, put up 7/8 RVs in a weird place on some farmers land, trash the area, knock over some posts, steal some metal, break a couple car windows to steal some stuff and get moved on by the police to wherever they go next. \n\n\nI'm sure there are good travelers, but you don't see them or hear about them.\n\nThe bad ones, they're disruptive, inconsiderate, all take no give, no regard and... Idk for fun they'll put dirt bikes on crop fields and trash something.", "This is as bad as the guy who has a ton of BC in his old wallet, but forgot the password.\n\nTo make it hurt worse, he mentioned he only had one guess left before it locks permanent.", "Musk bought over a billion worth of BTC earlier this year and sold half after a nice profit.", "we are a failed species", "That’s show how crazy life is . No one ever thought Bitcoin would be worth what it is today .", "Bingo.", "Proving once again I still have no idea how Bitcoin works.", "Not sure of other states, but our landfill is privately operated.", "This is the correct answer. No way in hell you would hold it until BTC hit $60,000. But the absolute perfect scenario is forgetting about it and discovering it now.", "Crypto is such a massive waste of resources", "Oof.", "This is some silicon valley shit", "Took me three months to find the remote to my sound bar and it was only under my sofa.", "have you ever trying sending firmware commands to a puddle, stupid?", "Damn lol 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂", "Even lost his marriage in the pursuit.", "I wonder how much of it he'll be able to cash out. Given what we know about bitcoin it's grossly inflated and any significant amount sold would probably crash the market.", "Lmao get fucked", "> The memory would have been probably NZ$10000\n\nSounds about right for Silicon Graphics", "Watch the video lol", "the fact that they would one day out of the blue be $350 million richer", "He kinda looks like Jesse Pinkman.", "Keynes once had a similar idea. He said the government should bury money in the ground for stimulus until of handing it out as they do now. I suppose it would atleast till some soil, but he never heard of a excavator I guess.", "Personally, I think it isn't something I'd invest in, but I don't think this is any crazier or outlandish compared to treasure hunts for lost ships at sea where recovery teams blow money on searches that may end up netting nothing worthwhile.", "Hmm that makes sense. I guess I knew that but never specifically thought about the etching methods. I wonder how SSDs would compare to HDDs, do they have similar resistance to wetness?", "Like early 2010s i was tipped 0.02 bitcoin that was like a dollar I think, guess who reformatted their hard drive few years later.", "The actual wallet balance is stored in the blockchain as a series of transactions into/out of one or many particular addresses. To figure out how much value a particular address has, you add up all the previous incoming and outgoing transactions on the chain. So, in this way, the actual value is stored in the blockchain.\n\nHowever, in order to actually generate a new transaction to send any of that value (aka use the wallet), you need a private key to sign the transaction. This is how you prove to the system that an address belongs to you.\n\nYou can think of the private key as a really, really big password. This must be stored locally, since otherwise anyone could use it.\n\nPrivate keys are stored in the bitcoin wallet.dat file on the hard drive, and there is one for every address you have. Without access to the private key, you can't send the coins out of an address, so the address effectively becomes useless.", "Rowan Atkinson: \"It's a race!\"", ">\tNo. Im not lol. I'm upset with the fact you're a twat. I'm directly addressing the issue. You're misdirecting. You're sumg because I misspoke about earlier articles stating flash drive/USB.\n\nThere’s no misdirection I pointed out you were being a tool like the many downvoted you get show and you took that like I punched your mother, \n\n>\tYou think your being funny and all this is doing is showing how sad your life truly is.\n\nAww your home life pretty bad mate? Does insulting people online make you feel better? \n\n>\tMeanwhile I’m sitting here smoking a joint watching elf. Idgaf about being wrong.\n\n“I don’t care !” Say the man arguing and screeching abuse about how they totally don’t care \n\n>\tI WAS WRONG AND MISSPOKE ABOUT IT BEING A FLASH DRIVE BECAUSE SOME ARTICLES STATED IT. WHO CARES. lol\n\nYou keep replying and having tantrums so I guess you?", "Do you know how much gold is lost at sea and how much dollars bills are forgotten inside walls and buried?", "I have dozens of old drives in a box in corner of spare room... \n\nToo bad none of them have bit coins lol", "Just give everyone involved $1mil payment upon success. You'd still be left with $300 mil afterwards and there is lots of motivation not to fuck up.", "Such an L", "I sold 95 ethereum @ $80 each in 2016/2017, now one eth is $4000... It keeps me awake at night", "Wow what a tragedy.", "Yep. I remember wanting to buy a quarter of a bitcoin for 100 bucks. Absolutely would have sold once the price reached 10-14k, which would have been a tidy profit, sure, but certainly nothing to plan an early retirement around.", "He probably will and it's sad. No matter how much money he spends, he'll never spend more than he could possibly recover. On top of that, he has a fair idea of what section of the landfill serviced his are when he threw the hard drive out, which is even worse.\n\nImagine you had a friend in the mega millions lottery office who somehow had an inside track on the winning numbers range and would text you every week with that range of numbers. Do you think you would resist dropping every cent of expendable cash to buy every lottery ticket with numbers in that range?", "Grossly inflated? Bitcoins market cap floats around $1 trillion dollars. In the next few years, it's likely to go up. Granted, there will be crashes here and there. Either way, even selling all of the BTC found would only make a blip in the market.", "Yeah not after 8 years, he's lucky if any of the data is recoverable after rotting for the past 8 years.\n\nIf he lost the HDD like a week ago then yeah you'd probably still find it, but 8 years nah.", "There are a few companies that specialize in extracting data from destroyed hard disk drives.", ">\nThere’s no misdirection I pointed out you were being a tool like the many downvoted you get show and you took that like I punched your mother, \n\n\nYour misdirection is coming from the fact your saying I'm mad I was incorrect. I'm not. So stop screeching your bullshit. Also many downvotes. Oh wow. Not like I don't have over 20k to spare. What ever will I do with this worthless ranking system. Wahhhh\n\n>\nAww your home life pretty bad mate? Does insulting people online make you feel better? \n\n\nNah. Legit just told you what I'm doing. Lol you even quoted it. \n\n>\n“I don’t care !” Say the man arguing and screeching abuse about how they totally don’t care \n\n\nI'm standing up to a fool who thinks they are better than others. That's all your doing. Trying to beat that chest. \"I was right! I was right mommy!!!\" That's what your doing. Idc that I was wrong. I even said it. Lol\n\nYour pathetic attempt to troll is going unnoticed. Cause truly I could care more. But I don't care at all. I'm just bored so I wanna have fun with the internet tough guy. 😚", "a hyperreal answer for a hyperreal hellscape", "FYI you did your math wrong. \n\nIf there is a 10% chance of finding something worth $350M, from which you would receive 40%, your cost-benefit analysis would put the value of the item at $14M ($350M x 10% x 40%). So really it would make economic sense to spend up to $14M to recover the hard drive.", "More like bincoin", "But, isn’t it still true that no one even knows if Satoshi is a real person?", "I’d have kept one or two I think. Just for curiosity sake.", "they're not even currencies", "Maybe not an institution, but a guy with 80k Bitcoin can certainly find plenty of people willing to loan him money.", "What if instead of data on a Blockchain, we used rare earth metals instead? That value isn't controlled by government and if the demand is there the value will increase. I swear this seems like such a good idea, it could become the gold standard for decentralized currency", "~200 bill USD", "Maybe I should have said open you're eyes instead. If you don't see mass adoption happening you're just not looking", "I have it tattooed on my forehead, so all I gotta do to remember my password is turn my computer off.", "That was the exact scenario, thanks for reminding me. Silk Road people were sent to prison and emerged millionaires.", "Should have been in ewaste reclamation instead of landfill.\n\nAlso should have wiped the hard drive before disposal.", ">\tYour misdirection is coming from the fact your saying I'm mad I was incorrect. I'm not. So stop screeching your bullshit.\n\nYeah hurling non stop abuse and insults is a good way to show you aren’t mad 😂\n\n>\tNah. Legit just told you what I’m doing. Lol you even quoted it.\n\nYeah sitting being mad and insulting others online lmao \n\n>\tI’m standing up to a fool who thinks they are better than others. That’s all your doing. Trying to beat that chest. “I was right! I was right mommy!!!” That’s what your doing. Idc that I was wrong. I even said it. Lol\n\nYou need a hug? \n\n>\tYour pathetic attempt to troll is going unnoticed. Cause truly I could care more. But I don’t care at all. I’m just bored so I wanna have fun with the internet tough guy. 😚\n\nI’m going unnoticed yet you are here insulting me and crying? \n\nAlso lmao at calling me an “internet tough guy” with the stuff you’ve said \n\nSmoke some more weed man and turn the computer off, you need a break. Have a good day you angry man", "That is hilarious. Give you bad boy a pat the head and kiss for me. Lol", "What landfill?", "I remember Bitcoin being talked about a lot on Reddit when I first joined like 9 years ago. I wanted to throw like $100-$200 at it but I was so confused about the wallet and how to actually buy it since there was no real exchange back then. Eventually I gave up. \n\nI don’t really beat myself up about it though. I’m sure I wouldn’t have held most if not all to this point.", "I was gonna say this is stupid, but on the other hand, so is paper.\n\n \n\n\nFucking people and their representation of value.", "Well, the cost-benefit analysis is pretty simple to do, it’s just guessing the probability of success that’s hard. \n\nIf his odds of success are 0.1% (which honestly seems high), then he should theoretically spend up to $350K to find the drive.", "Guaranteed someone found it and was like, \"Oh! Free computer!!\" and it's sitting in someone's house far away from the dump.", "This comment should be at the top. I've been following this for a long time. He's never got permission to go digging, despite offering up the equivalent of about $70m to the city to get permission.\n\nThe problem for the city is that they might not get their money. It's speculative. They don't want to do it for that reason.\n\nI reformatted a hard drive with a few dozen coins on it in 2010. Oops.", "Is he still searching all these years later??", "Thank you for your sacrifice", "Right there with you my friend....", "It could go either way. As scary as those machines look though, the weight is pretty widely distributed and the drive would likely / essentially be cushioned all around when driven over.", "As they say in Bloomfield, New Jersey, what a mook.", "I don't get the attention crytpo gets for it's environmental impact. Why does it feel like people rank crypto higher than big oil on their list of environmental concerns? Crypto doesn't have* to be bad for the environment.", "Someone selling 5b all at once wouldn't affect the price of BTC at all. 5b is tiny compared to it's market cap.", "Yeah and even if he found the drive I guarantee the data is irrecoverable, he expects a hard drive that went through a dumptruck to still work? How does an IT worker not know how fragile HDDs are?", "Bitcoin and the other cryptocurrency will lead to the death of us all.", "Shootout to Reserved Investments\nhttps://youtu.be/LhwbPhPGm4Y\n🎥 The 4 C's of Investing in Collectibles: Cards, Comics, Coins, & Currency", "I bought some bitcoin once, i wonder if there is a way to find it", "My sanity is worth more than that", "> Exactly, I remember when bitcoin first started I thought it was the stupidest concept ever and was never going to accomplish anything. History has shown that I was absolutely correct in that assessment. \n\nYou don't see any benefit at all to a currency outside of the governments control? Crypto could have been very good for society if it was actually being used as currency instead of assets. Only reason I can see being against it is having absolute faith in the government and believing that the government is a morally absolute.", "Wouldn't the drive be irrecoverable after the first big rain storm being exposed to the elements? Or crushed by a trash compactor?", "I had around 2 bit coin on my computer hard drive when I jses to buy drugs off the dark net. Computer trashed out and I threw it away. They were maybe worth 20 to 30 bucks a coin at the time. I didn't really even care at the time. Not a crazy amount of money but shit I could use it now.", "I would agree with that today, they're pretty insufferable but back then the vibes I got from bitcoin enthusiasts were anti-government/anti-banks which is pretty far from \"losers\" in my opinion.", "That's cool that you don't like Bitcoin, but don't kid yourself by saying it's not a real currency. It's as real as the pieces of paper we used to carry, which are also used to help illegal activities.", "So he could just try every password/ number combo he can think of ever using to access it or is it some randomly generated mess?", ">\nYeah hurling non stop abuse and insults is a good way to show you aren’t mad 😂\n\nYep. Totally non stop. Lol and no it's actually not a good indicator. Especially when people are dealing with know it alls like yourself. \n\n\n\n>Yeah sitting being mad and insulting others online lmao\n\nNope. I'm actually laughing at you and the fact you think I'm mad. Lol. I'm doing my own thing. This is just fun. \n\n>\nYou need a hug?\n\nJust got one from the wifey. I'm good. \n\n>I’m going unnoticed yet you are here insulting me and crying? \n\n>Also lmao at calling me an “internet tough guy” with the stuff you’ve said \n\n>Smoke some more weed man and turn the computer off, you need a break. Have a good day you angry man\n\nYou act as if have hundreds of downvotes. Lol it's unnoticed. Didn't say by myself. Jesus how can someone be this dense. Lol\n\nAnd dude. Your the one who fits the textbook definition of someone who bullies, manipulates and gaslights everyone. Lol. Hence the speil of you continuing to go own stating I'm wrong and continuing with it. That's false narrative to fit what you want to be seen. So yeah. Internet tough guy. Do you do this to people in real life too?\n\nAnd yet again. Not angry. I think you have dementia tbh.", "And what, just let it default so they keep the stock? I don't see how getting a loan is cashing out as you have to repay loans.", "I prefer to invest in stocks.", "Hidden treasure chest", "We could buy a Yes No button!", "It’s a cold wallet fool.", "Sounds like a guy Ritchie film", "I hope he finds it", "They should just get one of those giant magnets to pull it out of the pile of trash. Problem solved. \\brushes hands confidently\\", "I'm confused, I thought the whole point was that it was a distributed network and his ownership is documented on the blockchain all over the world. How does losing the hard drive prevent anyone from knowing that he owns the coins?", "Bit weird of someone who works in IT to literally throw tech in the bin, rather than recycling it or selling it on.", "\"Man goes broke trying to recover hard drive with bitcoins on it.\" TBA at a later date.", "Mkay let's go check real quick", "If he does whats the chance it still works?", "Ok but if he cashes out where does the 350 million come from?", "Probably not with the top on it.", "Didn’t penny give it to Zach?", "Great", "It’s good to see you’re still alive. What ended up happening to the heroine you swallowed?", "That's some funny shit", "You used Bitcoin like it’s supposed to be used, for transactions…", "> I have no idea how something this damn stupid got popular.\n\nThe amount of things you could be talking about here...", "This reminds me so much of Russ Hannerman searching for his thumb drive with his only successful IPO on it", "At least keep them until they [hatch](https://clickhole.com/90s-kids-rejoice-the-spider-eggs-they-used-to-fill-be-1825123339/)", "I can see that being a South Park episode: Randy was mining bitcoin in the early days, this shit happens, and he goes insane trying to track the computer down.", "Why not just claim the trash heap to be worth 7500 btc, and get a loan on the value of the heap.", "This is like what future treasure hunts are going to be like.", "The real question we all want answers to", "Isn't this story like years old", "Is he looking for it again? This was a news story like 6 years ago when bitcoin went above $1000. Maybe it's a different guy?", "Yeah I mean for 90k you might as well try and get the hard drive back immediately after losing it. Why wait so long?", "Russ Hanamen at it again", "I know someone who is schizophrenic and claims they had thousands of Bitcoin on a hard disk but lost it. Did this guy ever prove that he had it?", "He should work a Bit harder", "Ah I didn't know that I've never used them before.", "Seems like it might be smart to not mention the value of the drive, and just pick their best tech to do it.", "I can't imagine why this comment got downvoted. Here's an upvote.", "I'll go with B", "Or take a picture of the trash heap worth 7500 btc and sell it as an nft for 15000 btc.", "I think that’s the key component here. If the drive isn’t found and you unearthed literal tons of trash someone needs to pay to put it all back in its place and if the guy can’t cover that bill (and then some) I wouldn’t let him dig either", "Sure I see benefits to a currency free of external influence, I also see benefits to workers seizing the means of production. I see benefits to all kinds of things that have and rightfully did fail spectacularly. I also see hella' downsides.\n\nI have very little faith in government but nevertheless I enjoy waking up knowing the number is my bank account is worth approximately the same amount it was when I went to bed. I appreciate having a higher power to appeal too when my account credentials are stolen and some nefarious actor goes on a spending spree.\n\nCrypto is a shit solution to a problem that barely exists. \n\nI could go on but fortunately [Apenwarr](https://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=202111) has taken the words right out of my mouth and published them for all to see.", "And I thought throwing my car keys in the dumpster was bad.", "Poor gei", "I think he's been looking for years at this point.", "Yeah probably just a useful idiot", "We degauss A LOT of drives at work and the loud POP the machine makes scars the shit out of me every time.", "I think it's a bigger deal that Satoshi's wallet is dormant, so the market acts as if that money isn't really movable. If that wallet spends so much as a cent, suddenly, there's a potential to move 5b. If you have an active wallet with 5b, then it won't really impact the market if you move 1m.", "I don't disagree with your conclusion, but the reasoning doesn't make sense to me. There are finite resources, but we can continue to create more value without extra resources or by using those resources more efficiently/in different ways. For example, the services industry doesn't really consume resources, software and media don't really consume resources, yet all of these things can hold real, tangible value. And that is reflected in ever-increasing stock market values", "I don't know. If I had $0 (crazy, I do), and someone was willing to spend any amount of money for a piece of $350M, I'd do it.", "Gotta get dat \nGotta get dat \nGotta get dat \nGotta g-g-g-get-get-get, dat dat dat dat dat \n\nBoom, boom, boom, gotta get dat \nBoom, boom, boom, gotta get dat \nBoom, boom, boom, gotta get dat \nBoom, boom, boom, gotta get dat \n\nBoom, boom, boom, now \nBoom, boom, boom, now \nBoom, boom, boom \nBoom, boom, boom", "What is $350 MM. Mad Money? Mickey Mouse $. When talking crypto currency it could be anything", "Price of bitcoin up more than 12,000% since british I.T. worker lost hard drive.\n\nThat'd mean he threw away a drive with 2-3 million dollars worth of bitcoin on it.", "She's busy", "You don't know anything about crypto do you", "> I have very little faith in government but nevertheless I enjoy waking up knowing the number is my bank account is worth approximately the same amount it was when I went to bed.\n\nThat's just objectively not true\n\n> Crypto is a shit solution to a problem that barely exists. \n\nSex workers and drug dealers disagree. But I can understand if you have an authoritarian view that the government/payment processors are morally just in trying to stomp them out why you may disagree there.", "How bad is modern bluetooth? You could be streaming 320kbps or V0 mp3 to something like shure se215 or similar and it will sound pretty dang good compared to $30 airpod knock offs. Of course I prefer wired but sometimes wireless is better than that extra bit of sound quality you get by avoiding bluetooth.", "I’m betting one of the workers found it on day one and hasn’t said a word.", "Regardless of who is right here, I'm sure these guys that are spending what I'm guessing is a small fortune to recover the drive are aware of the issues you raised, If they're going ahead with its its pretty obvious that if the drive is found there's a good chance they could recover the key, regardless of what you think", "They are gonna find floppy with the instructions for restoring Angelus’s soul.", "I've heard about this years ago and was wondering if he was still searching for the drive. I'm glad to see he still hasn't given up on the search.", "Not from back then. Default bitcoin core wallet didn’t add an encryption passphrase until later.", "r/theydidntdothemath", "Wait there’s glass in hard drives?", "So what happens to the Bitcoins if the hard drive is never found?", "Okay? You have $350mm - that guy could try and ask me questions all he wants, I’d tell him to get fucked or I’ll hire some goons.", "They cry", "When they say crypto is the future this is the kind of shit I think about.", ">the flood of crap coming out of China.\n\nI prefer not to buy in to the problem. Which I think is only slightly worse than shilling for it, honestly. \n\nEspecially when there are options, unlike trying to do something like buy lithium batteries.", "now that can get you a 3090", "They wouldn’t be able to access it so it dosent matter", "They're probably not. Some anonymous hedge fund is supposedly saying they'll do it but there's no proof they're even real, the only source we have is James Howells (the owner of the drive) claiming \"oh yeah I can totally pay for it\". And it took him something like 4 years just to find this mysterious benefactor. \n\nMost likely they don't think there's a good chance, but even if it's 5% then spending 10 mil on a possible 200+ mil return is reasonable", "I mean if he has the private keys can’t he just unlock without the hard drive?", "To think I almost had a nervous breakdown when I lost my keys in the desert at burningman", "the fuck I do heheheehe fuck", "Yep this is how I restored like 800$ worth of bitcoin myself one time, just opened the wallet file and got the private key out.", "Cryptocurrency is another cancerous symptom of capitalism. This shit must be ended asap.", "He still searching for it wow", "If you have 10s of mils to give for help, why are you worried about your 350 lost? Isn't there a certain point where you can just earn ass crates of money just by having money?", "Fucking moron", "> there exists methods and devices to physically scan the drive and determine the previous data\n\nwhat methods?", "This is what online dating is like", "So the guy from Silicon Valley is real eh, or someone’s using a rouse to mine for oil or something", "1. It wouldn't be in the elements it would be buried probably covered by other trash if we assume it didnt get buried right near the top.\n2. Many experts have said it is still possible for the drive to be recoverable.\n\nObviously there is also a non-zero chance the drive is completely wrecked but nobody would know until it's found.", "Not anymore it seems; I probably just should have said magnetic platters.", "I don't know where any of this came from. Never mentioned anything about completely ceasing the use of oil, or implied ceasing oil would create an \"environmental utopia\". \n\nI agree, ceasing the use of something we rely so much on would plain and simply collapse society as we know it, however the use of it is destroying our planet. It would be in our best interest to try and replace it with something better and more environmentally friendly. There is literally no downside to utilizing a renewable resource, other than the setting up the process of using that resource.\n\nMy whole point is, crypto has such a minor impact on emissions that it's completely irrelevant when it comes to the discussion of emissions. It's like killing ONE cow and thinking you've eradicated the entire source of greenhouse gasses. There are far bigger fish to fry before we start worrying about things that contribute so little.", "The latter", "Geez I'd hate to be this guy. His life is consumed and defined by this one mistake.", "Sucking me off haha got em", "Nah, that's fucking stupid. That's like a police officer standing outside of a school occupied by an active shooter and ticketing cars in the parking lot instead of preventing the shooting because \"that's also bad, it should also be stopped\". There are unfathomably bigger fish to fry. There's no sense in worrying about a mouse in your kitchen when the whole house is on fire.\n\nIf you can't comprehend that, you shouldn't be having this conversation.", "Just a tip, if you violate the TOS on any google service (youtube, gmail, etc) they will ban you from all of their services. A bunch of people got baned from their gmail accounts because they spammed emotes too much in a youtube livestream. \n\nI'd recommend not using your gmail account with any other google service. I made a new account for each service.", "I love mine. I've replaced the like 4 times but the price is so negaligible I don't really care. It's about as often as wired earphones used to break on me anyway.", "I wish CNBC would have name dropped Newport in that interview. Just referred to us as a town.\n\nI'll have you bloody well know the queen made us a city a few years back because we gorra cathedral but", "I love these kinds of Reddit nerd fights", "No, but you don't need anywhere that much to live good life and be happy.\n\nAlso, no use crying over spilled milk.", "This is truly the dumbest timeline.", "Yeah, Halo is quite good", "You likely couldn't. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being earnest.", "Long passwords save lives or some shit", "This side quest is stupid.", "If the seal let's air through it's gonna get soaked by being in damp air for a couple months. Sure it would keep it dry in inside air but outside the only way to ward off moisture is to just be completely air tight and not let any pass through to transfer moisture. So from what you two are describing a normal hard drive would become water logged in these conditions.", "Finally I’ve been waiting for this for years.", "We should call it gold.", "Yeah that's what I was thinking too. \"Welp, that settles that. Time to move on with my life I guess.\"", "That's an intentionally ignorant take on the situation. In case you're really that dense... \nThis is a needle in a haystack scenario. \nThe idea of finding a $350M 'needle' that may or may not be in this 'haystack' is not worth $10M.", "Brush a fleck of flow in the dark paint on them or find small glow in the dark sticker dots", "Had this same thought. Threw out a dead drive with 1000 BTC on it back in college. I would have sold when it hit $10, no way I would have made it til today lol", "👍🏻", "Yea, if the guy’s looking for it, he still has the key or he’s wasting his time, so if anyone found it, it would be in their best interest to go to a lawyer and have them draw up a contract and contact the guy who lost it anonymously to see if they can reach an agreement… although I’m not sure what the finders keepers laws are on landfill contents, I’d assume the landfill company would probably reserve the right to make that deal.", "I’d say it’s 50/50. Either he finds it or he doesn’t", "350 million is a lot of treasure. Treasure hunter types have committed their entire lives to finding a few million. Even the chance of a 350 million payout is... epic", "I'm guessing he's missing his private key, which is what you use to access your bitcoin. Cryptocurrency is by definition decentralized, so there's no way the police or anyone could do something. The \"legitmacy\" to his claim is determined solely by his knowledge of his key.", "He should hire drunk me. A friend of mine lost her glasses (at a kegger when she (we) were underage) in the middle of a gravel pit. According to her she went back during the day several times with friends trying to find them but was unsuccessful. Cut to us hanging out 6-7 months later and about 15 minutes into partying at the same spot (which probably hosted a party a weekend the entire interim) I look down and go, “Hey, Tanelle, did you drop your glasses?” And she goes, “Are. You. Fucking. Kidding. Me?” because I don’t know about her losing them originally or having replaced them with the exact same pair. \n\nThis isn’t the first time I’ve randomly found things in ridiculously against the odds circumstances.", "That would be moronically stupid unless you want to be locked out of your own money forever if someone tried to brute force into it. So, no.", "Worth $50.99 tomorrow", "They cannot be accessed (that is, you can't make transactions with them) without the private key.", "Because oil has use as energy, and crypto is used only as a speculative vehicle", "This guy has been banging on about his missing hard drive for years. I doubt it’s real and if it is I expect he’s made more money from selling this story than there is on his missing hard drive.", "I've got a harddrive sitting somewhere with around 200BTC on it that I mined around a decade ago...\n\nYou best believe I've tried looking through almost everywhere. I think I even found it but it would be in an old school offline wallet and I'm not exactly sure how to recover those. Obviously I don't want to take it in to someone with more knowledge on how to access old wallets.", "Ooof", "It's not easily lost, this guy was just dumb. All you need to access your cryptocurrency is a 256 bit private key, so just a tiny string of 256 1s and 0s on any form of storage.", "They would do it on contingency. What may normally be $5,000 worth of forensic recovery if paid for the job could be worth $1 million (or a % of btc) if they assumed the risk that they would only be paid if it’s recovered.", "Hey Bill we noticed you moved out of your apartment into a mansion. You sure you didn't find it?", "https://youtu.be/bBC-nXj3Ng4", "somehwere in the Caribbeans an ex-landfill worker is smiling in the sun.....", "That silicon valley episode XD", "A currency in the most specific sense is money in any form when in use or circulation as a medium of exchange\n\nPretty sure Bitcoin fills that definition", "No, bitcoin isn't even a real \"digital object,\" it is a quantity determined by the transaction history of a person. So if a person receives 0.3 btc and gives 0.2 btc to someone else, they have 0.1 btc. The way that you make transactions is with your private key (wallet code).", "Exactly", "The man already had a fortune before the btc was lost: wife, 3 kids, house, dogs and an IT job in UK.\n\nHe threw away two fortunes in a single lifetime. The first one money cannot buy, so he really ruined his life.", "The man already had a fortune before the btc was lost: wife, 3 kids, house, dogs and an IT job in UK.\n\nHe threw away two fortunes in a single lifetime. The first one money cannot buy, so he really ruined his life.", "Until quantum computing exists", "You don't actually store bitcoins, they aren't digital objects you store in memory. The \"ownership\" of a bitcoin is tracked through the transaction history of all bitcoins, which is stored in the blockchain. So each person stores a copy of the blockchain on their computers, no matter how many bitcoins they have. The storage space of the blockchain is reduced because it uses something known as a Merkle Tree, and it's only about 4.2MB/yr according to the original paper.", "They probably mean that the private key can't be \"tracked down,\" or they are lying about being an expert.", "By definition there is no centralized place to \"secure\" bitcoins, it is a decentralized network. The bitcoins are still there, what this guy did is he lost his private key, which is what you use to access the bitcoins. It's actually very easy to store the private key, and you can back it up to multiple devices, he just messed up.", "For what it's worth there is absolutely a system of recycling and repurposing trash in these quantitied that people employ in lesser developed countries. Trust me. I work in shipping. They make use of trash left by vessels.", "Because Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. You solved it.", "Would the reappearance of such a hight number of coins change the course in any way?", "No. No it is not worth $350 mm. It’s Bitcoin after all.", "That's a lot of money! I hope he finds it!", "Bitcoin is literally the blockchain, which is public. What he lost is his private key, which is used to access the bitcoins. The bitcoins are still there.", "People have taken their own lives after not being able to retrieve their bitcoin from wallets they forgot passwords to. I can't handle losing a screw driver hardly. I'd go insane if this was me", "He lost the private key which is used to access the bitcoins, there's no way to lose bitcoins.", "He lost the key", "Oil has zero use, clean energy is just as if not more attainable, oil is being artificially propped up by corrupt governments via subsidies.", "The search continues?", "Oh it's still there, he just lost the private key which is used to access the bitcoin", "All you need is the private key/password to whatever wallet you used", "So it seems the private key was on the hard drive and he made no backups for some reason", "Like I believe this story it's been around sooo long", "5 Billion isn't going to tank a 2.3 Trillion market.\n\nI believe Satoshi dumped the wallet because Julian Assange attracted the attention of the NSA to BitCoin. He quit posting around then after commenting on Julian's actions.\n\nSatoshi's probably still a millionaire if not a billionaire.", "I'm not buying this story at all. Even back then, that was an enormous amount of money. There is no way a person would ever in their right mind store that taking the time to mitigate such a risk.", "People have a huge misconception on how unbelievably durable and recoverable data is.\n\n[This video from Linus Tech Tips shows you just how good data recovery has gotten](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUsoangGFs)", "But, I rember reading this same story like 2 years ago. How damn long have they been looking in this specific spot?", "In order to get bitcoins you need an account, if this is so what difference does it make that he lost his hard drive?", "I Have Discarded More Hard Drives At About A Buck EACH", "Its possible he acquired the BTC many years prior and didn’t know it’s value was steadily increasing over the years, and then threw the old computer out. I don’t see or hear of the price of BTC unless I specifically go look it up, and we are experiencing a cryptocurrency craze. In fact I mined some with a roommate in college in 2015 on our shitty school laptops but we made so little that we just stopped and I forgot about BTC until I heard about it in the news topping at $60k. We crunched the numbers and figure we have about $100 worth in those old laptops. Pretty much the same thing that could have happened to this guy.", "You might be surprised to learn that cash incentives are not very effective for technical / scientific work and often lead to worse outcomes.", "According to the video he lost it in 2013. It has been out in the rain and sub zero temperatures for 8 years.\n\nEven if he finds it, it's long past any possibility to repair it.", "Different risk appetite.", "Should I tell him I was there when he tossed it and picked it up and kept it?\n\nNaaah. I’m enjoying my yacht. Sorry mate. Salvage rules!", "Bat Droppings Are Hot Right Now Just Dial 1-800-IHateBanks", "> For all we know every bit may have flipped.\n\nAh. That's an easy O(1), just flipp them all back. (... I kid, I kid. 🙃)", "I Found The GOP Like That...", "They've been looking since at least 2015. So much for narrowing it down.", "Definitely recommend reading the New Yorker article that just came out on this - gives a lot more info :\n\nhttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump", "The newer models have wires attaching them together, so you won't lose an earbud!\n\nYou don't have to charge them either!", "They may know where to look but they've been looking since 2015", "Yes", "\"no\" would still be a very tough pill to swallow after the amount of time, money, and resources sunk into this venture.", "That’s commitment", "Well dumps track where they put trash on certain days- so there's kind of a big red x provided he knows what date he threw it away", "You had the option at the time to just buy $40 of Bitcoin straight up and didn't. It's the same investment decision.", "Can't wait to watch My Big Fat Gypsy Bitcoin", "Did they finally get permission from the Environment Agency to do this?", "If he works in IT why the hell did he throw a HDD containing data in the trash in the first place? The guy is obviously clueless.", "Should offer a decent amount of it like 10% or more then leave it at that instead of worrying", "Imagine that a few years go by and he actually finds the thing and it's eventually recoverable, and either\n\na) He walks away with a chunk of a billion dollars, or\n\nb) By the time he finds it, Bitcoin has crashed and it's now worthless.", "ENgineERs aRe so dUmb", "How does he even know it's in that particular landfill??\n\nTalk about looking for a needle in a haystack...", "You know he’s going to spend all this money doing this, only to not find it, and find it as soon as Bitcoin drops to .006.", "Take out a five billion dollar loan with a major international bank with the wallet accepted as collateral regardless of what it might fetch on the open market, then default?\n\nYeah... not entirely sure that would work. Maybe if you found a really dumb megabillionaire...", "Yeah? Bitcoin isn't real money.", "Money isn't even real value. This is a story about a gambler chasing a loss.", "True. It's probably why he agreed to give over 2/3rds to investors plus a huge reward to the city - he can walk away with the 5 million he would have got and still be happy.", "That's why in my company we store disks two weeks before deleting, a user just came after a week saying she misses IMPORTANT LEGAL DOCUMENTS.", "Was it found in the last 9 years?", "Backdoor Sluts 9", "Why the fuck would he announce that?", "I dunno, you see the name \"D.T. Max\" and you kind of expect an American Gladiator to be sitting there.", ">They've got a massive team involved using some pretty high tech stuff and they've been able to narrow down its location to particular plot\n\nSo he's only out tens of thousands more dollars if he fails to find it.", "There was a really good Reply All podcast a couple of years ago where a woman, a journalist, who had bought what was then a fair amount in Bitcoin (years before it grew exponentially) got it to do a story on the Dark Web. She was doing a story on buying drugs underground, and couldn’t remember what she spent or had left over. The amount she had originally gotten would have been maybe several hundred thousand dollars. \n\nBut her hard drive was damaged. They eventually had it forensically repaired and tracked down the originator of Bitcoin (I think), who Was able to unlock the access. \n\nIt was totally suspenseful, leading up to the reveal of how much Bitcoin she had left. She hadn’t spent it all on the Dark Web. \n\nShe was utterly frustrated at not being able to access it. When they finally did, she had spent almost all of what at the time would have been worth a lot. What she had left was something like .000016 Bitcoin or whatever, worth at the time about $43 or whatever. It was a minuscule amount. \n\nShe was beside herself wondering throughout the episode how much she had. She laughed at the end, and said something like, “can you imagine if I had a ton of Bitcoin and we couldn’t access it?”\n\nThis poor guy must be near madness trying to recover more than 1/3rd of a billion. \n\nIn his yard.\n\nMy God.", "Wouldn't it be ruined after 8 years of being in a land fill with weather and garbage?", "This story pushed up every couple of years. Legend has it he’s been looking for this hard drive for a few years now.", "So what device did you use to type this comment?", "> $5 billion is a ton of money.\n\nOne ton of gold is about $46 million, so $5 billion is about 96 tons of gold.\n\nA million dollars in $100 bills is about 22lbs. $5 billion is 110,000 lbs, or 55 tons. That's the load capacity of about 50 Ford F-150 trucks, with the box full of cash.", "moderator from /r/cryptocurrency here: one thing that the expert on the panel said is that \"bitcoin is untraceable.\" and that's not entirely true. \n\nRemember that ransomware attack on the oil pipeline earlier this year? The FBI was able to trace where the bitcoin went and it turned out that even after it was sent through a \"mixer\" application, they were able to determine that 85% of it went to a centralized exchange (think of this as a stock exchange where you buy crypto and withdraw it) where it is assumed the ransomware attackers were trying to trade it for another, actually untraceable, cryptocurrency known as monero. \n\nThe FBI got a warrant or some other legal document that allowed them to seize the stolen bitcoin from that centralized exchange, and then returned it to the original ransomware attack victim.", "Why did you call your ex to call your phone instead of just calling it directly? I get it's a landline but you can just walk away to look after you dial the number.", "Password1234!", "Maybe, but I'd also be a bit pissed that I'd managed to lose a ticket between when I bought it and the draw. Especially if it was a $350m draw.", "I wouldn’t be surprised if someone grabbed that laptop before it even made it to the landfill and formatted it. I remember when I first saw this story he wasn’t looking for it initially so he must have gone insane at this point. Poor dude.", "According to the New Yorker article - Howell says the key is 64 characters and the total folder size with all the info is just 32kb. There is every chance the data is recoverable \n\n\"Howells’s bitcoin folder, which contained only his private key and the history of his transactions on the network, took up a tiny amount of disk space—“just thirty-two kilobytes!” he told me.\"\n\n[SOURCE](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump)", "Clearly you havnt tried tin or trn.", "Its not worth anything because bitcoin isnt a real currency", "Posted this above but according to Howell the key is 64 characters and the total folder size with all the info is just 32kb. It's easily recoverable. \n\n\"Howells’s bitcoin folder, which contained only his private key and the history of his transactions on the network, took up a tiny amount of disk space—“just thirty-two kilobytes!” he told me.\"\n\n[SOURCE](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump)", "Man I somehow got a hold of an Indigo 2 around 2005, it was a marvel but sadly, unusable by me, since I had not a friggin clue how to use it.", "wah wah", "Subs hype that everyone gets rich but thats plain stupid. Only ones getting rich are the ones selling their bags to the ones probably not getting rich", "What if he's just lying.", "Soem guy probably found it and formatted the drive to use in his pc.", "As someone who threw out my 80gb hdd with 12.75 btc... I understand his pain.", "Seriously. Life is so short. How is having money for a few years worth throwing away what you have.", "If one penny of that wallet moved, Bitcoin would crash. It's easily one of the most monitored items in the Internet.", "He only needs a 64 character key - he has a letter from the world's leading data recovery company stating they can most likely recover it.", "Irish traveller types?", "Oh boi. Edgy.", "This. -100%", "I had a 12 word passphrase for a wallet written on a piece of paper that I put away for safe keeping (lost) from about 8 years ago. It had .5 Bitcoin on it. I've have torn my place apart looking. I can't imagine losing that much.", "That speculative nature is reflected in its volatility. The entire crypto space has 2000's tech bubble vibes at the moment.", "As if he would be able to cash that out... 😂", "He kind of has, sadly.", "God damn Loch Ness monster!", "They would have traveled around in wagons over 100 years ago but now live in free council houses taking their respective estates value to 0\n\nFixed that for ye", "There’s trillions of dollars just in US money, before you can even compete with a world total. Your math is wrong bub.", "And nothing of actual value was lost.", "Dulce du leachate, it's delicious :)", "2013….did he find it?", "Surely if he finds it it’s still useless as he needs the password no?", "Oh, friend. I am an attorney, and we had a case where the evidence of a series of transactions that would prove my client’s case that there was a particular agreement and transfers of funds were stored on a defendant’s hard drive. \n\nWell, seeing what was coming, the defendant took his external hard drive with the evidence and threw it on a fire in a fire pit in his backyard. \n\nAn investigator found the drive in an ash pit in the yard a month later, and it was warped and burnt and apparently destroyed. \n\nWe contracted a top-notch forensic recovery firm.\n\nThey were able to image all of its contents within about three weeks. For a good amount of money.", "It was a movie. It was The Lord of the Rings, and this guy is Gollum.", "Always thought IT workers were stupid. This proves it.", "Please post photos of the little rascal!!!", "When it produces your private pass phrase it specifically says to write it down on a piece of paper", "And they aren’t password protected.", "35? You forgot a zero. It’s worth 350million. So…yup keep working.", "He still hasn't been allowed . The image of the diggers in the screenshot is just stock image", "Got no dog in this fight, but those are all metal, the silver of the cast aluminum in the screw threads and other unpainted parts gives it away. I'm reasonably certain a plastic bodied hard drive doesn't exist, aside from maybe a specialty application.", "Dunno I heard a lot of anecdotes of old hard drives surviving insane conditions as well as opposite of them breaking unrepairably because of a misplaced fart. \n\nIf anyone is more knowledgeable on this enlighten us: how plausible it is for a good ol' consumer hard drive to survive a decade in a dump?", "Yes! I can't believe how good they are for the cost and form", "This interview is new. The footage they show is from 2013. He has not found it. They won’t let him search. This story pops up again every now and then.", "Hell I lost $100, 5 20s a few months ago. I was 100% sure it was in a jacket pocket. I had $200 in there, remembered grabbing a $100 out and putting the other $100 back. Bam Disappeared. I still think it’s laying around my storage room area just out of sight or in a shoe where I hang my coats near the back door too. I don’t tear my yard or house apart though because it’s only $100. Even though I probably lost it out and about. But still. I keep wondering lol.", "It’s officially legal tender in El Salvador so the 7 million people living there use it as currency. \n\nBitcoin the network is used for remittances where the sender remits fiat currency, it’s instantly changed to BTC, the bitcoin travels over the layer 2 payment network for near-zero cost, then is instantly changed back to fiat currency. This isn’t possible with any other monetary network on earth and totally nullifies any issues with exchange rates. \n\nProof of work is vital to the value of the currency and network security and isn’t a waste of energy for those who prefer to store their wealth in the bitcoin network. These are 200,000,000 voluntary participants globally who have traded junk fiat for sound money they can own / store / send, no exceptions. \n\nAlso, “blockchain” is buzzword nonsense. It’s just a small part of what makes bitcoin such a revolutionary system. Bitcoin is the only* decentralized, distributed, programatic monetary network on earth that guarantees user rights to store and transact wealth as needed. All of the shitcoin protocols are centralized variable redundant siloed trash that can never guarantee the rights that the free and fair bitcoin network guarantees participants. \n\nBitcoin skeptics are laughably ignorant to all these realities.\n\nAlso, fiat currencies are fluctuating wildly as well, but only downward as they lose purchasing power steadily in all economies. \n\nBitcoin however steadily gains value vs all fiat currencies.", "Well.. That's worse than throwing your car key in the rubbish bin 😳😑😱", "It’s not in his yard. It’s allegedly in a dump controlled by the city.", "Thanks for the correction. Nevertheless.", "Glass? Are you sure they were glass at that point? The guy threw away an old computer in 2013. Which means it likely was from the 2000's (mid-late). In the early 2000's I know for certain HDDs were aluminum substrate, nickel plated because I made millions of them.", "It’s probably already sent back to China and recycled.", "The future is so stupid..", "worth it", "This reminds me of the one guy who won a bunch of bitcoin but couldn’t remember his password and was down to his last attempt to login before it locked him out forever lmao imagine being that dude. I don’t know if he got it on his last attempt but you’d hope so", "$350 million is more than enough to quiclly disappear to a\nprivate island.", "The problem with bluetooth is that there were no lossless audio codecs available up until [just a couple of months ago](https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2021/09/01/qualcomm-adds-bluetooth-lossless-audio-technology-snapdragon-sound), and even then you can be affected by interference or other connection quality issues.\n\n>aptX Lossless is a new capability of the proven aptX Adaptive technology and a new feature of Snapdragon Sound™ Technology that is designed to deliver CD quality 16-bit 44.1kHz lossless audio quality over Bluetooth® wireless technology. Qualcomm Technologies has taken a systems level approach and optimized a number of core wireless connectivity and audio technologies, including aptX Adaptive, which work together to auto detect and scale-up and are designed to deliver CD lossless audio when a user is listening to a lossless music file and the RF conditions are suitable. \n\n>aptX Lossless features & specifications:\n\n>* Supports 44.1kHz, 16-bit CD lossless audio quality\n>* Designed to scale-up to CD lossless audio based on Bluetooth link quality\n>* User can select between CD lossless audio 44.1kHz and 24-bit 96kHz lossy\n>* Auto-detects to enable CD lossless audio when the source is lossless audio\n>* Mathematically bit-for-bit exact\n>* Bit-rate – ~1Mbps", "Wired headphones are the way my man.", "What does being unaligned with NATO or Warsaw have to do with your finances?", "Isn't trash like hard drives and other computer parts recycled for precious metals?", ">\tvalue isn't controlled by government\n\nThere’s the issue.", "In 1994, the place I worked at laid off a bunch of Engineers, and I got my hands on a Sun Workstation that had been used for CAD/Finite Element Analysis. I figured out enough Solaris to install and configure a Usenet server, that everyone was very happy to have. \n \nAfter I left that job, my boss got a surprise bill from the local university we were peering from, who hadn't tracked our network usage and back-billed him for a years worth of NNTP data.", "I'm expecting cracking the forgotten passwords on wallets to become the next 'looking for sunken treasure' cottage industry.", "I remember Lily Allen saying she'd turned down payment of 200,000 bitcoins for a concert back when they were worth ... a lot less.\n\nShe said no at the time (understandable) and words to the effect that she chose wrong in retrospect (also understandable).", "Go look up the energy mix and percentage of it made up by renewables worldwide. Oil coal and other fossil fuels remain the overwhelming majority.", "But if you and others hadn't spent bitcoin when it was cheap it wouldn't be worth what it is today. It would be a worthless trinket clogging up people's drives.", "What a sad existence, wasting your life looking for a better past", "He's a dumbass for getting involved in Shitcoin in the first place...", "Yes and logically the objective should be to put an end to dirty power as a whole, not just one thing that uses that power", "I'm not sure, that's just what I always thought they were. Looking into it, they're probably not. All the ones I ever opened seemed liked glass but I've only bought solid state for a while now. \nWikipedia says: \"Platters are typically made using an aluminium, glass or ceramic substrate. As of 2015, laptop hard drive platters are made from glass while aluminum platters are often found in desktop computers.\"\n\nBut it doesn't really matter because it's down to the casing to protect the magnetic coating from being leached.", "Did it still work?", "Literally mining for bitcoin. We've come full circle lads", "I have a $20 pair of wired 40mm on-ear JLabs used for my PS5/Xbox that also sound really good when connected to my dac and headphone amp. My wife has a set of skull candy sport wireless buds that sound pretty good also. They are water proof and stay in the ear while at the gym. Comparing them to my high end headset I would say they are worth the money. I like good rich sound when I listen to music but I’m not using an amp and over-ear headphones for gaming and listening while working out. The lower price and convenience make them worth it in the situations they are meant to be used in. Also I won’t feel bad if I lose/break a cheap pair of cans.", "Life is crap for some people. Some people never get what they want. Some people get it but lose it right away.", "Did you completely misunderstand the article? the total reward is 350MM.\n\nWhat you're saying makes 0 sense.", "Same here. Either that or his dog bounced it off his butt into the darkness.", "The New Yorker had a very good [article](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump) recently.", "The probability of success is literally what we calculated there. The breakeven probability of success, based on expected reward and cost. \n\nThis is a simple concept and you clearly can't grasp it.", "10 years ago, its probably ruined due to the elements by now", "Lmao he's literally agreeing with me and you can't even read it properly. You're hilarious.", "Can’t watch the vid right now. What’s the double M stand for? Is it more than $330M as in three hundred and thirty million dollars?", "I know security company who do this haha, Tbf it’s rotating team and it’s more convenient", "And those security companies do it themselves too haha\n\nOffice workers are the same everywhere, even those in security company", "Finally someone mentions it.\n\nAll the people who say they would have loved to own shares of Amazon, google, co. And crypto would have sold way before it hit the moon.", "Dude Satoshi could move 0.0000001 of a bitcoin out of that wallet and it would crash 10-30% on fear alone.", "Oh early day bitcoins for sure wrote down the passwords in plain texts because at the time Bitcoin was worth jack. I wonder if I still have an old wallet somewhere. Is have to check some day.", "Irrelevant- they aren’t finding it", "To be fair, I really doubt he could sell the entirety of his wallet all at once. There's no one that would buy that much all at once.", "I am so happy for that guy, I remember when I first saw that post it was old and that was a while ago. So great to have a nice little bow on that. It really says a lot about not giving up and sticking to it and seeing things through. On the scale of Life there may be more negative then positive however the positive is more dense, holds more weight and completely balances out it seems. Love to god", "This is 100% gonna be the future of mining after all of the bitcoins have been mined", "Hmm gos to know.", "Written on a piece of paper and stuck to the side of the harddrive case.\n\nAs is tradition.", "I pray this man pays off the mortgage or car payment people who work at the landfill. Hands-On charity, the universe works in mysterious ways oh, I hope the guy doesn't get greedy", "Everyone should own their own physical storage device. You can’t rely on free access to someone’s servers lasting forever.", "Market cap in general is kind of a dumb way to evaluate things. \n\nPretty sure Theranos, the fake pharma company whose ceo is now in court for fraud, was worth billions at one point, and I'm sure people were talking about its market cap too. Look how much that ended up being worth", "Tbf it recently hit 240 again then dropped to 150 or so so who the hell knows anymore", "2nd place 🥈 at life, please just accept this, let the trash lay to rest.", "99.99% sure the double M is a typo of sorts. It’s $330M.", "With a wallet worth that much, he would not be able to sell it all at once because there's no one that could effectively buy that much Bitcoin at once. You either have to sell it in small chunks over a period of time, or pen a contract with a big time investor to agree to buy all of it over a set time period. \n\nEven if he COULD sell it all at once, it would tank the share price.", "If the hard drive is broken? Cause he still somehow get some of it back?", "As a bonus: in order to make finding the hard-drives easier, society massively reduces waste! Eventually crypto starts becoming a net positive for the environment, and actually generates something of _actual value_.", "Imagine learning about 21st Century man and how they fucked over both the environment and each other over a currency they made up themselves. \n\nLike literally, we made up a thing to use as a trade standard, and then proceeded to destroy everything to get more of it. When you boil it down to the basics, it's insane.", "Pretty sure that scene from Silicon Valley is based on this story, he has been searching for that hard drive since 2013 - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/27/hard-drive-bitcoin-landfill-site\n\nWhat's nuts is that back then, his bitcoin would have been worth £4million. Now it's worth £350million!", "Yeah, totally something I would tell the world... So that others start digging for it", "🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣", "Our trash is actually pretty tightly organized. Specific trucks are assigned to specific routes and specific dump sites. Many landfills rotate where incoming trash is dumped to ensure even/efficient distribution.\n\nThere was a case in....somewhere on the East coast of the USA where a body was spotted in a landfill. They were able to determine what neighborhood the body came from in part because of where the body was in the landfill.", "How do you accidentally dump a hard drive into a disposal bin.", "I’ve always hated this story, I think this guy is so pathetic. Give it up, you’re not getting that HD back.", "Sue said she believes the nerve of that doggo. I asked her.", "Logic and reason have long since passed this guy by. He's completely blinded by the potential of billions of dollars that he's nearly upended his whole life to find it.", "I bought 3 grams of weed online some years back totally 1ETH, that's some expensive weed.\n\nI used to live near a weekend produce market and someone was selling smoothies for bitcoin too back when a bitcoin was worth peanuts. Someone definitely bought a smoothie for 50k.", " 😅 \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEjaZw95kI", "Oh, just a crime show junkie haha", "So what's he gonna do? Find him and what? With that money the guy can move wherever and hire a bodyguard team easilly", "Deflation is inherently bad for the economy. But then again I don't expect crypto bros to understand economics.", "Was your laziness worth $500??", "FYI unless you did a secure erase, even after reformatting the data could still be there.", "Humans are fucking stupid", "Somebody on a Reddit thread said he would give 0.1 Bitcoin to everybody who replied to him if Donald Trump won the 2016 election. At the time, Bitcoin was at less than $1000… \n\nI don’t even remember what I spent my ~$70 on. But that person honored his fucking word and had to have given away at least 10 BTC worth…", "The ethereal nature of crypto is also bad because people have a hard time placing any value in something that literally does not physically exist. \n\nThere is value in fiat currency, or things like gold, because you can hold it in your hand. There is value in shares of a company because the company is a physical thing that produces a product, which itself has physical value. \n\nCrypto is just ones and zeroes, not to mention it's reliance on mining which is itself inherently awful for the environment.", "Well.. they found the fucking ET Atari games.. granted there was a ton of them..", "Ya the private key itself is probably encrypted with a password. Whether it's just a text file with the private key in it or whatever. Could even be saved in a password manager. I haven't read how he thinks it's saved.", "Yeah go ahead. Go get some rare earth metals and process them.", "I like to view it like getting a normal cypher written on paper. How is the paper gonna know how many times you've tried?", "If we are ever going to have a digital currency, it's just going to be a digitized government backed fiat currency. It's never going to be these speculative shitcoins.", "Why isn't anyone pointing out that hard drives are fragile and very much not waterproof.", "One man's trash, another's treasure; still rings true huh...", "His point is that the value of crypto fluctuates so frequently and severely that it's utility as an actual currency with which to buy things I essentially none.", "Lmao what institutional support? Apart from some companies that I can count on one hand, nobody is supporting it and you can't effectively use it to buy anything anywhere that matters.", "I've got half a bitcoin somewhere that I don't know how to access. It doesn't bother me though. I mean, it only cost me about £50.", "And nothing of value to society was lost.", "Hammer", "Finally understand this saying.", "You have absolutely no clue how any of this works OR you're a troll. Hoping for the latter", "You'll have a happy surprise", "This is a touchy suspect for a lot of people. It’s actually the most-fucking hilarious thing going on with our economy. The trigger of doing anything but glorifying Bitcoin and its hoarders", "Whether BTC is a natural resource or not has no bearing on whether it causes inflation. Inflation is the increase of the money supply and the subsequent devaluation of a currency. BTC/cryptocurrency's existence has virtually nothing to do with increasing the circulating supply of US dollars. Sure, new coins can lead to rising cryptocurrency prices that pump/inflate the the coin price, but that is still an entirely separate beast from inflation.\n\nAre you not going to take basic principles of scarcity, supply and demand into account when it comes to crypto price?", "He's never going to find it.", "Russ is that you", "If this dude finds it, he’ll just die from the shock lol", "And that's why he would have very likely not have waited until it hit 700 bucks. Assuming he's an average person, he would have done average actions of people using bitcoin in that time and would have made a small profit. Don't fall for survivorship bias.", "It's on a pattern every 3 months it goes past 230+ then the Short colluders bring it back down. Check the graph if you don't trust me. Each time it goes back down it goes down less. A higher low. Its 400 End of year.", "Gotta log in as an Admin account", "That's literally my main reason not to get buds... I can get some new Sony XM4's for almost half price. But I'm sure I'll lose them", "I mean he was already British so", "He's never actually been given significant access to look and never will by the council.", "At what point do you give up though?", "He's never actually been given significant access to look and never will by the council.", "The one who is defending would be the one with the 350 m though!", "Holy crap!", "Metals are removed from the waste stream with a big magnet. It's gone.", "You'd be incredibly surprised how good data recovery firms are, there might be a chance if he finds it\n\nBut he never will lmao", "???", "I worked with a close friend of his I found out he hired loads of people to help him putting him in debt. Even the council got involved. His Facebook cover photo is Donald duck diving into a hard pit of gold coins for ironic reasons. Feel bad for the guy but he sounds like he took it on the chin pretty well.", "Yeah, he's losing years of his life chasing a life he'll never have", "No I think they already covered what you just said on the second half of their statement", "Wouldn’t the rain have destroyed it by now? Rust?", "Good thought. In 100 years, what will be more easily hackable do you think? ...\n\npasswords or the block chain itself?", "making bitcoin more valuable, yes", "Lmao... The irony. Read the white paper. And Satoshi designed to work within law. Sorry if that breaks your online anarchist views", "I'd assume the op is English.\n\nA large portion of England assume all gypsys are Irish, probably because they watched snatch once. \n\nThe problem is they then conflate that to all Irish are gypsies. \n\nAlways fun when some caravans end up on the industrial site I work as \"I see your family are visiting\" etc jokes roll in", "I thought modern drives were filled with inert gasses to increase the efficiency of the storage.", "What does Bitcoin look like on a HDD? Is it like.. files in a folder?", " Lol right. That doesn’t make me feel any smarter", "Made in China != Made by China.", "They do warn you, once. I think it was a Tom Hanks and or a Tom Cruise movie. Some big name blockbuster I should’ve known better than to jack so early after\nit’s release. I would’ve been happier had it been Backdoor sluts 9 cause that was a better movie. \n\nI think it’s usually cause I end up seeding for a bit after I’ve jacked it. They do send one letter. When you get the second letter you’re screwed and that’s when I realized the gravity of my actions cause I tried to get to my email to recover my passphrase and it was no bueno. I know I should’ve been using a vpn but at the time it slowed my connection to a crawl and I was ganking hundreds of movies just to watch once. \n\nI do regret it slightly but I don’t sweat it. I’ve blown way more than that on ‘cocaine and hookers’ and wouldn’t change it for the world cause you only live once right. It’s only when I see stories about millions being lost that I’m like damn I’m glad I’m not that guy.", "Decrypting a key would take trillions and trillions of years, it's not impossible but a bit impractical!", "Sounds like a \"mislaid\" based on the facts you present here. He put the valuable files on the PC, but forgot about them when he threw it out. Like if he sent a locked safe to the dump, and then remembered that he kept his life savings in there.\n\nAside, I think in British law, any historical hoard or find must be surrendered, going to national historical organisations, and the finder may or may not receive a small reward as thanks.", "when you have tens of harddrives it makes it hard to tell them apart", "Time to make the council gone \n\nLol", "jesus christ", "Maybe the hard drive destroying machines were broken that day 🤔", "MM = Megamolar?", "So you’re saying travelers still roam in wagons?\n\nAlso: Travellers make up 0.6 per cent of the population yet account for 10 per cent of the male prisoner population and 22 per cent of the female prison population. So this is in turn reflected in surrounding house prices to the areas they’re placed in. \n\nJust facts, shame you don’t like them.", "I lost around 8 bitcoins in 2015 it wouldve made me some money today but who knows if I wouldn't have sold it earlier", "This is why all these coins are fucking stupid. \n\nNot mention all the rich have gobbled them all up so its only rich people making money on them anymore. \n\nGovernments need to ban this dumbass shit. They only hurt the poor.", "This video and news story literally gets circulated every time we're about to have a crypto pump. I don't know why, but it's been happening for years now.", "sell it to the guy for half or whatever.", "Christ you know how much fun they must have had making that movie", "Remember, very few bitcoin transactions are as a currency. So don't expect it to follow the same rules as a currency.", "Cryptohobo.", "I don't see anything about that on that article", "You can recover data from bent/broken drives, so even if it is rusted an expert might be able to restore it.\n\nIt is the reason drives from datacenters are first overwritten multiple times with random zeroes and ones (because the write/read head might miss the alignment, so you could read the 'edge' of the track still if you only do one pass) and then shredded, which gives more security than just throwing them out.\n\nIt is quiet surprising also what you can restore with freeware like testdisk from CG security or other tools for home-use. That is the reason I never sell any of my already used HDDs, SSDs and flashdrives as well as phones and other devices with sensible data.", "mm=million", "TIL something.\n\nSo if you left. Hard drive buried in British Mud which is known to be quiet acidic. How long would you give it?", "Not sure, I am no expert by any means.\n\nI would say even if he finds it, it is probably broken beyond repair, but I would be happy for him to be proven wrong.", "Update: it's been found.The video is outdated. It took nearly 5 weeks to find it. It has been given to a high level recovery team to recover the files. It is expected almost all of the data will be recovered. This is because the hard drive is unharmed. One can say it's in a solid state.", "Go ahead and explain how 10/350 represents the probability of success.", "That sucks. Imagine if there was a type of headphone that had some sort of string attached to it to stop this happening. Even better, imagine if said string also powered the headphones so they never needed to be charged???", "Yeah but it's not small compared to countless other bits of hard debris in the pile that are constantly getting compressed and moved around with it. The destruction is more likely to be cracking and breaking than actually penetrating and ripping it apart, and then it's going to sit in trash juice which just eats everything metal. I'd be amazed if there was a surface in the entire thing that wasn't totally corroded and busted apart within a few months of going in. It's theoretically possible that it got somehow instantly encased in a clay mud with ideal ph and thus could survive generations in the ground, but I'd guess it's about as likely as finding it in the first place. \n\nI'm not a geologist so I can't tell you what their soil is like but I did drive a dump truck and do junk/trash removal for a few years and have spent more time in dumps and landfills than I care to freely admit and basically anything that wasn't sitting on the surface wasnt even worth looking for, even if you had a good general idea where it was. It was like a fire - anything that went in started instantly dying and becoming part of the pile itself.", "The total reward is not $350,000,000, it’s $10,000,000. We’re talking about the value of attempting to collect that reward, not the $350,000,000. You need to compare the cost of searching to the probability of collecting. Again, the reward to total is not a relaxant number.", "Imagine thinking the drive would have anything of use readable on it after this much time in the elements", "Just because he was mining early doesn't mean he knew about disk encryption AND was also actively using it. I got into Bitcoin mining early as well, had lost around 3 BTC on a crashed drive, never cared though because it was just a fad back then. I'm in IT as well and never encrypted my entire drive back then, as full-disk encryption made the system noticeably slower (unless you had a self-encrypting drive, which was expensive and rare back then). It's not a problem these days though since most systems have some sort of hardware accelerated encryption, so the overhead is negligible.\n\nI did encrypt my personal documents and some sensitive stuff like browser profiles though, but didn't bother encrypting any of my BTC stuff because it was just a fad back then, there were barely any sites you could use to purchase stuff with and there were no digital currency exchange sites you could use it on either, so it felt pointless at the time.", "Is he though?", "350 dollars of M&M's? Understandable.", "if it was refuse, it will \\certainly\\ have come within short distance of a electro-magnet. There is nothing on that drive now, not even Cyber-Jesus can recover data from that.", "It's the BREAKEVEN probability of success. That is, that's the minimum success chance to make it worth spending 10M to gain 350MM.\n\nWhat we're saying here is, since the actual probability of success is definitely smaller than 2.857%, it's not worth pursuing.\n\nBreakeven means \"expected reward = expected cost\"\n\n\\-expected reward = total reward \\* probability of reward = 350M \\* probability of reward\n\n\\-expected cost = total cost \\* probability of cost= 10 M \\* 100%\n\nSo the breakeven point is:\n\n350 M \\* breakeven probability of reward = 10 M\n\nBreakeven probability of reward = 10 M / 350M = 0.02857 = 2.857%", "I love that voice. The British one.", "I had four in plain text on a laptop that was stolen. Was only worth $5 at the time so I was more concerned about the laptop.", "SMDH!!", "Yeah, the company he contracted with is feeding him a line of bullshit if those are the numbers they told him for being able to recover the data. Sorry, but it's not going to happen, and said company gets paid either way, just more if they impossibly recover the wallet.", "If I recall correctly he didn't realise for 6 months.", "Okay. I see the problem here. Since I assumed that the man who lost the drive is only paying out if it is found, I assumed we were discussing the merits of spending money in an effort to gain the $10,000,000 reward. Which is why I was working with an estimated cost of searching vs the probability of collecting the reward. If it is $100k to search, then the probability of finding it needs to be greater than 1%. You’re talking about the value to the owner giving out the reward. I’m talking about the value of searching for the reward, since I assumed the owner would bear no cost unless it was found.", "pass rather course which seem three station after his true. case read", "could you imagine after years of searching it Turns out it was 7,500 Litecoin he had.", "If you want to learn more about Bitcoin, this is a good site:\nhttps://www.lopp.net/bitcoin-information.html\n\n(not my site)", "I remember a housemate of mine telling me he just bought 10 bitcoin worth about £100 and how it was the future of currency. \n\nI told him he was crazy and reminded him he still owed me £50 for the electric bill. \n\nEvery time I see one of these stories I think about that guy and wonder what he did with them. \n\nHe never paid me for the bill.", "30 days of not using it?", "It probably has water damage", "Some future archaeologist is gonna find it and become the richest person in history. /s", "And actually making the remaining btc more valuable", "> Sex workers and drug dealers disagree.\n\ndon't forget child/human traffickers and thieves.", "There are still a lot of wallets that werent use for about 8 years and then suddenly start selling their coin. Most of them are Silk Road drug dealers that just got out of jail and suddenly are worth millions upon millions", "that's the thing everyone laments about. When btc was 8k, 1k, etc etc, everyone says \"man, i had xx btc, what if...\". next year when it is 300k the same people would still talk about their missed bitcoin.\n\nvery few people have the mental fortitude and strong belief to hold all the way through a drawdown, even fewer can hodl when it bounces back to where it drew down from.", "[Trash Economy](https://youtu.be/ERB6ylz21_k?t=544)", "More importantly though, I'd be curious if the drive was even in any salvageable condition. The moisture, oxidation, and deterioration alone make me cringe.", "You can pretend like you're playing lofi chillstep.", "Is your imagination really that limited?", "I lost ten bucks at the tip twenty years ago, nobody ever said they found it. Probably worth twelve bucks now. Not as good a growth fund as land fill bitcoin", "I lost a pc on which I had private key for wallet with about 18 BTC. Saved in notepad.", "inb4 someone saw an HDD in the trash that day and said, “Neat!” As he brought home and wiped it.", "Isn't that a sign that transparency is actually a bad thing?", "Whats the model? My over the heat headphones are beat to crap.", "Lol I had a few dollars of bitcoin back in 2011 from dinking around with mining. Think I had like 5-20 dollars worth or something. I remember I saved the wallet on m external drive and it inevitably got lost. No idea why I saved it locally. I use cloud storage for everything... even back then.", "Well, at least the vast majority of people made the same decision you did. :)", "Lol it’s like Big Bang theory", "This is heartbreaking.", "Lmao", "Maybe a brute-force search will work better? How much computational power can you employ for 349 million dollars?", "why even believe this guy? seems like a quack job", "wish i was the one finding it , and sell it for 50 bucks :))", "https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/address/1FeexV6bAHb8ybZjqQMjJrcCrHGW9sb6uF\n\nGood enough for you?", "I call complete bullshit. No one misplaces 350m", "Lmfao just like Russ Hanneman from Silicon Valley 🤣", "Well... We know what he's going to be doing for the rest of his days.", "Fair play, I hope the guy finds it", "Cool ad hominem. Anyway, deflation is bad for the economy in general and for the legal tender of a given country in particular; deflation is not bad for a commodity, which is what Bitcoin is.", "This story is very old btw", "Repeating of course", "Ah, thanks for the breakdown.", "Hey y’all you think bitcoin might be dumb AF?", "Well doesn't seem like he had his key recorded anywhere else. Think of it like a long random password that you can't reset. Yeah, the future of money right there...", "I feel so bad for him lmao", "This reminds me of the guy who can’t access 2.2 million because he can’t remember his password. In January when the story was published he only had 2 attempts left before he’d be locked out.", "1% of global electricity is enough to give power to about 240,000,000 people in Africa and South America who don’t have power \n\nBut please. Use it for your imaginary money that you still can’t use in 99% of the world\n\nLoser", "Yeah, I fully agree that there are drawbacks to crypto, specifically the lack of reducibility to a useful good. I would note, however, that fiat money's value is absolutely not derived from your ability to physically hold it or convert it to prescious metal; it's derived from the faith that public has in it. Similarly, the value of gold is not tied to its usability as a metal. Gold's value is almost entirely speculative and based on its function as a store of value. Lastly, I agree that mining isn't great, but it's also not the only way that crypto functions. Proof of stake validation mechanisms are becoming more and more popular, with the second largest crypto by market cap looking to move to a proof of stake system in 2022.", "And that's if he's even telling the truth", "So this looks like it’s from 2013. I highly recommend a very recent New Yorker article. For one it updates the story and provides enough technical detail that my engineer brain was pretty satisfied. For another it had such an emotional and human ending that it just blew my mind. just talking technical stuff and then It zooms out to the effects on this guys life and just hits you like a freight train. Super well written: Coin Toss https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump", "But then you are not cool like others walking around with AirPods /s", "So you are saying there’s a chance I might find it?", "Really just more evidence that this guy is a fucking liar. I see nothing to suggest he's doing any of this for anything beyond the attention he's getting", "This story has to be about 8 years old by now. It seems to resurface every so often.", "It's ok, you received something that has infinitely more intrinsic value than shitcoin", "I think that's actually extremely optimistic. It's more a speculative investment that will never actually live up to its claimed worth, because it's a terrible form of currency", "This is my home town, this was old news 5 years ago.", "Probably Cruise's Mummy-movie. I went in expecting it to be crap due to all the reviews, and I was still disappointed.", ">Lmao what institutional support? Apart from some companies that I can count on one hand, nobody is supporting it and you can't effectively use it to buy anything anywhere that matters. \n\n\nWell, some of the largest [hedge funds/asset managers](https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/financial-services/pdf/3rd-annual-pwc-elwood-aima-crypto-hedge-fund-report-(may-2021\\).pdf) in the world, along with the largest [custodial bank](https://www-wsj-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/bitcoin-to-come-to-america-s-oldest-bank-bny-mellon-11613044810?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16393968099527&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fbitcoin-to-come-to-america-s-oldest-bank-bny-mellon-11613044810) in America, to start. Virtually nobody thinks that Bitcoin will be used as a means of payment intermediation. It's a cryptographically secured digital store of value/speculative asset, nothing more, nothing less.", "😂 I agree it literally could become the gold standard", "Yup. I had 0.75% of a bitcoin on a hard drive wallet. I wiped that hard drive once and lost it.\n\nI didn't think of backing up my bitcoin wallet at the time. I only bought the bitcoin to purchase a subscription to a piracy site for 0.25 btc.\n\nWhen I wiped the hard drive I think the 0.75btc was worth like $25. It's worth about $36k now.", "The key to it is saved locally. The bitcoins exist you just cant access them. Also being decentralized there is no way to recover them because no entity controls them", "Bwuh? I seem to remember a time when they were worth like 3 cents.", "Some lessons are only learned when you hurt.", "You realise everything you are using to type that comment with was made using a form of oil lol. \n\n\nFrom your keyboard, to your phone to your PC, it all has plastics and thus oil inside.", "It would probably be in a bank so I wouldn't have to worry about it being in a landfill.", "What codecs we’re available prior? Whatever they were sounded pretty transparent.", "They are also easier for people with ears that AirPods don’t fit well in since you can usually just pull the rubber pod out and put it right in your ear.", "Cutting out waste of useful energy (crypto currency mining) is a good thing, and yes, we should also improve our energy mix to be cleaner", "That's crazy, I still use my hotmail to this day, is it really deleted that easily?", "Tragic", "Russ Hanneman???", "I probably did but I didn't answer.", "I keep seeing this story over the years. He kept offering a share to the landfill owners if they'd let him look but they always turned him down. It was worth less the last time I saw this story, so I guess now that it's $350m they've finally told him yes, he can look for the drive.", "Kid put it to much better use. I wish this whole crypto bs never started to begin with. It’s just destroying the planet and creating another platform for get-rich-quick-schemes.", "This is olddddd", "Probably still higher than the chance of being able to recover data from it", "2013…", "Not long, apparently they just got approval. As to when he lost it? Over a decade I'd guess, been a while since i read the article, but long enough back that he farmed 8k over the course of several months. Today that's unheard of.", "I am knowledgeable on this, friend. I've worked IT for five years and worked almost three of those years for Dell's hardware division.", "If that guy can fly me out and give me lodging I'd be out there everyday digging away. Anything to get away the my hometown for awhile", "This just demonstrates how fucking stupid the idea of making money the most important part of life is... IT'S JUST NUMBERS PEOPLE... INANIMATE NUMBERS FFS!\n\nThese fools are going to spend who knows how long sifting through miles of garbage just to MAYBE find numbers on a piece of plastic 🤦", "This guy would be absolutely fucked in my country then lol", "This just demonstrates how fucking stupid the idea of keeping track of money is... IT'S JUST NUMBERS PEOPLE... INANIMATE NUMBERS!!\nThese fools are gonna search through miles of garbage for who knows how long just to find NUMBERS on a piece of plastic 🤦", "I honestly have no idea!\n\nIt's an interesting thought though, and something I wasn't aware of.", "Are they actually getting paid either way? It's my understanding these companies operate on contingency.", "He might’ve also just forgotten it was tied to his computer instead of like a coin base type predecessors", ">Lol nah, you’re full of shit if you are telling me you don’t say “million” and instead say “thousand thousand” \n\nThey're not full of shit, they've just conflated 'say' with 'write', which is indeed true.\n\nIf you're being really pedantic, then 'math' doesn't have vocal chords so it can't 'say' anything. You could also consider that a person 'speaking' in sign language is actually speaking, in which case...idk.", "you should ask your debet card ;) it has a cpu that receives the keypad input and lets the atm know its ok/nok.", "Absolutely brilliant, ManBearPig!", "well, yes, I meant the recovery phrase. I admittedly have only dabbled (I bought $10 worth of BTC and ETH once), but I can fully rebuild my wallet with only the recovery phrase. So all I can think is that the hard drive in question has a file with the recovery phrase recorded in it.", "I think that's just the US dollar again", "He didn't do the smart thing, which would be to back up his key phrase so he could do that. So the only place with his wallet phrase is the hard drive that he threw out.", "A group has offered to pay for the workers and all the cost to dig it up and retrieve it for like 70% of the money on the hard drive, the guy literally lives a street up from me.", ">but hd's are sealed\n\nI always thought this, but unless it's a helium filled drive it will actually have a tiny weeny little vent hole!\n\nWhen someone told me this I thought \"Don't be fucking stupid, they're sealed!\"\n\nThen I pulled a drive out of my spare parts and had a look... THERES A DAMNED VENT HOLE?!\n\nhttps://www.howtogeek.com/127433/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-do-not-cover-this-hole-hole-on-hard-drives/", "He took bitcoin mining too literally", "This is basically the plot to the movie Holes, right?", "Also people need to commit and not expect a quick buck, my first share cost me around 420$ but I averaged down so hard for the weeks after that, I threw so much money at it I had an average of 60 dollars, then it jumped from 40$ to 180$ in a day, and nearly tripled my total investment.", "I'm just guessing /not an expert, but;\n\nI don't know what the platters are actually made of, but if it was just \"dirty water\" I don't think it would cause any damage to the platters.\n\nThe electronics inside would probably be messed up I'd expect, but those can be removed and rebuilt into a new drive.\n\nI've taken apart an old HDD before out of curiousity (instead of just binning it) and the platters are pretty cool. Very flat and smooth, and make a beautiful ringing sound if you tap the edge.\n\nThey make awesome coasters too. There also a couple of pretty sweet magnets in there.", ">That's just objectively not true\n\nHeld sufficiently true for most humans most of the time. Held not true for any crypto currency ever.\n\n>Sex workers and drug dealers disagree. But I can understand if you have an authoritarian view that the government/payment processors are morally just in trying to stomp them out why you may disagree there. \n\nCash continues to exist in a wide variety of convenient forms. With a nice bonus of being easy for small scale not-really-a-crime^tm crime, while also bring difficult for big boy real crime. Where as crypto currencies are the exact opposite.", "And this is why they need The Vault Verse. SMH! Reach out to them if you want safe keeping of your crypo and NFTs Thevaultverse.com", "When quantum computing becomes a threat (maybe during our lifetimes) you'll just double the key-size. It's mainly asymmetric ciphers (uses two keys, public and private) that would be in danger, for hard drive encryption you use symmetric ciphers (one key) and from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography):\n> In contrast to the threat quantum computing poses to current public-key algorithms, most current symmetric cryptographic algorithms and hash functions are considered to be relatively secure against attacks by quantum computers.[2][7] While the quantum Grover's algorithm does speed up attacks against symmetric ciphers, doubling the key size can effectively block these attacks.\n\nEDIT: I'll tack on my favorite [quantum computing reality check post](https://crypto.stackexchange.com/a/59796). They're not even close to factorizing even the smallest ~~primes~~ integers.", "Paper hands, that’s what happens lol, my most expensive share was around 420 but I averaged down in February when it was 40 then made profit when it jumped up to 180", "Mt gox lol", "I last saw this story a few years ago, the Bitcoin value was lower back then. Maybe the big increase changed their minds?", "Buddy found his wallet history showing the btc he purchased/sold for me back in 2013. 13 bitcoins. I just chuckled when he showed me. The milk is spilled, no use crying.", "He offered to give half to the city of Newport to improve it (can't polish a turd, though) if he finds it.", "You know that moment you realize you lost something valuable or accidentally got rid of it? Like a wallet or keys. Your heart drops suddenly.\nThis guy probably needs surgery to get his heart out of his ass", "You could just say \"thieves\" you know. I'm an Irish traveller and we don't all travel around stealing and with the educational problem in the community I doubt they'd know much about Bitcoins or other digital currency. It's easy to discriminate on marginalised communities but what does that say about you?", "Did you file your claim on the mtgox account lol", "Yeah, hope he finds it", "There are plenty of us good ones but unfortunately news outlets only report the worst of us. I have many family members who are productive members of society but some random traveller family that breaks into a yard to camp for a week gets news coverage", "If it is the same model this guy might want to buy one", "Okay so what was your point in saying 10 corporations are responsible for 70% of emissions?", "He probably has the same frantic feeling I have when I can’t find me keys to the car to make it to work in time.", "Sorry to double comment, but I'm genuinely curious - I assumed that you meant that crypto drives up the inflation of governmentally backed fiat currencies like the USD, GBP, Yen, etc. Did I misunderstand?", "He should be fined for bad recycling", "Our Myspace pages will outlive us all.", "Why is it a commercial and only a commercial when I try to view the video", "Ah, you're right. It was actually Bitcoin Cash they tipped me; I didn't realize it was a separate thing. That's actually not had such a ridiculous change in value over the years: it's worth $4 now, or I could have sold it at peak for $12.\n\nGood catch!", "I asked this someplace else, and the answer seemed to indicate that it wasn't common practice at least in the early days of bitcoin.", "Don't feel bad, you would have sold at $50.", "Yeah, crypto is VERY final. Once you've sent it, you've sent it. That's it.", "Its been years, if he finds it i will be extremely surprised", "Waller? Happened to me too", "Last may someone offered to buy a bicycle I was selling using etheryium. I looked at the price and said no. The next week the coin tanked even more.", "I was talking to some guy about these bitcoin keys - he said \"it protects my money from if a bank goes under\" and I said the daily likelihood of your bank going under on any given day is one in a million, the likelihood you'll lose your keys is 1/100.", "That subreddit is honestly one of the dumbest things ever", "Damnnn", "You have to mine them for bitcoins silly....if you don't check you will never know if there were some bitcoin buried in the silicon of your hard drive.", "Hack Tip: tie a string of highly visible color between the two and hang it around your neck….", "So when the operator of this machine finds the hard drive, he’s realllllly going to tell the guy he found it lmfao.", "That's the silver lining.", "It wasn't 350 million when he lost it, early on Bitcoin was nearly worthless.........", "But that just sounds like Beats Flex with extra steps 😜", "Not all crypto uses that much energy. There are plenty whose energy consumption is negligible.", "Right, he's upended his life and he basically wants to upend the lives of the people in his town by digging through years of their layered trash, because his money.", "Yes I have a few hundred bit coin that are forever lost and no one is ever getting them ever", "Lol yup I would make it my life’s mission as well", "I still have mine, it's Outlook now but the address itself still ends in Hotmail. Did you lose it like the dude above or because they are no longer?", "Pretty sure this was a reference to the OP who lost it", "Just read a story about a dutch guy that did this… how many people has this happened to?", "Too many shitcoins already", "Oops", "Depends on the landfill, the one where I used to live did not do that. You just drove up onto the dump and threw your shit on the ground and a dozer would run it over, eventually it would be buried under a layer of dirt, another layer of trash would be constructed on top of it.", "That is if you don't think it would crash. I remember when it hit 1k for the first time and massively crashed. I figured that was the end of it at the time.", "I think the city is looking at it from the perspective that nobody is going to want to pay if it's not found. That's a pretty logical perspective, considering the people who run the town are there to look after the town and it's people, not just some random guy who lost money.", "Sell it to that South American country that recently announced they're going to a Bitcoin standard. San Barbados, isn't it?", "It's possible the drive and/or wallet is encrypted with a password, so only he would be able to access it even with the hard drive. That would effectively make it his. Nobody else could access it and it would always be in their interest to turn it in to him for a reward.", "i. t worker not nuking the drive and rendering it beyond recovery? 🤔", "Sounds like a risky way to store that much money.", ">What codecs we’re available prior? Whatever they were sounded pretty transparent.\n\nThere are many different codecs. \n\nSome examples: \n\n* SBC - The bare minimum requirement among bluetooth codecs. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBC_(codec)\n* AAC - Apple products and YouTube uses this codec. Uses more battery than some of the other popular codecs.\n* Sony's LDAC - Mainly used Sony products.\n* HWA's LHDC - An open source codec - Available on Android 10 and up.\n* HWA's LLAC - Another open source codec. Popular in gaming headsets.\n* Samsung Scalable Codec\n* LC3 - Relatively new codec. Created to be the successor of SBC and comes with accessibility features which can help those who have hearing loss and/or wear hearing aids.\n* Qualcomm's aptX\n* Qualcomm's aptX HD - The standard among Android phones (except for Samsung phones).\n* Qualcomm's aptx Low Latency\n* Qualcomm's aptX Adaptive\n\nSome people swear by AAC or aptx HD due to various reasons (audio quality, stability, battery usage etc). You can switch to different codecs in the settings depending on the product you own.", "I think it had McAfee on it.", "The thing is, the actual computer itself isn't necessary for recovering the coins. Crypto isn't stored locally, it's all on the Blockchain. If this person just had their seed phrase written down in a safe place, they could very easily access the funds without having to dig through a dump.\n\nHold onto your seed phrase, folks.", "Actually that will risk damaging the platter. What they do is hold the platter still. Have a spinning reader head going around the platter to read whatever info off from it.", "Kroll has recovered drives that were scorched and subject to heavy impact and the elements. \nI wouldn’t be surprised if they could still recover the data. \n\nhttps://www.computerworld.com/article/2535754/shuttle-columbia-s-hard-drive-data-recovered-from-crash-site.html", "I really like my aeroplex headphones for work.\n\nThey are bone induction and sit outside the ear. If they aren't at the loudest you can still easily have conversations and hear what's around you while listening.", "That sounds like he's a lot more likely to stumble into child porn than money :x", "Mine was in college from buying drugs. It's lost on a red SanDisk USB drive. It has 3.12 coins on it. From back in the day. If anyone finds it CHEERS! Drinks on me!", "Physical mining is a classic!", "yeah I sold in 2014. made less than 20k. went on holiday in Vietnam and fucked a lot of hookers. I don't regret it", "Sounds like there's a need for some kind of centralized regulating authority to keep track of this stuff for people, in exchange for a modest fee.", "A thumb DRIVE! A thumb DRIVE! That’s an actual THUMB!", "Holy shit.. he actually convinced them to let him do this.", "B-b-but, isn’t it they only get 10 tries b4 the account is locked permanently?????", "There are no “coins” stored on any hard drive. All Bitcoin is on the blockchain. Are you talking about your private key?", "You pay the loans at a later date when hopefully the stock has increased significantly. They are known as wealth liquidity loans.\n\nVery simplified and unrealistic example: you own a bunch of stock and lets say 100 shares are worth $100k. Your broker gives you a loan using a ludicrously low interest rate. You hope that by the time you have to pay the loan your stock has increased so much that a single share is worth $100k. Sometimes these loans don't even get paid off till after the person is dead anyway and then its taken out of their estate.\n\nObviously there is risk involved and your share price could tank but, that's the risk you take as opposed to just selling shares and paying CGT etc..", "Considering that Bitcoin seems to be in a bit of a tumble it would be pretty funny if he found it only to find that Bitcoins had fallen to next to nothing.", "More the reason to use the corded ear bugs. Lol.", "Same here", "God knows what he would stumble upon. Probably half of the WWW is on drives from that era.", "Yep there was a German guy who has forgotten his wallet password. He has used two failed attempts and has one guess remaining and his wallet contains over 7000 Bitcoins.", "Give up", "A pretty simply employment/contractor contract would take care of that.", ">Oil has zero use\n\nWut", ">Yeah? Bitcoin isn't real money.\n\nYes it is, it can be exchanged for goods and services.", "Yeah, but that's not the point /u/doives was making. He said bitcoin is a deflationary, safe haven store of value against runaway inflation. I don't think it needs to be an everyday currency to succeed.", "Bro I found that shit 3 years ago stop all that digging!! I’m spending you’re money better then You ever could !with you the money would’ve just ended up in the trash any ways .😂😂😂", "yikes", "Such a shit post, this was years ago, all over with, never getting it back, fuck reposting old shit", "Ohhh you're a karma farmer, fuck me get a life", "That's obviously what he's talking about.\n\nIf you're so dedicated to worthless pedantry, shouldn't you at least know what metonymy is?", "Right on right on", "I threw away a rare beanie baby once", "$22 billion has been traded in BTC in the last 24 hours. \n\nA few hundred million is nothing.", "Coinmarketcap lists the trading volume of BTC in the last 24 hours at $21,690,820,527. \n\nHis wallet would be about 24 minutes of BTC trading volume.", "I hope he never finds it.", "lol imagine he doesn't know how to format the hard disk he just keeps using the operating system on it without knowing he has 350 million dollars in the disk", "This makes me realize I don’t understand bitcoin.", "how the heck did Elon Musk find a value of 1.5 billion dollars Bitcoin then?", "Fiat money, like the dollar, is also backed by nothing. So yes, total scam.", "You can actually recover data from formatted drives. all regular formatting does is pretty much mark it available for use, it's not until something else is written on that part that the data becomes unrecoverable.", ">Seriously. Life is so short. How is having money for a few years worth throwing away what you have.\n\nHindsight. Presumably because he rated his chances quite highly at the offset.", "Last stage of grief- acceptance. \nHe needs to let this go.", "It could have been mined. I mined some bit coin that was worth like $10 at the time. Thought this was pointless so I stopped, find out later it's worth hundreds. I wouldn't be able to prove I owned this, but lucky for me I was able to reset the password on the mining site.", ">I'M sO rAnDoM n' QuIrKy\n\nHuge projection here. It's Reddit, and making shitty jokes is par for the course. It's the switcheroo of double entendre and it will outlast us all.", "I lost it because I didn't sign in to it for 30 days or something like that.", "You should nickname your little thief DB.", ">\tfuckin a baby\n\nOh dear", "Hockenson, had Knox on the bench. \nThere was seven things that all had to go my way the past two weeks to make the playoffs. I had like a 4 percent chance or something. If I would have started Knox in time all of them would have happened. The universe likes to fuck with me.", "No finding it destroyed would give me closure. Not being allowed to search for it feels like the worst outcome", "Yeah this is a fool's errand. It's either already been picked before it reached this center or it's too corroded to read. Electronics are not meant to last and not in those conditions.", " Satoshi supposedly owns between 750,000 and 1,100,000 bitcoin.", "Please, someone make a bot that says this!\nIts almost Christmas, do it for the holidays!\nJust change the \"he's\" to \"they're\" and its future proof!", "Spinstand magnetic force microscopy is the name of the technology.", "Jokes on him! I was super into bitcoin mining way back in the day. Had about 5k of em. Had the hard drive just sitting around. Ex needed some storage so I popped it into her computer…", "Easy for me. Not for morons like you", "He was an early Bitcoin investor. Let's just say it's safe to assume something else was on there.", "Yeah it’s gone forever", "Your opinion is worth less than the turds my cat drops in the garden", "Make it a global cleanup game...", "_Journalist interviews journalist_", "Nah a guy like this would probably kill themselves if that happened. According to another redditor who claims to have been a coworker or something, they lost their wife and kid over this obsession.", "Can confirm.. Please don't ask me how I know.", "I have a box of old spinners that used to be media drives, all of which were retired before I even knew what bitcoin was and now I have a Trezor mini wallet.", "Right. \n \n\"oh, if i still had that 20 Bitcoin i bought for $1, i would be a millionaire right now!\". No, you would have gladly sold it before it hit $100 because \"surely, this is the top of the market\"", "Literal shitcoin", "Bitcoin itself will never be \"adopted\" in the sense of becoming a true currency average people use. Transactions are too slow, it's too volatile, and transactions aren't reversible. The best case scenario at this point is that it retains its value as a commodity and rich people invest in it but average people continue to not have it or use it just like precious metals or stocks. Even the majority of hardcore Bitcoin supporters are long past recognizing and accepting this. It's something most people realized years ago and why we even have things like Ethereum, which still isn't super great as a currency but overcomes some, but not all, of bitcoin's major failings.", "To be fair though, that profit would have been nice too lol.", "I hope he finds his $350 million. I would be devastated if I ever lost $500 million. I mean, just think of all the things $277 million can buy.", "I have some $40 Occom ones that have the over the ear loops, the usual buds just don't stay in my ears at all.", "feel that. spend 120 on a pizza back in the day... expensive ass pizza.", "Hope he finds it", "Actually the bitcoin exists on the blockchain. The hard drive only contains the private keys to move the bitcoin.", "Sometimes I take a stroll down memory lane and look at my gmails from 10 years ago to see what I was up to.", "I actually enjoyed his pun. Carry on /u/rbmedia", "I know several people who had a few Bitcoin in like 2012 who lost their wallets before it blew up and none of them are insane now.", "It's not if you don't actually get the $350 million. You're essentially saying spending $10m in lotto tickets is worth it for trying to win a $350m jackpot. It's a gamble. How do people not get this?", "Mine are the MDR-XB50BS/B \n\nBut the WI-SP600N would work as well\n\nI swear at least like twice a year these go on sale for almost 50% off so you just have to track them until they are on sale. It's basically any of the \"sport\" earbuds from Sony because they change model numbers all the time. Water resistant as well, which is helpful.", "People will find those 10-20 years from now and laugh because it will be the equivalent of a VHS TAPE now", "Yeah, I've used a drill press in the past. If someone wants to try and recover data after what I've done do those HDDs, they can have it.", "I mean yeah that makes total sense. The DAC and amp are going to help a lot. For the price you get what you get, and if they're fine for a certain application then sure.\n\nBut most headphones in that price range without the assisting devices are going to have some rough sound quality up until a certain point, especially with buds and wireless buds. I'd invest the money in something more.", "Same. Haven't had my identity stolen yet, so I think I'm good.", "The hard-drive doesn't hold the bitcoin though...", "I'm confused on how a coin can be on a hard drive. I thought the whole point is that it couldn't be in one central location?", "Stay poor\n\nImagine trying to preach eNerGy uSe but having no problems with using the rest of the internet. \n\nYou are actually retarded for this comment below lmfao. Going to bat for fiat because \"it's not always used for corruption!\" As if that doesn't apply to any money. Fiat is the only example? How about gold? Close minded fuck with sour grapes.\n\n>I love when Bitcoin nerds try and shit on Fiat currency by pointing out how it’s been used for corruption as if it isn’t the only option to pay people.\n\n>If Bitcoin was the only currency you’d see the exact same amount of corruption in Bitcoin as you do Fiat. And it wouldn’t be reported on because Bitcoin is easier to both move and wash/tumble. \n\n>It boggles my mind when idiots use Fiat as a bad example when it’s quite literally the only example. It’s like saying planes are bad because Al Queda crashed them into the world trade centre, ignoring the fact that planes were the only thing that could be crashed into them.", "This is aaaaages old.\n\nMan should just have done cold storage properly, my seed is stamped on 3 metal plates and hidden 😂", "Ok - 2 pizzas", "That's bananas! Got a link or source I could see that?\n\nI saw some videos about data recovery on Linus Tech Tips, and they talked about rebuiling drives using parts from identical model drives, so that's why I mentioned that :)", "Digging for gold is a disaster for the environment, and that's usually in undisturbed places and not a landfill.", "Yeah, airpods are a dubious idea at best, I don't know what sort of quality the more expensive/originals provide, but the knock-offs are ass compared to any comparably priced wired phones, and can so easily get lost, dropped down a grating etc. BUT the huge advantage is you can sleep on your side with them in your ears and thus lull yourself to sleep to whatever your favourite interesting-but-strangely-soporific YouTube channel is (Isaac Arthur for me, and any number of other physics and cosmology channels - if subliminal learning was really a thing I would've come up with a Unified Theory of Everything by now).\n\nYou just can't do that with most wired headphones/earphones.", "poor guys", "I think that’s how the Mormons got started", "Old skool is the best skool", "Right, it would have been really nice. But, if you fucked up and missed out on $1000, you feel bad about it, but you get over it fast enough. If you threw away millions of dollars, literally life-changing money, that's gonna stick with you for a bit longer. \n\nSo thinking of it as the former and not the latter is a healthier way to think about it.", "He is supposed to be an IT consultant. He should know about CIA (Confidentiality, Integrity and Availability) ie Availability = redundancy of data\n\nI held a few bitcoins. I shared them across multiple encrypted USB keys and stored them (highly encrypted) in three physical locations and in the cloud in storage that Amazon claims has 9 9's of recovery.\n\nIf ever his CV came across my desk it would go straight in the bin.", "it's not about the size of the sell off it's the fact that it's coming from that specific wallet, people would immediately notice and also start selling out of fear the wallet will be dumping a more substantial amount in the future", "Russ Hanneman?", "Methinks that's the joke.", "most ponzi schemes don't follow the rules, so you're at least correct there.", "Sounds like the timeline is that he threw it away when it was already worth about a million, so even if he had sold it instead of tossing the drive he would've made a ton of money", "Oh they finally let him do it ? Would have been easier a couple years ago when he first asked for permission and was told no , now he’s really going to need to search… soggy debris ridden hard drives are so fun to recover", "I genuinely hope he goes broke trying to find it and never succeeds.", "Agreed", "old story\n\ni still have the laptop i used to mine bitcoin back when it was $11/coin\n\nI have 1.5 coins.... somewhere. probably not. probably someone found the wallet and skimmed it. dunno. cant figure it out. i used very high security passwords, long string of numbers and symbols and letters so i can't just log in. i used to have them written down but they are long gone\n\nsometimes we just gotta let this shit go", ">\tTwo other hard drives aboard the Columbia were so severely damaged that it was impossible to extract any usable data, he added.\n\nSo they got really lucky with one of the drives and even explain that for some reason that drive had much higher fault protection and durability than similar drives made today. \n\nWe are also talking about a consumer level laptop hard drive and not a high end drive that NASA would use. \n\nAlso, 8 years in a landfill. 8. Fucking. Years.", "I have mine in a case with a clip that I attach to my pants AND a Bluetooth finder. (Somehow i still lost a pair of airbuds.)", "Bitcoin hidden out in the great oceanic garbage patch. You have to collect plastic waste to find it.", "lmfaoooo", "Yeah, it's been sitting in a landfill for 5 years, that drive is probably so rusted and just overall ruined. Sure, data recovery can be impressive, but this guy's going to waste his life on this thing just to be disappointed.", "you'll make less but live an happier life.", "The key is on the hard drive, I see. Poor guy.", "oh no..", ">you can't trace it\n\nhow the fuck are you using this guy as a source?", "it's not.", "Whoopsie daisy", "I mined Bitcoin and it crashed my drive..not sure if I set it up right. I know my computer wouldn't turn on after a few weeks", "This news story is 8 years old by now. \nAlso, ... Edit: i can't math", ">I reformatted a hard drive with a few dozen coins on it in 2010. Oops.\n\nThanks, you've cheered me up a bit.", "If he had his seed, he could just retrieve the wallet, no?", "BREAKING NEWS: president shot and killed\n\n(This evening during a play called “our american cousin”, president Abraham Lincoln was shot in the head by an unknown assailant. Authorities are on the hunt for a limping white male that speaks Latin with a southern drawl.)", "You wouldn't be able to sell it very fast.", "This is just false. The first Bitcoin transaction was a man who paid 10,000 of them for two pizzas. \n\nI could easily see someone intentionally tossing out a drive with $20 worth of crypto if they had forgotten about them or thought it would be too much trouble to get their money out of them.", "Little does he know some kid found it already, wiped it, and now uses it to store his personal sonic harem fanfictions.", "I swear I remember hearing it almost 10 years ago too. I had the chance to buy bitcoin for £50 and refused....", "Better start digging that data out of the aether.", "Cant believe i had to scroll so far down to find this", "If you still have it....it's possible the info could be retrieved.", "Brendan Fraser", "Or the city council has bodies buried, start a rumor on the internet, get some hysterical women to advance it. Get everyone worked up in the town that the reason is they are hiding something. Then call them Republicans and that they are evil.", "I found the article I was thinking of, the guy used an IronKey drive which can apparently do exactly that. So if this guy used one of those he might be screwed.\n\nhttps://www.techradar.com/news/man-has-two-attempts-left-to-unlock-bitcoin-wallet-worth-dollar270-million", "I found the article I was thinking of, the guy used an IronKey drive which can apparently do exactly that. So if this guy used one of those he might be screwed.\n\nhttps://www.techradar.com/news/man-has-two-attempts-left-to-unlock-bitcoin-wallet-worth-dollar270-million", "Maybe he forgot about it until after he had already throw it away, but knew it was that hard drive", "\n\nThe probability is high that he knew about encryption.\n\nRelax a bit. I work in IT too and I knew about bitlocker and bitcoin back then.", "I wonder about that sometimes. If access to gmail went down for everyone, how quickly would society collapse?\n\nJoking aside, I'm sure a lot of companies use gmail and would basically have to shut down until it came back up. If it did.", "I had a Bitcoin account years ago that had part of coin on it. From when I used buy weed seeds online from overseas and you can only buy them with Bitcoin because the credit card companies stopped doing business with them. Wish I would’ve kept my password.", "That's the thing. I'm sure if he offered £70M in hard cash the council would sell him the entire dump and just go make another one elsewhere. Hell, if he actually had the cash on hand they'd probably sell it him for a tenth of that.\n\nIt's the speculative nature of the endeavour that will mean it'll never happen.\n\n---\n\nHe'd be better off costing out a business plan to buy the site and sort through the waste then approach investors offering 1000% return if the drive is found and bitcoins recovered.\n\nOnce he's raised say £10M he can buy the site (or even just the portion of it where that year's waste is buried) and have millions left to sort through the rubbish and re-encapsulate it once it's been run through a conveyor & metal detector back into a heap. If & when the HDD is found he'd give £100M to his investors and get to keep the rest.\n\nAnd if he can't find enough investors willing to take the punt for a 1000% return he could up that to 1500, 2000 ...2500% and would still make out like a bandit if the drive was ever found. His investors would make out better, but then again they're the ones shouldering all the risk so that's fair.\n\n---\n\nThe trouble with any of that is I don't think he can prove he owned that amount of bitcoin at any point, let alone prove that he threw them away. If he could then he might just be able convince some folks to put some of their money where his mouth is.", "Yeah, so a physical wallet like this can limit the number of attempts. As long as it's just software though, you can keep running it in a vm/bypass it until you crack it\n\nI feel for that guy. I don't know if I could live with that kind of pressure lol", "Ay. Lost them too.", "Nobody just throws away a billion dollars", "How can bitcoins be “contained” on a hard drive?", "Yeah… nobody does that. Somebody would have to be a pretty big fool to do that…", "I hope it’s in his jeans pocket he wore last.", "Drives never had glass in them.", "That's just their excuse. They don't want to bother checking that he's doing things safely or in a way that could casue them blowback.", "Glass was never used for drives..", "Daaaaaayum! In my case the only good thing I got from the Indigo was the monitor, wich at the time was like 24 inches, maybe bigger, in a time where the standard was still like 14\".\n\n\n Come think about it, this might have happened earlier, maybe in 2000-2002, cause I ended up donating the monitor to a disabled guy who benefited a lot from the screen size.", "Plus the heat from the landfill would cause the drive to expand allowing elements to get in.", "Hahahahahahaha", "Most stressed out motherfucker", "I have read another more in-depth article on the matter, and the guy was actually well aware of the potential of Bitcoin and was indeed holding his, only recently cashing out $175K to help him buy an apartment.", "So you're saying I should buy right now?", "I’m sure by now that drive is well toast. From water ingress to crushing forces and abuses by big heavy machinery that compacts and tears up the trash. not to mention a lot of drives I have seen the platters are like glass and simply shatter when crushed. So the odds for this guy are extremely slim both on chances of getting approval and then doing data recovery on every hard drive they find. Which most would be too far gone to save.", "Can't wait to see this post again in a few months!", "350 m&m’s?!", "Bitcoin is actual tangible data? I thought it was a value representation. I didn't know it was actual data.", "A guy I know mine claims to own a portable flash drive with a few dozen coins on it from way back in the early days. He says he was paranoid about security then so he encrypted it with a super hard password on it. Which he then forgot", "Oh, I agree that the drive is likely to have been subject to some pretty harsh stuff. \nThat article also noted that the circuits were toast, all plastic melted, seals were burned out, dirt and such were able to get into the casing, heads were bent and touching the platters, etc., and they still managed to get 99% of the data, after reassembling the platters on new hardware in the clean room, and some trial and error with firmware. \nAnd that was in 2008. \n\n\nThere are certainly many scenarios for this drive where recovery is a no go. \nHowever, there are probably nearly as many leaning in the recovery is possible direction. \nAt $350 million, it's probably worth a try.", "> Bitcoin would have hit 700 bucks and he would have sold ages ago thinking he hit the top like everyone else.\n\nBINGO. \n\n>The only people that hodl'd this long are people who are never selling and people who lost access to their coins forcing them to hold.\n\nYea. People like me who want to trade it and use it not exchange it for fiat.", "If you display it with proper axis, you can still see the covid blip but have a much more honest view.", "The answer is always yes.", "Reminds me of a smaller gaming tournament many years ago. The prizes were something like 500 for 1st place, 250 2nd, 150 3rd, and the others in the top 10 got 25 bitcoins as a \"consolation prize\".\n\nThose 25 bitcoins would be worth just over 1 million as of writing this.\n\nSometimes the question is asked \"if you were sent back in time and lived through all of history until now, what would you do?\" and all that. Well, I bet most people would put \"start mining bitcoin the MOMENT it releases\" at the top of their list. :P\n\nHeck I'm kind of sad I didn't at least try mining some back when it just started. But then again, back then it seemed like \"some weird niche that won't amount to much in 5 years\".", "Eh, everyone's got their woulda / coulda / shoulda story with Bitcoin.\n\n\nYou live long enough you get a pile of 'em. If you put 500 bucks into Tesla stock when it was new that's around 100 shares. If you just sat on that, it's now 500 shares valued at a half million dollars. Tons of people had spare computers they coulda set up as bitcoin miners when it was new- myself included- and if they'd just taken the risk they'd be millionaires today. \n\n\nOn the one hand it belies the other* piece of investing advice people tend to give- always throw some lunch money at new ideas you like, never shy away from participating in a new idea for fear of looking silly- but in the first place it teaches you a lesson about not doing things you'll regret later on. \n\n\nFor me and my situation? There was zero cost or risk associated with taking my old computer and setting it up as a bitcoin miner. I was living in a college dorm- I wasn't even paying for internet or electricity. \n\n\n\nOf course this is also why people who work in tech are pack rats. And why they tend to destroy data before they trash it. You never know when you might end up needing that hard drive. And on the off chance you need it later you want to cover your tracks to make sure it's just dead.", " Ethereum currently is almost as slow, volatile and not reversible. But they are both programmable money, etherem more programmable than bitcoin. The lightning network solves all of the issues you mentioned except for volatility. \n\nBut I'm more inclined to believe bitcoin has gone in the store of value direction, a hedge agaians inflation. That's what the county seems to think. If that's the case then it's competition is gold and real estate, both limited resources just like bitcoin", "I got my portfolio being run on Coinbase. Glad I haven’t self governed like this guy. I probably would of made the same mistake but probably not...", "Dump would have a pretty good idea where it is. Probably dug it up for themselves already.", "ETH should easily break $4.5k by Xmas and it's $3.8k right now? Seems like a fast and easy return that is nearly guaranteed.", "Dude my shih tsu did the exact same thing! Nabbed one of the airpod pro buds that fell out of my ear during a nap. Luckily it still worked when he spit it out. Hope you were that lucky.", "The only way they’ll take the risk is if some super wealthy person gambles on this and gives a massive deposit to the city, but it’s probably too high risk.", "My ex once lost her glasses in the lake. She freaked out because they were super expensive and her parents were gonna \"kill\" her.\n\nAfter 2 hours I actually found them..", "Upvote for the edit, LOL", "That’s too funny. Based on the comments I’ve gotten, this is definitely a Shih Tzu trait lol. I was lucky… so far the AirPod still works!", "Imagine being an IT guy and not properly sanitizing and/or destroying your drive before throwing it away\n\nibSomeOneComesInHereAndSaysYouCanReadZeroedOutPlatterShards", "So does it just sit in limbo or can it somehow be recycled into the bitcoin supply? Sorry I’m not very versed here.", "Lost one of mine one night inside my house. Gave up looking. Next day decided to turn the music on. My trash can was playing Rock and Roll.....", "Just let the man dig.", "They have some crazy ones https://youtu.be/IHQr0HCIN2w\n\nAnd plain silly https://youtu.be/5-uIwpo0dCU", "Proceeds to vomit daily on the hour.", "As I suggested in the previous comment, that person is moronically stupid.", "I had to check to make sure it wasn't the onion.\n\n/r/nottheonion", "There's technically a possibility I have, from a while ago, some crypto that's probably worth a decent amount now.\n\nThing is, I don't know how to access it for multiple reasons due to it being so long ago and I most likely do not have a means of accessing the computer/accounts to find it.\n\nThe key here is to just let it fucking go. It is so easy to do the math and say \"this will be worth the time looking.\". The reality is this kind of thing will literally turn you into the kind of person to set up a kids rehabilitation camp in the desert to look for the Yelnats fortune. You've gotta let go or it holds onto you.", "3 cents times 6500 is still not something I'd throw in the bin", "I don't even think that would work, because... well, it's a spinning-disk hard drive that's been sitting in a landfill for nearly a decade. Unless he sealed it in an airtight plastic bag, that thing is probably corroded and/or waterlogged, and there's a very good chance that it's just crunched under some furniture.\n\nAlso, I know the city probably isn't strictly liable for things that happen, but it wouldn't be hard to spin this into a bad headline if they agreed to it. \"Random man pays city council for the right to dig through your trash and gather data from your discarded hard drives\" isn't a really good look for the people who approved it.", "The platters themselves are hermetically sealed within the drive. HDD bodies are actually pretty sturdy.\n\nBut yeah, there's a near 100% chance that the platters would need removing and transplanting into a donor drive (in a clean-room environment). There are hundreds of companies who specialise in just that.\n\n---\n\nYou do make a very good point in your second paragraph though.", "I remember the bitcoin tip bots that used to make their rounds around reddit. Back when bitcoin was worth $100-500 each, you'd get people giving bitcoin tips instead of awards.\n\n\"You made me laugh, here's .01 BTC!\" \"I liked your content, here's .05 BTC!\" and so on.\n\nCrazy to think that those little things are probably worth hundreds or thousands of dollars now, and a huge majority of them were probably just never collected.", "Jesus are you still yapping. You're like a little puppy yip yip yip", "Literally a scene in Silicon Valley\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygZ10y_R1qQ", "Yip yip yip\n\nJesus", "Yeah, it's just stuck there unless someone knows the key. Some people have estimated 1 in 5 bitcoins are permanently lost.", "Fictitious item is created. Value is placed on item. No more of item is created. Value of item goes up on paper. If anyone tried to liquidate the entirety of that value, it would not equal the value on paper, because the value is based on people holding on to it. This creates a bubble of imaginary wealth that collapses if too many people try to liquidate. The bubble of this imaginary wealth puts inflationary pressure on the rest of the market, even more so since the good can be used as a currency in itself. This is the absolute simplest I could describe it. \n\nTL;DR: Cryptocurrency is not magically immune from normal economic phenomena", "My roommate threw away park place from that McDonalds monopoly game and got boardwalk the next week back when the reward was 1mil.", "So he would have been ok if he had owned these through a digital wallet service like coinbase I guess? The whole situation seems batshit.", "Ok, potentially stupid question but:\n\nIsn’t there some sort of record or something NOT tied to the hard drive? Like in an email or website registration or something? How could it ONLY be in the hard drive?", "You're a traveler type? If so I'd like to hear more.", "Why worse?", "They are different terms though. Gypsies are Romani, Irish Traveler (Pavee) are Irish, both are travelers/itinerant.", "More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers", "bItCoIn Is ThE fUtUrE", "huh - somebody didn't like that popularity... \"This video isn't available anymore\"", "Don't be an ass.", "This is why I keep all of my bitcoin in my pocket.", "Bit thrown. How does that inflate/deflate the value of, for instance, the USD?\n\nSurely unless more USD are created in order to buy that crypto, it simply grows or decreases in value relative to crypto in exactly the same way it does to any other currency?", "Honestly this must be the worst. Everyone has regrets in life but most can say what's done is done, onwards and upwards etc. But this guy knows that hard disk is definitely still out there somewhere. It would be easier for him if the council dug it up and destroyed it. Fuck. I'd be waking up every night hatching new harebrained schemes to get it back.", "So it seems to me that you don’t understand what inflation is or how it works. Printing more USD is not the sole cause of inflation. There are many factors in the economy that cause inflation. You seem to be of the mind that cryptocurrency in general is completely immune to inflation and somehow exerts no forces on the rest of the economy. This is just completely delusional. I think it’s more reasonable to demand an explanation for how cryptocurrency could possibly be immune from inflation and totally separate from the rest of the economy.", "There's a long article about this in this week's New Yorker. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/12/13/half-a-billion-in-bitcoin-lost-in-the-dump", "No, I'm perfectly aware that crypto can experience inflation or deflation. But you seemed to be saying that crypto causes other currencies, such as the dollar, to experience inflation, and I am asking how it does that.", "The exact same way any other good and service puts inflationary pressure on the economy. Crypto is not the economic philosophers stone. If you continue to be so obtuse I’m going to have to charge you a tuition fee.", "Yeah but so many what-ifs. \n\nThis article has more of the historical details: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/27/hard-drive-bitcoin-landfill-site\n\nDrive was disposed of a spinning laptop hard drive approximately around 20 June and 10 August of 2013. He didn't discover his mishap until Friday, November 23, 2013. The drive was removed from Dell XPS N1710 ( Possibly a misquote of a Dell M1710? ) , and was removed from the machine in 2013, do to a spill. The replacement drive for this system is a 2.5\" 500gb 7200 RPM drive. I would guess a HGST. The OS originally shipped with Windows Vista and Windows XP, so we can assume that he was using NTFS, without encryption. Assuming 4KB cluster size.\n\nIf someone else had the drive and had re-used it, the data could have been written over. The file would have fit in any open lost on the disk, not necessarly in relation to where the bitcoin mining application was located. \n\nThe surviablility of these hard drives just from general use was not that the best. I can't imagine a bare drive being tossed around in a garbage truck and pushed in the dump being in the best of condition.", "I was making the point for anyone reading that doesn’t understand how Bitcoin works. I think the distinction is important.", "https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/address/1FeexV6bAHb8ybZjqQMjJrcCrHGW9sb6uF", "Well, that's disappointing. I was expecting you to come out with something a bit more impressive than \"money can be exchanged for goods and services\".", "It really is that simple. If you don’t understand how goods and services can drive inflation in the economy, then I am unable to explain to you how cryptocurrency isn’t magically separate from the rest of the economy. The point of my original comment is that crypto is a pointless waste of economic pressure that damages the environment in the process.", "I don't know what this means lol or what this has to do with my comment", "I mean, the way you phrased it in your original comment it made it sound like they had a specifically inflationary effect beyond that of stuff like stock or property speculation. Which is why I asked, and why I have been so persistent - I was expecting something bigger.", "What exactly did I say that implied such an assumption?", "TBH when people say insufferable on the internet, I assume they're neckbeards, so I'm gonna assume this also affects your estimation of what counts as a loser. But I also find on reddit that I keep surprisingly getting into it with people claim to be leftist but just turn out to be the cringiest, worst timeline neckbeardy form of leftist, so are you that or just a boilerplate libertarian conservative (in which case \"cringiest, worst timeline neckbeard\" is redundant)?", "Now that’s smart!", "Yes currencies are continuously printed and old copies removed from circulation.", "Oil and coal power offers nothing over clean energy. If we stopped all subsidies for them, they would naturally dry up as clean power at this point is just as affordable of an investment.", "Energy isn't finite. Focusing on crypto is stupid when making crypto and literally all other power related environmental impacts not use dirty power is just as easy to change.", "And it could have been done on wind or solar for cheaper if the government subsidies weren't artificially propped up. That statement had context, literally right above it in the former replies.", ">inventing currencies that do nothing but drive up inflation and make things worse for the environment and poor people\n\nI felt that the implication was that crypto drives inflation in a manner or to an extent unlike other intangible goods, which I had not heard before. Perhaps even in a manner that would hit harder than, say, stock speculation.", "I really don’t understand DAOs. Aren’t they just corporations with a different name and no jurisdiction? The only benefit of them I can see is disrupting the legal market for setting up new corporate entities. They’re not even limited liability, and would probably be considered a partnership at law (meaning joint and several personal liability for all owners), which is pretty much a nightmare situation. They just seem like a big tax avoidance scheme to me.", "Bit thrown. How did you get “crypto is an inexplicable magical force that drives inflation more than anything ever seen before” from that instead of “crypto serves no real purpose and therefore the only thing it does is contribute to inflation and environmental collapse”?", "Everyone who made money did so at the expense of someone else. The stock market is zero sum outside of dividend issuances.", "That complaining about crypto hurting the environment is a little silly when its environmental impact is microscopic compared to those 100 corporations - if you want to complain about something harming the environment, you should probably pick something more harmful than crypto.", "This guy absolutely just stole it and said he threw it out.", "Yes print more worthless paper to make it even more worthless. Genius!", "Okay. Fun story time as something very similar happened to me. \n\nI ended up burning my 3DS because I knocked it's case off my nightstand into the trashcan. Never noticed it and that trashbag was then burned. \n\nCan't remember what eventually made be check the freaking burrner barrel for my lost DS, but there it was. Burnt to a crisp. \n\nWas such shitty luck.\n\nNow I don't have a trashcan next to my nightstand.", "Life changing, but not necessarily for the better. A Ferrarri is not intrinsically better than a Lexus. A Yacht is not intrinsically better than a road trip.", "All that from the word insufferable?", "… i use google to sign into a bunch of other sites, too. this is a big deal, how am I only now hearing this?", "Because that's true of an awful lot of things. And I had never seen the inflation argument before. So I assumed that the inflationary impact of crypto was on the same level as its environmental impact, which is quite serious, otherwise why bother mentioning it if it's at roughly the same level as any other speculative commodity like beanie babies or 90s comics?", "He probably lost the private key used to access bitcoins, so apparently he didn't make any backups", "Yeah np", "Because it serves literally no other purpose, and it is entirely intangible. Like any good, it still affects market forces, but that is literally all it does. With anything else, you can get some other value, but since crypto has no other value, it is literally only a force for inflation and environmental degradation. This is not meant to imply that these effects are somehow equal to each other. It is meant to imply that crypto literally serves no other purpose.", "Ok were back to step 1 here. Those 100 corporations aren't alone responsible for it, everyone is.", "when I was young, circa ‘05, my dad passed away… of all the things of his lost over the years his hotmail account is one of the most painful to think about. it was comforting to see a side of him I never could have seen as his kid. now all I have to look back on are a few public usenet posts of him trolling yankees fans when the red sox won the world series—which, ironically, i could only find thanks to google’s usenet archives", "I have never bought into a DAO... they are an early nebluous concept, but at a high level, my understanding of a DAO is this. When I registered an LLC, I had to declare who the President is, who the Treasurer is, and who the Secretary is. Those titles have legal responsibilities. At the core of an LLC are people. At the edges are usually more people, and sometimes computers. It also only exists in a particular legal jurisdiction. They have hiearchies which make decisions.\n\nDAO's are just smart contracts. That means at the core of a DAO is a computer. At the edges of a DAO are people (today), but they can be bots too. They exist on the chain, which is natively global.\n\nDAO's can own digital resources on the blockchain in a native way. DAO's can interact with other smart contracts, DAO's can create other DAO's. It's code. No people necessary.\n\nDigital Assets (specifically via NFT's) can link real world resources to the blockchain. Imagine a self driving truck. You could in theory mint an NFT that gives the owner of that NFT the ability to control the truck. A DAO could own that NFT. A DAO could control that self-driving truck. \n\nThat DAO could be owned by a bunch of wallets that no person directly manages. AI could own that DAO. A DAO could control a 3D printer. A DAO could control a warehouse robot. A DAO could list and sell a product. A DAO could design a product. DAO's can have people contributors, and they can have AI contributors.\n\nAll of this stuff COULD happen in corporations. But fundumentally corporations have people in the middle, and are designed to do business with people, and they take large margins to support that people infrastrcture. DAO's are designed for computers to do business with computers, and they have thin margins. It's accelerates the rate of doing business by making doing business easy and cheap.\n\nHonestly, DAO's make me super excited, and crazy fearful of the future. One of the things about the blockchain is you can't turn it off. The decentralized nature of the blockchain gives DAO's a particular robustiness that a Corporation doesn't have. AI interacting with blockchains has an amazing amount of potential. But there's no kill switch. You can't unplug it.", "Fair enough - just a misunderstanding then, NBD", "A corporation could still do all of those things, though. Still own AIs that would control those resources autonomously. If anything, you would want an LLC to own your DAO to protect you from liability should, for example, that self-driving car hit someone and seriously injure them. \n\nAIs may also be able to make decisions, but at the end of the day they’re property and not legal persons. Someone owns that AI.", "They most certainly do/did. Maybe not the particular hard drive in question, but many others still use glass.\n\n> Platters are typically made using an aluminium, glass or ceramic substrate. As of 2015, laptop hard drive platters are made from glass while aluminum platters are often found in desktop computers.\n\n> In 1990, Toshiba released the MK1122FC, the first hard drive to use a glass substrate, replacing the aluminium alloys used in earlier hard drives. It was originally designed for laptops, for which the greater shock resistance of glass substrates are more suitable.[3] Around 2000, other hard drive manufacturers started transitioning from aluminum to glass platters because glass platters have several advantages over aluminum platters.[4][5][6][7]\n\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_platter", "[Hard disk drive platter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_platter) \n \n >A hard disk drive platter (or disk) is the circular disk on which magnetic data is stored in a hard disk drive. The rigid nature of the platters in a hard drive is what gives them their name (as opposed to the flexible materials which are used to make floppy disks). Hard drives typically have several platters which are mounted on the same spindle. A platter can store information on both sides, requiring two heads per platter.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "No, 100% for the better. Having enough money to not have to work if you don't want to, being able to buy a house if you don't have one, and either way, not worry about paying it off, having enough to not have to worry that a health issue will ruin your life, have enough that you can easily travel and afford whatever hobbies you want, etc. is absolutely life-changing for the better.\n\nJust because you have all the money you need, doesn't immediately mean the only things it can do which many people couldn't already do is buy a Lexus or a Yacht.\n\nAlso, side-note, you don't have to be rich to buy a Lexus. You can just be dumb. Case in point. My mom is probably the worst person I know with money. She boomered her way into having a house her entire adult life by having it handed to her, and never actually working more than a menial job her whole life. She has since taken out more mortgages on the house than I probably even know of. She has gotten into over $20,000 in credit card debit several times, never once because of an unavoidable situation, every single time because she declares she \"deserves\" things she can't afford and buying them on credit. Every time, she finally manages to pay off the debt and declares she will never do that again. And then a few years later, she finally admits to me that she's right back in the same position.\n\nA few years back, she celebrated that she hit the age where she can collect full social security benefits while still working (since despite hitting that point, she is in no position to retire). To celebrate this, did she pay off her credit card debt? Did she start trying to aggressively save money to hope to be able to stop working before her health eventually forces her to? No of course not. She bought a Lexus. Because, \"I deserve it.\"", "If platter in perfect working condition, then it’s much cheaper to build into a similar drive and recover easily. But if that thing worth $350 mil. Are you sure they want to spin it up to 7800 rpm? Especially buried in the trash for over 10 years. \n\nNo I don’t have a source. It’s something I learned long ago from IT guys on bleeding edge data recovery technique.", "Think I said that in my post. Yes an LLC COULD do all this stuff. But at the end of the day, a DAO can do it too. One of the main things a DAO has going for it, is that it is a DAO. If a DAO needs to purchase something, and a traditional Corp and a DAO both offer it. The DAO will probably prefer to do business with the DAO. Of course a Corp could hollow itself out, and put a DAO in it's place... and that's probably what will happen to places that need to compete against them. The places that stay people focused will probably lose.\n\nUsing an LLC to protect a DAO makes sense if that DAO has any linked physical assets. I think there's some work going on in that space. Kind of interesting stuff.", "It will indeed be interesting to see what happens as the space matures. My experience with crypto has been that most of those with a sophisticated understanding of the space don’t have a working understanding of the business world and vice versa. There will absolutely be a reckoning once tax authorities figure out how to track down and tax these earnings, or DAOs start getting into legal trouble with business disputes or liability from physical assets. \n\nUltimately, what I think you will invariably see are corporations holding portfolios of DAOs. The former provide legal and tax advantages in meatspace, while the DAOs provide logistical benefits in the digital space.", "Get your own jokes puppy", "Okay then, so let's use that logic (despite the fact these multi-trillion dollar companies absolutely have the resources to invest in renewable energy so they should solely be held accountable for their refusal to do so, plus their lobbying and manipulation of governments to ensure they can continue to pollute the earth for profit with no repercussions).\n\nIf everyone shares responsibility for those 70% of emissions, that doesn't change the fact that does crypto contributes less than 1%.\n\nThere's literally no rational, logical, or remotely intelligent reason to argue that \"crypto harms the environment and should be stopped\" when COAL exists. Coal is responsible for nearly 50% of emissions. Argue about replacing coal with something more environmentally friendly instead.", "Clearly people on this thread don’t fuck.", "Correct. If the key had been handled by someone like coinbase he'd be fine. If he had handled the key in any other way he'd be fine. But once it's gone, it's gone.", "I'm 99% sure Park Place was the rare one.", "Is there an echo in here", "Think for yourself Doggy", "It's not important. Those coins are lost and unrecoverable without the wallet key. \n\nSaying \"I lost the coins on the hard drive\" == \"I lost the key and can't access the coins\". \n\nNo one can recover the coins without the hard drive. They're gone. You're just talking to try to sound smart.", "Oopsie! My husband mentioned about 7-8 months ago that he bought some bitcoin last year.. 2020 but he doesn’t remember where he put it. So I remind him every month that he better start searching. LOL!", "They won't get the full amount unless they recover something, but they probably already got a consulting fee.", "so that wealth is essentially gone and buried forever in the blockchain, unclaimable by anybody? I guess that's like someone burying a bunch of cash and either forgetting where it's buried and/or it spoils and disintegrates. Is 7500 bitcoin such a relatively small figure that it being missing from circulation would have any effect at all on the value of the rest of them?This whole thing", "I've no idea how much the process changed from when I was manufacturing in the early 2000's to now for the platter drives. Using a glass based substrate wouldn't have shocked me so I took the previous posters comment at face value.\n\nFor anyone that \"does wonder how\" I'll provide the process:\n\nCut out donuts from aluminum, grind it to specific thickness, run it through chemical bathes to clean/prep it, (Forget the layer between the aluminum and nickel), electrolysis nickel plate it, bake it in an oven, polish it, sputter on magnetics.", "Yes to all of that. Even if it were a larger amount so long as it doesn't move it doesn't affect the price. There are Satoshi's coins out there, about 1/21m coins that will ever exist. They don't matter for price because they essentially don't exist.", ">\n).\n>\n>If everyone shares responsibility for those 70% of emissions, that doesn't change the fact that does crypto contributes less than 1%.\n\nRe read my comment, I said I wasn't talking about crypto. Just how that stat is super misleading", "That could be brute-forced unless it's unusually long. He should ask a data recovery company for advice.", "Oh. TIL. Thanks", "> No one can recover the coins without the hard drive.\n\nFor someone that happened to have their seed phrase written down somewhere, they can absolutely recover their coins without the wallet (hard drive). That's my point.", "I despise dogs and people who behave like eager little attention seeking puppies", "Gypsys and travellers are a real thing.\n\n\"Irish traveller type\" is just the usual UK ignorance that gypsys are all Irish", "I had one of those and if I recall correctly it reverted back to the donor after a set time.", "Yes I'm an Irish traveler. What would you like to know?", ">Oil and coal power offers nothing over clean energy. If we stopped all subsidies for them, they would naturally dry up as clean power at this point is just as affordable of an investment.\n\nYou said \"oil is worth zero\". I agree with the above point but saying oil is worthless is a distorted, and incorrect, perspective.", "I remember this from back in 2014-2015. He is still going wow", "You just revealed WAY more about yourself than me dude. I wasn't talking about ladies, but you went right there...", "It's a crazy snapshot in time, isn't it? You get to see kind of the inner workings of someone's mind/personality if you look at their online content. It's really interesting to see myself from a decade ago and where I was at and what I was working on and who I was hanging out or working with, etc. It's an intimate look at myself at a moment in time plainly in text right there, unaltered by my changed perceptions that I may have of situations over time, remembering things different than they actually were.\n\nI actually closely guard my reddit account because it's anonymous and I want to keep it that way. It's an outlet for me where I can just say whatever without having to worry about offending anyone. I mean, I try to have decent internet etiquette but you know what I mean...I might have a hot take on an issue that some people I know might find offensive and that I would be more diplomatic about or sidestep altogether IRL. \n\nAnyway I totally just barfed a wall of text, I don't know...I find human beings and how they interact with the internet to be a really fascinating sociological topic.", "Make your own comments", "Worthless paper..\n\nCrytobros are something else man", "yeah i wanted to start collecting random vhs tapes from the thrift store but i am also worried to see something disturbing so i havent decided yet", "Gone like a needle in a 2ton hay stack.", "Hi, I'm from Old Hard Drives R Us. Would you be willing to sell one of them?", "Thank this guy for legitimately burning the coins and making the value of bitcoin going up.", "IT/Software dev doesn't pay half in the UK what it does in the States. This bloke doesn't have a maid.", "If anyone finds my old dell from 2012, it has 2 btc on it. \n\nGood luck.", "2013 it got thrown away. What kind of condition would that thing be in a landfill? You got a better chance of finding treasure in that hole on Oak Island.", "I think the worst you'd find there is someone's parents awkwardly boning on a waterbed, probably pretty safe tbh", "I kicked the wire while my earbuds were charging. That thing whipped out and shot those earbuds like bullets out into my dark room. I never found one of the ear buds. Had to shell over 200 bucks to Apple for another set.", "It's a Ponzi scheme, not a pyramid scheme.", "And without being able to see the future, in most cases not selling the bitcoin was a horrible idea and huge gamble.", "I used mine to by drugs on the dark web lmao.", "I didn't say \"oil is worth zero\", I said;\n\n> I don't get the attention crytpo gets for it's environmental impact. Why does it feel like people rank crypto higher than big oil on their list of environmental concerns? Crypto doesn't have to be bad for the environment.\n\nTo which someone replied\n\n> Because oil has use as energy,...\n\nAnd then I said\n\n> Oil has zero use, clean energy is just as if not more attainable, oil is being artificially propped up by corrupt governments via subsidies.\n\n\nI'm not sure how you missed that context", "The guy who responded to you is just confidently wrong, glass was and is widely used in hard drives.\n\nMaybe not in this particular drive, but glass platters are definitely a thing.\n\n> Platters are typically made using an aluminium, glass or ceramic substrate. As of 2015, laptop hard drive platters are made from glass while aluminum platters are often found in desktop computers.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_platter", "You cant make plastic with... wind.\n\nI dont think you understand what \"oil\" is or is used for... https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/use-of-oil.php\n\nLess than 1% of oil is used for electricity. The majority is transport and production.", "He can't remember he was too f***** up", "The comment was contextual, I obviously meant as a power source. What the everloving fuck does plastic have to do with the damage of crypto? Or did you somehow miss the entire thread up to my comment? Are you dense?", "Eat more fibre", "And the assumption that we are all thieves", "Now they don't \n\nSatoshi his coins are spread out over 20 000 addresses all containing 50 BTC on them.", "Get your own jokes", "You can't quit me can you. It's my charisma. I speak. You copy.", "Moving the goalposts. The original crypto bro pro move.\n\nWhats next? BaNKS UsE MAnY PoWER ToO!", "What the fuck are you talking about with moving goal posts? You intentionally misconstrued my comment. Me correcting your stupid mistake is not moving goalposts.", "So that you have it, to restore, in case you lose access to Metamask... The electronic store of your private keys...", "I swear I heard this story like 5 years ago when bitcoin started exploding", "The real issue isn't physical trauma to the drive, but moisture getting into the platters and corroding the surface of the magnetic film. If he tossed the drive in 2013, that drive is almost certainly toast unless someone else fished it out long ago.", "It's technically possible, but unlikely, depending on how much you've used the drive since formatting it. You could pull some partial sectors probably, but getting contiguous and complete data about your wallet would be very difficult and expensive.", "It wasn't a rumor. Official sources had confirmed it decades ago. It's just that no one bothered to dig up the landfill until recently because... why would you want to waste time and money digging up copies of E.T.?", "I'm pretty sure it's just durian fruit juice.", "Oh. Yah. \"Oil has zero use\", that was the completely wrong thing you said. You could make the same point without that hyperbolic bollocks.\n\nYou don't seem to understand - the context is clear, which is why such a bizarre comment sticks out so much.", "Again you're quoting a partial statement. Typical pedantic redditor who's only goal is to argue. Have fun.", ">Again you're quoting a partial statement. Typical pedantic redditor who's only goal is to argue. Have fun.\n\nYou can't just say these stupid things. I'm quoting that because it takes away from your point by making you look like you don't understand the value of oil.\n\nWords have meanings, you bloody idiot. You got called out for poor wording. Just take the L and move on. Typical Redditor indeed to not admit when they're wrong.\n\nImagine trying to defend such a moronic precept or use it as a point. You know what these words mean, right?", "That is embarrassing.", "If he had a seed phrase then he could recover the wallet but if the guys dumb enough to bin a hard drive with 7500 bitcoins on o doubt he wrote the seed phrase down", "I don't know what maths your doing but 7500 x 47000 is 352,500,000 that's 352million", "I lost an ear bud in a deep fryer at work a couple weeks ago. \nManaged to fish it out with a pair of tongs. \nCleaned it off and it STILL works. \nThose Tozo buds are built like tanks.", "I can wait for you to say something about reading comprehension while misusing ad hominem if you want additional testing to confirm the diagnosis. But you didn't answer the question.\n\nAlternate answer: what can I say? I love language, and I hate the neckbeard script. So naturally, I find people who have allowed their personality and vocabularies to be subsumed into the neckbeard hivemind, homogenized to the point where they no longer know any other pejorative adjective than \"insufferable\" to be...distasteful. But asking whether you are a libertarian or just fucking cringe was throwing you a bone. If you're the latter, a thesaurus and some therapy may be all you need. If you're a libertarian, you'll also need at least a 3 credit survey course on macroeconomics.\n\nSecond alternate answer: there's a decent list of single words you know you shouldn't use, and that you will be judged harshly for should you use them. You've probably mocked neckbeards yourself at some point. Why would you be shocked that the currently-in-first-place indicator of a neckbeard's stunted vocabulary/personality is on that list?\n\nThird alternate answer: ever notice that when one redditor calls another redditor insufferable, they tend to stick around anyway for the next 3-4 hours, because they have literally no one else in their lives who will tolerate their [desperate grabs for attention via negative behavior?](https://thehardtimes.net/opinion/there-are-only-two-genders-and-please-stay-and-argue-with-me-im-so-lonely/) Suddenly \"insufferable\" turns out to mean \"my date for Saturday night.\" It's a bad look. Why, assuming you know any other word and don't have a gun to your head, would you voluntarily associate yourself with people like that?", "Ouch, thanks for explaining.", "Lol this shit gets reposted every year", "sad karma farmer. leave.", "This is how politicians should earn their pay.", "I honestly skimmed and didn't see the question, glazed over once I realized it was just a long winded insult. No, I'm but a lib/conservative, I'm as left as it goes. You make too many assumptions. I called modern crypto Bros insufferable simply because they're usually libertarian douchebags trying to promote some pump and dump. \n\nSorry I used the forbidden word, never heard of someone associating a political alignment from a single word\n\nDon't bother replying with another novel as I won't read it.", "Misconstrued? \n\nOnly 1% of oil is used for power generation. You made a dumb comment about a topic you know nothing of and got reamed for it, move on. \n\nAnd maybe next time consider supporting POS rather than pushing the old \"cRyptO dOnt UsE PoweR\" rhetoric.", "> nobody is going to want to pay if it's not found.\n\nThey'd have to pay before. If a backer wanted to sponsor the dig, they would need to pay for the equipment, pay to get a permit, and so on, before they start. That's the investment. If the total cost is lower than the expected payout from the dig, then an investor with high risk appetite might want to fund the project.\n\nHowever, the city doesn't/shouldn't have a high risk appetite, and as you say, they have different priorities. So, they wouldn't want to fund the project themselves. However, if an external investor wanted to, and the city wasn't inconvenienced, or was compensated for the inconvenience up front, then I don't see why it couldn't go through.", "A blockchain doesn't have a central server to manage this. Besides, if you could block someone from their wallet by just exhausting their retries, then a lot of people would lose a lot of money fast. Unless, there is something I don't understand/know about.", "Are you okay dude?", "It was on the news few months back another guy tossed his HD and he used up 8/10 guesses on his key. If he guess 2 more times wrong, his acct will be locked for ever along with his $250 mil worth of Bitcoin.", "His encrypted memory stick, where he stored his private key, has that feature. The blockchain doesn't.", "Hey, I almost thought this was a walk through of how the stock market works🤣", "Do I have to explain hypotheticals now?", "Oh damn. He did that to himself then.", "I've left hard drives in some really shitty conditions over the last 30+ years and they're a lot tougher than they appear. I've had more of them die when they're new than when they're old...!", "I don't know why you're getting voted down. Yes, lost the wallet and did not have the seed phrase printed out. Just didn't seem important back then. Mined the coins myself on my PC.", "Back in the day, $50 for a single coin seemed like insanity. Did anyone back as far as 2010 ever predict a price as high as now?", "That's a good point. What if he is just bullshitting? It's definitely possible.", "Hi welcome to last week", "您想象力真丰富", "It's impossible to find", "It's impossible to find", "It's impossible. Pay for himself. No one will pay for him", "hahaha", "This story is old. He has no money to pay the city. His offer to pay is IF he finds the laptop and IF he can retrieve the Bitcoin. \nIt’s not like the city is just being stubborn. \n\nReally this story needs to die and be forgotten.", "now thats a story to tell at parties lol. I'm sorry my man.", "You still don't understand how this works. No matter what court order or subpoena is given, if the wallet keys are not known, the funds are inaccessible by anyone", "You'll understand eventually Bitcoin is not above the law. Peace", "Don’t think anyone has heard from him :/", "Nothing yet, I'm hoping it was all a lie but I'm doubtful", "Looks like it was a lie.", "Looks like he lied", "Sure enough", "That hard drive is fucked either way. Have you seen those big spiked wheels some of those vehicles have. Shit got smoothed. Plus the weather alone." ]	3,201	videos	Man Searching Landfill For Discarded Hard Drive Containing 7,500 Bitcoin - Currently Worth $350 MM
https://youtu.be/jQE66WA2s-A	/r/videos/comments/retx7x/all_your_base_are_belong_to_us/	[ "The OG meme of my heart. All my base are belong to you this fine day.", "Banging as fuck.", "A powerful meme from a more refined era.", "People are trying to bring this back because [xkcd](https://xkcd.com/286/) predicted the memes return for 2021", "Don't remember it going this hard, but I guess all your bass are belong to us", "[ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US](https://i.imgur.com/AHtYF17.png)\n\n^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot", "It's a meme but lets not forget that this might have been the one that blew up Photoshop battles way back in the forum days.", "Gotta wonder how many people seeing this even remember this meme coming out. Hell, there's people here who weren't even ALIVE back then.", "Best $45 game I have ever bought.", "Always has..", "AYBABTU!", "The goat", "What's the hourly wages of this mechanic!!?", "One of a few early internet relic gems to be fair...badger badger badger mushroom mushroom mushroom SNAAAAAAAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" ]	15	videos	All your base are belong to us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N74K0rfQz88	/r/videos/comments/retxgq/amazon_snowstorm_delivery/	[ "They deliver snowstorms now!?", "If there is money to be made on it, Amazon will deliver it.", "sucks they cant refuse to drive in those unsafe conditions", "they also make employees work when tornadoes are present", "how can it be legal for delivers just to dump delivery in the open like that?" ]	5	videos	Amazon snowstorm delivery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSugWMQvM9A	/r/videos/comments/reu7da/experiment_weed_effects_on_lungs/	[ "Not sure how long it takes for someone to finish a cigarette or a joint, but the over heat that we can see in the model is due to the lack of outbreaths. Maybe a setup with a tee and two sets of pumps turning on and off could help that.\n\nThe other is just the uses of cotton to mimic the alveolus. Although the cotton helps to show the material that could come with smoking, part of that is removed by the mucous and other filtering mechanisms that we have it the respiratory system. Maybe going through water would be a closer model? Not sure.\n\nGood first approach to make the model.", "This is nothing new for anyone that cleaned a pipe or bong.", "this has been done like 10-15 years ago, it was called out for not being accurate then (and this is coming from someone who hates the whole \"weed isn't bad 4 u it's natural, it fixes everything\").", "That bottle be smoking joints like snoop dawg in half baked." ]	4	videos	Experiment weed effects on lungs
https://youtu.be/HaCg4FOQH_A	/r/videos/comments/rev15b/the_panic_knot/	[ "Waiting for /r/climbing to show up and tell me how this will kill me", "This looks like some kind of modified clove hitch?", "I like it but why is it named that?", "It's cool to have a good knot that's also easy to remember. I started using the constrictor knot a year ago but since I rarely have to tie good knots I sometimes have to look it up again because Im not 100% sure what goes where.", "This is essentially an [anchor hitch](https://www.google.com/search?q=anchor+hitch&oq=anchor+hitch&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i20i263i512j0i273j0i512j0i273j0i512j0i20i263i512j0i512.3750j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8), but both the two half hitches go through the anchoring loops with this knot, whereas with the anchor hitch only the first half hitch goes through the anchoring loops.", "It's named wrong. \n\nA panic connection in rigging is something that can be released while under tension, it's mostly used for horses so if the horse panics you can release it before it does damage.\n\nThis guy is abusing the terminology for no good reason.", "Nothing about this is a clove hitch. Clove-hitch is self-tightening, self-binding, and very difficult to undo once tensioned.", "Hello this is a hitch, not a knot. \n\nThank you.\n\nEDIT: For an easy way to remember the difference, just use this simple rhyme:\n\nIf it relies on another object for its integrity, that’s a hitch, Mitch!\n\nIf it has its own integrity without another object such as a bar, stick, or another rope, that’s a knot, Bill!", "really? it looks like he ties a clove hitch on his hand and then passes it under twice.", "What if Mitch and Bill aren’t here?", "Speaking from experience tying hundreds of clove hitches a day, I am confident those aren't clove hitches.", "Ask for Dave.", "The they mistook a hitch for a knot.", "Dave's not here, man.", "I thought it was a slip knot at first, but it's been a while since I've tied a knot", "I just use a bowline for pretty much everything! Quality rope makes a bigger difference in un-tie-ability I find.", "I understood that reference.", "So for example the famous Meereenese Knot?", "The Meereenese knot is actually a hitch because it relies on GRRM finishing the books for its integrity.", "Watched it all the way through and when the shot is taken straight on halfway through the video you can see it's definitely not a clove hitch, he's just wrapping it around his hand", "Yes.", "brutal", "That is the least easy to remember phrase I have ever heard", "Sounds like something Bill would say.", "Not from climbing, but ultralight and wildernessbackpacking. This is probably fine if whatever you're tying it to is constantly under tension, but if it's tensioning then releasing a lot, like in climbing, it looks like it'll come apart eventually", "You forgot step 1: buy good rope", "will this work for BDSM", "Thanks for making that clear, I would like to hear more about panic knots though they sound interesting", "The bowline hitch, tautline hitch, and trucker's hitch cover bout 99.999% of the knot-tying needs I encounter. \n\nAnd yes, I realize that not one of those is truly a knot, though the trucker's hitch does require a bight.", "Too much elasticity and a spongy core will make pretty much anything difficult to untie.", "Whereas r/shibari will tell you that it'll kill someone else (self-constricting knots are a huge no-no).", "Got it. If it’s Knot Bill tying it, it’s definitely a knot. If it’s not Mitch tying it, it could be Bill or it could be Knot Bill tying it, but it’s likely not a hitch. If Mitch is not tying a knot, it’s most likely a hitch, but if it’s Knot Mitch tying it, its most definitely it’s not a hitch, but a rather a knot. And if it was Knot Mitch who’s tying it, it was definitely not Bill who tied it, although Knot Bill would have tied something similar. Not?", "I would really recommend learning knots properly before using any for BDSM. Especially how to use them safely on the body. Knots that self-tighten can be very dangerous if used on the wrong places.", "This actually made me go look for a piece of rope. It looked simple enough that even I could do! Not sure when I’d ever use it though… maybe I should take up quad biking next and use my freshly learnt knot making skills to anchor them like shown in the video.", "I love videos like this.", "Tail should 100% be longer than that.", "Scott", "So the only true knot is that thing that my wired headphones do when they sit in my pocket for 5 minutes?", "The definition of knots in math is simply different from the usual definition of knots.", "I use this knot to secure gear to my Flextrek 3700 WhipSnake ultralight backpack and it works like a charm, even in the toughest of conditions.", "wwwwhipsnake", "It looks like it would cut off circulation.", "> If you're ever in a situation where you need a knot and you don't know exactly which knot to use...\n\nIf that situation for you is when you're climbing then I think you have bigger problems.", "Keep it old school and go with the [Magnum package.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1nM6wfjuirE)", "It's for when you panic when people are watching you and you can't remember how to tie a knot", "Take my upvote for that reference good sir...", "I think it does have its own integrity, but it serves best as a hitch.\n\nIt loops around itself and can tighten all the way. Why you would use it as a knot, though, I don't know.", "Reminds me of death stranding. \\scrolls to first comment, which is about death stranding\\ Eyyyy....", "A bow tie knot has been shown to be just as strong as some of the supposedly strongest knots known.", "I call this the \"if you can't tie a knot, tie a lot\" knot. \n\n\nEdit: learn to tie a bowline. It'll untie easier, you'll know it's more secure, and it won't cinch up on you when you need it to not cinch up on you. And it's not that hard to learn.", "Depends. Not on anything living, but fine for a bedpost.", "Those are some nice string", "'Do a sheepshank'", "Devastate the environment!", "\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMxcAaR0oHU", "Can I use a snake instead ?", "Tying knots is a skill you never think you'll use but then at some point in your life it's gonna come up and you're either gonna look like an idiot for having no idea how to tie a basic knot that doesn't involve your shoelaces, or you're gonna look like some macgyver wilderness mastermind for being able to tie a knot.\n\nThere's basically no in-between.", "I didn't realize it was a specific term, I assumed he just meant \"If you need a knot real quick and can't remember anything, eg you're panicking to get something tied down, this knot is simple, easy to remember and will work in most situations\"", "Arborist here. Bowline and bowline on a bite are everyday knots.", "as a sailor, why have I never heard of this?", "Climbing ropes are highly elastic, yet the (double) bowline is used specifically to make your harness tie-in easier to untie.", "The squirrel comes out of the hole, goes around the tree and back into the hole.", "Because presumably you can tie a bowline.", "I don't know what to make of this, but then again I'm no Steve Climber.", "Looks similar to two half hitches to me.", "Danger rope is still a rope", "I used the running bowline when I cut down the tree in my yard. I think I used a bowline a couple times, but mostly the running bowline. The tree was like 40 or 50 feet tall and between 2 houses. I'm not an arborist so I had to cut from the ground but make sure the branches fell in controlled manner.", "Get out", "“Don’t know a knot? Tie a lot.” This is said by many professionals, so don’t feel bad if you don’t know all your knots.", "This.", "Because you know real knots?", "Not on anything living, not a problem.", "Harder daddy", "I blame ratchet straps", "It's a lot easier if you just remember the handy acronym:\n\nIIROAOFIITAHM!\n\nIIHIOIWAOSAABSOARTAKB!", "Yeah a running bowline is how every grown worker sets a rigging line.", "I almost exclusively use tautline hitches for everything. There are very few situations where it doesn’t get the job done for me", "Came here to say the same thing. Bowline is pretty easy to tie. Whatever that knot is could come undone as well. Also you can tie a bowline with just one hand extremely fast", "I believe old school rock climbers used bowline for this reason but now reccomended knot is a figure 8 due to the strength of the knot", "It's a very non-rhymey rhyme structure, too", "So if I am remembering it right the phrase is.\n\nIf it relies on another object for its integrity, that's a knot, Bill.\n\nIf it has its own integrity without another object such as a bar, rope or stick, that's a hitch, Mitch.\n\nWas that right? Sounds right.", "Maybe harder, but the only knot I know is the butterfly or alpine butterfly or figure 8 knot. \n\nVery simple (I wont try to explain, look it up)\n\nI have yet to need it. But Im ready.", "Yeah honestly, if you don't have enough experience tying climbing knots you should just go ahead and free climb it. At least then the rope won't slow you down before it breaks so you don't have to limp out of there.", "bunch of knot dorks in this thread", "I don't know about you all, but I could've used 450 more examples of items to use this knot on. The video seemed too short.", "Interesting perspective. I use a clove hitch frequently while climbing and it's generally preferred partly because it's easy to adjust and undo.", "Thank you for the biggest laugh in a long time.", "I climb and don't really see the usefulness of this hitch. There are a number of other knots and hitches that are more commonly used for a variety of reasons. The clove hitch, for example, is superior because it is easily adjustable, can be tied one-handed, and can be created with the rope you're attached to without needing access to the end of the rope (in this, the most common scenario you are hitching to a carabiner or quickdraw). When you're hitching to a rope for a safe rappel, rope ascending, or a rescue, the commonly used hitches are the prusik, autoblock, and klemheist, and you would never use a hitch like the one in OP's video. Some knots, like the figure 8 follow through are not only chosen because of their strength but also the ease with which they can be evaluated or visually inspected. Other knots are needed to join rope, cordelette, or webbing, such as the waterknot or double fishermans. These are specific to the type of material being used. Again, a panic hitch wouldn't do anything. In fact, the only time I could see it being of any use is when setting up an anchor or top rope from a tree, but again there are so many other perfectly good options that there isn't a need for this knot.", "The figure 8 follow-through is standard, yes, but strength isn't really the issue (ropes and other pieces of climbing gear are much, much stronger than required to catch a falling body, even with knots reducing strength). A figure 8 is much easier to visually check than a double bowline, so mistied knots are easier to catch. There are many redundancies in climbing safety systems but there is no redundancy at all in the rope; if the knot fails you die, and it's much more likely to fail due to a knot-tying error than tensile failure at the knot.\n\nThere have been several high-profile accidents and even deaths involving famous climbers who fell with a mistied knot, and in every case it was a double bowline.", "So what’s the Ashley number for this knot - anyone know?", "Hahaha I’ve never seen this, and it’s from 2008?? That was like early YouTube when there were only 10 funny videos to go around.\n\nThank you so much for linking this", "If you have a open post end, i'd go with a [constrictor knot](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RQyVKfOow). Easier to tie, and you don't need a free end of the rope.", "Shit I must have had my sound off", "There were any examples of using this knot with direct upward or downward pressure, does that mean it's not suitable for those uses?\n\nSeems like these were all horizontal, like pulling something. What about an action like pulling a heavy object up from a well?", "this is basically a half hitch- no?", "Yep Eagle Scout here and learned so many knots but the two I still use more than any are Bowline and Taught Line Hitch by a country mile.\n\nBowline for a fixed loop that won't slip, TLH for an adjustable loop that (probably) won't slip.", "That is a really good point... found this article https://www.climbing.com/skills/tying-in-the-bowline-vs-the-figure-8-knot/ I guess a bunch of climbers still use it today which I didn't know. The knot would still be the weakest point in the rope system unless it's hitting a sharp rock or something. yeah chances of a properly done knot failing are slim", "Small nit pick, [free climbing is done with a rope](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_climbing), and free solo climbing is done without one.", "All hitches are knots, but not all knots are hitches. \n\nIn anycase, the bowline is not a hitch as it stands on its own.", "Is there a knot that is like the end all, be all? An untieable knot?", "You're right, the clove is very easy to untie or adjust when there is not ension. \n\nI guess the parent's statement is true if you take \"difficult to undo once tensioned\" as \"difficult to undo while tensioned\"", "That won't change anything on the forces on the knot.", "Constrictor is an absolute bitch to remove after it has been tensioned though. It's one of the main points of the constrictor, it will not come undone. \n\nAnd it's not super easy to tie on a closed-off anchor, like a ring.", "A clove hitch is great but it isn't easy to tie it to a closed loop of material like the axel at the end of the video. Auto locks, kleimheists, and prussicks require a closed loop of material of for you to tie some other knots in a shot length of loop.", "Hitch together, knot alone!", "One of my biggest fears", "Otherwise it's knot!", "Lmfao", "There’s no way I’m gonna be able to remember all of that.", "I'm starting to wonder if the people replying to this not understanding the joke are just that stupid, or whether I'm stupid for not realizing they're trying to add onto the joke themselves.", "👍🏻", "Thanks", "I suspect the size of our rope differs pretty significantly! I use it to tie wire bundles on aircraft, hah. I used to use it on boom lifts with rope, and in those applications I absolutely agree that it's easy to adjust!", "Look, all I wanna know is when you sign up the first baseman, how does he sign his name?", "Thanks dad.", "We would race each other tying bowlines around ourselves in Boy Scouts, one guys was lightning quick", "Also the important parts aren't the rhyming part.\n\nActually, the only rhyme is \"hitch mitch\".", "It's 1am and I'm watching a guy tie knots.", "Hmmm brb, I think my wife is about to wash my french wedge. Can't have that now can we", "Thanks for letting us know, but how do you tie a bowline?", "The only thing I would add to that list the truckers hitch (which is like a combination of a few knots, not taught in scouts, but super useful) and maybe the sheet bend", "Agree, everything else is just showing off haha. Cleats and coils are handy too. whipping and lashing once in a blue moon.\n\nI think the midshipman's hitch is a little better than the TLH. It is practically the same but when you are wrapping the working end around the standing end, you make the second wrap back over the first. this sort of locks it while you are tying and grips a little better. It can collapse into the TLH if you don't maintain tension in the right way while tying it. You can also play around with more wraps on the grippy side with either knot for better grip.", "Spend 5 minutes learning a bowline and you don't need this. Then as a bonus, spend another 10 minutes to learn to do the bowline onehanded.", "I have never been the center of attention having people looking to me to tie a knot.", "This was knot what I was expecting. Bloke was quite calm actually.", "Or how about I just never remember this and get on with my life", "it was a helpful video, knot gonna lie.", "Actually, the line is from a video that came out a decade before Death Stranding did.", "Knot bad!", "Ask the second mate", "I think the point of the video is that it is easy to remember for the layman. For the odd incident where you need one. \n\nIf you are doing things where you would repeatedly need a hitch - or where it is vital for your security - then yeah, you should probably learn which is actually best. Not just easy to remember.", "I just go with the figure 8. Yes, it can be a pain to untighten, but it's so incredibly hard to fuck up when tying. Even if you do it wrong, odds are you still have a very strong knot.", "Also, a mistied figure 8 is often still a very strong knot.", "Who!", "Yosemite finish on a figure 8 makes it easier to untie after a fall", "but Steve Climber is", "Using a ball hitch as an anchor point is asking for a ball hitch shaped projectile coming back at you. If you ever NEED to use a hitch as an achor, pull the bar out and use only the pin to connect the rope.", "I think you need a hat first.", "The classic Sheepshank with Tension.\n\nStarring Tying Ribbons.", "One, two, three - one, two.\nOne, two, three (main line loop) - one, two (tail end)", "YOU’RE NO STEVE CLIMBER!", "I agree but I also want to add that the waterknot unties itself and fails, if it is loaded and unloaded repeatedly. Best is to not use it at all and only use cordelettes or sewn slings. More information can be found here at the bottom: https://www.animatedknots.com/water-knot", "Old school rock climber here. I always used a figure of 8 for clipping into the harness, and a bowline for either: tying to a tree; or tying the rope around (my or another's) waist.\n\nThe essential reason for using a figure of 8 for the harness: a bowline would be more likely to undo itself without tension from the sides of the rope leading to knot (tension which exists when the sides come in from a waist or tree).", "The name suits very well, I might be stupid but it doesn't look safe to me, it just looks loose.\n\nI know I might be wrong but it is just a feeling I have looking at it xD", "fucking dad he bullied me for this all the time cause I was so slow everytime he yelled at me I got in panic btw he never showed me how to know a sail", "100% this. Also, the water knot can easily unties itself if an object is pressed into/against the knot, such as a stick or rock, and as demonstrated in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXe-8GmS08k \nKnot good!", "Edit: tow balls are extremely dangerous to tow vehicles with using a toe strap. I'm an idiot for doubting the above commenter. Here is a video that goes into more detail about it:\n\nhttps://youtu.be/eFD4Fd03bq8\n\nOriginal comment:\nYea, I don't think this is good advice. That pin isn't designed to be pulled from the center, it is designed to block the shearing force between the hitch and mount. The ball hitch is the best place to attach a tow strap if you need to.", "Hitches are a subcategory of knots according to Wikipedia, and just about every other source I could find. Thus, this would still be considered a knot.", "Sure, you'll bend (and possibly break the pin). However, you won't kill someone. Read up on line snapback and check out this video about the 4:40 mark.\n\n[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFD4Fd03bq8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFD4Fd03bq8)\n\nThey make hitch attachments that have a d-ring for strap attachment or use a frame mounted attachment point.", "Takes less time to tie a bowline knot and that won't undue without tension. That knot will also undo after load.", "Flextrek 3700? I've only heard of the Flextrek 37,000,000,000,000 WhipSnake edition!", "When doing my Advanced Open Water diver course, trying to tie knots, I noticed that my intelligence dropped to a fraction as soon as I went few meters below the surface. I failed so many times for reasons I couldn't make any sense of at the time.\n\nThis panic knot/hitch might help.\n\nOr maybe I'll just mess it up too.", "I've always been told NEVER to tow off a ball hitch. Spend the time and money to go get a shackle hitch.", "First of all, not a knot, it's a hitch because it's being tied to something. That aside it's a poor variation of anchor hitch which is designed not to untie itself. However with anchor hitch only one loop goes through initial two, not both of them. This is done so that loop can be tightened properly. Not sure what he's gaining by pulling two loops other than ease of untying.\n\nMy advice is, go take a look at https://animatedknots.com which has far better selection of knots and hitches, all properly animated and explained.", "Looked it up. If you've done it a lot then I'd agree but \"pick it up do first time\" i give it to this one. Plus the mechanics on this one are easier to remember than the bowline, \"two wraps then two wraps\", super easy for \"just need a knot right now\". I don't think this guy made this video for climbers or sailors.", ">learn\n\n...and there's the issue", "I find myself using the [Alpine Loop](https://www.101knots.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Butterfly-Knot.jpg) a shocking amount.", "Yea, you're absolutely right, I had done it before and didn't want to be wrong but after looking it up, it actually kills a a fair number of people. I edited my comment to reflect this.", "I haven’t had to pass basic seamanship in a long time. You didn’t say how short you wanted it; how’s that?", "Follow Me Boys", "Saved the video for future ref.", "In practical applications, such as rock climbing and high-angle rescue, we make the distinction. Nobody says “I will now secure my prusik hitch subcategory of knot to this rope and ascend it”.", "since no one else is asking, it’s a riff on the Flanders Cider Rhyme, but worse.", "I prefer this one:\n\n> If it has its own integrity without another object such as a bar, stick, or another rope, you did not hitch her. It's not true. It's bullshit. You did a knoooooooooooooot. Oh hi, Mark.", "I hear you. But you'd be shocked at how easy it is if you give yourself a little practice, and it's a total game-changer cuz it can do almost anything you need a knot to do, far more than this knot can.", "> r/shibari\n\nwow ok NSFW, lol.", "Oops. Forgot that might not be self-evident.", "Apologies, I use it much more than my Black Geyser, so the tag must have faded in the sun.", "It really whips the snakes ass", "Interesting, i thought the waterknot was the recommended knot for joining two strands of tubular nylon. What knot would you recommend for this or is it just a no no?", "I WISH I STILL HAD MY FREE AWARD MY FRIEND. THIS IS AWESOME!!", "There's a difference between making a troll comment and trying to come across as serious (such as the comic you linked -- which I have used before against other people) and making an obviously silly joke that some people will find funny.\n\nYou just didn't catch that it was a joke. That's all this is.", "Actually, the whole thing was a joke from the start and you whooshed.", "You should read back where I said I can't always tell the difference between dumb jokes and dumb comments, and don't care whether he thought it's silly and funny. You don't have a new point, you have a dumb comment and you're a dumb joke.", "It's weird that you're lashing out so much, especially since you seemingly didn't understand the first line of my response. Be better than that, nefastus.", "This isn't anything against you, because you clearly aren't the person that invented those terms.\n\nBut what absolute and stupid wording for two very similar things.", "Blocked for calling criticizing your dumb comments \"lashing out\". No need to talk to someone that fragile.", "There's historical reasons why this is the way it is.\n\nInitially all climbing was what we now call aid climbing, meaning you use the rope and tools to help.\n\nThen came a new way of climbing, in which one uses only his body as a mean to scale rock. The rope is still there, but only as a safety device. A term was needed to differentiate both styles, so this is how the names \"aid climbing\" and \"free climbing\" came to be.\n\nEventually some people started going without any rope at all. It's still free climbing, as you're not using any equipment to haul yourself, and since this is done alone while most other forms of climbing are done in pairs, it was called free solo climbing.\n\nThe names are slightly confusing to the uninitiated, but I wouldn't say they're stupid. Anyway, there's no changing them now.", "Nobody goes up to a whiteboard and says, \"I'm going to draw a circle, subcategory of shape,\" either. They just say, \"I'm going to draw a circle.\" That doesn't mean a circle isn't a shape.\n\nA hitch can both be a knot, and called a hitch without further qualification. However, saying, \"That's not a knot, that's a hitch!\" is just factually incorrect.", "I didn't say I was offended by it, just stating that you are lashing out lol.", "It's called the constrictor knot.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrictor_knot", "[Constrictor knot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrictor_knot)* \n \n >The constrictor knot is one of the most effective binding knots. Simple and secure, it is a harsh knot that can be difficult or impossible to untie once tightened. It is made similarly to a clove hitch but with one end passed under the other, forming an overhand knot under a riding turn. The double constrictor knot is an even more robust variation that features two riding turns.\n \n^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( \| )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( \| )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/about/banned)^( \| )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove \| v1.5)", "THAT’S WHAT I’M ASKIN’!!", "small nit pick, i would think that initially, like before inventing rope, climbing was JUST CLIMBING.", "They referred to that as falling.", "I'm knot sure what kind of situation someone who doesn't know their knots would be in where this would be handy. There are faster ways to tie a clove hitch that don't involve binding up your own hand.", "Ask the squirrel while it's going around the tree.", "Yeah it kind of is, at least i think in the US it is still used pretty often. But in Europe where I am residing, tubular nylon is not used at all in climbing (or anymore, do not know about that). Maybe it was retired because of the issues that exist with the waterknot.\n\nAs mentioned above my recommendation is to use slings that are already swen to a loop when you buy them. They come in various length and materials. I mostly use those to build anchors when climbing. To connect anchors for rapelling I use cordelette with double fishermans, as it is pretty cheap and can be left behind (and has less breaking strength but enough for rapelling).\n\nEdit: The links above also both mention a few alternatives: When you want to use the waterknot it states: \"Use long tails and tie an Overhand Knot in the tail of the Outer Strap\". Or in the both the link and the video two over hand knots are recommended as alternative, but many people in the video comments say that it is not safe, but I do not know if this is backed up by any evidence.\n\nTrying out new things can be risky as well so if you want to stick to what you are used to then maybe just use the waterknot with long tails and an additional overhand knot? Not sure though, better do your own research, ask a certified moutaineering guide, attend some multipitch educational course. Whatever it needs to be sure what you are doing.", "Wow this little thread is a train wreck.\n\nThe original comment was quite clearly a joke. It's OK if you missed it, chalk it up as a little embarrassing. No need to rip into anyone. <3\n\nIt'll be easier to step back more gracefully next time. Less stress.", "Blocked for reading the whole comment thread and commenting without having a new point that I haven't responded to.", "I haven't used tubular nylon in years as I rarely set up a top rope that isn't relying on a fixed anchor or a trad anchor or a natural anchor on a multipitch route in which case I don't bring tubular nylon with me. \n\nA number of years back a certified instructor recommended the tubular nylon in the absence of a static line when setting up a top rope from a tree that was set back from the cliff. He recommended the waterknot to make a loop or join two strands. If I do end up using the nylon at some point (however unlikely) , I will make sure to do my research first!", "That’s the worst rhyme ever", "hey thanks", "A hitch can rely on its own rope too? For example rolling hitch", "yes. Maybe I’ll rewrite the rhyme", "This is a really high quality tutorial vid. Simple introduction, good explanation during the demo, and all follow-up demos are both relevant and have no fat whatsoever." ]	199	videos	The panic knot
https://youtu.be/1iDpiEsU0kc	/r/videos/comments/revah5/my_greatest_hit/	[ "Reddit people don’t like this hit song and video of mine. Tough crowd", "i like it a lot", "It’s my favorite ever. I’ve made a lot of “hits”, and this was one such year where I’d just roll out of bed and put together composing tracks on the fly. I did this in bed on the computer in fact!!!\n\nThis song is from 2018" ]	3	videos	My greatest hit
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/revrfj/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/revrfj/deleted_by_user/	[ "What a fucking psycho. Glad he got arrested.", "Wtf is wrong with people. Fuckin hope he dies.", "Why the hell would anyone of sound mind want to see something like this? This isn't a snuff site", "i hope the other prisoners see this video.", "yo, i need to read that article myself. you gotta link?! holy shit fuck that guy", "The video got removed but it showed some crusty long haired guy walking up behind a 2 year old sleeping on a couch, and just punches him right on the top of his head and creeps away before the kid can figure out what happened as he's crying in pain and confusion. I looked for another version of it but can't find it.", "Noo i saw the video, never wanna see it again. You said he got arrested. I wanna read up on that", "It happened in Cumberland MD" ]	8	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/hD95C9fy5QU	/r/videos/comments/revt7e/onewheel_pov_ride_down_california_mountain/	[ "Mountains are not for me", "Is the video sped up? The jogger at around 1:46 looks like their body movements are too fast.", "[ Jump to 01:46 @ FPV 4K MURPHY'S RANCH TRAIL \| ONEWHEEL ASMR](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD95C9fy5QU&t=0h1m46s)\n \n ^(Channel Name: Sounds to Sleep to, Video Popularity: 100.00%, Video Length: [06:04])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@01:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD95C9fy5QU&t=0h1m41s) \n \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n \n ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^\| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)", "I own a OW and I’m pretty confident this video has been sped up. No way he’s going this fast without it kicking back on him.", "That's gotta be sped up, right??" ]	5	videos	OneWheel POV Ride Down California Mountain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lim1jByb4KY	/r/videos/comments/rewg56/blasts/	[ "Never thought about how much I hate the fact that \"sts\" at the end of a word is essentially two syllables on its own.", "Haha yeah like \"ks th\" at the end of \"sixth\"", "sixths" ]	3	videos	blasts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SumDHcnCRuU	/r/videos/comments/rewif1/which_planet_is_the_closest/	[ "Depends on their relationship", "Earth", "is the sun exactly as mostly close?", "I didn’t watch this video… however…\n\n-\tVenus has the closest orbit to Earth, which is why it’s refers to our nearest neighbour\n-\tBecause Mercury has the smallest and fastest orbit, it actually spends the most time closest to Earth\n\nIs that a good summary of this video I didn’t watch?", "It goes a bit further, but yes - it starts by dealing with \"what do we mean by 'the closest planet'?\" and then mentions concentric circles a bit.", "Yes, it would be mostly closer than Mercury.", "It also explains that Mercury is also on average closer to each other planet in the solar system than any other planet, which did kind of blow my mind a bit.", "Air", "CGP grey makes great vids", "Yes but it's a star, not a planet.", "The video is like 3 minutes long. Why not watch it instead of wasting other people's time asking if your assumptions are correct?", "How else will we know they're very smart?", "Fire", "Water", "Multipass", "Wow, they spelled Garfield really wrong.", "Didnt answer the question which one in the end comes closest to earth at some point.", "Surely nobody thinks the planets are consistently distanced in a line...", "That part was answered at the beginning, Venus gets closest to Earth at any one point (every year and a half).\n\nMars doesn't get as close to Earth as Venus (shown on the graph on the right).", "but whats Mercury's mostest closest? i assume its just Venus", "Seeing as flat earthers are a thing, it's a surefire bet someone out there believes it or is willing to believe it after a Youtube video or two.", "The planet named for the messenger god is the closest to each? Disgusting poetic." ]	22	videos	Which planet is the closest?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nHnQQhWQVA	/r/videos/comments/rewj53/when_ads_go_wrong/	[ "I wish I was in an Ad that went wrong", "You already are, man. You already are!", "@1:00 is freakin perfect!", "I have seen this ad many times over the years. Still the absolute funniest thing I have ever seen.", "Maybe this should be x-posted to /r/AntiWork", "The little \"damn it\" arm shake @00:41 is fucking perfect. I couldn't stop giggling after that." ]	6	videos	When Ads Go Wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6UVOQ0F44	/r/videos/comments/rewpfh/machine_learning_mario/	[ "So this is what sethbling has been up to? That's awesome. Used to watch him as a kid.\nEdit: This video is 6 years old.", "His latest thing was creating an [escape room segment](https://youtu.be/_IM2pxrJQbs) for the Mindcrack marathon. It was pretty awesome!", "Its a trial and error machine guys. Don't let the fucking bullshit fancy words fool you. Its trial and error. The routes that go the furthest get selected. Its that fucking simple. Fuck this pretentious, pseudoscience bullshit talk and don't let it gatekeep you from thinking you can understand it. \"Machine learning hur dur\" god damn I hate scientific culture.", "That's a vast oversimplification of a video that is already doing quite a bit of oversimplification of the math going on under the hood.\n\nIn theory you can boil all machine learning down to a \"trial and error machine\" if you want, as it is by nature an iterative process, but to then say it's \"that fucking simple\" after you've simplified it is disingenuous.\n\nAlso I don't think you know what psuedoscience is if you think think that describes this video in any way.", "And a PC is just a simple calculator of ones and zeroes.", "What exactly do you think machine learning is?", "Not impressed, when it beats TMNT on the NES let me know.", "This is somewhat true: in reinforcement learning the system learns by exploration (i.e. learn what the consequences of it's possible actions are). It needs to try some stuff to see if it works or not. \n\nHowever, during the learning process is not about \"randomly\" trying something and then pick the best program. The intelligence comes from taking an actor (in this case a mario player bot) and intelligently tweaking it slightly so it performs better. \n\n[From the wikipedia article about this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_learning): \"Reinforcement learning requires clever exploration mechanisms; randomly selecting actions, without reference to an estimated probability distribution, shows poor performance.\"", "Desktop version of /u/Drugbird's link: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_learning>\n\n --- \n\n ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)", "Thanks, bot!", "To take something so fucking simple and over explaining it is the disingenuous part. The fucking pretentiousness. This was the kind of shit that pissed Einstein off.", "Uninspired.", "It's not the _routes_ that get selected. It's the _actors_. The ones who get furthest \"win\" and are used to \"breed\" the next generation of actors. This is not some iterative pathfinding algorithm. If the learning process is done correctly, these actors eventually become good enough to perform well in other levels that they've never seen before. That is machine learning.", "Its the same thing, the only difference is where the route is located. Internally or externally.", "The fact that the video creator was able to boil down [1200 lines of lua](https://gist.github.com/d12frosted/7471e2123f10485d96bb) and likely days of work in to a 6 minute video, where after watching it you feel like such an expert that you can claim it's simple and overexplained is such a perfect example of dunning-kruger. If anything, the fact you believe you understand the content so well to make a claim like that is just a testament to the video creator's ability to convey complicated information in a digestible way.\n\nJust because the video uses terminology you aren't familiar with doesn't mean it's overexplained, but rather that you simply aren't the target audience. I promise you, speaking as an ML engineer, reading a research paper and implementing something like this from scratch is anything but simple.", "No. If the neural network completely remembers the exact route, then it is overfitted. It is supposed to generalize, which implies that it doesn't remember the exact route. If it fits itself to match the exact training route, it won't be able to handle new, unknown routes. That's the whole point of machine learning - train the network with a training route so that it can handle unknown routes. This is why I say that it is a pity the video doesn't show behavior with different levels that are unfamiliar to the actors.", "yes, the route is internal, instead of external.", "No ...the route is nowhere. Not internally, not externally. The actors learn general characteristics of levels, not routes.\n\nSeriously, don't talk shit about machine learning if you don't even know the basics.", "yes, it's a route. Not as in directions on a road, but of actions... if you can't understand it simply you can't understand it at all. This is what I'm talking about..What the fuck do you think its learning? Its trial and error of what to do where and when. It literally just throws as much data at a wall and then picks the set that worked properly, and then its repeated. In this particular case the route that is selected is an eternal one, instead of an external one (a specific map or course) It's that simple. They taught you this when you were learning fractions. You simplify it. You don't need go on a tangent about what trial and error is to the nth degree, you lose the fucking point. If I'm teaching a class to paint I don't go into the fucking history of what paint is, and what pigment is, and how it works, there is already a fucking word for it to simplify it, its the fucking word \"paint\"", "\"if you can't understand it simply you can't understand it at all\"\n\nAh, yes. The \"it must be simple\" fallacy. No, not everything is simple. Reminds me of people who have \"simple\" solutions for everything (which of course are all wrong).\n\nYou are so far off the mark. You do not understand what I mean by generalization. You still stick to those routes even though this fundamentally makes zero sense. You try to simplify something that is not as simple as you want it to be.\n\nEither you are a troll, or you stubbornly cling to your routes, or have some weird grudge against machine learning and are determined to show the world that it is simple. That, together with your weird rant about \"scientific culture\" (those damn scientists huh) shows me that this is a waste of time." ]	20	videos	Machine Learning Mario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPXaoamLato	/r/videos/comments/rewqs4/a_record_setting_bench_press/	[ "But can he press a bench is the question", "Well that looked horrible", "Tldw: he didn’t do it", "I read that as French press.", "Nice little half reps on the warm-up. Hoping that’s not what he considers a full rep", "I doubt he did 700lbs like he claims.", "That didn't even look close. Nice we have a video of his utter failure.", "Form: 0\n\nLift: 0\n\nAint no one in the world gonna give this wanker credit for these 'lifts'.", "I'm not sure which was more let down - me after watching this video or those weights onto his chest." ]	9	videos	A Record Setting Bench Press
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSM3x9G7eTQ	/r/videos/comments/rewtze/drunk_pigeon_commentary/	[ "His crack ups crack me up. I like to think this took him 30 takes before he got it all the way through without losing it.", "Every time I watch this, his breaking character laugh always gets me.", "shake it off", "Same here. I can't help but giggle every time I get to that part.", "Sounds like the limbic system from Disco Elysium" ]	5	videos	Drunk Pigeon Commentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Gotl9vRGs	/r/videos/comments/rey4qn/ten_dimensions_explained/	[ "That made sense, which I assume means it’s massively simplified to the point of being basically false. Lol.", "I think it's more useful to think about dimensions collapsing than bending.", ">Oh god, not this video again. Whats shown in this video doesn't really have any basis in reality.", "Hey now that’s not fair. Back to the future was a great franchise.", "pop science in a nutshell", "got a better one?", "seems like... no point in discussing this stuff if you havent taken higher math and physics", "Yeah… [here’s a better](https://youtu.be/jhpKUapI3cY) explanation imo", "I lack the intellect and research to give you an answer to that question. What I do know is that this video is around 15 years old. Made by Rob Bryanton who is no scientist, to sell [his book](https://www.amazon.com/Start-Point-but-whats-point/dp/B08C8R9QBT/). \"His\" theory of the ten dimensions has its origin in [Superstring Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstring_theory#Extra_dimensions), if you want to visualize a better representation of a +3 dimension shape I would point you to [Tesseracts](https://syntagmatic.github.io/hypercube/rotate/) and [Calabi-Yau manifolds](https://analyticphysics.com/Higher%20Dimensions/Visualizing%20Calabi-Yau%20Manifolds.htm).\n\nThis video is garbage. Check out [PBS space time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6TWO-ESC6A) if you want that to know more. If you want to do your own research you can start [here](https://physicstravelguide.com/theories/speculative_theories/string_theory).", "Make like a tree and get outta here.", "thanks for the info.", "dont believe everything you read huh", "Yup. 530am. Time to go back to sleep." ]	13	videos	Ten Dimensions Explained
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/reyivk/deleted_by_user/	/r/videos/comments/reyivk/deleted_by_user/	[ "Just tonight I gave it a chance. So bad. Nothing is funny about it. It pushes Santa as a racist asshole who hates women and makes an elf look like a complete cunt trying to take over the whole thing.\n\nIt has nothing to do with any of what Rogen wants to blame on the hate. It is not funny, it is not entertaining, and it attacks Santa Claus for being white. The elf is blue, BLUE, so what the fuck does that represent?\n\nShit show sold on the names involved and they can't handle that it is simply not funny. It is Sausage Party x3.\n\nRogen needs to get rid of the yes men around him and find some real writers who will tell him when his jokes are shit.", "Yea, the entire premise is just really bad. Even the trailer is openly racist with the negative connotation that \"Santa has always been a white guy.\" As if that is a horrible thing. Almost as if cultures and societies create beings and stories which revolve around the culture creating it. \n\nIt's really just an additive that Rogen and Silverman have not been funny for at least a decade now. Even with a shit premise, this show could have at least been funny if given better writers.", "I watched it last night as well.\n\nSanta was seriously considering the Sara Silverman elf to be the next Santa based on her merits, but changed his mind last minute when he witnessed her being awkward around kids.\n\nThe show did portray the current Santa as crooked, but not racist.\n\nDid we watch the same show?" ]	3	videos	[deleted by user]
https://youtu.be/fQVhppRP4Wo	/r/videos/comments/reykym/there_are_foxes_that_say_hehehehe/	[ "[Obligatory.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE&ab_channel=discoveryplusNorge)", "It gradually turns into human child laughter.", "Lovely & Funny", "So this is adorable... In the daylight.\n\nI can't shake the idea of hearing this while walking through the woods at night, and how terrifying it would be. And then seeing those little guys slinking around on the ground out of the corner of your eye.." ]	4	videos	There are foxes that say hehehehe
https://youtu.be/-OYvqbRu8VY	/r/videos/comments/rez10p/twitter_moment/	[ "That’s why my dog doesn’t hibernate, because of capitalism.", "Dracula was a globalist elite!", "yeah who posts jokes and shitposts on twitter", ">Dracula was a globalist elite!\n\nHe couldn't be a globalist because he had a very Draconian policy on dealing with illegal immigrants." ]	4	videos	twitter moment.
https://youtu.be/Fc1P-AEaEp8	/r/videos/comments/rf04qx/why_are_people_so_afraid_of_technology/	[ "Did not expect that", "Gottem.", "That is almost as scary as [catching 'psychics' off-guard](https://streamable.com/6y2d).", "Lmaaao!" ]	4	videos	Why are people so afraid of technology?
https://youtu.be/lLH1aAczPEM	/r/videos/comments/rf08gv/when_dance_shows_were_a_thing_in_the_90s/	[ "Shieeeet i remember this….", "The Grind!", " remember [American Bandstand](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0xeC7YT4ts&ab_channel=ABdancers)? started all the way back into the 50's. [Dick Clark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Clark) was the first host and i believe this was his TV start.", "Soul train?", "elkectric circus was what i watched every friday. i liked that kind of music.", "Believe it or not, there was actually good electronic music back then, but you had to know people who could steer you in the right direction or dig deep in the usenet threads for advice. For instance Goldie had the pivotal \"Timeless\" track in 1995 and other singles and EP prior (e.g. Metalheads & Dark Rider). When you listen to Timeless, if you haven't before, do yourself a favor and listen with headphones, realize he did all that without hardly any computer assistance (in terms of sound modulation/creation, though maybe some he did some editing on an Apple via Logic Pro, like Trent Reznor did back then). There's some crazy synth bass that drops around the 5 min mark that at the time I had never anything of it's like before and it still gives me goosebumps to this day. I'd love just 10 or 15 mins with Clifford Price to find out what that whole experience was like, breaking open a whole new genre of musical style with his creative strokes.\n\n&#x200B;\n\nTimeless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usqwy2-E4SE", "Yeah, I was gonna say, dance shows were not just a 90's thing. They've been around basically since the dawn of television. 'Member Soul Train?", "Sooooooul train..", "In the UK we had Dance Energy with Normski: https://youtu.be/SC8S3q78yzo / https://youtu.be/HnC0RTgfL4A", "Haha - very cool to see this. 17 at the time (now 47), but still loved that period growing up in London.", "I want to throw Solid Gold out there too. I know they had used in-house dancers but that shit was dope. Came on after Soul Train on weekend afternoons too.", "Electric Circus, recorded in Toronto.", "Electric Circus was good people watching.", "I remember being a kid and going to Canada's Wonderland and they had an Electric Circus at night.", "Electric circus was fantastic. I remember being pretty young watching it, dancing in front of the TV for my mom. If someone has a compilation of early-mid 90s commercials from Ontario I'd be at full nostalgia." ]	14	videos	When Dance shows were a thing in the 90s

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